1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: February two thousand four, Maura Murray empties her bank account, 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: drives four hours from school, crashes her car, and vanishes. 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: Joined the search as an investigative reporter, uncovers new evidence, 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: interrogates new witnesses, traces down new leads in this riveting 5 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: new investigative series, The Disappearance of Maura Murray Saturday's seven 6 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: sixth Central and nine eight Central on Oxygen, the new 7 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: network for crime Climb stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius 8 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: x Him Triumph Channel one thirty two. A chillingly meticulous 9 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: plan put together by Stephen Pattock, which included weapons modified 10 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: into machine guns be fired off and on for somewhere 11 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: between nine and eleven minutes. He was perched high above 12 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: the roof ninety one Harvest Festivals. We finally realized to 13 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: his bullets when and Jason Aldean actually missed the lyrics 14 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: and was looking less and he kind of stopped singing 15 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: that the band was playing, and then he stuck and 16 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: ran off the stage. I turned around and looked at 17 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: my husband and we knelt down on the ground and 18 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: we immediately prayed. It was just amazing to see her 19 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: and kneel down and immedid we start praying, and I 20 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: dealt down with her and started praying as well. It 21 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: sounded like the closest thing I could imagine to be 22 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: in an a war. You're pretty much caged in there. 23 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,479 Speaker 1: There was no way out. The gunshots were reverberating, so 24 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: he couldn't tell where they were coming from. And we 25 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 1: saw boots laying on the ground where people have literally 26 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: ran out of their boots just escaping the situation. Saw 27 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: a guy, a young guy, dropped down the street and 28 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: he just flagged them down. And this young man, his 29 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: name was Eric kept herd call was able to pick 30 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: us up on the street and he was he was 31 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: driving blind into it as well, he didn't know. He 32 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: took us back to our hotel. It was a couple 33 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: of blocks away, and before he left, he said, you know, 34 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: I just I live in that area and I'm going 35 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: to go back and see if I can get some 36 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: more people out of there. That's incredible. Whoever he is, 37 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: God bless him. We actually have his picture. She took 38 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: his picture when we got out of car, because he 39 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: was you send it to me and I'll pay it 40 00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: on crime online. We'll try to find him and saying 41 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: him in the midst of all of the trauma, the 42 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: strown bodies out in the field, littered with trash and 43 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: shoes and fast food rappers, something good, something good has happened. 44 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: We did just that. We found the driver, the mysterious 45 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:29,119 Speaker 1: driver that drove Barry and Josh to safety. I Meanancy Grace, 46 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: this is crime stories. Thank you for being with us, 47 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: with me. That mystery driver we have been searching for, 48 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: Eric Gomez is with us. Barry Adams, She and her 49 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: husband somehow managed to survive the Vegas massacre. Alexas Torres 50 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: Chuck investigative reporter with Radar Online dot Com and death 51 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: scene investigator, Professor forensics at Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott Morgan, 52 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: and of course the Duke, Alan Duke joining me from 53 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: l A but most important with us, you. Thank you 54 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: for being with us. Barry Adams. Can you believe we 55 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: have somehow managed to find Eric Gomez. I cannot believe 56 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: that you found him. That is so amazing. I really 57 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: can't believe it either, Eric Gomez, thanks so much for 58 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,119 Speaker 1: being with us. Eric. You know you're a hero. You 59 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: are a hero. You drove not only Barry and Josh 60 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: to safety, but others as well. Tell me your recollections 61 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: the night of the Vegas shootings. I want to hear 62 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: something good, Eric, before I go into the fact that 63 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: the Vegas shooter has now been sleeping with prostitutes offered 64 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: up by a Vegas casino news. His girlfriend always felt 65 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: nervous and jittery whenever she was around him, according to 66 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: family and friends, the way he mowed down hundreds of people. 67 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: Out of all that, I want to hear something good. 68 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: So tell me your story. Eric Gomez, Absolutely, thank you 69 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: and Nancy for having me. And of course, um, I 70 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: like to say I did very as well. I it 71 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: was a really crazy right, Um. I think I will 72 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: never forget this. Of course, it's something really crazy and unexpected. Um. Absolutely, 73 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: I just recalled, you know, um driving tours um the 74 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 1: street and seeing a bunch of people. I mean I've 75 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: seen thousands of people running towards my car. Of course, 76 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: I was going to freak out. I didn't know what 77 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: to do. Well, have you heard the bullets? Yeah? Did 78 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: you hear anything? I didn't hear anything. I was listening 79 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: to music, you know, commuting to my house. Um, and 80 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: of course I was never overhear or anything. Until I 81 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: saw everybody running towards my car. Um, you know, it 82 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: was like a sci fi movie. What time wasn't What 83 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: was that? I'm sorry? What time was it? Um? I 84 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: believe it was around seven pm. I really can't rea 85 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: all the time. I was just coming to my house. 86 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: It was dark, Yes it is. It was in the dark. 87 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: You're driving them on, listening to music, and you see 88 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: people running toward you, like the apocalypse, running towards your car. 89 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: What happened? Um? Actually, you know, everybody started knocking on 90 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: my windows asking for help, um, and telling me to 91 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: turn around, that there was a shooter. UM. I was 92 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: just speechless and I wasn't shocked for a little bit. 93 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: Then I saw Barry and Jason knocking my way on 94 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: my window to lit them in. I didn't hesitate in 95 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: my car, Eric Mass When you saw everybody running toward you, 96 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: you see Barry and her husband, Josh, What did they 97 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: look like? Uh? They were just petrified, really scared. I 98 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: just remember that he was really, um, you know, scratched 99 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: from her body. Um. They told me that they had to, 100 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: you know, put out defense, and I was just in shock. 