Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to season three, twenty eight,
Speaker 1: Episode two of dirt Ally's I Guys Say production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: This is a podcast where we take a deep dive
Speaker 1: into America's shared consciousness. And it is Tuesday, March fifth,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we found Hey man, it's a scumbag buffet
Speaker 2: because it's two consumable items have their national day, National
Speaker 2: cheese doodle Day and National absinthe Day. So why why
Speaker 2: don't you bust out the sugar cubes and lighter gets
Speaker 2: your absent on, and then you know, top it off
Speaker 2: with some nice cheese dudles just to give yourself, you know, a.
Speaker 1: Fully balanced meal.
Speaker 3: Today is the Yeah, it's.
Speaker 2: Like a it's like a like a Cheetoh, it's like
Speaker 2: a fuff cheeto.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like so the way you get cheese doodles.
Speaker 1: You ever see one of those fireworks that like turns
Speaker 1: into like a tub, like, Yeah, so that's how those
Speaker 1: are created. They do that and then powder them in cheese.
Speaker 3: Who says America doesn't build anything anymore?
Speaker 1: We're the great, the international greats. I feel like cheese
Speaker 1: doodles have to be wildly flammable. Right, yeah, why not, suspect.
Speaker 2: Note, I don't know everything in America's seems like it's
Speaker 2: like eighty percent petroleum for some reason.
Speaker 1: The corn, it's just corn. Man, well, which corn is ethanol? Yeah? Okay, bike?
Speaker 3: So I googled cheese doodles to find out what they were,
Speaker 3: and someone had posted in our slash chips all caps wise,
Speaker 3: why did you change the cheese doodles recipe?
Speaker 1: All caps?
Speaker 3: Looks like six or seven question mark and exclamation marks
Speaker 3: all caps. This is actually a very big thread of
Speaker 3: people just whose lives have been ruined by.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the rocket economy reaches offline and into your cheese
Speaker 1: doodle bag as we're going to get to Florida. But yeah,
Speaker 1: before you get into it, my name is Jack O'Brien aga.
Speaker 1: When I get to the party and I sit in
Speaker 1: a comfortable chair, then I unsit my pants and up
Speaker 1: boyd bringo stare till we get to the climax and
Speaker 1: we're coming again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you want to
Speaker 1: sit in a circle? Do you want to scream Winston
Speaker 1: Churchill circle jerky circle jerkle circle jerk That is courtesy
Speaker 1: oh Cleo universe. Shout out to you and shout out
Speaker 1: to the Beatles.
Speaker 3: Song ends with him saying, uncle blisters on my fingers.
Speaker 1: I know from jerking off to front of beating.
Speaker 3: Off in front John let that's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is of course a reference to the fact
Speaker 1: that the Beatles did jack off in front of each other.
Speaker 1: And we know that, and I don't feel comfortable knowing
Speaker 1: it without you knowing it. So there you go. I'm
Speaker 1: thrilled to be joined as always, I my co host,
Speaker 1: mister Miles Gras. It's Miles Gray.
Speaker 4: Akaa boo in boo out, boo in boo out. Blue
Speaker 4: in I'm a monster ahead tastes better than the rest
Speaker 4: blue fequal dread monster head. Still a monster head tastes
Speaker 4: better than the rest blue fleecal dread. Yeah, my purpose
Speaker 4: stuit in blue, my poopersun in blue.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the courtesy of Hugo Bask. Obviously that was
Speaker 2: to the Tuna machine head by Bush. And obviously that's
Speaker 2: a reference to my love of blue ice cream. That
Speaker 2: does affect the color of min of your pooh excretions, Yes,
Speaker 2: thank you.
Speaker 1: It's also it's crazy, but schoolboy Q heard about heard
Speaker 1: you say that last week and changed the tent. This
Speaker 1: album to lips, and he was talking about of course
Speaker 1: both lips, the lips going in and your butler lips.
Speaker 1: Exactly gross gross, I think, yeah, sorry about that. Our
Speaker 1: guests love. I love getting like this up top when
Speaker 1: we have an expert guest. Yeah, just be make sure
Speaker 1: they know what they're in for. Just pissed off. I
Speaker 1: wasn't told to prepare a song.
Speaker 2: Oh, next time, next time, many next time.
Speaker 1: We are thrilled to be joined by a tech journalist,
Speaker 1: writer behind the newsletter Where's Your Head At? His new
Speaker 1: podcast with cool Zone Media Better Offline is a must listen. Also,
Speaker 1: how I found out about that New York magazine The
Speaker 1: Cut personal finance expert being scammed to the tune of
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars cash in a shoe box. I think
Speaker 1: how a lot of people found out about it. It's
Speaker 1: exit dry.
Speaker 3: What's exactly where it's from? Yah, dude, Rudy, Rudy, fantastic album.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's Rudy right with the ape like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what great song? Great jacks?
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, all right, Well we'll start on a high note, ed,
Speaker 2: I mean next time. Yeah, we will give you ample
Speaker 2: time to prepare an AKA that either has to do
Speaker 2: with fecal matter or circle jerking with the Beatles or
Speaker 2: something like that, or something.
Speaker 1: Of your own choosing.
Speaker 3: You can start preparing now just saying that thing very
Speaker 3: what can I put the Bush's glycerine?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sometimes they just like, doesn't that song say got
Speaker 1: a machine Head? Yeah, He's just like it's a cool title,
Speaker 1: and I'm just gonna be like, got a machine It
Speaker 1: doesn't really the the rest green to they're red right,
Speaker 1: green to red.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not exactly Shakespeare.
Speaker 1: No, not quite. They would like come up with a
Speaker 1: cool word and then just be like I've got one
Speaker 1: of those.
Speaker 3: They're not as good as the Hives though. The Hives
Speaker 3: are just complete nonsense that. My favorite better is Joko
Speaker 3: Got a Smoke b Gon a Gong Wow album. Recently
Speaker 3: it was like this is awful lyrically this, I'm like,
Speaker 3: I feel I can get to a concussion listening to it.
Speaker 3: We just want to get listening to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what happens, is I feel like with the
Speaker 1: Bush Guy it is a little bit. Yeah, Gavin Rossdale
Speaker 1: is a little bit of the bubble, like the thirty
Speaker 1: Rock episode where John Hamm is a doctor who's just
Speaker 1: so good looking that. People are just like, damn, man,
Speaker 1: you are the best doctor ever. And he like doesn't
Speaker 1: know what he doesn't know ship He's like, hey, here
Speaker 1: try my special recipe orange chicken, and it's just chicken
Speaker 1: cooked and orange gatorade. Like I feel like Gavin Rossdale
Speaker 1: is just so stunningly you think, Oh yeah, I think.
Speaker 3: He's just a good looking guy.
Speaker 1: Gavin Rossdale wasn't he.
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean people were definitely over him in
Speaker 2: the US, in the US and when first hit, when
Speaker 2: first came out, for sure, I mean he looks.
Speaker 3: Like a slightly upgraded Jeremy Clarkson. Come on, wow, I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 1: I think I get. I gave him a lot of
Speaker 1: credit once he got with Gwen Stefani.
Speaker 3: And he went with Oh so he is the reason
Speaker 3: why they haven't made a good album since Return of Saturn.
Speaker 2: That's right, yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1: Anyways, this is an album talk yeah, no, Ed, how
Speaker 1: are you doing? Where are you coming to us? From?
Speaker 3: Las Vegas, Nevada?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada.
Speaker 1: How long you've lived in Vegas?
Speaker 3: Three years?
Speaker 1: Okay? Where'd you live before that? California? Was in Oakland? Oh?
Speaker 2: Okay, Wow you went from the East Bay. Wow you
Speaker 2: really followed the Raiders. Oh yeah, well I didn't do
Speaker 2: it for that reason, you know. Would you look at
Speaker 2: the product on the field. I love it here though.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You like to go visit the Immortal Flame of Al
Speaker 2: Davis and right in front.
Speaker 1: Of it the ragious Will to Win. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3: When you go there and do the tour, they all
Speaker 3: say that stuff to you. It's Baganda. It's just like,
Speaker 3: you can't be you can't be saying that shit anymore.
Speaker 3: When Maurice Jones Drew was like an exciting guy on
Speaker 3: your team, it means things have been bad for a while.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, man, j.
Speaker 1: What is it like living in Vegas? Are you hitting
Speaker 1: any of the shows? Is that what I imagined to be? Just,
Speaker 1: you know, rat pack shit every night?
Speaker 3: You and yeah plenty.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 3: So I'm a huge homebody. I don't like going out,
Speaker 3: so I am at home most of the time. But
Speaker 3: when I do go out, I like to be very precise.
Speaker 3: I don't like to go out for an evening. I
Speaker 3: want to go out, have dinner, have drinks, come home.
Speaker 3: Vegas is so convenient. You can get pretty much anywhere
Speaker 3: here in twenty minutes. This is great if you're I
Speaker 3: guess I'm addicted to staying at home and drinking diet cokes,
Speaker 3: which is pretty easy to manage. But if you have
Speaker 3: another addiction, Vegas will find a way to bring it
Speaker 3: to you.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, or bring you to it. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And so this place drives people insane, but was one
Speaker 3: of the best food cultures I've ever seen. Right, it's
Speaker 3: really cool. If you are in control of yourself, it's
Speaker 3: amazing you to death.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the economy is like based on so like people
Speaker 1: who are in control of themselves get to like have
Speaker 1: better times than they would otherwise, because yes, the economy
Speaker 1: is fueled by all these people with very difficult problems.
