1
00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:03,160
Speaker 1: Media.

2
00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:05,720
Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

3
00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:09,400
Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

4
00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,639
Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

5
00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,479
Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

6
00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:18,959
Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

7
00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:20,919
Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

8
00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:22,720
Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

9
00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:24,680
Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

10
00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,120
Speaker 3: Welcome to it could happen here. It is a beautiful

11
00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,160
Speaker 3: sunny day in Atlanta, Georgia, which means I think they're

12
00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,760
Speaker 3: all lying about the weather. They said this hurricane was

13
00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,320
Speaker 3: going to come, and I'm fine, I don't believe them.

14
00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,480
Speaker 3: It's all fake. Joined with me today is Mia Wong.

15
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:44,640
Speaker 3: I'm Garrison Davis. Welcome di could happen here?

16
00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:46,760
Speaker 4: Welcome man, It's hey.

17
00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,080
Speaker 5: Look it's cloudy in Portland, so clearly they were telling

18
00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:49,479
Speaker 5: the truth.

19
00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:51,519
Speaker 4: I don't know what's going on in your reality, but.

20
00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,000
Speaker 3: I can't believe that the Republicans have hijacked the weather

21
00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,720
Speaker 3: Control Matrix and are aiming it at Portland, Oregon to

22
00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:02,120
Speaker 3: wipe it off the map, to give Oregon to give

23
00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,679
Speaker 3: Horicans vote to Donald Trump in the next election.

24
00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,880
Speaker 5: You know, one of my foundational early political memories was

25
00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,200
Speaker 5: discovering that, like the mid twenty tens era mayor of

26
00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,840
Speaker 5: Ankara thought that NATO had an earthquake machine that they

27
00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,040
Speaker 5: were setting off off the coast of Turkey in order

28
00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,000
Speaker 5: to cause namies during hurricane season, so that because so deep,

29
00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:21,600
Speaker 5: NATO could destroy the Turkish economy.

30
00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:22,600
Speaker 3: And I hope so now.

31
00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:23,720
Speaker 4: We thought that was very funny.

32
00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:28,800
Speaker 5: And now every single like major politician did America believe

33
00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:30,240
Speaker 5: some shit like that now.

34
00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,840
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, everyone has something, not everyone

35
00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,560
Speaker 3: has the same thing, but everyone has something crazy that

36
00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:38,800
Speaker 3: they believe. And that's what we're talking about here today.

37
00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,240
Speaker 3: So oh boy, it is. It has gotten bad, folks.

38
00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:42,720
Speaker 6: Yeah.

39
00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,600
Speaker 3: As Hurricane Helene and Hurricane Milton brought widespread devastation to

40
00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,840
Speaker 3: the southeastern United States, politicians, TV anchors, and influencers have

41
00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,800
Speaker 3: been trying to weaponize the tragedy and the disaster relief

42
00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:58,800
Speaker 3: effort for their own partisan electoral gain, particularly via the

43
00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,920
Speaker 3: use of disinformation. Now, while the government's response to Hurricane

44
00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:07,400
Speaker 3: Helene can certainly be criticized, bad fight attacks originating from

45
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,400
Speaker 3: the far right have spread wildly online and have been

46
00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,760
Speaker 3: boosted by Trump and Fox News. Many of these focus

47
00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,600
Speaker 3: on the Federal Emergency Management Agency, or FEMA, with some

48
00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,880
Speaker 3: of them connecting to like decades old conspiracy theories about

49
00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,320
Speaker 3: the agency. Yeah, so this episode, we're going to go

50
00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,440
Speaker 3: over some of the conspiracy theories and misinformation circulating about

51
00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,160
Speaker 3: these hurricanes, but not necessarily to like debunk them, because like,

52
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:34,680
Speaker 3: I know who's listening to this, but I think it's

53
00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,799
Speaker 3: actually more helpful to place them into the larger tapestry

54
00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,760
Speaker 3: of conspiracy thinking leading into the election and discuss how

55
00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,880
Speaker 3: modern misinformation has presented a whole new problem that simple

56
00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,240
Speaker 3: fact checks aren't equipped to handle.

57
00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,640
Speaker 5: Hey, Garrison, you are very confident about that, but I

58
00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,760
Speaker 5: personally know leftists who I have been friends with who

59
00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,680
Speaker 5: believe the weather weapons shit. So you never know.

60
00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,359
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I do believe that fact checks aren't

61
00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,040
Speaker 3: going to be the main solution here.

62
00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,160
Speaker 5: Oh no, they're not gonna help that. I'm just saying, Look,

63
00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,200
Speaker 5: there are believers everywhere for the eyes to see.

64
00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,040
Speaker 3: It's great, That's kind of what I'm saying here. Yeah, Now,

65
00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:17,040
Speaker 3: let's start by talking about Donald Trump and FEMA. Oh God,

66
00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,200
Speaker 3: So some of the misinformation spreading about FEMA right now

67
00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,799
Speaker 3: includes the claim that the agency is only providing seven

68
00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,640
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty dollars in aid to individuals affected by

69
00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,359
Speaker 3: Hurricane Helene, when actually the seven hundred and fifty dollars

70
00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,120
Speaker 3: payments are just the initial really funds to help with

71
00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,880
Speaker 3: immediate needs. There's also been claims that FEMA only issues

72
00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,040
Speaker 3: loans and any relief money received has to be paid back.

73
00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,840
Speaker 3: This isn't true. Only in rare cases when someone receives

74
00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,120
Speaker 3: duplicate funds from FEMA and insurance does money have to

75
00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,800
Speaker 3: be returned to FEMA. There's also been claims that if

76
00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,560
Speaker 3: victims fail to pay back FEMA, they will then seize

77
00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,080
Speaker 3: your property. This is also falls more on this later now.

78
00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,360
Speaker 3: A TikTok video with over a million views claimed that

79
00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:04,520
Speaker 3: FEMA is raiding people's homes to seize supplies. This isn't true.

