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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey Daron, Welcome back to the Book of Joe Podcasts

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Speaker 1: with me, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and Joe. We

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Speaker 1: are in the final days of the twenty twenty five

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Speaker 1: Major League Baseball regular season, and I gotta tell you,

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Speaker 1: this is an all time MVP race that we're talking

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Speaker 1: about here. I know we've talked about this a lot.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people have because it's been so fascinating,

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Speaker 1: but it just got a lot more interesting to me.

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Speaker 1: Put it this way, Joe, someone is not going to

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Speaker 1: win the MVP, either a catcher who hit sixty home

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Speaker 1: runs or an outfielder who hits fifty home runs and

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Speaker 1: wins a batting title. As we get to these final days, Joe,

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Speaker 1: where are you on the Great American League MVP debate?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean when you talk about stuff that Judge

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Speaker 2: has done, because I watched the Yankees, all you hear

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Speaker 2: a lot of compcerre. He's caught Ruth for this, or

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Speaker 2: you know, all the glorious Yankee names of the past,

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Speaker 2: He's caught them. He's fifty plus home runs, all the

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Speaker 2: different things he's done on an annual basis, and now

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Speaker 2: you're talking about a batting title, almost a triple crown.

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Speaker 2: And then on the other side, the other guy is

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Speaker 2: camp To. He's just past Mickey Mantle. Now he's up

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Speaker 2: there with Through He's going to catch Maris maybe, and

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Speaker 2: then on and on. So at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: I think always the most glorious record among hitters has

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Speaker 2: always been the home run title. And to be in

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Speaker 2: such glorified air as that of Ruth and Maris.

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Speaker 3: Again ties to the Yankees.

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Speaker 2: I see, it's really difficult walking away from Raleigh right now.

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Speaker 2: On top of the fact that the position that he

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Speaker 2: plays too with Judge has been out a little bit defensively,

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Speaker 2: although his numbers are fabulous and he is that valuable

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Speaker 2: to that team winning and getting to the postseason again.

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Speaker 2: But the fact that Raley kind of been so south

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Speaker 2: a little bit post All Star Break. I thought that

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Speaker 2: the participation in the home run derby may have pushed

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Speaker 2: him back a little bit, but nevertheless, he's regained his momentum.

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Speaker 2: And I watched the home runs last night more recently,

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Speaker 2: and the bat speed is absolutely still there. It's incredible,

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Speaker 2: as bad speed always astounds me. You watch Judge at

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Speaker 2: a home run. It's like this nice, smooth, strong ball

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Speaker 2: hits that part of bat ball goes on the ballpark, rawy,

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Speaker 2: same thing. However, the bat speed just to the eyeball

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Speaker 2: looks incredible and it's probably the same if you put

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Speaker 2: it on some kind of measuring device. Anyway, long story short,

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Speaker 2: I'm voting for Ralely.

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Speaker 1: Even if he doesn't hit sixty two. Sixty is enough

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Speaker 1: for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely it is. I still, you know, I still

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Speaker 2: like the end of the benchmark. I don't even like

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Speaker 2: how many games is this now that he's played? Is

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Speaker 2: it the does it pass the number? It's like, how

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Speaker 2: many games are the of the Mariners plays?

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Speaker 3: Fifty six?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we got what four games left here?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's after the one to fifty four season

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Speaker 2: of Ruth. Nevertheless, I am that impressed. Yes, I'm that impressed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. I think sixty two he wins it.

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Speaker 1: And this is going to sound crazy because people are

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Speaker 1: going to say, well, that's the difference between sixty and

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Speaker 1: sixty two. Well, sixty two is the record. And it

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Speaker 1: reminds me of Miguel Cabrera and Mike trout Right. Miguel

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Speaker 1: Cabrera wins. The Triple Crown. Trout had the better overall numbers,

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Speaker 1: but it was historic, obviously, the Triple Crown and a

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Speaker 1: narrative associated with that, and it actually turned out not

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Speaker 1: that close.

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Speaker 3: That year.

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Speaker 1: Miguel Cabrera had twenty two. I think of the twenty

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Speaker 1: eight first place votes, or all but eight of them,

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Speaker 1: say twenty two. I think it was twenty two and eight. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't that close, and people were thinking to be

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Speaker 1: neck and neck. I think if Ralegh gets the sixty two,

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Speaker 1: I think he wins. I think here at sixty or

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Speaker 1: even sixty one, I think it's Judge. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: know that sounds crazy, don't get me wrong, but it's

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Speaker 1: hard to walk away from what Judge has done. The

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Speaker 1: fifty home runs plus a batting title has been done

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Speaker 1: only by Jimmy Fox and Mickey Mantle. And when you

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Speaker 1: look at ops, Aaron Judge way ahead eleven thirty six

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Speaker 1: to nine to fifty nine for Raleigh, and you're like,

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Speaker 1: wait a second. Raley hits in a tougher ballpark to

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Speaker 1: hit the Yankee Stadium out there in Seattle. So if

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Speaker 1: you go buy OPS plus, which factors in how the

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Speaker 1: park plays and everything around the league. Judge has a

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Speaker 1: huge advantage two thirteen to one seventy two, so the

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Speaker 1: offensive number is actually not that close other than the

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Speaker 1: home runs and RBIs. I'm not saying the vote's not close.

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Speaker 1: I'm saying slight edged, Judge, but I think it can tip.

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Speaker 1: And again I recognize that this sounds crazy, but a

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Speaker 1: record is a record, and as you mentioned, Joe, it's

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Speaker 1: one of the all time most important records in all sports.

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Speaker 1: Actually the home run record, the American League Red record

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Speaker 1: in this case, and for a catcher to do it,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how you deny Riley at that point.

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Speaker 1: So you know, listen, last year Bobby wit Junior had

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Speaker 1: one of the greatest years ever by a shortstop and

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Speaker 1: could not win the MVP because of Eron's Judge, somebody's

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Speaker 1: going to go home unhappy here deserving the MVP. It's

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Speaker 1: just how it is. They picked the same year to

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Speaker 1: have historic seasons. But right now, this would be my

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Speaker 1: guess on how the vote turns out. I think right

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Speaker 1: now is Judge, but Raley has really closed the gap

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Speaker 1: and still can win it.

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Speaker 2: Me ask you this regarding like a judge's ops, how

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Speaker 2: many intentional walks has he received this year compared to.

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Speaker 1: Roll well a lot more. Yeah. I mean we saw

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Speaker 1: it the other day where playing the White Sox. That

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Speaker 1: night the Yankees clinched the division, he was walked intentionally

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Speaker 1: as the winning run in the ninth inning, and we

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Speaker 1: all knew it was the exact proper thing to do, right,

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Speaker 1: and guess what, he scored the winning run, but you

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Speaker 1: had to put them on base. He's that good.

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Speaker 2: So again, if you subtracted Judge's intentional walks, which.

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Speaker 1: Which is thirty four by the way, thirty four leads

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Speaker 1: the league.

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Speaker 3: And then how many does Rawley have?

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Speaker 2: Do we have any idea on that? You probably have

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Speaker 2: an idea on that one. I'm just just curious. If

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Speaker 2: you take those numbers away, then does that push the

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Speaker 2: ops down to like more comparable numbers or he's still

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Speaker 2: out of control?

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Speaker 1: He has about half, He's got sixteen.

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Speaker 2: That's still okay. But nevertheless, I'm just saying that the

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Speaker 2: kind of treatment that Judge is received, I think has

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Speaker 2: exceeded what Rawley's received. And just during the course of

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Speaker 2: the season, who's ever hitting behind Raleigh? I haven't watched

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Speaker 2: that one as closely, but I don't even know if

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Speaker 2: it's more intimidating behind Rally than it's been behind Judge

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Speaker 2: or not. Just meaning like, even if you don't intentionally

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Speaker 2: walk Judge, you unintentionally intentionally walk Judge. So I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm just saying some of that Ops may be bloated

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Speaker 2: a little bit based on pitching around him and just

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Speaker 2: the here we go four fingers from the dugout, which

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent agree with. I would have done the

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Speaker 2: same thing that that Will did the other night, one

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Speaker 2: hundred percent, But I just say it it could maybe

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Speaker 2: just been a little bit tamer in regards to the

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Speaker 2: disparity between that particular number.

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Speaker 1: Let me give you Aaron Judges September, all right, Yank,

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Speaker 1: he's fighting for a division title, three p fifty eight,

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Speaker 1: betting average, five twenty six on base percentage based more

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Speaker 1: than half the time and a seven thirty one slug.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: I did dip a little bit there in August because

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Speaker 1: he had that elbow injury coming back from that. But

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Speaker 1: you know, down stretch here now, listen, I think it

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Speaker 1: comes out of this, Joe. I don't think there's any

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Speaker 1: question that Aaron Judge is the better hitter than Calra

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Speaker 1: no doubt right. If the award is not best Hitter,

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Speaker 1: there's a Hank Aaron Award, which goes to the best hitter.

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Speaker 1: Aeron Judge will win that. The question is how do

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Speaker 1: you value the MVP and cal Raley playing catcher and

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Speaker 1: putting up this incredible season. I can easily see how

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Speaker 1: the positional value here can swing it for a lot

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Speaker 1: of voters. I think it's going to be very close.

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Speaker 3: That's another point.

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Speaker 2: But the other thing, too, is just them, their personalities,

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Speaker 2: who they are. I mean, Rowley comes across really well too.

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Speaker 2: I don't know him, so I think, you know, just

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Speaker 2: on the likability factor, I think they're really like superstar worthy,

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Speaker 2: just as likable people. And then on top of that,

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Speaker 2: they're really good at baseball. I don't know how much

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Speaker 2: that may apply to some voters. I know it should not,

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Speaker 2: but it may. But from among the fan base, I

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Speaker 2: think it's even a more difficult discussion because if there

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Speaker 2: was a villain in this whole thing, it'd be easy

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Speaker 2: to push it one way or the other.

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Speaker 3: But there's not.

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Speaker 2: These are really good baseball players, good baseball, they're good people.

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Speaker 2: They're doing astonishing things this year and they're likable, they're

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Speaker 2: way up there. They're great for the sport. They're the

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Speaker 2: kind of guys you want to be recognized at the

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Speaker 2: end of the year based on their performance, just because

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Speaker 2: of who they are. So there's that part of it too,

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Speaker 2: comes out as a wash. I believe that they're really

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Speaker 2: wonderful people on top of everything.

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Speaker 1: Else, and I do believe Joe that this is also

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Speaker 1: a part of it in terms of Raleigh's candidacy. The

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Speaker 1: Seattle Mariners won the American League West for the first

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Speaker 1: time in twenty four years. I mean, this is historic.

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Speaker 1: This was the fourth longest drought without winning a division championship.

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Speaker 1: The Pirates have the longest, going back to ninety two.

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Speaker 1: Then you have the Marlins and the Rockies been around

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Speaker 1: since ninety three, still have not won one. You know,

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Speaker 1: a quarter of a century where Seattle had not won

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Speaker 1: the division title, and Cam rely carried them down the stretch.

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Speaker 1: Here they won fifteen of sixteen to basically blow away

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Speaker 1: the team that's owned that division, that Houston Astros, who

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Speaker 1: are free falling nine to twelve in September, losing five

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Speaker 1: in a row. But that has to be a part

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Speaker 1: of it that he led this team that really didn't

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Speaker 1: know how to close out a season, closing it out

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Speaker 1: in like historic fashion year fifteen and one, to win

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Speaker 1: your first division title in twenty four years, that's going

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Speaker 1: to count for something.

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Speaker 2: Those the less you know, the touchdown, he's Tom Brady,

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Speaker 2: you know, he marches you down the field for the

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Speaker 2: in the fourth quarter with no time on the clock.

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Speaker 2: He's Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, all those dudes that take

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Speaker 2: that last shot. Most of the time it goes in.

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Speaker 2: I mean, baseball, it's hard to be dominated by one

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Speaker 2: guy to lead necessarily because it's such It truly is

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Speaker 2: such a team sport played by individuals and individual numbers.

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Speaker 3: I get that.

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Speaker 2: But to have one guy just really sway it and

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Speaker 2: push it across the finish line not easy, not easy

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Speaker 2: to do compared to, like I said, a basketball game

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Speaker 2: or a football game. Football, if you don't have a quarterback,

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Speaker 2: you cannot win. You cannot win without that. Basketball it

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Speaker 2: almost always seems to be the really Lebron James.

