1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, we have some exciting news to share. ABC 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: News Studios has turned Caroline Bregas story from Betrayal season 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: four into a docuseriies. You'll get to meet the people involved, 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: You'll hear from people who have never spoken before, and 5 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: you get to see where this story took place. We 6 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: are so proud and excited to share it with you all. 7 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: Stream Betrayal Dirty Secrets now on Hulu or Hulu for 8 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: Disney Plus. Hey, guys, before we dive into the episode, 9 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: we have exciting news. Betrayal is coming to substack, which 10 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: is an online community. We're calling our substack Beyond Betrayal, 11 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: a place where we dive deeper into the stories you 12 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: hear on this show. Please consider joining our community to 13 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: gain access to exclusive content, engage with me and subjects, 14 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: as well as connect with others who have experienced betrayal. 15 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: Just head to Betrayal dot substack that's sub stack, or 16 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: just go to substack dot com, search b Beyond Betrayal 17 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: and hit subscribe. 18 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 2: He would come into my bedroom and say he was 19 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 2: clearing the house, but I'm sleeping in bed and I 20 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 2: have a gun in a flashlight in my face. He 21 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 2: just played by different rules, and everyone just accepted that. 22 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, Season four, Episode seven, 23 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: The Golden Few. Every week, our team at Betrayal receives 24 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: dozens of emails from people devastated by infidelity, stories of 25 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: betrayal that are painful and deeply personal, and we read 26 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: every single one. We hear stories of people abusing their 27 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: power as teachers, doctors, and lawyers. But when we got 28 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: the email from Caroline Barrega, we knew that this was 29 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: more than a personal betrayal to her and her family. 30 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: If you were the victim of a violent crime and 31 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: called nine one one in crisis, think about who you 32 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: would want to respond to your call. Joel's actions aren't 33 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: the most egregious case of police misconduct we can find, 34 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: far from it. But it's an everyday case of an 35 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: officer abusing his power, lying about it, an escaping termination. 36 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: That's what resonated with us. Think about it. Our entire 37 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: justice system relies on the integrity and character of cops. 38 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 3: As President Obama described police officers, they are the tips 39 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 3: on the spears of a societal order. 40 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: That's Will Ahison, a lawyer who's worked with police unions, 41 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: for decades. You heard from him in the last episode. 42 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: He says, our society depends upon the trust we place 43 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: in the police. 44 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 3: We get police officers responsibility. We tell them, you're going 45 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 3: to have the authority to deprive somebody of their liberty 46 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 3: by arresting them. You're going to have the ability, under 47 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 3: circumstances to use force against them, to take them into custody, 48 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 3: and under rare circumstances to use deadly force. That responsibility 49 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 3: that we give police officers demands one hundred percent truthfulness 50 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 3: on the part of the police officer, no question about it. 51 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: We talked to another expert, former Maryland State Police Major 52 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: Neil Franklin. He works on issues surrounding policing all over 53 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: the country. He agreed that truthfulness needs to be a 54 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: core value of all officers. 55 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 4: We need to be about telling the truth because a 56 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 4: critical job function that we have is testifying in court. 57 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: Just about every case in our legal system, from a 58 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: traffic citation to a murder trial, relies on the word 59 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,559 Speaker 1: of cops, and when a police officer's character is called 60 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: into question, entire cases fall apart. Just think of the 61 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: OJ Simpson trial when the lead detective used racial slurs 62 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: and then lied about it. It threw his credibility into question. 63 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: Or the Karen Reid trial in Boston, where the lead 64 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: investigator was caught sending highly inappropriate messages about the defendant. 65 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: The fact that each of these cops couldn't be trusted 66 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: undermined the prosecution's entire case. If you can't trust cops, 67 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,239 Speaker 1: you have no rule of law. 68 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 4: If you cannot testify in court, you don't have that 69 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 4: level of integrity. You can't perform an essential job function, 70 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 4: can't be police officer, at least that's my perspective on it. 71 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 1: Honesty, integrity, and high moral character are job requirements for 72 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 1: police officers, but does the culture really reflect that. At 73 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: the Colorado Springs Police Department, we met a civilian employee 74 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: who recently retired from CSPD. Will call her Barb. She 75 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: shared a story that gave more insight into how things 76 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: worked at the department and into Joel Kern's connections, and 77 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 1: we've distorted her voice to protect her privacy. 78 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 5: So I heard this rumor that Joel had been having 79 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 5: an affair with someone from DHS, which I believe is 80 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 5: a Department of Human Services. That was the rumor, and 81 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 5: I was like, I don't think so. Because I had 82 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:47,919 Speaker 5: seen him around his family. I was like, he can't 83 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 5: be that kind of a dog. Kind of bothered me. 84 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: To be clear, what really upset this former CSPD employee, 85 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: Barb was that someone was spreading rumors about a married 86 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: and respected officer at work. She thought it was careless 87 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: at best, damaging at worst. 88 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 2: She wanted to shut it down. 89 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 5: So I went to my chain of command and I said, hey, 90 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,119 Speaker 5: you know, this really bothers me. This is what i've heard, 91 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 5: and it's just can't be right. Well, he turns around 92 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 5: and calls Joel. 93 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 2: Her boss. 94 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: Didn't even ask who was spreading the rumor. Her reason 95 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: for reporting it was to stop harmful gossip. 