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Speaker 1: This is a production of Journalista Podcast LLC and iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: See this cute little vial here.

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Speaker 2: That's crack rock cocaine, the most addictive form. You think

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Speaker 2: it's the glamour drug of the eighties. Well that's the

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Speaker 2: point of this front and little reminder. It can kill you.

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Speaker 2: And if you've got to die for something this sure

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Speaker 2: as hell ain't it.

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Speaker 3: Say no to drugs and say yes to life.

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Speaker 2: What would I do if someone offered me these drugs?

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Speaker 2: I tell them to take.

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Speaker 1: A hike, punk, Welcome to the Journalista Podcast. When we

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Speaker 1: first met Cookie, she had just picked up a pound

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Speaker 1: of wheat and stood in front of a firing squad.

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Speaker 1: She survived. Her Missus Scarface Era got her job at

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Speaker 1: CBS because she partied and the party never stopped. In

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Speaker 1: this episode, it might just kill her. I want to

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Speaker 1: warn you some of the things you'll hear in this

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Speaker 1: story might be hard to listen to. I know it

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Speaker 1: was for me. Well before we get to that, did

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Speaker 1: you ever think to yourself? For my next vacation, I

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Speaker 1: want to go see a bloody civil war in Nicaragua.

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Speaker 1: They called it revolution tourism.

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Speaker 3: Any dignitary, any famous person throughout the whole war years,

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Speaker 3: anyone that came to town, whether it's to make a movie,

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Speaker 3: to check out the revolution, just to be a tourist,

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Speaker 3: because it was a tourist destination during the war, because

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Speaker 3: the war never made it to the capitol, it never

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Speaker 3: went into Monagua.

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Speaker 1: Well, since you're talking about that, let's just go with

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Speaker 1: that for a minute and talk about some of the

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Speaker 1: crazy people that you got to meet up on that floor,

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Speaker 1: from presidents.

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Speaker 3: To prime ministers, people in Reagan's cabinet, rock stars, movie stars, actors, writers, directors.

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Speaker 3: We had Jackson Brown staying there with Daryl Hannah.

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Speaker 1: Cookie just got me and my wife third row seats

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Speaker 1: to his concert in New Orleans. Great time until my

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Speaker 1: car got booted.

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Speaker 3: Richard Gear came through, Peter Gabriel came through. President Jimmy

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Speaker 3: Carter and Ms. Rosalind stayed on that floor with the

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Speaker 3: Secret Service. Jesse Jackson came, Chris Christoffers and different actors.

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Speaker 3: We had ed Harris Marley, Mattlin. The funny thing is

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Speaker 3: that everyone was there doing something, but at nighttime, everybody

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Speaker 3: also heard that the place to be was at that

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Speaker 3: CBS office on the seventh floor. At the end of

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Speaker 3: the hall, and so people would just show up. We

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Speaker 3: had US newspapers Miami Harold, Washington Post, New York Times.

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Speaker 3: We had direct dial telephones to the US, all the

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Speaker 3: things that the rest of the country and the rest

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Speaker 3: of the people did not have access to. We had

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Speaker 3: the famous new fax machine. We had balconies where people

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Speaker 3: would come and lay out sunbathe in the middle of

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Speaker 3: the war. So it was a very eclectic crowd during

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Speaker 3: the day would mostly be journalists coming in and out.

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Speaker 1: With CBS unique in that way. At NBCA, they didn't

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Speaker 1: have that kindry.

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Speaker 3: NBC had their offices in the same hotel, a floor

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Speaker 3: above us, but they weren't the cool people. At six

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Speaker 3: the office is closed. Even the NBC people came down

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Speaker 3: to hang out at the CBS office. I think it's

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Speaker 3: because I was running it.

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Speaker 1: I bet you had a nice bar and.

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Speaker 3: I had a setup bar. I had something new that

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Speaker 3: had just come out. Well, we started the war with

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Speaker 3: Walkman's and then CD players came out with little bitty

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Speaker 3: speakers and that little setup could cost five six hundred dollars.

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Speaker 3: I was the first one to bring it to the

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Speaker 3: country with all the latest music. Oh, we even had

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Speaker 3: cable TV. I don't know how they rigged that up,

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Speaker 3: but we had that. It was just the place to

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Speaker 3: be come six o'clock, you know, everybody would come down

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Speaker 3: for cocktails or come up for cocktails.

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Speaker 1: Did you go out at night with some of these

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Speaker 1: people or go to bars and clubs?

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Speaker 3: There were bars, there were clubs, there were discos at

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Speaker 3: the time. Sure we went out.

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Speaker 1: Well, what was the craziest experience you had with somebody

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Speaker 1: who'd come to visit?

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Speaker 3: It's so many of them. One night were out there

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Speaker 3: by the pool and U two was there. They were

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Speaker 3: on a fact finding mission. A lot of people would

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Speaker 3: come just fact finding missions. They wanted to see what

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Speaker 3: the revolution was all about. That's how I wanted them there.

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Speaker 3: I was just graduated from Loyola and I wanted to

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Speaker 3: see what the revolution was about. It was a common occurrence,

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Speaker 3: just like congressmen and senators would come to their fact

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Speaker 3: finding missions. And so you two was there, and I

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Speaker 3: sent the tables some drinks, and then they asked me

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Speaker 3: over and we started to talk, and even though it

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Speaker 3: was nighttime, they wanted to pick a tour of the city.

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Speaker 3: We went around with my driver in Nicaragui's points of direction,

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Speaker 3: up meant towards the airport, down meant towards the cemetery,

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Speaker 3: east west, north south, and then points of direction where

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Speaker 3: the coffee house used to be, ten blocks north, three

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Speaker 3: blocks south. I still don't understand it to this day.

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Speaker 3: I kept telling that the streets had no names. Bono

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Speaker 3: just really couldn't understand it. How do you not have

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Speaker 3: names on the streets? And I said, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: It's called pod points of direction. He just got the

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Speaker 3: biggest kick out of it. Many months later, you know

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Speaker 3: that song came out streets with no name. I don't

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Speaker 3: know if there's any connection, but I just thought it

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Speaker 3: was funny because he was really just thrown for a

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Speaker 3: loop that how could you have a whole city with

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Speaker 3: no street names?

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Speaker 1: The debate still rages about that song and what city

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Speaker 1: you two was referring to, not much doubt. In Monagua,

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Speaker 1: Time magazine weighed in with the story titled Postcard from Monagua,

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Speaker 1: How far are you from the place Bono sang about.

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Speaker 4: A year after Irish rocker Bono visited Nicaragua in nineteen

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Speaker 4: eighty six in an effort to raise awareness about Central

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Speaker 4: American war refugees. You too, released its smash hit album

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Speaker 4: The Joshua Tree, and Nicaraguans immediately recognized that one of

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Speaker 4: the songs was written about their country. Twenty years later,

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Speaker 4: most people here still hold his fact that Where the

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Speaker 4: Streets Have No Name was written about Monagua, a squat

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Speaker 4: and sprawling capital city where well the streets are unnamed.

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Speaker 4: Stephen Kinzer, a former New York Times bureau chief based

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Speaker 4: in Monagua in the nineteen eighties, accurately describes the fine

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Speaker 4: art of giving directions in Monagua as a Socratic technique

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Speaker 4: based on first determining what the direction asker knows, then

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Speaker 4: working backward from there. The funniest part about giving directions

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Speaker 4: in this corner of the world is that some streets

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Speaker 4: actually do have names, but no one knows what they are.

