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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyon. This is episode number one ninety

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Speaker 1: and tan the show. We are joined by Joe Hamilton's,

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Speaker 1: a wildlife biologist and the founder of the Quality Deer

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Speaker 1: Management Association, and we're gonna be chatting with him about conservation,

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Speaker 1: the q dum A, hunting in the South, and much

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Speaker 1: much more. All Right, welcome to another episode of the

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Speaker 1: Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by Sitka Gear.

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Speaker 1: And today here in a little bit we're gonna be

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Speaker 1: joined by Joe Hamilton's. And Joe is the founder of

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Speaker 1: the Quality Dear Management Association. So he has just a

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Speaker 1: wealth of information. He has a lot of interesting insight

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Speaker 1: into kind of the evolution of the hunting world. Um,

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Speaker 1: so there's gonna be a lot of interesting things to

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Speaker 1: talk about when it comes to that. I want to

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Speaker 1: talk to him a little bit about, you know, hunting

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Speaker 1: and what we've got going on this month here in December.

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Speaker 1: And he's gonna have an interesting perspective there too, because

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Speaker 1: he's down in South Carolina. We don't talk to as

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Speaker 1: many people as we probably should about hunting down the South,

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Speaker 1: so I want to cover that. But then maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: just as important as all of that is the fact

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Speaker 1: that Joe is just a great storyteller. UM. I went

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Speaker 1: down to UM get my dear Steward certification down in

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Speaker 1: Missouri maybe six or seven years ago. It's this course

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Speaker 1: that the Qualitier Management Association puts on, the two day event,

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Speaker 1: and Joe was down there for that, and I just

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Speaker 1: remember sitting there and just being like captivated whenever he talked.

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Speaker 1: He just has that voice and that prey is in

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Speaker 1: UM that just kind of sucks you in and you

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Speaker 1: just want to listen to the guy. So I'm excited

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Speaker 1: just just to listen to the guy today. UM. And

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Speaker 1: he actually has a has a new book out with

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Speaker 1: many of his stories that I think is gonna be

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Speaker 1: pretty cool too. So we'll talk about all those things, UM.

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Speaker 1: But before we do that, before we get to the

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Speaker 1: good storyteller, we need to take a few minutes for

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Speaker 1: some bad storytellers. Me and Me and Dan um with

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Speaker 1: our our weekly preamble, do you have any bad stories

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Speaker 1: Dan that we should cover? To that dude, I was

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Speaker 1: a hardcore drinker for like ten years. Of course I

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Speaker 1: got bad stories. Maybe not those stories. Okay, okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. You know, we often talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about social media greed and their greed and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. Facebook envy, all the Facebook envy. Man,

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Speaker 1: I got it, you diddy. It's like you got a

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Speaker 1: field tag. I got a field tag. What do you get?

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Speaker 1: But guess what the guy who shares the farm with me.

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Speaker 1: I saw a picture of the buck that he shot.

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Speaker 1: And do you remember the buck that I showed you

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of the year, the big eight with

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Speaker 1: the split G two. Is that the one that you missed? No,

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Speaker 1: that's the bigger one of the eights? So but still

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Speaker 1: a giant eight pointer, giant eight part pointer. He ended

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Speaker 1: up shooting it during shotgun season, and and I just

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Speaker 1: was like I had this mix of emotion of awesome, dude,

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Speaker 1: he shot it, glad you know it was a mature buck.

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Speaker 1: You know you want to shoot mature bucks. Whatever. But

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Speaker 1: at the same time, like I got this struggle on

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Speaker 1: the inside going I wish that was me, not necessarily

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Speaker 1: hating on him, but just like, man, I what do

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Speaker 1: I need to do to to hunt more or to

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Speaker 1: you know, expand my opportunities or or whatever, you know,

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Speaker 1: by land, get a second tag, start shotgun hunting, you

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Speaker 1: know whatever, go to another state. I just like, I

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Speaker 1: didn't regret what I did, but I was just like,

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Speaker 1: I want to do more. Oh yeah, that's that's totally understandable.

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Speaker 1: It's man, I know, um, right, when someone else kills

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Speaker 1: a buck, of course we want to be happy for him.

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Speaker 1: We are happy for them, celebrate that. But it is

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Speaker 1: still human to have a little bit of that. Dang.

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Speaker 1: I wish that was me, and it wouldn't have had

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Speaker 1: Like if I don't know, let's say it's a guy

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Speaker 1: you share the proper property with, or your neighbor ends

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Speaker 1: up killing holy Field. Yeah you know this, this isn't

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Speaker 1: my property, This isn't um you know, I don't own it.

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Speaker 1: I had permission to hunt on it just like he does. Um.

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Speaker 1: But it was a buck that I had been following

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Speaker 1: all year. Um, it was a buck that I followed

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Speaker 1: from the previous year as well, and I just was

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Speaker 1: you know, it's almost like I was envisioning myself killing

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Speaker 1: this year, whether it was this year or next year,

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Speaker 1: and then someone else when and did it, um, and

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Speaker 1: it just was like, oh man, I wish that was me.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, I sent the dude an

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Speaker 1: email and I was like, hey, man, congratulations on a

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Speaker 1: stub buck. You know, just that's awesome. And I just

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Speaker 1: asked him, you know, where where did you kill him?

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Speaker 1: Because I wanted to find out more information of how

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Speaker 1: how he was traveling or the deer patterns. And he

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Speaker 1: hasn't gotten back to me yet because I think he's

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Speaker 1: at work, but or he's like or he's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course Dan wants now where it killed him. I'm

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Speaker 1: not giving him mindtel Oh man, man, I know how

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Speaker 1: it goes. It happens. It definitely happens. But so I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about another part of what you said there though,

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Speaker 1: about how you wish you could get out more. How

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Speaker 1: many days did you actually get to hunt this season?

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Speaker 1: Because you tagged out on like day four of your

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Speaker 1: rut vacation. Is that right? Um? Let me pull up

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Speaker 1: a calendar real quick. I can actually tell you I

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Speaker 1: started my rut vacation on what my first night in

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Speaker 1: the tree, Dan officially was Friday the third, and I

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Speaker 1: killed my dear on Wednesday, the eight so two, three,

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Speaker 1: four five, so like five full days of hunting. And

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Speaker 1: then you go back into October and I think I

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Speaker 1: hunted four days so and I was thinking about that too.

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Speaker 1: You know, you bring up a good point like man,

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Speaker 1: three hundred sixty five days in a tree stand and well,

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Speaker 1: I got to go hunt or three sixty five days

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Speaker 1: in a year and my hobby. Yes, there's there's other

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Speaker 1: days like doing mineral trimming out tree stands that may

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Speaker 1: take up four days, checking trail camerons. Let's add two

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Speaker 1: more days, so now you're at five and then that

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Speaker 1: it's like seventeen total days throughout the entire season. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's kind of like, yes, like of the whole year,

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Speaker 1: you just got ten days actually doing the thing that

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Speaker 1: you think about all year, dream about all year, land

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Speaker 1: for all year. Um. I mean, so, how my question

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Speaker 1: do you is, how do we in what I mean we,

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Speaker 1: I mean guys like us who have more more guys

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Speaker 1: like me than guys like to say, I'm a little

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Speaker 1: bit of an outlier, right, but let's say the average Joe,

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Speaker 1: the working guy, the family guy. You know, how how

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Speaker 1: do we then take and show those facts and statistics

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Speaker 1: to our wives or significant others and say, listen, there's

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Speaker 1: three sixty five days in a year, my passion, I

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Speaker 1: got fifteen days to do it. Why are you complaining

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Speaker 1: on fifteen days? You know what I mean? How do

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Speaker 1: we have that conversation? Man? I don't know. I mean

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's it's it's it's that, it's you

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Speaker 1: just have to somehow have a conversation. I don't know

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Speaker 1: the right way to do it. I have struggles with

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Speaker 1: it sometimes too. Um. Now, I I have a kind

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Speaker 1: of a get out of jail free card because I

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Speaker 1: can say it's my career, so I get a lot more.

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Speaker 1: I get a lot more leeway and I than most people.

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Speaker 1: And I understand that. Um, but still it can be

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Speaker 1: a challenge to so for me and Kylie, at least,

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Speaker 1: the best thing has just been like trying to over

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Speaker 1: communicate about things like I need to I need to

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Speaker 1: playing things way out ahead of time. I need to,

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Speaker 1: like I try to consult her on Okay, if I

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Speaker 1: was going to be gone for a week, would it

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Speaker 1: be better this week for you or that week? Or

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Speaker 1: you know, would it be better this year? If I

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Speaker 1: do like three day trips, like three three day trips

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Speaker 1: instead of one ten day trip or different things like that,

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Speaker 1: just trying to find little ways to compromise. Um. But

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know if they had to

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Speaker 1: answer this, UM, I know I'm gonna have it. It's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a new challenge starting next year with having

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Speaker 1: a baby. I know that you've experienced the added pressures

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Speaker 1: of all that. So I think it's I don't know,

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Speaker 1: challenge that we all need to kind of navigate in

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Speaker 1: our own unique way. Oh man, I just like I'm

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Speaker 1: sitting here and people are still out there hunting, and

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Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna be able to get a crack

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Speaker 1: at um some late season hunting, but you know, it's

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Speaker 1: never as good. You just want to experience the good

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Speaker 1: parts of the years as long as humely possible. And

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Speaker 1: I made the I made the decision to shoot a deer,

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Speaker 1: right and and uh that when that happens, that pretty

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Speaker 1: much puts an end to you know, hunting in Iowa,

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Speaker 1: especially if you know for me and and bow hunting. Yes,

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Speaker 1: there's other opportunities, but it's just not the same. Like

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Speaker 1: I could do gun hunting, but I'm not as passionate

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Speaker 1: about gun hunting as I am archery. So I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Have you thought about getting a tag in like Illinois

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Speaker 1: or hunting northern Missouri or western Illinois or something that's

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Speaker 1: not too far away from you, then you can have

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Speaker 1: that added both season time, right right? Yeah, And I've

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Speaker 1: put a lot of thought into it, like going to Nebraska.

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Speaker 1: I mean, even a longer trip is okay with me.

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Speaker 1: It's just that like I think Missouri and I think

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Speaker 1: Nebraska go on thet the uh their firearms steagent season starts,

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Speaker 1: so I don't I don't know if you can bow

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Speaker 1: hunt at the same time as that, but it probably

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be as good. I thought about going over to Illinois,

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Speaker 1: but from what I hear about Illinois, it's similar to Iowa,

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Speaker 1: where there is public ground, but there's not a lot

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Speaker 1: of it. And not to sound arrogant, I've had a

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Speaker 1: lot of people also invite me onto their properties and say, hey, Dan,

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Speaker 1: come hunt, come hunt my property. You can kill whatever

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Speaker 1: you want. I don't want to be that guy, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't wanna you know, I don't want to run

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Speaker 1: into a situation where it's, well, I let you on

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Speaker 1: my property, now you have to let me on your

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Speaker 1: property or I don't want to use whatever status they

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Speaker 1: think I have to go and and kill a big deer. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I've always felt uncomfortable that too. I just like to

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Speaker 1: just would rather do things on my own. And yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: But when I get what you're saying, um man, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I Um, there's something to me to have

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Speaker 1: a blood transfusion with guy, a guy like Andy May. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I get some of his DNA my system and I

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Speaker 1: just walk into the woods and kill big deer. Man.

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Speaker 1: He is a great example, though, of somebody who can,

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Speaker 1: even with a family, even with a job that does

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Speaker 1: not give him like almost any vacation time, he still

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Speaker 1: has been able to find a way to fit in

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Speaker 1: short out of state trips and get it done. Um.

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Speaker 1: He's a He's a great example, that's for sure. So

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Speaker 1: I had a short out of state trip that I

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Speaker 1: kind of want to talk about real quick here before

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Speaker 1: we get Joe on. Are you are you interested here

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Speaker 1: about that? Uh? Yeah, because you sent me a picture

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Speaker 1: of a really good looking buck on trail camera going

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Speaker 1: after him tonight and then I didn't hear anything about it.

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Speaker 1: So what's the deal, all right? So, um, you know

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Speaker 1: you've followed my hunting season all season with me as

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Speaker 1: we've talked about things the hunt for holy Field and

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Speaker 1: how it was always like I would hunt one spot.

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Speaker 1: In the next day, I'd be somewhere different, but he'd

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Speaker 1: be there, or he'd be one spot, I'd go there

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Speaker 1: the next day and he was somewhere else. That kind

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Speaker 1: of thing, you know, over and over and over again.

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Speaker 1: Um well, my Ohio season now has taken that turn

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Speaker 1: as well. So get this. I've got four days to

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Speaker 1: spend in Ohio. I was in Seattle for two days

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Speaker 1: last week when we talked last. I got home late

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Speaker 1: Wednesday night, early Thursday morning, I load up the truck

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Speaker 1: drive to Ohio. My goal was to get to Ohio

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Speaker 1: and time to get out to hunt that first night.

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Speaker 1: So I get there and I'm getting all my stuff ready.

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Speaker 1: Um no, we talked about this all right here, right,

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Speaker 1: we did talk about this. Um So that first night,

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Speaker 1: right I wanted to head out, but the landowner locked

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Speaker 1: his keys in the van. We talked about that, yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: So that was night number one, So I basically didn't

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Speaker 1: get to hunt at all. I just walked to the

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Speaker 1: edge of the field and watched for the last like

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Speaker 1: forty minutes of the night. Night number one, bad luck

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Speaker 1: of keys getting locked in the landowners truck caused me

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Speaker 1: to miss on that hunt. All right, So night number

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Speaker 1: two I get there, I head in, get too much

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Speaker 1: stand um long story shirt and that night is that

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Speaker 1: towards like the last half hour forty five minutes of daylight.

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Speaker 1: I spot a really nice buck walking um away from

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Speaker 1: me on the other side of this finger of timber. Imagine, um,

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Speaker 1: all of the stories I'm gonna tell you these next

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Speaker 1: three days all involved this one little spot. Hold up

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Speaker 1: your hand and make a peace sign, but facing you,

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Speaker 1: facing you, so you've got the peace sign up you

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Speaker 1: at that v um. Imagine the palm of your hand

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Speaker 1: and the two fingers sticking up that is a corn field.

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Speaker 1: And then the fingers are fingers of that corn sticking up. Okay,

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Speaker 1: and then the space in between the peace sign, that

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Speaker 1: gap there is a finger of timber. All right, can

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Speaker 1: you vision I'm looking at it? Okay. So on night

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Speaker 1: number two, the first night I'm actually able to hunt,

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting on the western finger of corn um, on

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Speaker 1: the western edge of that timber finger that's sticking down.

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Speaker 1: All right, Okay, quick quick question is the corn picked

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Speaker 1: corners picked? Okay, okay, continue. So I'm sitting there and

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Speaker 1: like I said, like half hour before dark, big Buck

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Speaker 1: shows up. But he had come from the eastern finger

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Speaker 1: of corn heading south and walked straight down into the palm,

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Speaker 1: into the palm of my hand, and then onto the neighbors.

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Speaker 1: All that time period either behind the trees so I

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Speaker 1: couldn't get a shot or out of range. So night

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Speaker 1: number three, I said, all right, I'm gonna try to

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Speaker 1: hunt in that area where he came out, and let

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Speaker 1: me take a step back. After that hunt, I pulled

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Speaker 1: trail cameras and one of the camera cards had him

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Speaker 1: on camera passing by a tree stand I have right

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Speaker 1: there um where he came out, so I had him

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Speaker 1: on camera and then I saw him like ten minutes

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Speaker 1: later when he was out in the field and had

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Speaker 1: a tree stand right there. So night number three, Now

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go and I'm going to relocate and hunt.

