Speaker 1: Carl n She's a queen and talking song She's getting
Speaker 1: not afraid to favorite episode, so just let it flow.
Speaker 1: No one can do we quiet, caryll Lyne, it is
Speaker 1: sounding Caroline.
Speaker 2: All Right. I am so excited to be on this
Speaker 2: episode of Get Real podcast with Alisa Vanderheim. Hello, how's
Speaker 2: it going.
Speaker 3: I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 2: I'm so happy you're here. You're so cool.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 4: I mean, and you're a part of one of the
Speaker 4: coolest things that I feel like went on in country music?
Speaker 2: Was it last year? Last year was the year of
Speaker 2: you and Kelsey? Sorry? Yeah, yeah, Alisa Vanderheim. Do people
Speaker 2: call you Alyssa all the time? So what a.
Speaker 4: Year you've had. You're a huge songwriter in town. Like
Speaker 4: there's a list of people you've written for. You've written
Speaker 4: for like Florida, Georgia, Line, Blake Shelton, Little Big Town
Speaker 4: Lady A, Luke Colmes, Coldbeer called My Name?
Speaker 2: Who did you do that.
Speaker 3: One with h Jameson Rogers?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you've also had like another big cut.
Speaker 2: Who was that big pop song that you had one Republic?
Speaker 4: And then here comes our girl Kelsey Ballerina, which I
Speaker 4: feel like this is like, to me, as an outsider
Speaker 4: looking in, I feel like you guys are like musical soulmates.
Speaker 3: I think we are, you know, And I've seen.
Speaker 2: That happen with other artists.
Speaker 4: It's like when Carrie Underwood found her Hillary Lindsay, you know,
Speaker 4: and then they like wrote all those songs and it's like, Oh,
Speaker 4: there's Carrie Underwood.
Speaker 2: She's found her partner in her voice, and it's like whoa.
Speaker 4: And it's like, I'm speaking from my perspective, it's like
Speaker 4: you and Kelsey like y'all's combination has created dis maagic
Speaker 4: because you had eight songs on her Subject to Change album,
Speaker 4: So that's like most of the album.
Speaker 2: And how did y'all do rolling up the welcome Matt
Speaker 2: for Good? I mean, where did that come from? I
Speaker 2: know she was in the middle of a divorce, but like,
Speaker 2: how did y'all get this idea to secretly go to
Speaker 2: the studio and make this album?
Speaker 5: So she had this like brainchild. I think when she
Speaker 5: knew that it was over for her, she was like,
Speaker 5: we have to write about it. So she was like
Speaker 5: she warned me. She was like, we're gonna make a
Speaker 5: divorce album. And I was like, Okay, I'm along for
Speaker 5: the ride, like tell me what to do, coach, put
Speaker 5: me in Captain, And so we just started writing for it,
Speaker 5: and she kind of had like all the titles that
Speaker 5: she wanted to write in the concepts I was. I
Speaker 5: would say, there was like one song that didn't make
Speaker 5: the project, like we basically just snipered it.
Speaker 3: And then we're like in.
Speaker 2: The middle of the night, sneaking into the.
Speaker 3: Studio we would do Yeah, was she not.
Speaker 2: Married when she was making this album?
Speaker 6: Was it?
Speaker 3: Because?
Speaker 2: I mean it was probably like I'm the DL.
Speaker 3: I mean no, I would what if you were trying
Speaker 3: to remember? No?
Speaker 4: Because when okay, I have I now have witnessed some
Speaker 4: divorces happening in friendships, and it's like when especially a
Speaker 4: woman is done being married, she's done.
Speaker 3: She's done.
Speaker 4: Before the divorce happens, like there's a moment where it's
Speaker 4: like this has been over.
Speaker 3: It's been over for a while.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and if for the other party not to recognize that, yeah,
Speaker 5: come on.
Speaker 4: Are you blind, cited or just blind? What was the
Speaker 4: song that didn't make the album?
Speaker 2: What was that?
Speaker 5: It was called better Off and the hook was like
Speaker 5: it was like a better ring. Some things are better off.
Speaker 3: It's cool.
Speaker 2: It just didn't fit.
Speaker 3: No, I would say, I mean, I think she just
Speaker 3: wanted it so specific.
Speaker 4: What was the full spectrum that it's like from start
Speaker 4: to finish kind of.
Speaker 5: Yeah, she just had this in her brain the whole time,
Speaker 5: and I was just catching on as she was like,
Speaker 5: I was just like cool, that's dope. Like she knew
Speaker 5: the whole time, and I was just like all right,
Speaker 5: like trying to keep up.
Speaker 2: You know, were you all writing the songs in the studio.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's let's see.
Speaker 5: Blindsided happened because I just had made a track for
Speaker 5: her in mind, not not even for the EP, just
Speaker 5: like this is a cool track whatever. And then so
Speaker 5: we wrote that was I want to say that was
Speaker 5: the first song we wrote. I can't remember actually, but
Speaker 5: that was one of the first ones. And then that's
Speaker 5: like spurred a lot of the other ones, and like
Speaker 5: and half of the record she wrote by herself. So
Speaker 5: we just like I just put music to it.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 4: When she said we're going to make a divorce album,
Speaker 4: which A, that's so ballsy, you know, that's so scary.
Speaker 4: It is, that's so vulnerable, that's so exposing.
Speaker 3: It is, and it could go bad, real bad, Like
Speaker 3: it could go bad.
Speaker 4: How I mean, it could go she's exposing herself. But
Speaker 4: then also there's this other person that was in the
Speaker 4: marriage that is getting exposed to you know, like how
Speaker 4: did that play out?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and then you're talking about it, like
Speaker 2: even for you, it's like hard to talk about it
Speaker 2: because someone else is a divorce I know. But yeah,
Speaker 2: we all are so interested and we're so happy to
Speaker 2: hear the healing process. It's just so much.
Speaker 3: It's crazy.
Speaker 2: It's so much vulnerability.
Speaker 5: It is so much vulnerability for both parties. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 5: like someone else telling a story that you can't really
Speaker 5: control how they sell it and the other way around. Yeah,
Speaker 5: he had put out Morgan had put out this song
Speaker 5: called over for You, and so that spread kel seeming
Speaker 5: like oh shit, I need to like say my side.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he.
Speaker 2: Put out like movies too, yeah, videos or something. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I know. It's so crazy. It's so crazy.
Speaker 4: Like I'm in this phase of life where it's like
Speaker 4: I'm married, have a kid, I have friends who are
Speaker 4: married have kids, and like divorces are starting to happen.
Speaker 3: Divorce is so common, it's crazy.
Speaker 4: It's so weird, though, when you see it, when you're
Speaker 4: living it, when you're first hand to it, because it's
Speaker 4: like you always hear about it, and then you hear
Speaker 4: about you know, kids growing up, divorced family. Oh and
Speaker 4: like even one of the songs she talks about, how
Speaker 4: is it penthouse or whatever, she's like, you know, you're
Speaker 4: just gonna say, I'm like my parents, you know, and
Speaker 4: like then I'm just giving up too soon.
Speaker 2: And it's just like all these things.
Speaker 4: But it's like, to divorce is hard enough, but then
Speaker 4: to be on a platform like her singing it out
Speaker 4: loud for everyone to weigh in.
Speaker 2: You're right, it could have just gone so many ways.
Speaker 3: It could have really backfired.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but she just was so ready.
Speaker 5: She's already and she's such a good writer. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 5: she's such a she's one of the greatest songwriters in
Speaker 5: this town artist or not, like just point blank and
Speaker 5: so yeah, it was it was just like a treat,
Speaker 5: honestly to like watch her, you know, dive.
Speaker 3: To the bottom of her soul. Yeah, and just like.
Speaker 2: That's very artistry.
Speaker 5: That's so that's really true artistry, and that's a rare
Speaker 5: thing in this town honestly, to.
Speaker 2: Just share like that absolutely with no boundaries.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no boundaries and have it actually work?
Speaker 2: And I think don't you think that's probably why it
Speaker 2: did work?
Speaker 5: Yeah, honestly, Yeah, and like that those raw, like intimate
Speaker 5: details that like you would never know, you know, people
Speaker 5: like you love that shit, I know.
Speaker 4: And then y'all came back and added a song, the
Speaker 4: Healing version.
