WEBVTT - Classic Music Saved Me with Samora Pinderhughes 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:01.360 Music Saved Me. 0:00:01.520 --> 0:00:05.040 How can I look at music through conversation, through the 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.280 music of just somebody talking regular and just how they 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:12.200 would and what does that reveal about the relationships to 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:16.079 these very difficult things that they've gone through as a 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:19.759 result of societal oppression and the prison industrial complex and 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:20.480 all these things. 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:24.200 I'm Lynn Hoffman and welcome to the Music Saved Me Podcast, 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:27.280 the show where we dig deep into the impactful stories 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:30.640 about the power of music. Please follow us and share 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:32.800 with your friends if you don't mind, and thank you 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:39.000 for that. On this episode, Emmy Award winning composer, lyricist, vocalist, filmmaker, 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:42.400 social political activist, and scholar who, by the way, is 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:47.120 working on his PhD. Just your typical underachiever, Soamora Pinther 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:50.440 Hughes discusses his new work and his views on the 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:54.200 force of nature as we know as music Sommora. Welcome 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:56.320 to Music Saved Me. It's so nice to have you here. 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:58.240 Thank you so much. It's an honor to be on 0:00:58.760 --> 0:00:59.360 the program. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:01.240 It's very fun. 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.759 And interestingly enough, my sister or brother program is called 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:07.200 taking a Walk with Buzz Night, which you are doing 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:09.920 while we're talking right now. I'd like to let the 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:14.600 listeners know it's a beautiful day in October. So we 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:16.800 couldn't keep him from just sitting in a studio. You 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:18.000 had to you had to go walk about. 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:22.720 Yes, indeed, yeah, you know, this is my mental health practice. 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:23.240 And it's a good one. 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:27.880 You have such a unique musical background, starting off as 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:31.360 a jazz pianist studying at the renowned Juilliard. Can you 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:35.240 tell us how and when you first became attached to music. 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:39.240 Yeah, I've been playing my whole life. I actually started 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:42.840 at age two, and I was in preschool. Wow, and 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:47.199 I had somebody came to a musician named Jacqueline Rago. 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:51.000 She became. She came to preschool and was like going 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.680 around to all the people, all the kids, you know, 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:59.480 playing some pieces. And I was just following her around 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:03.840 like the whole school. And so after that day she 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:07.200 went to my parents and was like, your kid wouldn't 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:09.799 leave me alone. So clearly he's into this music thing. 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.200 And she was my first teacher. She really, you know, 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:16.600 took me under her wing and kind of just brought 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:19.360 me into the community of the music that she was 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.680 a part of, which was venezuela and traditional music. That's 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:25.880 what I started playing, and then I went to keeping music, 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:28.680 then the jazz, and then I was I was kind 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:30.400 of off and running by then, and I never stopped. 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:34.079 So it's been, you know, the longest relationship I've ever 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:36.880 had in my life, besides you know, with my parents, 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:42.799 and you know, just something that I don't even really 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:45.680 I've never experienced life without it. 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:51.239 Your project, The Healing Project, explores themes of incarceration and 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:55.080 violence and policing. What was the inspiration that caused you 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.920 to want to tackle all of these sort of difficult 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:00.760 issues and subjects true music. 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:08.160 I always, you know, kind of had a desire to 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:11.200 use music and art to you know, speak to the 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:14.000 things that matter to me and in the society. And 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:17.760 the artists that always inspired me the most were those 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:21.960 kind of artists. And I also, I have always been 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:25.000 interested in language, even though I started it off with 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.799 the drums and the piano, and I wasn't a vocalist 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:30.680 till much later, but I was always still very interested 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:34.320 in language and the music of language and sound, which 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:37.200 is a strange kind of I guess entry point into 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:40.040 language because a lot of people don't think about sound 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:44.640 when they think about speaking, which is which is interesting 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:47.200 to me, but we just never talk about it. So yeah, 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:51.720 for me, I just always thought that, you know, kind 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:56.200 of investigating all types of things through the music of 0:03:56.280 --> 0:04:00.600 language is almost like an entryway into the soul for people. 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.200 And so obviously, you know, one way that I like 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:06.840 to do that is through writing lyrics and making songs 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.720 with lyrics in them. But the Healing Project for me 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:13.400 was kind of an investigation into how can I look 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:17.440 at music through conversation, through the music of just somebody 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.960 talking regular just how they would and what does that 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:25.600 reveal about their relationships to these very difficult things that 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:29.160 they've gone through as a result of societal oppression and 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:33.080 the prison industrial complex and all these things. And I 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:35.599 was super inspired to do that project by one of 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.800 my mentors, and Adiger Smith, who's a playwright but she 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:42.360 thinks a lot about the music of language and has 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:46.200 developed this whole, you know, method that's very famous at 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:50.280 this point that's around how she does interview based work 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.080 and she thinks a lot about music and that work. 