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Speaker 1: Body bugs, but Joseph's gotten more. Over the course of

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Speaker 1: my career as a death investigator, I was part of

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Speaker 1: several national committees. I had to travel all over the country,

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Speaker 1: various meetings and that sort of thing, And of one

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Speaker 1: of my fondest memories was going to Michigan and teaching

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Speaker 1: a group of investigators there the National Standards for Medical

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Speaker 1: Legal death Investigation. And the spot chosen for that instruction

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Speaker 1: was a place that became one of my favorite towns,

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Speaker 1: certainly up north, and that's Grand Rapids, Michigan. I got

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Speaker 1: to tell you, if you've never been there, it is

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Speaker 1: a lovely, lovely place. I didn't expect it, and during

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Speaker 1: that period of time I appreciated, first off, the people

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Speaker 1: were and also how very cold it was at night.

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Speaker 1: Because I was up there in November. Wound up going

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Speaker 1: salmon fishing when I was there and almost drowned. But

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Speaker 1: that aside, I loved that location and I loved that place.

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Speaker 1: But today I've got a case I want to present

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Speaker 1: to you all that is, at least in my way

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Speaker 1: of thinking, it's one of the most horrible ways that

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Speaker 1: a person could die. It takes place just south of

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Speaker 1: Grand Rapids in the town of Kentwood, Michigan. I'm Joseph

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is body Backs. Over the course

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Speaker 1: of our marriage, Dave Kim and I have rented multiple

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Speaker 1: storage units over this period of time. They are unnecessary evil.

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Speaker 1: I think our house got destroyed by tornado and we

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Speaker 1: salvaged everything that we could and put it into storage.

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Speaker 1: And we've had to use them before as well because

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Speaker 1: we just can't can't, just can't seem to get rid

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Speaker 1: of chunk many times. And they certainly serve a purpose side,

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Speaker 1: but it's like when you go to one after you've

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Speaker 1: rented it. Every time you open the door to one

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Speaker 1: of these places, you don't know what you're going to

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Speaker 1: find inside, particularly as it applies to your property being

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Speaker 1: degraded in there. Maybe there was a leak, which have

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Speaker 1: we've had happened before, or maybe you smell something bad

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Speaker 1: in there, like a dead animal, which we have found

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Speaker 1: rats before. It's just there's something about them that puts

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Speaker 1: me off, and I think a lot of it has

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Speaker 1: to do with a labor that's involved. But I got

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Speaker 1: to tell you, Dave, when you go to storage unit,

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Speaker 1: one of the things you don't expect to find is

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Speaker 1: a dead person. And that's essentially what our case revolves

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Speaker 1: around today.

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Speaker 2: This story of the charred remains, that's the headline, charred

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Speaker 2: remains of woman found in padlocked storage unit, got it

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Speaker 2: by fire. My first thought, Joe, was how did you

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Speaker 2: get in there to get padlocked in? For starters? Second,

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Speaker 2: why didn't you call for anybody you know? And then

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Speaker 2: down the list? And it's only after reading this and

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Speaker 2: finding out that this I don't know if it was

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Speaker 2: a you know you mentioned Nancy says intent can be

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Speaker 2: formed in the Lincoln an eye. I don't know what

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Speaker 2: the intent was here. Was the intent to lock this

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Speaker 2: person in there and cause her death?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. And they're not they're not really spilling

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Speaker 1: the beans at this point. This this case is fresh.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it is a new case, and it caught

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Speaker 1: my eye because the proximity to Grand Rapids and the

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Speaker 1: bizarre nature of it. And that's why I wanted because

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Speaker 1: I think that there's a lot that we can kind

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Speaker 1: of discuss relative to the forensics here. But you know,

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Speaker 1: when we go out to assess an environment, first off,

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Speaker 1: fire environments or the remnant thereof you never know what

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Speaker 1: you're going to find. I can't tell you how many

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Speaker 1: times I've had friends. This has only happened to me once,

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Speaker 1: but I've had colleagues that have actually discovered other bodies

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Speaker 1: that they did not expect. One of the reasons is

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Speaker 1: is that when you walk into a fire scene, a

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Speaker 1: lot of the items that are in there all look

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Speaker 1: the same because you know, you're talking about fire, which

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Speaker 1: is this kind of living, breathing entity that's seeking to continue.

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Speaker 1: It's what fire is defined as an uninhibited chem reaction.

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Speaker 1: That means that there's nothing that's going to if anything

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Speaker 1: disrupts it. There's like four components that you're looking for

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Speaker 1: with fire, uh, in order to make it sustainable. If

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Speaker 1: any of those four points along continuum get disrupted in

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Speaker 1: any way, then the fire is not gonna you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not just going to simply burn itself out. You

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Speaker 1: have to have a starter, which is a heat source.