Speaker 3: Yep, the Yeah, what was that interlude?
Speaker 2: Was interlude? Because that was people were like dying for
Speaker 2: that to be a full song.
Speaker 3: It was just like a shorty little.
Speaker 2: So what was interlude? Originally?
Speaker 5: It was just it was like shorter, It was like
Speaker 5: maybe thirty or forty seconds long. It was just kind
Speaker 5: of like a little interlude type thing, like kind of more.
Speaker 3: Like drake vibes. And then people like loved it and
Speaker 3: so we just like kind of expounded on it.
Speaker 2: And then made like the whole marriage was like an interlude. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: is that kind of like the especially name of it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, she was.
Speaker 5: There's a line that's like forever it's just the interload
Speaker 5: or something like that.
Speaker 3: I'm like, that's crazy.
Speaker 4: Oh okay, So tell me about you, Like, how did
Speaker 4: you get to Nashville? How did you become a songwriter?
Speaker 4: Did you originally want to be an artist?
Speaker 2: Like? Where are you from?
Speaker 3: Tell me?
Speaker 2: Tell me the sax story.
Speaker 5: So originally from California, Northern California area.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, okay if you went from the Bay Area
Speaker 2: like or like you love the Bay Area?
Speaker 3: I love the Bay but we're rare. We don't leave.
Speaker 3: Why'd you leave from follow my dreams? Baby?
Speaker 2: Because you're gonna be music. Did you know you're a songwriter? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I always wanted to be a songwriter. Actually, did you
Speaker 3: up too music?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean I would like write songs on tupperware and shit.
Speaker 2: You know, Hey, what's your family like?
Speaker 3: Chiropractors?
Speaker 4: I love chiropractors. My grandfather's a chiropractor. I can't live
Speaker 4: without chiropractical treatment. I say it's a blessing and a
Speaker 4: curse because once you start, you can't stop.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I haven't been going. I needed to probably find someone.
Speaker 5: Do you have a recommendation A great Yeah?
Speaker 4: The spot I'll just I'll give you a shout. It's
Speaker 4: called Exodus in print Wood. They're amazed. And also the
Speaker 4: spine Shop in East Nashville's amazing.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, I live by there.
Speaker 4: The spine shop, it's in a little shopping center. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it's great. Okay, doctor Grande. What's up, doctor Grande?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Okay, but once you how are you.
Speaker 4: Living without chiropractor treatment? Because like I can't go more
Speaker 4: than a month. Really, my neck walks up.
Speaker 3: I mean I need it. Probably I'm just like sitting
Speaker 3: like a shrimp.
Speaker 2: Did you get adjustments all the time growing up? Like weekly?
Speaker 3: Daily? Probably? Like weekly?
Speaker 2: Okay, what's a like having a chiropractor?
Speaker 5: Yeah, they like met in chiropractic college and stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then they just started a clinic.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well so they're a Canadian.
Speaker 5: They they met in Canada, and then my mom was
Speaker 5: like selling her practice and then my dad was like
Speaker 5: interested in buying it. This was like early days, like
Speaker 5: so cup started out, but he didn't actually want to
Speaker 5: buy it. He was just like flirting with her and
Speaker 5: like wanted to Like that's a big flirt, Yeah, big flirt.
Speaker 3: Like leading her on, like about to buy your practice,
Speaker 3: come on.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And then so she was like I'm out here. I'm
Speaker 3: like moving to the West Coast from Canada. Yeah, she
Speaker 3: like wanted to move to organ and so my dad
Speaker 3: just like followed her.
Speaker 2: Good choice. Organ Why.
Speaker 3: I think she was just like nature and like it
Speaker 3: wasn't as cold.
Speaker 4: Your parents are nature people. Yeah, well they're obviously very
Speaker 4: holistic to chariapactic.
Speaker 3: They are.
Speaker 2: So did you grow up with the holistic background? Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, organic food?
Speaker 5: It was it was nice looking back, but like I
Speaker 5: like didn't get like that much junk food.
Speaker 2: I'm like, are you so pure and healthy? Are you
Speaker 2: still organic?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: You do? Do you feel great?
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't want love the idea of eating pesticides,
Speaker 5: but I know.
Speaker 2: But how do you avoid them? Like? Where do you show?
Speaker 3: You know? I mean, I mean I just go to
Speaker 3: like turnip Trucker, Whole Foods or something. But I mean
Speaker 3: if you go out to eat.
Speaker 5: You're kind of screwed. You're eating organic. I go out
Speaker 5: to eat all the time. So I'm like, how organic
Speaker 5: am I?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: I know, but at least you know how?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Do I do it? I do it sometimes?
Speaker 2: Stuff? Do you cook a lot?
Speaker 3: Yeah? But I have like my go tos. I don't
Speaker 3: really like adventure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's hard to do much work. It's too
Speaker 2: much work. Man.
Speaker 3: It is not about to like suck up some short ribs,
Speaker 3: you know, right? Do eat?
Speaker 2: You eat meat?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 5: I actually went for like a two week stint where
Speaker 5: I didn't eat meat in like January.
Speaker 2: How was it?
Speaker 3: It was interesting?
Speaker 2: Why'd you do that?
Speaker 3: Just because I was like watching all these documentaries and stuff.
Speaker 2: Did you sad?
Speaker 3: Yeah? And it's just like.
Speaker 5: Cows are like the biggest contributor to global warming, Yeah,
Speaker 5: which is crazy, more than like the entire transportation transportation
Speaker 5: sector and stuff.
Speaker 3: I'm like, that's crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, what do we do about these big problems?
Speaker 3: The big problems?
Speaker 2: I get hooked?
Speaker 4: Like I went vegetarian for a year, but then I
Speaker 4: end up getting like twenty pounds is all I did
Speaker 4: was eat white bread and like terrible processed food because
Speaker 4: I was not a good vegetarian.
Speaker 3: Did you go vegetarian for the animals? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Because I just got overwhelmed with the problems of the world.
Speaker 4: How do you navigate these big problems of the world.
Speaker 3: I know it's it's tough. Yeah, there's a lot of problems.
Speaker 2: Do Yeah, I know it's overwhelming.
Speaker 3: It's not good.
Speaker 2: Well, I guess you can write about them.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So you grew up super organic, super aligned with your
Speaker 4: body or your parents still together?
Speaker 3: They are okay? Siblings, Yeah, I have a sister she's
Speaker 3: five years younger than.
Speaker 2: Me, And how was that? Y'all close?
Speaker 5: We're close now, Okay. Growing up, I was definitely not
Speaker 5: the best towards her. She was just like, I mean,
Speaker 5: it was like an awkward age difference, you know, oh five, Yeah,
Speaker 5: it's like you're not close enough to be friends, and
Speaker 5: then it's too far to be like, you're so cute,
Speaker 5: you know.
Speaker 3: Okay, so it.
Speaker 5: Was like a little bit of a I was probably
Speaker 5: like a little mean to her.
Speaker 3: But we've we've mended it.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: That's good.
Speaker 4: You learned so much from your siblings, you know, like good, bad, ugly,
Speaker 4: all of it.
Speaker 2: It teaches you so many things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love her so much.
Speaker 5: She's going to college in Columbia right now, or not Columbia,
Speaker 5: like the country, New York.
Speaker 2: Okay, she's going to the college Columbia. Yeah, she's brilliant.
Speaker 2: That's a really hard school to get into.
Speaker 3: She's like doing some like climate change shit.
Speaker 2: You're to stay in the world. You're writing music, saving
Speaker 2: the world and opening up people's hearts.
Speaker 4: And she's just gonna get in there and like fix
Speaker 4: the climate warm global warming.
Speaker 2: I mean, thank you, guys. Vanderheims Vanderheims. What would we
Speaker 2: do without y'all seriously holding it down? I mean you're
Speaker 2: just holding down for all of us. Thank you for that. Okay,
Speaker 2: So you are in.
Speaker 4: This beautiful Bay area of California with super organic, awesome
Speaker 4: parents and living the life on the beach literally like
Speaker 4: life is a dreak.
Speaker 2: You're like, nope, I got to go.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I was like, I want to be a songwriter.
Speaker 2: So you always grew up kind of playing music, loving music.
