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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph

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Speaker 1: Channel one. Two serious felony accusations, people's lives at risk,

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Speaker 1: jail time, hard jail time. And then suddenly we discover

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Speaker 1: the accusations are faults, made up, fabricated today three examples, known, examples,

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Speaker 1: tried and true. Three women make heinous charges against innocent people.

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Speaker 1: But why, I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us. What acts like this do

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Speaker 1: to the criminal justice system is really hard. It's hard

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Speaker 1: to measure because every time the jury sits in a

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Speaker 1: box and tries to determine guilt or innocence, they remember

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Speaker 1: cases like this. For instance, let's just start with Brianna Harmon,

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Speaker 1: nearly twenty years old. She rushes into a small church

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Speaker 1: in Dennison, Texas, wearing only a shirt, a bra, and

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Speaker 1: her underwear, screaming and crying, claiming she had been kidnapped

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Speaker 1: from her car, raped by two men in the woods

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Speaker 1: behind the church while a third man held her down.

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Speaker 1: Joining me right now, Jennifer Zikowski with heavy dot Com

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite sites, Jennifer, what can you tell

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Speaker 1: me how? Let's just start at the beginning, so everybody's

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Speaker 1: sitting in church there in Dennison, Texas and in MS.

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Speaker 1: Bring on a gorgeous young girl covered in blood. Yes,

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Speaker 1: take it all, Jennifer. Absolutely, as you said, the heinous um. Nowadays,

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Speaker 1: I guess it's not that shocking to me unfortunately, which

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Speaker 1: is very sad. With all the stories that I cover. Um,

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Speaker 1: by all accounts, Brianna truly appeared to be living a

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Speaker 1: life that so many would dream of. She was young,

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Speaker 1: she was attractive, she had a handsome fiance, and you

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Speaker 1: know what, what really could have been the start of

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Speaker 1: a great future. Um. Brianna's fiance, while obviously now an

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Speaker 1: x fience after what she put him through. His name

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Speaker 1: is Sam Hollin's word. Um, he isn't sure of what

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Speaker 1: her motive was, even he didn't know. One thing I

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Speaker 1: do know is that Brianna's fon fiance was set to

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Speaker 1: join the army and and he of course may have

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Speaker 1: had to move for that reason. Nancy. Here's what the

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Speaker 1: former fiance had to say on Fox four. There are

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Speaker 1: a lot of people or its gangs for us that

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Speaker 1: was hurt. It was hard to take in whenever I

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Speaker 1: found out about everything. Someone who actually I've actually trusted,

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Speaker 1: and it was plan on spend the rest of my

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Speaker 1: life with and actually do something like that to me

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Speaker 1: and everybody else in this community. And I spoke with

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Speaker 1: a friend of her fiance, Autumn Jones. She said that,

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Speaker 1: you know, this had been Sam's dream for a very

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Speaker 1: long time Army, and for whatever reason, Rihanna was wholeheartedly

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Speaker 1: against it. She did not want to move, and they

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Speaker 1: had really been arguing about it. So the only thing

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Speaker 1: and see that I can come up with is if

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Speaker 1: she felt like she could make him feel really horrible, Um,

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Speaker 1: if if maybe she made up this horrible, horrific crime,

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Speaker 1: that he would somehow be at her becking call, that

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Speaker 1: he would need to make her comfortable as possible, not

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Speaker 1: want to hurt her any more than she already had been,

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Speaker 1: you know, meanings he wouldn't crush her her to move

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Speaker 1: as he had wished or even maybe as he would

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Speaker 1: have been inspired to do through the arty. So I

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Speaker 1: really think it was her way of gaining control of

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Speaker 1: the situation. And what's so, well, it's all odd. It's

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Speaker 1: all odd with me. Jennifer Sakowski with Heavy dot Com

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter Wendy Patrick, California, prosecutor, doctor Chloe Carmichael, clinical

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Speaker 1: psychologist and founder of Asked Doctor c c dot com,

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Speaker 1: and Troy Slayton, veteran defense attorney Jennifer Zakowski. I want

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Speaker 1: to establish a few more facts before I open it

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Speaker 1: up to her panel. This I mean it was so

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Speaker 1: well planned out because it all started with a man

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Speaker 1: calling nine one one, the fiancee and frantically telling police

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Speaker 1: that Talbot's vehicle had been found in a parking lot

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Speaker 1: of Creek More apartments there on tek Sooma Parkway, where

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Speaker 1: the driver's door wide open, hanging open. Her keys, her phones,

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Speaker 1: her cell phone were in the car, and she artfully

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Speaker 1: found near the car as if she had been dragged away,

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Speaker 1: kicking and screaming, digging her heels in, then carried off

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Speaker 1: into a wooded area behind a church. She bursts into

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Speaker 1: the church. I'm looking at the church right now. I

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Speaker 1: can only imagine where these giant doors were opened up,

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Speaker 1: people were in there. I guess it must have been

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Speaker 1: a Wednesday night. She breaks in, covered in blood, wearing

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Speaker 1: a short abroad and underwear, screaming that she had been

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Speaker 1: attacked and raped by a group of men. All right,