Speaker 3: But also it's become a lot more respectable, Like it's
Speaker 3: a lot more like going out to nice restaurants and
Speaker 3: shows and music now it used to be when it
Speaker 3: was going out and making a mistake or five Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: Now it's less that it's the strip's much nicer. Freemont
Speaker 3: Streets horrible though, people need to stop saying, God, it's
Speaker 3: horrible that it's also really expensive now, yeah, very strange place.
Speaker 1: So it was everywhere it turns out, Yeah, but every Yeah,
Speaker 1: last time I was in Vegas, I had the thought
Speaker 1: that this would be a good place to take my kids.
Speaker 1: So yeah, which the thought I had.
Speaker 2: At the Luxor. And you're like, oh, yeah, you go
Speaker 2: see bodies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly, this sharks like there's a whole thing
Speaker 1: that's just there's a whole like thread of culture and
Speaker 1: content that is like just all woven throughout the strip
Speaker 1: that is like aimed at five to twelve year old boys.
Speaker 1: There's Times and Michael Jackson, which they're really into as well.
Speaker 3: I'll be I don't want to put him in the
Speaker 3: sentences as boys, That's true.
Speaker 2: There's I remember the time when my mom would go
Speaker 2: with her friends, just like they would go gamble. She
Speaker 2: would give me twenty dollars or something and be like,
Speaker 2: I'll be back in a few hours. Yeah, And I
Speaker 2: was like, Yeah, I can make this work and I
Speaker 2: combat or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, all right, Ed, we're gonna get into the
Speaker 1: rot economy and just that is Yeah, various things that
Speaker 1: I've learned from reading you and listening to your podcast.
Speaker 1: But before we do that, we like to get to
Speaker 1: know you a little bit better by asking you, either,
Speaker 1: what is something from your search history that's revealing about
Speaker 1: who you are, or what is something that you've recently
Speaker 1: screencapped that is revealing about who you are?
Speaker 3: So my thing is if you go to my Google
Speaker 3: search history, it's like Queens of the stone Age Live
Speaker 3: four k and then a series of Boolean strings to
Speaker 3: see if any new bootleg has risen to the top.
Speaker 3: Because I'm a huge Queen's of the stone Age van
Speaker 3: seen sixteen times. I love this band. I listened to
Speaker 3: them all the time. And I just trolled YouTube because
Speaker 3: it used to be back in the day, back in
Speaker 3: the day, and I used to find the stuffs going internet.
Speaker 3: Get people, email them, I have an FTP thing. You
Speaker 3: have all this bad No, it's just all on YouTube now, right,
Speaker 3: So like that is a large part of my googling
Speaker 3: and that and like someone slash Earnings, like I'm usually
Speaker 3: looking at like random tech earnings, just like reading Dross
Speaker 3: and then sitting there like banging my head against the desk,
Speaker 3: being like, how can this company exist? This is a
Speaker 3: bad company, right, torturing myself every day?
Speaker 1: Do you question from ed is it? How do you exist?
Speaker 2: You're like Josh Home, Josh Home earning.
Speaker 1: Hey, I just got a spam phone call by the way.
Speaker 1: Nice cool, a little preview of what we're talking about. Yeah, phones,
Speaker 1: don't worry anymore. What is something that you think is underrated? Underrated?
Speaker 3: Is Vegas is dining scene.
Speaker 1: I've lived in.
Speaker 3: New York, lived in San Francisco, lived in London obviously,
Speaker 3: and I'm used to so well London. I wouldn't say
Speaker 3: it's great dining culture, but I've been around great food cities,
Speaker 3: and I think Vegas is one of the best in
Speaker 3: the world.
Speaker 2: What are you ly is what do you chalk that
Speaker 2: up to in the sense of like go to any
Speaker 2: place there and it's gonna be good, or that there's
Speaker 2: a high concentration of good.
Speaker 3: The amount of the amount of B plus restaurants here
Speaker 3: is much larger than anywhere else. Yeah, so genuinely pretty
Speaker 3: affordable as well, and there are some really really really
Speaker 3: nice high end ones. Bizarre Me is one of the
Speaker 3: best restaurants in the world. And also every Vegas restaurant
Speaker 3: has a of like the service is always a bit
Speaker 3: of extra fun, right, you get a lot out of it,
Speaker 3: like that, there's a there's usually a little bit of
Speaker 3: a show, not like something stupid, but they're super charming,
Speaker 3: they remember everything that the service culture. It's actually a
Speaker 3: surprisingly working class c very strong unions here, which is awesome,
Speaker 3: and the service like love their jobs in most even
Speaker 3: in cheapest places, Like it seems like a pretty great
Speaker 3: city for food, and yet people come here and they're like, oh,
Speaker 3: it's just it's just all chains, and yeah there are
Speaker 3: chains here. There's every goddamn chain, it feels like. But
Speaker 3: like the actual food is great and you can find
Speaker 3: something pretty good even on really really crowded days.
Speaker 2: Like so is this strictly to the strip or are
Speaker 2: we talking about this is everywhere?
Speaker 1: So like what's your favorite because like if a theme
Speaker 1: restaurant got turned into a city, that's Las Vegas. Yeah right,
Speaker 1: there's a city sized theme restaurant. It's just cultural cultural.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's right. Wait, so what's your favorite off strip restaurant?
Speaker 2: Just so like you know, we under like just to
Speaker 2: give me an idea of because I think we all
Speaker 2: when people go they are always looking like, well, what's
Speaker 2: on the strip, But there's all like I've had great
Speaker 2: Thai food. I think that's just on the on the
Speaker 2: just off the strip.
Speaker 3: So this is a bar rather than a restaurant, but
Speaker 3: the wine patio library, there's the wine it's may just
Speaker 3: be called like the wine patio. Now it's in like
Speaker 3: a strip mall. It's my mate it used to be
Speaker 3: a smelia In took me there and it's it's always quiet,
Speaker 3: even when there's lots of people in there. Just the
Speaker 3: vibe is wonderful in there and chill and technically it's
Speaker 3: not quite off strip but cassa player in the encourse.
Speaker 3: Pretty good for Mexican food, okay. My mate used to
Speaker 3: do the mezcal stuff there and the mescal is fantastic,
Speaker 3: Like it's just there. There are lots of fun places
Speaker 3: to go. Jira was it? No jing in Summolin it's
Speaker 3: a pretty good sushi, okay, but there are lots of
Speaker 3: like fun places to go and find and Summalin is
Speaker 3: it very much a master playing community.
Speaker 1: It's beautiful.
Speaker 3: It's more like Santa Monica than it is Vegas.
Speaker 1: What as somebody from outside the US, like, what was
Speaker 1: your perspective on Vegas before you moved there? And because
Speaker 1: it feels like I sometimes say what I think, I
Speaker 1: think one of the things that will be in museums
Speaker 1: about our specific time in history is the Cheesecake Factory
Speaker 1: menu because it's just it's maximalist appropriation, which is kind
Speaker 1: of the main thing that America does. And I feel like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like you said that, that is what Las Vegas is,
Speaker 1: but it.
Speaker 3: Does things well like yeah, the qualities pret like Yardbird
Speaker 3: inside the Venetian is one of my favorite restaurants anywhere.
Speaker 3: It's a chain there in like La and Austin. I
Speaker 3: love that place. There's just there's tons of and there
Speaker 3: are cheaper places that are great too. The buffet are
Speaker 3: pretty good. And I'd been to Vegas a lot before
Speaker 3: I moved here, like a lot. So I used to
Speaker 3: go with my film is a nuclear health and safety guy.
Speaker 3: You used to go, Yeah, funum, So.
Speaker 1: We used to. He taught me to. He taught me to.
Speaker 3: Play craps as well, which is fun. But I used
Speaker 3: to go and his whole thing was disciplined. So we
Speaker 3: just walk around and find fun when I don't know,
Speaker 3: just the tables are a bit rough and we didn't
Speaker 3: want to go back to them for a bit. And
Speaker 3: thus my whole thing with Vegas has always been exploration
Speaker 3: rather than burning my entire bankroll down. Yeah, And so
Speaker 3: it's just I've always liked it, and the residential places
Speaker 3: are great, Like housing is still decently affordable. I'm sure
Speaker 3: that's going to change eventually, like it is everywherehere else,
Speaker 3: But it's a damn side bet than California was. Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's changing rapidly, very quickly all the time here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, nothing's affordable in California. That's the difference between us
Speaker 1: and everywhere else. Not a single thing. What is something
Speaker 1: you think is over it? In and out, in and out.
Speaker 1: The one affordable thing in California over it. It sucks.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry that burger doesn't taste good.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm British.
