1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: Heads up, this series contains graphic descriptions of violence. Thats 2 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: why by Kob will be charged as per your international 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 1: plan to continue. 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 2: Please hold. 5 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: After several of my emails to journalist Tom Mangold went unanswered, 6 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 1: I found his phone number and gave him a call 7 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: in March of twenty twenty five. Hi is this Tom Mangold? 8 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: I tell him I'm a journalist working on the Jessica 9 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: Current case. Yes, sir, so you did a series of 10 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: stories about it. I say I'm covering how the prosecution's 11 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: case against Quincy Cross seems to be falling apart, and 12 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: that according to emails my team and I have reviewed, 13 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: it's clear he knew that the state's main witness, Victoria Caldwell, 14 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 1: had recanted parts of the story against Quincy Cross, yet 15 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: he still chose to publish his final piece without any 16 00:00:55,000 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: mention of her changing narratives and admitted lies. He tells 17 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: me he hasn't seen my emails. 18 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 3: Thank you so much, sir. 19 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 1: Bye. Tom Mangold did write back shortly after we hung. 20 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 4: Up, so he emails, Yeah, I have a credit. 21 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: I'm me to folk in my computer and I called 22 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: up my producer Rebecca with the update. 23 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 4: What does he say? 24 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 5: The email says, Maggie, thanks for your note. The Quincy 25 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 5: Cross is Innocent movement in quotes has been running in 26 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 5: Mayfield for many years. People have jumped on and off 27 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 5: that bandwagon ever since Susan received her reward from the 28 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 5: State of Kentucky. I suggest you take the time and 29 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,479 Speaker 5: trouble to discuss the case with Bob O'Neil first, then 30 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 5: go and get the transcripts of the court case and 31 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 5: read the entire prosecution case. If you sol think Cross 32 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 5: is innocent, that's your conclusion. 33 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: As a journal Okay, Bob O'Neil is the KBI agent 34 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: who is still in touch with Victoria and who declined 35 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: my interview request. I replied to Tom and tell him 36 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: I actually found his suggestion that I hadn't read all 37 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: the documents patronizing, and then I offer him the opportunity 38 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: to reflect on his work twenty years later, to which 39 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: he shoots back. 40 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 6: Any publication or broadcast in the United States which infers 41 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 6: I may have behaved unprofessionally in the current murder will 42 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 6: of course be instantly sued for both libel, both myself 43 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 6: and the BBC. Now, please, yet, don't pester me any further. 44 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 6: All you batty conspiracy theorists are the same. 45 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: When I was first approached with Quincy Cross's case, many 46 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: of the people fighting on his behalf told me that 47 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: Susan Galbreath had played a key role in Quincy's conviction, 48 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: that an everyday citizen helped craft the theory the prosecution 49 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: used at trial and helped find their most important witness. 50 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,839 Speaker 1: And by Tom Mangled's own reporting, he played a big 51 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: role in Susan's journey from his very first trip to Kentucky. 52 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 7: We use my room at the somewhat humble Mayfield Super 53 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 7: eight motel as an office. We lived off toxic coffee, 54 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 7: fried food, and some smuggled in Sauvignon Blanc. I became 55 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 7: her news editor. She became my trainee cub reporter. I 56 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 7: taught her my trade from the bottom up. 57 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 8: I learned quite a bit from him. I learned how 58 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 8: to not follow every rumor. I learned better from him 59 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 8: how to distinguish rumor from fact. But it was a 60 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 8: hard call in this case. We started a friendship and 61 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 8: we became a team, and I felt an equal part 62 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 8: of that team. 63 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: Tom spoke publicly about how there was a lot of 64 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: interest in making a movie about the odd couple who 65 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: helped solve a murder, and according to the emails obtained 66 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: by the Kentucky Innocent Project, Tom was pursuing a movie 67 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: deal until at least twenty eighteen. When Susan Golbreeth died. 68 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: That year, her sister took over her estate for a 69 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: few months. She wrote Tom about Susan's last days and 70 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: about business. She talked about handling any future film deals, 71 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: and Tom told Susan's sister that he would fight to 72 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: keep the project alive, but eventually studios lost interest. That 73 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: was probably for the best, because knowing what we know today, 74 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: it's fair to say they got this whole murder story wrong. 