1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never Told You from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. And today's topic came um from 4 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: the co host of Pop Stuff, one of our fellow 5 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works podcast Tracy. She came up to me 6 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: one day and she said, Hey, I've got an idea 7 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: for stuff Mom Never Told you You and Caroline should 8 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: tackle whether or not dieting is anti feminist, because uh, 9 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: and I was like, that's a that's a good idea, 10 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: because the more I thought about it, the more complicated 11 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: the answer to that question quickly became. Yeah, everybody has 12 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,639 Speaker 1: opinions on what you should do with your diet, right 13 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: because on on the one hand, um, you know, you 14 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: can argue from the choice perspective of feminism that, well, 15 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,919 Speaker 1: if you choose to diet, And in terms of dieting, 16 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: we're talking about like the typical like caloric restriction in 17 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: order to lose weight and saying like, if that's your 18 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: choice and that should be fine, and then other camp 19 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: saying no, dieting should not be practiced because it only 20 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 1: I guess goes in like feeds upon there. It only 21 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: feeds the male gaze you're only getting thin for ultimately 22 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: paternalistic reasons, and then some people saying you shouldn't even 23 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: look in the mirror to begin with. You know, there's 24 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: a lot of and and in a good way. There 25 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: is a lot of um fat acceptance going around right now, 26 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: and that definitely needs to happen. But then, like it 27 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: just starts. It can be overwhelming though, if you just 28 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: want to answer that question of dieting right because when 29 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: Chris and I were talking about this topic, we were 30 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: emailing back and forth about it, and I told her, 31 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: I was like, I feel like I'm going down the 32 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: fat rabbit hole here because you start reading You're like, okay, 33 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: diets gender seems pretty straightforward, right, No, not not at all, 34 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: because yeah, you can read the statistics on you know, 35 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: who's dieting, how much are they dieting, Does it work, 36 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: does it fail? Um? But then you start getting into well, 37 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: if you diet, you're not a good woman, You're you're 38 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 1: being bad at being a woman. Basically, well, yeah, you're 39 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: buying into this system, the patriarchy. But then there's people 40 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: who say, well, I'm just gonna eat whatever I want 41 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: and I'm not going to let the doctor, weigh, weigh me, 42 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: weay myself, you know, at the doctor's office, because that's 43 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: body fascism. There's a lot of like extreme resistance to 44 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: the idea of diets. And while I could go on 45 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: a tangent about how I think diets are stupid and 46 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: if you want to take care of your body, you should, 47 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: and you should just make a lifestyle change, like a 48 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: lifestyle diet, the capital d diet of paying attention to 49 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:08,079 Speaker 1: eating wholesome foods exactly. But I'm not going to tell 50 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: you that you should do that. I'm not going to 51 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 1: tell you that you should lose weight or not lose 52 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: weight based on whether you're a woman, a man, a 53 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: feminist and anti feminist, whether you're a child, someone who 54 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: lives in another country, whether you're a puppy. I don't know. 55 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: And it's not just like saying no to dieting, but 56 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: you know the type of weight loss program they want 57 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: to go to. But one thing I think that that 58 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: we can go ahead and establish is that there are 59 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: a lot of companies making a lot of money off 60 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: of a fat phobia of all of this diet marketing 61 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: um that goes on. For instance, uh, the US diet 62 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: and weight loss industry produced over sixty billion dollars in 63 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: revenue in two thousand eleven alone, so a lot of 64 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: us are buying into it. And then I mean, we 65 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: could just tailspin off into conversations about whether or not 66 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: processed diet food is really all that good for you. 67 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: But it's big. The marketing is mostly targeted to women. 