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Speaker 1: In a press release, ad agency McCain Nicaragua said, this

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Speaker 1: unique and unreal aspect of Monagua's life caught the attention

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Speaker 1: of an inspired Bono, the lead singer of global supergroup

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Speaker 1: U two, to compose the hit song Where the Streets

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Speaker 1: Have No Name, after visiting Managua in nineteen eighty six.

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Speaker 1: The campaign is focused on adding street signs to Monagua streets,

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Speaker 1: identifying these locations on Google Maps by tagging them with

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Speaker 1: historical information. You told me about a one particular friend

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Speaker 1: that has become famous in the news in the last

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Speaker 1: few years, Randy Cretico. For people who are listening to this,

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Speaker 1: Randy Cretico is now known for being the go between

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Speaker 1: between Roger Stone and Julian Massage correct and getting Hillary's

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Speaker 1: emails and that.

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Speaker 5: Sort of thing in the Russia investigation. At this hour,

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Speaker 5: new details about the relationship between a long time Trump

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Speaker 5: associate and Wiki leaks. We now know the name of

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Speaker 5: the person who was the go between for Roger Stone

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Speaker 5: and Julian Assange money. Roger was out front on Capitol

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Speaker 5: Hill and Mono, you're breaking the story. What more are

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Speaker 5: you learning at this hour?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that's right. Roger Stone revealed to the House Intelligence

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Speaker 6: Committee the name of this intermediary, a person who had

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Speaker 6: contacts with Julian Assane during the campaign season and who

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Speaker 6: also had a conversation with Roger Stone himself, and the

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Speaker 6: name of the individuals. Randy Kredeco now Randy Credeco is

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Speaker 6: a New York radio personality who did have conversations with

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Speaker 6: both Stone and as Songe during the campaign season. In fact,

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Speaker 6: they were guests on both of his shows.

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Speaker 1: He was a comedian, and we don't know him that way,

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Speaker 1: although when you did a lot of his appearances, you know,

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Speaker 1: on the news interviews.

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Speaker 3: He tried to make jokes. Yeah, and he was almost

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Speaker 3: on the cusp of becoming successful, but he chose to

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Speaker 3: be a political comedian and his politics were always way left.

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Speaker 3: And he was thrown off to Johnny Carson Show for

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Speaker 3: telling a joke that they told them not to tell.

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Speaker 3: And the way we met, he was hanging out at

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Speaker 3: the Intercontinental Hotel because he always liked to be in

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Speaker 3: the middle of things, and he saw me walking through

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Speaker 3: it wearing a little hat and a pretty floral cotton dress,

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Speaker 3: and under his breath he says, where does she think

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Speaker 3: she is on the east side? And I looked at

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Speaker 3: him and I said, no, I'm in Monagua. You're on

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Speaker 3: my turf. Where are you from. That's how the friendship began,

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Speaker 3: and for the next twelve to fifteen years, every time

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Speaker 3: he'd come to Nicaragua, he would stay in my quarters

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Speaker 3: or the office, he'd hang out, and he became just

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Speaker 3: a fixture among all the journalists, some of them liked him,

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Speaker 3: some of them hated him, depending on your politics. He

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Speaker 3: loved to just hang out and be a part of everything.

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Speaker 3: He was the comedic relief during those war years. He

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Speaker 3: could make you laugh no matter what.

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Speaker 1: He casually count.

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Speaker 7: You had three hundred thousand Iraqis killed.

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Speaker 1: By the Allies and you had one hundred and forty.

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Speaker 8: Eight Allies killed by the Allies, and.

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Speaker 6: Bush is still working on the guy's name sat Tam Hassen,

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Speaker 6: Satan Hassen, Sandino Hasidic.

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Speaker 1: We are not at war with that people of Iraq.

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Speaker 1: We are at war with the Iraqi papal.

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Speaker 3: He could do Impressions, he could do Reagan, he could

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Speaker 3: do Ortega, he could do anybody.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it ironic though, that he's sort of defined himself

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Speaker 1: with the far left politics and comedy and ends up

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Speaker 1: being a tool for the right at this time of

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Speaker 1: his life.

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Speaker 3: Because he had no idea that that's what was going on.

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Speaker 3: I told him from the beginning, I said, you're going

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Speaker 3: to get in trouble if you're dealing with Roger Stone

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Speaker 3: Julian Assange. Oh no, you don't know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 3: And here we are. Man, He's still struggling because of

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Speaker 3: all of that.

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Speaker 1: It's important to note that before all this bullshit with

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Speaker 1: Roger Stone at Wiki Leaks, Randy Kretico had dedicated his

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Speaker 1: life to helping the poor, expanding public house fighting, mass incarceration,

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Speaker 1: criminal justice reform, and so many things that matter to

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Speaker 1: everyday Americans, and I want to honor that. You know,

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Speaker 1: one time I was sitting in a Chili's in Abbeyville, Louisiana,

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Speaker 1: with the wife and kids, getting ready to order some burgers.

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Speaker 1: In walked four guys dressed like commandos, carrying AR fifteen's,

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Speaker 1: you know the types. For some reason, it reminds me

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Speaker 1: of this story, another kind of tourism.

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Speaker 3: It's a crazy story. So all these years, everybody's covering war.

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Speaker 3: Everybody wants the big story, and we all knew what

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Speaker 3: the big story was. It was just proving it. And

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Speaker 3: the big story was us involvement in trying to overthrow

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Speaker 3: a government. We all knew it, and everyone knew what

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Speaker 3: was going on. You can't prove it, you can't take

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Speaker 3: film of it, you can't take video, you can't take pictures.

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Speaker 3: One day we're summoned, the journalists are summoned by State security,

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Speaker 3: a US mercenary working for the CIA has been caught

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Speaker 3: trying to overthrow the Nicaraguan government. We knew it was

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Speaker 3: going to be a dog and pony show. You know

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Speaker 3: they're going to make a big deal about it.

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Speaker 1: At that moment, you don't know what it's about.

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Speaker 3: We don't know what it's about. It could be something big.

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Speaker 3: But remember we would be called to press conferences all

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Speaker 3: the time. You never knew what the story was going

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Speaker 3: to be. So when we get there, you've got this

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Speaker 3: obviously American guy looking very scared and very distraught, sitting

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Speaker 3: next to heads of State Security the Secret Police.

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Speaker 1: Sam Hall was a silver medallist in the nineteen sixty

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Speaker 1: Olympics in Rome and a former member of the Ohio

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Speaker 1: House of Representatives, which makes the story even crazier.

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Speaker 3: The State Security guy makes a statement and his name

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Speaker 3: was Lenine Serno. He proceeds to tell us how this

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Speaker 3: is an American that's been caught near the border try

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Speaker 3: to infiltrate and do some terrorist acts on Nicaraguan soil

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Speaker 3: at the behest of the US government. So everybody's thinking,

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Speaker 3: oh wow, this is this is big. So Lenin Serena

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Speaker 3: tells the guy to give some background on himself. Well,

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Speaker 3: right away, I'm like, who's told by their captors? Can

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Speaker 3: you give background on yourself? Obviously he had been questioned

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Speaker 3: and interrogated by them. So the guy starts to tell

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Speaker 3: us how he has worked covertly for the CIA and

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Speaker 3: for different places in the world.

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Speaker 1: The Washington Post reported on Hall's arrest.

