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Speaker 1: You're listening to Law and Order Criminal Justice System, a

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Speaker 1: production of Wolf Entertainment and iHeart podcasts.

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Speaker 2: In the criminal justice System, landmark trials transcend the courtroom

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Speaker 2: to reshape the law. The brave many women who investigate

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Speaker 2: and prosecute these cases are part of a select group

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Speaker 2: that has defined American history. These are their stories. April

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three, Waco, Texas.

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Speaker 1: On a dusty stretch of Texas Prairie, the FBI had

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Speaker 1: the Branch Davidian compound surrounded. What began as a raid

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Speaker 1: by the ATF based on firearms allegations, resulted in a

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Speaker 1: shootout that left four agents and six Branch Davidians dead.

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Speaker 1: The resulting standoff between federal agents and the eighty six

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Speaker 1: people that remained inside had already lasted well over a month.

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Speaker 1: The impasse was front page news. Many days had been

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Speaker 1: spent hoping for a breakthrough that never seemed to materialize.

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Speaker 3: One instance, they said stand by surrender is imminent.

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Speaker 4: So we waited, and we waited.

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Speaker 3: Eventually the team leader called command and said, hey, what

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Speaker 3: about this imminent surrender? They said, oh, no, negotiations broke

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Speaker 3: down quite some time ago.

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Speaker 1: Never mind, some people came out, but most stayed inside, defiant, scared,

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Speaker 1: or both. Amongst the eighty six people that remained were children.

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Speaker 3: As negotiations waned, one of the last little girls was

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Speaker 3: let out. One of our HRT operators brought her to

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Speaker 3: me in a Bradley fighting vehicle. Little blondhaired girl, Blue

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Speaker 3: Eye carried her over to a health and Human services worker,

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Speaker 3: and that was the last child that got out alive.

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Speaker 1: As the days passed, negotiations continued to stall. Law enforcement

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Speaker 1: grew increasingly worried about the children's safety, about the violence

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Speaker 1: that might soon erupt.

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Speaker 3: The decision was made in Washington to introduce tear gas.

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Speaker 3: HRT was enclose trying to rescue some of the people.

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Speaker 3: One lady came out and then actually went back inside.

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Speaker 3: These folks did not intend to surrender.

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Speaker 1: Moments later, the compound's fate was sealed.

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Speaker 3: The Davidians set three simultaneous fires inside the compound and

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Speaker 3: it erupted. That fire spread so rapidly there was a strong,

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Speaker 3: strong wind that fueled the fire.

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Speaker 1: By the time it was finally out, nothing recognizable remained.

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Speaker 4: These are horrific scenes.

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Speaker 3: The compound was destroyed.

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Speaker 4: It was raised to.

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Speaker 1: The ground inside the after myth told a grim story.

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Speaker 3: There was a concrete room. The walls were just lined

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Speaker 3: with long gun but that's where most of the remains

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Speaker 3: that the women and children were found. Those that died

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Speaker 3: from the burns or smoke inhalation. It was something that

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Speaker 3: you really can't unsee.

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Speaker 1: Outside. The lengthy standoff had drawn crowds of onlookers.

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Speaker 3: There were significant number of protesters.

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Speaker 1: The anti government faction held signs. They shouted about government overreach.

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Speaker 1: They were there because of Waco, but also because it

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Speaker 1: was right on the back of Ruby Ridge, another recent

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Speaker 1: government standoff that started with a warrant and ended in bloodshed.

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Speaker 1: Amongst the protesters was a man whose name would soon

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Speaker 1: be known around the world. A Gulf War veteran radicalized

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Speaker 1: by anti government beliefs, he was already plotting and his

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Speaker 1: rage would soon boil over. His name was Timothy McVay.

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Speaker 5: Well, get out to LaGuardia Airport.

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Speaker 3: There's been a bombing. There was a thirty two foot

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Speaker 3: crater in front of what was left of the building.

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Speaker 6: I was trying to figure out am I dead? Am

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Speaker 6: I alive? Where am I?

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Speaker 1: I'm Anisee and NICOLASI.

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Speaker 7: That's why terrorism works.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't care who you are. From Wolf Entertainment and

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Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts. This is Law and Order criminal justice system.

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Speaker 1: Terrorism can be measured in many ways, in the scale

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Speaker 1: of destruction, the lives it claims, or in the story

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Speaker 1: of a single person who survived it. For Amy Down's

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Speaker 1: that story began far from bombs or national headlines. She

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Speaker 1: lived in Oklahoma City, though it hadn't been part of

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Speaker 1: her plan.

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Speaker 6: I had plunked out of college because I couldn't pass

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Speaker 6: a math class. My sister lived in Oklahoma City, and

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Speaker 6: she said, you know, you just need a fresh start,

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Speaker 6: come move here, and so I did.

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Speaker 1: A move offered a change of scenery. Amy still had

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Speaker 1: to figure out what came next, starting with how to

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Speaker 1: support herself.

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Speaker 6: With my amazing math skills. I thought I would apply

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Speaker 6: for a job as a teller at this credit union

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Speaker 6: that was inside the federal building in downtown Oklahoma City.

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Speaker 1: Amy got the job. Her new office was located in

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Speaker 1: the Alfred pi Mura Building in downtown Oklahoma City, a

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Speaker 1: neighborhood that at the time didn't exactly buzz with energy.

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Speaker 6: It was a federal building. It kind of looks like

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Speaker 6: nineteen seventies or sixties, even orange, a lot of orange,

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Speaker 6: and I was on the third floor of this nine

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Speaker 6: story building, just very plain building.

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Speaker 1: Inside it housed a patchwork of federal offices and services.

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Speaker 6: Social Security was on the first floor. There was hud

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Speaker 6: ATF a law enforcement agency secret service. We had a

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Speaker 6: daycare on the second floor. My office was on the

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Speaker 6: third floor, front and center of the building, at just

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Speaker 6: a few feet from the front glass windows.

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Speaker 1: Amy gradually moved her way up.

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Speaker 6: I had worked as a teller for many years and

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Speaker 6: had just gotten the job in the Visa credit card department,

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Speaker 6: hosting credit card payments and working up loan applications for

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Speaker 6: people who wanted a credit card.

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Speaker 1: After years of feeling stuck in college disappointments, her life

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Speaker 1: was starting to move forward. Until Wednesday, April nineteenth, nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety five. Amy remembers it like it was yesterday.

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Speaker 6: It was a really beautiful spring morning, and I was

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Speaker 6: super excited because I was getting ready to move into

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Speaker 6: my very first house.

