WEBVTT - Zeta Reticuli 0:00:02.279 --> 0:00:05.600 Strange Arrivals is a production of I Heart Radio and 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:14.440 Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey. In this episode, you 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:17.880 will hear from Stanton Friedman, a leading researcher on the 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:21.799 Hill Encounter. A few months after I interviewed him, he 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:25.280 passed away at the age of eighty four. I had 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:29.160 a thoroughly enjoyable forty five minute conversation with him, during 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:32.000 which he answered all my questions at length and gave 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:35.720 me a good natured hard time about my skepticism. I 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:38.400 know his passing is a loss to the UFO community, 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:40.839 and I feel fortunate to have had the chance to 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:59.840 chat with him. October Margine. My qualification to do this research, 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:05.080 I've had one course of an astronomy in college about 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:08.120 twenty years ago, which doesn't amount too much except it 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:11.640 did show me to their placement and quite an interest 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:15.280 in that since childhood. But my main interest is in 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:19.600 biology and anthropology. My degree was in sociology. I went 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:23.800 back from my teaching credits later. I also had what 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:27.360 amounted to the pre med course with a great interest 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:35.360 in biology. Being passion is anthropology makes um euphorology so interesting, 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:39.120 and you can consider how many different kinds of cultures 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:42.400 there might be, and add to this a different biological 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:48.360 background which would lead into even more complex and far 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:54.480 reaching cultural differences. Aspects are highly intriguing, to say the least. 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:59.880 Betty Hill recalled being shown two objects while she was 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.240 on the spacecraft. The first was a type of book 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:08.120 containing alien symbols. We looked at this in the previous episode. 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:13.320 The second object was more compelling and it prompted exhaustive research. 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.040 Proponents of the Hill story point to it is evidence 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:22.040 that they were in fact abducted by aliens. This object 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:29.560 came to be called the star map. I'm tolbee ball. 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:52.120 This is Strange Arrivals Episode four, Zeta Reticuli. Betty and 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:57.560 Barney Hill reacted very differently during their abduction experience. Barney 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:00.840 spent much of the time in a day's responsive to 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:06.200 Betty's please. His hypnotic recall suggested that he regarded the 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:09.400 experience as something to be endured, and he kept his 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:13.960 eyes firmly shut from much of the ordeal. Betty, on 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:19.280 the other hand, told of being energized and engaged. In particular, 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:22.760 she carried on a conversation with one of the aliens, 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:26.880 whom she called the leader. She says, she asked the 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:31.800 leader to things. One was for a souvenir. The leader 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:35.040 gave her the book with the alien symbols and then, 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:39.760 to her frustration, took it back again. The second thing 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:44.480 she asked was where are you from. Here's Betty from 0:03:44.480 --> 0:04:00.000 her hypnosis session on March fourteenth land across the room. 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:07.000 Did the head of the table, and there was he 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:11.800 did something. It wasn't like a draw, he said, I 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:17.320 did something in the metal of the wall. There was 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:27.680 an opening and he pulled down a map. Man He 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:32.640 asked me, had I ever seen a map like this before? 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:42.040 And I watched across the room and I leaned against 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:47.359 the table and I looked at it. It was an 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:55.839 oblong nap and he said that the heavy lines were 0:04:56.160 --> 0:05:07.240 trade routes, and then the other lines the other that 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:19.120 the solid lines were place as they went Occasionally, he 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:33.360 said that it's a broken lines were expeditions. Betty asked 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.919 the leader to point out where he was from. He 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:38.280 responded by asking if she knew where the Earth would 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:41.640 be on the map. Betty said that she didn't. The 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:45.039 leader said that if that was the case, showing her 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.320 his home star on the map, wouldn't mean anything to her, 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.760 and he put it away. And this at first was 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:54.240 the whole story of the star map, as we're called 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:57.600 under hypnosis by Betty. Barney