75 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: Tom is ninety years old now. He's had a storied 76 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,679 Speaker 1: career as a war correspondent, an investigative journalist. He's faced 77 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: down known gangsters and heads of state. I'm not looking 78 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: to drag his life's work in the mud, but the 79 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: story of Quincy Cross as the ringleader in this heinous 80 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: crime is timply not born out by the evidence, and 81 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: the main witnesses to this alleged crime are now all 82 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: on the record saying they lied. Perhaps none of this 83 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: is enough for Tom Mangel to say Quincy Cross shouldn't 84 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: be in prison, But if he had agreed to talk 85 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: to me, I would have asked him, shouldn't it take 86 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: more than the word of a few girls or the 87 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: theories of an amateur sleuth for a journalist to make 88 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: such ruinous accusations against everyday citizens. Shouldn't it take more 89 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: for the state to put a man in prison for life, 90 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 1: to take a mother from her children and a father 91 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: from his family. How far are cops and prosecutors allowed 92 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: to go in their pursuit of justice? And who do 93 00:05:54,680 --> 00:06:05,239 Speaker 1: we hold accountable when their whole case falls apart? These 94 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: are questions that Tom refuses to answer, but that Jeff Burton, 95 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 1: Tamra Caldwell, and Quincy Cross live with every day. 96 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 9: For me personally, from two thousand and seven and until now, 97 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 9: this whole thing is my whole life's been like an 98 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 9: everybody experience. I can't even explain, like an emotional fucking 99 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 9: wreck that I have not been able to overcome. 100 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 10: No, my trust in people is. 101 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 11: Like a loved one. 102 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 10: Now I don't trust anybody. I don't trust nobody really, 103 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 10: you know, since. 104 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 12: I've been incarcerated, you know, I've been further educating myself 105 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 12: on different things, but what I really want to do 106 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 12: is start with family business and all take care of 107 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 12: my family. Mostly. I'm family oriented. I was raised that way, 108 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 12: so that's what hurts the most out of do in 109 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 12: prison time for something you didn't do, being away from 110 00:06:58,839 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 12: the people that you love. 111 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: And what about Tom's heroine, Susan Galbreath. According to Tom's 112 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: own reporting, she didn't get a triumphant ending. Sure she 113 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: got recognized by the Attorney General's office, but the people 114 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: of Mayfield didn't hold her up as a hero. Susan 115 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: ended up having to carry a gun for her own protection, 116 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: and she even contemplated leaving Mayfield for good, moving back 117 00:07:30,920 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: to Chicago, but she never did. This is Graves County, 118 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: chapter six, something Rotten. Before telling you what the future 119 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: may hold for Quincy Cross, I'd like to take you 120 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,959 Speaker 1: back one last time to the summer of two thousand 121 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: in Mayfield, Kentucky, because even though I never set out 122 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:03,359 Speaker 1: to solve Jessica's case, I wanted to at least understand 123 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: how the investigation went so wrong. And in trying to 124 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: answer that question, believe it or not, I found a 125 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: common line of reporting with journalist Tom Mangled. Tom didn't 126 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: just zero in on Quincy Cross. He also went after 127 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: Mayfield law enforcement. Earlier in the season, you heard about 128 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: Tim Fortner, the rookie Mayfield police detective who led and 129 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: bungled the first investigation into Jessica's death. He's the man who, 130 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: according to Jessica's father, said this to his family. 131 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 13: Told us me and my wife did he had no 132 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 13: clue what he was doing. He didn't know what he 133 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 13: was doing. 134 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: But Joe Kern says Fortner didn't just admit incompetence. He 135 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: went on to imply that he'd been set up to fail. 136 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 13: He said, I don't know what i'd been with place 137 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 13: I go. It's like somebody's already been there before me. 138 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 13: That's his words. So before his four tenure ended, they 139 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 13: promoted him to assistant chief. And when he saw my 140 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 13: wife at Walmart, he saw her and he started crying 141 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 13: and he said, I'm afraid for my wife. And he said, 142 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 13: I'm gonna move, and he moved to Murray. He moved 143 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 13: a few miles down the road to another place. 144 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 11: And got a job there. 145 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: What do you think he was afraid of? 146 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 13: I don't know who you're afraid of When you're a 147 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 13: police chief and have a badge and a gun. 148 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 11: I don't know who. 149 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 13: You're afraid of. 150 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 11: How could you be afraid? 151 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: From what I've been able to gather, one of the 152 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: people Fortner was afraid of was the assistant chief of 153 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: police at the time of Jessica's death, Ronnie Lear. Ronnie 154 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: Leir was the man who appointed Tim Fortner as lead 155 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 1: detective in the case. Even though Fortner didn't know the 156 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 1: first thing about investigating a homicide, and even though Fortner 157 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: declined my interview request, I do have him on tape 158 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: talking about his disdain for his former boss. 159 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 14: What's your opinion of Ronnie Leary right now? 160 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: This is from a two thousand and seven interview with 161 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 1: the Kentucky Breau of Investigation or KBI. 162 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 15: My opinion of Ronnie is that he's which it's the 163 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 15: same opinion as it has been, that he's the son 164 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 15: of a itch for even giveness to me, because it's 165 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 15: been a total nightmare and I've just never done anything 166 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 15: such as investigated anything like, especially this. 167 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: Horrendous Why wouldn't the assistant chief of police set this 168 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: case up for success? It was Mayfield's first murder in 169 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 1: more than a year. Jessica was a teenager, a new mom. 170 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: When Lear knew Jessica's family, he came up in Mayfield 171 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: with Joe Curran. 