1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: Hey guys. Before we dive into the episode, we have 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: exciting news. Betrayal is coming to substack, which is an 3 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: online community. We're calling our substack Beyond Betrayal, a place 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: where we dive deeper into the stories you hear on 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: this show. Please consider joining our community to gain access 6 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: to exclusive content, engage with me and subjects, as well 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: as connect with others who have experienced betrayal. Just head 8 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: to Betrayal dot substack that's sub stack, or just go 9 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:38,599 Speaker 1: to substack dot com, search beyond Betrayal and hit subscribe. 10 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 2: He would come into my bedroom and say he was 11 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 2: clearing the house, but I'm sleeping in bed and I 12 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 2: have a gun in a flashlight in my face. He 13 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 2: just played by different rules and everyone just accepted that. 14 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, Season four, episode seven, 15 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 1: The Golden Few. Every week, our team at Betrayal receives 16 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: dozens of emails from people devastated by infidelity, stories of 17 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,839 Speaker 1: betrayal that are painful and deeply personal, and we read 18 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: every single one. We hear stories of people abusing their 19 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: power as teachers, doctors, and lawyers. But when we got 20 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: the email from Caroline Barega. We knew that this was 21 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: more than a personal betrayal to her and her family. 22 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: If you were the victim of a violent crime and 23 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: called nine one one in crisis, think about who you 24 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: would want to respond to your call. Joel's actions aren't 25 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: the most egregious case of police misconduct we can find, 26 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: far from it. But it's an everyday case of an 27 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: officer abusing his power, lying about it, an escaping termination. 28 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:19,959 Speaker 1: That's what resonated with us. Think about it. Our entire 29 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: justice system relies on the integrity and character of cops. 30 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 3: As President Obama described police officers, they are the tips 31 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 3: on the spears of a societal order. 32 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: That's Will Ahison, a lawyer who's worked with police unions 33 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: for decades. You heard from him in the last episode. 34 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: He says, our society depends upon the trust we place 35 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: in the police. 36 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 3: We get police officers responsibility. We tell them you're going 37 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 3: to have the authority to deprive somebody of their liberty 38 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 3: by arresting them. You're going to have the ability, under 39 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 3: circumstances to use force against them, to take them into custody, 40 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 3: and under rare circumstances, to use deadly force. That responsibility 41 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 3: that we give police officers demands one hundred percent truthfulness 42 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 3: on the part of the police officer, no question about it. 43 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: We talk to another expert, former Maryland State Police Major 44 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: Neil Franklin. He works on issues surrounding policing all over 45 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: the country. He agreed that truthfulness needs to be a 46 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: core value of all officers. 47 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 4: We need to be about telling the truth because a 48 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 4: critical job function that we have is testifying in court. 49 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: Just about every case in our legal system, from a 50 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: traffic citation to a murder trial, relies on the word 51 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: of cops, and when a police officer's character is called 52 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: into question, entire cases fall apart. Just think of the 53 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: OJS trial when the lead detective used racial slurs and 54 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: then lied about it. It threw his credibility into question. 55 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: Or the Karen Reid trial in Boston, where the lead 56 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: investigator was caught sending highly inappropriate messages about the defendant. 57 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: The fact that each of these cops couldn't be trusted 58 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: undermined the prosecution's entire case. If you can't trust cops, 59 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 1: you have no rule of law. 60 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 4: If you cannot testify in court, you don't have that 61 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 4: level of integrity. You can't perform an essential job function, 62 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 4: so you can't be police officer. At least that's my 63 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 4: perspective on it. 64 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: Honesty, integrity, and high moral character are job requirements for 65 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: police officers, but does the culture really reflect that. At 66 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: the Colorado Springs Police Department, we met a civilian employee 67 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: who recently retired from CSPD. Will call her Barb. She 68 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: shared a story that gave more insight into how things 69 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 1: worked at the department and into Joel Kern's connections, and 70 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: we've distorted her voice to protect her privacy. 71 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 5: So I heard this rumor that Joel had been having 72 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 5: an affair with someone from DHS, which I believe is 73 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 5: a Department of Human Services. That was the rumor, and 74 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 5: I was like, I don't think so, because I had 75 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 5: seen him around his family. I was like, he can't 76 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 5: be that kind of a dog. And it bothered me. 77 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: To be clear, what really upset this former CSPD employee, Barb, 78 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: was that someone was spreading rumors about a married and 79 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: respected officer at work. 80 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 2: She thought it was. 81 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: Careless at best, damaging at worst. She wanted to shut 82 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: it down. 83 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 5: So I went to my chain of command and I said, hey, 84 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 5: you know, this really bothers me. This is what I've heard, 85 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 5: and it's just can't be right. Well, he turns around 86 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 5: and calls Joel. 87 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: Her boss didn't even ask who was spreading the rumor. 88 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,239 Speaker 1: Her reason for reporting it was to stop harmful gossip. 