Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, and this is next question.
Speaker 1: Gwen Walls is about as wholesome as you can get,
Speaker 1: and their romance really is straight out of Friday Night Lights.
Speaker 1: So here she is talking about her experiences on the
Speaker 1: campaign trail and as a wife and mother. So take
Speaker 1: a listen. I think you'll really learn a lot about
Speaker 1: her and I'm going to try my hardest to get
Speaker 1: her great grandmother's ginger snap recipe. Stay tuned. First of all,
Speaker 1: it is so nice to meet you. I'm assuming it's
Speaker 1: okay if I call you Gwen. Please call me Gwen, yes, please, Well,
Speaker 1: thank you for talking to us on this Saturday morning.
Speaker 1: And I imagine the last few months for you, Gwen,
Speaker 1: have brought new meaning to the word whirlwind. How would
Speaker 1: you describe what you've been going through through?
Speaker 2: Well, let me say again, thank you for having me,
Speaker 2: And maybe the last few months can be kind.
Speaker 3: Of crystallized in this.
Speaker 2: Moment, because I never imagined I would be on a
Speaker 2: podcast or an interview or any sort of thing with
Speaker 2: Katie Curic. So that's kind of what it's like. You know,
Speaker 2: it was it was a fast process, and you know,
Speaker 2: we were we were busy with our lives being governor
Speaker 2: and first lady in Minnesota and our kids, and you know,
Speaker 2: I would have been door knocking and uh calling and
Speaker 2: working on elections in Minnesota and also governors races. And
Speaker 2: so when we got this call, we say it was
Speaker 2: a it was a different call, but I wasn't even home,
Speaker 2: and so I was speaking of all the superintendents in
Speaker 2: Minnesota getting ready for the start of school.
Speaker 3: And we said, you.
Speaker 2: Know, my mom has to sink when you have to
Speaker 2: do the work that's in front of you. And so
Speaker 2: when that became the work in front of us, we
Speaker 2: shifted into gear. But I you know, I'm telling you
Speaker 2: the truth on this. It is it is a new
Speaker 2: experience and fantastic in so many ways, like that I'm
Speaker 2: in Michigan right now and getting to see these amazing
Speaker 2: places and meet people across the country, which is all
Speaker 2: very exciting and learning and listening. But it you know,
Speaker 2: there are challenges that come with it too, like some
Speaker 2: people say not very nice things or things that aren't true.
Speaker 2: And I'm traveling a lot more and it's, you know, Gus,
Speaker 2: the senior year, so I have to balance like the
Speaker 2: homecoming stuff with the political stuff and figuring that out
Speaker 2: is what every mom in America is doing. It's just
Speaker 2: maybe on a bit of a different scale. But I
Speaker 2: also have a great staff and great friends and a
Speaker 2: fantastic family of three sisters, and they are all super helpful.
Speaker 1: I'm sure your schedule, Gwinn has been absolutely bonkers. I mean,
Speaker 1: all the candidates are in full gear as we are
Speaker 1: in the home stretch of this election. What kinds of
Speaker 1: things are you hearing out on the campaign trail, because
Speaker 1: I know you've been going to blue areas and to
Speaker 1: red areas. Are you noticing a big difference in people's
Speaker 1: concerns and those two different parts of the country.
Speaker 3: Well, I think you know.
Speaker 2: I'm a teacher and a school administrator and director, and
Speaker 2: so the power of listening is survival those in those environments,
Speaker 2: and it is too out on the trail, and it's
Speaker 2: a privilege for people to tell you their stories and
Speaker 2: tell you their concerns. And interestingly, we all have very
Speaker 2: similar concerns and there are people who might approach those
Speaker 2: concerns differently. But where Tim and I taught and lived
Speaker 2: for twenty two years in man Cato in the first
Speaker 2: Congressional District, that was a district that was really more
Speaker 2: Republican than Democrat, and Tim won that race six times.
Speaker 2: I say, we won that race six times. And we're
Speaker 2: used to working with and being around people who might
Speaker 2: not see every single issue exactly the way that you
Speaker 2: see it. But finding a way forward is important. So
Speaker 2: the conversations I'm getting to have and getting to listen
Speaker 2: to and participate in are what's the way forward here.
Speaker 2: I mean, there are some people who protest who aren't
Speaker 2: really ready to listen, but I find that occurring less
Speaker 2: than people who might just have a different perspective. And
Speaker 2: let's face it, in this election, it's the most important
Speaker 2: election of our lifetime. I know we say that maybe easily,
Speaker 2: but I think everyone would agree with that right now.
Speaker 2: And where I start is I ask people to tell
Speaker 2: me a little bit about their story.
Speaker 3: And I like that.
Speaker 2: As an English teacher, I think stories are most important,
Speaker 2: and I try to share a bit of my stories
Speaker 2: in my remarks that I'm giving or when I'm answering
Speaker 2: a question, because I think in our stories we identify
Speaker 2: what we value. And what I still see across this
Speaker 2: country is that we value the same things we value democracy,
Speaker 2: we value reproductive freedom. We value children in schools and
Speaker 2: food and housing and how we get there. We may
Speaker 2: not see it the same way, but that's the dialogue
Speaker 2: we have to get back to. So I encourage people
Speaker 2: when they're door knocking or phone calling or campaigning to
Speaker 2: tell their stories, and let's work on finding some of
Speaker 2: those commonalities.
Speaker 3: You know. And I'm again.