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Speaker 1: She clocked in early. Her official workday began at eight am.

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Speaker 6: I was running around talking to all my friends at work,

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Speaker 6: showing them pictures of the house, just super excited.

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Speaker 1: Also, there was Amy's best friend Sonya.

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Speaker 6: She was getting ready to go to her first supervisor meeting.

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Speaker 6: She was showing us what she had picked out to wear.

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Speaker 6: She had picked out a power suit. It was supposed

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Speaker 6: to be this bold color that it exuded confidence, but

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Speaker 6: she had picked a bright yellow suit. So she was

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Speaker 6: suddenly having some panic that, in her words, I just

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Speaker 6: looked like a big old yellow sunflower. And so we

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Speaker 6: were all telling her she looked great, She's gonna do awesome.

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Speaker 6: You know, go to the meeting. You got this.

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Speaker 1: The energy in the room was upbeat, friends supporting each other,

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Speaker 1: sharing small moments before the day settled in.

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Speaker 6: So I headed off to my desk. We'll begin working.

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Speaker 6: One of my coworkers, who was seven months pregnant, sat

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Speaker 6: down right beside me to ask me something, and I

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Speaker 6: was signing on my computer and doing a couple of

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Speaker 6: things before I turned to say, hey, what do you need.

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Speaker 6: I'm not sure if the words ever even came out

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Speaker 6: of my mouth or not. That's when the bomb went off.

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Speaker 6: It was this extremely loud roaring in my head that

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Speaker 6: was so loud it was just distorted. I couldn't even

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Speaker 6: really make out the sound, and I could hear screaming

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Speaker 6: all around and this popping noise. I thought maybe I

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Speaker 6: had been shot in the back of the head.

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Speaker 1: The terror mounted from there.

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Speaker 6: And I could feel a rushing sensation like I was falling.

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Speaker 6: Then all of a sudden, everything was quiet. There was

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Speaker 6: no more screaming, no more noise. Everything was pitch black,

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Speaker 6: and I could not move. That had fallen three floors,

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Speaker 6: was buried under about ten feet of brubble, upside down,

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Speaker 6: still in my desk chair. I couldn't move and I

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Speaker 6: couldn't see anything.

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Speaker 1: Amy was alive, at least for the moment.

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Speaker 6: The third and the fourth floors broke off and I

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Speaker 6: fell with the rubble. But those floors wedged in a

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Speaker 6: way that it protected me. They formed a V and

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Speaker 6: I somehow was wedged in it, and the rubble filled

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Speaker 6: in around it and everything. But somehow I was in

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Speaker 6: a pocket that was protected.

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Speaker 1: The silence around her was.

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Speaker 6: I was screaming for help, but there was no answer,

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Speaker 6: no reply. I was trying to figure out maybe am

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Speaker 6: I dead? Am I alive? Where am I?

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Speaker 1: Then through the rubble, a faint sound broke through.

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Speaker 6: I could hear a siren going off in the distance,

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Speaker 6: and I remember thinking, hey, I'm still alive.

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Speaker 1: The shockwave of the blast was already rippling across the city.

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Speaker 3: It was a tremendous roar.

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Speaker 1: FBI Special Agent Barry Black felt it from miles away.

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Speaker 3: I was seven linear miles from downtown Oklahoma City. It

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Speaker 3: registered three point two on the Richter scale, like an earthquake.

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Speaker 1: Whatever had happened downtown was serious enough to trigger a

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Speaker 1: federal response.

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Speaker 3: My pager went off, and the encrypted FBI radio in

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Speaker 3: my vehicle it started to chatter. But a large vehicle

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Speaker 3: boorn ied was not the first thought, so we were

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Speaker 3: told federal building had been damaged, a plane crash or

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Speaker 3: a gas main explosion.

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Speaker 1: Barry knew the area well. He'd been there since he'd

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Speaker 1: entered the Bureau as a field agent, starting with fraud

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Speaker 1: investigations and financial crimes, but he'd always wanted to be

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Speaker 1: closer to the action. He soon got his wish. His

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Speaker 1: first major deployment had been the Branch Davidian standoff in Waco, Texas,

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Speaker 1: which you heard about at the top of this episode.

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Speaker 3: I was in the compound as the firefighters were putting

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Speaker 3: out that blaze. Once things settled down, I saw a

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Speaker 3: new group come in that I didn't recognize I saw.

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Speaker 3: I asked one of them, what do you guys do?

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Speaker 3: He said, well, we're FBI bomb technicians. They're only about

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Speaker 3: two hundred and twenty at any one time in the world,

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Speaker 3: and I was fascinated.

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Speaker 1: After returning to Oklahoma City, Barry moved from money cases

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Speaker 1: to bombs.

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Speaker 3: I was able to get into the Hazard's Device's school

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Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety four, and it was fifty three weeks

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Speaker 3: after I finished bomb school that the Muraor Building was bombed.

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Speaker 3: That was my first bombing case.

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Speaker 1: As soon as he got the call, a feeling of

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Speaker 1: dread to go over Barry. He knew the Federal building

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Speaker 1: all too well.

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Speaker 3: My wife, she was a federal employee and she was

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Speaker 3: in the building. I didn't know where she was. So

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Speaker 3: before nine point thirty, I pulled my little Olsmobile up

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Speaker 3: on the curb as close as I could get without

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Speaker 3: getting into the debris field. It was obviously there had

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Speaker 3: been an explosion.

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Speaker 1: It was work, yes, but at the moment it was

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Speaker 1: also his family. Before he could do anything else, Barry

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Speaker 1: needed to find his wife.

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Speaker 3: As I started that walk about the perimeter, I was

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Speaker 3: looking for her. I asked one of the court security

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Speaker 3: officers if he had seen her, and he said, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I've seen her.

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Speaker 4: She's fine.

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Speaker 1: It took more than an hour before he actually heard

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Speaker 1: from her.

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Speaker 3: She paged me and had left a message that she

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Speaker 3: had left the mirror building at nine o'clock. The blast

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Speaker 3: was at nine oh two.

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Speaker 1: A mere two minutes from death.

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Speaker 3: There are churches on either side, she said. She remembered

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Speaker 3: the church bells were ringing nine o'clock. She drove right

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Speaker 3: in front of the bomb, got over to I thirty five.

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Speaker 3: When the detonation occurred and the overpressure moved her car.

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Speaker 4: She was okay.