96 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 5: I was expecting some kind of reassurance that Okay, this 97 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 5: is not cool and it's not right. I didn't get that. 98 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 5: He actually spoke very disparagingly about Caroline. He's like, oh, 99 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 5: she's going to have him buy the balls, and you 100 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 5: know she's going to lose her mind and she's going 101 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 5: to take the house, this, that and the other, and 102 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 5: you know she's such a bitch. And I'm like, okay, 103 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 5: I guess the few times I've seen or I didn't 104 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 5: pick up on that. 105 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: Barb was completely taken aback at her supervisor's response. He 106 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: wasn't interested in shutting down the rumor just justifying it. 107 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: She had originally been trying to protect Joel, a man 108 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: she saw as one of the good ones. 109 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 5: No, I'd got right on the phone and called Joel, 110 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 5: who then the next time I saw him wanted to 111 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 5: kill me, just in the looks I got. 112 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: Barb didn't know what to make of it all, her 113 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: boss's reaction, the sudden shift in tone. Joel, whom she 114 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: had once liked and respected, now treated her with cold hostility. 115 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: Then something happened with a female colleague, a friend of Barb's. 116 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: Joel started sending her sexually suggestive texts. 117 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 5: He texted her, and she looked up and was like, no, No, 118 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 5: there'll be none of that. So I'm like, Okay, he 119 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 5: thinks that you're vulnerable, and you're going to show him 120 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 5: that you're not, which I'm thankful that she did. In 121 00:07:58,080 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 5: her name has never come up in any of this stuff. 122 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 5: She was uncomfortable by it, and I think that she 123 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 5: was a little bit closer to the positions of power 124 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 5: than I was, so she may have already understood things 125 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 5: were going on that I was not privy to. 126 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: This incident made Barb look at Joel's treatment towards her 127 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: and a whole new light. Maybe the rumors about Joel 128 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: weren't rumors at all. Looking back now, she can't help 129 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: but wonder if he became cold to her because she 130 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: was on to him. Through our reporting, we uncovered even 131 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: more allegations of misconduct within the Colorado Springs Police Department. 132 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: It revealed a culture, one that doesn't just allow for 133 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: bad behavior to occur. It's a culture where good officers 134 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: may find themselves sidelined, and those who bend the truth 135 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: don't seem to face the consequences you'd expect. 136 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 6: The culture at CSPD is exceptionally toxic, and the toxicity 137 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 6: is all about the people in charge. 138 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 2: That's John. 139 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: He is one of the few individuals with inside knowledge 140 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: of the CSPD who was willing to speak on the record. 141 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: We offered him the option to use a pseudonym for 142 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: his protection, but he didn't want it. 143 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 6: I'm fine with John. I was there for twelve years. 144 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 6: I don't care that they know who I am. 145 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: John isn't just a former CSPD officer. He's a thirty 146 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: year military veteran who rose to the rank of colonel. 147 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: After a tour in Iraq, he returned home determined to 148 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 1: serve his community. He says, it's the same intention most 149 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: officers come in with. 150 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,599 Speaker 6: If you sat in on interviews with potential police candidates, 151 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:44,719 Speaker 6: every single one of them is going to tell you 152 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 6: something along the lines of I want to help people. 153 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: But when John started at CSPD, he quickly realized that 154 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: the department was not what he expected. 155 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 6: The folks at CSPD get promoted based on whether or 156 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 6: not they play golf with the chief. You know, it's 157 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 6: about It's all about me, if I'm in, if I'm 158 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 6: a sergeant or above. It's all about what how can 159 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 6: I use this position for myself. 160 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: John's first indication that something was wrong came during a crisis. 161 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 6: We had an event where a colleague of mine, a 162 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 6: friend and a colleague, was killed in the line of 163 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 6: duty and a motorcycle crash. 164 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: The officer's name was Matt Tyner. 165 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,599 Speaker 6: Matt was actually one of my instructors in the academy, 166 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 6: and he was one of those guys that I would 167 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 6: reach out to for mentorship and advice, and how would 168 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 6: you handle this? Because I knew what he told me 169 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,319 Speaker 6: was going to be solid. He was also a man 170 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 6: of impeccable integrity and character. 171 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, having a hard time talking about. 172 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 6: It, but he's the kind of cop that I wanted 173 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 6: to be. 174 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: Matt was in pursuit of a suspect when he was killed. 175 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: Cops know there's a risk every time they respond to 176 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: a call. Any shift could be their last. Still, Matt's 177 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: death hit John hard. It was devastating, and the way 178 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: he found out his mentor had been killed made it 179 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: even worse. 180 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 6: I found out about it on Facebook. Somebody on the 181 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 6: scene used their phone to take a video of this 182 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 6: and posted it. He actually was alive for about forty 183 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 6: five minutes and he suffered terribly, And that's how Matt's 184 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 6: family found out about it through social media. They watched 185 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 6: their loved one suffer. I was absolutely incensed because in 186 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 6: the Army we've been dealing with this for two decades. 187 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: John knew there was a better way to shield a 188 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: fallen officer's family. He'd seen what worked in the Army. 189 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 1: That's when he offered a solution. 190 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 6: They could manage a notification process so that Matt's family 191 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 6: hears from the department before they start seeing things on 192 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 6: social media. So I voiced my opinion through an email 193 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 6: to my sergeant, and I asked for it to be 194 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 6: escalated so that they would start taking this into account. 