was not in the room 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:02.200 at the time and did not mention it. Dr Benjamin Simon, 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:05.599 the psychiatrist who conducted the hypnosis sessions with the Hills, 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:08.440 seems to have been intrigued by mention of the star 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:16.680 map Betty Hill from presentation. Dr Simon gave me a 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:20.760 post autumatic suggestion. He said, if I wanted to, I 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.440 could sketch the start map, but if I didn't want it, 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.240 I didn't have to. So about two weeks later I 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:30.240 sketched it. You can easily find images of her sketch 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:32.960 on the Internet. It was drawn on a single piece 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:37.480 of paper. Twenty one circles and dots representing stars are 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:41.120 spread across the page, some connected with lines and others 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:45.360 just by themselves. I wouldn't call the resulting map crude exactly. 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:49.240 Maybe casual is a better word. Think about what you 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.880 would draw if someone asked you for a map showing 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.000 how to get from the nearest highway to your house. 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.159 You'd probably get all the roads and turns right but 0:06:57.240 --> 0:06:59.840 with the length of the roads be perfectly to scale. 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.320 Betty's star map seems like a galactic equivalent of that 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:07.480 kind of map, but that's not how everyone perceived it. 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.200 A school teacher from Ohio named Marjorie Fish saw the 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:14.200 star map and thought it might reveal where the aliens 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:17.360 came from. She decided to try to figure out the 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.080 vantage point in our galaxy from which the map was made. 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.760 Working in the nineties, sixties and seventies, Marjorie didn't have 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:28.480 access to a computer to pursue her research. Her efforts 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:33.920 were decidedly analog, and they were extraordinary. In her living room, 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.560 she created a series of three dimensional models of the 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:40.400 nearby galaxy using beads hung from the ceiling by string. 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:47.160 Here's Stanton Friedman, a nuclear physicist and uphologist. He was 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:50.680 a leading researcher into the Hills story for fifty years 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:56.000 and knew both Betty and Barney and an A brilliant 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:59.640 woman named Marjorie Fish did something nobody else had ever done. 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:05.040 She about three dimensional models of our local galactic neighborhood. 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:09.520 Incredibly detailed work. I mean, her biggest model had two 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:12.520 hundred and fifty six stars in it. That means you've 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:15.520 got to have the location of the star before you 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:18.520 can build them model little beats hung on strings. That 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:21.400 is tedious work and now hard part at that time, 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:25.720 because it's hard to measure distances. It's easy to measure angles. 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:28.120 You know, we're in this sky to look. That's a 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:32.880 two dimensional problem. But how far away is it? Ah, 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:36.880 we had lousy data. She got the best data available. 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.440 She wound up building a total of more than twenty 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:45.640 three dimensional models and was able to find one and 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:50.400 only one pattern that matched what Betty had drawn. Angle 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:59.120 for angle, line length for line length. The Milne Special 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:03.040 Collections and Archive at the University of New Hampshire's Diamond 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:08.280 Library as a number of photographs of Marjorie Fish's models. 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:11.760 She either used cloth or paper to create a black background. 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.920 A huge number of beads are suspended in air by 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:20.800 strings attached to the ceiling. They look like super thin icicles. 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:25.079 Marjorie would examine the model from different spots and angles, 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:29.000 trying to find one that match Betty's star map. It 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:33.400 was exacting work. To get a sense of how detailed 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.680 her efforts were, we can listen to a recording she 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:42.200 made in late nineteen nine. During her work on her models, 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:46.160 she engaged in a correspondence with a scientist named Richard Lee. 