89 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 5: I was expecting some kind of reassurance that, Okay, this 90 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 5: is not cool and it's not right. I didn't get that. 91 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 5: He actually spoke very disparagingly about Caroline. He's like, Oh, 92 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 5: she's going to have him buy the balls, and you 93 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 5: know she's going to lose her mind and she's going 94 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 5: to take the house, this, that and the other, and 95 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 5: you know, she's such a bitch. And I'm like, okay, 96 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 5: I guess the few times I've seen or I didn't 97 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 5: pick up on that. 98 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 1: Barb was completely taken aback at her supervisor's response. He 99 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: wasn't interested in shutting down the rumor, just justifying it. 100 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 1: She had originally been trying to protect Joel, a man 101 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: she saw as one of the good ones. 102 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 5: No, I got right on the phone and called Joel, 103 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 5: who then the next time I saw him, wanted to 104 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 5: kill me. Just in the looks I got. 105 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: Barb didn't know what to make of it all her 106 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 1: boss's reaction, the sudden shift in tone. Joel, whom she 107 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: had once liked and respected, now treated her with cold hostility. 108 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: Then something happened with a female colleague, a friend of Barb's. 109 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: Joel started sending her sexually suggestive texts. 110 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 5: He texted her, and she looked up and was like, no, no, 111 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 5: there will be none of that. So I'm like, Okay, 112 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 5: he thinks that you're vulnerable, and you're going to show 113 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 5: him that you're not, which I'm thankful that she did. 114 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 5: In her name has never come up in any of 115 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 5: this stuff. She was uncomfortable by it, and I think 116 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 5: that she was a little bit closer to the positions 117 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 5: of power than I was, so she may have already 118 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 5: understood things were going on that I was not privy to. 119 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: This incident made Barb look at Joel's treatment towards her 120 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: and a whole new light. Maybe the rumors about Joel 121 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: weren't rumors at all. Looking back now, she can't help 122 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: but wonder if he became cold to her because she 123 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: was on to him. Through our reporting, we uncovered even 124 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: more allegations of misconduct within the Colorado Springs Police Department. 125 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: It revealed a culture, one that doesn't just allow for 126 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: bad behavior to occur. It's a culture where good officers 127 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: may find themselves sidelined, and those who bend the truth 128 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: don't seem to face the consequences you'd expect. 129 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 6: The culture at CSPD is exceptionally toxic, and the toxicity 130 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 6: is all about the people in charge. 131 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: That's John. He is one of the few individuals with 132 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: inside knowledge of the CSPD who was willing to speak 133 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: on the record. We offered him the option to use 134 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: a pseudonym for his protection, but he didn't want it. 135 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 6: I'm fine with John. I was there for twelve years. 136 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 6: I don't care that they know who I am. 137 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: John isn't just a former CSPD officer. He's a thirty 138 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: year military veteran who rose to the rank of colonel. 139 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 1: After a tour in Iraq, he returned home determined to 140 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: serve his community. He says, it's the same intention most 141 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 1: officers come in with. 142 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 6: If you sat in on interviews with potential police candidates, 143 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 6: every single one of them is going to tell you 144 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 6: something along the lines of I want to help people. 145 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: But when John started at CSPD, he quickly realized that 146 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: the department was not what he expected. 147 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 6: The folks at CSPD get promoted based on whether or 148 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 6: not they play golf with the chief. You know, it's 149 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 6: about It's all about me, if I'm in, if I'm 150 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 6: a sergeant or above, It's all about what how can 151 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 6: I use this position for myself. 152 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:48,599 Speaker 1: John's first indication that something was wrong came during a crisis. 153 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 6: We had an event where a colleague of mine, a 154 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 6: friend and a colleague, was killed in the line of 155 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 6: duty and a motorcycle crash. 156 00:09:57,920 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: The officer's name was Matt Tyner. 157 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 6: Matt was actually one of my instructors in the academy, 158 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 6: and he was one of those guys that I would 159 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 6: reach out to for mentorship and advice and how would 160 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 6: you handle this? Because I knew what he told me 161 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,719 Speaker 6: was going to be solid. He was also a man 162 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 6: of impeccable integrity and character. Yeah, having a hard time 163 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 6: talking about it, but he's the kind of cop that 164 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 6: I wanted to be. 165 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: Matt was in pursuit of a suspect when he was killed. 166 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: Cops know there's a risk every time they respond to 167 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: a call. Any shift could be their last. Still, Matt's 168 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: death hit John hard. It was devastating, and the way 169 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: he found out his mentor had been killed made it 170 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: even worse. 171 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 6: I found out about it on Facebook. Somebody on the 172 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 6: scene used their phone to take a video of this 173 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 6: and posted it. He actually was alive for about forty 174 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 6: five minutes and he suffered terribly, and that's how Matt's 175 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 6: family found out about it through social media. They watched 176 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 6: their loved one suffer. I was absolutely incensed because in 177 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 6: the Army, we've been dealing with this for two decades. 178 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: John knew there was a better way to shield a 179 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,439 Speaker 1: fallen officer's family. He'd seen what worked in the army. 180 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: That's when he offered a solution. 181 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 6: They could manage a notification process so that Matt's family 182 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 6: hears from the department before they start seeing things on 183 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 6: social media. So I voiced my opinion through an email 184 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 6: to my sergeant, and I asked for it to be 185 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 6: escalated so that they would start taking this into account. 186 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: He went through the chain of command, but his suggestion 187 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: was taken as an insult. 188 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 6: The next day, I was called into the commander's office 189 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 6: and given the knife hand and yelled at about knowing 190 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 6: my place, my place was to answer the radio calls. 