1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 2: President Trump heading over to Scotland. A headline breaking on 7 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 2: the Bloomberg terminal last hour that he's going to meet 8 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 2: with the eus Ursula Vonderlion to continue trade talks. But 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 2: another big focus, and definitely the focus of yesterday, was 10 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 2: President Trump's recent comments about the FED Chair Jerome Powell, 11 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 2: and he was asked about his visit to the fed's 12 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 2: renovation site yesterday as he headed out on his trip. 13 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 2: We want to bring you part of what he said earlier. 14 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 3: We had a very good meeting forgetting about the building 15 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 3: that's out of control of Bolder, but I think we 16 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 3: had a very good meeting. 17 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 4: On interest right. And he said to me, and I 18 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 4: don't know if he's good to say this on Thursday 19 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 4: or every state, but he said to me very strongly, 20 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 4: the country is doing well. He said, congratulations, the country is. 21 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 5: Doing really well. 22 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 4: And I got back to me that I think he's 23 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 4: going to start. 24 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 3: Recommending LAWA ray hot out there today in the nation's capital. 25 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 3: It's ninety something agrees right now. It's supposed to feel 26 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 3: like one hundred and seven later. So maybe his timing 27 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 3: was right. As opposed to those going to Fenway Park 28 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 3: this weekend, that ought to be something, although I guess 29 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 3: they're making some good sessions to make that work. Tyler Kendall, 30 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 3: The President said one thing yesterday. By the way, we're 31 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 3: going to be talking about this with Lale Brainerd in 32 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 3: a moment, and I can't wait to hear her thoughts 33 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 3: on this. Having written an op ed in the Washington 34 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 3: Post about this very matter, Wendy Benjamin said, the President 35 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 3: yesterday said, I think he's going to start recommending lawer 36 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 3: rates because of that conversation. That is a continuation of 37 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 3: the pressure campaign. 38 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 6: It absolutely is a continuation of the pressure just when 39 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 6: we thought after that meeting that the pressure had eased 40 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 6: up a bit, right because he toured the construction side, 41 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 6: which is something former developer Donald Trump loves to do. 42 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 6: He put on a hard hat, he walked through the 43 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 6: construction side, and he seemed to deem it under control. 44 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 6: Slap Powell on the back, made her joke about interest rates, 45 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 6: Powell stunningly fact checked him publicly in real time, seemed 46 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 6: to have gotten away with it, so and markets reacted 47 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 6: positively to that whole scene, thinking, well, now Powell has 48 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 6: his job. 49 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 2: Now. 50 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 6: The morning's comments could mean that Trump still feels very 51 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 6: confident that now Powell sees things the way he does. 52 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 6: But come Thursday, if those interest rates don't come down, 53 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 6: I think I think he'll be back to being what 54 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 6: Donald Trump calls a numbskull and too late, and the 55 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 6: disappointment and all that, and this nice little bromance that 56 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 6: brewed up yesterday will be over again. 57 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 2: Well, let's look at this broader picture, because we have 58 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 2: a great story on the Bloomberg terminal this morning. And 59 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 2: I know that you edited Wendy about this idea of 60 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 2: how Trump's strategy when it comes to pressuring the Fed 61 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 2: is about flooding the zone. Can you talk to us 62 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 2: what led to us to this point, because this originally 63 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 2: started with the administration right pointing to economic data for example. 64 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 2: And now we've taken a turn, and there's this highlight 65 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 2: on the Fed's recent renovations. 66 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 6: Right, and Nancy Cook wrote this brilliant story about this, 67 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 6: and it is. It is one of Trump's absolute techniques 68 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 6: that he uses for a lot of different things. We 69 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 6: see it with him distracting people, trying to distract people 70 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 6: from the Jeffrey Epstein story. What he does is something 71 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 6: called Steve Bannon cooined flooding the zone. So Powell, you know, 72 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 6: isn't lowering interest rates. The Fed is renovating its building. 73 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 6: This is wrong. He's a bad person. He just attacks 74 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 6: from so many angles that it's impossible for the target 75 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 6: to respond to one thing because another thing pops up 76 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 6: over here, and something else pops up over there. And 77 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 6: that's what this renovation, this renovation scandal and I'm doing 78 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 6: air quotes was all about, because there was no scandal. 79 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 4: It was. 80 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 6: It's a building build in the nineteen thirties, it was 81 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 6: filled with asbestos and lead. It hadn't been renovated since 82 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 6: the nineteen thirties, and you know, it needed a little 83 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 6: touch up. And I do think Trump sort of got 84 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 6: that when he walked through yesterday. 85 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 3: He didn't find Versailles. 86 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 6: He didn't fight I guess when he got. 87 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 3: There, as russ Vote suggested. So again, is this simply 88 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 3: about pressuring Powell to cut rates or does Donald Trump 89 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 3: want him to resign? He says it's not a fireable offense. 90 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 3: But if you make life miserable enough for someone, And 91 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,239 Speaker 3: I know that Jay Powell has said he's going nowhere, 92 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 3: is that the aim here? 93 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 4: Right? 