Speaker 3: Were used to cramp and it's just like the milkshakes
Speaker 3: are good, but the burgers are just crap. The fries
Speaker 3: are awful. California people always telling me like acting like
Speaker 3: this happens a lot. It's like, Okay, look you said
Speaker 3: this yesterday. Yeah, why did you call me to tell
Speaker 3: me that? But people will say it's like, oh, it's
Speaker 3: so good you got and I've had it in the
Speaker 3: original place. I've had the various franchises or they're not franchises,
Speaker 3: various different satellite ones, and it's just gotten there, it's
Speaker 3: just whatever.
Speaker 2: It's not going to shake shack. Yeah, it's not going
Speaker 2: to cheaper. It's much cheaper than both of those. I know,
Speaker 2: a Burger van in twicken them. That's better than in
Speaker 2: and out, you.
Speaker 3: Know what I mean, anything made in a restaurant or
Speaker 3: a kitchen versus.
Speaker 1: Scraped off the floor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's it's interesting too, because most people
Speaker 2: just say it's fine, rather than you got the point perspective.
Speaker 1: You're like, dude, this ship is gross. It's it.
Speaker 3: Call me twice now, Yeah, I'm cut in tweeting in
Speaker 3: and Out twice. Yeah, and protect it was just I
Speaker 3: was hungry and it was the only thing we could get.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it happens.
Speaker 3: It happens.
Speaker 1: But it's also one of our most popular in and
Speaker 1: outs or one of our most popular over ridges.
Speaker 3: I'd say, yeah, well especially no, not in that sense.
Speaker 2: I think it's like anybody who interacts with it, it's
Speaker 2: it's like it's built up in this mythical way. And
Speaker 2: then it's like the same thing with like Chick fil
Speaker 2: A too, it's like built up in a way if
Speaker 2: you're not around it all the time, and then you're
Speaker 2: like all right, like yeah, fine, but I'm not like
Speaker 2: going to change my middle name to in and out
Speaker 2: like people would have me believe the result would be.
Speaker 1: No. It's mainly the thing that's good about it is
Speaker 1: the price point compared to the quality. Like I think
Speaker 1: the fresh produce on your burger is really the thing
Speaker 1: you're like that is unique about it and the low
Speaker 1: price point. And I mean, my main reason for liking
Speaker 1: it is because of the Bible versus all my cups
Speaker 1: which brought me to Jesus.
Speaker 3: And you know, I thought they were like weird libertarians
Speaker 3: or I'm thinking of someone else.
Speaker 1: Probably, I mean this fact a little Bible verse. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not it's not very specific. They don't have the
Speaker 1: quote on there. They're just directing you if you want
Speaker 1: to check it out his hands.
Speaker 3: Hey, while you're eating Christ, have you tried Jesus?
Speaker 1: Have you? Have you?
Speaker 2: Have you considered the fact that this Jesus thing, he
Speaker 2: loved you so much, he gave his only bigotten son,
Speaker 2: he gets us.
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love getting that commercial during the Souper Bowl Botles.
Speaker 3: I love that there was a commercial because it's like,
Speaker 3: who is the person's like, what the fuck is that?
Speaker 1: Jesus not familiar and don't care to learn more.
Speaker 3: We'll look him up.
Speaker 1: All right, ed, let's take a quick break. When we
Speaker 1: come back, we're going to talk about what you describe
Speaker 1: as the rot economy. Well, we've talked about on our
Speaker 1: show before as like the sense that things that we're
Speaker 1: served by companies are getting like worse, just every everything's
Speaker 1: kind of getting worse. So we'll be right back and
Speaker 1: we're back.
Speaker 2: We're back.
Speaker 1: And the things that we've talked about getting worse on
Speaker 1: here that they are endless examples. But it feels like
Speaker 1: capitalism is kind of broken of late, if you like.
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know when exactly it started, but it
Speaker 1: feels like in the past ten year years it has
Speaker 1: been absolutely palpable that we've broken away from Like company
Speaker 1: creates a good product, You want good product because it's good.
Speaker 1: Therefore company profits and continues making good product. Like has
Speaker 1: that that system has broken? And I don't know you've
Speaker 1: talked about it with regards to Google search. I've read
Speaker 1: about it with dating apps, But like, where do you
Speaker 1: usually start when somebody asks you what is the right economy?
Speaker 1: Where do you usually start?
Speaker 3: I think Google is a great place to start, but
Speaker 3: Instagram is as well. So you go on Instagram these
Speaker 3: days and you think I want to see pictures and
Speaker 3: videos and people I follow. What Instagram wants to show
Speaker 3: you is something else they want to show you. It's
Speaker 3: much worse than Facebook. I'd say, they want to show
Speaker 3: you a video ad or like a piece of sponsored content.
Speaker 3: Facebook does this thing where they only show you like
Speaker 3: an animated gift of the first two seconds so that
Speaker 3: you will engage with it. Right, And this is all
Speaker 3: because Facebook has matter I guess you call them now now,
Speaker 3: I'm never going to do it. It's been like three
Speaker 3: I'm not going to do it in this house.
Speaker 1: We will Twitter in this house, in this house.
Speaker 3: And the reason they're doing that is because these companies
Speaker 3: have effectively turned against their users. Now now their whole
Speaker 3: thing is that they must show growth every quarter, growth growth, growth,
Speaker 3: And the result is Google Search does not show you
Speaker 3: results that you'd like. They show you results that Google
Speaker 3: has regurgitated and messed around so that you'll maybe click
Speaker 3: a sponsored link, or because a company that has done
Speaker 3: something called search engine optimization has found the link that
Speaker 3: they can trick Google into showing you. As a result,
Speaker 3: Google is worse, but Google does not care.
Speaker 1: Gohople doesn't care? Right?
Speaker 3: Fuck? They They still make They make money off the
Speaker 3: ads by showing you them. If you accidentally click one,
Speaker 3: they'll make money off that too. And it's why things
Speaker 3: are getting worse in so many ways. It's why you
Speaker 3: find companies that keep doing things. Another great example from
Speaker 3: Google pushing AI into their Google system, despite the AI
Speaker 3: not being as good as the already existent Google Assistant platform. Now,
Speaker 3: they're doing this because they want to show the street
Speaker 3: that they are in AI, so the street will go, wow,
Speaker 3: I want to buy and hold alphabet stock. Right, you
Speaker 3: may think, now put one. Let's piss off the customers. Yes,
Speaker 3: but that's why Google has something called a monopoly. They
Speaker 3: pay what's over ten billion dollars a year to Apple,
Speaker 3: so that Google is the default search engine.
Speaker 1: I wasn't aware of that.
Speaker 3: So good, so good, It's all so good. And what
Speaker 3: you're going to do?
Speaker 1: Use it bing? Right? Why don't we use bing? Is
Speaker 1: it just because.
Speaker 3: Because it's just as bad, because it's just Microsoft's.
Speaker 2: Well, it's the same deal, and the AI with that too.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: It is a result of the markets disconnecting from good business.
Speaker 3: They don't look at companies and say, is this a
Speaker 3: company that can survive without hiring or firing a bunch
Speaker 3: of people at once. Is this a company that in
Speaker 3: the sustainable form of business, one that will grow steadily
Speaker 3: rather than pop and then potentially drop. No, they just
Speaker 3: like growth growth growth, growth, growth.
Speaker 2: Right, and then eventually it's like make the product worse.
Speaker 3: And then well, the product gets worse than the street
Speaker 3: doesn't care. It's not like they have to put Yeah,
Speaker 3: we completely ruined Google Search in their earnings, and they
Speaker 3: don't care. These people don't care. The people who are
Speaker 3: actually investing at the scale the Google gives a shit
Speaker 3: about don't really care. They care about They don't even
Speaker 3: care about profit. I don't know why you even said
Speaker 3: profit there. They just care about revenue growth, market growth growth.
Speaker 3: It all costs and it's why things are worse. And
Speaker 3: it's why Apple shoved out the Vision Pro half completed,
Speaker 3: because they just needed to show the street that Apple
Speaker 3: is still making new things in the gives you a
Speaker 3: wed damn headache. That's like an unfinished product.
Speaker 1: Yeah, talking about that. So Ed, you know reviews tech
Speaker 1: products and review the Apple Vision Pro and you called
Speaker 1: it the single most interesting and annoying of technology ever made. Yes,
Speaker 1: pretty much. You just like can't type with it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it hasn't on screen well in air, I
Speaker 3: guess keyboard where you have to like poke it, you
Speaker 3: have to poke the bits and it just doesn't work
Speaker 3: very well. You can't really touch it. You can't use
Speaker 3: your little fingers on it like you were type of
Speaker 3: knob keyboard. You have to poke at it like a gorilla.
Speaker 3: It's very weird. And also I tried to use it
Speaker 3: several times on an airplane recently and it just gave
Speaker 3: me a headache. Right, And it's insane by the way
Speaker 3: that this is not a bigger story that Apple's new
Speaker 3: thing just gives people headaches. But you know what, the
Speaker 3: hell who cares? The street loves it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the street not being crench out Boulevard, but
Speaker 2: Wall Street, yes great.
Speaker 3: And the wider markets yeah, right. And it sucks because
Speaker 3: the result of this, the result of markets rewarding companies
Speaker 3: that show revenue growth rather than make good things that
Speaker 3: people like and building companies sustainably, is companies are no
Speaker 3: longer incentivized to innovate. They're not incentivised to make cool
Speaker 3: new things. They're incentivised to find ways to grow their pocketbooks.