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Speaker 1: the havoc that caused. But the reality Jennifer Zakowski, this

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Speaker 1: took a lot of planning to stage the scene. I mean,

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Speaker 1: with the car door wide open, like she had been

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Speaker 1: carjacked and somebody dragged her out of the car, even

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Speaker 1: thinking that special touch of leaving her shoe beside the

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Speaker 1: car Jennifer, Yes. And how someone could go through that

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Speaker 1: and go through all of that planning, um, I cannot

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Speaker 1: even imagine, and then to come up with, uh, with

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Speaker 1: the story that she did, that she was raped by

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Speaker 1: three blacks men. Of course, that that cost a huge controversy,

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Speaker 1: a huge sturt online. Um. There were so many headlines,

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Speaker 1: horrible headlines that actually I don't want to repeat all

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Speaker 1: of them right now, but as you can imagine, all right, Jennifer,

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Speaker 1: blame the black man. Here's Dennison, Texas Police Chief Jay Birch.

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Speaker 1: Information out there with respun out of control. H A

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Speaker 1: lot of our citizens became fearful. There were rumors that

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Speaker 1: there was either individuals or groups of individuals that were

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Speaker 1: randomly going around town of ducting women, and that just

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Speaker 1: that just wasn't truly the many people saw it on

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Speaker 1: social media and but almost immediately from our police perspectives,

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Speaker 1: for our investigators just we're not able to put the

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Speaker 1: pieces of the puzzle together as he would report to us,

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Speaker 1: and what happened as a result, we really found no

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Speaker 1: evidence of kidnapping and no evidence of the sexual assault.

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Speaker 1: So the crime scene, as we believe, starting with her vehicle,

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Speaker 1: all the way to the point that she walked into

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Speaker 1: the church, the stage, the injuries that she had, the

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Speaker 1: cuts and the bruises she confessed herself in printed. There

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Speaker 1: weren't all suspects, even thongishly. People were supplying us a

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Speaker 1: name here and there as possible persons of venture. Our

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Speaker 1: investigators actually checked one or a few people just leave

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Speaker 1: behind they very quickly. We're found to have albies that

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Speaker 1: we were ready to confirmed. So from the early stages

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Speaker 1: we kid through our diligence and following up. Reminds me

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Speaker 1: of Susan Smith. She's all flung up with her rich boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: She he doesn't want a ready made family, says she

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Speaker 1: drowns all her children, buckles him into the car and

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Speaker 1: pushes the car in the lake, then blames the black man.

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Speaker 1: I'm telling you what I'll never forget, Jennifer. When that happened,

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Speaker 1: I was sitting in court, Troy Slaton, You're gonna love

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Speaker 1: this story. You've been in quart a million times like me.

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting in court with my partner, a tall, thin

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Speaker 1: black male, and all the reports come out, and I

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Speaker 1: looked at the sketch, Troy, and I looked over at Harm.

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Speaker 1: I said, herman, where were you? The sketch looked exactly

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Speaker 1: like herman, who, I might add, as now a judge.

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Speaker 1: And he looked. He went, oh, dear Lord in Heaven,

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Speaker 1: the black man has done it again. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: just such a click. She to blame the black man,

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Speaker 1: so she runs in to the church. Troy, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you're about I'll set to defend her and blames three

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Speaker 1: non existent black guys and what that did to that community?

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Speaker 1: I mean, Troy, what is your defense? This is clearly

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Speaker 1: a girl who is suffering, suffering from what self aggrandizement,

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Speaker 1: self centeredness? What is she one of the ultimate main girls?

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Speaker 1: I mean, suffering from what I noticed she paused right there,

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Speaker 1: suffering from Let me think, Let me think, let me think,

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Speaker 1: let me think. What was she suffering from some sort

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Speaker 1: of mental disease or defect where she would go to

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Speaker 1: such an extent where she would actually cut her body.

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Speaker 1: The reports are that she caused cuts and lacerations that

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Speaker 1: resulted in blood dripping from her entire body. That is

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Speaker 1: not something that a person who is in control of

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Speaker 1: their faculties would do. Nancy, Yes, I agree with you.

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Speaker 1: Not in control of her faculties. Or maybe she was

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Speaker 1: just a self centered little well I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: do it either, I've hey, but all up, Well, I

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Speaker 1: had to wins my sailor mouth is gone. Wendy Patrick,

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Speaker 1: California prosecutor, please help me throw me a bone here, because, uh,

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Speaker 1: just to me self inflicted wounds. I mean, you can

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Speaker 1: spot on a mile away, number one, but number two,

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Speaker 1: this is the height of self cinderness. A possibly trying

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Speaker 1: to make your boyfriend give up his military career he's

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Speaker 1: dreamed of his whole life and stay in town with you.

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Speaker 1: Get attention. It's all about me, me, me me, and

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Speaker 1: then blame the black community who's minding their own business

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Speaker 1: until Brianna busts up in there blaming them. Yeah. Absolutely, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: I've got the easier argument on this one. Poor Troy.

