WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 152 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:03.160 Media. 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:05.720 Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:09.400 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:12.639 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.479 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:18.959 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:20.919 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:22.720 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:24.680 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.120 Welcome to it could happen here. It is a beautiful 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:33.160 sunny day in Atlanta, Georgia, which means I think they're 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:35.760 all lying about the weather. They said this hurricane was 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:39.320 going to come, and I'm fine, I don't believe them. 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:42.480 It's all fake. Joined with me today is Mia Wong. 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:44.640 I'm Garrison Davis. Welcome di could happen here? 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:46.760 Welcome man, It's hey. 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:49.080 Look it's cloudy in Portland, so clearly they were telling 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:49.479 the truth. 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:51.519 I don't know what's going on in your reality, but. 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:55.000 I can't believe that the Republicans have hijacked the weather 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:57.720 Control Matrix and are aiming it at Portland, Oregon to 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:02.120 wipe it off the map, to give Oregon to give 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:04.679 Horicans vote to Donald Trump in the next election. 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:07.880 You know, one of my foundational early political memories was 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:11.200 discovering that, like the mid twenty tens era mayor of 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:14.840 Ankara thought that NATO had an earthquake machine that they 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:17.040 were setting off off the coast of Turkey in order 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:20.000 to cause namies during hurricane season, so that because so deep, 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:21.600 NATO could destroy the Turkish economy. 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:22.600 And I hope so now. 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:23.720 We thought that was very funny. 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:28.800 And now every single like major politician did America believe 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:30.240 some shit like that now. 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:33.840 And I was like, oh, everyone has something, not everyone 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:36.560 has the same thing, but everyone has something crazy that 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:38.800 they believe. And that's what we're talking about here today. 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:42.240 So oh boy, it is. It has gotten bad, folks. 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:42.720 Yeah. 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:46.600 As Hurricane Helene and Hurricane Milton brought widespread devastation to 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:50.840 the southeastern United States, politicians, TV anchors, and influencers have 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:53.800 been trying to weaponize the tragedy and the disaster relief 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:58.800 effort for their own partisan electoral gain, particularly via the 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:02.920 use of disinformation. Now, while the government's response to Hurricane 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:07.400 Helene can certainly be criticized, bad fight attacks originating from 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:10.400 the far right have spread wildly online and have been 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:13.760 boosted by Trump and Fox News. Many of these focus 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:17.600 on the Federal Emergency Management Agency, or FEMA, with some 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:20.880 of them connecting to like decades old conspiracy theories about 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:24.320 the agency. Yeah, so this episode, we're going to go 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:28.440 over some of the conspiracy theories and misinformation circulating about 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:32.160 these hurricanes, but not necessarily to like debunk them, because like, 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:34.680 I know who's listening to this, but I think it's 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:38.799 actually more helpful to place them into the larger tapestry 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:42.760 of conspiracy thinking leading into the election and discuss how 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:46.880 modern misinformation has presented a whole new problem that simple 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.240 fact checks aren't equipped to handle. 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:52.640 Hey, Garrison, you are very confident about that, but I 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:55.760 personally know leftists who I have been friends with who 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.680 believe the weather weapons shit. So you never know. 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:01.359 Well, I mean, I do believe that fact checks aren't 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:03.040 going to be the main solution here. 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.160 Oh no, they're not gonna help that. I'm just saying, Look, 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:09.200 there are believers everywhere for the eyes to see. 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:13.040 It's great, That's kind of what I'm saying here. Yeah, Now, 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:17.040 let's start by talking about Donald Trump and FEMA. Oh God, 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:20.200 So some of the misinformation spreading about FEMA right now 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:22.799 includes the claim that the agency is only providing seven 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.640 hundred and fifty dollars in aid to individuals affected by 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:29.359 Hurricane Helene, when actually the seven hundred and fifty dollars 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.120 payments are just the initial really funds to help with 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.880 immediate needs. There's also been claims that FEMA only issues 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:39.040 loans and any relief money received has to be paid back. 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:42.840 This isn't true. Only in rare cases when someone receives 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.120 duplicate funds from FEMA and insurance does money have to 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:48.800 be returned to FEMA. There's also been claims that if 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:52.560 victims fail to pay back FEMA, they will then seize 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:56.080 your property. This is also falls more on this later now. 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:59.360 A TikTok video with over a million views claimed that 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:04.520 FEMA is raiding people's homes to seize supplies. This isn't true. 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:09.840 FEMA doesn't raid people's healths. On a more racist note, 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:12.920 it's claimed that FEMA has run out of money for 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:17.040 hurricane victims because Kamala spent billions of FEMA dollars on 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:21.480 housing for illegal immigrants. At a campaign rally, Donald Trump said, 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:23.840 and I'm not going to do the voice the Harris 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:27.280 Biden administration says they don't have money because they spent 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.880 it all on illegal immigrants. They stole the FEMA money, 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:33.120 just like they stole it from a bank so that 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:37.240 they could give it to their illegal immigrants, unquote. This 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:40.279 lie was also shared by Sean Hannity on Fox News, 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:43.279 and even when confronted with facts that discredit this claim, 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:46.880 commentators on Fox still insist that even though it's not 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:50.320 technically true, it still feels true. 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:53.800 It may not be actually true that FEMA resources that 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:56.080 could have been available in North Carolina have been given 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:59.000 to migrants, but there's no question about the broad orientation 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:02.599 of FEMA the Biden Harris administration, which has been to 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:05.760 channel huge amounts of money to communities and to non 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:09.280 governmental organizations to help with the massive influx of migrants 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:10.760 that they themselves have created. 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:14.040 And this is a fun one too, because like there 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:16.800 is FEMA underfunding. But the reason there's FEMA underfunding is 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:18.839 it Republicans keep voting not to give it more money. 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:23.440 Yes, which like oh boy, I mean again, like this 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:25.520 is a big part of the Republican strategy just making 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.400 life worse for everybody so that everyone's more angry so 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:31.320 that people will vote Republican. And that's that is the 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:34.160 strategy they want, because as long as they're as long 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:38.080 as their base is doing badly and like upset and angry, 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:39.880 they will find some way to blame it on the 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.640 opposition and then vote in Republican. This has been the 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.599 conservative governmental strategy for decades. 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:47.960 Yeah, do all the terrible stuff and then blame the 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.040 stuff that you did on immigrants, which, yeah, good times, 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:53.360 love this country, great stuff happening. 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.599 A famously reliable strategy. Trump's also lied about the governor 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:58.920 of Georgia not being able to get in contact with 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:03.600 President Biden coordinate disaster relief efforts, when in fact they 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:07.000 had spoken to day prior. Trump also claimed that the 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:10.040 federal government and the North Carolina Democratic governor have been 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.279 quote going out of their way to not help people 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:17.120 in Republican areas unquote. This is also completely false that 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:19.720 there were more isolated areas in North Carolina that were 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:22.880 harder to reach, but people are trying to get there, 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:25.480 and in fact, some of the hardest reach areas were 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:29.080 actually immigrant communities who were too scared to like actually 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:31.800 ask for federal help out of fear they would be deported. 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:35.560 So like, yes, there actually is people really struggling to 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:38.440 get a relief, but it's not by and large your 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:42.920 Trump voters. Like again, certainly the relief efforts managed by 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:45.560 the government have had their fair share of problems. People 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:47.680 are not getting all the help they need. But this 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:50.880 is not a conspiracy by the Democratic governor to deprive 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:55.400 Republicans of hurricane relief. Like, that's not true. Now, Trump's 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.360 falsehoods about the hurricane and the disaster response in service 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:01.719 of his reelection campaign have signaled that it's aok for 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:06.240 Republicans to spread all manner of hurricane conspiracy theories targeting 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.920 the federal government. Oh boy, and this is where we're 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:13.760 gonna get into the newest conspiracy theory sweeping the nation, 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:18.800 that the government controls the weather, all of the weather, 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:23.560 especially hurricanes. Now, this is not a new conspiracy theory. 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:26.440 Certainly, I'm so sick of the weather weapon shit. 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.640 But the fact that we have sitting congressman, including Mantorie 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:33.440 Taylor Green from Georgia, who is riding this thing like 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:36.600 a fucking horse is a little bit wild. She has 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:40.440 been posting NonStop the past week about how quote unquote 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:45.480 they control the weather. I wonder what they means. She 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:49.440 has been attributing the weather modification to a few different agencies, 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:52.520 including the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:58.400 Yeah, sure of sure, no one's doing this, like comeine. 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:02.280 She has posted me that prove that they're controlling the 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:07.000 weather because they list a whole bunch of weather modification patents. Now, 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.120 the funny thing is is that most of these patents 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:11.440 are like over one hundred years old, if many of 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:16.239 them are expired. Yeah, these patents contain plans to drop 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:20.880 water from balloons to produce rain. That's the weather modification 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:24.360 she's talking about. She included a patent that includes like 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:28.160 a way to use like airplane exhaust to blow away 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:32.240 poison gas from like trenches. That's chemtrails, Garrison, it's chemtrails. 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:34.240 It's absurd. All of these things are like are like 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:39.079 ancient patents and like weather modification is a real thing technically, 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:42.320 like we have been trying to alter the weather. One 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.800 of the pointed to like real technologies is cloud seating. 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:49.760 Cloud seating is a small scale technology to alter clouds precipitation, 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:53.440 usually to increase the cloud's ability to produce localized rain. 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:57.040 By adding ice or condensation nuclei into the forming clouds. 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:01.680 This helps areas suffering from drought and low Reall cloud 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:06.439 seating has been jumped upon by Republican conspiracy theorists as 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:10.000 proof that the government is actually engaging in a massive 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:15.280 weather control operation, including to produce hurricanes. Now, hurricanes are 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:19.520 famously quite large, and it is impossible to determine the 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:23.160 path or cause one to happen. This just simply isn't true. 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:27.080 Yeah, And I mean the largest scale like attempts to 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.959 manipulate whether that humanity has ever done like on purpose 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:33.840 that wasn't global warming was from two thousand and eight 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:37.839 Olympics in Beijing, and it took. It took the entire industrial, 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:42.559 technological and scientific capacity of a nation of one billion 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:48.000 people and putting like an unfathomable amount of resources and 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:52.280 planning and like logistical capability at specifically not making it 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:54.439 ran in Beijing for like a fairly small amount of 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:58.160 time and lowering the air pollution levels. They barely managed 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:01.360 to pull that off, so they they sort of kind 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:03.680 of made the weather better in one city for like 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.840 two weeks. And that took a a level of resource 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:14.120 coordination like fucking unfathomable, like most human history like that. 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.480 It's it's it's very challenging to alter the weather. It 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:20.800 requires it requires a lot of resources. No, it doesn't, 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:22.120 it doesn't work very well. 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.840 Like that's like shut down factories across like half the country, 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.640 Like it was fiasco, And like these people. 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:33.120 Aren't actually like talking about that. They're talking about conspiratorial 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.840 efforts from the federal government's illuminati to to like to 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:40.360 like target hurricanes. Yeah, like on certain red states to 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:42.360 alter the election. Like that, that's that's really what they're 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:44.840 talking about. Conspiracy theorists and the right have pointed it 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:50.280 to HARP University of Alaska Fairbreaks program, not the HARP 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:56.319 that uses high frequency equipment to study the upper atmosphere. 0:10:56.360 --> 0:11:01.120 According to Reuters, no atmospheric monitoring equipment do not alter 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:05.000 the weather. Conspiracy theorists have also targeted Doppler radios and 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:09.280 next rad basically like radar control systems and radio control 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:13.920 systems as being used to change weather patterns and cause hurricanes. This, 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:16.160 this isn't true. You can't change the weather with a 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:20.800 radio or with radar. Again, like we're not debunking this 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:23.720 because this is so No, this is so ludicrous, But 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:26.240 these are the conspiracy theories that they're invoking, and like 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:29.520 and like Harp, conspiracy theories do go back quite a while. 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:33.120 I've seen a few other things talking about like direct 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:37.640 energy weapons and lasers from space or lasers from the 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:40.880 ground pointed out the atmosphere which caused hurricanes to form. 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:43.880 This also isn't real. We cannot cause a hurricane deform. 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:44.720 It's it's too big. 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:46.960 And the thing about this stuff is like these are 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:49.679 all old conspiracies, right, but it's like these are things 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:51.400 that used to be like like you would you would 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:53.440 walk into a room full of guys who believe that 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:56.040 nine to eleven was staged with holograms and that MK 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:58.679 all to successfully produced mind control that was originally developed 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.840 by North Korea, and those people would laugh the like 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:04.400 harp idiots out of the room. Yeah, it was a 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:09.920 conspiracy scene by other conspiracy theorists as like too obviously bullshit, 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:11.480 Like do you. 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:13.000 Know what isn't bullshit? Meya? 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:15.760 Is it the product of services that support this podcast? 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:16.440 It sure is. 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.320 The MyPillow guy, you try to sell gold, now here 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:32.200 we go get your gold. All right, we are back. 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:34.239 But yes, these conspiracy theories. 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:36.760 Have existed for a long time talking about some degree 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.840 of the government's ability to influence natural disasters and like 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.480 big weather events. People have tried to blame forest fires 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:47.959 on lasers. Specifically the Maui fires from a few years ago, 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:52.040 they said were actually caused by direct energy weapons to 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:53.960 get people to flee their land so that it could 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:56.880 be seized by the federal government. All this kind of stuff. Now, 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.880 like some of them also point to like geo engineering, right, 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:04.199 they say that although geoengineering is said to conduct climate change, 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:09.760 it actually causes climate change. Geoengineering there's technically a few forms, 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.560 but the one that we're talking about basically like injects 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:16.440 aricized chemicals into the atmosphere to reflect some light. Obviously 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:20.559 reflecting some lights, not gonna make a hurricane worse, but whatever. 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.800 So this has gotten really bad. This has taken over 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:26.960 a significant portion of the online right to the point 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.400 that even people like Dysantis are having to come out 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.320 and say, hey, guys, no, this that this isn't real. 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:35.360 In a press conference, Dysantis claimed that there are in 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:39.120 fact weather conspiracies quote on both sides. 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.880 Uh huh, yeah. By one friend. 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.199 You kind of have some people who think the government 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.840 can do this, and others think it's because of fossil 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:48.040 fuels unquote. 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:49.520 Oh my fucking guy. 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:56.480 Has communication director later reiterated the claim, saying, quote, the 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.599 government controls the other crowd and the global warming and 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.960 climate change alarmists are two sides of the same coin, 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:09.160 unscientific agenda, motivated and unhelpful. Following a storm, weather is 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:14.280 weather unquote Jesus Christ. Even in their refutation of the 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:17.280 weather controlling conspiracies, they cannot help but dip into some 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.760 climate denial conspiracies. We love to see it. 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:20.800 Oh my god. 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:25.160 Now I think like hurricanes and natural disasters are uniquely 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:29.360 susceptible to misinformation. During times of crisis, people try to 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.720 search for information to relieve stress, and they often don't 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:37.080 take the extra time to verify said information. Whenever a 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:40.760 new natural disaster strikes, old footage and videos circulate, being 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:44.360 passed off as current events. Conversations and arguments about climate 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:48.280 change and climate denial also spark during natural disasters, leading 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:52.280 to a surge of climate change conspiracy theories. While this 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:56.520 is nothing new, the way people are getting information is 0:14:56.640 --> 0:15:00.520 changing with the increased use of AI chat bought personal 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:06.560 assistance and image generation. There was this TikTok trend ahead 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:11.040 of Hurricane Milton where you ask in Amazon Alexa what 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.480 the result of the hurricane was going to be before 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.280 it hit landfall. I'm gonna play this video that has 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:18.840 over two million views on Twitter. 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:24.880 Alexa how many laves were lost during Hurricane Milton. Overall? 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.720 Extreme Hurricane Milton caused twenty one point three billion dollars 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.840 in damages and caused two hundred and sixty two fatalities 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:37.200 October eighth, twenty twenty four, twelve to fifteen pm Central Time. 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:43.280 Very scary now. This other video has over seven hundred 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.560 and fifty thousand views on TikTok Alexa. 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:49.360 What kind of hurricane is Hurricane Milton? 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:55.400 From fandom dot com. Hurricane Milton was an extremely powerful 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:59.360 Category five hurricane that caused widespread damage across its path 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:05.040 in October four. They've already predicted the outcome from your wife. 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:05.800 So. 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:11.960 That one may have given you a hint about what's 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:16.040 going on here. Obviously, Alexa doesn't know the future, nor 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:18.920 has the government pre programmed data about It's a secret 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:23.440 weather control program into your eco device. Alexa just pulls 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:27.640 from information it finds online, in this case fandom dot 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:32.320 com hypothetical hurricanes wiki Are You Fucking? Which is a 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:37.680 wiki which is a wiki based comprehensive database of hypothetical 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:42.280 tropical cyclone articles that anyone can edite. 