94 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 6: I think he really wants the interest rates down. I 95 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 6: don't think he cares what I mean. He remember he 96 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 6: appointed J. Powell in the first place, and so at 97 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 6: some point they saw eye do I on things enough 98 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 6: for him to become a FED chairman? And I think 99 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 6: if Powell were to do that, then everything would be fine. 100 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 6: If he doesn't, I also think Trump knows the blowbag, 101 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 6: not only politically but from the market. So firing a 102 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 6: FED chair would be so severe that He's just going 103 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 6: to keep needling Powell and needling him until probably until 104 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 6: his term is up in May twenty twenty six. Because 105 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 6: Powell is showing a great deal of confidence. He doesn't 106 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 6: need this job, right, and so he's showing a great 107 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 6: deal of confidence and saying, you know, this is what 108 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 6: I think. Fire me if you will, but this is 109 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 6: what I think is right for the economy, which the 110 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,119 Speaker 6: FED chair gets to do in our country that it works. 111 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 7: Yeah, all right, a lot to watch for here. 112 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 2: Wendy Benjaminson, Senior editor at Bloomberg, We thank you so much, 113 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 2: and to continue this conversation, we want to bring in 114 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 2: Lale Brainerd, former director of the National Economic Council under 115 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 2: the Biden administration, for our vice chair of the Federal Reserve, 116 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 2: now distinguished fellow at the Georgetown Center for Financial Markets 117 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 2: and Policies. Lale, thank you so much for joining Bloomberg. 118 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 2: I just want to pick up on this conversation. President 119 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 2: Trump says he's not going to fire Jerome Powell. So 120 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 2: is this just all about trying to see lower rates 121 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 2: next week when that Phonem's meets. 122 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 8: There's probably a few things that are going on. 123 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 6: One. 124 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 8: I think it is an effort to pressure the Federal 125 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 8: Reserve for lower rates. It's also a distraction. You know, 126 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 8: that was a picture for the Ages yesterday, the President 127 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 8: standing next to the chairman of the Federal Reserve wearing 128 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 8: hard hats. Quite a story, and it also serves to 129 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 8: find a place to have blame to the extent that 130 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 8: the economy is not as strong as the President has 131 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 8: said that it would be at this juncture. You heard 132 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 8: him say that the Federal Reserve should be lowering rates 133 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 8: and that's the only thing standing in the way. So 134 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 8: I think it does serve multiple purposes in terms of 135 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 8: the storyline. But we also know that Federal Reserve chairs 136 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 8: go down in history for actually following their mandate and 137 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 8: not caving to political pressure, and those that do cave 138 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 8: to political pressures tend not to be viewed very favorablely 139 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 8: in the history books. 140 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 3: Leil, it's great to have you with us. I want 141 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 3: to ask you about the op ed that you wrote 142 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 3: recently in the Washington Post, an opinion piece with the 143 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 3: headline the real reason Trump wants to fire the Fed 144 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 3: share You say it has everything to do with debt management. 145 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 3: The President wants to reduce the debt service on the 146 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 3: trillions his megabill will add to the national debt. So 147 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 3: now we're connecting the dots to the President's big, beautiful bill. 148 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 3: The fact is, and you say this in your piece, 149 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 3: they are saying it out loud. Lael Peter Navarro sat 150 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 3: right at this desk a couple of days ago and 151 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 3: talked about the need to lower interest rates in an 152 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 3: effort to save a trillion dollars when it comes to 153 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 3: our debt. Is this the new mission creep? We hear 154 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 3: a lot about mission creep in the central bank? Is 155 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 3: this a version of that in your eyes? 156 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 8: Well, certainly, this is the kind of diversion of the 157 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 8: Federal Reserve from its core inflation fighting mission to supporting 158 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 8: the administration's desire to finance this big new increase in 159 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 8: the national debt cheaply. That is traditionally the way that 160 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 8: central banks in other countries like Brazil or Turkey, Argentina 161 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 8: go awry and lose that credibility on inflation fighting. So 162 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 8: I have to say that I was surprised to hear 163 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 8: the President say it out loud when he says, every 164 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 8: percentage point reduction in interest rates translates into three hundred 165 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 8: billion dollars. What he's talking about is interest payments on 166 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 8: the national debt. And when he says, you know, if 167 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 8: the Fed will cut by three percentage points down to 168 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 8: one percentage point, that'll save us a trillion dollars in 169 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 8: debt service, that's what he's really referring to. And he 170 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 8: said it quite explicitly, and economists have a term for 171 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 8: it because it has happened so many times in history. 172 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 8: It's called fiscal dominance when debt management becomes more important 173 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 8: for the central bank than fighting inflation, and what happens 174 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 8: is you lose control of inflation and ultimately long term 175 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 8: interest rates actually go up. 176 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 2: Well, we did actually get a different sort of answer 177 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 2: when we posed this question to Jill Lavornia, a senior 178 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 2: counselor to the Treasury Secretary Scott Besson, about concerns when 179 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 2: it comes to the long end of the yield curve. 180 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 2: He joined us on Balance of Power last week. I 181 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 2: want to play you with some of his reaction and 182 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 2: then get your reaction on the other side. 183 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 9: I don't see how markets are going to be worried 184 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 9: about that. In fact, if you look at where yields are, 185 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 9: they're lower than where they started the year. And when 186 00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 9: a lot of the people who are worried about the 187 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 9: market selling off because of credibility and things of that sort, 188 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 9: these are many the same folks who back in April 189 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 9: said the US was uninvestable, And yet we had Treasury 190 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 9: data that came out today that should essentially record inflow 191 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,719 Speaker 9: into the market with treasury demand virtually at an all 192 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 9: time high. So these arguments I don't think hold up 193 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 9: to really scrutiny into the facts. 