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Speaker 1: That is the what. That is what the defensive has

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Speaker 1: to struggle with in cases like this if you've got

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Speaker 1: someone suffering from pathological narcissism to the extent that they

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Speaker 1: will actually go And and by the way, I suppose

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Speaker 1: it's good that we have an admission to go with

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Speaker 1: all this, just to make sure. But the level of sophistication, planning, drama,

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Speaker 1: and willingness to subject a community to a false belief,

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Speaker 1: where like you said, Nancy, you are looking with suspicion

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Speaker 1: at people that might fit the profile, is just beyond

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Speaker 1: the pale. And that's one of the reasons that when

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Speaker 1: we have righteous claims of kidnapping, you have these crying

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Speaker 1: wolf incidents that make people less able to to actually

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Speaker 1: look at righteous claims in the light that they should

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Speaker 1: be looked at, because we're suspicious when people like this

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Speaker 1: do what they did. Well, I guess I've I've lost

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Speaker 1: my mind here because I'm going to a reporter, a prosecutor,

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Speaker 1: and a defense lawyer on this. I've got a shrink people.

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Speaker 1: Dr Chloe, no offense, guys, because you're all unique and

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Speaker 1: special in your own individual way. Dr Chloe Carmichael asked

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Speaker 1: dr cc dot com clinical psychologist, this woman has confessed

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Speaker 1: that she did this. She made it up. She itself

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Speaker 1: inflicted the wounds. So it's not like I'm speculating she

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Speaker 1: made it up. She admits she made it up. After

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Speaker 1: the police and the sheriff's in that town say, we

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Speaker 1: don't think three guys kidnapped her. We think this was

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Speaker 1: staged and there's no indication she was raped. She broke

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Speaker 1: down and confessed. Dr Chloe take a listen to this.

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Speaker 1: Of course, the problem with this being a hoax is

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Speaker 1: it made our community, at least on our community variable,

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Speaker 1: And even though we know the story now to be

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Speaker 1: a hoax, there's gonna be people down the road that

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Speaker 1: remember this and they may have remember the outcome, and

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Speaker 1: that may put us thing on our community that we

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Speaker 1: can't get real that's always concerned was Rann a Talum

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Speaker 1: host was insulting to our community and startedly insulting to

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Speaker 1: our American unity in her description, and so calls us

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Speaker 1: it's you know, hopes and the anger and her center

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Speaker 1: called from such a Hopes are difficult and satellite so unnecessary.

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Speaker 1: This is never needed to have them, and it's it's

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Speaker 1: unfortunate that it's nowt to this direction too. Ways, the

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Speaker 1: police office police perform in time, we put all of

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Speaker 1: our cases, all back barns that we are currently working.

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Speaker 1: So we've been have not been able to perform our

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Speaker 1: duties for our other citizens in our community because we've

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Speaker 1: been so focused on this stuff a large crop. Dr Chloe,

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Speaker 1: please make sense of it, absolutely, Nancy. It sounds of frankly,

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Speaker 1: very much like sociopathy. So a sociopath would be someone

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Speaker 1: who has absolutely no regard for the for anyone else

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Speaker 1: except for themselves. And it's certainly does sound like she

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Speaker 1: had a motivation um to be seeking sympathy and claiming

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Speaker 1: a victim role so that her fiancee would make special

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Speaker 1: allowances and accommodations for her. Moreover, it doesn't sound like

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Speaker 1: she um you know, confessed out of guilt. It sounds

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Speaker 1: again very um self motivated that she realized basically that

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Speaker 1: she had been caught and it was now time to

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Speaker 1: switch and play a different type of victim card. And

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe claim that she's mentally disturbed or something

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Speaker 1: like that, but she sounds actually like someone who's very

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Speaker 1: much in control of her faculties. To me, man, can

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Speaker 1: you imagine Wendy Patrick when this girl grows up? Oh,

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Speaker 1: dear lord, she's just she's just UM, well, I can't

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Speaker 1: curse some let me think, um an evil mastermind in training? Okay,

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Speaker 1: did she still attain? What's going to happen when she's

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Speaker 1: grown up and has real problems like bills and chill

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Speaker 1: aldren and a house payment, a car payment. What's going

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Speaker 1: to happen? Then? Yeah? I gotta tell you. One of

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Speaker 1: the things that just struck me is what your last

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Speaker 1: guest said, a different type of victims, switching different types

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Speaker 1: of victim roles as she grows up. Nancy, what is

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Speaker 1: that going to look like? Unless this cycle is broken

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Speaker 1: right now? Who knows how bad this could get because

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Speaker 1: we already know by like you said that absolutely having

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Speaker 1: not the kind of remorse, guilt, shame that one would expect,

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Speaker 1: having put on this type of an elaborate show gone

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Speaker 1: to the extent that she did, staging the car and

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Speaker 1: the shoe and all the rest of it. I really

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Speaker 1: hope she gets the help she needs before we learn

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Speaker 1: what kind of an adult she's going to become. I

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Speaker 1: just love that the shoe. I mean that that's the

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Speaker 1: icing on the cake for me. Take a listen to this.