101 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: Then what happened? Eric you see her all scratched up 102 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: and blading. Everybody is panicking, mamming on your car. What 103 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: did you do? You know a lot of people have 104 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: just driven off, and I'm not letting a stranger in 105 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: my car. No way go ahead, you know. UM, at 106 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: that point, things so many people. I wasn't able to 107 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: really think who I was going to let inside my 108 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: car because I knew something wrong was happening. Of course, 109 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: in that moment, I was just thinking about my family, 110 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: because I was asking where we're you know, I was asking, um, 111 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: everyone what was going on, and they told me it 112 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: was shooting. They learned they didn't know where it was 113 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: coming from, but it was near the Strip. I lived 114 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: near the Strip. My family lives near the Strip. We 115 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: actually lived in front of the men La Bay. To 116 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: my surprise, I was not even able to get home 117 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: because of all the traffic, of other people running, of 118 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:08,679 Speaker 1: everybody screaming. It was unbearable. Honestly, I when I took 119 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: them to their hotel, the first thing I did was 120 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: to call my mom, call everyone to see if they 121 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: were safe. Um. I saw so many people crying and 122 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: limping and injured. Honestly, I offered so many people to 123 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: use my card to get to their hotels. But some 124 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: of them they're really scared, so they didn't know to 125 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: trust or not. UM. Honestly, I have no words to 126 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: explain this situation. It was something eric that you see people. 127 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: You saw people crying and limping and just were they 128 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: just sitting on the side, what were they doing there? 129 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: Really was just trying to look for a safe place. UM. 130 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: They didn't know where the shooting was coming from, and 131 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: I didn't either, So I was also scared for my life. 132 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: And when you refer to your family, who's your family? 133 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: My family was um actually at the shooting. UM. The 134 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: only thing that I can tell you that we were 135 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: really scared. When I called my aunt, she was the 136 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: one that picked up a phone and she said that 137 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: to not come to the house because there was a 138 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: shooting going on and that they were saved and they 139 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: would try to stay safe, but to not go there 140 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: because I don't know, it's just unexplainable. The feeling is 141 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: still there. Did you ever think that you would see 142 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: or hear from these people again? I honestly didn't know, 143 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:49,839 Speaker 1: not at all. It will never pass in my mind 144 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: that will ever see them again. You know. The last 145 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: words that I remember, Um, I'm very telling me before 146 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: she got out of my car, was that if it 147 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: was okay for her to take a picture of me, 148 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: because she wanted to remember me forever. And she thanked me. 149 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: And I had no no words, of course too to 150 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: say anything to her, but to say goodbye and I 151 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: hope you guys get home safe. When they were in 152 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: your car, Eric Gomez now held as a hero across 153 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: the country. When they were in your car, what were 154 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 1: they saying? What was their demeanor? Um, they were, of 155 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: course really scared. UM. I remember very like Harley speaking. 156 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: She had a broken voice. UM. Of course I understand 157 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: why she was that way. Um. She was not even 158 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 1: able to speak at moments. She was just you know, thinking, 159 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: please can you get us in to to a hotel? 160 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: Please get it to a hotel, please. That's all I 161 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: remember her saying. Court. That was traumatic. Barry Adams is 162 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: with us, whose husband Josh managed to excuse me. Jason 163 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: managed to pull her to safety. And I've been thinking 164 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: about him, Barry and him standing there exposed in the 165 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: open as he tried to get you and some other 166 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: ladies over that huge fence. He was just standing there 167 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: as a shooter unleashed a hell of bullets and then 168 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: stop to help the other woman who got her legs 169 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: stuck in a fence and everybody was about the trampler 170 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: he stopped to help her. You stopped as well, Barry, 171 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: And then you find Eric. Here's my question, Barry, when 172 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: you hear him like what, I go through my life 173 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 1: every day not thinking about my fiance's murder because if 174 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: I do, if I let myself do it, it will 175 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: mess my head up for I don't even know how long, 176 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: maybe a day, maybe a week, maybe a month. And 177 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: I don't want to do that to my twins. I 178 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 1: want them to have a happy mommy, not a sad mommy. 179 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: So I don't think. I don't let myself think about it. 180 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: When you hear Eric recounting you bloody and scraped up 181 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 1: and your voice breaking in the car, what is going 182 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: through your mind? What are your recollections of that car 183 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: ride very that you took with your husband Jason? Well, 184 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: my recollection is very similar to what Eric just told you, 185 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: um and makes me very emotional. I haven't gotten very 186 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: emotional up until this point, but just hearing him tell 187 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: that story again makes me very emotional. I remember when 188 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: he let us in that car, when he opened that door, 189 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: it was the first time that I felt remotely safe. 190 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: And I was scared to get in the car because 191 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: I didn't know who he was. I didn't know, you know, 192 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: there's a shooter out there. I don't know how many, 193 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: but I was more scared not to get in that car. 194 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: And when I got in that car, it was the 195 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: best feeling in the world. Um, he did not hesitate, 196 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: like he said, he let us in and he was 197 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: so kind and he was so brave. I just, um, 198 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: I'm forever grateful, and I don't know how. I'm not 199 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: a documenter. Um, the last thing I would do is 200 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: pull out my phone and video what would have been happening. 