80
00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:09,840
Speaker 3: FEMA doesn't raid people's healths. On a more racist note,

81
00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,920
Speaker 3: it's claimed that FEMA has run out of money for

82
00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:17,040
Speaker 3: hurricane victims because Kamala spent billions of FEMA dollars on

83
00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:21,480
Speaker 3: housing for illegal immigrants. At a campaign rally, Donald Trump said,

84
00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,840
Speaker 3: and I'm not going to do the voice the Harris

85
00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,280
Speaker 3: Biden administration says they don't have money because they spent

86
00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,880
Speaker 3: it all on illegal immigrants. They stole the FEMA money,

87
00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,120
Speaker 3: just like they stole it from a bank so that

88
00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,240
Speaker 3: they could give it to their illegal immigrants, unquote. This

89
00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,279
Speaker 3: lie was also shared by Sean Hannity on Fox News,

90
00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,279
Speaker 3: and even when confronted with facts that discredit this claim,

91
00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,880
Speaker 3: commentators on Fox still insist that even though it's not

92
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,320
Speaker 3: technically true, it still feels true.

93
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,800
Speaker 7: It may not be actually true that FEMA resources that

94
00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,080
Speaker 7: could have been available in North Carolina have been given

95
00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,000
Speaker 7: to migrants, but there's no question about the broad orientation

96
00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,599
Speaker 7: of FEMA the Biden Harris administration, which has been to

97
00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,760
Speaker 7: channel huge amounts of money to communities and to non

98
00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,280
Speaker 7: governmental organizations to help with the massive influx of migrants

99
00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:10,760
Speaker 7: that they themselves have created.

100
00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,040
Speaker 5: And this is a fun one too, because like there

101
00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,800
Speaker 5: is FEMA underfunding. But the reason there's FEMA underfunding is

102
00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:18,839
Speaker 5: it Republicans keep voting not to give it more money.

103
00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,440
Speaker 3: Yes, which like oh boy, I mean again, like this

104
00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,520
Speaker 3: is a big part of the Republican strategy just making

105
00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,400
Speaker 3: life worse for everybody so that everyone's more angry so

106
00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,320
Speaker 3: that people will vote Republican. And that's that is the

107
00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,160
Speaker 3: strategy they want, because as long as they're as long

108
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,080
Speaker 3: as their base is doing badly and like upset and angry,

109
00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:39,880
Speaker 3: they will find some way to blame it on the

110
00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,640
Speaker 3: opposition and then vote in Republican. This has been the

111
00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,599
Speaker 3: conservative governmental strategy for decades.

112
00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:47,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, do all the terrible stuff and then blame the

113
00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,040
Speaker 5: stuff that you did on immigrants, which, yeah, good times,

114
00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,360
Speaker 5: love this country, great stuff happening.

115
00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,599
Speaker 3: A famously reliable strategy. Trump's also lied about the governor

116
00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,920
Speaker 3: of Georgia not being able to get in contact with

117
00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:03,600
Speaker 3: President Biden coordinate disaster relief efforts, when in fact they

118
00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,000
Speaker 3: had spoken to day prior. Trump also claimed that the

119
00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,040
Speaker 3: federal government and the North Carolina Democratic governor have been

120
00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,279
Speaker 3: quote going out of their way to not help people

121
00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:17,120
Speaker 3: in Republican areas unquote. This is also completely false that

122
00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:19,720
Speaker 3: there were more isolated areas in North Carolina that were

123
00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,880
Speaker 3: harder to reach, but people are trying to get there,

124
00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,480
Speaker 3: and in fact, some of the hardest reach areas were

125
00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,080
Speaker 3: actually immigrant communities who were too scared to like actually

126
00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,800
Speaker 3: ask for federal help out of fear they would be deported.

127
00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,560
Speaker 3: So like, yes, there actually is people really struggling to

128
00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,440
Speaker 3: get a relief, but it's not by and large your

129
00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:42,920
Speaker 3: Trump voters. Like again, certainly the relief efforts managed by

130
00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,560
Speaker 3: the government have had their fair share of problems. People

131
00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,680
Speaker 3: are not getting all the help they need. But this

132
00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,880
Speaker 3: is not a conspiracy by the Democratic governor to deprive

133
00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,400
Speaker 3: Republicans of hurricane relief. Like, that's not true. Now, Trump's

134
00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,360
Speaker 3: falsehoods about the hurricane and the disaster response in service

135
00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,719
Speaker 3: of his reelection campaign have signaled that it's aok for

136
00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:06,240
Speaker 3: Republicans to spread all manner of hurricane conspiracy theories targeting

137
00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,920
Speaker 3: the federal government. Oh boy, and this is where we're

138
00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,760
Speaker 3: gonna get into the newest conspiracy theory sweeping the nation,

139
00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,800
Speaker 3: that the government controls the weather, all of the weather,

140
00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:23,560
Speaker 3: especially hurricanes. Now, this is not a new conspiracy theory.

141
00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,440
Speaker 4: Certainly, I'm so sick of the weather weapon shit.

142
00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,640
Speaker 3: But the fact that we have sitting congressman, including Mantorie

143
00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,440
Speaker 3: Taylor Green from Georgia, who is riding this thing like

144
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,600
Speaker 3: a fucking horse is a little bit wild. She has

145
00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,440
Speaker 3: been posting NonStop the past week about how quote unquote

146
00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:45,480
Speaker 3: they control the weather. I wonder what they means. She

147
00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,440
Speaker 3: has been attributing the weather modification to a few different agencies,

148
00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,520
Speaker 3: including the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

149
00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:58,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, sure of sure, no one's doing this, like comeine.

150
00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,280
Speaker 3: She has posted me that prove that they're controlling the

151
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:07,000
Speaker 3: weather because they list a whole bunch of weather modification patents. Now,

152
00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,120
Speaker 3: the funny thing is is that most of these patents

153
00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,440
Speaker 3: are like over one hundred years old, if many of

154
00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:16,239
Speaker 3: them are expired. Yeah, these patents contain plans to drop

155
00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:20,880
Speaker 3: water from balloons to produce rain. That's the weather modification

156
00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,360
Speaker 3: she's talking about. She included a patent that includes like

157
00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,160
Speaker 3: a way to use like airplane exhaust to blow away

158
00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,240
Speaker 3: poison gas from like trenches. That's chemtrails, Garrison, it's chemtrails.

