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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of the show.

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Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com.

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Speaker 4: All right, good morning, and welcome to Breaking Points. How

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Speaker 4: you doing good.

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Speaker 5: This Christmas set actually always gives me a flashback. I

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Speaker 5: always feel like I have a flashback to you arguing

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Speaker 5: with Ted Cruz on the Christmas set.

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Speaker 4: Oh that's right, the video, Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 5: On the Christmas set. So I'm always like expecting Ted

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Speaker 5: Cruz to we should have.

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Speaker 4: Worn our Breaking Points Christmas sweaters. I actually thought about that,

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Speaker 4: which you can get in our store.

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Speaker 1: Down They still I think you still some available.

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Speaker 4: Go check out the store.

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Speaker 1: They're pretty great. Everybody loves them.

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Speaker 4: We should all want to get something front of the

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Speaker 4: tree for everyone.

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Speaker 5: Yes, or a Breakingpoints dot Com subscription if you maybe

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Speaker 5: you can get a year of Friday Show second halves

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Speaker 5: for Christmas for someone you love, because those Friday Show

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Speaker 5: second halves they get wild.

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Speaker 6: Although based on the new Jobs Report, which we'll be

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Speaker 6: talking about at the top of the show, you probably can't.

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Speaker 4: Things are getting dark.

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Speaker 6: Also, talking speaking of the amount of money you're spending

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Speaker 6: on healthcare, you probably can't.

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Speaker 4: We'll be talking about that for our second episode.

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Speaker 6: Although there's some good news in the fact that Republicans

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Speaker 6: are completely collapsing and that might lead them to actually

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Speaker 6: pass the Democratic legislation.

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Speaker 4: We'll see.

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Speaker 6: If you're in Venezuela, you absolutely can't because we're putting

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Speaker 6: Venezuela under a complete and total naval siege.

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Speaker 4: We'll talk about that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Trump put out a bild true social just last night,

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Speaker 5: so we'll break that down to.

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Speaker 6: Susie Wilds, we'll talk about the Republican response to her incredible.

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Speaker 4: Just vomiting of her thought to the vanity fair.

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Speaker 1: Day two of Susie Gate. It is here.

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Speaker 4: We're loving every second of it.

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Speaker 6: The New York Times had a fascinating for many different

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Speaker 6: reasons story on Jeffrey Epstein yesterday. We will talk about

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Speaker 6: what was in it and most importantly, what was.

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Speaker 4: Not in it. Barry Weiss meanwhile.

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Speaker 6: Is she ran her Saturday night town hall with Erica

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Speaker 6: Kirk huge get very difficult to get Erica Kirk an

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Speaker 6: exclusive because she's usually on other networks, so it's hard

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Speaker 6: to like actually schedule that between Fox and podcast.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the numbers are out and it was terrible.

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Speaker 1: Could have been better, It could have been better.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's very bad.

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Speaker 6: We'll have some updates on the Brown University shooting as

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Speaker 6: well as a nuclear scientist, yes, or like even beyond.

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Speaker 4: A nuclear scientist.

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Speaker 6: He was doing stuff that I can't even begin to

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Speaker 6: try to explain, was assassinated at his home. So we

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Speaker 6: either have one or two killers still in the loose

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Speaker 6: in the Northeast. I'm not sure which of those two

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Speaker 6: scenarios is actually more frightening the public now rather than

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Speaker 6: the FBI has been falsely accusing people of being involved

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Speaker 6: with the brownshooting.

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Speaker 4: We'll talk about all of.

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Speaker 6: That, and the weather is improving in Gods of but

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Speaker 6: we're going to talk about what the floods did and

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Speaker 6: what the and a new drop site report on what

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Speaker 6: the Israeli destruction of all the sewis treatment and trash

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Speaker 6: collection has done to just day to day life in Gaza.

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Speaker 5: Well, let's get to a big show today, So we'll

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Speaker 5: start now with these new job numbers. We get new

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Speaker 5: jobs data yesterday, and actually, before we even dive too

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Speaker 5: deep into that, the basic news is that about sixty

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Speaker 5: four thousand jobs were added in November. That was higher

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Speaker 5: than what many people expected. But the unemployment rate also

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Speaker 5: rose in November. That's the gist of it. We're going

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Speaker 5: to break down those numbers in more detail, but first

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Speaker 5: let's dive on into Fox News example of how they

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Speaker 5: covered where the economy is right now.

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Speaker 7: People are sick of waiting. In terms of the jobs.

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Speaker 7: Since Liberation Day, which is when most people look at

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Speaker 7: as when things kind of start taking a turn for

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Speaker 7: the worse, we've only added seventeen thousand jobs on a

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Speaker 7: monthly basis. There are over seven hundred thousand Americans were

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Speaker 7: unemployed today versus this time last year. That's a huge number.

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Speaker 7: Unemployment for young Americans is over ten percent. If you

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Speaker 7: took out healthcare sector hiring, would be negative.

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Speaker 5: So if you're familiar with Fox, of course, that was

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Speaker 5: Jessica Tarlov, who is a Democrat. Not surprising, but spot

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Speaker 5: the lie and those numbers. We can put the CBS

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Speaker 5: tear sheet up on the screen here. Employers across the

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Speaker 5: US ad at sixty four thousand jobs in November, beating

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Speaker 5: economis forecast. New government data shows, even as new October

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Speaker 5: figures revealed a loss of one hundred and five thousand

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Speaker 5: jobs assigned, the labor market remains under pressure. The unemployment

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Speaker 5: rate in November rose to four point six percent. That

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Speaker 5: is the highest level since September twenty twenty one one.

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Speaker 5: They also go on to note that it's a picture

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Speaker 5: of the labor market after the six week blackout and

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Speaker 5: official data caused by the recent government shutdown. That's true, Brian,

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Speaker 5: this is the first information we are getting here. The

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Speaker 5: data suggests CBS continues that employers and industries ranging for

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Speaker 5: manufacturing and hospitality are hitting the pause button on hiring

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Speaker 5: amid concerns about economic growth and tariff costs. According to

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Speaker 5: some economists, quick reaction to that first rune, Yeah.

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Speaker 6: What seems to be going on here, and this probably

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Speaker 6: comports with your own experience. People aren't losing people aren't

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Speaker 6: leaving their jobs voluntarily.

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Speaker 4: They're holding onto jobs even if they hate them.

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Speaker 6: They're not moving around and getting wage increases like they

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Speaker 6: were during the pandemic and towards the end or towards

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Speaker 6: the end of the pandemic. But companies are not creating

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Speaker 6: any new positions, and when somebody leaves, they don't fill

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Speaker 6: that person. And so that's why you see that unemployment

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Speaker 6: number going up into the right, which is not how

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Speaker 6: you want it to go.

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Speaker 5: Okay, So let's then dive here into Kevin Hassett talking

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Speaker 5: about the economy.

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Speaker 1: This was from Face the Nation.

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Speaker 5: She Margaret Brennan in this clip is pushing Hassett on

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Speaker 5: surveys of CEOs about employment. So could the situation get worse?

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Speaker 5: Let's go ahead roll the clip.

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Speaker 8: I want to ask you about the FED decision. The

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Speaker 8: Federal Open Market Committee said job gains have slowed this year.

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Speaker 8: We also saw the survey from the Business Roundtable. I'm

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Speaker 8: sure you saw it. They asked the CEOs what they

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Speaker 8: expect to happen, and they anticipate employment will decrease in

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Speaker 8: twenty twenty six rather than increase. Are you concerned about

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Speaker 8: a hiring slowdown.

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Speaker 9: The same FED said that they were more bullish on

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Speaker 9: growth for next year, right, And so I think that

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Speaker 9: we're at a circus shaft.

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Speaker 4: But at the jobs picture.

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Speaker 9: You know, we're going to get the data next week,

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Speaker 9: and so maybe next Sunday I'll come back and we'll

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Speaker 9: talk about it, because we've got two months of data

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Speaker 9: coming out on Tuesday, and we'll get a clearer picture

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Speaker 9: because right now we just have some very difficult to

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Speaker 9: pin down surveys, like the gold standard for this will

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Speaker 9: be really the household Survey, which we don't even get

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Speaker 9: for October.

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Speaker 8: But these are CEOs. They are the people who would

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Speaker 8: be doing the hiring right, and they're saying we're not.