201 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 1: But I knew I needed something good to hold onto 202 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: from that night, and that was the good that I 203 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: needed to hold onto forever. So I just asked him 204 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: to please take his picture. And I wanted to be 205 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 1: able to think him when I could form complete sentences 206 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: because I really couldn't talk. I couldn't. I just couldn't talk. 207 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: Just hearing the two of you. It's just I don't 208 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: know why. It's just so upsetting to me. Because it's 209 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 1: happy that you both lived and you have found each other. 210 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: It's happy. But when I think about that moment of 211 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 1: you running and you're bleeding in your with your husband, 212 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: I can just see the two of you holding hands 213 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: and you can still hear the bullets in the background, 214 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: and it just makes me think of all the people 215 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: that heard that and we're trying to get away, and 216 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: they didn't make it, and they lost their lives right 217 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: there in our great country where you think this wouldn't happen. 218 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: You know, you hear things stories like this about other countries, 219 00:13:55,720 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 1: you know, withs ISIS or uprisings or upheaval or unstable governments, 220 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,439 Speaker 1: and you read the stories and it sounds so awful. 221 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: But here in our country, one of the greatest cities 222 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: tour response in the world. And I just think about 223 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: all the people that experienced what you did, but they 224 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: lost their lives. And think about you Berry trying to 225 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: get away and thinking he told me you immediately when 226 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: you realized it was good to fire, you got down 227 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: on your knees and started praying. And I think about 228 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: how many times that I have done that and your 229 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: prayers were answered, and um, you know, I mean I'm sorry, 230 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: I answer. Sorry to interrupt you, but I I am 231 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: proud to be an American. But the only thing that 232 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: I'm not proud is how the government doesn't really have 233 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: any solution to this, and it is a tragedy. And 234 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: I think we should all be aware that we need 235 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: conscious minds in the world. We need to put aside hatred, 236 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: start building a new place where we all feel safe, 237 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: especially for the children that our future. We need to 238 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: nurture and understand that violence is not the answer and 239 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: for America shouldn't be impossible to handle these situations improphibit 240 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: the gun to use. I think that's that's something that 241 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: we should be aware of any I hope somebody, the government, 242 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: I hope our president can really find its a way 243 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: to stop this because this should not be happy. That 244 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: you a right, I pray to God you're right. Um. 245 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: I'm very torn, always have been, because I'm a victim 246 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: of gun violence, as you two are now as well. 247 00:15:52,600 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: And why would someone need assault weapons. Why. On the 248 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: other hand, I've prosecuted so many crimes where it looks 249 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: like the only people normal people follow the laws and 250 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: follow the rules. It's only the bad guys that get 251 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: their hands on and create weapons like this. I don't 252 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: know the answer, but I agree with you, Eric that 253 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: there has to be an answer. I also want to 254 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: take this moment which I don't really get the chance 255 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: to do that much. And thank Alan, thank Jackie Lee, 256 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: all the wonderful people that joined together at Crime online 257 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: dot Com and Crime Stories here on Sirius, and thanks 258 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: serious for letting us somehow pulled together Barry and Eric, 259 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: because from now on their fates and their futures will 260 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: always be linked together. And Barry, it was such a 261 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: fluke that I found you. My daughter had had an 262 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: orthodonic emergency and we raced in and everyone was talking 263 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: about Vegas and what had happened. And my friend there, 264 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: who deals with my daughter, we were all sitting there 265 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: as she worked on Lucy, and she told me about you, 266 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 1: and that's how I found you. And then you told 267 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: us about Eric, and we've made a really big, scary, 268 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: cold world a little bit warmer today. You know, Eric, 269 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: I'm so grateful to meet you, and God willing will 270 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: meet in the flesh. Marry, Thank you, my friend, Thanks 271 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: for letting giving me the opportunity just to thank Eric again. Eric, 272 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for um just being so brave 273 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: and so kind and and letting us into your car 274 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: and taking us back to our hotel. It was just 275 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: such a I mean, it wasn't I don't know. There's 276 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: just not any work. It won't be right back with 277 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: Barry and Eric and joining in will be a luxus. 278 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 1: Torres Chuck Radar online dot Com and my friend and 279 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: colleague Joe Scott Morgan. But I want to thank our 280 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: partner that is making this reunion possible. It's legal Zoom. 281 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: When you run your own business, you know, time equals money. 282 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: That's not just an old saying, it's true. So why 283 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: waste your valuable time dealing with issues legal zoom can 284 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: help with You may already know over two million people 285 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: have used a legal Zoom to start their businesses. But 286 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: legal Zoom services don't end there. 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For special savings, be 296 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: sure to enter promo code Nancy in a n C 297 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: Y in the referral box at check out for special 298 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: savings only at legal zoom dot com. Legal zoom dot 299 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 1: com with me. Eric Gomez, now held as a hero 300 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: across the country Barry Adams. She and her husband Jason 301 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 1: survived the Vegas massacre. Alexis Torres Chuck Writer online dot com. 302 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:42,959 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan joining US death scene investigator Alexis Torres 303 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: Chuck radar online dot com. When you're hearing these stories 304 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: of survivors and thinking about those that didn't make it, 305 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: I almost feel sick to my stomach when I'm hearing 306 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:59,360 Speaker 1: about the Vegas shooter. Um was sleeping with hookers offered 307 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 1: by cass he knows, according to reports, This makes me sick. 308 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: He's doing that ordering room service as he mounts his 309 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 1: weapons and prepares for the worst shooting in US history. Alexis, 310 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: what do we know? We also know he was camped 311 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: these rooms like he was such a high roller in Vegas. 