172 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 13: Actually we had been playing basketball together a year or 173 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 13: so before all of this, and he knew me. He 174 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 13: knew me for a long time. And I worked at 175 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 13: the fire department, he worked at the police department, and 176 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 13: we kind of, you know, see cases together and a 177 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 13: lot of times. 178 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 11: They go to it. 179 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: From the second I started investigating this case, I've heard 180 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: Ronnie Lear's name, like in one of my first interviews 181 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: with private investigator Nobel Faulkner. 182 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 16: Let me tell you something, these police around here are 183 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 16: so corrupt it's not even funny. 184 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: And Tamra Caledwell, I've been here in his name, and 185 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: ever since we got to Makefield in ninety three, everybody 186 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: was scared to talk about him. 187 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 7: Scared, you know, everybody brought up his name. 188 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: He was just known to be corrupt. Ronnie Lear is 189 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: mentioned in records about the case from the Kentucky State 190 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 1: Police and even the Kentucky Bureau of Investigation. Mostly people 191 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 1: were saying he's crooked or worse. That's what Tim Fortner 192 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: told the KBI in two thousand and seven. 193 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 15: And I don't know how. It's just my good feeling, 194 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 15: but I just feel luck in some way. And I'll 195 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 15: say it from from a long time that he's involved 196 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 15: in it. I've told him a why. 197 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,719 Speaker 14: They're involved in this case, yes, because Mark guess there. 198 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 1: Especially why would Tim Fortner believe that. 199 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 17: You know still emotionally is a red hot case in Mayfield. 200 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: Michael Grice served a very short stint as chief for 201 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: the Mayfield Police Department from two thousand and four to 202 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: two thousand and five, years after Ronnie Lear's tenure. Mayfield 203 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: officials hired Grice after searching the country for months. He 204 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: was a law enforcement veteran from Illinois with almost two 205 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: decades of experience. He had legitimacy Mayfield police desperately needed, 206 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: especially after the failure with the Jessica Current investigation. 207 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 17: When I started there, that was a past issue that 208 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 17: nobody would talk about, and anybody that had anything to 209 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 17: do with it denied having anything to do with it. 210 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 17: It was over time that I got some people to 211 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 17: tell me, oh, yeah, I was there that night, or 212 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 17: or I did this, or I did that, But they 213 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 17: don't want to admit anything to do with the investigation. 214 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 17: They didn't want to admit to having any part of 215 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 17: the case itself. Why because it turned into such a shambles. 216 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: After Mayfield detectives bungled the case, Gryce says, the town 217 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: was a buzz with rumors of a police cover up. 218 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: He spoke to my producer Rebecca. 219 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 17: There was all kinds of stories going round at the time, 220 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 17: and just nothing good. Nothing good for the Mayfield. 221 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: Police Department who was telling Bee's stories general. 222 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 17: Public, you know, just not people in the field. You know, 223 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 17: people would say I heard that. I said, oh, yeah, 224 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 17: where did you hear that? Well, you know, my cousin's 225 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 17: friend's uncle. You know, you get down the line of things, 226 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 17: and there's no finite source that could ever be located 227 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 17: to say yeah, that's true. 228 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: In listening back to old police interviews from Jessica's case, 229 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: there was a sense around town that the cops had 230 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: something to do with her death. 231 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 10: Somebody saying it's a police sent them don't work because 232 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 10: somehow knows. 233 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 3: But mostly it was about that the cops was involved 234 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 3: in it, and she was missing with one of the cops. 235 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 17: They got a pregnant there's something in this town, somebody 236 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 17: knows and people are afraid to talk. 237 00:15:54,800 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: I don't know why, but I might know why. The 238 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: top brass of Mayfield law enforcement had a reputation. People 239 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: said they were involved in illegal dealings with some of 240 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: the local drug runners. There were whispers that they sexually 241 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: harassed local women and teens. Jessica, on the other hand, 242 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: was dating a known drug dealer, and there were rumors 243 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: that she was a drug informant, though that was later refuted. 