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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Nol. They called

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Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our superproducer Paul

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Speaker 1: Mission controlled decades. Most importantly, you are you, You are here,

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Speaker 1: and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Paul,

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Speaker 1: can we get just a little bit of a creepy music,

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Speaker 1: some kind of ominous, maybe a little science e perfect.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with the stereotypical UFO story. A lone person

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Speaker 1: or a couple is in a remote rural part of

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Speaker 1: the world, usually at night, and they see something strange

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Speaker 1: in the sky. They may even experience a loss of time.

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Speaker 1: Uh their electronics may function in an anomalous way, and days, weeks, months,

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Speaker 1: or in some cases years later, they begin to recall

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Speaker 1: additional details of that experience, of that lost time, and

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Speaker 1: all too often they have no hard proof of what

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Speaker 1: they believe happened, other than, of course, the certitude that

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Speaker 1: something strange occurred. This is very similar to the Barney

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Speaker 1: and Betty Hill story that we covered very recently to

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Speaker 1: that that thing that you just described, that's exactly it

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Speaker 1: and and and wasn't that in fact kind of sort

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Speaker 1: of genesis of that trope, That story where you're talking

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Speaker 1: about the subject of the Strange Arrivals podcast really kind

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Speaker 1: of created so many of these repeating images that we

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Speaker 1: think of today, especially at least exactly in the US,

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Speaker 1: and because it originated in nineteen one, or at least

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Speaker 1: that's when the siding was said to have occurred. So

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Speaker 1: today's question is what does it mean when not a

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Speaker 1: single person or not a couple, but instead multiple people

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Speaker 1: appear to report the same experience, not just the same

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Speaker 1: emotive experience, not you know, not a hundred people saying

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Speaker 1: I was scared, but people say I saw something it

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Speaker 1: looked like this. What happens when their descriptions match and

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Speaker 1: their timeline matches up as well, We may be able

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Speaker 1: to find the answer to this question in of all places,

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Speaker 1: far western rural Massachusetts. Here are the facts. Yeah, unless

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Speaker 1: you live somewhere in Massachusetts or in the northeast United States,

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Speaker 1: you probably have never heard of Berkshire or Berkshire County.

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Speaker 1: Massive choose. It's it's on the far western side of

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Speaker 1: the state, and uh, it is very very far from

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Speaker 1: like a large city like Boston. It's it's kind of

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Speaker 1: in the in the sticks, shall we say, a bit

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Speaker 1: a bit a bit of the sticks. Beautiful part of

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Speaker 1: the sticks though to my understanding, Oh yeah, it's it's

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Speaker 1: incredible there. And this area Berkshire County, it's home to

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Speaker 1: a number of small towns. One of the most important

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Speaker 1: and prominent we're going to talk about today is Great Barrington.

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Speaker 1: And this is just just a side note here. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this is one of those names that is kind of

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Speaker 1: like a a little john name. I don't think you

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Speaker 1: should ever have Great in his city name because it's

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Speaker 1: it's like doing It's like uh doing improv and then

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Speaker 1: having one of your character attributes be funny, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. It sets expectations high. Uh. Barrington is

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Speaker 1: a great place in need, but it's not a great

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Speaker 1: place in terms of population. It's pretty small. And that's

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Speaker 1: again another trope that we see in a lot of

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Speaker 1: these narratives, you know, like this is uh, this county

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Speaker 1: or this what was a county is is one of

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Speaker 1: those places where most people in town know each other

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Speaker 1: or no of each other in these small towns. The

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Speaker 1: protagonists of our story that we're just about to meet

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Speaker 1: is is an outsider. His family. They're considered outsiders because

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Speaker 1: they don't have a long period of ancestry in these towns.

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Speaker 1: And that's something I'll be familiar to anybody from New England.

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Speaker 1: That kind of um, I would say, mild xenophobia. Not

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Speaker 1: only do they not have a long lineage of family

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Speaker 1: history in this part of the country that I believe

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Speaker 1: they had recently moved from New York City, so they

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Speaker 1: were almost like fish out of water type situations, you know,

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Speaker 1: have adapting to small town life exactly from Queens. Yes.

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Speaker 1: And and just to note here, Great Barrington has been

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Speaker 1: around for a long time as a town and as

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Speaker 1: of just to give you a sense of how small

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Speaker 1: it is, as of two thousand and ten, the Census

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Speaker 1: Bureau reported that there were just over seven thousand people

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Speaker 1: that lived in that town. And like many small towns

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Speaker 1: that are further away from metro areas, UH, this community

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem set for explosive population growth or anything. It's

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Speaker 1: been this way for a long time since about the

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Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds, when it was one of the I believe,

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Speaker 1: the original fourteen counties of Massachusetts. Anyway, fast forward hundreds

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Speaker 1: of years September one, nineteen sixty nine. There's a kid

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Speaker 1: named Tom Reid riding in a car late at night.

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Speaker 1: His mother is driving his grandma's riding shotgun, and his

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Speaker 1: other brother, Matt, is sitting in the back of the

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Speaker 1: car with him. These kids are probably a little bit

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Speaker 1: tired because it's late at night. They've just uh, they're

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Speaker 1: just heading home from their dying or which is called

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Speaker 1: Village on the Green. Their vehicle, a station wagon, is

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Speaker 1: crossing the Sheffield Bridge when something went wrong. And the

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Speaker 1: doubly fascinating about the story is that we have so

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Speaker 1: many um first hand accounts of of what of of

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Speaker 1: these encounters uh. And this is the one from Reed

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Speaker 1: himself as he told it in a recent episode of

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Speaker 1: the rebooted UH Unsolved Mysteries you can see on Netflix. UM.

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Speaker 1: I was giving my brother a fireball, a little fireball candy.

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Speaker 1: My grandmother turned around to see some lights coming up

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Speaker 1: what looked like from behind the bridge or trees. We

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Speaker 1: all looked at it because it was kind of a

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Speaker 1: self contained glow. It rose up a little bit. It

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Speaker 1: looked like it followed the dirt road, which I'm sure

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Speaker 1: it probably didn't, but it appeared that way because we

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Speaker 1: could see it through the trees. The lights started to

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Speaker 1: bleed through. Once we broke into a bit of a clearing,

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Speaker 1: we could see inside the car because it was dark,

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Speaker 1: so the light was flooding inside the car. Um. And

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Speaker 1: then that's when Reid remembers seeing what he described as

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Speaker 1: a white sphere, and his mother also recalls and described

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Speaker 1: it as a disc shaped object. Um and they estimated

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Speaker 1: it was about a hundred yards long, this thing that

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Speaker 1: they were seeing at least hundred yards and uh uh

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Speaker 1: just as so, uh a little bit of critical thinking there.

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Speaker 1: We do have to note that these are not trained

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Speaker 1: pilots or anything like that, not saying we don't believe

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Speaker 1: them or they're not giving a sincere estimate, but it

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Speaker 1: is it is difficult to estimate the true size of

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Speaker 1: something when you don't know the distance. Uh, and you

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Speaker 1: don't you don't know how far away you are, you

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Speaker 1: don't know how high up it is. The car lights

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Speaker 1: up with this, it's like the light envelopes and consumes

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Speaker 1: the car. And this doesn't feel like the typical light

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Speaker 1: you see shining on Matt Nolan myself. Right now, there's

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Speaker 1: something energetical, most palpable about it. And then the family

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Speaker 1: recalls an eerie silence followed by a crescendoing susceros, an

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Speaker 1: eruption of wildlife noises, cicada's crickets, so on, and right

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Speaker 1: as that happens, according to Tom's recollection, they see an

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Speaker 1: amber glow on both sides of the road and wake

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Speaker 1: up three hours later. Yeah, yeah, Read says, we'll go

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Speaker 1: back to Read's words here. He says, that was the

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Speaker 1: last thing we really remembered from the station wagon. It

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Speaker 1: came to a stop off the right side of the road.

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Speaker 1: Everything got really calm. It was like he says, being

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Speaker 1: in the middle of a hurricane. There was like a

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Speaker 1: barometric change in pressure. It was just a ed silence. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Then there was an eruption of crickets and frogs. It

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Speaker 1: got really loud, and that was it. Then this is interesting.

