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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday.

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Speaker 2: We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 3: What do we have personal.

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Speaker 4: Indeed, we do. It is Super Tuesday.

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Speaker 1: We're going to break it all down for you, what

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Speaker 1: to expect, what states are voting, how you can vote

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Speaker 1: uncommitted or with another protest.

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Speaker 4: Vote if you live in a Super Tuesday state.

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Speaker 1: And we also have a few key figures who are

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Speaker 1: sounding warning alarms for Joe Biden. Not that that's an

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Speaker 1: unusual thing at this point, but we'll give you that

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Speaker 1: as well. Speaking of Joe Biden, he gave a rare

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Speaker 1: interview to the New Yorker, and we learned something about

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Speaker 1: why those interviews are so rare, Some very lot going

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Speaker 1: on interesting comments that many people note of so we

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Speaker 1: will bring that to you. We also are following a

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Speaker 1: really important story. States are starting to fight back against

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Speaker 1: rental companies colluding to raise your rents. Some key action there,

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Speaker 1: so we'll tell you what is going on. This follows

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Speaker 1: up on a report we covered from Pro Publica previously

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Speaker 1: about this company that uses an algorithm to set rental prices.

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Speaker 4: But since they're getting fed.

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Speaker 1: In all of this rental information, it is effectively collusion.

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Speaker 4: So we'll give you all of those details.

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Speaker 1: Really important one for you and your life. We're also

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Speaker 1: taking a look at reactions which are pouring in after

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Speaker 1: that Scotus ruling we covered yesterday saying Trump can stay

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Speaker 1: on the ballot, saying that that provision in the constitution,

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Speaker 1: not that it doesn't necessarily apply, but it has to

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Speaker 1: go through Congress.

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Speaker 4: So we will react to all of that.

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Speaker 1: Yesterday, we also got a UN report on sexual violence

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Speaker 1: on October seventh.

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Speaker 4: We'll break that down for you.

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Speaker 1: Ryan's got another bombshell once again, completely undercutting that New

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Speaker 1: York Times reporting on October seventh, and actually the UN

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Speaker 1: report itself debunks a key narrative from that piece as well,

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Speaker 1: So we'll break that down for you and we've got

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Speaker 1: Congressman Rocana here in the studio to talk about Biden's

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Speaker 1: Israel policy.

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Speaker 4: So a lot to get to you this morning.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. And on Thursday, we've got our live

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Speaker 2: stream coming up. We've got a promotional graphic we can

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Speaker 2: go and put it up there on the screen. So

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Speaker 2: we will have a live stream that began shortly before.

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Speaker 2: We'll do a pre show. Then we'll go into the

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Speaker 2: state of the Union wall watch it together, we'll react

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Speaker 2: on the other side. Until we have an exclusive premium

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Speaker 2: only live stream for our subscribers, you guys can ask

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Speaker 2: us questions, all four of us here at the desk,

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Speaker 2: So Breakingpoints dot com if you want to become a

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Speaker 2: premium subscriber, and we will email and make sure that

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Speaker 2: you guys have all of the information that you need.

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Speaker 2: And in addition, you know, you really just help us

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Speaker 2: pay for and create like special logistic events and all

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Speaker 2: that stuff, because obviously it's outside of the normal schedule

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Speaker 2: and there's a lot of stuff that goes into it.

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Speaker 2: So thank you just everybody that supports our work here

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Speaker 2: Breakingpoints dot com.

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Speaker 3: Like I said, I love.

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Speaker 4: A good logistic event.

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Speaker 1: Sure we are actually got Auto b the four of

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Speaker 1: us spending a lot of quality time together this week,

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Speaker 1: because Saga and I are also going to join Ryan

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Speaker 1: only right tomorrow to react to whatever happens tonight on

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Speaker 1: Super Tuesday, so look out for that as well. And

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Speaker 1: speaking Super Tuesday, let's go ahead and put up on

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Speaker 1: the screen the map of the states that are voting today,

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Speaker 1: including my home state of Virginia. We've got, i believe,

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Speaker 1: sixteen states and one territory that are voting today. This

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Speaker 1: one you can see the number of delegates allocated per state. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: this is all about winning those delegates. The two parties

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Speaker 1: actually have different systems in terms of how they apportion

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Speaker 1: the delegates. The Democratic Party does a lot of like

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Speaker 1: proportional delegation, so that's how Uncommitted was able to pick

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Speaker 1: up a couple of delegates in the state of Michigan.

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Speaker 1: One interesting question tonight will be whether or not Uncommitted

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Speaker 1: or similar choices on the ballot in some of these states,

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Speaker 1: is able to pick up additional delegates to go to

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Speaker 1: the Democratic National Convention. And as you can see, California

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Speaker 1: and Texas the big delegate rich prizes on the ballot. Tonight,

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Speaker 1: Let's go and put this next map up on the screen.

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Speaker 4: We showed you this yesterday, but just to refresh.

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Speaker 1: This is courtesy of Eton Germentum, who did all of

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Speaker 1: the work of figuring out which states allow an uncommitted vote,

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Speaker 1: which ones you can write in some sort of protests vote,

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Speaker 1: and those are actually counted. Some of the states you

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Speaker 1: cannot vote uncommitted, but they will count blank ballots. Some

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Speaker 1: states you cannot vote uncommitted. It does have right ins,

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Speaker 1: but they don't actually count those right ins unless they'refore

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Speaker 1: quote unquote qualified candidates. So a few of the states

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Speaker 1: that do have that uncommitted option on the ballot that

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Speaker 1: are on that are voting today. You got Minnesota, you

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Speaker 1: got Colorado, you got North Carolina, you got Vermont. You've

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Speaker 1: got a number of states that will be where voters

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Speaker 1: will be able to very directly register that protest vote.

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Speaker 1: So that is certainly something we will be paying attention to.

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Speaker 1: You know, granted, there's been very little lead time terms

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Speaker 1: of organizing, but it'll be interesting to see whether some

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Speaker 1: of the momentum coming out of Michigan and the national

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Speaker 1: attention that that movement garnered, and the sense that the

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Speaker 1: Biden administration does feel some pressure from the results from

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Speaker 1: Michigan that could really impact the way that people turn

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Speaker 1: out to night Zager and let me just put up

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Speaker 1: this tear sheet just the basics of Super Tuesday. Want

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Speaker 1: to know about Super Tuesday and why it matters. As

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Speaker 1: they said, voters in sixteen different states in one territory

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Speaker 1: going to be choosing who they want to run for president.

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Speaker 1: Some states are also choosing who should run for governor

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Speaker 1: or senator for their state, and some district attorneys too.

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Speaker 4: In addition to.

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Speaker 1: The presidential contest, there is also an important race in

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Speaker 1: California to replace Dianne Feinstein. California has an unusual primary system.

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Speaker 1: All of the candidates, regardless of party, appear on the

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Speaker 1: same ballot, and then the top two vote getters go

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Speaker 1: on to run in the quote unquote general election. Adam

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Speaker 1: Schiff has actually been propping up the Republican candidate to

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Speaker 1: try to make sure that he is the only Democrat

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Speaker 1: on the ballot come this fall. So that will be

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Speaker 1: another thing to watch tonight. That is very significant.

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Speaker 2: Who would have thought Super Tuesday the more interesting story

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Speaker 2: would be on the Democratic side.

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Speaker 3: It's not exactly one that we.

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Speaker 2: Would have predicted a couple of months ago, but because

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Speaker 2: the Republican Convention is or at least the Republican election

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Speaker 2: contest is just so basically not even in question now

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Speaker 2: at this point the Democratic side, not necessarily that the

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Speaker 2: result is in question, but protest vote and how both

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Speaker 2: of those fit into the overall election. The number of delegates,

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Speaker 2: as you said, you've got thirty five percent on the

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Speaker 2: Republican side up for grabs and thirty six percent on

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Speaker 2: the Democrat side that are up for grabs. So neither

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Speaker 2: side is going to quinch going to get the number

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Speaker 2: of delegates necessarily that they need.

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Speaker 3: Exactly to win.

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Speaker 2: Apparently the earliest that that could happen is March twelfth

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Speaker 2: and March nineteenth for Joe Biden, which I basically expect

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Speaker 2: is going to be somewhere around there and that we

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Speaker 2: can all stop this nonsense with Nikki Haley at least.

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Speaker 2: But that's really what we're all looking for now, are

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Speaker 2: voting patterns, the level of victory. It'll be a big

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Speaker 2: question about Trump's electoral margin. Not necessarily that I think

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Speaker 2: it matters as much for the general election, Crystal, but

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Speaker 2: that's the big media thing. They're like, oh, if he's

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Speaker 2: underplaying his polls and saying, you know, Visa v.

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Speaker 3: Joe Biden.

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Speaker 2: So we can get real looks into the coalitions of

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Speaker 2: the faithful that do come out for primaries and just

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Speaker 2: be like, Okay, let's start to think about how.

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Speaker 3: This is really going to play out in the general election.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's more data, exactly, It's more information.

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Speaker 1: I guess the other thing to watch for tonight is

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Speaker 1: is Nicki Haley stay in this race.

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Speaker 4: After Super Tuesday.

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Speaker 1: She had originally sort of indicated, you know, she was

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Speaker 1: in it for the long haul than after the I

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Speaker 1: believe one of the recent contests, maybe in Michigan.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, my memory fails me, but she.

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Speaker 1: Said, you know, she sort of committed through Super Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: but not really beyond that. So I think we're on

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Speaker 1: Nikki Haley dropout watch as well as we go through

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Speaker 1: the Super Tuesday results and see how she fares.

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Speaker 4: I do think it'll be interesting.

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Speaker 1: You know, a lot of these states there hasn't been

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of primary polling because the result is

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Speaker 1: so certain on both sides of the ledger. But it

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Speaker 1: will be interesting to see if that trend continues of

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Speaker 1: Trump underperforming his polls, which is very different dynamic than

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Speaker 1: what we used to see from Trump back in twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen and beyond. So something to watch for anyway, Like

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Speaker 1: I said, more data.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 1: So Michael Moore, of course, famous filmmaker, has continued to

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Speaker 1: push the uncommitted protests vote. He was one of the

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Speaker 1: key figures helping to push that protest vote to over

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Speaker 1: one hundred thousand voters in the state of Michigan. Quite

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Speaker 1: an extraordinary performance for that protest movement, especially given the

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Speaker 1: short amount of time and the tiny amount of money

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Speaker 1: that was put behind it. He joined AMSMBC to continue

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Speaker 1: to talk about why this movement is important.

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Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to that.

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Speaker 2: Do you think Donald Trump is the threat that he

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Speaker 2: is and Joe Biden is gambling by aligning himself closely

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Speaker 2: with Net and Yahoo at the risk of American.

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Speaker 5: Democracy, absolutely, and gambling by aligning himself with an authoritarian

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Speaker 5: in Tel Aviv, somebody who who is facing a number

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Speaker 5: of felonious charges, who was supposed to stay on trial

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Speaker 5: this past fall, and that all got shoved aside because

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Speaker 5: now there's a war.

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Speaker 1: So one thing that's been interesting here, Sager, is you

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Speaker 1: have a number of people who are voting uncommitted or

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Speaker 1: it's equivalent in whatever state you know that they are

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Speaker 1: able to vote in. Some of them are not going

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Speaker 1: to vote for Biden. They're done right there. There's an

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Speaker 1: abandoned Biden movement that started in Michigan and they're like, listen,

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Speaker 1: he's backing a genocide.

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Speaker 4: It's too far, it's already too late. Forget about it.

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Speaker 1: But the more sort of like liberal argument from people

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Speaker 1: like Michael Moore is we're actually trying to help Joe Biden.

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Speaker 1: We're trying to push him in the right direction because

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Speaker 1: at the moment he's risking everything. I mean, Michael Moore

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Speaker 1: is one hundred percent voting for Joe Biden in the

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Speaker 1: fall right and despises Donald Trump. I think he's very clear, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he despises Donald Trump. He's going to be voting for

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden in the fall, et cetera. And so their

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Speaker 1: message is we're trying to push this man in the

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Speaker 1: right direction so he doesn't throw everything away for this

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Speaker 1: psycho right wing Netanya government. And I do think that

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Speaker 1: that because they've been able to stitch together both the

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Speaker 1: people are a little more radicalized and like forget it.

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Speaker 4: I'm not voting for Joe Biden and the people who

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Speaker 4: are still like am but lesser evil, and I don't

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Speaker 4: want Trump, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: The fact that they've been able to keep that together

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Speaker 1: and keep that messaging focus for an MSNBC type audience

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Speaker 1: is interesting to me.

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Speaker 3: Definitely.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think back to you weren't here for this,

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Speaker 2: Ryan and I interviewed the right ceasefire guy in right,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure, yeah, I mean, I encourage.

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Speaker 3: People to go watch it.

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Speaker 2: This could not be the most cookie cutter, like a

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Speaker 2: Democrat Boomer At the end, he loves Biden, didn't want

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Speaker 2: to vote.

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Speaker 3: For anybody else.

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Speaker 2: He literally ended our segment Crystal by saying thank you

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Speaker 2: to the Capitol Police for their actions on January sixth.

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Speaker 2: At first, I mean, we honestly thought he was trolling,

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Speaker 2: but I was like, oh no, he's one hundred percent serious.

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Speaker 2: But my point is is that, I mean, this is

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Speaker 2: the bespectacle live Boomer. Yeah, in a certain way, you

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Speaker 2: have to admire him if you put aside the damage

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Speaker 2: they've done to the country, and you're just like, wow, Okay,

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Speaker 2: so you know, this is certainly not the demographic that

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Speaker 2: people in the media may think are the.

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Speaker 3: Types who would come against it.

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Speaker 2: I thought it was very illuminating for me personally just

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Speaker 2: to say, Okay, well that's interesting because, as you said,

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Speaker 2: it's probably more Michael mooreliging. I mean, part of the

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Speaker 2: reason why it's so remarkable for Michael Moore is and

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Speaker 2: if people remember, he was literally on our show in

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Speaker 2: what was like November of maybe October of twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: talking about how Bill Barr was going to like personally

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Speaker 2: go and steal ballot boxes to rig the election.

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Speaker 3: I was like, man, this is some crazy shit.

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Speaker 2: But my point just being like, this is a person

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Speaker 2: who actually believes Trump is like a militant fascist who's

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Speaker 2: going to overthrow the government and have a coup day Todd,

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Speaker 2: if he's willing to mount a campaign against him, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I would certainly take notice of that.

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Speaker 4: Well, here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: Michael Moore is actually being far more consistent with what

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Speaker 1: Democrats claim they believe than the Democrats are themselves. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's what he's saying is like, you say all this

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Speaker 1: rhetoric about how our literal democracy in our country is

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Speaker 1: at stake on the ballot, and you are throwing you

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Speaker 1: can see the electoral damage. You know, the electoral damage,

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Speaker 1: and you continue to persist, why why, and so he

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Speaker 1: and many others. Their push is, we are trying to

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Speaker 1: push you in a direction that will perhaps improve your

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Speaker 1: chances against Donald Trump in the fall. At the same time,

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Speaker 1: another voice that you know you should always pay attention

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Speaker 1: to when it comes to swing states, especially in the

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Speaker 1: industrial Midwest, is Debbie Dingle, Congressman, longtime congresswoman. She famously

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Speaker 1: was sounding the alarms prior to twenty sixteen when everybody

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Speaker 1: on the Democratic side with oh, Hilary's going to win.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be easy. She barely even needs to campaign.

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Speaker 1: This is going to be fine. Donald Trump is a joke,

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Speaker 1: popping champagne on the plane before the election results even

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Speaker 1: come in, et cetera. She was saying, no, there's a

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Speaker 1: real problem here. And she has been consistently prescient in

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Speaker 1: a lot of her predictions. And you know, she's keeping

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Speaker 1: things pretty diplomatic and mild here, but she's also sounding

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Speaker 1: an alarm again about Biden's performance in Michigan and taking

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Speaker 1: note of the significance of that uncommitted vote.

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Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to that.

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Speaker 6: Michigan is a purple state, and I've been saying that

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Speaker 6: for a long time. We are a state that frequently

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Speaker 6: votes uncommitted. President Obama got a highly got a significant

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Speaker 6: I'm committed vote in two twelve.

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Speaker 4: But it is one.

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Speaker 6: Issue that needs to be paid attention to. I've got

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Speaker 6: a lot of people that are hurting in my district.

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Speaker 6: So first of all, I'm always the wrong person to

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Speaker 6: talk to about polling because I told the world, and

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Speaker 6: many of my Republican friends didn't leave me either, that

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Speaker 6: Donald Trump was going to win Michigan and thus won

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Speaker 6: the election in two sixteen. If you look at the

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Speaker 6: polling now that we're even looking at, there have been

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Speaker 6: three national polls that have showed Biden up, President Biden

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Speaker 6: up or tied with Donald Trump. The numbers and all

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Speaker 6: these different polls in the last but he's done well.

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Speaker 6: I think I do believe that President Biden is getting

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Speaker 6: that sense of urgency.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's her take at this point.

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Speaker 1: So listen, we'll see how it all unfolds tonight, if

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Speaker 1: there are any surprise performances, if there are places where

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Speaker 1: you know, uncommitted or similar protest efforts have a significant result,

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Speaker 1: And just once again to reiterate how widespread the problem

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Speaker 1: throughout the Democratic base is for Joe Biden. You know,

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Speaker 1: it was not just the college kids and the Arab

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Speaker 1: Americans who had something to say through their uncommitted protests

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Speaker 1: vote in Michigan. There was a widespread support for that

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Speaker 1: movement throughout the state, rural, urban, suburban, etc. And it'll

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Speaker 1: be interesting to see if that trend persists.

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Speaker 2: There's been a big debate around strategy Crystal, how can

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Speaker 2: the Democrats pull it out against Trump. One strategy is

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Speaker 2: just to ignore the polling. The other is to look

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Speaker 2: for silent indicators that may seem like things are better

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Speaker 2: than they seem. But on MSNBC, what is his name,

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Speaker 2: Donnie Dewish. We're not exactly sure where he came from

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Speaker 2: or how it became a political analyst, but he's on

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Speaker 2: Morning Joe, and nonetheless he's on the President's favorite television show.

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Speaker 2: He's come up with the new strategy about how to

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Speaker 2: make sure that Biden does beat Trump in the upcoming

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Speaker 2: general election. Let's take a listen to his analysis.