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Speaker 3: More recently, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, there's that one guy that can push you over

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Speaker 2: the finish line. It's unusual in baseball that one guy

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Speaker 2: to be able to push you over the finish line

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Speaker 2: and so those those are the kind of things that

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Speaker 2: I think about also. And it's hard, like if you

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Speaker 2: were talking about to really how do you how do

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Speaker 2: you parcel this up and how do you figure this out?

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Speaker 2: But yeah, to be the guy that gets them to

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Speaker 2: that to the Promised Land for the first time in

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Speaker 2: a long time, like you're suggesting there, it's all got

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Speaker 2: to be considered.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad I'm not voting. Yeah, it's a difficult one.

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Speaker 1: And in the meantime, Joe, give me who you think

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Speaker 1: the team to beat is in the American League now,

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Speaker 1: I mean I've thought all along Seattle has been dangerous

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Speaker 1: and the way especially they're playing at home, they're a

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Speaker 1: handful and the pitching is starting to come around. We

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Speaker 1: all knew they had really good pitching. I thought they'd

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Speaker 1: underchieved a little bit, but that is starting to lock down.

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Speaker 1: This is a team that hits a ton of home runs.

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Speaker 1: Julio Rodriguez is having an all world second half. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's been terrific down this here. We know about Raleigh.

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Speaker 1: This team can beat you in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 1: but especially with power. There's a lot of power in

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Speaker 1: that cl lineup. But I look at the New York

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Speaker 1: Yankees right now, and they've got it going on. They're starting,

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Speaker 1: pitching is really good. I know there's some questions about

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Speaker 1: the bullpen. I'm not too worried about it. I think

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Speaker 1: the answers are there. And you also talk about power.

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Speaker 1: I mean, right now, they just are wearing teams out

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Speaker 1: with even their threat of power. The way teams and

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Speaker 1: pitchers just kind of work around and nibble, and the

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Speaker 1: Yankees won't chase. They've been playing some great baseball here.

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Speaker 1: I would lean towards the Yankees as my theoretical number

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Speaker 1: one seed, but Seattle's right there with them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I like Seattle.

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Speaker 2: I've liked them so since they made those acquisitions with

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Speaker 2: the team.

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Speaker 3: You got to keep it on.

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Speaker 2: Right now is Cleveland and you talk about a group

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Speaker 2: that's pitching well right now, and I know they're not

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Speaker 2: there yet, but I what they got going on. I'm

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Speaker 2: watching I'm been watching them the last two nights with

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Speaker 2: the Tigers.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is one of those This is like

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Speaker 2: I a digress a bit when I've had my conversations

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Speaker 2: with my guys before playoff games.

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Speaker 3: The look, I never wanted.

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Speaker 2: Us to get that Look this the fetus, Look this

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Speaker 2: deer in the headlight, look this like we have no

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Speaker 2: chance to look.

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Speaker 3: I mean, but it's all over the Detroit team.

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Speaker 2: When I watch them on the field in the dugout,

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Speaker 2: that's poor. I mean, it's just striking out one after another.

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Speaker 2: It's it's crazy. And then on the other side of it,

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Speaker 2: it's just like Cleveland's at that point, I'm just gonna

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Speaker 2: throw a glove out. They were going to be the

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Speaker 2: latter day Colorado Rockies from a couple of years ago

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Speaker 2: all the way to the World Series. So listen, I

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Speaker 2: really think they they're real dangerous right now, and a

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Speaker 2: lot of that has to do with they're pitching, and

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Speaker 2: they got this kind of a swarming style of offense

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Speaker 2: that I kind of like, you know, primarily a bunch

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Speaker 2: of no name kind of guys outside of Ramiers maybe.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I think Cleveland's really dangerous and I'm watching

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Speaker 2: this and on the other side of it, Detroit they're lucky,

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Speaker 2: that kind of lucky that Houston's the team that's right

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Speaker 2: there with them, because Houston right now is has the

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Speaker 2: equally the same bad vibe about them. So I don't

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Speaker 2: know how that's going to shake out right there. But

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Speaker 2: I Thinkland's gonna hold on to this win that division,

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Speaker 2: and then they become extremely dangerous because they.

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Speaker 3: Got it going on right now.

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Speaker 2: And so I don't like the Yankees as much, I

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Speaker 2: guess is what I'm saying. I think the Yankees been

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Speaker 2: more recently benefited from the Baltimore team that really doesn't

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Speaker 2: care right now, and he got the White Sox that

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Speaker 2: I think are still battling but nevertheless are really lacking.

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Speaker 2: So they got the right schedule at the right time

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Speaker 2: the Yankees have in order to ascend like they have,

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Speaker 2: whereas the Blue Jays playing the Red Sox right now

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Speaker 2: a bit more difficult so and plus day flinch their spot.

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Speaker 2: I mean that I think those two teams are really

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Speaker 2: dangerous right now, and I think they have one of

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Speaker 2: those two have the best opportunity to advance within the

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Speaker 2: American League.

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Speaker 1: A great point on Cleveland. Their pitching is unbelievable. You know,

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Speaker 1: I spoke with Stephen Vote last week. He talked about

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Speaker 1: how important it was to go to a six man

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Speaker 1: rotation down the stretch. They had a stretch of where

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Speaker 1: they played about twenty three games in twenty three days,

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Speaker 1: and they decided, you know, we need to go to

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Speaker 1: a six man rotation. And what Carl will is, the

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Speaker 1: pitching coach who does a great job did there was

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Speaker 1: he had his starters well, giving them quote unquote rest.

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Speaker 1: He actually had them throw two bullpen sessions in between starts,

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Speaker 1: and they worked on pitch shaping and mechanics. They definitely

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Speaker 1: got Tanner Bybee right in that regard. Same with Gavin Williams.

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Speaker 1: Those guys have been lights out. They've gone like eighteen

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Speaker 1: nineteen games in a row the starting pitching staff without

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Speaker 1: giving up more than two runs. I mean, that is

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Speaker 1: just crazy. But I still think, Joey, you get to

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Speaker 1: a postseason environment, you need power. You have to hit

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Speaker 1: home runs. And I love watching the style that they

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Speaker 1: play just as much as you do. But man, it's

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Speaker 1: tough to win games in the postseason without hitting home runs.

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Speaker 1: And I just think the lack of power is going

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Speaker 1: to catch up to them. But they will keep games

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Speaker 1: close and they are a fantastic defensive team. They will

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Speaker 1: not make mistakes. You are going to have to beat

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Speaker 1: the Guardians. Love watching them play, but I think against

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Speaker 1: the power that Seattle has, New York has, even Toronto has,

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Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a tough way for them

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Speaker 1: to win a series, but they are dangerous. The confidence

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Speaker 1: they're playing with right now, it's a most unbreakable love

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Speaker 1: watching that team play.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the momentum is in their favor right now.

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Speaker 2: And then something you had said earlier, I'm not as

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Speaker 2: high on the Yankee bullpen. I don't like what I'm

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Speaker 2: seeing there overall. I really would be concerned with that.

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Speaker 2: I know that Freetz pitch better more recently he's got

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Speaker 2: it back on track Hoddan, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: But I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I just I'm not seeing it. I know they hit

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Speaker 2: home runs and they have to pop.

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Speaker 3: I get all that.

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Speaker 2: But against good pitching, a good pitching staff with a

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Speaker 2: well laid out plan, I still think could put that down.

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Speaker 3: I've been part of that. You know, with the Cubs,

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Speaker 3: power can.

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Speaker 2: Go away based on great execution of pitches and a

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Speaker 2: really good staff. Like the Mets to the twenty fifteen Cubs, man,

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Speaker 2: they just shut us down.

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Speaker 3: That was it.

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Speaker 2: I saw it in two thousand and five versus the

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Speaker 2: White Sox with the Angels, where we won the first

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Speaker 2: game of that series, and then after that they won

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Speaker 2: that controversial game in Chicago on that ball in the dirt,

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Speaker 2: not in the dirt, or Prisiensky man of first base,

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Speaker 2: Doug Atting changes as calls, Eric Crawford backs him up,

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Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, we can't get into a bullpen.

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Speaker 2: After that, I mean Garland and the contourers and all

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Speaker 2: these dudes, Burley, we could not get in a bullpen.

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Speaker 2: We could not get in the bullpen, and we did

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Speaker 2: have some pops. So I don't know, I get it,

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Speaker 2: and I know what's the refrain is. But at some

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Speaker 2: point I'm looking for that to turn. And the only

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Speaker 2: way it does turn is by a team having spectacular

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Speaker 2: starting pitching or pitching in general, because you have to

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Speaker 2: have the pin too. So that's what it's going to take,

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Speaker 2: I think, to knock the home run hitting World Series

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Speaker 2: winning thrown down a notch. It's going to have to

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Speaker 2: come from mistake free baseball like you suggested, and also

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Speaker 2: a real group of starting pitching more key kind of

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Speaker 2: mashup pitching, which doesn't really exist anywhere. That's going to

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Speaker 2: be part of party is the word momentum today and

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Speaker 2: it's going to be part of the quote of the day.

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Speaker 2: But that's where I see Cleveland is having an opportunity,

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Speaker 2: and I like Seattle's pitching.

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Speaker 3: Too, I do.

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Speaker 2: I like the kid Woo up there, and of course

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Speaker 2: Castillo when he's right, and he looked really motivated last night.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot to like on.

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Speaker 1: Those Yeah, it's Cleveland also has that bullpen you're talking about, Joe.

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Speaker 1: I mentioned their starters, but I like their bullpen a

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Speaker 1: lot with a lot of different options, even without Emmanuel

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Speaker 1: class A, which is amazing when you think about it.

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Speaker 1: He had been one of the best closures in the game.

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Speaker 1: It hasn't been around here these two months. So did

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Speaker 1: you see sho Hey Otani pitch the other night in Arizona? Joe,

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Speaker 1: we need to talk about show Hey Otani, and if

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Speaker 1: you're Dave Roberts, what do you do with your rotation

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Speaker 1: heading into the playoffs. We'll do that right after this

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Speaker 1: on the Book of Joe. Welcome back to the Book

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Speaker 1: of Joe podcasts, Show Hey Otani. I'm always fascinating by him, Joe.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I hope people never get used to the

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Speaker 1: fact what he's doing is absolutely crazy. It's bunkers leading

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Speaker 1: off games and starting pitching. Watching him pitch in Arizona.

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Speaker 1: It's like they took all the guardrails off. Through ninety

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Speaker 1: one pitches he threw six innings, Joey had nine swings

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Speaker 1: and misses on his four seam fastball. I haven't seeing

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Speaker 1: sho Hey pitch off his fastball like this in a

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Speaker 1: long time. He looked that good. The nine swings and

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Speaker 1: misses on the fastball were second most in his career.

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Speaker 1: In the sixth inning, his last thinning of work, he

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Speaker 1: averaged ninety nine miles an hour. That was the hardest

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Speaker 1: of his career. He hit one oh one point two

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Speaker 1: with one of his fastballs. He's thrown four pitches this

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Speaker 1: month at one oh one or more for the first

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Speaker 1: time in his career. I mean, he looked really good.

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Speaker 1: And if you do the math, he's lined up to

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Speaker 1: have six days of rest going into wild Card Game

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Speaker 1: number one. That tells me Joe and the way he

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Speaker 1: threw the baseball on his staff with Blake Snell and

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Speaker 1: Tyler Glasnow and Yester and Noobu Yamamoto, he's the number

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Speaker 1: one starter for Dave Roberts. What do you think of that? Show?

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Speaker 3: Hey?

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Speaker 1: Starting Game one?

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Speaker 3: No doubt.

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Speaker 2: I think they've been building in this the whole time.

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Speaker 2: We talked about that when he was coming back from

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Speaker 2: his injury and how they were going to like build

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Speaker 2: him into five innings and they had the end game

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Speaker 2: in mind. They worked it from the last game of

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Speaker 2: the World Series possibly and moved it backwards. You always,

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Speaker 2: I've always been big on that. Whenever you're building a schedule, man,

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Speaker 2: you always played backwards. You never played forward. So none

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Speaker 2: of this surprises me. And the thing you just mentioned,

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Speaker 2: and this is my observation when I was with him brother,

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Speaker 2: when he has command of his fastball, heads up, because

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Speaker 2: all that other stuff becomes even more wicked. When these

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Speaker 2: guys have to honor a fastball that he's throwing where

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Speaker 2: he wants to, when he wants to. That makes everything

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Speaker 2: else exaggeratingly better.