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:57.000 So when I started to kind of be her mentee, 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.680 she would just talk to me all the time out 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.520 that method, and it's just really inspired me so much. 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.800 So I kind of just decided to try my own 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:09.919 spin on that with her blessing. And you know, I 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:12.920 always wanted to make something that was about the subject 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:15.839 of abolition because I have a lot of close friends 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:19.120 growing up that have been through the prison system, that 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:22.479 have dealt with structural violence and whose lives have been 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:26.960 very affected and kind of traumatized by the violent systems 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:30.480 that you know, are a part of the United States, 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:33.720 and so I just really wanted to use the lens 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.840 of music and language to try to reach people who 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:42.800 maybe don't have you know, family members or friends who 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:44.760 have been affected in that way, to try to reach 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:48.760 them and have them understand the depth and complexity of 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:52.919 that experience, because I think part of what that system 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:54.880 does is it creates a lot of distance. You know, 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:59.719 if you observe, you know, things like for instance, in prison, 0:05:59.880 --> 0:06:01.920 is is never in the center of the city. It's 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:05.839 always in the outskirts or upstate. And that's the reason 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:08.400 for that is distance. You don't have to see what's 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:11.440 really you know, what people are really going through, and 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.000 so it's much easier to kind of just like put 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:16.719 them throw them away to the marginess society and not 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:19.560 I how to deal with it. And so my hope 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:22.600 with this project is that through this universal music of 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:27.440 language that we can kind of capsize that distance. 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:30.520 Well so beautifully put. 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:34.200 And I'm a voiceover for my day job, I do 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:37.240 voice work, and so I'm very interested in what you're 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:41.039 speaking about. And also I listened to quite a bit 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:44.360 of the Healing Project and it is epic, And I say, 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:46.720 you don't box yourself in with just America. 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:48.240 I mean, it's a. 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:53.560 Message that could resonate globally, really and it's really unique 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:54.839 and it pulls you in. 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:57.480 It's not like anything I've ever heard before. 0:06:57.839 --> 0:06:59.880 Thank you. That's a high compliment. I mean, that's some 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.600 thing I also always try to do in my work. 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:06.160 And you know, with humility understanding that I don't really 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.440 think there's anything all the way one hundred percent original. 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:11.480 You know, we all pull some so many sources, and 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:14.880 I think it's important to cite all the sources in 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:19.320 cite all the influences that create us and create art. 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:21.800 But at the same time, I'm always am striving for 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:25.680 that that originality or that uniqueness of Okay, this is 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:30.200 something that I haven't quite heard anything like that, And 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.480 in my jolt you know, the listener in a different 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:35.680 new way. So yeah, I appreciate that so much. And 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:39.000 I think you're right also about you know, the global look. 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:40.840 I mean, all the people that are part of the 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:43.720 project are based in the US, and so we've only 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:46.640 really like presented the work here so far. But I 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:50.840 really do hope that it reaches that global audience because 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.800 I think you're right, these these issues are totally happening 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:55.600 around the world in a lot of different ways, and 0:07:56.080 --> 0:08:00.160 people are also affected in very universal ways by you know, 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:05.200 things like grief and loss and you know, depression, anxiety, 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:09.400 the trauma from you know, violences of many different kinds. 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:11.800 So I think that even if people haven't been through 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:16.800 these specific systemic experiences that are a focus of the project, 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.080 I think there's things that they're going to connect to 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:21.760 and say, wow, I know I've been through this, or 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:23.920 I know my brother or my you know sister, my 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:27.360 mom who has been through this. Well. 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:31.400 You've collaborated with many renowned artists like Herbie Hancock, for example, 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:34.600 one of my faves. How did that experience shape your 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:38.400 approach to music and activism combining the two? 