194 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 2: We should say that a response was last week on 195 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 2: July seventeenth. But Laoe, I'm wondering what you make of 196 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 2: that defense when it comes to this issue. 197 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 8: Well, what we did see when the markets were really 198 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 8: reacting to news that this administration would really pressure the 199 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 8: Federal Reserve and might fire the chair of the Federal 200 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 8: Reserve back in April, that was the first time I 201 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 8: think market participants really were digesting that news, and there 202 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 8: was a lot of repositioning, as you'll recall, And what 203 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 8: we saw is that the long end of the curve 204 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 8: did actually go up quite a bit and the dollar weekend. 205 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 8: That is the kind of response that you tend to 206 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 8: see in circumstances where central banks lose credibility on the 207 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 8: fight against inflation, because investors demand more compensation to hold 208 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 8: longer term securities, sovereign securities, treasury securities if they think 209 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 8: that the currency is going to be weaker and inflation 210 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 8: is going to go up. So that is just the 211 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 8: traditional kind of market reaction we have seen it. We 212 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 8: certainly saw it back in April. Now I believe markets 213 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 8: I have seen the president back down say that he's 214 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 8: not going to fire the Federal Reserve chair yesterday. He 215 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 8: was even somewhat complimentary. And I think that's why you're 216 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 8: not seeing those kinds of reactions right now in markets. 217 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 8: But I do think the reaction we saw in April 218 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 8: was a cautionary tale. 219 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 3: It did seem the President came fixing for a bit 220 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 3: of a fight yesterday, Leale, I'm sure you were watching 221 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 3: as the two war hard hats the President pulled a 222 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 3: piece of paper out of his suit jacket to prove 223 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 3: to the FED chair that not only was the renovation 224 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 3: at the Echos building running over in terms of money, 225 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 3: but more than he thought, and he added a whole 226 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 3: new building to the list. Let's bring everybody back to 227 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 3: the construction site. Watch and listen. 228 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 4: It looks like it's about three point one billion, one 229 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 4: up a little bit or a lot. So the two 230 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 4: point seven is now three point one. Yeah, it just 231 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 4: came out. 232 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 9: Yeah, I haven't heard that from anybody that FED. 233 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 5: You're including the Martin renovation. 234 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 9: You just added into third buildings. 235 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 2: What that is? 236 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 5: That's a third building. 237 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 4: It's a building that's being built now. 238 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 8: It's been he was built five years ago. 239 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 4: Well, i'd love him to lower interest rates. Other than that, 240 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 4: what can. 241 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 3: I tell you complete with a knock on the back there, leol, 242 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 3: I'm wondering, as you watched this and had a chance 243 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 3: to digest everything that happened yesterday, does this go down 244 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 3: as a good day for fed independence. 245 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 8: I think what was interesting is that the Federal Reserve 246 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 8: had a chance to explain what was going on with 247 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 8: their renovations. These are very old buildings. They have two 248 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 8: buildings that really haven't been renovated I think since the 249 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 8: nineteen thirties and one that just was renovated for the 250 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 8: first time since the nineteen seventies. And I thought what 251 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 8: was interesting is that the President really came out of 252 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 8: those discussions, you know, really showing his long experience as 253 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 8: a real estate developer. You know, he talked about how 254 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 8: hard it is to build on a former swamp and 255 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 8: the kind of very expensive renovations that are necessary to 256 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 8: you know, really be secure in pushing down when there 257 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 8: are concerns about the water table. So in a way, 258 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 8: it was interest to see the President getting into the 259 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 8: complexities of the renovation in that sense. Yes, I think 260 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 8: it was a good day just for transparency around the 261 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 8: Federal Reserve. Which is so important because the Federal Reserve 262 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 8: has to be accountable to the public. 263 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 2: Well, I do want to go back to this idea 264 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 2: of so called mission creep that Joe had mentioned earlier. 265 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 2: We've heard this critique from Treasury Secretary Scott Besson, from 266 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 2: Kevin Warrish, who we know is potentially in the running 267 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 2: to be the next FED chair. Do you think that 268 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 2: it would be healthy for the FED to conduct a 269 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 2: review of its non monetary policy activities? Is that something 270 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 2: that you think would actually be a good thing for 271 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 2: the FED to look into, whether or not that's an 272 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 2: external review for example. 273 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 8: So I always think that the Federal Reserve benefits from 274 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 8: being accountable and transparent to the public and particularly to Congress. 275 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 8: And it's really Congress who has oversight of the Federal 276 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 8: Reserve who wrote the Federal Reserve Act that governs the 277 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 8: monetary policy and the Dodd Frank Act that governs their 278 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 8: responsibilities in financial stability policy. So I do think those 279 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 8: kinds of reviews are very beneficial, and there are many 280 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 8: mechanisms that the Federal Reserve could use to undertake such 281 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 8: a review. The thing that would concern me, I have 282 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 8: heard the Secretary of the Treasury, saying that the administration 283 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 8: would undertake a review and that does raise some concerns. 