WEBVTT - Limbo | 6 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:05.040 Hey listeners Jessica here. Be sure to check out new 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:09.680 episodes of Undetermined every Tuesday for free wherever you get 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:13.520 your podcasts. For early and ad free listening, check out 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:20.720 Tenderfoot plus on Apple Podcasts. The views and opinions expressed 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:24.680 in this podcast are solely those of the individuals interviewed 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:28.280 and participating in the show, and do not represent those 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:33.360 of Tenderfoot TV and Resonate recordings. All individuals described or 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:37.160 mentioned in the podcast should be considered innocent until found 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:41.320 guilty in a court of law. This podcast contains subject 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:45.239 matter such as violence and graphic descriptions, which may not 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:49.720 be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:56.800 It felt like there was no real investigation at all, 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:02.760 regardless of any and all information that Audra and Mandy 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:06.759 have shared with them. It just went nowhere. I feel 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:10.280 like most detectives in that situation would use a lot 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:15.880 less to do more. Even reading the autopsy report, it 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:19.920 kind of paints its own picture. It really does. I'll 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:23.399 put it this way. If it seemed like some sort 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:29.280 of foul play to three amateurs, I can only imagine. 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:30.800 How it would look to someone who does this every 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:41.080 single day. 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.960 My team and I have been actively investigating Jessica's case 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:08.000 for over two years now. In all of my conversations 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:13.240 with Jessica's family, something they've made abundantly clear is their 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:17.480 lack of faith in the INNOPD. Their biggest fear in 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:21.640 all of this isn't that answers surrounding Jessica's death can't 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:24.760 be found. It's that the INNOPD won't put in the 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:28.880 work to find them. They've had a strong feeling that 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:33.080 this case has been headed nowhere for some time now. 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:37.120 But despite the family's frustration with what they feel is 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:41.840 a stalled INOPD investigation, we've still learned a lot thus far. 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.080 We've heard the body cam footage of police talking with 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:50.480 Justin the day Jessica went missing. We've shared loads of 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:55.519 text messages and correspondence between Justin and those close to Jessica. 0:02:56.280 --> 0:03:00.000 We've gone over all the reports we've obtained from the INNOPDA, 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:04.680 the coroner's office, and the family, discovering that a toxicology 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:08.680 screening found meth in Jessica's system, and then an autopsy 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:15.000 report indicated both pre and post mortem injuries to her body. Then, 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:19.040 in February twenty twenty one, the coroner released the following 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:21.239 statement regarding Jessica's death. 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:26.440 Advanced changes of decomposition can make determination of cause and 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:29.120 manner of death difficult, as it did in this case. 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:34.120 Due to this decomposition, toxicology testing was limited to liver tissue, 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:39.600 which did test positive for methamphetamine and bupropion. However, it 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:42.760 is unclear these results reflect recent intake, and a drug 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:44.680 related death cannot be ruled out. 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.880 The coroner, of course listed Jessica's cause and manner of 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:55.680 death as undetermined. Her husband, Justin believes she died by suicide, 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.360 and we have a good idea where her family and 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:02.680 friends stand. Like I said, we've learned a lot up 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:05.720 to this point, but there are still some key elements 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:10.240 we don't know. Where does the case currently stand, who's 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:14.880 investigating it, and where does the investigation go from here. 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:20.960 When re examining a case like Jessica's, requesting access to 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:23.680 the case file is one of the first steps in 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:27.720 the investigative process, and we've put in our fair share 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:32.400 of requests, But the NPD only granted us access to 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:36.320 the initial missing person's report and the report filed when 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:39.520 she was found. All other items in the case file 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:43.839 were denied, citing that it was an open case. Quote 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:50.400 they relate to pending or reasonable anticipated criminal litigation. If 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:54.400 we're going to obtain any more case related information as 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.480 to why Jessica's case has stalled, it won't be from 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:01.839 the files. We'll have to start asking around in New Orleans. 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:06.520 Back in May twenty twenty one, Todd and I decided 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:08.400 to start at the best place we could think of, 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:12.839 the New Orleans Corner's Office also known as the Orleans 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:17.880 Parish Corner, to see what information we could get from them. 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.960 This is the same Corner's office who performed Jessica's autopsy. 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:25.320 We're hoping to find out more answers about what they 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:29.320 learned and gain a better understanding of where a case 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:35.600 like Jessica goes. Once the Corner's process is complete, we 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:38.440 park in the visitor lot of a large tan brick 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:44.760 building positioned beside a busy road. As traffic steadily passes by, 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:47.560 we make our way up to an entrance with double 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:52.440 glass doors. The doors are locked, but there's an intercom 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:57.000 call box to my right. I push the button, no answer. 