1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,440
Speaker 1: So we joined up with the Trump brothers. Eric Trump

2
00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,680
Speaker 1: joined as a co founder, chief strategy officer. Donald Trum

3
00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,200
Speaker 1: Junior came in as an investor and advisor to really

4
00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:10,799
Speaker 1: create that distinct American brand in the bitcoin space.

5
00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:13,640
Speaker 2: It's interesting sort of where we see bitcoin ad and

6
00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,400
Speaker 2: why billionaire real estate developers seem to be abandoning the

7
00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,040
Speaker 2: real estate and coming over to bitcoin.

8
00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,400
Speaker 1: It's a heck of a lot less work to accumulate

9
00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,160
Speaker 1: bitcoin than it is to build enormous hotels and golf

10
00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:25,799
Speaker 1: course developments.

11
00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:27,920
Speaker 2: You have President of the Free World, you know, Donald Trump,

12
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,480
Speaker 2: buying bitcoin and the Trump family buying bitcoin, and then

13
00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:32,760
Speaker 2: you still have like your cousin down the street telling

14
00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:33,639
Speaker 2: you it's like a scam.

15
00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,600
Speaker 1: What bitcoin is offering is a much easier way to

16
00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,800
Speaker 1: store value and store the efforts of your labor into

17
00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,479
Speaker 1: a commodity that, over time is becoming more and more valuable.

18
00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,159
Speaker 2: How do you approach thinking about building out the infrastructure.

19
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:47,840
Speaker 3: For America with bitcoin mining?

20
00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,240
Speaker 1: There's really two kinds of infrastructure we're building out. There's

21
00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,959
Speaker 1: the physical infrastructure of the mining, and then there's the

22
00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,920
Speaker 1: financial system infrastructure that you might find with bitcoin treasuries.

23
00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,680
Speaker 2: What's their experience, like trying to build this infrastructure out right.

24
00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:00,440
Speaker 1: Now, this is something that unfortunately.

25
00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,080
Speaker 2: All right, Matt, I'm excited to dig into this day.

26
00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,200
Speaker 2: Thanks for taking the time to come and speak to me.

27
00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,080
Speaker 1: Great to be here. Excited for the discussion.

28
00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we were just talking about Texas and Austin,

29
00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,120
Speaker 2: which obviously you're headquartered there. Sort of like the bitcoin

30
00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,600
Speaker 2: mining capital of the world, I guess, but I want

31
00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:19,120
Speaker 2: to I want to kind of get understanding from you,

32
00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,039
Speaker 2: sort of how you're looking at the world right now.

33
00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,840
Speaker 2: It's pretty interesting what's happening from a macro standpoint. JP

34
00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,600
Speaker 2: Morgan is talking about this debasement trade golden bitcoin. Then

35
00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,400
Speaker 2: we have this renewed interest in building the infrastructure of

36
00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,800
Speaker 2: the United States with bitcoin mining obviously. Then there's this

37
00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,040
Speaker 2: whole sort of new trend of companies buying bitcoin of

38
00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:38,760
Speaker 2: the balance sheet and treasury. So there's a lot of

39
00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,480
Speaker 2: fun stuff I want to cover with you. But let's

40
00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:42,960
Speaker 2: just talk about for a second. Since we were just

41
00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:47,000
Speaker 2: talking about Texas, why are you in Austin. Why are

42
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,200
Speaker 2: all the bitcoin miners in Austin or in Texas? What's

43
00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:49,800
Speaker 2: going on there?

44
00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,640
Speaker 1: It's a great question. So I've been in Austin now

45
00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,920
Speaker 1: actually for five six years now, pre pre bitcoin mining.

46
00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,480
Speaker 1: Actually I moved here initially I helped build COVID testing

47
00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,640
Speaker 1: infrastructure for this state government. So we were doing at

48
00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,840
Speaker 1: the time, my partners and I a bunch of COVID

49
00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:08,240
Speaker 1: laboratory work, building big, heavy infrastructure to help support country

50
00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,359
Speaker 1: and need. And yeah, I realized how much I love

51
00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,240
Speaker 1: the dynamism here, the ability to build, the ability to grow,

52
00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,760
Speaker 1: the responsiveness of the government to making sure that private

53
00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,480
Speaker 1: enterprise can thrive. And so when the opportunity came to

54
00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,399
Speaker 1: build large scale bitcoin infrastructure with at the time US

55
00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,840
Speaker 1: Bitcoin Corp, it was a chance to seize the moment

56
00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,000
Speaker 1: and repeat a lot of that same playbook that we'd

57
00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,040
Speaker 1: crafted for a healthcare and apply that to heavy in

58
00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,360
Speaker 1: for a four bitcoin so hut eight. Our sister company

59
00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,359
Speaker 1: is actually headquartered in Miami. So in many ways, there

60
00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,880
Speaker 1: are two crypto capitals in the United States. Of the

61
00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,720
Speaker 1: New Cities, there's a there's a Miami style, a bit

62
00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,000
Speaker 1: of the sizzle, and then of course you've got Texas which.

63
00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,120
Speaker 3: Is as well. One is crypto and one's bitcoin.

64
00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:49,919
Speaker 1: Are I think you're exactly right. I think I think

65
00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:50,880
Speaker 1: Texas is the bigcoin.

66
00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:51,160
Speaker 3: Help.

67
00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So you mentioned the sister company, HUT eight,

68
00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,440
Speaker 2: so you're a spin off of HUT eight. I thought

69
00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,560
Speaker 2: HUT eight was a Canadian company, right.

70
00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,240
Speaker 1: So why don't we rewind the clock a little bit?

71
00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:03,400
Speaker 3: So?

72
00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,880
Speaker 1: US Bitcoin Corp. Was a company founded in twenty twenty.

73
00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,239
Speaker 1: I was the chief commercial officer there. With my partners

74
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,440
Speaker 1: Mike and Asher, we grew US Bitcoin Corp. To become

75
00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,720
Speaker 1: one of the largest private bitcoin mining companies in the

76
00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,080
Speaker 1: United States. Several years later, we decided to merge that

77
00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,600
Speaker 1: company into HUT eight. It was a great partnership. The

78
00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:24,959
Speaker 1: HUT eight team, which was Canadian, had a great bitcoin hoddle,

79
00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,400
Speaker 1: which is over a billion dollars worth a bitcoin. Still

80
00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,480
Speaker 1: have that on the balance sheet, great cabern markets, good

81
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,240
Speaker 1: brand name, and a really exciting partner for what we

82
00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,000
Speaker 1: were able to bring operationally. So we merged with them

83
00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:37,720
Speaker 1: and what at the time was one of the largest

84
00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,520
Speaker 1: mergers in the history of cryptel And in that merger,

85
00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,400
Speaker 1: we reflagged the company to an American company and moved

86
00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,240
Speaker 1: the headquarters from up north in Toronto down to sunny Miami, Florida.

87
00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,080
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, So I wondered about that. Was that

88
00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,400
Speaker 2: right around the same time I believe I saw announcements,

89
00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,520
Speaker 2: you got some of the one of the Trumps, I

90
00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:56,360
Speaker 2: believe on board.

91
00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,600
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. So fast forward a bit. We'd already

92
00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,440
Speaker 1: merged USBGC into hot Eate and created sort of a

93
00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:07,360
Speaker 1: more key publicly traded bitcoin and energy infrastructure company. But

94
00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,640
Speaker 1: as the old expression goes, there's really only two businesses

95
00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,000
Speaker 1: in this world. There's bundling and there's unbundling. And the

96
00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,640
Speaker 1: time had come to unbundle a lot of this bigcoin

97
00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,800
Speaker 1: emphasis into a pure play brand that became American Bitcoin.

98
00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,200
Speaker 1: So we joined up with the Trump brothers. Eric Trump

99
00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,640
Speaker 1: joined as a co founder chief strategy officer. Donald Trum

100
00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,160
Speaker 1: Junior came in as an investor and advisor to really

101
00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,800
Speaker 1: create that distinct American brand in the bitcoin space.

102
00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:29,920
Speaker 3: Got it? Got it?

103
00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,080
Speaker 2: Do you still have the mining facilities up in Canada

104
00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:33,920
Speaker 2: or have they all been also moved down to the

105
00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:34,640
Speaker 2: United States.

