WEBVTT - How Burlesque Works 0:00:00.880 --> 0:00:04.360 Welcome to stuff you should know front House Stuff Works 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:13.160 dot Com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clarkin. 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:17.000 With me is always this Charles W. Chuck Bryant, Yeah, 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:22.280 and over there's Jerry and this you should bob boom 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:25.400 ba ba boom. You know there's a name for that 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:29.640 song for the burlesqui strip teas what is it called 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:35.000 boo d D. That's called the Stripper by David Rose, 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:37.120 who also did the Little House of the Prairie thing. 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:41.480 Really that was all about keeping your clothes on. He's 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:45.159 actually like one of my favorite dudes. Instrumental easy listening 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:50.839 stuff and he does like soft rock versions of like no, 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:54.720 he does instrumental easy listening versions of soft rock songs. 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.280 So he makes soft rock softer. Yeah wow, like you 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:01.960 can't even slip through your fingers, you know. But yeah, 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:04.480 the Stripper is what it's called. And I'm sure you've 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:06.800 probably heard it at burlesque shows, because we should come 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:10.880 out and say I've never been to one, but you have. Yeah, 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:13.120 I went to one of New York City. Yeah, uh, 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.160 kind of the home of burlesque. Sure, it's one of 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:19.360 the certainly one of the capitals of neo burlesque New 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:21.280 York in l A or where it started in the 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:23.600 mid nineties. And I had a lot to do with 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:26.320 where it started in the you know, late eighteen hundreds 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:29.400 in early nineteen You're right, that is absolutely true. Yeah, 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:31.880 I went to one. Uh you know, it's fun. I 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:36.760 like throwback stuff, and um, I just I appreciate people 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:39.920 trying to bring stuff back, you know, especially like really 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:44.520 old school stuff, not like eighties like clothing. Are you 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.880 referring to my swatch? No? And what about my Ocean 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:53.000 Pacific wind breaker? Wow? I didn't notice. No, I love 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:56.760 eighties clothing. I'm just saying when I'm talking about bringing 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.600 it back, I mean, like you know, the pantaloons and 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:02.960 the whole burless things. They definitely they have totally like 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:05.640 gone all in and as a result, it's been successful. 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:09.200 It's been a very successful burlesque revival. It's like a movement. Yeah, 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:12.400 you can throw a stone in America and you're gonna 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:15.600 hit a burlesque troop. Just throw it, close your eyes 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:17.280 and throw it. You don't even have to throw it. Well, 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:21.680 it'll hit a burlesque trooper. Um. And that's a pretty 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:25.400 recent phenomenon. But it's kind of taken off like a rocket. Um, 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:28.760 but you're saying it's true to form, true to the original. Yeah, 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:30.760 the one I saw was very much so. It was 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:34.800 you know, sort of body and had some humor and um, 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:37.720 of course strip tease action, but not like you know, 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:40.360 the the strip club type of thing. It's it's supposed 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.839 to be like kitchy can't be stripped teases typically, right, yeah, 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:48.280 like titillating and body, but not, um, it's not just 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:50.800 like a strip club strip no, no, no, no, not 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:53.120 at all. It's like dancing and fun and you know, 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:54.520 it's a good time. People are laughing and have a 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:58.320 good time, whereas strip clubs are kind of like scary 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.880 to me, they are at least right. Um. So, you know, 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:04.120 stripping actually came out of burlesque and then just kind 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.799 of went off on its own direction. But it's still 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:12.800 associated with burlesque. We'll we'll get into this. Um. Well, now, okay, 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:14.799 let's talk about the history of this. I should say, 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:19.080 chuck that if you look into burlesque, especially neo burlesque, Um, 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:22.400 there's a real discussion about whether or not it's pro 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:26.960 feminist or counter feminist. Basically, yeah, it's pretty interesting. If 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:31.040 you speak to um, a burlesque, a neo burlesqu ar, 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.360 read their words or writing or whatever, um, you're going 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:38.400 to find that they most likely identify as feminist or 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:43.600 at the very least with feminism. Um. And that doesn't 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:46.920 always jibe with how feminists think of them though. Yeah, 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:49.920 and especially these days with the new stuff they um, 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:53.800 you know, these are productions by women, uh, costuming by women, 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:56.680 