195 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: He went through the chain of command, but his suggestion 196 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: was taken. 197 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 2: As an insult. 198 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 6: The next day, I was called into the commander's office 199 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 6: and given the knife hand and yelled at about knowing 200 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 6: my place. My place was to answer the radio calls. 201 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 6: That process still has not been adopted or even considered, 202 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 6: because the idea came from a lowly line level worker 203 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 6: rather than somebody who is in a management role. It's like, 204 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 6: you know, I may have some expertise in this arena 205 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 6: that you could take advantage of, but if it doesn't 206 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 6: come from one of them, it's not a good idea. 207 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: It was a rude awakening. As the years went on, 208 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: his concerns only grew. During his tenure at CSPD, John 209 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 1: spent several years as a DUI officer. These officers receive 210 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: special training, assist with fatal accident and work to stop 211 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: impaired drivers. DUI officers carry the weight of protecting lives 212 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: every day. 213 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 6: There are more people being killed by drunk drivers than 214 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,439 Speaker 6: there are from homicide. 215 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 1: The city is divided into patrol divisions and there are 216 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: two duy officers in each. When John joined the division, 217 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 1: his counterpart was a legend officer, Glenn Thomas, a name 218 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: everyone knew in DUI enforcement. 219 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 6: He was known locally as the DUI God. He was 220 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 6: the guy he arrested the most. 221 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: Everyone we spoke to told us about Glenn's charisma and charm. 222 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: He's a big personality. 223 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 6: Glenn Thomas is currently a sergeant, and at the time 224 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 6: I worked with him, we were both police officer first 225 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 6: class and we were both signed to the DUI enforcement 226 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 6: unit in Sand Creek. 227 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: Glenn had the highest DUI arrest record in the state 228 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 1: of Colorado. 229 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 2: For years. 230 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: He was the best and one moremultiple wards and honors. 231 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 6: I was making a lot of arrests. I ended up 232 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 6: being number two in the state. He beat me by 233 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:09,839 Speaker 6: I think around one hundred arrests. 234 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 1: At first, he may think, Wow, Colorado Springs must be 235 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: the safest place to drive in the country, but the 236 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: real story is more complicated. Like Joel Kern, Glenn Thomas 237 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: was up to no good and the department knew for years, 238 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: long before his alleged crimes became public. John first started 239 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: to question Glenn's methods when another officer confided in him. 240 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 6: What he told me was that he made a traffic stop. 241 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 6: He thinks the guy's impaired, calls for a DIUI officer. 242 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 6: Glenn comes over and without talking to the driver, writes 243 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 6: down that he refused any kind of testing, serves him 244 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,239 Speaker 6: as a refusal, and then leaves. 245 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: This was a serious allegation, and we don't have any 246 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: way of confirming this beyond John's word. 247 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 2: But it all came to a head. 248 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: John will get to that when an officer suspects there 249 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: is a drunk or a pair driver, he calls the 250 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: DUI officer. That officer goes to the scene to make 251 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: an assessment. Why on earth would a DUI officer lie 252 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: about engaging with the driver. Well, John has a theory. 253 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 6: I think it was all about speed, so he could 254 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 6: get more in one shift rather than having to worry 255 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 6: about the technicalities of it. 256 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: John wondered, was this how Glenn had so many more 257 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: DUI arrests than any other officer in the state. Was 258 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: he taking shortcuts? It didn't sit right with John. 259 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 6: He and I immediately began butting heads. 260 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: But according to John, he wasn't the only one who 261 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: took issue with Glenn's behavior. For example, there was an 262 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: instance when John was called into court to testify about 263 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: a dui investigation. It was a routine part of the job, 264 00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: but on this occasion. 265 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 6: I testified in court and the defense attorney caught me 266 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 6: outside the hallway afterwards, and he said, I just wanted 267 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 6: to let you know you're a great witness. I can't 268 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 6: find any way to impeach your credibility, and then he 269 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 6: followed up with You're way better than that Glenn Thomas. Guy, 270 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 6: he's a liar and I'm going to get in one 271 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 6: of these days. And two other cops were nearby and 272 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 6: they heard that statement. 273 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: Word got back to Glenn. 274 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 6: He took that as me attacking him, even though I 275 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 6: didn't make any statements. Next thing you know, I'm being 276 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 6: called into internal affairs, and the accusation was that I 277 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 6: was conducting an investigation against Glenn. I'm not investigating anything. 278 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 6: I'm being interrogated by my own department for potential wrongdoing. 279 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: John couldn't wrap his head around it. He was in 280 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: the hot seat, when, according to John, it was Glenn who. 281 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 2: Was up to no good. 282 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: So in the midst of being questioned by internal Affairs, 283 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: John made the decision to share his concerns about Glenn. 284 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 6: I sat there for three hours and outlined all the 285 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 6: different things that people had told me, and I said, 286 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 6: I haven't followed up on any of this stuff, but 287 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 6: since you guys now know about it, I think you 288 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 6: have to. So they opened an investigation, and I have 289 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 6: never been privy to the investigation. 290 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: So there were now two internal affairs investigations, one for 291 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: John into whether he was going after Glenn Thomas and 292 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: one into Glenn himself. John's allegations were supposedly investigated, and 293 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: as far as John knows, they were deemed unfounded. 