68 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: I believe it was in two thousand eleven that weight 69 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: Watchers launched its first campaign toward men, and Sociological Images 70 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: a great blog you should totally check out if you 71 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: haven't before. H did a comparison of a typical weight 72 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: Watchers at targeted toward women. That's just like, oh, you know, 73 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: you're you're gonna look so good eat these small portions 74 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: of food and I'm not trying to diswait watch them. 75 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: I also know that plenty of people have had success 76 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: from that system, and that's totally fine. But then when 77 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: they had an ad for their men's launch, it was like, 78 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: you know, get on weight Watchers and like a man, 79 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: it was still very you know, there was obviously it 80 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: was obviously saying, know, hey, we know that dieting is 81 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: more this thing for for women, but look, you can 82 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: retain your masculinity and still do it. It's the same 83 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: reason why diet coke exists and has like a nice 84 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: font and a lot of times in the commercials that 85 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: is held by you know, a thin woman who's watching 86 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: a shirtless construction worker, and then coke zero exists in 87 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: black and aura. You know, why don't men ever? Why 88 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: aren't there ever men in yogurt commercials? Because they're all 89 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: eating man witches on their man diet. Yeah, there is 90 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: no Hungry Woman brand of frozen dinner, which maybe I 91 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: should start. Maybe I don't know why. That just made 92 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: me so sad. Hungry woman dinner. It's just yogurt, guys, 93 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: guess what now? And on the front there's like just 94 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 1: a cartoon picture of a woman like staring digit holding 95 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: a spoon, staring dejectedly into her bowl. It's just a 96 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: frozen yogurt and salad. It's no dressing, oh goodness, and 97 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: single cherry tomato. Well, let's get into some research because 98 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: the sad thing too about this whole uh the dieting 99 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 1: question is that there is a seed that is often 100 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 1: planted very early in little girls brains, especially that they 101 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: do need to change their shape. Yeah, we're so screwed. Um. 102 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: The aversion to foundness starts very young. This is a 103 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: study from the Journal of Applied Developmental Psychology that found 104 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 1: the existence of negative attitudes toward overweight people in kids 105 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: as young as three. Yeah, and that also that that 106 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: study also found that both boys and girls will adopt 107 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: this fat is bad mindset um. But at the same time, 108 00:06:55,400 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: overweight preschoolers also demonstrated stronger stigmatisms. It starts to compound 109 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: because they are aware of of this um fat phobia 110 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: in our culture. Yeah, and you know, playing off of that, 111 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: these whole these attitudes about weight can be passed down 112 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: from moms to daughters. This is a British Journal of 113 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: Clinical Psychology study from July that found that mothers of 114 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: high restraint girls basically that means high restraint means they 115 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: practice a lot of high restraint behaviors as far as 116 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: food goes and calories. So mothers of high restraint girls 117 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: reported more between meal snacking and fasting than comparison mothers. 118 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: They also rated their daughters attractiveness significantly lower than other mothers. 119 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: There are a lot of um like moving parts in 120 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: the study that they looked at like family dynamics when 121 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: the mother has food issues and the daughter ends up 122 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: inheriting those food issues from her mother, because it's kind 123 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: of a learned behavior. This happened. I mean, I don't 124 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: think that I have terrible food issues or anything, but 125 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: I watched my mother diet throughout my child hood. She 126 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: wasn't even big, but I watched. I mean, I went 127 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: to she'd take me to weight Watchers. I sat in 128 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: the lobby at the Nutril System building in the Strip mall. Like. 129 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: I went to a lot of diet related activities with her. 130 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: Do you think that that, as a result kind of 131 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: increased your version toward dieting, like seeing that endless cycle. 132 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: It could be, because it's not like she would go 133 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: to weight Watchers and come home and be like, you 134 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: know what, that was great. I feel really good about myself. 135 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: You know, I met a lot of women who were 136 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: also struggling, and I'm going to press forward or Okay, 137 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: I went to Neutral System and I picked up my 138 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: great meals. No, she would come home and complain about 139 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: the meetings, complain about how hard it was, complain about 140 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: how terrible the food was and cardboard and all that stuff. 