Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. I'm here with Patrick Pone.
Speaker 2: He's chairman and CEO of Total Energies. And the amazing
Speaker 2: thing about Total it's a European energy company, but it
Speaker 2: uses its money from oil and gas to do stuff
Speaker 2: in power and alternative energy. That's a model that not
Speaker 2: a lot of other companies actually subscribe by. So it's
Speaker 2: great to get your perspective. Patrick, Thank you so much
Speaker 2: for joining me.
Speaker 3: Thank you for welcoming me.
Speaker 1: News of the day.
Speaker 2: We just heard that we have emergency electricity issue in
Speaker 2: the United States. President Trump is now declaring fifty percent tariffs.
Speaker 2: I'm stealing aluminum imports from Canada.
Speaker 1: Your reaction to a trade war, I think it's.
Speaker 4: That I think these wars should I hope it's really
Speaker 4: head quickly. I think it's better not to have wars,
Speaker 4: to be honest. Maybe it's a tactic to nego sheet
Speaker 4: and I.
Speaker 3: Think honestly, there are orders.
Speaker 4: Economies are interconnected in facing in North America, you know,
Speaker 4: in many ways or cars or parts, et cetera, including
Speaker 4: by the way electricity. You know, of course you're the
Speaker 4: northeast of the US are receiving electricity from the idea
Speaker 4: of Canada for the benefit of the citizens. So there
Speaker 4: are a lot of issues I understand also about drugs, migrations.
Speaker 3: It's not only about trade.
Speaker 4: So my view is that as a global company, it's
Speaker 4: better to hope if you will take be solved quickly.
Speaker 4: That's all what I can hope in the benefit of
Speaker 4: all the parties. And like it was for Trump one,
Speaker 4: I remember it was a debate at the end. Maybe
Speaker 4: the shortest would be the better for everybody, including by
Speaker 4: the way, for the US economy.
Speaker 2: Does it make you think two or three times about
Speaker 2: investing in the United States?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 4: No, because I'm an energy company. Energy you have it's
Speaker 4: a nice country for energy. You have the cheapest gas,
Speaker 4: you have oil. We can explore, we can develop in
Speaker 4: the electricity. Booming market of electricity. You need more electricity.
Speaker 4: It's gonna cost more now now, Yeah, but it's good
Speaker 4: to We can build gas plans, cheap gas gas five
Speaker 4: poor plants we are building also in Texas. We're in
Speaker 4: Texas today. I have five gigabets or solar plants.
Speaker 3: It was easy to build because we have a lot
Speaker 3: of space.
Speaker 4: Combining plants with greneway boards with gas plants, it's a
Speaker 4: nice way to produce more equicity.
Speaker 3: So for me, the US.
Speaker 4: Is a large market and we are ready to invest
Speaker 4: in the US.
Speaker 3: I understand that.
Speaker 4: The only point is that if we need to reshure,
Speaker 4: for example, all the solar panels that we use on
Speaker 4: our neway board fields, why not.
Speaker 3: It's just a little more.
Speaker 4: Expensive, so the customers will have to pay somewhere, not you.
Speaker 1: But the end market.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, but then let's just tackle say offshore win
Speaker 2: for a second shot.
Speaker 3: I put it on a poolse.
Speaker 1: A pause or like the garbage pine.
Speaker 3: No, not garbage pause.
Speaker 4: We got a concession for fifty years, okay, So I
Speaker 4: understand during the next four years, no way to obtain
Speaker 4: any federal license. So I don't want to spend my
Speaker 4: time to lose my time my team, so I don't
Speaker 4: need to spend paid money to spend money for that.
Speaker 4: So we say no, we put a pools, we have
Speaker 4: reduced our teams to minimum, and then for years we'll
Speaker 4: see if federal gold policies are changed.
Speaker 2: Are you worried about any existing leases that you currently
Speaker 2: have and operating for wind and solar?
Speaker 1: I was talking to the Secretary of the Interior who
Speaker 1: didn't who didn't rule that out? To do what to
Speaker 1: take away those leases?
Speaker 3: To take away the leases.
Speaker 4: But the leazes, you can manage that on federal lands,
Speaker 4: so I check. I have no leazies on federal lands.
Speaker 4: So and by the way, in Texas there is no
Speaker 4: federal lands or most.
Speaker 3: So no that we make. We make our due diligence,
Speaker 3: So we are fine, okay.
Speaker 4: And I think honestly when I discussed, by the way,
Speaker 4: LUNDMSK is a big fan of solar and batteries for
Speaker 4: good reasons, so I think, and we will see the debate.
Speaker 4: I trans choose the debate the Congress and the Senate
Speaker 4: would be interesting with the reconciliation.
Speaker 3: Bill, so that's clue.
Speaker 4: But for the time, I mean, we will wait to
Speaker 4: see what are the new fiscal conditions to develop solar
Speaker 4: in the US. But you know there are a lot
Speaker 4: of red states where we develop new way bores. And
Speaker 4: again what the priority for Trump administration. We want more electricity,
Speaker 4: for AI, for data centers, it's all of the above.