244 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: From what I can piece together, people took this information 245 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: and let their imaginations fill in the blanks. And it 246 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: didn't help that some of the rumors against the cops, 247 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: including Ronnie Lear, turned out to be true. Sometime after 248 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: Jessica's murder, Ronnie Lear was suspended without pay for selling 249 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: a VCR and stereo from the evidence room and pocketing 250 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: the money. A dispatcher at the precinct had also claimed 251 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: that Lear and one of his colleagues were misused zing 252 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: city funds, including money confiscated from drug arrests. The same 253 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: dispatcher also claimed that Lear had coerced her into a 254 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 1: sexual encounter and then threatened her to stay silent. Then, 255 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: several months after Jessica's death, Lear resigned. He told the 256 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: press that he was leaving because his heart just wasn't 257 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: in the job anymore. But the Mayfield mayor at the time, 258 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: Wayne Potts, said Ronnie Lear tendered his resignation shortly after 259 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: Potts confronted him about the dispatcher's sexual harassment claims. And 260 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: when officers cleared Lear's desk they found around eighty baggies 261 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: and foils of suspected crack cocaine, a few bags of 262 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: suspected marijuana, and handguns that weren't police weapons or registered 263 00:17:54,359 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: into evidence. And all this malfeasance raised red flags for 264 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 1: Tom Mangled too. 265 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 7: Half the top echelon of Mayfield Police that imploded with 266 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 7: grubby little fiddles and corrupt practices. 267 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: But it got worse for Lea mayor. Potts died in 268 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, but Tom spoke to him a few years 269 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: before about Lear's reputation and the drugs in his desk. 270 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 14: My guess would be that he had taken them away 271 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 14: from some of the street runners and said, hey, you 272 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 14: know you got drugs. I'm gonna put you in jail 273 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 14: for five years, or give me that bag of drugs 274 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 14: and you hit the road, run and don't ever come back. 275 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: Lear claimed that he was using the confiscated material for 276 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 1: show and tell visits in the public schools, but Mayor 277 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: Potts said he didn't buy it. 278 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 14: That's enough drugs to do half of Mayfield. The state 279 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 14: police sent a special investigator in. He had worked with 280 00:18:55,240 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 14: drug investigations for years. He got into the accounting the 281 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 14: money and he found where there was thousands of dollars taken. 282 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 1: Lear and his boss, the Mayfield Chief of Police, were 283 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: eventually indicted on felony charges of misusing public funds, but 284 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: Lear cut a deal with prosecutors. He didn't get prison time, 285 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: and because he stayed out of trouble for a few years, 286 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: the felony has been erased from his permanent record. That 287 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: means nosey journalists like me and Tom will never get 288 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: the full story on the extent of his malfeasance. When 289 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: Lear left his job as assistant chief of police, he 290 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: apologized to the community, paid some of the money back, 291 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: and eventually moved to Alabama. He left law enforcement altogether 292 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: and got a job at an insurance company. But Ronnie 293 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: Lear's presence and the failures under his leadership lingered on 294 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 1: in Jessica's case. When the Kentucky State Police took over 295 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: the investigation, they actually asked Ronni Lear if he ever 296 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: concealed information or was in any way connected to Jessica's death. 297 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 1: Ronni Lear denied any involvement. He even agreed to take 298 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: a polygraph, but that appears to never have happened. 299 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 4: Okay, so we got a big fox in the mail. 300 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 1: Rebecca and I requested Ronnie Lear's personnel file from ninety 301 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: seven to two thousand and three. Maybe we'd find a 302 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:52,959 Speaker 1: smoking gun connecting leir to Jessica. Lear joined Mayfield Police 303 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety and worked his way to assistant chief 304 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: after a stint with the Army National Guard. 305 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,959 Speaker 4: Is six' to, two brown, hair blue. Eyes he's got 306 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 4: a high school degree and an. 307 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 1: Associates he's married with, kids a, churchgoer. 308 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 4: Member Of rotary, club president Of mayfield And Graves county 309 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 4: Child advocacy. 310 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: Program there's a lot of everyday paperwork in the. Box 311 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: this is a. Payroll there are for seats for, travel, 312 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:28,199 Speaker 1: reimbursements certificates of completion from courses like leadership for The New, 313 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: century insurance. Documents there's record of his disciplinary hearings that 314 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 1: match up with what has been reported in the, press 315 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: like stealing A dcr from the evidence room and a 316 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: spattering of complaints going back to ninety. Seven but what 317 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: catches our eye is what isn't There no mention of 318 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: the piles of drugs reportedly confiscated from his, desk or 319 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: the reported sexual harassment claim against, him and no mention Of. 320 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: Jessica the Allegations i've heard Against Ronnie lear go beyond 321 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: misuse of funds and stealing, evidence yet many of them 322 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: have been made by the same unreliable witnesses that first 323 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: Implicated Jeremy adams and the murder and Then Quincy. Cross 324 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: according to the emails obtained by The Kentucky Innocence, Project 325 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 1: Victoria caldwell made a formal complaint Against lear to The 326 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: Attorney general's, office And Tom mangled followed up on our 327 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 1: claims to no. Avail The AG's office eventually