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Speaker 1: Now again, we're looking at our peace sign right where

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Speaker 1: the two corn fingers come together at the end of

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Speaker 1: that timbered point. I was gonna sit in ground right

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Speaker 1: there so that if he came out the same place

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Speaker 1: he did last night, I would have a shot at him.

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Speaker 1: I would shoot into that inside corner, or if he

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Speaker 1: came out on the western finger, like other deer have

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Speaker 1: done the past, I could shoot there too, and the

282
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Speaker 1: wind was good for that. So I'm getting I left

283
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Speaker 1: hotel room, I'm driving to my property, and about five

284
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Speaker 1: minutes before I get to the property, I all of

285
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Speaker 1: a sudden had this horrible sinking feeling in my gut

286
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Speaker 1: when I realized I left my scent crusher bag with

287
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Speaker 1: all of my hunting clothes in it in the hotel

288
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Speaker 1: room thirty thirty five to four de minutes away. So

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I have to go back. I have no

290
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Speaker 1: hunting clothing at all. And that the reason why I

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Speaker 1: take it out of my truck was because to to

292
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Speaker 1: to run this thing, you need to be plugged in,

293
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,520
Speaker 1: and you can plug it into your car and um

294
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Speaker 1: use like a cigarette adapter, and so I tried to

295
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Speaker 1: do that. So I had it in the front seat

296
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Speaker 1: of my truck. I turned it on and was running

297
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Speaker 1: when I was driving home the night before. But like

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Speaker 1: I've heard, it's not a good I did have that

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Speaker 1: ozone in a closed space. Um, and I was like,

300
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Speaker 1: you know, I don't like running this thing while I'm

301
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Speaker 1: in here. Um, so I'm not gonna do this, So

302
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:05,840
Speaker 1: I'll just take it into the hotel room tonight, plug

303
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,240
Speaker 1: into the wall, run it real quick there, and then

304
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,280
Speaker 1: use it next day. But long story short, I, you know,

305
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,120
Speaker 1: taking a step back, I say long story short way

306
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:20,280
Speaker 1: too much, and then I keep talking. I don't I

307
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,560
Speaker 1: don't end up making it a short story. I've caught

308
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Speaker 1: myself doing it. It's like my other that being said,

309
00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:32,960
Speaker 1: that's right, So that being said, long story short. Um,

310
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Speaker 1: I realized I don't have any of my hunting clothing,

311
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Speaker 1: so I have to turn around, drive all the way back,

312
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Speaker 1: minutes back to hotel room get my gear. I finally

313
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Speaker 1: get back to the property an hour and fifteen minutes

314
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Speaker 1: or something like that later. It's now very late, but

315
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna try. So I'm sneaking into the property. And

316
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Speaker 1: of course, when I get to within sight of that

317
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Speaker 1: spot that I want to sit, there's already doze out

318
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Speaker 1: feeding there, so I can't. I can't get there, so

319
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Speaker 1: I hunker down. I crawl on the edge of the

320
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,159
Speaker 1: oppositie of the field up to the spot where these

321
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,400
Speaker 1: deer had came across the night before. So I thought, well,

322
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Speaker 1: if these deer come out where they did last year,

323
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Speaker 1: if they continue traveling, they'd eventually crossed the field and

324
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Speaker 1: come by me. Well, of course that didn't happen. Um,

325
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Speaker 1: but a big buck stepped out right where the buck

326
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Speaker 1: did the night before, and I would have been able

327
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Speaker 1: to get a shot at him if I was sitting

328
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Speaker 1: where I wanted to be, but of course I couldn't,

329
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Speaker 1: so I had to watch him stay right there. He

330
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Speaker 1: didn't travel across the field to where I was at.

331
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Speaker 1: He stayed right there, and I just had to sit there,

332
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Speaker 1: kicking myself for forgetting my clothing and not being able

333
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:36,480
Speaker 1: to be set up where I wanted to be set up.

334
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Speaker 1: And then and then not only that that was bad enough,

335
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,679
Speaker 1: but then it's like it's after dark and the bucks

336
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:43,399
Speaker 1: still at their feeding and some does come out. So

337
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, I'm just gonna stay here, be quiet,

338
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,080
Speaker 1: and let them move off so I don't spook them,

339
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:49,720
Speaker 1: and then maybe tomorrow night I can get a shot.

340
00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:51,720
Speaker 1: So I'm sitting there. I'm sitting there, and I keep

341
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,400
Speaker 1: on hearing a noise behind me, getting closer and closer,

342
00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,040
Speaker 1: and then I turned I'm thinking, okay, there's some kind

343
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,840
Speaker 1: of critter coming up closer, and I finally see, like

344
00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,120
Speaker 1: five yards away from me is a possum, a really

345
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,439
Speaker 1: big possum. And I'm sitting on the ground, like not

346
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:05,919
Speaker 1: in a blind or on a chair. I'm just on

347
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,440
Speaker 1: the ground, and this possum keeps getting closer and closer

348
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,080
Speaker 1: and closer. Finally he's like three yards or four yards away,

349
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:13,879
Speaker 1: and I'm like, all right, this thing's gonna walk right

350
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:15,680
Speaker 1: over top of me. I need to scare him away.

351
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,320
Speaker 1: So I start like shaking some leaves and making like

352
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,159
Speaker 1: just making some like noises at him to try to

353
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,240
Speaker 1: scare him away, like make him realize that there's a

354
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,200
Speaker 1: big thing here he doesn't want to come towards. Instead

355
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,359
Speaker 1: of that scaring him away, he starts hissing and he

356
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:32,520
Speaker 1: charges me. I'm charged by a possum. I'm laying on

357
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Speaker 1: the ground basically, and this thing is coming right at

358
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Speaker 1: my face, so I'm like forced to jump up and

359
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,840
Speaker 1: like try to kick at him so I'm not attacked

360
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,640
Speaker 1: by a rabid possum. Did you kick him? I didn't

361
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,000
Speaker 1: kick him. He stopped before. But I mean right there,

362
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,000
Speaker 1: it was like just about to have to kick a

363
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,520
Speaker 1: possum in the face. Oh man, I've done that. Did

364
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,560
Speaker 1: you really I've kicked a possum. Well, it didn't quite

365
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 1: come to that, but but it was. It was almost

366
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Speaker 1: end of blows. But of course, because I had to

367
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,920
Speaker 1: jump up to fight off this possum, it's spooked. It's

368
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:01,879
Speaker 1: booked to those doughs on the other side of the field,

369
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,440
Speaker 1: and they took off um, and so it kind of

370
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,840
Speaker 1: alerted that buck. He stayed there but just staring in

371
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:08,840
Speaker 1: my direction for a long time. So I kind of

372
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,760
Speaker 1: spooked those deer, which is upsetting to me. So not

373
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,240
Speaker 1: only did I not get a shot at him, but

374
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,200
Speaker 1: then because of a possum attack, I spooked these deers.

375
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Speaker 1: So that was night number three. Night number four, I'm like,

376
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Speaker 1: all right, there's no way I'm not going to get

377
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:23,880
Speaker 1: into this spot I've wanted to hunt. I'm gonna get

378
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,119
Speaker 1: there really early. I'm not gonna forget my clothes, I'm

379
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,080
Speaker 1: gonna avoid possums. I'm gonna get to the finger of

380
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,040
Speaker 1: this timber. I'm gonna get set up there and I'll

381
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:32,800
Speaker 1: be able to shoot to this inside corner where this

382
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,880
Speaker 1: buck has come out. The last two nights I get there,

383
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,680
Speaker 1: I'm all set up. I'm thinking this is looking good,

384
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,040
Speaker 1: that the evenings coming along very well. And then an

385
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,560
Speaker 1: hour before dark, I spotted movement out in the field

386
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,000
Speaker 1: right where I was sitting the night before. And there's

387
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,720
Speaker 1: this stupid big eight pointer comes running out from right

388
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 1: where I was at the night before, and then comes

389
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 1: running across the field the opposite direction where I can't

390
00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,600
Speaker 1: shoot him either. So it's just in that kind of season, man, man,

391
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,880
Speaker 1: you have literally been in the wrong place every every time.

392
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:13,359
Speaker 1: I mean, I cannot catch a break. And it's just

393
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:15,760
Speaker 1: maybe it just reaffirms what all of our listeners have

394
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 1: been thinking for years now, that I'm just one of

395
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:25,160
Speaker 1: the world's worst deer hunters. Uh. Yeah, So that was disappointing,

396
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,280
Speaker 1: but it was nice to see a good buck um

397
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,359
Speaker 1: three nights in a row. You know, I'm not entirely

398
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,160
Speaker 1: sure if it was the same deer all three nights.

399
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,200
Speaker 1: I think it was a different deer um at least

400
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 1: two of the nights um, but it was always was

401
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,639
Speaker 1: a nice eight point like somewhere in that like probably

402
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,159
Speaker 1: four year old, maybe like one thirty ish, maybe a

403
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:47,960
Speaker 1: little bigger eight pointer type deer. This say, muzzle loader hunt.

404
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 1: This was yep, it was the season, so they were

405
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,360
Speaker 1: still when they came out, they were still too far

406
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 1: for you to shoot. Yeah, Like that first night, by

407
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,920
Speaker 1: the time he cleared the trees, he was probably to

408
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,240
Speaker 1: fifty or something like, they're three with my muzzleloader. I'm

409
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 1: not shooting past one. Um. And then the second night

410
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 1: he was, yeah, probably about the same distance, but I

411
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,920
Speaker 1: was looking at from the opposite direction. And then um,

412
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 1: the final night he maybe was like one seventy, maybe

413
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 1: somewhere around that range, but he was running by the

414
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: time I saw him, kind of running across the field

415
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,240
Speaker 1: and then disappeared into the timber on the other way.

416
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:29,920
Speaker 1: So no shots. Well, I don't know, I don't even

417
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 1: know what to tell you, man, Just like, maybe you

418
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: should just go back to basics. And when I mean basics,

419
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 1: I mean no knowledge of hunting at all, and just

420
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 1: go to the same tree stand the exact same time,

421
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 1: the exact same tree stand for like five days in

422
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 1: a row. That's that's exactly what I was thinking. I'm like,

423
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 1: you know what, screw all this like keeping the deer

424
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,199
Speaker 1: on their feet, I'm gonna trick them by never changing.

425
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,920
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna sit the same spot the whole rest

426
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,680
Speaker 1: of the season. I'm gonna pick one spot and hunting

427
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 1: like twenty days in a row, just do the complete

428
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 1: opposite of what any half decent deer hunter would do.

429
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 1: And that was what we talk about. Yeah, they've maybe

430
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 1: these deer figure us out. They know our our new

431
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 1: tactics and uh, their head evolution, right, I mean deer

432
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,879
Speaker 1: have to evolve to survive, whether that's you know, becoming

433
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, exactly. I mean maybe maybe holy Field

434
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 1: has a is a subscriber to the Wired to Hunt podcast.

435
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 1: That would explain a lot this year. Oh man, you

436
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: see him the next time you see him, you actually

437
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,880
Speaker 1: put put him in the buy notes. You're like earbuds

438
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 1: in his ears. He's got the new AirPods. Oh man. Yeah, so,

439
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: um so that's my story. That's Ohio. I'm gonna start

440
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 1: hunting Michigan now again tomorrow though we got a cold

441
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 1: front that just came through today. I'm gonna get after

442
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: and um I have one piece of good news to

443
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: share with you today. Twins your wife you havn't twins? No, no, twins?

444
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 1: Um better news than that. Well, I don't mean that

445
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,120
Speaker 1: would be great, I guess, but it also be very scary. Um.

446
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: The baby is doing very well though, by the way,

447
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: good good, yeah, coming along very well. We're down to

448
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: the final like ten weeks or something like that. Um.

449
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: But the good news is that as of last Friday,

450
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:34,679
Speaker 1: which was the day after Michigan's gun season, yea, I

451
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:40,360
Speaker 1: had visual confirmation nice that holy Field had made it nice.

452
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:45,880
Speaker 1: So the big guy as a Friday was still alive. Um.

453
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 1: Now muzzle otter season opened that next day, so of

454
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 1: course there's still some people out there, but much fewer, much,

455
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 1: much less of a chance of him being killed. So right,

456
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: So that whole sanctuary theory that you've that we've discussed here,

457
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: you're that you're going to stay off of it. Uh,

458
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 1: you've stayed off of it, and hopefully he's found sanctuary

459
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: on your on your farm. Yeah. I mean that's that's

460
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: why I think I think that I think that probably

461
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: had a big, big part and why he was able

462
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 1: to survive because he has that place he can hunker

463
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: down in. And not only did he survive, but then

464
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 1: also the three year old that I've been praying would survive,

465
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 1: the buck I'm calling survivor. Um, he made it too.

466
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: So the two best bucks ahead of my property this year,

467
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 1: both of them made it through firearms season. So that's

468
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 1: really encouraging, and UM gives me something to be excited

469
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: about for this late season with holy Field, and gives

470
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: me something to be excited about for next year with

471
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: a survivor. UM. So I'm gonna get out there tomorrow

472
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 1: night with his cold front, assume the wind stays good

473
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 1: for me, and UM hunt him the next couple of

474
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 1: days with these really cold temperatures and hopefully finally we'll

475
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: have a happy story to share. Yeah. Absolutely, man. I

476
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: don't know how many guys out there are pulling for

477
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: you still, but I'm pulling for you. And uh, you know,

478
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 1: if you get any more mature bucks on your property,

479
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: you're probably gonna have to open an outfitting business. I

480
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: don't know about that. I don't know if if one

481
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: mature buck would draw that many people, but it's enough

482
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 1: for me, that's right, So I guess On that note,

483
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: we should probably wrap this up. We've had a pretty

484
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 1: long intro here, UM, so let's take a break for

485
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 1: our sickest story and then we'll get Joe on the

486
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: line and then UM, hopefully next week, we'll have a

487
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: story share. For this week's Sikest story, we're joined by

488
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 1: Jordan Miller of Runda Gun, who's gonna be telling us

489
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,199
Speaker 1: about an elk hunt that ended at ten steps. One

490
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 1: of my favorite sitcom moments was this year down in

491
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: New Mexico through a really good archery unit, and we

492
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: had six days hunt. We used all six. We were

493
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: down there. On the last day, hiked into one of

494
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 1: my buddy Justin's favorite spots, hiking about mile and a

495
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 1: half on this long ridge, and finally got this bull

496
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: to google we had. We had a man. We pulled

497
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 1: them all the way into about four and fifty yards.

498
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: He just hung up in some brush. We called his

499
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: cows all the way past us, and he just busted out.

500
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 1: We had one last chance to get up on him,

501
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: and we broke down the mountain, cut up this next

502
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,959
Speaker 1: ridge and we heard another bowl bugling. We got up

503
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: right in between them. Justin made one little cow call

504
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: and that bowl we were after he came just tarned

505
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: down the side of the mountain to get up to

506
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: that other bowl, and a little did we know it

507
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: that he was gonna work about ten steps from us.

508
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 1: Quartered right in took a shot. Had been practicing my

509
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: bowl all this summer long at about a hundred yards

510
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 1: just to get ready for fifty yards, and we drilled

511
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: the six by seven public Land bowl at ten steps.

512
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 1: One of my absolute favorite sick of moments on Jordan's hunt.

