Speaker 1: Episode four fifty two, What if You're not lazy? What
Speaker 1: if You're a Perfectionist? With Monica Packer.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 2: save money, embrace simplicity, and live a life here your
Speaker 2: hosts Jen and Jill.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen,
Speaker 1: my name is Jill. And today on the show, we
Speaker 1: are sharing a wonderful conversation we had with our friend
Speaker 1: Monica from about progress on perfectionism.
Speaker 3: She's so relatable, she's so kind. You're welcome. You're gonna
Speaker 3: walk away feeling so good about yourself, probably better than
Speaker 3: you feel if you're listening to most of our podcast
Speaker 3: at least.
Speaker 1: Like with Freedom, you're gonna walk away feeling some more
Speaker 1: freedom and flexibility in what you do financially, I mean
Speaker 1: actually like just in life in general. We do always
Speaker 1: try to focus on the financial aspect, but really there
Speaker 1: is a lot of freedom in this conversation that I walked.
Speaker 3: Away with and potentially some aha moments about yourself ethan So,
Speaker 3: but first, this episode is brought to you by Checklist, Convenient,
Speaker 3: helpful little guides to getting tasks completed When our brains
Speaker 3: just can't brain anymore. Checklists are great for all us
Speaker 3: organizing type A leaning extremely motivated gals who like the
Speaker 3: satisfaction of checking off items on that list. And speaking
Speaker 3: of checking off a to do item, have you pre
Speaker 3: ordered our book By What you Love Without Going Broke?
Speaker 3: If not, write it on your to do list, quick
Speaker 3: do it at buywoulovebook dot com and then check it
Speaker 3: off instant feeling of accomplishment. You won't regret it. Get
Speaker 3: our book By What you Love Without Going Broke at
Speaker 3: buy what you Love book dot com. We're so excited
Speaker 3: about it. And you know what, Monica read the book
Speaker 3: because we do have advanced reader copies currently that we're
Speaker 3: giving out to different people to see what they think
Speaker 3: about it. And she really liked it. And because she
Speaker 3: liked it, she said that she would come and be
Speaker 3: a guest on our show. And so now you have it.
Speaker 1: And we were. I was a guest on her show
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago, so, and I was talking about
Speaker 1: some of the things in the book as they relate
Speaker 1: to progress not perfection.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she said that there is a lot of congruence
Speaker 3: with what she talks about. And you'll hear it if
Speaker 3: you've been listening to Frugal Friends for a while and
Speaker 3: then you listen to this interview, you're going to think
Speaker 3: that we fed her terminology ahead of time. We didn't.
Speaker 3: We're just that aligned, which is fun, but alignment but
Speaker 3: not necessarily on the same exact topic. So she's bringing
Speaker 3: a fun, new perspective, helpful perspective.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not a regurgitation. It's definitely and I said
Speaker 1: this at the end of the interview, puts some words
Speaker 1: to some concepts that we may have been taking for
Speaker 1: granted or may not have been able to explain well.
Speaker 1: So I love that. So if this is something that
Speaker 1: you're into, a few good ones to queue up for
Speaker 1: after this. Episode three forty two, The Importance of Honoring
Speaker 1: your season. We talk a little bit about seasons in
Speaker 1: this one, and then episode two seventy two Managing Money
Speaker 1: the Lazy Genius Way with Kendra Adachi. We talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about prioritizing and how do you choose your
Speaker 1: next steps? And I think that one's a good one
Speaker 1: to expound on that concept. But Monica Packer is a
Speaker 1: normal mom and recovering perfectionist who helps women do the
Speaker 1: same thing as a podcaster and a coach. She guides
Speaker 1: them to find sustainable growth and adopt progress over perfection.
Speaker 1: She's a mom of five, I've former teacher, and she
Speaker 1: bakes sour dough man.
Speaker 3: I wish I would have connected with her about that one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's cool, So let's get into it.
Speaker 3: Let's do what.
Speaker 1: Monica. Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. We're so excited
Speaker 1: to have you here. I have been so looking forward
Speaker 1: to this.
Speaker 3: This is a fun topic for me because I think
Speaker 3: this is an area we often don't look at of
Speaker 3: we often can focus on the I don't want to
Speaker 3: look at these things. I feel too lazy with whatever.
Speaker 3: But we've also got a lot of people in the
Speaker 3: population who are like, no, I'm a rule follower and
Speaker 3: I'm a checklister and I aim at perfection and that
Speaker 3: can also be a barrier to finances. So I'm so
Speaker 3: excited to get your interest on this.
Speaker 1: Yes, all right, So, as as an expert on this perfectionism,
Speaker 1: what are maybe some of the the signs that I'm
Speaker 1: a perfectionist and not lazy? Like, how do you define it?
Speaker 1: What do you look for?
Speaker 4: First of all, I think we have to own the
Speaker 4: fact that When most people think of a perfectionist, they
Speaker 4: think of almost a humble brag, right, where someone's like,
Speaker 4: you know, I'm just such a perfectionist and I have
Speaker 4: to do, you know, And then there's like the kind
Speaker 4: of chuckle, the knowing chuckle. But it's something that is
Speaker 4: so rewarded in our society and something that people honestly
Speaker 4: aspire to that and I was one of them for
Speaker 4: many years that a lot of people, when they think
Speaker 4: of a perfectionist, they would not picture themselves because they
Speaker 4: wouldn't picture someone who's always on that a wheel of
Speaker 4: hustling or burnout or high achieving or looking perfect or
Speaker 4: almost this unachievable person. And really, perfectionism is not just
Speaker 4: about the stereotypical kind we're thinking of. Perfectionism goes so
Speaker 4: much deeper. And the truth about all this is that
Speaker 4: perfectionism is really a misplacement of identity. It's placing the
Speaker 4: sense of who we are on our outcomes, and in
Speaker 4: some perfectionists cases, it's their lack of outcomes. And perfectionism
Speaker 4: is a spectrum. We have the stereotypical kind that we
Speaker 4: just talked about, but we also have the non stereotypical kind.
Speaker 4: And these are people who are on the sidelines of
Speaker 4: their own lives, people who may describe themselves as lazy,
Speaker 4: but they haven't started because of the same root of
Speaker 4: them placing their identity on their lack of outcomes or
Speaker 4: the fear of not having the outcome that they like.
