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Speaker 1: What's back to my old introduction style? My podcast host

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Speaker 1: Who's out of Ideas? I'm Robert Evans hosted Behind the Bastards,

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Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk about terrible people, and more importantly,

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Speaker 1: I completely botched the introduction every time, and after a

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Speaker 1: hundred some odd podcasts, I shouldn't be doing that anymore.

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Speaker 1: But I'm not a professional. I am a hacking of fraud.

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Speaker 1: But you know who isn't a hack in a fraud?

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Speaker 1: Sharine Lonina's air horn, airhorn, airhorn. Never I've never felt

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Speaker 1: more like a hack in a fraud than I am

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Speaker 1: when I'm always what why is that? I don't think

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Speaker 1: I'm smart enough for this? No? I am. Well, the

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Speaker 1: point of this podcast is nobody's very smart, or none

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Speaker 1: of these people would be getting away with all the

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Speaker 1: ship they get away with. True, true, true, true. No.

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Speaker 1: I'm very happy to be here. Thanks for having me back.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to know what. Thank you out there sucking

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Speaker 1: up the world. Well, Sharine, I'll tell you who we're

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Speaker 1: talking about day. I want to ask a question of

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Speaker 1: your first, what in your mind qualifies someone as a

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Speaker 1: ladies man? A ladies man, well, um, someone that's like

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Speaker 1: a charismatic, smooth talker. You know, maybe he gets away

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Speaker 1: with a lot of like things that unless capable person

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Speaker 1: would get away with. Um yeah, he's popular, but um uh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, Like you know, like if someone's a

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Speaker 1: creep and they're good looking, you give them a pass

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Speaker 1: because they're good looking, like not like you, but like

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like the general society, I kind of

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Speaker 1: think of that as like a ladies man, but also

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Speaker 1: you can be a good kind of ladies man and

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Speaker 1: be nice to ladies um and treat them well. He's

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Speaker 1: a double edged sword. Yeah. Yeah, I've known some guys

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Speaker 1: that I would I would describe as ladies men who

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Speaker 1: were very respectful what I mean, some guys are ladies

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Speaker 1: men who are like absolute sociopaths. Like it's but it

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Speaker 1: always is one of the two. They're either like the

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Speaker 1: best person you know and they're just incredibly charming because

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Speaker 1: they're really decent people, or their utter like soulless monsters. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think there's definitely there's definitely a dichotomy there where

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Speaker 1: there's like one side where they're like charismatic, the life

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Speaker 1: of the party. Everyone's like attracted like a magnet and

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Speaker 1: the other side where it's like a dark brooding they

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Speaker 1: just got all the girls because they're just like yeah, rude,

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah. Well, today, Sharine, we are talking about the

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Speaker 1: quintessential ladies man, one of the men in fact, for

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Speaker 1: whom that term was coined. And the guy we're talking

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Speaker 1: about today is also the inventor of the concept of fascism.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's a nice little blend of attributes. Yeah yeah, this,

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Speaker 1: this is this is a hell of a tail. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I'm I'm curious for a woman's perspective on this

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Speaker 1: guy's I don't fully understand this guy's appeal, but it

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Speaker 1: was undeniable like in his lifetime. But I find him baffling. Um,

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Speaker 1: So maybe you can help me make sense of this.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of Gabrielle de Nunzio. Nope, alright,

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Speaker 1: well neither had I really until I started digging into

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Speaker 1: him a little bit back. So, so he's not very

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Speaker 1: well known today outside of Italy. Um, but he is

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Speaker 1: an important figure. So. Gabrielle de Nunzio was born on

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Speaker 1: March twelfth, eighteen sixty three, in the city of Pescara, Italy.

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Speaker 1: Now the nation of Italy itself was only about two

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Speaker 1: years old when he was born Um, because it had

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Speaker 1: just you know, like after the Roman Empire, felt it

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Speaker 1: had mostly been a collection of city states, and big

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Speaker 1: chunks of it had been ruled by other countries and

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Speaker 1: kingdoms and ships, so like Italy had just started being

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Speaker 1: a thing like in the modern sense when this guy

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Speaker 1: is born Um and Pescara, his hometown was a small

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Speaker 1: coastal city buttressed by mountains and pine trees. It was

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Speaker 1: a particularly like hustle and bustily place, and Gabrielle's father,

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Speaker 1: Francisco Paulo, was the mayor. Today, we'd probably consider Gabrielle's

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Speaker 1: family to have been upper middle class. His dad was

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Speaker 1: a small time landowner and a wine merchant with a

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Speaker 1: terrible habit of spending much more money than he could

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Speaker 1: actually afford. So they made a good living, but they

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Speaker 1: were always kind of like on the edge of their means.

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Speaker 1: Now as the biggest man in town, because Francisco Polo was,

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Speaker 1: you know, the mayor, uh, he needed to be seen

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Speaker 1: displaying conspicuous wealth. So some of Gabrielle's earliest memories during

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Speaker 1: carnival where of his father standing on the balcony and

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Speaker 1: tossing gold and silver coins down into a crowd of

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Speaker 1: partying poor people, which was like not just his dad

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Speaker 1: did that in any town, the guy who occupies his position.

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Speaker 1: That's like a tradition. So you show off your large esse, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: so he was going to be able to like he well,

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Speaker 1: I mean I think he was very popular. Yes, he

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Speaker 1: was perceived as a good guy. But this was also

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Speaker 1: like what you do if you're if you're a mayor,

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Speaker 1: if you're the richest man in town, you throw money

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Speaker 1: into crowds on carnival. It's just what happens. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's more traditions. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I prefer other forms

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Speaker 1: of income redistributing that that one's throwing money at me.

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Speaker 1: That can work, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, it's better than

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Speaker 1: what we have now where they don't do that at all,

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Speaker 1: just heard at all. Yeah, So I can imagine. I

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Speaker 1: can imagine like if that happened now, it would be

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Speaker 1: like very riotous, like just clamoring for that one dollar,

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Speaker 1: like whatever scent is on the ground, if you really

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Speaker 1: like me, you know, because times are rough. Times are rough.

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Speaker 1: I I do think if like I wonder because like

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Speaker 1: I think part of why so many rich people are

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Speaker 1: are against both war and and and uh Sanders who

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Speaker 1: both have wealth re distribution platforms. Um is that they

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Speaker 1: like they and they while they're in favor of like

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Speaker 1: charity and stuff. There's number one, they spend less money

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Speaker 1: on charity, but number two like then it's them. Then

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Speaker 1: everybody gets to see like, oh, this this great rich

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Speaker 1: person bought this hospital, as opposed to like, well this

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Speaker 1: guy paid his taxes. Like one of those feeds your

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Speaker 1: ego more maybe for like, look, you have to give

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Speaker 1: up x amount of money, but you can toss it

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Speaker 1: into a crowd of partying people like let's let's compromise.

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Speaker 1: That's a good that's a good question there. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: Francisco Paulo, like, you know, Gabrielle's dad, he grows up

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Speaker 1: like seeing him doing all this stuff. He's it's very

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Speaker 1: ostentations and displays of wealth are a big part of

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Speaker 1: his childhood. His dad also had a hobby of dying

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Speaker 1: doves in a variety of colors, using like new high

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Speaker 1: tech dies at the time and letting them fly around

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Speaker 1: inside the house, which is weird. That's an interesting hobby.

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Speaker 1: They didn't have TV or radio, so you know, you

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Speaker 1: have to entertain themselves by Yeah, torturing animals is about

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Speaker 1: all you got. That's quite the quite the activity. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to keep like leading back to my pro

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Speaker 1: dog fighting agenda, but you know, in a time with

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Speaker 1: less entertainment, you have a pro dog fighting agenda. I've

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Speaker 1: been on the loops some dog fights, some dog legal

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Speaker 1: dog No, I'm so. As a young boy, Gabrielle was

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Speaker 1: the beloved center of his family's world. He had a

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Speaker 1: brother and three sisters, but Gabrielle's family immediately recognized that

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Speaker 1: he was special and treated him that way. And generally,

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Speaker 1: when we say someone was a child genius on this podcast,

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Speaker 1: we're repeating the lies of a narcissist. This is not

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Speaker 1: the case with Gabrielle. Basically, everyone who's ever covered this guy,

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Speaker 1: ever written about him, agrees that he was like everyone

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Speaker 1: kind of knew he was a genius from a very

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Speaker 1: early age. Um His most prominent biographer, Lucy Hughes Hallett,

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Speaker 1: absolutely despises him and thinks he was a monster, but

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Speaker 1: repeatedly emphasizes that just everyone who knew him as a

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Speaker 1: kid recognized that this kid's brilliant, right, So he's he's

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Speaker 1: not exact lying about that. Um. Now, Gabrielle was a

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Speaker 1: mama's boy, later writing of his mother that her glance

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Speaker 1: has made my heaven. He was surrounded by women from

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Speaker 1: an early age, maids, sisters and aunts, and his grandmother.

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Speaker 1: He was the center of their world, and he in

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Speaker 1: turned learned how to manipulate and to please women. Um,

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Speaker 1: he's adoring male. Yeah, exactly. That is something like all

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Speaker 1: the guys I know who who I would describe that way.

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Speaker 1: Most of them, um, grew up with like either a

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Speaker 1: single mom or like but like like usually they grew

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Speaker 1: up raised primarily by women. I think they definitely have

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Speaker 1: to have a female influence so they can understand the

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Speaker 1: female how a female brain can work, not that it

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Speaker 1: works so different, radically different, but it does in some

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Speaker 1: certain circumstances with like intimacy and bonding. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's kind of like it's just like you

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Speaker 1: grow up like wanting because they're like the center of

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Speaker 1: your world, like really wanting to please the women around you,

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Speaker 1: and then if you go out into the world, that

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Speaker 1: remains like one of the centers of your your being. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I do think that's sorry, no go ahead. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: I just keep saying yeah and agreeing, and then it

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Speaker 1: sounds like I'm about say something more. But I have

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Speaker 1: nothing profound to say. But I will say that I

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Speaker 1: think having being raised around women and understanding women in

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Speaker 1: the real world, that leads you to almost like speak

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Speaker 1: their language, and you're able to like establish a bond

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Speaker 1: with someone like immediately better than like someone else. It's

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Speaker 1: not like that doesn't have sisters, that wasn't raised by

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Speaker 1: a single mom, because there's already like this understanding there.

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Speaker 1: And I think that gets you in there bubble. You know,

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Speaker 1: you break that barrier so much easier because if you

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Speaker 1: raise mostly around men like I was, you you, you

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Speaker 1: you grow up starting every conversation with just a series

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Speaker 1: of fist fights, and and that that only works in

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Speaker 1: certain situations. It's very helpful at like the taco bell,

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Speaker 1: but outside of that, the taco belt, really you're gonna

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Speaker 1: get into I can navigate a taco bellt like nobody else.

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Speaker 1: It's just a bunch of right crosses. But um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: good to so. Pascara, the city he was born in,

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Speaker 1: um is located in a region of Italy called the

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Speaker 1: Bruzzi um and there was vanaging, and it was kind

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Speaker 1: of like a rural area, so there was vanishingly little

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Speaker 1: to do their outside of religion, and basically any monuments

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Speaker 1: around him were either churches or these perilous ly carved

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Speaker 1: caves that had once been occupied by monks and been

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Speaker 1: turned into like sites of worship um and faith. There

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Speaker 1: was a mix of extremely strict Catholicism and ancient Italian

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Speaker 1: pagan traditions like fortune telling, palm reading, and other manners

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Speaker 1: of like what we'd call witchcraft. UM. One of Gabrielle's

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Speaker 1: earliest memories was being taken in by an aunt of his,

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Speaker 1: who was a not a monk am a nun um,

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Speaker 1: into a part of the convent where males were not

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Speaker 1: allowed to go, and then breathlessly watching her perform like

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Speaker 1: a pagan fortune telling ritual. UM. So he grows up

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Speaker 1: both with this intense like ritualistic pagan influence in his

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Speaker 1: life and also with a lot of his earliest memories

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Speaker 1: being because he's seen a special taken into places he's

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Speaker 1: not allowed to be UM. Those are both kind of

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Speaker 1: like you can see like the kind of person that

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Speaker 1: makes like this idea that like the rules don't apply

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Speaker 1: to me, like I'm not bound by the same things

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Speaker 1: as everyone else, and then the world proves him right

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Speaker 1: by letting him like fall into place he's not allowed.

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Speaker 1: So it's like a self fulfilling prophecy. Absolutely proves right. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Gabrielle never religious and nursed all of his life, a

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Speaker 1: deep contempt for priests, but he also grew up with

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Speaker 1: an abiding love of ritual and the trappings of faith,

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Speaker 1: if not at any actual like belief in faith. Um.

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Speaker 1: He would later write of himself, quote, I come from

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Speaker 1: an ancient breed. My ancestors were anchor wrights in the Maya. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They flagellated themselves till the blood came. They throttled wolves,

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Speaker 1: they stripped eagles of their feathers, and they scratched their

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Speaker 1: seals on giant rocks with the nail Helen took from

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Speaker 1: the cross. So damn a lot of pagan influence, you

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Speaker 1: could say. Now. Gabrielle de Nunzio was an infamous liar,

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Speaker 1: but the books and stories he published later in his

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Speaker 1: life give us deep insight into the sort of things

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Speaker 1: he would have experienced as a boy in Piscara. Because

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Speaker 1: writers write what they know. So I'm gonna quote now

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Speaker 1: from the biography of Gabrielle de Nunzio titled Gabrielle de

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Speaker 1: Nunzio Poets, Seducer and Preacher of War by Lucy Hughes

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Speaker 1: Hallett uh And this is a quote from that biography

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Speaker 1: about one of his early books. Quote. In Denunzio's first story,

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Speaker 1: set in or around Piscar, he conjures up a place

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Speaker 1: where the bustle of port and barracks and market are

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Speaker 1: contrasted with the frustration of women confined to small dark

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Speaker 1: rooms who watched the life of the street through chink

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Speaker 1: shutters or small high windows. The church bell clangs out

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Speaker 1: the hours, Priests pass in the streets, carrying extreme unction

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Speaker 1: to the dying. Young people, strictly segregated as a rule,

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Speaker 1: furtively press up against each other in the merciful darkness.

