WEBVTT - Covid Cocktail Could Boost Immunity 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.320 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.680 plus technology, politics, economics, all harnessing the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.160 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.640 analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.239 download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.160 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.880 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:31.920 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Well, among the COVID stories 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:34.760 that are catching our attention, we've got one about how 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:37.199 pharmaceutical exacts are mixing up their own vaccines to get 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:39.879 at a higher immunity. So maybe think about a drug cocktail. 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.800 And then Tim, of course does Maderna headlines. Yeah, the Maderna. 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:44.760 The company is saying that it doesn't see signs that 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:49.400 it's shot causes heart issue. The issue myocarditis, as well 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:52.360 as a condition called Perry card diitis. The company saying 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.440 it has not established a causual association with its vaccine. Well, 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:57.760 let's get right into it with Dr Ian LUs Bader, 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:00.480 clinical Professor of Medicine at n y U Lane Goinges 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:03.120 Medical Center, joining us this afternoon on the phone from 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:05.160 Long Island. Dr les Beda, how are you on this 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:08.560 Friday afternoon? Doing very well? Guys? Hope all is well 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:11.760 with you. Definitely some interesting stories that doesn't seem to 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:14.560 end when it comes to COVID and the vaccines. Yeah, 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:15.920 it does, and well let's get right into it and 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:19.000 talk about the m R and A vaccines Because the 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:21.760 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention it's identified a total 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:24.399 of two hundred and sixteen cases of heart inflammation after 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:25.959 the first dose of an m R and A shot 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.319 and another five hundred and seventy three cases after the 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:30.520 second dose. At the same time, Moderna coming out and 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:33.440 saying that it sees no sign that the shot causes 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:36.480 heart issues. How are you reading into this, Well, there's 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:40.759 definitely an increased incidents, right. We certainly know that myocarditis, 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:44.679 which is inflammation of the heart muscle and perrycarditis, which 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:47.600 is the sack that the heart sits in, can occur. 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:50.520 That can occur at any age. We see viral inflammation 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.440 of the heart we see UH, usually viral or other 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:58.520 infections that caused perrycarditis, but the number of cases, especially 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:02.920 in young men, those under thirty, is definitely higher than 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:07.440 one would statistically think of in that population. So there's 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:12.480 definitely an increased incidence UM, and it seems to be 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.480 associated with the mrn A vaccines. What we don't know 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:18.880 is are they causing it or how they're causing it. UH. 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:21.320 The C d C I think is definitely looking into that. 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:25.280 And this raises the question of as we're getting more data, 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:29.320 should we be kind of targeting vaccines for certain age groups. 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:31.800 Maybe young men should be thinking more about the J 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:35.400 and J vaccine, the single dose, as opposed to young 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:39.040 women where we were seeing some perhaps increased clots with 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.840 astra zeneca, where this tts syndrome with J and J. 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:45.760 You know, perhaps young women should be thinking more of 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:47.560 the m R and A. We're really just sort of 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.600 getting that data and at some point down the line 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:54.160 of hopefully soon we may be able to say, if 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.160 you're in this group, this would give you the most 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.600 benefit with the least risk. UH. Clearly, these are not 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:04.280 a huge number of cases, but obviously higher than we 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:07.000 would expect and you always try and reduce a risk 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:10.079 whenever you're giving any sort of treatment or prevention. So 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:12.240 Dr LUs better are we getting to the point. It 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:16.160 was funny. I was having conversation a little parenthetical here earlier, 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:18.240 and someone went went to get the vaccine. They're like, well, 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:19.720 wait a minute, because they were going to be given 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:21.000 the fires of they can I actually have the J 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:23.600 and J and they were able to kind of pick 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:26.560 the vaccine they wanted. On the flip side, are doctors 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:28.799 getting to appoint the medical community saying, you know what, 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.640 