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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds and Donald Trump vows to end birthright citizenship.

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Speaker 2: We have such an interesting show today.

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Speaker 1: Vermont Representative Becca Blint talks to us about how the

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Speaker 1: freshman class of Congress relates to the rest of the body.

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Speaker 1: Then we'll talk two third ways Matt Bennett about the

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Speaker 1: danger that is no labels and how they're working to

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Speaker 1: get Trump elected under the guise of a third party candidate.

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Speaker 2: But first we have the Washington.

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Speaker 1: Posts, the plumb Lines. Greg Sergeant, Welcome back to Fast Politics.

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Speaker 2: Fan favorite Greg.

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Speaker 3: Sargeant, Thanks for having me and not always fun.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you first about this piece

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Speaker 1: you wrote that was published this morning that I immediately read

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Speaker 1: what is happening in Florida and it reminds me of

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Speaker 1: like brown back in Kansas.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really interesting comparison. Hadn't occurred to me.

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Speaker 3: But what we wrote about was in Hernando County, which

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Speaker 3: is in the western part of Florida, and DISSANTUS won

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Speaker 3: by forty points and Trump won by thirty points. There

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Speaker 3: was like a ferocious amount of pushback from liberal parents

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Speaker 3: and teachers and also kids against kind of the right

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Speaker 3: wing culture warring that's going on in that county, which

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Speaker 3: is really very very frialent and nasty. That's the place

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Speaker 3: where the teacher got punished for showing her class a

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Speaker 3: Disney film with a gay character, and people were very

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Speaker 3: upset about that and all the other right wing culture

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Speaker 3: war craziness that's going on. And so this thing went

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Speaker 3: on for like seven hours or something, maybe eight hours,

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Speaker 3: and it was really quite a show of force for

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Speaker 3: the anti anti woke side. If that's the right way

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Speaker 3: to put it. I guess that's not quite the way right,

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Speaker 3: just the pro woke, the pro woke side, that's a

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Speaker 3: much better way to put it.

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Speaker 1: I Mean, what I think is interesting here is that

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Speaker 1: you have a lot of students being like, I just

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Speaker 1: want to learn.

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Speaker 2: Yes, can you talk about that?

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Speaker 1: Because I feel like there's a really good point here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And that seems to be having paid attention to

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Speaker 3: a bunch of these kinds of outbreaks of liberal resistance

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Speaker 3: in red states all over the place, which is a

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Speaker 3: really big story. By the way, I want to say this,

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Speaker 3: This is a big story.

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Speaker 4: People.

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Speaker 3: The press constantly hangs over every word of what the

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Speaker 3: right wing says on this stuff and treats Moms for

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Speaker 3: Liberty as like a set of really authentic voices when

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Speaker 3: they're just really right activists and minority position. They represent

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Speaker 3: a minority position in their communities a lot of the talk.

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Speaker 3: But so you know, there's a liberal counter mobilization happening

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Speaker 3: all over the place, and that's a big story, but

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Speaker 3: the pros isn't really covering it. It's starting to change now,

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Speaker 3: but anyway, and part of it is what you just said,

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Speaker 3: which is that the students are just absolutely sick of

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Speaker 3: being told that they're being in duc trenated by liberals, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, they just want to do school.

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Speaker 1: So do you think that it comes back to this

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Speaker 1: idea that the smartest lie Republicans ever told the mainstream

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Speaker 1: media was that they were too liberal and so they

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Speaker 1: are constantly overcompensating.

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Speaker 3: You could draw a parallel back to twenty nine to

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Speaker 3: twenty ten when the Tea Party was really kind of

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Speaker 3: getting going. The same thing happened. Then they were treated

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Speaker 3: like this really authentic on the ground movement, and it

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Speaker 3: felt a lot like the press was terrified of missing

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Speaker 3: what's really going on out there in right wing America.

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Speaker 3: You saw that same thing happened with the Trump voters

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Speaker 3: and diners, right right, there's sort of this perennial terror

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Speaker 3: among the media that they're missing the real authentic America

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Speaker 3: that's out there, and often it's right wing America that

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Speaker 3: they're talking about when they say that, and center left

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Speaker 3: to America, which is pretty substantial judging by the last

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Speaker 3: you know, eight presidential elections, right, or I should say,

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Speaker 3: the popular vote in the last presidential elections is sort

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Speaker 3: of rarely accorded that same kind of respect and deference

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Speaker 3: and kind of fawning coverage. And it's a strange disconnect.

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Speaker 3: And maybe you're right that that's the cause of it.

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Speaker 3: That the smartest lie that the right ever told was

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Speaker 3: that reporters are overly liberal, and so that could be

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Speaker 3: the cause of a part of it. But I think

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Speaker 3: there's also like a genuine feeling among a lot of

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Speaker 3: reporters that they are kind of culturally out of step

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Speaker 3: with some sort of real authentic America that's out there

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Speaker 3: somewhere that they're missing.

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Speaker 1: And I would like to add that the entire career

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Speaker 1: of Selena Zeitel was you know made by her pretending

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Speaker 1: to go to diners.

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Speaker 3: That is a good point. And you know, there's sort

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Speaker 3: of another effect that you can kind of discern here,

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Speaker 3: which is that someone like that is fairly skillfully playing

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Speaker 3: on the press's kind of insecurities about missing that quote

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Speaker 3: unquote real America out there. And so whenever someone like

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Speaker 3: that publishes these stories that supposedly tap into this authentic

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Speaker 3: sentiment out there, a lot of mainstream reporters feel obliged

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Speaker 3: to sort of bow down and kind of suck up

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Speaker 3: to that kind of coverage and say, this person really

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Speaker 3: seems to be onto something. And it's a very frustrating dynamic.

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Speaker 1: Another thing that I really want to talk to you

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Speaker 1: about is the debt ceiling compromise has passed the House

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Speaker 1: yet another time when Biden did not have a ton

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Speaker 1: of good options really at all their stuff in there

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Speaker 1: for everyone to dislike. Don't get me wrong, And the

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Speaker 1: thing that keeps me up at night is some of

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Speaker 1: the permitting reform staff because that is not clear and

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Speaker 1: it looks like it opens the door to some environmental

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Speaker 1: stuff that's not good. But I mean, still a pretty

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Speaker 1: good deal considering that a large number of their publican

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Speaker 1: party wants to crash the economy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, you know, I was surprised by it.

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Speaker 3: A lot of other people in sort of our space

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Speaker 3: were surprised by it. I still think though, that it

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Speaker 3: was the right take to say beforehand, particularly you know,

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Speaker 3: a month ago or so, that Biden should be prepared

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Speaker 3: with a backup option, a unilateral option to exercise as

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Speaker 3: a last resort if.

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Speaker 2: Which would have been the discharge petition I.

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Speaker 3: Think, or the fourteenth Amendment route where the Treasury Secretary

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Speaker 3: keeps paying the bills because it'sction requires it.