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Speaker 7: I'm afraid, you know, I've been one of the most

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Speaker 7: outspoken guy. You know, it's interesting somebody said to me,

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Speaker 7: are you afraid of if he gets re elected And

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Speaker 7: I hadn't thought about it, and like he's coming after Joe,

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Speaker 7: He's going to come after me, he might come after you.

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Speaker 3: I mean, this is.

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Speaker 7: What people are not comprehending. And here's the campaign that

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Speaker 7: Democrats need to run. And I've been thinking about this

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Speaker 7: a lot. There are four people that need to step forward, Kelly, Mattis,

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Speaker 7: McMaster and Millie and there needs to be a general campaign.

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Speaker 7: Where are these generals who have worked with him need

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Speaker 7: to turn to the American public and turn to Cameron

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Speaker 7: and say, you don't understand how scary this can be.

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Speaker 7: We really can go over a cliff here. These people,

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Speaker 7: patriots need to start to stand up because that's what

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Speaker 7: America listens to. I think if you do the right

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Speaker 7: campaign with those four guys and you continue to put

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Speaker 7: the message out, you're going to lose control of your bodies.

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Speaker 8: Women.

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Speaker 7: Immigration will even get worse as it did the first

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Speaker 7: time with Donald Trump. Our democracy is really, really really

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Speaker 7: online here and our way of life will change.

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Speaker 3: Get people, scare the shit out of people, Scare the

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Speaker 3: shit out of people.

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Speaker 2: Aspiring strategy very inspiring, Crystal, and also it's definitely like

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Speaker 2: it's never been done before.

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Speaker 3: It's not like we've heard all that rhetoric all this

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Speaker 3: time around.

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Speaker 2: So there's a lot going on here, but it fits

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Speaker 2: with a general pan againstide the Biden administration and the

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Speaker 2: Biden admin did a long profile with Evan Osno's he's

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Speaker 2: a reporter over at the New Yorker, and they gave

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Speaker 2: us a little preview into their electoral strategy. So let's

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Speaker 2: go and start with their first one. Here's Joe Biden's

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Speaker 2: last campaign. Trailing Trump in the polls and facing doubts

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Speaker 2: about his age, the President of voices defiant confidence in

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Speaker 2: his prospects for re election. The most noteworthy quote, I

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Speaker 2: thought came from Tom Donellan. Tomlin is a longtime Biden advisor.

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Speaker 2: He's a real whisperer. And here's the strategy. He says,

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Speaker 2: quote by November, he predicted the focus will become overwhelming

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Speaker 2: on democracy. I think the biggest images in people's minds

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Speaker 2: are going to be of January sixth. So he sees

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Speaker 2: a parallel crystal to the race between George W. Bush

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Speaker 2: and John Kerry at the time Donald and says he

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Speaker 2: worked for Kerry. The Democratic Priorty didn't want to believe

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Speaker 2: it was a nine to eleven election. Instead, the party

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Speaker 2: wanted to focus on an array of issues like other things,

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Speaker 2: but it all came.

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Speaker 3: Back to nine to eleven.

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Speaker 2: Now, I'm just going to say I think nine to

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Speaker 2: eleven was a little bit more pertinent and different in

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Speaker 2: two thousand and four because we were in the middle

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Speaker 2: of a mass of war in Iraq.

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Speaker 3: But maybe that's just me.

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Speaker 2: Now here's let's lay out how Donalin arrived.

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Speaker 3: At this conclusion.

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Speaker 2: Many of us, including at this desk, were poop pooing

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Speaker 2: that strategy ahead of the twenty twenty two midterms. It

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Speaker 2: ended up being tremendously impactful. That said, that was also

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Speaker 2: a combination of abortion. We will never actually know what

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Speaker 2: the real impact of stop the Steel and abortion was.

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Speaker 2: I still believe that abortion was far more influential than

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Speaker 2: a lot of stop the Stone.

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Speaker 3: I would have loved to be able to see an election.

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Speaker 2: Without abortion on the ballot that was purely about kind

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Speaker 2: of maga kukery. Now, I'm not going to say it

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Speaker 2: didn't have any impact, but I think it was relatively

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Speaker 2: marginal as opposed to abortion.

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Speaker 3: That said, are you really going to bank it all on?

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Speaker 2: Frankly, what barely saved you last time from twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: two and two more years removed from the date, Why

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Speaker 2: do you possibly think it is as relevant as nine

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Speaker 2: to eleven was in two thousand and four, when, as

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Speaker 2: I said, we were still litigating at a very you know,

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Speaker 2: like a real degree where our troops were dying in

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Speaker 2: the middle of a war and we were still in

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Speaker 2: the you know, all this morass in Afghanistan. How can

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Speaker 2: you possibly think that those two are still so linked

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Speaker 2: in like the American consciousness.

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Speaker 3: When people are going to go to the polls, it's

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Speaker 3: March fifth.

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Speaker 2: Right now, it feels, you know, a million miles away

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Speaker 2: January sixth now add several months to that for election day.

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Speaker 3: I think it's an incredibly full hearty strategy.

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Speaker 1: It just seems like there is an unbelievable amount of

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Speaker 1: complacency and arrogance among the Biden people, and that they've

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Speaker 1: drawn these lessons from both his ability to win the

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Speaker 1: primary and the Democratic primary back in twenty twenty with

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Speaker 1: a lot of assistance from you know, Obama and the.

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Speaker 4: Media and whatever.

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Speaker 1: But he was able to pull that off against the

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Speaker 1: odds and people in counteramount, et cetera, et cetera. And

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Speaker 1: you combine that with the over performance in the midterms.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they still didn't win the House, but they

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Speaker 1: did much better than the predictions. They did much better

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Speaker 1: than incumbent presidents usually do in midterm elections. And they've

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Speaker 1: just decided that data doesn't matter, criticism doesn't matter, that

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Speaker 1: they can just stay the course and block everything out

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Speaker 1: and it's going to be just fine.

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Speaker 4: And so I mean that's what you see from here now.

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Speaker 1: Listen, we haven't seen any affirmative We're down the State

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Speaker 1: of the Union.

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Speaker 4: This week.

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Speaker 1: Maybe Biden will lay out some more affirmative, positive looking

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Speaker 1: vision of what the second term would look like.

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Speaker 4: That's possible, we'll see, but he ain't done it yet.

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Speaker 1: And it's very clear that they're leaning into basically the

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Speaker 1: Donnie Deutsch strategy of let's just scare the shit out

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Speaker 1: of people and hope it works one more time.

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Speaker 4: Maybe it will, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the you know, Republicans don't do themselves any

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Speaker 1: favors with all of the like wacky shit that they're

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Speaker 1: doing all the time, not just January six. And I

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Speaker 1: think for my assessment of the midterms, it was you

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Speaker 1: can't really pull apart the factors of Stop the Deal

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Speaker 1: and that sort of cookery in January sixth, and abortion

441
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,440
Speaker 1: and the level of extremism with regard to that issue.

442
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,560
Speaker 1: It just made the entire party seem like they were

443
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,879
Speaker 1: fringe wackos. So I think it all sort of plays

444
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,399
Speaker 1: in together. Maybe that works again, but I don't know

445
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,280
Speaker 1: how you look at these poles not just a one off,

446
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,600
Speaker 1: not just an outlier, not just an occasional poll, but

447
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 1: literally every pole that comes out and not say, you

448
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 1: know what, we may be thinking about this wrong. We

449
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 1: need to reassess, we need to come up with some

450
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 1: ideas of how to actually defeat Trump. And we're going

451
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 1: to talk more about the Scotus ruling here in a bit.

452
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,040
Speaker 1: But I also think they need a wake up call

453
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,119
Speaker 1: that the legal system is not going to save them.

454
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,960
Speaker 1: It's not going to come to their rescue. It's not

455
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,879
Speaker 1: clear that it's going to change significant votes from Trump

456
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 1: to Biden. They are going to have to figure this

457
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,199
Speaker 1: out themselves. And right now there's just nothing but arrogance

458
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,440
Speaker 1: and complacency coming from everybody around him.

459
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,119
Speaker 2: You also see almost frankly delusional promises Biden.

460
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 3: Let's put this up there on the screen. This was

461
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 3: what really struck me.

462
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 2: Whenever they asked Biden what exactly he was going to

463
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 2: do in a second term, he says, quote, I will

464
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,119
Speaker 2: pass Roe versus Way a raid as the law of

465
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 2: the land. Democrats would then need to win control of

466
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,359
Speaker 2: the House of Representatives and gain seats in the Senate,

467
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,160
Speaker 2: but he expressed confidence a few more elections like we've

468
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 2: seen placed with states would suffice you're seeing the country changing,

469
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 2: reiterating his position on Row, I've never been more supportive

470
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:29,280
Speaker 2: of it's my body.

471
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 3: I could do what I want with it.

472
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,439
Speaker 2: But I have been supportive of the notion that this

473
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,639
Speaker 2: is probably the most rational allocation of my responsibility that

474
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 2: all the major religions have signed on and debated over

475
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,120
Speaker 2: the last thousand years.

476
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:41,480
Speaker 3: So very convoluted.

477
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:45,919
Speaker 2: Quote frankly there from Biden almost abandoning the libertarian framing

478
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,199
Speaker 2: and kind of putting in his own what is it

479
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 2: putting in his own religious interests? I guess within that,

480
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,160
Speaker 2: But I mean, at a baseline level, Crystal, you can't

481
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 2: say that you're going to pass Roe versus Wade when

482
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 2: the last time that Democrats had a filibuster proof majority

483
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 2: and control the House of representatives under Barack Obama who

484
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,640
Speaker 2: also said that he would do it. They didn't do it,

485
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 2: so why would they believe you. Also, as I understand it,

486
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,440
Speaker 2: maybe I'm wrong. Mathematically in the terms of the Senate math,

487
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 2: it's actually impossible for them to get a filibuster proof majority.

488
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 3: He supports a filibuster.

489
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,240
Speaker 2: Thus, how can you claim that with a straight face.

490
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 2: There's not a single Republican in the United States Senate

491
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 2: that would sign on to specifically Row. Now, maybe a

492
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 2: fourteen week or whatever. Maybe I'd still doubt it, But

493
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,639
Speaker 2: my point is is like, this is a do and

494
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 2: that's the only promise he's got, and it's a fake

495
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 2: one if you know anything about how the political system

496
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 2: is structured, I am.

497
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 4: Just really struck by.

498
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, presidents put on all kinds of delusional promises.

499
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:39,200
Speaker 4: That's par for the course.

500
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm actually surprised they don't talk about that more.

501
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 1: This is honestly the first time I've even really heard

502
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 1: him mention that he hasn't even an intention of codifying

503
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 1: Roe as the law of the land. So your point

504
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: is apt that he has no actual strategy for getting

505
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 1: that done. And part of the reason he has no

506
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 1: strategy for getting that done. Is is evidenced in the

507
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 1: other part of the quote where he's like, Yeah, this

508
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,880
Speaker 1: whole pro choice thing is not really my bag. It's

509
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 1: my body, my choice. That's not really ever been my thing.

510
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:11,719
Speaker 1: It's like, do you understand how this issue has saved

511
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 1: your party's ass now in multiple elections, that this is

512
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: like the only reason why you all did okay in

513
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 1: the midterms and did all right in these special elections,

514
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 1: et cetera. And you know, like pour cold water on

515
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,679
Speaker 1: it and make it very clear to everyone involved that

516
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 1: you don't really care. You're not going to fight for it,

517
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: and you'll, sure, you'll throw out some empty words and

518
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 1: empty promises, but it doesn't go any beyond that. Now,

519
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 1: I think most people who are voting on this issue

520
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: are not actually voting on like, oh, I think the

521
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 1: Democrats are really going to like restore my rights. They're

522
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: voting on the Republicans are going to make things even worse.

523
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: And the Republicans have demonstrated that they want to make

524
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: things even worse in states across the country. You know

525
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: the IVF situation in Alabama, there was a bill that

526
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 1: would have codified access and protect IVF at the federal

527
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 1: level that Republicans blocked. So I think that's where probably

528
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: more of the energy is, because people just have so

529
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 1: little hope that any of the party's really going to

530
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: deliver for them, let alone a man who just comes

531
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: out and is basically like, yeah, pro choice, I'm just

532
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 1: not really that's not really my thing. So I think

533
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: that's where the energy is. But this certainly doesn't help

534
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 1: his prospects, and as part of why they don't let

535
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 1: him do interviews very often because he says stuff like.

536
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 3: This, It's like, what are you talking about.

537
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 2: It's also interesting because that type of messaging might has

538
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 2: he even then I think about it. Something I go

539
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 2: back and watch all the time just to remind myself

540
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 2: of a different world is Bill Clinton's acceptance speech of

541
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 2: the nineteen ninety two Democratic Convention. It's on YouTube if

542
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 2: anybody wants to go and watch it, and he's adamant.

543
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 2: He says safe, legal, and rare over and over again.

544
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 2: It's kind of like a perfect secular messaging in my opinion,

545
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 2: and some what came across to me with Biden is

546
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 2: I still think in his mind he's living in the

547
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 2: nineteen eighties, where he's living in like a very Christian

548
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 2: country with a moral majority and all that still exists.

549
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 3: It's like, bro, you know, half this country is.

550
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 2: You know, Christian to the point where like they don't

551
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 2: go to church and it's mostly entirely cultural. If you

552
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 2: were to question an articul like really jig down into

553
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,239
Speaker 2: their real beliefs, their agnostic at best and mostly just

554
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 2: secular and or non believers, deeply more socially libertarian than

555
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 2: at any time in modern history. I've never believed that safe,

556
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 2: legal and rare is like the most popular messaging today

557
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,199
Speaker 2: than it was in nineteen ninety two when Bill Clinton

558
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 2: won that election. So it's interesting to me to see

559
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 2: him kind of torture himself through this and then the

560
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 2: final part that we had to pull here, Let's please

561
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 2: put this up there because it's just you can't even

562
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 2: make it up now. In terms of proving his prowess

563
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 2: about saying that the White House by allaying criticism that

564
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 2: the White House is quote insular or dismisses of reality,

565
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 2: Jeff Zeitz, who is the chief of staff, has pointed

566
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 2: to Biden's reputation of quote soliciting opinions from critics as

567
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 2: he says, just the other day, he picked up the

568
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 2: phone and he called Larry Summer.

569
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 4: What a bold move. No president's ever done that before.

570
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, he would be I believe he would be.

571
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 2: Trump definitely never called Larry Summers. Oh, he probably met

572
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 2: with him. So let's Obama definitely. Obama employed Larry Summers.

573
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 2: Bill Clinton employed Larry Summers.

574
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 3: George W. Bush.

575
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 2: I wouldn't put it past him to talk to Larry Summers.

576
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 2: So how many presidents in a row?

577
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 5: Then?

578
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 4: Does that make that?

579
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 3: Doesn't make you unconventional.

580
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 2: That's like you know, going to a Georgetown cocktail party

581
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 2: soliciting foreign policy advice and saying that you're going outside

582
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 2: of the normal things.

583
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 4: Like dissenting voices like I don't think that's how works.

584
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 2: Maybe want to update the boomer press or silent generation President,

585
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 2: I apologize, he said. Biden's other occasional calls ranged from

586
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 2: columnist Thomas Friedman to sentiment to Republican leader Mitch McConnell.

587
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 2: He says, that's how you pressure test decisions. What world

588
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 2: is this if? When I connect the abortion this man

589
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 2: is in the nineteen eighties, that's where he is.

590
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: You can't you couldn't possibly name three more staid architects

591
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: of the status quo than those three men.

592
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 4: I mean it really like that. That's the list of

593
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 4: people that.

594
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: Comes out of your mouth is actually quite extraordinary. And

595
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: you know, Sience has come in. You replaced ron Klain.

596
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 1: Clain had some better ties with the progressive world. He

597
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: was pushing, you know, the big stimulus. At the beginning

598
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 1: of the miministration. There was a lot more sort of

599
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: connectivity with a more aggressive like SDR style, Not that

600
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: he ever became anywhere close to living up to that,

601
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: but that was more of the vision. Sience is this

602
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: corporate establishment sold out tool.

603
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 3: And it's worth like two hundred million dollars.

604
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And so you know there has been basically since

605
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: he's come in, Biden hasn't really done anything that has

606
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: been good. So that's effectively the tenure of Jeff Science.

607
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: And you know that he's the one saying, oh well,

608
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 1: Biden's douent. Grays is seeking out all these dissenting voices

609
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 1: and pressure testing his decisions with Larry Summers, Mitch McConnell,

610
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: and Thomas Friedman. It is so revealing, so revealing, and

611
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: also incredibly hilarious.

612
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 2: Let's get to why all of this is a problem.

613
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 2: Let's go and put this up there on the screen.

614
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 2: This is actually seriously remarkable because it demonstrates the underlying

615
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: strength that Trump has. This is more from the New

616
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 2: York Times Sana pol They say, quote, no matter race, age,

617
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 2: or gender, more voters say Trump's policies helped than Biden's.

618
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 2: So do you think Joe Biden or Donald Trump's policies

619
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 2: have helped you personally? Joe Biden eighteen percent, Trump's policies

620
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 2: forty percent. You know what really is underlying in this crystal.

621
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 2: If you look at some of the interviews, those COVID checks,

622
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 2: people remember the hell out of that. They remember deeply

623
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 2: some of those COVID stimulus checks. So for all the

624
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 2: people out there, but you know Biden, he did, but

625
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 2: it was at the end. And I think that they're

626
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 2: pairing inflation, probably more so with the tail end, whereas

627
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 2: they remember low gas prices plus really buy that.

628
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 3: I mean what I say maybe right.

629
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: I'm just saying like, if you have both presidents that

630
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: sent out COVID jacks, I don't think that you can

631
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: really ascribe that to you know, this difference. I think

632
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: that a big problem for Biden is first of all,

633
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: people remember things through rose color glasses, so you know,

634
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: it kind of cuts against normally there's like an incumbency advantage.

635
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: This is a very weird election because you basically have

636
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: two incumbents going up against each other. And in some ways,

637
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,959
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is benefiting from the way that memories have faded,

638
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: whereas last time around, when he was in office and

639
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: we were in the midst of COVID and people were

640
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: miserable and they were like, you know, very frustrated with

641
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: him and his like you know, remember those bizarre press

642
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: conferences and the like the bleach and all that insanity.