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Speaker 1: You have to have fuel, and then you have to

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Speaker 1: have a free supply of oxygen. Okay, so that's more

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Speaker 1: like three points along continuum. But you have to have

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Speaker 1: all of those elements to come into place to sustain fire.

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Speaker 1: And that's one of the things we look at, and

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Speaker 1: the fuel for something like this is not necessarily I

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Speaker 1: know that many people think, well, gasoline or some type

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Speaker 1: of petroleum agent is fuel. No, it's not. It's a starter,

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Speaker 1: or it's an accelerant, because you know when you burn

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Speaker 1: up gasoline, when you use that as an accelerant, it

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Speaker 1: burns up rather quickly, particularly in the gaseous form. But

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Speaker 1: what you're looking at as far as sustainable fuel, I mean,

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Speaker 1: think about the stuff that you've you've stored in your

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Speaker 1: in your storage units over the years. You think about

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you're like anything like we were

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Speaker 1: when we were really young. You didn't have handmade carved

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Speaker 1: mahogany furniture. You had stuff made out of press board, uh,

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Speaker 1: really bad fabrics on the coverings. Then you had pictures

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Speaker 1: and all kinds of others, old clothes, things like that.

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Speaker 1: And then to boot you got cardboard boxes. You can't

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Speaker 1: go to you can't go to U haul or even

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Speaker 1: to a storage unit without them trying to sell you

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Speaker 1: boxesally and.

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Speaker 2: You know what, going and moving, you go to the

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Speaker 2: grocery store out in the back boxes.

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Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, And so you think about a sustainable fuel source.

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Speaker 1: Cardboard boxes, those core coreated boxes are one of the

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Speaker 1: best around and even even like if you have because

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Speaker 1: we'll soore stuff in plastic as well. So you know

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Speaker 1: you've got those clip on lids, Well, what is plastic

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Speaker 1: made out of. It's a petroleum based product. So once

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Speaker 1: those things ignite and it begins to change, that kind

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Speaker 1: of a chemical change begins. As you introduce heat to

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Speaker 1: the substance that makes up those little it becomes a

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Speaker 1: sustainable fuel source. After a while, you just have to

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Speaker 1: attain enough heat in order to facilitate that.

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Speaker 2: But what about a rentally unit that has limited ox

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Speaker 2: there's not a lot of wind blowing through. They're pretty

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Speaker 2: you know, they're tight, they're got doors on them, in

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Speaker 2: this case padlog door, but there's oftentimes not very much

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Speaker 2: space inside those Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you begin to think about and this is

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Speaker 1: something that met people don't think about. Let's see, how

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Speaker 1: can I put this if you let's just say that,

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Speaker 1: Let's just say that you an I sit down, We

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Speaker 1: go and we get inside of a two man submarine. Okay,

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Speaker 1: in that submarine as.

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Speaker 2: You out, you're already stuck again.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't take it, well, you and I would be

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Speaker 1: displacing the oxygen in there, so for us introducing the

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Speaker 1: mass of our bodies into that environment, then we're displacing

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Speaker 1: that oxygen that would otherwise be there. So if you've

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Speaker 1: got all of these items and you don't have free

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Speaker 1: flowing air through there, you're going to have a limited

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Speaker 1: amount of oxygen contained in that space. And so you

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Speaker 1: begin to think about, well, if there's a victim in here,

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Speaker 1: where they breathing at the time the fire initiated, or

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Speaker 1: is this something where perhaps they had died prior to

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Speaker 1: and someone decided to foolishly try to incinerate the body

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Speaker 1: in there. That's why, you know, like one of the

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Speaker 1: things you look at with this, you're thinking, Gee, Louisa,

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Speaker 1: is it would somebody use a storage unit in order

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Speaker 1: to render down a body? I just I don't with fire,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It seems like it'd be rather glaring

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Speaker 1: to me if you were like the watchman out there,

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Speaker 1: you know, keeping keeping tabs on the thing. All right.

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Speaker 2: Well, from a timeline standpoint, we know that Morgan Wingire

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Speaker 2: was at the storage unit with her mother. They're seen

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Speaker 2: on surveillance video at twelve thirty six pm. We're talking

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Speaker 2: November seventh, now, November seventh, in Michigan, in this particular

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Speaker 2: area of Michigan, Is it going to be really cold?

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Speaker 1: Yes, okay at night in particular, and we're talking about

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Speaker 1: night here well actually, and keep in mind we're Alabama

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Speaker 1: boys too, right, so there their perception of cold might

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Speaker 1: not be the same as ours. But when it gets

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Speaker 1: down to it, if the if the environmental temperature is uncomfortable,

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Speaker 1: you're going to be uncomfortable and it's going to be cold,

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Speaker 1: and you're going to look for a heat source.