told him 328 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: That victoria dropped the, complaint And tom did not Publish victoria's. 329 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: Claims we've reached out to The Kentucky Attorney general and 330 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: The Kentucky State police for any records they may have On, 331 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: lear hoping to confirm any further allegations of, misconduct but 332 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: they either don't have them or haven't made them available to, 333 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: us And Ronnie lear hasn't agreed to an. 334 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:11,879 Speaker 7: Interview casefully, Solved SOMETIMES i wonder whether there's still something 335 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 7: rotten In. 336 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: Mayfield In tom's final, piece broadcast in twenty, Twelve tom 337 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: says he was left with the sense that something was 338 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: rotten In, mayfield even if he could never get to 339 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: the bottom of. It i've grappled with all of this 340 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: in my many calls with my trusted, Source daryl Woman. 341 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 17: Lear From Jump. 342 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 18: Straight that's ALL i heard Was, Lear Lear, lear AND 343 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 18: i was, like. 344 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 11: Okay but. 345 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 19: Everyone has tried to make it an app like that 346 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 19: there he's the wizard brought in the, curtain AND i 347 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 19: don't believe. 348 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 3: It what if all of this shit About Ronnie lear 349 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 3: is just made? 350 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: Up like what if this is all just rumor just a, 351 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: Rumor like. 352 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 18: That's WHY i told, You like gossip is the gospel 353 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 18: in Theath baby year all and so everyone personal long 354 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 18: has told themselves the same story and the same story 355 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 18: and the same. Story this is a crime that wasn't 356 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 18: meant to be. 357 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 1: Solved And Joe curran has had to reckon with these 358 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: rumors surrounding his daughter's. Death do you think he could be? 359 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:29,239 Speaker 13: Involved most people THAT i talk to that's around here 360 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 13: feel like he, Is. 361 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 11: BUT i don't. 362 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: Know my team AND i have gone back and forth 363 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: on whether to present the details of these. Allegations but 364 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 1: if there's something that has been made clear in my 365 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: reporting of this case is that the stories we tell 366 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: matter in our, communities in the, courts and in the. 367 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: Press there's a danger in trying to write a neat 368 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: ending for a murder case, that in many ways seems so, 369 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: senseless and the need to find someone to blame can 370 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: come at a great cost to the lives of people 371 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: Like Tammra, Caldwell Jeff, burton And Quincy. Cross but WHAT 372 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: i do know is that the incompetence and corruption From 373 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: Ronnie lear and his police department tainted the investigation Into 374 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: jessica's death from the. Start it added to the countless 375 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: allegations that law enforcement had to parse through in order 376 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: to separate fact from. Fiction it bred mistrust around, town 377 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: leaving the doors wide open for someone Like Susan galbreath 378 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,640 Speaker 1: to come in and test her, theories and it meant 379 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: prosecutors under pressure to close an eight year old, case 380 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: pushed to get a conviction at all, costs ignoring the 381 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: fact that the truth may actually be impossible to. Find 382 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: and so after twenty five years of looking for, Answers 383 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: Joe kurrn has, none just daily reminders of the void 384 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 1: his daughter's death has left in his. Life how do 385 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: you feel, now you survive, it you never get over. 386 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 18: It. 387 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 13: Now don't let nobody ever tell you you get, closure 388 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 13: because you'll always miss a person like that the rest 389 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 13: of your. Life there's no such thying as. 390 00:26:33,640 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: Closure more after the, BREAK i end this investigation with 391 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: more questions than answers about who may have Killed Jessica 392 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: curran and. Why but my goal was to find out 393 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: if there was any truth To, Tamra jeff And quincy's 394 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: claims of. Innocence AND i THINK i could say with certainty, 395 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: that based on all the Evidence i've presented to YOU 396 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: i do not believe they're guilty of the crime the 397 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: prosecution accused and convicted them. Of Still quincy lingers in. 398 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: Prison getting out has been a slow moving, fight riddled with. 399 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: Setbacks in late twenty twenty, Four Miranda Hellman quincy's attorney 400 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: left The Kentucky Innocence. 401 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:53,919 Speaker 3: PROJECT i, mean, okay so many, questions are you? Okay 402 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 3: so do you want the kind of quick version of the? 403 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: Story Or WHILE i was surprised for the, news the 404 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: discontent leading To miranda leaving had been building for a. 405 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: Minute miranda became frustrated by the lack of resources to 406 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: properly work her, cases big ones Like. Quincy's miranda says 407 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 1: this was further complicated by how entangled The Kentucky Innocence 408 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: project is with the state. 