191 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 6: That process still has not been adopted or even considered, 192 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 6: because the idea came from a lowly line level worker 193 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 6: rather than somebody who is in a management role. It's like, 194 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 6: you know, I may have some expertise in this arena 195 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 6: that you could take advantage of, but if it doesn't 196 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 6: come from one of them, it's not a good idea. 197 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: It was a rude awakening. As the years went on, 198 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: his concerns only grew. During his tenure at CSPD, John 199 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: spent several years as a DUI officer. These officers receive 200 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: special training, assist with fatal accidents, and work to stop 201 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: impaired drivers. DUI officers carry the weight of protecting lives 202 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: every day. 203 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 6: There are more people being killed by drunk drivers than 204 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 6: there are from homicide. 205 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 1: The city is divided into patrol divisions and there are 206 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: two DUI officers in each. When John joined the division, 207 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: his counterpart was a legend officer, Glenn Thomas, a name 208 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: everyone knew in DUI enforcement. 209 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 6: He was known locally as the dui God. He was 210 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 6: the guy he arrested the most. 211 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: Everyone we spoke to told us about Glenn's charisma and charm. 212 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: He's a big personality. 213 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 6: Glenn Thomas is currently a sergeant, and at the time 214 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 6: I worked with him, we were both police officer first 215 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 6: class and we were both signed to the DUI enforcement 216 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 6: unit in Sand Creek. 217 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 1: Glenn had the highest DUI arrest record in the state 218 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: of Colorado. For years. He was the best and won 219 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: multiple awards and honors. 220 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 6: I was making a lot of arrests, signed up being 221 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 6: number two in the state. He beat me by I 222 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 6: think around one hundred arrests. 223 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: At first, you may think, wow, Colorado Springs must be 224 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: the safest place to drive in the country, but the 225 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: real story is more complicated. Like Joel Kern, Glenn Thomas 226 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 1: was up to no good and the department knew for years, 227 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: long before his alleged crimes became public. John first started 228 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: to question Glenn's methods when another officer confided in him. 229 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 6: What he told me was that he made a traffic stop. 230 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 6: He thinks the guy's impaired, calls for a DUI officer. 231 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 6: Glenn comes over and without talking to the driver, writes 232 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 6: down that he refused any kind of testing, serves him 233 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 6: as a refusal, and then leaves. 234 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: This was a serious allegation, and we don't have any 235 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: way of confirming this beyond John's word. But it all 236 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: came to a head. John. We'll get to that. When 237 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: an officer suspects there is a drunk or an pair driver, 238 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: he calls the DUI officer. That officer goes to the 239 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: scene to make an assessment. Why on earth would a 240 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: DUI officer lie about engaging with the driver. Well, John 241 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: has a theory. 242 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 6: I think it was all about speed, so he could 243 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 6: get more in one shift rather than having to worry 244 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 6: about the technicalities of it. 245 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: John wondered, was this whole Glenn had so many more 246 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: DUI arrests than any other officer in the state. Was 247 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: he taking shortcuts? It didn't sit right with John. 248 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 6: He and I immediately began butting heads. 249 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: But according to John, he wasn't the only one who 250 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: took issue with Glenn's behavior. For example, there was an 251 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: instance when John was called into court to testify about 252 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: a DUI investigation. It was a routine part of the job, 253 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: but on this occasion. 254 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 6: I testified in court and the defense attorney caught me 255 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 6: outside the hallway afterwards, and he said, I just wanted 256 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 6: to let you know you're a great witness. I can't 257 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 6: find any way to impeach your credibility. And then he 258 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 6: followed up with you're way better than that Glenn Thomas guy, 259 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 6: he's a liar and I'm going to get in one 260 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 6: of these days. And two other cops were nearby and 261 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 6: they heard that statement. 262 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: Word got back to Glenn. 263 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 6: He took that as me attacking him, even though I 264 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 6: didn't make any statements. Next thing you know, I'm being 265 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 6: called into internal affairs, and the accusation was that I 266 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 6: was conducting an investigation against Glenn. I'm not investigating anything. 267 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 6: I'm being interrogated by my own department for potential wrongdoing. 268 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: John couldn't wrap his head around it. He was in 269 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: the hot seat when, according to John, it was Glenn 270 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: who was up to no good. So in the midst 271 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: of being questioned by internal Affairs, John made the decision 272 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: to share his concerns about Glenn. 273 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 6: I sat there for three hours and outlined all the 274 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 6: different things that people had told me, and I said, 275 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 6: I haven't followed up on any of this stuff, but 276 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 6: since you guys now know about it, I think you 277 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 6: have to. So they opened an investigation and I have 278 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 6: never been privy to the investigation so. 279 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 1: Well, there were now two internal affairs investigations, one for 280 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,959 Speaker 1: John into whether he was going after Glenn Thomas, and 281 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 1: one into Glenn himself. John's allegations were supposedly investigated, and 282 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: as far as John knows, they were deemed unfounded. 