Speaker 4: So while the stereotypical perfectionists are going to drive, drive, drive,
Speaker 4: do do do until they get there, and spoiler alert,
Speaker 4: they never arrive. They never get there. The non stereotypical
Speaker 4: perfectionist either quit before they start or quit soon after
Speaker 4: they start, but all goes back to them blaming themselves
Speaker 4: about their supposed laziness. So this really can illuminate a
Speaker 4: lot of women's entire lives when they actually see, Oh
Speaker 4: you mean I'm not lazy, I'm actually a perfectionist. And
Speaker 4: the answer is yes. And it goes back to that
Speaker 4: very first point we made is we have to shift
Speaker 4: the way we're looking at perfectionism period.
Speaker 3: Wow. I never thought about it as being attached to identity,
Speaker 3: but the way that you're describing it, it makes so
Speaker 3: much sense when it comes to our achievements and what
Speaker 3: we can kind of hang our hat on as what
Speaker 3: we've done. I can see the other side of the
Speaker 3: spectrum of how you're describing perfectionism being the reason that
Speaker 3: so many people don't do something like if I can't
Speaker 3: do it perfectly, then I'm not going to do it
Speaker 3: at all. I recently heard someone say if I can't
Speaker 3: do it right, then we're not going to do it,
Speaker 3: and I think that they fell like that that was
Speaker 3: a good statement, and I'm like, it feels eerily similar
Speaker 3: to if I can't do it perfect then I'm not
Speaker 3: going to do it, and that's not a great place
Speaker 3: to start. Like, the fear of failure really is what's
Speaker 3: keeping so many people from various goals. I imagine financial
Speaker 3: as well. So I'm curious from your perspective how you
Speaker 3: think maybe identifying oneself as oh, it might be perfectionism
Speaker 3: that I'm dealing with, how that might impact finances negatively
Speaker 3: or non beneficially.
Speaker 4: So when I talk about perfectionism, one thing I need
Speaker 4: to always highlight is that there is a price being
Speaker 4: paid for perfectionists. And whether it's the well, let's talk
Speaker 4: about the stereotypical perfectionist. There's the things you see, you see,
Speaker 4: the outcomes, you see, the accohades you see. This perfect
Speaker 4: almost unreachable person. But what you don't know is what
Speaker 4: prices they are paying that are often silent or behind
Speaker 4: what you can see. And for me that was massive
Speaker 4: mental health struggles, including depression and eating disorders, suicidal ideation,
Speaker 4: but also bigger thing for me was a detachment from
Speaker 4: other people, like I was just too busy trying to
Speaker 4: be on a pedestal that was really hard to connect
Speaker 4: with people. For the non stereotypical kind that what price
Speaker 4: are you paying to It can be the price of
Speaker 4: resentment because you always wish you could have done something,
Speaker 4: or you're jealous of other people and what they're doing,
Speaker 4: or just that whole feeling of feeling stuck and like
Speaker 4: you're always waiting, or that you're never the one who
Speaker 4: gets what they want or works towards what they want.
Speaker 4: So there are prices being paid, and that often is literal.
Speaker 4: And so when we're talking about finances, I think it
Speaker 4: goes back to one of the ways that we have
Speaker 4: to shift our relationship, like as a society, our relationship
Speaker 4: with perfectionism is we have to stop believing in not
Speaker 4: all or nothing lie that you just brought up.
Speaker 1: I either do it right or I don't do.
Speaker 4: It all at all, that's all or nothing, And honestly,
Speaker 4: you're either paying the price of all or you are
Speaker 4: paying the price of nothing. And most of the time
Speaker 4: people end up somehow and then nothing, because burnout is
Speaker 4: real if you're the stereotypical kind of the perfectionist. So
Speaker 4: if we shift the way we see perfectionism, we have
Speaker 4: to shift the way we look at progress, which is
Speaker 4: that true, sustainable, lasting, and even massive growth happens over time.
Speaker 4: It's something I call the process of small winds build
Speaker 4: over time. And I mean, what's the finance phrase for that, right,
Speaker 4: compound effect. So if you are stuck in that place
Speaker 4: of thinking it's all or nothing, either I'm investing in
Speaker 4: all the things, or I'm doing this like super rigid budget.
Speaker 4: I line eyed on every single thing. There is no
Speaker 4: room for flexibility, there's no room for failure that can
Speaker 4: get you into that I'm paying a price place, and
Speaker 4: what is that price that you're paying? And I think
Speaker 4: anyone listening can answer that for themselves. Well, I pay
Speaker 4: the price because I haven't invested in dying because I've
Speaker 4: been too scared about doing it right, or I've been
Speaker 4: waiting until I have a good amount of money or
Speaker 4: the right job or whatever.
Speaker 3: It may be.
Speaker 4: Or I wait to budget or to even think about
Speaker 4: where I want my expenses to go because I feel
Speaker 4: like a failure when I look at that stuff. When
Speaker 4: I see where my money's going, I look at like
Speaker 4: a I feel like a failure. Same thing with the perfectionists,
Speaker 4: the stereotypical kind. So think about that. What price are
Speaker 4: you paying because of this whole thing. You're getting caught
Speaker 4: up and this all or nothing pendulum swing when it
Speaker 4: really just fails everybody.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel that so deeply because that was me
Speaker 1: for most of my life and I took it on
Speaker 1: as an identity. Right, I'm an all or nothing person.
Speaker 1: I either I go to the extreme or I don't
Speaker 1: do it, and that it kept me back from budgeting.
Speaker 1: And it's one of the reasons I have such a
Speaker 1: negative idea of budgeting, because I made this perfect budget.
Speaker 1: If I can't do it, it's like then it's something
Speaker 1: wrong with me, and I'm not going to do it.
Speaker 1: If I need to invest a thousand dollars of the
Speaker 1: month every month to become a millionaire and I can't
Speaker 1: afford to do that, what's the point in doing it?
Speaker 1: At all. I'm not going to save enough, you know,
Speaker 1: to retire or whatever. And these are all thoughts that
Speaker 1: I have had. And it's even after doing this podcast
Speaker 1: for so many years. Yeah, still struggle with these things
Speaker 1: in finances and out And I was literally just thinking
Speaker 1: this morning about how for the past like six weeks
Speaker 1: I've been trying to eat better and I've seen very
Speaker 1: very little difference right in like anything body wise, energy wise, anything,
Speaker 1: but realizing and being told like, the difference doesn't come
Speaker 1: in six weeks. The difference isn't an up and to
Speaker 1: the right line. Change doesn't happen like that. In compound interest,
Speaker 1: up until one hundred thousand dollars, your line is pretty straight.
