Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 2: And when I find my ball in a fried egg
Speaker 2: Friday Egg, the dreaded Friday Friday Friday Brian egg Lie,
Speaker 2: I'm about ready to run off of the.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Friday Golf Podcast. I am your
Speaker 1: host Andy Johnson. Today I am excited to be joined
Speaker 1: by Will zl Taurus. Will is a I don't think
Speaker 1: you probably need to know who Will is. He's a
Speaker 1: great PGA Tour player, obviously has dealt with some injury
Speaker 1: issues the last couple of years. With us back we
Speaker 1: talked through him coming back to the PGA Tour. He'll
Speaker 1: kick off his season at Palm Springs at the AMAX,
Speaker 1: and we will you know, it will be fun to
Speaker 1: watch him come back to the circuit. Obviously one of
Speaker 1: the great major championship golfers in the sport. So looking
Speaker 1: forward to Will hitting back to the PGA Tour. And
Speaker 1: was great to chat golf with him for about an
Speaker 1: hour and a half. So before we get to Will,
Speaker 1: now's a great time be a better golf fan this year.
Speaker 1: Join Friday Golf Club. It's our membership, it's our community.
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Speaker 1: Let's get to will ZL Tours, all right, will I
Speaker 1: think the billion dollar question, how how are you feeling?
Speaker 1: How's the back?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think it's a little more than a million now. No,
Speaker 2: it's good, It's really good. It was a long three years.
Speaker 2: I think if you take it back to twenty to
Speaker 2: twenty one was really the first time I heard it.
Speaker 2: Twenty two is when I blew it out. When I
Speaker 2: first had my surgery and twenty three, the surgeon said, hey,
Speaker 2: look if we get two to eight years out of
Speaker 2: this before, like, I just don't want to play a
Speaker 2: fake disc in a twenty at the time, twenty six,
Speaker 2: twenty seven year old, Like that's just not what we do.
Speaker 2: I'd rather you like actually be a candidate to blowing
Speaker 2: them out and then we go ahead and we just
Speaker 2: know for sure. So it lasted two years and then
Speaker 2: I ended up doing the fake disc route, which a
Speaker 2: lot of guys have done it in their neck like
Speaker 2: Jack Eichel in the NHL Stricker just got his in
Speaker 2: his neck. Tiger announced that he had one done, and
Speaker 2: it's a game changer. I mean, it's like all these
Speaker 2: guys like when you're doing all these like stretching for
Speaker 2: your back and whatnot, like every modality that you can
Speaker 2: think of, I've done it. Like I'm at that point
Speaker 2: with it where I'm like, look, I've I've purchased my
Speaker 2: back at this point, like to get back to this point. So,
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the thing that has helped me
Speaker 2: a lot was I just all of the height that
Speaker 2: I had in my disc was just gone, Like I
Speaker 2: had a back of basically like a fifty year old,
Speaker 2: and so I needed to figure out a way how
Speaker 2: to get the hype back. Otherwise it was like, hey,
Speaker 2: we're either going to have to fuse you, which is
Speaker 2: the death sentence basically at my age, or you know,
Speaker 2: we want to wait as long as we can, as
Speaker 2: we think the technology is going to get better. Had
Speaker 2: I waited or had I done this a few years ago, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe I wouldn't have been in this situation now. But
Speaker 2: the thing I would say is that the technology only
Speaker 2: got better. So like this go around, you know, it
Speaker 2: was eight weeks of no putting and then I was
Speaker 2: back putting. When I did the micro diskectomy. I was
Speaker 2: out for five months before I touched the golf club again.
Speaker 2: So I mean, this one was a little bit harder
Speaker 2: because mentally than it was physically, because you know, the
Speaker 2: other one it was just kind of like, all right,
Speaker 2: you're trying to get back to where you were. This
Speaker 2: one is like, hey, we're fixing something in here and
Speaker 2: we think it's going to work, but we don't really
Speaker 2: have a lot of data on it, at least at
Speaker 2: your age. And the part that I thought was so
Speaker 2: cool was that I came back like a three quarters
Speaker 2: of an inch taller, like literally, so I'm not lying.
Speaker 2: I'm actually six to now, you know, but the thing
Speaker 2: that like that's got to bump it to six three. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I know, right, but it's it's kind of funny how
Speaker 2: like when I saw some guys after your time off
Speaker 2: like gutten taller, I'm like, yeah, I have, but no,
Speaker 2: I just I think the all of we checked all
Speaker 2: of the boxes in the twenty twenty hindsight, you could
Speaker 2: look at it and go like, yeah, we could have
Speaker 2: done this faster, but it also wouldn't have been this effective.
Speaker 2: So like for two and a half three months, I
Speaker 2: literally just played as much golf as I possibly could,
Speaker 2: and the surgeons were like, hey, we want you to
Speaker 2: go find your limit, like go walk, go push it,
Speaker 2: you know, push a car, like just don't carry a bag.
Speaker 2: Like we're over that at this point. So I mean
Speaker 2: I just went out and played as much golf as
Speaker 2: I possibly could. I mean, we we messaged a little
Speaker 2: bit of like I just went and played anywhere new
Speaker 2: and fun and just kind of made the game fun
Speaker 2: again and was traveling with some buddies. So it was cool.
Speaker 2: It was actually kind of a fun recovery as opposed
Speaker 2: to like kind of it on my ass and you know,
Speaker 2: waiting for you know, towiling golf club between my hands
Speaker 2: until I get the okay to go.
Speaker 1: You've been in this competitive golf mode since you were
Speaker 1: like nine ten years old, where you know, kind of
Speaker 1: golf is a you're out there trying to get better
Speaker 1: all the time. What was it like playing personal golf
Speaker 1: where you're just playing golf?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fun. I mean I think through COVID I
Speaker 2: got back to playing more fun golf again, and I
Speaker 2: kind of lost that just through all of the back
Speaker 2: stuff and having to work on the swing and like,
Speaker 2: you know, show up one day and feel like I've
Speaker 2: got to hit all these balls and then oh man,
Speaker 2: my back's killing me. Gotta take some time off. So
Speaker 2: I kind of had that taken away from me. And
Speaker 2: that's how I've always been is like would you would
Speaker 2: I be? You know David Price, who the rules to
Speaker 2: Pischon Tours, a head pro at the club that I
Speaker 2: grew up at, Benry in Dallas. He basically told me
Speaker 2: that in college because he went to the University of Texas.
Speaker 2: He said, Ben Crenschat would go play thirty six holes
Speaker 2: and he was just the athlete, like he would go
Speaker 2: find ways to make par he'd you know, go make
Speaker 2: up and downs. And then you'd have Tom Kite who'd
Speaker 2: hit golf balls for twelve hours until he'd need a
Speaker 2: new sandwich because the grooves were gone. You know, those
Speaker 2: were the two opposites that I saw. And he was
Speaker 2: like every pro that I've ever talked to, whether it's
Speaker 2: been Landy, Watkins, Leech, Travino, go play. And so that's
Speaker 2: always kind of been my mindset is it's just always
Speaker 2: been kind of like play it for fun. And I
Speaker 2: just kind of lost that for a while just because
Speaker 2: it was like go work on your swinging, figure out
Speaker 2: how to get out of pain, whatever. But you know,
Speaker 2: going to cal Club, going to Cyprus, Albert National, Childress Hall,
Speaker 2: you know, Dallas National just reopened. I remember at Brook Hollows.
Speaker 2: So it's been fun. You know, it's been kind of
Speaker 2: fun bouncing around and playing some cool places and you know,
Speaker 2: kind of the for fun of it, I guess, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of the get done with the round and go
Speaker 2: have a beer with the guys type thing. That's the
Speaker 2: stuff that we all kind of enjoy and sometimes it's
Speaker 2: kind of easy to get lost in that into her
Speaker 2: life a little bit.
Speaker 1: Do you have a couple favorite places that you saw
Speaker 1: that maybe you didn't know a tout about, or you
Speaker 1: know that just knocked your socks off?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean shoulders now or shoulder saw was really
Speaker 2: really cool to see. The Dope course when we went,
Speaker 2: it was hot and windy, it was hard. The hands
Speaker 2: course there is we it wasn't open yet. I think
Speaker 2: it just opened for play about now, or maybe a
Speaker 2: couple of months ago. But I mean it is just
Speaker 2: so fun to go up there, you know, have a
Speaker 2: caddy go walk twenty seven one day, you know, mess
Speaker 2: around a little bit, play alternate holes. You know, stuff
Speaker 2: like that was really cool. And then you know, going
Speaker 2: from the all natural to kind of the opposite of
Speaker 2: doctor Howard's course, which is all fog yo man made
Speaker 2: insanely manicured to the nines. You know, he did a
Speaker 2: little article and a little deal on his golf course
Speaker 2: and he just wants to make it for him, like
Speaker 2: him and his family, and it's it's just it's fun.
Speaker 2: It's cool to see the polar opposites of it all.
Speaker 2: And you know, Dallas in particular has had a lot
Speaker 2: of building going on with was it Blue Jack Ranch,
Speaker 2: and then we have Maverick going in. We've had p Day,
Speaker 2: Frisco go in, you know, so we've had a lot.
Speaker 2: I mean, so I think on that side of it's
Speaker 2: kind of fun seeing the development side of it, of
Speaker 2: the place reve life for the last twenty years of school.
Speaker 2: But on the other side of it. Tool On the
Speaker 2: other side of it too, which we kind of talked
Speaker 2: about earlier before we got on, is all we have
Speaker 2: is land and a lot of oil and a lot
Speaker 2: of money in Texas. So there's a lot of golf
Speaker 2: courses and a lot of people moving here. So it's
Speaker 2: only going to get better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like the new golf course boom of
Speaker 1: Texas is kind of just starting. As you know, people
Speaker 1: find more and more pockets of sand or really interesting land,
Speaker 1: whether you know where it be. There's just you know,
Speaker 1: you look around on the internet at land. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of land in Texas, as you said, has it
Speaker 1: over the course of these couple of years. You know,
Speaker 1: being in a position where you're probably thinking about golf
Speaker 1: or you are thinking about golf a lot more than
Speaker 1: you're playing about it or playing it. Have your thoughts
Speaker 1: about golf changed at all?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know what's funny. I mean it's
Speaker 2: a really good question because when I got out was
Speaker 2: during COVID LID was just kind of this talked about idea.
