1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: back to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always 3 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. We have a well, we 4 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: don't need to make a huge, huge thing about it, 5 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: but we are back on the horse theme wise, We're 6 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: we're doing it. No, we're finally, uh, we're finally getting 7 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: to the point where we're gonna make an episode for 8 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 1: every state in the US. We're back on our Stuffian 9 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: Stephen's bullish, right, that's right, that's right. We made, Promises 10 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: were made, ben, Promises were made and uh overpromised and underdelivered. 11 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: I'll our our buddies, Soufian. And now we're picking back up. 12 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: We're picking back up the last two that's the thing 13 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: they use in Wyoming. And we're even gonna do this 14 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: as a as an intentional two parter that couldn't become 15 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: an intentional four part an intentional four part or Earth 16 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: or a three part or we don't know, um, but 17 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: for the moment, we're gonna start talking about tales of Wyoming, 18 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: the ignoble death of Big Nose George, which is a 19 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: great name for a what do you call that? A 20 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: cow polke? Uh, Bronco Buster Outlaw, Yeah you go, uh yeah, 21 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: or a Coen Brothers film, or maybe an extra if 22 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: they ever do a sequel to that. What was that 23 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: last thing they did on the ballot of buster scrugs, 24 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: Buster scrugs? Wonderful? Was wonderful? Little? What do you call those? 25 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: An anthology with all the different ones. Tom Waits played 26 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: an old prospector better than Will Ferrell ever could have 27 00:01:55,840 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: hoped to do. But yeah, George, big Nose George k 28 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: A George Perrot a k A George Warden a ka 29 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: George Magnus sorry man use a k A Big break George, 30 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 1: And finally, our favorite and the title character of this episode, 31 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: Big nos George. That is super producer Casey Pegram approved. Look, folks, Uh, 32 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: this guy's life is interesting. He is an outlaw from 33 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: the eighteen hundreds. Uh, but you know you live by 34 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: the gun, you die by the gun. Maybe the most 35 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: interesting part of this story is, sadly enough, his demise 36 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: because you see spoiler alert, George right now is uh 37 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: spending his postlife existence in multiple ways as a flower 38 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,959 Speaker 1: pot and ashtray pair of shoes science experiment. This is 39 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: actually true? Yeah, this is not what he saw coming 40 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 1: though his main focus. His main focus stuff like what 41 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: you would loosely call frontier crimes. Like Wyoming History on 42 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: w y o history dot org describes him as a 43 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: known horse thief even though he got acquitted. He was 44 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: one of those people living at the not just the 45 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: edge of the the civilized world as they saw it 46 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: at the time, but at the edge of the legal world. 47 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: Like people would know that this guy was stealing horses 48 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: even if the charges didn't stick. He strikes me as 49 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: the kind of person who, like, if big nos George 50 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: walked into i don't know, the wrong bar or something, 51 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: there would totally be that movie moment where someone goes, well, well, well, 52 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: old big beak George, you've got a lot of nerve 53 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: coming in here, to showing your face round here, stick 54 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: in your beak in here. I wonder if he really 55 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: did have a big nose, and like maybe like you know, 56 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,839 Speaker 1: the saloon doors swing both ways, probably like would lead 57 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: with the big nose and that's what would open those 58 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: saloon doors. And I'm sure are our boy. George frequented 59 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: saloons from time to time, but he spent most of 60 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: his time holding up in a very frontier kind of 61 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: unsettled area west of what today would be called Casey, Wyoming. 62 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: And he kept company with a gang led by a 63 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 1: man named sim Jan and he and his band of 64 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: merry outlaws were active in the Powder River area of Wyoming. 65 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: They robbed, uh, stage coaches of of cash shipments, you know, 66 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: like they had like the you know, Wells Fargo was 67 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: was initially a stagecoach company because they would ship money 68 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: to and from their bank locations or I believe they 69 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: were a courier service and then became a bank. But 70 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: that was a very popular target for robberies. It's almost cliche. 71 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: And then of course just if they were just passengers 72 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: on the stage coaches, they would be like yeah, oh yeah, 73 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: put your money in this bag and their jewels and 74 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: all that. Other members of the gang included Frank mc any, 75 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: Joe Man use again that was one of his a 76 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,679 Speaker 1: k a. S. Jack Campbell, John Wells, Tom Reid, Frank Toll, 77 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: and Dutch, Charlie Burris. Yeah, Dutch is because of Red Dead. 78 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: Dutch is one of my favorite outlaw names right now. 79 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 1: But uh, but yeah, I do have to say sim 80 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: John sounds like a Star Wars name. I'm surprised George 81 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: Lucas hadn't hadn't got to that when they're talking about 82 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: the leader. So his nose reference the themes of referring 83 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: to this guy by his nose. It's true his surname 84 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: is Perro or parents. Some people probably called him as well. 85 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 1: His stories believe his nickname was maybe a reference to 86 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: his large nose, which was by multiple sources described a 87 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: beak like, or maybe it was a play on his surname. 