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Speaker 1: The question of whether like this debt crisis pulls you

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Speaker 1: into recession is as much about the perception as it

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Speaker 1: is about the reality.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's I think another reason to sort of look

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Speaker 3: at what happened here and not celebrate. Right. There's sort

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Speaker 3: of a weird kind of smug tone among certain pundit

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Speaker 3: types and economists who kind of predicted that something like

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Speaker 3: this would happen. They seem very happy about what happened.

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Speaker 3: But what I don't quite get is can't we imagine

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Speaker 3: something better? Can't we imagine not negotiating an enormous spending

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Speaker 3: package under threat of default it's still not okay that

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Speaker 3: I'm unspooled that way.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, Ed Luce had a really good column

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Speaker 1: in the Ft about how like it didn't end up

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Speaker 1: being a catastrophe but it should have. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: we're going to Monday morning quarterback, and I don't want

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Speaker 1: to because I feel like, you know, we're seeing McCarthy

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Speaker 1: take a victory lap, and we're seeing pundits talk about

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Speaker 1: how maybe he's not as stupid as we all know

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Speaker 1: he is, when in fact, this is, if anything, you know,

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Speaker 1: it would theoretically be a Biden victory. But I do

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Speaker 1: think it's important to mention that they should have done

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Speaker 1: this in twenty twenty two when they could.

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Speaker 3: Oh absolutely yeah. I mean, I think there's a legitimate

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Speaker 3: argument over whether it was possible. Mansion and the Senators

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Speaker 3: Joe Manchin and Kirsten Cinema appeared to pose to doing

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Speaker 3: anything about the debt limit, but it's really clear that

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Speaker 3: there wasn't a very serious effort to do it, and

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Speaker 3: I think it really is unclear whether democratic leaders even

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Speaker 3: want it right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's that reporting which says that some Democrats

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Speaker 1: were saying it might actually make Democrats look good.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I think that's right, and that was just a

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Speaker 3: baffling kind of reading of it. And I will say

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Speaker 3: that that reading doesn't look quite as bad now as

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Speaker 3: it did a month ago, right, right, But still, I

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Speaker 3: think we got to come back to this point, like,

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Speaker 3: there's no reason to be doing this under this kind

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Speaker 3: of threat of duress. It's just it's crazy. It's no

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Speaker 3: one should ever say that's okay.

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Speaker 1: No, I agree, And I also think that sort of

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Speaker 1: more central to this is that in the end, McCarthy

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Speaker 1: did not have the votes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's true, and I think we always

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Speaker 3: knew that it would require a large block of House

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Speaker 3: Democrats pass, and you know, I think there's maybe some

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Speaker 3: thought on the left that more could have been gotten

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Speaker 3: because of that fact. I don't know if that's right

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Speaker 3: or not, but I suppose it's worth thinking about.

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Speaker 1: Hell, I mean, there was a snap expansion that is

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Speaker 1: sort of shocking to May.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but it comes.

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Speaker 1: Back to this idea that Republicans don't really like you

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Speaker 1: can't I mean, and I think this is a problem

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Speaker 1: McCarthy stumbled himself into. Though may not understand because I

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Speaker 1: don't think he understands things this complicated, But the Republicans

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Speaker 1: don't have a platform.

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Speaker 3: Anymore, right, I mean, it was actually kind of reasonable

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Speaker 3: to fear that maybe they'd want to crash the economy.

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Speaker 3: I mean, Donald Trump was saying that that's what should happen.

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Speaker 3: And I'm pretty sure he's like the leading candidates for

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Speaker 3: the Republican presidential nomination.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if anything, right, they're more interested in crashing the

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Speaker 1: economy than they are in shrinking the I mean, like

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Speaker 1: for so many years you could say Paul Ryan wants

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Speaker 1: to shrink the economy. You could say, well, they want

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Speaker 1: want to shrink the government, not the economy. But they

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Speaker 1: will shrink the economy by shrinking the government, you know.

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Speaker 1: And but but all of a sudden, that's not what

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Speaker 1: Trump wants at all. He doesn't want to shrink the government.

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Speaker 1: If anything, you know, he wants more of an erduan

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Speaker 1: like give people money to vote for me situation.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: Although you know, I think one of the things that

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Speaker 3: sort of the characters like Steve Benn and you know,

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Speaker 3: Marjorie Taylor Green is a bit of a puzzle in

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Speaker 3: all this. I've always thought of her as kind of

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Speaker 3: a little bit in the benin kind of nihilist slash

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Speaker 3: far right populist slash wants to bring everything crashing down

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Speaker 3: to rebuild a new order, a new nationalist order or whatever.

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Speaker 3: And she's kind of been much more allied with McCarthy

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Speaker 3: than I think a lot of people expected, right, But

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Speaker 3: it did seem like there was sort of a mega

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Speaker 3: position emerging which was to be kind of pro default,

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Speaker 3: because it kind of goes back to the Flight ninety

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Speaker 3: three election argument, right, like, if we're in a cultural emergency,

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Speaker 3: as as some of these you know, right wing types

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Speaker 3: seem to think or pretend to think, then and if

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Speaker 3: the Biden presidency is an emergency that borders being overrun,

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Speaker 3: woke misses destroying our institutions from within and so forth,

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Speaker 3: in saws want default to kind of bring it all

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Speaker 3: crashing down and build up a new order.

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Speaker 2: Right, It's the Jill Stein presidency argument.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting when we talk about this interest one of

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Speaker 1: the things I'm struck by which McCarthy maybe did play well.

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Speaker 1: And again, I never want to give him credit for anything,

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Speaker 1: because I think he's an object moren but I do

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Speaker 1: think it is interesting he took that very far right

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Speaker 1: flank and he brought them in and he became you know,

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Speaker 1: you saw Jim Jordan and Marjorie Taylor Green become his

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Speaker 1: biggest sort of boosters, and you have to wonder if

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Speaker 1: it's really true that these people actually don't believe in anything.

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Speaker 1: They just want friends.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean Kevin McCarthy seems like that. That seems

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Speaker 3: like a good reading of Kevin McCarthy, right, he really,

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Speaker 3: I mean it's pretty shrewd the way he seems to

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Speaker 3: have defined the possibility of a challenge to his leadership.

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Speaker 3: I still don't feel like I understand that dynamic very well,

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Speaker 3: do you.

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Speaker 1: I mean, right, I thought he was nice to the

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Speaker 1: people who always felt that they were kind of outsiders

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Speaker 1: and that nobody was nice to them. And that's Marjorie

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Speaker 1: Tayler Green and Jim Jordan. And because these people don't

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Speaker 1: ultimately really believe in anything, I mean, you could see,

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Speaker 1: like Chip Roy, but even Thomas Massey, I mean, Thomas

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Speaker 1: Massey wants to you know, he's a real full libertarian,

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Speaker 1: wants to destroy the federal government.