294 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 6: At the end, we get sat down in a room 295 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 6: with all the command staff. Basically I was blamed for 296 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 6: the whole thing. They said, you know, Glenn made paperwork 297 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 6: errors because he does so many DUIs, and so we're 298 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 6: going to chalk that up to administrative error. And I'm like, 299 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 6: if you show up and you know you didn't talk 300 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 6: to the guy and you wrote down that he was 301 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 6: a refusal, that's a lie. That's not an Administrative Air. 302 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: CSPD denied our request for these IA investigations, so we 303 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: don't know for sure what evidence was weighed in exonerating Glenn. 304 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 2: What we do know is this. 305 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: John was genuinely concerned about Glenn's behavior, and when he 306 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: tried to bring those concerns to CSPD, he was shut 307 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: down hard. 308 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 2: And John thinks he knows why. 309 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 6: Glenn Thomas was allowed to get away with lying because 310 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 6: he's friends with everybody. People connect with him very readily, 311 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 6: so he uses that to deceive people or manipulate people. 312 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 4: And this is the. 313 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: Theme Glenn Thomas continued as the DUI god. John felt 314 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: like Glenn was a walking liability and a liar. John 315 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: may have been one of the first people to call 316 00:18:53,920 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 1: out Thomas's bad behavior, but he wasn't the last. Glenn Thomas, 317 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: the Colorado Springs d UI god, is currently awaiting trial 318 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: for intimidating a ten year old witness and for violating 319 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: a protection order. In the course of our reporting, we 320 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: met someone who knows Glenn well, his ex wife, Sarah, 321 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: herself a former CSPD officer. Sarah acknowledged that Glenn had 322 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: a real talent for duy enforcement. 323 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:50,239 Speaker 2: It's everything to him, like that's his identity. Honestly, in 324 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 2: my opinion, he was proud of the awards that he got, 325 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 2: like he just knew how to do that job so well. 326 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: But Sarah recognized that Glenn was be able to get 327 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: away with things other cops couldn't. 328 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 2: He just played by different rules and everyone just accepted that. 329 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,439 Speaker 2: He would say things on the radio that were really 330 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 2: really inappropriate, and then he wouldn't get in trouble for 331 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 2: any of it. Everyone would just laugh. 332 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,719 Speaker 1: He was the class clown. He could be crude and 333 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: it was all deemed acceptable. Sarah and Glenn Thomas had 334 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: three daughters together, and for several years they were a 335 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: good team. 336 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 2: The first ten years of our marriage, he still continued 337 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 2: to be very charming. He's very funny. I mean there 338 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 2: was ups and downs. I think until he got on 339 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 2: a car wreck and hurt his back, and then I 340 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 2: think it was like between the pain and then he 341 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 2: got on payments, and I think between the two, like 342 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 2: he kind of just very very drastically changed. 343 00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: Those changes included behaving violently towards her and their children. 344 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 2: There were times that he hit me, there were times 345 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 2: that he threw me across the room in front of 346 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 2: the kids. 347 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: Sarah said Glenn could be controlling and at times terrifying. 348 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 2: After we were not sharing a bedroom anymore, he'd come 349 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 2: home at five am and come into my bedroom and 350 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 2: he would say he was clearing the house. But like, 351 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 2: I'm sleeping in bed and I have a gun in 352 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 2: a flashlight in my face. 353 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 1: Sarah told us about one incident that was particularly alarming. 354 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 2: We weren't allowed to lock doors, and we were in 355 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 2: an argument, and I went into the bathroom and like, 356 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 2: it sounds so silly, but the door got locked. I 357 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 2: didn't even lock it, and he kicked the door in 358 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 2: and hit me with the door. 359 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: Their three daughters were also affected by his behavior, especially 360 00:21:59,480 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: their eldest. 361 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 2: I witnessed it, the other girls witnessed it, but he 362 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 2: put a chip clip on her breast, and so she 363 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 2: started crying. 364 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: In divorce proceedings, Glenn claimed he often put chip clips 365 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: on his family member's clothes in good fun. 366 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 2: It was a game to him. 367 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: The incident with his daughter was an accident, and he apologized. 368 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: At the time, Sarah tried to diffuse the conflict. 369 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 2: I kind of just separated them and tried to calm 370 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 2: the situation down. 371 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: Her daughter was fourteen at the time. Glenn's behavior was bizarre. 372 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: That was in addition to the physical violence Sarah experienced 373 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,880 Speaker 1: at his hands. So this all begs the question why 374 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,959 Speaker 1: didn't Sarah go to the police. After all, she was 375 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: a former officer at CSPD. 376 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,439 Speaker 2: I knew what his relationship was with the department. I 377 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 2: just didn't feel like I would be taken seriously even 378 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 2: if I went to them. I did not feel like 379 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 2: there would be any consequences for him, which then would 380 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 2: most likely make things very, very, very much worse for 381 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 2: me and my children. 382 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: It's a risk a lot of survivors of domestic violence 383 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: way out would reporting make things worse, more dangerous, and 384 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: in Sarah's case, she'd be reporting her husband to his 385 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: own buddies. So for years she stayed silent and stayed 386 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: in the marriage, hoping things would change. But then in 387 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 1: the fall of twenty twenty one, something happened that pushed 388 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 1: Sarah to act. 389 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 2: My oldest came to me and basically said, I don't 390 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 2: trust you anymore. You're not protecting us, like I don't 391 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 2: know why you're not leaving him. And she basically told me, 392 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 2: you need to leave him, or he's going to end 393 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 2: up killing you and us two. 394 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: That was the moment everything changed. 