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:41.560 Yeah, I mean Herbie is my hero, you know, He's 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:45.120 the reason that I started playing piano. You know, I 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:47.120 was like, I was a drummer, and then I heard 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:50.800 heard Herbie play on Miles' records. You know, my teacher, 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:54.199 Geechee Tailor, he gave me all these albums of that 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:57.560 Miles Quintet and I was just like, oh, this is 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:00.880 the sounding that I'm looking for. So, you know, he's 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.400 always been my hero. And I met him actually through 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:07.160 my sister, who's like another just another genius musician. 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:10.720 And she's she's worked with him family. 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:12.920 Yeah. Yeah, my sister is like the best musician in 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:17.640 the family, to be honest, She's a genius. So she 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:20.800 has toured with him for a few years now, and 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:23.839 so I met him through her and worked on some 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.560 pieces with him. And I think what I just learned 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:30.840 the most from Herbie is like his boundless curiosity and playfulness, 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:34.120 like he is even still now, as you know, one 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.199 of the greatest of all time. And also he's you 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.280 know up there in age, but his energy is is 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:42.560 like twenty times even me when I was in the room, 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:46.640 because he's always following ideas. He's getting new equipment, he's 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:50.480 trying out new, new different you know, keyboards, and technologies 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:56.080 and sounds, and he just always stays curious. He's always 0:09:56.120 --> 0:10:00.880 looking for more ways to be inspired, and you know, 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:04.640 he's never his attitude is never well, you know, I 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.559 know all that there is no anything like that because 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:09.520 you can't you can never know as much as there 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:13.640 is a Nobile music. And so, you know, that was 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:15.800 just so inspiring to be around, to say, like, this 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:20.360 is somebody who you know is to me like the 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.400 greatest living pianist or you know, one of the grades 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:28.000 living pianists, and he's still so curious and still always 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:29.480 trying to find new ways to play. 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:34.920 Staying hungry is a good thing. Definitely, definitely, and your 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.840 music helps. I would imagine a lot of people who 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:41.760 well I'm going to guess this, but I'm sure you 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:47.080 would agree that we're going through challenging times and needed 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:52.200 that that inspiration. So it's it's I'm curious how music 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:55.520 played a role in personal healing for you in your 0:10:55.600 --> 0:11:00.400 journey in life. Was there a specific thing that you realized, Wow, 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:05.959 music really played this role in me getting healthy? 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:09.440 Yeah, I mean, I think what I have learned about 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:13.320 music is that, in a strange, mysterious way, it tends 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:17.120 to know things before I can articulate them, and so 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:20.920 it's almost given me language throughout the years for what 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.400 I've been going through. I don't necessarily think that it 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.160 does the healing for me, and I actually think I've 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:30.520 learned to make that distinction in an important way because 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:33.560 as a performer, you know, you give a lot and 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:35.600 the music that you make is supposed to be a gift. 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:38.480 It's not for me, it's for the listener. And so 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:43.160 you know, I think the exchange around that. As a 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:47.280 young musician, you can believe that, well, you know, I'm 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:49.280 pouring all of myself into this music, and it is 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:52.800 a very cathartic process and you learn so much about yourself, 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:56.439 so you can mistake that for that learning for the 0:11:56.480 --> 0:12:00.320 healing process itself. But what I've learned is that the 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:02.720 art gives me language, and then I have to go 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:05.720 out and find the tools that I need to actually 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:08.360 do the healing, you know, And that's where you know, 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:12.760 therapy comes in and different forms of healing practice and 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:17.360 community support, you know, and just like engagement with myself, 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.920 I think that's where the healing for me comes in. 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:23.520 But the creative practice is a part of that, and 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:25.439 I think the part that it is is number one, 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:29.079 just having the freedom of expression, like knowing that at 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:32.760 any time I have this outlet, which is, you know, 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:38.880 such a special opportunity to you know, just put down 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:42.679 and connect to whatever I'm feeling and dealing with and 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:45.280 give all this kind of dimension to it. And I 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:47.120 think also, like I said, the other part is that 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:50.440 if I'm stuck on something, like I know I'm going 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.559 through something but I can't really understand what it is, 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.200 if I will know about it just through making work 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:00.000 around it, I will understand it. And it's been really 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.120 strange and in a funny way to like go back 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.839 to some of the songs that I've written and be like, wow, 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:10.000 this song. Knew that I was going through this before 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:13.439 I could make sense of it, and like the language 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:18.120 that's in the material it allowed me to get like 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.080 to figure out, oh, this is what I'm you know, 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:24.280 dealing with. So I think that's something really special. And 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:27.760 then obviously on the listener side, like you said, hopefully 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:30.920 the listener can feel reflected in the music, and I've 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.640 certainly experienced that as a listener where a lot of 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:38.400 music I've I've heard, I'm like, again, it gives voice 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:40.800 to to what you're going through. So, oh, that's what 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:41.480 it is, you know. 