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Speaker 2: Would right now. Morgan wing IRE's mother actually rented the

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Speaker 2: store unit for her for Morgan. Morgan and her mother

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Speaker 2: are seen at the storage unit at twelve thirty six pm,

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Speaker 2: so just afternoon. They then on surveillance video you can

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Speaker 2: see Morgan Wingire actually put a padlock on the door

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Speaker 2: and lock it. They then leave at eight point thirty

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Speaker 2: that night. On surveillance video, smoke is seen coming out

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Speaker 2: from the storage unit. I don't know to a level

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Speaker 2: because it's dark, but enough that it can be seen

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Speaker 2: on surveillance video. Just after nine pm, flames are seen

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Speaker 2: coming out of the storage units. And these are several

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Speaker 2: units sitting side by side. At just around eleven pm,

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Speaker 2: police and fire show up to the fire, which has

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Speaker 2: now been going on for at least an hour hour

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Speaker 2: half two hours, at least two and a half hours,

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Speaker 2: because when the smoke was first seen, Yeah, and.

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Speaker 1: The firefighters are merely being called out to a structure fires.

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Speaker 2: They had no idea got a storage unit on fire.

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Speaker 1: That's all exactly exactly.

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Speaker 2: The thing is is that they didn't know until they

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Speaker 2: opened the door. And I wonder how this goes on, Joe,

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Speaker 2: because they get there and they see the storage units,

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Speaker 2: they're not all padlocked from the outside. Now, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to guess that you and I both have rented storage units,

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Speaker 2: and if you put your stuff in there, you do

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Speaker 2: put a lock on it.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, you definitely do. And there are some

185
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Speaker 1: that have the I've seen some that have like it's

186
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Speaker 1: not really a dead bolt, but there's like an external

187
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Speaker 1: lock that comes the thing comes equipped with, right, which

188
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Speaker 1: I would never trust in a million years. If I've

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Speaker 1: got valuables in there, I'm going to buy the top

190
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Speaker 1: of the line lock and put it, which can still

191
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Speaker 1: be defeated pretty easily with a pair of bolt cutters,

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Speaker 1: which it appears is what the fire service used to

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Speaker 1: gain access.

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Speaker 2: They had padlock was used on the door.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they had. They had to get in there, and

196
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Speaker 1: they had to cut that lock in order to gain

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Speaker 1: access to it.

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Speaker 2: Now, when they open this door, Joe, because the other

199
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Speaker 2: units were on fire, I'm going to assume it's not

200
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Speaker 2: just one little place. We know it's been burning for

201
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Speaker 2: two and a half hours based on surveillance video, at

202
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Speaker 2: least two and a half hours, yep. But we don't

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Speaker 2: know the actual starting point yet. We don't know did

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Speaker 2: it start in the padlocked room or did it start

205
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Speaker 2: in one of the other units. The only thing we

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Speaker 2: do know is that at twelve thirty six pm, Morgan

207
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Speaker 2: wing Eyre and her mother were outside that unit number

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Speaker 2: four fifty four when Morgan actually put a padlock on

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Speaker 2: the door and spun it to lock the door. Firemen

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Speaker 2: show up, They cut the padlock off and get in

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Speaker 2: the door. And what do they find, Joseph Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 1: Well, they find a young woman's body that is in

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Speaker 1: amongst the burn debris in this environment, and she used

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Speaker 1: to cease. You know, at this point in time, there's

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Speaker 1: no saving her or anything like this. And immediately, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think that first off, anytime, well, let me back up.

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Speaker 1: Anytime there's a structure fire, you're going to have a

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Speaker 1: fire marshal that's going to come out, and probably a

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Speaker 1: fire investigator and they're going to say.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know that.

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Speaker 1: Wa.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Anytime there's a building, a structure he's on fire,

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Speaker 2: they actually begin an investigation.

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Speaker 1: Is that because of our Yeah? Well yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: and nothing's you know, look, the firefighters, and God bless them,

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Speaker 1: they've saved my life before. I love firefighters. I love

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Speaker 1: working with them, and I've said that plainly many times

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Speaker 1: over the years. They're not there to assess a scene

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Speaker 1: other than trying to get a fire knocked down and

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Speaker 1: make it safe. And once they back back out, as

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Speaker 1: it said, once all the flames have been knocked down

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Speaker 1: and they've got the things secured, that's when searches begin. Now,

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Speaker 1: firefighters do find bodies, okay. So if they're in there

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Speaker 1: and they're walking around, they've got the big powerful lights on,

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Speaker 1: they've got respirators on, you know, so that because can

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Speaker 1: you imagine the amount of smoke inside this thing, and

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Speaker 1: it would have just come rolling out on them. I'm

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Speaker 1: amazed by the fact that they were able to appreciate

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Speaker 1: her body in that environment. But once you find that

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Speaker 1: body like that, particularly in this case, and they have

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Speaker 1: subdued the fire to the point they've knocked it down,

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Speaker 1: there's no more flame, they're going to back out and

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Speaker 1: they're going to secure the thing, and they're going to

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Speaker 1: call an arson investigator. They're going to call the police.