88 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: Either way, he definitely had a rep force stealing from 89 00:05:55,120 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: stagecoach travelers, and then eventually he escalated to train raw berries, 90 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: which are you know. I think in the stereotypes of 91 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: the wild West, train robberies are one of the most 92 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: iconic tropes. So let's talk about one of these train robberies. 93 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: Just for an example. August Big Nose and his gang, 94 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 1: along with Dutch, they planned a theft from the Union 95 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: Pacific Railroad. They had a pay car located near Como, Wyoming, 96 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: east of Medicine Bow. At the time, these things were 97 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: kind of predictable because the railroad, this company in particular, 98 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: would carry cash via this pay car on a monthly 99 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: run to pay all of its employees across their network. 100 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 1: So here's what the bandits did. They go to the 101 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: tracks before the car arrives, and they loosen a spike 102 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: in the rails. They wrap it with telegraph wire, and 103 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: then they hide in the nearby brush. And their plan 104 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 1: is like, look, we probably don't have to overthink this. 105 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: We're just gonna hide in them bushes like spive versus 106 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: spy style if you remember that cartoon. And then as 107 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: the train rolls by, we're going to pull that spike 108 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: and that's gonna dislodge the rails. That's gonna cause the 109 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: train to go off the tracks. Boom. We take the 110 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: money and that's you know, insert x gold pieces of 111 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: piece boys or something like that. We don't know if 112 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: it was gold pieces. But unfortunately railroad company employees, we're 113 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: you know, doing their jobs. So they spotted that suspicious 114 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: spike and they actually fixed the damage and then alerted 115 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: the law wave. The train never even got there in 116 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: time for their their little wildly coyote scheme to work. Exactly. 117 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: That's exactly what I was thinking about. Uh, So they 118 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: had to flee. They had to lamb it up to 119 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: Rattlesnake Canyon just the most Western sounding. Is all this 120 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: stuff is so fantastic. At the base of Elk Mountain, 121 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: it was twenty five miles to the southwest of where 122 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: the cry was to have been committed. Uh. The sheriff 123 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: of Carbon County, his deputy, Robert widow Field, and a 124 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: detective employed by the Union Pacific Railroad Company tracked them there, 125 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: a guy named Henry Tip Vincents. So when their two 126 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: pursuers representing the law, the swift hand of justice came 127 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: on their little camp, their bandit camp, the gang actually 128 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: had the drop on them and shot them and then 129 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: buried their bodies uh near where they had you know, 130 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: pitched their camp. Uh, And then they took off again 131 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: to Montana. Perot maintained his freedom for a couple of 132 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: years after that, but things were to take a turn 133 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: in the pretty near future. Yeah. So, even though George 134 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: and some of his compatriots are able to elude the law, 135 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: living as they do on the kind of the edge 136 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:01,959 Speaker 1: of US civilization at this point, not everybody gets away. 137 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: Dutch is caught, historians believe as early as eighteen seventy nine, 138 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: and people were pretty upset that these folks and law 139 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: enforcement were murdered, so there was a lot of tension 140 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: in southern Wyoming. Yeah, it's a big deal. And these days, 141 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: you know, those types of folks would be branded as 142 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: cop killers and be pursued even more aggressively, which makes 143 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,599 Speaker 1: it even more dangerous for the criminals. Maybe not in 144 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: the way you would expect, because now we're looking at 145 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: the possibility of mob justice. On January twenty three, Dutch 146 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:43,439 Speaker 1: is being transported by train from Laramie to Rawlins. His 147 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: train stops for refuel, coal and water at a place 148 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: called Carbon and while the train has stopped, a mob 149 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: cops on board. They physically drag Dutch off and they 150 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: hang him from a telegraph pole. They also don't say, 151 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: you know what, when he's dead, you look in the body. 152 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: They say, this guy is not worthy of being buried 153 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,959 Speaker 1: in the cemetery because that's where Deputy widow Field has 154 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: been laid to rest. So we're putting in an unmarked 155 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: grave somewhere