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:44.320 You know, I said, I said as a I said 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:45.920 as a joke a couple of years ago that we 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:50.280 were about two years out from the QAnon people discovering 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:52.600 the plot of metal gear solid and believing it was real. 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.840 But like, we're so close to that now we are 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.520 two months out from them from from an AI telling 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:00.560 them the plot of metal gear solid and then believing 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:02.240 the patriots secretly control the government. 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:06.800 They're quoting from a fandom wiki on fake hurricanes that 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:09.720 people make for fun, and it can be manipulated in 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:11.960 the lead up to a hurricane specifically to cause this 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:15.480 type of reaction. Again, like as a bit right, it's 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:19.160 absurd now to go even further into this AI singularity. 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:19.640 Hell hole. 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:20.240 Oh no. 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.240 A Twitter user tried to debunk that first video I played, 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:27.000 predicting the death toll. In the replies, this other user wrote, quote, 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:29.960 there was a Hurricane Milton in the year two thousand. 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:34.000 Please before you post, at least try to fact check 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:41.520 with Groc unquote. They include a Grock AI screenshot that reads, quote, 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:44.200 the name Milton has been used for one hurricane in 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:47.919 the Atlantic basin. Hurricane Milton occurred in two thousand. However, 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.359 for the twenty twenty four hurricane season, there was another 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:52.960 hurricane Milton. Thinking it the second time this name has 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:54.720 been used for an Atlantic hurricane. 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:56.000 Unquote. 0:17:56.080 --> 0:18:01.679 So in argument then ensued about which AI is wrecked quote. 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:05.800 Grock and chat GPT disagree on the existence of a 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:10.080 prior hurricane Milton. Groc says, prior to the twenty twenty 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:13.119 four hurricane season, there were no hurricanes named Milton in 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:17.200 the Atlantic. Next, I asked chat GPT Hurricane Milton, which 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.640 occurd in the year nineteen ninety caused significant damage, particularly 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:24.040 in Mexico where it made landfall. I asked chat GPT 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.600 a second time. Was there a Milton hurricane in two thousand? 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:31.199 Chat GPT said, yes, there was a Hurricane Milton in 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.600 two thousand. It formed in the Eastern Pacific in late December. 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:40.720 You know, another person replied, saying, Grock states a two 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:45.600 thousand hurricane named Milton struck struck Nicaragua in two thousand, 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.320 but it doesn't show up on the National Weather Services 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:53.960 hurricane tracking charts for two thousand unquote. Very curious. It's insane. 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.800 It's insane. These people are using chat, GPT, and grock 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:01.880 ai as search engines, and when they hallucinate to take data, 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:05.679 they're alleging some kind of conspiracy theory to suppress data 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:08.840 on a previous hurricane Milton, I mean, and it's also 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:11.600 just worse, like having like this person condescend, being like, 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.480 please before you post, try to fact check with grok. 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:16.800 You're like, what the fuck are you talking about? Groc 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:21.040 is a comedy AI chatbot that's going to generate you 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:25.080 like a nonsense response. It's not a fact checking tool, 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.280 it's not even a search engine. They're just hallucinating data 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:30.520 that people are then passing off as real information. 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:34.280 I think I kind of feel for these people in 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:37.280 the sense that, like, if you live through the twenty tens, 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:38.800 the thing that you were able to do, and that 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:40.840 you were trained to do, was that you had a question, 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:42.880 you would type it into Google and sometimes it would 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:43.720 give you the right answer. 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:44.040 Yeah. 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:44.440 Right. 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:49.119 But now it's like a machine has been created that 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:51.639 answers to question. What if Google never gave you the 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:54.280 correct answer. And all of these people have been trained 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:56.399 that they can put this into the Internet and it 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:59.239 will give them the correct answer, except now we have 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.320 a machine that destories the entire Amazon every single second 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:04.280 in order to generate the wrong answer. 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.440 Well, and like specifically because of how these like AI 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:10.679 systems have been politicized with like Elon Musk and stuff like, 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.480 Republicans view it as like a political imperative to use 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:18.520 them over the Democrat leaning like search engines, and people 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:20.520 aren't just turning to AI and Louse search engine, They're 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.479 also using TikTok. They're also now using x as their 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:27.080 own search engine to get reliable information from users instead 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:30.160 of actually like verified information online which you can find 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:32.600 with a little bit of searching. So all this is 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:36.199 creating a quite volatile scenario where misinformation is spreading at 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:39.280 a faster pace than it really ever has before. Now, 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:42.159 just like in the Springfield pet eating hoax, people on 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:44.840 the right are also spreading AI images as evidence of 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:48.320 how the Biden Harris government failed their disaster relief response 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.879 after Hurricane Helene. The most circulated image is of a 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:55.960 crying little girl wearing a life vest holding a wet puppy. 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:59.919 Oh no, she is sitting in a boat surrounded by floodwater. 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:02.040 This is this is pure boomer. 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:05.520 Bait, right like, yeah, you will never regret liking this post. 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.600 Rolling Stone traced this AI image to a Trump web 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:13.439 forum called Patriots dot Win Oh God, and like users 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:16.680 there quickly saw that it was AI, but that didn't 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:20.359 stop its spread online. The image she got on Twitter 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.240 and was spread around after being posted by Utah Senator 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:28.080 Mike Lee, who has a dark mega profile picture. I'm 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:31.760 going to quote from Rolling Stone quote. Laura Lumer called 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:35.920 the image sad, quote, tweeting from a post by Buzz Patterson, 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:39.399 columnist for the conservative blog Red State, who wrote of 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:44.000 the picture, our government has failed us again. Amy Kamier, RNC, 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:47.560 national committeewoman for the Georgia GOP and the co founder 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:50.240 of Women for Trump, tweeted on Thursday that the image 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:54.439 has been quote seared into my mind unquote. Informed that 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:58.879 she was not looking at an authentic photo. Kermer doubled down, y'all, 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:01.560 I don't know where this photo came from, and honestly 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:05.080 it doesn't matter. There are people going through much worse 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:07.560 than what is shown in this pic. So I'm leaving 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:10.080 it up because it's the emblematic of the trauma and 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:13.960 the pain people are living through right now. Unquote. Oh 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:16.760 my god. So I get like at this point, people 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:19.920 know they're spreading fake information, but they're doing it anyway 0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:22.639 because it helps them, like they are willing participants in 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:26.800 the complete removal of reality from their constituent's brains. A 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:30.000 mega Twitter account posted this AI photo with the girl 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:33.600 in the puppy and wrote, quote, Kamala doesn't have enough 0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:38.199 money for this child. I can't hate this administration enough unquote, 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:41.480 Oh my god. So do you know what I can't 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:42.080 hate enough? 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:42.159 No? 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:42.439 No? 0:22:42.560 --> 0:22:42.679 Uh? 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:46.240 Do you know what I love dearly with my full 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:48.000 my full life force? 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:51.160 Is it products? Services? Yeah? 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:53.480 It's the products and services at support this podcast. Listen 0:22:53.520 --> 0:23:05.280 to them. We will be right back afterwards. Okay, we 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:09.760 return to conclude our Hurricane Missing Foe run down. So 0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:13.440 why is this stuff catching on? Like, what's happening that's 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:16.000 causing this to be so much worse than usual? What's 0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:18.679 going on? Why is this spreading right now? To answer 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:20.800 that question, I'm first going to read a tweet from 0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:24.520 Candice Taylor, a Georgia candidate for governor back in twenty 0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:28.800 twenty two. Quote, the weather can and is being manipulated. 0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:32.679 Wake up, Stop being ignorant or plain stupid. There's no 0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:35.679 such thing as coincidence. The most important election in the 0:23:35.720 --> 0:23:40.280 history of America is thirty days away. Pray Georgia. Voting 0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:42.240 has been compromised, and I don't know if we will 0:23:42.280 --> 0:23:44.920 be able to get all of our early voting days in. 0:23:45.560 --> 0:23:49.080 Now a hurricane is coming straight for Florida. These two 0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:54.840 states are necessary for our Trump victory. No coincidence, So, 0:23:55.920 --> 0:24:00.000 of course this is all a conspiracy to send hurricane 0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:04.120 specifically at red states to compromise Trump's ability to win 0:24:04.160 --> 0:24:07.360 the election. A woman at a Trump rally explained that 0:24:07.359 --> 0:24:10.119 that the government is using cloud seating to make the 0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:13.400 hurricanes worse, and that this was pre planned because Amazon 0:24:13.440 --> 0:24:16.520 Alexas already knew the information about the hurricanes ahead of time. 0:24:16.880 --> 0:24:19.480 Her reasoning was that the hurricane damaged land could be 0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:23.439 seized for lithium mining by Kamala Harris's husband, and that 0:24:23.560 --> 0:24:27.560 the weather was controlled to rig the election against Trump. Now, 0:24:27.840 --> 0:24:31.160 this little tidbit about Kamala's husband that a nice little 0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:34.520 anti semitic jab in there. Of course, the Jews are 0:24:34.520 --> 0:24:37.600 controlling the weather to do lithium mining. Why not? And 0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:40.840 I'm not going to play a short clip from this interview, 0:24:40.840 --> 0:24:42.359 not the whole thing, so it's way too long, and 0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:45.200 she rambles about cloud seating for longer than I want 0:24:45.240 --> 0:24:48.600 to include, but I will include this one short clip. 0:24:48.640 --> 0:24:54.080 You're implying that the government made a hurricane stronger to 0:24:54.280 --> 0:24:57.240 hurt its own country, the United States of America? 0:24:57.560 --> 0:24:57.960 Correct? 0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:01.800 And what would be the gain of that when if. 0:25:01.680 --> 0:25:04.600 You like, there's been people out there, if they have 0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:06.719 an alexa, I don't know. If you've heard that and 0:25:06.760 --> 0:25:11.440 they've asked what caused Milton, you can go on there now. 0:25:11.440 --> 0:25:13.680 It's already predicted the number of deaths and the amount 0:25:13.680 --> 0:25:17.800 of it's already predicted it On a Google it won't 0:25:17.840 --> 0:25:20.760 do that. If you ask it about Halleen, it'll tell 0:25:20.800 --> 0:25:26.440 you the government actively used seed clouding. This is before 0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:27.680 Helen even happened. 0:25:27.720 --> 0:25:30.000 Why would a country want to have a hurricane be 0:25:30.119 --> 0:25:34.240 strong and hit its own country. 0:25:32.880 --> 0:25:36.600 Because they want to control certain places. And if you're 0:25:36.640 --> 0:25:39.679 looking at where the hurricane's going, it's a lot of 0:25:39.760 --> 0:25:43.400 red states. If you're looking at the counties in North Carolina, 0:25:43.640 --> 0:25:46.640 that were hit. There are all of them. Twenty six 0:25:46.680 --> 0:25:49.200 out of twenty eight of those counties were for Trump. 0:25:49.480 --> 0:25:52.560 They're doing whatever they can because they can't. 0:25:52.280 --> 0:25:54.040 Rig the election, even control the weather. 0:25:54.400 --> 0:25:58.440 Yes, very compelling stuff coming out of the Trump rallies. 0:25:58.720 --> 0:25:59.680 Jesus Christ. 0:26:00.040 --> 0:26:02.000 I'm going to quote from a Media Matters article on 0:26:02.200 --> 0:26:05.920 hurricane misinformation and conspiracy theories. Quote. A video with over 0:26:06.000 --> 0:26:09.240 sixty four thousand views has on screen text that reads 0:26:09.640 --> 0:26:13.160 were at the point of revolution. It features a user 0:26:13.200 --> 0:26:17.440 speculating for over six minutes that Hurricane Helene was somehow 0:26:17.520 --> 0:26:21.360 part of a plan to suppress white Republican votes. Quote. 0:26:21.680 --> 0:26:23.440 You might be able to speculate that this is something 0:26:23.480 --> 0:26:25.800 to do with the fact that these are largely white 0:26:26.200 --> 0:26:29.240 rule Appalachian areas that have been affected. They're looking at 0:26:29.280 --> 0:26:31.720 it like this, this election is three weeks from now. 0:26:31.840 --> 0:26:34.960 We've just wiped out the complete and total infrastructure for 0:26:35.040 --> 0:26:38.960 all these towns and cities. That's great, because guess which 0:26:39.000 --> 0:26:42.320 way these towns leaned. They leaned red. These were largely 0:26:42.400 --> 0:26:46.000 Republican leading towns. As far as they're concerned, they could 0:26:46.080 --> 0:26:49.920 all die and they don't care because that's just one 0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:54.560 less vote for Trump. Unquote yes, Asheville, North Carolina, famously 0:26:55.359 --> 0:27:01.439 famously a Republican town, famously the conservative paradise of Asheville. 0:27:03.359 --> 0:27:05.760 Now a lot of these conspiracies also link up to 0:27:06.000 --> 0:27:10.120 very old like FEMA conspiracies. Right, there's been conspiracies about 0:27:10.160 --> 0:27:13.640 FEMA since like the nineteen eighties. They've been heavily tied 0:27:13.680 --> 0:27:16.120 in with the militia movement. The formation of the Oath 0:27:16.200 --> 0:27:20.520 Keepers was in response to FEMA concentration conspiracy theories basically 0:27:20.520 --> 0:27:23.399 that they'll use natural disasters and FEMA to like round 0:27:23.480 --> 0:27:26.920 up patriots to do some kind of new World order, 0:27:27.400 --> 0:27:29.440 or that they're gonna use FEMA to seize your land 0:27:29.480 --> 0:27:31.639 so then you're gonna be put in a FEMA concentration camp. 0:27:32.080 --> 0:27:35.440 Very old conspiracies. Now these have kind of fed into 0:27:35.440 --> 0:27:39.760 the current conspiracy matrix regarding the hurricanes. I'm gonna quote 0:27:39.760 --> 0:27:43.600 from this one guy on Twitter called the health Ranger. No, 0:27:43.760 --> 0:27:45.520 not the health Ranger. 0:27:46.320 --> 0:27:47.760 No me. 0:27:47.800 --> 0:27:50.439 And do you know who the health Ranger is? 0:27:51.600 --> 0:27:55.879 Yeah, the health Ranger is is a frequent Alex Jodes guest. 0:27:56.119 --> 0:27:58.359 Yes, yes, like an anti vax guy. 0:27:58.800 --> 0:28:02.320 And Ale He's a whole thing in in this whole 0:28:02.400 --> 0:28:03.520 conspiracy universe. 0:28:03.560 --> 0:28:06.359 I hate him so much. He does, and this is 0:28:06.560 --> 0:28:08.919 this is what he says about the current hurricanes quote 0:28:09.080 --> 0:28:14.240 no in coming intel all caps. FEMA is waiving ungodly 0:28:14.280 --> 0:28:17.560 amounts of money at private security firms right now, begging 0:28:17.760 --> 0:28:21.960 for security contractors to station at Florida to prevent Floridians 0:28:21.960 --> 0:28:25.480 from returning to their homes and businesses after the storm hits. 0:28:26.160 --> 0:28:29.080 The evacuation orders are to push people out of Florida 0:28:29.320 --> 0:28:34.080 and keep them out. Reportedly, delta force personnel advising FEMA 0:28:34.160 --> 0:28:38.800 at the top devising denial of area enforcement plans which 0:28:38.840 --> 0:28:42.680 will be enforced at gunpoint if required. I'm told FEMA 0:28:42.760 --> 0:28:46.600 is practically panicked to get enough armed personnel on site, 0:28:46.800 --> 0:28:50.600 anticipating a tremendous amount of resistance from displaced people who 0:28:50.680 --> 0:28:53.400 want to return home to salvage whatever they can. This 0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:56.360 is the next step up the escalation ladder as the 0:28:56.360 --> 0:28:59.200 federal government wages war against the American people, as we 0:28:59.240 --> 0:29:02.480 saw FEMA care bring out in North Carolina, actively hindering 0:29:02.520 --> 0:29:06.840 rescue efforts to maximize starvation and death to the people. 0:29:07.360 --> 0:29:11.240 Do not escalate. Hold your ground peacefully and firmly. This 0:29:11.320 --> 0:29:13.720 looks a lot like a J six style trap to 0:29:13.760 --> 0:29:17.440 provoke an insurrection and declare martial law to cancel the election. 0:29:18.000 --> 0:29:23.200 Don't play into their hands. Unquote. This unhinged diatribe got 0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:26.040 over ten thousand likes and was spread wildly around Twitter. 0:29:26.520 --> 0:29:29.360 A few days ago, the Institute for Strategic Dialogue posted 0:29:29.400 --> 0:29:33.720 an article documenting this current conspiracy ecosystem, and they included 0:29:33.760 --> 0:29:38.800 one TikTok video that stated, quote to my North Carolina families, please, 0:29:39.120 --> 0:29:42.560 I know it's hard, but please do not take that 0:29:42.680 --> 0:29:45.640 seven hundred and fifty dollars. It's alone, and if you 0:29:45.640 --> 0:29:49.040 don't pay it back, they will seize your property. In 0:29:49.080 --> 0:29:52.720 response to this, FEMA clearly stated that FEMA cannot seize 0:29:52.720 --> 0:29:56.120 your property or land. Applying for disaster assistance does not 0:29:56.160 --> 0:29:59.520 grant FEMA or the federal government authority or ownership over 0:29:59.520 --> 0:30:03.720 your property your land. So now we have these conspiracy 0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:08.440 theorists which are being boosted by Republican officials basically encouraging 0:30:08.440 --> 0:30:12.640 people to resist help from FEMA, to not evacuate, and 0:30:12.800 --> 0:30:16.040 like all of this puts themselves and others in great danger. Right, 0:30:16.120 --> 0:30:18.800 you might say, well, if conspiracy theorists don't want help 0:30:18.800 --> 0:30:21.760 from from FEMA, like what's the harm, right, Well, these 0:30:21.760 --> 0:30:23.840 people have like kids, like these these people have families. 0:30:24.080 --> 0:30:26.040 It's not just them that are going to be affected. 0:30:26.240 --> 0:30:29.120 If they're refusing to evacuate their family from from the 0:30:29.120 --> 0:30:32.200 path of a hurricane and like their kids die, that's 0:30:32.200 --> 0:30:35.600 super fucked up. If they're refusing like help from FEMA 0:30:35.880 --> 0:30:39.120 to like feed themselves in their family, that's that's not 0:30:39.240 --> 0:30:43.040 a good sign of the current state of this country. Yeah, yeah, 0:30:43.240 --> 0:30:46.760 like it's it's bad. Rondasantis's press secretary had to come 0:30:46.800 --> 0:30:51.760 out against the the unhinged ramble from health ranger on Twitter. 0:30:52.120 --> 0:30:55.320 She quote tweeted his post saying spreading lives like this 0:30:55.360 --> 0:30:59.000 could have serious consequences. If people in evacuation zones see 0:30:59.000 --> 0:31:01.960 this and decide not to evacuate despite warnings from state 0:31:02.000 --> 0:31:05.800 and local emergency management, they are unnecessarily putting their own 0:31:05.840 --> 0:31:08.960 lives and the lives of first responders at grave risk. 0:31:09.200 --> 0:31:16.120 Unquote wow the wow, Well, the fucking Rhondas sandus Is 0:31:16.200 --> 0:31:19.520 press person. The leopards are finally eating your face af 0:31:19.560 --> 0:31:21.520 you joined the lebregating faith party. 0:31:21.600 --> 0:31:24.480 Wow. Who could possibly have predicted this? The Raw Decientists 0:31:24.480 --> 0:31:27.000 team has been replaced by the lizard people. I swear. 0:31:28.600 --> 0:31:28.680 No. 0:31:29.080 --> 0:31:31.360 I think it's got so bad that in DeSantis' like 0:31:31.360 --> 0:31:34.800 emergency declaration, he had to specifically put in language that 0:31:34.880 --> 0:31:37.320 stated that law enforcement will help ensure that people can 0:31:37.360 --> 0:31:41.680 return to their property after the evacuation has ended. Like goofy, 0:31:41.760 --> 0:31:44.720 goofy shit. And just like in general, all these FEMA 0:31:44.760 --> 0:31:48.120 conspiracies are preventing people in need from requesting a badly 0:31:48.120 --> 0:31:50.880 needed help from the agency. I'm going to include this 0:31:50.920 --> 0:31:53.480 one clip from this guy who was interviewed on MSNBC 0:31:53.840 --> 0:31:56.600 talking about how his family has been refusing help in 0:31:56.640 --> 0:31:57.440 North Carolina. 0:31:58.480 --> 0:32:02.400 My father in law lives just outside of Asheville, North Carolina, 0:32:02.600 --> 0:32:06.520 and he was badly damaged by Hurricane Helene. And he 0:32:06.600 --> 0:32:10.360 has refused all FEMA help because he's a hardcore Trumper 0:32:10.440 --> 0:32:13.959 and he believes, he literally believes that he accepts anything 0:32:14.000 --> 0:32:16.120 from FEMA. They're going to take his house. I don't 0:32:16.200 --> 0:32:20.200 understand how so many people are under the spell of 0:32:20.280 --> 0:32:22.880 this freaking con man. I don't understand it. 0:32:24.080 --> 0:32:27.240 Well, it's absolutely heartbreaking about your father in law. I'm 0:32:27.240 --> 0:32:29.760 so sorry to hear it. 0:32:29.760 --> 0:32:33.479 It's you know, and it's hard just it's hard to 0:32:33.520 --> 0:32:36.560 even imagine it. I mean, he lost almost everything, and 0:32:36.600 --> 0:32:40.480 he's refusing all help from the federal government and complaining 0:32:40.520 --> 0:32:42.640 to us that he doesn't have food, that he doesn't 0:32:42.640 --> 0:32:45.040 have the stuff he needs, and yet he won't accept 0:32:45.040 --> 0:32:46.880 the help. What the hell are we supposed to do. 0:32:47.440 --> 0:32:48.960 We're not in a position to be able to fly 0:32:49.000 --> 0:32:53.920 across the country and help him. There's people begging us 0:32:54.160 --> 0:32:58.640 to get him to accept help, and he won't do it. Wow, 0:33:01.080 --> 0:33:03.560 And I guarantee you I'm not the only one. I 0:33:03.600 --> 0:33:09.640 guarantee you I'm not the only one. 0:33:10.280 --> 0:33:12.360 I wish there was something I could say as to 0:33:13.800 --> 0:33:15.560 you know, I don't know, is there. Does he have 0:33:15.720 --> 0:33:18.920 access to any electronics where you could send him some 0:33:18.960 --> 0:33:21.840 information debunking this and that he might We've. 0:33:21.680 --> 0:33:23.840 Done all of that. We've done all of that. We've 0:33:23.880 --> 0:33:26.520 sent him, We've sent him all the them of bulletins, 0:33:26.600 --> 0:33:28.840 we've sent him all the stuff from the fact checkers. 0:33:29.120 --> 0:33:32.400 He doesn't believe it. He thinks it's all. He just 0:33:32.520 --> 0:33:36.600 believes Trump. Literally, Dan, he just it's a cult. He's 0:33:36.720 --> 0:33:38.680 a cult member. I'm sorry to say it. He's a 0:33:39.200 --> 0:33:43.600 He's a cult member, and he's my father in law. 0:33:43.640 --> 0:33:44.400 And it sucks. 0:33:45.160 --> 0:33:48.800 That's pretty bad. That's uh, that's devastating, and I think 0:33:48.840 --> 0:33:52.600 that is very resonant to a lot of people right now. 0:33:52.920 --> 0:33:57.800 And how this whole like conspiracy Missymphilico system that's been 0:33:57.840 --> 0:33:59.600 getting worse silly over the course of the eight years 0:33:59.600 --> 0:34:03.120 has just like ruined families and puts people in like 0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:09.560 constant active danger. Now, these conspiracies have also led to 0:34:09.680 --> 0:34:14.000 threats against FEMA workers and meteorologists for both being a 0:34:14.000 --> 0:34:17.440 part of the conspiracy and for controlling the weather. I'm 0:34:17.480 --> 0:34:20.640 going to read a quote from the Institute for Strategic Dialogue. 0:34:20.719 --> 0:34:24.759 Quote falsehoods around hurricane response have spawned credible threats and 0:34:24.840 --> 0:34:27.680 incitement to violence directed at the federal government. This includes 0:34:27.719 --> 0:34:30.480 calls to send militias to face down FEMA for the 0:34:30.520 --> 0:34:34.880 perceived denial of aid, and that individuals should quote unquote 0:34:34.960 --> 0:34:41.000 shoot FEMA officials and the agency's emergency responders. Unverified claims 0:34:41.000 --> 0:34:43.719 abou attacks on FEMA representatives have been used to glorify 0:34:43.800 --> 0:34:48.200 and encourage violence unquote. Media matters archived at TikTok video 0:34:48.320 --> 0:34:52.879 threatening a FEMA employees, which received over two hundred thousand views, saying, 0:34:52.960 --> 0:34:57.160 quote deer FEDS and FEMA if you're trying to deny 0:34:57.200 --> 0:35:00.560 people access to help in the affected area. Be advised, 0:35:00.800 --> 0:35:05.200 we're still under the War on Terror emergency declaration. If 0:35:05.239 --> 0:35:08.719 you violate your constitutional oath to protect and assist, the 0:35:08.880 --> 0:35:13.719 charge will be treason. Punishment can mean being unalived immediately 0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:20.440 by the citizens you are withholding aid from unquote on TikTok. 0:35:20.440 --> 0:35:23.080 They're threatening to unalive governmentations. 0:35:28.040 --> 0:35:29.600 Another mineo states. 