159
00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,240
Speaker 3: It's absurd. All of these things are like are like

160
00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:39,079
Speaker 3: ancient patents and like weather modification is a real thing technically,

161
00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,320
Speaker 3: like we have been trying to alter the weather. One

162
00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,800
Speaker 3: of the pointed to like real technologies is cloud seating.

163
00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,760
Speaker 3: Cloud seating is a small scale technology to alter clouds precipitation,

164
00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,440
Speaker 3: usually to increase the cloud's ability to produce localized rain.

165
00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:57,040
Speaker 3: By adding ice or condensation nuclei into the forming clouds.

166
00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:01,680
Speaker 3: This helps areas suffering from drought and low Reall cloud

167
00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:06,439
Speaker 3: seating has been jumped upon by Republican conspiracy theorists as

168
00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:10,000
Speaker 3: proof that the government is actually engaging in a massive

169
00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:15,280
Speaker 3: weather control operation, including to produce hurricanes. Now, hurricanes are

170
00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:19,520
Speaker 3: famously quite large, and it is impossible to determine the

171
00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,160
Speaker 3: path or cause one to happen. This just simply isn't true.

172
00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I mean the largest scale like attempts to

173
00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,959
Speaker 5: manipulate whether that humanity has ever done like on purpose

174
00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,840
Speaker 5: that wasn't global warming was from two thousand and eight

175
00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,839
Speaker 5: Olympics in Beijing, and it took. It took the entire industrial,

176
00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:42,559
Speaker 5: technological and scientific capacity of a nation of one billion

177
00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:48,000
Speaker 5: people and putting like an unfathomable amount of resources and

178
00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:52,280
Speaker 5: planning and like logistical capability at specifically not making it

179
00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,439
Speaker 5: ran in Beijing for like a fairly small amount of

180
00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,160
Speaker 5: time and lowering the air pollution levels. They barely managed

181
00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,360
Speaker 5: to pull that off, so they they sort of kind

182
00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,680
Speaker 5: of made the weather better in one city for like

183
00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,840
Speaker 5: two weeks. And that took a a level of resource

184
00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:14,120
Speaker 5: coordination like fucking unfathomable, like most human history like that.

185
00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,480
Speaker 3: It's it's it's very challenging to alter the weather. It

186
00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,800
Speaker 3: requires it requires a lot of resources. No, it doesn't,

187
00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:22,120
Speaker 3: it doesn't work very well.

188
00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,840
Speaker 5: Like that's like shut down factories across like half the country,

189
00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,640
Speaker 5: Like it was fiasco, And like these people.

190
00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,120
Speaker 3: Aren't actually like talking about that. They're talking about conspiratorial

191
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,840
Speaker 3: efforts from the federal government's illuminati to to like to

192
00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,360
Speaker 3: like target hurricanes. Yeah, like on certain red states to

193
00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,360
Speaker 3: alter the election. Like that, that's that's really what they're

194
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,840
Speaker 3: talking about. Conspiracy theorists and the right have pointed it

195
00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:50,280
Speaker 3: to HARP University of Alaska Fairbreaks program, not the HARP

196
00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:56,319
Speaker 3: that uses high frequency equipment to study the upper atmosphere.

197
00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:01,120
Speaker 3: According to Reuters, no atmospheric monitoring equipment do not alter

198
00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,000
Speaker 3: the weather. Conspiracy theorists have also targeted Doppler radios and

199
00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:09,280
Speaker 3: next rad basically like radar control systems and radio control

200
00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:13,920
Speaker 3: systems as being used to change weather patterns and cause hurricanes. This,

201
00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,160
Speaker 3: this isn't true. You can't change the weather with a

202
00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,800
Speaker 3: radio or with radar. Again, like we're not debunking this

203
00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,720
Speaker 3: because this is so No, this is so ludicrous, But

204
00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,240
Speaker 3: these are the conspiracy theories that they're invoking, and like

205
00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,520
Speaker 3: and like Harp, conspiracy theories do go back quite a while.

206
00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,120
Speaker 3: I've seen a few other things talking about like direct

207
00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,640
Speaker 3: energy weapons and lasers from space or lasers from the

208
00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,880
Speaker 3: ground pointed out the atmosphere which caused hurricanes to form.

209
00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,880
Speaker 3: This also isn't real. We cannot cause a hurricane deform.

210
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:44,720
Speaker 3: It's it's too big.

211
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:46,960
Speaker 5: And the thing about this stuff is like these are

212
00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,679
Speaker 5: all old conspiracies, right, but it's like these are things

213
00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:51,400
Speaker 5: that used to be like like you would you would

214
00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,440
Speaker 5: walk into a room full of guys who believe that

215
00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,040
Speaker 5: nine to eleven was staged with holograms and that MK

216
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,679
Speaker 5: all to successfully produced mind control that was originally developed

217
00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,840
Speaker 5: by North Korea, and those people would laugh the like

218
00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,400
Speaker 5: harp idiots out of the room. Yeah, it was a

219
00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:09,920
Speaker 5: conspiracy scene by other conspiracy theorists as like too obviously bullshit,

220
00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:11,480
Speaker 5: Like do you.

221
00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:13,000
Speaker 3: Know what isn't bullshit? Meya?

222
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,760
Speaker 4: Is it the product of services that support this podcast?

223
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:16,440
Speaker 3: It sure is.

224
00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,320
Speaker 5: The MyPillow guy, you try to sell gold, now here

225
00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:32,200
Speaker 5: we go get your gold. All right, we are back.

226
00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,239
Speaker 5: But yes, these conspiracy theories.