409 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 2: Legislature so while we have our own independent structure and 410 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 2: we don't necessarily have to answer for everything we do 411 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 2: or the cases we take or how we litigate, them 412 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 2: we're completely funded by the. State so what legislators see 413 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 2: and what judges, see and what people with power see 414 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 2: matters when we ask for. 415 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: Money it especially matters when people Like miranda are accusing 416 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: top law, enforcement like the prosecutors who Tried quincy's case of. 417 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 2: Malfeasance they see that someone that they signed off on 418 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:04,479 Speaker 2: a salary is saying that the prosecutors at the highest 419 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 2: level are committing perjury and committing felonies and are putting 420 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 2: people in prison and lying about why they put them, 421 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 2: There and so at the end of the, day my 422 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 2: boss's boss's boss's boss has to answer to, that either 423 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 2: publicly at a legislative hearing or just in an informal 424 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 2: meeting where they're sitting there talking to the heads of 425 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 2: these other departments. 426 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: Like The department Of corrections or The Kentucky State, police 427 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: which are all run under the same umbrella as The 428 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: Kentucky Innocence. Project and While miranda is never told point 429 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: blank to drop her, accusations she says the funding for 430 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: her cases slowly. 431 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 2: Dwindled they start taking your purse strings, away they start 432 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 2: taking your positions. Away we haven't had an investigator in 433 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,239 Speaker 2: nearly a. Year you, know as they start taking your, 434 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 2: resources there's just nothing that you can. 435 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: Do it makes the uphill battle of proving a wrongful 436 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: conviction even. Steeper but even Without, Miranda quincy's case carries, 437 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: on and The Kentucky Innocence project is still fighting to 438 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: get his conviction. Overturned in early twenty twenty, Five quincy's 439 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: new attorney got results from ink testing on the diary 440 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: That victoria read from at. Trial the diary the prosecutors 441 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: used as evidence that she had been an accomplice to 442 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: the crime and That victoria later said was. Fake the 443 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: results aren't a slam dunk, yet but they're. Promising according 444 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: to an affidavit from a forensic chemist of over twenty, 445 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: years there is no evidence that the ink used to 446 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: write the key diary entries read at trial was available 447 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: for use before two thousand and, seven years After jessica's. 448 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: Death this same, expert who currently serves with The department 449 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: Of Homeland, security was actually called as a witness at 450 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: the first trial by the, prosecution but now is working 451 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: With quincy's defense. Team THEN dna test results came in 452 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: from hairs found On jessica's body at, autopsy which hadn't 453 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: been previously, tested and the results completely Exclude, Quincy tamra 454 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: Or jeff from all testing. Done this means nothing forensically 455 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: tested from the scene at the middle school or From 456 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: jessica's body, itself has ever Linked, Quincy tamra Or jeff 457 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: to the. Crime there's no. 458 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 16: Evidence there's no physical evidence that Put quincy nowhere near this. 459 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: Girl none of this comes as a surprise To quincy's, 460 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: Dad David, cross. 461 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 16: And the other people they didn't know each. Other i've 462 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 16: never heard of. Such i'm seventy years AND i Don't 463 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 16: i've never heard of three people that didn't know each 464 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 16: other get convicted of a hainus crime like. 465 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: This and none of this comes as a surprise To. Quincy. 466 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 12: WELL i knew they ain't really have nothing on, me 467 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 12: SO i ain't really the. Move i'm feeling the same 468 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 12: WAY i always. FEEL i ain't, ever you, KNOW i 469 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 12: ain't committed the. Crime so it's just something glad that 470 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 12: the truth is. 471 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 16: Coming, out you know What i'm. 472 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 12: Saying it does me some good my heart to know, 473 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,479 Speaker 12: that you, know a lot of things that they were 474 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 12: saying was just lying to put in front. 475 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: Of a Junny quincy has had a lot of time 476 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: to think about what and who landed him behind. Bars 477 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: but when it comes To Venetia's Double fields And Victoria, 478 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: Caldwell quincy, says there's no ill. 479 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 12: Will i'm being keens at the. Time she you, KNOW 480 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 12: i don't hold no goods with. Them it's just it's 481 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 12: the people that. 482 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 4: They told to last. 483 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 12: For it's What i'm having a problem, with you know 484 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 12: What i'm, Saying i'm having with the state Of. 485 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: Kentucky quincy's attorneys have presented all their findings in, court 486 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: and now he waits for the same judicial system that 487 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: put him behind bars to decide if he deserves a 488 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: second chance at proving his. Innocence And quincy's loved, ones Including, 489 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: dara wait with. 490 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 19: HIM i believe that he is innocent with my whole. 