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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to season three, twenty eight,

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Speaker 1: Episode two of dirt Ally's I Guys Say production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: This is a podcast where we take a deep dive

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Speaker 1: into America's shared consciousness. And it is Tuesday, March fifth,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we found Hey man, it's a scumbag buffet

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Speaker 2: because it's two consumable items have their national day, National

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Speaker 2: cheese doodle Day and National absinthe Day. So why why

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Speaker 2: don't you bust out the sugar cubes and lighter gets

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Speaker 2: your absent on, and then you know, top it off

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Speaker 2: with some nice cheese dudles just to give yourself, you know, a.

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Speaker 1: Fully balanced meal.

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Speaker 3: Today is the Yeah, it's.

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Speaker 2: Like a it's like a like a Cheetoh, it's like

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Speaker 2: a fuff cheeto.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like so the way you get cheese doodles.

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Speaker 1: You ever see one of those fireworks that like turns

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Speaker 1: into like a tub, like, Yeah, so that's how those

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Speaker 1: are created. They do that and then powder them in cheese.

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Speaker 3: Who says America doesn't build anything anymore?

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Speaker 1: We're the great, the international greats. I feel like cheese

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Speaker 1: doodles have to be wildly flammable. Right, yeah, why not, suspect.

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Speaker 2: Note, I don't know everything in America's seems like it's

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Speaker 2: like eighty percent petroleum for some reason.

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Speaker 1: The corn, it's just corn. Man, well, which corn is ethanol? Yeah? Okay, bike?

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Speaker 3: So I googled cheese doodles to find out what they were,

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Speaker 3: and someone had posted in our slash chips all caps wise,

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Speaker 3: why did you change the cheese doodles recipe?

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Speaker 1: All caps?

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Speaker 3: Looks like six or seven question mark and exclamation marks

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Speaker 3: all caps. This is actually a very big thread of

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Speaker 3: people just whose lives have been ruined by.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the rocket economy reaches offline and into your cheese

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Speaker 1: doodle bag as we're going to get to Florida. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: before you get into it, my name is Jack O'Brien aga.

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Speaker 1: When I get to the party and I sit in

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Speaker 1: a comfortable chair, then I unsit my pants and up

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Speaker 1: boyd bringo stare till we get to the climax and

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Speaker 1: we're coming again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you want to

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Speaker 1: sit in a circle? Do you want to scream Winston

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Speaker 1: Churchill circle jerky circle jerkle circle jerk That is courtesy

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Speaker 1: oh Cleo universe. Shout out to you and shout out

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Speaker 1: to the Beatles.

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Speaker 3: Song ends with him saying, uncle blisters on my fingers.

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Speaker 1: I know from jerking off to front of beating.

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Speaker 3: Off in front John let that's right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is of course a reference to the fact

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Speaker 1: that the Beatles did jack off in front of each other.

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Speaker 1: And we know that, and I don't feel comfortable knowing

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Speaker 1: it without you knowing it. So there you go. I'm

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Speaker 1: thrilled to be joined as always, I my co host,

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Speaker 1: mister Miles Gras. It's Miles Gray.

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Speaker 4: Akaa boo in boo out, boo in boo out. Blue

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Speaker 4: in I'm a monster ahead tastes better than the rest

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Speaker 4: blue fequal dread monster head. Still a monster head tastes

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Speaker 4: better than the rest blue fleecal dread. Yeah, my purpose

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Speaker 4: stuit in blue, my poopersun in blue.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the courtesy of Hugo Bask. Obviously that was

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Speaker 2: to the Tuna machine head by Bush. And obviously that's

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Speaker 2: a reference to my love of blue ice cream. That

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Speaker 2: does affect the color of min of your pooh excretions, Yes,

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Speaker 2: thank you.

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Speaker 1: It's also it's crazy, but schoolboy Q heard about heard

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Speaker 1: you say that last week and changed the tent. This

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Speaker 1: album to lips, and he was talking about of course

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Speaker 1: both lips, the lips going in and your butler lips.

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Speaker 1: Exactly gross gross, I think, yeah, sorry about that. Our

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Speaker 1: guests love. I love getting like this up top when

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Speaker 1: we have an expert guest. Yeah, just be make sure

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Speaker 1: they know what they're in for. Just pissed off. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't told to prepare a song.

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Speaker 2: Oh, next time, next time, many next time.

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Speaker 1: We are thrilled to be joined by a tech journalist,

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Speaker 1: writer behind the newsletter Where's Your Head At? His new

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Speaker 1: podcast with cool Zone Media Better Offline is a must listen. Also,

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Speaker 1: how I found out about that New York magazine The

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Speaker 1: Cut personal finance expert being scammed to the tune of

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars cash in a shoe box. I think

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Speaker 1: how a lot of people found out about it. It's

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Speaker 1: exit dry.

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Speaker 3: What's exactly where it's from? Yah, dude, Rudy, Rudy, fantastic album.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's Rudy right with the ape like yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what great song? Great jacks?

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, all right, Well we'll start on a high note, ed,

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Speaker 2: I mean next time. Yeah, we will give you ample

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Speaker 2: time to prepare an AKA that either has to do

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Speaker 2: with fecal matter or circle jerking with the Beatles or

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Speaker 2: something like that, or something.

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Speaker 1: Of your own choosing.

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Speaker 3: You can start preparing now just saying that thing very

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Speaker 3: what can I put the Bush's glycerine?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Sometimes they just like, doesn't that song say got

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Speaker 1: a machine Head? Yeah, He's just like it's a cool title,

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Speaker 1: and I'm just gonna be like, got a machine It

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Speaker 1: doesn't really the the rest green to they're red right,

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Speaker 1: green to red.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, not exactly Shakespeare.

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Speaker 1: No, not quite. They would like come up with a

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Speaker 1: cool word and then just be like I've got one

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Speaker 1: of those.

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Speaker 3: They're not as good as the Hives though. The Hives

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Speaker 3: are just complete nonsense that. My favorite better is Joko

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Speaker 3: Got a Smoke b Gon a Gong Wow album. Recently

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Speaker 3: it was like this is awful lyrically this, I'm like,

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Speaker 3: I feel I can get to a concussion listening to it.

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Speaker 3: We just want to get listening to it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what happens, is I feel like with the

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Speaker 1: Bush Guy it is a little bit. Yeah, Gavin Rossdale

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Speaker 1: is a little bit of the bubble, like the thirty

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Speaker 1: Rock episode where John Hamm is a doctor who's just

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Speaker 1: so good looking that. People are just like, damn, man,

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Speaker 1: you are the best doctor ever. And he like doesn't

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Speaker 1: know what he doesn't know ship He's like, hey, here

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Speaker 1: try my special recipe orange chicken, and it's just chicken

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Speaker 1: cooked and orange gatorade. Like I feel like Gavin Rossdale

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Speaker 1: is just so stunningly you think, Oh yeah, I think.

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Speaker 3: He's just a good looking guy.

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Speaker 1: Gavin Rossdale wasn't he.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I mean people were definitely over him in

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Speaker 2: the US, in the US and when first hit, when

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Speaker 2: first came out, for sure, I mean he looks.

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Speaker 3: Like a slightly upgraded Jeremy Clarkson. Come on, wow, I

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Speaker 3: don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think I get. I gave him a lot of

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Speaker 1: credit once he got with Gwen Stefani.

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Speaker 3: And he went with Oh so he is the reason

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Speaker 3: why they haven't made a good album since Return of Saturn.

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Speaker 2: That's right, yeah, exactly, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Anyways, this is an album talk yeah, no, Ed, how

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Speaker 1: are you doing? Where are you coming to us? From?

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Speaker 3: Las Vegas, Nevada?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada.

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Speaker 1: How long you've lived in Vegas?

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Speaker 3: Three years?

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Speaker 1: Okay? Where'd you live before that? California? Was in Oakland? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Okay, Wow you went from the East Bay. Wow you

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Speaker 2: really followed the Raiders. Oh yeah, well I didn't do

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Speaker 2: it for that reason, you know. Would you look at

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Speaker 2: the product on the field. I love it here though.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You like to go visit the Immortal Flame of Al

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Speaker 2: Davis and right in front.

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Speaker 1: Of it the ragious Will to Win. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: When you go there and do the tour, they all

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Speaker 3: say that stuff to you. It's Baganda. It's just like,

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Speaker 3: you can't be you can't be saying that shit anymore.

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Speaker 3: When Maurice Jones Drew was like an exciting guy on

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Speaker 3: your team, it means things have been bad for a while.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, man, j.

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Speaker 1: What is it like living in Vegas? Are you hitting

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Speaker 1: any of the shows? Is that what I imagined to be? Just,

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Speaker 1: you know, rat pack shit every night?

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Speaker 3: You and yeah plenty.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 3: So I'm a huge homebody. I don't like going out,

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Speaker 3: so I am at home most of the time. But

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Speaker 3: when I do go out, I like to be very precise.

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Speaker 3: I don't like to go out for an evening. I

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Speaker 3: want to go out, have dinner, have drinks, come home.