in the brush outside the cemetery boundaries. And 156 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 1: that is historically a huge, huge insult that was far 157 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: older than the US. Ironic, they buried him in the 158 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,199 Speaker 1: very stage brush which she was hiding to get the 159 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: drop on that train, not the exact you know, bush, 160 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: but similar uh so yeah, I mean, at this point, 161 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: George is still lambing it in Montana. After those murders 162 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 1: and that robbery gone bad, he single handedly robbed a 163 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:53,439 Speaker 1: military convoy with some local merchants were traveling east with 164 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,839 Speaker 1: a stockpile of cash. Uh. And he was successful, but 165 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,839 Speaker 1: it was to his ultimate down to fall because he 166 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: got really cocky and therefore pretty sloppy, and he felt 167 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: like he was untouchable. So he returned back to the 168 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: town where the merchant was from and went into a saloon, 169 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 1: presumably leading with that beak like knows of his, and 170 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 1: he started just talking trash bragging about the robbery, about 171 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: the murders. Even I mean, good lord man, he is 172 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: not following the cardinal rules of being on the lamb. 173 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: You keep your mouth shut and keep your head down. 174 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 1: At least that's that's my understanding from like watching the Sopranos. 175 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,959 Speaker 1: But someone of course recognizes the guy, hey, this is 176 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: a big news, you know, uh, and wires the Carbon 177 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:48,959 Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Department, specifically the sheriff himself, James Rankin, who 178 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: high tails it for Montana. In July, Yeah, so that's 179 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: that's the thing. And you know, folks, I'm probably not 180 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: alone and wondering this, But have you ever seen true 181 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: crime shows or accounts of how an outlaw gets caught, 182 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: and there's always that moment where they're like, and then 183 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: the murderer was it the local Applebee's where he talked 184 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 1: about how he had murdered that person and spat on 185 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: their dog as well on the way out. I think 186 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: I'm always mystified how that happens, and I have to assume, 187 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: like some of those people want to get caught. Big 188 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: Nose George the dot. But is it unfair to assume 189 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: that there's alcohol involved? Yeah? I was. I was about 190 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: to say, if if it's an old timey western saloon 191 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: or Applebee's, the old timey western saloon of modern day, 192 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: I would say definitely some some drinks were involved. That's 193 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: what happened. And loose lips do, in fact think ships, 194 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 1: and they certainly sunk Big Nose George. Because he was 195 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: taken in and he was rounded up. The sheriff, James 196 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: Rankin found him and two other members of the gang 197 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: who had escaped, uh and he escorted them back first 198 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 1: to Laramie and then rode with them on a train 199 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: headed to Rollins, with the gut on them the whole 200 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: time saying you're not going to get away that easy. Uh. 201 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: And also I would propose that we say loose lips 202 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,439 Speaker 1: lasso ships. Indeed, the jokes they do not worth it, 203 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: but no pun left behind. Uh, no joke left behind either, 204 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: I think so. So after they returned George to Wyoming, 205 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: there is a mob waiting for him. Rankin was right 206 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: when he assumed there would be a lynch mob waiting, uh. 207 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: And they were going to lynch the guy right off 208 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: the train, according to some folks quoted in Atlas Obscura. 209 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: And I don't want to give you the name of 210 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: the article just yet because it spoils one of the weirdest, 211 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: most grizzly parts of the story. So historians conjecture there 212 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: must have been something at least I think the way 213 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: they say is fairly charismatic about this guy, because George 214 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: was able to convince the lynch mob, let me go 215 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: to trial, don't hang me from the telegraph pole, let 216 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: me let me have that day in court totally. I mean, 217 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: he definitely was able to out talk his partner Dutch, 218 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: who had no such luck. So on September three, eighteen eighty, 219 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: Big Nose George was put to trial or reigned in Rawlins, 220 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: and he was represented by a lawyer, a gentleman named 221 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: George Francis Warden, who was unsuccessful in his defense of 222 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: Big Nose George, who was sentenced to hang by the 223 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: neck until dad on April two, eighteen anyone, oh man, 224 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: there's a there's a two gallant song that is definitely 225 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: not about this. It's called LUs Crusades jail, but it 226 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: has that same vibe the night before the execution kind 227 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: of thing, or you know, somebody sitting in jail thinking 228 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: about their impending mortality. Big George isn't having it. Remember, 229 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: this is what they would call the wild West. Ten 230 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: day 's before his execution takes place, he tries to escape, 231 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: which is a time honored a hobby of many outlaws 232 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: of this air up. Yeah, he had gotten ahold of 233 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: a pocket knife and he had used that to saw 234 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: through the rivets on the leg shackles that bound him, 235 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: and then he snuck up on Robert Rankin and knocked 236 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: the guy in the head with the leg shackles Rankin's 237 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: wife came in mid jail break, and she managed to 238 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: slam the outside door closed and then she fired her 239 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: husband's gun in the air, and people from the town 240 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: came running for help. Word of this attempted, this aboard 241 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: of escape spreads really quickly, right, and what happens another 242 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: mob forms and they're saying, dad, burn it, Dad gumm itt. 243 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: That man had no intention of going forward with his execution. 244 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: He's lying to us the way that he's trying to 245 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: lie to that judge. So they d ACKed him in 246 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: the street again. Yeah, mob justice, Uh, it's it's a 247 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: thing I gotta I gotta say, though, I'm sort of 248 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: proud of George for for showing a little restraint and 249 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: not just like sliddy the guy's throat with the pocket knife. 250 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: He just gave him a good knock over the head. 251 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: And and kudos to to the gentleman's wife for for 252 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: taking the situation in hand, because otherwise George probably would have, 253 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: you know, been on the lamb again. So that's right. 254 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: The lynch party put him up onto a box and 255 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: looped the noose around his neck and the other end 256 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: over a telegraph pole and instructed him to jump Um, 257 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: but you know, in the uh, in the interest of 258 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: his own self preservation, he refused, so he kicked the 259 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: box off from under him. That's how a proper hanging 260 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: supposed to work anyway. Um, and the rope actually broke, 261 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken. So they tried to rinse and repeat, 262 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: grabbed him, put a ladder against the pole, forced him up, 263 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: and strung him up again, and then yanked the ladder away. Um. 264 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: But this didn't go west planned either, did it? Right? 265 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: This part is you know, if you can set your 266 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: humanity and empathy aside, This part is pretty hilarious from 267 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: a prat fall kind of physical comedy aspect. Slapstick is 268 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 1: the word I'm looking for. So they try to hang 269 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: him again. The rope is too short, so it doesn't 270 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: break Perrow's neck. It leaves him too. He's left strangling 271 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 1: slowly asphyxiating on the line. But he didn't They were 272 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: in a rush. They didn't do the best job binding 273 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 1: his hands, so he's able to free them and he's 274 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 1: like shimmying up the pole, lasso still around his neck, 275 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: out of reach of the mob. Picture the Benny Hill 276 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 1: music playing, and the witnesses are saying This was not 277 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:45,479 Speaker 1: super pleasant, funny British comedy. Instead, he was loudly begging 278 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: for someone in the mob to shoot him, to take 279 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: his life. Again. This didn't work. He eventually fell off 280 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: of the poll and he was strung up a third 281 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: time in a hurry, and he was violently strangling again. 282 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: They didn't man in to break his neck, which is 283 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: what you're supposed to do when you hang people. Is 284 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 1: the whole science of the placement of the knots and 285 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: their their calculations. So he strangles and he dies of asphyxiation. 286 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 1: By the time they had brought him down, And this 287 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: is so messed up, the rope had actually rubbed his 288 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: ears off during the during the execution. This is a 289 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: very nasty way to go. Joe Wolf, Yeah, rubbed his 290 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: That's like the most gnarly rope ber and one could 291 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: ever imagine ears rubbed clean off. But that wasn't the 292 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: the end of the story. Death was not the end 293 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: of the indignities that Big Knows George, aside from his nickname, 294 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: would suffer um. After he died, nobody claimed his body 295 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: um so as as was the procedure, his body was 296 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: brought to the coroner's office, but it didn't stick around 297 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: there for very long because it was taken absconded with 298 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 1: under cover of night by a compare of physicians by 299 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 1: the names of John Osborne and Thomas McGhee who wanted 300 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: to experiment on paros dead body and find the source 301 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 1: of his criminality. Uh that this is according to the 302 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: Atlas Obscure article as well. Um, and then then many 303 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: other sources. Yeah, poking around in there. This is the 304 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: early days of science, very rudimentary. They were thinking they 305 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: were doing God's work. I suppose, right, Well, there's you know, 306 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's a lot of speculation at 307 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 1: the time around what we can predict about a person's 308 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 1: behavior based on their physical makeup. So this is a 309 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: time when people would have thought about phrenology, right, Phrenology 310 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: being the discredited pseudoscience saying that certain bumps or certain 311 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: perceived abnormalities and skull shape maybe indicative of positive or 312 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: negative cognitive traits. This is also found up in a 313 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: lot of racism. So doubtlessly they're looking to see if 314 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: he has The surgeon Thomas McGhee is looking to see 315 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: Proos the lobes of his brain to see if there's 316 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: something that he thinks is bigger that's an indicative of 317 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: like greed or avaice or covetousness or what that's right, 318 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: that's right. In order to do that, in order to 319 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 1: get it said brain, he saws the top of George's 320 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: head off, pops the brain out. Or actually he doesn't 321 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: do it. His friend, the physician, John Osborne does it. 322 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: Saws the top of the head off, pops the brain out, 323 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 1: and gives it to his friends Thomas McGhee the surgeon, 324 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: and he you know, does his business. So the top 325 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: portion of big nosed George's skull is given to a 326 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,479 Speaker 1: fifteen year old girl named Lillian Heath, who served as 327 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: McGhee's like surgery assistant, uh and went on to become 328 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 1: Wyoming's first woman physician, which I think it's pretty awesome, 329 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: but what a weird, like disturbing thing to to to 330 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: give a fifteen year old. But she also to mind, 331 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: she also didn't become physician just because of that. She 332 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: had a weird medical absolutely a clear medical career and 333 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: a clear path and then it was was pretty to 334 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 1: a lot of weird frontier medical procedures like this. I 335 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: imagine because she didn't seem to bat an eyelash at 336 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: Supposedly she kept it for her entire life and used 337 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: it interchangeably as an ashtray, a flower pot, and even 338 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: a doorstop. Because you know it's gonna be a little 339 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: heft to the top portion of a human skull. But 340 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: what happened to the rest of the body, you're asking, Well, 341 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: this is where Peru encounters a posthumous career that could 342 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 1: be comparable to the posthumous career of saints. Different parts 343 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 1: of his body go to different places. Once warn everybody, 344 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: if you're a little more delicate of disposition, this may 345 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,719 Speaker 1: be a bit grizzly. So the bottom portion of Proo's 346 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 1: skull is tossed in a whiskey barrel with the rest 347 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: of his bones and his body. It's there for about 348 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: a year while these two men continue their experiments. At 349 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 1: one point we know that Osborne send some body parts 350 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: to a tannery and then commissioned to get this not 351 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: just a pair of shoes, but a medical bag and 352 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: even a coin purse made out of Pero's skin. Osborne 353 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: is very specific about this, and he said, I instructed 354 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: the shoemaker to keep nipples on the ski and to 355 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: prove that the skin was lad of a human. But 356 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: he did not follow my instructions. Uh, no word on 357 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: if there was a refund or discount. And in that 358 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: regard still historians do not know what Osborne's true motive 359 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: may have been for making these grizzly kind of keepsakes, 360 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: because at the time the world of medicine didn't look 361 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: at human remains as you know, incredibly symbolically significant or something. 362 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,159 Speaker 1: They were material you could use in the process of 363 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: education and learning. Once the doctors were done, they made 364 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: the shoes, the coin pers the bag, the flower pot, 365 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 1: the ashtray, etcetera. They buried the barrel with the rest 366 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: of his remains, and that's where his story starts to 367 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 1: fade into legend until a political career brings the shoes 368 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: back to prominence. That's right. Despite this doctor being seemingly 369 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: a bit of a psychopath or at the very least 370 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: an odd character, he became a very popular political candidate 371 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,200 Speaker 1: and in eight two was elected to become the first 372 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: democratic governor of the great state of Wyoming, me And 373 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: was said even then two have worn human skin shoes 374 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 1: At his inaugural ball in ee. So I guess this 375 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: wasn't as odd as we might think of it today. 376 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: It was a little bit more of like a frontier 377 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 1: justice kind of flex, like I represent the law and 378 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 1: order candidate. I mean, look, you just look at my shoes. 379 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 1: They got nipples on them, They got they got outlaw 380 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: nipples on my shoes. It didn't have the nipples. Remember 381 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: he's still bad about that. Yeah, well that's a bummer. 