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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.

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Speaker 1: Or showed us an email at trust Me pod at

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Speaker 1: gmail dot com.

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Speaker 2: Trust me.

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Speaker 3: Trust me.

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Speaker 1: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 2: I've never lied to you. I never If you think

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Speaker 2: that one person has all the answers, don't welcome to

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Speaker 2: trust Me. The podcast about cults, extreme belief and manipulation

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Speaker 2: from two lovers who've actually experienced it. I'm lo La

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Speaker 2: Blanc and I'm making Elizabeth. And today our guest is

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Speaker 2: Mattie Stroud, whom you may have seen on the HBO

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Speaker 2: docu series Love Has Won because she is the late

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Speaker 2: cult leader Amy Carlson's daughter. Amy Carlson is the one

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Speaker 2: whose mummified body was found wrapped in Christmas lights in Colorado. Today,

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk about what she remembers of her

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Speaker 2: mom as a kid, how it felt after Amy suddenly

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Speaker 2: left Maddie and her brothers when she was only seven,

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Speaker 2: and how she discovered that her mom had started the

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Speaker 2: Love Has One New Age cult, claiming that she was God,

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Speaker 2: or more specifically Mother God.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 1: We'll also talk about how Amy's cult grew and her

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Speaker 1: followers became more fanatical, and how her last boyfriend, known

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Speaker 1: as Father God, contributed to her demise, and how difficult

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Speaker 1: it was for Maddie to watch her mother's health deteriorate,

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Speaker 1: knowing that the people around her could have tried to help.

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Speaker 1: Plus how there are still followers till this day.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: This documentary is the most batshit crazy thing I have

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Speaker 1: ever seen in my entire life. Watching it as her daughter,

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Speaker 1: I cannot even imagine, and then having the courage to

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Speaker 1: still talk about it. I know, she's unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: I know. I mean, it's truly shocking everything because they

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Speaker 2: just filmed so much. You normally don't get to see

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Speaker 2: into the psychology of, oh what's happening, but they filmed everything.

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Speaker 1: HBO Mother Love Has One, that's what it's called.

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Speaker 2: It's really good. It's really good.

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Speaker 1: I just my friend was explaining it to me and

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Speaker 1: I thought she was lying, truly, but you knew the story. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But I mean when somebody's like yeah, and then there's

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Speaker 1: like a corpse trapped in Christmas lights and they're traveling.

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Speaker 1: I was like, no, there's not I didn't believe it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it is wild, but anyway, we will get

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Speaker 2: into women it.

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Speaker 1: I just wow, love for Maddie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I know, I know. Cultist thing yours.

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Speaker 1: So my cultiest thing is I was at a comedy

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Speaker 1: show and it's near the restaurant La Poop Belle. Apparently

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Speaker 1: Lapoop Belle is one of the in Los Angeles, and

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles is one of the frequented places of convicted

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Speaker 1: rapist and scientologist Danny Masterson. That was like his hot spot.

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Speaker 1: It's right across from the Celebrity Center, the Scientology Celebrity Center,

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Speaker 1: and you would always see him there. I remember always

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Speaker 1: seeing him there with his friends. And apparently he was

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Speaker 1: putting drugs and women's drink at the bar. People are

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Speaker 1: saying then, even after he was committed of all of this,

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Speaker 1: the owner wrote a letter of recommendation for the judge.

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Speaker 1: And so when you go out now to La Poobelle,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I haven't been Lahlah Belt, but when you

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Speaker 1: go to these restaurants near it, there's all these people protesting,

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Speaker 1: and so they film people going in and leaving, like

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Speaker 1: outing who is frequenting this bar to try to kind

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Speaker 1: of run it to the ground. But people were recording

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Speaker 1: us walking out of UCB, and it kind of felt like.

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Speaker 2: It was an improv Yeah, it kind of.

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Speaker 1: Felt like it looked like they were making it seem

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Speaker 1: like we were coming out of lah Boo Belle, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, exqueeze me, but I'm not gonna say anything,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm I don't want to engage and like

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Speaker 1: start some argument. Sure, but you were kind of saying

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Speaker 1: it reminds you of the second season of The Jinks,

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Speaker 1: which everybody needs to watch. But it's just like, not

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Speaker 1: the not the protesters, how in the Jinx is just

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Speaker 1: his friends kind of.

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Speaker 2: They're like, yeah, well he murdered someone, but you know whatever.

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Speaker 1: And that's kind of was the vibe. Like I remember

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Speaker 1: being at Lapoo Bell and somebody being like, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean Danny is a rapist and he's outside on the body.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh what, And it all became this

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Speaker 1: very like scientology protected apparently you know kind of thing

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Speaker 1: that I haven't teased out all the details, but it

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Speaker 1: was very weird, and now I'm like recorded looking like

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Speaker 1: I would to freaking labhobou.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's it's just such an interesting thing because you know,

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Speaker 2: we see people rightfully having strong reactions to really bad behavior,

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Speaker 2: sexual assaults, enabling sexual assault, excusing sexual assault, all these

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Speaker 2: things are terrible, occult covering up sexual you know, like

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Speaker 2: all of it is really bad. But then it turns

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Speaker 2: into a protest outside that's demonizing any person even remotely

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Speaker 2: in the area of the establishment, which that's not exactly

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Speaker 2: like nuanced behavior either. It's not really like what is

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Speaker 2: that actually contributing, which in itself is a little bit

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Speaker 2: cult Tea. Yeah, you know, obviously I totally understand and

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Speaker 2: empathize and feel the instinct to kind of like not

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Speaker 2: let people continue to cover up the actions of bad

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Speaker 2: famous people. Yeah, but also you were just going easy,

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Speaker 2: and it's just so weird.

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Speaker 1: It's just a weird little thing. And it's also just

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Speaker 1: so weird to like be at UCB and eat somewhere afterwards.

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Speaker 1: It's just this normal street on Los Angeles and it's

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Speaker 1: just the biggest scientology center across the street. Just like,

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Speaker 1: what the fuck is going on in there? You know,

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Speaker 1: you can see like lights stirting on and off, and

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, what is going on?

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Speaker 2: It's such a mystery always because it looks like a castle. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's beautiful.

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Speaker 1: It's so I once like when I first moved here,

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Speaker 1: I asked if I could move in because I thought

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Speaker 1: it was like an apartment. I feel like we all

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Speaker 1: went through that phase. Yeah, yeah, that's how they get you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy out there. That's what I have to

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Speaker 2: say to that.

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Speaker 1: I know, what about you? What's the cultiest thing that

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Speaker 1: happened to you this week?

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm reading a book, you are. I'm reading a

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Speaker 2: book which I know is crazy.

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Speaker 1: What is it?

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Speaker 3: Is?

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Speaker 2: Called on Being Certain by Robert Burton. It's a good rhyme.

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Speaker 2: He's a poet and he didn't even know it the book.

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Speaker 1: You mean, because his last name riends with his Okay

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Speaker 1: that's why.

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Speaker 2: Ye, I've just started it. There's a lot more book

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Speaker 2: to go, but I am obsessed with this book. I'm

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Speaker 2: kind of obsessed with him, to be honest, because he's

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Speaker 2: written about so much stuff that I'm just like, particularly,

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Speaker 2: very very interested in. But one of the things he

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Speaker 2: kind of opens the book with just this basic premise

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Speaker 2: that certainty is actually an emotion. It's not reflective of

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Speaker 2: reality really at all. You don't feel certain because you know,

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Speaker 2: you feel certain because you have the feeling of certainty,

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Speaker 2: which is just something I had never really heard framed

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Speaker 2: that way before, but I've been reading about it since,

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Speaker 2: and that seems to be the case.

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Speaker 1: Interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So here's a story that he tells okay, great

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Speaker 2: or that he writes about.

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Speaker 1: There's a study.

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Speaker 2: The day after the nineteen eighty six Challenger Shuttle accident,

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Speaker 2: psychologist you'll Rick Nicer, probably saying it wrong, asked one

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Speaker 2: hundred and six students to write down exactly where they

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Speaker 2: were and what they were doing when they first heard

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Speaker 2: about the explosions. Have you heard about this No? He

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Speaker 2: then interviewed to students same students two and a half

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Speaker 2: years later to see how accurate their memory would be

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Speaker 2: and how certain they would be about that match memory.

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Speaker 2: Less than one in ten got the details right, but

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Speaker 2: almost all of them were certain that their memories were accurate.