513
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: He was wearing sickst Mountain pants and Mountain vest. If

514
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: you'd like to create a sick Oft story of your own,

515
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 1: or to learn more about Sitka's technical hunting apparel, visit

516
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: sitkin gear dot com. Alright with me, now is Joe

517
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: Hamilton's Welcome to the show. Joe. Thanks Mark, I'm very

518
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,719
Speaker 1: happy to be here. Yeah, and I'm excited to have

519
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: you on here as well. And I mentioned before we

520
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: started recording, actually as I did the introduction to the podcast,

521
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: that when I went through the Q dam made Dear

522
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: Steward course maybe five or six years ago. Now, I

523
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: was um, and you were there. We were down in

524
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:33,360
Speaker 1: northern Missouri, and I just became captivated by your stories.

525
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: Every time you were were talking to the group or

526
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: sharing a story or experience. UM, I just kind of

527
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: found myself just fully engaged in, so interested in what

528
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 1: you had to say. So so because of that I've

529
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 1: been particularly excited to make this episode happen because I

530
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: know our our listeners are going to enjoy the same thing.

531
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: So so that that being said, I guess before we

532
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: dive into the many different topics I was hoping we

533
00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: could cover, could you just could you just kind of

534
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 1: us up to speed on how you got to this point, um,

535
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: maybe maybe especially what you did before the k d

536
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 1: M A, and then we could dive a little bit

537
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 1: more deeply into that story. But but what was Joe

538
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: Hamilton's doing in the years that led up to that moment? Well,

539
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 1: in the very early years, starting at age nine, became

540
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: a hunter and that led me to the University of

541
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: Georgia to get a degree in forestry and then to

542
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,959
Speaker 1: follow that up with a master's degree in wildlife biology,

543
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: and I specialized in black bear project from my master's thesis.

544
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: And then I came to work in South Carolina as

545
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: a deer of research biologists in nineteen seventy nine and

546
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: spent seven years living in a deer pin and conducting

547
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: a variety of research projects. Most notably was the production

548
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: of the scale for aging fetuses was the biggest part

549
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: of that long time project. And then I moved then

550
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: from the northeastern part of the coastal area down to

551
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: the southeastern corner the deer rich low country and became

552
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: a regional biologist, And in that capacity, I was working

553
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: not just with deer but all species of wildlife, but

554
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: focusing on deer because I had nearly eight hundred properties

555
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: that I dealt with directly on what we called at

556
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: that time the ant earlst Deer quote program, uh better

557
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: known is the dough quote program and a little a

558
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: little different there for our state. In most states, and

559
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: that we issued ant reless tags or dough tags two properties,

560
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: and I had to stay up with those properties each

561
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: year and decide how many ant reless tags they were

562
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: to get in all the while I was helping them

563
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: out with changing their perspective on buck harvests. H two

564
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: take more bucks to the older age classes before they

565
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: were harvested. And I think the things that it's really

566
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: important here is that in the eastern part of South

567
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: Carolina then and even now, we have a four and

568
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: a half month season up until this year with no

569
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: buck limit whatsoever, and we do have for the first

570
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: time around a buck limit this year, and it's going

571
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: quite well limited five, which is still quite liberal, but

572
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: that's what that's what I got involved with professionally in

573
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: those early years, and and then uh from the mid eighties.

574
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: For the next few years, I had more and more

575
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: requests from hunters who had tired of shooting a lot

576
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: of young bucks, and they were scerned that answered development

577
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: was down and and the body weights were down. It

578
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,479
Speaker 1: was because nearly of their annual harvest was made up

579
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: by year and a half old bucks. So they said,

580
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: what can we do to make a difference, to crawl

581
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: out of this hole we've dug for ourselves. But it's

582
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: very timely that in one I had met Al Brothers,

583
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: who is the co author of the very famous book

584
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: Producing Quality White Tales, which came out in nineteen I

585
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: met Al in Texas, spent a few days with him,

586
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: and then the next year I was one of the

587
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: co hosts for the Southeast Dear Study Group meeting. That's

588
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: a group that had just started four years before that,

589
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: consisting of professionals from about sixteen or seventeen Southeastern states.

590
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: While we were having this meeting in Charleston, South Carolina,

591
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: and it was my duty to come up with a

592
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: keynote speaker. So, with the new interests in turning tradition

593
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: around in the low country and now my connection to Al,

594
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: I invited him to come to that meeting, our fifth

595
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: annual Southeast Deer Study Group meeting, and deliver the keynote address. Well,

596
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: he's quite a deal maker, he thought for a minute.

597
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: He said, Jose, I will be there. I'll even come

598
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: a few days early and I'll stay a few days

599
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: after the main meeting as long as you can assure

600
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: that I'll have a group to talk with every night.

601
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: And the other part of that deal is you normally

602
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: have a hundred and fifty professional people at that meeting.

603
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: If you'll promise me you'll have a hundred and fifty

604
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: deer hunters to match those numbers, I'll be there. And

605
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: you gotta You've got to know that our brothers is

606
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: a man of commitment. He is these rock solid biologically.

607
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: He had a misfortune in doing a deer survey from

608
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: a helicopter a few years before that broke his back

609
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: and his legs were paralyzed. Didn't slow him down, though.

610
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: What I wanted to point out was he drove a

611
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: pickup truck using hand controls all the way from Lolaredo,

612
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: Texas to Charleston, South Carolina, just to give that keynote

613
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: address and to meet with select groups of hunters. So

614
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: when any kind of a leader shows that kind of

615
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: conviction to a cause, it's easy to fall in line

616
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: and follow that person. So that was sort of the

617
00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: beginning of the idea of quality deer management. UH infused

618
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: into the thought processes of our deer hunters here in

619
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:10,359
Speaker 1: the southeastern part of South Carolina, and UH fortunately there

620
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: were enough people with large enough acreages to start UH

621
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,760
Speaker 1: on equality deer management approach and then made a difference

622
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: pretty quickly, and the doubting Thomas's that were near them

623
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: the fell in line pretty quickly said, M seems to

624
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: be working for you, maybe we can try it as well.

625
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,959
Speaker 1: The bottom line is several years after that, we then

626
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 1: had nearly three million acres in the eastern part of

627
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 1: South Carolina or quality deer management guidelines, and that was

628
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: done voluntarily, just despite the long season and the liberal

629
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 1: buck limits. So that's that's my history with with my

630
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 1: profession and with quality deer management. We've got enough people

631
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 1: involved in those early years that we needed to organize them.

632
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: So in nineteen eight, we started to South Carolina Quality

633
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 1: Deer Management Association. Interest went beyond our state borders very quickly,

634
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: so we decided to drop the South Carolina from our name,

635
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: and we ultimately became the Quality of Deer Management Association,

636
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: which we are now with members in all fifty states,

637
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 1: half a dozen parts in countries and most of the

638
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 1: Canadian provinces, nearly sixty thousand members and going strong. Here

639
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: we are, here you are. That's it's pretty incredible to

640
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: hear how you know, some some personal relationships and some

641
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: different things that that can lead to something that has

642
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: has grown to such a such a powerful and positive

643
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 1: force within the hunting community today. What were those what

644
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 1: were those early years like when you guys first founded

645
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: the Quality Deer Management Association. What were you guys trying

646
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: to achieve at that point? And you know, how did

647
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,359
Speaker 1: it grow from there to such a you know, substantial

648
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: organization now. But we had some obstacles to overcome. As

649
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 1: I mentioned, nearly nine of our buck harvest was comprised

650
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: of year and a half old bucks. The other problem

651
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: was there was a reluctance among most of these deer

652
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: hunters to take any female deer that went very much

653
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: against tradition. And even when I moved to this county

654
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 1: that I live in now, there were petitions circulating for

655
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 1: people to sign to make it illegal to shoot those

656
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: in this county. UM that was that was a hurdle.

657
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: Got around that through education. UM. I decided that I

658
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,280
Speaker 1: would start a radio program that I did once a week.

659
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: I wrote prolifically for magazines and local newspapers. The biologists

660
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: that I talked with, and I decided we'd have a

661
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: contest see if we could average giving a talk a week.

662
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 1: And we did that, and in the course of a

663
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: couple of years, we contacted thousands of people, and we

664
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: we had those pioneers that that contacted us initially that

665
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 1: wanted to make some change. Today, n only started passing

666
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: up young bucks. They started taking a number of ant

667
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: with the steer, and their neighbors saw very quickly things

668
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: seemed to be working for you pretty well. Your body weights,

669
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 1: you're getting better, your answer development is sticking up because

670
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: you're shooting older bucks. That's that's kind of how it started.

671
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 1: And it took years to get people to harvest enough

672
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,800
Speaker 1: antler list here to keep their dear heart in balance

673
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: with the habitat conditions. But all the while bucks were

674
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 1: getting older, the hunters were going from one level of

675
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: management to the next. All we were trying to do

676
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: initially was take a significant portion of the year and

677
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: a half old bucks to two and a half before

678
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: they were harvested. And then when when hunters got involved

679
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: in that approach, they decided, well, we'll just start taking

680
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: more to the three and a half year old category,

681
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: and you know, the rest is history. There are people

682
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: now that are taking deer, and not on the basis

683
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: of the kind of answers they have, but the shape

684
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: of their bodies. They're they're shooting four and a half

685
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: and five and a half year old bucks regardless of

686
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 1: their ant development, and the hunters are happy that they

687
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: are healthy and things are working pretty well. The other

688
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: factor that started to come into play in those early

689
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: days was the idea that maybe we can do something

690
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: with habitat and can create food plots and and they'll

691
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: work more with our foresters and and try to integrate

692
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 1: forestry and widlife management and and even work on falla

693
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 1: fields and try to make them productive. Craig Harper at

694
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: the University of Tennessee, of course, is a great proponent

695
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: of that, trying to manage old fields for natural vegetation,

696
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: which they have been making a living on for forever.

697
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: And so it's all come together. And I think the

698
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: thing to really boast about now is it's not so

699
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 1: much the size of our organization. We're sixty thousand strong,

700
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: but the impact of our educational efforts has been nationwide. Uh.

701
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: It's uh to the point that in nineteen there were

702
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: more ant erless deer harvested that year than antwerd. That

703
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: came only through education and persistence and and just driving

704
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: that message home that that's what the deer herd needed

705
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: fairly even sex ratio numbers in balance with the habitat conditions.

706
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 1: And and then a few years after that, Uh, we've

707
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 1: been we've been tracking the percent of year and a

708
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: half old bucks in the harvest since about eighty nine,

709
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 1: and at that time when we started, it was approaching

710
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: nation and wide. UM. A couple of years ago, Uh,

711
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 1: that number bottomed out at around thirty of the bucks

712
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: killed that year, and and then a little bit higher

713
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: percent of three and a half year old bucks were harvested.

714
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 1: And that happened for two years in a row, and

715
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: I would assume this this past year, it'll it'll probably

716
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: hold truth that we're harvesting more three and a half

717
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: and the older bucks than year and a half old bucks.

718
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 1: I don't see that changing uh backwards, that it would

719
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: more than likely just get better and better. But but

720
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 1: the the impact of our educational efforts UH is really

721
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 1: something to boast about. We've we're very proud that our

722
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 1: education has had gone to that point and so the

723
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,280
Speaker 1: deer herd has benefitted from there, and certainly deer hunters

724
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 1: have as well. Absolutely, So what do you think about then,

725
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: where where the QT may where the Quality Deer Management

726
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: Association is today, given some of these goals being accomplished

727
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 1: that you just mentioned, how do you feel about where

728
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 1: the organization and you know, the impacts of the organization

729
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 1: are today, and then what do you think about the

730
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: future where things going? What kind of impact can the

731
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: QT you may have in the years to come. Uh.

732
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned that mark because we are at

733
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 1: a turning point. We have have proven that with our

734
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 1: our educational capacity and are the variety of programs that

735
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: we have that we can UH meet the challenges of

736
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:55,280
Speaker 1: the present and and we've done that we've we've helped

737
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: uh take more bucks of the older age classes. We've

738
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: helped balance sex right shows, helped balance deer numbers with

739
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: habitat conditions. What we're looking at now, AH, would be

740
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 1: a relatively long list of changes that that some are

741
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: even accelerating. For example, we just kind of survey the

742
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 1: results of survey recently that the US Fishing Rally Service

743
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:28,720
Speaker 1: conducts every five years, and in the last five years

744
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: we have lost over two million deer hunters. UM. So

745
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 1: we were at a hive a few years ago, maybe

746
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 1: fourteen and a half or so million, and we're down

747
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 1: I think it's two point one million deer hunters. Uh.

748
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:51,280
Speaker 1: There are several reasons for that number. One. Uh people

749
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 1: are the baby boomers are aging out of being very

750
00:43:55,160 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: actively involved in hunting. Number two things go on our

751
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: own is we have a problem with recruitment of young

752
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: hunters into deer hunting because there's so many diversions sports,

753
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 1: especially or keeping kids busy these days, and and so

754
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: we have lower recruitment and lower retention. So we're gonna

755
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 1: have to face those problems. We have predator problems that

756
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 1: are seems to be uh that they're getting worse by

757
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: the year. And it's not just coyotes, it's black bears

758
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: are on the increase, and in some cases bobcats are

759
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: as well. But the coyote is the one animal that

760
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: sort of changed my life as a biologist in the Southeast.

761
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: When I first encountered them in the late seventies, I

762
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,760
Speaker 1: told the people around me, I said, well, mother nature

763
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 1: will solve that problem, because if if you have a

764
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 1: A nine in this part of the world, it's not

765
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 1: on heartworm tablets, They're not gonna last long. And then

766
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: there's parvo virus, there's rabies, distemper uh on down the

767
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 1: line nine. There are a lot of things that will

768
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: keep these codes from being very effective as predators. Boy

769
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: was I wrong on that. Uh That we still don't

770
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: have many cootes dying of old age, but they can

771
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 1: do enough damage in their first few years to change

772
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: our lives as deer managers, and they have. In those

773
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 1: early years, we were complacent realizing that the deer herd,

774
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 1: the females are having more, averaging more than one fond

775
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 1: per dough. Now in some areas and even in my neighborhood. Uh,

776
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,720
Speaker 1: it takes three or four doughs to bring one fond

777
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: into the faull population. And that's that's the deafennition of recruitment.

778
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: It's the number of farns, not that are just born

779
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 1: in the summer, but those that are actually recruited into

780
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: the fall population. So we've had to change our entire

781
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:17,720
Speaker 1: way of thinking about prescribing deer harvest on an annual basis.

782
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: We've had to pull the range back a little bit

783
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:25,399
Speaker 1: on being so aggressive at harvesting does. Um We've had

784
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: to focus on the time of the year those does

785
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: are taken. I've been a proponent of now taking adult

786
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: does late in the season to lengthen that that parental

787
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: bond between the dough and the fond, to give the

788
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 1: fond that much more of a jump start for future survival.

789
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: So we've had a lot of changes to make in

790
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: the face of this new predator. There are places Pennsylvania,

791
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: for example, where the bare population is still in increasing

792
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 1: and the study had done a few years ago indicated

793
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: that black bears actually killed more funds than did the coyotes.

794
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:15,280
Speaker 1: Not many more. I mean it was like fifteen funds

795
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: killed by bears and fourteen killed by code. He is

796
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: just in one area, but UH still bears are on

797
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 1: the increase in numbers and in their occupied range. North

798
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,720
Speaker 1: Carolina is a good example of bears extending their range,

799
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: especially in the eastern part of the state from those

800
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: coastal counties, moving more and more inland, and bears have

801
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: been proven to be very effective predators of funds. So

802
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:46,879
Speaker 1: those are some of the changes we've had to deal

803
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 1: with and and we are as an organization going to

804
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 1: be really pushing more and more research to find out

805
00:47:56,280 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 1: more about the effect of these predators on dear popular lations.