141 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: So I was just like oh, why would you want 142 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: to do that. I'll have another cup of ice cream 143 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: plays thanks mom. Uh. Yeah, and I would also be 144 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: interested to see, um if they expanded that study population 145 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 1: from I mean, it makes a lot of sense to 146 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: look at that mother water relationship, but I am sure 147 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: that it can criss cross from fathers to children, uh 148 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: sons as well. Especially we're seeing that more and more 149 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: now with uh younger boys having similar kinds of body 150 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: image issues as we would typically associate with younger girls. Um. 151 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: And you mentioned the highly restrained activities like I eat, 152 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: lots of portion control going on and uh. In that 153 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: same issue of the British Journal of Clinical Psychology, there 154 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: was a study tracking the rise of dieting and childhood 155 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: childhood and at a lescence and it was looking at 156 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: nine year olds and fourteen year old girls. And yes, 157 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: they're they're dieting. And that's not to me, that's not 158 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: surprising at all, especially for the fourteen year olds. Yeah, 159 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: but it is sad to think, like, I'm trying to 160 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: think back to myself as a nine year old, and 161 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: I think to me that just now is of course 162 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: sounds so young, Like, oh my gosh, you're such a baby, 163 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: like go play on the sandbox or whatever. But I 164 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: remember being ten and writing in my diary like I'm fat, 165 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 1: I don't feel good about myself, you know, stuff like that. 166 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: So it is terrible to know that, like our cultural 167 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: prejudices are seeping into children's brains. Yeah, and those and 168 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 1: those girls who are dieting would express lower body esteem 169 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: and discontent with their body build. And they would have 170 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: certain already even at nine and fourteen, they would have 171 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: trouble spots that they would point out. And I remember 172 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: I remember similar things, you know, looking in uh A 173 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: Delia's catalog, and those girls thighs did not touch. My 174 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: thighs touched and I hated and I was yeah, and 175 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: it's that same age range. Yeah, well there's you know, 176 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: we we mentioned that there's also issues with boys. This 177 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: is not just contained two girls and their dieting problems. 178 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: Uh A record study found that similar to women and girls, 179 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: boys were more likely to be dissatisfied with their bodies 180 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: when they were relatively heavy and have low self esteem. However, 181 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 1: while weight status is usually the primary predictor of girls 182 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 1: body dissatisfaction, there's more at play for boys. It's kind 183 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: of different. It appears that, according to the study, psychological 184 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: factors like self esteem may be more essential to boys 185 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: body perceptions, whereas typically all it takes is the girls 186 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: just looking in the mirror and looking at everything around 187 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 1: them and starting to mentally compare. Um. And, I mean 188 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: you also have to take into account when we're talking 189 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: about these kinds of gender differences, the beauty myth differences 190 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: in the and this is in big old air quotes 191 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: ideal body shape for a woman compared to an ideal 192 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,959 Speaker 1: body shape for a man. A lot of times, Um, 193 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: you'll have more men can like complaining of being underweight 194 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: because they don't have that that muscular V shape that 195 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: is idealized in ascial and culture as opposed to you know, 196 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: the thin, whispy feminine shape. Although can't you really mean 197 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: I don't know that it would have been constitute feminine 198 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: at that point when you get you get so so 199 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: bonesy about it, right, Well, you know, you you talked 200 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: about the difference between what men and women want to 201 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: attain as far as that ideal body shape. Um, and 202 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: that just goes right along with an October two thousand 203 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: five study in the journal Sex Roles that found different 204 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: motivations behind are potentially health compromising to have behavior. So 205 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: we're not talking about like having a healthy routine at 206 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 1: the gym and a healthy like I'm going to eat 207 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,199 Speaker 1: a salad with dinner kind of thing. We're talking about 208 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: health compromising having a hungry woman dinner, having a hungry 209 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: woman dinner, and just crying, I'm gonna drink tears with 210 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: dinner tonight, honey. Um. Yeah. They found that in their 211 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: sample of this study, the majority of men in the 212 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: study sample were overweight or obese, but they were more 213 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 1: likely than women to be satisfied with their bodies. What's 214 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: up with that? Well, I think it's it has to 215 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: do a little bit with um different psychologies that it 216 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: mentioned that uh, men don't consider they don't label eating 217 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: a lot of food at one time as binging in 218 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: the same way and then and they also have more 219 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: of an aversion to fur into something as as dieting. 