I've looked at your medical history, I've looked at your age, 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:33.440 I've looked at some other factors. I think you should 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:37.000 get this vaccine. There are some patients who say what 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:41.400 should I get, and most don't really check in before 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:45.240 they get it. And many centers don't have every It's 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:47.840 not like a restaurant where you can say this one 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:49.760 or that one. I mean, at some point we may 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:51.600 get to that, but usually if you go to a 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.880 particular center, whether it's even a local pharmacy, they will 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.160 have a limited number of vaccines, you know, due to 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:00.120 storage and other and other ushers. And really for the 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:05.040 majority of people, they're all very effective, very very few 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:08.400 people actually get COVID. Cleveland clinic study to show that 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:12.120 they looked at fifty you know, patients not only who 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:16.520 have had COVID previously, but those with vaccines. So UM, 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:18.840 for most people it doesn't matter. But if you are 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:23.040 in one of those groups, a young woman or a 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.680 young man, now that this data is coming through, it 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:28.200 may be worth talking with your doctor and saying, hey, 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:30.680 based on the data, is there one that may be 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.080 better for me. Well, let's talk a little bit more 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:37.320 about that Cleveland clinic study finding. Um, the idea is 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:41.640 that there's not necessarily proof that we should be vaccinating 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:44.920 those who have had COVID nineteen take us into it, 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:49.280 exactly right. So that's study and it's from a very 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:53.120 reputable institution that Cleveland Clinics looked at about fifty two 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:58.760 employees and a certain percent had had COVID previously, and 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.120 and they looked at those who were vaccinated and those 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:04.600 who were not vaccinated, and it turned out that really 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:09.159 is zero um people who had had the COVID UH 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:13.800 covid infection, the stars COVID to infection and had a 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:17.520 proof of having that they did not get a second infection, 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:20.560 so you can't get better than zero, you know, out 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:23.839 of fifty two thousands. So that's very reassuring. We have 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:28.440 been pushing even people who have had UM, the COVID infection, 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:31.760 to say, hey, you take this. Uh, that's exactly why 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:33.719 I was so skeptical when I saw this, and they're 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:35.400 so surprised when I saw this, because it flies in 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.520 the face of what we've heard from the CDC. Well, 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.080 it's an evolving picture, let's put it that way. I 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:43.360 think for people who have had it, they should be 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:46.720 very reassured. There's some you know debate, you know, in 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:50.000 terms of vaccine availability. Should we be using all these 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:53.120 vaccines when other countries may need them? But I think 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.680 if you've had COVID, your risk of getting it again 0:05:56.920 --> 0:06:00.440 is very low. We certainly know the vaccines really boost 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:05.040 your antibody response. And for new variants like delta that's uh, 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:07.640 you know from India, that could be a problem. It 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.479 may be that a vaccine would be very helpful for that. 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:13.280 I would say, you know, right now, if you've had 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:17.640 covid um there's no panic to get a booster shot, 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:21.520 although it probably will provide some benefit. Alright, good stuff Hey, 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:23.760 we're going to continue this conversation with Dr Ian lust 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:26.240 bedaor clinical professor of Medicine, n y U Land, going 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:28.520 with us on the phone in Long Island. Tim listen, 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:31.880 it's as he said, you know, this is evolving, we're 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:34.040 finding our way through this. Yeah, I've said it before, 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:37.960 I'll say it again. It's it's like a science experiment, 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:40.479 a study playing out in real time. And in a sense, 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:43.080 all medicine is like that. I've learned, right, looking what 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:46.680 happened with Alzheimer's in Biogen this week, right exactly, Let's 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:49.080 get back right to it with Dr Ian lust Beder, 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:52.080 clinical Professor of Medicine, n y U Langings Medical Center. 