312 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 1: He spent so much money gambling that the casinos gave 313 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 1: him rooms for free, to gave the meals for free, 314 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: and apparently, according to some reports, they gave him hookers 315 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: for free. And his girlfriend Mary Lou Danley, her sister's 316 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: boyfriend has spoken out and he has said that he 317 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: has no doubt in his mind he knows that when 318 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 1: Paddock was offered these hookers that he accepted them. He 319 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 1: said he was a creepy man, he was a mean man. 320 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: He was very mean to Mary Lou. And he said 321 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: he kept an arsenal of weapons in his home, not 322 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: a gun cabinet, which a lot of gun owners have. 323 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: My cousin has one. You have about six weapons in there, 324 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: an entire room of weapons, which we know because when 325 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 1: the police raided the home, they found all of them. 326 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: They found the thousands of browns of ammunition. And this 327 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: family member, his boyfriend says, this guy was somebody that 328 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: he thought was mean, he thought he was cold, and 329 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: he but he still said he was shocked by this 330 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: murder because he could never imagine Mary Lou being with 331 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: with somebody, and somebody that he's hung out with that 332 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: caused this mass murder. You know, it's it's a conundrum 333 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: people are close to killers, and I mean I was 334 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: thinking of b t K by torture kill. Uh. I 335 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: believe his name was Dennish Raider and he was a 336 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: dog catcher of all things, with a wife and a 337 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: family and nobody they had no idea what he really was. 338 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: To Joseph Scott, Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, Joe Scott, 339 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: that's funny how the people around these killers can be 340 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 1: so blind to what they're dealing with. But I did 341 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: notice this just Scott is very telling. Other people would 342 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: say they always felt nervous and jittery when they were 343 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: around him. The just some kind of freaky vibe he 344 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: gave off. And I mean, be honest, don't name them 345 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: right now, but don't you know people in life that 346 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: they just put you on edge. You never know if 347 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: they're going to be you know, I tell a joke, 348 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: it's kind of like a bully joke, or their sense 349 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: of humor is kind of like always got a kind 350 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: of a little bit of a mean edge to it, 351 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: or you just never know how they're going to react, 352 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: or people like that, You know there are clues, Joe Scott, 353 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: there are clues. Yeah, yeah, there are and uh, you know, 354 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: I think they will term the old adages they set 355 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: my teeth on edge when you're around certain people like that. 356 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: I think that if the family and friends of this 357 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 1: fellow retrospectively looked back, they might very well be able 358 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: to see indicators, uh, in the past, with interactions they've had, 359 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: within comments that he's made and this word thing, and 360 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: lots of times with these types of cases, people become 361 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 1: very reflective and sensitive to what they what they remember 362 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,880 Speaker 1: things he may have just said in passing. And sometimes 363 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 1: when the police go back and interviews with these individuals 364 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: these principles in their lives, um, they can begin to 365 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: put a picture together. And this is a picture that 366 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 1: up to this point is still incomplete. But I don't 367 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: like the way it's going at this point. It's it's 368 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: painting a very very dark image. You know what's funny, 369 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: Alexis to rest Chuck Radar Online dot Com. I'm gonna 370 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: be right back with Eric and Barry, who are with 371 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: us who survived this. Alexis. I'm all about the Constitution. 372 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: I have studied it. I know it like the back 373 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: of my hand. It is a living and breathing document 374 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: that protects us all and it does give us the 375 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: right to bear arms. And I get it. I get it, 376 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 1: we need the right to bear arms. But why is 377 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: it so many freaks gun freaks. They're not out hunting 378 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: or shooting or protecting themselves. They're freaks, and they'll have 379 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 1: like an arsenal of weapons. Why and then they hide 380 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 1: behind the right to bear arms. This is not what 381 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 1: the founding fathers intended when they gave the right to 382 00:23:55,640 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: bear arms. That was to protect American colonists against British 383 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: officers and others. That's what that was about. You know, 384 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: Stephen Paddock was very deceptive. I spoke with one of 385 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 1: the gun owners the gun works in Dixie. Gun Works 386 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: is actually the name of it in Nevada, which is 387 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: about I'm sorry and Utah, which is about a forty 388 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: five minute drive from where Paddock lived in Nevada. And 389 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: they told me so. He came in there three different times, 390 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: and they said, these guys have owned gun shops, they've 391 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: owned this for over twenty years. They know their clients 392 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 1: and their customers, and they said they never saw this 393 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 1: about him. They said he was. They called him John Q. Neighbor. 394 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: They said he was very nice, he was very respectful, 395 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,439 Speaker 1: and they questioned him extensively, which they do with everyone 396 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: who purchases a gun. He passed all the background checks, 397 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: of course, but they still talked to him, and he 398 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: just said he just moved to the area. He was 399 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: concerned about home defense. He just said, with the things 400 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: that are going on in this world, defense he had 401 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: that went off. The whole garage. Have you seen his house. 402 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: I mean his garage is like I'm sure the neighbors 403 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: love this. The whole garage is like plywooded shut. And 404 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: that was that's where he barricaded all those guns and 405 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: arsenal of weapons. And I mean he had pounds and 406 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,479 Speaker 1: pounds tennantite in his car. He could have blown up 407 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: his car at any moment. How many people would that 408 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: of kil That is not what the Constitution is talking about. 