491 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 19: Art if, SO i would have left y'all and everybody 492 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 19: else the fuck ALONE a long time. Ago i'm ready 493 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 19: to move all with my, life BUT i Can i'm 494 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 19: going to love this family too, much and regardless of 495 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 19: his innocence or, guilt he didn't have a fair. Trial 496 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 19: and that's WHAT i stand behind is if we don't 497 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 19: have a correct judicial, system then we have nothing at. 498 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: Anarchy And dara waits because she says she's honor bound 499 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: To David. 500 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 19: Cross, david whenever we originally got in, TOUCH i was, 501 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,839 Speaker 19: LIKE i promise you and offer you nothing at all 502 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 19: except for maybe a little bit of hope and persistence 503 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:23,279 Speaker 19: and a lot of fun. Personality that's. It that's ALL i, 504 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 19: offer and the fact THAT i won't quit until we 505 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 19: get to the. End whatever the end looks. LIKE i 506 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 19: have no fucking, clue But i'm not going, anywhere AND 507 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 19: i got. You and that's what my family. Says as 508 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 19: opposed TO i love, you we obvious SAY i got, 509 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 19: You and to, me that's the most important thing. 510 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 11: IS i got. 511 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: Them tamra And jeff have both been out of prison 512 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: for more than a, decade but their convictions hang over 513 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:05,839 Speaker 1: them every, day souring their. Freedom Jeff burton works at 514 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: his family, cafe serving chicken casseroles And western omelets alongside his. 515 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 11: Mom so, yes it's the greatest. Woman it, truly truly. 516 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: Is getting a good job with a serious felony, conviction 517 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: or even getting a job at, all is nearly. Impossible 518 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 1: this is a. 519 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 11: Blessing it really truly, is BECAUSE i mean it is 520 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 11: hard to get his. 521 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: Job Before jeff got caught up in this, case he 522 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: was a young husband and a dad of. 523 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 11: THREE i was straight and. NARROW i wasn't doing. NOTHING 524 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 11: i was trying to be a. 525 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: Good, father getting his life in, order. 526 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 11: Trying to be a family. Man just trying to do. 527 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 11: That that's ALL i really focused. On make sure the 528 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 11: kids had to create Good christmas or stuff like. 529 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: That But jeff's marriage didn't survive his prison, sentence and 530 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: as he's talking about that, time his hands get shaky 531 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: and his voice, quivers BECAUSE i, mean, man this. 532 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 11: Shit really fucked my life. Up it really. Did and 533 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 11: uh you, KNOW i was in prison like seven years 534 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 11: and it really. Did it ruined my. Life so that's 535 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 11: WHY i get all and all because some girls. 536 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,320 Speaker 9: Lied there's no nothing to prove anything except for they, 537 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 9: said and that's. 538 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 1: Bullshit Like, Quincy jeff's family has stood by him all. 539 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 9: Along they sacrificed a lot WHEN i was in the, 540 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 9: penitentiary especially his. Mom you, know she'd always come see 541 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 9: me if my ex wife and kids can come or 542 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,919 Speaker 9: Make she'd make SURE i had to miss, it kept 543 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 9: money on the, phone, everything you know WHAT i. 544 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 11: Mean she was, there, man so Which i've always been 545 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 11: pretty close to my. 546 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:51,439 Speaker 1: Mama tamera also struggles with life after. 547 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,879 Speaker 20: Prison if you go back to two thousand and, six 548 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 20: two thousand and five and you never got wrapped up in, 549 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 20: this what do you think your life would be like? 550 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 10: TODAY i wouldn't be in May fore you, yep. YEP 551 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:12,359 Speaker 10: i sure wouldn't be In kentucky, shere. 552 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 1: Wouldn't tamara has had a hard time getting a job 553 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 1: because of her, Conviction but Like. Jeff she's got. Support 554 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 1: today at forty, five she cleans and paints houses for 555 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: a friend's. Company mainly the projects they have the. 556 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 10: Authorities, okay, yes mainly when they move, OUT i clean 557 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 10: them first and THEN i paint. 558 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,240 Speaker 1: Them she's close with her, Mom, brenda and her. Children 559 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,479 Speaker 1: the last TIME i Visited tamra Was december twenty twenty 560 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: four and they were getting ready For. Christmas they always. 561 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 11: Want me to. 562 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 1: Cook they a sweet. Potatoes, oh you're making the sweet. 563 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 3: Potatoes. 564 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: Yes it's a simple, life a good and honest. One 565 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 1: but If tamra could have written her own, ending she, 566 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: says maybe she would have gone back to school after 567 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: her three kids were. Grown she would have liked to 568 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:12,319 Speaker 1: be a nurse or a weather. Person but despite all 569 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: she's been, Through tamra has told me a few times 570 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: that she's. 571 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 20: Lucky even though you had five and a half years 572 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,399 Speaker 20: of your life taken, away you still think you're. 573 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 1: Lucky, yep, yep sure. 574 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,440 Speaker 11: Do i'm here for a. 575 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 10: Reason he ain't through with me. 576 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 17: Yet he's not through with me. 577 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 1: Yet quincy's, Dad, david shares this, Sentiment there ever a 578 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:45,360 Speaker 1: time during this last decade that you've lost hope at. 579 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 11: All, no, no, no, WELL i. 580 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:54,359 Speaker 16: CAN'T i can't imagine losing. HOPE i have to think 581 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 16: that something good is gonna come out of. This his 582 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 16: life is worth if worth, That if it's not, worth 583 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 16: nothing else is worth something good coming out of. It, 584 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 16: NO i can't imagine losing. 