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Speaker 1: So COVID is in the news again, just in time

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Speaker 1: for a new booster, new vaccine to be released, they

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Speaker 1: say mid September, just in time for the upcoming presidential election.

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Speaker 1: I guess we should call it the election variant. So

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Speaker 1: are Americans going to fall for this again? Are enough

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Speaker 1: Americans still fired up about the destruction that politicians caused

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Speaker 1: their lives, the businesses that were shut down, the people

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Speaker 1: who were denied the ability to say goodbye to a

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Speaker 1: loved one, that people who died of suicide or overdoses

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Speaker 1: because of the loneliness from government dictated lockdowns. Are Americans

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Speaker 1: going to take this again? How will we respond to

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Speaker 1: this as a country and how far is Joe Biden

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Speaker 1: and the left willing to push it. We're going to

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Speaker 1: talk to Jeffrey Tucker of the Brownstone Institute. He's the

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Speaker 1: founder and president. He's also the author of Liberty or Lockdown.

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Speaker 1: The Brownstone Institute's a nonprofit dedicated to finding out what

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Speaker 1: happened during COVID and dedicated to making sure it never

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Speaker 1: happens again. So stay tuned for Jeffrey Tucker. Well, Jeffrey,

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Speaker 1: it's an honor to have you on the show. You

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Speaker 1: started the Brownstone Institute, which has been incredibly helpful because

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Speaker 1: we really haven't been getting the truth from most of

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Speaker 1: the media about COVID, and you guys have been working

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Speaker 1: to provide that for the American people. So I'm so

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Speaker 1: glad that you started it and that it exists.

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Speaker 2: Can you believe that three and a half years later,

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Speaker 2: we still don't have any clarity about what happened to

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Speaker 2: us and why, or any of the basic facts about

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Speaker 2: what COVID is and what it does and who's at

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Speaker 2: risk and how do you avoid it and then the

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Speaker 2: relationship of you know, government policy to the infection rate.

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Speaker 2: Three and a half years later, there's still not been

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Speaker 2: a reckoning over this.

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Speaker 1: Astonishing There still hasn't been a reckoning, and it looks

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Speaker 1: like we're about to, you know, get back into the

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Speaker 1: cycle of this. I got this alert this morning from

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Speaker 1: the Washington Post. Latest COVID variant threatens to be the

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Speaker 1: most adept at evating immunity. Very scary. And then you know,

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Speaker 1: you go through and you just search COVID. It's in

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Speaker 1: the headlines again, right, you know, talking about how this

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Speaker 1: new variant is spreading in the US, rise in hospitalizations,

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Speaker 1: you know, the updated COVID shot likely to be available

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Speaker 1: just in time in mid September, you know, and it

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Speaker 1: almost makes you wonder, I mean, shouldn't they just call

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Speaker 1: this the election variant?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's something very suspicious about the timing of all

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Speaker 2: this stuff, since there is no evidence whatsoever that there's

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Speaker 2: something uniquely dangerous about this new variant. There's just another

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Speaker 2: variant and gets you know, these respiratory viruses are always mutating,

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Speaker 2: that's just the way they do. Some some of these

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Speaker 2: pathogens are stable, and there are things against the witch

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Speaker 2: Shoe can vaccinate, but others like this are constantly producing

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Speaker 2: new variants. And our immune system needs to be you know,

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Speaker 2: constantly sort of sustaining alert and upgraded through exposure. And

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Speaker 2: it's this is the way human beings have managed these

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Speaker 2: sorts of things since the beginning of time. There's nothing

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Speaker 2: particularly unusual about the SARS Kobe two, if it was

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Speaker 2: a new virus four years ago, is now thoroughly endemic

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Speaker 2: in the population, and it's easy to manage through therapeutics

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Speaker 2: and just good health and that sort of thing. So

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Speaker 2: there's no basis for the hysteria at all. And I

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Speaker 2: don't know about you, but I you know, I think

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Speaker 2: that this this, this, all this media generating a fear.

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Speaker 2: It's not producing fear of the virus. It's producing fear

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Speaker 2: of lockdowns. My phone has been ringing off the hook

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Speaker 2: with people asking me what should I do? You know,

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Speaker 2: I mean, we're going to get locked down again. Can

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Speaker 2: I leave the country safely? You know what if I

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Speaker 2: find myself in New York and I can't get out?

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Speaker 2: I mean, people are really scared.

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Speaker 1: I guess what worries me the most, and the biggest

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Speaker 1: question that I continue to think about all this is

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Speaker 1: do Americans want to be free?

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Speaker 2: Wow? That is a big question. Well I don't even

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Speaker 2: know how to answer that, except to say that I

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Speaker 2: think probably less so than in previous generations. And that

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Speaker 2: is a major problem that definitely needs to be fixed.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure what led to a situation where everybody

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Speaker 2: became so strangely compliant three and a half years ago.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if thee Civics education or just spoiled

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Speaker 2: through ridiculous levels of prosperity. We have several generations now

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Speaker 2: that never had to fight for anything. So I'm not sure.

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Speaker 2: And this is what worries me. And this is really

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Speaker 2: why I started the Brownstone Institute was to you know,

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Speaker 2: figure this problem out and to highlight the beauty of

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Speaker 2: human freedom. And I've gained a new appreciation for just

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Speaker 2: how fragile it is. I don't think I entirely understood

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Speaker 2: that our freedoms could be so suddenly and quickly taken

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Speaker 2: away by administrative state the way they did it. I

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Speaker 2: never imagined I'd see anything like that in my lifetime.

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Speaker 2: So it's a genuine crisis.

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Speaker 1: When you wrote the book about it, you know, liberty

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Speaker 1: or lockdown, you know. But my fear too is that,

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Speaker 1: you know, I didn't get vaccinated ever. On the show,

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Speaker 1: I talk about it all the time because I think

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Speaker 1: that was one of the scariest and simultaneously you know,

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Speaker 1: dumbest moments of American history when that was being forced

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Speaker 1: down the throats of Americans. And but what terrified me

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Speaker 1: the most, and it goes back to that question of

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Speaker 1: do Americans want to be free? There was you know,

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Speaker 1: polling by Rasmussen where nearly half of Democrats wanted to

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Speaker 1: put me and people like me who did get the

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Speaker 1: vaccine in some sort of government camp. And you can

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Speaker 1: really sort of go back in moments of history, and

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Speaker 1: while obviously not making comparisons, but you can see how

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Speaker 1: well people that are you know, quote unquote good people

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Speaker 1: go along with really bad things. And I think that

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Speaker 1: scares me the most about where we are as a

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Speaker 1: society and where we could be heading.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know what you mean. When I was young

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Speaker 2: and in college, there's a book called Extraordinary Popular Delusions