806
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: We've got to do all we can to work with

807
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:08,839
Speaker 1: mentoring programs to bring more kids on board to hang

808
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: onto those that we have. And so we've got new

809
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 1: challenges to face. We've got disease problems that are tied

810
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 1: maybe indirectly to the captive deer industry. Chronic wasting disease,

811
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 1: it's the main disease that we're concerned about. That's a

812
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: disease it's always fatal. Once the deer gets it, UH

813
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 1: does not live through it, and all the violets alive.

814
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 1: It sheds preons UH into the soil that can affect

815
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:51,240
Speaker 1: other deer. And we're having to watch that very closely.

816
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: It also seems that that a disease we've been living

817
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 1: with here for forever was e H D or episodic

818
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 1: hemorrhagic disease. That's a viral disease that's transmitted by the

819
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 1: little no sea of gnats. That disease is spreading northward

820
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 1: and westward north northwestward into areas that here tooford had

821
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:23,439
Speaker 1: no experience for that disease. And when it does move

822
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: into a new area, those deer have no background, no

823
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 1: anybody's built up, and it really hits them hard. So

824
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: they're experiencing, especially in the northeast in the last few years.

825
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 1: I think two thousand and twelve is a particularly bad year.

826
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,720
Speaker 1: And then maybe another couple of years ago of fifty

827
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 1: sev of some local deer populations were lost to that disease.

828
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 1: But we don't see near that degree of mortality in

829
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 1: the southeast because our dear have history with the disease.

830
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 1: There are some new problems though that uh. There are

831
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:06,879
Speaker 1: a variety of the stereotypes of disease, and we keep

832
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: seeing new Seraho types pop up, and and these even

833
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: in the Southeast, are causing higher mortality because the deer

834
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 1: have no history with that stereotype of the virus. So yeah,

835
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: our future is is UH clouded with obstacles. But again,

836
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: there's no better organization around than the QT M A

837
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 1: or to identify and to face those those obstacles through

838
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: research and through education, and we're poised to do that.

839
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: We We've got a tremendous UH force of biologists on hand,

840
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:54,439
Speaker 1: not a large number, but educationally we're about as deep

841
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 1: as anybody can be around here. And Mark as you

842
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:01,879
Speaker 1: will know, if these dear Steward courses that we have,

843
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:06,760
Speaker 1: we're educating hundreds of people every year and that's what's

844
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: gonna take to to UH to be able to keep

845
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: your ear to the ground and know what's going on

846
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: with the local deer herds and and to report problems

847
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 1: back to the proper officials. We need to know about

848
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 1: these problems so we can identify them and then come

849
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 1: up with ways to ameliorate some of those problems. So

850
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: every you know, the future changes for everybody, But I

851
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: think we're we're capable of meeting those challenges. Agree with you,

852
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 1: and as you mentioned, you know through this UH these

853
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 1: different challenges challenges you mentioned, I think that they impact

854
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 1: a wide array of deer hunters, not just you know,

855
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,720
Speaker 1: private landowners who have a ton of ground that manage

856
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 1: dear but these things impact all of us. And based

857
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: on that, based on the fact that you're saying that

858
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 1: the Quality Deer and Management Association is gonna be focusing

859
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 1: on these types of challenges, and given some of the

860
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,359
Speaker 1: other things I've heard about the goals and how things

861
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 1: might be shifting a little bit in the future with

862
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: the q DUM, is it fair to say that that

863
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: your your organization is wanting to to make a very

864
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:26,360
Speaker 1: clear statement that the q d m A is for

865
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: all deer hunters and not just maybe the stereotypical or

866
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 1: the stereotype which was I think there's this miss um,

867
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 1: this misunderstanding with a lot of people that they thought

868
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: q d M was just for rich guys with a

869
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 1: bunch of property who wanted to grow really big angler deer.

870
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 1: That was kind of the negative stereotype of what quality

871
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:51,240
Speaker 1: Deer management meant to some people. Um, I think anyone

872
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 1: who really understands the organization and the tenets of it

873
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:55,879
Speaker 1: understands that's not the case. But it seems like now

874
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 1: from the things I'm hearing the organization itself is trying

875
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 1: to make it very clear that that's not the case

876
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 1: and that you are focused on things that impact all

877
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,439
Speaker 1: deer hunters, and especially with your new goals I saw

878
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 1: come out this year that really seems to be UM.

879
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 1: It's strongly assertain, very clear, and I am I right

880
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 1: in in seeing that in that interpretation, Yeah, you are.

881
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:22,439
Speaker 1: And I can understand how we got stereotyped in those

882
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 1: early years because the people that came to us were

883
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 1: those that controlled a large enough at tract of land

884
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:36,800
Speaker 1: to manage effectively as a an individual unit without regard

885
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: to what their neighbors were doing. These were not just landowners,

886
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 1: but these were organized hunting clubs at least in many

887
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 1: cases thousands of acres. And we have since day one

888
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 1: been an organization for all deer hunters, and we've we've

889
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 1: begged their involvement from an educational point of view, everybody

890
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 1: needs to know what's going on with with deer and

891
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 1: and those people that have relatively small areas to hunt

892
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:17,799
Speaker 1: on have been brought together with a fairly recent approach

893
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: for q d M cooperatives. UM Michigan, for example, has

894
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:29,280
Speaker 1: several hundred q d M co ops going. We've also

895
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: hired two people in Missouri UH that work with co

896
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:38,799
Speaker 1: ops on a full time basis. That has been the approach.

897
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,440
Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to pull out, though, was

898
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 1: that what many hunters are not aware of is that

899
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 1: the q d m A is very active with advocacy issues. UH.

900
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 1: These are issues at the local, state, and federal level.

901
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 1: We average being involved in about a hundred issues a year.

902
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:09,800
Speaker 1: In these range anywhere from access to hunting, to Sunday hunting,

903
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:16,400
Speaker 1: to changing the minimum age for for young hunters to

904
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: it uh a younger age to get them into the

905
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: fold of hunting sooner. UM. Now, I think there are

906
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,800
Speaker 1: some states where you've got to be twelve years old

907
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 1: or older before you can actually carry a gun hunting. UM.

908
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 1: That's certainly not the case here in South Carolina. We

909
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:39,800
Speaker 1: have no minimum age, and and there are some very

910
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 1: uh precocial youngsters that that are killing their first deer

911
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:48,799
Speaker 1: at age five or six. Might be too young uh

912
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 1: in the opinion of some people, but these kids grew

913
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 1: up with hunting and by the time they're six, they're

914
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 1: ready to get involved with it. UM. But I think

915
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 1: that the general uh, the population of deer hunters need

916
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:08,280
Speaker 1: to know that we go to bat for them almost

917
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 1: on a daily basis with regard to rules and regulations

918
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:22,319
Speaker 1: concerning deer management, season links, bag limits, uh, poaching finds.

919
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:25,359
Speaker 1: We've been involved in all of that, and if we

920
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:30,799
Speaker 1: hadn't been, they would have lost access to properties, they

921
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 1: would have uh lost in a number of ways, maybe

922
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 1: even in the eyes of the non hunting public. I

923
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:45,800
Speaker 1: think what we've done through our organization, we've we've brought

924
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 1: the hunter to the forefront and people's opinions to see

925
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 1: that we are good stewards of the land and the

926
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 1: resource and we police our own ranks and we couldn't

927
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 1: afford not to do that. But our organization, I think

928
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: has has gone to great links to protect the rights

929
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:13,399
Speaker 1: and the access of hunters across the board. So yeah,

930
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: it is for everybody, um, even somebody hunting on a

931
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 1: relatively small piece of property that that they just have

932
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 1: permission to hunt on, they need to know that we're

933
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 1: standing behind them, uh legislatively, especially make sure they can

934
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 1: still have access to those properties. Yeah. Well, I certainly

935
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: fall into that camp, um, not having not owning any

936
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 1: land myself and just hunting small parcels and I certainly

937
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: know that there benefits to being involved with the Quality

938
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 1: or Management Association, and I certainly appreciate the work you

939
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 1: guys are doing. But real quick now, before we move

940
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 1: on to anything new, I want to take a quick

941
00:57:56,600 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 1: second to thank our partners at White Tailed Properties. This week,

942
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 1: with White Tail Properties, we are joined by Tony Hansen,

943
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: aid Land Specialists out of Michigan, and Tony is gonna

944
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 1: be telling us about what factors matter most on a

945
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 1: property in high pressure areas well. To me, it's it's

946
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 1: a variety. So even though I mean I own and

947
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 1: kind of hunt a lot of small properties, you got

948
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 1: to look forward a mix of things you need. You

949
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:28,919
Speaker 1: need food for sure, but you need cover probably even

950
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 1: more so. You know, I need to have all of

951
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: the pieces that the deer needs because I don't want

952
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 1: them traveling very far, and I don't want them to

953
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 1: feel like they have to travel very far because you know,

954
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 1: especially during our gun season, when there's you know, nearly

955
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 1: a million guys out there, if a deer moves, it's

956
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 1: it's got a real pigance of getting shot. So I

957
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 1: try to find properties that have everything you need right there.

958
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 1: And yes, neighborhood matters, but it doesn't matter quite as

959
00:58:57,880 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 1: much as what you can, you know, do right there

960
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 1: on your own property. So you want to make sure

961
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 1: that you have food and cover and um, you know,

962
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: betting areas, security places and actuaries. They are a big

963
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 1: thing with me too. So I looked for a lot

964
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 1: of variety and that's in the property. If you'd like

965
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 1: to learn more and to see the properties that Tony

966
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:21,479
Speaker 1: currently has listed for sale, visit white tail properties dot

967
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 1: com backslash Hanson. That's h A N S E N UM.

968
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 1: I want to kind of shift gears a little bit here,

969
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 1: um because obviously, base what we've just heard, you've had

970
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: a long and kind of storied history when it comes

971
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 1: to your involvement with deer hunting and deer management and conservation,

972
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 1: all these different types of things, and you recently have

973
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 1: kind of compiled um oh, I guess a collection of

974
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 1: some of those thoughts and stories and experiences of that history,

975
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 1: UM in a book, that book being Fire Pot Stories,

976
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 1: which which came out earlier this year, And I want

977
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 1: to hear a little bit about that book, UM. But

978
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 1: something I want to ask you first, because I think

979
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 1: within the pages of this book, I haven't read the

980
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 1: entire book yet, I've read portions of it um but

981
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 1: from what I've seen so far, I think you answer

982
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 1: the question I'm about to ask. I think you answer

983
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 1: within the pages of this book, spread out over the

984
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 1: entire book. But I'm curious if you can synthesize this

985
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 1: in one answer, which is this, Joe, why do you hunt?

986
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 1: That's my question. I was introduced to hunting at a

987
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 1: very early age. My dad was a hunter. His dad

988
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 1: was a hunter, so it just seemed to be the

989
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 1: thing to do. And then once I got became involved

990
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 1: in it, I fell in love with just being out

991
01:00:55,560 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 1: of doors and the challenges of learning all the critters

992
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 1: that I was sharing the out of doors with, not

993
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 1: just by sight but by sound. And I very quickly

994
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 1: learned that the more that I knew about these critters,

995
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 1: the more at home that I felt when I was

996
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 1: out of doors. Uh, those of us that that started

997
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 1: going into the woods before daylight as youngsters were afraid

998
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 1: of everything, and education taught me that I just am

999
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 1: now a part of all these different goings on in

1000
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 1: the out of doors. The other thing that comes out

1001
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 1: of that is what you learned more about all these

1002
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 1: critters that you're spending time with UH, and you're in

1003
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 1: their habitat, you become more of a steward of them

1004
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 1: and their habitat. And that's what got me involved, that's

1005
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 1: what keeps me involved. And I'm still I'm seventy years

1006
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 1: old now, I'm a very active hunter. In fact, I

1007
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 1: spent the whole morning at our skin and shed processing

1008
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 1: a deer that's been hanging for about two weeks. And

1009
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 1: UH we eat venison several times a week year round,

1010
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 1: and I process all of my own meat. So I'm

1011
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 1: still very much involved in hunting. I've got two grandsons now,

1012
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 1: and the oldest is six. He I think it's a

1013
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 1: little bit too young to have a gun, but he

1014
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:37,479
Speaker 1: has been with us a number of times this year.

1015
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 1: UM went out rattling one morning about just a few

1016
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 1: weeks ago, and and rattled in about it was the

1017
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 1: first deer you've ever seen in the woods. So what

1018
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 1: story does he have to tell the rest of his

1019
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:55,920
Speaker 1: life that the first deer he saw his grandfather rattled

1020
01:02:55,960 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 1: in Um? And then a deal was shot in the

1021
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 1: neighborhood recently and the hunter couldn't find it, and I

1022
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 1: took my tracking dog out that night with not just

1023
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:15,920
Speaker 1: my two grandsons but two of their cousins, and everybody

1024
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:18,360
Speaker 1: had a flashlight. We had the dog on the lead,

1025
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:21,960
Speaker 1: and we we trailed on and on and on and

1026
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 1: found the deer and everybody was asked to bow their

1027
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 1: head and have a moment of silence to pay tribute

1028
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: to the animal. And and then we dragged it out

1029
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 1: and took it to the skin and shed and feel

1030
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 1: dressed it, hung it in the cooper to age for

1031
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:42,680
Speaker 1: a few weeks. So they were getting them involved in

1032
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 1: hunting activities without even guns being involved on their part.

1033
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 1: So that's how I came on board, and I think

1034
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: that's the way to get these youngsters involved. They need

1035
01:03:54,600 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 1: to understand the entire process uh of hunting and processing

1036
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 1: the meat and sharing it with family and friends and

1037
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So that's a long way to

1038
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 1: answer your question. Why did I hunt? I think genetically

1039
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 1: it was instilled within me that I had to and

1040
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 1: once I got a taste of it, h yeah, I

1041
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 1: just stayed with it. Yeah. So so then so that's

1042
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:27,920
Speaker 1: why you hunt? Why did you write this book? Why

1043
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 1: put this book together? And what what is it? Kind

1044
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 1: of comprised of what's found in those pages. Uh, I've

1045
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 1: been a great disciple of Alder Leopold, who was the

1046
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 1: father of my profession. H He passed away when I

1047
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 1: was only a year old, but he was the first

1048
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 1: professor of wildlife biology and ever at the University of Wisconsin,

1049
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 1: and he wrote a book entitled a Sand County Almanac,

1050
01:04:55,560 --> 01:05:00,160
Speaker 1: and his teachings were that those of us that were

1051
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 1: in the profession, and this was pre television, needed to

1052
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 1: meet with our constituents on a regular basis, and those

1053
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:12,760
Speaker 1: were the hunters we worked with and for and educate

1054
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:20,919
Speaker 1: them anyway possible, either through public speaking or writing articles

1055
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 1: for local newspapers or even doing radio shows. And then

1056
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:29,840
Speaker 1: when I got to the University of Georgia, the professors

1057
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:35,120
Speaker 1: that I had there were uh, certainly disciples of Leopold

1058
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:39,120
Speaker 1: as well, and and they all talked about the importance

1059
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:44,160
Speaker 1: of writing. So my writing days go back to my

1060
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:48,640
Speaker 1: days at the University of Georgia. And the earliest entry

1061
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 1: in my book it was a newspaper article I wrote

1062
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 1: in seventy two, So only a few years ago that

1063
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:03,720
Speaker 1: I realized that I been amassing a pretty good variety

1064
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 1: of stories about hunting and fishing, and some very biologically

1065
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 1: oriented stories or articles. And I thought, well, if I

1066
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 1: corral these things together, I might have enough to make

1067
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 1: a book. So I put my outline together and started

1068
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:24,920
Speaker 1: filling in the gaps, and and I wrote some stories

1069
01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 1: in the last few years to fill in those gaps.