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.120 In response to letters that he apparently wrote her with 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:54.720 questions about her methods. She sent audio tapes. Most of 0:09:54.720 --> 0:10:00.120 the conversation is technical and sounds like this. Right now, 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:05.400 I'm in the process of going through the metric parallax 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:08.760 catalog and pulling out all these stars in the parallax 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:13.880 of point zero four nine two point zero three. Oh, 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:17.760 this would take all the stars from sixty five light 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:20.280 years out to a hundred light years to supplement the 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:24.880 fleecy catalog so that a model can be constructed of 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.840 these stars. Now, this is one of my listing of 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:31.520 stars of good have plants with life, so I'm not 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:35.160 going to be including the stars brighter than F five. 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:39.800 And the work was frustrating too, because she was unable 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.680 to find a match in her model for Betty's map. 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:46.959 But then a scientific discovery suddenly unlocked the maps puzzle 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:50.880 and in the process seemed to suggest that it might 0:10:51.000 --> 0:11:00.640 truly have an extraterrestrial origin. Strange arrivals will return in 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:19.319 a moment. Marjorie Fish went to incredible lengths building complex 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.560 models to try to identify the vantage point of the 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:27.720 star map. Her efforts went unrewarded until new astronomical data 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:34.480 became available and she updated her model. Kathleen Martin, Betty's niece, 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:39.880 and a UFO researcher. This one was after three additional 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:45.120 stars were discovered by astronomers and she added them to 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.839 the map, and she changed the distance data on some 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:54.680 of the others, and then in two she had a match. 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:59.120 To be clear, what Kathleen is saying is that Marjorie 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:01.560 Fish was able to find a model that fit the 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:06.560 star map until three previously undiscovered stars were identified. Once 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:09.000 she added them to her model, she had a match. 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:13.839 The inference here is that there is only one way 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.960 Betty could have drawn the map with those stars. That is, 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:21.400 if the map that she saw that night had information 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:25.480 not known to scientists at the time. Could this be 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.760 proof that the map was not of earthly origin. The 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.200 next step was to have her work vetted for accuracy 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:35.480 and to be verified by the scientific community. Here's Marjorie 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:40.440 again from her audio correspondence. I had assumed that everyone 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:43.320 in the field wanted to know where they came from. 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:45.800 I put in cross references and extra datus, so it 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:47.440 could be a pot chect in the matter of an 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:49.760 hour or two and thoroughly check in our two days. 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:53.120 Point by point the model could be built and checked 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.960 inside of a week. Everything I've done can be checked. 0:12:57.400 --> 0:12:59.800 Since I've worked out all the methods, these could be 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.360 out and redone for are easier in the first time 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:08.720 of attack had to be lopped out. This is when 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:13.400 Stanton Friedman was called in as a nuclear physicist, and 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:17.720 this was his interest in the case. He was able 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:22.720 to find astrophysicists to vet Marjorie's work. It also ended 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:28.520 up being done as a computer generated analysis at Ohio 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:34.640 State University, and what they discovered is that the two 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:39.040 primary stars in the foreground were as they to reticulate, 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:43.440 one and two that are about thirty nine and a 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:48.600 half light years away, because one further away than the other, 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:53.559 but they were only about a light year apart, which 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:57.480 was fairly close. There were binary stars, but they could 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:03.040 possibly maintain a stable war but so theoretically planets would 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:08.400 be able to evolve around those stars, just like we 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:16.400 have with our son in our solar system. Now that 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:20.520 the stars had apparently been identified, more research could be 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:23.480 done on the map. Betty thought that she might be 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:26.000 able to use it to identify a purpose for the 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:31.920 alien journeys. What we know about the universe is still 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:34.920 all in a theory. We still don't know. You know 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:39.200 a lot of the speculation, but the speculation is that 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.840 there are party seven nearby stads that our astronomers believe 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:47.120 have a son, and planets and conditions very similar to us. 