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Speaker 1: Others weren't so lucky. Barry's thoughts shifted to the work

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Speaker 1: he had in front of him. Almost immediately. He could

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Speaker 1: see the unique signature of explosives.

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Speaker 3: When there's a detonation, the atmosphere is compressed, it sort

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Speaker 3: of pushes everything out spherically, and the cars in the

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Speaker 3: parking lot that were burning had been pushed back from

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Speaker 3: that overpressure. The street signs had been wrapped around the

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Speaker 3: poles they were on. The magnitude of this case was

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Speaker 3: apparent from the beginning.

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Speaker 1: The scale of the destruction was shocking.

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Speaker 3: It was like something I had never seen before. Clearly

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Speaker 3: it was a large vehicle born ied truck bomb. There

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Speaker 3: was a thirty two foot crater in front of what

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Speaker 3: was left of the building. It's a nine story building

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Speaker 3: which is effectively gone. The back wall and most of

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Speaker 3: the east and west walls were still standing, but the

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Speaker 3: building was gutted. Fires were burning across the street the

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Speaker 3: thermal effect of a device that large set cars on fire.

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Speaker 3: Three hundred buildings in the shrounding area had been damaged.

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Speaker 3: Glass was broken in about a twelve block radius. It

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Speaker 3: was unbelievable. There were walking, wounded people trapped in the building.

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Speaker 3: The building was unstable, and in those early moments, absolute chaos.

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Speaker 3: The people come first, right, so search and rescue, firefighters.

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Speaker 3: They were getting people out anyway they.

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Speaker 1: Could, people like Amy, who was literally suspended upside down

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Speaker 1: in the rubble.

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Speaker 6: It was about forty five minutes before I heard voices

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Speaker 6: and I heard a man saying, split up, let's look

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Speaker 6: for the daycare babies. I started screaming, and he said,

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Speaker 6: I hear you, I hear you, child. How old are you?

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Speaker 6: And I remember kind of not answering right away because

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Speaker 6: I thought if I told him I was twenty eight,

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Speaker 6: he wasn't going to come get me, but I said,

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Speaker 6: I'm sorry, I'm twenty eight. He said that's okay, and

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Speaker 6: he starts screaming. We have a live one. We have

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Speaker 6: a live one. He said, we can't see you. We

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Speaker 6: have to follow this sound of your voice. Stay with us.

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Speaker 1: Amy kept calling out, desperately hoping they'd reach her in time,

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Speaker 1: but the building was extremely unstable, still claiming lives even

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Speaker 1: as rescue efforts began.

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Speaker 3: Police officer good friend of mine. He was in the

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Speaker 3: building talking to a man that had been trapped. There's

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Speaker 3: a big semicircular bite that was taken right out of

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Speaker 3: the middle. He was talking to him across that chasm

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Speaker 3: and said, hey, we're going to get a ladder. We're

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Speaker 3: going to put it across. We'll come and get you.

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Speaker 3: As he's having that conversation, more debris felt he killed

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Speaker 3: the man he was talking to.

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Speaker 1: No one was safe, including first responders.

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Speaker 3: There was a nurse that self deployed. She came on

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Speaker 3: her day off entered the building, was killed by falling debris.

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Speaker 1: Amy kept calling.

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Speaker 6: I kept talking and he got closer and my right

269
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Speaker 6: hand was sticking out of the side of the rebel pile.

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Speaker 6: So I could wave that hand around a little bit,

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Speaker 6: but that was it. I could not move my hands.

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Speaker 6: I couldn't move anything, and they came across my hand.

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Speaker 1: Rescue felt just seconds away.

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Speaker 6: I thought, one, two, three, he's going to pull me

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Speaker 6: up and out.

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Speaker 1: But that isn't what happened.

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Speaker 6: I heard a lot of commotion, people screaming and yelling

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Speaker 6: there's another bomb, there's another bomb, Get out now. One

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Speaker 6: man was yelling, there's another bomb. It's going to be

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Speaker 6: worse than the first. Let's go, and they were very panic.

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Speaker 1: Amy felt hope slipping away.

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Speaker 6: I then realized what the situation was, and my rescuers

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Speaker 6: were trying to talk over all this, saying Amy, we

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Speaker 6: need to get some more hydraulic equipment. We're going to

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Speaker 6: be right back. But I could hear I knew. I

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Speaker 6: just told him my name over and over again, and

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Speaker 6: to tell my family I love them because I knew

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Speaker 6: this was it. So with that they were.

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Speaker 1: Gone alone in the dark, the silence began to feel final.

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Speaker 6: That was the worst part, the moment when I realized

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Speaker 6: my life was over and I was only twenty eight,

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Speaker 6: thinking I've never even lived and I'm getting ready to die,

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Speaker 6: and I began experiencing basically what you would describe as

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Speaker 6: life flashing before your eyes.

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Speaker 1: As Amy greeb for the life she thought she'd never know,

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Speaker 1: her mind began to race.

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Speaker 6: All of a sudden with this realization that it's over,

298
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Speaker 6: this is it. I was just thinking about if I

299
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Speaker 6: had a second chance, how my life would be different.

300
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Speaker 6: And I wished I would have been more intentional and

301
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:47,000
Speaker 6: lived with purpose, and really regretting some relationships that I

302
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Speaker 6: had let fall by the wayside. I was wishing that

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Speaker 6: I had stayed closer to friends and family.

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Speaker 1: Amy's will to live took over.

305
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Speaker 6: I was praying and begging God for this another chance.

306
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Speaker 6: It just felt too soon for it to all be over.

307
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Speaker 6: I remember resigning myself to the fact that, you know, okay,

308
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Speaker 6: the sit this is it. You know, just praying, and

309
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Speaker 6: I remember even singing what is sing? It was just

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Speaker 6: a praise and worship song that we used to sing

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Speaker 6: growing up at church, and I felt peace.

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Speaker 1: No second bomb went off, Rescue workers returned.

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Speaker 6: They came right back after that second bomb, scared and

314
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Speaker 6: continued working.

315
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Speaker 1: Digging through whatever was keeping her trapped.

316
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Speaker 6: I knew there was an emergency position on standby talking

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Speaker 6: about imputating my leg. I was upside down in the

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Speaker 6: remopile so that my leg was at the top. That's

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Speaker 6: how they could see the leg. So I started telling them, hey,

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Speaker 6: if you guys need to cut my leg off, if

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Speaker 6: you need to cut something off, you need to do it.

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Speaker 1: As her desperation grew, first responders were made level headed.