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Speaker 1: When the church lamps are extinguished in Holy Week to

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Speaker 1: mark Christ's passion, funerals to be air followed by a

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Speaker 1: long lines of hooded mourners, their faces covered all by

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Speaker 1: but a slit for the eyes. Or processions of girls

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Speaker 1: and sacrificial white on the way to their first communion

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Speaker 1: provide the town's main spectacles. Many of the stories de

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Speaker 1: Nunzio related about his childhood concerned dying animals. There was

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Speaker 1: the death of his little Sardinian horse, a bay with

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Speaker 1: a white muzzle named Aquilino, whom he would feed with

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Speaker 1: apples and sugar lumps in the piece of the nighttime stable.

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Speaker 1: There was the quail the farm manager gave him in

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Speaker 1: a cage made of twigs. Half a century later, do

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Speaker 1: Nunzio can still recall how the tiny creature had dashed

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Speaker 1: itself against its makeshift bars, gashing its head until the

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Speaker 1: bone showed. On killing days, the howling of stuck pigs

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Speaker 1: and their blood spurting into basins so appalled him that

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Speaker 1: he would hide in a corner, face to the wall,

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Speaker 1: his hand for his contorted mouth. Life scared me as

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Speaker 1: though it stalked me with a pig sticking knife in hand.

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Speaker 1: After the massacre, he sobbed all night. So that's that's

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Speaker 1: a little insight into his childhood. Fuck that he's not

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Speaker 1: a bad writer. No, that's wait, that's he wrote that

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Speaker 1: about himself. So yeah, yeah, like a lot of that

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Speaker 1: included a lot of quotes from him. Yes, yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: I mean yeah, that's I mean, he he's called a

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Speaker 1: poet and a seducer, is what I remember from you.

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Speaker 1: That's the biography title. Yeah, I mean that's very poetic.

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Speaker 1: That's a very graphic way to describe everything. The bone

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Speaker 1: and the Jesus Christ would an intense would an intense life.

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Speaker 1: One of the things Lucy Hughes Howett, his biographer, emphasizes

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Speaker 1: is that he was really his writing at a real

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Speaker 1: visceral quality. Um, just in the way he like both

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Speaker 1: in the way he described bodies and like his romance books,

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Speaker 1: and like in the way he wrote about like it

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Speaker 1: was there's a lot of blood, a lot of a

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Speaker 1: lot of like. He was one of those like shove

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Speaker 1: your hands into the meat kind of writers. Um, which

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Speaker 1: is part of why he had such an impact on people.

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Speaker 1: But I'm getting ahead of myself. Um. Anyway, back to Gabrielle,

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Speaker 1: he'd almost been choked by his call while he was

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Speaker 1: being born. Uh. And because people are dumb, this was

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Speaker 1: the focus of much superstition. Baby is born this way

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Speaker 1: In Italy were believed to have the second site, and

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Speaker 1: the call itself was supposed to protect the person from drowning. Um. Now,

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Speaker 1: the call, if you weren't to wear is the amniotic

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Speaker 1: membrane that surrounds a fetus. Gabrielle's parents dried his and

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Speaker 1: put it in a little silk bag, which they hung

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Speaker 1: around his neck for his entire childhood. So that's cool,

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Speaker 1: that's so fascinating because if he was already born with

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Speaker 1: this idea that like this child, second site, this child

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Speaker 1: is special, Like how much of it is nature versus nurture?

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Speaker 1: Like how much of it was like I know I'm

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Speaker 1: special because everyone's telling me I'm special, And how much

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Speaker 1: of it is like you have a genius brain and

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Speaker 1: it just so happens that everyone already knew that about you, Like, like,

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Speaker 1: that's so fascinating. How much it was him living to

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Speaker 1: the standard that everyone had of him, and how much

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Speaker 1: of it was just like actual intelligence. I don't know

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Speaker 1: his his whole story has convinced me that my idea

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Speaker 1: towards how you should raise a child as correct, which

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Speaker 1: is when they're five, you put them out in the

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Speaker 1: woods with a knife and you just you leave them,

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Speaker 1: and if they come back home, if they find their

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Speaker 1: way back home, you know, then they get to continue

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Speaker 1: to grow up. And if not, well, you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't mean this is in a bad way. But I

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Speaker 1: don't want you to have kids anytime. So I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna say, if if someone had done that, to get real,

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Speaker 1: he's not going to grow up think any special. You

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Speaker 1: know for sure, you're out in the woods with all

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Speaker 1: the other five year olds and you have to form

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Speaker 1: your own society if you're going to get back to

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Speaker 1: your parents. And then yes, and like, they must have

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Speaker 1: had an awful life. I mean not awful, but they

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Speaker 1: must have had very much like a complex about themselves

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Speaker 1: with this like special profit child around them all this time.

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't know much about how his siblings

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Speaker 1: thought of him. He was very charming, and you do

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Speaker 1: get the impression that everybody was kind of in love

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Speaker 1: with him when he was. He got away with it,

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Speaker 1: He got away with everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, his

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Speaker 1: most significant childhood memory was of one of his sisters

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Speaker 1: showing him a fake pearl, and he was so taken

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Speaker 1: with the object that he immediately started climbing the nearest

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Speaker 1: tree to steal an egg from a bird's nest, because

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Speaker 1: kids are fucking stupid. His parents rescued him before he

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Speaker 1: fell down and killed himself, and they freaked out about

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Speaker 1: the whole ordeal. Uh and I'm gonna quote from his

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Speaker 1: biography again. His parents were there, his mother trembling, his

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Speaker 1: father pale and threatening to beat him. He was lifted

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Speaker 1: back through the window and laid faint and shaking on

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Speaker 1: a bed. In retrospect, he saw them, the mother, father child,

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Speaker 1: as a secular trinity. His aunts hung over him, weeping

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Speaker 1: as the sorrowing Mary's wept over the dead Christ. But

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Speaker 1: the family's communion was interrupted. The crowd, now gathered in

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Speaker 1: the street, believing the child to be dead, began on

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Speaker 1: the chilling eulation's customary at funerals. Gabrielle's father picked him

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Speaker 1: up and carried him limp and white faced, back out

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Speaker 1: onto the balcony. The keening turned to shouts of joys.

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Speaker 1: Describing the incident an old age, do Nuncio made of

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Speaker 1: this his first balcony appearance important. He was marked out

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Speaker 1: from childhood, so he asserted for a public life. So

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Speaker 1: this is is like defining childhood. Memory is almost dying

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Speaker 1: on a tree, and like the whole town turning out

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Speaker 1: because they hear his parents and shouting and yeah, and

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Speaker 1: this is basic. This is he's recounting this from his memory.

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Speaker 1: So there's a there's an element of like loftiness that's

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Speaker 1: in this memory that is he he's a child. There's

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Speaker 1: no way there's every like every time you remember something,

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Speaker 1: it becomes distorted. So yes, by the time he's recounting this,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it's not one factual, but I will say

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Speaker 1: that I went from like having this like Christ image

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Speaker 1: of everyone gathered around him and being sad, to like

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Speaker 1: the lion king, of like being on my pride rock

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Speaker 1: on this balcony. There's like lifting up this child, being

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Speaker 1: like this will save us. I think he sees himself

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Speaker 1: a little bit that way. Yeah, he definitely sees himself

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Speaker 1: as a Christ like figure. Um, and he was like

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Speaker 1: he was absolutely a narcissist. Like, there's not a doubt

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Speaker 1: in my mind that the way he recounts as his

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Speaker 1: memory is very telling him Now. His school reports from

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Speaker 1: the time describe him as very unbelieving in God and

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Speaker 1: as a boy, his favorite books where Paradise Lost in

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Speaker 1: Kine by Byron, both of which were epics about heroes

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Speaker 1: who rebel against God. Um. In school, he got in

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Speaker 1: trouble for telling his teachers, who were priests, that if

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Speaker 1: God existed, he was a villain or an imbecile who

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Speaker 1: created mankind to amuse himself by watching us suffer, which

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Speaker 1: is not an unreasonable theory. No, I feel the same

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Speaker 1: way a lot of the time. Yeah, I could. I

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Speaker 1: get on board with that. I feel like, if you're

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Speaker 1: at all a thoughtful person, you at least consider that

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Speaker 1: possibility at some point in your childhood's like what is

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Speaker 1: going on in this world? Yeah? I mean like when

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Speaker 1: I was twelve, I told my mom I didn't believe

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Speaker 1: in God because I just like I thought he was

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Speaker 1: so cruel and just amusing himself by making everyone suffer.

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Speaker 1: And then she started crying, and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm too young to be to speak my mind. I

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Speaker 1: to keep it to myself. But I will say that's

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Speaker 1: a very normal thing for a child to think, especially

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Speaker 1: if he's being raised by God loving, god fearing people.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I think even if you wind up

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Speaker 1: being very religious, at some point, if you pay attention

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Speaker 1: to the world, you have to wonder, is if there's

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Speaker 1: like a space guy in charge of all this, Is

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00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,280
Speaker 1: he a fucking lunatic? Like what the hell is happening

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Speaker 1: up there? Yeah? Yeah, I think that's he's on the

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Speaker 1: money with at least I will agree at this point.

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Speaker 1: So far you got me there, Okay, one for you.

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Speaker 1: Gabrielle grew up in an exciting time for Italy. Giuseppe

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Speaker 1: Garibaldi had conquered Sicily in eighteen sixty with just a

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Speaker 1: thousand men, defeating the vastly superior military of the Bourbon Monarchy.

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Speaker 1: King Victor Emmanuel had united Italy is a single polity

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Speaker 1: for the first time since the fall of the Roman Empire.

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Speaker 1: Nationalism was sweeping all throughout Europe in this period, but

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Speaker 1: nowhere was it stronger than Italy, and nowhere in Italy

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Speaker 1: was it stronger than in the heart of young Gabrielle

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Speaker 1: the Nunzio. The idea of being Italian very new at

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Speaker 1: this point. For most of history you hadn't No nobody

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Speaker 1: would have cared like. Nobody thought of themselves as Italian.

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Speaker 1: You thought of yourself as I'm a Venetian, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm a Roman, I'm a whatever, a Florencian or

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Speaker 1: Florentine whatever they call people from Florence um. But there's

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Speaker 1: this new found like nationalism that was like very prize,

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Speaker 1: and from from an early age he really identifies with

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Speaker 1: this as an Italian, and he's kind of one of

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Speaker 1: the very first, like major Italian thinkers in the Italian

399
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 1: Peninsula to identify as an Italian. Um. Now, when he

400
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 1: was eleven years old, Gabrielle's parents sent him off to

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00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:40,359
Speaker 1: a boarding school the sisso ganini sisogny Jesus. This is

402
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,960
Speaker 1: like supposed to be my ancestral tongue, and I don't

403
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,399
Speaker 1: know anything about it, So I apologize. I did not

404
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 1: know that. I'm my whole family's very Italian. We came

405
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,679
Speaker 1: in like the eighteen nineties on a boat um to

406
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 1: the to the US. But yeah, they come from like

407
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 1: Transalpine gall like the real the chunk of the Alps

408
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 1: that's on the Italian side of the peninsula. That's fast.

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Speaker 1: Look at you now, yeah, look at me now. At

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Speaker 1: the time, sending your kid off to this boarding school

411
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,880
Speaker 1: was like the thing to do for wealthy parents. Um.

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Speaker 1: But I think in a modern terms we would consider

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Speaker 1: this schooling experience to be profoundly abusive. One of the

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00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 1: school's rules was that new pupils could not return home,

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Speaker 1: not for holidays, not for summer vacations, not for any reason,

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Speaker 1: for their first four years from age eleven to fifteen,

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Speaker 1: Gabrielle is just in this school, totally isolated from this

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Speaker 1: very loving family that he's grown up in. So it

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Speaker 1: is from this like very safe, nurturing place where he's

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Speaker 1: like the center of the world to a cold boarding

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Speaker 1: school run by priests who show no warmth or emotion

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Speaker 1: or compassion to any of their charges. Yeah. He describes

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Speaker 1: the sunny and letters home as a prison. His only

424
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 1: escape was a daily walk around the grounds. His letters

425
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 1: home to his parents became almost fervidly loving and cloying,

426
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 1: agonizing over bright memories of his childhood and obsessing over

427
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,160
Speaker 1: the pain of his absence. Lucy Hughes Hallett, Gabrielle's biographer,

428
00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,880
Speaker 1: suspects that this environment caused him to grow a shell

429
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 1: that was at least partly responsible for the fact that

430
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,160
Speaker 1: he grew up into the sociopathists sociopath to ever path

431
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: Socie's um. That is yea great uh, it's a great line, um.

432
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:13,439
Speaker 1: And I guess it must have been jarring to go

433
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 1: to a place that you weren't like revered constantly. Yeah,

434
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 1: and I guess it. It kind of destroys my thesis

435
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,399
Speaker 1: that that making children survive alone in the woods for months,

436
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 1: would would stop them from becoming monsters. Well, your theory

437
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 1: is is that you would do that at a young age,

438
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 1: before they had a chance to think that they were

439
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 1: Messiah's But you're right, cheering. My theory is bulletproof. My

440
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,160
Speaker 1: theory of chan theory is not. It's bulletproof. I will

441
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 1: say it's fascinating, and I will say to use a condom. Um.