284 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 3: Well, I'm sorry, we're out of time. Sorry, I'd love 285 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 3: to have you come back to finish this conversation. It's 286 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 3: wonderful to have you back on Balance of Power. Former 287 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 3: Director National Economic Council, former Vice Chair of the Federal Reserve, 288 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 3: Laiel Brainerd wh us live from Washington only here on 289 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 3: Bloomberg TV and Radio. 290 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcasts. Catch 291 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pms den on 292 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: Apple Goguela Android otto with the Blueberg Business App. You 293 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship 294 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: New York station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 295 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 2: Right now, we're waiting for President Trump to touch down 296 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 2: in Scotland. He's heading overseas, and lawmakers in Washington are 297 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 2: actually heading home for their August recess where Joe. They're 298 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 2: going to have to answer to their constituents when it 299 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 2: comes to perhaps the big, the big achievement from the 300 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 2: last few weeks, the big beautiful Bill, and a lot 301 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 2: of other things that have happened recently in Congress, and 302 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 2: one of the things we're watching for the new polling 303 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 2: out showing that despite perhaps unpopularity with that bill, President 304 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 2: Trump's popularity has actually maintained. 305 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 7: Course. 306 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's not just the bill, it's the 307 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 3: Jeffrey Epstein scandal, it's the stuff we've been talking about 308 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 3: regarding trade, the uncertainty over tariffs. And look at this 309 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 3: unchanged really since April. Slightly underwater when you consider forty 310 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 3: six percent, but not bad with all of the headlines 311 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 3: that we've been looking at. Disapprove at fifty two percent, Tyler, 312 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 3: and you could potentially have a much different situation for 313 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 3: Republican lawmakers. To your point when they get home for 314 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 3: August reesis in getting an earful at town hall meetings 315 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 3: they're about to begin. 316 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 2: And it was such a good point about the tariffs too, 317 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 2: because we have to keep in mind that President Trump 318 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 2: really ran on his handling of the economy poll after 319 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,239 Speaker 2: a poll leading up to the election, kept telling us 320 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 2: that that was really where he was significantly ahead, and 321 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 2: that ultimately helped him clinch it. So amidst so much uncertainty. 322 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 2: As we're still waiting ahead of that August first deadline 323 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 2: for some more tariff deals. These numbers are pretty remarkable. 324 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 3: Well true, there is actually something really interesting that pops 325 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 3: out of this poll. It's really important to go beyond 326 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 3: the headline numbers. Sometimes the fact of the matter is 327 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 3: forty seven percent in the survey rate the economy as 328 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 3: excellent or good. That is a significant increase in eleven 329 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 3: point jump from April and by far the highlight in 330 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 3: this poll for Donald Trump. We're going to talk about 331 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 3: this and what lawmakers are going to experience in the 332 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 3: week's ahead here now that recess has begun with our 333 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 3: political panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and Gene Shanzeno 334 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 3: are with us. Rick is, of course, our Republican strategist 335 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 3: and partner at Stone Court Capital. Genie is senior Democracy 336 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 3: Fellow at the Center for the Study of the Presidency 337 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 3: and Congress. Rick, what's your thought here on how you 338 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 3: rationalize these approval ratings. We talked about some different numbers 339 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 3: from IPSOS yesterday against some of the vitriol that lawmakers 340 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 3: are expecting to hear when they get home. 341 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, obviously, Joe, the point you make about the big 342 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 5: jump in the approval of the economy is the standout 343 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 5: number here, right, That's what's driving the sustainability of the 344 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 5: Donald Trump approval rating. And it's different than any other 345 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 5: poll I've seen, including the Michigan Consumer Sentiment Index for 346 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 5: the month, which I of course have to bring up, 347 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 5: which actually is noticeably more depressing in the consumer attitudes 348 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 5: than this pole would indicate. That being said, also really 349 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 5: interesting is it's not arguable that the Reconciliation Bill is 350 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 5: wildly unpopular. Most polls, including this one, give it an 351 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 5: approval at a negative sixty percent. Immigration, even in this poll, 352 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:22,400 Speaker 5: has gone down in popularity for Donald Trump, and tariffs 353 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 5: are wildly unpopular. So even though the three signature issues 354 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 5: that have defined his presidency in the first six months 355 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 5: are underwater with the electorate, you know, he has sustained 356 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,120 Speaker 5: relative stability in his job approval rating. 357 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 2: Well to that point. Let's talk about the power of 358 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 2: the base, Jaimie. This poll finds that eighty eight percent 359 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 2: of GOP voters approve of President Trump's performance, with sixty 360 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 2: six percent strongly approving. With numbers like these, what kind 361 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 2: of signal does that give to publicans ahead of the midterms? 362 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 2: Do they have to expand the base here when you 363 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 2: have such a high number eighty eight percent overall approving 364 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 2: of his performance they do. 365 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 10: It's a very strong number, and I've seen it in 366 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 10: other polls on the base as high as ninety plus percent. 