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Speaker 1: Can you would be a little bit more specific about

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Speaker 1: some of the things that you said just weren't adding

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Speaker 1: up about the story. UM, I'm thinking, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: along the lines of her injuries or are there any

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Speaker 1: other things that you can touch on that maybe kind

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Speaker 1: of took off and say, you know, these were some

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Speaker 1: of the red flags right off the bat that didn't

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Speaker 1: make sense. I'll give a couple of UM. First of all,

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Speaker 1: the apartment complex where this happening is a is a

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Speaker 1: very good and safe apartment complex. We just we don't

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Speaker 1: have that many calls after m And the location within

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Speaker 1: the apartment complex, if if you looked at it, there's

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Speaker 1: only one place in one place out. This allegedly occurred

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Speaker 1: at the very far back of the in the cold

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Speaker 1: stacked area of the accomplex, which would not be typical

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Speaker 1: of somebody who's trying to grab somebody and get away quickly.

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Speaker 1: Typically they're not going to go deeply into such a

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Speaker 1: complex where it may be difficult for them to get out.

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Speaker 1: The second part of the original allegation was the time

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Speaker 1: of day when this allegedly had heard. There's it's broad

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Speaker 1: their life. It's around the time kids are getting out

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Speaker 1: of school and getting home in school. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of people around. UM, and that again, isn't just not

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Speaker 1: typical that someone would grab somebody and brought day like

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Speaker 1: that would be good chance of being seen about witness

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Speaker 1: And of course we talked to everyone around there and

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Speaker 1: no one saw her, had even heard of anything at

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Speaker 1: that time. Make us believe it? Back to Jennifer Tikowski

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Speaker 1: with Heavy dot com investigative reporter, So, Jennifer, she admits

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Speaker 1: that she made the whole thing up. She was charged

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Speaker 1: with two counts of tampering with physical evidence, to counts

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Speaker 1: of tampering with a government record. Three of the charges

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Speaker 1: are felonies, and Carrie a maximum of ten years. What

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Speaker 1: she did is absolutely terrible on Like you said that

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Speaker 1: only to those around her, her loved ones, her fiance,

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Speaker 1: but to the black community itself. Um for her to

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Speaker 1: get off with something like probation, I think it would

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Speaker 1: really be offensive to those who have actually gone through

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Speaker 1: a horrible assault like she had lied about going through. Alan.

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Speaker 1: What's the end of this story? What happened? Nancy Brianna

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Speaker 1: Harmon has entered a plea of guilty to four felony

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Speaker 1: charges of tampering with physical evidence and government documents. Her

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Speaker 1: lawyer says she's quote very remorseful for what she did

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Speaker 1: and what she said, and that's why she's decided to

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Speaker 1: plead guilty, and the Dennison Police chief says his department

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Speaker 1: will be taking restitution from Brianna. We've spent, uh that's

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Speaker 1: an infant amount of costs and resources to pursue this case.

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Speaker 1: In fact, in our meetings that we've had over the

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Speaker 1: last couple of weeks, I think we put as much

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Speaker 1: and more into this as we do a murder in

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Speaker 1: this digitch. So that's how serious we believed it was,

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Speaker 1: and we've we've accepted it for that um once we

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Speaker 1: found out and confirmed it was a hubby. I think

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Speaker 1: it's all like fairer from a taxpayer, perfective that we

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Speaker 1: asked for those costs to be reimbursed to us because

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Speaker 1: we we've spent to demitate taxpayer money on regular time

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Speaker 1: and over time wanted these case and we also want

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Speaker 1: to send a message that if you want to lie

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Speaker 1: e police and make it a story, especially a later story,

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Speaker 1: life is that is what our called quality of lifetime.

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Speaker 1: Brianna Harmon shall be sentenced on March twenty, and prosecutors

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Speaker 1: have agreed to a plea deal with two possible punishments

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Speaker 1: for the judge to choose either regular probation or deferred adjudication.

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Speaker 1: That's where it would allow the conviction to be dismissed

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Speaker 1: from her criminal record after she successfully completed the probation period.

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Speaker 1: Of course, the offense once that deferred adjudication. Well, the

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Speaker 1: reality is that what this does is hurt so many

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Speaker 1: legitimate victims. Legitimate victims are now going to be testifying

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Speaker 1: in front of juries with this in the gerards minds

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Speaker 1: Brianna Harmon and now we had to south to talk

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Speaker 1: it A gorgeous on girl like long beautiful Jack. You

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Speaker 1: look at this girl, long, beautiful, dark brunette hair, um,

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Speaker 1: perfect skin, a perfect little cupid bow mouth. Just she's

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Speaker 1: just precious in every way, much like the Brianna girl.

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Speaker 1: Just a gorgeous, beautiful physically who knew about the snakes

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Speaker 1: writhing in their heads. This university student claims that she

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Speaker 1: is dragged into a bathroom at a party and raped

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Speaker 1: by two football stars. Never been arrested, never had a problem,

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Speaker 1: and both of them, both of the football players had

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Speaker 1: great grades. Never been caught driving and drinking, urinating in public,

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Speaker 1: causing a disturbance, speaking in windows, disorderly, Jiva nothing squeaky clean.