106
00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,120
Speaker 1: We have moved the majority of our hash rate to

107
00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,600
Speaker 1: the United States. There's so much opportunity to grow here.

108
00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,760
Speaker 1: I think that the Canadian enterprise, it's good. It's been

109
00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:44,359
Speaker 1: a nice in many ways. They've joked that it's our

110
00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,120
Speaker 1: fifty first state, so we appreciate that hash rate. But

111
00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,960
Speaker 1: we've really been growing our operations here, especially in Texas

112
00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:55,120
Speaker 1: as we chase great opportunities and sort of fresh builds

113
00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:56,799
Speaker 1: for the American Bitcoin team.

114
00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, now let's talk about sort of this environment, this

115
00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,000
Speaker 2: macro environment that we're in right now with bitcoin. I

116
00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,360
Speaker 2: kind of said earlier in the sort of that intro

117
00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,480
Speaker 2: lead up that JP Morgan just sort of came out

118
00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,359
Speaker 2: with what they're calling the debasement trade, and they're saying

119
00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,440
Speaker 2: what sort of bitcoiners have been talking about for ten years,

120
00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:14,760
Speaker 2: that governm's always going to debase the currency, so we

121
00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,320
Speaker 2: should buy hard assets, gold and bitcoin. But I think

122
00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,719
Speaker 2: it's interesting specifically for you because you've brought two of

123
00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:24,320
Speaker 2: the Trump sons on to your company, and it's interesting

124
00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,640
Speaker 2: sort of where we see bitcoin ad and why billionaire

125
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,080
Speaker 2: real estate developers seem to be abandoning the real estate

126
00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,600
Speaker 2: and coming over to bitcoin, which I think is pretty interesting.

127
00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:34,960
Speaker 3: I think people should be paying attention to.

128
00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:39,040
Speaker 1: Oh, you're exactly right, So bitcoin is this really attractive

129
00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,000
Speaker 1: store value. So a lot of folks are appealed. Real

130
00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:43,680
Speaker 1: estate has a lot of appeal for folks if you

131
00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,440
Speaker 1: think about storing value and it's their nest egg, and

132
00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,880
Speaker 1: people are investing in their house and maybe some rental properties.

133
00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,039
Speaker 1: What bitcoin is offering is a much easier way to

134
00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:56,839
Speaker 1: store value and store the efforts of your labor into

135
00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,520
Speaker 1: a commodity that over time is becoming more and more valuable.

136
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,520
Speaker 1: So as people get excited about buying real estate, a

137
00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,160
Speaker 1: lot of them are realizing that whole on this might

138
00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,680
Speaker 1: actually make more sense as of bitcoin trade. And so

139
00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:08,800
Speaker 1: it's no surprise to me that a family that's so

140
00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,400
Speaker 1: steep in real estate development would see dpeel of what

141
00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,799
Speaker 1: we're doing. It's a heck of a lot less work

142
00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:18,160
Speaker 1: to accumulate bitcoin that it is to build enormous hotels

143
00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,720
Speaker 1: and golf course developments. Now, building a bitcoin mine is

144
00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:22,480
Speaker 1: quite a lot of work. So we're still putting in

145
00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:24,720
Speaker 1: the effort putting steel in the ground, but it's a

146
00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:26,760
Speaker 1: different sort of mission with a different sort of output.

147
00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,560
Speaker 2: Right. But they've been getting involved in all types of

148
00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,800
Speaker 2: bitcoin businesses, so from bitcoin treasury companies, bitcoin mining companies,

149
00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,200
Speaker 2: you know, bitcoin exchange, right, so almost like spreading their tentacles.

150
00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,400
Speaker 2: And as I said, I think I think it's worth noting,

151
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,040
Speaker 2: and that's why I wanted to bring it up. You know,

152
00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,400
Speaker 2: you still have interesting enough right where at this time

153
00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,920
Speaker 2: where you have Larry Fink, head of black Rock, the

154
00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,040
Speaker 2: largest asset manager in the world, saying to buy a bitcoin.

155
00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,240
Speaker 2: Paul Tudor Jones has been all over the news for

156
00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,640
Speaker 2: years and now this week again about buying bitcoin, and

157
00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,080
Speaker 2: you have you know, President of the Free World, you know,

158
00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,240
Speaker 2: Donald Trump buying bitcoin and the Trump family buying bitcoin.

159
00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:01,200
Speaker 2: And then you still have like your cousin down the

160
00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:02,640
Speaker 2: street telling you it's like a scam.

161
00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's an old quote where the Gibson about how

162
00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,280
Speaker 1: the future is here. It's just not evenly distributed, and

163
00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,800
Speaker 1: we're starting to see that happening in real time. I

164
00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,800
Speaker 1: remember five, six, seventy to ten years ago trying to

165
00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,520
Speaker 1: explain to folks about Bigcoin as an inflation hedge, but

166
00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,640
Speaker 1: that was not really getting a lot of attraction. People

167
00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,000
Speaker 1: would patiently tell me, you know, Matt, we don't really

168
00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,760
Speaker 1: have that. Inflation's calibrated two percent a year. We've kind

169
00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:26,880
Speaker 1: of solved for that here in the United States. What's

170
00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,000
Speaker 1: really the appeal to any sort of inflation hedge and

171
00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,240
Speaker 1: then now here you and I talking about debasement in

172
00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,520
Speaker 1: real time, and it's suddenly that inflation hedge is looking

173
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:34,120
Speaker 1: pretty compelling.

174
00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, sure, what's wrong with two percent inflation? Well,

175
00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,000
Speaker 2: other than losing ten percent of your wealth every five years,

176
00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,440
Speaker 2: I mean, sure, nothing. I guess I would rather not

177
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,720
Speaker 2: lose ten percent of my purchasing power every five years.

178
00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,440
Speaker 3: But maybe I'm just maybe I'm simple minded. I don't know.

179
00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,520
Speaker 2: And of course it's not two percent. I look at

180
00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,400
Speaker 2: inflation as the rate of that monetary debasement, right, And

181
00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,320
Speaker 2: so you can look at the money supply. The USM

182
00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,280
Speaker 2: two supply has increased by fifty percent in the last

183
00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,840
Speaker 2: really forty percent in the last five years. And how

184
00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,160
Speaker 2: much is gas up, and how much are homes up,

185
00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:07,200
Speaker 2: and how much is stake up?

186
00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:08,480
Speaker 3: And how much is gold up?

187
00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,400
Speaker 2: And right, everything's up forty fifty percent, right, So I

188
00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:13,480
Speaker 2: think that's the real number. But I think it's I

189
00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,320
Speaker 2: think it's exciting not just for the debasement trade, the

190
00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,200
Speaker 2: store value, but now all the businesses, all the industry

191
00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,280
Speaker 2: being built out, and you talk about building infrastructure. So

192
00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,400
Speaker 2: right now it seems like the Trump administration is really

193
00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:29,440
Speaker 2: focused on making America great again, making America investable again,

194
00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,160
Speaker 2: making America build again, and so building out the infrastructure

195
00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,640
Speaker 2: is a big piece of that. How do you approach

196
00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,880
Speaker 2: thinking about building out the infrastructure for America with bigcoin mining.

197
00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,719
Speaker 1: In America, there's really two kinds of infrastructure we're building out.

198
00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,640
Speaker 1: There's the physical infrastructure of the mining and then there's

199
00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,960
Speaker 1: the financial system infrastructure that you might find with bigcoin treasuries.

200
00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,040
Speaker 1: So the Trump administration has actually been fantastic for both

201
00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,800
Speaker 1: of those. So to the mining side of the business,

202
00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,520
Speaker 1: we have a pro energy government. We've got folks that

203
00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,440
Speaker 1: understand that we need more energy and we need it now.

204
00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,560
Speaker 1: We need generative capacity, we need better transmission lines, we

205
00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,880
Speaker 1: need more sophisticated forms of off taking. We need to

206
00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,079
Speaker 1: be able to trade around peaks. These are all things

207
00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,000
Speaker 1: that bigcoiners and bigcoin miners have been swimming for years.