395 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 2: And then I talked to my other two. I was like, 396 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 2: do you guys feel the same way? And they both 397 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 2: were like, definitely, you need to get out. 398 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: So she did keep in mind this was a police 399 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: officer they were escaping from. 400 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 2: And I called the divorce attorney that day because I 401 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 2: didn't really have that concept of what they were going through. 402 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: They moved into a safehouse provided by Tessa, a Colorado 403 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: Springs organization that helps those experiencing domestic violence. 404 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 2: That was just a really hard thing to go through, 405 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 2: leaving your kid's bedrooms. It was hard for all of 406 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 2: us to not have a space and not know what 407 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 2: was coming next, and that uncertainty of where we were 408 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 2: even going to be laying our heads down. 409 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,400 Speaker 1: And once she and the kids were safe, they started 410 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: to talk about Len's behavior. Things were worse than Sarah knew. 411 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: Her eldest daughter brought up the incident with the chip clip. 412 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 2: She said that he kind of was targeting her. It 413 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 2: wasn't an isolated incident and he was doing it multiple times. 414 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: It was then that Sarah decided to report Glenn to 415 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: the CSPD. She spoke to the domestic violin sergeant and 416 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: her initial concerns about not being taken seriously by the 417 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: department were validated. 418 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 2: The conversation I had with the sergeant of the V 419 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 2: unit made me feel gross. He was telling me how 420 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 2: we need to just figure out a way to get along, 421 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 2: and that was the initial call for this, and like, oh, yeah, 422 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 2: I know there's been a lot of incidents back and 423 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 2: forth between you. No, there hasn't. He has been victimizing us, period. 424 00:25:58,720 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 2: But she did feel. 425 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: Supported by the officers who were eventually assigned to investigate 426 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: the case. 427 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 2: I felt like they did do a really, really thorough 428 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 2: fantastic job investigating it, and they ended up going back 429 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 2: kind of investigating everything. So that's really when everything came 430 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 2: out to CSPD that this is kind of what I 431 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 2: have been going through, my kids have been going through. 432 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 3: This. 433 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 2: Detective sergeant and the detective felt like they had reached 434 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 2: the level of probable cause for domestic violence charges, and 435 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 2: so they were told by their lieutenant that they needed 436 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 2: to refer it to the DA's office at the time, 437 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 2: rather they just arrest as per statute they were required 438 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 2: to do to the DA. 439 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: Glenn wasn't just any cop. They depended on him regularly. 440 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,360 Speaker 1: He frequently testified in cases for the DA's office, and 441 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 1: that wasn't all. 442 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 2: That day that they referred it to the DA's office. 443 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 2: He was training the DA's in DUIs like he's physically 444 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 2: at their location. They get this case against him, and unsurprisingly, 445 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 2: they declined to prosecute. 446 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: When asked for comment on this claim, the DA said 447 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: there was insufficient evidence available to prosecute. Sarah points out 448 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 1: that even if the DA wasn't intentionally protecting Glenn, there 449 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: was a conflict of interest here. How could the DA 450 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,160 Speaker 1: be impartial in a decision to prosecute someone they work 451 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:35,120 Speaker 1: with so closely. 452 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 2: The right thing to do would have been for them 453 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 2: to refer it to a special prosecutor, but they did it. 454 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: I wondered what would have happened if Glenn hadn't been 455 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: a CSPD police officer, or hadn't been so close with 456 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: the DA. 457 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:57,199 Speaker 2: One hundred percent, he would have been arrested. It wouldn't 458 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 2: have been a hesitation, it would have been right away. 459 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,640 Speaker 1: After the DA declined to prosecute, Sarah continued to fight 460 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: for something to be done in her divorce proceedings, a 461 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 1: judge reviewed Glenn's behavior. She cited examples like the chip 462 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: clip incident to be quote inappropriate and uncomfortable, and when 463 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: it came to Glenn's treatment of Sarah, specifically the day 464 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: when Glenn kicked down the bathroom door, the judge was 465 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: clear this was domestic violence. She gave Sarah full custody 466 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 1: of their two oldest daughters. Glenn was only allowed to 467 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: have limited contact with the youngest daughter. This judgment came 468 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: down in Fall twenty twenty two, nearly three years ago. 469 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: At the time, it felt validating to Sarah. A judge 470 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: saw what Glenn was capable of and took action to 471 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: protect Sarah's kids. But this was all in family court, 472 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: not criminal, so Glenn was still allowed to wear the 473 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: badge and carry a gun. Sarah felt like it was 474 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: important to file a complaint with Internal Affairs. 475 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 2: Then IA gets the case to see if he violated 476 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 2: any policies. 477 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: This was no longer about whether Glenn broke state or 478 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: federal laws. There would be no criminal charges. Now it 479 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: was a question of whether Glenn broke the department's rules. 480 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: And remember, Sarah had been a cop, she knew domestic 481 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: violence went against policy. Perhaps internal affairs would bring her 482 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: some sense of justice. 483 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 2: If they think that there's any evidence that shows that 484 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 2: he has either broken the law or violated policy, then 485 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 2: they have a lot more ability to take action and 486 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 2: make it so he's not in that position of power 487 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 2: anymore and being a police officer. So I really did 488 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 2: think that it was going to be okay because of 489 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 2: the IA investigation. 