1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: You're listening to Disinformed, a mini series from There Are 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: No Girls on the Internet. I'm Bridget Todd. On January six, 3 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: I watched in horror as white supremacist Trump supporters attacked 4 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 1: the Capitol. I also live in d C, so they 5 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: were attacking my city, in my hometown, my community. But 6 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: for me, this story doesn't start on January six. I 7 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: want to take you all back to after running a 8 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,279 Speaker 1: campaign full of lies, distortions, and conspiracy theories, Trump had 9 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: just been elected to be our next president. The mood 10 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: in d C, where I've lived for most of my 11 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: adult life, was pretty somber. In the days before Trump's inauguration, 12 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: my friends and I would sit around together, raging and 13 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: screaming and lamenting, and sometimes just sitting in complete silence 14 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: over drinks. I can't believe this means Trump will actually 15 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: be living in our city, we'd say over and over 16 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: again and utter disbelief. One day, I was supposed to 17 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: be meeting up with a friend and she was late, 18 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: which was not at all like her. When she finally arrived, 19 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: I could not believe what had prevented her from being 20 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: on time. She was killing time before meeting me browsing 21 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: in a store when a man with a gun came 22 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: into a nearby pizza place and she couldn't leave. Someone 23 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: said it had something to do with child trafficking in 24 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: the internet, she explained. Last weekend, as people were dining 25 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: inside here, a twenty eight year old man turned up 26 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: armed with an assault rifle too, as he puts it 27 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: self investigate what police have called a fictitious online conspiracy theory. 28 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: So the violent attacks at the Capitol weren't the first 29 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: time conspiracy theories running up online had unleashed chaos and 30 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: terror on my city. This was Pizza Gate, a completely 31 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: untrue conspiracy theory that Democratic leaders including Hillary Clinton and 32 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,639 Speaker 1: John Podesta were secretly pedophiles who traffic children for sex 33 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: code word pizza, and this whole vast network was supposedly 34 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: housed in the basement of Comet Ping Pong, a local 35 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: DC pizza restaurant. This conspiracy spread grew and mutated on 36 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,119 Speaker 1: Reddit and Fortune until a man traveled from North Carolina 37 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: to DC to investigate the restaurant himself with a gun. 38 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: And this was really the first time I saw how 39 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: dangerous conspiracy theories unchecked false stories and media manipulation can 40 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: be online, and that even though they may start online, 41 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: they could end in real world dangerous situations like the 42 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: attack we saw in the Capital earlier this month. Now, disinformation, misinformation, 43 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: online harassment, and conspiracy theories are obviously nothing new, but 44 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: in many ways, I saw Trump and his supporters weaponize 45 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 1: them for political gain and welcome them into our institutions 46 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: in ways I had never seen before. It's pretty easy 47 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: to see the ways that disinformation is political, especially when 48 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: our president invites his supporters to have a wild time 49 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: at the Capitol in support of the lie that he 50 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 1: won the election. But it's also personal because it relies 51 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: on people not being able to trust one another. And 52 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: this is something I know a little bit about. I 53 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: lost my best friend into conspiracy theories and misinformation. I 54 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: met Joe not his real name, in college in North 55 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: Carolina when I was nineteen. Back then, we were just 56 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: two friends who really cared about politics. I was a 57 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,679 Speaker 1: stride and young lefty who would tell anyone who would 58 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: listen about it. I was fresh from a small town 59 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: on a college campus for the first time, and I 60 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: felt like I was being welcomed into the marketplace of ideas. 61 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: Whatever that means whatever I was nineteen, Joe and I 62 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: connected over spirited conversations about our still forming ideologies, and 63 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 1: we stayed close friends after I graduated college and moved 64 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: to d C. But in or one, spirited debates took 65 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: a new turn. Rather than talking about policies or positions, 66 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: Joe was talking about things that were truly out there. 67 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton is using a body double and probably only 68 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: has a few weeks to live. He once texted me 69 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: out of the blue. At the height of the election, 70 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: our mutual friends would start group chat about the things 71 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: he was posting to Facebook. He cannot be serious with 72 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: this stuff. I remember texting, and I remember the last off. 73 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: I was attending the Democratic National Convention in Philly. Am 74 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: I phonding, how can you vote for Hillary Clinton? Even 75 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: after she had Seth Rich killed. Seth Rich was a 76 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: Democratic National Committee staffer in d C. I didn't know him, 77 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: but our circles were close enough that his death really 78 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: hit home. Seth was shot and killed on July in 79 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 1: the Bloomingdale neighborhood of d C. His killers were never found. 