442
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 1: But continue now. At a certain point, Gabrielle seems to

443
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 1: have replaced the affection he once expressed for his parents

444
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 1: with a love of Italy. At age thirteen, after two

445
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 1: years and this iss Ognany, he wrote that he had

446
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: two missions in life quote to teach the people to

447
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: love their country and to hate the enemies of Italy

448
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: to the death. Um. Now, I'm obviously not a child

449
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,360
Speaker 1: development expert, but this does not seem like healthy behavior

450
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 1: to me. Um is a general rule. I think children

451
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 1: shouldn't focus on hating the enemies of their country to

452
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 1: the death. I feel like that's led people in bad directions. Um. Yeah,

453
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 1: gener yes, that's that's how you make the Nazis. Um.

454
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: Gabrielle's devotion to his nation was not, however, selfless. He

455
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 1: seems to have been obsessed with Italy, primarily as a

456
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 1: vessel to express his own greatness. One of his school

457
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 1: reports from the time notes he is entirely dedicated to

458
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,679
Speaker 1: making a great name for himself. He signed one of

459
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: his earliest photographs, a picture that he sent home to

460
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 1: his parents with to glory. So yeah, right now, yeah,

461
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: any other child probably would have been ribbed mercilessly for

462
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: this kind of arrogance, but it must be said, Gabrielle

463
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 1: backed up his words with deeds. He learned to play

464
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: the violin and the flute, and to sing expertly. On holidays,

465
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: he would translate ancient Greek literature into Italian. He wrote ceaselessly,

466
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 1: and when study time ended every evening, he would collect

467
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,919
Speaker 1: the excess lamp oil from the other boys so he

468
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,479
Speaker 1: could stay up all night writing. He was always at

469
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: the very top of his class, and at one point

470
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 1: he wrote home to his mother that he was angry

471
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: he'd been allowed to skip a test because quote, I

472
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: am certain I would have taken the first place. At

473
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: age sixteen, he could speak and write fluently in Italian, Greek, Latin, English, French,

474
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: and Spanish. So he's not good so my theory about

475
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 1: nature nurture. Okay, there's definitely an element of him being intelligent,

476
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 1: very smart. He's a smart kid. But my, but it

477
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: is a very interesting idea. Just I don't know, like

478
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: you can be smart and not a fucking lunatic. Yes, um,

479
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: and he definitely don't know. We'll tell you where this goes.

480
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: But before we talk more about Gabrielle de Nunzio, we're

481
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: going to talk about some motherfucking products and a goddamn

482
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: service or three. It's gonna be great. Okay, are you

483
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: ready for this ship Sharne, I'm so fucking ready. Italian

484
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 1: Robert that I've just learned. Okay, then I'm going to

485
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: shut up Pizza. That's it's Robert. It's okay. It's okay

486
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: to be racist towards Italians. It was a Mario reference.

487
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 1: Gen Mario is so racist. Yes, it'd be incredibly so.

488
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 1: But it's fine. I'm shattered. My little self of playing

489
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: Mario growing up is really sad. Listeners, you can see

490
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 1: it eyes for seconds. Jesus Christ, let's go to ads.

491
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 1: We're back, all right. I will say that I would

492
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: play Yoshi a lot of the times, and Mario Karton,

493
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: not Mario. Yo, she was my guy. Have you gotten

494
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 1: all the anti Italian bigotry out of your system now, Shrine,

495
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: I didn't mean it, Robert, Roberto, Sorry, I'm thinking I do.

496
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: Like you should have known I was Italian by like

497
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 1: the frequency with which I gesture with my hands. Um,

498
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 1: you're allowed to say that, but I'm not. Am I No.

499
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,959
Speaker 1: I think everyone is allowed to recognize that about Italian people. Well,

500
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: they say that about East from people too, that we're

501
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 1: very we're an expressive bunch. Well and like it does

502
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: like it like actually Italy is not super far from

503
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: the Middle East, Like it's just literally across like a

504
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 1: stream from cousins the world. Yes, yeah, yeah, that's there's

505
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: a reason why we were Every era I related to

506
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: my big fact Greek wedding. We're all the same. We're

507
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 1: all the whole region the Mediterranean is all the same.

508
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: We all show both our love and hatred with food.

509
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: Um very true, very true. Um. So the monthly turn sixteen,

510
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: Gabrielle's very first poem was published. It was an ode

511
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: to King Umberto um Now. Gabrielle's father, Francesco Polo, had

512
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: it printed and handed out to towns, folks who showed

513
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 1: up to take part in the king's birthday celebrations. And normally,

514
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 1: when someone's dad helps them publish their work, it's a

515
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: sheer sign that that work is no good. But this

516
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 1: was not the case with Gabrielle. Less than a year later,

517
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: his father helped him publish his first book of poetry,

518
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: called Primo Vera. Now, right out of the gate, it

519
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: was clear that Gabrielle de Nunzio was an incredible poet.

520
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: He sent copies of his book out to several of

521
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: the greatest Italian poets of the day, and most of

522
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: them wrote him back, um with like very positive things

523
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: to say about his work, And he's again, He's again.

524
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: He's seventeen at this point. Um. Yeah. A number of

525
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,199
Speaker 1: them even invited him into their homes and gave him

526
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: in vice and counsel. Critics raved about his work. The

527
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: priests at his boarding school considered banning the book because

528
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: it had powerfully erotic subject matter, contained lines like with

529
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: trembling agitation, I laid you on the water lilies and

530
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: kissed you with convulsed lips, crying you are mine like

531
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: a viper, you writhed and groaned Um, so like the

532
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: priests like this is way too much fucking to allow

533
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: in our religious school field. His his his cause that

534
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: must have been like, yeah, this is what I wanted.

535
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: They didn't ban the book. Um, they wanted to, but

536
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: they decided that his use of Italian was so perfect

537
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: and his verse form was so exquisite that they couldn't

538
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 1: ban the book. It was just too well written. So like, yeah,

539
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: they decided to allow because like but like, funk, the

540
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: dude can write, Like that's how good the poem? Crazy

541
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: that is? Yeah, yeah, I mean especially for the time,

542
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: it's must have been a very revolutionary thing to even

543
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: write about. Well, you know, they are Italians, so yeah,

544
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: like this this this is like you're you're going like

545
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: there's always been more of this kind of like acceptance

546
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: of sort of like this the yeah, yeah, it is

547
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: a very Italian thing. Um, and I can't I'm not

548
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: gonna have a lot of quotes from his poems in here,

549
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: just because like a big part of them is that

550
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: he was such a good writer the Italian language. So

551
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: like the translations, you lose a lot, I think, Um,

552
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: but it's universally recognized that this guy is one of

553
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: the greatest poets in Italian history. And some people will say,

554
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: including he would say that he was the best Italian

555
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: writer since Dante. I thought that you said, including him,

556
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: he was. He was, he was sure of that. Most

557
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: modern like academics will say, no, he was one of

558
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: a number of people. But he's at a very high level,

559
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: like he's had a big impact on the language. I

560
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: just hate that he is so. I mean, it's fine

561
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: to be confident and know you're worth but to say

562
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: that you're the best writer since Dante, that's like such

563
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: a I don't know, that's wild. But so he was

564
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: never a victor or, he never suffered from um syndrome

565
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: of nepotism, like he even though he had such obvious

566
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: nepotism in his life, like like like advances and and privileges,

567
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: no one ever, no one ever saw that as any

568
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: kind of issue. I think his work is just so

569
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: good that like people are like, well fuck, Like, I mean, yeah,

570
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 1: he definitely comes from money. His dad is able to

571
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: help him. But like his work does seem to stand

572
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: on its own. Interesting, I don't I don't think that,

573
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: like like most academics who write about him now like

574
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: agree that he was a monster and a piece of ship,

575
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: but pretty much everyone agrees he was really good at

576
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: writing poems. Imagine if Hitler was good at painting. Yeah,

577
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: it's it's weird. You get this mix of dictators like

578
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: Saddam and Hitler who are like, I want to be

579
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: artists but suck at it. And then you get guys

580
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: like Stalin, Like Stalin was a poet in his youth

581
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: and was a really well regarded Georgian poet. Um, Like

582
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: he gave it up after a while, but he was

583
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: like considered to be very good and still is. Um,

584
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed poetry. Poetry is so powerful, and I write poetry.

585
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: I think there's a there's a such a power in

586
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: using the written word, and it can garner so much

587
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: attention and in respect, especially back then because that wasn't

588
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: like the Internet. But uh but yeah, I it's it's

589
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: it's it's a fascinating thing too in this case. So

590
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: you have to separate the art from the artist. And

591
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: we we we go through right now with filmmaking, like

592
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: someone makes a great film when you find out they're

593
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: a pedophile. So it's like it's this balance of like

594
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: someone can make something so profound and so incredible, but

595
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: also be a complete waste of space or like a

596
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: piece of ship. So there's it's still going on now

597
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: and I think it's just fascinating to see it back

598
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: then as well. With poetry, I don't know, Yeah, And

599
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: it's to understand you have to understand what poetry was

600
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: back then too, because like now, there are people like

601
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: people like poems. Most everybody has at least a couple

602
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: of poems that they've enjoyed, but it's not like it's

603
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: not like a huge thing at the center of life

604
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: for us back then, Like to be honest, at least,

605
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: the feeling I get is that like poets at this

606
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: period is particularly in Europe, kind of occupy the space

607
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: culturally that like an Instagram or a YouTube star like

608
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: occupies now, Like they have these legions of utterly devoted fans,

609
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: like a pop star like they are like like the

610
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: closest you can like the best poets of the day,

611
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: guys like Byron, like the closest modern uh, like like

612
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: comparison to be someone like Beyonce like that, that's the

613
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: level of devotion that their fans have to know. It

614
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: was like that in the Middle East too. There's this

615
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: poet kind of from similar roots, like he came from privilege,

616
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: he was rich. His name is uh Um, He's Akabuni.

617
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: He's an amazing poet in the Middle East. He's Syrian

618
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: from Damascus, and he was regarded as like a celebrity.

619
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: He was. His book was like banned from so many

620
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: places because it was very erotic, very sexual and um

621
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: it was like everyone would read it as like a

622
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: like a like a political pamphlet that came out like

623
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: every it was like this like thing that everyone was

624
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: looking forward to, like it was this It's poetry was

625
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: like the mouthpiece of that generation for a long time,

626
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: and he would use it in a political way and

627
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: to talk about like I don't know, I think poetry

628
00:32:58,080 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: now is not what it was back then, and because

629
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: time is so different, but you know it's it's I

630
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: believe it's they were celebrating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so

631
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: like when when I talk about poets in this episode,

632
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: think about like a very high level pop star. You're

633
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: thinking about like the way people treat these guys. So

634
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: he's he starts reaching out to the most famous poets

635
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: in Italy with his work and they love it. Um

636
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: and one of them who is particularly taken as a

637
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: fellow named Nincione who's one of the biggest poets in

638
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: Italy at the time. UM And Nincioni takes him under

639
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: his wing and starts like tutoring him, and he introduces

640
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: him to a book by a guy named Thomas Carlyle.

641
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: The book is on heroes, and it's basically the thesis

642
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: statement of the great man theory of history that like

643
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: single exceptional individuals are the ones who move history, not

644
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: economic forces are like the actions of like mass groups

645
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: of people. Um. Like exceptional individuals are what make history.

646
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: And Gabrielle is absolutely taken with this theory um and

647
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: is of course convinced that he is supposed to be

648
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: one of those great men um and from a very

649
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: early age he was not. It was not just enough.

650
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: He's not just one of these people who like wants

651
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: to make a living with poetry or like just has

652
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 1: to express something. The thought of being anything but like

653
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: the very best poet writing in Italy is like hateful

654
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: to him. So early in their relationship he sends Ncioni

655
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 1: a book of his poetry with a letter asking if

656
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: his work is just charming or pleasing um, because if

657
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: that's the case, he was going to give up writing immediately. UM.

658
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 1: He said that little artists and little poets were abhorrent

659
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: to him, UM, and asks can I cover myself in glory? Um?

660
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: So like again, he can't stand the thought of just

661
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: being a good poet, Like that's not enough for this guy.

662
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 1: He's got to be the best. UM. By age eight teen,

663
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 1: Gabrielle had published three books of poetry. One was dedicated

664
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: to his recently deceased grandmother. The other was a second

665
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 1: edition of his first book, Primo Vera, with forty three

666
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: new poems and revisions to his old work. His father

667
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: paid the publishing costs for all these books, but the

668
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,240
Speaker 1: Nunzio took responsibility for picking the font, the paper, the printer,

669
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: and in setting up distribution deals with bookstores. Both Donunzio

670
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 1: has had a hand in promoting the work, and the

671
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: differing ways they went about it say a lot about

672
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: their personalities. Francisco Polo like a normal person, through a

673
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: big banquet party in the middle of town to drum

674
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: up interest in the book. Gabrielle, being a narcissistic maniac,

675
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: sent an anonymous letter to the editor of a poetry

676
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: magazine in Florence, lamenting that Gabrielle de Nunzio, the young

677
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 1: poet already noted in the Republic of Letters in his words,

678
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: had died after falling off of a horse. So he

679
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: sends a letter to like a big poetry poetry critic

680
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,399
Speaker 1: and claims that, like, hey, this guy gabriel who wrote

681
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:37,479
Speaker 1: this book, he's dead now. Um yeah, well he does

682
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: this because guys like Shelley and Byron, poets who died

683
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: very young after publishing you know, a gainful of books,

684
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: were like the biggest poets in Europe at the time.

