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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you

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Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. What they sing my books,

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Speaker 1: your grandmother, all of your grandmother's Wow Garrison, my grandmother's dad.

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Speaker 1: So that they're still facebooking in the grave, I mean,

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Speaker 1: thank god. No. I think my grandparents briefly got introduced

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Speaker 1: to my Space before being too sick to use the

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Speaker 1: internet anymore. They were on a o L for a

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Speaker 1: while though. Oh that's that's quaint. Yeah, they were on

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Speaker 1: a o L for a while. Um, you know it's uh,

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Speaker 1: it's what I don't often say, Thank goodness for Louis

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Speaker 1: body demanship. But at least it stopped them from from

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Speaker 1: knowing the horrors that were to come in the digital age.

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Speaker 1: They got they got right off the bus before things

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Speaker 1: got terrible. Yeah, that is so friends, Romans, countrymen, how

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Speaker 1: do you feel about meta, which is totally what we're

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Speaker 1: all gonna be calling Facebook for now on for forever.

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Speaker 1: My main thought, honestly is that like the word meta,

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Speaker 1: the past like two years, the word meta has been ruined,

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Speaker 1: both like pop culture thinking it's smart and then ship

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Speaker 1: like this, now that a once useful concept has now

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Speaker 1: been obliterated and we can't use it for anything anymore,

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Speaker 1: you can't be meta. And and the fact that Facebook

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Speaker 1: is attempting to use this as the name of their

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Speaker 1: company shows that Mark Zuckerberg hasn't had a conversation on

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Speaker 1: even footing in his entire adult life, Like everyone is

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Speaker 1: trying to get someone out of him every time he

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Speaker 1: talks to anybody, so nobody would say, like, you know, Mark,

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Speaker 1: met is a terrible name for a company. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: they did that, and they had a big event about

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Speaker 1: two weeks ago where they got up and talked for

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Speaker 1: an hour and twenty minutes about the future of the

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Speaker 1: Internet and what Facebook's vision of the metaverse was going

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Speaker 1: to be, all this all this very fun stuff. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so here's the thing. It's a bad idea, and normally,

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Speaker 1: like bad tech ideas are a dime a dozen, and

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Speaker 1: we don't cover them on our show because this is

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Speaker 1: a show. It could happen here about collapse, things falling apart,

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Speaker 1: and the future and what's going to come next. But

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Speaker 1: in this case, talking about meta is actually really worthwhile

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Speaker 1: because meta is one example of how the people who

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Speaker 1: are kind of in control, or at least in control

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Speaker 1: of the significant amount of the world that we live in,

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Speaker 1: particularly the digital spaces that we've all agreed to be

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Speaker 1: locked into, see the future. I think the thing that

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Speaker 1: like makes it clear why this is in our wheelhouse

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Speaker 1: is an article from Wired by Matthew Galt, who's a

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Speaker 1: buddy of mine. He's a great journalist. Um. And it's

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Speaker 1: titled Billionaires c VR is a Way to Avoid Radical

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Speaker 1: Social Change um. And that title does kind of get

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Speaker 1: to the get to the nut of it. But the

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Speaker 1: quotes in this thing are fucking wild. So before we

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Speaker 1: get into Mark Zuckerberg and his vision of the future

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Speaker 1: of the Internet and of humanity, UM, I want to

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Speaker 1: read some quotes from John Carmack. Um. So, John Carmack

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Speaker 1: is the guy. He made doom right, Like, you can't

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Speaker 1: overstate the the impact John Carmack had on gaming, Like

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Speaker 1: he invented the first, like first effectively the first popular

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Speaker 1: first person shooter. He was the CTO of Oculus for

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Speaker 1: a while. UM. And he's very familiar with like three

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Speaker 1: D digital spaces, Yes, and he's he's very bullish on VR.

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Speaker 1: UM and he gave a quote, well, not gave a code.

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Speaker 1: He talked to Joe Rogan during an interview in and

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Speaker 1: he said this. Some people read this the wrong way

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Speaker 1: and react in correctly to it. The promise of VR

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Speaker 1: is to make the world you wanted. It is not

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Speaker 1: possible on earth to give everyone all that they would want.

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Speaker 1: Not everyone can have Richard Branson's private island. People react

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Speaker 1: negatively to any talk of economics, but it is resource allocation.

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Speaker 1: You have to make decisions about where things go economically.

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Speaker 1: You can deliver a lot more value to a lot

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Speaker 1: of people in the digital in the virtual sense. UM.

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Speaker 1: And that's one of those things that you can see

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Speaker 1: how a guy like John Carmack, who was again a

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Speaker 1: smart guy who's been ahead of the curve on a

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Speaker 1: number of important things, could could convince himself this is true.

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Speaker 1: This is absurd, And I think what we see in

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Speaker 1: Facebook's video is going to make clear that it's absurd.

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Speaker 1: One of the reasons that it's absurd is that UM,

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Speaker 1: like everything else, the people who are building them metaverse

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Speaker 1: have done, like what they've done to the Internet. The

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Speaker 1: Internet before Facebook and and Twitter and these like these behemoths,

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Speaker 1: UM used to be weird in decentralized and primarily not

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Speaker 1: for profit. UM. There was there was a period of

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Speaker 1: time in which like the idea that you would actually

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Speaker 1: make money off the Internet, like really out of like

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Speaker 1: content or whatever was just silly because it was this

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Speaker 1: it was impossible to monetize. It was this weird, wild,

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Speaker 1: like creative nonsense pile UM. And you can only kind

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Speaker 1: of make money a around the edges of it, but

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Speaker 1: the core of it was just just far too strange

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Speaker 1: and uncontrollable UM, too wild and free. UM. And that's

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Speaker 1: not the Internet anymore because of the people. Because in

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Speaker 1: large part of the people who are trying to build

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Speaker 1: these metaverses and the idea that they would allow poor

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Speaker 1: people to have the same kind of resources as rich

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Speaker 1: people in the metaverse there, they can't let that happen.

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Speaker 1: They're not the kind of people who would let that happen.

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Speaker 1: They're going to monetize every aspect of this thing. If

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Speaker 1: it becomes real. We ever have like an all encompassing metaverse,

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Speaker 1: every every moment of it and everything you do in it,

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Speaker 1: everything you have in it is going to cost you money,

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Speaker 1: probably with some kind of bullshit subscription plus adding on,

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Speaker 1: you know, like randomized cashes and other like you know,

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Speaker 1: lootbox type mechanics. Selling gambling the children is the business

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Speaker 1: model of the future. By the future, I mean it's

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Speaker 1: been happening. Yeah, it's the business model they want for now.

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Speaker 1: I will state I think some sort of persistent virtual

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Speaker 1: reality thing will probably happen in some way someday. I

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Speaker 1: don't think any of these people. Part of why my

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Speaker 1: thesis of this is none of these people are capable

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Speaker 1: of making it. It's because they look at this the

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Speaker 1: same way like shitty app developer, shitty like game developers

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Speaker 1: for Facebook look at gaming, where it's like everything should

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Speaker 1: cost money, you should be able to pay to win,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, well, nobody likes that, like nobody nobody

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Speaker 1: likes those games. Those are not the things that are successful.

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Speaker 1: Like and it is one of the games that comes

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Speaker 1: up a lot when people talk about the metaverse is

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Speaker 1: Minecraft and what made Minecraft hugely successful and why you

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Speaker 1: can kind of plausibly see like, oh, this has elements

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Speaker 1: of a metaverse where you're everybody's building these gigantic, persistent

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Speaker 1: things that you can interact with and that you can

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Speaker 1: make these incredible and people mad like works of art.

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Speaker 1: In Minecraft, they did it for free, and they did

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Speaker 1: it because like nothing costs money really in Minecraft, if

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Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, like you can make anything with nothing

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Speaker 1: just by the game, and then you have the game

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Speaker 1: and you can build whatever you want. Your equity is effort, right,

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Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, And it's like you know, like what

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Speaker 1: what are my friends like learned computer science? So he

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Speaker 1: could like, okay, great circuits, right, he like he built

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Speaker 1: a like functioning computer in this game, just like you can.

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Speaker 1: You can like it's it's like it's pretty. It's pretty. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you're gonna tell me sometime in the future, virtual

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Speaker 1: reality in the Internet is going to get like so

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Speaker 1: good and so pervasive that eventually people will bootstrap together

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Speaker 1: some kind of metaverse. Yeah, maybe like that that could

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Speaker 1: happen if it comes from like a cyber like punk aspect,

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Speaker 1: where like emphasis on the punk, then so I can

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Speaker 1: see this being a thing. But the way tech companies

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Speaker 1: are talking about this. That's not how people use the

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Speaker 1: internet currently, specifically, like the mainstream people. There's no way, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and there's there's a few more. Like one of the

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Speaker 1: things that Matt brings up in this article is like

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Speaker 1: VR is a way to avoid radical social change. UM

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Speaker 1: is uh like kind of the one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: why he's number one, and I think where we should

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Speaker 1: all be kind of critical about how realistic it is

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Speaker 1: is is kind of the present state of virtual reality,

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Speaker 1: which is about one point seven percent of Steam users

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Speaker 1: have a VR headset. Steam being kind of the largest

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Speaker 1: app to try to monitor like how many people are

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Speaker 1: using VR right, Like, it's kind of your best that's

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Speaker 1: figuring out the big that's the biggest PC gaming UM headsets.

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Speaker 1: Sales of VR headsets did go up about during the

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Speaker 1: pandemic UM, but that was kind of alongside of surge

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Speaker 1: in video game sales. VR headsets were already We're already boosting,

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Speaker 1: and the pandemic definitely it empercies that because it's like, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm stuck at my house. What can I do? Well,

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Speaker 1: I'll buy like a two oculus so I can, you know,

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Speaker 1: walk around and fight Ninja's in my living room, and

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Speaker 1: VR is like real, like VRS cool, like it's I

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Speaker 1: have a VR headset for years. It can do. One

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Speaker 1: of the things that um I talked talking about, like

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Speaker 1: what it takes for technology, new technology to like go viral,

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Speaker 1: to become like endemic. It has some of that, which

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Speaker 1: is that as soon as you put one of these on,

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Speaker 1: most people, unless you're one of the people that it

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Speaker 1: makes sick. Most people, if you put them, put them

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Speaker 1: on and you show them the right thing, they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is actually way cooler than I thought it was

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Speaker 1: going to be. Yeah. UM, So that is like I'm

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Speaker 1: not I'm not like has I'm not poo pooing the

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Speaker 1: entire idea of VR. UM. And there's there's there's been

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Speaker 1: some successes on like Half Life. Alex sold about two

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Speaker 1: million copies, which is huge for VR, but like also

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Speaker 1: nothing for a video game, Like that's like for a

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Speaker 1: big for a fucking Half Life game. That ship, which

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Speaker 1: just it just shows that it's still like fractional, which

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Speaker 1: I don't think any of these people are kind of

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Speaker 1: missing UM, but it is kind of point to again

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Speaker 1: the degree to which this technology would have to leap

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Speaker 1: up for anything like what Facebook where we're about to

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Speaker 1: talk like it for that to actually be popular. There's

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Speaker 1: a difference between developing VR gaming and developing this metaverse

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Speaker 1: concept which goes way beyond VR gaming. Yeah yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: but I so what I find what I find so

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Speaker 1: like doomed about this isn't the technology, even though I

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Speaker 1: think it's important to acknowledge, there's a long way to

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Speaker 1: go just in terms of like how heavy it is,

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Speaker 1: how much space you need, how not fully immersive it is.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's trying to remove lighthouses making it more mobile. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot, there's a lot of stuff that control

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Speaker 1: schemes are still kind of jank, like, yeah, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot to be done, but all of that's I mean,

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Speaker 1: think about the first iPhone, right, it was like a

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Speaker 1: fucking brick compared to the ship today, all of that

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Speaker 1: gets better, and all the first VR headset compared to

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Speaker 1: the Oculus two, it's like a massive improvement and basically

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Speaker 1: every way. I don't think when people criticize this stuff

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Speaker 1: by pointing out like how primitive VR is today, I

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Speaker 1: don't think that means anything. Um, it is like worth noting,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's current level of adoption but it's not

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Speaker 1: people compare this to like three D TVs and stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's not that three D TVs were immediately obviously from

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Speaker 1: the beginning, nothing but a but a grift um because

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Speaker 1: there's nobody wanted what really wanted what three dtvs had.

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Speaker 1: Like VR, people do want what VR does, and eventually

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Speaker 1: the tech will get there. What's bullshit is the idea.

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Speaker 1: And this is why I think this article by Galt

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Speaker 1: is so good. The idea that VR is going to

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Speaker 1: allow the poor and downtrodden of the world to have

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Speaker 1: a slice of the good life. And this is something

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Speaker 1: Karmak is particularly bullish about. Quote not everyone can have

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Speaker 1: a mansion, Not everyone can have a home theater. These

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Speaker 1: are things we can simulate to some degree in virtual reality.

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Speaker 1: Now the simulation is not as good as the real thing.

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Speaker 1: If you are rich and you have your own home,

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Speaker 1: theater or mansion or in private island, good for you.

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Speaker 1: You're probably not the people who are going to benefit

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Speaker 1: the most. Most of the people in the world lived

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Speaker 1: in cramped quarters that are not what they would choose

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Speaker 1: if to be if they had unlimited resources. Incredibly deranged. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's out of its mind because that's not how VR

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Speaker 1: works like I have, Like I can put on my

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Speaker 1: headset and load up like a nice forest, and it's not.

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Speaker 1: It's not the feeling of being in a fort like, No,

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Speaker 1: that's not. That's not how our senses work. So until

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Speaker 1: we can hack our own brains the feeling things we

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Speaker 1: don't actually feel, then it's not a thing. And we're

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Speaker 1: nowhere close to that level of technology, even just to

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Speaker 1: the degree that he's talking about, Like yeah, you could

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Speaker 1: you if you don't have a big home theater, you

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Speaker 1: could just like put it on and have a huge TV.

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Speaker 1: And which is a thing that VR can do now,

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Speaker 1: like I've it's not it's not good. It's like Garrison,

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Speaker 1: you come over to three times a week and we

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Speaker 1: watch movies with all of our friends in my living room.

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Speaker 1: Like the good thing about it, Like it's nice to

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Speaker 1: have a large screen. I have a big TV, but

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Speaker 1: like your friends, you're watching them react, like you're eating

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Speaker 1: food together. You're doing all this stuff that will never

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Speaker 1: really be possible in VR. I have a lot of

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Speaker 1: respect for John Karmen. He made Doom right, Like that's

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Speaker 1: a third of my childhood. Um, he's out of his

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Speaker 1: mind now if he thinks that that's like what people want,

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Speaker 1: what poor people want, Like you've been rich for too long, sir,

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Speaker 1: you don't understand human beings. A particular type of escape,

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Speaker 1: like using VR as that type of escapism is totally

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Speaker 1: wrong because like VR can be escapism, but it's not

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Speaker 1: going to trick you into thinking you're living in a mansion.

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Speaker 1: That's not that's not how VR works because you're walking

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Speaker 1: around a tiny room in your house and you can't

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Speaker 1: feel anything. You can like walk through cupboards, which is

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Speaker 1: a great way to play VR games is you can

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Speaker 1: just like hack it by walking into stuff. And they're

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Speaker 1: working on so the article notes that Elon Musk is

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Speaker 1: working on a brain machine interface called new Link. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and who knows what I will say, that's a little

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Speaker 1: bit like the how how realistic all of those dreams

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Speaker 1: are um is questionable. That said, something like what they're

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Speaker 1: claiming it is will eventually be figured out. I will,

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Speaker 1: and it should it will probably probably should be destroyed.

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Speaker 1: It probably should be destroyed. Not put the chip in

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Speaker 1: your brain is really bullish on that technology. Gabe Newell

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Speaker 1: is the guy we have half life for, like he

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Speaker 1: and he and John Karnak if there's a mount rushmore

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Speaker 1: of like gamer dudes, it's they make they make one

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Speaker 1: of the what they make one of the better headsets. Yeah. Again,

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Speaker 1: like we're about to talk about Mark Zuckerberg, who I

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Speaker 1: do not think is a visionary. Both Karmak and Newell

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Speaker 1: are visionaries. Doesn't mean they're right, because visionaries are wrong

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Speaker 1: all of the fucking time. It's part of their job.

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Speaker 1: But they're both really, really fucking bullish on this. Newell

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Speaker 1: is a big believer in like the promise of kind

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Speaker 1: of what the neural link the brain, inner face technology

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Speaker 1: and vr uh. He told I g NY were way

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Speaker 1: closer to the matrix than people realize, which I don't

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Speaker 1: think is the case. Um. And Newell is the person

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Speaker 1: who I've just talked about like how smart he is.

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Speaker 1: He is even more out of his mind than John

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Speaker 1: Karmack on this ship um. In an interview with New

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Speaker 1: Zealand's One News Um, he talked about his vision of

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Speaker 1: the near future, which is a world in which brains

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Speaker 1: and computers interface, and computers can make changes to the

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Speaker 1: human brain he called he called the human body a

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Speaker 1: meat peripheral Jesus Christ. Okay, so this is lost his

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Speaker 1: mind this is the this is the thing about like

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Speaker 1: VR and like the metaverse in generals is over like

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Speaker 1: emphasizing that we basically just live in the meat space,

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Speaker 1: and the meat space exists just to make content for

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Speaker 1: the online which is so and the online space is

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Speaker 1: the actual real space and we just have to operate

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Speaker 1: inside our meat space to make content for that. This

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Speaker 1: is like the way technology has been progressing, the way

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Speaker 1: tech companies want of things to go. And it's the

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Speaker 1: most dystopian thing that's going to give so many people

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Speaker 1: like disassociate of mental disorders because it's not horrible for

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be super interested to see people of

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Speaker 1: my generation, including myself, like how we developed mentally the

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Speaker 1: next you know, twenty years, based on how kind of

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Speaker 1: fake our lives have been because of how much we

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Speaker 1: exist and socialized within this like false network. It's gonna

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Speaker 1: be interesting to watch. I I used to be really

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Speaker 1: optimistic about aspects of VR. I actually when I was

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Speaker 1: in mosle I filmed not that like other people did

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Speaker 1: this before I did, but I was kind of one

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Speaker 1: of the early people filming like a a VR documentary

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Speaker 1: of some combat of like the Battle of mosle Um.

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Speaker 1: Aspects of which were aired as A three sixty and

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Speaker 1: a bunch of different like TV networks UM, and I

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Speaker 1: had this belief that, like, yeah, VR, because the visual

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Speaker 1: aspect of VR is so good, you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: even at that point Seen was already so good. I

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Speaker 1: disbelieve it, like well if you could, because the first

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Speaker 1: time I ever went into a war zone, it was

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Speaker 1: such an affecting experience, and I thought like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: if you could somehow carve out this moment of experience

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Speaker 1: and like transmitted to other people, maybe that would mean something.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it would like have an impact on people. I

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Speaker 1: do think that is possible in the long Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think maybe we'll like we'll see. The question is like,

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Speaker 1: can you give a sh if if you feel like

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Speaker 1: horror games, the level of like anxiety and some degrees

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Speaker 1: trauma of playing like a really well made horror VR

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Speaker 1: game is incredibly intense. UM, and that's something that be

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Speaker 1: done very well. So I feel like that type of

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Speaker 1: like surreal experience like a war zone could actually be

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Speaker 1: carried over to some degree in VR to like change

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Speaker 1: people's minds on like hey, maybe war is not good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's that's the dream I don't know how

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Speaker 1: much I still believe that, but reading people like Gabe

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Speaker 1: Newell and how they talk about this technology makes me

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Speaker 1: lose some hope and you want to throw all the

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Speaker 1: headsets in. Here's another thing, Game new Will said in

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Speaker 1: that view Garrison, after calling the human body and beat peripheral.

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Speaker 1: You're used to experiencing the world through eyes. But eyes

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Speaker 1: were created by this low cost bidder that didn't care

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Speaker 1: about failure rates in r m as, and if it

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Speaker 1: got broken, there was no way to repair anything effectively,

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Speaker 1: which totally makes sense from an evolutionary perspective, but it's

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Speaker 1: not at all reflective of consumer preferences of the human eye.

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Speaker 1: No like funck like like they There is some aspects

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Speaker 1: of trans humanism that I like. I like change like

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Speaker 1: body parts at will with like my mind. But this

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Speaker 1: type of stuff you ac you want to throw all technology.

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Speaker 1: I support the idea of Like it would be great

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Speaker 1: if when people lose their eyes completely from like shrapnel

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Speaker 1: or whatever, some sort of like degenerative disease, we just

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Speaker 1: pop new eyes in there. Absolutely we start cloning eyes.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a great thing. But eyes are amazing,

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Speaker 1: Like the most the most impressive camera ever were. No,

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Speaker 1: we're close to replicating the ability. It is not a

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Speaker 1: low cost bitter. It is like they're imperfect, like everything

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Speaker 1: that that is part of the human body. But like

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Speaker 1: the break down said that he can't monetize it. The

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Speaker 1: same day, that's problem he's also talking about, like, well

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Speaker 1: they break down. It's like, motherfucker, if you used a computer,

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Speaker 1: you're gave Newell. I've know you've used a computer, Like

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Speaker 1: you want to talk about breaking every computer I've ever owned.

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Speaker 1: I've used Steam before, Like, yeah, Steam, motherfucker. I'd like

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Speaker 1: I would rather have my eyes and I'm wearing glasses

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Speaker 1: right now. Go suck an egg and it goes on

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Speaker 1: because he he can't stop ship talking like reality. He

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Speaker 1: talks about like in the in the virtual world he

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Speaker 1: wants to build, the real world will seem flat, colorless,

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Speaker 1: blurry compared to the experiences you'll be able to create

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Speaker 1: in people's brains. Um And I want you to keep

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Speaker 1: that in mind, my, my, my dear friends and colleagues

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Speaker 1: as we leap now into the Facebook live stream. First

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Speaker 1: of all, I think would be worth like explaining to

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Speaker 1: and we've we've danced around what the metaverse is, but

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Speaker 1: for people who are totally unfamiliarly, do you think it

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Speaker 1: would be worth giving a general explanation Will that be

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Speaker 1: covered in the Facebook thing? That's kind of covered in

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Speaker 1: the because because this is Facebook building it. But I

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Speaker 1: think we should. You're probably right that we should give

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Speaker 1: a little bit of context about like where they got

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Speaker 1: this idea, because again, Mark Zuckerberg has never had an

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Speaker 1: original thought. It's not um and and gave Newell and

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Speaker 1: and um John Carmack have had original thoughts in their life,

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Speaker 1: but this is not an original thought from any of them,

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Speaker 1: all of them, everyone anywhere who talks about the metaverse

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Speaker 1: um is whether or not they know it. A fan

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Speaker 1: of Neil Stevenson who wrote who wrote a book called

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Speaker 1: Snow Crash, where the point was that in the future,

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Speaker 1: the world is a dystopian, corporatized nightmare. And because things are,

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Speaker 1: in part because things are so bad and incredibly highly

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Speaker 1: like advertised and monetized persistent internet called the metaverse that

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Speaker 1: exists all around us and it's totally immersive has come

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Speaker 1: to dominate everyday life. Um and it's a bad thing.

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Speaker 1: Like snow Crash, He's a story of like, wouldn't this

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Speaker 1: future be horrible. Yeah, it's not like, hey, this is

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Speaker 1: a cool thing, but these tech guys read this and

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Speaker 1: they're like, oh yeah, that seems like fun. But you

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Speaker 1: could do that. Neil Stevenson, who was yet another person

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Speaker 1: I respect, made one crucial flaw, which is he gave

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Speaker 1: the hero in his book a katana. And because the

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Speaker 1: hero in his book katana, everyone was like, wouldn't this

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Speaker 1: be rad if this were the future, Let's make this

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Speaker 1: be the entire future. It's a real trash. You need

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00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:32,400
Speaker 1: to abolish katanas, like, we would save so many lives. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: you could probably make a strong case that the Katana

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Speaker 1: has a huge chunk of the cultural weight that it

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Speaker 1: has because if Neil Stevenson, um, he's a big part

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Speaker 1: of that, right, you know, you've got a lot of

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Speaker 1: movies and stuff too. But yeah, but like the Katanas,

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Speaker 1: i mean punk kind of melding. Yeah, and it's it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a it's a very I mean, it's it's

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Speaker 1: a bit dated now, but it's still like a good

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Speaker 1: book to read. Like there's a bunch of silly stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. It's replicating a lot of others cyberpunk art,

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Speaker 1: some better, some worse. Yes, some worse cough cough, Ready

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Speaker 1: Player one. Yeah, and every like every not every cyberpunk sense,

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Speaker 1: because there's people like Corey doctor Oh who do some

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00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 1: really cool shit. Um, but most cyberpunk senses to some

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Speaker 1: extent um borrowed from from Neil Stevenson's work, and Facebook's

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00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:15,640
Speaker 1: entire idea is based on this. And so the idea

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Speaker 1: is that it is a persistent, fully immersive digital world

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Speaker 1: that interacts with the real world. So you can be

427
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 1: in VR hanging out with friends from around the world

428
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 1: and like a fake living room and then like call

429
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 1: someone and see like a video of them in the

430
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 1: real world, is they're like walking to a concert or whatever,

431
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,359
Speaker 1: and like talk to them and like make plans. Like

432
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:38,320
Speaker 1: that's the idea, right. Um. So this video, this face,

433
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 1: it opens with you know, you've got your your little

434
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 1: introduction music and stuff, and then we see Mark Zuckerberg

435
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:47,239
Speaker 1: looking like a fucking gollum um. Yeah. And and the

436
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,920
Speaker 1: first thing that I really noticed about this is that

437
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,200
Speaker 1: he talks about how we're all going to do this together,

438
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: meaning invent the technologies and use cases that are going

439
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 1: to make the metaverse worthwhile. Um. And when he says

440
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 1: all of us. This is not an internal Facebook video.

441
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 1: This is a video. The meta video is heavily angled

442
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: towards developers UM and investors UM and it's been viewed

443
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 1: by a lot of people, like twelve million to date.

444
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 1: But he's talking about like a big part of what

445
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 1: he's saying is that like the technology for all of

446
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 1: the stuff that we've rendered, because most of what's rendered

447
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 1: in this isn't game footage so to speak, like it's

448
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 1: not a game or whatever. It's here's how it might

449
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: look if the technology has ever invented. Like nothing, nothing

450
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 1: is like in engine or anything close to it. It's

451
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,199
Speaker 1: a it's all speculative. What's interesting about this to me

452
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 1: is that he's he is saying we're going to build

453
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 1: this together and and sort of acknowledging that like Facebook

454
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:39,880
Speaker 1: does not have the capacity to make this thing they've

455
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 1: dreamed about, but Facebook is going to own it. So

456
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,160
Speaker 1: he's a lot of like this is him tacitly admitting

457
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: I want to take your surplus value to make a

458
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 1: metaverse that I then control and monetize entirely at my

459
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 1: own discretion, which is cool, it's great, and it's also

460
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,199
Speaker 1: like I think, you know, I think if if, if

461
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 1: you want a sign of where this is actually going

462
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 1: and like the real creativity behind this, Like okay, again,

463
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,120
Speaker 1: everything in that video is a mock up, right. It

464
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 1: looks like dogshit. It's so ugly, it's hideous. It looks

465
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 1: like a fucking Connect game or like a fucking we game,

466
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 1: which is fine. I don't want to live there, like

467
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 1: it's always weird in cartoony. Um. Yeah, So he talks

468
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 1: about and kind of laying out why he thinks this

469
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: is the future. Zuckerberry talks about how text used to

470
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 1: be the basis of everything online, but now like photos

471
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 1: and videos dominate and that's yeah, as that change happened

472
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: from like text to video to photos to videos. The

473
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: next change, he kind of frames it like the the

474
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,880
Speaker 1: the the obvious next evolution is to what he calls

475
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: an embodied Internet where you're part of the experience, and

476
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: that's the metaverse, which again that if you don't I

477
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,360
Speaker 1: think that part has some true I agree. I don't

478
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 1: think he's entirely wrong there. Obviously that's not his idea.

479
00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 1: Um oh, running out of time, Okay, thank you for

480
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: telling about the host and now because it's unlimited minutes. Great,

481
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 1: Thanks zoom um speaking of meta verses. Um like, Yeah,

482
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna flop onto a share screen and

483
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna show you guys a section from this from

484
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: this video, think about computers or phones today. Now, since

485
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 1: we're doing this remotely today, I figured let's make this special.

486
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 1: So we've put together something that I think is really

487
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 1: going to give you a feeling for what this future

488
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: could be like. We believe the metaverse will be the

489
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: successor to the mobile Internet. We'll be able to feel present,

490
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,360
Speaker 1: like we're right there with people, no matter how far

491
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 1: apart we actually are. Okay, so I'm pausing it here

492
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,959
Speaker 1: because I want you to watch this. The room that

493
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberge is in, he's not in the metaverse yet,

494
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 1: he's in like a house. I think it's supposed to

495
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,959
Speaker 1: be his house. It is clearly not a place human beings.

496
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 1: It has been set dressed. Um. One of the ways

497
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: you can tell is that all of the books and

498
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 1: picture frames on the bookcase are like the same flat tones,

499
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: because they're not meant to stand out there, meant to

500
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: blend in and very telling Lee this is what's interesting

501
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: to me. As soon as he steps into the frame

502
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: where he's going to announce this. The thing that is

503
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: directly next to his head is the only thing that's

504
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: not like the same kind of baige as everything. It's

505
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: a bottle of barbecue sauce that's being used as the

506
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 1: book ind to a bunch of books now Meta. Immediately

507
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 1: after this, like people joked about it online and Meta

508
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,199
Speaker 1: started tweeting about it and like trying to make like

509
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: jokes about oh, Mark just loves his you know, his

510
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: his barbecue so much. Like they tried to turn it

511
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: into a meme because they think it's humanizing and and

512
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: and kind of one aspect of the meme they were

513
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 1: putting together is that like, oh, he just forgot to

514
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: you know, he just he's he's so into barbecue that

515
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: he leaves his saucer that was put there on someone's orders,

516
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: Like that was it was to create me. We're seeing

517
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: we're seeing marvels as well. They're releasing promotional images specifically

518
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: designed to be turned into memes, and it doesn't work

519
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 1: because it's so obvious, like because we'd be like, you know, yeah,

520
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: we're not going to use this because it's it's a

521
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: it's a dogshit horrible, it's like horrible cinematography, bad colors,

522
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 1: and it's not a fun meme. But people did follow

523
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: for the Mark Zuckerberg thing. Uh like, oh look at

524
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: the barbecue thoughts. But yeah, that was intentional to create

525
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: like a viral thing to trip. Yeah, anyway, I'm gonna

526
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: let Mark continue here after I made my little point.

527
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: When I send my parents a video of my kids,

528
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: they're gonna feel like they're right in the moment with us,

529
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: not peering through a little window. When you play a

530
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 1: game with your friends, you'll feel like you're right there

531
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: together in a different worlds, not just on your computer

532
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: by yourself. And when you're in a meeting in the metaverse,

533
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: it'll feel like you're right in the room together, making

534
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: eye contact, having a shared sense of space, and not

535
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 1: just looking at a grid of faces. So that's important

536
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: because a big aspect of what he's trying to sell here,

537
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: why he's he's trying to convince people that this is

538
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: a real thing, is that it's a bomb for loneliness. Right. Um,

539
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: he is, he is, and he's one of people who's

540
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: responsible for pushing our society to such an atomized and

541
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 1: isolated direction. Facebook propaganda has isolated huge numbers of people

542
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: from their families. It's um. And of course then there's

543
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: just the aspect of it that is the lockdown, which

544
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: has isolated people a number of a lot of which

545
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,719
Speaker 1: ties back to disinformation spread on Facebook. But like, um,

546
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 1: he's he's, he's selling this, you know, as a this

547
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,239
Speaker 1: will make you less lonely, will make you feel like

548
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 1: you're all together. Um, and it's it's He's specifically says

549
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: at one point, this isn't about spending more time on screens.

550
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: It's about making the time we spend on screens already better. Um,

551
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: which is horseshit because, as the Facebook papers make clear,

552
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: Facebook has repeatedly refused to do things that would have

553
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: reduced the harm of their platform because it would have

554
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: reduced the traffic that they've got. And I think those

555
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: are the kind of decisions you can Yeah, I mean

556
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: and still like technologically we're still not there, Like when

557
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: when when you're in VR you even if you're interacting

558
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: with other like three D like personas of people specifically,

559
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: like vr chat was very popular among like furries, and

560
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 1: I think they are Honestly the best example of what

561
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: the metaverse could actually be is how furries use vr

562
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: chat um. But even still that is very different um

563
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: than standing in a room with someone in a first suit, right, Like,

564
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 1: it's it's totally it's it's totally different. And metaverses and

565
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: this type of thing. I don't think we'll actually solve alienation.

566
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: I don't think it's because you're not actually touching anyone,

567
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,959
Speaker 1: Like it's it's not if you're not. There's still that

568
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: that that digital fog between you and everything else. Do

569
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: I think there's some elements of it that could be developed,

570
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: specifically using a R that would make things a little

571
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: bit cool. Yeah, uh, but it's not going to solve

572
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 1: alienation as a concept. In fact, it could actually make

573
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: it worse. It could make it worse. Like again, there's

574
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: some use cases for I don't know, people who have

575
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: like a l S. Maybe you could develop some sort

576
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: of rig that would allow them to interact like more

577
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: with with people around them and like that could be

578
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: useful for those people. But like, it is not a

579
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: societal answer to loneliness. And I think one thing that

580
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: makes that clear is you look at their vision of

581
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: home spaces. So this is kind of the center of

582
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: the of the metaverse. They want to build is everybody

583
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: has their little digital home um that you can set

584
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: up and you can design to your liking, and you

585
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: can buy things like n f T s to decorate it.

586
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: This becomes a big part of the pitch that like

587
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: n f T s are going to be in it

588
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: and like that way you know that they have at

589
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: one point, like somebody buys like an autographed poster for

590
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: a Metaverse concert that's an n f T and they

591
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: get to put it in their room and know that

592
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: it's the only one of those posters or something, which

593
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: is the dumbest thing I can imagine. Um, maybe it'll work.

594
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: I don't know. I I don't really see how that's

595
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: any different from an n f T being revolutionary case

596
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: than like, you know, being able to buy something in

597
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: a fucking video game. No, it's it's just the way

598
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: people already hate to do. Yeah, it's it's just skins

599
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: or whatever bullshit cosmetic stuff I want. Number One of

600
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: the things that's in entertaining about this is how bad

601
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: a lot of the acting is for all of the

602
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: money and time they have. Like Mark Zuckerberg is a

603
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: ship presenter and and this bit where he tries to

604
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: explain why the home space is so cool? Um and

605
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: it shows you like their home space. It starts about

606
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: four thirty on the video of people at home when

607
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: a watch is just a perfect, perfect encapsulation of like

608
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: how inhuman this this world they want to build really

609
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: feels what even when they try to present it in

610
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: its best face? Okay, Mark, Hey, what's going on? We're

611
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: floating in space this place that's awesome, right, it's from

612
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: the creator I met in l Ah. This place is

613
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: amazing that you of course it's me. You know, I

614
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: had to do the robot man. I thought I was

615
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: supposed to be the robot. WHOA. I knew you were bluffing.

616
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: Where is Nai? Let's call her Naomi? Hey? Should we

617
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: deal you in? Sorry I'm running late, but you've got

618
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: to see what we're checking out. There's an artist going

619
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: around Soho hiding a r pieces for people to find.

620
00:30:55,360 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: Really street art, that's cool. So I wanted to stop

621
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: here because this is also part of like what's it's

622
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: this perfect? It's like n f T culture and all

623
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: this ship like the street art they show, this is

624
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: clearly them trying to be like, here's one of these

625
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: cool use cases for how the metaverse is going to

626
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: interact with and influence the real world. Like this artist

627
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: pastes this art on a wall that when you look

628
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: at it in the metaverse or when you you film

629
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: it and you send a video to people in the metaverse,

630
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: it becomes this big three D thing and it it

631
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: just looks like ship. It's just a bunch of like

632
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: squiggly lines and stuff. Like. It's not like there's good graffiti,

633
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: especially in San Francisco, there's incredible fucking graffiti. Um, this

634
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: is just like nonsense. It looks like it looks like

635
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: a fucking n f T. Like it's just this this

636
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: kind of shitty. It was obviously designed by a computer,

637
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: not an actual person. Yeah, and there's nothing like it

638
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: doesn't say anything. There's nothing cool about it. Um and

639
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: they haven't again because Mark Zuckerberg can't conceive of art.

640
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: There's nothing about this that like makes me think, oh

641
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: what a need futuristic thing. It was like, oh cool,

642
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: I can see squiggly lines in person and on my phone.

643
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: I mean, the big metaverse and like a R and

644
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: VR is like you know, making depth within actually making

645
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: two D space appear to be three D space. This

646
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: still looks too D like it doesn't. It's not. It's

647
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: not tricking my brain in any way whatsoever. Especially with

648
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: the concept of like filming it on your phone. We

649
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: have the technology now like that's not that's not the metaverse.

650
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: That's just filming it already on your little box, as said,

651
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: and we have the technology to do like that. A

652
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: r thing with fucking um with your Pokemon Go did

653
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: that like five years ago, and it's not what people want.

654
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: Um well, Pokemon long time, but we ever got to

655
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: world peace and it was a CIA. Pokemon Go is

656
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: the closest we ever got to like the metaverse, like realistically,

657
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: but people don't want People don't want to like take

658
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: photos of crappy street art that then becomes three D

659
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: but still isn't like it is. It is incredibly grim

660
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: that most of like the case uses for metaverse stuff.

661
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: The only thing they can imagine it being is like

662
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: fucking met This is like the biggest thing that they show.

663
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, we can make virtual meetings. They've tried that.

664
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: The video that we just played. They're all in like

665
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: this spaceship and everybody's three D like one person. It

666
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: looks like kind of a hologram of their real bodies.

667
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: Some people are just like three D rendered cartoons of themselves.

668
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: One person is a big robot, and they're all like

669
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: floating in zero G and playing card sitting at a

670
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: table and playing virtual cards, and there's like a bed

671
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: in the background. But like, you can't go in the

672
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: bed because it's not a fake. It's a fake and

673
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: you're not floating in zero G because will never be

674
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: able to trick you into thinking you're sitting in a

675
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: in a in your chair in a room with some

676
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: ship on your face. You're you're fucking Carl Havoc and

677
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: trying to pretend that you're like having a good time

678
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: playing cards with your friends. It's like, yeah, if I

679
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: could have a space station house where my friends and

680
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: I could float around and play cards, that would be sick.

681
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: But you're not promising that. Are you doing that? Um?

682
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: Like there is there is games that simulate zero G.

683
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: They don't trick you. They make you nauseous. Sometimes it

684
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: can be fun, but like it's I'm not going to

685
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: be in the same way that eating Hawaiian baby woodrow

686
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: seeds can be fun. Um. Yeah, So he goes on

687
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: to talk about the avatars that you'll have, which are

688
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: basically he describes them as pro profile pictures, but much

689
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: richer because they're live, which I find unsettling and part

690
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: by thinking about what will happen when people die to

691
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: their digital avatars. But whatever. Um. At this point he

692
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: goes on to talking about how people he thinks people

693
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 1: are going to actually use these avatars, and it's, um,

694
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: it's very unhinged one for hanging out and maybe the

695
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: fantasy one for gaming. You're gonna have a wardrobe of

696
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: virtual clothes for different occasions, designed by different creators and

697
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 1: from different apps and experiences. So one of the things

698
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: he's talking about that is exciting is that like you'll

699
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: be able to have a different avatar for uh, like work,

700
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: if you're in a work meeting, or like hanging out

701
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: with your friends. Um. And to me, that says, like, oh,

702
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: so now I'm gonna be expected to like maintain and

703
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: keep up an avatar for like my job and like

704
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 1: dress that fucking thing, and then I'll have to like

705
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: switch to hang out with people, And like why why

706
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: does that? What does that provide me? Being able to

707
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: like sit in a room as an avatar that I

708
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: don't currently have like through zoom, Like why why is

709
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 1: in what world? Is that something people want? The only

710
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: only good use case for this is Furries. This is

711
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 1: the only way it worked because they that has almost

712
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,879
Speaker 1: like a true representation of their own body. What what's

713
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: this is gonna do for regularly for like people who

714
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: are not Furries is it'll probade people a lot of

715
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 1: weird like dysmorphia. Yeah, or if you're or if your

716
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: trends and you make a female avatar, assuming like you know,

717
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 1: for me, if I was to make like an avatar

718
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: that's more feminine, that can be fun for me. Um,

719
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 1: But for a lot of people, these weird like digital

720
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: versions of themselves will probably they're just like Uncanny Valley

721
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: and it will probably make you feel weird. Yeah. Um.