Speaker 1: There's really no growth in your investments. And then you
Speaker 1: hit that one hundred k and you zoom out to
Speaker 1: a million and the line goes like straight up.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: So like I'm like learning holistically right now how much
Speaker 1: the id like the ideology of perfectionism has held me back.
Speaker 4: And especially because we want the outcomes, right do we
Speaker 4: do want those things? And some people ask me like, well,
Speaker 4: then how do we still work on things if we
Speaker 4: don't want to be perfectionists? And the truth is not
Speaker 4: trying is still perfectionism, so it's hard to own it, right,
Speaker 4: it's a shift.
Speaker 3: I've appreciated the connection that you've made not just to
Speaker 3: monetary costs, but other peripheral costs, like what is it
Speaker 3: costing us in what we're then not learning? The ways
Speaker 3: in which we're not growing, the ways in which we're
Speaker 3: not connecting with others or asking questions. There's so much
Speaker 3: more than just finances. I mean, certainly if we're not
Speaker 3: if we don't want to do it because we're scared
Speaker 3: of failure, not doing it right or perfect, then we're not. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we're sacrificing the money stuff too, and what we could
Speaker 3: have been investing in the ways that that could have grown.
Speaker 3: But so many other pieces happening here too, if we
Speaker 3: could just be willing to experience maybe failure along the
Speaker 3: way and accept that. So that's a really helpful I
Speaker 3: think reframe to really tally up what's the loss here
Speaker 3: because it's not just monetary and what could be gained
Speaker 3: from maybe a different aim.
Speaker 1: So what sort of mindset can we adopt instead? If
Speaker 1: we're starting to recognize that this all or nothing, extreme
Speaker 1: oriented mindset is holding us back, where do we go
Speaker 1: And I think we've talked a lot in spending we
Speaker 1: kind of call it the radical middle. But like, yeah,
Speaker 1: is what do you say, Like what kind of sort
Speaker 1: of mindset can we adopt? What's a better aim?
Speaker 4: With mindset in particular, I would talk about two things. First,
Speaker 4: with the premise that you actually believe in this whole
Speaker 4: process we've been talking about. You believe in the compound effect.
Speaker 4: No one's going to invest their money and leave it
Speaker 4: in the stock market if they don't believe in this process.
Speaker 4: The overtime, things will build and it will look like
Speaker 4: it's not working for a really long time. But because
Speaker 4: you believe in it, you're willing to keep putting in
Speaker 4: those small amounts of money. Right. So similarly, you have
Speaker 4: to believe in this whole idea of small ones building
Speaker 4: over time, whether it's your finances or you working on
Speaker 4: personal habits that you need to change, or even your
Speaker 4: relationships or parenting kids that are kind of hard. So
Speaker 4: with this, if you believe in the process, the next
Speaker 4: kind of mindset shift is instead of all or nothing,
Speaker 4: you want to have the mindset of do something. And
Speaker 4: when I'm saying that, I'm not saying it in the
Speaker 4: toxic positivity tone that we hear out there so often,
Speaker 4: like today's your day, get up, do it all. You're
Speaker 4: the one responsible for your life and how you're feeling
Speaker 4: and how you're doing. It's like, no, it's it's not that,
Speaker 4: it's not do something like do it all. It's no,
Speaker 4: like do something and make that be your standard of
Speaker 4: where you start and also how you are building too.
Speaker 4: That starting today with one small thing, whether it's if
Speaker 4: we're looking at finance stuff, like you're going to actually
Speaker 4: look at your bank accounts, like you're actually going to
Speaker 4: look today, that's something that's doing something. Whether you're going
Speaker 4: to call about a bill that needs to be negotiated
Speaker 4: a bit, that is something. You're going to set up
Speaker 4: the meeting with the financial planner, which my husband and
Speaker 4: I finally did this year after years of knowing we
Speaker 4: needed to because like we actually have to figure out
Speaker 4: if we're on track to anything, you know, not because
Speaker 4: because we didn't do it because of that all or
Speaker 4: nothing thing. I'm like, we're not wealthy, Like does a
Speaker 4: financial planner even want to talk to us? Or we're
Speaker 4: not wealthy? Are we going to get scammed?
Speaker 1: Yeah? You know your legitimate fears and concerns.
Speaker 4: For sure, right, but just doing something of even sending
Speaker 4: an email about that, making an inquiry call or when
Speaker 4: later another do set thing of having the meeting, and
Speaker 4: then more do set things of like having a meeting
Speaker 4: together about the meeting, and you know it's all about that.
Speaker 4: That's really what it is. It's those but those jobs
Speaker 4: in the bucket that totally add up over time. So yeah,
Speaker 4: I think it's believe in that process that we talked about,
Speaker 4: but also be willing to do something.
Speaker 3: I love this advice, and as I'm thinking about flushing
Speaker 3: it out, I'm curious your thoughts on where to begin,
Speaker 3: because if I were to think about my circumstances and
Speaker 3: the things that maybe and putting off from concern might
Speaker 3: not go the way that I want them to, there's
Speaker 3: a lot of them. How can someone who's experiencing this
Speaker 3: version of perfectionism maybe considering themselves lazy for putting it
Speaker 3: off and really we're finding out it's this other thing.
Speaker 3: What are some steps or tips you might have on
Speaker 3: how to identify which one can be the one thing
Speaker 3: that I do.
Speaker 4: So I know there's a lot of great advice out
Speaker 4: there about goals in particular, how you start with the
Speaker 4: end in mind and then you figure out what your
Speaker 4: goal is, then what will you have to do to
Speaker 4: get there? And then you write up all the steps
Speaker 4: and then you come up with the plan that is
Speaker 4: really helpful for certain people and about certain things.
Speaker 1: But for some.
Speaker 4: People, and actually i'd say many people, for certain things,
Speaker 4: whether it's help or wealth or parenting, like that is overwhelming.