685
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: They had these huge cults of fans because they died young. Um.

686
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: And so he knows that like if like if it's

687
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: just the story of like a young poet who's pretty

688
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: good and he's publishing a new book of poetry, like,

689
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: he'll sell some copies, people will talk about it, but

690
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: it's not going to be a huge deal. But if

691
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: he's a great poet who dies tragically young, that's a

692
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: huge deal. Um. And it gets treated that way by

693
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 1: the editor. Like a bunch of magazines start writing articles

694
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: about this this dead young poet. They like call him

695
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: things like the last born of the muses like he's

696
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: suddenly like the fact that he's believed to have died

697
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: young elevates his work instantly in Italy and he develops

698
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 1: this huge culti fan base. And eventually Gabrielle corrects the

699
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: error and basically plays it off as if, oh, this

700
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: must have been someone must have just gotten their wires crossed,

701
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 1: and like, since you incorrect information and you know it's

702
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: the eighteen eighties, Like honestly, I respect this. This is

703
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 1: level uh influencer, Like like I don't know that that's

704
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: one way to get a following. Back in the day

705
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: there was no Instagram. You couldn't you know what I mean?

706
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 1: Like you fake your death? Yeah, he fakes his death.

707
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: He and then and it it turns what would have

708
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: been kind of a modestly successful book of poems into

709
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: a national news story. So as he turns eighteen, Brial

710
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: de Nunzio is already famous um and already like very

711
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: well regarded, and of course he was already fucking um

712
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: As a young teen, his teachers had noticed that on

713
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: walks through town, Gabrielle constantly stared at young women. At

714
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: age fourteen, he spent a few days in Florence with

715
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: a family friend and wound up taking that guy's seventeen

716
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: year old daughter to the Museum of Archaeology and making

717
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,760
Speaker 1: out with her in public. Shortly thereafter, on a school

718
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: trip to another town, he pawned his grandfather's gold watch

719
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: to pay for a hooker so he could lose his virginity.

720
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,760
Speaker 1: Yeah he is, he is. He just dives right into fucking.

721
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 1: You cannot stop this guy from fucking, which gets exactly

722
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,439
Speaker 1: as rape as as that sentence should make it. See

723
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 1: yeah yeah uh. The summer after he was finally allowed

724
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: to go back to Pescara at age eighteen, he or

725
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: at age sixteen, sorry, he flirted constantly with every woman

726
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: in town. He found himself particularly enamored with a young

727
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: peasant girl. She, unfortunately was not enamored with him, so

728
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 1: he hunted her down, chased her into a vineyard, shoved

729
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: her to the ground, and raped her. Gabrielle was quite

730
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: proud of this and wrote about it openly. He had

731
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: a lifelong obsession with raping poor women, particularly servant girls. Um,

732
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: and it's actually hard to tell how often he did

733
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: it because the act was such a fetish for him

734
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 1: that he also fantasized about it regularly, as I am

735
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: because when you read when you read that poetry verse

736
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,240
Speaker 1: like before the break was when she was like writhing

737
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: and whatever, I was like in my brain, in my brain,

738
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 1: I was like, that sounds rapy, and this makes so

739
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 1: much sense in the worst way. I am disgusted that

740
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: I agree with some of the points that you made earlier.

741
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 1: He's a very rapey guy, is a big part of

742
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: his personality. Oh god, we're talking about the guy who

743
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: invented fascism. But that's the thing. You can be a

744
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 1: ladies man and not be rapy like that's absolutely a

745
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: rapy ladies man is the the worst kind of ladies

746
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 1: man in the Oh god, there's a lot of class

747
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 1: issues wrapped up in this because he doesn't at least

748
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not aware of him. I don't think

749
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 1: he raped upper class women, wealthy women, famous women, and

750
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 1: he had would have. He had hundreds of affairs with

751
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 1: the most famous women of the era and was considered

752
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: to be a very a very great like romancer. His

753
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 1: particular fetish was in raping poor women like that is

754
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 1: just appalling, I mean, not really disgusting, um horrible Yeah,

755
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 1: it's horrible because he's regarded as this womanizer, a seducer,

756
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: and also this rape fantasy of poor people is just

757
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: regards as a fetish because he has all these other qualities.

758
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: Well in the well. But the thing is, though, it's

759
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: a little more complicated than that, not that it's morally complicated.

760
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: It's horrible, but at the time, number one, most men

761
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: who he would have talked about that he wouldn't have

762
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 1: hid the fact that he was forcing himself on these

763
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,879
Speaker 1: poor women, and they wouldn't have really thought it was bad,

764
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: Like that's kind of like it's a it's a rape

765
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: eat time and place Italy in this period, and like

766
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: not just Italy obviously, like everywhere in the world. No, no,

767
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: I mean you rape and pillows. That was like how

768
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: you were taught to show yourself as a man. It's fine,

769
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 1: we're not all the way past that now, obviously. Um

770
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: So it was worse back then, and he would not

771
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: have this was not like a dark secret of his

772
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: is the point, Like, this is the thing that he

773
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 1: was like, Yeah, I'm a ladies man. I romance these women.

774
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: I forced myself on these women. That's just what a

775
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: ladies man do. Like, that's that's the attitude with which

776
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: for all the classes, even if they don't want you

777
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:39,280
Speaker 1: to kind of especially if they don't want me to. Yeah.

778
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: At ag eight teen, Gabrielle met Giselda, the daughter of

779
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 1: a schoolmaster in Florence. When he first met her, she

780
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: was sobbing because she'd just seen the corpse of a

781
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: little girl who'd frozen to death. This really turned Gabrielle on.

782
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: They started dating and fucking. In his early letters to her,

783
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: he would write about how much the sight of her

784
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: tears turned him on. I want to make those tears

785
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: fall again, um Lucy Hughes Howett writes quote. He luxuriated

786
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: in the idea of her unhappiness. He even told her

787
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: how much he would like to see her corpse. He

788
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: loved it that she was deathly pale, like the blessed Damosel,

789
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: the dead girl of Rosetti's famous poem in painting, but

790
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: he would have preferred her even paler. He told her

791
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: that he would go around all the florists in the city,

792
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: fill the carriage with assordid flowers to come and bury

793
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: her beneath them. Yes, to bury you. I want to

794
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: make you die. He wrote to Tito Zuccone, not as

795
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: one might expect, promising to cherish and protect Tito's daughter,

796
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: but announcing I and Elda cannot live long. Both he

797
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,720
Speaker 1: and Giselda were, so far as we know, in perfectly

798
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: good health. Yet De Nunzio wrote, our cold bodies will

799
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,320
Speaker 1: fall to the earth to feed the flowers, and we

800
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: will be swept away unconscious Adams and the irresistible currents

801
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 1: of the universal force. M hmm, I want you even pale,

802
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: or I want you did some red flags? Huh, Well, okay,

803
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: Unfortunately I I dated someone that told me he thought

804
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 1: I was attractive when I was when I cried. And

805
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: I think, like, it's such a weird thing to say

806
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: to someone, like to be like I think girls are

807
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 1: hot when they cry, or like I'm turned on by

808
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: girls crying. Um, there's elements of something like, I mean,

809
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: I guess there is a beauty to tears. I'm sucked up.

810
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think like it's complicated, like you're

811
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 1: not a bad person, if like, obviously you're not a

812
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 1: bad person. I have been coating my therapist. I don't

813
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 1: want to use the therapist, but I he's also in necrophiliac.

814
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: Then like he's also into like dead business. You know,

815
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: I don't know. I wouldn't say that because I don't

816
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 1: think that's I think it's more that the art. If

817
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: he's very much into classical and medieval art and that

818
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 1: sort of art. There's like this death obsession because death

819
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 1: was such a part of the Middle Ages, and there's

820
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,720
Speaker 1: a lot of paintings and poems and works of about

821
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 1: like focused around dead women. Um, like fucking Dante is

822
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: obsessed with his dead chick um that he only met twice.

823
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: Like it's it's a thing. And so it's like, now

824
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: if somebody's like fantasy, yeah, I would sa yeah, that

825
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: that's probably what that dudes into. But at the time

826
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: was probably just resizing this idea of of of I

827
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: don't know, losing your life, romantic death. Yeah, Like there's

828
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: just it's there's so much culturally wrapped up in it

829
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: that like you really honestly can't compare it to anything

830
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: today because like we don't have those same sort of

831
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: they're not nearly as powerful as they were then. Um,

832
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: now you know what, won't fantasize about your dead body.

833
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: That's a bad way to lead into adsum an ad

834
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,720
Speaker 1: break will never get raped by an AD break. Oh god,

835
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: you know what, won't molest peasant girls in a field? Jesus,

836
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: I hope the ad that comes up is like, I

837
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: don't know, fucking what do you get sponsored by? Like,

838
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: don add gabriel to Nucio. Oh boy, okay, let's just

839
00:43:54,040 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 1: go to products. We're back. I mean the first break

840
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: started with me being bigoted, racist against Mario or like

841
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 1: realizing that Mario is tainted forever, and the next one

842
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: lead it up to me just I'm sad. Yeah, that's

843
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: that's the do Nunzio effect. Okay, co continue, I'm sorry.

844
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 1: Over the two years that they were together, Gabrielle wrote

845
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: Giselda five letters. They actually spent very little time in

846
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: each other's company. Shortly after hooking up, he graduated and

847
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: wound up traveling all around Italy, launching his career as

848
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: a writer. He continued to write her dizzyingly passionate love letters,

849
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 1: but ignored all of her pleading requests to visit her

850
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: in Florence. Sometimes he would even pass by the city

851
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,439
Speaker 1: on journeys to other places without diverting himself to visit

852
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 1: this woman. He claimed to love. The fact that he

853
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: wasn't all that into seeing her didn't stop him from

854
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 1: giving her orders on what to wear only black. But

855
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 1: by eighty three he was tired of the relationship, and

856
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: gradually his letters to her dwindled off into nothing. Gabrielle

857
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: was never able to actually break off things with anyone.

858
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 1: He just sort of ghosted them after spending months and

859
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 1: even years writing tens of thousands of passionate odes to

860
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 1: their bodies. This would prove to be a lifelong habit

861
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 1: for the poet and writer. By his own count, Gabrielle

862
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: betted around a thousand women in his lifetime, and this

863
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: is probably not far from accurate. He developed a reputation

864
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: for being not just a great seducer of women, but

865
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 1: for abandoning them and breaking their heart. His lovers would

866
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 1: repeatedly attempt suicide, and a number of them probably succeeded.

867
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: One of the reasons I really love Lucy Hughes Hallett's

868
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: biography of Gabrielle Um is that she she's a woman,

869
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: and she brings a woman's perspective to the way this

870
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: this guy dealt with his relationships, and I'm very interested

871
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 1: in the way she writes about him, because she's very

872
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: detailed and thorough um and clearly as an appreciator of

873
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: his work, but is also utterly unsparing and sort of

874
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 1: analyzing this him as a human being. She writes at

875
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: one point quote the more unhappy a woman was, the

876
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: more interesting to him she became. The more he tantalized

877
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 1: Elda with promised visits, which were repeated he deferred, the

878
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,720
Speaker 1: more adorable her image seemed to him. You must be sad,

879
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: immensely sad, my poor angel, he wrote, you will be

880
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 1: thinking of me with desperate desire. The idea of her

881
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 1: disappointment denied his savage kisses was one he liked to

882
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 1: dwell on seeing her so seldom. She was really in

883
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: no position to report on how pale and one elder

884
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: really was, But he addressed her in a rapture of

885
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 1: sadistic pity as my palladophilia, my poor betrayed virgin. So

886
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: he's like into ignoring and mystery, emotional manipulator like, and

887
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: he's a fundamentally abusive person. He's a very abusive like

888
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 1: emotionally abusive person. Uh and ghosting someone and like there's

889
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 1: a there's a term called love bombing where you're like

890
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: showering someone with all this affection and everything. Then you're

891
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 1: just like gone. And it's a huge form of emotional

892
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 1: manipulation because you make them addicted to you because every time,

893
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 1: and it's like scientifically proven that whenever this person reaches

894
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: out again, your cortisol goes up, and your cortisol is

895
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 1: like your stress hormone, and it's like literally the same

896
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: way an addict reacts to an addiction. So he's literally

897
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: making all these women addicted to him, and it's conniving

898
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: and disgustingly brilliant because that's what a really good emotional

899
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: abuser does. Um. But it's one of the things that's

900
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 1: really hard about thinking, like I most of at this

901
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: point in my life, just because of the way my

902
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: career and my travel has gone, like most of my

903
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 1: relationships have have wound up being long distance for some

904
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 1: particular point, and that's like a really that's one of

905
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: the things that's like really tough about them is there

906
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: is this like addictive sort of like nature to the

907
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 1: relationship where you're apart and then like you're together and

908
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:40,959
Speaker 1: you get this like massive oxytocin release and then like

909
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: like it's hard not to. I don't know, Like it's

910
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: one of those things that I always wonder about, like

911
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: because it's it's it's just it's difficult to do that

912
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: and not like funk it up and not hurt the

913
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,879
Speaker 1: other or or get hurt yourself, like both of those

914
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: things happen. Like I guess they're hard, yeah, because when

915
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,399
Speaker 1: when the relationship is established as this, like I don't know,

916
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: like it's it's it's hard to describe it as anything

917
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 1: but an addiction because there's like this huge overwhelming release

918
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 1: of happiness and everything when you're together and then you're not,

919
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 1: and then especially if there's someone that's constantly pulling the

920
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,720
Speaker 1: rug from under you're pulling away constantly, that only feeds

921
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: the addiction for the other person. So in this case

922
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:27,320
Speaker 1: in particular, I think, I mean, like the my relationship

923
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 1: that I've kind of like the closest thing I've had

924
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,399
Speaker 1: to a relationship was long distance, so I can kind

925
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: of relate to what you're experiencing as far as like

926
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 1: when you're a part, it's like you're just waiting to

927
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 1: be with them again, and you're waiting for that like

928
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: basically a hit. And then as soon as you get it,

929
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: you're good. Even if they're just like replying to a

930
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:47,439
Speaker 1: message or whatever, it's like you're constantly needing that um

931
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: like streamline of like like I don't know um. But

932
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: then in his case, he's it's one side addiction. He's

933
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,919
Speaker 1: completely fine. I don't think he remains anything he writes.