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Speaker 2: So he votes yes. Yeah, I'm glad he.

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Speaker 1: Voted yes, because I don't want the federal government to

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Speaker 1: be destroyed. But you know, if you do believe in things,

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Speaker 1: then you should theoretically believe in them. I'm just this

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Speaker 1: is sort of the Yogi bearra school of politics. So

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Speaker 1: that was my question, is like, what is happening here?

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Speaker 1: I do also think, and again this was something that

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Speaker 1: we saw earlier on when when McCarthy couldn't win all

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Speaker 1: those votes votes.

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Speaker 2: Is that there's not anyone who really wants this job.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if you think back to Bayner, John Bayner

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Speaker 3: and Paul Ryan, those guys were just so visibly unhappy

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Speaker 3: in their role. I don't know if I don't know

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Speaker 3: if your listeners will remember this, but there was a

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Speaker 3: moment that I always think back to when John Bayner

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Speaker 3: and he was probably you know, maybe his mental state

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Speaker 3: was altered by some sort of liquid substance or something.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 3: But he was really very visibly pissed off at the

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Speaker 3: right for not getting on board with immigration reform. That

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Speaker 3: was when Republicans there was a sizable block of Republicans

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Speaker 3: who wanted to do immigration reform, not back then.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, hard to imagine.

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Speaker 3: And he did this cull routine right in front of

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Speaker 3: reporters where he just mocked the shit out of these

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Speaker 3: right wingers in all kinds of crazy, funny ways. And

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Speaker 3: you know, his his visible you know, dislike of the

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Speaker 3: job was so clear.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean I think we can all agree this is

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Speaker 1: not a good job. Yeah, Scalize doesn't want it. And

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Speaker 1: you even look at like what's happened in the leadership,

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Speaker 1: like it doesn't seem that people are just delighted with

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Speaker 1: the experience of being in the GOP leadership.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, can we float this though? Does Kevin

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Speaker 3: McCarthy kind of like it?

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Speaker 1: I think he is his lifelong dream, That's all he's

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Speaker 1: ever wanted. I mean, you know, the man had to like,

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Speaker 1: you know, lapdog to Trump.

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Speaker 2: Mike Kevin. Yeah, remember Mike Kevin.

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Speaker 5: Yes.

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Speaker 3: And also I think if you think back to just

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Speaker 3: before that, right, or well not just before that, but

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Speaker 3: right after January sixth, Trump had practically literally sent his

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Speaker 3: supporters into Kevin McCarthy's office to do some pretty serious damage,

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Speaker 3: and Kevin McCarthy privately started saying to people that he

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Speaker 3: should resign, and then he made that pilgrimage Tomorrow Lago,

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Speaker 3: which was one of the most abject things, to use

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Speaker 3: your word, that I think we've ever seen in politics.

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Speaker 3: At least can contemporary politics, and so at that point

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Speaker 3: it was clear that he had made his deal to

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Speaker 3: get speakership by essentially insulating Trump from accountability at all costs,

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Speaker 3: which he did for years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the deal with the Devil that Kevin McCarthy made

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Speaker 1: was that he decided that he would put his quest

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Speaker 1: for the speakership over American democracy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very clear. I mean, he did everything he

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Speaker 3: could to frustrate a real accounting into January sixth. Let's

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Speaker 3: recall this, right, the deal that he made with I

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Speaker 3: guess we should call it a sort of a long

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Speaker 3: term kind of deal with the devil type situation with

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Speaker 3: Marjorie Taylor Green. But remember she was on the hook

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Speaker 3: for openly espousing something like real political violence. She had

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Speaker 3: engaged in some pretty naked anti Muslim bigotry, and he

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Speaker 3: protected her through all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean that is absolutely true. Some progressives voted

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Speaker 1: against it. But do you think ultimately everyone's largely happy

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Speaker 1: and relieved.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think there's a genuine sort of unhappiness among progressives.

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Speaker 3: To go back to what we talked about earlier, I

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Speaker 3: think everybody's very pissed about the fundamental the structural aspects

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Speaker 3: of the situation. Right that the very fact that this

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Speaker 3: had to occur under duress is itself infuriating, and I

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Speaker 3: think progressives are right to continue to raise hell about that.

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Speaker 3: It's not okay. I mean, there's a legitimate argument to

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Speaker 3: be had about whether there was an actual ransom paid

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Speaker 3: for the hostage, right, But there's no doubt that a

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Speaker 3: hostage was taken, and there was visible damage to the country,

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Speaker 3: like lots and lots of people were frightened about their

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Speaker 3: losing their social security and so forth, and there was

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Speaker 3: talk of a debt downgrade, and that actually happened during

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Speaker 3: the last one.

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Speaker 2: Right in twenty eleven.

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Speaker 3: In twenty eleven. And so what we never factor in

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Speaker 3: when we talk about this deal that was reached is

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Speaker 3: the long term downside of legitimizing extortion as a kind

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Speaker 3: of conventional tool of politics. Right, it can't be okay,

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Speaker 3: And that's one of the things that progressives are rightly

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Speaker 3: pissed off about, and I think they should continue to

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Speaker 3: raise holy hell about that. Thank you so much, Thanks

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Speaker 3: very much.

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Speaker 1: Rebecca Ballant represents Vermont's first district. Welcome to Fast Politics, Congresswoman.

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Speaker 4: Balant, Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're excited to have you.

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Speaker 1: We will now have had all of the federal legislators

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Speaker 1: from Vermont. Fantastic, Yes, we'll have the TRIFACTA. So you

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Speaker 1: are the one congresswoman from Vermont, that's right, the lone one,

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Speaker 1: the loan congresswoman. Let's first talk about this incredible legislation

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Speaker 1: you guys passed yesterday. Tell me what was happening, what

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Speaker 1: was going through your head, and also how you voted

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Speaker 1: and how it went down.

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Speaker 4: Okay, first of all, to understand what happened on the

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Speaker 4: floor yesterday, you have to go back to our first

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Speaker 4: week on the job, when there were fifteen votes per speaker. Right.

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Speaker 4: And so when you think about how it was that

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Speaker 4: McCarthy was able to become a speaker to begin with,

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Speaker 4: that he cut deals with the most extreme elements of

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Speaker 4: his conference. That is literally how he became speaker. And

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Speaker 4: so none of us should be surprised that we even

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Speaker 4: had this emergency. Right, this was a manufactured crisis. They

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Speaker 4: raised the dead stealing three times under Trump. Right, this manufacturer.

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Speaker 4: But the moment when I thought, oh my gosh, they

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Speaker 4: really are not ready for prime time, They really don't

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Speaker 4: know what they're doing. Was when it was a procedural vote,

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Speaker 4: just to bring it to the floor, right, you need

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Speaker 4: a rule suspension, and McCarthy didn't.

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Speaker 2: Have the votes to do it because we're.