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Speaker 2: and the Madness of Crowds, which provides, you know, fascinating

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Speaker 2: anecdotes from all of history where people just went insane,

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Speaker 2: and I always thought, Wow, look at how crazy people

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Speaker 2: used to be in the past. That will never happen

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Speaker 2: to us now because we're too well educated and we

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Speaker 2: have access to all sorts of information. We'll never go

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Speaker 2: through this. Unfortunately, we did go through it, and it

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Speaker 2: was extremely brutal, very cruel. The vaccine mandates eventually mutated

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Speaker 2: into full scale segregation in I guess five cities in

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Speaker 2: let me think this would have been, yeah, in late

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one and early twenty twenty two. So we

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Speaker 2: had New York, Boston, New Orleans, Chicago's you know, really

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Speaker 2: just shut off their services, their public accommodations, commercial enterprises

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Speaker 2: to the non vaccinated, and they did this without any

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Speaker 2: regard for the demographics to the unvaccinated group. But you know,

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Speaker 2: the largest single unvaccinated group in this country is members

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Speaker 2: of the African American community. So they, you know, in

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Speaker 2: New York forty were excluded from libraries, theaters, restaurants, bars.

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Speaker 2: It's it's astonishing. I don't remember reading anything about that,

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Speaker 2: but I looked at the demographics and I thought, this

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Speaker 2: is this is segregation, and and and the New York

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Speaker 2: Times loves it. And we had you know, in those

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Speaker 2: days too, there was there was really no evidence that

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Speaker 2: the vaccine was capable of protecting people and certainly, you know,

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Speaker 2: stopping the spread of the virus. There was no evidence

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Speaker 2: of that. In fact, the euas offered for the vaccines,

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Speaker 2: never even claimed that they were going to do that.

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Speaker 2: It's true that Woolenski and Fauci and the rest of

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Speaker 2: these people, Rachel Maddow and so on, all said this,

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Speaker 2: but there was no scientific evidence of this, and we

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Speaker 2: did it anyway. We just began to demonize, you know,

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Speaker 2: the unvaccinated and blame them for the perpetuation of the pandemic,

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Speaker 2: even though there was no evidence for that either. It

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Speaker 2: was extraordinarily cruel based on superstition and really a kind

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Speaker 2: of unmitigated hatred of the other. And this really happened

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Speaker 2: in our times.

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Speaker 1: Well, and that's what it really was. It was the

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Speaker 1: othering of people, which we've seen throughout history, and because

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Speaker 1: there really wasn't any you know. And what was strange

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Speaker 1: was being a rational person during all of this who

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Speaker 1: didn't get caught up in the hysteria, who was actually

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Speaker 1: trying to look at thet because from a fact based

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Speaker 1: rational standpoint, you could say, Okay, as a young and

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Speaker 1: healthy person, statistically, I'm just not at risk of dying

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Speaker 1: from COVID. COVID is clearly not preventing or the vaccine

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Speaker 1: is not preventing the spread of COVID. So therefore this

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Speaker 1: is not a public health thing to get vaccinated. I'm

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Speaker 1: not protecting my neighbors by getting vaccinated. Not personally at

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Speaker 1: risk of the vaccine. Most vaccines have five to ten

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Speaker 1: years of safety data. This is not MR and A

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Speaker 1: is new to the market, you know, they really use

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Speaker 1: the fog of word to get it. So considering all

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Speaker 1: of that, why would I get something that I don't need,

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Speaker 1: that's untested, that's not going to prevent the spread to

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Speaker 1: other people. Yet if you didn't get it, you were

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Speaker 1: a monster.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the unknown safety profile is an interesting one.

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Speaker 2: You know, how is it that so many people were

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Speaker 2: willing to trust the CDC and the FDA, you know,

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Speaker 2: with this new technology, you know, with which we had

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Speaker 2: had no prior experience, which hadn't hadn't been tested. It's

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Speaker 2: really astonishing that so many people went along with us,

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Speaker 2: much less you know, mandating it for for millions and

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Speaker 2: millions of people, you know, and let's not forget the

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Speaker 2: you know, the Biden administration initially wanted to mandate it

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Speaker 2: for every you know, medium sized in the large business

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Speaker 2: in the country. That was quickly struck down. But that

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Speaker 2: almost happened to us. But even then, their mandates on

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Speaker 2: healthcare workers and on the military and all well, I

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Speaker 2: guess employees of government, you know, they they were forced

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Speaker 2: to get it. And most universities did this to their students,

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Speaker 2: and now there's this really epidemic of myocarditis among students,

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Speaker 2: which is you know, we're completely silent about we pretend

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Speaker 2: like that's not happening. But I had, you know, professor

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Speaker 2: friends of mine who just said, look, I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to go along with this. I'm just I'm leaving, and

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Speaker 2: they they left academia and students just said, look, I'm

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Speaker 2: not I'm not going back to school, I'm out of here.

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Speaker 2: I'm not gonna I'm not going to do this. That

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Speaker 2: turns out to have been a very intelligent decision. But

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Speaker 2: in order to make that kind of decision, it took

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Speaker 2: a lot of personal courage, because you couldn't even turn

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Speaker 2: on the TV with that having people scream at you,

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Speaker 2: get vaccinate, get vaccinate. Your friends are yelling at you,

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Speaker 2: everybody's yelling at your daily papers. I mean, the whole

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Speaker 2: culture was demanding that everybody line up for their shots

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Speaker 2: without any evidence that they were going to do anything

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Speaker 2: in the pandemic. H And as you say, you know,

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Speaker 2: the demographics of this particular pathogen were so focused on

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Speaker 2: the elderly and infirm and essentially certainly no you know,

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Speaker 2: that almost invisible risk to young people, but even working

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Speaker 2: age adults, healthy adults were not ever in any risk

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Speaker 2: of medically significant consequences from this on. Just yeah, you're

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Speaker 2: gonna get sick, and that certainly I would include myself

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Speaker 2: in that. I knew for sure that I was, you know,

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Speaker 2: I would get COVID and that it was going to

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Speaker 2: be a bummer, you know. And that's sure enough what happened.

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Speaker 2: But you know, the idea that you would need a

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Speaker 2: vaccine or that you were willing to take the risk,

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Speaker 2: you know, with this new technology, it's it's all crazy.

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Speaker 2: And you know what's interesting about this too, if you

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Speaker 2: go back to twenty twenty and listen to what partisan

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Speaker 2: democrats are saying in September and October about the vaccine.

