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Speaker 1: Yeah, I just had this passion for being outside, being

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Speaker 1: in the mountains, and it in my academic life it

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Speaker 1: took me to geology, and in my athletic life, it

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Speaker 1: took me to trail running.

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Speaker 2: Hey everyone, Emily a body here.

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Speaker 3: You are listening to episode two hundred and sixty five

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Speaker 3: of Hurdle a While, this.

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Speaker 2: Focused podcast where I connect with everyone from your favorite.

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Speaker 3: Athletes to top experts and industry CEOs about their highest highs,

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Speaker 3: toughest moments, and everything in between. We all go through

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Speaker 3: hurdles in life, and my goal through these discussions is

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Speaker 3: to empower you to better navigate yours and move with

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Speaker 3: intention so that you can stride towards your own big

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Speaker 3: potential and of course have some fun along the way. Now,

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Speaker 3: if you listened to five Minute Friday last week, then

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Speaker 3: you know that I am clearly both back and better.

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Speaker 2: The voice is better.

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Speaker 3: I am back in Brooklyn after the most amazing week

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Speaker 3: at Ultra Trail de mont Blanc in Shamanie, France, and

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Speaker 3: it is very special that I'm bringing you today's guest

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Speaker 3: because she came in second place at the race's occ

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Speaker 3: event last week, which is a fifty k trail race

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Speaker 3: for episode two hundred and sixty five, I am chatting

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Speaker 3: with ultra runner Katie Shide. Originally from Maine, the thirty

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Speaker 3: one year old now lives in France with her partners

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Speaker 3: Germain Granger. Note that she says his name a whole

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Speaker 3: lot differently than I am capable, and he is also

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Speaker 3: an ultra runner. In today's episode, she talks to me

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Speaker 3: about what it's like to live and work with her

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Speaker 3: partner abroad and how the duo decides who does what

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Speaker 3: race and when. Plus she talks about her background, originally

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Speaker 3: moving to Zurich, Switzerland and to get her PhD in geology,

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Speaker 3: and how she first learned that trail running was actually

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Speaker 3: a sport. She also offers up some tips and tricks

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Speaker 3: for anyone that wants to get in on trail running themselves.

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Speaker 3: I am so happy that we had the time to

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Speaker 3: make this happen. We actually recorded this shortly before I

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Speaker 3: headed over to Shamani. And of note, her performance coming

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Speaker 3: in second at the occ the event that is the

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Speaker 3: fifty K as a part of this UTMB World series

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Speaker 3: is impressive on its own, but it comes shortly after

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Speaker 3: her second place finish at the Western States one hundred

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Speaker 3: which she completed and under the course record time, finishing

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Speaker 3: just behind Courtney to Walter. Now, if you don't know

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Speaker 3: Courtney de Walter, another huge name in the ultra space.

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Speaker 2: She has been on the show before.

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Speaker 3: I am going to link her episode in the show

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Speaker 3: notes as well. Make sure you're following along with Hurdle

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Speaker 3: over on social It's at Hurdle podcast. I am over

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Speaker 3: at Emily a Body and subscribe to the weekly Hear

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Speaker 3: newsletter while you're at it. The link to do that

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Speaker 3: is in the show notes. With that, let's get to hurdling.

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Speaker 2: Today.

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Speaker 3: I am sitting down with Katie Shaijee's an endurance athlete

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Speaker 3: for the North Face.

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Speaker 2: How are you doing today?

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Speaker 1: I'm good on the other side of the world. But

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Speaker 1: how are you doing?

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Speaker 3: I'm good, I'm soon to be on the other side

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Speaker 3: of the world with you. Give the hurdlers, which is

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Speaker 3: what I call my audience, a little bit of intel

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Speaker 3: on why you're on the other side of the world.

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Speaker 1: Katie, Well, I actually live in France, so this is

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Speaker 1: my home, but I'm currently a little bit away from

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Speaker 1: home because I'm in the Cheminee Valley. I normally live

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Speaker 1: in the south of France, closer to Nice really the

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Speaker 1: southern extent of the Alps. It's called the Mercantur National Park.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, now I'm in Chemny Valley because we have

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Speaker 1: the big UTMB race week coming up this week.

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Speaker 3: For those that don't know what UTMB is, do you

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Speaker 3: want to explain it for them?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I forget because I'm only around trail runners

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Speaker 1: all the time. I forget most of the world doesn't

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Speaker 1: know what this thing is. Yeah. So the UTMB is

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Speaker 1: the Ultratrail Dumont Blanc, and the most famous of the

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Speaker 1: races during this event is the Ultra Trail du mont Blanc,

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Speaker 1: which is one hundred and seventy two kilometers, so just

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Speaker 1: over one hundred miles with ten thousand meters of vertical climbing,

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Speaker 1: which I guess would be something like thirty thousand feet

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Speaker 1: of climbing. And it's an ultra trail race that traversus

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Speaker 1: three countries, France, Italy and Switzerland and passes through at

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Speaker 1: least one night if you're a little bit slower, maybe

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Speaker 1: two nights. And yes, this year will be its twentieth

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Speaker 1: anniversary and it's probably the It's kind of like the

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Speaker 1: World Championships of ultratrail running. We do have another race

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Speaker 1: in trail running that's called the World Championships, but more

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Speaker 1: or less serves as the unofficial World Championship.

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Speaker 2: Which you casually won last year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't describe it as casual. It's quite a long,

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Speaker 1: a long day, but yes, I was fortunate enough to

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Speaker 1: put it all together last year.

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Speaker 2: Wow, humble to say the least. We're going to get

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Speaker 2: to that.

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Speaker 3: We're going to talk about that experience for you, but

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Speaker 3: living in the south of France before we do, you

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Speaker 3: are a ways away from where you grew up. Talk

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Speaker 3: to me about your beginnings, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Yes, you can tell I'm American, but I'm originally from Maine,

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I grew up like a normal American kid.

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Speaker 1: I guess I played a lot of sports as a kid.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in a really small town and yeah,

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Speaker 1: really nothing super crazy to say about my childhood. I

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Speaker 1: had really supportive parents who just kind of let me

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Speaker 1: do anything that I I wanted without questioning it, which

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Speaker 1: I think just gave me the opportunity to explore anything.

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Speaker 1: And there was a lot of things I explored as

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Speaker 1: a kid that I don't do anymore. But I'm really

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Speaker 1: grateful that I had all those opportunities to try everything

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Speaker 1: as a kid, and now I've found the things that

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Speaker 1: I like the best, which I think is Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: super cool that now I get to pour all of

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Speaker 1: my energy into one thing. But yeah, after growing up

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Speaker 1: in Maine, I then did my undergrad in Vermont and

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Speaker 1: then also lived in Salt Lake City for a couple

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Speaker 1: of years before moving to Zurich, Switzerland, where I did

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Speaker 1: my PhD, which I finished last year. And when I

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Speaker 1: was there living in Switzerland is where I met my

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Speaker 1: now partner, German, who was French, and that is how

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Speaker 1: I ended up staying in France. So yeah, it's a

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Speaker 1: whirlwind tour, but that's how I ended.