382 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: But they Okay, if if he had had his drouthers, 383 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 1: they would have had outlaw nipples on the shoes. Um, 384 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: how else are you gonna know? Uh? Later, Osborne would 385 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: actually become the Assistant Secretary of State under President Woodrow Wilson, 386 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: so a storied career in politics, despite being a bit 387 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: of a ed geane kind of figure. You know, yeah, 388 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 1: Mr President, I know we've got a lot of stuff 389 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: going on in the nation. But have I ever told 390 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: you about these shoes? And then Wilson, you know, just 391 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: with a cerbic wit, told him, well, if they're human skin, 392 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: where are the nipples, buddy, nipples on a breastplate? Remember 393 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 1: that expression? And Game of Thrones, yes, yes I do. Uh. 394 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: And and the debate regarding oh maybe it was the 395 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: Schumacher batman. But yes, you're right, the shoes continued to 396 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: play a role. And this means that in some way, 397 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: Big Nosed George's life was where his his legacy was 398 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: not what he had intended. We can only imagine. However, 399 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: the story of his body doesn't end there. On May eleven, 400 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 1: construction workers we're doing some extrivation to create a new 401 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: building on Cedar Street, and then they found a whiskey barrel. 402 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: And when they opened that whiskey barrel, they found it 403 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: was filled with human bones. Later they would learn this 404 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: location was behind the building that served as Dr McGee's 405 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: office slash Mad Scientists Lab for years and years before, 406 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: and it was pretty clear based on the cadaverous contents 407 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: of the barrel who they belonged to in life. There 408 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: were numerous human bones, including get this, a skull with 409 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 1: the top saw it off, and just like the two 410 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: people who had gathered around to watch Big George be 411 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: hanged three times, a crowd gathers around to watch as 412 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: this barrel of bones is retrieved. And that's when our 413 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: former fifteen year old who later becomes a physician comes 414 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: back into the story, which I did not expect I know, 415 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: it's a twist indeed. I mean she's well into her 416 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: eighties at this point, but still alive and well. Uh. 417 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 1: And she gets contacted, her husband brings the skull cap 418 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: to the scene and like Excalibur from the Sword in 419 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: the Stone or the reverse kind of version of that. Uh. 420 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 1: I can think it's some other references in pop culture, 421 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: but Cinderella, there you go, boom glass, slipper baby, the 422 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: skull cap fits perfectly and they all live happily ever after, 423 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: sort of the yeah exactly. Um. So, at this point 424 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 1: the locals were convinced that these were in fact the 425 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 1: remains of Big Nose George. At the time, they didn't 426 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 1: need any other proof. But then then you had the 427 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: magic of DNA testing coming into the picture and and 428 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,640 Speaker 1: in fact did verify that that is what these were. Yep. 429 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 1: Today you can see the upper half of his skull 430 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: and the shackles that were used while he was hanging 431 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: in the collection of a railroad museum in Iowa, the 432 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: Carbon County Museum, because the people who discovered the bones 433 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: immediately offered them to this museum. In rollins. Right now, 434 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: we don't know what happened to the medical bag, and 435 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: we know that the coin purse was at one point 436 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: or another quote unquote misplaced. They know it was the 437 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 1: coin pers was once upon a time in the museum's 438 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: collection because there was an gentleman who had worked at 439 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: the museum for decades and knew that they had the 440 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: coin person at one point. The cataloging system wasn't probably 441 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,439 Speaker 1: super good. A lot of the people working there were volunteers, 442 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 1: so maybe a little more likely to take a keepsake. Noel. 443 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: The whole time I was reading this story, you know, 444 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: I kept wondering what they used to make the coin person, 445 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: kept hoping it wasn't the obvious answer for which coin 446 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: person is also a euphemism, But it very much was. 447 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: Some of the people volunteering at the museum may have 448 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: just thrown the coin pers away or purposely lost it 449 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: because they felt inappropriate handling it. Because was made out 450 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: of George's scrotum. I gotta say, though, not to be 451 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: too you know gross about scrotum is a perfect material 452 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: to make a coin person out of. The shape is there, 453 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: It's really there? You really have, Yeah, it holds up. Indeed, 454 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: you don't really have to retrofit it too much. You know, Sorry, 455 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: I know that's morbid, but so is the story. But 456 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: delightfully so. This is a fun amalgam of frontier justice 457 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: and uh, corpse desecration and just good old ingenuity, you know, 458 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: making skull caps into ashtrays. Yeah, it's it's very there's 459 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: more than a tinge of Cormac McCarthy's vision of the 460 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: West here, totally. Yeah, you can go see it today. 