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Speaker 2: Twenty five percent of them had. Their perception of what

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Speaker 2: happened was completely completely different and unrelated to what they

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Speaker 2: had written in their journals about it. They found that

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Speaker 2: out they wrote it all down right after Yeah, so

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Speaker 2: it was all he had, all of the journals. And

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Speaker 2: then when they were confronted with their original journal entries,

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Speaker 2: because obviously when something is fresh on your mind, when

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Speaker 2: they're confronted with their original journal entries, many of them

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Speaker 2: defended their beliefs. One of them even answered, that's my handwriting,

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Speaker 2: but that's not what happened. WHOA So to quote a

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Speaker 2: New Yorker article about the study, it showed that there

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Speaker 2: was no relationship at all between confidence and accuracy. And

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Speaker 2: that's what the whole book is about. Just because you

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Speaker 2: feel certain does not mean that what you feel certain

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Speaker 2: of is actually true. It's you know, like for whatever

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Speaker 2: evolutionary reason. That's just like the way our brains are wired.

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Speaker 2: But the more certain you feel that you could absolutely

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Speaker 2: not be wrong, more likely you are to probably actually

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Speaker 2: be wrong, because that means you're not thinking critically about it.

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Speaker 1: Right anyway.

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Speaker 2: I have a lot more book to go, but it

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Speaker 2: just I just got excited about it because I love it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it brings up so many questions to

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Speaker 1: my mind. But I'm going to read the book and

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Speaker 1: then maybe we can have him on.

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Speaker 2: I've been trying. He's quite old, is he He's quite old?

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Speaker 2: And I actually emailed him just because I was like,

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Speaker 2: can we be like friends? Yeah, Like I just want

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Speaker 2: to like talk to you because I just I just

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Speaker 2: think his work is really interesting. But we'll see. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: so lots more to dive into with that. I'm excited

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Speaker 2: to learn more. We will revisit this concept at a

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Speaker 2: later time, but for now, I think we should talk

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Speaker 2: to Maddie. What do you think I think we should

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Speaker 2: do it. Welcome Mattie Stroud to trust me. Thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for being.

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Speaker 3: Here with us, of course anytime.

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Speaker 2: We really appreciate you coming on because this is such

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Speaker 2: a vulnerable place to be coming from where you are

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Speaker 2: the daughter of someone with such an extreme history, and

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Speaker 2: I'm sure there's a lot to tackle there emotionally, So

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Speaker 2: thank you of course. So you're here with us today

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Speaker 2: because you are the daughter of Amy Carlson, who, for

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Speaker 2: those who have not seen the docuseries Love Has Won,

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Speaker 2: which you are also on, she was the leader of

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Speaker 2: that group, and she was the one who was found

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Speaker 2: dead in her home and being treated as though she

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Speaker 2: was still alive. Can you just start as kind of

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Speaker 2: at the beginning of your story. In your childhood, you

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Speaker 2: were still with your mom up until about age five,

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Speaker 2: is that right?

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Speaker 3: Seven seven?

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Speaker 2: So what do you remember of her? What were those

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Speaker 2: years like?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I wasn't with her for very long. She

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Speaker 3: did give up her rights for parenting me when I

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Speaker 3: was very little, so my grandma took over for a

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Speaker 3: long time. However, she was still kind of in and

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Speaker 3: out of my life at the time. As a kid,

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Speaker 3: I didn't really think she was going through anything or

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Speaker 3: like crazy or any type of way like people were saying,

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Speaker 3: And she was very normal. She was. She treated me

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Speaker 3: like her daughter. She was a mom to me. She

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Speaker 3: just couldn't be in a parent way. But yeah, I

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Speaker 3: mean she would come pick me and we would go

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Speaker 3: to the park or something, and my brother was learning

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Speaker 3: how to skateboard. So this is kind of like a

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Speaker 3: little story of how she was a parent to me

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Speaker 3: at the time. Yeah. So my older brother, he was

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Speaker 3: learning how to skateboard, and obviously, as a little sister,

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Speaker 3: I wanted to be on that skateboard. Yeah right, So

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Speaker 3: he pushed me down this really big hill and yeah,

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Speaker 3: my mom just comes running after me. And that was

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Speaker 3: probably like the most mom point in that moment, she

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Speaker 3: hugged me, I'm wearing just like this princess costume. I

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Speaker 3: wish I could find a picture. I used to have

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Speaker 3: a picture, but not sure where it's at at the moment.

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Speaker 3: But I had this big gash on my knee and

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Speaker 3: she banished me all up And that was probably like

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Speaker 3: the biggest moment that I do remember with her. But

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Speaker 3: that's kind of how she was throughout my entire life

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Speaker 3: of knowing her.

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Speaker 2: So she had like normal maternal instincts. Your family had

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Speaker 2: no reason to think that she would just kind of

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Speaker 2: up and disappear one day.

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Speaker 3: Right, my nana, she could tell you. My mom wasn't

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Speaker 3: super big on having kids growing up. I know she

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Speaker 3: went through a lot of things with different guys and

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Speaker 3: a lot of pregnancy scares, but she was never really

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Speaker 3: big on having kids. But she did care whenever we

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Speaker 3: were there. I know she cared. She just didn't necessarily

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Speaker 3: know how to parent, which is an issue day to day.

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Speaker 3: So she was pretty She was pretty normal, had those

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Speaker 3: maternal instincts.

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Speaker 2: You know. In the documentary, your grandmother was talking about

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Speaker 2: how she was like a manager at McDonald's and it

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Speaker 2: seemed like she was moving up and you know, she

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Speaker 2: could have had this career and management and then something

255
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Speaker 2: just happened one day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was like literally like a light switch.

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Speaker 1: Wow, is there?

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Speaker 2: Does your family have theories about what happened? Would change?

259
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Speaker 3: So the first guy in the documentary, the older man,

260
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Speaker 3: when she met him, that's when everything started to go downhill.

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Speaker 3: We didn't know anything about it, and it just one day,

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Speaker 3: it just it just switched. And it's just crazy how

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Speaker 3: it happened. And we don't really have like definite theories

264
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Speaker 3: about kind of what happened. We knew she was going

265
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Speaker 3: through something. It was never like we thought she was

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Speaker 3: going to leave. And when they talk about in the documentary,

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Speaker 3: how about how she just up and leaves dinner. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it sounds crazy that no one went to go after her,

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Speaker 3: but you got to think in that situation, she didn't

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Speaker 3: tell anyone what she was doing. She could have been

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Speaker 3: going to the bathroom, you know, so we didn't No

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Speaker 3: one knew that she was just gonna come back. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: whenever she just up and last, so it was legit

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Speaker 3: she got up and just went out the door. It's

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Speaker 3: so wild, and never came back.

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Speaker 1: It feels like she maybe was having some ideas as

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Speaker 1: somebody who's gone down many spiritual a rabbit hole myself.

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Speaker 1: She met somebody who kind of had like minded thoughts

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Speaker 1: as her, and maybe it just kind of doubled down

280
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Speaker 1: from there. The older man and I believe she married him,

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Speaker 1: and I correct it, she married her.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it wasn't like a marriage marriage Like, it wasn't

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Speaker 3: a real marriage, but in their minds, yes, they.

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Speaker 1: Got yeah bio.

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Speaker 2: The documentary seems to kind of it talks about how

286
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Speaker 2: she had like an acid trip or something, and that,

287
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Speaker 2: I mean, we could probably theorize until the end of time,

288
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Speaker 2: and obviously we won't ever know the answer. But it's

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Speaker 2: such a crazy thing to do, to just walk out

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Speaker 2: on your family in the middle of dinner, to the

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Speaker 2: point where everyone's like, wait, where'd she go? I thought

292
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Speaker 2: she was just in the bathrooms. That's a very extreme behavior.

293
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Speaker 2: Do you remember that night?

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Speaker 3: I don't. I'm not sure that I was there. It's

295
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,600
Speaker 3: possible I was with my grandma that raised me, So

296
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Speaker 3: I don't think I was there that night.

297
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Speaker 2: Got it? And do you remember your feelings after? Do

298
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,080
Speaker 2: you like what was sort of your sense of what

299
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Speaker 2: had happened?