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Speaker 1: And in this case what they found was on imagine. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think it's kind of obvious, Dave, you can't lock

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Speaker 1: yourself into a structure with the padlock. They've already got

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Speaker 1: CCTV of this young woman locking that. What fascinates me

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Speaker 1: about this is that Wingmer's mother was physically there. How

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Speaker 1: do you not have an awareness that there's somebody in there?

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Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying?

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Speaker 2: That's kind of Isn't that odd that the story that

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Speaker 2: we've been told is that Morgan wing Ire, her mother

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Speaker 2: rented the storage unit for her and she was allowing

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Speaker 2: karenn o Ba Samra to stay in the unit. I'm

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Speaker 2: going to go out on a limb here and say,

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Speaker 2: this is not an apartment, this is a storage unit.

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Speaker 2: And Morgan wing Ire and Karin Obasamra, according to Morgan's mother,

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Speaker 2: had been in a relationship with previously and this is

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Speaker 2: stuff coming from Morgan's mother. Morgan wing Are has not

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Speaker 2: spoken out about this. We have no quotes from her.

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Speaker 2: She's in jail right now.

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Speaker 1: We'll tell you why.

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Speaker 2: But it's her mother that gives us the quotes Joe

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Speaker 2: about them being in a relationship and that she claimed

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Speaker 2: that Karen Obasamra had been homeless, homeless person. I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: be straight up with you, man. Karen Obasamra highly educated

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Speaker 2: woman at thirty three years old. She's got her degrees,

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Speaker 2: she's got her career, she's going places. So I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: follow down a path here, and I'm going to suggest

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Speaker 2: something that is unpopular. But Morgan wing Iyer had been

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Speaker 2: arrested last year, well, twenty twenty three on methamphetamine charges. Okay,

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Speaker 2: based on the situation, Morgan wing Iyr is hiding Karen

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Speaker 2: Obisamra in that storage unit from her mother. From Morgan's mother.

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Speaker 1: Wow, And I don't know, I mean, this is all

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Speaker 1: speculative on part you know. So what what would be

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Speaker 1: the motivation behind a grown woman hiding another grown woman

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Speaker 1: in a storage unit in a storage unit, unless you

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Speaker 1: were trying to I don't know. Perhaps you know knock

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Speaker 1: down any kind of suspicion on the mother's part that

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Speaker 1: they were still involved in a relationship. Right.

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Speaker 2: The padlock came from They're at the survey at the

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Speaker 2: unit and the mother says to you know, because it's

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Speaker 2: rented in the mother's name, and her mother insists, you're

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Speaker 2: not going to put a lock on that. Put a

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Speaker 2: lock on that storage unit. That's when Morgan put the

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Speaker 2: lock on the storage unit. That's when she locked that

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Speaker 2: padlock on at twelve thirty six PM. It was because

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Speaker 2: her mother rented the inn. Her mother said, put a

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Speaker 2: lock on that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're talking, dude, we're talking hours after all.

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Speaker 2: But think about it, Joe. The twelve thirty six, they're

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Speaker 2: at the unit. The smoke is seen at eight thirty

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Speaker 2: on surveillance at nine, flames are seen at eleven. Cops

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Speaker 2: and fires show up, but Morgan wing II or Mark

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Speaker 2: I mean Morgan Wingyre never shows back up. Police go

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Speaker 2: looking for her and don't find her until the next

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Speaker 2: day at eleven thirty am in a hotel. She said

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Speaker 2: she had no plans to be away from the unit

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Speaker 2: that long. She just got tied up with doing some errands. Well.

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Speaker 2: At twenty three hours. She left that woman in that

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Speaker 2: padlocked storage unit, Joe for twenty three hours without anything,

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Speaker 2: and by the way, she wasn't headed back over to

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Speaker 2: the unit when police found her. Police found her in

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Speaker 2: a hotel room.

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Speaker 1: What would be the motivation for you to take up

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Speaker 1: at least temporary residency in a motel somewhere, so to

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Speaker 1: the point where you're adjunct to a fire that you

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Speaker 1: were last known, your last known whereabouts was going to

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Speaker 1: be at that fire, locking the door, and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden you come up registered at a motel and look,

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Speaker 1: I mean, why are you not going back to your

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Speaker 1: mother's house? Why are you? And so many questions come

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Speaker 1: about here, and I begin to think, was this purposed?

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Speaker 1: You know? What? Were you? Were you just being mean?

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Speaker 1: I hate to reduce it down to that, but were

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Speaker 1: you just because you know? She I will go ahead

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Speaker 1: and give this bit away. She has been charged ay

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Speaker 1: with false imprisonment. Now, if you say false imprisonment, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe angels dancing on the head of the pen here.