461 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,479 Speaker 1: Depending on how COVID works out of vaccination, you may 462 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: even run into the museum's director, Kelly Bohannan. Bohannan has 463 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: done a couple of things to modernize the displays. One 464 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: of those is that they've moved the human shoes too 465 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: an area behind like a partial wall, so that if 466 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: you're sensitive to seeing human remains in that way, you 467 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: can avoid it. You won't just get like, you won't 468 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: just get surprised or pranked by this grizzly keepsake. And 469 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: this brings us to another question, and we've talked about 470 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: on Ridiculous History a little, but even more so on 471 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: on another show called Stuff they Don't Want You to Know. 472 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: How do you properly deal with the remains of the dead? 473 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: How do you deal with these folks who were outlaws. 474 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: I mean, like, this was a big deal. If you 475 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: ever saw the Bodies exhibit when it came through the US, 476 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: this was a big deal when people started asking about 477 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: the provenance of those bodies that we're used in those displays. 478 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: Who were these people, what was their background, and how 479 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: do they come to be used in this display, which 480 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: admittedly is really cool, But also there are ethical questions 481 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: involved in any museum curatorial process, right whether it's like 482 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: worth these artifacts stolen from indigenous people perhaps, or from 483 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: some culture that was looted and and they actually belong 484 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: with that culture, for example, or in that country. This 485 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: is a different question. This is more a question of 486 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: human dignity, because I think we would all agree that 487 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 1: whatever big nosed George's crimes may have been, however heinous, 488 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: you probably didn't deserve to have his scrotum removed and 489 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: turned into a coin purse. Yeah, exactly, And today his 490 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: skulls not on display, I don't believe, but you can. 491 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: You can see the shoes and Bohannon tries to see 492 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: both sides of the issues. She's quoted in Atlas Obscura, 493 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: you know, pointing out that yes, he was a criminal. 494 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: He killed two members of law enforcement. And bohan And says, 495 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: maybe there's still some wild West sentiment, the idea that 496 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,959 Speaker 1: because these folks were criminals, they don't deserve the posthumous 497 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 1: dignity that are you know, members of the law abiding 498 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 1: public would deserve. But then there are other people who 499 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: would say, you know, their shoes, they're made to look 500 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: like shoes, their warren is shoes, therefore their shoes. And 501 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: Bohanan says, well, the other side of that, basically is 502 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: imagine telling that to someone's like living relative, their mother, 503 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: you know, their kid. That's some cold stuff to say. 504 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: But no, only I think we have to confess no judgment. 505 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: And there is a certain segment of the ridiculous historian 506 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: population listening today and saying, guys, I got it. You've 507 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: sold me. Where can I buy a pair of human 508 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: skin shoes? Have you missed the point where maybe a 509 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: little you're well, yeah, what what points aside? You are 510 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: in luck? Because there is a it's it's a really 511 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: basic website. I'm almost borderline convinced that's not real. But 512 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: it's a company called the Human Leather Company. Their little 513 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: subtitle is Ultimate bespoke leather products. Um, and it looks 514 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: like on the on the front page is a wallet, 515 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: quite crusty looking wallet. And they described themselves and there 516 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: about me section. We are a specialized leather products company, 517 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: and we only worked to a very specific order book. 518 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: In fact, we only craft a very limited number of 519 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: pieces per year, depending on our stock of raw materials. 520 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,479 Speaker 1: We closed our order book a few years ago as 521 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: our waiting list became too large for us to be 522 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 1: able to service all our outstanding requests. We will soon, ever, 523 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 1: be opening our waiting list again to our exclusive clientele. 524 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: So if you're interested in potentially yeah oh this is 525 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: by the way, please keep your inboxes and your mind's open. Um. 526 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: You can drop them a line and info at human 527 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: leather dot com. Need we say more human leather? Apparently 528 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: a pair of leather human leather shoes from this company, 529 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: though I see no price lists here, running about twenty 530 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 1: seven grand. Well, this was back when, um so this 531 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: comes from an article on how stuff works, which I 532 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: will point out is a fantastic, fantastic article by jess 533 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 1: Lynn Shields. So it's possible that when Shields was working 534 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: on this, the website was a little more open. But 535 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: it's also possible that this website maybe a bit of 536 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: a prank, similar to the hoofu website from years ago, 537 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: which which said it was selling human flavor tofu. I 538 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: tried to order some, and then I quickly learned that 539 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: they got me. It wasn't wasn't a real thing. So 540 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: who knows? Who knows? One way to find out is 541 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,399 Speaker 1: to email that address info at human leather dot com 542 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,280 Speaker 1: and let us know. Let us know what you find 543 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: should you feel so inclined, you know. No, I don't 544 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: know what else they sell. I I hope it's not 545 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: coin purses. It looks like that. It's definitely a wallet. Uh, 546 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: It's definitely looks like a leather wallet of some sort 547 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: in the one picture they have on the website. They 548 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: have also set up a Bitcoin donation payments. So juries 549 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: out on whether or not these folks are continuing the 550 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: legacy of Osbourne. There but here ends the tale. Our 551 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: first tale from Wyoming, the story of Big Nose George 552 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: all goes to show Man. The end of his life 553 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: was kind of the beginning of his story in American culture, 554 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,839 Speaker 1: which is rough. It's weird how that works out sometimes. Um, 555 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: but huge Thanks to Gave Luzier, researcher extraordinaire for the 556 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 1: hot tip on the Human Leather Company and big nose. George, Um, 557 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,839 Speaker 1: that's that's that's a really interesting one. I would love 558 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: to see this dramatized. At the very least. This feels 559 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: like a very grizzly entry into some sort of maccabre 560 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: Wild West anthologies here you know what I mean. And brothers, 561 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,839 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, go Cohen and McCarthy get the band 562 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: back together. I love it, and just have McCarthy right. 563 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: Some vignettes in a new anthology will call it the 564 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: Dark Ballad of Buster Scruggs or the Ballad of Buster 565 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 1: Scrugs after Dark. Also just call it wild West Skin 566 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,360 Speaker 1: of Max. That's two on the nose because of the shoes. 567 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: Look more Workshop on the nose, on the big nose. 568 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: That's two on the big nose. Thanks also, of course, 569 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,800 Speaker 1: to our super producer Casey Pegram, our guest producer Andrew Howard, 570 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: Thanks to Christopher Hasciotis, and thanks to Eve's Jeff co 571 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: who uh noll. I think we should have back on 572 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 1: the show pretty soon. What do you say? Yes? I 573 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: completely agree. Eves is a delight. Please check out her 574 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: show This Day in History Class, which says the name 575 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 1: implies it as a daily history podcast where each episode 576 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:55,879 Speaker 1: coincides with that calendar date and some cool historical thing 577 00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 1: that happened on that day in history. Also ja Ill 578 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 1: the podcast The Sturing the wonderful and talented Mrs Jill Scott. 579 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: That Eve's also produces huge thanks to Alex Williams, who 580 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:11,399 Speaker 1: composed our theme. Jonathan Strickland the Quister. I think we're 581 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: we're safe from him for a little while, but you 582 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 1: never know. The clock, the giant Grandfather clock is always 583 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: taking on that one. Yeah, we better screwed through the 584 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: outro too before he finds out we're recording. So, folks, 585 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:28,280 Speaker 1: one serious question. How do you think museums should handle 586 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:34,720 Speaker 1: pieces artifacts that have a controversial providence, whether that relates 587 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 1: to human rights and dignity, or whether that relates to 588 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: things taken from another culture. Let us know. You can 589 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 1: find us on the internet. We like to recommend ridiculous 590 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,799 Speaker 1: historians on Facebook, but you can find us as individuals 591 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 1: as well. We certainly can. You can find me at 592 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 1: how Now Noel Brown on Instagram, where I pretty much 593 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,400 Speaker 1: hang out exclusively I've got a Twitter somewhere out there. 594 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: I think I switched it to at how now Noel 595 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: Brown on Twitter, but I don't really been. On the 596 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 1: other hand, is a prolific Twitter and instagrammer? Oh thanks, No, importantly, 597 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,839 Speaker 1: prolific is not the same thing as good. You can 598 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,360 Speaker 1: find me at Ben Bullen H. S W on Twitter, 599 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,800 Speaker 1: where you'll see me mid research on a lot of 600 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 1: strange things. You can also find me at Ben Bullan 601 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:24,479 Speaker 1: bo w l I n on Instagram. No new goal 602 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: in life, I propose I want to speak for all 603 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 1: of us on the show here. Yeah, let's try not 604 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 1: to be human. Shoot not to be human. She's okay. 605 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,839 Speaker 1: I don't think I don't need that in my life. 606 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 1: The Human Leather Company can can go with God, but 607 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:43,439 Speaker 1: uh count me out. Yeah, Human skin Books is about 608 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: as far as I would go and have to be 609 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 1: a really good book or some kind of necronomicon. Yeah, 610 00:38:49,239 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: we'll see you next time books. For more podcasts from 611 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, 612 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.