80 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: The most likely explanation seems to be a mugging gone bad, 81 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 1: but according to the right wing conspiracy theory machine, Hillary 82 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: Clinton had Seth Rich killed in retaliation for leaking d 83 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: n C emails to Wiki Leaks. Now, even though there's 84 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: no evidence has ever happened, it didn't stop the right 85 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: wing media from irresponsibly amplifying these baseless claims. In a 86 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: Washington Post op ed this week, Rich's parents called the 87 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: story baseless and pleaded with people to stop using our 88 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: beloved Seth's memory and legacy for their own political goals. Yesterday, 89 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 1: the story was taken down from the Fox News website. 90 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: Fueled by bogus Fox News reports from Sean Hannity, conspiracy 91 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: theories hounded Seth's grieving parents and anyone who supported them publicly, 92 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 1: when this family should have been able to grieve as 93 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 1: murder in peace they were instead of being attacked by 94 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: a right wing disinformation campaign. The entire thing was so 95 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: disgusting and dangerous, and here was my friend believing it, 96 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: spreading it. I think up until then I had been 97 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: able to tell myself that Joe was kind of have 98 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: kidding with these ideas. There's no way he actually believed 99 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 1: this garbage. I thought that people who believed conspiracy theories 100 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: were Fox News obsessed simpletons who were too stupid to 101 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: realize the ways they had been misled. Joe was educated. 102 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: We went to the same college. He had a great 103 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: white collar job and made good money. He voted for Obama. 104 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: He was in the cool music and knew about art 105 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 1: and film. Back that, I didn't really realize that any 106 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: of us could be taken by disinformation campaigns. I didn't 107 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: know how powerful it is, or how it spreads, or 108 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: what you could do if you're watching someone you love 109 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: be taken in by it, or had it from spreading 110 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 1: it yourself. Eventually, Joe and I lost touch. I just 111 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:05,919 Speaker 1: didn't know how to have them in my life. But 112 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 1: I wish I had known what to do or say 113 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: to help them off board from a steady diet of 114 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories. And I wish Joe had known how disinformation 115 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 1: disproportionately harms people from underrepresented backgrounds like me, because it 116 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: traffics and the worst biases about our identities and who 117 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: we are, exploiting and inflaming tensions, fears and fractures. And 118 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: I wish we had all known the impact that social 119 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: media platforms would have spreading disinformation and driving our country 120 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: further apart. Some people saw it coming and spoke up, 121 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: but very few people with power did anything at all 122 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: to curb its threat. I wish I had known a 123 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 1: lot of things back then, and that's part of the 124 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: reason why I'm making this podcast today. My work involves 125 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: training everyday people to curb the spread of disinformation online 126 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: and pressuring tech leaders to take action to keep dangerous disinformation, misinformation, harassment, 127 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: and violent rhetoric off their platforms. And I believe that's 128 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: a big reason why we're here still really in from 129 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: a violent attack on the capital by white supremacist Trump 130 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: supporters who believed the repeated false claim that Trump won 131 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: the election and that it was being unfairly stolen from him. 132 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: Disinformation is a racial justice and gender justice issue. Women, 133 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: communities of color, and other people from underrepresented backgrounds and 134 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: identities are the ones who are hit hardest by its impact. 135 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: But they're also the organizers, academics, and culture creators who 136 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: have been speaking up against the threat disinformation posts for years, 137 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: even while the people who had the power to make 138 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: a difference didn't seem to listen. And now they're the 139 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: same ones fighting back against the harm disinformation spreads and 140 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: working to inoculate the entire Internet against it. Undisinformed. We'll 141 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: hear their stories about how disinformation online got us here 142 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: and what we can all do to join the fight 143 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: to stop it. New episodes drop every Tuesday. Got a 144 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: story about an interesting thing in tech, or just want 145 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: to say hi, We'd love to hear from you at 146 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: Hello at tangoi dot com. Disinformed is brought to you 147 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: by There Are No Girls on the Ornet. It's a 148 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio and Unbust Creative Jonathan Strickland is 149 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: our executive producer. Tory Harrison is our supervising producer and engineer. 150 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: Michael Motto is our producer. I'm your host Bridget Todd. 151 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: For more great podcasts, check out the iHeart Radio app, 152 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.