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:50.600 I could have advanced life now. I had sixteen of 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:54.240 those Friday seven stars on my map out of an 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:58.440 area of about two hundred studs in the sky. Uh 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:04.600 the broken law well willing to staff systems which are 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:08.280 younger than we are. Um, the heavy lines are going 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:12.240 to send systems our age older. So it's looking it 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:16.520 looks as though they're going out into the nearby staff systems, 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:21.200 looking them all, finding out the stage of advancement of life, 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:24.440 and if we're advanced enough, they come back and take 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.640 another look. If we're not, if they going to younger 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:30.440 planets and they're not advanced, they go out on an 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:35.760 expedition and then I'll go back others. Stanton Freedman in 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:39.520 particular sought to support the star map with scientific credibility. 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.800 As we'll see that effort was met with significant pushback. 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:50.040 I published her work in an article in UFO magazine. 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:53.080 I guess it was something like that. And then I 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:58.160 convinced Terry Dickinson, who was editor of Astronomy magazine. I 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:01.320 had met Jerry had attended one of my lectors, and 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.240 I told him about Marjorie's work and suggested he to 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.200 an article about it. Well, he talked to a whole 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:10.440 bunch of people. He wasn't gonna accept what I said. 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.680 I mean, that was interesting, and and he looked at 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:16.960 what I had published, and then he wrote an article. 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:18.720 He talked to Cross SAG and he talked to a 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:23.800 whole bunch of people. It got more response than anything 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:28.080 they'd ever published. And he carried letters over the next 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:31.920 year and finally put out at thirty two page full 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:38.520 color booklet, The Zeta Reticuli Incident, and sold ten thousand 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:42.720 copies right off the bat, which was incredible. And then 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:47.920 Carl Sagan's attorney complained because Carl's name was on the 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:51.120 cover with five other contributors I think it was five 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:59.880 something like then, and threatened to sue him. Terry Dickinson, 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:03.800 the editor of the Fledgling Astronomy Magazine, it had only 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:06.480 been in existence for a year and a half, was 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.960 clearly intrigued by the Hill's tail, and found the evidence 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:14.480 on balance to be inconclusive. His article ends with the sentence, 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:19.760 the only answer is to continue the search. Someday, perhaps soon, 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.800 we will know. This set off nearly a year's worth 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:28.520 of argument in Astronomy Magazine's letter section. This level of 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:32.000 interest led to the publication of the special edition titled 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:37.439 the Zeta Reticuli Incident. It contained Dickinson's original article and 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:41.119 then a series of letters and responses from scientists and 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:45.640 other experts. Carl Sagan was the host of the phenomenally 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:50.159 popular nine eighties television show Cosmos. He was perhaps the 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:54.360 most famous scientist in America. Marjorie felt that it would 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.200 be important to bring the star map to his attention 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.119 against the private him as the oddly enough, he's prejudice 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:06.639 against youthos. This may work our favor if he's reasonably fair, 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:09.880 although I've heard he may not be if I can 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.040 get him interested enough or mad enough to try to 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:14.200 find flaws in the data, and he can't. He says 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:17.840 so his word as a respected scientist and as an 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:22.080 a opponent to uthos will carry more weight. I found 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:23.719 a two falls in his work, and that just might 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.480 get him mad enough to want to find some in mine. 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:33.119 She got Siggin's attention all right. He sent letters to 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:37.800 Astronomy strongly taking issue with the star maps authenticity. When 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:41.080 the special edition was published, he threatened to sue Astronomy 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:44.000 Magazine because he had not given permission for his letters 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:47.120 to be reprinted. The issue was pulled from the shelves. 