1070
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 1: But I now have a book comprised of ten chapters

1071
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 1: with seventies six stories, and as you know already Mark

1072
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:42,120
Speaker 1: and having read a sampling of though some of are

1073
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:48,840
Speaker 1: very uh scientifically oriented, management oriented, others are just funny

1074
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:53,440
Speaker 1: stories that have occurred over the years of hunting and fishing.

1075
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:59,520
Speaker 1: And when I was talking with Jeff Foxworthy about a

1076
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:01,760
Speaker 1: request asked for him to put a quote on the

1077
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 1: back cover of my book, I told him that for

1078
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:08,040
Speaker 1: a person that I know has walked into a covey

1079
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 1: of wild quail and flushed them and watched them fly,

1080
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:15,360
Speaker 1: that many directions on And now can you appreciate many

1081
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:21,600
Speaker 1: directions my stories have flown. So that's that's just the

1082
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:24,640
Speaker 1: way to sum it up. I mean, it's a very

1083
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:30,400
Speaker 1: unique book in that, Uh. First of all, I wrote

1084
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:34,960
Speaker 1: some of the stories long enough ago, and I learned

1085
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 1: that I was not altogether right on some topics. I

1086
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 1: was a little too light with my approach to the

1087
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:45,680
Speaker 1: importance of coyotes, for example, And I went back to

1088
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:50,960
Speaker 1: at least six stories and and did sort of a

1089
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:54,920
Speaker 1: Paul Harvey approach, which he had a radio program, and

1090
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:58,920
Speaker 1: he called his the rest of the story. I called

1091
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:02,480
Speaker 1: mine the follow up. And in some cases my follow

1092
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:05,400
Speaker 1: up was longer than my original story. But I was

1093
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 1: able to revisit those original stories written twenty or twenty

1094
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:14,560
Speaker 1: five years ago and bring them up to date and

1095
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:18,080
Speaker 1: and correct the things that I was wrong about, and

1096
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:21,840
Speaker 1: even boast a little bit about the predictions I made

1097
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:25,800
Speaker 1: that came true that. Uh. So, I've got about six

1098
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:29,720
Speaker 1: stories that that have a follow up to them. I

1099
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 1: think the most unique part of the book is that

1100
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 1: it has chapter one at both ends. And how did

1101
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 1: that happen? Well? Uh, When I got to the end

1102
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 1: of my journey and I realized I had my book,

1103
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:50,160
Speaker 1: I needed a way to close it. I didn't want

1104
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:53,559
Speaker 1: to say goodbye, this is the end. And I spent

1105
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:57,000
Speaker 1: a long while on some property that I grew up

1106
01:08:57,080 --> 01:09:01,960
Speaker 1: hunting on in North Carolina, and I realized that that

1107
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:05,720
Speaker 1: was chapter one in my life. And I've been fortunate

1108
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:10,160
Speaker 1: now having lived long enough that I've hunted with and

1109
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:15,040
Speaker 1: I have friends in four different generations that have hunted

1110
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:18,799
Speaker 1: on that very property, and so that property was chapter

1111
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:24,000
Speaker 1: one in their lives as well. So that's how that

1112
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 1: last chapter got its name, and the way that I

1113
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:31,960
Speaker 1: closed it. I was on a youth turkey hunt that

1114
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:34,880
Speaker 1: particular morning, and after the hunt was over, I sat

1115
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 1: on the porch of the cabin all the rest of

1116
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:42,920
Speaker 1: the day trying to decide how to end this book.

1117
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:47,080
Speaker 1: And it only happened after I've got in my truck

1118
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:50,679
Speaker 1: very late in the afternoon and made the four mile

1119
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:54,920
Speaker 1: drive out to the highway at a very slow pace

1120
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 1: with my windows down so I could listen to nature,

1121
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:02,479
Speaker 1: and I was was hearing a variety of birds. I

1122
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:08,320
Speaker 1: was hearing a variety of uh frogs like spring peepers

1123
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:13,080
Speaker 1: and and narrow mouth toads, and on and on, and

1124
01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 1: realizing that all these little tiny critters that were about

1125
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:21,400
Speaker 1: an inch along, these little frogs were very site specific

1126
01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:26,000
Speaker 1: and where they lived, and I knew that, and and

1127
01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:29,479
Speaker 1: I was able to ride along, could have even ridden

1128
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:34,120
Speaker 1: with my eyes closed with a mental map of where

1129
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:38,599
Speaker 1: I was riding along, because this particular frog stays in

1130
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:42,400
Speaker 1: the stream. This particular frog stays in a little pool

1131
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 1: that might drop, and then they move on and on.

1132
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:52,280
Speaker 1: But I got to the highway and I thought, this

1133
01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:56,760
Speaker 1: is this is an exercise in education, and there will

1134
01:10:56,840 --> 01:11:02,080
Speaker 1: never ever be a final exam. So there's the challenge.

1135
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:07,320
Speaker 1: Keep learning and keep appreciating nature. The more you know,

1136
01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:11,160
Speaker 1: the more you'll appreciate it. The more you know, the

1137
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 1: stronger you'll work as a steward to protect it. And

1138
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 1: that's how I ended the book, was with a challenge,

1139
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 1: rather than saying goodbye, this is the end. This is

1140
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:27,080
Speaker 1: actually the beginning. UM. So there's everything in between. There

1141
01:11:27,080 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 1: are some stories that will make you laugh, there are

1142
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:32,519
Speaker 1: some that will make you cry. There will be some

1143
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:35,679
Speaker 1: that will teach you some things you didn't know before,

1144
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:39,920
Speaker 1: and that's always a good thing. So there's something in

1145
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:46,120
Speaker 1: that book for everybody, but there's not everything for everybody,

1146
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:51,560
Speaker 1: as it should be. Yeah. Yeah, there's a there's a

1147
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:54,760
Speaker 1: chapter within the book UM that I read, and it

1148
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 1: spoke about the path of a hunter and kind of

1149
01:11:57,320 --> 01:12:02,439
Speaker 1: this UM, this evolution towards you developing the hunter's spirit. UM.

1150
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:04,280
Speaker 1: Could you talk a little bit about that, what that

1151
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:07,879
Speaker 1: means about that path of the hunter, the hunter's spirit,

1152
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:10,599
Speaker 1: and kind of your thoughts on that and this journey

1153
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:14,879
Speaker 1: that many of us hunters go through. Why that's so important. Well,

1154
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:19,519
Speaker 1: they're about five major stages that you go through, and

1155
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:21,800
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna list off five of those, but I'll

1156
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:25,280
Speaker 1: start with the first one, and it's one that out

1157
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:29,559
Speaker 1: of Leopold referred to as the trigger itch stage, where

1158
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:32,040
Speaker 1: people want to go out and get their limits. They

1159
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:37,280
Speaker 1: want to kill as many as they can legally, and

1160
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:43,880
Speaker 1: and numbers are important. Shooting is important. You learn through

1161
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:48,600
Speaker 1: time and hopefully through the experiences and with the influence

1162
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:52,759
Speaker 1: from our elders, that that's maybe not necessarily the approach

1163
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:57,040
Speaker 1: to take. You become more custodial or you become a

1164
01:12:57,040 --> 01:13:01,000
Speaker 1: better steward as you're going through these different stages, and

1165
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:04,240
Speaker 1: in the final stage you get to is is one

1166
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:10,840
Speaker 1: of of ultimate stewardship, where you start looking more toward

1167
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:17,439
Speaker 1: photography or artwork to to stay in touch with with hunting.

1168
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:21,960
Speaker 1: You take on more responsibility to act as a mentor

1169
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:26,479
Speaker 1: to bring youngsters on board. And and that's where I

1170
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:30,960
Speaker 1: am now. I'm much more excited about taking youngsters and

1171
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:34,960
Speaker 1: introducing them to hunting and just being out of doors

1172
01:13:35,080 --> 01:13:37,639
Speaker 1: than than ever before. And then there are all those

1173
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:42,839
Speaker 1: different steps in between. There is not a a recipe

1174
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:47,680
Speaker 1: on how long you would stay on each plateau. It

1175
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:51,839
Speaker 1: might take you several years to progress from that first

1176
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:56,840
Speaker 1: uh the shooters stage, or that one with trigger itch,

1177
01:13:57,600 --> 01:14:00,240
Speaker 1: to the next one and then to level for in

1178
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:02,599
Speaker 1: the level four and then finally at the level five.

1179
01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:06,320
Speaker 1: The speed at which you go through that is not

1180
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:10,680
Speaker 1: as important as the the path and the direction if

1181
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:14,200
Speaker 1: you if you have an unwavering path going through those

1182
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 1: different plateaus, you're becoming a better steward along the way

1183
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:25,439
Speaker 1: and a better representative of the hunting fraternity. So I

1184
01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:28,800
Speaker 1: mentioned that in a couple of different stories in the book.

1185
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:32,880
Speaker 1: But that is the hunter's path. It's just sort of

1186
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:36,760
Speaker 1: a natural progression to just get better and better and

1187
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:41,120
Speaker 1: better at what you do. But there's an old saying,

1188
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:46,240
Speaker 1: you live and learn. Some people only live and don't learn,

1189
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:52,280
Speaker 1: And some hunters get involved in hunting and never change.

1190
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:56,599
Speaker 1: They stay in that trigger it stage right on through

1191
01:14:56,640 --> 01:15:00,439
Speaker 1: the whole process, and that's that's unfortunate for them. It's

1192
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:04,080
Speaker 1: unfortunate for hunting that there are people like that. But

1193
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:09,960
Speaker 1: it's incumbent upon us that that recognized the educational process

1194
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:14,360
Speaker 1: to bring them into the fold and to help lead

1195
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:18,800
Speaker 1: the way by example and by through education to get

1196
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:23,000
Speaker 1: them to appreciate what they have access to. So that's

1197
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:25,840
Speaker 1: that's the hunter's path, and it's it's mentioned twice in

1198
01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:29,160
Speaker 1: different stories in the book. Yeah, and I think you do.

1199
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:32,040
Speaker 1: I think you do a nice job of illustrating that

1200
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:35,080
Speaker 1: journey throughout as you said, throughout the book. It's it's

1201
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:39,599
Speaker 1: kind of woven through many of your stories in different ways. UM.

1202
01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:42,519
Speaker 1: And then I think another example of of a way

1203
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:45,439
Speaker 1: to educate ourselves about some of those elements of the

1204
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:48,320
Speaker 1: hunter's path and that stewardship is another book that you

1205
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:51,760
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, that being a Sand County Almanac by all

1206
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:56,479
Speaker 1: the Leopold. I think many of those um core tenants

1207
01:15:56,520 --> 01:15:58,760
Speaker 1: of becoming a steward and of taking those steps as

1208
01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:01,519
Speaker 1: the hunter, I think those are discussed and shown throughout

1209
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:03,639
Speaker 1: all those stories as well. I think a perfect example

1210
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:09,080
Speaker 1: that being UM one of Leopold's lessons learned, you know,

1211
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:12,360
Speaker 1: in in his essay Thinking Like a Mountain, where he

1212
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:15,639
Speaker 1: spoke about UM, a topic you mentioned earlier, that being

1213
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:18,599
Speaker 1: predators and how he had you know, as a young kid,

1214
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:21,280
Speaker 1: had always thought I'll just shoot every wolf for coyote

1215
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:22,800
Speaker 1: would be a good thing. You know, he thought it

1216
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 1: was fun to kill him. And you know, every fewer

1217
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:28,639
Speaker 1: wolves there be more, dear. Um. And then he kind

1218
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:30,760
Speaker 1: of had this ah ha moment as he started to

1219
01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:33,960
Speaker 1: understand how all of these things are are more interconnected

1220
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:36,680
Speaker 1: than that and that, um, you know, there was a

1221
01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:39,160
Speaker 1: place for all of these different pieces and parts of

1222
01:16:39,200 --> 01:16:42,439
Speaker 1: the ecosystem, wolves and deer and humans and all of

1223
01:16:42,439 --> 01:16:46,160
Speaker 1: those things, um as as one part of a whole. Um.

1224
01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:50,320
Speaker 1: Why does the Sand County Almanac resonate with you so much?

1225
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:52,599
Speaker 1: Because I know you've mentioned it quite a few times,

1226
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:55,160
Speaker 1: both in this book and um in past times i've

1227
01:16:55,160 --> 01:16:57,280
Speaker 1: heard you speak, why is that something that you think

1228
01:16:57,760 --> 01:17:01,960
Speaker 1: hunters should should look to? Is another source of of

1229
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:06,880
Speaker 1: knowledge and direction? Well, I mentioned the importance a minute

1230
01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:11,840
Speaker 1: ago of mentoring, and if you had to read any

1231
01:17:11,880 --> 01:17:16,559
Speaker 1: one book that was available, uh as a book that

1232
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 1: would mentor you through the different steps of hunting, it

1233
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:24,759
Speaker 1: would be a San County Almanac because it it talks

1234
01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:29,920
Speaker 1: about your role as as a hunter and a manager,

1235
01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:37,480
Speaker 1: uh and not a despoiler. Of wildlife, and and it

1236
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:41,600
Speaker 1: it reinforces that necessity to be a good steward of

1237
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:48,479
Speaker 1: our natural resources. Um. And just one example after another

1238
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:51,160
Speaker 1: in that in that book, and it just teaches you

1239
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:58,440
Speaker 1: how to be aware of your surroundings. My book, by comparison,

1240
01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:07,040
Speaker 1: has all these stand alone stories. Leopold's book, like most

1241
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:10,160
Speaker 1: other books, is a progression of thought. You just you

1242
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:13,400
Speaker 1: flow from one to the next, to the next and next.

1243
01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 1: My book has stand alone stories with one exception. I

1244
01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 1: have one story that has a sequel to it, and

1245
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:25,519
Speaker 1: then I have one chapter that's a trilogy, and it's

1246
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:28,400
Speaker 1: all about one person that I grew up hunting with,

1247
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:34,080
Speaker 1: a fellow that was part Cherokee Indian from the Appalachian

1248
01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:39,200
Speaker 1: region of North Carolina, and he was the ultimate storyteller

1249
01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:43,240
Speaker 1: for one thing, and that I've probably got some of

1250
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:46,680
Speaker 1: my storytelling from being around him so much in my

1251
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:51,840
Speaker 1: early years. But aside from that trilogy and then that

1252
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:55,439
Speaker 1: one story that has a sequel to it, all the

1253
01:18:55,520 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 1: other stories or stand alone. So if the stories were published,

1254
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:06,240
Speaker 1: I put at the end of that story when and where,

1255
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:10,280
Speaker 1: whether it was a magazine or a newspaper article or whatever.

1256
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:13,559
Speaker 1: But there are a number of stories in there, and

1257
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:18,519
Speaker 1: some transcripts from talks that I had given h here

1258
01:19:19,360 --> 01:19:23,479
Speaker 1: in the States and in Australia, and I put that

1259
01:19:23,560 --> 01:19:29,960
Speaker 1: transcript in as a story. Uh So therein lies the

1260
01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:33,400
Speaker 1: variety of in this book. I mean, it goes in

1261
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:40,880
Speaker 1: every direction. But Leopold was was a person that I

1262
01:19:40,920 --> 01:19:43,800
Speaker 1: wish I had known. I got to know him through

1263
01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:48,599
Speaker 1: his writings, and I can only hope that I will

1264
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:52,400
Speaker 1: be remembered that same way many years from now, because

1265
01:19:52,439 --> 01:19:57,400
Speaker 1: I just felt it important to take all that I

1266
01:19:57,479 --> 01:20:01,519
Speaker 1: knew about hunting and put between two cu ORSA and

1267
01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:06,479
Speaker 1: I think I've done that for this book. And I

1268
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:12,320
Speaker 1: think it's important that you ah can enjoy any experience

1269
01:20:12,439 --> 01:20:18,519
Speaker 1: that's outdoors related, and even down to reading about hunting.