227
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,760
Speaker 3: Have existed for a long time talking about some degree

228
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,840
Speaker 3: of the government's ability to influence natural disasters and like

229
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,480
Speaker 3: big weather events. People have tried to blame forest fires

230
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:47,959
Speaker 3: on lasers. Specifically the Maui fires from a few years ago,

231
00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:52,040
Speaker 3: they said were actually caused by direct energy weapons to

232
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:53,960
Speaker 3: get people to flee their land so that it could

233
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,880
Speaker 3: be seized by the federal government. All this kind of stuff. Now,

234
00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,880
Speaker 3: like some of them also point to like geo engineering, right,

235
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:04,199
Speaker 3: they say that although geoengineering is said to conduct climate change,

236
00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:09,760
Speaker 3: it actually causes climate change. Geoengineering there's technically a few forms,

237
00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,560
Speaker 3: but the one that we're talking about basically like injects

238
00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:16,440
Speaker 3: aricized chemicals into the atmosphere to reflect some light. Obviously

239
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:20,559
Speaker 3: reflecting some lights, not gonna make a hurricane worse, but whatever.

240
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,800
Speaker 3: So this has gotten really bad. This has taken over

241
00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,960
Speaker 3: a significant portion of the online right to the point

242
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,400
Speaker 3: that even people like Dysantis are having to come out

243
00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,320
Speaker 3: and say, hey, guys, no, this that this isn't real.

244
00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,360
Speaker 3: In a press conference, Dysantis claimed that there are in

245
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,120
Speaker 3: fact weather conspiracies quote on both sides.

246
00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,880
Speaker 4: Uh huh, yeah. By one friend.

247
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,199
Speaker 3: You kind of have some people who think the government

248
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,840
Speaker 3: can do this, and others think it's because of fossil

249
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,040
Speaker 3: fuels unquote.

250
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:49,520
Speaker 4: Oh my fucking guy.

251
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:56,480
Speaker 3: Has communication director later reiterated the claim, saying, quote, the

252
00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,599
Speaker 3: government controls the other crowd and the global warming and

253
00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,960
Speaker 3: climate change alarmists are two sides of the same coin,

254
00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:09,160
Speaker 3: unscientific agenda, motivated and unhelpful. Following a storm, weather is

255
00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:14,280
Speaker 3: weather unquote Jesus Christ. Even in their refutation of the

256
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,280
Speaker 3: weather controlling conspiracies, they cannot help but dip into some

257
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,760
Speaker 3: climate denial conspiracies. We love to see it.

258
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:20,800
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

259
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:25,160
Speaker 3: Now I think like hurricanes and natural disasters are uniquely

260
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,360
Speaker 3: susceptible to misinformation. During times of crisis, people try to

261
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,720
Speaker 3: search for information to relieve stress, and they often don't

262
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:37,080
Speaker 3: take the extra time to verify said information. Whenever a

263
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,760
Speaker 3: new natural disaster strikes, old footage and videos circulate, being

264
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,360
Speaker 3: passed off as current events. Conversations and arguments about climate

265
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,280
Speaker 3: change and climate denial also spark during natural disasters, leading

266
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,280
Speaker 3: to a surge of climate change conspiracy theories. While this

267
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,520
Speaker 3: is nothing new, the way people are getting information is

268
00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:00,520
Speaker 3: changing with the increased use of AI chat bought personal

269
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:06,560
Speaker 3: assistance and image generation. There was this TikTok trend ahead

270
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:11,040
Speaker 3: of Hurricane Milton where you ask in Amazon Alexa what

271
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,480
Speaker 3: the result of the hurricane was going to be before

272
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,280
Speaker 3: it hit landfall. I'm gonna play this video that has

273
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,840
Speaker 3: over two million views on Twitter.

274
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:24,880
Speaker 8: Alexa how many laves were lost during Hurricane Milton. Overall?

275
00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,720
Speaker 8: Extreme Hurricane Milton caused twenty one point three billion dollars

276
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,840
Speaker 8: in damages and caused two hundred and sixty two fatalities

277
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:37,200
Speaker 8: October eighth, twenty twenty four, twelve to fifteen pm Central Time.

278
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:43,280
Speaker 3: Very scary now. This other video has over seven hundred

279
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,560
Speaker 3: and fifty thousand views on TikTok Alexa.

280
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,360
Speaker 9: What kind of hurricane is Hurricane Milton?

281
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,400
Speaker 8: From fandom dot com. Hurricane Milton was an extremely powerful

282
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,360
Speaker 8: Category five hurricane that caused widespread damage across its path

283
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:05,040
Speaker 8: in October four. They've already predicted the outcome from your wife.

284
00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:05,800
Speaker 6: So.

285
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,960
Speaker 3: That one may have given you a hint about what's

286
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,040
Speaker 3: going on here. Obviously, Alexa doesn't know the future, nor

287
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,920
Speaker 3: has the government pre programmed data about It's a secret

288
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,440
Speaker 3: weather control program into your eco device. Alexa just pulls

289
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,640
Speaker 3: from information it finds online, in this case fandom dot

290
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:32,320
Speaker 3: com hypothetical hurricanes wiki Are You Fucking? Which is a

291
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:37,680
Speaker 3: wiki which is a wiki based comprehensive database of hypothetical

292
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:42,280
Speaker 3: tropical cyclone articles that anyone can edite.

293
00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,320
Speaker 5: You know, I said, I said as a I said

294
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:45,920
Speaker 5: as a joke a couple of years ago that we

295
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,280
Speaker 5: were about two years out from the QAnon people discovering

296
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,600
Speaker 5: the plot of metal gear solid and believing it was real.

297
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,840
Speaker 5: But like, we're so close to that now we are

298
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,520
Speaker 5: two months out from them from from an AI telling

299
00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:00,560
Speaker 5: them the plot of metal gear solid and then believing

300
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,240
Speaker 5: the patriots secretly control the government.

301
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:06,800
Speaker 3: They're quoting from a fandom wiki on fake hurricanes that

302
00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,720
Speaker 3: people make for fun, and it can be manipulated in

303
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,960
Speaker 3: the lead up to a hurricane specifically to cause this

304
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,480
Speaker 3: type of reaction. Again, like as a bit right, it's

305
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:19,160
Speaker 3: absurd now to go even further into this AI singularity.

306
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:19,640
Speaker 3: Hell hole.

307
00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:20,240
Speaker 4: Oh no.