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Speaker 4: All standing there watching the board really like, seriously, you

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Speaker 4: don't even have the votes for the procedural vote. And

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Speaker 4: so in the end, I believe it was twenty nine

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Speaker 4: Democrats needed to switch their vote to give them to

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Speaker 4: give McCarthy the ability to bring it to the floor.

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Speaker 4: That does not bode well, right, the next vote coming, right,

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Speaker 4: because that's just the procedural hurdle. So it's more of

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Speaker 4: the same, right, it's more of this this extremist element

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Speaker 4: of his conference in the driver's seat. And so I

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Speaker 4: really my feelings about the deal went through all different stages,

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Speaker 4: almost like the stages of grief, right, right. And so

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Speaker 4: when we got the top lines on Sunday night from

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Speaker 4: the White House, it was before we even saw the

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Speaker 4: text of the bill, I was feeling generally like okay,

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Speaker 4: like crisis averted. It seems like the negotiators in the

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Speaker 4: White House did did a good job with the bad

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Speaker 4: hand they'd been dealt. And then on Monday I was

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Speaker 4: in meetings, as many of my colleagues were for hours,

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Speaker 4: hours and hours on Monday trying to dive into the details.

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Speaker 4: And then as we were diving into the details, I

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Speaker 4: felt like, ugh, like.

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Speaker 2: The permitting reform, the environmental stuff freak you out?

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Speaker 4: Yes, right, oh, totally completely. And in the fact that

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Speaker 4: they're always beating up on poor people right right, I

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Speaker 4: mean again this trope again.

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Speaker 1: But they are so stupid that they did actually increase snap.

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Speaker 4: I know, it's pretty genius.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, it was.

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Speaker 4: Masterful on the part of the President and his negotiators

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Speaker 4: because in the end we got more people covered, but

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Speaker 4: not before again they dragged poor people and poor working

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Speaker 4: families through the mud again, right, for essentially very little

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Speaker 4: in supports. And we're not going to balance the budget

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Speaker 4: eliminating people's you know, food support.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure anyone's even interested in balancing the budget

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Speaker 1: at this point.

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Speaker 4: Exactly.

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Speaker 6: Well, that's it, you said the quiet part out loud, right,

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Speaker 6: which is no, they're not. They're not, because if you

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Speaker 6: add a seriousness and purpose, you would be looking at

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Speaker 6: what added to this deficit under the Trump ears, right,

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Speaker 6: where these devastating tax cuts that weren't paid for adding

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Speaker 6: over a trillion dollars, right, So I ran through through

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Speaker 6: all kinds of emotions. But when seeing the dysfunction and

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Speaker 6: realizing they couldn't even get a procedural boat passed, it

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Speaker 6: was clear to me that there was real danger that

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Speaker 6: we could default, and I'm not going to be part

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Speaker 6: of that. That is, you know what I was saying

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Speaker 6: to a reporter earlier. The bill is distasteful, A default

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Speaker 6: is catastrophic.

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Speaker 4: And so you know, you you make the best of

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Speaker 4: the cards you're dealt, and you fight like hell on

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Speaker 4: the Appropriations Bill and on the Farm bill and all

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Speaker 4: that stuff that is going to come up. But it

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Speaker 4: should be surprising to know one that this is how

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Speaker 4: the conference is leading, given how McCarthy handed over the

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Speaker 4: steering wheel too, folks like Marjorie Taylor Green, Lauren Bobert,

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Speaker 4: Paul Gosart, like the extremist of the conference.

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Speaker 1: But what I was a little bit interested in, and again,

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Speaker 1: you never want to hand it to McCarthy's I am

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Speaker 1: in no way handing it to mcarthury. He made overtures

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Speaker 1: to those guys like Jim Jordan, and then they supported him, Yes,

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Speaker 1: which is proof that if you're just nice to them.

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Speaker 2: They don't actually have any values. That's it. They don't

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Speaker 2: have any values.

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Speaker 4: And also who's their cash cow? Right? Some of this

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Speaker 4: comes right down to money in their districts, right. So

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Speaker 4: unfortunately that is the always the underbelly, which is where

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Speaker 4: you're getting your money from. But yes, Marjorie Taylor Green

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Speaker 4: has been right by his side. I think he was

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Speaker 4: even quoted as saying is I will never abandon that woman,

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Speaker 4: which she was just like I can have her, man.

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Speaker 7: Right, you washed the bile out of my mouth, you know.

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Speaker 1: I Mean what I'm struck by is the way in

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Speaker 1: which she was like, it's a shit sandwich, and then

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Speaker 1: she's like, but I'm gonna vote for it exactly. So

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Speaker 1: that incredible. Yeah, So I know, director Young really was

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Speaker 1: sort of the hero of this story.

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Speaker 4: Right, absolutely, And when she walked into caucus yesterday morning,

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Speaker 4: we all gave her a skin ovation. That's how well

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Speaker 4: respected she is. Even though there were parts of the

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Speaker 4: deal that we didn't like, Even though we are so

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Speaker 4: angry that we're even in this situation, she is absolutely

440
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 4: should be hailed as a hero because she's incredibly smart,

441
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 4: she is incredibly experienced, and she knows how to work

442
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,439
Speaker 4: with people. Oh shocking. You need people negotiations who know

443
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 4: how to work people. And yeah, I actually it's on

444
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 4: my list of notes to write this week. There's not

445
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 4: to like a handwritten note and drop her a line

446
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 4: and just tell her, like, what a great job that

447
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 4: she did, not just for you know, this isn't about

448
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 4: Democrats versus Republicans. This is about she did work on

449
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 4: behalf of the American people to make sure we didn't default.

450
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,880
Speaker 4: And that's that's huge, huge.

451
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: She is also the first African American woman to ever

452
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: have that job exactly.

453
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 4: Yeah. Again, like we love to celebrate first, I was

454
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 4: a first right, first woman to represent form, first queer person.

455
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 4: All these things we do need to celebrate first and

456
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 4: also we have to, you know, at the same time

457
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 4: time shake our heads and say, really, it took this long, Right,

458
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 4: it took this long for an African American woman to

459
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 4: be in those negotiations. It is shocking. Yeah, I'm so

460
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 4: pleased that she is in a position that she said.

461
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 1: I wanted just one last second on the director of

462
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 1: Office of Office Management and Budget, Right, is that.

463
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 2: What it's called her?

464
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 4: That's right?

465
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

466
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: Yes, she also went supposedly McCarthy said that she was

467
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: so respected even he could not say something bad about

468
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 1: her to sort of that was the effect of what

469
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 1: I read exactly.

470
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 4: And mckenry, one of the negotiators for McCarthy, said a

471
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 4: similar thing, that it was this sense of almost an

472
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 4: exhaling moment for everyone that, oh, like, we're getting serious

473
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 4: about these negotiations. This isn't for show. Shalanda's in the room.