Speaker 2: You know, there's, hey, there's a Saudi back golf league
Speaker 2: that's getting started. What, oh, okay cool? And then fast
Speaker 2: forward literally two years later, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: I'm in a meeting in Delaware with you know, thirty
Speaker 2: other guys trying to figure out like what's the best
Speaker 2: path forward for the PGA Tour. And it's kind of like,
Speaker 2: holy cow, Like I've the four or five years. I
Speaker 2: know that, especially when you hear someone when they're like young, like, man,
Speaker 2: I've really lived through some stuff. I'm like, No, the
Speaker 2: last five years has been crazy, Like I've really kind
Speaker 2: of been around some some wild stuff for or at
Speaker 2: least in my sport. But no, I think going and
Speaker 2: playing and I would say playing new golf, old golf,
Speaker 2: it's opened my eyes to the fact of I think
Speaker 2: when we first for having the conversations of the driver ball,
Speaker 2: and it was first presented to the pros in general,
Speaker 2: it was presented in a way where it was like,
Speaker 2: we're gonna take everything so far back that it's like, hey,
Speaker 2: we need to take this little steady rise and we
Speaker 2: need to get this thing so far back down so
Speaker 2: that all of these seventy four hundred plus yard golf
Speaker 2: course isn't you know now it's seventy six if they're
Speaker 2: brand new, you know, what do you know? How do
Speaker 2: we minimize that? And I think at the time, the
Speaker 2: way how it was presented was hey, a plus people see,
Speaker 2: you guys are gonna be on board. This is what
Speaker 2: we're gonna do, and it was kind of like a whoa, whoa,
Speaker 2: wha whoa, Like let's break down piece by piece. And
Speaker 2: obviously you have the side of you know, the manufacturing
Speaker 2: side where they're trying to protect you know, hey, this
Speaker 2: is how we've done things for a very long time.
Speaker 2: You have the maybe you could say purist if you will,
Speaker 2: where they're saying, hey, these old school golf courses, you know,
Speaker 2: these bunkers where people were supposed to be hitting drivers,
Speaker 2: you know, neck and neck with even regular golfers are
Speaker 2: carrying these bunkers now. So I think where the middle
Speaker 2: ground has come is that it's not so much, and
Speaker 2: this is how it should have been presented in my opinion.
Speaker 2: And again this is just somebody from the PGA tour perspective.
Speaker 2: I'm not in the mass audience. I come from a
Speaker 2: community of two hundred and fifty. Looking from this side out,
Speaker 2: I guess I would say that they're trying to get
Speaker 2: what basically is a one yard increment every single year
Speaker 2: to just flatten, just get it to where it goes
Speaker 2: to maybe half a yard for ten years. The manufacturers
Speaker 2: are going to figure out this difference. They're too good
Speaker 2: to not figure it out. I just think at the
Speaker 2: time that was so much where the example that I
Speaker 2: used was like take number eleven at bay Hill. Now
Speaker 2: number eleven at bay Hill is a terrible example, but
Speaker 2: we had the player, we had this meeting in bay Hill.
Speaker 2: So this was my argument, and I've been saying it
Speaker 2: for three years, so I'm just gonna stick with it.
Speaker 2: But the argument that I had is that I always
Speaker 2: hit driver there. I aim at the left water and
Speaker 2: I peel a fade, knowing that if I overdo the
Speaker 2: fad it's going to go on the right bunker. Right. Well,
Speaker 2: the difference is is that the guys that all of
Speaker 2: a sudden if now that ball is going to be
Speaker 2: drawn back, the other guys who were hitting driver were
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, I was hitting wedge maybe nine
Speaker 2: er and in I have hit lob wedge in there
Speaker 2: when it's been down. When now I'm moving that back
Speaker 2: to nine eight seven, whereas the guy who was hitting
Speaker 2: nine eight seven before is now hitting seven six five.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I will take that fight all day long.
Speaker 2: You know, if someone's two clubs shorter than me, like,
Speaker 2: that's just going to benefit the longer guy, which I
Speaker 2: think is when Rory kind of switched his stance a
Speaker 2: little bit, going from really anti to four. I kind
Speaker 2: of once it was kind of presented in a way
Speaker 2: that made sense. Then I think that's where I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I get it. I didn't want someone to be like, hey,
Speaker 2: what driver do you play? Like, well, I played a
Speaker 2: new one, but it goes if you try, it's going
Speaker 2: to go twenty yards shorter. And it's like, well, how
Speaker 2: hell are we supposed to sell golf clubs as pros,
Speaker 2: you know, being ambassador's form, Like, that's not if they
Speaker 2: were to pull that back that far. So I think
Speaker 2: that's where like the communication up front at first was
Speaker 2: a little rough, and then I think it finally refined itself.
Speaker 2: But I know that that's where it's like when you
Speaker 2: talk your question was more about the game of golf
Speaker 2: in general, but I know I took it to that direction.
Speaker 2: But I think with me, it's like kind of seeing
Speaker 2: the old and the new coming in in Texas. That's
Speaker 2: been on the forefront of my mind a lot.
Speaker 1: I think also when you're a competitive golfer, your job
Speaker 1: is to get the ball in the hole in the
Speaker 1: fust amount of shots, and like you're playing professional golf.
Speaker 1: Like I if I was a professional golfer, I think
Speaker 1: I would have a hard time wanting anything to change
Speaker 1: because with the with the clubs I have, the equipment
Speaker 1: I have, I got here, I got to the highest
Speaker 1: level of the game, and I understand that sentiment. I
Speaker 1: do think, like the reality when you play recreational golf,
Speaker 1: and if you're aware of what's going around you, you see,
Speaker 1: like I have buddies who are like sixteen handicaps who
Speaker 1: hit the ball three hundred yards and it's like where
Speaker 1: they hit it is like a complete crapshoot, you know,
Speaker 1: it goes like it goes miles offline, and it's like, well,
Speaker 1: like this probably isn't it. It's not. I think like
Speaker 1: maybe the messaging problem is that it isn't just a
Speaker 1: professional golf issue in the distance the thing I struggle
Speaker 1: with on the professional golf level. And I'm curious where
Speaker 1: what you think about this is like the way the
Speaker 1: driver heads evolved even during like your time out there,
Speaker 1: where this for the forgiveness has gotten so great that
Speaker 1: it almost has become less It has become less and
Speaker 1: less important to hit the center of the sweet spot
Speaker 1: on a driver.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think it definitely has gotten easier.
Speaker 2: I think you know what's funny is like I've had
Speaker 2: this conversation with multiple people from the USGA that are
Speaker 2: just buddies, just you know, kind of shooting the breeze,
Speaker 2: and that they've asked me, like, what's your stance? I'm like,
Speaker 2: you want to know how to get under four hours?
Speaker 2: Real quick? Draw it back to where the longest guy
Speaker 2: is two hundred and sixty yards, Like that's real easy,
Speaker 2: Like instead of this walking back eighty yards to this
Speaker 2: new tea that you guys are so proud of that
Speaker 2: costs one hundred grand to build. How about we played
Speaker 2: the old tea and then that saved this a little
Speaker 2: bit of time there. Now that walking in between holes
Speaker 2: gets faster, I'm all for ball going way shorter, but
Speaker 2: it would be you know, it has to be done
Speaker 2: the right way. I think. Where my the issue where
Speaker 2: I kind of got lost with it is when the
Speaker 2: talk of bifurcation in general, I'm like, you look at
Speaker 2: it in terms of a player development. Does a kid
Speaker 2: who let's say is getting really like, let's say there's
Speaker 2: just a pro level a PG tour, decides to bifurkate.
Speaker 2: The problem with that is in general, does a kid
Speaker 2: now play what's in theory inferior equipment while they're in
Speaker 2: college and they're going through development to get to the
Speaker 2: PGA tour, or do they play what's in thought of
Speaker 2: superior equipment and then they get to the tour and
Speaker 2: they play something completely different? So like there's no win there.
Speaker 2: But when it comes to yes, like are there more
Speaker 2: people just randomly hitting it miles offline and really really far? Yes,
Speaker 2: but I would my personal stance of it is extremely
Speaker 2: drastic and probably would be something that would be totally ignored.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, look, when I'm at home and I'm
Speaker 2: playing in Dallas, I'll play thirty six holes in five
Speaker 2: hours by myself. Like I love playing fast and I
Speaker 2: love whizzing around as much as I can. I don't
Speaker 2: like playing the back tease if I played the afternoon
Speaker 2: round either, just because I want to mix it up
Speaker 2: on some holes. But so that's where I'm like, look
Speaker 2: the amount of times that I swear I got I'm
Speaker 2: on a par three on tour and it's like we're
Speaker 2: like walking it off and it's like perfectly two hundred,
Speaker 2: like right on the number. I'm like, are you guys
Speaker 2: trying to get here? Like I'm just kind of curious,
Speaker 2: like like why is it always two hundred, like right
Speaker 2: on the number, Like you might have like a plus
Speaker 2: six or a minus six for the updown or whatever,
Speaker 2: but I'm like it's always right there. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: I do agree that miss hits has gotten easier. There
Speaker 2: is a little bit of the bombing gouge that has
Speaker 2: definitely helped a lot in terms of strategy. You know,
Speaker 2: like when I my first tour event I ever played in,
Speaker 2: It's twenty seventeen at Rivira Number ten. I think it
Speaker 2: was like sixty percent went for it and now it's
Speaker 2: like ninety five percent or going for it, and so
Speaker 2: there is a little bit of that aspect to it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean when you see something kids in
Speaker 2: college and they're just like they're just popping off like
Speaker 2: one eighty five one ninety ball speeds, that part of
Speaker 2: it is ridiculous. Like that's something that I'm just like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I see the trend. I know where this is going.
Speaker 2: But then it's like you always have to think about
Speaker 2: the common golfer too, because it's like we're at a
Speaker 2: golf boom post COVID, we have most golfers we've ever had,
Speaker 2: you know, playing in the United States. Ever, like, let's
Speaker 2: not make this a detriment. And I think at first
Speaker 2: that's kind of how it got presented, was now everyone's
Speaker 2: going to hit it way shorter, and it's like that's
Speaker 2: not like, let's not piss off the people we just got,
Speaker 2: you know. So I don't know, I I wrestle with it.
Speaker 2: I don't know for the recreational golfer, I am intrigued
Speaker 2: to try the prototype ball. I haven't I to be
Speaker 2: totally honest with the titleists, will probably give us some
Speaker 2: prototypes pretty soon to just kind of try and get
Speaker 2: our feedback. They won't be the final ball, they always
Speaker 2: do that, but they're really obviously looking at the future.
Speaker 2: Forty pits in that crew there are so freaking good
Speaker 2: that That's why I'm like, what are you going to
Speaker 2: to do? Like drop back for a year for three
Speaker 2: yards and then they're going to find a way to
Speaker 2: get it figure that out, Like, yeah, I might go
Speaker 2: a little crooked, but no one's going to really notice that.
Speaker 2: I mean, if anything, guys can be like, god, I
Speaker 2: just need to figure this out my golf game, Like
Speaker 2: what is this? You know?
Speaker 1: So if the history of ball regulation and golf can
Speaker 1: teach us anything is that if you give engineers like
Speaker 1: specs to to innovate against, they're going to end up
Speaker 1: in the same spot that they're in.
Speaker 2: And that was the best one ever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's just it's going to be the same
Speaker 1: by the time we get there. And I just I
Speaker 1: agree with you in the sense of what if you
Speaker 1: wanted to make an impact, you had to get super aggressive.
Speaker 1: It should have been like and nobody would have gone
Speaker 1: for it. But if you had said, we're gonna knock
Speaker 1: five percent off drivers where all of a sudden we're
Speaker 1: talking about like somebody who hits a three twenty is
Speaker 1: sixty yards shorter. You know, then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you would get somewhere with pace of play like you
Speaker 1: talked about, the ball would go further less offline. And
Speaker 1: I think then, like what you were talking about with
Speaker 1: the with the I'm going to nine iron, they're going
Speaker 1: to six or seven. If you're going down to a
Speaker 1: let's just call it like a a six iron and
Speaker 1: they're going to four iron, that fairway rough dynamic might
Speaker 1: have like a little bit more of a sure quill
Speaker 1: waiting right for sure. And that's like the game got.