934
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 1: He he is not at all emotionally in age, which

935
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: is part of what makes it abusive. Right, if you've

936
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 1: got two people and you're both dealing with that thing

937
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 1: and you're emotionally into each other, that's not abusive. But

938
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: if you number one. He also doesn't. In no way

939
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:12,919
Speaker 1: does this need to be a long distance relationship. He's

940
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 1: very well off and successful from an early age and

941
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 1: absolutely could at least visit her regularly. Like there's times

942
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 1: where he's like an hour away and he just doesn't

943
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: get like like like he's it's honestly, he probably gets

944
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: turned on with having this kind of power. He knows

945
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 1: he has power over these women, and he knows that

946
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 1: he has emotional abuse has made them addicted to him

947
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: and his presence even to be not there, and that

948
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: probably turns him on more than any type of sex,

949
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 1: in my opinion, like he's absolutely sitting there jacking off

950
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:49,280
Speaker 1: as he writes about how sad he thinks, Like that's

951
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: that's what he's into here, and that's why he's a sociopath,

952
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: because you're just yeah wow. In n when Gabrielle was

953
00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 1: very famous and renowned, not just in Italy but all

954
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 1: across Europe, Giselda wrote him and asked for permission to

955
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: sell the letters that he'd sent her. She needed the

956
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: money to give to her son so he could get married.

957
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,399
Speaker 1: Gabrielle refused her this and instead asked her to hand

958
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 1: over the letters to his lawyer. So like he just

959
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 1: doesn't doesn't give a ship, Like he just stops writing

960
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 1: this woman like and it completely cuts her off without

961
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 1: even like talking to her about just one day, we're

962
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: just done, like and he doesn't even tell her we're done.

963
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 1: She just stops getting letters and never hears from him again. So,

964
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,879
Speaker 1: like most great men in history, Gabrielle treated the women

965
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 1: and indeed the men in his life like trash. But

966
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:36,800
Speaker 1: this did nothing to halt the meteoric growth of his career.

967
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,720
Speaker 1: He went to Rome, where he studied literature, published more poems,

968
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: and started writing books. In eighteen eighty two, he wrote

969
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: The Innocent, a book about a dandy and fun hungry

970
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,839
Speaker 1: man named Tulio her Mill who cheats constantly on his

971
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 1: saintly wife until she cheats on him and finally gets pregnant.

972
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 1: In eighteen eighty nine he published Il Piacere considered the

973
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 1: manifesto of Italian Decatentismo, which is more or less what

974
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: it sounds like and I'm gonna read you two paragraphs

975
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 1: from Wikipedia's summary of this book. Girard, an aristocrat, is

976
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 1: in mourning over the death of his mistress Leonara. He

977
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 1: listens to tape recordings of them having sex and records

978
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 1: his recollections of the day he met Leonora for the

979
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:16,919
Speaker 1: first time at the Carnival of Venice many years ago,

980
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 1: on a day he felt sexually adventurous. In a flashback,

981
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: we see him meet her on the street, introducing himself

982
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: as Giacomo Casanova. After chasing her through the city, he

983
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 1: finds her waiting for him behind a column in a passageway,

984
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: where he lifts her dress and has sex with her.

985
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 1: Later that day, in an Opium dem after having a smoke,

986
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: they are initiated by Hanani. In The Cosmic Secrets, of

987
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: pleasure and join in the threesome with her. Back in

988
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 1: the present, Girard and Fiarrella dress Leonora's naked body for

989
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 1: her funeral. When Ursula and Edmund, Leonora's children from another man,

990
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: arrived for the funeral, Girard, who has not seen either

991
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: of them for ten years, at first mistakes Ursula for Leonara.

992
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 1: Girard is now legal guardian to both until they come

993
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: of age and a sudden fit, Edmund cries out that

994
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 1: his mother was only a whore and suffers an epileptic attack.

995
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: He has calmed down by his sister breastfeeding him like

996
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: their mother did. Later is Fiarrella, who repeatedly breastfeeds him

997
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: and with whom he has his first sex. That's just

998
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: two paragraphs. It goes on like that. That's the kind

999
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 1: of books this guy writes like they're the smuttiest smut

1000
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,920
Speaker 1: to ever. I mean, I'm about over the phrase fun

1001
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 1: hungry that you use maybe five minutes ago. He is

1002
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 1: very fun hungry, writing fundamentally fun hungry. Is Gabrielle de Nunzio.

1003
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 1: That is that is twisted. Yeah, but they're wildly successful,

1004
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 1: I mean because because it's it's what's the words, they're

1005
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,880
Speaker 1: the horniest books ever in. Everyone's horny. Yeah, everyone's fun

1006
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 1: hungry when you want it, when you when we're honest,

1007
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:41,320
Speaker 1: everyone's fun. Everybody's fun hungry, and Gabrielle is just leaning

1008
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 1: into it. Like you guys want horny books, I'll write

1009
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:47,320
Speaker 1: the horniest fucking books anyone's ever written. People are sucking

1010
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: each other's sucking each other. Yeah, it's just like the

1011
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:57,879
Speaker 1: most depraved, decadent ship he can think of. But for

1012
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: but for his for his legion of Allower is there

1013
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 1: probably like this is like from his real experience, Like

1014
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 1: he probably did all this stuff because he's like this

1015
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 1: amazing womanizer. I mean he made He probably did a

1016
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: lot of this stuff to be like, yeah he was.

1017
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 1: He didn't have a lot of boundaries. I'm gonna show you.

1018
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna show you his picture at the end of

1019
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 1: this episode. We'll talk about that. Um. He was not

1020
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:25,439
Speaker 1: considered good looking though um. Most of Gabrielle's protagonists were aristocrats,

1021
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: though he himself was not. It's notable that his only

1022
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 1: marriage was to Maria de Galisi, a duchess, and probably

1023
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 1: because marrying her technically made him an aristocrat. To he

1024
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 1: had three children with her, and Christ knows how many

1025
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 1: with other random lovers. He never took care of any

1026
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 1: of these kids. And I'm gonna quote from the New

1027
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: York Times wildly generous. He bestowed upon them custom made

1028
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 1: gifts by buccal Letti and famous guys with flamboyant nicknames

1029
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 1: that bring him, that bring him mind, a pantheon of

1030
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 1: Olympic goddesses bess Alisa, Nike, Barbarrella and of course core

1031
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 1: At the outrageous Marchesa Kasati. Um. Yeah. I don't know

1032
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 1: who any of these people are, but he he's like

1033
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:03,879
Speaker 1: he's always got these loving nicknames that are like really

1034
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 1: like like like out of this world flamboyant, and he

1035
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 1: gives he spends thousands of of of dollars essentially on

1036
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 1: fancy gifts for whoever he's fucking before he abandons them

1037
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 1: love bombing. Yeah. The Nunzio was wildly successful and made

1038
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 1: fortunes from his writing, but he spent those fortunes even

1039
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 1: faster than he could accumulate them. I found a rite

1040
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 1: up on his life on the Rake of Fashion and

1041
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: Style focused magazine, um that makes it clear just how

1042
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,439
Speaker 1: he managed this quote. He could shop until he didn't

1043
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 1: drop endless trips to the tailor, thousands of books, and

1044
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 1: he once even acquired twenty two dogs and eight horses

1045
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 1: all in one purchase. When he stayed in hotels, he

1046
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 1: always traveled with his own sheets. I am, as he

1047
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 1: once explained with characteristic self assuredness, a better decorator and

1048
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 1: a pholsterer than I am a poet or novelist. Indeed,

1049
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 1: at the turn of the century, when his marriage into aristocracy,

1050
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,800
Speaker 1: along with his journalism and plays, afforded him considerable wealth,

1051
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: he habitually lived in rented furnished houses that, at great

1052
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,919
Speaker 1: expense he immediately refurbished extravagant fashion or is he put

1053
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 1: it in a style gorgeous enough to be worthy of

1054
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 1: a Renaissance lord, which involved filling his properties with mock

1055
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:11,399
Speaker 1: sixteenth century furniture of his own design. He's that guy.

1056
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's really funny that he's like,

1057
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 1: I'm an even better upholsterer or and decorator, that I

1058
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 1: am a poet, Like you think I'm good at this, Well, God,

1059
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:24,240
Speaker 1: I'm not good. I'm not bad at anything. Basically, Yes,

1060
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 1: the other people in Gabrielle's life were more distractions to

1061
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,319
Speaker 1: him than real human beings. At one point, when he

1062
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: already had eight horses, he spent the money given to

1063
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: him specifically to feed his kids on buying a new horse.

1064
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,799
Speaker 1: By eight three, he was thirty years old and living

1065
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: in Naples to avoid his creditors because he was just

1066
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 1: in huge debt all the time. He'd long since abandoned

1067
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: his wife and all three children, as well as Elvira Fraternali,

1068
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:49,280
Speaker 1: a woman he lived with and loved for eight years.

1069
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 1: He broke up with her to move in with a

1070
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 1: Sicilian princess. He was actually charged with adultery for this

1071
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 1: and almost went to jail for fucking this princess writing fucking.

1072
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:01,919
Speaker 1: If anyone should go to jail for fucking, it's him. Yeah, yes,

1073
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 1: if anyone should, I'm not normally as long as there's consent,

1074
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 1: well actually there, I mean he should have got to.

1075
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 1: If anyone should go to jail for any kind of fucking,

1076
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 1: it's him. Yeah, it's him. When writing novels and poetry

1077
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:15,840
Speaker 1: wasn't enough to cover his debts, de Nunzio wrote for

1078
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,800
Speaker 1: tabloids and gossip rags. He used his media connections to

1079
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: do things like tip off gossip journalists about when and

1080
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 1: where he would publicly be breaking up with one of

1081
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: his lovers. He started telling fanciful lies that he'd been

1082
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 1: born aboard a boat, that he had a glass eye,

1083
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:29,919
Speaker 1: that he had to bottom ribs removed so he could

1084
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,840
Speaker 1: suck his own dick. Yes, Gabrielle de Nunzio is the

1085
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 1: origin of that? Is he really? Yeah? Yeah, that's where

1086
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:40,279
Speaker 1: that's that's the first time I think we come across it. Yeah,

1087
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 1: he is a ship ahead. But he did start so

1088
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 1: many things, maybe the first poster he started, Oh my god,

1089
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 1: he's wow. I mean yeah, I mean all he's definitely

1090
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 1: of the belief of, like, any press is good press.

1091
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 1: So yes, damn, that's just and his life kind of

1092
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 1: proves that that's true. There's actually I found a couple

1093
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:07,879
Speaker 1: of articles comparing him to Donald Trump, and while he's

1094
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:10,919
Speaker 1: a much more talented person than Trump, um, and did

1095
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 1: succeed on his own merits um there, that's not completely ludicrous,

1096
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 1: as we'll get to, like, there's some there's actually some

1097
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:21,439
Speaker 1: comparisons between the two men. Now, Gabrielle's maxim was one

1098
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 1: must make one's life as one makes a work of art,

1099
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 1: as the Rake notes he was quote a die hard

1100
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: disciple of Baldassari Castiglione, the author of a sixteenth century book,

1101
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: The Book of the Courtier, in which the writer posited

1102
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: what he referred to as the universal rule in all

1103
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 1: human affairs spressa, a facade of nonchalance that concealed the

1104
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 1: artistry required to pull off challenges with a plum, regarded

1105
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 1: even at the time as both romantic and deceptive, and

1106
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 1: almost equal measure. Do Nunzio clearly lived out Castiglione's doctrine,

1107
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: which was described disparagingly by Henry James as beauty at

1108
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 1: any price, beauty appealing alike to the sense and the mind.

1109
00:57:56,120 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 1: So you would not, however, mistake Gabrielle de Nunzio for beautiful.

1110
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 1: By age thirty, he was completely bald. He was he was.

1111
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 1: He was, to his credit, very physically fit and muscular,

1112
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 1: but his teeth were disgusting, his breath was horrible, and

1113
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 1: his voice was high pitched and considered weird by all

1114
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 1: who heard it. Leand de Poui, famous Parisian Cortison met

1115
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 1: him once on a visit to Florence. Here's how she

1116
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,920
Speaker 1: described him. There before me was a frightful gnome with

1117
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 1: red rimmed eyes and no eyelashes, no hair, greenish teeth,

1118
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 1: bad breath, the manners of a mountebank, and the reputation,

1119
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 1: nevertheless for being a ladies man. He just described like

1120
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 1: a goblet looking gred though. This is guy, This is

1121
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 1: the guy that no one can't bone except for the

1122
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 1: women he sexually. I don't know you got I am livid.