409 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 1: And he but he hit it from people. He hit 410 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,239 Speaker 1: it from gun store owners. He hit it from so 411 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: many people. He portrayed himself as just this awe shucks, 412 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: down home guy who just you know, wanted to make 413 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: sure that if somebody was banging on his door in 414 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: the middle of the night that he would have a 415 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: small weapon to protect himself. He was so deceptive, He 416 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: is such a mastermind criminal that he was able to 417 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: convince people who are in this business, who know they 418 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: recognize people when they come in, and they did not 419 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: see this at all. And three different occasions with him, 420 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: you know, the gun store owner just got Morgan. The 421 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: whole thing with the hookers and the guns and berating 422 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 1: the girlfriending the people at the coffee shop. Can tell 423 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: you that it's all about a feeling of power and control. 424 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: And that's just what he had. When you look at 425 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: the Mandalid Bay Hotel, the way he's broken out windows 426 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 1: at two areas, it looks like, you know, just huge. 427 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:25,439 Speaker 1: They're huge penthouse rooms adjoined. So he had two gigantic rooms, 428 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: you know, much bigger than my little apartment in New York. 429 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 1: I mean huge, huge, huge, huge expands, bigger than homes 430 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: for Pete's sake, And he had broken out windows on 431 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: either end. He had the power, he had control over 432 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: people like Berry Adams and Eric Gomez down below him, 433 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: like ants, That's what I'm saying, Joe Scott Morgan. Yeah, yeah, 434 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: And isn't it interesting that he kind of takes this, uh, 435 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 1: this eagle eye view over over the crowd and is 436 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: looking down well, well well above three feet in the air, 437 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: down in a crowd of twenty two people that essentially 438 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: are in a huge killbox. Let's not forget as well, 439 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: and this needs to really be emphasized moving forward. This 440 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: is not something that this guy just decided to do 441 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 1: on a spur of a moment. This was a planned action, Nancy. 442 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: He had over those period of days that he was 443 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: in that hotel room. Let's just wrap our mind around this. 444 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: He had transported roughly eight hundred pounds, eight hundred pounds 445 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: worth of equipment up into that huge room that he had, 446 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,640 Speaker 1: which you know, by the way, is actually bigger than 447 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: my home. Eighteen hundred square feet and eight hundred pounds. 448 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: How do how do you even begin to do that? 449 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: This took careful planning. He had picked up points along 450 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: the way in order to to tap this particular area. 451 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,160 Speaker 1: And now it's coming out that apparently he had been 452 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: scoping out other concert venues in other locations. Yes, that's 453 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,439 Speaker 1: what I'm hearing with me survivor Barry Adams and the 454 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: hero driver Eric go Mans. Eric, you refused to take 455 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: money that when you were offered money, by absolutely, I 456 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: mean I wouldn't be able to be so heartless and 457 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: not to do a favor that I know it's going 458 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: to be this for somebody else. I think. I think 459 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 1: it's no brainer, of course, to reject something that it's 460 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: not supposed to be there. I it's it's something that 461 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: I wouldn't do. I was not raised in a in 462 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: a home where I'm trying to take at bachelor people. 463 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: Of course not. My mom never told me that I 464 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: wanted to say, of course that um that it's not 465 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: capable of how everything happened. You can see the broken 466 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: window from my room. In my room, it's actually closer 467 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: than than the event where he was shooting at. So um, 468 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: it's something crazy, something that it should have been prevented. 469 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: I don't know how the security guards from the Metal 470 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: with A didn't know that he broke a window. What 471 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: you made by that? Yes, I mean there's a lot 472 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: of security guards um throughout the property devil morale of course, 473 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: just to check on that make sure everything he is trying. Um. 474 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: I don't know how they did not find where he 475 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: was shooting from because he can see from one of 476 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: my cousin's videos. He can see the gunfires, and I 477 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: don't know why the police was not able to really 478 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: locate the shooter. I'm just wondering, Alexis to rest check 479 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: writer online dot com if he broke out the windows 480 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: right before he started shooting at people like Barry and Jason. 481 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: I mean, it all probably happened so fast. I mean, Alexis, 482 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: you can get off hundreds of rounds with an automatic 483 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: and you know, just minutes. He was only shooting for 484 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: about ten minutes, and he didn't he got I want 485 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: to say, thousands of rounds out in the in those 486 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: few minutes. I mean, hey, there were study done with 487 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: where you they did. They listened to the recording and 488 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: what he was shooting. He was shooting like a hundred 489 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: bullets in seconds, I mean, just crazy things like that. 490 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: So he was But the police actually that there was 491 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: a security guard who actually was the first person at 492 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,479 Speaker 1: his room, and I believe it was within twelve minutes. 493 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,239 Speaker 1: They found him very quickly. They worked and he at 494 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: that point had stopped shooting and they were trying to 495 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: negotiate with him. He then exchanged gunfire. He shot through 496 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: the door. He shot the security guard he shot another man. 497 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: But the police actually did get there very quickly that 498 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: I don't believe they broke into the room as quickly 499 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: as perhaps we would have liked. But I think that 500 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: as the professionals and what they were doing, they had 501 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: stopped the outside gunfire and they were trying to negotiate 502 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 1: with him, And I think everybody would have probably liked 503 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: to have had him be alive and been arrested so 504 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: that we could get an answer as to the reason 505 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: behind this cruelty. But that didn't happen. He took his 506 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: own life, but the police were there very quickly, and 507 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: and it was a mantel security bullets at the security 508 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: guard the shot him through the door. Through the door, 509 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: you know, Barry Adams survivor. I want I wonder if 510 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: you ever thought that would be attached to your name, 511 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: Barry Adams survivor. You know, sometimes people break down after 512 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: the danger has passed, because during the danger, all you 513 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: you told me all you were thinking about was getting 514 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: back home to your boys and did not want them 515 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: to be raised without a mother. But now that you're 516 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: safe and your home, what thoughts are going through your mind? 517 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: Barry Adams. I think it's starting to settle in now 518 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: for my husband and those we were just talking about 519 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: this yesterday. We're starting to get a heavy feeling. You 520 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: start to think about all of the people that didn't 521 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: make it out. You start to wonder, why not you? 522 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: Why them? You know, you realize that so many of 523 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: them didn't even have a chance. He had gotten off 524 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: so many rounds before anybody even your life. It was gunshots. 