Speaker 2: Going to be very real, I'm not going to find
Speaker 2: commonalities with what I feel is bullying by some of
Speaker 2: the things mister Trump says and does, and mister Vance
Speaker 2: says and does. I'm not talking about I'm not talking
Speaker 2: about that kind of behavior. I'm talking about real, legitimate
Speaker 2: conversation and storytelling, even with passionate passionate fire that we
Speaker 2: might have, but not bullying.
Speaker 3: Nope.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you quickly about meeting your husband. I
Speaker 1: know you were both school teachers. You were teaching English,
Speaker 1: he was a coach and a social studies teacher. This
Speaker 1: was an alliance Nebraska. Tell me about your impressions of
Speaker 1: him when you all first met, Well, when he was.
Speaker 2: First in alliance, he started the middle school and I
Speaker 2: was at the high school, so I didn't know at
Speaker 2: that very at the very at that very moment, But
Speaker 2: I knew who he was because we were both in
Speaker 2: the in the gym and there was an upper gym
Speaker 2: in a lower gym, and he was helping with a
Speaker 2: basketball program, and at that point I was coaching the
Speaker 2: cheerleaders and so I was in the upper gym and
Speaker 2: he was in the lower gym. So you know, I
Speaker 2: would see him on occasion, but I like had things
Speaker 2: to do because I was doing the speech and debate
Speaker 2: stuff too, and teaching English and the church choir and
Speaker 2: teaching piano lessons.
Speaker 3: Wow, and you were busy.
Speaker 2: I know, I know, but you know, when you're twenty two,
Speaker 2: twenty three, twenty four, like you can do all those things.
Speaker 2: And I was trying to pay my student loans off also,
Speaker 2: so I was taking advantage of all those things. So
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure. But my sister came out and stayed
Speaker 2: with me during January term and she saw him teach
Speaker 2: and she said to me, Gwenn, do you know Tim Walls?
Speaker 2: And I said, I think I know who he is.
Speaker 2: I think he's you know that guy, and blah blah blah,
Speaker 2: And she said, I saw him teach, and I'm going
Speaker 2: to tell you he's the best teacher I've ever seen.
Speaker 3: And I was like, wow, really, and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I would.
Speaker 2: I think you should meet him. She even made some
Speaker 2: like predictions. And then it was a little while later
Speaker 2: but that we met. But we actually then when he came.
Speaker 3: To high school.
Speaker 2: Because we were school a school that was short on
Speaker 2: space and short on money, they took the choir room,
Speaker 2: the old choir room, and they put a divider right
Speaker 2: down the middle. And this divider was not a fit divider.
Speaker 2: But he taught on one side and I taught on
Speaker 2: the other. And so that that was a way to
Speaker 2: get to know one another. And yeah, and and so
Speaker 2: we did.
Speaker 3: And you know, he asked to marry you. I understand,
Speaker 3: Gwen on your first date. Is that true? Well, he said,
Speaker 3: I'm going to marry you.
Speaker 2: Because he asked if he could kiss me good night
Speaker 2: and I said no, that I don't ever kiss on
Speaker 2: a first aid. English teachers have policies and you know,
Speaker 2: I don't have to think about these things. And he
Speaker 2: like looked at me and in a way like aren't
Speaker 2: you in your mid twenties and this is your policy?
Speaker 2: And I'm you know, safety first, So yeah, it was,
Speaker 2: it was my policy. So he looked at me, like really,
Speaker 2: and then he said, well, all right then, because I'm
Speaker 2: going to marry you.
Speaker 3: Now get out of my car. So fun, Yeah, isn't it?
Speaker 3: I mean? And I like looked at him, and then
Speaker 3: he didn't call me for three days. Oh wow, I
Speaker 3: hate that. But I finally did and you did get married.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we did and yeah, and you know, sharing
Speaker 2: that classroom with him, and what I saw from is
Speaker 2: coaching too, is I knew that we shared a vision
Speaker 2: of how we saw school and how we saw education,
Speaker 2: and we both chose that career, like we both come
Speaker 2: from families of educators, but we both chose that career
Speaker 2: because we love it right, and we believe in education,
Speaker 2: and we thought it was how we contributed most to
Speaker 2: the future. And I still say, the most fun days
Speaker 2: are days you're in schools, and the most hopeful days
Speaker 2: are days you're in schools because you get to be
Speaker 2: with those kids and here here those students and those
Speaker 2: voices and that vision.
Speaker 3: You know, and like, it's not easy. It is not easy.
Speaker 2: I was high school English, eleventh and twelfth grade, and
Speaker 2: you learn very quickly, like there is you are not cool.
Speaker 3: But what was your favorite book?
Speaker 2: To teach Gwen, Oh, so I can.
Speaker 1: I it's a play yeah, sure, our Town that's playing
Speaker 1: here in New York on Broadway right now.
Speaker 3: I know, you know, because it keeps coming back. I
Speaker 3: love that play too.
Speaker 2: It's it's amazing, right because when you think about it,
Speaker 2: and there's a there's a line near the end of
Speaker 2: the play that you know, they talk about like cups
Speaker 2: of coffee and and and how the usual things in
Speaker 2: life are really really special, right, and how you don't
Speaker 2: recognize how beautiful they are during your life. And I
Speaker 2: think that's such an important message and lesson, you know,
Speaker 2: because everyone thinks they want to have this spectacular, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of life, even with social media stuff and everything,
Speaker 2: and really it's like saying hi to your neighbor and
Speaker 2: planting new flowers in the garden and having a cup
Speaker 2: of coffee and getting to meet new people, And you know,
Speaker 2: aren't those the most wonderful things in all of our lives?
Speaker 2: And do we take time to recognize how very beautiful
Speaker 2: they are?
Speaker 3: And I think that's such a challenge for all of us.