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Speaker 3: Vegas is so convenient. You can get pretty much anywhere

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Speaker 3: here in twenty minutes. This is great if you're I

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Speaker 3: guess I'm addicted to staying at home and drinking diet cokes,

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Speaker 3: which is pretty easy to manage. But if you have

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Speaker 3: another addiction, Vegas will find a way to bring it

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Speaker 3: to you.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, or bring you to it. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And so this place drives people insane, but was one

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Speaker 3: of the best food cultures I've ever seen. Right, it's

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Speaker 3: really cool. If you are in control of yourself, it's

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Speaker 3: amazing you to death.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the economy is like based on so like people

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Speaker 1: who are in control of themselves get to like have

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Speaker 1: better times than they would otherwise, because yes, the economy

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Speaker 1: is fueled by all these people with very difficult problems.

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Speaker 3: But also it's become a lot more respectable, Like it's

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Speaker 3: a lot more like going out to nice restaurants and

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Speaker 3: shows and music now it used to be when it

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Speaker 3: was going out and making a mistake or five Yeah yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: Now it's less that it's the strip's much nicer. Freemont

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Speaker 3: Streets horrible though, people need to stop saying, God, it's

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Speaker 3: horrible that it's also really expensive now, yeah, very strange place.

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Speaker 1: So it was everywhere it turns out, Yeah, but every Yeah,

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Speaker 1: last time I was in Vegas, I had the thought

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Speaker 1: that this would be a good place to take my kids.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, which the thought I had.

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Speaker 2: At the Luxor. And you're like, oh, yeah, you go

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Speaker 2: see bodies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly, this sharks like there's a whole thing

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Speaker 1: that's just there's a whole like thread of culture and

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Speaker 1: content that is like just all woven throughout the strip

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Speaker 1: that is like aimed at five to twelve year old boys.

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Speaker 1: There's Times and Michael Jackson, which they're really into as well.

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Speaker 3: I'll be I don't want to put him in the

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Speaker 3: sentences as boys, That's true.

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Speaker 2: There's I remember the time when my mom would go

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Speaker 2: with her friends, just like they would go gamble. She

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Speaker 2: would give me twenty dollars or something and be like,

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Speaker 2: I'll be back in a few hours. Yeah, And I

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Speaker 2: was like, Yeah, I can make this work and I

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Speaker 2: combat or something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, all right, Ed, we're gonna get into the

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Speaker 1: rot economy and just that is Yeah, various things that

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Speaker 1: I've learned from reading you and listening to your podcast.

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Speaker 1: But before we do that, we like to get to

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Speaker 1: know you a little bit better by asking you, either,

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Speaker 1: what is something from your search history that's revealing about

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Speaker 1: who you are, or what is something that you've recently

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Speaker 1: screencapped that is revealing about who you are?

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Speaker 3: So my thing is if you go to my Google

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Speaker 3: search history, it's like Queens of the stone Age Live

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Speaker 3: four k and then a series of Boolean strings to

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Speaker 3: see if any new bootleg has risen to the top.

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Speaker 3: Because I'm a huge Queen's of the stone Age van

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Speaker 3: seen sixteen times. I love this band. I listened to

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Speaker 3: them all the time. And I just trolled YouTube because

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Speaker 3: it used to be back in the day, back in

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Speaker 3: the day, and I used to find the stuffs going internet.

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Speaker 3: Get people, email them, I have an FTP thing. You

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Speaker 3: have all this bad No, it's just all on YouTube now, right,

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Speaker 3: So like that is a large part of my googling

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Speaker 3: and that and like someone slash Earnings, like I'm usually

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Speaker 3: looking at like random tech earnings, just like reading Dross

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Speaker 3: and then sitting there like banging my head against the desk,

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Speaker 3: being like, how can this company exist? This is a

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Speaker 3: bad company, right, torturing myself every day?

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Speaker 1: Do you question from ed is it? How do you exist?

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Speaker 2: You're like Josh Home, Josh Home earning.

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Speaker 1: Hey, I just got a spam phone call by the way.

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Speaker 1: Nice cool, a little preview of what we're talking about. Yeah, phones,

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Speaker 1: don't worry anymore. What is something that you think is underrated? Underrated?

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Speaker 3: Is Vegas is dining scene.

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Speaker 1: I've lived in.

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Speaker 3: New York, lived in San Francisco, lived in London obviously,

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Speaker 3: and I'm used to so well London. I wouldn't say

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Speaker 3: it's great dining culture, but I've been around great food cities,

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Speaker 3: and I think Vegas is one of the best in

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Speaker 3: the world.

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Speaker 2: What are you ly is what do you chalk that

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Speaker 2: up to in the sense of like go to any

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Speaker 2: place there and it's gonna be good, or that there's

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Speaker 2: a high concentration of good.

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Speaker 3: The amount of the amount of B plus restaurants here

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Speaker 3: is much larger than anywhere else. Yeah, so genuinely pretty

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Speaker 3: affordable as well, and there are some really really really

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Speaker 3: nice high end ones. Bizarre Me is one of the

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Speaker 3: best restaurants in the world. And also every Vegas restaurant

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Speaker 3: has a of like the service is always a bit

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Speaker 3: of extra fun, right, you get a lot out of it,

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Speaker 3: like that, there's a there's usually a little bit of

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Speaker 3: a show, not like something stupid, but they're super charming,

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Speaker 3: they remember everything that the service culture. It's actually a

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Speaker 3: surprisingly working class c very strong unions here, which is awesome,

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Speaker 3: and the service like love their jobs in most even

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Speaker 3: in cheapest places, Like it seems like a pretty great

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Speaker 3: city for food, and yet people come here and they're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: it's just it's just all chains, and yeah there are

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Speaker 3: chains here. There's every goddamn chain, it feels like. But

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Speaker 3: like the actual food is great and you can find

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Speaker 3: something pretty good even on really really crowded days.

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Speaker 2: Like so is this strictly to the strip or are

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Speaker 2: we talking about this is everywhere?

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Speaker 1: So like what's your favorite because like if a theme

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Speaker 1: restaurant got turned into a city, that's Las Vegas. Yeah right,

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Speaker 1: there's a city sized theme restaurant. It's just cultural cultural.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that's right. Wait, so what's your favorite off strip restaurant?

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Speaker 2: Just so like you know, we under like just to

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Speaker 2: give me an idea of because I think we all

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Speaker 2: when people go they are always looking like, well, what's

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Speaker 2: on the strip, But there's all like I've had great

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Speaker 2: Thai food. I think that's just on the on the

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Speaker 2: just off the strip.

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Speaker 3: So this is a bar rather than a restaurant, but

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Speaker 3: the wine patio library, there's the wine it's may just

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Speaker 3: be called like the wine patio. Now it's in like

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Speaker 3: a strip mall. It's my mate it used to be

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Speaker 3: a smelia In took me there and it's it's always quiet,

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Speaker 3: even when there's lots of people in there. Just the

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Speaker 3: vibe is wonderful in there and chill and technically it's

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Speaker 3: not quite off strip but cassa player in the encourse.

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Speaker 3: Pretty good for Mexican food, okay. My mate used to

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Speaker 3: do the mezcal stuff there and the mescal is fantastic,

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Speaker 3: Like it's just there. There are lots of fun places

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Speaker 3: to go. Jira was it? No jing in Summolin it's

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Speaker 3: a pretty good sushi, okay, but there are lots of

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Speaker 3: like fun places to go and find and Summalin is

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Speaker 3: it very much a master playing community.

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Speaker 1: It's beautiful.

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Speaker 3: It's more like Santa Monica than it is Vegas.

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Speaker 1: What as somebody from outside the US, like, what was

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Speaker 1: your perspective on Vegas before you moved there? And because

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Speaker 1: it feels like I sometimes say what I think, I

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Speaker 1: think one of the things that will be in museums

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Speaker 1: about our specific time in history is the Cheesecake Factory

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Speaker 1: menu because it's just it's maximalist appropriation, which is kind

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Speaker 1: of the main thing that America does. And I feel like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like you said that, that is what Las Vegas is,

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Speaker 1: but it.

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Speaker 3: Does things well like yeah, the qualities pret like Yardbird

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Speaker 3: inside the Venetian is one of my favorite restaurants anywhere.

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Speaker 3: It's a chain there in like La and Austin. I

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Speaker 3: love that place. There's just there's tons of and there

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Speaker 3: are cheaper places that are great too. The buffet are

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Speaker 3: pretty good. And I'd been to Vegas a lot before

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Speaker 3: I moved here, like a lot. So I used to

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Speaker 3: go with my film is a nuclear health and safety guy.

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Speaker 3: You used to go, Yeah, funum, So.

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Speaker 1: We used to. He taught me to. He taught me to.

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Speaker 3: Play craps as well, which is fun. But I used

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Speaker 3: to go and his whole thing was disciplined. So we

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Speaker 3: just walk around and find fun when I don't know,

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Speaker 3: just the tables are a bit rough and we didn't

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Speaker 3: want to go back to them for a bit. And

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Speaker 3: thus my whole thing with Vegas has always been exploration

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Speaker 3: rather than burning my entire bankroll down. Yeah, And so

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Speaker 3: it's just I've always liked it, and the residential places

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Speaker 3: are great, Like housing is still decently affordable. I'm sure

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Speaker 3: that's going to change eventually, like it is everywherehere else,

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Speaker 3: But it's a damn side bet than California was. Right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's changing rapidly, very quickly all the time here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, nothing's affordable in California. That's the difference between us

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Speaker 1: and everywhere else. Not a single thing. What is something

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Speaker 1: you think is over it? In and out, in and out.

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Speaker 1: The one affordable thing in California over it. It sucks.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry that burger doesn't taste good.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm British.