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Speaker 2: They said, you're not going to give this to me,

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Speaker 2: that's the Trump vaccine. There's no way I got to

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Speaker 2: take that. I don't want to have anything to do

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Speaker 2: with this shot. I don't know if it's what a

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Speaker 2: safety profile is. They were all saying this all over

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Speaker 2: the media, and then then the shot came out after

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Speaker 2: the election, and then suddenly, out of nowhere, all these

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Speaker 2: same people flipped in the opposite direction. They said, you're

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Speaker 2: a devil and ruining public health by not lining up

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Speaker 2: for your shot. Amazing. Did you know this too, That

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Speaker 2: Fauci directly intervened and delayed the release of the vaccines

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Speaker 2: until after the election. People don't know that, but it's

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Speaker 2: really true. It's a true story.

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Speaker 1: Take a quick commercial break back with Jeffrey Tucker. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to not look at the timeline and the sequencing

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Speaker 1: of things and not feel as if this was intentionally

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Speaker 1: weaponized to append a political election, you know, destroy a candidate,

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Speaker 1: and to control a population of people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and also implement you know, a wide range of

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Speaker 2: course of policies. I'm pretty sure that the intention was

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Speaker 2: to segregate every city by vaccine status and then give

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Speaker 2: us a national vaccine passport which would include all kinds

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Speaker 2: of health information, and that that would be rolled into

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Speaker 2: eventually a Chinese style social credit systems. I think that

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Speaker 2: was the goal. It didn't really work. I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: actually funny. In New York City or actually that stayed

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Speaker 2: in New York was one of the places where they

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Speaker 2: tried to play around with this digital vaccine passport, and

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Speaker 2: they never got it working right, just having spent tens

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Speaker 2: of billions of dollars on it. It really did flop.

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Speaker 1: It was unable to Unfortunately, they're too incompetent, you real,

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Speaker 1: Thank god, they're idiots.

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Speaker 2: It was so bad, you know, like if you got

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Speaker 2: if you got vaccinated in Connecticut, there was no way

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Speaker 2: for the New York app to take account to that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it really did only accommodate New York vaccination,

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Speaker 2: so nothing, and even then it just was flaky. It

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Speaker 2: was always crashing. So yeah, they finally have taken it offline,

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Speaker 2: but I think that was the intention. It didn't work.

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Speaker 2: But you know, I don't know if you've noticed this,

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Speaker 2: but I've felt now for several years, every one why

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Speaker 2: I feel as if we've had a victory, you know,

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Speaker 2: and but I've learned not to get too cocky about

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Speaker 2: that and go, we're winning. We're going to win this

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Speaker 2: great struggle because I feel like the bad guys in

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Speaker 2: this drama look at our victories as temporary setbacks.

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Speaker 1: It's never right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's never ending. This struggle is going to go

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Speaker 2: on and on. I feel like they didn't. They don't

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Speaker 2: think everything went perfectly well, but they're waiting and ready

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Speaker 2: to deploy it again. That's why you know all the

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Speaker 2: recent propaganda about you know, we've seen renewed mask mandates

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Speaker 2: and and now the FDA is a proven another booster.

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Speaker 2: And you know that and listeners should know this that

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Speaker 2: the best vaccine specialists at the FDA, the real high

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Speaker 2: end serious science is all resigned. They're gone. So you're

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Speaker 2: left now just with with bureaucrats are going to rubber

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Speaker 2: stamp anything that comes out from big pharma. And that's

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Speaker 2: that's why we got there s fe vaccine and and

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Speaker 2: and all these things, the over the over the counter,

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Speaker 2: birth control, all the stuff. And then you get another booster,

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Speaker 2: yet another you know, by variant, by valent YadA, YadA.

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Speaker 2: All this stuff is just going through as if it's nothing.

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Speaker 2: These are bureaucrats not paying any attention. They know that

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Speaker 2: that the big pharmaceutical companies pay their salary. They like

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Speaker 2: to be able to pay their mortgage and their second

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Speaker 2: mortgage and the third mortgage, and so they're going along

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Speaker 2: with the stuff just to just to for for career reasons.

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Speaker 2: The science seems to be just not even there anymore,

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Speaker 2: and nobody's even pretending it's it's all quite shocking.

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Speaker 1: Well, and that's the thing is because now we're left

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Speaker 1: in this atmosphere of distrust. And you know, I've always

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Speaker 1: just been you know, like my first couple of words

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Speaker 1: when I was younger, it was no, and then why

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Speaker 1: so like I've always been skeptical and like deeply distrustful

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Speaker 1: of those things as it you know from birth right,

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Speaker 1: this is just the way God made me. But now

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Speaker 1: it's like I don't trust anything that we're told. And now,

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Speaker 1: you know, I went from previously being you know, if

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Speaker 1: someone told me I should get vaccinated for something, I

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Speaker 1: would have been more trusting of it, probably would have

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Speaker 1: done it. Now Mike, I don't. Now I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: don't want anything. Like a nurse recently tried to get

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Speaker 1: me to get the flu vaccine about like you know,

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Speaker 1: I like Mortal Kombat, Hitor Like I was like, no,

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Speaker 1: you know, So now I don't trust any like I

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Speaker 1: mean even like I mean, it would have to be

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Speaker 1: I don't even know at this point under what circumstance

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Speaker 1: I would trust a new vaccine. If I'm being perfectly honest.

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Speaker 2: You can be perfectly honest, and I I understand your position,

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Speaker 2: and I find myself agreeing with it more and more.

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Speaker 2: And what's what's fascinating to me is that, you know,

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Speaker 2: when I started Brownstone, people started saying, oh, another anti

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Speaker 2: vax and I didn't even understand what that meant. I've

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Speaker 2: never met an anti vaccine. I didn't have any anti

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Speaker 2: vaccine feelings. I didn't think this vaccine was necessary. I

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Speaker 2: didn't imagine really that would be actually dangerous. But I

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Speaker 2: didn't have any real biases about the whole thing. I

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Speaker 2: was against the lockdowns, and I knew that masking was dumb,

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Speaker 2: and the plexi glass and the dusting with hand saturnized,

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Speaker 2: you know, this whole frenzy we went through. I thought

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Speaker 2: that was all ridiculous. But I didn't have a particular

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Speaker 2: antipathy towards the vaccine industry. But nowadays, yeah, it's really different.

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Speaker 2: I read this whole book called, I'm sure we've heard

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Speaker 2: of it, called Turtles all the Way Down, which really

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Speaker 2: examines the industry in detail and the history behind the vaccines,

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Speaker 2: and especially since nineteen day six, since all these countries

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Speaker 2: have been indemnified, you know, against any liability for harms

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Speaker 2: from their vaccines. You know, we've just seen them proliferate

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Speaker 2: like crazy. It's, as RFK says, it's a goal rush.