Speaker 2: And that was a fun thing to talk about with students,
Speaker 2: and I actually would start my class with that because
Speaker 2: I wanted all the voices in the.
Speaker 3: Room, you know, or to have a chance to have
Speaker 3: the voices. And so I like that I can talk about.
Speaker 2: American literature for a long time because one of the
Speaker 2: things that I really emphasized was when I started teaching
Speaker 2: that were just a lot of old white men in
Speaker 2: the curriculum. And one of the things I was able
Speaker 2: to do throughout my entire career was to bring actually
Speaker 2: what American literature is, you know, beginning with Native voices
Speaker 2: and you know, Frederick Douglas and women and modern writers
Speaker 2: and all of that, and so that was really exciting,
Speaker 2: and you got to talk about challenges in our country
Speaker 2: and equity and why weren't these pieces in a textbook
Speaker 2: and what might we learn from them? So anyway, I know,
Speaker 2: I'm supposed to be winning the race here, Cannity.
Speaker 3: That's okay. I love talking about this too.
Speaker 1: And apparently in the latest production of Our Town on
Speaker 1: Broadway they pump in the Smell of Bacon, which sounds
Speaker 1: really fun and I'm really anxious to see it because
Speaker 1: I love that play too. It always makes me cry
Speaker 1: and I just it's such a moving play. Thornton Wilder
Speaker 1: and just love it. But anyway, let's get back to politics,
Speaker 1: so we talk about literature. You know, it's interesting how
Speaker 1: you say, throughout your career you've really made an effort
Speaker 1: to make the curriculum more inclusive and more representative. I
Speaker 1: think that's something that many Americans seem, for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: to be rejecting right now, this idea of more inclusion
Speaker 1: representation kind of under the guise of being woke. And
Speaker 1: I'm curious if you've encountered that and how you express
Speaker 1: your views that help people understand why these things have
Speaker 1: been important to you and maybe important to the country.
Speaker 2: You know, there's no reason to have fear, but sometimes
Speaker 2: we just we just do when we don't know the future.
Speaker 3: Different is not wrong. Different is just different.
Speaker 2: And so I would always say to my students at
Speaker 2: the beginning of the year, some people said, you have
Speaker 2: to earn my respect, right, And I never approached it
Speaker 2: like that. I always said, you have my respect, and
Speaker 2: I hope I have yours, and let's just work on
Speaker 2: keeping it that way.
Speaker 3: And I think.
Speaker 2: That when you have that base of respect, then the
Speaker 2: reason that you talk about including other voices saying American
Speaker 2: literature is because they're part of the story, right, They're
Speaker 2: part of our story in our history. And you know, facts,
Speaker 2: facts are facts, and we can talk about those in
Speaker 2: lots of different contexts, and we can talk about those
Speaker 2: and in our own stories and what that means.
Speaker 3: And when you speak to values like values of.
Speaker 2: Freedom, or values democracy right, or values like making your
Speaker 2: own choice about your own body, most people do not
Speaker 2: disagree on values and and so that's always the way
Speaker 2: that I've approached it. There have been, you know, people
Speaker 2: who disagree, and I respect their ability to disagree, but
Speaker 2: we have to think about being more inclusive or we're
Speaker 2: not going to close gaps.
Speaker 3: And we are not.
Speaker 2: You know, we are working toward a more perfect union here,
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of work to be done, and
Speaker 2: we need all voices in that. You can't have a
Speaker 2: more perfect union if if you only tell part of
Speaker 2: the story.
Speaker 1: If you want to get smarter every morning with a
Speaker 1: breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and
Speaker 1: wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter,
Speaker 1: Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. Gwen,
Speaker 1: I was curious about what you're hearing on the subject
Speaker 1: of reproductive freedom. You mentioned it earlier that has become
Speaker 1: a central issue in this race. And you have been
Speaker 1: very open along with your husband about your infertility journey,
Speaker 1: and I know it's something that you kept very private
Speaker 1: for a number of years. How hard has that been
Speaker 1: to talk about and why did you feel it was
Speaker 1: important to be open about your own experiences?
Speaker 3: Thanks? Thanks for that question.
Speaker 2: It is very hard to talk about it. It's we
Speaker 2: have been in the political light for you know, a
Speaker 2: long time now, and even as teachers, you're kind of
Speaker 2: public figures. But I'm a private person and so that
Speaker 2: felt really private to me and Tim and I didn't
Speaker 2: share that for you know, almost eighteen years and longer
Speaker 2: if you count, you know, if you count our journey
Speaker 2: to have hope, And we didn't talk about it because
Speaker 2: it was a painful and private process that we went
Speaker 2: through and kind of sharing it at that time made
Speaker 2: it more painful, or we thought it would, and so
Speaker 2: we didn't and that was just part of you know, what,
Speaker 2: who we were, and that felt like enough. But then
Speaker 2: when the Alabama Supreme Court decision came down, we said, no,
Speaker 2: we have a responsibility in our current leadership positions to
Speaker 2: talk about this because we cannot possibly have people denied
Speaker 2: the right to make their own choices about their own families,
Speaker 2: to have someone else like Donald Trump or Jadvance determine if,
Speaker 2: when or how they're going to have a family, and like, no,
Speaker 2: we have to we have to tell our story. And
Speaker 2: Tim felt exactly the same way, and so we did
Speaker 2: almost immediately tell it once that decision came down, and
Speaker 2: I decided that on the campaign trail it would be
Speaker 2: something that we would talk about because if you do
Speaker 2: not have freedom over your own body, whatever you might
Speaker 2: believe about abortion or anything, if you do not have
Speaker 2: the right to make decisions about your own body, what
Speaker 2: other freedoms do you really have? I feel it's so foundational,
Speaker 2: so fundamental, and I feel like it's part of an agenda.