produced by women, performed by women, which follows women in 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.120 the audience, right, and then so it's empowering for a 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:02.160 lot of women, Like that's part of the the attraction 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:04.480 of it is it is it's women doing their own 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:08.360 thing and they're doing it and they're they're doing it. Well, 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:10.560 it's it's you're right, there's a couple of schools of 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:14.760 thought period about that. It's like, does a woman take 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.200 her clothes off her money? Is that exploiting her? Or 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:19.800 is that a woman who's very comfortable with her body 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:23.680 and sexuality exploiting men for their dough? Right? But you 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:26.560 just you just said the magic word to men, Like 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:30.800 what is it seems to be like the baseline argument 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:34.520 is whether or not burlesque is for the male gays 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:40.479 or for women empowerment. Yeah, well, I think when we 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:42.720 look at the history, we'll see that it was generally 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.960 run by men back in the day and now is 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:49.560 more run by women, right, But originally it wasn't run 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:52.760 by men. It was originally no, it was originally women 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:55.400 producers back in the nineteenth century. And that's where you 0:04:55.440 --> 0:05:00.560 get the association of women doing this stuff um on 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:03.719 their own. It's that's a true throw back to the 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:06.920 original founding of it. So let's go back in time. Then, 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.599 let's go to the history of burlesque. Let's go over 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:12.920 to Great Britain where it started. It's eight forty and 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:17.000 here we are in England and ladies are very well 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.679 covered up. It's the Victorian era. Like neck to ankle 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:24.719 and skin is not in fashion, and so to see 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:28.440 a woman show a little skin, even if it's an ankle, 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:32.000 is a very big deal, right. So imagine that if 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:34.520 you went to a performance of a show and it 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:38.200 was a kind of this weird satirical spoof of maybe 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:43.479 a Greek comedy, but it was lampooning current cultural and 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:50.000 political um items. But it was an all female troop 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:54.479 and the producer's name was a woman's name, and the 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:59.840 troop was wearing tights, their their legs weren't covered, right. That. 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:04.160 That's what you call a cultural explosion, and people went 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:07.680 nuts for it, Yeah, they did. The word burlesque comes 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:12.720 from the Italian burlesco, or even further back, burla, which 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:16.040 means to ridicule um. And basically it's what like these 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:19.240 days would call satire. Yeah, it was. They were spoofs. 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:23.359 They would spoof the upper class and spoof operas and 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:27.840 plays and Shakespeare and all those snotty snots that had 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.480 hangups in the upper echelons of society. They would make 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.120 fun of them. Yeah, like you wore a monocle, you're 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:37.200 gonna get skewered in a in a burlesque show. Yeah. Um. 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:41.600 And the burlesque show itself was lots of song and 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:46.839 dance and um, musical numbers. Um. But it was. There 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:49.600 were two aspects of it from the beginning that survived 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:52.360 even to today. There's humor to its supposed to be 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:58.000 funny um. And there was nudity of some form. Both 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:00.800 of those were found in the first burlesque. Yeah. And 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:04.480 depending on what nudity meant back then today, like the 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:07.880 nudity could be wearing tights. Yeah exactly. You know, here's 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:11.720 my knees right like faint, prepared to faint right, um. 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:15.720 Because yeah, this was the very buttoned up Victorian era. Um. 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.760 So it was a pretty big smash in Great Britain, 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:23.760 and the earliest plays made enough money, um that they 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:26.960 shipped over to America. And in America there was a 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:31.000 The first one technically was called The Black Crook, and 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.520 it was a very big success. Yeah, the Black Crook. 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:35.960 Like I said, it was Broadway, it was the eighteen 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:41.040 sixty six at this point. And uh, they had um 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:43.760 pantaloons on. But the pantaloons only went down to their 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:46.600 mid thigh, which is a big deal. So from they're 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.200 wearing shorts in other words, yeah, you know, the big 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:52.440 puffy pantaloons from the mid thigh down. They had nothing. 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:55.040 They had no sleeves. They had the bodices with no sleeves. 