WEBVTT - TotalEnergies CEO Patrick Pouyanné Talks Tariffs, US Investing

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. I'm here with Patrick Pone.

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<v Speaker 2>He's chairman and CEO of Total Energies. And the amazing

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<v Speaker 2>thing about Total it's a European energy company, but it

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<v Speaker 2>uses its money from oil and gas to do stuff

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<v Speaker 2>in power and alternative energy. That's a model that not

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of other companies actually subscribe by. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>great to get your perspective. Patrick, Thank you so much

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<v Speaker 2>for joining me.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you for welcoming me.

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<v Speaker 1>News of the day.

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<v Speaker 2>We just heard that we have emergency electricity issue in

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<v Speaker 2>the United States. President Trump is now declaring fifty percent tariffs.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm stealing aluminum imports from Canada.

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<v Speaker 1>Your reaction to a trade war, I think it's.

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<v Speaker 4>That I think these wars should I hope it's really

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<v Speaker 4>head quickly. I think it's better not to have wars,

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<v Speaker 4>to be honest. Maybe it's a tactic to nego sheet

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<v Speaker 4>and I.

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<v Speaker 3>Think honestly, there are orders.

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<v Speaker 4>Economies are interconnected in facing in North America, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>in many ways or cars or parts, et cetera, including

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<v Speaker 4>by the way electricity. You know, of course you're the

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<v Speaker 4>northeast of the US are receiving electricity from the idea

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<v Speaker 4>of Canada for the benefit of the citizens. So there

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<v Speaker 4>are a lot of issues I understand also about drugs, migrations.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not only about trade.

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<v Speaker 4>So my view is that as a global company, it's

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<v Speaker 4>better to hope if you will take be solved quickly.

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<v Speaker 4>That's all what I can hope in the benefit of

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<v Speaker 4>all the parties. And like it was for Trump one,

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<v Speaker 4>I remember it was a debate at the end. Maybe

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<v Speaker 4>the shortest would be the better for everybody, including by

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<v Speaker 4>the way, for the US economy.

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<v Speaker 2>Does it make you think two or three times about

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<v Speaker 2>investing in the United States?

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<v Speaker 3>No?

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<v Speaker 4>No, because I'm an energy company. Energy you have it's

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<v Speaker 4>a nice country for energy. You have the cheapest gas,

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<v Speaker 4>you have oil. We can explore, we can develop in

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<v Speaker 4>the electricity. Booming market of electricity. You need more electricity.

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<v Speaker 4>It's gonna cost more now now, Yeah, but it's good

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<v Speaker 4>to We can build gas plans, cheap gas gas five

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<v Speaker 4>poor plants we are building also in Texas. We're in

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<v Speaker 4>Texas today. I have five gigabets or solar plants.

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<v Speaker 3>It was easy to build because we have a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of space.

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<v Speaker 4>Combining plants with greneway boards with gas plants, it's a

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<v Speaker 4>nice way to produce more equicity.

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<v Speaker 3>So for me, the US.

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<v Speaker 4>Is a large market and we are ready to invest

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<v Speaker 4>in the US.

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<v Speaker 3>I understand that.

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<v Speaker 4>The only point is that if we need to reshure,

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<v Speaker 4>for example, all the solar panels that we use on

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<v Speaker 4>our neway board fields, why not.

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<v Speaker 3>It's just a little more.

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<v Speaker 4>Expensive, so the customers will have to pay somewhere, not you.

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<v Speaker 1>But the end market.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, but then let's just tackle say offshore win

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<v Speaker 2>for a second shot.

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<v Speaker 3>I put it on a poolse.

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<v Speaker 1>A pause or like the garbage pine.

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<v Speaker 3>No, not garbage pause.

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<v Speaker 4>We got a concession for fifty years, okay, So I

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<v Speaker 4>understand during the next four years, no way to obtain

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<v Speaker 4>any federal license. So I don't want to spend my

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<v Speaker 4>time to lose my time my team, so I don't

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<v Speaker 4>need to spend paid money to spend money for that.

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<v Speaker 4>So we say no, we put a pools, we have

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<v Speaker 4>reduced our teams to minimum, and then for years we'll

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<v Speaker 4>see if federal gold policies are changed.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you worried about any existing leases that you currently

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<v Speaker 2>have and operating for wind and solar?