Speaker 3: And sometimes it's profit, sometimes it's just revenue.
Speaker 2: Right when did this like inversion happen where we sort
Speaker 2: of left we completely jettisoned ourselves from like, yeah, you
Speaker 2: got to make something novel to earn the money that
Speaker 2: people are going to give you. I mean, because it
Speaker 2: felt like there was a time where it's like like
Speaker 2: every iPhone doesn't feel revolutionary anymore.
Speaker 1: It's just just.
Speaker 2: Something they change one thing that people hated about the
Speaker 2: last one, like dude, get ready for the revolution or whatever.
Speaker 2: But when when did that actually become like really sort
Speaker 2: of maybe not articulated, but really I guess in a
Speaker 2: way really measurable or noticeable.
Speaker 3: So I think it starts since twenty eleven with a
Speaker 3: guy called Marc Andres and one of the principles andresen Horowitz,
Speaker 3: a large venture capitalist firm that is very influential in
Speaker 3: the valley and also one of the early investors in
Speaker 3: Facebook a bunch of other companies.
Speaker 1: He wrote a thing called software is eating the world Now.
Speaker 1: The people that.
Speaker 3: Glanced at it once and said, WHOA, that sounds good
Speaker 3: didn't really read it deeply. What he was saying in
Speaker 3: there was that tech companies should not be valued based
Speaker 3: on their actual financials and what they do and build,
Speaker 3: but based on a vague sense of like innovation and
Speaker 3: what tech can do for society, the promise of tech
Speaker 3: and the theoretical thing. And then around that time as well,
Speaker 3: one of the other guys, Ben Horowitz, put a thing
Speaker 3: out saying, basically put out a blog that said, Yeah,
Speaker 3: maybe we don't need to just have companies that build sustainably.
Speaker 3: What if you just had them grow as fast as
Speaker 3: humanly possible. Imagine what we could sell them for. Very
Speaker 3: out with what they thought. This inspired the venture capital
Speaker 3: community to start investing in companies not just based on
Speaker 3: whether they thought they'd grow sustainably or otherwise, and whether
Speaker 3: they'd fulfill a market thing like a market need, but
Speaker 3: only make them fulfilling market need. Only make them grow
Speaker 3: to get as many people and live basically on a
Speaker 3: form of venture backed welfare. Uber being a great example
Speaker 3: of a company that turned a profit maybe two quarters
Speaker 3: in its existence, and they were propped up by venture dollars.
Speaker 3: They were they used their unfair market share because they
Speaker 3: could just wade in with low prices. Cut cab companies
Speaker 3: out not. The cab companies were great, but that's what
Speaker 3: they used right. And then Uber just grew and grew
Speaker 3: and grew unsustainably, and now they're just cutting fares for
Speaker 3: right for drivers. Now they're screwing the drivers over. The
Speaker 3: experience is worse. It's harder to get an Uber, and
Speaker 3: it's more expensive when you do right, and they still
Speaker 3: deeply unprofitable. Companies like Uber were extremely prevalent in the
Speaker 3: middle of the twenty tens. That was mostly there was
Speaker 3: the Uber for everything thing, but every startup felt like
Speaker 3: they weren't real companies. They were just stuffed full of
Speaker 3: venture capital dollars to eat as much market share as
Speaker 3: they could before they got sold to a public company
Speaker 3: or merged with another one.
Speaker 1: Very rarely, sorry, real quick, I need to take a break.
Speaker 1: My Washio driver is here to pick up your Washyah.
Speaker 3: Was one of them around that.
Speaker 1: For Uber, laundry for pet Goldfish.
Speaker 3: But something happened around the mid twenty tens when I
Speaker 3: think they realized we don't really need to try quite
Speaker 3: as hard and tech just started making promises without delivering them,
Speaker 3: and the streets still loved them. These companies still kept
Speaker 3: getting acquired. These Redictus, and a bunch of consolidation happened
Speaker 3: as well. Qualcomm kind of hoovered up a lot of
Speaker 3: the bluetooth technology, Meta Bore, WhatsApp, they bought Oculus. These
Speaker 3: things happened that didn't seem bad at the time, but
Speaker 3: slowly tech was consolidating everything, and then just tech stopped
Speaker 3: delivering innovation at the pace it did, which isn't really
Speaker 3: its fault. Sometimes innovation slows, but the valuations kept going up.
Speaker 3: They come on up and up and up and up
Speaker 3: and up. Yeah, and then it just became obvious that
Speaker 3: the things that people were valuing these companies but on
Speaker 3: we're not really based on reality. They weren't based on
Speaker 3: them being good. But then the moment they went public,
Speaker 3: something weird happened. They suddenly started falling apart. They weren't
Speaker 3: doing too well, and you'd think at this point you'd
Speaker 3: be like, okay, so maybe this would make the tech
Speaker 3: companies change their businesses to be some kind of profit
Speaker 3: generating entity. Oh no, absolutely not. They just learned how
Speaker 3: to show growth metrics. Why do you think Snap, a
Speaker 3: company that has very rarely made any money at all
Speaker 3: but now makes I forget exactly that I think that
Speaker 3: they are a billion of revenue. But nevertheless, but they don't
Speaker 3: make any profit at all. But because they can always grow, grow, grow,
Speaker 3: and the teens use them. Oh that's a good company.
Speaker 3: Despite the fact that Snapchat is one of the more
Speaker 3: insane apps. You opened it recently, It's like a minefield
Speaker 3: of different buttons and noises. It's like going to the
Speaker 3: fucking circus. It's insane. Every Uber there's like eleven different
Speaker 3: buttons that.
Speaker 1: You can hit. Now trying to perversion of Uber. That
Speaker 1: part of it, right, is to make it unusable so
Speaker 1: that old people don't figure out.
Speaker 3: How to use.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: No, it's to try and sell you as much as possible,
Speaker 3: get as much growth adjacent Metroce's bullshit as possible, and
Speaker 3: then flog it to the markets. And it works. And
Speaker 3: it works so well, even though the product is worse,
Speaker 3: even though customers are less happy, Yeah, because that doesn't
Speaker 3: matter as long as number go up.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, and they yeah, they stop paying attention. So
Speaker 1: to get the growth, usually they have to build something
Speaker 1: that pays attention to the user, like actually fulfills the user,
Speaker 1: you know, interest or something the user wants. But the
Speaker 1: second they get to you know, going public and answering
Speaker 1: to Wall Street. It just becomes completely decoupled, and it
Speaker 1: becomes a thing where they're only paying attention to the
Speaker 1: people who are speaking for investors or writing, you know,
Speaker 1: things for.
Speaker 3: I have one other thing that's very sad. The real
Speaker 3: decoupling was toward the end of the twenty ten, which
Speaker 3: was when venture backstops realized, why don't we just do
Speaker 3: this growth shit early? Why don't we just stop growing
Speaker 3: at all costs as early as possible?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: And that's where we are right now. That's why startup
Speaker 3: investment is around AI. It's like search engine optimization, but
Speaker 3: for venture capital, people are no longer building companies to
Speaker 3: serve a market need. They're building companies that they can
Speaker 3: sell to venture capital who can pump them full of
Speaker 3: money so that they can sell to a bigger company.
Speaker 3: And I realize this is all quite complex, but it
Speaker 3: really comes down to this. People are no longer building companies,
Speaker 3: or at least a large amount of them, aren't building
Speaker 3: companies to sell something to a consumer. They are thinking,
Speaker 3: how can I appear to have the growth metrics that
Speaker 3: will get me enough money so I can grow this
Speaker 3: company into something I can sell right, Yeah, and it
Speaker 3: sounds very cynical, but it's what It's been happening for
Speaker 3: a while. But it's now got to a point where
Speaker 3: the shark, the shark has been jumped far too many times,
Speaker 3: and people are noticing, they're very upset.
Speaker 1: But it's being sold not to people, not to the
Speaker 1: people who it's supposed to be serving, right, it's being
Speaker 1: sold to this third party investor.
Speaker 3: There's enough of a product so that a user isn't
Speaker 3: just literally using nothing, though they did try with crypto,
Speaker 3: by the way, to do it without that right that
Speaker 3: companies had no product at all. It was just yeah,
Speaker 3: look at the AI companies, these generative AI companies, Chat GPT.
Speaker 3: Chat GPT legedly makes over billion dollars of revenue. Don't
Speaker 3: know what profit though they're not making any What does
Speaker 3: chat GPT do? No one could really answer, like, it
Speaker 3: does a bunch of things kind of but why do
Speaker 3: you need it?
Speaker 1: Right? Right? General purposes. It's a general purpose technology, right,
Speaker 1: I need.
Speaker 3: It to eight billion dollars and this thing it generates
Speaker 3: stuff that can be kind of useful, but also it sometimes.
Speaker 5: Just lies, yeah, just making things up because sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
Speaker 5: No hallucinates okay, yes, which I mean it's actually like tripping,
Speaker 5: and that gives it kind of a cool, fun drug
Speaker 5: y vibe.