722
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: And he's he's so focused on like this as a

723
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 1: way for people to work together while being remote, which

724
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: says a lot like It's seventh, like like about a

725
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 1: half minute after this point or a minute or so

726
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: after this point, he brags that your home space can

727
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: even have your own personal office where you work, which

728
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 1: is within the metaverse, within the metaverse, which is really

729
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 1: bleak to me, just like digitally ruin your eyes. You

730
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: can goggles that long, your eyes get rude because it's

731
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: blasting light into your re and it's it's also just

732
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: like I like sitting with a laptop, and I have

733
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: a laptop, and I have a second screen for my laptop,

734
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,879
Speaker 1: and I sit at my comfortable living room table and

735
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: I write and browse the Internet and research and stuff.

736
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: And yeah, every now and then, like I hunch over

737
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:43,919
Speaker 1: too much in my back gets a little bit sore,

738
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: but like it's not. It's it's pretty comfortable, and I

739
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 1: can get up and move and do stuff in the house.

740
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 1: Putting a bunch of ship on me and sitting still

741
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: and like being unable to perceive the world around me

742
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 1: and locked into this uncomfortable digital desk because it's later

743
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 1: on whenever they do there's this mix of you can

744
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: see the videos of the technology as it actually exists,

745
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: and they're aspirational and the aspirational version. It's like you're

746
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: in this gorgeous three dimensional office that looks so you're

747
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: playing basketball, both in real life and in the hologram,

748
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 1: which it first of all just impossible, like you're never

749
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: going to do, never ever going to happen, just physically impossible.

750
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: But when you see the clips of like what because

751
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: they do have aspects of this built. When you see

752
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: the clips of like the workspaces they have built, it's like, oh,

753
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,720
Speaker 1: of my screen is the Microsoft word app or excel

754
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 1: um as it or or Outlook as it currently exists,

755
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,720
Speaker 1: and it is like the edges of this little VR office.

756
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 1: So all I'm looking at is I'm seeing a full

757
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: eye version of like whatever apps I'm used. You can, yeah,

758
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: you can. You can get a air headset, you can

759
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: download virtual desktop, you can bring your desktop into your

760
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: v into a VR space. It's not useful, like it's

761
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 1: like it's it's it's novel for the first twenty minutes,

762
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: and then you get bored of it because you realized

763
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: that you can actually see your keyboard so you can't

764
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: type fast. There's a great joke about this in the

765
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: last season the Community, the best example of the metaverse,

766
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: where he's like because like the big part of like

767
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: Epic Games version of the metaverse is like interacting with

768
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: like brands and all your apps within a three three

769
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 1: D digital space, which is what the Dean does in Community. Yes,

770
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 1: like run to his email, which yeah, like this is

771
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: a great example of why this technology is never going

772
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: to actually catch on for regular people because that's not

773
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: how they use the Internet. That you don't want to

774
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: traverse a three D digital space to get to your email.

775
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: That's that's asinine. Yeah, and it's there's aspects of it

776
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: that are asinine, and there's aspects of that just thus

777
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: just impossible. So, like a big thing that he's hitting

778
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 1: on with this is interoperability, which is like you want

779
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: to be able to trans travel between different apps, between

780
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: different programs that different people have made, and you want

781
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: to be able to take like whatever items you buy,

782
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: whatever n f t s you have with you. Um,

783
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: And he's talking about like this will work in games.

784
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: This is a thing that like you've seen people talk

785
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: about with like the promise of n f t s

786
00:38:58,200 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: for gaming, like you could get an item that like

787
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 1: is yours so they can't nerve it or or whatever,

788
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 1: and like it will travel for you from game to game.

789
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: There's a developer I follow on on Twitter. He made

790
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: the game Audios, which is about like a guy who

791
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: disposes of bodies for the mob and tries to quit.

792
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: It's a it's a cool games. He's a good developer.

793
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 1: Doc something or other. He wrote a huge article about

794
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,240
Speaker 1: like why none of this n f t's can't work

795
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 1: for gaming? Um that also hits on like why what

796
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg saying is impossible? Which is that Like, so you're

797
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: saying that everyone who makes a game has to has

798
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: to build in like a way to handle every single

799
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: item that you could possibly get in the metaverse and

800
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: everything that you're having, Like it's it's an unthinkable challenge.

801
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 1: Um it's and and like why and what if a

802
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: game shuts down? Right, Like are you saying they have

803
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: to continue operating the game forever and updating it forever,

804
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: even once it's no longer profitable so that you can

805
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: keep using your eye Like no, it's just it's it's

806
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: functionally impossible. Um, but it's It's what's interesting to me

807
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: is he's talking about all this. He has to know

808
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: this is impossible when he does. There's all these scenes,

809
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: like you said, where people like playing basketball, and like

810
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: one of them is in the real world and one

811
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 1: of them is in VR, but they're both playing in

812
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: a real world. And so the person with a with

813
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 1: a virtual ball, and it's like number one, how is

814
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:14,879
Speaker 1: the person the real world? How do they feel that ball?

815
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: He assistant vague shit about like haptic feedback, which doesn't

816
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 1: work that way. Um, maybe there's a way if you're

817
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: wearing like a glove that it could trick you into

818
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,720
Speaker 1: believing you were hitting a ball or something, um like

819
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: like and not everyone's wearing headsets like we're just we'll

820
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: get to that in part two, the headset question. Um,

821
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: but what what what's interesting is that like a huge

822
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: amount of the coolest stuff, the stuff that you can

823
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: be like, well, that would be neat. Yeah, if I

824
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: could fucking if I could fucking play pool with my

825
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 1: friend in Germany and it would feel like we were

826
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,359
Speaker 1: both in the same room, um, even though only one

827
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: of us is standing around a real pool table. Yeah,

828
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 1: that would be an amazing feat of technology. It's never

829
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: gonna happen. Um, certainly not in any kind of reasonable

830
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: time for him. Mark knows that all that is going

831
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: to happen. It most is like a digital prince sweet

832
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: that like is damages people's eyes and brains. Um. And

833
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: he knows that, but he's angry that Zoom beat him

834
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 1: to the to the punch when the pandemic hit. Um.

835
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 1: And this is his like that's kind of one of

836
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 1: the sinister things about it. Um, there's other sinister ship,

837
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: which we'll talk about in part two. But you know what, guys,

838
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: it's time to end to part one. This is enough

839
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: for part one. Well, we'll talk more about we'll talk

840
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: about what's really frightening about a lot of what Mark's

841
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: trying to build in part two, But for right now,

842
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 1: I want to talk about ending the episode which I

843
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:52,760
Speaker 1: guess I just did Goodbye, Welcome Back. It could happen

844
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: here the show where we're talking right now about the

845
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: metaverse that a bunch of rich people think that you're

846
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: going to want to live in once ruin the regular world.

847
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 1: Um uh. And why it's dogshit and it is dogshit,

848
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: so it's just it's just it's just total dogshit. Um.

849
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: Everything about this, I don't know. It seems like a

850
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: waking nightmare to be to me so far if we're

851
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 1: actually talking about like what they are, what they are

852
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: immediately trying to because a bunch of this is aspirational

853
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: nonsense that as we've stayed at is like you are

854
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: never going to play a perfect game of basketball in

855
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: a mix of real and a R courts with your

856
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 1: friend in Hong Kong. Like that's never going to happen. Never,

857
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: That's not how physics works, that's not how electronics works.

858
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 1: Maybe when we find out how to literally hack the

859
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: human brain, we can like put you into a quasi

860
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 1: seizure state that that that that mimics that. But like

861
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: the closest, the closest thing we have to this right

862
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,959
Speaker 1: now is actually uh VR board games is the best

863
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: is the best example of this. Or you can play

864
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: with you can play Settlers of Catan with your friend,

865
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: a classic across the Yeah, and there's some cool ship

866
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 1: you can do with haptics and haptic feedback is like

867
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 1: the base example of it is when you like touch

868
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,399
Speaker 1: your phone and your phone like vibrates under your hand

869
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: to like let you know that you've you've touched like

870
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 1: a command. And there's there's people who think like at

871
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: some point we would be we may be able to

872
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: make using haptic feedback, like a virtual keyboard that feels

873
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: like a real keyboard. That might be possible. That's still

874
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: that's still like kind of like the idea of a

875
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: keyboard that isn't there but feels like a real keyboard

876
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 1: might be that that's still on the fringes of possibility

877
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: like this, The fucking ship they're showing in this video

878
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 1: is like nonsense. We will have laser cannons before we

879
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,760
Speaker 1: have any of this bullshit, like we will be shooting

880
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: each other in space before we have this nonsense. Um,

881
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: And thank god for that because at least that sounds fun.

882
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: So the actual center of what they've built in terms

883
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 1: of the products that that Facebook is launching now for

884
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: the metaverse, UM, the core of it is Horizon Home

885
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: and Horizon World. And I think Horizon is kind of

886
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: the brand they're going with for all of their different

887
00:43:56,080 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: like meta programs. UM. Horizon Home is the home spaces

888
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 1: thing that they discussed earlier, where people can like make

889
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 1: their own like houses. And one of the things they

890
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: don't talk about in this they keep saying like you

891
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 1: can build whatever you want, you can make it look

892
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: like anything. They don't say a word about how like

893
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 1: decorating your digital home is going to be monetized versus

894
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 1: how much of it will be sweat equity. And again,

895
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 1: like the smart thing would be make it all sweat equity,

896
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,240
Speaker 1: make it like minecraft, make be able to build anything

897
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 1: they can conceive of. If they're actually creative enough and

898
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: spend the time. They won't do that, um as they

899
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: talk about in that like in the video they played

900
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: like we're like, oh, this is a cool world. It

901
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: was made by a developer. Like yeah, you're gonna buy

902
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: the cool ship. Um I don't. I don't know what

903
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: you're gonna buy it. And it's gonna suck because all

904
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: you can do is sit at a table. Yeah, and

905
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 1: because like you can't go into bed, like you can't,

906
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: Like all of this stuff is just cosmetic, like it's

907
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: you're not gonna be tricked into thinking it's real. I've

908
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 1: I've been in cool VR like three D rooms and

909
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 1: like they're cool to look at for like ten minutes. Yeah,

910
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: any boring Yeah, like it's easy, like oh yeah, it's

911
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 1: like the real world, but I can't touch anything. And

912
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,439
Speaker 1: when they show you the stuff that's closer to real,

913
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 1: like the different like people chatting in the metaverse and whatever,

914
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: it doesn't look fun. There's a there's a scene where

915
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:14,720
Speaker 1: they like show people like watching a YouTube video together

916
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: in the metaverse and they're all like these disembodied upper

917
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: torsos because of course VR sets can't can't read your legs,

918
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: so it's like a bunch of torsos floating around a

919
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: maximized YouTube video window. And it's like I would rather

920
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 1: just show a friend my phone. I would even rather

921
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 1: text them a video and being in person with somebody

922
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: watching on a on a phone or even but even

923
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: even if without Like it's the kind I think that

924
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 1: they're expecting that, Like everyone's kind of bummed when they

925
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: send a friend video over signal or text and like

926
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: wait for them. No, I would rather do that than

927
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 1: this ship. I don't want to hang out as a

928
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 1: bunch of torsos around a YouTube. We don't want have

929
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 1: to schedule of VR session every time I want to

930
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 1: share of YouTube video. No, that sounds horrible, and it

931
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 1: sounds like I would constantly have to be in VR.

932
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: Like you talk about how we're not trying to expand

933
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: screen time, but like, am I just waiting around in

934
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: VR to like show friends YouTube? They are really unclear

935
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: about how often you need to be in a headset,

936
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 1: and it's it's kind of suspicious. It's almost like they

937
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 1: don't actually plan on doing anything. I want to play

938
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: another video that they claim to be a use case.

939
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: And the way this video starts is like this actual

940
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: person is in an actual real world concert for some

941
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: guy I've never heard of that Facebook. I think he's

942
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: he's some clearly some sort of musician with a following

943
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 1: the Facebook hired to do a concert for this video,

944
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 1: and she like calls her friend on the metaverse, and

945
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: her friend digitally hops into the concert and they're like,

946
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 1: the digital girl and the real girl are like dancing

947
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: together at the show, which I don't know whatever, Like

948
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: that is more possible than the basketball shit. Um, I

949
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 1: mean yeah, watching having a like a VR version of

950
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: standing in a room where musician plays. Sure, I mean

951
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 1: it's not. Yeah, yeah, I would debate like whether or

952
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: not it's doable. But then after that they see, like

953
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: during the concert, this like digital thing pops up. That's like,

954
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: do you want to go to a free after party? Um?

955
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 1: And first off, all of these after parties will cost

956
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 1: money and they'll all be dogshit, But um, that's the

957
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: same with most real after parties. So I guess that's

958
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: that's at least Facebook accurately delivering on the promise of

959
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: the real world. Um, but I want to play like

960
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: what happens in this metaverse after party that these two

961
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: both hop into digitally after one of them. So like,

962
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: as this starts, the lady who was actually at the

963
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: concert like sits down at home and gets into the metaverse.

964
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 1: Imagine your best friend is at a concert somewhere across

965
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 1: the world. Uh oh, what if you could be there

966
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 1: with her? Yeah? Real? Yeah, real, real and clear? How

967
00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 1: that works? Yeah? Real quick? That the concert? See the

968
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: holographic version? How the person see that? Yeah? Is she

969
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: wearing all that while she's dancing? Everyone wearing VR and

970
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 1: seeing the world through VR. Because I'll tell you about

971
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: Like right now, I'm I in our put put on

972
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 1: I put on Oculus as a joke, and right now

973
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: I have it on the pass through mode, which means

974
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: I can see the real world through my cameras in

975
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 1: the oculus. And you know what it looks like? Shit, Yeah,

976
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 1: it's black and white. It's super grainy. I can't there

977
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: has it has no like exposure range. Everything is like

978
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 1: it's it's like you look like you're wearing a sunglasses

979
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 1: case in your look like the world. But like I

980
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,280
Speaker 1: can't do anything because it all is like a horrible

981
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 1: digital like like I can't like it's not really like

982
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 1: I can't do anything aspects of this one, like at

983
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 1: some point passed through mode will be in color and

984
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 1: the latency will be notice right, like and there won't

985
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 1: be late and seeing like yeah, but it'll but it's

986
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:58,319
Speaker 1: not gonna be still be with your human eyeball. It'll

987
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 1: it'll still be a thing. So that girl is going

988
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 1: to have to be at a concert dancing getting super

989
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: sweaty and like she's wearing something, even if it's as

990
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 1: small as like regular glasses and she's not Like I

991
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 1: guess better, but it's more to the end. But like,

992
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 1: if people are actually gonna developed this technology, the real

993
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 1: way to do it is with a R, not not VR,

994
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: because with a R, yeah, you could have put on

995
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 1: like actual glasses and have like a person show up

996
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:24,879
Speaker 1: on the thing and make it look like they're there,

997
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: well actually still seeing the real world. That's gonna be

998
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: the way to do it. Yeah, And I think that

999
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 1: there's what to do it. Yeah, I think that's what

1000
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 1: they're like claiming here, but it's really unclear how it's

1001
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 1: all going to interface. How the a R is going

1002
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: to interface with like the full VR stuff, Like are

1003
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 1: we going to have two separate sets of gear, one

1004
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: for when we're in the real world and we can't

1005
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 1: be fully immersive and one for when we want to

1006
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 1: dive into the metaverse as turn it around? Do we

1007
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: always carry it around wherever we go? Yeah, but I

1008
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: want to play the section. I sorry, I played the

1009
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: video where they were at the concert just because it

1010
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:55,879
Speaker 1: it looks very silly. I want to play the section

1011
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,839
Speaker 1: where they're at the after party because it's it's dystopian

1012
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,720
Speaker 1: as fun. So here's the all all metaverse after party

1013
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: that looks like a bunch of fucking connect avatars standing

1014
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: around and like a room made out of glowing neon

1015
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,879
Speaker 1: digital room. Yeah, nobody's drinking, which is the only good

1016
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 1: thing to do with an afterparty that's not cocaine. So

1017
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 1: from from the jump, I'm like, well, what is the

1018
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:17,839
Speaker 1: only good thing about an afterparty is if you want

1019
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 1: more drugs and all of the drugs places are closed. Party,

1020
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 1: maybe at the end you can hook up with a

1021
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: digital avatar. Yeah it's anyway, I'm I'm just gonna play

1022
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: this dog shit where they were. This is wild, is it?

1023
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:43,320
Speaker 1: They're just slowly Dancy's a giraffeman. Check this out. Charity

1024
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 1: action for n f T party that looks like ships

1025
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 1: of your favorite song. Yeah, it looks dogs. Yeah. So

1026
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: it's like it's it's a it's a horrible three D chat.

1027
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 1: We are already have these, These already exist, and they're

1028
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: not tons of fun. They're fun is when you're in

1029
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 1: first suits and you're walking around a fake city destroying it.

1030
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 1: That's the only fun way to do this. And the

1031
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 1: thing they're showing in this is that like an autographed

1032
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 1: poster for the concert um is an n f T

1033
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: that you can buy for a charity auction, and like

1034
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 1: as they're looking at it, the actual musician walks by

1035
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: and tells them it looks cool, and so they buy

1036
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 1: it and they have the musician come in for that

1037
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 1: number one to like try to make this kind of like, yeah,

1038
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: you'll be able to do these digital events where you

1039
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: can meet actual celebrities, which like, no, I'm sure celebrities

1040
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 1: will agree to do Q Q and as in the

1041
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:38,839
Speaker 1: multiverse like they do anywhere else. But they're not going

1042
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: to just walk around in some dogshit virtual party because

1043
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 1: they have money and they can do actual fun things

1044
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 1: in the actual real world. They're gonna be fucking supermodels

1045
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 1: while skiing down a mountain in Lake Tahoe. Because they're rich. Um,

1046
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 1: they're going to be like flying in their private jets

1047
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: or driving in a fucking yacht and eating lobster that's

1048
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 1: been tortured. So it tastes better because they're rich, Like

1049
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: they're they're not going to be hanging out in a

1050
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: digital lobby telling you that a fucking dogshit poster in

1051
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 1: f t is cool and that you should buy it. Um,

1052
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: unless you're a millionaire and they want your money because

1053
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 1: they're Nicolas Cage and they have an addiction to buying

1054
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 1: Tarrannosaurus parts. I don't know, it's it's silly, it's it's ridiculous. Um. Yeah.

1055
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: So one of the things that I thought about when

1056
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: I was watching this is like the concept of metaverse culture. Um,

1057
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 1: So like at some point, if this is a thing,

1058
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 1: there's going to be like like if there ever is

1059
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 1: a metaverse, people will develop a culture for it, just

1060
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: like they've developed a culture for Twitter, a culture for Reddit,

1061
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,280
Speaker 1: a culture for Facebook, just as there were like internet

1062
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 1: culture or was fantasy. Yeah, it happens with every community

1063
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 1: you make online. Um. And and that's the thing, Like

1064
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 1: there's no I see no space in this thing that

1065
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg has envisioned as he is presenting it for

1066
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 1: organic evolution of a None of the things that here

1067
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 1: are gonna make people want to form a culture around it,

1068
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: because it's all it looks like, it looks like boring

1069
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 1: yuppie ship, all of it, but none of it is

1070
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: actually looks cool or fun, and none of it, none

1071
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: of it is he's not talking about any of it

1072
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:15,399
Speaker 1: with like the there's no there's no openness in it,

1073
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: like there's no I don't see where a culture could evolve,

1074
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: and if one does, it's going to be directly like

1075
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 1: in opposition to Facebook moderation, um like yeah, um well yeah,

1076
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: and I mean and there's there's an extense to which

1077
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 1: like they can't write because like if you actually let

1078
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 1: people just like do things, like imagine the griefing that's

1079
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: going to happen in one of these spaces, right Like

1080
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: every person's avatar is going to be like sixteen thousand dogs,

1081
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 1: like this is That's literally this all it's going to be, like,

1082
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 1: this is this is this is what Twitch looks like,

1083
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 1: right Like every twitch chat is a guy posting a

1084
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 1: hydramatee of dogs. Like it's like none of none of

1085
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: this can actually work if you let people do literally anything.

1086
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,720
Speaker 1: If you don't let people do anything, like why would

1087
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: you know I'm gonna want to do it? Yeah? Yeah,

1088
00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 1: Like how how are you going to sell them this crap?

1089
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: Like once upon a time there was a game called

1090
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 1: Second Life. I guess it still exists, but we're talking

1091
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 1: people talked about it the way they're talking about the

1092
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 1: metaverse now, and that became just like it was never that.

1093
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 1: But there was like this beautiful moment where this I

1094
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 1: think and she Chung was her name, Um, this like

1095
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 1: culture writer, kind of expert lady was like doing a

1096
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 1: Q and A and Second Life that was like build

1097
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 1: as being this like big event for the platform that

1098
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:27,880
Speaker 1: was going to like make people take it seriously. And

1099
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 1: a bunch of like users showed up and made a

1100
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 1: bunch of floating dicks like float through the room during

1101
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: the interview, so that like while this person was trying

1102
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 1: to talk seriously about Second Life, just like floating cocks

1103
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 1: we zooming past her head the entire time, and it

1104
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 1: was extremely funny and it's it's exactly the kind of

1105
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 1: thing like, yeah, Mark, that's what all of this is

1106
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 1: going to look like. Any mass event is going people

1107
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 1: will find a way to grief it. Um, and that

1108
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 1: will in fact be the thing they most want to do.

1109
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 1: Is that will be the actual culture. Part is fucking

1110
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 1: with Facebook. Yeah you know, but that's the part about

1111
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 1: that that sucks. It's like, yeah, you know. It was

1112
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:01,759
Speaker 1: like you're universal reality thing, right, So like, okay, what

1113
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 1: are people going to do in a virtual reality? It's well, okay,

1114
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:06,359
Speaker 1: you're gonna get You're gonna get a bunch of neo

1115
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,839
Speaker 1: Nazis like figuring out a way to like show you

1116
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: just like the worst ship you've ever seen in your life.

1117
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:13,439
Speaker 1: Like it's it's gonna it's gonna be all the stuff

1118
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 1: from the two thousands were like half of the Internet

1119
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:18,800
Speaker 1: was just like a video. Why this is the thousand

1120
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 1: tends to like half of Twitter is just heading videos,

1121
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 1: And now it's in VR. It's like, yeahs in the metaverse,

1122
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,720
Speaker 1: it's going to be amazing. Some of that's even already

1123
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 1: happening in like VR social media apps. I know of

1124
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: a few specific Nazis involved in January six who networked

1125
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 1: and met with people via of specifically VR chat. So like,

1126
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:42,439
Speaker 1: this is this is already a thing, um And making

1127
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 1: it more broad than like this small, you know, because

1128
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 1: the VR right now is mostly just a small subsect

1129
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 1: of like gaming culture right and people are into it

1130
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 1: because there is VR games that are cool, like like

1131
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 1: Beat Saber is fun, right people game Um. In order

1132
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 1: for them to break this through into the mainstream, they

1133
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: need to make it appealing some way. And the only

1134
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:05,760
Speaker 1: way they're making appealing right now is by doing meetings

1135
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 1: and like concerts. So the next part I Want to

1136
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 1: Play doesn't say a lot about the future marks trying

1137
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: to build, but it's very funny because it's him sitting

1138
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 1: down with a woman who works in his gaming department

1139
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:18,839
Speaker 1: and she's walking him through like what games are going

1140
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 1: to be integrated into the metaverse? And it fucking reads

1141
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 1: like and I think you should leave sketch, Like it

1142
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 1: feels like a sketch where the joke is that everyone

1143
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 1: is awkward and not talking the way human beings talk.

1144
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: And in case you can't watch this chunk of the

1145
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:35,720
Speaker 1: video and it starts at about like nineteen thirty four. UM.

1146
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: In the actual Facebook video, all of the video games

1147
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 1: they're talking about, like look Dogship, they look like the

1148
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 1: Kirkland brand of like popular like fighting games and fps

1149
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 1: s and stuff. None of them look very good. Um,

1150
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna play a clip from this because it's

1151
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:54,879
Speaker 1: very funny. Bailed out active communities be Saver has a

1152
00:56:54,920 --> 00:57:02,800
Speaker 1: passionate community and a million dollars and less pressed around

1153
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 1: a great example of the games releasing fresh content. They've

1154
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 1: actually been working on involving the way that you inter

1155
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 1: wrap with the tracks and feel the music, the way

1156
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: he's nodding in this, like his digital avatar looks more

1157
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 1: like a person. Here's some beat saber yeaheah, it looks

1158
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 1: like regular beat saber. Yeah, but it's it's VR. It's

1159
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 1: a it's already as VR. Yeah, it's already a VR game.

1160
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 1: You can't wait to play this, and you can already

1161
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 1: play with incredible artists to release new music puts all

1162
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 1: the time. You can do this a little more than

1163
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 1: question been working more of this metaverse prison take, Oh God,

1164
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 1: every scene where she's talking to him and he's just

1165
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 1: like Bobblehead nodding just a little bit, but not like

1166
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: it's he looks. Mark actually will benefit from the metaverse,

1167
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: like outside of a financial thing, because a a sculpted

1168
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: three D representation of him will be a thousand times better,

1169
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: more human than he looks like, more of a person. Yeah,

1170
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 1: it's I mean, it's just like he's scripted it badly

1171
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 1: and he's a narcissist, so he has to be the

1172
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 1: one to present it. Again a small number one, if

1173
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,439
Speaker 1: Steve Jobs were doing this, Number one, he wouldn't because

1174
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 1: he understood what people wanted from technology. But if he

1175
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 1: were doing something like this, he would introduce like little

1176
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 1: chunks of it, and then he would have a famous

1177
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 1: person who's charismatic introduced the rest of it, like, yeah,

1178
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: that's the like it wouldn't be it wouldn't introduce how

1179
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 1: I'm sitting like a bobblehead listening, and he would introduce

1180
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: VR and a R into a way that actually integrets

1181
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 1: how people use the Internet, all right, because there is

1182
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:37,600
Speaker 1: ways that there is ways of doing it. It's not

1183
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 1: this like super monetized n f T like bullshit holographic

1184
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:46,600
Speaker 1: fake stuff. Yeah, and there's there's aspects of this, like

1185
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 1: he goes through after this, like there's a bunch of

1186
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 1: gaming stuff, which is impossible for the reasons we've talked about,

1187
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 1: and then there's aspects of it that seemed cool, like

1188
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 1: there's a scene where like an architect gets onto his

1189
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 1: digital office and like somebody sends him, uh, schematics too

1190
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 1: of a building they're making, and he's able to generate

1191
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 1: a three D and walk around the building like, Okay,

1192
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 1: that actually seems it seems like useful, Like you've developed

1193
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 1: a use case for the all of the architects out there.

1194
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 1: It's it's I'm still not convinced that CAD would actually

1195
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 1: be better in three D than it would be like, sure,

1196
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 1: it's I I think it may someday. I think it

1197
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 1: could be. Like if you are one of the concreasingly

1198
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 1: small number of people who can afford to like build

1199
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: a house of your own, I can see why it

1200
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 1: would be neat to be like, Okay, well let's do

1201
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 1: a three D render of the house and I can

1202
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 1: walk through it and I could maybe make changes at

1203
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 1: the last moment. As I'm kind of experiencing that is

1204
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 1: definitely useful where a window is like yeah, I can that.

1205
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 1: That seems like something number one Technologically you could do

1206
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 1: that more or less. Now, Um, I don't think it's

1207
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: it's not gonna be as instantaneous as this, but if

1208
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 1: you give it time to render it could be done,

1209
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 1: and it it's something that a number of people might

1210
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 1: find useful. But again that's a niche product because like

1211
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 1: eighteen people in our generation are rying homes. I mean

1212
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 1: also it's it's it's expensive to develop because you would

1213
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 1: have just modeling an actual real life location is a

1214
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 1: lot of work. Yum. Now there is there is a

1215
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of technology that's getting way better

1216
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 1: at it by machine cameras um and like basically filming

1217
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 1: a space and and the community can reconstruct it pretty accurately.

1218
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 1: Um that that that is a growing field. But still

1219
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 1: it is is it's a very niche you know area

1220
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 1: at least at a yeah, so I the thing that

1221
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: is so anyway, there's aspects of this that are ridiculous,

1222
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 1: aspects of this that seemed neat, But the longer you

1223
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 1: watch it, the thing that comes becomes really clear is

1224
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 1: that all he's really advertising is mass surveillance. Yea. Yeah,

1225
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 1: there's a point in this video where they're showing you

1226
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 1: how they can like map a real world location so

1227
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 1: you can be in your actual house, put on your

1228
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 1: VR glasses, um and it can map the your actual

1229
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:54,760
Speaker 1: home digitally in real time and as you and as

1230
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 1: you pick up real things in your house, you you

1231
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:00,120
Speaker 1: see them being picked up in VR and presume the

1232
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 1: other people in the VR could see it, which we

1233
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: are not quite there yet. I stay pretty here in

1234
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 1: VR technology, we're getting close to this, but we're not.

1235
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 1: We're not quite there. I mean we're we're we're actually

1236
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 1: we actually are where what they show in the video.

1237
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna play you a second from it because

1238
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 1: i want to show you something here at least, I mean,

1239
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 1: like like consumer products. We're not We're not at this

1240
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 1: point yet. Yeah, and I want to show you, uh

1241
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 1: where we are because this video they're showing like actual footage.

1242
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 1: So they have built this thing. But there's a catch,

1243
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 1: and so I'm just gonna play it right now, right

1244
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:34,440
Speaker 1: out the researcher. So what's critical here is that this

1245
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 1: is all happening in real time. So if you I've

1246
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:39,640
Speaker 1: just paused it, well you've got here. On one side,

1247
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:42,680
Speaker 1: there's a woman in a real like house, sitting and

1248
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:46,040
Speaker 1: picking up like a toy home on her couch. And

1249
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:48,080
Speaker 1: then on the left you see the VR version of

1250
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:50,440
Speaker 1: her house, which looks close to photo realistic and like

1251
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 1: the house that she's holding in the real world is

1252
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 1: floating in the same way that she's holding it, Like

1253
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:56,560
Speaker 1: her body isn't there, like the stuff she's interacting with is.

1254
01:01:57,160 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 1: But if you look at the house she's holding. The

1255
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 1: reason that they're able to do this and it really

1256
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 1: does work is it's covered in sensors. And and actually

1257
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 1: every single thing in the real house is covered in

1258
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 1: sensors because that's the only way for this to worverything

1259
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 1: that's moving is covered in sensors. Yeah, yeah, and it

1260
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 1: it is impressive, like as a proof of concept, like this,

1261
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 1: this is here, we can do this, but like it's

1262
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:18,200
Speaker 1: still light years away from practical and more to the point,

1263
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: when you look at this, you realize that, like, well,

1264
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 1: if this is ever going to work, the only way

1265
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 1: to make it work is for Facebook, through this service,

1266
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 1: to map your entire home in real time, every hour

1267
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:34,840
Speaker 1: of all day. And they also go on to talk

1268
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 1: about like how you're gonna have just your commands and

1269
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 1: like you'll be able to like make an expression or

1270
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 1: like a hand gesture and that will do things, which

1271
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 1: means that like this service isn't just learning what's in

1272
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 1: your home and what you do with the things in

1273
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:49,520
Speaker 1: your home. It's it's learning your facial expressions and your

1274
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 1: gestures and like what they mean and interpreting those at

1275
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 1: all times. I can kind of explain where oculus which

1276
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 1: is over Facebook. I think they're technically renaming oculus yea

1277
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 1: spring to just calling it the metic quest but what

1278
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 1: wait wait wait, the medical quest that that that's that's

1279
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 1: what they're calling it instead of instead of oculus UM.

1280
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 1: So where where that right now? Is basically, uh, the

1281
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 1: only kind of real world interactivity that they have for

1282
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 1: their VR headsets. Again for like the consumer models, I

1283
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 1: don't know, it's in link development. UM is hand tracking.

1284
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 1: This this is the thing they've been working on for

1285
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:28,920
Speaker 1: a long time. Is that you put on the headset

1286
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:32,280
Speaker 1: and the camera like the cameras and depth sensors built

1287
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 1: into the headset can see your hands and like you said,

1288
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:37,760
Speaker 1: you have like gesture controls where you can do certain

1289
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 1: things in your hand and it will make certain things happen.

1290
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 1: This is the only interactivity that that we have. It's okay,

1291
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 1: it's not perfect, like it's it is. It is better

1292
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 1: than a lot of the other hand tracking systems from

1293
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 1: other companies, but like it's it's it is very much

1294
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:54,440
Speaker 1: a work in progress, UM. And the way to make

1295
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 1: this work is by is very good depth sensing cameras,

1296
01:03:57,640 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 1: which I think Apple makes some of the best ones

1297
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 1: right now that they put into the iPhone. Uh. The

1298
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 1: other way of doing this is with lighthouses. So this

1299
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 1: is like separate um separate like uh, separate cameras that

1300
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 1: you set up around the corners of your house that

1301
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 1: project different like wavelengths of light and they get it

1302
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 1: received back, so they can map your house UM with

1303
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 1: not just cameras but also like like in like infrared

1304
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 1: sensors and that kind of thing. So these are these

1305
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 1: are like the two methods of doing it. Facebook is

1306
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 1: really trying to go full on, full on to the

1307
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,960
Speaker 1: everything is built into the headset thing. So no, so no,

1308
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: like lighthouses. Everything is just depth depth sensing cameras. So

1309
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 1: that's why they're working on hand tracking so much because

1310
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 1: that's something you can actually do. But like, I can't

1311
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 1: pick up anything, um, Like the only thing I can

1312
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 1: pick up is my controllers, which because they they have

1313
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 1: sensors built in, they can be rendered in the actual

1314
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:52,000
Speaker 1: game the same way like my hand can be, so

1315
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 1: that that that's where they're at for that for the

1316
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 1: consumer products get more than it's getting developed. Again where

1317
01:04:57,600 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 1: they're at you think about what Facebook has already done

1318
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 1: with the formation you provided, and how so much of

1319
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:05,400
Speaker 1: their money comes from selling your data. Um. The only

1320
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:09,160
Speaker 1: way for this to work that they've they've passed always

1321
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 1: watching everything, every moment of your existence, including like your

1322
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:16,920
Speaker 1: micro expressions, which is why oulan in the tiny little

1323
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:21,400
Speaker 1: box here. And here's the thing. If they were to

1324
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:24,560
Speaker 1: actually develop the technology, which I don't think is impossible,

1325
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 1: although it's not particularly close. Um, it's not going to

1326
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 1: be cheap to store all that. So in order to

1327
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:33,600
Speaker 1: make it a tile outside, well, it's going to be

1328
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:35,440
Speaker 1: cloud based. But in order to make it like cloud

1329
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 1: isn't free um in a subscription probably I think you'll

1330
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 1: pay some, but I think in order to make it affordable, um,

1331
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 1: so that more people are on it, they're just going

1332
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 1: to sell your data in a way that has never

1333
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 1: been in a and and the government will have access

1334
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:56,680
Speaker 1: to it. Like is it's actually like the thing that

1335
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 1: he is actually proposing here is I want to build

1336
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 1: a machine gun odd that knows your sins, like that

1337
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 1: knows when your hearts in your house, like before you smile.

1338
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:09,360
Speaker 1: That can predict like when you're about to make a

1339
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 1: gesture or laugh because it is so accurately mapped your

1340
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:17,840
Speaker 1: body and motions. Um, it's actually a nightmare. Like when

1341
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 1: you really think about what he is trying to build

1342
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 1: here and it's like, well, what, what's what what's the

1343
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 1: actual use case for this? And it's like, well, okay,

1344
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:26,960
Speaker 1: so you have you have a bunch of spustal forces guys.

1345
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:28,960
Speaker 1: You put them in a VR thing and then you

1346
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 1: know you can you can, you can you can have

1347
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 1: them drill on knowing exactly where all the rooms in

1348
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:35,120
Speaker 1: the houses, where everyone is in, where everyone is in

1349
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:38,360
Speaker 1: a house any given time. It's like, oh, hey this

1350
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 1: this is gonna be great. This is yeah, it's it's great. Yeah,

1351
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 1: it's it's really cool. Um, they have a So there

1352
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:48,720
Speaker 1: is a little bit here briefly about where like Mark

1353
01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 1: talks about how the last year or so has been

1354
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:56,439
Speaker 1: um fucking uh. The term he uses is humbling for them.

1355
01:06:57,080 --> 01:07:00,440
Speaker 1: Oh god yeah, and you you kind of think that

1356
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:03,440
Speaker 1: like he's about to say that, like, oh, because we

1357
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 1: we made life dramatically worse and our service was integral

1358
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:11,880
Speaker 1: in several ethnic cleansings and a couple of civil wars

1359
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:15,640
Speaker 1: and like hate crimes on a scale that was unimaginable

1360
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 1: before it really came into being, or that we thought

1361
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:20,360
Speaker 1: had been at least we thought had been consigned to

1362
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 1: a century or so ago before Facebook came into being.

1363
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,760
Speaker 1: But no, that's not why it's humbling. Why he says

1364
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: it's been humbling is that Facebook has been developing services

1365
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 1: for other platforms like the App Store, where they don't

1366
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:33,800
Speaker 1: have total control, and that sucks. And that's like the

1367
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 1: thing that that's the that's him admitting a little bit

1368
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:37,720
Speaker 1: that like a big part of this is they're trying

1369
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:40,560
Speaker 1: to build a service the entire Internet gets filtered through

1370
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 1: that they completely control, so that they are never in

1371
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 1: anyone else's wheelhouse, Like everything is done through Facebook. And

1372
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:49,400
Speaker 1: with Facebook's approval as opposed to them, they want to

1373
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 1: get face Facebook. Facebook is going to become the state. Yeah,

1374
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:56,919
Speaker 1: And that's the thing that it says so much about

1375
01:07:57,080 --> 01:07:59,640
Speaker 1: Mark that he's like, what's humbling? Isn't all of them

1376
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 1: a stake? Because I've made It's that periodically I have

1377
01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:06,320
Speaker 1: not had total control. Um, it's great. Um. He then,

1378
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 1: from immediately from this says that if we all work

1379
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:11,160
Speaker 1: at it, all of us. The metaverse can reach a

1380
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:16,560
Speaker 1: billion people by the next decade um, which is very funny.

1381
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:20,599
Speaker 1: Um that he thinks that that's like an enticing fucking thing.

1382
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:25,160
Speaker 1: So one of the use cases they try to present

1383
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 1: is they have a beauty influencer who like made like

1384
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 1: a fucking candle line or something, uh, that she's sold

1385
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 1: on Instagram and she's she's very successful in Instagram. They

1386
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 1: bring this lady in and number one as soon as

1387
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:38,120
Speaker 1: they started interviewing her, it's it's it's what I was

1388
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:40,599
Speaker 1: saying about. You have a higher a celebrity to do this, Mark,

1389
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:43,600
Speaker 1: You're not charismatic. She's immediately the most engaging person in

1390
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:46,599
Speaker 1: the entire presentation because she's a successful Like she's someone

1391
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:49,439
Speaker 1: who understands how she appears on camera, Um, how to

1392
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:52,599
Speaker 1: make herself seem likable on camera, how to like interact

1393
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:54,840
Speaker 1: with the world on a camera, and nobody else in

1394
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:58,160
Speaker 1: this video understands that, Um, which is just funny. It's

1395
01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 1: not particularly like say anything other and that, like, you

1396
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:04,559
Speaker 1: have professionals do difficult things, Mark, don't don't hire your

1397
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:07,760
Speaker 1: weird gawky engineering staff to like be the faces of

1398
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:10,439
Speaker 1: this thing. They're not good at this, and neither are you.

1399
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:12,720
Speaker 1: I just want to point out, so he said that

1400
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:15,559
Speaker 1: like he can get one billion people the next decade.

1401
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 1: So far there's only been sixteen million vir headsets sold ever. Yeah,

1402
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:23,200
Speaker 1: so getting that to the point of a billion, it

1403
01:09:23,280 --> 01:09:26,920
Speaker 1: seems like quite quite the challenge. I mean, it is

1404
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:29,559
Speaker 1: a challenge, but you could look at like how quickly

1405
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:33,200
Speaker 1: smartphones went from Yeah, except smartphones were useful in improving

1406
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 1: the world in very obvious ways, whereas the metaverse and

1407
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:38,240
Speaker 1: even VR in general doesn't improve the world from us

1408
01:09:38,280 --> 01:09:40,559
Speaker 1: people in obvious ways. Yeah, but that that's kind of

1409
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:42,800
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, is that, like, the thing that is

1410
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:45,479
Speaker 1: stupid and doomed about this isn't like, oh, you would

1411
01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:47,880
Speaker 1: have to sell so many headsets. If it was legitimately

1412
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:51,120
Speaker 1: something every single person wanted on their head, they would

1413
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:52,760
Speaker 1: sell a billion. They would sell a billion in a

1414
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:55,880
Speaker 1: couple of years, you know. Um, but they haven't made

1415
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 1: that look like like so this, this beauty influencer thing

1416
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:01,960
Speaker 1: is an example of the trying to like explain here's

1417
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:05,120
Speaker 1: something that people will find cool about the metaverse, um,

1418
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:06,639
Speaker 1: and the way they do it is like talking about

1419
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:09,040
Speaker 1: how you can have a digital storefront where like people

1420
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:12,040
Speaker 1: can't just buy products, but they can interact with you. Um.