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Speaker 1: Then we remember bits and pieces of being in like

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Speaker 1: a hangar. Other people were there. It was quite confusing

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Speaker 1: when they when they come to some things are different.

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Speaker 1: First off, there like a mile away from where they

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Speaker 1: blacked out. Yeah, and I think it's worth really quickly.

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Speaker 1: There's some other articles UM about this with with some

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Speaker 1: more detail about this hangar um and he describes it

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Speaker 1: as like like a Walmart situation or like you know,

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Speaker 1: like a massive sort of indoor football field almost with

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Speaker 1: fluorescent lights. And um letter really just go into his description.

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Speaker 1: In this article on grunge dot com, he describes this

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Speaker 1: amber glow emerging on both sides of the road. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then he was all of a sudden transported to

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Speaker 1: this indoor hangar that was bigger than a football field,

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Speaker 1: and he says, we encountered something. It was definitely not

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Speaker 1: of this world. We had a black and white television

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Speaker 1: at time, and the imagery that we saw on this

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Speaker 1: thing was unbelievable. There were lights and looked like fluorescent

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Speaker 1: tubing inside this hangar. This hallway we had seen was

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Speaker 1: circular with a y configuration, almost to control the flow

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Speaker 1: of traffic. This one room had a boat in wall

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Speaker 1: that was rounded. This is not something that you would

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Speaker 1: have seen in nineteen sixty nine anywhere else. I have

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Speaker 1: no idea where I was, but I know that what

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Speaker 1: I saw was very different than anything I've seen today.

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Speaker 1: Fifty years later, Um. He talks about being forced to

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Speaker 1: lie on a table, but jumping up and running away. Um.

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Speaker 1: And he just kind of describes these little glimpses of

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Speaker 1: these these rooms and then this facility, I guess. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then they were back in the car and two

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Speaker 1: hours they lost time. Yeah, they've lost somewhere between two

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Speaker 1: to three hours, more than two hours. How I often

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Speaker 1: see it described, but if you round up, it's three

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Speaker 1: important point though about that description. That's something that they

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Speaker 1: remember later when they wake up in the car. According

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Speaker 1: to their own accounts, when they wake up in the car,

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Speaker 1: they don't know what's happened. They have just lost time.

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Speaker 1: It is only later that they remember this experience and

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Speaker 1: a hangar, and later that other well, the spoilers, other

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Speaker 1: people start to corroborate. One big thing they noticed though,

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Speaker 1: immediately before they rediscovered these memories of what happened. What

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Speaker 1: transpired during this missing time is they notice something is

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Speaker 1: amiss with the arrangement of the people in the station wagon.

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Speaker 1: Remember picturing your head, folks, Mom is driving, grandmother is

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Speaker 1: in the shotgun seat, the kids are in the back seat.

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Speaker 1: Now when they come to in their vehicle, Mom is

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Speaker 1: in the shotgun seat and grandmother is in the driver's seat.

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Speaker 1: Is this a trick of memory? Possibly? Ninety nine was

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Speaker 1: a long time ago. However, it doesn't make sense that

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Speaker 1: she would be in the driver's seat because the grandmother

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Speaker 1: didn't drive. And you know, speaking of tricks of memory, Ben,

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Speaker 1: there's another account that that Tom Read has given where

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Speaker 1: he describes the grandmother upon coming to the grandmother being

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Speaker 1: walking aimlessly outside of the vehicle and the mother being

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Speaker 1: unconscious in the driver's seat, or or the mother at

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Speaker 1: least being unconscious somewhere in the car and the grandmother

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Speaker 1: outside of the car, and then having to get the

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Speaker 1: grandmother back in the car. Yeah, I saw that one,

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Speaker 1: and uh, it's it's tough, you know, it's a it's

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Speaker 1: tough to get the right narrative because we've seen both accounts.

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Speaker 1: The one I've seen most often is the description of

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Speaker 1: the seat switching. Agree. Uh, yeah, but you're right, You're right.

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Speaker 1: The paths diverged there. So the Read family, these four

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Speaker 1: people are the folks most closely associated with this Berkshire's

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Speaker 1: UFO incident or Barrington UFO incident, but they are not

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Speaker 1: the only witnesses alleging they saw something up there in

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Speaker 1: the sky. The local radio station ws b S back

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Speaker 1: in nine September one broadcast accounts of this event from

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Speaker 1: what from what we know based on uh, witness testimony right,

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Speaker 1: or witness stories and accounts people were calling into the

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Speaker 1: local radio station. UH, and it must have been a

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Speaker 1: great night for radio because you get you'll get one

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Speaker 1: of these accounts. But then when you start getting two, three, four, five,

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Speaker 1: a dozen, it gets more and more difficult to say, Oh,

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Speaker 1: someone's just hallucinating or something. And it's weird because for

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Speaker 1: a long time this incident kind of languished in the

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Speaker 1: public discourse, and it was something you would learn about

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Speaker 1: if you talked with folks at Move On, right, or

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Speaker 1: if you've talked with your ufologist friends until until quite recently,

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Speaker 1: Unsolved Mysteries in a Netflix reboot covered this on an

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Speaker 1: episode of their show It's Funny. I think I recommended

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Speaker 1: this to you a while back. Then. There's an Amazon

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Speaker 1: movie called The Vast of Night UM and it's just wonderful.

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Speaker 1: First of all, it's a it's a UFO story takes

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Speaker 1: place in around this time period, like in the sixties,

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Speaker 1: and it has a broadcast component to where there's like

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Speaker 1: a switchboard operator that like, here's this crazy frequency and

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Speaker 1: calls into this radio station to kind of report it,

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Speaker 1: and then I can I can't remember exactly the way

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Speaker 1: it goes, but no spoilers anyway, But um, it has

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Speaker 1: a very similar vibe. And I think that was actually

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Speaker 1: based on the Kecksburg UFO incident, which happened in the

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Speaker 1: nine in Pennsylvania. But uh, a lot of similarity is thematically,

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Speaker 1: and I highly recommend everyone give that movie a shot.

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Speaker 1: It's really cool. I believe, yes, movie is great, and

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Speaker 1: I believe we have an episode on the Kecksburg or

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Speaker 1: at least we get a video. Okay, yeah, Um, that's

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Speaker 1: another great account of something strange like this happening. I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to jump. If you want to watch this,

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Speaker 1: it is on Netflix on Unsolved Mysteries. It's the first

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Speaker 1: season of the new reboot. It is titled Berkshire's UFO

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Speaker 1: And in this when when you check this out, you

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Speaker 1: can hear interviews with Nancy Read, Jane Green, Tom Warner,

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Speaker 1: Melanie Kerchdoor for each of whom are people claiming to

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Speaker 1: have encountered something strange in the sky. You will also

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Speaker 1: hear extensive interview sections with Tom and Matt Reid. They

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Speaker 1: what we can maybe get into this, uh after the break,

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Speaker 1: but they describe what appears to be craft, a physical

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Speaker 1: craft or a strange series of lights. And then some

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Speaker 1: say they remember to some degree being abducted, being taken

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Speaker 1: for a time by something and then returned to Earth.

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Speaker 1: The reason I'm using the air quotes unabducted will become

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Speaker 1: clear later. That's not me being a jerk. Some of

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Speaker 1: the witnesses object to that term. Soon more reports of

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Speaker 1: bizarre activity arrived in nearby areas, including Sheffield, other small

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Speaker 1: towns in the vicinity, even over the state line in Connecticut.