220 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: You know, it's not it's not. It doesn't seem like 221 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: it's quite as uh, this is good food, this is 222 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: bad food. Yeah. Well, they also point out that, uh, 223 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: as far as the motives behind the unhealthy behavior, men 224 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: were more likely to engage in unhealthy like crash diet 225 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: stuff if they were heavier, so like, Okay, I'm heavier, 226 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to lose weight. Whereas women wanted to 227 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: look thinner, they wanted to look much thinner than even 228 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: the infrequent dieters did. So women it was more about appearance, 229 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: looking a certain way. Men were just like, I'm kind 230 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: of heavy, I should lose weight. Well, and this would 231 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: be a good to him to point out this this theory, 232 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,839 Speaker 1: uh that was written about in Salon in April two 233 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: thleven by David Saroda, and he was talking about fat 234 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: guy privilege and essentially saying that there is a double 235 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: standard in the demand for physical perfection from women while 236 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: bigger dudes, yeah whatever, you're just a big guy. Hey, yeah, 237 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: and one that I think of all the time. Well, 238 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: because this is something I think about all the time. 239 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: But it is it's like you see in all these sitcoms, 240 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: like a guy like Kevin James paired with what's her name, 241 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: the teeny tiny lady who plays his wife on that show, 242 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: and but that's okay, like that's socially acceptable. Big funny guy, 243 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: big funny people whatever, paired with little teeny tiny women 244 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: won't even think about um John Goodman and Roseanne barr On. 245 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: Roseanne like John Goodman was you know, he's awesome and 246 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: he's hilarious, big guy. And then Roseanne always was getting 247 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: like body snarked for being a bigger woman and her, 248 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: you know, she was portrayed as more of you know, 249 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: an old crab, and it was related in a way. 250 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it's partially just her her comedic style. Uh, 251 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: but I think it was a lot to do with that, 252 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: with that double standard, because we don't you know, it's 253 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: not as much of an okay, passable thing. Yeah, it's 254 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: not a liability for men, Yeah, to be really big 255 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: like Chris Farley. Obviously everybody loves Chris Farley, big guy, 256 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: whereas female comedians or female actresses don't get that same consideration. 257 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: It's like, oh, I just see your weight first. And 258 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: perhaps that's why, as Certa points out, of the commercial 259 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: weight loss industries, clients are female, and uh, probably weight 260 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: watchers waited so long to even target men because they 261 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: haven't seen them as a viable um demographic. But I 262 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 1: have a feeling though, we're going to see more of 263 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: that as the beauty industries. It has started pay far 264 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: more attention to getting stoking the fears of men. So 265 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: welcome to crazy town, fellas join us soon hungry man 266 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: dinners will be Justice said, Um, but yeah, so, you know, 267 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: we've touched on issues of like how it's more socially 268 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: acceptable for a guy to be big a woman should 269 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: be small, but somehow with ginormous boobs and hips and 270 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: all that stuff, unrealistic expectations. Yeah, so on that it 271 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: sounds like what we're saying now is with this question 272 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: of whether or not, uh, it's okay for a woman 273 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: to diet, and can she still be like a liberal minded, 274 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: pro woman, pro equality gal Um, No, right, you know 275 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: we we should just abandon all of that and not 276 00:16:52,360 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: buy into this culture. But then, but then, and it's 277 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: also I can tell you that I feel better, I 278 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: have more energy, I am friendlier in general when I am. 279 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: I'm not not dieting necessarily, but I'm eating well and 280 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: exercising and probably am slimmer than I am when I'm 281 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: not well. That is part of the Is it more 282 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: feminist to take care of yourself on a consistent, you know, 283 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: lifestyle basis, or is it more feminist to say screw you? 284 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: You guys are making me feel bad about my spare tire. Yeah, 285 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: and also like, uh, you know you don't want to 286 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: It's like your a cog and that giant machine and 287 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 1: you don't want to comply. So let's let's let's first 288 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: touch on some arguments out there, because some women certainly say, like, 289 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: the dieting is a huge feminist you because it has 290 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: to deal directly with our bodies and how we relate 291 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: to the