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Speaker 4: Sam Hall, an American, claimed he was on a spy

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Speaker 4: mission after he was arrested last month in a restricted

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Speaker 4: military area near Managua. Nicaraguan officials said after Hall's arrest

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Speaker 4: near the punte Je Airbase, thirteen miles northeast of Managua,

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Speaker 4: that he had maps of the installation in his shoe.

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Speaker 4: Hall said at a news conference in Mina that he

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Speaker 4: was spying on military installations on behalf of three men

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Speaker 4: code named Tinker, Evers and Chance. He also claimed in

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Speaker 4: a CBS News interview that he was the only remaining

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Speaker 4: member of the Phoenix Battalion, which he described as a

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Speaker 4: counter terrorist paramilitary organization.

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Speaker 3: And he says that he went to the Sixth Day

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Speaker 3: War in Israel, but he got there on the seventh day. Well,

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Speaker 3: everybody starts either laughing or they can't believe what they're

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Speaker 3: hearing or they're not understanding what they're hearing. And he

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Speaker 3: says he had been an Olympic swimmer, and I mean,

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Speaker 3: the story just kept going in all kinds of different directions.

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Speaker 3: But he had been caught with a map in his

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Speaker 3: shoe and he said he was just using it for

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Speaker 3: his arches. I mean, this guy was just coming across

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Speaker 3: as a bona fide kook. This is not going the

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Speaker 3: way the Sandinista government thinks it's going to go. This

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Speaker 3: guy has no connection to the CIA. This guy is

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Speaker 3: not working for the US government. This is some kind

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Speaker 3: of lone kook out there on a great adventure.

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Speaker 7: You ended up in Nicaragua, inside Sandinista army base, arrested, captured,

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Speaker 7: whatever stopped held. Got to put it real bluntly, they

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Speaker 7: said you were crazy. Anybody in this business has to

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Speaker 7: be a little bit crazy. The reason they were saying

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Speaker 7: that I was never allowed to say. I had to

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Speaker 7: sign a disavowl agreement in nineteen eighty four, the CIA says,

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Speaker 7: and I've talked to them, says you weren't reporting to them.

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Speaker 7: But of course that's on the surface, but.

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Speaker 3: That's part of the disabown.

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Speaker 7: I knew I would be disabout I didn't care.

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Speaker 3: I'm looking at the head of the secret Police and

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Speaker 3: I'm looking at him and I'm just shaking my head

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Speaker 3: and kind of making a motion across my neck saying cut.

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Speaker 3: This is not going the way you guys think it's going.

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Speaker 3: All of a sudden, the head of the secret Police

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Speaker 3: stands up says, that's the end of this press conference,

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Speaker 3: no more questions, no more anything. They quickly took this

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Speaker 3: guy away.

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Speaker 1: So you're basically signaling to the head of the secret

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Speaker 1: police that this is fucking nuts.

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Speaker 3: This is nuts. This is not a story you want

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Speaker 3: out there.

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Speaker 1: And he's looking at you, going oops.

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Speaker 3: He's looking at me the whole time for guidance, because

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Speaker 3: I don't think he spoke good English, and so when

291
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Speaker 3: I make the motion cut, he knew cut. He didn't

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Speaker 3: know why, but he knew cut. And then of course

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Speaker 3: he found out that this guy was a kook.

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Speaker 1: But Mario called him a wanna be spy.

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Speaker 3: That's what he was, A wanna be spy, A wanna

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Speaker 3: be mercenary. I wanna be That was it.

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Speaker 1: That was kind of a thing too in Nicaragua, wasn't it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just like the people would want to fly there

299
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Speaker 3: to check out the revolution, you know, famous people and politicians.

300
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Speaker 3: He also had nutcases trying to be a part of

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Speaker 3: the story, just like you had people that playing like

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Speaker 3: they were journalists. It was sort of a free for all.

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Speaker 1: It kind of reminds me of like right now or'

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Speaker 1: is these guys that their flack jackets on and play

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Speaker 1: like they're like military and they're walking around and.

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Speaker 3: Starbucks with the AR fifteen and yeah.

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Speaker 1: Except it's in Nicaragua and that really is a war

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Speaker 1: going on. Yeah, how did it play out? Do you remember?

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Speaker 3: I think that they just let him go.

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Speaker 1: That's hilarious to me.

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Speaker 3: It was just an insane story.

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Speaker 1: You know. The weird thing about this particular story. It's

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Speaker 1: a very small little footnote and a very bigger story.

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Speaker 1: But the head of the secret police is taking a

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Speaker 1: cue from you.

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Speaker 3: I thought that was funny too. I sort of felt

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Speaker 3: like you had to help him. I need to help

318
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,920
Speaker 3: this guy. He's drowning here, and he doesn't even realize

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Speaker 3: that he's drowning.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if Sam Hall was full of shit

321
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Speaker 1: or what the fuck he was doing in Nicaragua, but

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Speaker 1: he was a self proclaimed patriot and freedom fighter. Sound

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Speaker 1: familiar coming up. Cookie gets arrested, and that's the easy part.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Welcome back. Cookie's been living the

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Speaker 1: highlight for a long time, always managing to stay a

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Speaker 1: couple of steps ahead of the law. Her luck is

327
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,399
Speaker 1: about to run out. Obviously, you were always out in

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Speaker 1: the world. You always had your party favors with you.

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Speaker 3: Correct. But usually when I did stories, when I was

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Speaker 3: in the field, I wasn't partying. Well. On this one trip,

331
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Speaker 3: I forget what crew I was with. I do remember

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Speaker 3: what producer had been flown in. John Seiseloff was his name.

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Speaker 1: You might remember him from episode four when he had

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Speaker 1: to file a bullshit story about cookies helicopter crash under

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Speaker 1: pressure from the Sandinistas.

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Speaker 3: We're in the middle of nowhere, in the mountains.

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00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,760
Speaker 1: Somewhere covering what, just.

338
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,879
Speaker 3: Looking for a story. It wasn't all the time a

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00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,040
Speaker 3: big story or a breaking news story. The day to

340
00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:10,520
Speaker 3: day was usually just covering your ass, looking for something,

341
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:15,080
Speaker 3: possibly stumbling into something. I don't know where. We were,

342
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 3: probably some shithole. And now remember I had a little

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Speaker 3: weed in one of those plastic film cases. We've been smoking.

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Speaker 3: You know, the crew, myself, not the producer, he was

345
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:31,640
Speaker 3: a really straight laced kind of guy. A soldier apparently

346
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,960
Speaker 3: smelled the weed, whether it was on myself or the

347
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:40,920
Speaker 3: crew or somebody, and they decided she's got drugs on her,

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Speaker 3: which I did. It was just a little weed. So

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Speaker 3: when we get back to the barracks, he rats me out.

350
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Speaker 3: All of a sudden, I'm confronted by the head of

351
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Speaker 3: the battalion or whatever it was, and he says, we

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00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:58,840
Speaker 3: know you have marijuana. Your crew was seen smoking it.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna take you in.

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Speaker 1: Probably should remind people that they are very strict drug

355
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Speaker 1: laws in Sandinista, Nicaragua.

356
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Speaker 3: Yeah, there are no drugs. I would have to import

357
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Speaker 3: drugs from the United States to Nicaragua. The next thing

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Speaker 3: I know, the commander and I guess what they call

359
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:20,200
Speaker 3: their MPs come grab me by both arms and they're

360
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:24,680
Speaker 3: gonna lead me away to I don't know, jail whatever

361
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Speaker 3: on the base. And I know at that moment, I've

362
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,240
Speaker 3: got this plastic film case on me and I got

363
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,560
Speaker 3: to get rid of it between right now and wherever

364
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Speaker 3: it is they're taking me. Now, remember we're in the

365
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 3: middle of nowhere. This is all every man for himself. Oh,

366
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Speaker 3: I'm in charge. No, I'm in charge kind of thing.

