1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,199 Speaker 1: Don't let your legacy I T systems cost you money, 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: innovation and a place at the digital table of the future. 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: You can change your systems and the economics of it 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: with software from red hat. See how at red hat 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: dot com. It's August and Christian Provisionado is in Savona, Italy, 6 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: on the beach with his girlfriend when he gets a 7 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 1: call from his boss. Christian worked as a bodyguard for 8 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: a security company in Milan. He's got this honor and 9 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 1: Loyalty tattoo on his biceps. He wears these dark sunglasses. 10 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: He's a burly guy in a little bit intimidating. He 11 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: worked mostly society events in Italy, like Georgia Armani's fort 12 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: anniversary party. This particular job was a little different. His 13 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: boss needed him to fly to Mauritania in West Africa. 14 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: He was told to bring a dark suit and accompany 15 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,119 Speaker 1: someone to a meeting with the government there. His boss 16 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: made it sound like it was an emergency. My brother, uh, 17 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: you don't see any danger, is saying, okay, I haven't 18 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: two good name just for a presentation. That's Mauricio Provisionado. 19 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: He's Christians brother. We just do the demo in thought 20 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: of the Mauritanian development and it seemed like a easy job. 21 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: It turned out that this wasn't an easy job at all. 22 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: Christian was arrested by the Mauritanian government, imprisoned and held 23 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: hostage there and he's still there. What was supposed to 24 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: be a one week assignment has turned into a sixteen 25 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: month nightmare, all because he unknowingly walked into a cyber 26 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: weapons right as it was going bad. Hi, I'm Akito 27 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: on Jordan Robertson, and this week on Decrypted, we're taking 28 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: you deep into the underworld of cyber crime. This is 29 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: a world of offshore bank accounts and meetings that never happened, 30 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: a world where governments and organizations a huge sums of 31 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: money to spy on each other and on their own people. 32 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: As we spend more of our lives on our digital devices, 33 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: the market for these cyber weapons is exploding. But first, 34 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: let's explain why Christian went to Mauritania in the first 35 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: place and the deal that he was supposed to be closing. 36 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: For that, I need to introduce you to Maniche Kumar. 37 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: Maniche is an up and coming entrepreneur in the cyber 38 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: arms dealing world. But he came from humble beginning. He 39 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: watched you to videos to teach himself how to code 40 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 1: in a rural village in northern India. Yes, so let's 41 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: talk about this market for cyber weapons. It sounds scary 42 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: and it is. You're selling the ability to take advantage 43 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: of someone someone's software or phone or hardware that that's 44 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: that's being targeted. And um, having the ability to is 45 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: very advantageous to lots of individuals. So um, there's a 46 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: lot of money involved for sure to be able to 47 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: purchase in and use these things. That's Andrew Blake, who's 48 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: a researcher at Lookout, which is a company that specializes 49 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: in mobile security. We had him come into our San 50 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: Francisco studio to walk us through how this market works 51 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: and some of the more technical details of our story 52 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: today that we're going to be getting into a little 53 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: bit later. And when he said that there's a lot 54 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: of money at stake, he means a lot of money. 55 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: Researchers estimate that this market is worth billions of dollars. Okay, 56 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: so back to the niche. He's made a bit of 57 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: a name for himself in this world. He wrote a 58 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: book called The Secret of hacking that got the attention 59 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: of the Indian government. They asked me Niche to use 60 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: his hacking skills to crack into China's secret operating system, 61 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: a computer network they were using to spy on countries 62 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: like India. But Maniche is really entrepreneurial. He wanted to 63 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: be more than just the guy who does odd hacking 64 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: jobs for the Indian government. He realized that the market 65 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: for selling offensive technology, as in the technology that a 66 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: government could use to launch an attack, breaking into a 67 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: network or spy on another country. Yeah, that market is 68 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: much bigger. This kind of technology that Meniche was selling. 69 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 1: People call it all kinds of things like cyber arms, 70 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: cyber weapons, exploits attacks. What you need to know is 71 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: that these are tools to hack and spy on other people. Now, 72 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 1: Maniche wouldn't talk to us on the record for this episode, 73 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: and I think you will understand why pretty shortly. But 74 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: I did go to India to meet him for some reason. 