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Speaker 6: Finally they said, okay, we're going to count the third pull.

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Speaker 6: This is probably going to hurt. They came to three,

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Speaker 6: and they pulled, and I came out from into the

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Speaker 6: rubble for the first time, and it did hurt. Every

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Speaker 6: nerve came alive at that point, but for the first

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Speaker 6: time I was free.

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Speaker 1: As she emerged, the shock was just beginning.

330
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Speaker 6: I could look around and I remember thinking, this isn't real.

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Speaker 6: I'm in a movie. This is not real. I could

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Speaker 6: not believe what I was seeing with my eyes. It

333
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,640
Speaker 6: was just utter destruction, just complete war zone.

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Speaker 1: As she tried to comprehend what she was seeing, Amy

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Speaker 1: was taken from what was left up the building.

336
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Speaker 6: They put me on the back of a gurney and

337
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Speaker 6: took me out of the back of what was once

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Speaker 6: the building. I remember looking up at the sky and

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Speaker 6: it had been this beautiful spring morning earlier.

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Speaker 1: A morning that now felt like another lifetime.

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Speaker 6: Everything had changed. It looked like it was the middle

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Speaker 6: of winter. It was completely dark gray, it was starting

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Speaker 6: to rain. It was cold. But I will never forget

344
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Speaker 6: taking that first breath of fresh air. I remember promising God,

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Speaker 6: I'll never live my life the same.

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Speaker 8: A federal office building in Oklahoma City lies in ruins tonight,

347
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,040
Speaker 8: and here's the very latest. At least twenty six people

348
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Speaker 8: were killed. That includes twelve children trapped inside a daycare center.

349
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Speaker 8: But the death toll is expected to swell because there

350
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Speaker 8: were still three hundred people unaccounted for.

351
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Speaker 1: Amy Downs had miraculously survived, but the trauma had just begun.

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Speaker 6: There were quite a few people who did not make

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Speaker 6: it that were near me.

354
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Speaker 1: Rescuers were overwhelmed as they raced against the clock. Lives

355
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 1: hung in the balance. They faced impossible choices.

356
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Speaker 3: There was a victim who was in the building with

357
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Speaker 3: her kids and mom, All of them had been killed.

358
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,520
Speaker 3: She was trapped and this doctor had to amputate her

359
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,480
Speaker 3: leg with no anesthesia just to extricate her. He had

360
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,639
Speaker 3: to finish that procedure with his pocket knife because his

361
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:12,240
Speaker 3: tools had become so dull. It was a horrific scene.

362
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Speaker 1: All this in the first hours after the bombing. Sirens

363
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,640
Speaker 1: wailed as Amy was taken to the hospital. Rescuers were

364
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,960
Speaker 1: still pulling survivors from the wreckage and recovering the debt.

365
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,719
Speaker 1: At the same time, investigators were already unseene trying to

366
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Speaker 1: answer the question at the forefront of everyone's mind, who

367
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:34,639
Speaker 1: did this and how?

368
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,880
Speaker 3: There were over a million, eight thousand man hours expended

369
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 3: during the course of this investigation. A lot of it

370
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,320
Speaker 3: happens at the same time, so we had teams of

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00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,520
Speaker 3: people from all over the country, highly trained urban search

372
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 3: and rescue folks, bomb techs, each working there on discipline.

373
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Speaker 1: One of the investigators who arrived to help wasn't even

374
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Speaker 1: in the same time zone when the bomb went off.

375
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 9: I was in Sakura, Mexico, to duplicate and test the

376
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Speaker 9: ninety three Trade Center device.

377
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 1: If that voice sounds familiar, it's because Dave Williams, a

378
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,480
Speaker 1: former FBI examiner, was in our last episode. He was

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Speaker 1: one of those tasked with investigating the nineteen ninety three

380
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,760
Speaker 1: bombing of the World Trade Center that April morning. Dave's

381
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,720
Speaker 1: assignment was controlled detonation in a test field, but within

382
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Speaker 1: minutes he was headed to the real thing, and the

383
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Speaker 1: order came from the top.

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Speaker 7: We are sending the world's finest investigators to solve these murders.

385
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Speaker 4: Let there be no room for doubt. We will find

386
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 4: the people who did this.

387
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Speaker 7: When we do, justice will be swift, certain, and severe.

388
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Speaker 9: Bill Clinton, who was the president at the time, said

389
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,160
Speaker 9: Dave Williams. He said, I want him to run this one.

390
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Speaker 1: Not too often that you're being handpicked by the President

391
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 1: of the United States to run an investigation. Right as

392
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 1: first responders continue to go through the wreckage, law enforcement's

393
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 1: strong response was clear.

394
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Speaker 7: The United States will not tolerate it, and I will

395
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 7: not allow the people of this country to be intimidated

396
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Speaker 7: by evil cowards.

397
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Speaker 4: These people are killers.

398
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Speaker 1: Dave got to work as soon as he arrived. The

399
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: devastation was obvious, but within it we're also clues.

400
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 9: We ended up parking about five or six blocks away

401
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 9: and had to walk in because of the debris that

402
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,920
Speaker 9: was all over the road. That's when I start formulating

403
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 9: what was my device, what kind of explosives. On the

404
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 9: walk in, there was a taxicab garage that was completely

405
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,919
Speaker 9: collapsed from ground vibration.

406
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 1: As he surveyed the scene, Dave began to identify the

407
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 1: bomb itself. It would help direct the investigation.

408
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 9: I said, looks to be about four thousand pounds of

409
00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:00,919
Speaker 9: an anphotype explosive, So was ammonium nitrate fertilizer with fuel oil.

410
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 9: That in itself is an indicator. They had to gather

411
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 9: this fertilizer, so that's going to leave a trail somewhere

412
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 9: and you just can't put a match to enlighten it

413
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 9: or put a fuse in it. So you need another

414
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 9: explosive in there to initiate the detonation of the anfo itself.

415
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 9: And it's given our investigators something to look for it.

416
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 1: They also began finding small pieces of blue and white plastic.

417
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 9: They were identified as barrel parts about fifty gallons, and

418
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 9: the energetic event appeared on those plastic fragments to come

419
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 9: from the inside to the outside. So logic dictates that

420
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 9: the explosives were placed in barrels in a V formation

421
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 9: to tackle that corner of the mirror building.

422
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,919
Speaker 1: While Dave was focusing on the bomb, Barry was working

423
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 1: on what carried it.

424
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 3: Early after the blast, a deputy sheriff called me over

425
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 3: to what I call the rear end differential housing or

426
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 3: the rear axle of a truck.