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.320 There's another huge deal. It sounds like exactly like the 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:01.760 French illustration of like a can't hand answer. Yeah, pretty 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:05.760 much except more skin probably. Uh. And then the reviewers 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:08.600 that went nuts for it, um, like some of them 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:10.600 went nuts in a bad way and called it like filth. 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:14.120 But other ones said, you know, remarked about there were 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:16.520 no clothes to speak of, but they had never seen 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:18.640 something like it's so amazing in their life. Yeah, it 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:22.560 was like just quite a spectacle. And the the the 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:27.080 reviewers that reviewed positively, uh felt the ire and pressure 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:33.440 of the puritanical sect um, which was pretty loud back then. Uh, 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:37.400 And they changed their tune. So then you had nothing 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.160 but bad reviews of these things. But they were loud, 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:44.600 bad reviews, and that just drew more audiences. Yeah, but 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:47.880 they were like noteworthy. People were going to these shows 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:49.880 early on, which was a big deal. It wasn't just 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:53.280 it did go back underground. But at first, like Mark 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:57.319 Twain went to UH, one called the Four British Blonds. 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:59.760 It was a troop and he said, the scenery and 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:03.880 are everything girls nothing but a wilderness of girls stacked up, 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:07.120 pile on, pile away, aloft to the dome of the theater, 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:11.280 dressed with a meagerness that would make a parasol blutch. Yeah, 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.360 ta can turn of phrase, sure, Mark Twain, he was 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:17.080 a great writer. But another show came along after that too, 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:21.360 that was a really big deal. Right, this is technically um, 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:24.240 I don't know. I guess it was maybe the one 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:27.160 that really maybe the Black Crook proved that this thing 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.760 could be lucrative. And then the one that followed, ixion 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:35.240 Um was the first true burlesque show to arrive in 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:37.040 the US. Yeah. I think Black Crook was a little 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.560 It was a Broadway show that just titilated, and so 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:42.920 people said, who was who was the lady? Her name 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.319 is Lydia Thompson. She was a burlesque producer. I think 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:48.920 she was like, you guys want to be titilated? Yeah, 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:51.520 check this, let's do it for real. And she dropped 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:53.840 a burlesque show on him, which, now that we're talking 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:55.520 about this, I just realized I have been to a 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.920 burlesque show in Vegas. Oh yeah, yeah. It was at 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:04.840 uh uh one of the older casinos Circus Circus No, no, no, 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.920 Golden Nugget. No, not that old. I can't remember, but 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:13.840 it was. It was called Jubilee. It was boring. Yeah. Well, 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:15.760 the one I went to was in like a tiny 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:18.320 little bar in New York. This wasn't neo. This is 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:20.880 like straight up I think it had been performed ever 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:24.480 since the sixties or something. Yeah, it was just I 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:26.320 kept waiting for them to stop in the middle and 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:28.840 be like, where's this kidding, here's the real show. But 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.880 they didn't. It was so strange. I think everyone should 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.920 go see Jubilee and just it's bizarre. Yeah, you know, 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.920 it sounds like one of those old Vegas shows. Um, 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:41.120 so okay, so Ixion comes along and it's a it's 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:47.160 one of those Greek comedies updated to lampoon contemporary society 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:50.839 and culture. Um, and people love it. And you said 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:52.959 Mark Twain went to one of these things that he 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.120 went to more than one. That's really saying something because 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.600 originally burlesque in the eighteen forties was created for the 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:00.720 lower classes in the middle class, just to make fun 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:03.560 of the upper classes. When it comes to America, it's 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.600 not just attracting the lower classes, it's attracting the middle classes. 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:10.120 Is attracting upper class society, possibly in part because it's 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.079 still making fun of the British. You know. Um, I 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:14.439 don't know if it would have been quite as well 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:17.440 received by the upper classes in American society if they 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.120 had come to make fun of America. But in very 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:24.120 short order, within just a few years, Lydia Thompson's success, 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:27.320 Um with her production, which by the way, netted six 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:30.360 or gross six point six million dollars in two thousand, 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:33.280 twelve dollars. And it's one first season. That's awesome. It 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:37.959 was like three seventy thousand and in eighteen seventy dollars um. 