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Speaker 1: But you began to think, well she was was she

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Speaker 1: actually imprisoning her to hold her or did she just

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Speaker 1: create the environment where it's legitimate she forgot that she

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Speaker 1: was in there. How do you forget another human being

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Speaker 1: that you, according to the mother, that you have been

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Speaker 1: involved in an intimate relationship with. How do you forget

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Speaker 1: that person that you had locked them in there? I

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Speaker 1: don't understand it.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know what sometimes and I'm gonna I'm just

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Speaker 2: gonna speculate that sometimes people who use drugs lose track

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Speaker 2: of time, especially when they use drugs like methamphetamine, they

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Speaker 2: tend to lose track of time. I'm not suggesting for

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Speaker 2: a minute that Morgan Wingeyre went out on a drug

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Speaker 2: bene and ended up in a hotel when police found

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Speaker 2: her to tell her that her storage unit was burned

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Speaker 2: up with a person inside and they have her on

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Speaker 2: surveillance video padlocking the door. By the way, Corinne Obisamra

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Speaker 2: was left inside that storage unit, Joe with nothing, no food,

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Speaker 2: no water, no light, and no phone, no means of communication,

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Speaker 2: just all for help or anything else.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, who in the world nowadays? I know there are

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Speaker 1: people well, don't get me wrong, but who doesn't have

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Speaker 1: at least a burn her phone, you know, with them?

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Speaker 1: And we're talking about a lady that is, by all accounts,

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Speaker 1: is highly educated has been successful. You listen to her

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Speaker 1: family talk about her, and she's been involved in things

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Speaker 1: like public service, you know, like working with people, outreach,

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Speaker 1: those sorts of things. She's got this kind of bubbly

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Speaker 1: personality and you think about, well, what, you know, what

350
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Speaker 1: kind of detour did she take in her life that

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Speaker 1: would wind up with her inside of a non heated,

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Speaker 1: non electrified storage unit where she doesn't have access to heat.

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Speaker 1: She's just kind of cast aside in the saying, and

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Speaker 1: then locked down and then suddenly, mysteriously a fire begins.

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Speaker 1: You know, David, fire is such a mystery weed We've

356
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Speaker 1: covered on body backs, We've covered some firecases in the past,

357
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Speaker 1: but you know, fire is such a mystery. The most

358
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Speaker 1: important thing I think for fire investigators and death investigators

359
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Speaker 1: is to try to determine two things. First off, the

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Speaker 1: source of the heat. Remember I talked about the uninhibited

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Speaker 1: chemical chain reaction of fire. Is it sustainable? And adjacent

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Speaker 1: to that is going to be point of origin. Where

363
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Speaker 1: did this thing start? Because you have to wonder did

364
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Speaker 1: it start in the middle of the floor. I don't

365
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Speaker 1: know about you, but Dave correct me if I'm wrong.

366
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Speaker 1: Storage units are commonly built on concrete slabs, aren't they Those.

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Speaker 2: Five rented have been Yes.

368
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Speaker 1: Yeah, this one altered to the ground, the beams and

369
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Speaker 1: everything or you know, those girders are like you know,

370
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Speaker 1: they're driven into the ground with bolts and held in place.

371
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Speaker 1: It's not like you're going to dig a hole, dig

372
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Speaker 1: a fire pit, you know, and create a fire. And

373
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Speaker 1: even if you did, what what are you going to

374
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Speaker 1: use as fuel in there?

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Speaker 2: And you know, I think that's why there is some

376
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Speaker 2: mystery surrounding this because so far we haven't been told

377
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Speaker 2: that the fire began in that unit. We were only

378
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Speaker 2: told that fire department officials had to cut the padlock

379
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Speaker 2: off of it to get inside. And you know, we

380
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Speaker 2: can assume that that's where the fire began. We can

381
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 2: assume because they were knocking it down everywhere else, but

382
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Speaker 2: they still had a problem in that unit. We can

383
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Speaker 2: assume those things, but we don't know that for a fact.

384
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Speaker 2: That's why I was asking about oxygen in a room

385
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Speaker 2: and how much there because you're a confined area. That's

386
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Speaker 2: usually a you know, it's twelve by fourteen or whatever,

387
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Speaker 2: and it usually has stuff in it.

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Speaker 1: You know.

389
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Speaker 2: Let's just say for the sake of all that's good

390
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,679
Speaker 2: and human in this world. That here, this poor woman

391
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Speaker 2: is in being hidden in a storage unit with nothing,

392
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Speaker 2: and maybe she's got a lighter in her pocket, and

393
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Speaker 2: maybe she's trying to light she's cold, she's hungry, she's thirsty.

394
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Speaker 2: Maybe she's trying to just burn, you know, something to

395
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Speaker 2: stay warm, trying to burn some papers or clothes. I

396
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Speaker 2: don't know.

397
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Speaker 1: But at what.