427
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: It was a critical fine.

428
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 8: Reports say the FBI is putting together pieces of a

429
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 8: truck they think carried the bomb.

430
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 3: Some parts were found two blocks away. It was twisted.

431
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 3: It weighed about three hundred pounds and was blown about

432
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,199
Speaker 3: six hundred feet. It had clearly been very close to

433
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 3: the seat of the blast. This deputy wiped some grease

434
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 3: away and revealed an alpha numeric string, which is a

435
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 3: confidential vehicle identification number.

436
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 1: With the then number in hand, the investigation kicked into

437
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: high gear.

438
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 3: It was traced to Ford. Ford said they had built

439
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 3: it for Right Rental company. Writer Rental said that was

440
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 3: one of their trucks and it belonged to a place

441
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 3: called Elliott's Body Shop in Junction City, Kansas.

442
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 4: So we sent folks to Junction City.

443
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 1: At the body shop, the owner gave them more than

444
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: they'd expected.

445
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 3: Eldon Elliott said. A man called in said his name

446
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 3: was Robert Kling, and he wanted to run truck. Mister

447
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 3: Elliot said, well, you have to come in and give

448
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 3: a deposit. So a guy claiming to be Robert Kling

449
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 3: came in the next day paid cash in full for

450
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 3: a rental.

451
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: Now they needed to put up face to the name.

452
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 3: Back then, there were no digital cameras, so we sent

453
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 3: a sketch artist up and got a sketch of who.

454
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 4: We knew to be John Doe number one.

455
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 1: Soon came another lead.

456
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 3: Elliot recalled when this Robert Kling came to pick up

457
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 3: the truck, there was a second man in the shop.

458
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 3: We got a description of him, and that's where we

459
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 3: got the sketches of John Doe one, John Doe two

460
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 3: and the name of Kling, and things really.

461
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 4: Took off at that point.

462
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: Authority's next turn to the public for help.

463
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 8: There's the international wanted poster, the Faces of Terror. These

464
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 8: are the two men suspected of renting the truck that

465
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 8: was used in the bombing. There's a number to call

466
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 8: if you recognize them, and there's a two million dollar

467
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 8: reward if they're caught and convicted.

468
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: Their respond was immediate and overwhelming.

469
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 3: Both of those sketches resulted in over fifteen thousand individual

470
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 3: leads of people thinking they recognized them.

471
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 1: Most went nowhere, but among the tips came a name

472
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: that would soon be infamous.

473
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,479
Speaker 3: One call particularly came in from a security guard in

474
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 3: upstate New York. They said he recognized number one as

475
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 3: a man named Tim McVeagh that he had worked with

476
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 3: at Burned Security.

477
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: A second win Is also identified Timothy McVeigh as the

478
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: man in the John Doe sketch.

479
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 3: A lady at the Dreamland Motel she said, yep, I

480
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 3: recognize number one as well. He was driving an old

481
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 3: yellow car signed in under the name of Timothy mcveay.

482
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 3: He rented the room number twenty five and was there

483
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 3: by himself used an address in Decora, Michigan, and she

484
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 3: said I later saw him in a large yellow rider truck.

485
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: Within hours, the man believed to have rented the truck

486
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: that carried in the bomb had been identified. The dots

487
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: were being necked it fast and furiously.

488
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 3: So as it turns out, the Chinese takeout place had

489
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 3: delivered Moo Goo Guy pan to room number twenty five,

490
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 3: but it was delivered to a man named Robert Kling,

491
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 3: so we knew now that Kling and McVay were probably

492
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 3: the same person.

493
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 1: Then came another stroke of luck. On an otherwise dark,

494
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: dark day that.

495
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 3: Night, the night of April twenty, we did what's called

496
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,679
Speaker 3: an offline in cic search of computer search through an

497
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 3: FBI database to see if anybody in law enforcement had

498
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 3: had any contact with somebody named Timothy McVay, and we

499
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 3: discovered that a Oklahoma Highway Patrol trooper had stopped and

500
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 3: arrested a man named Tim McVay about ninety minutes after

501
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 3: the bombing, about ninety miles north of the city, and

502
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 3: he was sitting in jail in Perry, Oklahoma.

503
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 1: The response was swift.

504
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 3: We got a helicopter and flew up, put the helicopter

505
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 3: down on the highway. The car was still there, so

506
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 3: I seized that yellow mercury. When the rest of the

507
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 3: team took custody of McVay.

508
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: A case that could have stretched for months or even

509
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: years was coming together in less than forty eight hours,

510
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: and we.

511
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 3: Were looking for him by name the early morning of

512
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 3: the twenty first. You know, it took ten years to

513
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 3: find Ben Lauden. I think we would have found him eventually,

514
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 3: but the fact that he was sitting in jail ninety

515
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 3: miles from us was fortuitous.

516
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 1: Charges were prepared and filed.

517
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 5: Director Free and I have just spoken with the President

518
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 5: and I am pleased to announce that one of the

519
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 5: individuals believed to be responsible for Wednesday's terrible attack on

520
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 5: the murror of federal building in Oklahoma City has been arrested.

521
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 5: Timothy McVeigh, aged twenty seven, who we previously call John

522
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 5: Doe Number one, the man with the light brown crew cut,

523
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 5: was arrested by local authorities on a traffic violation about

524
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 5: sixty miles from Oklahoma City on Wednesday morning.

525
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: McVeigh didn't have a criminal record or known ties to

526
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: a extreamist groups. On paper, he wasn't an obvious aspect,

527
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: but soon the pieces started to click together.

528
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 3: As we dug a little deeper, we found that he

529
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 3: had actually been interviewed at Waco. He was handing out

530
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 3: anti government bumper stickers and such, which is obviously his

531
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 3: First Amendment right to do.

532
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: Not illegal, but it was telling His presence at Waco

533
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: placed him in the orbit of anti government sentiment that

534
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: could have potentially led to this horrific act. Investigators dug

535
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: deeper into McVeigh.

536
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 3: That Decker, Michigan address turned out to be a farmhouse

537
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 3: belonging to Terry Nichols and James Nichols. We executed a

538
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 3: search warrant up in Decker, talked to all the neighbors.

539
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 3: They said, yep, Terry Nichols is a good friend of

540
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 3: a man named Tim McVay. They're up here a lot.