1421
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:13,719
Speaker 1: She talks about how it will be good for letting

1422
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:15,800
Speaker 1: her interact with their fans, but like bringing them into

1423
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:20,799
Speaker 1: my home, which sounds like a fucking we love our fans,

1424
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:23,919
Speaker 1: but like, no, I do not want anyone from anybody

1425
01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:28,439
Speaker 1: goddamn home. I barely want my friends in my home

1426
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:32,719
Speaker 1: half the time. Like absolutely not. Um, they didn't present

1427
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:34,720
Speaker 1: us with a use case of how a brand, in

1428
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:37,120
Speaker 1: this case, this candle company this lady made that's big

1429
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:39,479
Speaker 1: on Instagram could release like a new candle flavor and

1430
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 1: launch a digital experience with it so you can buy

1431
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:44,800
Speaker 1: both real and digital products. It's kind of unclear in

1432
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 1: the video whether or not you're paying for the digital

1433
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:51,000
Speaker 1: experience or is it like free when you buy the candle. Um. Yeah,

1434
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:53,439
Speaker 1: it's like I don't games is like developing. It's like

1435
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:56,120
Speaker 1: you know, dropping products at the same time in the

1436
01:10:56,200 --> 01:10:58,400
Speaker 1: real world in the digital world, but like the digital

1437
01:10:58,479 --> 01:11:00,240
Speaker 1: version is free because it's like because it's like an

1438
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 1: add right, you could try something out virtually before you

1439
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:05,920
Speaker 1: buy it physically, and that's what like Epic Games is doing.

1440
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:08,840
Speaker 1: And honestly, I think epics version of the Metavors is

1441
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:13,080
Speaker 1: slightly more hinged. They understand more what people actually want. Yeah,

1442
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 1: because like all the stuff they're trying with Fortnite again,

1443
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem fun for me. But at least it's

1444
01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:20,080
Speaker 1: like an extension of how people use the Internet already,

1445
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:24,800
Speaker 1: whereas Facebook's is not that. Yeah. And and Mark never

1446
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 1: really understood what people wanted. He he accidentally did basically

1447
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:32,120
Speaker 1: to make something else, Like he wanted a place to

1448
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:35,240
Speaker 1: share pictures of ladies he thought was hot. Um, and

1449
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:37,599
Speaker 1: he accidentally built a thing that like gave people something

1450
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:39,040
Speaker 1: they did one, which was a way to stay in

1451
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:41,320
Speaker 1: contact with their friends from high school in college as

1452
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:43,559
Speaker 1: they grew older. Right, Like that was the thing about

1453
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:46,519
Speaker 1: Facebook that made it get huge originally. Um. And he

1454
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 1: hasn't learned anything since. He's just been smart. He's he's

1455
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:51,240
Speaker 1: hired people who are smart enough to be like, hey,

1456
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:53,160
Speaker 1: Instagram is probably going to be a big deal by that,

1457
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:56,880
Speaker 1: you know, um like that that, but I haven't seen

1458
01:11:57,200 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 1: anything that's made me think like Mark gets what people want.

1459
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:02,600
Speaker 1: And this has just made it clear that like he

1460
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:04,840
Speaker 1: absolutely doesn't. So I want to play this video of

1461
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,519
Speaker 1: like this is the digital experience to go with this

1462
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 1: fucking candle that they're they're framing is like a piece

1463
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:13,639
Speaker 1: of art that everybody's gonna want to interact with candles.

1464
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:17,799
Speaker 1: It's it's incredible because it again feels like a nightmare.

1465
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:20,559
Speaker 1: I am. I am a big candle fan, so same here.

1466
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:24,679
Speaker 1: What if I effect to transports us something to magic

1467
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:33,840
Speaker 1: It's like a shitty arboretum. I don't do what it

1468
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:36,760
Speaker 1: has to do with candles. It's Jackie. As we walk

1469
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:41,360
Speaker 1: in this amazing world, I just feel like this is

1470
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:45,320
Speaker 1: like endless possibilities of my imaginations. I can't even begin

1471
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:48,280
Speaker 1: to imagine. But I don't understand what has that to

1472
01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 1: do with candles. Yeah, like they have again like there's

1473
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:55,719
Speaker 1: I can walk around, like why can't begin to imagine

1474
01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:57,439
Speaker 1: all the things people are going to I can walk

1475
01:12:57,479 --> 01:13:00,280
Speaker 1: around digital spaces and like quest it's again it's fun

1476
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:02,640
Speaker 1: for like thirty seconds, and then you see everything You're like, well,

1477
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:04,519
Speaker 1: I can't touch it or smell it or actually feel

1478
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 1: it or do anything. So I'm gonna go back and

1479
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:09,640
Speaker 1: have a soda and yeah play and like read a

1480
01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:13,120
Speaker 1: book or something like. And they've brought in this influencer

1481
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:15,559
Speaker 1: who like used one of their other services in a

1482
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:18,200
Speaker 1: way they hadn't initially intended and was successful in that,

1483
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:20,240
Speaker 1: which is not a bad idea in its surface, Like yeah,

1484
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:23,960
Speaker 1: bring in creative people and let them play around and

1485
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 1: make something new to show people how exciting this is, right,

1486
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:29,639
Speaker 1: that's the smart thing to do. But all they've presented

1487
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:32,479
Speaker 1: is like, look, it's a tiny little weird arboretum. You

1488
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:35,559
Speaker 1: can walk around and after buying a candle, and it's like, well,

1489
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:38,559
Speaker 1: I like candles, but that's not fun. That doesn't sound

1490
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:41,720
Speaker 1: like a fun. Addition, part of the metaverse is like

1491
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:45,519
Speaker 1: making like interactivity more like be able to interact with

1492
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:48,519
Speaker 1: with digital things, and like that's not interacting, that's just

1493
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:51,639
Speaker 1: walking around like unless I can like take of like

1494
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:55,360
Speaker 1: a bazooka and blow up our like the candle, you know,

1495
01:13:56,160 --> 01:13:59,559
Speaker 1: like that's like you have to do something. Like all

1496
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 1: of the V are games that are fun, like like

1497
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:04,080
Speaker 1: like like like a super hot or like something. It's about,

1498
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:06,519
Speaker 1: you know, picking up objects in VR and throwing them

1499
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:10,280
Speaker 1: at people. That's fun and you likes, unless I can

1500
01:14:10,360 --> 01:14:12,000
Speaker 1: pick up this candle and it's all people with it

1501
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:14,080
Speaker 1: in the game, I don't see what really the dry

1502
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:18,599
Speaker 1: like what's what's exciting about this? You were saying something, Chris, Oh,

1503
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 1: I guess you know. The thing I keep coming back

1504
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:22,840
Speaker 1: to with this is it the only way this and this,

1505
01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:24,960
Speaker 1: literally any of this makes any sense if it's just

1506
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 1: like a chip in your brain, just because all of it,

1507
01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:29,680
Speaker 1: all of it is built around that. But it's but

1508
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 1: it's not like it can't be like we don't the

1509
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:33,439
Speaker 1: technology for that won't exist for like ages and so

1510
01:14:33,479 --> 01:14:36,080
Speaker 1: there it's like it's it's like they're they're selling some

1511
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:39,040
Speaker 1: of it definitely is headset based, like that arboretum thing.

1512
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:43,439
Speaker 1: But even yeah, but like I mean I think even that, right,

1513
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:46,200
Speaker 1: like okay, so why would you want Like yeah, you're

1514
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:48,000
Speaker 1: if you're saying, like why would you It's like, Okay,

1515
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:51,360
Speaker 1: it's interesting for like ten minutes, right, Yeah. The only

1516
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:53,160
Speaker 1: way that would be like the only way that would

1517
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:55,160
Speaker 1: be an actually interesting experience is if you could get

1518
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:57,920
Speaker 1: all the full century experience you can smell and feel, yeah, right,

1519
01:14:57,960 --> 01:14:59,479
Speaker 1: and that that's that's that's like, that's that's the thing

1520
01:14:59,479 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 1: where like think only makes sense if it's like a

1521
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:02,800
Speaker 1: brain ship. Well, I mean there's there's two versions. There's

1522
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 1: one it's a brain ship or two it's a video game,

1523
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:06,519
Speaker 1: and Epic Games is doing the thing where it's a

1524
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:10,160
Speaker 1: video game, and and that's slightly yes, yeah, yeah, but

1525
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:13,040
Speaker 1: like they don't you know, but they're they're trying to

1526
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:15,720
Speaker 1: sell like and I think part of what's going on

1527
01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:18,360
Speaker 1: here is also just like this is this is designed

1528
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:22,280
Speaker 1: to like like, this is designed to like trick Silicon

1529
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:27,080
Speaker 1: Valley investors. Yes, that is like yeah, and those people

1530
01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 1: I think are just gonna be like, oh, well, we'll

1531
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:30,960
Speaker 1: have brain ships eventually, and so we'll just we'll talk

1532
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 1: about probably talk about that part more at the end,

1533
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:35,519
Speaker 1: because yeah, this is just a scam. This is just

1534
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 1: a scam, and it is like again to talk about

1535
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:40,479
Speaker 1: like the dystopian aspects of this, Chris, as you brought up,

1536
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:43,519
Speaker 1: one of the aspects is that like it's a complete

1537
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:46,240
Speaker 1: panopticon of perfect surveillance. If they actually make this thing

1538
01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:48,439
Speaker 1: a number two is the only way to do most

1539
01:15:48,479 --> 01:15:51,200
Speaker 1: of what they're talking about that's cool is to give

1540
01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:55,000
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg physical control over human beings brain chemistry on

1541
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:57,320
Speaker 1: a global scale, which I think it is a bad

1542
01:15:57,360 --> 01:16:01,840
Speaker 1: idea for that. I don't I don't want to walk

1543
01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:06,000
Speaker 1: around in a weird candle room that badly, Like to

1544
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:08,280
Speaker 1: your point, Chris about like how it's you know, there's

1545
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:11,719
Speaker 1: no sensory stuff. Is like like the most popular VR games,

1546
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:13,800
Speaker 1: the reason why they work so well, there's why that

1547
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:15,840
Speaker 1: they don't, like Break the Uncanny Valley is because you're

1548
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:18,000
Speaker 1: in like a barren land, like you know, like the Saber.

1549
01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 1: You're not in a place you know you're in the

1550
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 1: in the game interface for like for Super Hot, you're

1551
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:27,800
Speaker 1: in like whitewashed, abstract like concrete spaces, right, so like

1552
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:30,000
Speaker 1: there's nothing, there is nothing to smell or feels like

1553
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:32,160
Speaker 1: you don't feel like you're missing anything because you're in

1554
01:16:32,160 --> 01:16:35,080
Speaker 1: a very like stripped down version of reality. There is

1555
01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:37,559
Speaker 1: a really good of VR game, I forget what it's called,

1556
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:39,360
Speaker 1: but it's it's based on like an office and you're

1557
01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:41,679
Speaker 1: like fighting robots to break out of like this capitalist

1558
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:44,719
Speaker 1: office room. And it's cool because like, yeah, it's miserable

1559
01:16:44,720 --> 01:16:46,439
Speaker 1: because it's like it's like an office space. You feel

1560
01:16:46,479 --> 01:16:49,240
Speaker 1: like you're in an office because it's nothing about it's exciting. Right,

1561
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:52,760
Speaker 1: video games that are in like lush worlds feel so

1562
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:55,479
Speaker 1: much more like disconnected because you have like a weird

1563
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:56,479
Speaker 1: like you have you have like you have like an

1564
01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:58,880
Speaker 1: uncanny valley thing, but instead of like a face or

1565
01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:02,120
Speaker 1: a person, it's like environment. We're running a long time.

1566
01:17:02,160 --> 01:17:03,439
Speaker 1: I want to move to something that I think is

1567
01:17:03,479 --> 01:17:06,120
Speaker 1: important here, which is there is one moment in this

1568
01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:08,880
Speaker 1: video where they try to address the fact that they've

1569
01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:11,080
Speaker 1: done a tremendous amount of damage to the world and

1570
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:15,960
Speaker 1: they have repeatedly failed to like uh anticipate dangers that

1571
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:17,840
Speaker 1: their services have, so they need to like deal with

1572
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:19,280
Speaker 1: that at some point. And this is like, well, what

1573
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:21,439
Speaker 1: about if like what about bad things that could happen?

1574
01:17:21,479 --> 01:17:23,720
Speaker 1: What if like what about like unintended things? What about

1575
01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:25,559
Speaker 1: like ways in which this could be harmful to society

1576
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:29,320
Speaker 1: that you haven't foreseen. So, because they're not completely stupid,

1577
01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:32,000
Speaker 1: in order to address that, they bring on a well

1578
01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:34,280
Speaker 1: dressed uh or not well dressed, but they bring on

1579
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:37,400
Speaker 1: like a friendly British man um who kind of kind

1580
01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:40,320
Speaker 1: of reads as like a like a scientific kind of

1581
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:43,080
Speaker 1: expert guy. They bring on a charming British person to

1582
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:45,880
Speaker 1: like talk about how they're going to not not destroy

1583
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:49,360
Speaker 1: the world. And this is very telling so far. It's

1584
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:52,479
Speaker 1: it's such visionary stuff. But as you mentioned early on

1585
01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:56,320
Speaker 1: with all big technological advances that are inevitably going to

1586
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:59,720
Speaker 1: be in all sorts of challenges and uncertainties. And I

1587
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:02,400
Speaker 1: know you talked about this a bit already, but people

1588
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:04,280
Speaker 1: want to know how we're going to do all this

1589
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:07,360
Speaker 1: in a responsible way, and especially that we play our

1590
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:10,160
Speaker 1: part in helping to keep people safe and protect their

1591
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:14,240
Speaker 1: privacy online. Yeah, that's right, This is incredibly important. The

1592
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:16,520
Speaker 1: way I look at it is that in the past,

1593
01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:20,839
Speaker 1: the speed that new technologies emerged sometimes left policy makers

1594
01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:24,040
Speaker 1: and regulators playing catch up. So on the one hand,

1595
01:18:24,320 --> 01:18:27,080
Speaker 1: companies get accused of charging your head too quickly, and

1596
01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:30,240
Speaker 1: on the other, tech people feel that progress can't afford

1597
01:18:30,280 --> 01:18:33,680
Speaker 1: to wait for the slower pace of regulation. And I

1598
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:36,000
Speaker 1: really think that it doesn't have to be the case

1599
01:18:36,080 --> 01:18:39,240
Speaker 1: this time around, because we have years until the metaverse

1600
01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:42,559
Speaker 1: we envision is fully realized. So this is the start

1601
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:47,439
Speaker 1: of the journey, not the end. So that's telling UH

1602
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:50,559
Speaker 1: that he's like, we don't need to worry about like

1603
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:55,719
Speaker 1: we don't need it, Like it'll be regulated properly, it'll

1604
01:18:55,760 --> 01:18:57,559
Speaker 1: be safe enough, because it's going to take so long

1605
01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:00,600
Speaker 1: to figure all this out that surely we will anticipate

1606
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:03,160
Speaker 1: and deal with all of the potentially toxic side effects

1607
01:19:03,160 --> 01:19:06,000
Speaker 1: of this technology ahead of time. Um. And if you

1608
01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:08,200
Speaker 1: believe that, I would say, take a look at Facebook's

1609
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:12,040
Speaker 1: track record with that kind of thing. Um. But they

1610
01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:14,200
Speaker 1: are smart and having a charming British man do it,

1611
01:19:14,240 --> 01:19:17,320
Speaker 1: that's the right guy to have in the only aspect

1612
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:19,200
Speaker 1: of good casting in this that is the right guy

1613
01:19:19,240 --> 01:19:21,559
Speaker 1: to have come on and try to allay people's fears

1614
01:19:22,400 --> 01:19:24,960
Speaker 1: that this will destroy society. You bring you bring a

1615
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:26,960
Speaker 1: charming British man in, you know, that's how you do

1616
01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:30,599
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Um, that's when I get canceled

1617
01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:33,280
Speaker 1: for the things I've been doing overseas. Um, I'm going

1618
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:35,920
Speaker 1: to hire a British person to defend myself. Do they

1619
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:38,600
Speaker 1: make any more comments about like a R glasses or

1620
01:19:38,720 --> 01:19:42,200
Speaker 1: VR quite a few. I wanted to move on to that. Um,

1621
01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:46,040
Speaker 1: even though yeah, we're so um they talk about they

1622
01:19:46,040 --> 01:19:48,760
Speaker 1: have a whole section where they're they're talking about the

1623
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:51,519
Speaker 1: actual glasses they have. So they announced the number one

1624
01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:54,960
Speaker 1: they have a project. The goal, as he repeatedly says,

1625
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:57,680
Speaker 1: is to make a quote normal, good looking pair of

1626
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:01,760
Speaker 1: glasses that do all this stuff, which that is yeah. Um,

1627
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:03,479
Speaker 1: and he he does in order as like a proof

1628
01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:05,759
Speaker 1: of concept, he shows us these a R ray bands

1629
01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:08,640
Speaker 1: that actually look legitimately rad They look like normal at

1630
01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:11,599
Speaker 1: least the privn't touched a pair of these in my hands,

1631
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:14,280
Speaker 1: but the the the videos that are supposed to be

1632
01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:16,200
Speaker 1: these real products show a pair of what looked like

1633
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:18,640
Speaker 1: normal ray bands that you can take pictures and videos with,

1634
01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:20,600
Speaker 1: you can answer phone calls on, you can do like

1635
01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:23,080
Speaker 1: video phone calls on them, and actually that they seem

1636
01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:26,840
Speaker 1: neat and like they look like normal glasses. Um, and

1637
01:20:27,200 --> 01:20:30,840
Speaker 1: that is pretty cool. Um. They go kind of pivot

1638
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:33,160
Speaker 1: from that to announcing that like they have this new thing,

1639
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:37,000
Speaker 1: Project nizar Um, which oh I looked up what nazarre

1640
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:40,400
Speaker 1: means a little bit ago. It's probably dystopian. Uh No,

1641
01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:44,320
Speaker 1: I think it was just yeah, uh, it's a town

1642
01:20:44,400 --> 01:20:45,960
Speaker 1: or it's a surf spot, right, it's a place and

1643
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:48,679
Speaker 1: I think Portugal where there's like great waves and Mark

1644
01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:50,760
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg is really into surfing. He plays a surfing game

1645
01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:52,439
Speaker 1: at one point in this That is one of the

1646
01:20:52,479 --> 01:20:55,600
Speaker 1: most um embarrassing things, embarrassing thing as I've seen in

1647
01:20:55,640 --> 01:20:59,920
Speaker 1: my entire fucking life. Um. But yeah, so project is

1648
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:01,639
Speaker 1: are is that they're supposed to be like the first

1649
01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:04,920
Speaker 1: true like VR glasses. So they do the good thing,

1650
01:21:04,920 --> 01:21:07,120
Speaker 1: which is like here's the real technology these ray bands,

1651
01:21:07,120 --> 01:21:09,920
Speaker 1: and look, these are pretty neat. Obviously that doesn't come

1652
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:13,360
Speaker 1: close to what they're promising. Um, and this whole thing

1653
01:21:13,360 --> 01:21:16,280
Speaker 1: where they talk about what the glasses, which they say

1654
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:18,519
Speaker 1: they're making good progress on, are going to do, we

1655
01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:23,559
Speaker 1: don't ever see any fucking glasses. Yeah, yeah, And and

1656
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:27,960
Speaker 1: that's because they're not really close uh to to working yet.

1657
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:32,639
Speaker 1: That's the air glasses are gonna be the way to act.

1658
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:36,880
Speaker 1: Like if the goal is to integrate digital spaces into

1659
01:21:36,920 --> 01:21:38,680
Speaker 1: the physical space, I think I think it's a good

1660
01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:40,640
Speaker 1: goal because what that's gonna do, that's gonna make the

1661
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:43,479
Speaker 1: digital space less fake, right, it's injecting that into the

1662
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:45,800
Speaker 1: actual real world. So I think that will actually really

1663
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:48,479
Speaker 1: help with like disassociate of stuff is because it's actually

1664
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:50,240
Speaker 1: in it's actually in the real world as well. I

1665
01:21:50,240 --> 01:21:52,920
Speaker 1: think that's gonna be wonderful when that gets developed. And

1666
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:55,479
Speaker 1: I think the glasses are are definitely going to be

1667
01:21:55,479 --> 01:21:57,639
Speaker 1: a thing within the next ten to twenty years. There

1668
01:21:57,640 --> 01:22:00,800
Speaker 1: ways of like figure illuminating last on the side to

1669
01:22:00,840 --> 01:22:03,280
Speaker 1: make like like what it looks like an image. This

1670
01:22:03,360 --> 01:22:05,360
Speaker 1: is definitely gonna be a thing that's going to be possible.

1671
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 1: Like surveillance of privacy is like the big, big fears

1672
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:13,679
Speaker 1: for that because we're nowhere close to hacking the brain

1673
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:16,720
Speaker 1: enough to feel sensations. And like, the only thing I've

1674
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:18,880
Speaker 1: played a lot of VR, the only thing that you

1675
01:22:18,920 --> 01:22:22,160
Speaker 1: can feel in VR is fear. That's the only thing

1676
01:22:22,160 --> 01:22:25,280
Speaker 1: that VR is capable of replicating as as a feeling.

1677
01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:28,559
Speaker 1: It's like, you can feel terrified in VR. That's that's

1678
01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:30,880
Speaker 1: that's it. You can't ever feel like there's one thing

1679
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:35,600
Speaker 1: you can feel exhausted game. And I was doing like

1680
01:22:35,680 --> 01:22:37,880
Speaker 1: bow draws for like four hours, and I was like,

1681
01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:40,920
Speaker 1: we've we've developed the way to make you frightened and tired.

1682
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:43,760
Speaker 1: That is what r's best will. By the way, what

1683
01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:47,559
Speaker 1: Twitter does normally all true, all of like all of

1684
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:50,040
Speaker 1: like the resident Evil VR games. Yeah, they're gonna making

1685
01:22:50,080 --> 01:22:53,240
Speaker 1: you tired and terrified, and that's kind of it. So

1686
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:54,960
Speaker 1: we we have to close out. But I want to

1687
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:58,519
Speaker 1: do that by playing Mark Zuckerberg lamenting the Internet that

1688
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:00,880
Speaker 1: he played a major role in building, as a way

1689
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:02,880
Speaker 1: to talk about why we need a metaverse because it's

1690
01:23:03,320 --> 01:23:05,760
Speaker 1: kind of funny because we're allowed to build and use,

1691
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:09,519
Speaker 1: are more tightly controlled than ever, and high taxes on

1692
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:14,280
Speaker 1: creative new ideas are stifling. This is not the way

1693
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:18,400
Speaker 1: that we were met to use technology. The metaverse gives

1694
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:23,200
Speaker 1: us an opportunity to choose well, but it's going to

1695
01:23:23,280 --> 01:23:28,559
Speaker 1: take all of us creators, developers, companies of all sizes together.

1696
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:31,800
Speaker 1: We can finally put people at the center of our

1697
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:35,280
Speaker 1: technology and deliver an experience where we are present with

1698
01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:41,280
Speaker 1: each other. Yeah, what what a Google? Like? All of

1699
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:43,600
Speaker 1: that nonsense every when you're not you're one of the

1700
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:46,320
Speaker 1: people who has turned the Internet into an expensive walled garden.

1701
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:49,040
Speaker 1: It didn't used to be this way. Then Facebook swooped

1702
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:53,559
Speaker 1: in made themselves for free um like integral to all content,

1703
01:23:53,640 --> 01:23:56,200
Speaker 1: and then started charging those content creators and like sucking

1704
01:23:56,240 --> 01:23:57,880
Speaker 1: them around and lying to them, which led to the

1705
01:23:57,880 --> 01:23:59,960
Speaker 1: destruction of a huge number of websites and a triman.

1706
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:02,960
Speaker 1: This amount of digital culture, like your Wyatt, feels like

1707
01:24:03,040 --> 01:24:05,680
Speaker 1: a dead waled garden, and everything you've presented in this

1708
01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:08,360
Speaker 1: video makes the metaverse feel like a dead waled garden.

1709
01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:11,640
Speaker 1: But I want to play his last lines in the

1710
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,439
Speaker 1: in this video because this is him kind of summing

1711
01:24:14,520 --> 01:24:17,880
Speaker 1: up his vision for the future via the metaverse, and

1712
01:24:17,920 --> 01:24:20,519
Speaker 1: now it is time to take everything that we've learned

1713
01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:24,599
Speaker 1: and help build the next chapter. I am dedicating our

1714
01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:27,200
Speaker 1: energy to this more than any other company in the world,

1715
01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:29,639
Speaker 1: And if this is the future that you want to see,

1716
01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:32,639
Speaker 1: then I hope that you will join us, because the

1717
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:36,600
Speaker 1: future is going to be beyond anything we can imagine.

1718
01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:39,080
Speaker 1: I agree with that part mark. The future is going

1719
01:24:39,120 --> 01:24:41,599
Speaker 1: to be beyond what you can imagine. What a gool, Yeah,

1720
01:24:41,640 --> 01:24:44,719
Speaker 1: because you have no imagination. It's just it's just using

1721
01:24:45,080 --> 01:24:48,599
Speaker 1: trendy tech terms to trick investors into giving them billions

1722
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:51,240
Speaker 1: of dollars. That's like the right, That's that's all it is.

1723
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:55,440
Speaker 1: Because all of this, like this like haptic feedback replicating

1724
01:24:55,439 --> 01:24:58,200
Speaker 1: like human feelings and stuff, that we're nowhere close to that,

1725
01:24:58,240 --> 01:25:00,120
Speaker 1: and when we do, it's going to be dystopian. But

1726
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:02,760
Speaker 1: we're not close to it, and it's going to be dystopian,

1727
01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:06,439
Speaker 1: or it's going to be better in ways that like

1728
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:10,360
Speaker 1: we can't yet conceive of um and then eventually it

1729
01:25:10,400 --> 01:25:13,240
Speaker 1: will be destroyed for profit if it actually gets cool

1730
01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:17,160
Speaker 1: like the old Internet was. Yeah, it's yeah, it's it's yeah,

1731
01:25:17,200 --> 01:25:19,519
Speaker 1: but I think but both this and even a lot

1732
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:22,840
Speaker 1: like a lot of the epic stuff just seems ah,

1733
01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:27,240
Speaker 1: it's just the new way that tech companies, that's where

1734
01:25:27,280 --> 01:25:30,240
Speaker 1: they think the money vault is is by using these terms,

1735
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:32,160
Speaker 1: and they think using these terms is going to get

1736
01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:35,679
Speaker 1: them lots of extra investor money because the actual technology

1737
01:25:35,720 --> 01:25:37,280
Speaker 1: is nowhere really close to this and it's not what

1738
01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:40,320
Speaker 1: people wanted out of the Internet anyway, it absolutely is not.

1739
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:43,920
Speaker 1: But I don't know, I think this was important. I think, yeah,

1740
01:25:44,160 --> 01:25:48,479
Speaker 1: Facebook is important and has a major impact on the

1741
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:51,600
Speaker 1: way the Internet is continuing to evolve um usually in

1742
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:54,240
Speaker 1: negative ways. But this is how these people who are

1743
01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:57,200
Speaker 1: doing a lot of damage view the future. So you

1744
01:25:57,240 --> 01:25:59,560
Speaker 1: should know what they're looking at and what they anticipate.

1745
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:01,360
Speaker 1: But I think I think that there's a kind of

1746
01:26:01,360 --> 01:26:04,519
Speaker 1: optimistic note to this though, right was just like Okay,

1747
01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:07,439
Speaker 1: so we've we've reached the point where like even like

1748
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:12,320
Speaker 1: Boris Johnson is going like, oh god, climate change is coming, right,

1749
01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:18,080
Speaker 1: and this is the best they've got, right, they have

1750
01:26:18,600 --> 01:26:22,240
Speaker 1: they have nothing, They have nothing, And you know what,

1751
01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:25,840
Speaker 1: I think, like, what are the only ways we can win?

1752
01:26:25,920 --> 01:26:29,320
Speaker 1: Is if we're facing a uniquely incompetent ruling class. And

1753
01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:31,120
Speaker 1: if it if the rule, if the if the guy were,

1754
01:26:31,160 --> 01:26:32,719
Speaker 1: if a guy we have to deal with in order

1755
01:26:32,760 --> 01:26:36,599
Speaker 1: to like not drown every single whale and like have

1756
01:26:36,760 --> 01:26:38,639
Speaker 1: half of the world's city is consumed, but the ocean

1757
01:26:38,920 --> 01:26:45,719
Speaker 1: is Mark Zuckerberg, like, we got a shot some smarter

1758
01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:51,800
Speaker 1: people that aren't that obviously behind the scenes, right like yeah, yeah, um,

1759
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:54,280
Speaker 1: but I I don't think I think that's a nice

1760
01:26:54,280 --> 01:26:56,679
Speaker 1: note to end on, because it is, it is worth

1761
01:26:57,200 --> 01:26:59,639
Speaker 1: The nice thing about this is how clearly they don't

1762
01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:03,360
Speaker 1: under stand what the future is going to look like online. Um,

1763
01:27:03,400 --> 01:27:05,559
Speaker 1: they have ways in which they're trying to direct the future,

1764
01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:08,639
Speaker 1: and aspects of that will come true, like their VR

1765
01:27:09,200 --> 01:27:11,760
Speaker 1: will succeed in some form at some point and it

1766
01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:17,560
Speaker 1: will be potentially an unprecedented surveillance breakthrough has some unsettling implications,

1767
01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:20,600
Speaker 1: and bet of our stuff is getting developed a lot

1768
01:27:20,640 --> 01:27:22,840
Speaker 1: of other stuff. I think the move by Twitter to

1769
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:25,839
Speaker 1: create like this, like it's called like like Twitter spaces

1770
01:27:26,240 --> 01:27:28,679
Speaker 1: where it's like this, like you know, basically like voice

1771
01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:30,400
Speaker 1: chat room. Like a lot of people are moving towards

1772
01:27:30,439 --> 01:27:33,040
Speaker 1: this concept where we try to like inject more like

1773
01:27:33,240 --> 01:27:36,720
Speaker 1: in person interactivity into this virtual framework, right, which how

1774
01:27:36,760 --> 01:27:39,400
Speaker 1: this with like with like a clubhouse last year during

1775
01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:42,000
Speaker 1: during the pandemic, where people like watching like Netflix in

1776
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:44,639
Speaker 1: the quote same room, right, Like, we're seeing people try

1777
01:27:44,680 --> 01:27:47,519
Speaker 1: to do this with varying mix mixed success. But this

1778
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:49,960
Speaker 1: is the way tech is is inching. So it is

1779
01:27:49,960 --> 01:27:51,559
Speaker 1: a good idea to keep your eye on it because, yeah,

1780
01:27:51,560 --> 01:27:54,400
Speaker 1: it's a lot of implications for like clevacy and advertising

1781
01:27:54,479 --> 01:27:56,479
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. Will continue to cover

1782
01:27:56,640 --> 01:27:58,960
Speaker 1: aspects of this. Talk about the technology, talk about the

1783
01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:02,240
Speaker 1: surveillance implications, talk about the visions these people have. But

1784
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:04,880
Speaker 1: I think that this has been these episodes have been useful,

1785
01:28:04,920 --> 01:28:06,680
Speaker 1: and like here's what Mark thinks is coming. Here's what

1786
01:28:06,760 --> 01:28:10,200
Speaker 1: Facebook is pouring like ten billion dollars into it's dumbest shit,

1787
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:29,479
Speaker 1: have a nice day podcast. All right, Well I've done

1788
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:35,000
Speaker 1: my job for the day. Wow, you've even by our standards.

1789
01:28:35,080 --> 01:28:41,040
Speaker 1: That's a that's an intro, that's actually thank you. This

1790
01:28:41,240 --> 01:28:43,400
Speaker 1: is of course it could happen here a show about

1791
01:28:43,439 --> 01:28:46,639
Speaker 1: how things aren't going so great, kind of falling apart,

1792
01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:50,040
Speaker 1: crumbling a bit, but also maybe things could be better.

1793
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:52,799
Speaker 1: That would be nice. Let's try and do that. Today

1794
01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:55,280
Speaker 1: is one of the maybe things could be better episodes.

1795
01:28:55,360 --> 01:28:58,719
Speaker 1: And we are talking about the ongoing wave of strikes.

1796
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:03,040
Speaker 1: We had Strike Ober last month with John Dear strikes

1797
01:29:03,160 --> 01:29:06,800
Speaker 1: and and and strikes uh and like what it a

1798
01:29:06,880 --> 01:29:09,559
Speaker 1: couple of different food companies, a bunch of strikes um.

1799
01:29:09,840 --> 01:29:11,920
Speaker 1: And today we would like to get an update on

1800
01:29:12,439 --> 01:29:14,800
Speaker 1: all the motherfucker's who were out there striking for better

1801
01:29:14,880 --> 01:29:20,439
Speaker 1: conditions UM and and better treatment UM. And today, for

1802
01:29:20,640 --> 01:29:23,479
Speaker 1: that purpose, we've brought on the Great Kim Kelly. Kim.

1803
01:29:24,000 --> 01:29:26,760
Speaker 1: You are a journalist who focuses a hell of a

1804
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:29,880
Speaker 1: lot on labor. You've been up and down to some

1805
01:29:29,920 --> 01:29:31,640
Speaker 1: of the coal strikes that have been going on. You

1806
01:29:31,680 --> 01:29:34,479
Speaker 1: were there for the Amazon attempt to form the union

1807
01:29:35,040 --> 01:29:40,120
Speaker 1: in um O GS was that Arizona, um Alabama, Alabama?

1808
01:29:40,400 --> 01:29:42,479
Speaker 1: UM And you're writing a book on the history of

1809
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:45,160
Speaker 1: labor um in the United States. So I'd like to

1810
01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:48,519
Speaker 1: just kind of turn the floor over to you. There's

1811
01:29:48,520 --> 01:29:53,320
Speaker 1: a four. There's okay, there's a four. It is filthy,

1812
01:29:53,800 --> 01:29:55,760
Speaker 1: just as it AADs up. You know, we're doing our best,

1813
01:29:55,800 --> 01:29:59,280
Speaker 1: aren't we. Yeah? Weird, Yeah you are, we are not.

1814
01:30:00,840 --> 01:30:02,400
Speaker 1: I am I'm trying to keep up with all this

1815
01:30:02,560 --> 01:30:07,720
Speaker 1: labor action. It's exciting action, hot labor action, some hot

1816
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:11,680
Speaker 1: labor action stories. So, as you mentioned, we're just kind

1817
01:30:11,720 --> 01:30:15,320
Speaker 1: of coasting off of the peak of Striketober, which was

1818
01:30:15,400 --> 01:30:17,680
Speaker 1: such a fun thing to kind of see explode in

1819
01:30:17,720 --> 01:30:21,000
Speaker 1: the mainstream consciousness. Like usually labor stories, they are a

1820
01:30:21,040 --> 01:30:23,320
Speaker 1: big deal with the people that are involved in them

1821
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:25,320
Speaker 1: and people in the labor world who are watching and

1822
01:30:25,439 --> 01:30:27,920
Speaker 1: like rooting for them, but they don't necessarily end up

1823
01:30:27,960 --> 01:30:31,000
Speaker 1: on like you know, the mainstream like that. Theyn't end

1824
01:30:31,040 --> 01:30:32,800
Speaker 1: up on the TV. They don't end up with like

1825
01:30:33,439 --> 01:30:35,880
Speaker 1: fancy old guys talking about it on dateline or whatever.

1826
01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:39,640
Speaker 1: But that's something that happened, and I think there's been

1827
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:43,120
Speaker 1: a real shifting consciousness that is the company that And

1828
01:30:43,240 --> 01:30:45,360
Speaker 1: of course you know, it's like Strictober is fun. There's

1829
01:30:45,360 --> 01:30:47,439
Speaker 1: all these these big strikes happening at the same time.

1830
01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:49,840
Speaker 1: But we of course need to remember that that didn't

1831
01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:52,559
Speaker 1: happen in a vacuum. There's people on strike now who

1832
01:30:52,640 --> 01:30:55,400
Speaker 1: have been on strikes since before, since before it was cool, right,

1833
01:30:55,880 --> 01:30:59,160
Speaker 1: since much earlier. Like shout out to the st Vincent

1834
01:30:59,400 --> 01:31:03,280
Speaker 1: nurses in Massachusetts and to the coal miners in Brooke

1835
01:31:03,320 --> 01:31:05,719
Speaker 1: with Alabama Warrior Men who have both don on strike

1836
01:31:05,760 --> 01:31:09,200
Speaker 1: for over eight months and then kind of right so

1837
01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:11,720
Speaker 1: literally like they're like they're in the middle of their

1838
01:31:11,720 --> 01:31:14,080
Speaker 1: tour drives for their children because they've been on strike

1839
01:31:14,120 --> 01:31:16,439
Speaker 1: for so long, and they kind of got a little

1840
01:31:16,439 --> 01:31:19,320
Speaker 1: bit left out of the conversation around strike Tober and

1841
01:31:19,760 --> 01:31:21,240
Speaker 1: I think that just kind of shows that we need

1842
01:31:21,280 --> 01:31:23,679
Speaker 1: to be paying attention even when it's not as flashy

1843
01:31:23,800 --> 01:31:25,880
Speaker 1: or new or exciting. I mean, strikes were was exciting,

1844
01:31:25,960 --> 01:31:29,599
Speaker 1: but you know, there's a lot going on and one

1845
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:33,000
Speaker 1: of the things I think is interesting and important, especially

1846
01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:36,880
Speaker 1: as we head into strikes giving, which I guess we're doing. Yeah,

1847
01:31:37,200 --> 01:31:42,160
Speaker 1: strikes giving strike Smiths, strike in time, thank you, Ary.

1848
01:31:42,360 --> 01:31:50,920
Speaker 1: I guess to day forth strike you Lily, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1849
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:54,719
Speaker 1: it's it gets worse really until we get to Labor

1850
01:31:54,840 --> 01:31:58,360
Speaker 1: Day and by then Striker's Day. That one works pretty well.

1851
01:31:58,479 --> 01:32:00,920
Speaker 1: I'm also a fan of strike and Town's Day, um

1852
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:06,439
Speaker 1: strike and tized Day. That's cute. Rage baby, keep this going, Yeah,

1853
01:32:07,920 --> 01:32:13,960
Speaker 1: strike strike, there's a missed opportunity there. Although that that

1854
01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:16,600
Speaker 1: frightens me Garrison that the band ween might go on

1855
01:32:16,760 --> 01:32:20,360
Speaker 1: strike and I don't know society we do, we wouldn't

1856
01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:23,320
Speaker 1: have our we would we would be completely out of ween,

1857
01:32:23,520 --> 01:32:25,680
Speaker 1: our reserves if we aren't going to last long if

1858
01:32:25,720 --> 01:32:30,880
Speaker 1: they stop friends. Yeah, there's been a tragic shortage of

1859
01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:32,559
Speaker 1: ween for years now. I don't know that we can

1860
01:32:32,600 --> 01:32:35,360
Speaker 1: handle a stripe. You can. I mean, I didn't realize

1861
01:32:35,400 --> 01:32:37,439
Speaker 1: you were a nerd, Robert. This is kind of throw

1862
01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:43,840
Speaker 1: some things into question. Yeah, yeah, I mean, as a

1863
01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:46,920
Speaker 1: heavy metal dirtbag, I'm like contractually obligated to make say

1864
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:53,519
Speaker 1: things like that. But as I was pontificating a minute ago, right, So,

1865
01:32:53,880 --> 01:32:56,559
Speaker 1: as we go into strikes giving, there are still more

1866
01:32:56,640 --> 01:32:59,679
Speaker 1: big strikes on the horizon and potentially strikes in the horizon.