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Speaker 3: So that's it. Because when I first saw him, he had,

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Speaker 3: you know, some he had.

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Speaker 2: His volocity was pretty good, wasn't up to where like

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Speaker 2: you said one on one point two. However, without the

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Speaker 2: command of his fastball, the other stuff didn't play as

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Speaker 2: big because hitters didn't have to respect him as much.

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Speaker 2: But when his fastball command and velocity is playing, Wow,

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00:19:59,118 --> 00:20:02,158
Speaker 2: this guy becomes he is another level. Whatever that level

436
00:20:02,238 --> 00:20:04,478
Speaker 2: is that he is, he becomes even more differ So

437
00:20:05,078 --> 00:20:08,238
Speaker 2: that's it, And yes, I would the six day is perfect,

438
00:20:08,598 --> 00:20:11,598
Speaker 2: and it does not surprise. I'm happy for him, A

439
00:20:11,638 --> 00:20:14,158
Speaker 2: big fan as a player and as a person. I

440
00:20:14,198 --> 00:20:17,038
Speaker 2: really enjoyed my time working with him. So I, as

441
00:20:17,038 --> 00:20:18,998
Speaker 2: you said, don't get used to it. Don't ever get

442
00:20:19,038 --> 00:20:21,158
Speaker 2: used to this, because this is that cool. But never

443
00:20:21,198 --> 00:20:23,558
Speaker 2: be surprised either by what he's capable of doing.

444
00:20:23,758 --> 00:20:26,038
Speaker 1: Joe, looking back on what he's done this year, he

445
00:20:26,078 --> 00:20:28,718
Speaker 1: has hit more balls one hundred miles an hour plus

446
00:20:28,918 --> 00:20:32,198
Speaker 1: than any batter in baseball, and since he got on

447
00:20:32,238 --> 00:20:34,998
Speaker 1: the mound in June, he has the third most one

448
00:20:35,038 --> 00:20:38,558
Speaker 1: hundred mile per hour pitches of any starting pitcher in baseball.

449
00:20:38,878 --> 00:20:40,078
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just crazy.

450
00:20:40,278 --> 00:20:40,438
Speaker 3: Right.

451
00:20:40,478 --> 00:20:44,118
Speaker 2: He lives, he lives at the sentry mark. Right, It's

452
00:20:44,238 --> 00:20:47,118
Speaker 2: just listen, it's you know. And I was there when

453
00:20:47,118 --> 00:20:49,198
Speaker 2: all the detractors got to choose one or the other.

454
00:20:49,878 --> 00:20:51,678
Speaker 2: He's been hurt several times with his arm. He's got

455
00:20:51,718 --> 00:20:54,518
Speaker 2: to give it up. Something's going to suffer eventually. It

456
00:20:54,558 --> 00:20:57,878
Speaker 2: will eventually he will have to probably make a choice.

457
00:20:57,878 --> 00:21:00,798
Speaker 2: And we've talked about this one more arm injury and

458
00:21:00,998 --> 00:21:03,118
Speaker 2: it's probably going to be that's it. He's an offensive

459
00:21:03,118 --> 00:21:05,838
Speaker 2: player only. But in the meantime, I know this is

460
00:21:05,838 --> 00:21:08,318
Speaker 2: what he wants. I know this is how he's motivated.

461
00:21:08,598 --> 00:21:10,598
Speaker 2: We haven't seen it before, we've talked about this. I

462
00:21:10,598 --> 00:21:13,678
Speaker 2: don't know the next time we shall. So uh, I said, enjoy,

463
00:21:13,838 --> 00:21:17,078
Speaker 2: enjoy the right, folks, because it is that good. He

464
00:21:17,198 --> 00:21:20,318
Speaker 2: is that special, it is that different. He's like, there's

465
00:21:20,358 --> 00:21:22,838
Speaker 2: the major leagues, and then there's the then there's actually

466
00:21:22,878 --> 00:21:25,478
Speaker 2: a league above that, and then there's show Hey league

467
00:21:25,558 --> 00:21:28,438
Speaker 2: above that. So he is that he's the only person

468
00:21:28,518 --> 00:21:31,598
Speaker 2: in that league. So let's just enjoy it and watch

469
00:21:31,638 --> 00:21:33,958
Speaker 2: it all the way through. Because you talk about mussy TV.

470
00:21:34,038 --> 00:21:37,078
Speaker 2: If anybody is going to be able to spike TV

471
00:21:37,238 --> 00:21:40,518
Speaker 2: ratings in our postseason, would be the Dodgers and show

472
00:21:40,518 --> 00:21:43,478
Speaker 2: Hey not only playing but pitching in a particular game,

473
00:21:43,518 --> 00:21:45,078
Speaker 2: and you know, the tune in factor is going to

474
00:21:45,118 --> 00:21:45,718
Speaker 2: be incredible.

475
00:21:46,078 --> 00:21:49,118
Speaker 1: He's gone past fifty home runs and one hundred walks

476
00:21:49,238 --> 00:21:53,358
Speaker 1: and stolen nineteen bases. Nobody in the history of baseball

477
00:21:53,598 --> 00:21:55,998
Speaker 1: has ever done that. And I know that's cherry picking

478
00:21:56,038 --> 00:21:57,678
Speaker 1: a little bit, but we're looking at things that are

479
00:21:57,958 --> 00:21:59,838
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of guys do one or the other.

480
00:22:00,078 --> 00:22:02,118
Speaker 1: You know, they run, they hit for power, they control

481
00:22:02,158 --> 00:22:05,798
Speaker 1: the strike zone. He does it all while pitching like

482
00:22:05,838 --> 00:22:10,358
Speaker 1: a Game one postseason starter. I mean, it's just absolutely crazy.

483
00:22:10,718 --> 00:22:12,558
Speaker 1: And in the meantime, Joe, I think you look at

484
00:22:12,598 --> 00:22:14,918
Speaker 1: the LA Dodgers and we'll talk about their bullpen in

485
00:22:14,958 --> 00:22:18,158
Speaker 1: a second, because that's a major issue. But as you said,

486
00:22:18,318 --> 00:22:21,078
Speaker 1: it's almost like things are working out exactly the way

487
00:22:21,118 --> 00:22:24,198
Speaker 1: they planned, backloading all the plans to make sure that

488
00:22:24,318 --> 00:22:28,238
Speaker 1: they got to October with their pitching healthy. And on point.

489
00:22:28,438 --> 00:22:30,638
Speaker 1: We just talked about Otani throwing the ball better than

490
00:22:30,678 --> 00:22:33,238
Speaker 1: he has all year. That's worked out perfectly the way

491
00:22:33,278 --> 00:22:36,398
Speaker 1: they slow played him. Blake Snell his last four starts,

492
00:22:36,438 --> 00:22:41,038
Speaker 1: he has an zero point four seven ERA, Tyler glassnew

493
00:22:41,438 --> 00:22:43,478
Speaker 1: is throwing the ball better than he has all year.

494
00:22:43,678 --> 00:22:46,638
Speaker 1: And Yashinobu Yamamoto, he's the only one who actually carried

495
00:22:46,678 --> 00:22:48,718
Speaker 1: some volume this year, getting close to one hundred and

496
00:22:48,718 --> 00:22:52,518
Speaker 1: seventy innings. He's been great. Those are four incredible options.

497
00:22:52,518 --> 00:22:55,358
Speaker 1: And then last night Clayton Kershaw pitched an inning out

498
00:22:55,398 --> 00:22:58,878
Speaker 1: of the bullpen. How about that four hundred and fifty

499
00:22:58,878 --> 00:23:01,598
Speaker 1: four career appearances. That was the fourth time he came

500
00:23:01,598 --> 00:23:03,998
Speaker 1: out of the bullpen for a regular season game. They

501
00:23:04,038 --> 00:23:06,478
Speaker 1: have an embarrassment of riches. So I don't know how

502
00:23:06,518 --> 00:23:10,638
Speaker 1: he orders his rotation for the wildcard round, but I

503
00:23:10,638 --> 00:23:13,958
Speaker 1: do believe it begins with Otani, probably Yamamoto behind him,

504
00:23:14,278 --> 00:23:16,638
Speaker 1: and then Snell. We'll see what he does, but those

505
00:23:16,638 --> 00:23:18,478
Speaker 1: are all good options. The question, Joe is, if you're

506
00:23:18,558 --> 00:23:20,438
Speaker 1: Dave Roberts, how do you end the game? Now, this

507
00:23:20,518 --> 00:23:24,118
Speaker 1: is really interesting. Roki Sasaki, he hasn't pitched in the

508
00:23:24,118 --> 00:23:27,398
Speaker 1: major league since May. It's shoulder impingement. They send him

509
00:23:27,398 --> 00:23:30,398
Speaker 1: down on rehab about a month or so ago, and

510
00:23:30,438 --> 00:23:33,478
Speaker 1: he's making his start, slowly working his way back, and

511
00:23:33,518 --> 00:23:35,558
Speaker 1: then about a week ago they said, you know what,

512
00:23:35,638 --> 00:23:38,158
Speaker 1: let's put this guy in the bullpen. He made two

513
00:23:38,198 --> 00:23:41,318
Speaker 1: appearances in the bullpen in Oklahoma City and he hit

514
00:23:41,318 --> 00:23:43,398
Speaker 1: one hundred miles an hour. They bring up to the

515
00:23:43,398 --> 00:23:46,638
Speaker 1: big leagues and here's their plan. Let's give him two

516
00:23:46,798 --> 00:23:49,438
Speaker 1: high leverage spots to pitch out of the bullpen in

517
00:23:49,478 --> 00:23:51,518
Speaker 1: a major league game. We'll start an ending clean We're

518
00:23:51,518 --> 00:23:53,118
Speaker 1: not going to drop him in at a dirty eating.

519
00:23:53,638 --> 00:23:56,038
Speaker 1: Let's see how he handles that you never know. Joe, right,

520
00:23:56,038 --> 00:23:58,118
Speaker 1: a guy, a starting pitcher. You know, how as long

521
00:23:58,198 --> 00:23:59,878
Speaker 1: does he warm up, how much time does he need?

522
00:23:59,958 --> 00:24:02,878
Speaker 1: Has he handle getting into the middle of the game. Well,

523
00:24:02,878 --> 00:24:06,638
Speaker 1: he pitched against araz O a last night and lights out,

524
00:24:06,838 --> 00:24:10,318
Speaker 1: clean inning, three batters, two strikeouts, He hit one hundred

525
00:24:10,358 --> 00:24:13,798
Speaker 1: miles an hour. He averaged ninety nine. Now his average

526
00:24:13,798 --> 00:24:16,878
Speaker 1: fastball velocity is ninety six. So yeah, like a lot

527
00:24:16,878 --> 00:24:18,438
Speaker 1: of guys, is gonna play up if you know you're

528
00:24:18,438 --> 00:24:21,478
Speaker 1: only going one inning. And his splitter, which he normally

529
00:24:21,478 --> 00:24:24,998
Speaker 1: throws eighty five, was up to eighty seven, so his

530
00:24:25,078 --> 00:24:29,478
Speaker 1: stuff definitely played up. He's gonna get one more trial here.

531
00:24:29,598 --> 00:24:32,158
Speaker 1: So to speak out of the bullpen, Joe would not

532
00:24:32,278 --> 00:24:35,718
Speaker 1: surprise me. If Roki Sasaki is the closer for the

533
00:24:35,838 --> 00:24:39,238
Speaker 1: La Dodgers in the postseason. I know this. David Roberts

534
00:24:39,358 --> 00:24:41,798
Speaker 1: is not gonna hesitate to bring him into a high

535
00:24:41,878 --> 00:24:44,518
Speaker 1: leveraged spot as long as it's a clean inning. And

536
00:24:45,398 --> 00:24:48,358
Speaker 1: they they just added another impact arm and this could

537
00:24:48,438 --> 00:24:51,798
Speaker 1: be found money for the Dodgers with Roki Sasaki. Would

538
00:24:51,878 --> 00:24:54,638
Speaker 1: you use Sasaki as your closer, a guy who's no

539
00:24:54,758 --> 00:24:57,998
Speaker 1: history of closing, but his closer's stuff in a postseason

540
00:24:58,078 --> 00:24:59,598
Speaker 1: environment was David Price.