Speaker 5: And for some reason, I just always like I didn't
Speaker 5: want to be an artist. I didn't want to be
Speaker 5: like a musician. I didn't like I wanted to be
Speaker 5: a songwriter, which is so like sniper of a direction
Speaker 5: to have.
Speaker 2: That you even knew that you could do that for a job.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I would like study like other writers like
Speaker 5: Kerdia Guardi and Max Martin and like Luke Laired and
Speaker 5: like a bunch of people that I didn't know that I
Speaker 5: would ever even get to write with one day?
Speaker 3: Have you wrote?
Speaker 2: How is that?
Speaker 3: Not? I mean not Max Martin, but awesome.
Speaker 4: He's coming, that will be happening next, that's coming next,
Speaker 4: coming next to me? You or on a Grammy Award
Speaker 4: winning Album for the Year. So I mean just saying
Speaker 4: Grammy losing, Grammy losing but still nominated Grammy Award nominated
Speaker 4: Album of the Year.
Speaker 2: That's huge, especially for like the secret project.
Speaker 5: That you'll we had no idea and I'm so glad
Speaker 5: we didn't know because we would have had in our heads.
Speaker 3: Like I'm glad that we didn't know at all.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Okay, So going back to like studying songwriters, that's so
Speaker 4: cool that even knew you could be a songwriter. Did
Speaker 4: What was it like when you got to meet them
Speaker 4: and write with them? Were you nervous or were you ready?
Speaker 5: It was I was definitely a little nervous, Like holy shit, yeah,
Speaker 5: like a little starstruck.
Speaker 4: How do you get the right? Started with Kara do
Speaker 4: you guardy? Because she was like an American idol.
Speaker 5: She was she was such a fan. I know she's famous. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I was just like she was so cool. But we
Speaker 5: actually didn't end up getting a song.
Speaker 2: Ironically crazy, like you could be so talented and it's
Speaker 2: like that just goes to show it doesn't matter necessarily,
Speaker 2: like the song just has to come right. Is that
Speaker 2: how you feel about song? Any for sure?
Speaker 5: It could be any combination of people. Hit writers are
Speaker 5: not hit writers. You could still write something amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, songs are their own thing. Yeah, there their
Speaker 2: own living creature.
Speaker 3: They really are, and you just have to channel them.
Speaker 3: It's weird.
Speaker 2: Do you channel songs often?
Speaker 4: Or are there times when you don't get something and
Speaker 4: you know you're not getting something but it's actually turned
Speaker 4: out to be something?
Speaker 2: Or like what is your process? Like do you know
Speaker 2: when you're on it?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would say usually, like and if I'm not
Speaker 5: on it, I'll like, I know it's not gonna happen.
Speaker 2: You call it a day. Usually finish or will we finish?
Speaker 5: Usually we'll finish, but I don't know. Usually you know,
Speaker 5: kind of in the middle, like yeah, but.
Speaker 3: I don't know. The more the more you swing the bat,
Speaker 3: the more you get shit.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 2: Did that used to bum you out? Like when you
Speaker 2: wouldn't get a song and like be like.
Speaker 3: Oh, for sure.
Speaker 5: Actually, last year ironically was one of the worst creative
Speaker 5: years of my life.
Speaker 3: Really.
Speaker 5: I know that this project came out last year and
Speaker 5: like everyone was like excited about it, but like in
Speaker 5: real time it wasn't. I wasn't like writing good songs at.
Speaker 2: All already, Why I don't know it was going on
Speaker 2: with you.
Speaker 3: Last year. I had a lot of anxiety for some
Speaker 3: reason because.
Speaker 2: You shared so much in this album with Kelsey.
Speaker 5: I don't know if it was like subconsciously that, but
Speaker 5: because I wasn't the artist that was like putting myself
Speaker 5: out there.
Speaker 3: So but you were in a way involved.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Becau, it's just you and her the whole thing, right, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: wrote everything and co produced it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but yeah, it was just I'd never experienced that
Speaker 5: much anxiety before, so it was just weird. I wasn't
Speaker 5: like I was very self doubting. Really yeah, I wasn't
Speaker 5: like excited to write songs that much.
Speaker 3: It was weird. It was weird year, Very glad it's over.
Speaker 4: What did you How did you navigate all that anxiety?
Speaker 4: Like had you already written the Kelsey album when you
Speaker 4: had this anxiety? Did it happen after the Healthy album?
Speaker 3: It must be because you, honestly it started when it
Speaker 3: came out.
Speaker 4: When the album came out, you were filled with anxiety
Speaker 4: because it was such a vulnerable album.
Speaker 5: Now that you're talking about it, yeah, I think maybe
Speaker 5: because a lot of people in town like weren't about
Speaker 5: it really.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like when it first hit what it was.
Speaker 3: Just like it was people were kind of afraid to
Speaker 3: support it in a way.
Speaker 2: I get that. I totally can see that.
Speaker 3: Because in my own people that I'm close to.
Speaker 2: Because they're like, she's divorcing her husband, this isn't right.
Speaker 5: Right, or just like we don't want to like align
Speaker 5: with one side or the other. And like people that
Speaker 5: were like close to me like did that. And I
Speaker 5: respect that, but that like definitely like gave me some
Speaker 5: anxiety of like am I doing?
Speaker 3: Am I the.
Speaker 5: First thing that I've ever produced, I'm like getting backlash
Speaker 5: for in a way, like is am I doing the
Speaker 5: right thing?
Speaker 3: Like? Is this? You know what I mean?
Speaker 4: And it's because too also, maybe people can villainize someone,
Speaker 4: which I feel though, like and I feel like I
Speaker 4: saw Kelsey do an interview about this or something, or
Speaker 4: it's like maybe if she even said I'm entering my
Speaker 4: villain error or something.
Speaker 2: I don't know if she said that.
Speaker 4: I'm not quoting, but it's like for the first time,
Speaker 4: someone like Kelsey, and I'm sure someone like you who's
Speaker 4: just been a songwriter, you know, assisting people write these
Speaker 4: great songs, never really like stacking a ground in a
Speaker 4: huge like movement in like expressing someone's deepest, darkest painful life.
Speaker 2: Yea divorce.
Speaker 4: You know, it's like airing all that, like you're the
Speaker 4: partner for that, You've always just assisted in these other
Speaker 4: songs that really don't come back to you, and then
Speaker 4: the other ways not it's not risky, it's not risky.
Speaker 4: This is risky business. But I feel though, like and
Speaker 4: I feel like I'm actually entering this error a little
Speaker 4: bit in my own life where I have forever wanted
Speaker 4: everyone to like me. I wanted everyone to think I'm
Speaker 4: great and lovely and like I'm a giant people pleaser,
Speaker 4: and like if I do anything to offend anyone, I
Speaker 4: immediately feel regret and remorse and I'm so sorry, and
Speaker 4: I overtalk it and I'm like, can you still love me?
Speaker 3: Somehow?
Speaker 4: But it's like, there comes a point in time where
Speaker 4: you make decisions to be open and creatively open and
Speaker 4: express yourself, and it's like people may not like it,
Speaker 4: and they.
Speaker 2: May judge you, and part of that is actually liberating.
Speaker 2: Though when you've.
Speaker 4: Gone so far into that that it's like, well, I
Speaker 4: guess I don't have.
Speaker 2: To worry about everyone liking me anymore.
Speaker 3: Thank god.
Speaker 2: Was that kind of a relief.
Speaker 5: But also in actually had this was very similar to
Speaker 5: your stories. She's always been like a people played here.
Speaker 2: I feel that in her music too in the past,
Speaker 2: even the way she looked.
Speaker 4: She's so beautiful and blonde and bubbly and sparkly, and
Speaker 4: you know, and then all of a sudden, she's like
Speaker 4: hitting us with some depth and some pain and like
Speaker 4: I'm going to bury.
Speaker 2: I'll be there with you to bury the body.
Speaker 4: I know that was from the past album or whatever,
Speaker 4: But like, yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker 3: There's a lot, but it's it's awesome to watch.
Speaker 2: So this is your first album to produce, well for.
Speaker 3: Like an entire project.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and everybody's got an opinion and they're scared of it.
Speaker 2: They're scared.
Speaker 5: Yeah people, I mean, I think people like the music.
Speaker 5: But then yeah, yeah, there's just a lot of different shades.