300
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Speaker 3: So no one really like told me. No one came

301
00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,240
Speaker 3: up to me and was like my brother's dad did

302
00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,080
Speaker 3: for him, you know, no one came up to me

303
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,000
Speaker 3: and they were like, hey, like, your mom left and

304
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,720
Speaker 3: she's not coming back. No one did that. It was

305
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,600
Speaker 3: kind of one day she left and no one told me,

306
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,720
Speaker 3: and I just kind of figured out along the way

307
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:40,000
Speaker 3: that she wasn't coming back. And I spent literally years

308
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,920
Speaker 3: and years and years trying to actually find her because

309
00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,920
Speaker 3: no one was giving me information, and I was literally

310
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Speaker 3: just left in the dark. And I'm not sure why

311
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Speaker 3: I was left in the dark. I've never really asked

312
00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,160
Speaker 3: that question before, but yeah, as far as I can remember,

313
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:59,160
Speaker 3: no one told me. And I would spend my lunches

314
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,040
Speaker 3: with my friend at school just telling them like, hey,

315
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Speaker 3: I'm trying to find my mom, like can you help

316
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,480
Speaker 3: me do this? Can you look up her name? I

317
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,600
Speaker 3: don't remember her middle name, be asking everyone like what's

318
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,320
Speaker 3: her middle name? What's her actual last name? Right now?

319
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Speaker 3: Like what's going on? And no one was giving me

320
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:21,000
Speaker 3: any types of answers until my brother actually told me

321
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Speaker 3: what was going on. And I think I was thirteen

322
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:28,000
Speaker 3: when that happened, and he gave me her email to

323
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,400
Speaker 3: email her so you can see in the documentary like

324
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:32,840
Speaker 3: that email that pops up, It was a very angry

325
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,000
Speaker 3: email and I don't regret sending it.

326
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Speaker 2: Can you explain what the email, what the gist of

327
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Speaker 2: it was.

328
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,120
Speaker 3: It was kind of just like I can't believe you

329
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Speaker 3: would ever do this. I can't believe you would leave.

330
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Speaker 3: I don't understand you did me so wrong, Like I

331
00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,440
Speaker 3: could have had a mom growing up and you didn't

332
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,400
Speaker 3: even give me that option, and just stuff like that.

333
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,960
Speaker 3: It was. It was an intense email for a thirteen

334
00:15:58,040 --> 00:15:58,840
Speaker 3: year old to send.

335
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Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's awesome that you sent that.

336
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,800
Speaker 2: You like stood up for yourself and basically said I

337
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,520
Speaker 2: deserve better behavior for my mother, which you absolutely did.

338
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,320
Speaker 1: And aren't family dynamics just so strange, like the things

339
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,800
Speaker 1: we stay quiet about and just don't talk about. And

340
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,440
Speaker 1: it's like the things in families where it's just nobody

341
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,560
Speaker 1: is like you're like, to this day, I still don't

342
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,280
Speaker 1: really know why nobody told me and and I have

343
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,160
Speaker 1: things like that and my it's just so strange, like

344
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,720
Speaker 1: family secrets, family tiptoeing.

345
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Speaker 2: These are the things we do not yeah.

346
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, always always a little family cult inside of all cults,

347
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:34,960
Speaker 1: you know, it's always some good times.

348
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, So when your brother tells you about her, first

349
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:39,880
Speaker 2: of all, how did he know what was happening.

350
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,880
Speaker 3: He did a lot more in depth research than I

351
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:48,280
Speaker 3: could have done. So he found her YouTube channel and

352
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:52,160
Speaker 3: sent it to me too. And at the time it

353
00:16:52,320 --> 00:17:00,440
Speaker 3: was first contact group Starlight something, and then changed their

354
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:05,040
Speaker 3: name to Love as One. And you know, whenever he

355
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,840
Speaker 3: did tell me about it, I was in shock. I

356
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:12,320
Speaker 3: couldn't believe my ears. I was like, is this actually

357
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,359
Speaker 3: my life right now? Is this actually what my my mother,

358
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,840
Speaker 3: the woman who gave birth to me, is doing right now?

359
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:24,080
Speaker 3: It just it was just absolutely crazy to me. And

360
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,960
Speaker 3: I went on this like spiral of trying to find

361
00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:32,280
Speaker 3: everything out and we found her Skype or I did personally,

362
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:36,080
Speaker 3: and I sent it to my family, but I, you know,

363
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,560
Speaker 3: reached out to her on there, and I also had

364
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,760
Speaker 3: her phone numbers. So it was the first time in

365
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,440
Speaker 3: almost seven years that I had actual contact with her.

366
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,879
Speaker 3: And the whole time when we were on the phone,

367
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:52,600
Speaker 3: it was Maddie like, you're the love of my life.

368
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,120
Speaker 3: I never wanted to do you wrong, but here's what's happening.

369
00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,399
Speaker 3: And she would tell me all this stuff that I

370
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:04,959
Speaker 3: just didn't none understand about the Galactics and Robin Williams.

371
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,240
Speaker 3: And I also told her at the time my grandfather

372
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,760
Speaker 3: I had just passed, which was her stepdad, And so

373
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,840
Speaker 3: I told her, and she blatantly just comes out said

374
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,439
Speaker 3: I already knew he came to me in a dream.

375
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,040
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, okay, that's a little odd.

376
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,719
Speaker 3: So I probably just wasn't the first person to tell her,

377
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:24,800
Speaker 3: and she didn't want to tell me that she it

378
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,720
Speaker 3: just it sounded very off when she was talking to

379
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,920
Speaker 3: me about it. Nothing sounded real. It sounded like a delusion.

380
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,639
Speaker 2: Basically, when you found that YouTube channel for any listeners

381
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,080
Speaker 2: who haven't seen the doc yet, when you found the

382
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,200
Speaker 2: YouTube channel, what did you see, Like, what was sort

383
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,920
Speaker 2: of your understanding of her, of what she believed in

384
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:44,200
Speaker 2: what she was telling people.

385
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,800
Speaker 3: Still to this day, I really don't understand what she

386
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,680
Speaker 3: was believing in and.

387
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,360
Speaker 2: What she seemed to believe. Yeah, right, right.

388
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:59,560
Speaker 3: I she loved attention, you know, she has always been

389
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,760
Speaker 3: like that. I'm the same way. I do love attention

390
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:09,679
Speaker 3: as well, but she right, she took it in a

391
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:15,800
Speaker 3: different direction than what was intended, I guess, and In

392
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,159
Speaker 3: the documentary it just went They talk about how it

393
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,520
Speaker 3: just went too far, she got too far into it

394
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:27,480
Speaker 3: and she couldn't go back. But wanting she was believing

395
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:34,160
Speaker 3: in these galactic starships that were so basically the universe,

396
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:38,840
Speaker 3: aliens stuff like that is what I gathered. That she

397
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:45,000
Speaker 3: was receiving these powers, these mind powers to be able

398
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:51,080
Speaker 3: to heal the community. And she also thought that she

399
00:19:51,480 --> 00:20:01,919
Speaker 3: was reincarnated from all these celebrities, public figures, religion, just aspects,

400
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:03,440
Speaker 3: you know.

401
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 2: And who were dead. Right, So it was Robin William Yeah,

402
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:10,320
Speaker 2: was the big one.

403
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 3: Marilyn Monroe.

404
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's almost like she just poured a little bit

405
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 1: of a bunch of different stuff in a pot and

406
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:19,240
Speaker 1: mixed it all up.

407
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's yeah, pretty much what she did.

408
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seemed like a lot of quan On beliefs

409
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,960
Speaker 2: as well, Like they had a collage of all of

410
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,800
Speaker 2: the different galactics and all of them are deet except

411
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,919
Speaker 2: for Trump. There were a lot of yea Trump oriented beliefs,

412
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,880
Speaker 2: some anti Semitic conspiracy theories in there as well. Yeah,

413
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,120
Speaker 2: but basically it's like it's new Age. It's a lot

414
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 2: of new Age stuff. It's a lot of conspiracy theory stuff.

415
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,439
Speaker 2: And she is the mother God is how she was

416
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,119
Speaker 2: presenting it. She is actual God on earth, the female version.

417
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,359
Speaker 3: Yes, that's exactly what she was believing. And it didn't

418
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 3: help that everyone was literally just pumping her brain with

419
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 3: all this ego. You know that, That's all it was,

420
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,960
Speaker 3: was a big ego pump. I guess you could say

421
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 3: her followers deeply loved her, like deeply. It was almost

422
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,200
Speaker 3: like has some right, Yeah, she's as They don't reach

423
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 3: out to me or anything at all, but there are

424
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,120
Speaker 3: some that are. They loved her. I absolutely loved her,

425
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,359
Speaker 3: and it was almost like an addiction or an obsession

426
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 3: of how much they loved this woman. And it was

427
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 3: very uncomfortable to me because I didn't receive that type

428
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:40,399
Speaker 3: of love.

429
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

430
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 1: I just thought of that mother God, You're like, you're

431
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 1: my mother.

432
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're literally calling her mom over and over again.