Speaker 4: That's not a doucep thing. That's like a tremendous amount
Speaker 4: of work and energy and facing fears and things you're
Speaker 4: struggling with in general. So instead of doing all that,
Speaker 4: I would actually start at the beginning and just think
Speaker 4: about what is one way, one small way I can
Speaker 4: do something to start. And of course that's going to
Speaker 4: be different for everybody, but regardless of what it is,
Speaker 4: doing something to start not only puts you on that
Speaker 4: path of the process to grow, it also creates momentum.
Speaker 4: And that momentum is both physical and mental energy, like
Speaker 4: it does carry power, like you will be able to
Speaker 4: ride a momentum wave too. Then what's next and what's
Speaker 4: next as long as you have that be your goal,
Speaker 4: like how can I do something to start? And this
Speaker 4: is actually more of a mindset shift that I think
Speaker 4: will be helpful to bring up. Is you know, a
Speaker 4: lot of times we want to believe in the all
Speaker 4: or nothing because we want the end result right, And
Speaker 4: if we're acknowledging, like we're actually looking at things differently,
Speaker 4: that all doesn't get you to where you want. Doing
Speaker 4: nothing obviously doesn't either, but doing something does. It actually
Speaker 4: takes a lot of courage because you're used to doing
Speaker 4: it the all or nothing way. And I had this
Speaker 4: client say this two years ago, I actually have a
Speaker 4: terrible memory. Like I love to read, I love to learn,
Speaker 4: but things just go in and out, in and out.
Speaker 4: And this is one of those things that someone said
Speaker 4: to me. And I've remembered a word for words, so
Speaker 4: if I'm remembering this, it's important. And we were talking
Speaker 4: about this whole idea of the process, and she was
Speaker 4: trying this new way, and for her it was a
Speaker 4: personal habit because I tend to coach women a lot
Speaker 4: on habits. I didn't plan too, but there we are.
Speaker 4: And as she was trying this new way, she was realizing, Oh,
Speaker 4: you're right, Like it doesn't feel like I'm changing, but
Speaker 4: now I can see I am and then she said,
Speaker 4: I've learned it takes the greatest of courage to do
Speaker 4: the smallest of things. So yeah, do something to start,
Speaker 4: but have the courage to believe that these smallest of
Speaker 4: things matter and that's okay to do it different.
Speaker 3: What I'm hearing you say is it almost doesn't matter
Speaker 3: if there is such a roadblock here about prioritizing in
Speaker 3: the beginning. Just something, Just pick the low hanging fruit
Speaker 3: and do it and see the momentum and the build
Speaker 3: that can happen from there. Yeah that's helpful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that because it is when you're not
Speaker 1: seeing change and when you're not seeing progress, that all
Speaker 1: or nothing mindset can creep back in and you feel like,
Speaker 1: why am I doing this? Nothing is changing? What is
Speaker 1: the point? But we're so used to in media, social
Speaker 1: or news or otherwise, the things that we see most
Speaker 1: are these mountaintop moments. We see these really big sexy
Speaker 1: stories of overnight successes or big accomplishments like those are
Speaker 1: the stories were fed and so we're reinforced with this idea,
Speaker 1: idea that it can be done. This is average, not
Speaker 1: the exception, but the reason that we're seeing it on
Speaker 1: the news and in media is because it's the exception,
Speaker 1: and so I try to remember that I don't want
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily want to be the exception. I just
Speaker 1: want to see change over time. And it's so hard
Speaker 1: because honestly, I do want to see changes every day,
Speaker 1: like I do want to see more numbers in my
Speaker 1: bank account, and like I do want to feel more
Speaker 1: energy in my close fit. Differently, I want all these
Speaker 1: different things to change at the rate that I am
Speaker 1: exerting effort to change. Yes, but I am the more
Speaker 1: effort I exert change, the less I see. But that's
Speaker 1: that compound interest because when it's easier, when I don't
Speaker 1: think of it is change anymore, when I don't think
Speaker 1: of it as just doing something, it becomes a bit.
Speaker 1: That's when it all takes off.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what can a person expect? Do you think if
Speaker 3: they're hearing this and they're saying, yeah, that's a good aim.
Speaker 3: What if I just aimed at progress small changes over time?
Speaker 3: What if I just did something? What do you think
Speaker 3: they can expect to experience? What barriers are you seeing
Speaker 3: for your clients and some of those initial stages of
Speaker 3: learning more about themselves and trying to just aim at progress.
Speaker 3: What might happen.
Speaker 4: Well, the first is you have to face a lot
Speaker 4: of fear. And that's why we talked about how courage
Speaker 4: is so essential to this because there is going to
Speaker 4: be a lot of fear. Also, there's going to be
Speaker 4: a lot of fear as you're getting into it too,
Speaker 4: just like you talked about Jen, how all of a
Speaker 4: sudden you're like, wait, am I doing this right? Because
Speaker 4: I'm not seeing it, I'm not seeing the results I want.
Speaker 4: There's going to be frustration with that too. There's going
Speaker 4: to be discouragement, there's going to be a questioning like
Speaker 4: of all this. So actually, this is one of the
Speaker 4: things I end up talking to with a lot of
Speaker 4: women that I'm coaching through is all of these things.
Speaker 4: And my answer to them is always, you're doing it right.
Speaker 4: If this is how you're feeling, If you're feeling like
Speaker 4: things are messy, you're messing up here and there, it's
Speaker 4: not straightforward, it's just so slow, or it's or it's
Speaker 4: still frustrating. Like, then you're doing it right. You are
Speaker 4: doing it right. And as part of that, expect failure.
Speaker 4: You know, failure isn't just part of the process, it's
Speaker 4: an essential part. We have to shift our relationship with failure.
Speaker 4: And this all goes back to the whole conversation we've
Speaker 4: been having about perfectionists. I mean, so much of what
Speaker 4: they're hiding from, whether they're hustling or they're on the sidelines,
Speaker 4: is they're hiding from failure. So as we're rewiring the
Speaker 4: way that we see what change actually looks like in growth,
Speaker 4: we also have to change our relationship with failure to
Speaker 4: welcome in in. I mean it's not fun. I'm not
Speaker 4: saying like, let's have a party every time we fail
Speaker 4: or like something to be proud and no, it's just
Speaker 4: more expect it and accept it. And when you do
Speaker 4: learn from it in a different way, it's about getting
Speaker 4: curious about it and also objective about it, about how
Speaker 4: these failures can inform us to move forward in a
Speaker 4: different way, how it can inform the little tweaks we
Speaker 4: do need to make as we move forward. So expect
Speaker 4: a mess. I mean, guys, what I teach is not sexy.