525 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: Those people didn't even have a chance to run, you know, 526 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: which was the only thing you could do, which run um. 527 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,239 Speaker 1: So it's it's starting to take a toll on us 528 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: um and just become a heavy feeling. And then you 529 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: start to think about, you know, things that you have 530 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: planned in the future. We actually have concert tickets for 531 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: sorta Georgia line coming up in just a few weeks, 532 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: and you know, we have to make a decision. Are 533 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: we gonna go through with that? Are we going to 534 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: be afraid? Are we not going to be afraid? And 535 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: what are your thoughts? What are you gonna do? We're 536 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: gonna go. If we don't go, then he wins. You know, Barry, 537 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you said that. Eric go miz now 538 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: Hill does he hero Berry Adams Alexis, Joe Scott, thank 539 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 1: you friends. You spend your whole life working for your children. 540 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: You know, people say, um, what do you do When 541 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: I say, I worked for John, David and Lucy. They're 542 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: my boss. I wake up in the morning, five thirty 543 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: in the morning and hit the ground running trying to 544 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: make their life great. Okay. Imagine you spend your life 545 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: devoting it to your children, to your daughter, and um, 546 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: she goes away on a high school senior trip and 547 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: you're so proud that you could give her a trip 548 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: that's probably pretty expensive, going on a fancy cruise to Aruba, 549 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: and then you never see her again, alive or dead. 550 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: That waving goodbye, that by my by dad, I'll see 551 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: you in a week. That's it. That's your memory. You 552 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: never see them again, dead or alive. I Nancy Grace, 553 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: this is cry Stories. Thank you for being with us 554 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: as we seemingly head to a new chapter in the 555 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 1: search for Natalie Holloway. Joining me right now. Investigative reporter, 556 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: five time Emmy Award winner Art Harris also with me, 557 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 1: forensics investigator, Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University, Joe Scott, 558 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:34,439 Speaker 1: Morgan death scene investigator. We are now learning the very 559 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: latest in the search for Natalie Holloway Art Harris. For 560 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: those people just joining us that may not be familiar 561 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: with Natalie's story, the straight a honor student from Alabama 562 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 1: Mountain Brook Area already had a scholarship flag Girl. I'll 563 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: never forget the video of her dancing out on the 564 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: football field at halftime and our little dance Tuxsie with 565 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 1: all her little friends just in a nutshell are if 566 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: you could start at the beginning and bring me up 567 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: to date, Joe Scott jumping when you need to, Okay, Nancy, 568 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 1: she goes down to Aruba with high school classmates graduation trip. 569 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: They are having a great time going to the bars 570 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: of Ruba, and so she is going to giffing bars 571 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 1: with the girls and winds of the place called Carlos 572 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 1: and Charlie's is last seeing leaving with a tall a 573 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: Reuben guy. Identify as you're in vander Slute, you know 574 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: it's one of the first things you see. You can 575 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 1: see it that the minute you see the island, you 576 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 1: can see Carlos and Charlie's. It's not it's not hard 577 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: to find, Okay. So she goes she's not alone. She's 578 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: following all the rules that we put on people for 579 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 1: a good reason. I'm right about that, Joe Scott. Don't 580 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: go to bars and drink ladies by yourself. Is it fair? 581 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: Is it fair? No? It's not fair that we have 582 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: to live with those rules. Do you want to get 583 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: a rufi at g h B, A Gamma Hi Joxy 584 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: beauty rate date great drug in your drink? No, So 585 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,360 Speaker 1: stick with your friends and keep your drinks attended. Back 586 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: to um, aren't Harris Police. So she's at Carlos and 587 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: Charlie's with her friends, and she's last seen leaving. Her 588 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: friends report leaving with with this guy and a couple 589 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,319 Speaker 1: of others, the Akalpo brothers, and there are and the 590 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 1: judge's son, yourn Vander Slut Mayhew wrought in Hell. And 591 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: I don't really feel bad about saying that Joe Scott. 592 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 1: I think that she had already been slipped a g 593 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 1: HB in her drink right then, because Natalie Holloway, to 594 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: all of her friends and mother's accounts, had never once 595 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: left with an unknown person. This is a rule follower, 596 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: and I usually don't like that term because it makes 597 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 1: you sound like your pigeonholed. What I mean is this 598 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 1: is a girl who did what her parents asked. She 599 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: wasn't somebody that snuck out at night or did drugs 600 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,279 Speaker 1: or got tattoos on her private parts. This was a 601 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: good girl in the classic sense of the word. And 602 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 1: suddenly she leaves with these right, And you know the 603 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: thing about it is, you need to throw in one 604 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: more word. Uh. At this age, it's not like she's 605 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: a senior in college, all right, she's uh, you can 606 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 1: still actually use this word innocent. And she she doesn't 607 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: know this. This vander Sleut character is very worldly and 608 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: and God only knows what else he's been involved in. 609 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: And the thing about it, if this was g h B, 610 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 1: which now we will never ever know, Uh, if this 611 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,239 Speaker 1: was g HB, you know, anybody can have their way 612 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: with somebody with the stuff. It's that powerful. It's a hypnotic. 