1123
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 1: Why I'm so much more angrier than I would be

1124
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 1: if he was good looking? But I am I'm so angry. Yeah,

1125
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 1: well it's it's it's because in my brain I rationalized, like,

1126
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 1: if you're a ladies man and you're good looking, you

1127
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 1: can get away with it, Like you can get away

1128
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 1: with so much ship behavior if you're a good looking person,

1129
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 1: man or woman or anything. If you're a good looking

1130
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 1: to get away with ship, it's like scientifically proven, you

1131
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 1: have an easier life. Whatever. But if you like after

1132
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 1: your your a piece of ship, and you like, are

1133
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 1: repulsive by this description, like Jesus, it's it's remarkable. Um,

1134
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 1: and I don't really understand. And then a breath smelled,

1135
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 1: why would you ever be uh? Like? I mean to

1136
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 1: be honest, Sherine A big part of it just you

1137
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 1: have to understand, like he's he's a great poet, Like

1138
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,520
Speaker 1: that's probably a lot of why is he's like you

1139
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: can be like we almost can't. Like maybe in this context,

1140
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 1: it's like you can be like a really talented musician, right,

1141
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 1: but yeah, maybe, like you know, Ross, it's like you

1142
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 1: hear stories about like some famous rock stars who just

1143
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 1: didn't shower, and we're like these nasty like drug addicts,

1144
00:59:57,600 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 1: but like everybody because like their music was really good

1145
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 1: and that there's just like something about that that can

1146
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 1: overcome an odious other aspects of your personality. You know,

1147
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 1: I will say, I will say talent and ambition or

1148
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 1: maybe ambition, in my opinion, is probably the most attractive quality,

1149
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: but I just can't get over all the other things

1150
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:21,959
Speaker 1: that description, I mean, repulsive description of a human being

1151
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 1: like that is I would say, sorry, I know, I'm

1152
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: just mad, go ahead. I mean, I would say, you

1153
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 1: have to remember. One thing that kind of helps me

1154
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 1: is like look at pictures of like John Lennon with

1155
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 1: his shirt off, and remember that there was a time

1156
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,360
Speaker 1: when everyone in the everyone in the world basically wanted

1157
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 1: to funk John Lennon um and like just take a

1158
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 1: look at that guy shirtless, Like hard to get your

1159
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 1: head around it, but like it's because of the artistic

1160
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 1: not just how his music on its own, but also

1161
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 1: the cultural like like platform he stood on. So we

1162
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 1: we revere these artists. There are as these really artistic

1163
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 1: beautiful souls. Not maybe not beautiful in the in Gabrielle's

1164
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:13,320
Speaker 1: definitely not beautiful. He's revered. Yeah, are you gonna show

1165
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 1: me a photo? Oh yeah, and a little bit so

1166
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. Despite his looks, Gabrielle managed to sleep

1167
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 1: with many of the most beautiful women in Europe, and

1168
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 1: the vast majority of the sex was consensual. His habitual

1169
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 1: rape seemed to be mostly of poorer women. His housekeeper

1170
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 1: was required to have sex with him three times a day,

1171
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 1: whether she wanted to or not. Gabrielle kept his homes

1172
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 1: bizarrely warm at tropical temperatures, so he could wear only

1173
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 1: a light, thin kimono style robe with the special hole

1174
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:42,680
Speaker 1: in the fabric for his dick. He had customed shoes

1175
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 1: shaped like penises. You almost missed the penis. Shoes are

1176
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 1: shaped like penises. This gets more absurd by the sucking second.

1177
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:57,480
Speaker 1: Are you shipping me. You know, maybe I haven't emphasized enough.

1178
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: He's Italian. Does that explain the penis shoes? I'm sorry,

1179
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 1: do you have? Of course, when you when you're Italian

1180
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 1: age eighteen, you get your penis shoes. That's just a

1181
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 1: part of being Italian. I the word Italy means an

1182
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 1: ancient Etruscan land of penissues. Well, yeah, he does a

1183
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:24,480
Speaker 1: little bit now. Gabrielle was, above all else, a genius

1184
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 1: at brand management. He knew how to make Gabrielle de

1185
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:29,480
Speaker 1: Nunzio into a star and to keep himself in the headlines.

1186
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 1: It was crucial to him that people believe him capable

1187
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 1: of literally anything, and so, in pursuit of that end,

1188
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:37,919
Speaker 1: he ran for the Italian Parliament in eighteen ninety seven

1189
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 1: as an independent. He called himself the candidate for Beauty

1190
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 1: and ran on a platform of pushing the politics of poetry.

1191
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:46,400
Speaker 1: A big fan of Nietzsche, he declared that he was

1192
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:49,480
Speaker 1: beyond right and left, as I am beyond good and evil.

1193
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 1: In a way, Gabrielle was kind of a prototype for

1194
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, as well as Adolf Hitler, the first man

1195
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 1: to take his literary fame and pop culture cash a

1196
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 1: and turn it into political power. But when it came

1197
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 1: to actually staying in power, do Nunzio decided he really

1198
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:06,280
Speaker 1: hated politics. He served one term and never held any

1199
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:09,120
Speaker 1: kind of legitimate public office. Again. So he's like the

1200
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:11,439
Speaker 1: first guy to take like he's just a famous guy

1201
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 1: for being famous mostly yeah, like his I mean, he's

1202
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 1: a great poet, but like he's he's also really just

1203
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 1: famous for being a celebrity. And he turns that into

1204
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 1: political power, and that's really hasn't been done, you know,

1205
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 1: in the way that he did it. Um, that is fascinating.

1206
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 1: Also side note that I I'm still thinking about the kimono.

1207
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, um, because if the temperatures are so high

1208
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:37,760
Speaker 1: and that it keeps in this tropical level, I just

1209
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:42,760
Speaker 1: I watched Curb Your Curb, Curb Your Enthusiasm. I watched

1210
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 1: that for the first time recently. All I'm all caught up.

1211
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:50,080
Speaker 1: But there's this one episode with like, uh Leon his roommate,

1212
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 1: fucking yoga teacher, a high yoga teacher. Apparently uh warmer

1213
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 1: temperatures accorinth this episode good for orgasms, so maybe he

1214
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 1: was onto something. Maybe. Yeah, then again, I'm sorry, I

1215
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 1: U but and I will say like this was not

1216
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 1: like he was not like a one sided sort of

1217
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:11,919
Speaker 1: lover um like he was. He was real into Connor

1218
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 1: lingus and wrote about it. I mean it pages sometimes

1219
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 1: he said he consensual, it's most of it. Most of

1220
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 1: the people that have wanted to have sex with him,

1221
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:23,439
Speaker 1: So um, it's yeah. But yeah, I mean, like, would

1222
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 1: you say that his use of like his brand of

1223
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:30,960
Speaker 1: narcissistic politics, like using his platform to become a politician,

1224
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 1: Like was that not what like Reagan did? Or like

1225
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:38,440
Speaker 1: or Reagan? Sorry, I say, yeah, I just pronounced. I

1226
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:40,680
Speaker 1: say how I think it's it's pronounced. He was my

1227
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:44,480
Speaker 1: second language, leave me alone. Yeah, like Reagan, Like since

1228
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 1: de Nunzio, a lot of people have done that. Um,

1229
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 1: but he's kind of he first thing, the first Yeah,

1230
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 1: who's just really mostly famous for his fame and then

1231
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 1: takes turns that into a political career. And this is

1232
01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 1: not the end of his political career, just his end

1233
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 1: as an elected political a leader. So keep that in mind. Yeah,

1234
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 1: I even stepped foot into the fascism. Fascism Jesus were

1235
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 1: there's so much about this guy. His debts were so

1236
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:13,000
Speaker 1: outrageous by nineteen ten that do Nunzio was forced to

1237
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 1: flee Italy for Paris, where he made a film, collaborated

1238
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 1: with some of the greatest artists of the day, and

1239
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 1: became friends with Proust. American whiskey heiress Natalie Barney wrote

1240
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 1: about this time quote, he was the rage. A woman

1241
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 1: who had not slept with him made herself ridiculed. He

1242
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:30,600
Speaker 1: even managed to bed Romayne Brooks, a famous lesbian artist,

1243
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 1: who wound up painting his portrait. So like, again, you

1244
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 1: really can't. It's hard to understand, like the level of

1245
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 1: fame to where like and a famous lesbian would be like, yeah,

1246
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:42,680
Speaker 1: I gotta suck him, Like, I just gotta see what's

1247
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 1: going on there. It's crazy, it's wild. Yes, actually you'll

1248
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 1: see it. Um, you'll get a cent for the size. Yeah,

1249
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:57,000
Speaker 1: it's in like a banana hammock in the picture I'm

1250
01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 1: going to show you. And it's not smart. I will

1251
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 1: I'll say at um. As the years in Paris ticked along,

1252
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:06,600
Speaker 1: Gabrielle found himself less and less enthralled with high society

1253
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:08,880
Speaker 1: and more obsessed with the war clouds on the horizon.

1254
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:11,200
Speaker 1: The actual start of World War One came as a

1255
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 1: surprise to most but for years prior to the war,

1256
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 1: every observant person in Europe had been aware that some

1257
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:19,720
Speaker 1: sort of violent conflict was very nearly like coming. Artists

1258
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 1: who recognized this wound up in one of two camps.

1259
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 1: Many dreaded it and worked to do all they could

1260
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 1: to pull Europe back from the Precipice. Gabrielle, however, wound

1261
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 1: up in another camp. He saw it as his duty,

1262
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 1: as a lover of beauty, to push Europe into calamity.

1263
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:35,040
Speaker 1: This seems insane to us now, and it is fucking crazy,

1264
01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 1: But the Nunzio was not alone in this. I'm gonna

1265
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 1: read again from Lucy Hughes Hollett's biography quote and the

1266
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:45,520
Speaker 1: political rhetoric and poetry of the period. Civilian existence is gray, dim,

1267
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 1: morally compromised, and physically grubby. The battlefield, by contrast, is bright,

1268
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 1: a glitter with weapons and flashing with joy. Above all,

1269
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 1: it is clean. When Britain declared war, Rupert Brooke proclaimed

1270
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 1: his gladness to leave the sick hearts that honor could

1271
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:01,680
Speaker 1: not move and half men and their dirty songs and dreary.

1272
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:04,440
Speaker 1: Like de Nunzio, Brooks saw the war as a saving

1273
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 1: freshness into which he could plunge as swimmers into cleanness

1274
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 1: leaping in Germany, Thomas Man welcomed the conflict as a

1275
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:14,000
Speaker 1: purging and a liberation. Let the storm come, cried the

1276
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:16,640
Speaker 1: Hungarian does. So, I'm not even gonna try to pronounce

1277
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:19,520
Speaker 1: this guy's last name and sweep out our salons. So like,

1278
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 1: there's this idea that like society is decadent. There's all

1279
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 1: these like young, like lazy, like like children of privilege

1280
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:29,640
Speaker 1: sitting around drinking coffee and talking about politics. We need

1281
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 1: a war to kill a bunch of them and make

1282
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 1: the others into better people, clean out these crowded cities.

1283
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 1: That's like a sizeable chunk of particularly, Like the intelligencia

1284
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:45,720
Speaker 1: in this period is into this idea. Yeah, yeah, they

1285
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: kind of are. Um. Gabrielle de Nunzio had become a

1286
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:52,120
Speaker 1: fervent nationalist by this point, an adherent of a school

1287
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 1: of Italian thought that believed the new nation new to

1288
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 1: reabsorb or conquer a number of states that we're currently

1289
01:07:57,240 --> 01:08:01,080
Speaker 1: its neighbors. But historically they believed Italian this included much

1290
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:03,880
Speaker 1: of what became Yugoslavia. But Gabrielle didn't just see the

1291
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:06,600
Speaker 1: coming war as a chance for italyad again lost territory.

1292
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:09,439
Speaker 1: He saw it as a beautiful aesthetic endeavor in its

1293
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:12,960
Speaker 1: own right. He believed that quote a great conflict of

1294
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:16,840
Speaker 1: the races would purge society of its weak elements as

1295
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 1: soon as the guns started pounding. In nineteen fourteen, while

1296
01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 1: Gabrielle was still living in France, he had a friend

1297
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:23,720
Speaker 1: drive him as close to the front lines as he

1298
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:26,519
Speaker 1: could possibly get. They wound up in a place called Rhems,

1299
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:29,800
Speaker 1: where German artillery had just destroyed an ancient and famous cathedral,

1300
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:33,000
Speaker 1: taking a valet and several suitcases full of clothing with him.

1301
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:34,960
Speaker 1: Of course, Gabrielle wound up in the middle of the

1302
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:37,880
Speaker 1: front line, watching artillery land just a few hundred meters

1303
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:39,559
Speaker 1: ahead of him, and seeing the corpses of men and

1304
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:43,080
Speaker 1: animals rotting in the mud. He immediately grabbed souvenirs and

1305
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 1: started taking fastidious notes. He used these notes to write

1306
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:49,200
Speaker 1: an article about the German vandalism of the Rhems Cathedral.

1307
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:52,080
Speaker 1: He hadn't actually watched the cathedral's destruction, but he had

1308
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 1: no problem lying in describing how with his own eyes

1309
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 1: he'd watched them burn it. Gabrielle de Nunzio despised Germans,

1310
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:00,960
Speaker 1: considering them a barbaric and disgusting pace. The goal of

1311
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:02,800
Speaker 1: his article was to try and push his nation into

1312
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 1: joining with France and Great Britain in the war. Now,

1313
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:08,799
Speaker 1: Italy had entered World War One as an ally of Germany,

1314
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:11,240
Speaker 1: but no one in the country was particularly interested in

1315
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:14,599
Speaker 1: actually entering the war on Germany's side. In fact, most

1316
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:16,679
Speaker 1: of the country wanted to stay out of the war entirely.