0:35:29.360 --> 0:35:32.719 Quote public notice we the United States of America had 0:35:32.719 --> 0:35:36.000 declared FEMA personnel engaged in obstructing local rescue efforts in 0:35:36.000 --> 0:35:39.359 the area impacted by Hurricane Helen to be enemies of 0:35:39.400 --> 0:35:43.080 the state. A FEMA personnel offer any further obstruction or 0:35:43.120 --> 0:35:45.759 failed to immediately assist to their best ability, they can 0:35:45.800 --> 0:35:51.239 be arrested or shot or hung on site. Christ Now, 0:35:51.280 --> 0:35:54.200 a lot of these conspiracy theories are also heavily antisemitic, 0:35:54.480 --> 0:35:57.719 talking about like the religion of local officials, like I 0:35:57.760 --> 0:36:00.640 think like the mayor of Asheville, and just in general, 0:36:00.920 --> 0:36:04.640 combining these weather control conspiracy theories with FEMA conspiracy theories, 0:36:05.160 --> 0:36:08.839 saying that like the Jews are somehow controlling all of this, 0:36:09.360 --> 0:36:12.960 and like that's just a recurring aspect of these conspiracies 0:36:13.239 --> 0:36:15.120 that I feel like it is. It is worth mentioning, 0:36:15.640 --> 0:36:17.960 especially because like the right is like trying to weaponize 0:36:18.080 --> 0:36:21.719 claims anti Semitism to attack the Democrats on Israel right now, 0:36:21.800 --> 0:36:25.000 which is absurd because the Democrats are extremely pro Israel, 0:36:25.239 --> 0:36:28.120 but still their constituents are going to be spreading all 0:36:28.160 --> 0:36:31.000 these like very unhinge any Smitic conspiracy theories abou Jews 0:36:31.000 --> 0:36:36.360 controlling weather and using FEMA to hurt Christians in the Appalachians, 0:36:36.640 --> 0:36:38.840 all that kind of stuff. Now, it's not just threats 0:36:38.840 --> 0:36:43.200 against FEMA officials. Death threats have also been targeted against meteorologists, 0:36:43.239 --> 0:36:47.240 as Rolling Stone documented in an article last week. Quote 0:36:47.560 --> 0:36:50.120 I've been doing this for forty six years, and it's 0:36:50.200 --> 0:36:54.160 never been like this, says Alabama meteorologist James span He 0:36:54.200 --> 0:36:57.560 says he's been inundated with misinformation and threatening messages like 0:36:57.960 --> 0:37:00.560 stop lying about the government controlling the weather or else 0:37:00.680 --> 0:37:05.040 unquote great. A Washington, D C. Based meteorologist named Matthew 0:37:05.040 --> 0:37:08.760 Capussi said, quote for me to post a hurricane forecast 0:37:08.800 --> 0:37:11.160 and for people to accuse me of creating the hurricane 0:37:11.360 --> 0:37:14.719 by working for some secret Illuminati entity is disappointing and 0:37:14.800 --> 0:37:19.879 distressing and it's resulting in a decrease in public trust unquote, 0:37:20.080 --> 0:37:22.279 So like again, like, why is this all happening? A 0:37:22.320 --> 0:37:24.520 part of it is because the election is upcoming and 0:37:24.560 --> 0:37:27.160 people are trying to find reasons to think why Trump 0:37:27.239 --> 0:37:30.160 might lose, and they're saying that the hurricanes are actually 0:37:30.200 --> 0:37:32.320 a plot by the illuminati to make Trump lose the 0:37:32.360 --> 0:37:36.840 election via having these storms controlled by Jews and Democrats 0:37:36.880 --> 0:37:40.640 to target Republican areas. But like, what has changed in 0:37:40.680 --> 0:37:43.480 the actual ecosystem to allow this to feel like it's 0:37:43.480 --> 0:37:45.920 so much worse than what it usually has been. And 0:37:46.200 --> 0:37:50.360 I've kind of decided that everyone is now Alex Jones, 0:37:50.520 --> 0:37:53.920 Like everyone has become their own little mini Alex Jones. 0:37:54.200 --> 0:37:56.640 Platforms have changed in the past eight years to create 0:37:56.719 --> 0:38:00.319 massive social and financial incentives to go viral, So now 0:38:00.320 --> 0:38:02.279 everyone is just doing what Alex Jones did, right, Like 0:38:02.520 --> 0:38:05.400 Alex Jones learned that he could make a profit saying 0:38:05.440 --> 0:38:08.640 all kinds of crazy shit on air, and now other 0:38:08.719 --> 0:38:12.040 people have also learned this lesson. This is a part 0:38:12.080 --> 0:38:15.080 of I think what's going on now? How does everyone 0:38:15.200 --> 0:38:18.040 has the capacity to go viral by saying whatever crazy 0:38:18.040 --> 0:38:20.560 shit they can during a moment of crisis. A few 0:38:20.600 --> 0:38:22.440 days ago, there was a really good article in the 0:38:22.480 --> 0:38:26.440 Atlantic by Charles Rozel titled I'm running out of ways 0:38:26.440 --> 0:38:29.239 to explain how bad this is. This is going to 0:38:29.239 --> 0:38:30.920 be linked in the sources below. I recommend you give 0:38:30.920 --> 0:38:33.239 it a read, but I'm going to read a paragraphic 0:38:33.280 --> 0:38:35.799 from it here. Quote. This is more than just a 0:38:35.840 --> 0:38:40.359 misinformation crisis. To watch as real information is overwhelmed by 0:38:40.360 --> 0:38:43.480 crank theories at public servants battle death threats is to 0:38:43.600 --> 0:38:48.480 confront two alarming facts. First that a durable ecosystem exists 0:38:48.560 --> 0:38:52.440 to ensconce citizens in an alternate reality, and second that 0:38:52.480 --> 0:38:56.880 the people consuming and amplifying those lies are not helpless dupes, 0:38:57.160 --> 0:39:01.640 but willing participants. This reality dinfracturing is the result of 0:39:01.680 --> 0:39:05.320 an information ecosystem that is dominated by platforms that offer 0:39:05.440 --> 0:39:10.239 financial and intentional incentives to lie and enrage, and to 0:39:10.280 --> 0:39:14.400 turn every tragedy and every large event into a shameless 0:39:14.520 --> 0:39:19.040 content creation opportunity. This collides with a swath of people 0:39:19.160 --> 0:39:21.680 who would rather live in an alternate reality built on 0:39:21.760 --> 0:39:26.560 distrust and grievance than change their fundamental beliefs about the world. Unquote. 0:39:27.480 --> 0:39:31.080 I know, Mia, We've been talking about this misinformation problem 0:39:31.200 --> 0:39:33.920 in the chat and I know you had some comments 0:39:33.960 --> 0:39:35.240 you want to you wanted to share. 0:39:36.080 --> 0:39:38.839 Yeah, there is a god. Where did I first hear this? 0:39:40.080 --> 0:39:43.960 My even a philosophy episode, there's a bunch of philosophical 0:39:44.040 --> 0:39:49.919 stuff about how ignorance works and about how it's not 0:39:50.080 --> 0:39:52.920 just like ingnorance isn't just the state of not knowing something. 0:39:52.960 --> 0:39:55.360 You have to actively create it, right, You have to 0:39:55.560 --> 0:39:57.360 you have to go out of your way not to 0:39:57.400 --> 0:40:00.719 seek the information that would that would sort of like 0:40:01.560 --> 0:40:03.279 you know, cause you to have to know, or cause 0:40:03.280 --> 0:40:06.080 you to change your worldview, or cause you to like 0:40:06.160 --> 0:40:09.280 have to confront what your beliefs are. So people actively 0:40:09.360 --> 0:40:13.920 sort of construct this this reality around themselves so they 0:40:13.960 --> 0:40:17.640 don't have to do anything that ever sort of challenges 0:40:17.640 --> 0:40:20.000 their own views. And this is something that you can see, 0:40:20.640 --> 0:40:22.880 I mean you see it happening all over the place. 0:40:23.640 --> 0:40:25.120 And this is one of the things that where sale 0:40:25.120 --> 0:40:27.600 it it's like gets right. That is important is that 0:40:27.719 --> 0:40:31.600 like people are active participants in the construction of their 0:40:31.600 --> 0:40:33.960 own universes. And now there's a financial incentive, there's a 0:40:33.960 --> 0:40:36.600 social incentive, and there's also a cognitive incentive, which is 0:40:36.600 --> 0:40:38.640 that like having to deal with the fact you might 0:40:38.640 --> 0:40:41.680 be wrong. Aboustling fucking sucks, yes, and is hard, and 0:40:41.719 --> 0:40:44.480 sometimes you just don't want to know totally. 0:40:44.920 --> 0:40:47.640 Yeah, I mean, and this is something that like myself, Robert, 0:40:47.680 --> 0:40:51.240 and you, have been talking about increasingly the past few years. 0:40:51.600 --> 0:40:56.600 It feels like misinformation is an outdated model to understand 0:40:56.680 --> 0:41:00.000 our current predicament, right, Like misinformation is no longer meant 0:41:00.080 --> 0:41:03.680 to like actually change minds or persuade people. It's just 0:41:03.719 --> 0:41:08.360 a mechanism to construct and reinforce false realities, like in 0:41:08.880 --> 0:41:11.080 the In the recent Meme of Politics episode, I talked 0:41:11.120 --> 0:41:14.520 about how AI images of trans athletes or of immigrants 0:41:14.520 --> 0:41:17.360 stealing pets like these aren't meant to convince anyone of 0:41:17.400 --> 0:41:20.440 their authenticity, but they exist in lieu of evidence to 0:41:20.440 --> 0:41:23.839 help people maintain their reality tunnel. An information researcher at 0:41:23.840 --> 0:41:26.520 the University of Washington named Michael Kawfield wrote an article 0:41:26.600 --> 0:41:29.160 earlier this year about how a whole bunch of mega 0:41:29.200 --> 0:41:33.239 people started to deny the authenticity of those videos of 0:41:33.320 --> 0:41:37.120 Kamala Harris's rally in that Detroit hangar showing like a massive, massive, 0:41:37.160 --> 0:41:39.680 huge crowd with Air Force one or Air Force two 0:41:39.760 --> 0:41:42.520 landing and her getting off with these meg people saying 0:41:42.520 --> 0:41:43.920 that this was like ais is fake. There was no 0:41:43.960 --> 0:41:46.120 way the crowd would be this big, And they invented 0:41:46.120 --> 0:41:48.080 a whole bunch of reasons for why that this photo 0:41:48.160 --> 0:41:50.440 must be fake. And this this wasn't fake. This was 0:41:50.480 --> 0:41:53.600 a real photo. This was easily verified. There's like video 0:41:53.600 --> 0:41:55.680 evidence from multiple sources showing that this is a real 0:41:55.680 --> 0:41:59.640 thing that happened. But Cawfield wrote, quote, the primary use 0:41:59.680 --> 0:42:02.560 of miss information is not to change the beliefs of 0:42:02.680 --> 0:42:06.520 other people at all. Instead, the vast majority of misinformation 0:42:06.719 --> 0:42:10.000 is offered as a service for people to maintain their 0:42:10.040 --> 0:42:14.240 beliefs in face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Unquote, 0:42:15.040 --> 0:42:17.480 and yeah, I don't believe in giving this people a 0:42:17.520 --> 0:42:20.800 degree of passivity, right like, this is an active choice 0:42:20.840 --> 0:42:24.239 that they are doubling down and reinforcing and creating their 0:42:24.280 --> 0:42:26.560 own reality tunnels to live in. And I think the 0:42:26.640 --> 0:42:28.600 other aspect of this, this is something that Robert was 0:42:28.600 --> 0:42:31.080 talking with me last night, is like the people also 0:42:31.480 --> 0:42:35.560 propagating this, the people creating the environments to make this happen, 0:42:35.920 --> 0:42:38.719 are also willing participants, right like this, this is a 0:42:38.719 --> 0:42:41.680 big reason why Musk bought Twitter is so that it 0:42:41.719 --> 0:42:45.399 purposely could turn into the current conspiracy like shit show 0:42:45.400 --> 0:42:48.520 that it currently is. Facebook used to be where conspiracy 0:42:48.560 --> 0:42:52.359 theorists gathered to post their weird boomer opinions, and now 0:42:52.400 --> 0:42:56.400 it's Twitter alongside just actual, like useful, verifiable information. And 0:42:56.800 --> 0:42:59.319 now because these two platforms have kind of combined, how 0:42:59.320 --> 0:43:01.400 we have so much cons piercy content on Twitter, it 0:43:01.440 --> 0:43:03.760 also just damages the use of Twitter as a platform 0:43:03.800 --> 0:43:05.560 to look for real information. And I think you can 0:43:05.600 --> 0:43:08.040 see the same thing with TikTok, with its very loose 0:43:08.080 --> 0:43:12.000 content moderation policy regarding factual information and the fact that 0:43:12.000 --> 0:43:15.040 people use TikTok as its own search engine, creating its 0:43:15.120 --> 0:43:19.399 own ecosystem of misinformation, fully isolated away from the rest 0:43:19.440 --> 0:43:22.879 of the Internet. And this project to like wear down 0:43:22.920 --> 0:43:26.480 collective reality is a long term project by the right. 0:43:27.040 --> 0:43:28.799 You could look at the John Birch Society and other 0:43:28.840 --> 0:43:32.640 anti communist groups from the fifties who used to deliberately 0:43:32.680 --> 0:43:36.560 put out fake articles about communists infiltrating Fox News and 0:43:36.560 --> 0:43:39.160 a whole bunch of conservative mass media like talk radio 0:43:39.360 --> 0:43:41.840 was created at least in part as a reaction to 0:43:41.920 --> 0:43:44.360 Nixon being forced of office and a lot of the 0:43:44.400 --> 0:43:47.200 same people funding right wing media are also pushing for 0:43:47.440 --> 0:43:51.359 charter schools and attempts to destroy public education. Like it's 0:43:51.400 --> 0:43:55.120 all an intentional effort to make people's media literacy go 0:43:55.160 --> 0:43:58.960 completely down the toilet and propagate entire false versions of 0:43:59.000 --> 0:44:02.040 reality in so of a few rich people. And that's 0:44:02.239 --> 0:44:04.919 what our current situation is right now. And I don't 0:44:04.920 --> 0:44:06.279 know if it's a way to stop it. As you 0:44:06.360 --> 0:44:09.640 heard in that clip from MSNBC, like fact checks don't 0:44:09.680 --> 0:44:12.200 work anymore, because that's not like the point of any 0:44:12.200 --> 0:44:14.440 of this. It's not meant to actually persuade people. It's 0:44:14.480 --> 0:44:16.880 only meant to reinforce what they already want to believe. 0:44:17.280 --> 0:44:20.840 So what do you do in a world post fact checking? 0:44:21.160 --> 0:44:23.480 I don't know, and we're going to have to find out. 0:44:24.400 --> 0:44:24.840 I don't know me. 0:44:25.400 --> 0:44:27.240 Do you have any closing thoughts? 0:44:27.600 --> 0:44:27.799 You know? 0:44:27.880 --> 0:44:29.480 I will say, one of the few things I've ever 0:44:29.520 --> 0:44:31.960 seen that's gotten someone out of something like this is 0:44:32.200 --> 0:44:35.120 just sometimes it doesn't always work like this, but every 0:44:35.160 --> 0:44:37.440 once in a while, you could have an experience that 0:44:37.600 --> 0:44:42.040 is so cognitively shattering to everything that you'd believed that 0:44:42.960 --> 0:44:43.880 it just implodes. 0:44:44.680 --> 0:44:48.760 So me, you're advocating to dose your Republican family members 0:44:48.800 --> 0:44:50.240 with LSD. Is that what I'm hearing? 0:44:50.840 --> 0:44:53.640 Well, No, what I'm advocating is that the people who 0:44:53.640 --> 0:44:55.920 think that China is a socialist state be sent to 0:44:56.000 --> 0:44:58.040 China and have to interact with members. 0:44:57.760 --> 0:44:59.680 Of the Chinese Communist Party. Because I have. 0:44:59.680 --> 0:45:03.279 Seen the work. It does work. It can't, I've seen 0:45:03.320 --> 0:45:05.600 it happen. You can't talk to these people for more 0:45:05.640 --> 0:45:07.960 than five minutes. But I mean, you know, a sort 0:45:07.960 --> 0:45:10.239 of more serious note, I mean, this is something that 0:45:11.000 --> 0:45:14.680 you know, you're trying to fight emotions on a sort 0:45:14.680 --> 0:45:17.279 of intellectual level, and so like, if you want to 0:45:17.320 --> 0:45:20.000 deal with this, I don't. I think you have to 0:45:20.080 --> 0:45:25.200 kind of be working on a sort of like emotional 0:45:25.200 --> 0:45:29.719 act factor register. And that sucks because it's you know, 0:45:29.800 --> 0:45:35.040 it's effectively the abandonments of politics as politics. It's arguably 0:45:35.080 --> 0:45:38.400 just a complete retreat into fascism. But you know, if 0:45:38.400 --> 0:45:40.040 you take the sort of undersetting of one of the 0:45:40.080 --> 0:45:43.239 elements of it as fascism is reducing all politics to aesthetics. 0:45:43.320 --> 0:45:44.960 Right, But we've hit. 0:45:44.840 --> 0:45:50.600 This point where there's no centralizing viewpoint, like central reality 0:45:50.600 --> 0:45:54.600 tunnel that most people are in, and that's largely partially 0:45:54.600 --> 0:45:56.280 because of these people trying to destroy it, and partially 0:45:56.320 --> 0:45:59.120 because the people who were running the mainstream media blew 0:45:59.160 --> 0:46:03.680 themselves up by lying about rock and then by spending 0:46:03.719 --> 0:46:06.920 thirty years insisting that like neoliberalism was the greatest economic 0:46:06.920 --> 0:46:10.040 system ever, and then two thousand and eight happening, and so, 0:46:10.200 --> 0:46:13.600 like you know, we're in this position where the people 0:46:13.600 --> 0:46:16.399 who had built the guardrails blew it up in order 0:46:16.440 --> 0:46:18.239 to make money and push your political jendas, and now 0:46:18.239 --> 0:46:20.320 a bunch of other people who want to just destroy 0:46:20.640 --> 0:46:26.400 everything inside of those rails are just like detonating bombs 0:46:26.440 --> 0:46:28.840 inside of all of our like psychological conscies. 0:46:30.239 --> 0:46:32.400 I mean, I think the guy who was talking about 0:46:32.480 --> 0:46:36.720 his stepdad in Asheville is correct. It is a cult, 0:46:36.920 --> 0:46:39.040 and you have to treat it like you would treat 0:46:39.080 --> 0:46:41.120 a cult. You can't fact check them out of this. 0:46:41.600 --> 0:46:46.000 You have to treat them like your friend just joined scientology. 0:46:46.080 --> 0:46:48.080 Some people might just choose to completely cut the person 0:46:48.120 --> 0:46:50.360 off because they find it too dangerous, and that's fine, 0:46:50.800 --> 0:46:52.839 but I think there should be others that remain as 0:46:52.880 --> 0:46:55.279 a lifeline to the person, right if they ever one 0:46:55.360 --> 0:46:57.520 day realize, oh no, I'm in a cult, and I 0:46:57.560 --> 0:46:59.640 need help. There needs to be a way for them 0:46:59.680 --> 0:47:01.920 to get out. There needs to be a lifeline for 0:47:01.960 --> 0:47:05.040 them to escape. And this is the only way that 0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:08.840 like quote unquote cult deprogramming has worked. You can point 0:47:08.880 --> 0:47:11.600 to like people who've gotten out of the QAnon conspiracy theory, 0:47:11.960 --> 0:47:15.399 like this is the only tactic that actually works. It's 0:47:15.440 --> 0:47:18.840 reliant on the courtesy of others, right It's it's reliant 0:47:18.880 --> 0:47:20.719 that you have to put yourself in a degree of 0:47:20.800 --> 0:47:24.200 danger by maintaining contact with this person that is kind 0:47:24.239 --> 0:47:27.040 of dangerous because they are in this like very volatile cult. 0:47:27.560 --> 0:47:29.960 There needs to be some lifeline for them. And I 0:47:30.000 --> 0:47:32.400 think that's really the only way that I know of 0:47:32.520 --> 0:47:35.560 right now that shows a degree of success in getting 0:47:35.600 --> 0:47:39.440 people out of this like fucked up conspiracy matrix. And 0:47:39.480 --> 0:47:42.840 it sucks, and it's not easy, and most people promoting 0:47:42.880 --> 0:47:47.200 like cult deprogramming are hacks with pseudoscience. And it turns 0:47:47.239 --> 0:47:50.000 out like this is just a very emotional problem and 0:47:50.080 --> 0:47:54.560 it requires unfortunately emotional solutions that a simple Reuter's fact 0:47:54.640 --> 0:47:57.680 check will not suffice. So anyway, that is my rundown 0:47:57.840 --> 0:48:01.239 on what's currently going on with the her misinformation. It's 0:48:01.280 --> 0:48:03.560 really bad. Yep, it could happen here. 0:48:23.360 --> 0:48:27.240 It it could happen here. The podcast about things falling 0:48:27.280 --> 0:48:29.160 apart and how to put them back together again. I'm 0:48:29.160 --> 0:48:31.680 your host vo Long So for people who listened to 0:48:31.760 --> 0:48:35.880 yesterday's episode, which I'm hoping is like most of you, Yeah, 0:48:35.920 --> 0:48:38.840 So yesterday it was a very kind of downer episode 0:48:39.080 --> 0:48:43.040 on hurricane misinformation and the way that these sort of 0:48:43.120 --> 0:48:46.680 people construct these reality tunnels, and you know, our have 0:48:46.719 --> 0:48:51.759 become active participants in their own sort of propagandizement. And 0:48:52.320 --> 0:48:54.200 I think we kind of we left on our kind 0:48:54.200 --> 0:48:57.560 of note of of what you can do for sort 0:48:57.560 --> 0:49:00.560 of individual people, right, which is the same mechanisms you 0:49:00.680 --> 0:49:02.720 usually get someone out of a cult, which is you 0:49:02.920 --> 0:49:05.719 stay with them, you maintain enough personal connection that you 0:49:05.719 --> 0:49:07.359 can pull them out if they ever want to come out. 0:49:08.440 --> 0:49:10.880 But that's also not a large scale solution to this problem. 0:49:11.840 --> 0:49:14.840 And in order to talk about a large scale solution 0:49:15.000 --> 0:49:18.560 to both our present social crisis and the ecological crisis 0:49:18.600 --> 0:49:21.040 that this social crisis is being aimed to sort of 0:49:21.239 --> 0:49:24.600 cover up. Right now, I'm talking to Rosewater, who's the 0:49:24.840 --> 0:49:28.480 hub coordinator for the Sunrise Movement's DC Hub and delegate 0:49:28.520 --> 0:49:31.600 to Sunrise's Delicate Body and also a solar punk organized 0:49:31.600 --> 0:49:32.160 at Rosewater. 0:49:32.160 --> 0:49:32.920 Welcome to the show. 0:49:33.640 --> 0:49:37.120 Thank you so much for having me on. Yeah, hi everybody, 0:49:37.160 --> 0:49:41.080 my name is Rosewater and yeah, longtime fan of cool 0:49:41.160 --> 0:49:45.120 Zone Media. Y'all were my introduction to my current democratic 0:49:45.120 --> 0:49:48.440 confederalist politics. Oh that's awesome. So it feels like a 0:49:48.480 --> 0:49:51.840 really fun, like full circle moment to have a chance 0:49:51.880 --> 0:49:52.919 to be on the pod. 0:49:53.680 --> 0:49:57.080 Yeah, and I'm excited to talk to you. So specific 0:49:57.120 --> 0:50:01.200 thing where we're talking about is in terms of their 0:50:01.320 --> 0:50:05.040 being an actual plan for what people are doing like 0:50:05.400 --> 0:50:09.600 past the next three weeks, like after the election. The 0:50:10.000 --> 0:50:13.440 biggest thing that has been happening is it's just something 0:50:13.480 --> 0:50:15.640 we've talked about a little bit on this show is 0:50:15.680 --> 0:50:17.759 to propose twenty twenty eight general strike. So do you 0:50:17.800 --> 0:50:19.799 want to talk a little bit about what that is 0:50:19.840 --> 0:50:22.799 before we get into sun Rises involvements and yeah, the 0:50:22.840 --> 0:50:23.720 sort of broader story. 0:50:24.080 --> 0:50:24.440 Yeah. 0:50:24.560 --> 0:50:28.760 Yeah, So I feel like most people who follow leftist 0:50:28.760 --> 0:50:33.799 politics were following the UAW strike against the Big three 0:50:33.800 --> 0:50:37.239 automaker's last fall, and people found that they found their 0:50:37.280 --> 0:50:40.840 strike really inspiring and they had like really strong gains 0:50:40.880 --> 0:50:44.759 that were the sort of straightforward like increase pay like 0:50:44.840 --> 0:50:48.279 better benefits type stuff, and people were celebrating that. But 0:50:48.320 --> 0:50:51.759 I would say the two actual most important changes were 0:50:51.800 --> 0:50:55.719 not reported on nearly as much. One was they eroded 0:50:55.719 --> 0:51:00.400 their labor peace clause and they made it possible to 0:51:00.440 --> 0:51:04.440 go on strike if any of their facilities were closed, 0:51:04.760 --> 0:51:09.640 which labor peace has in my opinion, been sort of 0:51:10.160 --> 0:51:12.080 strangling the US left for eighty years. 0:51:12.320 --> 0:51:13.960 Yeah, can you explain what that is for people? 0:51:14.200 --> 0:51:17.120 I think we've usually were broadly talked about as no 0:51:17.200 --> 0:51:20.160 strike clauses, But yeah, can you explain what that is? 0:51:20.400 --> 0:51:24.319 Yeah, So, labor piece is essentially a truce that was 0:51:24.400 --> 0:51:28.440 established between the labor movement, capitalists, and the US government 0:51:28.640 --> 0:51:35.040 where the labor movement gets generalized rights and the US 0:51:35.160 --> 0:51:39.560 government is like a quote fair mediator between capitalists and 0:51:39.600 --> 0:51:45.040 the labor movement, and capitalists get a consistent workforce and 0:51:45.600 --> 0:51:51.319 peace like peace from disruptions. And this essentially was established 0:51:51.560 --> 0:51:54.839 between the beginning of World War Two and the end 0:51:54.840 --> 0:51:57.360 of the Red Scare, when all of the socialists and 0:51:57.680 --> 0:52:00.720 markets and communists were expelled from labor movement. 0:52:01.600 --> 0:52:03.880 And it felt. 0:52:03.680 --> 0:52:05.680 Like a good deal to a lot of liberals at 0:52:05.680 --> 0:52:08.520 the time, and a lot of normal rank and file 0:52:08.560 --> 0:52:12.719 workers at the time, but on reflection, it has really 0:52:12.760 --> 0:52:16.200 strangled the US labor movement. And so the fact that 0:52:16.200 --> 0:52:21.280 the UAW eroded their no stripe clause at all is 0:52:21.320 --> 0:52:24.640 a huge precedent, right, Yeah. 0:52:24.480 --> 0:52:26.560 And this is something I mean, I mean, I remember 0:52:26.600 --> 0:52:28.799 I don't remember if this actually got into the Labor 0:52:28.840 --> 0:52:30.560 Notes episode that I did, but I remember at Labor 0:52:30.600 --> 0:52:32.440 Notes I was listening to people talk about this, and 0:52:33.239 --> 0:52:36.880 this is stuff that I think the global impact of 0:52:36.920 --> 0:52:38.400 it has also been really underplayed. 0:52:38.440 --> 0:52:39.839 Like I mean, obviously there was a lot of times 0:52:39.840 --> 0:52:40.280 you paid. 0:52:40.120 --> 0:52:42.120 This in Mexico, right, because there's a lot of like, 0:52:42.640 --> 0:52:45.280 you know, the structure of the of the auto industry 0:52:45.320 --> 0:52:45.800 is such. 0:52:45.640 --> 0:52:47.560 That that's so obvious to me, and I didn't even 0:52:47.560 --> 0:52:48.920 think about that until just now. 0:52:49.080 --> 0:52:49.319 Yeah. 0:52:49.560 --> 0:52:51.600 So one of the things that NAFTA did is that 0:52:51.680 --> 0:52:54.359 sort of right across the border, right, a whole sort 0:52:54.360 --> 0:52:56.440 of range of factories that are right across the border 0:52:56.480 --> 0:52:59.640 that operate off Mexican labor, that do some of the 0:52:59.680 --> 0:53:02.120 auto industry stuff. And so there's always been sort of 0:53:02.160 --> 0:53:06.400 connections between the more independent unions there and sort of 0:53:06.400 --> 0:53:08.439 American unions. But like you know, but this is also 0:53:08.480 --> 0:53:12.080 struck as being watched really, really heavily in China, which 0:53:12.120 --> 0:53:16.720 is interesting because like Chinese state unions are a fucking joke. 0:53:17.560 --> 0:53:23.520 They're basically not real unions at all. And the extent 0:53:23.560 --> 0:53:25.479 to which you know, the China's version of the labor 0:53:25.480 --> 0:53:29.799 piece was also the deal was less like you get 0:53:29.880 --> 0:53:33.400 rights and we get like labor piece, and more like 0:53:35.200 --> 0:53:38.160 we're going to just stamp out while working class organization 0:53:38.640 --> 0:53:41.200 completely and in a way that like was more even 0:53:41.239 --> 0:53:43.560 more thorough than what happened here where most of it 0:53:43.680 --> 0:53:47.080 got wiped out. I think like the breaking of the 0:53:47.160 --> 0:53:51.000 labor piece and the demonstration that there is another way 0:53:51.520 --> 0:53:55.440 is something that has reverberated massively across a lot of 0:53:55.440 --> 0:53:57.920 different places that I don't think both the people organizing 0:53:57.920 --> 0:54:01.080 the strike or the sort of like press coverage of 0:54:01.080 --> 0:54:04.080 it has really gotten into sort of how wide the 0:54:04.080 --> 0:54:05.319 reverberations of this have been. 0:54:05.840 --> 0:54:11.120 Right, I think if it were just eroding that clause alone, 0:54:11.960 --> 0:54:13.440 it wouldn't be such a signal. 0:54:13.800 --> 0:54:14.759 But yeah, definitely. 0:54:14.960 --> 0:54:18.719 The real thing that caught my attention at first was 0:54:19.480 --> 0:54:23.040 immediately afterwards they changed the end of their contract date 0:54:23.360 --> 0:54:28.680 to International Workers' Day twenty twenty eight, and they called 0:54:28.719 --> 0:54:32.280 on every union in the country and later every union 0:54:32.320 --> 0:54:36.080 in the world to align with that contract and go 0:54:36.160 --> 0:54:38.719 on strike with them on May first, twenty twenty eight, 0:54:39.200 --> 0:54:42.520 And that was the first time, Like, correct me if 0:54:42.520 --> 0:54:45.200 I'm wrong, that was the first time that a major 0:54:46.040 --> 0:54:51.320 labor union in America has called for a planned general 0:54:51.320 --> 0:54:55.080 strike since nineteen forty eight. 0:54:55.880 --> 0:54:58.759 Yeah, I think that's true, and I think there being 0:54:58.800 --> 0:55:02.359 an actual plan they're being a way to do what 0:55:02.400 --> 0:55:05.640 that's legal is a big deal because part of the 0:55:05.719 --> 0:55:08.880 problem with this is that there's you know, unlike unlike 0:55:08.880 --> 0:55:13.200 a country like France, American labor law is specifically designed 0:55:13.760 --> 0:55:17.680 so that you don't have this happen. There's a bunch 0:55:17.680 --> 0:55:20.160 of legal mechanisms for this, but it's very very specifically 0:55:20.200 --> 0:55:22.040 designed to make sure that people are not alledged to 0:55:22.040 --> 0:55:26.040 solid already strikes. People are not allowed to coordinate the 0:55:26.200 --> 0:55:31.720 entire power of their action, and this is a pretty 0:55:31.840 --> 0:55:33.480 promising way around that. 0:55:34.040 --> 0:55:38.280 Yeah, this may be better for later in the episode. 0:55:38.280 --> 0:55:41.680 But one of the things that we're doing is where 0:55:42.160 --> 0:55:46.799 in collaboration with the Institute for Social Ecology, doing a 0:55:46.880 --> 0:55:49.960 teach in on labor peace and the history of general strikes, 0:55:49.960 --> 0:55:54.319 in the US about a week after the election in 0:55:54.520 --> 0:55:59.200 order to orient ourselves in whatever new political context exists there. 0:55:59.239 --> 0:56:03.120 But yeah, so yeah, I think that's a jumping off 0:56:03.120 --> 0:56:07.680 point to get into. I think Sunrise is kind of 0:56:07.760 --> 0:56:11.680 an unlikely organization that people would think to be getting 0:56:11.800 --> 0:56:15.520 like excited and trying to get involved in a labor struggle. Yeah, 0:56:15.520 --> 0:56:17.400 but yeah, let's talk about how Summrise got involved. And 0:56:17.400 --> 0:56:20.080 I guess first, also, I don't know how many people 0:56:20.120 --> 0:56:22.400 listening to this know what Sunrise is. And if you 0:56:22.440 --> 0:56:24.160 do know what Sunrise is, that might also make you 0:56:24.200 --> 0:56:25.920 war surprise you're getting involved in labor. 0:56:26.280 --> 0:56:28.239 But yes, let's talk about that. 0:56:28.760 --> 0:56:29.160 Yeah. 0:56:29.239 --> 0:56:33.600 So Sunrise is a youth climate movement that has been 0:56:33.760 --> 0:56:36.279 one of the main advocates for the idea of a 0:56:36.280 --> 0:56:39.160 Green New Deal. When AOC first came into office and 0:56:39.200 --> 0:56:42.600 she did that like sit in at Nancy Pelosi's office, 0:56:42.920 --> 0:56:47.840 like that was a Sunrise action, And we historically have 0:56:47.960 --> 0:56:50.880 been an org that sort of like tries to bridge 0:56:50.960 --> 0:56:54.600 the divide between people who are sort of a politically 0:56:54.640 --> 0:56:59.120 liberal and more radical politics, which is a hard place 0:56:59.200 --> 0:56:59.480 to be. 0:57:00.120 --> 0:57:04.480 Yeah, someone's got to do it, But we've. 0:57:04.320 --> 0:57:10.480 Really focused on trying to like connect environmentalism with labor. Actually, 0:57:10.840 --> 0:57:14.560 our main slogans, the main intervention that we've succeeded that 0:57:14.719 --> 0:57:19.840 has been associating the idea of environmental action with jobs, 0:57:19.880 --> 0:57:22.640 like green jobs and stuff like that. The problem with 0:57:22.760 --> 0:57:27.400 that has been one it has been primarily rhetorical, especially 0:57:27.480 --> 0:57:32.160 after Burnley's loss in twenty twenty. Yeah, and stories matter, 0:57:32.760 --> 0:57:35.320 but material conditions matter more. 0:57:35.520 --> 0:57:35.720 Yeah. 0:57:35.960 --> 0:57:40.200 And the reason that we didn't we weren't more materially 0:57:40.360 --> 0:57:44.680 involved in connecting labor and environmentalism, and by that I 0:57:44.760 --> 0:57:48.280 mean like connected with unions, is that union's leadership was 0:57:48.280 --> 0:57:51.600 often very far to our right, you know, especially in 0:57:51.640 --> 0:57:55.400 the United States, so it didn't feel like it made sense. 