613 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 1: It is that powerful of a drug. And Lord only 614 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: knows what they can do or did with her at 615 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,320 Speaker 1: that point in time. So she's in the car. Go ahead, 616 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: go ahead, dear, go ahead. Yeah. This was a common 617 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 1: uh theme in Vandersloot's life. He would go to Parlison 618 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 1: Charlie's and sources telling me that that she was not 619 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,839 Speaker 1: the first woman he had dosed as it were, so 620 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: there they knew who he was. But but girls like 621 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,799 Speaker 1: Natalie did not know. Not to turn your head. You 622 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 1: understand something, guys, and this is painting quite the picture. 623 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,399 Speaker 1: But when you are under the influence of g HB, 624 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 1: a guy puts it in your drink and then they 625 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: have relations with you, it is like, um, you're unconscious. 626 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,839 Speaker 1: You're it's like a bag of sand, you're just laying 627 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 1: there right. Yes, yes, there's there's a They say that 628 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 1: there's kind of a sleepy awareness, if you will. I 629 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: think back to the you know, to the movie Rosemary's 630 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: Baby where she wakes up in the nightmare and says, 631 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 1: you know, I can't believe this is happening. There's nothing 632 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: she can do about it. It's kind of like that, 633 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,720 Speaker 1: it is a hellish nightmare. Uh, there's only a slight awareness. 634 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: Le let's think about it. This is on the same 635 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 1: level almost with light anesthesia, if you will. And it's 636 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,799 Speaker 1: that's what makes it just a horrible set of circumstances. 637 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 1: Can you imagine just being completely helped. I can't understand 638 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 1: why a guy would be interested in that experience. But Okay, 639 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: she's in the car, she leaves. Aren't what happens next, Nancy. 640 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: They reportedly go to a beach where you're in at 641 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,800 Speaker 1: reports that she has had a seizure uh and chokes 642 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: cotting to the trade on her own vomit. And then 643 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,759 Speaker 1: the question is what to do with the body. But 644 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,240 Speaker 1: I'd like to point out Aunt Harris that he told 645 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 1: he described her underwear that she was wearing that night. 646 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,400 Speaker 1: So more than her choking on the beach happened, Another 647 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,839 Speaker 1: story he told was that she wanted to sleep with 648 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,839 Speaker 1: him and he said no right and left her there 649 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 1: on the beach alone. Then there's the seizure story, then 650 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: there's the underwear story. But what we know for sure 651 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,919 Speaker 1: all these stories come from you're in Vanderslout, the judge's son, 652 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 1: the judge who covered up for his son. All we 653 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,359 Speaker 1: know for sure is she was never seen alive after 654 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: that night by her friends or family. Now giant search ensued. 655 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,319 Speaker 1: Aunt Harris was there on the island of Aruba as 656 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 1: I covered it live. Remember aren't you joined me practically 657 00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,439 Speaker 1: every night on our achill In show and to this 658 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: day bring me up to date. Now, Art Nancy. There 659 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:10,360 Speaker 1: were so many searches for her, uh that were led 660 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,839 Speaker 1: by tips from questionable characters who were friends with with Vanderslut. 661 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,840 Speaker 1: She was she was dumped in the ocean, she was buried, 662 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:24,280 Speaker 1: and the police did not find anything. So here we are. 663 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 1: The Holloways are desperate to find out what happened to 664 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,720 Speaker 1: their daughter. No one can get answers from the Uruban 665 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 1: authorities because everyone seems to be tied to your end's father, 666 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 1: who is a very connected judge. And this is something 667 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,360 Speaker 1: that to this day, uh, you wonder what will be 668 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,280 Speaker 1: able to be pride out of that place on the case. 669 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: But getting back to what we left out, one thing, 670 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 1: five years to the day of her going missing. Stephanie 671 00:40:55,360 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 1: Tasiana Flores, another beautiful young girl that you are Ander Salute, 672 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 1: meets in a casino slash bar, is murdered by your 673 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,239 Speaker 1: Vander Salute. So there's two dead bodies. Okay, back to 674 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,799 Speaker 1: now in the search for Natalie in Peru and so 675 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:14,680 Speaker 1: he is in he is in prison, but before he 676 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 1: leaves a Ruba, he is befriended by this character in 677 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: our search for Natalie h a character named John who 678 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:28,839 Speaker 1: is becomes his friend and John's parents are. John's relatives 679 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: have a business on the island of a Ruba in 680 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:36,160 Speaker 1: the real estate business. So John reaches out. He's smitten 681 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,920 Speaker 1: with your end like some groupie, contacts him and Orin 682 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,120 Speaker 1: doesn't respond, but finally he goes and he meets him 683 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,920 Speaker 1: in a Ruba and they become fast friends because he 684 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 1: likes the same things as John. And finally John Urin 685 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 1: trusts him enough to ask him to help him bury 686 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,799 Speaker 1: cover a dig up Natalie's bones to rebury them. Uh 687 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: we now here uh someone in the States, here's this 688 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:09,880 Speaker 1: uh named Gabriel, who contacts Natalie's father and the hunt 689 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: is on. There's a plan to go back to Aruba 690 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 1: and see if this friend of your ends by now 691 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,720 Speaker 1: he's in prison in Peru, will lead them to the grave, 692 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,880 Speaker 1: lead them to sites where her remains can be found. Now, 693 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 1: this is the guy yourn Vanderslute asked to dig up 694 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:35,640 Speaker 1: Nowly's remains and put them somewhere else. And according to reports, 695 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 1: your Vanderslute then crushed the bones as best as he could, 696 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 1: mixed them with dog remains, and tried to burn them. 697 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:50,920 Speaker 1: Remains were found, and this is what we hear about 698 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,960 Speaker 1: the bones. We're going to meet with Chief Richardson and 699 00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,239 Speaker 1: his team to discuss the bones that were turned into 700 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,359 Speaker 1: him Gabriel several weeks ago. They had indicated they were 701 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,400 Speaker 1: not human. Now what about the bones? Animal bones? What 702 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,240 Speaker 1: kind of animal was it? You know, just animal bones, 703 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 1: not human bones. Is there any reports or anything you 704 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 1: don't give us about the bones? No, you have nothing. 