541
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 3: We heard explosions on the farm. Simultaneously. The deep dive

542
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 3: into McVeigh showed he had been in the military, so

543
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 3: we looked at all of his army buddies, included Terry

544
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 3: Nichols and a man named Michael forty A.

545
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: Clues from the farm in mcveigh's passed tightened the focus

546
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: of the investigation.

547
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 3: At that point, Terry Nichols was a person of interest

548
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 3: and we had him under what we call overt surveillance.

549
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 3: We wanted him to know he was being watched.

550
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: The pressure worked.

551
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 3: He actually surrendered himself about three o'clock the same day

552
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 3: we arrested.

553
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 4: McVeigh. Had seen that coverage for.

554
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: A crime that shook the nation. The suspects hadn't gone

555
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: far and they hadn't been hard to find. With both

556
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: men in custody, the question became, where did they get

557
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: the materials that were able to level a building.

558
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 3: We executed a search warrant at Terry nichols home in Harrington, Kansas.

559
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: Dave was there when they swept through the house lo

560
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: and behold.

561
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 9: In Terry Nichols's master bedroom at his farm in Kansas,

562
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 9: in an ash tray is a receipt from mid co

563
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 9: Op where it says fifty pounds with X.

564
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: Number of dollars referring to fifty pound bags of fertilizer

565
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: going to co op.

566
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 9: They said, yeah, that's for two thousand pounds of ammonium

567
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 9: nitrate fertilizer, and it was like the Kinzu knife commercial.

568
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 9: The clerk there said, but wait, that's not all. I

569
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 9: have another receipt for another two thousand pounds, So.

570
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 3: That's four thousand pounds the estimated size of the bomb.

571
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 3: Of course that's only half the equation, but we also

572
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 3: need the fuel to make.

573
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: AFO, and that piece two didn't take long to uncover.

574
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 3: We found a prepaid calling card and you could almost

575
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 3: match the Yellow Pages to calls to chemical companies and

576
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 3: barrel companies. They had purchased nitromethane, which is racecar fuel,

577
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,239
Speaker 3: and Enus Texas. They posed as motorcycle racers, so they

578
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 3: had the fuel, They had the ammonium nitrate in about

579
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 3: the proportions we anticipated, but.

580
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: They still needed one more compan to complete the bomb

581
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: and folk.

582
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 3: It does not want to explode very readily. It needs

583
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 3: what's called a booster. So you can make a high

584
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 3: explosive booster, which is very dangerous, or you can steal it.

585
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 3: And if you are in the business of say mining

586
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 3: or run a quarry, if your explosives are lost or stolen,

587
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 3: you have to report those. I went through the stolen

588
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 3: explosive reports around Harrington, Kansas and found that Martin Marriyett,

589
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 3: a quarry, had reported a theft of about five hundred

590
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 3: pounds of high explosives the previous fall.

591
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 4: Local authorities said that.

592
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 3: The explosive magazine had originally had five padlocks on it,

593
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 3: and four the locks were taken during the theft, but

594
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 3: one had been dropped and that secured his evidence by

595
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 3: the local police. So we secured that lock and sent

596
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 3: it to our laboratory along with a drill and some

597
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 3: drill bits that we recovered at Terry Nichols home.

598
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: And forensics gave them the answer they were waiting for.

599
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 9: The tool mark examiner took that cruttle bit and was

600
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 9: able to make an impression and a piece of lead

601
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 9: and identify it as a positive match to the drill

602
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 9: bit that drilled that lock to the exclusion of all

603
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 9: other drill bits in the known universe at pretty damning evidence.

604
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:33,479
Speaker 1: It was a match. The investigation into Timothy McVeigh and

605
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 1: Terry Nichols uncovered a mountain of evidence at lightning speed,

606
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: and while law enforcement was building their case, rescue crews

607
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: worked around the clock, first to save the living, then

608
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: to recover the dead. The incredible devastation would be with

609
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: them for the rest of their lives. For Dave Williams,

610
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: there was one portion of the blast site that he

611
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: will never forget.

612
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 9: I walked into the MCA caddy corner from the Murrow building,

613
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 9: walked down a hallway and I could see blood spatter

614
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 9: from four feet down. It was a daycare center, and

615
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 9: I walked into that room, fifteen foot tall, glass windows,

616
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,439
Speaker 9: half inch thick fragments everywhere. In that room, I see

617
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 9: teddy bears with glass stuck in the chocolate melcaf open

618
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 9: cookies on the table. That comes back to me quite often.

619
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: Incredibly, every child who'd been in the YMCA survived, but

620
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: other children who'd been in the Murrow building did not.

621
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 1: Nineteen children were killed in the bombing, most of them

622
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: had been in its daycare center. The overall toll was staggering.

623
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: One hundred and sixty eight people died, among them federal workers,

624
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 1: military veterans, parents, grandparents, and the children. It remains the

625
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: deadliest act of domestic terrorism in American history. In the

626
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: days that followed, Oklahoma City began to grasp how much

627
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: they had lost. Families stood vigil at hospitals while other

628
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: people grieved. For survivor Amy downs the terror of being

629
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: trapped beneath the rubble would actually pale in comparison to

630
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: the pain that came next.

631
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 6: The hardest was the grief losing all these people and

632
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 6: not understanding you know why I was still there.

633
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: As the days passed, the names of those that had

634
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: survived and died continued to grow. Many remained unaccounted for.

635
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,439
Speaker 1: Loved ones of the missing looked to Amy and other

636
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: survivors for answers.

637
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 6: The phone calls from the family members asking if I

638
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 6: remember what they were wearing that day at work because

639
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 6: they were trying to identify their bodies and find them.

640
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 6: There was a sea of them, but I do remember

641
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 6: one in particular was one of my friends that I

642
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 6: had been showing pictures of the house too that morning,

643
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 6: her family called asking if I remember what she had on,

644
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 6: and I could not remember what she had on, and

645
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 6: I had looked at her. I was talking to her

646
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 6: about my house, but I didn't pay attention to what

647
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 6: she had on. And that really was very hard.

648
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: Amy lost co workers and some of her closest friends.

649
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 6: My best friend at work, Sonya, in her bright yellow

650
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 6: suit you know, was killed. She had two year old

651
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 6: and three year old baby girls at home, and Robin,

652
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 6: who was seven months pregnant, sitting next to me, was killed.

653
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: As the shock and sorrow took over Oklahoma City, its

654
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 1: citizens found strength in each other.

655
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 6: There was kindness that was coming out. There was community surfacing.