490 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: Eight months after she the case with IA, Sarah received 491 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: a letter. 492 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 2: It was from CSPD. 493 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: It read, in part, after reviewing the case, it was 494 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: determined that the acts you complained of were justified, legal proper, 495 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: and adhered to department policy. 496 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 2: It was he was exonerated. It didn't happen. 497 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: This was the same department that found probable cause to 498 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: send this case to the DA. They knew that Sarah, 499 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: their former employee, had moved her children to a safe house, 500 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: and now they had a family court judge's findings in 501 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: hand that said Glenn Thomas had committed domestic violence. But 502 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: somehow Glenn's actions were justified, legal proper, and adhered to 503 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: department policy. And while we're talking policy, we took a 504 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: look at the employee Handbook, Section four hundred, the one 505 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: Glenn was exonerated on says officers must live by the 506 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: Law Enforcement. 507 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 2: Code of Ethics. 508 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: They take an oath. It reads in part, as a 509 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: law enforcement officer, my fundamental duty is to serve humankind, 510 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: to safeguard lives and property, to protect the innocent against deception, 511 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: the weak against oppression or intimidation, and the peaceful against 512 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,959 Speaker 1: violence or disorder. While performing my duties, I will maintain 513 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: courageous calm in the face of danger, develop self restraint, 514 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: be truthful, and be constantly mindful. 515 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 2: Of the welfare of others. 516 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: Sarah was hurt by the department's failure to discipline Glen. 517 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: She had hoped her history at the CSPD would temper 518 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: the favoritism he so often received. 519 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 2: The disappointing part to me was that d. C. Emonson 520 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 2: signed off on it and Chief Asquez signed off on it. 521 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 2: Like d. C. Edmondson was one of my trainers in 522 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 2: the academy and Chief Asquez was my sergeant for years 523 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 2: in Dea, So I felt like there might be less 524 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 2: bias towards one or the other of us because I 525 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 2: knew these people really well too. But it definitely diffirms 526 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 2: my belief that Glenn Thomas in particular has a very 527 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 2: very special position at CSPD. 528 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: So what line would Glenn have to cross in order 529 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: to lose favor with the department. At the heart of 530 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: this season is one question, how was Joel Kern able 531 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: to do what he did to betray his family, his colleagues, 532 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: and his community for so long. During our reporting, we've 533 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: learned that Joel wasn't the only officer who knew he 534 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: could get away with misconduct. This was a culture problem, 535 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: not an isolated case. We've heard from former staff that 536 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: there are certain employees who are untouchable, protected by the 537 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: badge and by the brass. These are people who don't 538 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: fear consequences because if you're one of the golden few, 539 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 1: there are no consequences. Following Glenn Thomas's exoneration in his 540 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: IA case, Sarah tried to move forward. She focused on 541 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: her job and her kids, but Glenn was still a 542 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: part of her family's life. By court order, he had 543 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: limited custody of their ten year old daughter. Two years 544 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: into this arrangement, in October twenty twenty four, their daughter 545 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: confided in her therapist. She said her dad had touched 546 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: her inappropriately. 547 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:12,359 Speaker 2: Her therapist reported to DHS. DHS reported to Woodland Park PD. 548 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 2: Woodland Park PD opened an investigation on it. 549 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: Glenn lived in Woodland Park. It's a small town about 550 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: thirty minutes outside of Colorado Springs, but the Woodland Park 551 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: Police Department was a different ball field. Glenn didn't work 552 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: for them. They asked him to come in for an 553 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:35,279 Speaker 1: interview to explain his actions. He denied the allegations, and 554 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: then he did something unthinkable. 555 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,720 Speaker 2: He just went to my daughter's school and confronted her 556 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,320 Speaker 2: and told her that she's a liar. 557 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 1: He may have been fueled by anger or distress, but 558 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: before the confrontation Glenn had the presence of mind to 559 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: call CSPD colleagues for advice. 560 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 2: He called two different people within the department who specifically 561 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 2: told him do not go to her school on his 562 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:11,240 Speaker 2: way down there. So, yeah, he was looking for support 563 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 2: and affirmation on what he was doing, and he didn't 564 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 2: get it, and he still went. 565 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,240 Speaker 1: Later, at an emergency custody hearing, he changed the story, 566 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: claiming a commander told Glenn he should go down to 567 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: his daughter's school. These emergency proceedings were happening in parallel 568 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 1: to Glenn's criminal case, and at this emergency hearing. 569 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 2: On the stand, he said that this commander had told 570 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 2: him he should go to the school and talk to 571 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,959 Speaker 2: because he was supposed to have visitation the next day, 572 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 2: and so he was like, she told me I should 573 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 2: go and get a witness and like smooth things over 574 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 2: with her so that then we could have a good 575 00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 2: visitation like the next day. In fact, what happened is 576 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,399 Speaker 2: the person that he mentioned had told him do not go, 577 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 2: wait for things to shake out, like don't push it, 578 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 2: just don't go, but for sure, don't go to the school. 579 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 1: He lied on the stand, and he put blame on 580 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: the CSPD. It was at this hearing that Glenn's visitation 581 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: rights were taken away, but perhaps this was also a 582 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: turning point in Glenn's relationship with CSPD. Glenn Thomas was 583 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: starting to seem less like an asset and more like 584 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: a liability to the department, especially once the news got 585 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: a hold of the story. 