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Speaker 1: Joining me right now, Jennifer Zakowski with heavy dot Com,

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Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, Dr. Chloe Carmichael, and Troy Slayton right now.

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Speaker 1: Defense attorney Jennifer Zakowski, What happened with Nikki Vino? I

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Speaker 1: what it really sounds like to me? She wanted to

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Speaker 1: get on. She was hoping to win the sympathy of

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Speaker 1: another male student, and so she came up, Oh no,

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Speaker 1: not all this for a guy again. If you gotta

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Speaker 1: work this hard to get a guy, just forget him.

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Speaker 1: Moved to the next one. They're like busses. There's a

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Speaker 1: new one coming along every fifteen minutes. No offense, Troice Layton,

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Speaker 1: don't take it the wrong way. Okay, sorry, I interjected,

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Speaker 1: Go ahead, Jennifer. You were just saying, Jennifer Zakowski, that

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Speaker 1: this is all to get the attention of a boy. Bad.

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Speaker 1: It's it's just disgusting that you could, you know, for

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Speaker 1: three months, because it was It did take three months

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Speaker 1: for her to recant her story. These men, these football

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Speaker 1: players who had so much going for them, they were

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Speaker 1: seen as monsters because of her false accusations. Um, of

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Speaker 1: course she's claiming to be suffering from a psychiatric illness. UM.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's kind of tough to say what's really

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Speaker 1: going to pan out in the end. And as far

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Speaker 1: as you know, why did she do this? You know,

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Speaker 1: was she a pathological liar? I was thinking about that,

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Speaker 1: and cathemological liars they lie without reason or purpose. Again,

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Speaker 1: you know, without reason or purpose. She had a reason.

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Speaker 1: Nicky had a reason, and in mind opinion, that was

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Speaker 1: selfishly to put her own lost over that of two

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Speaker 1: young football players. Again, those football players who had everything

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Speaker 1: going for them, um, and any owns of integrity that

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Speaker 1: she may have had went out the window at that

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Speaker 1: moment when she made that choice to make these false accusations.

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Speaker 1: It's been reported that these players lost their football scholarships,

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Speaker 1: and that means a lot because I remember when I

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Speaker 1: met my fiance, Keith, he was on baseball scholarship and

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Speaker 1: that paid for him to go to college, and that

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Speaker 1: means a lot to people. My sister went to university

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Speaker 1: on scholarship. It's another harrowing case, uh, a rape occurring

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Speaker 1: at a college party where underage students are drinking. This

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Speaker 1: girl claims she was repeatedly assaulted by two Sacred Heart

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Speaker 1: University football players in a tiny little bathroom where the

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Speaker 1: party was going on outside. The players were dismissed from

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Speaker 1: the team. They withdrew from school. Uh reportedly lost their

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Speaker 1: football scholarships. Her lawyer insisted that she was horribly assaulted

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Speaker 1: when suddenly a new line, a new theory, line of

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Speaker 1: facts appear. Did she make the whole thing up to

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Speaker 1: gain the attention of ape boy friend? Okay, Troy Slayton,

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Speaker 1: you're the veteran defense attorney. What are you gonna do

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Speaker 1: with this? It's gonna be difficult, Nancy. Just like all

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Speaker 1: of these cases where a person like this is accused

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Speaker 1: of upending our entire them of justice, where we'd rather

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Speaker 1: a hundred or a thousand guilty people go free than

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Speaker 1: rather have one innocent person suffer a false accusation. We

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Speaker 1: need to look at what it was, all the things

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Speaker 1: in her life that brought her to this, and maybe

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Speaker 1: instead of incarcerating her in jail, we craft approbationary sentence

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Speaker 1: that gets her the help that she is obviously screaming

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Speaker 1: out for and needs. Uh. You know what, Wendy Patrick,

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Speaker 1: I think she can't get help behind bars. They're not

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Speaker 1: mutually exclusive No, that's absolutely correct. And you know, Chroice,

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Speaker 1: that really hit it on the nail on the head.

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Speaker 1: He she did this, she upended the system of justice

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Speaker 1: and that deserves punishment plus rehabilitation. Of course she can

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Speaker 1: get it behind bars, and there has to be a

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Speaker 1: punishment more than counseling for this kind of the behavior

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Speaker 1: because of the damage it could potentially do in the community.

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Speaker 1: We see cases like this, and like you said earlier,

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Speaker 1: it delegitimizes victims that actually are raped in bathrooms to

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Speaker 1: have people falsely claim that they're not, so that we've

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Speaker 1: become desensitized to these allegations as a community, as a society,

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Speaker 1: and jurors will have forefront in their minds these false

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Speaker 1: claims instead of listening to when it does actually happen.

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Speaker 1: So these are great points, and I'm glad we're talking

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Speaker 1: about this, Nancy, because people need to Well. I got

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Speaker 1: an update for you, Andy, I got an update for you,

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Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick. She just rejected a plea deal. Miss Thing

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Speaker 1: has rejected a plea deal. Wendy. I know you, like me,

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Speaker 1: have tried and investigated so many rape cases. I don't

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Speaker 1: even remember how many. I remember a guy named nicknamed

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Speaker 1: the red rapist because he always wore red on every

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Speaker 1: rape and he'd leave a red rose in the room

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Speaker 1: after he raped the lady. Um and these it was

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Speaker 1: very difficult for these victims to relive it on the

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Speaker 1: stand um. Some of them could barely speak. I've had

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Speaker 1: rape victims bend over in half on the stand in tears.