308
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,240
Speaker 3: A Twitter user tried to debunk that first video I played,

309
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:27,000
Speaker 3: predicting the death toll. In the replies, this other user wrote, quote,

310
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,960
Speaker 3: there was a Hurricane Milton in the year two thousand.

311
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,000
Speaker 3: Please before you post, at least try to fact check

312
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:41,520
Speaker 3: with Groc unquote. They include a Grock AI screenshot that reads, quote,

313
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,200
Speaker 3: the name Milton has been used for one hurricane in

314
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,919
Speaker 3: the Atlantic basin. Hurricane Milton occurred in two thousand. However,

315
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,359
Speaker 3: for the twenty twenty four hurricane season, there was another

316
00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,960
Speaker 3: hurricane Milton. Thinking it the second time this name has

317
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:54,720
Speaker 3: been used for an Atlantic hurricane.

318
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:56,000
Speaker 10: Unquote.

319
00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:01,679
Speaker 3: So in argument then ensued about which AI is wrecked quote.

320
00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,800
Speaker 3: Grock and chat GPT disagree on the existence of a

321
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,080
Speaker 3: prior hurricane Milton. Groc says, prior to the twenty twenty

322
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,119
Speaker 3: four hurricane season, there were no hurricanes named Milton in

323
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:17,200
Speaker 3: the Atlantic. Next, I asked chat GPT Hurricane Milton, which

324
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,640
Speaker 3: occurd in the year nineteen ninety caused significant damage, particularly

325
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,040
Speaker 3: in Mexico where it made landfall. I asked chat GPT

326
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,600
Speaker 3: a second time. Was there a Milton hurricane in two thousand?

327
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,199
Speaker 3: Chat GPT said, yes, there was a Hurricane Milton in

328
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,600
Speaker 3: two thousand. It formed in the Eastern Pacific in late December.

329
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:40,720
Speaker 3: You know, another person replied, saying, Grock states a two

330
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:45,600
Speaker 3: thousand hurricane named Milton struck struck Nicaragua in two thousand,

331
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,320
Speaker 3: but it doesn't show up on the National Weather Services

332
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:53,960
Speaker 3: hurricane tracking charts for two thousand unquote. Very curious. It's insane.

333
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,800
Speaker 3: It's insane. These people are using chat, GPT, and grock

334
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,880
Speaker 3: ai as search engines, and when they hallucinate to take data,

335
00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,679
Speaker 3: they're alleging some kind of conspiracy theory to suppress data

336
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,840
Speaker 3: on a previous hurricane Milton, I mean, and it's also

337
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,600
Speaker 3: just worse, like having like this person condescend, being like,

338
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,480
Speaker 3: please before you post, try to fact check with grok.

339
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:16,800
Speaker 3: You're like, what the fuck are you talking about? Groc

340
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:21,040
Speaker 3: is a comedy AI chatbot that's going to generate you

341
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,080
Speaker 3: like a nonsense response. It's not a fact checking tool,

342
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,280
Speaker 3: it's not even a search engine. They're just hallucinating data

343
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 3: that people are then passing off as real information.

344
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,280
Speaker 5: I think I kind of feel for these people in

345
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,280
Speaker 5: the sense that, like, if you live through the twenty tens,

346
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:38,800
Speaker 5: the thing that you were able to do, and that

347
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:40,840
Speaker 5: you were trained to do, was that you had a question,

348
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:42,880
Speaker 5: you would type it into Google and sometimes it would

349
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:43,720
Speaker 5: give you the right answer.

350
00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:44,040
Speaker 9: Yeah.

351
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:44,440
Speaker 4: Right.

352
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:49,119
Speaker 5: But now it's like a machine has been created that

353
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,639
Speaker 5: answers to question. What if Google never gave you the

354
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,280
Speaker 5: correct answer. And all of these people have been trained

355
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,399
Speaker 5: that they can put this into the Internet and it

356
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,239
Speaker 5: will give them the correct answer, except now we have

357
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,320
Speaker 5: a machine that destories the entire Amazon every single second

358
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,280
Speaker 5: in order to generate the wrong answer.

359
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,440
Speaker 3: Well, and like specifically because of how these like AI

360
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,679
Speaker 3: systems have been politicized with like Elon Musk and stuff like,

361
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 3: Republicans view it as like a political imperative to use

362
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 3: them over the Democrat leaning like search engines, and people

363
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 3: aren't just turning to AI and Louse search engine, They're

364
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,479
Speaker 3: also using TikTok. They're also now using x as their

365
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,080
Speaker 3: own search engine to get reliable information from users instead

366
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,160
Speaker 3: of actually like verified information online which you can find

367
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 3: with a little bit of searching. So all this is

368
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,199
Speaker 3: creating a quite volatile scenario where misinformation is spreading at

369
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 3: a faster pace than it really ever has before. Now,

370
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,159
Speaker 3: just like in the Springfield pet eating hoax, people on

371
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 3: the right are also spreading AI images as evidence of

372
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 3: how the Biden Harris government failed their disaster relief response

373
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,879
Speaker 3: after Hurricane Helene. The most circulated image is of a

374
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 3: crying little girl wearing a life vest holding a wet puppy.

375
00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,919
Speaker 3: Oh no, she is sitting in a boat surrounded by floodwater.

376
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 3: This is this is pure boomer.

377
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 5: Bait, right like, yeah, you will never regret liking this post.