283 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 6: At the end, we get sat down in a room 284 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 6: with all the command staff. Basically I was blamed for 285 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 6: the whole thing. They said, you know, Glenn made paperwork 286 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 6: errors because he does so many DUIs, and so we're 287 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 6: going to chalk that up to administrative error. And I'm like, 288 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 6: if you show up and you know you didn't talk 289 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 6: to the guy and you wrote down that he was 290 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 6: a refusal, that's a lie. That's not an administrative air. 291 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: CSPD denied our request for these IA investigations, so we 292 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: don't know for sure what evidence was weighed in exonerating Glenn. 293 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: What we do know is this John was genuinely concerned 294 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: about Glenn's behavior, and when he tried to bring those 295 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: concerns to CESPD, he was shut down hard. And John 296 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: thinks he knows why. 297 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 6: Glenn Thomas was allowed to get away with lying because 298 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 6: he's friends with everybody. People connect with him very readily, 299 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 6: so he uses that to deceive people or manipulate people. 300 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: And this is the theme Glenn Thomas continued as the 301 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: DUI god. John felt like Glenn was a walking liability 302 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: and a liar. John may have been one of the 303 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 1: first people to call out Thomas' bad behavior, but he 304 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: wasn't the last. Glenn Thomas, the Colorado Springs d UI God, 305 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: is currently awaiting trial for intimidating a ten year old 306 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: witness and for violating a protection order. In the course 307 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: of our reporting, we met someone who knows Glenn well, 308 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: his ex wife, Sarah, herself a former CSPD officer. Sarah 309 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: acknowledged that Glenn had a real talent for duy enforcement. 310 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 2: It's everything to him, like that's his identity. Honestly, in 311 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 2: my opinion, he was proud of the awards that he got, 312 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 2: like he just knew how to do that job so well. 313 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: But Sarah recognized that Glenn was able to get away 314 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: with things other cops couldn't. 315 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 2: He just played by different rules and everyone just accepted that. 316 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 2: He would say things on the radio that were really 317 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 2: really inappropriate and then he wouldn't get in trouble for 318 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 2: any of it. Everyone would just laugh. 319 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: He was the class clown. He could be crude and 320 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: it was all deemed acceptable. Glenn Thomas had three daughters together, 321 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: and for several years they were a good team. 322 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 2: The first ten years of our marriage, he still continued 323 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 2: to be very charming. He's very funny. I mean there 324 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 2: was ups and downs. I think until he got on 325 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,719 Speaker 2: a car wreck and hurt his back, and then I 326 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 2: think it was like between the pain and then he 327 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 2: got on payments, and I think between the two like 328 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 2: he kind of just very, very drastically changed. 329 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: Those changes included behaving violently towards her and their children. 330 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 2: There were times that he hit me. There were times 331 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 2: that he threw me across the room in front of 332 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 2: the kids. 333 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: Sarah said Glenn could be controlling and at times terrifying. 334 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 2: After we were not sharing a bedroom anymore, he'd come 335 00:20:54,880 --> 00:21:00,040 Speaker 2: home at five am and come into my bedroom and 336 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 2: he would say he was clearing the house, but like, 337 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 2: I'm sleeping in bed and I have a gun in 338 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 2: a flashlight in my face. 339 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: Sarah told us about one incident that was particularly alarming. 340 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 2: We weren't allowed to lock doors, and we were in 341 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 2: an argument and I went into the bathroom and like, 342 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 2: it sounds so silly, but the door got locked. I 343 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 2: didn't even lock it, and he kicked the door in 344 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 2: and hit me with the door. 345 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: Their three daughters were also affected by his behavior, especially 346 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: their eldest. 347 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 2: I witnessed it, the other girls witnessed it, but he 348 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 2: put a chip clip on her breast and so she 349 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 2: started crying. 350 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: In divorce proceedings, Glenn claimed he often put chip clips 351 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: on his family member's clothes in good fun. It was 352 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: a game to him. The incident with his daughter was 353 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: an accident, and he apologized. At the time, Sarah tried 354 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: to diffuse the conflict. 355 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 2: I kind of just separated them and tried to calm 356 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 2: the situation down. 357 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 1: Her daughter was fourteen at the time. Glenn's behavior was bizarre. 358 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 1: That was in addition to the physical violence Sarah experienced 359 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: at his hands. So this all begs the question why 360 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: didn't Sarah go to the police. After all, she was 361 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: a former officer at CSPD. 362 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 2: I knew what his relationship was with the department. I 363 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 2: just didn't feel like I would be taken seriously even 364 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 2: if I went to them, I did not feel like 365 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 2: there would be any consequences for him, which then would 366 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 2: most likely make things very, very, very much worse for 367 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 2: me and my children. 368 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: It's a risk a lot of survivors of domestic violence 369 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: way out would reporting make things worse, more dangerous, and 370 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: in Sarah's case, she'd be reporting her husband to his 371 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 1: own buddies. So for years she stayed silent and stayed 372 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 1: in the marriage, hoping things would change. But then in 373 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: the fall of twenty twenty one, something happened that pushed 374 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: Sarah to act. 375 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 2: My oldest came to me and basically said, I don't 376 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 2: trust you anymore. You're not protecting us, Like, I don't 377 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 2: know why you're not leaving him, And she basically told 378 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 2: me you need to leave him or he's gonna end 379 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 2: up killing you and us two. 380 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: That was the moment everything changed. 