Speaker 4: Talking about what's not sexy, Right, It's hard to market that,
Speaker 4: like because people want they want that overnight success desperately,
Speaker 4: and that is so easy to sell. And since I'm
Speaker 4: in the personal development world, and you guys are in
Speaker 4: the money world. You know this in your world. I
Speaker 4: know this is mine. The people who make a lot
Speaker 4: of money are selling the overnight success and in truth,
Speaker 4: they're selling lives. Oh they're using a couple exceptions to
Speaker 4: sell that life, right, I don't believe in that.
Speaker 3: Hiding their own cumulative journey over time.
Speaker 4: Yes, or they're hiding the price they paid or.
Speaker 1: The privilege that elevated them from the beginning.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, Like I'm getting chills when you say that.
Speaker 3: Yes, because we've seen it, because we know that you're
Speaker 3: not wrong.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and since I know you too, and I
Speaker 4: know myself. Obviously, we're doing things differently. We're trying to
Speaker 4: be ethical about what we're actually teaching people. So when
Speaker 4: I say expect a mess, I'm saying that so people
Speaker 4: actually know when they're in it, they're doing it right.
Speaker 4: To stay the course, that is what to expect. It
Speaker 4: will not be easy, but it will be better, it
Speaker 4: will be more sustainable, and it will be exponential. Really,
Speaker 4: I have changed exponentially since I've actually owned doing something
Speaker 4: instead of being the all or nothing pendulum swing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh, that's so helpful. Can you walk us through
Speaker 3: this is a little bit more like intimate if you like,
Speaker 3: I share it, so, either for you or for a client,
Speaker 3: like a sure time where there was a mistake or
Speaker 3: quote unquote failure, kind of how that gets handled. I
Speaker 3: know you just talked a little bit about some like
Speaker 3: curiosity and objectivity, but kind of the real nitty gritty
Speaker 3: of Yep, a mistake happened. I'm still aiming at progress,
Speaker 3: But holy moly, what do I do with this?
Speaker 4: So I'll do one that's a little deeper, and then
Speaker 4: I'll do one a little practical, and I'll try not
Speaker 4: to do a long version of each. Okay, okay, And
Speaker 4: the deeper one that first came up for me is
Speaker 4: one of the biggest testaments to the process in my
Speaker 4: life was recovering from eating disorders that started at the
Speaker 4: end of my overachieving perfectionist career and then turned into
Speaker 4: my underachieving perfectionism career out of self protection.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: There were literal years I was convinced I was not
Speaker 4: getting better, and early on in my recovery, I remember
Speaker 4: going to like my therapist maybe two months and then
Speaker 4: being like, so things are getting worse.
Speaker 1: Not better.
Speaker 4: And I'm mad. I'm mad because I'm doing everything right.
Speaker 4: I am hustling, I'm working hard, I am like extra vigilant,
Speaker 4: and things are getting worse, not better. And thankfully this
Speaker 4: therapist told me, Monica, you will likely struggle with this
Speaker 4: the rest of your life. Now, for many people, that
Speaker 4: would be very depressing to hear. For me, it was release.
Speaker 4: It gave me permission to struggle, to not fix it overnight.
Speaker 4: Now I'm over eighteen years into my recovery, and I
Speaker 4: can tell you I don't struggle with that, even though
Speaker 4: he told me it would likely be a lifelong thing.
Speaker 4: And it gave me that permission to struggle because I
Speaker 4: had that permission to make mistakes as I went for
Speaker 4: it to not be easy to slip back into old
Speaker 4: patterns or have new patterns that kind of creep up.
Speaker 3: Like all of that.
Speaker 4: I can now tell you eighteen years later that I
Speaker 4: am a different person that I do not struggle in
Speaker 4: the same way that I did. And yet Monica eighteen
Speaker 4: years ago was convinced it was not happening. Even like
Speaker 4: four or five years in, I was convinced I wasn't changing.
Speaker 4: Now I've had that same pattern repeat with I have
Speaker 4: special needs kids. I have out of my five kids
Speaker 4: three so far, no, actually four. We just got another diagnosis.
Speaker 4: We're like an alphabet soup of diagnoses in our family.
Speaker 4: There's been huge things there that I could talk about
Speaker 4: forever that have shown me that change does happen over time.
Speaker 4: It just takes time. In my marriage and our finance
Speaker 4: is all that for sure. But if we're going to
Speaker 4: go really practical, I told you I often coach women
Speaker 4: on habit formation. I actually started to coach women on
Speaker 4: identity and fulfillment, and habits had to come along for
Speaker 4: the ride because that's what made those things possible in our.
Speaker 1: Day to day lives.
Speaker 4: And I am working with a woman who is trying
Speaker 4: to install some creative time after lunch each day, and
Speaker 4: we started with the baseline for her, the smallest and
Speaker 4: simplest way to do something to work on this bigger habit.
Speaker 4: She eventually wants like thirty minutes of it, but now
Speaker 4: she's just starting with four minutes because she can do that.
Speaker 4: On the worst day and her first day doing it,
Speaker 4: she came back to me and she said that wasn't
Speaker 4: really frustrating four minutes. It actually didn't feel good, Like
Speaker 4: I wanted this habit because of how it helps me
Speaker 4: feel like myself, and instead the whole time I was
Speaker 4: drawing that for those four minutes, I just felt stuck.
Speaker 4: And that's where we had to if we're talking about
Speaker 4: how to practically move these through these things, we had
Speaker 4: to get some information, Like we had to zoom out
Speaker 4: and say like, well, what was going on in your
Speaker 4: day in your circumstances, and that illuminated some of that frustration.