Speaker 3: Well, I know when they use that tongue because it's
Speaker 3: not technically lying because chat GPT doesn't know anything, right,
Speaker 3: it is it has been trained on data, but each
Speaker 3: time it is generating an answer based on a dita set,
Speaker 3: So it can't lie because it doesn't have a concept
Speaker 3: of truth or information.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, it's just yeah, it just it's figuring it
Speaker 2: out as it goes along.
Speaker 1: All. Yeah, so this whole process, Like I have not
Speaker 1: been on the dating apps, but like reading that. That's
Speaker 1: something that's been coming up more lately. Is that like
Speaker 1: match Group I think is like match dot Com bought
Speaker 1: all the dating apps and they are ultimately you know,
Speaker 1: people who have been on them for years are like,
Speaker 1: they are as bad as they've ever been right now.
Speaker 1: And the companies are incentivized to, you know, basically get
Speaker 1: you to pay for a version of their product that
Speaker 1: costs money, that is a subscription service. So they give
Speaker 1: you a free version that sucks, get you to pay
Speaker 1: for a more expensive version. I guess that's the oldest capitalism.
Speaker 1: But then like, they're also incentivised to keep you single,
Speaker 1: like they you know, if you get married, they lose
Speaker 1: two consumers.
Speaker 3: I'm actually really glad you bought brought up dating apps
Speaker 3: because they are the perfect rock economy company. Yeah, ostensibly
Speaker 3: it makes sense they'd want to keep you on the
Speaker 3: apps as much as possible. That using those apps, their
Speaker 3: goal is to keep you on as long as possible
Speaker 3: as with any app, So really their goal is to
Speaker 3: fulfill the need of making personal connections. So I haven't
Speaker 3: been on them over a year, like thankfully Engaged, Thank Christ.
Speaker 3: It's horrifying out there. So glad. But these apps used
Speaker 3: to be like Okayqubid used to be one where you'd
Speaker 3: send longer messages. Hinch used to be we'd meet kind
Speaker 3: of normal, weird people. Coffee Eats Bagel was just strange,
Speaker 3: but it was better than Plenty of Fish, which was
Speaker 3: a place where you got scammed. But nevertheless, these places
Speaker 3: where they.
Speaker 1: Made it actually is getting scammed from me. Yeah, ooh
Speaker 1: my god, you took so much of my fucking money.
Speaker 3: But by and large, these apps made their money off
Speaker 3: of the premium subscription, which allowed you to do things
Speaker 3: like send mold messages. Which made sense. And that makes
Speaker 3: sense because you get freemium product and then you'd upgrade. However,
Speaker 3: because these are all by a public company that needs
Speaker 3: to show growth, growth, growth of revenue of users, what
Speaker 3: have you, Well, they realized, what if we had a
Speaker 3: bunch of micro transactions. So each of these apps has
Speaker 3: some sort of paid for super like, which means you
Speaker 3: can really show someone you like them, and then you
Speaker 3: can pay a subscription so that you can send more messages,
Speaker 3: do more likes. But all of them have basically copied
Speaker 3: the Tinder model of the swipe bright Swhite Left. So
Speaker 3: you're right, they do want to keep you single because
Speaker 3: the only way out of them is to pay them
Speaker 3: a shit ton of money. They don't hinge at the
Speaker 3: very least. I know that they reserve your best matches
Speaker 3: unless you pay for them, and they're extortion at the experienced,
Speaker 3: like two or three dollars per a rose or something.
Speaker 3: And that was for the like all the like, normal
Speaker 3: people who didn't have AI generated captions were on there. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and it was just so straight Well I guess it
Speaker 3: was an AI back in twenty twenty two. But nevertheless,
Speaker 3: these companies now dating apps are no longer for dating,
Speaker 3: therefore finding ways to convince people to spend as much
Speaker 3: money on them or trap them in an endless thing
Speaker 3: where if you're anything less than Instagram level beautiful, you'll
Speaker 3: have trouble meeting people. And it's so fucked up because
Speaker 3: you'd think that they would, you think that this would
Speaker 3: affect them, but no, they're making more money than ever
Speaker 3: because people have no other way of meeting other people.
Speaker 3: Our society is not great at introducing you to new friends.
Speaker 3: It's harder than ever. An adult friend Finder was not
Speaker 3: the website I thought it would be. But it's horrifying
Speaker 3: because this is every app now. It's the same with Bumble,
Speaker 3: It's same with Hinge, same with Tinder, Tinder as some
Speaker 3: like five hundred dollars version. I don't know they just
Speaker 3: I feel like they make these things up just to
Speaker 3: get headlines. But I think it's all owned by Match, right, yes,
Speaker 3: and it's all owned by like one company, right.
Speaker 1: So you can't get out of there.
Speaker 2: There's there's just like this really interest, there's this disconnect
Speaker 2: right where it's like, as consumers were like, yo, this
Speaker 2: shit sucks, Like what the fuck happened?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: But what are they gonna do, right, But then there's
Speaker 2: like this level of insulation, right for the people that
Speaker 2: are making the apps, and then the venture capital people
Speaker 2: who are like, yo, I can make a ton of
Speaker 2: money on this, and there's like this insulation like really
Speaker 2: from I guess you know, there's like the market, which
Speaker 2: is what they're they're like they have eyes towards that.
Speaker 2: Then there's the people that are using the product they
Speaker 2: could give a fuck about.
Speaker 3: Tinder was one of the last quote unquote good startups.
Speaker 3: I don't think it was because Sean rat is peculiar, fella,
Speaker 3: but that was one made before the shift happened.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: Tinder in its original form was swiping right and left.
Speaker 3: But I don't even think it monetized at first, right.
Speaker 2: But I mean, like you know, like and I've heard
Speaker 2: you talk about this too, is that they're only going
Speaker 2: by what's being encouraged and all. Obviously the investor class
Speaker 2: is saying like, if you make the line go up,
Speaker 2: we don't give a shit what you're doing. Just make
Speaker 2: the fucking line go up.
Speaker 3: Used to go up, money go up.
Speaker 2: Yes, So how is it that you know, like, and
Speaker 2: I think you've pointed, you know, it's sort of like,
Speaker 2: partially it's because obviously investors they're gonna encourage it. And
Speaker 2: also the media is not really really critical of what's
Speaker 2: going on. What's like the consumer piece? Is it just
Speaker 2: to merely say like, well, we're gonna boycott this thing?
Speaker 2: Or what like is or is this completely this sort
Speaker 2: of all of this activity is happening on another plane
Speaker 2: of existence where that everyday consumer is like, dude, I'm
Speaker 2: completely at the fucking will of these greedy.
Speaker 3: Well, what it is is monopolies, right, it's monopolies. And
Speaker 3: the people charged on cass What do you think flying
Speaker 3: sucks so much? Because all of the plane companies, like,
Speaker 3: we can fuck them on a certain level, we could,
Speaker 3: we can all agree that these people are a little
Speaker 3: pig to make these little pigs.
Speaker 1: Pain, What are you gonna do? How are you gonna date? Right?
Speaker 3: How are you gonna date? If you want to use Hinge,
Speaker 3: same deal, coffee, Meeks, Bagel, same deal, Tinder, same deal.
Speaker 3: All these apps copy each other, and all of these
Speaker 3: apps move, they all normalize towards a hole where they
Speaker 3: all kind of look the same but have a slight
Speaker 3: enough difference, and then people will get all of them
Speaker 3: because they have no other bloody choice. Google Search, What
Speaker 3: you're gonna do. You're gonna use dug dug dough. You
Speaker 3: can use bin right, idiot, No way, what you're gonna
Speaker 3: do that. You're gonna use Uber. You can use lyft
Speaker 3: because that's your real only choice.
Speaker 1: That's so grim.
Speaker 3: It gets grimmer, It gets grimmer. Think about your restaurants.
Speaker 3: You know that those door to ash and Uber eats orders,
Speaker 3: most of these people they have to give up, like
Speaker 3: twenty thirty percent the restaurants have to give up to
Speaker 3: the delivery apps. What they're gonna don't have delivery right right?
Speaker 3: And there are companies fighting that, but consumers don't have choices.
Speaker 3: There is not strong anti trust in this country. No, no,
Speaker 3: they stopped Spirit and Jet Blue merging. That was actually good.
Speaker 3: But otherwise, the hell else are you gonna do? You're
Speaker 3: gonna use another one of the dating apps that don't exist.
Speaker 3: You're gonna use another delivery app. You're gonna use a
Speaker 3: delivery app which has less stuff on it? Oh, why
Speaker 3: don't you use Cavea? Oh wait, Caviar was bought by
Speaker 3: door Dash.
Speaker 1: Right, what about post Mates?
Speaker 3: No, that's ubery and the Postmates part is gone it's
Speaker 3: and all of this is making everything worse. Amazon is
Speaker 3: full of nonsense. Now, Amazon is full of all of
Speaker 3: these terrible Chinese knockoffs which had names like Google Spook,
Speaker 3: and then you look and they all have five thousand
Speaker 3: and five star reviews because they've broken the system. Because
Speaker 3: Amazon doesn't really care. Amazon cares. You buy stuff and
Speaker 3: it's cheap enough, and they can do.
Speaker 1: It, turning my couch from Google Spook from Google spook
Speaker 1: me with the lead covering.