1317
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:18,720
Speaker 1: Given how World War One went, this was not a

1318
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:21,639
Speaker 1: bad call. But Gabrielle wanted Italy to go to war

1319
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 1: more than he'd ever wanted anything in his entire life,

1320
01:09:24,320 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 1: and he set at once to the task of dragging

1321
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:28,639
Speaker 1: his country with him. As soon as he got back

1322
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:31,679
Speaker 1: from Italy in mid nineteen fifteen, he began giving speeches,

1323
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:33,320
Speaker 1: and I'm going to quote from an article in The

1324
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 1: New Republic about this quote. Italy was no longer a

1325
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:40,360
Speaker 1: pension de familia of museum, but a living nation, he

1326
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:44,120
Speaker 1: declared in one interventionalist, demagoguic speech to General Acclaim, the

1327
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:47,960
Speaker 1: prospect of mass deaths thrilled him. Benedito Kross was repelled

1328
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:50,759
Speaker 1: by his seeming to enjoy war, even to enjoy slaughter,

1329
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:52,680
Speaker 1: as he was. How it puts it, the politics of

1330
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:55,759
Speaker 1: beauty was revealing itself as a politics of blood. Among

1331
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 1: his ardent supporters where Marinetti's futurists, who had recognized early

1332
01:09:59,160 --> 01:10:01,240
Speaker 1: on that for all his fondness for classical art and

1333
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:04,200
Speaker 1: medieval knickknacks do, Nunzio was a fellow modern, a poet

1334
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 1: who rhapsodized over warships and steel works, and who set

1335
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 1: a higher value on energy than he did on virtue.

1336
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:13,440
Speaker 1: Genoa is where he first started haranguing the masses towards apocalypse,

1337
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 1: and his first four days there he spoke seven times.

1338
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:18,760
Speaker 1: The Italian government itself was torn over the question of war.

1339
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:20,800
Speaker 1: The Queen Mother desired it dearly, but most of the

1340
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:23,680
Speaker 1: elected leaders were firmly against the idea. They hated that

1341
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:26,240
Speaker 1: Denunzio was ranting about the need to destroy Germany while

1342
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:28,560
Speaker 1: they carried on secret negotiations to try to plot the

1343
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:32,839
Speaker 1: national course. Standing on balconies and shouting to increasingly large crowds,

1344
01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:34,800
Speaker 1: he urged his countrymen to pull out of the Triple

1345
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:37,719
Speaker 1: Alliance and join the Entent with France, Britain and Russia.

1346
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:40,559
Speaker 1: He was not content just to attack Germany and make

1347
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 1: the case for war. Gabrielle de Nunzio made a habit

1348
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:46,839
Speaker 1: of viciously attacking any politician who spoke out against his whims.

1349
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 1: He called them cowards and appeasers, the enemies within. He said,

1350
01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:53,639
Speaker 1: the old order reeks and must be utterly destroyed. Sweep

1351
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:55,600
Speaker 1: away all the filth into the sewer with all that

1352
01:10:55,720 --> 01:11:00,559
Speaker 1: is vile. He called the current political order infected, diseased, corrupt, defiled,

1353
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:03,959
Speaker 1: and he said the only solution was cauterization. The corruption

1354
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:07,840
Speaker 1: must be burned out. Gabrielle called repeatedly for a holocaust

1355
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:10,920
Speaker 1: to cleanse the body politic. Holocaust was in fact one

1356
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 1: of his most frequently used words, and in a positive sense.

1357
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:17,439
Speaker 1: Foreign reporters who watched him were almost as enraptured as

1358
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:20,760
Speaker 1: the crowds. Jean Carere, a French reporter, wrote, never have

1359
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:23,480
Speaker 1: I seen an orator advanced before the public with such composure.

1360
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:26,559
Speaker 1: Standing on his improvised tribune, he was magnificently alone of

1361
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:30,080
Speaker 1: a marble pallor with two eyes aflame. And when Gabrielle

1362
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 1: spoke to crowds, they didn't just listen, they acted in

1363
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:36,240
Speaker 1: May nineteen fifteen, he made it to Rome and gave

1364
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:38,519
Speaker 1: what would become one of his most infamous tirades. And

1365
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:41,759
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote from Lucy Hughes Hallett again. He attacked

1366
01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:44,599
Speaker 1: the advocates of peace in vitriolic terms. The very air

1367
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,439
Speaker 1: of Rome's stank with their treachery. Those who still hung

1368
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:51,480
Speaker 1: back from war were traitors, assassins of the Patria Italy's executioners.

1369
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:54,600
Speaker 1: Geo Liddi, one of these politicians he hated, was strangling

1370
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:57,200
Speaker 1: the nation with a Prussian rope. Do Nunzio was openly

1371
01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:00,680
Speaker 1: advocating violent attacks on the people's elected represent innatives. He

1372
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:02,920
Speaker 1: called upon the Roman mob to take the law into

1373
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:05,400
Speaker 1: their own hands. He urged his listeners to attack the

1374
01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:08,559
Speaker 1: appeasers who licked the boots on sweaty Prussian feet. He

1375
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:11,320
Speaker 1: called for stonings and arson. His rhetoric was becoming ever

1376
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:14,080
Speaker 1: more frenzied. I tell you there is treason here in Rome.

1377
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:16,639
Speaker 1: We were being sold like a herd of diseased cattle.

1378
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:19,600
Speaker 1: He urged the people to hunt down anti war deputies

1379
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 1: form squads. Squadrow was one of the many words the

1380
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:25,080
Speaker 1: fascists would pick up from him. Lie in wait, seize them,

1381
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:28,040
Speaker 1: capture them. An observer reports that the applause when he

1382
01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:30,599
Speaker 1: paused was like a storm. When he resumed to denounce

1383
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:34,320
Speaker 1: Geolyddi and ever more vituperative terms, that diabolical old blubber

1384
01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:37,800
Speaker 1: lipped hangman, the storm was transformed into a cyclone. Do

1385
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 1: Nunzio was high on his own eloquence. On the frenzy

1386
01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:42,040
Speaker 1: of the crowds, he flattered and inflamed, and on the

1387
01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:44,800
Speaker 1: prospect of blood. Fifty two years old, he extolled the

1388
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 1: ruthless purity of youth. A poet whose life's work had

1389
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:49,800
Speaker 1: been the threading together of obscure and beautiful words, he

1390
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:52,840
Speaker 1: inveighed against verbiage and called for action, swift, cruel if

1391
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:55,719
Speaker 1: need be, and unambiguous. It is not the time for speaking,

1392
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:58,080
Speaker 1: but for doing. He ended by leading the crowd in

1393
01:12:58,120 --> 01:13:00,760
Speaker 1: an anthem beating time with his little hand at white hands,

1394
01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:03,120
Speaker 1: while the people below bellowed out the reframe. Let us

1395
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:05,640
Speaker 1: join the cohord. We are ready to die. Italy has

1396
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:12,640
Speaker 1: called damn. Yeah, fame is terrifying. You're seeing some of

1397
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:15,839
Speaker 1: the fascists of creep in here. Yeah, I mean, fame

1398
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:21,880
Speaker 1: is terrifying. And he obviously used this like visceral um

1399
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:26,400
Speaker 1: quality of his writing into his speeches. Obviously like he is,

1400
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:29,639
Speaker 1: he's a good words smith, Like that's that's been already proven.

1401
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:33,439
Speaker 1: But like it's so terrifying when someone is already so

1402
01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:38,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, praise and lauded for being this amazing thinker.

1403
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:41,040
Speaker 1: He's obviously going to have a huge legion of people

1404
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:43,960
Speaker 1: follow him when in anything he does, even if it's

1405
01:13:44,040 --> 01:13:46,679
Speaker 1: to tell people to pick up a weapon and and

1406
01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:50,760
Speaker 1: be violent. And the fact that Hall compsly were that

1407
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:52,960
Speaker 1: he used so much, like that's so telling of like

1408
01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:55,720
Speaker 1: the kind of mentality he had, even if he did

1409
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:58,960
Speaker 1: despise Germany, Like he definitely had similarities to Hitler in

1410
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:01,680
Speaker 1: that regard of like rounding people together and being an

1411
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:06,920
Speaker 1: amazing speech person like a speech giver. Um. So disturbing

1412
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:09,799
Speaker 1: because I think that's that's a huge reason why fame

1413
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:13,840
Speaker 1: an influence really freaks me out, is because you have

1414
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:16,719
Speaker 1: all these people follow you blindly, just like with Trump.

1415
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:19,400
Speaker 1: Trump has the same thing. The people I hate the

1416
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:21,840
Speaker 1: people in the rallies that I see, I hate the

1417
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:26,880
Speaker 1: people behind Trump that are clapping every dumb bullshit thing

1418
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:29,839
Speaker 1: he says I hate that more than I hate Trump, honestly,

1419
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:36,120
Speaker 1: because they're just sheep. I don't know, you know, I

1420
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:39,200
Speaker 1: actually know. I don't want to say sheep. Sorry, that's

1421
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:43,919
Speaker 1: I think people. People are intelligent, but they're also desperate

1422
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:48,479
Speaker 1: to belong. And if someone is just like rolling people

1423
01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:51,320
Speaker 1: together for a cause that he thinks is like, well,

1424
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:56,639
Speaker 1: better humanity, I don't know. I think what you're getting

1425
01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:58,560
Speaker 1: at and I think the reality both of White and

1426
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:02,080
Speaker 1: Nunzio was successful in White Trump is is that everyone

1427
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:05,040
Speaker 1: has this very deep understanding in our society as they

1428
01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:09,040
Speaker 1: did then that like something's wrong. Um, things shouldn't be

1429
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:11,160
Speaker 1: as fucked up at hard as they are, Like this

1430
01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:14,480
Speaker 1: shouldn't be as messed up as it is. Someone is responsible.

1431
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 1: And if you are able to tell people who is

1432
01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 1: responsible and convince them of who it is, um, and

1433
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:24,800
Speaker 1: then invade upon that group or that person with the

1434
01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:28,080
Speaker 1: kind of rage that everyone has in their heart, um,

1435
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 1: whether or not it's directed, everyone has that anger in

1436
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:33,080
Speaker 1: our society because we all know ship's sucked up. If

1437
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:35,680
Speaker 1: you can convince people that you found the people who

1438
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:38,679
Speaker 1: have sucked up the ship and then express the hatred

1439
01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:40,760
Speaker 1: that is in their hearts, you can give them to

1440
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:43,200
Speaker 1: do anything, and that's all that matters. They don't care

1441
01:15:43,240 --> 01:15:46,800
Speaker 1: about laws, they don't care about precedent, they don't care

1442
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:49,000
Speaker 1: about history, they don't even care about their own health.

1443
01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:51,919
Speaker 1: To a certain extent, if you are able to convince

1444
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:55,000
Speaker 1: them of the group that's responsible for their pain and

1445
01:15:55,240 --> 01:15:57,479
Speaker 1: express the hatred that's in their heart towards that group,

1446
01:15:57,560 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 1: and that's what do Nunzio is good at. That's what

1447
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:01,439
Speaker 1: Hitler is good at, That's what Trump's good at. You

1448
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:05,000
Speaker 1: described what I was trying to articulate in a much

1449
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:08,760
Speaker 1: better way, because that's what's terrifying, is that what you said,

1450
01:16:08,840 --> 01:16:11,200
Speaker 1: you can get them to do anything, because that's completely

1451
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:13,800
Speaker 1: what's what happens, and it works. It works on all

1452
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:15,960
Speaker 1: of us. Yeah, it works. I mean, I mean to

1453
01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:18,479
Speaker 1: be honest, like, I a lot of the success of

1454
01:16:18,479 --> 01:16:21,960
Speaker 1: this podcast UM, which has been very successful and UM

1455
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:24,320
Speaker 1: has has done a lot for my career and has

1456
01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:27,439
Speaker 1: built up a fan base that's very is very like

1457
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 1: loyal UM and active is because what we focus on

1458
01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:34,720
Speaker 1: is talking about like these are the assholes responsible for

1459
01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:37,599
Speaker 1: why ship is so fucked up? UM, Like the most

1460
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:41,080
Speaker 1: powerful thing in the world is is harnessing the anger

1461
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 1: that exists in all of us because of the damage

1462
01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 1: nature of our society and directing it. It's not an

1463
01:16:46,120 --> 01:16:48,679
Speaker 1: inherently harmful But Bernie Sanders is appeal. There's a lot

1464
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:51,760
Speaker 1: in his ability to say this is why ship's fucked up,

1465
01:16:52,040 --> 01:16:54,200
Speaker 1: this is who you should be angry at. We need

1466
01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 1: to fix now. He doesn't, i would say, in a

1467
01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:58,559
Speaker 1: non toxic way, in a productive way. It doesn't have

1468
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:01,400
Speaker 1: to be a horrible thing. Because the anger is real,

1469
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:04,479
Speaker 1: and the anger that Trump's fans feel, the rage, they're

1470
01:17:04,479 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 1: not directing it in the right direction, but that rage

1471
01:17:06,560 --> 01:17:09,439
Speaker 1: is utterly earned in most cases. No, I completely agree.