643
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: At the end of like people were disgusted with that,

644
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: and that was a huge boon to Joe Biden, I

645
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: think is what helped push him over the line.

646
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 4: I honestly think a big part of this too is

647
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 4: people just.

648
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: They don't have any confidence that anything that has potentially

649
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: improved for them, which there are you know, there is

650
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: data now that say says that on some metrics, people

651
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: are doing better economically than they were, say a year

652
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: or two years ago, But they don't give Biden credit

653
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: for that because they see that he is like old

654
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: and doddering, and they have zero confidence that he's able

655
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: to deliver on anything. So they're not attributing like if

656
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: their position gets a little bit better. They're not like, oh,

657
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: that's thanks to Joe Biden. It's you know, it's in

658
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: spite of Joe Biden.

659
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 4: So to me, that's a big part of what's going

660
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 4: on here.

661
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: And that was one of the things that both Azer

662
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: Client and Aate Silver I think pointed to in their

663
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: pieces about why the Democratic Party should ditch Joe Biden.

664
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: They're like, the economic numbers are improving and his approval

665
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: rating is not, and that's a problem for him because

666
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: that means there's basically nothing you can do to sort

667
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: of get people convinced that you're good for the country

668
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: because they've just decided you're too frickin' old and you

669
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: can't get anything done.

670
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 2: Well, what really struck me, if can we put that

671
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: tear sheet please back up on the screen, be five,

672
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 2: just because I want to really point to a number.

673
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 2: There is the hurt you personally. Do you see that

674
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 2: one Biden's policies forty three percent say hurt me personally?

675
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 2: Twenty five percent of Trump policy And that was pretty insane,

676
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 2: considering this is the man who appointed Supreme Court justices

677
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 2: on Row versus Way, and he says not made much

678
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 2: of a difference relatively tied at thirty nine and thirty four.

679
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 2: What struck me also is that within gender, if you

680
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 2: look at help me personally, both men and women highly

681
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 2: rate Trump dramatically. Really, Seventeen percent and eighteen percent men

682
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 2: and women respectively say that Biden policies helped forty one

683
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 2: percent and thirty nine percent say that they did help

684
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 2: for men and women, so almost a twenty points spread

685
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 2: there in Trump's favor. By ethnicity, it's the same thing.

686
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 2: Forty four percent say that Trump helped them, twenty six

687
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 2: percent of White's, twenty six percent of Blacks, thirty seven

688
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 2: percent of Hispanics.

689
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 3: By age, you actually see a huge.

690
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 2: Benefit to Trump amongst the forty five to sixty four demographic.

691
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, by the way America, those are the people who vote.

692
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 2: Forty eight percent say that Trump's policies help them. Twenty

693
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 2: one percent say that Biden's policies help them. Same amongst

694
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 2: the boomers sixty five plus thirty eight percent versus twenty

695
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 2: percent on Biden. So base I mean age, gender, wherever

696
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 2: you look, you know, a huge portion of this. Also,

697
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 2: I'm starting to think about when I look at these numbers,

698
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 2: is I think interest rates play a big role in this.

699
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 3: Way that people have, you know.

700
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 2: I mean, if you think about that number, the forty

701
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: five to sixty four, these are the four oh one

702
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 2: K generation, you know, the four oh one K millionaires.

703
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 3: I mean, let's be honest.

704
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 2: The stock market was booming under Trump, and more so

705
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 2: the interest rate policies, inflation and all of the basically

706
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 2: the chaos of the last couple of years, on top

707
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 2: of increasing borrowing costs for folks who may be putting

708
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 2: off retirement or you know, trying to take it a loan,

709
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 2: trying to fund a business or something like that. That

710
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 2: is really going to screw you both at the lowest end,

711
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 2: like a eighteen to twenty nine year old and a

712
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 2: forty five to sixty four year old. Just because you

713
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 2: can compare the literal gain from previously to now sixty

714
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 2: five plus, I mean, you know a lot of folks

715
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 2: who were retired. They did get a nine percent inflation

716
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 2: increase in Social Security, which Biden did try to take

717
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 2: credit for. If you remember that he was like Social

718
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 2: security increased under me. It's like, yeah because of inflation, dude,

719
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 2: not because of anything that you did, But okay, go

720
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 2: for it. Point just being that I think I think

721
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 2: interest rates had a massive impact on the psychological way

722
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 2: that we thought about the economy, especially for you know,

723
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 2: just anecdotally friends who are buying houses. You know, the

724
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 2: prices really remain very, very high, and with the mortgage

725
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 2: rates where they are some six to seven percent, I mean,

726
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 2: you know, don't look at your mortgage balance would be

727
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 2: my advice, just because you're going to see how much

728
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 2: you're pain and interest versus how much principle that you're

729
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 2: really putting down on your house.

730
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 3: I think that was a big part of it.

731
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, huge part of it too that we see Crystal

732
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 2: is about the flipover Nate silver Vary Astuteley.

733
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 3: Let's put this up there.

734
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 2: In his latest says Biden's problem is with swing voters,

735
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 2: not his base. He points to that graphic that you

736
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 2: can see in front of you for her watching. It

737
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 2: shows us political party identification, and it actually shows the

738
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,719
Speaker 2: political party identification for Republicans and Democrats is near all

739
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 2: time lows, both at twenty seven and twenty seven percent.

740
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 2: The independent number is actually at forty three. Now, what

741
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 2: he shows also is that amongst those independent voters, they

742
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 2: are shifting hard against Joe Biden. And in fact, one

743
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 2: of the crazy things that he pointed out is that

744
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 2: some ten percent of people who voted for Joe Biden

745
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 2: in the twenty twenty election are now affirmatively saying they

746
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 2: are going to vote.

747
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 3: For Trump, not that they are undecided.

748
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 2: More so, only less than one percent of the people

749
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 2: who voted for Trump are saying that.

750
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 3: They are willing to switch to the other side.

751
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 2: So huge swing voter problem there where you know, if

752
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 2: you combine the coalitional issues plus the swing voter issues,

753
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 2: Biden is I mean, he's looking more and more cooked

754
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 2: by the day with all the caveats. Y.

755
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, I mean that was actually Nate silverspiece

756
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: kind of irritated me because what you just said is

757
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: accurate that he has problems in both of these areas,

758
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 1: Like I don't think you can look at the disgust

759
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: over the Israel policy and how dramatically opposed not just

760
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: young people in these few demographic groups, but the overall

761
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 1: majority of the of Joe Biden voters from twenty twenty

762
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: disagree with him on Israel, some so strongly that they

763
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: are not coming back. Some so strongly that they're willing

764
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: to go out and vote uncommitted in order to launch

765
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: this protest. I mean so strongly that they're terrified of

766
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: even showing up on a college campus because they know

767
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: they're going to be met with protests. So I don't

768
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: think you can look at that and be like, Eh,

769
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: the base is fine. No't worry about the base. It's

770
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,439
Speaker 1: both like you have a base problem. You need those

771
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: people who are like core democratic constituencies to show up

772
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 1: for you. You need you know, the like modern traditional

773
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: democratic coalition which is really relying on young people.

774
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 4: You need those people to be willing.

775
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: To come out and vote for you and not to

776
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 1: stay home and not to go vote for Gornell West

777
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: or Jill Stein. And you also need to win independence.

778
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: So it kind of irritated me how he like pitted

779
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: these true groups against each other, like you have to

780
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: pick one or the other. Joe Biden has problems with both.

781
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: He needs to win over both, perhaps with independence.

782
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 3: You know.

783
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: The thing that would really you know, push them in

784
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: his direction is if he had more affirmative, positive vision

785
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: in terms of the economy that they actually had confidence

786
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: in him delivering, which I think is a major problem

787
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: for there's nothing you.

788
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 4: Can do about his age.

789
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 1: It is what it is, which is I think a

790
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: big part of the reason why it's these numbers are

791
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: unlikely to.

792
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 3: Move, I would say one of the biggest reasons.

793
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 4: But he also has real problems with the Democratic.

794
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,919
Speaker 1: Base, and you need all of those pieces in order

795
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: to win, especially given how close closely divided the country is,

796
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: how close we expect this election to ultimately be. So

797
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: I kind of I've actually kind of found this column

798
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: irritating and annoying.

799
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 2: Fair enough, he's pointing to a legitimate issue. He's not

800
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 2: pointing to all of the issues. We can all wins

801
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 2: and losses are multifaceted. He can't point to any one thing.

802
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 2: I think this points that when you are losing so

803
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 2: many grounds in battles on different fronts, it makes it

804
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 2: so that you are it's very difficult to try and calibrate,

805
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 2: to try and think about where you're going to go,

806
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 2: what exactly you're going to do, and then where we

807
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 2: connected to what we started off this story with, which

808
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 2: is the Biden strategy of January six, I'm not seeing

809
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 2: a whole lot of January six hope in these numbers.

810
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 2: It didn't show up last time either, So like, let's

811
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 2: at least give them credit for this. Yeah, No, Hampshire

812
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, these people got fifth, They're cooked. There's no

813
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 2: way they're going to win. Guess what they end up

814
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 2: winning South Carolina Boom.

815
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 3: The guys literally the.

816
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 2: Democratic president or a Democratic nominee. I mean, he eventually

817
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 2: wins the election. Same thing in twenty twenty. Story is

818
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 2: he's done. There's no way. All history is against him.

819
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 2: They pulled it out. So let's not give them, you know,

820
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 2: let's let's give him some credit for their strategy. I

821
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 2: think a lot of it has to do with their

822
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 2: opposing force rather than anything that they do.

823
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:29,439
Speaker 3: They're banking on the same thing.

824
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: I would just say, first of all, it's a very

825
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 2: very small sample size.

826
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 3: And number two is that that's a hell of a risk.

827
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 2: It's a hell of a risk because if it's just

828
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 2: one thing goes the other way. I mean, I just

829
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 2: always think of whenever you're trying to win anything in life,

830
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 2: you've got to do everything, and you're humanly possible to

831
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 2: cover all of your bases and then also hope that

832
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 2: your opponent makes a mistake. They're very much like in

833
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 2: our opponent is such an idiot, it'll take care of it.

834
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,760
Speaker 4: Ary strategy, right exactly.

835
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 3: That's how you lose.

836
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 2: So anyway, I don't think it's going to work out

837
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 2: for them, will say, we certainly will.

838
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 3: Let's move on to the next part.

839
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 2: There's some very inspiring story, actually some very interesting state

840
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 2: government action against raising rent prices. So we've talked to

841
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 2: here previously about algorithmic basically programs consortiums and companies that

842
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 2: have been buying up real estate and that landlords can

843
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 2: then self enter into where they can collude with each

844
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 2: other to set rental markets and to increase aggregate prices

845
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 2: above where normal rent inflation is.

846
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 3: We're now actually seeing.

847
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 2: A report out of the state of Arizona where the

848
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 2: Attorney General is suing Real Page, which is a company

849
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 2: and organization and landlords and accusing them of conspiring to

850
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,399
Speaker 2: illegally raise rents. We have a bit of a taste

851
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 2: from a local news report there on the ground that

852
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 2: we just wanted to play for all of you.

853
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

854
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,760
Speaker 9: It's a story many value renters know all too well,

855
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 9: major spikes in their own rent.

856
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 4: To six and i'mlike, Okay, that's that's what it's the

857
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 4: the next year they raise that. I think it was

858
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,439
Speaker 4: like two hundred dollars a month.

859
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,479
Speaker 9: State Attorney General Chris Mays feels these price hikes aren't

860
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 9: a coincidence, but possibly a conspiracy.

861
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 10: I don't think it's a stretch to say that people

862
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 10: were made homeless by the scheme.

863
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 9: A recent lawsuit from Mazes pointing the finger at the

864
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 9: software company real Page for collecting leasing data and using

865
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 9: that information to collude with at least nine land order

866
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 9: management companies, all in order to keep rent prices high

867
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 9: and create a rental monopoly in both the Phoenix and

868
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 9: Tucson area.

869
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 10: The companies were actually talking about the algorithm and how

870
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,839
Speaker 10: much money it was going to make them to their investors.

871
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 2: So what's really interesting is if you look at some

872
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 2: of the data included, they say, according to the Attorney

873
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 2: General's office, thirty six percent of Phoenix households are renters.

874
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 2: They have seen a seventy six percent rent increase from

875
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen. Meanwhile, in Tucson, thirty seven percent of households

876
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 2: remain renters with a thirty percent rent increase, they say.

877
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 2: Several tenants who rent from these companies were named in

878
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 2: the lawsuit, say that while price went up, quote, no

879
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: physical changes happened in their living areas.

880
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 3: They keep getting money from.

881
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 2: Everybody, but I don't know what they are doing with

882
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 2: all that money, said one renter, who did not want

883
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 2: to be identified. So they'd said, I would say these

884
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 2: last two years or last two or three years, it

885
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 2: was a headache. I mean, one of the things they're

886
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 2: pointing to, and it's not only the large landlord organizations,

887
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 2: but is the company itself real Page, which allows property

888
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 2: management you know, companies and others to enter and to

889
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 2: basically enter into some sort of price fixing scheme. And

890
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 2: you know, my advice too, is this lady's a Democrat,

891
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 2: you know, and this is how you get reelected, you know,

892
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 2: and elected by the way, in a red state. Just

893
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 2: if you're wondering about the things that real good governance

894
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 2: and things really people will pay attention to. If you're

895
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 2: able to stop a seventy six percent increase in rent, yet,

896
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 2: that's that's pretty impactful. You know, you shouldn't forget that,

897
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 2: you know.

898
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 1: What Arizona has impressed me on a couple of fronts,

899
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:53,720
Speaker 1: this being one. Another one is going after those Saudi

900
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: backed firms that were buying up all the land and

901
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: stuck and dry all the water, and they're buying up

902
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: for pennies on the dollar a bunch of medical debt

903
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: and dismissing it, discharging it so that the residents of Arizona,

904
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: you know, can be a you can get some relief

905
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: from this overhang and burden of medical debt, which is

906
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: really interesting, which we should actually cover on another day.

907
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: But you know, to get to this particular story we

908
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 1: covered in the past, Pro Publica did a whole expose

909
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: a on this company real page and their software which

910
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:28,879
Speaker 1: is called yield Star, and they brag about how they're

911
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: able to squeeze their tenants and how they're able to

912
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: effectively collude. As you said, So what happens is all

913
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: of these landlord companies, you know, they buy access to

914
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 1: the yield Star software. Part of that is they have

915
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,919
Speaker 1: to enter in all of their information, so yield Star

916
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,919
Speaker 1: has all of this non public information and then they

917
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: use that to algorithmically, algorithmically maximize the amount of profit

918
00:41:55,719 --> 00:42:00,040
Speaker 1: by setting the rents for these companies. So rather and

919
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 1: then the individual you know, you go to rent an

920
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,720
Speaker 1: apartment or whatever, and the individual property manager is setting

921
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 1: the rents based on what they can tell of the

922
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: market and what will sustain and also based on that

923
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 1: like human interaction of I don't want to price this

924
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: person out of a home. Instead of that, they use

925
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: an algorithm that has all of this non public information.

926
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: So the allegation here is that this is price fixing

927
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: because you have even though there's like this intermediary, this

928
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: tech intermediary, you still have the reality of all of

929
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: these companies colluding with their private information to be able

930
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: to maximize and set rents.

931
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 4: At the highest possible price.

932
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,359
Speaker 1: And in markets where this becomes incredibly dominant, you have

933
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:46,800
Speaker 1: this one company setting the rents for basically the entire

934
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 1: market with disastrous results for tenants. What's interesting, too, is

935
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: one of the main architects behind yield Star this isn't

936
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: his first trip to the price fixing rodeo. He apparently

937
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: was Alaska Airlines director of revenue Management. Reading from pro

938
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 1: publican now, when it and other major airlines began developing

939
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 1: price stting software in the nineteen eighties, they had to

940
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 1: enter into a consent decree to unwind this price fixing

941
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: scheme that they had there. He moved on from that

942
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: to apparently price fixing in the apartment market rental market,

943
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: because he has so much experience in that direction. But

944
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: just to give you a sense of some of what

945
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: they were saying about this software and what it does,

946
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 1: one of the people involved said, the net effect of

947
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: driving revenue and pushing people out, meaning pushing them out

948
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: of the apartment, was ten million dollars in income. I

949
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,240
Speaker 1: think that shows keeping the heads in the beds above

950
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: all else is not always the best strategy. What they're

951
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: alluding to there is the fact that they found, through

952
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: this algorithm and through their price fixing ability, that it

953
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: was actually more profitable for a lot of apartment complexes

954
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 1: to set prices so high that they actually had some vacancies,

955
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: that they pushed people out in this person's words, and

956
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,439
Speaker 1: didn't keep the heads in the beds all for maximizing

957
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 1: absolute revenue. And they also to point to the fact

958
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: that when it is you know, a human being who

959
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: was sending these setting these rents and providing the incentives

960
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 1: and the brakes, et cetera, that they find it difficult

961
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:21,720
Speaker 1: to be as cold hearted as profit maximization would demand.

962
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 1: So it's a significant issue. I think they are one

963
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: hundred percent correct. The DOJ actually weighed in on this,

964
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: which I found really interesting too. They said they filed

965
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 1: a statement in support of these tenets. They said automating

966
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 1: an anti competitive scheme does not make it less anti competitive.

967
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 4: Specifically, the FED said.

968
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 1: That algorithms themselves are not illegal to use, but rather

969
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: the way it was being used, with competitors knowingly combining

970
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 1: their sensitive non public pricing and supply information in an

971
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 1: algorithm they rely upon in making pricing decisions with the

972
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,839
Speaker 1: knowledge and expectation that other competitors will do the same.

973
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 1: That signal signals to me if the Biden DOJ is

974
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: paying attention to this, that they may have a bigger

975
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: problem than just this Arizona tendancy.

976
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 3: Well, I would certainly hope.

977
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 2: So there's also some state by state legislation we can

978
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 2: put C three pleas up on the screen.

979
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,760
Speaker 3: The Colorado actually now has.