Speaker 2: You know, Donald Trump has said some things like he's
Speaker 2: going to be the protector of women. No, thank you
Speaker 2: very much, Donald Trump. I'm not interested in that, and
Speaker 2: I don't think many women are. And that is a
Speaker 2: paternalistic sort of degrading idea to me, and that files
Speaker 2: right along with the attitude about reproductive freedom. And we
Speaker 2: are facing a national abortion band here, and we are
Speaker 2: facing real consequences here if we do not vote. I
Speaker 2: feel like it's for freedom and equality for women. And
Speaker 2: I wonder in my generation, like, have I done enough?
Speaker 2: So I wasn't going to make that mistake again. I'm
Speaker 2: doing everything I can right now, and I'm fighting for
Speaker 2: my daughter and for her friends and for people we
Speaker 2: don't even know because it's that important. But I'm not
Speaker 2: going to have the legacy in my generation be that
Speaker 2: we lost the rights for women to have autonomy over
Speaker 2: our own body.
Speaker 1: Kinds of things are you hearing from voters out on
Speaker 1: the trail when this subject comes up?
Speaker 3: I tell Katie, it is amazing.
Speaker 2: Every time I tell this story, which is a lot,
Speaker 2: sometimes three and four times a day, depending on how
Speaker 2: many events or the particular events, there are women and
Speaker 2: men who come to the ropeline or wait for me
Speaker 2: afterwards and tell me their stories or their journey or
Speaker 2: the journey of someone in their family or someone that
Speaker 2: they know. And these are painful and horrific stories. And
Speaker 2: I have to tell you, I'm angry that people have
Speaker 2: to tell their stories that clearly it's hard for them
Speaker 2: to tell, or even as I said, hard for me
Speaker 2: to tell, but we have to tell them, and they
Speaker 2: feel they have to tell them. I am so grateful
Speaker 2: for people sharing their stories and sharing that with me.
Speaker 2: But it's heartbreaking. It is heartbreaking that we are having
Speaker 2: this conversation or having to have this conversation right now.
Speaker 3: But I'm also grateful.
Speaker 2: For the generosity of people who are willing to share
Speaker 2: this and are clearly fighting for it and are clearly
Speaker 2: engaged in this election because of this issue in what
Speaker 2: it means and if there's such a stark contrast between
Speaker 2: Kamal and Tim Right who trust women, and Jade Vance
Speaker 2: and Donald Trump, who clearly do not. And if there's
Speaker 2: one single thing for women and I think for men
Speaker 2: who are smart to vote on, it's this issue.
Speaker 1: I'm curious how you feel about this gender gap that
Speaker 1: has submerged during the course of this election, with women
Speaker 1: overwhelmingly supporting the Harris Walls ticket, but men actually overwhelmingly
Speaker 1: or sertainly by a pretty significant margin, supporting Donald Trump
Speaker 1: and jd Vance. What do you make of that? Because
Speaker 1: I think most people would see your husband as a
Speaker 1: as a guy's guy. Oh not that he not that
Speaker 1: he doesn't support women, But how do you explain this
Speaker 1: big divide?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: It's it's it's worth thinking about and worth talking about.
Speaker 2: But I will tell you we are not giving up
Speaker 2: on anyone. And so I see this divide as lessening.
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not a Polster, or at least this moment,
Speaker 2: I'm not a polster. So so I know we see
Speaker 2: some things that that may say differently, and maybe when
Speaker 2: this race is over, maybe it will still look that way.
Speaker 3: But I still think there.
Speaker 2: Is time, and I think we cannot we cannot give
Speaker 2: up on making this issue relevant, or any issue really,
Speaker 2: but specifically reproductive freedom relevant to young men and all men,
Speaker 2: and telling our stories and sharing those values. We aren't
Speaker 2: giving up on that, and I think we just have
Speaker 2: to continue to do that. I also think that fear
Speaker 2: is a short term motivator, and there are ads and
Speaker 2: things out there about about the fear right, the fear
Speaker 2: factor that are appealing directly toward men.
Speaker 3: But the democracy is not like a pie, you.
Speaker 2: Know, where there are just so many slices and only
Speaker 2: a few people get a slice of the pie. That's
Speaker 2: not democracy. There is enough for everyone, and there is
Speaker 2: a place for everyone in this democracy. And so that
Speaker 2: motivator of fear, that discussion around what you know might
Speaker 2: what you might.
Speaker 3: Lose or or.
Speaker 2: Whatever, what ever is that appeals to that sense. We
Speaker 2: have to have better and more conversations. And I would
Speaker 2: encourage every woman who's listening to this to find three people,
Speaker 2: maybe even three men, and tell your story and talk
Speaker 2: about your values. And I bet you we are going
Speaker 2: to see those smart men come right along, right along
Speaker 2: with us. You can be a man's man and still
Speaker 2: understand what we are fighting for here and the freedom
Speaker 2: we're fighting for and a hopeful vision, a hopeful vision,
Speaker 2: and Katie, we're not going back.
Speaker 1: Glenn, I'm curious what role you think sexism might be
Speaker 1: playing in this campaign. There's been a lot written about
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris Downplane, sort of her gender or her race.