Speaker 4: That's probably why this one means ultimately maybe means so
Speaker 4: much to you and a Kelsey tell me if I'm wrong,
Speaker 4: because the fans took this one. Yeah, it wasn't like
Speaker 4: the industry was making this happen. Sure, it's like the
Speaker 4: fans made this happen, right, true.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean none of those songs are on the radio, right,
Speaker 5: not a single one.
Speaker 2: None of these songs have been on the radio.
Speaker 4: But this album's blown up and was nominated for Album
Speaker 4: of the Year as well because of the fans. Yeah,
Speaker 4: so what do you learn from what do you take
Speaker 4: away from all that? Because, let mean, you got the anxiety, you.
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, because it's anxiety. Got the anxiety.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but what do you take away from this, like
Speaker 4: doing a deeply personal album, not trying to please anybody,
Speaker 4: but get the art out correctly.
Speaker 3: I think. I mean that's I want to do more
Speaker 3: of it really.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so now you're like, okay, got.
Speaker 3: To double down.
Speaker 5: Yeah, got through the anxious part. And now it's like,
Speaker 5: I mean, what's the point if you're not doing that?
Speaker 5: I mean, obviously you always want to write something that
Speaker 5: everyone would like and like feels good and it's just
Speaker 5: like whatever. But like that is art, That is music,
Speaker 5: and we forget about it a lot when we're like
Speaker 5: forced into this. We're not forced. We willingly are a part.
Speaker 2: Of this whenever the game. There's a game to play, of.
Speaker 5: Course, and everyone wants to make money. Everyone wants to
Speaker 5: song on the radio, which is fair. Yeah, you know, yeah,
Speaker 5: how to eat.
Speaker 2: So when you go rogue, it's a little scary.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I mean I think it's it was rare,
Speaker 5: so I think people that's why it was shocking. It's
Speaker 5: because like, oh, like I haven't heard that, and I
Speaker 5: haven't heard that before bold.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's so rare, and honestly, it sets you
Speaker 2: up as this producer who's like someone who will go there,
Speaker 2: which is so cool because yes, you can play the game.
Speaker 4: You've had all these cuts which I want to dive
Speaker 4: into some of these deep these songs that you have
Speaker 4: because you have so many hit songs that are awesome.
Speaker 4: But like, you have all these hit songs. But it's like, also,
Speaker 4: you're gonna go Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 3: I love I love that. I love that. I mean
Speaker 3: that's yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're a female, a female producer who will go
Speaker 4: deep into the world.
Speaker 2: You know, like how many female producers are out there?
Speaker 3: I mean, are you it?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: But are you're the only ones? Small? The ratio convertive
Speaker 3: dudes is like it's crazy, yeah.
Speaker 5: But I mean it is cool that to think of
Speaker 5: other women like seeing this and being like, oh, I
Speaker 5: can do that, you know.
Speaker 2: Captain Morgan has a question.
Speaker 6: I have a question that just came up listening to
Speaker 6: you speak at least about it being more rare to
Speaker 6: be a female producer. What advice would you give to
Speaker 6: maybe some Bellmont students or just girls out there listening
Speaker 6: to this episode right now on how to get their start.
Speaker 5: I would say, just pretend like you're no different and
Speaker 5: just keep your head down and do it, because that's
Speaker 5: what I did.
Speaker 3: I just didn't.
Speaker 5: I mean at Belmont, I was just kind of like
Speaker 5: I didn't really I wouldn't recommend this to people, but
Speaker 5: like I didn't really like make friends or like try
Speaker 5: to do the social thing. I was just like very
Speaker 5: I just moved to Nashville. I have to like get
Speaker 5: to it and I have to get better like whatever.
Speaker 5: It was very like laser focused. But yeah, I would
Speaker 5: say make relationships and be a good energy. I think
Speaker 5: your energy is really important, more important than talent because
Speaker 5: no one wants to do you think so. I think,
Speaker 5: so work ethic and energy, Like there's a million talented people.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but technically, what is the first step, thinking logical
Speaker 6: steps someone should take to get their start.
Speaker 3: Learn your craft, learn study.
Speaker 5: If you're trying to be a producer, like learn your
Speaker 5: daw if it's logic, pro tools, whatever you feel more
Speaker 5: comfortable in, and be self sufficient, like if you want,
Speaker 5: like make your own demos, you know, kind of learn
Speaker 5: how to make your own vocals.
Speaker 2: I kind of just be a badass in your.
Speaker 3: Own right, Yeah, I just kind of don't be dependent
Speaker 3: on anyone else. Go to YouTube. Learn Like you can
Speaker 3: learn every everything on YouTube.
Speaker 2: So like learn everything. Learn if you want.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you want to be the if you want
Speaker 4: to be the best, like learn it. Just learn how
Speaker 4: to be self sufficient.
Speaker 5: Self sufficiency is cool because then you don't have to
Speaker 5: depend on a producer to be like I need this,
Speaker 5: I need this mix like no one's sending it to me,
Speaker 5: or like I need my vocals to sound a certain
Speaker 5: way and they're not doing it.
Speaker 3: If you figure it out, you can you have all
Speaker 3: the control.
Speaker 4: And then also you can the song in your head
Speaker 4: you can actually get out instead of having to try
Speaker 4: to explain to someone I want to sound like this
Speaker 4: and like this, and like.
Speaker 2: You use examples. It's like you actually hear the song.
Speaker 4: In your head and you have all the capability to
Speaker 4: get it into a song form that has to be
Speaker 4: very free liberty.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you don't have to be like a master
Speaker 5: product production wizard. Like so many songs that are amazing
Speaker 5: and that are hitting are just like guitar vocal kind
Speaker 5: of things, Like it's more sparse. I think more sparse
Speaker 5: is really popular right now anyways.
Speaker 6: But the advice you're giving right now, I feel like,
Speaker 6: is the advice I give people on my side of things.
Speaker 6: It's really good to be a Swiss army knife if
Speaker 6: you can and just put that effort in. Like you said,
Speaker 6: you can learn so much really about anything these days
Speaker 6: on YouTube, TikTok all the places, and if you come
Speaker 6: in with that skill set to any industry absolutely.
Speaker 5: I mean that's kind of why I started producing, because
Speaker 5: I was always a songwriter. And then I graduated from
Speaker 5: Belmont and I was like, Okay, I really want a
Speaker 5: pub deal. I was working at this restaurant called Marche.
Speaker 3: I love Marchay so good.
Speaker 2: It is Nashville. It's gone though, right gone. Yeah, they're great.
Speaker 3: Crapes, so good. Oh my god, Like nobody.
Speaker 2: Has crape, don't they didn't they have the crapes?
Speaker 3: The place ruled it did. I was the barista there
Speaker 3: for like the whole time I was at Belmont.
Speaker 2: But so cool. You see, You're just cool. You're just
Speaker 2: one of those cool people. Of course you were like
Speaker 2: the barista Marshe.
Speaker 3: Well that's a cool job.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is cool. It's like the cool restaurant and
Speaker 2: like you're making all these.
Speaker 4: Cool copy crazy yeah yeah.
Speaker 5: But yeah, that was my motivation to get out of
Speaker 5: the restaurant industry and like actually get a pub deal.
Speaker 3: So that's why I learned production.
Speaker 4: Okay, because you're like, yes, it's cool being at Marche
Speaker 4: and being ASA, but like this is why I'm here.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I knew I wasn't an artist. I wasn't
Speaker 5: like a comfortable with my singing. So I just wanted
Speaker 5: to figure out how to get myself an edge up
Speaker 5: to get a you know ya signed songwriter.
Speaker 2: How'd you get a publishing though?
Speaker 3: So I started just learning logic.
Speaker 5: I kind of like locked myself in my room for
Speaker 5: five months and had a plan to like have like
Speaker 5: a handful of demos that I'd written and then also
Speaker 5: did the demos for So that's what I did. And
Speaker 5: then my mentor and the first guy that signed me,
Speaker 5: Jesse Fraser.
Speaker 4: Jesse Fraser is the reason I got started on the
Speaker 4: music industry too. He was my first internship, Jesse Fraser.
Speaker 4: He's like the Kevin b Jesse Is he like the
Speaker 4: Kevin Bacon of music Rail everyone has a connection to
Speaker 4: Just Fraser, I would say, ye, Jesse Fraser, So he
Speaker 4: was your first.