Speaker 3: More electricity is gas.
Speaker 4: It could be nuclear, but it could be also when
Speaker 4: you were boards with batteries.
Speaker 3: So I'm optimistic. I think at the end, common sense
Speaker 3: in the US.
Speaker 4: But observed at the end, business interests are always respected
Speaker 4: and you have a fundamentally, Trumps is very business friendly,
Speaker 4: so why not for energy, which is the core of
Speaker 4: all the program for golf.
Speaker 3: Okay, so I'm optimistic.
Speaker 2: Globally though, I mean, we're looking at starts taking a hit.
Speaker 1: The sentiment's not great. They are worries about.
Speaker 2: Recession, either in the US or elsewhere because of terrors.
Speaker 1: Are using any indication of that?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: But what because you know what people ate, it's uncertainty.
Speaker 4: What has been created is uncertainty.
Speaker 3: We've all these started for us. So suddenly we don't
Speaker 3: like the markets. The stock markets do not like, but
Speaker 3: we don't know what we go.
Speaker 4: So putting the carros is a nice way to negotiate.
Speaker 4: I can use it myself from time to time.
Speaker 3: The biggest I'm.
Speaker 4: Not sure obtaining the good reserve, but short coutts please,
Speaker 4: that's all. But the markets are saying to the administration
Speaker 4: we don't like uncertainty.
Speaker 3: We are changing the world. Where do we go?
Speaker 4: So I think the shortest will be the better for
Speaker 4: all the inter US, including fundamentally for the US economy.
Speaker 4: And I'm sure at President from Trump and his administration
Speaker 4: are very led by the un lf US economy which
Speaker 4: was not too bad in fact, so stuff is uncertainty.
Speaker 3: But I think the best thing to.
Speaker 4: Do in order to avoidization and things, which honestly is
Speaker 4: the US economy should.
Speaker 2: Not get again now globally for China, for example, China
Speaker 2: puts a tear up on US energy that does directly
Speaker 2: impact your business. You're a huge gas and energy trader,
Speaker 2: so it does not impact.
Speaker 4: I will tell you what, because the Chinese are smart
Speaker 4: if they choose that product is because it has a
Speaker 4: little impact. Because in fact, a company like Total we
Speaker 4: produce energy fourty million tons in twelve countries. So yes,
Speaker 4: my energy from the US will not go to China
Speaker 4: because there is a tariff, but I will use the
Speaker 4: energy from ketor from Australia to go to China. So
Speaker 4: in fact we made the analysis. The impact on China
Speaker 4: is very minimum, almost nothing.
Speaker 3: And for you, honestly, today for.
Speaker 4: US we are the largest exporter of US energy more
Speaker 4: than Telemyton's. Our primary market is more Europe today, so
Speaker 4: we are so we bring recent Europe, which is fitting
Speaker 4: by the way, effect exactly with the Trump administration policy
Speaker 4: to expand the business, the trade or to the trade
Speaker 4: with Europe food, energy and in particular energy.
Speaker 2: What happens though, if there's peace in Ukraine and Europe
Speaker 2: starts buying Russian gas more.
Speaker 3: We'll see. First we need to have peace Segle.
Speaker 4: We need to see if Europeans will buy more Russian gas, any.
Speaker 1: Indication that they might from here.
Speaker 4: Where you sait, I think you know, it's not an
Speaker 4: easy It will be a debate between economy and geopolitics. Economically,
Speaker 4: for sure, Russian gas is cheaper, so it was part
Speaker 4: of the competitiveness of the German industry. Politically, I think
Speaker 4: is still will be a big debate to see if.
Speaker 3: We take back some gas.
Speaker 4: Yes we'll take some Russian gas, but surely not at
Speaker 4: the same level before the war. The other dependency from
Speaker 4: Europe to the Russian gas. I think this ere is over,
Speaker 4: we will be in between. Will not be zero, it
Speaker 4: will not be one of the fifty bcm per year,
Speaker 4: maybe half of it eighty And so that means that
Speaker 4: still we will need more energy after the peace when
Speaker 4: we were using energy.
Speaker 3: Before the war. So for the US energy it is
Speaker 3: a going market.
Speaker 2: And also you have Germany that's trying to pass money
Speaker 2: to be able to rearm and reindustrialize. What kind of
Speaker 2: demand you like, what's your opportunity set there if that
Speaker 2: really comes to pass.
Speaker 4: But I think Germany is a very strong market for us.
Speaker 4: We love it because the Germans in anexicity. I've decided
Speaker 4: to get a non nuclear get off of course, so
Speaker 4: it will be a mix of gas plants. We need
Speaker 4: to build a twenty GigE out of gas for appretments
Speaker 4: and renewables exactly of strategy. So there is for We
Speaker 4: have invested in the last two years strongly in Germany
Speaker 4: to build what we call our integrated power business. So
Speaker 4: I think, yeah, Germany, and it's true as well, but
Speaker 4: we need to gain this hers.