381 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 2: And then I talked to my other two. I was like, 382 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 2: do you guys feel the same way, and they both 383 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 2: were like, definitely, you need to get out. 384 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: So she did. Keep in mind this was a police 385 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: officer they were escaping from. 386 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 2: And I called the divorce attorney that day because I 387 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 2: didn't really have that concept of what they were going through. 388 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 1: They moved into a safehouse provided by Tessa, a Colorado 389 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: Springs organization that helps those experiencing domestic violence. 390 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 2: That was just a really hard thing to go through, 391 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 2: leaving your kid's bedrooms. It was hard for all of 392 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,919 Speaker 2: us to not have a space and not know what 393 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 2: was coming next, and that uncertainty of where we were 394 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 2: even going to be laying our heads down. 395 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: And once she and the kids were safe, they started 396 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: to talk about Glenn's behavior. Things were worse than Sarah knew. 397 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: Her eldest daughter brought up the incident with the chip clip. 398 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 2: She said that he kind of was targeting her. It 399 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 2: wasn't an isolated incident, and he was doing it multiple times. 400 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 1: It was then that Sarah decided to report Glenn to 401 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,880 Speaker 1: the CSPD. She spoke to them filn sergeant and her 402 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: initial concerns about not being taken seriously by the department 403 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: were validated. 404 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 2: The conversation I had with the sergeant of the DV 405 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 2: unit made me feel gross. He was telling me how 406 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 2: we need to just figure out a way to get 407 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 2: along and that was the initial call for this, And like, oh, yeah, 408 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 2: I know there's been a lot of incidents back and 409 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 2: forth between you. No, there hasn't. He has been victimizing us, period. 410 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: But she did feel supported by the officers who were 411 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: eventually assigned to investigate the case. 412 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 2: I felt like they did do a really, really thorough 413 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 2: fantastic job investigating it, and they ended up going back 414 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 2: kind of investigating everything. So that's really when everything came 415 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 2: out to CSPD that this is kind of what I 416 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 2: have been going through, my kids have been going through. This. 417 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 2: Detective sergeant and the detective felt like they had reached 418 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 2: the level of probable cause for domestic violence charges, and 419 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 2: so they were told by their lieutenant that they needed 420 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 2: to refer it to the DA's office at the time, 421 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 2: rather they just arrest as per statute they were required 422 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 2: to do to the DA. 423 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 1: Glenn wasn't just any cop. They depended on him regularly. 424 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,719 Speaker 1: He frequently testified in cases for the DA's office. And 425 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 1: that wasn't all. 426 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 2: That day that they referred it to the DA's office. 427 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 2: He was training the DA's office in DUIs, like he's 428 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 2: physically at their location. They get this case against him, 429 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 2: and unsurprisingly they declined to prosecute. 430 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: When asked for comment on this claim, the DA said 431 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: there was insufficient evidence available to prosecute Sarah points out 432 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: that even if the DA wasn't intentionally protecting Glenn, there 433 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 1: was a conflict of interest here. How could the DA 434 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: be impartial in a decision to prosecute someone they work 435 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: with so closely. 436 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 2: The right thing to do would have been for them 437 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 2: to refer it to a special prosecutor, but they did it. 438 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: I wondered what would have happened if Glenn hadn't been 439 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: a CSPD police officer or hadn't been so close with 440 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: the DA. 441 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 2: One hundred percent, he would have been arrested. It wouldn't 442 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 2: have been a hesitation. It would have been right away. 443 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: After the DA declined to prosecute, Sarah continued to fight 444 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 1: for something to be done. In her divorce proceedings, a 445 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: judge reviewed Glenn's behavior. She cited examples like the chip 446 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 1: clip incident to be quote inappropriate and uncomfortable, and when 447 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: it came to Glenn's treatment of Sarah, specifically the day 448 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: when Glenn kicked down the bathroom door or the judge 449 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 1: was clear this was domestic violence. She gave Sarah full 450 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: custody of their two oldest daughters. Glenn was only allowed 451 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: to have limited contact with the youngest daughter. This judgment 452 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 1: came down in Fall twenty twenty two, nearly three years ago. 453 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 1: At the time, it felt validating to Sarah. A judge 454 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: saw what Glenn was capable of and took action to 455 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: protect Sarah's kids. But this was all in family court, 456 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 1: not criminal, so Glenn was still allowed to wear the 457 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: badge and carry a gun. Sarah felt like it was 458 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: important to file a complaint with Internal Affairs. 459 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 2: Then IA gets the case to see if he violated 460 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 2: any policies. 461 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: This was no longer about whether Glenn broke state or 462 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: federal laws. There would be no criminal charges. Now it 463 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: was a question of whether Glenn broke the department's rules. 464 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: And remember, Sarah had been a cop, she knew domestic 465 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: violence went against policy. Perhaps Internal Affairs would bring her 466 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,959 Speaker 1: some sense of justice. 467 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 2: If they think that there's any evidence that shows that 468 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 2: he has either broken the law or violated policy, then 469 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 2: they have a lot more ability to take action and 470 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 2: make it so he's not in that position of power 471 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 2: anymore and being a police officer, so I really did 472 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 2: think that it was going to be okay because of 473 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 2: the IA investigation. 474 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: Eight months after she filed the case with IA, Sarah 475 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: received a letter. It was from CSPD. It read, in part, 476 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: after reviewing the case, it was determined that the acts 477 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: you complained of were justified, legal proper, and adhered to 478 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: department policy. 