0:57:55.800 --> 0:58:00.320 But as a result, the sort of Biden year have 0:58:00.480 --> 0:58:03.960 been a time where there's been a lot of internal 0:58:03.960 --> 0:58:04.800 discussion about like. 0:58:04.840 --> 0:58:05.720 Who we are? 0:58:06.320 --> 0:58:11.720 Are we a radical movement that sort of positions itself 0:58:11.760 --> 0:58:15.680 rhetorically as more normal in order to bring in like 0:58:16.480 --> 0:58:17.480 young people. 0:58:17.240 --> 0:58:18.800 Who whose parents. 0:58:18.600 --> 0:58:22.680 Won't let them, you know, join a fight to end 0:58:22.720 --> 0:58:26.840 all unjust hierarchies, or like sees the means of production, 0:58:27.040 --> 0:58:27.520 et cetera. 0:58:27.840 --> 0:58:30.280 Like are we a radical movement that. 0:58:30.280 --> 0:58:36.240 Poses normy or are we a like liberal progressive movement 0:58:36.440 --> 0:58:40.480 that sometimes asks for radical things, and that's been a 0:58:40.560 --> 0:58:43.400 really big conflict within the ORG these last few years 0:58:43.480 --> 0:58:49.240 because the path to any climate action, the only path 0:58:49.280 --> 0:58:52.760 that a lot of people have seen, has been electoral stuff, 0:58:52.800 --> 0:58:56.320 pushing politicians and things like that. In a lot of ways, 0:58:56.400 --> 0:59:02.520 the Inflation Production Act was a result of Sunrises organizing 0:59:02.600 --> 0:59:06.720 and our work to try and force through the Build 0:59:06.760 --> 0:59:11.200 Back Better program, but it aligned us with Biden, and 0:59:12.040 --> 0:59:14.720 from the point of view of a lot of our organizers, 0:59:14.800 --> 0:59:19.280 like even if it was a victory, it didn't feel 0:59:19.280 --> 0:59:22.600 like one, and it's certainly not nearly large enough to 0:59:22.840 --> 0:59:28.480 actually handle the scale of the crisis. And so essentially 0:59:29.400 --> 0:59:33.880 the more radical wing of the movement has been winning 0:59:33.920 --> 0:59:37.680 that fight over the last year two fights, a strong word, 0:59:37.920 --> 0:59:40.320 has been winning that debate over the last year or two, 0:59:41.000 --> 0:59:47.200 and specifically this last summer when the American Federation of 0:59:47.240 --> 0:59:51.520 Teachers joined the general strike, which almost no one has 0:59:51.560 --> 0:59:55.920 heard about. But the AFT and their one point seven 0:59:55.920 --> 0:59:59.920 million members have already decided that they're going to try 1:00:00.040 --> 1:00:01.720 and joined the twenty twenty eight general strike. 1:00:01.800 --> 1:00:03.560 So it's not just the UAW anymore. 1:00:03.880 --> 1:00:05.600 Yeah, But unfortunately we need to take an ad break 1:00:05.600 --> 1:00:06.160 and we come back. 1:00:06.280 --> 1:00:08.160 You're going to get to that, because that I think 1:00:08.440 --> 1:00:10.400 we'll be looked back as one of the pivotal moments 1:00:10.480 --> 1:00:12.960 of this whole thing that everyone kind of just missed 1:00:13.000 --> 1:00:13.600 when it happened. 1:00:13.680 --> 1:00:15.720 I completely agree, it's going to be amazing. 1:00:15.840 --> 1:00:20.240 Yeah, okay, little ads unfortunately ads, and then we'll do 1:00:20.280 --> 1:00:21.080 it by Gold. 1:00:30.760 --> 1:00:33.600 We're back. I don't fight gold. 1:00:33.880 --> 1:00:35.920 At some point I'm going to write the Dope by 1:00:36.000 --> 1:00:37.080 Gold episode. 1:00:37.360 --> 1:00:38.960 Do you think this is a joke? There is a 1:00:39.000 --> 1:00:39.880 dope buy Gold app. 1:00:40.800 --> 1:00:44.240 It's big worked on in the in the Meal laboratory 1:00:45.280 --> 1:00:49.400 that the gold scammer add thing. Okay, back back back 1:00:49.440 --> 1:00:51.520 to the present or I guess back to the future. 1:00:51.560 --> 1:00:54.840 I don't know time. Time is falling apart here. But 1:00:55.360 --> 1:00:58.680 let's talk about the AFT. The American Federation of Teachers, right, 1:00:58.840 --> 1:01:02.400 and I don't know what they'venounced in terms of this, right. 1:01:02.520 --> 1:01:06.120 So, the American Federation of Teachers, sort of led by 1:01:06.600 --> 1:01:11.160 the Chicago Teachers Union, the Baltimore Teachers Union, and to 1:01:11.320 --> 1:01:15.480 a smaller extent, the DC Teachers Union, managed to get 1:01:15.520 --> 1:01:19.040 through a resolution at their convention that when you read 1:01:19.080 --> 1:01:22.640 the title, it's very boring it's like on aligning with 1:01:22.880 --> 1:01:26.840 the UAW. But when you actually click on the document 1:01:26.880 --> 1:01:30.360 and you read it, it is like class struggle fire 1:01:30.760 --> 1:01:34.320 Like reading it from beginning to end, I felt exhilaration, 1:01:34.800 --> 1:01:37.640 Like I felt like a fire explode in my heart. 1:01:37.800 --> 1:01:38.720 It was so amazing. 1:01:38.880 --> 1:01:43.000 And I heard about this the same weekend that we 1:01:43.000 --> 1:01:49.160 were actually having a climate disaster training in DC. Right, 1:01:49.680 --> 1:01:52.440 we had about one hundred leaders from across our movement, 1:01:52.880 --> 1:01:56.800 about half of our staff there, and at the beginning, 1:01:56.840 --> 1:02:00.840 people were really excited for climate disaster actions responding to 1:02:01.520 --> 1:02:05.680 moments like this. Actually, but when we talked about victory, 1:02:05.720 --> 1:02:08.240 when we talked about and we're going to have like 1:02:09.760 --> 1:02:13.320 mass mobilization against the climate crisis, where the whole of 1:02:13.360 --> 1:02:17.240 our society like pitches in to do this, the federal 1:02:17.280 --> 1:02:20.560 government like does a World War two style mobilization against 1:02:20.600 --> 1:02:23.600 this destruction, and stuff like that, you could tell that 1:02:23.720 --> 1:02:24.920 people didn't see a path. 1:02:25.800 --> 1:02:26.400 You could tell. 1:02:26.960 --> 1:02:27.640 Yeah. 1:02:27.680 --> 1:02:32.800 And so like this news dropping that the teachers were 1:02:32.960 --> 1:02:37.760 joining a general strike, we're joining mass disruption in some 1:02:38.120 --> 1:02:38.880 meaningful way. 1:02:39.480 --> 1:02:41.240 It hit us like a bomb. 1:02:41.320 --> 1:02:44.000 It was the perfect moment for it to hit us, 1:02:44.080 --> 1:02:47.680 because it was like, yeah, if the auto workers are 1:02:47.680 --> 1:02:51.160 going on strike, and the academic workers are going on strike, 1:02:51.440 --> 1:02:54.360 and the teachers are going on strike, then why can't 1:02:54.360 --> 1:02:58.000 the students go on strike? And not only why can't they, 1:02:58.040 --> 1:03:01.200 but like, the students must go on strike. And that 1:03:01.360 --> 1:03:05.680 was sort of the moment that really got our movement 1:03:05.760 --> 1:03:08.919 from yes, we would like to figure out some sort 1:03:08.960 --> 1:03:12.800 of different way to get to the mass disruption needed 1:03:12.960 --> 1:03:17.280 in order to like win serious action on the climate crisis, 1:03:17.800 --> 1:03:19.960 to like, oh there's a path. 1:03:20.360 --> 1:03:22.280 Yeah, like we see, we see a path. 1:03:23.160 --> 1:03:26.439 It's it's core memory, like if you know, like inside out, 1:03:26.520 --> 1:03:28.160 like core memory formed that weekend. 1:03:28.200 --> 1:03:30.080 It was it was beautiful. 1:03:30.960 --> 1:03:32.760 Yeah, And I think, what's you know? 1:03:32.760 --> 1:03:34.640 I mean, there's a couple things that are important here, right, 1:03:34.680 --> 1:03:39.000 but I think it's being underplayed exactly how important it 1:03:39.120 --> 1:03:43.800 is to have teachers unions being into this, because the 1:03:43.880 --> 1:03:46.760 thing about teachers unions is that they were an extremely 1:03:46.800 --> 1:03:52.920 important lever on labor movement because the way the capitalist 1:03:52.960 --> 1:03:56.840 society is structured, right, is such that most childcare is 1:03:56.920 --> 1:03:59.560 just sort of like all of that labor is basically 1:03:59.640 --> 1:04:04.560 been pushed the teachers, right. And the moment that childcare collapses, right, 1:04:05.120 --> 1:04:08.120 a bunch of people suddenly also who are not normally 1:04:08.160 --> 1:04:09.919 on strikes suddenly are not able to do the drugs 1:04:09.960 --> 1:04:11.400 because they have they have to find some way to 1:04:11.400 --> 1:04:14.360 take care of their kids. And so this is this 1:04:14.440 --> 1:04:17.520 is sort of a massive leverage point and in the 1:04:17.560 --> 1:04:20.040 same way that like sort of dock worker strikes, or 1:04:20.040 --> 1:04:21.320 I mean not in the same way, but like in 1:04:21.320 --> 1:04:24.640 a sense that a strike by these people can shut 1:04:24.680 --> 1:04:27.760 down way way more labor than just theirs directly, right, 1:04:28.200 --> 1:04:29.560 this is something that's very important. 1:04:29.680 --> 1:04:32.120 Yeah, yeah, I never really thought about that. 1:04:32.200 --> 1:04:34.720 I've thought about them in the context of like their 1:04:34.840 --> 1:04:38.040 sort of community pillars, so like when teachers go on strike, 1:04:38.120 --> 1:04:42.880 they often bring way more community support with them than 1:04:43.040 --> 1:04:46.280 other types of workers. But yeah, you're totally right, like 1:04:46.560 --> 1:04:50.600 outside of like the community going with them. Also, that 1:04:50.720 --> 1:04:54.120 is the primary form of childcare that exists in this country. 1:04:54.200 --> 1:04:57.280 Yeah, and there is something that like teachers organizers, like 1:04:57.320 --> 1:04:59.920 she's just un organizers are very big ons are emphasizing 1:05:00.040 --> 1:05:03.720 because they have an enormous amount of power and it's 1:05:04.680 --> 1:05:08.160 kind of to a large extent, hasn't been tapped for 1:05:08.760 --> 1:05:11.040 the kinds of sort of mass political action that we're 1:05:11.040 --> 1:05:11.680 seeing here. 1:05:12.360 --> 1:05:13.400 Like it's one of those things. 1:05:13.440 --> 1:05:16.880 It's one of those sort of leverage points that's always existed, 1:05:17.040 --> 1:05:21.160 but there hasn't really been the kind of like political 1:05:21.240 --> 1:05:24.280 will or momentum more sort of organizing capacity to fully 1:05:24.320 --> 1:05:28.080 mobilize it. And yeah, so I guess I want to 1:05:28.080 --> 1:05:31.720 move from hereter talking about sunrises involvement in the strike, 1:05:31.760 --> 1:05:33.880 because I think this part is really interesting both in 1:05:34.000 --> 1:05:37.240 terms of they're being like both of the times of 1:05:37.240 --> 1:05:39.160 strike support and student strikes. So can you talk, I 1:05:39.200 --> 1:05:42.280 guess about the sort of politics of student strikes and 1:05:42.560 --> 1:05:45.760 how you see this fitting into the broader thing that's happening. 1:05:45.960 --> 1:05:46.240 Yeah. 1:05:46.440 --> 1:05:50.040 Yeah, So the climate movement sort of had the height 1:05:50.560 --> 1:05:56.320 of its power in twenty nineteen, I would say, when 1:05:56.960 --> 1:06:02.120 you had Fridays for Future and like Gretitchenberg, climate strikes 1:06:02.240 --> 1:06:05.760 all across Europe and America. But I would use the 1:06:05.800 --> 1:06:10.600 word strike in quotes because sometimes you had full walkouts, 1:06:10.640 --> 1:06:13.640 sometimes you had like those sorts of huge things, but 1:06:13.720 --> 1:06:18.880 most of the time it was students asking permission from 1:06:19.120 --> 1:06:23.280 authority figures to participate in a rally and things like that, 1:06:23.800 --> 1:06:27.880 Whereas in a class struggle context, like a strike is 1:06:28.400 --> 1:06:31.680 people going to the authority figure and saying this is 1:06:31.760 --> 1:06:35.520 not occurring because we're not going to be here, you know. 1:06:36.280 --> 1:06:38.600 Like this has been a critique that's existed inside of 1:06:38.640 --> 1:06:43.400 Sunrise like from that period for years now, which was 1:06:43.400 --> 1:06:46.400 one of the reasons why we haven't focused on those 1:06:46.480 --> 1:06:49.680 sort of tactics as much. But with this sort of moment, 1:06:49.840 --> 1:06:54.920 especially if we can bring the teachers along, right, being 1:06:55.000 --> 1:07:00.600 able to have students see their authority figures doing this 1:07:00.720 --> 1:07:04.520 sort of thing, especially in more conservative areas, while also 1:07:04.640 --> 1:07:09.000 teaching them how to do it, because in really meaningful ways, 1:07:09.720 --> 1:07:15.720 schools are practice work yep. Like they were directly modeled 1:07:15.760 --> 1:07:20.800 after factories in the eighteen hundreds, so schools are modeled 1:07:20.840 --> 1:07:25.680 after work. So if schools are practice work, then student 1:07:25.840 --> 1:07:29.000 strikes can be practice labor organizing. 1:07:29.080 --> 1:07:32.520 Yeah, I mean, and turning schools from sort of laboratories 1:07:32.600 --> 1:07:35.760 for the reproduction of the class system into laboratories for 1:07:36.960 --> 1:07:40.440 learning class struggle. It's something that's very very important, both 1:07:40.520 --> 1:07:43.800 in the immediate term and in the longer term. Yeah, 1:07:44.240 --> 1:07:47.520 we've talked a bit about this on other episodes, but 1:07:47.600 --> 1:07:52.240 like there hasn't been the kind of like generational passed 1:07:52.280 --> 1:07:54.920 down of organizing skills that we've seen in sort of 1:07:54.920 --> 1:07:58.240 preview generations and the way honestly, we've talked this, we 1:07:58.240 --> 1:08:00.680 talked about the center sort of UAW staff episode, right 1:08:00.720 --> 1:08:02.240 that the way that a lot of these unions are 1:08:02.360 --> 1:08:06.560 running their staff systems also aren't designed to build up 1:08:07.120 --> 1:08:10.000 like continuous momentum for people who learn how to organizing 1:08:10.040 --> 1:08:12.280 and keep doing it. And this is a way, because 1:08:12.280 --> 1:08:16.880 it restart that treadbill to create a generation of organizers 1:08:16.880 --> 1:08:19.200 both in this moment and for the future. 1:08:19.680 --> 1:08:20.680 Yes, exactly. 1:08:20.800 --> 1:08:24.760 And I have had many critiques of my organization, many 1:08:24.760 --> 1:08:28.040 critiques of my movement, but the thing that has always 1:08:28.240 --> 1:08:33.120 made me want to like stick around has been seeing 1:08:33.520 --> 1:08:37.839 the young organizers who like find themselves here. Like the 1:08:37.880 --> 1:08:42.040 primary person who does our press stuff in the movement 1:08:42.240 --> 1:08:44.559 is turning eighteen in like three days. 1:08:44.600 --> 1:08:47.560 Wow, they're one of the best organizers. 1:08:47.600 --> 1:08:47.840 I know. 1:08:49.280 --> 1:08:52.040 It's it's wow, it's inspiring. 1:08:52.080 --> 1:08:54.640 But it's something that we I want our movement to 1:08:54.680 --> 1:08:58.400 do at scale as opposed to like having something like 1:08:58.439 --> 1:09:00.439 that every once in a while, Like you said, the 1:09:01.040 --> 1:09:04.439 idea of creating an entire generation, and I'd love to 1:09:04.479 --> 1:09:07.720 talk about a sort of thought process and plan around that. 1:09:07.800 --> 1:09:09.040 After the ad break. 1:09:09.840 --> 1:09:13.439 Here's some ads when we come back, we'll do things 1:09:13.479 --> 1:09:14.559 that aren't ads. 1:09:14.960 --> 1:09:15.679 Question mark. 1:09:16.280 --> 1:09:29.400 Oh and we are back to say what better ad transitions? 1:09:29.400 --> 1:09:34.759 They should raise my salary, Davin back. 1:09:35.200 --> 1:09:35.679 Awesome. 1:09:36.120 --> 1:09:38.200 So one of the things that I think is really 1:09:38.640 --> 1:09:43.400 in terms of a like for us, a stable niche 1:09:43.520 --> 1:09:46.599 in the movement ecology, is to be sort of a 1:09:46.640 --> 1:09:50.880 feeder for radical labor in a sort of way, like 1:09:51.920 --> 1:09:54.920 because one of the things is even if you are 1:09:55.080 --> 1:09:57.760 radical and you go into the labor movement, oftentimes you 1:09:57.840 --> 1:10:01.559 are going to be taught practic this is that rely 1:10:01.680 --> 1:10:06.000 on labor piece in meaningful ways, practices that are going 1:10:06.040 --> 1:10:09.200 to be going to be really disrupted if labor law 1:10:09.240 --> 1:10:12.080 weren't a thing and stuff like that, and it's something 1:10:12.120 --> 1:10:16.879 that holds back our ability to create a strongly organized 1:10:16.880 --> 1:10:22.200 working class. But in the context of schools, right, there 1:10:22.240 --> 1:10:25.080 is no labor law. There is no labor piece in 1:10:25.080 --> 1:10:30.080 a high school. Right, So as a place to practice 1:10:30.400 --> 1:10:34.320 the sort of radical class struggle organizing that we're talking about, 1:10:34.960 --> 1:10:38.360 it's sort of the perfect place because it's a simplified 1:10:38.880 --> 1:10:43.599 version of the workplace of like adult reality. There are 1:10:43.680 --> 1:10:49.519 obviously many other blockages, like students and young people miners 1:10:49.600 --> 1:10:54.080 have far far less power and far fewer rights than 1:10:54.439 --> 1:10:57.639 you do once you become an adult, and their family 1:10:57.680 --> 1:10:59.120 has far more power over them. 1:10:59.640 --> 1:11:00.839 There are huge barriers. 1:11:00.920 --> 1:11:05.879 But in terms of like grounding people in class struggle 1:11:06.160 --> 1:11:10.120 labor organizing tactics, I'm thinking of things that you can 1:11:10.320 --> 1:11:14.439 learn about in Jane mclavy's book No Shortcuts and stuff 1:11:14.479 --> 1:11:19.679 like that. They can learn how to use structure tests 1:11:19.920 --> 1:11:24.800 and use hard organizing conversations in order to build their 1:11:24.840 --> 1:11:29.920 power in a specific context and things like that, and 1:11:29.960 --> 1:11:33.280 whether or not they actually manage the strike. Right at 1:11:33.320 --> 1:11:35.320 the end of it, you have an eighteen year old 1:11:35.680 --> 1:11:40.160 entering the workforce who is a skilled, trained, class struggle 1:11:40.240 --> 1:11:44.800 organizer who has gained their politics completely outside of the 1:11:44.840 --> 1:11:45.920 context of labor peace. 1:11:46.760 --> 1:11:48.479 Yeah, And I think that that's one of the important 1:11:48.479 --> 1:11:50.280 aspects of this. And I think that the second one 1:11:50.320 --> 1:11:52.920 is something you were talking about earlier, which is sort 1:11:52.960 --> 1:11:56.200 of bridging the sort of labor ecological divide. And I 1:11:56.200 --> 1:11:59.000 think that's what happened more, which is encouraging because yes, 1:11:59.040 --> 1:12:02.679 there's been an enormous effort to make sure this doesn't happen. 1:12:02.760 --> 1:12:04.400 I mean, I think we've talked about this on this 1:12:04.520 --> 1:12:08.120 show at some point. I know, I know, Margaret's talked 1:12:08.160 --> 1:12:11.760 about it on Cooleeple this cool stuff. But I mean 1:12:11.960 --> 1:12:13.479 one of the most famous sigence people tried to do 1:12:13.520 --> 1:12:17.000 this is a iww dow organized it named Jody Berry 1:12:17.160 --> 1:12:21.360 and she so legally speaking, we don't know who killed her. 1:12:21.400 --> 1:12:23.360 What I will say is that she was killed by 1:12:23.360 --> 1:12:25.360 a car bomb that was virtually identical to a car 1:12:25.400 --> 1:12:28.120 bomb that was built by the FBI that wasedated by 1:12:28.120 --> 1:12:31.280 the FBI in their bomb like training things like a 1:12:31.320 --> 1:12:35.840 couple of weeks before. So right, we Jennie widely don't 1:12:35.880 --> 1:12:39.519 know who killed her. However, Kamba someone built a car 1:12:39.600 --> 1:12:41.559 bomb and blew her up in order to stop this 1:12:41.600 --> 1:12:44.479 from happening. So it is something that is very very 1:12:44.520 --> 1:12:47.400 obviously seen by the powers that be is extremely dangerous. 1:12:47.640 --> 1:12:50.439 Yeah, in the same way that we know exactly the 1:12:50.560 --> 1:12:54.559 singular one person who on his own completely killed Martin 1:12:54.600 --> 1:12:59.519 Luther King with no support from the US government. Yeah. 1:12:59.760 --> 1:13:03.040 Yeah, And like you know, I think this is this 1:13:03.080 --> 1:13:05.639 is an important moment to script do this because one 1:13:05.640 --> 1:13:07.400 of the things that the right is trying to do 1:13:08.320 --> 1:13:11.960 to like capture this sort of like moments of radical 1:13:12.000 --> 1:13:14.720 labor has been like Oh yeah, all the problems with 1:13:14.760 --> 1:13:16.840 the UAW are because the government wasn't fortunate to make 1:13:16.840 --> 1:13:19.559 electric cars. It's like, didn't you know there's very much 1:13:19.560 --> 1:13:23.280 like an anti ecological angle too, definitely to the way 1:13:23.280 --> 1:13:26.559 that sort of republican co option is happening. So it's 1:13:26.560 --> 1:13:28.519 another thing that we can use a simultaneous tactic for 1:13:28.560 --> 1:13:30.679 our side and helps defeat a co option attempt. 1:13:31.040 --> 1:13:35.280 In addition to this being a way to like take 1:13:35.320 --> 1:13:39.840 on the climate crisis in meaningful ways, the climate crisis 1:13:40.360 --> 1:13:44.280 is also a way where we can like make more 1:13:44.400 --> 1:13:47.479 radical demands. This is one of the reasons that I 1:13:47.600 --> 1:13:52.559 really love Sunrise and ecological like ecosocialist movements in general, 1:13:52.640 --> 1:13:57.639 because if you ask someone to seriously consider how do 1:13:57.680 --> 1:14:00.360 we address the climate crisis, and you're not paying them 1:14:00.400 --> 1:14:03.839 to have a specific answer, which is nonprofit industrial complex 1:14:03.880 --> 1:14:07.599 things like, if you ask someone to seriously consider what 1:14:07.640 --> 1:14:10.400 do we need to do in order to address the 1:14:10.400 --> 1:14:13.920 climate crisis in six months, you have a radical no 1:14:13.920 --> 1:14:14.280 matter what. 1:14:15.200 --> 1:14:18.120 In my experience, no one who I've ever. 1:14:18.479 --> 1:14:22.320 Talked to who has thought about that question seriously for 1:14:22.439 --> 1:14:25.720 six months and not avoided it has not come out 1:14:25.760 --> 1:14:27.920 the other end being like, oh, we need a general strike, 1:14:27.960 --> 1:14:29.519 we need a revolution, you know. 1:14:29.960 --> 1:14:30.960 Yeah, And so. 1:14:31.080 --> 1:14:35.760 Like being able to bring that exact, that exact analysis 1:14:35.880 --> 1:14:39.920 into the labor movement I think is one of the 1:14:40.040 --> 1:14:40.759 things that. 1:14:40.640 --> 1:14:42.240 Can bring back radical labor. 1:14:42.600 --> 1:14:46.840 You talk to labor leaders who might feel comfortable with 1:14:46.920 --> 1:14:49.320 labor peace and they're like, we can do this, we 1:14:49.400 --> 1:14:52.000 have time, and you're like, how much time exactly do 1:14:52.080 --> 1:14:52.439 we have? 1:14:52.920 --> 1:14:56.639 Like really think about it. Yeah, And this is something 1:14:56.680 --> 1:14:58.920 that we've seen. I think this is a good place to 1:14:58.920 --> 1:15:02.200 wrap up something that we've also seen in the way 1:15:02.240 --> 1:15:05.880 that immediate short term disaster response is happening, where you know, 1:15:06.000 --> 1:15:07.880 all of these sort of you have like millions of 1:15:07.880 --> 1:15:10.880 people who are like would not show up to a 1:15:11.000 --> 1:15:14.439 mutual aid thing are suddenly like out there doing mutual 1:15:14.520 --> 1:15:17.439 aid and have at least temporarily completely restructured the way 1:15:17.479 --> 1:15:20.600 the society works because they're confronted with the sort of 1:15:20.600 --> 1:15:26.160 immediacy of crisis and also the immediacy of the fact 1:15:26.200 --> 1:15:28.599 that the way that we have been doing things simply 1:15:28.720 --> 1:15:32.280 is not actually a functional way to for example, respond 1:15:32.320 --> 1:15:32.959 to a hurricane. 1:15:33.240 --> 1:15:33.679 Yeah. 1:15:33.800 --> 1:15:35.840 I think there's a bridge there between the sort of 1:15:35.880 --> 1:15:41.120 immediacy of this like mutual aid, disaster response politics, and 1:15:41.160 --> 1:15:44.719 the sort of long term goal of trying to actually 1:15:44.800 --> 1:15:48.280 like have sustained sensative action against the sort of climate devastation. 1:15:48.800 --> 1:15:53.160 Yeah, I completely agree, And this is quite a tangent 1:15:53.280 --> 1:15:56.559 from the specific topic that we're thinking about. But when 1:15:56.560 --> 1:16:01.000 I think about democratic confederalist politics, like Roseev was able 1:16:01.040 --> 1:16:03.839 to take power and have its revolution because the state retreated, 1:16:03.960 --> 1:16:06.799 and ideally we don't have a civil war that causes 1:16:06.840 --> 1:16:10.680 the state to retreat. Ideally, Yeah, one thing we do 1:16:10.840 --> 1:16:15.040 know will happen and is happening right now, is that 1:16:15.080 --> 1:16:19.920 the state retreats during disasters. The state retreats during climate disasters. 1:16:20.080 --> 1:16:23.799 And so if we're prepared to take that temporary mutual 1:16:23.840 --> 1:16:28.439 aid structures and jump on them in order to create 1:16:28.479 --> 1:16:32.679 systems like what they have in Rosheva and create build 1:16:32.680 --> 1:16:36.479 our labor movements, build our neighborhood power, build our direct 1:16:36.479 --> 1:16:39.640 democracy capabilities, and be able to be like, no, we 1:16:39.680 --> 1:16:43.520 want to keep these whenever the police come back, whenever. 1:16:43.479 --> 1:16:44.400 Da da da da da. 1:16:45.080 --> 1:16:49.960 Yeah, Like, there's going to be devastation, but there's also 1:16:50.200 --> 1:16:54.360 a lot of opportunities for creating really really beautiful things. 1:16:54.880 --> 1:16:57.680 Yeah, and I want to close on. There's now a 1:16:57.760 --> 1:17:02.960 whole argument as to whether or not whether or not 1:17:03.040 --> 1:17:06.519 Buena Ventura de Rudi, who is one of this very 1:17:06.600 --> 1:17:09.599 prominent organizers in the Spanish Revolution, ever actually said this, 1:17:09.920 --> 1:17:12.799 but there was a quote attributed to him that goes roughly, 1:17:12.880 --> 1:17:14.920 we are not in the least afraid of ruins, Like 1:17:15.360 --> 1:17:18.200 we are the people who built this world and we'll 1:17:18.560 --> 1:17:19.120 do it again. 1:17:19.479 --> 1:17:20.920 Wow. That's beautiful. 1:17:21.240 --> 1:17:23.839 Yeah, And I think that's in some sense the attitude 1:17:23.840 --> 1:17:25.639 that we have to be going into this here right 1:17:25.720 --> 1:17:28.800 of you know, like the path that we are on now. 1:17:28.840 --> 1:17:31.000 And this is true even if a movement takes power 1:17:31.000 --> 1:17:32.720 that is dedicated to actually sort of dealing with the 1:17:32.720 --> 1:17:35.960 climate crisis, right, the stuff that we have now is normal. 1:17:36.520 --> 1:17:37.800 This is just what the future is going to be. 1:17:37.840 --> 1:17:39.519 There's going to be disaster, it's going to be storms, 1:17:39.520 --> 1:17:44.400 it's going to be destruction. But again, fundamentally like we 1:17:44.479 --> 1:17:47.679 are the people who built this world and we can 1:17:47.760 --> 1:17:49.680 build it again. We're going to have to build it 1:17:49.680 --> 1:17:51.360 again and we're going to build it better. 1:17:51.560 --> 1:17:52.600 Yeah. 1:17:52.640 --> 1:17:57.080 Actually that makes me think of this one song that 1:17:57.120 --> 1:17:59.439 we sing a lot in Sunrise, like we have a 1:17:59.479 --> 1:18:01.400 really big cat focus on movement song. 1:18:01.840 --> 1:18:03.840 I would really love it if that could be the outro. 1:18:04.320 --> 1:18:08.519 Yeah, there are more waters rising this side I know 1:18:09.080 --> 1:18:13.080 the side I know there are more waters rising the 1:18:13.200 --> 1:18:13.760 side I know. 1:18:14.880 --> 1:18:20.120 It is a song called More Waters Rising by Sarah Lynch, 1:18:20.680 --> 1:18:27.599 who is a movement musician actually from Asheville, North Carolina. 1:18:27.800 --> 1:18:31.280 It's not fully clear to me right now if they 1:18:31.280 --> 1:18:35.960 are safe, but we've been singing this song for many years. 1:18:36.560 --> 1:18:42.160 There are more fires burning the side I know, there 1:18:42.280 --> 1:18:44.439 are more fires burning. 1:18:44.600 --> 1:18:45.960 They will find it. 1:18:45.960 --> 1:18:49.160 It is a song that I think really resonates with 1:18:50.120 --> 1:18:53.360 the thing that me and Mia just finished talking about 1:18:54.000 --> 1:18:59.200 knowing what's on the horizon, knowing the ruin that we 1:18:59.360 --> 1:19:04.080 may face, but also knowing that we're not afraid of 1:19:04.080 --> 1:19:06.960 that and that we can get through it. 1:19:07.520 --> 1:19:10.720 I will rebuild the mountains the sign no. 1:19:11.680 --> 1:19:11.920 Yeah. 1:19:12.080 --> 1:19:16.800 So I hope that you all find the strength with 1:19:17.120 --> 1:19:22.479 the song and with these plans to rebuild the mountains. 1:19:23.000 --> 1:19:23.360 Thank you. 1:19:23.360 --> 1:19:27.280 I will wait through the waters when they find their 1:19:27.320 --> 1:19:31.040 way to me. I will wait through the waters the 1:19:31.160 --> 1:19:35.799 sign o the sign I know. I will wade through the. 1:19:35.760 --> 1:19:37.479 Waters the sign no. 1:19:42.800 --> 1:19:46.639 Hello, and welcome to the podcast. It's a calm introduction today. 1:19:47.040 --> 1:19:50.240 It's just a chill one. It's me James and I'm 1:19:50.320 --> 1:19:51.080 joined by Mia. 1:19:51.080 --> 1:19:52.680 How you doing, Maya not. 1:19:52.840 --> 1:19:56.280 The best, but you know, we're hanging in there. We're 1:19:56.280 --> 1:19:59.000 defeating We're defeating the illness of the frailness of the 1:19:59.040 --> 1:19:59.759 human body. 1:20:00.160 --> 1:20:03.400 Yeah, overcoming the surly bonds of Earth, the types of 1:20:03.439 --> 1:20:04.439 face of God or something. 1:20:04.479 --> 1:20:06.280 That's what Elon Musk does every day. Of course. 1:20:06.439 --> 1:20:08.679 Yeah, when we're doing this at the power of cough medicine, 1:20:08.680 --> 1:20:09.400 it's going to be great. 1:20:10.320 --> 1:20:12.640 Yeah, yeah, not the kind of cough medicine that you 1:20:12.640 --> 1:20:15.719 can only buy so much of. Okay, So we're here today, 1:20:15.920 --> 1:20:19.720 how by cough medicine, to discuss the United Nations inter 1:20:19.840 --> 1:20:23.080 reinforce in Lebanon. Of course, thing that we haven't talked 1:20:23.080 --> 1:20:25.479 about before, but the lots of people are talking about 1:20:25.520 --> 1:20:28.920 on the internet, and I wanted to like just clear 1:20:29.000 --> 1:20:32.280 up what I think is some misunderstandings or like just 1:20:32.360 --> 1:20:35.040 a lack of background, sort of explain what they do, 1:20:35.920 --> 1:20:39.719 Explain who it's composed of, a little bit of history 1:20:39.880 --> 1:20:44.400 and sort of its role here. As Israel begins attacking 1:20:44.479 --> 1:20:47.360 Lebanon as it did Gaza, right and as it has 1:20:47.400 --> 1:20:49.360 continued to attack the West Bank as well. 1:20:49.680 --> 1:20:51.360 Yeah, and as we're going to get to the end 1:20:51.400 --> 1:20:53.960 of this episode, they've started making a small push into Syria. 1:20:54.360 --> 1:20:56.880 So great things happening here. Well, we'll get to that 1:20:57.240 --> 1:20:57.839 the episode. 1:20:58.080 --> 1:21:03.480 Yeah, yeah, again employing an entirely proprietary understanding of borders 1:21:03.520 --> 1:21:05.080 and where they are and how they work. 1:21:05.280 --> 1:21:10.280 Maybe they're actually the no borders state. Like and it's Anderson. 1:21:10.760 --> 1:21:14.240 My opposition to the Sykes picode borders is well known, 1:21:14.320 --> 1:21:15.840 but not like this man. 1:21:17.040 --> 1:21:19.240 It is not like that when I said destroy. 1:21:18.920 --> 1:21:23.400 The borders and Evan diagram the overlap of people who 1:21:23.479 --> 1:21:27.519 disagree with Sykes pecod it's Mia Wong, the Kurdistan Workers 1:21:27.520 --> 1:21:30.680 Party in Israel, but like it's very small and they 1:21:30.720 --> 1:21:32.519 disagree with it for very different reasons. 1:21:33.120 --> 1:21:35.360 Isis too, Yeah that's true. Yeah, yeah, you're really in 1:21:35.360 --> 1:21:38.120 a good company. Yeah, I remember back in back in 1:21:38.200 --> 1:21:40.880 like twenty fourteen. So this one's for there's there are 1:21:40.880 --> 1:21:42.280 a bunch of kids who listen. 1:21:42.080 --> 1:21:43.720 To this show. And by kids, I mean people who 1:21:43.720 --> 1:21:44.720 weren't like twenty. 