208
00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,360
Speaker 1: So having an administration that's genuinely bullish on the electron

209
00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,280
Speaker 1: it's good for us and good for what we want

210
00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,720
Speaker 1: to deal on the power side. On the treasury side,

211
00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,240
Speaker 1: there's a whole host of financial infrastructure that's also getting

212
00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,480
Speaker 1: built out in real time. Earlier this year we saw

213
00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,200
Speaker 1: the Genius Act get through the government. That was a

214
00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,760
Speaker 1: fantastic piece of legislature. There's a few more market structure

215
00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:30,800
Speaker 1: bills that are in the works. These to me are

216
00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,160
Speaker 1: seminal texts. These are the sorts of laws that they're

217
00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,400
Speaker 1: going to look back on the way that oftentimes securities

218
00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,160
Speaker 1: lawyers look back on the nineteen thirties as the cornerstones

219
00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,880
Speaker 1: of what created the American financial system. We're doing that over,

220
00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:42,120
Speaker 1: but we're doing on a blockchain.

221
00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, some of the things I saw Trump doing in

222
00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:46,240
Speaker 2: some of the executive orders that he put through in

223
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,240
Speaker 2: these initiatives that he started this year was also in

224
00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,960
Speaker 2: part of trying to really kind of reindustrialize the United States,

225
00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,280
Speaker 2: was to peel back a lot of the yellow tape,

226
00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,960
Speaker 2: the red tape that sort of bogs all of this

227
00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:02,160
Speaker 2: growth down. Experienced that I mean, as any of that

228
00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,560
Speaker 2: helped you, what's their experience like trying to build this

229
00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:05,680
Speaker 2: infrastructure out right now?

230
00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,280
Speaker 1: So if you look at past administrations, we'd same as

231
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,679
Speaker 1: everyone else. We're dealing with the fairly hostile environment. And

232
00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,280
Speaker 1: it came to opening things like bank accounts. You would

233
00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,160
Speaker 1: be one day doing business, in the next day being

234
00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,760
Speaker 1: told that you frankly weren't welcome and your money was stuck,

235
00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,439
Speaker 1: and so we were somewhat victims of our own financial

236
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,760
Speaker 1: system as Americans. This is something that fortunately has really

237
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,800
Speaker 1: stopped that operation showpoint era is over, and we're better

238
00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,200
Speaker 1: forward as a country. So those permittings and that chokehold

239
00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,640
Speaker 1: that they had on the ins and out points of

240
00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,960
Speaker 1: crypto were pretty serious and things that really slowed down

241
00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,400
Speaker 1: the ability to build this industry here in the United States,

242
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,760
Speaker 1: And now that that's been rectified, we're obviously seeing so

243
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:43,520
Speaker 1: many of the jobs and so much of that energy

244
00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:44,520
Speaker 1: coming back stateside.

245
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, so when you think about I mean just a

246
00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,400
Speaker 2: couple of things that we framed up already, I mean

247
00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,640
Speaker 2: from the debasement, trade people waking up to that, the

248
00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,400
Speaker 2: Trump administration, the Trump family getting into bitcoin, which is

249
00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,960
Speaker 2: obviously a big signal. I think they probably know some

250
00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,320
Speaker 2: things we don't have access to, so probably pretty bullish

251
00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,760
Speaker 2: on its own. You look at the political headwinds that

252
00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,120
Speaker 2: have turned into tailwinds now and are lifting this space up.

253
00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,200
Speaker 2: So I'm curious from that macro standpoint, we look at

254
00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,320
Speaker 2: a bunch of different factors, like what is your like,

255
00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,520
Speaker 2: what are you looking at bitcoin. What do you sort

256
00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,520
Speaker 2: of think is this bull case scenario. What are you

257
00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:19,240
Speaker 2: expecting over the next five ten years?

258
00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,120
Speaker 1: Bigcoing on for is the average American this off ramp

259
00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,880
Speaker 1: from the FIAD debasement situation that really before there was

260
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,760
Speaker 1: no good outcome. Your options were other FIAD currencies, real estate,

261
00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,840
Speaker 1: as we've discussed, you could buy some shiny rocks. You know,

262
00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:34,760
Speaker 1: Gold's been on a bit of a tear itself. Yeah,

263
00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,959
Speaker 1: there's really nothing great about that is when it comes

264
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,840
Speaker 1: to a good store value in something that has a

265
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:45,080
Speaker 1: compelling use case or financial future for the country. I'm

266
00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,560
Speaker 1: happy that the gold folks are feeling vindicated, but gold,

267
00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,040
Speaker 1: to me is not an optimistic trade that is investing

268
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,720
Speaker 1: in this sort of pre monetary system as an escape

269
00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,080
Speaker 1: from modern day society. And look, well, I'm glad folks

270
00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,920
Speaker 1: have found a story value that works for them. Bitcoin

271
00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:03,959
Speaker 1: offers all that and more and more and more people

272
00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,760
Speaker 1: are seeing the value of having their money or their

273
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,680
Speaker 1: their hardware stored in something that has that fungibility, that

274
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,920
Speaker 1: ease of transferability, that verification on the blockchain. There's a

275
00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:14,800
Speaker 1: lot of value add to bitcoin above and beyond what

276
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,520
Speaker 1: the goal or the gold premium would be for stoare value,

277
00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:19,640
Speaker 1: and that's something that I only think is going to increase.

278
00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, So when you think about, you know, mining bitcoin,

279
00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,680
Speaker 2: how do you approach the actual bitcoin that have been mined.

280
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,360
Speaker 2: So I'm just curious like what your strategy is. Is

281
00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,160
Speaker 2: it like we're selling this for revenue cover our costs

282
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,120
Speaker 2: or do you have some sort of strategy maybe with

283
00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,800
Speaker 2: your shareholders a capital that you've raised that allows you

284
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,240
Speaker 2: to hold it for the long term or are you

285
00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,520
Speaker 2: sort of more like opportunistic and maybe you'll sort of

286
00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:45,719
Speaker 2: like buy and hold around cycles. I'm just kind of

287
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,080
Speaker 2: curious what your viewpoint is on that.

288
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,480
Speaker 1: American Bitcoin benefits from having that mining business pretty big

289
00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,040
Speaker 1: twenty five eggs as today, scaling from there, and also

290
00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,319
Speaker 1: a treasury component. So we haven't sold a single satoshi

291
00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,560
Speaker 1: since we all this to the company in April. To

292
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,520
Speaker 1: your point around financial structure, we actually have access to

293
00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,640
Speaker 1: a multi billion dollar at the market offering vehicle that

294
00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,760
Speaker 1: we're able to use strategically to raise money to buy

295
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,520
Speaker 1: more bitcoin to cover some of these expenses. So we

296
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,560
Speaker 1: really haven't dipped into the till when it comes towards

297
00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,520
Speaker 1: liquidating satosis and paying for things, and that's not something

298
00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,000
Speaker 1: that we foresee doing for us. Bitcoin is the end

299
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,560
Speaker 1: all bl is what we're really geared towards accumulating, and

300
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,839
Speaker 1: as we think about our north star of bitcoin per share,

301
00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,240
Speaker 1: I'm not really interested in things that would reduce the

302
00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,359
Speaker 1: bitcoin per share that I can then offer my shareholders.

303
00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,400
Speaker 2: So then your publicly traded a bitcoin mining company is

304
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,240
Speaker 2: quite a bit different than what you might see with

305
00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,000
Speaker 2: others Mara or Riot or something like that. Whereas they're

306
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,800
Speaker 2: mining bitcoin, they're selling the bitcoin. Maybe some of it

307
00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,800
Speaker 2: they keep, but your policy is to get more bitcoin,

308
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:46,360
Speaker 2: whether you mine it or you buy it.

309
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,559
Speaker 1: Our attitude is that investors in a bitcoin mining or

310
00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:51,840
Speaker 1: a bitcoin treasury company really want one thing, which is

311
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,160
Speaker 1: maximum bitcoin. So oftentimes I really refer to American Bitcoin

312
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,480
Speaker 1: as a bitcoin accumulator for that reason, we're accumulating bitcoin.

313
00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,920
Speaker 1: It's that sym well, some of our they may want

314
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:02,760
Speaker 1: to sell, or they're trying to be strategic and trade

315
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,120
Speaker 1: around it. My version of strategy is dollar cost averaging

316
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,560
Speaker 1: into the hors asset on Earth. I'm not really interested

317
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,400
Speaker 1: in selling. I think that the energy arbitrage aspect is interesting,

318
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,440
Speaker 1: but for me, that's just one part of the operational

319
00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,720
Speaker 1: discipline to grow your stack. So I'm very mindful of

320
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,680
Speaker 1: things like s and a very mindful of the cost

321
00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,280
Speaker 1: of power per month, curtailment, trading energy, things like that,

322
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,600
Speaker 1: but really only in so far as it allows me

323
00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,480
Speaker 1: to hoddle as much bitcoin as possible.