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Speaker 3: Up there, Isn't it funny when you can consolidate like

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Speaker 3: decades of your life if into like a two minute

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Speaker 3: sound clip.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've had to work on that because there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of other things in between that I've decided to

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Speaker 1: filter out.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about growing up because up in Maine,

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Speaker 3: having so much access to nature. I know you got

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Speaker 3: your PhD in geology, So did you know from a

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Speaker 3: young age that you just had such a vested interest

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Speaker 3: in nature?

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Speaker 1: I didn't grow up in the mountains really, I grew

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Speaker 1: up kind of closer to the coast. But being outside

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Speaker 1: was always like really important part of my every day.

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Speaker 1: So like even just all the sports teams I was

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Speaker 1: on obviously more complicated in the winter in Maine it's

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Speaker 1: quite cold and snowy, but yeah, being outside was always

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Speaker 1: a big part of my life. And I had always

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Speaker 1: wanted to be a biologist because I thought that that

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Speaker 1: was something that could bring me outside in my studies.

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Speaker 1: And I always had like a real passion for science.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't until I got to college that I

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Speaker 1: realized geology was really a topic. We didn't have much

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Speaker 1: geology instruction in high school, and I didn't really Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess I didn't really even know what it was

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Speaker 1: until I took my first couple classes in college, and

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Speaker 1: then I knew instantly, like that's what I wanted to do.

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Speaker 1: We just spent so much time outside for class, and

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Speaker 1: once a week we would have a five hour field

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Speaker 1: trip lab and that was really like what sold me

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Speaker 1: because it was five hours hiking around with people who

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Speaker 1: were also really passionate about the same thing, which I

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Speaker 1: think drawsy really close to your peers, and I found

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Speaker 1: a great like friend group. I had wonderful professors, I

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Speaker 1: was learning stuff, I was outside, still had my science

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Speaker 1: brain alive. So yeah, that's how I found geology.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I love that you really pursued that while

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Speaker 3: simultaneously pursuing your interest in trail running, ultra running, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: Talk to me about what it was like to have

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Speaker 3: those interests on parallel paths.

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Speaker 1: They just come from the same roots, really, like, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just had this this passion for being outside, being

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Speaker 1: in the mountains, and it in my academic life, it

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Speaker 1: took me to geology, and in my athletic life, it

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Speaker 1: took me to trail running. And yeah, you'll meet a

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Speaker 1: lot of other geologists or trail runner. You'll meet a

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Speaker 1: lot of geologists who also enjoy like trail running or

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Speaker 1: hiking or climbing. And you'll also meet a lot of

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Speaker 1: trail runners who maybe have a history and geology or

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Speaker 1: some earth science.

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Speaker 3: Did you feel like when you started getting into trail

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Speaker 3: running that there were some intimidating factors or things that

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Speaker 3: made it difficult.

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Speaker 1: I don't think there was any one thing that made

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Speaker 1: it seem super difficult, because I think so The way

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Speaker 1: that I found trail running was through hiking, and I

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Speaker 1: think I just gradually. The way I've described it in

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Speaker 1: the past is like basically I I was doing this

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Speaker 1: activity like hiking fast, and then I realized that what

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Speaker 1: I was doing was actually called trail running. So I

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Speaker 1: kind of like learned that what I was doing had

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Speaker 1: a name and that it was a sport and that

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Speaker 1: you could compete in it. And that was really cool,

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Speaker 1: you know, like, you have this thing that you love

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Speaker 1: and then you realize that there's races and other people

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Speaker 1: who do this thing and it's something you can really, yeah,

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Speaker 1: get totally caught up in. So in that sense, I

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Speaker 1: don't think there was any ever anything where I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is really hard, because it was just like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I already do this. It's so much fun. I love it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: now I can do it in a race.

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Speaker 3: It's so funny that you say that, because I would

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Speaker 3: say that as someone who maybe doesn't have regular access

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Speaker 3: to trails, going out to the trails can definitely feel

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Speaker 3: for me a little bit intimidating because it's a lot

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Speaker 3: more complicated, let's say, than stepping outside and going for

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Speaker 3: a run down the street.

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Speaker 2: Here where I live in Brooklyn.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So the thing, one thing that made that a

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Speaker 1: lot easier, I guess in terms of this like transition

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Speaker 1: and approach to being outside, is that I worked in

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Speaker 1: mountain huts for Fort Summers in New Hampshire, and so

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Speaker 1: we were living above tree line on the trails in

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Speaker 1: a building like serving breakfast and dinner to hikers. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a whole another side of that story about that job,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, basically you're living in the mountains on surrounded

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Speaker 1: by trails, so every single day you're going outside and

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Speaker 1: and yeah, what we just called hiking, which now I

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Speaker 1: call running. And so when you just get so used

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Speaker 1: to it being a normal part of your life, it's Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's definitely a lot easier than if you were to

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Speaker 1: maybe only have been on one trail run in your

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Speaker 1: life and they have to drive four hours and then

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Speaker 1: you're not really sure like which trail to go on

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Speaker 1: and how like you know how much water to take

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Speaker 1: or should I bring a jacket and which shoes to wear?

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I think, what, the more you have to

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Speaker 1: something right, the more it becomes the norm.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so when you were working in those mountain huts,

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Speaker 3: what was your favorite part of that experience. I'm sure

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Speaker 3: a majority of the people listening to this can't even

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Speaker 3: imagine what that would be like, whereas like their summer

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Speaker 3: job was like working at a local sandwich shop.

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Speaker 1: I mean it is, yeah, the best. It's hard. It's

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Speaker 1: really hard to describe this job because it's so unique

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Speaker 1: and it also very intense. But it's basically if you

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Speaker 1: were to work at, you know, your normal summer restaurant job,

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Speaker 1: but the restaurant happens to be like a one to

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Speaker 1: three hour hike from a road, and you work with

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Speaker 1: the same five to ten people every single day, and

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Speaker 1: you sleep in a bunk room with them, and you

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Speaker 1: can basically like touch each other from the beds. The

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Speaker 1: room is so small, and you're basically working twenty four

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Speaker 1: hours a day I mean technically not, but you are

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Speaker 1: kind of on call at all times. My favorite part

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Speaker 1: actually was carrying the food up and down, so carrying

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Speaker 1: the food to the hut for the resupply and then

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Speaker 1: carrying the trash down. And we had these big, huge

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Speaker 1: wooden packboards that we would then like strap the boxes to,

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Speaker 1: so like really really old school, and it had these

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Speaker 1: the packboards that we called They had these leather straps,

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Speaker 1: and you just felt really like it just felt really

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Speaker 1: way more hardcore than carrying a backpack, you know, like

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Speaker 1: these leather straps they would like kind of make you bleed.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they would cut into your shoulders and we would

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Speaker 1: carry pretty heavy loads. And that those were the days

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Speaker 1: when I felt like, Wow, I'm you know, you feel

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Speaker 1: really strong when you get to the building after hiking

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Speaker 1: for one, one or two hours with this thing on

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Speaker 1: your back, and you like unload the veggies and all

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Speaker 1: the produce that you that you carried up and then

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Speaker 1: you go and cook dinner with that. Yeah, it's like

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Speaker 1: a really empowering feeling to be night and carrying you know,

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Speaker 1: up to sixty pounds of food up to a hut.

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Speaker 2: Was this something that your parents came up doing as well.