585 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,799 Speaker 1: Hope But david seems to have whethered SINCE i first 586 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 1: met him in twenty twenty. Three he's grown older waiting 587 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 1: for his, son and the last time we spoke in, 588 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:21,759 Speaker 1: person the reality of that was on his. Mind the 589 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 1: only FEAR i got THAT. 590 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,360 Speaker 16: I won't live to See quincy walk out of. 591 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 11: Prison that's my only fear in, life you, know that's my. 592 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:40,800 Speaker 1: Goal until he's free. Again quincy's family lives on hope 593 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 1: and memories do it on so. Serious WHEN i first 594 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 1: Met quincy's, family his Sister rochelle was. There she's one 595 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,320 Speaker 1: Of quincy's six, sisters and she was beaming at the 596 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,359 Speaker 1: chance to tell the world about her, brother about their 597 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,879 Speaker 1: childhood running free in Rural. Tennessee we you, know we're 598 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 1: from The. 599 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:09,840 Speaker 12: South So grandma's backyard was the, playground, trees, swings jumping. 600 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,880 Speaker 1: DITCHES i Think rochelle remembers we can dance parties in 601 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: a house full of. Kids in. Life we enjoyed, It we. 602 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 4: Loved we was a family that loved to get together 603 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,799 Speaker 4: On saturday mornings and just get in the living room 604 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 4: and just dance and have fun and cut. 605 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 17: Up that was our. 606 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 4: THING mtv reps was on And i'm gonna tell you. 607 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 1: Something quincy. 608 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 13: E Pop lock great. 609 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 4: Dance it would turn his head and you, know we 610 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,359 Speaker 4: couldn't do. That like what kind of music were? 611 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:44,240 Speaker 1: Doing quincy was Her ride Or Die rochelle'so's. 612 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 3: Whatever it came to. 613 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,239 Speaker 1: Be quincy was. THERE i need a babysitter BECAUSE i 614 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 1: want to go to the. 615 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 4: Club quincy was. There this type people we, are you, 616 00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,400 Speaker 4: know we come from, nothing. 617 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:01,319 Speaker 17: But we had. 618 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:14,040 Speaker 1: Love this Year quincy turned forty, nine another birthday away from, 619 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 1: home nineteen of. Them one Day quincy would like to 620 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 1: Leave kentucky move back To. TENNESSEE i picture him on 621 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 1: the porch of his childhood, home sitting next to his, 622 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,920 Speaker 1: father all quiet and still except for the sound of 623 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,800 Speaker 1: cicadas and the occasional laughter of his nieces and nephews running, 624 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:40,200 Speaker 1: by playing with, tadpoles just like he used to years 625 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: ago in those very same. Fields but for, Now quincy 626 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 1: is content that you got to hear his. 627 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,400 Speaker 17: STORY i want the world to see AND i want 628 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 17: them to look at the fag that. 629 00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,880 Speaker 12: AGAIN i want them to look at everything about this, 630 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 12: case because you, Know i'd have been through some heale 631 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,279 Speaker 12: trying to get the truth, out and now THAT i 632 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,800 Speaker 12: got an opportunity to get it, out it makes everything 633 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 12: a whole lot. Better, yeah it makes it makes everything 634 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,880 Speaker 12: a whole lot better for. Me that's WHAT i want the. 635 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:17,480 Speaker 19: World thank. 636 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 10: You Forducing Securist Goodbye. 637 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 1: Graves county is a production Of lava For good in 638 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,600 Speaker 1: association With Signal Company Number. One this show is written 639 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,400 Speaker 1: and produced by Me Maggie freeling and senior Producer Rebecca. 640 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 1: Ibarra Jason, Flamm Jeff kempler And Kevin burtis are executive. 641 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:54,160 Speaker 1: Producers our editor Is Martina Abraham's. Ilunga Dannia suleman is 642 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 1: our fact. Checker sound design and mixing By Joe. Plored 643 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 1: music created By. Wrench our theme song is the gangsta 644 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 1: grass version of The One Who's holding The star By 645 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:09,200 Speaker 1: Leo schofield And Kevin. Herrick Darrel wooman is investigative. Producer 646 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 1: our head of marketing And operations Is Jeff. Cliburn Is 647 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,240 Speaker 1: Many guaderama is our social media, director and our Social 648 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,320 Speaker 1: media manager Is Sarah. Gibbons Andrew nelson Is art, director 649 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,760 Speaker 1: with additional production help From Jackie, Pauley Kara kornhaber And Kathleen. 650 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,680 Speaker 1: Fink be sure to follow us On, instagram, TikTok facebook 651 00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,320 Speaker 1: and threads At lava For good and follow me At Maggie. 652 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,719 Speaker 1: Freeling and we know there's a lot of names for 653 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,000 Speaker 1: you to keep up with in this, series so for 654 00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,480 Speaker 1: a detailed list of, characters please go to our show. 655 00:43:41,560 --> 00:44:07,120 Speaker 1: Notes pay. 656 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 11: A Handy. 657 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:23,400 Speaker 17: Gold handy by bad 658 00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:29,160 Speaker 1: He