324
00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,480
Speaker 2: Every day we see headlines about inflation and dead and

325
00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,920
Speaker 2: diminishing control over our own money. That's why I always

326
00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,600
Speaker 2: come back to bitcoin because it's built for generations, it's

327
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,920
Speaker 2: built for legacy. But protecting your bitcoin legacy the right

328
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,760
Speaker 2: way is not always simple. It demands discipline, focus and

329
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,400
Speaker 2: the right partner. Now, that's why I personally use Unchained Signature.

330
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,360
Speaker 2: It's a premium private client service for serious bitcoin holders

331
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,480
Speaker 2: who want expert guidance, resilient custody, and an enduring partnership.

332
00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:00,000
Speaker 2: Now Signature, you're paired with your own dedicated account manager,

333
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,840
Speaker 2: someone who understands your goals helps you every step of

334
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,280
Speaker 2: the way. You're going to get white glove onboarding, same

335
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:10,400
Speaker 2: day emergency support, personalized education or reduced trading fees, and

336
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:15,160
Speaker 2: priority access to exclusive events and features. Unchained collaborative custody

337
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,480
Speaker 2: model is designed to provide the same security as the

338
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,280
Speaker 2: world's biggest bitcoin custodians.

339
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:21,880
Speaker 3: But for those who.

340
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,560
Speaker 1: Prefer to hold their own keys.

341
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,880
Speaker 2: Now, I've been using and recommending unchained for years.

342
00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,200
Speaker 1: I even got my parents to set up with them.

343
00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,520
Speaker 2: So if you want to get set up, check out

344
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,920
Speaker 2: unchained signature at unchained dot com, slash mark Moss and

345
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,560
Speaker 2: as a loyal listener, I got a discount for you.

346
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,640
Speaker 2: Just use code Moss ten at checkout to get ten

347
00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:45,120
Speaker 2: percent off your first year. Because your bitcoin isn't just for.

348
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:46,960
Speaker 3: Life, it's for generations.

349
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,280
Speaker 2: I mean, that's pretty interesting because as far as I'm aware,

350
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,800
Speaker 2: I mean, all of the public trade bitcoin miners are

351
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,280
Speaker 2: more like gold mining producers, if you will, right, So

352
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,600
Speaker 2: they get in the raw asset, they kind of do

353
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:01,120
Speaker 2: what they do, you know, do with it and then

354
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:02,480
Speaker 2: and then they sell it back into the market. So

355
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,120
Speaker 2: the bitcoin miners bring it in, they bring the bitcoin

356
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,080
Speaker 2: in existence, they sell the bitcoin back into the market.

357
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,640
Speaker 2: But your bitcoin mining company is not that your bitcoin

358
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,040
Speaker 2: mining is your Your bitcoin mining is part of a

359
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:16,720
Speaker 2: bigger strategy correc of a bitcoin accumulation engine and the bitcoin.

360
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,360
Speaker 2: The bitcoin mining is one component of that business, but

361
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,440
Speaker 2: the overall strategy of the over riding business is to

362
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:24,360
Speaker 2: accumulate bitcoin.

363
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,080
Speaker 1: Well put, for us, the bitcoin mining is a way

364
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,640
Speaker 1: to accumulate at a discount. I want as much bitcoin

365
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 1: as possible, as fast as possible. If there's a means

366
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,240
Speaker 1: for me to get it at a fifty percent discount,

367
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:34,680
Speaker 1: I'm going to do that as long as I can,

368
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,080
Speaker 1: as fast as I can. And that's what mining represents

369
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,320
Speaker 1: to us. It's this way for us to turn energy

370
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,400
Speaker 1: a bitcoin we can go buy spot. So the things

371
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,200
Speaker 1: the treasury companies are doing, preferreds and converts and atfs,

372
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,760
Speaker 1: these are all great financial instruments and each has its

373
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:48,920
Speaker 1: own place. But to my knowledge, the only way to

374
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,400
Speaker 1: accumulate any bitcoin at a structural discount is to mine.

375
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,400
Speaker 1: So we struck the ground and we've been building big minds.

376
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:59,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting. Now what are you seeing right now

377
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,240
Speaker 2: in the performance of of the discount I should say

378
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,400
Speaker 2: the discount to mining bitcoin because a lot of people

379
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,040
Speaker 2: would look at some of these bitcoin mining companies, the

380
00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,120
Speaker 2: public ones, and I mean actually the last couple of months,

381
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:10,919
Speaker 2: the stock's been doing pretty well on most of these

382
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,000
Speaker 2: publicly traded bitcoin minors. But for the most part, you know,

383
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,120
Speaker 2: last couple of years that hasn't really been performing that well.

384
00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,560
Speaker 2: It looks like their costs are so high it's not

385
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,760
Speaker 2: that profitable for the mining bitcoin. What is the profitability

386
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,040
Speaker 2: like to mine bitcoin right now?

387
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,280
Speaker 1: So when it comes to the profitability of mining bitcoin,

388
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,080
Speaker 1: I would really pull American Bitcoin out from our peer group.

389
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,280
Speaker 1: And here's why. If you were starting a brand new

390
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,879
Speaker 1: bitcoin company today, a new bitcoin mine specifically, you're really

391
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:40,320
Speaker 1: wanting to really buy only one thing, which is the machines, substations, transformers,

392
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:44,120
Speaker 1: electrical gear, concrete, all of that. The return of capital,

393
00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:46,520
Speaker 1: a return on invested capital, I should say, is not

394
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,080
Speaker 1: that compelling. It's really going to come down to the

395
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,480
Speaker 1: machines and being asset light and then also having as

396
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,240
Speaker 1: few staff as possible that are pulling away from that

397
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,440
Speaker 1: expenditure onto the eggsash. So when we were putting together

398
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,280
Speaker 1: the American Bitcoin model to begin this year, we thought

399
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:05,480
Speaker 1: we were almost reimagining what a successful bitcoin mining company

400
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,240
Speaker 1: would look like. So for a peers to your point,

401
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,440
Speaker 1: there's somewhat of a net drag. They have a lot

402
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,359
Speaker 1: of full time employees, there's very high overhead costs. They're

403
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,919
Speaker 1: not really watching construction costs the way we had but

404
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,960
Speaker 1: we were able to divide our core competency into the

405
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,400
Speaker 1: mining side, where we own the machines that's American Bitcoin,

406
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,880
Speaker 1: and then the building and development, which HUT does. And

407
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,360
Speaker 1: unlike other miners where they either need to vertically integrate

408
00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,440
Speaker 1: fully in their own business and then they're paying all

409
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,760
Speaker 1: the costs of everything all the time, or they're working

410
00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:34,760
Speaker 1: with the hosting provider, in which case someone else is

411
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,320
Speaker 1: trying to charge the margin. We've got a nicely aligned relationship.

412
00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,680
Speaker 1: It's not antagonistic, it's cooperative. HUT wants us to grow

413
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,120
Speaker 1: where their customer first resort when it comes to bitcoin.

414
00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,760
Speaker 1: They would love to see us take one, three, five,

415
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,080
Speaker 1: ten gigawatts of bitcoin mining off take. And for us,

416
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,600
Speaker 1: we see HUT as a great partner. That's a team

417
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,680
Speaker 1: that's already proven that that they can build these massive facilities.

418
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,800
Speaker 1: And HUT eight is not really looking to get bitcoin returns.

419
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,160
Speaker 1: They want energy development returns, they want energy infrastructure returns,

420
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,560
Speaker 1: and that suits us just fine on the bitcoin side.

421
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:06,639
Speaker 3: Got it.

422
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,960
Speaker 2: So you're leveraging HUT to then sort of host and

423
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:11,479
Speaker 2: run that for you, so then you don't have all

424
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,399
Speaker 2: that initial capex investment. That to your point creates that

425
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,000
Speaker 2: drag and it's so hard to get back to a

426
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,600
Speaker 2: profitable state from you can buy the machines, deploy the machines,

427
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,640
Speaker 2: have them running without having to invest that, and then

428
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,200
Speaker 2: just give a small percentage of the revenue back towards

429
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,200
Speaker 2: HUT to help them offset their capex investment.