479 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 2: It was he was exonerated. It didn't happen. 480 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: This was the same department that found probable cause to 481 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: send this case to the DA. They knew that Sarah, 482 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: their former employee, had moved her children to a safe house, 483 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: and now they had a family court judge's findings in 484 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: hand that said Glenn Thomas had committed domestic violence. But 485 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: somehow Glenn's actions were justified, legal proper, and adhere to 486 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: department policy. And while we're talking policy, we took a 487 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: look at the Employee Handbook. Section four hundred, the one 488 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: Glenn was exonerated on, says officers must live by the 489 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: Law Enforcement Code of Ethics. They take an oath. It 490 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: reads in part, As a law enforcement officer, my fundamental 491 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: duty is to serve humankind, to safeguard lives and property, 492 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: to protect the innocent against deception, the weak against oppression 493 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: or intimidation, and the peaceful against violence, or to while 494 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: performing my duties, I will maintain courageous calm in the 495 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: face of danger, develop self restraint, be truthful, and be 496 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: constantly mindful of the welfare of others. Sarah was hurt 497 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: by the department's failure to discipline Glenn. She had hoped 498 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: her history at the CSPD would temper the favoritism he 499 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: so often received. 500 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 2: The disappointing part to me was that d C. Edmondson 501 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 2: signed off on it and Chiefasquez signed off on it. 502 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 3: Like d C. 503 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 2: Edmondson was one of my trainers in the academy and 504 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 2: Chief Fasquez was my sergeant for years in Dea, So 505 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 2: I felt like there might be less bias towards one 506 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 2: or the other of us because I knew these people 507 00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 2: really well too. But it definitely diffirms my I believe 508 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 2: that Glenn Thomas in particular has a very very special position. 509 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 2: It's CSPD. 510 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: So what line would Glenn have to cross in order 511 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: to lose favor with the department. At the heart of 512 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: this season is one question. How was Joel Kern able 513 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 1: to do what he did to betray his family, his colleagues, 514 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: and his community for so long? During our reporting, we've 515 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: learned that Joel wasn't the only officer who knew he 516 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: could get away with misconduct. This was a culture problem, 517 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: not an isolated case. We've heard from former staff that 518 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: there are certain employees who are untouchable, protected by the 519 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: badge and by the brass. These are people who don't 520 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: fear consequences because if you're one of the golden few, 521 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: there are no consequences. Following Glenn Thomas's exoneration in his 522 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: IA case, Sarah tried to move forward. She focused on 523 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: her job and her kids, but Glenn was still a 524 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: part of her family's life. By court order, he had 525 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: limited custody of their ten year old daughter. Two years 526 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: into this arrangement, in October twenty twenty four, their daughter 527 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: confided in her therapist. She said her dad had touched 528 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: her inappropriately. 529 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 2: Her therapist reported to DHS. DHS reported to Woodland Park PD. 530 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 2: Woodland Park PD opened an investigation on it. Glenn lived 531 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 2: in Woodland Park. 532 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: It's a small town about thirty minutes outside of Colorado Springs, 533 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: but the Woodland Park Police Department was a different ball field. 534 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: Glenn didn't work for them. They asked him to come 535 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: in for an interview to explain his actions. He denied 536 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: the allegations, and then he did something unthinkable. 537 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 2: He just went to my daughter's school and confronted her 538 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 2: and told her that she's a liar. 539 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: He may have been fueled by anger or distress, but 540 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: before the confrontation, Glenn had the presence of mind to 541 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,240 Speaker 1: call CSPD colleagues for advice. 542 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 2: He called two different people within the department who specifically 543 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 2: told him do not go to her school on his 544 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 2: way down there. So, yeah, he was looking for support 545 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 2: and affirmation on what he was doing, and he didn't 546 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 2: get it, and he still went. 547 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 1: Later, at an emergency custody hearing, he changed the story, 548 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: claiming a command told Glenn he should go down to 549 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,840 Speaker 1: his daughter's school. These emergency proceedings were happening in parallel 550 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: to Glenn's criminal case, and at this emergency hearing. 551 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 2: On the stand, he said that this commander had told 552 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 2: him he should go to the school and talk to 553 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 2: because he was supposed to have visitation the next day, 554 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,320 Speaker 2: and so he was like, she told me I should 555 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 2: go and get a witness and like smooth things over 556 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 2: with her so that then we could have a good 557 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 2: visitation like the next day. In fact, what happened is 558 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 2: the person that he mentioned had told him do not go. 559 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 2: Wait for things to shake out, like don't push it, 560 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 2: just don't go, but for sure, don't go to the school. 561 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: He lied on the stand and he put blame on 562 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,880 Speaker 1: the CESPD. It was at this hearing that Glenn's visitation 563 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: rights were taken away, but perhaps this was also a 564 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: turning point in Glenn's relationship with CSPD. Glenn Thomas was 565 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 1: starting to seem less like an asset and more like 566 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 1: a liability to the department, especially once the news got 567 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 1: a hold of the story. We have an eleven breaking 568 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 1: news alert just into our newsroom. 569 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 2: We just learned that a Colorado Springs police officer is 570 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 2: now under arrest. 