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Speaker 1: Hello, fellow conspiracy realist. Quick disclaimer before we dive into

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Speaker 1: today's conversation with Paco de lay On. The following interview

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Speaker 1: contains at times strong language that may not be suitable

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Speaker 1: for all audiences. Still, we get to some fascinating places.

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Speaker 1: We go in many directions here and we can't wait

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Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts on weird finance.

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Speaker 2: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 2: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 2: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 2: production of Iheartrading.

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Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.

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Speaker 4: Our colleague Noel can't be here today, but we'll be

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Speaker 4: rejoining us very shortly.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 1: super producer, Paul Controlled decands. Most importantly are you You

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Speaker 1: are here? And that makes this the stuff they don't want.

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Speaker 3: You to know.

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Speaker 1: Matt. We have often talked about money, about economics on

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Speaker 1: the macro micro level here on the show, and one

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Speaker 1: thing that we have continually encountered is the finances weird?

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Speaker 1: Can we say that? Can we can?

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Speaker 5: We?

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Speaker 1: Can we say finance gets a little weird sometimes.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, money is weird.

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Speaker 4: Money is a religion, right, We've established this, We figured

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Speaker 4: that out a long time ago. It's it's weird as

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Speaker 4: heck it's but it's also vitally important for each of us,

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Speaker 4: everybody to get a handle on our own finances and

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Speaker 4: to understand the larger financial ecosystem that exists out there.

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Speaker 4: So because we're swimming in it, there's nothing you can

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Speaker 4: do to not swim in it, unless you know, you

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Speaker 4: really really escape out into the wilderness somewhere, which, you know,

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Speaker 4: good on you if you can figure out how to

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Speaker 4: do that sustainableity, and.

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Speaker 1: If there's still wilderness left by the time you get

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Speaker 1: out there. But of course, you know, Matt, you make

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Speaker 1: the nixelent point. It reminds me of David Foster Wallace

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Speaker 1: in a bit like that commencement speech where he says,

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Speaker 1: what is water? It's a story about a fish. Look,

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Speaker 1: I promise it's good. I promise it's a good win.

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Speaker 1: We are not here to talk about fish today, though.

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Speaker 1: We are here to examine the world, the concept, the

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Speaker 1: implications right of finance on a macro micro level, and

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Speaker 1: we are not doing it alone because, as we have

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Speaker 1: clearly established, we are not financial experts. However, we are

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Speaker 1: immensely fortunate to be joined today with someone who is

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Speaker 1: the author, the ill, the creator of the podcast literally

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Speaker 1: named Weird Finance. Paco de Leon is here with us. Paco,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for sitting through that intro and

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Speaker 1: joining us today.

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Speaker 6: Thank you, fellas for having me. I'm excited to be

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Speaker 6: chatting with you about the weird world of money and

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Speaker 6: human beings inside of it.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, we got weird with it real quick. We're

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Speaker 4: doing that just in honor of you and the show Foco.

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Speaker 4: But you know, you're not just an author, You're not

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Speaker 4: just a podcast host. You are a founder of multiple things, companies, entities.

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Speaker 4: One of them is the hell Yeah Group, another one

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Speaker 4: is hell Yeah Bookkeeping, and on the website the Hellyeahgroup

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Speaker 4: dot com. You describe yourself, or at least your past experience,

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Speaker 4: as being a debt collector, a financial wellness planner, and

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Speaker 4: having all of these various jobs in the world of money.

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Speaker 4: Can you tell us a little bit about your background

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Speaker 4: just way back when when you were learning about for

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Speaker 4: the first time.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely, I love launching this like tiny little grenade into conversations.

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Speaker 6: When I tell people that I used to be a

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Speaker 6: debt collector for a pretty big bank. And you know,

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Speaker 6: I decided to get my degree in finance frankly because

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Speaker 6: one my time was running out, and two I am

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Speaker 6: the oldest, eldest child of immigrant parents, and I figured

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Speaker 6: I should choose something practical. I don't want them to

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Speaker 6: worry about me, right, I want them to know that

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Speaker 6: I'll always be employable. And I was like, business, seems fine.

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Speaker 6: So I studied finance and then suddenly I was like, oh, man,

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Speaker 6: I should probably get a job in this industry. It

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Speaker 6: was two thousand and six, and you know, I didn't

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Speaker 6: have an uncle who worked at Goldman Sachs to give

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Speaker 6: me some kind of internship. So I went online and

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Speaker 6: I looked for jobs, and frankly, I was going to

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Speaker 6: just try to be a bank teller. I thought that

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Speaker 6: seems fine. Couldn't get that job. Eventually I found a

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Speaker 6: job that was called credit manager. That doesn't sound debt collector.

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Speaker 6: So I go into this cattle call of an interview

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Speaker 6: where literally people are in line, standing in line, and

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Speaker 6: then you go into this you have this one to

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Speaker 6: one with another debt collector. They're like higher up and

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Speaker 6: you literally have to role play trying to collect money

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Speaker 6: from this person. It was so awkward. I was so

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Speaker 6: terrible at it. I hate confrontation. I'm not a confrontational

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Speaker 6: person and I try to avoid it.

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Speaker 1: They put you in an audition. Yes, I'm sorry to interrupt,

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Speaker 1: but that's.

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Speaker 6: I had to audition. I was terrible at it. I

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Speaker 6: was like, for sure, I'm not getting this job, but

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Speaker 6: they gave it to me. So joke was on them.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's interesting.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So wait, it sounds like then there are there

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Speaker 1: may be a Venn diagram between people who have acting

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Speaker 1: or improv classes and uh, people who get people who

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Speaker 1: get involved in what was what was the euphemism credit management?

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Speaker 1: Were you what was entering that field? Like?

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Speaker 6: It was super weird because when you get the job,

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Speaker 6: the first thing that you have to do is they

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Speaker 6: bring you into a classroom setting with the whole class

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Speaker 6: that gets hired with you. So there's like, I don't

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Speaker 6: know thirty of us, and there's a whole entire month,

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Speaker 6: four weeks where they're just teaching you about how this

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Speaker 6: world works. They're like, here's how we name these accounts,

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Speaker 6: here's the two different systems you'll be working on. So

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Speaker 6: you do four weeks of training and then you just

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Speaker 6: you get on the phones and somebody sits next to

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Speaker 6: you and they're trying to help you fumble through these

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Speaker 6: awkward conversations where you're like, hey, uh, try to not

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Speaker 6: take this personally, but you're like twenty five days past

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Speaker 6: due and you're four to f one fifty can you pay?

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Speaker 6: And you're like hitting mute and the person is like

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Speaker 6: trying to coach you. Is gloriously awkward. But I'm glad

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Speaker 6: I had that job because well, one, I'm just not

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Speaker 6: a dick, right, So I'm on the front lines not

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Speaker 6: being a dick to people trying to help them, And

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Speaker 6: I think that's great right for humanity, where you have empathetic,

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Speaker 6: kind people trying to help other people, even if we

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Speaker 6: stumbled upon this weird job. And two, after you ask

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Speaker 6: complete strangers for payments on a loan that you personally

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Speaker 6: have nothing to do with, you can really learn quickly

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Speaker 6: how to talk to anyone about money. And you start

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Speaker 6: to see, like you start to see these patterns of

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Speaker 6: older people, people who were older than me, who didn't

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Speaker 6: know how credit worked, who didn't know how their credit

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Speaker 6: score worked. And so I'm like this twenty year old

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Speaker 6: kid educating people, you know, letting them know the laws

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Speaker 6: and what they can do. And so, you know, I

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Speaker 6: quickly learned. Man, there's a lot of folks who don't

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Speaker 6: know what's going on. There's a lot of folks who

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Speaker 6: as soon as they pick up the phone, they're just

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Speaker 6: you know, droping f bombs and they're pissed at me.

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Speaker 6: And I get it, you know, I get why they're emotional.

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Speaker 6: So I just got a crash course in the world

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Speaker 6: of how money works, how credit works, how debt works,

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Speaker 6: and how people are just very, very emotional when it

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Speaker 6: comes to money.