430
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 1: Precisely, My goal here is what they call lemonade, stand

431
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,480
Speaker 1: economics energy and has your go in bigcoin comes out.

432
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,480
Speaker 1: We hold a bitcoin. Not really interested in complicating that

433
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,320
Speaker 1: with a lot of other construction calls and things like that.

434
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,440
Speaker 1: It should be very streamlined, and that's just the way

435
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:41,920
Speaker 1: I like it.

436
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I just recorded a video. It hasn't

437
00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,479
Speaker 2: hit my YouTube channel yet, but talking about Trump's one

438
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,719
Speaker 2: big beautiful bill and the bonus and accelerated depreciation that

439
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,760
Speaker 2: got renewed thankfully, and how you can take one hundred

440
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,560
Speaker 2: percent deppreciation in year one, and how a bitcoin minor.

441
00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,920
Speaker 3: Is a computer equipment that depreciates.

442
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,640
Speaker 2: Over a five year period and so you can buy

443
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 2: that bitcoin minor excel the depreciation for year one and

444
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,439
Speaker 2: it works out pretty amazing to write off that taxable income.

445
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,400
Speaker 2: And of course I talked about doing that and through

446
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,560
Speaker 2: like a hosted minor. Most people, I mean, especially be

447
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,200
Speaker 2: in California. I can't run a minor at my house.

448
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,200
Speaker 2: My power is way too expensive for that. But from

449
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,159
Speaker 2: a personal standpoint, when I do the math, I mean,

450
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,280
Speaker 2: it looks very attractive. I'm assuming you're just doing the

451
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 2: same at massive scale.

452
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,320
Speaker 1: That's well point for us. The bonus appreciation is one

453
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,800
Speaker 1: technique or one allowance from the government among a host

454
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,720
Speaker 1: of changes that we've seen we hope to see that

455
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,760
Speaker 1: make our industry much much happier here in the United States.

456
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,240
Speaker 1: The bonus depreciation for us, it's good. I'm pro any

457
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 1: policy recommendation that's going to bring the jobs and hash

458
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 1: rate here to the United States. The depreciation, whether it's

459
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,920
Speaker 1: for a hosted peer of ours or for ourselves. To me,

460
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 1: this is fantastic. I'd just much rather a hash rate

461
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,800
Speaker 1: be here in this jurisdiction than overseas in some autocratic country.

462
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 1: And yeah, the bonus appreciation is a good part of that.

463
00:20:58,440 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

464
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,400
Speaker 2: Now, when I think about bitcoin treasury companies, we talked

465
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 2: already about the goal of trying to get more bitcoin, right,

466
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,639
Speaker 2: increase the bitcoin per share that they have. You mentioned

467
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,480
Speaker 2: that mining bitcoin's only a way to get discounted bitcoin,

468
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 2: especially compared to like doing preferreds or something like that.

469
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,359
Speaker 2: Maybe I mean they're they're going to pay out of

470
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,960
Speaker 2: ten percent of that they keep they keep the spread.

471
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 3: I guess they ARBA charge on that.

472
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,880
Speaker 2: But I'm I guess I'm curious, Like when I think

473
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 2: about bitcoin treasury companies running a business alongside of it.

474
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 2: Typically I think of that that treasury company deploying capital

475
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 2: into a working business as a less efficient way to

476
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 2: spend the capital.

477
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 3: Most businesses don't.

478
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 2: Do a fifty percent profit margin, and so to beat

479
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 2: the hurdle rate of just buying bitcoin, it seems like

480
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 2: I'm destroying capital by putting in any business, not just

481
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 2: a bitcoin mining business, but any business.

482
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,200
Speaker 3: I mean, no business is doing a fifty percent profit margin.

483
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 2: So I'm curious how you look at that, Like, I

484
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 2: have money came in, Should I buy bitcoin or should

485
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,679
Speaker 2: I buy more bitcoin miners? And which one is actually

486
00:21:58,720 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 2: more creative to my business?

487
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 1: This is something that we think about every day in

488
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,920
Speaker 1: America bitcoin. Where to put that dollar for the marginal

489
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 1: boost in hoddle. Sometimes it will be miners and sometimes

490
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 1: it will be spot. It's really going to depend on

491
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,719
Speaker 1: quarter to quarter, week to week, where's hash price at today?

492
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:19,360
Speaker 1: Where our energy costs today? If I spend Fiat dollars

493
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,400
Speaker 1: to buy those miners, am I going to earn back

494
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 1: or mind back more bitcoin relative to what I could

495
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 1: buy today. It's actually a dynamic calculation. So there have

496
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 1: been periods where we bought Spot. So we did a

497
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 1: large minor purchase earlier this year. That was we believe

498
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 1: in net a creative and strategy to us, but we'd

499
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 1: also explore Spot buying. We've participated in the markets in

500
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 1: that front as well. It is certainly a quarter to

501
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,879
Speaker 1: quarter thing, and you'll actually see as we grow involve

502
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: as a company, you'll see us doing one or the

503
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:48,919
Speaker 1: other and that will give you some sort of indicators

504
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 1: to where we see the pub going. For us, the

505
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 1: key thing on buying machines is to not get you fork,

506
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 1: don't chase. That applies to buy Spot and applies to

507
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 1: buying machines. We want to make sure that we're not

508
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 1: putting money into large orders when we believe there's going

509
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 1: to be a cheaper machine opportunity on the horizon, better

510
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 1: hash rate, etc. You saw a market increase in efficiency

511
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 1: over the past two years we kept our powder dry

512
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,239
Speaker 1: at us Biccoin Corporate and Hot eight, and then now

513
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: with American Bitcoin, we've put the machines into play here

514
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 1: that are really future proofd for that next having. And

515
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,400
Speaker 1: so if we're gonna think about the having, and by

516
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 1: the way, it's maybe in two and a half, you know,

517
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: three years or so, I'm already still thinking about how

518
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 1: are we going to make sure that our mining business

519
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: can weather that storm. You really do have to be

520
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 1: very thoughtful about where you'rechoosing to deploy capital. One thing

521
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 1: that you mentioned is putting money into other businesses. I

522
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: would stress that at American Bitcoin, we're really only interested

523
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 1: in companies that are on the Bitcoin standard. I don't

524
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: know how to run those other kinds of companies. I mean,

525
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: there are aspects of them that I think could be

526
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: net a creative. I would certainly look at any deal

527
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: that would bring more bitcoin to our balance sheet, but

528
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: it really needs to be part of our core thesis.

529
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to limit myself, but I also want

530
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 1: to make sure that I'm not spending a lot of time,

531
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: in a lot of brain calories on something that is

532
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,199
Speaker 1: not really related to over core competency. When I was a

533
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: consultant banded company. It was a line you'd always use

534
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: about the importance of profiting from the core. And for us,

535
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 1: the core is bitcoin, whether that's bitcoin mining, whether it's

536
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: the treasury strategy work, and some harnsing that volatility. Let's

537
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,199
Speaker 1: let's stick to what we're good at and be very

538
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: thoughtful about expansion.

539
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it say, you know, stay within your

540
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 2: core competency is what Warren Buffett would call his deal box,

541
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 2: right swinging at the ones I know that are going

542
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 2: to have a high chance of completion.

543
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 3: That makes sense.

544
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 2: And I was just saying in general, just in business

545
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 2: in general, is very rare to find any business, whether

546
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 2: I'm a Bitcoin standard or not, that's going to have

547
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 2: a fifty percent return.

548
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 3: Agree, So that that's kind of where I put the

549
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 3: hurdle rate for bitcoin.

550
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 2: So it's like, huh, if it can't get And even

551
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,479
Speaker 2: if you bought a business that's twenty five percent, I mean,

552
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: I guess technically that's still a creative, it's just less accretive.

553
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,880
Speaker 2: And so I guess is what you're saying, if I'm

554
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 2: repeating it back to you, is that every time you

555
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 2: look to deploy new capital, you're just sort of looking

556
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 2: at those and deciding which one is gonna be the

557
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 2: most accretive for the business, and you make your decision

558
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 2: and based off of that.