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Speaker 1: So what happened, we'll tell you. After a word from

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Speaker 1: our sponsor, we'll sort of tell you. We'll tell you

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Speaker 1: what they said. Here's where it gets crazy. So we

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Speaker 1: started today's episode with a look at the um sort

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Speaker 1: of the quintessential UFO abduction trope, which we have traced back,

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Speaker 1: you know, with the help of Toby Ball to the

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Speaker 1: incident covered in his podcast Strange Arrivals. What makes this

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Speaker 1: case distinct There are a couple of different characteristics. One

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Speaker 1: is that there are multiple witnesses. According to the Barrington

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Speaker 1: Historical society. There are as many as forty witnesses of

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Speaker 1: with varying descriptions, and you know, varying credibility, I think, uh,

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Speaker 1: or maybe a better way to say it is some

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Speaker 1: are more hesitant to come forward than others, but we

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Speaker 1: have examples of them. Uh. Maybe we can explore some

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Speaker 1: of those examples, some of the non read examples. Oh,

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Speaker 1: that would be great. Um. I think we should start

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Speaker 1: with Tom Warner. Another Tom. By the way, Tom Reid

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Speaker 1: has spelled t h O M, like as in Thomas this. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this Tom is spelled t O M. So Tom Warner

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Speaker 1: was a child at the time, of younger person at

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Speaker 1: the time, and he describes a pretty harrowing situation. Maybe

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Speaker 1: we can start, like with the beginning and tell it

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Speaker 1: a bit cinematically the way they did on Unsolved Mysteries,

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Speaker 1: just because it tends to lead to a little more

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Speaker 1: drama here. Um. But he he was at a neighbor's

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Speaker 1: house not too far from where he lived, where he

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Speaker 1: was doing some coloring. He was a bit of a

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Speaker 1: young artist, and he was at a neighbor's house coloring

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Speaker 1: with crayons. He says, and uh, there were two sisters,

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Speaker 1: the Shaws, and one of them is Jane, who we

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Speaker 1: get to hear from in the Unsolved Mysteries episode. And

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Speaker 1: this is the account of what Tom says he experienced

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Speaker 1: and what Jane seems to confirm, at least in part.

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Speaker 1: It was labor day, like we said, September one, nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty nine. Tom uh was doing his thing, and he

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Speaker 1: says he walked over to a window and experienced a voice,

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Speaker 1: disembodied voice coming to him, which he calls mental telepathy,

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Speaker 1: which is a lot like saying a T M machine

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Speaker 1: or VEN number. Yeah, yeah, yes, And that's a whole

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Speaker 1: separate thing that we're gonna have to just take here

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Speaker 1: and put put over to the side, right, because that

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Speaker 1: doesn't come up in a lot of other accounts. But

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Speaker 1: also also in his defense, he's speaking extemporaneously, and I

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Speaker 1: do want to point out that this Unsolved Mysteries episode

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Speaker 1: is heavily edited. It is it is, so we we

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Speaker 1: don't know, as just the consumers of this episode what

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Speaker 1: fully was said, but we do know that he experienced

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Speaker 1: some kind of voice that told him to go home,

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Speaker 1: and he was looking out the window and said go home,

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Speaker 1: and obviously this scared him. It would probably freak any

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Speaker 1: of us out experiencing something like that. And he told

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Speaker 1: his friend Debbie Shaw, who's the sister of Jane Shaw,

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Speaker 1: that he had to leave. So here's here's a quote

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Speaker 1: from him. So I started bolting out the door. I

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Speaker 1: could feel this energy that was inside me that was

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Speaker 1: like fear from the mental telepathy that I just experienced.

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Speaker 1: And I was running full speed and I remember just

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Speaker 1: feeling like I was flying at this point. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then he he describes like running but not going anywhere,

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Speaker 1: Like it's almost I mean, I think it's probably the

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Speaker 1: most dismissive thing you could ever say to anybody that

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Speaker 1: shares a story like this, Like, are you sure you

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Speaker 1: weren't dreaming? But a lot of these details do feel

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Speaker 1: nightmarish or like dream like the idea of like running

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Speaker 1: from an inescapable larger than life force and not being

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Speaker 1: able to get away, you know what I mean. Um,

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Speaker 1: But that's what he describes. He sayss just so, and

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Speaker 1: allegedly Jane Shaw saw all of this God God out

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Speaker 1: But it's it's interesting to me because she's describing seeing

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Speaker 1: something that I don't know how you can really quantify.

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Speaker 1: And he was like running right here in place, just

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Speaker 1: constantly for about five minutes. He was running in place,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, what is that like

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Speaker 1: literally running in place? Like jogging or like right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: or like a treadmill. You know. Um, it's interesting. I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to picture this well, I mean, just imagine that.

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Speaker 1: In the Unsolved Mysteries show, they do a recrea a

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Speaker 1: recreation of this, and it's just someone levitating just above

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Speaker 1: the ground but running furiously as though they you know,

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Speaker 1: don't realize that they're stuck in one position just for

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Speaker 1: the just for the visual image to give you, fellow

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Speaker 1: conspiracy realist, imagined in so many cartoons when a character

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Speaker 1: begins to run really quickly and just for a second,

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Speaker 1: they're furiously running in the air, but they're not going

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Speaker 1: anyway air, and then they zip off. That's and that's,

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Speaker 1: of course, that is not to be dismissive of what, uh,

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Speaker 1: what Tom is saying here, because another thing that makes

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Speaker 1: it distinct is we have a neighbor, a separate person,

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Speaker 1: saying that they saw what he was experiencing. And he

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Speaker 1: also said that he was receiving assurances from this voice

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Speaker 1: in his head that let him know kind of the

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Speaker 1: same way that a veterinarian talks to an animal when

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Speaker 1: they're giving it, you know, like giving it a shot

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Speaker 1: or checking it for fleas or something, and said, Okay,

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Speaker 1: it'll be over in just a minute. That's a great

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Speaker 1: way to describe it. I didn't think about it that way.

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Speaker 1: That's that's a perfect way to describe it. And Jane

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Speaker 1: also has uh a quantitative aspect to her to her description, right,

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Speaker 1: because she doesn't get hit with a beam, she doesn't

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Speaker 1: hear any weird voice. She's just watching very strange stuff

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Speaker 1: happened to her neighbor. Oh yeah, exactly, So she's just

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Speaker 1: an observer. And she describes that she talks about getting

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Speaker 1: hit by like him being in a beam in in

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Speaker 1: a light, some some kind of light surrounding him and

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Speaker 1: this is what this is what Tom says. He's he

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Speaker 1: even says, I was running, but I wasn't moving. I

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Speaker 1: turned and a UFO dropped right out of the sky

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Speaker 1: in front of me. This beam that we're describing came

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Speaker 1: on me. And as the light was on him, he

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Speaker 1: said that his arms got jerked back to the to

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Speaker 1: the back of him. Basically, if you imagine at the

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Speaker 1: shoulders the arm your arms being stretched out and then

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Speaker 1: behind you as far as they can. And you know

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Speaker 1: that to me just would be uncomfortable and almost as

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Speaker 1: if there's a force being applied or something to the

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Speaker 1: front of him so that his arms are going back

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Speaker 1: where he's being pulled. Um. And then he says, my

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Speaker 1: hands jerked back and it's like the air got sucked

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Speaker 1: out of me. And that is when Jane comes through

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Speaker 1: and says she's describing this light that came around him.

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Speaker 1: And the next thing I know, she says, he disappeared.

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Speaker 1: And the onlookers, which would be Jane Shaw, Debbie Shaw

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Speaker 1: and assuming assumingly the parents of the Shaws if they

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Speaker 1: were present, we I don't. I don't have that information. Um,

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Speaker 1: they could not find Tom. He disappeared and uh for

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Speaker 1: about the span of seven minutes or so. Uh. That's

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Speaker 1: that's the quantitative stuff we're talking about. She puts a

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Speaker 1: number on this, uh, and she says, you know, Tom

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Speaker 1: says the next thing he knows, so he loses a

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Speaker 1: little bit of time here. It sounds like he is

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Speaker 1: being laid down on the other side of his property,

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Speaker 1: and he seems to say it was kind of gentle,

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Speaker 1: like the way you would lay a baby down onto

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Speaker 1: the ground. Uh. He By the time he reappears, Jane says,

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Speaker 1: it's been seven minutes. This is happening again. Just emphasize this.

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Speaker 1: This is happening around the same time released the same

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Speaker 1: day that that the Reed family is running into an

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Speaker 1: incident on the Sheffield Bridge. But Tom's not the only

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Speaker 1: Tom and Jane are not the only people involved. I

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Speaker 1: think we mentioned a little bit earlier. Melanie kerch Door

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Speaker 1: for her story is pretty interesting too. It is not

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Speaker 1: sponsored by Dairy Queen, but Dairy Queen does role in

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Speaker 1: this story. Yes, Melanie and her sister and mother and

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Speaker 1: father were in the v They were in a vehicle

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Speaker 1: and they were at Lake Mansfield, which is roughly two

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Speaker 1: miles from the Great Barrington area, and they were enjoying

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Speaker 1: ice cream. They were just going to hang out out

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Speaker 1: at that lake and get their Dairy Queen on um.