Speaker 1: The game got so far out of balance that I
Speaker 1: I don't know how you put the genie back in
Speaker 1: the bottle without a like huge change. And I do
Speaker 1: I do agree with you on on the the the
Speaker 1: kids growing up, like what what do they do? But
Speaker 1: I think baseball, I mean, like I'm I'm actually would
Speaker 1: be curious to hear like a baseball scout talk about
Speaker 1: like how do they how do they figure out which
Speaker 1: kids can transition from aluminum to wood bats without like
Speaker 1: losing power? You know, Yeah, it's fascinating. I didn't expect
Speaker 1: to get there, get here, there, get to this topic.
Speaker 1: This's early, but I you know, before we I mean,
Speaker 1: we could talk about this for for hours. But I
Speaker 1: I'm curious, you know, you with these back injuries, I
Speaker 1: imagine that you've worked on your putting a ton. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think, like, listen, the putting. Your putting has
Speaker 1: been uh, you know, straw on the interest of of
Speaker 1: widespread audience over the years. You switched a broom, and
Speaker 1: I think like one of the things that is fascinating
Speaker 1: people like get mad about people switching your broom, but
Speaker 1: like you're learning a completely new motion. It's a completely
Speaker 1: different style of putting. Like you've put it one way
Speaker 1: your whole life. You go to you know, you went
Speaker 1: to obviously the arm block, and then you went to
Speaker 1: the broom. How much more comfortable are you now after
Speaker 1: a couple of years than say that first year when
Speaker 1: you switched.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so much more comfortable. I just have a better
Speaker 2: understanding of how to use it. I started working a
Speaker 2: little bit with Blair Phillip on my putting this go
Speaker 2: around this offseason, and he's taught me so much. I mean,
Speaker 2: just a lot of ownership and kind of like how
Speaker 2: to use a broom. I think I had just kind
Speaker 2: of figured it out myself talk to some of the
Speaker 2: older guys and kind of how they had used it,
Speaker 2: and then just kind of gone from there, you know,
Speaker 2: talk to Sam Han from you know Lab and I.
Speaker 2: You know, the thing that's so cool about it is
Speaker 2: that you kind of still have to make it your own.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it was a completely different tool to learn
Speaker 2: how to use. And I think like the part that's
Speaker 2: fun about it now is I've always been really linear
Speaker 2: and I've I've always anytime that I got really off,
Speaker 2: I would not be able to see my like a
Speaker 2: straight line, and so it would be like that on
Speaker 2: comfort would kind of come from there, and so I
Speaker 2: think when I went to the broom, it just immediately
Speaker 2: cleaned up, where everything just gave me like straight lines
Speaker 2: to just kind of aim at every single puts a
Speaker 2: dead flats straight putt. And so kind of what I've
Speaker 2: worked on with Blair over the last couple of months
Speaker 2: is like, hey, get a PhD. And how you see
Speaker 2: greens red and how you see your lines better? And
Speaker 2: that immediately kind of freed me up to be way
Speaker 2: more process oriented as opposed to like, oh I hope
Speaker 2: I make this, you know, like that kind of you know,
Speaker 2: four foot lag is like I used to jokingly call it,
Speaker 2: you know, So it's like I think the part for
Speaker 2: me now is it's like I had kind of tried
Speaker 2: so many different things for a while with putting that
Speaker 2: I needed to try something new and then stick with
Speaker 2: it and then immediately it clicked. And learning how to
Speaker 2: use it, I think, is something that it's like it's
Speaker 2: a skill, like it's it's like anytime that I go
Speaker 2: back to like old putting mechanics, like I will pull
Speaker 2: the living crap out of the ball, like it's it's
Speaker 2: really funny, like it's like this thing is like I'm
Speaker 2: holding this in. There's two ways to basically putt with
Speaker 2: a broom at least like how Sam Honill tell you
Speaker 2: is you have the right hand motor, which that's just
Speaker 2: kind of sweeping from underneath, and then you have the triangle,
Speaker 2: which is kind of how Adam Scott putts and how
Speaker 2: I try to mirror it putting. And at that side
Speaker 2: of it is like everything just kind of gets locked in.
Speaker 2: You see your line, and then you go from there
Speaker 2: and you rock it, and I think that's just it's
Speaker 2: made it so simple for me, and that's the biggest difference.
Speaker 2: And so when I was kind of like, I didn't
Speaker 2: really putt very well through kind of the start of
Speaker 2: this year, and I was I was hurting pretty bad.
Speaker 2: I mean, I probably shouldn't have even really started this year.
Speaker 2: But I think the thing that this time has given
Speaker 2: me is just a lot of time to just work
Speaker 2: on my short game in general and really learn how
Speaker 2: to use that thing. And so you know, when you're
Speaker 2: in Dallas and you have guys like Scotty and Jordan
Speaker 2: and some other you know, really good players, you kind
Speaker 2: of learned really quickly where your game's at, even if
Speaker 2: you're not playing in tournaments. And so yeah, it's made
Speaker 2: putting fun again. That's the thing for sure. I think
Speaker 2: is probably the best way to kind of put it.
Speaker 1: I could you you obviously throughout your life have been
Speaker 1: you know, the life that you know, since I've been
Speaker 1: covering off a sublime te degreen player, like as good
Speaker 1: as it gets in the world at you know, driving
Speaker 1: a ball iron play. What was it like in your
Speaker 1: kind of lowest moments with the putter, you know, particularly
Speaker 1: I imagine when you had yet to make the PGA Tour,
Speaker 1: what what was that frustrate What did that frustration feel like?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know the part where it got
Speaker 2: or where it gets hard. I wouldn't even solely just
Speaker 2: put it as putting as much as it was just
Speaker 2: like getting there, because it was like, okay, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you gotta go play Monday qualifiers at this point, or
Speaker 2: go play Canada. Well you gotta go shoot twenty five hundred.
Speaker 2: They're pitching putts, you gotta you gotta find a way
Speaker 2: to get the ball in the hole no matter what.
Speaker 2: So doing the Monday shooting sixty six is and going
Speaker 2: being on a flight home that afternoon really wasn't that fun.
Speaker 2: And so having to really kind of work my way
Speaker 2: through that kind of gave me a lot of the
Speaker 2: belief in what I was doing. Now. Of course, there
Speaker 2: are moments where it's like, yeah, like what the hell
Speaker 2: is going on? You know, I work my tail off
Speaker 2: and I'm you know, playing terrible. I think that's where
Speaker 2: it just gives you the appreciation of when it's like
Speaker 2: you have those moments to like win a tournament or
Speaker 2: whatever where it's like, yeah, I've been through it like this,
Speaker 2: these are the this is the scards issue that I have.
Speaker 2: But I've always succeeded, like at every level that I've
Speaker 2: played at, where it's almost like, you know, it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: we had a decent junior career, Well he didn't want
Speaker 2: won the US Junior and a bunch of amateur events
Speaker 2: his senior year. Going into his freshman year of college,
Speaker 2: well he was okay in college. You want a couple
Speaker 2: of times like other players have done a lot more
Speaker 2: at wake, and then it was like all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: I leave early, I have a year where I try
Speaker 2: to turn pro that didn't really work out. I finally
Speaker 2: get my status through Cornfiry, then I have COVID, and
Speaker 2: then I'm stuck on Corn for another year. So like
Speaker 2: there was kind of a little bit of like more
Speaker 2: so just dealing with the junk of just being a
Speaker 2: pro where it's like, Okay, when's my next start? How
Speaker 2: am I going to go? You know what? You know,
Speaker 2: here's my end goals. So like when things weren't really
Speaker 2: going that well, you still kind of like, all right,
Speaker 2: I've always succeeded no matter where I've been, Like I've
Speaker 2: wanted every level you know, I'm going to find a
Speaker 2: way to get there somehow, someway, even if it's an
Speaker 2: insane belief. But that was just kind of where I
Speaker 2: was with it, and I tried a lot of different things.
Speaker 2: You know, I worked with a lot of different coaches,
Speaker 2: but I think like the simplest method that I've come
Speaker 2: up with, and it's like it's just natural, Like now,
Speaker 2: that's just it's like when I picked that up, it's
Speaker 2: actually made whenever I pick up a short putter better,
Speaker 2: you know. So it's just it's stuff like that where
Speaker 2: it's like I know how I like to putt, and
Speaker 2: as opposed to trying some other method or hey, this
Speaker 2: doesn't work, let's try something completely new, it's like, now,
Speaker 2: let's just you're really good at this, let's stick with that.
Speaker 1: It's it's funny. I I always, when I was younger,
Speaker 1: struggled with putting and I went to a belly putter
Speaker 1: for a period of time. I'm showing my age here.
Speaker 1: I tried that when I came I tried it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when I came out of it, though, I was so
Speaker 1: much better with a short putter. I've been like, you know,
Speaker 1: I feel like I've been great with the short putter
Speaker 1: ever since then. And it's like sometimes even just trying
Speaker 1: different stuff helps you with the you know, it's like
Speaker 1: the opposite of everybody's like just go lock yourself on
Speaker 1: a putting green and hit the three footers. Well, like
Speaker 1: sometimes that does not help, you know, Like yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Think, yeah, I think where for me, like when I
Speaker 2: look back on kind of where I used to just
Speaker 2: be so results oriented as a kid, Like everything I
Speaker 2: did was results oriented and it was like, oh, I
Speaker 2: got to get this to get that, And it's kind
Speaker 2: of like it's a good reminder for where I'm at
Speaker 2: back on tour right now, where it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: we don't really know what the schedule kind of looks
Speaker 2: like in general, let alone especially for me where it's
Speaker 2: like Okay, you've got a major medical you're gonna get
Speaker 2: in all the regular events where it's like I'm leaving
Speaker 2: Sunday to go to Palm Springs. Am I leaving for
Speaker 2: two weeks? Or am I leaving for six? I don't know?
Speaker 2: So you know, I think you know that part of
Speaker 2: it is uh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I imagine the putting, you know, and just
Speaker 1: the journey the COVID situation that you dealt with and
Speaker 1: just the you know, the journey to the PGA Tour,
Speaker 1: which like a lot of your peers were just some
Speaker 1: of them were straight, you know, obviously, Scottie. It took
Speaker 1: a little bit of time, but that journey probably helped
Speaker 1: you a little bit with the injuries that you've been
Speaker 1: going through and just your mindset through those.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I mean I would say, you know, I
Speaker 2: had my when I had my first back surgery in
Speaker 2: twenty three, I had to go back in for surgery
Speaker 2: five weeks later for a revision. You know, that time
Speaker 2: was pretty hard because it was like I'm starting kind
Speaker 2: of over here with my body. I have no idea
Speaker 2: where I'm at. My first event back, I'm playing at
Speaker 2: Hero I finished in last by nine. I'm like, oh god,
Speaker 2: this year is gonna be interesting. I have no idea
Speaker 2: what well, you know, what's going to happen. And coming
Speaker 2: out and having a top ten in a major, you know,
Speaker 2: finishing second again, you know, I think was pretty solidifying
Speaker 2: where it's like, okay, like on any given week, I
Speaker 2: can play good. It's just a matter of let's get healthy.