367 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 10: So he is doing very well in his base despite 368 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 10: their frustration with or concerns about the Epstein issue and 369 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 10: some of the issues that Rick just talked about, including 370 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 10: his signature issue of immigration, where his poll numbers with 371 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 10: his base have gone down. You know, I do think 372 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 10: what this means is that they're going to have to 373 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 10: focus on the midterm and shore up that base and 374 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 10: make sure they can get them out to vote. And 375 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 10: one thing we know is it's a lot easier to 376 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 10: get people out to vote when they're angry rather than 377 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 10: when they're satisfied. I will give Donald Trump credit for this. 378 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 10: He has done already six months in a lot more 379 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 10: work towards the midterm than I think most presidents do, 380 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 10: and much more than he focused on it in the 381 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 10: first term. I mean, he is really focused like a 382 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 10: laser beam on this midterm election. So Democrats who think 383 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 10: they can sort of run on a history where the 384 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 10: other party will do worse, they have their work cut 385 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 10: out for them, But they have some things going for them, 386 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 10: including this dislike of everything he's done on the big 387 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,360 Speaker 10: beautiful bill, the tariffs and immigration, three signature issues. 388 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 3: I suspect we'll hear the name Jeffrey Epstein at most 389 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 3: all of these town hall meetings. Seventy six percent of 390 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 3: voters in this new poll in the Wall Street Journal, 391 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 3: by the way, that includes sixty four percent of Republicans, 392 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 3: say they believe the Justice Department is hiding important information 393 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 3: when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein. Rick, They're going to 394 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 3: be Democratic trackers at all of these town halls, Right, 395 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 3: if you're a Republican lawmaker, how do you manage this? 396 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think you're going to see a slew of 397 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 5: viral videos coming out of town halls over the course 398 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 5: the next couple week weeks for these House members doing so, 399 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 5: indicating a lot of anger and frustration over their inability 400 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 5: to make public the documents they promise they would do 401 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 5: related to the Jeffrey Epstein case. And everyone already is 402 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 5: on defense in Washington, right, this thing is turned into 403 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 5: a mess, But Democrats are taking advantage of it as 404 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 5: well they should, and there's trackers are going to be 405 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 5: in all these swings districts, and there's, as Ricky Ricardo 406 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 5: used to say, there's lots of splain and the do 407 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 5: you know to these constituents who are wondering, Hey, you 408 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 5: promised to get this done and you haven't done it yet. 409 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 5: So Republics are gonna have to be pretty agile on 410 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 5: how they manage the situation at home. 411 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 2: Well, is that the strategy then for Democrats on the 412 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 2: other side, Genie, Because yes, we have some of these 413 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 2: pretty good talking points when it comes to Epstein and 414 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 2: how unpopular we know the big beautiful bill is. But 415 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 2: we already are hearing from Republicans starting to message around 416 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 2: the idea of a government and shut down in the 417 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 2: fall when they get back in talk about the potency 418 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 2: here of all these different threads that Democrats have the 419 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 2: ability to pull on, but they're also up against that 420 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 2: pretty hard messaging from the GOP. 421 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 10: They absolutely are, Tyler. I mean, the issue of the shutdown, 422 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 10: We're going to really see how agile the Democrats can be. 423 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,239 Speaker 10: I think there is a message there for them to 424 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 10: say that the administration Republicans are not willing to cross 425 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 10: the island deal with them in a fair bipartisan manner, 426 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 10: but it's not an easy message to make. They are 427 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 10: starting to get out there more on the Ebstein issue. 428 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 10: I saw recently when I was venturing through TikTok some 429 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 10: video of Ron DeSantis bending off some of the people 430 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 10: talking about the Ebstein case. We're going to see a 431 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,479 Speaker 10: lot more of that. To Rick's point, also, we are 432 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 10: seeing billboards around the country already talking about the Big 433 00:23:55,600 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 10: Beautiful Bill and labeling the shutdown, particularly in rural commun unities, 434 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 10: of these hospitals and medical centers, as Trump's doing the 435 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 10: Republicans doing so. Democrats will try to run against the 436 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 10: big Beautiful Bill on repeal, on holding Republicans rather to 437 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 10: the fire on Epstein, and they're going to have to 438 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 10: watch their back on the shut down message. So it's 439 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,719 Speaker 10: going to be a fun mid term to say the least, Tyler, 440 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 10: We're going to have a lot of fun. 441 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 3: And it starts now, Jeanie. And you know, you talk 442 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 3: about Jeffrey Epstein, you have to mention a half dozen 443 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 3: other stories that the White House is thrown up in 444 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 3: the air to get us talking about other stuff. Look 445 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 3: no further than this headline with the Senate Judiciary Republicans 446 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 3: John Cornyn and Lindsey Graham now calling on the Attorney 447 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 3: General to appoint a special council to investigate President Barack Obama, 448 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 3: his staff, members of his administration, the president saying in 449 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 3: the driveway today that the Supreme Court ruling on presidential 450 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 3: immunity probably means that Obama's going to be fine. Everybody 451 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 3: else not so much. Is the kind of overreach Democrats 452 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 3: are hoping for? 453 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 10: Absolutely, you know, this puts them, This puts the Republicans 454 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,360 Speaker 10: in a difficult situation. They don't much like special councils 455 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 10: as we can remember, and when Laura Lumer was calling 456 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 10: for one in the Epstein case, they shied away from that. So, yeah, 457 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 10: they're going to have a difficult time then calling for 458 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 10: just certain special councils and not others and getting over 459 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 10: their dislike of special counsels to begin with. So and 460 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 10: by the way, Donald Trump is right, he is protected 461 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 10: as well as Barack Obama when it comes to immunity. 462 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,679 Speaker 2: Well, Rick, just in our final couple of minutes here, 463 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 2: I love your perspective on this too. Is this going 464 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 2: to be too far of a push when it comes 465 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 2: for Republicans? Could this backfire. 