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Speaker 3: Dude.

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Speaker 4: The other part of that description there was a financial

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Speaker 4: wellness planner. And I have to say, having a financial

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Speaker 4: wellness planner like having one of those people on your team.

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Speaker 4: It sounds like, maybe it feels just to me like

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Speaker 4: a tremendously rich person thing, but it also sounds and

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Speaker 4: feels like something I really could use if I could

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Speaker 4: afford it, you know, that kind of thing. So what

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Speaker 4: did what did that role teach you? And what was

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Speaker 4: that role?

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Speaker 6: Like? Financial planning was a very interesting job because it

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Speaker 6: kind of was only for rich people at that time.

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Speaker 6: So I lucked out. I feel like a lot of

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Speaker 6: my jobs I lucked out. And I had a boss,

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Speaker 6: a mentor who brought me under his wing, and it

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Speaker 6: felt like he lifted up a curtain and was like, hey, kid,

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Speaker 6: here's how it all works, not just the mechanics of

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Speaker 6: like how do you understand life insurance? How do you

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Speaker 6: understand investments in retirement? Like he gave me that practical advice,

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Speaker 6: but I was also like on phone calls, you know,

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Speaker 6: listening to phone calls where my boss is talking to

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Speaker 6: his clients who are like Hollywood agents, and I'm literally

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Speaker 6: watching deals get you know, listening to deals getting made,

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Speaker 6: or like learning how to negotiate. So I felt like

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Speaker 6: I got some inside scoop. I felt like I've somehow

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Speaker 6: got a seat at a table where people are exchanging

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Speaker 6: information that only gets exchanged behind closed doors if you

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Speaker 6: had a lot of money. And I was like, how

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Speaker 6: the fuck did I get here? First of all, I

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Speaker 6: shouldn't be here. But over time, what I started to feel,

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Speaker 6: because you know, I belonged to a creative community. All

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Speaker 6: of my friends are artists, musicians, painters, filmmakers, designers, I

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Speaker 6: started to feel like, oh shit, I should probably take

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Speaker 6: this information and set it free. And I guess the

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Speaker 6: kids call that, you know, not gatekeeping, Like what has

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Speaker 6: happened in the industry was a lot of gatekeeping, and

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Speaker 6: just fundamentally who I am is Oh, hey, guys, they

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Speaker 6: I got I got my foot in the door.

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Speaker 1: They totally let.

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Speaker 6: Me sit at this table. Jokes on them. I'm going

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Speaker 6: to give you as much knowledge as I can get.

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Speaker 6: I'm going to give you everything I'm getting because you

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Speaker 6: should probably know this. That's what that job was, like.

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Speaker 1: I think that's an immensely powerful thing, Paco, because that's

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Speaker 1: something we encounter really often. You know. When I was

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Speaker 1: earlier in preparation for this, was talking with some friends

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Speaker 1: and the idea of that back room, that cabal of

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Speaker 1: insiders inevitably comes up when you talk about money, and

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Speaker 1: most people don't like to talk about money right pretty often,

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Speaker 1: and I recommended one one episode what was it called

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Speaker 1: Secret White People Money.

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Speaker 3: Which is any diaries right right?

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Speaker 1: Yes? Yes?

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Speaker 5: With uh.

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Speaker 1: In Weird Finance, you talked about this this concept as well,

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Speaker 1: that there was this idea of something conspiratorial about the

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Speaker 1: truth of finance. And one of the questions that I

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Speaker 1: was fielding with my friends earlier and then we've talked

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Speaker 1: about that in the show before, was simply this, why

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Speaker 1: aren't there book keeping classes in a lot of public schools?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 1: And does that why for a lot of the folks

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Speaker 1: that we speak with, a lot of the folks who

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Speaker 1: are listening today, that seems almost by design, is that crazy?

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Speaker 6: I don't know if it's crazy, it's definitely an angle.

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Speaker 1: Right right, And maybe maybe that conspiracy comes from the ie,

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Speaker 1: the that inherent discomfort A lot of people have discussing money,

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Speaker 1: discussing finance, right, and how do we empower people to

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Speaker 1: approach money in a or to approach the concept of

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Speaker 1: finance in a more productive or frankly less scary way.

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Speaker 6: Well, my opinion on the matter is we have to

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Speaker 6: do it through culture. I think that's really the only way.

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Speaker 6: Maybe I'm wrong here, but to me, the way to

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Speaker 6: get a message across, to impact people is to tell stories,

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Speaker 6: have people share their stories, and frankly, make it palatable

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Speaker 6: because it's so fucking boring, like period, do not pass

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Speaker 6: go to not collect two hundred dollars? It's kind of boring.

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Speaker 6: And if we can I think the industry has suffered

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Speaker 6: a lack of imagination for many many years, and that's fine.

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Speaker 6: That's worked for whoever needed to pass down that information,

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Speaker 6: maybe some old grandpa to his grandkid out on the

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Speaker 6: farm and explain things the way that he explained them,

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Speaker 6: and that worked back then. But the society that we're

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Speaker 6: living in now, it's not going to work like that.

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Speaker 6: We have to try to reach as many people as possible.

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Speaker 6: They have to understand just the basics of how to

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Speaker 6: manage their own personal finances, and I would love for

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Speaker 6: more people to just understand how systems came to be,

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Speaker 6: like how did credit cards come to be, why are

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Speaker 6: credit scores? How did we get that system? You know

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Speaker 6: what's behind marketing, you know how social media impacting your spending.

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Speaker 6: It's important for people to understand these concepts because at

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Speaker 6: the end of the day, we need to know how

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Speaker 6: we got here so that we can protest how we're

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Speaker 6: going to get out of it right, how we can

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Speaker 6: vote for ways to get out of it, and so

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Speaker 6: that we don't repeat these same mistakes and we don't

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Speaker 6: allow these power dynamics to persist. So that's one way

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Speaker 6: through culture, and I think the other way is getting

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Speaker 6: really comfortable with the discomfort of talking about out money

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Speaker 6: and we don't have to like lay it out all

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Speaker 6: on the table and be like, here's my financial confession.

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Speaker 6: You don't have to start that way with your friends.

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Speaker 6: But you know, I think just starting to ask really

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Speaker 6: simple questions that are even surface like surface level, like

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Speaker 6: you know, how much money do you think you would

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Speaker 6: need to quit your job or to never work again?

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Speaker 6: Or if you won the lotto tomorrow, what's the first

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Speaker 6: thing you would do, the first thing you would buy?

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Speaker 6: How would you what would you how would you go about.

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Speaker 1: A love some five hundred million other lottery tickets?

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Speaker 6: Obviously right, great strategy.

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Speaker 4: You had an excellent conversation with Aaron Lowry, I think

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Speaker 4: is how you say her name on being a broke millennial.

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Speaker 4: Aaron's an author and she's written several books. You can

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Speaker 4: check those out. But I want to ask you that

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Speaker 4: question just about that conversation. You guys talked about how

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Speaker 4: much you should keep in savings as like your rainy

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Speaker 4: day fund, And I know Aaron's thinking for a long

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Speaker 4: time was like one thousand dollars, or at least in

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Speaker 4: one of her previous books she had said one thousand dollars.

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Speaker 4: Then she's like, uh, maybe a month's salary, and then

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Speaker 4: the thinking kind of and the conversation changed, So maybe

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Speaker 4: like a year can that be the goal?

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Speaker 3: A year's salary in savings?

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Speaker 4: And that kind of made my heart and my brain

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Speaker 4: and actually most of my limbs all hurt so much.

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Speaker 4: How much way do you think we should feasibly set

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Speaker 4: as our goal to put away in savings to prepare

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Speaker 4: for uncertain times?

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Speaker 6: Well, I hate this question because I hate telling the truth.

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Speaker 1: Oh god, hey, we want Our show is about the

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Speaker 1: unvarnished truth. Poco, Let's ruin everybody's dand okay, yeah, so.

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Speaker 6: Saw everybody out here? I mean I think so. The

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Speaker 6: text book, right advice has always been three to six

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Speaker 6: months and three to six months of your expenses. And

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Speaker 6: Matt Aurie looks like he's going to throw up.