474
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:56,360
Speaker 4: This must mean that we're actually going to negotiate an

475
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 4: actual deal. And that just speaks volumes for the word

476
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 4: that she did for years. I believe she was a

477
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 4: staffer on the Appropriations committee at so she knows. She

478
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 4: knows how to build budgets. She knows how to again,

479
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 4: as I said, bring people together. It is. It is

480
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 4: a lost art and I want to be part of those,

481
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 4: you know, part of that coalition bringing back the lost

482
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,719
Speaker 4: art of actually working well with people. And yeah, it is,

483
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 4: it is critically important.

484
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 2: You are also in a very insane freshman class.

485
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: So well, I feel like we just had like the

486
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 1: lovely light government sometimes works. I mean, let's be honest here,

487
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 1: it seems like Democrats fell asleep at the wheel a

488
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: little bit with the House losing the House because you

489
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,239
Speaker 1: know there are eighteen seats in this House that are

490
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: occupied by Republicans in Biden districts.

491
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, we need to do a better job in twenty

492
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 4: twenty four. Absolutely, we need to not take any fee

493
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 4: for granted, right, We need to get back at least

494
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 4: five vot you know, guaranteed VOTs to get to flip

495
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 4: those seats, get back those seats that we lost in

496
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 4: New York and California that we never should have lost. Absolutely,

497
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:09,919
Speaker 4: and so yeah, we have we of course we have

498
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 4: some blame here as well as this whole debacle over

499
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 4: the debt ceiling. We could have you know, done away

500
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 4: with it when we were in charge, and we didn't.

501
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 4: That's on us, right, So that's work that we have

502
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 4: to do going forward. And so what is inspiring to me,

503
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 4: even in my frustration about being in the minority and

504
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 4: looking at the dysfunction of the Republican Conference, the thing

505
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 4: that gives me inspiration is the number of really inspiring

506
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 4: Democratic freshmen who have come in with me. I love

507
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 4: my class.

508
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: Tell me about the inspiring Democratic freshman, because I've seen

509
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: some not so inspiring George Santos's.

510
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 4: That is right, all right, So let's talk about them.

511
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 4: There's so many of them, and many of them serve

512
00:26:54,920 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 4: with me on oversight. So you've got Jasmine Crockett, You've

513
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 4: got Summer Great Kassar, Maxwell Frost.

514
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 2: We just had Summer lay on Yes and Maxwell Frost.

515
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 4: I know, I listen and Robert Garcia and then Daddio

516
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 4: Ramirez and Morgan McGarvey from Louisville. I love my class.

517
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 4: I feel a kinship with them, even if we don't

518
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 4: agree on all political policies. Like we have a tight

519
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 4: group of you know, it goes from the blue dogs

520
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 4: to the progressives within our class, and we have a

521
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 4: signal chat. We all are talking with each other. We

522
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 4: lift each other's work up to the group. It was

523
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 4: one of my biggest fears in leaving the Vermont legislation.

524
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 4: So I was the president of the Senate. We pass

525
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 4: some really progressive legislation in Vermont, including codifying reproductive rights

526
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 4: in our constitution. Like we did some really great stuff,

527
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 4: And my biggest fear was I'm leaving a very functioning

528
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 4: body to come here to Congress, and will I have allies?

529
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 4: Will I feel a kinship? Will I have a group

530
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 4: that will continue to really nourish me because it's the

531
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 4: hard work, right. You need to get inspiration from the

532
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 4: people around you because there's so much to spare, and

533
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 4: I do get that from them. And even when we're

534
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 4: in oversight and once again they're beating up on queer

535
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 4: people or trans kids or poor people, right, I know

536
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 4: that Maxwell Frost is to my right and Summerly is

537
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 4: to my left, and together we're going to be refuting

538
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 4: the misinformation and disinformation and we all make each other laugh, like, yeah,

539
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 4: you can't lose your sense of humor. And so I

540
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 4: just feel very fortunate to be coming in at this time.

541
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 4: And it's no accident. Right, pretty much every Democratic freshman

542
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 4: ran because of what happened on January sixth, So it

543
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 4: was an absolute pivotal, crystallizing moment. Democracy is fundamentally at risk,

544
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 4: and so we have that finding us together, and it's

545
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 4: really powerful.

546
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 2: You're gay.

547
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 4: I am very gay.

548
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 2: I have a gay kid.

549
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: It seems like I've never ever I mean no, I

550
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: had a lot of members.

551
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 2: Of my family were gay. Most of them have died.

552
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 2: But that's why I say were, Yeah.

553
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: I mean Republicans are just attacking gay people in a

554
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: way that I did not think whatever happen now.

555
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're seeing the nineteen seventies all over again, as

556
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 4: we're seeing has come back again. And when we see this,

557
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 4: when you make advances, the backlash comes and we're in

558
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 4: the backlash. And what is the most disheartening for me

559
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 4: is that they are punching down. They're picking on kids constantly, right,

560
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 4: And that's the piece for me. I'm an adult. I

561
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 4: have dealt with the homophobia my whole life. It's another

562
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 4: issue entirely when you are going after queer entrance kids

563
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 4: in their families. I mean, these are some of these kids,

564
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 4: are you know, ten eleven years old? I certain I

565
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 4: knew when I was eleven that I was gay. I

566
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 4: didn't come out to my friends or family till much later.

567
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 4: But a couple of weeks ago, we had an extraordinary

568
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 4: meeting with parents of trans kids. They came to the

569
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 4: capital to talk to us about what their experiences are,

570
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 4: and somewhere from quote unquote blue blue states, some from

571
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 4: red states, and they all had the same thing to say,

572
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,719
Speaker 4: which is, you have no idea how painful it is

573
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 4: for our children for them to watch their own government

574
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 4: attack them.

575
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 2: Right.

576
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, there is the toll it's taking in terms of

577
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 4: the care they're not being able to get, whether they're

578
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 4: they're not able to get their gender affirming care. But

579
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 4: then there's also the psychological and emotional toll that your

580
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 4: government hates you, that your government hates you, and that

581
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 4: there are people who have absolutely no qualms about showing

582
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 4: that hatred because they believe that the base on the

583
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 4: right will respond. And it is very disheartening. But we

584
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 4: have been here before, like I know this, I know

585
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 4: this play. That's what they always go to when they

586
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 4: don't have any substantive politan discussions, when they don't want

587
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 4: to actually talk about the unfair tax code or the

588
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 4: fact that we're burning the planet or you know, any

589
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 4: of those things. Let's beat up on people who are

590
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 4: vulnerable because we don't think there are enough people to

591
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 4: speak for them. And that's the message that I want

592
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 4: to let people know. And actually I listened to your

593
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 4: great interview with Megan Hunt. We got to know each

594
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 4: other through the Victory Fund, which is an organization that

595
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 4: supports who are in trans candidates. And you know, she

596
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 4: is a hopeful person. I'm a hopeful person. One of

597
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 4: the takeaways that I had and listening to that interview

598
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 4: you did, was that we need allies. We need people

599
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 4: for whom this doesn't impact their lives day in and

600
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 4: day out, to stand up for us because we are

601
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 4: tired and we're attacked. I feel like I have figured

602
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 4: out a way not to let the homophobia and a

603
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 4: hatred get to me. Like I don't read the comments, right,

604
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 4: I don't, but you know all those things, never to comment.