378
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 3: Rolling Stone traced this AI image to a Trump web

379
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 3: forum called Patriots dot Win Oh God, and like users

380
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,680
Speaker 3: there quickly saw that it was AI, but that didn't

381
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,359
Speaker 3: stop its spread online. The image she got on Twitter

382
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 3: and was spread around after being posted by Utah Senator

383
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 3: Mike Lee, who has a dark mega profile picture. I'm

384
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 3: going to quote from Rolling Stone quote. Laura Lumer called

385
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,920
Speaker 3: the image sad, quote, tweeting from a post by Buzz Patterson,

386
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 3: columnist for the conservative blog Red State, who wrote of

387
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 3: the picture, our government has failed us again. Amy Kamier, RNC,

388
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 3: national committeewoman for the Georgia GOP and the co founder

389
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 3: of Women for Trump, tweeted on Thursday that the image

390
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:54,439
Speaker 3: has been quote seared into my mind unquote. Informed that

391
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,879
Speaker 3: she was not looking at an authentic photo. Kermer doubled down, y'all,

392
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 3: I don't know where this photo came from, and honestly

393
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter. There are people going through much worse

394
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 3: than what is shown in this pic. So I'm leaving

395
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 3: it up because it's the emblematic of the trauma and

396
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 3: the pain people are living through right now. Unquote. Oh

397
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 3: my god. So I get like at this point, people

398
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,920
Speaker 3: know they're spreading fake information, but they're doing it anyway

399
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 3: because it helps them, like they are willing participants in

400
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 3: the complete removal of reality from their constituent's brains. A

401
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 3: mega Twitter account posted this AI photo with the girl

402
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 3: in the puppy and wrote, quote, Kamala doesn't have enough

403
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,199
Speaker 3: money for this child. I can't hate this administration enough unquote,

404
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 3: Oh my god. So do you know what I can't

405
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 3: hate enough?

406
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:42,159
Speaker 11: No?

407
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 10: No?

408
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:42,679
Speaker 11: Uh?

409
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 3: Do you know what I love dearly with my full

410
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 3: my full life force?

411
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 4: Is it products? Services? Yeah?

412
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 3: It's the products and services at support this podcast. Listen

413
00:22:53,520 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 3: to them. We will be right back afterwards. Okay, we

414
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 3: return to conclude our Hurricane Missing Foe run down. So

415
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 3: why is this stuff catching on? Like, what's happening that's

416
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 3: causing this to be so much worse than usual? What's

417
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,679
Speaker 3: going on? Why is this spreading right now? To answer

418
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 3: that question, I'm first going to read a tweet from

419
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 3: Candice Taylor, a Georgia candidate for governor back in twenty

420
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 3: twenty two. Quote, the weather can and is being manipulated.

421
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 3: Wake up, Stop being ignorant or plain stupid. There's no

422
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 3: such thing as coincidence. The most important election in the

423
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 3: history of America is thirty days away. Pray Georgia. Voting

424
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 3: has been compromised, and I don't know if we will

425
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 3: be able to get all of our early voting days in.

426
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 3: Now a hurricane is coming straight for Florida. These two

427
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 3: states are necessary for our Trump victory. No coincidence, So,

428
00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 3: of course this is all a conspiracy to send hurricane

429
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 3: specifically at red states to compromise Trump's ability to win

430
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 3: the election. A woman at a Trump rally explained that

431
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 3: that the government is using cloud seating to make the

432
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 3: hurricanes worse, and that this was pre planned because Amazon

433
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 3: Alexas already knew the information about the hurricanes ahead of time.

434
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 3: Her reasoning was that the hurricane damaged land could be

435
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 3: seized for lithium mining by Kamala Harris's husband, and that

436
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 3: the weather was controlled to rig the election against Trump. Now,

437
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 3: this little tidbit about Kamala's husband that a nice little

438
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 3: anti semitic jab in there. Of course, the Jews are

439
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 3: controlling the weather to do lithium mining. Why not? And

440
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 3: I'm not going to play a short clip from this interview,

441
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 3: not the whole thing, so it's way too long, and

442
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 3: she rambles about cloud seating for longer than I want

443
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 3: to include, but I will include this one short clip.

444
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 12: You're implying that the government made a hurricane stronger to

445
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 12: hurt its own country, the United States of America?

446
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 13: Correct?

447
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 3: And what would be the gain of that when if.

448
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 14: You like, there's been people out there, if they have

449
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,719
Speaker 14: an alexa, I don't know. If you've heard that and

450
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 14: they've asked what caused Milton, you can go on there now.

451
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 14: It's already predicted the number of deaths and the amount

452
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 14: of it's already predicted it On a Google it won't

453
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 14: do that. If you ask it about Halleen, it'll tell

454
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 14: you the government actively used seed clouding. This is before

455
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 14: Helen even happened.

456
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 12: Why would a country want to have a hurricane be

457
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 12: strong and hit its own country.

458
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 14: Because they want to control certain places. And if you're

459
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 14: looking at where the hurricane's going, it's a lot of

460
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 14: red states. If you're looking at the counties in North Carolina,

461
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 14: that were hit. There are all of them. Twenty six

462
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 14: out of twenty eight of those counties were for Trump.

463
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 14: They're doing whatever they can because they can't.

464
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 4: Rig the election, even control the weather.

465
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 3: Yes, very compelling stuff coming out of the Trump rallies.

466
00:25:58,720 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 4: Jesus Christ.

467
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 3: I'm going to quote from a Media Matters article on

468
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 3: hurricane misinformation and conspiracy theories. Quote. A video with over

469
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 3: sixty four thousand views has on screen text that reads

470
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 3: were at the point of revolution. It features a user

471
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 3: speculating for over six minutes that Hurricane Helene was somehow

472
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 3: part of a plan to suppress white Republican votes. Quote.

473
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 3: You might be able to speculate that this is something

474
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 3: to do with the fact that these are largely white

475
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 3: rule Appalachian areas that have been affected. They're looking at

476
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 3: it like this, this election is three weeks from now.

477
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 3: We've just wiped out the complete and total infrastructure for

478
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 3: all these towns and cities. That's great, because guess which

479
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 3: way these towns leaned. They leaned red. These were largely

480
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 3: Republican leading towns. As far as they're concerned, they could

481
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 3: all die and they don't care because that's just one

482
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 3: less vote for Trump. Unquote yes, Asheville, North Carolina, famously

483
00:26:55,359 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 3: famously a Republican town, famously the conservative paradise of Asheville.

484
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 3: Now a lot of these conspiracies also link up to

485
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 3: very old like FEMA conspiracies. Right, there's been conspiracies about

486
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 3: FEMA since like the nineteen eighties. They've been heavily tied

487
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 3: in with the militia movement. The formation of the Oath

488
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 3: Keepers was in response to FEMA concentration conspiracy theories basically

489
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 3: that they'll use natural disasters and FEMA to like round

490
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 3: up patriots to do some kind of new World order,

491
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 3: or that they're gonna use FEMA to seize your land

492
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 3: so then you're gonna be put in a FEMA concentration camp.