Speaker 1: Out on the campaign trail. You don't hear her talk
Speaker 1: about that much about being the first woman president, and
Speaker 1: yet it seems like they're are some people who don't
Speaker 1: even recognize their implicit bias against a female leader. How
Speaker 1: do you respond to that and have you seen much
Speaker 1: of that out campaigning?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think for women that there is a
Speaker 2: there is a reality, right that we have dealt with
Speaker 2: in board rooms, administrative rooms, teachers rooms, that that that
Speaker 2: has been embedded to a degree in our culture, and
Speaker 2: we are we are taking that on and we must
Speaker 2: we must take that on, and we must have powerful
Speaker 2: conversations about that. I I am hopeful that the vision
Speaker 2: that Tim and Kamala put forward, which you know, is
Speaker 2: about our way forward right, a new way forward, gives
Speaker 2: people an opportunity to make the decisions again about the
Speaker 2: issues and values that they care about. They are speaking
Speaker 2: to the middle class, they are speaking to reproductive freedom,
Speaker 2: they are speaking to kitchen table issues.
Speaker 3: There they are speaking about strength.
Speaker 2: And I think if you have any dissatisfaction with this country,
Speaker 2: Tim and Kamala are also your way forward, right because
Speaker 2: they are a new way forward. And I think women collaborate,
Speaker 2: they have strong conversations. We are strong and mighty, and
Speaker 2: we get it done, maybe five things at one time.
Speaker 3: We get done. And I think people need to recognize that.
Speaker 3: I won't I won't say that it's not.
Speaker 2: Part of the conversation, but it is not really what
Speaker 2: I hear, and if and when I do hear that,
Speaker 2: I approach that once again by our shared values and
Speaker 2: by what's at stake. And I think I think Coma
Speaker 2: is one tough prosecutor. I think she is smart, She
Speaker 2: is on it and and she can cook dinner, right,
Speaker 2: and you see her do it all and I, you know,
Speaker 2: in my own role, I won't shy away from any
Speaker 2: of it. I bring cookies my great grandmother's recipe. I
Speaker 2: bring them to field offices across the country. One weekend,
Speaker 2: we made like fifteen hundred of and what kind of cookies?
Speaker 2: Ginger snaps? Ginger snaps.
Speaker 3: Maybe you'll give us the recipe and we can post it, Okay,
Speaker 3: you know I will. I will try to do that.
Speaker 2: I know they posted it, and it's like a fundraising thing.
Speaker 2: But if you, if you ask for it, I know
Speaker 2: they'll give it to you. And I'll try. I'll try
Speaker 2: to do that.
Speaker 3: They're they're really good.
Speaker 2: And you know, my great grandmother made them for me
Speaker 2: as a little girl, and I made them my whole life.
Speaker 2: And I serve them at the Minnesota Governor's residence, warm
Speaker 2: on winter's nights before people leave. Okay, I do that,
Speaker 2: And I can teach our town. And I am as
Speaker 2: top his nails in negotiating for teacher contracts and administrative contracts.
Speaker 2: So you know what, we are not limited. We are
Speaker 2: not limited people, and we are beginning to have a
Speaker 2: really important conversation and Kamala can do that times two.
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, and smart people recognize that, and Tim
Speaker 2: has always recognized that. He said, you know, one of
Speaker 2: his signs is what I've done is I've surrounded myself
Speaker 2: with a lot of smart women. And that's, you know,
Speaker 2: that's a good strategy. But it doesn't mean that he's
Speaker 2: less of a man. It doesn't mean that he doesn't
Speaker 2: have his own approach in doing things too.
Speaker 3: But we do have the shared values, the shared values
Speaker 3: of freedom and democracy, and that's what we're fighting for here,
Speaker 3: men and women, So we can't be afraid to have
Speaker 3: those conversations.
Speaker 1: I don't think I know you have to leave soon,
Speaker 1: but it does have two more questions, Gwen.
Speaker 2: One is Katie, can I say something? Yes, please, can
Speaker 2: I say something to you because I've when I heard
Speaker 2: that I got to speak with you, I wanted to
Speaker 2: tell you this that I was in the classroom on
Speaker 2: nine eleven and I it was my prep period and
Speaker 2: I always watched your show during my prep period while
Speaker 2: I was doing things getting ready for the day, and
Speaker 2: so you were on the air right on nine to eleven, right,
Speaker 2: And I want to thank you for that because you
Speaker 2: don't even know this, but you and I together helped
Speaker 2: my students and all the students in our school through
Speaker 2: that day because you were on and I was in
Speaker 2: my classroom and we had the TV on all day.
Speaker 2: And I want to tell you, I've always wanted to
Speaker 2: tell you how much that means to me and how
Speaker 2: much we did that together, and just thank you. And
Speaker 2: those students still I see to this day, and they
Speaker 2: remember that experience and they remember you. And Tim and
Speaker 2: I met in the staircase because he taught on the
Speaker 2: first floor and I taught on the second floor, and
Speaker 2: after the planes hit in New York, and we met
Speaker 2: on that staircase and we talked about it, and I said,
Speaker 2: you have to turn Katie Kirk, you have to turn
Speaker 2: an NBC on and he did and our whole school did,
Speaker 2: and we had that on throughout the whole day and
Speaker 2: we used that as a way to work through that
Speaker 2: with students. And Tim had to leave that day because
Speaker 2: they were calling National Guard leaders together, and like you
Speaker 2: were the touchstone for us on what was happening, and
Speaker 2: I just have I've always wanted to thank.
Speaker 3: You for that.
Speaker 2: So I had to take a minute to do that
Speaker 2: so thank you, thank you for that.