1270
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:23,160
Speaker 1: It can be funny, and it can and should be

1271
01:20:23,240 --> 01:20:29,519
Speaker 1: fun It should be enjoyable. The more you understand about it,

1272
01:20:29,560 --> 01:20:33,200
Speaker 1: the more you're gonna do it correctly and enjoy it

1273
01:20:33,479 --> 01:20:38,760
Speaker 1: more fully. So that that's leopolst influence on me, and

1274
01:20:38,800 --> 01:20:42,559
Speaker 1: I hope my influence that comes through to the readers

1275
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:46,680
Speaker 1: of my book as well. So so speaking of that

1276
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:52,000
Speaker 1: book then and of the power of story, because in

1277
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:54,440
Speaker 1: many cases the things you've talked about here there these

1278
01:20:55,000 --> 01:20:59,400
Speaker 1: you know, lessons learned, these important things to to think

1279
01:20:59,439 --> 01:21:01,960
Speaker 1: about as far as becoming stewards. All these things, many

1280
01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:05,479
Speaker 1: times are conveyed through a story. And uh man, I'm

1281
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:08,599
Speaker 1: a glutton for stories. I remember as a little kid

1282
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:11,880
Speaker 1: going up to our family deer camp. Um there was

1283
01:21:12,160 --> 01:21:13,840
Speaker 1: there was a guy who went up to our camp

1284
01:21:13,880 --> 01:21:16,240
Speaker 1: with us. His name was Terry, and he was probably

1285
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:19,479
Speaker 1: twenty five or thirty maybe, and I was like eight

1286
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 1: years old at the time, and I would just follow

1287
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:24,519
Speaker 1: him around all day at camp. I'd sit next to

1288
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:26,439
Speaker 1: him in the truck when we were driving up to camp,

1289
01:21:26,479 --> 01:21:28,599
Speaker 1: I would sit next to him in the cabin, and

1290
01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:31,920
Speaker 1: in every second there wasn't talking happening, I would just say, Hey,

1291
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:33,680
Speaker 1: can you tell me a deer hunting story? Can you

1292
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:35,120
Speaker 1: tell me your story? Can tell me the story of

1293
01:21:35,120 --> 01:21:36,720
Speaker 1: your first buck? Can you tell me a story of

1294
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:40,080
Speaker 1: how you killed your you know this buck? And maybe

1295
01:21:40,120 --> 01:21:42,559
Speaker 1: that's why I'm doing what I'm doing today. I'm asking

1296
01:21:42,600 --> 01:21:45,360
Speaker 1: people to u to tell their own stories still now,

1297
01:21:46,160 --> 01:21:48,280
Speaker 1: many many years later. But I guess the point of

1298
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:51,280
Speaker 1: me saying all that, Joe is out of your book,

1299
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 1: and these many different experiences and stories you shared. Um,

1300
01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:58,040
Speaker 1: is there a favorite story or or a hunting story

1301
01:21:58,080 --> 01:22:01,680
Speaker 1: in your life that stands out the most, Um, that

1302
01:22:01,800 --> 01:22:03,880
Speaker 1: you could share with us. Any story that stands out

1303
01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:05,559
Speaker 1: to you would be would be pretty interesting to me.

1304
01:22:08,280 --> 01:22:14,479
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. There they're all favorites for that matter. UM.

1305
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:19,719
Speaker 1: One one was very humorous and it's entitled The Upside

1306
01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:26,479
Speaker 1: Down Goat. I was probably fourteen years older so at

1307
01:22:26,479 --> 01:22:31,080
Speaker 1: the time, fifteen maybe, and we had killed it deer

1308
01:22:31,200 --> 01:22:35,200
Speaker 1: on this property near my hometown in southeastern North Carolina.

1309
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:39,639
Speaker 1: And I didn't know anything about skinning or gutting or anything.

1310
01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:44,559
Speaker 1: And in those days, when the club killed a deer,

1311
01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:50,360
Speaker 1: they processed it that day, immediately after the hunt. So

1312
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:54,960
Speaker 1: I was standing around in this little shelter on a

1313
01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:59,640
Speaker 1: on an old abandoned farm and and watching the process.

1314
01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:02,200
Speaker 1: The first of all skinned the deer and they gutted it,

1315
01:23:02,439 --> 01:23:04,519
Speaker 1: and I was standing there with my hands in my pockets,

1316
01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:07,719
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, something hit me from behind,

1317
01:23:07,960 --> 01:23:11,680
Speaker 1: and I landed on my back and looked up and

1318
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:15,080
Speaker 1: I was staring at the chin of a big, wild

1319
01:23:15,200 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 1: horned billy goat, and everybody around laughed at what had happened.

1320
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:23,759
Speaker 1: I was, while I was just embarrassed to the degree.

1321
01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:29,799
Speaker 1: And I hunted on that property for a number of years,

1322
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:32,599
Speaker 1: and that goat was always there, and he was always

1323
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:35,759
Speaker 1: hiding behind something and waiting until you got out into

1324
01:23:35,800 --> 01:23:41,240
Speaker 1: the open before he attacked you. So I had invited

1325
01:23:41,240 --> 01:23:45,599
Speaker 1: a cousin of mine down from Fatteville, which is near

1326
01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:48,760
Speaker 1: Fort Bragg. Uh he wasn't a hunter at all, but

1327
01:23:48,800 --> 01:23:50,960
Speaker 1: I said, come on down and spend the weekend with me,

1328
01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:53,479
Speaker 1: and I'll take your deer hunting. And back in those

1329
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:57,760
Speaker 1: days it was dog hunting only in eastern North Carolina.

1330
01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:02,280
Speaker 1: Nobody still hunted, uh um. And so I said, you'd

1331
01:24:02,400 --> 01:24:04,200
Speaker 1: come with me, and I'll put you on the stand

1332
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:06,400
Speaker 1: and we'll stay there until lunchtime, and then we'll come

1333
01:24:06,439 --> 01:24:10,559
Speaker 1: out and have sardines and crackers and cheese for lunch,

1334
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:14,559
Speaker 1: and then we'll hut that wag in the afternoon. Well,

1335
01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:18,519
Speaker 1: we went through the old barnyard where there were a

1336
01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:21,479
Speaker 1: few hogs running around, and didn't see the billy goat

1337
01:24:22,520 --> 01:24:26,040
Speaker 1: I had mentioned him. And we hunted for a few

1338
01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:29,759
Speaker 1: hours and came back through the barnyard and had gotten

1339
01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:34,519
Speaker 1: to the very little of the opening, and my cousin said,

1340
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:38,840
Speaker 1: there he is. Here he comes. And there was an

1341
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:44,879
Speaker 1: old abandoned car there in the in the farmyard. We

1342
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:46,840
Speaker 1: got up on top of that, and this goat was

1343
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:50,920
Speaker 1: going around and around and around. We thought that was

1344
01:24:50,960 --> 01:24:55,400
Speaker 1: pretty funny, but we were held captive by this marauding goat.

1345
01:24:56,439 --> 01:25:00,240
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, the goat jump to

1346
01:25:00,360 --> 01:25:02,759
Speaker 1: the hood of the car and then to the top

1347
01:25:02,800 --> 01:25:07,080
Speaker 1: and was standing between us. Uh. Not enough room for

1348
01:25:07,160 --> 01:25:11,120
Speaker 1: a big, wide, horned billy goat and two youngsters. We

1349
01:25:11,320 --> 01:25:14,880
Speaker 1: peeled off the car and made a mad dash for

1350
01:25:14,960 --> 01:25:18,559
Speaker 1: the gate, which was a fight a hundred yards away.

1351
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:24,559
Speaker 1: And Uh. It got almost to the gate, the goat

1352
01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:28,679
Speaker 1: was closing the distance, and I grabbed the low hanging

1353
01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:32,000
Speaker 1: limb and swung up into the tree. My cousin missed

1354
01:25:32,040 --> 01:25:34,840
Speaker 1: the limb, so he and the goat were going around

1355
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:38,440
Speaker 1: and around this tree. All the while. He kept extending

1356
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:41,439
Speaker 1: his hand said, pull me up, pull me up. Well,

1357
01:25:42,280 --> 01:25:45,599
Speaker 1: I'm not a fool. It's gonna be much easier for

1358
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:48,080
Speaker 1: him to pull me down than for me to pull

1359
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:50,720
Speaker 1: him up. And I said, you just got to do

1360
01:25:50,800 --> 01:25:54,080
Speaker 1: it yourself. Do it like I did. Just climbed the tree.

1361
01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:58,240
Speaker 1: So we finally got together up in the tree, and

1362
01:25:58,280 --> 01:26:01,800
Speaker 1: then the other hunters started gathering the gate, only to

1363
01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:04,000
Speaker 1: see the two of us in this tree with the

1364
01:26:04,080 --> 01:26:12,280
Speaker 1: goat going around and around us. Very humiliating. But I

1365
01:26:12,360 --> 01:26:15,280
Speaker 1: put a picture in that article of a goat and

1366
01:26:15,320 --> 01:26:18,799
Speaker 1: I turned him upside down to go along with the title.

1367
01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:24,000
Speaker 1: So there's some stories like that that, and I will

1368
01:26:24,080 --> 01:26:27,800
Speaker 1: say all of these stories are true. They all happened

1369
01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:31,600
Speaker 1: the way I portrayed them. Some of the stories I

1370
01:26:31,680 --> 01:26:35,760
Speaker 1: put in there were told to me, and there may

1371
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:39,720
Speaker 1: be some element of doubt as to how truthful they

1372
01:26:39,760 --> 01:26:43,960
Speaker 1: were from start to finish. But like an old timer

1373
01:26:44,040 --> 01:26:47,559
Speaker 1: told me one time, well I just had to tell

1374
01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:50,920
Speaker 1: it like I heard it, and I wrote it like

1375
01:26:51,040 --> 01:26:54,719
Speaker 1: I heard it in some cases. But yeah, there are

1376
01:26:54,720 --> 01:26:57,280
Speaker 1: there are a lot of stories like that. There's some

1377
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:00,840
Speaker 1: there's a turkey hunting story in there that uh, there's

1378
01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:06,840
Speaker 1: rather comical towards the end, and there's some good fishing stories. So,

1379
01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:10,240
Speaker 1: as I said a while ago, there's there's a little

1380
01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:14,000
Speaker 1: bit of something in there for everybody, and I just

1381
01:27:14,160 --> 01:27:17,320
Speaker 1: I just hope the readers enjoyed the twisted journey through

1382
01:27:17,360 --> 01:27:22,439
Speaker 1: all my personal stories. All right, before we move on,

1383
01:27:22,479 --> 01:27:24,680
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break to thank our partners at

1384
01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:27,880
Speaker 1: Matthews Archery for their support of this podcast, and as

1385
01:27:27,880 --> 01:27:29,759
Speaker 1: you might have seen on social media over the past

1386
01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:33,280
Speaker 1: few weeks, Matthews has just launched their new flagship bow

1387
01:27:33,320 --> 01:27:36,400
Speaker 1: for two thousand eighteen, the Matthews try Acts, and here

1388
01:27:36,439 --> 01:27:38,519
Speaker 1: with us to talk a little bit more about what

1389
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:42,519
Speaker 1: the tracks has to offer is Matthews design engineer Mark Hayes.

1390
01:27:43,240 --> 01:27:46,120
Speaker 1: The try X is the result of an extremely focused

1391
01:27:46,160 --> 01:27:48,240
Speaker 1: goal that we had this year for two thousand and eighteen,

1392
01:27:48,280 --> 01:27:51,880
Speaker 1: and that was to make the stealthiest bow of all time.

1393
01:27:52,160 --> 01:27:56,360
Speaker 1: And UH, with that focus goal, there's two things that

1394
01:27:56,400 --> 01:27:59,360
Speaker 1: we're looking at. We're looking at the most efficient bow

1395
01:27:59,400 --> 01:28:02,160
Speaker 1: that we could past they make, and what that does

1396
01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:06,400
Speaker 1: is the lost energy in a bow is usually sounding vibration.

1397
01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:09,280
Speaker 1: So if you can make a bow as efficient as possible,

1398
01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:13,000
Speaker 1: you're gonna lower the amount of energy that you have

1399
01:28:13,080 --> 01:28:16,320
Speaker 1: to actually deal with. Once we lowered that with our

1400
01:28:16,400 --> 01:28:18,840
Speaker 1: e h s and the new position, which we're called

1401
01:28:18,880 --> 01:28:23,080
Speaker 1: three D dampening, that bow is the quietest and most

1402
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:26,679
Speaker 1: vibration free bow that we've ever made, and we're seeing

1403
01:28:26,680 --> 01:28:29,120
Speaker 1: it now once the bows are hitting the shops now

1404
01:28:29,160 --> 01:28:32,960
Speaker 1: and people are experiencing it that the Halon was a great,

1405
01:28:33,120 --> 01:28:36,200
Speaker 1: great platform. But and it's hard to believe that the

1406
01:28:36,720 --> 01:28:39,880
Speaker 1: vibration could get better, but it is noticeably better and

1407
01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:43,200
Speaker 1: it's fun to see people's reactions on that. It's it

1408
01:28:43,240 --> 01:28:47,000
Speaker 1: was built for close quarters. Um, you know, Eastern guys

1409
01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:50,400
Speaker 1: were in Midwest, We're used to blinds and tree stands,

1410
01:28:50,400 --> 01:28:54,400
Speaker 1: and you know, the geometry of the bow is uh

1411
01:28:54,479 --> 01:28:57,599
Speaker 1: good for that. Obviously, it is a short bow um

1412
01:28:58,000 --> 01:29:00,639
Speaker 1: axle to axle. Now a few was like a bigger

1413
01:29:00,680 --> 01:29:04,719
Speaker 1: bow with our our short lambs and our big cams

1414
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:07,720
Speaker 1: and everything. But it is amazing how easy that is

1415
01:29:07,760 --> 01:29:10,240
Speaker 1: to carry around and how maneuverable it is. And that

1416
01:29:10,320 --> 01:29:12,519
Speaker 1: was kind of a byproduct of our first goal was

1417
01:29:12,600 --> 01:29:16,439
Speaker 1: to just to make the stealthiest killing machine of all time. Really,

1418
01:29:16,520 --> 01:29:19,760
Speaker 1: so the newest thing what people will definitely see that

1419
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:22,559
Speaker 1: three D dampening. We move that damper out in front

1420
01:29:23,280 --> 01:29:26,680
Speaker 1: um of the bow and if you could imagine a

1421
01:29:26,760 --> 01:29:30,840
Speaker 1: twisting motion, our dampers were normally, you know, underneath the

1422
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:34,160
Speaker 1: hand and you don't get the full rotation and that

1423
01:29:34,200 --> 01:29:36,439
Speaker 1: twisting for that damper to work. So by moving it

1424
01:29:36,439 --> 01:29:39,240
Speaker 1: out we're using all three directions. That's where three D

1425
01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:43,479
Speaker 1: comes from to really dampen that energy, and that's why

1426
01:29:43,520 --> 01:29:46,519
Speaker 1: the user cannot feel it when they actually shoot. It's

1427
01:29:46,520 --> 01:29:49,040
Speaker 1: really incredible. If you'd like to learn more about the

1428
01:29:49,080 --> 01:29:55,840
Speaker 1: Matthews tracks, you can visit www. Dot Matthews Inc dot com.