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.920 So I think that's give me an example of of 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.240 of a song or an artist that you would hear 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:48.880 that would make you feel. 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:52.679 That's a really good question. That's a really good question. 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:55.320 That's a good question. 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.280 Do you put different music on depending on your food 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:02.160 or something you may be dealing with? 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:05.240 You have to figure out, Yeah, yeah, I do. 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:08.280 I mean I think off the top of my head. 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:13.199 You know, it's hard to remember an exact time because 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.040 I haven't had like an immediate experience of that in 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:20.560 a little bit. But there's so many different, you know, 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:23.600 contexts in which I can say that that has happened 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:25.960 to me. But I probably have to follow with you 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:28.239 another because I don't have any when that comes to Mindy. 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.160 That's okay, we can we can go back to that one. 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.480 Yeah, no, but you're you know, your work often combines 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:37.200 music with other art forms like film and poetry, And 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:39.880 how do you see these different mediums that you're putting 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:41.440 together complement each other. 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.480 I think they kind of just go together very naturally. 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:52.040 For me, Like I already always thought of music as 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:55.840 film scenes. I didn't do that intentionally, but as I write, 0:14:56.000 --> 0:15:00.440 oh how interesting, particularly with lyrics like I just that's 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:02.480 I just see it in my head like a song. 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:05.840 For me, I see it as like a scene, and 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:10.560 that's how I am able to develop the characters in 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:13.080 the song and things like that. Even if it's something 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.280 that is based off of something I've been through, it's 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:20.960 still it is a process of like seeing a scene 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:22.400 in my head to be able to write the song. 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:25.520 And so even before I was making movies, you know, 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.680 short films and things like that, I would always see 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:32.360 the scenes in my head from just writing music, and 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:36.360 so it was the extension to just actually making films 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:39.560 was more of a technical one than it was kind 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:43.960 of a shift in imagination. And that just came number 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:47.360 one with you know, getting very inspired and trying to 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:49.240 kind of do a lot of informal study because I 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:51.720 didn't go to school for that, but I just you know, 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:53.720 I went to YouTube school like a lot of people, 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:57.960 and then also just watched a lot of films. And 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.960 then the rest comes through collaboration, which has just been 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:04.120 the other blessing in my life, which I think is 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:07.880 the case for all artists, is you know, just finding 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:10.960 the right collaborators. For me, that was just this kind 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:15.440 of collective of filmmakers that I was lucky enough to 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:19.160 be a part of, kind of like building around. And 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:22.840 Christian Padrone is kind of like my main, my main guy, 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:25.040 like co director. We make all the films together, but 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:28.040 there's kind of a loose collective of each other that 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:31.600 we make things together and inspire each other. We call 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:37.560 it risk. It's you know, Christian Anyway, Neutron, Cassim Morris 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:40.800 and On Salvagi to Show See and so you know, 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:45.120 we're always kind of like bouncing inspiration off each other, 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:50.560 making things, supporting each other's work. And they're all high 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:53.760 level filmmakers, and you know, I'm kind of like the 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:57.640 person coming in from the music side. But I think 0:16:57.680 --> 0:16:59.720 that allows me to see everything in a different you know. 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:05.879 And so I think collaborati were collaboratively, we're able to 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:09.639 create things that would you know, are very different than 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:14.360 the normal perspective and apply I guess I would say 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:17.080 sonic principles to the visual medium. 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:17.919 Ooh, I like that. 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:21.280 So I think that that gives me, I think, a 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.960 different dimension to how I approach the film work that 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:25.520 I think. 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.239 Well, it's always exciting when you get to meet and 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.760 talk to someone who's sort of breaking down barriers, or 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.960 maybe not so much barriers, but creating things that haven't 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.479 been created, which is in a world that we live 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:40.760 in today, it's getting. 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:41.600 Rarer and rarer. 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.000 I think, although there's so many out there, it's just 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:46.960 harder to find because there's so many. 