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Speaker 2: And now I've become gravely skeptical myself. I'm just not

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Speaker 2: sure how many people join us in this attitude. I'm

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Speaker 2: certainly more now than before, but I'm not sure. Part

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Speaker 2: of me worries that there's enough Americans that are not

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Speaker 2: sufficiently incredulous towards these things. That is going to continue

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Speaker 2: to incentivize these large pharmaceutical companies to keep cranking out

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Speaker 2: the potions, you know, just just just to keep their

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Speaker 2: sales high and their stock price, you know, from tanking.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think what worries me is this growing schism

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Speaker 1: and in separation between the people in charge and the

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Speaker 1: rest of America. And you know, for instance, you have

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Speaker 1: former head of the FDA who's now cashing in on

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Speaker 1: the Fizer board, who's on TV talking about how there's

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Speaker 1: no evidence this new variant is deadlier. However, you know

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Speaker 1: it's highly you know mutated and escaping vaccine immune systems, which,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, the other or the other the other

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Speaker 1: variants seemed pretty adept at escaping vaccine immunation, uh, you

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Speaker 1: know immunity as well. Right, So, but you know point

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Speaker 1: being is this dude's cashing in off of this pushing

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Speaker 1: fear on this new COVID variant just in time when

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Speaker 1: these vaccine manufacturers are going to be out with a

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Speaker 1: new booster. And you know, and and who can like

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Speaker 1: these people just don't care about us, right, they don't

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Speaker 1: care about the safety of what they're pushing on us.

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Speaker 1: Politicians don't care about the wreckage and the damage that

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Speaker 1: they did to so many Americans, you know, because they

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Speaker 1: were celebrating with their families for Thanksgiving, Like doctor Burks,

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Speaker 1: did you know they told you to stay at home,

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Speaker 1: but then they're hanging out with their families. They tell

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Speaker 1: you to stay at home, but then Obama's throwing ragers

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Speaker 1: in Martha's vineyard. And there's just this massive growing disconnect

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Speaker 1: with the people who are telling us what to do,

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Speaker 1: who are unscathed than the process and don't care about

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Speaker 1: the damage and the wreckage that they're leaving on the

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Speaker 1: rest of America. And like, I don't know how long

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Speaker 1: that can continue. And I think more people are waking

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Speaker 1: up to just how much bullshit it all is.

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Speaker 2: It's creepy how the public discussion of all these topics

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Speaker 2: that are dominating this little session is kind of been

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Speaker 2: shut down. I was really alarmed about the GOP debate

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Speaker 2: the other night that really none of these topics were

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Speaker 2: really discussed at all. And of course you noticed that

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Speaker 2: most of the advertisers that were backing that debate were

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Speaker 2: pharma companies. I mean, I think within the first ten minutes,

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Speaker 2: I saw four ads for FTA Proved Drugs and I thought,

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Speaker 2: h but it just wasn't a topic. I mean, your

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Speaker 2: Rond de Santis tried to bring it up, but nobody

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Speaker 2: else picked up the thread. So the thing just sort

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Speaker 2: of fizzled. And at some point the one of the

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Speaker 2: moderators asked Pence whether he feels that the Trump administration

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Speaker 2: bears some responsibility for the learning loss since the school

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Speaker 2: closures began under his administration. I set up. I was

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Speaker 2: really excited. I thought, oh, well, now we're going to

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Speaker 2: finally get some truth. Well you know what he did.

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Speaker 2: He completely ignored the question, completely ignored it, and they

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Speaker 2: never returned to it again. That was it. Now you

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Speaker 2: mentioned Scott Gottlieb. You know that guy is a piece

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Speaker 2: of work. You know, he goes on these these shows

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Speaker 2: all the time, you know, MSNBC and CNN and everything,

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Speaker 2: and that guy rattles off the most amazing just litany

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Speaker 2: of gibberish about all the new variants, and he's got

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Speaker 2: all the names down Pat New's X one, you know,

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Speaker 2: B and five in whatever. He sounds like this expert.

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Speaker 2: But people don't understand about Godlieb. You know, he was

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Speaker 2: picked to be head of the FDA in two thousand.

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Speaker 2: I guess toenty seventeen and then left immediately went to

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Speaker 2: the piz Award when when Fauci and Burks and these

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Speaker 2: people were leaning on Trump to sort of green light

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Speaker 2: the lockdowns, and this would have been the weekend of

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Speaker 2: March fourteenth and fifteenth, because Saturday and Sunday, when they

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Speaker 2: were trying to figure out just how severe the CDC

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Speaker 2: edicts should be, they got Gottlieb on the phone and

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Speaker 2: he was one of the main influences behind the initial lockdowns.

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Speaker 2: And I know this because I think Jered Christian reports

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Speaker 2: in his book, and Gottlieb said something to the gang

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Speaker 2: of people gathered there that if you think you're going

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Speaker 2: too far, then that's probably about the right amount. So

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Speaker 2: Godleeb was massively influential and shutting down your churches and

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Speaker 2: closing small businesses and closing playgrounds, and the closure of

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Speaker 2: the schools, and the capacity restrictions on homes where I

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Speaker 2: lived at the time, you couldn't have more than ten

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Speaker 2: people and your house, no matter how big it was,

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Speaker 2: So you know, weddings were off, funerals were off, everything

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Speaker 2: was off. Godly himself had a huge role in making

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Speaker 2: all that happen.

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Speaker 1: And then cash is in on all of it. With

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Speaker 1: the vaccine.

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Speaker 2: Just to put a hind point on it, he certainly

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Speaker 2: has cashed in on all of it. And if you

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Speaker 2: draw attention to the facts to him, he just blows up.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, there's a whole generation of sort of leaders

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Speaker 2: in industry and media and in politics and in academia

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Speaker 2: that really need to be called to account for what

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Speaker 2: they did to us. But it is not happening. We've

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Speaker 2: just we just have this weird silence going on. And

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Speaker 2: to your point about this disconnect between public opinion and

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Speaker 2: the ruling class sort of elites in this country, it

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Speaker 2: is growing wider by the day because everybody I know,

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Speaker 2: and really everybody in this country and billions of people

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Speaker 2: around the world, have lasting trauma, having grown out of

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Speaker 2: the calamity of the last three and a half years,

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Speaker 2: and we all know about it. We're all seeking answers.

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Speaker 2: We want to know what were you thinking? You know,

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Speaker 2: who did this? And why what happened to our bill

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Speaker 2: of rights? We have all these burning questions. We're not

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Speaker 2: getting answers to them. And meanwhile, all the sort of

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Speaker 2: official molders of the public mind are pretending like this

431
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 2: never happened.

432
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: There's also not been an accounting or truth telling about

433
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: the amount of damage that this has done to so

434
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 1: many lives, in the sense of people who died of

435
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: overdoses from depression or loneliness, suicides from depression, of being

436
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: locked in people's homes, losing their jobs, not being able

437
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: to go into work, being denied a purpose in life.