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Speaker 9: But they don't have the broad perspectives that will get

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Speaker 9: when we get the big data released next week.

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Speaker 8: And you trust that big data.

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Speaker 9: I trust the household survey especially, And sadly we won't

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Speaker 9: have one for October, but we're going to get one

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Speaker 9: for November, and that's going to be really important for

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Speaker 9: thinking about where the job market is.

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Speaker 5: Okay, and we can actually put the next element up

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Speaker 5: on the screen as well, This is showing unemployment increasing

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Speaker 5: over time. Since November twenty twenty three. So this is

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Speaker 5: from Mike Conskahal. He is the senior director of Policy

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Speaker 5: and Research at the Economic Security Project, and he's saying,

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Speaker 5: it's not just that this job report is bad, though

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Speaker 5: it is Unemployment is up zero point four seven twenty

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Speaker 5: twenty five and increasing. It's that it shows what Trump

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Speaker 5: hoped to do with the economy is failing. And I

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Speaker 5: just want to pause on that point because it is

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Speaker 5: now that we have almost a year into the second

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Speaker 5: time administration, fascinating, not surprising, but fascinating how closely they

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Speaker 5: have tied themselves to AI because Trump obviously, I mean,

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Speaker 5: there are a million reasons that they've done that, but

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Speaker 5: Trump obviously also saw AI is getting a shot in

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Speaker 5: the arm to markets. And so I mean the amount

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Speaker 5: of stock increase that's tied to AI right now is

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Speaker 5: stunning and horrifying. More than it yep, And yeah, it's

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Speaker 5: something like eighty percent. Like it's crazy, And they now

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Speaker 5: are going to have on their hands responsibility that people

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Speaker 5: will point to them. They would have done it anyway,

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Speaker 5: but they basically have bear hugged these big tech companies

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Speaker 5: that are going pedaled to the metal on LM's artificial intelligence,

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Speaker 5: and what's likely to happen in the next couple of

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Speaker 5: years is mass displacement on the level of different periods

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Speaker 5: during industrialization where we've seen mass job displacement because of automation.

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Speaker 5: I'm not even making a judgment on whether that's good

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Speaker 5: or bad, although we talked about that a lot, but

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Speaker 5: I'm just saying it's happening, and it's happening as they

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Speaker 5: bear hug these AI companies to juice the markets, and

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Speaker 5: that just politically, as it's as it's unfolding before us

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Speaker 5: kind of look back at last year and you're like,

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Speaker 5: you guys didn't see this coming.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, And the comment from Kevin Hassett there was ominous,

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Speaker 6: I'm sure for people where he was saying, Okay, yes,

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Speaker 6: the CEOs are saying that unemployment might be up next year, but.

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Speaker 4: What about growth? They're bullet on growth. Yes, And if

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Speaker 4: you live on.

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Speaker 6: Wall Street, work on Wall Street, and live live in

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Speaker 6: upstate New York, and then that's great. Unemployment is up,

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Speaker 6: but growth is up too. Hey, that's even better actually,

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Speaker 6: because then you don't have any you have to worry

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Speaker 6: about upity workers demanding higher pay.

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Speaker 4: You're like wait a minute, what if what are you

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Speaker 4: saying here?

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Speaker 6: So you're putting all your money in AI and data centers,

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Speaker 6: and you're saying that we're going to continue to have

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Speaker 6: unemployment rate, unemployment numbers going up, but the economy is

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Speaker 6: going to continue to grow. How does that help the

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Speaker 6: people who don't have jobs? And nobody's talking about that.

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Speaker 6: If if you had a party who was like, here's

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Speaker 6: what we're going to do. Everyone's going to work twenty

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Speaker 6: five hours a week, and we're going to make sure

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Speaker 6: that you're paid an amount that keeps up. Not just

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Speaker 6: keeps up, it gets you ahead. Because if we're getting

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Speaker 6: all these productivity gains.

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Speaker 4: Let's enjoy it.

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Speaker 6: Took us thousands of years as you managed to get

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Speaker 6: to this place. Let's bask in it. Instead, they're like, nah,

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Speaker 6: jobs are going to keep collapsing, but growth is going

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Speaker 6: to be good.

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Speaker 5: Well, on that note, let's go ahead and listen here

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Speaker 5: to Treasury Sector secretaries.

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Speaker 4: Speaking speaking of ominous Oh my god.

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Speaker 5: Well this actually makes the point your point about Kevin Hassett.

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Speaker 5: Here Bessett is flushing out. I think even more we

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Speaker 5: can roll this clip.

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Speaker 10: Two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, ten financial

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Speaker 10: rules were too tight. They have hamstrung the American financial system.

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Speaker 10: It was time for a change. We are going to

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Speaker 10: be safe, smart, and sound in terms of our deregulation,

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Speaker 10: but we have to take the financial system out of

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Speaker 10: the straight jacket. This substantial increase from private credit, which

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Speaker 10: is outside of the regulated banking system, that tells me

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Speaker 10: that the regulated system is too constrained and has not

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Speaker 10: been able to compete with those who aren't regulated. So

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Speaker 10: we're leveling the playing field, and I believe that we

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Speaker 10: can do that in a way that creates trillions of

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Speaker 10: dollars in credit for this very strong economy we're going

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Speaker 10: to see, and it will be non inflationary.

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Speaker 5: All right, So Ryan, put your finance bro hat back on.

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Speaker 5: It's probably been since the early oughts since you've had

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Speaker 5: it on. But when he says the substantial increase in

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Speaker 5: private credit, which is outside of the regulated banking system,

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Speaker 5: that tells me that the regulated system is too constrained,

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Speaker 5: What say you?

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Speaker 10: So?

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Speaker 6: I mean what he's saying there is this rise of

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Speaker 6: private equity basically says that we're being too hard on

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Speaker 6: oligarchs and that we should just reduce the rules so

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Speaker 6: that more people will then not follow the rules that

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Speaker 6: we've gotten rid of. Play around. Yeah, I mean it

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Speaker 6: makes no sense, like it's just it contradicts itself. It

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Speaker 6: also leads exactly to financial crisis every single time. Like

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Speaker 6: so it's also a kind of hail Mary, Like, Okay,

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Speaker 6: nothing else is working. We need just a severe amount

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Speaker 6: of deregulation so that we'll flood in, you know, the

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Speaker 6: so capital can flow. You know, we can get another

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Speaker 6: subprime bubble. We need more bubbles. It's basically what he's saying,

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Speaker 6: like we're out of bubbles and when the next when

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Speaker 6: this next one pops, we're gonna need another bubble to

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Speaker 6: keep things going. And then he hads at the very

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Speaker 6: end with no evidence, and it won't be inflationary.

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Speaker 4: Oh okay, good.

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Speaker 1: That's the point of the regulations.

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Speaker 4: It's good, glad to did you clear that up?

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Speaker 6: The Mike Conzel post where he talks about where he

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Speaker 6: you know, talks about the rate of unemployment increasing, He

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Speaker 6: also has a full thread and maybe we can put

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Speaker 6: it in the in the link so people can dig

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Speaker 6: into it more. But what he does is he compares

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Speaker 6: what the president is trying to do and what the

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Speaker 6: president's team is trying to do to the economy with

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Speaker 6: with what is actually happening, and what he's trying to

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Speaker 6: do is drive up wages for Native born workers, drive

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Speaker 6: up wages on the low end, and manufacturing. He's trying

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Speaker 6: to reduce the amount of spending and healthcare, and he's

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Speaker 6: trying to reduce the amount of spending for the federal workforce.

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Speaker 6: And a key reason that you had an unemployment increase

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Speaker 6: this month is because the DOGE firings actually finally hit.

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Speaker 6: Now it's like because of the federal rules and on.

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Speaker 6: But what he finds is that nothing is nothing that

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Speaker 6: they're trying to do is happening, and in fact, the

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Speaker 6: reverse is happening. Manufacturing jobs are are collapsing. He writes here.