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Speaker 1: And this is what Melanie says. My father backed into

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Speaker 1: the parking lot and this brilliant, bright aura came around

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Speaker 1: and uh. The father looked up and said holy. And

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Speaker 1: she describes how her father was excited by seeing this

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Speaker 1: thing and he wanted to just chase it. He wanted

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Speaker 1: to find out what it was. And I think many

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Speaker 1: of us listening can probably identify with that feeling of

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Speaker 1: once we actually get a chance to see a light

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Speaker 1: in the sky that we can't explain, we very much

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Speaker 1: want to explore it as long as we can, you know,

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Speaker 1: I guess until the fear creeps in. But the mother,

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Speaker 1: you know, was was saying, oh, no, it's probably just

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Speaker 1: a shooting star. But for some reason, Melanie understood that

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Speaker 1: it was not a shooting star and it was not

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Speaker 1: something they should pursue, and the father takes off chasing

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Speaker 1: it with everybody in the v cool and Melanie describes

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Speaker 1: how she and her sister were shaking back there with

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Speaker 1: their dairy queen cones, and her sister doesn't doesn't seem

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Speaker 1: to remember anything after that moment, But Melanie apparently experienced

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Speaker 1: something similar to to Tom, at least somewhat similar to Tom,

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Speaker 1: some kind of abduction experience. Again, they don't really care

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Speaker 1: for the a word. Tom doesn't. Yeah, he describes like

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Speaker 1: a lot of the accounts is like being overblown and

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Speaker 1: sort of miss represented, um, But he does describe being

428
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: taken to a place, uh, and you know, so does Melanie,

429
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: being in a room. That's what I'm saying though, Like,

430
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: is the term abduction inherently loaded? Like I guess that's

431
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: up for debate, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, Like

432
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: we'll get to it. Is it a matter of semantics? Right?

433
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,959
Speaker 1: Is it splitting hairs? But just just to so up

434
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: some of these non read uh non read stories or experiences, Um,

435
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,959
Speaker 1: Melanie did as you say. Matt maintained that her sister

436
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: didn't remember anything, but in her interviews, she says she

437
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: remembered stuff. She just doesn't say whether. She doesn't say

438
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 1: when she remembered it, which is very important, folks. Uh,

439
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: But she says she remembers being on a ship. She

440
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: remembers being in a room with people who were all young,

441
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: specifically child age, right, and she would watch them disappear

442
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: one by one. And then she says, it's interesting, that's

443
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: something in common with the read account. A more extreme version,

444
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: she says, she woke up and she was at that

445
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: lake that Matt just mentioned by herself, and she had

446
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: to walk home. And just for the record, at the time,

447
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: Melanie kirchdoor for is fourteen years old. Let's loop Tom

448
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: back in. Tom who just per his account, disappeared in

449
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: his yard and came back seven minutes later. Uh Tom

450
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: says that he also remembers a ship, right. He also

451
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: remembers some sort of destination who has taken to And

452
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: what's more, he says he saw fourteen year old Melanie

453
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: kirchdor For on the ship. For her part, and I'm

454
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: trying not to be dismissive here, but for her part,

455
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: she says, and this makes me think they're being sincere

456
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: and on. She says she doesn't remember seeing him in

457
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: this place right, but that when they met in person,

458
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: I r L as they say, she felt an instant

459
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: connection to him. And the thing about an instant connection,

460
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I love Cloud Atlas as much as the

461
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: next person think about it, instant connection is it cannot

462
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: be quantified. An instant connection is not evidence, it's not

463
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: and they didn't know each other at the time, true,

464
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: But that instant connection the Melodie describes. Uh Tom describes

465
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: remembering her eyes from that ship, from being on that

466
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: ship and connecting somehow with her eyes and remembered that

467
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: aspect of the whole situation. But there's the thing about this.

468
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 1: We've got three young people who describe fairly similar stories

469
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: of experiencing light and then being taken somewhere and then

470
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: being returned later on. Well, I don't want to be

471
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: the apostle, jostler or whatever here, but the thing is, um,

472
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: is it not more accurate for us to say what

473
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: we have are three separate people who are recalling events

474
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: that occurred when they were children in n I think both.

475
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: I think both are true. There were calling events that

476
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: having the nineteen sixty nine, but they're also recalling events

477
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: that they believe are true. It feels like right right,

478
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: But I'm saying, like, did they Oh, we don't find

479
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: accounts of them as children. There's no journal entry from

480
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: that day that was written down the day of or

481
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: immediately after. I agreed, agree to that. So let's take

482
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: those young people's experiences, whatever they were, or remembrances of

483
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: experiences and put them to the side for a moment

484
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: and jumped to a totally different account, one that is

485
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: told by Jane Green, another witness who experienced something while

486
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: she was on the highway with a friend traveling. I

487
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: think she was north of Great Barrington, traveling south towards

488
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: the town, and she saw something on the highway there's

489
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: a lot of Tom's and Jane's in this story. I

490
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: did a uh, I like how you said that with

491
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: the air of its Chinatown Jack as Massachusetts baby. So

492
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: oh gosh, the emails. I feel a disturbance in the

493
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: correspondence force. But um, there's there's a really interesting, interesting

494
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: phenomenon that is probably more suited to brain stuff. I

495
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: can't remember if I did it on there about the

496
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: rise and fall generationally of popularity of certain names, and

497
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: it is cyclical. Uh So that a story for another day. Wait, yes,

498
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: Thomas and jan Thomas and Matthew in a in a

499
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: good Catholic place like Massachusetts. Come on, they're they're gonna

500
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: be everywhere, They're gonna be. Uh it's it's a common name, right.

501
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: Uh So Jane Green differed from Jane Shaw. It's just

502
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: after dark, right, the sky the sun has western which

503
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: is where it never gets to use. And Jane is

504
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: with her friend in a vehicle. They're traveling from Stockbridge

505
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: to Great Barrington, Stockbridge being another town the Massachusetts. Uh.

506
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: Jane sees a bunch of lights ahead, and she is

507
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: to be absolutely fair. In multiple portrayals. She seems to

508
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: be the most skeptical of our firsthand witnesses because she's, Yeah,

509
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: when she sees a bunch of lights ahead, she makes

510
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: the assumption that a lot of us would make, which

511
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: is cops or a car accident or a fire, you

512
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: know what I mean. That's where you see a lot

513
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: of roadside lights, maybe construction. But I liked that it

514
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: was like cops, like, oh no, slow down, Oh come on,

515
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: like if you're this now, we have l e os

516
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: in the in the audience today, um, law enforcement officers, right, yes, sorry,

517
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: law enforcement officers. And one thing I think a lot

518
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: of non like a lot of civilians, a lot of

519
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: non l eos encounter when you when you see police

520
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: car with irons on, your first assumption, right is to

521
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: check to make sure that it's not you, like, how

522
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: fast am I going? Bro? Windows down? And that doesn't

523
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: mean everybody's automatically a criminal. Is just a gut reaction

524
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,439
Speaker 1: that we're programmed to have. And so she thinks, um,

525
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: she thinks, okay, there's something happening down the road, right,

526
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: and she doesn't think aliens or anything like that. But

527
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:27,399
Speaker 1: the lights are so bright that she has to pull over.

528
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,439
Speaker 1: She can't safely drive, and other cars are on the road,

529
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 1: which is different from a lot of against stereotypical UFO stories.

530
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: That car in front of her pulls over to and

531
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: then uh, Jane and her friend exit the vehicle to

532
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: see what's going on. Because we all have that kind

533
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: of vicarious morbidity with car accidents, right, that's the reason

534
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: that that's the reason that traffic jams follow car accidents.

535
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,959
Speaker 1: It's not because the road is impaired. It's because every

536
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: body has this sort of sick inclination to slow down

537
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: and watch. Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, for sure we

538
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: all have that. Um M, I wanna, I wanna look

539
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: at one detail here just before we move forward. I

540
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: think we've all had this experience where you're driving either

541
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 1: pretty early in the morning or as dusk is occurring,

542
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: or just as the sun is setting, where the sun

543
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: is at an angle and you're driving on a road

544
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: that's probably easter it's east or west definitely, where the

545
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: sun just appears to be directly in your field of view.