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Speaker 3: Yep, and it sucks.

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Speaker 6: I'm sorry. I just want to say that I'm sorry

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Speaker 6: that it sucks. I'm sorry that inflation is so high

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Speaker 6: and that prbably, you know, the cost of things are

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Speaker 6: going up. I'm sorry that interest rates are where they're at,

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Speaker 6: and that I feel like we had a moment even

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Speaker 6: during you know, twenty twenty twenty twenty one, where I think,

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Speaker 6: you know, everybody spent less. Everybody had cash coming in.

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Speaker 6: You know, not everybody, but a lot of people had

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Speaker 6: cash coming in. If you look historically at what was

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Speaker 6: going on at that time, consumer debt was going down,

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Speaker 6: and I feel like a lot of people had this

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Speaker 6: sense of hope. And then we get out of that,

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Speaker 6: we get out of our houses, and we start spending money,

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Speaker 6: and I think everybody is kind of feeling the pinch

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Speaker 6: of a lot of different things going on right now.

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Speaker 6: So I just want to say that if you're feeling

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Speaker 6: that way right now, you're not alone. A lot of

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Speaker 6: people are feeling the pinch. A lot of people are angry,

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Speaker 6: a lot of people are frustrated, and unfortunately, still the

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Speaker 6: fact remains that we have to find our agency in

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Speaker 6: these moments, and we have to take action, and we

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Speaker 6: have to do what's best for us. So that is

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Speaker 6: the preface with all of this. I do think three

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Speaker 6: to six months is like a prudent thing to do,

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Speaker 6: because what we've seen during twenty twenty and twenty twenty

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Speaker 6: one is what you think can happen, while it could

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Speaker 6: be way worse, Like we're living in such uncertain, unpredictable times.

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Speaker 6: Technology is just moving at a pace that our brains

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Speaker 6: cannot keep up with. That it would be whove you

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Speaker 6: to keep as much, not as much. It would be

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Speaker 6: who of you to keep that amount of cash on hand.

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Speaker 6: But I will say there's a lot of experts who

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Speaker 6: are saying up to a year. It really depends too

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Speaker 6: on one, your appetite for risk. I have a strong

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Speaker 6: appetite for risks, so I'm not keeping twelve months. And

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Speaker 6: two you have to know yourself and know like kind

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Speaker 6: of what you're capable of if shit hits the fan. Right,

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Speaker 6: I'm entrepreneurial. I know that if shit hits the fan

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Speaker 6: at the age that I'm at now, I can kind

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Speaker 6: of figure out how to navigate and I can find

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Speaker 6: scrappy ways to make money. That's just who I am,

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Speaker 6: you know. And just knowing that about myself, knowing that

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Speaker 6: I have a high appetite for risk, means that I'm

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Speaker 6: going to keep less cash on hand one and two

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Speaker 6: I'm gonna I'm going to invest more. That's just how

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Speaker 6: I'm going to navigate the world. Instead of having twelve

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Speaker 6: months on hand, I'm going to cut that in half

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Speaker 6: and I'm going to take that other chunk or take

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Speaker 6: you know, the amount of money that I'm making each month,

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Speaker 6: I'm going to take a portion of it, and instead

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Speaker 6: of keeping it in cash, I'm going to invest. So

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Speaker 6: there's a lot of different ways to navigate this and

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Speaker 6: a lot of different ways to slice it. But just

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Speaker 6: you know, just remember that you want to you do

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Speaker 6: want to have liquid cash on hand in case anything

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Speaker 6: is possible, Right, anything can happen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I always feel like zombies are right around the corner.

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Speaker 3: But that's just me.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 6: If zombies happen, though, I'm out like I'm gonna take.

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Speaker 1: I'm just dealing with it.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, why would you want to? Okay, So there's all

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Speaker 6: these popular zombie shows and I can't get into it

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Speaker 6: because whenever I watch it, I think, why are you

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Speaker 6: even here?

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Speaker 1: Still?

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Speaker 6: There's no internet, there's no air conditioning.

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Speaker 1: You're like foraging for things, right.

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Speaker 6: Your cell phones don't even work, Like, what's the point?

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Speaker 6: Why do you want to survive?

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Speaker 1: It's it's weird too. It's weird too because The Walking Dead,

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Speaker 1: which was a great comic book series and you know,

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Speaker 1: is filmed extensively here in Atlanta. For a long time,

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Speaker 1: it became a thing where it was just sort of

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Speaker 1: a soap opera and zombies occasionally showed up. It could

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Speaker 1: have they could have changed the name from The Walking

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Speaker 1: Dead to Life without the Internet sucks, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. It could have saved a little on budget.

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Speaker 1: And that might sound like a weird hypothetical. You said.

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Speaker 1: You said something that I think resonates with a lot

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Speaker 1: of us tuning in today, which is the concept of

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Speaker 1: appetite for risk for many people. For like the average

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Speaker 1: person listening on the news. You might hear a report

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Speaker 1: from Bloomberg or something, or you might see that what's

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Speaker 1: that guy who is always screaming about stocks? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you might see they might see a report from that guy.

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Speaker 1: And these things that they're talking about feels sort of abstract.

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Speaker 1: You know. The average person is watching and saying, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm concerned about this paycheck that I am or am

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Speaker 1: not going to get. I am baffled by the fact

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Speaker 1: that oranges and what's another thing people would buy of

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Speaker 1: case idias. I always buy case didas the baffled by

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Speaker 1: the fact that oranges and case ideas are now twenty

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Speaker 1: percent more expensive. I don't understand why. And this person

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Speaker 1: on television is shouting about risk and investor confidence. Where's

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Speaker 1: the connection there, because it seems like there's some middle

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Speaker 1: ground that is missing between our micro on the ground

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Speaker 1: human experiences with the world of money and the macro

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Speaker 1: factors that were always told affect us.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. I've wondered that too, and frankly, that's why I

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Speaker 6: continue to be in this space. It's a very you know,

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Speaker 6: personal finance is a very set from a business perspective,

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Speaker 6: it's a very saturated Spacely, did we really need another

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Speaker 6: book about personal finance? That's what I had asked myself

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Speaker 6: before I wrote Finance for the People. But I really

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Speaker 6: want to try to bridge that gap, and I really

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Speaker 6: want to create things in the culture like the book

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Speaker 6: and the podcast. Whoever's listening, give me a television show already,

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Speaker 6: just give it to me. Yes, wait, that's exactly right, but.

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Speaker 1: We're finding them on them. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: But I want to create relatable things that are going

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Speaker 6: to one entertain because that's the world we live in.

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Speaker 6: It has to be entertaining, I'm sorry, and to educate

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Speaker 6: people and maybe inspire them, maybe get them fired up.

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Speaker 6: But there's again, once again, there's just been a severe

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Speaker 6: lack of imagination in this industry and trying to reach

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Speaker 6: regular human beings, trying to educate them, trying to inspire them.

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Speaker 6: And you know, at the end of the day, maybe

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Speaker 6: I'm I'm I'm happy for that because now there's space

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Speaker 6: for somebody like me to come in and just again

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Speaker 6: have a have a normal conversation about how the world

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Speaker 6: of money works. And you know why you should you

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Speaker 6: give just just a little bit of a fuck about this,

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Speaker 6: just the tiniest of fucks.

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Speaker 1: Give just a little bit of a fuck, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean? And a scale one, scale one to ten.

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Speaker 1: We're going to pause here for a word from ours sponsors,

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Speaker 1: and then we will be right back with the creator

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Speaker 1: of weird Finance, Paco de Leon.

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Speaker 3: And we've returned, let's jump into this.

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Speaker 1: There's something else that's really important about your approach here, uh,

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Speaker 1: the idea of humanizing these experiences, as you said earlier,

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Speaker 1: exercising empathy. Right, Understanding the numbers is necessary, but the

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Speaker 1: best way to understand the numbers is to understand how

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Speaker 1: we as humans interact with them.

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Speaker 3: And that's why you talked with Mistress Marley.