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Speaker 1: No, my dad grew up like backpacking and hiking, and

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Speaker 1: my mom worked. She was in the Peace Corps for

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Speaker 1: two years as Yeah, like a I guess, young twenty

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Speaker 1: year old in Nepal, so she actually had quite a

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Speaker 1: bit of experience like living in a village in the

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Speaker 1: middle of nowhere, but they didn't. Yeah, this was something

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Speaker 1: that I kind of sought out and I had been

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Speaker 1: to these huts as a kid with my dad, so

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Speaker 1: we had like stayed in the hut, and I had

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Speaker 1: always kind of admired the people working there and thought, wow,

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Speaker 1: like one day that would be super cool to work

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Speaker 1: here too.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of crazy to be able to have that

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Speaker 3: sort of access and also like the exposure to the

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Speaker 3: different types of people that you must meet doing something

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Speaker 3: like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say by the end of the summer,

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Speaker 1: it gets quite exhausting, because it is you are working

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Speaker 1: in the service industry. So when the like when the

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Speaker 1: tenth person of the morning asks you where the bathroom is,

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Speaker 1: you have to, you know, collect yourself and remember they

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Speaker 1: don't know that they're the tenth person to ask you

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Speaker 1: or the bathroom is that day. So it was a

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Speaker 1: good lesson in patience.

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Speaker 3: Also knowing that you really loved this time outside and

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Speaker 3: the way that it felt to work hard, you then

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Speaker 3: carried that with you as you started to get into

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Speaker 3: the sport of trail running. When does your hobby for

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Speaker 3: trail running move past the hobby stage and into a

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Speaker 3: holy shoot, I'm actually competing doing this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a few stages, so there's like the this

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Speaker 1: is my hobby stage. And then when I got to

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Speaker 1: which I guess probably developed from working in the huts

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Speaker 1: through living in Salt Lake City, where I did my

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Speaker 1: first couple of races, and then when I moved to Switzerland,

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Speaker 1: I did a few more races, but I was really,

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Speaker 1: you know, still trying to adjust to the big move

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Speaker 1: and getting my feet under me, like meeting people, you

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Speaker 1: know generally, you know, getting my ID card and my

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Speaker 1: new driver's license, like all those things that take forever.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, that's when when I met my partner. He

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Speaker 1: was already in the sport at like a more competitive level,

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Speaker 1: and he was kind of the first one who kind

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Speaker 1: of said to me, like, you know, you can actually

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Speaker 1: be like really good at this. And it was the

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Speaker 1: first time someone had really said that to me. Like

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Speaker 1: I kind of thought like, oh, maybe this is something

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Speaker 1: I could be good at, but I'm not really sure.

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Speaker 1: You don't really know. And yeah, he was the first

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Speaker 1: person who was just like had so much confidence in me,

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Speaker 1: and it made me more confident in myself and allowed

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Speaker 1: me to not feel like embarrassed about approaching it a

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Speaker 1: little bit more seriously. After that, I had like some

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Speaker 1: good results, you know, but nothing crazy. I was doing

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Speaker 1: more of the sport that's called sky running, which is

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Speaker 1: like shorter distance and more technical. And then throughout yeah,

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Speaker 1: those years, maybe two or three years after I started,

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Speaker 1: I saw that I could make this my full time job.

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Speaker 1: And then I slowly transitioned from like my PhD to

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Speaker 1: being a full time professional athlete. So there was kind

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Speaker 1: of a gray area in there.

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Speaker 2: What was it like for you to uproot and move abroad?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was It's still one of the moments that

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Speaker 1: I can look back on in my life and see

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Speaker 1: that it was like a huge turning point and also

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Speaker 1: that it was a huge decision and that I'm it's

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Speaker 1: something I take confidence from because I'm like, wow, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was offered this position in Zurich, having not really

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Speaker 1: it wasn't like my objective to move to Switzerland to

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Speaker 1: do a PhD. I honestly wasn't even sure wanted to

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Speaker 1: do a PhD. I had kind of just applied for

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Speaker 1: this position. It's hard to describe, but like kind of

328
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Speaker 1: on a whim, I was just like, oh, why not whatever,

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Speaker 1: And then I wasn't expecting to offer the job, and

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Speaker 1: so I had to make this decision, and it was

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Speaker 1: really tough because I was really happy in Salt Lake

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Speaker 1: City and had such great friends and had kind of

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Speaker 1: felt like I had made this community there. But I

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Speaker 1: knew that it was I could see it was this

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00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,479
Speaker 1: offer coming at a turning point anyway, like either I

336
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Speaker 1: was going to stay in Salt Lake, you know, for good,

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Speaker 1: more or less, or I was going to make this

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Speaker 1: change in my life. And yeah, I didn't like you know,

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Speaker 1: I didn't own a house. I had a dog, which

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Speaker 1: was hard to make a decision about. But otherwise, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was more like leaving friends. That made the decision

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Speaker 1: the hardest.

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Speaker 2: What happened with the dog.

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Speaker 1: He has a new family and actually, just by chance,

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Speaker 1: he lives in Sweden now, no way. Yeah, so he's

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Speaker 1: loving his life in Sweden and I get I still, Yeah,

347
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Speaker 1: he lives with friends of mine, so yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: he's been with my friends longer than I ever had him,

349
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Speaker 1: so he's their dog now. But yeah, I love seeing

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Speaker 1: the updates of him in Sweden.

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Speaker 2: Oh buddy, Oh my gosh. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And not to mention moving to a place where not

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Speaker 3: everyone around you is speaking your first language.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so in Zurich, it's it's okay because it's super international. Yeah,

355
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Speaker 1: there's a huge percentage of the city that isn't even Swiss.

356
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Speaker 1: And at the university, everything above the master's degree is

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Speaker 1: in English. So actually my research group was I think

358
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Speaker 1: it was mostly like Chinese and then there was a

359
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Speaker 1: few Americans, few Germans. We only actually had one Swiss

360
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Speaker 1: person in our research group, so yeah, there was a

361
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Speaker 1: lot of languages and English was the common language. So

362
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Speaker 1: it actually made it easy to be pretty lazy because

363
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Speaker 1: I kind of only interacted with people at the university.

364
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,440
Speaker 1: And then yeah, moving to France after that was is

365
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Speaker 1: a lot harder because now we live in a village

366
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Speaker 1: of like sixty people in the middle of nowhere, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: my partner is one of the only people who speaks

368
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Speaker 1: English like fluently, so I think it was it was

369
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Speaker 1: probably pretty hard for him actually at the beginning, because

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Speaker 1: I was super super reliant on him. Like I I'm

371
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Speaker 1: kind of I don't want to say shy, because I'm

372
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Speaker 1: like happy to you know, meet people, but I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of timid in situations in another language. I wasn't the

374
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Speaker 1: one out there trying to practice my French to strangers,

375
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Speaker 1: so I relied pretty heavily on him. And now I'm

376
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Speaker 1: a lot more confident, like I can do things by myself,

377
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Speaker 1: and you know, I'm less self conscious about all the

378
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 1: language mistakes I make. But yeah, I think it was

379
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,720
Speaker 1: hard on both of us because I kind of only

380
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Speaker 1: had him to talk to for a while. And yeah,

381
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 1: but he Yeah, I'm glad we got past that stage because, yeah,

382
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Speaker 1: it's a lot better now that I can do more

383
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Speaker 1: things alone.