466 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, I really don't get it. We're kind of all 467 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,919 Speaker 5: falling into this, you know, sort of conspiracy theory trap. 468 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 5: And that stuff's great, you know, sitting around the fire 469 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 5: and the winner when you got nothing else to do 470 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 5: but rick whiskey and to talk about, you know, conspiracy theories. 471 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,199 Speaker 5: But like you know, arguably the polling we were just 472 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,959 Speaker 5: talking about indicates that Donald Trump's got a little bit 473 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 5: of win at his back, assuming you can get these 474 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 5: tariffs done. Immigration is now down to zero on the border, 475 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 5: and the economy seems to be starting to percolate along. 476 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 5: I mean, certainly a record day on the markets today. 477 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,959 Speaker 5: Why in the world would you distract anybody from that 478 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 5: message set. I mean, like it's like the administration is 479 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 5: going out of their way to distract people from what's 480 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 5: really important to them. These conspiracy theories are only important 481 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 5: to the core base of the MAGA movement that are 482 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 5: going to do nothing but vote for Donald Trump no 483 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 5: matter how many times he runs for president. And so, 484 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 5: like you know, there is indications that independents are starting 485 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 5: to get a little fed up with this stuff, and 486 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 5: they've got to focus on those guys if they want 487 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 5: to have a Republican Congress in twenty twenty seven. 488 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 3: Wow, we've just got a minute left here, genieus, you 489 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 3: consider the options ahead here for President Trump, who's going 490 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 3: to be meeting with the Europeans on Sunday. To Rick's point, 491 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 3: if he can land a deal with the EU, does 492 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 3: that approval rating get back above water over fifty in 493 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 3: his first year in office. 494 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 10: I don't know if the EU will be enough, but 495 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 10: it certainly a step in the right direction. I think 496 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 10: China's going to be critically important, and Joe I can't 497 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 10: get over Rick's talking about winter fires and whiskey. So 498 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 10: I'm having a hard time to bring your question as 499 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 10: I think about these days and Rick around the fire. 500 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 10: But yeah, it would help, but I don't think it'll 501 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 10: change completely. 502 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 8: All right. 503 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 2: Our political panel today, Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano, both 504 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Politics contributors. 505 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 506 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, Cocklay, 507 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on 508 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live 509 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: on YouTube. 510 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 3: Charlie, I don't know, I was thinking we were going 511 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 3: to meet for the Dodgers game this weekend. That's gonna 512 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 3: be hot. It's one hundred and something degrees in Boston 513 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 3: today at least, you know, it feels like one hundred 514 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 3: something degrees. You know they call it the best bar 515 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 3: in Boston. Charlie, Fenway Park, I don't know how you 516 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 3: do it without without the taps on. 517 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: Without a doubt. 518 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 3: We'll see you there, big green monster. 519 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 10: You're buying, okay, if we can get up. 520 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 3: He's live from New York. Exactly well done. See I 521 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 3: know Charlie knows Boston. If you're with us on ninety 522 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 3: two nine, we see you and feel you, and maybe 523 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 3: we'll smell you later after a weekend, I guess. Without concessions, 524 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 3: workers at Fenway Park, the Era Mark folks have gone 525 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 3: on strike. As everybody heads home here, you know, they say, DC, 526 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 3: we just saw this yesterday. We've got the worst traffic 527 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 3: in the country, now topping Los Angeles. How's that for 528 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 3: a superlative, The worst traffic in the nation, de throning 529 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 3: LA for its famous congestion. This is according to a 530 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 3: Consumer of Fairs ranking. The average daily commute is the 531 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 3: longest in the United States. At over thirty three minutes. 532 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 3: And by the way, most people I know around here 533 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 3: are doing well over an hour. And you can thank 534 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 3: everybody coming back to the office, private sector organizations following 535 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 3: the FEDS to get everybody back to work. But this 536 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 3: weekend and for the next month, not so much as 537 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 3: House lawmakers head home with a whole schedule full of 538 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 3: town halls waiting for them, fundraisers and so forth, and 539 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 3: they're going to be talking about the big beautiful bill, unless, 540 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 3: of course, George Santos, you're going to prison today. I 541 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 3: don't know if you've heard about this, but it's real. 542 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 3: The curtain falls, the spotlight dims, and the rhinestones are packed. 543 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 3: Yeah there it is. Good job Cecie George Santos on 544 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 3: xay and goodnight Irene. He reports to prison today to 545 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 3: begin a seven year sentence. Did a whole bunch of 546 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 3: interviews on the way out. I'm guessing it won't be 547 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 3: too long before the jailhouse interview takes place. Lisa Camuso 548 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 3: Miller has probably known a couple of lawmakers who took 549 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 3: that path, but that's not why she's here tonight. The 550 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 3: former RNC communications director Republican strategist and host of the 551 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 3: Friday Reporter podcast is with us right now to sort 552 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 3: of get a sense of what is waiting for lawmakers 553 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 3: in the month of August. Lisa, it's great to see you. 554 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 3: I hope you're ready for the rest of this summer, 555 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 3: because this is when it gets real in Washington. Right 556 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 3: lawmakers are going to start holding town halls, and they 557 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 3: have got a pretty tough argument to make, according to 558 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 3: the polling we saw this morning in the Wall Street Journal. 