433
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,199
Speaker 2: In the documentary Is That Pain? Did you watch? Did

434
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 2: you like watch the whole thing?

435
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 3: Yeah? I've seen it multiple times, reeling in all the

436
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,920
Speaker 3: different types of information that I actually didn't know before filming.

437
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,639
Speaker 2: Just to kind of get people up to speed on

438
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 2: what Amy was actually doing during this time when she

439
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 2: wasn't being an actual mother to her children. She left

440
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 2: her kids. She started telling people she's mother God. She

441
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 2: starts an online presence, selling these spiritual sessions and doing

442
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 2: this live streaming, which I don't even really fully understand

443
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 2: how that all came together. But she starts attracting these

444
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 2: followers who help her revamp the website and build her

445
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 2: social media presence, and that presence grows, and then eventually

446
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 2: some of these followers are told to come you with

447
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 2: her in person. So now she has this in person

448
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 2: cult who really genuinely believe that she is God, and

449
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,399
Speaker 2: everything that she says goes and you kind of can see.

450
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 2: And the docu series, because so much of it was filmed,

451
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,239
Speaker 2: you can see how much the wildest demands or the

452
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 2: weirdest demands, they will find a justification for it. There's

453
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 2: a reason why it's good for them, Why it's a lesson,

454
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 2: It's God's will. Yeah, I mean, it's these people who

455
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 2: seem like otherwise normal people. Most of them, the way

456
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 2: they talk just seems like someone you would meet on

457
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 2: the street. They fell down this like Amy Carlson rabbit hole.

458
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 2: And then the other element that was happening was that

459
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,160
Speaker 2: when she would get a romantic partner, that person would

460
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 2: become father God to compliment her as the mother God. Right,

461
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 2: So when you started to get in touch with her

462
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 2: finally after all this time, how often were you guys communicating?

463
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 3: It was once a month or so on every few months.

464
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 3: At the time, I just kind of took into consideration

465
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 3: what she was doing. I was trying to build a

466
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 3: relationship with my mom, so I didn't want to come

467
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 3: at her in a negative way, and so I tried

468
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 3: my best to have the most normal conversations I could

469
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 3: with her. And you know, you could tell from the

470
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 3: Skuye messages I was we were texting more often than

471
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 3: we would like talk on the phone or anything. And

472
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 3: you could tell if she was actually talking to me

473
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 3: because in her when she would send her texts, it

474
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 3: would be in all caps, and like her assistant, if

475
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 3: it was her assistant texting me, it would be in

476
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 3: lower case. So that's how you could tell kind of

477
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 3: who was talking to me at the time. You can

478
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 3: also tell with the words that were being said. I'm

479
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 3: not sure if she would tell her assistant kind of

480
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 3: what to say or if her assistant was just trying

481
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 3: to keep like me a secret in some type of way,

482
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 3: so I'm not sure, but I told her a lot

483
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 3: of things. I told her kind of what was going

484
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 3: on in my life at the time because I wanted

485
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 3: her to be proud of me. She would send me

486
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 3: a happy Birthday text every year for my birthday, and

487
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 3: this kind of went on for a good five years

488
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 3: where I would talk to her from time to time,

489
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 3: she would send me a birthday text and it would

490
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 3: just kind of go on about our day. But at

491
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 3: the time, I mean, like it seemed normal, you know,

492
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 3: over text. But if I were to actually go in

493
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 3: depth with her in a conversation, it wasn't normal anymore.

494
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 3: It was her religion that she would talk about.

495
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: Or was it gettings? Was it getting progressively weirder? Did

496
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: you notice that at all?

497
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 3: Or no? I don't think I talked to her that

498
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 3: much to really notice if it was getting like that.

499
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 3: I really tried to keep my distance from her because

500
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 3: she used to want to get me to come visit

501
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 3: her and come be in the cult with her, and

502
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 3: I just I didn't want anything to do with it.

503
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 3: I didn't agree with anything that she was saying, so

504
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 3: why would I you know, of course, I want to

505
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 3: see you, but you can come see me, you know,

506
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 3: if you really want to see me. It goes both ways.

507
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 3: So I think never did.

508
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 2: Thank goodness you didn't. Yeah, yeah, I mean I could

509
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 2: see it.

510
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 3: You know.

511
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 2: When I was thirteen, I believed in a prophet and

512
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,479
Speaker 2: I've found these letters and I just instantly believed it.

513
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 2: Like you're you know, you're so I mean, not that

514
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 2: you're so lucky, but I'm just glad that you weren't

515
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 2: influenced by the fact that you wanted to have a

516
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 2: mother to actually go and be in that group, because

517
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 2: I can't imagine that would have gone very well.

518
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't imagine what would have happened. If I

519
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 3: ever showed up one day, I probably wouldn't have came

520
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 3: back back.

521
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: No, I don't think you had a scary thing. Yeah.

522
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: One of the scariest things about her followers is that

523
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: sometimes she seems to like come to a little bit

524
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: and be like, maybe I'm not Mother God, and they're like, no,

525
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: you are, You're for sure, for sure, for sure, for

526
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,479
Speaker 1: sure are Yeah, Like I've never seen anything like that before.

527
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: And I can't even imagine if they then had Mother

528
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: God's daughter, what magical powers, they would my project.

529
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 2: Onto you, especially so young. Yeah, yeah, it's very scary.

530
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 3: So my she actually believed my little brother was going

531
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 3: to be like the next whatever in her sequence. Yeah.

532
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 3: So he had some type of special energy I guess

533
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 3: coming off of him, and she really thought that he

534
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 3: was going to do something with it one day. But

535
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 3: in reality, I'm probably the most spiritual out of the siblings,

536
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 3: and I believe in like energies and stuff like that,

537
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 3: but it's not how she believed it at all.

538
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 2: Did your brother ever see her in person?

539
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 3: No, he was too little and he doesn't have any

540
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 3: memories with her whatsoever, nor does actually really care for it.

541
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 3: My little brother, Yeah, so me and my older brother

542
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 3: kind of had more of a relationship with her than

543
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 3: he did, and he never was even interested in pursuing

544
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 3: a relationship with her.

545
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: Were you kind of offended that she was choosing him

546
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: instead of you even though you didn't want to go.

547
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 3: A little bit? Honestly, a little bit, And I think

548
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 3: it's just you know, big sister energy.

549
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. So to just kind of again recap what we

550
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 2: see in the dock, just for anyone who hasn't watched it.

551
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 2: So they are these different father gods and then this

552
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 2: sort of final father god comes into the picture. She

553
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,719
Speaker 2: had had a different father god aka just like a

554
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,959
Speaker 2: boyfriend or whatever, and he was like, maybe there's another

555
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 2: one instead in addition to me. So this new guy

556
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 2: comes in Jason, who is this man with the criminal history, handsome,

557
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 2: clearly unhinged.

558
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a complete psychopath.

559
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 3: Continue absolutely, yeah, absolutely, a major psycho bath.

560
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 2: It seems like there's this general sense that like he's

561
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 2: the one who kind of really led to her demise.

562
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 2: Do you have any opinions on that, having kind of

563
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 2: knowing what you know now?

564
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 3: You know, Uh, after I watched the documentary, I really

565
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 3: was irritated and pissed off about the whole situation because I,

566
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 3: you know, she probably would have been alive today if

567
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 3: he never came into the picture. And he even says

568
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 3: it in the documentary, I killed bother God, straight up

569
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 3: that's what he says. So yeah, the fact that he

570
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 3: can admit it really just took a toll on me.

571
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 4: And yeah, because he's like he was like smoking math

572
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 4: right mm hmm, and just taking her into the deep

573
00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 4: like deepest depths of she's already and the very precarious

574
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 4: spot mentally and he's adding like meth to it.

575
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: Wow, and yeah, yeah.

576
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 2: And she had a drinking problem and it seemed like

577
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 2: he really enabled and worsened that. It seems like honestly

578
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 2: everybody did. And then you know, he's it sounds like

579
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 2: he would be like yelling or verbally abusive, and then

580
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: she just started going down this darker and darker path.

581
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

582
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 2: I wrote a quote down of one of her followers

583
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 2: of a clip that they show from that time where

584
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 2: one of our followers literally says, we're transitioning out of

585
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 2: needing sleep and food. So it just like became so dangerous.

586
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 3: So dangerous. It was a very dangerous culte to be in,

587
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 3: that is for sure, especially towards the end. Like I'm

588
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 3: in the beginning, I feel like it was very innocent,

589
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 3: but then it started to take a turn, like you said,

590
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,239
Speaker 3: into something I can't even explain it. It was so

591
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 3: horrible to even imagine what these people were going through.