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:41.040 But based on her success, Americans started making their own 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:44.360 very quickly. Yeah, and um, it was in the eighteen 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:48.160 eighties a short time later that the male uh managers 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.080 and producers kind of took over because of course they 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:53.440 were already doing uh, you know, producing things, but they 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:57.440 saw that there was definitely money to be made. Right, Oh, hey, women, 0:11:57.640 --> 0:11:59.520 you you guys are living the dream. You're doing your 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:03.720 own thing. You're being empowered. Now we're taken over. But 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:08.320 it was still too titillate uh into spoof. But uh, 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:12.480 there was definitely a little more uh attention paid to 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:16.520 the strip tease part of it, well, right, I mean, 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:20.240 the the showing, the leg the costuming, the the just 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:24.920 kind of um, just shimmying around on stage definitely started 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.520 to come more towards the four but the strip teeth 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.800 hadn't been introduced yet. The first stripper was a woman 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:35.360 named Little Egypt, who did the first public strip um 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:40.000 at the World's Fair in Chicago. What was it called 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:45.640 the the Houchiuchi seriously uh, and that caused quite a stir. 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.880 It was still you you could find a striptease here there, 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:53.160 but it was underground still like stag parties and stuff 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:55.920 like that. Right, so burlesque was still there, were you. 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:57.960 I mean, you went to a burlesque show, you're gonna 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:02.160 be titillated. But still it was the lampooning, the hilariousness 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.520 of it. They were stand up comics. Yeah. Well, things 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:09.840 really change when a producer named Michael, uh, Michael, leave it, 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:14.160 love It, Love It. Yeah, okay, when he when he 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.719 started like a modern producer. Yeah, you know, well he 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.640 kind of was. He He claims he coined the term vaudeville, 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:24.200 although if he claimed it, then it's probably not the case. 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:28.080 I made that up. See um. But when he started producing, 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:30.280 he basically put it in a three act format like 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:35.280 the three act minstrel shows of days before, with Act 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:40.920 one being um, just an ensemble entertainment UM skits, gags, jokes, 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:44.800 fully dressed in formal clothing. Uh. Then Act two, which 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:48.840 was like a hodgepodge of comic skits, and singing acts 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.480 and things like that, and then finally act three, which 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:53.760 was what they called a burletta, which was a full 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:57.040 one act musical burlesque. That was that's when they would 0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:00.880 usually like spoof Shakespeare or somebody. Right, So that format 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.040 became the format for all burlesque shows to follow what 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:08.240 was at the eighteen eighties. Uh yeah, okay, Um. And 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:10.640 what he did was he took what was traditionally the 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:14.680 burlesque show, which was this spoofy play, and condensed it 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.280 into one act, the third act, and then added this 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:21.000 other stuff exactly. So vaudeville and burlesque are kind of 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.840 co evolving at the same time. Apparently this man was 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:30.480 patient zero. I hadn't heard that. But um, the vaudeville, 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:32.920 for some reason had a little more of a better 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:36.760 reputation burlesque. They weren't taking the clothes off, I guess so. 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:40.680 But um, you found a lot of the same um elements, 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.680 especially stand up comedy, and there were some, um, really 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:50.680 great legendary comics like Jackie Gleason and um I hope yeah, 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:55.240 Read Skelton, W. C. Fields, Fanny Bryce, Funny Girl. UM 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.520 who started out in burlesque graduated to Vaudeville and then 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:01.840 went on to TV. Um just basically followed the media 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:05.880 as it went. But some of those people, Um, they'll 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:10.400 look down on burlesque, but they still exactly when they 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:12.760 needed money, they would adopt the pseudonym and they could 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:16.040 do a little burlesque to her. Because burlesque was a 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:20.640 lot steadier income. It was virtually guaranteed income. Vaudeville was 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:24.680 a little more respected, but burlesque was guaranteed work. Yeah. 