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:00.080 I try a few more times. 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:00.440 Nothing. 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.120 We call in after hours number listed on the door, 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:05.760 and a woman. 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:10.159 Answers, hi' is your office open? 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:12.599 What would. 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:20.440 We're here to adquire about the past case? The name 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:25.720 Jessica Derney, Do you are n I n G? 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:28.400 All right, hold on it. 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:29.240 At the moment. 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:34.240 We're actually out front, we didn't know like if we 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:35.960 could come in to speak with someone or not. 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.279 I would have to find out who the or prevent 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:46.800 the on the investigator. They're not there. 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:50.360 We're actually just trying to see if the corner's office 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:54.720 and the investigator is still looking at it, or if 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:57.240 it's been kind of closed with the corner's office and 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:58.839 moved onto the police department. 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:05.400 Yes, once the Ausosius the report has been completed, the 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:09.559 corner's office is complete with their investigation. We only handle 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:12.240 the remain so it would be on to the police at. 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.880 This time, okay, perfect Is. 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:18.440 There a way to see if it was turned over 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.960 to the homicide unit or district detectives? 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:25.920 That would be a question for the police department. 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:29.720 Is there an investigator on duty that can just explain 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:32.960 that process to us, just so that we have it 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.360 recorded as this is how it this is how it happens, 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:37.200 and it's how it goes. 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:41.960 What actually happened is once the case is closed, and 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.840 if there is an office that's handling that case who 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:47.840 reported the debt, they would most times check back with 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:50.520 the coroner's office to see when that autopsy report is 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:51.880 available for requests. 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:53.480 It will come in to collect it, and. 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:57.160 Then they themselves would move forward with either going further 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.840 into investigating it or closing the case on their okay, 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:03.280 will be for the police department. 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:06.800 Okay, So at this point the coroner's duties with it 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:08.280 are completely over. 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:10.160 All. 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:10.440 Right. 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.920 And if a case is left like cause of death undetermined, 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:16.880 and then the police get new information they think would 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.080 change that, do they then come back to your office 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:24.000 through an investigator or directly directly to an MD to 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:26.080 right to Yep. 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.840 It would be to the pathologist or probably the chief pathologist. 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:30.360 Ye. 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:33.720 Most times it deals with the pathologist that performed that ortopy. 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.480 Okay, all right, thank you so much. 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:38.000 I really appreciate it. 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.880 You're welcome, Thanks, goodbye. 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:44.960 While we didn't get all of our questions answered, it's 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:49.280 a start. We now know officially that the coroner's office 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:53.920 is no longer investigating Jessica's case, at least until the 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:57.240 police give them more information or evidence to work with. 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:02.000 So on that note, headed over to the ENOPDS District 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:05.440 three to see what they could tell us about their investigation. 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.600 Parking in the back of the large police campus, we 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:14.400 walk over to the side visitors door. While dodging the rain, 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:19.599 we press the button for the intercom. 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:23.160 I'd be right. 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:26.439 Okay, we're standing under a metal awning that's shielding us 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:29.959 from the persistent rain drops. 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.760 Hut out one of our property grown charges. 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:35.400 Great, okay, great, So what's score? A second kind of 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:36.559 guide you off to the right spot? 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:41.719 Okay, so we're after a brief wait, A towering man 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:45.800 in uniform push us through the double doors and greets us. 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:51.199 This is our conversation with Lieutenant Ernest Luster, who heads 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:56.199 up the n opd's third District Investigative Division or DIU. 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:01.160 This audio is from bodycam footage we received via public 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:02.000 records or quest. 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:06.320 Hello, Mom, you all turned Lustlon and Lawrence police h John, 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:09.320 All right, I mean how can we help you? 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:14.520 Okay? So her name is Jessica Noel and he is 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:15.680 a retired detective. 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:18.920 I am an investigative journalist. We're working on a story 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:23.760 about a case. Jessica ply darning. Okay, and we were 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:26.840 told that you might be the head of the unit 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:27.839 that is looking at that. 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:29.960 What we're interested in. 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:36.199 If we're not familiar with New Orleans Investigations Police department, 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:39.880 we want to kind of show how. 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:43.160 It goes from the scene of where her. 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:46.400 Body was found to the corner to the police and 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:49.000 where that goes to investigations. 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:52.720 Yeah, the process and procedure of that all right, So. 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:57.199 How that works is so that's a determin about a 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:01.400 coroner's office. Right, So for example, when a body is found, 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:05.360 if if there's no determinate cause of how that person 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:09.080 may have died, we have to get that disposition from 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:12.800 the coroner's office. That makes the determination of where the 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:15.800 case is a signed. So if the case is if 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:19.040 the coroner classifies the case as a homicide, whether they 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:23.240 were killed by UH, whether it was Laful's trauma, whether 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:27.520 it was a shooting, UH, whether they were UH Stramolder, whatever, 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.959 whatever disposition at the coroner gives to us, then that 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.640 makes the determination as to where the case goes. So 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:36.280 if it's a homicide, and then the case will be 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:41.239 assigned to the Homicide's vision to do a follow up investigation. 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:46.280 If the case is unclassified, which is where this case 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:49.880 is now, then we have to wait for the coroners 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:53.880 to tell us what led to this person's demands or 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:58.840 that if it was drug overdose, natural causes, health related, 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:02.440 and the case stays with us until we get that 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:07.320 disposition from the corla. Right now, her case is with 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:11.920 us because the coroner hasn't given us any information to 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:16.000 determine a cause of death all At this point, all 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:18.840 they've told us is that she's had some form of 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:22.400 narcotic in her as system, but they haven't given classified 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:26.120 the case as to how she does. So until he 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:29.320 gives us that the case is in right now is 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:32.959 left in limbo until we can till we can move forward, okay, 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:36.160 because we can't move without that forensic evidence right. 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:39.040 Because signed into a homicide detective if it's not yet 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.160 cusipited as a homicide correct. 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:45.880 Because we never yet detectives that are assigned to the 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:50.880 district like this third district. We work all robberies. We 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:57.679 work shootings where a person didn't die. We investigate activated assaults, 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:03.200 simple robberies, deaths, caught depths, arm robbers, and so forth. 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.360 Any type of homicide goes directly to the homicide division, 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.160 whether it be a drug overdose and the person was 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:15.280 poison whether they was shot, stabbed, however the demise happened 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.800 by the hands of someone else, that goes to the 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:21.480 homicide vision. In this sent to l When it's given 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:24.000 to us, we have to wait until we hear from 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:26.760 the coroner's office. If they say, hey, look we found 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.440 out this is this is how it occurred, then we 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.120 can talk to homicide and then say hey, look we 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:36.800 have the final disposition from the coroner, and this case 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.080 is given to you all to do investigations. 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.200 Just a quick pause here to remind you that a 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:47.160 homicide detective was on the scene when Jessica's body was found, 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:51.120 but since then her case has moved off the Homicide 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:57.440 Investigation Division's workload because of the undetermined classification from the coroner. 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:00.559 This homicide usually respond to most of you that scenes 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:04.640 because it's theirs until you decide it's not most. 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:09.040 It depends on the scene itself. It depends on the scene, 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:13.640 all right, Yeah, if it's something that appears to be 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:17.480 floul play, then they're gonna show up. If it's something 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:20.080 where let's say you got to and I'm just using 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:23.400 this as an example. Let's say as an elderly person 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:28.440 who was in a hospice environment and they had a 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:32.680 number of medical issues and they were found unresponsive in 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:34.360 their bed, and they're not gonna show up for that 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:38.480 because most likely that may be helped related. However, if 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.280 it's something if the officer gets out on the scene 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:42.720 and you said, well, hold loop, this doesn't look look 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:45.000 like it was the sounds of a struggle and this 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:49.560 person appears to be in an unconventional position, then homicide 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:51.320 is gonna come out and make that scene because there 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.520 may be more to it than what what would occur there. 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:58.040 When your cause and manner of death it's undetermined for. 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:02.840 The coroner's office, and it drops from homicide standards and 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:07.400 announces the IU, it's it's it's considered unclassified. 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:12.520 So an unclassified debt leads us in limbo because we're 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:16.480 not allowed to make any movements regarding the case because 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:20.920 we don't have a determinate cause of debt. 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:24.040 So no one here would be like trying to go 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.840 out and find more information to fill in holes in what. 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:32.160 Happens because it's it's a forensics case. Whereas now the 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:36.680 detectives have interviewed, they have interviewed miss Mister Dernott be 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:39.760 elected not to be interviewed anymore without an attorney. They've 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:43.440 interviewed the family, They've given information to the family regarding 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:47.080 this case. However, we're in we're in a limbo phase 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:49.920 until the coroner says, Hey, this is how she died, 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:53.200 this is what this is what necessarily need to be taken. 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:58.480 Luster keeps using the word limbo to describe the status 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:02.160 of this case. To you'd hear a case is either 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:06.800 open or closed, but to Luster, it sounds like Jessica's 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:10.920 case is falling somewhere in the middle. Regardless, He's made 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.440 it clear that they're waiting on the corner to give 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:15.880 a more definitive cause and manner of death. 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:16.960 But if you. 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:20.320 Remember, the coroner's office told us basically the same thing, 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:24.120 that they're waiting on the NPD for more information. So 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:24.800 which is it. 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.320 So I will say, we spent to the corner's office, 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:32.520 I mean to be blunt, and they put it on 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:35.560 the police department. They said, our investigation is done with this. 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:37.960 They need to come to us with more evidence to 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:39.680 change the cause or manner. 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:45.200 Yeah, but we we have nothing further to go with, right, yeah, yeah, 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:47.120 you see what I'm saying. So what kind of stuff too, 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.720 because we don't have any more information that we can 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.080 provide unless the family can say, hey, this is what 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:56.520 else we have? Yeah, and we take that information and 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:58.720 then we bring it to the call and say, hey, look, 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:00.840 if this is what they found, what can you tell us? 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:03.640 So if you had the right tip or lead to 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:04.680 come in, if we. 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:09.320 Had exactly and that's what all cases. Never we would 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:12.880 always pacific anytime we would sive crime stoppers tips, anytime 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:16.240 we see phone calls that will give us a solid lead, 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:18.920 because we want to solve the case. We want the 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:21.760 noise beliefs wants to solve the case. We want to 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:24.640 give the family justice. If there's some some some foul 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.840 play here, we want to see these people. We want 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:30.919 to see people who are victims of crime, uh, you know, 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:35.040 bring closure to whatever case that they're victims of. Or 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:38.159 if the families have some questions, we want those questions 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:40.639 as so we would never ignore that kind of stuff 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:43.280 you find. 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:47.160 With overdoses, for instance, or when when drug levels are 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:50.719 found in the body and you do have a period 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.520 of time before the body's found several days a week 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:56.800 or so, that it's hard to determine at the coroner's 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.159 office or to a medical examiner if it was an 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:01.360 overdose or not be does the levels reduced? 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:06.960 Honestly, I couldn't answer that. Yeah, that's something that they 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:11.560 would have to give me forensically, because we you know, 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:14.879 our job as an investigator is to let them tell us. Listen, 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:18.119 do you believe that this person was We've had cases 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:22.720 where people were given drugs and od and we charged 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:26.359 the person who gave out the drugs based on the 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:30.320 level of evidence we had in the interviews, based on 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:32.679 the statements that were made. Person say yeah, we were 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.119 out parting and I handed her it is right, and 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:38.959 she took it and she got They got charged for negligence, 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:42.920 all right. In this case, we don't have that. We've 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.320 we had a bout the reported found. We hope that 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.240 the coroner would give us something to bring clarity to 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:52.960 that case so that way we can effectively investigate it 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:54.920 without any obstacles in our way. 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:59.520 As we continue speaking with Luster, he doubles back to 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:04.280 the idea of a potential drug overdose. He says, for example, 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:08.000 if we knew how Jessica got the drugs or if 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:12.000 she willingly took them, maybe we'd have a different story here. 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:15.840 But we don't know. All we know in Jessica's case 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.480 is that she had drugs in her system. And Lester says, 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.560 that doesn't help as far as an investigation goes. 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:27.720 Until they give us clarity and say, hey, this person's 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:30.360 killed or this person died as a zonner or overdose, 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:31.920 we're we're pretty much. 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:34.679 Left in the level right and would you consider it 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:35.720 a pole case? 