367
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,720
Speaker 3: So as we're walking, I don't even know how far

368
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,159
Speaker 3: I've got to walk, but I know I got to

369
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,359
Speaker 3: act quickly. I play like a trip to get the

370
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,399
Speaker 3: film case out of my pocket. So now it's in

371
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Speaker 3: my hand and I'm being held by my arms, not

372
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Speaker 3: by my hand, and I've got fist clenched so that

373
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Speaker 3: it doesn't look suspicious. And so I know that I

374
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 3: have to fall again and get rid of this film

375
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Speaker 3: container and somehow get rid of it. I can't throw

376
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 3: it because they'll see it. I make myself fall again,

377
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,880
Speaker 3: and as I fall, I make sure that I take

378
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 3: that film case and just bury it in the mud,

379
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 3: because again we're in the jungles. There's no roads, there's

380
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 3: no highways, it's just dirt. And then I got up

381
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 3: and I'm acting like I hurt myself, and they're all

382
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,159
Speaker 3: trying to help me, the soldiers, so they take me

383
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 3: to the Comandante. I of course call the guy that

384
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 3: turned me in a liar. You know, he must hate Americans.

385
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,720
Speaker 3: When I'm with the commandante and he's searching me and everything,

386
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,120
Speaker 3: I said, listen, all you need to do is make

387
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 3: a call to the president. What president, President Ortega and

388
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 3: he'll vouch for me. And they're like, listen to this

389
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 3: one and saying, what call the president? I said he

390
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 3: would be who of you guys to get in touch

391
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 3: with someone that can get in touch with the president.

392
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 3: And they're like, yeah, right, I need you to contact

393
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 3: President Danielle or Tega. And I just kept saying it

394
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 3: over and over, and I remember one of them said,

395
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 3: she's still high. She's claiming she knows Danielle Ortega, the president,

396
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 3: our president. And I just kept saying it over and over,

397
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 3: and finally somebody must have said to themselves, there must

398
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 3: be something to this. Maybe there is, Maybe there is it,

399
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,200
Speaker 3: but it would behoove us to follow up on it.

400
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 3: And I saw a couple of guys leave where they

401
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,160
Speaker 3: were holding me, and I would say, about forty minutes later,

402
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,440
Speaker 3: comes walking in the producer and we're being escorted out

403
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 3: and set free. Guess what they did. They contacted President

404
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,360
Speaker 3: Danielle or Tega's people, and he told them to immediately,

405
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 3: if not sooner, let her out. You guys are in trouble,

406
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 3: in trouble for doing the right thing.

407
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 1: That was probably the only time in that guy's life

408
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 1: that he talked to those kind of people.

409
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, and then John seiselof and I thank him

410
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 3: till this day also rest in peace. You know. I

411
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 3: begged him, please don't turn me in to CBS because

412
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 3: I'll lose my job. He also knew that he could

413
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 3: lose his job because he allowed these shenanigans to go on.

414
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,880
Speaker 3: He never said anything, obviously, the crew never said anything

415
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 3: after that. They treated me with kid gloves.

416
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 1: The producer you're with, he obviously didn't smoke weed. He wasn't. No,

417
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 1: he wasn't the kind that you were partying.

418
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 3: No, he was a Quaker in fact, or a Mormon

419
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 3: or something like that.

420
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I just found my new sitcom idea

421
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:45,439
Speaker 1: Cookie and the Quaker.

422
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, but he didn't turn me in. And the reason

423
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 3: I think I could get away with all of these things,

424
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 3: especially with CBS people, is because I made them all

425
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 3: look good. The stories I got for them made them

426
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 3: look good. So why get rid or risk getting rid

427
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 3: of the one person that always comes through for them

428
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 3: and make them look good?

429
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: Yeah? What did Dan rather say?

430
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 3: My secret weapon in Central America?

431
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: That says it all. Really, nothing else can be said.

432
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was it?

433
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: Nice to know people.

434
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 3: It was very nice to know people, and to this

435
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 3: day I still know people there, and he's still the president.

436
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 1: Cookie talks her way out of another jam, but her

437
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 1: wild ways are getting noticed. The Sandinista government is watching her.

438
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 3: So one day I'm in my office. There's a knock

439
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 3: at the door and it's this guy. I've never seen

440
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 3: him before, and he's not dressed in a military uniform.

441
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 3: He's dressed as a civilian. And he says he needs

442
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 3: to speak to me about what. And he says, well,

443
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 3: can I come in? This is a very delicate situation.

444
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 3: I need to speak to you about. Sure, come on in.

445
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 3: And he proceeds to tell me that he works for

446
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 3: state security, that there's problems with drugs, and I freak out.

447
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 3: I said, I am not involved with drugs. I do

448
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 3: not party, I do not do drugs. Here, take my

449
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 3: blood sample now, you can have it tested. If he

450
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 3: had done that, it would have fit off the charts.

451
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 3: He says, no, no, no, you don't understand. I said,

452
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 3: I understand. You're accusing me of something. He goes, I

453
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 3: am not accusing you of anything. You need to calm

454
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 3: down and let me explain why I'm here. I said, okay.

455
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 3: He says. By the way, my nom de guere is

456
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 3: jughead in Spanish doroomlo, that's what you could call me.

457
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 3: And he says, this is the problem we are having

458
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 3: right now with you. We have rounded up about twenty

459
00:25:53,880 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 3: of these society kids, you know, for drugs, dealing while partying, whatever.

460
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 3: They became too obvious. So we've got about twenty of

461
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 3: these people in jail. Well, what does that have to

462
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 3: do with me? He says, Well, you know them? I said, well,

463
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 3: I know a lot of people. He says, yeah, But

464
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 3: they're all saying your name, that they hang out with you,

465
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 3: that they party with you. I said, I know a

466
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 3: lot of people. I grew up with a lot of

467
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 3: these people. They could say whatever they want to say.

468
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 3: Maybe they think it's going to get them out of trouble.

469
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 3: He says. I still think that you don't understand why

470
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 3: I'm here. The reason I am here is that we

471
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 3: as the government have no problem with you partying. And

472
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 3: I'm just like slowly going into shock here. Is this

473
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 3: some sort of ambush? Is this some sort of test?

474
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 3: He says, we know what you do. We don't have

475
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 3: a problem with it. In fact, if you need supplies.

476
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 3: We could furnish you with party favors whenever you need.

477
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 3: And I'm like, whoa, whoa, This does not sound right

478
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 3: to me. He says. The other part of the problem

479
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 3: is that besides these people saying your name, we can't

480
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 3: have that. We cannot have people in jails saying your

481
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 3: name and that they party with you. So what we're

482
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 3: asking you is a couple of things. To please be

483
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 3: more discreet. Stop partying with known people that could possibly

484
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 3: get in trouble with us. Just party quietly. Party with

485
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 3: your journalist friends, stop partying with the society kids. And

486
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 3: again he says, I reiterate, if you ever need anything

487
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 3: so you don't have to go out there publicly looking

488
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 3: for merchandise, contact me and I will supply you with

489
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 3: whatever you want. And I'm like, are you serious?

490
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 2: Is that?