571 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 4: He was accused of inappropriate sexual contact with a minor 572 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:24,319 Speaker 4: in Woodland Park. 573 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: Thomas later confronted the alleged victim at school about those accusations, 574 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: telling the miner to change the story. 575 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,799 Speaker 2: Sergeant Thomas is accused of violating a protection order and 576 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 2: intimidating the victim involved. 577 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 5: Thomas is assigned to the Duy Unit and was taken 578 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 5: into custody earlier today. 579 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,720 Speaker 1: Because of the lies Thomas told in the emergency hearing, 580 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 1: the DA put him on the Brady List. It's a 581 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,320 Speaker 1: list of police officers who have lied, falsified evidence, or 582 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: committed other misconduct anything that would undermine their credibility as 583 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: a witnesses. The DA has to notify opposing counsel any 584 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 1: time they use an officer from the Brady List as 585 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: a witness. In other words, Thomas is now marked as 586 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: a liar in the courts. As for the criminal charges, 587 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 1: Glenn has to go to trial and could even receive 588 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,240 Speaker 1: prison time. The Woodland Park PD dropped the sexual assault 589 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,839 Speaker 1: charge they couldn't find the evidence they needed to make 590 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,760 Speaker 1: the charge stick, but the intimidation of a minor witness 591 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,399 Speaker 1: and the violation of a protection order. Those charges were 592 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,319 Speaker 1: in Colorado Springs jurisdiction due to the location of the 593 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:45,400 Speaker 1: daughter's school, and this time finally CSPD took the allegation seriously. 594 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 1: Glenn Thomas's trial is set for the end of July, 595 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 1: but until then he still remains employed at CSPD and 596 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 1: he can continue to testifying cases for the DA. We 597 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 1: asked the DA director about whether they'll be putting Glenn 598 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: on the stand, knowing what they know now. They responded, quote, 599 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 1: we can't speculate on this topic. We can only confirm 600 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 1: mister Thomas is on the Brady List, and that his 601 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,239 Speaker 1: appearance at this time on the Brady List would not 602 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:22,719 Speaker 1: preclude him from participating as a witness in court. So 603 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,440 Speaker 1: why are we telling you about Glenn Thomas Because there 604 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: are clear similarities with Joel Kern's case. Both had long 605 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:35,800 Speaker 1: standing ties to the CSPD, both operated by their own rules, 606 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,720 Speaker 1: and in each case, someone put themselves on the line 607 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:43,399 Speaker 1: to raise a red flag, warning the department that these 608 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: men couldn't be trusted, but they still wore the badge. 609 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: We asked Major Franklin, who we heard from at the 610 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,360 Speaker 1: top of the episode, about these dynamics. 611 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,759 Speaker 4: We're supposed to be a profession that is trusted, so 612 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 4: we should begin within our own ranks developing a very 613 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 4: high level of integrity. But we've developed this stop snitching, 614 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 4: don't snitch on your peers, and it's a culture that 615 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 4: I don't think has changed over many, many, many many decades. 616 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,839 Speaker 1: As a former cop himself, Major Franklin can see how 617 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: this culture has sustained itself for so long. 618 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,360 Speaker 4: One of the main reasons is the camaraderie. We have 619 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 4: done a very good job in policing of isolating ourselves 620 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 4: from community at large. You know, we go to police 621 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 4: barbecues and primarily the folks who are at the police 622 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 4: barbecues are police officers and immediate family members. Weddings is 623 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,719 Speaker 4: the same way. If you really examine many of the 624 00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:00,840 Speaker 4: wedding parties for police officers, they are police officer and 625 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 4: the wedding parties. So we've done a very good job 626 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:09,319 Speaker 4: of isolating ourselves this closely knit group of cops. The 627 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,359 Speaker 4: culture in the street is that they back each other 628 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,239 Speaker 4: up no matter what for the most part. 629 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,759 Speaker 1: In our last episode, we also introduced you to Claudia Aldrich. 630 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,880 Speaker 1: She runs the Police Officer's Whistleblower Network. Her social media 631 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: posts call out the CSPD for what she sees as 632 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: massive hypocrisy. She says there's no benefit to reporting a 633 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,840 Speaker 1: fellow officer for misconduct. 634 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,920 Speaker 2: Who is going to want to do that because doing 635 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 2: that puts their career on a big red spot. 636 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 1: Major Franklin says he has seen employees step up to 637 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,320 Speaker 1: try and stop rumers and corruption. 638 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 4: They will report, but you know what, many of them 639 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,279 Speaker 4: have paid the price for it. 640 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: Former CSPD officer John was one of them. His efforts 641 00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: to raise red flags and create meaningful change at ESPD 642 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: were met with frustration and even outright anger by those 643 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,880 Speaker 1: in leadership, and eventually he got tired of fighting. 644 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 6: I finally had come to the realization that I wasn't 645 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 6: going to make a difference at CSPD. I couldn't make 646 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,440 Speaker 6: any changes. I was never going to get into a 647 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,240 Speaker 6: position where I could affect change. 648 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:22,480 Speaker 1: The culture at CSPD prevails. It's a culture that's driven 649 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,240 Speaker 1: out stand up public servants like John, and it seems 650 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 1: like he isn't alone. A local news station was able 651 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: to get a hold of an employee morale survey. It 652 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,359 Speaker 1: was given by the Colorado Springs Police Protective Association back 653 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three. It painted a bleak picture. 654 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 5: A new question in the twenty twenty three survey version 655 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,640 Speaker 5: asked if these sworn staff members were considering leaving CSPD 656 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 5: within the next five years, sixty three percent saying yes. 657 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,960 Speaker 1: John recalls Joel Kern's feelings on morale when they work together. 