world. Yeah. Well, Janna Ficken and Esther rothbloom 292 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: Inn had a great study, a great analysis that looked 293 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 1: at the prices that women pay as a result of 294 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: weight based discrimination. Basically that being overweight affects a lot 295 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: of aspects of women's lives, whereas men don't receive they're 296 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 1: not on the receiving end of that same type of discrimination, 297 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: which would probably go back to that quote unquote fat 298 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: guy privilege that I mentioned earlier. And so as a result, 299 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: and this was something that was initially um written about 300 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy eight by Susie Orbach in the book 301 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: Fat Is a Feminist Issue. They argue that because women 302 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 1: are held to higher standards of thin thinness and suffer 303 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: greater penalties if they don't meet that finness ideal, then yes, 304 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: this is a feminist issue and we need to nip 305 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: it in the bud. Right. They are also argue that 306 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: it's a feminist issue because it ties into the workplace. Uh. 307 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: They looked at several different studies about you know, a 308 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: fat woman wouldn't be hired whereas a fat man would 309 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: have no problem, or people express prejudice like well, I 310 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: don't really want to work with a fat woman, and 311 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: so this study about like people who don't want to 312 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:28,479 Speaker 1: work with fat women. Um, they were rated negatively on 313 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: supervisory potential, self disciplined, professional appearance, personal hygiene, and ability 314 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: to perform a physically strenuous job. And that's crazy to 315 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: me because all these uh, these people in the study, 316 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: the raiders that they were rating written descriptions. It's not 317 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: like they were looking at someone in front of them 318 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: and judging whether that person could be a good boss. 319 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: But it just kind of blows my mind that you 320 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: would rate someone negatively on supervisory potential because they're overweight. 321 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: So that's a big argument that like, you know, if 322 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: people don't want to work for or with overweight women, 323 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: than that is a feminist issue. Yeah, there's also UM 324 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: an interesting sexual orientation tie in as well that was 325 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: written in the written about in the journal Sex Roles 326 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: in October two thousand eleven by Abigail Saggy and UM. 327 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: She talks about how UH, with fat activism like the 328 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 1: whole body acceptance campaigns, lesbians have been disproportionately active and 329 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:31,199 Speaker 1: outspoken in the fat rights movement, and she quotes British 330 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: activist Charlotte Cooper UM talking about how while fat women 331 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: typically internalized quote social messages of being second class, fat 332 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: queers are quote a little bit more advanced and that 333 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: we are able better able to reject homophobia or question 334 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: assimilation UM and then going on to another essay in 335 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: the Fat Studies Reader from two thousand nine, there's an 336 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: essay by s Bear Bergman, whom I identifies as transgender, 337 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 1: UM and it's often perceived as a man two thirds 338 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: of the time, and Bergman is is larger and and 339 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 1: talks about how before UM identifying as transgender and UH 340 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 1: and dressing as a woman, there was so much humiliation 341 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: associated with being overweight, but being perceived as a big guy, 342 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: it's completely gone away. Yeah. Bergman was writing about how 343 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: when being perceived as a woman, she would be followed, 344 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: like people would be yelling at her. Even described an 345 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 1: instance where in a restaurant, you know, she would ask 346 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: for butter or something and they would be like nah, 347 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: they would conveniently forget to bring it. Whereas when identifying 348 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: as a man, he was treated like, hey, dude, you're 349 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: an awesome guy. You're funny, you're great, Like nobody looked 350 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: askance when he was shopping for clothes at the store, 351 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 1: Whereas as a big woman, people are like, oh my god, 352 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: look at that woman shopping for big clothes. So again, 353 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: it seems like things might be stacking up in favor 354 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: of saying no dieting. That's we're just buying into this 355 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 1: horrible system and we need to change that. Right, But 356 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: there's still, uh, there's still another side of that argument. 