Speaker 4: And then we also had to zoom in a bit
Speaker 4: like what's going on internally? Why is this hard? And
Speaker 4: a lot of times it just has to do with
Speaker 4: we're training our brains. And her brain is not used
Speaker 4: to drawing at all right now, because she's been putting
Speaker 4: it on the back burner for so long because she
Speaker 4: wanted the quote unquote right amount of time to do it,
Speaker 4: and she also wanted to do it right and to
Speaker 4: have a good end product. Right, So she honestly is
Speaker 4: just training her brain to be uncomfortable. She's training her
Speaker 4: brain to make mistakes so that she can become a
Speaker 4: better artist, so that she can find more fulfillment in
Speaker 4: her creativity. For some reason, you know, she thought, well,
Speaker 4: creativity means fulfillment, and it's true it does, but that
Speaker 4: also doesn't mean it's absent of frustration, and so working
Speaker 4: through it, we also were able to figure out tactically,
Speaker 4: tactfully I always say this word wrong, we were able
Speaker 4: to figure out practically there we are able to say
Speaker 4: different word altogether, Like if there were some tweaks we
Speaker 4: could make to how she was doing the habit, and
Speaker 4: we do this with other women sometimes there's just tweaks. Okay,
Speaker 4: let's let this failure inform how we're going to tweak
Speaker 4: the plan for her. It wasn't that it was so.
Speaker 4: It was more about being willing to be uncomfortable for
Speaker 4: four minutes until it gradually felt less uncomfortab and then
Speaker 4: to gradually work out the time.
Speaker 3: Great examples. I feel like this helps me to even
Speaker 3: reframe how you were describing, reframing failure, what it means,
Speaker 3: how we're defining it, what we then need to do
Speaker 3: as a result for whatever we're thinking is a mistake
Speaker 3: or whatever we're thinking isn't working. I so appreciate your vulnerability, Monica.
Speaker 3: Thanks for sharing a bit about all of your past
Speaker 3: experiences and where you find yourself now and I can
Speaker 3: resonate with this idea of being able to embrace some
Speaker 3: of the struggle and some of the permission that you
Speaker 3: may carry this for forever. But that doesn't mean that
Speaker 3: there's that there can't be hope in it either. But
Speaker 3: I think if we were told that it could look
Speaker 3: this amazing, bright, flowery, sunny way, that could devastate us
Speaker 3: even more because we're not there. But instead to be
Speaker 3: able to hear you'll never get perfect with your finances,
Speaker 3: you'll never make a perfect budget, you'll never have a
Speaker 3: perfect retirement plan, like no matter how much you know.
Speaker 3: These things are almost freedom and permission giving to be
Speaker 3: able to say, oh, Okay, I don't feel good at
Speaker 3: it now because I'm new to it, but that does
Speaker 3: but I also will probably not feel great, like perfect
Speaker 3: at it in ten years from now. So might as
Speaker 3: well start now, Start making my mistakes, now, have the
Speaker 3: opportunity to learn from it, be able to get better,
Speaker 3: but still know that there's no actual end goal here.
Speaker 3: In a perfect kind of way, there's just the as
Speaker 3: you describe progress that can happen.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's no arrival.
Speaker 1: Yeah, given words to a lot of the things we've
Speaker 1: felt about how to do like how to spend money,
Speaker 1: Like you'll never say no to every impulse purchase, you'll
Speaker 1: never be perfect at spending money, and like we've given
Speaker 1: ourselves permission to to not be perfect. But it's hard.
Speaker 1: It's been hard to like you have the words to
Speaker 1: say why, And I think you've really given us those
Speaker 1: words today.
Speaker 4: All that makes me so encouraged, especially as someone who
Speaker 4: loves both of your work so much. It's nice when
Speaker 4: they can meet, you know.
Speaker 3: Do you know what else I like having a meeting?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's about righting the bill of the week.
Speaker 2: That's right, it's time for the best minute of your
Speaker 2: entire week.
Speaker 1: Maybe a baby was born and his name is William.
Speaker 2: Maybe you've paid off your mortgage, maybe your car died
Speaker 2: and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore.
Speaker 2: That bills, Buffalo bills, Bill Clinton, this is the bill
Speaker 2: of the week, Monico.
Speaker 1: We had prepared you for the yelling, so yes, I
Speaker 1: hope it wasn't too abrasive. But every week we yell
Speaker 1: at our listeners and our guests and invite them to
Speaker 1: share with us their bill for the week, and we
Speaker 1: are excited to hear yours.
Speaker 4: So my bill of the week is I I just
Speaker 4: a quick backstory on this as I grew up in
Speaker 4: like I mean speaking of frugal friends, the most frugal
Speaker 4: household ever, but to the point of it being like
Speaker 4: not that great, like not that necessary and also not
Speaker 4: that great.
Speaker 1: No need to explain, we get that. Yes, I know
Speaker 1: you do.
Speaker 2: I know you do.
Speaker 4: And so it's been a real challenge for me as
Speaker 4: an adult to navigate that whole all or nothing pendulum
Speaker 4: swing of budgeting and managing our money. Like in the
Speaker 4: beginning of our early married life, like I was, you know,
Speaker 4: given the role of being the fin financial manager of
Speaker 4: our family, and there was an Excel spreadsheet with every
Speaker 4: single purchase under every single category. And then five years
Speaker 4: later I was like, I can't do this anymore. And
Speaker 4: then I didn't budget at all for like ten years.
Speaker 4: So all are nothing pugulants being there, But it had
Speaker 4: to do with the guilt I carried over non essential purchases.
Speaker 4: And twenty twenty two was a year for our family
Speaker 4: where we had to do some major amounts of healing
Speaker 4: because of the stress of the pandemic, especially with the
Speaker 4: special needs that you know, were an extra layer to
Speaker 4: what everyone was going through during that time, and we
Speaker 4: had to have a year of fun, and that meant
Speaker 4: we had to spend money on non essential things. Not
Speaker 4: all the money, not all the things, but some non
Speaker 4: essential things. So one of those things that I've been doing,
Speaker 4: and by the way, it did heal our family, and
Speaker 4: we still prioritize it. And I'm still always trying to
Speaker 4: navigate my feelings of feeling guilty over spending money on
Speaker 4: a caramel apple at something like you know, something like that.
Speaker 4: But one of the fun, non essential things I've been
Speaker 4: spending money on. And my bill of the week is
Speaker 4: a little music and toddler like art class for my toddler.
Speaker 4: And you know, he's my fifth Like none of my
Speaker 4: other kids did anything as like a less than two
Speaker 4: year old, Like they didn't get any like we got
Speaker 4: the hand me downs of the entire neighborhood and the
Speaker 4: toys like there were no new anything or special classes.