Speaker 3: That means a lot to me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: And it was a terrible, terrible day, terrible day, and
Speaker 1: yet I feel like the country sort of experienced it
Speaker 1: in a united way and came together after that horrible
Speaker 1: event in a way that it hadn't and certainly hasn't
Speaker 1: for many many years. And I, personally, Gwen, have never
Speaker 1: seen the country so divided and so at odds. And
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about your kids because Gus
Speaker 1: was just so awesome at the DNC. He was so
Speaker 1: excited seeing his dad up on stage and it was
Speaker 1: so moving to me and of course your daughter Hope
Speaker 1: as well. But after the DNC there were some hateful
Speaker 1: comments made on the right about Gus, and I'm just curious,
Speaker 1: as a mom, how you protect your kids from this toxic,
Speaker 1: toxic environment we're in.
Speaker 3: Politically.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that was so overwhelming, I think for our
Speaker 2: whole family. It happened so so quickly, and that room
Speaker 2: was so amazing, and seeing Tim take the stage, like,
Speaker 2: I still get choked up about that, and Gus just
Speaker 2: expressed that, and you know, he just turned eighteen and
Speaker 2: I was on the phone with him just before this,
Speaker 2: he called me to give me an update on the
Speaker 2: cat this morning and to talk about his day. My
Speaker 2: sister was staying with us and with him, and so
Speaker 2: I was I was talking to him, and you know,
Speaker 2: we have we.
Speaker 3: Have talked, we've had to talk about.
Speaker 2: He was two weeks old, a little more two and
Speaker 2: a half weeks sold when Tim was elected to Congress.
Speaker 3: So what he has known is his dad in politics.
Speaker 2: He didn't know his dad in a school, right, so
Speaker 2: this has been his reality. And we have we've had
Speaker 2: We lived in a district that was more red than
Speaker 2: blue when Tim was a congressman, and so we've encountered
Speaker 2: these sort of conversations and this this sort of I mean,
Speaker 2: this is this is more than we've never accounted. But
Speaker 2: it's not it's not a new thing to have people
Speaker 2: be more hateful than they need to be. And what
Speaker 2: we've always said to our kids, you know, is they're
Speaker 2: going to say a lot of things that are very
Speaker 2: mean and that are not true. But we know who
Speaker 2: we are, and we have a great family around us,
Speaker 2: and we have great friends around us, and that just
Speaker 2: shows us how we are not going to act. And
Speaker 2: you know that that's not true about you, and you
Speaker 2: might have a response at times or want to have
Speaker 2: a response, but we're not going to do that on
Speaker 2: social media. We're not going to do that because we
Speaker 2: talked to people face to face and we build relationship
Speaker 2: together face to face, not across platforms of hate.
Speaker 3: These people usually it's not about you.
Speaker 2: It's about something in their own lives that they're unhappy
Speaker 2: with and what Dad and I and you and Hope
Speaker 2: and Gus are working towards. That's part of service right now,
Speaker 2: and we have to do everything we can to try
Speaker 2: to change that.
Speaker 3: But we are fortunate to serve.
Speaker 2: We get to live our values and tear our values,
Speaker 2: and you know, if we want to cry in the pillow,
Speaker 2: we can, and then we have to go on. Even
Speaker 2: if you want to say a few words and put
Speaker 2: a quarter in the squear jar, Okay, but then we're
Speaker 2: going to write, We're going to move on because we
Speaker 2: know who we are.
Speaker 3: And then, you know.
Speaker 2: There are things because brands are still developing when you're
Speaker 2: eighteen and twenty three. But I said, Gus, you know
Speaker 2: you have a lot more people who love you, right,
Speaker 2: and look at some of the positive comments that you've gotten,
Speaker 2: and look at the community who feels that you and
Speaker 2: Dad and I are speaking to them and for them,
Speaker 2: and how proud they feel of you and all of us.
Speaker 1: Talk about that community, Gwenn and what you've heard from
Speaker 1: that community.
Speaker 2: That has been amazing that I mean people again come
Speaker 2: and share their stories and share their compassion. I have
Speaker 2: people have t shirts all over like you know, I'm
Speaker 2: voting for Gus's dad, or I love Gus, or you know,
Speaker 2: I have hope or you know, all of these really
Speaker 2: amazing things, because they're trying to embrace our family too,
Speaker 2: and they're trying to encourage those kids. And those are
Speaker 2: such good, brave people. I can't thank them enough. And
Speaker 2: there are people who you know, with the neuro divergent
Speaker 2: and all the all those things, who feel like it's
Speaker 2: time to have that conversation and they hope we will.
Speaker 2: And I think it's begun a conversation and I'm anxious.
Speaker 3: To continue that.
Speaker 2: And then there are really you know, you have to,
Speaker 2: like my mom says, do the work in front of you.
Speaker 2: You have to use your own time and talents and
Speaker 2: expertise whatever they might be. But I do want to
Speaker 2: say this on Gus's birthday, which was October thirteenth.
Speaker 3: Chris Rock called.
Speaker 2: Gush to wish them a happy birthday and to talk about,
Speaker 2: you know, to talk about just kind of how special
Speaker 2: their superpowers are.
Speaker 3: Now, how amazing is that? That? That is no more special?
Speaker 2: Right? I mean, it is special, but it's no more
Speaker 2: special than people who are on the ropeline who are
Speaker 2: telling me those stories and asking us to have a
Speaker 2: national conversation.
Speaker 3: I take that very seriously.
Speaker 2: I'm proud of both my kiddos, and I am hopeful
Speaker 2: that we are teaching them the responsibility of service and
Speaker 2: what they might do for their country when the moment calls,
Speaker 2: even if it's something.
Speaker 3: That you little expect.
Speaker 2: So there are benefits definitely to all of it and
Speaker 2: to all the stories in to what we're learning, to
Speaker 2: conversations that are new that we get to have and
Speaker 2: learning that we get to have.