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Speaker 6: Unemployment is up everywhere, but especially for younger workers, black workers,

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Speaker 6: and those with bas and without a high school diploma

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Speaker 6: to the trend, and a bit more for men. Yes,

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Speaker 6: the people that he said he was doing all of

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Speaker 6: this for are the ones who are actually getting hit

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Speaker 6: hardest by this. And you know he's he chalks it

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Speaker 6: up to all of the uncertainty that Trump is injected

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Speaker 6: into the economy by making it really impossible to create

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Speaker 6: a business if you have any reliance on imports whatsoever,

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Speaker 6: deporting you know, huge numbers of workers and otherwise just

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Speaker 6: being a chaotic dude. And it's like, yeah, this is

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Speaker 6: this is what this is what you're going to get.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, the the uncertain.

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Speaker 4: And increase in health care costs, of course.

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Speaker 1: So there's no way around.

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Speaker 5: And I mean, I think you even hear it in

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Speaker 5: what Hasset is saying. Hasset obviously is under consideration for

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Speaker 5: a FED spot, and there's leaking against Hassett right now

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Speaker 5: actually interestingly enough, But they what you're hearing them say

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Speaker 5: is basically they're conceding they're in the middle of an experiment.

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Speaker 5: They're very confident as to how the experiment is going

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Speaker 5: to turn out when it comes to totally restructuring the economy.

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Speaker 5: So we're talking deportations, uh, manufacturing credits from the big

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Speaker 5: tax bill and trying to incentivize factory building and all

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Speaker 5: of that in the United States, Why would we have.

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Speaker 4: A manufacturing collapse?

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Speaker 6: Like that's what I'm right then, Well, I mean, I

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Speaker 6: think if you're about to have a boom, you would

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Speaker 6: at least be staying steady because but and this is

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Speaker 6: the point that companies are like, no, we yeah.

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Speaker 5: It's the point that you and Crystal have made since

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Speaker 5: the very beginning post Liberation Day, which is the uncertainty

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Speaker 5: is going to send people to China. It is going

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Speaker 5: to send people, not everyone. And that's what the administration

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Speaker 5: is in the middle of trying to figure out, is

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Speaker 5: where does it shake out at the end of the day.

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Speaker 5: Do you come out on top or do you come

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Speaker 5: out on bottom? And it looks right now like their

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Speaker 5: skeptics are proving correct.

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Speaker 1: Now there are all kinds of things.

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Speaker 5: That they can do in the new year, because they're

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Speaker 5: doing all of the tariffs, as we know, while awaiting

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Speaker 5: a Supreme Court decision ad hoc through the executive branch,

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Speaker 5: and that means they have a whole lot of control

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Speaker 5: over what happens in the new year. If they want

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Speaker 5: to create more certainty in the economy, if they want

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Speaker 5: to do all of these like grocery type carve outs

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Speaker 5: for things like I don't know, bananas, they can find

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Speaker 5: a way to do it. They can cross their fingers

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Speaker 5: and hope that when their tax bill kicks in, more

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Speaker 5: and more jobs start getting created. There are, of course,

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Speaker 5: anecdotal examples of factories betting on the United States, or

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Speaker 5: companies betting on the United States and building factories here.

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Speaker 5: And so the White House trumpets those examples constantly, but

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Speaker 5: even they have to concede they're in the middle of something.

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Speaker 5: And that's where just thinking about the AI question, as

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Speaker 5: you're trying to restructure the economy to bring jobs back

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Speaker 5: to the United States, you're bear hugging an industry that

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Speaker 5: is intentionally eliminating.

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Speaker 1: Jobs in the United States.

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Speaker 5: I'm reading here from a CNBC story from later late

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Speaker 5: last month, but we've been talking about the college unemployment rate,

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Speaker 5: so recent college graduates that are unemployed. This is one

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Speaker 5: of the big blind spots in politics right now, is

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Speaker 5: that you have so many young people rising youth unemployment,

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Speaker 5: as CNBC puts it, and that's because entry level jobs

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Speaker 5: are being.

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Speaker 1: This is CNBC quotes.

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Speaker 5: Some large employers have said they're replacing entry level workers

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Speaker 5: with artificial intelligence in order to streamline operations and cut costs.

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Speaker 1: Concerns about the economy.

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Speaker 5: Persistent inflation and slow down in consumer spending are also

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Speaker 5: likely contributors to an erosion of entry level opportunities, other

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Speaker 5: research shows, and so on top of all of that,

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Speaker 5: you have the administration saying okay, well college education pipeline

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Speaker 5: need to incentivize vocational schools.

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Speaker 1: Technicolure. Great, we agree with that. These are people who

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Speaker 1: just got college degrees.

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Speaker 5: There are people who are going to graduate next year

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Speaker 5: and the year after that with.

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Speaker 1: College degrees who are not.

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Speaker 5: Going to suddenly say I'm picking up welding and the

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Speaker 5: jobs are being eliminated and the ladder is shifting, and

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Speaker 5: so even just that's the substantive point. But like the

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Speaker 5: political point of this that's going to play out during

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Speaker 5: the Trump administration is absolutely mass employment, displaced displacement. Like

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Speaker 5: it's happening right now, it's going to continue to happen.

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Speaker 6: At least Bernie Sanders is responding to it. Interesting development

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Speaker 6: from him. Last night he put out a video calling

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Speaker 6: for a moratorium on data center construction, which hits on

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Speaker 6: both sides because the data center construction drives up your

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Speaker 6: electric city bill and threatens your water supply while delivering

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Speaker 6: basically no jobs, and if it works as expected, will

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Speaker 6: also take your job.

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Speaker 4: So it's like, wait a.

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Speaker 6: Minute, So Bernie is like, I don't know, how about

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Speaker 6: we not do that. Let's roll a little bit of Bernie.

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Speaker 11: What will ai and robotics mean economically for the working

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Speaker 11: class of this country. Well, don't listen to me, listen

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Speaker 11: to the people who are developing those technologies. Elon Musk

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Speaker 11: recently said quote AI and robots will replace all jobs.

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Speaker 11: Working will be optional. End quote. Bill Gates predicted that

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Speaker 11: humans quote won't be needed for most things. End quote.

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Speaker 11: Darie are A Moodi, the CEO of Anthropic One, that

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Speaker 11: AI could lead to the loss of half of all

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Speaker 11: entry level white collar jobs.

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Speaker 4: Question.

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Speaker 11: If AI and robotics eliminate eight millions of jobs and

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Speaker 11: create massive unemployment, how will people survive if they have

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Speaker 11: no income?

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Speaker 6: They have no answer for that, and nobody trusts them

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Speaker 6: to answer that question.

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Speaker 4: You know who they do trust is that guy. He

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Speaker 4: looks spry, maybe he could do one more run.

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Speaker 5: He looks like he totally knows what AI.

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Speaker 1: Is, how it works.

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Speaker 4: He gets it better than most.

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Speaker 1: He probably does. No, I actually believe.

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Speaker 6: That he gets the gist, which is really all you need.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and I mean some of this is like intentionally,

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Speaker 5: we actually have such a murky picture of what's happening

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Speaker 5: right now with AI and in the economy and what

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Speaker 5: the company's plans are. But I don't necessarily support that policy,

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Speaker 5: by the way, because what's happening in China and other

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Speaker 5: countries is no matter what we do, that's going to

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Speaker 5: continue to happen. So I think we have to be

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Speaker 5: smart about it. But that is going to be It's

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Speaker 5: like the healthcare conversation that we're having in the next block.

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Speaker 5: Absent a genuine, decent solution from the capitalist just keep saying,

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Speaker 5: trust us, we have your best interests at heart, you're

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Speaker 5: going to end up with either medicare for all or,

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Speaker 5: in this case, you're going to end up with something

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Speaker 5: like a moratorium because people don't want the stupid option

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Speaker 5: of just saying no pedal to the medal, eliminate all

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Speaker 5: of the jobs, and we'll just trust you to give

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Speaker 5: us UBI and be happy when it all shakes out.

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Speaker 1: And he's right.

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Speaker 5: I mean, going back to those quotes from CEOs of

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Speaker 5: tech companies, that is what they're saying. They're saying that aloud.

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Speaker 5: That's what they think the future is going to look like.

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Speaker 5: It's a question of how distant that future is. But

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Speaker 5: I think you'd be ridiculous to think that's like multiple

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Speaker 5: generations down the line when this is happening as quickly

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Speaker 5: as it is happening. And so for the Trump administration,

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Speaker 5: it tie itself so closely a to the economy, I mean,

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Speaker 5: and then b to AI just the politics of that

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Speaker 5: are going to be difficult no matter what.