1867
01:33:00,160 --> 01:33:02,200
Speaker 1: But part of the story that I think is also

1868
01:33:02,320 --> 01:33:06,000
Speaker 1: very energizing and important is the organizing that's happening in

1869
01:33:06,080 --> 01:33:09,479
Speaker 1: the new unions that are hopefully gonna end up being formed,

1870
01:33:10,000 --> 01:33:12,479
Speaker 1: not necessarily as a result of this wave of attention,

1871
01:33:12,560 --> 01:33:14,720
Speaker 1: but they're kind of caught up in the tide. I mean,

1872
01:33:14,760 --> 01:33:17,640
Speaker 1: we look at the Starbucks workers in Buffalo who have

1873
01:33:17,920 --> 01:33:20,160
Speaker 1: scared the ship out of their employers to the point

1874
01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:23,240
Speaker 1: where they're flying executives in to follow them. Around the

1875
01:33:23,280 --> 01:33:25,600
Speaker 1: store and be like, please don't vote for reunion. We

1876
01:33:25,720 --> 01:33:28,000
Speaker 1: need all of our billions of dollars we can't share.

1877
01:33:28,760 --> 01:33:31,840
Speaker 1: Or you know, even workers at wire Cutter who are

1878
01:33:31,960 --> 01:33:35,040
Speaker 1: threatening to strike on Black Friday and their whole thing

1879
01:33:35,200 --> 01:33:38,960
Speaker 1: is telling people what's stuff to buy, you know, and

1880
01:33:39,240 --> 01:33:41,559
Speaker 1: McDonald's workers, and I think ten different these are ten

1881
01:33:41,600 --> 01:33:44,680
Speaker 1: different cities or ten different states, ten different locations just

1882
01:33:44,920 --> 01:33:47,280
Speaker 1: went out on like a one day strike over sexual

1883
01:33:47,360 --> 01:33:50,800
Speaker 1: harassment in the workplace. Kroger workers are taking a strike

1884
01:33:50,840 --> 01:33:55,479
Speaker 1: authorization vote in Texas. We have multiple Amazon organizing attempts

1885
01:33:55,520 --> 01:33:58,280
Speaker 1: happening in Staten Island, and a rerun of the election

1886
01:33:58,400 --> 01:34:01,040
Speaker 1: coming up in Best for Alabama, and there's just so

1887
01:34:01,200 --> 01:34:05,280
Speaker 1: much happening that, you know, I hope that the novelty

1888
01:34:05,400 --> 01:34:07,439
Speaker 1: idea of the strikes wild word strikes giving. I hope

1889
01:34:07,479 --> 01:34:09,080
Speaker 1: like that was fun. But I hope now that people

1890
01:34:09,120 --> 01:34:12,120
Speaker 1: are paying attention, that they stay interested and realize that,

1891
01:34:12,240 --> 01:34:15,280
Speaker 1: you know, labor stories. Maybe it's not necessarily always like

1892
01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:17,840
Speaker 1: a big strike or like a cool picket line to

1893
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:21,439
Speaker 1: look at, but there's a lot going on. Like every

1894
01:34:21,520 --> 01:34:23,960
Speaker 1: story is a work story, every story is a labor story,

1895
01:34:24,479 --> 01:34:26,800
Speaker 1: and people seem like they're finally catching on the fact

1896
01:34:26,880 --> 01:34:29,519
Speaker 1: that you know, we're all workers and wow, cool things

1897
01:34:29,600 --> 01:34:33,840
Speaker 1: happen when we come together. Yeah. I I hope that too,

1898
01:34:34,040 --> 01:34:36,760
Speaker 1: and I hope that, um, you know the word on

1899
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:39,720
Speaker 1: everybody's lips, who's I don't know. Coming at this from

1900
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:42,400
Speaker 1: kind of a little bit of a more uh, either

1901
01:34:42,560 --> 01:34:45,080
Speaker 1: radical or desperate point of view, depending on how you

1902
01:34:45,120 --> 01:34:48,040
Speaker 1: want to frame it. Is like general strike, general strike,

1903
01:34:48,120 --> 01:34:51,240
Speaker 1: and you know, there's there's been some there's been people

1904
01:34:51,280 --> 01:34:53,360
Speaker 1: online who keep saying like, Okay, well we're all just

1905
01:34:53,400 --> 01:34:56,760
Speaker 1: gonna go on on Black Friday, everybody general strike And

1906
01:34:56,800 --> 01:34:58,439
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, well you don't. You don't set that

1907
01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:01,080
Speaker 1: up on Twitter. Like the unions that are striking now

1908
01:35:01,280 --> 01:35:03,519
Speaker 1: have strike funds and put a lot of thought into

1909
01:35:03,600 --> 01:35:06,560
Speaker 1: it and have like had to take there's things you

1910
01:35:06,680 --> 01:35:09,320
Speaker 1: have to do in order to not irresponsibly like just

1911
01:35:09,479 --> 01:35:12,880
Speaker 1: screw over a bunch of working people. Um. But it

1912
01:35:13,080 --> 01:35:16,840
Speaker 1: is like, I'm a believer in the potential of something

1913
01:35:16,920 --> 01:35:22,479
Speaker 1: like a general strike to to force significant concessions. I mean,

1914
01:35:22,640 --> 01:35:26,920
Speaker 1: if we did it right, Yeah, I think if. I

1915
01:35:27,000 --> 01:35:30,240
Speaker 1: mean it's a huge if because it's never really effectively

1916
01:35:30,320 --> 01:35:32,720
Speaker 1: been like there's been pieces of it done, like we saw.

1917
01:35:32,840 --> 01:35:35,320
Speaker 1: I think the closest we've gotten in like my lifetime

1918
01:35:35,400 --> 01:35:38,400
Speaker 1: has been when the the airline workers threatened to go

1919
01:35:38,640 --> 01:35:41,120
Speaker 1: on strike over the over the budget thing, and you

1920
01:35:41,240 --> 01:35:43,479
Speaker 1: just saw the federal government go, oh fuck, nope, you

1921
01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:49,240
Speaker 1: know what, we can actually pass this thing. I mean,

1922
01:35:49,320 --> 01:35:51,560
Speaker 1: that's the thing like that threat that I think that

1923
01:35:51,720 --> 01:35:54,960
Speaker 1: was Sara Nelson said that even like hinted towards that

1924
01:35:55,000 --> 01:35:57,240
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen when the government shutdown. That's sort of

1925
01:35:57,400 --> 01:35:59,120
Speaker 1: that was a tipping point. I think that's the first

1926
01:35:59,160 --> 01:36:02,560
Speaker 1: time people, well really was probab the first time in

1927
01:36:02,600 --> 01:36:05,120
Speaker 1: many people's lifetimes that an actual labor leader with that

1928
01:36:05,200 --> 01:36:08,800
Speaker 1: platform had even mentioned those words. Because general like general

1929
01:36:08,840 --> 01:36:11,760
Speaker 1: strikes historically kind of are more situated in that late

1930
01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:15,200
Speaker 1: nineteenth century, early twentieth century like labor swinging its stick

1931
01:36:15,240 --> 01:36:18,720
Speaker 1: around era, and we've been kneecapped so much that that

1932
01:36:19,080 --> 01:36:21,679
Speaker 1: doesn't feel as as possible. But I mean the fact

1933
01:36:21,760 --> 01:36:24,200
Speaker 1: that she said, and she was part of the airline industry,

1934
01:36:24,600 --> 01:36:27,839
Speaker 1: if we're ever going to actually you know, bring capital

1935
01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:31,080
Speaker 1: to its knees, we're gonna need the transportation workers. We're

1936
01:36:31,080 --> 01:36:33,120
Speaker 1: gonna need the dock workers. We're gonna need to like

1937
01:36:33,720 --> 01:36:36,920
Speaker 1: actually analyze who is moving things around the country, who's

1938
01:36:36,960 --> 01:36:39,920
Speaker 1: making sure things work, and how can we get them

1939
01:36:40,360 --> 01:36:42,679
Speaker 1: to put down to down their tools and be like, Okay,

1940
01:36:43,080 --> 01:36:44,960
Speaker 1: we're gonna do something about this. You know, the whole

1941
01:36:45,000 --> 01:36:48,439
Speaker 1: general strike idea, I mean, I mean and arguably, like

1942
01:36:48,520 --> 01:36:51,560
Speaker 1: one of the first ones was you know, Black reconstruction.

1943
01:36:52,000 --> 01:36:56,559
Speaker 1: They the book, there's uh this argument that the first

1944
01:36:56,600 --> 01:37:01,439
Speaker 1: general strike was enslaved enslaved people leaving the plantations and

1945
01:37:01,960 --> 01:37:05,560
Speaker 1: withdrawing their labor from that situation, like that was a

1946
01:37:05,680 --> 01:37:08,320
Speaker 1: form of striking. And I think the general strike is

1947
01:37:08,400 --> 01:37:11,320
Speaker 1: kind of a morphous idea, especially online as more people

1948
01:37:11,400 --> 01:37:13,240
Speaker 1: learn about labor and learn about it. But there's also

1949
01:37:13,280 --> 01:37:17,040
Speaker 1: like kind of a specific thing like yeah, you can't

1950
01:37:17,080 --> 01:37:18,840
Speaker 1: just declare like Okay, we're all not going to go

1951
01:37:18,960 --> 01:37:23,080
Speaker 1: to work tomorrow, like cool, But there's so much planning

1952
01:37:23,120 --> 01:37:24,920
Speaker 1: that goes into it to make sure that people are

1953
01:37:25,560 --> 01:37:27,679
Speaker 1: able to do that and sustain that. And the people

1954
01:37:27,720 --> 01:37:30,800
Speaker 1: that are traditionally you know, already left out or the

1955
01:37:30,840 --> 01:37:34,160
Speaker 1: most vulnerable and marginalize like that their needs are prioritized

1956
01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:38,240
Speaker 1: because the people that can afford to declare general strike

1957
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:40,439
Speaker 1: and not show up for a week, Like that's all

1958
01:37:40,479 --> 01:37:42,840
Speaker 1: well and good for them, but what about everyone else

1959
01:37:42,880 --> 01:37:46,160
Speaker 1: who can barely afford to go to work at all. Yeah,

1960
01:37:46,439 --> 01:37:50,280
Speaker 1: I've had these arguments with people online, and it's often like, well,

1961
01:37:50,320 --> 01:37:52,160
Speaker 1: you're saying we shouldn't be like, if we just do it,

1962
01:37:52,280 --> 01:37:54,439
Speaker 1: people will figure it out, like the infrastructure will be

1963
01:37:54,479 --> 01:37:57,840
Speaker 1: build after the fact. And I'm like, that's I'm glad

1964
01:37:57,880 --> 01:37:59,880
Speaker 1: that you're in a situation where you feel like you

1965
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:02,240
Speaker 1: could you could handle that kind of uncertainty. But like

1966
01:38:02,840 --> 01:38:06,080
Speaker 1: a single mother of four who relies on her job

1967
01:38:06,240 --> 01:38:08,560
Speaker 1: to keep them fed and alive, isn't going to be

1968
01:38:08,680 --> 01:38:11,120
Speaker 1: like someone will figure out how to feed my kids, Like, well,

1969
01:38:12,960 --> 01:38:15,560
Speaker 1: that's not how people work, you know. Yeah, this is

1970
01:38:15,600 --> 01:38:18,320
Speaker 1: where having like a robust commitment to mutual aid and

1971
01:38:18,640 --> 01:38:22,000
Speaker 1: strike funds and like an actual fabric, like having the

1972
01:38:22,040 --> 01:38:24,559
Speaker 1: fabric of community where you can depend on your neighbors

1973
01:38:24,600 --> 01:38:28,080
Speaker 1: instead of never talking to them, Like a general strike

1974
01:38:28,200 --> 01:38:32,000
Speaker 1: would have a huge impact, but on who, Like who

1975
01:38:32,040 --> 01:38:34,679
Speaker 1: would it hurt more if you didn't plan it properly,

1976
01:38:34,760 --> 01:38:38,040
Speaker 1: if you didn't have if you didn't have an actual

1977
01:38:38,439 --> 01:38:41,479
Speaker 1: grassroots network of people ready to help if you didn't

1978
01:38:41,520 --> 01:38:43,559
Speaker 1: need to understanding that not everyone can just go run

1979
01:38:43,600 --> 01:38:46,320
Speaker 1: off in the streets. Some people like have mobility issues,

1980
01:38:46,439 --> 01:38:49,080
Speaker 1: some people have children, some people are older or sicker. Like,

1981
01:38:49,200 --> 01:38:52,479
Speaker 1: there's so much that goes into it. Yeah, it's like

1982
01:38:52,600 --> 01:38:54,479
Speaker 1: your car is fucked up and you know you need

1983
01:38:54,520 --> 01:38:56,519
Speaker 1: to take it in to get some stuff fixed, or

1984
01:38:56,560 --> 01:38:59,080
Speaker 1: it's eventually going to break down entirely. But that doesn't

1985
01:38:59,080 --> 01:39:01,040
Speaker 1: mean the right solution to just get in there and

1986
01:39:01,320 --> 01:39:03,880
Speaker 1: start hitting ship with a hammer like you need there

1987
01:39:03,920 --> 01:39:07,120
Speaker 1: needs to be like some systemic way you approach it right,

1988
01:39:07,200 --> 01:39:10,439
Speaker 1: Like there's a proper way to fix an engine, right,

1989
01:39:10,600 --> 01:39:13,080
Speaker 1: and we can do that, Like we can start building

1990
01:39:13,120 --> 01:39:15,439
Speaker 1: those networks. We can start you can organize your workplace

1991
01:39:15,479 --> 01:39:18,599
Speaker 1: and plug into the into like the organized labor framework,

1992
01:39:18,600 --> 01:39:21,600
Speaker 1: which obviously has many flaws, not as radical as I

1993
01:39:21,640 --> 01:39:23,720
Speaker 1: would and many other people like it to be, but

1994
01:39:23,840 --> 01:39:27,760
Speaker 1: they know how to do this ship. Like, there's a

1995
01:39:27,840 --> 01:39:30,559
Speaker 1: lot of different pieces that can be pulled together, different

1996
01:39:30,640 --> 01:39:33,680
Speaker 1: organizations and populations that need to work together if we're

1997
01:39:33,720 --> 01:39:37,559
Speaker 1: actually going to accomplish something like this, And I don't

1998
01:39:37,560 --> 01:39:39,080
Speaker 1: know if people are ready to put in all that

1999
01:39:39,200 --> 01:39:44,120
Speaker 1: work because it's more fun to tweet. Yeah, but I'm wondering,

2000
01:39:44,880 --> 01:39:47,760
Speaker 1: as they say in Alabama, bless their hearts. You're you're

2001
01:39:47,800 --> 01:39:49,960
Speaker 1: spending a tremendous m emman, as you just noted, You're

2002
01:39:49,960 --> 01:39:51,920
Speaker 1: spending a tremendous amount of time on the ground with

2003
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:54,439
Speaker 1: a lot of these people talking with them. Are you

2004
01:39:54,920 --> 01:39:59,240
Speaker 1: are you seeing kind of how how are you hearing

2005
01:39:59,320 --> 01:40:01,479
Speaker 1: them talk about the other strike efforts you know, in

2006
01:40:01,520 --> 01:40:03,439
Speaker 1: other industries that are going on right now, because it

2007
01:40:03,520 --> 01:40:05,400
Speaker 1: has been more in the news than it's been at

2008
01:40:05,400 --> 01:40:07,280
Speaker 1: any point I can recall on the recent past, And

2009
01:40:07,320 --> 01:40:09,960
Speaker 1: I'm wondering how in places like Bessemer, you know, in

2010
01:40:10,040 --> 01:40:12,680
Speaker 1: places like um you know that coal miners strike you've

2011
01:40:12,680 --> 01:40:15,240
Speaker 1: been at, like, how are they being are to what

2012
01:40:15,360 --> 01:40:17,800
Speaker 1: extent are they talking about other strike efforts? Like is

2013
01:40:17,840 --> 01:40:19,640
Speaker 1: that does that seem to be something that there's a

2014
01:40:19,680 --> 01:40:22,000
Speaker 1: lot of kind of consciousness and discussion about or is

2015
01:40:22,040 --> 01:40:24,200
Speaker 1: it just kind of in the background. I mean, it

2016
01:40:24,280 --> 01:40:26,439
Speaker 1: really depends. I like you said, I've spent I spent

2017
01:40:26,520 --> 01:40:28,320
Speaker 1: most of my time with the coal miners over the

2018
01:40:28,360 --> 01:40:30,080
Speaker 1: past years. I've been writing a book and that's been

2019
01:40:30,160 --> 01:40:32,479
Speaker 1: my one, my one fun thing. But I've been I mean,

2020
01:40:32,520 --> 01:40:34,280
Speaker 1: I talked to them every single day. And I've been

2021
01:40:34,320 --> 01:40:36,400
Speaker 1: to Alabama lots of times, and I you know, I'm

2022
01:40:36,400 --> 01:40:38,439
Speaker 1: in a group chaut with the wives, Like I know,

2023
01:40:38,840 --> 01:40:41,519
Speaker 1: I have a decent grasp what's going on. And honestly,

2024
01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:44,040
Speaker 1: the thing about is that some there, there are some

2025
01:40:44,160 --> 01:40:46,799
Speaker 1: folks who are very engaged and who have made twitters

2026
01:40:46,880 --> 01:40:48,439
Speaker 1: and they have their Facebook groups and they do pay

2027
01:40:48,439 --> 01:40:50,640
Speaker 1: attention is happening, and I do think they feel that

2028
01:40:50,800 --> 01:40:54,320
Speaker 1: kind of excitement and that wide spread says its solidarity.

2029
01:40:55,000 --> 01:40:58,040
Speaker 1: But one thing there that's important to remember, especially for

2030
01:40:58,120 --> 01:41:01,200
Speaker 1: workers who are already disadvantaged or the dealing with low

2031
01:41:01,280 --> 01:41:04,400
Speaker 1: wage labor, is like it's really hard to go on strike,

2032
01:41:05,120 --> 01:41:07,160
Speaker 1: Like there's a lot of ship they have to figure out,

2033
01:41:07,280 --> 01:41:09,880
Speaker 1: Like there's kids, there's health issues, there's how am I

2034
01:41:09,960 --> 01:41:12,320
Speaker 1: going to pay my rent? Like like funds are great,

2035
01:41:12,400 --> 01:41:15,160
Speaker 1: but they don't cover everything. Like I think that's one

2036
01:41:15,200 --> 01:41:17,879
Speaker 1: of the realities that maybe it gets sort of glossed

2037
01:41:17,960 --> 01:41:20,960
Speaker 1: over because we're also online and we like to you

2038
01:41:21,080 --> 01:41:23,240
Speaker 1: and me, it feels like, oh, everyone's fucking stoked about

2039
01:41:23,280 --> 01:41:26,720
Speaker 1: these strikes. But for someone in rural Alabama who is

2040
01:41:26,760 --> 01:41:29,040
Speaker 1: just hoping this strike is over soon, so they can

2041
01:41:29,120 --> 01:41:32,240
Speaker 1: go back to work and have some financial stability. They're

2042
01:41:32,280 --> 01:41:35,280
Speaker 1: not necessarily reading your tweets or like signing up for

2043
01:41:35,360 --> 01:41:39,759
Speaker 1: webinars or even paying attention to like cool other strike efforts.

2044
01:41:40,240 --> 01:41:42,400
Speaker 1: I'm sure some some folks are aware and they find

2045
01:41:42,520 --> 01:41:45,200
Speaker 1: have that time to plug in, but most people are

2046
01:41:45,200 --> 01:41:47,640
Speaker 1: just trying to get by. And these are folks who

2047
01:41:47,680 --> 01:41:49,439
Speaker 1: are spend like eight hours a day on the picket

2048
01:41:49,479 --> 01:41:51,760
Speaker 1: lines and there's no cell phone service out where their

2049
01:41:51,800 --> 01:41:54,920
Speaker 1: picket lines are, Like, there's only so much that a

2050
01:41:55,120 --> 01:41:58,000
Speaker 1: normal regular worker on the picket line can do to

2051
01:41:58,120 --> 01:42:02,840
Speaker 1: keep up. Yeah, and um, you came into this, I

2052
01:42:02,840 --> 01:42:04,840
Speaker 1: think unlike a lot of the people who are who

2053
01:42:04,880 --> 01:42:08,599
Speaker 1: are actually striking, you came into this with a lifelong

2054
01:42:08,680 --> 01:42:11,840
Speaker 1: history of the like of interest in kind of uh

2055
01:42:12,479 --> 01:42:15,599
Speaker 1: labor justice movements and whatnot, which I don't think most

2056
01:42:15,640 --> 01:42:17,880
Speaker 1: people who are in unions necessarily spend a ton of

2057
01:42:17,960 --> 01:42:21,599
Speaker 1: time studying the last hundred years of labor relations. Um,

2058
01:42:21,840 --> 01:42:24,160
Speaker 1: what has surprised you? Like? What what have what? What

2059
01:42:24,400 --> 01:42:27,400
Speaker 1: is like been a new realization that you've gotten since

2060
01:42:27,439 --> 01:42:29,519
Speaker 1: you started covering the stuff on the ground in this

2061
01:42:29,640 --> 01:42:33,600
Speaker 1: most recent period. So the thing that's really sticks with me,

2062
01:42:33,680 --> 01:42:35,840
Speaker 1: and I'm going past my minors again because that's you know,

2063
01:42:36,040 --> 01:42:39,160
Speaker 1: my where where the most familiarity. But something that I

2064
01:42:39,280 --> 01:42:41,760
Speaker 1: think has so much potential, and I'm not going to

2065
01:42:42,080 --> 01:42:44,640
Speaker 1: entirely sure how to articulate what that potential is. But

2066
01:42:45,120 --> 01:42:48,000
Speaker 1: so something I have seen is when this strike began,

2067
01:42:48,640 --> 01:42:51,479
Speaker 1: most not all, but the majority of the folks involved

2068
01:42:51,479 --> 01:42:55,680
Speaker 1: in this particular strike, or conservative Christian people who were

2069
01:42:55,920 --> 01:42:57,320
Speaker 1: a lot of voted for Trump, but a lot of

2070
01:42:57,360 --> 01:42:59,800
Speaker 1: them were like just in that world, maybe not like

2071
01:43:00,200 --> 01:43:03,000
Speaker 1: you know, wild mega people, but that's just what was

2072
01:43:03,120 --> 01:43:06,000
Speaker 1: the norm where they are in their community, and they

2073
01:43:06,080 --> 01:43:08,559
Speaker 1: will think about that much. But there are some people

2074
01:43:08,720 --> 01:43:11,160
Speaker 1: that I've seen, especially those were involved in the mutual

2075
01:43:11,200 --> 01:43:13,840
Speaker 1: aid efforts or have been who have seen Birmingham DSA

2076
01:43:14,000 --> 01:43:16,920
Speaker 1: come out, who have kind of taken this kind of

2077
01:43:17,120 --> 01:43:19,560
Speaker 1: like wider review of what's happening, how they fit in.

2078
01:43:20,080 --> 01:43:23,920
Speaker 1: I've seen their politics and their perspective shift, Like there

2079
01:43:23,960 --> 01:43:26,200
Speaker 1: are some people who are like straight up socialists now

2080
01:43:26,400 --> 01:43:29,880
Speaker 1: that seven months ago would have probably spit in your

2081
01:43:29,920 --> 01:43:32,120
Speaker 1: face or at least given you a hell of a

2082
01:43:32,240 --> 01:43:35,160
Speaker 1: look if you wouldn't even suggested such a thing. And

2083
01:43:35,240 --> 01:43:36,800
Speaker 1: this is a small sample size, and this is a

2084
01:43:36,880 --> 01:43:39,920
Speaker 1: unique situation, but I think it really speaks to the

2085
01:43:40,000 --> 01:43:45,360
Speaker 1: potential there to like reach people who are very ideologically

2086
01:43:45,479 --> 01:43:48,800
Speaker 1: politically different from what we maybe think of as labor,

2087
01:43:48,920 --> 01:43:52,559
Speaker 1: people as progressive, radical whatever people on like our team, right,

2088
01:43:53,240 --> 01:43:55,439
Speaker 1: But the power of the strike and the power of

2089
01:43:55,600 --> 01:43:58,439
Speaker 1: labor is that there is so much there. There's kind

2090
01:43:58,479 --> 01:44:02,040
Speaker 1: of an inherent calm and ground because so many people,

2091
01:44:02,080 --> 01:44:04,800
Speaker 1: most people, a lot of people, most people have a job,

2092
01:44:05,240 --> 01:44:07,559
Speaker 1: a lot of people hate their boss. You can kind

2093
01:44:07,600 --> 01:44:11,000
Speaker 1: of build from that very very low baseline and find

2094
01:44:11,120 --> 01:44:14,479
Speaker 1: more common ground and kind of you can you can

2095
01:44:14,520 --> 01:44:16,880
Speaker 1: work towards a better understanding. Like maybe you're not going

2096
01:44:16,920 --> 01:44:20,520
Speaker 1: to be best friends, but you can potentially shift someone's

2097
01:44:20,800 --> 01:44:24,240
Speaker 1: harmful worldview by exposing them to new ideas once they

2098
01:44:24,320 --> 01:44:26,160
Speaker 1: trust that you're not just there to tell them they're

2099
01:44:26,200 --> 01:44:30,080
Speaker 1: wrong and stupid and bad. Were like, look, we were

2100
01:44:30,160 --> 01:44:32,080
Speaker 1: coming at this like I'm going to talk to you

2101
01:44:32,200 --> 01:44:34,799
Speaker 1: like a person. I understand we see the world differently,

2102
01:44:34,920 --> 01:44:36,760
Speaker 1: but like you know, I'm here to support you. I'm

2103
01:44:36,800 --> 01:44:38,680
Speaker 1: here listening to you. Maybe you could listen to what

2104
01:44:38,760 --> 01:44:41,040
Speaker 1: I have to say too, Maybe it might change how

2105
01:44:41,120 --> 01:44:46,920
Speaker 1: you see things. And sometimes it works. Yeah. Yeah, um

2106
01:44:47,800 --> 01:44:53,599
Speaker 1: you know what else works kim blowing shut up? Well

2107
01:44:53,800 --> 01:45:00,880
Speaker 1: okay allegedly um minecraft. Yeah. I was gonna say cap ads,

2108
01:45:01,479 --> 01:45:07,640
Speaker 1: cap adalisms, ads and services. Um, but I like your

2109
01:45:07,680 --> 01:45:10,000
Speaker 1: answer better. So let's just let's just let's just roll

2110
01:45:10,080 --> 01:45:14,840
Speaker 1: out with that material support, right. Like another concrete example there,

2111
01:45:14,920 --> 01:45:18,680
Speaker 1: the Birmingham DSA has been very active in fundraising and

2112
01:45:18,760 --> 01:45:22,439
Speaker 1: showing up and just providing support for the miners and

2113
01:45:22,560 --> 01:45:25,519
Speaker 1: and the people on strike. And this is not necessarily

2114
01:45:25,560 --> 01:45:28,800
Speaker 1: a population of people that like the idea of socialism,

2115
01:45:28,880 --> 01:45:31,880
Speaker 1: whatever idea of it is that they hold, because Fox

2116
01:45:32,000 --> 01:45:35,760
Speaker 1: News and russal In Barre are big cultural stand bias there,

2117
01:45:35,960 --> 01:45:38,640
Speaker 1: like whatever they think socialism is. And then have a

2118
01:45:38,680 --> 01:45:41,640
Speaker 1: bunch of socialists show up and just practice solidarity and

2119
01:45:41,720 --> 01:45:45,000
Speaker 1: mutual aiding practice socialism, and they're like, oh, these guys

2120
01:45:45,040 --> 01:45:47,720
Speaker 1: are great, thank you for coming out and things like that,

2121
01:45:47,960 --> 01:45:51,080
Speaker 1: where it's like, I feel like so much of radical

2122
01:45:51,160 --> 01:45:55,040
Speaker 1: politics in various, you know, various tendencies. There's just like

2123
01:45:55,120 --> 01:45:58,560
Speaker 1: a branding problem and there's a propaganda problem on the

2124
01:45:58,680 --> 01:46:00,640
Speaker 1: right wing, and the mainstre media is tell anybody what

2125
01:46:00,720 --> 01:46:05,120
Speaker 1: anything means, Like, yeah, it's a broader conversation, right, But

2126
01:46:06,160 --> 01:46:08,519
Speaker 1: I felt for a while like one of the things

2127
01:46:08,640 --> 01:46:11,720
Speaker 1: that leftist organizers need to get better at doing is

2128
01:46:12,160 --> 01:46:17,320
Speaker 1: being willing to like drop names when they're not productive. Like, Okay,

2129
01:46:17,400 --> 01:46:20,120
Speaker 1: maybe these people because of the media environment, they've grown

2130
01:46:20,200 --> 01:46:22,520
Speaker 1: up and are never gonna want to consider themselves socialists.

2131
01:46:22,960 --> 01:46:26,519
Speaker 1: But if they are willing to organize together and support

2132
01:46:26,560 --> 01:46:29,639
Speaker 1: the efforts of other working people to organize together against

2133
01:46:30,720 --> 01:46:34,000
Speaker 1: the capital holding class, like then okay, Like what is it?

2134
01:46:34,160 --> 01:46:36,719
Speaker 1: Why do you need them to like start quoting Karl

2135
01:46:36,800 --> 01:46:39,360
Speaker 1: Marx or is it just cool that you've you've got

2136
01:46:39,439 --> 01:46:42,599
Speaker 1: them doing what they like? Yeah? I I that makes

2137
01:46:42,600 --> 01:46:44,920
Speaker 1: a lot of sense to me that, like, yes, some

2138
01:46:45,120 --> 01:46:46,560
Speaker 1: that you can get a lot of these people on

2139
01:46:46,680 --> 01:46:50,680
Speaker 1: board with again, pretty radical things if you're if you're

2140
01:46:50,720 --> 01:46:53,280
Speaker 1: kind of approaching it from within their world, from within,

2141
01:46:53,439 --> 01:46:56,200
Speaker 1: like I'm not trying to talk to you about burning

2142
01:46:56,240 --> 01:46:57,880
Speaker 1: down the system. I'm trying to talk to you about

2143
01:46:57,880 --> 01:46:59,360
Speaker 1: how you get what you need. And it just so

2144
01:46:59,479 --> 01:47:02,240
Speaker 1: happens that how you get what you need um is

2145
01:47:02,680 --> 01:47:05,840
Speaker 1: taking the system on in a very direct way. I Mean,

2146
01:47:05,960 --> 01:47:08,360
Speaker 1: so many ideas that are painted as radical just like

2147
01:47:08,760 --> 01:47:13,680
Speaker 1: aren't like that's normal people caring for him, like it

2148
01:47:13,880 --> 01:47:16,559
Speaker 1: is like community care and common sense. It's just been

2149
01:47:16,600 --> 01:47:22,240
Speaker 1: politicized to this insane extent. And even it's like I'm

2150
01:47:22,240 --> 01:47:23,280
Speaker 1: just like even like a lot a lot of the

2151
01:47:23,320 --> 01:47:25,160
Speaker 1: tenants of mutual aid you can even see pop up

2152
01:47:25,160 --> 01:47:28,360
Speaker 1: in a lot of like church communities as well, at

2153
01:47:28,439 --> 01:47:30,559
Speaker 1: least like at least like smaller, you know, closer knit

2154
01:47:30,640 --> 01:47:32,720
Speaker 1: like communities that are actually based around helping each other.

2155
01:47:32,760 --> 01:47:34,960
Speaker 1: At least I was I've observed that and a lot

2156
01:47:35,040 --> 01:47:38,160
Speaker 1: of my time traveling across the States. Yeah, absolutely, that's

2157
01:47:38,160 --> 01:47:40,320
Speaker 1: a huge part of it. Like the church is the

2158
01:47:40,400 --> 01:47:43,280
Speaker 1: only mutual aid option in so many like smaller and

2159
01:47:43,320 --> 01:47:45,880
Speaker 1: more icely rural communities or just communities where the church

2160
01:47:45,960 --> 01:47:49,880
Speaker 1: is a big deal. Like there's always ways to chip

2161
01:47:49,920 --> 01:47:53,960
Speaker 1: away these institutions and eventually hopefully burned them down right

2162
01:47:54,080 --> 01:47:56,679
Speaker 1: without alienating people and making them feel like you're coming

2163
01:47:56,680 --> 01:47:59,120
Speaker 1: in and telling them everything you believe is wrong and

2164
01:47:59,200 --> 01:48:01,280
Speaker 1: actually and I'm making a mistakes. And of these folks,

2165
01:48:01,400 --> 01:48:04,120
Speaker 1: I'm sure they believe things that are absolute garbage. And

2166
01:48:04,160 --> 01:48:08,000
Speaker 1: I would never do everybody, you know, like there's you know,

2167
01:48:08,840 --> 01:48:12,479
Speaker 1: but there's there's just covering this strike in particular has

2168
01:48:12,520 --> 01:48:15,320
Speaker 1: really just taught me a lot about the gray areas

2169
01:48:15,400 --> 01:48:18,160
Speaker 1: in between, not in like I wish you watched a

2170
01:48:18,200 --> 01:48:20,040
Speaker 1: liberal way, but just in a way of like, how

2171
01:48:20,080 --> 01:48:22,320
Speaker 1: do you relate to normal fucking people who see the

2172
01:48:22,360 --> 01:48:25,560
Speaker 1: world differently but are in ultimately the same struggle as you? Like,

2173
01:48:26,400 --> 01:48:30,439
Speaker 1: maybe I could, I mean going down there on the

2174
01:48:30,520 --> 01:48:32,840
Speaker 1: only time I've been around that many Trump supporters was

2175
01:48:32,920 --> 01:48:35,040
Speaker 1: like at protests where I was yelling at them, or

2176
01:48:35,120 --> 01:48:38,960
Speaker 1: like at my family dinners. So I wasn't you know,

2177
01:48:40,400 --> 01:48:42,880
Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting to make friends, but then I did,

2178
01:48:43,760 --> 01:48:46,640
Speaker 1: and I think hopefully we've we've shifted each other's perspectives

2179
01:48:46,640 --> 01:48:49,519
Speaker 1: a little bit in a way that's beneficial. I don't know,

2180
01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:54,000
Speaker 1: it's been, It's been interesting. Yes, talking to people really

2181
01:48:54,520 --> 01:48:57,680
Speaker 1: is a lot different than tweeting at them. Yeah, as

2182
01:48:57,760 --> 01:49:01,599
Speaker 1: a rule, don't tweet would be my recommendation to people.

2183
01:49:02,040 --> 01:49:06,880
Speaker 1: Never never, Yeah, talk to your neighbors and be nice

2184
01:49:06,920 --> 01:49:08,960
Speaker 1: to people when you buy coffee or food from them,

2185
01:49:09,000 --> 01:49:13,040
Speaker 1: and amaze what happens. And yeah, tell your neighbors, Hey,

2186
01:49:13,080 --> 01:49:14,960
Speaker 1: I'm taking my phone down to the river to throw

2187
01:49:15,000 --> 01:49:17,040
Speaker 1: it in. Can I take your phone with me? Can

2188
01:49:17,080 --> 01:49:19,720
Speaker 1: we just all throw our phones in the river? Um, yeah,

2189
01:49:21,960 --> 01:49:23,840
Speaker 1: if you want to. If you're gonna start at being

2190
01:49:23,920 --> 01:49:27,280
Speaker 1: the weird neighbor, it's a strong start. We've already killed

2191
01:49:27,320 --> 01:49:30,160
Speaker 1: the water system, so it's fine, like just right in

2192
01:49:30,200 --> 01:49:33,320
Speaker 1: the river with the car batteries. You know, they're good

2193
01:49:33,360 --> 01:49:35,280
Speaker 1: for the eels. The thing I love about our show

2194
01:49:35,400 --> 01:49:39,480
Speaker 1: is just the hope, is the incredibly hope injected optimism

2195
01:49:39,560 --> 01:49:43,280
Speaker 1: that we start an end every episode with. But no,

2196
01:49:43,360 --> 01:49:45,519
Speaker 1: I mean like me, like, yeah, the more people you

2197
01:49:45,640 --> 01:49:48,200
Speaker 1: know in your community, especially people who are like working class,

2198
01:49:48,640 --> 01:49:51,800
Speaker 1: you know, when bad stuff starts happening, the more people

2199
01:49:51,880 --> 01:49:54,439
Speaker 1: you know the better, because that's a lot of guessing.

2200
01:49:54,439 --> 01:49:55,920
Speaker 1: A lot of a lot of these people who are

2201
01:49:56,000 --> 01:49:58,479
Speaker 1: like you know, like like like like old like old

2202
01:49:59,120 --> 01:50:01,960
Speaker 1: union workers. They have a lot of like physical skills,

2203
01:50:02,040 --> 01:50:04,240
Speaker 1: like like they know how to do a whole bunch

2204
01:50:04,280 --> 01:50:07,120
Speaker 1: of stuff. And it might be worth getting to know

2205
01:50:07,320 --> 01:50:10,639
Speaker 1: some of those people, even if you know, depending where

2206
01:50:10,680 --> 01:50:12,920
Speaker 1: you live, like yeah, they'll probably say something not great

2207
01:50:13,400 --> 01:50:15,800
Speaker 1: at least for you know, the first bit, but once

2208
01:50:15,920 --> 01:50:17,519
Speaker 1: you know, I have a lot of family and like

2209
01:50:17,600 --> 01:50:21,600
Speaker 1: a rural area of Alberta, and like yeah, my, my

2210
01:50:21,680 --> 01:50:24,439
Speaker 1: family is like pretty gay. Um. So you know, once

2211
01:50:24,479 --> 01:50:26,639
Speaker 1: you're in close to those people, yeah, they're they're gonna

2212
01:50:26,680 --> 01:50:29,680
Speaker 1: say something that's maybe not great. But once they get

2213
01:50:29,760 --> 01:50:31,560
Speaker 1: to like know, you would really be like, oh, like

2214
01:50:31,600 --> 01:50:34,400
Speaker 1: you're another person. They like people actually, you know, people

2215
01:50:34,479 --> 01:50:37,160
Speaker 1: want to be around other people, and they'll even change

2216
01:50:37,200 --> 01:50:39,080
Speaker 1: the way they talk to be like, oh, yeah, maybe

2217
01:50:39,120 --> 01:50:41,160
Speaker 1: this isn't the best way to hang out around people

2218
01:50:41,439 --> 01:50:43,760
Speaker 1: because it's going to drive people away. So yeah, I'll

2219
01:50:43,920 --> 01:50:45,960
Speaker 1: change the way I say some things because like it

2220
01:50:46,240 --> 01:50:48,320
Speaker 1: turns out people actually, like a lot of a lot

2221
01:50:48,360 --> 01:50:50,840
Speaker 1: of folks just kind of want to make their lives

2222
01:50:50,880 --> 01:50:54,000
Speaker 1: a bit better and that's really their main focus. Yeah,

2223
01:50:55,600 --> 01:50:59,080
Speaker 1: it's hard to know to do that. And it's it's

2224
01:50:59,160 --> 01:51:02,240
Speaker 1: it's just this man or of like so much of

2225
01:51:02,439 --> 01:51:05,880
Speaker 1: what um, so much of what kind of the way

2226
01:51:05,960 --> 01:51:10,840
Speaker 1: that discourse happens online has poisoned aspects of activism is

2227
01:51:10,960 --> 01:51:15,960
Speaker 1: in like making it difficult for people to relate in

2228
01:51:16,120 --> 01:51:18,400
Speaker 1: that way without feeling like, well, okay, but if I

2229
01:51:18,439 --> 01:51:20,320
Speaker 1: can't get them on board with all of these other things,

2230
01:51:20,479 --> 01:51:22,719
Speaker 1: like I can't talk with them or whatever, like because

2231
01:51:22,800 --> 01:51:25,320
Speaker 1: they're because they don't agree with this and this like

2232
01:51:25,439 --> 01:51:30,640
Speaker 1: we can't organize like the purity of ideology. Yeah, Like

2233
01:51:30,720 --> 01:51:33,240
Speaker 1: I feel like most people who aren't terminally online don't

2234
01:51:33,280 --> 01:51:38,559
Speaker 1: even necessarily have like a specific ideology not yeah yeah right,

2235
01:51:38,720 --> 01:51:40,960
Speaker 1: Like there's just stuff that they have learned or they

2236
01:51:41,000 --> 01:51:43,320
Speaker 1: have decided that is true about the world. They just

2237
01:51:43,360 --> 01:51:46,120
Speaker 1: kind of go with it and interrogated all the time,

2238
01:51:46,240 --> 01:51:47,880
Speaker 1: and you can like those are people you can talk

2239
01:51:47,920 --> 01:51:50,479
Speaker 1: to and maybe ship, like I've done it with my dad,

2240
01:51:50,760 --> 01:51:53,440
Speaker 1: Like I've seen it happen with some of these conservative

2241
01:51:53,479 --> 01:51:55,720
Speaker 1: coal minor folks. Like even something as small as being

2242
01:51:55,760 --> 01:52:00,240
Speaker 1: able to humanize, like like okay, if you're talking about

2243
01:52:00,240 --> 01:52:02,200
Speaker 1: something like, well the thing you said, like that really

2244
01:52:02,280 --> 01:52:05,400
Speaker 1: upset Joey and you like Joey, so like maybe think

2245
01:52:05,439 --> 01:52:07,640
Speaker 1: about that, and they'll probably be chiller because like, oh,

2246
01:52:07,720 --> 01:52:09,960
Speaker 1: well that's yeah, it's Joey. I can't I don't want

2247
01:52:10,000 --> 01:52:11,600
Speaker 1: to be a dick to them. If we can just

2248
01:52:11,640 --> 01:52:13,879
Speaker 1: find a way to enact that on a very broad scale,

2249
01:52:15,080 --> 01:52:17,559
Speaker 1: life would be a lot better for a lot of people. Yeah,

2250
01:52:17,640 --> 01:52:22,479
Speaker 1: it's this, It's this dichotomy between a lot people want

2251
01:52:22,520 --> 01:52:25,679
Speaker 1: to own the folks they see as like being against

2252
01:52:25,760 --> 01:52:28,080
Speaker 1: them or being on the other side. But also people

2253
01:52:28,160 --> 01:52:31,120
Speaker 1: don't want to be a dick to people that like

2254
01:52:31,320 --> 01:52:33,559
Speaker 1: they like, you don't want to feel like you're a dick.