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:54.840 He joins us on the phone from Long Island. Dr 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:57.960 LUs Beder. A story by our own Todd Gillespie that 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:02.120 came out earlier today, all about how pharmaceutical executives are 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:05.640 kind of the way I thought of it was doing 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:10.440 experiments on themselves in in trying to determine whether or 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:13.720 not they can get a higher immunity from a mix 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:18.160 of their own COVID shots, different vaccines. And it's it's 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.080 actually something that it's new to me, but it's not 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:23.320 new to doctors and people who study this stuff. It's 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:27.360 called heterologious prime boosting. What exactly is it and what 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:30.320 are these executives doing and how could it affect the 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.240 way that we receive vaccines in the future. So we've 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:36.440 known for a long time that the heterologous prime boosting, 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:40.640 basically giving one vaccine then followed by a different vaccine, 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:44.080 really gives you a more robust response. All of the 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:48.320 original studies just looked at individual companies doing their own testing. 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:52.640 So obviously you know UH Feiser was three weeks apart, 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:56.840 Madurna four weeks apart, J and J just the single vaccine, 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:59.640 although there were some studies that show to follow up, 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.520 but it turns out if you combine these, for example, 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:05.000 there are a number of studies that show UH not 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.239 in UH in a limited number of patients, hundreds of patients. 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:10.679 The studies have been done, but they show, for example, 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:13.280 like the astro Zenco which is an ad no virus 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:15.680 fact or similar to J and J, if you give 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:18.840 that followed by either the Maderna m RNA or the 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:22.760 fiser U m RNA vaccine, they had up this seven 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:27.240 times higher antibodies and longer lasting and the hope. Yeah, 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:30.520 it's it's quite and that that may be the way 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:34.280 of the future. That may be UM the standard approach. 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:37.640 And certainly patients who say, gosh, I missed my follow 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:40.079 up dose. I was away, I couldn't get it. Can 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:42.559 I get a different vaccine? I think the answer is yes, 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:45.240 you can, And that may be a good idea actually, 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:48.640 But the concern or the reason you may want these 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:52.080 higher antibody levels is exactly for the delta you know, 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:57.040 Indian variant, which is more infectious, more deadly. Um, it 0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:00.559 continues to multiply and mutate. I'll be see, You've got 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:04.240 a billion people as your substrate of viral replications. So 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.199 the thinking is that if we combine these will get 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:11.600 a more robust response that hopefully would defend the body 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.800 better against any variants that come along. That's not proven, 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.640 but that's the thinking. Yeah, and we continue to find 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:19.920 out more and more. Hey, listen, before we go, we 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:21.400 have a couple of minutes left, and we've got to 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:25.120 ask you about biogen UH and it's Alzheimer's drug. The 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.520 story one of the stories today. A prominent Harvard Medical 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:32.680 UH School professor has resigned from an FDA advisory panel 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.000 and protest over the agency's decision to improve to approve 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:39.559 Biogen's Alzheimer's drug, And so he announced his departure. He 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:41.360 put out a letter, He's the third committee member to 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.200 quit in the wake of this highly controversial approval and 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:47.680 forgive me, this happened yesterday. How do you feel about 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:50.640 this or what are you hearing? Well? I think, um, 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:55.240 they're trying to be ethical about this. And Alzheimer's is 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:57.640 a very tough disease. It's very tough to really prove 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:02.160 beneffort from these drugs. That this particular drug was approved 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:05.520 by the FDA because it lowered the levels of amyloid, 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:09.080 which is a protein in the brain. Alzheimer's is complicated. 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:12.720 There are many biochemical and physical changes in the brain. 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:18.320 Amyloid deposits, neurofibrillary tangles, and so the drug did reduce amyloid, 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:22.880 but it's very hard to really prove benefit because Alzheimer's 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:26.800 is a progressive disease typically, so does it slow the progression, 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.480 does it stop the progression? Does it reverse the dementia? 