1:21:44.439 --> 1:21:47.280 Seven, who don't remember the fact that you could just 1:21:47.400 --> 1:21:51.599 argue with isis people on Twitter fifteen and like they 1:21:51.600 --> 1:21:54.519 had a really good pr operation. Oh incredible. Yeah, and 1:21:54.520 --> 1:21:56.320 one of the arguments who would make was like, well, yeah, 1:21:56.320 --> 1:22:00.200 we're trying to destroy the imperialists, like psychso borders were 1:22:00.240 --> 1:22:04.960 like well okay, well, like you're doing this by establishing ISIS. 1:22:05.040 --> 1:22:10.280 It's like really, yeah, there was a wild time when 1:22:10.320 --> 1:22:12.559 you could argue them, Like you can still argue with 1:22:12.720 --> 1:22:16.160 like an assadist occasionally on Twitter or like oh sure, 1:22:16.200 --> 1:22:16.479 but like. 1:22:16.520 --> 1:22:19.280 This wasn't even just like people who support them. This 1:22:19.439 --> 1:22:21.720 was like actual isis PR guys. 1:22:21.960 --> 1:22:25.040 Yeah, yeah, there was. Their whole job was to argue 1:22:25.040 --> 1:22:28.240 with you. Yeah, there are some pretty good articles from 1:22:28.280 --> 1:22:30.559 back in that time period about that if you're too 1:22:30.600 --> 1:22:33.160 young to remember that. But yeah, So we're talking about 1:22:33.240 --> 1:22:35.840 UNIFIL today right at the United Nations intermforcing lemanon why 1:22:35.880 --> 1:22:38.599 are we talking about them? Because the IDF has spent 1:22:38.640 --> 1:22:42.320 the last week or so edging on just openly attacking them, 1:22:42.479 --> 1:22:44.559 and it has more or less openly attacked them, but 1:22:44.600 --> 1:22:48.640 it hasn't done so in like a complete way. I 1:22:48.680 --> 1:22:50.760 guess we'll talk a little bit now about some of 1:22:50.800 --> 1:22:52.439 the things which have happened, because I think we should 1:22:52.439 --> 1:22:55.160 probably start there, and then what'd explain who UNIFIL are, 1:22:55.200 --> 1:22:55.800 what they do. 1:22:55.720 --> 1:22:57.400 Whether they're etcetera. A little bit of history. 1:22:57.600 --> 1:23:00.200 So UNIPHIL has called the situation with the idea of 1:23:00.240 --> 1:23:04.280 extremely serious and a flagrant violation of international law, a 1:23:04.280 --> 1:23:07.760 phrase which is used every time Israel does anything, because. 1:23:07.400 --> 1:23:10.599 It's true and then nothing happens, and then nothing happens. 1:23:10.680 --> 1:23:13.240 Yeah, and that's I think where we're going to end 1:23:13.320 --> 1:23:18.000 up today, is that like it's good that they are there, right, like, 1:23:18.520 --> 1:23:21.479 just to a big picture, this what Israel has done 1:23:21.800 --> 1:23:25.040 in Lebanon, in Gaza and in the West Bank is 1:23:25.240 --> 1:23:29.120 it has attacked anyone who is any form of outside observer, right, 1:23:29.200 --> 1:23:32.519 it has killed aid workers, it has killed journalists, and 1:23:32.560 --> 1:23:37.200 it has shot artillery rounds that peacekeepers injured peacekeepers in Lebanon. Right, 1:23:37.280 --> 1:23:41.120 anyone who can provide any form of independent oversight, who 1:23:41.120 --> 1:23:44.080 can provide any form of accountability for what they're doing, 1:23:44.720 --> 1:23:45.479 is in danger. 1:23:45.760 --> 1:23:47.519 And this like is more or less. 1:23:47.520 --> 1:23:49.360 I mean, Rassia does this a little bit too, right, 1:23:49.400 --> 1:23:53.759 but like among like I don't know what we're supposed 1:23:53.800 --> 1:23:57.439 to understand. It's relative democracy, but like this war seems 1:23:57.439 --> 1:24:00.599 to be pretty unpopular even there. And then yahoo, isn't 1:24:01.120 --> 1:24:03.880 He's taken a Trump approach to democracy. Let's say, Israel 1:24:04.280 --> 1:24:06.960 seemingly murdering journalists as part of his policy as a 1:24:06.960 --> 1:24:10.599 goal of its invasion of Gaza is pretty unique, even 1:24:10.640 --> 1:24:12.840 by the standards of like other Western militaries who have 1:24:12.920 --> 1:24:14.840 done some pretty terrible things in the Middle East in 1:24:14.840 --> 1:24:18.040 the last twenty years. So some of the things they've 1:24:18.080 --> 1:24:20.920 done in recent days. It's fired smoke grounds about one 1:24:21.000 --> 1:24:24.120 hundred meters from their compounds, causing uniform peacekeepers to have 1:24:24.160 --> 1:24:27.280 to done their gas masks. Fifteen of them were injured. 1:24:27.320 --> 1:24:30.519 They have like skin irritation for whatever the munition was. 1:24:30.840 --> 1:24:33.519 I don't quite know what it was. I guess I 1:24:33.520 --> 1:24:37.559 think expired smokes can do that, and tear gases old 1:24:37.840 --> 1:24:40.760 tear gas can do that. You're not supposed to use 1:24:40.800 --> 1:24:43.840 tear gas. Yeah, that's a war crime. Yeah, that's a 1:24:43.840 --> 1:24:46.120 war crime. It's a warkind that lots of people do. 1:24:46.240 --> 1:24:47.960 To be fair, like, they wouldn't be the first one 1:24:47.960 --> 1:24:50.719 I'd seen. But then again, right, like these are people, 1:24:50.760 --> 1:24:52.640 are they signature's to a genet of convention? Actually, I 1:24:52.680 --> 1:24:54.680 don't know that's a good they are. They don't give 1:24:54.680 --> 1:24:58.200 a fuck. Does it really matter that? Yeah, have a look, 1:24:58.280 --> 1:24:59.120 I'm interested to know. 1:24:59.360 --> 1:24:59.960 Yeah, they are. 1:25:00.080 --> 1:25:02.080 We have ratified the Video of Convention, which I guess 1:25:02.200 --> 1:25:06.920 makes them mildly more bigger international law bound in the US. 1:25:08.280 --> 1:25:11.519 The ultimate rogue state, Yeah, yeah, exactly. 1:25:11.880 --> 1:25:13.439 I mean it's relis is pretty much a rogue state 1:25:13.439 --> 1:25:15.800 at this point, right Like that I think is oh yeah, 1:25:16.080 --> 1:25:18.160 the sort of the frame of analysisue which they should 1:25:18.160 --> 1:25:20.880 be understood. A rogue state doing violence set alone is 1:25:20.960 --> 1:25:23.679 wherever the fuck it wants with your taxpayer money, because 1:25:24.439 --> 1:25:26.720 apparently there's nothing it can do which will cause it 1:25:26.760 --> 1:25:29.320 to have one centimeter of accountability from the US. 1:25:29.600 --> 1:25:30.160 Yeah. 1:25:30.320 --> 1:25:31.800 Other things they've been getting up to. 1:25:32.040 --> 1:25:35.760 They've knocked down compound walls of the UNIFIL compounds. 1:25:35.960 --> 1:25:39.320 Can we explain what uniform is, by the way, Yeah, sure. So. 1:25:39.400 --> 1:25:42.400 The UNIFIL is the United Nations Interimforce in Lebanon. It's 1:25:42.439 --> 1:25:47.559 tasked with peacekeeping, monitoring the withdrawal of the IDF. So 1:25:47.840 --> 1:25:52.439 in theory, the IDEF, as we'll get into, has invaded 1:25:52.520 --> 1:25:59.160 Lebanon many times in theory since two thousand and six, 1:25:59.640 --> 1:26:02.599 which was the last time it's sort of invaded Lebanon 1:26:02.600 --> 1:26:05.120 On Like it's invaded Lebanon on a very small scale. 1:26:05.320 --> 1:26:08.839 The hundreds of times, right, like, for instance, stepping across 1:26:08.880 --> 1:26:12.639 the border, which the border is not entirely agreed upon 1:26:12.640 --> 1:26:15.439 by its Lebanon, but the United Nations has imposed something 1:26:15.479 --> 1:26:17.320 called a blue line, which is what it considers to 1:26:17.360 --> 1:26:19.720 be the border. It's Raeli troops will go across that 1:26:19.800 --> 1:26:22.120 to trim trees a lot so they can like spy 1:26:22.280 --> 1:26:25.439 more effectively. Right, they literally have towers and cameras and stuff. 1:26:26.000 --> 1:26:28.679 But in two thousand and six, people who are old 1:26:28.760 --> 1:26:31.920 like myself were members. Last time it did a sort 1:26:31.920 --> 1:26:35.360 of full scale evasion of Lebanon and on its withdrawal. 1:26:35.760 --> 1:26:37.200 I'll just go through the history of uniform now and 1:26:37.200 --> 1:26:39.240 we can talk about the attack later, I guess. So 1:26:39.760 --> 1:26:44.599 they're supposed to keep the IDF and Husbulla in theory 1:26:44.720 --> 1:26:47.519 out of an area between the Latani River and the 1:26:47.520 --> 1:26:50.280 blue line. The blue line is where the UN through 1:26:50.280 --> 1:26:53.800 the border in two thousand and The idea is that 1:26:53.840 --> 1:26:55.960 the border was drawn there by the UN to determine 1:26:56.000 --> 1:26:59.360 if israel hood withdrawn from Lebanon. That doesn't necessarily mean 1:26:59.360 --> 1:27:00.920 that all parties are accepted as the border. 1:27:00.960 --> 1:27:02.640 They don't, but it is blue line for now. 1:27:03.080 --> 1:27:07.320 The unfl have been in Lebanon since nineteen seventy eight. 1:27:07.960 --> 1:27:08.720 That was one of the. 1:27:08.640 --> 1:27:11.040 Times when israelevated Lebanon. At that point they were looking 1:27:11.040 --> 1:27:15.040 for the PO. Yeah, I think the PLO had crossed 1:27:15.080 --> 1:27:19.080 over from Lebanon to attack and massacre people in Israel. 1:27:19.240 --> 1:27:21.720 Right at which point Israel then decided to just go 1:27:21.840 --> 1:27:26.439 hog and in fully invade Lebanon seventy eight, in invaded again 1:27:26.520 --> 1:27:30.080 in eighty two while UNIFIL were there, and it sort 1:27:30.080 --> 1:27:32.679 of bypassed uniful position to that point. And it doesn't 1:27:32.720 --> 1:27:35.760 mean that people didn't die in these invasions uniform troops 1:27:35.960 --> 1:27:38.759 of peacekeepers, because they did, right, Like it's a dangerous 1:27:38.760 --> 1:27:39.200 place to. 1:27:39.160 --> 1:27:41.479 Be Also, like eighty two was like the saber Chatila massacre, 1:27:41.720 --> 1:27:45.120 like yes, like I was just like hideous Israeli massacres 1:27:45.160 --> 1:27:48.600 of refugee camps, which the kind of thing that like 1:27:48.960 --> 1:27:52.080 used to cause more anger in the US that it 1:27:52.120 --> 1:27:53.000 did now. 1:27:53.280 --> 1:27:56.439 Like yeah, now it's another day that ends in why right, 1:27:57.240 --> 1:28:00.720 you know the BOMBDA hospital again. It's a year of 1:28:00.760 --> 1:28:05.160 bombing hospitals now and it doesn't seem to register anymore, 1:28:05.320 --> 1:28:09.160 doesn't you know, make the headlines? Yeah, in eighty two, 1:28:09.479 --> 1:28:14.200 Israel bombed compound, and it took Israel until the year 1:28:14.240 --> 1:28:19.160 two thousand to quote unquote withdraw from Lebanon. And at 1:28:19.160 --> 1:28:21.040 that point that was when the blue line was drawn. 1:28:21.120 --> 1:28:23.600 Right during that time, before two thousand, it wasn't just 1:28:23.680 --> 1:28:26.000 the IDF that was operating in the area. You also 1:28:26.080 --> 1:28:30.440 had the South Lebanese Army. I don't like the division 1:28:30.720 --> 1:28:33.160 of groups in this part of the world exclusively along 1:28:33.200 --> 1:28:35.679 religious lines, because I think that doesn't entirely explain things 1:28:35.680 --> 1:28:39.200 always and I think it's like a very analyst brain 1:28:39.240 --> 1:28:42.080 way of seeing things, like to be like, oh, these 1:28:42.080 --> 1:28:43.680 are the sites and they do this, the sort of 1:28:43.720 --> 1:28:46.840 sunnies and they do this. But the SLA is a 1:28:46.880 --> 1:28:51.000 majority Christian organization and like it began as its own 1:28:51.040 --> 1:28:53.880 independent thing in the Civil War Lebanon, but it became 1:28:53.880 --> 1:28:56.559 more or lesson it's really proxy, right, it's certainly in 1:28:56.600 --> 1:29:00.000 this area and the UN caused them. It's really different 1:29:00.040 --> 1:29:03.320 fact forces, which is kind of a bold move from 1:29:03.360 --> 1:29:06.840 the UN. Actually, like yeah, to just say it. Of course, 1:29:06.840 --> 1:29:09.360 saying it and doing it is another thing. But like 1:29:09.760 --> 1:29:12.519 during the time from eighty two to two thousand, it's 1:29:12.520 --> 1:29:16.679 relevated multiple times, right, including in nineteen ninety six, when 1:29:16.920 --> 1:29:18.880 just in the year of nineteen ninety six it's rail 1:29:18.920 --> 1:29:23.200 fired on uniform peacekeepers two hundred and seventy times. So like, 1:29:24.040 --> 1:29:27.960 I think that's like every weekday for the entire year. 1:29:28.000 --> 1:29:30.040 To put things in perspective, you know, like if they 1:29:30.040 --> 1:29:34.559 took weekends off, they fired on them every weekday, including 1:29:34.600 --> 1:29:38.800 shelling a uniform compound after the withdrawal in two thousand withdrawal, 1:29:39.160 --> 1:29:42.200 uniform stasks of peacekeeping, monitoring the withdrawal and assisting the 1:29:42.280 --> 1:29:44.880 Lebanese government in restoring it for authority in the area, 1:29:44.960 --> 1:29:48.160 and a UN mandate seventeen oh one two thousand and six, 1:29:48.439 --> 1:29:52.040 it's relevated again and eventually it's sort of ground to 1:29:52.040 --> 1:29:54.360 a stand still that time, ground to stand on top 1:29:54.400 --> 1:29:57.080 of a massive pile of civilian bodies, as it tends 1:29:57.120 --> 1:30:01.519 to do. Right, they bombay route in. I remember that 1:30:01.600 --> 1:30:04.920 I was I was traveling in the Middle East in. 1:30:04.840 --> 1:30:05.639 Two thousand and six. 1:30:05.720 --> 1:30:09.200 I remember just being like, oh, this is It's one 1:30:09.320 --> 1:30:11.280 thing to watch war on TV when you're at home, 1:30:11.320 --> 1:30:13.360 but when you're that little bit closer, and it's people 1:30:13.360 --> 1:30:16.760 who are like my cousin is there, my brother is there, 1:30:17.080 --> 1:30:19.639 A good school friend of mine was within Beiru. 1:30:19.680 --> 1:30:20.559 I remember like. 1:30:21.960 --> 1:30:24.120 It was one of my earlier experiences of just being 1:30:24.160 --> 1:30:27.320 like this is horrific and there's nothing we can do, 1:30:27.560 --> 1:30:30.040 Like no one seems to care. No one's going to 1:30:30.080 --> 1:30:33.680 stop them, and like here we are getting on for 1:30:33.720 --> 1:30:35.880 two decades later, and in fact, no one has stopped them. 1:30:35.960 --> 1:30:37.840 They're still doing it. Talking of things that no one 1:30:37.840 --> 1:30:41.120 can stop. Yeah, no one can stop the relentless march 1:30:41.160 --> 1:30:43.040 of capitalism. And that is why we now have to 1:30:43.080 --> 1:30:44.640 pivot to advertisements. 1:30:54.120 --> 1:30:54.679 We are back. 1:30:55.479 --> 1:30:58.320 So in two thousand and six, once again Israel killed 1:30:58.320 --> 1:31:00.880 you and peacekeepers right. Perhaps the most notable incident is 1:31:00.880 --> 1:31:04.320 when a precision guided bomb struck a bunker and which 1:31:04.320 --> 1:31:08.639 four UN peacekeepers were sheltering. They'd been shelled fourteen times 1:31:08.720 --> 1:31:11.639 that day. They had then gone to their bunker right 1:31:11.800 --> 1:31:14.120 to be protected from the shelling, at which point they 1:31:14.200 --> 1:31:16.800 received this precision guide a munition which killed four of them. 1:31:17.600 --> 1:31:22.000 The peacekeepers were from Austria, Canada, China and Finland. Later 1:31:22.439 --> 1:31:24.800 the UN sent like a quick reaction for US and 1:31:24.840 --> 1:31:27.599 a rescue team, which the IDF also shelled. 1:31:28.120 --> 1:31:32.679 Jesus Christ, Yeah. 1:31:31.880 --> 1:31:34.920 I think this may be the time to point out 1:31:34.920 --> 1:31:37.559 that like I think a lot of people are maybe hopeful, 1:31:37.600 --> 1:31:41.880 and maybe it's true that like if Israel crosses a 1:31:41.960 --> 1:31:46.280 line with attacking like European people, that will matter more 1:31:46.479 --> 1:31:48.960 to the nation that the states and governments of the 1:31:48.960 --> 1:31:52.040 world than it has done with killing Palestinian civilians. And 1:31:52.080 --> 1:31:53.960 to a degree, they might be right, like you might. 1:31:54.280 --> 1:31:57.640 You've had statements from a dozen or so countries that 1:31:57.720 --> 1:32:01.840 Israel shouldn't be attacking, but they're still getting this fire 1:32:01.880 --> 1:32:04.640 hose of money and weapons. Right, There's still been no 1:32:04.800 --> 1:32:07.920 actual accountability, and I think that will actually start them 1:32:07.920 --> 1:32:10.719 from doing what they're doing. That's not like the fault 1:32:10.760 --> 1:32:13.680 of the people on the ground in JUNI fill for 1:32:13.680 --> 1:32:18.840 the most part. Yeah, but nonetheless it's the case. It 1:32:18.960 --> 1:32:20.840 was also in that incident in two thousand and six, 1:32:20.920 --> 1:32:24.160 and I was talking about UNIFIL called the IDF ten 1:32:24.240 --> 1:32:26.320 times to ask them to stop shelling. And this bunker, 1:32:26.360 --> 1:32:29.559 by the way, I'm not talking about like concealed position, right, 1:32:29.640 --> 1:32:31.880 Like I've been in bunkers and I'm away for work 1:32:31.960 --> 1:32:33.960 that you might not be able to see very easily. 1:32:34.120 --> 1:32:36.559 This bad boy is painted bright white with the letters 1:32:36.640 --> 1:32:40.559 U N on it. Like it's incredibly well marked, it's 1:32:40.600 --> 1:32:43.559 impossible to miss, you know, it stands out like a sauta. 1:32:43.960 --> 1:32:46.680 That's where they drop their precision guide ammunition. There was 1:32:46.720 --> 1:32:49.280 also an instant in twenty ten. This might be one 1:32:49.360 --> 1:32:52.440 people remember, and this is one of the tree trimming incidents. 1:32:52.920 --> 1:32:55.280 So the IDF was trying to trim trees along the 1:32:55.280 --> 1:32:58.680 blue line and the Levelese military perceived them to have 1:32:58.760 --> 1:33:01.840 vented Lebanon. I'm sure the IDEAF perceived themselves to be 1:33:01.880 --> 1:33:05.320 inside Israel. The Idea's understanding of borders, as I said, 1:33:05.439 --> 1:33:11.760 is somewhat unique, and so Indonesian UNIFIL troops were there. 1:33:12.040 --> 1:33:14.639 This is a particularly interesting incident. The Indonesian troops seem 1:33:14.640 --> 1:33:16.599 to be pretty popular in Lebanon. From what I can tell, 1:33:16.880 --> 1:33:20.080 there are forty one nations that take part in UNIFIL right, 1:33:20.479 --> 1:33:25.920 but there are large contingents of Spanish, French, German, Italian, 1:33:26.280 --> 1:33:30.160 Irish peacekeepers and Indonesian and nepoally peacekeepers as well. The 1:33:30.200 --> 1:33:35.320 Indonesians are interesting because the government doesn't recognize Israel and 1:33:35.400 --> 1:33:38.479 so they have no diplomacy like I don't quite know 1:33:38.520 --> 1:33:39.400 how they manage that. 1:33:39.479 --> 1:33:40.360 Because as we'll get. 1:33:40.240 --> 1:33:44.440 Into beautiful, it's controlled by this thing called a tripartite mechanism, 1:33:45.080 --> 1:33:48.160 whereby they have to agree on almost everything with the 1:33:48.240 --> 1:33:50.960 government of Lebanon or the military of Lebanese Army and 1:33:51.000 --> 1:33:55.240 the IDF, which is it's kind of classic un right. 1:33:55.280 --> 1:33:58.080 You have these people there who are positioned to do 1:33:58.160 --> 1:34:02.240 something really important right now, which is to stop the 1:34:02.280 --> 1:34:05.680 IDF doing in Lebanon what he's done in Gaza, but 1:34:05.720 --> 1:34:08.000 they've managed to engineer themselves into a situation where they 1:34:08.160 --> 1:34:10.559 the IDF also has a veto on pretty much anything 1:34:10.600 --> 1:34:13.519 they can do. Yeah, which, like I was told, I 1:34:13.560 --> 1:34:16.120 spoke to someone who was very familiar with the operations 1:34:16.120 --> 1:34:17.840 of UNIFIL and they were trying to me for instance, 1:34:17.840 --> 1:34:21.280 so the IDF had been able to control what munitions 1:34:21.320 --> 1:34:24.760 they were able to bring into the country Jesus, which 1:34:24.840 --> 1:34:27.840 matters because, as we'll get into, one of the things 1:34:27.880 --> 1:34:29.960 that IDF likes to do is like literally knock on 1:34:30.000 --> 1:34:32.559 their front door with main battle tanks. Right that they 1:34:32.560 --> 1:34:35.200 actually knocked down the front gate of the uniform compound 1:34:35.200 --> 1:34:38.880 with a macarver tank. Certainly like knocking the front gate 1:34:38.920 --> 1:34:40.960 down with a mccarvery is one way of going about 1:34:40.960 --> 1:34:42.840 asking yeah, which is insane. 1:34:43.280 --> 1:34:47.400 Yeah, like these people just completely lost their minds. 1:34:48.000 --> 1:34:50.760 Yeah, I mean that's that's the thing, right, Like, I 1:34:50.800 --> 1:34:52.439 think that's what I want folks to take away from 1:34:52.479 --> 1:34:55.280 this is that, like it's unlikely that the UN is 1:34:55.320 --> 1:34:57.599 going to go toe to toe with the IDF at 1:34:57.600 --> 1:34:58.000 this point. 1:34:58.080 --> 1:34:58.280 Yeah. 1:34:58.400 --> 1:35:02.840 No, that doesn't mean, as I've seen people saying that 1:35:02.920 --> 1:35:06.120 either they're there to spy for the IDF, they're not. 1:35:06.600 --> 1:35:10.879 The IDEF keeps killing them, yeah, in quite large numbers, 1:35:11.000 --> 1:35:13.599 Like I think forty two Irish people have been killed 1:35:13.600 --> 1:35:18.080 in the history of uniful deployments. Dozens from other countries too, right, 1:35:18.680 --> 1:35:20.880 Nor does this mean there's annet Yahu has called them 1:35:20.960 --> 1:35:24.760 quote hostages of Husbolla, which is kind of a ridiculous 1:35:24.760 --> 1:35:26.680 claim as many of the things that come out of 1:35:26.680 --> 1:35:30.360 his mouth are like they're also categorically not that they're 1:35:30.360 --> 1:35:33.400 hostages of the United Nations. And there's this system that 1:35:33.439 --> 1:35:37.599 it's backed itself into whereby two Beligerian parties can stop 1:35:37.640 --> 1:35:39.960 them doing anything they do. So I'll give you an 1:35:39.960 --> 1:35:43.360 example about twenty ten. K's right, these Indonesian uniform troops 1:35:43.400 --> 1:35:46.760 are trying to prevent the IDF from the Lebanese Army 1:35:46.800 --> 1:35:50.000 firing at each other. The IDEF is entering into Lebanon 1:35:50.080 --> 1:35:52.000 to cut down some trees, and in the perspective of 1:35:52.000 --> 1:35:54.519 the Lebanese army, I guess, they started throwing insults on 1:35:54.560 --> 1:35:57.120 one another, and soon enough they start shooting each other. 1:35:57.479 --> 1:36:00.640 So two Indonesian peacekeepers. There was a video of this 1:36:00.840 --> 1:36:04.479 that went around for a while. So the Indonesians decide 1:36:04.479 --> 1:36:05.720 that basically there's nothing. 1:36:05.439 --> 1:36:05.880 We can do. 1:36:06.200 --> 1:36:08.040 They're going to shoot at each other, and that they 1:36:08.080 --> 1:36:12.160 decide to withdraw, which probably isn't the best. They're like, 1:36:12.560 --> 1:36:14.799 you know that they're not keeping peace by force, I guess, 1:36:14.920 --> 1:36:18.479 but they basically decide there's nothing they can do. They 1:36:18.479 --> 1:36:22.040 decide to pull out. Local people construct a roadblock to 1:36:22.120 --> 1:36:24.400 try and make them stay and prevent the IDEA from 1:36:24.479 --> 1:36:25.160 entering Lebanon. 1:36:27.000 --> 1:36:27.920 This happens a lot. 1:36:28.240 --> 1:36:32.400 This is like you'll see this happening, and this happened 1:36:32.400 --> 1:36:34.000 in various Like I'm going to get into some other 1:36:34.080 --> 1:36:37.760 un situations where this has happened, right, But the two 1:36:37.920 --> 1:36:40.800 peacekeepers get separated from their unit. This is a video 1:36:40.880 --> 1:36:43.720 that kind of went around at the time. Like I'm 1:36:43.720 --> 1:36:46.760 sure they're genuinely afraid at that point. Right in the video, 1:36:46.760 --> 1:36:48.320 they're being helped by local folks and they end up 1:36:48.320 --> 1:36:51.120 getting in a taxi to like leave and come back 1:36:51.160 --> 1:36:55.000 to their base, and which like I'm sure they were 1:36:55.000 --> 1:36:57.040 in a pretty shitty they were having a bad yeah. Yeah, 1:36:57.200 --> 1:37:00.400 And to quote Major General A. Lam Pelgamne, who is 1:37:00.439 --> 1:37:02.800 a French officer who's uniform commander from two thousand and 1:37:02.800 --> 1:37:05.200 four to two thousand and seven, quite the problem is 1:37:05.240 --> 1:37:07.519 in such cases as this, if you intervene to protect 1:37:07.560 --> 1:37:09.839 the IDF, for instance, you know it will be accused 1:37:09.840 --> 1:37:12.519 by Husbulla or the people of protecting the Israelis and 1:37:12.520 --> 1:37:13.559 collaborating with the enemy. 1:37:13.960 --> 1:37:14.559 The other side. 1:37:14.600 --> 1:37:16.639 If we do the same with the Lebanese, it's able 1:37:16.640 --> 1:37:20.599 to accuse the unifor of collaborating with Husbula. So like, yes, 1:37:20.680 --> 1:37:24.920 it will in the situation that we're seeing currently, Like 1:37:25.520 --> 1:37:28.719 I think, obviously, like what Israel thinks and says doesn't 1:37:28.720 --> 1:37:31.680 really have much credibility anymore because they're ruled by this 1:37:31.720 --> 1:37:32.759 tripartite mechanism. 1:37:32.840 --> 1:37:34.280 There's really very little they can do. 1:37:34.680 --> 1:37:38.400 Yeah, they can fire people if they're fired upon, but 1:37:38.760 --> 1:37:43.800 the IDEF isn't like engaging them in small arms combat. Right, 1:37:43.960 --> 1:37:47.759 They're lobbing artillery shelves into their compound. They're firing smoke, 1:37:48.240 --> 1:37:52.360 they're bashing down their walls with Caterpillar armored bulldozers. The 1:37:52.479 --> 1:37:57.080 IDF loves an armor bulldozer. Yeah, because I mean you 1:37:57.080 --> 1:37:58.840 can probably join the dots on why the IDF loves 1:37:58.880 --> 1:38:01.240 a armored bulldozer. You know that they're in the business 1:38:01.240 --> 1:38:05.360 of knocking stuff down, I guess, And yeah, going into 1:38:05.479 --> 1:38:08.519 urban areas and disturbing people's homes. That's I'm sure other 1:38:08.560 --> 1:38:10.720 folks have vomorable though this too. Just the IDF is 1:38:10.800 --> 1:38:13.599 kind of well known for using these things. They shot 1:38:13.640 --> 1:38:17.000 down an observation tower last week which had two peace 1:38:17.080 --> 1:38:19.439 keepers in it, and obviously those people were injured because 1:38:19.520 --> 1:38:23.639 that tower got shot down. But like they're not fully 1:38:23.680 --> 1:38:26.679 attacking them enough that those peacekeepers would like defend themselves 1:38:26.840 --> 1:38:30.000 or their their positions. And I think if people are 1:38:30.040 --> 1:38:34.040 like hoping that somehow like an engagement between peacekeepers and 1:38:34.160 --> 1:38:37.240 the IDF will be what causes accountability, I don't think 1:38:37.240 --> 1:38:37.880 that's going to happen. 1:38:38.080 --> 1:38:40.840 Yeah, And for like for the UN to actually like 1:38:41.800 --> 1:38:46.400 really seriously intervene in a world like this, it takes 1:38:46.479 --> 1:38:48.680 one of the UN Security Council members being like we 1:38:48.760 --> 1:38:50.880 will send our own troops. That's like how the UN 1:38:50.880 --> 1:38:53.559 got involved in Korea, right, Yeah, Like the US was 1:38:53.600 --> 1:38:55.240 like fuck it, we're gonna send an army there, and 1:38:55.360 --> 1:38:58.320 like Russia is not going to like send an army. 1:38:58.840 --> 1:39:01.400 They are significantly too busy the invading Ukraine and selling 1:39:01.439 --> 1:39:03.800 natural gas to Israel to do anything. China is not 1:39:03.840 --> 1:39:06.080 going to do it because there is real second largest 1:39:06.080 --> 1:39:09.439 trading partner and they don't give a shit. Like no, no, no, 1:39:09.479 --> 1:39:14.479 one's actually going to like send troops to like back 1:39:14.560 --> 1:39:17.600 some kind of like UN mandate to like stop the 1:39:17.760 --> 1:39:20.160 Disraelis from doing this. Like that's just like not even 1:39:20.400 --> 1:39:22.400 if the Israelis were to just start killing peace keepers, 1:39:22.400 --> 1:39:24.160 like it's not going to happen. It's never happened any 1:39:24.160 --> 1:39:27.120 other time. The Israelis have killed peacekeepers. 1:39:26.840 --> 1:39:32.080 Yeah, like peacekeepers have in other places for yeah that 1:39:32.160 --> 1:39:35.800 for instance, Irish peacekeepers in Congo, right or the Canadians 1:39:36.160 --> 1:39:39.880 and indeed like the uniform have engaged in combat before. 1:39:39.960 --> 1:39:43.040 But I think the chances of them like stopping the 1:39:43.080 --> 1:39:45.320 IDF invasion or extremely slim. 1:39:45.439 --> 1:39:45.679 Yeah. 1:39:45.720 --> 1:39:47.439 Like and if you're finding a state that is just 1:39:47.640 --> 1:39:51.120 directly an American proxy, like there's no way yeah, it's 1:39:51.160 --> 1:39:53.960 like I don't even think like the seventies n AM, 1:39:54.080 --> 1:39:56.439 like not a line movement like dominated UN could have 1:39:56.439 --> 1:40:00.479 pulled something like that off. And like this UN will not. 1:40:01.960 --> 1:40:05.240 Like the UN will issue strongly worded statements. The UN 1:40:05.280 --> 1:40:08.000 will say it's deeply concerned. And I imagine that like 1:40:08.600 --> 1:40:12.640 if you're just like a troop and then you're on 1:40:12.720 --> 1:40:15.240 your unifil. So most of the at least for the Irish, 1:40:15.240 --> 1:40:18.240 most of people there have volunteered to be there. An Ireland, 1:40:18.280 --> 1:40:20.519 it's probably among at least among European country is a 1:40:20.520 --> 1:40:23.360 country that has strongest in its solidarity with Palestine for 1:40:23.439 --> 1:40:26.840 a long time. I'm sure it fucking sucks. I'm sure 1:40:26.880 --> 1:40:29.479 it really blows. Oh yeah, and what the IDEAF has 1:40:29.520 --> 1:40:32.280 done now is advanced past their like forward positions and 1:40:32.560 --> 1:40:34.960 the positions where people are being injured by shelling are 1:40:34.960 --> 1:40:37.479 the headquarters positions, So like if you imagine a triangle 1:40:37.479 --> 1:40:39.320 with a broad base of it at the front, they're 1:40:39.640 --> 1:40:43.960 shelling and sort of fighting around the headquarters positions. I'm 1:40:43.960 --> 1:40:45.760 sure if you've been spending that much of your life 1:40:45.760 --> 1:40:48.160 as a soldier, you know, like and you're watching something 1:40:48.200 --> 1:40:52.000 terrible happen you'd want to fight that. Yeah, you're just 1:40:52.040 --> 1:40:56.160 sitting around Like that doesn't mean that it's bad that 1:40:56.280 --> 1:41:00.679 they're there, No, Yeah, Like any form of accountability will 1:41:00.720 --> 1:41:03.719 make it more accountable than what happened in Gaza, right, Yeah, 1:41:03.800 --> 1:41:05.800 or at least it will make whatever. 1:41:05.439 --> 1:41:08.240 Happens more visible than what happened in Gaza, and. 1:41:08.439 --> 1:41:12.040 It probably legitimately has slowed the Israelis down, Like, yeah, 1:41:12.240 --> 1:41:13.800 this is what would happen if there was nothing there 1:41:13.840 --> 1:41:16.400 and they could just run rough shod, which is you know, 1:41:16.520 --> 1:41:18.000 get like what we've see in Gaza and what we've 1:41:18.000 --> 1:41:18.720 seen in the West Bank. 1:41:18.840 --> 1:41:21.360 Yeah, Like, I mean their strategy in Gaza has been 1:41:22.080 --> 1:41:24.160 first of all, like militarily in air to right, Like 1:41:24.479 --> 1:41:27.320 they've lost control of areas in their rear because aside 1:41:27.320 --> 1:41:29.800 from just killing lots of people and flattening cities, it 1:41:29.840 --> 1:41:32.720 didn't seem to be really doing much in it in 1:41:32.760 --> 1:41:36.320 like an actual sort of targeted manner, and like, yeah, 1:41:36.520 --> 1:41:39.559 just the presence of peacekeepers means that you can't just 1:41:39.640 --> 1:41:42.639 carpet bomb in advance, you know, fireing anything that moves. 1:41:43.000 --> 1:41:45.840 This area between the Latini River and the Blue Line, 1:41:45.840 --> 1:41:49.920 civilians have largely left because there's intense combat going on there. Right, 1:41:50.439 --> 1:41:54.080 there's Balla present there and obviously the IDEF now present 1:41:54.120 --> 1:41:57.599 there and they're fighting, so like people can leave, they've left. 1:41:58.000 --> 1:42:01.280 So having not that civil millions have really slowly is 1:42:01.360 --> 1:42:04.400 raised down in Gaza. It been a Certainian casualties don't 1:42:04.400 --> 1:42:06.880 seem to be something they care about. But yeah, having 1:42:06.880 --> 1:42:10.439 these folks there has stopped them just just carpet bombing 1:42:10.439 --> 1:42:13.160 the area, which is a good thing. Yeah, something that's 1:42:13.200 --> 1:42:17.920 not a good thing. It's our obligation to pivot adverts again, oh, which. 1:42:17.680 --> 1:42:28.200 We will do. All right, we're back. 1:42:29.240 --> 1:42:31.839 Yeah, I guess, like I've seen it from a few people. 1:42:31.960 --> 1:42:35.000 I think it's either the people who discovered like international 1:42:35.600 --> 1:42:39.639 politics a year ago and previously like hadn't really thought 1:42:39.680 --> 1:42:42.120 about it, or from the kind of nativist right the 1:42:42.160 --> 1:42:45.120 idea that like they shouldn't be there, Like I've seen 1:42:45.160 --> 1:42:48.080 it from like some kind of nativist type folks about Ireland, 1:42:48.080 --> 1:42:50.120 like why are the Irish they're risking their lives for 1:42:50.160 --> 1:42:51.160 the for the Lebanese? 1:42:51.200 --> 1:42:52.720 What the fuck the Lebanese embody for them? 1:42:53.200 --> 1:42:56.600 I have such good news for you about who was 1:42:56.640 --> 1:42:57.840 training the IRA. 1:42:57.680 --> 1:42:58.520 In the seventies. 