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Speaker 1: They couldn't even sit up. I had one woman, uh refuse.

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Speaker 1: She told everybody about her rape, the evidence supported her rape.

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Speaker 1: She was beating horribly when her husband came in the courtroom.

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Speaker 1: She would not say she was rape because of her culture.

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Speaker 1: That made her quote unclean and dishonorable. And I can't

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Speaker 1: even tell you what we had to go through. It

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Speaker 1: just the shame and the stigma attached to rape victims.

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Speaker 1: Then I had one victim, and I remember Court TV

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Speaker 1: wanted to cover this serial rape case live and I

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Speaker 1: immediately said, no, I've got a camera in the court

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Speaker 1: room on these ladies. It got back to the women

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Speaker 1: and one of them looked at me and said, why,

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Speaker 1: I'm not ashamed. I didn't do anything wrong. Yeah, put

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Speaker 1: it on TV and show his face, not mine, or

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Speaker 1: show mine, and he is I don't care and you

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Speaker 1: know what. I went back and I said, well, there's

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Speaker 1: been an unusual change of events. We are we will

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Speaker 1: do it. And she was right. She was right. It's

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Speaker 1: not her fault. And what this woman does, it attacks

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Speaker 1: the credibility of every rape victim. Listen to this Jennifer

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Speaker 1: at Szagowski heavy dot com. Uh, you brought my attention

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Speaker 1: to this guy's. The case of this former Connecticut college

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Speaker 1: student who was charged with lying about a rape by

426
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: two star university football players is headed to trial. It's

427
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: reported that nineteen year old Nikki Yaveno reject did a

428
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: plea deal. They offered her a two year prison sentence,

429
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: and a judge offered a one year prison sentence. One year.

430
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: I mean the reality Troy s Layton on one year.

431
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: One year. Now, it's important they said one year versus

432
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: twelve months, because if the sentence reads twelve months, that

433
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: means it's a misdemeanor. When they say one year, that

434
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: means it's going to be regarded as a felony. So

435
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: they offer her one year. You know what she would

436
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: do on that Troy with this kind of charge, she

437
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: might do maybe two months, eight weeks behind bars before

438
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: they cut her loose to open up that bed for

439
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: a violent felon or a drug dealer, right am, I right, Troy.

440
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: It all depends every jurisdiction, Troy, as to how long

441
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: they're gonna keep somebody. But Nancy going to trial, uh

442
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: is is possibly a good thing for the defense here

443
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: as far as strategy, because in order to get a conviction,

444
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: they need all twelve jurors to agree beyond a reasonable doubt.

445
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: But as a defense attorney, we know that all we

446
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: need is to turn one juror and that's a hung jury,

447
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: which is a win for the defense. Police say she

448
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: admitted to making up all the claims because she was

449
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: worried another guy would lose interest in her when he

450
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: found out about the voluntary sex encounter in the bathroom.

451
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: Oh kay. To Dr Chloe Carmichael, clinical psychologist and founder

452
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: of Ask dr cc dot com, Dr CC helped me

453
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: out here in Nancy, I'm I'm appalled. I mean, really,

454
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: the thing that people are missing, I think when it

455
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: comes to you know, quote, the help that they need

456
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: these women, what they need is consequences. What they're suffering

457
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: from is um is a sense of entitlement and the

458
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: way that we care entitlement is to provide consequences. Um,

459
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's very it's wonderful that in our community,

460
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: of course, people want to rally around a rape victim

461
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: and and bolster them as much as we can. And

462
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: so for somebody to then just glam onto that and

463
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: make up a rape because they just want the support

464
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: of the community, or in this case, this woman wanted

465
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: to kind of um, ignite the protective side of a

466
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: man that she knew that she thought maybe this would

467
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: help him to become very protective and carrying towards her.

468
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: The fact that she would exploit that tendency in a man,

469
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: or exploit those tendencies in a community, I think one

470
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: year is Um, it's an insult to the honor of

471
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: the men that she has defame. You know, you're right,

472
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: and I'm very surprised. I mean, let's just get real

473
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: for a moment. Once she is convicted, which I think

474
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: she will base it, she's as to everything, um, and

475
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: there was no proof that a rape had occurred. What

476
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: she is convicted Troy Slayton. Don't you think that there

477
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:18,959
Speaker 1: will be a civil suit by these guys against her? Absolutely? Uh?

478
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 1: And in a civil suit in a case like this,

479
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: if she is convicted, then the only issue is of

480
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: how much money. Once a conviction occurs, liability has been

481
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 1: determined and the only issue will be how much money.