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Speaker 6: And so meanwhile, swinging into this struggling economy is the

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Speaker 6: sledgehammer of these looming healthcare increases. We'll talk to Brian Blaize,

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Speaker 6: is a conservative healthcare economist, about the latest going on

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Speaker 6: in Congress about efforts to extend subsidies and why he thinks.

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Speaker 4: It's a terrible idea.

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Speaker 6: In a moment, We're going to be joined by Brian

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Speaker 6: Blaize as a conservative healthcare economist, to talk through Republican

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Speaker 6: health care policy and strategy, which is currently this week

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Speaker 6: seems to be collapsing a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Brian is the guy to talk to.

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Speaker 4: So there you go.

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Speaker 6: All right, So here's Donald Trump talking about where he

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Speaker 6: is right now.

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Speaker 10: What do you want to see Congress through this week

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00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 10: that relates to healthcare and the expiring ACAH.

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Speaker 1: That's a good question.

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Speaker 12: I'd like to see the people get the money. I'd

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00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 12: like to see all of the money that's going to

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00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 12: the Democrat insurance companies. You know, the insurance companies are

451
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 12: making a fortune. They're up seventeen hundred percent and more.

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00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,959
Speaker 12: Obamacare were set up, and I said it right from

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Speaker 12: the beginning, for the benefit of the health insurance insurance companies,

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00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,880
Speaker 12: of the insurance companies that are making big and billions

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00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 12: of dollars as stock is through the roof. I don't

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00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 12: want to give them anything. I want all money going

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00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,400
Speaker 12: to the people and let the people buy their own healthcare.

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00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 12: It'll be unbelievable. They'll do a great job. They'll get

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00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 12: much better healthcare at a much lower cost.

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00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 6: So he sort of wants to end subsidies and just

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00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,919
Speaker 6: turn basically just we'll talk with Brian about what his

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00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 6: idea is there. There are a bunch of different ideas

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00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 6: that Republicans have been kicking around to try to stave

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00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 6: off the increase and put up B two here that

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Speaker 6: we were expecting a vote tomorrow in.

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Speaker 4: The House of Representatives.

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00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 6: Looks Mike Johnson saying no, because we're not ready for

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00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 6: that and can put up B three. Jake Sherman prowling

469
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 6: around Capitol Hill, he reports the deal between House GOP

470
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 6: moderates and House Republican leadership is breaking down disagreement over

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Speaker 6: the language in the amendment to extend Obamacare premium subsidies.

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00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 6: So the four will go to rules Tuesday to offer

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00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 6: their amendment. If if they're rejected, that means they will

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00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 6: be free agents. This is if it's given Kiggins, Valedo,

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00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 6: and Lawler, which matters because a lot of them are

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00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 6: up for reelection and tight races. What he's saying is

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00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 6: if they become free agents, that could put Keem Jefferies

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00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 6: three year ACA extension over the finish line if you

479
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 6: get enough Republicans to join with Democrats. Now, Rocana was

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00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 6: recently on Fox News making the pitch for a Boulder

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00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 6: plan Medicare for All its rocan and then we'll go

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Speaker 6: to Brian.

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Speaker 13: The high cost of the Democrats health care plan did

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00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 13: not work.

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00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 4: That's just not true.

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Speaker 13: Look, private health insurance is what's bankrupting in America. Was

487
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 13: happening before the Affordable Care Act. The Affordable Care Act

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00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 13: helped slow the growth of private insurance. But of course

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00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 13: it's not the solution. The solution, as everyone knows in

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00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 13: my view who study this, is Medicare for role. People

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00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 13: should have national health insurance. Healthcare as a human right,

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00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,919
Speaker 13: you should not be subject to these private insurance companies

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00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 13: that have eighteen percent administrative costs, that are making billions

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00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 13: of dollars of profits. So as executors are making millions

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00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 13: of dollars, they're hurting our manufacturing. It's one of the

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00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 13: reasons jobs are off short. They're hurting workers pay going up,

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00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 13: they're sucking on money from our economy, and they're denying

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00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 13: people care. Even people on the MAGA right have recognized

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00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 13: that the system is not working, the system is broken.

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Speaker 13: It's time to get medicare for all in this country.

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00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 5: Well, we're excited to be joined now, as we've teased

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00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 5: long enough Brian Blaze, who is of the Paragounty, founder

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00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 5: of the Paragon Health Institute, and really at the center

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00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 5: of this policy conversation on the right and more broadly

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00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 5: as Mike Johnson seeks to strike a deal.

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00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,199
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for joining us.

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00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 4: Brian, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

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00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,479
Speaker 5: Now, maybe you could start just by telling us a

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00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 5: little bit from your perspective of where things stand right now,

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00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 5: because I'm sure you're hearing what's going to happen or

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00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 5: what people want to happen.

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00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: What's your prediction based.

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00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 5: On what you're hearing of how this all ends up

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00:25:58,480 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 5: before year's end.

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00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 14: Yeah, thanks for having me on, and just let me

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00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 14: explain exactly what the situation is before the Congress. So Obamacare,

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00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 14: the Affordable Care Act, took effect in twenty fourteen. It's

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00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 14: mainly affected the individual market for health insurance, which is

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00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 14: where people go that don't get a plan from their

520
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 14: employer or through a government program. Its regulations significantly increased

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00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 14: the price of insurance, and it contained large subsidies to

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00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 14: help people afford the coverage that the government regulations had

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00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:36,239
Speaker 14: made more expensive. Those subsidies are permanent. They mean that

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00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 14: the taxpayer pays a very large share of the premium.

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00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 14: In twenty twenty one, as a pandemic measure, Democrats use

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00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 14: reconciliation and they passed an expansion of subsidies. They put

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00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 14: those subsidies in place for two years, and then in

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00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 14: twenty twenty two they extended them through twenty twenty five.

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00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 14: So at issue is the expiration of these enhanced COVID

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00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 14: era subsidies. If they expire, the typical Obamacare enrollee would

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00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 14: still have very large subsidies. In fact, the subsidy would

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00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 14: cover more than eighty percent of the premium for a

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00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 14: typical enrolle. Now, there are some people who would face

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00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 14: significantly higher premiums. That is because the law originally capped

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00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 14: the subsidies for people making less than four times the

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00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 14: poverty line. Now that's a small number of Obamacare and rollies.

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00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 14: It's only about six percent of Obamacare and rolllies making

538
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 14: less Only about six percent of inrolies have income above

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00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 14: four hundred percent of poverty line. So most of the

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00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 14: examples that you see from Democrats right now on people

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00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 14: that face high premiums because these COVID era subsidies expire

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00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 14: there for individuals right above four times the poverty line.

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00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 14: But for the vast majority of people, the government is

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00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 14: going to pay the vast majority of the premium next year. Now,

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00:27:58,560 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 14: I think these subsidies.

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00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 4: Line is what.

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00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 14: For a family of four sixty For a family of four,

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00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 14: the federal poverty line is about thirty thousand dollars for.

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00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 4: A family of four. For a family of we're talking

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00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 4: one hundred and twenty thousand.

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00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 6: So if you make more than one hundred and twenty

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00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 6: thousand for a family of four, then you're getting hit

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00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 6: with that.

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00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 14: Then you would face the higher premiums okay, right, So,

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00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 14: but ninety five percent, ninety five percent of enrollees would

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00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 14: maintain subsidies and the subsidies would cover on average about

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00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 14: eighty percent of the premium. Now, one of the problems

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00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 14: from the enhanced subsidies. They made coverage fully subsidized for

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00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 14: a share of enrollees, and what we have seen is

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00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 14: that far more people report that they have income to

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00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 14: receive those fully subsidized enrollies. So we have done research

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00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 14: that estimates that about a quarter of all of the

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00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 14: Obamacare exchange in rollies are improper. They don't have they

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00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 14: don't meet the eligibility requirements. Many people have how much income?

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00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 14: So this is between one hundred and one fifty of

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00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 14: the federal poverty line. The covid era subsidies made that

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00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 14: coverage fully subsidized, and almost half of all Obamacare enrollees

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00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 14: claim that their income is in that narrow band.

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00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 4: We did a paragon was look at sign ups.

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00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 14: In that income range with the actual people that have

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00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 14: income in that range who would be eligible for the program,

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00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 14: and we estimate six point four million people are enrolled

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00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 14: in a fully subsidized plan who don't have that coverage.