592
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, they keep saying it's Robin Willie, the spirit of

593
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 2: Robin Williams that's saying this needs to happen. I wonder

594
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 2: if any of those people will ever wake up, because

595
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 2: if they do, I can't imagine the like pain that

596
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 2: they're going to be in over what over the reality

597
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 2: of the situation.

598
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: It's actually shocking that this didn't become more dangerous. Like

599
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: I'm surprised it didn't end in a Heaven's Gate or

600
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: a Jonestown kind of way. Yeah, it's uh, it's really

601
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: scary because the people there fully believe completely.

602
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 2: I mean to the point where they're they're appearing in

603
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 2: the documentary like still defending everything and.

604
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: Admitting to basically a murder. Yeah yeah, like that's how

605
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,479
Speaker 1: much they believe it. They're yeah, yeah, So anyway, then

606
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: we uh, you know, said yeah, we won't give you

607
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: food and blah blah, and you're like, what the hell

608
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: is Okay, let's talk about the coloidal sleveler over.

609
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Whenever I found out about that, whenever,

610
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 3: you know, I saw pictures of her, especially seeing her

611
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 3: on Doctor Phil because my family didn't tell me that

612
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 3: was happening until like two weeks before that, I was

613
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 3: okay to ask. And yeah, so seeing her look the

614
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 3: way she did, she was almost you know, leaning towards

615
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 3: being purple, and then you would see at the end

616
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 3: of the documentary how actually purple she was and it

617
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 3: was insane to see her like that. It was unrecognizable

618
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 3: because if you look at pictures from when she was young,

619
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 3: my age, she was beautiful, she had gorgeous hair, a

620
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 3: gorgeous face, and then you look at her, yes, absolutely,

621
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 3: you look at her going through these years while she's

622
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 3: in this hole, and she just is unrecognizable. I don't

623
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 3: recognize her anymore as my mom. Yeah, that was probably

624
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 3: the hardest part, was seeing her the way that she

625
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 3: was portrayed on the documentary. Yeah.

626
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 2: I can't imagine how hard that is, because, like you know,

627
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 2: even when just someone is sick for normal like human reasons,

628
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 2: you know, as people get older or whatever, like, watching

629
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 2: that transition is so hard. It seems so much more

630
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 2: painful when you know that it's coming from them, in

631
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 2: this community that they created.

632
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

633
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah.

634
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 2: And for anyone who doesn't know what cloidal silver is,

635
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 2: it's like a supplement that New Age is commonly promoted

636
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 2: by New Age types of people. If you take too

637
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 2: much of it, it can damage your liver and also

638
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 2: turn your skin blue. So that was something they were

639
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 2: taking a lot of and kind of using it as

640
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 2: a cure all and also selling to people on the internet.

641
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were using it more so it was it

642
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 3: was actually used back in the day before chemotherapy was

643
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 3: made as a chemotherapy for cancer and everything. Oh but

644
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 3: that's kind of how Yeah, interesting and interesting stuff for sure,

645
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 3: But it's definitely taken in accumulus amounts as she was taking.

646
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 3: It is detrimental to your body.

647
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah. And you know when you're drinking that

648
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 2: much and then also doing taking an additional thing that's

649
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 2: additionally harming your liver and your body. I mean, that's

650
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 2: you're just poisoning yourself. Basically. Towards the end, she would

651
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 2: maybe say should I go to the hospital, And then

652
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 2: one of her followers said, but then the what are

653
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 2: they called the being the galactic, said no she shouldn't.

654
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 2: Do you think that that means that your mom was

655
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 2: saying that, no she shouldn't, or do you think that

656
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 2: means the followers were saying no she shouldn't.

657
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 3: Oh, definitely the followers. I believe my mom actually like

658
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 3: woke up in the end and no one was listening

659
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 3: to her. Oh, so it is. It is. It's so horrible,

660
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 3: and the fact that none of them got convicted for

661
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 3: anything charge has dropped nothing so there's like I get

662
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 3: no closure.

663
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 2: Basically, yeah, so there was a criminal case that was brought.

664
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 3: What happened exactly, I am not super super sure. I

665
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 3: was listening to the trial and everything everyone was because

666
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 3: it was a religious act. Basically, all charges got dropped.

667
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Yeah, I think that's what happened. Don't

668
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 3: quote me on it. I think that's what happened. But yeah,

669
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 3: I listened to the trial when it was happening, and

670
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 3: I just continued each inmatee that they would bring bring

671
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 3: in charges dropped, charges dropped, charges drop.

672
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 2: And that was okay, correct me if I'm wrong. I

673
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 2: feel like I have a vague memory of reading about

674
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 2: it and seeing that that was maybe because it was

675
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 2: more about what they what they did after she died

676
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: as a ritual with her body. Was was there a

677
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 2: case about how she was not given treatment or taken

678
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 2: to the hospital before she died?

679
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 3: No? Nothing, Wow, that's yeah. So it was all on film.

680
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 3: You know what they were doing, Every single thing that

681
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 3: they did day to day, all on film. That's what

682
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 3: she wanted. She wanted people to basically like film her

683
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 3: life like a reality TV show, and I think she

684
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 3: did it in the wrong way. Honestly, she wanted this

685
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 3: famous aspect and she got it in a completely different

686
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 3: way than what normal people would do.

687
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 2: Right, So, I mean that's just like so fucking wild that.

688
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 2: I mean, there is they literally say on camera openly

689
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 2: like this alcohol is her medicine, she needs her medicine.

690
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 2: Here we are.

691
00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: Then it goes into what we always are thinking about.

692
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: It's like, how responsible are you after your brainwashed?

693
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, for sure that's a valid question, but

694
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 2: I mean in terms of like leading to someone's death, Yeah,

695
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 2: I know it, opening investigation seems like the minimum for

696
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 2: sure response.

697
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: You know, it's such a disaster, perfect storm of just wildness.

698
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,879
Speaker 1: It's truly one of the craziest stories I've ever seen

699
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:22,760
Speaker 1: in my entire life.

700
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 5: Hello, I'm Robbia Jaudhry. I invite you to join me

701
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,280
Speaker 5: every Tuesday for new episodes of Nighty Night Bedtime Stories

702
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 5: to keep you awake now on podcast one. This new

703
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 5: incarnation of Nighty Night is an anthology of stories that

704
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 5: bring to life classic horror stories, some you're definitely familiar

705
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 5: with and others that you'll be hearing for the first time.

706
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 5: Join me as I tuck you into bed with stories

707
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,399
Speaker 5: that will leave you sleepless all night long. Get new

708
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 5: episodes of Nighty Night every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts.

709
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 2: I want to go back in time a little bit,

710
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 2: Doctor Phil. There was this period where your grandma and

711
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 2: your aunt were kind of trying to get her help.

712
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 2: You said, nobody told you about Doctor Phil till after.

713
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 2: Did they talk to you about it?

714
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,919
Speaker 3: Yeah? After they did talk to me a little bit after. Yeah,

715
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 3: for sure they talked to me about it, and you know,

716
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 3: they basically said, and even the documentary says this, They

717
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 3: told me kind of that he didn't do anything. Basically,

718
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 3: it was all a ploy. So at first, like years ago,

719
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 3: we reached out and he was like, nah, I'm not

720
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 3: about it, this is a good story for me. I

721
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 3: don't want to work with you. And then they kind

722
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,280
Speaker 3: of found out about my mom and kind of reached

723
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 3: out to us, and it kind of just went from there.

724
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 3: All the Doctor Phil episodes were were for clout basically,

725
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 3: for him to get this crazy story that no one's

726
00:38:55,880 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 3: gotten before and bash everyone one on live TV. I

727
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 3: you know, I.

728
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 2: Hate Doctor Phil. Can I just say I think he

729
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:08,320
Speaker 2: is the fucking.

730
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: Worst he who exploited So yeah, he and your mom's

731
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: so excited because she thought she was going to share

732
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: this message through Oprah and then she's like, oh my god,

733
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,280
Speaker 1: it's actually going to be doctor Phil that I'm sharing

734
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 1: the message through. Of course, like Universe are so funny,

735
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: and so she's excited thinking that this is going to

736
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: be her way to spread the galaxy to everybody's TV.

737
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: And meanwhile they're just looking forward to her looking like

738
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: an asshole.

739
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 2: But and your grandma and your and your aunt are thinking, Okay,

740
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 2: maybe they're going to actually get her help. Maybe she

741
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 2: can actually you know, get the psychiatric care that she needs.