493
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 3: Very old conspiracies. Now these have kind of fed into

494
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 3: the current conspiracy matrix regarding the hurricanes. I'm gonna quote

495
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 3: from this one guy on Twitter called the health Ranger. No,

496
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 3: not the health Ranger.

497
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 6: No me.

498
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 3: And do you know who the health Ranger is?

499
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, the health Ranger is is a frequent Alex Jodes guest.

500
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, like an anti vax guy.

501
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 5: And Ale He's a whole thing in in this whole

502
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 5: conspiracy universe.

503
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 3: I hate him so much. He does, and this is

504
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 3: this is what he says about the current hurricanes quote

505
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 3: no in coming intel all caps. FEMA is waiving ungodly

506
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 3: amounts of money at private security firms right now, begging

507
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 3: for security contractors to station at Florida to prevent Floridians

508
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 3: from returning to their homes and businesses after the storm hits.

509
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 3: The evacuation orders are to push people out of Florida

510
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 3: and keep them out. Reportedly, delta force personnel advising FEMA

511
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 3: at the top devising denial of area enforcement plans which

512
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 3: will be enforced at gunpoint if required. I'm told FEMA

513
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 3: is practically panicked to get enough armed personnel on site,

514
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 3: anticipating a tremendous amount of resistance from displaced people who

515
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 3: want to return home to salvage whatever they can. This

516
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 3: is the next step up the escalation ladder as the

517
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 3: federal government wages war against the American people, as we

518
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 3: saw FEMA care bring out in North Carolina, actively hindering

519
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 3: rescue efforts to maximize starvation and death to the people.

520
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 3: Do not escalate. Hold your ground peacefully and firmly. This

521
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 3: looks a lot like a J six style trap to

522
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 3: provoke an insurrection and declare martial law to cancel the election.

523
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 3: Don't play into their hands. Unquote. This unhinged diatribe got

524
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 3: over ten thousand likes and was spread wildly around Twitter.

525
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 3: A few days ago, the Institute for Strategic Dialogue posted

526
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 3: an article documenting this current conspiracy ecosystem, and they included

527
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 3: one TikTok video that stated, quote to my North Carolina families, please,

528
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 3: I know it's hard, but please do not take that

529
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 3: seven hundred and fifty dollars. It's alone, and if you

530
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 3: don't pay it back, they will seize your property. In

531
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 3: response to this, FEMA clearly stated that FEMA cannot seize

532
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 3: your property or land. Applying for disaster assistance does not

533
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 3: grant FEMA or the federal government authority or ownership over

534
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 3: your property your land. So now we have these conspiracy

535
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 3: theorists which are being boosted by Republican officials basically encouraging

536
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 3: people to resist help from FEMA, to not evacuate, and

537
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 3: like all of this puts themselves and others in great danger. Right,

538
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 3: you might say, well, if conspiracy theorists don't want help

539
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 3: from from FEMA, like what's the harm, right, Well, these

540
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 3: people have like kids, like these these people have families.

541
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 3: It's not just them that are going to be affected.

542
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 3: If they're refusing to evacuate their family from from the

543
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 3: path of a hurricane and like their kids die, that's

544
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 3: super fucked up. If they're refusing like help from FEMA

545
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 3: to like feed themselves in their family, that's that's not

546
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 3: a good sign of the current state of this country. Yeah, yeah,

547
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 3: like it's it's bad. Rondasantis's press secretary had to come

548
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 3: out against the the unhinged ramble from health ranger on Twitter.

549
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 3: She quote tweeted his post saying spreading lives like this

550
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 3: could have serious consequences. If people in evacuation zones see

551
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 3: this and decide not to evacuate despite warnings from state

552
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 3: and local emergency management, they are unnecessarily putting their own

553
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 3: lives and the lives of first responders at grave risk.

554
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 5: Unquote wow the wow, Well, the fucking Rhondas sandus Is

555
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 5: press person. The leopards are finally eating your face af

556
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 5: you joined the lebregating faith party.

557
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 3: Wow. Who could possibly have predicted this? The Raw Decientists

558
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 3: team has been replaced by the lizard people. I swear.

559
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 5: No.

560
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 3: I think it's got so bad that in DeSantis' like

561
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 3: emergency declaration, he had to specifically put in language that

562
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 3: stated that law enforcement will help ensure that people can

563
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 3: return to their property after the evacuation has ended. Like goofy,

564
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 3: goofy shit. And just like in general, all these FEMA

565
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 3: conspiracies are preventing people in need from requesting a badly

566
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 3: needed help from the agency. I'm going to include this

567
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 3: one clip from this guy who was interviewed on MSNBC

568
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 3: talking about how his family has been refusing help in

569
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 3: North Carolina.

570
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 9: My father in law lives just outside of Asheville, North Carolina,

571
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 9: and he was badly damaged by Hurricane Helene. And he

572
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 9: has refused all FEMA help because he's a hardcore Trumper

573
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,959
Speaker 9: and he believes, he literally believes that he accepts anything

574
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 9: from FEMA. They're going to take his house. I don't

575
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 9: understand how so many people are under the spell of

576
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 9: this freaking con man. I don't understand it.

577
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 15: Well, it's absolutely heartbreaking about your father in law. I'm

578
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 15: so sorry to hear it.

579
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,479
Speaker 9: It's you know, and it's hard just it's hard to

580
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 9: even imagine it. I mean, he lost almost everything, and

581
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 9: he's refusing all help from the federal government and complaining

582
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 9: to us that he doesn't have food, that he doesn't

583
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 9: have the stuff he needs, and yet he won't accept

584
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 9: the help. What the hell are we supposed to do.

585
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 9: We're not in a position to be able to fly

586
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 9: across the country and help him. There's people begging us

587
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 9: to get him to accept help, and he won't do it. Wow,

588
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 9: And I guarantee you I'm not the only one. I

589
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 9: guarantee you I'm not the only one.