705 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:19,000 Speaker 1: That enforcement we don't give reports out the third party. 706 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:26,560 Speaker 1: Can we look at them the bones? We've got to 707 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 1: get any question of doubt and we get up the bulls. 708 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:36,080 Speaker 1: Can we got us? Okay, this is what what's happened. 709 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,560 Speaker 1: It was the ribbon police are saying these bones are 710 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,839 Speaker 1: animal bones, but they haven't had those bones long enough 711 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,799 Speaker 1: to have them properly tested. So, you know, I have 712 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,600 Speaker 1: my doubts, and I think what I will do is 713 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,480 Speaker 1: have the bones tested myself to make sure that they 714 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,440 Speaker 1: are non human or exactly what they are. So the 715 00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,600 Speaker 1: fact that dog bones were mixed in not a surprise. 716 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,880 Speaker 1: We knew that you're in Van Slut had tried to 717 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,120 Speaker 1: mix in dog bones with Natalie's remains. What effect would 718 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,399 Speaker 1: that have? Joe Scott Morgan, this is gonna throw off 719 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,839 Speaker 1: the testing Nancy, because we've got bones that are what 720 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,799 Speaker 1: are referred to as co mingled, and so you will 721 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,200 Speaker 1: get a it's good and that it gives us a 722 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,360 Speaker 1: different type of result. We can, uh, you know, test 723 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,800 Speaker 1: the d NA for the dog will look completely different 724 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,759 Speaker 1: than the DNA for say a human. You got it, 725 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 1: so it would just throw off the test. Take a listen. Well, 726 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,840 Speaker 1: one thing, the fact that there were dog bones really 727 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,960 Speaker 1: corroborates part of what these informants were saying that you're 728 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:44,759 Speaker 1: in vander Sloop did. Now this is the latest. A 729 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:50,680 Speaker 1: world renowned doctor, a DNA expert here in the US 730 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:54,720 Speaker 1: who worked at Ground zero, has established a DNA unit 731 00:44:55,360 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 1: at a college. It's Dr Kolkowski says the following. Take 732 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:06,279 Speaker 1: a listen. When we actually took the DNA extract and 733 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,840 Speaker 1: ran it through this screening process, it came back positive. 734 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,799 Speaker 1: It came back human. No, I'm not you say those 735 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,319 Speaker 1: are human bounds. There is human DNA and these bone samples. Yes, 736 00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,239 Speaker 1: as to which one of the four is human? Are 737 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,799 Speaker 1: all of them? That's where some additional testing is going 738 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,200 Speaker 1: to need to be done. So these are human bounds human, 739 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,840 Speaker 1: there's human mitochondrial DNA and these bones and that I 740 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,960 Speaker 1: think is fairly significant. Yeah, I wouldn't expect the nation. 741 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:39,040 Speaker 1: And there's even a more interesting aspect here. So the 742 00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 1: test we ran right now is designed to screen in 743 00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,560 Speaker 1: a very broadway just look to see if there's any 744 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:48,440 Speaker 1: human mitochondria there. It's really interesting because not only does 745 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,799 Speaker 1: it align perfectly to our standard reference sequence that we 746 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,240 Speaker 1: use in MITO, there are no differences to the reference sequence. 747 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,279 Speaker 1: The reference sequence was actually built on a European Caucasian 748 00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,200 Speaker 1: d A sequence of fact here is that that's the 749 00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:09,319 Speaker 1: that's the ancestry that we're questioning. Yeah, you caught me 750 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:15,320 Speaker 1: by surprise. I never expected this. All of these dominoes 751 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,239 Speaker 1: are tipping over the right way telling us that we 752 00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,680 Speaker 1: need to proceed forward with some testing. There's a possibility though, 753 00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,600 Speaker 1: that this could be somebody else. There is take a 754 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:29,480 Speaker 1: listen to Dave Holloway, this is Natalie's father. They're human 755 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,879 Speaker 1: bones and they're from either Natalie or somebody else. And uh, 756 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:39,520 Speaker 1: basically it's inconclusive. So um, he wouldn't he wouldn't know 757 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:44,320 Speaker 1: until October the sixth, that um, until they see DNA 758 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,839 Speaker 1: on each each individual bone. So that's where there aren't 759 00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:53,279 Speaker 1: out so So there you hear Natalie Holloway's father who 760 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,200 Speaker 1: has been on a quest since his daughter disappeared. I've 761 00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,840 Speaker 1: spoken with him many many times. He's traveled the world 762 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,839 Speaker 1: as far as Nick roa Qua trying to find out 763 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:06,879 Speaker 1: what happened to his daughter. So Art Harris, after all this, 764 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:14,000 Speaker 1: all of this, we learned that it's not Natalie, but 765 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:21,640 Speaker 1: there is human mitochondrial DNA of an Eastern European descent woman. Yes, 766 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:26,320 Speaker 1: that's right, Nancy. This raises questions, who is this victim? 767 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,440 Speaker 1: Who is this woman who it was supposedly dug up 768 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:36,640 Speaker 1: near his house? Was this possibly another victim of yourn 769 00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,720 Speaker 1: vander Salute. We do not know that. I'm just sick. 770 00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,360 Speaker 1: Are I'm sick? A that it's not Natalie, and b 771 00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,760 Speaker 1: that this is another woman that you're in Vander Salute 772 00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:51,080 Speaker 1: had dug up and her remains hidden, I mean and destroyed. 773 00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,480 Speaker 1: This is the response from a Reuben police. We're going 774 00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:57,680 Speaker 1: to solve this game is one of these days. Because 775 00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,560 Speaker 1: it's an ongoing investigation. We're up, we end up. I 776 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,640 Speaker 1: want reveal everything, but let's put it like this. We 777 00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,440 Speaker 1: obtained a lot of information and have a lot of information, 778 00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,600 Speaker 1: and we didn't give up. So there you hear a 779 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:14,320 Speaker 1: Ruben police saying they have information we don't know about 780 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,120 Speaker 1: and someday the case and Natalie Holloway will be solved. 781 00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,439 Speaker 1: Well not if they have anything to do with it. 782 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:31,600 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off, goodbye friend. Do you 783 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,880 Speaker 1: find yourself obsessing over unsolved mysteries? Do you wish there 784 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,000 Speaker 1: was a group of people just like you to talk 785 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,960 Speaker 1: motives and alibis with. If so, join the crime Con 786 00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:43,160 Speaker 1: Cold Case Club and work alongside experts and fellow crime 787 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,640 Speaker 1: sleuths to help uncover new leads and theories in the 788 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,840 Speaker 1: cold cases they adopt. Their first cold case focuses on 789 00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,880 Speaker 1: the mysterious disappearance of nursing student Maura Murray in two 790 00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,800 Speaker 1: thousand four, and it's free to join thanks to Oxygen. 791 00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,719 Speaker 1: Sign up now or find more info at club dot 792 00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:01,239 Speaker 1: crime Con dot com. That's club dot cr Encon dot com.