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<v Speaker 1>I was talking to the Secretary of the Interior who

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<v Speaker 1>didn't who didn't rule that out? To do what to

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<v Speaker 1>take away those leases?

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<v Speaker 3>To take away the leases.

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<v Speaker 4>But the leazes, you can manage that on federal lands,

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<v Speaker 4>so I check. I have no leazies on federal lands.

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<v Speaker 4>So and by the way, in Texas there is no

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<v Speaker 4>federal lands or most.

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<v Speaker 3>So no that we make. We make our due diligence,

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<v Speaker 3>So we are fine, okay.

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<v Speaker 4>And I think honestly when I discussed, by the way,

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<v Speaker 4>LUNDMSK is a big fan of solar and batteries for

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<v Speaker 4>good reasons, so I think, and we will see the debate.

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<v Speaker 4>I trans choose the debate the Congress and the Senate

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<v Speaker 4>would be interesting with the reconciliation.

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<v Speaker 3>Bill, so that's clue.

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<v Speaker 4>But for the time, I mean, we will wait to

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<v Speaker 4>see what are the new fiscal conditions to develop solar

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<v Speaker 4>in the US. But you know there are a lot

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<v Speaker 4>of red states where we develop new way bores. And

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<v Speaker 4>again what the priority for Trump administration. We want more electricity,

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<v Speaker 4>for AI, for data centers, it's all of the above.

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<v Speaker 3>More electricity is gas.

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<v Speaker 4>It could be nuclear, but it could be also when

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<v Speaker 4>you were boards with batteries.

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<v Speaker 3>So I'm optimistic. I think at the end, common sense

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<v Speaker 3>in the US.

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<v Speaker 4>But observed at the end, business interests are always respected

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<v Speaker 4>and you have a fundamentally, Trumps is very business friendly,

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<v Speaker 4>so why not for energy, which is the core of

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<v Speaker 4>all the program for golf.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, so I'm optimistic.

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<v Speaker 2>Globally though, I mean, we're looking at starts taking a hit.

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<v Speaker 1>The sentiment's not great. They are worries about.

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<v Speaker 2>Recession, either in the US or elsewhere because of terrors.

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<v Speaker 1>Are using any indication of that?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 4>But what because you know what people ate, it's uncertainty.

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<v Speaker 4>What has been created is uncertainty.

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<v Speaker 3>We've all these started for us. So suddenly we don't

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<v Speaker 3>like the markets. The stock markets do not like, but

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<v Speaker 3>we don't know what we go.

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<v Speaker 4>So putting the carros is a nice way to negotiate.

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<v Speaker 4>I can use it myself from time to time.

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<v Speaker 3>The biggest I'm.

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<v Speaker 4>Not sure obtaining the good reserve, but short coutts please,

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<v Speaker 4>that's all. But the markets are saying to the administration

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<v Speaker 4>we don't like uncertainty.

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<v Speaker 3>We are changing the world. Where do we go?

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<v Speaker 4>So I think the shortest will be the better for

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<v Speaker 4>all the inter US, including fundamentally for the US economy.

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<v Speaker 4>And I'm sure at President from Trump and his administration

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<v Speaker 4>are very led by the un lf US economy which

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<v Speaker 4>was not too bad in fact, so stuff is uncertainty.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think the best thing to.

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<v Speaker 4>Do in order to avoidization and things, which honestly is

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<v Speaker 4>the US economy should.

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<v Speaker 2>Not get again now globally for China, for example, China

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<v Speaker 2>puts a tear up on US energy that does directly

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<v Speaker 2>impact your business. You're a huge gas and energy trader,

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<v Speaker 2>so it does not impact.

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<v Speaker 4>I will tell you what, because the Chinese are smart

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<v Speaker 4>if they choose that product is because it has a

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<v Speaker 4>little impact. Because in fact, a company like Total we

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<v Speaker 4>produce energy fourty million tons in twelve countries. So yes,

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<v Speaker 4>my energy from the US will not go to China

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<v Speaker 4>because there is a tariff, but I will use the

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<v Speaker 4>energy from ketor from Australia to go to China. So

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<v Speaker 4>in fact we made the analysis. The impact on China

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<v Speaker 4>is very minimum, almost nothing.