Speaker 1: Another thing that critics have seized on were a couple
Speaker 1: of occasions when your husband has misremembered things. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I think sort of question his character because of his
Speaker 1: recollections or his misstatements of what actually happened. Can you
Speaker 1: shed any light on those incidents when people listening or
Speaker 1: watching that might explain sort of these incidents that his
Speaker 1: opponents have really seized on.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is how this is how I see it, right.
Speaker 2: I think that when you are a teacher, you are
Speaker 2: used to putting things in terms for people to understand,
Speaker 2: and Tim is a fabulous communicator, right, And in that effort,
Speaker 2: like let's just take the example of when he was
Speaker 2: in Tieneman Square, he probably said during the summer of
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine, and then someone said, well, what part
Speaker 2: of the summer, and he would say, well, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think it was probably the first part of the summer.
Speaker 3: You know, And so then he'd be like, oh, was
Speaker 3: it the first part of the summer. Well, he's not
Speaker 3: looking at a calendar.
Speaker 2: From nineteen eighty nine, and in politics, you know, I
Speaker 2: don't know if you have to go back through that.
Speaker 2: But he was right there in the summer, and frankly,
Speaker 2: Tianeman Square looked a lot like it did on June fourth,
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine, six months later, seven months later, eight
Speaker 2: months later, right, there were tanks, there was it was
Speaker 2: a militant atmosphere. So I think in an effort to
Speaker 2: clarify sometimes he you know, would say a statement and
Speaker 2: then people would narrow that, try to narrow it down,
Speaker 2: and he would probably try to narrow it down in
Speaker 2: his own mind. Tim is an incredibly authentic person and
Speaker 2: an incredibly transparent person.
Speaker 3: And I think he tries.
Speaker 2: I think he tries to answer the question, and like
Speaker 2: in a debate, that can be your first mistake trying
Speaker 2: to answer the question right instead of just trying to
Speaker 2: get your talking points out there. But he's authentic about
Speaker 2: that and authentic about communication. And does he get details wrong? Yes,
Speaker 2: there are times, you know, there are times when he says,
Speaker 2: you know, like I bought a new golf club when
Speaker 2: and I'll say, okay, so like how much how much
Speaker 2: money was that?
Speaker 3: Or what to take out of the checking account, you know,
Speaker 3: and he rounds and like that rounding air.
Speaker 2: That might not be exactly what it is, Katie, but
Speaker 2: it's in the spirit of it, right, And that's just
Speaker 2: who he is.
Speaker 3: The important thing is he bought a new.
Speaker 2: Golf book, right, and and there's money coming out of
Speaker 2: the checking account because we're very much a middle class family,
Speaker 2: so we have to keep track of all kinds of
Speaker 2: all kinds of things like that. And that's how I
Speaker 2: see it. What you see is what you get with Tim.
Speaker 2: I'm incredibly proud of him. I also am. You know,
Speaker 2: like we work together, We are a partnership. We have
Speaker 2: been from day one, and I you know, I know
Speaker 2: his strengths and I know the things that we're still
Speaker 2: working on, just like he knows my st and he
Speaker 2: knows the things I'm still working on. You are getting
Speaker 2: a teacher, a football coach, an incredibly smart man, a
Speaker 2: retired military veteran. But what he cares about and what
Speaker 2: he's always cared about, are people. And he has always
Speaker 2: tried to serve and make the difference that he can
Speaker 2: for people. And that's what he and Kamala have in common.
Speaker 2: And they knew it the first moment that they spoke,
Speaker 2: the first moment that they met. And I knew it
Speaker 2: the first time. I was on the bus with Kamala
Speaker 2: and Doug and Tim and I and we all said,
Speaker 2: how do you run races? You run them like you're
Speaker 2: ten points down and they like set it in unison
Speaker 2: And that's the only text we all share with each other,
Speaker 2: ten points down, because that's how hard every one of
Speaker 2: us is working every single day in different directions.
Speaker 1: Gwen, I know that it must be hard because, of
Speaker 1: course you've been married to Tim for a long time,
Speaker 1: you have kids with him, and I think in a
Speaker 1: campaign sometimes people, you know, they make these assumptions about people,
Speaker 1: and I think you've probably witnessed that happening with your husband.
Speaker 1: He's been criticized by the right for things like supporting
Speaker 1: gender affirming care, signing a law that mandates free minstration
Speaker 1: products in public school restrooms. Some people have called him
Speaker 1: tampon Tim, and I think they've painted a portrait of
Speaker 1: an uber liberal guy. And you know, they talk about
Speaker 1: the school lunches and school breakfasts, which I don't know
Speaker 1: how you can actually criticize that, but I'm curious how
Speaker 1: you would describe kind of his overall philosophy and political
Speaker 1: philosophy when it comes to issues like that.
Speaker 2: I think Tim and I have always thought about removing
Speaker 2: barriers to learning success us and whatever that barrier is,
Speaker 2: whether it be free lunch, orminstruation products, or knowing who
Speaker 2: you are. Everyone means everyone, and some things look different
Speaker 2: for some people. People have different needs and they have
Speaker 2: different resources. But everyone means everyone and all of us,
Speaker 2: and so that is not that is not an unmessy journey,
Speaker 2: right but we have looked at it like what do.
Speaker 3: You need to move forward?
Speaker 2: What do you need to be happy and healthy and
Speaker 2: have success? And how might we most effectively and best
Speaker 2: help with that? And then mind your own damn business, right,
Speaker 2: then get out of the way, because and I think
Speaker 2: that those two pieces probably described him. He's compassionate, he's empathetic.