658 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 6: So at first, Joel Kern was somebody that I could 659 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 6: look up to and trust, and he was very skilled 660 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,239 Speaker 6: in that arena of investigation. And then as time went on, 661 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 6: things really really started to change. Kern would say things like, 662 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,360 Speaker 6: morale is a personal problem, and from a guy with 663 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,960 Speaker 6: a management master's degree, I will tell you that one 664 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,080 Speaker 6: person with a morale problem is a personal problem, but 665 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:31,160 Speaker 6: when it's systemic across an organization, that's a leadership problem. 666 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,680 Speaker 6: And that was the mantra that the brass kept saying. 667 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 6: If the morale here is poor, that's your fault. 668 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:42,640 Speaker 1: John's experience has proved that not everyone at CSPD agrees 669 00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,840 Speaker 1: with its culture. There are officers currently on the force 670 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:51,040 Speaker 1: who are disillusioned with how the department disciplines its employees. 671 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 1: I wondered if the dedicated CSPD investigators who tried to 672 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,680 Speaker 1: help Sarah and she first reported Glenn were among those 673 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 1: that it out of the job. Here's Sarah again. 674 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 2: When I brought the case to them, I gave them 675 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 2: that disclosure that nothing is going to happen to him, 676 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 2: like I told them, and they both were like, he 677 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,360 Speaker 2: shouldn't be an exception, he shouldn't be protected. This should 678 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 2: be just any normal case. And honestly, I think that 679 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,800 Speaker 2: when they found out he wasn't going to be prosecuted, 680 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:35,560 Speaker 2: it seemed like they were pretty upset about it. It 681 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,680 Speaker 2: felt like they were kind of betrayed along with me. 682 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,080 Speaker 1: In the end, the department lets Sarah down. 683 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,920 Speaker 2: I have so much knowledge and so much experience and 684 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,400 Speaker 2: so much information about how the criminal justice system works, 685 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:56,320 Speaker 2: and how CSPD works, and who is who and navigating 686 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 2: all of these situations would be imposed without that. So 687 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:08,520 Speaker 2: again I'm heartbroken for the people that are victims and 688 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:13,040 Speaker 2: don't have my special set of skills and knowledge and information. 689 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 2: If it hadn't been for some of that information, again, 690 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,560 Speaker 2: he would be getting away with all of it. 691 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,880 Speaker 1: Here's former CSPD employee Barbigan. 692 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,480 Speaker 5: If you have no integratary in your personal life, why 693 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,200 Speaker 5: would you have integrity in your public life. If you 694 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:36,520 Speaker 5: will lie about little stuff, you'll lie about big stuff. 695 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,920 Speaker 5: If you lie about big stuff, you'll lie about bigger stuff. 696 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,520 Speaker 1: It makes us wonder how many Joel Kerns and Glenn 697 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:52,760 Speaker 1: Thomas's there are right now getting away with potentially criminal 698 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,080 Speaker 1: behavior because their friends on the force are protecting them. 699 00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,480 Speaker 1: How many officers have had serious reports of misc cot 700 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:04,280 Speaker 1: swept under the rug. How many have had internal affairs 701 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:09,400 Speaker 1: investigations closed without consequence. We'll give the final word to 702 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:10,280 Speaker 1: Major Franklin. 703 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,359 Speaker 4: We work for you. As citizens, and we are to 704 00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:21,360 Speaker 4: provide a service. We take enough to protect people's constitutional rights, 705 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:27,920 Speaker 4: and we are one of a very few number of 706 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:33,480 Speaker 4: people occupations in this country who have the ability and 707 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,239 Speaker 4: right to take your liberty away from you at any 708 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:42,279 Speaker 4: given second. I want someone who is going to set 709 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,880 Speaker 4: the example for their behavior because they're going to be 710 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:50,840 Speaker 4: interacting with me, my kids, my grandkids, my nieces, my nephews, 711 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 4: my relatives, my friends. I'm not asking you to be saints. 712 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,360 Speaker 4: I'm asking you to have integrity. I'm asking you to 713 00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,480 Speaker 4: value your position, asking you to raise the level of 714 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:05,800 Speaker 4: professionalism within your craft. I'm asking you to be the best. 715 00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:10,280 Speaker 4: That's all. 716 00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,600 Speaker 1: On the next episode of Betrayal, we go back to 717 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:17,000 Speaker 1: Caroline's story and we hear about her healing journey. 718 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 7: No one blames the wife or the spouse or a 719 00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:24,040 Speaker 7: partner for someone's heroin addiction ex except for someone's gambling addiction. 720 00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:30,560 Speaker 7: It's just in this realm of infidelities where there seems 721 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:35,000 Speaker 7: to be this really strong focus on the betrayed partner. 722 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,640 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Betrayal season four. If you 723 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:44,880 Speaker 1: would like to reach out to the Betrayal team, email 724 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:49,239 Speaker 1: us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod 725 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,200 Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. Also, please be sure to follow 726 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:57,120 Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod and me Andrea H. 727 00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,440 Speaker 1: Gunning for all Betrayal content, news and updates. One way 728 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,799 Speaker 1: to support the series is by subscribing to our show 729 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,959 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. Please rate and review Betrayal five star 730 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:11,200 Speaker 1: reviews help us know you appreciate what we do. Betrayal 731 00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,320 Speaker 1: is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass 732 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:18,440 Speaker 1: Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is 733 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:22,480 Speaker 1: executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason. Betrayal is 734 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,840 Speaker 1: hosted and produced by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced 735 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:30,240 Speaker 1: by Carrie Hartman, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate 736 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:34,439 Speaker 1: producers are Caitlin Golden and Kristin Melcurie. Our iHeart team 737 00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:38,960 Speaker 1: is Ali Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Story editing by Monique Leboard, 738 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,960 Speaker 1: Audio editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio, editing by Tanner Robbins, 739 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,879 Speaker 1: and special thanks to Caroline and her family. Betrayal's theme 740 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,800 Speaker 1: is composed by Oliver Bains. Music library provided by my 741 00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,680 Speaker 1: Music and for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, 742 00:47:55,880 --> 00:48:03,239 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.