Speaker 3: That's the thing. What you're gonna do? Where are you
Speaker 3: gonna find stuff online? Walmart, like I said, Wulmont is
Speaker 3: now using the party sellers.
Speaker 1: Right like it's yeah, it really feels like it's broken out.
Speaker 1: But beyond tech, let's uh, let's take a quick break
Speaker 1: because I want to I just want to talk about
Speaker 1: how it feels like this is part of something bigger
Speaker 1: that's leaked out into basically everything. We'll be right back,
Speaker 1: and we're back. We're back. And you know the thing
Speaker 1: about the companies, the people making the decisions deciding what
Speaker 1: these products actually are and how they interact with the consumers,
Speaker 1: like that being completely insulated from the actual people using
Speaker 1: the products or viewing them as piggies who we don't
Speaker 1: mind if they get sucked out of a out of
Speaker 1: a door that pops off. The bowing jet feels like
Speaker 1: it's of a piece with like you'll read these articles
Speaker 1: about how economists are baffled, and they're like the old
Speaker 1: rules of macroeconomics no longer applied, Like just look at
Speaker 1: the pandemic and the you know, there was supposed to
Speaker 1: be this massive recession because fucking everything shut down, and
Speaker 1: yet we kept these good economic metrics throughout or like
Speaker 1: the you know, the stock market never fully crashed on us,
Speaker 1: and we're we're baffled, and it just feels like the
Speaker 1: whole thing is part of the system where the people
Speaker 1: who are at the very top and who are like
Speaker 1: involved in the stock market are completely insulated from everything
Speaker 1: going on below. And yes, it's all like it's that
Speaker 1: as much as it is like a problem with tech,
Speaker 1: and tech has made it has been like the thing
Speaker 1: that has allowed the disease to spread more quickly. It
Speaker 1: feels like it's good old fashioned just like yeah, like
Speaker 1: monopolies and like all the shit there was a problem
Speaker 1: in the early twentieth century, late nineteenth century. It's just
Speaker 1: like you just have these people who are making all
Speaker 1: the important influential decisions who are one hundred percent just
Speaker 1: decoupled from the people who their decisions affect.
Speaker 3: Yes, and that is the overwhelming problem and a symptom
Speaker 3: of an economy ruled by weak labor standards and we
Speaker 3: anti trust right and the market, you're right, is a problem.
Speaker 3: Outside of tech, Boeing being a great example of a
Speaker 3: company that just wanted basic safety, Tesla another great example.
Speaker 3: They're not they are not a tech company. They are
Speaker 3: a car company. Elon Musky's trying to claim they're an
Speaker 3: AI company because he's just a crook and a lion,
Speaker 3: that's all he's capable of doing.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: Tesla is a great sample as well of just like
Speaker 3: a stalk completely decoupled for it. It's a meme stock
Speaker 3: at this point, but.
Speaker 1: It's such a successful me. I mean, it's a meme
Speaker 1: stock that has made is the richest person in the world, right,
Speaker 1: Like that that was yeah, But can you just talk
Speaker 1: about can you talk about like what how people perceive
Speaker 1: Elon Musk? Like my dad will say to me, like
Speaker 1: Elon Musk is, like, I mean that guy must be
Speaker 1: so smart, right he Like I've even heard this from
Speaker 1: like people who pay attention, like work in finance, and
Speaker 1: are like, I mean the guy disrupted like three major
Speaker 1: markets in the course of like a couple. You know,
Speaker 1: they're the I think the public image of him is
Speaker 1: this like Tony Stark, you know, once a generation genius,
Speaker 1: and like that is how he like he invented Tesla
Speaker 1: in his garage or some shit, Whereas like, you know,
Speaker 1: he how did he actually grow his fortune? What is
Speaker 1: the thing that he's good at? I think you've like
Speaker 1: compared him to the CEO of Google, Like they're good
Speaker 1: at the same thing, which is creating the illusion of growth.
Speaker 3: That Elon knew is a marketer and his heart he
Speaker 3: is an operator and a marketer. He is good at
Speaker 3: mobilizing capital and good at convincing people to put money
Speaker 3: into other things unless it's a consumer product, right. He
Speaker 3: has never done well with any kind of consumer product.
Speaker 3: Car He has done like largely because he knows how
Speaker 3: to hire people, or at least he did before he
Speaker 3: went crazy. He has always been kind of a shithead.
Speaker 3: That's also an important thing to know. He has never
Speaker 3: been a great guy. The myth of Elon Musk being
Speaker 3: the super genius that invented Tesla is also wrong. He
Speaker 3: did not someone I forget who there's a cup front for.
Speaker 3: There's a couple of people who actually designed Tesla's and
Speaker 3: found at the company. Elon came in with money. He
Speaker 3: was just he invested and you know what he invested well,
Speaker 3: and he's been a champion for this, but he's also
Speaker 3: got lax labor standards, horrible racism problem over it. This
Speaker 3: has been what he dogpiled the report called Aaron Bieber
Speaker 3: in like twenty seventeen. I believe he has been this
Speaker 3: guy forever. But what Elon is good at is hype.
Speaker 3: And he realized in like twenty thirteen that the press
Speaker 3: would pretty much print anything he said forever. And hears
Speaker 3: that again and again and again in a way that
Speaker 3: should not be legal, right, Like, I'm actually really like
Speaker 3: that if we had a strong enough sec to actually like,
Speaker 3: surely there is a side where it's just a guy
Speaker 3: being like, yes, so we put the first neuralink chip
Speaker 3: inside a person, they can now see the future, And
Speaker 3: it was like, yeah, let me just put down to
Speaker 3: the NBC dot com that sounds.
Speaker 1: True to me.
Speaker 3: This guy is a liar, But people are printed his
Speaker 3: shit forever. He promised Autopilot like three years before it
Speaker 3: even got close to existing. He has made up stuff
Speaker 3: about Tesla for over a decade. He is just a liar,
Speaker 3: but he's realized that this is how shit works, that
Speaker 3: people are just like people will just ball for this ship,
Speaker 3: and people will why his lies. He hasn't really corrected
Speaker 3: the record that he isn't the inventor of Tesla, despite
Speaker 3: the fact that he didn't invent Tesla. He didn't invent
Speaker 3: any of the SpaceX stuff, right, he didn't invent the
Speaker 3: Starling thing. He didn't invent any of this stuff. He's
Speaker 3: just the hype man and that was better before he
Speaker 3: was Like what if I wanted to just posted something
Speaker 3: Hitler adjacent on Twitter, that'd be great.
Speaker 1: Like he's just I.
Speaker 3: Actually genuinely think as well. People turning against the tech industry,
Speaker 3: people being anger at tech, have done so because they've
Speaker 3: kind of seen what he is, what Elon is, the
Speaker 3: kind of person he really really is, and how little
Speaker 3: value he actually has, and also they've seen how poorly
Speaker 3: he's run Twitter, right, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, is there like you know, like with all this,
Speaker 2: like we all know basically there's just it's all this
Speaker 2: illusory shit. It's just to give the like the feeling
Speaker 2: that there's growth, but not offering a product that actually
Speaker 2: drives it and the and people are investing more and
Speaker 2: more but into something that like doesn't exist. What does
Speaker 2: it look like when it, like the market corrects or
Speaker 2: the bubble pops or will it or they're so deep
Speaker 2: in it, like, because I'm trying to like, what does
Speaker 2: that reckoning look like for people like Elon Musk and
Speaker 2: things like that Musk less.
Speaker 3: So though I think Twitter at some point will have
Speaker 3: a reckoning, I think it is inevitable that this company
Speaker 3: burns more money than it makes, and also with the
Speaker 3: fact that Elon now has to replace multiple members of
Speaker 3: the board of Tesla, right But the thing that I
Speaker 3: think is going to be the reckoning is artificial intelligence
Speaker 3: because right now they're trying to put generative AI into everything,
Speaker 3: a product that no one really knows the reason why
Speaker 3: it exists, but they're putting it into everything.
Speaker 1: And the way that.
Speaker 3: This is growing revenue is Microsoft invested in open ai
Speaker 3: and Google invested in Anthropic, the two largest model companies,
Speaker 3: So that's guaranteed revenue those companies have to use them
Speaker 3: now bookable cloud revenue. As the AI industry grows, so
Speaker 3: does their revenue guaranteed, no antitrust law to stop them
Speaker 3: from literally just investing in a company that would then
Speaker 3: invest the money that they just invested back in the company.
Speaker 3: It's a horrible circle. The reason that I think this
Speaker 3: might fall apart is because they're also scaling up their
Speaker 3: data centers to match this demand. Because AI is extremely compute,
Speaker 3: sent demanding. It's extremely demanding. You cannot just run it
Speaker 3: on your computer at home. You need specialized chips, and
Speaker 3: you need a lot of them. And so as they
Speaker 3: massively scale this system that's deeply unprofitable, Eventually people are
Speaker 3: just going to not use it if it's not useful,
Speaker 3: if it really isn't actually useful. So suddenly you're going
Speaker 3: to have companies like Microsoft and Google that invested billions
Speaker 3: and billions of dollars and hectares of real estate for
Speaker 3: data centers, and they're going to find themselves with their
Speaker 3: dicks out. They're gonna be like, oh shit, we put
Speaker 3: all this money into something that no one wants. I
Speaker 3: think that will have a severe enough correction that things
Speaker 3: will get slightly back on track or it destroys the
Speaker 3: entire tech ecosystem for a few years and everything's kind
Speaker 3: of screwed.