2255
01:52:34,200 --> 01:52:38,200
Speaker 1: So if you if you lean more into the weird

2256
01:52:38,760 --> 01:52:41,560
Speaker 1: in opposition, then you're going to trigger the well I

2257
01:52:41,640 --> 01:52:44,160
Speaker 1: wanna I want to make the person who disagrees with

2258
01:52:44,280 --> 01:52:47,000
Speaker 1: me angry side of the brain. But if you can

2259
01:52:47,080 --> 01:52:49,880
Speaker 1: lean into the like, hey, like we can get along,

2260
01:52:50,040 --> 01:52:52,479
Speaker 1: like and I and and maybe you don't want to

2261
01:52:52,520 --> 01:52:55,080
Speaker 1: feel like an asshole if we get along, then I

2262
01:52:55,120 --> 01:52:58,600
Speaker 1: don't know, that's a productive place to to continue conversations

2263
01:52:58,640 --> 01:53:00,880
Speaker 1: from and a good way to shift people. And then

2264
01:53:00,920 --> 01:53:03,240
Speaker 1: when you're then when your area floods because of severe

2265
01:53:03,520 --> 01:53:07,200
Speaker 1: rain and storms, that we have people that can help. Yeah,

2266
01:53:07,520 --> 01:53:11,640
Speaker 1: it's the importance of interacting with people in person, like offline,

2267
01:53:11,880 --> 01:53:13,760
Speaker 1: which is like obviously more difficult to do because we're

2268
01:53:13,800 --> 01:53:17,400
Speaker 1: still tried to depend. Yeah, they're like their caveat, caveat caveat,

2269
01:53:17,479 --> 01:53:20,920
Speaker 1: but like it's so much easier to talk to someone

2270
01:53:21,000 --> 01:53:23,439
Speaker 1: and kind of like see the world you shift or

2271
01:53:23,439 --> 01:53:26,600
Speaker 1: even just humanize yourself to someone who is inclined to

2272
01:53:26,680 --> 01:53:29,519
Speaker 1: not thinking of you as someone worth talking to. Like, yeah,

2273
01:53:29,720 --> 01:53:31,519
Speaker 1: as long as it's not you're not putting yourself in danger,

2274
01:53:31,640 --> 01:53:35,360
Speaker 1: like there's yeah, obviously I'm a blond lady, you know.

2275
01:53:35,520 --> 01:53:39,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, still we're not talking about like, oh, you

2276
01:53:39,200 --> 01:53:41,160
Speaker 1: have to go be friendly to people who want to

2277
01:53:41,240 --> 01:53:44,880
Speaker 1: murder you because your trance. No, it's about No, we're

2278
01:53:44,920 --> 01:53:47,439
Speaker 1: not saying that. But most of these people don't think that.

2279
01:53:47,520 --> 01:53:51,000
Speaker 1: Maybe they have some regressive attitude or or they'll use

2280
01:53:51,040 --> 01:53:53,400
Speaker 1: the word gay to mean something, you know, not cool,

2281
01:53:53,400 --> 01:53:55,240
Speaker 1: and you'd be like, hey, you don't have to be like, hey,

2282
01:53:55,640 --> 01:53:58,760
Speaker 1: you know, I'm you know, I'm actually gay jan or

2283
01:53:58,840 --> 01:54:00,840
Speaker 1: maybe don't hope with that. Maybe you depending on the situation,

2284
01:54:00,920 --> 01:54:03,040
Speaker 1: to be like yeah, maybe maybe there's other words that

2285
01:54:03,080 --> 01:54:05,880
Speaker 1: we can use for this, because yeah whatever, Yeah, And

2286
01:54:06,320 --> 01:54:11,640
Speaker 1: and you can shift people into a closer alliance, um,

2287
01:54:11,920 --> 01:54:14,920
Speaker 1: just by becoming a human in their eyes and also

2288
01:54:15,040 --> 01:54:18,479
Speaker 1: letting them become a human in your eyes, um, which

2289
01:54:18,560 --> 01:54:21,680
Speaker 1: is necessary. The other option is not a pleasant one.

2290
01:54:21,760 --> 01:54:25,040
Speaker 1: So I would prefer the option where more people grow

2291
01:54:25,120 --> 01:54:27,920
Speaker 1: to see each other as human and worth supporting. Right,

2292
01:54:27,960 --> 01:54:30,400
Speaker 1: I know there is better tactic to me. Yeah, I

2293
01:54:30,479 --> 01:54:32,520
Speaker 1: know there's this argument where like no one is like

2294
01:54:32,840 --> 01:54:35,240
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have to educate you. I shouldn't have to

2295
01:54:35,720 --> 01:54:38,240
Speaker 1: put the time into to shift you, and like that

2296
01:54:38,480 --> 01:54:40,600
Speaker 1: is valid, that's fair, Like you shouldn't have to but

2297
01:54:40,800 --> 01:54:45,080
Speaker 1: ideally know, yeah, but if you want to that change

2298
01:54:45,120 --> 01:54:47,080
Speaker 1: to happen, it's probably not going to happen unless she

2299
01:54:47,200 --> 01:54:49,120
Speaker 1: puts an effort in because they're probably not gone acual.

2300
01:54:49,120 --> 01:54:53,360
Speaker 1: They think they're fine, And I don't know, there's a

2301
01:54:53,360 --> 01:54:55,640
Speaker 1: bunch of ship that you shouldn't have to do that

2302
01:54:55,840 --> 01:54:58,360
Speaker 1: we're also all gonna have to do Like I shouldn't

2303
01:54:58,480 --> 01:55:00,600
Speaker 1: we I shouldn't have to say, hey, guys, maybe we

2304
01:55:00,640 --> 01:55:03,400
Speaker 1: don't kill the ocean. Maybe killing the ocean is a

2305
01:55:03,440 --> 01:55:05,560
Speaker 1: bad idea, like I shouldn't have to No one should

2306
01:55:05,560 --> 01:55:13,800
Speaker 1: have to say that, but we do not please the

2307
01:55:13,920 --> 01:55:17,000
Speaker 1: fact that you shouldn't have to do something also doesn't

2308
01:55:17,040 --> 01:55:19,000
Speaker 1: mean that like the thing doesn't need to be done.

2309
01:55:19,000 --> 01:55:21,840
Speaker 1: And obviously I don't think that the primary onus on

2310
01:55:22,600 --> 01:55:27,960
Speaker 1: speaking to let's say, the kind of increasingly radicalized white,

2311
01:55:28,120 --> 01:55:31,160
Speaker 1: lower middle and middle class, I don't think that falls

2312
01:55:31,240 --> 01:55:34,480
Speaker 1: primarily on people of color, on on the LGBT community.

2313
01:55:34,480 --> 01:55:37,880
Speaker 1: It falls on people like you and make Kim. You know, yeah,

2314
01:55:38,240 --> 01:55:40,320
Speaker 1: but it's still has to be done. Like it's a

2315
01:55:40,400 --> 01:55:43,400
Speaker 1: thing that needs to be done. And I'm not saying, hey,

2316
01:55:43,480 --> 01:55:46,360
Speaker 1: you out there, who you know, left where you grew

2317
01:55:46,440 --> 01:55:49,560
Speaker 1: up in rural Alabama because someone was going to fucking

2318
01:55:49,640 --> 01:55:51,600
Speaker 1: murder you and you had to get to a place

2319
01:55:51,680 --> 01:55:54,000
Speaker 1: where you could not deal with that. I'm not saying

2320
01:55:54,040 --> 01:55:57,640
Speaker 1: you need to go rolling back to Alabama. Um, but

2321
01:55:58,720 --> 01:56:01,640
Speaker 1: it's good that people are talking and working with and

2322
01:56:01,720 --> 01:56:04,440
Speaker 1: trying to build connections with folks out there and change

2323
01:56:04,680 --> 01:56:07,120
Speaker 1: the nature of kind of aspects of the culture and

2324
01:56:07,200 --> 01:56:09,920
Speaker 1: make things better because that needs to be done. We

2325
01:56:10,000 --> 01:56:14,840
Speaker 1: can't just be like, well fuck some of those people. Yeah,

2326
01:56:14,960 --> 01:56:17,160
Speaker 1: and we get that that is definitely easier if you

2327
01:56:17,200 --> 01:56:19,600
Speaker 1: are like one of the bros. If you are you know,

2328
01:56:19,840 --> 01:56:25,120
Speaker 1: a bigger SIS adjacent dude, that is that is of

2329
01:56:25,160 --> 01:56:28,960
Speaker 1: course going to make things easier. Yeah, I mean what

2330
01:56:29,080 --> 01:56:31,560
Speaker 1: you think about like that's kind of the text, that's

2331
01:56:31,880 --> 01:56:33,720
Speaker 1: the right word. But the fact that you do feel

2332
01:56:33,760 --> 01:56:36,440
Speaker 1: comfortable and you're you're safe and you're not under a

2333
01:56:36,480 --> 01:56:38,720
Speaker 1: threat in those spaces because of who you are, like

2334
01:56:38,840 --> 01:56:40,880
Speaker 1: as like a white SIS or even a white says

2335
01:56:41,000 --> 01:56:44,160
Speaker 1: lady like you like the price you pay for that

2336
01:56:44,320 --> 01:56:46,640
Speaker 1: is making it easier for everyone else to feel that too,

2337
01:56:47,120 --> 01:56:50,240
Speaker 1: Like exactly, like that's your job, other people's jobs to survive,

2338
01:56:50,360 --> 01:56:52,440
Speaker 1: and you can be the one that pushes the boundaries

2339
01:56:52,480 --> 01:56:54,280
Speaker 1: on these things. So when someone says something not great,

2340
01:56:54,320 --> 01:56:55,760
Speaker 1: you can kind of call them out in like a

2341
01:56:55,880 --> 01:56:58,400
Speaker 1: browish way, and they can respond to that a lot

2342
01:56:58,480 --> 01:57:01,680
Speaker 1: better than, you know, than a lot of other people

2343
01:57:01,800 --> 01:57:04,040
Speaker 1: who they don't know, you know, screaming at them in

2344
01:57:04,160 --> 01:57:07,200
Speaker 1: a no context scenario. We're like, oh, like, oh, you don't.

2345
01:57:07,200 --> 01:57:08,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm a pretty lady. You don't want to

2346
01:57:08,880 --> 01:57:11,680
Speaker 1: make me upset by being rude, that's exactly, yeah, Like

2347
01:57:11,720 --> 01:57:14,600
Speaker 1: you shouldn't. You should see this thing as rude and

2348
01:57:14,680 --> 01:57:17,760
Speaker 1: not okay, like the amount of men who have apologized

2349
01:57:17,800 --> 01:57:21,840
Speaker 1: me down there for swearing it's so funny. Yeah, man,

2350
01:57:22,000 --> 01:57:24,640
Speaker 1: my dude, I live in Philadelphia, But that's cute. But

2351
01:57:24,720 --> 01:57:27,480
Speaker 1: if I could dis harness any of that, like chivalrous

2352
01:57:27,640 --> 01:57:32,840
Speaker 1: whatever patriarchal viewpoint, like, hey, apply this to being cool

2353
01:57:32,920 --> 01:57:35,160
Speaker 1: to my trans friends, are like not being rude to

2354
01:57:35,200 --> 01:57:40,680
Speaker 1: anyone else, Like sure, I'm down. Yeah, we don't take

2355
01:57:40,760 --> 01:57:46,400
Speaker 1: kindly to miss gendering around these parts. Yeah, for a

2356
01:57:46,440 --> 01:57:47,760
Speaker 1: lot of people at least, like you know, when I

2357
01:57:47,840 --> 01:57:49,880
Speaker 1: worked at like smaller workplaces, you know, where it's like

2358
01:57:49,880 --> 01:57:52,560
Speaker 1: a small business where I know the owner. Even if

2359
01:57:52,640 --> 01:57:54,760
Speaker 1: I mean, if some other employees want to unilize, the

2360
01:57:54,760 --> 01:57:57,320
Speaker 1: prospect is always kind of more weird or challenging because

2361
01:57:57,360 --> 01:57:59,200
Speaker 1: you know, it's a smaller business. Maybe it's like connected

2362
01:57:59,240 --> 01:58:02,080
Speaker 1: to like a larger you know, larger overall industry. You know,

2363
01:58:02,160 --> 01:58:03,480
Speaker 1: like when I was like when I when I was

2364
01:58:03,480 --> 01:58:07,040
Speaker 1: like a park or instructor, right, I had discussions with

2365
01:58:07,080 --> 01:58:08,960
Speaker 1: other with other like employees about doing you know, like

2366
01:58:09,200 --> 01:58:11,600
Speaker 1: a park or instructors union type thing. But but it's

2367
01:58:11,640 --> 01:58:13,400
Speaker 1: it's it's hard when there's there's like not many of

2368
01:58:13,480 --> 01:58:15,280
Speaker 1: you or like you know the owner. What would you

2369
01:58:15,320 --> 01:58:17,440
Speaker 1: say is like good good ways to at least get

2370
01:58:17,560 --> 01:58:20,440
Speaker 1: get that conversation going among other employees and then you know,

2371
01:58:21,960 --> 01:58:25,320
Speaker 1: like similar similar examples from other stuff for people who

2372
01:58:25,400 --> 01:58:27,080
Speaker 1: deal with like smaller workplaces that aren't you know, like

2373
01:58:27,160 --> 01:58:29,320
Speaker 1: a coworker. They're not working for the Amazon or anything.

2374
01:58:29,360 --> 01:58:32,600
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's more like small local stuff, right. So,

2375
01:58:32,760 --> 01:58:36,600
Speaker 1: like the most important basic building block of of all

2376
01:58:36,720 --> 01:58:40,240
Speaker 1: this is one on one conversation that's organizing, right, and

2377
01:58:40,280 --> 01:58:41,840
Speaker 1: even if you just work with like three or four

2378
01:58:41,880 --> 01:58:45,320
Speaker 1: other people and maybe unionizing and a formal structure doesn't

2379
01:58:45,320 --> 01:58:47,160
Speaker 1: necessarily make sense or it seems like it might be

2380
01:58:47,200 --> 01:58:49,720
Speaker 1: too much of a headache, you're still you know, like

2381
01:58:49,840 --> 01:58:51,920
Speaker 1: a group of workers coming together. It's still a union.

2382
01:58:51,920 --> 01:58:53,400
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what n l r B has to

2383
01:58:53,440 --> 01:58:56,360
Speaker 1: say about it. And you you have shared interests and

2384
01:58:56,440 --> 01:58:58,600
Speaker 1: share challenges, and there's things that work you probably want

2385
01:58:58,640 --> 01:59:01,560
Speaker 1: to change, so even coming together and discussing that with

2386
01:59:01,680 --> 01:59:03,880
Speaker 1: your coworkers, like, there's no law that says you have

2387
01:59:04,080 --> 01:59:05,400
Speaker 1: to be in a union. If you want to get

2388
01:59:05,440 --> 01:59:07,800
Speaker 1: some ship done, you can march on your boss at

2389
01:59:07,960 --> 01:59:10,200
Speaker 1: WW style and make them and demand a meeting. You

2390
01:59:10,240 --> 01:59:13,200
Speaker 1: can make a petition, you can do public pressure campaigns

2391
01:59:13,280 --> 01:59:15,240
Speaker 1: like all of the things, not all of them, but

2392
01:59:15,360 --> 01:59:17,560
Speaker 1: a lot of the tools that we see organized labor

2393
01:59:17,960 --> 01:59:21,280
Speaker 1: engaging in and unions engaging in those are those are

2394
01:59:22,680 --> 01:59:25,360
Speaker 1: available to everyone else too. It's easier if you're within

2395
01:59:25,400 --> 01:59:27,680
Speaker 1: that framework because you have that firepower behind you, and

2396
01:59:27,760 --> 01:59:30,839
Speaker 1: you have maybe some legal protections, but just as workers,

2397
01:59:31,320 --> 01:59:34,000
Speaker 1: you know, I guess it's more like the IWW solidarity

2398
01:59:34,040 --> 01:59:36,760
Speaker 1: uneuse a multiply where like we didn't like, we don't

2399
01:59:36,760 --> 01:59:38,640
Speaker 1: need to do no stink ad badges, like we're a

2400
01:59:38,760 --> 01:59:40,920
Speaker 1: union because we say we're a union, we're going to

2401
01:59:41,040 --> 01:59:44,240
Speaker 1: take control of things in our own way. Like you

2402
01:59:44,320 --> 01:59:46,800
Speaker 1: see this in UM. I'm trying to say, I think

2403
01:59:47,320 --> 01:59:49,400
Speaker 1: what's it called diversity threast there's a there's a thrift

2404
01:59:49,440 --> 01:59:53,320
Speaker 1: shopping I think Richmond, Virginia where workers just like they

2405
01:59:53,360 --> 01:59:55,120
Speaker 1: weren't being treated properly. I think it was like a

2406
01:59:55,240 --> 01:59:57,480
Speaker 1: like a queer community space that wasn't living up to

2407
01:59:57,640 --> 02:00:00,440
Speaker 1: its values due to actions by management, and so they

2408
02:00:00,560 --> 02:00:02,520
Speaker 1: just put a letter on the doors that we're not

2409
02:00:02,640 --> 02:00:06,240
Speaker 1: coming to work until you fix this. Here are clear demands,

2410
02:00:06,440 --> 02:00:09,320
Speaker 1: here's what we need here, you go figure it out.

2411
02:00:09,640 --> 02:00:11,400
Speaker 1: Like I don't think they're in a formal union, but

2412
02:00:11,440 --> 02:00:14,760
Speaker 1: they're acting collectively, and that's something that is totally available

2413
02:00:15,040 --> 02:00:17,160
Speaker 1: that to everyone as long as you're in a workplace.

2414
02:00:17,680 --> 02:00:20,200
Speaker 1: If you're independent contractor like me and probably some of you,

2415
02:00:20,800 --> 02:00:23,640
Speaker 1: that sucks and it's harder, but you can always find

2416
02:00:23,680 --> 02:00:26,800
Speaker 1: your people and you can always there's always options, right,

2417
02:00:26,920 --> 02:00:28,520
Speaker 1: Like you don't have to just join at union. You

2418
02:00:28,520 --> 02:00:33,320
Speaker 1: don't have to be a teamster to get shipped done. Yeah,

2419
02:00:33,360 --> 02:00:34,880
Speaker 1: I think you know, when you were saying that, I

2420
02:00:34,960 --> 02:00:36,880
Speaker 1: was going through my past experience as a place like that.

2421
02:00:36,960 --> 02:00:38,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, we we kind of did do some

2422
02:00:38,920 --> 02:00:41,800
Speaker 1: of that stuff to varying degrees of success. Sometimes it

2423
02:00:41,880 --> 02:00:44,880
Speaker 1: works out well, sometimes it doesn't work out so well. Um,

2424
02:00:45,200 --> 02:00:46,920
Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean there was definitely a while where

2425
02:00:47,080 --> 02:00:49,240
Speaker 1: we did that did definitely makes them make some decent

2426
02:00:49,360 --> 02:00:53,080
Speaker 1: changes kind of based on on that model. Yeah, it's

2427
02:00:53,120 --> 02:00:55,400
Speaker 1: kind of a shift of perception where like you were

2428
02:00:55,440 --> 02:00:57,040
Speaker 1: just doing this because this is because you're a worker,

2429
02:00:57,080 --> 02:00:58,560
Speaker 1: and like we need to do this. But if you

2430
02:00:58,720 --> 02:01:00,440
Speaker 1: just take a step back and think, but it's like

2431
02:01:00,720 --> 02:01:03,120
Speaker 1: this is a labor action, We're a union of workers.

2432
02:01:03,240 --> 02:01:05,520
Speaker 1: Like even just that little shift where it's like it's

2433
02:01:06,080 --> 02:01:08,920
Speaker 1: it's always us against them, but look as us as

2434
02:01:08,920 --> 02:01:12,240
Speaker 1: a little as a group, as a collective against this manager,

2435
02:01:12,320 --> 02:01:15,520
Speaker 1: against this exploitative practice. I think that has a little

2436
02:01:15,520 --> 02:01:17,720
Speaker 1: bit of power and a little bit of energy because

2437
02:01:17,760 --> 02:01:20,440
Speaker 1: your religion now and I'm still I think maybe it

2438
02:01:20,480 --> 02:01:24,320
Speaker 1: makes you feel a little less alone. And also and

2439
02:01:24,440 --> 02:01:28,040
Speaker 1: like you know, concerned activity is a legally protective regard too,

2440
02:01:28,360 --> 02:01:30,280
Speaker 1: so like there are some busin pieces of labor law

2441
02:01:30,360 --> 02:01:32,480
Speaker 1: that are useful in these situations too, if you have

2442
02:01:33,000 --> 02:01:35,240
Speaker 1: a nerdy friend who would like to read about them

2443
02:01:35,280 --> 02:01:42,200
Speaker 1: for you. All right, well I think that's going to

2444
02:01:42,320 --> 02:01:44,280
Speaker 1: do it for us here and it could happen here.

2445
02:01:44,600 --> 02:01:51,360
Speaker 1: Um until next time, remember, um, you fuck it organized?

2446
02:01:51,920 --> 02:01:55,040
Speaker 1: And where can people find Kim Kelly online? If we

2447
02:01:55,080 --> 02:01:58,760
Speaker 1: want to send angry tweets? Oh well just try me

2448
02:01:58,880 --> 02:02:04,280
Speaker 1: buddy at grim Kim because my college radio DJ name

2449
02:02:04,320 --> 02:02:07,840
Speaker 1: will never die. And uh you can if you are

2450
02:02:07,960 --> 02:02:10,800
Speaker 1: thus inclined, you can pre order my book. But like hell,

2451
02:02:11,040 --> 02:02:14,960
Speaker 1: the Untold History of American Labor on the internet hopefully

2452
02:02:15,000 --> 02:02:18,640
Speaker 1: not Amazon, hopefully not. Yeah. I mean if you do, like,

2453
02:02:18,720 --> 02:02:21,880
Speaker 1: thank you, But there's other places that are better. You

2454
02:02:22,120 --> 02:02:23,440
Speaker 1: Do you want people to send you a bunch of

2455
02:02:23,560 --> 02:02:28,000
Speaker 1: random knives Kim knives? I mean I wouldn't. We've had

2456
02:02:28,000 --> 02:02:30,000
Speaker 1: a lot of luck with that in the past. I

2457
02:02:30,160 --> 02:02:33,280
Speaker 1: like nice that, like skincare, I like loose leaf tea.

2458
02:02:33,680 --> 02:02:37,320
Speaker 1: I contain multitudes. Really, send Kim a loose leaf t

2459
02:02:37,520 --> 02:02:42,120
Speaker 1: skincare knife, one of those one of those exfoliating knives

2460
02:02:42,240 --> 02:02:45,120
Speaker 1: with a with a t infuser in the in the hilt.

2461
02:02:46,200 --> 02:02:49,040
Speaker 1: Somebody make that great. Sounds like that, sounds like the

2462
02:02:49,080 --> 02:02:53,240
Speaker 1: next behind the Bastards merch. Yeah, the t Knife. Yeah, well,

2463
02:02:53,320 --> 02:02:55,400
Speaker 1: we'll put that out after we get finished where We've

2464
02:02:55,440 --> 02:02:58,160
Speaker 1: got a very exciting Black Friday product this year, which

2465
02:02:58,280 --> 02:03:04,200
Speaker 1: is a male to mail uh an adapter. People say

2466
02:03:04,240 --> 02:03:06,600
Speaker 1: you shouldn't do it, They say it causes electrocution and

2467
02:03:06,680 --> 02:03:08,640
Speaker 1: fires and death, And I think those people are cuts

2468
02:03:09,120 --> 02:03:12,360
Speaker 1: um by our mail to mail adapter show the the

2469
02:03:12,480 --> 02:03:30,200
Speaker 1: woke establishment that you won't be you won't be changed. Hey, everybody,

2470
02:03:30,360 --> 02:03:32,320
Speaker 1: Robert Evans here, this is it could happen here to

2471
02:03:32,400 --> 02:03:34,800
Speaker 1: show about how things are falling apart and how maybe

2472
02:03:34,920 --> 02:03:39,200
Speaker 1: they could be made a bit better. Right now, today

2473
02:03:39,440 --> 02:03:43,000
Speaker 1: we're doing an episode that is based on a I

2474
02:03:43,040 --> 02:03:46,280
Speaker 1: don't know essay Garrison wrote and I edited that we

2475
02:03:46,360 --> 02:03:50,680
Speaker 1: think you'll find interesting. So here it goes. Green capitalism

2476
02:03:50,720 --> 02:03:53,840
Speaker 1: promises to deliver us all the same luxuries and commodities

2477
02:03:53,880 --> 02:03:56,320
Speaker 1: that we enjoy today, but without doing net harm to

2478
02:03:56,400 --> 02:03:59,880
Speaker 1: the biosphere. It's the message liberal elites try to hold

2479
02:04:00,080 --> 02:04:02,520
Speaker 1: on when they make their case for being better stewards

2480
02:04:02,560 --> 02:04:06,440
Speaker 1: of the environment than Republicans. This is not untrue, but

2481
02:04:06,560 --> 02:04:09,040
Speaker 1: it's also not true enough to stop your house from

2482
02:04:09,080 --> 02:04:11,960
Speaker 1: flooding or your town from being incinerated in a hell storm.

2483
02:04:12,720 --> 02:04:16,200
Speaker 1: When it comes to the methods green capitalism posits by

2484
02:04:16,240 --> 02:04:19,160
Speaker 1: which we might reverse course without changing the direction of

2485
02:04:19,240 --> 02:04:23,040
Speaker 1: the ship, one term you'll here often is energy efficiency.

2486
02:04:23,560 --> 02:04:25,560
Speaker 1: I want to read a statement I found on white

2487
02:04:25,600 --> 02:04:28,440
Speaker 1: House dot gov, a fact sheet on the new US

2488
02:04:28,560 --> 02:04:31,760
Speaker 1: government commitment to reduce carbon emissions by fifty to fifty

2489
02:04:33,800 --> 02:04:36,880
Speaker 1: I should note that's fifty of the two thousand five levels,

2490
02:04:36,920 --> 02:04:39,920
Speaker 1: which were like fiftcent high or something like that. Anyway,

2491
02:04:40,200 --> 02:04:43,640
Speaker 1: here's the quote. The United States can create good paying

2492
02:04:43,720 --> 02:04:46,600
Speaker 1: jobs and cut emissions and energy costs for families by

2493
02:04:46,640 --> 02:04:50,400
Speaker 1: supporting efficiency upgrades and electrification and buildings. Through support for

2494
02:04:50,560 --> 02:04:55,000
Speaker 1: job creating retrofit programs and sustainable affordable housing, wider use

2495
02:04:55,040 --> 02:04:57,920
Speaker 1: of heat pumps and induction stoves, adoption of modern energy

2496
02:04:57,960 --> 02:05:00,720
Speaker 1: codes for new buildings. The United it States will also

2497
02:05:00,800 --> 02:05:04,160
Speaker 1: invest in new technologies to reduce emissions associated with construction,

2498
02:05:04,280 --> 02:05:09,720
Speaker 1: including for high performance electrified buildings. Now, energy efficiency is

2499
02:05:09,760 --> 02:05:12,400
Speaker 1: in fact a fine goal, and trying to reduce emissions

2500
02:05:12,480 --> 02:05:15,640
Speaker 1: is broadly good. But the sad and kind of weird

2501
02:05:15,760 --> 02:05:19,720
Speaker 1: fact is that increasing efficiency can sometimes mean increasing pollution

2502
02:05:20,000 --> 02:05:23,120
Speaker 1: through what's known as the efficiency paradox, which is of

2503
02:05:23,200 --> 02:05:26,040
Speaker 1: course the title of the episode, because what you want

2504
02:05:26,120 --> 02:05:28,200
Speaker 1: you want us to think of a second title, of

2505
02:05:28,240 --> 02:05:31,560
Speaker 1: a separate title from that. Come on. So, first off,

2506
02:05:32,120 --> 02:05:36,520
Speaker 1: what does energy efficiency mean? In general terms? Energy efficiency

2507
02:05:36,600 --> 02:05:38,919
Speaker 1: refers to the amount of output that can be produced

2508
02:05:39,000 --> 02:05:42,320
Speaker 1: with a given input of energy. Output being stuff that

2509
02:05:42,520 --> 02:05:44,760
Speaker 1: energy is used to do, like like your house, or

2510
02:05:44,840 --> 02:05:48,960
Speaker 1: wash your clothing, or power your wall mounted twenty volt

2511
02:05:49,120 --> 02:05:52,120
Speaker 1: vibrator that requires as much electricity as an arc welder

2512
02:05:52,160 --> 02:05:55,520
Speaker 1: in order to use. Energy savings are the reduction of

2513
02:05:55,640 --> 02:05:59,040
Speaker 1: energy use without the loss of output produced. Improved energy

2514
02:05:59,080 --> 02:06:02,080
Speaker 1: efficiency is exped to bring a number of benefits. First

2515
02:06:02,120 --> 02:06:06,440
Speaker 1: of all, reducing energy usage should result in lower energy bills. Ideally,

2516
02:06:06,560 --> 02:06:10,360
Speaker 1: reduced energy demand also means that energy imports can be decreased.

2517
02:06:10,760 --> 02:06:14,760
Speaker 1: The International Energy Agency has estimated that strict efficiency policies

2518
02:06:14,800 --> 02:06:17,600
Speaker 1: could allow the world to achieve more than forty of

2519
02:06:17,680 --> 02:06:20,880
Speaker 1: the greenhouse gas emissions cuts needed to reach its climate

2520
02:06:20,960 --> 02:06:24,920
Speaker 1: goals even without new technology. So there is considerable wiggle

2521
02:06:25,000 --> 02:06:28,400
Speaker 1: room within the existing structures of global society to reduce

2522
02:06:28,440 --> 02:06:33,800
Speaker 1: emissions a lot without fancy space technology but despite substantial

2523
02:06:33,920 --> 02:06:36,720
Speaker 1: energy efficiency gains in the past few decades and decreases

2524
02:06:36,720 --> 02:06:39,520
Speaker 1: an output from places like the United States, we as

2525
02:06:39,560 --> 02:06:42,520
Speaker 1: a species are using more energy than we have pretty

2526
02:06:42,600 --> 02:06:46,240
Speaker 1: much forever, and emissions wildly surpass are or the Earth's

2527
02:06:46,240 --> 02:06:50,200
Speaker 1: ability to handle them. Quoting from the Global Carbon Project quote,

2528
02:06:50,520 --> 02:06:54,760
Speaker 1: global energy growth is outpacing decarbonization. Despite positive progress in

2529
02:06:54,800 --> 02:06:57,440
Speaker 1: twenty countries whose economies have grown over the last decade

2530
02:06:57,480 --> 02:07:00,560
Speaker 1: and their emissions have declined, growth and energy from fossil

2531
02:07:00,600 --> 02:07:03,280
Speaker 1: fuel sources is still outpacing the rise of low carbon

2532
02:07:03,360 --> 02:07:07,440
Speaker 1: sources and activities. A robust global economy in sufficient emission

2533
02:07:07,560 --> 02:07:10,560
Speaker 1: reductions and developed countries in a need for increased energy

2534
02:07:10,680 --> 02:07:13,600
Speaker 1: use in developing countries where per capita emissions remain far

2535
02:07:13,680 --> 02:07:16,480
Speaker 1: below those of wealthier nations, will continue to put upward

2536
02:07:16,520 --> 02:07:19,959
Speaker 1: pressure on CEO two emissions. They use the term developing

2537
02:07:20,240 --> 02:07:24,760
Speaker 1: UM and developed We don't prefer those. But obviously population

2538
02:07:24,800 --> 02:07:27,560
Speaker 1: growth contributes to all that, the growth and the use

2539
02:07:27,640 --> 02:07:31,000
Speaker 1: of energy and the emissions of carbon um. You know,

2540
02:07:31,120 --> 02:07:33,080
Speaker 1: more people, more cars in the road, whatever, But it's

2541
02:07:33,120 --> 02:07:36,680
Speaker 1: not really the primary factor that's adding onto the increase

2542
02:07:36,720 --> 02:07:39,120
Speaker 1: in energy use for the human race. We'll talk about

2543
02:07:39,160 --> 02:07:41,520
Speaker 1: that later, though for now, it's important to note that

2544
02:07:41,920 --> 02:07:44,800
Speaker 1: the full potential energy savings, like in these kind of

2545
02:07:44,880 --> 02:07:47,720
Speaker 1: hypotheticals about how much could be saved by improving efficiency,

2546
02:07:47,840 --> 02:07:51,200
Speaker 1: are usually estimated by assuming that demand for energy services

2547
02:07:51,280 --> 02:07:55,000
Speaker 1: will remain unchanged after energy efficiency gains. So when they

2548
02:07:55,080 --> 02:07:59,080
Speaker 1: say that we can get the greenhouse emissions, gases gas

2549
02:07:59,160 --> 02:08:03,440
Speaker 1: reductions we need by increasing efficiency, they're doing that assuming

2550
02:08:03,480 --> 02:08:06,160
Speaker 1: that nothing will change about our overall energy use when

2551
02:08:06,200 --> 02:08:09,520
Speaker 1: we make things more efficient. But time and time again

2552
02:08:09,600 --> 02:08:11,960
Speaker 1: we see that once products are made more energy efficient,

2553
02:08:12,240 --> 02:08:15,560
Speaker 1: people often end up consuming, producing, or even using more

2554
02:08:15,640 --> 02:08:19,200
Speaker 1: of the thing, which makes the potential savings less meaningful

2555
02:08:19,280 --> 02:08:21,400
Speaker 1: in a net result. Doesn't mean that it's not a

2556
02:08:21,480 --> 02:08:23,480
Speaker 1: net good, but it's not as much as is often

2557
02:08:23,520 --> 02:08:27,360
Speaker 1: calculated in these climate proposals. You can see this demonstrated

2558
02:08:27,400 --> 02:08:30,240
Speaker 1: on the job. If you're in say food services, if

2559
02:08:30,280 --> 02:08:32,200
Speaker 1: you happen to figure out how to do a task faster,

2560
02:08:32,440 --> 02:08:34,800
Speaker 1: your boss probably isn't gonna let you use that extra

2561
02:08:34,880 --> 02:08:37,880
Speaker 1: time to just chill out and do stuff on your phone. Um.

2562
02:08:38,120 --> 02:08:40,960
Speaker 1: What is the phrase, if you can lean, you can clean? Um?

2563
02:08:41,120 --> 02:08:44,040
Speaker 1: So if you do something faster, now, You're just expected

2564
02:08:44,080 --> 02:08:46,640
Speaker 1: to do it faster all the time and output more

2565
02:08:46,720 --> 02:08:49,880
Speaker 1: total work for your boss. This is the paradox of efficiency,

2566
02:08:49,960 --> 02:08:52,520
Speaker 1: and it applies to energy as well. On a societal level,

2567
02:08:52,880 --> 02:08:56,200
Speaker 1: Increased energy efficiency is a double edged sword, having the

2568
02:08:56,240 --> 02:08:59,800
Speaker 1: potential to help cut emissions by a significant factor um

2569
02:09:00,040 --> 02:09:02,640
Speaker 1: and having the potential to increase our total energy use

2570
02:09:02,720 --> 02:09:05,360
Speaker 1: depending on what is made more efficient and how people

2571
02:09:05,440 --> 02:09:08,880
Speaker 1: react to it. The idea that energy efficiency improvements can

2572
02:09:08,920 --> 02:09:11,800
Speaker 1: actually lead to more overall energy use goes all the

2573
02:09:11,840 --> 02:09:14,680
Speaker 1: way back to the start of the Industrial Revolution. In

2574
02:09:14,800 --> 02:09:18,560
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty five, economist William Stanley Jeevens published a book

2575
02:09:18,680 --> 02:09:21,879
Speaker 1: called The Coal Question, in which he argued that innovation

2576
02:09:22,000 --> 02:09:24,640
Speaker 1: and efficiency, particularly in the case of the coal powered

2577
02:09:24,680 --> 02:09:28,200
Speaker 1: steam engine, would actually increase the overall consumption of coal,

2578
02:09:28,400 --> 02:09:30,840
Speaker 1: rather than reducing it as it had been intended to do.

2579
02:09:31,600 --> 02:09:34,640
Speaker 1: His prediction that efficiency improvements on steam engines would lead

2580
02:09:34,680 --> 02:09:39,200
Speaker 1: to massive economic expansion accelerating coal consumption was very much correct.

2581
02:09:39,680 --> 02:09:43,360
Speaker 1: This idea, then dubbed the Jeevens paradox, is still very

2582
02:09:43,440 --> 02:09:47,040
Speaker 1: much worth considering when we discuss efficiency gains and policies

2583
02:09:47,080 --> 02:09:50,160
Speaker 1: that are meant to reduce energy consumption and thereby fight

2584
02:09:50,240 --> 02:09:53,840
Speaker 1: climate change. In modern terms, we described the process by

2585
02:09:53,880 --> 02:09:57,360
Speaker 1: which potential energy savings can be cut by greater use

2586
02:09:57,520 --> 02:10:00,760
Speaker 1: of the energy efficient product as the re bound effect.

2587
02:10:01,280 --> 02:10:04,040
Speaker 1: There are two different kinds of rebound effects observed, the

2588
02:10:04,120 --> 02:10:06,920
Speaker 1: most obvious of which is dubbed the direct rebound effect.

2589
02:10:07,440 --> 02:10:10,880
Speaker 1: Direct rebounds are observed when improvements and energy efficiency for

2590
02:10:10,960 --> 02:10:14,800
Speaker 1: a particular energy service reduces the effective price of that

2591
02:10:14,960 --> 02:10:18,360
Speaker 1: service and thus provides incentives to increase its demand. This

2592
02:10:18,520 --> 02:10:21,800
Speaker 1: leads to the overall increased efficiency, not equaling to a

2593
02:10:21,880 --> 02:10:25,680
Speaker 1: reduction energy use as as you might think. Direct rebounds

2594
02:10:25,720 --> 02:10:28,720
Speaker 1: are observed when improvements and energy efficiency for a particular

2595
02:10:28,840 --> 02:10:31,720
Speaker 1: energy service reduces the effective price of that enough that

2596
02:10:31,800 --> 02:10:35,480
Speaker 1: it provides incentives to increase its demand. You may upgrade

2597
02:10:35,520 --> 02:10:38,000
Speaker 1: to a more energy efficient appliance, but because of the

2598
02:10:38,080 --> 02:10:40,680
Speaker 1: lower energy costs, you'll use the appliance more often and

2599
02:10:40,800 --> 02:10:44,160
Speaker 1: thus use more total energy. Or in some cases, energy

2600
02:10:44,240 --> 02:10:47,240
Speaker 1: efficiency gains are cut by the fact that more efficient

2601
02:10:47,280 --> 02:10:51,240
Speaker 1: products allow people to use more of that product. For example,

2602
02:10:51,360 --> 02:10:54,800
Speaker 1: someone may get a more efficient fridge that's also much larger,

2603
02:10:55,120 --> 02:10:57,720
Speaker 1: and so even though it cools more efficiently, it's also

2604
02:10:57,840 --> 02:11:02,560
Speaker 1: consuming overall, more energy, transportation has a lot of direct rebounds.