742
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 2: But none of that happened, right, No, nothing.

743
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 3: They didn't even offer like therapy to the family afterwards.

744
00:39:55,120 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 3: Nothing we got nothing. So going was basically like a

745
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 3: waste of time.

746
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it sent her downward two. I mean, it

747
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,919
Speaker 1: did not do her any favors. He did not help

748
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 1: her whatsoever. What was her reaction to when she saw

749
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: the show?

750
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 3: My mom's I don't know how she reacted. Per Se

751
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 3: doesn't really say they didn't. I didn't really know anything

752
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 3: about it. She didn't really talk about it. I know

753
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 3: she was angry and it was like a shock for her.

754
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 3: Of what doctor Phil actually was talking about on the show.

755
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 3: She was she was basically caught in a trap, is

756
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 3: what happened, because she didn't know about you know, my

757
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 3: family going and confronting her about everything. And yeah, so

758
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,760
Speaker 3: she was pissed, and you can see a clip after

759
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 3: of her actually pissed about the whole thing and that

760
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,320
Speaker 3: she was she was she pelpetry by us, her family,

761
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 3: when that wasn't supposed to be the case of all.

762
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 3: It was supposed to be we want you back in

763
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 3: the family where we want you to come back, We

764
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 3: want to get you help, so please let us help you.

765
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 3: But doctor Phil turned it into entertainment. Yeah, and it's

766
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 3: really fucked up. Yeah, it's fucked up what he did,

767
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 3: and people are promoting it and it's ridiculous.

768
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:27,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seemed like your family was just like trying anything,

769
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 2: Like we don't know, she's not going to come back

770
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 2: home of her own accord. She's like too deep in

771
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 2: this community and belief and like, so maybe someone on

772
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 2: the outside, you know, someone putting our on TV will

773
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 2: be helpful, Like they're just looking for anything, right, because

774
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 2: nothing else has worked at that point exactly.

775
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were also just trying to get her story

776
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 3: out there for anyone who would listen to help her.

777
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 3: But everyone, it wasn't taken seriously. You know, the situation

778
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 3: was taken in a very lighthearted way. And yeah, I

779
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 3: mean I wish we could have gotten the help because

780
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 3: that's what all I wanted was for my mom to

781
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 3: come back home. Ever since I was she left, That's

782
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 3: all I wanted was for her to come back home,

783
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 3: because what you know, daughter wouldn't want that. Even though

784
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,720
Speaker 3: I was raised by amazing people, I still wanted someone

785
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 3: to call mom. And I was jealous growing up of

786
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 3: all these kids that could call, you know, like hey Mom,

787
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 3: what's up? Hey Dad, how's it going. You know, I

788
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 3: didn't have that growing at all.

789
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 2: Oh I can just imagine how helpless that's got to

790
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 2: make you feel and your family like yeah, you know.

791
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 2: The closest I can kind of relate to it is

792
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 2: like loving someone because I have a loved one who's

793
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 2: struggled with addiction and it is now totally disrupted their being,

794
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 2: their existence because now they have a brain injury. But

795
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 2: you know, the closest I can relate is like watching

796
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 2: someone destroy themselves and you're like, please just come back,

797
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 2: just come back, We'll get you help. And there's just

798
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 2: nothing you can do because they're an adult and you can't,

799
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 2: you know, but it's so painful. It's so painful.

800
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: And then Adam laughing at them, Yeah, can you talk

801
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: to us a little bit about what happened in Hawaii

802
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: because that seemed to be a big part of the point.

803
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 3: It was huge. It was a huge thing because it

804
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 3: was crazy because even the residents of Hawaii knew who

805
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,439
Speaker 3: me and my brothers were. And I was like, oh,

806
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 3: this is a little weird. Yeah, they knew that she

807
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 3: had left us. They knew everything. And I guess because

808
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 3: whenever she came, you know, it was very public. But

809
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 3: she was there in Hawaii and who she was saying

810
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 3: that she was. I can't remember the spirit that she

811
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 3: was trying to portray. But that's what pissed off the

812
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 3: the residence so bad, because they were like, you are

813
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 3: nothing to us, You're nothing but a piece of shit.

814
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 3: You left your kids, you left your husband, you left

815
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 3: everything to do what to be fake? You know that

816
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 3: they were extremely upset and they were throwing, you know,

817
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 3: like they were throwing things at the house that they

818
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 3: were in. They were throwing things at her car that

819
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,959
Speaker 3: she was leaving in whenever she was finally like fed

820
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:43,439
Speaker 3: up and said, okay, fine, I'm leaving, YadA YadA. And

821
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 3: you know, there's signs that the residents were holding up

822
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,479
Speaker 3: that said go back home to Madison, Aiden and Cole.

823
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 1: Wow, damn, that is so so weird.

824
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, they show a clip of that in the doc

825
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 3: humentary and I went white. I went completely white because

826
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 3: I knew nothing about that and I didn't even know

827
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 3: these people knew who we were. So yeah, that's so crazy,

828
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 3: so wild. It was a shock factor for for real.

829
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 2: And they were and they were also upset because she.

830
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 2: It seemed like they were also upset because she It

831
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 2: was sacrileged because she was claiming to be God and

832
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 2: they were like, You're not God. I mean, she was

833
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 2: already really ill at that point, struggling to walk and

834
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 2: you know, continuing to be fed. Loydal Silver.

835
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, going into organ failure, failure, no food. That's what

836
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 3: was happening that entire Yeah.

837
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 1: Wow, it kind of felt like.

838
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 3: Like exactly what was happening.

839
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: Somebody with anorexia and alcoholism like just got a bunch

840
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 1: of people to help them act out. Those two diseases,

841
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 1: like unconsciously, you're not You're not in yet.

842
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 2: It was you in a TikTok said that she left

843
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:58,840
Speaker 2: a man in the woods to die. What was that

844
00:45:58,880 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 2: referring to?

845
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 3: So that was before the Doctor Phil episode. That's how

846
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 3: kind of Doctor Phil found out about everything, because the

847
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 3: sister of that man reached out and was like, these

848
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 3: people need help. I don't really know the whole whole

849
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 3: story about what happened, but from the gist of it,

850
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 3: from what the sister was saying, she had gotten mad

851
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 3: at one of the previous father gods. And I'm not

852
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 3: sure if this actually happened, but this is what I

853
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 3: was told. And she basically put him on a on

854
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,720
Speaker 3: a trip, on a drug trip, and they were having

855
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:47,839
Speaker 3: fun and she was like, hey, follow me here, and

856
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 3: they took him and they left him and he was

857
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 3: naked and he didn't know where he was. He was

858
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 3: tripping on some drug I don't know if those acid

859
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 3: rooms whatever, and stumbled onto a main road naked, and

860
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 3: they took him to the hospital. I did him YadA, YadA, YadA,

861
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 3: And that's kind of how that whole thing went. And

862
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 3: I'm not sure why it wasn't included in the documentary. Wow,

863
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 3: because that's that was kind of like a big turning

864
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:31,280
Speaker 3: point in the whole cold pretty much.

865
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, because what happened after that they went on the

866
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: run or what.

867
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 3: No idea. I think that's probably when they went to

868
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 3: Organ is when that situation happened, So that's kind of

869
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 3: kind of how the timeline went.

870
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: But yeah, once they got to organ, all bets are off.

871
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: They're an organ and it is chaos.

872
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, pretty much.

873
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 2: They've kind of been moving around periodically throughout this whole time.

874
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 3: Right. There was one point I was told when I

875
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 3: was younger that they were in Florida, but no one

876
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 3: mentioned Florida anywhere. So I'm not sure if they actually

877
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 3: had a house in Florida or what, but from not

878
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 3: my knowledge, they had a house in Florida, Colorado, and Oregon.

879
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 3: Those were kind of her three stomping grounds. And yeah,

880
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 3: they would jump everywhere over there, all the weak legal states.

881
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:27,439
Speaker 2: Well that's nice.

882
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: How are they getting the money? How are they getting

883
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 1: the money to fund us?

884
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 3: The stuff that they were selling online, so the Coidal silver,

885
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 3: all of those supplements that they were selling, the live streams.

886
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 3: People would send gifts, people would donate like thousands and

887
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:51,359
Speaker 3: thousands of dollars to her for all the things that

888
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 3: they were doing. And plus she did healing sessions that

889
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 3: she would charge for, so people would come to her

890
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,959
Speaker 3: with like a physical ish and she would kill them

891
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 3: and they would pay her for it. So they were

892
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:10,399
Speaker 3: receiving a humorous amount of money that was being untaxed too.