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Speaker 5: Right, Wait what you questioned hijack to me man, No, no,

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Speaker 5: but that's a great let's keep it because that that

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Speaker 5: is I think an example of some of the humananity

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Speaker 5: that you're bringing into the conversation.

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Speaker 1: I think when a lot of people, like you said,

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Speaker 1: when a lot of people think of finance, they tend

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Speaker 1: to get kind of bored in advance. Sure, right, you

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Speaker 1: know they hear the word what's what's a weird financial

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Speaker 1: term that puts people to sleep?

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Speaker 6: Dollar cost averaging? We just lost a bunch of people.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what is that really?

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Speaker 6: Okay, dollar cost averaging? Oh man, I did this to myself.

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Speaker 6: I should have picked something else.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 6: Dollar cost averaging is this idea that when you invest

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Speaker 6: your money into the stock market. Right, So let's just

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Speaker 6: use a war one K as an example. Every pay

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Speaker 6: every other week, I get a paycheck, and I'm going

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Speaker 6: to take a little bit of my paycheck and I'm

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00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 6: going to buy into different funds inside of my retirement account,

437
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 6: inside of my four to one K account. And when

438
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 6: you buy every other week, you are buying at different prices,

439
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 6: and you want to buy at different prices because you

440
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,199
Speaker 6: never really know when the market's going to be up

441
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 6: and when the market's going to be down. So of

442
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 6: course we want to buy low and sell high. Right,

443
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 6: we want to buy it cheap and we want to

444
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 6: sell it when it's expensive because that's how we make money.

445
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 6: But there's no way to know. So instead of trying

446
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,959
Speaker 6: to time the market and predict it, we dollar cost average,

447
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 6: we buy in every other week, or we buy in

448
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 6: consistently no matter what the price is. All right, wake

449
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 6: up everyone?

450
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,400
Speaker 1: No wait wait yeah, actually yeah, wait everybody, wake up.

451
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: I got it.

452
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 3: No, I got it.

453
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 4: You you you're always investing more money into it. Wait

454
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 4: a second, but okay, who are these suckers who are

455
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 4: buying high and selling low?

456
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 6: I mean people, there are, there are investors out there,

457
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 6: and I maybe say investors in air quotes. I mean,

458
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,239
Speaker 6: you're an investor if you're investing money. But you know,

459
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 6: like there's a lot of at home day traders especially

460
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 6: I think in twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, remember the

461
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,120
Speaker 6: whole game stop thing, and you know there's a lot

462
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 6: of people out there who are trying to time the market. Yeah,

463
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 6: just there you go to the moon guys.

464
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: Right right, right, yeah, that's I think they were messing

465
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 1: with Blockbuster two for a while an AMC an AMC

466
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, it took.

467
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 6: So much of my willpower not to be like, oh,

468
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 6: I want to get it on this. It seems like

469
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 6: so fun, We're sticking it to the man. But I

470
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 6: was like, no, remember, don't get swept up in this.

471
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: The it's also fascinating the way that we see that

472
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: that that kind of play out as a narrative of

473
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,959
Speaker 1: we the people against the one percent, you know. And

474
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 1: I think that was a really it was a really

475
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: compelling idea. Again because a lot of folks, to their

476
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: earlier point, a lot of folks maybe don't didn't fully

477
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: understand the environment in which they were attempting to kind

478
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: of operate. And I think for most people, or for

479
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: many people, the stock market as a concept is fucking strange. Yeah,

480
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 1: And like if we went, if we met an extraterrestrial species,

481
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 1: if they landed on this podcast right now, they somehow

482
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: hopped on our riverside and they said, I've never heard

483
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: of the stock market. How would we explain the stock

484
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: market in a way that does not sound insane?

485
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,719
Speaker 6: I mean, it's insane. So we have to accept that

486
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 6: as the premise because it's insane. Because of this reason.

487
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 6: When you think about a public company, a public company

488
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 6: is a company who shares right, little ownership slivers can

489
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 6: be bought and sold in the stock market. That's a

490
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 6: public company. The job of the CEO of those companies

491
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 6: is to maximize shareholder profit. Period That's it. That's their

492
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 6: main job, according to the rules of how this modern

493
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 6: economy works. And if they don't do that, they're failing.

494
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 6: And so in order to maximize shareholder profit, what has

495
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 6: to happen to achieve this is whoever's working in the company,

496
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 6: they'll be paid whatever they're going to be paid, and

497
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 6: those people working are going to create value. They're extracting

498
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 6: some of that value for themselves in the form of wages,

499
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 6: but the great majority of the value that they are

500
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 6: creating goes up and gets extracted by the shareholders because

501
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 6: the job of the CEO is to maximize shareholder profit.

502
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 6: So the stock market, how people are making money, how

503
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 6: people are generating wealth. The rules of engagement is it's

504
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 6: inherently exploited. If the mechanism for building wealth in the

505
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 6: stock market is inherently exploited if period. So I think

506
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 6: once you start to understand, like, oh shit, this is

507
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 6: how it works, well, you're probably gonna be bummed out

508
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 6: for a little while. But two, then you have to

509
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 6: ask yourself, like how do you part? I think this

510
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 6: is a big question right that we're all grappling with

511
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 6: right now, and the show The Good Place does a

512
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 6: great job of highlighting this question, is like how are

513
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 6: you how do you act ethically? Or like just how

514
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 6: do you act like a good human being here on

515
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 6: earth when you're forced into these systems. We're in a

516
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 6: globalized economy. Like you said earlier, if you wanted to

517
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 6: be a conscientious objector, you're probably going to go be

518
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 6: a monk sitting on a hill eating the beans that

519
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 6: you've grown. That's not realistic for a lot of people,

520
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 6: so so much of our lives. I think they're making

521
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 6: these little negotiations understanding how the world works and then recognizing, fine,

522
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 6: if I am participating in an exploitative stock market, how

523
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 6: can I offset that? And sure, you could do that

524
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 6: with money, you could do that with donations. But the

525
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 6: thing that the narrative I've been trying to push is

526
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 6: you could also be nice. You could be nice to

527
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 6: each other. You could say hi to your barrista and

528
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 6: not you know, throw money at them. You could smile

529
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 6: to other people. You could be a little bit more

530
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 6: empathetic and open hearted, allow yourself to feel the pain

531
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,719
Speaker 6: of others, and that's a start. And I know that

532
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 6: that's not financial, but maybe that's what we need. I'm

533
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 6: in a soapbox now.

534
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: Wow, this is a soapbox set. I hope more people

535
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: join you on. Pichael Re recently did an episode on

536
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: the concept of tipping in the United States, which, like

537
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: the stock market, you sound fucking ridiculous sometimes when you

538
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:58,719
Speaker 1: try to explain tipping to someone who's unfamiliar. I think

539
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: now that you are the first financial expert we've ever

540
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: had on this show, and Matt, this might be an

541
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: appetite for risk situation, but I think we have to

542
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: ask Paco about tipping. What do you think, Paco about

543
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: the concept of tipping in the United States.

544
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:26,479
Speaker 6: I hate it so much. I think it's awkward that

545
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 6: the impetus is on the consumer. I think it's such

546
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 6: an uncomfortable thing where you go to a restaurant and

547
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 6: so much of the person who is serving you, who

548
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 6: is an employee of that restaurant, so much of your

549
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 6: own actions as the consumer are going to impact their livelihood.

550
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 6: And I understand from a business perspective, why restaurants are

551
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 6: caught in this rock and hard place. There are lots

552
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 6: of other restaurants in the States that have tried to

553
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 6: move towards tipless and some of them survive, and I'm

554
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 6: stoked on that not all of them do. A lot

555
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 6: of them revert back. Restaurants are notoriously hard business. The

556
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 6: margins are very, very slim. The cost of food has

557
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 6: gone up, as we all know, and the cost of

558
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 6: labor has gone up, so they're getting to squeeze. They

559
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 6: don't want to just demonize restaurant tours, but it's just

560
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 6: it's so awkward. Right when I go to Europe or

561
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 6: I go to other places and the payment for the

562
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 6: food includes what would be a living wage for the employee,

563
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 6: it just feels better for us. We're riddled with shame

564
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 6: and guilt when we don't fork over the twenty percent,

565
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 6: and I just I do wish that it was different.