Speaker 2: And I really like I was kind of getting by
Speaker 2: by cortizone shots, you know, where it was like getting
Speaker 2: them every quarter and that, honestly, like it kind of
Speaker 2: affected a lot of my putting because I'm standing taller
Speaker 2: with the broom like you know, putting with something that's
Speaker 2: forty five plus inches. You know, I would putt for
Speaker 2: hours and hours like you said, where it's like he'd
Speaker 2: be on the putting green it's like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I missed a three footer. I'm gonna go hitting nine
Speaker 2: million of them and it's like, well, that's not good
Speaker 2: for a guy with herniated diss in his back either.
Speaker 2: By the way, Like this isn't just because I have
Speaker 2: a big sea bend and you know at the time
Speaker 2: of my golf swing, it's like this, this is the
Speaker 2: mixed bag of both. Like I'm not just like hitting
Speaker 2: a million golf balls and ignoring my putting either, Like
Speaker 2: if anything, I'm overworking my putting and that's causing more issues.
Speaker 2: And so like now getting back to like just playing
Speaker 2: where as opposed to like you know, doing all of
Speaker 2: that where it's just so much like granular work and
Speaker 2: putting hours and hours and hours in it's now it's
Speaker 2: just so nice to just slap the mirror down, check
Speaker 2: my eyes, you know, do a few speed drills and sick.
Speaker 2: All right, let just keep a moving. Let's go play
Speaker 2: some golf. What do you guys want to play for?
Speaker 2: You know that stuff that I'd missed for years, you know,
Speaker 2: but like when I really I think in twenty three
Speaker 2: was probably the scariest it had been. And I made
Speaker 2: myself busy by going back to school, you know, this
Speaker 2: go around, I try to make golf as fun as
Speaker 2: I could with upon my comeback, where it's like, all right,
Speaker 2: the fun of golf had been taken away from me
Speaker 2: for two years, Let's go play some fun golf. Like,
Speaker 2: let's go play some new places, like let's go you know.
Speaker 2: I had the California and at cal Club for one night,
Speaker 2: and then the next morning I was picked up by
Speaker 2: a buddy at five am. I went and played Cyprus
Speaker 2: like like you know, stuff like that. It's like for
Speaker 2: the love of the game type thing, you know, getting
Speaker 2: up early, you know, stuff like that where yeah, it's
Speaker 2: just kind of fun to do it again. Where I think,
Speaker 2: you know, there were times where it's like I was
Speaker 2: so frustrated with my game and my body felt so bad.
Speaker 2: It's like man, I'm on tour and this sucks. Like this,
Speaker 2: this is no fun. So getting back to that thing,
Speaker 2: I think when you've gone through things that even as
Speaker 2: simple as like driving four and a half hours to
Speaker 2: save like six hundred bucks on a rental car like
Speaker 2: seven or eight years ago, it kind of puts things
Speaker 2: in perspective when you're sitting here now all these years later.
Speaker 2: You know, TJ Tour equity owner Winter on tour and
Speaker 2: you're like, damn, I got to sit this one out
Speaker 2: for six months. It's like, thanks gonna be a lot worse, dude,
Speaker 2: It's gonna be a lot worse.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I think that a lot. You think you
Speaker 1: think back to your younger years and some of the
Speaker 1: crazy things you do when you have to save money.
Speaker 1: So a stat that, uh is someone on my staff
Speaker 1: unearthed Joseph Levonia, four player of four golfers in the
Speaker 1: history of the sport of finished in the top ten
Speaker 1: in their first three Masters appearance appearances. Do you know
Speaker 1: who they are?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: I don't, so you're one of them, but yeah, you're good.
Speaker 1: Buddy speak is another one, and then it's Paul Runyon
Speaker 1: from thirty four to thirty six and Ralph Goodall, also
Speaker 1: Dallas resident from thirty seven to thirty nine, so very
Speaker 1: long time. What would you say has made you so
Speaker 1: successful at Augusta National.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's I mean, for one, ball
Speaker 2: striking it around that place, like there's been so many
Speaker 2: different winners. That's that's one thing. But ball striking your
Speaker 2: way around that place makes putting so much easier. It's incredible.
Speaker 2: So you know, like I think I think the year
Speaker 2: I finished second, I played five and five and eleven,
Speaker 2: and even I think another year I played five and
Speaker 2: eleven and like one or two wonder in total, Like
Speaker 2: just ball striking my way around and putting him in
Speaker 2: the right like Ken high in the right spots, being
Speaker 2: really good at lag putting for one, I mean, just
Speaker 2: knowing where to miss it. Like I just feel like
Speaker 2: around that place, anytime that I've played poorly, it's just
Speaker 2: blown like forty and I've just misjudged wins like crazy,
Speaker 2: you know, winds bouncing all over the place like they
Speaker 2: normally do. But yeah, I just I think the part
Speaker 2: that I love about that place is that it's like
Speaker 2: there's it's the one place to go every year and
Speaker 2: there's never like there never is anything to lose. But
Speaker 2: it's like, all right, I finished second in three majors.
Speaker 2: Now I really don't care for looking at silver every
Speaker 2: night I go to bed, you know, So I think
Speaker 2: that part of it too early on in my career,
Speaker 2: having the second that close has just kind of freed
Speaker 2: me up when I go there. But yeah, I just
Speaker 2: I love. It's hard not to just fall in love
Speaker 2: with that place, you know, Like I get so arrogant
Speaker 2: when I play there, Like internally when I play that,
Speaker 2: I'm pulling off shots that even my cat he's like
Speaker 2: there was one year that I was hit it right
Speaker 2: at the bunk around eight off the tee, and I
Speaker 2: had a gap like two and a half feet with
Speaker 2: a bunch of mud on the ball, and and I
Speaker 2: was like, I'm in thirty second. I really don't care.
Speaker 2: Like if this ball hits the tree, we make set,
Speaker 2: we make seven or eight, like we're gonna finish forty fifth,
Speaker 2: Like like this ball needs to get through the trees.
Speaker 2: I've hit it through the trees, made Birdie and he's
Speaker 2: just like sick. You know the memory of Augusta, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, to get the crystal whenever you make the
Speaker 2: Eagles too, so like you know, I've drinking out of
Speaker 2: those whenever in the off season you come home, you're like,
Speaker 2: damn this, I want some more of this. But Scotty
Speaker 2: and Jordan too, growing up with them them having the
Speaker 2: success there right away, I think he's also just kind
Speaker 2: of freed me up around that place. But yeah, it's
Speaker 2: just it's just so fun the buzz around that place.
Speaker 2: Like I think, I it's the event that I embrace
Speaker 2: the mouse for sure, because I think it's you know,
Speaker 2: it's changed my life in a lot of different ways,
Speaker 2: that event. So it's it's kind of one of those
Speaker 2: where it's like even with all the dynamics of the
Speaker 2: tour changing, like if I'm not in the signatures, like
Speaker 2: I may go to the South African Open because the
Speaker 2: winner gets the spot and the masters in the top
Speaker 2: three Narder qualified are in the Open Championship, where it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's what I'm That's what that's why I play this game,
Speaker 2: Like that's you know, we have a lot of cool
Speaker 2: stuff on tour and all, but it's like this is
Speaker 2: this is the main the main treat.
Speaker 1: So something you mentioned earlier is like the frustration of
Speaker 1: Monday qualifiers and pitch and putt Canadian tour courses where like, effectively,
Speaker 1: you know, if you shoot sixty six four days in
Speaker 1: a row, you're going to be right around the lead
Speaker 1: of almost any tournament at a at a Monday qualifier,
Speaker 1: you're not even sniffing, you know, oftentimes getting through it.
Speaker 2: I shot sixty four and have not been in a playoff. Yeah, No,
Speaker 2: it's real. It is real.
Speaker 1: And a lot of that goes to like the level
Speaker 1: of golf course in this sense of and what I
Speaker 1: think is is you know you hit on is the
Speaker 1: ball striking is like Augusta National, the demands that it
Speaker 1: puts on your shot making, particularly from fairways, because you're
Speaker 1: I think it's a sneaky, tough driving course, but you
Speaker 1: have to drive it well, it's a prerequisite. But like
Speaker 1: if you're hitting balls from fairways, they're rarely from flat lies,
Speaker 1: and there is like completely right and wrong places to
Speaker 1: miss it. And then the targets of having makeable birdies
Speaker 1: are so small, right, very that all pure combination of
Speaker 1: all those factors.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think so like when you take
Speaker 2: the back nine in particular, there's all you can look
Speaker 2: like I could dissect like all four pins and this
Speaker 2: bunker on this hole will be great for this pin,
Speaker 2: horrendous for the next one, like but the beauty of
Speaker 2: I would say, like kind of a funny kind of
Speaker 2: happenstance thing was a couple of years ago, like I
Speaker 2: had done Tiger's Charity then a little a couple of
Speaker 2: times up in New York. Was super early on a Monday,
Speaker 2: and I was just thinking I was gonna have a
Speaker 2: nice little cruise into my week play the back nine
Speaker 2: at the Gusts at eight am, and he goes, hey,
Speaker 2: do you want to have a game, And I'm like,
Speaker 2: what am I supposed to say? No? Like? And so
Speaker 2: I ended up joining him for the back and watching
Speaker 2: him like practice the lags and like go through the
Speaker 2: different sections, like the putting. Like it was the most
Speaker 2: worthless nine hole practice round I've ever had personally for
Speaker 2: my game in terms of what I did that day,
Speaker 2: because I did absolutely nothing and just was over my
Speaker 2: shoulder the entire time watching what he was doing like
Speaker 2: anybody else would do, but watching him dissect the different
Speaker 2: sections of the greens and the different spots and chipping
Speaker 2: it kind of confirmed a lot of like what I thought,
Speaker 2: But it was even more in the sense of like
Speaker 2: picking his brain on like of little what he would
Speaker 2: give me, you know, obviously like on twelve, of like
Speaker 2: where he would aim. Stuff like that. I think was
Speaker 2: there's just so much strategy that gets involved where it's
Speaker 2: like to your point, like you can hit something in
Speaker 2: the fat side of a fairway, but it's gonna be
Speaker 2: that much more destrimental on your second shot. Like thirteen,
Speaker 2: if you hug the trees up the left side of
Speaker 2: the you know, the left middle half of the fairway,
Speaker 2: you're gonna be sitting on a dead flat lie. Now, granted,
Speaker 2: it's gonna be a little bit of a kind of
Speaker 2: a tough wrangle to get in there. But if you
Speaker 2: hit something over on the fat side of the fair
Speaker 2: on the right, the ball is so far above your
Speaker 2: feet that you're like, I got to aim a six
Speaker 2: iron right at this creek, and I gotta trust that
Speaker 2: this ball is gonna hook over. But I know that
Speaker 2: there's wind coming in off the left that I can't feel.