Speaker 5: He signed me to my first deal and then signed
Speaker 5: me to my second dual and his publishing company, so
Speaker 5: it was it was called Major Bob.
Speaker 2: Major Bob. Yeah, George straight George, Garth Brooks S, Garth Brooks,
Speaker 2: Garth Brooks, Yes, George and Garth Brooks me.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm just kidding, but yeah.
Speaker 5: He signed me because he had heard like some shit
Speaker 5: that I had done, and he was like that's cool.
Speaker 5: And then he had emailed me, cold email me, and I.
Speaker 2: Was like, cold emailed you or I had sent it?
Speaker 3: Sorry, I had sent them.
Speaker 5: And he replied like a month later, a week later
Speaker 5: to the songs, was like, hey, these are cool, like
Speaker 5: want to come by the office.
Speaker 2: And how many years ago is this?
Speaker 5: This was twenty fifteen, Okay, okay, like six months after
Speaker 5: I graduated, okay, okay, and then yeah, and then he
Speaker 5: just like offered me a deal on the spot, and
Speaker 5: I was like.
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me. Go, Yeah, so you had just
Speaker 2: moved to town. So you go to publishing jil very quickly.
Speaker 3: How well, I was in Belmont, So I was. I
Speaker 3: was in town for like two and a half years.
Speaker 2: Okay, So you didn't do your full college at Belmont.
Speaker 2: You transferred?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I transferred, so I was going to school in
Speaker 5: Seattle at the time. It was tough to leave because
Speaker 5: I loved it. It was so fun.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean your family is doing it right the Bay,
Speaker 2: then they're in Portland.
Speaker 4: Canada is the greatest. I mean, Canada is like I
Speaker 4: feel like heaven on Earth. Yeah, so beautiful, clean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're hitting all the good spots.
Speaker 4: Okay, so you think you would to stay out of it.
Speaker 4: Now you got a publishing deal. So did you write
Speaker 4: with Jesse a lot? When did these cuts start rolling in?
Speaker 4: Because you've had a lot of cuts, Like you got
Speaker 4: Blake Shelton. You got wait, what was the Blake Shelton?
Speaker 4: Now I don't Florida Georgia line. You got a couple
Speaker 4: of Florida Georgia line, right, and then you have cold
Speaker 4: beer call. My name is Luke Calms. Lose somebody one Republic?
Speaker 4: How does one to republic get your songs. So where
Speaker 4: did these songs come from? How did the hits start rolling?
Speaker 3: Oh? Those?
Speaker 5: So that was like my first four years of my
Speaker 5: first publishing deal about Major Bob, A lot of those
Speaker 5: country cuts were happening.
Speaker 2: So you got a lot of cuts the first publishing.
Speaker 5: Well, I mean there was a few years where I
Speaker 5: still was still learning and stuff, but like I would say,
Speaker 5: it started hitting like probably two or three years into
Speaker 5: my deal.
Speaker 4: That's huge, the fact that you're getting outside cuts. It's
Speaker 4: so hard to get a cut.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was your first one.
Speaker 3: Oh that's a great question. But I remember my first
Speaker 3: single was.
Speaker 2: Talk You Out of It by fgl And how did
Speaker 2: that go?
Speaker 5: That was so fun? I was like so stoked. Tyler
Speaker 5: called me to tell me personally. I was like, Tyler,
Speaker 5: you're so sweet.
Speaker 2: Did you write it with them or did they cut
Speaker 2: your song?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 5: We it was like Hardy James, Hardy, Jamison Rogers, Hunter
Speaker 5: Phelps and I like wrote together all the time.
Speaker 2: And that was before Hardy was Hardy was Hardy.
Speaker 5: Before yeah, before anything. Okay, we're all just writers.
Speaker 4: All y'all were just writers and you pitched it so
Speaker 4: like for everyone listening like there's no.
Speaker 3: I remember we asked Ashley to come in on that
Speaker 3: session when he couldn't come.
Speaker 2: So actually, as well, who's to say you would have
Speaker 2: gotten that song?
Speaker 3: Well he still he still got publishing on that, okay.
Speaker 4: But but for everyone listening though, when you're a songwriter
Speaker 4: and you write a song that isn't with an artist
Speaker 4: in the room, even though Hardy was an artist, but
Speaker 4: I guess he wasn't an artist, then it's like to
Speaker 4: get the song to an artist and have them actually
Speaker 4: cut it, put it on their album, and then put
Speaker 4: it out as a single.
Speaker 3: It's like winning the lottery.
Speaker 2: It is like winning the lottery. It is so hard.
Speaker 3: It's crazy because yeah, yeah, it's insane.
Speaker 4: Because most artists want to co write their songs, and
Speaker 4: if they don't, then they have like a lot of
Speaker 4: certain writers that they listen to that they you know
Speaker 4: that they only really kind of like they trust this
Speaker 4: person's writing stuff fits for them. So it's just hard
Speaker 4: to get one in there, it is.
Speaker 5: And then if you don't have a relationship with the artists,
Speaker 5: you have to go through the an r like whatever
Speaker 5: manager and they.
Speaker 2: Used to say they'll hear it. Yeah, exactly, So many
Speaker 2: gate keepers exactly. So how'd you get into FGL.
Speaker 5: I just texted it to Tyler because he had been
Speaker 5: inviting me out to on the Tree Vibes bus.
Speaker 3: You remember what that was?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, did you take some trips on the tree?
Speaker 5: I mean that was like how a lot of writers
Speaker 5: got their first like kind of like juice, you know.
Speaker 2: From the tree.
Speaker 3: Was so fun.
Speaker 5: Yeah, what happened on the Tree bus? I mean you
Speaker 5: just wrote a bunch of songs. It was really fun,
Speaker 5: and we got to see like FGL shows every night
Speaker 5: which were just like filled with hits energy was awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Tree Vibes is fgl's publishing, Yes, but not
Speaker 2: no longer.
Speaker 5: But yeah, they would have a bus that would be
Speaker 5: that is designated to writing, and so they would invite
Speaker 5: like writers, young writers out to write with the boys.
Speaker 5: And there would also be like openers, so like we'd
Speaker 5: write with whoever's like Chris Lane or whoever would be opening.
Speaker 2: So fun.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my, I went on a few of those trips.
Speaker 3: It was really fun.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you became friends with FGL.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So we developed a relationship through that, and so
Speaker 5: then when we wrote that song, I was just like
Speaker 5: I'm just gonna text it to him because it's that
Speaker 5: nerve wrecking sometimes. But like, as long as you know
Speaker 5: what you're as long as you are confident in the
Speaker 5: song that you're pitching, I think it's fine.
Speaker 2: I know, because there's always that line of like, oh,
Speaker 2: am I crossing a line? Are we friends?
Speaker 4: Am I supposed to just only be a friend and not?
Speaker 4: But you're also like you're a songwriter.
Speaker 3: I mean, he's yeah, we're more like coworkers and friends.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so when you have something, it's like, okay, let
Speaker 4: me text it to you, and you don't abuse it.
Speaker 2: You know, if it's like gonna be.
Speaker 5: If you're confident in it, send it. Yeah, as long
Speaker 5: as you're not like blowing them up.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So he and he happened to like it and he
Speaker 5: was like, awesome, let me play it for BK. And
Speaker 5: then I was actually friends with their photographer or I
Speaker 5: was roomates Woul their photographer at the time, so like
Speaker 5: he was also like talking to them about me, which
Speaker 5: was which was cute. And then so then I just
Speaker 5: got a call from Justin who was the photographer at
Speaker 5: the time, and he was like, hey, like someone wants
Speaker 5: to talk to you and it was like it was
Speaker 5: like at like nine a pm on like a weeknight.
Speaker 5: I was like, Oh, he's definitely on the road. It's
Speaker 5: probably Tyler. I was like, oh my god, was it?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 3: It was?
Speaker 5: And what Tyler was like, Hey, I just want to
Speaker 5: let you know, like you like talking out of this
Speaker 5: new FGL single.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, So your first cut
Speaker 2: was the FGL single.
Speaker 3: It was my first. I had cuts before that, but
Speaker 3: it was my first. Like, oh god, I can like
Speaker 3: pay off my loans.
Speaker 2: And was it? Do you see financial success from that?