566
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 6: I do wish that employers were responsible for paying their

567
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 6: staff a living wage and that was just included in

568
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 6: the price, because it just would make it would just

569
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 6: make it less awkward. And at the end of the day,

570
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 6: that's one of the themes that I've been exploring a lot.

571
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 6: And the theme that I want to continue to explore

572
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 6: in my work and all the different things that I

573
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 6: want to make TV show is Inequality is awkward. Inequality

574
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 6: is awkward. It's such an awkward thing to navigate. There's

575
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 6: so much tension in friction and that's fine, but like,

576
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 6: let's dig into that, let's see what that's all about.

577
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, if we were all getting paid a living

578
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,959
Speaker 4: wage and feeling good about our finances, giving somebody twenty

579
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 4: percent would not feel weird at all, and you would

580
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 4: do it without thinking. You would just, oh, I'm helping

581
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 4: this person have a living wage. But as we learned

582
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 4: in that Tipping episode, it's way more complicated than that

583
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 4: because of the systems that restaurants have had to put

584
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 4: together to get everybody paid, you know, and feel a

585
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 4: little more equal inside the kitchen and you know, the

586
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 4: back of the house in front of house, and it

587
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 4: just doesn't work out really well. But you had a conversation, well,

588
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 4: I think this is a related You tell me if

589
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 4: it's not. You had a conversation with Jay Handy about

590
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 4: financial planning as an artist, and y'all got into the

591
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 4: concept of patronage, like being a patron finding and having

592
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 4: a patron as an artist, which in a way, like

593
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 4: you know, the term patron is used for people who

594
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 4: go into restaurants often it feels kind of similar to me.

595
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 4: In this case, we're talking about paying to have artists

596
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 4: and artist create art, like commissioning some art to be created,

597
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 4: I think, but maybe I'm wrong. Can you tell me

598
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 4: just about being a patron and how important that is

599
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 4: for artists?

600
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 6: So I think that the concept of patrons from an

601
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 6: artist's perspective, they're still around, right, Like the medics in

602
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 6: Italy were big patrons and responsible for a lot of

603
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:43,720
Speaker 6: the Renaissance work. But today's world, the patrons are big corporations.

604
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 6: It's the Googles and the Apples. So I run a

605
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 6: book keeping agency. On the great majority of the clients

606
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 6: we serves our production companies, marketing agencies. These people are

607
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 6: basically creative people, right. They're filmmakers, they're photographers, they're their artists,

608
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 6: and they're shouting.

609
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,439
Speaker 1: Out to the hell.

610
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, they're trying to They're trying to make a living

611
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 6: by exploiting their creativity. Right, They're trying to be creative

612
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 6: professionals in the world. And you know, like several thousands

613
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 6: of years ago, that would be the way that you

614
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 6: do that as you find a family, right and they

615
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 6: would be your patrons. The way to do it today

616
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 6: is to find the new patrons. So a lot of

617
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 6: these people are filmmakers and they're photographers, and they're trying

618
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 6: to just do that, and they have to make films

619
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 6: for Google and Coca Cola. And I'm not saying that

620
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 6: there's anything wrong with that. I'm not disparaging people for

621
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 6: making a living or using their creativity again to create

622
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 6: culture along these consumer brands. I think that's just the

623
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 6: reality of it of being an artist in today's world.

624
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 6: Of course, there are fine artists who can opt out

625
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 6: of that, but a lot of them it's hard to do.

626
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 6: I mean, you're even seeing, like right now, there's an

627
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 6: interesting thing happening with anime culture and luxury goods. We're

628
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 6: starting to see a lot of crossovers. We're sharing to

629
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 6: see a lot of anime collaborating with really really high

630
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 6: in luxury brands. And so, right that's art, that's artistry,

631
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 6: it's it's it's and now it's being infused in consumer goods,

632
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 6: and so I think we're just going to start to

633
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 6: see this, you know, crossover happening across the.

634
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 4: Board, and you described yourself as a patron, Like, I

635
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,240
Speaker 4: don't know how it works, but like, I guess donating

636
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 4: money to a museum or a place that takes in art.

637
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 4: Can you just explain that because I want to I

638
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 4: want to think about doing that in the future.

639
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 3: I just don't know what it looks like.

640
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 6: Well, I use the wrong word. I'm a donor, not

641
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 6: a patren donor donor.

642
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: Okay, what what would the difference be? I think that's

643
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: that's maybe aunderstanding.

644
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think a patron writes like a heinously large check.

645
00:36:54,280 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, So it's like the old Chris Rock bit

646
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: right where you say rich versus wealthy, Like, I.

647
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 6: Don't know this bit, I'm embarrassed.

648
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: Go on, oh ye oh, gosh, we hang on, let's

649
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 1: just text Chris.

650
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 3: But like the ideas you donate to? And what is it?

651
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 4: Like what organizations you donate to and then they can

652
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 4: buy art? I guess is the concept?

653
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 6: Yeah? Actually, so I am a donor for the Los

654
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 6: Angeles County Museum of Art is our county museum, and

655
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 6: I belong to a design council and so every year,

656
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 6: my wife and I write a check to be a

657
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 6: part of this council. And every year this council has

658
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 6: a dinner. And what they do during this dinner is

659
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 6: the curators they bring you into this room and they

660
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 6: show you about nine, maybe six seven pieces of art

661
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 6: that they would like to acquire for the museum using

662
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 6: your donated funds. So they walk you through and the

663
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 6: it's so fun that the curators are like, come over here, pocket,

664
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 6: let me tell you about these tin cans.

665
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 3: Go over here, pocket, let.

666
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 6: Me tell you about this crazy looking floor lamp.

667
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: And why have you ever wondered what color music is?

668
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 3: Exactly?

669
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,439
Speaker 6: And I I like, let's let's let's smog a little

670
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 6: bit of weed. And here what the curator wants to

671
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 6: tell us. Yeah, So they bring you in and then

672
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 6: they give you this little paper and it has all

673
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 6: the objects and then you're gonna you're gonna vote on them.

674
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 5: Right.

675
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 6: So after we look at the objects up close, we

676
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 6: go and we sit down and we have a little

677
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 6: you know, little apertivo, and the curators go up one

678
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 6: by one and they campaign for their pieces. They are

679
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 6: arguing why it is that this museum should have these

680
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 6: pieces of art in their collection. And so something that

681
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 6: I learned is, you know, I'll be like looking at

682
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 6: a piece of art, like I don't care about this

683
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 6: wooden chest from thirteen fifty, and then the curator will

684
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 6: go up and they'll make an argument as to why

685
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 6: this is an important piece of work and needs to

686
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 6: be acquired. And then after all the curators go up,

687
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 6: you rank on a scale of like, you know, one

688
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 6: to nine or one to seven, I can't remember how

689
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 6: many it is, how the funds should be deployed, and

690
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 6: then you go and you have dinner. And here's the

691
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,399
Speaker 6: really fancy part. A lot of these people who belong

692
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 6: to these councils are wealthy, and they are patrons because

693
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 6: oftentimes the amount of the amounts of things the curators

694
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 6: want to acquire, but it costs more than what we've

695
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 6: collected for that year through our funds. So a lot

696
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 6: of these people will say, hey, I'll donate you know,

697
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,879
Speaker 6: something modest, like well, it depends on what your idea

698
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 6: of modest is. But some people will raise their hand

699
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 6: and say I'll put in five grand for this thing,

700
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 6: and other people will be like, I'm gonna throw down,

701
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 6: you know, forty grand for that chair, and I'm.

702
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, so do they get to sit in the chair?

703
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 6: No, but they but they get you know, when they

704
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 6: when the thing is acquired and it's in the museum,

705
00:39:58,000 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 6: the little tag will be like, you know, thank you

706
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 6: to and so family and this council for helping us acquire.