357 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: And Kirsten Grus knows about this firsthand. She is a sociologist, 358 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 1: and she's also writing a book that's coming out in 359 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: spring of two thousand thirteen called Mirror, Mirror, Off the 360 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: Wall that documents the three sixty five days she spent 361 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 1: not looking at herself in the mirror. And she wrote 362 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: a post for society Pages dot org talking about how 363 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: she is. She's a recovered anorexic and that process made 364 00:22:54,880 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: her a feminist, but now she wants to lose some weight, 365 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: and she is incredibly conflicted about it. Yeah, because the 366 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 1: whole thing is like, Okay, well, I found myself at 367 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: an uncomfortable weight for me personally, and you know, I'm 368 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: in I'm in kind of tricky territory because as of 369 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 1: recovering anorexic and someone who considers herself a feminist, like, 370 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: am I allowed to lose weight? Will people judge me? 371 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: Will it be dangerous? Will be bad for me? And 372 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: so she says, given the patriarchal, patriarchal bargain of weight loss, 373 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: being radically anti diet as a political stance doesn't always 374 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: fit comfortably as a personal stance, right because I guess 375 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: the way that it has been framed, Unfortunately, because of 376 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: all of the fat phobia and the thin privilege that 377 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: exists in our culture that we don't want to support 378 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: when it comes down to our personal choice of perhaps 379 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,199 Speaker 1: wanting to lose weight, perhaps wanting to go on a diet. 380 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: Um For instance, Emily McCombs um, who is an editor 381 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: over at exo jain dot com or a post about how, um, 382 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: she diets because she has an unhealthy relationship with food 383 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 1: and she needs that kind of structure or else there 384 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: will be a tailspin. And that's simply how it's going 385 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: to have to be. It doesn't make her less of 386 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: a feminist, but for her, that's what works best. But 387 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 1: then other people say, don't use choice feminism as a 388 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: cop out, you know, just acknowledge call of spade to 389 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: spade and say, yeah, at some point, like we are 390 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: just buying in but you want to diet. Yeah, I mean, 391 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: there was the argument that just because you're a woman 392 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: and you're doing something doesn't make it feminist. But that's 393 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: okay because it's really not anybody else's business what you're 394 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: doing with your body or your weight, whether you're eating 395 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: right and exercising or not. Yeah, I just wonder if, um, 396 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, if we're we're too I don't want 397 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: to say if we're like too concerned about it, because 398 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: obviously body image, having nine year old dieting that is 399 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: that is not a sign that we are in a 400 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 1: healthy place as like a collective um community. But if 401 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: if I am stressing out over you know, choosing to 402 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,719 Speaker 1: be choosier about my food for a little while. Because 403 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: I put on more weight than I wanted to than 404 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 1: should I feel some kind of feminist guilt. I don't 405 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: know that that's a good sign of things either, you 406 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: know what I mean? That's why this Uh, like we 407 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: said the beginning of this podcast, answering this question was 408 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: perhaps more complicated than than we thought it would be. Yeah, well, 409 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: I mean it's an issue of control. Uh. Aerial Stallings 410 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 1: of an alternate dot Org wrote that when you buy 411 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 1: into the idea that thinking about food makes you a 412 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: victim of the patriarchy, there's a certain loss of control. 413 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: So there's a potential loss of control everywhere, because you're 414 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: gonna lose control as a feminist, or you're gonna lose 415 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: control as a thin person or as a fat person, 416 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 1: or as you know, someone who's worried about the patriarchy 417 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: and what society wants from us. It's like, oh, who 418 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: am I answering to today? Uh? So you know in 419 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 1: that regard, just like, just eat a sandwich or don't 420 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: eat a sandwich, but stop stressing me out about it, right? 421 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: Is that a cop out? No? I don't. I don't 422 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: think that. Um, I don't think that's a cop out 423 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: at all, because if we all right, so let's let's 424 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: take it one more time, like to the extreme other side, 425 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: saying like, absolutely, food is a feminist issue. This was 426 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: coming from Heather Lane Tally and she was writing about 427 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: the uh, the new U s d A guidelines that 428 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: instead of getting rid of the food pyramid and having 429 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: um my my plate, you know, the nice little plate 430 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: with it all portioned off showing you how many leafy 431 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: grains and such that you should eat, And she said that, 432 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: you know, nutrition is merely a trope that employs scientific 433 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:07,400 Speaker 1: neutrality to disguise body fascism. She went to a doctor. 434 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: She refused to get on the scale. The doctor was 435 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: like what, and she was like, don't be a body fascist. 436 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 1: I don't. It's when we get into we swing into 437 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 1: that territory, that's when I say, Okay, that's I'm gonna 438 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 1: go ahead. And I'm fine saying that I, in my opinion, 439 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,199 Speaker 1: that is too far because that you can't get away 440 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: from the relationship between nutrition and diet. And yes, like 441 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: I I think it's also difficult to make a blanket 442 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: statement about whether or not dieting is an appropriate choice 443 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 1: because you know, some people are gonna finger wag and 444 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 1: say like, you're only doing it to serve the male gays, 445 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: not you know, paying attention to the fact that everyone 446 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: has a little bit of a different relationship with food. 447 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: You know, some people are stretched eaters, some people are 448 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 1: emotional eaters, some people are stressed non eaters. I have 449 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: to pay in my experience, I have to pay more 450 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 1: attention to how much I'm eating if I'm stressing and 451 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: freaking out. Okay, so listen, we've been back and forth 452 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 1: about this about is it feminist to go on a diet? 453 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: Is it anti feminist to go on a diet? Is 454 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: this even a question we're asking or should we? As 455 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: Caroline said, just eat a sandwich. You just so much 456 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: to leave me alone. Well, as feminist writer and activist 457 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: Audrey Lord said, caring for myself is not a self indulgence. 458 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 1: It is self preservation, and that is an act of 459 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: political warfare. And I think Caroline may I speak for 460 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: the both of us and say that is where we 461 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: stand on this issue of dieting. I I want to 462 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: take care of myself, and I think you want to 463 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: take care of yourself. And you know what, I mean, 464 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: what's right for yourself. Be healthy, be happy, don't worry, 465 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: be happy, right, right, it's not where it's I think 466 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: you can say to that that dieting is not inherent 467 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: advocating um inherently advocating for a thinness ideal either. It's 468 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: more trying to look at it from a health perspective. 469 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: And maybe it's just also a call. It's just change 470 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: our collective definition of diet. Yeah, that's what we you know, 471 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: we're always on a diet. But yeah, and I don't 472 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: understand why the opposite of diet and thin privilege and 473 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: the idea of the ideal thin body, why does the 474 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: opposite of that have to be I'm gonna eat whatever 475 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: the whatever I want and not let anyone weigh me 476 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: and not weigh myself and not be conscious of what 477 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: I'm putting in my body? Like, isn't there a happy 478 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: middle ground? I think I definitely think so. So Yeah, 479 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: that's my confused two sense. Yeah, thank you, Tracy. It 480 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: pops up or asking us complicated question. But now it 481 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: is time to turn it over to our listeners because 482 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: I have a feeling that considering the vast number of 483 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: women who go on diets, there was also I didn't 484 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: throw the statistic out, but there was a survey. Granted 485 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: it was published by or commissioned by the Laughing Cow 486 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: Cheese Company, but it was reported on in the Telegraph 487 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: saying that the average woman will diet for thirty one 488 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: years of her life. And with that, that's that's who. 489 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: That's really a lot um. But for folks out there 490 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: who have grappled with this aspect of dieting, specifically for 491 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: weight loss, want to hear from you, let us know 492 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: your thoughts. Mom stuff at discovery dot com is where 493 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: you can send them, and of course you can also 494 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: head over to our Facebook and start a conversation over there. 495 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: And before we get to a couple of listening listener 496 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: letters that we have, we've got a quick message from 497 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: our sponsor, and this episode of Stuff Mom Never Told 498 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: You is brought to you by our sponsor, Audible. If 499 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: you head over right now to audible podcast dot com 500 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: slash stuff Mom. That's right, that's Audible podcast dot com 501 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: slash stuff Mom, you get a free download, a free 502 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: download of what you ask well. Audible is an incredible 503 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: online library of a million bijillion titles that you should 504 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,959 Speaker 1: check out. And we do have a recommendation for you 505 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: by author Jessica Valenti. Her book Why Have Kids A 506 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: New Mom explores the truth about parenting and happiness. So 507 