Speaker 2: There's just a lot of that that goes on around there,
Speaker 2: and you kind of have to know pick and choose
Speaker 2: your situations. It's just I think the part like there's
Speaker 2: just been so many different winners. But to your point,
Speaker 2: it's the white narrowest golf course you're ever gonna play.
Speaker 2: Like you have like the fairways like number ten fairway
Speaker 2: from from like the widest point has got to be
Speaker 2: ninety yards wide. But if you want to hit it
Speaker 2: down there to where you have like an eight or
Speaker 2: a seven are and inn, you have to hook this
Speaker 2: thing thirty five yards and it needs to carry two
Speaker 2: seventy five. Like there's a lot of demand it. I
Speaker 2: guess that goes around there. And the shot shaping, I
Speaker 2: think is where I excel a lot in. But I
Speaker 2: will say this the first couple of year, the first
Speaker 2: year or so, I was there the end of the grain,
Speaker 2: like it's real, like it is like down like hitting
Speaker 2: off a downhill on nine like in its mode backup hill,
Speaker 2: Like it's very real. So I think like for a while,
Speaker 2: like my wedge player around Augusta was so bad because
Speaker 2: that would just be like the wedge would just stick
Speaker 2: in the ground ball right up the face. And it
Speaker 2: finally had to be like okay, Texas kid, get rid
Speaker 2: of the four degrees and hinge it into the turf,
Speaker 2: like learn how to shallow it. But it's just there's
Speaker 2: so many little intricacies around that place.
Speaker 1: So what you're saying is to play it to hit
Speaker 1: really good wedges at Augusta, you just have to be
Speaker 1: super shallow because then that grain's impacting the club a
Speaker 1: little bit less.
Speaker 2: It just like it's funny, so I I it's you
Speaker 2: can get some down grain spots that you can just
Speaker 2: hit some nasty, really like beautiful spinning wedges, you know,
Speaker 2: short sided shots from around the green, and then you
Speaker 2: have these like into the grainers where you're like, if
Speaker 2: this fall kind of rides up the face, this thing
Speaker 2: could seriously just like land on the green and roll
Speaker 2: out forty feet. And the thing that I've always told
Speaker 2: people and asked me, like, what's something you don't expect
Speaker 2: about Augusta, it's actually more of the fringes. Like their
Speaker 2: fringes are so brilliantly built because everywhere where they're chipping,
Speaker 2: they're always making the chipping harder. So like on the
Speaker 2: left side of thirteen, the fringe falls this way, so
Speaker 2: like all of a sudden, the second like a ball
Speaker 2: lands up on the green, it's just immediately going downhill.
Speaker 2: And then behind fifteen it goes, it tilts back towards
Speaker 2: the front of the water. So if you land something
Speaker 2: over the back of the green, you're chipping back, bumping
Speaker 2: it into the hill. But if it literally gets set
Speaker 2: of two bounces, it gets won. It's literally in the water.
Speaker 2: So like there's just a lot of like the Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna hit this to twelve feet, take my look,
Speaker 2: and if I make it, I make it. But you know,
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden on Sunday, that's you know,
Speaker 2: things might change a little bit.
Speaker 1: But it's as fascinating. I would contend that the worst
Speaker 1: feeling in golf is when a ball is rolling up
Speaker 1: the face of your ledge.
Speaker 2: Well you know what was really is so w and
Speaker 2: Rory hit the wedge on thirteen when he won this year,
Speaker 2: and he hit it in the water. I didn't want
Speaker 2: to say like I could see that happening because that
Speaker 2: just sounds like such a jackass comment to say. But
Speaker 2: I was like, I've done that. I've totally done that,
Speaker 2: Like like I know that feeling, or I'm like, ball
Speaker 2: just glances off the face. I'm like, oh no, that's
Speaker 2: short and right. I'm like, but I just was laughing
Speaker 2: watching that where I was like, that is a all
Speaker 2: of us are feeling from in that moment. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I literally had done that on that exact doll.
Speaker 1: How would you say your course management philosophy has adapted
Speaker 1: or is it just stayed the same since you turned pro?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think you know a lot of it.
Speaker 2: I've I've stayed pretty true to who I am, where
Speaker 2: I typically will pick really conservative targets, move them to
Speaker 2: the spot where I'm trying to go, and if I
Speaker 2: overwork them, then I look like a hero. And that's
Speaker 2: probably why I hit so many greens, I think. And
Speaker 2: then the other thing I would say is that I've
Speaker 2: really learned that when I'm aggressive, like being able to
Speaker 2: hit something hard and hooking to a left pin, I've
Speaker 2: always been very good with anything. A little bit softer
Speaker 2: has kind of been something I've worked on, especially with
Speaker 2: me having a new back, is just being a little
Speaker 2: bit shower and being better at just timing up like
Speaker 2: the shorter three quarter shots, so I you know, like
Speaker 2: back left pins, front right pins, like obviously as a variety,
Speaker 2: those are things you love, but I always loved kind
Speaker 2: of like working them in there. But whenever I kind
Speaker 2: of got really going. People would always think that I'd
Speaker 2: be firing at Flags, and I'm still not. You know,
Speaker 2: so I think like I've definitely gotten to a point
Speaker 2: where I'm still shaping it both ways, but I'm still
Speaker 2: picking really conservative targets based off of what you probably
Speaker 2: think I'm doing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like I remember vividly like I was,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of looking through the leaderboard on Saturday
Speaker 1: at Brookline and you know me as a media member,
Speaker 1: you know, you on Saturdays of tight tournaments, you're kind
Speaker 1: of just like throwing a dart at the wall of like,
Speaker 1: who Who's going to play well? And I remember I
Speaker 1: was like, uh, I'm gonna go watch will z l
Speaker 1: Taurus play And that day that was one of the
Speaker 1: best rounds of golf I've seen in a long time
Speaker 1: that that course had gotten so Saturday Saturday, I feel
Speaker 1: like maybe Friday was it Friday, I don't know, one
Speaker 1: of those.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that week I played, Yeah, I mean not just
Speaker 2: flat out beat me that week. I was like that
Speaker 2: whole week, I felt like I played so good. That's
Speaker 2: why I was like, yeah, every day felt good.
Speaker 1: But that route, you know, it looked like you watch
Speaker 1: it and it's you're moving the ball right to left, left,
Speaker 1: right and into all those all the You're hitting it
Speaker 1: close all over the place, and it was, you know,
Speaker 1: like full it looked like full command, but really you're
Speaker 1: you're you're still amy away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, so the theory, like, at least this
Speaker 2: is my theory, and it's a little bit of I'm
Speaker 2: stealing it a little bit from some other. Like I've
Speaker 2: heard this from two quarterbacks. I'll say this, one of
Speaker 2: the pros, one is the college player, and both of
Speaker 2: them have said that anytime that they've been able to
Speaker 2: feel like they're able to commit to throwing something one
Speaker 2: hundred percent, like they have some route that they love
Speaker 2: that they know that they can just sling one as
Speaker 2: hard as they can, or a lead a receiver. So
Speaker 2: my point with that is that it's like when I'm
Speaker 2: on eighteen at Sawgrass, like most people are probably slinging
Speaker 2: like an iron up the right or a hybrid, and
Speaker 2: I'm aiming in the middle of the lake and I'm
Speaker 2: hammering that fade. Because my theory is if I'm going
Speaker 2: to fade something, I'm going to do it one hundred percent,
Speaker 2: Like I want to fully commit to that fade. Not like, oh,
Speaker 2: I want to steer this draw over, you know. So
Speaker 2: that's where for me, I think my ball striking, like
Speaker 2: I've kind of had that mindset where I'm like, hey,
Speaker 2: it pins on the right, I'm going to aim, you know,
Speaker 2: five steps left of it, but I'm going to start
Speaker 2: a fade four steps left that and then if I
Speaker 2: overcut it, you know, I'm able to commit to hitting
Speaker 2: that cut, and I know that if I overcut, it's
Speaker 2: still gonna end up on the right side of the green.
Speaker 2: And if it's just the perfect amount of faith, then
Speaker 2: you're like, man, he's firing at everything today. It's like, no,
Speaker 2: not really. I mean, so I do. I don't really
Speaker 2: get in the mindset of firing at flags, Like I
Speaker 2: don't just like drop everything and start going and stuff.
Speaker 2: I might get a little more aggressive off the tee,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I just it's just kind of like, give
Speaker 2: me the best chance to make up and down. That's
Speaker 2: like kind of the mindset that I have. And it's
Speaker 2: like firing at this flag from two hundred and not
Speaker 2: gonna be it, you know. So, I mean I do
Speaker 2: think a lot of it is just picked, you know.
Speaker 2: I think there's one guy you said it best where
Speaker 2: it's like, how do you shoot sixty five on tour
Speaker 2: and it's you thirty All the par fives, you probably
Speaker 2: hit a wedge or too close and you make it
Speaker 2: thirty footer and it's like, that's Devin, and you did
Speaker 2: one thing that was probably special, and that's the third.
Speaker 2: And so I think that's kind of where I come
Speaker 2: from a little bit where it's like kind of the
Speaker 2: death by a thousand paper cuts. And that's why I
Speaker 2: played so well in the Majors. Like there was I
Speaker 2: think it was it might have been that Saturday at Brookline,
Speaker 2: but like I was actively hitting chip shots away from
Speaker 2: flag sticks just because I was like, if I go
Speaker 2: to this flag, like I could hit this thing to
Speaker 2: thirty feet, but if I just kind of baild this
Speaker 2: thing out over here, I'm gonna have ten guaranteed. And
Speaker 2: I would take the ten guaranteed. And then that week
Speaker 2: I just made the ten footer. So that's where some
Speaker 2: of that kind of mindset was kind of coming from,
Speaker 2: where it's like six is gonna kill you, five is not.
Speaker 2: But the weeks that I played well in the Majors,
Speaker 2: I ended up making all those part butts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, hard golf's interesting. I you know, my
Speaker 1: limited career, I always played best in like state ams
Speaker 1: where I knew I had seventy two holes and a
Speaker 1: bogie here or there wouldn't kill you, because it's just
Speaker 1: a different mindset at when the when the challenge, when
Speaker 1: the course and the conditioning ramps up, where like, okay,
Speaker 1: I can make a bogie. It almost is a freeing mindset.
Speaker 2: I find like when I played my first US Open
Speaker 2: at Pebble Beach, I'm going to play so bad in
Speaker 2: those practice rounds because we've played it as the pro
Speaker 2: am for something for all those years, Like I'm gonna
Speaker 2: be I'm just gonna go there. I'm gonna be like,
Speaker 2: what the hell is this? Like I've been able to
Speaker 2: make up and down behind eight every single time, Like
Speaker 2: I can't even keep it on the golf course.
Speaker 1: That's funny. I never thought about it from like a eight.
Speaker 1: I like, I always think it's like it's kind of weird,
Speaker 1: you know. I think majors at like when we heard
Speaker 1: this discourse at Quail last year, majors at host courses
Speaker 1: are you know, they just lack a little bit of juice.