2605
02:11:02,640 --> 02:11:06,320
Speaker 1: Despite massive fuel efficiency gains in recent years, transportation is

2606
02:11:06,360 --> 02:11:11,600
Speaker 1: still responsible for twent of global greenhouse gas emissions. Transportations

2607
02:11:11,640 --> 02:11:15,000
Speaker 1: contribution to global warming is quickly increasing, with travel producing

2608
02:11:15,120 --> 02:11:19,200
Speaker 1: greater and greater percentages of the planet's carbon footprint. Private

2609
02:11:19,240 --> 02:11:22,560
Speaker 1: automobile tailpipes will drive this phenomenon for the foreseeable future,

2610
02:11:22,680 --> 02:11:24,720
Speaker 1: as the number of active vehicles on the road is

2611
02:11:24,760 --> 02:11:27,040
Speaker 1: projected to grow from seven hundred million in the year

2612
02:11:27,120 --> 02:11:31,040
Speaker 1: two thousand to two billion byt So, even though cars

2613
02:11:31,040 --> 02:11:34,000
Speaker 1: are a lot more efficient, vastly more cars are being used.

2614
02:11:34,040 --> 02:11:37,160
Speaker 1: And of course that's not entirely. It doesn't mean that, like,

2615
02:11:37,360 --> 02:11:39,720
Speaker 1: more efficient cars cause people to buy more cars, but

2616
02:11:39,800 --> 02:11:42,200
Speaker 1: it does make it more affordable for more people to

2617
02:11:42,280 --> 02:11:45,080
Speaker 1: own cars and to drive them further, which drives up,

2618
02:11:45,240 --> 02:11:48,600
Speaker 1: you know, fuel use and drives up emissions. And you

2619
02:11:48,680 --> 02:11:51,120
Speaker 1: see how the whole problem works. And it's not just cars.

2620
02:11:51,200 --> 02:11:54,080
Speaker 1: When planes became more fuel efficient, ticket prices decrease and

2621
02:11:54,160 --> 02:11:57,040
Speaker 1: more people started to travel by plane. As cost per

2622
02:11:57,120 --> 02:12:00,000
Speaker 1: mile dropped, more miles were flown. The fact that airplane

2623
02:12:00,040 --> 02:12:02,920
Speaker 1: has got more fuel efficient didn't reduce general pollution by

2624
02:12:03,000 --> 02:12:06,160
Speaker 1: the air travel industry quite to the contrary. In fact,

2625
02:12:06,320 --> 02:12:09,160
Speaker 1: the decreased emissions led to an increase in air travel,

2626
02:12:09,400 --> 02:12:11,440
Speaker 1: which shot a hell of a lot more poison out

2627
02:12:11,480 --> 02:12:13,800
Speaker 1: into the sky and also gave us eat pray love.

2628
02:12:13,920 --> 02:12:17,680
Speaker 1: So the other kinds of rebounds are indirect rebound effects.

2629
02:12:18,000 --> 02:12:21,360
Speaker 1: This refers to when energy efficiency leads to monetary savings

2630
02:12:21,440 --> 02:12:24,200
Speaker 1: for a producer or consumer, who then can spend those

2631
02:12:24,240 --> 02:12:27,160
Speaker 1: extra savings on other carbon emitting goods and services that

2632
02:12:27,240 --> 02:12:30,400
Speaker 1: otherwise they couldn't afford. For example, you buy a more

2633
02:12:30,440 --> 02:12:32,680
Speaker 1: fuel efficient car, you save money on fuel, and you

2634
02:12:32,720 --> 02:12:34,560
Speaker 1: went up with extra funds in your bank account that

2635
02:12:34,600 --> 02:12:36,400
Speaker 1: you can use on a vacation, and maybe you take

2636
02:12:36,440 --> 02:12:38,560
Speaker 1: a flight on that vacation. So in the end, you

2637
02:12:38,640 --> 02:12:40,760
Speaker 1: emit more c O two despite the fact that you're

2638
02:12:40,760 --> 02:12:43,280
Speaker 1: emitting less c O two through your car. You've got

2639
02:12:43,360 --> 02:12:45,320
Speaker 1: five bucks extra in the bank and you fly to

2640
02:12:45,360 --> 02:12:48,920
Speaker 1: Mexico on it. Right, that's an indirect rebound effect. So

2641
02:12:49,160 --> 02:12:51,480
Speaker 1: even if a product is replaced by a more efficient

2642
02:12:51,560 --> 02:12:54,480
Speaker 1: one with similar spects, lower energy bills can mean that

2643
02:12:54,560 --> 02:12:57,000
Speaker 1: more consumers will have more money to spend on goods

2644
02:12:57,040 --> 02:13:00,040
Speaker 1: and services. This is generally seen as desirable from a

2645
02:13:00,160 --> 02:13:03,800
Speaker 1: social and economic standpoint, and probably from an individual standpoint.

2646
02:13:03,840 --> 02:13:07,120
Speaker 1: Having more money is always useful UM, but it involves

2647
02:13:07,160 --> 02:13:10,760
Speaker 1: additional energy consumption means that you're consuming more, you're emitting

2648
02:13:10,840 --> 02:13:14,200
Speaker 1: more UM, and so the savings and whatnot have it

2649
02:13:14,280 --> 02:13:16,360
Speaker 1: actually led to a savings in terms of you know,

2650
02:13:16,480 --> 02:13:19,880
Speaker 1: from an environmental perspective. An analysis of EU data shows

2651
02:13:19,920 --> 02:13:22,840
Speaker 1: that out of twenty nine EU countries, eleven experienced rebound

2652
02:13:22,880 --> 02:13:25,920
Speaker 1: effects of over fifty, which means more than half of

2653
02:13:26,000 --> 02:13:30,040
Speaker 1: the gains in energy efficiency were consumed by increases in

2654
02:13:30,560 --> 02:13:34,160
Speaker 1: energy use. Six of those countries, including Denmark in Finland,

2655
02:13:34,320 --> 02:13:38,120
Speaker 1: reached over rebound effects. This is called a backfire, and

2656
02:13:38,200 --> 02:13:41,200
Speaker 1: it means that in those six countries, extra energy spending

2657
02:13:41,400 --> 02:13:45,320
Speaker 1: overtook all of the efficiency gains achieved. Air Conditioning and

2658
02:13:45,400 --> 02:13:48,680
Speaker 1: heating are large contributors to both direct and indirect rebounds.

2659
02:13:48,960 --> 02:13:51,480
Speaker 1: A rebound effect as large as sixty has been shown

2660
02:13:51,520 --> 02:13:54,960
Speaker 1: in increased improvements and efficiency in the residential heating sector,

2661
02:13:55,200 --> 02:13:58,040
Speaker 1: which is something that the White House specifically quote about

2662
02:13:58,080 --> 02:14:01,520
Speaker 1: in their paper. In China, long term rebound effects ranging

2663
02:14:01,560 --> 02:14:04,240
Speaker 1: from forty six percent to fifty six percent for residential

2664
02:14:04,280 --> 02:14:07,480
Speaker 1: electricity consumption in Beijing have been estimated. All of this

2665
02:14:07,640 --> 02:14:10,400
Speaker 1: data casts doubt on the wisdom of relying on energy

2666
02:14:10,480 --> 02:14:14,080
Speaker 1: efficiency policies to reduce energy demand. I'm gonna quote here

2667
02:14:14,120 --> 02:14:17,200
Speaker 1: from a report by the Copenhagen School of Energy Infrastructure.

2668
02:14:17,960 --> 02:14:21,240
Speaker 1: In recent decades, large increases in demand for energy services

2669
02:14:21,280 --> 02:14:25,280
Speaker 1: have globally driven energy consumption. As a counterbalance, energy efficiency

2670
02:14:25,360 --> 02:14:28,240
Speaker 1: has become a key energy policy mechanism to tackle higher

2671
02:14:28,360 --> 02:14:31,680
Speaker 1: energy consumption and emissions, and countries and regions have adopted

2672
02:14:31,720 --> 02:14:35,120
Speaker 1: different targets and policies to achieve energy and environmental objectives.

2673
02:14:35,520 --> 02:14:37,760
Speaker 1: The main goals of these policies are to minimize the

2674
02:14:37,800 --> 02:14:40,880
Speaker 1: dependence on fossil fuels and mitigate local air pollution and

2675
02:14:41,000 --> 02:14:44,040
Speaker 1: g h G emissions. This has been particularly relevant for

2676
02:14:44,120 --> 02:14:47,120
Speaker 1: the energy intensive sectors. The development and deployment of more

2677
02:14:47,160 --> 02:14:50,880
Speaker 1: efficient technologies are, along with more technology management, the main

2678
02:14:51,040 --> 02:14:54,920
Speaker 1: channel to achieve these environmental and energy objectives. However, energy

2679
02:14:54,960 --> 02:14:57,560
Speaker 1: efficiency improvements can lead to changes in the demand for

2680
02:14:57,720 --> 02:15:02,440
Speaker 1: energy services, changes that offsets of the expected energy savings. Consequently,

2681
02:15:02,520 --> 02:15:06,440
Speaker 1: forecasts of energy consumption reductions may be overstated, as evidenced

2682
02:15:06,480 --> 02:15:09,080
Speaker 1: by the empirical literature. Rebound effects can be a non

2683
02:15:09,160 --> 02:15:13,120
Speaker 1: negligible issue. Therefore, ignoring them can imply an overestimation of

2684
02:15:13,200 --> 02:15:16,440
Speaker 1: the benefits coming from energy efficiency improvements. This can in

2685
02:15:16,520 --> 02:15:19,400
Speaker 1: turn lead to decisions such as the overallocation of public

2686
02:15:19,440 --> 02:15:23,440
Speaker 1: funds to ineffective environmental and energy policies. Policy Makers need

2687
02:15:23,520 --> 02:15:26,960
Speaker 1: to take rebound effects into account for air quality, energy security,

2688
02:15:27,000 --> 02:15:30,240
Speaker 1: and climate change policy reasons. A rebound effect different from

2689
02:15:30,360 --> 02:15:33,720
Speaker 1: zero implies that the expected proportional reductions and emissions from

2690
02:15:33,760 --> 02:15:37,680
Speaker 1: fuel efficiency improvements might not be achieved. Therefore, the policy

2691
02:15:37,720 --> 02:15:40,600
Speaker 1: goals to reach specific levels of emissions through fuel efficiency

2692
02:15:40,720 --> 02:15:44,360
Speaker 1: enhancements may need to be adjusted accordingly. Again, we have

2693
02:15:44,440 --> 02:15:47,320
Speaker 1: nothing against the idea of making more efficient devices. The

2694
02:15:47,400 --> 02:15:50,480
Speaker 1: point is that energy efficiency can't be pursued in a vacuum.

2695
02:15:50,720 --> 02:15:53,240
Speaker 1: It has to coincide with changes to a less extract

2696
02:15:53,320 --> 02:15:57,040
Speaker 1: of cancerous mindset regarding the Earth's resources and carrying capacity.

2697
02:15:57,480 --> 02:15:59,800
Speaker 1: Just telling someone you can drive more for less money,

2698
02:16:00,320 --> 02:16:02,400
Speaker 1: or you can afford to keep your TV on all

2699
02:16:02,440 --> 02:16:05,880
Speaker 1: the time doesn't really help anything. My fear is that

2700
02:16:06,000 --> 02:16:09,440
Speaker 1: governments and corporations the neoliberal leviathan, as we've come to

2701
02:16:09,520 --> 02:16:12,640
Speaker 1: call it on this show, will focus almost overwhelmingly on

2702
02:16:12,800 --> 02:16:16,320
Speaker 1: energy efficiency to maintain economic growth and obscure the overall

2703
02:16:16,440 --> 02:16:20,040
Speaker 1: lack of action on stopping carbon emissions. Think Joe Biden

2704
02:16:20,120 --> 02:16:23,360
Speaker 1: doing donuts in an electric jeep through such a lens

2705
02:16:23,440 --> 02:16:26,440
Speaker 1: as the Biden administration. Energy efficiency is a foil to

2706
02:16:26,520 --> 02:16:29,680
Speaker 1: climate change is a charade being used to keep relentless

2707
02:16:29,720 --> 02:16:32,560
Speaker 1: economic growth. Feud is a net good. It plays into

2708
02:16:32,600 --> 02:16:34,600
Speaker 1: the myth that will be able to mitigate, adapt, and

2709
02:16:34,680 --> 02:16:37,000
Speaker 1: survive the effects of climate change with little to no

2710
02:16:37,200 --> 02:16:39,960
Speaker 1: change to our current lifestyles. What we need to do

2711
02:16:40,200 --> 02:16:43,560
Speaker 1: is decouple human well being from energy consumption and consumption

2712
02:16:43,600 --> 02:16:47,200
Speaker 1: in general to effectively combat climate change. This needs to

2713
02:16:47,280 --> 02:16:50,440
Speaker 1: happen at such a scale that advocating for individual changes

2714
02:16:50,480 --> 02:16:53,240
Speaker 1: in lifestyle will never be enough, but that is still

2715
02:16:53,280 --> 02:16:55,960
Speaker 1: a significant part of the puzzle. The trick comes and

2716
02:16:56,000 --> 02:16:58,080
Speaker 1: getting people to accept the fact that their life will

2717
02:16:58,120 --> 02:17:00,640
Speaker 1: need to change without them telling them and buying this

2718
02:17:00,760 --> 02:17:02,760
Speaker 1: product instead of that product is how you do it.

2719
02:17:03,520 --> 02:17:06,320
Speaker 1: That said, populations of people can and do change their

2720
02:17:06,320 --> 02:17:10,360
Speaker 1: behaviors in pretty profound ways. In nineteen fifty, abortion was

2721
02:17:10,480 --> 02:17:13,120
Speaker 1: not at all an issue for the religious right. Resistance

2722
02:17:13,160 --> 02:17:16,160
Speaker 1: to abortion might make some Protestants distrust you because that

2723
02:17:16,280 --> 02:17:19,080
Speaker 1: was seen as a Catholic concern. Now abortion is the

2724
02:17:19,120 --> 02:17:22,360
Speaker 1: defining political issue of the ascendant right. Their promise to

2725
02:17:22,440 --> 02:17:25,120
Speaker 1: destroy it is the rock upon which their titanic power

2726
02:17:25,280 --> 02:17:28,720
Speaker 1: is based. In a less calamitous sense, since two thousand seven,

2727
02:17:28,800 --> 02:17:31,160
Speaker 1: we've gone from a time in which smartphones were expensive

2728
02:17:31,200 --> 02:17:33,640
Speaker 1: trash for rich people to buy, to today when they're

2729
02:17:33,640 --> 02:17:36,120
Speaker 1: expensive trash that every human being who can afford to

2730
02:17:36,240 --> 02:17:38,760
Speaker 1: has to carry at all times because they're so utterly

2731
02:17:38,840 --> 02:17:42,360
Speaker 1: integrated to our daily life. So yes, people can change.

2732
02:17:42,959 --> 02:17:45,400
Speaker 1: A bigger challenge, though, will be to change the mindset

2733
02:17:45,520 --> 02:17:49,200
Speaker 1: of industry, which is not entirely or even often driven

2734
02:17:49,280 --> 02:17:51,960
Speaker 1: by consumer demand. As we've seen with the release of

2735
02:17:52,040 --> 02:17:54,800
Speaker 1: papers proving Chevron and other oil and gas companies knew

2736
02:17:54,800 --> 02:17:57,680
Speaker 1: about and deliberately hid research on climate change for decades.

2737
02:17:58,080 --> 02:18:00,640
Speaker 1: Big capital will put its thumb on the scale every

2738
02:18:00,680 --> 02:18:03,320
Speaker 1: step of the way. In other words, if you come

2739
02:18:03,360 --> 02:18:06,840
Speaker 1: at the behemoth that is the integrated industrial economy, you'd

2740
02:18:06,879 --> 02:18:10,240
Speaker 1: best come correct. How do we do that? Well, if

2741
02:18:10,240 --> 02:18:12,880
Speaker 1: anybody really knew, they would have, you know, done it

2742
02:18:13,000 --> 02:18:16,400
Speaker 1: by now. The human infrastructure of extract of capitalism is

2743
02:18:16,480 --> 02:18:19,080
Speaker 1: deep and vast and tightly woven into the structure of

2744
02:18:19,200 --> 02:18:22,760
Speaker 1: every government with any real power. So, with the full

2745
02:18:22,879 --> 02:18:25,600
Speaker 1: understanding and admission that we aren't claiming to have solutions

2746
02:18:25,640 --> 02:18:28,560
Speaker 1: to that problem, let's talk about something that will at

2747
02:18:28,640 --> 02:18:31,480
Speaker 1: least be part of any real solution to the problem.

2748
02:18:31,879 --> 02:18:34,480
Speaker 1: D growth. This is a term will explain in more

2749
02:18:34,520 --> 02:18:37,080
Speaker 1: detail later, but we mean it's simply as a holistic

2750
02:18:37,120 --> 02:18:41,560
Speaker 1: approach to encouraging reduction and energy consumption and global environmental justice.

2751
02:18:42,240 --> 02:18:45,440
Speaker 1: A paper on the Jeevens paradox and the Link between Innovation,

2752
02:18:45,520 --> 02:18:49,279
Speaker 1: efficiency and sustainability for the Frontiers and Energy Research concluded

2753
02:18:49,360 --> 02:18:53,480
Speaker 1: quote the Jevens paradox and tales that sustainability problems cannot

2754
02:18:53,520 --> 02:18:57,000
Speaker 1: be solved by technological innovations alone. They must be solved

2755
02:18:57,040 --> 02:19:01,400
Speaker 1: through institutional and behavioral changes. While there are still differences

2756
02:19:01,440 --> 02:19:04,039
Speaker 1: of opinion about the scale every bound effects and ongoing

2757
02:19:04,120 --> 02:19:06,600
Speaker 1: arguments about the macro and micro and longer and shorter

2758
02:19:06,720 --> 02:19:10,279
Speaker 1: term consequences of efficiency, our interest in this topic today

2759
02:19:10,400 --> 02:19:12,879
Speaker 1: is driven by the goal of improving how we use

2760
02:19:13,040 --> 02:19:17,760
Speaker 1: energy rather than totally overhauling or abandoning efficiency. One example

2761
02:19:17,800 --> 02:19:20,400
Speaker 1: would be the current fight in Europe over smartphone chargers.

2762
02:19:20,800 --> 02:19:23,320
Speaker 1: Most of the rest of the smartphone industry worldwide has

2763
02:19:23,360 --> 02:19:26,360
Speaker 1: jumped onto USBC. Is the right kind of port for charging,

2764
02:19:26,440 --> 02:19:30,280
Speaker 1: etcetera with your device. Before this point, those of you

2765
02:19:30,360 --> 02:19:32,280
Speaker 1: have been using smartphones for a decade or we'll remember,

2766
02:19:32,400 --> 02:19:34,680
Speaker 1: there were tons of different charges and thus a tons

2767
02:19:34,680 --> 02:19:36,240
Speaker 1: of different waste. Every phone had to come with a

2768
02:19:36,320 --> 02:19:38,000
Speaker 1: new charger. A lot of them wound up in the

2769
02:19:38,040 --> 02:19:42,560
Speaker 1: trash that has been reduced by everyone jumping onto USBC.

2770
02:19:42,840 --> 02:19:45,560
Speaker 1: But Apple continues to use their own special charger, and

2771
02:19:45,600 --> 02:19:47,640
Speaker 1: now the EU was promising to make a law to

2772
02:19:47,800 --> 02:19:51,440
Speaker 1: mandate USBC for charging new phones in an attempt to

2773
02:19:51,480 --> 02:19:54,960
Speaker 1: reduce waste. This isn't again a bad thing, but if

2774
02:19:55,000 --> 02:19:58,760
Speaker 1: someone's really concerned with waste among the smartphone industry, planned

2775
02:19:58,760 --> 02:20:02,920
Speaker 1: obsolescence is the thing to go after. Now. Targeting planned

2776
02:20:02,920 --> 02:20:05,520
Speaker 1: obsolescence stopping it includes a number of things, and for

2777
02:20:05,640 --> 02:20:07,560
Speaker 1: one thing, you have to fight for the right to

2778
02:20:07,680 --> 02:20:10,840
Speaker 1: repair devices, which is something that a number of corporations,

2779
02:20:10,879 --> 02:20:13,000
Speaker 1: not just in the smartphone industry, have lobbied to in

2780
02:20:13,080 --> 02:20:17,480
Speaker 1: some cases make illegal. More than that, it's stopping somehow

2781
02:20:17,560 --> 02:20:20,200
Speaker 1: these companies from making the conscious decision to brick old

2782
02:20:20,280 --> 02:20:23,280
Speaker 1: technology to increase profits, and that aspect of it is

2783
02:20:23,360 --> 02:20:26,000
Speaker 1: the bigger enemy than even the right to repair. As

2784
02:20:26,080 --> 02:20:28,920
Speaker 1: electronic device has become common and more sectors of daily

2785
02:20:29,000 --> 02:20:31,760
Speaker 1: life via the Internet of Things, the overall share of

2786
02:20:31,840 --> 02:20:34,520
Speaker 1: global energy use that goes to making new versions of

2787
02:20:34,600 --> 02:20:37,400
Speaker 1: old products that could still be working but are designed

2788
02:20:37,440 --> 02:20:41,240
Speaker 1: to break is is really quite depressing. For one example

2789
02:20:41,280 --> 02:20:43,080
Speaker 1: of how large it must be, I haven't found any

2790
02:20:43,480 --> 02:20:46,680
Speaker 1: solid information on the total size of this industry things

2791
02:20:46,720 --> 02:20:48,879
Speaker 1: that you have to repeatedly re buy because they're meant

2792
02:20:48,920 --> 02:20:51,680
Speaker 1: to break, But the mobile phone industry and two thousand

2793
02:20:51,760 --> 02:20:54,920
Speaker 1: nineteen alone was four point six percent of global GDP,

2794
02:20:55,400 --> 02:20:58,920
Speaker 1: So that's close to five percent of global GDP just

2795
02:20:59,240 --> 02:21:01,440
Speaker 1: from making owns that are designed to break so you

2796
02:21:01,560 --> 02:21:04,080
Speaker 1: have to buy a new phone. This is an example

2797
02:21:04,120 --> 02:21:06,640
Speaker 1: of an area in which people's perspectives have to be changed.

2798
02:21:06,720 --> 02:21:09,120
Speaker 1: And I think actually that digital fatigue, the fact that

2799
02:21:09,160 --> 02:21:12,200
Speaker 1: we're also fucking exhausted with these devices these days, may

2800
02:21:12,280 --> 02:21:15,080
Speaker 1: provide somewhat of an inroad for convincing people that they

2801
02:21:15,160 --> 02:21:18,640
Speaker 1: need to buy new gadgets less often. But because these

2802
02:21:18,680 --> 02:21:21,959
Speaker 1: gadgets are so crucial to daily life, the industry actually

2803
02:21:22,040 --> 02:21:24,520
Speaker 1: also has to be forced to change. And again, rite

2804
02:21:24,560 --> 02:21:27,000
Speaker 1: repair is one part of this, but that doesn't stop

2805
02:21:27,040 --> 02:21:29,720
Speaker 1: Apple from just deciding to throttle their old devices whenever

2806
02:21:29,760 --> 02:21:31,680
Speaker 1: they need to add a new layer to the money pile.

2807
02:21:32,640 --> 02:21:34,960
Speaker 1: Our overall point with all this is that solutions to

2808
02:21:35,000 --> 02:21:37,360
Speaker 1: climate change have to be cultural and not just based

2809
02:21:37,440 --> 02:21:39,600
Speaker 1: in some version of will invent a better version and

2810
02:21:39,680 --> 02:21:42,640
Speaker 1: that will solve the problem. Hybrid gas burning cars and

2811
02:21:42,760 --> 02:21:46,119
Speaker 1: standardized charging chords are nibbling around the edges of the problem.

2812
02:21:46,640 --> 02:21:50,080
Speaker 1: Relying on technological advances pacifies us in the present, and

2813
02:21:50,120 --> 02:21:53,800
Speaker 1: it reinforces the need for certain types of human material codependence,

2814
02:21:54,120 --> 02:21:56,800
Speaker 1: and that kind of codependence leads to increased dependency and

2815
02:21:56,959 --> 02:21:59,680
Speaker 1: more extraction. By no means am I trying to say

2816
02:21:59,720 --> 02:22:02,200
Speaker 1: that innovation is bad. I love gadgets as much as

2817
02:22:02,200 --> 02:22:05,520
Speaker 1: the next person. Innovation also has the capacity to heavily

2818
02:22:05,600 --> 02:22:09,200
Speaker 1: decreased resource extraction. It just has to be tailored with

2819
02:22:09,320 --> 02:22:12,119
Speaker 1: something more than just will make this device more efficient

2820
02:22:12,160 --> 02:22:14,440
Speaker 1: so we can use it more or sell more of them.

2821
02:22:14,959 --> 02:22:18,200
Speaker 1: The capitalist mode of mass resource extraction and grind for

2822
02:22:18,320 --> 02:22:21,080
Speaker 1: efficiency are intertwined, and if we are to limit the

2823
02:22:21,120 --> 02:22:24,320
Speaker 1: most catastrophic effects of climate change. We as a culture

2824
02:22:24,400 --> 02:22:27,240
Speaker 1: need to rethink how we view efficiency and energy use.

2825
02:22:28,160 --> 02:22:30,720
Speaker 1: For the past few hundred years, economic growth has been

2826
02:22:30,760 --> 02:22:33,480
Speaker 1: the road that has led to our current ecological dilemma.

2827
02:22:33,840 --> 02:22:36,800
Speaker 1: The fantasy of switching over to nuclear and renewable energy

2828
02:22:36,879 --> 02:22:40,000
Speaker 1: with a perfectly efficient electric grid to just sidestep climate

2829
02:22:40,040 --> 02:22:43,600
Speaker 1: collapse is it's a fantasy. We missed our chance to

2830
02:22:43,720 --> 02:22:46,920
Speaker 1: do that. Even if we stop all carbon emissions right now,

2831
02:22:47,160 --> 02:22:50,000
Speaker 1: all of them, the carbon already in the atmosphere would

2832
02:22:50,000 --> 02:22:52,840
Speaker 1: push us past two degrees celsius of warming in about

2833
02:22:52,920 --> 02:22:56,800
Speaker 1: fifty years. So what besides carbon capture can we do

2834
02:22:56,920 --> 02:22:59,720
Speaker 1: about this? We as in both you, the regular listener,

2835
02:22:59,800 --> 02:23:02,720
Speaker 1: and the goals with power and real influence. Well. The

2836
02:23:02,760 --> 02:23:06,000
Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen International Panel and Climate Change Special WORKPORT

2837
02:23:06,080 --> 02:23:10,119
Speaker 1: indicated that in the absence of speculative negative emissions technologies,

2838
02:23:10,520 --> 02:23:13,480
Speaker 1: the only feasible way to remain within safe carbon budgets

2839
02:23:13,800 --> 02:23:16,880
Speaker 1: was for high incombinations to actively slow down the pace

2840
02:23:16,959 --> 02:23:21,240
Speaker 1: of material production and consumption. D growth is the planned

2841
02:23:21,280 --> 02:23:24,760
Speaker 1: reduction of energy use, corporate profits over production, and excess

2842
02:23:24,800 --> 02:23:27,960
Speaker 1: consumption designed to bring the economy back into balance with

2843
02:23:28,040 --> 02:23:30,840
Speaker 1: the living world in a way that reduces inequality while

2844
02:23:30,840 --> 02:23:34,480
Speaker 1: focusing on human and ecological well being. This isn't just

2845
02:23:34,560 --> 02:23:36,880
Speaker 1: some sort of utopian Marxist thinking, and in fact, a

2846
02:23:36,959 --> 02:23:39,560
Speaker 1: lot of Marxists have critiques of deep growth, and deep

2847
02:23:39,600 --> 02:23:41,920
Speaker 1: growth could be applied to a number of different economic

2848
02:23:42,000 --> 02:23:45,560
Speaker 1: and governmental systems. There are even some weirdo capitalist advocates

2849
02:23:45,600 --> 02:23:48,840
Speaker 1: of de growth. Discussion about solving climate change can get

2850
02:23:48,879 --> 02:23:51,840
Speaker 1: into uncomfortable eugenics e territory if you aren't careful, So

2851
02:23:51,959 --> 02:23:54,760
Speaker 1: I should emphasize here that d growth is primarily about

2852
02:23:55,040 --> 02:24:00,040
Speaker 1: already wealthy countries limiting their economic growth. When aggregated in

2853
02:24:00,200 --> 02:24:02,720
Speaker 1: terms of income, the richest half of the world, high

2854
02:24:02,760 --> 02:24:05,840
Speaker 1: in upper middle income countries, amid eighty six percent of

2855
02:24:05,920 --> 02:24:09,640
Speaker 1: global CO two emissions, the bottom half lower and middle

2856
02:24:09,680 --> 02:24:14,240
Speaker 1: income countries amid only fourteen percent. With very few exceptions,

2857
02:24:14,320 --> 02:24:17,160
Speaker 1: the richer than nation is, the more it emits. It's

2858
02:24:17,200 --> 02:24:19,920
Speaker 1: all part of the resource extraction infinite growth lie we

2859
02:24:20,000 --> 02:24:23,240
Speaker 1: tell ourselves to keep going. Wealth is so much more

2860
02:24:23,320 --> 02:24:26,680
Speaker 1: of a factor in emissions than population. North America is

2861
02:24:26,720 --> 02:24:29,240
Speaker 1: home to only five percent of the world population, but

2862
02:24:29,280 --> 02:24:32,480
Speaker 1: amids nearly eighteen percent of c O two. Asia is

2863
02:24:32,560 --> 02:24:35,080
Speaker 1: home to sixty percent of the world's population, but AMIDST

2864
02:24:35,120 --> 02:24:38,400
Speaker 1: just forty nine percent of CO two. Africa has sixteen

2865
02:24:38,440 --> 02:24:41,280
Speaker 1: percent of the population, but emids just four percent of

2866
02:24:41,320 --> 02:24:44,840
Speaker 1: its c O two. This is reflected in per capita emissions.

2867
02:24:45,120 --> 02:24:48,360
Speaker 1: The average North American AMIDST seventeen times more than the

2868
02:24:48,440 --> 02:24:52,280
Speaker 1: average African. This inequality in global emissions lies at the

2869
02:24:52,320 --> 02:24:55,120
Speaker 1: heart of why international agreement on climate change has and

2870
02:24:55,200 --> 02:24:58,320
Speaker 1: continues to be so contentious. The richest countries in the

2871
02:24:58,360 --> 02:25:00,680
Speaker 1: world are home to half the world pop relation and

2872
02:25:00,760 --> 02:25:03,360
Speaker 1: emit eighty six percent of c O two. We want

2873
02:25:03,400 --> 02:25:06,240
Speaker 1: global incomes and living standards, especially for those of the

2874
02:25:06,280 --> 02:25:09,000
Speaker 1: poorest half of the world, to rise. The only way

2875
02:25:09,080 --> 02:25:11,520
Speaker 1: to do that while limiting climate change is to shrink

2876
02:25:11,560 --> 02:25:15,800
Speaker 1: the emissions of high income countries. Even several billion additional

2877
02:25:15,879 --> 02:25:19,920
Speaker 1: people in low income nations would leave global emissions almost unchanged.

2878
02:25:20,240 --> 02:25:22,840
Speaker 1: Three or four billion poor individuals would only account for

2879
02:25:22,879 --> 02:25:25,240
Speaker 1: a few percent of global c O two. At the

2880
02:25:25,280 --> 02:25:28,280
Speaker 1: other end of the distribution, however, adding only one billion

2881
02:25:28,360 --> 02:25:30,959
Speaker 1: high income individuals to the wealthiest parts of the world

2882
02:25:31,120 --> 02:25:34,640
Speaker 1: would increase global emissions by almost a third. A programmer

2883
02:25:34,680 --> 02:25:36,520
Speaker 1: in the United States has a higher c O two

2884
02:25:36,560 --> 02:25:39,960
Speaker 1: footprint than fifty farmers in Uganda. A decent chunk of

2885
02:25:40,000 --> 02:25:42,680
Speaker 1: this is just due to meet consumption. Meet consumption per

2886
02:25:42,800 --> 02:25:46,120
Speaker 1: capita in the richest fifteen countries is seven fifty percent

2887
02:25:46,200 --> 02:25:49,520
Speaker 1: higher than in the poorest twenty four countries. Lowering the

2888
02:25:49,600 --> 02:25:53,320
Speaker 1: population of say Uruguay won't do much for emissions. This

2889
02:25:53,520 --> 02:25:55,720
Speaker 1: is not the case when you talk about wealthy nations.

2890
02:25:56,080 --> 02:25:58,360
Speaker 1: In fact, if you live and say the United States,

2891
02:25:58,600 --> 02:26:01,160
Speaker 1: possibly the biggest thing you was an individual could do

2892
02:26:01,240 --> 02:26:04,280
Speaker 1: to reduce emissions is to have fewer or no children.

2893
02:26:04,879 --> 02:26:08,560
Speaker 1: It's estimated that dedicated recycling curbs about point three metric

2894
02:26:08,600 --> 02:26:11,040
Speaker 1: tons of c O two emissions per year, while having

2895
02:26:11,120 --> 02:26:14,080
Speaker 1: one fewer child is equivalent to preventing over fifty eight

2896
02:26:14,160 --> 02:26:17,040
Speaker 1: tons of c O two emissions a year. Better sex, said,

2897
02:26:17,080 --> 02:26:19,920
Speaker 1: and free access to contraceptives could also go a shockingly

2898
02:26:20,040 --> 02:26:23,800
Speaker 1: long way to curbing individual emission in wealthy countries, these

2899
02:26:23,879 --> 02:26:26,320
Speaker 1: numbers are averaged across a whole nation, and just like

2900
02:26:26,480 --> 02:26:29,040
Speaker 1: the case in less wealthy countries, the impact on emissions

2901
02:26:29,080 --> 02:26:31,280
Speaker 1: by having one fewer kid will be far lesser if

2902
02:26:31,280 --> 02:26:33,120
Speaker 1: your middle class or poor than it would be if

2903
02:26:33,160 --> 02:26:36,080
Speaker 1: your upper middle class are rich, but of course, none

2904
02:26:36,080 --> 02:26:38,119
Speaker 1: of that is going to be enough if industrial production

2905
02:26:38,240 --> 02:26:41,400
Speaker 1: keeps chugging along and advising people not to have children,

2906
02:26:41,480 --> 02:26:44,400
Speaker 1: one of the singular driving motivations for human beings across

2907
02:26:44,600 --> 02:26:48,360
Speaker 1: history isn't exactly a vote getter of a proposition. D

2908
02:26:48,520 --> 02:26:50,640
Speaker 1: Growth is critical, but the question of how to get

2909
02:26:50,680 --> 02:26:53,360
Speaker 1: there is thorny as hell. There are a few easy answers.

2910
02:26:53,600 --> 02:26:56,640
Speaker 1: Abolishing planned obsolescence could be pretty easily pitched to the

2911
02:26:56,720 --> 02:26:59,240
Speaker 1: average person. Cutting down on the number of people who

2912
02:26:59,280 --> 02:27:01,520
Speaker 1: have to commute could have a significant impact on toxic

2913
02:27:01,600 --> 02:27:04,040
Speaker 1: car culture, and again you can sell that to people.

2914
02:27:04,520 --> 02:27:07,360
Speaker 1: The obvious solutions are good places to start, but they

2915
02:27:07,400 --> 02:27:10,320
Speaker 1: should be seen as opening incisions, meant to clear the

2916
02:27:10,360 --> 02:27:13,800
Speaker 1: way to make deeper, more expansive cuts and eventually Hugh

2917
02:27:13,879 --> 02:27:16,280
Speaker 1: Away at the cancer we've planted in the heart of

2918
02:27:16,360 --> 02:27:36,120
Speaker 1: our civilization. Uh, it's could it's happened? Could hear? Robert

2919
02:27:36,160 --> 02:27:40,240
Speaker 1: Evans the podcast that is now begun? Um, this is

2920
02:27:40,280 --> 02:27:43,800
Speaker 1: a show about how things are falling apart and occasionally

2921
02:27:43,840 --> 02:27:46,160
Speaker 1: how to hot to maybe deal with that, maybe you

2922
02:27:46,240 --> 02:27:48,119
Speaker 1: try to steer things in a better direction. We talk

2923
02:27:48,160 --> 02:27:50,600
Speaker 1: about a bunch of stuff today. We're gonna be talking

2924
02:27:50,640 --> 02:27:54,040
Speaker 1: about more supply line um um stuff. And and in

2925
02:27:54,200 --> 02:27:57,240
Speaker 1: order to kind of introduce this episode, we wanted to

2926
02:27:57,320 --> 02:28:01,800
Speaker 1: bring in Alexis, who posted a right on Twitter about

2927
02:28:01,840 --> 02:28:03,800
Speaker 1: some of their experiences in the industry in which they

2928
02:28:03,840 --> 02:28:05,840
Speaker 1: work that that we all found very interesting. And so

2929
02:28:05,920 --> 02:28:08,640
Speaker 1: we just wanted to bring Alexis on and uh and

2930
02:28:09,000 --> 02:28:11,440
Speaker 1: and first off, have you kind of go over what

2931
02:28:11,760 --> 02:28:13,959
Speaker 1: what you went over in that threat and then um

2932
02:28:14,280 --> 02:28:16,959
Speaker 1: kind of zero win and talk about that. So Alexis,

2933
02:28:17,040 --> 02:28:21,280
Speaker 1: welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. Um. Yeah,

2934
02:28:21,760 --> 02:28:23,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna let you take it from here and then

2935
02:28:23,400 --> 02:28:25,440
Speaker 1: we'll we'll drill in once you once you get through

2936
02:28:25,480 --> 02:28:27,760
Speaker 1: your your piece, all right, So I'm just going to

2937
02:28:27,840 --> 02:28:30,080
Speaker 1: go ahead and read the thread that I posted and

2938
02:28:30,160 --> 02:28:33,400
Speaker 1: then yeah, we'll go from there. Uh. So, labor shortage

2939
02:28:33,440 --> 02:28:37,119
Speaker 1: discourse time. I work for a food manufacturing company, specifically

2940
02:28:37,200 --> 02:28:41,240
Speaker 1: bottling and canning various beverages, and we are desperately understaffed.

2941
02:28:41,800 --> 02:28:44,560
Speaker 1: The wages are competitive, but they can't keep anyone on

2942
02:28:44,680 --> 02:28:47,920
Speaker 1: after they hire them. Why, because we're short on people.

2943
02:28:48,160 --> 02:28:50,720
Speaker 1: As soon as someone is trained, they start throwing massive

2944
02:28:50,720 --> 02:28:52,880
Speaker 1: amounts of mandatory over time on them to try and

2945
02:28:52,959 --> 02:28:55,039
Speaker 1: cover the missing pieces while they look for more people

2946
02:28:55,080 --> 02:28:58,160
Speaker 1: to hire in. Folks get burned out and quit. And

2947
02:28:58,320 --> 02:29:02,480
Speaker 1: this is where my hate of justin time manufacturing comes in. Obviously,

2948
02:29:02,520 --> 02:29:04,960
Speaker 1: in food manufacturing, you can't just stock a warehouse with

2949
02:29:05,000 --> 02:29:07,000
Speaker 1: stuff and let it sit for a year, but you

2950
02:29:07,040 --> 02:29:09,760
Speaker 1: can keep a couple of weeks worth stock rotating at

2951
02:29:09,800 --> 02:29:13,520
Speaker 1: all times if you devote the warehouse space, employees, et

2952
02:29:13,560 --> 02:29:15,959
Speaker 1: cetera to doing so. This would give you some flex

2953
02:29:16,040 --> 02:29:17,800
Speaker 1: time to train your new people without having to run

2954
02:29:17,879 --> 02:29:20,560
Speaker 1: everyone into the dirt. So, even with a place that

2955
02:29:20,760 --> 02:29:23,040
Speaker 1: is offering decent money and benefits, because this is a

2956
02:29:23,160 --> 02:29:25,920
Speaker 1: union shop, we can't keep people because we're making a

2957
02:29:25,959 --> 02:29:28,600
Speaker 1: conscious decision to only ever have one to two days

2958
02:29:28,640 --> 02:29:32,000
Speaker 1: of stock on hand to increase profits. Meanwhile, thanks to

2959
02:29:32,200 --> 02:29:34,760
Speaker 1: lean manufacturing, we don't keep a ton of spare parts

2960
02:29:34,800 --> 02:29:37,720
Speaker 1: for our equipment on hand. Thanks to the supply chain

2961
02:29:37,840 --> 02:29:40,560
Speaker 1: just disruption, We've got packaging equipment that's been waiting on

2962
02:29:40,600 --> 02:29:43,920
Speaker 1: replacement parts for six months, which further fox our productivity

2963
02:29:44,000 --> 02:29:47,160
Speaker 1: doomed to downtime, which makes the company's schedule even more

2964
02:29:47,280 --> 02:29:49,279
Speaker 1: overtime to try and make up for the lost cases

2965
02:29:49,320 --> 02:29:52,440
Speaker 1: from equipment downtime, which burns out more employees, which puts

2966
02:29:52,480 --> 02:29:55,199
Speaker 1: us in an even deeper labor hole. I've been warning

2967
02:29:55,200 --> 02:29:57,039
Speaker 1: about justin time being a time bomb in the making

2968
02:29:57,080 --> 02:30:00,760
Speaker 1: for over a decade now. When it works perfectly, you're fine.