893
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 3: And I'm not sure how they did not get caught

894
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 3: in anything that they were doing, but yeah, yeah, it

895
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 3: seems like that's kind of how she received all that money.

896
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:25,320
Speaker 2: Like business was really booming for a while there around

897
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 2: the period where everyone kind of was coming to live

898
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 2: with her. Yeah, and then it seems like watching the

899
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 2: doc that that's part of why it was so shocking

900
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 2: when you know, circa Hawaii and after it seems like

901
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 2: people don't like her anymore. And I I have to

902
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 2: imagine that contributed as well, like, yeah, feeling like she'd fallen,

903
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 2: you know.

904
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: I'm grace, Yeah, I mean contributed to the end.

905
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, just her to her unstable state on top of

906
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 2: all the physical stuff that was happening. And yeah, can

907
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,240
Speaker 2: you tell us about the text that she sent you

908
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 2: before she died?

909
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, on Skype? Yeah, So The first thing she sent

910
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 3: me was love you, sweet Angel in Portland to visit Cole,

911
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 3: my brother. Most of the messages Skype deleted, so there

912
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:18,240
Speaker 3: was stuff before that, but I'm not sure how it works,

913
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 3: but it was all deleted whenever I went back to it.

914
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 3: And then she sent me a link to a YouTube video,

915
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 3: so I'm guessing I never clicked on the link, but

916
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 3: I'm guessing it was probably one of her videos that

917
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 3: she did talking about my brother maybe, And then she

918
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 3: sends me, love you happy b Day, our sweet love Angel.

919
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 3: Love you so have a brilliant, love, joy filled day.

920
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 3: And then she explains to me that she remembers going

921
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 3: into labor with me and how intense it was and

922
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 3: that she was hanging onto the rails and she said

923
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 3: I was pleading with you to come out, stubborn Taurus lol.

924
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 3: And then she says, your brother could not wait to

925
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 3: come out. You were like nope, lol. So it was

926
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 3: very weird. The way I think she worded things, I guess,

927
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 3: and how she was talking to me was like she

928
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 3: was on drugs or were drunk all the time, which

929
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 3: she was. So she would send me a lot of emojis.

930
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 3: She would ask me to please contact her as soon

931
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 3: as possible, and then it switches to lowercase, you know.

932
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 3: So all of that above was uppercase. Now it's in

933
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 3: lower So this is the next year after that. This

934
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 3: was twenty eighteen. She said, I love you. Happy be day,

935
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 3: my loving daughter of love. I love you so much,

936
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 3: you know, And I'm looking at these texts and like,

937
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 3: you love me so much, but you're not here. You

938
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 3: were never there for me, right, So it's it's very like,

939
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 3: how can you say you love me so much, call

940
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 3: me all these things and not be there for me

941
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:11,479
Speaker 3: as a mom? You left me, you know. So I

942
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,839
Speaker 3: was pissed. I didn't answer her for three years. Three

943
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 3: years I didn't answer her, and if she sent it

944
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 3: again the next.

945
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 2: Year, she was so she would still text you for

946
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 2: those years.

947
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 3: It was mostly just a happy birthday text, is what

948
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:26,280
Speaker 3: I would receive.

949
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 2: I mean, those Yeah, that's got to be just such

950
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 2: emotional whiplash, because like they sound so loving, they sound

951
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 2: like someone who really cares about you, and you're like,

952
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 2: but you're not here. This is like, yeah, what does

953
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,320
Speaker 2: this actually mean? This means nothing? Right, So I totally

954
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 2: understand why I felt that way.

955
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 3: It was a very confusing time as a teenager because

956
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 3: I was just seventeen at the time, just got my license,

957
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 3: you know. It was wild, wild, wild. Oh.

958
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 2: But yeah, how did you get the news that she

959
00:52:59,000 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 2: had died?

960
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 3: So my aunt, Chelsea, I was I will never forget.

961
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 3: I was sitting at a gas station. I'm receiving a

962
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 3: call from my aunt Chelsea, and she tells me, she said, hey,

963
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 3: just got a call from Colorado PD or whoever was

964
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 3: on the case at the time, and they said that

965
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 3: it is possible that my mother is dead. And I

966
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 3: said possible in what way? Because of how decomposed her

967
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 3: body was, they couldn't get a perfect read on who

968
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 3: she was, you know, and she was basically mummified, you know,

969
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 3: like turning a decomposed body, that's what That's what it was.

970
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 3: And she tells me, and out of nowhere, I just

971
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 3: laughed because I couldn't believe it. I'm in shock. I

972
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:05,280
Speaker 3: didn't really know how to react, and I'm like, you're lying.

973
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 3: You can't you can't be telling me this right now.

974
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 3: She's not actually dead, you know. I was very confused. Yeah,

975
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 3: And she was trying to tell me as fast as

976
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 3: she could before it got out into the media because

977
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:22,280
Speaker 3: it was huge that that whole thing was so huge,

978
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 3: it went war worldwide. Everyone around the world was talking

979
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:26,919
Speaker 3: about it at the time.

980
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were talking about it.

981
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's crazy. Who who hears about something

982
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 3: like that that did. It doesn't happen every day, and

983
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,280
Speaker 3: it's I don't think something like that has ever happened

984
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 3: in a lifetime, you know.

985
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 1: I've certainly never before. Yeah. Right, they found her where again.

986
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 3: She was in their new house that they had that

987
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 3: they had that so she died in that hotel in Oregon,

988
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 3: and then they drove her body all the way back

989
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 3: to Colorado to the place that they lived, made her

990
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 3: shrine out of her in her bedroom, wrapped her in

991
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 3: a sleeping bag, and at Christmas lights, and yeah, just

992
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 3: left her there because.

993
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,760
Speaker 1: They thought she was gonna not go alive, right.

994
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,760
Speaker 3: They did. That's what they thought was going to happen.

995
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 3: And then they were very confused home white and didn't

996
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 3: because that's what she was saying. She was like, she

997
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 3: was saying all these things about how she needs to

998
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 3: go up and serve and then she'll be back. You know,

999
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 3: never happened, obviously, because that whole religion is not real thing.

1000
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 2: The video of that time period of the followers is

1001
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 2: so I don't have a better word than crazy, but

1002
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:48,799
Speaker 2: because they you can just see them clinging to this

1003
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,399
Speaker 2: belief so hard when you could see that, like, I've

1004
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 2: never seen cognitive dissonance so strongly in action on video

1005
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 2: like that before, because they are literally like her body's

1006
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 2: still warm. Yeah, they're doing some like there's electricity coming

1007
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 2: off of the thing. They bring her to the woods

1008
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:09,240
Speaker 2: and they're like, Okay, now it's time for you to ascend,

1009
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 2: like okay, wake up. Yeah, and of course that doesn't

1010
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 2: happen because we live in real life. And yeah, I mean, like,

1011
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 2: what was it like for you watching that, because for

1012
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 2: like not knowing her at all, I was fucking floored

1013
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 2: and it was it's just so like, tell us about

1014
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:27,880
Speaker 2: that experience.

1015
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,320
Speaker 3: So watching it for the first time, it was definitely

1016
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 3: super hard because I hadn't the producer at the time.

1017
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:38,479
Speaker 3: She was telling me like, you know these I got

1018
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 3: to see all the episodes before it aired on TV

1019
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 3: to make sure that there was nothing that needed to

1020
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 3: be taken out, nothing that needed to be edited, stuff

1021
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 3: like that, So it was really hard. I was very angry.

1022
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 3: I was I think I had a breakdown after that episode,

1023
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 3: because watching your own parent deteriorate and that rapid of

1024
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 3: a rate is very traumatizing, especially when you're sitting there

1025
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 3: and you can do absolutely nothing about it. Yeah, so

1026
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 3: that was the hardest thing for me, and it was

1027
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 3: hard for a long time, and you know, I for

1028
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 3: after that a long time after that they I thought

1029
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 3: I could have done more, you know, I had this

1030
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 3: thought in my head that if I went to her,

1031
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 3: if I reached out to her more, if I did

1032
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 3: all these things in order to be a good daughter

1033
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 3: to her, she probably would still be here. You know,

1034
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 3: I could have done something she wished, she wouldn't be dead.

1035
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 3: But the reality of that situation was that I couldn't

1036
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 3: do anything. I literally didn't have a choice but to

1037
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 3: watch her die. And yeah, so that was extremely hard

1038
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 3: for me to go through.