Speaker 1: Hil. There's a big.
Speaker 3: Chance of that because this stuff doesn't make any money.
Speaker 3: None of these things are profitable, none of them, not
Speaker 3: one of them. And if users, if users stop using it,
Speaker 3: even if they're forced to, what's left all of this
Speaker 3: real estate, all of these data centers in videos market cap,
Speaker 3: Where the hell does all this money go? It doesn't
Speaker 3: go anywhere. It will affect the tech industry and it
Speaker 3: will be bad. And I think people are laughing. People
Speaker 3: are kind of done with Generative AI already, Like a
Speaker 3: regular person does not know why they need. Chad gbt
Speaker 3: the seven million dollar Super Bowl commercial for Microsoft's co
Speaker 3: Pilot AI. They had a thing in there where it's like,
Speaker 3: do me a logo of a classic truck, Mike's truck.
Speaker 3: If you actually type that into chat into Microsoft Copilot
Speaker 3: and chat GPT. Generative AI can't do letters.
Speaker 1: It can't do.
Speaker 3: Letters, so it's like massa but it looks like a
Speaker 3: thuluyah And it's another thing. And there's another thing in
Speaker 3: there where they're like, oh, do the code for my
Speaker 3: open world game. These aren't ideas. No one's doing this,
Speaker 3: These aren't normal people things that people. No one's all that,
Speaker 3: and was like, wow, I can now make an open,
Speaker 3: woke game. No one's not fucking stupid, or at least
Speaker 3: if they all, they'll do it and then nothing won't happen.
Speaker 1: So I remember this one story where I was like, like,
Speaker 1: I talked to somebody who's familiar with Marcus was like
Speaker 1: so much of like the market growth I forget what
Speaker 1: year it was, but was like propped up by AI stuff,
Speaker 1: and so I was like looking, I was like, so
Speaker 1: what does that mean? Because nobody really knows what AI is?
Speaker 1: How is it being propped up? Like how how is
Speaker 1: that translating to value? And like one of the metrics
Speaker 1: that they were using was like all about a user
Speaker 1: adoption of chat GPT and how it was like the
Speaker 1: fastest adoption, like faster than TikTok, faster than any social
Speaker 1: media up to this point. And it turned out to
Speaker 1: be bullshit, Like it was internal numbers that were bullshit
Speaker 1: that they were lying about. But the thing that was
Speaker 1: exciting and that got people excited enough to like invest
Speaker 1: money was the lie. And so that's still the thing
Speaker 1: that just lasts. Like it really feels like in addition
Speaker 1: to you know, the them being the input of information
Speaker 1: coming from the investors, like they're also controlling it so
Speaker 1: that no bad news gets circled into that system. And
Speaker 1: it's just this like bullshit economy that just like cycles
Speaker 1: back and forth in the top and like won't it
Speaker 1: won't allow that input of information that all of this
Speaker 1: is bullshit, and then people aren't using it.
Speaker 3: Really, I feel like what's going to happen is this push,
Speaker 3: this big lie that you're correct about, by the way,
Speaker 3: is going to have something bad happen as a result
Speaker 3: of it. If you remember, back in twenty twelve, Night Capital,
Speaker 3: Night Capital was a hedge fund that, due to an
Speaker 3: incorrectly installed algorithm, invested billions of dollars in stocks it
Speaker 3: could not afford. It lost them about four hundred and
Speaker 3: ten million dollars. They ended up having to sell for parts. Yeah,
Speaker 3: something like that to people time. Yeah, well it wasn't
Speaker 3: even falling the people. It was just it never stopped buying.
Speaker 3: That was It's a quite complex thing, but the algorithm
Speaker 3: was off, so it didn't have appointment. It stopped buying stocks.
Speaker 3: It just bought way too much. Haven't we all been there?
Speaker 1: But something like yes, I feel sick, something.
Speaker 3: Like that is going to happen though. Yeah, and Gemini,
Speaker 3: which is Google's generative AI, they had a big problem
Speaker 3: where you typed in what do the founding fathers look like?
Speaker 3: And it generated a black guy, a black like the
Speaker 3: concept of like a Chinese George Washington is terrifying to
Speaker 3: be these woke, like anti woke guys. But that was
Speaker 3: actually significant enough that summed up a shy this year
Speaker 3: of Google had to say something about it. I think
Speaker 3: something bigger and worse happens with someone who adopts generative
Speaker 3: AI that destroys the company. I think it it does
Speaker 3: something so significant that that scares the market. Because there
Speaker 3: was a Wall Street journal story a few weeks ago
Speaker 3: where they were saying, anthropic and open, we're having trouble
Speaker 3: selling their stuff because of the hallucinations, because these mistakes
Speaker 3: it was making. And in the article it's great you
Speaker 3: can see the journalists trying to be like, so, how
Speaker 3: are they going to fix this? And the quotes were like, well,
Speaker 3: at one point, we'll tell the model to not say
Speaker 3: anything if it doesn't know for sure, and then the
Speaker 3: next thing with someone saying yeah. But the problem is
Speaker 3: if you tell an ai that sometimes it will just
Speaker 3: stop answering at all. Go no, mate, I don't trust
Speaker 3: myself right now. It's like taking someone's keys away when
Speaker 3: they've been drinking. But that's the thing. At some point,
Speaker 3: people are going to notice this doesn't do anything. This
Speaker 3: is not They want this to be the next there's
Speaker 3: a phraser. No one ever gets fired for buying IBM, right.
Speaker 3: They want this to be that, but it isn't useful,
Speaker 3: and every person who's a big fan of it, it's like,
Speaker 3: well it will be and then you ask how, and
Speaker 3: they're like, I am really sorry. I got to take
Speaker 3: a phone call. I'll be back in three hours. Please
Speaker 3: don't wait here. I do not have an answer, And
Speaker 3: it's just I also think that this is over willingly.
Speaker 3: This kind of stuff is becoming more and more obvious
Speaker 3: for the regular people, and they're going to get angry.
Speaker 3: I'm angry about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think everybody should be angry about it.
Speaker 1: I just don't know, like it feels like they have
Speaker 1: built this system to insulate them from our anger at
Speaker 1: this point, and at a certain point, I don't know
Speaker 1: what it looks like what the what the event is
Speaker 1: that makes it so they can no longer ignore that anger,
Speaker 1: because yeah, I'm definitely a product of having grown up
Speaker 1: in this system, and you know, my first memory is
Speaker 1: being like Clintonian, you know, bullshit, and just like not
Speaker 1: being able to imagine something different. But something different is
Speaker 1: definitely coming.
Speaker 3: I think that it's just you're going to start seeing
Speaker 3: the Facebook advertising model breakdown. Yeah, online advertising is becoming
Speaker 3: less profitable and less useful. As though as that starts dying,
Speaker 3: the tech industry is going to realize that they've got
Speaker 3: a big problem when when Meta's market cap goes down
Speaker 3: and when AI stops generating revenue, when it stops being
Speaker 3: the buzzy thing that you have to install, that you
Speaker 3: have to integrate even if you don't know what it does.
Speaker 3: What happens, then what's up? Mark Benioff. Every time, like
Speaker 3: I think, at least once a year we'll say that
Speaker 3: AI is now in Salesforce, and he has done so
Speaker 3: since like twenty sixteen. Every year Right Sales Sports claims
Speaker 3: that has AI in it. It is just a giant con.
Speaker 3: At times, it feels like that, and it feels like
Speaker 3: I know it sounds a bit conspiratal, but it feels
Speaker 3: like they're laughing at us on some level.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yeah, I feel like they're also scared, right,
Speaker 1: Like they they should need to, so they need to
Speaker 1: allow Google to become a monopoly and like, you know,
Speaker 1: just abuse the smaller companies to remain profitable because Google
Speaker 1: is too big to fail, because all of these companies
Speaker 1: are already like that lie that you're talking about, that
Speaker 1: like that crashes the economy, like and that is the
Speaker 1: thing that everybody's on the f that's resident down to
Speaker 1: you know, the top point two percent of the economy
Speaker 1: like can't allow to happen.
Speaker 3: But even then, Google doesn't need to operate like this.
Speaker 3: They make like ten billion dollars of profit quarter, right,
Speaker 3: they don't need to run like this. The economy doesn't
Speaker 3: have to run like this. Tech companies were plenty profitable before,
Speaker 3: and there are ways to do that.
Speaker 1: Uber.
Speaker 3: The thing that really frustrates me about Uber is had
Speaker 3: Uber been done slightly differently and much slower, it could
Speaker 3: have been the single most disruptive and important tech company
Speaker 3: of all time. Had they done everything they did but
Speaker 3: made it so that this is the crazy thing. Had
Speaker 3: they done like labor rates baked into it would have
Speaker 3: made them less money, would have made them slow. But
Speaker 3: just charge them, charge people more. People would have paid more.