559
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: Correct, we are looking for things that are the most

560
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 1: recreative in bitcoin terms. Again, for us, the north start

561
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,400
Speaker 1: here is bitcoin per share. So if I look at

562
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: these deals and I think, hey, this is going to

563
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: result more bitcoin, then we started out with I'm interested.

564
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: But to your point, that's a very high hurdle. There's

565
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,719
Speaker 1: not a lot of businesses that have that bitcoin trajectory.

566
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: And you know what if that means that we stick

567
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 1: to bitcoin, I'm cool with that.

568
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

569
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 2: So you're acquiring bitcoin, you're building bitcoin, you're mining bitcoin,

570
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 2: you're build up that bitcoin base. What is then the

571
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 2: next stage of the business. So you build up your

572
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 2: bitcoin base and then what you mentioned, some of the

573
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 2: bigcoin treasury companies are doing preferreds or some other types

574
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 2: of securitized instruments on top of the bitcoin sort of

575
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 2: what's the strategy that you have or you see forward.

576
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: There is a layer in fact beyond that one. So

577
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: our business actually has three layers. Layer one is the

578
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,679
Speaker 1: bitcoin mining. That's our core competency. That's effectively accumulating bitcoin

579
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: into fifty percent gross margin. Layer two, that's the treasury strategy.

580
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: You've seen some of our peers using all sorts of

581
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: financial techniques. We're aware of them. We are strategically doing

582
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: what we want to do grow a bitcoin stack through

583
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 1: the capital market side as well. But there's actually a

584
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 1: third layer of this business, which is what we call

585
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 1: ecosystem amplification. And there's really two ways I would position

586
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: us for that. One is the American Bitcoin brand and

587
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: getting out there and getting known as a brand that

588
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: is geared towards pure play Bitcoin accumulation is somewhat of

589
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: a joke. Someone was telling me that when you search stocks,

590
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: they can be alphabetical, and there are times where we

591
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: search bitcoin and ABTC is above BTC, which sounds great

592
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: to me. But we are offering folks that that bitcoin

593
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: accumulation product that the market doesn't really have in the

594
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 1: way that we offer are. There are ETFs that have

595
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 1: one to once and that's that's going well for the

596
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: black Rocks of the world, et cetera. There are financial

597
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: strategy companies. I mean, obviously micro strategy or not just

598
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: strategy has pioneered a lot of those techniques. There are

599
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: the miners, but for us, it's about taking the best

600
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 1: parts of each. We want to be asset light like

601
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: we believe the best miners are. We also want to

602
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: be thoughtful about liquidity and volume like the best treasury companies.

603
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: But this third level, this ecosystem play. That is where

604
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 1: over the coming quarters I would like to spend more

605
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: of my time. That is, what does an ecosystem on

606
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: the Bitcoin standard look like? Because bitcoin is to our

607
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 1: earlier conversation, it's not gold. It's better than gold, it's

608
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: different than gold. There is a lot of capital tied

609
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: up in bitcoin. What are the things that we can

610
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 1: be doing as a Bitcoin Standard company to support that growth?

611
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 1: Is it financial services? Is it consumer facing products? Is

612
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: it related to putting things at to bitcoin l twos

613
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 1: or do we want to start getting into swaps? What

614
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: are the things we can do to get people using

615
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 1: the bitcoin ecosystem Because all of that activity is net

616
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: a creative to bitcoin, both in the abstract sense but

617
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: also in terms of transaction fees, which routes right back

618
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 1: to our mining business. So we're really trying to build

619
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: a virtuous cycle here of mining and then treasury and

620
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: then ecosystem, and collectively you've got a pretty unique accumulator

621
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: among all these bitcoin companies.

622
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 2: Governments will never stop printing money, So inflation it's not

623
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,959
Speaker 2: going away. Now. If your money is not earning at

624
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: least ten percent the year, you're losing purchasing power. Now,

625
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 2: that's why I talk about bitcoin. It's the number one

626
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 2: way to beat inflation and secure your future. And the

627
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 2: question I get asked almost every day is where do

628
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 2: you buy your bitcoin?

629
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 3: Now?

630
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 2: For years, I've personally used River dot com and I

631
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: only take on sponsors that I use and I trust,

632
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 2: and I trust them because River's bitcoin only. They have

633
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 2: one hundred percent reserve, and they keep your bitcoin safe

634
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 2: in cold storage with no middlemen, and you can actually

635
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 2: talk to a real person, a US based support, dedicated manager. Now,

636
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 2: try getting that peace of mind from coinbase. Of course

637
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 2: you can't. Now the perks. If you set up auto buys,

638
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 2: you can pay zero fees plus instead of you're bank

639
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: paying you, you know, zero point four percent on cash,

640
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,959
Speaker 2: River pays you three point seventy five percent on cash

641
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,719
Speaker 2: paid in bitcoin. So if you're ready to build your

642
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 2: bitcoin position with confidence, go to River dot com. Slash

643
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 2: mark moss and get up to one hundred dollars in

644
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: bitcoin when you sign up, because freedom starts when you

645
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,239
Speaker 2: own your money, and your money starts with bitcoin. When

646
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 2: you think about the ecosystem part, is that like is

647
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 2: that like, you know, maybe like a venture capital hold,

648
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 2: old company private equity play where you're investing in supporting

649
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 2: in scaling your said earlier, bundling unbundling businesses that support

650
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: the bigcoin ecosystem. Or is it more like you said

651
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 2: financial services, where it's like, well, now we have this

652
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 2: bitcoin on our balance sheet, how can we mobilize the

653
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 2: bitcoin the balance sheet to get it to create yield?

654
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: Is it both or is it one or the other?

655
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: I would argue the best of both. Right now, we're

656
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: not looking at venture investments per se. I am, however,

657
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: looking at things that could create operational streams of bitcoin.

658
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: So if there are opportunities for us to advance bitcoin

659
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: to a group, or work with a group, or take

660
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: a stake in a group and build their base, and

661
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: that brings a stream of Satoshi's back to us, ideally

662
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: there are already a bitcoin native business, or they're a

663
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: business where I can quickly get them onto the Bitcoin

664
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: standard that to me is really exciting has not yet

665
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: been tried. What can we do to get more copanies

666
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: in the bitcoin universe working together collaboratively. Folks basically were

667
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: building these products, and they say that first time founders

668
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: are very obsessed with product and second time founders are

669
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: obsessed with distribution. After US Bitcoin Corp. Now I've got

670
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: American Bitcoin into American Bitcoin, I'm very very interested in distribution,

671
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: which is, how do we get all of these cool technologies,

672
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: all of these interesting layer one, layer two solutions or

673
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: bigcoin of products. How do we get those in the

674
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: hands of the users? Because that's something that, frankly, if

675
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: you look at the wider crypto ecosystem, was always a complaint.

676
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: There were two questions I would get at these conferences.

677
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: One is where the institutions and then the other, more

678
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: perfect question is where exactly are the users of all

679
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: of this stuff that's being built. My attitude is that

680
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: American Bitcoin is that the next of both the institutions

681
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: are coming. They want bitcoin exposure. We're starting to see it,

682
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: whether it's sovereign wealth funds, family offices, the big wealth managements,

683
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: the ras. They are getting onto a bitcoin trade. Though,

684
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: whether it's spot or through an ETF for working with

685
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: an accumulator like us. The institutions are coming, the users

686
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: are also starting income. They might not even know with

687
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: stable coins and things like that that they're using a blockchain,

688
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,239
Speaker 1: but the users are starting to appear as well. And

689
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,479
Speaker 1: so if we can find a way to take the

690
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: benefits of both of these two incoming secular trends to

691
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: the bitcoin world, it's going to be very beneficial to

692
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: American bitcoin.

693
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

694
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been deploying venture capital into the bitcoin space

695
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 2: now five six years. I'm a partner at the Bitcoin

696
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 2: Opportunity Fund, and so we invest through the entire bitcoin

697
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 2: ecosystem and.

698
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 3: We've we've had some really good, really good plays.

699
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 2: We tend to typically do things that are a little

700
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 2: bit further stage, not early venture, but a little bit

701
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 2: further along already kind of prove it out. But I

702
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 2: kind of got to this point, you know, the last

703
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 2: couple of years, where it's like we need less bitcoin

704
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 2: products and more bitcoin in everyday products, right to like

705
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: really really push that use case right and one to

706
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 2: the point that you just made one. I think it

707
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 2: was just yesterday, Morgan Stanley sent out messages to their

708
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 2: clients telling them they're going to start bringing in I

709
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 2: think both bitcoin and ethereum for people in their in

710
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 2: their Morgan stand account. So the rias the financial advisors,

711
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 2: they're pushing that down.