707
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 6: So that's I think the difference between a donor and

708
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 6: a patron is somebody who can write a heinously large

709
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 6: check and there are people who are writing you know,

710
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 6: million dollar checks as well. They're the ones who are

711
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 6: going to have their name on the building. That is

712
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 6: the patron. And the difference between the patron and donor,

713
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 6: in my opinion, and so it's been fascinating for me

714
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 6: to kind of get into this world where I'm not

715
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 6: the one raising my hand and being like, let me

716
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 6: throw it down forty thousand dollars for this chair, but

717
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 6: to witness it and to watch it and to see like, oh,

718
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 6: this is just a part of how this world of

719
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 6: art works. If you're fascinated and interested to learn more

720
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 6: about the art world, there's a really great documentary called

721
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 6: The Price of Making It or the Cost of Making It,

722
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 6: and it really dives into this, Like I guess it's

723
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 6: the art industrial complex and what artists have to kind

724
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 6: of go through, like what they're phrase, yeah, and what

725
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 6: they're like, you know, you expect like the superstars who

726
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 6: get shot out of a cannon, right, they're the ones

727
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 6: who go to Yale and get their MFA and they

728
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 6: play the game. And part of the game is getting

729
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 6: an acquisition from a large museum like that. It's a nod.

730
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 6: And then and then it gets even more fucked up.

731
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 6: And there's this whole bit about collectors and their role

732
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 6: and the ecosystem, and you know, even thinking about pricing, right,

733
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 6: thinking about like artists who sell their work for a

734
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,879
Speaker 6: certain amount, they get a they get a they get

735
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 6: a check. But then what happens in the secondary market

736
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 6: is it just goes up and up and up, and

737
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 6: the artist doesn't necessarily profit from that exchange.

738
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,399
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're talking about this because we did

739
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: uh while back. I'm not I'm not sure how long

740
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 1: ago with this. We did an episode on money laundering

741
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 1: through fine art over international borders. And when we first

742
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: got into it, I think it's safe to say that

743
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 1: we all thought is or isolated incidents. Surely there's someone

744
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: at the wheel of quantifying the value of creativity in

745
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: this way, and there's no one. There's a bunch of

746
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 1: crazy people. There are some bad faith actors, I would say,

747
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 1: but this brings us to something that I want to

748
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: stick with and staying on the positive, the positive side

749
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: of this, the fundraising, the dinner you describe this is

750
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 1: technically right. We could argue this is activist investing. We

751
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: could argue this is collective action right on some level.

752
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:55,800
Speaker 1: Is it possible for average people here in the United States,

753
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: Is it possible for them to take some sort of

754
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: collective action in their own community through finance? And if so,

755
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: why doesn't happen more often?

756
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 6: Of course, I believe in collective action. I believe that

757
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 6: our individual actions, aggregated over time create change. And like

758
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 6: you know, the poetic example I always like to use

759
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 6: is a wave eroding a rock. That is a beautiful

760
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 6: example of just consistent action over time that can be individual,

761
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 6: it can be collective, and it it creates something that

762
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 6: you could never imagine. Just the low hum of small

763
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 6: action can create, right, a beautiful cliff side. The reason

764
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 6: why I think specifically Americans have a hard time coming

765
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 6: together is because our society is just so permeated, saturated

766
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 6: with this idea of the rugged individual, that we should

767
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 6: do things on our own that that's pretty detrimental, right.

768
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,760
Speaker 6: We are just pitted against one another in so many ways.

769
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 6: And I look to other countries that are just much

770
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 6: more socially, they're just much more collective. You look at

771
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 6: Asian countries and how they put their family first, and

772
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 6: how there's always this idea of like, whatever my actions are,

773
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 6: they impact everyone, right, Like I have one of my

774
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 6: best friends is out in Korea right now and she's

775
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 6: sending me pictures and she's like, there are no trash

776
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 6: cans here, but there is no trash on the streets.

777
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 6: And I think that has to do with this idea

778
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:38,240
Speaker 6: that we all, they all you know, they're thinking about

779
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 6: things from a from a collective perspective.

780
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 5: Right.

781
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 6: Look at France, they're constantly protesting something.

782
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: Right right right with it.

783
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,959
Speaker 6: Is in their culture to just say, the big guy

784
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 6: is trying to fuck us. What can we do to

785
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 6: come together and say, no, I am not going to

786
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 6: retire two years later. I'm going to retire at this

787
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 6: age and with.

788
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 4: That will take a quick break here, word from our

789
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 4: sponsors and be right back with Paco.

790
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: And we have returned. Let's dive back in.

791
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 4: I think it was when you were talking with Aaron.

792
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 4: You guys discussed a system that exists in some smaller communities,

793
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 4: maybe where everyone in the community puts in an individual

794
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:32,359
Speaker 4: twenty dollars into some kind of savings entity, and then

795
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 4: if there's a big problem, somebody needs surgery, somebody needs

796
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 4: help in the community, they get that pool for that month.

797
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 4: I guess, is that a thing like that feels like

798
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 4: something I would want to do.

799
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's a lot of different cultures. There's like Latin

800
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 6: cultures and Asian cultures that participate. Oftentimes it's like, you know,

801
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 6: an immigrant culture. They come to America, they don't have

802
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,319
Speaker 6: a social safety net, and part of the way that

803
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 6: they help each other out is, yeah, they put everybody

804
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 6: participates in. I don't know if it's called a giving

805
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 6: circle or a lending circle, but I think it's along

806
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 6: those lines where they put money in and actually it

807
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 6: doesn't always have to be like if something bad happens,

808
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 6: then those people get the money, but it's more like

809
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 6: everybody puts in money and then periodically, over time you

810
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 6: get that pot of money for that month. So that's

811
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 6: how that works. Yeah, it's it's a force savings plan

812
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 6: and there's accountability built in, and it is an interesting

813
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 6: way to come together and support one another. There's also

814
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 6: like meal trains. I don't know if that's what they're called,

815
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 6: but actually my aunts participate in this where you know,

816
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,879
Speaker 6: one person will cook on Monday and feed the group, right,

817
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 6: and then another person will cook on Tuesday, and then

818
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,240
Speaker 6: they'll feed the group, another person will cook on Wednesday,

819
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 6: they'll feed the group. And that's a way to be

820
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 6: like in community and supporting one another and uplifting and

821
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 6: helping one another. Right. Yeah, So I think there's a

822
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 6: lot of different ways that we could support one another.

823
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 6: It's just our society, American culture and specifically just feels

824
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,359
Speaker 6: like you have to have your own blender, and you

825
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 6: have to have your own garage, and you have to

826
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 6: do everything on your own. And I think, I hope,

827
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 6: I hope a lot of us are recognizing that we're

828
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 6: hitting those limits. Right, We're starting to understand that that's unsustainable.

829
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:24,399
Speaker 6: And if you want to dig into the history of it,

830
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:28,760
Speaker 6: like Doug there's this podcaster, author Douglas Rushkoff. He talks

831
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 6: a lot about this idea of like how the suburbs

832
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 6: were created, and the suburbs were created after war, and

833
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 6: a lot of that was this idea of like, you know,

834
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 6: people are isolated. People have their own individual cars, their

835
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 6: own again refrigerators, they all have their own and they

836
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 6: can't there's like less walkability, there's less running into each other,

837
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 6: and there's everybody's like isolated in their own vehicle and

838
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 6: they drive to these cyney centers and then they drive

839
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 6: back home. And so much of the a that our

840
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 6: world is set up is to be isolated.

841
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 3: It's anti communists. It's on purpose, you guys.

842
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 4: So we didn't come together in communes and talk with

843
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 4: one another and work together. We had to be individuals

844
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 4: that can be controlled as batteries economic battery.

845
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 3: Now I'm just joking kind of.