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:50.280 I agree, and not as a I mean, I guess 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:52.679 it's technically is a critique, but I don't mean it 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:54.960 in a harsh way. But I just think that there's 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:57.280 a lot of pressure on artists these days to do 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:00.879 things that they see working, you know, and so that 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:06.920 produces a lot of similar work because people are like, oh, 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:11.760 people get this, and they get it quickly, and you know, 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:15.480 it's it's it's a populated and hard world inside of 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:19.320 like the industries of art, and so I think that 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:25.600 people are incentivized to, yeah, just like make kind of 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.280 carbon copies of what already exists, but maybe with a 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.159 different spin. But I just don't think that that lasts 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:33.639 the tests of time, you know, And I don't I 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:36.680 wouldn't say that. I I'm not the judge of whether 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:41.240 obviously my work will do that, but I will say 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:43.919 that that is the attempt, you know. Like again, all 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:47.480 the artists that I admire the most, like, that's what 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:49.159 their work does, so I have to try. 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:50.960 I love that. 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:55.600 And do you feel as though by doing something for yourself, 0:18:56.119 --> 0:19:00.359 regardless of that it's different that it's for you, takes 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.399 a little bit of the pressure off for others. In 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:07.280 other words, you know, you're not making it to be successful, 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:08.760 You're making it to help. 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:12.880 Yeah, I mean my hero is James Baldwins. I learned 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:15.520 a lot from just reading his work, and he has 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:19.600 all these wonderful essays about the role and responsibility of 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:21.800 the artists, and I think he makes it very clear 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:25.320 that the role and responsibility of the artist is to 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:28.680 be of service. You know, it's service work, and it's 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:32.760 spiritual and creative and emotional service work. And so as 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:38.600 a result, you know, the expectation that you will receive 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:43.600 the fruits of that service immediately is not That's not 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:45.919 part of the job description. And obviously, you know, we 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.960 have to understand, just like everybody else, that we have 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.639 to materially be able to engage with life. And so 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:56.000 you know, artists deserve all the security and the you know, 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:58.560 a lot there should be a lot that artists have 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:02.080 from a quality of life perspective that you know, we 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:05.760 have to really fight very hard to get and that 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:11.120 people don't really understand like that we you know, don't 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:15.800 have the we don't have the infrastructures that we deserve 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:18.600 to have based on the service that we play in society. 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:22.240 But at the same time, you know, as far as 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.480 what the creative work is supposed to do, I think 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.040 for me it's it's it's a matter of trust, I 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:32.320 guess in the sense that my hope is if I 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:37.400 follow that creative process and appear an honest way, and 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:42.920 I do it without you know, the the ego and 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:47.080 the interruptions of well, what is going to work and 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:49.159 what's not going to work, but more just what it 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.040 is supposed to be made, then you know you trust 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:55.800 that that will carry you to the ears and the 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:57.320 hearts of the people that need. 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:02.000 What do you think it is about music that is 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:06.959 so healing? Is it the words? Is it the the chorus? 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:11.320 Is it the instruments, vibration? Some people have said, do 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:14.119 you have a specific idea or thought of what it 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:17.080 is that is so healing with music? 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:19.320 That's a really good question, and you know, I feel 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:21.760 like I always wanted to do more research on that, 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:24.119 and I'm sure there's people that could speak to like 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:30.000 the actual physical and scientific and spiritual properties of what 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:33.520 music does, and like certainly like physically to the body, 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:38.080 you know, And I think I certainly experienced that with 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:40.840 live performance. I think that's why I really still believe, 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:45.280 even in the digital and technological age, and the power 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:49.840 of live performance, it's not just because of the you know, 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:54.440 musical you know, and collective energy, which is very important, 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:58.119 but it's also because of literally like how the sound 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.960 changes the physical space, and how the effects of that 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:05.240 sound in that physical space, and how it charges their 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:08.399 bodies and their minds and their spirits. So that really 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:11.600 means a lot to me, and I think, you know, 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:15.000 I receive a lot from life science with that exchange. 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:18.240 But I think in general, I think it's just it 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:20.720 can do so many things. But I think one big 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:25.320 part of it emotionally is just how personal it can be. 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:28.280 I think that's something that with regards to all the 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:31.240 with regards to all the different artistic disciplines, you know, 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:34.639 they all do very different important healing work and all 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:36.480 different types of work, and it's just healing work. But 0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:39.320