Speaker 3: We need to produce more weapons.
Speaker 4: In Europe for sure, in order to be more independent somewhere.
Speaker 4: And because a message from the US is clear we
Speaker 4: need to take ourselves of future in our hands. So
Speaker 4: that's good for globally, for the economy, in the industry.
Speaker 2: So what's on your m and A list right now? Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're going to buy something for that.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of opportunity.
Speaker 4: First, we have a huge organic growth. I have five
Speaker 4: percent in front of me for the next five years.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 4: We have been clear that we want to in particular
Speaker 4: to build a larger gas business production business in the US.
Speaker 4: So we made so many ideas last year. Maybe there
Speaker 4: is more to come because I need to increase my
Speaker 4: gas production in the US.
Speaker 1: But boltons or bigger deals.
Speaker 3: Boltons is fine.
Speaker 4: It depends opportunities, some matter of to make good m
Speaker 4: n as. It's good to become a cyclic or so
Speaker 4: I will not announce that today to you.
Speaker 1: Over four dollars. Next time I need to, I have
Speaker 1: to wait. Okay, I get that.
Speaker 2: Is this also a good time to get out of
Speaker 2: certain assets that aren't working for you? Say, is Bacomwerta
Speaker 2: maybe on the list?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: We Last year one of our peers has done a
Speaker 4: very good deal. You know Argentina, we have the strongest
Speaker 4: gas producer in Argentina.
Speaker 3: We have also some share all.
Speaker 4: We are not very keen to develop the share all
Speaker 4: for different reasons. And so last year one of our
Speaker 4: piers has done a very good MNA. So yes, I'm
Speaker 4: ready to at the same price when one of our colleagues,
Speaker 4: I'm ready to divest my share old produce license in
Speaker 4: Argentina as part of the divestments.
Speaker 1: But you know we have been getting close to that
Speaker 1: or not.
Speaker 3: I don't know. We have processes.
Speaker 2: Wells, let's go to one other area that I want
Speaker 2: to make some news. So Mozambique, El Gee. I know
Speaker 2: you've been working very very hard on that project. To
Speaker 2: get it restarted. You need approval reapproval from the US
Speaker 2: Import Export Bank for a four point seven billion dollar loan.
Speaker 1: Has that gone?
Speaker 4: I think it's for US in first this was approved
Speaker 4: under Trump one administration.
Speaker 3: So it's a contract which has been signed. I just
Speaker 3: would like to remember.
Speaker 4: And I believe in all of roow fundamentally the contract exists.
Speaker 4: What happens is that in twenty one we had to
Speaker 4: declare force measure because there was some security events. We
Speaker 4: had to stop the and so it's just a matter
Speaker 4: to amend this contract to put a new completion date
Speaker 4: in twenty thirty to reflect the fact that between twenty
Speaker 4: one and twenty four we are forced to stop.
Speaker 3: That's what we want to be amendment. So it's not
Speaker 3: a big amendment. You know the debate. I think now
Speaker 3: you have a functional USXEM.
Speaker 4: President Trump has decided to put in place a new board.
Speaker 3: So we'll see, but I'm optimistic that.
Speaker 1: Years, days, hours month.
Speaker 4: Okay, I don't know, but fundamentally I think honestly, there
Speaker 4: is no more debate with his administration. The mandate of
Speaker 4: USXIB is to be neutral in terms of support. In fact,
Speaker 4: why USXM is supporting us because most of the contracts
Speaker 4: have been awarded to US companies, US contractors. This project
Speaker 4: represents sixteen thousand jobs in the US. That's why USXM
Speaker 4: is supporting it. We're inegleting the project from Manadako. We
Speaker 4: are not a US company, but we kept all the
Speaker 4: US contractors and that is the driver behind which supports USXEM.
Speaker 4: It's not total energy, it's fundamentally the support of USXEM
Speaker 4: is an export credit supporting the fact. But we have
Speaker 4: awarded more than forty percent of the contract to US contractors,
Speaker 4: which are all asking me please restart because we have
Speaker 4: the jobs, and they have written to all their congressmen,
Speaker 4: to all their This is for what. This is the
Speaker 4: reason why we can be also pro US industry when
Speaker 4: we invest abroad, when we give jobs to US companies,
Speaker 4: And this is the reason why I think USXEM will
Speaker 4: honor his word for simple reason. It's not because it's energy.
Speaker 4: It's just because it's us jobs. That's the fundamental reasons.
Speaker 2: That's a good pat to You're one hundred percent component
Speaker 2: that might is going to come your way.
Speaker 3: Yeah percent companies to send to that.
Speaker 2: Patrick, it's a real pleasure. I love speaking with you.
Speaker 2: Thank you so very much for joining me. I really
Speaker 2: appreciate it. Package and a chairman and CEO of Hotel
Speaker 2: Energies