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Speaker 3: Were used to cramp and it's just like the milkshakes

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Speaker 3: are good, but the burgers are just crap. The fries

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Speaker 3: are awful. California people always telling me like acting like

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Speaker 3: this happens a lot. It's like, Okay, look you said

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Speaker 3: this yesterday. Yeah, why did you call me to tell

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Speaker 3: me that? But people will say it's like, oh, it's

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Speaker 3: so good you got and I've had it in the

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Speaker 3: original place. I've had the various franchises or they're not franchises,

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Speaker 3: various different satellite ones, and it's just gotten there, it's

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Speaker 3: just whatever.

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Speaker 2: It's not going to shake shack. Yeah, it's not going

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Speaker 2: to cheaper. It's much cheaper than both of those. I know,

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Speaker 2: a Burger van in twicken them. That's better than in

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Speaker 2: and out, you.

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Speaker 3: Know what I mean, anything made in a restaurant or

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Speaker 3: a kitchen versus.

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Speaker 1: Scraped off the floor.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's it's interesting too, because most people

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Speaker 2: just say it's fine, rather than you got the point perspective.

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Speaker 1: You're like, dude, this ship is gross. It's it.

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Speaker 3: Call me twice now, Yeah, I'm cut in tweeting in

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Speaker 3: and Out twice. Yeah, and protect it was just I

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Speaker 3: was hungry and it was the only thing we could get.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it happens.

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Speaker 3: It happens.

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Speaker 1: But it's also one of our most popular in and

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Speaker 1: outs or one of our most popular over ridges.

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Speaker 3: I'd say, yeah, well especially no, not in that sense.

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Speaker 2: I think it's like anybody who interacts with it, it's

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Speaker 2: it's like it's built up in this mythical way. And

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Speaker 2: then it's like the same thing with like Chick fil

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Speaker 2: A too, it's like built up in a way if

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Speaker 2: you're not around it all the time, and then you're

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Speaker 2: like all right, like yeah, fine, but I'm not like

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Speaker 2: going to change my middle name to in and out

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Speaker 2: like people would have me believe the result would be.

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Speaker 1: No. It's mainly the thing that's good about it is

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Speaker 1: the price point compared to the quality. Like I think

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Speaker 1: the fresh produce on your burger is really the thing

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Speaker 1: you're like that is unique about it and the low

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Speaker 1: price point. And I mean, my main reason for liking

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Speaker 1: it is because of the Bible versus all my cups

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Speaker 1: which brought me to Jesus.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I thought they were like weird libertarians

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Speaker 3: or I'm thinking of someone else.

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Speaker 1: Probably, I mean this fact a little Bible verse. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's not it's not very specific. They don't have the

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Speaker 1: quote on there. They're just directing you if you want

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Speaker 1: to check it out his hands.

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Speaker 3: Hey, while you're eating Christ, have you tried Jesus?

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Speaker 1: Have you? Have you?

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Speaker 2: Have you considered the fact that this Jesus thing, he

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Speaker 2: loved you so much, he gave his only bigotten son,

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Speaker 2: he gets us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love getting that commercial during the Souper Bowl Botles.

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Speaker 3: I love that there was a commercial because it's like,

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Speaker 3: who is the person's like, what the fuck is that?

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Speaker 1: Jesus not familiar and don't care to learn more.

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Speaker 3: We'll look him up.

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Speaker 1: All right, ed, let's take a quick break. When we

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Speaker 1: come back, we're going to talk about what you describe

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Speaker 1: as the rot economy. Well, we've talked about on our

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Speaker 1: show before as like the sense that things that we're

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Speaker 1: served by companies are getting like worse, just every everything's

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Speaker 1: kind of getting worse. So we'll be right back and

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Speaker 1: we're back.

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Speaker 2: We're back.

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Speaker 1: And the things that we've talked about getting worse on

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Speaker 1: here that they are endless examples. But it feels like

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Speaker 1: capitalism is kind of broken of late, if you like.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know when exactly it started, but it

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Speaker 1: feels like in the past ten year years it has

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Speaker 1: been absolutely palpable that we've broken away from Like company

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Speaker 1: creates a good product, You want good product because it's good.

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Speaker 1: Therefore company profits and continues making good product. Like has

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Speaker 1: that that system has broken? And I don't know you've

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Speaker 1: talked about it with regards to Google search. I've read

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Speaker 1: about it with dating apps, But like, where do you

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Speaker 1: usually start when somebody asks you what is the right economy?

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Speaker 1: Where do you usually start?

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Speaker 3: I think Google is a great place to start, but

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Speaker 3: Instagram is as well. So you go on Instagram these

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Speaker 3: days and you think I want to see pictures and

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Speaker 3: videos and people I follow. What Instagram wants to show

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Speaker 3: you is something else they want to show you. It's

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Speaker 3: much worse than Facebook. I'd say, they want to show

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Speaker 3: you a video ad or like a piece of sponsored content.

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Speaker 3: Facebook does this thing where they only show you like

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Speaker 3: an animated gift of the first two seconds so that

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Speaker 3: you will engage with it. Right, And this is all

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Speaker 3: because Facebook has matter I guess you call them now now,

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Speaker 3: I'm never going to do it. It's been like three

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to do it in this house.

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Speaker 1: We will Twitter in this house, in this house.

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Speaker 3: And the reason they're doing that is because these companies

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Speaker 3: have effectively turned against their users. Now now their whole

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Speaker 3: thing is that they must show growth every quarter, growth growth, growth,

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Speaker 3: And the result is Google Search does not show you

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Speaker 3: results that you'd like. They show you results that Google

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Speaker 3: has regurgitated and messed around so that you'll maybe click

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Speaker 3: a sponsored link, or because a company that has done

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Speaker 3: something called search engine optimization has found the link that

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Speaker 3: they can trick Google into showing you. As a result,

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Speaker 3: Google is worse, but Google does not care.

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Speaker 1: Gohople doesn't care? Right?

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Speaker 3: Fuck? They They still make They make money off the

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Speaker 3: ads by showing you them. If you accidentally click one,

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Speaker 3: they'll make money off that too. And it's why things

437
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 3: are getting worse in so many ways. It's why you

438
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 3: find companies that keep doing things. Another great example from

439
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 3: Google pushing AI into their Google system, despite the AI

440
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 3: not being as good as the already existent Google Assistant platform. Now,

441
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,959
Speaker 3: they're doing this because they want to show the street

442
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 3: that they are in AI, so the street will go, wow,

443
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 3: I want to buy and hold alphabet stock. Right, you

444
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 3: may think, now put one. Let's piss off the customers. Yes,

445
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,400
Speaker 3: but that's why Google has something called a monopoly. They

446
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,719
Speaker 3: pay what's over ten billion dollars a year to Apple,

447
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 3: so that Google is the default search engine.

448
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 1: I wasn't aware of that.

449
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 3: So good, so good, It's all so good. And what

450
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 3: you're going to do?

451
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 1: Use it bing? Right? Why don't we use bing? Is

452
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: it just because.

453
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 3: Because it's just as bad, because it's just Microsoft's.

454
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 2: Well, it's the same deal, and the AI with that too.

455
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

456
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 3: It is a result of the markets disconnecting from good business.

457
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 3: They don't look at companies and say, is this a

458
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 3: company that can survive without hiring or firing a bunch

459
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 3: of people at once. Is this a company that in

460
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 3: the sustainable form of business, one that will grow steadily

461
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 3: rather than pop and then potentially drop. No, they just

462
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 3: like growth growth growth, growth, growth.

463
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 2: Right, and then eventually it's like make the product worse.

464
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 3: And then well, the product gets worse than the street

465
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 3: doesn't care. It's not like they have to put Yeah,

466
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 3: we completely ruined Google Search in their earnings, and they

467
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 3: don't care. These people don't care. The people who are

468
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,640
Speaker 3: actually investing at the scale the Google gives a shit

469
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 3: about don't really care. They care about They don't even

470
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 3: care about profit. I don't know why you even said

471
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 3: profit there. They just care about revenue growth, market growth growth.

472
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,479
Speaker 3: It all costs and it's why things are worse. And

473
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 3: it's why Apple shoved out the Vision Pro half completed,

474
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 3: because they just needed to show the street that Apple

475
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 3: is still making new things in the gives you a

476
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 3: wed damn headache. That's like an unfinished product.

477
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, talking about that. So Ed, you know reviews tech

478
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 1: products and review the Apple Vision Pro and you called

479
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 1: it the single most interesting and annoying of technology ever made. Yes,

480
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: pretty much. You just like can't type with it.

481
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it hasn't on screen well in air, I

482
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 3: guess keyboard where you have to like poke it, you

483
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 3: have to poke the bits and it just doesn't work

484
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 3: very well. You can't really touch it. You can't use

485
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 3: your little fingers on it like you were type of

486
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 3: knob keyboard. You have to poke at it like a gorilla.

487
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 3: It's very weird. And also I tried to use it

488
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 3: several times on an airplane recently and it just gave

489
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 3: me a headache. Right, And it's insane by the way

490
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 3: that this is not a bigger story that Apple's new

491
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 3: thing just gives people headaches. But you know what, the

492
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 3: hell who cares? The street loves it.

493
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the street not being crench out Boulevard, but

494
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 2: Wall Street, yes great.