491
00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 3: Are you basically telling me government sanction drug use and

492
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 3: you'll supply it. He says, that's exactly what I mean.

493
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 3: And I am your contact, and I will be around

494
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 3: keeping an eye on you from a distance, and you

495
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 3: could call me anytime, night or day for anything. And

496
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 3: we became very close friends. Within six months, he was

497
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 3: partying two We drew him over to the dark side.

498
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: So you corrupted him.

499
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 3: Absolutely. I tend to have that effect on people. I

500
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 3: corrupted him. He was my guy for years.

501
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: You said a lot of crazy things in this podcast.

502
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: That's insane, right, That's that's pretty far out there.

503
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 3: That is I mean. And I couldn't have asked for

504
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 3: anything better. Okay, Well, yeah, anything I wanted, weed, coke, anything.

505
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 3: I did know that they had wiped out drugs and

506
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 3: drug use in the country.

507
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: Well, it's kind of funny because you know you're in Nicaragua.

508
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: You think you'd be able to get a.

509
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 3: Great drugs nothing impossible.

510
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: How did you How did you I would have to fly.

511
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 3: To the US, buy by drugs, import them into Nicaragua.

512
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: I heard you had a couple of little clever ways

513
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: of getting them in.

514
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 3: Well, sure, if it wasn't myself literally flying to the

515
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 3: States and bringing them in myself, I would get other journalists.

516
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 3: They would bring their own and share. You know, I

517
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 3: would get family and friends in Miami to drop off

518
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 3: clothes and videos and dolls to the CBS office and

519
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 3: CBS unnoingly with ship stuff to me, not knowing that.

520
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: So you were you were sneaking cocaine in through clothes, dolls, tapes.

521
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 3: And when I say tapes, I don't mean the CBS tapes.

522
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 3: I'm talking about MTV, you know, stuff that I would

523
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 3: get people to tape for me.

524
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: Here's the thought. Do you think to Moss poor hey

525
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: he knew about that?

526
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 3: I would probably think he did.

527
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: Is it easier to smuggle coke out of the United

528
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: States than it is to smuggle it in?

529
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 3: Absolutely? Because I knew that nothing could happen to me. Nothing.

530
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 3: And then let's say I got caught. You think I

531
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 3: would have spent one moment in trouble. I had jugad.

532
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: She has jugaad. Why doesn't that sound comforting, Well, it

533
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: certainly sounds like Cookie has it all under control. Nope,

534
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: her life is about to change and she might just

535
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: lose everything she's fought for, including her life. We'll be

536
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: right back, welcome back. Cookie is about to meet one

537
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: of the great loves of her life. The question is

538
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: will she survive it? Buckle up. So I know you've

539
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: been married a few times. You've had many romantic adventures

540
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:07,719
Speaker 1: in your life.

541
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 3: I've found mister Wraich thirty three times.

542
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: But there was one guy in Nicaragua and Central America

543
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: that you spent a lot of time with that you

544
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: were very close to. Let's talk about John Basco. Tell

545
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: me about who he was, what he did, and how

546
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: you guys got together.

547
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 3: John worked as a cameraman for NBC. His specialty was war.

548
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 3: He was always being shipped to war zones and then

549
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 3: for a time he was constantly in Nicaragua and El

550
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 3: Salvador as well. You know, he had been told when

551
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 3: you get to Nicaragua, you have to go to the

552
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 3: CBS office. That's the chick that is going to be

553
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 3: your best connection, not just for business and the news,

554
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 3: but she's going to be your best connection for anything else.

555
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 3: She and her office are the place to be and

556
00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 3: to be seen. He came down and introduced himself one

557
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 3: day to the CBS office. I thought he was cute.

558
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 3: I'm going to say right now. He kind of couldn't

559
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 3: take his eyes off me. And I could tell she was.

560
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 8: Running the CBS office and so she was a hot Tamali.

561
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 8: You know what drew me to her was her great

562
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 8: physical beauty, really, and she was tall and slender, and

563
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 8: she was real pretty. She was crazy and wild and everything.

564
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 8: You know, she was smart, she had all the connections,

565
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 8: she had all the power. She was a lot of

566
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 8: fun to hang out with, So I mean, how could

567
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 8: you not be attracted to her?

568
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?

569
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 8: I think everybody was attracted to her.

570
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 3: We sort of started flirting back and forth, and no

571
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 3: matter what job or junket or peace that we would

572
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 3: all be working on, he'd always wind up every day

573
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 3: in my office end of business. We had a lot

574
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 3: of the same likes. We like to drink, we like

575
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 3: to party, we like to do drugs. So we hit

576
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 3: it off immediately. Even though he was a quiet, shy

577
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 3: kind of guy, but he had a presence and I

578
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 3: was the complete opposite. Not shy, not quiet, and I

579
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 3: had a big presence. He told me later that he

580
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 3: had been told stay away from her. She'll like the

581
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 3: songs that she'll eat you, chew you up and spit

582
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 3: you out.

583
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was your nickname?

584
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 3: Man eater? My crews always knew that if I set

585
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 3: my sights on someone, that was the end of them.

586
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 3: He had been told that he had been mourned, so

587
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 3: he kept his kind of cautious distance from me in

588
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 3: that aspect. But then it was inevitable. We got together.

589
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 3: It was fabulous. It was a world win relationship. We

590
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 3: simply adored each other in all aspects, not just because

591
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 3: we would help each other out in the news. I

592
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 3: always made and got stuff that we both needed to party.

593
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 3: It was just inevitable that we would get together.

594
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 8: And it was always a lot of fun to hear.

595
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 8: We were going to be as signed to go to

596
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 8: Monagua because Cookie would be there. So here you go, Great,

597
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,359
Speaker 8: we'll see Cookie. That's how it worked, not because she's

598
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 8: my friend and she's you know, my girlfriend, but besides that,

599
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 8: even other people, you're gonna go to Monogua, Great, we'll

600
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 8: see Cookie.

601
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 3: And I think he actually pushed for assignments in Monagua.

602
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 1: He said he didn't really like Nicaragua. Of all the

603
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: places he went to, he wanted to go there because

604
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 1: he knew he was gonna have so much fun.

605
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 3: I can't stress enough that it wasn't just about the partying.

606
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 3: It was the camaraderie that we all had.

607
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 8: In a war zone. You need to have love, you know,

608
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 8: you need to have friendship. It's very very important because

609
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 8: you don't have anything else. So the spiritual thing between

610
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 8: me and Cookie was like that. It was a desperate

611
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 8: spiritual connection to make it through what we were going through.

612
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 8: We were together for putting sab on the wounds. I

613
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 8: needed that and she provided it.

614
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 9: You know.

615
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 8: I think maybe I provided it to her too in

616
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 8: a way.

617
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 3: Maybe we said the word love, maybe we didn't, But

618
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 3: I always thought of him as that love interest in

619
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 3: my life there and it was different. And I think

620
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 3: he was also surprised because he was also a very

621
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 3: kind of slam bam, thank you ma'am kind of guy,

622
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 3: which is why surprisingly we didn't even jump into bed

623
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 3: together for months. You know, we'd sleep in the same bed.

624
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 3: It was almost as if we were going to do

625
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 3: things differently, which made it that much more exciting. I

626
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 3: looked at him as my soulmate. He also had that

627
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 3: feeling for me.

628
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 1: Things were heating up between them, but they're already starting

629
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: the spiral. They decided they needed to get away from Anagua.

630
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 3: We decided we were going to go on R and

631
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 3: R to Honduras. It's funny that we would think that

632
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 3: going to another war toward country would be R and R.