482
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 1: But they don't even have to file a civil suit

483
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 1: if there is a criminal conviction because they can recover

484
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: all of their monetary damages from restitution that can be

485
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 1: ordered by a criminal judge that's enforceable as if it

486
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 1: were a civil judgment. Guys, we are waiting for this

487
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: to unfold, but as of right now, Nikki Yuvino has

488
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: rejected plea deal Nancy. Although Yovino's lawyer insists she denies

489
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: lying about the sex assault and she stands by her

490
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: original story, a police Hava Davit just made public says

491
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: that she told investigators that she quote made up the

492
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: allegations of sexual assault against the football players because it

493
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 1: was the first thing that came to her mind and

494
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: she didn't want to lose another male student as a

495
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 1: friend and potential boyfriend. The police warrant also says that

496
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,439
Speaker 1: she stated she believed when the other male student heard

497
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,439
Speaker 1: the allegation, it would make him angry and sympathetic to her.

498
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: Yovina is charged now with second degree false reporting of

499
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: an incident and tampering with or fabricating physical evidence. The

500
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: tampering charge is a felony and she could get up

501
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: to five years in prison for that. She has been

502
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: freed on one fifty dollars bond. She is presumed innocent

503
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: until proven guilty, and now the state will take on

504
00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: that burden to prove the case. Now wet to Tusca

505
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: Loosa and a woman who was now under arrest. Police

506
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: say there's no doubt about it. She lied about her

507
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: ex coming in home, invasion, tying her up, and assaulting her.

508
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: Another scary aspect of this. She's a mom. I wonder

509
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: what effect all of this is having on her child.

510
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 1: To Jennifer A. Tzikowski with Heavy dot Com, an investigative reporter,

511
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: what can you tell me about what goes down at

512
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: five pm on a lovely tree lined street, gray Stone

513
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: Drive and twenty five year old Mariah Jordan's smith. What happened? Jennifer? Well,

514
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: you know, she she called police. She claimed to have

515
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: been raped and tied up by an ex boyfriend. And

516
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: that's sure if that was for revenge or what a

517
00:36:54,840 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: motive could be behind putting in such a terrible allegation

518
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: towards someone accusing them of something so terrific. And the

519
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: reason I say, she's really not smart and she didn't

520
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: even realize that he was actually out of pound. So

521
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: police from the beginning they found discrepancies in her story. Um,

522
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: but once they were able to verify that the ex

523
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 1: boyfriend had been out of state, you know, her story

524
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: was destroyed and she had to come clean. And so

525
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: with that said, again, this goes back to when you're

526
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 1: giving a false accusation of rape, you're hurting every single

527
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 1: true sexual assault victim out there. It's appalling and I

528
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: favor as someone Nancy, who was a very close family

529
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: member who was kidnapped, she was brutally rape. This is

530
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: my sister, m This type of behavior, it's offensive to

531
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: my sister, to those who have actually lived through the

532
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: reality you know, of a true rape, a total and

533
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: utter nightmare. And with this woman, I believe they need

534
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,720
Speaker 1: to make an example will of all of these women,

535
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: but also with Maria, they need to be punished to

536
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: the full extent of the law. No, not only you know,

537
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: as an example, but to prevent the destruction of other

538
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 1: lives so that maybe someone else who is thinking of

539
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: doing something so absolutely crazy. We'll stop and think, oh,

540
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: you know what Mariah went through, and what Brianna went through,

541
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 1: what Nikki went through, and maybe they'll stop and think

542
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 1: what the consequences are and hopefully not go through with

543
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: destroying more lives. Wendy Patrick, Southern California prosecutor, Dr. Chloe Carmichael,

544
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: and Troy Slayton, veteran defense attorney. The facts laid out

545
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: by police or as follows. Tuscaloosa police were sent around

546
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: five in the afternoon to a gray Stone Drive home

547
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,320
Speaker 1: with a report of sex assault. The alleged victim, Ryan Smith,

548
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: tells them there's no doubt about the idea of the

549
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: perpetrator that it was her former boyfriend who enters her

550
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: home uninvited through an unlocked door. That's steal a burglary

551
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: goes in her bedroom. Now catch this the level of detail.

552
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: He ties her legs to the bed, ties her hands together,

553
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: and rapes her and then leaves the home. Well, it

554
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: didn't take long for them to find out he wasn't

555
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: in the state at the time. He was out of

556
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:58,720
Speaker 1: the state the entire time. Hood The police chief corroborates

557
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 1: his alibi with low law enforcement, and she hadn't been

558
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: so uh dead sure as to the perp. They may

559
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 1: have been on a wild goose chase for the real

560
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 1: for the real purp in quoties, but she was sure

561
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: positive she I date her ex boyfriend, no doubt about it.

562
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: He was out of the state. What's interesting to me

563
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 1: to Dr Chloe Carmichael, founder of dot Asked dr cc

564
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: dot com, is the level of detail in these lies.

565
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: When I would prosecute or cross examined, I would listen

566
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:40,760
Speaker 1: to the level of detail in various people's stories because

567
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: that takes him thinking, you know, to make up a

568
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:48,479
Speaker 1: lie rich with detail, It certainly does. She did that here,

569
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: Dr Chloe, Yes, it certainly does, Nancy. And the level

570
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:57,240
Speaker 1: of detail, um, in this case, it almost suggests, frankly,

571
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 1: on the level of fantasy. UM. You know, which is

572
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 1: something else to consider as well. UM. You know, it's

573
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 1: the what type of relationship or what type of attention?