438
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: You know, family members who died alone, funerals that were

439
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: unattended because they were not you know, family members are

440
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: not allowed to tend people who've lost businesses, you know,

441
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: people who've lost their livelihoods. It's like there just hasn't

442
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 1: been a full accounting, a real attempt to just truly

443
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 1: get to the bottom of the damage and the destruction

444
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: and the wreckage that these government policies, not COVID, but

445
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 1: government policies have destroyed lives.

446
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 2: The learning losses, you know, a whole generation of high

447
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 2: school students graduating, you know, with with unable to really

448
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,959
Speaker 2: wouldn't count as literate by any historical standard. I mean,

449
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 2: the number of families that were just were separated from

450
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 2: the travel restrictions, the divorces that took place, you know,

451
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 2: over arguments about whether the vaccinates to children. I mean,

452
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 2: I know many cases of that. The whole vaccination question

453
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 2: just broke up civic groups and families and churches and bands,

454
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 2: and the same thing with masking. You know that that

455
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 2: was a brutal period too. It's like, where's your mask?

456
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 2: Where's your mask? Well, I don't think they really worked. Well,

457
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 2: screw you. I mean it was the most divisive and

458
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 2: culturally destructive period that I've ever seen in my life.

459
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 2: And everybody has a story. There's I don't think there's

460
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 2: any exceptions this. People have such sad stories to tell

461
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 2: over the last three years, and You're right, there's just

462
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 2: not been a serious reckoning, and I you know, I

463
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 2: don't entirely know what to do about it. I really

464
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 2: hope the debates the other night we're going to get

465
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 2: some honesty and truth about this. Instead the moderators just

466
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 2: just just pretended like the whole thing didn't really happen,

467
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 2: and it's tremendously troubling. I have an article this morning

468
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 2: on Brown called the Great game of Let's pretend something

469
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 2: like that, and it really is, let's pretend that this

470
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 2: never happened. That there's no real crisis. And if you

471
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 2: think about the things that are vexing us right now

472
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 2: in this country, like this inflation, you know, twenty thirty

473
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 2: percent in three years in grocery prices, in the housing inflation,

474
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 2: and all the things that are wiping that have wiped

475
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 2: out middle class prosperity. Those all trace to policies pursued

476
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 2: in the name of of COVID controls and the status

477
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 2: of major cities in this country, from Seattle to Portland,

478
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 2: New York City, at Chicago and Boston, Hartford and so on.

479
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 2: It's these cities are falling apart. People are not going

480
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 2: back to work, Petty crime has taken over New York,

481
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 2: and every major city smells like weed, you know, because

482
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 2: of all the substances that people turn to just to

483
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 2: get through things. I mean, it's it's it's maybe not

484
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 2: quite apocalyptic, but it certainly headed that way. And yeah,

485
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 2: we need some honesty and truth about this. I really hoped,

486
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 2: beginning in March twenty twenty, that there would but in

487
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 2: quickly and that everybody would apologize and we'd go on

488
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 2: with our lives and never do it again. That has

489
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 2: not happened.

490
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: Well, Omicron was the best thing that happened to this

491
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: country because I think it deprogrammed people who still thought

492
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: they could outrun an outrunnable virus. But to your point,

493
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: you know, we've talked a lot in the past sense,

494
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: and this is in the present sense, and you know,

495
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: and with inflation and the wreckage done to the economy

496
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: that we're going to be continuing to deal with for

497
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: god knows how long, the loss of freedom that you know,

498
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: we may never get back in this country. And also

499
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: I just think the destruction of the soul of the

500
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: country as well as the soul of so many Americans.

501
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: I mean, it just seems like we have more broken

502
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: people that we have ever had before as a result

503
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: of lockdowns and the fee and the turning neighbors against

504
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: neighbors and the other ring of people. It just seems

505
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: like we are a broken nation with broken people. And

506
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: maybe we've always been, but it has definitely gotten worse

507
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: since COVID and since the government did this to our country.

508
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 2: The whole theme of the United States was believed all

509
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: over the world is this idea of freedom, and it

510
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 2: was instantiated in the idea of limited government with the

511
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 2: Constitution and guaranteed through the Bill of Rights. I mean,

512
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 2: that is the theme of American history. That's our great

513
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 2: contribution to the world. Everybody looks in the United States

514
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 2: for what freedom is and what it feels like, and

515
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 2: it's built the greatest nation in history and so on.

516
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 2: Then we just just decided to get rid of it

517
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 2: one day. And look what it did. It just utterly

518
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 2: You're exactly right. It crushed the soul of this country.

519
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: It robbed us of even things like, you know, our

520
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 2: religious freedom. I was talking to a east friend of

521
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 2: mine the other day in the Midwest, and we were

522
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 2: talking about just how shocking it was that for how

523
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 2: long the church has closed, and then the churches, you know,

524
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 2: mask their parishioners, and then you know that you know,

525
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 2: even many many imposed vaccine restrictions. But he was talking

526
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 2: about what it was like in Easter of twenty twenty,

527
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 2: all the churches were closing. He just had some sense

528
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: that he didn't go into the priesthood to close his

529
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 2: church to his parishoners on Holy Week in Easter. He

530
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 2: just felt like that was not right, and so he

531
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 2: went to his bishop and he said, look, I'm going

532
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 2: to open my church and the bishop said, well, you

533
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 2: can't do that. I absolutely forbid it. And my priest

534
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 2: friend friend said, well, you know what, I'm going to

535
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 2: do it anyway, and you can just fire me if

536
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 2: you want to, but I'm going to do my religious duty.

537
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 2: And the bishop said, well, you're just you're just pretending,

538
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 2: not really gonna. You're not gonna let me just fire you.

539
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 2: And the priest said, look, just try me. I mean,

540
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: this is my vocation. There's my whole life. If I

541
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 2: don't celebrate Mass on Easter for my parishioners, what's my

542
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: life worth? And the priests and the bishop never gave

543
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 2: him permission, but then also stopped threatening him. So when

544
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 2: the time came, to avoid the media eyes and to

545
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 2: avoid local government officials, he turned the lights extremely low

546
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 2: in the in his church and spread the word quietly

547
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 2: throughout his whole congregation that you can come celebrate Holy

548
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 2: Week services and Easter, but come in the back interest

549
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 2: and entrants so that the media cameras wouldn't be able

550
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 2: to see, and park, you know, several blocks away, and

551
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 2: scatter your cars out. And they did, and they came

552
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 2: in and had really completely packed church for that for

553
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 2: those services. But he had to do it surreptitiously. It's

554
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 2: an extraordinary story because it seems simply incredible that something

555
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 2: like that would have happened in the United States, a

556
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 2: country that really gave this gift of religious liberty to

557
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: the world. You know, we're the greatest practitioners of that.