586 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 7: We have an eleven breaking news Elert just into our newsroom. 587 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,400 Speaker 7: We just learned that a Colorado Springs police officer is 588 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:44,240 Speaker 7: now under arrest. 589 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 4: He was accused of inappropriate sexual contact with a miner 590 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 4: in Woodland Park. 591 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 6: Thomas later confronted the alleged victim at school about those accusations, 592 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,800 Speaker 6: telling the miner to change the story. 593 00:36:56,239 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 7: Sergeant Thomas is accused of violating a protection order and 594 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 7: intimidating the victim in volm. 595 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 4: Thomas is assigned to the Duy Unit and was taken 596 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,280 Speaker 4: into custody earlier today. 597 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,320 Speaker 1: Because of the lies Thomas told in the emergency hearing, 598 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 1: the DA put him on the Brady List. It's a 599 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 1: list of police officers who have lied, falsified evidence, or 600 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:23,239 Speaker 1: committed other misconduct anything that would undermine their credibility as 601 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: a witness. The DA has to notify opposing counsel anytime 602 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 1: they use an officer from the Brady List as a witness. 603 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: In other words, Thomas is now marked as a liar 604 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:40,879 Speaker 1: in the courts. As for the criminal charges, Glenn has 605 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,760 Speaker 1: to go to trial and could even receive prison time. 606 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,879 Speaker 1: The Woodland Park PD dropped the sexual assault charge they 607 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: couldn't find the evidence they needed to make the charge stick, 608 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 1: but the intimidation of a minor witness and the violation of. 609 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 2: A protection order. 610 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 1: Those charges were in Colorado's Brings jurisdiction due to the 611 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: location of the daughter's school, and this time finally CSPD 612 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 1: took the allegation seriously. Glenn Thomas's trial is set for 613 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: the end of July, but until then he still remains 614 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 1: employed at CSPD and he can continue to testifying cases 615 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 1: for the DA. We ask the DA directly about whether 616 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: they'll be putting Glenn on the stand, knowing what they 617 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: know now. They responded, quote, we can't speculate on this topic. 618 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,240 Speaker 1: We can only confirm mister Thomas is on the Brady 619 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 1: List and that his appearance at this time on the 620 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 1: Brady List would not recluite him from participating as a 621 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:47,760 Speaker 1: witness in court. So why are we telling you about 622 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 1: Glenn Thomas Because there are clear similarities with Joel Kern's case. 623 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: Both have long standing ties to the CSPD, both operated 624 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 1: by their own rules, and in each case, someone put 625 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,760 Speaker 1: themselves on the line to raise a red flag, warning 626 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: the department that these men couldn't be trusted, but they 627 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,440 Speaker 1: still wore the badge. We asked Major Franklin, who we 628 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: heard from at the top of the episode, about these dynamics. 629 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:21,359 Speaker 4: We're supposed to be a profession that is trusted so 630 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 4: we should begin within our own ranks developing a very 631 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 4: high level of integrity. But we've developed this stop snitching, 632 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:38,759 Speaker 4: don't snitch on your peers, and it's a culture that 633 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:45,759 Speaker 4: I don't think has changed over many, many, many many decades. 634 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,439 Speaker 1: As a former coop himself, Major Franklin can see how 635 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: this culture has sustained itself for so long. 636 00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 4: One of the main reasons is the camaraderie. We've done 637 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 4: a very good job in policing of isolating ourselves from 638 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:10,399 Speaker 4: community at large. You know, we go to police barbecues 639 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,400 Speaker 4: and primarily the folks who are at the police barbecues 640 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 4: are police officers and immediate family members. Weddings is the 641 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,720 Speaker 4: same way. If you really examine many of the wedding 642 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 4: parties for police officers, they are police officers and the 643 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,400 Speaker 4: wedding parties. So we've done a very good job of 644 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 4: isolating ourselves this closely knit group of cops. The culture 645 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 4: in the street is that they back each other up 646 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:38,839 Speaker 4: no matter what for the most part. 647 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,360 Speaker 1: In our last episode, we also introduced you to Claudia Aldrich. 648 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 1: She runs the Police Officer's Whistleblower Network. Her social media 649 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,799 Speaker 1: posts call out the CSPD for what she sees as 650 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:55,239 Speaker 1: massive hypocrisy. She says there's no benefit to reporting a 651 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: fellow officer for misconduct. 652 00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 4: Who is going to want to do that? 653 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 2: Is doing that puts their career on a big red spot. 654 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 1: Major Franklin says he has seen employees step up to 655 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:10,920 Speaker 1: try and stop rumors and corruption. 656 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,680 Speaker 4: They will report, but you know what, many of them 657 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:15,880 Speaker 4: have paid the price for it. 658 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,760 Speaker 1: Former CSPD officer John was one of them. His efforts 659 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: to raise red flags and create meaningful change at CSPD 660 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: were met with frustration and even outright anger by those 661 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 1: in leadership, and eventually he got tired of fighting. 662 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 6: I finally had come to the realization that I wasn't 663 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,920 Speaker 6: going to make a difference at CSPD. I couldn't make 664 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 6: any changes. I was never going to get into a 665 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:41,840 Speaker 6: position where I could affect change. 666 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 1: The culture at CSPD prevails. It's a culture that's driven 667 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,840 Speaker 1: out stand up public servants like John, and it seems 668 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 1: like he isn't alone. A local news station was able 669 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,160 Speaker 1: to get a hold of an employee morale survey. It 670 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 1: was given by the Colorado Springs Police Protective Association back 671 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, it painted a bleak picture. 672 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 5: A new question in the twenty twenty three survey version 673 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 5: asked if these sworn staff members were considering leaving CSPD 674 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,799 Speaker 5: within the next five years, sixty three percent saying yes. 675 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 1: John recalls Joel Kern's feelings on morale when they work together. 