Speaker 3: For sure?
Speaker 2: Was that like back before? Because like singles used to
Speaker 2: like used to like a lot of.
Speaker 3: Money mechanicals when actually sold. I mean I missed that
Speaker 3: entire era of music.
Speaker 4: Hey, I know when CD sold and you had a
Speaker 4: cut on a CD, you could make tons of money.
Speaker 3: Hunts, you could get an album cut and be set
Speaker 3: for life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean insane. Yeah, what is it now when
Speaker 2: you get a cut? What was it like back A couple.
Speaker 3: Of thousand dollars? Back then you would probably make.
Speaker 2: Wait wait did you say a couple thousand dollars on it?
Speaker 3: If you have like a medium selling album cut, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well thousand dollars. That's just wrong.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really messed up.
Speaker 5: What if you get a single, I mean it depends
Speaker 5: on the splits, but then you're in six figures.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's nice. Yeah, but it probably used to be
Speaker 2: like seven figures.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean yeah, I feel like so much money.
Speaker 5: I feel like an album cut was like a single.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's terms of money.
Speaker 4: Right, like it's it's all gone back a step, like
Speaker 4: an album cut would be probably like six figures and
Speaker 4: then a.
Speaker 2: Single million dollars million, yeah, but.
Speaker 4: Now it's like you'll get a couple hundred thousand if
Speaker 4: you have a single.
Speaker 3: Exactly, which is why there's such a grind.
Speaker 2: I mean such a grind because you can't call it.
Speaker 3: You can't be like oh, and you can't be done.
Speaker 2: You can't be done.
Speaker 4: There's actually probably is there a whole new wave of
Speaker 4: pressure once you get that first cut, because you're like,
Speaker 4: now I gotta find yeah, I gotta catch myself.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and then you have to think about which I
Speaker 5: had never thought about this when I was coming up,
Speaker 5: like a catalog sale, oh yeah, because like when I
Speaker 5: first learned about catalog sales, I was like, oh, I
Speaker 5: can make more money on the songs I already made
Speaker 5: money on.
Speaker 2: Well, now you're gonna have great catalog sale.
Speaker 3: Yah. But like that's that was like blowing my mind.
Speaker 3: I was like, I didn't think about that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but you want you want more of those hits
Speaker 5: in there so you can have a bigger catalog number
Speaker 5: when you sell right.
Speaker 3: So but yeah, if you ever wanted to do that.
Speaker 2: So where did Blake Shelton come from? And his cut?
Speaker 2: And where and how did the Luke Holms cut?
Speaker 5: I always wanted to Blake Shelk's like song that was
Speaker 5: always like my because I would study his He was
Speaker 5: like one of the artists that I would study his
Speaker 5: songs like when I was at Oma, like studying how
Speaker 5: to write a freaking country song?
Speaker 3: Like you really didn't grow up on country?
Speaker 2: What did you grow up on?
Speaker 5: Like a lot of R and B and like Bob
Speaker 5: Marley and Beatles and stuff, like a bunch of stuff
Speaker 5: but not country.
Speaker 2: Okay, Interesting that you knew you wanted to come write
Speaker 2: country songs.
Speaker 3: I mean I just wanted to write songs, okay.
Speaker 5: And I think this was just like the easiest, Like, oh,
Speaker 5: you want to go to la It.
Speaker 3: Seems so intimidating to me at the time.
Speaker 4: I get that, Yeah, totally okay, But okay, so you
Speaker 4: studied Blake Shelton and he doesn't always even write all
Speaker 4: his own songs.
Speaker 3: No, he honestly barely writes. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So he's a great picker, great picker.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, great and ring there.
Speaker 2: He So he knows his brand, he knows how he is.
Speaker 2: What did you learn by setting Blake Children's song?
Speaker 5: I mean, just how specific? Like what makes something right?
Speaker 5: And like what lyric will make you feel something?
Speaker 3: Honestly?
Speaker 2: Okay, explain that a little more.
Speaker 5: I mean, so, Jesse Alexander is like a songwriter that
Speaker 5: I think is. I was actually thinking about this last
Speaker 5: night when I was laying in bed. She's she's my
Speaker 5: favorite songwriter.
Speaker 2: Jesse Alexander. Yeah, tell me why I love her? I don't.
Speaker 3: I can't put my finger on it.
Speaker 2: She wrote The Climb.
Speaker 3: She wrote the Climb, which is like so many best
Speaker 3: songs of all times to me?
Speaker 2: Like which other ones?
Speaker 3: Sad? She write? She wrote, I can't even freaking mine?
Speaker 3: Would be? You done it?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah? She wrote, don't think Jesus.
Speaker 5: Morgan Wallan, she wrote The Way I Talk Morgan Wallen
Speaker 5: like she writes songs that have so much heart but
Speaker 5: are still so commercial, and like she's just she's literally
Speaker 5: the best.
Speaker 2: To me, it's a fine art.
Speaker 3: That's a start.
Speaker 5: Her melodies are magical, she's just like classic, she's just
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 4: She's married to John Randall, who's a huge producer. He
Speaker 4: produced actually the latest Thousand Horses record.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So John Randall's a badass and he's done Parker McCollum,
Speaker 4: Miranda Derk Spinley. So they're just like a freaking power
Speaker 4: house musical family for sure. I can't even imagine what
Speaker 4: goes on the high closed doors there. I know, you know,
Speaker 4: they're just singing and making beautiful songs in the bathroom,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 2: Okay, So what is it about?
Speaker 4: How do you walk that line of having commercial success
Speaker 4: but being super vulnerable and like having the hooks?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think that's why you can't really
Speaker 5: have a great country song without being a little bit
Speaker 5: vulnerable sometimes.
Speaker 2: Does it have to be a real message, No, it doesn't, as.
Speaker 5: Long as it's a well written hook. I think, like
Speaker 5: if you listen to like drink on It, for example,
Speaker 5: we just talked about that, like it's just like it's
Speaker 5: just the clever like.
Speaker 2: Use of a hook, Like so tell me, let's.
Speaker 3: Say on it. We could drink on it.
Speaker 5: Like it's just like it just just they wrote it
Speaker 5: to the wall, Like it's just a song about picking
Speaker 5: a girl.
Speaker 3: But it's just like so clever and like well done.
Speaker 4: Is that hard from you too? Is that hard for
Speaker 4: you to like switch from? Obviously all your songs are masterful,
Speaker 4: but like you know, like Colber calling My Name is
Speaker 4: more about drinking. But I mean, obviously you got some
Speaker 4: mastership in that song. But like to go from writing
Speaker 4: drinking songs to rolling up the milk welcome at for Good,
Speaker 4: I mean that is a big leap.
Speaker 5: It's cool, it's kind of like a little it's a
Speaker 5: fun little challenge to like keep you on your toes.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, those are a different world.
Speaker 2: Obviously they're different worlds. How do you switch from the world?
Speaker 2: But what do you do?
Speaker 4: How do you what is your little navigator brain do
Speaker 4: when you just like know how to fit the artist
Speaker 4: that you're with.
Speaker 5: I would say, I guess and then just like follow
Speaker 5: my instinct and and trust the people I'm writing with,
Speaker 5: because like sometimes you just have to like get out
Speaker 5: of the way, you know, and that's someone when someone
Speaker 5: is caring. You're always going to be changing roles in
Speaker 5: a writing room. Sometimes you're going to be more of
Speaker 5: an editor. Sometimes you're going to be driving it. Sometimes
Speaker 5: you're like sometimes it's really like everyone's just all in it.
Speaker 2: Like all hands on board.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it can switch. So you just kind of
Speaker 3: have to.
Speaker 5: Like, yeah, I don't know, kind of settle into where
Speaker 5: you have the most offer. And that's particular combination of
Speaker 5: the room.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really an art to be a songwriter like yourself.
Speaker 2: Like it's a fine art because you are.
Speaker 4: Totally immersing into the artist energy because you're not You
Speaker 4: said you don't want to be an artist.
Speaker 2: You don't want to be a songwriter.
Speaker 4: So it's like you are an artist because you have
Speaker 4: all the stuff to give, but it's like you are
Speaker 4: totally having to get into their fine thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's why we're working with Kelsey. I feel
Speaker 5: so spoiled because she's such a good writer. There are
Speaker 5: plenty of artists that like writing is not their number
Speaker 5: one thing.