605
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 4: And also I've just been deciding, I'm in a blue district.

606
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 4: I'm going to be unapologetically myself and be joyful about it.

607
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 4: And so you know, we have these little stickers and

608
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 4: T shirts that we made that just say scrappy little

609
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 4: Dike on them because that's who I am. Like, I'm scrappy,

610
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 4: I'm little, I'm a dyke, and you know what, I'm

611
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 4: not going to hurt you. I'm just going to fight

612
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 4: for everyone. That's my message. I'm fighting for everyone, and

613
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 4: we need allies that will stand with us. I think

614
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 4: you can bring people to you when you are joyful,

615
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 4: So I try to go through my days in that way.

616
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: I have one last question for you, what are you

617
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: doing in Vermont? That is that the rest of the

618
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: country should be doing legislatively.

619
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, certainly around reproductive rights, we absolutely should be

620
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 4: doing that. We have been leading on our childcare initiatives,

621
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 4: and I was just watching the local news this morning

622
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 4: worrying about what the governor was be telling you.

623
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 2: Have a Republican governor do exactly.

624
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 4: He is a sort of an old styled New England Republican,

625
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 4: which is of course like he's one of like what

626
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,719
Speaker 4: three left in New England. That's right, And so I

627
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 4: was watching this morning. He may be setting us back

628
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 4: on some of those initiatives. But I think one of

629
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 4: the things that we've tried to do in Vermont is

630
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 4: really look at who is suffering the most under this

631
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 4: income inequality gap that has grown into a huge chasm

632
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 4: in the last few decades, and how do we make

633
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 4: sure that we are supporting those families and those individuals

634
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 4: who are most vulnerable. And that's really what has been

635
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 4: driving our budget decisions and our policy decisions. And I

636
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 4: think rural America desperately needs this right now. And that's

637
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 4: one of the reasons why I'm from a rural state, right.

638
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 4: I mean, our largest city is Burlington, which is really

639
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 4: not that big, and you know, and I'm not from there.

640
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 4: I'm from the southern part of the state that is

641
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 4: that is rural. The rest of the state is rural,

642
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 4: and I really want to figure out a way to

643
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 4: make these ideas not about blue state, red state, and

644
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 4: more about this is what rural America needs right now,

645
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 4: because we're dying.

646
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: And rural America really has problems that the rest of

647
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: America doesn't.

648
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 4: Yes, they don't have access to medical care or dentists

649
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:21,479
Speaker 4: or psychologists, or depending on where you are, you don't

650
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 4: have the infrastructure that is supporting you and your family,

651
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 4: and you don't have mass transit, and you don't have

652
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 4: the ability to shop locally all of those things. And

653
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 4: I think there is a place for me right now,

654
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 4: even as an as of a.

655
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,439
Speaker 7: Motorcycle riding gay woman from Rio from Vermont, to make

656
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 7: the case that we do not need to be demonizing

657
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 7: each other and dehumanizing each other on these extreme issues

658
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 7: that the Republicans are bringing up because it's just killing

659
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 7: people who are living on the margins.

660
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. This was great.

661
00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 1: Hi, it's Molly, and I am wildly excited that for

662
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: the first time Fast Politics, the show you're listening to

663
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: right now, is going to have merch for sale over

664
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: at shop dot Fastpoliticspod dot com.

665
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666
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667
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668
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669
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:31,640
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00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:41,800
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672
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 2: Thanks for your support.

673
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 1: Matt Bennett is the vice president of Third Way. Welcome

674
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,399
Speaker 1: to Fast Politics.

675
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,240
Speaker 2: Matt, thanks so much.

676
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: Explain to us a little bit about who you are.

677
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 5: And what you do.

678
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 8: Sure, so, I am a co founder a EVP at

679
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 8: a think tank and advocacy group called Third Way in Washington,

680
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 8: and we're basically moderate Democrats. We work with the center left.

681
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 8: I think Joe Biden as our ideology, and we do

682
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 8: a whole range of things, and I spend a lot

683
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 8: of my time thinking about politics, and especially at the

684
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 8: moment presidential politics.

685
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 2: Talk to me about what you're worry about.

686
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 8: The thing that is really worrying us at the moment

687
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 8: is an effort on the part of a group called

688
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 8: No Labels to field a third party candidate in twenty

689
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 8: twenty four. This kind of flew under the radar for

690
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 8: a while until David Brooks wrote about it back in September,

691
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 8: and it became clear that they have a lot of

692
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 8: money and that they were intending to try to get

693
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,479
Speaker 8: on the ballot in every state. And when we looked

694
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 8: at this, it became very evident not only that they

695
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 8: could never possibly win the election, but if they go

696
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 8: forward with this, they could serve as a spoiler and

697
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 8: help reelect Trump.

698
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 4: So that really worried us.

699
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 1: Talk to us about where the no labels money comes from, Well.

700
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 8: It's important to emphasize that we don't know exactly because

701
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 8: they're organized as a five oh one C four, which

702
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 8: means they can keep their donors secret, and they do.

703
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,720
Speaker 8: There has been some reporting on a few people who

704
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 8: give to them. They tend to be center right or

705
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 8: Republican finance types.

706
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 2: They're not Democrats. I think is important to hit a

707
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 2: point they're not.

708
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 8: It used to be that they had a more bipartisan

709
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 8: group of donors, but a while ago they got involved

710
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 8: in a Senate race in Colorado and they endorsed Corey Gardner,

711
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 8: the Republican, against Mark Yudahl, who was a moderate Democrat

712
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 8: and a lot of their Democratic donors kind of fled

713
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 8: after that. So it's Republican.

714
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: So let's talk about what they're doing now to try

715
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: to undermine this election.

716
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 8: Well, what they say they're doing is offering voters a

717
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 8: choice because nobody wants a rematch a Biden Trump.

718
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 2: But that's bullshit, right, that's what they claim.

719
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 8: What they actually are doing is they have people on

720
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,240
Speaker 8: the ground in every state or most states right now

721
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 8: seeking ballot access, and there's a quirk in the law

722
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 8: that in thirty five states they can do that even

723
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 8: though they're a C four, Their donors are secret, they

724
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 8: raise on limited amounts of money. They're not a political

725
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 8: party operating under all these other rules that would apply

726
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 8: if they were. And they have already collected at least

727
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 8: forty million dollars. They claim they're on their way to

728
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 8: seventy million. That's a lot of money for a third

729
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 8: party effort. Yeah, and that's just to.

730
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 2: Get on the ballot.