846
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:24,399
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. I yeah, right, six

847
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: and one head for sure. Uh. This is so you

848
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:35,320
Speaker 1: hit so many things that are immensely fascinating and felly

849
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: conspiracy realist tuning in. I just want to co sign

850
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: your friend Paco because having spent some time in uh

851
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,720
Speaker 1: that part of the world, in Korea and Japan, it

852
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 1: is fucking baffling. There are no trash cans. There is

853
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 1: no trash, you know what I mean, Like walking around

854
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 1: I I'm not a clever person, so I just kept

855
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 1: putting trash in like my pockets and my backpack. And

856
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,399
Speaker 1: when I got full, I thought, well, I guess it's

857
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 1: time to go to where I'm sleeping. It's the only

858
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: trash can in town. So we know that there is

859
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: this collective action because I learned that in a lot

860
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 1: of those environments, people will feel more unified toward a

861
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: greater common cause, right, whether that is keeping the streets clean,

862
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: whether that is making sure everybody in our chosen community

863
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: is fed, right, is housed safely. And this idea of

864
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:47,760
Speaker 1: the post World War two economic boom in the United

865
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: States leading to increased isolation, I think is an incredibly

866
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: salient point and it's a dangerous one that continues across generation.

867
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,839
Speaker 1: Which is a very long way for me to get

868
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 1: to this question intergenerational wealth, wealth acquisition over time, to

869
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:19,399
Speaker 1: what degree does this effect inequality in the United States.

870
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 1: I know I sound like chat GPT, right, but I

871
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 1: promise it's I don't.

872
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 6: I'm just trying to think, like, do I have any

873
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 6: statistics that I could rattle off the top of my dome,

874
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,919
Speaker 6: but I don't, so I'm gonna have to wax poetic here.

875
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 6: I definitely think that it's really hard to look at

876
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:43,919
Speaker 6: this question without looking at some of the underlying factors

877
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 6: that have created intergenerational wealth historically, and slavery is one

878
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 6: of those things. There's so much of the American economic

879
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 6: you know, so much prosperity was created on the backs

880
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 6: of free labor, and I just there's no way to

881
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 6: really I mean, I'm sure maybe there's PhD holders in

882
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 6: the subject of economics that can say this is the

883
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:18,879
Speaker 6: exact amount of you know, money, or this is how

884
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 6: we can calculate the value that was created on the

885
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 6: backs of free labor. But yeah, I think that has

886
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 6: a big, big impact, and it's hard to entangle that.

887
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 6: It's hard to understand the American story and American prosperity

888
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,840
Speaker 6: without that piece. And right, so that's the flavor of

889
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 6: the dish that we're operating on. Right you think about

890
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 6: just the Vanderbilts, and you know, all these big, big

891
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 6: families who have had so much wealth, you know, built

892
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 6: on the backs of free labor. And that's something that's

893
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 6: hard to a hard pill to swallow, and it's hard

894
00:51:59,360 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 6: to confront.

895
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 1: You know, it's I bring it up because it is.

896
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: It is a question people often avoid addressing, right, And

897
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 1: there was a there was this immensely interesting article I

898
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: read from Reuters that had a headline that really bothered us,

899
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 1: really bothered. When I say us, I mean all the people.

900
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: I instantly texted like, look at this shit? Are you

901
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 1: kidding me? So the idea is that a vast amount

902
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: of US political elites, they very well to do political

903
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 1: class in the United States, have direct family links to

904
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:56,879
Speaker 1: chattel slavery. The Reuters article found five living presidents, eleven governors,

905
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 1: Supreme Court justices, name name your pick of congress members

906
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 1: of some sort have inherited you know, a way to

907
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:14,280
Speaker 1: start not on home plate, but on second or third base,

908
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: and knowing how directly that impacts everybody else in the ballgame,

909
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:31,240
Speaker 1: it makes us wonder what we can do as first

910
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 1: generation wealth builders. Could you talk a little bit about

911
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 1: the episode, the conversation you had with Pamela Capalod.

912
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think the very first thing is probably just

913
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 6: arming yourself with the knowledge and the information in terms

914
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 6: of how does this world work, what is wealth? And

915
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 6: why does it matter and how does it ultimately impact

916
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 6: the world and impact your family. And so there's one

917
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 6: concept that I try to hammer home all the time

918
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 6: that wealth is ownership. If you want to be wealthy,

919
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 6: you must own things. You must own valuable things. And

920
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,879
Speaker 6: the way that you own valuable things is you take

921
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 6: your earned income and you buy valuable things, which is

922
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 6: a very common you know, the two very common ways

923
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 6: is buying real estate or buying into the stock market

924
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 6: by investing. Or you create wealthy things. So you create

925
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:36,839
Speaker 6: a business that is a income stream, a revenue stream,

926
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 6: and you can you can own that business until you're

927
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 6: adorably old and wrinkly, and you can pass that on

928
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 6: to your family, or you can you know, you can

929
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 6: build a business and think about how it's valuable, and

930
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 6: think about how it generates revenue, and think about how

931
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:52,840
Speaker 6: you're maybe one day going to sell it, right, because

932
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 6: that's going to be valuable to somebody. They can live

933
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 6: off of that. Or you can do a combination of

934
00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 6: these things. But the fact of the matter is, and

935
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 6: you can do with creativity, right. I mean, it's really

936
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 6: hard to make a living on creativity alone. It's tremendously undervalued.

937
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 6: It's baffling because it takes the most amount of work,

938
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 6: like writing a book versus writing a book keeping agency.

939
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:17,919
Speaker 6: Guess what, Writing the book was a lot. It's it's

940
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 6: so hard. I don't know how people live off of

941
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 6: just writing books. Frankly, they probably don't. But yeah, you

942
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 6: can create. You know, you guys are creating this show.

943
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 6: That is a revenue stream. There's ways to even leverage

944
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 6: your own creativity to create revenue streams. But own and

945
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:42,840
Speaker 6: build valuable things. That's the key to building wealth. And

946
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 6: I think if you let that seed just bury into

947
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 6: your little cute, little mushy brain and let that just

948
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:52,439
Speaker 6: sprout over time and orient your lens when it comes

949
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 6: to your financial life to that. I just I've never

950
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,439
Speaker 6: heard anyone explain it like that. I'm like, it's so simple. Guys,

951
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 6: own valuable things, build well valuable things.

952
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 3: Well.

953
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 4: One of the big problems a lot of us, at

954
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 4: least in the millennial generation and people right around our

955
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 4: age range, one of the problems we have is that

956
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 4: we went to college because one of the most important

957
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 4: things in our rubrict that was, like how do we

958
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 4: become wealthy and continue wealth down the line is go

959
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 4: to college so you can get a job that is

960
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 4: of college level.

961
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 3: Right, and we all went into debt.

962
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 4: And today, as we record this on Friday, June thirtieth,

963
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 4: the Supreme Court just said, Hey, there was a plan

964
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 4: to forgive a bunch of debt.

965
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 3: That's unconstitutional. We can't do that.

966
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 4: So that four hundred billion dollars that we're going to

967
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 4: raise student loan.

968
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 3: Debt, that's not happening. So that could have been cool.

969
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 4: Well, I mean it could have been It could have

970
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:52,359
Speaker 4: been cool as a way to put people on, you know,

971
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:54,799
Speaker 4: on that path as you're saying, to creating that first

972
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 4: generation generational wealth by erasing intergenerational debt, which is what

973
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 4: student debt becomes. I know a lot of parents who

974
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:06,400
Speaker 4: are in retirement age and you know, are getting closer

975
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 4: to the end of their lives who are going to

976
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:11,319
Speaker 4: pass down student loan debt.

977
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,760
Speaker 3: Sorry, that just made a big statement. Uh.

978
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 4: The reason why I'm even talking about this is because

979
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 4: you you talked with Braxton Brewington about a like. In

980
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 4: my mind, it was a crazy idea because I can't

981
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 4: imagine the system ever allowing it to happen. But it's

982
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 4: the concept of creating a debtor's union like a labor union,

983
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 4: but a collective action basically against debt. Uh, Like, what

984
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,919
Speaker 4: what is that? And do you think there's any feasibility there?