398
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Speaker 2: Point do we look at this and say she was

399
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Speaker 2: in there for at least ten hours before the fire

400
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Speaker 2: was seen.

401
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Speaker 1: You know what a what a hopeless feeling that would be.

402
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 1: You know, no matter how much you rattle or bang

403
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 1: on that door, nobody's coming to your rescue. The thing

404
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 1: is locked externally, and there's not a latch. I don't think.

405
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 1: I'm sure that people out there will correct me, but

406
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: to the best milage, it's not an internal latch, and

407
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 1: even if there was, it's secure from the outside. So

408
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: how hopeless would that be? And listen, this is the

409
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: other thing too. We're talking about November. So in the

410
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 1: middle of the day, this metallic box that you've got

411
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: all your stuff stored in, you're going to have some

412
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: radiant heating that's in there. My brother, is that sun

413
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: begins to dip down up there in Michigan, You're going

414
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Speaker 1: to feel that chill. And can you imagine, let's just say,

415
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: for the sacred argument, that she is in fact seated

416
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Speaker 1: on that concrete floor, how cold that is. And it's

417
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Speaker 1: one of those if you've ever sat on like really

418
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: cold stone like that for a protracted period of time,

419
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Speaker 1: you know how people say I can feel the cold

420
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Speaker 1: in my bones. That's the way it feels. It just

421
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 1: kind of travels up throughout your body. And you know,

422
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Speaker 1: for I don't know what she had that she could

423
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Speaker 1: have wrapped herself in. You know, did she have a

424
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Speaker 1: blanket even you know, one of the basic necessities of life, warmth,

425
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: heat protection coverage, or there any other clothes that were

426
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 1: in there that she could have put on, just to

427
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: you know, try to try to salvage any kind of

428
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: heat that her little body was generating in that environment.

429
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: But we do have a clue here, Dave. There's a

430
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: comment that firefighters made in regards to this, and I

431
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: found this kind of compelling, Dave. They didn't say that

432
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: her body was found. They said that her charred remains

433
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: were found. And that's that's different because I've worked a

434
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: lot of cases over the years where people did in

435
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: fact die of smoke inholation. You know the old adage

436
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: about how many times we've seen the thing. We even

437
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: learned it when we were kids. If there's a fire

438
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 1: in the room, you get on get on the floor,

439
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: and you crawl right, crawl because there's still breatheable Yeah,

440
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: there's still breathable oxygen down there, But you do that

441
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 1: in order to escape where you're going to escape to.

442
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: Can you imagine the panic that would set in. Let's

443
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: just say that she did in fact start a fire

444
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: in there just for her on comfort. Well, where you

445
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: going to go to to escape it, and the place

446
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,360
Speaker 1: is not lighted, She can't see what's around there. There

447
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: may have been a lot of flammable items that were

448
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: in there. But we do know that she's sequestered in

449
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 1: this area against her will because she can't leave. I

450
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: can't imagine anybody in their right mind saying, will you

451
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: please get the padlock and lock me up inside of

452
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: the storage unit and don't come back and check on me,

453
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 1: And by the way, don't give me any means to

454
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 1: communicate with anybody out there. You know, it's just it,

455
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: It's mind boggling when you think about it.

456
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 2: Day, I actually went back over this story multiple times

457
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: and looked through multiple sources, and because they kept thinking

458
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 2: I'm missing something here, I am missing something And in

459
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 2: reality you have to make it. You know, you don't

460
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 2: have to. But if you make a couple of assumptions

461
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 2: and you can get there, it's explainable as to what happened.

462
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 2: Now on its surface, just looking at it as just

463
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 2: too Joe blows. You have a person who my mom

464
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 2: rented this unit for me, and I'm hiding a friend

465
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 2: in there, but I don't want my mom to find out.

466
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,719
Speaker 2: And I don't know how mom doesn't know, but she

467
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 2: apparently doesn't know that Karen Obisamra is staying inside the

468
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 2: storage unit. And as they're getting ready to pull away

469
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 2: that day, Morgan wing Eire's mother says, hey, why is

470
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 2: that not lock that up? That's my stuff, and lock

471
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 2: it up. So she does now her intention. I'm going

472
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 2: to come back in a couple hours. You know, I'm

473
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 2: going to lock it now, but I'm coming back. She

474
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 2: knows she according to Morgan wing Ire herself, she told

475
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 2: police she knew that Karen Abusamra had no phone no food,

476
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 2: no nothing. She knew that when she left her there.

477
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 2: She didn't plan on leaving her there for a long time.

478
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 2: She planned on coming back, but you know what, she

479
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,719
Speaker 2: didn't come back, and she didn't come back because I

480
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 2: think she was Probably the only thing that explains it, Joe,

481
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 2: is she was using drugs and was not coming back

482
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 2: because of that, because she was high now.

483
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: Or she was cruel beyond measure, if she.