2969
02:30:01,160 --> 02:30:04,280
Speaker 1: A single interruption causes cascade effects. And since everyone has

2970
02:30:04,280 --> 02:30:06,520
Speaker 1: been doing the just in time thing, there's zero slack

2971
02:30:06,680 --> 02:30:10,199
Speaker 1: anywhere in the system. Grocery stores don't have any extrasoda

2972
02:30:10,240 --> 02:30:13,480
Speaker 1: in the back, they get behind demand builds up. Distribution

2973
02:30:13,520 --> 02:30:17,000
Speaker 1: doesn't have any pallets in the warehouse what warehouse, so

2974
02:30:17,080 --> 02:30:20,320
Speaker 1: they can't answer the surgeon demand from grocery stores. Manufacturing

2975
02:30:20,360 --> 02:30:22,400
Speaker 1: doesn't have spare parts for aging equipment, so we can't

2976
02:30:22,400 --> 02:30:25,640
Speaker 1: boost production. Spare parts makers don't have stock build up,

2977
02:30:25,720 --> 02:30:29,320
Speaker 1: so on and on it goes. The actual approximate cause

2978
02:30:29,360 --> 02:30:32,760
Speaker 1: of this is deregulation of capitalism that is incentivized quarterly

2979
02:30:32,840 --> 02:30:35,880
Speaker 1: profits and made long term thinking anathema to CEOs. But

2980
02:30:36,000 --> 02:30:39,200
Speaker 1: share conservatives blame California for not letting old trucks offload

2981
02:30:39,240 --> 02:30:42,720
Speaker 1: at the ports. That's it, and that's that's the essence

2982
02:30:42,800 --> 02:30:47,200
Speaker 1: of my thread. I then plug my podcast at the end. Yeah,

2983
02:30:47,400 --> 02:30:49,960
Speaker 1: so I wanted to. I'm curious as to kind of like,

2984
02:30:51,160 --> 02:30:57,000
Speaker 1: uh to what I'm trying to understand, Like what the

2985
02:30:57,120 --> 02:30:59,760
Speaker 1: solution is. Like we've talked a bit about Okay, justin

2986
02:30:59,800 --> 02:31:04,000
Speaker 1: tie manufacturing is is problematic for a lot of reasons. Um,

2987
02:31:04,160 --> 02:31:06,879
Speaker 1: keeping more like on the shelves is going to allow

2988
02:31:06,920 --> 02:31:08,720
Speaker 1: you to avoid these crunches, and it's going to like

2989
02:31:08,840 --> 02:31:12,240
Speaker 1: make supply line issues like the ones we've experiencing since

2990
02:31:12,280 --> 02:31:15,959
Speaker 1: the start of the COVID pandemic less severe and less common. Um,

2991
02:31:16,320 --> 02:31:18,200
Speaker 1: But how do you actually how do you actually make

2992
02:31:18,240 --> 02:31:20,640
Speaker 1: that happen? Because I guess the traditional free market thing

2993
02:31:20,720 --> 02:31:22,880
Speaker 1: is that like, well, because this has been such a

2994
02:31:22,959 --> 02:31:26,640
Speaker 1: problem for companies, um, you know, they'll naturally change the

2995
02:31:26,760 --> 02:31:29,240
Speaker 1: system in order to avoid this in the future. I

2996
02:31:29,320 --> 02:31:33,880
Speaker 1: don't feel like that's likely to happen. Um, And I'm wondering,

2997
02:31:34,000 --> 02:31:36,160
Speaker 1: like what do we uh what what what do you

2998
02:31:36,240 --> 02:31:39,360
Speaker 1: think is the way forward here? Well, because some of

2999
02:31:39,400 --> 02:31:42,280
Speaker 1: the problem is right now, like most most companies, you

3000
02:31:42,320 --> 02:31:45,040
Speaker 1: will pay taxes on stuff that you have stored in

3001
02:31:45,120 --> 02:31:49,080
Speaker 1: a warehouse things like that. UM, So no company is

3002
02:31:49,120 --> 02:31:52,920
Speaker 1: going to voluntarily lower their profit margins if the other

3003
02:31:52,959 --> 02:31:56,560
Speaker 1: companies don't do it themselves as well. So really there's

3004
02:31:56,600 --> 02:31:58,880
Speaker 1: going to have to be some sort of forcing of

3005
02:31:59,120 --> 02:32:03,560
Speaker 1: companies to uh have that on hand. And I don't

3006
02:32:03,640 --> 02:32:06,600
Speaker 1: see just being able to write a law that says, oh, well,

3007
02:32:06,720 --> 02:32:09,240
Speaker 1: you're required to have this much backstock on hand, as

3008
02:32:09,320 --> 02:32:14,120
Speaker 1: as being a functional way to work. And really, as

3009
02:32:14,160 --> 02:32:16,360
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know, Robert, I know you're well aware,

3010
02:32:16,959 --> 02:32:20,680
Speaker 1: the capitalism itself is kind of the problem. But as

3011
02:32:20,760 --> 02:32:25,920
Speaker 1: far as I guess, a solution to this sort of thing, um,

3012
02:32:26,320 --> 02:32:30,879
Speaker 1: you would have to disincentivize the quarterly profits above all

3013
02:32:31,080 --> 02:32:35,240
Speaker 1: in order to force companies back into long term thinking. Now,

3014
02:32:35,640 --> 02:32:41,000
Speaker 1: from a purely like mechanical standpoint, um, I guess if

3015
02:32:41,120 --> 02:32:47,039
Speaker 1: you if you did something to incentivize companies having backstock

3016
02:32:47,160 --> 02:32:51,320
Speaker 1: or flex stock on on hand, that might help. But um,

3017
02:32:51,680 --> 02:32:53,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just I'm just a cog in the

3018
02:32:53,560 --> 02:32:57,039
Speaker 1: machine getting ground up. So as far as like big solutions,

3019
02:32:57,200 --> 02:33:00,240
Speaker 1: that's I mean. I've been looking at it every since

3020
02:33:00,280 --> 02:33:02,680
Speaker 1: I worked in a freaking casket factory and we started

3021
02:33:02,720 --> 02:33:05,680
Speaker 1: doing just in time there, and just every time that

3022
02:33:05,800 --> 02:33:08,480
Speaker 1: I've been in a place, a manufacturing place and seen

3023
02:33:08,560 --> 02:33:10,640
Speaker 1: it happen, I'm just like, oh, this is gonna go wrong,

3024
02:33:11,360 --> 02:33:14,240
Speaker 1: because you can't. You can do just in time if

3025
02:33:14,320 --> 02:33:17,560
Speaker 1: all of your suppliers are local, but having it stretched

3026
02:33:17,560 --> 02:33:20,840
Speaker 1: across the global supply chain, it just it it's inevitably

3027
02:33:20,879 --> 02:33:24,879
Speaker 1: going to collapse in on itself. I'm sorry that I'm

3028
02:33:24,879 --> 02:33:27,320
Speaker 1: not more helpful. No, no, but I mean this is

3029
02:33:27,520 --> 02:33:29,720
Speaker 1: this is like the problem because there's a lot of

3030
02:33:29,800 --> 02:33:32,360
Speaker 1: reasons why the supply chain is global. Some of them

3031
02:33:32,400 --> 02:33:35,040
Speaker 1: are like labor related reasons, some of them are cost cunning,

3032
02:33:35,080 --> 02:33:38,560
Speaker 1: some of them are just like pure pragmatism. Um. But

3033
02:33:38,720 --> 02:33:42,080
Speaker 1: it's trying to like I I don't I feel like

3034
02:33:42,360 --> 02:33:44,000
Speaker 1: it's it's one thing to say, like, well, part of

3035
02:33:44,040 --> 02:33:46,360
Speaker 1: the problem is that like all of these different pieces

3036
02:33:46,400 --> 02:33:48,960
Speaker 1: come from different countries, um. And there's a number of

3037
02:33:49,000 --> 02:33:52,280
Speaker 1: shady reasons for aspects of that, UM. But it makes

3038
02:33:52,440 --> 02:33:54,840
Speaker 1: for greater problems when there's a piline shortage and then

3039
02:33:54,840 --> 02:33:56,600
Speaker 1: like okay, well what are we what are we gonna?

3040
02:33:56,879 --> 02:33:59,880
Speaker 1: Are you suggesting that we make everything domestically because I

3041
02:34:00,200 --> 02:34:04,720
Speaker 1: don't feel like that's a realistic solution. Um. Yeah. And

3042
02:34:04,840 --> 02:34:07,040
Speaker 1: it's like it's just it's I'm trying to get a

3043
02:34:07,120 --> 02:34:10,240
Speaker 1: handle on there's a couple of angles on this there's

3044
02:34:10,280 --> 02:34:12,960
Speaker 1: there's what we think is going to happen, um, And

3045
02:34:13,040 --> 02:34:14,840
Speaker 1: then there's a question of like, is there a way

3046
02:34:14,879 --> 02:34:18,119
Speaker 1: that the system as it exists could make this whole

3047
02:34:18,160 --> 02:34:20,320
Speaker 1: thing less vulnerable? And and a lot of ways that's

3048
02:34:20,320 --> 02:34:22,320
Speaker 1: going to be separate from the question of what would

3049
02:34:22,320 --> 02:34:24,440
Speaker 1: be better for everyone to happen, because a lot of

3050
02:34:24,480 --> 02:34:26,000
Speaker 1: what would be better for everyone to happen is a

3051
02:34:26,040 --> 02:34:28,880
Speaker 1: white A significant chunk of these things that we have

3052
02:34:29,040 --> 02:34:31,600
Speaker 1: constantly stocked on the shelves are no longer parts of

3053
02:34:31,640 --> 02:34:34,240
Speaker 1: our life, right. Um, there's a lot of things that

3054
02:34:34,320 --> 02:34:36,240
Speaker 1: are made that we do not need and that are

3055
02:34:36,680 --> 02:34:38,880
Speaker 1: there's an environmental cost and a show social cost and

3056
02:34:38,959 --> 02:34:43,560
Speaker 1: YadA YadA, YadA um. But I guess first I'm kind

3057
02:34:43,560 --> 02:34:45,960
Speaker 1: of curious to drilling in, like how realistic do you

3058
02:34:46,040 --> 02:34:48,160
Speaker 1: think it is that the system as it exists is

3059
02:34:48,240 --> 02:34:51,120
Speaker 1: going to like mitigate this and come up with better

3060
02:34:51,200 --> 02:34:54,600
Speaker 1: ways to to do this that render us less vulnerable

3061
02:34:54,640 --> 02:34:57,680
Speaker 1: to the supply crunches? Like is there I don't see

3062
02:34:57,680 --> 02:35:00,440
Speaker 1: a great financial incentive in it for them yet, um,

3063
02:35:00,520 --> 02:35:03,200
Speaker 1: because they don't seem to be hurting, right, Like that's

3064
02:35:03,600 --> 02:35:07,360
Speaker 1: that's the thing? Well actually, and and again, please keep

3065
02:35:07,400 --> 02:35:10,200
Speaker 1: in mind this is limited anecdotal evidence. Yeah, because it's

3066
02:35:10,240 --> 02:35:12,400
Speaker 1: gonna be definitely John Deer, I know, was making record

3067
02:35:12,440 --> 02:35:16,120
Speaker 1: profits before all the this union stuff happened. But like,

3068
02:35:16,240 --> 02:35:19,920
Speaker 1: that's not everyone, right. So again, I work for a

3069
02:35:19,959 --> 02:35:23,720
Speaker 1: soda manufacturer. So every time you're in you know, enjoying

3070
02:35:23,920 --> 02:35:29,119
Speaker 1: your your Schmetzy Schmola or your or your Schmago whatever whatever,

3071
02:35:29,720 --> 02:35:32,040
Speaker 1: I'm not going to explain which company I work for

3072
02:35:32,040 --> 02:35:35,160
Speaker 1: because I don't want to get in trouble um. And

3073
02:35:35,320 --> 02:35:38,360
Speaker 1: we're we're actually a captive bottler, which means that it's

3074
02:35:38,360 --> 02:35:42,080
Speaker 1: a separate company, but we work for the big soda corporation.

3075
02:35:42,480 --> 02:35:46,039
Speaker 1: I think that in certain instances those things will change, because,

3076
02:35:46,120 --> 02:35:49,480
Speaker 1: for example, just last week, we had one of our

3077
02:35:49,560 --> 02:35:53,360
Speaker 1: four lines go down of our production capacity went down

3078
02:35:53,800 --> 02:35:56,520
Speaker 1: because we had a motor burnout on the rollers that

3079
02:35:56,560 --> 02:35:58,360
Speaker 1: would move a full palette out to be picked up

3080
02:35:58,360 --> 02:36:03,279
Speaker 1: by a forklift, and there was no replacement motor in stock,

3081
02:36:03,920 --> 02:36:07,720
Speaker 1: and so we had I think forty eight hours of

3082
02:36:07,800 --> 02:36:11,320
Speaker 1: downtime on this. Now, all the way up at the

3083
02:36:11,360 --> 02:36:14,279
Speaker 1: top the company executive, you know, we're one of thirty

3084
02:36:14,320 --> 02:36:18,039
Speaker 1: some plants. They don't care about why it was down,

3085
02:36:18,200 --> 02:36:21,959
Speaker 1: just that it was down. So in our position here, um,

3086
02:36:22,480 --> 02:36:24,400
Speaker 1: the people a little higher up the food chain than

3087
02:36:24,480 --> 02:36:27,520
Speaker 1: me are insisting like, hey, we've been after you guys

3088
02:36:27,560 --> 02:36:30,040
Speaker 1: for months that we need spares like this. And I

3089
02:36:30,160 --> 02:36:32,640
Speaker 1: think that as that sort of stuff happens, as it

3090
02:36:33,440 --> 02:36:37,800
Speaker 1: cuts into potential future profits, you know, it's not dropping

3091
02:36:37,840 --> 02:36:39,879
Speaker 1: their profits, but it's keeping them from being even higher,

3092
02:36:39,959 --> 02:36:43,280
Speaker 1: maybe certain certain companies are going to be like, Okay,

3093
02:36:43,400 --> 02:36:46,080
Speaker 1: maybe we do need a couple more spares on the shelves.

3094
02:36:46,760 --> 02:36:48,840
Speaker 1: As far as on the production side of it, I

3095
02:36:48,879 --> 02:36:51,320
Speaker 1: don't see that happening. I think we're still going to

3096
02:36:51,400 --> 02:36:54,920
Speaker 1: be shipping out palletts of you know, pallets of corn

3097
02:36:55,040 --> 02:36:59,600
Speaker 1: syrup infected carbonated water as fast as we can make them,

3098
02:37:00,560 --> 02:37:02,959
Speaker 1: which you and you were talking about the environmental costs,

3099
02:37:03,000 --> 02:37:04,640
Speaker 1: like you do not want to know how much water

3100
02:37:04,800 --> 02:37:07,400
Speaker 1: it takes to make a single leader of soda. You

3101
02:37:07,480 --> 02:37:13,280
Speaker 1: really don't. Um. But on this on the production, like

3102
02:37:13,680 --> 02:37:16,360
Speaker 1: input side, I think that companies are going to start

3103
02:37:16,400 --> 02:37:19,920
Speaker 1: stocking spare parts because it has been and I still

3104
02:37:20,000 --> 02:37:22,000
Speaker 1: have friends who work for other companies that I used

3105
02:37:22,040 --> 02:37:25,640
Speaker 1: to work for. It has been all throughout the system.

3106
02:37:25,720 --> 02:37:29,200
Speaker 1: And I live in the Midwest. Every company is going

3107
02:37:29,280 --> 02:37:32,000
Speaker 1: through this where they're having huge amounts of downtime because

3108
02:37:32,680 --> 02:37:36,400
Speaker 1: they things as small as a gasket or an O

3109
02:37:36,640 --> 02:37:39,879
Speaker 1: ring are not on the shelf, and they're finally companies

3110
02:37:39,920 --> 02:37:42,040
Speaker 1: are finally going to listen to what their maintenance people

3111
02:37:42,080 --> 02:37:45,560
Speaker 1: have been screaming at them, that we can't just stagger

3112
02:37:45,600 --> 02:37:48,160
Speaker 1: along and then oh, well it's next day delivery. Yeah,

3113
02:37:48,200 --> 02:37:49,959
Speaker 1: and then you freak out that this line was down

3114
02:37:50,040 --> 02:37:52,600
Speaker 1: for twenty four hours now that it's not even next

3115
02:37:52,680 --> 02:37:54,960
Speaker 1: day delivery, it's next week delivery. I think that side

3116
02:37:55,000 --> 02:37:57,120
Speaker 1: of it they're going to probably try and fix. But

3117
02:37:57,440 --> 02:38:02,240
Speaker 1: the other side, shipping to the consumer, I really don't

3118
02:38:02,280 --> 02:38:04,840
Speaker 1: see that they're going to change that. Yeah, I mean

3119
02:38:04,920 --> 02:38:08,680
Speaker 1: that makes that makes sense, and I we are you're

3120
02:38:08,760 --> 02:38:11,760
Speaker 1: kind of lad thinking about this inevitably to like two conclusions.

3121
02:38:11,840 --> 02:38:15,120
Speaker 1: One of them is that I have my I'm sure

3122
02:38:15,400 --> 02:38:18,480
Speaker 1: parts of this the system will adapt, as it already

3123
02:38:18,560 --> 02:38:20,720
Speaker 1: has been in fact, which is why I, like you

3124
02:38:20,800 --> 02:38:23,360
Speaker 1: haven't seen toilet paper run out as bad as it

3125
02:38:23,440 --> 02:38:25,320
Speaker 1: did at the start of the pandemic. Again, right, there

3126
02:38:25,360 --> 02:38:28,360
Speaker 1: is a degree to which the system is capable of adjustment,

3127
02:38:28,480 --> 02:38:32,840
Speaker 1: but kind of in a larger sense. Um, this is

3128
02:38:34,200 --> 02:38:36,200
Speaker 1: number one. I'm kind of left with the feeling that

3129
02:38:36,480 --> 02:38:39,520
Speaker 1: because of the way the system was set up and

3130
02:38:39,600 --> 02:38:42,480
Speaker 1: the fact that it was disrupted so severely, it's kind

3131
02:38:42,520 --> 02:38:45,520
Speaker 1: of impossible to get a percent back on track, especially

3132
02:38:45,600 --> 02:38:48,320
Speaker 1: considering the disruptions are going to continue, not just waves

3133
02:38:48,360 --> 02:38:51,800
Speaker 1: of COVID, but you know, in natural disasters and whatnot,

3134
02:38:51,959 --> 02:38:55,880
Speaker 1: shortages of things like truck drivers, Like these different little

3135
02:38:55,959 --> 02:38:58,000
Speaker 1: hits are going to keep coming, and I just don't

3136
02:38:58,040 --> 02:39:01,400
Speaker 1: know that wherever going to like catch everywhere enough that

3137
02:39:02,480 --> 02:39:05,320
Speaker 1: like shortages of some sort aren't an aspect of our

3138
02:39:05,400 --> 02:39:07,200
Speaker 1: lives kind of forever. And this is one of those

3139
02:39:07,280 --> 02:39:09,080
Speaker 1: things that if you've spent a lot of time outside

3140
02:39:09,080 --> 02:39:10,959
Speaker 1: of the United States, that's something a lot of people

3141
02:39:11,040 --> 02:39:13,040
Speaker 1: have been dealing with for years. It's just not something

3142
02:39:13,080 --> 02:39:15,960
Speaker 1: Americans are used to dealing with. And I think I

3143
02:39:16,080 --> 02:39:18,600
Speaker 1: kind of feel like that's just where it is now.

3144
02:39:18,760 --> 02:39:22,560
Speaker 1: Like I don't feel like every aspect of our our

3145
02:39:22,760 --> 02:39:25,280
Speaker 1: production and consumption system is going to get back where

3146
02:39:25,280 --> 02:39:28,040
Speaker 1: it to where it was February. I think maybe that's

3147
02:39:28,080 --> 02:39:31,959
Speaker 1: never happening again. No, absolutely, it will not ever happen.

3148
02:39:33,400 --> 02:39:35,960
Speaker 1: You were saying earlier that you know, there's some practical

3149
02:39:36,040 --> 02:39:38,080
Speaker 1: reasons for the global supply chain. Like one of the

3150
02:39:38,160 --> 02:39:40,760
Speaker 1: things that we've had such hard time getting in is

3151
02:39:40,840 --> 02:39:45,160
Speaker 1: any of our concentrates that contain real vanilla. Obviously, we

3152
02:39:45,320 --> 02:39:48,080
Speaker 1: can't grow vanilla in the United States. Yeah, that's the

3153
02:39:48,160 --> 02:39:50,200
Speaker 1: thing you have to I mean, that's part of why

3154
02:39:50,240 --> 02:39:53,320
Speaker 1: colonialism exists, right, you need to go get vanilla. Yeah.

3155
02:39:54,200 --> 02:39:57,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, So, like there are certain things that are

3156
02:39:57,160 --> 02:40:00,640
Speaker 1: going to be stay have to stay globe if we're

3157
02:40:00,680 --> 02:40:03,080
Speaker 1: going to continue to make the things that we make.

3158
02:40:03,920 --> 02:40:07,480
Speaker 1: And just from my side of it, being able to see, oh, well,

3159
02:40:07,520 --> 02:40:10,200
Speaker 1: why can't we get this concentrate in, Oh because it

3160
02:40:10,240 --> 02:40:12,480
Speaker 1: has vanilla as an ingredient, and there's been a bunch

3161
02:40:12,520 --> 02:40:14,800
Speaker 1: of draughts and ship and so vanilla is in a crunch,

3162
02:40:14,879 --> 02:40:17,680
Speaker 1: you know that sort of thing. So I just, um,

3163
02:40:18,480 --> 02:40:21,160
Speaker 1: you're right in that. Yeah, we're going to have shortages.

3164
02:40:21,280 --> 02:40:24,360
Speaker 1: There's it's you know, and it's not just the mechanical

3165
02:40:24,440 --> 02:40:26,600
Speaker 1: side on ours. It's like we can't get cans in,

3166
02:40:26,800 --> 02:40:29,480
Speaker 1: we can't get concentrated in, we can't you know, whatever

3167
02:40:29,600 --> 02:40:31,360
Speaker 1: it is that we can't get in is going to

3168
02:40:31,400 --> 02:40:34,440
Speaker 1: slow us down and demand will build up. I did

3169
02:40:34,520 --> 02:40:36,440
Speaker 1: have somebody in that thread respond and say, I don't

3170
02:40:36,440 --> 02:40:39,280
Speaker 1: see how demand for soda will build up. And I'm like, now,

3171
02:40:39,360 --> 02:40:41,760
Speaker 1: I have a friend who's like a diet Dr. Pepper fiend,

3172
02:40:41,800 --> 02:40:43,760
Speaker 1: and as soon as diet Dr. Pepper shows up, now

3173
02:40:43,840 --> 02:40:47,880
Speaker 1: she buys like packs. Demand will absolutely build up for

3174
02:40:47,920 --> 02:40:50,760
Speaker 1: stuff when people feel like they're being deprived of something

3175
02:40:51,440 --> 02:40:53,680
Speaker 1: that when it becomes available, they are going to hoard

3176
02:40:53,720 --> 02:40:58,400
Speaker 1: it as best they can. Yeah. And that's again with soda,

3177
02:40:58,879 --> 02:41:00,800
Speaker 1: just kind of an annoyance. And so although that can

3178
02:41:01,560 --> 02:41:06,120
Speaker 1: because individual people can react in extreme ways, can snowball.

3179
02:41:06,600 --> 02:41:08,400
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be surprised if one of these days

3180
02:41:08,440 --> 02:41:10,879
Speaker 1: we have somebody shoot up a fucking grocery store because

3181
02:41:10,920 --> 02:41:15,240
Speaker 1: they're whatever was out. Um. But that's also not a necessity.

3182
02:41:15,360 --> 02:41:19,560
Speaker 1: And I think that like the concern is that especially

3183
02:41:19,600 --> 02:41:21,520
Speaker 1: when you you look at stuff, like you know, there's

3184
02:41:21,520 --> 02:41:23,400
Speaker 1: a couple of states that had like their wheat harvests

3185
02:41:23,400 --> 02:41:25,520
Speaker 1: and corn harvest that were like half or less than

3186
02:41:25,600 --> 02:41:27,880
Speaker 1: half of normal in big chunks of a rack. It

3187
02:41:28,000 --> 02:41:31,800
Speaker 1: was like down by I think like seventy um. Like

3188
02:41:31,920 --> 02:41:36,920
Speaker 1: these massive shortages of growing basic food stuffs. Um, And

3189
02:41:37,080 --> 02:41:39,960
Speaker 1: that's all that's all tight into this, Like it's not

3190
02:41:40,080 --> 02:41:42,160
Speaker 1: the same business that you're on, but it's all tied

3191
02:41:42,200 --> 02:41:44,400
Speaker 1: into aspects of this, and it's all tied into like

3192
02:41:44,800 --> 02:41:46,760
Speaker 1: a lot of our ability to get that food out

3193
02:41:46,920 --> 02:41:50,240
Speaker 1: of the field is reliant upon different kinds of mechanical

3194
02:41:50,320 --> 02:41:53,200
Speaker 1: harvesting equipment. The materials to which to like fix and

3195
02:41:53,280 --> 02:41:56,360
Speaker 1: replace it are often like caught up in this whole

3196
02:41:56,440 --> 02:41:58,320
Speaker 1: just in time problem because they don't make enough of

3197
02:41:58,360 --> 02:42:00,120
Speaker 1: them and sometimes they don't have them in store is

3198
02:42:00,160 --> 02:42:02,280
Speaker 1: and then there's like a strike at John Deer and

3199
02:42:02,360 --> 02:42:04,160
Speaker 1: so more aren't getting made and so there's not what

3200
02:42:04,280 --> 02:42:06,720
Speaker 1: you need to repair the equipment in time to get

3201
02:42:06,760 --> 02:42:08,840
Speaker 1: stuff out of the field everywhere, and in a year

3202
02:42:08,879 --> 02:42:10,760
Speaker 1: when you already have a reduction of harvests, like that

3203
02:42:10,879 --> 02:42:13,920
Speaker 1: cuts down on it further. Um Like I I think,

3204
02:42:14,440 --> 02:42:18,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's this. There's always a couple

3205
02:42:18,040 --> 02:42:19,720
Speaker 1: of things to look at, which is like number one,

3206
02:42:19,879 --> 02:42:22,920
Speaker 1: as we've talked about, like how is the system going

3207
02:42:23,000 --> 02:42:24,920
Speaker 1: to try to handle this? What ways are they going

3208
02:42:24,959 --> 02:42:26,440
Speaker 1: to be successful, what ways are they going to fail?

3209
02:42:26,720 --> 02:42:29,240
Speaker 1: What things are you going to have to endure? And

3210
02:42:29,520 --> 02:42:31,160
Speaker 1: what things I think what I want to talk about

3211
02:42:31,200 --> 02:42:33,480
Speaker 1: next is like what things do we need to change, uh,

3212
02:42:34,400 --> 02:42:37,680
Speaker 1: in order to like, as communities be more resilient to

3213
02:42:37,760 --> 02:42:39,800
Speaker 1: this stuff, which you know, has less to do with soda,

3214
02:42:39,879 --> 02:42:41,840
Speaker 1: which again is not a necessity, but more to do

3215
02:42:41,959 --> 02:42:46,600
Speaker 1: with figuring out how to anticipate and endure supply line disruptions.

3216
02:42:47,959 --> 02:42:51,800
Speaker 1: Right absolutely. And and while I'm currently in soda, I

3217
02:42:51,920 --> 02:42:54,600
Speaker 1: have been in everything from automotive too, I think as

3218
02:42:55,240 --> 02:42:58,840
Speaker 1: or casket manufacturer. So you know, when I can go

3219
02:42:58,959 --> 02:43:02,560
Speaker 1: through a casket a week, you know, especially when you're

3220
02:43:02,640 --> 02:43:06,600
Speaker 1: driving your well, yeah, when I'm drunk a boy right

3221
02:43:06,680 --> 02:43:08,800
Speaker 1: right through a trailer park, I mean you're you're I

3222
02:43:08,879 --> 02:43:10,720
Speaker 1: mean your casket order has got to be through the roof.

3223
02:43:11,080 --> 02:43:14,280
Speaker 1: It is it is a lot a lot of people. Yeah,

3224
02:43:14,480 --> 02:43:18,280
Speaker 1: I mean I I do actually wonder how fuck um,

3225
02:43:18,400 --> 02:43:20,840
Speaker 1: I mean like, I do actually wonder how much like

3226
02:43:20,920 --> 02:43:23,800
Speaker 1: the casket industry and something that has been affected by

3227
02:43:23,840 --> 02:43:26,640
Speaker 1: the by like by the pandemic with the you know,

3228
02:43:26,800 --> 02:43:30,040
Speaker 1: an influx of dead people, and how that's how how

3229
02:43:30,120 --> 02:43:31,959
Speaker 1: that's affective thinks that That's something I've been wondering about,

3230
02:43:31,959 --> 02:43:34,119
Speaker 1: But I have not actually spent a time looking into

3231
02:43:34,800 --> 02:43:37,800
Speaker 1: I can't speak to the pandemic specifically. I quit. I

3232
02:43:38,080 --> 02:43:40,440
Speaker 1: quit the casket industry in two thousand and eight, but

3233
02:43:40,760 --> 02:43:44,240
Speaker 1: I do recall my boss, the owner at the time,

3234
02:43:44,320 --> 02:43:46,959
Speaker 1: being very very upset that Hurricane Katrina had a lower

3235
02:43:47,080 --> 02:43:51,200
Speaker 1: death toll than he anticipated because she had over ordered

3236
02:43:51,240 --> 02:43:53,600
Speaker 1: the sheet metal to make the caskets, and he was

3237
02:43:53,720 --> 02:43:56,120
Speaker 1: very piste off about having all that extra stock because

3238
02:43:56,160 --> 02:44:02,040
Speaker 1: they were to society. Yes, yeah, that's that's good to hear. Yeah, great.

3239
02:44:02,200 --> 02:44:04,920
Speaker 1: He was in a bad mood for like a month

3240
02:44:05,000 --> 02:44:09,119
Speaker 1: after Katrina because it hadn't reached his expectations. Well, sure,

3241
02:44:09,280 --> 02:44:13,280
Speaker 1: that's a real problem for for absolutely, he's got that's

3242
02:44:13,440 --> 02:44:19,080
Speaker 1: all the sympathy, critical support. That job was grim. I'm

3243
02:44:19,120 --> 02:44:22,240
Speaker 1: just gonna say that that sounds like it. I I

3244
02:44:22,400 --> 02:44:25,119
Speaker 1: have a through a through a loved one, a connection

3245
02:44:25,200 --> 02:44:27,920
Speaker 1: to somebody who is like works for a company that

3246
02:44:28,080 --> 02:44:32,400
Speaker 1: makes body bags and was amazing for them. They did

3247
02:44:32,560 --> 02:44:38,000
Speaker 1: incredible in um. I didn't hear any ghoulish stories. It's

3248
02:44:38,000 --> 02:44:39,600
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, of course you guys made a bunch

3249
02:44:39,640 --> 02:44:43,440
Speaker 1: of extra money. Sounds like that was great for you,

3250
02:44:45,520 --> 02:44:48,720
Speaker 1: putting it putting in a mental note to go through

3251
02:44:48,720 --> 02:44:50,880
Speaker 1: a bunch of the campaign contributions of people who make

3252
02:44:50,920 --> 02:44:53,600
Speaker 1: body bags and check if they're supporting anti mess Yes. Yeah,

3253
02:44:53,680 --> 02:44:56,160
Speaker 1: see if Big Corpse got into this at all. Yeah,

3254
02:44:56,240 --> 02:44:58,360
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, the thing that the thing to do is,

3255
02:44:58,720 --> 02:45:00,560
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not a big fan the stock market

3256
02:45:00,600 --> 02:45:02,760
Speaker 1: in general, but next time, the next time that there's

3257
02:45:02,760 --> 02:45:05,960
Speaker 1: a pandemic, find out which companies make body begs on

3258
02:45:06,000 --> 02:45:07,840
Speaker 1: the stock market and invest in those as soon as

3259
02:45:07,879 --> 02:45:09,680
Speaker 1: as soon as the pandemic starts. I mean, I can

3260
02:45:09,720 --> 02:45:12,000
Speaker 1: tell you what I'm I'm putting money into big corps

3261
02:45:12,200 --> 02:45:14,760
Speaker 1: as soon as uh as soon as the next pandemic hits.

3262
02:45:14,879 --> 02:45:22,840
Speaker 1: That's absolutely gonna happen. Oh boy, all right, Yeah that's Graham. Yeah,

3263
02:45:22,879 --> 02:45:26,080
Speaker 1: I think it's fine. There's a reason why after after

3264
02:45:26,160 --> 02:45:29,840
Speaker 1: I started working there, I immediately told my husband, Hey,

3265
02:45:30,720 --> 02:45:34,640
Speaker 1: make sure if I die before you, I'm cremated. So yeah, yeah,

3266
02:45:35,600 --> 02:45:37,959
Speaker 1: I don't want to give these monsters any of my money.

3267
02:45:38,040 --> 02:45:40,240
Speaker 1: What I what I'm looking into is just full full

3268
02:45:40,280 --> 02:45:42,840
Speaker 1: body stuffing that people can pose me around it. But

3269
02:45:43,000 --> 02:45:45,560
Speaker 1: that's a set for a topic. Yeah, you talk about

3270
02:45:45,600 --> 02:45:48,039
Speaker 1: that a lot, Garrison. What I did want to mention

3271
02:45:48,200 --> 02:45:51,160
Speaker 1: is like, actually, when you were talking about how they

3272
02:45:51,280 --> 02:45:53,640
Speaker 1: hire in a lot of employees and they make them

3273
02:45:53,680 --> 02:45:56,440
Speaker 1: more horrible hours and then they you know, they quitness

3274
02:45:56,480 --> 02:45:58,840
Speaker 1: is kind of a constant kind of process and like

3275
02:45:58,959 --> 02:46:01,920
Speaker 1: this isn't exclusive to that industry at all. Think one

3276
02:46:01,959 --> 02:46:05,160
Speaker 1: of the worst defenders of this is actually the Postal Service. UM.

3277
02:46:05,800 --> 02:46:08,120
Speaker 1: I think the Postal Service has like the lowest employee

3278
02:46:08,120 --> 02:46:11,760
Speaker 1: satisfaction out of any shipping company. UM. And like my my,

3279
02:46:12,000 --> 02:46:13,760
Speaker 1: my father, I work for the Postal Service for a bit.

3280
02:46:13,800 --> 02:46:16,960
Speaker 1: And when you first join up, you join as like

3281
02:46:17,400 --> 02:46:20,520
Speaker 1: you join as a on like a non career employee path,

3282
02:46:20,600 --> 02:46:22,840
Speaker 1: and then you can get promoted to a career employee

3283
02:46:22,840 --> 02:46:25,400
Speaker 1: path after a few years. But the turnaround for the

3284
02:46:25,480 --> 02:46:29,280
Speaker 1: non career employee paths is massive, Like local branches can

3285
02:46:29,280 --> 02:46:32,320
Speaker 1: stay after like people who start working at the Postal

3286
02:46:32,400 --> 02:46:34,840
Speaker 1: Service will end up quitting within the year. Now that

3287
02:46:35,000 --> 02:46:37,080
Speaker 1: number can be different based on nationally and for based

3288
02:46:37,120 --> 02:46:38,680
Speaker 1: on like you know, based on what states you're in,

3289
02:46:39,000 --> 02:46:41,320
Speaker 1: but but across the board, it's it's always around at

3290
02:46:41,400 --> 02:46:46,320
Speaker 1: least fifty for employee turnaround for people who join up

3291
02:46:46,320 --> 02:46:50,480
Speaker 1: the Postal Service on these like a city carrier assistant positions,

3292
02:46:50,959 --> 02:46:54,000
Speaker 1: it's fascinating, Yeah, because because when when you when you're

3293
02:46:54,000 --> 02:46:56,080
Speaker 1: a non career employee path you have to work seven

3294
02:46:56,160 --> 02:46:57,800
Speaker 1: days a week and you can be called into work

3295
02:46:57,840 --> 02:47:00,680
Speaker 1: basically any time usually working around tend to all our days,

3296
02:47:00,879 --> 02:47:03,080
Speaker 1: all of the career employees, so all of the sounds,

3297
02:47:05,879 --> 02:47:07,960
Speaker 1: but like all of all, all of like all of

3298
02:47:08,120 --> 02:47:10,280
Speaker 1: the regular carriers get to work like their specific route

3299
02:47:10,280 --> 02:47:12,720
Speaker 1: and that's it. That's their whole day. For the for

3300
02:47:12,840 --> 02:47:14,720
Speaker 1: the people who are new to the job, they're forced

3301
02:47:14,720 --> 02:47:18,160
Speaker 1: to work tons of routes um fill in whenever someone

3302
02:47:18,240 --> 02:47:21,640
Speaker 1: else can't, and we constantly be doing over time um

3303
02:47:21,800 --> 02:47:24,720
Speaker 1: and working like basically NonStop, NonStop, with only like two

3304
02:47:24,959 --> 02:47:27,000
Speaker 1: like only two holidays off a year or something. It's

3305
02:47:27,040 --> 02:47:30,480
Speaker 1: it's pretty intense, um, which is why you know, when

3306
02:47:30,520 --> 02:47:33,520
Speaker 1: the postal service comes have problems and because and and

3307
02:47:33,720 --> 02:47:37,120
Speaker 1: because there's so few there's generally not tons of employees,

3308
02:47:37,720 --> 02:47:39,400
Speaker 1: I mean like there is lots like comparedly like like

3309
02:47:39,480 --> 02:47:41,920
Speaker 1: the Postal Services one of the bigger employers in the

3310
02:47:42,160 --> 02:47:46,000
Speaker 1: whole country. But for people when when when employees drop off,

3311
02:47:46,320 --> 02:47:48,400
Speaker 1: filling those positions can be really hard in times of

3312
02:47:48,480 --> 02:47:50,160
Speaker 1: like crisis, So like you know last year when there's

3313
02:47:50,160 --> 02:47:52,360
Speaker 1: all these problems with the postal service, all of these

3314
02:47:52,440 --> 02:47:54,920
Speaker 1: kind of issues around the supply chain and how people

3315
02:47:54,959 --> 02:47:57,120
Speaker 1: treat their workers. All of them like like you know,

3316
02:47:57,280 --> 02:48:00,440
Speaker 1: compound to create one like much bigger problem which we

3317
02:48:00,480 --> 02:48:02,240
Speaker 1: saw last year with the postal service and like late

3318
02:48:02,280 --> 02:48:04,600
Speaker 1: in like the late summer. Um. So I've just spent

3319
02:48:04,600 --> 02:48:06,279
Speaker 1: an interesting how it's like, you know, these same issues

3320
02:48:06,280 --> 02:48:09,200
Speaker 1: around like how we treat workers is adding on to

3321
02:48:09,280 --> 02:48:11,760
Speaker 1: this problem of like supply chains and getting stuff delivered

3322
02:48:12,000 --> 02:48:14,440
Speaker 1: and all this kind of stuff. And so what what

3323
02:48:14,600 --> 02:48:17,360
Speaker 1: I find interesting there is so you're you know, we're

3324
02:48:17,400 --> 02:48:22,120
Speaker 1: talking about the employee issue and yeah, it's sure. So

3325
02:48:22,360 --> 02:48:25,040
Speaker 1: I've been Uh, the plant I was working in, which

3326
02:48:25,080 --> 02:48:27,600
Speaker 1: is twenty minutes from my house, closed down, and now

3327
02:48:27,680 --> 02:48:34,560
Speaker 1: I'm working ninety miles away literally an hour, and I

3328
02:48:34,640 --> 02:48:36,879
Speaker 1: am i am working four twelves a week, and I'm

3329
02:48:36,959 --> 02:48:39,640
Speaker 1: crashing at my parents house, which they live about sixty

3330
02:48:39,680 --> 02:48:42,720
Speaker 1: miles away. So it's a little bit better, um, but

3331
02:48:43,160 --> 02:48:47,080
Speaker 1: also suck. Yeah, and my parents are hard right evangelicals

3332
02:48:47,080 --> 02:48:51,160
Speaker 1: who do not agree with you know, so that's fun.