712
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 3: That's pretty that's pretty powerful.

713
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 2: And then I think it just us last week, right,

714
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 2: we've seen Jack Dorsey announce with Square quite a few

715
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 2: things that they've integrated right into Square for the merchants

716
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 2: to start putting some of accept bitcoin at no fee,

717
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 2: be able to take a percentage of whatever they bring in,

718
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 2: and whatever they want to set to go directly into bitcoin.

719
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: And so we're seeing those things play out in real time.

720
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 2: It's it's pretty exciting.

721
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: I think it's tremendously exciting. Timing is everything, right. We're

722
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: hitting a point where the public not only is interested

723
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: in bitcoin, but they're getting off of zero and they're

724
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: showing up, and we need to make sure that there's

725
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: the infrastructure to support them, whether that is financial products.

726
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: Like you're describing more of this consumer work. I think

727
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: the way you put it is so eloquent that we

728
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: need we need more Bitcoin in everyday products or products

729
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: that day day users have. I think we're about to

730
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: see that shift coming the coming quarters, and American bitcoin

731
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: is going to be.

732
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 3: Part of that.

733
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, Now you mentioned earlier like when you think about

734
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 2: buying the bitcoin minors and making sure that the machines

735
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 2: will last long.

736
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 3: Enough to get to the next halving.

737
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 2: So the bitcoin having cycle is something that in the

738
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 2: bitcoin space we've talked about consistently about every four years,

739
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 2: or not even really about like almost like clockwork. It

740
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 2: seems like we have, you know, a peak and then

741
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 2: a trial, and at that time the amount of new

742
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: bitcoin be in mind every day gets cut in half.

743
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 2: And a lot of people have said that that supply

744
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 2: demand imbalance or shock or shift is sort of what

745
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: creates these highs and lows in that bitcoin space or

746
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 2: in that cycle. There's a growing narrative that I tend

747
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 2: to agree with that the four year cycle is basically

748
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 2: dead and maybe the four year cycle was always a

749
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 2: meme and it wasn't really about the four year cycle.

750
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 3: What's your take on that?

751
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: Well, Look, I think doing four year cycles on an

752
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: asset that's not even twenty years old is a little

753
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: bit aggressive, and certainly they don't have enough data points correct.

754
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: There have not been enough four year cycles to declare

755
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: a four year cycle with any degree of empirical certainty,

756
00:33:58,280 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: if I could be so humble as to say that,

757
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: you know, there's something called hyperstition, which is when people

758
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: believe something new existing, and the four year cycle is

759
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 1: one of those phenomenon that where when you think about

760
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: emission schedules and you think about the role that miners

761
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 1: playing the ecosystem, et cetera. There has been a grain

762
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 1: of truth to it historically, and folks believing in the

763
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: four year cycle likely precipitated more of a four year cycle.

764
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: That being said, Bitcoin has had so many new adoptees

765
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: and new investors and fresh eyes on it these days

766
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: that I'm not sure people are as immersed in the

767
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 1: lore of things like the four year cycle the way

768
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: they would have been in past bitcoin bull runs. So

769
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: when you lose that shared belief among the new investors,

770
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: coupled with the fact that miners now are only accounting

771
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: for four hundred and fifty bitcoin per day at the

772
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 1: current emission schedule, it does take a little bit of

773
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: the machine off the four year hypothesis. So I'm inclined

774
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: to agree with you that while it was perhaps a

775
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 1: helpful heuristic historically, while we are on a run. I

776
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: think that part of the industry maturing is that we

777
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 1: may be moving into a ten year supercycle. We don't

778
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: know yet, it's too early to tell, but the composition

779
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: of investors is certainly changing in a way that's probably

780
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 1: making it a little less predictable than it used to be.

781
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 2: I think to the point you made, I think is

782
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 2: very accurate, where people believing it to be so sort

783
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 2: of almost then reinforces it to be so. And I

784
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 2: see it all over people ask me all the time.

785
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 2: I see it online. A lot of people think that

786
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 2: they should not be buying right now, or they should

787
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 2: even start selling right now because we're at the peak

788
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 2: of the cycle, as if like it's just going to

789
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 2: happen on that day. And so to your point, that's

790
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 2: sort of like this self fulfilling prophecy, like they're not

791
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 2: buying or they're actually selling right now because November is

792
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 2: always the peak every year, November, eighteen months after the having,

793
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 2: and that could sort of force a sell off even

794
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 2: if the sell off wasn't coming right. So that's certainly

795
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 2: there now when the HAVING supply gets cut in half

796
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 2: to your point, four um and fifty, it's not that much.

797
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 3: The supply demand and balance is.

798
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 2: So great, you know, between ETFs and treasury companies, institutions,

799
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 2: it's somewhere it ranges five and ten times more demand

800
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 2: than the new supply is being created. So you cut

801
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 2: the supply in half, it's inconsequential. So for the average

802
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 2: hoddler who's thinking about the price of bitcoin, maybe that

803
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 2: kind of goes away. And I would argue that it's

804
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 2: the global liquidity cycle that's in the driver's seat here,

805
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 2: that's the dog wagging the tail. And obviously, when we

806
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 2: had the last peak of November twenty twenty one, we

807
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 2: were in a different world. We had just seen record inflation.

808
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 2: Jerome Powell came out in November announced he was going

809
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 2: to start hiking rates, and the hike rates at the

810
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 2: fastest rate hiking cycle in history. And today he's not

811
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 2: hiking rates. He just announced he's just start cutting rates.

812
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 2: So it's like we're completely different. And so for the

813
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 2: average hoddler, maybe the price stays up the same. But

814
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 2: from a bitcoin minor perspective, you do have to be

815
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 2: prepared for the for the emission as you call it,

816
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 2: or the new inflation rate to be cut in half.

817
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so it's interesting that you bring an M

818
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 1: two in Monteary supply as well as the FED rates.

819
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: The FED rates are interesting from minders because again we

820
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: build heavy infrastructure, so of course we're very mindful of

821
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: debt and things like that. We we do pay some

822
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: of our bills obviously in FIAT, and so we're very

823
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: codis where FIAT is trading in what direction it's it's heading.

824
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: The market is already a wash in capital, and so

825
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: adding ray cuts is going to exacerbate that. Realistically, it's

826
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 1: this seems to be consensus. We'll see where that capital goes.

827
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: It's been an interesting time because you've seen almost this

828
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: U shape where I can't recall a period of time

829
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 1: where gold is hitting all time highs and so is quantum.

830
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: You know, this is an interesting bar Barbelle. You're you're

831
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: you're seeing these flight quasi flight to safety ideas that

832
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: are that are going to all time highs. You're seeing

833
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 1: bitcoin here in ALTIMEI goldenre in all time high, silver,

834
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: all time high, et cetera. But then you're seeing quantum up,

835
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 1: seeing flying cars absolutely ripping. You know, the the the

836
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 1: the fringe risk on tech and the risk off assets

837
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: everything is rising, which makes you wonder, to the point

838
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: you've been making, if in it's just the dollar falling

839
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: and we're really just seeing the impact of the basement.

840
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: Because although bitcoin is an all time highs in dollar terms,

841
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: bitcoin is not yet an ult time high in gold terms.

842
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: And I remember going on some media tours maybe three

843
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: or four months ago, and some interviewers were new to

844
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: bitcoin would ask me, you know, Matt, where where do

845
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 1: you see this going? And I like using gold as

846
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: a metric. I think bitcoin I can extoll the values

847
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: of bigcoin is being far more useful than that gold is.

848
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 1: But it's a nice benchmark. Gold at the time was

849
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: at twenty one trillion and we were at two trillion,

850
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 1: and it seemed like a nice ten x. Gold today

851
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: is around twenty seven trillion. Yeah, so we keep chasing

852
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: this this high. So I guess that creates more of

853
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 1: a headroom for for for bigger there's more, there's more

854
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: room to advance to compare to the big brother of gold.

855
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: Is that trad store value there. But time will tell

856
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: to your point, if these if these cuts precipitate more

857
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: of an uptick, or if people start realizing to your

858
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: point that maybe we have at a peak.