633
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 3: But yeah, we went to a beach called Roatan in Honduras.

634
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 3: John didn't even remember the end result of that trip.

635
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 3: He remembered something bad happened.

636
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: Do you remember the incident.

637
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,720
Speaker 3: That's well, we were just partying, and we were loud,

638
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 3: and we weren't your normal variety tourist partier.

639
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: Okay, here we go. This is where it starts to

640
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 1: get weird.

641
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 8: I thought it was going to be very funny if

642
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 8: Cookie got in the baby crip in our hotel room.

643
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 3: This is a little embarrassing. We would role play a lot.

644
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 3: I think the crib was supposed to be like a jail.

645
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 8: Can you imagine her squatting down a baby crib, looking

646
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 8: out of the bars like she's in prison or something.

647
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 8: I said, Cookie, you should get in that crib. This

648
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 8: is where you belong.

649
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 3: This tells you how high we were.

650
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 8: This is gonna be good for you. And she said, no, no, no,

651
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 8: I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. Come on, Cookie,

652
00:36:58,680 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 8: get in the crib.

653
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 3: I still didn't get it. You know why that would

654
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 3: be eternal.

655
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 1: He said, you wouldn't do it.

656
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, but eventually I did.

657
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 1: He said he was kind of yelling and acting crazy

658
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 1: to get you to do it.

659
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I eventually I did.

660
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 1: Early that's the night where a lot of complaints came in, a.

661
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 3: Lot of complaints came in and believe me, we had

662
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 3: the top of the line accommodations. We were throwing money

663
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 3: around like there was no tomorrow.

664
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 8: And then it ended up with you guys should leave

665
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 8: here and never come back.

666
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:30,959
Speaker 1: Were you being pretty boisterous in there?

667
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 8: I guess we were.

668
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 3: So we got escorted out of the country. He thought

669
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 3: that we had just been escorted out of the hotel.

670
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 3: I said, no, John, it was the hotel, the city,

671
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:41,760
Speaker 3: and the country.

672
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 8: You know, sometimes when you're really really been like partying

673
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 8: or doing war, I mean that goes along with it,

674
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 8: you just get kind of whacked out of your head.

675
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 8: You know, you don't really relate the way you should

676
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 8: in a normal world, you know what I mean. So

677
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 8: even on a big you don't act the way you

678
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 8: should act, and you don't realize that you're being so

679
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 8: weird or so strange, you know, But that's what it was.

680
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 8: It was like a big wake up calling, Wow, you're

681
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,720
Speaker 8: telling us to leave this island.

682
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 3: It took I think about a year or two before

683
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 3: we could go back to Honduras.

684
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: Funny story, but it was getting harder and harder for

685
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: Cookie to hide her demons, and it was becoming all

686
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: too public.

687
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,919
Speaker 3: In Nicaragua, there's this huge mansion on a hill. It's

688
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 3: called La Casona, the Big House. This was property that

689
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 3: Roosevelt least for one hundred years, so it was US

690
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 3: soil and it was part of the embassy in a

691
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 3: different location. So every Fourth of July or any kind

692
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 3: of American holiday, the US Embassy would throw big shin digs.

693
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 3: Local people, local journalists, international journalists, government dignitaries would all

694
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 3: be invited. There's one particular Fourth of July, big celebration,

695
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 3: always lots of great.

696
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 1: Food and fireworks and all.

697
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 3: That fireworks, hot dogs, anything you can imagine for you know,

698
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 3: a Fourth of July party. Well, myself and two NBC

699
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 3: crew members were there with me, cameraman John Basco and

700
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 3: sundman Juan Caldera, whose sister ran the NBC office in Nicaragua.

701
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 3: A stroke of midnight, the party's over. Well by that time,

702
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 3: I'm so paranoid. I can't move. I'm in full riga mortis.

703
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 3: I'm sitting on a sofa. I cannot move. I know

704
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,439
Speaker 3: that if I stepped foot off the US property, I'm

705
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 3: going to be arrested.

706
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 1: And why are you so paranoid?

707
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 3: Because I'm partying.

708
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: I'm doing cocaine, like massive quantities.

709
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 3: Obviously enough to make me not be able to get

710
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 3: up off the sofa. And here's John Basco and here's

711
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 3: Juan Caldera saying, Cookie, you know they're closing up. You

712
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 3: got to go. We've got to get you out of here.

713
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 3: It's starting to look weird. You know.

714
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 8: She goes to embassy party, she does a lot of coke,

715
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 8: gets too hot and freezes until you like calm down

716
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 8: a little bit and then you can like kind of

717
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 8: shuffle out of the room hopefully and nobody notices too much.

718
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: How long were you sitting there?

719
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 3: Hours? Hours? And then the party ended and I must

720
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,919
Speaker 3: have sat there another hour. And the Marines they need

721
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 3: to go, they need to empty out the place.

722
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 1: Is this one of those things where the lights are

723
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 1: going off and.

724
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 3: The lights are going off, you know? Last call was

725
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:41,240
Speaker 3: an hour ago. Oh I'm not feeling well. I can't move,

726
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 3: but my two friends finally got me off the sofa

727
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 3: and out.

728
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: Happy fourth of July.

729
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 3: Happy fourth of July.

730
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,879
Speaker 1: I asked Alejandro Belly, Cookie's close friend and CBS assistant,

731
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: if he was worried about her.

732
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 9: I was concerned especially when she was she was with Vascal,

733
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 9: I mean, Vasco was not very good news for her

734
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 9: because she was totally She loved that disaster. She loved

735
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 9: that chaos, and he was, you know.

736
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 3: Sexy for her.

737
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 9: She had all the danger written all around and she

738
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 9: loved that.

739
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,839
Speaker 1: Did it become to define your relationship too much? Were

740
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: you good for each other? Were you bad for each other?

741
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: Was it both both?

742
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 3: We were great for each other because we were so made,

743
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 3: we had so much in common. We kind of thrived

744
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 3: off of each other. The partying did get to be excessive.

745
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: Did you kind of go farther with him than you

746
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 1: probably were used to?

747
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 3: Yes, and farther with him than I had ever and

748
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 3: to this day never have repeated some of the things

749
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 3: that we did.

750
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 1: Was it scary?

751
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 3: Of course it was, I mean it was. It was great.

752
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 3: It was intense because our relationship was intense on every

753
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 3: fucking level. It wasn't the normal dating, It wasn't the

754
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 3: normal party. Every aspect of our relationship was the most

755
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,280
Speaker 3: intense that you could be in any relationship.

756
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: He told me he was worried about you at one point.

757
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 3: As any good attic, we each thought we had it

758
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 3: under control.

759
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 1: Well, that's why I ask if maybe you weren't always

760
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: good for each other.

761
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 3: Was it to the level of toxic? But it was

762
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 3: heading in that direction.

763
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 8: Look, I was crazy and I was doing this shit

764
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 8: I was doing, but I didn't have it that deep.

765
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 8: It seemed to me like Cookie had that element of

766
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 8: her personality was deep, so she would just die and

767
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 8: I could see that, and it scared me.

768
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: Cookies demons have finally caught up with her. Is the

769
00:42:50,440 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 1: party over? We'll be right back, Welcome back. Cookie's facing

770
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: the biggest challenge of her life. I know she's a badass,

771
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: but so is addiction.