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<v Speaker 3>And for you, honestly, today for.

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<v Speaker 4>US we are the largest exporter of US energy more

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<v Speaker 4>than Telemyton's. Our primary market is more Europe today, so

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<v Speaker 4>we are so we bring recent Europe, which is fitting

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<v Speaker 4>by the way, effect exactly with the Trump administration policy

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<v Speaker 4>to expand the business, the trade or to the trade

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<v Speaker 4>with Europe food, energy and in particular energy.

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<v Speaker 2>What happens though, if there's peace in Ukraine and Europe

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<v Speaker 2>starts buying Russian gas more.

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<v Speaker 3>We'll see. First we need to have peace Segle.

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<v Speaker 4>We need to see if Europeans will buy more Russian gas, any.

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<v Speaker 1>Indication that they might from here.

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<v Speaker 4>Where you sait, I think you know, it's not an

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<v Speaker 4>easy It will be a debate between economy and geopolitics. Economically,

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<v Speaker 4>for sure, Russian gas is cheaper, so it was part

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<v Speaker 4>of the competitiveness of the German industry. Politically, I think

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<v Speaker 4>is still will be a big debate to see if.

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<v Speaker 3>We take back some gas.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes we'll take some Russian gas, but surely not at

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<v Speaker 4>the same level before the war. The other dependency from

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<v Speaker 4>Europe to the Russian gas. I think this ere is over,

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<v Speaker 4>we will be in between. Will not be zero, it

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<v Speaker 4>will not be one of the fifty bcm per year,

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<v Speaker 4>maybe half of it eighty And so that means that

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<v Speaker 4>still we will need more energy after the peace when

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<v Speaker 4>we were using energy.

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<v Speaker 3>Before the war. So for the US energy it is

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<v Speaker 3>a going market.

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<v Speaker 2>And also you have Germany that's trying to pass money

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<v Speaker 2>to be able to rearm and reindustrialize. What kind of

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<v Speaker 2>demand you like, what's your opportunity set there if that

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<v Speaker 2>really comes to pass.

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<v Speaker 4>But I think Germany is a very strong market for us.

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<v Speaker 4>We love it because the Germans in anexicity. I've decided

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<v Speaker 4>to get a non nuclear get off of course, so

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<v Speaker 4>it will be a mix of gas plants. We need

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<v Speaker 4>to build a twenty GigE out of gas for appretments

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<v Speaker 4>and renewables exactly of strategy. So there is for We

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<v Speaker 4>have invested in the last two years strongly in Germany

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<v Speaker 4>to build what we call our integrated power business. So

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<v Speaker 4>I think, yeah, Germany, and it's true as well, but

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<v Speaker 4>we need to gain this hers.

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<v Speaker 3>We need to produce more weapons.

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<v Speaker 4>In Europe for sure, in order to be more independent somewhere.

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<v Speaker 4>And because a message from the US is clear we

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<v Speaker 4>need to take ourselves of future in our hands. So

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<v Speaker 4>that's good for globally, for the economy, in the industry.

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<v Speaker 2>So what's on your m and A list right now? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you're going to buy something for that.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a lot of opportunity.

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<v Speaker 4>First, we have a huge organic growth. I have five

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<v Speaker 4>percent in front of me for the next five years.

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<v Speaker 3>Now.

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<v Speaker 4>We have been clear that we want to in particular

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<v Speaker 4>to build a larger gas business production business in the US.

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<v Speaker 4>So we made so many ideas last year. Maybe there

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<v Speaker 4>is more to come because I need to increase my

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<v Speaker 4>gas production in the US.

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<v Speaker 1>But boltons or bigger deals.

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<v Speaker 3>Boltons is fine.

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<v Speaker 4>It depends opportunities, some matter of to make good m

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<v Speaker 4>n as. It's good to become a cyclic or so

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<v Speaker 4>I will not announce that today to you.

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<v Speaker 1>Over four dollars. Next time I need to, I have

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<v Speaker 1>to wait. Okay, I get that.