559 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 3: Forget Donald Trump's approval rating right now, look at the 560 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 3: polling on the approval for the Big Beautiful Bill. Forty 561 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 3: two percent think it's a good thing. Fifty two percent, 562 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 3: a majority of Americans disapprove. This is the Wall Street 563 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 3: Journal once again. You can see it on screen if 564 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 3: you're with us on YouTube. Lisa, how do you sell 565 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 3: that message in a town hall in the weeks ahead? 566 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 7: I think, Joe, I think each and every one of 567 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 7: these members that's going home is probably Republican or Democrat. 568 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 7: It's a bipartisan difficult time to talk about these issues 569 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 7: because the Big Beautiful Bill, as they're calling it, was 570 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 7: supposed to really answer some of those concerns that voters 571 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 7: had when they went to the polls last November. And 572 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 7: now it's not just a game of getting the work done, 573 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 7: it's a messaging game. It's really it's become a back 574 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 7: and forth. There's been some question about what will happen 575 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 7: to rural hospitals, There's been some question about what will 576 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 7: happen to access to care, access to resources. And so 577 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 7: I think that this is going to be a really 578 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 7: big challenge, not only for Republicans who supported and enacted 579 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 7: this legislation, but for Democrats who were there in Washington 580 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 7: who couldn't stop it from happening. And so regardless of 581 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 7: who's in charge, it's a very thin margin. It's a 582 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 7: very thin amount of power that each party has in 583 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,080 Speaker 7: Washington today, and the town halls are going to be 584 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 7: spicier than ever before, and I think that that really 585 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 7: makes it very difficult, and it's going to make it 586 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 7: that much more discouraging for them to come back in 587 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 7: August to get appropriations done and all the other work 588 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 7: that has to happen before the end of the year. 589 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 3: So bring me inside this whole process. Here, you're a lawmaker, 590 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 3: you're head home, you're on the phone with your chief 591 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 3: roomever Hey, we've got a schedule. You're talking to the 592 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 3: Home office. You're going to do two town halls. Do 593 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 3: you have any control over who attends these? Because Republicans 594 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 3: always tell us, well, it's Democratic activists showing up. They 595 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 3: hated us to begin with, and they didn't like this bill. 596 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 3: But who are the actual voters showing up at these 597 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 3: events and how authentic is their message? 598 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 7: Well, you know, Joe, it depends on the district. Every 599 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,719 Speaker 7: district handles it differently. But the truth of it is 600 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 7: that once you're elected, you are the elected for the 601 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 7: entire district, regardless of what party affiliation you have. I mean, 602 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 7: party affiliation is about getting elected, but once you're in place, 603 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 7: you are supposed to govern for all in your district. 604 00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 7: And I suspect that the ones that show up at 605 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 7: these towns are the ones that are the most irritated 606 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 7: and concerned about what the direction is that's happening not 607 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 7: only in the district but in Washington, d C. And 608 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 7: so Yes, of course there's going to be back and 609 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 7: forth about whether or not it's filled with Democrat operatives 610 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 7: and Democrat mischief. But the truth of it is is 611 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 7: that regardless of your party people are not pleased with 612 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 7: the way things are going in Washington, d C. They 613 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 7: want to see action. They want people to stop talking 614 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 7: about things that don't seem to affect their lives all 615 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 7: that much. And I'm referring to that list of bad 616 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 7: actors as we talk about that Epstein disgusting and deplorable 617 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 7: activities on that side of the message meter. There's so 618 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 7: much to talk about, and it makes it that much 619 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 7: harder for the members who then have to stand before 620 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 7: their constituents Republicans, Democrats are otherwise and talk about what 621 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 7: it is they're doing in Washington without getting sort of 622 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 7: mired down in the political back and forth that happens 623 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 7: inevitably every time we have a town hall. 624 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 3: Well, you went there, so let's talk about Jeffrey Epstein. 625 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 3: I'm guessing that this is going to come up at 626 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 3: all of these town hall meetings as well. And while 627 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 3: we're talking about polling, we had new numbers from IPSOS 628 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 3: yesterday that Cliff Young brought us here. Take a look 629 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 3: at this approval of the handling of the Epstein files, 630 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 3: the way the administration is handling them. GOP support is 631 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 3: only at thirty five percent, Democratic support four everyone else 632 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 3: is at seventeen. The President couldn't get out of the 633 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 3: White House this morning without being faced with at least 634 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 3: a half dozen questions about Epstein. He didn't really answer 635 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 3: any of them. All he did was talk about how 636 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 3: Todd blanche was a great lawyer, and how what you 637 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 3: really ought to be looking at is Bill Clinton and 638 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 3: the Democrats who were on this supposed list. Lisa, what 639 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 3: should lawmakers be saying about this? 640 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 7: I think lawmakers, regardless of their party to say that 641 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,760 Speaker 7: this is a disgusting and deplorable situation. What had happened 642 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,760 Speaker 7: under Jeffrey Epstein and his reign of terror and everything 643 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 7: else and anyone else that was involved in it, but 644 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 7: it deserves a full throated investigation. It should not be 645 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 7: treated as politics because they were I human beings involved 646 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 7: and hurt in what happened here, and the President and 647 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,399 Speaker 7: everyone else that has anything to say about it ought 648 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 7: to act swiftly and act responsibly to get to the 649 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 7: bottom of the issues that are at hand here, make 650 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,760 Speaker 7: sure that those that are guilty are called to action, 651 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 7: and that we can get back to the issues that 652 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 7: the American people care about. Because Joe, I think some 653 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,280 Speaker 7: people will ask questions about Jeffrey Epstein in the town halls. 