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00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 14: There's been pretty sophisticated schemes to enroll people because again

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00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 14: these subsidies, to the President's point, they go directly to

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00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 14: the health insurance companies. So if people don't have to

577
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 14: pay any premium, that is a reason for people to

578
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 14: sign up in brokers have developed pretty sophisticated schemes to

579
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 14: get people get their information to get them enrolled. So

580
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 14: there's millions of people that have enrolled that aren't aware

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00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 14: of their coverage. Now, if we've enrolled a lot of

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00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 14: people that aren't aware of their coverage, one thing that

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00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 14: you might expect is a lot of people don't use

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00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 14: their health plan. In August, CMS released information on the

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00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 14: number of enrollees in Obamacare that didn't use their health

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00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 14: plan a single time in twenty twenty four and it

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00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 14: was twelve million people. So thirty five percent of all

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00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 14: enrollees in the market didn't use their health plan a

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00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 14: single time.

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00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 6: So we think there's do you think they got paid,

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00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 6: Like does the brokers say here, if you get one

592
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 6: thousand dollars up front to sign up, Like, how does it?

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00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 4: Like, why would you sign up for insurance and then

594
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 4: not use it?

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00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 14: So they were sophisticated of social media campaigns. They advertised

596
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 14: cash and gift cards if people would call the number.

597
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 14: People call the number they asked for the cash and

598
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 14: gift card. They gave their information. They didn't get cash,

599
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 14: they didn't get a gift card. They got signed up

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00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 14: for an Obamacare plan. The epicenter of the fraud, South

601
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 14: Florida is like the episode at SO.

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00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 4: It put bars around all of South Florida. It's the

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00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 4: worst in South Florida.

604
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 14: And actually DOJ just a couple of weeks ago closed

605
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 14: the case. Two brokers committed massive fraud like this the

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00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 14: benefit the main beneficiary of the health insurance companies because

607
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 14: they're getting monthly payments on behalf of people that aren't

608
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 14: that aren't enrolled in coverage and that aren't using the.

609
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 4: Best kind of gemer. It doesn't take your product, that's

610
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 4: right now.

611
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 14: So these two brokers, the amount of improper subsidies just

612
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 14: from these two individuals was two hundred and thirty million

613
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 14: dollars and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

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00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 4: Rick Scott's like, that's.

615
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: Real money, okay.

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00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 5: So on that point, this explains a bit about why

617
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 5: Republicans are hesitant. There's some obviously real problems, and it

618
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 5: explains a bit why Republicans are hesitant to just rubber

619
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 5: stamp an extension of the deal. There are all kinds

620
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 5: of political questions going into a midterm cycle that are

621
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 5: different from the policy questions that But what, then, Brian,

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00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 5: do you think actually could be done? Because we're almost

623
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 5: at year's end here, there's going to be an increase

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00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 5: for some people, as you just explained, what could or

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00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 5: should be done from your perspective when they have such

626
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 5: Republicans have such narrow margins. Democrats are pushing, as we

627
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 5: heard from Congressmancana, Medicare for all, like, what are you

628
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 5: thinking right now should happen in the next couple of

629
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 5: weeks if there is anything to be done to stop

630
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 5: people from getting.

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00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: Higher costs right away?

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00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 14: Yeah, So I think there's action that dated the next

633
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 14: couple of weeks, and then there's the development of sort

634
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 14: of free market health plan. I think what the Senate

635
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 14: passed Finance Committee Chairman Crapo and Help Committee Chairman Cassidy

636
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 14: introduce legislation that would redesign a portion of the Obamacare subsidies.

637
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 4: It would open up the cheapest type of.

638
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 14: Obamacare plan to more enrollees, and it would take these

639
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 14: enhance subsidies and do what the President is advocating, direct

640
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 14: them to individuals has HSA contributions rather than as payments

641
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 14: directly to health insurance companies. I think that legislation, there's

642
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 14: a lot to like about that. I think what the

643
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 14: House is looking at doing today is to expand further,

644
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 14: expand options for small businesses, allow them to join together

645
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 14: to get some of their regulatory advantages.

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00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 4: That large employers get when they offer coverage.

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00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 14: So I testified from the Center of Finance Committee about

648
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 14: a month ago. I suggested nine ways that Republicans could

649
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 14: from expanding health savings accounts, to addressing some structural flaws

650
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 14: with the Obamacare subsidies, and to opening up different coverage

651
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 14: options that they could do in the near term. Fundamentally,

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00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 14: I think the worst thing that Congress could do is

653
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 14: throw good money after bad. The way to guarantee that

654
00:33:54,960 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 14: we don't reform a very inefficient program and sector of

655
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 14: the economy is just to continue to over subsidize it

656
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 14: because that reduces the pressure for real fixes, and we

657
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 14: have a health care affordability crisis in the US. I

658
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 14: don't think it's right to just shift all those costs

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00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 14: to the American tax pair.

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00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: We can put B five up on the screen, just

661
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 1: to make that point. This is a gallop poll.

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00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 5: The headline here's cost leads Americans top of mind healthcare concerns.

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00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 5: So to the point Brian just made people agree. Everyone

664
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 5: basically agrees this is one of the top top stressors

665
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,919
Speaker 5: on the economy and individual families budgets.

666
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 6: And then we can put up the final one too,

667
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 6: So put up B six. When Obamacare was passed, you

668
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 6: were sitting at about thirty percent, a little over thirty

669
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 6: percent said that they would prefer a government run system.

670
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 4: Obamacare.

671
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 6: You rejected the public eye option, rejected Medicare for all,

672
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 6: rejected even a Medicare buy in for people fifty five

673
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 6: and over. It was very close to being included. Joe

674
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 6: Lieberman pulled it out at the last second. And so

675
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 6: people have gotten this interaction with a bastardized version of

676
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 6: a private system, which is the only thing we have

677
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 6: actually around the world. Right there's no pure kind of

678
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 6: private healthcare system that I know of outside of any

679
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 6: kind of developed country.

680
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 4: Maybe on the outside of Singapore.

681
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 6: South Okay, outside of Singapore, I don't know much about

682
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 6: Singapore health policy.

683
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 4: You can you can teach us more about that.

684
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 6: But as I was listening to you talk about the

685
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 6: brokers and the scams and the fraud and how complicated

686
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 6: this system is. And you're asked, and I assume the

687
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 6: reason that you can fudget is that they ask you

688
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 6: ahead of time, what's your income going to be for

689
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 6: the next year.

690
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 4: I don't know. Most people are like, I don't know.

691
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 6: Like if some people are like, this is my salary,

692
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 6: I hope I don't get fired, so I expect this

693
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 6: to be my But maybe I will get fired and

694
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 6: I will fit and I will fit into this nice

695
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 6: little band where I get all the subsidies. Or you

696
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 6: just kind of game it and like, I guess I'm

697
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 6: gonna make this, Or we could just do medicare for

698
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 6: all and then focus on the fraud, like put a

699
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 6: ton of money into Like if these chatbots in this AI,

700
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,439
Speaker 6: the lms are good for anything, they should be able

701
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 6: to find this fraud. Like you guys, you have a

702
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 6: couple interns, and you compared the number of people that

703
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 6: exist right in this economic band and the number of

704
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 6: people claiming the subsidies in that band, and you're like,

705
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 6: this doesn't match. You would think our llms could help

706
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 6: us with that, and then say, okay, Medicare for all.

707
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 6: We're gonna we're gonna make this simple so people don't

708
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 6: go around not knowing that they have insurance. You know,

709
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 6: because you're an American, you've got it, Like, why why

710
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 6: don't we just do that and be done with all

711
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 6: of this.

712
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 14: Well, I think of how much government has already screwed up,

713
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 14: and the fact that you need to get the example

714
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 14: out of Minnesota recently with that Medicaid fraud and dramatically

715
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 14: increasing autism, diet pain parents to diagnose of it's going

716
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 14: to be.

717
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 6: A constant pat and mouth game. Americans are very clever,

718
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 6: so are the newer Americans.

719
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 14: I think fundamentally, the problem with health care policy is

720
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 14: that the individual consumer and patient is not in control.

721
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 14: So only about ten percent of spending that people make

722
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,919
Speaker 14: on healthcare comes directly from them. Most of our expenditures

723
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 14: come from third parties, whether it's government programs, whether it's

724
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 14: insurance that takes the form of an employer sponsor insurance plan.