980
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 2: A bill that's just been introduced to prevent landlords from

981
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,720
Speaker 2: using algorithms to scent rent. They say that currently, quote,

982
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 2: renting an apartment in Metro Denver has become so difficult

983
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 2: for the average the average person that the state lawmakers

984
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 2: are now trying to prevent these landlords from using the

985
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 2: real page yield star or the yard revenue IQ to

986
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 2: fix that market to their disadvantage. The law seeks to

987
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 2: broadly define a prohibited algorithmic device that says one or

988
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,319
Speaker 2: more algorithms to perform calculations of data, and then if

989
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 2: a landlord is found to have used as prevented device,

990
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 2: it would allow Tennis to take civil action. Now, I

991
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 2: think one of those things, one of the things I

992
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 2: come back to is with this is that it really

993
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 2: does come down to entering that non public information because

994
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 2: if you think about it, if you go on MLS

995
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 2: data or apartments, dot com, Zillo or whatever, you can

996
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 2: see what the rental market around you is. This is

997
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 2: about getting it before it actually is rent and is

998
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 2: making it less of a guessing game, and then also

999
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 2: making sure that nobody can undercut your competition.

1000
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 3: So it really does.

1001
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 2: Enter in the realm of collusion and takes away that,

1002
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 2: you know, kind of free market aspect of what the

1003
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 2: rental market kind of should be, which is people kind

1004
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 2: of guessing and thinking and looking.

1005
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 3: Around their local area.

1006
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 2: One of the strengths that people always talk about with

1007
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 2: small local landlords is that their you know, community members

1008
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 2: whatever is that they're you know, one to five properties

1009
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 2: something like that, and it's not the resources of a

1010
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 2: giant corporation, which is what you should be afraid of.

1011
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,720
Speaker 2: But this effectively kind of makes them a lobbying block

1012
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,240
Speaker 2: and a price fixing cartel, which is what we should

1013
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 2: be afraid of in the first place. As to why

1014
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 2: I oppose corporate you know, most corporate land ownership in

1015
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 2: general whenever it comes to rental tenants, because they just

1016
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 2: try and squeeze every single dollar there is.

1017
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 6: Out of you.

1018
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and this goes beyond that, even because part

1019
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: of the allegation here is that because you have, especially

1020
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: in certain cities, you have the overwhelming bulk of the

1021
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 1: market participating in this scheme, they are all they are

1022
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: effectively acting as a cartel. And the way that works

1023
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 1: is you've set a price arbitrarily high, and you have

1024
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: this agreement that no one's going to come and undercut,

1025
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: because what would bust this up in a typical free

1026
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: market if someone comes in season market opportunities like oh well,

1027
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 1: I can undercut these people with a lower price, I

1028
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 1: can fill out my apartments much more easily and so

1029
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: and then that you know, causes them to have a

1030
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: problem with their own buildings. If you have them all

1031
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: participating in this scheme, then you've got everybody sort of

1032
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 1: like agreeing to charge these high prices and no one

1033
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:34,280
Speaker 1: undercutting them and causing a problem for their cartel price

1034
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: fixing algorithmic scheme. That's the allegation here. So it is

1035
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: encouraging to see a little bit of pushback in a

1036
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: few different states. Hopefully this will be a model for

1037
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: the country. And to your point, Sager, listen, one of

1038
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 1: the bright spots in the Biden administration has certainly been

1039
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 1: the focus on anti trust. You know, there have been

1040
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 1: some really great appointments like Lenacon who've been much more

1041
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 1: a grassive and trying to sort of not reimagine but

1042
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 1: actually restore actual anti true trust and push from the

1043
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: government and break up some of these large monopolies that

1044
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 1: have so dominated our economy. We know, we've seen the

1045
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: energy around house. I mean, it's obvious the pricing of rents,

1046
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: the pricing of homes, how much pain this is for

1047
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 1: everybody at a variety of income levels. This would be

1048
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: a great thing for the Biden administration to lean into

1049
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 1: and talk up and really do something about, because I

1050
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: think this particular case will really be a trial balloon

1051
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: of if they're able to succeed at the judicial level

1052
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: proving that this is anti competitive behavior.

1053
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we'll see story. They're definitely very interested in.

1054
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 2: I know it impacts a lot of you guys out there.

1055
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 2: You know, rent inflation is one of the biggest drivers

1056
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,399
Speaker 2: of overall CPI, and it's one of the problem things

1057
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,800
Speaker 2: that has a huge issue in terms of stuck in

1058
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 2: your money away your savings rate and all that. I know,

1059
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 2: it's really really difficult out there, so we'll continue to

1060
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 2: track it. We broke down the news for everybody yesterday

1061
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 2: about the Supreme Court decision. The TLDR is that the

1062
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 2: Supreme Court ruled nine to zero unanimously the Colorado wrongly

1063
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 2: took Donald Trump off of the ballot by claiming that

1064
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 2: they had violated the Fourteenth Amendment. The split decision was

1065
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 2: five to four, where the majority, the slim majority of

1066
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 2: the court ruled that in the future, any process that

1067
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 2: would lead to the removal of a candidate from about

1068
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 2: must come from specifically congressional action, as in, they had

1069
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 2: to pass a law as they lay out in the

1070
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 2: fourteenth Amendment, that lays out the exact candidate, the qualifications,

1071
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 2: the types, and the rules as to which would govern

1072
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 2: it that currently does not exists as we understand it.

1073
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:41,720
Speaker 3: So this kind of punched the ball to Congress.

1074
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 2: The dissent came from all of the liberal justices, where

1075
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 2: the three justices said that they should have narrowly considered

1076
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 2: the Colorado question and not set a new standard.

1077
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 3: And then Amy Coney Barrett, as I.

1078
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 2: Understand it, yeah, didn't join the liberal dissent, but didn't

1079
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 2: join the majority opinion either.

1080
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 3: So I don't it was.

1081
00:49:57,880 --> 00:49:58,800
Speaker 4: Her thing was weird.

1082
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 1: I don't even I don't understan but it was basically

1083
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: like she actually agreed with the liberals that the decision

1084
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:05,959
Speaker 1: which went far too far.

1085
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:08,240
Speaker 4: But then her whole thing.

1086
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 1: Was like, but what we really should talk about is

1087
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:11,800
Speaker 1: how we came to a unanimous decision.

1088
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,720
Speaker 4: That's what's really important. It's like what it was weird.

1089
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 3: You could tell she was a mom of seven, because

1090
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:17,280
Speaker 3: that's like a very mom.

1091
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 4: It was a very moment.

1092
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: That's so true, Like we all came together. Let's just

1093
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: focus on the positive here eyes.

1094
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 3: Well, thanks boy. Yeah, usually not the right answer anyway.

1095
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 2: So immediately though, that sparked panic and responses here in Washington.

1096
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 2: The most noteworthy was won by Congressman Jamie Raskin, who

1097
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 2: said he will immediately join with several others to introduce

1098
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:39,959
Speaker 2: legislation in the House of Representatives to bar Donald Trump

1099
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 2: the ballot.

1100
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:41,280
Speaker 3: Let's take a lesson.

1101
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 8: I am working with a number of my colleagues, including

1102
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 8: Wi Wasserman Schultz and Eric Swalwell, to revive legislation that

1103
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 8: we had to set up a process by which we

1104
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 8: could determine that someone who committed insurrection is disqualified by

1105
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 8: section three the fourteenth Amendment. And the House of Representatives

1106
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 8: already impeached Donald Trump for participating in insurrection by inciting it,

1107
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 8: so the House is already pronounced upon that.

1108
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 2: Interesting, So Jamie Raskin has introducing the bill here obviously,

1109
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 2: he says that he's joining with who is at Eric

1110
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 2: Swollwell and a few others Tank Creases. Now this may

1111
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 2: be a hot take that people wouldn't expect this, but

1112
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 2: you know what, it's through the normal legislative channel.

1113
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 3: I mean, first of all, it doesn't have a chance

1114
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 3: in house. It doesn't really matter.

1115
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 2: But hey, it's keeping with the procedure that was laid

1116
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 2: out by the Supreme Court.

1117
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 3: So I say, go for it.

1118
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I actually I saw a bunch of

1119
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,919
Speaker 1: concerns like freaking out or maybe it was like they're

1120
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: just literally doing what the Supreme Court to them to do.

1121
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: So I didn't see why there was such a like

1122
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: thing about this particular as you said, I mean, listen,

1123
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 1: we should see this basically as a messaging bill.

1124
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 4: There's no expect they don't.

1125
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,800
Speaker 1: Have control of the House, they don't have a filibuster

1126
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 1: proof majority in the Senate, so this is not going

1127
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:54,399
Speaker 1: anywhere anytime soon. But it was directly responsive to the

1128
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I saw.

1129
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 2: Hey, thank you, Jamie Raskin. You know why you're following

1130
00:51:58,600 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 2: what the court told you to do.

1131
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 3: Go for it. That's the democratic process.

1132
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 2: You can introduce it in the House, you ask you

1133
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 2: debate it, they can bring it to the floor if

1134
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 2: you want, you can send it over to the Senate.

1135
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 4: Crystal Marry, I'm sure Mike Johnson will get right on that.

1136
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 2: So might wrong the you need two thirds as ascribed

1137
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 2: by the Amendment.

1138
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: That's the only thing now, because well, I mean, this

1139
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,320
Speaker 1: gets into the ruling itself, which in my opinion was

1140
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,760
Speaker 1: kind of bullshit, especially this aspect of it, because okay,

1141
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: so they based this, you know, this reading that, oh, well,

1142
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 1: this has to go through Congress, and that's the process.

1143
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:30,800
Speaker 1: They based it on the last line in the amendment,

1144
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 1: section three of the fourteenth Amendment, where it says Congress may,

1145
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: by a vote of two thirds of each House, remove

1146
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:42,359
Speaker 1: such a disability. The amendment doesn't say anything about Congress

1147
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 1: being the body that has to affirm the disability. They

1148
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 1: just made that up because, I mean, that's how the

1149
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 1: court system works.

1150
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:51,319
Speaker 4: It's not surprising to me.

1151
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 1: It was exactly what I thought that they would do,

1152
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 1: because they're cowards and they didn't want to be the

1153
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: ones like responsible for upending the election whatever, and they

1154
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 1: also wanted to sort of just like settle this question.

1155
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 4: And push it off.

1156
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 1: And so they've made it so that even in a

1157
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: scenario where someone Donald Trump or someone else was actually

1158
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 1: found guilty of insurrection.

1159
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 4: Through a jury of their peers through the.

1160
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 1: Criminal justice system, that that doesn't count so long as

1161
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 1: they have enough of a political majority to block this

1162
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: sort of legislation. So No, two thirds isn't prescribed. Two

1163
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 1: thirds only has to do with removing the ban. There's

1164
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: literally nothing in the amendment about affirming the ban, which is,

1165
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: you know, part of why this went through the court system.

1166
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 2: I'm not a legal scholar, I'm not a federal society

1167
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:39,240
Speaker 2: any person, so I can only speak to the politics.

1168
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 2: But I support this one percent. And I'll tell you

1169
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 2: which is that. That was my laptop charger.

1170
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 3: Sorry, I will say that.

1171
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,479
Speaker 2: It's all the question for all time, and I'm happy

1172
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:51,840
Speaker 2: about that because enough of this nonsense, like we can't

1173
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 2: have competing.

1174
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 3: Decision of insurrection and what is it and is it not?

1175
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,280
Speaker 2: I mean, for you know, it's a genuine democratic question,

1176
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:01,319
Speaker 2: as happened after.

1177
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 3: The Civil War.

1178
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 2: If you go back to our original debate on the

1179
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 2: subject after the Civil War, if you serve for the

1180
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 2: Confederate States of America, you cannot serve in government unless

1181
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 2: you are removed by the unless that disability is removed

1182
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 2: as it was in eighteen seventy six record in the

1183
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 2: history I have here in front of me that you

1184
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 2: can no longer serve great It's simple. Do you serve

1185
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 2: in the Confederate States Army. Did you fight and take

1186
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 2: up rebellion against the government here? I mean, it's not

1187
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 2: really clear. You know, we don't have a real congressional

1188
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 2: legal standard. Is what is an insurrection?

1189
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 3: What is is riot? As an insurrection is over is

1190
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:33,480
Speaker 3: it a coup d'etar the're trying to overthrow? The governments?

1191
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 2: Are like genuine democratic questions that need to be resolved

1192
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 2: through the democratic process, either by voting or through Congress.

1193
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 2: Now is Congress, you know, broken and inefficient? Yeah, it

1194
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 2: was in eighteen seventy two too. It has been for

1195
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 2: two hundred some years. So for me, I'm happy because

1196
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 2: I'm sick of all of this like fake interpretation of

1197
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 2: the fourteenth Amendment or whatever.

1198
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 3: Nobody knows. It's like we are none of us are

1199
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:55,240
Speaker 3: lawyers or others.

1200
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 2: The Court, i think correctly kicked it to Congress and said,

1201
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:00,359
Speaker 2: you guys, figure it out.

1202
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 3: What is insurrection? What's not insurrection?

1203
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 2: And if you can't figure it out, then we're going

1204
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 2: to air on the side of democracy, which is what

1205
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 2: it is.

1206
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 3: I mean, come on, these you know, these courts.

1207
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 2: What's some freaking DC Appellate Court is going to set

1208
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 2: the stand for President of the United States.

1209
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 3: That's nuts. That's just as nuts as the Texas.

1210
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 2: Fifth the what's it called the Fifth Circuit that made

1211
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 2: that crazy ruling. What am I thinking about the abortion pill?

1212
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 2: Minifit press drone something like that? So whatever, all right,

1213
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 2: people can look it up. The Texas abortion judge who

1214
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 2: can just say, oh, this one abortion pill is outlawed?

1215
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 3: That's bullshit. You can't have national policy that's like that.

1216
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,320
Speaker 2: So anyway, for me, you can't allow the legal system

1217
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 2: to weigh in on some high it's a highly important

1218
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 2: democratic question of who can run for president.

1219
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 3: Of the npser.

1220
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: I will remind you that states have the power and

1221
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:47,879
Speaker 1: that was affirmed in this decision. Yeah, to decide who's

1222
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:49,839
Speaker 1: eligible for the ballot based on all of the other

1223
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:53,840
Speaker 1: constitutional requirements. So I don't really see how this is different.

1224
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 1: But I mean, listen, like I said, it's not a

1225
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 1: legal decision, it's a political decision. It's a political I

1226
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 1: support them because the decision like, oh, we're going to

1227
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 1: come up with this process. They try to ground it

1228
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,800
Speaker 1: because they have their you know, bullshit originalists like cloak

1229
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 1: that they put on whenever it's convenient for them, and

1230
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:12,879
Speaker 1: they immediately take it off when it's not convenient for them,

1231
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 1: So they try to ground it in this last line

1232
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 1: of the amendment, which says nothing. The amendment says nothing

1233
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: about the process by which you determine whether someone engaged

1234
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 1: in insurrection or not.

1235
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:29,919
Speaker 4: They don't say that. They just talk about, okay, well.

1236
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 1: If someone is found to an engagement insurrection is removing

1237
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:35,839
Speaker 1: the ballot. Here's how you can override that through two

1238
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: thirds vote in Congress. So they try to use that

1239
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:40,879
Speaker 1: to say, oh, well, that must mean that they meant

1240
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 1: that Congress doesn't charge the whole Well, it doesn't say that,

1241
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 1: so I mean, it's completely invented. Let's just be clear

1242
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 1: about that. It's this is the way they wanted to

1243
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 1: resolve it. They wanted to resolve the question. They did

1244
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:52,399
Speaker 1: not want to have, you know, the idea of someone

1245
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:54,719
Speaker 1: being kicked off the ballot and like really resting on them.

1246
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 1: And I'm talking about the conservatives and the liberals now

1247
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:58,760
Speaker 1: at this point, they didn't want that in their hands.

1248
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 1: They're fundamentally basically cowards. They always look for like the

1249
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 1: you know, the least sort of bombshell thing they can

1250
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 1: do outside of the abortion decision. But that was a

1251
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: long time coming and a sort of a different deal,

1252
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. And so they invented this process

1253
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 1: that isn't actually grounded either in the history or the

1254
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: text or the way that this thing has been used.

1255
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 4: Before they invented it.

1256
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: So listen, like I said, am I surprised, no, because

1257
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 1: I think almost all their decisions are basically political in

1258
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 1: their interests, based on their ideology or based on their present,

1259
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 1: their desire to preserve the legitimacy of the court, et cetera.

1260
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: So they invented this process, and it is now what

1261
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 1: it is.

1262
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 3: I will grant you that there is no basis for this.

1263
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 2: Okay, there's no history with any And I am not

1264
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 2: an originals.

1265
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 3: I am not a textualist, you know any of this.

1266
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 2: Like also the legal Frankly, when my friends who are

1267
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 2: lawyers talk like this, my eyes completely glaze over. I

1268
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 2: can only speak to the political question. I think it

1269
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 2: was a good political decision. Obviously, I see enough why.

1270
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 4: I just don't see why.

1271
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 1: Go going through Congress, which is obviously I mean that's

1272
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 1: the definition of a political body. Why that's superior to

1273
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 1: going through like to saying you know, okay, it has

1274
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: to go through the court system and someone has to

1275
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 1: be found guilty of insurrection by a jury of their

1276
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 1: peers like it.

1277
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 4: That's a piece where I'm like, I don't.

1278
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 1: See why they settled on this versus you know, some

1279
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 1: other standard. Again, they just sort of invented it because

1280
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 1: at bottom, because they know this will never happen. They

1281
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 1: know that there's no chance that this Congress is going

1282
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 1: to come anywhere close to, you know, deeming that Donald

1283
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 1: Trump or anyone else for that matter, engaged in an insurrection,

1284
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 1: So they can kill the idea that this is relevant,

1285
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: even though if you read the plain text of this,

1286
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 1: if it applies to anyone, it applies to Donald J.

1287
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 4: Trump.

1288
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 1: They can avoid having to actually make a decision on

1289
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:50,959
Speaker 1: whether he engaged in insurrection. They can kick the can

1290
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: to another body. But they can also effectively kill, you know,

1291
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 1: the possibility that this is relevant at all, but with

1292
00:58:58,200 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 1: their hands staying clean.

1293
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 2: So that's why they do This is where I'm doing

1294
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 2: part because I don't see the clear insurrection or any

1295
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 2: of that in there at all. I think that the

1296
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 2: Amendment was written for a very specific purpose to bar

1297
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 2: people who were genuine traders who took up arms against

1298
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 2: their country in the United States Civil War, and then

1299
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 2: to make sure that they couldn't serve in government and

1300
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 2: recreate the Jim Crow South.