546
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: It's sun in Atlanta. There are several streets where it

547
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: happens to me a lot, and I'm just this is

548
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,479
Speaker 1: the only thing I can imagine where there's so much

549
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 1: bright light entering the windshield that you are unable to

550
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: continue driving where you have to drive so slowly an

551
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,280
Speaker 1: attempt to cover in some way to continue on safely.

552
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: It happens to me on the interstates sometimes when traffic

553
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: is crazy and I like, I don't know what to do.

554
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: I'm like, do I pull of her like it's not

555
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: gonna go away? I better just power through it? Or

556
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: do I wait for the position of the sun to move.

557
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 1: I mean, it is. You're right, it's debilitating and it's

558
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: very scary. Well, just imagine that amount of light or

559
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: the equivalent of that amount of light occurring at night

560
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 1: and still being in front of your vehicle where you

561
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 1: can't you can't continue on, you feel like you can't

562
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: continue on. UM. And we don't have any information about uh,

563
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: Jane Green's eyesight right, or like whether or not she

564
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: can drive with or without corrective lenses, or how light

565
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: may affect her vision, because it does affect our vision differently,

566
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: each of us individually at night. UM. But still just

567
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: trying to imagine that UM, and then and then imagining

568
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: that there is that other person or vehicle full of

569
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 1: people in front of her that experienced the same thing

570
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: that's very very important here, and we have we actually

571
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 1: have a quote from Jane Green from that Unsolved Mysteries episode.

572
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 1: This huge object floated right there and I couldn't see

573
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: the end of it from the right or from the left.

574
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 1: It was immense and most of all, there was no

575
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: noise that ship. That tracks right with the other account,

576
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 1: the idea of this like calm before or like being

577
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: in the eye of the hurricane or whatever, um, where

578
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: everything just takes on this eerie calm. Um. Back to

579
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: the quote, there was no motor, there was nothing. It

580
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: was just there and these lights were coming and I

581
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 1: just looked at it, and within a period of seconds

582
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: it lifted up, went this way, lifted up again and

583
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: went over the mountain. And she's just she's using your

584
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: hands to describe in that quote, Um, that it just

585
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: it went. It went vertically, then horizontally for a bit,

586
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 1: then vertically again. I want to I want to hear

587
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: the account of the person who was driving in front

588
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: of Jane Green and her friend, because if there's if

589
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: that person, if that person is a witness and has

590
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: a very similar story than my goodness, um, I don't know,

591
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: it would make me leave it a whole lot more

592
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: if it wasn't for Jane Green's statements about what you

593
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 1: said ben her at least self identification as a nonbeliever

594
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 1: at the time. Yeah, going back to uh, my earlier

595
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: point about some witnesses being more reticent to retrace their

596
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 1: stories or to go on those sorts of programs like

597
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 1: Unsolved Mysteries. We don't know who else saw something and

598
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: decided not to report it if those people were there.

599
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: And to your point, Matt, Uh, what's interesting about Jane

600
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: is she does describe herself as a skeptic. Flying saucers

601
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: are bologny. Uh. A lot of people say, like a

602
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: lot of people in this area of the country seemed

603
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 1: to say bologney pretty frequently. It's like the radio friendly

604
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: version of bs. Uh. So, anyhow, this has changed her mind.

605
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,919
Speaker 1: This something she can't explain. She tells her spouse and

606
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 1: he says, you know, go go tell the radio station

607
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,919
Speaker 1: w SPS. So she finds a guy named Tom Ray.

608
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: He's the director of the radio station at the time.

609
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: In nine she tells him. He starts to laugh and says, okay,

610
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 1: well even drinking he has been time went on, you

611
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: got space druck and which is a word we just

612
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: made up. But but so so he says, you know, well, okay,

613
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: calm down, it's probably swamp gas, which is of course

614
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: the UFO, the UFO version of it's probably the wind

615
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: I used to read word up magazine and uh sorry,

616
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: that's the hip hop fans. But but she she six

617
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: to her guns. We don't know what the other people

618
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 1: in those cars may have seen. And if the lights

619
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: were so bright such that someone could not drive, then

620
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: other people would have noticed it, even if they were

621
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 1: in their homes near the road, you know what I mean.

622
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 1: And and this is really important that she went to

623
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: the radio station to tell someone, no matter what the

624
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 1: reaction was, she was you know, there should be an

625
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: account of that. There should be records and that we

626
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: can look at. And what we're gonna do after a

627
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor is just look at what evidence

628
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: do we have outside of witness statements from people who

629
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: said they saw something. And we're back. So that was

630
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: our That was all the first thing that sets this

631
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: an incident, apart from many other alleged DUFO sightings. Multiple witnesses,

632
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: many as many as forty, will tell you where we

633
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 1: got that number in a moment. But when I go

634
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: to your point, Matt about the radio station, because there

635
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: are numerous accounts contemporaneous accounts, which means accounts that occur

636
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: at the same time as this event. They're numerous contemporaneous

637
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: accounts of people calling that local radio station on the

638
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 1: same night to report something wonky. Jane Green went to

639
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: the director because she was familiar with the guy, but

640
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:23,720
Speaker 1: other people were just calling in. Unfortunately, no audio recordings

641
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 1: of those calls exists today. Uh. And it also seems

642
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:34,959
Speaker 1: that some of these witnesses, uh we explored for just there.

643
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: Uh some of those forty witnesses came forward later after

644
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: hearing about reports from Read or someone else. Additionally, if

645
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: you look at local law enforcement, their records show this

646
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 1: was a quiet night, even for a quiet town. There

647
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: are two incidents on the books for that evening. One

648
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: is good news. There was a woman who was reported

649
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 1: missing and she was later found that day, September one,

650
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: nineteen nine in stock Bridge. Uh. And too, there was

651
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: a guy who called the cops to complain about, uh,

652
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: mysterious people throwing beer cans and trash in his yard.

653
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: So he's calling about a dumpster problem, about littering. With

654
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: those two reports, you would think that a massive object

655
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 1: in the sky displayed bright lights altering the behavior of wildlife,

656
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 1: levitating people, and so on would also be something that

657
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: local law enforcement wrote down in their log of the

658
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 1: evening if they took it seriously. But they do have

659
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: a report of a woman who went missing and then

660
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: was found, just like those kids like Tom went missing

661
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 1: for about seven minutes and then he came back. Very

662
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 1: good point. Another another distinction uh that often gets reported

663
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,800
Speaker 1: in this case as a as a way of lending

664
00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: credibility to the witnesses or experiencers as there often called,

665
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: is this. Tom Reid is kind of our protagonist in

666
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: this story. He took a polygraph test and he passed it.

667
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,879
Speaker 1: What we mean when we say passed it is that

668
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: the person in ministering the polygraph test felt that he

669
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 1: was giving truthful answers to those questions. Doesn't prove that

670
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: he saw stuff, but it proves that he believes it

671
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: like it proves he's not lying, unless, of course, he

672
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 1: is gaming the polygraph tests. Because it is far from

673
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: a solid diagnostic tool, it's kind of ridiculous that is

674
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 1: still used as often as it is It's funny how

675
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,800
Speaker 1: the whole polygraph test concept really is just a series

676
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: of traps um to try and get somebody to confess

677
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 1: to something by making them think that you know that

678
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: they're lying, including the new chair mechanisms, because like the

679
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: clinching of the butt and tightening of the there's all

680
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: there's all kinds of ways to try and beat this thing,

681
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 1: and then all new way us to try and beat

682
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: the beating of it. It's a it's a fascinating thing.