Speaker 2: So do you have a favorite lyric of the Kelsey Project?
Speaker 3: Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 5: I think I think the hook of Blindsided is absolutely brilliant.
Speaker 2: Were you Yeah?
Speaker 3: I was like Jesus Christ, were.
Speaker 2: You like blindsided or just blind? It's so simple, so.
Speaker 4: Impact, it's so good. Yeah, I mean that one hits.
Speaker 4: I feel like that's like how Tom Petty hit with
Speaker 4: his lyrics. You know, like they're all so simple and
Speaker 4: you can totally digest them, but you're like, whoa, right,
Speaker 4: how Yeah, Like how did something so intense it's so
Speaker 4: big it put into that?
Speaker 5: And I think that's like the heart of like country
Speaker 5: writing too, because like there's so many like big ideas
Speaker 5: that people write about and it's just like, oh you
Speaker 5: just like spot that out in like that line, Like
Speaker 5: the efficiency in the economy of a lyric blows my mind.
Speaker 5: Like that's magic to me.
Speaker 4: The efficiency in the economy of a lyric fact. So
Speaker 4: it's like you gotta get it down, you got to
Speaker 4: whittle it down. So yeah, you got to take this
Speaker 4: complex idea and get it so boiled down.
Speaker 2: To where it's just so refined, so refined.
Speaker 5: The exact words say the exact thing, Like every adjective
Speaker 5: has to be.
Speaker 2: Perfect, every word is so chosen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you have four you have two verses and maybe
Speaker 3: a bridge and a chorus.
Speaker 2: It's such a work of art. Yeah, is there a
Speaker 2: song that hits you the hardest? Like in the in
Speaker 2: they're rolling up to welcome Matt I.
Speaker 5: Let's say, honestly, just married is No one really talks
Speaker 5: about that song.
Speaker 3: But she wrote that by herself, and that hook.
Speaker 2: Is crazy because tell me the hook.
Speaker 5: Like first we were just married. It's like it's like
Speaker 5: the play on just married, m M.
Speaker 2: And then it's like were we in we were in love?
Speaker 5: Or yeah we were Oh, we were just married, like
Speaker 5: you know the sign of the car, just married and
Speaker 5: then but then we were just married.
Speaker 2: And then we're just married.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's brilliant.
Speaker 2: It's so good.
Speaker 5: That song is underrated. No one really talks about that
Speaker 5: song because it's like kind of sad and stuff.
Speaker 4: But but do people but do people lose their mind
Speaker 4: on the Penthouse?
Speaker 2: Oh my, they lose their mind.
Speaker 3: They lose their minds.
Speaker 2: It just like Mayhem.
Speaker 3: It's it's like they have an exorcism.
Speaker 2: What is that? What happens? Why do you think that is?
Speaker 3: I think it's just like so like what's the word
Speaker 3: like catharism? Like people just like scream. Really some of
Speaker 3: the words.
Speaker 4: Do you think it's because so many people like are
Speaker 4: kind of feeling this in their own way, and they're like,
Speaker 4: I can't believe this isn't a song.
Speaker 3: I think so many people.
Speaker 5: I've had so much, so much feedback from people that
Speaker 5: are like, I'm happily married, but like, why am I
Speaker 5: like sobbing my eyes out of this divorce album.
Speaker 4: It's kind of like the first divorce album that I
Speaker 4: can like recall. I mean, I'm sure like Loretta Linne
Speaker 4: touched on all this shit back in the day, you know,
Speaker 4: but it's just like.
Speaker 2: Do you do you feel that way? Like a straight
Speaker 2: up divorce album?
Speaker 3: I know, you know that's so pointed at that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and so many people.
Speaker 2: Are divorced or divorcing or like so common.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the relationship's not working out is like that's everywhere.
Speaker 2: And Kelsey being the one who's making decision who could
Speaker 2: be painted as the bad guy because it's not like
Speaker 2: she was married to like a bad human.
Speaker 3: Organ's very sweet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, great guy and she says that all the time.
Speaker 4: It's like great human. He's gonna be a great partner
Speaker 4: for somebody. But like they just hit the end. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, so it's like.
Speaker 5: And there was she was so young when he married her, yeah,
Speaker 5: or she married him, yeah, like she's twenty two or
Speaker 5: twenty three, Like.
Speaker 2: Who knows anything at that age, right, seriously?
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, and like they were traveling and like
Speaker 5: they're they're a part all the time.
Speaker 3: Like that's really hard.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So what's been a bucketless moment for you? What's
Speaker 4: been in this journey? I know you said twenty twenty
Speaker 4: three was a very hard year for you because you
Speaker 4: went so deep and you know you but what has
Speaker 4: been like something that's happened that was like amazing that
Speaker 4: you could have never dreamed of.
Speaker 5: I mean honestly, like sitting at the floor of the Grammys.
Speaker 5: I know that's like probably basic, but.
Speaker 2: It's not basic. Sitting at the floor of the Grammys
Speaker 2: is not basic. What does that feel like?
Speaker 3: Wild?
Speaker 5: Like I was just like looking around. We were sitting there, Withel, Yeah, sorry,
Speaker 5: we were. It was just me and Kelsey and we're
Speaker 5: sitting at a table's Lionel and.
Speaker 2: His wife and how are they?
Speaker 3: They're beautiful?
Speaker 2: Great, they're doing great.
Speaker 3: My pal Linel.
Speaker 5: It was two dollar bills, actually was yeah, two dollar bills?
Speaker 1: Have them?
Speaker 3: I guess someone gave it to them and he's like,
Speaker 3: I want you guys to have one.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, did you frame it?
Speaker 3: I will, That's adorable, so cute.
Speaker 2: So you're just hanging with Line on the fam it was.
Speaker 3: I was just looking around like I just I just
Speaker 3: like got my ass.
Speaker 4: Here, and you're like here, I am in the room
Speaker 4: with the Greatest of All, which means you are also
Speaker 4: the greatest of All and your album is nominated for
Speaker 4: the Greatest.
Speaker 3: Of All album all these legends this year.
Speaker 2: What does that feel like to be nominated with the
Speaker 2: greatest of All?
Speaker 5: It was, I mean, it's so like rewarding. It's just like, Okay,
Speaker 5: you're on the right track.
Speaker 3: You're doing keep doing it majorly on the right track.
Speaker 5: I mean it makes you like, it doesn't make you
Speaker 5: want to write anything different than the way you've been
Speaker 5: doing it.
Speaker 4: So who did you talk to the Grammys? I saw
Speaker 4: Kelsey and Taylor hanging out. Did you hang out with Taylor?
Speaker 5: And we weren't there for that long? Actually, I was
Speaker 5: just like watching. I didn't really like talk to them anyone.
Speaker 4: You didn't like run up to Taylor and Blake House, Travis, No,
Speaker 4: that's so lame.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't.
Speaker 3: I was just like.
Speaker 2: Beyonce.
Speaker 3: Beyonce was there?
Speaker 2: Is that cool to to be breathing all the same
Speaker 2: are as, all these legends in one room.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah.
Speaker 5: And then yeah, and being able to like watch you know,
Speaker 5: Scissor's performance right there, I was like we were dancing.
Speaker 5: I definitely got caught eating grapes on camera, so I
Speaker 5: won't be doing that again.
Speaker 3: I will not be eating I won't be eating single shred.
Speaker 2: Did y'all do any after parties?
Speaker 5: We went to We all like went to dinner with
Speaker 5: like Kelsey's parents and my parents were cute and like
Speaker 5: some of our friends and Kelsey's team.
Speaker 3: It was very wholesome and cute.
Speaker 2: Afterwards, that is so wholesome and cute.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So we actually didn't do it the after parties thing,
Speaker 5: but we definitely celebrated though.
Speaker 3: It was fun.
Speaker 2: Was it was it, y'all?
Speaker 4: Y'all don't make this album trying to make Country Album
Speaker 4: of New Year for the Grammys, but then you're nominated
Speaker 4: for it?
Speaker 2: Was it hard to not win?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, Lanny One, which I mean, she's amazing, it's so cool,
Speaker 4: was amazing a female, but like yeah, when you're you've
Speaker 4: made it that far.