484
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 2: Did this intentionally and willfully, she locked somebody in there

485
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 2: and then just didn't come back. Because I got to

486
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 2: say this, it's not like this woman was only locked

487
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 2: in there for ten hours. Back up and regroup and

488
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 2: realize the person that should put the padlock on there

489
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 2: wasn't back there for twenty three hours. Okay, she didn't.

490
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,239
Speaker 2: It wasn't ten hours in her mind's eye. It had

491
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 2: been twenty three hours when police found her at the

492
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 2: hotel and she still wasn't on her way back to

493
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: the storage unit. So if that was her intent to

494
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 2: lock that girl up and let her die, mission accomplished.

495
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: Well, I think that we have some clues here considering

496
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: how she was charged, because they did in fact charge her,

497
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: I believe Dave correct me. If I'm wrong with involuntary manslaughter.

498
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 2: They did for.

499
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: Right now because they haven't released a lot of information

500
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: in regards to the status of this poor woman's body.

501
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: And here's another bit, they don't know what the origin

502
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: of this fire was.

503
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 2: I was hoping you did. I'm not in my notes

504
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 2: asked Joe about the origin of the fire, because I

505
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 2: can't find it anywhere, and they're not saying.

506
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: Well, the origin, most of the time is going to

507
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: be determined. You've got two ways to frame origin. For

508
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: most laymen, you'll say the origin is whatever started the fire, Okay,

509
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: how did it originate? But for us, origin in forensics

510
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: is more of a spatial assessment. Okay, Like origin is

511
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: where you know, like your country of origin, your place

512
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: of origin, So where did it start? How do we

513
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: determine that? Most of the time you're going to determine

514
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: that based upon the degree of damage in a location.

515
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: So it's relatively simple. The more damage you have in

516
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: a location, that means that the fire is burned there

517
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: the longest, and perhaps more intensely. Like if you start

518
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: a fire, if you've got a I don't know, a

519
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: sixteen by twenty room, I don't know if that makes

520
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: sense or not. But anyway, you start a fire over

521
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: in the corner of a room with dry wall, you know, gypsum,

522
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: you know, made out of that, maybe you stack some

523
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: rags there, you put a little gasoline, and you start it. Well,

524
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that that fire can't leap and get

525
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: in behind the walls, because they do get up in

526
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: the ceiling burn their way around. But the most damage

527
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: that's going to be done is where those rags were. Well,

528
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: here's here's the rub, if you will. If this is

529
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: on a concrete surface and she started in the middle

530
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: of the room, are they going to be able to

531
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: tell what the actual point of origin was? Was it

532
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: over in a corner, because concrete doesn't necessarily it'll be

533
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:17,479
Speaker 1: you know, kind of scorched, scored, if you will, But

534
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: it's not going to it's not like wood that's gonna

535
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: you know, become brittle and fall apart. Well, if it's

536
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: right there on the floor, this could make this a

537
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: bit more of a heavy lift for the forensics people

538
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: after they get in there. The other thing I want

539
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: to know, well, I guess the big ask is how

540
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: did the mother not know that there was a living

541
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: human being? Inside of there, and that goes to the

542
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: next question, was she in fact living okay? So at autopsy,

543
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: one of the things the first things you're going to

544
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: look for is going to be small smoking relation. Did

545
00:32:53,680 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: she inhalate or breathe in inhale the debris that's burning

546
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: up around her or is there no evidence of that

547
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: where you don't have any of the soot as we

548
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: refer to it into the airway, into the lungs, into

549
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: the narries of the nose, the sinuses. Is it absent

550
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: any kind of damage you can actually, you know when

551
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: you do a dissection on a throat, on the neck,

552
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: the elements of the neck and you look into the trachia,

553
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: I don't This is one of the most horrible things

554
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: to me. By the way, Dave, did you know that

555
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: when we open open the neck, we'll cut right down

556
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: through the center of it, through through the airway And

557
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: if an individual has been exposed to superheated air, there

558
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: are focal areas inside of the airway where it was burning.

559
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: Just grab hold of that, just for a second. You

560
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: can see color changes that are like, oh my god,

561
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: this person. And if we've ever been if you've ever

562
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: been around a fire like an outdoor fire perhaps and

563
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:07,959
Speaker 1: a bonfire, and you're too close to it. It's one

564
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: thing you feel the heat coming off, but if you

565
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 1: take a breath in, you can feel the heat that

566
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: you're taking on board. Just imagine you can't escape from

567
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 1: the bonfire. There's nowhere to run. You're right there, everything

568
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: is burning up around you. So my big question from

569
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: a forensics perspective is was was she alive at the

570
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:33,240
Speaker 1: time that the fire was going on? Because it begs

571
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: this question, how could the mother not have an awareness

572
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: that this person was in there where they just quiet,

573
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: That's something else happened to them beforehand. And secondly, I

574
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: want to know what exactly was her cause of death

575
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: if it's not smoke inhlation, where there other injuries sustained?