772
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 3: So obviously I had problems with drugs. We all know

773
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:22,320
Speaker 3: this by now. As I've said before, war journalists they're

774
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 3: always partying. They work hard, they party harder because you

775
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 3: never know when you're going to die, when it's going

776
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 3: to be your last story, your last day on earth.

777
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 3: It's not like I was the only person. And that's

778
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:39,879
Speaker 3: not to detract from my failings. Everyone partied drinking drugs.

779
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 3: Not everybody did everything. I of course did everything. Some

780
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 3: of us could just stop and not continue all night.

781
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 3: Some of us couldn't. I was one of the ones

782
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 3: that they couldn't. I thought my problem was drugs. What

783
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 3: I didn't realize is that I was also an alcoholic.

784
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,760
Speaker 3: I had all the telltale signs, drinking a lot, drinking

785
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 3: in my room, drinking with the guys, and drinking them

786
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 3: under the table. CBS decided that something needed to be done.

787
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 3: It's funny because you met her in an earlier episode.

788
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 3: Carla Farrell, producer extraordinaire who hired me, was now being

789
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 3: sent to Nicaragua to confront me and tell me if

790
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 3: you don't go, you will be fired. And I was like,

791
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 3: go where. She says to rehab. You've got a problem. No,

792
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 3: I don't have a problem. You know, maybe I do

793
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 3: this or that every now and then. No, you've got

794
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 3: a problem. And we've got people that are concerned about you.

795
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 3: Because my colleagues were also my friends, and we all

796
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,240
Speaker 3: loved and cared for each other. So it wasn't someone

797
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 3: pointing a finger and out of jealousy, oh we need

798
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,399
Speaker 3: to get written out. It wasn't like that.

799
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: Were you fucking up a little bit?

800
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 3: Yeah? I knew that at any moment, this whole house

801
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 3: of car arts could come tumbling down. I mean, I

802
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 3: hadn't done any major fucked up that caused a big problem.

803
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 3: But I'm sure there were incidents that could have been disastrous,

804
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,800
Speaker 3: not just for myself but for others.

805
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: You think this was a long time coming.

806
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 3: In a way, it was probably coming before I was

807
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 3: at CBS. As you remember, I was married to Chino,

808
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 3: the cartel guy, and so that was a whole era.

809
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 3: I was partying even before that, you know, when I

810
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 3: was a model in New York City. My life has

811
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 3: been partying since I was fourteen. But what people don't

812
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 3: realize about addiction is that you first start out whatever

813
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 3: substance you're using, it's your friend, you love the way

814
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 3: it makes you feel, and then slowly it becomes your

815
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 3: enemy and you're always searching for that first high, which

816
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 3: you'll never get that one again.

817
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,720
Speaker 1: Do you think that part of the I'll say abuse

818
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 1: of alcohol and or drugs is related to the PTSD

819
00:45:58,600 --> 00:45:59,959
Speaker 1: consequences of being out there.

820
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:05,919
Speaker 3: Covering war is a very very hard motherfucking thing to do.

821
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,359
Speaker 3: It's one thing watching shit on TV. It's one thing

822
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,839
Speaker 3: living in its city like this where there's a lot

823
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 3: of crime, but it's another thing living in a war,

824
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 3: and it's day to day war, war, war, and everything

825
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 3: that comes with it. Assassinations, torture, you name it. Everything

826
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 3: bad that another human being could do to a human

827
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:33,879
Speaker 3: being is being done in that time. I'm sure PTSD

828
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 3: contributed to it. But I was doomed from the moment

829
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 3: I was born.

830
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 1: Were your parents' alcoholics?

831
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 3: My daddy loved to drink. My mother did socially accepted

832
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 3: prescriptions from doctors. You know valume. She had eight kids.

833
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 3: She took valume three times a day. So I was doomed.

834
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:54,439
Speaker 3: But we didn't know that back then.

835
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 1: Were you angry when she confronted you?

836
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 3: When I wasn't angry. I was defensive. Oh come on on, Carla,

837
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 3: you know me. You know how we all operate.

838
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 10: When I first knew Cookie, I sure knew she was

839
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:10,760
Speaker 10: a partier. I took part in some of those parties

840
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 10: at the time. I never thought it was a problem

841
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 10: in the beginning. As I recall later on, her level

842
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 10: of partying was was concerning.

843
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 3: Yes, the reason she was sent is because she wasn't

844
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 3: like that. She wasn't a big drinker, She never did drugs.

845
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 3: She was always level headed and she was always business.

846
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: Did you feel betrayed by somebody like often is the.

847
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 3: Case, No, because the way it was still to me,

848
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:38,399
Speaker 3: it was a lot of people had talked about it.

849
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 1: God it you just have to picture that. There was

850
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,280
Speaker 1: a discussion at the New York office.

851
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:45,240
Speaker 3: No, the discussion was in Miami.

852
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:46,760
Speaker 1: In Miami, Okay.

853
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 3: Miami cleared it with New York because they were going

854
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 3: to do something different. They were going to pay and

855
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 3: they were going to put me in rehab. It wasn't

856
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 3: going to be on my dime because obviously they felt

857
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 3: like you just said, oh, it's the war, it's the PTSD.

858
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,399
Speaker 3: They obviously didn't know my complete background. I mean by

859
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 3: that time, what I'd already been twenty years into the game.

860
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: It's almost like getting in trouble for your own superpower.

861
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I got defensive with Carla. She said, cookie,

862
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 3: don't fight it. If you don't do it, they're going.

863
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 10: To fire you.

864
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: Well, when you hear those words.

865
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 3: That's what did it.

866
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 1: You have your whole life wrapped up in this. You're

867
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 1: at the peak of your powers.

868
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 3: Too, exactly, And at this point people didn't really understand

869
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 3: everything about addiction like they do now, especially Carla. She

870
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 3: had no clue about addiction. So in her mind, it

871
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:45,280
Speaker 3: was due to me being alone in the war, raising kids,

872
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 3: just a lot of pressure. She says, Cookie, take the gift.

873
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:50,799
Speaker 3: They're going to pay for it. But where am I

874
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 3: going to go? Anywhere you want to go, she says,

875
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 3: I recommend Betty Ford, and I'm like, okay, that sounds good.

876
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:01,760
Speaker 3: So I proceeded to drink two bottles of wine, packed

877
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 3: my suitcase, and I was on a flight the next

878
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 3: morning with Carla. She didn't take me all the way,

879
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 3: but she took me to Miami and made sure that

880
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 3: in Miami I got on the flight to California. Because

881
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 3: addicts are always ah, let me get off here, I'll

882
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 3: go next week. They weren't going to take that chance,

883
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,839
Speaker 3: so she flew with me to Miami and made sure

884
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 3: I got on the flight to California. I owe my

885
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 3: life to Carla because she really cared for me. She

886
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 3: was really a good friend, and I recently thanked her

887
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,439
Speaker 3: for saving my life. I would not have had all

888
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 3: the life that I had after CBS in the war

889
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:41,359
Speaker 3: had it not been for her.

890
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: Before Cookie gets to the Betty Ford clinic, I want

891
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 1: to introduce you to a true American hero. On April

892
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 1: twenty second, nineteen seventy eight, The Washington Post wrote this

893
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: about the former first Lady. President Gerald Ford's wife.