1301
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 3: Oops had happened anyways, But the.

1302
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 2: Point is is that that was the point by the

1303
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 2: radical Congress that passed the fourteenth Amendment. I think we

1304
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 2: should stay within that. I think the bar should literally

1305
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 2: be that high to ban you from office. I think

1306
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 2: you should basically have taken up arms against your country,

1307
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 2: fought and killed your own countrymen, sold them out, and

1308
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 2: literally fought for a rival army, as these Joe's gentlemen

1309
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 2: did against the Confederates. Other than that, it's up to

1310
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 2: the people, and you guys get to decide. That's say

1311
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 2: for the ballot.

1312
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 4: It doesn't say treason.

1313
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: It doesn't even say it says you can have engaged

1314
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 1: in insurrection or rebellion, or given aid or comfort to

1315
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 1: the enemies thereof I mean, listen, he tried to overturn

1316
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 1: a democratic election. You know, all of the election maneuvering

1317
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 1: behind the scenes. There's a reason why even Trump's lawyers

1318
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 1: didn't try to make the case that he didn't engage

1319
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 1: in insurrection and had nothing to do with any of it.

1320
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 1: So in addition, you know, yes, that was the context

1321
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 1: that this was originally put into place, but it is

1322
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 1: not the only context in which it has been used.

1323
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 1: So I don't accept that this is just like, you know,

1324
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 1: some dead piece of the Constitution has no relevance going

1325
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 1: forward post Civil War. I don't think that makes any

1326
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:21,160
Speaker 1: logical sense.

1327
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 3: I don't think it's dead.

1328
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 2: I think if people want to figure out what rises

1329
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 2: to the barrier of the US Civil War, you are

1330
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 2: welcome to pass a law through Congress in which we

1331
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 2: will all commonly understand, as united people, was an act

1332
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 2: of such terrible you know, taking up arms against our government.

1333
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 3: That we will bar you. Otherwise, leave it to the

1334
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 3: people and they can decide.

1335
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 2: You know, if enough people agree with you on January sixth,

1336
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,600
Speaker 2: as some did on twenty twenty two, don't vote for Trump,

1337
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 2: be my guest.

1338
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 3: It's a free country.

1339
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 2: I mean, that's really what it comes down to in

1340
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 2: this particular instance. And again, this is why the history

1341
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:52,920
Speaker 2: of it matters. I think you're engaging in a bit

1342
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 2: of textualism. Is the reason that they had to pass

1343
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 2: this is that the South was unreconstructed, and they would

1344
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 2: have reelected and traders to basically they would have re

1345
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:07,680
Speaker 2: elected genuine traders and unreconstructed Southerners to represent them in

1346
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 2: the Congress and then to use their senatorial and congressional

1347
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 2: ability to block rights for freed slaves in the South.

1348
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 3: That was the actual intent of this entire thing.

1349
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 2: So that's again where we have to kind of raise

1350
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 2: the bar to for what we assume where we should

1351
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 2: come to the point where no government or all governments

1352
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 2: representative should do their absolute best and not stand in

1353
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 2: the way of democracy and allow it to ultimately flourish

1354
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 2: for the people. And I don't think that anything Trump

1355
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 2: has done has ever risen to the level of literally

1356
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 2: taking the armor nowhere.

1357
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 1: But nowhere in here does it say that it has

1358
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 1: to well in nor does it say like the bar

1359
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 1: is the Civil War and anything below that doesn't count

1360
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 1: doesn't say any of that. I mean, you know, they're

1361
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 1: very intentional about the way that they wrote and conceived of,

1362
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 1: you know, these various parts of the Constitution. So you know,

1363
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 1: I am very reluctant to put limits on who can

1364
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 1: run for office.

1365
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 4: This is why I pose the term even term limits.

1366
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:07,920
Speaker 1: Like you know, I think if people want to elect

1367
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 1: some deadbeat congressman for thirty five terms and who's you know,

1368
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 1: getting wheeled in a wheelchair. Like, I think that we

1369
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 1: should have democratic mechanisms so people have better understanding of

1370
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:18,200
Speaker 1: what that means. I think we should have money on

1371
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 1: a politics so there's not such an incumbency advantage of

1372
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 1: just like corporations flooding their campaign coffers so they're there forever.

1373
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 1: But I support the right of the people to vote

1374
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 1: for that. For again, one hundred and ten year old,

1375
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 1: who's like sobering on themselves if that's what they want. Okay,

1376
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 1: unpopular opinion, but that's how I feel. I don't think

1377
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:37,000
Speaker 1: we should have age limits in the Constitution, either either

1378
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 1: at the higher end or at the lower end. I

1379
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:42,720
Speaker 1: think I believe fundamentally in that democratic process. To me,

1380
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 1: this is an exception because I do think that the

1381
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 1: country has an interest in banning from office people who

1382
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 1: actively seek to undermine the basic tenants of that country,

1383
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 1: and I think that's what Donald Trump did. So again, listen,

1384
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 1: I'm not surprised by the decision. I do think that

1385
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 1: the legal questions involved were very complex, But you know,

1386
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 1: part of why they crafted the decision the way that

1387
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 1: they did, they kicked it to a body that they

1388
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:10,280
Speaker 1: know is not is going to be unable to act.

1389
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 1: Is because if you read this on its face, a

1390
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: lot of people are going to feel this applies to

1391
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. They didn't want to deal with that messiness,

1392
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 1: so they effectively punted. And that's where we are as

1393
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,680
Speaker 1: a political decision. They made up the criteria here, and

1394
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 1: that's the rest.

1395
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 3: That's the problem. You could use that against anything a

1396
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 3: political understanding.

1397
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 2: You could say that any Democrat who didn't vote to

1398
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:33,600
Speaker 2: certify the election in twenty sixteen engage in the same

1399
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 2: sort of behavior, and I would not approached that. I

1400
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 2: want those people to run. I want the bar to

1401
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 2: be so incredibly high. If you believe that Trump is bad,

1402
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 2: then for a vote against him, you know it's your right.

1403
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 3: As this says.

1404
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:44,440
Speaker 2: And I got to disagree on the age lines though,

1405
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 2: because it's in the Constitution in terms of how young

1406
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 2: you got to be.

1407
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 1: So at that point, people who's to January sixth, it's

1408
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:52,320
Speaker 1: fine to run for office. But if you're like, you know,

1409
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 1: twenty four or whatever, people want to vote for you,

1410
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 1: that's not okay.

1411
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 3: Well no, I don't think it's okay.

1412
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 2: I think it's in the Constitution and so clearly the

1413
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 2: framers or whatever you know, going to.

1414
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 3: Spit a little bit.

1415
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 4: Okay, but we're talking about what should be.

1416
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, I would have put it on philosophical grounds.

1417
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 2: Wouldn't support it, Yeah, I would not. That said, now,

1418
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:10,360
Speaker 2: given where we are with age, it's a little bit

1419
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 2: more complicated, especially with a captured political system where we

1420
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 2: are right now. In terms of mental faculties, I mean

1421
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 2: this gets still like all basic fundamental questions like driver's licenses.

1422
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 3: Should people who are over eighty be allowed to drive? Honestly,

1423
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 3: I think the answer should be no or use.

1424
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 4: I think it depends on capability.

1425
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 3: I've seen too many of these. I've seen too many.

1426
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:31,360
Speaker 4: Of these folks, eight year olds down there all right.

1427
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 2: Listen, I think they should well, at the very least,

1428
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 2: they should be subjected to a very very strenuous test,

1429
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 2: and we as a people should be like actually accept

1430
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:40,640
Speaker 2: and think about what that should look like. Basically, every

1431
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 2: year after seventy two you're asked us to go to

1432
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 2: the DMV and you need to retry. And that's the

1433
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 2: thing is that there are you know, complicated questions here

1434
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 2: also in terms of public safety and like your impact

1435
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 2: on others. Now, I generally err on the side of democracy.

1436
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 2: But if we're going to have age limits, like you said,

1437
01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:58,479
Speaker 2: for what is it twenty five? I think for the House, Yeah,

1438
01:04:58,640 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 2: what is it thirty?

1439
01:04:59,640 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 8: For this?

1440
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:02,440
Speaker 3: It thirty five for president, which I think is actually

1441
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 3: too low.

1442
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:05,400
Speaker 4: But you think that's too low, way too high.

1443
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:07,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think it should be. I don't really

1444
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:09,200
Speaker 2: think there should be anything there at all. My point

1445
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 2: is that if we're going to have that, then I

1446
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 2: don't think it's really fair at all that we don't

1447
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:12,840
Speaker 2: have old ones.

1448
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 4: I don't think we should have any of them.

1449
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:19,480
Speaker 1: I also agree with Jank that naturalized citizens should have

1450
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:22,440
Speaker 1: the right to run for president the United States, and

1451
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 1: Jank's argument on it is you know, does have some

1452
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:30,280
Speaker 1: legal basis, but putting aside the legal argument, because there

1453
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 1: was a court ruling that basically said naturalized citizens should

1454
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:35,920
Speaker 1: have all the rights of natural born citizens and to

1455
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:40,000
Speaker 1: not do so is discriminatory. So using that basis, you

1456
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:43,120
Speaker 1: can then say, you know, this interpretation is you know,

1457
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:44,560
Speaker 1: is illegal or unconstitutional.

1458
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 4: But putting aside the legal.

1459
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:49,280
Speaker 1: Questions, which I'm admittedly no expert on whatsoever, I think

1460
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:51,240
Speaker 1: just as a matter of principle, I do think that

1461
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:52,960
Speaker 1: they should be able to run for office. I think

1462
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:54,720
Speaker 1: Jank should be able to run for a president if

1463
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:57,400
Speaker 1: you want so. Again, this is all just to say

1464
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:01,280
Speaker 1: I am reluctant to put limits on who people can

1465
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 1: vote for and limiting their democratic choices, I think is

1466
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 1: a big promise. Part of why, you know, I have

1467
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 1: an issue with the two party system and the fact

1468
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 1: that our choices are so constraints. Why I have an

1469
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:12,320
Speaker 1: issue with money in politics, the way that constraine choices,

1470
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:15,080
Speaker 1: et cetera. But in this instance, I do think that

1471
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 1: the state really does have an interest in keeping people

1472
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:24,480
Speaker 1: from high office who actively subvert the basic principles of

1473
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:26,040
Speaker 1: the country, which is why I support this.

1474
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:29,080
Speaker 2: But you know, obviously, see where where we are, we're

1475
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:31,480
Speaker 2: not even disagreement. We're only an agreement on disagreement on

1476
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:33,600
Speaker 2: the standard and through which the Megan is okay something

1477
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 2: that should be.

1478
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 3: On okay debates.

1479
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:39,320
Speaker 2: Aside, there's still been quite a bit of a liberal

1480
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:42,000
Speaker 2: media meltdown that we've seen. The view, of course, can

1481
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 2: always be promised to have a good reaction. Let's take

1482
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:45,920
Speaker 2: a lesson welcome back.

1483
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 11: You know, the thing that bothers me about this, and

1484
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 11: I know it's probably the right decision, but I don't

1485
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 11: like that we've normalized this man. Yeah, it has really

1486
01:06:57,040 --> 01:07:02,479
Speaker 11: irritated the pool atomy. Yeah, that we have normalized him

1487
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 11: and his bad behavior. I get that the law says, listen,

1488
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 11: it would be really rough and it should be the

1489
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 11: Congress that makes these decisions. And yet that's not how

1490
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 11: we've been acting. We keep saying stage laws would keep

1491
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:19,080
Speaker 11: giving people the right to make these changes, and then

1492
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:21,400
Speaker 11: they make a change and they said, well, we don't

1493
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 11: want this, and everybody says, well, no, of course, we

1494
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:24,280
Speaker 11: shouldn't want this.

1495
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:27,320
Speaker 3: But the problem is, why have we normalized?

1496
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:30,600
Speaker 12: Look, if Joe Biden had one count against him, not

1497
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 12: ninety one, he could not be the Democratic presidential candidate.

1498
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 12: If Joe Biden had committed sexual assault and we had

1499
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:40,520
Speaker 12: heard him, he could not be running for president. If

1500
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:43,440
Speaker 12: Joe Biden had been found liable for sexual assault to

1501
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:45,520
Speaker 12: the two of eighty three million dollars, he could not

1502
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:48,479
Speaker 12: be running for president. If Joe Biden had been found

1503
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:51,200
Speaker 12: liable for half a million dollars for fraud, he could

1504
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 12: not be the Democratic candidate for president.

1505
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 2: You can't you can you can always count on these ladies.

1506
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:57,600
Speaker 2: Chris and I were talking while that clip was praying,

1507
01:07:57,640 --> 01:07:58,479
Speaker 2: and we're like, do we.

1508
01:07:58,440 --> 01:07:59,919
Speaker 3: Know what trying?

1509
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:01,840
Speaker 4: I don't really totally understand that.

1510
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:04,680
Speaker 3: Totally totally indecipherable to me.

1511
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:07,200
Speaker 2: I do love her outfit, though, it's very like California

1512
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:10,480
Speaker 2: vineyard energy. That's that irritates the pooh out of me.

1513
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:13,160
Speaker 2: Is just just too good. Yeah, I don't know. I

1514
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 2: don't know what else to say. It's just it is

1515
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:17,559
Speaker 2: funny to me to see the way that these ladies react.

1516
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:19,280
Speaker 2: And there was also Chris, I don't know if you

1517
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:21,360
Speaker 2: saw this. There should genuinely be a little bit of

1518
01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:24,439
Speaker 2: a scandal happening. From a legal perspective. The number of

1519
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:28,240
Speaker 2: people who are quote unquote respected legal scholars who predicted

1520
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 2: Nino in the opposite direction or who said that the

1521
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:33,599
Speaker 2: case was very good, people like David French or some

1522
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:36,240
Speaker 2: of the guys in the Atlantic Federalist Society and others,

1523
01:08:36,360 --> 01:08:39,519
Speaker 2: is kind of astounding, actually, because the game the Court

1524
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:40,360
Speaker 2: went against them.

1525
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:43,880
Speaker 1: I didn't really see people predicting the Supreme Court would

1526
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:48,320
Speaker 1: actually uphold it. I saw several very possible I didn't

1527
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 1: see that. But what I saw war is people basically

1528
01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:52,080
Speaker 1: making the case that.

1529
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:54,519
Speaker 4: They should uphold it, which is different.

1530
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 3: I agree with you right.

1531
01:08:55,360 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 1: Versus a prediction of what's actually going to happen. I mean,

1532
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:00,000
Speaker 1: that's my position. I think they should have uphold it

1533
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:02,960
Speaker 1: uppeld it. But I was under no illusion whatsoever that

1534
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:06,400
Speaker 1: that would happen. But you know what I take. So

1535
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 1: first of all, let me comment on the specifics of

1536
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:10,720
Speaker 1: their comments. It's interesting, Woody says, Lissa is probably the

1537
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:12,439
Speaker 1: right decision. Then she goes on to make some point

1538
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:14,160
Speaker 1: about the states in the Congra that I.

1539
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:14,680
Speaker 4: Didn't really get.

1540
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 1: And then you had Anna and Navarro make a point

1541
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:21,000
Speaker 1: which is partially accurate that I do think it's true

1542
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:23,719
Speaker 1: Trump gets away with things that literally no other politician

1543
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:25,880
Speaker 1: in curing Joe Biden with I mean, she is right

1544
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:28,560
Speaker 1: that listen, Joe Biden has faced his own incredible allegations

1545
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:30,120
Speaker 1: of sexual assault that should have been taken a lot

1546
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 1: more seriously at the time and should continue to be

1547
01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 1: taken a lot more seriously. But if he was actually

1548
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:39,880
Speaker 1: found liable for sexual assault, even in a civil case,

1549
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:41,320
Speaker 1: that would.

1550
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:43,920
Speaker 4: Be a huge deal. We would never hear the end

1551
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:44,240
Speaker 4: of it.

1552
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:47,760
Speaker 1: It probably would be a deal breaker for him and

1553
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 1: most other politicians. I mean, you kind of see this

1554
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:53,679
Speaker 1: right now with Robert Menendez and these corruption charges which

1555
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:55,519
Speaker 1: look very real. And by the way, you know, one

1556
01:09:55,520 --> 01:09:57,479
Speaker 1: of the guys who's accused of basically bribing him has

1557
01:09:57,479 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 1: already pled guilty, so the writing is on the wall there.

1558
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:01,720
Speaker 1: But you know, he wasn't able to survive that, not

1559
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 1: even close. Even after being this new Jersey fixture for

1560
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:09,000
Speaker 1: so long. He immediately plummeted to like three percent in

1561
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 1: the polls once these details emerged. So it is just

1562
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:17,599
Speaker 1: true that Trump, for whatever reason, you know, his charisma

1563
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:21,439
Speaker 1: is big personality, his showmanship, whatever it is, he gets

1564
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:23,880
Speaker 1: away with stuff that other politicians don't. And it's not

1565
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 1: just Trump, I mean, you know Bill Clinton, it's the

1566
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 1: same thing. Like he had this political talent that enabled

1567
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:32,679
Speaker 1: him to get away with things that other politicians wouldn't

1568
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:34,800
Speaker 1: be able to get away with. And Joe Biden does

1569
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:37,280
Speaker 1: not have that political skill, especially not at this point

1570
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:41,400
Speaker 1: in his life. So what I sensed in this clip

1571
01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:43,519
Speaker 1: and in the next one we're going to show is

1572
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:49,120
Speaker 1: a healthy beginning of acceptance that the legal system is

1573
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:52,720
Speaker 1: not going to save the Democrats. And I actually think

1574
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 1: like that needs to be the assumption. There's been a

1575
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:58,599
Speaker 1: lot of wish casting around these polls that show, oh,

1576
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:01,479
Speaker 1: while you know, if if he's found guilty of this

1577
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:03,679
Speaker 1: or if he's found guilty of that, then this many

1578
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:06,160
Speaker 1: voters would flip to Joe Biden. They've really been betting

1579
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:11,600
Speaker 1: on that. But between this Scotus ruling and the pushback

1580
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 1: of the January sixth trial because of the Supreme Court

1581
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 1: deciding they're going to take up these immunity claims, number

1582
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:21,719
Speaker 1: of the Georgia case getting pushed back, the Florida case

1583
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:25,000
Speaker 1: getting pushed back by the judge. There, there's beginning to

1584
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:29,600
Speaker 1: creep in an awareness and understanding that they're going to

1585
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:31,360
Speaker 1: have to win this election on their own terms.