Speaker 1: But the thing with Pebble is like the conditioning that
Speaker 1: you present in in June. Is it's just so drastically
Speaker 1: different than February.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so intrigued to see what they do over
Speaker 2: like the next ten years there, like just being a
Speaker 2: kid who went there, you know, back when it was
Speaker 2: Peter Hay. Now I obviously you know it's the Hey Tigers,
Speaker 2: Little nine Hole. I used to go down there in
Speaker 2: junior camps all the time. So I'm really intrigued to
Speaker 2: see when they do an update because they know what
Speaker 2: they do in Spanish Bay right now, Yeah, we're about
Speaker 2: to and then I feel like that's I guess that's
Speaker 2: kind of their trial run for the big show. So
Speaker 2: I'm intrigued. I've always loved Pebble. I've just played so
Speaker 2: bad every year at AT and T and I love
Speaker 2: playing it too, but I'm just like, every year I
Speaker 2: go there, I'm like, I literally grew up here, and
Speaker 2: I don't think I've had a better finish than like
Speaker 2: forty eight.
Speaker 1: It's funny. It's just funny how sometimes that that happens
Speaker 1: to golf, where it's like, yeah, I love the place,
Speaker 1: but the place doesn't necessarily love you back, Like.
Speaker 2: I should in theory love Quail, And I've played so
Speaker 2: bad at Quail every time I've been there, Like there's
Speaker 2: nothing about that place that I should dislike considering my
Speaker 2: golf game, and I have just played awful, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I gotta figure that out. Uh.
Speaker 1: Kind of different type question here. When was the most
Speaker 1: nervous you've ever been on a golf course and why?
Speaker 2: I got to ask this literally two days ago and
Speaker 2: we just kind of talked about it. It was literally
Speaker 2: playing that nine holes with Tiger on Monday because it
Speaker 2: was just so unprepared. You know. It's like, all right,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go kind of meander around augusta ease into
Speaker 2: my week. It's a big week in general, and it
Speaker 2: turns into ten thousand people and playing with your you know,
Speaker 2: longtime hero. So it's like, okay, not ready for that.
Speaker 2: You know, most people would expect me to say, like,
Speaker 2: you know, put the putts to win the US Open
Speaker 2: or whatever. I'm like, no, like those you like, you've
Speaker 2: hit that put in your mind a million times, Like
Speaker 2: sometimes they go in. Sometimes they don't like that three
Speaker 2: would on ten that I had to hit like kind
Speaker 2: of half ass warmed up to be totally honest with
Speaker 2: you then turned into playing with him. I'm like kiddish,
Speaker 2: so I mean, you know, like and I played with
Speaker 2: him in the US Open. I think when I'm like
Speaker 2: going about my business, it's different. But when it was
Speaker 2: just so impromptu, I think that's where I was like, wow,
Speaker 2: I am nervous, like and I know that he would
Speaker 2: die laugh and knowing that, but it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: it's he's he's him, and I'm playing back down. I
Speaker 2: guess though, with my hero, Like, why wouldn't I be nervous?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I always think about Uh. I think it was
Speaker 1: Adrian Morunk was teeing off at like something like six
Speaker 1: am on the old course off ten, so like way
Speaker 1: way the hell out there, and then the Tiger just
Speaker 1: showed up. And this six foot eight Polish guy you know,
Speaker 1: is playing golf with Tiger Woods, who you know you
Speaker 1: probably never in his life imagined he'd be doing that,
Speaker 1: but he just showed up on the tee. That's it's
Speaker 1: just that's a cool story.
Speaker 2: We'll say. The thing is so cool about the course
Speaker 2: real quick is the fact that when you play there
Speaker 2: in the practice rounds early on, when they haven't opened there,
Speaker 2: they open it up to everybody, so that I missed
Speaker 2: the cut at the Scottish Drove Down. I played eighteen
Speaker 2: at like five pm on like Saturday, and they it
Speaker 2: was him and JT teed off at six and I
Speaker 2: mean we had like I was walking back to the
Speaker 2: Old Course hotel. He and JT were on seventeen green
Speaker 2: and they must have had one hundred people with them,
Speaker 2: thirty dogs, kids were throwing frisbees and I was like,
Speaker 2: this is awesome, Like you just can't get this anywhere.
Speaker 2: It's like, literally, you have one of the great the
Speaker 2: greatest player of all time. You have a guy who's
Speaker 2: a two time major champion, and they're just playing golf
Speaker 2: with the Old Course at ten o'clock at night and
Speaker 2: there's a bunch of people just walking down the fairway.
Speaker 1: It's so great, it's so cool. A memory from that
Speaker 1: open that I will never forget is I walked out
Speaker 1: of the media center a couple hours after you know,
Speaker 1: Cam had that crazy win and I'm you know, we're walking.
Speaker 1: I stayed in the dorms right across from the from
Speaker 1: the Swolken Bridge that week and I'm walking back. It's
Speaker 1: down the course and there's like it turned back into
Speaker 1: a park. It's three hours after the tournament ended.
Speaker 2: They're so crazy.
Speaker 1: There's kids, like little like three year olds playing in
Speaker 1: the bunker like it's a sandbox, and like I'm thinking about,
Speaker 1: like where else in the world with this, you know,
Speaker 1: It's just it's such a cool rule with the park
Speaker 1: and the the open openness and how Scotland's got that
Speaker 1: right to rome where people just walk everywhere. You know,
Speaker 1: it's so good.
Speaker 2: I'm just like walking down fairways and like guys are
Speaker 2: looking in my golf bag like seeing what iron I
Speaker 2: hit and whatnot. I'm like, this is awesome. Like you know,
Speaker 2: some guys might freak out by this, but I'm like,
Speaker 2: this is so great.
Speaker 1: It's uh you li a Dallas. As we've talked about,
Speaker 1: what do you think where do you think the best
Speaker 1: place is for a pro to living practice? And why
Speaker 1: is Dallas good?
Speaker 2: I mean I would put Dallas as the best in
Speaker 2: this sense that you get four seasons. You know, Like
Speaker 2: I was born in California. You know it gets cold there,
Speaker 2: but you know, if it gets little rainy, it is
Speaker 2: what it is. But like here, it's like if it's
Speaker 2: forty degrees, like you still go play, you know, And
Speaker 2: so I think that's where like and if it's one
Speaker 2: hundred and ten, you still go play. And so that
Speaker 2: part of it's really good. The no state income tax
Speaker 2: obviously is a big draw for a lot of guys.
Speaker 2: You know, when I think of the other places, I
Speaker 2: just think Dallas because of the four seasons. That's why
Speaker 2: I say that, you know, Florida, it's perfect for most
Speaker 2: of the year. You know, I might get a little
Speaker 2: cold in the winter in the desert, but like I
Speaker 2: just think in terms of like what we have, you know,
Speaker 2: the premier courses that we have, you can plan on
Speaker 2: every single type of grass, you know, because we're right
Speaker 2: on kind of that cusp. And more and more courses
Speaker 2: are going to hydraunics with bermudas or with bent so
Speaker 2: you know, now all of a sudden you've got bent
Speaker 2: grass screens that are running, you know, twelves in the
Speaker 2: summer as opposed to mush. So I think that's why,
Speaker 2: like for us, it's so good, you know, but you
Speaker 2: can't go wrong with I would say with Jupiter in
Speaker 2: terms of practicing, but playing here year round, like you're
Speaker 2: just gonna get better.
Speaker 1: It's gotta be easier travel too, just being someone who
Speaker 1: lives in countries.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I mean middle of the country and yeah,
Speaker 2: American and southwestl fly anywhere you want basically NonStop. So
Speaker 2: it's it's tough to beat. And we've got a good
Speaker 2: crew of guys here. I mean offseason, the games get
Speaker 2: a little bloody, so it's good. It's it's a really
Speaker 2: good kind of mix that we have here. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I would say at least when you have this many
Speaker 2: guys that are here day and day out, that's a
Speaker 2: big part of it too, not only just the golf courses.
Speaker 1: You've had a peer of Scotty Scheffler. You guys are
Speaker 1: the same age. You grew up playing golf with him
Speaker 1: and Jordan Speith uh regularly. When I would say, when
Speaker 1: your injuries happened, you and Scottie were effectively, you know,
Speaker 1: in the same kind of you know, they're really really
Speaker 1: promising players who haven't gotten it necessarily done yet. Looking
Speaker 1: at where Scotty's gone the last three years, did you
Speaker 1: see this coming?
Speaker 2: No? I mean yes, but no, I mean like he
Speaker 2: always wanted to beat you, no matter like how what
Speaker 2: it was, whether it was ping pong, golf, like it
Speaker 2: just didn't matter.
Speaker 1: And so but his.
Speaker 2: Three year run that he's had in terms of always
Speaker 2: trying to get better, I just like it so admirable
Speaker 2: because he's such a humble, chill guy that it's like
Speaker 2: and then he's the stone cold Iceman killer you know
Speaker 2: when it comes Sunday. But he was always that kid
Speaker 2: where he wanted to beat you, but it was still
Speaker 2: just like this acceleration over the last three years has
Speaker 2: been like it's just it's hard not to love it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean you want him, like he's such
Speaker 2: a good dude. Like that's the other part though. He's
Speaker 2: so approachable, he's so chill, like he's still playing with
Speaker 2: the same guys, Like he's still East Chipotle probably five
Speaker 2: days a week, Like he's just he's just a regular
Speaker 2: old dude. But he just wants to beat the crap
Speaker 2: out of you at golf. And that part of it,
Speaker 2: I think is where it's like he's been obsessed at
Speaker 2: being good and trying to be the best he can be.
Speaker 2: He's just he's always living in that spot. And I
Speaker 2: think having a guy like Randy be his mentor for
Speaker 2: so long. I love Randy. I mean the stories that
Speaker 2: that guy. You just hang around him and you just
Speaker 2: gonna laugh, and you're gonna hear golf stories for days,
Speaker 2: you know. But I think, you know, Randy grew up
Speaker 2: with Justin Leonard, or Randy had Justin Leonard, you know
Speaker 2: as his disciple for a really long time. Actually, Randy
Speaker 2: Smith grew up with my mentor at Benry that Efforts
Speaker 2: to earlier, David Price. They were kids together growing up
Speaker 2: in Odessa. So the fact that you know, Scotty and I,
Speaker 2: you know, grew up together with basically two best friends
Speaker 2: and our mentors is kind of makes it even more fun.
Speaker 2: But yeah, he's just like it has just been so
Speaker 2: freaking cool to watch. You know. I saw him the
Speaker 2: other day, you know, working at National and with Phil
Speaker 2: Kenyon and they were, you know, grinding on you know,
Speaker 2: some Sam Putt lab stuff and you know, just going
Speaker 2: to work world number one doing exactly what you you know,
Speaker 2: doing world number one things. And I just say, you
Speaker 2: think it's so cool.
Speaker 1: Is he's just so chill.
Speaker 2: He's such a cool, humble guy. And it's like, dude, like,
Speaker 2: can you just be an asshole for like a minute,
Speaker 2: like you know, like just a minute, like just for me,
Speaker 2: like just for me, I just want that deep down
Speaker 2: just one time.
Speaker 1: Is there what is like the thing, you know, besides
Speaker 1: just how nice he is, is there something about him
Speaker 1: his golf game that might get overlooked by most people.
Speaker 2: Think gets overlooked.