1429
01:29:55,160 --> 01:29:59,600
Speaker 1: You mentioned how back in those days it was just

1430
01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:02,479
Speaker 1: hunting with dogs most of what you guys did, um,

1431
01:30:02,520 --> 01:30:07,000
Speaker 1: and that's something that that's very unique to the South. Um.

1432
01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:09,800
Speaker 1: Being a Michigander up here in the northern part of

1433
01:30:09,800 --> 01:30:12,400
Speaker 1: the country, I'm I'm far removed from the culture of

1434
01:30:12,439 --> 01:30:16,599
Speaker 1: hunting in the South. UM, and sometimes I I what's

1435
01:30:16,600 --> 01:30:19,920
Speaker 1: the word I'm looking for here? I don't give our

1436
01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:22,800
Speaker 1: southern members of our audience enough attention as far as

1437
01:30:22,840 --> 01:30:25,800
Speaker 1: things that are that are happening for them and the

1438
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:28,240
Speaker 1: the culture of hunting that they're a part of down there.

1439
01:30:28,280 --> 01:30:30,120
Speaker 1: Can you speak a little bit about that, what it's

1440
01:30:30,240 --> 01:30:32,599
Speaker 1: what it's been like as a hunter down south, how

1441
01:30:32,640 --> 01:30:34,760
Speaker 1: that might be different than some of the things we've

1442
01:30:34,800 --> 01:30:37,320
Speaker 1: experienced in my neck of the woods up here. UM,

1443
01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:39,960
Speaker 1: and maybe in particularly be curious to hear about um

1444
01:30:40,160 --> 01:30:42,320
Speaker 1: dog hunting and how that's a part of the culture

1445
01:30:42,360 --> 01:30:46,160
Speaker 1: down there, and and some different things on those lines. Well,

1446
01:30:46,200 --> 01:30:50,920
Speaker 1: I think we're probably uh inherited that style of hunting

1447
01:30:51,080 --> 01:30:57,040
Speaker 1: from our European ancestors, UM. But the dog hunting has

1448
01:30:57,160 --> 01:31:01,960
Speaker 1: has been a part of our tradition for as long

1449
01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:05,400
Speaker 1: as we've been settled in in this part of the world.

1450
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:08,600
Speaker 1: When I grew up, as I mentioned, it was, it

1451
01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:15,000
Speaker 1: was dog hunting only in eastern North Carolina. I've been

1452
01:31:15,040 --> 01:31:18,439
Speaker 1: around long enough to see that change to the point

1453
01:31:18,520 --> 01:31:23,160
Speaker 1: now that there are not many people still dog hunting

1454
01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:27,559
Speaker 1: for a long list of reasons. Number one, uh, they

1455
01:31:27,600 --> 01:31:31,479
Speaker 1: don't like to be able to keep a big pack

1456
01:31:31,560 --> 01:31:35,799
Speaker 1: of dogs, and and the other is their their hunting

1457
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:39,920
Speaker 1: properties have gotten smaller and smaller, and all the while

1458
01:31:40,479 --> 01:31:47,800
Speaker 1: the problems with neighbors having increased over time. By comparison,

1459
01:31:47,960 --> 01:31:51,280
Speaker 1: when when I hunted the loose knit club that I

1460
01:31:51,360 --> 01:31:57,120
Speaker 1: hunted with, UM hunted about a seven or eight hundred

1461
01:31:57,160 --> 01:32:04,320
Speaker 1: acre tract bordering the Cape Fair River, and nobody to

1462
01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:08,760
Speaker 1: our left or right or south of us hunted at all.

1463
01:32:09,080 --> 01:32:14,360
Speaker 1: So if our dogs left our property uh in pursuit

1464
01:32:14,400 --> 01:32:18,280
Speaker 1: of a deer, UH, they were usually back within a

1465
01:32:18,360 --> 01:32:20,680
Speaker 1: few hours. For one thing, the deal would make a

1466
01:32:20,720 --> 01:32:24,280
Speaker 1: big loop and come back, but it didn't bother anybody.

1467
01:32:24,960 --> 01:32:28,080
Speaker 1: If the dogs ran the deer to the river and

1468
01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:31,559
Speaker 1: crossed the river, then there was a club over there

1469
01:32:31,600 --> 01:32:35,960
Speaker 1: as well who did the same thing. We had their

1470
01:32:36,040 --> 01:32:39,000
Speaker 1: dogs running deer across the river to our side of

1471
01:32:39,040 --> 01:32:43,000
Speaker 1: the river, so that was not a problem. But that

1472
01:32:43,120 --> 01:32:46,479
Speaker 1: has changed over time to the point that every single

1473
01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:51,560
Speaker 1: property that's hunted has a neighboring hunter on it. And

1474
01:32:52,120 --> 01:32:55,479
Speaker 1: what's changed is that there are more and more people

1475
01:32:55,520 --> 01:32:59,280
Speaker 1: that still hunt who don't appreciate having dogs run through

1476
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:02,760
Speaker 1: their property. So that's it's been the biggest change that's

1477
01:33:02,800 --> 01:33:07,519
Speaker 1: happened with with dog hunting. UM I will pat the

1478
01:33:07,600 --> 01:33:11,080
Speaker 1: dog hunters on the on the back and congratulate them.

1479
01:33:11,120 --> 01:33:16,040
Speaker 1: In Georgia, a few years ago, they realized that they

1480
01:33:16,080 --> 01:33:22,160
Speaker 1: were on thin ice and a faction of their leadership

1481
01:33:22,560 --> 01:33:26,080
Speaker 1: met with legislators and that came up with a set

1482
01:33:26,120 --> 01:33:31,360
Speaker 1: of guidelines a I think a minimum acreage in different

1483
01:33:31,400 --> 01:33:37,000
Speaker 1: ways that they were to police themselves, and they essentially

1484
01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:40,559
Speaker 1: saved dog hunting in the eastern part of Georgia by

1485
01:33:40,640 --> 01:33:48,800
Speaker 1: having those guidelines. UM. Still hunting is very strong these

1486
01:33:48,880 --> 01:33:51,160
Speaker 1: days in that part of the world, but dog hunting

1487
01:33:51,400 --> 01:33:55,479
Speaker 1: is too. I see the dog hunting is changing in

1488
01:33:55,720 --> 01:34:00,960
Speaker 1: all these other states as well, um when it is

1489
01:34:01,080 --> 01:34:04,200
Speaker 1: probably going by the wayside quicker than those that are

1490
01:34:04,240 --> 01:34:07,439
Speaker 1: participating in it would like to see. But it's because

1491
01:34:07,560 --> 01:34:11,800
Speaker 1: they're not sticking to a set of guidelines like the

1492
01:34:11,880 --> 01:34:15,960
Speaker 1: Georgia deer hunters set up for themselves. Dog hunting is

1493
01:34:15,960 --> 01:34:24,000
Speaker 1: still popular in eastern Virginia, eastern North Carolina, eastern South Carolina, Florida,

1494
01:34:24,160 --> 01:34:27,800
Speaker 1: and then some of the Gulf Coast states all the

1495
01:34:27,840 --> 01:34:33,200
Speaker 1: way around through Louisiana. A number of years ago, they

1496
01:34:33,600 --> 01:34:40,880
Speaker 1: they stopped dog hunting in East Texas, um because of

1497
01:34:40,920 --> 01:34:46,200
Speaker 1: the conflicts with with other hunters and other landowners, neighboring landowners.

1498
01:34:46,200 --> 01:34:49,519
Speaker 1: So it's a it's sort of a dying art, a

1499
01:34:49,680 --> 01:34:58,160
Speaker 1: dying tradition, and it'll last in certain pockets because of

1500
01:34:58,360 --> 01:35:02,880
Speaker 1: large enough acreage to participate in that. But I see

1501
01:35:02,880 --> 01:35:06,439
Speaker 1: those acreages changing to the to the negative side. They're

1502
01:35:06,439 --> 01:35:11,640
Speaker 1: getting smaller and smaller over time. So it was the

1503
01:35:11,800 --> 01:35:14,439
Speaker 1: way to hunt at one time, and it's that it's

1504
01:35:14,479 --> 01:35:18,080
Speaker 1: now has been taken over by steel hunting, which has

1505
01:35:18,160 --> 01:35:22,920
Speaker 1: become d way to hunt. I've seen archery and muzzle

1506
01:35:22,960 --> 01:35:30,040
Speaker 1: loading hunting gain in tremendous popularity over the years. So

1507
01:35:31,320 --> 01:35:34,679
Speaker 1: if you look at deer hunting in the last twenty

1508
01:35:34,840 --> 01:35:39,559
Speaker 1: or fifty or seventy five years, it change has been

1509
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:42,519
Speaker 1: the bottom line to all of that. And we just

1510
01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:45,160
Speaker 1: have to keep up with that change, with with the

1511
01:35:45,200 --> 01:35:49,679
Speaker 1: demands of the future. And and we have to accept

1512
01:35:49,720 --> 01:35:54,639
Speaker 1: that some of these traditions where thin and and maybe

1513
01:35:55,400 --> 01:35:57,600
Speaker 1: it's time for them to go on the shelf. But

1514
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:03,120
Speaker 1: but that's just a natural progression. It's just the thing

1515
01:36:03,240 --> 01:36:08,000
Speaker 1: that it's happening. Whether social problems are causing that or

1516
01:36:08,080 --> 01:36:13,000
Speaker 1: biological problems or whatever. It's just we have always faced change.

1517
01:36:13,280 --> 01:36:19,640
Speaker 1: We've got to keep fasting it. Yeah, very true, very true.

1518
01:36:20,360 --> 01:36:26,679
Speaker 1: So for those still hunting right now. And two things.

1519
01:36:26,800 --> 01:36:29,639
Speaker 1: Number one, when you're referring to still hunting back there,

1520
01:36:30,000 --> 01:36:32,599
Speaker 1: when you're speaking about the difference, isn't hunting you were

1521
01:36:32,760 --> 01:36:35,080
Speaker 1: You were speaking more about the hunting from a stand

1522
01:36:35,200 --> 01:36:38,040
Speaker 1: or staying still right, not like the stalking type hunting.

1523
01:36:38,120 --> 01:36:42,040
Speaker 1: Or am I misinterpreting that there are there's some terminology

1524
01:36:42,120 --> 01:36:47,639
Speaker 1: that's different north and south. Uh uh, your way still

1525
01:36:47,720 --> 01:36:56,360
Speaker 1: hunting is stalking and down our way. Uh. Another way

1526
01:36:56,400 --> 01:37:02,040
Speaker 1: to describe stalking. A good friend of mine calls it

1527
01:37:02,240 --> 01:37:10,439
Speaker 1: slipping and tipping. I like that. Uh, it's moving. Uh.

1528
01:37:10,720 --> 01:37:14,640
Speaker 1: Most people move too quickly and see a lot of

1529
01:37:14,680 --> 01:37:19,280
Speaker 1: white flashes, and don't kill me in a deer. With

1530
01:37:19,439 --> 01:37:22,879
Speaker 1: that technique, you have to be able to move with stealth,

1531
01:37:23,720 --> 01:37:29,280
Speaker 1: very quietly, always stopping a shadow, always hunt into the

1532
01:37:29,320 --> 01:37:34,000
Speaker 1: wind or on a cross wind, and never never, never

1533
01:37:34,080 --> 01:37:38,120
Speaker 1: be in a hurry. Uh. There there's one exception to that,

1534
01:37:38,280 --> 01:37:41,240
Speaker 1: and I've got that in my book, Uh in a

1535
01:37:41,320 --> 01:37:45,599
Speaker 1: story called stalk Look Listen, And I use a little

1536
01:37:45,800 --> 01:37:50,840
Speaker 1: hand diagram of an old Tommy railroad crossing which used

1537
01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:55,360
Speaker 1: to say stop, look listen. I called mine stalk look listen,

1538
01:37:56,040 --> 01:38:00,599
Speaker 1: and it was designed for uh, for the rut. So

1539
01:38:00,720 --> 01:38:03,080
Speaker 1: the thing for you to do is to move rather

1540
01:38:03,240 --> 01:38:07,439
Speaker 1: quickly through the woods and keep your ears wide open

1541
01:38:07,600 --> 01:38:12,280
Speaker 1: for that tail tail sound of a h a courtship

1542
01:38:12,320 --> 01:38:16,320
Speaker 1: in progress. If you hear a buck grunting, and if

1543
01:38:16,360 --> 01:38:20,240
Speaker 1: the buck chases the dough through an opening beyond your range,

1544
01:38:20,840 --> 01:38:24,400
Speaker 1: wait until they're gone, and then move there quickly, because

1545
01:38:25,160 --> 01:38:28,720
Speaker 1: realizing the doe small home range, she'll likely circle our

1546
01:38:28,760 --> 01:38:31,080
Speaker 1: in and come right back through there, you'll be in

1547
01:38:31,080 --> 01:38:34,759
Speaker 1: a better position to make a good assessment of the buck.

1548
01:38:35,280 --> 01:38:38,400
Speaker 1: Shoot it if it's mature enough and it's what you want,

1549
01:38:38,920 --> 01:38:42,719
Speaker 1: or you know for sure you're chasing an adult deer,

1550
01:38:42,800 --> 01:38:46,280
Speaker 1: so you can you can take the antist deer. But

1551
01:38:46,600 --> 01:38:50,160
Speaker 1: that's the one time where you would stalk quickly. All

1552
01:38:50,200 --> 01:38:53,599
Speaker 1: the other times you just need to slow it down

1553
01:38:54,439 --> 01:38:58,960
Speaker 1: and stalk very slowly. But there's one difference north and south.

1554
01:39:00,520 --> 01:39:04,959
Speaker 1: When we talk about still hunting down here, we're referring

1555
01:39:05,080 --> 01:39:10,320
Speaker 1: to sitting still um on a stand that's either free

1556
01:39:10,360 --> 01:39:15,640
Speaker 1: standing or in a tree or now more recently in

1557
01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:19,960
Speaker 1: a ground blind. That's our definition of steel hunting. We

1558
01:39:20,080 --> 01:39:23,479
Speaker 1: sit there in wait for the deer to come to us. So,

1559
01:39:23,479 --> 01:39:27,000
Speaker 1: so speaking of of tactics and things along those lines,

1560
01:39:27,360 --> 01:39:30,040
Speaker 1: for those down in the southern half of the country

1561
01:39:30,560 --> 01:39:32,880
Speaker 1: or down you know, even more regionally, maybe by you

1562
01:39:33,240 --> 01:39:38,200
Speaker 1: whether they're hunting South Carolina or North Carolina anywhere around there. UM,

1563
01:39:38,240 --> 01:39:40,479
Speaker 1: for those guys that are still hunting in the late season,

1564
01:39:40,560 --> 01:39:44,080
Speaker 1: do you have any general advice for um for success

1565
01:39:44,120 --> 01:39:46,120
Speaker 1: at this time of year, now that we're in the December,

1566
01:39:46,560 --> 01:39:51,120
Speaker 1: kind of on the downhill slide of the season well

1567
01:39:52,080 --> 01:39:54,599
Speaker 1: down here. When we have a four and a half

1568
01:39:54,680 --> 01:39:59,639
Speaker 1: month season. By this time of the year, many hunters

1569
01:39:59,600 --> 01:40:04,160
Speaker 1: will look forward to that last day. They're pretty well

1570
01:40:04,200 --> 01:40:09,160
Speaker 1: hunted out. Uh. I, on the other hand, am looking

1571
01:40:09,240 --> 01:40:14,799
Speaker 1: forward to these remaining two weeks because I've done everything

1572
01:40:14,840 --> 01:40:17,240
Speaker 1: I need to do for this year. I've pretty well

1573
01:40:17,360 --> 01:40:20,479
Speaker 1: taken care of the freezer. I'm going to hunt every

1574
01:40:20,520 --> 01:40:25,160
Speaker 1: opportunity I can because my trail cameras keep telling me

1575
01:40:26,120 --> 01:40:28,960
Speaker 1: that there are bucks out there that know my Social

1576
01:40:29,000 --> 01:40:36,040
Speaker 1: Security number, that not only have I not seen them, uh,

1577
01:40:36,360 --> 01:40:40,559
Speaker 1: my cameras have not seen them in the daytime. And

1578
01:40:40,840 --> 01:40:46,479
Speaker 1: do these deer or denizens of darkness, they operate almost

1579
01:40:46,840 --> 01:40:49,479
Speaker 1: totally on a nocturnal basis, and they have the whole

1580
01:40:49,520 --> 01:40:54,960
Speaker 1: season even with very low hunting pressure. But but this

1581
01:40:55,040 --> 01:40:57,919
Speaker 1: is this is the bottom line to quality deer management.