1472
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:12,800
Speaker 1: I think directing the anger is such a powerful tool

1473
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 1: to and being able to to harness that is a

1474
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:18,400
Speaker 1: terrifying quality when you used it in the wrong way,

1475
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:21,000
Speaker 1: which is what Hillar did, which is what Denunzio is

1476
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:23,680
Speaker 1: doing or did, and what I'm going to do in

1477
01:17:23,720 --> 01:17:27,439
Speaker 1: my new cult. So stay tuned, um very excited. We're

1478
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:29,439
Speaker 1: going to buy a compound. It's gonna be like that

1479
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:36,200
Speaker 1: machete is as far as the eye can see. It's

1480
01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:41,360
Speaker 1: gonna be glorious. Now. On multiple occasions, crowds rioted after

1481
01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:44,360
Speaker 1: de nunzio speeches. Several times they attempted to break into

1482
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:47,160
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister's home in order to murder him. The

1483
01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 1: violence only encouraged De Nunzio further, and he repeatedly urged

1484
01:17:50,479 --> 01:17:54,080
Speaker 1: good citizens to take vengeance on lying politicians. If blood flows,

1485
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:56,320
Speaker 1: such blood will be as blessed as that in the trenches,

1486
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:58,960
Speaker 1: he said, drawing a direct line between political murder and

1487
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:01,559
Speaker 1: the national war f it. Shortly after that speech, some

1488
01:18:01,640 --> 01:18:03,720
Speaker 1: of his supporters stole a fire truck and used its

1489
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:05,400
Speaker 1: ladder to try to break into the home of one

1490
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:08,680
Speaker 1: of his political opponents. Lucy Hughes Howett writes, he was

1491
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:12,439
Speaker 1: fast developing a brilliantly manipulative oratorical technique. He allowed his

1492
01:18:12,479 --> 01:18:15,280
Speaker 1: public no break in his contrivances. Of their hysteria. He

1493
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 1: played on them with rhetorical tricks borrowed from religious liturgy

1494
01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:21,519
Speaker 1: or from classical drama. Hear me, he cried, Listen to me,

1495
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:24,400
Speaker 1: understand me. The crowd was urged to join him, howling

1496
01:18:24,439 --> 01:18:28,160
Speaker 1: out responses to insistent Aviva's These were not speeches to

1497
01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:31,800
Speaker 1: be rationally appraised, but acts of collective self hypnosis. Do

1498
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 1: Nunzio's work as a dramatist had frequently been grandiose and

1499
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:38,240
Speaker 1: conception spectacular in their staging, and appalling for the violence

1500
01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:41,040
Speaker 1: of their sentiments, but never before he had produced anything

1501
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:44,080
Speaker 1: like the shows he put on that radiant may the

1502
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:46,599
Speaker 1: sheer rage he worked these crowds and two eventually made

1503
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:50,280
Speaker 1: any outcome but war basically impossible. Most of Donunzio's enemies

1504
01:18:50,280 --> 01:18:53,479
Speaker 1: fled the city, the prime minister stepped down. Historian Mark

1505
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:56,200
Speaker 1: Thompson calls what de Nunzio achieved a coupa tall and

1506
01:18:56,280 --> 01:18:59,240
Speaker 1: all but name. The leader of the Socialist Party, Filippo

1507
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:03,360
Speaker 1: Turati roofly and accurately exclaimed, let the bourgeoisie have its war.

1508
01:19:03,640 --> 01:19:07,760
Speaker 1: There will be no winners. Everyone will lose well. On

1509
01:19:07,800 --> 01:19:11,920
Speaker 1: May eleven, days after Gabriel de Nunzio entered Rome, Italy

1510
01:19:11,960 --> 01:19:15,400
Speaker 1: declared war on Austria Hungary. There is, of course, significant

1511
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:17,280
Speaker 1: debate over whether or not Italy would have entered the

1512
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:20,040
Speaker 1: war on this side without de Nunzio. Historians will note

1513
01:19:20,040 --> 01:19:22,599
Speaker 1: that the Pact of London, which set out Italy's new alliance,

1514
01:19:22,800 --> 01:19:24,880
Speaker 1: had been on a negotiation for a while by the

1515
01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:27,519
Speaker 1: time he arrived in Italy, but most historians agree he

1516
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:30,040
Speaker 1: had at least a very significant impact in pushing his

1517
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:33,200
Speaker 1: country into World War One. By the end of that war,

1518
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:36,040
Speaker 1: more than four hundred and sixty thousand Italians would be dead,

1519
01:19:36,240 --> 01:19:38,879
Speaker 1: more than nine hundred and fifty five thousand would be wounded.

1520
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:42,000
Speaker 1: The Old Order of Europe died, and Gabrielle de Nunzio

1521
01:19:42,080 --> 01:19:44,840
Speaker 1: helped to kill that too. His career, though, was just

1522
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:49,559
Speaker 1: getting started. And now, Sharine, Sophie, would you scroll to

1523
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:53,559
Speaker 1: the bottom of the script? Oh, but you have to

1524
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:57,400
Speaker 1: he she has to see the Dunzio. This is the best.

1525
01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:03,519
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I just can't believe. I just I

1526
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:06,120
Speaker 1: don't know. I let's let's look a band aid, let's

1527
01:20:06,160 --> 01:20:09,720
Speaker 1: rub it off. Come on, okay, bro, here here he

1528
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:18,639
Speaker 1: is and she just grabbed. What the fuck are you

1529
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:26,720
Speaker 1: shitting me? Okay, first of all, but then a hammock hilarious. Um,

1530
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:30,040
Speaker 1: he does look like he is packing heat. But he

1531
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:33,280
Speaker 1: is packing heat. Yeah, but he's he's pretty stacked, he's

1532
01:20:33,320 --> 01:20:36,320
Speaker 1: pretty yoked. He's just skinny. What do you mean, he's

1533
01:20:36,360 --> 01:20:39,880
Speaker 1: not yoked, just tiny. He's got well, you gotta admit,

1534
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:41,840
Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta remember to like people didn't know

1535
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:43,760
Speaker 1: to build muscle then the way they do now. Like

1536
01:20:43,800 --> 01:20:46,240
Speaker 1: he's pretty. I mean, yeah, he doesn't have to it

1537
01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:48,519
Speaker 1: on and I'll give him that, But he's also like

1538
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:52,360
Speaker 1: if anyone that's listening to this in the beginning was

1539
01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:58,479
Speaker 1: imagining this like attractive, womanizing, seducing, whatever, this is not

1540
01:20:58,600 --> 01:21:02,640
Speaker 1: the guy. But he didn't know. I mean, like a

1541
01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:07,479
Speaker 1: champion for short guys, unfortunately for for all. But yeah,

1542
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:09,519
Speaker 1: you already have Napoleon. What ward do you want? I

1543
01:21:09,479 --> 01:21:13,519
Speaker 1: don't know, Um, Jesus, he's that's a hilarious photo. By

1544
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:16,720
Speaker 1: the way, this photo, he's completely naked other than this

1545
01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:21,520
Speaker 1: banana thong and his arms are at his hips posed

1546
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:25,320
Speaker 1: for this photo. His mustache is curled up. Didn't know

1547
01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:27,759
Speaker 1: he had a mustache, by the way. Um, yeah, bald

1548
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:30,200
Speaker 1: with a curled up mustache. You got to see the picture.

1549
01:21:31,680 --> 01:21:35,559
Speaker 1: He looks like if Adam's Silver, the NBA commissioner and

1550
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:40,719
Speaker 1: Colonel Sanders had a baby and that baby was a creep. Yeah,

1551
01:21:41,560 --> 01:21:44,040
Speaker 1: I would say, if you have creep, if you look

1552
01:21:44,080 --> 01:21:47,360
Speaker 1: up creep, that's what I imagine. If you watch the

1553
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:51,680
Speaker 1: TV show Community, he looks like Pierce's father. Um, Like

1554
01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:55,639
Speaker 1: he's that exact building size. He's just this like weird

1555
01:21:55,720 --> 01:22:00,559
Speaker 1: little bald. He's a little he's smile. Yeah, convinced his

1556
01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:06,559
Speaker 1: country to the dumbest he humanized personified whatever he does

1557
01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:11,120
Speaker 1: look a lot like Schmiegel. Yeah anyway, yea, how you

1558
01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:20,840
Speaker 1: feeling after? Um, I've learned a lot. I think we

1559
01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:23,200
Speaker 1: had a good like bonding time you and I. To

1560
01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:25,519
Speaker 1: be honest, I feel like we just veriprize each other

1561
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:27,679
Speaker 1: a bit in parts of this episode, which I feel

1562
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:29,920
Speaker 1: kind of like nice about. I think we're good friends now.

1563
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:36,439
Speaker 1: Um effect, oh god, don't give him credit, give him more.

1564
01:22:38,160 --> 01:22:41,320
Speaker 1: I would like credit for the friendship. Thank you, Sophie.

1565
01:22:41,320 --> 01:22:43,280
Speaker 1: I will give you the credit. I mean, this episode

1566
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:46,799
Speaker 1: has convinced me, among other things, to buy a banana hammock.

1567
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:50,360
Speaker 1: That seems like a good decision. This episode has convinced me,

1568
01:22:50,479 --> 01:22:54,320
Speaker 1: among other things, that you should not have children. But sorry,

1569
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:58,160
Speaker 1: I'm kidding if you would be a great dad all seriousness,

1570
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:02,320
Speaker 1: Just don't give that seems like that seems like a

1571
01:23:02,360 --> 01:23:06,519
Speaker 1: long reach to make Sharene I've learned a lot. I

1572
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:12,640
Speaker 1: can't wait to learn more. And uh and um really yeah,

1573
01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:15,560
Speaker 1: just the turn of this guy's life. What an eventful,

1574
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:19,880
Speaker 1: awful way to leave the world. He's not lazy. You

1575
01:23:19,960 --> 01:23:22,000
Speaker 1: gotta say that for the man. He accomplished a lot,

1576
01:23:22,080 --> 01:23:25,040
Speaker 1: a very productive like back in the day. I mean

1577
01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:26,840
Speaker 1: we have that saying now, like you have as many

1578
01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:29,240
Speaker 1: hours in the days Beyonce does. Back in the day,

1579
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:31,479
Speaker 1: you have as many hours in the day as as

1580
01:23:31,800 --> 01:23:33,240
Speaker 1: as done as you has. You know what I mean?

1581
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:37,840
Speaker 1: What have you? What country have you demolished today? Um? Yeah?

1582
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:41,840
Speaker 1: What what world order have you destroyed? Exactly? What generation

1583
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:44,840
Speaker 1: have you sent into machine gun nests? Robert? Do you

1584
01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:47,519
Speaker 1: think we can get a Banana Hammick sponsorship? That's just

1585
01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:50,800
Speaker 1: my only Oh I hope I want a Banana Hammick

1586
01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:52,920
Speaker 1: sponsorship And I would love it if we could get

1587
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:55,040
Speaker 1: if we could like get a ward to sponsors too,

1588
01:23:55,360 --> 01:23:57,640
Speaker 1: like that would be really good. Like I feel like

1589
01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:00,559
Speaker 1: there's a lot of really good wars going on right now,

1590
01:24:00,600 --> 01:24:02,880
Speaker 1: and one of them should sponsor this podcast. I mean,

1591
01:24:03,160 --> 01:24:09,479
Speaker 1: Lord knows they have the money, so exactly. Yeah, great, yeah, well, Sharine,

1592
01:24:09,520 --> 01:24:11,400
Speaker 1: you want to plug your plug doables? Oh yeah, I'm

1593
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:15,880
Speaker 1: Sharene and I am a co host of a podcast

1594
01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:18,519
Speaker 1: called Ethnically Ambiguous. It's on the I Heart Radio Network.

1595
01:24:18,520 --> 01:24:20,800
Speaker 1: It's ethnically should look it up. It's everywhere you find

1596
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:23,439
Speaker 1: your podcast. I'm Shiro Hero s h E r O

1597
01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:25,840
Speaker 1: H E r O on Instagram and Shiro Hero six

1598
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:30,880
Speaker 1: six six on Twitter, and uh yeah, that's about it.

1599
01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:32,479
Speaker 1: I have a poetry book if you guys want to

1600
01:24:32,680 --> 01:24:37,080
Speaker 1: like the poetry talks on Amazon. There on my next one.

1601
01:24:37,920 --> 01:24:42,920
Speaker 1: Read Sharine's poetry for her ego turn her into a

1602
01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:48,799
Speaker 1: monstrous sociopath who needs the world into a tremendous calamity. Honestly,

1603
01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:52,000
Speaker 1: I'm just waiting to sell out, so please let's make

1604
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:56,080
Speaker 1: this are just begging. I would love to sell out,

1605
01:24:56,080 --> 01:24:59,280
Speaker 1: so make it happen. And I'm Robert Evans. You can

1606
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:01,040
Speaker 1: find me on Twitter. I right, okay. I can find

1607
01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:03,160
Speaker 1: this podcast on the Internet and behind the bastards dot

1608
01:25:03,160 --> 01:25:05,400
Speaker 1: com where you can find sources in this picture of

1609
01:25:05,439 --> 01:25:08,360
Speaker 1: the Nunzio and his banana hammock um. You can find

1610
01:25:08,439 --> 01:25:10,920
Speaker 1: us on Twitter and Instagram and at Bastards pod. Uh

1611
01:25:10,920 --> 01:25:14,040
Speaker 1: and you can find me fully embracing the lessons of

1612
01:25:14,080 --> 01:25:17,240
Speaker 1: Gabrielle de Nunzio when I create my cult and plunge

1613
01:25:17,280 --> 01:25:19,439
Speaker 1: the world into a new dark age. So like look

1614
01:25:19,479 --> 01:25:21,320
Speaker 1: forward to that. It's gonna be a real good time

1615
01:25:21,400 --> 01:25:25,479
Speaker 1: free machetes for all. Um. Yeah, that's the episode. Have

1616
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:26,160
Speaker 1: a good one y'all.