725
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 14: We have created a market that is not responsive to

726
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 14: the individual consumer and patient, so it meets the needs

727
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 14: of the insurance company, it meets the needs of the

728
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 14: government program. It's not responsible to the individual. We have

729
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,720
Speaker 14: no idea what prices are right. Prices in most sectors

730
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 14: of the economy, that's what coordinates behavior, and we know

731
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 14: how to value things relative to other things. But prices

732
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 14: are basically just made up. Nobody has any idea, and

733
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 14: people don't have any incentives to care about what the

734
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 14: prices are. So I think fundamentally what we need to

735
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 14: do is address these problems with government programs that have

736
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 14: centralized control and power in the hands of the intermediaries

737
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 14: and the middlemen, and return as much control to the

738
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 14: individual as possible so that they can choose the care

739
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 14: and coverage it works for them, and so the healthcare providers,

740
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 14: the doctors, the nurses are serving actual patients and meeting

741
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 14: their needs.

742
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 6: The reason I'm cynical about that is not just because

743
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 6: of what most people say, which is that healthcare can't

744
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 6: be a normal market because you know, if you don't

745
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 6: buy the thing, you could die, and so that you

746
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 6: creates an imbalanced amount of leverage in the transactional relationship

747
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 6: between you and the person who holds your life in

748
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 6: their hands.

749
00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: But existing conditions.

750
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 6: Yes, setting that aside, the United States government doesn't seem

751
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 6: to care about markets anywhere else. Like in every other industry,

752
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,919
Speaker 6: we're okay with a monopoly or oligopoly, you know, whether

753
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 6: it's airlines or youth sports, or beef or poultry or like.

754
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 6: Actually it's harder to find an industry that we haven't

755
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 6: allowed to consolidate into just one or two producers and

756
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 6: that set prices and so then we're expected to believe that.

757
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 6: Oh no, when it comes to healthcare, which makes up

758
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 6: a third of the economy or something, we promise we're

759
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 6: going to do it strong antitrust enforcement. We're going to

760
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 6: really crack down on the giant scammers. There were the

761
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 6: medical providers, and we're not going to let private equity

762
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 6: just roll this up and have giant companies, you know,

763
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 6: let three companies control the entire healthcare industry and then

764
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 6: set prices. And so then you have a situation where

765
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 6: it's not just like beef, because like with beef, okay,

766
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,760
Speaker 6: you know, you have four beef companies and control everything.

767
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 6: I guess I could eat less beef, maybe go eat

768
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 6: some chicken and some more soybeans or whatever.

769
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 4: But when it comes to healthcare.

770
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 6: It's like you're gonna have to You're gonna have to

771
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 6: pay the piper, and the US government I just don't

772
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 6: trust to.

773
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 4: Not make it. So there's like three pipers.

774
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 14: Don't I don't trust the US government either. I do

775
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 14: think in some place it'd be great if we would

776
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 14: have four competitors. We have produced a lot of local

777
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 14: hospital monopolies. Exactly local hospital monopolies. It's a real problem.

778
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 6: So why I was hospital is gonna Well, where I

779
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 6: would look is where's the government.

780
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,760
Speaker 14: Policy that incentivizes consolidation and reduces competition in the market.

781
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 14: A really good example comes from the Medicare program. Medicare

782
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 14: pays much more for the same service delivered in a

783
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 14: hospital than if it's delivered in a physician's office. What

784
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 14: does that lead to? That leads to incentives for hospitals

785
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 14: and physicians to sell out. So the hospital acquires the

786
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 14: physician practice, and then you have an integrated healthcare system

787
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 14: and you've reduced contractions in that area. There are examples

788
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 14: where we've allowed market forces to work in healthcare and

789
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 14: consumerism to work of people making cost conscious decisions and

790
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 14: driving health care services to lower cost providers, and those

791
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 14: lower costs provide. The high cost providers don't want to

792
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 14: lose consumers, so they do lower their prices. So we

793
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 14: do have examples, they are too few and far between, unfortunately.

794
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 14: But I think where I want to go is what

795
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 14: can we address in government policy that reduces consumer control

796
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 14: and leads to these incentives for additional consolidation.

797
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 5: And consuming it in the politics of this quickly. I

798
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 5: think one of the reasons that Republicans and you'll know

799
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 5: this better than I do, never landed on a consensus

800
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 5: repeal and replaced plan is that they never landed on consensus.

801
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 5: There was never something that brought everybody together, you know,

802
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 5: everyone from John McCain to you know, Marco Rubio at

803
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 5: the time in the Senate. So do you feel that

804
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 5: as these conversations are happening now, and it seems to

805
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 5: me again this is probably a frustration you've had for

806
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 5: much longer, but that Republicans just keep putting healthcare on

807
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 5: the back burner while voters say, this is on our

808
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 5: front burner. This is the thing that is like eating

809
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 5: us up right now. This has forced the conversation, do

810
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 5: you think Republicans are getting anywhere close to a consensus,

811
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 5: either tweak as you say, before the end of the

812
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 5: year and then big fix in the new year, or

813
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 5: is it still just kind of We're going to tinker

814
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 5: around the edges, do what we can when the crunch

815
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 5: is on, and hope that you know, it doesn't come

816
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 5: up again before we have absolutely have to have some

817
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:47,760
Speaker 5: type of comprehensive solution.

818
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 14: Yeah, So I do think Republicans have to do Conservatives

819
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 14: have to do a better job on healthcare policy. I mean,

820
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 14: it's one of the reasons that I found it Beregon

821
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 14: was because a job there was a app on the

822
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 14: free market side on healthcare policy. And like you said,

823
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 14: I mean, healthcare is twenty percent of the economy. We needed,

824
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,280
Speaker 14: and the healthcare sector is its system is not working

825
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 14: for most Americans, so we need policies. I think that

826
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 14: there are like they recognize that Obamacare hasn't made healthcare

827
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 14: more affordable. I think there's widespread agreement that just continuing

828
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 14: to throw good money after bad and propping up an

829
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 14: inefficient regulatory structure is unwise policy. I think there is

830
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 14: agreement on how we should expand options and make some

831
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 14: improvements on the margin on Obamacare and I think what

832
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 14: we have to do is just I mean, one comprehensive plan.

833
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 14: I don't think is the right strategy. I think the

834
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 14: right strategy is to look at what's not working correctly

835
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 14: diagnose the problem. Like I mentioned on Medicare, paying much

836
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 14: more for hospital services than doctor services, that's a bipartisan problem.

837
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 14: It's recognized by Democrats and Republicans. Now, who's the main

838
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 14: obstacle to getting that policy through. It's hospitals. Hospitals are

839
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 14: very powerful. If you look at the American Enterprise Institute

840
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 14: has what they call a chart of the Century and

841
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 14: it looks at the price increases by economic sector since

842
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 14: two thousand. The number one the highest growing price inflation

843
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 14: is hospitals. That to me is where we have our

844
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 14: main healthcare affordability problem. Is we need to drive down

845
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 14: hospital prices in the US and the site neutral payments

846
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 14: and Medicare should be a starting point. But it's going

847
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:44,720
Speaker 14: to require reformers to go and combat the healthcare industry.

848
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 4: What do you think is going to happen?

849
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 6: Do you think that these four Republicans or more will

850
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 6: join with Democrats and pass the three year extension in

851
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 6: the House. And if it doesn't have a shot in

852
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:57,959
Speaker 6: the Senate, I do not.

853
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 14: So I don't know if they'll join Withocrats and pass

854
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 14: an extension.

855
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 4: I do not think that that is a realistic policy.

856
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,760
Speaker 6: I mean, right, but we've been doing unrealistic policy for decades.

857
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:10,399
Speaker 4: So well.

858
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 14: I don't think there's not going to be a clean

859
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 14: extension of the subsidies. I mean, I think there's so

860
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 14: many problems with the subsidies. The fraud is one major problem.