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 2: Hard to say anything was what he's done. I mean,
Speaker 2: he's always been a really good he was always a
Speaker 2: really really good chipper potter wedger, pretty good with the irons.
Speaker 2: But the ball striking and the speed when he got
Speaker 2: out on tour was it like I would say that
Speaker 2: development happened from when he got from corn Ferry to
Speaker 2: on tour and then when he got to on tour
Speaker 2: it just everything fine, just everything just got better. So
Speaker 2: it's kind of hard to say that anything was overlooked.
Speaker 2: His short game, I think, is the epitome of like
Speaker 2: nothing flashy, but it just produces results. Like you know,
Speaker 2: just the if you go and you look at the
Speaker 2: amount of chippins and whatnot, you just kind of go damn,
Speaker 2: Like you know, like wow, well this wasn't like some
Speaker 2: super special, you know, crazy flop. It was just like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you just chipped in like a thirty five footer from
Speaker 2: off the green, like I just did it again, like
Speaker 2: I just hoooped a bucker shot. Like but the I
Speaker 2: think that's where it's like, like even when he's playing
Speaker 2: at home, like we're playing money games with him, it's
Speaker 2: just it's it's still disgusting where it's like, yeah, he's
Speaker 2: gonna make seven eight birdies, like you're just gonna have
Speaker 2: to beat them.
Speaker 1: You know, it had to be fun having chipping contest
Speaker 1: as a kid against Scottie and Jordan.
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't at all, not even a little bit.
Speaker 2: But like, yeah, I mean the probably like in terms
Speaker 2: of like growing up with those guys, just in terms
Speaker 2: of like when you knew they were special. Jordan, when
Speaker 2: he was fourteen, shot the course record at bent Tree.
Speaker 2: Weren't all enough to take carts, took the carts anyways.
Speaker 2: He hit his first t ball in the wrong fairway,
Speaker 2: say blew it out right, hits a five one on
Speaker 2: the front right bunker about like eighty feet away, hits
Speaker 2: that to the fringe, makes the twenty five footer and
Speaker 2: then he birdies six out of his next seven and
Speaker 2: she's twenty nine on the front. And then the part
Speaker 2: that me and another buddy we always die laughing at
Speaker 2: was on fourteen, I flew a ball in the hole
Speaker 2: and it like popped out one to a foot, blew
Speaker 2: up the lip, and Jordan lipped one out off of
Speaker 2: the blown up side the lip, and he's like kidding me,
Speaker 2: And I was just like, yeah, it's all my fault that,
Speaker 2: you know, you've made one bogie today. But like those
Speaker 2: little memories like that, like you stay with you forever.
Speaker 2: Like I brought up to Jordan the other day, He's like,
Speaker 2: I don't remember that. I'm like, yeah, because you shot
Speaker 2: have so many sixty threes in your life, you forgot
Speaker 2: I get it. I get it. But but like, you know,
Speaker 2: the same thing with Scotty, Like Scotty would go on
Speaker 2: like always wore he always wore pants to junior events.
Speaker 2: It didn't matter if it was one hundred and ten,
Speaker 2: Like dude was wearing pants, carry his own bag, you know.
Speaker 2: But through I mean there were a few times, like
Speaker 2: I remember when I was like eleven, twelve thirteen, where
Speaker 2: he was just thrown up numbers that were like like
Speaker 2: shooting sixty sixes was like an eleven year old from
Speaker 2: like sixty three hundred yards. It was just like what
Speaker 2: you know, So those are the guys that I grew
Speaker 2: up playing against. So yeah, when you ask if Chip
Speaker 2: and contests were fun of them, No they weren't, but
Speaker 2: I definitely they definitely made me better, which is a
Speaker 2: good thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, you could put it like them, uh, Patrick Reid,
Speaker 1: Like there's like the among the greatest short games and
Speaker 1: you know the last twenty years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like Jordan, Jordan makes the most ridiculous shots, Like
Speaker 2: gambling with him is impossible, Like playing a wolf Hammer
Speaker 2: game with him is just undeniably awful. But like with Scotty,
Speaker 2: it's just like he's gonna yeah, it's just it's gonna
Speaker 2: be like if he makes a mistakes the twelve footter
Speaker 2: for Pars going in, and then he's gonna bear you
Speaker 2: the next three. But with Jordan, it's like nine iron
Speaker 2: on one hundred and fifty yard part three left of
Speaker 2: the car path, banks it into the slope, pops up
Speaker 2: on the green and goes in the hole and we
Speaker 2: had already hammered, and I'm like, great, we'll drop that
Speaker 2: hammer back. Thanks, you know, lovely, you know. So that's
Speaker 2: like it's fun though, it makes it makes hammer games
Speaker 2: all of a sudden when people ask me why I
Speaker 2: might be dropping. I'm like, I play with Jordan a
Speaker 2: lot like that is why I'm probably dropping. I shouldn't.
Speaker 2: I know that we're gambling, but that's why.
Speaker 1: Big Golf News yesterday, Brooks kopka Is stated, what are
Speaker 1: your thoughts on Brooks rejoining the tour? And uh, did
Speaker 1: you think that the crib justified?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: Was it was it the penalty or that he had
Speaker 1: to you know, pay the right you know? Was it
Speaker 1: the right decision?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, first off, I love that he's back.
Speaker 2: Anybody who loves golf like the fact that he's going
Speaker 2: to be playing with us again. I love that. I
Speaker 2: think that's that's great for the game. There's more eyeballs
Speaker 2: that are going to be on Brooks. That's just it's
Speaker 2: good for all of us. The punishment side, yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't like my I do think it's a I do
Speaker 2: think it's a very fitting punishment, if you will. I
Speaker 2: don't like. I think any PGA Tour player at this
Speaker 2: point in time can undeniably say that they just want
Speaker 2: the best product going forward. What that is we don't know.
Speaker 2: But if you have the best players, that's that's step one.
Speaker 2: And I think when people were kind of looking at
Speaker 2: the merger talks for the longest of time or acquisition
Speaker 2: talks or whatever you want to call them, over the
Speaker 2: last eighteen months, or just lack of talking. It's like,
Speaker 2: what are we what is the PGA tour actually trying
Speaker 2: to buy? You're not trying to buy their tour. You're
Speaker 2: not trying to buy their media agreements. You're trying to
Speaker 2: get all of the players or however many players you
Speaker 2: want to say, back under one roof. So I think
Speaker 2: like when you look at it in terms of now
Speaker 2: where those of us that stayed, you know, and you
Speaker 2: have the player equity program, which is the massive piece
Speaker 2: of it. I think that's where like the player equity
Speaker 2: program is essentially acting as like another pension for the players,
Speaker 2: but we get to act as equity owners in the tour,
Speaker 2: so you know, we're voting members. We have full say.
Speaker 2: This is something that you know, Tiger, a lot of
Speaker 2: the players fought for. How we got to this point,
Speaker 2: it would be a million different steps that honestly I
Speaker 2: couldn't even tell you half of them. But the brilliance
Speaker 2: sent us the players actually owning their own tour, and
Speaker 2: that's the first sport that that's kind of ever happened.
Speaker 2: I think is now kind of takes all of a
Speaker 2: sudden if you were to kind of look at a
Speaker 2: lot of us that stayed and kind of made a
Speaker 2: lot of those like no, they're gone, that's it, And
Speaker 2: now all of a sudden where it's now a player run,
Speaker 2: player owned institution. I think any player shouldn't have an
Speaker 2: issue with it now in terms of where the tour
Speaker 2: is gonna go in twenty seven, I haven't even met
Speaker 2: Brian row Up. I mean they've asked me to, you know,
Speaker 2: catch up with them and talk, and I'm like, I'll
Speaker 2: meet you in person down the road. I've been out
Speaker 2: for five months. I don't even know who's in office
Speaker 2: right now, Like I don't know who's there. You know,
Speaker 2: we'll catch up, like when that time's right. But but yeah,
Speaker 2: I just I think having all of us back under
Speaker 2: one roof is just a win. And the fact that
Speaker 2: the tour has made it a player equity run or
Speaker 2: player equity this player equity program has made it to
Speaker 2: a point where it's like, yeah, this is when these
Speaker 2: guys come back. It benefits you, So why wouldn't you
Speaker 2: want them back?
Speaker 1: That's I mean That's the biggest thing, right, is that
Speaker 1: if you're an equity owner of the tour, it is
Speaker 1: good for the tour to have Brooks kept get back,
Speaker 1: you know, it's good for the tour. If John Rahm
Speaker 1: decided to try and come back. I don't know how
Speaker 1: some of these guys would come back with their contracts
Speaker 1: that is, but like you want, you know, certainly, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think this is about Scott Vincent, no offense
Speaker 1: to Scott Vincent, but it's about you know, the select
Speaker 1: couple guys that actually, you know, move the you know,
Speaker 1: you know that that a fan would recognize and a
Speaker 1: fan people.
Speaker 2: Are going to come watch him or come watch Brooks
Speaker 2: at Farmers Now that like those people would maybe or
Speaker 2: maybe not be there or the on a focus that
Speaker 2: PJ Tour Live's going to have on him being back.
Speaker 2: Like that's that stuff that we need. And I think
Speaker 2: that's where it's like we for the longest time, you
Speaker 2: basically were trying to run a golf tour as a
Speaker 2: public affairs group, needing legal repor needing legal advice, while
Speaker 2: also being an m and a expert. And it's like
Speaker 2: if anybody's hiring, we're available. So I think that's where
Speaker 2: like with Brian, you know, like I've loved everything he's
Speaker 2: done from thirty thousand feet, you know, I'm I think
Speaker 2: it's been awesome, but it's like there's just so many
Speaker 2: changes that are going to be in the works. And
Speaker 2: my first few years out on tour, like I was
Speaker 2: on the player Advisory Council going through those meetings and
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden realizing that the last two
Speaker 2: hours was kind of not a waste of time, but
Speaker 2: like it just got everything we just talked about just
Speaker 2: got nixed within five minutes. It was just kind of like,
Speaker 2: all right, well maybe you just give you the summary
Speaker 2: on the back half, and like I'll just keep playing golf,
Speaker 2: and like I'm not into this institutional stuff, but you
Speaker 2: guys just have fun with that. But like I just
Speaker 2: I think at the now that we're at that point
Speaker 2: where we're able to have these conversations, I don't know
Speaker 2: how they feel about it. I don't know how if
Speaker 2: they feel the punishment's right or wrong or whatever. That's
Speaker 2: kind of not up for me to decide, and I'm
Speaker 2: kind of glad it's not for me to decide. I
Speaker 2: just know that I want them playing under our umbrella.
Speaker 2: The punishments, the punishment. You know, if other guys have
Speaker 2: issues with it, I'm happy to hear it, but I
Speaker 2: I don't have an issue with it.
Speaker 1: Jeff Ogilvy said up this podcast once that if about
Speaker 1: the Player Advisory Council, if you put if you lock
Speaker 1: twelve people in the room long enough, they could talk
Speaker 1: themselves into anything.