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<v Speaker 2>Is this also a good time to get out of

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<v Speaker 2>certain assets that aren't working for you? Say, is Bacomwerta

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<v Speaker 2>maybe on the list?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 4>We Last year one of our peers has done a

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<v Speaker 4>very good deal. You know Argentina, we have the strongest

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<v Speaker 4>gas producer in Argentina.

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<v Speaker 3>We have also some share all.

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<v Speaker 4>We are not very keen to develop the share all

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<v Speaker 4>for different reasons. And so last year one of our

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<v Speaker 4>piers has done a very good MNA. So yes, I'm

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<v Speaker 4>ready to at the same price when one of our colleagues,

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<v Speaker 4>I'm ready to divest my share old produce license in

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<v Speaker 4>Argentina as part of the divestments.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know we have been getting close to that

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<v Speaker 1>or not.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know. We have processes.

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<v Speaker 2>Wells, let's go to one other area that I want

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<v Speaker 2>to make some news. So Mozambique, El Gee. I know

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<v Speaker 2>you've been working very very hard on that project. To

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<v Speaker 2>get it restarted. You need approval reapproval from the US

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<v Speaker 2>Import Export Bank for a four point seven billion dollar loan.

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<v Speaker 1>Has that gone?

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<v Speaker 4>I think it's for US in first this was approved

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<v Speaker 4>under Trump one administration.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's a contract which has been signed. I just

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<v Speaker 3>would like to remember.

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<v Speaker 4>And I believe in all of roow fundamentally the contract exists.

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<v Speaker 4>What happens is that in twenty one we had to

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<v Speaker 4>declare force measure because there was some security events. We

0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:19.320
<v Speaker 4>had to stop the and so it's just a matter

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<v Speaker 4>to amend this contract to put a new completion date

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<v Speaker 4>in twenty thirty to reflect the fact that between twenty

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<v Speaker 4>one and twenty four we are forced to stop.

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<v Speaker 3>That's what we want to be amendment. So it's not

0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:32.839
<v Speaker 3>a big amendment. You know the debate. I think now

0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:34.800
<v Speaker 3>you have a functional USXEM.

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<v Speaker 4>President Trump has decided to put in place a new board.

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<v Speaker 3>So we'll see, but I'm optimistic that.

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<v Speaker 1>Years, days, hours month.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, I don't know, but fundamentally I think honestly, there

0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:52.719
<v Speaker 4>is no more debate with his administration. The mandate of

0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.040
<v Speaker 4>USXIB is to be neutral in terms of support. In fact,

0:10:56.040 --> 0:11:00.000
<v Speaker 4>why USXM is supporting us because most of the contracts

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<v Speaker 4>have been awarded to US companies, US contractors. This project

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<v Speaker 4>represents sixteen thousand jobs in the US. That's why USXM

0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:11.000
<v Speaker 4>is supporting it. We're inegleting the project from Manadako. We

0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:13.400
<v Speaker 4>are not a US company, but we kept all the

0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:17.800
<v Speaker 4>US contractors and that is the driver behind which supports USXEM.

0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:21.240
<v Speaker 4>It's not total energy, it's fundamentally the support of USXEM

0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.319
<v Speaker 4>is an export credit supporting the fact. But we have

0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:28.800
<v Speaker 4>awarded more than forty percent of the contract to US contractors,

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<v Speaker 4>which are all asking me please restart because we have

0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.080
<v Speaker 4>the jobs, and they have written to all their congressmen,

0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:37.640
<v Speaker 4>to all their This is for what. This is the

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<v Speaker 4>reason why we can be also pro US industry when

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<v Speaker 4>we invest abroad, when we give jobs to US companies,

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<v Speaker 4>And this is the reason why I think USXEM will

0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:51.559
<v Speaker 4>honor his word for simple reason. It's not because it's energy.

0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.840
<v Speaker 4>It's just because it's us jobs. That's the fundamental reasons.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a good pat to You're one hundred percent component

0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:57.760
<v Speaker 2>that might is going to come your way.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah percent companies to send to that.

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<v Speaker 2>Patrick, it's a real pleasure. I love speaking with you.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so very much for joining me. I really

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<v Speaker 2>appreciate it. Package and a chairman and CEO of Hotel

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<v Speaker 2>Energies