1586
01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:33,040
Speaker 4: The legal system is not going to save them.

1587
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, Trump really is like the uber mention, like the

1588
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:38,200
Speaker 2: Nietzschean uber mensh like who is immune to.

1589
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:39,759
Speaker 3: The laws of God and of man?

1590
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 2: And look, you could take that whichever way you want.

1591
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:46,639
Speaker 2: It's been deciphered ever since Nietzche wrote about it. But

1592
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:48,880
Speaker 2: my point, I think that the point that you're making

1593
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:51,200
Speaker 2: about the legal system is one that is beginning to

1594
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:54,200
Speaker 2: real is really to hit home as well. We actually

1595
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:57,439
Speaker 2: saw some of this on CNN with Larry Sabato, the Polster.

1596
01:11:57,680 --> 01:11:59,600
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen to what he said, jinning up

1597
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:01,799
Speaker 3: this insurrectionist like rhetoric.

1598
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:07,000
Speaker 13: Of course he does. He'll never change because it's worked

1599
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 13: for him and it may work again. You know, in

1600
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:14,520
Speaker 13: the end, Jim, you can't save the people from themselves.

1601
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 13: If they're determined to reelect him after he organized that insurrection,

1602
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 13: arguably our first coup deeta, then there's nothing to stop

1603
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:29,360
Speaker 13: the people from doing that. Now, in particular, the legal

1604
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 13: system may intervene, but I doubt it. He'll probably he's

1605
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:35,280
Speaker 13: certainly going to be on the ballot. He's certainly going

1606
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:38,759
Speaker 13: to be the Republican nominee. We'll know that for sure tomorrow,

1607
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:42,240
Speaker 13: if we don't already know it. And that's the way

1608
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:42,719
Speaker 13: it is.

1609
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 3: There, you go, Chrystal, that's what, that's where, that's where.

1610
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 2: I think, that is exactly the way that a lot

1611
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:50,639
Speaker 2: of people are internalizing. And because I do think there

1612
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:53,719
Speaker 2: has been quite a bit of cope and false hope

1613
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 2: and other things where people genuinely did believe that the

1614
01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:59,240
Speaker 2: legal system was going to save them. Keith Overman apparently

1615
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:01,240
Speaker 2: being one of them. This up there just because it's funny.

1616
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:03,680
Speaker 2: Can't help but take a look at what Keith has

1617
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:06,280
Speaker 2: to say. He says, the Supreme Court has betrayed democracy.

1618
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:08,519
Speaker 2: It's members, including Jackson, Cagan and Soda may Or have

1619
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:12,519
Speaker 2: proved themselves inept at reading comprehension. Collectively, the Court, in quotes,

1620
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:14,400
Speaker 2: has shown itself to be corrupt and illegitimate.

1621
01:13:14,439 --> 01:13:15,479
Speaker 3: It must be dissolved.

1622
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:18,639
Speaker 2: It's funny because there are two sides of the coin here.

1623
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:21,320
Speaker 2: I think that the Larry Saboteau one is the realm

1624
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 2: of what you continue to highlight. Is this is it

1625
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:27,519
Speaker 2: Now you're playing in the system. You have to beat him,

1626
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:30,519
Speaker 2: You actually have to try, and all the side plots

1627
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:32,640
Speaker 2: in the world they're not going to save you in

1628
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:35,960
Speaker 2: a way that I think many people have come to

1629
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:39,240
Speaker 2: believe actually the courts or any of these other systems

1630
01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:41,840
Speaker 2: would do the job for them, as opposed to the

1631
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:43,400
Speaker 2: campaign that now must be undertaken.

1632
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:46,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, especially listen, I think Biden world continues to

1633
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:50,679
Speaker 1: be extremely delusional that just you know, running against Trump

1634
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:52,639
Speaker 1: is going to be enough for them to secure victory.

1635
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:54,880
Speaker 4: So let's put that aside. But the sort of like.

1636
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 1: Liberal commentariot right now is because they've take experienced a

1637
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:01,960
Speaker 1: few blows in a row or I think starting to

1638
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:02,840
Speaker 1: grapple with that fact.

1639
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:05,639
Speaker 4: Now that may not be a permanent state of affairs,

1640
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:06,960
Speaker 4: because we do have that.

1641
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 1: New York criminal trial, the sort of stepchild charge is beginning.

1642
01:14:13,320 --> 01:14:15,760
Speaker 1: He had no offense to step children. By the way,

1643
01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:16,840
Speaker 1: I'm not going.

1644
01:14:16,840 --> 01:14:18,800
Speaker 4: To get it like canceled for that that. You're not

1645
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:19,920
Speaker 4: supposed to say that anymore.

1646
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 2: Anyway, I want to enter the Mamala debate about Kamala whatever.

1647
01:14:24,479 --> 01:14:26,040
Speaker 3: This is a whole other Well.

1648
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:27,840
Speaker 1: I thought there was a whole piece in the New

1649
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:30,080
Speaker 1: York Times about the toxic nature of.

1650
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 4: The boy mom phenomenon.

1651
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:34,320
Speaker 1: So that's another a bunch of moms like get really

1652
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:38,320
Speaker 1: into being quote unquote boy moms. And this one mom

1653
01:14:38,360 --> 01:14:41,160
Speaker 1: apparently who has a boy and a girl, posted something

1654
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:43,240
Speaker 1: that seemed to indicate that she was more into her

1655
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:45,799
Speaker 1: son than and her daughter. It sparked this whole mom

1656
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:46,919
Speaker 1: war situation.

1657
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:51,439
Speaker 2: Actually, I support that mom more anyway, make a mom

1658
01:14:51,520 --> 01:14:52,840
Speaker 2: being your whole identity, that's a.

1659
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 4: Whole I agree with that. I wholeheartedly agree with that. Anyway.

1660
01:14:56,880 --> 01:14:59,240
Speaker 1: With regards to this, I think that we may see

1661
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:01,400
Speaker 1: the resurgence of some hope that the legal system is

1662
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:02,880
Speaker 1: going to say the ones that criminal trial in New

1663
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:05,960
Speaker 1: York starts, because you know, they just can't help themselves

1664
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:08,320
Speaker 1: and there's no faith that the Biden administration, the Biden

1665
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:10,800
Speaker 1: campaign is actually up to defeating this man. So they

1666
01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:13,080
Speaker 1: got to hang their hat on something, and I guess

1667
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:18,479
Speaker 1: that's all they got, all right, guys. So a report

1668
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:21,439
Speaker 1: came out yesterday that we wanted to spend some time

1669
01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:24,960
Speaker 1: taking a look at. This was a UN report that

1670
01:15:25,160 --> 01:15:30,960
Speaker 1: sought to confirm or rebut charges of systematic rape Baijamas

1671
01:15:31,160 --> 01:15:35,280
Speaker 1: on October seventh. Obviously, it's a very fraught topic, one

1672
01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:36,439
Speaker 1: that we've delved into before.

1673
01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:38,240
Speaker 4: Before I jump in, I just want to say.

1674
01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:41,720
Speaker 1: I don't enjoy nitpicking these things, whether there was no

1675
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:44,200
Speaker 1: rape or some rape or systematic rape or whatever.

1676
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:46,680
Speaker 4: But the reason we do it.

1677
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:50,400
Speaker 1: Is because the atrocities that were committed on that day

1678
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:54,640
Speaker 1: and the inflation and invention of additional atrocities committed on

1679
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:57,960
Speaker 1: that day, have been a key part of the propaganda

1680
01:15:58,040 --> 01:16:02,960
Speaker 1: effort to justify now Israeli atrocities in Gaza.

1681
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 4: Now let me also say.

1682
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:06,920
Speaker 1: Even if all of the beheaded babies and all of

1683
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:09,280
Speaker 1: the things that were spread were actually true, it still

1684
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:13,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't justify atrocities in response. But that's the reason why

1685
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:15,880
Speaker 1: it's important to dig into these things. So in any case,

1686
01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:17,800
Speaker 1: I want to start by setting the context of what

1687
01:16:17,880 --> 01:16:20,920
Speaker 1: this report actually is and what it's not. This is

1688
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:24,360
Speaker 1: the words of the woman Pamela Patton, the Secretary General's

1689
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:27,360
Speaker 1: Special Representative on Sexual Violence and Conflicts. She was in

1690
01:16:27,439 --> 01:16:30,559
Speaker 1: charge of putting together this report. This is how she

1691
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:34,000
Speaker 1: framed what this report actually is. Let's put this up

1692
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:37,640
Speaker 1: on the screen. She said her trip into Israel to

1693
01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:42,439
Speaker 1: investigate these claims was not intended to be investigative. Other

1694
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:45,759
Speaker 1: UN agencies have that mandate, she said, but to quote

1695
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:50,240
Speaker 1: give voices to victims and survivors and find ways to

1696
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:54,000
Speaker 1: offer them support, including justice and accountability. So she says

1697
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:56,960
Speaker 1: this wasn't intended to be investigative. There are other bodies

1698
01:16:56,960 --> 01:16:59,040
Speaker 1: that have that mandate. In fact, in part of the report,

1699
01:16:59,080 --> 01:17:02,920
Speaker 1: she calls on Israel to allow those bodies to conduct

1700
01:17:02,960 --> 01:17:06,120
Speaker 1: a full investigation, which they have not done. She also

1701
01:17:06,280 --> 01:17:10,160
Speaker 1: called on them to allow a full investigation into allegations

1702
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:14,120
Speaker 1: of sexual violence directed from Israelis towards Palestinians. Of course,

1703
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:17,160
Speaker 1: Israel said no to that as well. So in any case,

1704
01:17:17,240 --> 01:17:19,360
Speaker 1: that's to set the stage for what this report actually

1705
01:17:19,479 --> 01:17:22,439
Speaker 1: is and what it is not. In addition, let's go

1706
01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:24,200
Speaker 1: ahead and put the next piece up on the screen.

1707
01:17:24,360 --> 01:17:29,720
Speaker 1: The report contains a boatload of caveats as to the

1708
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:33,840
Speaker 1: limits of what they were able to ascertain and how

1709
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:36,840
Speaker 1: much evidence quote unquote they were able to gather.

1710
01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:38,719
Speaker 4: So I'm going to read from the report.

1711
01:17:38,720 --> 01:17:40,880
Speaker 1: Bear with me, guys, you know, I want to read

1712
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:42,840
Speaker 1: from the text so that no one can you know,

1713
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:44,640
Speaker 1: so this is not being taken on a context and

1714
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:46,400
Speaker 1: we can't be accused of this, but I wanted to

1715
01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:48,880
Speaker 1: give you a sense of some of the context here

1716
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:50,599
Speaker 1: and some of the caveats that were offered.

1717
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:51,799
Speaker 4: She writes.

1718
01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:54,800
Speaker 1: The national authorities face numerous challenges in the collection of

1719
01:17:54,800 --> 01:17:57,160
Speaker 1: evidence in pursuit of their investigations, so the crimes committed

1720
01:17:57,240 --> 01:18:00,360
Speaker 1: during the October seventh attacks, including challenges of course, nation

1721
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:05,639
Speaker 1: and information sharing between governmental agencies, with very specific challenges

1722
01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:10,120
Speaker 1: related to crimes of sexual violence. These included limited survivor

1723
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:15,320
Speaker 1: and witness testimony, limited forensic evidence due to the large

1724
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:18,160
Speaker 1: number of casualties, and dispersed crime scenes in a context

1725
01:18:18,160 --> 01:18:22,080
Speaker 1: of persistent hostilities, the loss of potentially valuable evidence due

1726
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:25,280
Speaker 1: to the interventions of some inadequately trained volunteer first responders,

1727
01:18:25,320 --> 01:18:28,800
Speaker 1: the prioritization of rescue operations, and the recovery, identification and

1728
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:32,360
Speaker 1: burial of a deceased in accordance with religious practices over

1729
01:18:32,400 --> 01:18:35,720
Speaker 1: the collection of forensic evidence. Further, a significant number of

1730
01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:39,599
Speaker 1: their covered bodies had suffered destructive burned damage, which made

1731
01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:43,519
Speaker 1: the identification of potential crimes of sexual violence impossible. The

1732
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:47,920
Speaker 1: mission team also faced specific challenges in gathering and verifying

1733
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:51,920
Speaker 1: information on the occurrence of conflict related sexual violence. The

1734
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:56,080
Speaker 1: main challenge was the limited number of an access to

1735
01:18:56,680 --> 01:19:00,120
Speaker 1: survivors and victims of sexual violence and to survivors and

1736
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:03,439
Speaker 1: witnesses of the October seventh attacks. While the mission team

1737
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:05,720
Speaker 1: was able to meet with some released hostages as well

1738
01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:07,800
Speaker 1: as with some survivors and witnesses of the attacks, it

1739
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:12,080
Speaker 1: did not meet with any survivor or victim of sexual

1740
01:19:12,200 --> 01:19:17,519
Speaker 1: violence from October seventh. So pretty noteworthy here that they

1741
01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:21,960
Speaker 1: are indicating that they were unable to meet with a

1742
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:26,559
Speaker 1: single actual victim of sexual violence from October seventh.

1743
01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:29,200
Speaker 4: We know from other reporting.

1744
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:31,080
Speaker 1: In the New York times attempt to report all of

1745
01:19:31,120 --> 01:19:35,880
Speaker 1: this out, that they were unable to locate or speak

1746
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:40,360
Speaker 1: with a single actual victim of October seventh attacks. They

1747
01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:42,960
Speaker 1: talk about the challenges of forensic evidence. There is also

1748
01:19:43,080 --> 01:19:47,040
Speaker 1: no forensic evidence that they were able to use in

1749
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:52,400
Speaker 1: the production of this report, and so you know, very

1750
01:19:52,439 --> 01:19:55,519
Speaker 1: limited in terms of the actual data and evidence that.

1751
01:19:55,479 --> 01:19:57,120
Speaker 4: They were able to collect.

1752
01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:02,040
Speaker 1: In addition, let's go to the next here, so they said,

1753
01:20:02,080 --> 01:20:04,599
Speaker 1: despite concerted efforts encouraging them to come forward, the mission

1754
01:20:04,600 --> 01:20:06,599
Speaker 1: team was made aware of a small number of survivors

1755
01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:09,599
Speaker 1: who are undergoing specialized treatments, still experiencing an overwhelming level

1756
01:20:09,640 --> 01:20:12,680
Speaker 1: of trauma. Further, the internal displacement of several communities from

1757
01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:16,320
Speaker 1: the Gods of Periphery to other locations, rere lication of survivors,

1758
01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:19,800
Speaker 1: and the deployment of October seventh first responders from military

1759
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:23,760
Speaker 1: forces to combat hindered access to first hand information. They

1760
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:26,320
Speaker 1: go on later in the report to add what is

1761
01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:29,559
Speaker 1: maybe one of the most important lines in the report. So,

1762
01:20:29,720 --> 01:20:32,600
Speaker 1: as a result of the aforementioned challenges, which are the

1763
01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:34,720
Speaker 1: ones I just described, along with other ones that they

1764
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:37,679
Speaker 1: include in the report, must be noted that.

1765
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:39,920
Speaker 4: The information gathered by the mission.

1766
01:20:39,560 --> 01:20:44,040
Speaker 1: Team was in large parts source from Israeli national institutions.

1767
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:46,919
Speaker 1: This is due to the absence of UN entities operating

1768
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:50,280
Speaker 1: Israel lack of cooperation by the State of Israel with

1769
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:54,240
Speaker 1: relevant UN bodies with an investigative mandate. Nevertheless, the mission

1770
01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:57,160
Speaker 1: team took every step in line with UN methodology to

1771
01:20:57,200 --> 01:21:00,400
Speaker 1: mitigate issues of source reliability before drawing conclusions in the

1772
01:21:00,439 --> 01:21:03,400
Speaker 1: scope of this report. And Sugar, I want to just

1773
01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:06,160
Speaker 1: get your reaction to this initial piece about the limits

1774
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:09,040
Speaker 1: of the report, the caveats that were put into it,

1775
01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:10,679
Speaker 1: and the fact that at the end of the day,

1776
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:13,760
Speaker 1: much like in this was the same thing that not

1777
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:16,679
Speaker 1: Shorts revealed in her and the same thing that happened

1778
01:21:16,720 --> 01:21:18,880
Speaker 1: with the New York Times report. At the end of

1779
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:22,439
Speaker 1: the day, they weren't able to really glean much other

1780
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:25,320
Speaker 1: than what the Israeli authorities were telling them about what

1781
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:26,160
Speaker 1: happened on that day.

1782
01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:28,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the biggest problem that they have is

1783
01:21:28,280 --> 01:21:30,080
Speaker 2: circumstantial evidence, quote unquote.

1784
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:31,720
Speaker 3: That's really the thing that it relies on.

1785
01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:34,120
Speaker 2: That's just I mean, imagine, would you convict somebody of

1786
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:37,200
Speaker 2: rape in the United States on circumstantial evidence? Ask yourself

1787
01:21:37,240 --> 01:21:41,120
Speaker 2: how exactly that works. The reason this matters is, let's

1788
01:21:41,120 --> 01:21:43,000
Speaker 2: go back, is that if you talk to it, I've

1789
01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:44,439
Speaker 2: done this. If you talk to people who are in

1790
01:21:44,479 --> 01:21:46,840
Speaker 2: the wild, normal people who has their thoughts on the war,

1791
01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:48,599
Speaker 2: if the pro Israel and number two one and two

1792
01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:49,960
Speaker 2: things are going to talk to you about his rape

1793
01:21:49,960 --> 01:21:52,120
Speaker 2: and beheaded babies, and it's like, that's why you have

1794
01:21:52,160 --> 01:21:54,120
Speaker 2: to scrutinize some of these claims. Think about it in

1795
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:57,400
Speaker 2: the Ukrainian context too. If Ghost of Kiev and Snake.

1796
01:21:57,160 --> 01:21:58,760
Speaker 3: Island and all of that is real, then these are

1797
01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:01,919
Speaker 3: valiant warriors standing up and able to fight off the Russians.

1798
01:22:02,080 --> 01:22:06,200
Speaker 2: If it's a World War One style attrition thing on Bachmutt,

1799
01:22:06,200 --> 01:22:07,960
Speaker 2: well maybe that's going to change the way that the

1800
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:11,160
Speaker 2: average normy American is going to think about the battlefield.