683
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: So say, I'll take my polygraph, but I'll only do

684
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 1: it standing, So get away. So you get away with

685
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:16,240
Speaker 1: the thumbtack in your shoe and flexing your flexing your cakes. Um, oh,

686
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 1: flexing the kegs, holding in the Joscelyn the apostles and

687
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: flexing the kegs. That's the takeaway. But like it's we've

688
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 1: talked about the fallibility of polygraphs a lot, like over

689
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 1: the years on the show, because it is, you know,

690
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 1: like it's not even fully admissible, right like in a

691
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 1: courtroom situation, or it's considered kind of a little bit dubious. Right, Yeah,

692
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:46,919
Speaker 1: it really shouldn't beat um because it's because it's far

693
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: from full proof, right, And There are still organizations, of course,

694
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: that require as part of a background investigation the administration

695
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 1: of a polygraph test, but that I would argue is

696
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: sort of a a legacy thing, or it's a framework

697
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:06,439
Speaker 1: for people who are very proficient interrogators to use. Like

698
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: the people in a lot of investigations and background checks,

699
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: the people who are using a polygraph tests are usually

700
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: going to be good enough at discerning folks true intentions, motivations,

701
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: and beliefs that they probably don't need a neat little

702
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 1: gadget on the side. They can probably just cold read

703
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: the crap out of you. But you know, it makes

704
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 1: it official their needles and little suctions and stuff. Correct

705
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong. Was it an episode of The

706
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: Wire where they do a thing with a copier? They

707
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: get a guy like convincing that it's a lie detector,

708
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: and they make copies of different things, And I think

709
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: you're right, that might be a wire Psychological influences, yes, yeah, yeah,

710
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: like an E meter but the shots fired, I guess.

711
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 1: But uh, look here, they're very important things. This is

712
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 1: running a little along, but they're very important things. We

713
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,359
Speaker 1: have to clarify when we ask what may or may

714
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: not have happened. First. The Reed brothers claim they've seen

715
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 1: UFOs before this time, and it's something that the Unsolved

716
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 1: Mysteries episode in particular does not cover. Uh. In fact,

717
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 1: they believe this was the third time they had seen

718
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: your UFO. They said they have four encounters total, one

719
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty six, one in nineteen sixty seven, the

720
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 1: famous nineteen sixty nine incident with mother and grandmother, and

721
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 1: then a fourth experience by Matt Reid alone in two

722
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: thousand nine in Indiana. But No, you raised an interesting

723
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: point that off air, that the story of the Reed

724
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: family and UFOs may start before nineteen sixty six. Yeah,

725
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 1: it's interesting, Um. The the Reed family has sort of

726
00:46:55,840 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: a history of UFO sightings. Back in nineteen fift four,

727
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: h Nancy and Howard, who were the parents of the

728
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:10,320
Speaker 1: Red Kids, UM, had an experience of their own. Nancy

729
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: was fifteen, and she and her mother and her brother

730
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: and her brother's girlfriend had rented a cabin at a

731
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: place called Moosehead Lake in Massachusetts. And Uh, they awoke

732
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:28,439
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night to a streaming light situation. UM,

733
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: and they claimed to have seen squat pudgy figures standing

734
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: in the room watching them in silence. UM, and she Uh,

735
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 1: this really does sound like a sleep paralysis situation. Nancy

736
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,720
Speaker 1: claims that she was unable to move, but could feel

737
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: her body moving, as though it was being moved by

738
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: some force. Uh, some force was moving her legs. Um.

739
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 1: And then all of this kind of faded when the

740
00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: sun came up. Um. But she felt nauseous afterwards, and

741
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,839
Speaker 1: you know, uh, and then the sons um had an

742
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 1: experience like I think five or six years before the

743
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: most famous one in the car where they saw these

744
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: like orbs of light come into their bedroom. Um. It's

745
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: just interesting, Like, you know, we've talked about the fallibility

746
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 1: of memory and you know, the idea of not implanting

747
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 1: yourself with memories or whatever. But that's certainly something that

748
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: we know can happen. But it's interesting that this is

749
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: like a generational thing within this family. Like does that

750
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:36,439
Speaker 1: mean it's more uh credible, or does it mean it's less?

751
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 1: Like is this something that maybe mom told the kids

752
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:41,879
Speaker 1: about growing up and it was just part of their

753
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: world and it was like something they wanted to be

754
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: a part of. And you know, I don't know for

755
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: the true believers in the audience, it may mean that

756
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 1: this family is targeted for one reason or another because

757
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: of their DNA or for some of the reason that

758
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 1: we just don't know, But for the more skeptical it

759
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 1: would mean a completely different thing. Yeah, that's what I'm saying,

760
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: affair before we started rolling on this, That's the thing

761
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: that gets me. There's a rorshack ink blot to this

762
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: kind of thing. And I'm glad that you guys are

763
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: bringing this up on air and it didn't it didn't

764
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 1: just die in or or behind the seeds conversations, because

765
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: we're gonna see that as a common thread, and we

766
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: already have. I would argue. Psychologists may say perhaps the

767
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:27,720
Speaker 1: mother was knowingly or unknowingly manipulating people, but I I

768
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: also believe, Um, I can't remember if I said this

769
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 1: before we started rolling, but I also believe that it's

770
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 1: um it's woefully unhelpful to try to ascribe intention or

771
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 1: motivation to these folks without studying them. Right, Like, if

772
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,959
Speaker 1: you haven't met uh, if you haven't met Nancy Reed,

773
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: then you really it's unfair to her and to her

774
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: family to say that she's tilting the scale. But it's

775
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,760
Speaker 1: also unfair to ourselves not to acknowledge that is a possibility.

776
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: Um So again, yeah, it's it's kind of an eye

777
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: of the will holder thing. The second part here is

778
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:09,399
Speaker 1: that the second clarification is that Tom Reid in particular

779
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 1: feels his story has been massively sensationalized and perhaps his

780
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 1: experience has therefore been exploited or cheapened. He describes a

781
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 1: pretty shady editing process that's familiar to any of us

782
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 1: who have worked at all in the world of reality

783
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: television or checked out our episode on that maybe Frank Imbiding,

784
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: maybe he says something completely you know, completely valid, and

785
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,839
Speaker 1: sincere them has taken out of context and they've got

786
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 1: some really like weekly World News esque v O book

787
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: ending it, you know. Uh. He particularly like he's appeared

788
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 1: on a number of different shows. He's been on something

789
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:53,959
Speaker 1: called Paranormal Paparazzi, which I haven't seen, Alien Mysteries, and

790
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: he says that these producers, these companies promised to take

791
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 1: his story seriously a k A. Treat it with respect, uh,

792
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: before they went on air, and they exaggerated everything. And

793
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: one of those one of those big things that he

794
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 1: objected to, specifically was terminology, the use of the word abductions.

795
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: He says he never uses that word, and he makes

796
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: a good point because he feels it unfairly characterizes his family. Uh,

797
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 1: he says, you know, we're credible in our accounts. We're

798
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:30,439
Speaker 1: not a bunch of raving lunatics. Lunatics. By the way,

799
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 1: etymo logically is interesting. It means taking long walks under

800
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: the moon basically, well, the idea of the moon like

801
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: being a source of madness or something, right, and it's

802
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: very interesting. No, it's what we were kind of alluding

803
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 1: to a little earlier, like is this just an issue

804
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 1: of semantics? Um, But it's true when you're when you're

805
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: doing sort of a loaded type UFO sort of like, uh,

806
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: sensationalized story. Yeah, you're gonna around terms like abduction and

807
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: grays and all that kind of stuff. And it doesn't

808
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 1: necessarily mean the words themselves are loaded, but it's all

809
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: about like the context and the way the story is portrayed.

810
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:12,799
Speaker 1: And I think that's what he took issue with, was

811
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: the editing and like the way it was sort of characterized.

812
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: But you're on a show called UFO Paparazzi, I mean,

813
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 1: what do you think is going to happen? That's the problem. Yeah,

814
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 1: I mean it's somewhere between incredibly dismissive and disrespectful, you

815
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 1: know what I mean, like adding in some crazy mood

816
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:33,479
Speaker 1: sound effects or something cheapens it. But anyway, I don't

817
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 1: align the mode, my friend, don't I agree? And I

818
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: was telling you, you guys off air. I listened to

819
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: a podcast called Lights Out the Disgust this story, and

820
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 1: most of it was it was well done, um, and

821
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 1: I was able to check out, you know, most of

822
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 1: the stories and they tied to sources that I read

823
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 1: and that we've discussed. But there was this whole account

824
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:03,319
Speaker 1: of like these alien beings in the walmart, you know,

825
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: hangar situation with like almond shaped heads and like limbs

826
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: like bamboo and like mushroom colored skin. And I didn't

827
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: find accounts of that anywhere. Like it's certainly I don't

828
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: believe was anything that that read uh spoke of. So

829
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: that felt like some real styling. And hey, creators of

830
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,359
Speaker 1: that show, uh, if if you hear this, I'd love

831
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 1: to hear your sources, because it certainly wasn't cited. And

832
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: I googled the hell out of it and couldn't find

833
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 1: any mention of these things style it on them. Yeah.