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:32.800 You know, it's how do you measure it? And more importantly, 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.920 so what if you lower amyloid, are you really clinically 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.199 affecting the outcome of the patient. You know, you may 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:42.040 be lowering this protein which is associated. And I think 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:46.320 these three professors resigned because I think they felt unconvinced 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.000 that we're raising hopes of patients that this drug, very 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:52.720 expensive drug, is going to help them when the actual 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:56.120 clinical outcome is not well proven. I think that was 0:10:56.160 --> 0:11:00.000 their key complainte ethical dilemma, Yeah, thirty seconds, Dr Lesi, 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.000 or does it set a dangerous precedent for the FDA 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:05.000 and future approvals. I think you have to listen to 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:08.439 your advisory committees and and see if you there are 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:10.520 points are valid and I think in this case it 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:13.679 probably was valid um and they were going on kind 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:16.720 of a different metric, maybe a useful metric that I 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:20.040 think that committee wanted more data. And anybody who's had 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:24.800 a family member who's had Alzheimer's or even some other illness, UM, 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:26.560 if you can get a couple of months, a couple 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:31.120 of weeks, a couple of years out of um A treatment, 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:33.760 it means an awful lot. And that's where it's really 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:36.319 great and fuzzy. Tim. I think that's perhaps why despite 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.200 the fact that it's fifty six dollars for treatment plus 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:43.559 plus more. UM investor saw it as something that is tenable, 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:45.480 right exactly, And there's a lot of folks out there 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:48.079 with Alzheimer's as well. Of course Dr Ian lost Better 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:50.679 the best clinical professor of medicine. And why you land going? 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:54.439 Joining us on the phone from Long Island. You're listening 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:58.280 to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:03.000 Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio, the Newishuoe Bloomberg business Week, 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:05.120 it's in my hands, it's now a news stands, it's 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:07.680 in Tim's hands, it's online and on the Bloomberg the 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:12.480 domestic cover asked who needs a margarita? Margarita? After this week? 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.600 I think we all do that story and a bunch more, 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:19.120 including the international cover China Wolves and the New Age vs. G. 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:21.760 Let's open up the issue with Bloomberg Business Week editor 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:24.679 Joe Weber on the access line in Brooklyn. But before 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:30.840 we do that, Joel, congratulations, Oh thank you. UM and UH, 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:35.440 you're referencing a national magazine award that Bloomberg Business Week 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:39.240 one last night for UH, a single topic issue that 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:43.520 we did last spring called the Last Year. UM which 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:45.440 if you look at the cover of it, we we 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:49.959 used that cover line on the issue that shipped March eleventh, UM, 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:54.120 which was as the world was sort of felt like 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:56.360 it was falling apart, at least here in New York 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.360 it did. Um. So it was a huge honor, uh 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:03.760 to accept that on behalf of the staff in Bloomberg. Um, 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:07.400 and it was I'm just going to say, yeah, it 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.560 definitely feels that way. You know, I think I've fretted 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:12.400 for most of the year about was it going to 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:14.120 be less than a year because that would look bad? 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:15.360 Is it going to be more than a year? But 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:17.839 it turns out, Um, it was a bold call and 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:19.800 and and the right one. And you know, I think 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:21.680 the thing that these are kind of the oscars of 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.560 the magazine world. And um, it means that you know, 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:28.960 our peers basically said, um, this was you at your best, 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.880 which we felt as well. So again quite an honor. Yeah, 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:33.760 and Enjoel, one more question on that, because this is 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:35.959 such a big deal and and as Carol imagined it was, 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:37.840 it was really impression of you and your team. And 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:41.280 I'm I'm wondering what it was that that made you realize, Look, 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:44.199 fifteen months ago at this point that would indeed be 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:48.080 a last year. Well, I was in a meeting and 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:54.120 being in that meeting and realizing how, um, how so 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:58.600 many people were confused and um uh made me realize 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.880 that that same conversation aation was happening in boardrooms across 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.800 the country, in the world, frankly, um and as people 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:08.000 were just doing complete write offs for what their projections 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:11.840 would look like, that would be a pretty devastating gear 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.160 for the economy. And so that's that was the kernel 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:18.360 of the idea. Um. And I remember walking out of 