574
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: Um you know that that she might have been seeking? Um.

575
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: We we really don't know. But the level of detail,

576
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: I agree, is absolutely captivating. And I'll tell you, Nancy,

577
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: as a clinical psychologist in New York City, I have

578
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 1: had women come into my practice and in their you know,

579
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 1: privacy of closed doors, confessed to me that they have

580
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 1: absolutely made up a rape or made up a sexual

581
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: harassment because they wanted to get some money out of

582
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: their company or whatever the case may be. So these

583
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: things really do happen. And as has been said before,

584
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: and I agree a percent, it really cheapens um. You know,

585
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: the the pain that actual victims of harassment and actual

586
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,760
Speaker 1: victims of rape do go through. And I'm so glad

587
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: that you're finally breaking the boo because as a society,

588
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 1: we have such an emphasis on believing the victim, which

589
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 1: is important, but we have to remember that sometimes the

590
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: victim is actually a perpetrator. To Roye Slight and defense

591
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 1: attorney in this one, it was that absolutely rock hard,

592
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 1: solid positive idea of her X that did this story in. Normally,

593
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: I criticized police for engaging in what I call a

594
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: confirmation bias, where they are looking for evidence to confirm

595
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: that they believe a certain person committed the crime. But

596
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: here the police actually did some real good old fashioned

597
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: police work and we're able to uh disapprove several of

598
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: the allegations that she made, the biggest one being that

599
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 1: her boyfriend wasn't even in the state. But as we

600
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:05,720
Speaker 1: move as a society into too, uh, really a different

601
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: phase with the entire me too movement. I think this

602
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: is an excellent story because a lot of men have

603
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: had a lot of clients who have been wrongly accused,

604
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: and we're we're at a point where people are just

605
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 1: automatically believing every accused. We'll hold on, hold on just

606
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 1: a moment. See Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor. This is the

607
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: problem now we're starting, We're talking about all these guys

608
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: who are claiming They're like, oh, yeah, I was wrongfully accused.

609
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: B s. Okay. This is few and far between. And

610
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 1: with the technology we have today, as you can scientifically

611
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 1: prove whether or not someone was raped. In many cases,

612
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: a rape kit shows that a nurse at a exam

613
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: can determine trauma in the pelvic area. Uh. There's so

614
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,399
Speaker 1: many ways to corroborate the story, and the guys are

615
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 1: claiming in so many cases the same old thing, it

616
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 1: was consensual. Another issue here is this is a young mom,

617
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 1: this tuscalooth a mom arrested for false report after she

618
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 1: admits she lied about her ex raping and tying her up.

619
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: She is a nurse. I mean, do you want her

620
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 1: hovering around your bed? I mean, if she's gonna lie

621
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: to police about this. You know there was a jury charge, Wendy,

622
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: and I'm sure you've heard it. If the jury believes

623
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: a witness, be it defendant, victim, or witness, has lied

624
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: in part on anything, even if it's small, the jury

625
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: can then discount their testimony in its entirety. Oh absolutely, Nancy.

626
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: And you know this one the things I'm glad you

627
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 1: brought up is false reports are few and far between.

628
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: I'm glad we're publicizing them today because they actually do exist.

629
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: But the fact that there are few and far between

630
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: and as important component of this whole me to mix

631
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 1: where more people can say, oh, yeah, I was also

632
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: falsely accused. The reason these ones came to light that

633
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: we're discussing is diligent police investigation caused the original stories

634
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: to begin to unravel. That is not the case in

635
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:31,720
Speaker 1: many of the crimes that we see. They are corroborated forensically, Nancy.

636
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: As you say, they are corroborated through other witnesses, through victims,

637
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,760
Speaker 1: through a patterns make the predator type of uh. Serial

638
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 1: victims sometimes. In other words, there's far more than just

639
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: one statement in isolation that can then be matched with, well, gosh,

640
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: where was the perpetrator who saw him? What other evidence

641
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 1: is there? So the fact that these are few and

642
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: far between should be kept in the mix, because it's

643
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: not true that every time we get another allegation we

644
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 1: should automatically assume it's false just because we've caught some

645
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 1: of the false ones. I'm glad we've caught some of

646
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 1: the false ones because we don't want anybody to be

647
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 1: accused unjustly. We also don't want it to affect the

648
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: legitimacy of the real allegations and the true allegation exactly now.

649
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: I want to point out that these ladies are innocent

650
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 1: until proven guilty or until they plead guilty, And especially

651
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 1: this one concerns me. I don't know what was going

652
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 1: through their minds when they thought this was a good idea,

653
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 1: or how smart they thought they were that they could

654
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: pull this off. But one of these ladies has a

655
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:43,919
Speaker 1: little girl, a child she is raising, and one day

656
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 1: she's going to have to explain this to that child,

657
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 1: and that's going to be a conversation I don't want

658
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:56,280
Speaker 1: to listen to Nancy Grace, Hoping justice will prevail crime stories,

659
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,