1:43:00.320 --> 1:43:02.040 There are a lot of a lot of guys with 1:43:02.040 --> 1:43:07.240 Irish accents in Becca Valley trading can in the seventies, 1:43:07.600 --> 1:43:10.640 So you know, they really have actually done things for you. 1:43:10.720 --> 1:43:12.000 It's one of the things people do this with like 1:43:12.080 --> 1:43:14.000 the US or there's like one of the Israeli lines 1:43:14.080 --> 1:43:15.880 like ah, what is one of Palestinians ever done for 1:43:15.880 --> 1:43:19.320 black people. It's like, well, like a lot of people 1:43:19.439 --> 1:43:21.040 who got a lot of trading with. 1:43:21.400 --> 1:43:26.439 Yellow in the seventies, like Jenny are for better and 1:43:26.479 --> 1:43:29.040 for worse, because like there's also groups that they trained 1:43:29.080 --> 1:43:32.280 that like they probably shouldn't have like a doubt a 1:43:32.280 --> 1:43:34.679 lot of the groups that became the Fighting Vanguard, which 1:43:34.760 --> 1:43:38.479 was okay, it's I want to scar the Fighting Vanguard. 1:43:38.920 --> 1:43:41.439 The Fighting Vanguard were like a kind of built wing 1:43:41.439 --> 1:43:44.559 of the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria. And like a bunch 1:43:44.600 --> 1:43:47.160 of those Fighting Vanguard guys who survived, so they do 1:43:47.200 --> 1:43:48.840 an uprising and I think it was eighty four, they 1:43:48.920 --> 1:43:51.640 like all get killed. Those people who survived go on 1:43:51.680 --> 1:43:53.160 to be some of the founding members of al Qaida. 1:43:53.439 --> 1:43:56.880 So not not always no great yeah, but you know 1:43:57.400 --> 1:44:01.280 the record like look one out of like twenty of 1:44:01.320 --> 1:44:04.800 the people you trained, going Haywires not great, but like 1:44:04.880 --> 1:44:08.439 you know, it's limited nineteen other ones, like it did 1:44:08.479 --> 1:44:09.000 pretty good. 1:44:09.760 --> 1:44:12.080 Yeah, I think Abdudjulam was in the Becka Valley for 1:44:12.120 --> 1:44:15.120 a while. Yeah. Yeah, lots of cadres of the of 1:44:15.160 --> 1:44:17.000 the PKK. Yeah, the PK was there. 1:44:17.080 --> 1:44:17.240 Yeah. 1:44:17.320 --> 1:44:20.719 Yeah, Kurds died actually, like yeah, there's a good article 1:44:20.720 --> 1:44:22.759 called the Kurds who Died for Palestine I was reading 1:44:22.760 --> 1:44:26.360 recently because often you'll see this like idea that the 1:44:26.439 --> 1:44:28.920 Kurds are like inherently like Zionists, and I don't think 1:44:28.920 --> 1:44:29.280 that's true. 1:44:29.360 --> 1:44:31.360 No, Like yeah, like that they fought at the Eleveties 1:44:31.360 --> 1:44:33.880 Civil War on the side of the Pls, Like yeah, yeah, 1:44:34.040 --> 1:44:35.720 they were in because they were in Beca Valley in 1:44:35.760 --> 1:44:36.920 the Plos trading camps. 1:44:37.040 --> 1:44:39.519 Like yeah, they didn't really have much choice to be back. 1:44:40.160 --> 1:44:41.400 Israel was coming for them. 1:44:41.560 --> 1:44:43.240 Yeah, and like like is Israel is one of the 1:44:43.240 --> 1:44:46.559 coaches that helped kidnap the dula Archelote Like yeah, that's 1:44:46.960 --> 1:44:48.720 really not Presioneds at all. 1:44:49.080 --> 1:44:51.439 No, this is one of those things that you'll see 1:44:51.439 --> 1:44:53.439 from like I didn't have the bot account, so they're 1:44:53.439 --> 1:44:55.960 just people with very unoriginal opinions who like they treat 1:44:56.080 --> 1:44:59.160 kind of Turkish state lines when Israel build settlements in 1:44:59.160 --> 1:45:00.360 a West Bank and guards that they. 1:45:00.280 --> 1:45:01.679 Do it with steel that comes from Turkey. 1:45:01.840 --> 1:45:05.440 Ye, So yeah, maybe treat those claims with some skepticism. 1:45:06.000 --> 1:45:08.360 If there's a gray wolf in bioeticularity. 1:45:08.680 --> 1:45:11.479 Yeah, there is a broader, more serious point there, which 1:45:11.520 --> 1:45:15.960 is that like the actual physical resources that the Israelis 1:45:16.280 --> 1:45:20.760 use to physically build the occupation, right, those all come 1:45:20.800 --> 1:45:22.760 from places and it's not all US, And I think 1:45:22.760 --> 1:45:25.640 people have this image that like, well like and it 1:45:25.720 --> 1:45:27.679 is true the US, it's an unbelievable amount of money 1:45:27.680 --> 1:45:31.800 to Israel, but there's a lot of places where the 1:45:31.920 --> 1:45:34.760 Israelis are getting their ship form, right, like these really 1:45:34.800 --> 1:45:36.400 tech sector in the Israeli tech sector is one of 1:45:36.439 --> 1:45:38.080 the cores of the Israeli economy, and it is one 1:45:38.120 --> 1:45:42.280 of the cores of the Israeli occupation is almost entirely 1:45:42.320 --> 1:45:45.800 fueled by like semiconductors and stuff that they buy from China. Right, 1:45:45.960 --> 1:45:49.360 that's where all the physical technical infrastructure of this stuff 1:45:49.360 --> 1:45:51.320 comes from. I talked about it before about like Russian 1:45:51.360 --> 1:45:55.040 natural gas, Right, all of these countries, who will you know, 1:45:55.160 --> 1:45:58.479 talk all of this shit like and the un about Israel, 1:45:59.120 --> 1:46:03.559 like people's real political stances and what they're willing to 1:46:03.600 --> 1:46:05.519 send it to your really to the Israelis are not 1:46:05.640 --> 1:46:07.720 the same thing at all. And if you want to 1:46:07.760 --> 1:46:10.720 actually gauge how the occupation functions, it's because a lot 1:46:10.760 --> 1:46:14.040 of countries that nominally will be like, oh, we oppose 1:46:14.080 --> 1:46:16.120 it's really occupation. Well, didn't just send them all the 1:46:16.120 --> 1:46:18.560 fucking resources that they need to do the occupation. 1:46:19.400 --> 1:46:21.280 Yeah, and they don't get any heat unless it's like 1:46:21.520 --> 1:46:23.480 literal bombs bullets. 1:46:23.080 --> 1:46:26.320 Right, yeah, and even and even then, like lots of 1:46:26.400 --> 1:46:30.760 people like yeah, there's plenty of non us. I mean, 1:46:30.800 --> 1:46:32.200 the ukata's a lot of this too, right. 1:46:32.280 --> 1:46:32.880 Yeah. 1:46:32.920 --> 1:46:35.000 One of the things that IDF likes to do they 1:46:35.000 --> 1:46:38.679 haven't mentioned yet, it's mock air assaults of unifual positions, 1:46:38.960 --> 1:46:41.879 is christ Well, they'll fly in like a bombing formation 1:46:42.720 --> 1:46:45.960 just basically, I guess hayes them. I can't really think 1:46:46.000 --> 1:46:48.760 of a way to describe it, right, they's terror like 1:46:48.800 --> 1:46:53.040 it's a terror campaign. Yes, it's a very clear indication that, 1:46:53.160 --> 1:46:56.160 like any day, we could wipe you off the map. Right, 1:46:56.560 --> 1:46:59.599 And some of the uniform assets seem to have anti 1:46:59.640 --> 1:47:02.679 aircraft some of them don't, but even still like they 1:47:02.880 --> 1:47:04.840 you know, a determined attack by the idea of they've 1:47:04.880 --> 1:47:07.920 been in big trouble of course. So right now, I 1:47:07.920 --> 1:47:10.960 guess the situation we're in, according to the person who 1:47:11.000 --> 1:47:14.879 spoke to is that these positions Israel has advanced passed, 1:47:14.880 --> 1:47:17.960 like the peacekeepers there are still in their positions, right 1:47:18.600 --> 1:47:22.320 they have using their own funds, which I presume means 1:47:22.360 --> 1:47:24.559 like funds from the states of which they are part, 1:47:25.280 --> 1:47:28.120 fortified their positions and improve their positions like. 1:47:28.160 --> 1:47:29.960 With their own Jesus Christ. 1:47:30.320 --> 1:47:34.559 Ye, Well, the UN is supposed to provide positions for them. 1:47:34.600 --> 1:47:37.240 It's supposed to provide their rations, and it's supposed to 1:47:37.240 --> 1:47:40.960 provide weapons and vehicles for some other states that like 1:47:41.080 --> 1:47:43.719 kind of aren't up to I guess a modern standard. 1:47:44.120 --> 1:47:47.240 That's incidentally why you don't see it so much here, 1:47:47.479 --> 1:47:49.280 But in other parts of the world you often see 1:47:49.320 --> 1:47:53.200 troops on peacekeeping missions who like perhaps you haven't heard 1:47:53.240 --> 1:47:55.639 of that country's military before, right, Like, it's very common 1:47:55.680 --> 1:47:57.680 for like. Also, I think it is better that there 1:47:57.720 --> 1:48:00.599 are African peacekeepers in Africa than like white European peace 1:48:00.760 --> 1:48:03.640 like I think for historical and very obvious reasons. 1:48:04.000 --> 1:48:05.880 I will mention one of the places that sends a 1:48:05.880 --> 1:48:07.960 lot of piece of replay to places in nepoll And 1:48:08.240 --> 1:48:11.000 the record that police peacekeepers that are get are being 1:48:11.040 --> 1:48:12.720 set by booist governments. 1:48:12.479 --> 1:48:18.920 Are yeah good, not great. Yeah, you can google that. 1:48:19.160 --> 1:48:23.280 We've talked about this in Brazil at length, like sorry, 1:48:23.120 --> 1:48:26.479 Brazilian Nepolice cooperation in Haiti's shit show. 1:48:26.960 --> 1:48:29.200 Yeah, no, it has not been good for the Haitian people. 1:48:29.680 --> 1:48:31.920 I will say, like one of the things that happens 1:48:31.920 --> 1:48:34.280 a lot is the UN pays them a certain rate 1:48:34.360 --> 1:48:36.680 for peacekeeping I guess or UN conversate certain right, which 1:48:36.680 --> 1:48:38.920 is often a lot more than those militaries pay their soldiers. 1:48:38.960 --> 1:48:41.400 So it's like a source of income for the military 1:48:41.520 --> 1:48:43.120 view see what I mean, They can like skim off 1:48:43.160 --> 1:48:46.920 the percentage. But these guys have at their own expense, 1:48:46.960 --> 1:48:51.320 fortify their positions at their own expense, supplied themselves with 1:48:51.520 --> 1:48:53.559 rations so that they've they've bought a ton of food 1:48:53.560 --> 1:48:56.880 and water. It's what that means in like non nerdy terms. 1:48:57.160 --> 1:48:59.960 So they're pretty well stocked up, right, Like they're bunked up. 1:49:00.040 --> 1:49:02.799 Yeah, But it's also it's also like this US operation 1:49:02.960 --> 1:49:05.200 is being equipped in the same way that like American 1:49:05.280 --> 1:49:07.600 school teachers make sure their classrooms have pencils. 1:49:08.320 --> 1:49:09.160 That's a perfection. 1:49:09.840 --> 1:49:14.600 What the fuck is going on here? Yeah, Jesus Christ. 1:49:14.600 --> 1:49:17.160 Maybe maybe the state not the best way of organizing 1:49:17.200 --> 1:49:19.120 human society, is what people are saying. 1:49:19.240 --> 1:49:21.800 Look, we need to fuse the two and finally bring 1:49:21.840 --> 1:49:24.879 about my lifelong dream of armed teachers union pickets. 1:49:26.439 --> 1:49:28.599 Yeah, bring it back to like Blair Mountain, but for teachers. 1:49:28.680 --> 1:49:33.479 Yeah, Look, don't armed teachers armed teachers unions. Yeah, we 1:49:33.520 --> 1:49:39.400 can finally get bipartisan agreement on Yeah, they're pretty well 1:49:39.400 --> 1:49:42.800 hold up, like like American preppers dream of themselves being 1:49:42.880 --> 1:49:46.840 right surrounded by ammunition and marise, but at some point 1:49:46.880 --> 1:49:48.960 they're going to run out of food and water, and 1:49:49.000 --> 1:49:51.240 at some point that means that they're going to have 1:49:51.280 --> 1:49:55.760 to resupply. Right now on I'm just going to check 1:49:55.760 --> 1:49:58.320 the date very quickly, And UNIFIL is on Twitter by 1:49:58.320 --> 1:50:00.320 the way, if you want to do you want to 1:50:00.360 --> 1:50:01.960 follow them there they kind of give a daily update 1:50:02.000 --> 1:50:06.639 on what's going on. On the thirteenth of October, UNIFIL 1:50:06.840 --> 1:50:10.040 said that the IDF sold just stopped a critical uniform 1:50:10.040 --> 1:50:12.640 logistical movement, which could well be like an attempt to 1:50:12.720 --> 1:50:16.120 resupply of one of these places. Right, at some point 1:50:16.640 --> 1:50:18.720 they're going to have to resupply them, either by air 1:50:19.080 --> 1:50:21.920 or by land. And I think that is when we 1:50:22.000 --> 1:50:26.920 will most likely see like exactly how hard the IDF 1:50:26.960 --> 1:50:29.400 wants to go against like in this case trucks full 1:50:29.400 --> 1:50:33.280 of MRIs right, Like, yeah, previously they've got in standoffs, 1:50:33.320 --> 1:50:36.040 like a few years ago the French. The French have 1:50:36.160 --> 1:50:38.360 done some interesting stuff as part of the UNIFILM mission, 1:50:38.560 --> 1:50:40.320 Like in twenty ten they kind of went on a 1:50:40.400 --> 1:50:44.479 unilateral operation without approval to look for her body. Yeah, 1:50:44.760 --> 1:50:45.519 not a great move. 1:50:46.040 --> 1:50:47.320 Yeah, it's wild. 1:50:47.439 --> 1:50:49.559 French forces at level not such an interesting thing because 1:50:49.560 --> 1:50:52.479 it's like you have inside of the French soul is 1:50:52.600 --> 1:50:54.680 warring at all times, two forces. 1:50:54.760 --> 1:50:58.840 It is it Receisy said, it's. 1:50:57.880 --> 1:51:01.000 Like they because they hate Buzzled so much, but they 1:51:01.000 --> 1:51:02.559 are also so anti Semitic. 1:51:03.520 --> 1:51:07.000 This is an all times waring French. 1:51:07.120 --> 1:51:09.240 The nature of the French soul, the two wolves that 1:51:09.240 --> 1:51:12.920 live inside the French person. Yeah, well, in twenty ten, 1:51:12.960 --> 1:51:17.479 they were their Islamophobia was winning. They specifically they used 1:51:17.520 --> 1:51:21.680 sniffer dogs in people's homes, which Jesus is very disrespectful 1:51:21.720 --> 1:51:23.400 in culture in that part of the world. 1:51:23.760 --> 1:51:25.680 I mean also here I would be really pissed off 1:51:25.680 --> 1:51:29.400 if fucking a bomb squad like getting started running sniffer 1:51:29.479 --> 1:51:32.679 dogs around my apartment for sure, get out going through 1:51:32.680 --> 1:51:34.679 private property and doing things that they were They're supposed 1:51:34.680 --> 1:51:36.840 to operate with the Lebanese armed Forces, right, so they 1:51:36.920 --> 1:51:40.240 patrol alongside them. But in this case, the French decided 1:51:40.240 --> 1:51:42.719 they were just going to send it solo and obviously 1:51:43.080 --> 1:51:45.639 pissed a lot of people off. And it's really interesting 1:51:45.680 --> 1:51:49.160 to see people address their concerns. But was not interesting, 1:51:49.200 --> 1:51:51.519 I guess, but people address their concerns specifically with the 1:51:51.560 --> 1:51:54.200 French element of uniform rather than other elements of uniform, 1:51:54.320 --> 1:51:56.879 like for instance, Indonesia and seem to be pretty popular. 1:51:57.200 --> 1:52:01.240 The Indian element of unifil teaches weekly yoga classes, which 1:52:01.280 --> 1:52:03.080 are apparently becoming more and more popular. 1:52:04.120 --> 1:52:05.320 I've seen a bunch of videos. 1:52:05.479 --> 1:52:08.479 There's like like tiktoks of libertyes people in that area 1:52:08.600 --> 1:52:10.320 who speak English, and they all speak English with a 1:52:10.320 --> 1:52:10.920 Maris accent. 1:52:10.960 --> 1:52:13.280 Oh yeah, because so long it's great. 1:52:13.080 --> 1:52:16.800 Yeah yeah, yeah, Well the Irish have been there since seventies, right, 1:52:16.920 --> 1:52:19.800 Like I know of people who have two generations of 1:52:19.800 --> 1:52:20.599 their family who. 1:52:20.520 --> 1:52:21.719 Have been peacekeepers there. 1:52:21.800 --> 1:52:24.760 Yeah, I think for those people like it probably like 1:52:24.800 --> 1:52:26.720 over time being down, I'm sure they do develop a 1:52:26.760 --> 1:52:29.559 personal connection to the people who you know that they're 1:52:29.600 --> 1:52:32.360 around and the people whose communities they are protecting, and 1:52:32.360 --> 1:52:35.640 and like, I genuinely feel like it's probably really a 1:52:35.680 --> 1:52:36.880 shitty situation to be in. 1:52:37.080 --> 1:52:38.920 Yeah, being sort of locked in your base. 1:52:39.160 --> 1:52:40.800 That doesn't mean they should leave, right, I just want 1:52:40.800 --> 1:52:42.200 to end with like, and I know we want to 1:52:42.200 --> 1:52:45.280 talk about the Gourden Heights to twenty thirteen. Actually Austria 1:52:45.320 --> 1:52:47.080 pulled out of the Gourden Heights and Ireland had to 1:52:47.080 --> 1:52:48.760 deploy a bunch of people really quickly to. 1:52:48.800 --> 1:52:49.800 Kind of cover that area. 1:52:49.880 --> 1:52:54.320 But if we look at like streperlinka right where the 1:52:54.439 --> 1:52:57.599 UN could have prevented a genocide and did not. Yeah, 1:52:57.680 --> 1:53:03.040 the UN forces there withdrew, they surrendered and places were 1:53:03.080 --> 1:53:07.320 captured by the Serbs and then used as collateral to 1:53:07.400 --> 1:53:10.000 stop the UN doing anymore to prevent what and like 1:53:10.800 --> 1:53:14.719 some of the most horrific acts in human history happened. 1:53:14.760 --> 1:53:19.040 It's from Benika, right, just just disgusting, terrible stuff, and 1:53:19.200 --> 1:53:22.800 like hopefully the UN has learned from that hopefully, like 1:53:22.880 --> 1:53:25.679 individual nations. I think like in that case, it wasn't 1:53:25.720 --> 1:53:27.320 so much the UN as a whole. It's like the 1:53:27.840 --> 1:53:30.120 specific chain of command of those peacekeepers. 1:53:30.160 --> 1:53:30.719 I think they were. 1:53:30.680 --> 1:53:32.760 Dutch well, And like it's it's worth noting in that 1:53:32.800 --> 1:53:34.400 point too that like part of what's going on there 1:53:34.479 --> 1:53:38.280 is that like a lot of the European countries until 1:53:38.479 --> 1:53:42.160 well into the genocide were basically pro served because they 1:53:42.200 --> 1:53:44.280 saw the Serbs something that could like just cleanse the 1:53:44.360 --> 1:53:45.280 Muslims from Europe. 1:53:45.400 --> 1:53:48.240 Is like this is the explicit language that they're using, right. 1:53:48.520 --> 1:53:50.439 Yeah, And this is this has always been a problem 1:53:50.439 --> 1:53:53.320 with with UN missions, is like well half the time 1:53:53.360 --> 1:53:55.479 we try to stop a genocide, there's like some faction 1:53:55.560 --> 1:53:57.599 of the UN that's like no, this one fucking rips 1:53:58.040 --> 1:53:58.799 and yeah. 1:53:58.680 --> 1:54:00.400 Yeah, right, this is the end. But they the bad 1:54:00.439 --> 1:54:01.320 guys though, aren't they. 1:54:01.680 --> 1:54:03.799 I think it's good that they have like Muslim countries 1:54:03.840 --> 1:54:07.320 within their yeah, their group, And like I think it's 1:54:07.320 --> 1:54:09.280 probably good that the Irish of their in large numbers 1:54:09.280 --> 1:54:12.120 because as a country they have been better on on 1:54:12.200 --> 1:54:14.200 Palestine than almost anyone else in Europe. 1:54:14.320 --> 1:54:15.719 Yeah, it turns out being a quality. 1:54:17.320 --> 1:54:20.800 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, like yeah, that's on 1:54:20.960 --> 1:54:22.360 that's on us as the British. 1:54:22.520 --> 1:54:24.479 But it's better that they're there, I guess. 1:54:24.560 --> 1:54:24.760 Yeah. 1:54:24.920 --> 1:54:26.840 And like no one talked about them for the past 1:54:26.840 --> 1:54:28.920 ten fucking years, but like the most important time for 1:54:28.920 --> 1:54:30.720 them to be there is right now. Yeah, and like 1:54:30.880 --> 1:54:33.120 even if they're not fighting, I think they serve a 1:54:33.240 --> 1:54:37.760 useful role in like it's the only accountability mechanism. 1:54:37.840 --> 1:54:40.920 Yeah that Israel can't just destroy. There are definitely people 1:54:40.920 --> 1:54:42.800 who are alive right now who would not be if 1:54:42.880 --> 1:54:44.040 if Irish were not there. 1:54:44.120 --> 1:54:46.160 Yeah, and like I know, we have these number of 1:54:46.200 --> 1:54:48.680 virus diistions. Like I know, it sucks it's your family 1:54:48.760 --> 1:54:51.880 member who's stuck there, like and like it feels like 1:54:51.920 --> 1:54:53.600 they're not able to do anything and they're just stuck 1:54:53.640 --> 1:54:55.800 there as like collateral as a bargaining chip. 1:54:55.800 --> 1:54:57.480 I don't know, but like, yeah, I. 1:54:57.440 --> 1:55:00.840 Think overseas military deployments by European countries go. It's one 1:55:00.840 --> 1:55:03.080 of the more defensible ones. You know, it's one of 1:55:03.120 --> 1:55:06.840 the ones that has stopped civilian lives being harmed. H 1:55:07.320 --> 1:55:10.720 And yeah, I think like the idea that they should leave, 1:55:10.760 --> 1:55:12.280 which I've seen people trotting. 1:55:11.920 --> 1:55:12.360 Out like that. 1:55:12.720 --> 1:55:16.080 No, they shouldn't like when they leave. It's just like 1:55:16.160 --> 1:55:19.480 Gaza all over again. It's just Israel copet boling civilians 1:55:19.680 --> 1:55:22.960 and talking of copy boying civilians. I guess made you 1:55:22.960 --> 1:55:25.440 want to talk about like Israel has decided to invade 1:55:25.440 --> 1:55:26.160 another country. 1:55:26.600 --> 1:55:27.200 So okay. 1:55:27.240 --> 1:55:28.960 So one of the things that's happened, and this has 1:55:29.000 --> 1:55:32.920 gotten almost no attention, I think because because the Syrian 1:55:32.960 --> 1:55:35.040 government does not want to admit that this is happening, 1:55:35.040 --> 1:55:36.600 and they're not doing anything about it because they don't 1:55:36.600 --> 1:55:37.000 give a shit. 1:55:37.200 --> 1:55:37.440 Yeah. 1:55:37.520 --> 1:55:41.320 So Israel has been occupying the Syrian goal On Heights 1:55:41.360 --> 1:55:45.320 since nineteen sixty seven. Yeah, they've militarized it. They've just 1:55:45.320 --> 1:55:48.280 been holding the territory for I shouldn't have tried to 1:55:48.320 --> 1:55:48.880 do math and a. 1:55:48.840 --> 1:55:53.600 Fly like over half a century, sixty years. Yeah. 1:55:54.120 --> 1:55:56.000 And one of the things that's been happening recently is 1:55:56.080 --> 1:55:58.400 there had been there had been like oh I say, 1:55:58.400 --> 1:56:02.440 describe as like a Russian nituring force sort of on 1:56:02.440 --> 1:56:04.400 on the border of the sheer knock about goal On 1:56:04.440 --> 1:56:07.720 Heights and the sort of like southern provinces is Asyria. Yeah, 1:56:07.760 --> 1:56:11.760 and the Israelis seem to have just apparently they've done 1:56:11.800 --> 1:56:13.440 they've done this before where they'll just like go in 1:56:13.480 --> 1:56:14.879 and buldoze a bunch of farmland. 1:56:15.040 --> 1:56:17.200 Yeah. I think this is on the video species of. 1:56:17.200 --> 1:56:20.840 D mining, right, Yeah, sort of. Yeah, I mean it's 1:56:20.880 --> 1:56:23.360 it's always been. It's always been pretty clearly like a 1:56:23.440 --> 1:56:25.080 land grab kind of thing. 1:56:25.240 --> 1:56:25.480 Yeah. 1:56:25.480 --> 1:56:28.200 But normally what happens is they go in, they buildoze 1:56:28.200 --> 1:56:29.480 a bunch of places, and they pull out. 1:56:29.560 --> 1:56:30.400 Yeah. 1:56:30.200 --> 1:56:33.120 So somehow they have surpassed Turkey as the number one 1:56:33.160 --> 1:56:37.480 bulldozer of olive fields, which is sort of staggering, like 1:56:37.560 --> 1:56:40.040 they they love that ship. Yeah, but this time they've 1:56:40.120 --> 1:56:44.000 set up seems like a road project. Although given everything 1:56:44.040 --> 1:56:48.280 that we've been seeing about the sort of like rise 1:56:48.600 --> 1:56:51.120 of the concept of greater Israel where they just start 1:56:51.160 --> 1:56:56.000 invading everyone and radially outwards from Israel extremely longing, they've 1:56:56.000 --> 1:56:58.320 they've buildozed these places. But now and they're but they've 1:56:58.320 --> 1:57:01.000 set it up like barred wire like down the new territory, 1:57:01.040 --> 1:57:03.360 which seems like they're just actually a time we can 1:57:03.440 --> 1:57:09.480 do annexation. Yeah, and that's really alarming because I mean, 1:57:09.600 --> 1:57:13.160 like the Syrian government isn't going to do shit about this, right, 1:57:13.520 --> 1:57:17.920 like you know, Israel has bombed Syria a few times already. 1:57:18.320 --> 1:57:21.040 Oh yeah, they pumped Syria last time. I was saying, the. 1:57:20.800 --> 1:57:23.000 Syrian gum doesn't give a shit, right, They're they're too busy, 1:57:23.320 --> 1:57:26.360 like like they have courage to kill, Like they don't 1:57:26.400 --> 1:57:28.280 have time to be dealing with fucking Israel here. 1:57:28.760 --> 1:57:28.960 Yeah. 1:57:29.040 --> 1:57:32.200 Yeah, but there's been an explicit is really pushed like 1:57:32.320 --> 1:57:34.760 even further out from the goal on heights, and I 1:57:34.760 --> 1:57:37.560 think we're just going to see this intensify as as 1:57:37.640 --> 1:57:42.200 the most sort of like drained settler factions in Israeli 1:57:42.240 --> 1:57:44.880 politics gain more and more power and the sort of 1:57:44.960 --> 1:57:48.839 like frankly like very American, we must push our borders, 1:57:48.840 --> 1:57:50.960 we must like push into new frontiers and sees more 1:57:51.040 --> 1:57:53.960 land like cycle sort of perpetuates itself. 1:57:54.080 --> 1:57:55.879 Yeah, and a lot of the people doing the settling 1:57:55.920 --> 1:57:58.680 have literally come from America to do the settling. Yeah, 1:57:59.000 --> 1:58:02.680 pushing out in the Golan it's bad, Like yeah, I 1:58:02.720 --> 1:58:05.400 know it's Reel claims it was attacked by Katiba's Bulla 1:58:05.720 --> 1:58:08.120 in the Golan Heights at last week, and katipaz Bula 1:58:08.160 --> 1:58:10.920 has denied that they glean it. Israel fabricated it. Nie 1:58:10.960 --> 1:58:12.800 of those people are people I particularly trust. 1:58:13.120 --> 1:58:13.400 Yeah. 1:58:13.480 --> 1:58:14.840 Well, and this is also one of these funny ones 1:58:14.840 --> 1:58:19.320 where it's like the Israelis are denying that they've done this, 1:58:19.520 --> 1:58:23.080 I think, and the Syrian government is also denying that 1:58:23.120 --> 1:58:25.760 they've done this, but like everyone who's there is like, well, 1:58:26.080 --> 1:58:30.640 obviously they did this, Like yeah, and like, I don't 1:58:30.640 --> 1:58:32.160 know why it's real keeps for wanting to open up 1:58:32.200 --> 1:58:34.360 your fronts. I mean they yeah, like you said, it's 1:58:34.360 --> 1:58:37.960 set like Colone list logic, I guess. But I do 1:58:38.080 --> 1:58:41.919 think that like the continuation of this like full scale 1:58:42.040 --> 1:58:44.800 war generates consent for the government as it exists in 1:58:44.840 --> 1:58:47.280 the moment that it stops, and that the government's legis 1:58:47.360 --> 1:58:51.040 will collapse there. Yeah, but yeah, pushing into Syria opens 1:58:51.120 --> 1:58:57.520 up a whole other world of shit, shit, yeah, the 1:58:57.600 --> 1:59:02.040 worst stuff. Yeah, there's a nation on earth who really 1:59:02.080 --> 1:59:03.920 doesn't need anyone else trying to fucking And it's not 1:59:03.920 --> 1:59:05.720 that Israel has not been killing Syrians for a long 1:59:05.800 --> 1:59:08.840 time as well, has been lobbing munitions into Syria for 1:59:08.880 --> 1:59:10.800 a long time, and it's increased. 1:59:10.320 --> 1:59:11.080 In the last year. 1:59:11.280 --> 1:59:13.520 Yeah, Like, yeah, you know, I was in Syria on 1:59:13.600 --> 1:59:18.120 October seventh last year and pretty much. Sooner as it's 1:59:18.360 --> 1:59:21.120 began responding to that attack, it began responding in Syria 1:59:21.160 --> 1:59:23.600 as well, but a ground operation is a whole different thing. 1:59:24.040 --> 1:59:27.600 There ain't no UN peacekeepers in Syria, and yeah, that 1:59:27.840 --> 1:59:28.680 could be very bad. 1:59:28.760 --> 1:59:31.920 So yeah, so we'll keep you updated on that story 1:59:32.000 --> 1:59:36.720 as it presumably continues to get worse, because yeah, everything 1:59:36.760 --> 1:59:39.600 seems to and like, I mean, I will say, Okay, 1:59:39.680 --> 1:59:44.040 so today Biden made a thing that said, if Israel 1:59:44.480 --> 1:59:47.240 hasn't resolved to the meditarian situation in thirty days, he's 1:59:47.280 --> 1:59:48.480 getting cut off aid. 1:59:49.080 --> 1:59:51.480 But like that's not going to happen. 1:59:51.960 --> 1:59:57.160 Like it's simply not like everyone says that all the time. 1:59:57.400 --> 1:59:59.880 I mean, how many lines have they stepped over? 2:00:00.120 --> 2:00:00.240 Right? 2:00:00.320 --> 2:00:04.280 Like how many An American red line is a line 2:00:04.320 --> 2:00:05.920 that when you step over and nothing happens. 2:00:06.360 --> 2:00:08.840 Yeah, that's that's that's just that's just how it works, right, 2:00:08.880 --> 2:00:11.600 like it works in Syria. It has been multiple times. 2:00:11.680 --> 2:00:13.880 Yeah, I mean there's there's there's this old Russian joke 2:00:14.000 --> 2:00:18.080 about China's Final Warning where because like if throughout the 2:00:18.200 --> 2:00:20.520 entire seventies, when like there's all this boarders's going on, 2:00:20.560 --> 2:00:23.360 and even like the sixties and in the fifties sixties, 2:00:23.560 --> 2:00:25.920 like Chinese officials feel like this is China's final warning, 2:00:26.000 --> 2:00:28.280 Russia must stop and nothing would happen like this. This 2:00:28.360 --> 2:00:31.400 is where we're at with like the Democrats and being like, ah, 2:00:31.520 --> 2:00:34.120 Israel must stop doing whatever the fuck's no, they're not 2:00:34.160 --> 2:00:35.880 going to do anything, like they don't give a ship. 2:00:35.960 --> 2:00:39.480 Yeah, no, we've cried wolf so many times. It's clearly 2:00:39.520 --> 2:00:42.360 not an issue that Harris feels like it's going to 2:00:42.360 --> 2:00:45.920 lose her the election. Yeah, and then whoever wins, we 2:00:46.040 --> 2:00:49.200 got four more years of turning a fire hose of 2:00:49.240 --> 2:00:52.360 money and weapons on children in Palestine and apparently Syria 2:00:52.400 --> 2:00:55.800 and Lebanon as well. So yeah, it's great, It's all great. 2:00:58.440 --> 2:01:00.800 I'm afraid. Yeah, this this has not been a good 2:01:00.800 --> 2:01:03.160 news episode. I hope people who have family I have 2:01:03.200 --> 2:01:05.320 friends who are in Lebanon, like, I hope people who 2:01:05.360 --> 2:01:06.160 have family there were doing. 2:01:06.200 --> 2:01:28.600 Okay, I know it sucks, Hello. 2:01:28.400 --> 2:01:31.720 And welcome to It could happen here. I'm here with Mia. 2:01:32.120 --> 2:01:32.680 How you doing. 2:01:33.800 --> 2:01:37.360 It's abominably early, which not even podcasts early. It's like 2:01:37.440 --> 2:01:41.280 eight am here, so it's gonna be where we're We've 2:01:41.280 --> 2:01:42.160 done the caffeine. 2:01:42.920 --> 2:01:45.400 We're holding on for dear life sake. 2:01:47.360 --> 2:01:48.800 I feel you. I feel you. 2:01:49.480 --> 2:01:52.680 I have to ask, have you noticed that the continents 2:01:52.760 --> 2:01:54.160 are dripping a little bit? 2:01:54.640 --> 2:01:56.000 Continents are dripping? 2:01:56.360 --> 2:01:58.680 Yeah? Yeah, And I don't mean like blin out. 2:01:58.800 --> 2:02:00.320 I mean like if you take a look kind of 2:02:00.400 --> 2:02:03.240 map and you assume that North is up and South 2:02:03.360 --> 2:02:05.480 is down, it find it kind of looks like our 2:02:05.640 --> 2:02:08.560 major landmass is melting a little bit. 2:02:08.840 --> 2:02:12.080 Oh you know, Okay, now that you say it, I 2:02:12.120 --> 2:02:13.080 can kind of see it. 2:02:13.520 --> 2:02:14.640 H Yeah. 2:02:15.000 --> 2:02:17.760 This is a concept known as continental trip. And I'm 2:02:17.800 --> 2:02:22.200 not tripping on anything. I'm not the first person to notice. 2:02:22.520 --> 2:02:23.200 Incredible. 2:02:23.720 --> 2:02:24.400 You can look it up. 2:02:24.440 --> 2:02:26.680 There's a whole Wikipedia page of what's seen in everything, 2:02:27.000 --> 2:02:30.280 and well, South America is alongside India. They're kind of 2:02:30.280 --> 2:02:34.520 seen as the quintessential examples with this continental trip. And 2:02:34.560 --> 2:02:37.640 this is a very odd way that I've decided to 2:02:37.720 --> 2:02:42.320 segue into the next nation in our exploration of Latin 2:02:42.360 --> 2:02:45.840 America and anarchist history. It's right to the east of 2:02:45.920 --> 2:02:49.520 Chile and south of every other country near Temisphale. 2:02:50.400 --> 2:02:53.160 That is, of course, the Argentine. 2:02:52.640 --> 2:02:57.240 Republic, more commonly known as Argentina, which is derived by 2:02:57.280 --> 2:03:00.960 the way from the Latin word for silver. My name 2:03:01.000 --> 2:03:03.320 is Andrew Sage. You can find me on YouTube as 2:03:03.440 --> 2:03:07.160 Andrewism And thanks to the scholarship of Chuck Moss, Jeffrey 2:03:07.240 --> 2:03:10.920 la Focad, and Ahille Capileetti, we're going to take a 2:03:10.960 --> 2:03:14.720 journey into the history of anarchism in Argentina. 