656
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 6: I remember the day I found out they found me

657
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 6: his body. This was eight days after the bobbing. I

658
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 6: was crying. It was the middle of the day. I

659
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 6: looked out of the window of this hospital. On the

660
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 6: highway below. Every car was driving with their headlights on.

661
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:00,320
Speaker 1: It was such a.

662
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 6: Small expression, but also so powerful because of what was

663
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 6: going on behind the scenes. All the people that were

664
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 6: coming forward to help, to donate, putting the differences aside,

665
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 6: to come together to unite in the face of evil.

666
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 6: We called the Oaklahoma standard. It was pretty cool.

667
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: A mid the morning, Amy found a reason to keep moving.

668
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: The building may have collapsed, but the institutions inside it needed.

669
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 6: To go on the handful of us that did survive,

670
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 6: it was very important to us that this little credit

671
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 6: union continued. We felt like that if our low credit

672
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 6: union merged or went away, that it meant evil one.

673
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,399
Speaker 6: So we were determined that we were going to come

674
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 6: back strong.

675
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: But Amy and the small group that remained would have

676
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 1: to start from scratch. They had no building and barely

677
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: a functioning staff, but what they did have was a

678
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: mission and the drive. The support they received from their

679
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: commune unity was incredible.

680
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 6: We didn't have any employees because the handful that were

681
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 6: left were either hospitalized or traumatized. So another competitor credit

682
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 6: union called and asked what I needed help with, and

683
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 6: I said, I need the visa payments picked up. They

684
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 6: need to be posted, you know, And they just started

685
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 6: helping me. We opened up forty eight hours later in

686
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 6: a competitor's office with not even our employees, but with

687
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 6: other employees from other competitor credit unions. So the credit

688
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 6: union industry showed up for us in a big way.

689
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 1: In those early months work offered refuge from the grief.

690
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 6: Every day the office would be filled with people from

691
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 6: the building coming to the Credit Union just to see

692
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 6: other people. So it sort of became a meet up

693
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,439
Speaker 6: place to connect and get news of how people were doing,

694
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 6: and what hospitals people were in, and things like that.

695
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 6: We were working through our grief together as a.

696
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 1: Community, and the Credit Union they'd rebuilt, it flourished.

697
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 6: Not only do we survive it, we actually came back stronger.

698
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 6: We really did.

699
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: While survivors like Amy navigated their way towards some version

700
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:18,320
Speaker 1: of normal, federal prosecutors were already assembling the early outlines

701
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: of their case. Justice wouldn't bring back what was lost,

702
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 1: but it would speak for those who no longer could.

703
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: The arraignment occurred just two days after the bombing. McVeigh

704
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 1: wore an orange jumpsuit and showed no emotion. The charges

705
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: were read aloud malicious destruction of federal property by means

706
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 1: of an explosive, a capital offense. He pled not guilty.

707
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: The man accused of killing one hundred and sixty eight

708
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: people had been caught, but his motivation was still unclear.

709
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: To understand Timothy mcveigh's resentment and rage and why he

710
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: chose the Murrow building. You have to rewind.

711
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 9: Mcdagh left Desert Storm and decided that he wanted to

712
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 9: go special forces with the Army, and the Army said, listen,

713
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 9: you're a good soldier, but psychological profile suggests you wouldn't

714
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 9: be a good team player. So he took an honorable

715
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:21,760
Speaker 9: discharge and was not gamefully employed and blamed that snub

716
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 9: on the US government.

717
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: That grievance deepened as national headlines brought new fuel with

718
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,240
Speaker 1: events like Ruby Ridge.

719
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 3: There was a man, Randy Weaver, who had a warrant outstanding,

720
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 3: and there was a US Marshall's team there to affect

721
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 3: and arrest. There was a gunfight, It was decided that

722
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 3: the FBI should come in, so hostage rescue team was deployed,

723
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 3: and there was an errant shot by an HRT sniper

724
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 3: that inadvertently killed Randy Weaver's wife, which of course is horrible.

725
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 3: That was a major event for some people that lean

726
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 3: in certain directions.

727
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: Then there was Waco.

728
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 4: Waco was kind of the final straw for McVeigh.

729
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,919
Speaker 1: To McVeigh and others who shared his anti government perspective.

730
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: Ruby Ridge and Waco were proofed the federal government was

731
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 1: willing to kill its own citizens, and after each incident,

732
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: is belief that armed resistance was justified and necessary multiplied.

733
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 9: He blamed the FBI for the death of the children

734
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 9: in the Davidian compound, So he wants to target the

735
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 9: FBI office in Oklahoma City, but it was a standalone

736
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 9: building and it wasn't a good target. So since ATF

737
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 9: was involved with Waco, he looked for their building and

738
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 9: found that it was a much better target.

739
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 1: But that reasoning only accounted for a part of his planning.

740
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 3: When McVeigh was in the army, he became disenchanted with

741
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 3: the mission. There was a book called The Turner Diaries,

742
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 3: which is a work of fiction, but it starts with

743
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 3: a large vehicle born ied destroying FBI headquarters, killing a

744
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 3: bunch of people, and starting a revolution. That book meant

745
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 3: a lot to him. He would recommend it to friends.

746
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 1: The Turner Diaries was the same book that inspired the

747
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 1: orders Robert Matthews to act in the nineteen eighties, and

748
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: it now guided McVeigh down to the location, the timing,

749
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: and even the victims.

750
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 9: He knew the daycare center was there. He knew ATF

751
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 9: was directly above where he's going to park the truck,

752
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 9: and Dea was up there, and he said the kids

753
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,959
Speaker 9: were a bonus being that close to ATF. They weren't

754
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 9: collateral damage. It was intentional.

755
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: McVeigh believed this single act of mass murder would spark

756
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 1: something even larger.

757
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 3: The primary goal was to start a revolution, which failed.

758
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 3: I mean he destroyed the building, he killed one hundred

759
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 3: and sixty eight people, but he failed in what he

760
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 3: wanted to do, which is violent overthrow of our government.

761
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: Two years later, the trial against Timothy McVeigh would be

762
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: one of the most high profile domestic terrorism cases in

763
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 1: American history. The trial was moved from Oklahoma City to Denver, Colorado.

764
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 1: There was a concern that finding an impartial jury there

765
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: would be nearly impossible. After weeks of testimony, it took

766
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: jurors less than twenty four hours to reach their verdict.