558
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 2: We put it in our First Amendment, and then just

559
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 2: one day, boom, it was gone.

560
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: But it was perfectly fine to exercise your First Amendment.

561
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: If you're writing burning buildings down in the streets, that

562
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: was fine. But God forbid you want to go to church,

563
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: quick break, stay with us. I actually don't know your politics,

564
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: which is probably a good thing, but I mean, we

565
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:48,719
Speaker 1: all know where Joe Biden has stood on lockdowns and vaccines,

566
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: and you know, so we all know his record. If

567
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: you had assess some of the Republican front runners, when

568
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: you look at Trump, when you look at Disanta's or

569
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: you look at vi Vague, how do you assess their

570
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 1: response to COVID and you know what, you might think

571
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: they might handle something heading down the pike if, if

572
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 1: God forbid, they do this again.

573
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 2: I have big thoughts on that. So, speaking of Biden,

574
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 2: by the way, I really had every hope yes, I'm

575
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 2: very naive. I had very hope, every hope that after

576
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 2: the inauguration he would just say, well, we got the vaccine,

577
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 2: we went to this COVID thing, and now let's just

578
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 2: go back to normal. He didn't. He went the opposite way.

579
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 2: He's the one who gave us the mask mandates, right,

580
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,879
Speaker 2: remember those where you couldn't ride a bus or get

581
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 2: on the plane without it, and people are screaming at

582
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 2: you get that mask over here, and now I was well, yeah,

583
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 2: but on the other hand, I have to breathe. And

584
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 2: then you know, then he gave us the vaccine mandates.

585
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 2: So he made everything much worse. Now in terms of

586
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 2: the GP people, you know, the did not perform very well,

587
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 2: but among them all and Vivac is an interesting case

588
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,439
Speaker 2: because he's a good friend of mine, by the way,

589
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 2: and we were talking all the time before he became president,

590
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 2: and he talks now, you know, just a great game

591
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 2: on all this stuff. However, his book that's out there

592
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:23,240
Speaker 2: called The Nation of Victims is not against these controls.

593
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 2: I mean, he was celebrating the vaccines and he was not.

594
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 2: He never really was against the lockdowns, that sort of thing.

595
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 2: I think he's had a change of heart, and I

596
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 2: have to trust that he's right about that. So now DeSantis,

597
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 2: of all the governors, well the best governor in the country,

598
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 2: hands down, it was Christino of South Dakota.

599
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: And she's she's the population in South Dakota is a

600
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: little bit different than some of these other you know,

601
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: than like Georgia for Kemp or even Florida for DeSantis.

602
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 1: Do you think, I mean, does that have a role

603
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: in it? Or am I no?

604
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,720
Speaker 2: I mean she made that decision because she really didn't

605
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 2: believe that she as governor had the power to shut

606
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 2: down business as a church is that sort of thing,

607
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 2: And she was incredulous in the beginning, just and they

608
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 2: have you know, yeah, it's not a tremendously dense population,

609
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 2: but that's real city is in normal life, and that

610
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 2: sort she just wouldn't go along. Why she was allowed

611
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 2: to get away with that, you know, I have some

612
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 2: sense I wonder if she were here, if she would

613
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 2: agree with me that a large large parts of this

614
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 2: country just hear the name South Dakota and go, hey,

615
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 2: who cares? You know, it's just a state that doesn't

616
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 2: matter a lot in people's minds. So somehow she got

617
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 2: away with it. The very next state to open up was,

618
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 2: of course Georgia, with with Kemp who started who got

619
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 2: crucified by the Trump administration particularly. But and the other

620
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 2: thing about the Georgia case is that there are a

621
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:58,760
Speaker 2: lot of local lockdowns in Georgia that he couldn't really control,

622
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 2: but as a state he just he said, look, I'm

623
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 2: sick of this these code regulations. The very next one was,

624
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 2: of course DeSantis, and DeSantis has tremendous regrets about ever

625
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:13,919
Speaker 2: having gone along with any lockdowns, and he's the one

626
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 2: governor in the country that actually apologized to his people

627
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 2: forever having lockdown and he did. He did close some beaches,

628
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 2: and he did he did close some of the stories

629
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 2: for a time, maybe a few weeks, and that sort

630
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 2: of thing. Bye, I would say bye bye. Certainly, by

631
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 2: May he had lost all interest in lockdowns and the

632
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 2: spring break was, you know, in Florida was full. And

633
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 2: then he really leaned in and started reading the scientific

634
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 2: papers on his own and coming to his own judgments.

635
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 2: He got a new group of advisors, many of whom

636
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 2: were my friends, and they really coached him on this

637
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 2: idea of focused protection and just encouraging people to just

638
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 2: go about their lives. But you know, if you're elderly,

639
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 2: if you're actually vulnerable, then be careful in that sort

640
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 2: of thing. So he had over all the best policies,

641
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 2: and he's the most conversant in the issue. And also,

642
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 2: Florida today is the only state in the country that

643
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 2: has legislation against lockdown. It's like, you know, there's a

644
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 2: law in Florida that you cannot lockdown and you cannot

645
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 2: impose mask mandates, you cannot impose a vaccine mandates. So

646
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 2: that's true. It's the only state forwards that's true. And

647
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 2: so I think descientists, among all of them, is the

648
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 2: most scientifically literate, the most passionate on the subject, and

649
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 2: the one most determined to prevent ever having a lockdown again.

650
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 2: And so of the of all the people in the running,

651
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 2: he's the one that I think is most trustworthy on

652
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 2: the topic, despite some missteps in the early early times.

653
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 2: Now let me just speak to the Trump issue. It's

654
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 2: a little vertifying to me that he's never really come

655
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 2: to terms with his role in this whole thing. He

656
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 2: swears he did everything right. It should it's obvious even

657
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,479
Speaker 2: to his most strongest supporters that that is not true,

658
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 2: and I really do think it's up to Trump to

659
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 2: give us a real accounting of exactly what happened. You know,

660
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 2: on March ninth, twenty twenty, he was posting this as

661
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 2: a flu. It's gonna come, it's gonna go. We're gonna

662
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 2: be fine. We don't shut things down for the flu.

663
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 2: On the eleventh, he changed his mind, so he sent

664
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 2: out a tweet and said, we'll use all the whole

665
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 2: whole government response to battle and defeat this virus. So

666
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 2: he flipped on March tenth thereabout, and he's never really

667
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 2: explained to anybody what it is that happened that caused

668
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 2: him to change his mind and when precisely he lost

669
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,399
Speaker 2: confidence that these sort of lockdowns were a good thing.