654 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 7: But more importantly, the American people want their real issues, 655 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 7: their home inside the House, budget issues address so that 656 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 7: they can get back to feeling like the American government 657 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 7: is doing what it's supposed to do to serve them well. 658 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 7: And that's the big distraction. That's the one thing that 659 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 7: I think is the greatest disadvantage to what's happening today, 660 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 7: that we're distracted by a horrible thing that happened. I 661 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 7: think everyone agrees that Jeffrey Epstein and the reign of 662 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 7: hideous things that happen with him and all the people 663 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 7: involved ought to be addressed. But we can walk in 664 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 7: shoes shot down the floor. 665 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 3: I don't know what you thought about this. I don't 666 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 3: know if other speakers would have acted the same way, 667 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,800 Speaker 3: but they're great worries that this is actually going to 668 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,760 Speaker 3: keep us from getting a budget together. With a limited 669 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 3: time that they'll have when they get back between you know, 670 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 3: Labor Day and the end of September, we're going to 671 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 3: be dealing with this and as lawmakers get home, it's 672 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 3: not just voters, so we'll be bringing it up. Lisa 673 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 3: the DNC, as I'm sure you saw is making ads 674 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,800 Speaker 3: to run the rest of the summer about Jeffrey Epstein 675 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 3: in a dozen Republican held house districts. It's going to 676 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 3: coincide with the recess, according to Axios, and will run. 677 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,319 Speaker 3: These videos are online, they'll run right before you see 678 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 3: something on a right wing YouTube channel. They're also going 679 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 3: to be on some Fox videos as well. I don't 680 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 3: know if these are necessary though, because people, from what 681 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:57,399 Speaker 3: we're hearing, are calling Republican lawmakers offices all day long 682 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 3: demanding the release of these documents. What do the ads do? 683 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,359 Speaker 7: I think there's a real risk in those ads, Joe. 684 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 7: I really hope that the Democrats are thoughtful enough. As 685 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 7: someone who's an operative who sees all the contours of 686 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 7: these kinds of issues, I really do hope that they're 687 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 7: mindful that there is a danger in overstepping and a 688 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 7: danger in pushing this too much to be too political, 689 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 7: because it very well could back It could backsplash on 690 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 7: them in a way that's not helpful. Yes, people want 691 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 7: to know more. They want answers to this Jeffrey Epstein issue, 692 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 7: and in general, they'd like to see the list. What 693 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 7: they really want is they want a scout, and I 694 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 7: think Democrats think that there's an opportunity here to inflict 695 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 7: harm on the president. And I think that Republicans see 696 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 7: this as a distraction from Republicans in Congress. Specifically, the 697 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 7: Speaker himself saw this as something that was standing in 698 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 7: the way of progress, so set aside politics. It was 699 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 7: definitely holding the Congress away from the possibility of advancing 700 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 7: legislation and getting work done. Another distraction and another political football. 701 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 7: It ought not to be a political football. It ought 702 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 7: to be a dress, and it ought to be questions 703 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 7: ought to be answered. But the back and the forth, 704 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,760 Speaker 7: I think is just another example of how the American 705 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 7: people look at Washington and think we're not serious because 706 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 7: we're letting all of these other things get in the 707 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 7: way of them doing their job. 708 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 3: Can't argue with that. The President today, when asked about it, 709 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 3: Lisa said he has not considered granting a pardon to 710 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,839 Speaker 3: Gallaine Maxwell. What would happen if he. 711 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 7: Did, Oh, I think people would probably assume that that's 712 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 7: just another example of how the president is some way, 713 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 7: in somehow entangled in all of this nonsense that's gone on. 714 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,400 Speaker 7: I mean, it seems to me the way his handling 715 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,799 Speaker 7: has been of this has been one that appears to 716 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,840 Speaker 7: be a guilty behavior. His behavior is concerning to people, 717 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,359 Speaker 7: and the fact that he continues to talk about it 718 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,840 Speaker 7: continues to make people wonder what role he has had 719 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 7: in any of this. But more importantly, he's doing everything 720 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 7: he can to distract from that by pointing at others 721 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 7: that were involved, by pointing at other issues, by raising 722 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 7: up other There has been a huge amount of distraction 723 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 7: in terms of the news every single day coming from 724 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 7: the White House. But Joe, you and I both know 725 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 7: that sooner or later there's either going to be someone 726 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 7: to answer for this or it's going to be just 727 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,960 Speaker 7: another thing where either we overreact or we do nothing 728 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,839 Speaker 7: in Washington, DC, And that's always the criticism of how 729 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 7: we do work here in the Capitol unbelievable. 730 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 3: I feel like to be a riot in Lafayette Square 731 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 3: if that pardon came along. Interesting. When he was asked 732 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 3: about potentially pardoning p Diddy, he said he might think 733 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 3: about it. This one not so much. Lisa, It's great 734 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,280 Speaker 3: to see you. We're overdue. Lisa Camusso Miller Friddy Reporter podcast, 735 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 3: former RNC communications director look for on LinkedIn she makes 736 00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 3: magic out of that platform. Thanks for listening to the 737 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 3: Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you 738 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 3: haven't already an Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, 739 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 3: and you can find us live every weekday from Washington, 740 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 3: d C. At noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.