384
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Speaker 2: How did that feel for you at first?

385
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Speaker 1: It's still not the same as being in the US.

386
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Speaker 1: You know, sometimes now if I go into the bank

387
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Speaker 1: or just like today I got my haircut, you know,

388
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,199
Speaker 1: you give yourself a pep talk before you go in,

389
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 1: like it's okay, do your best, like you got this, Like,

390
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 1: just to do really basic tasks sometimes can feel really exhausting.

391
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's understandable, right, There's a lot that goes hand

392
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 3: in hand with not being able to easily communicate with

393
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Speaker 3: the people around you. You said something before that I noticed,

394
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 3: which was that you felt embarrassed at first that the

395
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,639
Speaker 3: idea of making this your full time profession.

396
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 2: Talk to me a little bit about that.

397
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 1: I would say more less when I got to the

398
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,159
Speaker 1: stage of making it my profession, because I'd already kind

399
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 1: of been in it. But I think at least when

400
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 1: I was kind of coming into the sport in the US,

401
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,199
Speaker 1: there was sort of this feeling around the sport that

402
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 1: you had to it was cool to not care about

403
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,400
Speaker 1: it and like, oh, yeah, I just showed up and

404
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 1: doing this race, but I don't really care. You know,

405
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: it's all just to have fun, which it is, right,

406
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 1: like we're there to have fun. But there's also a

407
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 1: point where like, Okay, I you know I paid for

408
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,159
Speaker 1: this race. I got up super early this morning. You know,

409
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: I'm really nervous, So clearly I care about what's happening,

410
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 1: or I wouldn't come to a race. So I think

411
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 1: I finally went like what was coming to Europe helped

412
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:42,400
Speaker 1: me a lot, because I think in the European race

413
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: scene there's a slightly more serious approach and it's not

414
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 1: like frowned on at all. It's normal to say like, yeah,

415
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 1: I really want to do well, or be like, oh,

416
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 1: I was really disappointed in how I did. And I

417
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 1: felt like when I was first consuming trail running media,

418
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 1: at least in the US, is really yeah, it was

419
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 1: cool to to not care, and you didn't want to

420
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,439
Speaker 1: show that you cared too much.

421
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 2: What is caring too much?

422
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: Though I think it was. I mean, the thing about

423
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 1: trail running is that it's right now, it's on the

424
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 1: bridge of being like a lifestyle sport and a performance sport.

425
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 1: Like we still want to maintain these like super nice

426
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,159
Speaker 1: pictures of us, you know, running in the mountains looking

427
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 1: like it's all easy and care free. But then we're

428
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 1: also coming into this phase where we're being more open

429
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 1: about like, yeah, I train a lot to do to

430
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 1: do well at a race, and like, I devote a

431
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 1: lot of time and energy, you know, I work with

432
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,479
Speaker 1: a coach, Like even a few years ago, not that

433
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 1: many people worked with coaches or maybe a nutritionist or

434
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 1: a mental coach or these are all becoming more normal now,

435
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: whereas in the past you would maybe say like, oh, yeah,

436
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 1: that person, like you know, they're not having fun because

437
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: they care too much. And I think now we see

438
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 1: you can you can care about something and have fun

439
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: because you're putting your energy to something you care about.

440
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and what you're doing takes a lot of energy

441
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 3: out of the kind of portfolio of experts that you

442
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 3: just mentioned. What experts are you yourself working with these

443
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 3: days as a part of your team.

444
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, my team is my coach, my partner for sure,

445
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: even though it doesn't have like a designated rule. But yeah,

446
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: a big part of my life. And then I work

447
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,199
Speaker 1: with a mental coach, and I consult with a nutritionist,

448
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: sometimes a physio that that we see or like when

449
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: we're on the road, we're usually seeing a physio.

450
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 3: Somewhere somewhere, finding one in some small town somewhere exactly

451
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 3: on the nutrition side of things.

452
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 2: Let's talk a lot, a lot about that.

453
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 3: There are many people listening to this that may, you know,

454
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 3: work out recreationally or maybe they it like to run,

455
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 3: and there's certainly a way to fuel for that when

456
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 3: it comes to the roads with the trails and the

457
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 3: ultras specifically are an entirely different beast. So talk to

458
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 3: me about your journey to learning how to fuel your

459
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 3: body appropriately for the level of intensity and sport that

460
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 3: you're taking on.

461
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like I've learned a lot in the

462
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 1: last few years. And none of what I've learned is

463
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 1: that exciting. You know, It's stuff that I learned that

464
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: I should have already known. You know, like when someone

465
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: tells you, yeah, you should make sure you eat enough

466
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: before you go for a long run. You're like, oh, yeah,

467
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 1: I should know that, but I needed you to tell

468
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: me that because sometimes you kind of get lost. Especially

469
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 1: when I lived in Zurich. You know, I was way

470
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: busier in my daily life, and I'm not someone who

471
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 1: says like I forget to eat, but it was harder

472
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: logistically because you're like in the lab and on the

473
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: move and on the train to go back to the apartment,

474
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: and then you know, trying to squeeze in runs at

475
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: random times of the day when you have time. Now

476
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: I can be way more deliberate about like when I eat,

477
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: when I run, how I feel. But yeah, I think

478
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 1: the biggest thing is was just consuming more and especially

479
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: focusing more on protein. I think I didn't do a

480
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: great job of that when I was living in Zurich, because,

481
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: like I said, I was always trying to eat lunch

482
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: quickly at my desk in between lab time, and I

483
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: think there was days I definitely wasn't. I just wasn't

484
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 1: consuming enough calories. And it's easy to look at the

485
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: people around you who maybe aren't doing what you're doing

486
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: and think that you're doing normal things. But then at

487
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: the end of the day you have to remember like, Okay,

488
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: but I'm going to go on a two hour run

489
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 1: later today, and they're not, or maybe they are. But

490
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 1: you have to look at yourself without comparing it to

491
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: other people around.

492
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 3: You in so many aspects, right, I mean not only

493
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 3: in nutrition what it is that your body needs, but

494
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 3: also going back to how you were feeling about transitioning

495
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 3: into this being your full time job, right, like you

496
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 3: are different than the person next to you, who is

497
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 3: different than the person standing next to that.

498
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, exactly. And yeah. The other big thing that

499
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: I learned was that you actually, just like you practice

500
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: running to do well in a race, you have to

501
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: practice eating while running so that you can be good

502
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: at eating while running during a race. With some people

503
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 1: in the sport that were sort of this like badge

504
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: of honor, if you could go for a run without

505
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 1: eating for like a long period of time, they would

506
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: say like, oh no, now, oh, you're like falling apart

507
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: because you have to like eat something now because you're

508
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: getting tired. But now I learned, but like in the

509
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: last two years, I've really learned that if you don't

510
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: practice eating while you run, then when you get to

511
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: the race, your body is going to be super confused

512
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 1: about what you're doing, because you obviously need to consume

513
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: quite a few carbohydrates for these long efforts, and if

514
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: you haven't practiced that, then it's not going to work

515
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: on race day.

516
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 3: So interesting that phrase like that there could be a

517
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 3: badge of honor for not eating.

518
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 2: I feel like that's just a societal thing.