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:26.880 And this writer name HERB Goldman wrote a book called 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:30.160 Fanny Bryce, The Original Funny Girl, where he pretty much 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:32.880 came out and said, like, by the time he got 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:35.680 to Vaudeville your seasons, burlesque was the proving ground if 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:37.720 you wanted to get in the show business. Yeah. For 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.320 ladies and men. Men were the comics at the time 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:44.000 typically Yeah, and um, we can thank burlesque also for um, 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:47.720 the word top banana and second banana. Yeah, I had 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:49.880 to do with the comics in like a comedic group. 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:52.240 The guy who was the straight man or whatever, like Mo, 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:55.160 he would have been the top banana, and then Larry 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.160 might have been second banana, and Curly would have been 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:59.080 third banana. I thought you were talking about the Simpsons 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:03.680 for a second, It's like Mo would be the top banana. Yeah, probably, 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:05.920 I don't wonder who is the top banana in the sentence. 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.720 I don't think they followed that schematic. No, not at all. 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:14.120 Oh god, So early nineteen hundreds nineteen o five, there 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:19.200 began to be vaudeville style circuits going around sort of 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:24.160 like a traveling circus, and uh, they played in rotations, 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:26.520 so they became known as wheels. And they had the 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:30.280 Columbia Wheel on the eastern US, the Empire Wheel on 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.920 the western US, the Mutual Wheel, which I'm not sure 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:35.760 where that was probably the Midwest, Midwest. And then there 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:37.920 was a fourth wheel called the Independent that actually went 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:42.160 bankrupt because they were too dirty. They refused to change, 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:44.400 so they would get shut down so much they just 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:46.480 couldn't hang. Yeah, and that was the thing that would 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:50.320 happen um with the burlesque house. Um. And these wheels 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:54.560 were basically just circuits that involved burlesque houses around you know, 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:57.760 a certain region, and they were so established and these 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:01.600 shows were so guaranteed to draw a crowd that these 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:05.280 wheels were um. They would last for forty weeks. So 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:07.920 you're getting a burlesque troop and you had steady work 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:10.720 for forty weeks out of the year. That's just that's 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:14.560 your life, that's your livelihood. And um, this went on 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.800 for like thirty years like this, So I mean, think 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:20.840 about it. In show biz, there was for three decades 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:23.920 a place where you could go and get steady work 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.119 and basically make your career for your life, especially as 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:31.000 a woman at the time, you know. Uh, and well 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:34.480 we're in the nineteen hundreds, but from the eighteen eighties forward. Uh, 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:38.960 like you said, comedy was mainly um, working class, and 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:40.639 it kind of occurred to me that that laid the 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:45.560 groundwork for sitcoms. Oh yeah, because like the Family, like 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.640 so many not most, but well maybe most sitcoms are 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:51.639 kind of aimed towards like working class regular people, right, 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:55.119 King of Queens. Not everything is a fresh princip bel air, right. 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.879 You know, Well, that's that's kind of follows in the 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:01.680 burlesque um tradition because they're making fun of the upper 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:05.919 class by insinuating somebody from the lower lower middle class 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:08.959 into the upper class to point out all of the 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.879 foibles of the rich. Yeah, I guess, I guess you're right. 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:13.679 I never really thought I was trying to rack my 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:17.080 brain for sitcoms based on rich people and most of 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.360 well that's what I was just thinking. But they kind 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:24.120 of mocked them as well. I don't remember Soberspon's being mocky. 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:26.040 Oh yeah, I guess you're right. But think about it, 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:29.639 like the most all sitcoms involved the working class mass. 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.359 Those were working class doctors, and you know, like you 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:34.359 took something from the upper class and put them in 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:39.280 the battlefield. That's working class. Now, King of Queen's Archie Bunker, Jefferson's, 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:41.359 they were all sort of middle class to working class 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:45.440 because no one wants to sit around watch funny rich people. 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.960 Different strokes with rich people. But they pointed out the 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:53.200 foibles a little bit too. Two poor kids though, Yeah, yeah, man, 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:58.560 we are smart dudes. We just cracked the sitcom enigma. 