1801
01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:14,439
Speaker 3: So these stories, there is myths, these legends.

1802
01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:17,080
Speaker 2: How all of them, Why and when we should litigate

1803
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:18,400
Speaker 2: and be responsible around it.

1804
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:20,120
Speaker 3: That's why it comes down to. So let's just lay

1805
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:20,559
Speaker 3: that out there.

1806
01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:23,040
Speaker 2: For all of the you know, anti Semitism and all

1807
01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:26,120
Speaker 2: these other ridiculous excuses I would treat by the way,

1808
01:22:26,160 --> 01:22:27,720
Speaker 2: if there was a let's say I think they have

1809
01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:30,880
Speaker 2: claimed this mass, what is it mass sexual violence against

1810
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:34,000
Speaker 2: Palisen's Maybe let's see. You know, you have every incentive

1811
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:35,960
Speaker 2: in the world to lie. Got to see some evidence,

1812
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:38,040
Speaker 2: got to see some first hand testimony, got to see

1813
01:22:38,040 --> 01:22:39,160
Speaker 2: some interviews.

1814
01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:39,360
Speaker 3: And all of that.

1815
01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:41,280
Speaker 2: I believe the report actually calls on the Israelis to

1816
01:22:41,320 --> 01:22:42,640
Speaker 2: allow that investigation also, and.

1817
01:22:42,640 --> 01:22:45,160
Speaker 4: The Israelis said, now, all right, well there you go.

1818
01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:47,720
Speaker 2: So my point, if we just come back to this,

1819
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:52,400
Speaker 2: is I have not seen a shred of physical, real

1820
01:22:52,439 --> 01:22:56,080
Speaker 2: evidence about the claim of like systematic use of rapist

1821
01:22:56,120 --> 01:22:56,800
Speaker 2: a weapon of war.

1822
01:22:57,200 --> 01:23:00,880
Speaker 3: So my opinion it probably just didn't happen. We'll see.

1823
01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:05,000
Speaker 2: But based upon all of this, Sheryl Sandberg's involvement, and

1824
01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:07,679
Speaker 2: you know, with the documentary, et cetera, they are trying

1825
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:12,800
Speaker 2: to will this into existence to justify the emotional you know,

1826
01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:15,760
Speaker 2: guard rails so people can put up about the way

1827
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:17,120
Speaker 2: that the war has been conducted.

1828
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:19,320
Speaker 3: And I think we should call that like we see it.

1829
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:20,800
Speaker 2: I don't have a particular dog or anything, and that

1830
01:23:21,080 --> 01:23:23,720
Speaker 2: I honestly don't feel particularly passionate, you know, about some

1831
01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:26,080
Speaker 2: of this, But it's like the evidence and everything that

1832
01:23:26,080 --> 01:23:28,400
Speaker 2: we've gone through the debunking of the New York Times

1833
01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:30,880
Speaker 2: report itself in the un The reason why all of

1834
01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:33,439
Speaker 2: the attention and all this focuses is on this is

1835
01:23:33,479 --> 01:23:36,880
Speaker 2: because it is so emotively powerful such to justify. And

1836
01:23:37,160 --> 01:23:39,400
Speaker 2: I would just say in general, whenever mass rape is

1837
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:41,840
Speaker 2: used as a systematic weapon of war, you don't have

1838
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:44,439
Speaker 2: to you know, have a whatever reporter or like you'll

1839
01:23:44,439 --> 01:23:47,719
Speaker 2: know because look, and I pointed to what are the

1840
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:51,800
Speaker 2: times in history the sack of Germany by the Soviet army.

1841
01:23:52,080 --> 01:23:54,679
Speaker 2: I mean, we had literally millions of rapes that happened

1842
01:23:54,720 --> 01:23:56,479
Speaker 2: at that time, and you saw the physical evidence. Nine

1843
01:23:56,479 --> 01:23:59,439
Speaker 2: months later, then you saw the Democratic Republic of the Congo,

1844
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:01,519
Speaker 2: where I believe it was like almost like thirty percent

1845
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:02,599
Speaker 2: when it was horrible.

1846
01:24:02,640 --> 01:24:03,880
Speaker 3: You know again what was happening.

1847
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:06,439
Speaker 2: It was immediate, there was physical evidence, there was video

1848
01:24:06,439 --> 01:24:08,800
Speaker 2: evidence in all of this, the level of parsing.

1849
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:10,000
Speaker 3: And all of this that has happened. I'm not going

1850
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:11,639
Speaker 3: to say nobody, you know, was attacked.

1851
01:24:11,680 --> 01:24:13,200
Speaker 2: It would be I think you've said this, It would

1852
01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:15,920
Speaker 2: be crazy if somebody, if nobody was attacked, right, right,

1853
01:24:16,120 --> 01:24:19,680
Speaker 2: But in terms of the campaign that they are alleging.

1854
01:24:19,320 --> 01:24:20,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think that had happened.

1855
01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:21,920
Speaker 2: And I don't really know why they even have to

1856
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:24,400
Speaker 2: do this, because fifteen hundred people or whatever were killed,

1857
01:24:24,479 --> 01:24:26,639
Speaker 2: or however many, I don't know what the twelve actually number,

1858
01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:28,600
Speaker 2: twelve or twelve hundred whoever.

1859
01:24:28,280 --> 01:24:29,360
Speaker 3: Whatever the real number is.

1860
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:32,040
Speaker 2: Whatever, it is a lot of people who were innocents

1861
01:24:32,160 --> 01:24:34,519
Speaker 2: were slaughtered on that day for no reason. That's enough,

1862
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:37,040
Speaker 2: and it should be. But you know, they're the ones

1863
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:38,320
Speaker 2: who are trying to make it get into a thing.

1864
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:41,240
Speaker 2: The media too, in particular, So if they're going to

1865
01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:43,960
Speaker 2: play that game, then you know, we gotta parse every

1866
01:24:43,960 --> 01:24:44,640
Speaker 2: single claim too.

1867
01:24:44,880 --> 01:24:47,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I would I would encourage people to actually

1868
01:24:47,560 --> 01:24:52,440
Speaker 1: read this report because the media presentation of the report

1869
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:56,720
Speaker 1: does not include a lot of the layers of caveats

1870
01:24:57,280 --> 01:24:59,959
Speaker 1: and limitations that were laying out.

1871
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:03,040
Speaker 4: For you basically what the report says. I mean to

1872
01:25:03,080 --> 01:25:03,880
Speaker 4: echo what she said.

1873
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:07,920
Speaker 1: I do find it extraordinary that at this point, if

1874
01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:12,880
Speaker 1: there actually was systematic rape, not some amount, but systematic

1875
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:15,920
Speaker 1: rape as a weapon of war, that we don't have

1876
01:25:16,160 --> 01:25:21,120
Speaker 1: one single survivor, we don't have one single instance of

1877
01:25:21,280 --> 01:25:23,160
Speaker 1: forensic evidence at this point.

1878
01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:25,160
Speaker 4: Now, I find I find that extraordinary.

1879
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:29,920
Speaker 1: Israel is very interested in getting this story out, you know,

1880
01:25:29,960 --> 01:25:32,479
Speaker 1: they've made a concerted pr effort. That's part of what

1881
01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:34,800
Speaker 1: that New York Times piece was all about. You had

1882
01:25:34,960 --> 01:25:39,240
Speaker 1: not Schwartz herself talking about, how, you know, pushing someone

1883
01:25:39,320 --> 01:25:42,280
Speaker 1: to cooperate with them in that reporting by saying this

1884
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:45,840
Speaker 1: is important for Israeli haspara in other words, propaganda. So

1885
01:25:46,040 --> 01:25:48,360
Speaker 1: this is a very important part of the narrative to

1886
01:25:48,479 --> 01:25:53,360
Speaker 1: the Israeli government. If they had this evidence to share

1887
01:25:53,400 --> 01:25:56,680
Speaker 1: with the UN, you can one hundred percent bet that

1888
01:25:57,000 --> 01:26:01,240
Speaker 1: they would now what the UN t here was able

1889
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:04,519
Speaker 1: to look at and why their conclusion was that there

1890
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:10,080
Speaker 1: are quote reasonable grounds based on circumstantial evidence to believe

1891
01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:13,920
Speaker 1: that conflict related sexual violence occurred at several locations on

1892
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:14,920
Speaker 1: October seventh.

1893
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:17,280
Speaker 4: They were looking at, you know.

1894
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:22,160
Speaker 1: Things like women, photographs of women who were unclothed from

1895
01:26:22,200 --> 01:26:25,439
Speaker 1: the waist down, things like that which are suggestive but

1896
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:29,240
Speaker 1: not conclusive. They also talk in this report about how

1897
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:33,280
Speaker 1: some of the initial reports coming out from first responders

1898
01:26:33,280 --> 01:26:36,960
Speaker 1: and paramedics on the scene, the reason that they assumed

1899
01:26:37,080 --> 01:26:40,280
Speaker 1: that sexual assault must have occurred to whatever victim they

1900
01:26:40,360 --> 01:26:43,400
Speaker 1: were looking at is because they were untrained in some

1901
01:26:43,479 --> 01:26:46,920
Speaker 1: of the body's responses after death. That you know leads

1902
01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:50,120
Speaker 1: to certain you know, these fencing positions, especially when fire

1903
01:26:50,240 --> 01:26:53,280
Speaker 1: is involved, that you know, could appear like the person

1904
01:26:53,400 --> 01:26:56,759
Speaker 1: was fending off some sort of assault and other bodily

1905
01:26:56,880 --> 01:27:00,000
Speaker 1: changes that these paramatics were not or whether they're paras

1906
01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:03,280
Speaker 1: or other volunteers or first response whoever they were, were

1907
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:06,160
Speaker 1: not trained in understanding, so they misinterpret. That's something that

1908
01:27:06,160 --> 01:27:08,200
Speaker 1: they found here. Something I'm going to talk more about

1909
01:27:08,240 --> 01:27:10,559
Speaker 1: in a moment is they actually say that some of

1910
01:27:10,600 --> 01:27:14,440
Speaker 1: the rape allegations widely reported in the media, especially at

1911
01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:18,360
Speaker 1: Kibbutz bi a re turned out to be unfounded. Put

1912
01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:20,479
Speaker 1: a pin in that because that was one of the

1913
01:27:20,479 --> 01:27:23,960
Speaker 1: instances that the New York Times highlighted in their now

1914
01:27:24,200 --> 01:27:27,920
Speaker 1: undermine and debunked report. So let me go ahead and

1915
01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:30,400
Speaker 1: put up on the screen the next piece, which is

1916
01:27:30,520 --> 01:27:33,920
Speaker 1: a summation of their conclusions, so you can see what

1917
01:27:33,960 --> 01:27:37,200
Speaker 1: they did find and claim and what they did not.

1918
01:27:37,800 --> 01:27:41,960
Speaker 1: And again they themselves admit this is all predominantly based

1919
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:45,000
Speaker 1: on official Israeli government sources. So they say, based on

1920
01:27:45,000 --> 01:27:49,120
Speaker 1: the totality of information gathered from multiple independent sources at

1921
01:27:49,120 --> 01:27:52,839
Speaker 1: different locations, there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict

1922
01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:55,760
Speaker 1: related sexual violence occurred at several locations across the Gods

1923
01:27:55,760 --> 01:27:57,960
Speaker 1: of Periphery, including the form of rape and gang rape

1924
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:01,680
Speaker 1: during the October seven, twenty twenty three attacks. Credible circumstantial

1925
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:06,439
Speaker 1: information which may be indicative of some forms of sexual violence,

1926
01:28:06,479 --> 01:28:10,519
Speaker 1: including general mutilation, sexualized torture, or cruel inhuman and degrading treatment,

1927
01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:14,040
Speaker 1: was also gathered. They were more definitive with regards to

1928
01:28:14,360 --> 01:28:17,840
Speaker 1: hostages because they were able to speak directly to some

1929
01:28:17,960 --> 01:28:21,240
Speaker 1: of the released hostages. This is a very small portion

1930
01:28:21,320 --> 01:28:23,679
Speaker 1: of the report, but they say with regards the hostage

1931
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:26,080
Speaker 1: as the mission team found clear and convincing information that

1932
01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:28,880
Speaker 1: some hostages taken to Gaza and subjected to various forms

1933
01:28:28,920 --> 01:28:32,200
Speaker 1: of conflict related sexual violence, as reasonable grounds to believe

1934
01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:38,360
Speaker 1: such violence may be ongoing. This part is maybe the

1935
01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:42,160
Speaker 1: most significant conclusion or lack of conclusion in the report.

1936
01:28:42,200 --> 01:28:45,439
Speaker 1: It gets zero attention in the media whatsoever, but listen

1937
01:28:45,479 --> 01:28:49,440
Speaker 1: to this carefully. The mission team was unable to establish

1938
01:28:49,560 --> 01:28:54,439
Speaker 1: the prevalence of sexual violence and concludes that the overall magnitude, scope,

1939
01:28:54,439 --> 01:28:58,320
Speaker 1: and specific attribution of these violations require a fully fledged investigation.

1940
01:28:58,400 --> 01:29:01,080
Speaker 1: A comprehensive investigation would enable the information base to be

1941
01:29:01,120 --> 01:29:03,559
Speaker 1: expanded in locations which the mission team was not able

1942
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:06,400
Speaker 1: to visit and to build required trust with survivors victims

1943
01:29:06,400 --> 01:29:08,880
Speaker 1: of conflict related sexual violence who may be reluctant to

1944
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:11,240
Speaker 1: come forward at this point. Now, the reason why this

1945
01:29:11,280 --> 01:29:15,080
Speaker 1: is so significant, Sagur is because this speaks directly to

1946
01:29:15,120 --> 01:29:20,000
Speaker 1: the allegation not that there were isolated instances of sexual violence,

1947
01:29:20,640 --> 01:29:24,880
Speaker 1: but that this was a systematic weapon of war. And

1948
01:29:24,920 --> 01:29:27,840
Speaker 1: they say they were unable to establish that. They were

1949
01:29:27,880 --> 01:29:32,080
Speaker 1: unable to establish it. So after all of the you know,

1950
01:29:32,160 --> 01:29:34,360
Speaker 1: the reporters who on the ground, all of the Israeli

1951
01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:39,559
Speaker 1: efforts to you know, create this narrative around systematic use

1952
01:29:39,640 --> 01:29:43,599
Speaker 1: of rape, as you know, sexual violence in conflict on

1953
01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:47,200
Speaker 1: October seventh, this team was not able to establish that.

1954
01:29:47,280 --> 01:29:49,439
Speaker 1: And then the other part of the report that also

1955
01:29:49,520 --> 01:29:54,240
Speaker 1: got no attention from the media whatsoever, was that they

1956
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:58,479
Speaker 1: found that within the occupied Palestinian territory, the mission team

1957
01:29:58,520 --> 01:30:02,000
Speaker 1: received information from institutiontional and civil society sources, as well

1958
01:30:02,040 --> 01:30:05,639
Speaker 1: as through direct interviews about some forms of sexual violence

1959
01:30:05,680 --> 01:30:09,519
Speaker 1: against Palestinian men and women in detention settings, during house

1960
01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:13,040
Speaker 1: raids and at checkpoints. By the way, there's already been

1961
01:30:13,280 --> 01:30:18,600
Speaker 1: un investigations into that, but Israel has refused to cooperate.

1962
01:30:19,080 --> 01:30:22,480
Speaker 1: Israel rejects they say, the report's called to investigate Palestinian

1963
01:30:22,479 --> 01:30:26,599
Speaker 1: claims regarding sexual violence by Israeli elements. So that is

1964
01:30:26,680 --> 01:30:29,559
Speaker 1: the sort of bottom line of what we got from

1965
01:30:29,560 --> 01:30:33,160
Speaker 1: this report. Just like I said, I would be very

1966
01:30:33,200 --> 01:30:36,200
Speaker 1: aware of the limits of this report, as spelled out

1967
01:30:36,200 --> 01:30:38,800
Speaker 1: in the report itself. Be very aware of the fact

1968
01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:41,759
Speaker 1: that this continues to be primarily based on Israeli sources.

1969
01:30:42,240 --> 01:30:44,200
Speaker 1: Be aware of the fact that they say that they

1970
01:30:44,560 --> 01:30:46,559
Speaker 1: were unable to speak to a single victim, they had

1971
01:30:46,600 --> 01:30:51,400
Speaker 1: no forensic evidence, and they also were unable to determine

1972
01:30:51,640 --> 01:30:56,479
Speaker 1: that systematic rape happened on that day. And so I

1973
01:30:56,479 --> 01:30:58,599
Speaker 1: would listen more closely to the report than the media

1974
01:30:58,680 --> 01:31:00,920
Speaker 1: characterization of what this report continues as well.

1975
01:31:01,439 --> 01:31:02,960
Speaker 3: Oh read it for yourself. You know it's free.

1976
01:31:03,120 --> 01:31:05,080
Speaker 2: You can literally go and read it any time you want.

1977
01:31:05,120 --> 01:31:07,360
Speaker 2: Nothing that we're saying here is like cherry picked. As

1978
01:31:07,400 --> 01:31:09,080
Speaker 2: you said, you put a lot of effort into pulling

1979
01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:10,920
Speaker 2: all of the quotes, and if you want to go

1980
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:13,080
Speaker 2: check the work, be my guest. You know there's a

1981
01:31:13,120 --> 01:31:15,439
Speaker 2: link right out there you could google you and report.

1982
01:31:15,680 --> 01:31:17,400
Speaker 2: You can read the full thing, et cetera, because none

1983
01:31:17,400 --> 01:31:19,800
Speaker 2: of the stories that I even read that looked at

1984
01:31:19,840 --> 01:31:21,720
Speaker 2: even close to a job of what you just laid out,

1985
01:31:21,760 --> 01:31:23,400
Speaker 2: which is it makes sense, it takes a long time.

1986
01:31:23,439 --> 01:31:25,599
Speaker 2: How long was that maybe ten minutes, you know, fifteen minutes.

1987
01:31:26,240 --> 01:31:29,400
Speaker 2: That's welcome to nuanced and the world that actual war

1988
01:31:29,439 --> 01:31:30,280
Speaker 2: that we have had to cover.