2:03:15.240 --> 2:03:18.680 Also got to do the shout out for Calculates Anarchism 2:03:18.720 --> 2:03:22.240 in Latin Erica. Great book, also great cover, got a 2:03:22.240 --> 2:03:23.080 big bird on it. 2:03:23.320 --> 2:03:23.920 Good stuff. 2:03:24.120 --> 2:03:26.720 Oh yeah, shout out of course, of course. So I 2:03:26.720 --> 2:03:28.800 suppose the best place to start us in the beginning. 2:03:29.720 --> 2:03:31.800 So there's this thing called the Big Bang, right. 2:03:34.400 --> 2:03:43.720 Universe expanded extremely fast like Pico second. 2:03:42.080 --> 2:03:43.360 Large expansion of matter. 2:03:43.480 --> 2:03:49.760 And yeah, but seriously, Argentina has been peopled since the 2:03:49.880 --> 2:03:54.920 Paleolithic period. In particular, we find evidence of ancient people's 2:03:55.120 --> 2:03:58.760 butchering the meat of an armadillo relative as early as 2:03:58.800 --> 2:04:02.240 twenty one third years ago geese. 2:04:02.480 --> 2:04:04.320 So you know, we've been around. 2:04:04.360 --> 2:04:06.640 We've been around from then on as far as we 2:04:06.720 --> 2:04:08.960 can tell for now, at least, because you know, the 2:04:09.000 --> 2:04:13.400 timelines are constantly getting updated with new information, as it 2:04:13.440 --> 2:04:17.120 should be. The area to be known as Argentina was 2:04:17.560 --> 2:04:21.400 pretty sparsely populated by a variety of divus cultures with 2:04:21.520 --> 2:04:27.200 diverse social organizations including forgers and farmers. To take a 2:04:27.200 --> 2:04:31.840 long and largely unknown history of indigenous co existence and conflicts. Short, 2:04:32.360 --> 2:04:35.160 people continue to live and the earth continue to spin 2:04:35.560 --> 2:04:38.120 for the next few millennia until a few ships on 2:04:38.160 --> 2:04:41.880 the horizon spell doom for all to see. These are, 2:04:41.920 --> 2:04:45.120 of course, the Europeans who first arrived in the region 2:04:45.320 --> 2:04:49.040 with the fifteen oh two voyage of Amerigo Vespucci, with 2:04:49.120 --> 2:04:52.640 the Spanish navigators Juan Dias de Solis and Sebastian Cabo 2:04:52.720 --> 2:04:56.160 in particular visiting the territory in fifteen sixteen and fifteen 2:04:56.160 --> 2:05:01.120 twenty six, respectively. Then in fifteen thirty six Pedro de 2:05:01.240 --> 2:05:03.720 Mendoza founded this small settlement. 2:05:03.280 --> 2:05:04.680 Of Buenos Aires. 2:05:05.040 --> 2:05:08.000 Maybe you've heard of it, but it was a band 2:05:08.000 --> 2:05:11.400 that in fifteen forty one thanks to continuous indigenous resistance, 2:05:11.880 --> 2:05:15.800 and had to be refounded in fifteen eighty. As for 2:05:15.840 --> 2:05:19.160 the rest of would be Argentina, the Spanish Empire that 2:05:19.360 --> 2:05:22.320 was running most of the continant was busy lutin the 2:05:22.360 --> 2:05:26.160 silver and gold mines in Bolivia and Peru, so Argentina 2:05:26.280 --> 2:05:28.120 was kind of seen as a backwater. 2:05:28.240 --> 2:05:29.480 It wasn't as much of an interest. 2:05:29.480 --> 2:05:34.400 By comparison, Argentina stayed under the Viceroyalty of Peru and 2:05:34.520 --> 2:05:36.880 to the creation of the Viceroyalty of the Rio de 2:05:36.960 --> 2:05:40.560 la Plata in seventeen seventy six, with Buenos Aires as 2:05:40.600 --> 2:05:44.960 its capital after two failed the British invasions in eighteen 2:05:44.960 --> 2:05:47.520 oh six and eighteen o seven, and as you could see, 2:05:47.560 --> 2:05:49.360 the British and Argentina have. 2:05:49.360 --> 2:05:51.640 Had a bit of a scuffle for some time now. 2:05:52.640 --> 2:05:56.200 The Buenos Aires capital would be the stage of revolution, 2:05:57.080 --> 2:06:00.240 as the eighteen ten May Revolution replaced the Vice roy 2:06:00.280 --> 2:06:04.600 Baltasar Hidel Gorya Cesnios with the First Junta, a new 2:06:04.600 --> 2:06:08.520 government made by and for the locals, and then there 2:06:08.560 --> 2:06:12.240 was a royalist counter revolution, some anti colonial alliance with 2:06:12.280 --> 2:06:16.640 the then Spanish Philippines, divisions between centralists and federalists over 2:06:16.640 --> 2:06:20.640 the newly forming Argentine state, proposals to crown a supper 2:06:20.840 --> 2:06:25.000 Inca as a monarch of an independent Argentina, and the 2:06:25.000 --> 2:06:27.680 official declaration of independence for a republic on the ninth 2:06:27.720 --> 2:06:30.840 of July eighteen sixteen. Just to go back a bit 2:06:31.080 --> 2:06:34.800 to be clear, there is an alternate history scenario in 2:06:34.840 --> 2:06:41.200 which Argentina was briefly or continuously under an InCor monarchy 2:06:41.520 --> 2:06:45.960 that would have ripped literally. I believe it was a 2:06:45.960 --> 2:06:49.600 cousin of Tupa Kamaru. The third incredible was being considered 2:06:49.640 --> 2:06:53.840 for the position incredible, incredible, incredible. Indeed, see, people tend 2:06:53.920 --> 2:06:57.480 to see South America as just like you know, it's 2:06:57.520 --> 2:06:59.640 just the extra continent. I mean, I don't think people 2:06:59.680 --> 2:07:02.600 think about how much has gone on down there, or 2:07:02.640 --> 2:07:07.120 rather it's not really present in the English speaking world's imagination. 2:07:07.600 --> 2:07:07.760 You know. 2:07:07.800 --> 2:07:10.840 We tend to focus on more of the Northern hemisphere 2:07:10.880 --> 2:07:13.120 side of things, which have a specific region we find 2:07:13.120 --> 2:07:16.320 ourselves in, whether it be the Caribbean or Australia and 2:07:16.320 --> 2:07:20.520 New Zealand, UK US Canada. We tend to think about 2:07:20.520 --> 2:07:25.400 English speaking colonial history. But Latin America had a lot 2:07:25.840 --> 2:07:28.800 going on in its time. I mean, come on, they 2:07:28.800 --> 2:07:34.160 had an alliance with the Spanish Philippines. Yeah yeah, so, 2:07:34.280 --> 2:07:38.400 I mean civil war go per, as they say, between 2:07:38.440 --> 2:07:41.640 the centralists and the Federalists, and that will continue for 2:07:41.680 --> 2:07:45.800 a while after the Declaration of the Republic in eighteen sixteen, 2:07:46.280 --> 2:07:49.080 and it was only resolved in eighteen thirty one with 2:07:49.160 --> 2:07:52.360 a Federalist victory. Basically, it was a division over how 2:07:52.400 --> 2:07:54.240 they should organize the state, whether it should be in 2:07:54.280 --> 2:07:58.080 a federal manner or more centralist unitary manner, so the Federalists, 2:07:58.120 --> 2:08:01.640 one which would lead to the war the Confederation between 2:08:01.640 --> 2:08:04.360 eighteen thirty sixty eighteen thirty nine, the establishment of the 2:08:04.400 --> 2:08:07.640 Constitution in eighteen fifty three, and a temporary secession of 2:08:07.680 --> 2:08:11.600 Buenos Aires which was forced back into Argentina by eighteen 2:08:11.640 --> 2:08:14.720 sixty one. And as in much of that in America, 2:08:14.880 --> 2:08:17.720 anarchism would establish itself fairly early on thanks to the 2:08:17.720 --> 2:08:21.480 waves of migration from Europe, and particularly from France, Italy 2:08:21.560 --> 2:08:22.000 and Spain. 2:08:22.480 --> 2:08:26.320 There are so many Italians, so many, just. 2:08:26.520 --> 2:08:31.320 An absurd amount of Italians. These folks fled political repression 2:08:31.520 --> 2:08:36.800 and poverty in their home countries. Refugees from the Paris Commune, 2:08:36.800 --> 2:08:40.240 and anarchist literature from the aforementioned lands would find themselves 2:08:40.240 --> 2:08:44.160 in the streets of Buenos Aires City and the countrysides 2:08:44.200 --> 2:08:45.400 of Buenos Aires Province. 2:08:46.040 --> 2:08:48.200 They circulated anarchist ideas. 2:08:47.800 --> 2:08:51.080 Through group meetings such as the group Elmeserabeli in the 2:08:51.080 --> 2:08:55.120 port city of Rosario, and publications like the Rivolte, which 2:08:55.160 --> 2:08:57.920 was founded by Kropotkin all the way back in Switzerland. 2:08:58.400 --> 2:09:02.400 Kropotkin's Words of a Rebel would also make frequent appearances 2:09:02.480 --> 2:09:06.960 throughout Argentina, and his Conquest of Bread received a translation 2:09:07.120 --> 2:09:11.160 by Catalan carpenter Juan Villa. As with the splits internationally, 2:09:11.680 --> 2:09:14.600 the First International's local section in Buenos Airis, which was 2:09:14.600 --> 2:09:17.560 founded in eighteen seventy two, would split between the supporters 2:09:17.600 --> 2:09:20.880 of Marx and the supporters of a Cunan. The former 2:09:20.960 --> 2:09:26.240 were predominantly French, the latter predominantly Spaniard an Italian. Three 2:09:26.360 --> 2:09:30.160 decades of substantial migration started in the eighteen eighties, which 2:09:30.160 --> 2:09:33.919 sparked significant growth in the anarchist movement as the migrants 2:09:33.920 --> 2:09:38.840 found Crussian economic deprivation and repressive governance where they'd hoped 2:09:38.920 --> 2:09:45.240 they'd find prosperity and liberty. Over three million people arrived, 2:09:45.520 --> 2:09:48.880 leading to the country having a foreign born population of 2:09:49.000 --> 2:09:54.800 thirty three percent by nineteen fourteen. Nowadays, as in much 2:09:54.800 --> 2:09:59.360 of the world, unfortunately that once foreign born population some 2:09:59.480 --> 2:10:03.800 percentage of them, and now unfortunately anti I migration, yeah, 2:10:03.880 --> 2:10:06.760 and violently. So it's a cruel irony that we find 2:10:06.760 --> 2:10:11.040 ourselves with just mere decades ago. Their own ancestors were migrants. 2:10:19.600 --> 2:10:22.200 Among the migration wave came the likes of Hector Matte, 2:10:22.480 --> 2:10:25.720 an Italian anarchist who helped publish a Socialista, which is 2:10:25.720 --> 2:10:28.880 a weekly people and of course believe it's or not, 2:10:29.760 --> 2:10:32.640 the one and only Era Kamana Testa, who keeps making 2:10:32.720 --> 2:10:37.440 guest appearances in these last American anarchism. He's just like 2:10:37.720 --> 2:10:41.520 all over the places, traveling everywhere. If I recall correctly, 2:10:41.520 --> 2:10:45.560 he made an appearance in Cuba. He made an appearance 2:10:45.880 --> 2:10:49.280 in the Egypt episode as well. Yep, she just keeps 2:10:49.280 --> 2:10:49.800 showing up. 2:10:50.000 --> 2:10:53.280 He's really truly a globe trotter in a mold that 2:10:53.320 --> 2:10:54.360 we haven't really seen. 2:10:54.640 --> 2:10:57.000 Hey, I mean move aside football, you know he's the 2:10:57.040 --> 2:11:01.760 real mister worldwide. So at Akman test He actually fled 2:11:01.800 --> 2:11:05.840 Italy in eighty eighty five after escaping imprisonment, and he 2:11:05.840 --> 2:11:09.400 helped establish the Cecuilo the Studio Socialists, where he and 2:11:09.600 --> 2:11:13.760 others gave public speeches promoting anarchism, and he worked to 2:11:13.840 --> 2:11:18.000 organize a society dad Cosmopolita de Obreros Pandero's an anarchist 2:11:18.160 --> 2:11:21.800 Baker's Union. I didn't know he could bake, maybe he 2:11:21.800 --> 2:11:23.960 could make, maybe he couldn't. Maybe he was just there, 2:11:24.040 --> 2:11:26.360 you know, helping them set up. But in my head, 2:11:26.400 --> 2:11:29.800 I'd like to imagine that he was pretty good at bacon, 2:11:29.880 --> 2:11:31.160 bread and making cookies. 2:11:31.840 --> 2:11:33.880 You know, I'm pretty sure it was like an ice 2:11:33.920 --> 2:11:35.800 cream salesman too at one point, So I might be 2:11:35.840 --> 2:11:39.000 getting that confused with like some other anarchists who was 2:11:39.040 --> 2:11:41.000 going around everywhere who was also selling ice cream. 2:11:41.080 --> 2:11:42.560 You know, I wouldn't be surprised. 2:11:42.680 --> 2:11:44.920 I have vague memories of there being a story about 2:11:45.000 --> 2:11:47.160 like him having an ice cream cart and trying to 2:11:47.200 --> 2:11:48.800 make money and he couldn't do it because he kept 2:11:48.800 --> 2:11:49.920 giving ice cream the children. 2:11:50.920 --> 2:11:52.760 I think I remember that story. I think it's so 2:11:52.920 --> 2:11:54.040 bag I had a video on it. 2:11:54.880 --> 2:11:57.080 You know that those ads used to show on TV 2:11:57.200 --> 2:12:00.120 A couple like about a decade ago, most interesting than 2:12:00.200 --> 2:12:00.840 man in the world. 2:12:01.040 --> 2:12:07.400 Yeah, he was based on Aurkromat. Yeah. 2:12:07.440 --> 2:12:07.560 So. 2:12:07.640 --> 2:12:10.280 Maltessa later returned to Europe in eighteen eighty nine, Yet 2:12:10.320 --> 2:12:13.520 he left a lasting legacy in helping to organize workers 2:12:13.560 --> 2:12:16.400 and sow the seeds for a powerful anarchist movement in 2:12:16.520 --> 2:12:20.480 Argentina in the early eighteen nineties, the anarchist paper El 2:12:20.560 --> 2:12:24.360 Perscuido became one of the most popular and prominent voices 2:12:24.400 --> 2:12:29.560 of anarchist communism in Argentina. Despite ongoing repression and government censorship, 2:12:29.840 --> 2:12:32.880 the anarchist press continued to expand during this period, with 2:12:32.960 --> 2:12:35.960 publications like La Vois de la Mochere and Anarchist Feminist 2:12:36.000 --> 2:12:39.800 People emerging in Rosario. The eighteen eighties and early eighteen 2:12:39.840 --> 2:12:43.800 nineties also involved significant internal debates, particularly around the role 2:12:43.840 --> 2:12:48.560 of workers unions and revolutionary tactics. Some groups embraced anarchist cynicalism, 2:12:49.000 --> 2:12:52.520 while others believed smaller affinity groups as catalysts of social 2:12:52.600 --> 2:12:55.840 revolution with a way to go. While in the midst 2:12:55.840 --> 2:12:59.000 of a massive rapid industrial growth and deal with the 2:12:59.040 --> 2:13:02.160 worst than economics that for the working class, such a 2:13:02.240 --> 2:13:07.000 society was ripe for transformation of the anarchist variety. Initially, 2:13:07.000 --> 2:13:10.440 the anarchists have been focused on countercultural concerns, particularly in 2:13:10.440 --> 2:13:13.880 the field of education. Where As their ranks swelled in number, 2:13:14.360 --> 2:13:16.440 the stage was set for the debut of a mass 2:13:16.520 --> 2:13:21.440 anarchist movement among Argentine workers. In eighteen ninety seven, the 2:13:21.480 --> 2:13:25.400 anarchist workers were found lab protester Humana, later shortened to 2:13:25.480 --> 2:13:29.520 Lap Protester, which would become an enduring anarchist paper throughout 2:13:29.840 --> 2:13:33.560 Latin America. But the anarchists didn't just stick to papers though. 2:13:34.280 --> 2:13:36.879 In nineteen oh one, anarchists were instrumental in the founding 2:13:36.880 --> 2:13:40.680 of the Argentine Workers Federation of the FOA, which is 2:13:40.760 --> 2:13:45.200 Argentina's first labor federation. Federation was founded in a congress 2:13:45.200 --> 2:13:48.800 that assembled some fifty delegates representing thirty to thirty five 2:13:48.840 --> 2:13:53.120 workers organizations from both capital and interior. The aim of 2:13:53.120 --> 2:13:56.600 the federation was an entity that included all workers without 2:13:56.640 --> 2:13:59.480 regard to their races or beliefs, based on a solid 2:13:59.480 --> 2:14:04.760 foundation of direct action and economic struggle. Though initially including Marxists, 2:14:05.240 --> 2:14:08.040 those would later depart to found the General Workers Union 2:14:08.120 --> 2:14:11.120 or the UGT, which was more meanable to party interests, 2:14:11.160 --> 2:14:15.240 of course, which left the FAA in anarchist hands. The 2:14:15.320 --> 2:14:18.600 FAA stood at the forefront of the struggles, advocating for 2:14:18.640 --> 2:14:22.560 higher wages and better working conditions. At the time, the 2:14:22.640 --> 2:14:26.440 typical workday was ten hours or more, with wages barely 2:14:26.440 --> 2:14:32.040 covering essential needs. Strikes broke out across industries with notable successes. 2:14:32.640 --> 2:14:35.760 Painters and Marder Platter secured an eight hour workday and 2:14:35.880 --> 2:14:38.440 dark workers in minos aires one and nine hour workday, 2:14:38.520 --> 2:14:42.400 along with a wage increase. But despite the oppression, the 2:14:42.440 --> 2:14:46.680 workers movement continued to grow stronger. The FOA's membership surged, 2:14:47.040 --> 2:14:49.760 with forty two unions and over fifteen thousand members in 2:14:49.840 --> 2:14:53.080 nineteen o three, rise into sixty six unions and nearly 2:14:53.120 --> 2:14:57.600 thirty three thousand members a year later. In nineteen o four, 2:14:57.640 --> 2:15:00.440 at its fourth congress, the group was re named the 2:15:00.480 --> 2:15:04.400 Regional Workers Federation of Argentina or the FARE or FORA. 2:15:05.440 --> 2:15:10.280 The reasoning was ideological. By adding the adjective regional, it 2:15:10.320 --> 2:15:13.400 made plain that Argentina was not considered a state or 2:15:13.440 --> 2:15:17.000 political unit, but a region of the world which workers 2:15:17.000 --> 2:15:20.920 struggled for their liberation. This fourth congress also approved of 2:15:20.960 --> 2:15:23.960 solidarity pacts that proclaimed the establishment of a class less 2:15:24.000 --> 2:15:28.040 society with neither state nor private property as the ultimate 2:15:28.080 --> 2:15:31.800 aim of their struggle. The anarchist influence was clear, but 2:15:31.880 --> 2:15:34.720 it gets even more explicit in the following year. The 2:15:34.880 --> 2:15:38.600 UGIT had been subordinated to the Marxist Socialist Party, but 2:15:38.680 --> 2:15:41.200 even their third congress in nineteen oh five had a 2:15:41.200 --> 2:15:46.760 syndicalist emergence to preferred workers associations to political parties. Basically, 2:15:46.800 --> 2:15:50.040 even the non anarchist workers organizations would be an influenced 2:15:50.040 --> 2:15:52.640 by the anarchist wave, so much so that the UGIT 2:15:52.760 --> 2:15:56.760 wanted to form a solidarity pact with Fura. The anarchist 2:15:56.800 --> 2:16:01.960 and four didn't quite trust the parliamentary socialism of the UGT. Still, 2:16:02.400 --> 2:16:04.280 they did work with them to call a general strike 2:16:04.320 --> 2:16:06.640 in nineteen oh seven and saw a diarity with cart 2:16:06.720 --> 2:16:09.880 drivers in Rosario, joined by some one hundred and fifty 2:16:09.880 --> 2:16:14.800 eight thousand workers from around the republic. That strike ended 2:16:14.800 --> 2:16:18.560 in victory for the workers. In nineteen oh five, two 2:16:18.640 --> 2:16:22.240 years before and as fifth Congress, Foura made its commitments 2:16:22.240 --> 2:16:27.640 to revolutionary anarchist communism explicitly known quote the advice and 2:16:27.680 --> 2:16:30.880 recommend to all our followers the broadest possible study and 2:16:30.920 --> 2:16:34.560 propaganda with the aim of insterning workers economic and philosophical 2:16:34.560 --> 2:16:39.560 principles of anarchist communism. This education, not content with achieve 2:16:39.600 --> 2:16:43.360 in the eight hour workday, would bring total emancipation and 2:16:43.480 --> 2:16:48.280 consequently the social evolution we pursue end quote four. I 2:16:48.440 --> 2:16:51.800 was among the largest federations of workers organizations and it 2:16:51.879 --> 2:16:55.680 was officially anarchist communists. The nineteen oh sixth ninety o 2:16:55.760 --> 2:16:58.720 seven general and tenant strikes gone a greater favor, and 2:16:58.800 --> 2:17:03.000 in response, Whenasyrius police head Colonel Falcones sware to finish 2:17:03.160 --> 2:17:06.200 or off the anarchists nineteen oh seven saw for Her 2:17:06.280 --> 2:17:09.640 and Ugit attempt a merger, but since the majority sought 2:17:09.680 --> 2:17:13.959 adherence to anarchist communism, the merger could not be achieved. 2:17:14.480 --> 2:17:17.920 For Her was militant and effective in achieving many of 2:17:17.920 --> 2:17:21.800 its schools, including wage increases, reductions in the length of 2:17:21.840 --> 2:17:26.160 the work day, and various rights of association. Port workers, 2:17:26.240 --> 2:17:31.320 Crown transport workers, seamen's unions, bakers, metal workers, construction workers, 2:17:31.320 --> 2:17:34.760 and ship workers were all prominent in the federation and 2:17:34.840 --> 2:17:39.160 were well positioned to paralyze the Argentine economy and win 2:17:39.240 --> 2:17:42.760 their demands. In the first decade of the twentieth century, 2:17:43.120 --> 2:17:47.279 these unions led six general strikes and many more partial strikes, 2:17:47.800 --> 2:17:50.080 and women were more involved than in any other radical 2:17:50.120 --> 2:17:53.640 movement of the time, taking part in consumer boycotts and 2:17:53.720 --> 2:17:56.480 rent strikes as well. But the anarchists knew the ruptures 2:17:56.520 --> 2:18:08.320 in the capitalist economy wouldn't be enough. It could never 2:18:08.360 --> 2:18:11.160 be enough to merely confront the system and refuse to 2:18:11.160 --> 2:18:16.920 corporate the system as it is. The social revolutionals demands consciousness, solidarity, 2:18:17.320 --> 2:18:23.000 and the prefiguration of an enlightened progressive society in social organizations. Thus, 2:18:23.080 --> 2:18:27.400 anarchists engaged in counter culture, multiple papers in multiple languages, 2:18:27.840 --> 2:18:33.760 theater and poetry, may day marches, social centers, popular education centers, 2:18:34.000 --> 2:18:38.160 popular libraries, and discussion circles. All of these efforts were 2:18:38.160 --> 2:18:41.360 ceded throughout the cities and linked to various unions to 2:18:41.440 --> 2:18:46.640 create a veritable and dynamic network of revolutionary causes. And 2:18:46.680 --> 2:18:49.680 since the government understood the anarchist threat, they tried their 2:18:49.720 --> 2:18:53.520 best to raise the cost of revolutionary activism. The actions 2:18:53.560 --> 2:18:57.920 included petty police harassment, the humiliated and inconvenient searches and 2:18:58.000 --> 2:19:01.640 protuitors demands identification, which were a familiar experience for the 2:19:01.640 --> 2:19:05.800 anarchist militants. There was also without law and of radical publications, 2:19:06.160 --> 2:19:09.879 the suppression of the right to public assembly, mass arrests, 2:19:10.280 --> 2:19:12.879 martial law declared for a total of eighteen months between 2:19:12.920 --> 2:19:15.560 nineteen oh two and nineteen ten, and of course outright 2:19:15.680 --> 2:19:19.720 violence to the police, the army and other formal forces. 2:19:19.920 --> 2:19:23.360 In addition to thugs acting on their behalf. The governor 2:19:23.360 --> 2:19:26.480 also attempted to undermine the anarchist movement through legislative means. 2:19:27.120 --> 2:19:30.160 The Resident's Law in nineteen oh two granted the government 2:19:30.160 --> 2:19:34.879 the right to deport foreigners that are deemed undesirable without trial. 2:19:36.000 --> 2:19:37.920 After the law had been in effect for a few years, 2:19:38.320 --> 2:19:40.320 four are called a general strike. 2:19:39.959 --> 2:19:41.600 Against its oppressive conditions. 2:19:42.280 --> 2:19:45.160 For as leadership condemned the law as a violation of 2:19:45.240 --> 2:19:47.920 human rights labor it as a tool where the state 2:19:48.160 --> 2:19:49.560 to suppress free thoughts. 2:19:49.280 --> 2:19:53.920 And working class movements. The government did not budge. 2:19:54.080 --> 2:19:57.360 On May Day nineteen oh nine, police violently attacked a 2:19:57.400 --> 2:20:01.960 peaceful protest organized by transport workers inists, killing eight people 2:20:02.320 --> 2:20:07.119 and wounded many others. Colonel Falcone, the recurrent villain who 2:20:07.280 --> 2:20:10.560 ordered the attack, later became the target of a retaliatory 2:20:10.600 --> 2:20:14.359 bombing by young anarchist Simon Radowitski in November. 2:20:14.000 --> 2:20:15.199 Nineteen o nine. 2:20:15.240 --> 2:20:19.039 This act of defiance shook the whole country. In the meantime, 2:20:19.040 --> 2:20:22.680 the anarchist cause also resonated internationally. In response to the 2:20:22.760 --> 2:20:27.240 execution of Francisco Ferrer, a Spanish educator and anarchist fora 2:20:27.320 --> 2:20:31.840 led a series of strikes in Argentina, joining global protests 2:20:31.920 --> 2:20:32.760 against his death. 2:20:33.480 --> 2:20:35.279 Nineteen ten marked. 2:20:35.120 --> 2:20:39.840 Argentina's preparations for the centenary celebrations of its first national government, 2:20:40.360 --> 2:20:42.519 portray itself as a beacon of prosperity. 2:20:43.120 --> 2:20:44.199 But oh, here come. 2:20:44.040 --> 2:20:47.000 The workers with their unrest and protests to sour the 2:20:47.080 --> 2:20:50.160 vibes and demand the release of political prisoners and the. 2:20:50.160 --> 2:20:51.560 Abolition of the law of residence. 2:20:52.440 --> 2:20:56.600 Naturally, the government responded by declaring a state of internal war, 2:20:57.240 --> 2:21:02.200 arresting hundreds of anarchists, including four leaders, and imposing extreme 2:21:02.320 --> 2:21:07.200 censorship and restrictions and civil liberties, shut downs of publications, 2:21:07.440 --> 2:21:11.400 and the declaration of a state of emergency. The government 2:21:11.440 --> 2:21:14.600 also introduced the Social Defense Law, which levied a series 2:21:14.640 --> 2:21:19.600 of penalties against anarchist activities, specifically as a centennial celebrations unfolded, 2:21:20.000 --> 2:21:24.440 Argentina had transformed into a heavily militarized state, with more 2:21:24.480 --> 2:21:29.240 than two thousand anarchists arrested or deported. So much for 2:21:29.280 --> 2:21:35.800 a grand celebration of their free democracy. Despite the repression, 2:21:36.240 --> 2:21:40.400 the workers move once continued to grow. Forest general strikes 2:21:40.440 --> 2:21:43.320 forced the government to make concessions and release jailed workers, 2:21:44.080 --> 2:21:47.520 but divisions began to appear within the movement after deal 2:21:47.560 --> 2:21:50.760 with so much repression for their erratical ideas. A split 2:21:50.760 --> 2:21:53.160 occurred in nineteen oh nine with the formation of the 2:21:53.160 --> 2:21:56.720 syndicalist group CORA, which adopted much of for US structure 2:21:57.120 --> 2:22:00.960 and retained some anarchist ideas, but leaned awards a less 2:22:01.040 --> 2:22:05.520 radical approach, hoping to be less of a target. The 2:22:05.560 --> 2:22:08.800 anarchist took yet another hit when in nineteen twelve the 2:22:08.840 --> 2:22:13.640 Science Penier Law made voting secret and obligatory, thus making 2:22:13.680 --> 2:22:18.560 anarchists abstentionism as a tactic illegal. The range of possible 2:22:18.600 --> 2:22:23.840 actions was being intentionally closed. While they were these external pressures, 2:22:24.080 --> 2:22:25.880 anarchists also had to deal with the pressures from within 2:22:25.920 --> 2:22:28.520 the workers' movement by even more folks who wanted to 2:22:28.520 --> 2:22:32.720 compromise the revolutionary goals. Another split between the synicalist anarchists 2:22:32.720 --> 2:22:35.760 occurred to the for US ninth Congress in nineteen fifteen. 2:22:36.800 --> 2:22:42.039 Unions were increasingly led by reformists, social democrats, and uncommitted anarchists, 2:22:42.400 --> 2:22:45.880 which led to the thesis of a neutral cyndicalism focused 2:22:45.920 --> 2:22:48.959 on winning workers' rights becoming the dominant position within fur Her, 2:22:49.840 --> 2:22:53.280 the synicalists dropped their commitment to anarchist communism and claimed 2:22:53.280 --> 2:22:56.320 the name the Fora of the Ninth Congress, while the 2:22:56.320 --> 2:22:59.840 minority of anarchists that maintained their commitments anarchist communism took 2:22:59.840 --> 2:23:03.879 the name the Fura of the Fifth Congress. The timing 2:23:03.920 --> 2:23:08.280 of the split was impeccable, though you see, as has 2:23:08.320 --> 2:23:11.200 been a recurring theme in this series, the Russian Revolution 2:23:11.280 --> 2:23:16.000 of nineteen seventeen had a significant impact in Argentinian anarchism. 2:23:16.240 --> 2:23:19.560 In a sense, it reignited the revolutionary fever within the 2:23:19.600 --> 2:23:22.760 movement and led to the reformist and cynicalist four or 2:23:22.840 --> 2:23:28.320 nine losing influence, but revolutionary ideas once again gained momentum. 2:23:28.680 --> 2:23:32.520 For a brief moment, there was hope, but the Bolsheviks 2:23:32.520 --> 2:23:37.560 will waste little time in crushing that hope. By nineteen twenty, 2:23:38.080 --> 2:23:42.400 Argentinian anarchists, like their European counterparts, began to distance themselves 2:23:42.440 --> 2:23:45.680 from Leninism. They began to recognize the authority and nature 2:23:45.720 --> 2:23:49.760 of the Bolsheviks, took note of Kropotkin and Lenin's correspondences 2:23:49.959 --> 2:23:53.320 and soon came to reject the idea of the dictatorship 2:23:53.360 --> 2:23:57.760 of the proletaria. On his part, alongside his mass slats 2:23:57.760 --> 2:24:00.440 of the anarchists in Constat. Then in all So ordered 2:24:00.440 --> 2:24:04.119 the confiscation of anarchist texts, but he saw us influencing 2:24:04.200 --> 2:24:10.840 the conflict within the Bolshevik ranks. Tale as old as time. Anyway, 2:24:11.640 --> 2:24:15.039 next time we'll see if and how the anarchist Argentina 2:24:15.120 --> 2:24:19.520 managed to navigate the tumultuous twenties, thirties and beyond to 2:24:19.600 --> 2:24:23.840 leave a lasting mark on Argentine history. But things are 2:24:23.920 --> 2:24:27.959 looking too good for them right now. Until then, we'll 2:24:28.000 --> 2:24:30.280 power to all the people. This has been It could 2:24:30.280 --> 2:24:53.160 happen here. Hello, and welcome back to it could happen here, 2:24:53.600 --> 2:24:58.600 Amandrew Sage. F'm me on YouTube at Andrew's I'm here 2:24:58.640 --> 2:25:00.240 once again with. 2:25:01.600 --> 2:25:05.440 Oh be a haha. That was by Q. Yeah indeed, yeah, 2:25:05.560 --> 2:25:06.680 she's here. 2:25:07.280 --> 2:25:10.480 And today we'll continue in the Latin American Anarchism series 2:25:10.480 --> 2:25:15.320 with our exploration of anarchism in Argentina. That's the scholarship 2:25:15.360 --> 2:25:19.600 of Chuck Moss, Jeffrey de la Focade, and Hill Capelletti 2:25:20.560 --> 2:25:26.120 and Jose Antonio Guterrez and Ian McKay. When we us left, 2:25:26.160 --> 2:25:29.840 all faious laws and government actions were pressed hard on 2:25:29.879 --> 2:25:33.519 the anarchist cause in the country, which when the anarchists executed, 2:25:33.640 --> 2:25:37.560 jailed or exiled, what become of the anarchist movement? Where 2:25:37.560 --> 2:25:42.560 things get better or worse? Sad to say, I think 2:25:42.600 --> 2:25:46.240 you know the answer. Nineteen nineteen marked the year of 2:25:46.320 --> 2:25:51.520 La Simana Tragica or the Tragic Week, when several metal 2:25:51.520 --> 2:25:54.600 workers were killed by strike breakers. This led to a 2:25:54.640 --> 2:25:57.920 general strike that shut down the entire country and pushed 2:25:57.920 --> 2:26:00.880 Buenos Aires into a state of chaos for several days. 2:26:01.480 --> 2:26:05.800 The anarchist paper A Protester, noted the complete shutdown and 2:26:05.879 --> 2:26:07.199 praised workers solidarity. 2:26:08.040 --> 2:26:09.760 But despite the revolutionhang. 2:26:09.240 --> 2:26:13.680 Atmosphere, the movement lacked a clear objective, which weakened its 2:26:13.760 --> 2:26:14.640 long term impact. 2:26:15.240 --> 2:26:18.160 They had the power, but didn't do too much with it. 2:26:18.959 --> 2:26:23.280 Eventually, the police and Argentina's first fascist organization, Lega Patriotica, 2:26:23.680 --> 2:26:26.640 were able to subdue the rebellion. The fascists, by the way, 2:26:26.640 --> 2:26:29.520 we were backed by military figures like Rare Admirals burmech 2:26:29.600 --> 2:26:35.000 Garcia and O'Connor. They attacked and killed with impunity, and 2:26:35.040 --> 2:26:38.000 in the end the fifty five thousand were detained, with 2:26:38.120 --> 2:26:41.560 anarchists sent to Martin, Garcia, Ireland, and as many as 2:26:41.600 --> 2:26:45.879 seven hundred were killed and four thousand were injured. The 2:26:45.920 --> 2:26:49.360 anarchist move one persisted as they always do. That protester 2:26:49.480 --> 2:26:52.480 continued publishing, alongside the launch of new papers like Mandera 2:26:52.560 --> 2:26:57.400 Roja and Tribuna Proletaria, even after the government banned anarchist 2:26:57.400 --> 2:27:00.120 press in March nineteen nineteen. They move on contained you 2:27:00.200 --> 2:27:04.800 to organize, culminating an extraordinary Congress of two hundred unions 2:27:04.840 --> 2:27:08.640 in September nineteen twenty. Throughout the nineteen twenties, four or 2:27:08.680 --> 2:27:12.640 five remained a powerful force in Argentina's labor movement, pushing 2:27:12.680 --> 2:27:15.760 for causes like the six hour weekday and resistant rise 2:27:15.800 --> 2:27:20.360 in nationalists and military sentiments, but throughout came more repression. 