75 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: He let me a reporter check out the spots where 76 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: he used to meet his clients and learn about how 77 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: he built his business. Menisia's tall was slicked back here. 78 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: He's handsome like he could have ended up on a 79 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 1: Bollywood set if he had made different life choices. And 80 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 1: his company, Wolf Intelligence, which is based in Munich, looks 81 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: pretty good too. They have an office in Dubai, another 82 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: in Romania, a Swiss CEO, and booths at every major 83 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: military technology conference around the world. Yeah, these are all 84 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: the trappings of a respectable boutique surveillance company. But when 85 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: you meet Monichian person, it doesn't take along to realize 86 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: only part of the image is real and part is 87 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: for show. He's still learning about this world of enemy 88 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 1: hunting spy technology. Yeah, like how to be in the 89 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: room when the really big deals go down. So back 90 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: in December, Maniche lies to Doha, Qatar and sets up 91 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: a booth at an industry fair called Millipole Qatar held 92 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: at the Doha Convention Center. I'm reading its website here 93 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: that says it's the leading international exhibition dedicated to homeland 94 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: security in the Middle East, and it's held under the 95 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: authority of the Prime Minister of Qatar. So it's not 96 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: like they're meeting in a dark back alleyway, right, it's 97 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:27,359 Speaker 1: actually a perfectly legitimate conference. Yeah. Absolutely, Imagine the sixty 98 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: five thousand square foot convention center with buyers from more 99 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: than sixty countries checking out armored vehicles, machine guns, and 100 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 1: surveillance systems. It's there that Maniche makes the deal of 101 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: a lifetime. So he manages to pique the interest of 102 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: a couple of government officials from the small African state 103 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: of Mauritania. Miniche gives them a more detailed demo. Within 104 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,559 Speaker 1: a month, Mauritanias signs a two point five million dollar 105 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: contract with Maniche. He'll get paid in installments. This is 106 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 1: certainly the biggest splash in his short career as a 107 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 1: cyber arms dealer now, but it's very nature. The cyber 108 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 1: arms market operates under what economists politely call a trust deficit. 109 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: That means that because everyone's trying so hard to cover 110 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: their tracks, it's basically impossible to know who you're dealing with, 111 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: whether your business partner is a thief, a scammer, or 112 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: something more dangerous. If you're going through kind of the 113 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: backdoor channels and the black markets and things like that, 114 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: it's a little bit of the wild West, right You're 115 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: you're selling these things out there, Um, you don't know 116 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: who you're selling them to, really, so you mean you 117 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: might be selling them someone that's trying to set you up. 118 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: You might be selling them someone that wants to use 119 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: them moliciously. You might be selling them to someone that 120 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: just wants to get them and use them for research purposes. 121 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: As these things go, Mauritaneous was pretty close to the 122 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: bottom of the shark tank as a population of only 123 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: four million people, and it's had ten coups since sixty 124 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: when it gained independence. It's one of the last places 125 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: on Earth where slavery still exists, and the government is 126 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: regularly condemned for human rights abuses. But Maniche is a 127 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: hired gun and there's a lot of money on the 128 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: line and deals like these, and he's not particularly bothered 129 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: by that. The way Moniche views the world is if 130 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: he doesn't make these deals, someone else will. But right 131 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: now he's trying to fix a more immediate problem, which 132 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: is that as part of the whole two point five 133 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: million dollar package, monichha agreed to deliver the Mauritanians a 134 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: piece of technology that he actually doesn't have. What exactly 135 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: that technology is that's coming up, But first a word 136 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: from our sponsor. Inside the most successful organizations, i T 137 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 1: has gone from supporting the business to driving the business, 138 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: but the costs of legacy infrastructure can impede this progress. 139 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: Budgets can't stretch enough to pay for digital ovation at 140 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: the speed required. No one gets a blank check. The 141 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: answer is to change the economics of your I T 142 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: by shifting from ownership to use, from licenses to subscriptions, 143 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: from proprietary to open. Change the economics of it with 144 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: open software from red hat. Learn more at red hat 145 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: dot com. Okay, so, before the break, Miniche had managed 146 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: to close a two point five million dollar deal with 147 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: the Mauritanian government, and included in the deal was a 148 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: piece of highly sophisticated surveillance software. And Jordan's until you 149 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: brought the story to me, I didn't even know that 150 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: this thing existed. Yeah, I didn't know much about it either. 151 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: It's called a silent SMS attack. When you want to 152 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: essentially hack into someone's phone, you need them to execute 153 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: like a piece of software on their device to take 154 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,079 Speaker 1: advantage of the vulnerabilities and install the malicious software on 155 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: the device. Now, how you actually get the user to 156 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: exploit their phone is a number of different ways. You know, 157 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: in the past, there's things like you can install malicious 158 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: application that will take advantage and break the sandbox and 159 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 1: break the security features of the device, but that requires 160 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: and tricking the user into installing them. Let's just app 161 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: through efficient campaign or something like that. So what Andrew 162 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: is describing here, these are those emails that are like, 163 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: you know, click on this link to win ten million 164 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: dollars right now. Exactly, you as the user, need to 165 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: click on a link that triggers a whole process that 166 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: allows the hacker to take control of your phone. But 167 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: there's also another way. In phone carriers like Verizon and 168 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: a T n T often sent invisible text messages to 169 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 1: their customers to get them to update their software. It 170 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: says if they have a backdoor into your phone, because you, 171 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: the owner of the phone, don't have to click on 172 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: or download or open anything, it's just happens automatically. And 173 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: because it happens in total stealth, it's called a silent SMS. Now, 174 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: as you can imagine, this pathway is usually guarded with 175 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: tons and tons of security walls. But if a hacker 176 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: manages to find a security hole that allows them that 177 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: secret access to anyone's phone, it's the holy grail for 178 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: hackers because like all of our lives are now on 179 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: our phones in this case right, all of our information, banking, 180 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: personal all on one single device for us now that 181 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: they become these highly valuable targets because everything is in 182 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: one spot now for us to access. Even the way 183 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: in which we log into our systems are two factor 184 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: tokens and things like that are all all located on 185 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: our phone device. So having the ability to get in 186 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: quickly and silently is very advantageous for these kinds of 187 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: targeted attacks that are out there. Once they have their 188 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: software on there and they've you know, they've taken advantage 189 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: of it, they can do whatever they want. They basically 190 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: have a backdoor inteier device to do to do anything. 191 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: So this is really powerful stuff, something only maybe a 192 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: handful of very sophisticated players can pull off. And this 193 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: is the technology Meniche needs to get his hands on, 194 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: so he flies to Israel, the beating heart of cyber warfare. 195 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: Through a network of connections, Minich is told that someone 196 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: called Duty Sternberg, a cyber weapons broker, might have what 197 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 1: he's looking for, and Maniche goes to Duty's leather appointed 198 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: offices in a high rise inside Tel Aviv to get 199 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: into Duty's office, Miniche has to go through a branch 200 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: of a local bank with metal detectors set up at 201 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: the door. Menich is very impressed. Dot he wants a 202 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: million dollars for this piece of software, and he wants 203 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,599 Speaker 1: a big part of that cash upfront. Now, this is 204 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: a real dilemma for Meniche. In this murky world of cyberweapons, 205 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: the normal rule of business they don't apply. Yes, someone 206 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: violates the terms of a contract if they don't pay 207 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 1: or if they don't deliver, it's not like you can 208 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: just go see them right. There's nobody enforcing the law. 209 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: And the problem here is manichees starting to suspect that 210 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: the Mauritanian government is probably never going to pay him 211 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: the final one million dollars of his contract. And at 212 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,839 Speaker 1: the same time, Maniche isn't sure if he can trust Duty, 213 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: the Israeli broker, to deliver a real silent SMS exploit. 214 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: So there's a very real risk here that Maniche would 215 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: end up with basically no profit if he pays Duty. 216 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: But Mauritania doesn't pay him, So Maniche decides to buy time. 217 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: He doesn't give Duty the down payment, which means he 218 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: never gets the silent SMS. In the meantime, in Mauritania, 219 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: government officials are getting antsie. They've paid one point five 220 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:00,959 Speaker 1: million dollars to Miniche, but they haven't received most important 221 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 1: part of the software that they were promised. And there 222 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: was an Indian technician Miniche had sent to Mauritania to 223 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: help the government use the software that Miniche had delivered 224 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: to them so far. But as soon as the technician 225 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: arrived in Mauritania, the government confiscated that technicians passport, took 226 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: the technician as hostage and Miniche had to find a 227 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: way to get the guy out. At this point, Meniche 228 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: is wondering maybe he can convince them to accept a 229 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: package without the silent SMS. Maybe they'll take a discount 230 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: and to set up another meeting with the Mauritanian government, 231 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: Miniche decides he wants a white European guy with his 232 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: staff to do it now. The reason for this is 233 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: Manich is very concerned about being discriminated against because of 234 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: his ethnicity, so his plan is to get white Europeans 235 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: to accompany him and his staff on important meetings to 236 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: add what he views is additional legitimacy to his company. 237 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: That's when Christian previous Yonnado, our Italian bodyguard comes in 238 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: Minisia had worked with Christians boss in the past, so 239 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: Christians boss called Christian and asked him to fly out 240 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: to Mauritania immediately. My brother has not time to check 241 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: to investigate, because normally when you receive an offer job offer, 242 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: you know you have to prepare and you have to 243 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: study everything. But they wish so hard my brother. They say, oh, 244 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: it is an emergency, you have to fly tomorrow morning, 245 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: so Pizza don't give the time to my brother to 246 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: check to what's really is going on the place alone. 