767
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 1: Timothy McVeigh was found guilty on all accounts. Terry Nichols

768
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: was tried separately and also convicted. He was sentenced to

769
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 1: life in prison. Amy Downs wanted to avoid the trial

770
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 1: at all costs. The anxiety and the reminders that brought

771
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 1: with it were too much, but when she heard the

772
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 1: jury had reached a verdict, she couldn't stay away.

773
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 6: Even though I had said I didn't want anything to

774
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 6: do with the trial, something happened inside of me when

775
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 6: I heard the verdict came in and I ran ran

776
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 6: from my hotel to that court in downtown Denver so

777
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 6: that I could be in the courtroom. And I heard

778
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 6: that verdict and it was so powerful. I never could

779
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 6: have imagined that it would have been that powerful to

780
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 6: hear that guilty verdict, but it was. It was like

781
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 6: a collective audible sigh of relief, like somebody had let

782
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 6: air out of attire. Is the only way I had

783
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 6: describe it. And we went out of the side try

784
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 6: to avoid the media of the building, to the Catholic

785
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 6: church next door. That was like our safe room. Then

786
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,879
Speaker 6: the prosecution team did not take any interviews. They came

787
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 6: straight into this room and we're all just It's a

788
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 6: mixture of applause, laughter, crying, and the priests come in

789
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 6: with champagne on platters. I'll never forget it. It was

790
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 6: like a very difficult chapter had just been finished.

791
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 1: The jury recommended the death penalty. Timothy McVeigh was executed

792
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 1: by lethal injection in June of two th and one.

793
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: It marked the first federal execution in the United States

794
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: in nearly four decades. Even until the very end, McVeigh

795
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 1: showed no remorse. With the trial behind her, amy found

796
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: a new lease on life. It started with a blank

797
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: sheet of paper.

798
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 6: I wrote down, I want to go back to school.

799
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 6: It really bothered me that I had not gotten that degree.

800
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 6: So my first step was find a college that will

801
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,399
Speaker 6: take my zero point five zero grade point average. So

802
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 6: I had to find a college and take a bunch

803
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 6: of basket weaving classes to get my grade point average

804
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 6: up so that I could go to a reputable college

805
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 6: so that I could continue my education. Eventually got my

806
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 6: degree in organizational leadership and eventually got my master's.

807
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,320
Speaker 1: But the place where it all began, her Credit Union,

808
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 1: was still at the center of her life. The question

809
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: now wasn't just whether she could rise within it, it

810
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: was whether she could lead it.

811
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 6: When my CEO was getting ready to retire, the board

812
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 6: of directors had been thinking about hiring somebody from the

813
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 6: outside because I'd never been a CEO, and they also

814
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 6: remembered me as that twenty one year old teller who

815
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 6: couldn't balance a cash stower. So I'm trying to prove

816
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 6: to them that I'm now a grown woman who has

817
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 6: the education, who has everything, and I can do it.

818
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 6: Never forget the day they called me into the boardroom

819
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 6: and they said, we've made a decision. We are not

820
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 6: going to go externally. You've been selected to become the

821
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 6: next CEO. And so, with my current CEO's support in

822
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 6: all of her mentorship, she left and then I stepped

823
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 6: into the role.

824
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,760
Speaker 1: That is an amazing accomplishment to me, Like I'm smiling

825
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 1: ear to ear just for that, and I'm not negating

826
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 1: all the things out led you there, but that's just amazing.

827
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 6: And especially because I still don't do math very well,

828
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 6: I still like math.

829
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 1: We have more in common than I thought. Amy had

830
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: reached the top of the ladder. In the years that followed,

831
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: she decided to share her story.

832
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 6: I wrote a book called Hope is a Verb, My

833
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 6: Journey of Impossible Transformation. And the reason that I wrote

834
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 6: it was because I remember thinking, maybe this is sort

835
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 6: of that way that I can help someone and it

836
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 6: will encourage them to know that they're going to get

837
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 6: through their situation, and not only get through it, but

838
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 6: it's possible to get through it and actually have a

839
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 6: life that they love again. One day. You may not

840
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 6: have the situation in my mind that's in the news

841
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,720
Speaker 6: and is dramatic, but all of us at some point

842
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 6: face something that we feel victimized by and we have

843
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 6: to figure out how to move forward.

844
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,720
Speaker 1: Amy hopes to help others find their own in her strength.

845
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 6: There is a Greek philosopher named ethic Titus. Epic Titius

846
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 6: is given credit for the quote, it's not so much

847
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 6: what happens to you, but how you choose to respond

848
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 6: to it that matters. And that is true because we

849
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 6: are all going to have things happen in our life

850
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 6: that are out of our control, that are bad. But

851
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 6: you always have control of a response. Even in the

852
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 6: moments where I was buried alive, I couldn't move, I

853
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 6: couldn't do anything. I had my mind, I could think,

854
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 6: I could get my mind on something different. I could

855
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 6: control that.

856
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 2: Next time. On Law and Order Criminal Justice System.

857
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 1: Government officials say they have uncovered a terror plot to

858
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 1: attack New York City's John F.

859
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 4: Kennedy International Airport.

860
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 7: When Russell Lfritez talked about the plot, he just had

861
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 7: this passion in his voice that gave you chills that

862
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 7: he really wanted to do something.

863
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 6: He just had this hatred on the edge of JFK.

864
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 6: There's tanks and tanks of aviation fuel.

865
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 3: A primary motivation was there was a conflict going on

866
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 3: between the United States and the Musslim world and.

867
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 4: There would be something that was bigger than nine to eleven.

868
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 2: Law and Order Criminal Justice System is a production of

869
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 2: Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts. Our host is Anna Sega Nicolaze.

870
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 2: The show was written by Cooper Mall, executive produced by

871
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 2: Dick Wolf, Elliot Wolf and Stephen Michael at Wolf Entertainment

872
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 2: on behalf of iHeart Podcasts. Executive producers Trevor Young and

873
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 2: Matt Frederick, with supervising producer Chandler Mays and producer Jesse Funk.

874
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 2: This season is executive produced by Anna Sega Nicolazi. Our

875
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 2: researchers are Luke Stantz and Carolyn Tolmidge. Editing and sound

876
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 2: designed by Trevor Young and Jesse Funk. Original music by

877
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:02,720
Speaker 2: John O'Hara, Original theme by Mike Post with additional music

878
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,800
Speaker 2: by Steve Moore and additional voice over by me Steve

879
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 2: Zernkelton Special. Thanks to Fox five in New York for

880
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 2: providing archival material for the show. For more podcasts from

881
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 2: My Heart in Wolf Entertainment, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

882
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your favorite shows. Thanks for listening.