519
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,880
Speaker 1: This is more like old school French approach. Yeah, they're

520
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: like a little bit I don't want to diss France

521
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: too much, but they're a little bit behind on the nutrition,

522
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: like applying nutrition research. So they were still in the

523
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: low carb phase when I got here, where the US

524
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: was still was already in the high carb phase, and

525
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: now France is coming into high carb. So yeah, just

526
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: it's funny to see the shifts on different continents.

527
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 3: So as you get more acquainted in France and you're

528
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 3: racing more, do you start to really feel the benefits

529
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 3: of living over here and training for your sport.

530
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: It depends on the race. Each race, I try to

531
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: train as specifically as possible. So UTMB is here in Chermany,

532
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: so that's why we're here in Chermany right now. I'm

533
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: actually not running the full UTMB this year. I'm running

534
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: the occ which is the fifty k, but my partner

535
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: is running the full UTMB, so we came here, yeah,

536
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: six weeks early so that he could train specifically on

537
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: the course and for sure, yet that's like the biggest

538
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: thing you can do before the race is just literally

539
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: run on the race course. And then to answer your question, like, no,

540
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 1: living in France is not great. When I wanted to

541
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: prepare for Western States, which is in the US and

542
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: is a very flat, hot, one hundred mile race which

543
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: happens at the end of June, which is quite early

544
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: actually because we ski in the winter like we do

545
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: ski mountaineering, and that season ends like mid March even April.

546
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: So I actually went to the US two months ahead

547
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: of that race to practice running in those conditions. So

548
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: it really just depends on where the race is and

549
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: where you can train to match the conditions of the race.

550
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 3: How does it feel that your body is critical to

551
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 3: your livelihood?

552
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: Right now, my body is my livelihood, and I know

553
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: it won't always be like that, but I also know

554
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: that I will want my body to be functional and

555
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: healthy when it's not my livelihood. That becomes a delicate

556
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: balance because right now it's what I'm relying on solely

557
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: for work, but when I'm you know, in thirty years, like,

558
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:23,959
Speaker 1: I still want to be able to go outside and

559
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: enjoy the things that I enjoy, and I don't want

560
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: to risk that right now. So those are tough decisions

561
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: to make now, especially because we don't know that much

562
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: about the long term effects of the sport because it's

563
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: such a young sport and there's not that many people

564
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: who have done it consistently for that long. It's just

565
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: going off your best intentions, I guess, and your best

566
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: instincts how to maintain a high level of performance, but

567
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: also not forgetting that there is a life after that.

568
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,719
Speaker 3: Taking a break from today's episode to talk to you

569
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 3: about my sponsors. First up, my friends at Future. You

570
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 3: want to know what it takes to achieve your fitness goals, Well,

571
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:13,000
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572
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,360
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573
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,360
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574
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,280
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575
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 3: you moving, you'll find the guidance, motivation, and accountability to

576
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,240
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577
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578
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,479
Speaker 3: and I am obsessed. It has all the benefits of

579
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 3: one on one personal training without the one hour time

580
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 3: limit and strict schedule. Whether you need tips for sleeping

581
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,000
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582
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 3: a deadlift pr your coach is really there to help

583
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:52,560
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584
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 2: Competitive edge whenever and wherever you need it.

585
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 3: My coach Brandon has been absolutely instrumental in helping me

586
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 3: stay on my game no matter where I am in

587
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 3: the world, especially last week in Shamani, working with me

588
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 3: and the tools that I had access to to feel

589
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 3: the best possible way that I could in my body

590
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 3: despite being away from home. Of course, I've got a

591
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592
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593
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594
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595
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596
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597
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 3: love to my friends at Elements. Oh my goodness, what

598
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 3: would I do without Element, especially in the summer months,

599
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 3: especially during the height of marathon training season. Element makes

600
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,680
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601
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,400
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602
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,840
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603
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604
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,320
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605
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:13,920
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606
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 2: Needs to perform at its best.

607
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,920
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608
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,800
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609
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,640
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610
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,680
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611
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:35,200
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612
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,520
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613
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,320
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614
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:41,920
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615
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:46,520
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616
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,560
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617
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618
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619
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 3: what you were talking about about the importance of nutrition

620
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 3: in your day to day as well as when you're racing.

621
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 3: How else is Katie taking care of Katie so that

622
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 3: your body is in the best position that it can be.

623
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 1: The biggest thing is that when I take time off,

624
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: I'm really cognizant of the fact that I'm taking time off.

625
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,720
Speaker 1: If I say, Okay, this is my last race severe

626
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: and now we take, you know, running time off until

627
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: whatever next spring, then I'm really focused on not doing

628
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: too much. I'm quick to say no to things, which

629
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: is hard because right like, I love going in the

630
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: mountains and being outside. But when I say I'm taking

631
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: time off, i can't go on a four hour fun

632
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 1: run with a friend every day, which could be super

633
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: fun and I would love to do that. But I'm

634
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: also thinking long term about racing and about yeah, my

635
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: just long term health, and yeah, it's just important to

636
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: really say okay, this time is off in that meat.

637
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that I'm only sitting on the couch

638
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: for like a month or two, but it means okay,

639
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: easy runs and of course making exceptions when it makes sense.

640
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, just being deliberate about when I'm on and

641
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: when I'm off.

642
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,959
Speaker 3: Do you find that you experience guilt during those off months,

643
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 3: or are you at a place now where you actually

644
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 3: really just appreciate and respect the break.

645
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: I think it's harder. It's not that I experienced guilt.

646
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: It's more that you it's just like a huge lifestyle

647
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: swhich you know, you're like so focused on maybe one

648
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: big goal for for a few months, and then all

649
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: of a sudden it's done, and then there's a new

650
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: day and you're like, oh, okay, you know that's past.

651
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: Now what and your My first instinct is always to

652
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: be like, okay, wait to think about the next race,

653
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: like what am I going to do differently? How am

654
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: I going to make it better? But when it's off

655
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 1: the time to do that, when it's really the end

656
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: of the season, then yeah, maybe a week or two

657
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: after I'll be like, ah, but you know, I really

658
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: want to do this because I came up with this

659
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 1: idea of like how I can be better next time.

660
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: But I think after that, once that excitement kind of fades,

661
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: then no, I don't need the sport to like confirm

662
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: anything with myself. And I think it's important to be

663
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: able to take time off and not feel like if

664
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: you feel guilty taking time off, then I don't think.

665
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if the relationship with the sport is

666
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: that healthy. I think if I were to start to

667
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: feel super guilty, I would want to question what my

668
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: relationship is with the sport.

669
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's I mean, I think that's really profound, right.

670
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 3: It's understandable when someone really relates to or identifies with

671
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 3: whatever sport really interests them. To hear that you have

672
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 3: such a good perspective on kind of what makes Katie

673
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 3: Katie outside of your career and this sport that you have,

674
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 3: I think it's really admirable.

675
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say it's easier to say that than

676
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: to like really keep an audiot. But especially because it's

677
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,240
Speaker 1: my hobby and my job. So yeah, there's a point where,

678
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 1: like if I'm injured or something, I feel more just

679
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: frustrated because it's my job and I'm you know, not

680
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: able to do it. I think the frustration comes more

681
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: from that side than the side of like, oh, I

682
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: have to do this to maintain my self identity. But

683
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: I think all professional athletes I'm sure have have Yeah,

684
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: that part of their life that's pretty difficult. Like, you

685
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: have a lot weighing on on your passion, Like it's

686
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: really cool to have this thing that you love for

687
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 1: your job, but there comes a point where you don't

688
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 1: want to not like the thing that you love because

689
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:47,919
Speaker 1: it's your job.