541
00:24:59,758 --> 00:25:01,558
Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's that's not difficult.

542
00:25:01,918 --> 00:25:04,918
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, they know what they got. They know I

543
00:25:05,038 --> 00:25:07,958
Speaker 2: watched train and pitch more recently and still decent stuff,

544
00:25:07,998 --> 00:25:10,478
Speaker 2: but not what it had been. And if in fact

545
00:25:10,718 --> 00:25:12,838
Speaker 2: the biggest thing would be the health of this fellow,

546
00:25:12,878 --> 00:25:15,558
Speaker 2: would be my only concern. And if they're convinced that

547
00:25:15,638 --> 00:25:18,798
Speaker 2: he's fine, there's there'll still be like some restrictive plates

548
00:25:18,838 --> 00:25:21,198
Speaker 2: on him. There's going to make sure that they doesn't

549
00:25:21,278 --> 00:25:25,158
Speaker 2: exceed any limits. The fact with the clean inning, that's great,

550
00:25:25,198 --> 00:25:26,878
Speaker 2: but there's going to be a moment when that might

551
00:25:27,078 --> 00:25:29,798
Speaker 2: go away as it progresses more deeply into the playoffs,

552
00:25:29,838 --> 00:25:32,958
Speaker 2: if in fact he shows that he's well, because my

553
00:25:32,958 --> 00:25:34,878
Speaker 2: my biggest concern with the dirty getting would just be

554
00:25:34,958 --> 00:25:37,118
Speaker 2: like we did with Johnny Lester, the fact that he

555
00:25:37,158 --> 00:25:37,958
Speaker 2: had such a hard time.

556
00:25:37,878 --> 00:25:39,638
Speaker 3: With the running game that it may bother him.

557
00:25:39,958 --> 00:25:42,878
Speaker 2: But otherwise you just you don't really have to worry

558
00:25:42,918 --> 00:25:45,438
Speaker 2: about that as much. But yes, you still want to

559
00:25:45,478 --> 00:25:48,238
Speaker 2: get him out there clean, just let him rock and roll.

560
00:25:48,238 --> 00:25:50,998
Speaker 2: But I'd have no issues with that. My only like

561
00:25:50,998 --> 00:25:52,958
Speaker 2: I said, the only thing of the training staff doctors

562
00:25:52,958 --> 00:25:54,478
Speaker 2: would have to assure him everything's groovy.

563
00:25:54,838 --> 00:25:56,358
Speaker 3: He's fine, don't worry about it.

564
00:25:56,438 --> 00:25:59,518
Speaker 2: But even with that, there's the days resting between and

565
00:25:59,558 --> 00:26:02,278
Speaker 2: the way the schedule works off and the works out.

566
00:26:02,278 --> 00:26:04,758
Speaker 2: In the playoffs, you have so many days off that

567
00:26:04,838 --> 00:26:08,798
Speaker 2: you have built ins in regards to getting guys down

568
00:26:08,878 --> 00:26:11,518
Speaker 2: and giving the necessary time. And there's you know, there's

569
00:26:11,518 --> 00:26:14,518
Speaker 2: no guarantees you have to like safe situation, two three nights.

570
00:26:14,398 --> 00:26:14,758
Speaker 3: In a row.

571
00:26:14,918 --> 00:26:17,198
Speaker 2: So there's all the built ins too. So there's a

572
00:26:17,198 --> 00:26:19,238
Speaker 2: lot of stuff working in their favor right there. But

573
00:26:19,278 --> 00:26:21,638
Speaker 2: for me, no problem whatsoever. David Price did it and

574
00:26:21,638 --> 00:26:24,358
Speaker 2: he was really young at that time. And if it

575
00:26:24,398 --> 00:26:26,358
Speaker 2: wasn't for David raised, don't go to the World Series

576
00:26:26,358 --> 00:26:29,038
Speaker 2: that year because he came in in Game seven of

577
00:26:29,118 --> 00:26:31,678
Speaker 2: the ALCS and it was a three to one ball game,

578
00:26:31,678 --> 00:26:34,198
Speaker 2: ground ball the hockey and we're going to the World Series.

579
00:26:34,438 --> 00:26:37,518
Speaker 1: Yeah, no bigger spot than that. Here's my question for you, Joe,

580
00:26:37,518 --> 00:26:40,518
Speaker 1: as a manager, when you've got you mentioned shrine in right,

581
00:26:40,798 --> 00:26:43,318
Speaker 1: and we know how much these battled health issues, and

582
00:26:43,638 --> 00:26:46,798
Speaker 1: you've got someone like Tanner Scott. I look at those guys,

583
00:26:46,878 --> 00:26:48,878
Speaker 1: I don't see them as reliable right now. Now you

584
00:26:48,918 --> 00:26:51,278
Speaker 1: look at the back of the baseball card and you go, yeah,

585
00:26:51,478 --> 00:26:53,118
Speaker 1: I mean I want to use those guys like that's

586
00:26:53,118 --> 00:26:56,158
Speaker 1: why they're here. You know how concerning is it as

587
00:26:56,198 --> 00:26:59,478
Speaker 1: a manager and that kind of push pull between trust

588
00:26:59,878 --> 00:27:02,358
Speaker 1: and what you're looking at, because right now, when I'm

589
00:27:02,398 --> 00:27:05,758
Speaker 1: looking at Tanner Scotta, ball is not playing the way

590
00:27:05,798 --> 00:27:09,398
Speaker 1: it should and with trying to something about him not

591
00:27:09,478 --> 00:27:12,958
Speaker 1: quite the same either. I can't just to me anyway

592
00:27:13,078 --> 00:27:15,398
Speaker 1: looking at trying it and Scott. I just can't look

593
00:27:15,438 --> 00:27:17,878
Speaker 1: at them and say this is where I'm planning to

594
00:27:17,958 --> 00:27:19,878
Speaker 1: win the game late the ball is going to be

595
00:27:19,998 --> 00:27:22,718
Speaker 1: in their hands. I've got to find a different avenue

596
00:27:22,798 --> 00:27:24,958
Speaker 1: right now in a postseason environment, because, as you know,

597
00:27:25,398 --> 00:27:27,838
Speaker 1: one game can be all the difference between going home

598
00:27:28,238 --> 00:27:28,918
Speaker 1: and moving on.

599
00:27:29,358 --> 00:27:31,318
Speaker 2: I live that too, And even in the twenty sixteen

600
00:27:31,358 --> 00:27:33,798
Speaker 2: year old series where the better part of our bullpen

601
00:27:33,838 --> 00:27:37,558
Speaker 2: at that time, where the youngsters CJ. Edwards, Mike Montgomery,

602
00:27:37,718 --> 00:27:40,678
Speaker 2: they really ascended at that point, and so we relied.

603
00:27:40,718 --> 00:27:43,118
Speaker 2: I relied heavily on our role as chapman to get

604
00:27:43,198 --> 00:27:44,718
Speaker 2: us through that moment, just for the same reason as

605
00:27:44,718 --> 00:27:47,638
Speaker 2: you're suggesting right now, because you don't know. The game

606
00:27:47,638 --> 00:27:49,758
Speaker 2: can get away from you so quickly that once the

607
00:27:49,758 --> 00:27:52,478
Speaker 2: other team grabs the momentum to just pull somebody out

608
00:27:52,518 --> 00:27:54,878
Speaker 2: of the bullpen again, somebody that you really don't see

609
00:27:54,878 --> 00:27:56,878
Speaker 2: his lockdown right now, that you could really feel like

610
00:27:57,238 --> 00:28:00,838
Speaker 2: trustworthy about. It's difficult. It's difficult to even permit that

611
00:28:00,878 --> 00:28:03,358
Speaker 2: situation to blossom. That's really what it comes down to.

612
00:28:03,518 --> 00:28:07,278
Speaker 2: So I've been there also, and so it's tough. It

613
00:28:07,398 --> 00:28:10,558
Speaker 2: is very tough, and guys like Scott trying and probably

614
00:28:10,838 --> 00:28:12,198
Speaker 2: I don't even know off the top of my head

615
00:28:12,278 --> 00:28:14,558
Speaker 2: who the other alternatives are. But if you could get

616
00:28:14,598 --> 00:28:16,878
Speaker 2: those guys into the game earlier, or do you still

617
00:28:16,878 --> 00:28:17,878
Speaker 2: have to rely on them late?

618
00:28:18,318 --> 00:28:20,038
Speaker 3: Got something that they're going to have to figure out.

619
00:28:20,078 --> 00:28:24,638
Speaker 2: They know, being the Dodgers know, the staff knows how

620
00:28:24,718 --> 00:28:27,798
Speaker 2: much they can trust these guys by their conversations, by

621
00:28:27,918 --> 00:28:31,078
Speaker 2: just watching them from the side, the body language, the

622
00:28:31,158 --> 00:28:32,878
Speaker 2: way the ball's coming out of their hand, all the

623
00:28:32,918 --> 00:28:36,798
Speaker 2: things that nobody they're not measurables in a sense that

624
00:28:36,878 --> 00:28:39,118
Speaker 2: you could put a gun on it or look at

625
00:28:39,198 --> 00:28:41,358
Speaker 2: data and try to figure it out. This is just

626
00:28:41,678 --> 00:28:44,518
Speaker 2: the eyeball test. And when the eyeball test doesn't match up. Man,

627
00:28:44,798 --> 00:28:47,198
Speaker 2: it's hard. It's hard to put your trust out there.

628
00:28:47,518 --> 00:28:51,318
Speaker 2: So again, this is a situation where they may rely

629
00:28:51,438 --> 00:28:53,798
Speaker 2: more heavily on the hot hand, and maybe one of

630
00:28:53,798 --> 00:28:57,358
Speaker 2: the young guys develops the hot hand situation like with

631
00:28:57,398 --> 00:29:00,038
Speaker 2: the Detroit did last year, with some of the youngsters

632
00:29:00,078 --> 00:29:01,798
Speaker 2: got hot and all of a sudden, you got these

633
00:29:01,798 --> 00:29:04,558
Speaker 2: hot guys coming out of the bullpen. Maybe not necessarily

634
00:29:04,598 --> 00:29:06,318
Speaker 2: a track record, but all of a sudden, they got

635
00:29:06,358 --> 00:29:08,838
Speaker 2: their blinders on. All they've seen is the catcher's glove.

636
00:29:09,278 --> 00:29:11,558
Speaker 2: They get caught up in the momentum and they just

637
00:29:11,598 --> 00:29:14,998
Speaker 2: don't know enough to be scared or frightened or uncertain.

638
00:29:15,278 --> 00:29:15,678
Speaker 3: That's it.

639
00:29:15,998 --> 00:29:17,918
Speaker 2: I've been through it, and it's not easy when you

640
00:29:17,918 --> 00:29:21,318
Speaker 2: don't have that total trust in the person coming in.

641
00:29:21,678 --> 00:29:25,318
Speaker 2: It's hard to tell your pitching coach called down and

642
00:29:25,358 --> 00:29:27,118
Speaker 2: gets so and so up. It's really difficult.

643
00:29:27,198 --> 00:29:29,038
Speaker 1: Well, I would not be surprised if we're looking at

644
00:29:29,078 --> 00:29:32,478
Speaker 1: another Yankees Dodgers World Series. But the caveat to that

645
00:29:32,638 --> 00:29:35,958
Speaker 1: is both teams have questions about how they finish off games.

646
00:29:36,638 --> 00:29:39,878
Speaker 1: And we've talked before, Joe about no home field advantage

647
00:29:39,878 --> 00:29:42,638
Speaker 1: in postseason play in the last three years, home teams

648
00:29:42,638 --> 00:29:45,758
Speaker 1: are sixty and sixty four. Here's another step, because we're

649
00:29:45,758 --> 00:29:48,118
Speaker 1: going to talk about your pick for the best team

650
00:29:48,158 --> 00:29:50,918
Speaker 1: coming out of the National League, not your World Series team,

651
00:29:50,958 --> 00:29:53,038
Speaker 1: but if you had the seed teams going in the

652
00:29:53,078 --> 00:29:55,878
Speaker 1: team to most beat. But looking at the way the

653
00:29:55,878 --> 00:29:57,798
Speaker 1: tournament as I call it, has played out in the

654
00:29:57,838 --> 00:30:01,838
Speaker 1: twelve team format in the last three years, number six teams.