834
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: The the idea of credibility and legitimacy is is is

835
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 1: crucial here. It's it's fundamentally important because this is a

836
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:45,879
Speaker 1: controversial account of an experience. Right there is uh, there

837
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 1: is good news for the true believers. It's it's relatively

838
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 1: small piece of good news, but it gives an air

839
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 1: of legitimacy. In twenty fifteen, the the story hit a

840
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: milestone the local historical society, the Great Barrington Historical Society,

841
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 1: decided they would recognize this incident as a quote, official

842
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 1: historical events. The director of the society, one Debbie Opperman, said,

843
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:17,879
Speaker 1: quote it's a significantly historic event because check this part out,

844
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 1: because it's an event that was important to many people

845
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: in South County at the time, which is a kind

846
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 1: of a replacement for that Berkshire County area. So they're

847
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 1: not saying we believe aliens are real. They're saying, in

848
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 1: the history of our community, this is a big event

849
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 1: because a lot of people were involved, you know what

850
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 1: I mean. Yeah, But then the plaque reads in a

851
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 1: way that surely seems to offer some belief, you know,

852
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 1: our legitimacy to to the accounts, right but it's also

853
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 1: over the top. I'll just read what it says. The

854
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 1: plaque reads the official induction of our nation's first off

855
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 1: world UFO incident of world. I mean clearly sort of

856
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: meant to be like a tourist draw perhaps right, like

857
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: a roadside oddity. And um, it's not like they've never

858
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 1: heard of the Roswell crash or the other things, like

859
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 1: some of these events became big news even is this

860
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 1: sort of like a best cup of coffee in town situation?

861
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's like, Nick, can you really quantify something

862
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: that's that objective or subjective? Rather? Yeah, what was that

863
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 1: old Uncle Tupelo joke? Like the fourth best country band

864
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 1: in Missouri or something or in St. Louis stuff like that.

865
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:49,240
Speaker 1: I like it. But this was you know, this wasn't

866
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:54,919
Speaker 1: This wasn't met with universal excitement from the community, right. Um.

867
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:59,359
Speaker 1: It was definitely controversial and folks you know, tagged it up,

868
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:04,800
Speaker 1: vandalized that um. And then recently last year in June,

869
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 1: on June four, it was removed. And I've seen read

870
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 1: commenting on this, and he actually petitioned the city to

871
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:16,320
Speaker 1: not do that because he found it to be legitimizing

872
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 1: his story. Um and his family's legacy or whatever right

873
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 1: to to to give it some historical heft um. But

874
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: it does feel to me a little more like a

875
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 1: bit of an opportunistic move on the city's part. Oh yeah,

876
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 1: it's so. Their official reasoning, and some of this is

877
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 1: probably continuing through courts that's been slowed because of the pandemic.

878
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 1: Their official reasoning is that, uh, it was it's a

879
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 1: property dispute, like where can the monument be legally located?

880
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 1: We should also say Tom Reid is one of those

881
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 1: private supporters who raised money to build this obelisk itsnopolisk.

882
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 1: Uh of course. Yeah. I think if I were a

883
00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 1: stranger driving through this town for the first time, I'll

884
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 1: stop and look at that, you know, think of a

885
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 1: Mothman statue. Come on, God, that guy is thick, has

886
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: six and some clappers on the back end. It was

887
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: like part of that sculpture. It made me feel things

888
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 1: that never felt before. You guys, let's let's really quickly.

889
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 1: I know we're running on time here. Let's get into

890
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 1: the reasons that this feels a little weird. We've got

891
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 1: all these witnesses, but we don't have freaking proof. Where's

892
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 1: where's the proof of this occurring? Where the photographs, where

893
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: the radio reports, where's the local newspaper writing about this?

894
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 1: Why let's just talk about what we've got in that realm? Yeah? Yeah.

895
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: This leads to like this is um this I was

896
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,440
Speaker 1: talking kind of talking about before when I air too,

897
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 1: like the the the rorshak nature of it, you know

898
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 1: what I mean, the tea leaf reading here us. It

899
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 1: introduces us to a standing conspiracy theory. One of the

900
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 1: most intriguing concepts about this incident hinges on the idea

901
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 1: that government agents, for one reason or another, may have

902
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 1: actively conspired to cover up reports of this or cover

903
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 1: up hard evidence. Uh. And to your point, Matt, there

904
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 1: are key key pieces of hard evidence that we would

905
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 1: reasonably expect to find that are missing. For instance, there

906
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 1: is no record of that radio broadcast from the evening

907
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 1: of September one, Ninette. Why well, Could it be because

908
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: they didn't take it seriously, didn't decide to record it

909
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 1: for posterity. Could it be because it was just their

910
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 1: s o P standard operating procedure to not keep audio

911
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 1: copies of every single program they did every single night

912
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 1: back in nineteen sixty nine. Probably yes, And also yes, well,

913
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, because you know, it's not like they

914
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 1: had digital recording, where recording space is unlimited and you

915
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 1: can just record things constantly. Would have had been recorded

916
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 1: on tape like on Real to Real, and those take

917
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 1: up space. There's no reasonable expectation that a radio station

918
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 1: in the sixties like that would have recorded everything unless

919
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 1: it was special broadcast, you know, some kind of like

920
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:21,919
Speaker 1: Christmas thing or who knows, or like something noteworthy enough

921
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 1: for the DJ or their anchor to like flip on

922
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 1: a tape. Though I would argue that this does fall

923
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 1: into that category, even it's only in the oddities kind

924
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 1: of camp. I would certainly be like, oh, let's roll

925
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 1: the tape on this. We can use this for some

926
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 1: crazy bloopers. You know, one day this comes up in

927
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 1: the Halloween clip show, right honously does always record, always record,

928
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 1: And let's jump over to the newspapers, because there was

929
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 1: a local historian from Berkshire County, Gary Leville, level he

930
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 1: he was coming through archives at the local newspapers for

931
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 1: at least a month and he was unable to find

932
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 1: anything in time period around September one, both before and

933
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 1: after that mentioned any sightings from any locals um. And

934
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 1: again is that because the paper didn't think it was credible.

935
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 1: It appears that that at least was true in a

936
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 1: couple of cases, um, where the paper didn't want to

937
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 1: commit it to writing because they didn't want the town

938
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:24,480
Speaker 1: to be this weird place where UFOs happen or where

939
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 1: delusional people think they see UFOs, depending on how you

940
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 1: feel about it. Yeah, and in both of those cases,

941
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 1: that's an editorial choice, right, it's completely legal for them

942
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 1: to do that. However, there's a third case when we

943
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 1: when we get to the matter of law enforcement, those

944
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 1: organizations are required to document stuff legally. So there's a

945
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 1: guy named Santi Gulata. He was the Sheffield Chief of

946
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: Police in nineteen sixty nine when this occurred, and according

947
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: to his son Eddie in later interviews, Glata did actually

948
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 1: receive phone calls about some sort of mysterious object in

949
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 1: the sky, but he didn't believe the reports because you know,

950
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 1: if you're running if you're running an open phone line,

951
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 1: you probably get a lot of crazy calls. One eight

952
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 1: three three st d w y t k let us know.

953
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:22,040
Speaker 1: But we do have that account of there not being

954
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 1: anything on the books whatsoever right on that day. Besides

955
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 1: the missing woman that I still contend may have something

956
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:33,120
Speaker 1: to do with this one one. There's one big elephant

957
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 1: in the zoom call though, uh, and it's this. There's

958
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 1: a socio political kind of context that in which this occurs,

959
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 1: and it's not isolated from it. We're in the middle

960
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:50,440
Speaker 1: of the Cold War, right. Also, this is just months

961
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 1: after the first official moon landing. Right, space is very

962
01:01:56,680 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 1: much on everybody's mind. And it's certain that the alphabet

963
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 1: soup is gonna keep tabs on any unusual activity the

964
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 1: world militaries, forget just the U. S. Military. If you

965
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 1: hear about a strange object in the sky, your first

966
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:14,440
Speaker 1: thought is gonna maybe not be aliens, but it's gonna

967
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 1: be like, is this just weather balloon or did the

968
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 1: other guys though, bad guys build something that we don't have,

969
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 1: So I like, we know that we're extensive investigations. Oh yeah, absolutely.