Speaker 3: It's like, oh it's it was like it would have
Speaker 3: been cool. It would have been cool.
Speaker 5: And I think else he took a little harder than
Speaker 5: I did, because just because she's been nominated more the
Speaker 5: times than me, and.
Speaker 3: She put her heart. I mean she literally put her.
Speaker 5: Heart on the floor and like just offered her heart
Speaker 5: to like the world and lent to not get the
Speaker 5: gold for that.
Speaker 3: I've I felt that for her.
Speaker 2: Has she Have you seen the healing that's happened in
Speaker 2: her because of this album?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, she's like a different person.
Speaker 2: Do you think it's because she got it out she
Speaker 2: had an exorcism?
Speaker 5: Absolutely, because she's different. I mean she's she has the
Speaker 5: same she's the same sweet girl, but like she's grown up,
Speaker 5: Like she's unrecognizable.
Speaker 2: So what's coming up next? Are you producing more?
Speaker 5: More in the middle of her next album? Which is exciting,
Speaker 5: it's a lot of work, but it's fun.
Speaker 2: Is it a totally different feel?
Speaker 3: I would say it's not totally different. It's like kind
Speaker 3: of the same.
Speaker 4: We're not heartbroken anymore, We're not well, we're not heartbroken,
Speaker 4: but we still got me.
Speaker 3: But it's not it's not all the way, but she gushy, Yeah.
Speaker 2: We still got it. Yeah, that you're coming.
Speaker 3: Out in a new relationship, which is awesome.
Speaker 2: Obsessed with watching them, Yeah, yeah, it's great.
Speaker 5: To see their journey and like how they like fight
Speaker 5: for each other and is he the cutest?
Speaker 3: He's awesome? Yeah, very sweet, Yeah, very sweet.
Speaker 4: She's dating John b everyone from out of branks, out
Speaker 4: of ranks, which I think they're a hot couple for sure.
Speaker 2: They're such a hotel.
Speaker 4: I'm like, dang, it actually like makes me like seeing
Speaker 4: how hot they are. They're both so beautiful and their
Speaker 4: models so crazy in love with each other.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they really are so.
Speaker 4: Okay, So, so does this all this love and all
Speaker 4: this writing about someone else's love life, how does that
Speaker 4: interplant to your like world of romance?
Speaker 2: Like, what do you mean?
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm just like helping. It's like kind of
Speaker 5: the same as the other thing. I'm just like not,
Speaker 5: I don't really have much going on, Like I'm.
Speaker 2: Over here fending fielding all this for everyone.
Speaker 3: I've just holded down exactly. I'm holding it down exactly. Carol.
Speaker 2: You're not You're not feeling all the love and the
Speaker 2: heartbreak and the turmoil. That's kind of nice, I guess. Yeah,
Speaker 2: well I missed the dating apps like I have been
Speaker 2: with my husband Michael forever, which I am so great
Speaker 2: beufore ten years married in August, thank you, and five
Speaker 2: years before that, so we've been together fifteen years. So
Speaker 2: I missed the dating apps. I feel like I would
Speaker 2: have crushed them.
Speaker 3: You definitely would have crushed them. I mean, but would
Speaker 3: they have crushed me?
Speaker 2: That is a question.
Speaker 5: Though it's just like a waste of time, it is,
Speaker 5: I mean, the ratio of how many people are worth
Speaker 5: any anything?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Is it just not even?
Speaker 3: But I'm just like so picky.
Speaker 2: Also, so what are you looking for?
Speaker 3: No one all in dating app when you know, think,
Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe you never know.
Speaker 2: Would you want to be with another artist, like an
Speaker 2: artistic mind or is that too?
Speaker 3: I definitely have to be inspired by someone.
Speaker 5: I've learned that, yes, yes, be inspired by them. Yeah,
Speaker 5: well if they're an artist or like in another realm.
Speaker 5: I don't know, but I don't think I could date
Speaker 5: like a Normy.
Speaker 2: No no, no, absolutely not no. You could not date
Speaker 2: a nor me?
Speaker 3: Are you kidding me?
Speaker 4: Your life from the start has not been normy. You're
Speaker 4: from the Bay with chiropractical parents who are from Canada
Speaker 4: who lived in Portland, like are on the beach, Like
Speaker 4: you're creative, so you can't be normal.
Speaker 2: You don't even know what that is, you know. I
Speaker 2: mean maybe that would be fun to do something a banker.
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, no. You'll have a certain crew
Speaker 2: that you always write with.
Speaker 5: It's either her and I or then we write with Hillary, Jesse,
Speaker 5: Joe and Karen for this kind of record, which kind
Speaker 5: of just formed a little gang. Yeah, okay, it's Hillary,
Speaker 5: Hillary Lindsay Sorry, oh Hillary, Jesse, Joe Dylon. He was
Speaker 5: nominated for Songwriter the Year at the and then Karen
Speaker 5: Fairchild from a little big town.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just so fun. We just like drink wine
Speaker 3: and write your truth. Yeah, it's so fun.
Speaker 2: Do you really think to yourself like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I'm doing it?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Actually, what does it like to like? Check? It's wild?
Speaker 3: It's wild. It's so cool.
Speaker 2: Is it more than you could have imagined when you
Speaker 2: moved here from the bank? Oh?
Speaker 5: I think about that all the time to day we
Speaker 5: were in the studio, like cutting at Black River last
Speaker 5: week or the week before I think with Kelsey for
Speaker 5: the new stuff, and I was just like walking down
Speaker 5: on the alleyway like I'd gone and coffee on the
Speaker 5: lunch break, and I was like, I was like I
Speaker 5: remember walking down music grub.
Speaker 3: I me like wide eyed.
Speaker 5: I wondered wondering how man get it my foot in
Speaker 5: the door, what it's going to look like? You know,
Speaker 5: so outside of it, and then I'm just like in it.
Speaker 3: It's so crazy.
Speaker 2: Do you think it's so cool?
Speaker 3: It's like everyone it's so freaking cheesy. But like, if
Speaker 3: you have.
Speaker 5: A dream, like do it go The dream is for
Speaker 5: a reason, Yes, for a reason, and you can do it.
Speaker 3: You can literally do it.
Speaker 2: You just have to keep following. Like they say in prison,
Speaker 2: just do the next right thing.
Speaker 3: The next right thing. It seems so far away until
Speaker 3: you're in it and then just like oh shit.
Speaker 2: And the only real guidance you can do is just
Speaker 2: do the next thing that you're called exactly.
Speaker 5: Just follow your gut. Literally, your gut is everything got intuition.
Speaker 2: That's so hard to like let that be the answer,
Speaker 2: but it is the answer.
Speaker 3: I know. When you have a million people telling you things, Yeah.
Speaker 4: There's always formulas and all this stuff, but it's really
Speaker 4: like you just have to follow your.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And that's like in a macroway, in a microway,
Speaker 5: like when you're writing a song if you have a
Speaker 5: feeling about a lyric that's not right, or like a
Speaker 5: big picture thing, it's.
Speaker 3: Like, thank God, do we have our intuition?
Speaker 2: I know?
Speaker 3: Where would we be?
Speaker 2: I feel like that is the God inside of us?
Speaker 2: Is how we know?
Speaker 3: That is?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I always wrap up. I would talk to you forever.
Speaker 2: I always wrap up with leave your light.
Speaker 4: And it is a super open ended question, just on
Speaker 4: your journey, all the things that you've experienced, all these
Speaker 4: highs and lows and magic and you know, anxiety and
Speaker 4: the whole gamut.
Speaker 2: What do you want people to know? Just to leave
Speaker 2: them a little inspired.
Speaker 5: I just think kind of touched on what I just said,
Speaker 5: like you can literally do it if you want, Like
Speaker 5: the world is yours and that's so cheesy, but like
Speaker 5: we're very powerful, more powerful than we think, and we
Speaker 5: have all the tools.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for joining me, thank you for
Speaker 4: sharing your heart and talent and all these incredible songs
Speaker 4: and albums that you're part of.
Speaker 2: I'm so excited to hear the next Kelsey record. Thanks,
Speaker 2: thank you for joining and if you're cool, we have
Speaker 2: a few burning questions. We get a little extra episode
Speaker 2: where we get a little burning question so stick around
Speaker 2: and Thursday we're gonna have some burning questions, so tune in.
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining mea