655
00:30:01,838 --> 00:30:04,398
Speaker 1: So the last team in in each league has as

656
00:30:04,438 --> 00:30:08,278
Speaker 1: many wins in the postseason as the number one seed.

657
00:30:08,798 --> 00:30:11,278
Speaker 1: Let me say that again, the sixth seed has won

658
00:30:11,318 --> 00:30:13,318
Speaker 1: as many postseason games in the last three years as

659
00:30:13,318 --> 00:30:17,678
Speaker 1: the number one seed. So there is no chuck in

660
00:30:17,718 --> 00:30:20,878
Speaker 1: the baseball tournament in this twelve team format. But I

661
00:30:20,958 --> 00:30:23,998
Speaker 1: will tell you, and all due respect to Philly, which

662
00:30:24,078 --> 00:30:27,798
Speaker 1: is just rolling, especially at home, they are tough to

663
00:30:27,838 --> 00:30:31,438
Speaker 1: take out Milwaukee. Love to watch that team play. I'd

664
00:30:31,478 --> 00:30:33,198
Speaker 1: like to see a team that just sprays the ball

665
00:30:33,198 --> 00:30:36,118
Speaker 1: around and runs the bases win a World Series, and

666
00:30:36,158 --> 00:30:38,238
Speaker 1: they can do it. But I'm looking at the LA

667
00:30:38,358 --> 00:30:41,438
Speaker 1: Dodgers peaking at the right time. The talent on that

668
00:30:41,478 --> 00:30:44,078
Speaker 1: team is off the charts. I don't think anybody can

669
00:30:44,158 --> 00:30:46,238
Speaker 1: match their swing and miss what they have in the rotation.

670
00:30:46,838 --> 00:30:49,318
Speaker 1: For me, Joe, if I were seeding teams, I would

671
00:30:49,358 --> 00:30:51,478
Speaker 1: have the LA Dodgers right now number one. Who do

672
00:30:51,518 --> 00:30:51,838
Speaker 1: you have?

673
00:30:52,358 --> 00:30:54,318
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I like it.

674
00:30:54,518 --> 00:30:56,798
Speaker 2: To me, it's a toss up between Milwaukee and Philadelphia.

675
00:30:57,238 --> 00:30:59,478
Speaker 2: I still I'm staying with that. I think both of

676
00:30:59,478 --> 00:31:01,958
Speaker 2: those groups are Not that the Dodgers aren't hungry, They're

677
00:31:01,958 --> 00:31:05,518
Speaker 2: getting hungrier as seasons in progress, but they just really

678
00:31:05,558 --> 00:31:08,838
Speaker 2: haven't played this uber level of baseball this year that

679
00:31:08,918 --> 00:31:11,078
Speaker 2: everybody expected of them from the beginning. And I know

680
00:31:11,158 --> 00:31:13,398
Speaker 2: that a lot of their plans have been pointing towards

681
00:31:13,478 --> 00:31:16,878
Speaker 2: the end. And I think they're gonna play. They're gonna

682
00:31:16,918 --> 00:31:18,958
Speaker 2: They're gonna advance somewhat, but I don't think they're gonna

683
00:31:18,998 --> 00:31:19,358
Speaker 2: go all the.

684
00:31:19,278 --> 00:31:19,838
Speaker 3: Way this year.

685
00:31:19,998 --> 00:31:23,398
Speaker 2: I think the hungrier versions of the Milwaukee Phillies, and

686
00:31:23,798 --> 00:31:26,358
Speaker 2: my outlier team would be San Diego. Actually, the fact

687
00:31:26,398 --> 00:31:29,638
Speaker 2: that again, these are the hungry lions within the group,

688
00:31:29,838 --> 00:31:33,758
Speaker 2: within the desert there they want it. I think I'm listening.

689
00:31:33,758 --> 00:31:37,518
Speaker 2: I'm not incriminating anybody here, not suggesting anything other than that,

690
00:31:37,638 --> 00:31:39,838
Speaker 2: I think that the way these guys are going about

691
00:31:39,878 --> 00:31:42,798
Speaker 2: their business and their recent history is going to fuel

692
00:31:42,838 --> 00:31:45,518
Speaker 2: them a little bit more so I do. I love

693
00:31:45,718 --> 00:31:47,958
Speaker 2: Milwaukee and the way we play. We've talked about that.

694
00:31:48,518 --> 00:31:50,438
Speaker 2: San Diego is just the enigma team, up and down,

695
00:31:50,518 --> 00:31:51,198
Speaker 2: up and down whatever.

696
00:31:51,278 --> 00:31:51,638
Speaker 3: I don't know.

697
00:31:51,678 --> 00:31:53,878
Speaker 2: They still don't don't even have ninety wins, which is

698
00:31:53,878 --> 00:31:56,158
Speaker 2: always I mean, when teams get to the playoffs with

699
00:31:56,198 --> 00:32:00,438
Speaker 2: that ninety ones, it always bothers me, just my baseball sensibilities.

700
00:32:00,678 --> 00:32:02,078
Speaker 3: I know. There's the Phillies and again.

701
00:32:01,918 --> 00:32:03,878
Speaker 2: I watched them last night and they missed trait turned

702
00:32:03,958 --> 00:32:06,958
Speaker 2: and they're still They've turned up the dial and I

703
00:32:07,078 --> 00:32:09,238
Speaker 2: like some of their pitching there too, although you know,

704
00:32:09,278 --> 00:32:12,838
Speaker 2: the extended part of the rotation without Zach Wheeler difficult

705
00:32:12,958 --> 00:32:16,878
Speaker 2: to imagine. But if I had to pick one, if

706
00:32:16,918 --> 00:32:19,958
Speaker 2: I had to pick one, I'm saying the Phillies, although

707
00:32:19,998 --> 00:32:22,518
Speaker 2: I think I love Milwaukee, and I'm just saying I

708
00:32:22,518 --> 00:32:25,238
Speaker 2: think San Diego is going to overcome if they end

709
00:32:25,318 --> 00:32:27,238
Speaker 2: up playing one another of the Dodgers this year too.

710
00:32:27,438 --> 00:32:29,678
Speaker 1: One team we did not mention and we will talk

711
00:32:29,718 --> 00:32:31,798
Speaker 1: about them after this break is a team I call

712
00:32:31,878 --> 00:32:35,038
Speaker 1: a manager's nightmare, the New York Mets, And I'm explain

713
00:32:35,118 --> 00:32:37,598
Speaker 1: why I call them a manager's nightmare. When we get

714
00:32:37,638 --> 00:32:50,878
Speaker 1: back on the Book of Joe, Welcome back to the

715
00:32:50,918 --> 00:32:53,038
Speaker 1: Book of Joe. I called them New York Mets a

716
00:32:53,078 --> 00:32:56,638
Speaker 1: manager's nightmare, Joe, because I believe, and you correct me

717
00:32:56,678 --> 00:32:58,798
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, because you know better than I. One

718
00:32:58,838 --> 00:33:01,038
Speaker 1: of the worst feelings as a manager is going into

719
00:33:01,118 --> 00:33:03,798
Speaker 1: a game and not knowing how you can finish it.

720
00:33:04,158 --> 00:33:06,078
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, he's got it. With Diaz at the back,

721
00:33:06,598 --> 00:33:08,838
Speaker 1: with the New York Mets and Carlos Mendoza the manager,

722
00:33:08,878 --> 00:33:11,878
Speaker 1: they get no length from their starting pitching, and night

723
00:33:12,038 --> 00:33:16,118
Speaker 1: after night after night, he has to find options, like

724
00:33:16,158 --> 00:33:19,478
Speaker 1: in the fifth inning, to try to somehow get the

725
00:33:19,558 --> 00:33:22,958
Speaker 1: game deadwin Diaz, and yeah, you can do that for

726
00:33:22,998 --> 00:33:25,598
Speaker 1: a game or two, maybe a series, maybe even a week.

727
00:33:25,958 --> 00:33:29,078
Speaker 1: The Mets have been trying to do that for four months.

728
00:33:29,398 --> 00:33:33,718
Speaker 1: Only the Colorado Rockies have fewer starts of six innings

729
00:33:33,918 --> 00:33:36,558
Speaker 1: than the New York Mets, and they're hanging on by

730
00:33:36,598 --> 00:33:40,358
Speaker 1: a thread here. Since the middle of June, they're thirty

731
00:33:40,558 --> 00:33:43,838
Speaker 1: six and fifty three. The Mets have been a bad

732
00:33:43,918 --> 00:33:47,718
Speaker 1: team longer than they've been a good team. They've used

733
00:33:47,758 --> 00:33:51,238
Speaker 1: more pitchers than any team in the history of the game,

734
00:33:51,998 --> 00:33:54,718
Speaker 1: and it's all caught up to them, the fact that

735
00:33:54,758 --> 00:33:57,558
Speaker 1: they have not gotten on any length and right now

736
00:33:57,558 --> 00:34:00,358
Speaker 1: down the stretch they were lying on three guys. A

737
00:34:00,358 --> 00:34:03,638
Speaker 1: month ago were in the rotation of the Binghamton Rumble Ponies.

738
00:34:04,038 --> 00:34:06,518
Speaker 1: I mean, it is a hard way to win, knowing

739
00:34:06,558 --> 00:34:10,758
Speaker 1: you have so many outs to cover every single night.

740
00:34:11,118 --> 00:34:14,598
Speaker 1: They may still get in. I don't know, But Joe,

741
00:34:14,998 --> 00:34:18,118
Speaker 1: you talk also about body language. Tell me what you

742
00:34:18,198 --> 00:34:21,238
Speaker 1: see when you're looking at the New York Mets, because

743
00:34:21,318 --> 00:34:23,798
Speaker 1: I see some of that hang dog look as well

744
00:34:23,838 --> 00:34:24,918
Speaker 1: that you don't want to see.

745
00:34:25,038 --> 00:34:27,438
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're expecting them. They're not expecting to win. I'm

746
00:34:27,438 --> 00:34:29,398
Speaker 2: not saying they're expecting to lose, but they're definitely not

747
00:34:29,478 --> 00:34:31,718
Speaker 2: expecting to win. And as you just suggested, as the

748
00:34:31,758 --> 00:34:34,038
Speaker 2: game got deeper, they're waiting for the other shoe to

749
00:34:34,078 --> 00:34:37,118
Speaker 2: fall somehow. Now, just going back a little bit, you

750
00:34:37,158 --> 00:34:40,318
Speaker 2: talked about starting pitching. It's the industry's fault the way

751
00:34:40,478 --> 00:34:42,478
Speaker 2: the starting pitching is today.

752
00:34:42,638 --> 00:34:44,798
Speaker 3: And they're right at the forefront of it. They didn't

753
00:34:44,838 --> 00:34:45,558
Speaker 3: want to pay for it.

754
00:34:45,798 --> 00:34:47,798
Speaker 2: I don't even know who they could have bought in

755
00:34:47,838 --> 00:34:50,438
Speaker 2: the off season anyway, But you know, you're bringing homes

756
00:34:50,478 --> 00:34:52,998
Speaker 2: and men, they try to resurrect them, et cetera, and

757
00:34:53,038 --> 00:34:55,998
Speaker 2: it's not working out train otherwise. I love the kid

758
00:34:56,078 --> 00:34:58,638
Speaker 2: McClain though, don't get me wrong. That guy's nice and

759
00:34:58,638 --> 00:35:00,998
Speaker 2: they brought him up from their system. But we're not

760
00:35:01,158 --> 00:35:04,278
Speaker 2: nurturing the starting pitching. It's not a it's not a

761
00:35:04,278 --> 00:35:08,558
Speaker 2: part of the formula coming through the minor leagues, drafting,

762
00:35:08,638 --> 00:35:11,518
Speaker 2: developing big leagues. We want them only to pitch four

763
00:35:11,598 --> 00:35:13,438
Speaker 2: or five. That's what they've been trained to do. They're

764
00:35:13,478 --> 00:35:15,558
Speaker 2: not trained to go six to seven. They don't even

765
00:35:15,558 --> 00:35:18,118
Speaker 2: know what it's like to fight through the third time

766
00:35:18,158 --> 00:35:20,278
Speaker 2: through the batting order to play deeper into the game.