495
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 3: And the wider markets yeah, right. And it sucks because

496
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 3: the result of this, the result of markets rewarding companies

497
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,239
Speaker 3: that show revenue growth rather than make good things that

498
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 3: people like and building companies sustainably, is companies are no

499
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 3: longer incentivized to innovate. They're not incentivised to make cool

500
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 3: new things. They're incentivised to find ways to grow their pocketbooks.

501
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 3: And sometimes it's profit, sometimes it's just revenue.

502
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 2: Right when did this like inversion happen where we sort

503
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 2: of left we completely jettisoned ourselves from like, yeah, you

504
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 2: got to make something novel to earn the money that

505
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 2: people are going to give you. I mean, because it

506
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 2: felt like there was a time where it's like like

507
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 2: every iPhone doesn't feel revolutionary anymore.

508
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: It's just just.

509
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 2: Something they change one thing that people hated about the

510
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 2: last one, like dude, get ready for the revolution or whatever.

511
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 2: But when when did that actually become like really sort

512
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 2: of maybe not articulated, but really I guess in a

513
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 2: way really measurable or noticeable.

514
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 3: So I think it starts since twenty eleven with a

515
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 3: guy called Marc Andres and one of the principles andresen Horowitz,

516
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 3: a large venture capitalist firm that is very influential in

517
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 3: the valley and also one of the early investors in

518
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 3: Facebook a bunch of other companies.

519
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: He wrote a thing called software is eating the world Now.

520
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 1: The people that.

521
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 3: Glanced at it once and said, WHOA, that sounds good

522
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 3: didn't really read it deeply. What he was saying in

523
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 3: there was that tech companies should not be valued based

524
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 3: on their actual financials and what they do and build,

525
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 3: but based on a vague sense of like innovation and

526
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 3: what tech can do for society, the promise of tech

527
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 3: and the theoretical thing. And then around that time as well,

528
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 3: one of the other guys, Ben Horowitz, put a thing

529
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 3: out saying, basically put out a blog that said, Yeah,

530
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 3: maybe we don't need to just have companies that build sustainably.

531
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 3: What if you just had them grow as fast as

532
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 3: humanly possible. Imagine what we could sell them for. Very

533
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 3: out with what they thought. This inspired the venture capital

534
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 3: community to start investing in companies not just based on

535
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 3: whether they thought they'd grow sustainably or otherwise, and whether

536
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 3: they'd fulfill a market thing like a market need, but

537
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 3: only make them fulfilling market need. Only make them grow

538
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,479
Speaker 3: to get as many people and live basically on a

539
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 3: form of venture backed welfare. Uber being a great example

540
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 3: of a company that turned a profit maybe two quarters

541
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 3: in its existence, and they were propped up by venture dollars.

542
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 3: They were they used their unfair market share because they

543
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 3: could just wade in with low prices. Cut cab companies

544
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 3: out not. The cab companies were great, but that's what

545
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 3: they used right. And then Uber just grew and grew

546
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 3: and grew unsustainably, and now they're just cutting fares for

547
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 3: right for drivers. Now they're screwing the drivers over. The

548
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 3: experience is worse. It's harder to get an Uber, and

549
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,959
Speaker 3: it's more expensive when you do right, and they still

550
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 3: deeply unprofitable. Companies like Uber were extremely prevalent in the

551
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 3: middle of the twenty tens. That was mostly there was

552
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 3: the Uber for everything thing, but every startup felt like

553
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 3: they weren't real companies. They were just stuffed full of

554
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 3: venture capital dollars to eat as much market share as

555
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 3: they could before they got sold to a public company

556
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 3: or merged with another one.

557
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: Very rarely, sorry, real quick, I need to take a break.

558
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 1: My Washio driver is here to pick up your Washyah.

559
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 3: Was one of them around that.

560
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: For Uber, laundry for pet Goldfish.

561
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 3: But something happened around the mid twenty tens when I

562
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 3: think they realized we don't really need to try quite

563
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 3: as hard and tech just started making promises without delivering them,

564
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 3: and the streets still loved them. These companies still kept

565
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 3: getting acquired. These Redictus, and a bunch of consolidation happened

566
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 3: as well. Qualcomm kind of hoovered up a lot of

567
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 3: the bluetooth technology, Meta Bore, WhatsApp, they bought Oculus. These

568
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 3: things happened that didn't seem bad at the time, but

569
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 3: slowly tech was consolidating everything, and then just tech stopped

570
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 3: delivering innovation at the pace it did, which isn't really

571
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 3: its fault. Sometimes innovation slows, but the valuations kept going up.

572
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 3: They come on up and up and up and up

573
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 3: and up. Yeah, and then it just became obvious that

574
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 3: the things that people were valuing these companies but on

575
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 3: we're not really based on reality. They weren't based on

576
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 3: them being good. But then the moment they went public,

577
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 3: something weird happened. They suddenly started falling apart. They weren't

578
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 3: doing too well, and you'd think at this point you'd

579
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 3: be like, okay, so maybe this would make the tech

580
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 3: companies change their businesses to be some kind of profit

581
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 3: generating entity. Oh no, absolutely not. They just learned how

582
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 3: to show growth metrics. Why do you think Snap, a

583
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 3: company that has very rarely made any money at all

584
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 3: but now makes I forget exactly that I think that

585
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 3: they are a billion of revenue. But nevertheless, but they don't

586
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 3: make any profit at all. But because they can always grow, grow, grow,

587
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 3: and the teens use them. Oh that's a good company.

588
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 3: Despite the fact that Snapchat is one of the more

589
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 3: insane apps. You opened it recently, It's like a minefield

590
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 3: of different buttons and noises. It's like going to the

591
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 3: fucking circus. It's insane. Every Uber there's like eleven different

592
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 3: buttons that.

593
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: You can hit. Now trying to perversion of Uber. That

594
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: part of it, right, is to make it unusable so

595
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: that old people don't figure out.

596
00:30:59,440 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 3: How to use.

597
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 2: No.

598
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 3: No, it's to try and sell you as much as possible,

599
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 3: get as much growth adjacent Metroce's bullshit as possible, and

600
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 3: then flog it to the markets. And it works. And

601
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 3: it works so well, even though the product is worse,

602
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 3: even though customers are less happy, Yeah, because that doesn't

603
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 3: matter as long as number go up.

604
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: Yeah right, and they yeah, they stop paying attention. So

605
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: to get the growth, usually they have to build something

606
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: that pays attention to the user, like actually fulfills the user,

607
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: you know, interest or something the user wants. But the

608
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: second they get to you know, going public and answering

609
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: to Wall Street. It just becomes completely decoupled, and it

610
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: becomes a thing where they're only paying attention to the

611
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: people who are speaking for investors or writing, you know,

612
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: things for.

613
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 3: I have one other thing that's very sad. The real

614
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 3: decoupling was toward the end of the twenty ten, which

615
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 3: was when venture backstops realized, why don't we just do

616
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 3: this growth shit early? Why don't we just stop growing

617
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 3: at all costs as early as possible?

618
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: Right?

619
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 3: And that's where we are right now. That's why startup

620
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 3: investment is around AI. It's like search engine optimization, but

621
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 3: for venture capital, people are no longer building companies to

622
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 3: serve a market need. They're building companies that they can

623
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 3: sell to venture capital who can pump them full of

624
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 3: money so that they can sell to a bigger company.

625
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 3: And I realize this is all quite complex, but it

626
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 3: really comes down to this. People are no longer building companies,

627
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 3: or at least a large amount of them, aren't building

628
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 3: companies to sell something to a consumer. They are thinking,

629
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 3: how can I appear to have the growth metrics that

630
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 3: will get me enough money so I can grow this

631
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 3: company into something I can sell right, Yeah, and it

632
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 3: sounds very cynical, but it's what It's been happening for

633
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 3: a while. But it's now got to a point where

634
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 3: the shark, the shark has been jumped far too many times,

635
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 3: and people are noticing, they're very upset.

636
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: But it's being sold not to people, not to the

637
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: people who it's supposed to be serving, right, it's being

638
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: sold to this third party investor.

639
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 3: There's enough of a product so that a user isn't

640
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 3: just literally using nothing, though they did try with crypto,

641
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 3: by the way, to do it without that right that

642
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 3: companies had no product at all. It was just yeah,

643
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 3: look at the AI companies, these generative AI companies, Chat GPT.

644
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 3: Chat GPT legedly makes over billion dollars of revenue. Don't

645
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,239
Speaker 3: know what profit though they're not making any What does

646
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,959
Speaker 3: chat GPT do? No one could really answer, like, it

647
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 3: does a bunch of things kind of but why do

648
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 3: you need it?

649
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: Right? Right? General purposes. It's a general purpose technology, right,

650
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: I need.

651
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 3: It to eight billion dollars and this thing it generates

652
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 3: stuff that can be kind of useful, but also it sometimes.

653
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 5: Just lies, yeah, just making things up because sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,

654
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 5: No hallucinates okay, yes, which I mean it's actually like tripping,

655
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 5: and that gives it kind of a cool, fun drug

656
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 5: y vibe.

657
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 3: Well, I know when they use that tongue because it's

658
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 3: not technically lying because chat GPT doesn't know anything, right,

659
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,959
Speaker 3: it is it has been trained on data, but each

660
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 3: time it is generating an answer based on a dita set,

661
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 3: So it can't lie because it doesn't have a concept

662
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 3: of truth or information.

663
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 2: Yeah right, it's just yeah, it just it's figuring it

664
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 2: out as it goes along.