Speaker 4: And it has been a delight. It has been so
Speaker 4: fun for him and for me to just spend that
Speaker 4: money and to have the time together and to have
Speaker 4: him make some friends and just to get out of
Speaker 4: our house together too. So I have loved that bill.
Speaker 4: Oh and so cute. I I love kids art. I
Speaker 4: I love that so our kindergartener had They actually now
Speaker 4: have a thing where they post his art that he
Speaker 4: makes an art class online and he had it on
Speaker 4: like T shirts and stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I am I'm obsessed. It's just so cute.
Speaker 1: I need that.
Speaker 3: I know, right, this is such a heartwarming bill, Mona Coat.
Speaker 3: We love the ones where it's a bill that we
Speaker 3: don't mind paying because I think it really speaks to
Speaker 3: having done the work of identifying what's most important, what's valuable,
Speaker 3: getting rid of this idea of only spending on essentials,
Speaker 3: only spending on needs, never spending money if you can
Speaker 3: avoid it when we say no, we can spend well,
Speaker 3: just intentionally and mindfully in the ways that we're consuming resources.
Speaker 3: And the fact that you're just delighted to talk about
Speaker 3: this opportunity with your youngest it's just so beautiful. So
Speaker 3: thank you for sharing well, thanks.
Speaker 4: Thanks for teaching me this. You know, this is why
Speaker 4: I pre ordered your book and I can't wait to
Speaker 4: have it so I can remind myself of all these
Speaker 4: things and learn new way of navigating at all.
Speaker 3: Thanks for that plug, Monica. By What You loovebook dot com.
Speaker 3: If you want to get alongside Monica can get our
Speaker 3: book to your front door. And also if you are
Speaker 3: listening and you want to submit a bill of the
Speaker 3: week if it is as heartwarming as Monica is, if
Speaker 3: it's about a bill you don't mind paying, or if
Speaker 3: it's about a bill you can't stand paying, you just
Speaker 3: want to be a camrudge. I don't mean I can't
Speaker 3: even say the words the convent to us. That'd be
Speaker 3: great too, Fords Podcast dot com slash bill, leave us
Speaker 3: your bill, and now it's time for the show.
Speaker 1: We do all of our own sound effects, Monica. Everybody
Speaker 1: loves it every time we say that to every guest
Speaker 1: because we are so proud. They are not tired of that.
Speaker 1: All right, So today's lightning round. What's something you'd like
Speaker 1: to do but haven't started yet because you're worried a
Speaker 1: about how it will turn out? Oh yeah, this is
Speaker 1: the vulnerability round. Hi, we are in it. Goldie, our
Speaker 1: podcast manager writes these and we have to get vulnerable
Speaker 1: as well. But Monica will let you start something you'd
Speaker 1: you'd like to do but haven't yet started because maybe
Speaker 1: a little worried about it.
Speaker 4: Uh yes, I think for me.
Speaker 3: It actually is.
Speaker 4: I'm going back to that client. You know, I got
Speaker 4: to practice my own what I've been preaching to her,
Speaker 4: and it's oil painting. I've always wanted to be an
Speaker 4: oil painter, and I just keep not getting around to it,
Speaker 4: you know. So, but I'm sure it has a lot
Speaker 4: to do with what we just talked about today. So
Speaker 4: I've got to untingle that a bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh gosh, do you have an answer?
Speaker 1: Okay, So I think for a while, I've It's all
Speaker 1: I've never wanted to because I've always been worried about it,
Speaker 1: not being able to do it. But like, deep down inside,
Speaker 1: I would never admit, but I will admit now I've
Speaker 1: wanted to run a marathon, but like, running a half
Speaker 1: marathon is so hard, Like I've run several of those,
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, I don't know if I could
Speaker 1: do a full but I've wanted to, but I am
Speaker 1: worried about how training would go and how the actual
Speaker 1: thing would go. But a friend and I have talked
Speaker 1: about doing the Disney World Marathon in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1: That would be cool. Yeah, so you've got to do it.
Speaker 3: You've got to do it because you say you want to.
Speaker 3: Aside from that, I don't understand. I'm never gonna be like,
Speaker 3: you've got to run a marathon just for the heck
Speaker 3: of it, But if it is something you have on
Speaker 3: your mind, I'm gonna cheer you on.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Jill.
Speaker 3: Oh, my vulnerability. Let's see, Honestly, the thing that I've
Speaker 3: been most nervous about lately, this is very vulnerable, is well.
Speaker 3: I suppose specifically TV appearances about our book. It's one
Speaker 3: of the things that we are aimed at doing, and
Speaker 3: it's new to me. And I love talking and I
Speaker 3: love talking to Jen, and I love talking to people
Speaker 3: like you. But something like that where they're like, give
Speaker 3: us your best hot take and three minutes or less, like,
Speaker 3: I know, give me forty five minutes.
Speaker 1: I know, right, That's why it's so hard for us
Speaker 1: to do social media because I can't do anything in
Speaker 1: sixty seconds.
Speaker 3: I know you will.
Speaker 1: I can't do anything in sixty seconds.
Speaker 3: But the thing that trips me up about this question
Speaker 3: is something you would like to do, you want to do, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I've also got the the thing like I just don't
Speaker 3: want to do it, yeah, but I am also worried
Speaker 3: about it. Whatever, Jen will be there with me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will be there. We'll get it. It'll be fine.
Speaker 3: And you know what, if it's not fine, Monica says,
Speaker 3: that's great too.
Speaker 1: We'll learn from it. To fail, we will learn from it. Monica,
Speaker 1: thank you so so much for joining us. Where can
Speaker 1: people find more from you?
Speaker 4: Since you're already listening to a podcast, come check out mine.
Speaker 4: It's called about Progress and Jen. It will have been
Speaker 4: on the show. I don't know when this is airing,
Speaker 4: or will be on the show regardless of when this
Speaker 4: is airing, and we talk about all things personal development.
Speaker 4: There ab outside of perfectionism, and it's both practical and
Speaker 4: deep and I absolutely love doing it. So again, about progress.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Monica's great having you.
Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: I really appreciated a conversation that was really focused on
Speaker 1: the all or nothing mindset, because it is literally something
Speaker 1: I have said, like I'm very all or nothing, like
Speaker 1: I either go all in or I don't go And
Speaker 1: I thought that was a personality trait and I stopped
Speaker 1: thinking that a while ago, but I couldn't put words
Speaker 1: to what it was or maybe even like I knew
Speaker 1: I had adopted this different way of thinking about a progress,
Speaker 1: but I really couldn't put that, like I couldn't connect
Speaker 1: the dots with words about how I got there. And
Speaker 1: Monica did that really well. And I hope that that
Speaker 1: maybe helped other people see if you're on the other
Speaker 1: side or if you're in the middle, which most people
Speaker 1: are in the middle, Like, I hope that helped you
Speaker 1: articulate what's going on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think dispelling the myth about our typical idea
Speaker 3: of perfectionists was really helpful to me and helpful in
Speaker 3: my own question asking of myself, like, what's the barrier
Speaker 3: for me doing this? Is it truly because I will
Speaker 3: I will believe I'm just lazy. I just don't want
Speaker 3: to do anything, But to ask myself an additional question
Speaker 3: of is it because I'm afraid of doing it wrong
Speaker 3: or I'm afraid of making a mistake? And I think
Speaker 3: as I process through some of these experiences I've had recently,
Speaker 3: it's more so that one I just I don't want
Speaker 3: to mess it up, and knowing that can give me
Speaker 3: a little bit more of a pathway forward you want
Speaker 3: to do next.
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people feel like that
Speaker 1: with investing, Oh yeah, or negotiating or lowering a bill
Speaker 1: like that's I don't want to do it wrong and
Speaker 1: mess it up and then go the other way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know about it. It must be too
Speaker 3: complicated for me. There's all sorts of things we tell ourselves.
Speaker 1: I just don't have the time to learn about it
Speaker 1: right now, and so I can't start because I don't
Speaker 1: have the time to learn, and I don't have the
Speaker 1: time to learn all about it like hyper fixing learn,
Speaker 1: these are these are the things that we personally are
Speaker 1: grappling with in topics, and so yeah, it's just a
Speaker 1: good reminder even when you've already been through it. So
Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening. We hope that you
Speaker 1: were encouraged and taught by this episode, and if you were,
Speaker 1: we would love if you'd leave us a rating and
Speaker 1: review on Apple or Spotify, kind of like this one
Speaker 1: from Samantha s twenty two relaxed, fun and informative Happens
Speaker 1: to Be five stars. Jen and Jill give relevant information
Speaker 1: related to finance in real life fun podcast to throw
Speaker 1: into the mix each week.
Speaker 3: I love being thrown into the mix. I love how
Speaker 3: that sounds because you know the mix. Are we next
Speaker 3: to Yeah, really, Samantha s point two give us a
Speaker 3: follow up. I want to know, but I think I'm
Speaker 3: imagining that we're in there with all sorts of other
Speaker 3: just fun podcasts. This is not, you know, just I'm
Speaker 3: consuming all business and investing all the time. It's the
Speaker 3: frugal friends next to the cults, next to the.
Speaker 1: We are the real business and investing podcast right like,
Speaker 1: if you need it, that's frugal friends, business, very business.
Speaker 3: You know. This is confirming a thought that I had
Speaker 3: this week of Okay, yeah, we've been saying it like
Speaker 3: we are our podcast is in the lifestyle category on Apple,
Speaker 3: but I really have felt recently like we are a
Speaker 3: personal finance podcast for people who don't typically consume personal
Speaker 3: finance content. For some reason, that was a bit of
Speaker 3: an AHA moment for me of like kind of who
Speaker 3: you all are are out there? And Samantha, I do
Speaker 3: You're kind of confirming that And I love thinking that
Speaker 3: I'm just like in the.
Speaker 1: Mix, even if all the other podcasts she is talking
Speaker 1: about our business and personal trind No, it's not John
Speaker 1: and Samanda and will still love you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Please leave a rating and review, maybe mention some of
Speaker 1: the other shows you listen to, Yes, a rising tie.
Speaker 3: Oh that's a great tip, because we say ratings and
Speaker 3: reviews help other people find us and know if we're
Speaker 3: going to be a right fit for them. So if
Speaker 3: you listen to us and like us, tell them the
Speaker 3: other types of podcasts that you listen to with in
Speaker 3: your review, so then other people can know. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I liked that one too, therefore I can like this one. Yeah. Okay,
Speaker 3: thanks for listening, thanks for being here.
Speaker 1: Okay, bye bye. Gorugal Friends is produced by Eric Siriani.
Speaker 1: What if Frugal Friends was in your mix, what would
Speaker 1: be the other podcast? Do you even listen to podcasts? Jill, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what I thought.
Speaker 3: I listen to the podcasts of the people who are
Speaker 3: going to be on our show, or if I'm going
Speaker 3: to guest on their show. Yes, I'll listen to an episode,
Speaker 3: and so that's what my podcast players filled with.
Speaker 1: You know what I listen to? Wait, wait, don't tell
Speaker 1: me we do. Nobody is surprised because I actually mostly
Speaker 1: listen to audiobooks. But if I'm with Travis, then we're
Speaker 1: listening to Wait wait, don't tell me, we're catching up.
Speaker 3: When I go on a road trip, I will listen
Speaker 3: to something like a serial podcast or something like that.
Speaker 3: Eric and I will enjoy those more like story form
Speaker 3: investigative type of podcasts.
Speaker 1: It's just after doing so many I become almost judgmental
Speaker 1: of other shows that do I don't know, people just
Speaker 1: do things differently, and that's great, and they should do
Speaker 1: things differently, and and I just want to give everyone
Speaker 1: the freedom to do what they do well. And I
Speaker 1: just don't want to know what it is.
Speaker 3: I feel like those podcasts are so different from us though.
Speaker 1: That, but we are in business still.
Speaker 3: We're so business. Were business, they know, so business.
Speaker 1: All the who you know other business podcast wanted to
Speaker 1: be as successful as us. They should business like we business.
Speaker 3: I mean, we're not lounging in comfy chairs with microphones
Speaker 3: covered in pink. What are these called? We wanted to
Speaker 3: call them pop filters, but that's not that is always
Speaker 3: what we've called them, pink pink smushies over a mashie
Speaker 3: that they are the business like us. Get our jargon down.
Speaker 1: Get our hearts where lings loop back on that.
Speaker 3: Do a do a check in by E O D.
Speaker 1: Business Babes coming soon