767
00:35:20,318 --> 00:35:21,518
Speaker 3: They don't even know what it's like.

768
00:35:21,958 --> 00:35:24,438
Speaker 2: The Marquee matchup is a thing of the past, and

769
00:35:24,478 --> 00:35:26,238
Speaker 2: that that's also going to be part of what I

770
00:35:26,278 --> 00:35:27,878
Speaker 2: was going to talk about at the very end. And

771
00:35:27,958 --> 00:35:32,598
Speaker 2: so I think it's a built in industry fault listening

772
00:35:32,598 --> 00:35:34,838
Speaker 2: to analytics so much to the point where the third

773
00:35:34,878 --> 00:35:37,798
Speaker 2: time through the batting orders becomes such a kryptonite kind

774
00:35:37,798 --> 00:35:40,078
Speaker 2: of a situation that we don't even want to give

775
00:35:40,118 --> 00:35:43,478
Speaker 2: guys the opportunity to figure out if they can or cannot.

776
00:35:43,118 --> 00:35:44,078
Speaker 3: Do these kind of things.

777
00:35:44,118 --> 00:35:46,558
Speaker 2: So when you get faced with moments like this, to me,

778
00:35:46,598 --> 00:35:49,598
Speaker 2: it's a built in it's your own fault for nurturing

779
00:35:49,718 --> 00:35:52,558
Speaker 2: this kind of a method, and it's the method they

780
00:35:52,598 --> 00:35:53,838
Speaker 2: wanted at the beginning of the season.

781
00:35:53,838 --> 00:35:54,718
Speaker 3: This is what they thought.

782
00:35:54,558 --> 00:35:56,998
Speaker 2: Would work, and now they're finding out that it doesn't.

783
00:35:57,558 --> 00:36:00,238
Speaker 2: But everybody is when you have teams that are like

784
00:36:00,278 --> 00:36:02,318
Speaker 2: I said, there's so many teams that are still solvent,

785
00:36:02,758 --> 00:36:06,278
Speaker 2: even two games over five hundred that are solvent regarding

786
00:36:06,278 --> 00:36:09,878
Speaker 2: possibly getting into the playoffs. If you have starting pitchers,

787
00:36:09,918 --> 00:36:12,558
Speaker 2: like a real legitimate starting staff that these guys make

788
00:36:12,638 --> 00:36:14,878
Speaker 2: most of their starts for the during the course of

789
00:36:14,878 --> 00:36:15,998
Speaker 2: the year, you're going.

790
00:36:15,998 --> 00:36:17,358
Speaker 3: To be in your ninety wins right now.

791
00:36:17,398 --> 00:36:20,078
Speaker 2: If you got legitimate major league starting pitchers, they get

792
00:36:20,078 --> 00:36:22,278
Speaker 2: out there all the time. And I listen with the

793
00:36:22,398 --> 00:36:23,998
Speaker 2: rays we did that. That was the thing I used

794
00:36:23,998 --> 00:36:26,438
Speaker 2: to challenge my guys on an annual basis, the starters.

795
00:36:26,558 --> 00:36:28,718
Speaker 2: The challenge was a thousand innings out of you guys,

796
00:36:28,758 --> 00:36:32,278
Speaker 2: not just five, maybe six, maybe seven guys total, But

797
00:36:32,358 --> 00:36:34,478
Speaker 2: you wanted a thousand innings out of your starting pitcher,

798
00:36:34,558 --> 00:36:37,638
Speaker 2: and it's impossible anyway. I know that, but when it happens,

799
00:36:37,918 --> 00:36:39,238
Speaker 2: when your guys are capable of.

800
00:36:39,198 --> 00:36:40,078
Speaker 3: Doing that, you're pretty good.

801
00:36:40,158 --> 00:36:41,958
Speaker 2: You're gonna be pretty good, and your bullpen's going to

802
00:36:41,998 --> 00:36:44,478
Speaker 2: be better too. So anyway, it's a built in. It's

803
00:36:44,518 --> 00:36:47,878
Speaker 2: an industry's fault. So I really have no sympathy for that.

804
00:36:48,158 --> 00:36:50,598
Speaker 1: Well, Ye're one hundred percent right. This is built in.

805
00:36:50,758 --> 00:36:52,958
Speaker 1: You watch the way teams play the regular season. Dodgers

806
00:36:52,958 --> 00:36:56,558
Speaker 1: a good example of this. They're pitching their pitchers or

807
00:36:56,558 --> 00:37:00,478
Speaker 1: starters with more rest and fewer innings. You know, the

808
00:37:00,558 --> 00:37:03,838
Speaker 1: Dodgers are by far the fewest starts of four days

809
00:37:04,198 --> 00:37:06,878
Speaker 1: or fewer this year, Like, by far, no one's close

810
00:37:06,958 --> 00:37:09,918
Speaker 1: to them, and no one is putting the pedal to

811
00:37:09,958 --> 00:37:12,558
Speaker 1: the floor to try to win those ninety plus games

812
00:37:12,558 --> 00:37:14,678
Speaker 1: you're talking about, Joe, we're talking about two straight years

813
00:37:14,678 --> 00:37:16,718
Speaker 1: now where no team has won one hundred games. It's

814
00:37:16,758 --> 00:37:20,238
Speaker 1: almost by design because you're willing to back off your

815
00:37:20,278 --> 00:37:23,598
Speaker 1: pitchers and qualify for the tournament. I hate to put

816
00:37:23,598 --> 00:37:26,238
Speaker 1: it that way, but it's true. And you're seeing teams

817
00:37:26,238 --> 00:37:28,638
Speaker 1: you can play around five hundred baseball for five months.

818
00:37:28,638 --> 00:37:30,598
Speaker 1: You're in the thick of things. And I just talked

819
00:37:30,638 --> 00:37:32,598
Speaker 1: about how the six team can beat the number one

820
00:37:32,638 --> 00:37:36,198
Speaker 1: seed easily in the baseball postseason. So what's the risk

821
00:37:36,278 --> 00:37:39,078
Speaker 1: reward risk is try to win as many as possible.

822
00:37:39,278 --> 00:37:41,318
Speaker 1: What does that get you? Doesn't get you much, So

823
00:37:41,518 --> 00:37:43,998
Speaker 1: just get in and that's what we're seeing. David Stearns

824
00:37:44,038 --> 00:37:46,318
Speaker 1: worked this plant to perfection of twenty nineteen with the

825
00:37:46,358 --> 00:37:50,878
Speaker 1: Brewers short starts right out the work. They did really well.

826
00:37:51,238 --> 00:37:52,918
Speaker 1: It worked a little bit last year for the Mets.

827
00:37:52,958 --> 00:37:54,438
Speaker 1: Well that more than a little bit. They got to

828
00:37:54,478 --> 00:37:57,438
Speaker 1: the NLCS. But you're right, it's blown up on them

829
00:37:57,478 --> 00:37:59,398
Speaker 1: this year. And the other thing, Joe is, look at

830
00:37:59,398 --> 00:38:01,518
Speaker 1: what the Mets did at the trade deadline. They need

831
00:38:01,518 --> 00:38:04,438
Speaker 1: a bullpen help. They got Ryan Helsley and he needed

832
00:38:04,438 --> 00:38:07,558
Speaker 1: outfield help. They got Cedric Mullins. They go to Chicago

833
00:38:07,678 --> 00:38:10,798
Speaker 1: for a series this week, big series, hanging on by

834
00:38:10,798 --> 00:38:12,958
Speaker 1: a thread. Last week of the season. They get a

835
00:38:12,998 --> 00:38:15,838
Speaker 1: close game in the eighth inning, there's no Ryan Helsley.

836
00:38:16,158 --> 00:38:20,078
Speaker 1: Mendoza asked Diaz to get six outs. It tells you

837
00:38:20,198 --> 00:38:22,198
Speaker 1: how far out of the circle of trust Hellsley is.

838
00:38:22,598 --> 00:38:25,718
Speaker 1: And he began that game with Cedric Mullins on the bench.

839
00:38:25,958 --> 00:38:28,718
Speaker 1: It compromised his defense to have Nimo play center fields.

840
00:38:28,798 --> 00:38:31,518
Speaker 1: Darling Marte leftfield for the onlyest six time all year,

841
00:38:31,558 --> 00:38:33,958
Speaker 1: getting out there because he needed more offense, because he

842
00:38:34,038 --> 00:38:36,678
Speaker 1: knows the Mets have to outscore other teams to win

843
00:38:36,718 --> 00:38:40,318
Speaker 1: a game. Those are two huge whiffs. And talking about

844
00:38:40,398 --> 00:38:43,878
Speaker 1: Helsley and Mullens, and again I've said this, Joe. You're

845
00:38:43,878 --> 00:38:46,398
Speaker 1: talking about guys who've been in one organization their whole

846
00:38:46,398 --> 00:38:48,438
Speaker 1: career ten years, and then you drop them into a

847
00:38:48,478 --> 00:38:50,358
Speaker 1: playoff race in New York and say go get them.

848
00:38:50,358 --> 00:38:52,398
Speaker 1: You've got to do it right away. That has really

849
00:38:52,438 --> 00:38:54,478
Speaker 1: harmed the New York Mets. And I'm with youa McLean

850
00:38:54,918 --> 00:38:58,038
Speaker 1: I like him. He spins the baseball literally more in

851
00:38:58,118 --> 00:39:00,878
Speaker 1: terms of RPMs than anybody in baseball, but he also

852
00:39:00,918 --> 00:39:02,638
Speaker 1: has to be protected. You're not going to have him

853
00:39:02,678 --> 00:39:05,078
Speaker 1: throw seven eight innings. He's never pitched a six month

854
00:39:05,118 --> 00:39:08,718
Speaker 1: of a professional season before, so this is all coming back,

855
00:39:09,198 --> 00:39:10,878
Speaker 1: you know, to haunt the New York Mets in terms

856
00:39:10,918 --> 00:39:14,558
Speaker 1: of lack of length from their rotation. And again I

857
00:39:15,118 --> 00:39:18,518
Speaker 1: sympathize with Carlos Mendoza. How you get through a game

858
00:39:18,718 --> 00:39:21,118
Speaker 1: knowing you pretty much have to score six or seven runs,

859
00:39:21,318 --> 00:39:24,678
Speaker 1: and you're gonna have to keep leaning on these bullpen

860
00:39:24,798 --> 00:39:28,758
Speaker 1: guys night after night. That's a hard walk to try

861
00:39:28,798 --> 00:39:29,718
Speaker 1: to get to October.

862
00:39:29,798 --> 00:39:31,678
Speaker 3: First of all, I mean, I listen when they got

863
00:39:31,678 --> 00:39:32,998
Speaker 3: Hellsley and Mullins. I like that.

864
00:39:33,158 --> 00:39:35,518
Speaker 2: I like those guys. I've seen Hellsley and Saint Louis

865
00:39:35,558 --> 00:39:37,878
Speaker 2: outs standing in. Mullins was always a good player. Like

866
00:39:37,998 --> 00:39:39,438
Speaker 2: you're saying, it's just to dump him into a New

867
00:39:39,518 --> 00:39:42,358
Speaker 2: York Pennant race or something went awry there. But when

868
00:39:42,358 --> 00:39:44,558
Speaker 2: that first occurred, I thought bully for them. I thought

869
00:39:44,558 --> 00:39:47,798
Speaker 2: they were both good moves. I did, so that's that's it.

870
00:39:47,878 --> 00:39:49,798
Speaker 2: And on the other side, Carlos Mendoz I think is

871
00:39:49,798 --> 00:39:50,278
Speaker 2: a good man.

872
00:39:50,398 --> 00:39:52,598
Speaker 3: I like him. I like him a lot. Obviously does

873
00:39:52,638 --> 00:39:54,958
Speaker 3: a great job I do. I like him a lot.

874
00:39:55,078 --> 00:39:56,198
Speaker 3: I like his demeanor.

875
00:39:57,118 --> 00:39:59,238
Speaker 2: He doesn't show the emotion in the dugout when things

876
00:39:59,278 --> 00:40:02,198
Speaker 2: go poorly when I when I recess upthing. I like

877
00:40:02,238 --> 00:40:04,918
Speaker 2: what he says and how he says it. So hopefully

878
00:40:04,958 --> 00:40:07,478
Speaker 2: none of this falls on him, because I really do

879
00:40:07,918 --> 00:40:09,998
Speaker 2: this guy's going to be a good manager for many

880
00:40:10,038 --> 00:40:13,838
Speaker 2: years to come. He reeks of old school kind of training.