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:51.040 The entire data reticulous incident seems to be something of 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:55.600 a fondly remembered embarrassment to Astronomy Magazine. In the online 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:59.520 version of the original article, current editor David Ker writes 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:04.520 two things happened from this absurd tale. First, it sold 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:08.760 lots of books. Second, it nearly ruined the reputation of 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:12.600 this young Astronomy magazine. He also says it may have 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:18.280 caused Dickins in his job, as he was fired months later. Sagan, however, 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:21.520 was not finished with his public criticism of the star map. 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:26.359 His show Cosmos mostly focused on explaining space physics to 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:31.600 a general audience, but in episode twelve Encyclopedia Galactica, he 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:36.280 focused on the possibility of extraterrestrial life. In this episode, 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:40.080 there's a brief segment about Betty and Barney Hill. He said, 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:44.960 don't believe, Oh I don't. There must be a reasonable explanation. 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:50.320 The episode begins with the bizarre dramatization of the Hills 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:54.879 UFO encounter. Betty and Barney are depicted driving in the 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:59.000 rain and then lurching around in a stupor. It wasn't 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:02.600 raining the night of the Hills encounter. Of course, the 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:06.400 scene seems calculated to make them look as silly as possible. 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:11.400 After this unpromising start, the episode cuts to Carl Sagan, 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:16.840 looking dapper in a tan jacket and blue shirt. He 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:19.840 walks along the side of a grassy hill. He's carrying 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:21.679 a path of some sort that turns out to have 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:25.439 a simplified version of Betty's star map. This seems to 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.520 be the real reason for bringing up the Hills. He 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:31.920 goes through a sequence of comparisons between betty star map 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:34.879 and a map of the stars from Marjorie Fish's model. 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:39.080 The first comparison is between the two maps with the 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:44.400 lines indicating trade routes drawn in. Sagan says they look similar, 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:48.119 but mostly because of the lines. He then shows the 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:51.760 Fish map with a different set of lines strawn. Now, 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:56.439 as you'd expect, the maps suddenly look very different. But 0:20:56.520 --> 0:21:00.199 he doesn't stop there. The real test, he says, is 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:02.679 to take a look at the maps without any lines 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:07.240 drawn in to connect the stars and compare them that way. 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:10.680 When he shows these two maps, they don't look much 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:14.240 alike at all. Looking at this last pair of maps, 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:19.320 he concludes, as read by a voice actor, and then 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:23.400 there's very little resemblance left. But these particular stars are 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:27.640 selected from a large catalog of star positions. Our vantage 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:30.240 point in space is also selected to make the best 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:33.160 possible fit with the Hill map. If you can pick 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.440 and choose from a large number of stars viewed from 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:38.720 any advantage point in space you want, you can always 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:43.040 find something resembling the pattern you're looking for. I'm surprised 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:45.880 that nobody could find a better fit to the Hill map. 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:53.800 Not surprisingly, proponents of the Hill story were not amused. 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:58.840 In response to this episode, Stanton Friedman wrote a furious 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:02.840 letter to the senior vice president of kse CET, the 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:07.520 public broadcasting system station that produced Cosmos. In it, he 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:11.159 strongly objects to the portrayal of the Hill encounter and 0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:14.960 the segment on the star map. He says it is 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:17.680 part of a clear attempt to set science up on 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:22.760 one side and believers UFO enthusiasts on the side of 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:29.399 religion and superstition and obviously not scientific. Freedmen clearly objects 0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:34.960 to Sagan's tone regarding quote unquote UFO enthusiasts. But the 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:38.720 real question here is whether the map that Betty drew 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:42.040 on a sheet of paper based on her hypnotically regressed 0:22:42.080 --> 0:22:46.440 memory provides an accurate tool to identify a distinct group 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:50.520 of stars. I'd be willing about that if you took 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:52.840 a handful of sunflowers so he's dropped them on a 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:55.200 piece of paper and mark their locations, that you would 0:22:55.200 --> 0:22:58.040 be able to find someplace in the universe that matched 0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:02.160 that pattern at some rain chet some orientation, at some scale. 