690
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's a tough line to walk, Yeah, And.

691
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: It's hard to explain sometimes to people outside that lifestyle

692
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: because our job is to make it look like the

693
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: coolest thing. For like, every day is awesome and we're

694
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,359
Speaker 1: just having fun, you know, running around, and some days

695
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: it is like that, But there's a lot of days

696
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,439
Speaker 1: it's not like that at all. And there's some days

697
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: I wish I just had a normal job that I

698
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: could like leave and lock the door and drive home

699
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: and then just leave everything at the office. And I

700
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: don't get to do that.

701
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 3: It goes back to your point of it being like

702
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 3: a really unique and special opportunity. How does it feel

703
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 3: to share this opportunity, specifically your job, with your partner.

704
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 1: That's a good question because that further complicates everything, right,

705
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: because my relationship is also like a bit tied into

706
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 1: everything to our relationship. But I think we've we've done

707
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 1: a good job. I mean, we've done the best we

708
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,280
Speaker 1: can and I were happy with how everything is going,

709
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 1: but we kind of have our own little team and

710
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: we manage all of our partnerships together. And I think

711
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: that's helped both of us a lot because we can,

712
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: you know, pass off things to each other, like, you know,

713
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: he'll take care of some emails and I'll take care

714
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,760
Speaker 1: of others. And it's kind of fun to like work

715
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: together on things. Of course, it's not always fun, but

716
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: it would be nice to you know, just go to

717
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: dinner and like not have to talk about running, which

718
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: we don't always talk about running, but it's easy for

719
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 1: that to come up. But yeah, to have our life

720
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: be this flexible in this like we both get to

721
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 1: do what we love every day, and we both when

722
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 1: we need time to do something, we can make the

723
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: time for it. It's pretty flexible.

724
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 3: It's funny as well, because I think at different points

725
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 3: in my life I can say for sure that I

726
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,959
Speaker 3: had an idea or still have an idea what kind

727
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 3: of person might be good for me to be with,

728
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 3: And I always say that, you know, they don't have

729
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 3: to be a runner. Maybe it'll be good if they

730
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 3: have some stability. So for you to be in this

731
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 3: relationship where you and your partner are so similar, are

732
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 3: there moments where you're like, hmmm.

733
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 2: Was this really what I thought I was going to

734
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:03,280
Speaker 2: get into.

735
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: I'd say the only tough like the toughest times of

736
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 1: the year are race weeks, and what we've learned in

737
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: the past, we used to always do the same races

738
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: because we thought like, oh, it makes sense, you know,

739
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: we can kind of our training will be structured in

740
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 1: a similar way and it will be easier for everyone.

741
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: And I think we believed that for a while until

742
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: we realized last year, like, actually, you know what, we're

743
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 1: each other's best resources, and we like understand racing better

744
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: than anyone else, and we're like not taking advantage that

745
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 1: we have someone in house who can help us during

746
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: a race. So this year where we've split forces. That's

747
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,240
Speaker 1: one of the big reasons why I'm not doing UTMB,

748
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: because I really wanted to support him at UTMB, and

749
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 1: I know that I can be a really valuable part

750
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 1: of his support team during the race as opposed to

751
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: being another stressed person in the house also needs, you know,

752
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: help with last minute task because that was just a

753
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: bit overwhelming.

754
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 3: Have there been points where you've wanted to do the

755
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 3: same thing and one of you has to make the

756
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 3: call to dial it back.

757
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: We just came up with this new strategy last year,

758
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: so we haven't had that issue yet. I would say

759
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 1: last year I had thought about doing another race in

760
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: the fall, but he had gotten sick just before UTMB

761
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: last year and wasn't able to finish. So the priority

762
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: definitely went to him because I had, you know, yeah,

763
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: the best my result of my life. And so instead

764
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 1: of being like, oh, I really want to go to

765
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: this race, which is the same weekend as another big

766
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: race he wanted to do, I could clearly see it

767
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: was the more obvious better choice to go help him

768
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: at his race than to like send him off by

769
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: himself and go do my own race, which wasn't totally necessary,

770
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: and maybe it was even better for my long term

771
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: health and training to to just cut it after UTM

772
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: last year.

773
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 3: Talk to me a little bit about what's in your

774
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 3: gear rotation right now? What are the tools that you

775
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 3: need to be successful in your sport.

776
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: Definitely, the first thing is your running shoes. Obviously, that's

777
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: the first thing touching in the ground. And then you know, apparel.

778
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 1: You can get by with an old cotton T shirt,

779
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: but it is nice to have like the more technical fabrics,

780
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,839
Speaker 1: especially for like a longer run if you know you're

781
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: gonna get kind of wet, and then yeah, the other

782
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 1: important thing is socks for sure. I would say over

783
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 1: the years, like I've tried a lot of different socks

784
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: because when you're running for i don't know, like up

785
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: to five six hours just in a training run, you

786
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 1: start to feel like every seam. And now I've really

787
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 1: like switched my focus to just investing in better gear

788
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: and like being more focused on the small details that

789
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,439
Speaker 1: can make a big difference, especially if you're talking about

790
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: like a blister over many hours. So now I wear

791
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: exclusively features socks, and I've been really lucky to have

792
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 1: a partnership with them this year. Yeah, that's been like

793
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: really key for both general and my partner and I.

794
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: It seems like a small thing, but in trail running

795
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: we do get really focused on just details because there's

796
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 1: so much that's out of your control when you're running,

797
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: and there's that there's only a few things you can control,

798
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: and if you can really do those things well, then

799
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: you can just you can one feel better because you

800
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: have those things yeah, under control, but also just be

801
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 1: more confident and more comfortable of course, like foot if

802
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: you look at the UTMB stats, actually foot problems or like,

803
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 1: I think the second biggest reason people drop out of ultras,

804
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 1: the first being like nutritional problems. But yeah, I think

805
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:55,439
Speaker 1: if you can avoid blisters and issues with your feet,

806
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: that's like a huge, a huge thing.

807
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 2: Yeah.

808
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 3: I feel like socks are like the most overlooked thing,

809
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 3: but literally the most critical thing, Like you said, next

810
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 3: to your sneakers. I'll definitely have to get some features myself.

811
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 3: What's your go to sneaker right now? What will you

812
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:11,360
Speaker 3: be racing in next week?

813
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're north Face athletes, so we use north

814
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: Face shoes and I'll be using a new shoe called

815
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: the Summit Skypro and yeah, that's what I'll use for

816
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 1: the fifty k at OCC and then Jamaal will be

817
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 1: using the Summit Pro, which is yeah, like a'm more cushioned.

818
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, before we talk about arguably the best day of

819
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 3: your life, tell me a little bit about what goes

820
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 3: into crewing for someone else for an event of this magnitude.

821
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: It's quite on the day, it's quite stressful. It's a

822
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: lot of I mean most of it, you're just like

823
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 1: checking your phone for the timing update. UTMB has a

824
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: really good live feed, so you can watch the live video.