665
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: All. Yeah, so this whole process, Like I have not

666
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: been on the dating apps, but like reading that. That's

667
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: something that's been coming up more lately. Is that like

668
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: match Group I think is like match dot Com bought

669
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: all the dating apps and they are ultimately you know,

670
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: people who have been on them for years are like,

671
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: they are as bad as they've ever been right now.

672
00:34:54,440 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: And the companies are incentivized to, you know, basically get

673
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 1: you to pay for a version of their product that

674
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: costs money, that is a subscription service. So they give

675
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: you a free version that sucks, get you to pay

676
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: for a more expensive version. I guess that's the oldest capitalism.

677
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: But then like, they're also incentivised to keep you single,

678
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: like they you know, if you get married, they lose

679
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: two consumers.

680
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 3: I'm actually really glad you bought brought up dating apps

681
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 3: because they are the perfect rock economy company. Yeah, ostensibly

682
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 3: it makes sense they'd want to keep you on the

683
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 3: apps as much as possible. That using those apps, their

684
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 3: goal is to keep you on as long as possible

685
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 3: as with any app, So really their goal is to

686
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 3: fulfill the need of making personal connections. So I haven't

687
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 3: been on them over a year, like thankfully Engaged, Thank Christ.

688
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 3: It's horrifying out there. So glad. But these apps used

689
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 3: to be like Okayqubid used to be one where you'd

690
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 3: send longer messages. Hinch used to be we'd meet kind

691
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 3: of normal, weird people. Coffee Eats Bagel was just strange,

692
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 3: but it was better than Plenty of Fish, which was

693
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 3: a place where you got scammed. But nevertheless, these places

694
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 3: where they.

695
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: Made it actually is getting scammed from me. Yeah, ooh

696
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 1: my god, you took so much of my fucking money.

697
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 3: But by and large, these apps made their money off

698
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 3: of the premium subscription, which allowed you to do things

699
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 3: like send mold messages. Which made sense. And that makes

700
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 3: sense because you get freemium product and then you'd upgrade. However,

701
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 3: because these are all by a public company that needs

702
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 3: to show growth, growth, growth of revenue of users, what

703
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 3: have you, Well, they realized, what if we had a

704
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 3: bunch of micro transactions. So each of these apps has

705
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 3: some sort of paid for super like, which means you

706
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 3: can really show someone you like them, and then you

707
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 3: can pay a subscription so that you can send more messages,

708
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 3: do more likes. But all of them have basically copied

709
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 3: the Tinder model of the swipe bright Swhite Left. So

710
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 3: you're right, they do want to keep you single because

711
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 3: the only way out of them is to pay them

712
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 3: a shit ton of money. They don't hinge at the

713
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 3: very least. I know that they reserve your best matches

714
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 3: unless you pay for them, and they're extortion at the experienced,

715
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,240
Speaker 3: like two or three dollars per a rose or something.

716
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 3: And that was for the like all the like, normal

717
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 3: people who didn't have AI generated captions were on there. Yeah,

718
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 3: and it was just so straight Well I guess it

719
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 3: was an AI back in twenty twenty two. But nevertheless,

720
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 3: these companies now dating apps are no longer for dating,

721
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 3: therefore finding ways to convince people to spend as much

722
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,919
Speaker 3: money on them or trap them in an endless thing

723
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 3: where if you're anything less than Instagram level beautiful, you'll

724
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 3: have trouble meeting people. And it's so fucked up because

725
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,439
Speaker 3: you'd think that they would, you think that this would

726
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 3: affect them, but no, they're making more money than ever

727
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 3: because people have no other way of meeting other people.

728
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 3: Our society is not great at introducing you to new friends.

729
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 3: It's harder than ever. An adult friend Finder was not

730
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 3: the website I thought it would be. But it's horrifying

731
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,240
Speaker 3: because this is every app now. It's the same with Bumble,

732
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 3: It's same with Hinge, same with Tinder, Tinder as some

733
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 3: like five hundred dollars version. I don't know they just

734
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 3: I feel like they make these things up just to

735
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 3: get headlines. But I think it's all owned by Match, right, yes,

736
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 3: and it's all owned by like one company, right.

737
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: So you can't get out of there.

738
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,879
Speaker 2: There's there's just like this really interest, there's this disconnect

739
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 2: right where it's like, as consumers were like, yo, this

740
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 2: shit sucks, Like what the fuck happened?

741
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: Right?

742
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 2: But what are they gonna do, right, But then there's

743
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 2: like this level of insulation, right for the people that

744
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 2: are making the apps, and then the venture capital people

745
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 2: who are like, yo, I can make a ton of

746
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 2: money on this, and there's like this insulation like really

747
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 2: from I guess you know, there's like the market, which

748
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 2: is what they're they're like they have eyes towards that.

749
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 2: Then there's the people that are using the product they

750
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 2: could give a fuck about.

751
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 3: Tinder was one of the last quote unquote good startups.

752
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 3: I don't think it was because Sean rat is peculiar, fella,

753
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 3: but that was one made before the shift happened.

754
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: Right.

755
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 3: Tinder in its original form was swiping right and left.

756
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 3: But I don't even think it monetized at first, right.

757
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 2: But I mean, like you know, like and I've heard

758
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 2: you talk about this too, is that they're only going

759
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 2: by what's being encouraged and all. Obviously the investor class

760
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 2: is saying like, if you make the line go up,

761
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 2: we don't give a shit what you're doing. Just make

762
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 2: the fucking line go up.

763
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 3: Used to go up, money go up.

764
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 2: Yes, So how is it that you know, like, and

765
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 2: I think you've pointed, you know, it's sort of like,

766
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 2: partially it's because obviously investors they're gonna encourage it. And

767
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,879
Speaker 2: also the media is not really really critical of what's

768
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 2: going on. What's like the consumer piece? Is it just

769
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,919
Speaker 2: to merely say like, well, we're gonna boycott this thing?

770
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 2: Or what like is or is this completely this sort

771
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,399
Speaker 2: of all of this activity is happening on another plane

772
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 2: of existence where that everyday consumer is like, dude, I'm

773
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 2: completely at the fucking will of these greedy.

774
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 3: Well, what it is is monopolies, right, it's monopolies. And

775
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,720
Speaker 3: the people charged on cass What do you think flying

776
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 3: sucks so much? Because all of the plane companies, like,

777
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,399
Speaker 3: we can fuck them on a certain level, we could,

778
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 3: we can all agree that these people are a little

779
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 3: pig to make these little pigs.

780
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: Pain, What are you gonna do? How are you gonna date? Right?

781
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 3: How are you gonna date? If you want to use Hinge,

782
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,879
Speaker 3: same deal, coffee, Meeks, Bagel, same deal, Tinder, same deal.

783
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 3: All these apps copy each other, and all of these

784
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 3: apps move, they all normalize towards a hole where they

785
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 3: all kind of look the same but have a slight

786
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 3: enough difference, and then people will get all of them

787
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 3: because they have no other bloody choice. Google Search, What

788
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 3: you're gonna do. You're gonna use dug dug dough. You

789
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 3: can use bin right, idiot, No way, what you're gonna

790
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 3: do that. You're gonna use Uber. You can use lyft

791
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 3: because that's your real only choice.

792
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: That's so grim.

793
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 3: It gets grimmer, It gets grimmer. Think about your restaurants.

794
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 3: You know that those door to ash and Uber eats orders,

795
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 3: most of these people they have to give up, like

796
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 3: twenty thirty percent the restaurants have to give up to

797
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 3: the delivery apps. What they're gonna don't have delivery right right?

798
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:56,720
Speaker 3: And there are companies fighting that, but consumers don't have choices.

799
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 3: There is not strong anti trust in this country. No, no,

800
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 3: they stopped Spirit and Jet Blue merging. That was actually good.

801
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,879
Speaker 3: But otherwise, the hell else are you gonna do? You're

802
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 3: gonna use another one of the dating apps that don't exist.

803
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 3: You're gonna use another delivery app. You're gonna use a

804
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 3: delivery app which has less stuff on it? Oh, why

805
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 3: don't you use Cavea? Oh wait, Caviar was bought by

806
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 3: door Dash.

807
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: Right, what about post Mates?

808
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 3: No, that's ubery and the Postmates part is gone it's

809
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 3: and all of this is making everything worse. Amazon is

810
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 3: full of nonsense. Now, Amazon is full of all of

811
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 3: these terrible Chinese knockoffs which had names like Google Spook,

812
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 3: and then you look and they all have five thousand

813
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 3: and five star reviews because they've broken the system. Because

814
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 3: Amazon doesn't really care. Amazon cares. You buy stuff and

815
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 3: it's cheap enough, and they can do.

816
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: It, turning my couch from Google Spook from Google spook

817
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: me with the lead covering.

818
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 3: That's the thing. What you're gonna do? Where are you

819
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 3: gonna find stuff online? Walmart, like I said, Wulmont is

820
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 3: now using the party sellers.

821
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 1: Right like it's yeah, it really feels like it's broken out.