859
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, but how are you, as a bitcoin minor planning

860
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 2: for the new supply of bitcoin being cut in half?

861
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,919
Speaker 2: I mean does I mean theoretically, I would just think

862
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: back of the n appt in math that the price

863
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 2: of bitcoin has to double if the supply gets cut

864
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 2: in half for you to stay at the same profit margin.

865
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: There's no proverb that you can't control the win, but

866
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 1: you can adjust your sales. So as we look at

867
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: the having coming up in two and a half, three years, right,

868
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 1: still always out, it's still always out. We'll be here

869
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: before you know it. But we're already being cognitive. How

870
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: do you adjust your sales? So, as we think about

871
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: where we would choose to deploy capital, knowing that it

872
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: would take some time to get the sites up and running,

873
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: shorten the runway pre having, we need to be very

874
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 1: thoughtful about those expenses even today. These decisions made today

875
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: will have decisions for quarters to come. So we're very

876
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: aware of that and I already factor that into some

877
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: of our CAPEX discussions. We have a roadmap to get

878
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: to fifty plus eggs ASH if we so choose. That

879
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 1: being said, as we look at the opportunity to just

880
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: buy spot that could be compelling as well, so we're

881
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: constantly balancing the buying spot versus buying minor trade. The

882
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: other bit of the why buy miner's trade that I

883
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 1: think is relevant to your question is the last having,

884
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 1: the literal day of the Having, by the way, was

885
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: our best ever revenue day, for my best ever, we

886
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: had transaction fees five six seven times what we were

887
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: making in terms of the block subsidy. That to me

888
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: was a four shock. So as they think about the

889
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,439
Speaker 1: next HAVING, I don't know yet what that transaction fee

890
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 1: volume will look like. But not only do I anticipate

891
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: that Bitcoin will have doubled by the next having, even

892
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: if we go through some sort of mini winter, I

893
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: think the next HAVING is a pretty appropriate time for

894
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: that doubling effect. You're also going to hopefully see an

895
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: uptake in that transaction fee volume as well, so there'd

896
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 1: be a double whaman. There's the need to get simply

897
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: appreciation on the underlying asset, but if we can get

898
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 1: any kind of increased velocity in the usage or the

899
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: utility of bitcoin itself, that actually rewrates the model. So

900
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: rather than us sitting here and conjecturing about a four

901
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: to fifty decline mathematically to two twenty five, just constantly

902
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: getting machetied every four years. We start to wonder about

903
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 1: what does it mean to own the future of what's

904
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: effectively the swift network on Bitcoin, and what is the

905
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: value accrule that a bitcoin minor or someone with massive

906
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:13,760
Speaker 1: amounts of hash rate would get from that network.

907
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of fees from the network, I believe today, well,

908
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 2: I don't know when this recording is going to go out,

909
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 2: So at the time of this recording, we had the

910
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 2: V thirty get pushed through from bitcoin Core. Great, and

911
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 2: that increases the well at you know, the op size

912
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 2: got put in as a template standard default, I should say,

913
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 2: which has a lot of people on both sides of

914
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 2: the aisle. It seems like one of the reasons they

915
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 2: did that would pete to help miners create more fees.

916
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 2: What's your view on that whole debate.

917
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: You're making this stute observation, which is that with the

918
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: adoption of this upgrade, miners do win. There is a

919
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: likelihood that the transaction fear just the the amount of

920
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: things that are described on the blockchain will increase. As

921
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: miners we are almost a service provider or infrastructure. People

922
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: want to go on the toll road. It's not my

923
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: business to ask where they're coming, where they're going. It's

924
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: my job to process those transactions and really keep the

925
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: toll road or that works safe so for us and

926
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: secure so for us. I take a macro view that

927
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 1: there are lots of developers on both sides of this situation.

928
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 1: I see the merits to wanting to really restrict what

929
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: bigcoin is for. But at the same time, I think

930
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 1: a big part of the crypto libertarian ethos is letting

931
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: people do what they want to do if they're willing

932
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: to pay for it. And so if people want to

933
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: really take advantage of these adjustments that have just been

934
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 1: made by the upgrade, we're going to support. Where the

935
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: community is is indicating that it wants to go again. Miners,

936
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: you need to remember, are very conservative. So for us,

937
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: the most important thing is that the blockchain stays up,

938
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: stay secure, is defensible against any sort of fifty one

939
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 1: percent attack. We think while we think spam is a problem,

940
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: I think an even greater problem would be anything that

941
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: we kind of jeopardize the blockchain itself. And unless we

942
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 1: see increased transaction fee volume over the long term, that

943
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 1: security budget is going to get a little bit tricky.

944
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 1: So Net I'm open to the increase that we've just seen. Yeah, yeah,

945
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: I mean unless it unless it hurts it long term.

946
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: But you know, I do think that knots coming out.

947
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: Although I'm not really.

948
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 3: A fan of either.

949
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 2: I wish we could sort of stay where we were,

950
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 2: but I think it is a healthy free market action.

951
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 3: Well, let's try an alternative.

952
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 2: It is you.

953
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 1: You remind me of something, which is that you know,

954
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: governments hate competing. They hate it when you go when

955
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: you get a driver's license in California and I live

956
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: and get a driver's license in Texas, those departments and

957
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: motor vehicles are not are not competing really, which is

958
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 1: why the experience is not always the best. The only

959
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: place where governments historically have competed or the economics, and

960
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: then their defense budget and their defense industrial complex. And

961
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: so what's been interesting about this from a bitcoin perspective

962
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 1: is that your point, a little bit of competition in jets,

963
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,320
Speaker 1: a bit of rigor. So I'm glad that these discussions

964
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: are being had. I'm glad that there's a debate back

965
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 1: and forth. To your point, changes can be made they

966
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,439
Speaker 1: could be reversed or retracted if it was being seen

967
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,359
Speaker 1: as jeopardizing the ecosystem. You really want to avoid a monoculture.

968
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: That is somewhat of what we're trying to escape is

969
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: this hegemony right, of this inability to get out of

970
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: the Fiata basement situation. And so part of that is

971
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: offering a competitive alternative, and for things like knots as

972
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: an example, if they're willing to present an alternative, if

973
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: people want to vote with their feet, we'll channel er

974
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: inner cryptolibertarian and we'll see.

975
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 3: What they do.

976
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard of a third one trying to get

977
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 2: some legs under it, being run by a nonprofit that

978
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 2: would run a third option that'd be more of like

979
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 2: an ossified code base, and it would only implement extremely

980
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 2: urgent critical patches and it would not do any improvements.

981
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm all for the competition. That seems to

982
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 2: be where I would lean like, let's not try to

983
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 2: make things better. That's what Sailor has been talking about

984
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 2: the best way to ruin something to try to improve it.

985
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,479
Speaker 2: So how about we just if there's a critical patch,

986
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 2: we can put that in. Otherwise, let's just leave it

987
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 2: as is. I think layer two should figure out how

988
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 2: to move around Layer one, not the other way around.

989
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 3: I like that. I like that a lot.

990
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 2: Man, we covered a lot of good ground. I think

991
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 2: that's a pretty good spot for us to stop. Do

992
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:21,760
Speaker 2: you have any big announcement you want to make anything

993
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 2: people should be watching out for, paying attention to what's

994
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 2: happening this year.

995
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,240
Speaker 1: Sure. So, look, it's a big year for American Bitcoin.

996
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: We launched April first, we went public September third. That

997
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 1: was a splash, but it was just the beginning for us.

998
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: We're going to put in some really exciting quarters here

999
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: now of growth. That was not a finish line, it

1000
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 1: was a starter pistol. So now we're out there. We're

1001
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: growing our layer one that's the mining, We're growing our

1002
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: layer two that's the treasury, and soon we'll be announcing

1003
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: how we're growing our layer three, that's our ecosystem. So

1004
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 1: there is a lot to come. So I advise folks

1005
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: to keep an eye for the American Bitcoin story because

1006
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: there's quite a lot ahead.

1007
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 3: Got it.

1008
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 2: We'll make sure to link all that down on the

1009
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 2: show notes down below so everyone can follow along on

1010
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 2: Twitter and on their website. Now, with that we'll ahead

1011
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 2: and wrap it up. Thanks so much, up, thank you, Mark,