2:27:21.120 --> 2:27:23.560 In nineteen twenty one, Argentinian workers there Are for A 2:27:23.600 --> 2:27:26.359 style in the Chaco region were brutally killed for demanding 2:27:26.400 --> 2:27:31.080 better wages and conditions. The anarchist FOURR proposed solidarity actions, 2:27:31.280 --> 2:27:34.560 but the more reformist FORA the Ninth Congress, distanced itself, 2:27:35.040 --> 2:27:39.320 leaving the movement unsupported. This indifference, unfortunately also extended to 2:27:39.360 --> 2:27:42.600 other violent incidents, such as the murder of workers were 2:27:42.600 --> 2:27:47.240 the fascist Legal Patriotica in gualle Kuaiaju, and worse still, 2:27:47.280 --> 2:27:50.720 with the largely unreported massacres of striking rural workers in 2:27:50.760 --> 2:27:54.879 Patagonia by the army sending fifteen hundred to death by 2:27:54.959 --> 2:27:58.760 firing squad, an event ignored by most media except for 2:27:58.800 --> 2:28:02.840 anarchist outlets like Leberate Esther. In this case, at least 2:28:02.840 --> 2:28:06.119 the anarchists got their get back somewhat later, when German 2:28:06.160 --> 2:28:10.280 anarchists could Wilkins assassinated, couldn't Hector Valera, the military leader 2:28:10.360 --> 2:28:12.040 responsible for the killers. 2:28:12.520 --> 2:28:17.600 That whole story is so wild because the German assassin 2:28:17.720 --> 2:28:21.320 was also a pacifist. But it's just like fuck it. 2:28:21.320 --> 2:28:23.200 With ball, Yeah, I mean sometimes they had to do 2:28:23.200 --> 2:28:23.760 what you had to do. 2:28:24.160 --> 2:28:27.160 Yeah, And I mean the government got it to get 2:28:27.200 --> 2:28:30.519 back as well, because Wilkins was later murdered in retaliation 2:28:30.920 --> 2:28:34.879 for his murder of you know, Hector Valera. But at 2:28:34.959 --> 2:28:39.040 least that led to general strike across Argentina. It truly 2:28:39.160 --> 2:28:44.920 is a wild story. Anarchists in Argentina further agitated in 2:28:44.920 --> 2:28:48.920 opposition to the trial and execution of Italian American anarchists 2:28:49.040 --> 2:28:52.480 Sacco and Vanzetti in the United States in nineteen twenty seven. 2:28:53.560 --> 2:28:57.280 This was a notorious case by the way, but we'll 2:28:57.280 --> 2:29:00.880 pull that string another time. There was anarchist who took 2:29:00.920 --> 2:29:04.039 the protests in a different direction, though known to be 2:29:04.360 --> 2:29:09.080 prolific in his acts of violence. Italian anarchists Severino the Giovanni, 2:29:09.240 --> 2:29:12.840 carried out bombin's against the American embassy to protest the trial, 2:29:13.440 --> 2:29:17.320 bombings against the Italian consulate to protest Italian fascism, and 2:29:17.480 --> 2:29:22.080 robberies throughout the country. The Giovanni's actions sparked debate among 2:29:22.120 --> 2:29:27.400 anarchists about the issue of quote unquote anarcho banditry. Some papers, 2:29:27.480 --> 2:29:33.320 like Landtorchia, defended the Giovanni, others like That Protester, attacked him. 2:29:33.600 --> 2:29:34.720 The Giovanni's fight. 2:29:34.600 --> 2:29:37.000 Came to an end in nineteen thirty one, when he 2:29:37.080 --> 2:29:39.440 was arrested and executed for carrying out the murder of 2:29:39.560 --> 2:29:42.760 one of his fascest fellow anarchist critics, a certain La 2:29:42.840 --> 2:29:48.000 Protester editor named Emilio Lopez Arango. As it could probably imagine, 2:29:48.600 --> 2:29:52.920 they weren't any general strikes to protest the Giovanni's execution. 2:29:54.240 --> 2:29:58.760 General Jose Felix Urriburu led a coup in nineteen thirty 2:29:59.040 --> 2:30:02.440 that marked the ra eyes of fascism in Argentina and 2:30:02.480 --> 2:30:08.400 the continuation of systematic persecution against workers and anarchists. Many 2:30:08.440 --> 2:30:12.480 were imprisoned, deported, or killed, including prominent figures like Juan 2:30:12.480 --> 2:30:17.119 Antonio Moran and Joaquin Penina. Anarchist groups and unions were 2:30:17.120 --> 2:30:21.400 oppressed under Uriburu's martial law, whither more moderate Confederacio and 2:30:21.520 --> 2:30:27.560 General del Trabajo or SGT, dominated by reformers. Socialists survived 2:30:27.959 --> 2:30:30.760 and became the main representative of workers in the country 2:30:31.120 --> 2:30:35.920 thanks to Uriburu's corporatist stats. Martial law was peeled back 2:30:35.959 --> 2:30:39.640 slightly by nineteen thirty two. With such heavy blows the movement, 2:30:40.160 --> 2:30:43.279 anarchists had to pull back to the more countercultural efforts 2:30:43.320 --> 2:30:47.080 to define their movement. In the eighteen eighties, for Our 2:30:47.120 --> 2:30:51.160 resumed publishing activities with that protester returning as a daily 2:30:51.920 --> 2:30:55.600 but government pressure, including action against his editors and restrictions 2:30:55.600 --> 2:30:59.439 and postal services, made it difficult to maintain this daily schedule. 2:31:00.280 --> 2:31:04.440 Eventuallyla Protest transition to a weekly, then bi weekly, and 2:31:04.520 --> 2:31:09.640 family monthly publication. Despite these challenges, a group of anarchist 2:31:09.680 --> 2:31:13.160 militants and via Devoto Prison, conceived the idea of a 2:31:13.280 --> 2:31:17.560 national Anarchist Congress. This congress first met in September nineteen 2:31:17.600 --> 2:31:20.039 thirty two in the Rosario, which that it gets from 2:31:20.040 --> 2:31:24.120 across the country, and one key outcome of this congress 2:31:24.480 --> 2:31:27.920 was the creation of the Committee Rijonal de re Laciones 2:31:28.160 --> 2:31:33.120 Anarquistas or the CRIRA. This later foundation for became the 2:31:33.240 --> 2:31:37.600 Argentine Anacho Communist Federation or FACER in nineteen thirty five, 2:31:38.240 --> 2:31:42.920 although the organization never really gained a mass following in 2:31:42.959 --> 2:31:45.880 nineteen thirty five, anarchists also established to be able to 2:31:45.959 --> 2:31:49.840 take er Popular Jose in h niros a library and 2:31:49.959 --> 2:31:53.760 social center. While initially founded the support of socialists, the 2:31:53.800 --> 2:31:57.879 anarchist took full control after the socialists left. Around this time, 2:31:58.240 --> 2:32:01.959 anarchist groups campaign faiercely to free Voto Maini and the 2:32:02.000 --> 2:32:05.600 Diago comrades, who had been tortured and imprisoned for over 2:32:05.720 --> 2:32:09.600 a decade. The newspaper just this year was created solely 2:32:09.640 --> 2:32:12.520 to advocate for their release, who was finally granted in 2:32:12.600 --> 2:32:16.760 nineteen forty two. Throughout this period, the anarchist press remained active, 2:32:17.400 --> 2:32:22.160 the number of publications diminished. Several publishing houses like not Review, Iman, 2:32:22.320 --> 2:32:27.520 Tupac and Reconstrier kept anarchist literature alive, publishing key works 2:32:27.560 --> 2:32:31.560 and essays. In nineteen thirty three, Accion Libertaria emerged and 2:32:31.600 --> 2:32:34.960 eventually became the voice of FACA, later owners the Federacion 2:32:35.040 --> 2:32:39.640 Libertaria Argentina or FLA until nineteen seventy one. But the 2:32:39.720 --> 2:32:43.240 most significant international event for Argentine anarchists during the nineteen 2:32:43.280 --> 2:32:47.000 thirties was the Spanish Civil War. The rise of fascist 2:32:47.000 --> 2:32:50.160 among the resistance, led by the CNT and Federacio Anarchista 2:32:50.200 --> 2:32:55.440 Iberica or FAI, inspired Argentine anarchists to provide solidarity and support. 2:32:56.280 --> 2:32:59.040 Many traveled to Spain to join the fight, with Jose 2:32:59.160 --> 2:33:02.480 Grenfeld become and the secretary of the FAI. Campaigns to 2:33:02.520 --> 2:33:05.800 support anti fascists in the Spanish Civil War were also launched, 2:33:06.160 --> 2:33:09.680 with FACA publishing books and pamphlets in the struggle. FACA 2:33:09.760 --> 2:33:13.560 launched Saladari dad Operera in nineteen forty one, edited by 2:33:13.640 --> 2:33:17.040 Juan Corral and Loreano Rieira, though it was later shut 2:33:17.040 --> 2:33:21.560 down by the first Justici Aalista government under Peron. FURA 2:33:21.680 --> 2:33:25.520 also began publishing a series of booklets, including Toros condre 2:33:25.600 --> 2:33:29.640 la Guerra in nineteen thirty five and Lucca Constructiva Pola 2:33:29.680 --> 2:33:34.280 Lebordad e Justicia in nineteen forty four. One notable libertarian 2:33:34.320 --> 2:33:38.920 cultural journal, Ombre de America, ran from January nineteen forty 2:33:39.080 --> 2:33:42.160 until the end of nineteen forty five, covering nearly the 2:33:42.320 --> 2:33:46.560 entire duration of the Second World War. FACA was clear 2:33:46.600 --> 2:33:49.000 about its position on the global conflicts of the time. 2:33:49.400 --> 2:33:52.320 In nineteen forty two General Plennary, the group denounced both 2:33:52.360 --> 2:33:56.959 Western democracies, which they saw as vlain capitalist exploitation, and 2:33:57.040 --> 2:34:01.760 the Soviet Union, which they deemed bureaucratic. However, they saw 2:34:01.760 --> 2:34:06.080 the greatest threat in national socialism the Nazis and the 2:34:06.200 --> 2:34:09.279 rise of the Third Reich one in the total tyrrianism 2:34:09.800 --> 2:34:13.640 was the worst danger of their era. Faker's statement of 2:34:13.680 --> 2:34:17.600 solidarity with the oppressed under the Nazi barbarity also recognized 2:34:17.600 --> 2:34:21.280 the threat posed by Soviet expansionism and the force promises 2:34:21.320 --> 2:34:26.200 of post war democracies. Domestically, FAKA and FA faced a 2:34:26.240 --> 2:34:30.200 new challenge with the rise of Juan Domingo Perun. His 2:34:30.440 --> 2:34:36.039 populist approach, while beneficial somewhat to workers, was paradoxical for anarchists. 2:34:36.720 --> 2:34:41.680 Prone's government promoted a state centered jingoistic project that co 2:34:41.720 --> 2:34:47.160 opted labor movements through control networks, undermining genuine proletarian democracy. 2:34:47.800 --> 2:34:51.280 Anarchists rejected Peranism, seen its as a threat to the 2:34:51.320 --> 2:34:57.120 revolutionary ethos of worker's solidarity. Despite this, fora retained some influence, 2:34:57.600 --> 2:35:01.439 especially among agricultural workers, who were caught between the identities 2:35:01.480 --> 2:35:06.039 of peasants and workers. In June nineteen forty six, anarchist 2:35:06.080 --> 2:35:10.800 launched a new newspaper, Reconstruire, with Louista Luci as editor. 2:35:11.640 --> 2:35:15.160 The first issue featured Jaccobo Prince's critique of Peranism in 2:35:15.200 --> 2:35:20.760 an article titled El totali tarismo falsea il Principio de 2:35:20.959 --> 2:35:26.240 Justicia social, calling out the regime's distortion of social justice. 2:35:27.280 --> 2:35:30.400 By the late nineteen forties and early nineteen fifties, FA's 2:35:30.440 --> 2:35:34.120 influence had waned and anacosynicalism was reduced to a smaller 2:35:34.240 --> 2:35:38.240 role in Argentina's labor movement. However, the Sociya Dad there 2:35:38.240 --> 2:35:42.959 Resistencia del p del Puerto, aligned with FA, demonstrated their 2:35:42.959 --> 2:35:46.720 commitment to anarchosynicalism in nineteen fifty two by rejecting a 2:35:46.760 --> 2:35:51.440 compulsory wage tax to fund a monument to Eva Peron 2:35:51.720 --> 2:35:52.520 Jesus Christ. 2:35:53.360 --> 2:35:55.040 Yeah. 2:35:55.200 --> 2:35:58.120 This act of defiance led to the imprisonment of several 2:35:58.120 --> 2:36:02.039 militants for six months. Imagine you decide you want to 2:36:02.080 --> 2:36:08.360 reject extra taxes because the dictator's wife demands a monument 2:36:08.560 --> 2:36:13.440 like that's the ethrone jail because you decide you don't 2:36:13.480 --> 2:36:14.320 want to pay that tax. 2:36:15.200 --> 2:36:17.279 God, this terrible stuff. 2:36:18.400 --> 2:36:22.520 While Peerans regime weakened free unism, he did so by 2:36:22.560 --> 2:36:26.400 means of corruption rather than violence, contrasting with the methods 2:36:26.400 --> 2:36:31.320 of his predecessor Urriburu. Facer continued its work well then 2:36:31.440 --> 2:36:34.480 several congresses, including the fourth in nineteen fifty one and 2:36:34.520 --> 2:36:37.720 the fifth of nineteen fifty five, just before Peroans overthrew 2:36:38.560 --> 2:36:42.959 in nineteen fifty five. Facker rebranded as the Federacion Libertaria 2:36:43.080 --> 2:36:46.920 Argentina or the FLA, and the FLA held its sixth 2:36:46.920 --> 2:36:50.480 congress in nineteen sixty one, and his journal records career, 2:36:50.800 --> 2:36:54.400 published regularly from nineteen fifty nine until nineteen seventy six, 2:36:55.040 --> 2:37:08.120 coincided with the onset of Argentina's most brutal dictatorship. But 2:37:08.200 --> 2:37:10.920 before we fast forward in nineteen seventy six, we need 2:37:11.000 --> 2:37:14.720 to explore took place in the sixties. The sixties are 2:37:14.760 --> 2:37:17.039 known as the New Left era in many parts of 2:37:17.040 --> 2:37:21.120 the world thanks to the rise of student radicalism. The 2:37:21.160 --> 2:37:24.560 New Left is marked by a notable libertarian and democratic impulse, 2:37:25.040 --> 2:37:28.640 an emphasis on cultural as well as political transformation, an 2:37:28.640 --> 2:37:31.720 extension of traditional lefts focus in class struggle to achnowledge 2:37:31.800 --> 2:37:35.280 multiple forms and basis of oppression, including race and gender, 2:37:35.840 --> 2:37:39.080 an emphasis and anti imperialism and anti clonalism, and a 2:37:39.160 --> 2:37:43.280 rejection of bureaucracy and traditional forms of political organization in 2:37:43.320 --> 2:37:48.160 favor of direct action and participatory democracy. Many youth were 2:37:48.160 --> 2:37:52.880 searching for a third way outside of Soviet and Western models, 2:37:53.920 --> 2:37:57.200 so during the nineteen sixties and seventies, a new generation 2:37:57.280 --> 2:38:01.280 of Argentine youth turned to anarchism, though they struggled to 2:38:01.320 --> 2:38:05.520 collaborate with the older anarchist movements. Cultural and political differences 2:38:05.560 --> 2:38:08.960 were the heart of this divide, with younger militantligning themselves 2:38:08.959 --> 2:38:11.720 more to global anti imperureless movements at the time than 2:38:11.760 --> 2:38:15.720 with the anarchist legacy already within Argentina. In some ways, 2:38:16.080 --> 2:38:19.040 this generational riff left a scar in the anarchist struggle. 2:38:19.640 --> 2:38:22.320 In other ways helped younger anarchists to develop a clearer 2:38:22.400 --> 2:38:26.280 ideological stance compared to their counterparts in countries where such 2:38:26.320 --> 2:38:30.560 internal conflicts were less prevalent. One of the most significant 2:38:30.560 --> 2:38:34.119 anarchist groups to emerge during this period was Resistancia Libertaria. 2:38:34.720 --> 2:38:39.480 Operating condestantly and with a cellular structure, RL aimed to 2:38:39.560 --> 2:38:44.160 ignite mass resistance and ultimately spark a prolonged popular war. 2:38:44.920 --> 2:38:48.760 The group was active in neighborhoods, labor movements, and student circles, 2:38:49.200 --> 2:38:51.600 and it had a small armed wing for defense and 2:38:51.640 --> 2:38:57.359 expropriation purposes. Although it was formerly a national organization, RL's 2:38:57.400 --> 2:39:02.000 main operations were in La Plata, Cordoba and purosiris A. 2:39:02.200 --> 2:39:06.280 Argentina grew increasingly polarized in the mid nineteen seventies, arial 2:39:06.320 --> 2:39:10.879 activists became targets. Many were disappeared even before the military 2:39:10.879 --> 2:39:14.520 coup of nineteen seventy six, but then it hit Henry 2:39:14.600 --> 2:39:18.760 Kissinger at the United States Machinations or fruit. 2:39:20.480 --> 2:39:22.760 Yeah, yeah, yeah, we go in there. 2:39:24.040 --> 2:39:28.400 A military coup overthrew President Isabel Peron, the third wife 2:39:28.440 --> 2:39:31.800 of the original Peron, and installed a junta led by 2:39:31.879 --> 2:39:37.240 Lieutenant General Jorgue Rafael videla Admiral Emilio Eduardo Masserra and 2:39:37.320 --> 2:39:41.440 Brigadier General Orlando Ramon Augusti. This coup was part of 2:39:41.520 --> 2:39:46.160 Operation Condo, a coordinated effort between Latin American dictatorships back 2:39:46.200 --> 2:39:50.480 with the United States under its Cold War National Security doctrine. 2:39:50.680 --> 2:39:54.199 The aim was allegedly to maintain stability in the region 2:39:54.520 --> 2:39:58.760 that America considers its backyard, and US officials, including Kissinger, 2:39:59.200 --> 2:40:02.120 was shorten meet with Argentine military leaders after the coup 2:40:02.640 --> 2:40:06.280 encouraged them to wipe out the opposition quickly and brutally 2:40:06.720 --> 2:40:10.440 before any winy human rights concerned started to be raised internationally. 2:40:10.959 --> 2:40:13.960 The junta remained in power until December nineteen eighty three, 2:40:14.360 --> 2:40:18.440 during which time some thirty thousand people were disappeared or executed. 2:40:19.360 --> 2:40:24.120 RL militants were particularly targeted by the regime. One particularly 2:40:24.160 --> 2:40:27.640 horrible story I have to share. The military men responsible 2:40:27.680 --> 2:40:32.080 for the killings often spared pregnant women, kept them in 2:40:32.120 --> 2:40:35.960 custody until they gave birth, then killed the mothers and 2:40:36.080 --> 2:40:38.600 gave their influence to childless military families. 2:40:39.040 --> 2:40:39.680 Is christ. 2:40:40.080 --> 2:40:43.120 That's the kind of evil with dealing mid Yeah, And 2:40:43.160 --> 2:40:47.200 despite the dangers, RL continued its activities until nineteen seventy eight, 2:40:47.640 --> 2:40:50.600 when a series of coordinated police raids dismantled much of 2:40:50.640 --> 2:40:54.520 the group. Around eighty percent of URL members were detained 2:40:54.520 --> 2:40:58.040 in concentration camps where they were tortured and most were 2:40:58.080 --> 2:41:02.440 eventually executed. And that is how you kill a social movement. 2:41:03.959 --> 2:41:06.080 In the final years of the tatorship and follow on 2:41:06.120 --> 2:41:08.720 their re establishment of civil government in nineteen eighty three, 2:41:09.240 --> 2:41:12.920 new and relatively anti authoritarian social movements emerged in Argentina, 2:41:13.720 --> 2:41:16.080 among the most prominent, with the Madres te la Plaza 2:41:16.120 --> 2:41:19.200 de Mayo, a group of mothers advocating for justice for 2:41:19.240 --> 2:41:23.080 those who had been disappeared on the military regime. Alongside them, 2:41:23.560 --> 2:41:27.720 they are psychologists, feminists, and other grassroots activists began to 2:41:27.720 --> 2:41:31.360 make their voices heard. This shift marked a significant departure 2:41:31.400 --> 2:41:35.480 from traditional state centric leftist politics, with a growing inclination 2:41:35.640 --> 2:41:40.080 towards more decentralized approaches. While this climate sparked renewed interest 2:41:40.120 --> 2:41:43.440 in anarchism, it didn't lead to a substantial increase in the 2:41:43.480 --> 2:41:48.240 membership of older anarchist organizations. Instead, it highlighted the transformation 2:41:48.360 --> 2:41:51.240 and how social movements approached to activism and sought to 2:41:51.240 --> 2:41:55.560 address issues of justice and accountability, and then we come 2:41:55.560 --> 2:41:59.720 into the twenty first century. In the early two thousand, Argentina, 2:42:00.040 --> 2:42:03.520 which was once a poster child for neoliberalism thanks to 2:42:03.560 --> 2:42:07.240 the actions of the didataship, found itself in the throwers 2:42:07.480 --> 2:42:12.039 of a devastating economic crisis. This meltdown didn't just affect 2:42:12.080 --> 2:42:15.680 the economy, ignited a wave of social movements that were 2:42:15.720 --> 2:42:20.760 far more confrontational, radical, and anarchistic than before, which of 2:42:20.840 --> 2:42:25.040 the rise of militant neighborhood assemblies, factory takeovers, and intense 2:42:25.040 --> 2:42:29.080 street protests. What was happened in Argentina was a direct 2:42:29.120 --> 2:42:31.720 result of more than two decades of so called free 2:42:31.760 --> 2:42:36.720 market reforms and structural adjustment programs. These policies had left 2:42:36.720 --> 2:42:41.199 the economy in ruins, with poverty and unemployment levels soaring. 2:42:41.879 --> 2:42:44.640 By the time the crisis hit, poverty had shot up 2:42:44.640 --> 2:42:48.760 from thirty one percent to fifty three percent, and unemployment 2:42:48.879 --> 2:42:51.840 had jumped to twenty one point four percent, nearly a 2:42:51.959 --> 2:43:04.040 quarter of the country's population. Out of this chaos came 2:43:04.080 --> 2:43:08.480 the Pictaros, a new movement of unemployed workers who turned 2:43:08.480 --> 2:43:09.400 their anger. 2:43:09.240 --> 2:43:10.240 Into direct action. 2:43:11.160 --> 2:43:15.000 They didn't just march in protest, they blocked roads demanding 2:43:15.120 --> 2:43:18.440 work and dignity. But what said the Picto's apart from 2:43:18.480 --> 2:43:23.199 traditional unions was they commitments to horizontal organizing and direct action. 2:43:24.200 --> 2:43:26.920 They knew that those unions didn't represent them, and they 2:43:26.920 --> 2:43:30.560 wanted something more than just jobs. They wanted dignity, and 2:43:30.600 --> 2:43:34.120 they wanted us say in how society was run. One 2:43:34.160 --> 2:43:36.640 of the voices from this movement, a woman from the 2:43:36.680 --> 2:43:40.360 Solano neighborhood in Buenos Aires, captured the spirit when she said, 2:43:40.959 --> 2:43:43.080 I dream of my children finding a way of life 2:43:43.080 --> 2:43:46.440 here away from the despair the system gives us. We're 2:43:46.480 --> 2:43:52.120 building something new. Politics without political parties, end code. The 2:43:52.160 --> 2:43:55.920 Pictaro's didn't just demand employment, they wanted meaningful work. 2:43:56.000 --> 2:43:58.280 They gave them control over their lives. 2:43:58.680 --> 2:44:00.400 They weren't looking to be fooled by back into the 2:44:00.440 --> 2:44:03.600 capitalist system that had failed them. Instead, they called themselves 2:44:03.680 --> 2:44:07.440 autonomous workers in envisionous society where people took charge their 2:44:07.440 --> 2:44:12.199 communities and their futures. And then came December two thousand 2:44:12.200 --> 2:44:15.920 and one. On the nineteenth, the crisis hit a boiling point. 2:44:16.280 --> 2:44:20.000 All across the country. People took to the streets, unemployed workers, 2:44:20.320 --> 2:44:24.480 middle class families, and whole neighborhoods They were united in 2:44:24.520 --> 2:44:28.240 their demands an end to the government's economic policies and 2:44:28.280 --> 2:44:31.520 the resignation of the deeply unpopular President, Fernando de la Rua. 2:44:32.080 --> 2:44:35.840 After two days of street battles with police, government collapsed. 2:44:36.560 --> 2:44:40.199 In the wake of this upheaval. Neighborhood assemblies popped up everywhere, 2:44:40.560 --> 2:44:45.320 and the pictaros intensified their efforts. Millions of workers across 2:44:45.400 --> 2:44:49.240 Argentina joined a general strike. In Protasius alone, over a 2:44:49.280 --> 2:44:53.160 million people defied a government imposed state of emergency flood 2:44:53.160 --> 2:44:56.320 in the streets in protest. It wasn't just about events 2:44:56.320 --> 2:45:00.760 and frustration with what reclaiming their power. In a way, 2:45:00.800 --> 2:45:04.520 the ideas of anarchism, self management, the centralization, and direct 2:45:04.560 --> 2:45:08.600 action were be input into practice on a truly massive scale, 2:45:09.040 --> 2:45:12.160 even though anarchist groups themselves didn't necessarily lead the charge. 2:45:13.320 --> 2:45:15.840 The fight wasn't just on the streets, though, It had 2:45:15.840 --> 2:45:18.440 to happen in the factories, the fields, across all the 2:45:18.520 --> 2:45:22.480 sectors of society. They couldn't just remove politicians. They had 2:45:22.480 --> 2:45:25.720 to dismantle the entire system of exploitation and replace it 2:45:25.800 --> 2:45:28.960 with something radically different. A key piece of this puzzle 2:45:29.080 --> 2:45:33.240 was the rise of the fabricas, recuperatas, or reclaim factories. 2:45:33.760 --> 2:45:36.440 These takeovers didn't start with the two thousand one uprising, though. 2:45:36.800 --> 2:45:40.160 The first occupation happened back in nineteen ninety six, when 2:45:40.160 --> 2:45:42.680 workers in a cool storage plant to control after the 2:45:42.720 --> 2:45:47.400 bosses abandoned it. More factories followed suit, with workers stepping 2:45:47.440 --> 2:45:50.240 in with an owner's fled But they weren't even trying 2:45:50.280 --> 2:45:53.760 to launch an offensive against capitalism. They were simply trying 2:45:53.800 --> 2:45:57.119 to survive, to hold onto their livelihoods and an economy 2:45:57.160 --> 2:45:59.880 that had pushed them to the edge. By the time 2:46:00.120 --> 2:46:03.400 of the Argentine Uprising in December two thousand and one, 2:46:04.040 --> 2:46:07.080 over one hundred and seventy factories had been reclaimed, with 2:46:07.200 --> 2:46:10.320 some ten thousand workers taking part in this new form 2:46:10.320 --> 2:46:14.959 of collective labor. The message was clear, when the bosses leave, 2:46:15.440 --> 2:46:17.840 the workers are more than capable of keeping things running. 2:46:18.959 --> 2:46:21.280 In these reclaimed factories, they got rid of the traditional 2:46:21.360 --> 2:46:25.600 management hierarchies and made collective decisions and shared income equally. 2:46:26.320 --> 2:46:30.200 It was a living example of one potential way society 2:46:30.200 --> 2:46:34.160 could function without the capitalist class. In the midst of 2:46:34.200 --> 2:46:38.000 the Argentine economic collaps these workers didn't just resist, they 2:46:38.040 --> 2:46:43.920 were also producing, hence their banner of occupy resistar prosir, 2:46:44.560 --> 2:46:48.680 Occupy Resist, produce the newest possible, to not just fight, 2:46:48.840 --> 2:46:50.880 but to build something new from the ground up, not 2:46:50.959 --> 2:46:53.879 just to survive, but to lay the foundations for a 2:46:53.920 --> 2:46:58.320 new society. The cries of kissevayan totros or basically out 2:46:58.360 --> 2:47:02.000 with all of them called the widespread dissolution with the 2:47:02.200 --> 2:47:07.800 entire political class. But the sentiment needed to be transformed 2:47:07.800 --> 2:47:12.320 into something more substantial, a proper political framework to drive 2:47:12.360 --> 2:47:16.640 the momentum forward. But it's also into this framework, this 2:47:16.959 --> 2:47:20.960 potentially anarchist framework wasn't fully developed among the population at 2:47:20.959 --> 2:47:23.840 the time. There were some comrades who were working towards 2:47:23.920 --> 2:47:26.959 bill in such a framework, but much of the movement, 2:47:27.680 --> 2:47:31.080 particularly of the left, were focused on elections as a 2:47:31.120 --> 2:47:35.160 way forward. The logic was simple. A left leading government 2:47:35.160 --> 2:47:38.240 could introduce policies to a leeviy the situation and prevent 2:47:38.280 --> 2:47:42.000 the open repression of popular movements. What does this really achieve. 2:47:42.640 --> 2:47:44.720 It risked the transfer and of the struggle from the streets, 2:47:44.760 --> 2:47:47.600 from the workplaces, from the hands of the people into 2:47:47.640 --> 2:47:50.560 the hands of a new set of politicians, shifting the 2:47:50.560 --> 2:47:53.600 focus from the masses to a few leaders operating within 2:47:53.720 --> 2:47:59.720 clearly capitalist institutions. The elections were not important. The fight 2:47:59.800 --> 2:48:03.040 was about winning seats in the government, and that needed 2:48:03.040 --> 2:48:05.720 to be understood. The fighter was about building a true 2:48:05.760 --> 2:48:09.440 popular power. Kiss if I am totos out with all 2:48:09.440 --> 2:48:12.720 of them rejected not just individuals, but the entire political, 2:48:12.800 --> 2:48:16.920 social and economic power structures. Even though the Argentine people 2:48:16.920 --> 2:48:19.320 will not identify and as anarchists, they will apply on 2:48:19.480 --> 2:48:23.440 anarchist principles in many aspects of their struggles, just like 2:48:23.480 --> 2:48:25.920 the Appatistas and Chiappas who ruse up in nineteen twenty 2:48:25.920 --> 2:48:30.199 fourth Rally and cry yabasta or enough already. The Argentine 2:48:30.280 --> 2:48:35.359 uprising was a clear rejection of state power and capitalism. 2:48:35.840 --> 2:48:37.960 Votes can't last forever, but they could plant the seat 2:48:38.000 --> 2:48:41.440 of a new society, one built from below. But the 2:48:41.440 --> 2:48:44.600 movement was torn between the two approaches of whether factory 2:48:44.640 --> 2:48:47.320 should be managed by workers under state ownership or they 2:48:47.360 --> 2:48:50.840 should be completely worker owned. Some argue the demanding expropriation 2:48:50.879 --> 2:48:53.480 why the state wasn't a real solution within a capitalist framework, 2:48:53.959 --> 2:48:56.320 because the state itself was responsible for the conditions they 2:48:56.400 --> 2:48:59.880 found themselves in. But even though they argue the true 2:49:00.040 --> 2:49:02.680 because power came from the workers controlling their own production. 2:49:03.280 --> 2:49:07.560 On the flip side, cooperatives don't really address the deeper 2:49:07.600 --> 2:49:12.360 issues of capitalism. Cooperativism does an inherently challenge capitalist relations 2:49:12.400 --> 2:49:16.480 of production, just tinkers with the surface issues like monopolies, 2:49:16.879 --> 2:49:20.920 internal structures, and competition. Building a network of cooperatives can 2:49:20.959 --> 2:49:23.720 be valuable, but it's not going to create a subsystem 2:49:23.800 --> 2:49:28.279 capable of top len capitalism. Anarchism, and specifically anarchist communist 2:49:28.360 --> 2:49:33.520 ideas propose something far more transformative. Abortion all forms of 2:49:33.600 --> 2:49:37.520 farwer exercised by minority, whether the bourgeoisie or the state, 2:49:38.200 --> 2:49:41.160 assuming control of not just factories and fields, but all 2:49:41.160 --> 2:49:44.320 of society. It's not a choice between cooperatives or state 2:49:44.360 --> 2:49:48.240 managed workplaces. It's about creating conditions for all workers and 2:49:48.280 --> 2:49:52.440 all people to self organize, and such reforms such as 2:49:52.480 --> 2:49:56.720 reforms for workers to have control of their workplaces merely steps. 2:49:57.000 --> 2:50:01.160 It's what a much larger goal should be kept in 2:50:01.160 --> 2:50:05.800 in that struggle. These experiences in this history in Argentina 2:50:05.840 --> 2:50:09.680 shows us that anarchist ideas are not just lofty dreams. 2:50:10.000 --> 2:50:12.080 They grounded in real struggles of working people. 2:50:12.280 --> 2:50:17.320 Consciously or unconsciously proven that a society without bosses, managers 2:50:17.360 --> 2:50:21.280 and expectation is possible. Every social struggle, every revolutionary action, 2:50:21.360 --> 2:50:26.240 is another step towards building that world. Through these movements, 2:50:26.240 --> 2:50:29.039 through these actions, through these struggles, we can see the 2:50:29.040 --> 2:50:32.160 foundation of a new society. And to the people of 2:50:32.240 --> 2:50:36.120 Argentina who now face the rule of a new right 2:50:36.160 --> 2:50:40.200 way menace employees, to stand up and say, once again, 2:50:40.920 --> 2:50:44.879 kisevan Toros out with all of them, all power to 2:50:44.920 --> 2:50:45.440 all the people. 2:50:46.680 --> 2:50:47.000 Peace. 2:50:49.680 --> 2:50:50.320 Hey, We'll be. 2:50:50.280 --> 2:50:53.640 Back Monday with more episodes every week from now until 2:50:53.640 --> 2:50:54.800 the heat death of the universe. 2:50:55.240 --> 2:50:57.720 It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 2:50:57.920 --> 2:51:00.920 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 2:51:01.040 --> 2:51:03.600 cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 2:51:03.640 --> 2:51:07.680 iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 2:51:08.000 --> 2:51:09.959 You can now find sources for It Could Happen here 2:51:09.959 --> 2:51:12.959 listed directly in episode descriptions. 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