1582
01:40:58,920 --> 01:41:03,400
Speaker 1: You go into the wood now knowing that those deer

1583
01:41:03,479 --> 01:41:07,640
Speaker 1: are there. In my early years, I went into the

1584
01:41:07,640 --> 01:41:12,719
Speaker 1: woods wishing and hoping that a deer of that caliber

1585
01:41:12,920 --> 01:41:17,599
Speaker 1: was there, and and didn't know that there was probably

1586
01:41:17,640 --> 01:41:20,320
Speaker 1: not a deer in the county where I was hunting

1587
01:41:21,080 --> 01:41:25,040
Speaker 1: that was a deer of my dreams. And if you're

1588
01:41:25,040 --> 01:41:28,960
Speaker 1: looking into the very first page of my book. There's

1589
01:41:29,000 --> 01:41:32,920
Speaker 1: a there's a painting that a friend of mine's mother

1590
01:41:33,040 --> 01:41:36,720
Speaker 1: did years and years ago, and it's a decent eight

1591
01:41:36,800 --> 01:41:40,920
Speaker 1: point buck chasing a dough. And the caption on that

1592
01:41:41,200 --> 01:41:46,920
Speaker 1: artwork was the dreams I had as a beginning hunter

1593
01:41:47,880 --> 01:41:54,200
Speaker 1: became reality only through management. And that's what we've done

1594
01:41:54,240 --> 01:41:58,120
Speaker 1: for ourselves. We have created, through quality deer management, a

1595
01:41:58,280 --> 01:42:03,000
Speaker 1: situation where going honey now has an element of promise,

1596
01:42:05,280 --> 01:42:09,280
Speaker 1: sometimes a thin promise, but an element of excitement as well,

1597
01:42:09,600 --> 01:42:12,719
Speaker 1: that those deer are there now. It's up to you

1598
01:42:13,080 --> 01:42:17,759
Speaker 1: to show your prowess and to cross paths with that animal.

1599
01:42:18,600 --> 01:42:23,040
Speaker 1: And the season may close without you ever seeing that animal,

1600
01:42:23,520 --> 01:42:27,440
Speaker 1: but you see their tracks, you find their shared antlers.

1601
01:42:27,560 --> 01:42:31,080
Speaker 1: After the season, you know they're there. You know they're

1602
01:42:31,080 --> 01:42:34,000
Speaker 1: going to be there next year, and even bigger next year.

1603
01:42:34,800 --> 01:42:39,760
Speaker 1: So for me, as a seventy year old, there's more

1604
01:42:39,840 --> 01:42:45,160
Speaker 1: excitement in hunting now than ever before, and and I

1605
01:42:45,200 --> 01:42:49,519
Speaker 1: think it's incumbent upon us to share that with every youngster.

1606
01:42:49,680 --> 01:42:52,360
Speaker 1: We can get them out there and let them know

1607
01:42:52,439 --> 01:42:56,200
Speaker 1: what's there, let them know that none of this is

1608
01:42:56,240 --> 01:43:00,280
Speaker 1: by accident. It's all by design and good management. And

1609
01:43:00,720 --> 01:43:05,240
Speaker 1: it's here because we've been good stewards. Yeah, yeah, I

1610
01:43:05,280 --> 01:43:07,960
Speaker 1: love that. I think that's that's so true. Kind of

1611
01:43:08,000 --> 01:43:12,439
Speaker 1: along those lines, maybe as we wrapped things up here, UM,

1612
01:43:12,439 --> 01:43:14,599
Speaker 1: I want to I want to steal a question from

1613
01:43:14,640 --> 01:43:16,880
Speaker 1: a guy named Tim Ferris that I follow, and he

1614
01:43:16,920 --> 01:43:19,720
Speaker 1: likes to ask this question to the guests of his podcast.

1615
01:43:19,720 --> 01:43:22,400
Speaker 1: I want to spend this one out to you, Joe. UM.

1616
01:43:22,439 --> 01:43:26,840
Speaker 1: It's kind of a concluding thought here. If you we're

1617
01:43:26,880 --> 01:43:30,639
Speaker 1: given a billboard on the side of the highway, let's say,

1618
01:43:30,640 --> 01:43:32,479
Speaker 1: maybe it's side of the highway leading to a bass

1619
01:43:32,479 --> 01:43:34,800
Speaker 1: Pro shops or Cabela's, and you knew there's gonna be

1620
01:43:34,800 --> 01:43:37,960
Speaker 1: a lot of deer hunters passing by that billboard. What

1621
01:43:38,400 --> 01:43:41,439
Speaker 1: phrase or words, what message would you put on that

1622
01:43:41,479 --> 01:43:49,240
Speaker 1: billboard for deer hunters to see? Uh? I tell you

1623
01:43:49,280 --> 01:43:54,640
Speaker 1: what a mental image would be A photograph or or

1624
01:43:54,640 --> 01:44:01,760
Speaker 1: a painting of a hutter, an older hunter sitting on

1625
01:44:01,920 --> 01:44:06,400
Speaker 1: a log next to a younger hunter, and that being

1626
01:44:06,520 --> 01:44:10,800
Speaker 1: viewed from behind, so you could in the foreground you

1627
01:44:10,840 --> 01:44:13,200
Speaker 1: can see the log and the two hunters sitting there,

1628
01:44:13,280 --> 01:44:15,719
Speaker 1: and you can see a view down through a valley

1629
01:44:15,920 --> 01:44:21,599
Speaker 1: of what they were looking at, and the message would

1630
01:44:21,640 --> 01:44:28,840
Speaker 1: be be a part of nature, become a good steward. Yeah,

1631
01:44:29,439 --> 01:44:34,960
Speaker 1: usually the shorter the message the stronger. But I think

1632
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:39,600
Speaker 1: the message I like to convey to other hunters and

1633
01:44:39,920 --> 01:44:43,240
Speaker 1: even to non hunters, there's a heck of a lot

1634
01:44:43,640 --> 01:44:49,439
Speaker 1: to get out of being in the outer doors, whether

1635
01:44:49,479 --> 01:44:51,599
Speaker 1: you're sitting on a stone or sitting on a log.

1636
01:44:52,439 --> 01:44:56,240
Speaker 1: But the importance of sharing that not only with a

1637
01:44:56,360 --> 01:45:00,439
Speaker 1: fellow hunter, but especially with a young hunter. Bring them

1638
01:45:00,479 --> 01:45:03,280
Speaker 1: on board so they can enjoy the things that you

1639
01:45:03,400 --> 01:45:11,880
Speaker 1: be long enjoyed and just enjoy being a part of

1640
01:45:11,960 --> 01:45:18,439
Speaker 1: nature and take pride in being a good steward. And

1641
01:45:18,439 --> 01:45:22,400
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, Mark, this was probably a closing comment,

1642
01:45:22,479 --> 01:45:25,280
Speaker 1: but I needed to make a couple of comments about

1643
01:45:25,320 --> 01:45:28,640
Speaker 1: the availability of my book. Was definitely gonna have to

1644
01:45:28,680 --> 01:45:30,920
Speaker 1: ask you about that for sure, so please do tell

1645
01:45:31,000 --> 01:45:37,720
Speaker 1: us um Well number one. It's available online through the

1646
01:45:37,800 --> 01:45:41,479
Speaker 1: q d m A. Just go to our website cdum

1647
01:45:41,520 --> 01:45:45,280
Speaker 1: A dot com, go to the store two books and

1648
01:45:45,360 --> 01:45:49,280
Speaker 1: you can order it that way. You can call our

1649
01:45:49,360 --> 01:45:54,120
Speaker 1: toll free number at our headquarters in Georgia, and that's

1650
01:45:54,360 --> 01:46:00,960
Speaker 1: eight hundred two oh nine three three three seven. The

1651
01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:04,800
Speaker 1: other way is to order it from Amazon. Just go

1652
01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:08,680
Speaker 1: to Amazon dot com type in firefot Stories and you

1653
01:46:08,720 --> 01:46:12,479
Speaker 1: can order it that way. The third way is to

1654
01:46:12,520 --> 01:46:15,160
Speaker 1: get it directly from me, and if you choose to

1655
01:46:15,240 --> 01:46:18,439
Speaker 1: take that route, I can personalize it. I can sign

1656
01:46:18,439 --> 01:46:22,519
Speaker 1: it to you or to someone you want to gift

1657
01:46:22,720 --> 01:46:26,840
Speaker 1: the book to. You just need to contact me through

1658
01:46:26,840 --> 01:46:31,680
Speaker 1: my email, which is j Hamilton's at q d um

1659
01:46:31,720 --> 01:46:35,320
Speaker 1: a dot com. I'll be glad to put it in

1660
01:46:35,360 --> 01:46:39,760
Speaker 1: the mail to you, UH with it signed to you.

1661
01:46:40,080 --> 01:46:42,439
Speaker 1: I'll put my name on it and a date. So

1662
01:46:42,800 --> 01:46:48,080
Speaker 1: those are the three ways. I really thank you for

1663
01:46:48,200 --> 01:46:52,800
Speaker 1: this opportunity. It's it's always good to talk with with

1664
01:46:52,880 --> 01:46:58,320
Speaker 1: fellow deer hunters, UH, locally and far away. I wish

1665
01:46:58,400 --> 01:47:02,080
Speaker 1: I could maintain eye contact while we were talking, but

1666
01:47:03,439 --> 01:47:07,040
Speaker 1: that'll that'll have to happen in the future. Yes, absolutely,

1667
01:47:07,240 --> 01:47:09,720
Speaker 1: it's always great to hear from you, Joe, and and

1668
01:47:09,840 --> 01:47:12,280
Speaker 1: I'd like to to thank you as well. Definitely appreciate

1669
01:47:12,320 --> 01:47:15,320
Speaker 1: your time sharing these stories and experiences with us. And

1670
01:47:16,280 --> 01:47:19,240
Speaker 1: I think you know, if I think it's evidence simply

1671
01:47:19,280 --> 01:47:22,559
Speaker 1: from this conversation, anyone hearing this that UM that what

1672
01:47:22,680 --> 01:47:24,519
Speaker 1: you have to say and that what you've put on

1673
01:47:24,520 --> 01:47:28,599
Speaker 1: on paper is worth worth taking a look at, hearing about,

1674
01:47:28,640 --> 01:47:31,759
Speaker 1: and reading. So definitely recommend everyone check out the book

1675
01:47:32,280 --> 01:47:35,160
Speaker 1: and Joe, thank you and best of luck with the

1676
01:47:35,200 --> 01:47:39,000
Speaker 1: rest of your season chasing those denizens of the darkness.

1677
01:47:40,800 --> 01:47:44,520
Speaker 1: Thanks Mark and just I just want all the listeners

1678
01:47:44,560 --> 01:47:48,280
Speaker 1: to know that the quote to Der Management Association is

1679
01:47:48,360 --> 01:47:54,080
Speaker 1: an organization that started uh almost thirty years ago. In fact,

1680
01:47:54,160 --> 01:47:58,839
Speaker 1: two thousand and eighteen is our thirtieth anniversary. The bottom

1681
01:47:58,880 --> 01:48:03,400
Speaker 1: line is we are an organization for all deer hunters.

1682
01:48:03,439 --> 01:48:07,080
Speaker 1: That that's your bottom line. We're looking out for you. Uh.

1683
01:48:07,160 --> 01:48:10,679
Speaker 1: Your future is our future. So if you're not, remember

1684
01:48:11,080 --> 01:48:14,799
Speaker 1: become one, and I think it will be a decision

1685
01:48:14,840 --> 01:48:18,800
Speaker 1: that you'll be happy you made. Mark, thanks again for

1686
01:48:18,840 --> 01:48:21,559
Speaker 1: your time and I look forward to seeing you soon.

1687
01:48:21,720 --> 01:48:25,479
Speaker 1: Enough sounds great, Joe, thank you, And that's going to

1688
01:48:25,560 --> 01:48:30,320
Speaker 1: wrap it up for us here today. A couple usual reminders.

1689
01:48:30,720 --> 01:48:33,320
Speaker 1: If you haven't yet, we we certainly would appreciate it

1690
01:48:33,320 --> 01:48:35,960
Speaker 1: if you'd leave a rating or review for this podcast

1691
01:48:36,080 --> 01:48:39,519
Speaker 1: on iTunes. It just takes a minute or less. If

1692
01:48:39,560 --> 01:48:41,479
Speaker 1: you could, you know, give us a star rating. Whatever

1693
01:48:41,520 --> 01:48:44,320
Speaker 1: you think. We deserve give us some feedback. That's something

1694
01:48:44,360 --> 01:48:46,559
Speaker 1: that we can use to try to make this podcast

1695
01:48:46,600 --> 01:48:48,360
Speaker 1: better in the future, so we'd love to see what

1696
01:48:48,439 --> 01:48:52,200
Speaker 1: you think. Um also, make sure that you're following Wired

1697
01:48:52,280 --> 01:48:54,800
Speaker 1: to Hunt across all of our different platforms. You know,

1698
01:48:54,840 --> 01:48:57,439
Speaker 1: this wire tone isn't just a podcast. I also run

1699
01:48:57,479 --> 01:48:59,880
Speaker 1: a website. We've got a lot of things going on

1700
01:49:00,040 --> 01:49:03,920
Speaker 1: on Facebook and Instagram and videos on YouTube, so make

1701
01:49:03,960 --> 01:49:06,799
Speaker 1: sure you're following Wired to Hunt across all those different places.

1702
01:49:07,320 --> 01:49:09,880
Speaker 1: And then, I guess finally, we do want to thank

1703
01:49:10,000 --> 01:49:13,479
Speaker 1: our partners who help make this podcast possible. So big

1704
01:49:13,520 --> 01:49:17,120
Speaker 1: thank you to sit to gear Yeddie Cooler's, Matthews Archery,

1705
01:49:17,240 --> 01:49:19,960
Speaker 1: may Haven Optics, the White Tailed Institute of North America,

1706
01:49:20,200 --> 01:49:24,600
Speaker 1: Trophy Ridge and hunt Terra Maps, and finally, most importantly,

1707
01:49:24,880 --> 01:49:28,919
Speaker 1: thank you to everyone out there listening. Appreciate your support.

1708
01:49:29,160 --> 01:49:31,719
Speaker 1: I appreciate you being a part of this community. And

1709
01:49:31,840 --> 01:49:34,280
Speaker 1: hopefully you are still hitting the woods hard trying to

1710
01:49:34,320 --> 01:49:37,040
Speaker 1: fill some final tags of the season, and assuming you are,

1711
01:49:37,479 --> 01:49:39,000
Speaker 1: I wish you all the luck in the world and

1712
01:49:39,080 --> 01:49:42,759
Speaker 1: until next time, stay Wired to Hunt.