822
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: But beyond tech, let's uh, let's take a quick break

823
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:11,760
Speaker 1: because I want to I just want to talk about

824
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: how it feels like this is part of something bigger

825
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: that's leaked out into basically everything. We'll be right back,

826
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: and we're back. We're back. And you know the thing

827
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: about the companies, the people making the decisions deciding what

828
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: these products actually are and how they interact with the consumers,

829
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:49,919
Speaker 1: like that being completely insulated from the actual people using

830
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: the products or viewing them as piggies who we don't

831
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: mind if they get sucked out of a out of

832
00:42:55,239 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 1: a door that pops off. The bowing jet feels like

833
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: it's of a piece with like you'll read these articles

834
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: about how economists are baffled, and they're like the old

835
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: rules of macroeconomics no longer applied, Like just look at

836
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: the pandemic and the you know, there was supposed to

837
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:21,919
Speaker 1: be this massive recession because fucking everything shut down, and

838
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 1: yet we kept these good economic metrics throughout or like

839
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 1: the you know, the stock market never fully crashed on us,

840
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: and we're we're baffled, and it just feels like the

841
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: whole thing is part of the system where the people

842
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 1: who are at the very top and who are like

843
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 1: involved in the stock market are completely insulated from everything

844
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: going on below. And yes, it's all like it's that

845
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 1: as much as it is like a problem with tech,

846
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,399
Speaker 1: and tech has made it has been like the thing

847
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: that has allowed the disease to spread more quickly. It

848
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: feels like it's good old fashioned just like yeah, like

849
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: monopolies and like all the shit there was a problem

850
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: in the early twentieth century, late nineteenth century. It's just

851
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 1: like you just have these people who are making all

852
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: the important influential decisions who are one hundred percent just

853
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 1: decoupled from the people who their decisions affect.

854
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 3: Yes, and that is the overwhelming problem and a symptom

855
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 3: of an economy ruled by weak labor standards and we

856
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 3: anti trust right and the market, you're right, is a problem.

857
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 3: Outside of tech, Boeing being a great example of a

858
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 3: company that just wanted basic safety, Tesla another great example.

859
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 3: They're not they are not a tech company. They are

860
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 3: a car company. Elon Musky's trying to claim they're an

861
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 3: AI company because he's just a crook and a lion,

862
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 3: that's all he's capable of doing.

863
00:44:58,360 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: Right.

864
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 3: Tesla is a great sample as well of just like

865
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 3: a stalk completely decoupled for it. It's a meme stock

866
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 3: at this point, but.

867
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: It's such a successful me. I mean, it's a meme

868
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: stock that has made is the richest person in the world, right,

869
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 1: Like that that was yeah, But can you just talk

870
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: about can you talk about like what how people perceive

871
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: Elon Musk? Like my dad will say to me, like

872
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 1: Elon Musk is, like, I mean that guy must be

873
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: so smart, right he Like I've even heard this from

874
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: like people who pay attention, like work in finance, and

875
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: are like, I mean the guy disrupted like three major

876
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: markets in the course of like a couple. You know,

877
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 1: they're the I think the public image of him is

878
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 1: this like Tony Stark, you know, once a generation genius,

879
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: and like that is how he like he invented Tesla

880
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 1: in his garage or some shit, Whereas like, you know,

881
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 1: he how did he actually grow his fortune? What is

882
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 1: the thing that he's good at? I think you've like

883
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: compared him to the CEO of Google, Like they're good

884
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,320
Speaker 1: at the same thing, which is creating the illusion of growth.

885
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 3: That Elon knew is a marketer and his heart he

886
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 3: is an operator and a marketer. He is good at

887
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 3: mobilizing capital and good at convincing people to put money

888
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 3: into other things unless it's a consumer product, right. He

889
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 3: has never done well with any kind of consumer product.

890
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 3: Car He has done like largely because he knows how

891
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 3: to hire people, or at least he did before he

892
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 3: went crazy. He has always been kind of a shithead.

893
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 3: That's also an important thing to know. He has never

894
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 3: been a great guy. The myth of Elon Musk being

895
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 3: the super genius that invented Tesla is also wrong. He

896
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 3: did not someone I forget who there's a cup front for.

897
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 3: There's a couple of people who actually designed Tesla's and

898
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 3: found at the company. Elon came in with money. He

899
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 3: was just he invested and you know what he invested well,

900
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 3: and he's been a champion for this, but he's also

901
00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 3: got lax labor standards, horrible racism problem over it. This

902
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 3: has been what he dogpiled the report called Aaron Bieber

903
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 3: in like twenty seventeen. I believe he has been this

904
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 3: guy forever. But what Elon is good at is hype.

905
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 3: And he realized in like twenty thirteen that the press

906
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 3: would pretty much print anything he said forever. And hears

907
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 3: that again and again and again in a way that

908
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 3: should not be legal, right, Like, I'm actually really like

909
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 3: that if we had a strong enough sec to actually like,

910
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,879
Speaker 3: surely there is a side where it's just a guy

911
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,879
Speaker 3: being like, yes, so we put the first neuralink chip

912
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 3: inside a person, they can now see the future, And

913
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 3: it was like, yeah, let me just put down to

914
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:40,320
Speaker 3: the NBC dot com that sounds.

915
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 1: True to me.

916
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 3: This guy is a liar, But people are printed his

917
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 3: shit forever. He promised Autopilot like three years before it

918
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 3: even got close to existing. He has made up stuff

919
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,240
Speaker 3: about Tesla for over a decade. He is just a liar,

920
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 3: but he's realized that this is how shit works, that

921
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 3: people are just like people will just ball for this ship,

922
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 3: and people will why his lies. He hasn't really corrected

923
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 3: the record that he isn't the inventor of Tesla, despite

924
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 3: the fact that he didn't invent Tesla. He didn't invent

925
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 3: any of the SpaceX stuff, right, he didn't invent the

926
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 3: Starling thing. He didn't invent any of this stuff. He's

927
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 3: just the hype man and that was better before he

928
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 3: was Like what if I wanted to just posted something

929
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 3: Hitler adjacent on Twitter, that'd be great.

930
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: Like he's just I.

931
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 3: Actually genuinely think as well. People turning against the tech industry,

932
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 3: people being anger at tech, have done so because they've

933
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 3: kind of seen what he is, what Elon is, the

934
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,720
Speaker 3: kind of person he really really is, and how little

935
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 3: value he actually has, and also they've seen how poorly

936
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,240
Speaker 3: he's run Twitter, right, right.

937
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, is there like you know, like with all this,

938
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 2: like we all know basically there's just it's all this

939
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 2: illusory shit. It's just to give the like the feeling

940
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: that there's growth, but not offering a product that actually

941
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 2: drives it and the and people are investing more and

942
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 2: more but into something that like doesn't exist. What does

943
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 2: it look like when it, like the market corrects or

944
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 2: the bubble pops or will it or they're so deep

945
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:05,359
Speaker 2: in it, like, because I'm trying to like, what does

946
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 2: that reckoning look like for people like Elon Musk and

947
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,439
Speaker 2: things like that Musk less.

948
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 3: So though I think Twitter at some point will have

949
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:17,280
Speaker 3: a reckoning, I think it is inevitable that this company

950
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 3: burns more money than it makes, and also with the

951
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 3: fact that Elon now has to replace multiple members of

952
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 3: the board of Tesla, right But the thing that I

953
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 3: think is going to be the reckoning is artificial intelligence

954
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 3: because right now they're trying to put generative AI into everything,

955
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 3: a product that no one really knows the reason why

956
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:35,280
Speaker 3: it exists, but they're putting it into everything.

957
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 1: And the way that.

958
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 3: This is growing revenue is Microsoft invested in open ai

959
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 3: and Google invested in Anthropic, the two largest model companies,

960
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 3: So that's guaranteed revenue those companies have to use them

961
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 3: now bookable cloud revenue. As the AI industry grows, so

962
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 3: does their revenue guaranteed, no antitrust law to stop them

963
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,879
Speaker 3: from literally just investing in a company that would then

964
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,400
Speaker 3: invest the money that they just invested back in the company.

965
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 3: It's a horrible circle. The reason that I think this

966
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 3: might fall apart is because they're also scaling up their

967
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 3: data centers to match this demand. Because AI is extremely compute,

968
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 3: sent demanding. It's extremely demanding. You cannot just run it

969
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 3: on your computer at home. You need specialized chips, and

970
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 3: you need a lot of them. And so as they

971
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 3: massively scale this system that's deeply unprofitable, Eventually people are

972
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:25,720
Speaker 3: just going to not use it if it's not useful,

973
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 3: if it really isn't actually useful. So suddenly you're going

974
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 3: to have companies like Microsoft and Google that invested billions

975
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 3: and billions of dollars and hectares of real estate for

976
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 3: data centers, and they're going to find themselves with their

977
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 3: dicks out. They're gonna be like, oh shit, we put

978
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 3: all this money into something that no one wants. I

979
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,959
Speaker 3: think that will have a severe enough correction that things

980
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,360
Speaker 3: will get slightly back on track or it destroys the

981
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 3: entire tech ecosystem for a few years and everything's kind

982
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 3: of screwed.

983
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 1: Hil. There's a big.

984
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 3: Chance of that because this stuff doesn't make any money.

985
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 3: None of these things are profitable, none of them, not

986
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 3: one of them. And if users, if users stop using it,

987
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 3: even if they're forced to, what's left all of this

988
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 3: real estate, all of these data centers in videos market cap,

989
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 3: Where the hell does all this money go? It doesn't

990
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 3: go anywhere. It will affect the tech industry and it

991
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 3: will be bad. And I think people are laughing. People

992
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 3: are kind of done with Generative AI already, Like a

993
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 3: regular person does not know why they need. Chad gbt

994
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 3: the seven million dollar Super Bowl commercial for Microsoft's co

995
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 3: Pilot AI. They had a thing in there where it's like,

996
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,800
Speaker 3: do me a logo of a classic truck, Mike's truck.