861
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 14: There's not going to be a clean extension of these

862
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 14: COVID era credits. I mean, there might be some compromise

863
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 14: out there. I think there's certainly a way to deal

864
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 14: with the problem for the people that I mentioned just

865
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 14: above four times the poverty line, Like that is a

866
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 14: relatively cheap fix. You would allow to enhance subsidies to

867
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 14: expire for people below four times the poverty line, who

868
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:48,879
Speaker 14: still get very generous underlying Obamacare subsidies. You deal with

869
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 14: the cliff that was created for people just above four

870
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 14: times the poverty line, and you introduce some reforms to

871
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 14: address the cost drivers in Obamacare.

872
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, so interesting, And just like you said, Republicans had

873
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,359
Speaker 5: such a gap on this, so we appreciate you coming

874
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 5: in Brian and helping walk as through. Well, we'll have

875
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,760
Speaker 5: to have you back on to talk about Singapore's healthcare system.

876
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 5: Appetite husband pethe all right, thank you, Brian Blaize, founder

877
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 5: of Paragon, appreciate being here.

878
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 4: Thank you.

879
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 6: So I think a friend of Donald Trump's must have

880
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 6: told him that he was losing the capacity to shock

881
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 6: people with his truth social posts, and so in the

882
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 6: last few days he shocked the entire world, and with

883
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 6: his response to the brutal murder of Rob Ryaner and

884
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 6: his wife Michelle now is following it up with one

885
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 6: of the most unhinged remarks he's made about Venezuela. Yet,

886
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 6: we could put up this true social post. We'll read

887
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:53,399
Speaker 6: this entire thing, he says. Venezuela is completely surrounded by

888
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 6: the largest armada ever assembled in the history of South America.

889
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 6: A pause on that note, are you really invoking the

890
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 6: span here?

891
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 4: Like? What are you doing? He says?

892
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 6: It will only get bigger, and the shock to them

893
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 6: will be like nothing they have ever seen before until

894
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 6: such time as they return to the United States of

895
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 6: America all of the oil, land, what and other assets

896
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 6: that they previously stole from US. Yes, Venezuela stole our oil,

897
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:24,879
Speaker 6: land and other assets. The illegitimate Maduro regime is using

898
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 6: oil from these stolen oil fields to finance themselves, the horror,

899
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 6: drug terrorism, human trafficking, murder, and kidnapping. For the theft

900
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 6: of our assets and many other reasons, including terrorism, drug smuggling,

901
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 6: and human trafficking, the Venezuelan regime has been designated a

902
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 6: foreign terrorist organization. Therefore, today I am ordering a total

903
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 6: incomplete blockade of all sanctioned oil tankers going into and

904
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 6: out of Venezuela. The illegal aliens and criminals that the

905
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 6: Maduro regime has sent into the United States during the

906
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 6: weekend andept Biden administration are being returned to Venezuela at

907
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 6: a rapid pace. America will not allow criminals, terrorists, or

908
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 6: other countries to rob, threaten, or harm our nation, and

909
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 6: likewise will not allow a hostile regime to take our oil,

910
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 6: land or any other assets, all of which must be

911
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 6: returned to the United States immediately.

912
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 4: Thank you for your attention to this matter. Donald J. Trump,

913
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:20,800
Speaker 4: President of the United States.

914
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:27,280
Speaker 6: I don't understand how Venezuela could return land to US promptly.

915
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 4: I understand the oil thing, like.

916
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 6: There was a there was a meme during the occupation

917
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 6: of a Raq that said, how did our oil get

918
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 6: under their sand?

919
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 1: It beats me, But.

920
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 4: However it got under there, We're going over there and

921
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 4: we're taking it back.

922
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 1: Someone's got to find out.

923
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 4: I understand the oil part. The land. How are we

924
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 4: going to take How did Venezuela take our land?

925
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 6: Jesse Waters, as we talked about I think last week,

926
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:54,760
Speaker 6: said South America is ours.

927
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 4: It's in the name America America. Maybe that's what he means.

928
00:48:58,160 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: It's not that hard, it's America.

929
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:06,399
Speaker 6: Ironically, Trump recently seized Venezuelan assets. They seized an oil tanker,

930
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 6: We seized Sidgo, like we took their oil company. Now

931
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 6: we're going to now they took our land.

932
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:18,399
Speaker 1: I mean.

933
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 5: Also another part of that where he's saying, on the

934
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 5: one hand, Maduro sent criminals into the United States during

935
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 5: the Biden administration.

936
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: On the other hand, Maduro is a vicious dictator.

937
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 5: These two things are in conflict because what's actually happening

938
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 5: is that Maduro is a dictator and people fled Maduro

939
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 5: to come into the United States, which is why there's

940
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 5: debate among the Republican Party over whether or not to

941
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 5: grant asylum to people who, in the case of many

942
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 5: Venezuelans and all of them, actually is pretty sound for

943
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 5: asylum fleeing the Maduro regime. There were real reasons for

944
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,359
Speaker 5: people to be fleeing the Maduro regime, just as other

945
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 5: are real reasons for people to be fleeing Cuba over

946
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,760
Speaker 5: the last several decades, and so On the one hand,

947
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 5: Trump is acting as though this was intentionally set up

948
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,760
Speaker 5: by Maduro to infiltrate the United States.

949
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,800
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, Maduro so bad. If Maduro

950
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:13,439
Speaker 1: is so bad, then.

951
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 5: It stands to reason people are going to flee into

952
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 5: the United States, which is exactly what happened.

953
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: It wasn't.

954
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 5: It's similar to the trafficking narrative that they're trying to build.

955
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 5: Of course, I think there's pretty significant evidence that there

956
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 5: are state actors in the trafficking, and many people would

957
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 5: argue there were state actors on our side in the

958
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 5: trafficking as well. But that's the argument the United States

959
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 5: government is making. But to say that this was intentional,

960
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,320
Speaker 5: that the migration from Venezuela and the United States was

961
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 5: an intentional invasion infiltration, they're doing the same thing with drugs,

962
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 5: and actually what's happened is that people are poor and

963
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 5: desperate and are trying to make money or trying to

964
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 5: get to a better country. And so that actually confirms

965
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 5: the administration's argument about a duro being a dictator. But

966
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 5: of course, you're they're trying to have it both ways.

967
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:10,280
Speaker 6: And already a couple of tankers apparently have been turned around,

968
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 6: have turned around because they're nervous about getting caught up

969
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 6: in this American Spanish armada, which is throwing the Venezuelan

970
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 6: economy into complete and total turmoil, like it was already

971
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 6: deeply struggling under this like incredible tightening regime of sanctions

972
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 6: that we have going on there, as well as the

973
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 6: you know, collapse of oil prices over the last decade,

974
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 6: which was kind of propping up the cha Vista socialism project.

975
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 6: What that's going to do is create, like you said,

976
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 6: an outflow of migration as well as create like starvation

977
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 6: and suffering misery, and there's plenty of and create instability.

978
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 4: Part of this. You know, there's a right.

979
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 6: Wing movement going on now in South in Central America.

980
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 6: You've you've had you know, the right wing win elections

981
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 6: in Ecuador, Hondura's, Chile, Bolivia recently, and a significance, non

982
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 6: trivial amount of that is there were like eight million

983
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:17,879
Speaker 6: Venezuelans who getting in the chill poured out of into

984
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 6: into lots of other countries. Of like a half million

985
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 6: or so came to the US, it's another seven and

986
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 6: a half million went elsewhere around and that and that

987
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,399
Speaker 6: generally throughout world history has created kind of a right

988
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 6: wing poll. So I when I first saw this news,

989
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 6: I was like, Maduro, I want to call him a dictator.

990
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 6: Not he's offering to step down in exchange for like

991
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 6: lifting of the sanctions and not not drone striking him

992
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 6: and offering to let American oil companies come in.

993
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 4: Like he's he's basically saying, what do you want?

994
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 5: Well, he doesn't want what Trump is threatening to bring

995
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 5: down right now.

996
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 4: He doesn't want to be killed. And so what what why?

997
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 6: Like I don't understand why Trump will just say yes,

998
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 6: like okay, you get your regime change, you get the oil,

999
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 6: you get everything, but you don't get I guess a war.

1000
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 6: The only thing I can think of is and this

1001
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 6: is like, no, this can't be what he's doing. Like

1002
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 6: maybe he misses a border crisis, like the border is

1003
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 6: very calm right now, and maybe to Trump, he needs

1004
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,439
Speaker 6: a crisis at the border, and so he's like, Oh,

1005
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 6: I need to create an enormous amount of instability and

1006
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 6: suffering in Venezuela so I can drive more people to

1007
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 6: the border and then in twenty twenty six point to

1008
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 6: the caravans of the people at the border and be

1009
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 6: like Democrats some you know, I don't know quite how

1010
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 6: you finish that equation, but you know, Democrats, scary brown people.