Speaker 3: You would have created a new class of employee. Yeah,
Speaker 3: one covered one protected a massive change in labor. That
Speaker 3: company would have been worth several trillion dollars just to Yeah,
Speaker 3: would have taken them twenty years to get there, but
Speaker 3: they would have been. Instead, we have this massively unprofitable,
Speaker 3: labor screwing piece of shit company that has the monopoly
Speaker 3: on cabs because cabs were built on another kind of
Speaker 3: exploitative system, the medallion system, right right, And it's just
Speaker 3: things can change, And indeed, I think they will through
Speaker 3: awareness alone, because when I did the first Rock Economy episode,
Speaker 3: I've got so many emails people being like, oh shit,
Speaker 3: I didn't know that. I feel that more people knowing
Speaker 3: will put that pressure around there. People will stop using
Speaker 3: these products, and as users stop being interested in like
Speaker 3: these dogshit products, things will change.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just more about creating enough of the awareness
Speaker 2: around it, because I think most people get caught up
Speaker 2: in the razzle dazzle of it all, and you see,
Speaker 2: like even the people who you know, like it's like,
Speaker 2: we're a country that's ran by older people who don't
Speaker 2: understand technology, so they're not with they're not understanding what
Speaker 2: the borders should be or the guard reil should be.
Speaker 2: So that creates this environment for people to just completely
Speaker 2: shift the thinking to be like, rather than you know,
Speaker 2: like making a product, what we need to do is
Speaker 2: like sell one of those companies, because that's how people
Speaker 2: talk and it's not about making the thing. It's like, yo, man,
Speaker 2: we've got to create a company we can sell and
Speaker 2: that's just it. And because of that, there's no value
Speaker 2: in it, and it merely just becomes about the act
Speaker 2: of making said company and then flogging it to side
Speaker 2: and a ton of money.
Speaker 1: I will wrap it.
Speaker 3: Up because I know I've gone on and on about this,
Speaker 3: but the actual thing that I think this comes back
Speaker 3: to is a societal problem with the concept of business itself.
Speaker 3: I think that they we have lionized big companies over
Speaker 3: good companies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I go.
Speaker 3: I run a small PR firm and I have in
Speaker 3: people for years like you need to scale, and I'm
Speaker 3: always up why and they're like, because that's what big
Speaker 3: good company is big? Yeah, it isn't a big we
Speaker 3: lionize managers and management. But I think especially the pandemic
Speaker 3: proof there, it's very obvious that the managers and the
Speaker 3: CEOs don't do the work right. Yeah, and I think
Speaker 3: there's a labor awakening. It's slow, but it's happening that
Speaker 3: will change almost every step of everything.
Speaker 1: But talking about now, this whole conversation has been you know,
Speaker 1: having worked at and run Cracked back in the day
Speaker 1: and just you know, it started out as this website
Speaker 1: that had these really good articles because we had like
Speaker 1: a handful of really talented people, and we kept like
Speaker 1: bringing these talented people into focus on making the good product.
Speaker 1: But there was also these people who were like focused
Speaker 1: on doing the ads in the sidebar and like making
Speaker 1: those ads trick you into thinking you were clicking on content.
Speaker 1: And that is what the entire Internet became. Like the
Speaker 1: people who made the content got choked out, and the
Speaker 1: people who do the sidebar fake ads that trick you
Speaker 1: into thinking you're clicking on content where you're actually clicking
Speaker 1: on something that is going to fuck your computer.
Speaker 3: And yeah, you know who go off of Reddit, a
Speaker 3: community entirely made up of free contributions. Sam Altman right,
Speaker 3: he made four hundred million dollars. Yeah, like Dad is
Speaker 3: the guy, not the moderators, not the redditors who made
Speaker 3: the Internet better for their redditing. I guess you'd call
Speaker 3: that no, Sam Altman a guy whose only role at
Speaker 3: that company was to put money in at one point.
Speaker 3: This is something that I feel like if more people
Speaker 3: are aware of, they will turn on the tech industry
Speaker 3: and they bloody well should Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, Yeah, such a pleasure having you, man. Where
Speaker 1: can people find you? Follow you? Read more from you?
Speaker 3: So you can find me on x the everything app
Speaker 3: at ed zetron, eating the I t r o N
Speaker 3: everything appy, Find me on blue Sky, zitron, dot bskuy,
Speaker 3: dot social or dot app I forget. Just type in
Speaker 3: zitron I should come up and you can find podcast
Speaker 3: better offline dot com click podcast and it's got all
Speaker 3: your links that you could need and the newsletters. Where's
Speaker 3: your aunt dot at?
Speaker 1: Amazing? Is there a work of media that you've been enjoying.
Speaker 3: I'd been listening a lot Queens of the Stoneages in
Speaker 3: Times New Roman, which I realized as a band I've
Speaker 3: now mentioned too much on this podcast, came out late
Speaker 3: last year. It's an amazing album on midd last year.
Speaker 3: It's an amazing album, but I stopped listening to it
Speaker 3: for a few months because I'd massively overplayed it and
Speaker 3: then just got right back into it. I love that band,
Speaker 3: so it's like their second best album. It's really something.
Speaker 2: What number album was that that cat was at the
Speaker 2: first seven? Oh wow, man, okay, I think after the
Speaker 2: one that Dave Grohl drummed on.
Speaker 1: That was sort of the when I stopped.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was song the Deaf that was the second one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, amazing. Miles, where can people find you?
Speaker 1: What's work media you've been enjoying?
Speaker 2: Find me on the AT based life forms at Miles
Speaker 2: of Gray. Yeah, and then you can just find me,
Speaker 2: you know, doing that stuff there. Also, if you like basketball,
Speaker 2: check out Jack and Ice basketball podcast. Miles and Jack
Speaker 2: got mad boosties. If you like ninety ifiance, catched me
Speaker 2: on my ninety Fancy podcast for twenty Day Fiance, I
Speaker 2: just switched the one with the FSA.
Speaker 3: It was horrible.
Speaker 2: Oh man, the way George Man he's he gets it criminal.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah, oh yeah, he's a stammer too. Now
Speaker 2: she's a bodybuilder, so you know, shout out in FISA
Speaker 2: or at least was doing that. Let's see a tweet
Speaker 2: that I like Natalie at jbfaneted, I don't care if
Speaker 2: I have microplastics in my body. You know what else
Speaker 2: is in there, love, joy, kindness. They will take care
Speaker 2: of the microplastics.
Speaker 1: Just a grim tweet.
Speaker 2: Because there was a recent study that was like, there's
Speaker 2: not a placenta on Earth that doesn't have microplastics.
Speaker 1: Microplastics. Yeah, yeah, we'll plastic, We'll plastic. Yum, yum, yum. Yep.
Speaker 1: All right. You can find me on Twitter at Jack
Speaker 1: Underscore O'Brien. I enjoyed this tweet. John Frankensteiner on March
Speaker 1: second tweeted, Happy lou Reed Day. And it's an interview
Speaker 1: with Vulture where Vulture sure said serious as impending merger
Speaker 1: with XM is anticipated to boost earnings, do you own
Speaker 1: any stock in the company? And lou Reid responded, what
Speaker 1: are you a fucking asshole? I'm here telling you the
Speaker 1: truth about music, and you want to know if I
Speaker 1: have stock in the fucking radio, you fucking piece of shit?
Speaker 1: What did I do to deserve that?
Speaker 3: Can I read one that's thematically relevant as well?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's from atdril of course. Yeah, yeah, Ai, sorry,
Speaker 3: I'm not allowed to speculate upon the sexuality of nineteen
Speaker 3: seventies game show hosts me. This is like talking to
Speaker 3: the smartest man in the world.
Speaker 1: Holy shit, you're so smart. Oh my god, do that
Speaker 1: you do that?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore Brian.
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist. We're
Speaker 1: at the Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook
Speaker 1: fan page on a website daily zei dot com, where
Speaker 1: we post our episodes and our footnote no when we
Speaker 1: link off to the information that we talked about in
Speaker 1: today's episode, as well as a song that we think
Speaker 1: you might enjoy mine. Oh, well, do you think people.
Speaker 2: Might enjoy I mistakenly thought that, you know, the school
Speaker 2: Boy C's album Blue Lips came out on Wear Blue
Speaker 2: Awareness Day, which was about raising colon cancer awareness Aaron so.
Speaker 2: But either way, the album did come out, and I
Speaker 2: think it's a fantastic album. It's different than his other albums.
Speaker 2: It's I would say it's it's it's his to Pimp
Speaker 2: a Butterfly because it's not just full of trunk exploding
Speaker 2: like you know, just you know bangers, but this track
Speaker 2: the the whole album's great, but I'm just gonna point
Speaker 2: this one out.
Speaker 1: It's called pig Feet.
Speaker 2: Check it out. It's featuring Childish Major.
Speaker 1: This is from.
Speaker 2: The school wi y album Blue Lips, So yeah, get
Speaker 2: into the whole album.
Speaker 1: Get into the whole again. We will link off to
Speaker 1: that in the footnotes. The Daily these Guys is the
Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, My Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio ap Apple podcast, or wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. That is going to do it
Speaker 1: for us this morning, back this afternoon to tell you
Speaker 1: what's trending, and we'll talk to you all done. Fight
Speaker 1: up the Raider Nation