825
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: But what's hard is that everything is out of your

826
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: control and you have this person that you're like so

827
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: invested in and you care so much and you want

828
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: so badly for them to do well, especially in our

829
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: case because I've you know, watched his training first hands

830
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: for the last seven years, so you have a lot

831
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: of skin in the game, but you have absolutely no

832
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: control over what happens, and you're just waiting. And it's

833
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: not like you're watching a ten K and you're waiting,

834
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: you know, half an hour. It's like you're waiting like up, yeah,

835
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: twenty hours and just crossing your fingers the whole time.

836
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: Because in an ultra you never know, you know, anything

837
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 1: can happen at any point. So it's yeah, it's just

838
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,280
Speaker 1: very stressful, and it's a lot of like driving around

839
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,919
Speaker 1: and then you only get to see the runner for

840
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: seconds or minutes at a time. Yeah, it's quite an experience.

841
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,439
Speaker 3: And having things prepared for them every time you're going

842
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 3: to see them.

843
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 2: Correct.

844
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, he's already done this, but he'll like organize

845
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: out list out all the things he want at each

846
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 1: AIDS station, and we'll have that already organized and ready

847
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: before we leave. So then it's just a matter of

848
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,879
Speaker 1: like taking the bag for each AID station and having

849
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: it there for him.

850
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 3: Go to things that you look for when it comes

851
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,359
Speaker 3: to fueling your performance.

852
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 2: Are they different between the two of you?

853
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, for racing, Actually we have pretty different nutrition strategies,

854
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: which I think really speaks to how individual it is

855
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 1: that even two people like living in the same house

856
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: with similar objectives, like have very different strategies. So for him,

857
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: he's he's really good with liquid calories and liquid carbs,

858
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 1: and he uses we both use never second drink mix

859
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 1: and gels. Yeah, so he'll be most of his calories

860
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 1: come from his drink mixes, and then he has some

861
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 1: like real food at the aid stations, Like this year,

862
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: he'll have some like sushi rolls he can take with him,

863
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: which is like some salt and rice and maybe a

864
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,359
Speaker 1: couple sandwiches just to have little pieces of that's more

865
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 1: just to have the feeling of like eating a thing

866
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: than anything then for like substantial calories. But yeah, and

867
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: then he tries to hit something like eighty to one

868
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 1: hundred grams of carbs an hour, whereas on the flip side,

869
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 1: I'm someone who doesn't handle high carbohydrate drinks very well,

870
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: So I use like a very minimal hydration mix with

871
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: not a lot of carbs just because it doesn't sit

872
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 1: well in my stomach, and then I rely more on

873
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: gels and real foods. I guess you would say, I

874
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 1: would say the baseline is like the gels, and then

875
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 1: I'll like add in food on top. Yeah. I usually

876
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 1: shoot for something like fifty to seventy grams of carbs

877
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 1: per hour.

878
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 2: That's so insane.

879
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 3: Also, like just putting into context how different it is

880
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 3: when you're removing your body for almost twenty four hours.

881
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 3: For you, specifically last year's ut MB, you finished the

882
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,799
Speaker 3: one hundred and seventy kilometer race as we established, in

883
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 3: twenty three hours, fifteen minutes and twelve seconds. Talk to

884
00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 3: me about those twenty three hours, fifteen minutes and twelve seconds.

885
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's a lot that happens in that

886
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 1: amount of time.

887
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,479
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, But you were able to sum up thirty

888
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 3: years of your life in like three minutes.

889
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 1: That's true, that's true. I need to get a better

890
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: elevator speech for it was my third time at the race,

891
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: so I was pretty familiar with like the run of

892
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 1: show and how everything works, and yeah, what it's like

893
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 1: to be in different places. The big thing was that

894
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 1: in the past years I had started pretty slowly because

895
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: everyone tells you like, Okay, don't start too fast. You know,

896
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: it's a long day, which is very true and you

897
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: shouldn't start too fast. But I kind of had this

898
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: feeling last year. I was just like, you know what,

899
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: I've tried this twice to just start slowly, and I

900
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: felt horrible anyway and didn't have a good time, and

901
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: I just want to do something differently this year. I

902
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 1: just want to try something else, And like I was

903
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: kind of just like, you know what, whatever, let's just

904
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:56,839
Speaker 1: do something new. And so I did start a lot

905
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: faster than some people felt was appropriate. But I honestly

906
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 1: felt good in my body and I felt really fit

907
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: and relaxed. So I was like, just going to go

908
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 1: with it. I know I'm going to feel bad at

909
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: some point, and let's just like I just felt like

910
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: I had a better mental approach, like I kind of

911
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 1: accepted from the beginning, I'm going to feel bad at

912
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: some point and this is going to be really hard,

913
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: and I'm ready when I get there as opposed in

914
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 1: the past, I think I was more running on fear

915
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 1: of getting to that point. It was still really hard

916
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 1: when I got to that point, you know, like I

917
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 1: was losing my self confidence. I yeah, it was just

918
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: it's hard to get to that point in an ultra

919
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 1: And if any listeners have like been at that point,

920
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: they know what it's like. It's the point where you think, Okay,

921
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to

922
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: finish this, like this is going badly. But luckily I

923
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: was able to stay in it and move well enough

924
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 1: through that that when I started to feel better again,

925
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: I hadn't lost too much time and that allowed me

926
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 1: to finish feeling pretty good.

927
00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 3: Talk to me about that point, though, talk to me

928
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,439
Speaker 3: about what it is that you say to yourself when

929
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,879
Speaker 3: you really do wonder if you're down and out.

930
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, in this case, in particular, so UTMB, if it

931
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,359
Speaker 1: starts at five pm normally maybe six pm, I can't

932
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 1: even remember, but if the first girls usually finish without

933
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: a headlamp, because yeah, they finished before I think maybe

934
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: eight pm or something. And in all the past years

935
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 1: I had to finish with like the big headlamp because

936
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: I had been way behind what I wanted to do,

937
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 1: and it had been sort of this like symbol in

938
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: my mind, like if I can finish without a headlamp,

939
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 1: I don't care what play sam or what the time is,

940
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: but it just put it just put me in a

941
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 1: different category in my head, like it was the goal

942
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 1: was to finish without a headlamp, so before sunset. And

943
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 1: when I reached this point in the middle of the race,

944
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 1: which was at I don't know, five or six am,

945
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,359
Speaker 1: I knew that I was losing time and I wasn't

946
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: moving very well, and I felt, you know, sick and

947
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,760
Speaker 1: just so out of it. But I know that I

948
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: was already on the timing sort of like on the

949
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 1: splits to finish without a headlamp. And so that was

950
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 1: all I was telling myself in my head, was like,

951
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter that, you know, Marianne had just passed me,

952
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 1: so now I was in second. I wasn't sure how

953
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 1: far behind, you know, third, fourth, fifth were. I was

954
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: just like, it doesn't matter the place. Just remember like

955
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,320
Speaker 1: the goal was not to win, it was to finish

956
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 1: without a headlamp, and it doesn't matter what the other

957
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: girls are doing right now. Like my goal is to

958
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 1: finish without a headlamp, and I can still do that

959
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: if I continue to move well. I don't even have

960
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: to move super fast. I just need to move well

961
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,839
Speaker 1: enough to get there, to get to the end. And

962
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,720
Speaker 1: that was literally the only thing I was telling myself

963
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 1: in my head for probably I think it was probably

964
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 1: over an hour until I got to the next aid

965
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 1: station and was able to get in a little bit

966
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 1: more food and kind of came back into better sanity.