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:22.000 that meeting and not sure if I wanted to do 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.720 a cover to cover issue. And I walked out of 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:26.840 that meeting thinking, not only are we doing a cover 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:28.920 to cover issue, but we're calling it the last year. Well, 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:31.840 it's kind of a perfect segue into this week's edition, 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:35.480 which I think in a lot of ways symbolizes the 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.600 reopening of New York City. The cover here in the 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.760 in the it's exactly right. So the cover story is 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:46.080 about Jimmy Buffett, who most of us know as a musician, 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.600 and I'm quite fine fond of that music for the record, uh, 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.360 And he actually turns out that he has a business 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:58.120 empire uh that basically has uh been the legacy of 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:02.080 the song Margharitaville. And and not only has it uh 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:07.960 just boomed, it's um expanding. And he's just opening a 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:14.240 New York Times Square extension Margaritaville hotel with restaurants and 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:18.640 bars and everything. Um. And the timing couldn't be better 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.600 because just as New York coming back to life, you've 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:24.360 got a place to go have Margarite, Margarite's and dequeries 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:26.640 in Times Square. We've been planning a road trip class 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:30.000 just like an offsite broadcasting from there. I mean, why not, 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:33.320 right yeah? Yeah, or just a meeting even like I'm 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:35.800 done with the zoom stuff. Let's just go see each 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.080 other face to face. But but it's crazy write a 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:40.640 song he wrote. It's crazy because it's a song he 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:44.960 wrote what a few minutes? Yeah, and it actually you know, 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.400 there's so much business wisdom in this story of like 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:50.320 he realized he had something, but he couldn't do it 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.920 on his own. Uh found somebody who became a great 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:57.120 partner and realized that they could put their brand on 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:59.840 a lot of different things. And I think there's still 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.160 are growing out what they can put it on and 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:05.120 you know, marijuana to dakary machines. They've they've really been 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:07.760 able to do it all. As I say, I don't 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.000 have a great segue to the next story. But we've 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:13.320 talked about this story. Another drink of your that's it. 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:16.200 That's it. Well, maybe the Chinese Wolf Warriors need to 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:19.160 have among we talk about that one. So so Uh, 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:23.800 Peter Martin wrote this story. Uh, he's got a book 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:27.600 coming out, so this is technically an excerpt um and 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:30.760 so so congrats to Pete on it on this book. Uh. 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:35.040 We obviously know that the Wolf Warriors have become um 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:38.600 like a diplomatic strategy of China's and and they're very 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:45.560 aggressive and um in expanding Chinese influence and and showing 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.160 that there's a lot of bark at least um with 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:50.600 where China wants to go and and perhaps some bite 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:55.000 even and as writes, it's it's a it's a bold strategy. 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:59.000 But despite some rhetoric from um the top in Beijing, 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.120 like we we shouldn't expect any of that to back 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:04.240 down anytime soon, Joel. There's also a story in this 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:08.200 week's edition of the magazine Deep Dive into the X 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:11.399 on activists, victory MARKETI coming of age for E S 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:15.080 G Investing, Take us into it. Engine Number One. This 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.840 is a Sagel Kashan story. She worked with Joe Caroll 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:22.280 on about UM. A thing that I don't feel very 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.560 many people saw it coming. I mean I certainly didn't 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:28.200 when when the name Engine number one was first uttered 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:31.440 in the meetings that I was in, it was sort 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.480 of like, who who the heck is that? And it 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:38.040 turns out that not only were they activists investors, but 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:40.879 it kind of shows a new age of activists investors 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:44.120 that there, that they're willing not only to take on companies. 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:46.600 And you know, as we've written in cover stories in 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:50.040 Business Week, Xon ten years ago was on on top 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:52.000 of the world. You know, there was no there was 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:55.240 no more valuable company than Exon. And how the mighty 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:58.959 have fallen. And as they're falling, we're seeing how activists 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:02.320 can come in and attempt to probably work for more change. 