970
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 1: Here here's the other part of that. Let's say you're

971
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: an advanced civilization keeping light tabs on. You know, a

972
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:42,760
Speaker 1: group of semi intelligent animals that can drive cars and

973
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 1: fly airplanes, and they can shoot things up into the

974
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 1: atmosphere a bit, but they can't really do much else

975
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 1: besides that, and all of a sudden you notice that

976
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 1: a ship has made its way all the way to

977
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 1: the lunar surface of the moon of that planet. Maybe

978
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 1: you'd start doing a little more closer research right after

979
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 1: closer monitoring. Yeah, yeah, let's yeah, let's look at this.

980
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,440
Speaker 1: Let's see what they're up to. Right, I get it. Uh,

981
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 1: so you go, so you go to Great Barrington, Massachusetts,

982
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 1: right right, because you had earlier abducted someone from that region,

983
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 1: and now you want to see what they're how your

984
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 1: genetic experience haven't affected their offspring, etcetera. You can mad

985
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 1: live anything into that. I mean, that's the most compelling

986
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 1: kind of more out there, uh way of looking at this.

987
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 1: I love the multi generational idea of like the parents

988
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:42,000
Speaker 1: being you know, targeted in some way and they're like

989
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 1: lineage or whatever. I think that's pretty cool. Um. I

990
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 1: don't know if it's it's a thing, but it's certainly

991
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 1: an interesting thing to think about. Well, then the other

992
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 1: question is, of course, the the bet I want to

993
01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:59,959
Speaker 1: put this very diplomatically, this is not my personal belief,

994
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 1: but it is an understandable belief on the part of

995
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 1: some skeptics to say, there's something inherently narcissistic about the

996
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 1: idea that out of billions of people on the planet

997
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:20,000
Speaker 1: who are all uh, you know, physiologically, we're all pretty

998
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 1: much the iterations on a theme or variations on a theme.

999
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 1: There's something kind of narcissistic about saying, well, they singled

1000
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 1: me out multiple times, and I therefore am special for

1001
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:36,000
Speaker 1: that reason. Uh. And it's like, you know, like paranoia

1002
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 1: is ultimately a narcissistic uh, flavor of of thought or ideation.

1003
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 1: I don't agree with that, but I see where people

1004
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 1: are coming from with that. In my opinion, I don't

1005
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 1: think there there's anyone who's like purposefully lying to folks

1006
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 1: for attention. And I think, you know, to say that

1007
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:01,840
Speaker 1: is the case without all it proof become comes very

1008
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 1: close to victim blaming, which which would be irresponsible of

1009
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:09,240
Speaker 1: us at this point. Uh, Matt, you had a quote

1010
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:13,240
Speaker 1: from Jane Green that you quite liked in the Unsolved

1011
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 1: Mysteries episode. Oh, yes, I do, and you'll have to

1012
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:20,720
Speaker 1: forgive us Unsolved Mysteries. We very much enjoyed your your episode.

1013
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:24,880
Speaker 1: And I'm pulling another direct quote from your program. Yeah,

1014
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:29,920
Speaker 1: and I'm doing it because Jane Green just is highly

1015
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:35,480
Speaker 1: convincing to me personally in her reasoning behind telling this story,

1016
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 1: behind wanting you to hear her story. So I'm just

1017
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:42,440
Speaker 1: gonna read it. I just wish that everyone that sees

1018
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 1: this talking about the Unsolved Mysteries episode really would open

1019
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:49,000
Speaker 1: their minds, because I know the people that are being

1020
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:52,720
Speaker 1: interviewed are people just like everyone out there that probably

1021
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 1: at one time didn't believe, doubted and when this happens,

1022
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:00,439
Speaker 1: there is no doubt. I have no reason to make

1023
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:03,800
Speaker 1: anything up. I'm eighty five years old, and this is

1024
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 1: not something that I expected to do or ever to

1025
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 1: talk about. It's real. It's for real. People have got

1026
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 1: to understand that. And this shares a common thread with

1027
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 1: Tom Reid's earlier statement before the record. I want to

1028
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:22,880
Speaker 1: point out that while it's true he and others have

1029
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 1: made multiple appearances on various uh, I would call them

1030
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 1: paranormal popcorn shows just because I like the alliteration. Not

1031
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 1: trying to start trying to get any beef points. UH.

1032
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:40,480
Speaker 1: But just because they've made appearances on these shows doesn't

1033
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:43,680
Speaker 1: mean that they're somehow con artists. You know, we have

1034
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:47,840
Speaker 1: to listen to people clearly and objectively. It's safe to

1035
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 1: say that these events, their participation in these shows or

1036
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:56,000
Speaker 1: other media outlets, haven't made them wealthy. They're not milking

1037
01:06:56,080 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 1: this as some sort of extra terrestrial cash cow. They simply,

1038
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:03,440
Speaker 1: in fact, they simply told their story once and have

1039
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 1: stuck with it throughout multiple decades. It is safe to say,

1040
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 1: at the very least that they believe this story is true.

1041
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:17,200
Speaker 1: So what about you, conspiracy realist, what are your thoughts?

1042
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:19,280
Speaker 1: We would love to hear them. You can feel free

1043
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:23,720
Speaker 1: to abduct us in your UFO and and give us

1044
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 1: the firsthand scoop if you were involved with this uh

1045
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 1: and if not, if you don't happen to have a

1046
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 1: running UFO. Now, you can always find us on the internet.

1047
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:35,240
Speaker 1: You sure can. We are on all the usual spots

1048
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 1: the social media's conspiracy stuff or conspiracy stuff show on Instagram. Um,

1049
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:43,920
Speaker 1: you can join our Facebook group which we love dearly,

1050
01:07:44,200 --> 01:07:47,520
Speaker 1: that is called Here's where it Gets Crazy. On Facebook's

1051
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 1: name and name of any of the names involved in

1052
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:54,320
Speaker 1: the show. Super producer Paul Michion, controlled dec end doc Holiday,

1053
01:07:54,680 --> 01:08:00,439
Speaker 1: Noel Matt Ben Excuse me, excuse me if you don't

1054
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:03,080
Speaker 1: put the code name Colin dot Holiday you're out now.

1055
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 1: I'm kidding, we're pretty forgiving. Make Ben laugh. Um, let

1056
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 1: us know that you're a human person who's aware of

1057
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 1: the show, and you are in for all the good

1058
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:13,560
Speaker 1: memes and discussions and tom foolery that goes on that group.

1059
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:16,840
Speaker 1: And if you're not into social media, you should give

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01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:20,000
Speaker 1: us a call. Our number is one eight three three

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01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:25,599
Speaker 1: st d w y t K. Huge shout out to Jen. Jen,

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01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 1: you know who you are. You gave us a call

1063
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:31,040
Speaker 1: and you told us about this topic. Weirdly enough, we

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01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:35,439
Speaker 1: are behind back to I think early October in our

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01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:38,240
Speaker 1: voicemails and we're getting through it right now. But I

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01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 1: watched this episode of Unsolved Mysteries, then checked out some

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01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 1: uh some voicemails and heard you tell us about this episode.

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01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:51,320
Speaker 1: So it just world's came together. Thank you so much, Jen.

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01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 1: I left. I would have left you message, but I

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01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:56,960
Speaker 1: think your voicemail box is full. Uh so, like Jen,

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01:08:57,160 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 1: give us a call, tell us what you think and

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01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:01,559
Speaker 1: uh yeah, just let us know if we can use

1073
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:04,080
Speaker 1: your name and likeness on the show. If you don't

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01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:06,600
Speaker 1: want to do that, there's always the best way to

1075
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:09,360
Speaker 1: get in contact with us. Send us a good old

1076
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:32,320
Speaker 1: fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com.

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01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:34,559
Speaker 1: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

1078
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:37,679
Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart radio,

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01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:40,679
Speaker 1: visit the i heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:42,040
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.