881
00:40:14,318 --> 00:40:16,158
Speaker 2: He did it the right way how he got there.

882
00:40:16,238 --> 00:40:19,478
Speaker 2: So I'm a big fan, so hopefully they don't lay

883
00:40:19,518 --> 00:40:21,878
Speaker 2: any blame on him. But everything you've laid out there

884
00:40:21,918 --> 00:40:24,518
Speaker 2: is absolutely accurate. And you get to that point when

885
00:40:24,558 --> 00:40:27,758
Speaker 2: you start bringing your closer in for six outs in

886
00:40:27,798 --> 00:40:30,398
Speaker 2: this time of the year, My god, if you even

887
00:40:30,518 --> 00:40:33,238
Speaker 2: get to the playoffs, that closer is not going to

888
00:40:33,318 --> 00:40:35,518
Speaker 2: be the guy you've saw all year or somebody you

889
00:40:35,558 --> 00:40:38,238
Speaker 2: can count on. It's going to fall apart at some point.

890
00:40:38,238 --> 00:40:41,838
Speaker 2: It's just hard, difficult than possible to try to scratch

891
00:40:41,878 --> 00:40:44,358
Speaker 2: a guy like that for that length of period of

892
00:40:44,358 --> 00:40:47,038
Speaker 2: time and expect a consistent level of good result.

893
00:40:47,078 --> 00:40:49,358
Speaker 3: It's just not going to happen. So anyway, I like

894
00:40:49,438 --> 00:40:49,878
Speaker 3: the deals.

895
00:40:49,878 --> 00:40:53,078
Speaker 2: It's not working out, and I hope Mendoza doesn't take

896
00:40:53,078 --> 00:40:54,758
Speaker 2: a hit on this because he's done a great job

897
00:40:54,798 --> 00:40:55,358
Speaker 2: and I like him.

898
00:40:55,358 --> 00:40:56,758
Speaker 3: He's going to be a good manager for many years

899
00:40:56,798 --> 00:40:57,078
Speaker 3: to come.

900
00:40:57,318 --> 00:40:59,038
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you on Carlos. I think he does

901
00:40:59,038 --> 00:41:01,598
Speaker 1: a great job. That the roster construction, you know, the

902
00:41:01,718 --> 00:41:03,558
Speaker 1: lack of length from starting pitching. He's got nothing to

903
00:41:03,598 --> 00:41:06,438
Speaker 1: do with the manager here, but it's a tough way

904
00:41:06,558 --> 00:41:09,478
Speaker 1: again to get through a game on a nightly basis.

905
00:41:09,998 --> 00:41:12,638
Speaker 1: So we've got the Tigers and the Mets and the

906
00:41:12,678 --> 00:41:16,358
Speaker 1: Astros all collapsing down here in September. We will see

907
00:41:16,398 --> 00:41:18,838
Speaker 1: if any of those teams, or at least a couple

908
00:41:18,878 --> 00:41:22,878
Speaker 1: of them, squeeze into October, and we'll see. Momentum does

909
00:41:22,918 --> 00:41:25,398
Speaker 1: it matter? Not as much as we think. I've seen

910
00:41:25,438 --> 00:41:27,318
Speaker 1: a lot of teams struggle down the stretch, Joe and

911
00:41:27,358 --> 00:41:29,918
Speaker 1: still go on a run. Two thousand Yankees come to mind.

912
00:41:30,558 --> 00:41:33,038
Speaker 1: It can be done, but you'd much rather be playing

913
00:41:33,038 --> 00:41:35,158
Speaker 1: like Seattle right now, where you feel like you could

914
00:41:35,158 --> 00:41:37,878
Speaker 1: take on the world and win. So, Joe, you've teased

915
00:41:37,918 --> 00:41:40,678
Speaker 1: your final thought here for a while here I'm looking

916
00:41:40,718 --> 00:41:43,318
Speaker 1: forward to it. You always end our episodes of the

917
00:41:43,318 --> 00:41:46,038
Speaker 1: Book of Joe with words of wisdom. So what do

918
00:41:46,078 --> 00:41:47,158
Speaker 1: you have for us today?

919
00:41:47,438 --> 00:41:49,478
Speaker 2: Well, you use it again, and I mean it really

920
00:41:49,518 --> 00:41:51,638
Speaker 2: does a lot. Momentum has a lot to do with

921
00:41:51,718 --> 00:41:54,278
Speaker 2: this time of the year. But as one of the

922
00:41:54,318 --> 00:41:56,878
Speaker 2: quotes here is like from our boy or a Weaver,

923
00:41:57,518 --> 00:42:01,518
Speaker 2: momentum question mark momentum is the next day starting pitcher,

924
00:42:01,558 --> 00:42:03,838
Speaker 2: and we've That's what I was trying to allude to there.

925
00:42:03,998 --> 00:42:09,198
Speaker 2: Without the training of real Marquee style starting pitchers which

926
00:42:09,198 --> 00:42:11,358
Speaker 2: we were used to growing up. I don't even know

927
00:42:11,398 --> 00:42:13,718
Speaker 2: even even in the recent past. It's not like the

928
00:42:13,838 --> 00:42:17,238
Speaker 2: distant past where when you talk about momentum, your next

929
00:42:17,318 --> 00:42:19,918
Speaker 2: day starting pitcher, Who are those guys? How many of

930
00:42:19,918 --> 00:42:22,158
Speaker 2: those guys exist today? That's that's what I was trying

931
00:42:22,198 --> 00:42:26,118
Speaker 2: to figure out. Who are the marquee guys. I think

932
00:42:26,238 --> 00:42:30,318
Speaker 2: Schemes absolutely is a marquee guy. I think show Hey

933
00:42:30,798 --> 00:42:33,438
Speaker 2: obviously is a marquee guy. A guy that you can

934
00:42:33,958 --> 00:42:36,638
Speaker 2: you know he's pitching the next day. You might your

935
00:42:36,638 --> 00:42:38,118
Speaker 2: bullpen might be a little bit tard. You have to

936
00:42:38,118 --> 00:42:40,038
Speaker 2: really push to win a game because you know this

937
00:42:40,118 --> 00:42:43,078
Speaker 2: guy can carry the game more deeply the next day.

938
00:42:43,598 --> 00:42:46,518
Speaker 2: But I, you know, to sit down and I didn't

939
00:42:46,878 --> 00:42:50,118
Speaker 2: do the exercise yet, but sit down and write marquee matchup.

940
00:42:50,158 --> 00:42:53,518
Speaker 2: Marquee kind of starting pitchers that the fans have to

941
00:42:53,558 --> 00:42:55,798
Speaker 2: see and that you as a manager, I feel really

942
00:42:55,798 --> 00:42:57,878
Speaker 2: good about this guy going to get deeper into the

943
00:42:57,918 --> 00:43:00,638
Speaker 2: game and not having to use your bullpen. Listen, even

944
00:43:00,638 --> 00:43:04,518
Speaker 2: in the Asalem Angels back in the day or o'lugu,

945
00:43:04,558 --> 00:43:04,798
Speaker 2: I went.

946
00:43:04,798 --> 00:43:05,998
Speaker 3: Up to him before a playoff game.

947
00:43:05,998 --> 00:43:09,318
Speaker 2: This is in nineteen eighty two, I think right, and

948
00:43:09,358 --> 00:43:12,598
Speaker 2: I said, Socio the way the innings Manana nine innings tomorrow.

949
00:43:12,598 --> 00:43:13,318
Speaker 3: This is a kid.

950
00:43:13,518 --> 00:43:16,078
Speaker 2: And then also at Kirk McCaskill, he went nine innings

951
00:43:16,358 --> 00:43:19,438
Speaker 2: in a playoff game for the saalem Angels back.

952
00:43:19,278 --> 00:43:21,078
Speaker 3: Then nobody batter an eye.

953
00:43:21,518 --> 00:43:23,758
Speaker 2: These are the kind of things that I'd love to

954
00:43:23,798 --> 00:43:27,238
Speaker 2: see to be renurtured. I don't know, Max Freed, maybe

955
00:43:27,478 --> 00:43:30,638
Speaker 2: as one of those guys. Rundn't possibly right now, one

956
00:43:30,678 --> 00:43:32,678
Speaker 2: of those guys. But again, sit down and write your

957
00:43:32,718 --> 00:43:36,558
Speaker 2: list of Marquis style pitchers, the guys that really meet

958
00:43:36,598 --> 00:43:40,438
Speaker 2: the requirements of Earl weavers definition of momentum. Who are

959
00:43:40,478 --> 00:43:42,478
Speaker 2: those guys? I don't even know who those guys are,

960
00:43:42,998 --> 00:43:46,438
Speaker 2: So anyhow, that was it. And then momentum begets momentum

961
00:43:46,438 --> 00:43:48,558
Speaker 2: and like you're talking about and the best way to

962
00:43:48,598 --> 00:43:50,678
Speaker 2: start is to start that comes from another dude, But

963
00:43:50,678 --> 00:43:53,158
Speaker 2: it's true. I mean, I'm watching these guys. I'm watching

964
00:43:53,198 --> 00:43:55,318
Speaker 2: the Tigers play the Indians right now. I'm like, God,

965
00:43:56,398 --> 00:43:58,198
Speaker 2: whoever the Larry Bird is in that team, where the

966
00:43:58,198 --> 00:43:59,998
Speaker 2: Michael Jordan on that team or the Tom Brady on

967
00:44:00,038 --> 00:44:02,278
Speaker 2: that team, God has got to stand up.

968
00:44:02,398 --> 00:44:03,558
Speaker 3: They got to start down one.

969
00:44:03,638 --> 00:44:06,238
Speaker 1: Joe I said, it's a bunch of really nice guys.

970
00:44:06,358 --> 00:44:09,678
Speaker 1: They're all players, but they they lack that that heart

971
00:44:09,718 --> 00:44:10,558
Speaker 1: and soul kind of guy.

972
00:44:11,158 --> 00:44:11,358
Speaker 3: Yeah.

973
00:44:11,398 --> 00:44:14,158
Speaker 2: They they need somebody to do something stupid in the clubhouse.

974
00:44:14,238 --> 00:44:17,518
Speaker 2: I mean like really crazy, goofy, nothing, something that you

975
00:44:17,518 --> 00:44:20,678
Speaker 2: could ever talk about publicly, because they need they need

976
00:44:20,718 --> 00:44:24,478
Speaker 2: to loosen that stuff up, man, because it's so uptight.

977
00:44:24,838 --> 00:44:25,878
Speaker 3: I can't even watch.

978
00:44:25,958 --> 00:44:27,878
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm getting nervous watching the one on TV.

979
00:44:28,438 --> 00:44:31,598
Speaker 2: So that's that's what it comes down to. The industry

980
00:44:31,638 --> 00:44:36,198
Speaker 2: needs to start to nurture more momentum building building starting pitchers,

981
00:44:36,518 --> 00:44:38,518
Speaker 2: the guys that can go the third time through the

982
00:44:38,558 --> 00:44:41,158
Speaker 2: batting order, and the kind that when when you put

983
00:44:41,158 --> 00:44:44,078
Speaker 2: the two names down the night before Probables and you

984
00:44:44,118 --> 00:44:46,718
Speaker 2: look at those two names, that's like much see, that's

985
00:44:46,838 --> 00:44:48,758
Speaker 2: must watch, a much must see TV.

986
00:44:49,318 --> 00:44:52,558
Speaker 1: You just brought back to mind Anthony Rizzo's dancing and

987
00:44:52,678 --> 00:44:57,998
Speaker 1: yeahs before referencing the next team postseason. Absolutely, but you

988
00:44:58,038 --> 00:45:00,158
Speaker 1: also made me think it's a great point about those

989
00:45:00,198 --> 00:45:03,398
Speaker 1: marquee guys, right, and you know when you have them

990
00:45:03,438 --> 00:45:05,998
Speaker 1: the next day sometimes that can help you win that

991
00:45:06,118 --> 00:45:10,918
Speaker 1: night's Absolutely and best classic example. I'll never forget this.