894
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 4: Betty Ford, said yesterday she is addicted to alcohol as

895
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,399
Speaker 4: well as the medication that to her treatment at Long

896
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 4: Beach Naval Hospital. Missus Ford, the sixty year old wife

897
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 4: of former President Ford, was admitted to the California Hospitals

898
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 4: Alcohol and Drug Abuse Center twelve days ago. I have

899
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 4: found I am not only addicted to the medication I

900
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 4: have been taking from my arthritis, but also to alcohol,

901
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,240
Speaker 4: missus Ford said in a statement read at the hospital

902
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 4: by a family spokesman. Missus Ford's candor after her operation

903
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 4: for breast cancer in nineteen seventy four prompted thousands of

904
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 4: women to seek frequent checkups and examinations. Experts in the

905
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 4: field of drug abuse hailed her similar candor yesterday.

906
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,839
Speaker 1: What an amazing person. Can you imagine the courage it

907
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 1: took for her to stand up in front of the

908
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 1: American people and say those.

909
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,839
Speaker 3: Words, I'm Betty Ford and I'm an alcoholic.

910
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 10: Thank you.

911
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 1: A few years later, she founded the Betty Ford Center,

912
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: a nonprofit residential treatment center for people with substance dependents. Look,

913
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 1: I'm not saying she invented rehab, but Betty Ford coming

914
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: out in such a big way paved the roads for

915
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 1: millions of Americans to seek the help they so badly needed.

916
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 1: That's a freaking hero when you get there to the

917
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: Betty Bard.

918
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 3: Oh, it's a wonderful story. I'm dressed in a suit.

919
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 3: I look fabulous. I've got my briefcase with me. I

920
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 3: walk in at the reception desk. They think I'm the

921
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:24,439
Speaker 3: new doctor or counselor, and they said a name. We've

922
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 3: been expecting you, and I'm like, well, that's not my name.

923
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 3: Well wait, aren't you the new counselor doctor? And I'm like, no,

924
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 3: I'm the new patient. So they checked me in and

925
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 3: I remember the first night, we're sort of in a

926
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:41,359
Speaker 3: group in the wreck room or whatever you call it.

927
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 3: There's a TV on and it's the news, and it

928
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:50,280
Speaker 3: happened to be on CBS. And that day Fidel Castro

929
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 3: had flown into Nicaragua and he was holding a rally

930
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 3: with Ortega, which I had planned to cover for weeks.

931
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: The Washington Post this about Cashro's visit to Nicaragua.

932
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:07,720
Speaker 4: Sandinista leader Daniel Ortego was inaugurated as Nicaragua's president today,

933
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 4: in a ceremony marked by a surprise visit by Cuban

934
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 4: President Fidel Castro Ortego, reaffirmed the Sandinista's public commitment to

935
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 4: respect political pluralism and private property. He said the seven

936
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 4: month old dialogue with the United States represented a magnificent

937
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 4: opportunity to resolve the two countries' differences. In spite of

938
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 4: the situation, Nicaragua is not an enemy of the United States.

939
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 3: So as I'm watching it, I'm screaming kind I'm supposed

940
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 3: to be there. That's my story. I'm supposed to be there.

941
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 3: And a couple of patients turned to each other and said, man,

942
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,839
Speaker 3: is she still high? I want someone? Would she's still on?

943
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:48,359
Speaker 1: Did you enjoy it?

944
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 3: You know what I did? And I picked up the

945
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 3: tricks and what I'm supposed to say. And you know,

946
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 3: there's this thing that says you got to write your

947
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 3: first step and write everything a certain way, and I

948
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:04,360
Speaker 3: I knew exactly. So I was writing other patients first

949
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 3: step for them for money. It was profitable for me

950
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:08,439
Speaker 3: in there.

951
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 1: How about getting something out of it?

952
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,360
Speaker 3: I did obviously, I got sobriety. And it gets you

953
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 3: to the point where you don't want to leave. When

954
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 3: you first get there, you want to leave, you want out,

955
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 3: but by the time it's over, you don't want to

956
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 3: leave because at that point you've got your sobriety and

957
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 3: you're scared to go back out in the real world.

958
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 3: You don't know what's going to set it off, and

959
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 3: they tell you have to go back in the real world.

960
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,800
Speaker 3: Anywhere you go, there's going to be temptation.

961
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 1: Looking back, would you say that it worked?

962
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 3: It worked for a while.

963
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: Do you know what made you start partying again?

964
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 3: I'm an attic being thrown right back into the lions

965
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 3: dead war, death, destruction, partying afterwards, still with all the

966
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 3: same people, all the same accoutermentt you know, to party

967
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 3: with it less maybe about nine ten months.

968
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 1: That's actually pretty damn good, Yeah it is.

969
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 3: It wasn't a structure in war time for AA groups,

970
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:14,840
Speaker 3: and certainly there were no NA groups in Latin America.

971
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 3: It was all about the booze there. So I did

972
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:20,880
Speaker 3: find an AA group, and I was the only female

973
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 3: among all these dirt, poor humble peasants that literally would

974
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:31,280
Speaker 3: just be drinking and sleeping on the streets. I really

975
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 3: liked it. I really did. I said to myself, If

976
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,240
Speaker 3: they could do it, why can't I.

977
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 1: Do you believe in AA?

978
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:40,840
Speaker 3: I believe in that twelve step program.

979
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:42,840
Speaker 1: Well you've been sober verse seventeen.

980
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 3: Seventeen years, now clean it sober?

981
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 1: So how long did you go hard before you really

982
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 1: got sober?

983
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 3: I mean I started at fourteen and finished in my fifties. Yeah,

984
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 3: my drug of choice was weed. I just like that.

985
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 3: But coke, you know, that was that was my high,

986
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,839
Speaker 3: that was my jam. I snorted a piece of sheet

987
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 3: rock once, thinking it was it was a rock ouch. Well,

988
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 3: were you run out? You're kind of looking around get

989
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 3: off on it? No, it burned like motherfucker.

990
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 1: Cookie got help and it changed her life. If you

991
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:25,880
Speaker 1: or someone you love is struggling with drug or alcohol addiction,

992
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 1: there's help for you too. You can talk to someone

993
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 1: right now call one eight hundred sixty six ' to

994
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 1: two help day or night and is totally confidential. Next

995
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:43,720
Speaker 1: time on Journalista, the smoking gun gets shot down flying

996
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 1: over Nicaragua and the race is on to get the

997
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 1: biggest story of the eighties.

998
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:52,239
Speaker 3: I'm in Miami on vacation. I get a call from

999
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 3: someone in Nicaragua was saying, have you heard.

1000
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 9: No.

1001
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 3: The Sandinistas have proof now that the US is involved

1002
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:04,880
Speaker 3: because they caught an American associated with the CIA kicking

1003
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:08,720
Speaker 3: out supplies over Contra territory.

1004
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,800
Speaker 1: In the skies of Nicaragua. Don't miss the thrilling conclusion

1005
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 1: of Journalista, The world will never be the same. The

1006
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:22,760
Speaker 1: Journalista podcast features the stories and voice of Cookie Hood

1007
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 1: Narrated by Steven Esteb, Produced by Sean J. Donnelly. Executive

1008
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:33,280
Speaker 1: producers Jason Wagensback, Roy Laughlin, and Ellen k iHeart Executive

1009
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 1: producer Tyler Klang, Written and edited by Steven Esteb. Music

1010
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: by Jay Weigel, Associate producer in sound design Stephen Tanti.

1011
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 1: Sound mixing by Jesse Solon Snyder. Special guests Lloyd Sherr,

1012
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 1: John Basco, Alejandro Belly, and Carla Ferrell. This is a

1013
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 1: production of Journalista Podcast LLC and iHeartRadio.