0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:06.840 This is author Jim McDonald. I'd also be willing to 0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:11.119 bet that the the Hill map matches somewhere else in 0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:15.000 the universe as well, or better that it matches uh 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:19.439 the setter reticulised site. I will also bet that that 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:25.080 same map matches the pattern of some group of towns, cities, 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:29.600 or villages somewhere in the world. At some orientation, at 0:23:29.640 --> 0:23:33.960 some range, at some scale, or that it matches the patterns, 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:36.760 and somebody of water islands at some body of water 0:23:36.880 --> 0:23:41.080 at some range, at some scale, at some orientation, unless 0:23:41.119 --> 0:23:43.680 and until we get to set articular and find little 0:23:43.720 --> 0:23:47.520 gray aliens. Uh, it's nothing. It's dots on a piece 0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:50.760 of paper, which you or I could make dots on 0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:54.199 a piece of paper. But it is not just the 0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:57.159 process of matching Betty's map to an actual part of 0:23:57.160 --> 0:24:00.919 the galaxy that causes problems. How how accurate could the 0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:04.600 map possibly be? Think about how difficult it would be 0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:07.840 to precisely place a series of dots and lines on 0:24:07.920 --> 0:24:10.920 a piece of paper based on something you've seen two 0:24:11.040 --> 0:24:16.520 years ago, Hosts of the Skeptoid podcast, Ryan Dunning. The 0:24:16.600 --> 0:24:19.159 claim associated with this map is that she saw this 0:24:19.240 --> 0:24:23.000 on a wall in the spaceship and then two and 0:24:23.000 --> 0:24:26.240 a half years later, remembered what it looked like, and 0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:30.160 during the hypnosis session drew this out, drew these dots 0:24:30.160 --> 0:24:33.680 on a piece of paper, and based on that, we're 0:24:33.720 --> 0:24:37.320 supposed to believe that this is an absolutely accurate, you know, 0:24:37.440 --> 0:24:42.400 to the micron depiction of stars in our local galaxy. 0:24:42.480 --> 0:24:46.920 Here somewhere that's an awfully weak point right there. When 0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:49.919 you look at a map showing a dozen dots that 0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:52.600 are in a random more or less a random distribution, 0:24:53.000 --> 0:24:55.480 are you going to be able to reproduce the positions 0:24:55.520 --> 0:24:58.359 of each one of those exactly more than two years later? 0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:02.040 That strange credib pility right there. There's no reason to 0:25:02.119 --> 0:25:06.879 think her memory of that star map would be remotely accurate, 0:25:07.200 --> 0:25:09.320 let alone accurate at all. I mean, the brain simply 0:25:09.359 --> 0:25:13.040 doesn't work that way. Our brains are not digital recorders. 0:25:13.040 --> 0:25:16.919 Our brains are abstraction engines. When you look at a 0:25:17.000 --> 0:25:20.080 map that shows a dozen dots, the only thing your 0:25:20.119 --> 0:25:23.440 brain stores is that there were a dozen dots randomly 0:25:24.119 --> 0:25:27.439 distributed on that paper, and that's the best you can 0:25:27.480 --> 0:25:29.920 do when you try to reproduce it later. There's no 0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:32.040 reason to think that this map could have been an 0:25:32.040 --> 0:25:39.320 accurate representation of something she'd seen two years before. Carl 0:25:39.400 --> 0:25:41.879 Sagan and Jim McDonald may have been right that you 0:25:41.920 --> 0:25:44.840 can find matches for any random array of stars if 0:25:44.840 --> 0:25:48.440 you search enough, But with what we know now, that 0:25:48.480 --> 0:25:52.320 seems almost beside the point, Because it is nearly impossible 0:25:52.400 --> 0:25:55.040 to believe that Betty could sketch a replica of the 0:25:55.080 --> 0:25:59.080 star map with the incredible degree of accuracy needed to 0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:04.640 identify Zata Reticuli as the alien's point of origin. This 0:26:04.680 --> 0:26:07.320 doesn't prove that Betty wasn't shown a star map by 0:26:07.359 --> 0:26:10.840 the leader or aboard a spaceship, merely that the chances 0:26:10.960 --> 0:26:14.320 that she could produce an accurate replica are essentially zero. 0:26:15.920 --> 0:26:19.600 Late in life, when more accurate data about the characteristics 0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:23.920 and locations of stars in our galaxy became available, Marjorie 0:26:23.920 --> 0:26:28.280 Fish concluded that her identification of Zeta Reticuli was not accurate. 0:26:28.960 --> 0:26:31.960 This view was mentioned in the obituary that ran when 0:26:31.960 --> 0:26:38.000 she died on April eight. Quote later, after newer data 0:26:38.080 --> 0:26:41.760 was compiled, she determined that the binary stars within the 0:26:41.800 --> 0:26:45.880 pattern were too close together to support life, so, as 0:26:45.880 --> 0:26:49.000 a true skeptic, she issued a statement that she now 0:26:49.119 --> 0:26:53.840 felt that the correlation was unlikely. Even if you concede 0:26:53.840 --> 0:26:56.400 that using the star map to locate the alien's point 0:26:56.440 --> 0:26:59.720 of origin is a dead end, it doesn't really prove 0:26:59.840 --> 0:27:04.119 the the Hill's abduction experience didn't happen. There's still this. 0:27:05.200 --> 0:27:09.360 Betty and Barney were hypnotized separately and told similar mutually 0:27:09.440 --> 0:27:14.720 supporting stories, stories they hadn't remembered before their hypnosis sessions. 0:27:15.880 --> 0:27:18.560 How can you explain this if they hadn't actually been 0:27:18.600 --> 0:27:24.399 abducted during those missing hours? Next time on Strange Arrivals. 0:27:27.960 --> 0:27:30.919 Strange Arrivals is a production of I Heart Radio and 0:27:31.000 --> 0:27:34.639 Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey. This episode was written 0:27:34.680 --> 0:27:37.760 and hosted by Toby Bowl and produced by Miranda Hawkins 0:27:37.800 --> 0:27:41.800 and Josh Thane, with executive producers Alex Williams, Matt Frederick 0:27:41.960 --> 0:27:45.640 and Aaron Manky. Betty Hill was portrayed by Gina Rickikey. 0:27:46.400 --> 0:27:51.280 Barney Hill was portrayed by Jason Williams. Special thanks to 0:27:51.320 --> 0:27:54.439 the MILM Special Collections and Archives at the University of 0:27:54.480 --> 0:28:00.080 New Hampshire, John Horrigan, w y Am in Norwich, connectic it, 0:28:00.760 --> 0:28:04.240 John White and David O'Leary, the executive producer of The 0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:08.800 History Channel's dramatic series Project Bluebook. Learn more about the 0:28:08.800 --> 0:28:11.800 show over at Grimm and Mile dot com. For more 0:28:11.880 --> 0:28:14.879 podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 0:28:15.040 --> 0:28:18.440 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.