670
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,879
Speaker 2: Deborah Burgh reports that after April first, he stopped talking

671
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 2: to her, that he was actually angry, and it really

672
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 2: took him several months. But even as late as June

673
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 2: and July, he was tweeting out that Sweden didn't do

674
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,240
Speaker 2: it the right way. They should have locked down, because

675
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 2: we know that's not true. By August, Scott Outless had

676
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 2: arrived in Washington and they were hanging out, you know,

677
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 2: every day, they were watching movies together in the evenings.

678
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 2: They became best friends, eating meals together, and Scott Outless

679
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 2: gave him a tutorial and urology and epidemiology and talked

680
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 2: him through the authentic science of this thing, and Trump

681
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 2: changed his mind completely. And that was when he started

682
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 2: telling everybody to open up. But it's all very strange.

683
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 2: He never got rid of the emergency declarations, and he

684
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 2: never issued any kind of executive order to open up,

685
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 2: and he never really got control of the CDC and

686
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 2: the NIH and Fauci's little regime. So it was it

687
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 2: was all a little bit mystifying, but I would say

688
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 2: it really ruined his last year of the Trump presidency.

689
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 2: And then let's also remember that all the problems with

690
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 2: mail in ballots began with the COVID controls. Do you

691
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 2: remember that. Yeah, So you know, if you think the

692
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 2: election was stolen, I mean, one of the major contributing

693
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,760
Speaker 2: factors to that whole thing was the mail in ballots.

694
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 2: And all the confusion over that whole thing, well that

695
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 2: was all unleashed as a result of COVID controls. So

696
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 2: you know, he bears some responsibility for this himself. So

697
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,760
Speaker 2: I would just like to see him speak honestly and openly.

698
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,320
Speaker 2: I hoped that Tucker Carlsoner was going to do that

699
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 2: the other night, but he didn't.

700
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 1: I've got to take a quick break more on the

701
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: COVID craziness. Yeah, there's not been a lot of accountability

702
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,240
Speaker 1: yet with the Republican candidates of really getting the bottom

703
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 1: of this stuff, which is, you know, sad, because this

704
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: is probably one of the most defining moments, if not

705
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: the defining moment in our lifetimes. You know, you've actually

706
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: you opened my eyes to Christine. Know. I think I've

707
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: been tough on her, and it was ever since she

708
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 1: cave to the NCAA initially on women's sports. I think

709
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: I kind of just like she lost me after that,

710
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: and so I think I probably have not given her

711
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: the recognition she deserves on COVID as a result of that.

712
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: So I've probably been unfair.

713
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's she's good now. People in South Dakota tell

714
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 2: me that you can give her too much credit. That actually,

715
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 2: in fact, she faced a tremendous amount of pressure from

716
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 2: her own state legislature to not lockdown that and I've

717
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 2: seen these she was initially inclined to lockdown and go

718
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,879
Speaker 2: along with CDC, and then the state legislature said, there's

719
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 2: no way you're not gonna You're not gonna do that

720
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 2: here in South Dakota. So then she backed off. But

721
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 2: still she was good. She was good. She deserves a

722
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 2: lot of credit.

723
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: Before we go, you had posted something I think it

724
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: was yesterday or something. I gave it a retweet because

725
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: there were so many people, like so many doctors that

726
00:42:55,400 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: took such personal hits to their reputations for telling the truth.

727
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: You know, Jay Baticharia, doctor Atlas, Martin Colder, I mean

728
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: they're colder. For like, there was a long list of

729
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: people Martin McCarey who were truth tellers during all of this,

730
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: and he posted a column from doctor John E. Neides

731
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: of Stanford. He's a world renowned epidemiologist. He wrote in

732
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 1: Harvey Risch, I mean, there's so many people that you know,

733
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: you can name that were really just brave and truth

734
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: tellers and all of this. But doctor John E. Neides

735
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: wrote this up ed in stat News at the very beginning,

736
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 1: right after the lockdowns. He totally reshaped my thinking on

737
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 1: all of this. He opened my eyes and then since

738
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 1: then I looked at this as a totally different person.

739
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: He was kind enough to answer questions that I sent him.

740
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: You know, I did my best to get his word out,

741
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 1: you know, roteap ed in the hill, trying to try

742
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: to push this out to the public as much as

743
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: I could. But the sad thing is he was right

744
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: about everything from the very beginning.

745
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 2: Uh LISSI you did this in March, in April of

746
00:43:57,960 --> 00:43:58,760
Speaker 2: twenty twenty.

747
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 1: Yep, at the very beginning of all this. Because I

748
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 1: read his I read his up ed and I said,

749
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 1: you know what, this guy's the old because I worked

750
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 1: in polling before, and so I've worked in data. I've

751
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: you know, this is like my backgrounds in politics, but

752
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: I've also I worked as a vice president pulling for

753
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: a period of time, so I you know, data is

754
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: something that registers with me. And his obed just made

755
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,359
Speaker 1: so much sense. And I read it and I said,

756
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,240
Speaker 1: this guy is the only person that makes sense. Proceeded

757
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: to ask him a billion questions. He was kind enough

758
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: to take the time to respond to all my questions thoroughly.

759
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: And this went on for a while, and then I

760
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 1: befriended other people. You know, some of the names I've

761
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: mentioned before of people that were truth tellers and all

762
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,839
Speaker 1: this who also gave me information and then so really

763
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 1: from the beginning, but it was because of him. I

764
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: didn't know this stuff on my own. It was solely

765
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 1: because of doctor John Edie E. Needy's in this opbed

766
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: that he wrote in stat News. But the point is,

767
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: like all of this could have been avoided. I mean,

768
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: there were people out there who are world renowned, right,

769
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 1: like not even just it's not like he's some you know,

770
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: side show out there. I mean, this man is brilliant

771
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: and he warned us from the beginning, and no one listened,

772
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 1: or at least not at first when they should have.

773
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 2: You know, that ought that that professional God bless you.

774
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 2: I mean that's just great. I mean you should you

775
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 2: deserve a medal for that.

776
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 1: No, but it was him. It's because of him.

777
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 2: You know. That article came out March seventeenth, and it's

778
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 2: a very powerful article. Is prophetic. You better go read it.

779
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 2: It's everything he says that article is right. He says

780
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 2: we don't have the data to demonstrate that any of

781
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 2: the stuff isn't necessary, or that any of the means

782
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 2: we're using to control as virus are actually going to

783
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 2: achieve their ends. And they're going to cause enormous amount

784
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 2: of damage. And you're right about his status as a scientist,

785
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 2: you know, he he was, you know, one of the

786
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 2: great scientists in the country and at a leading epidemiologist,

787
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 2: and he had written, he had a huge publications record

788
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 2: that was celebrated by everybody in New York Times, the Atlantic.