1039
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry, and I don't I don't it's okay,

1040
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 2: I mean, it's I don't wish anyone go through a

1041
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 2: situation like that, Yeah, I mean, also, just the lack

1042
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 2: of respect that they showed, Like, Yeah, there's so many

1043
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 2: layers of why that I can't imagine how hard all

1044
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 2: of it, yeah is.

1045
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, the only word is surreal. For me, it just

1046
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:29,479
Speaker 1: feels like a bad dream. Yeah yeah, I again, we yeah,

1047
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 1: this this experience is just so crazy, Maddie. It's unbelievable.

1048
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. That's all I can say is how how

1049
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 3: crazy everything was? Everything? And you know, I look back

1050
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 3: on it and I disassociate from the whole situation. And

1051
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 3: when I'm watching it, I'm watching it as a stranger.

1052
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 3: You know, I in my mind, I don't associate myself

1053
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 3: with that situation at all, because watching it is so

1054
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 3: absolutely insane that you wouldn't think that it would be

1055
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 3: you you know, wow wow.

1056
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 2: I mean, now like theories has come out, you've had

1057
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 2: some time to process, Like how do you kind of

1058
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 2: think about all of it now? And like what I

1059
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 2: don't even totally understand my question. I just want to

1060
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 2: know who you are?

1061
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 1: How are you?

1062
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 3: How are Yeah? I'm okay. Now there's still stuff I'm

1063
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 3: healing from, of course, because that's a big thing to

1064
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:37,919
Speaker 3: heal from, and it's not going to take a month,

1065
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 3: but you know, it's a it's a little but going

1066
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 3: and I'm okay, And you know, I don't blame myself

1067
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:52,760
Speaker 3: or anything that happened anymore. Even though sometimes thoughts crossed

1068
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 3: my mind where it's like, you know, you could have

1069
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 3: done something more, But then I snap back and I'm like,

1070
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 3: you really couldn't. So it's a big healing process, but

1071
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 3: I'm getting through it, for sure.

1072
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:07,960
Speaker 2: Do you have any words of wisdom for anyone who's

1073
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 2: who might be listening and their loved one is in

1074
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 2: a cult of some kind.

1075
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 3: You know, you can't change who they are, You can't

1076
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 3: change what they believe. All you can do is, you know,

1077
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:27,360
Speaker 3: show that you are supporting them from an outlier perspective,

1078
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 3: not what they're doing, but you are supporting their mentality.

1079
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 3: You can't take everything to heart, it's not you. You

1080
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 3: didn't do it to them. But if they ask you

1081
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 3: to be there for them, be there.

1082
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, that's so wise. We have so many

1083
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 2: we have experts come on here and say that very

1084
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 2: thing that like, you have no control over where they are.

1085
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 2: All that you can do is be there and be

1086
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 2: ready for if and when they decide that they're done,

1087
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 2: and that timeline is not in your control at all.

1088
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 2: I meant them where they are and they for them

1089
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:03,440
Speaker 2: as a person. Yeah, yeah, and it sounds like you

1090
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 2: did everything right. It sounds like you did the maximum

1091
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 2: thing that you could have possibly done and somehow still stayed.

1092
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 1: Grounded as a child and didn't end up like I

1093
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 1: don't know, it's it's a miracle. It's unbelievable how strong

1094
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 1: you are, and this perspective is something we've never gotten before.

1095
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for sharing it with us. Yeah,

1096
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 1: it's really an incredibly tragic story, but you are such

1097
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 1: a beacon of light at the end of it.

1098
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1099
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 3: Agree, Yeah, if I try my best, that's for sure.

1100
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 2: If any of her remaining followers who still believe we're listening,

1101
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 2: do you do you have anything you would want them

1102
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 2: to know or hear. You don't have to answer, but

1103
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 2: just if you yeah.

1104
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 3: I would honestly tell them. I'm jealous that you got

1105
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 3: to spend my mother's last days together. I'm jealous.

1106
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 2: Well, Megan's crying.

1107
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 1: It just yeah, if you haven't seen, Yeah, the doctor

1108
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 1: really hard.

1109
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really hard stuff. So but I mean, I'm

1110
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 2: so grateful to you for coming on. It's I think

1111
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 2: it's just like, it's so helpful for anyone who's been

1112
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 2: through some craziness related to colts to hear how normal

1113
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 2: the people who love those people are. And also a

1114
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 2: lot of people come out of cults totally like they're normal,

1115
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 2: you know, when they wake up. So it's it's just

1116
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 2: a it's refreshing to hear you and hear such like

1117
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 2: grounded perspective, like like and said after such a crazy

1118
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 2: fucking thing.

1119
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 3: So thank you for sure.

1120
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 2: And do you would you like to share your social media?

1121
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can definitely follow me on TikTok at Maddie

1122
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:45,280
Speaker 3: Stroud one. That's probably the most thing I am on

1123
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 3: there talking about my mom and everything. And yeah, you

1124
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 3: can also add my Instagram Mattie Stroud eighteen.

1125
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 1: Which I will I will well, thank you, Maddie.

1126
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 2: Unbelievable, unbelievable take in terms of stories. Yeah, we've had

1127
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 2: on here absolutely so I think I know the answer

1128
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 2: to this already. But we've come to the time of

1129
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 2: the episode where I ask you, Megan, if you think

1130
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 2: that you would join this cult? So would you join?

1131
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 2: Love has One?

1132
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 1: I think I would.

1133
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:18,400
Speaker 2: I think you would too.

1134
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it has everything for me. Name it a mother sure,

1135
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 1: love mother figures, psychedelics, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I love alcohol.

1136
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 1: I'm not drinking it right now, but you know, love

1137
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 1: that psychic readings, healings, energy, traveling to weird states with

1138
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 1: a group of people done.

1139
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 2: I totally think that's that's true.

1140
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I you know, I have been in perfect storms

1141
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 1: like this before, where when the leader starts acting erratic enough,

1142
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, you're like I would have left. You know,

1143
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:05,960
Speaker 1: you would have been there, but I would have been there.

1144
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 3: Art.

1145
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, in the first episode, they also just seem

1146
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:10,720
Speaker 2: so happy.

1147
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, which, of.

1148
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 2: Course, is that's how it goes. I mean, right joined

1149
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 2: because it's a good it's it's bringing good things to

1150
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 2: their lives at first. But I like, I'm watching that

1151
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 2: and I'm thinking, like, I want to have a sleepover

1152
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 2: in a house with a bunch of friends who are

1153
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 2: all like minded. I probably wouldn't be like minded with

1154
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 2: this particular group of people because I see the world differently.

1155
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 2: But if there were like that, the equip equivalent of that, but.

1156
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:34,640
Speaker 1: You have like a little like micro like everybody has

1157
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 1: their own little microscopes and like viles.

1158
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:39,800
Speaker 2: Dude, I'd be so into it.

1159
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is.

1160
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 2: My version and like making art, but like with science, yeah, I'd.

1161
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 1: Be so taking art with science.

1162
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 2: I don't know, I like both of them. I like

1163
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 2: art and I like science.

1164
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:54,880
Speaker 1: Okay, can you make science with art? There's the question,

1165
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 1: woo a, maybe I don't know.

1166
01:04:57,880 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 2: Can you? Well, you can make art with science, and

1167
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 2: I know makes science with art. Yes, you can do

1168
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 2: studies of art.

1169
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 1: No listeners, you could, you could?

1170
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 3: All right? Yeah?

1171
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:11,040
Speaker 1: Yeah I would join whatever. I admit it.

1172
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 2: But at least you know yourself. Yeah, I know, and

1173
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 2: you know what you're susceptible to. That's the main thing

1174
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:16,960
Speaker 2: it is.

1175
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:17,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1176
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 1: I would have loved it, but it ended so tragically.

1177
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:25,080
Speaker 1: And wow, I never have seen anything like it, never ever,

1178
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 1: no ever ever have I ever?

1179
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:27,800
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1180
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:30,600
Speaker 1: AnyWho, please rate us five stars.

1181
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 2: Go follow Maddie, Yeah, go follow Maddie if you want

1182
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 2: to hear more from her. She has a lovely TikTok.

1183
01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 1: Yeah she's really cool and as always, remember to follow

1184
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 1: your gut. Watch out forrad flax I Never Ever.

1185
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:51,920
Speaker 2: II by Trust Me as produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby

1186
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 2: Rapp and Steve Delemator.

1187
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 1: With special thanks to Stacy Para.

1188
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 2: And her theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

1189
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram, but trust Me podcast,

1190
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me cultpod, or on TikTok at trust

1191
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 1: Me cult podcast.

1192
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 2: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1193
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Abraham

1194
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:14,040
Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter.

1195
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word.