731
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 8: They are playing foot seat with people like Joe Manchin

732
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 8: and possibly Christian Cinema, Larry Hogan, the former governor of Maryland.

733
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 8: They want to feel the bipartisan ticket, and they are

734
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 8: telling their donors and supporters that they can do this

735
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 8: in a way where they can actually win, But that's nonsense.

736
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 8: What they will actually do is spoil.

737
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: But they really only want to get on the ballot

738
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: in states where they could throw the election to Trump.

739
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 2: Too, It's hard to know.

740
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 8: I mean, they actually have called for the ballot in

741
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 8: a few red states, so I'm not sure that's right.

742
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 2: Where have they qualified so far? Right?

743
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 8: So the first place was Arizona, right, which is a

744
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 8: place where they really could throw the election to that

745
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 8: absolutely could. I mean, lecture was decided by zero point

746
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 8: two percent last time. They are on in Florida and there,

747
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 8: which has become unfortunately a red state, as Steve Shale

748
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 8: writes about today in The Bulwark. But then they're they're

749
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 8: trying to qualify basically everywhere. They have now said they

750
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 8: want to be on in fifty states, and they've put

751
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 8: out this electoral map where they claim they're going to

752
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 8: win twenty five or twenty six states. It's insane to

753
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 8: think that they could win anything much less twenty six states.

754
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 8: But they are there purporting that this is a national effort,

755
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 8: and it appears they have the money to do that.

756
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 8: That's really scary, It really is I mean, just to

757
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 8: put this in perspective about how damaging this could be.

758
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,879
Speaker 8: In twenty sixteen, Jill Stein and Gary Johnson were two

759
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 8: third party candidates on the ballot. They did not have

760
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 8: much money, they did not have any name idea almost anywhere.

761
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,320
Speaker 8: But they were an alternative for a lot of voters

762
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 8: who didn't like either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. And

763
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 8: a lot of voters, at least a lot, in the

764
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 8: context of a very close race, chose that option. They

765
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,760
Speaker 8: got five six seven percent in a lot of swing states.

766
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 8: Just to give you a sense of how devastating this

767
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 8: was in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, which is we all

768
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 8: remember those were the three states that killed Clinton. If

769
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 8: she'd won those, she'd have been president. She lost them

770
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 8: very narrowly. In all three of those states, Trump won

771
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 8: in twenty sixteen, and he lost them in twenty twenty. Nevertheless,

772
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 8: his share of the vote in all three went up

773
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 8: from sixteen to twenty. And the reason is some of

774
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 8: the third party voters from sixteen went to Trump, but

775
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 8: more went to Biden, so Biden. Biden's share relative to

776
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 8: hillaryes went up by more. It's crystal clear evidence that

777
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 8: a third party candidate can be a spoiler. It certainly

778
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,839
Speaker 8: wasn't twenty sixteen. It obviously was with Ralph Nader in

779
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 8: two thousand and A very well financed third party candidate

780
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,240
Speaker 8: could be incredibly dangerous and damaging.

781
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 2: Yes, what can we do to prevent this from happening?

782
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 8: Well, unfortunately, the options are somewhat limited. I mean, it's

783
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 8: a free country. They can do this if they want to.

784
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 8: They have enough money to have a sophisticated operation to

785
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 8: gather signatures and get on the ballot in the states

786
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 8: where they're able to before they have a candidate. Incidentally,

787
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 8: they claim they're going to hold a nominating convention in

788
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 8: April next year in Dallas. They will choose their candidate then,

789
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 8: and then that candidate will be in charge. So between

790
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 8: now and April, what we are focused on is trying

791
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 8: to convince both their donors and their potential candidates that

792
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 8: this is a terrible and destructive idea that will lead

793
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 8: to the reelection of Trump. And we're having a degree

794
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 8: of success with that, And I think listeners can help

795
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 8: by getting the word out that the no Labels effort

796
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 8: is simply going to re elect Trump, whether they intend

797
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 8: that or not, and they have run into some skepticism

798
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 8: from some of their donors. It has made some of

799
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 8: the people that are potential candidates for them, like Manchinsinna

800
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 8: and Hogan somewhat defensive. And I think that Drumbeat needs

801
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 8: to get a lot louder.

802
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:23,839
Speaker 1: So let me ask you where Harland Crowe figures into this.

803
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, so we all remember Harlan Crowe from the incredible

804
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 8: reporting don about Clarence Thomas and the trips on his

805
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 8: yacht and his Garden of Evil and all of that.

806
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 8: It turns out that he is one of or perhaps

807
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 8: the top donor to no Labels. Again, hard to know

808
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 8: because it's all secret. Apparently, according to some reporting, he

809
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,479
Speaker 8: is a major donor of theirs. And they've got other people.

810
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 8: There's a guy named Nelson Peltz who was close to Trump.

811
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 2: At one time.

812
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 8: He's a big donor. Andrew Tish, whose brother is a

813
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 8: big Democratic donor. Andrew is a Republican. So to your

814
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 8: point earlier, these are Republican donors. There are a lot

815
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 8: more of them. There was a story recently in the

816
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 8: Wall Street Journal about how manche Wall Street guys are

817
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 8: really into this. I mean, they love the idea of

818
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 8: a nonpartisan or a bipartisan ticket. It's all blowney, but

819
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 8: it is selling well in the donor class.

820
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 2: Right with Republican donors. Largely Republican donors, right.

821
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 8: I mean, clearly, if you are a Biden donor, this

822
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 8: will not appeal to you. If you're a core Trump supporter,

823
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 8: there's probably more direct ways of helping Trump than this

824
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 8: that would be kind of a double bank shot. For

825
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,959
Speaker 8: the most part, these donors, I think, believe in good

826
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 8: faith that this is actually a thing that could work,

827
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 8: that these guys could actually win the election, despite the

828
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 8: fact that no one has ever come close to doing that.

829
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 8: The person who got the closest was Teddy Roosevelt. He

830
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 8: is carved into Mount Rushmore.

831
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 2: He couldn't do it.

832
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 8: The left office is one of the most popular president's

833
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 8: of American history. Four years later, tried to run as

834
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 8: a third party candidate and got smoked. But the way

835
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 8: was a spoiler, and you know, at the time, the

836
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 8: Republicans were the good guys, and he served as a

837
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 8: spoiler and the Democrat one. So yeah, that the idea

838
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 8: they could win is absurd. No one has won a

839
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 8: single electoral vote as a third party candidate. Since nineteen

840
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 8: sixty eight when George Wallace did it by appealing to racists. So,

841
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 8: you know, not going to happen. But somehow, people, for

842
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 8: the most part, on Wall Street have convinced themselves that

843
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 8: this time is different, which is a thing you probably

844
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 8: shouldn't convince yourself of on Wall Street because we know

845
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,839
Speaker 8: how that goes. You know, they're kind of credulously behind it.

846
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure you saw that yesterday what's his name,

847
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: hedge fund manager was saying that Jamie Diamond should run

848
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:42,280
Speaker 1: for president.