985
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, Debtors Union is a bunch of debtors

986
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 6: coming together and trying to urge. And you know, there

987
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 6: are a bunch of activists trying to get the current

988
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 6: administration whoever it is, to help out folks who are

989
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 6: who have a tremendous amount of student debt. They have

990
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 6: been successful in some instances. They have been able to

991
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 6: get debt forgiven for schools that we're practicing predatory lending,

992
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 6: So they have been successful on a larger scale. I mean, yeah,

993
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 6: it's an uphill battle, but I think it's definitely one

994
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 6: worth fighting for. And even if we don't see it

995
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 6: happen in the next year or eighteen months or two

996
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 6: or five years, the fact that we're fighting the battle

997
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 6: is what I think is important. You know, these big

998
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 6: changes they do happen over time. And the way that

999
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 6: I look at it, the way that I look at

1000
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 6: my work and the people who are who are my

1001
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 6: age or I call it, like you know, in my

1002
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 6: cohort putting their work out there is we are doing

1003
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 6: the best we can with taking the ball down the court,

1004
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 6: and then the next generation comes in. They stand on

1005
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:54,439
Speaker 6: the shoulders of giants and they do their work as well,

1006
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 6: and so it's really frustrating. And you know, it's easy

1007
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 6: to be short sighted and to just look at how

1008
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 6: how what we're doing impacts us. But in the theme

1009
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 6: of thinking about you know, society at large and thinking

1010
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:10,919
Speaker 6: about humanity, we have to do the best given our time,

1011
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 6: right when we're young and we're able bodied, and we

1012
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 6: have to do the best we can to move the

1013
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 6: needle for the next generation. So do I think it's

1014
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 6: unrealistic Maybe now in the short term, but in the

1015
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 6: long term, you know, I think anything is possible. The

1016
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 6: fact that in my own lifetime, let's just take my

1017
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 6: own lifetime for example, when I was younger and I

1018
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 6: knew that I was queer, and I knew that I

1019
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 6: would probably end up with a woman for the rest

1020
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 6: of my life, I had to accept in that moment

1021
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 6: that I probably will never get married, would have to

1022
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 6: do fancy estate planning in order for my partner to

1023
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 6: be able to like see me in the hospital and

1024
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 6: to make sure she doesn't get like screwed out of

1025
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 6: our shared assets. But that's changed, right, and I've been

1026
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:52,919
Speaker 6: able to get married and we can file our tax

1027
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:55,640
Speaker 6: returns like normal, and I don't need fancy estate planning

1028
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 6: just to have the same kind of rights that heterosexual

1029
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 6: company have. Within my own lifetime, I you know, I

1030
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 6: have gone from thinking, man, it would be so hard

1031
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 6: to start a business because I'd have to get like

1032
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 6: an office space and I have to like, I don't know,

1033
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 6: take out ads to the newspaper. I don't know what

1034
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 6: they used to do back in the day, but there

1035
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 6: were so many barriers. But then the Internet came along

1036
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 6: and literally I just like put up a website and

1037
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:25,680
Speaker 6: started typing in and you know, working on my copy

1038
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 6: and I'm a business owner and it's going great, and

1039
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 6: I now have the opportunity and the power to help

1040
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 6: others have spread my message to educate people. It's incredible

1041
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 6: what can be achieved within a short amount of time.

1042
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 6: And so I want people to have hope and I

1043
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 6: want them to be realistic as well. And I just

1044
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 6: want people to understand that we have power individually and collectively.

1045
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 6: And I think the sooner that we recognize that, and

1046
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 6: the sooner that we stop focusing on the nonsense and that,

1047
01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 6: you know, the sooner we come together, I think, the better.

1048
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 6: And I do think maybe this is I have a

1049
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 6: flawed sample size, but it does feel like a lot

1050
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 6: of us are starting to recognize the power of the collective.

1051
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 6: I feel like people are talking about co ops and

1052
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 6: people are talking about unions. Like I remember when I

1053
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 6: was in high school, we had to watch like normal

1054
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 6: Ray and I was like, what are we watching this

1055
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 6: weird movie about sally Field and Steel and unionizing? This

1056
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 6: is completely irrelevant. And now I'm like, oh, okay, instead

1057
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 6: of Steel, it's Amazon, Like I get it. So all

1058
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 6: of that is to say I am sometimes overly optimistic,

1059
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:49,680
Speaker 6: but I think in order to be a human being

1060
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 6: here on planet Earth during an uncertain time, to keep

1061
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 6: going every day, you just have to be a fool

1062
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 6: like that.

1063
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 1: You know.

1064
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 4: Oh, you're making me feel a lot more optimistic, So

1065
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 4: thank you for that. We can often, yeah, we can

1066
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 4: often go down this rabbit hole of just like man,

1067
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 4: everything is like not going okay, everything doesn't feel okay.

1068
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 4: But having that injection of optimism is really important, I think,

1069
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:16,120
Speaker 4: And you've done it so excellent.

1070
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 1: Absolutely so well said in fact, I think we end

1071
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:27,000
Speaker 1: it here, Paco. Where can people go to learn more

1072
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:31,520
Speaker 1: about not just the podcast weird Finance, but all of

1073
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:36,480
Speaker 1: your work. I'm thinking specifically of joining the newsletter, the

1074
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 1: Nerd Letter.

1075
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:40,360
Speaker 6: That's exactly where I think everybody should go. If you

1076
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 6: go to the Helligroup dot com, you can sign up

1077
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 6: for my weekly email newsletter called the nerd Letter, and

1078
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 6: every week I will send you a link to the podcast,

1079
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 6: but I'll also send you a bunch of links that

1080
01:02:53,880 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 6: I've found fascinating, interesting, intriguing, compelling enough to share. And

1081
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 6: that way we can stay in contact, and that way

1082
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:08,120
Speaker 6: I can just slowly, quietly remind you every week, hey buddy,

1083
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:10,919
Speaker 6: just you know, give a little bit of a crap

1084
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 6: about your finances. And I'm here for you, and there's

1085
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 6: a bunch of other people here for you, and we're

1086
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 6: all in this together.

1087
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:20,800
Speaker 4: The illustrations on the website alone are worth your time,

1088
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 4: so like, go check those out. When Poco is talking

1089
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 4: about it's got to be entertaining too, there's no messing

1090
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 4: about here. There are very entertaining graphs and illustrations and

1091
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 4: fun things that will I get you'll understand it better

1092
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 4: and you will laugh I.

1093
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 6: Promise I appreciate that. Thank you guys.

1094
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:43,000
Speaker 1: You know, Matt, I know we went a little bit

1095
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 1: long in our conversation with Paco de Leon, but there's

1096
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:48,920
Speaker 1: still so much stuff we didn't get to. Now that

1097
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:51,160
Speaker 1: we have an official financial expert.

1098
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:55,560
Speaker 4: Yes, we have a show financial expert that we can

1099
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 4: call upon for all of our needs. And if you

1100
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 4: ever have questions, please, why don't you send them to

1101
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 4: us and we can transfer them over to Poco or

1102
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 4: you know, just reach out to Poco whatever you want.

1103
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 4: If you want to talk to us, you could find

1104
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 4: us all over the internet. We are conspiracy stuff on

1105
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 4: YouTube and Twitter and Facebook, and we are a conspiracy

1106
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 4: stuff show on TikTok and Instagram.

1107
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 3: And if you.

1108
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 1: Don't sip the social meds, have nary a fear, you

1109
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 1: can call us directly on a telephonic device. Our number

1110
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 1: is one eight three three STDWYTK. You'll hear a familiar voice, hopefully,

1111
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 1: and then you'll hear a beep like so beep after

1112
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 1: that three minutes. Those three minutes are yours. Let those

1113
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 1: ponies run. Tell us what's on your mind. Give yourself

1114
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 1: that cool nickname you always wanted to go by. Most importantly,

1115
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 1: let us know whether we can use your name and

1116
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 1: or voice on the air, if there's some story you

1117
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:56,680
Speaker 1: need to tell us, if there's something on your mind

1118
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 1: that needs more than three minutes, if you have ancillary link,

1119
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 1: if you have photographs, if you have video, We would

1120
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 1: love to learn more. You can send us an email directly.

1121
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 1: We read every message we get at our old fashioned

1122
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:13,240
Speaker 1: address where we.

1123
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:35,600
Speaker 4: Are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff they don't want

1124
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 4: you to know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more

1125
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:42,600
Speaker 4: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1126
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 4: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.