676 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 6: So, at first, Joel Kern was somebody that I could 677 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,080 Speaker 6: look up to and trust, and he was very skilled 678 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,840 Speaker 6: in that arena of investigation. And then as time went on, 679 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:40,160 Speaker 6: things really really started to change. Kern would say things like, 680 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,960 Speaker 6: morale is a personal problem. And from a guy with 681 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,560 Speaker 6: a management master's degree, I will tell you that one 682 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,680 Speaker 6: person with a morale problem is a personal problem. But 683 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,720 Speaker 6: when it's systemic across an organization, that's a leadership problem. 684 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,280 Speaker 6: And that was the mantra that the brass kept saying. 685 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,200 Speaker 6: If the morale here is, that's your fault. 686 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:06,400 Speaker 1: John's experiences proved that not everyone at CSPD agrees with 687 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,879 Speaker 1: its culture. There are officers currently on the force who 688 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: are disillusioned with how the department disciplines its employees. I 689 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,799 Speaker 1: wondered if the dedicated CSPD investigators who tried to help 690 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,480 Speaker 1: Sarah and she first reported Glenn were among those that 691 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 1: wanted out of the job. Here's Sarah again. 692 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,200 Speaker 2: When I brought the case to them, I gave them 693 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 2: that disclosure that nothing is going to happen to him, 694 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,520 Speaker 2: like I told them, and they both were like, he 695 00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 2: shouldn't be an exception, he shouldn't be protected. This should 696 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:50,560 Speaker 2: be just any normal case. And honestly, I think that 697 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,400 Speaker 2: when they found out he wasn't going to be prosecuted, 698 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:59,160 Speaker 2: it seemed like they were pretty upset about it. It 699 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,279 Speaker 2: felt like they were kind of betrayed along with me. 700 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,720 Speaker 1: In the end, the department lets Sarah down. 701 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,560 Speaker 2: I have so much knowledge and so much experience and 702 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 2: so much information about how the criminal justice system works 703 00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:19,920 Speaker 2: and how CSPD works and who is who and navigating 704 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 2: all of these situations would be impossible without that. So again, 705 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:32,920 Speaker 2: I'm heartbroken for the people that are victims and don't 706 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 2: have my special set of skills and knowledge and information. 707 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:42,680 Speaker 2: If it hadn't been for some of that information, again, 708 00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,160 Speaker 2: he would be getting away with all of it. 709 00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,480 Speaker 1: Here's former CSPD employee Barbigan. 710 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,040 Speaker 5: If you have no integratory in your personal life, why 711 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,799 Speaker 5: would you have integrity in your public life? If you 712 00:44:54,880 --> 00:45:00,000 Speaker 5: will lie about little stuff, you'll lie about big stuff. 713 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,560 Speaker 5: If you lie about big stuff, you'll lie about bigger stuff. 714 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,080 Speaker 1: It makes us wonder how many Joel Kerns and Glenn 715 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:16,400 Speaker 1: Thomas's there are right now getting away with potentially criminal 716 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,680 Speaker 1: behavior because their friends on the force are protecting them. 717 00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:24,640 Speaker 1: How many officers have had serious reports of misconduct swept 718 00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:28,680 Speaker 1: under the rug. How many have had internal affairs investigations 719 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:33,920 Speaker 1: closed without consequence. We'll give the final word to Major Franklin. 720 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,960 Speaker 4: We work for you as citizens, and we are to 721 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:44,879 Speaker 4: provide a service. We take enough to protect people's constitutional rights, 722 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:51,520 Speaker 4: and we are one of a very few number of 723 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:57,120 Speaker 4: people occupations in this country who have the ability and 724 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,839 Speaker 4: right to take your liberty away from you at any 725 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:05,879 Speaker 4: given second. I want someone who is going to set 726 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:09,440 Speaker 4: the example for their behavior, because they're going to be 727 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:14,440 Speaker 4: interacting with me, my kids, my grandkids, my nieces, my nephews, 728 00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,800 Speaker 4: my relatives, my friends. I'm not asking you to be saints. 729 00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:22,000 Speaker 4: I'm asking you to have integrity. I'm asking you to 730 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,959 Speaker 4: value your position. I'm asking you to raise the level 731 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,840 Speaker 4: of professionalism within your craft. I'm asking you to be 732 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:29,400 Speaker 4: the best. 733 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:36,759 Speaker 1: That's all on the next episode of Betrayal, we go 734 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 1: back to Caroline's story and we hear about her healing journey. 735 00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,839 Speaker 8: No one blames the wife or the spouse or a 736 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:47,640 Speaker 8: partner for someone's heroin addiction, except for someone's gambling addiction. 737 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:54,200 Speaker 8: It's just in this realm of infidelities where there seems 738 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:58,600 Speaker 8: to be this really strong focus on the betrayed partner. 739 00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,239 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Betrayal season four. If you 740 00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,520 Speaker 1: would like to reach out to the Betrayal team, email 741 00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,960 Speaker 1: us at Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal 742 00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:16,560 Speaker 1: Pod at gmail dot com. Also, please be sure to 743 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:20,480 Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod and me Andrea 744 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,080 Speaker 1: Hgunning for all Betrayal content news and updates. One way 745 00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,399 Speaker 1: to support the series is by subscribing to our show 746 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:30,560 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. Please rate and review Betrayal five star 747 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,800 Speaker 1: reviews help us know you appreciate what we do. Betrayal 748 00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,920 Speaker 1: is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass 749 00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:42,080 Speaker 1: Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is 750 00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:46,080 Speaker 1: executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason. Betrayal is 751 00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,480 Speaker 1: hosted and produced by me Andrea Gunning written and produced 752 00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:53,880 Speaker 1: by Kerrie Hartman, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate 753 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:58,080 Speaker 1: producers are Caitlin Golden and Kristin Melcuri. Our iHeart team 754 00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 1: is Ali Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Story editing by Monique Leboard, 755 00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,600 Speaker 1: audio editing and mixing by Matt del Vecchio, editing by 756 00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,200 Speaker 1: Tanner Robbins and Special Things to Caroline and her Family. 757 00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:14,920 Speaker 1: Betrayal's theme is composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided 758 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,239 Speaker 1: by Mind Music and For more podcasts from iHeart, visit 759 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:22,839 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts,