1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: Hi guys, Nancy Grace. Here, at a time when we 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: are all pulling together to fight coronavirus COVID nineteen, I 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: have something for you and all free E chapter on 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: coronavirus crimes and how to fight them. Don't be a 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: coronavirus crime victim. From door to door sales of fake 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: cures and tests vaccines that's not real, to robocalls that 7 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: are trying to scam you, to fake ads, to fishing 8 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: you online, to fake cures that are being sold on 9 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: the internet and on infomercials. Right now, you've got to 10 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: arm yourself against these crimes. Please download our free E 11 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: chapter Coronavirus Crimes. Don't be a victim. Go to crime 12 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: online dot com. You'll see it there in the link 13 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: and downloaded for free. Arm yourself against criminals and scam artists, 14 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: cons that will not only take advantage of you, but 15 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: take advantage of you, your parents, your grandparents, and people 16 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: you love. At a time when we are all fighting 17 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: the virus. I hope you go to crime online dot 18 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: com and download this. It's been highly researched and presented 19 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: for you for free. Goodbye, friend, keep the faith. How 20 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: does a young guy jogging through a residential neighborhood end 21 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: up being pursued and gunned down debt or is that 22 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: what happened? I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank 23 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: you for being with us. Climb Stories with Nancy Grace. 24 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: Let's kick it off. Take a listen to this operators 25 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: breaks out here. There's a guy in the house right 26 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: and rail's house under constructions. Okay, do you do you 27 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 1: have your address or the other a house of address? Uh? 28 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: Right at two nineteen or two twenty. And he said, 29 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: someone them breaking into it right now. No, it's it's 30 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: all open. It's under constructions. And he's running right now, 31 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 1: Verry Goods right now. Okay, what is he doing? He's 32 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:46,839 Speaker 1: running down the street. Okay, exactly, Okay, that's fine. I'll 33 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 1: get them out there. I just need to know what 34 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: he was doing wrong? Was he just on the premisesn't 35 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: not supposed to be the week and stuff on it 36 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: and you've been caught on them. Were a bunch before night? 37 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,679 Speaker 1: Kind of an arguable thing out here. The man is 38 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: fielding the house of Jeff D do finishing. Okay, that's fine, 39 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: white T shirt, black guy, white sur and he's done. 40 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:23,799 Speaker 1: Black rounds done, run back ridd Okay, what happened? Was 41 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: the guy breaking into a home? Was he just jogging again? 42 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. This is a case 43 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: that is tearing a part of community estate and taking 44 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: the center stage in national news. Joining me an all 45 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: star panel to break it down and put it back 46 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: together again. Kirk Nurmi, former trial lawyer for convicted killer 47 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: Jody Arius and author of Trapped with miss Arius on Amazon. 48 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: Renowned psychiatrists joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, doctor 49 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: Angela Arnold, and boy do we need his drink? Jeff Cortesi, 50 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: former special Agent FBI. Doctor Katherine Maloney, Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, 51 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: Erie County Medical Examiner's Office in Buffalo. But first to 52 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Levi Page. Now, this 53 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: happened in the small town of Brunswick, Georgia. Residential area. Brunswick, 54 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: compared to other big cities like La New York Atlanta, 55 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: is small, but there's a good bit of business there. 56 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: It's near the Georgia coast. This was a really nice 57 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: residential community. There was construction going on in the community 58 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: and I want to understand there are two sides to 59 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: this story. One side is that the guy gunned down, 60 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 1: Ahmad Aarbury, was breaking into a home under construction. So 61 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: was it just a dig site? How advanced was construction? 62 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: Did he just walk around looking to see what was happening? 63 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: Is he the person that has been spotted in the 64 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: past caught on camera breaking into residential homes where people 65 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: are at home, where people live there, or was he 66 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: just jogging in the neighborhood and gets gunned down or 67 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: is it somewhere in between. Straight out to Levi Page, 68 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: crim online dot Com investigative reporter, I hear the nine 69 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: one one call that was before the shooting. What do 70 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: you know now, Levi Page? What do we know about 71 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: the construction site itself? Well, we know that this was 72 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: a home in the Sentilla Shores neighborhood of Brunswick, Georgia. 73 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: It's February twenty third in the afternoon, and there's this 74 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: home that's under construction that they say the homeowner couldn't 75 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: finish construction, so it was just kind of sitting there 76 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 1: and Ahmad Rberry, he's twenty five years old, and he's 77 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, wait wait right there, So the 78 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: homeowner could not finish it. So it was See when 79 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: you first hear under construction, you think that there are 80 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 1: people out there working on and the hammering and saghing. 81 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: But this sounds more alike a home that was under construction, 82 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 1: that everything had halted. Correct. Okay, let me rephrase my question, 83 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 1: Leavi b Page. Was it just the bare bones? Was 84 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: at a home that was being remodeled? I mean, were 85 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 1: there walls? Was there a ceiling? What do we know 86 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: about the scene. I don't think it was. It was 87 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: basically bare bones. It was not a fully developed home. 88 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: I'm just wondering if there were walls to it. Jackie's 89 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: sleeping pull up another image. Okay, guys, before we go 90 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: any further, take a listen to more of that nine 91 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: one one call. Let's see what we can learns emergency. 92 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: I'm not here till shorts as a black male run down? 93 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: Where we're at Satilla's Shores. I don't know what three 94 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: world stop radic Sir, Hello, sir, sir, where are you at? Hello? Hello? 95 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: Okay there. You hear the caller to nine one one 96 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: say we're in Satilla's Shores. You hear there's a black 97 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: male running down the street. Doesn't know exact address, and 98 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: you can hear him calling out stop right there, Hold 99 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: on just a moment. To Kirk nermy former lawyer for 100 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: Jody Arius and author. We've all seen Andy Mayberry right 101 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: where people are always making citizens arrests, But how often 102 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: does that really happen if there is a burglary. Let's 103 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: just say there's a burglary and the burglar starts running 104 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: Kurt Nrmy, it's my understanding that for a burglary, cops 105 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: are not to shoot the person, clarify citizens, arrest, and 106 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: deadly force Kurt Nancy. This isn't maybe a rfd B 107 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: far This is a kind of execution that really stains 108 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: the soul of the nation. These men. We don't even 109 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: know that there's a burglary. I hate to even presuppose 110 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: that from what Levi has told us and everything I've heard. 111 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: That's why I said, let's assume what we're hearing on 112 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 1: the NIMA one call is correct. This person was in 113 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: a home construction site. I mean, if there are not walls, 114 00:08:55,720 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: there's I don't know that that would be considered entering. 115 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 1: Let's just assume he was on the side and then 116 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: he leaves. But even if it is a burglary, even 117 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: if you're right there. I don't believe even police are 118 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:17,839 Speaker 1: justified in using deadly force shooting somebody for a burglary. No, 119 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 1: not at all, Not at all, even if they are 120 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: running away, as was the case of this jogger, This 121 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: was not any kind of action that the police would 122 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: be justified in taking. So this claim of citizens arrest 123 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: is certainly lost on me as it comes to the 124 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: shooting of this man. Who's jumping in Who isn't This 125 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: is Levin. I just want to point out said according 126 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: to the Brunswick News, Nancy that he was one of 127 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: the person that called ninety one, the person that lived 128 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: in the area said that he was walking inside an 129 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: open home that was under construction for some time. So 130 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: open home because um, okay, he's told him a signed 131 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: it was a shell. I've got to tell you wrong 132 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: or right. When I was growing up in a very 133 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: rural area and somebody would finally start building a home, 134 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: we would walk in and look around at the construction 135 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: site and go, wow, this is gonna be pretty. I 136 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: bet this is the bedroom and this is the bathroom. 137 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: I don't know that that's considered a burglary. I actually 138 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,439 Speaker 1: think technically it would be. But even if that's true, 139 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: police themselves are not justified under the law and gunning 140 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: somebody down that's running away from a non violent crime 141 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about 142 00:10:55,880 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: a case that is tearing not only a community date 143 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: but a country apart. Ahmad Arbory, just twenty five years old, 144 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: gunned down by two people that say they see him 145 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: inappropriately illegally on a construction site and the guy takes 146 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: off running. They also tell nine on one, hey, he 147 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: this guy has been spotted on video before breaking in. 148 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: Is that true? Don't know. But even if it was, 149 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: not saying it is. But even if it was, do 150 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: is that justified deadly force a citizen's arrest? Take a 151 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: listen to this. Gregory McMichael and his neighbors in Satilla's 152 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,959 Speaker 1: Shores in Brunswick, Georgia have seen a number of homes 153 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: under construction robbed recently. One of those homes has surveillance 154 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: cameras and a man has been recorded prowling the properties 155 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: late at night. It's a situation that McMichael has experience with. 156 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: He has an extensive law enforcement background as an investigator 157 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: from multiple agencies in the area. When he sees an 158 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: unknown man on one of the properties on a Sunday 159 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,199 Speaker 1: afternoon when no construction is taking place, he calls nine 160 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: one one to report what he believes could be a robbery. 161 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: When the person he suspects as a burglar takes off running, 162 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: Gregory McMichael, armed with a pistol, tells his thirty four 163 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: year old son Travis, to grab a shotgun. The two 164 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 1: men head out the door, talking to a nine one 165 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: one operator as they try to catch the person he 166 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: believes could be responsible for break ins in their quiet neighborhood. 167 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: You're hearing Dave mac investigative reporter with Crime online dot Com. 168 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: I want to open up what's happening to the panel 169 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: with me, Kurt Narmy, doctor Angela Arnold, Jeff Cortesi, doctor 170 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:50,239 Speaker 1: Katherine Maloney, and Levi Page. Jeff Cortes, a former FBI 171 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:55,199 Speaker 1: special agent, jump in. Jeff, Well, Nia, I'm really just 172 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: not sure what the plan was. You know, as we 173 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: just heard, this was a investigator. He supposed to understand 174 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,839 Speaker 1: how these things work. Even if everything he says about 175 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: Aubrey is true, it was reckless from the from from 176 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: the onset. Reckless is one thing, but there's such a 177 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: thing as reckless homicide. And it may be reckless from 178 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: one point of the view. But let's just say that 179 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,719 Speaker 1: that was his home that was being built, and he 180 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: was wandering around looking at the construction, and then suddenly 181 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,319 Speaker 1: two guys would start with weapons start chasing him. I'd 182 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: run to Now, these two guys probably know Gregory McMichael 183 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: and Travis McMichael, the father and the son probably know 184 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: whose home that is. It's being built, so they know 185 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: that Ahmad Aubrey is not the homeowner. That said it 186 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: still doesn't explain a way of shooting to you leave 187 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,199 Speaker 1: a page pick it up right there. So, Nancy, we 188 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,959 Speaker 1: know that twenty five year old Ahmed Aubrey caught the 189 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: attention of greg McMichael. He worked for decades as an 190 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: investigator for the Brunswick Judicial Circuit District Attorney's office, and 191 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: he was outside his son's home. His son is Travis McMichael, 192 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: and he spotted Ahmed Arbury and he called nine one 193 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: at one o eight pm and he claimed that Arbury 194 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: stopped at the property of a home under construction, like 195 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: we've been talking about. He said he matched the description 196 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: of someone that he'd seen in the neighborhood before who 197 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: put their hands down their pants at gesture that he 198 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: suspected was because he had a gun, and McMichael became suspicious. 199 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: He says, I think this is the person I've seen 200 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: before acting suspicious. So he told his son, come on, 201 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: we're gonna go get him. They got in a truck 202 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: that Travis McMichael, thirty four years old, was driving, and 203 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: his father, Greg McMichael was in the back of the truck. 204 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: In the bed of the truck. They chased him down 205 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: and Travis McMichael got out of the truck, got into 206 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: a fight with twenty four year old Ahmed Rbury and 207 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: shot him and killed him. Guys, take a listen to 208 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: our friends at WTLV w j x X news. This 209 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: is Troy Kless. The Satilla Shoes neighborhood is quiet as 210 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: a mother. I never I never worried about him jogging. 211 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: I was just running because as long as he stayed 212 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: within the streets, I mean, no one's tobogg. I raised 213 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: him as yes ma'am, no ma'am type of guy. Rburry 214 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: went jogging down Satilla Drive around one pm. On Sunday. 215 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: According to a police report, Greg McMichael spotted Rburry running 216 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: down the street and thought he had been going and 217 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: to this home, which at the time did not have 218 00:15:55,320 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: doors or windows. Right now it's all open, it's under 219 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: construction and he's grown it right Okay, what is he doing? 220 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: He's running? Gun McMichael stated. He and his son, Travis 221 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: McMichael got guns and followed Aarbury down the street in 222 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: their truck, eventually stopping him. Travis got out of the 223 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: truck with his gun and got into an altercation with Arbury. 224 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: What were you learning now? Is the case of this 225 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: young man, Ahmad Aubury being shot is headed to a 226 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: Georgia grand jury. I want to go back to what 227 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: we were learning in the neighborhood. Kirk Nurmi, one of 228 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: the aggressors, say that Abury put his hands down his 229 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: pants as if he had a gun. I don't know 230 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: when you're chasing someone under the law, that makes you 231 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: the aggressor. Then when somebody takes out a gun and 232 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: turns it you, that's because you're chasing them. But here 233 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: Arebury was unarmed. We also know that the two jump 234 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: out of the truck and a fist fight starts. They 235 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: have described it as a violent fight. How does that 236 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: change your opinion, Jeff Cortesi or does no? It really 237 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: doesn't have individuals with guns, presumably with no uniform on, 238 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: nothing to identify themselves, who try to stop somebody who 239 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: is running down the street. There are only one of 240 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: a couple possible outcomes, and this, unfortunately, was one that 241 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 1: this former investigator should have anticipated, which should have kept 242 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: him at home. Back to you leave page, what can 243 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,400 Speaker 1: you tell me about a thirty second video that has emerged. Yeah, 244 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: so there's a thirty one second video that was released 245 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: to the Atlanta Journal Constitution and it is someone that 246 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: is driving in a vehicle and they're recording from their 247 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: cell phone presumably, and they are pulling up to the 248 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: scene right before the shooting happens, and we see the 249 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: twenty five year old Ahmed Rburry try to get away 250 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: from the two men that were chasing him, and then 251 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: we see a fight breakout. We hear one gun shot 252 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,959 Speaker 1: that apparently misses the twenty five year old, and then 253 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: another gun shot and he falls over dead. So bottom line, 254 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: the argument that there was a struggle for the gun 255 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 1: and then the gun goes off. Is that what is 256 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: depicted in the video Leavi page Well, it is hard 257 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: to say exactly, Nancy, because this is a person recording 258 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,439 Speaker 1: from their cell phone, and we don't see everything because 259 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: they pull up right before it happens. But we do 260 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: see a struggle, Nancy. We do see twenty five year 261 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: old Abed Rberry in a white T shirt and shorts, 262 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: swinging fists, looks like he's trying to get away, and 263 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: we hear a gunshot and then another gun shot and 264 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 1: then he falls over. Well, to me, when I hear 265 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: you're fighting over the gun means that you're not just 266 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 1: taking punches, that your hand to hand were like wrestling 267 00:19:33,320 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: trying to get the gun away. Time Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys. 268 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: A video has emerged in the shooting death of a 269 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: twenty five year old young men. Claims are he had 270 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: been burglarying a home. Other claims are he was jogging 271 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: in the neighborhood. Whatever that truth is. Chasing someone down 272 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: as a citizen and shooting them for a non violent 273 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: felony is illegal even for a police officer to do, 274 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: much less a citizen. Who's to say that, I can't 275 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 1: say I see Jackie Howard over here, and she starts 276 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: running and that makes me suspicious, so I go shoot 277 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 1: her down. No, absolutely not. A video has emerged, a 278 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 1: thirty six second video. It was at a radio station 279 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: website and has then been taken off the website. Was 280 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 1: apparently taken by a person in a vehicle that pulls 281 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: up behind the pickup truck that was stopped on the road. 282 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: That is the report. The recording has sound, but the 283 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: yelling in the recording is largely you can't understand it. 284 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: What we know is that one man is in the 285 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: bed of the pickup, and I assume that is sixty 286 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: four year old Gregory McMichael. The other is standing near 287 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 1: the driver's side door. A man in a T shirt, 288 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: who we now know to be Ahmad Rbrey, just twenty 289 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: five years old, approaches, goes around the pickup on the 290 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: right side, and just as he's passing the front of 291 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: the vehicle, suddenly a fight breaks out with a man 292 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 1: with a shotgun. A shot goes off, the two disappear. 293 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: The man standing in the back of the truck takes 294 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: out a handgun but doesn't fire. A second shot is 295 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: then heard. As the fighting had been going on offscreen. 296 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: That's what we know right now. Joining me, Doctor Angela Arnold, psychiatrist, Atlanta, 297 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: Doctor Arnold, if you see someone breaking in your home, 298 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: that instills fear, they are the aggressor and people can fire. 299 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: But when you are chasing somebody down the road that 300 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: you think may have burgled somebody else's home and nobody's there, 301 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: it's not even a real home yet, it's a construction site. 302 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: How can that be justified as reasonable fear a serious 303 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: bodily harm? But can't they also, Nancy, they left their 304 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:31,120 Speaker 1: homes that the two men left their house, but garnered 305 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: got their guns before they left their home. Who does 306 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: that in the middle of the day on a Sunday. 307 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,679 Speaker 1: They had been to me, it sounds like they had 308 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: been thinking about this. They were waiting for him, and 309 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: they were so they were so ready to go get 310 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: this guy because they had seen them on the tapes 311 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 1: and all of this other kind of stuff. What did 312 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: the guy steal? Did he even have anything in his hands? 313 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: Like you said, we used to do that all the time. 314 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: We used to go through houses all the time that 315 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 1: we're being built. It was just today and no harm 316 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: intended whatsoever. I want you to take a listen now 317 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: to cbsdu's correspond to omar Villa Franca, my mom is 318 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: belong with us, and he's not with us because two 319 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: men follow him while he was jogging and killed him. 320 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: Amad Aarbury was shot and killed in Brunswick, Georgia. We 321 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: spoke to his mother, Wanda Jones. What do you think 322 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 1: should have already happened to these men and the rest 323 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 1: should have been made already. According to neighbors, there had 324 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: been break ins in the area. Aarbury was allegedly spotted 325 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 1: at a home that was under construction before he began 326 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 1: to run. Nine one one calls came in moments later. 327 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: Right now, No, it's all hope and it's under construction 328 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: and he's running right, Okay, what is he doing? He's 329 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: running down. According to a police report, Gregory McMichael told 330 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: police he saw Aarbury run by and recognized him from 331 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: the break ins. According to the report, McMichael and his 332 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 1: thirty four year old son Travis, grabbed his shotgun and 333 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,880 Speaker 1: a pistol and got into their truck to go after 334 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: Aubrey too. Doctor Catherine Maloney, Deputy Chief Medical exam in 335 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: our Erie County Medical Examiner's Office, Buffalo, New York. What 336 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: do we know about twenty five year old Ahmad Aubrey's injuries? 337 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: What looks like he suffered a close range shotgun wound 338 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 1: to his abdomen, So that would have resulted in probably 339 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: rapid and severe blood loss where he probably would have 340 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: been conscious for some time and could have potentially moved 341 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: so he could have run. Probably he would have been 342 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: able to talk things like that, but with the blood 343 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: loss and just the shock from the pain, he probably 344 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,919 Speaker 1: wouldn't have gotten very far and then would have kind 345 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 1: of collapsed and got into shock. We know that he 346 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 1: Aubrey fell face down, that he was rolled over by 347 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 1: one of the McMichaels to see if he had a gun, 348 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: and he did not. Questions you, I know that one 349 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: of the weapons used was a three to fifty seven 350 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: Magnum the other one was a shotgun Leavi Page. Do 351 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: we know which weapon was used to actually shoot Abury 352 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: the shotgun or the three fifty seven The shotgun that 353 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: Trevis McMichael had to doctor Catherine Maloney. What would being 354 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: shot with a shotgun at close range due to the 355 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: human body, Well, depending on the type of ammunition. If 356 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: it was you know, it could be like a flug, 357 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: which would be a single large bullet versus if it 358 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: was multiple smaller bullets or pellets. They would have entered 359 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: the body and then basically would have destroyed the tissue 360 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: that they hit. So after going through the skin in 361 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: the abdomen, most likely he would have suffered injuries to 362 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: his intestines, his liver, possibly his stomach or spleen. He 363 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: would have probably pretty rapidly gone into shock, and there 364 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: would have been a lot of blood bloss When you 365 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: go into shot, what effect does that have on what 366 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: you feel and what you can perceive happening around you. Well, 367 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: I imagine right after he was shot, he probably would 368 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 1: have been in a great deal of pain and then 369 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: probably panic would have set in as he realized he 370 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 1: had been shot and experienced the pain of being shot 371 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: and realized, you know, that he was losing blood rapidly 372 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: before he subsequently lost consciousness. To Leavipage climb online dot 373 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter, how many times was he actually shot? 374 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: I know there were two gun discharges, but how many 375 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: times was he shot? It appears that he was shot 376 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 1: once that one miss and they but he was shot 377 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: in the app Yeah, was he shot from the front 378 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: to the back or the back to the front, front 379 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: to the back, front to the back. Guys, take a 380 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: Listen to CBS News correspond to Mr Villa Franca. Gregory 381 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 1: McMichael told investigators are very violently attacked Travis and the 382 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: two fought over the shotgun before Travis shot twice and 383 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: kill him. The prosecutor who previously had the case says 384 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: Travis acted out of self defense and the pursuers acted 385 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: within the scope of Georgia's citizens Arret statute essentially deputizes 386 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 1: all citizens to go out and perform police functions. They 387 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 1: did not do that properly. Lee Merritt, an attorney for 388 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: Arbury's family, says he believes there have not been any 389 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: indictments because Gregory McMichael is a former investigator for the 390 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: Brunswick District Attorney's office. That's why the case was transferred 391 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: to the Ware County District Attorney. There's more than enough 392 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: evidence for a case for murder. What do you think 393 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: those men should have done? They should have waited until 394 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: deathalis arrived. They had already made a call to Night 395 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: with Wine Crime Stories with Nancy Grace does. The facts 396 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: are murky, but we do know this. In the worst 397 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: case scenario for Ahmad Arebrey, if he was on a 398 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: construction site, realize he got spotted maybe or maybe didn't 399 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: commit burglaries in the past, takes off running. Even if 400 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,360 Speaker 1: all that is true, the law does not justify under 401 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: any citizens arrest statute that you grab your gun and 402 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: chase somebody down and inflict mortal deadly force on that 403 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: person when you're not yourself being pursued. That is clearly 404 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: what happened here, even in the worst case scenario for 405 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: this young man. Guys, a case is tearing our country apart. 406 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: If you have any information on this case at all. 407 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: The tip line is nine one two two six four 408 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: one three three three nine one two two six four 409 00:28:55,440 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: one three three three And Kurt nermy listeners are viewers 410 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: maybe wondering why I keep taking the worst case for 411 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: Aubrey side. The reason is, even under that case, this 412 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: type of deadly force is not justified. It's just not 413 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: justified at all. Agree or disagree, Oh no, you're absolutely right. 414 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: That's why I used the word execution earlier. You know, 415 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: like the doctor said, these guys might have planned it. 416 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: They were ready to go, and with the guy in 417 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,479 Speaker 1: the back of the truck, it looked like they were 418 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: going hunting, and I think the doctor was I don't 419 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: think that there's any way that they could have known 420 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: that at one o'clock in the afternoon on Sunday they 421 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: were going to see a burglar. Now, I do know 422 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: the whole neighborhood was very frustrated over many many break ins. 423 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: There have been a lot of burglaries in the area, 424 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: and they were angry and they were frustrated, and the 425 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: burglar couldn't be stopped. But I don't think there's any 426 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: way they're lying at wait at one o'clock in the 427 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: afternoon thinking they'll see a burglar in broad daylight. However, 428 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: they mobilized very quickly and chase the guy in their 429 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: pickup truck. Take a listen now to terrate minor needs 430 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,959 Speaker 1: for w j XT. Police say McMichael then armed himself 431 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: with his three fifty seven handguns. He and his son 432 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: followed Arbury, who was running for two blocks before, the 433 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: report states McMichael shouted stop, stop, we want to talk 434 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: to you. They pulled up next to Arbury, and police 435 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: say the former investigator's son exited the truck with a shotgun. 436 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: McMichael told police Arbury then violently attacked his son and 437 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: the two men started fighting over the shotgun. Travis McMichael 438 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: fired two shots, killing Arbury at the spot of this memorial. 439 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: Police say that McMichaels rolled Arbury over to see if 440 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: he had a weapon, and no weapon was found. Arbury's 441 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: former football coach suspects it was a case of mistaken identity. 442 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: People are known for jogging that area all the time, 443 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: and people know Mod jogs the area like he would 444 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: stop and sometimes he was in the middle of his 445 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: workout and he'll just tell you, like basketball, what the 446 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: younger keys. He'll right out greed and just kind of 447 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: shoot hoops with the kids and then you know, at 448 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: the end of the game, you'll just go back to jogging. 449 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: That's the kind of person he was, or everybody knew 450 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: him for exercise. This case is headed to a grand jury. 451 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: But what has taken so long? Listen again to terrate 452 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: minor Well. This shooting happened in Glenn County back on 453 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: February the twenty third, before the coronavirus pandemic, but the 454 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: case was transferred to Ware County because of the shooters 455 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: families ties to local law enforcement. The case was then 456 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: transferred again to the Hinesville District Attorney's office for the 457 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: very same reason. Arbery's family says the use of deadly 458 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: force just wasn't necessary and they want the shooter and 459 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: his father held accountable. I'm not here to a door 460 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: at the white male running down there? Where at the 461 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: tiller shorge? I don't know what greek wrong. That's the 462 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: voice of former District attorney investigator Greg McMichael, suspecting twenty 463 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: five years world Ahmad Aarbury was burglarizing houses under construction 464 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 1: at one o eight pm in this Brunswick neighborhood. According 465 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: to the police report, McMichael called for his son, Travis, 466 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: who grabbed his shotgun because they didn't know if the 467 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: mail was armed or not. I didn't even know what 468 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: he was doing. Long what they're not supposed to be. 469 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: He's been caught on a camera a bunch before night. Okay, 470 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: how do we know that's the person caught on camera? 471 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: Have these two been watching right now? I'm trying to 472 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: understand the delay in any formal charges or at least 473 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: a grand jury investigation. Now, Kirk nurremy former divise attorney 474 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: for Jodi Arius, author of Trapped with miss Arius. In 475 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: my jurisdiction, which had a very very heavy crime saturation, 476 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: a grand jury was held twice a week, every week, 477 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: rain or shine. In fact, we had lawyers I present 478 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: to the grand jury. When I first started, we had 479 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: lawyers debt Hey. That's all they did was present to 480 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,959 Speaker 1: grand jury twice a week. They would hear between one 481 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty and three hundred cases a day. Then 482 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: those indictments or nobiles would be fed to the clerks 483 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: office and assigned to courtrooms randomly by number. One courtroom 484 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: might get ten shopliftings, one courtroom might get ten murders. 485 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: But they were signed randomly by number to courtrooms. Long 486 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: story short, twice a week like clockwork. So what is 487 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: the hold up with not necessarily a grand jury indictment, 488 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: but a grand jury investigation that most likely would lead 489 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: to an indictment. What's the hold up? Nurmi? Well, I think, 490 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: from the looks of it, by the time that all 491 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: these conflicts got resolved and the authorities were ready to 492 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: prosecute the grand I mean all the people recusing themselves 493 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: that conflict, that conflict due to his size of law enforcement. 494 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: Now Georgia has suspended the grand juries and that is 495 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: the reason for cited anyway, for the lack of indictments, 496 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 1: and unfortunately the seappears the lack of arrest as well. Well, 497 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,800 Speaker 1: you're absolutely correct, the grand juries have been suspended until 498 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,359 Speaker 1: June thirteen at the earliest. The reality is a grand 499 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,760 Speaker 1: jury is made up from anywhere between sixteen to twenty 500 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: people to forty three forty four people, and they are 501 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 1: pulled from the voter pool and residence. So that's how 502 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: you get a grand jury. A grand jury is usually 503 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 1: in session for about three to four months, and they come, 504 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: as I told you, once or twice a week. That's 505 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: in big jurisdictions. So this grand jury in a much 506 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: smaller area may only meet, let's just say, once every 507 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,280 Speaker 1: other week or once a month. But long story short, 508 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: people want to see movement in the case. They want 509 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: to know the case is being investigated. Because doctor Angela Arnold, 510 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,320 Speaker 1: we're just hypo emphasizing, we are speculating about what we 511 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: think happened. Although we've got a video, I'm looking right 512 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: at it. You can see it. At crime online dot Com. 513 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: I don't think the video lies, so I've got a 514 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: pretty good idea. Plus the two the father's son MC michaels, 515 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: have given statements publicly about what happened, so I've got 516 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: a pretty good idea. So people get concerned when they 517 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 1: don't see the wheels of justice turning, and I don't 518 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 1: blame them, and as they should. The house. It's very scary, 519 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: isn't it that you could go outside, And there's so 520 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 1: many questions about this, but that you could go outside 521 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 1: and do something that somebody doesn't like it, somebody can 522 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,320 Speaker 1: shoot you and get away with And one question I 523 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,800 Speaker 1: have been asking LEVI was was he dressed as a jogger? 524 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: Amada Arbridge's twenty five years old. I'm looking right at him. 525 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: He's got on a white tshirt and shorts and tennis 526 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 1: shoes and Nancy. A lot of people were wondering, you know, 527 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 1: if he was gonna rob any anywhere, wouldn't he have 528 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 1: a duffel bag something to store items in? I mean, 529 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 1: what's he gonna and what's he gonna take from a house? 530 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: It's under construction, plywood, and there was no car for 531 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: him to get away from the robbery scene from I mean, 532 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: he was a jogger, and he was very athletic. He 533 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 1: was a high school football star, so it would make 534 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: sense that he would be out there working. He was 535 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,720 Speaker 1: a story playing the All Star Football Games two and twelve. 536 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: You're right, what was there to steal? Even if he 537 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: did steal it, what would he do with it? He's 538 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 1: got in a pair of shorts and a T shirt. 539 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: What's he gonna do? Stick it down his pants? Maybe? 540 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: I don't know. But my point is, again, even if 541 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: that's true, and I'm not saying it is, that still 542 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 1: does not justify deadly forced by a citizen on someone 543 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: running away. To doctor Catherine Maloney, Deputy Chief Medical examder 544 00:36:55,160 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: Erie County Emmy's office in Buffalo, he bled out lying 545 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: on the ground in this neighborhood. One minute, everything's fine, 546 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 1: the next minute he's bleeding out. Twenty five years old. 547 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: What does that mean to you when you hear a 548 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,839 Speaker 1: lay person like these witnesses say he bled out, um, Well, 549 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,719 Speaker 1: to me, that means that he lost so much of 550 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: his blood that he basically didn't have enough to sustain 551 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: his vital organs, so he couldn't transport enough oxygen to 552 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: his brain and his heart and his other tissues to 553 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,319 Speaker 1: keep himself alive because he didn't have enough blood left 554 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: to do that. A twenty five year old dead, We 555 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: wait as justice and falls. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing 556 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 1: off Goodbye friend,