1989
01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:33,000
Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, all right, so let's talk about this specific

1990
01:31:33,160 --> 01:31:37,800
Speaker 1: instance that this report says was unfounded, which is with

1991
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:43,280
Speaker 1: regards to often repeated media claims of multiple rapes at

1992
01:31:43,400 --> 01:31:48,240
Speaker 1: Kibbutz Beery. So this is significant because in the New

1993
01:31:48,320 --> 01:31:52,400
Speaker 1: York Times now you know, discredited and very controversial piece

1994
01:31:52,439 --> 01:31:54,599
Speaker 1: Screams without Words, which we have been covering here, which

1995
01:31:54,680 --> 01:31:57,479
Speaker 1: Ryan Iss team at the Intercept and other reporters in

1996
01:31:57,600 --> 01:31:59,120
Speaker 1: c squorel have been doing a great.

1997
01:31:59,000 --> 01:31:59,960
Speaker 4: Job breaking down.

1998
01:32:01,080 --> 01:32:07,240
Speaker 1: They talked about three specific instances of rape. One was

1999
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:11,240
Speaker 1: the woman Galubdush, the so called woman in the black dress.

2000
01:32:11,600 --> 01:32:14,840
Speaker 1: We've already talked about how her family immediately came out

2001
01:32:14,880 --> 01:32:17,720
Speaker 1: after the story and said, no, we don't agree. We

2002
01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:19,800
Speaker 1: have actual evidence in the other direction that she wasn't

2003
01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:22,080
Speaker 1: really we had no idea that this was what you

2004
01:32:22,120 --> 01:32:24,080
Speaker 1: were even talking to us about, and you need to

2005
01:32:24,120 --> 01:32:28,240
Speaker 1: stop lying. So that one fell apart, the other two

2006
01:32:28,520 --> 01:32:32,599
Speaker 1: were both at this Kibbutz Biori. So let me put

2007
01:32:32,680 --> 01:32:36,800
Speaker 1: up on the screen what the un report says about

2008
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:40,080
Speaker 1: what happened at Kibbutz Beery as far as they were.

2009
01:32:39,960 --> 01:32:40,799
Speaker 4: Able to ascertain.

2010
01:32:40,920 --> 01:32:43,600
Speaker 1: The mission team conducted a visit to Kibbutz Biory and

2011
01:32:43,680 --> 01:32:46,760
Speaker 1: was able to determine that at least two allegations of

2012
01:32:46,760 --> 01:32:50,479
Speaker 1: sexual violence widely repeated in the media were unfounded due

2013
01:32:50,479 --> 01:32:53,000
Speaker 1: to either new superseding information or.

2014
01:32:53,280 --> 01:32:55,679
Speaker 4: Inconsistency in the facts gathered.

2015
01:32:55,800 --> 01:32:58,280
Speaker 1: They go on to say these included a highly publicized

2016
01:32:58,320 --> 01:33:00,920
Speaker 1: allegation of a pregnant woman who's wo had reportedly been

2017
01:33:01,000 --> 01:33:03,280
Speaker 1: ripped open before being killed with her feet is stabbed

2018
01:33:03,320 --> 01:33:06,919
Speaker 1: while still inside her. Other allegations, including of objects intentionally

2019
01:33:06,960 --> 01:33:09,760
Speaker 1: inserted into female genital organs, could not be verified by

2020
01:33:09,800 --> 01:33:11,880
Speaker 1: the mission team do in Part two limited and low

2021
01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:16,000
Speaker 1: quality imagery, So they say, the often repeated allegations of

2022
01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:18,240
Speaker 1: sexual violence you know that the media has been talking

2023
01:33:18,240 --> 01:33:21,880
Speaker 1: about are unfounded. Okay, So let me now put up

2024
01:33:21,880 --> 01:33:23,639
Speaker 1: on the screen what the New York Times had said

2025
01:33:23,720 --> 01:33:28,200
Speaker 1: in their screams without words report about what happened at

2026
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:31,680
Speaker 1: Kibbut's Beery, they said, and again, this is two of

2027
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:34,680
Speaker 1: the three instances of rape that they specifically cite in

2028
01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:39,639
Speaker 1: this report. A paramedic in an Israeli commando unit said

2029
01:33:39,680 --> 01:33:41,479
Speaker 1: he had found the bodies of two teenage girls in

2030
01:33:41,479 --> 01:33:44,519
Speaker 1: a room in beery. One was lying on her side,

2031
01:33:44,720 --> 01:33:47,320
Speaker 1: he said, box of shorts ripped bruises by her groin.

2032
01:33:47,400 --> 01:33:49,400
Speaker 1: The other was brawled on the floor, face down, he said,

2033
01:33:49,400 --> 01:33:53,000
Speaker 1: pajama pants pulled to her knees, bottom exposed, seamen smeared

2034
01:33:53,040 --> 01:33:55,679
Speaker 1: on her back. Because his job was to look for survivors,

2035
01:33:55,680 --> 01:33:57,799
Speaker 1: he said, he kept moving did not document the scene.

2036
01:33:58,000 --> 01:34:00,400
Speaker 1: Neighbors of the two girls killed, who were sisters thirteen

2037
01:34:00,400 --> 01:34:03,960
Speaker 1: and sixteen, said their bodies had been found alone, separated

2038
01:34:04,040 --> 01:34:07,120
Speaker 1: from the rest of their family. Now The New York

2039
01:34:07,160 --> 01:34:11,560
Speaker 1: Times faced with this UN report, saying that the Kibbutzpiury

2040
01:34:12,000 --> 01:34:16,960
Speaker 1: rapes were unfounded and their own rapidly crumbling quote unquote

2041
01:34:16,960 --> 01:34:18,439
Speaker 1: report on this instance.

2042
01:34:19,120 --> 01:34:22,280
Speaker 4: They said in their write up of the UN report.

2043
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:25,280
Speaker 1: That two specific allegations of sexual violence in Kibbitzpiury that

2044
01:34:25,320 --> 01:34:28,320
Speaker 1: were widely repeated by the media were unfounded. First responders

2045
01:34:28,320 --> 01:34:30,519
Speaker 1: told the Times they had found bodies of women with

2046
01:34:30,640 --> 01:34:33,040
Speaker 1: signs of sexual assault, aught those to kibbutzm But the

2047
01:34:33,080 --> 01:34:35,920
Speaker 1: Times in its report didn't refer to these specific allegations

2048
01:34:35,920 --> 01:34:38,320
Speaker 1: that the un said were unfounded. So that's their defense

2049
01:34:38,439 --> 01:34:40,120
Speaker 1: is like, oh, well, they looked into some other stuff.

2050
01:34:40,439 --> 01:34:43,280
Speaker 1: The stuff we reported is different from what they looked into.

2051
01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:48,880
Speaker 1: Oh really, well, Ryan has another report along with Jeremy

2052
01:34:48,880 --> 01:34:50,080
Speaker 1: Skatehill at the Intercept.

2053
01:34:50,120 --> 01:34:51,439
Speaker 4: We can put this up on the screen.

2054
01:34:52,040 --> 01:34:57,120
Speaker 1: They went back to talk to the folks at Kibbutzpiri

2055
01:34:57,439 --> 01:34:59,880
Speaker 1: to see what they had to say about all of

2056
01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:05,440
Speaker 1: and lo and behold, the spokesperson for that Kibbutz rejects

2057
01:35:05,479 --> 01:35:07,880
Speaker 1: the story in The New York Times and says, and

2058
01:35:07,920 --> 01:35:12,040
Speaker 1: I quote they were not sexually abused me. Read a

2059
01:35:12,080 --> 01:35:14,519
Speaker 1: little bit from Ryan's article. He says the Times article

2060
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:17,120
Speaker 1: described three alleged victims of sexual assault, for whom it

2061
01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:21,200
Speaker 1: reported specific biographical information. One, as I said before, is

2062
01:35:21,240 --> 01:35:23,519
Speaker 1: known as the woman in the black dress, gal Abdush.

2063
01:35:23,640 --> 01:35:25,880
Speaker 1: Some of her family members have contested the claims made

2064
01:35:25,920 --> 01:35:29,080
Speaker 1: by the Times. The other two alleged victims were unnamed

2065
01:35:29,120 --> 01:35:33,160
Speaker 1: teenage sisters from Kibbutz Biery, whose precise ages were listed

2066
01:35:33,160 --> 01:35:35,559
Speaker 1: in New York Times, making it possible to identify them.

2067
01:35:35,880 --> 01:35:39,160
Speaker 1: When asked about the claims made by The Times, this

2068
01:35:39,280 --> 01:35:43,360
Speaker 1: spokesperson for the kibbutz independently raised their name. You're talking

2069
01:35:43,360 --> 01:35:47,080
Speaker 1: about the Shabi girls, she said, No, they just they

2070
01:35:47,120 --> 01:35:49,439
Speaker 1: were shot. I'm saying just but they were shot and

2071
01:35:49,479 --> 01:35:53,720
Speaker 1: were not subjected to sexual abuse. The spokesperson also disputed

2072
01:35:53,840 --> 01:35:56,839
Speaker 1: the graphic and highly detailed claims of the Israeli Special

2073
01:35:56,840 --> 01:35:59,360
Speaker 1: Forces paramedic who served as the source of the allegation,

2074
01:35:59,640 --> 01:36:02,960
Speaker 1: which was published in The Times, The Post, CNN and

2075
01:36:03,040 --> 01:36:07,240
Speaker 1: other media outlets. Quote It's not true, she told the Intercept,

2076
01:36:07,320 --> 01:36:10,200
Speaker 1: referring to the paramedics claims about the girls. They were

2077
01:36:10,240 --> 01:36:14,920
Speaker 1: not sexually abused. They also in this story even dispute

2078
01:36:15,160 --> 01:36:17,120
Speaker 1: you know that detail about oh, they were separate from

2079
01:36:17,160 --> 01:36:20,479
Speaker 1: the rest of the family. Apparently they died with their

2080
01:36:20,680 --> 01:36:24,720
Speaker 1: alongside their mother. Again, this is all horrifying. You don't

2081
01:36:24,800 --> 01:36:28,920
Speaker 1: need to add any extra horse. This is horrifying that

2082
01:36:28,960 --> 01:36:32,599
Speaker 1: they were murdered, these two young girls and with their

2083
01:36:32,640 --> 01:36:35,320
Speaker 1: mother and others at the kibbutz. But they're saying the

2084
01:36:35,360 --> 01:36:39,680
Speaker 1: specific detail is not accurate. The Times responded to the

2085
01:36:39,720 --> 01:36:42,559
Speaker 1: intercept and said, we stand by the story and are

2086
01:36:42,600 --> 01:36:45,280
Speaker 1: continuing to report on the issue of sexual violence on

2087
01:36:45,400 --> 01:36:46,439
Speaker 1: October seventh.

2088
01:36:46,560 --> 01:36:47,960
Speaker 4: So that's where we are, Cyber.

2089
01:36:48,520 --> 01:36:50,880
Speaker 2: I think that's all you that you really need to know. Crystal,

2090
01:36:51,320 --> 01:36:54,479
Speaker 2: that's that's wild. I would courage again people go read

2091
01:36:54,800 --> 01:36:55,480
Speaker 2: for themselves.

2092
01:36:55,560 --> 01:36:58,479
Speaker 3: If the Kibbitz woman, if what if the Kibbutz seem.

2093
01:36:58,320 --> 01:37:00,360
Speaker 2: Or whatever the ones to say it's not true, They've

2094
01:37:00,400 --> 01:37:03,679
Speaker 2: got no reason in the world to lie.

2095
01:37:03,800 --> 01:37:05,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, so listen to them, you know.

2096
01:37:05,439 --> 01:37:08,120
Speaker 2: And again this is why these claims a bear scrutiny,

2097
01:37:08,160 --> 01:37:09,599
Speaker 2: and I think it's shameful.

2098
01:37:09,640 --> 01:37:10,920
Speaker 3: Honestly. The New York Times ran it.

2099
01:37:11,000 --> 01:37:15,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she even said that she believes that sexual

2100
01:37:15,240 --> 01:37:19,800
Speaker 1: violence was widespread on October seventh, So she believes right

2101
01:37:20,240 --> 01:37:23,720
Speaker 1: the Israeli narrative that that is the case. So you know,

2102
01:37:23,760 --> 01:37:26,840
Speaker 1: she's not some like you know, she's bought into the

2103
01:37:26,880 --> 01:37:30,960
Speaker 1: overall picture. But with the specifics regarding these two girls,

2104
01:37:31,439 --> 01:37:34,519
Speaker 1: that New York Times report was based on the word

2105
01:37:34,640 --> 01:37:38,320
Speaker 1: of one paramedic, which again goes against their own reporting guidelines.

2106
01:37:38,360 --> 01:37:40,000
Speaker 4: That they're supposed to have two sources.

2107
01:37:41,439 --> 01:37:44,480
Speaker 1: They are sticking to their story even though the Kibbutz

2108
01:37:44,560 --> 01:37:47,360
Speaker 1: itself is saying this did not happen. All of these

2109
01:37:47,400 --> 01:37:50,200
Speaker 1: details are inaccurate, and you know, there were questions about

2110
01:37:50,200 --> 01:37:53,479
Speaker 1: this story that were raised even before The Times put

2111
01:37:53,520 --> 01:37:56,519
Speaker 1: out their piece, and yet they neglected to provide their

2112
01:37:56,560 --> 01:38:00,519
Speaker 1: readers with the conflicting accounts that had already been published.

2113
01:38:00,640 --> 01:38:03,280
Speaker 1: So I mean, we really are at this point talking

2114
01:38:03,400 --> 01:38:08,519
Speaker 1: about Judith Miller level or caliphate level collapse at the

2115
01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:12,160
Speaker 1: time in terms of this, and that their reaction is

2116
01:38:12,240 --> 01:38:16,599
Speaker 1: not to fix the report, you know, retract the report,

2117
01:38:16,600 --> 01:38:18,559
Speaker 1: which is I think at this point what is really

2118
01:38:18,800 --> 01:38:21,960
Speaker 1: you know, called for issue an apology, fire all the

2119
01:38:22,000 --> 01:38:24,320
Speaker 1: people who were involved and putting this thing together, and

2120
01:38:24,439 --> 01:38:28,479
Speaker 1: especially the higher ups who put these two totally green.

2121
01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:32,080
Speaker 1: I mean barely had any experienced reporters on the ground

2122
01:38:32,520 --> 01:38:35,800
Speaker 1: doing the overwhelming bulk of the investigation in Adam Sella

2123
01:38:35,880 --> 01:38:38,880
Speaker 1: and a not Schwartz. Whoever made that decision. I mean,

2124
01:38:39,040 --> 01:38:42,200
Speaker 1: they should be out one hundred percent because that judgment

2125
01:38:42,240 --> 01:38:45,439
Speaker 1: call is just astonishing that they chose to go forward

2126
01:38:45,439 --> 01:38:48,080
Speaker 1: with this again in violation of their own basic standards

2127
01:38:48,360 --> 01:38:50,599
Speaker 1: and you can see, you know, some of the people

2128
01:38:50,600 --> 01:38:52,439
Speaker 1: who work at the Times who actually care about it

2129
01:38:52,439 --> 01:38:53,640
Speaker 1: being a credible institution.

2130
01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:54,599
Speaker 4: Part of why they're.

2131
01:38:54,520 --> 01:38:57,200
Speaker 1: Leaking to Ryan and others is because they're so discussed

2132
01:38:57,240 --> 01:39:01,800
Speaker 1: and disturbed by the incredible breach of journalistic duty here

2133
01:39:02,120 --> 01:39:04,160
Speaker 1: and by the undercutting of the Times reputation.

2134
01:39:04,600 --> 01:39:05,880
Speaker 4: It really is extraordinary.

2135
01:39:06,040 --> 01:39:10,040
Speaker 1: Every single piece that drops just you know, it's just incredible.

2136
01:39:10,120 --> 01:39:12,599
Speaker 1: This has been It's so radicalizing for me to see

2137
01:39:12,600 --> 01:39:14,160
Speaker 1: the way that this was all just invented.

2138
01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:15,800
Speaker 3: You know, my bed is Crystal. I think they're going

2139
01:39:15,880 --> 01:39:17,360
Speaker 3: to win a Pulitzer Prize for the story.

2140
01:39:17,640 --> 01:39:21,280
Speaker 1: Well, I actually think I actually think that's part of

2141
01:39:21,439 --> 01:39:25,200
Speaker 1: why they're sticking by it, because exactly they published this

2142
01:39:25,439 --> 01:39:27,799
Speaker 1: right at the end of the year to make sure

2143
01:39:28,040 --> 01:39:31,839
Speaker 1: it got in under the deadline for awards like the Pulitzer.

2144
01:39:32,200 --> 01:39:35,280
Speaker 1: It's part of their you know, award winning submission or whatever.

2145
01:39:37,040 --> 01:39:39,240
Speaker 1: And so if they were to retract it, what does

2146
01:39:39,280 --> 01:39:43,160
Speaker 1: it mean for the award they already won for this

2147
01:39:43,640 --> 01:39:45,000
Speaker 1: quote unquote reporting, What.

2148
01:39:44,920 --> 01:39:45,559
Speaker 4: Does it mean for that?

2149
01:39:45,600 --> 01:39:47,800
Speaker 1: What does it mean for their Pulitzer prospects, et cetera.

2150
01:39:48,120 --> 01:39:49,960
Speaker 1: So I actually do think that's a part of the

2151
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:52,400
Speaker 1: reason why they're going so hard instant but and that

2152
01:39:52,680 --> 01:39:55,439
Speaker 1: is it's just such an embarrassment. It's just such a

2153
01:39:55,520 --> 01:39:56,880
Speaker 1: complete embarrassment for them all.

2154
01:39:56,960 --> 01:39:57,240
Speaker 4: Guys.

2155
01:39:57,240 --> 01:39:59,760
Speaker 1: Congressman's running a little behind schedule, busy man that he is,

2156
01:39:59,800 --> 01:40:01,840
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna go ahead and film the interview with him.

2157
01:40:01,840 --> 01:40:03,680
Speaker 1: We'll post it later today, but wanted to get the

2158
01:40:03,760 --> 01:40:06,080
Speaker 1: show out to all of you. Remember, Soccer and I

2159
01:40:06,120 --> 01:40:09,280
Speaker 1: will be joining Emily and Ryan tomorrow for Counterpoints, so

2160
01:40:09,320 --> 01:40:10,000
Speaker 1: we will see you there.