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: go over to audible podcast dot com slash stuff Mom 508 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: and check out all of the great books they have 509 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: to offer. And now back to our letters. I've got 510 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: one to kick things off from Jessica, and this is 511 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: in response to our episode a while ago on women 512 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: and NFL football. She writes, I've been a huge football 513 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: fan for most of my life, since I come from 514 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: a family of rabid New Orleans Saints fans Hohoda, and 515 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: I recently started my own small blog and Twitter account 516 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: to channel my obsession. At first, I was really excited 517 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: to find out that there were a number of other 518 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: female NFL bloggers out there, but with somewhat disappointed to 519 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: learn that most sites tend to emphasize the stereotypically gendered 520 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: topics of fashion, party planning, and off the field celebrity 521 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: aspects of football and players far more than the game itself. 522 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,239 Speaker 1: On the one hand, I'm excited to see a game 523 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: I'm passionate about take hold with a growing audience of women, 524 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: including many of my own friends. But I also feel 525 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: like the pageantry that surrounds this kind of marketing signals 526 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: that women still need a safely gendered entry point into 527 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: football fandom. Of course, can you really blame them when 528 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: you look at how the NFL mainstream media operates in broadcasting, 529 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: female reporters are always relegated to the sideline scaring games 530 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: to talk about the personal interest side of the story, 531 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: injuries and coach players sound bites, while men always call 532 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: and analyze the actual game itself. I don't know that 533 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: I could even count on one hand the number of 534 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: women who write about football regularly from mainstream websites like 535 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: NFL dot com, dead Spin, and bleacher Report. For me 536 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: outside looking in, I'd say it's still incredibly tough for 537 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: smart women who know their football to break through this 538 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: arena without assuming sanctioned roles from the sidelines of a tailgate. Still, 539 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: I'm hopeful that the growing NFL female fan base produces 540 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: a ton of knowledgeable die hards in the long run. 541 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: Baby teas or not uh And you can visit Jessica's 542 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: NFL blog at Lady Blitz Football dot blog spot dot com. 543 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: And here's an email from Tracy about our child Caregiver's podcast, 544 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: she wanted to share her own personal experience with the issue. 545 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: She said that my brother and two sisters took care 546 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,959 Speaker 1: of my mother. She suffered from heart and kidney disease 547 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: brought on by lupus. My parents divorced shortly before her 548 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: health declined and our father disappeared. My mother pulled myself 549 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: and my younger brother out of school at the ages 550 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: of twelve and thirteen to take care of her. My 551 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: sisters were just old enough to work full time, and 552 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: they paid for all the bills, working long hours to 553 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,239 Speaker 1: do so. They would help out around the house as 554 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: best they could when they were off work. My brother 555 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: and I administered her medications, including giving her home dialysis, 556 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: cleaned her bedside, commode, bathed her, cooked and cleaned, and 557 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 1: took care of my sister's autistic son while she was 558 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: at work. We took care of her until her death 559 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: in two thousand one, when I was twenty three. It 560 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: was extremely difficult for all four of us. Thankfully we 561 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: had each other to lean on, and we're all still 562 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: very close. Despite the tremendous responsibilities we faced. With our 563 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 1: sister's support, my brother and I got our g e 564 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,760 Speaker 1: d s and went to college. Thank you for doing 565 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 1: this podcast. I hope that with the support groups out there, 566 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,359 Speaker 1: young caregivers have somewhere to turn for assistance. So thank you, Tracy, 567 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: and thanks to everyone who's written in to mom Stuff 568 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: at discovery dot com. And like I said, you can 569 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: head of her face to our Facebook page, like us 570 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: and start a conversation over there, and follow us on 571 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: Twitter as well. You can tweet us at mom Stuff 572 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: Podcast and you can also follow us on Tumbler. It's 573 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 1: stuff Mo've Never told you dot tumbler dot com. And 574 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: if you would like to learn more about healthy eating, 575 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: there are lots of articles about it at our website, 576 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:13,319 Speaker 1: it's how stuff works dot com. For more on thiss 577 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff works dot 578 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: com