576
00:34:55,640 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 1: And that opens up an entire myriad of problems that

577
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: you're faced with fires, Because if you're talking about a

578
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: bullet hole somebody's been shot, you can still pick up

579
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: on that. With X rays you can actually see I've

580
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: seen bodies that have been burned after they were executed

581
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: execution style in the back of the head and you can

582
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: still see within the cranial vault if you will you'll

583
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: see this kind of lead snow storm that's in there

584
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: where the projectile particulated and kind of spread out through there.

585
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: You can still see that. Some fires get so hot, though,

586
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: I've had cases where fires have gotten so hot. First off,

587
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 1: you have heat fractures to bone as well as the skull.

588
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: I've opened up skulls before where brains were liquefied because

589
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: of the heat. It's almost like the brain boiled inside

590
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,760
Speaker 1: of the skull. So those types of things do happen.

591
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: It's hard to take the measure of it, isn't it.

592
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: So there's there's a lot more unanswered questions that need

593
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:01,399
Speaker 1: to be asked. I think that it's possible that if

594
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: they see anything that is other than as advertised as

595
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: they say many times, they can up charge her more

596
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: than likely Dave on this, It wouldn't just simply be

597
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: involuntary manslaughter. If they find something else that's going on

598
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: with her, then that can certainly, I think, you know,

599
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 1: probably make those charges a bit more robust.

600
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: Do you think that, Yeah, You've opened my eyes to

601
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 2: a lot of the things that I didn't realize were

602
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 2: possible in figuring out because I went back to make

603
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 2: sure that it wasn't smokeing elation that you know. What

604
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 2: did they find? What did fire and police find? And

605
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 2: they found the charred remains of corn Alba Samra And

606
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 2: that's what we know. And then we know that Morgan

607
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 2: Wingeire put the padlock on the door at twelve thirty

608
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 2: six pm and was gone. They didn't even find her

609
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 2: for twenty three hours, and when they did, she was

610
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 2: at a hotel. She was not at the unit unit

611
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 2: burned that day. So I'm looking at it from the

612
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 2: person who put the lock on. She didn't come back.

613
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 2: She said she planned to come back, but she didn't.

614
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 2: So what was it? Did you really want to? Just

615
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 2: were you killing this person by putting? And then you

616
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 2: mentioned it was she killed before this happened and a

617
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 2: fire started in another unit and came into that unit.

618
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 2: That's a possibility, right, yeah.

619
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: It is. Wow, you just you brought back a memory

620
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: when you said was there an intent to kill her?

621
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: And that would make this almost like a almost a

622
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 1: passive form of homicide instead of kind of a proactive

623
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 1: like I'm going to not I yeah, but I'm going

624
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: to take a weapon and do away with somebody. It's

625
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: almost like passively you know, well, you know, and that

626
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: goes to this idea of neglect, which we see. You know,

627
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 1: that comes up in other cases, but this is on

628
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: a different level because you're whether you're drug addlest or not,

629
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: I don't know what our status is, but you're subjecting

630
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,479
Speaker 1: this woman first off, to just sheare panic, right, because

631
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 1: I don't know about you. I don't do good in small,

632
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: dark spaces. I'm not saying this. I'm not saying the

633
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: storage union. It's small by any means. However, can you

634
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: imagine bumping around in the dark and you don't have

635
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 1: any source of light. You have no idea what's in there?

636
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: I mean boxes and just debris.

637
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 2: Even Jeff it was nothing if there was nothing in there, yeah, yeah,

638
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 2: And he's walking around the cell that you can't see.

639
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:40,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. And there's no source of light. I've

640
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: been Every storage unit i've had has had I think

641
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: some light switch in it. Now, I've had one that didn't,

642
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 1: and I've had them that don't have power sources either,

643
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: I guess for good reason. You know, where you can't

644
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: plug in something in there. I've had other ones, and

645
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: you get what you get, you know, if you up charge,

646
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: you know, they'll charge you for it, you know, and

647
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: certainly you know you have the ones that are in

648
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: climate you know, they always use the climate controlled storage units.

649
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 2: You know, I got one step up from the dirt

650
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 2: barn in my neighbor's backyard, you know, cheapest one I

651
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 2: could find.

652
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: That's where my stuff was back Yeah, exactly, And so

653
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: you you consider all of that if if I think

654
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: the big thing here is was their intent to do

655
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: harm to this poor woman? And we can't say at

656
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: this point in time if her intention was just to

657
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: leave her in there forever and ever. Amen, we don't know,

658
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: but we do know that this poor woman was locked

659
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: in a sword unit and abandoned for hours upon hours

660
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: until mysteriously a fire starts. There's gonna be more to

661
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 1: follow in this case until then. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan

662
00:39:54,920 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: and this is Body Backs