849
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, Bill Backman, Bill Ackman, Yeah.

850
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 1: I mean, just like we're getting high on our own

851
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: supply over here, team unbelievably so.

852
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 8: I mean, Jamie Diamond seems like he's.

853
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 2: Very good at his job.

854
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 8: But what happened on Wall Street is when you become

855
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 8: that rich, think you can do any job right. You know,

856
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 8: the idea that this guy, that Jamie Diamond would be

857
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 8: a good candidate for president is ridiculous, particularly in the

858
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 8: context of a re election of an incredibly successful, very

859
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 8: moderate and bipartisan Democratic president. I mean, what we saw

860
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 8: last night in the House was this incredibly overwhelming victory

861
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 8: for Joe Biden. I do not know what the No

862
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 8: Label supporters want him to do. I mean he's doing

863
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 8: pretty much precisely what seems that they would like.

864
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is really about how handing the election to Trump.

865
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 8: We've declined to question their motives. I don't know what

866
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 8: is actually driving the people at No Labels or their donors,

867
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 8: but you're exactly right in effect, which is, if they

868
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,359
Speaker 8: do this, they will elect Trump, whether they intended or not.

869
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 1: So basically what's important now is that people write to

870
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 1: and remind yirston Cinema crew, right, Yeah.

871
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 8: I mean Mansion Cinema, Larry Hogan, but also anyone else

872
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 8: who is thinking about this, and to their own members

873
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 8: of Congress that they should make clear that this is

874
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 8: a terrible idea. Just to give you an example, the

875
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 8: Problem Solvers Caucus, which is this group of Democrats and

876
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 8: Republicans that No Labels helped form. Say what you will

877
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 8: about them, they're kind of centrist, bipartisan types, and some

878
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 8: things they've done have been great, and you know, you

879
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 8: could quipple with others, but there are a bunch of

880
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 8: Democrats in the Problem Solver's Caucus and none of them

881
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 8: can possibly support this because you can't be a democratic

882
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 8: collected official and think Joe Biden shouldn't be president. Many

883
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 8: of them have been clear about that, including their chair

884
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 8: Josh Koheimer said he doesn't support this. Abigail Smamburger put

885
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 8: out a flaming statement about this. But there's a bunch

886
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 8: more and whether or not folks have members of Congress

887
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 8: who are in the problem solvers, they should write to

888
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 8: their members and say be clear publicly that this a

889
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 8: bad idea exactly.

890
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:03,879
Speaker 1: And I think that's a really important point. What else

891
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: are you watching with anxiety coming into twenty four?

892
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:11,720
Speaker 8: So many things beyond this. There are two huge keys

893
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 8: to twenty twenty four. What is the economy doing and

894
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 8: how do people feel about it? And right now those

895
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 8: two things are really out of balance because if you

896
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 8: look at the data, the economy is doing extraordinarily well.

897
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 8: I mean, unemployments at a fifty year low. Black unemployment

898
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,320
Speaker 8: is the lowest it has ever been recorded. The stock

899
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,800
Speaker 8: market's doing really well. Inflation is too high, and that

900
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 8: is absolutely a thing that hurts. But it does seem

901
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 8: that people are reacting more grumpily to the economy than

902
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 8: might be warranted, and that's going to matter. That will

903
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:49,479
Speaker 8: really drive decisions about who they vote for. So one

904
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 8: thing is how's the economy doing and how are the

905
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 8: people feeling about it? And then you know, the second

906
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 8: thing is if Trump is their nominee, can we turn

907
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 8: this into a choice and not a reference to mon Biden?

908
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 8: And I think we can as long as it's head

909
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:05,800
Speaker 8: to head. If it's a three way race, it's much tougher.

910
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, and that is really scary. What do you

911
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 1: think is going to happen in Arizona with the Senate race?

912
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,359
Speaker 8: No Labels comes into play here in an interesting way

913
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 8: as well, because they have qualified for the ballot in

914
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 8: Arizona and there are ballot lines available to folks running

915
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 8: for other offices. So it is conceivable that Cinema could

916
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 8: run as a no labels candidate for Senate against Gego

917
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 8: and then whoever the Republicans nominee. It's pretty unlikely that

918
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 8: she will even contest the Democratic nomination because there's almost

919
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,399
Speaker 8: no way she could win. And then, you know, three

920
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 8: way races are very very difficult, particularly if two of

921
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 8: them are identified as basically Democrats. So it's a little

922
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 8: nerve wracking there. I don't see a path forward yet,

923
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 8: but you never know. I mean, Lisa Murkowski won a

924
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 8: writing campaign for Senate Alaska, so anything's possible, right.

925
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 2: I find it hard to bet against Reuben Diego.

926
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 8: She's a very dynamic guy and he's got a lot

927
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 8: of core supporters, and it will be very interesting to

928
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 8: see how he does on this stage. I mean, he

929
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:13,839
Speaker 8: he was a very effective candidate for House, so we

930
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:14,800
Speaker 8: are hoping for the best.

931
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Thank you so much. This was really interesting.

932
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 2: I hope you'll come back anytime.

933
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 8: Happy to be here.

934
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 5: No moment O.

935
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 2: Fuck Jess he Cannon.

936
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 9: Molly jung Fast, that Roger Stone. He got a little

937
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 9: too close to the Trump world, and he did what

938
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:36,839
Speaker 9: they all do, which is they say the thing they're

939
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 9: not supposed to say. Why don't we listen to what

940
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 9: he said?

941
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 5: I want to talk to you about Donald Trump. Someone

942
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 5: who is a force of nature in himself, someone who

943
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 5: marches to his own drummer, someone who is not handled,

944
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 5: not managed control, A man who cannot be bossed and

945
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 5: cannot be bought, which has made him one of the

946
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 5: greatest presidents since Abraham Lincoln. I have a forty year

947
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 5: record of being able to convince the big man to

948
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 5: do It's in his best interest. He's not easy to

949
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 5: deal with. It's complicated. He resents any implication that he

950
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 5: has handled or managed or directed. You have to say,

951
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 5: remember that night we were in Buffalo and you gave

952
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 5: that speech, and it had to be ten thousand people,

953
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 5: their biggest crowd they'd ever seen, and you said X,

954
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 5: Y and Z. The place went crazy. Remember that. I

955
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 5: don't know where you came up with that line, but

956
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 5: it's one of the best things you've read. Yeah, Like,

957
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 5: I'm gonna use that one again. It doesn't fucking matter

958
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 5: that he never said, it doesn't matter. It's time consuming,

959
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,240
Speaker 5: but it works. I did it for thirty years.

960
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,799
Speaker 1: Roger Stone saying that no one can control Trump and

961
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 1: then minutes later talking about how he controls Trump.

962
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 2: That is our moment of Fuckeray.

963
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

964
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds

965
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

966
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend

967
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.