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.080 I mean right now until we can get more evidence 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:43.159 to prove otherwise I would have classified as that now 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.960 because we cannot. We can't of course create evidence. We 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:51.920 have to get something solid that we can corroborate to 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:57.159 give us. You know problem cause any status cases? Is 0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:59.720 that part of your job? No? Well my part? My 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:03.840 my job is I I supervised the supervisor, okay, who 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:06.960 give classification to the case. So this case is not 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:08.560 considered code is just still open it. 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.360 Well, is there a greed of time if no new 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:14.800 leads or information come in where a case like this 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:18.440 would be reclassified from open to closed. 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:21.080 It would never be closed, so it could be open 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:25.080 in our country a murder is open until we saw 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:27.320 that even if it happens, if we find out something 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:30.080 two hundred years from now, if we get evidence and 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:33.400 we've had cold cases of fact. There was a cold 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:36.720 case that that just recently got open in another parish 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:39.199 where they found out a guy from DNA evidence from 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:41.960 nineteen ninety eight that stabbed the leading and they arrested 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:44.760 him because they had the DNA evidence to prove wise, 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:46.680 but it was a twenty year old case, but he 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:49.200 was charged with burth. So as as far as I'm 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:51.880 returned and as far as our department is concerned, those 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:53.480 cases stay open until we solved. 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:59.600 So you won tips to come in, Yes, from anywhere? 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.880 Information? Yes, oh yes, indeed that's how most of our 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:08.399 crimes and no matter what they are, the community is 0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:10.560 a big part of the family is a big part 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:15.160 the acquaintances that the France. Whatever information they can provide 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:18.359 for us, we'll we take that information so that we 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:22.359 can use it and try to develop a lief. Yes, 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:26.160 it really does. And trust me, Law's police is passionate 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:31.960 about bringing families justice and bringing cases of giving families closure. 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:33.080 In all cases. 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.760 We had hoped to find out who is investigating Jessica's case. 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:44.080 But the disturbing answer we found was no one is. 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:48.119 If what the lieutenant is telling us is in fact 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:51.639 n OPD procedure, then the n OPD is waiting on 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:55.560 the corner to classify it as a homicide in order 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.800 to investigate it as such. But at the same time, 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.080 the corner is waiting on the UPD to give them 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:06.120 more evidence to change the manner of death, leaving it 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:20.760 just as he states in limbo. In the law enforcement 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:26.520 and medical world, there's an acronym that perfectly describes Justic's case, CuPy, 0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:33.720 which stands for Circumstances undetermined pending police investigation. So what 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:37.359 happens when two investigative agencies in charge of the case 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:42.560 both claim they are waiting on the other to move forward. Well, 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:46.520 as Todd and I have learned, nothing happens, which is 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:51.479 why Jessica's case has been in a perpetual stalemate. Justica's 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:56.200 case isn't officially classified as cold yet, but without tips 0:22:56.240 --> 0:23:00.399 and leads, it is growing colder by the minute. To 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:06.879 the NPD, it's considered unclassified. To the coroner, it's considered undetermined. 0:23:07.760 --> 0:23:11.280 But some see it as an opportunity for a second look. 0:23:12.560 --> 0:23:16.199 Doctor Kimberly Masnik, who you may remember from our analysis 0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:19.879 of Jessica's autopsy, is the director and founder of a 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:24.880 cold Case investigations institute in Florida. She tells me they 0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:27.480 work hand in hand with the detectives on each of 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:30.159 those cases, and she was able to give us some 0:23:30.200 --> 0:23:33.560 perspective on what would need to happen in order for 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:37.320 this case to move forward undetermined. 0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:39.920 It's kind of I want to call it a placeholder. 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:43.480 I like that it's there because it gives us the 0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:47.719 opportunity to pull Jessica off the shelf and look at 0:23:47.720 --> 0:23:50.920 this case again, because in forty years, who knows what's 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:54.840 going to change in science. If that said anything other 0:23:54.920 --> 0:23:58.879 than that, that case would be closed, and then I 0:23:58.920 --> 0:24:01.920 wouldn't have the op opportunity to be able to pull 0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:05.840 it off the shelf ten twenty thirty years from now. So, 0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:10.960 having watched many interviews with her sister, that sister's not 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:15.320 going away. As long as it says undetermined, we can 0:24:15.400 --> 0:24:17.159 keep it on the shelf and we can work it. 0:24:17.480 --> 0:24:19.280 We can pull it off and dust it off and 0:24:19.359 --> 0:24:21.359 call it not cold at any point in time. 0:24:22.600 --> 0:24:26.600 Basically, if there's one good thing about an undetermined classification, 0:24:27.440 --> 0:24:29.399 it's that it does leave the door open for the 0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:33.400 case to be worked and possibly even solved. But how 0:24:33.400 --> 0:24:37.760 do you make a change in classification happen. Doctor Masnik says, 0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:41.480 for starters, the NPD should be working in tandem with 0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:42.120 the corner. 0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:47.560 If you don't ask the corner to specifically test for something, 0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:52.560 that test does not get done because that corner or 0:24:52.600 --> 0:24:57.040 that medical examiner is relying on you, the officer, to 0:24:57.240 --> 0:25:02.760 give them as much infor as possible so that they 0:25:02.840 --> 0:25:04.960 know how to do their job to the best of 0:25:05.000 --> 0:25:10.240