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:01.680 Everyone's like, we knew that, right. Uh So one of 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:05.560 the big um parts of the comedy bits in burlesque 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:10.360 was word play, and this is where Abbot and Costella, 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.879 even though Who's on first wasn't invented, uh, in burlesque, 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:15.959 it was definitely hone there. Oh I thought it was 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:19.000 invented there. Now they that's where they like really got 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:23.760 got their stuff down. Um. But it was very often uh, 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:27.840 a lot of intricate word play, misunderstood words. Um. And 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:29.560 I think we should do this a bit, the Cohen 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:33.879 and Cohen bit. Okay, you're prepared to do that. I am, Okay, 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:37.680 I am, so I'll be uh, you be the caller, okay, 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:41.199 and I will be the person who answers that a right, 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:44.200 So I ring you up, ring, ring ring, Hello Cohen, Cohen, 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:47.040 Cohen and Cohen. Let me speak to Mr Cohen. Oh, 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:49.280 he's dead these six years, we keep his name on 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:51.680 the door out of respect. Well, then let me speak 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:55.560 to Mr Cohen. Well he's on vacation. Well then let 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.920 me speak to Mr Cohen. He's out to lunch. Ah, 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:03.800 let me speak to Mr Going speaking. Don't that was 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:06.280 pretty good? That was real good. We didn't even practice that. 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:10.240 We should go on the road. Yeah, let's do that. Yeah, 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:12.280 yeah we should. What do you think about doing some 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:14.840 sort of stuff you should know tour? I think we 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.280 totally should. I mean, we already have done variety shows 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:20.359 and all we need is a strip tease act and 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:22.800 we're burlesque. Well, let's do a variety show. Or like 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:25.040 maybe a trivia tour or something like that. Let's hit 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:29.000 the road, man, that's it. Did we just birth birthing idea? 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:31.399 I think? So? All right, okay, people can be like, 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:35.880 come to Minneapolis, come to Kansas City. Man, you better 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:39.240 not be wearing monocles because you're going to feel the sting. 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:41.560 I think if we do tour that we should go 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:44.920 to you know, all over Yeah, not just like oh 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:47.720 New York in l A. No, No, we'll do like 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:50.080 a little little tour. Yeah, okay that we'll do the 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:55.840 mutual circuit or the mutual Wheel. We'll do all three wheels. Um. So, 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:59.400 burlesque developed to the point where they had a their 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:03.879 own language, basically like many you know, industries in the 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:08.119 entertainment business. Um, but you can guess my favorite. A 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:12.240 jerk Yeah, the jerk was an audience member. A yak 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:15.160 was a big belly laugh. Yeah, think about the yucks 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:18.240 that came from that. Of course, that makes sense. Yeah, 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:20.160 if you make a funny face as a performer, that's 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:23.680 a skull. A Mountaineer was a brand new comic that 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:26.320 apparently came from the Cat's skill circuit up in the 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:29.320 mountains there and then I thought this was interesting. The 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.600 Boston version was a cleaned up version of the routine. Yeah, 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:38.360 because the sensibilities of Boston nights are famous, famously touchy. 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:40.800 And then you know, there's a whole list of vocabulary here, 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:43.000 but we don't have to go through it all. Yeah. 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:45.040 But I mean, like some of the terms that we 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:49.280 used again top, banana, yucks, jerk. This came from burlesque 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:52.440 The Way to Go Burlesque, So, um, there's like kind 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:55.800 of this, Hey, Dave. Burlesque is enjoying its first wave 0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:59.000 in the United States. Um, and then all of a 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:03.520 sudden they have big competition. It's called movies and then 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:09.560 worse than movies, talkies. Yeah, and burlesque is like, uh, 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:14.280 what can we do that the movies can't do to 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:18.879 get people in to take off even more clothing exactly. Yeah, 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:21.719 and that actually did it, because not only did that 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:25.679 save burlesque and make it competitive against the movies, it 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:30.320 actually kicked off the heyday. Once the the burlesque performers 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:33.520 uh started taking off their clothes and doing strip teases, 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:39.280 like real strip teases. That's when burlesque saw its golden era. Yeah. 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:43.080 But again, these are nineteen twenties strip teases. So it's 0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:48.119 not like going to one of those filthy places these days, uh, 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:52.200 like a strip club. Um, we're talking Gypsy rose Lee 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:56.000 and Sally Ran doing like the fan dance where you 0:22:56.040 --> 0:22:57.840 know they're they're so good with that fan. You can 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:00.159 never quite tell what's going on behind the fan. I know, 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:03.560 have you seen a fan dance? They're like very um 0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:07.840