967
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,800
Speaker 3: You put a really big emphasis on sort of putting

968
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 3: your own blinders on and running your own race, which

969
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 3: can be really difficult considering all of the external factors

970
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 3: that are around you.

971
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:09,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think in ultra running in general, it's kind

972
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:14,320
Speaker 1: of the if you don't run your own race, then

973
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,720
Speaker 1: it's hard to be successful because everybody there's so many

974
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 1: different aspects of ultra running that you need to be successful. Like,

975
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:25,240
Speaker 1: you need to be good at running on the flat

976
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: parts of the race. You need to be a good

977
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: hiker to go up, you know, the steeper climbs you

978
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 1: need to be a good technical descender to get down.

979
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 1: You know, the more technical trails you have to be

980
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 1: good at eating. You have to know how to manage

981
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 1: your gear, and you kind of have to be like

982
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 1: pretty good at all those things. But everyone has little

983
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 1: parts that they're better at, and it's the people who

984
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 1: just play to their strengths when those come up, that

985
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 1: are able to like manage a more successful long race

986
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 1: as opposed to like trying to force something that they're

987
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: not so, you know, force a part of the race

988
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 1: that they're not so strong yet so well. Sometimes at

989
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 1: the front of the men's race. At this point, yes,

990
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 1: like the level is getting to the point where people

991
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: at the front of the men's race are actually racing

992
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 1: each other until the end. I would say, still in

993
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 1: the women's race and maybe back a few places from

994
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 1: the front of the men's race. It is still like

995
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 1: you have to manage your race. It's one hundred and

996
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: seventy duk right, Like what we're doing is crazy to

997
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: begin with. It's not normal to do that, and you

998
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 1: really have to respect the race first and getting to

999
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 1: the end. Yeah, everyone asks like, oh, what's your goal

1000
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: for the race? And anytime I do an ultra, my

1001
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 1: goal is to finish. That's the first goal, you know.

1002
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: It's I think it's you're playing with fire if you

1003
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 1: start making goals that aren't based on the fact that

1004
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 1: you still want to finish.

1005
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 3: Would you say that that lesson the run your own

1006
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 3: race is something that has transferred to other aspects of

1007
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 3: your life.

1008
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 1: Maybe more the inverse, Like, I think I've always kind

1009
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 1: of made decisions that I've wanted to make for me,

1010
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 1: and definitely taken other people's advice. But good about like

1011
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 1: filtering which advice I won't I felt was constructive or helpful,

1012
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,840
Speaker 1: and I think I brought that more to ultra running

1013
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 1: than the other way around.

1014
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 3: Now, you mentioned that the women's racing being very different

1015
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 3: than the men's racing.

1016
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 2: I don't have to tell you this, you know it.

1017
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 3: But for the listeners, less than ten percent of all

1018
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 3: UTMB participants have been women in the past. How do

1019
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 3: you feel about more women getting out on the trails

1020
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 3: and what's your advice to women that are interested in

1021
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 3: doing it themselves.

1022
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say that women in the US are

1023
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 1: doing a great job. There's way more registration equality in

1024
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 1: the US than there is in Europe, and I hope

1025
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 1: that Europe can match the U, or you know, match

1026
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 1: or surpass the US at some point. I think part

1027
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: of that comes from the fact that, at least in

1028
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: France and Switzerland. I can't speak specifics about other European countries,

1029
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 1: but they don't grow up playing competitive sports in school.

1030
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,359
Speaker 1: So for girls to get into sport, they have to

1031
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:10,879
Speaker 1: be really motivated themselves and have a family that can

1032
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 1: help bring them to a practice or training or whatever

1033
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: club event. I didn't realize how fortunate we were in

1034
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 1: the US to have school sports until I got here

1035
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,799
Speaker 1: and realized, like, oh, it's not normal for every ten

1036
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 1: year old to be on a soccer, basketball, and baseball team,

1037
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: you know, Like that was my whole childhood, was three

1038
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 1: sports a year, plus all the summer camp sports. And

1039
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 1: that's why I'm still doing this because I found so

1040
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 1: much confidence playing youth sports, Like I never felt like,

1041
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: oh I shouldn't be be athletic because I'm a girl

1042
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 1: or something like that. It was just normal. Whereas I've

1043
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: seen that more in the everyday culture, at least in France,

1044
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: it's not as common to find women who are confident

1045
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:58,799
Speaker 1: enough to just sign up for a race or train

1046
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 1: for a race something like that.

1047
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 3: Someone goes to your Instagram page, they see a north

1048
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 3: face athlete that's getting lost in the French mountains with

1049
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:11,320
Speaker 3: something like fifty nine thousand followers. When you look at

1050
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:13,799
Speaker 3: yourself in the mirror, what is it that you see

1051
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 3: looking back at you?

1052
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: I still see like Katie from high school? Who was

1053
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 1: you know, off to student council meeting. I don't really

1054
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 1: see anyone that different. I can definitely see like changes

1055
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,280
Speaker 1: I've made in my life, but I feel like inside,

1056
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 1: I still feel like I'm in high school.

1057
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:34,720
Speaker 2: What are you excited about now, Katie?

1058
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 1: Now, I'm excited for next week? Yeah, looking at the schedule,

1059
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 1: I'm already tired, but I think it's going to be

1060
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 1: fun and it's it's good to have all the energy

1061
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: of all the trail runners around for one big celebration

1062
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 1: at the end of the.

1063
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 3: Summer, one big celebration. All right, finishing off here right now?

1064
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 3: You have an opportunity to offer yourself a piece of advice.

1065
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 3: When you made the pivot and decided to go full time,

1066
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 3: I'm with this endurance athlete, trail ultra running thing.

1067
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:08,359
Speaker 2: What do you tell yourself? Knowing what you know now?

1068
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 1: I think that all the decisions and all the experiences

1069
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 1: I went through to get to this point were like

1070
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 1: a huge part of how I got here, and I

1071
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 1: think it was important no that I didn't know anything

1072
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 1: and that I had to learn everything on my own,

1073
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 1: and that's how I learned best anyways, just by like

1074
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 1: experiencing things by myself.

1075
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,479
Speaker 3: By yourself, Katie, I'm so happy that we were able

1076
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 3: to make some time before everything gets really crazy next

1077
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 3: week to connect.

1078
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 2: I'm wishing you all the best of luck.

1079
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 3: For those of the hurdlers that don't follow along with

1080
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 3: you just yet, how do they follow you? How do

1081
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 3: they keep up with you? If they want to give

1082
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 3: us the details?

1083
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: My two best forms of social media are Instagram so

1084
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 1: that's just my name, Katie Shide and Strava, which I

1085
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 1: put all my training on, so no secrets. You can

1086
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: see everything I do and put pictures there too when

1087
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: I go on nice runds.

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Speaker 2: Katie. Thanks again.

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Speaker 3: I'm over at Emily Body and at Hurdle Podcast. Another

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Speaker 3: hurdle conquered. Catch you guys next time,