Speaker 2: He removes barriers. You know, if kids are hungry in school,
Speaker 2: what that does to brain and learning, You're not going
Speaker 2: to learn to read. So if you're talking about learning
Speaker 2: to read and closing gaps, then you better take away
Speaker 2: the barriers for that. If that's tampons, then that's tampon, right,
Speaker 2: take away the barriers, and let's get to the real
Speaker 2: work of this, not get lost in what are you know,
Speaker 2: what our components? And and as some people would say,
Speaker 2: you know, egling the playing field or whatever it might be.
Speaker 2: I think he does a great job of that. But
Speaker 2: I also think, you know, then he's like, whose business
Speaker 2: is that? Like, mind it yourself? Now I have to
Speaker 2: put a quarter in this square jar, but but mind it,
Speaker 2: mind it yourself, Like, let's let's just get on about
Speaker 2: the real important issues that we have to solve, not
Speaker 2: get caught up.
Speaker 3: In people's own personal uh business. Let's just provide what
Speaker 3: we need to provide. You know, we see atquity as getting.
Speaker 2: People what they need to get to a specific place
Speaker 2: where we can have that conversation.
Speaker 1: I've heard you've gotten advice from both the second Gentleman
Speaker 1: Doug m Hoff and first Lady Jill Biden. I'm curious
Speaker 1: what they've told you that you have found particularly useful.
Speaker 3: Oh, Gosh, okay.
Speaker 2: So you know, as a teacher and a learner, good
Speaker 2: teachers are good learners, and I strive to be a
Speaker 2: good teacher.
Speaker 3: So I hope I'm a good learner.
Speaker 2: I take advice and seek resources from everybody that I
Speaker 2: can in order to do the best job I can.
Speaker 2: I'm taking this very I mean ultra seriously, right like
Speaker 2: I I'm honored to be able to be in this position,
Speaker 2: and I want to do it as the best I can.
Speaker 2: So Doug m Hoff called me right away and continues
Speaker 2: to call me. And you know, he and Gosh share
Speaker 2: a birthday, so that was a kind of a fun
Speaker 2: celebration with every on. And he is such an amazing
Speaker 2: person and how he models support for his wife and
Speaker 2: empowers women and empowers me. Is really miraculous. So he is,
Speaker 2: you know, I have good sense of humor about things.
Speaker 2: Has also said ask for what you need, you know,
Speaker 2: ask for what you need. Be determined in what you're doing,
Speaker 2: and you know, let us know, but take time for
Speaker 2: yourself too. And so I mean all and lots of
Speaker 2: other things, but really good perspective, right, And since he's
Speaker 2: done this and recently and still doing it right and
Speaker 2: they are the top of the ticket, that's super helpful
Speaker 2: and empowering advice. And you know, he was great with
Speaker 2: our children right away and like said, here's my cell
Speaker 2: phone number, let me know if you need anything. I'm like, okay, kids,
Speaker 2: do not text that man. He is very busy, you know.
Speaker 2: Guss is like, I think I'm a text Doug and
Speaker 2: have some I'm like, wait, hang on, you know, and
Speaker 2: he's like, no, he said it good and like he
Speaker 2: means it. But I know, so he I. Relationships are important,
Speaker 2: and I and doctor Biden. When Tim was elected to Congress,
Speaker 2: Joe Biden and doctor Biden were in the Senate and
Speaker 2: so we knew them from from Congress. And like, Joe
Speaker 2: Biden and I were too functioning educators, right, at that time.
Speaker 2: So on in different places and different times, we are
Speaker 2: like the ones correcting papers. And so that was and
Speaker 2: if that was an affinity that we shared. And she
Speaker 2: came to Augsburg University where I teach one class during
Speaker 2: the last election cycle, and we did an event together
Speaker 2: in the courtyard at the university.
Speaker 3: And and you know, she's a trailblazer right in her
Speaker 3: own way.
Speaker 2: And she's a good teacher and a good mom.
Speaker 3: Right and just.
Speaker 2: She's just such a good perspective. And she is this
Speaker 2: determined and strong of a person as I've as I've
Speaker 2: ever met. And I get to campaign with her coming up,
Speaker 2: and I'm so looking forward to that. And so she
Speaker 2: balances all all of it, and you know, like in
Speaker 2: in high heels, she balances it. You know that Freda
Speaker 2: is thing like Ginger Rogers did it all in backwards.
Speaker 3: That's always talk about doctor Biden.
Speaker 2: And she also is always available to me, good days,
Speaker 2: bad days, whatever it is.
Speaker 3: She does not.
Speaker 2: When she's your friend and supporter, she really means it.
Speaker 2: And that is good to remember because when you're on
Speaker 2: this campaign journey to still keep and value all of
Speaker 2: those relationships that are so important to you and find
Speaker 2: a way to do that.
Speaker 3: She's given me good advice on that.
Speaker 1: Well, Gwyn Walls, I know you have a very busy
Speaker 1: day ahead. I can't tell you how much we appreciate
Speaker 1: you taking all this time to allow us to get
Speaker 1: to know you a little bit better and to listen
Speaker 1: to your story and hear your values, and we're just
Speaker 1: very grateful. So thank you.
Speaker 3: You're the best. Thank you, Thanks for listening. Everyone.
Speaker 1: If you have a question for me, a subject you
Speaker 1: want us to cover, or you want to share your
Speaker 1: thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world reach out.
Speaker 1: You can leave a short message at six oh nine
Speaker 1: five one two five five oh five, or you can
Speaker 1: send me a DM on Instagram. I would love to
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Speaker 1: our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller
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