247 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: So this is really a trap and things got weird 248 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: right away as soon as Christian arrived and more at NA, 249 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: a man with no teeth meets him at the airport 250 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: and takes his passport away. Christian was told this was 251 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: just standard procedure, something he needs to do to get 252 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: a visa, but then he doesn't get the passport back. 253 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: And when Christian arrived at the apartment that Miniche had 254 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: prepared for him, there's another Italian there called Leo Ratano 255 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: who's about to leave after staying for a week there, 256 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: and he warns Christian that there's something fishy going on. Now, 257 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: Remember Christian doesn't know any of the background at this 258 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: point that we've been telling you today that he had 259 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: walked into the middle of a high stakes deal that's 260 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: disintegrating by the day. And after he hangs around for 261 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: a week, Miniche calls off the meeting. He just can't 262 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: come up with a solution and he simply runs out 263 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: of time, at which point Christian's boss starts to send 264 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: him a frenzied series of WhatsApp messages. He tells Christian 265 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: to leave the apartment that Miniche's company provided to move 266 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: to commercially run hotel, to try the German embassy because 267 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 1: there's no Italian embassy there. Then, on September one, two 268 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: weeks after he arrived in Mauritania, Christian disappeared. His boss, 269 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 1: his girlfriend, his brother, they all lost contact with him. 270 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: You Know, the first twenty four hour, you think, Okay, 271 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: say come because maybe there is UH some problem with 272 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: the network, with the communication, you know, the UH Middle Africa, 273 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: so maybe sometimes it can happen that. But after the 274 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: second day I start to understand that that, yeah, maybe 275 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: some problem h was ongoing. On third September, I received 276 00:17:53,280 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: a call from the Italian Council in Morocco to tell 277 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: me that my brother was arrested from the Malitanian government. 278 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: That's Maritio Provisionado. Christians brother. Christian was charged with defrauding 279 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: the Mauritanian state and money laundring. His family was allowed 280 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: to visit him a couple of times, and his brother 281 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: was shocked to find out the conditions that Christian was 282 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: held in for the first few months. I had the 283 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 1: possibility to spoke with him. He say, the condition was 284 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: really bad. Was a room really dirty, the bed was 285 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: really bad. And another point is for six months he 286 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: they did to him just rise and water, rise and 287 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: water and nothing else. So the problem is my brother 288 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: is Gabeti and for a toabatic person, uh, the rise 289 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: it's like a poison. So my brother, in this moment 290 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 1: is still alive. But it's a miracle and the fight 291 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: to get Christian back has turned into this international affair. 292 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 1: Top level diplomats from Italy and Mauritania met on the 293 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: sidelines of the UN General Assembly in September and multiple 294 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: other meetings after that. Now that the two governments are 295 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: in talks, Christian's brother says he's held in better conditions, 296 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: but Mauritaneous simply won't let him go. Well, in Jordan's 297 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: we are tired. We are really tired, because it's a 298 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:49,439 Speaker 1: sixixteen months that we fight every day to found the 299 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: two to try to to understand what has happened there. 300 00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: We tried to involve all journalist in Ita, but the 301 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 1: nine of the media and the journalists in Italy, they 302 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: don't want to talk about this study. Mauritania says that 303 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: the released Christian if they get their one point five 304 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: million dollars back, and there's been some speculation in Italy 305 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 1: that the government might pay the money. As for mi Niche, 306 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: he's still trying to get Christian back to but he's 307 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: unwilling to give back the one point five million that 308 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,439 Speaker 1: Mauritania has already paid him. And even though Mauritania is 309 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: demanding that he come back to resolve the disputing person 310 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 1: after seeing what happened to Christian, Maniche won't return himself. 311 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: In October, Minis tried to set up a meeting at 312 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: a neutral location outside of Mauritania, but the government official 313 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: never showed and in the meantime, Minie says that he's 314 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: been busy building his own company. Business has been booming. 315 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: Mini said he just landed a five hundred thousand dollar 316 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: deal with the Egyptian government. And that's it for this 317 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 1: week's Decrypted. Thanks for listening. We'd love to know what 318 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 1: you thought of this show. You can send a voice 319 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 1: message to our producer Pia at p G A D 320 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: K A r I at Bloomberg dot net, or write 321 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: to me on Twitter. I'm at Jordan's are one thousand 322 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: and I'm at aki itso seven. Be sure to subscribe 323 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: to Decrypted on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts, 324 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: and please leave us a rating and a review. It 325 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: helps more listeners find our show. This episode was produced 326 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: by Pierre get Kari Magnus, Henrickson and Liz Smith. Jim 327 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 1: Ailey edited Jordan's accompanying Business Week story, which you can 328 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 1: find at Bloomberg dot com slash business Week and Bloomberg 329 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,360 Speaker 1: dot com slash Tech. Alec McCabe is head of Bloomberg Podcasts. 330 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: We'll see you next week. Don't let your legacy I 331 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 1: systems cost you money, innovation and a place at the 332 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: digital table of the future. 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