1011
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 6: You have to vote, you know, vote for me. It

1012
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 6: hasn't worked in the past, like when you had the

1013
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 6: big caravan in twenty eighteen, that didn't help him.

1014
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 4: What on earth is he doing well?

1015
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 5: Correctlyer, But Maduro has said his counter offer part of

1016
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 5: it is allowing hiss like kind of him to hand

1017
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:03,720
Speaker 5: pick a successor who would ran a power for a couple.

1018
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 6: Of years, right, and while there's elections, Yeah, and that

1019
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 6: successor would not run for reelection.

1020
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:07,879
Speaker 4: Right.

1021
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 5: My guess is that if there was any chance of

1022
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,320
Speaker 5: Donald Trump himself cutting a deal with Moduro, that's probably

1023
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:15,839
Speaker 5: a brick wall in the negotiations.

1024
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: But I think that's a simpler You're just.

1025
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 6: Going to put the Nobel Peace Prize winning Machado Forcibly

1026
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 6: on the throne.

1027
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,319
Speaker 4: Like no, but that's what she has no base.

1028
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 1: But that's what I was going to say.

1029
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:26,319
Speaker 5: The simpler explanation is that you have to think about

1030
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 5: this as President Marco Rubio as opposed to President Donald Trump,

1031
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 5: and President Marco Rubio doesn't want like knows that the

1032
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:37,880
Speaker 5: United States, to paraphrase the Zelenski conversation, holds all the

1033
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 5: cards here except for the American people largely not wanting this,

1034
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 5: but wants to make a point and wants absolutely no quarter,

1035
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 5: wants absolutely no remnant, which is impossible, but wants absolutely

1036
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 5: no remnant of the left, the socialist left, or the whatever. Venezuela,

1037
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 5: it's a country that has a left and has convinced Trump.

1038
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,319
Speaker 5: I mean, we saw just what a couple of days

1039
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 5: ago Trump declared fentanyl a weapon of mass destruction, that

1040
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 5: this could lay the groundwork for potential military action in Mexico.

1041
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 5: Because if you're declaring fentanyl WMD, it's all kinds of

1042
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 5: legal questions about what that actually means, what that actually does,

1043
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 5: But that's laying the groundwork for Mexico that has nothing

1044
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 5: to do. I mean, this is we're talking about cocaine

1045
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 5: in Venezuela, and so.

1046
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: That's that's yeah.

1047
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 5: I think that's the best guesses is because Trump does

1048
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:38,239
Speaker 5: like making deals, but I think he's basically outsourced this

1049
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 5: to Marco Rubio.

1050
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 6: And about half of So if we manage the transition,

1051
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 6: then we can approve you know, who becomes interim president

1052
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 6: leading into the elections, and then we can get somebody

1053
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 6: who's friendly er to the United States. If we don't

1054
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 6: manage the process, if we just drive some kind of

1055
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:04,439
Speaker 6: chaotic region change. About half of Maduro's deputies are much

1056
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:06,879
Speaker 6: friendly er to China.

1057
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 4: Than they are to US.

1058
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, and that's why, and so you might get one

1059
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 6: of them instead, which is why I.

1060
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 5: Think Rubio wants to do a total takeover.

1061
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 6: Again, though with what like who's going to like Machada

1062
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 6: and what army like you're really going to like you're

1063
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 6: going to occupy Venezuela.

1064
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's the US army.

1065
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 5: Part of the Susie Wiles we'll talk more about this

1066
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,240
Speaker 5: in a second, but part of the Susie Wiles Vanity

1067
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 5: Fair story. I'm sure this jumped out to you as well,

1068
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 5: she's saying, we know who's on those boats.

1069
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 1: We have the CIA.

1070
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 5: I'm paraphrasing it, obviously, but she says that to Chris

1071
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 5: Whipple and the Vanity Fair article, and with what army

1072
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:44,959
Speaker 5: is a great question, always has been a great question.

1073
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 5: Could have learned that lesson during the Bay of Pigs.

1074
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 5: But it's I imagine intelligence coming from the CIA, which

1075
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 5: we know has been authorized to operate on the ground

1076
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 5: in Venezuela by the President probably saying you can do.

1077
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 1: This, because that's what happens every damn time.

1078
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 5: You have the people, you have the weak links in

1079
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 5: the military, you can do it.

1080
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:11,280
Speaker 1: And that's my that's my best guess.

1081
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 5: As so why there's the full bravado for total, complete

1082
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 5: and total regime change is that they're once again convinced

1083
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 5: that it's doable and that anything short of that just

1084
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 5: gives a foothold for or leaves a foothold for China

1085
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 5: and Iran and the new Axis of Evil.

1086
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 6: And meanwhile, Trump is gonna get somebody killed in the

1087
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 6: air put up C two. So for the second time,

1088
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 6: civilian aircraft nearly collided, this time with a US Air

1089
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 6: Force tanker. Because all of these American Armada planes are

1090
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 6: flying around the Caribbean with their transponders off ye, not

1091
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 6: communicating with air traffic controllers. And as he said, it's

1092
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 6: the largest force maybe ever or that's been in there.

1093
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 6: And so you have civilian aircraft constantly going through there.

1094
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 6: You know, it's a big sky, and hopefully that none

1095
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 6: of them go down. But this is extremely reckless and

1096
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 6: dangerous and nobody is asking for it, and he hasn't

1097
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 6: even bothered to try to lie much about it. This

1098
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 6: whole like weapons of mass destruction ventanyl thing is like offensively,

1099
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 6: like lazy, like this is what you like it is?

1100
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 6: Maybe they just maybe it's not like we can do

1101
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 6: whatever we want.

1102
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, and I think the best way to think

1103
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 5: about the Venezuela policy is just again President Mark Rubio.

1104
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 5: I think Trump is not as interested as Mark Rubio

1105
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:48,400
Speaker 5: is and this Venezuela regime change. He's been brought on

1106
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 5: board with it because he can use it from a

1107
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 5: kind of pr perspective to say this is the crackdown

1108
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 5: on drugs, even though that is going to be digested

1109
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 5: by every most Americans to be related to fentanyl, and

1110
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 5: this is clearly not related defentanyl. So anyway, all that

1111
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:11,560
Speaker 5: is to say the trip wires right now, when you

1112
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 5: have CIA operating on the in the on the ground

1113
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 5: in Venezuela, when you have the armada, as Trump put it,

1114
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 5: that is we're we are in the middle of a

1115
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 5: recipe for escalation and that Americans could be dying in

1116
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 5: battle over Venezuela and.

1117
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:33,959
Speaker 6: Americans and Americans like could crash into the sea.

1118
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 1: Yes.

1119
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, And they took out another drug boat, alleged drug

1120
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 6: boat just recently. And meanwhile he Zeth is saying he

1121
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 6: will not show the video that he is so proud

1122
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 6: of where they executed these two survivors, and he says

1123
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 6: absolutely the right battle decisions, keeps calling it a battle

1124
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 6: and a battle.

1125
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 4: They don't.

1126
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 6: They're like basically unarmed and you're you're sitting in like

1127
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 6: Florida hitting them with the drone.

1128
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 5: They're not coming and shooting an Americans. They are by

1129
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 5: their own emission, what is their trafficking cocaine, allegedly trafficking

1130
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 5: in cocaine.

1131
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 6: And without the outboard motors to get to the United States,

1132
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 6: like they're they're going somewhere Surinam or wherever Mexico, somewhere

1133
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 6: they're not going to the they're not making it to

1134
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 6: the United States with that. Eventually, maybe they will a

1135
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 6: lot of like cocaine users are hoping they do, right, bro, Like,

1136
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 6: this is what we do here in the United States.

1137
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 4: Why are you killing our supliers to.

1138
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 1: Compare it to kinetic kinetic battle?

1139
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 6: Right, And so he's so proud of it, and he

1140
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 6: would make the decision a thousand times again. But no,

1141
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 6: you can't actually see the footage of it. And oh,

1142
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:45,920
Speaker 6: we've destroyed footage of similar strikes.