992
00:45:11,118 --> 00:45:14,238
Speaker 1: After the Twins win Game six of the ninety one

993
00:45:14,238 --> 00:45:16,718
Speaker 1: World Series, the great Kirby Puckett game, the walk off

994
00:45:16,718 --> 00:45:19,398
Speaker 1: home run. We're heading to a Game seven. So after

995
00:45:19,478 --> 00:45:24,238
Speaker 1: that game, Jack Morris is the Game seven starter from Minnesota.

996
00:45:24,358 --> 00:45:28,598
Speaker 1: He came into the postgame interview room, which, let's face it,

997
00:45:28,718 --> 00:45:30,638
Speaker 1: not a lot of guys are going to do right.

998
00:45:30,838 --> 00:45:32,398
Speaker 1: A lot of guys who got the ball the next

999
00:45:32,438 --> 00:45:34,238
Speaker 1: day for Game seven, they're out of there early. They

1000
00:45:34,278 --> 00:45:36,078
Speaker 1: don't want to talk to anybody. They're getting their game

1001
00:45:36,118 --> 00:45:38,958
Speaker 1: faced on, they're getting prepped. Jack Morris is like, yeah,

1002
00:45:38,958 --> 00:45:42,318
Speaker 1: I'll go in there, goes into the interview room. Asked

1003
00:45:42,358 --> 00:45:44,358
Speaker 1: about what it's like or what it will be like

1004
00:45:44,478 --> 00:45:47,638
Speaker 1: pitching a Game seven. He hasn't bat an eye, he says,

1005
00:45:47,918 --> 00:45:50,878
Speaker 1: in the words of the late great Marvin Gay, let's

1006
00:45:50,878 --> 00:45:53,478
Speaker 1: get it on. I mean, they don't make them like

1007
00:45:53,518 --> 00:45:54,838
Speaker 1: that anymore, Joe.

1008
00:45:54,918 --> 00:45:58,278
Speaker 2: Right, That's that's greatness. That is greatness. Never get in

1009
00:45:58,318 --> 00:46:01,678
Speaker 2: the way of greatness. And that's the charismatic part of it.

1010
00:46:01,718 --> 00:46:04,718
Speaker 2: That's those those are the guys that they are must

1011
00:46:04,798 --> 00:46:05,918
Speaker 2: see there, must watch.

1012
00:46:06,278 --> 00:46:07,238
Speaker 3: I love that stuff.

1013
00:46:07,278 --> 00:46:08,918
Speaker 2: And you could go all the way back to you know,

1014
00:46:08,958 --> 00:46:11,198
Speaker 2: Gibson and all those dudes and Drysdale.

1015
00:46:11,278 --> 00:46:14,318
Speaker 1: You couldn't take then, by the way, to Kelly tried

1016
00:46:14,358 --> 00:46:15,638
Speaker 1: to take the ball in his hand, he would have

1017
00:46:15,718 --> 00:46:17,078
Speaker 1: a fight right there to dugout.

1018
00:46:17,478 --> 00:46:18,798
Speaker 3: You knew that, and you know that.

1019
00:46:18,878 --> 00:46:20,998
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, my most recent comp with that for

1020
00:46:21,078 --> 00:46:23,078
Speaker 2: me was Johnny Lackey. And John Lackey and I were

1021
00:46:23,118 --> 00:46:25,158
Speaker 2: teammates with the Angels too when he was a pitcher

1022
00:46:25,198 --> 00:46:26,158
Speaker 2: and I was the bench coach.

1023
00:46:26,318 --> 00:46:27,238
Speaker 3: Were about drinking.

1024
00:46:27,478 --> 00:46:29,798
Speaker 2: But I mean I as a manager to go out

1025
00:46:29,798 --> 00:46:32,078
Speaker 2: there to get the ball from him, oh my god.

1026
00:46:32,438 --> 00:46:34,278
Speaker 2: You know, I'd have to go out there, and afterwards

1027
00:46:34,278 --> 00:46:35,558
Speaker 2: I'd have to go up to him and to dug

1028
00:46:35,558 --> 00:46:36,798
Speaker 2: out and say something to him.

1029
00:46:37,038 --> 00:46:37,598
Speaker 3: And I missen.

1030
00:46:37,638 --> 00:46:41,158
Speaker 2: I loved him for it. But that's for me thinking

1031
00:46:41,158 --> 00:46:43,318
Speaker 2: about all the guys. Johnny Lester had some of that

1032
00:46:43,358 --> 00:46:46,478
Speaker 2: in him. Also, James Shields had some of that in him.

1033
00:46:46,478 --> 00:46:50,358
Speaker 2: Two to a certain level. Alex Cobb, I mean the guys. Unfortunately,

1034
00:46:50,358 --> 00:46:53,358
Speaker 2: I have had those kind of starting pitchers. Also, Alex

1035
00:46:53,398 --> 00:46:55,678
Speaker 2: Cobb is like one of the best starting pitchers of

1036
00:46:55,718 --> 00:46:58,238
Speaker 2: the last twenty years that nobody talks about. I absolutely

1037
00:46:58,238 --> 00:47:00,438
Speaker 2: believe that David Price hate it to come out of

1038
00:47:00,478 --> 00:47:02,838
Speaker 2: a game. That's what we have to nurture when you

1039
00:47:02,998 --> 00:47:06,358
Speaker 2: if you're if you're trying to develop minor league starting

1040
00:47:06,358 --> 00:47:08,958
Speaker 2: pitching to become good major league starting pitching, keep an

1041
00:47:08,998 --> 00:47:12,238
Speaker 2: eye on the guys that give you the hardest, sincereous,

1042
00:47:12,558 --> 00:47:14,878
Speaker 2: hardest time when you take them out. There's also the

1043
00:47:14,918 --> 00:47:17,478
Speaker 2: guys that do the They'll just they'll just argue for

1044
00:47:17,518 --> 00:47:19,478
Speaker 2: the sake of arguing, so everybody else it's like a

1045
00:47:19,478 --> 00:47:20,158
Speaker 2: baseball fight.

1046
00:47:20,198 --> 00:47:22,198
Speaker 3: Hold me back, hold me back. I really don't want

1047
00:47:22,238 --> 00:47:22,558
Speaker 3: to fight.

1048
00:47:22,718 --> 00:47:24,758
Speaker 2: So there's those guys that will give you this the

1049
00:47:24,798 --> 00:47:27,558
Speaker 2: lip service because they know they got to be that

1050
00:47:27,598 --> 00:47:30,558
Speaker 2: way because everybody's looking. But then there's the dudes that

1051
00:47:30,718 --> 00:47:33,958
Speaker 2: really really are kind of upset and almost want to

1052
00:47:34,038 --> 00:47:36,638
Speaker 2: challenge in the dugout. Try to nurture that. And if

1053
00:47:36,678 --> 00:47:39,518
Speaker 2: you start nurturing that within your minor league developmental system,

1054
00:47:39,598 --> 00:47:42,518
Speaker 2: you potentially have some Markey kind of pitchers that could

1055
00:47:42,518 --> 00:47:43,638
Speaker 2: take you to the promised land.

1056
00:47:44,038 --> 00:47:46,998
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny you say that. I always watch the

1057
00:47:47,038 --> 00:47:49,758
Speaker 1: body language as the manager comes out of the dugout.

1058
00:47:49,878 --> 00:47:50,118
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1059
00:47:50,198 --> 00:47:52,398
Speaker 1: Right, And if you see in today's game, there are

1060
00:47:52,478 --> 00:47:55,358
Speaker 1: a lot of pitchers who will begin to hand the

1061
00:47:55,398 --> 00:47:58,478
Speaker 1: ball to the manager before I believe it asks for it. Right,

1062
00:47:58,758 --> 00:48:00,918
Speaker 1: they can't wait to give up the baseball. It's a

1063
00:48:00,918 --> 00:48:03,118
Speaker 1: little thing. It's a little but it's a little tail

1064
00:48:03,118 --> 00:48:05,918
Speaker 1: and body language. When that hand goes out to the

1065
00:48:05,918 --> 00:48:08,558
Speaker 1: manager before the manager even asks for the ball. I

1066
00:48:08,638 --> 00:48:10,638
Speaker 1: hate to see that, but it does happen a lot.

1067
00:48:10,838 --> 00:48:12,438
Speaker 2: That's so when you go to take a lackey out

1068
00:48:12,438 --> 00:48:14,758
Speaker 2: of the game, you motion to the bullpen before you

1069
00:48:14,798 --> 00:48:17,998
Speaker 2: cross the line, because because if you if you don't,

1070
00:48:17,998 --> 00:48:20,798
Speaker 2: and I've seen it I think recently, sometimes these managers

1071
00:48:20,798 --> 00:48:22,678
Speaker 2: will wait till they get to the mound and they

1072
00:48:22,678 --> 00:48:24,718
Speaker 2: get talked out of maybe what they wanted to do.

1073
00:48:25,438 --> 00:48:28,318
Speaker 2: So if you you really, I think as a manager,

1074
00:48:28,718 --> 00:48:30,798
Speaker 2: unless you go out there intentionally because you do want

1075
00:48:30,798 --> 00:48:33,038
Speaker 2: to talk to which I learned not to do. The

1076
00:48:33,118 --> 00:48:35,398
Speaker 2: last time I think I did that just to talk

1077
00:48:35,438 --> 00:48:38,158
Speaker 2: to them was in Baltimore when Jeff Nemo was pitching

1078
00:48:38,198 --> 00:48:39,438
Speaker 2: and went out there to pump them up.

1079
00:48:39,598 --> 00:48:41,638
Speaker 3: The next pitch was a grand slam. So that taught

1080
00:48:41,678 --> 00:48:42,278
Speaker 3: me a lesson.

1081
00:48:42,598 --> 00:48:44,718
Speaker 2: So you make the sign to the bullpen, to the

1082
00:48:44,798 --> 00:48:47,678
Speaker 2: umpire before you cross the line, don't go out there.

1083
00:48:48,118 --> 00:48:50,278
Speaker 2: And because all these guys like I saw sures Er

1084
00:48:50,318 --> 00:48:54,038
Speaker 2: do it the other night with Snyder in Toronto, and

1085
00:48:54,278 --> 00:48:56,238
Speaker 2: I was sitting there with Wendy, I said, don't do it.

1086
00:48:56,278 --> 00:48:57,758
Speaker 3: And then they leave them in the game. Poom.

1087
00:48:57,958 --> 00:48:59,878
Speaker 2: I think the ball went off the wall on the

1088
00:48:59,918 --> 00:49:02,758
Speaker 2: next pitch. So make up your mind, stick with it.

1089
00:49:03,078 --> 00:49:05,238
Speaker 2: That's what you're paid to do. If you really want

1090
00:49:05,238 --> 00:49:07,558
Speaker 2: to have a conversation, that's different. But if you want,

1091
00:49:07,838 --> 00:49:09,318
Speaker 2: if you really believe it's the right thing to do,

1092
00:49:09,478 --> 00:49:11,078
Speaker 2: make the sign before you cross the line.

1093
00:49:11,078 --> 00:49:14,598
Speaker 1: Great stuff, Joe, and great time of year. A season

1094
00:49:14,678 --> 00:49:16,478
Speaker 1: is coming to a close, and the best part is

1095
00:49:16,598 --> 00:49:19,398
Speaker 1: right around the corner. The next time we talk, we're

1096
00:49:19,398 --> 00:49:22,398
Speaker 1: gonna give our fans and the listeners the best possible

1097
00:49:22,438 --> 00:49:25,278
Speaker 1: break down you can possibly think of when it comes

1098
00:49:25,278 --> 00:49:28,558
Speaker 1: to these postseason matchups, beginning with the Wildcard round starting

1099
00:49:28,598 --> 00:49:31,478
Speaker 1: next Tuesday. We will be all over it. You'll get

1100
00:49:31,478 --> 00:49:34,518
Speaker 1: the insight here on those matchups that you can't get

1101
00:49:34,798 --> 00:49:37,318
Speaker 1: anywhere else. Great job, Joe. We'll see you next time

1102
00:49:37,478 --> 00:49:37,998
Speaker 1: on the Book of.

1103
00:49:38,038 --> 00:49:47,198
Speaker 2: Joe too, Tommy looking forward to it, buddy.

1104
00:49:47,958 --> 00:49:51,158
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1105
00:49:51,398 --> 00:49:56,358
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1106
00:49:56,478 --> 00:49:58,278
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.