789
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 2: I mean, he's just a great now hero. And he

790
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 2: said on March seventeenth, the day after the initial uh

791
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 2: A lockdown press conference in Washington, that this was a calamity,

792
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 2: that we should be stopping this. And I don't know

793
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 2: why that article didn't have a bigger impact than it did.

794
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 2: We should have everything should have stopped instantly after that

795
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 2: article appeared.

796
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 1: I think that it was intentionally ignored. I think there

797
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 1: was a desire to push fear is what is this?

798
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:30,359
Speaker 1: You know, because I remember I even got the White

799
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: House on record, and you know what, screw it, Screw

800
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:34,359
Speaker 1: doctor Debor Brooks. It was her. She was the one

801
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: I got her team on record saying that they were

802
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 1: going to do a representative sample, that they're going to

803
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: do a Sarah prevalence study to try to figure out

804
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: how deadly COVID actually was. Because the problem was that

805
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: we were missing cases, you know, by like sixty five fold,

806
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 1: so the fatality rate was totally skewed. So we're operating

807
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 1: off of a BS baseline from the beginning, which was

808
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: the point of doctor E. Nei D's a ED and

809
00:46:58,239 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: they said they were going to do it, and then

810
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 1: like they do it. No, So there really wasn't even

811
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 1: ever a desire to from you know, and not you know,

812
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: for doctor Burke's and doctor Fauci and these people who

813
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: are supposed to these public health bureaucrats to ever actually

814
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 1: find the truth so that we are operating and making

815
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 1: good decisions off of a proper baseline.

816
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 2: Ron DeSantis tells the story of getting calling up Debora

817
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 2: Burks and saying something to her like, do you have it?

818
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 2: Do we know any of this stuff's actually gonna work? What?

819
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 2: What actually is the goal? Are you trying to eradicate

820
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 2: this virus? I mean, what what's going on? And how

821
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 2: do we know any of these these great tools that

822
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:36,800
Speaker 2: you're telling me to implement are actually going to achieve

823
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 2: their goal? She said, she said. He says that she

824
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 2: said to him, well, we don't really know. It's a

825
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 2: kind of a real time science experiment. And after that,

826
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 2: Desantas said, he just began to kind of lose all

827
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:58,359
Speaker 2: faith and in the in the Deep State and their

828
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 2: and their disease plans. Yeah, and we shouldn't we shouldn't

829
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 2: leave this without mentioning the fact that there was no

830
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,359
Speaker 2: plan at all for what to do when people got sick,

831
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:13,799
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, we went through a whole year,

832
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 2: the first year of COVID, when it was most wicked,

833
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:21,320
Speaker 2: without any recommendations coming from nih CDC on what you

834
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 2: should do if you're sick beyond take biband, get getting ventilated,

835
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 2: which you know kills you, you know, eight or nine

836
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 2: out of ten times, either from the ventilation itself or

837
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 2: from the inevitable secondary infections you get from ventilation. And

838
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,720
Speaker 2: the other one was the Fauci's favorite drug called remdesivir,

839
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 2: which is just you know, also nicknamed run death is

840
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 2: Near so and and and the repurposed generic drugs were

841
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 2: completely off the table. I mean, where I lived, there

842
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 2: was no chance of getting iromactin. When I finally did

843
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 2: get sick, and I got really sick, this would have

844
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:06,839
Speaker 2: been in January of twenty two, I could not get

845
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 2: I remced I finally had to have a friend who

846
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 2: drove from New York who got I remixed him from

847
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 2: India and brought it over to me. This is in

848
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 2: the United States of America, and I had a doctor's prescription,

849
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 2: but nobody would give it to me. I mean, I

850
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 2: went from pharmacy to pharmacy to pharmacy and nobody would

851
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 2: give it to me. So this really happened in this country.

852
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: I could talk to you forever about this, you know,

853
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: before we go. Is there anything else you'd like to

854
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: leave us.

855
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,800
Speaker 2: With, I would say, Liza, we desperately need some you know,

856
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 2: not just a public reckoning and a serious conversation about this,

857
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 2: and I would even like to have some apologies, right,

858
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,399
Speaker 2: but also we need serious changes. The same people who

859
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 2: did this before are still in power now. The successor

860
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 2: to what's her name at CDC, you know, is a

861
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 2: devote as a devout follower of Fauci. The new head

862
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,240
Speaker 2: of NIH is the same thing. I mean, there's nothing

863
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 2: that's really changed, and this is what we've got to

864
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 2: fix this problem. We need a dramatic reform so we

865
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 2: can guarantee this will never happen again, and we need

866
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 2: a real reckoning. I don't see how we move forward

867
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 2: as a nation until we have a really blunt public

868
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 2: conversation about this and some serious changes in the way

869
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 2: the government operates to make sure this never happens again.

870
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 2: So thank you, Lisa for doing your part to fight

871
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 2: this for the last three and a half years. I

872
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,439
Speaker 2: think it's just heroic what you've done, and I'm glad

873
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 2: you have me on your podcast today.

874
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: Well, same to you in finding the Brownstone Institute. I

875
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: read it often, and you publish a lot of brilliant

876
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 1: people and have a lot of brilliant minds and a

877
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:49,839
Speaker 1: lot of truth tellers who have been trying to tell

878
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 1: us from the beginning that this was all nonsense. So

879
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: I appreciate you for starting it and for working to

880
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:57,839
Speaker 1: get the truth out there.

881
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:00,439
Speaker 2: Well, let's just keep our ching up in keep going,

882
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 2: because I think we can eventually win this. But even

883
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 2: if we don't, we're doing the right thing. And in

884
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 2: some sense, your voice is really really necessary, and I

885
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 2: do believe what Brownstone's doing is extremely important too, for

886
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 2: the sake of human liberty, for the sake of human dignity,

887
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 2: for the survival of civilization. Because I tell you what

888
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,800
Speaker 2: you cannot have a free and civilized society under lockdowns.

889
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 1: Well said Jeffrey, Thanks so much for taking the time

890
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 1: to join the show. I really appreciate it. I've enjoyed

891
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: this conversation and I appreciate you taking the time.

892
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 2: Such a pleasure. Thank you, Lisa.

893
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 1: That was Jeffrey Tucker, founder and president at the Brownstone Institute.

894
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 1: Appreciate him taking the time to join the show. Appreciate

895
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 1: you at home for listening every Monday and Thursday, but

896
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:50,399
Speaker 1: you can listen throughout the week. I want to thank

897
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 1: John Cassio, my producer, for putting the show together. Until

898
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 1: next time.