3333
02:48:51,480 --> 02:48:54,480
Speaker 1: But um, the plant that I was in was a

3334
02:48:54,600 --> 02:48:56,880
Speaker 1: non union plant, and the one I'm in now is

3335
02:48:56,920 --> 02:48:59,400
Speaker 1: a union plant, and one of the things that I've

3336
02:48:59,440 --> 02:49:03,440
Speaker 1: noticed that actually kind of different is for once in

3337
02:49:03,560 --> 02:49:06,880
Speaker 1: the non union plant, things were actually better because what

3338
02:49:07,000 --> 02:49:08,920
Speaker 1: we could do what what what could be done is,

3339
02:49:09,480 --> 02:49:12,120
Speaker 1: all right, we're all working seven days a week. We

3340
02:49:12,280 --> 02:49:14,640
Speaker 1: have enough staffing that if nobody calls in, we have

3341
02:49:14,840 --> 02:49:17,520
Speaker 1: one spare person who normally goes around and gives breaks

3342
02:49:17,560 --> 02:49:20,199
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Well we could, you know, basically

3343
02:49:20,400 --> 02:49:23,480
Speaker 1: all take turns taking a day off during that seven

3344
02:49:23,560 --> 02:49:26,320
Speaker 1: day week. At the union plant that I'm at now, though,

3345
02:49:26,640 --> 02:49:30,840
Speaker 1: it's all seniority based, so any time that they force

3346
02:49:30,959 --> 02:49:33,600
Speaker 1: over time, they go from the bottom of the seniority

3347
02:49:33,680 --> 02:49:37,240
Speaker 1: list on up. So the people the people who are

3348
02:49:37,280 --> 02:49:39,959
Speaker 1: being forced into those which I described in the thread,

3349
02:49:40,080 --> 02:49:42,640
Speaker 1: I think it was it was split off in the thread.

3350
02:49:42,720 --> 02:49:46,680
Speaker 1: But the people who were being forced to stay over

3351
02:49:46,800 --> 02:49:49,600
Speaker 1: four hours and then come in four hours early, where

3352
02:49:49,640 --> 02:49:52,879
Speaker 1: you oh, you were working six to two, now you're working,

3353
02:49:53,640 --> 02:49:57,640
Speaker 1: you know, six to six, and then you're coming in

3354
02:49:58,320 --> 02:50:00,800
Speaker 1: at two in the mo runing instead of six in

3355
02:50:00,840 --> 02:50:03,320
Speaker 1: the morning the next day are always the people who

3356
02:50:03,360 --> 02:50:06,800
Speaker 1: are the lowest on the seniority list, which is same thing,

3357
02:50:07,120 --> 02:50:09,280
Speaker 1: same same thing with the Postal Service. Yeah, yeah, I

3358
02:50:09,320 --> 02:50:11,840
Speaker 1: mean it's not there's a number of different I mean

3359
02:50:11,879 --> 02:50:14,600
Speaker 1: I've heard that complaint from a couple of different union gigs, um,

3360
02:50:15,240 --> 02:50:18,920
Speaker 1: and it's yeah, it's a problem. Yeah, and it's that's

3361
02:50:18,959 --> 02:50:21,360
Speaker 1: why we get these new people and they get trained up,

3362
02:50:21,400 --> 02:50:24,360
Speaker 1: and now they're trained and they're signed off, and then

3363
02:50:24,400 --> 02:50:27,080
Speaker 1: they immediately go from because when you're training, you're not

3364
02:50:27,600 --> 02:50:31,160
Speaker 1: you can't train on overtime or whatever. But now it's oh, okay,

3365
02:50:31,200 --> 02:50:34,039
Speaker 1: well now you're working every weekend, you're being forced over,

3366
02:50:34,120 --> 02:50:37,920
Speaker 1: you're being forced in early, just NonStop. And so yeah,

3367
02:50:38,080 --> 02:50:41,360
Speaker 1: they get trained for a month and then a month

3368
02:50:41,440 --> 02:50:45,000
Speaker 1: after that they quit because they went from working a

3369
02:50:45,240 --> 02:50:51,400
Speaker 1: relatively sane amount to aunt. We went fifty eight days

3370
02:50:51,440 --> 02:50:55,160
Speaker 1: at one point without a day off. My dad went

3371
02:50:55,240 --> 02:50:57,200
Speaker 1: like almost I think like three hundred days without with

3372
02:50:57,360 --> 02:50:59,360
Speaker 1: without a day off when he started the Postal Service.

3373
02:50:59,720 --> 02:51:01,640
Speaker 1: Like kind of funny thing is like when you hear

3374
02:51:01,680 --> 02:51:03,640
Speaker 1: the Postal Service talking with this like from the in

3375
02:51:03,720 --> 02:51:06,000
Speaker 1: their own reports and on their own website, what they

3376
02:51:06,080 --> 02:51:08,280
Speaker 1: find a problem with is not not the turnaround in

3377
02:51:08,400 --> 02:51:11,760
Speaker 1: and of itself, but how they're basically wasting money on

3378
02:51:11,879 --> 02:51:14,160
Speaker 1: trainings for people that don't end up working. It's like

3379
02:51:14,440 --> 02:51:16,720
Speaker 1: that is their main concern is that they're spending all

3380
02:51:16,720 --> 02:51:19,480
Speaker 1: this money on like training for people that don't stick

3381
02:51:19,520 --> 02:51:22,560
Speaker 1: around often. Um, and like, yeah, well maybe you should

3382
02:51:22,560 --> 02:51:25,360
Speaker 1: address why they don't stick around often. That's that seems

3383
02:51:25,400 --> 02:51:29,240
Speaker 1: to be kind of the actual issue here. Yeah, And

3384
02:51:29,520 --> 02:51:31,280
Speaker 1: what I've been pushing for, and I know this is

3385
02:51:31,320 --> 02:51:33,040
Speaker 1: more on the labor side than on the on the

3386
02:51:33,080 --> 02:51:35,840
Speaker 1: supply chain side that we were focusing on. I've been

3387
02:51:35,920 --> 02:51:39,080
Speaker 1: pushing for instead of three shifts where we keep just

3388
02:51:39,160 --> 02:51:42,040
Speaker 1: getting just hammered with this stuff, I want us to

3389
02:51:42,120 --> 02:51:46,240
Speaker 1: do four shifts, twelve hour days and do like a

3390
02:51:46,360 --> 02:51:48,840
Speaker 1: two on two off, three on three off type swing

3391
02:51:48,959 --> 02:51:53,440
Speaker 1: shift where you have like one shift that works. You know,

3392
02:51:53,800 --> 02:51:56,080
Speaker 1: you work three days one week, four days the next week,

3393
02:51:56,120 --> 02:51:58,280
Speaker 1: and you work twelve hour days, but really you wind

3394
02:51:58,360 --> 02:52:00,200
Speaker 1: up getting a bunch of days off, you know, Like

3395
02:52:00,320 --> 02:52:02,880
Speaker 1: that's if you're gonna work seven days a week, that's

3396
02:52:02,920 --> 02:52:05,840
Speaker 1: the best way to do it in my opinion. I mean, like,

3397
02:52:06,440 --> 02:52:08,920
Speaker 1: you know, it's there's a lot of resistance to well,

3398
02:52:09,240 --> 02:52:11,000
Speaker 1: well then we have to hire these extra people. Well

3399
02:52:11,000 --> 02:52:13,680
Speaker 1: you're hiring those people anyway. And then they're quitting. I mean,

3400
02:52:13,720 --> 02:52:15,840
Speaker 1: like you're not even getting your value out of them

3401
02:52:16,240 --> 02:52:18,840
Speaker 1: slave drivers. I mean, like you said, this is more,

3402
02:52:18,920 --> 02:52:20,880
Speaker 1: this is more than labor side than the supply chain side.

3403
02:52:21,160 --> 02:52:23,440
Speaker 1: But honestly, these are these are like the same side, right,

3404
02:52:23,520 --> 02:52:26,000
Speaker 1: because if you don't have employee like this is you know,

3405
02:52:26,120 --> 02:52:28,040
Speaker 1: this is a fundamental you know thing, and like how

3406
02:52:28,080 --> 02:52:30,720
Speaker 1: capitalism works, right, you need to have you know, workers

3407
02:52:30,800 --> 02:52:32,840
Speaker 1: to make there have be any value at all. Right,

3408
02:52:33,120 --> 02:52:35,600
Speaker 1: So if there's if there isn't any people to working,

3409
02:52:35,840 --> 02:52:37,920
Speaker 1: then there is no supply chain. It's gone. Because if

3410
02:52:37,920 --> 02:52:39,680
Speaker 1: we need people to do it, both on the production

3411
02:52:39,760 --> 02:52:41,920
Speaker 1: side and both in like the transportation side. That's like

3412
02:52:41,959 --> 02:52:45,120
Speaker 1: you know ups um usps, you know FedEx, you know,

3413
02:52:45,160 --> 02:52:47,360
Speaker 1: so like the mail carriers and stuff is very important

3414
02:52:47,360 --> 02:52:49,880
Speaker 1: to all of this because you you you need in

3415
02:52:49,959 --> 02:52:51,520
Speaker 1: order to for for there to be a supply chain,

3416
02:52:51,560 --> 02:52:53,720
Speaker 1: there needs to be the chain part right where you

3417
02:52:53,800 --> 02:52:56,720
Speaker 1: carry it from one place to to another. So it's

3418
02:52:56,720 --> 02:52:58,560
Speaker 1: both it's both on the production side and on the

3419
02:52:58,600 --> 02:53:03,240
Speaker 1: transportation side. For all these problems, you know. Yeah, And

3420
02:53:03,360 --> 02:53:05,280
Speaker 1: one of them one of the things that I in

3421
02:53:05,400 --> 02:53:08,160
Speaker 1: the replies to my thread, which I got into was

3422
02:53:08,600 --> 02:53:14,320
Speaker 1: that part of the the only slack in just in

3423
02:53:14,440 --> 02:53:19,880
Speaker 1: Time manufacturing is the employees. They've pulled all of the

3424
02:53:20,000 --> 02:53:22,560
Speaker 1: slack out of the system on the mechanical side and

3425
02:53:22,640 --> 02:53:25,039
Speaker 1: on the production side of it, on all the physical side.

3426
02:53:25,320 --> 02:53:28,920
Speaker 1: The only slack left is people, and they have stretched

3427
02:53:29,000 --> 02:53:32,640
Speaker 1: us all to the absolute breaking point. Now I'm lucky,

3428
02:53:33,000 --> 02:53:37,320
Speaker 1: relatively speaking in that I'm salary so like I'm more

3429
02:53:37,400 --> 02:53:40,920
Speaker 1: on the inventory side of things, so I'm not doing

3430
02:53:41,000 --> 02:53:43,280
Speaker 1: the hourly production, seven day a week thing. Like I said,

3431
02:53:43,280 --> 02:53:48,120
Speaker 1: I work four twelves um. But I can still you know,

3432
02:53:48,200 --> 02:53:51,360
Speaker 1: and that that's this job, every other previous job not

3433
02:53:51,480 --> 02:53:54,480
Speaker 1: the same thing. But I can still see where they've

3434
02:53:54,560 --> 02:53:58,560
Speaker 1: taken out. Like once again, we used to have spares

3435
02:53:58,600 --> 02:54:00,520
Speaker 1: on the shelf so that when something broke down we

3436
02:54:00,560 --> 02:54:03,080
Speaker 1: could fix the machine and keep running. Now instead of

3437
02:54:03,160 --> 02:54:06,800
Speaker 1: the spare, the spare is people working weekends. That's the

3438
02:54:06,879 --> 02:54:10,440
Speaker 1: spare part. And that makes total sense, right, You're you're

3439
02:54:10,560 --> 02:54:15,600
Speaker 1: the capitalist. A better spare that is a part on

3440
02:54:15,640 --> 02:54:17,800
Speaker 1: the shelf costs you money in terms of like you

3441
02:54:17,840 --> 02:54:19,880
Speaker 1: need to have that space, that's extra rent you're paying.

3442
02:54:19,920 --> 02:54:22,680
Speaker 1: You need to have bought that part. Having your people

3443
02:54:22,840 --> 02:54:26,480
Speaker 1: just killed themselves is much cheaper. You can sort of

3444
02:54:26,560 --> 02:54:28,760
Speaker 1: misuse the marks here, right, or like one of Mark's

3445
02:54:28,840 --> 02:54:31,840
Speaker 1: things is like, okay, well, you know you have you

3446
02:54:31,920 --> 02:54:33,920
Speaker 1: have this increased machinery. You have this increased machinery, but

3447
02:54:33,920 --> 02:54:36,600
Speaker 1: that means you're producing less value because you know, you've

3448
02:54:36,640 --> 02:54:38,400
Speaker 1: you put more people out of work. Was like, okay, well,

3449
02:54:38,480 --> 02:54:40,800
Speaker 1: what if what if we just we re extend the

3450
02:54:40,879 --> 02:54:43,959
Speaker 1: work day again and sort of you know, reverse all

3451
02:54:44,000 --> 02:54:46,080
Speaker 1: of the gains that have been happening. Well, okay, I

3452
02:54:46,120 --> 02:54:48,520
Speaker 1: say have been happening, reverse all the gains that happened

3453
02:54:48,560 --> 02:54:51,400
Speaker 1: between about nineteen thirty and like nineteen seventy, and just

3454
02:54:52,200 --> 02:54:53,520
Speaker 1: oh well, what if we just make everyone for a

3455
02:54:53,560 --> 02:54:56,840
Speaker 1: twelve hour days again? And that that was you know,

3456
02:54:56,920 --> 02:54:58,800
Speaker 1: one of that was the thing that would struck me

3457
02:54:59,040 --> 02:55:00,760
Speaker 1: both listening to this and reading threat, was that it's

3458
02:55:02,000 --> 02:55:05,240
Speaker 1: it's not even just wages, it's just it's it's it's

3459
02:55:05,280 --> 02:55:08,560
Speaker 1: it's just the fundamental power rebalance. And then it's a

3460
02:55:08,560 --> 02:55:10,959
Speaker 1: fundamental power and balance. It's gotten so bad that even

3461
02:55:11,160 --> 02:55:14,440
Speaker 1: like you know, the the like sometimes the remains of

3462
02:55:14,480 --> 02:55:16,600
Speaker 1: the union system, it's like it's not even you know,

3463
02:55:16,800 --> 02:55:19,800
Speaker 1: the the unions like in this particure case like this

3464
02:55:19,879 --> 02:55:21,640
Speaker 1: is they're not even it's not even really helping. It's

3465
02:55:21,640 --> 02:55:23,840
Speaker 1: just creating, like you have a small labor aristocracy that

3466
02:55:23,879 --> 02:55:25,880
Speaker 1: you have everyone else could be getting just like ground down.

3467
02:55:26,360 --> 02:55:28,560
Speaker 1: In this case, it's that we've got we've got a

3468
02:55:28,600 --> 02:55:30,560
Speaker 1: small core of people who have been there twenty or

3469
02:55:30,640 --> 02:55:35,520
Speaker 1: thirty years. And and whereas before, maybe even ten years ago,

3470
02:55:36,320 --> 02:55:38,200
Speaker 1: they might have viewed the union as a vehicle to

3471
02:55:38,280 --> 02:55:41,600
Speaker 1: help everybody, things have gotten so bad that now it's

3472
02:55:41,720 --> 02:55:44,720
Speaker 1: just okay, I'm going to use this system as much

3473
02:55:44,760 --> 02:55:48,160
Speaker 1: as i can to cover my own ass because things

3474
02:55:48,240 --> 02:55:53,040
Speaker 1: have gotten so damn bad. And obviously, you know, Reagan

3475
02:55:53,120 --> 02:55:55,240
Speaker 1: destroying the unions and stuff like that help with that.

3476
02:55:55,400 --> 02:55:58,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's that I and I feel like the

3477
02:55:59,000 --> 02:56:02,160
Speaker 1: union in in my job could be very helpful, um,

3478
02:56:02,680 --> 02:56:06,840
Speaker 1: but it would require certain people in it too, instead

3479
02:56:06,879 --> 02:56:09,879
Speaker 1: of looking out for just their own interest, because hey,

3480
02:56:09,959 --> 02:56:12,600
Speaker 1: I've been here twenty five years, so I'm in the clear.

3481
02:56:13,520 --> 02:56:19,040
Speaker 1: Like actually, go, okay, maybe I should you know, sacrifice

3482
02:56:19,040 --> 02:56:21,880
Speaker 1: a little bit of of that power or that privilege

3483
02:56:22,280 --> 02:56:24,680
Speaker 1: to help the people who are just hiring in so

3484
02:56:24,879 --> 02:56:27,680
Speaker 1: that we can keep them, so that that this doesn't

3485
02:56:27,760 --> 02:56:30,640
Speaker 1: have to keep happening. Yeah, and it's you know, this

3486
02:56:30,840 --> 02:56:32,480
Speaker 1: is one of the things that has made the John

3487
02:56:32,560 --> 02:56:36,119
Speaker 1: Dear strike, that made it so powerful, was these those

3488
02:56:36,200 --> 02:56:38,720
Speaker 1: older workers who I mean that they had a tiered system, right,

3489
02:56:38,760 --> 02:56:40,720
Speaker 1: So you have workers hired I think before like ninety

3490
02:56:41,000 --> 02:56:44,080
Speaker 1: seven got a full pension, and then like after ninety

3491
02:56:44,120 --> 02:56:46,119
Speaker 1: seven was like a third of that, and then workers

3492
02:56:46,240 --> 02:56:47,920
Speaker 1: hired in the last couple of years weren't getting any

3493
02:56:47,920 --> 02:56:49,520
Speaker 1: pension at all. And a big part of the strike

3494
02:56:49,680 --> 02:56:53,160
Speaker 1: is like all of the workers saying that's not acceptable, um,

3495
02:56:53,200 --> 02:56:55,480
Speaker 1: including the ones who had a full pension, who had

3496
02:56:55,520 --> 02:56:57,320
Speaker 1: some of a pension, like saying that, like the fact

3497
02:56:57,400 --> 02:56:59,640
Speaker 1: that the newer people are getting screwed over is an acceptable.

3498
02:57:00,080 --> 02:57:03,120
Speaker 1: And I've heard different reasons for why that happened, because

3499
02:57:03,480 --> 02:57:05,800
Speaker 1: this is this tactic what you're talking about, and kind

3500
02:57:05,840 --> 02:57:07,920
Speaker 1: of like what happened to John Deere, it was a

3501
02:57:07,959 --> 02:57:09,920
Speaker 1: common tactic. You know. It's the thing we talked about

3502
02:57:09,920 --> 02:57:12,360
Speaker 1: in colonialism all the time. You want to divide the

3503
02:57:12,440 --> 02:57:15,600
Speaker 1: population against you know, each other, each other one way

3504
02:57:15,680 --> 02:57:17,400
Speaker 1: or the other. Give them like make make them feel

3505
02:57:17,440 --> 02:57:20,040
Speaker 1: as if their interests are not necessarily aligned, you know,

3506
02:57:20,120 --> 02:57:23,600
Speaker 1: so the people who um, and there's reasons. I've heard

3507
02:57:23,600 --> 02:57:26,800
Speaker 1: different reasons for why John Deere was different, including the

3508
02:57:26,879 --> 02:57:29,320
Speaker 1: idea that like a lot of these are family jobs,

3509
02:57:29,360 --> 02:57:31,600
Speaker 1: so it was not people. It was people being like, well,

3510
02:57:31,640 --> 02:57:35,480
Speaker 1: my kid's not going to get a pension, and that's bullshit. Um. Anyway, Yeah,

3511
02:57:35,520 --> 02:57:38,600
Speaker 1: I just it's it's it's important to talk about like

3512
02:57:38,879 --> 02:57:42,480
Speaker 1: that as a problem, and also to highlight different strikes

3513
02:57:42,560 --> 02:57:44,840
Speaker 1: where that seems to have been overcome by the workers,

3514
02:57:44,959 --> 02:57:46,960
Speaker 1: like this fact that they were attempted to be played

3515
02:57:46,959 --> 02:57:50,440
Speaker 1: against each other didn't really work out, and where in

3516
02:57:50,520 --> 02:57:53,840
Speaker 1: my case it very much is like another another example

3517
02:57:53,959 --> 02:57:57,280
Speaker 1: being so we'll have people who are are lower on

3518
02:57:57,360 --> 02:58:00,160
Speaker 1: the seniority list and like let's say, for example, well

3519
02:58:00,280 --> 02:58:03,680
Speaker 1: one weekend we're running lines three and five and not

3520
02:58:03,800 --> 02:58:09,000
Speaker 1: the other two. The newer people might only know stuff

3521
02:58:09,080 --> 02:58:14,680
Speaker 1: online four. But if the new people don't get scheduled

3522
02:58:14,720 --> 02:58:16,840
Speaker 1: to do something, even if they're just being forced in

3523
02:58:16,920 --> 02:58:19,640
Speaker 1: to sweep the floor, the people who have the higher

3524
02:58:19,680 --> 02:58:22,960
Speaker 1: seniority will throw a fit saying, well, they're lower seniority,

3525
02:58:22,959 --> 02:58:25,360
Speaker 1: why aren't they in here as opposed to well, because

3526
02:58:25,360 --> 02:58:27,879
Speaker 1: they can't run that machine. And then they don't want

3527
02:58:27,879 --> 02:58:30,520
Speaker 1: to train them to run that machine. It's it's very

3528
02:58:31,040 --> 02:58:34,040
Speaker 1: they've managed to succeed where the John Deer capitalists might

3529
02:58:34,080 --> 02:58:38,520
Speaker 1: have failed in making this all about like all right working.

3530
02:58:38,800 --> 02:58:42,280
Speaker 1: And I don't blame the people who have the higher

3531
02:58:42,320 --> 02:58:45,000
Speaker 1: seniority on this because if my you know, if if

3532
02:58:45,040 --> 02:58:48,199
Speaker 1: you're working, conditions are hell and you have the option

3533
02:58:48,320 --> 02:58:51,840
Speaker 1: of okay, well, on a short term scale, I can

3534
02:58:51,920 --> 02:58:56,320
Speaker 1: screw over this other person and actually see my family

3535
02:58:56,440 --> 02:58:59,120
Speaker 1: once in a while. Most people are gonna do it,

3536
02:59:00,360 --> 02:59:02,800
Speaker 1: especially if that person is somebody who just hired in

3537
02:59:02,920 --> 02:59:05,800
Speaker 1: that you don't know, we'll screre that guy. And that's

3538
02:59:05,879 --> 02:59:09,440
Speaker 1: where once again, if unions were stronger, if there was

3539
02:59:09,480 --> 02:59:11,280
Speaker 1: more than what is it right now, like to three

3540
02:59:11,959 --> 02:59:16,000
Speaker 1: of jobs or a union job. But unions have been

3541
02:59:16,080 --> 02:59:19,880
Speaker 1: so like just weakened that this sort of situation is

3542
02:59:19,879 --> 02:59:24,400
Speaker 1: allowed to happen, I guess you could say, and I think, yeah,

3543
02:59:24,480 --> 02:59:26,520
Speaker 1: that comes back to just like the solute, the solution

3544
02:59:26,560 --> 02:59:30,800
Speaker 1: to the supply chain problem isn't really like it's it's

3545
02:59:30,840 --> 02:59:33,200
Speaker 1: it's it's not it's not a logistical solution. It's not

3546
02:59:33,280 --> 02:59:35,760
Speaker 1: even really like a capital gained solution, like a tax solution.

3547
02:59:35,800 --> 02:59:39,360
Speaker 1: The solution is that you know, you have to fundamentally

3548
02:59:39,440 --> 02:59:43,000
Speaker 1: change the balance of power between capital and labor, and

3549
02:59:43,640 --> 02:59:44,960
Speaker 1: you know, I mean that and that and that that

3550
02:59:45,080 --> 02:59:47,160
Speaker 1: can be like you know, I think things will get

3551
02:59:47,240 --> 02:59:50,680
Speaker 1: better if it's if it's more unions, but like things

3552
02:59:50,720 --> 02:59:54,240
Speaker 1: are going to continue to suck until like the capitalists

3553
02:59:54,240 --> 02:59:57,320
Speaker 1: ceased to exist as a class. Yeah, And I think

3554
02:59:57,440 --> 03:00:02,200
Speaker 1: that's like that that's because yeah, that's always the and

3555
03:00:02,280 --> 03:00:04,760
Speaker 1: it's one of those like we get we get critiqued

3556
03:00:04,840 --> 03:00:08,400
Speaker 1: on the internets sometimes because I think people will will say, like, well,

3557
03:00:08,959 --> 03:00:10,960
Speaker 1: you know, is your only solution to this? You keep

3558
03:00:10,959 --> 03:00:13,560
Speaker 1: talking about like mutual aid and anarchism, and like I

3559
03:00:13,680 --> 03:00:16,920
Speaker 1: just don't feel like that's a big scale solutions. Like yeah,

3560
03:00:17,000 --> 03:00:19,280
Speaker 1: but the current system isn't going to work very well

3561
03:00:19,400 --> 03:00:21,480
Speaker 1: on a big scale. Part of what we're always talking

3562
03:00:21,560 --> 03:00:24,320
Speaker 1: about is like how to how to get your how

3563
03:00:24,360 --> 03:00:27,080
Speaker 1: to get yourself and your people through the situation, because

3564
03:00:27,160 --> 03:00:29,720
Speaker 1: that's also important, and it's the same thing with like

3565
03:00:29,840 --> 03:00:32,840
Speaker 1: a union, right unionizing you and your fellow laborers and

3566
03:00:32,920 --> 03:00:35,880
Speaker 1: your factory, or or making your union more effective and

3567
03:00:35,920 --> 03:00:38,320
Speaker 1: more able to like advocate for everyone. That's not going

3568
03:00:38,360 --> 03:00:40,560
Speaker 1: to fix the bigger problem. That's not going to deal

3569
03:00:40,680 --> 03:00:43,200
Speaker 1: with the the issues that like, that's not going to

3570
03:00:43,440 --> 03:00:45,959
Speaker 1: stop climate change, that's not going to stop supply line

3571
03:00:45,959 --> 03:00:47,720
Speaker 1: crunches in a grand scale, it's not going to stop

3572
03:00:48,000 --> 03:00:50,720
Speaker 1: creeping authoritarianism. But it can make life more bearable for

3573
03:00:50,800 --> 03:00:52,920
Speaker 1: you and the people around you. And that's that's also

3574
03:00:53,080 --> 03:00:58,240
Speaker 1: part of like getting by in a crumbling world about yeah,

3575
03:00:58,760 --> 03:01:04,200
Speaker 1: and yep, it's it requires a bit of more foresight,

3576
03:01:04,840 --> 03:01:07,160
Speaker 1: which I think was one of the other purposes behind

3577
03:01:07,400 --> 03:01:09,960
Speaker 1: working us as many hours as they do. Is when

3578
03:01:10,040 --> 03:01:14,480
Speaker 1: you're so fucking tired all the time from working what

3579
03:01:14,600 --> 03:01:16,880
Speaker 1: you're working, you don't have time to stop and think

3580
03:01:16,879 --> 03:01:21,120
Speaker 1: about the larger implications of things. M hm and yeah,

3581
03:01:22,200 --> 03:01:25,440
Speaker 1: And that's part of what they're going for. Yep. Yeah.

3582
03:01:25,840 --> 03:01:28,600
Speaker 1: So I don't know anyone else get anything. Well, I

3583
03:01:28,640 --> 03:01:30,400
Speaker 1: guess just the clear solution of this is that I

3584
03:01:30,480 --> 03:01:32,600
Speaker 1: need to just stuck up on Bang, right, I just

3585
03:01:32,680 --> 03:01:36,000
Speaker 1: need to buy all I can because I love Bang I.

3586
03:01:36,600 --> 03:01:44,360
Speaker 1: I can't stop drinking Bang I will I'm scared of

3587
03:01:44,440 --> 03:01:47,600
Speaker 1: how much Bag I drink. I will say. One of

3588
03:01:47,720 --> 03:01:51,520
Speaker 1: one of the wonderful mutual aid solutions is if you're very,

3589
03:01:51,640 --> 03:01:54,680
Speaker 1: very nice to the syrup mixing people. They will be

3590
03:01:54,840 --> 03:01:57,240
Speaker 1: kind to you if you are working a double and

3591
03:01:57,320 --> 03:01:59,240
Speaker 1: they will give you a shot of the energy drink

3592
03:01:59,240 --> 03:02:03,960
Speaker 1: syrup before it been mixed. Oh my god, oh boy.

3593
03:02:04,560 --> 03:02:10,640
Speaker 1: You should you should not have told Garrison that a problem.

3594
03:02:11,600 --> 03:02:14,480
Speaker 1: Garrison's going to quit his job podcasting just to be

3595
03:02:14,600 --> 03:02:18,879
Speaker 1: able to get just gonna shooting up energy drink here

3596
03:02:18,920 --> 03:02:21,480
Speaker 1: on out. That's all I'm doing with my time. I'm

3597
03:02:22,000 --> 03:02:25,080
Speaker 1: I'm leaving, leaving the call right now, finding the nearest factory.

3598
03:02:25,480 --> 03:02:29,240
Speaker 1: And my second day on the on the job in

3599
03:02:29,320 --> 03:02:31,920
Speaker 1: the soda manufacturing thing, I had a twenty four pack

3600
03:02:32,000 --> 03:02:36,160
Speaker 1: of energy drink explode all over me change of clothes,

3601
03:02:36,360 --> 03:02:38,800
Speaker 1: and that's when I learned that caffeine and touring can

3602
03:02:38,840 --> 03:02:43,480
Speaker 1: soak through your skin. Oh yes, I mean basically was

3603
03:02:43,680 --> 03:02:47,160
Speaker 1: seeing sound? Okay. So I I've just been looking up

3604
03:02:47,240 --> 03:02:49,800
Speaker 1: inflatable hot tubs and I feel like if I could

3605
03:02:49,920 --> 03:02:53,280
Speaker 1: order enough pure energy drink syrup in an inflatable hot tub,

3606
03:02:53,360 --> 03:02:57,800
Speaker 1: I could build basically the equivalent of Baron Harconan's rejuvenation bath,

3607
03:02:58,920 --> 03:03:01,760
Speaker 1: but with like Peter Bang syrup. That is that is,

3608
03:03:01,840 --> 03:03:05,160
Speaker 1: that is my plan. Just twelve caffeine and Tori, it's

3609
03:03:05,200 --> 03:03:06,960
Speaker 1: just gonna be we're all gonna quit our jobs. We're

3610
03:03:06,959 --> 03:03:08,560
Speaker 1: just gonna have the same amount of money. They get

3611
03:03:08,640 --> 03:03:13,560
Speaker 1: slower over time because we're again spending it all on banks. Obviously,

3612
03:03:13,680 --> 03:03:16,240
Speaker 1: you need you need the inside person to supply you

3613
03:03:16,360 --> 03:03:18,080
Speaker 1: with the syrup. So we'll just have sort of an

3614
03:03:18,120 --> 03:03:20,520
Speaker 1: Ocean's eleven situation where you guys pull up to the

3615
03:03:20,600 --> 03:03:24,160
Speaker 1: loading dock and with a tanker and I'm just hooking

3616
03:03:24,200 --> 03:03:27,119
Speaker 1: the truck up. You know, it's gonna be like Scarface,

3617
03:03:27,480 --> 03:03:30,960
Speaker 1: but we're selling pure syrup. And then Garrison loses his

3618
03:03:31,120 --> 03:03:34,160
Speaker 1: mind and winds up in a machine gun fight in

3619
03:03:34,200 --> 03:03:37,400
Speaker 1: a mansion, and when instead of burying his face into

3620
03:03:37,480 --> 03:03:39,879
Speaker 1: a mountain of cocaine, he's instead got just a little

3621
03:03:42,000 --> 03:03:44,360
Speaker 1: he's just sticking his hand into a bowl of syrup

3622
03:03:44,480 --> 03:03:49,800
Speaker 1: to absorb the caffeinated nutrients. When I when I p

3623
03:03:49,920 --> 03:03:52,920
Speaker 1: it's just gonna be straight syrup. Now that is yeah. Anyway,

3624
03:03:53,280 --> 03:03:59,160
Speaker 1: Well that's the episode where if people want to find

3625
03:03:59,240 --> 03:04:01,760
Speaker 1: you a lot where and they find you? So I

3626
03:04:01,959 --> 03:04:04,760
Speaker 1: host along with my husband and our friend Justin, we

3627
03:04:04,879 --> 03:04:09,160
Speaker 1: host a trans comedy and pop culture podcast where we

3628
03:04:09,240 --> 03:04:14,519
Speaker 1: also interview interesting people. Um it's called the Violet Wanderers.

3629
03:04:14,879 --> 03:04:17,280
Speaker 1: So you can find us on Twitter at violet Wanderers

3630
03:04:18,040 --> 03:04:21,400
Speaker 1: or the Violet Wanderers dot com or email the Violet

3631
03:04:21,440 --> 03:04:25,280
Speaker 1: wanders at gmail dot com. And that's basically that's my

3632
03:04:25,520 --> 03:04:28,200
Speaker 1: Twitter handle. And I just slowly got sucked into the

3633
03:04:28,280 --> 03:04:30,920
Speaker 1: Twitter hellscape where yeah that happens. Originally one on just

3634
03:04:31,040 --> 03:04:33,000
Speaker 1: like oh, I'm gonna just promote my show, and then

3635
03:04:33,040 --> 03:04:34,960
Speaker 1: I started responding to people and before you know what,

3636
03:04:35,000 --> 03:04:38,560
Speaker 1: I'm writing twenty tweet rants about just in time on

3637
03:04:38,680 --> 03:04:41,920
Speaker 1: my stupid gay podcast account. I got into Twitter to

3638
03:04:42,000 --> 03:04:44,880
Speaker 1: converse with a young Justice podcast and that's why I

3639
03:04:44,920 --> 03:04:47,600
Speaker 1: created my Twitter accounts. And here I am now So

3640
03:04:48,840 --> 03:04:50,520
Speaker 1: I was trying to get a planet side to Beta

3641
03:04:50,640 --> 03:04:54,400
Speaker 1: Key and I got it. But the consequences where I

3642
03:04:54,520 --> 03:04:58,320
Speaker 1: am now here, Yeah Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, and it's consequences

3643
03:04:58,680 --> 03:05:02,120
Speaker 1: disaster for your you're this, You're such a child. I

3644
03:05:02,320 --> 03:05:06,240
Speaker 1: remember the first Planet Side Betaday, Chris. It was an

3645
03:05:06,280 --> 03:05:10,200
Speaker 1: age and dreamed of. Oh Chris, and you all are

3646
03:05:10,240 --> 03:05:12,600
Speaker 1: welcome to come on the show anytime. I will. I

3647
03:05:12,640 --> 03:05:15,720
Speaker 1: will bother you to come on my show sometime. Excellent. Yeah,

3648
03:05:17,200 --> 03:05:22,480
Speaker 1: plugs plugs probably. Yeah. Yeah, Like I said, the Violet

3649
03:05:22,560 --> 03:05:27,640
Speaker 1: Wanderers were on Apple, were on Spotify, were on podcast Addict, whatever,

3650
03:05:27,879 --> 03:05:31,640
Speaker 1: you know, it's all your major podcast platforms. Uh. The

3651
03:05:31,879 --> 03:05:36,240
Speaker 1: tagline of the show is made for no one, So, um,

3652
03:05:36,680 --> 03:05:39,280
Speaker 1: expect a lot of queer humor, a lot of me

3653
03:05:39,920 --> 03:05:44,480
Speaker 1: calling my husband a slut, and us talking about video games,

3654
03:05:44,520 --> 03:05:49,000
Speaker 1: comic books, movies, and then occasionally just randomly interviewing really

3655
03:05:49,080 --> 03:05:51,360
Speaker 1: interesting people who I harassed into coming on the show,

3656
03:05:52,360 --> 03:05:54,879
Speaker 1: like which Robert I know, you know Daniel Harper from

3657
03:05:54,920 --> 03:05:58,600
Speaker 1: I Don't speak German. He's been on a few times. Um,

3658
03:05:58,760 --> 03:06:02,520
Speaker 1: we've had him on and had some fun talking about Nazis,

3659
03:06:02,680 --> 03:06:06,560
Speaker 1: which ye teams kind of you know, counterintuitive, but there's

3660
03:06:06,560 --> 03:06:08,320
Speaker 1: a lot of humor that can be found in Nazis

3661
03:06:08,320 --> 03:06:10,720
Speaker 1: if you know the right places to look. And yeah,

3662
03:06:10,840 --> 03:06:13,720
Speaker 1: I you know what, I just watched a German language

3663
03:06:13,760 --> 03:06:17,120
Speaker 1: movie about Hitler that was made in two thousand seven

3664
03:06:17,280 --> 03:06:20,280
Speaker 1: by a Jewish German comedian that includes I've watched a

3665
03:06:20,320 --> 03:06:23,039
Speaker 1: lot of Hitler movies, you know, periodically, I just get

3666
03:06:23,080 --> 03:06:25,040
Speaker 1: on Netflix and Hulu type and Hitler just kind of

3667
03:06:25,080 --> 03:06:27,920
Speaker 1: watch whatever is there. This is the first time I

3668
03:06:28,000 --> 03:06:30,880
Speaker 1: have seen Hitler fucking in a movie. I've never seen

3669
03:06:30,959 --> 03:06:33,760
Speaker 1: anybody who had the courage to do that. And he

3670
03:06:33,959 --> 03:06:37,360
Speaker 1: is just yeah, he's it's it's uncoming as one ball

3671
03:06:37,560 --> 03:06:39,720
Speaker 1: just swinging in the land. It is. It is an

3672
03:06:39,840 --> 03:06:42,920
Speaker 1: uncomfortable scene, but not the most uncomfortable scene in that

3673
03:06:43,000 --> 03:06:47,800
Speaker 1: particular movie. Um, it's quite a film, that's asn't say,

3674
03:06:47,840 --> 03:06:50,400
Speaker 1: that's pretty amazing. But yeah, come on, come on sometime

3675
03:06:50,879 --> 03:06:53,480
Speaker 1: we'll play around vin Selmageddon, which is a game that

3676
03:06:53,520 --> 03:06:56,280
Speaker 1: I've created, and uh, you know, if you guys don't

3677
03:06:56,280 --> 03:06:58,760
Speaker 1: want to kill yourselves afterwards, then hey, you survived the game.

3678
03:06:58,920 --> 03:07:00,440
Speaker 1: As long as I can get some start up out

3679
03:07:00,440 --> 03:07:02,320
Speaker 1: of the deal, that's that's all I want. I will,

3680
03:07:02,520 --> 03:07:04,720
Speaker 1: I will, I will smuggle you some syrup out and

3681
03:07:04,760 --> 03:07:07,800
Speaker 1: mail it to you. Okay, alright, that's that's gonna do

3682
03:07:07,920 --> 03:07:09,600
Speaker 1: it for all of us here today that it could

3683
03:07:09,640 --> 03:07:14,199
Speaker 1: happen here until next time. I don't know. Go go read,

3684
03:07:14,520 --> 03:07:18,760
Speaker 1: Go read The Dawn of Everything. It's good, it's worth reading.

3685
03:07:19,240 --> 03:07:32,920
Speaker 1: Check it out. Hey, We'll be back Monday with more

3686
03:07:33,000 --> 03:07:35,640
Speaker 1: episodes every week from now until the heat Death of

3687
03:07:35,680 --> 03:07:38,440
Speaker 1: the Universe. It could happen here is a production of

3688
03:07:38,480 --> 03:07:41,400
Speaker 1: cool zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

3689
03:07:41,520 --> 03:07:43,959
Speaker 1: visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check

3690
03:07:44,040 --> 03:07:46,280
Speaker 1: us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

3691
03:07:46,400 --> 03:07:49,400
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts, you can find sources

3692
03:07:49,440 --> 03:07:52,000
Speaker 1: for It could happen here, updated monthly at cool zone

3693
03:07:52,000 --> 03:07:54,760
Speaker 1: media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.