997
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:42,800
Speaker 3: If you actually type that into chat into Microsoft Copilot

998
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 3: and chat GPT. Generative AI can't do letters.

999
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: It can't do.

1000
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 3: Letters, so it's like massa but it looks like a

1001
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 3: thuluyah And it's another thing. And there's another thing in

1002
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 3: there where they're like, oh, do the code for my

1003
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 3: open world game. These aren't ideas. No one's doing this,

1004
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:00,320
Speaker 3: These aren't normal people things that people. No one's all that,

1005
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 3: and was like, wow, I can now make an open,

1006
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 3: woke game. No one's not fucking stupid, or at least

1007
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 3: if they all, they'll do it and then nothing won't happen.

1008
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 1: So I remember this one story where I was like, like,

1009
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 1: I talked to somebody who's familiar with Marcus was like

1010
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 1: so much of like the market growth I forget what

1011
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,240
Speaker 1: year it was, but was like propped up by AI stuff,

1012
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 1: and so I was like looking, I was like, so

1013
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 1: what does that mean? Because nobody really knows what AI is?

1014
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 1: How is it being propped up? Like how how is

1015
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 1: that translating to value? And like one of the metrics

1016
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 1: that they were using was like all about a user

1017
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: adoption of chat GPT and how it was like the

1018
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 1: fastest adoption, like faster than TikTok, faster than any social

1019
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 1: media up to this point. And it turned out to

1020
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: be bullshit, Like it was internal numbers that were bullshit

1021
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: that they were lying about. But the thing that was

1022
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: exciting and that got people excited enough to like invest

1023
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 1: money was the lie. And so that's still the thing

1024
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: that just lasts. Like it really feels like in addition

1025
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 1: to you know, the them being the input of information

1026
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 1: coming from the investors, like they're also controlling it so

1027
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:18,759
Speaker 1: that no bad news gets circled into that system. And

1028
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 1: it's just this like bullshit economy that just like cycles

1029
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: back and forth in the top and like won't it

1030
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: won't allow that input of information that all of this

1031
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: is bullshit, and then people aren't using it.

1032
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 3: Really, I feel like what's going to happen is this push,

1033
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 3: this big lie that you're correct about, by the way,

1034
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 3: is going to have something bad happen as a result

1035
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 3: of it. If you remember, back in twenty twelve, Night Capital,

1036
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 3: Night Capital was a hedge fund that, due to an

1037
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 3: incorrectly installed algorithm, invested billions of dollars in stocks it

1038
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:54,800
Speaker 3: could not afford. It lost them about four hundred and

1039
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 3: ten million dollars. They ended up having to sell for parts. Yeah,

1040
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 3: something like that to people time. Yeah, well it wasn't

1041
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 3: even falling the people. It was just it never stopped buying.

1042
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 3: That was It's a quite complex thing, but the algorithm

1043
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 3: was off, so it didn't have appointment. It stopped buying stocks.

1044
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 3: It just bought way too much. Haven't we all been there?

1045
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:18,799
Speaker 1: But something like yes, I feel sick, something.

1046
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 3: Like that is going to happen though. Yeah, and Gemini,

1047
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 3: which is Google's generative AI, they had a big problem

1048
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 3: where you typed in what do the founding fathers look like?

1049
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,800
Speaker 3: And it generated a black guy, a black like the

1050
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 3: concept of like a Chinese George Washington is terrifying to

1051
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 3: be these woke, like anti woke guys. But that was

1052
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 3: actually significant enough that summed up a shy this year

1053
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 3: of Google had to say something about it. I think

1054
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,760
Speaker 3: something bigger and worse happens with someone who adopts generative

1055
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 3: AI that destroys the company. I think it it does

1056
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 3: something so significant that that scares the market. Because there

1057
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 3: was a Wall Street journal story a few weeks ago

1058
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 3: where they were saying, anthropic and open, we're having trouble

1059
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 3: selling their stuff because of the hallucinations, because these mistakes

1060
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 3: it was making. And in the article it's great you

1061
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:09,840
Speaker 3: can see the journalists trying to be like, so, how

1062
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 3: are they going to fix this? And the quotes were like, well,

1063
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 3: at one point, we'll tell the model to not say

1064
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 3: anything if it doesn't know for sure, and then the

1065
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 3: next thing with someone saying yeah. But the problem is

1066
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 3: if you tell an ai that sometimes it will just

1067
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 3: stop answering at all. Go no, mate, I don't trust

1068
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 3: myself right now. It's like taking someone's keys away when

1069
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 3: they've been drinking. But that's the thing. At some point,

1070
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 3: people are going to notice this doesn't do anything. This

1071
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 3: is not They want this to be the next there's

1072
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:43,280
Speaker 3: a phraser. No one ever gets fired for buying IBM, right.

1073
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 3: They want this to be that, but it isn't useful,

1074
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 3: and every person who's a big fan of it, it's like,

1075
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 3: well it will be and then you ask how, and

1076
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 3: they're like, I am really sorry. I got to take

1077
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 3: a phone call. I'll be back in three hours. Please

1078
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 3: don't wait here. I do not have an answer, And

1079
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 3: it's just I also think that this is over willingly.

1080
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,280
Speaker 3: This kind of stuff is becoming more and more obvious

1081
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 3: for the regular people, and they're going to get angry.

1082
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 3: I'm angry about it.

1083
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think everybody should be angry about it.

1084
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 1: I just don't know, like it feels like they have

1085
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 1: built this system to insulate them from our anger at

1086
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 1: this point, and at a certain point, I don't know

1087
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 1: what it looks like what the what the event is

1088
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 1: that makes it so they can no longer ignore that anger,

1089
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 1: because yeah, I'm definitely a product of having grown up

1090
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: in this system, and you know, my first memory is

1091
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: being like Clintonian, you know, bullshit, and just like not

1092
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 1: being able to imagine something different. But something different is

1093
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:46,240
Speaker 1: definitely coming.

1094
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 3: I think that it's just you're going to start seeing

1095
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 3: the Facebook advertising model breakdown. Yeah, online advertising is becoming

1096
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 3: less profitable and less useful. As though as that starts dying,

1097
00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:59,359
Speaker 3: the tech industry is going to realize that they've got

1098
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 3: a big problem when when Meta's market cap goes down

1099
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 3: and when AI stops generating revenue, when it stops being

1100
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 3: the buzzy thing that you have to install, that you

1101
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 3: have to integrate even if you don't know what it does.

1102
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 3: What happens, then what's up? Mark Benioff. Every time, like

1103
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 3: I think, at least once a year we'll say that

1104
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 3: AI is now in Salesforce, and he has done so

1105
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 3: since like twenty sixteen. Every year Right Sales Sports claims

1106
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,959
Speaker 3: that has AI in it. It is just a giant con.

1107
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 3: At times, it feels like that, and it feels like

1108
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 3: I know it sounds a bit conspiratal, but it feels

1109
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 3: like they're laughing at us on some level.

1110
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yeah, I feel like they're also scared, right,

1111
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:39,920
Speaker 1: Like they they should need to, so they need to

1112
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 1: allow Google to become a monopoly and like, you know,

1113
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 1: just abuse the smaller companies to remain profitable because Google

1114
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: is too big to fail, because all of these companies

1115
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 1: are already like that lie that you're talking about, that

1116
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 1: like that crashes the economy, like and that is the

1117
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 1: thing that everybody's on the f that's resident down to

1118
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 1: you know, the top point two percent of the economy

1119
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 1: like can't allow to happen.

1120
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 3: But even then, Google doesn't need to operate like this.

1121
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 3: They make like ten billion dollars of profit quarter, right,

1122
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 3: they don't need to run like this. The economy doesn't

1123
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 3: have to run like this. Tech companies were plenty profitable before,

1124
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 3: and there are ways to do that.

1125
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 1: Uber.

1126
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 3: The thing that really frustrates me about Uber is had

1127
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 3: Uber been done slightly differently and much slower, it could

1128
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 3: have been the single most disruptive and important tech company

1129
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 3: of all time. Had they done everything they did but

1130
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 3: made it so that this is the crazy thing. Had

1131
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 3: they done like labor rates baked into it would have

1132
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 3: made them less money, would have made them slow. But

1133
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 3: just charge them, charge people more. People would have paid more.

1134
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:53,959
Speaker 3: You would have created a new class of employee. Yeah,

1135
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 3: one covered one protected a massive change in labor. That

1136
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 3: company would have been worth several trillion dollars just to Yeah,

1137
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 3: would have taken them twenty years to get there, but

1138
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:06,439
Speaker 3: they would have been. Instead, we have this massively unprofitable,

1139
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 3: labor screwing piece of shit company that has the monopoly

1140
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 3: on cabs because cabs were built on another kind of

1141
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 3: exploitative system, the medallion system, right right, And it's just

1142
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 3: things can change, And indeed, I think they will through

1143
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 3: awareness alone, because when I did the first Rock Economy episode,

1144
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 3: I've got so many emails people being like, oh shit,

1145
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 3: I didn't know that. I feel that more people knowing

1146
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 3: will put that pressure around there. People will stop using

1147
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 3: these products, and as users stop being interested in like

1148
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 3: these dogshit products, things will change.