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:05.320 So it's it's one to watch UM and and one 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.960 that I think has taken a lot of investors and 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:12.760 boards by surprise. So I think definitely more to come 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:15.800 UM in this in this vein going forward. Yeah, massive 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:18.800 undertaking financially, certainly for Engine number one to take on 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:23.160 X on Hey uh Star. We've been also referencing, um 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:26.800 the fomo economy. When Stanley, Druck and Miller gets fomo, 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:30.560 you gotta sit up and take notice. Yeah, so this 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:32.760 was one that we ended up doing as the international 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:34.719 cover story. I thought it was good enough to be global, 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.120 but that I just had to, you know, give everybody 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:41.560 a margarita. The The idea really came from me from 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:43.840 just being on the playground and suddenly, you know, watching 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:46.879 my my son and having all these people interact that 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:49.919 I interact with telling me about how they've struck it rich. 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:51.600 And I was like, am I the only one who's 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.040 not rich? Right now we're getting rich? Like what am 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:59.000 I doing wrong? And and Leone, Leonel Laurent, who's a 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:02.080 great contribut in Bloomberg Opinion, wrote a story that basically 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:05.199 helps some all that up, whether it's doage coin or 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.639 housing or meme stocks, and you know, we could go 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:10.720 right now we're talking about a m C which was 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:13.359 on fire. You know, all of it just feels like 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:15.760 a boy. I just feel like I've missed out on everything. 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:18.120 And um, if you're if you've ever been taught, like, 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:21.520 you know, sane approaches to investing or index funds. I 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.240 think you probably feel the same way, which is just like, wow, 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.080 what's going on exactly? Yeah, you're not the only one, 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:30.320 jol Hey, just in fifteen seconds that we have take 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:34.200 us down to Florida's Trump Coast with Josh Green. Yeah. 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.080 The Josh Green story is an epic one. It was 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:38.399 just like the moment that we knew mar Lago as 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:40.359 a destination. We said, Josh, can you go down there 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:43.960 and just like give us a cultural uh letter from 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.480 from South Florida and he and he did, and I 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:50.200 think he found some really surprising stuff that was shows 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:53.160 how strong Trump's hold on the GPS. All right, everybody, 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:56.119 there's your weekend reading list. Check it out online, on 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:58.960 newsstands and on the Bloomberg. Joe Weber, thank you so much. 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:03.960 Congratulations again, it's a great That issue was incredible. I'm 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:10.840 road a journal now, but you let me drive. Oh no, 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:15.120 no, no no, no, drive home, honey, please, I'll do the riding. 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:21.560 Drivel lets me. I want to drive, just drive, baby, 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:35.720 the questions trying. This is the drive to the Globe community. Thanks, 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:39.840 We'll drying us down on Bloomberg Radio. What two weeks 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.239 it has been? This past week. I don't even know 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.360 what's compared to It's like every week feels like it's 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:47.040 kind of wild, but hey, that's why we love what 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:48.280 we do. And a had a day and a half 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:50.480 off and it's still feel like two weeks. Let's get 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:52.880 to a time for the drive to the clothes and back. 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:56.360 With us is David Deets. He's managing principal, senior portfolio 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:59.040 strategors are at Peapack Private Wealth Management, nine point four 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:02.359 billion in assets under management. David with us once again 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:04.879 on the phone from Summit, New Jersey. David, how do 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:08.960 you make sense of a week like this past week? Well, 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:12.639 I mean, the key metric this week has been this 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:16.840 higher than expected inflation number, the highest in thirteen years. 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:20.679 Yet you would think that we'd see a big bond tantrum, 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:24.080 yields racing north, but we're not seeing that at all. 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:28.520 We're down by about basis points since March, and I 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:31.440 think Wall Street discretion their heads trying to make sense 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:34.920 of this higher than expect inflation, yet no reaction to 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:38.000 bond market. Well wait a minute, wait a minute, we're 0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:40.520 all smart here, and we know we went through a pandemic, 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:43.560 and we know that everything fell off a cliff and 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:47.760