Speaker 2: So yeah, oh, I have it on. Multiple veterans have
Speaker 2: walked into those meetings and I'm not saying their names
Speaker 2: because I love them dearly, but they've walked in those
Speaker 2: meetings and said, after ninety minutes, you have to start
Speaker 2: paying me. And they've gotten way way more productive. Like
Speaker 2: they've got different subcommittees now, like it is run. It's
Speaker 2: run as an institution as opposed to a golf tour
Speaker 2: that owns all these assets and trying to figure it out.
Speaker 2: So it's way way better than when I was there.
Speaker 2: But so that's why, like when I come back, I'm
Speaker 2: I'm honestly just kind of looking at it as like,
Speaker 2: all right, what are you guys doing? You know, I'm
Speaker 2: happy to give my input where it is, but just
Speaker 2: so many things they're going to keep changing and I'm
Speaker 2: just I'm gonna go try to play my best golf
Speaker 2: and hopefully I get a spot next week.
Speaker 1: You basically have never played on a Ryder Cup or
Speaker 1: a President's Cup team, which is, you know, unfortunate. I'm
Speaker 1: curious as a as a spectator of the American Ryder
Speaker 1: Cup team, do you think that there's like something that
Speaker 1: Europeans do better or is this just kind of Hey,
Speaker 1: it's it's a bunch of you know, kind of they
Speaker 1: just outperformed us on a biannual basis.
Speaker 2: It's I don't I mean, at least the setup for
Speaker 2: this one was obviously the biggest issue that we can
Speaker 2: undeniably say that that the at least from minuder standing
Speaker 2: on the Ryder Cup side, we started messing around with
Speaker 2: the setup pretty heavily at in Minnesota, I think, yeah,
Speaker 2: hazelteen in like sixteen, is that right? We started messing
Speaker 2: with the setup a lot and to benefit us. And
Speaker 2: then you go to Rome and it's like, Okay, all
Speaker 2: of our guys hit in an absolute mile and wedging
Speaker 2: and shipping is not really like the forte of the team.
Speaker 2: Obviously the best twelve Americans in the world. That's saying
Speaker 2: they're not the best is subjective, but they basically moved
Speaker 2: every single par four under four hundred yards or like
Speaker 2: under three eighty and then they just took all of
Speaker 2: the four hundred and sixty yard holes and pushed it
Speaker 2: all the way back to like five hundred, so there's
Speaker 2: no par fors between four hundred and five hundred. Like
Speaker 2: basically there was like one or two a day max
Speaker 2: on the par fours. And it's like that ingenious setup,
Speaker 2: only like that's just like a point and a half
Speaker 2: or whatever you want to say. It is right there
Speaker 2: when it comes to like them just beating us with
Speaker 2: the camaraderie. I don't know. I've only been on a
Speaker 2: Walker Cup team. I've been to a President's Cup for
Speaker 2: the first day in twenty two. They invited me because
Speaker 2: they would have been on the team, but I got hurt.
Speaker 2: So I got to see like kind of the inner workings.
Speaker 2: I guess of how it works in general. You know
Speaker 2: where you have like here's some stats, guys, Physiogan's over
Speaker 2: here is our team meeting room, Like just to see
Speaker 2: all the you know, man, the stuff that they have
Speaker 2: to do, just see how it works. The Ryder Cup.
Speaker 2: I don't know I I mean the when you look
Speaker 2: at like the Walker Cup in general, it's been pretty
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty over the last like I think thirty
Speaker 2: ish sessions and then you extrapolate that and then all
Speaker 2: of a sudden we get absolutely destroyed in the Ryder Cups.
Speaker 2: So for me, I'm I'm at a little bit of
Speaker 2: a loss. I thought some of the pairings were maybe
Speaker 2: like not our best pairings in general. I know, none
Speaker 2: of this is stuff that you know, This isn't earth
Speaker 2: breaking stuff. You know that I'm saying, but it's I
Speaker 2: just felt like there was a little bit too much,
Speaker 2: too much thought going into there, Like you know, if
Speaker 2: one guy says, you know, if there's one guy that says,
Speaker 2: you know, hey, I like, uh, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: mid irons here. I feel like my mid iron game
Speaker 2: is strong. It's kind of like do you just tell
Speaker 2: them no, Like you just tell one of the best players,
Speaker 2: but one of the best players in the world like yeah,
Speaker 2: but like stats are saying like not even close, this
Speaker 2: is not you. And so I think a little bit
Speaker 2: of that. And I don't mean to like speak for
Speaker 2: the captains and the vice captains of like why they
Speaker 2: picked who they picked, But it's a little bit of
Speaker 2: like why did you pick who you picked? Like, why
Speaker 2: did you put these parents together? You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know. I just I And this
Speaker 2: is me not being somebody who's ever played on a
Speaker 2: Ryder Cup, but just kind of looking at it and
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know, I even I don't know,
Speaker 2: but I know that I was it. Next one's no,
Speaker 2: where's the next one that's in the stakes?
Speaker 1: And then I think it's Hazel Team again?
Speaker 2: Is it back at Hazel Team? Yeah? I can remember
Speaker 2: Madonna is the President's.
Speaker 1: Cup, right, Yeah, President that you should go see that.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's another big boy golf course.
Speaker 1: Yeah, new But Dinah's really cool. I'm actually really excited
Speaker 1: about the Presidents. Hopefully you'll be playing on this team,
Speaker 1: you know, that would be that'd be great. But uh yeah,
Speaker 1: the whole the whole Ryder Cup things that I think
Speaker 1: there is like a certain aspect of like they just
Speaker 1: played better for a while, and there were a couple
Speaker 1: of decisions head scratchers that might have, you know, gotten
Speaker 1: the US team out of the gates a little slower
Speaker 1: than they could have. But like those guys played great
Speaker 1: and that like, that's the thing. I think the difference
Speaker 1: between match play and stroke play is like the other
Speaker 1: part of this where it's a different format and like
Speaker 1: you can you know, go out and play incredible and
Speaker 1: still lose, you know, And I think that's like the
Speaker 1: tricky thing with with with this And yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: know I would agree with the setup. The setup was
Speaker 1: like a head scratcher.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: The Europeans were, I think floored when they saw the setup.
Speaker 1: Let's get you out of here on one last kind
Speaker 1: of fun question. In your opinion, who's the best player
Speaker 1: in the world that nobody talks about? Does get the
Speaker 1: most well, we can say the most underrated golfer in
Speaker 1: the world. Underrated just doesn't get talked about as much
Speaker 1: as they should given the talent level. And when you
Speaker 1: watch them play, you're like, holy shit, I can't believe.
Speaker 2: So I will say this and I hate ever saying
Speaker 2: this about putting any like I don't even want to
Speaker 2: put expectations on the kids. He's such a good kid
Speaker 2: and he won't even care that is this. But Miles Russell,
Speaker 2: who's the sixteen seventeen year old he's going to Florida
Speaker 2: State I'm just telling you, like I grew up with Jordan,
Speaker 2: I grew up with Scottie rom was the guy when
Speaker 2: I was in college, Like, this kid's sixteen seventeen, and
Speaker 2: he's so mature, Like he's way way more mature than
Speaker 2: I am. Like even when it comes down to the
Speaker 2: golf course where I'm just like, you're doing stuff that
Speaker 2: I've like I've paid people to help me with, Like
Speaker 2: and you're sixteen seventeen, you do it naturally. And the
Speaker 2: kid's golf kids golf game. He's one of the most
Speaker 2: naturally gifted kids I think I've ever seen. I know
Speaker 2: that that's ridiculous because I know you want a tour answer.
Speaker 2: I'm just telling you this kid is he's another kid
Speaker 2: who's like he's such a good kid, and he's so good,
Speaker 2: like just it was it was just one of those
Speaker 2: rounds where like when I watched him play, I was
Speaker 2: like looking because we sure we actually share our guy
Speaker 2: does his in a ile stuff's also my agent and
Speaker 2: so I've got to spend a whole time with them.
Speaker 2: But every time I've been around this kid, I'm just like, wow,
Speaker 2: like you are like you you are, you are sixteen
Speaker 2: seventeen and you're doing stuff that tour pros can't even do. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a guy that I'm I'm very excited for. I'm
Speaker 2: always in that kid's corner, like I'm I'm that kid's
Speaker 2: biggest cheerleader, like I want I want him to be
Speaker 2: the next big thing because he's he's such a good
Speaker 2: kid and he's so good. But there's so many kids
Speaker 2: coming up in college now. They all got one eighty
Speaker 2: five ball speed and they all you know, they're all
Speaker 2: hit it a mile and they're all pluck good. And
Speaker 2: I'm over there doing my speed drills and you know,
Speaker 2: hit my wedges and I'm not going to be your
Speaker 2: three forty guy off the tea anymore. I might be
Speaker 2: three twenty, but you know, I'll be getting airmailed about
Speaker 2: all the young kids coming out. That's just how it
Speaker 2: always is. But yeah, Miles, I'm telling you, Miles, this kid's,
Speaker 2: this kid's, this kid's gonna be special.
Speaker 1: There is special the uh it'll you know. And I
Speaker 1: think like in a way, navigating junior golf and college
Speaker 1: golf for kids in the nil era is like, you know,
Speaker 1: people will say, oh, it's not challenging because they're getting paid.
Speaker 1: I think that makes being a junior golfer and a
Speaker 1: college golfer more difficult because of expectations and just like
Speaker 1: it's not just I'm going out and having fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah no, And I think that's where I'm I shouldn't
Speaker 2: even say proud of them because that's just coming off
Speaker 2: as condescending. But it's like he just doesn't care about that,
Speaker 2: about all that other stuff. He just wants to be
Speaker 2: really really good at golf. And I think when you
Speaker 2: see somebody like coming in the nil era and they're
Speaker 2: just like, yeah, this like deal or whatever, I just don't,
Speaker 2: I don't care. Like that reminds me of Scotty. Scotty's
Speaker 2: like he just he's like, yeah, I like this hat.
Speaker 2: You know, this hat has holes in it, it's got
Speaker 2: sweat stains, But I like this hat. That's the only
Speaker 2: reason why I wear it. And I love guys like
Speaker 2: that because it's you know, so I think, I know
Speaker 2: it's it's crazy to I wouldn't even say it's crazy
Speaker 2: to say, but yeah, I just this kid, he's got
Speaker 2: no holes in his game. It's just a matter of time.
Speaker 2: Like I'm I'm one of those guys on him where
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I'm I'm definitely gonna be proven right,
Speaker 2: and I want all you guys to just remember that.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, we'll keep those receipts for a couple
Speaker 1: of years from now. Now we have it, so you'll
Speaker 1: be able to play the clip. You'll say, hey, I
Speaker 1: told you in twenty twenty six. Will can't wait to
Speaker 1: watch you play Palm Springs and see you back out there.
Speaker 1: I think it's one of the one of the big
Speaker 1: stories of twenty twenty six and look forward to seeing
Speaker 1: you have a chance late on Sunday at some more majors.
Speaker 2: Thanks Man, really appreciate it, all right.
Speaker 1: Big thanks to Will for joining and giving us so
Speaker 1: much of his time. Look forward to seeing him back
Speaker 1: on the PGA tour at Lakina and PGA West. Big
Speaker 1: thanks also to PJ. Clark for editing and producing this show.
Speaker 1: And we'll see you next week.