1149
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:41,439
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1150
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just more about creating enough of the awareness

1151
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 2: around it, because I think most people get caught up

1152
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:49,439
Speaker 2: in the razzle dazzle of it all, and you see,

1153
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 2: like even the people who you know, like it's like,

1154
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 2: we're a country that's ran by older people who don't

1155
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 2: understand technology, so they're not with they're not understanding what

1156
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 2: the borders should be or the guard reil should be.

1157
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 2: So that creates this environment for people to just completely

1158
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 2: shift the thinking to be like, rather than you know,

1159
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 2: like making a product, what we need to do is

1160
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,880
Speaker 2: like sell one of those companies, because that's how people

1161
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 2: talk and it's not about making the thing. It's like, yo, man,

1162
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 2: we've got to create a company we can sell and

1163
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 2: that's just it. And because of that, there's no value

1164
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 2: in it, and it merely just becomes about the act

1165
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 2: of making said company and then flogging it to side

1166
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 2: and a ton of money.

1167
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 1: I will wrap it.

1168
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 3: Up because I know I've gone on and on about this,

1169
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 3: but the actual thing that I think this comes back

1170
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:33,760
Speaker 3: to is a societal problem with the concept of business itself.

1171
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 3: I think that they we have lionized big companies over

1172
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:38,920
Speaker 3: good companies.

1173
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I go.

1174
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 3: I run a small PR firm and I have in

1175
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:44,520
Speaker 3: people for years like you need to scale, and I'm

1176
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 3: always up why and they're like, because that's what big

1177
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 3: good company is big? Yeah, it isn't a big we

1178
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 3: lionize managers and management. But I think especially the pandemic

1179
01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 3: proof there, it's very obvious that the managers and the

1180
01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 3: CEOs don't do the work right. Yeah, and I think

1181
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 3: there's a labor awakening. It's slow, but it's happening that

1182
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 3: will change almost every step of everything.

1183
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 1: But talking about now, this whole conversation has been you know,

1184
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:14,919
Speaker 1: having worked at and run Cracked back in the day

1185
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 1: and just you know, it started out as this website

1186
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 1: that had these really good articles because we had like

1187
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 1: a handful of really talented people, and we kept like

1188
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 1: bringing these talented people into focus on making the good product.

1189
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 1: But there was also these people who were like focused

1190
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 1: on doing the ads in the sidebar and like making

1191
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 1: those ads trick you into thinking you were clicking on content.

1192
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 1: And that is what the entire Internet became. Like the

1193
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:46,680
Speaker 1: people who made the content got choked out, and the

1194
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 1: people who do the sidebar fake ads that trick you

1195
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:54,440
Speaker 1: into thinking you're clicking on content where you're actually clicking

1196
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 1: on something that is going to fuck your computer.

1197
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 3: And yeah, you know who go off of Reddit, a

1198
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:07,240
Speaker 3: community entirely made up of free contributions. Sam Altman right,

1199
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:11,440
Speaker 3: he made four hundred million dollars. Yeah, like Dad is

1200
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 3: the guy, not the moderators, not the redditors who made

1201
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 3: the Internet better for their redditing. I guess you'd call

1202
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 3: that no, Sam Altman a guy whose only role at

1203
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 3: that company was to put money in at one point.

1204
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 3: This is something that I feel like if more people

1205
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 3: are aware of, they will turn on the tech industry

1206
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 3: and they bloody well should Yeah.

1207
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, Yeah, such a pleasure having you, man. Where

1208
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 1: can people find you? Follow you? Read more from you?

1209
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 3: So you can find me on x the everything app

1210
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 3: at ed zetron, eating the I t r o N

1211
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:49,560
Speaker 3: everything appy, Find me on blue Sky, zitron, dot bskuy,

1212
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:52,480
Speaker 3: dot social or dot app I forget. Just type in

1213
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 3: zitron I should come up and you can find podcast

1214
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 3: better offline dot com click podcast and it's got all

1215
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 3: your links that you could need and the newsletters. Where's

1216
01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 3: your aunt dot at?

1217
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 1: Amazing? Is there a work of media that you've been enjoying.

1218
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 3: I'd been listening a lot Queens of the Stoneages in

1219
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:11,480
Speaker 3: Times New Roman, which I realized as a band I've

1220
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 3: now mentioned too much on this podcast, came out late

1221
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 3: last year. It's an amazing album on midd last year.

1222
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:19,280
Speaker 3: It's an amazing album, but I stopped listening to it

1223
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 3: for a few months because I'd massively overplayed it and

1224
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:23,919
Speaker 3: then just got right back into it. I love that band,

1225
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:26,240
Speaker 3: so it's like their second best album. It's really something.

1226
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:29,600
Speaker 2: What number album was that that cat was at the

1227
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 2: first seven? Oh wow, man, okay, I think after the

1228
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 2: one that Dave Grohl drummed on.

1229
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:37,000
Speaker 1: That was sort of the when I stopped.

1230
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was song the Deaf that was the second one.

1231
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:42,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, amazing. Miles, where can people find you?

1232
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:43,440
Speaker 1: What's work media you've been enjoying?

1233
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 2: Find me on the AT based life forms at Miles

1234
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:51,680
Speaker 2: of Gray. Yeah, and then you can just find me,

1235
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:54,560
Speaker 2: you know, doing that stuff there. Also, if you like basketball,

1236
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 2: check out Jack and Ice basketball podcast. Miles and Jack

1237
01:03:57,200 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 2: got mad boosties. If you like ninety ifiance, catched me

1238
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 2: on my ninety Fancy podcast for twenty Day Fiance, I

1239
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 2: just switched the one with the FSA.

1240
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 3: It was horrible.

1241
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 2: Oh man, the way George Man he's he gets it criminal.

1242
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah, oh yeah, he's a stammer too. Now

1243
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 2: she's a bodybuilder, so you know, shout out in FISA

1244
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 2: or at least was doing that. Let's see a tweet

1245
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 2: that I like Natalie at jbfaneted, I don't care if

1246
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:24,479
Speaker 2: I have microplastics in my body. You know what else

1247
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 2: is in there, love, joy, kindness. They will take care

1248
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 2: of the microplastics.

1249
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 1: Just a grim tweet.

1250
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 2: Because there was a recent study that was like, there's

1251
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 2: not a placenta on Earth that doesn't have microplastics.

1252
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 1: Microplastics. Yeah, yeah, we'll plastic, We'll plastic. Yum, yum, yum. Yep.

1253
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 1: All right. You can find me on Twitter at Jack

1254
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 1: Underscore O'Brien. I enjoyed this tweet. John Frankensteiner on March

1255
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 1: second tweeted, Happy lou Reed Day. And it's an interview

1256
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 1: with Vulture where Vulture sure said serious as impending merger

1257
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 1: with XM is anticipated to boost earnings, do you own

1258
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:09,240
Speaker 1: any stock in the company? And lou Reid responded, what

1259
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 1: are you a fucking asshole? I'm here telling you the

1260
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:14,480
Speaker 1: truth about music, and you want to know if I

1261
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:19,000
Speaker 1: have stock in the fucking radio, you fucking piece of shit?

1262
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 1: What did I do to deserve that?

1263
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 3: Can I read one that's thematically relevant as well?

1264
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:26,120
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1265
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:31,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's from atdril of course. Yeah, yeah, Ai, sorry,

1266
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 3: I'm not allowed to speculate upon the sexuality of nineteen

1267
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 3: seventies game show hosts me. This is like talking to

1268
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 3: the smartest man in the world.

1269
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:46,920
Speaker 1: Holy shit, you're so smart. Oh my god, do that

1270
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:47,800
Speaker 1: you do that?

1271
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 3: Uh?

1272
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore Brian.

1273
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist. We're

1274
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 1: at the Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook

1275
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:00,640
Speaker 1: fan page on a website daily zei dot com, where

1276
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 1: we post our episodes and our footnote no when we

1277
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:06,400
Speaker 1: link off to the information that we talked about in

1278
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 1: today's episode, as well as a song that we think

1279
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:13,000
Speaker 1: you might enjoy mine. Oh, well, do you think people.

1280
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 2: Might enjoy I mistakenly thought that, you know, the school

1281
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 2: Boy C's album Blue Lips came out on Wear Blue

1282
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 2: Awareness Day, which was about raising colon cancer awareness Aaron so.

1283
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:25,280
Speaker 2: But either way, the album did come out, and I

1284
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 2: think it's a fantastic album. It's different than his other albums.

1285
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 2: It's I would say it's it's it's his to Pimp

1286
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 2: a Butterfly because it's not just full of trunk exploding

1287
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 2: like you know, just you know bangers, but this track

1288
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:40,680
Speaker 2: the the whole album's great, but I'm just gonna point

1289
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 2: this one out.

1290
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 1: It's called pig Feet.

1291
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 2: Check it out. It's featuring Childish Major.

1292
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 1: This is from.

1293
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Speaker 2: The school wi y album Blue Lips, So yeah, get

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Speaker 2: into the whole album.

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Speaker 1: Get into the whole again. We will link off to

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Speaker 1: that in the footnotes. The Daily these Guys is the

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Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, My Heart Radio,

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Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio ap Apple podcast, or wherever you listen

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Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. That is going to do it

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Speaker 1: for us this morning, back this afternoon to tell you

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Speaker 1: what's trending, and we'll talk to you all done. Fight

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Speaker 1: up the Raider Nation