590
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 15: I wish there was something I could say as to

591
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 15: you know, I don't know, is there. Does he have

592
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 15: access to any electronics where you could send him some

593
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 15: information debunking this and that he might We've.

594
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 9: Done all of that. We've done all of that. We've

595
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 9: sent him, We've sent him all the them of bulletins,

596
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 9: we've sent him all the stuff from the fact checkers.

597
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 9: He doesn't believe it. He thinks it's all. He just

598
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 9: believes Trump. Literally, Dan, he just it's a cult. He's

599
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 9: a cult member. I'm sorry to say it. He's a

600
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 9: He's a cult member, and he's my father in law.

601
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 9: And it sucks.

602
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 3: That's pretty bad. That's uh, that's devastating, and I think

603
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 3: that is very resonant to a lot of people right now.

604
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 3: And how this whole like conspiracy Missymphilico system that's been

605
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 3: getting worse silly over the course of the eight years

606
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 3: has just like ruined families and puts people in like

607
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 3: constant active danger. Now, these conspiracies have also led to

608
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 3: threats against FEMA workers and meteorologists for both being a

609
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 3: part of the conspiracy and for controlling the weather. I'm

610
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 3: going to read a quote from the Institute for Strategic Dialogue.

611
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 3: Quote falsehoods around hurricane response have spawned credible threats and

612
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 3: incitement to violence directed at the federal government. This includes

613
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 3: calls to send militias to face down FEMA for the

614
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 3: perceived denial of aid, and that individuals should quote unquote

615
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 3: shoot FEMA officials and the agency's emergency responders. Unverified claims

616
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 3: abou attacks on FEMA representatives have been used to glorify

617
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 3: and encourage violence unquote. Media matters archived at TikTok video

618
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 3: threatening a FEMA employees, which received over two hundred thousand views, saying,

619
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 3: quote deer FEDS and FEMA if you're trying to deny

620
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 3: people access to help in the affected area. Be advised,

621
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 3: we're still under the War on Terror emergency declaration. If

622
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 3: you violate your constitutional oath to protect and assist, the

623
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 3: charge will be treason. Punishment can mean being unalived immediately

624
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 3: by the citizens you are withholding aid from unquote on TikTok.

625
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 3: They're threatening to unalive governmentations.

626
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 10: Another mineo states.

627
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 3: Quote public notice we the United States of America had

628
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 3: declared FEMA personnel engaged in obstructing local rescue efforts in

629
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,359
Speaker 3: the area impacted by Hurricane Helen to be enemies of

630
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 3: the state. A FEMA personnel offer any further obstruction or

631
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 3: failed to immediately assist to their best ability, they can

632
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 3: be arrested or shot or hung on site. Christ Now,

633
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 3: a lot of these conspiracy theories are also heavily antisemitic,

634
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 3: talking about like the religion of local officials, like I

635
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 3: think like the mayor of Asheville, and just in general,

636
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 3: combining these weather control conspiracy theories with FEMA conspiracy theories,

637
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 3: saying that like the Jews are somehow controlling all of this,

638
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 3: and like that's just a recurring aspect of these conspiracies

639
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 3: that I feel like it is. It is worth mentioning,

640
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 3: especially because like the right is like trying to weaponize

641
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 3: claims anti Semitism to attack the Democrats on Israel right now,

642
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 3: which is absurd because the Democrats are extremely pro Israel,

643
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 3: but still their constituents are going to be spreading all

644
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 3: these like very unhinge any Smitic conspiracy theories abou Jews

645
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 3: controlling weather and using FEMA to hurt Christians in the Appalachians,

646
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 3: all that kind of stuff. Now, it's not just threats

647
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 3: against FEMA officials. Death threats have also been targeted against meteorologists,

648
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,240
Speaker 3: as Rolling Stone documented in an article last week. Quote

649
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 3: I've been doing this for forty six years, and it's

650
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 3: never been like this, says Alabama meteorologist James span He

651
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 3: says he's been inundated with misinformation and threatening messages like

652
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 3: stop lying about the government controlling the weather or else

653
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 3: unquote great. A Washington, D C. Based meteorologist named Matthew

654
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,760
Speaker 3: Capussi said, quote for me to post a hurricane forecast

655
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 3: and for people to accuse me of creating the hurricane

656
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 3: by working for some secret Illuminati entity is disappointing and

657
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:19,879
Speaker 3: distressing and it's resulting in a decrease in public trust unquote,

658
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 3: So like again, like, why is this all happening? A

659
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 3: part of it is because the election is upcoming and

660
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 3: people are trying to find reasons to think why Trump

661
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 3: might lose, and they're saying that the hurricanes are actually

662
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 3: a plot by the illuminati to make Trump lose the

663
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 3: election via having these storms controlled by Jews and Democrats

664
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 3: to target Republican areas. But like, what has changed in

665
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 3: the actual ecosystem to allow this to feel like it's

666
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 3: so much worse than what it usually has been. And

667
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 3: I've kind of decided that everyone is now Alex Jones,

668
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 3: Like everyone has become their own little mini Alex Jones.

669
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 3: Platforms have changed in the past eight years to create

670
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 3: massive social and financial incentives to go viral, So now

671
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 3: everyone is just doing what Alex Jones did, right, Like

672
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 3: Alex Jones learned that he could make a profit saying

673
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 3: all kinds of crazy shit on air, and now other

674
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 3: people have also learned this lesson. This is a part

675
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 3: of I think what's going on now? How does everyone

676
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 3: has the capacity to go viral by saying whatever crazy

677
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 3: shit they can during a moment of crisis. A few

678
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 3: days ago, there was a really good article in the

679
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 3: Atlantic by Charles Rozel titled I'm running out of ways

680
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 3: to explain how bad this is. This is going to

681
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 3: be linked in the sources below. I recommend you give

682
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 3: it a read, but I'm going to read a paragraphic

683
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 3: from it here. Quote. This is more than just a

684
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 3: misinformation crisis. To watch as real information is overwhelmed by

685
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 3: crank theories at public servants battle death threats is to

686
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 3: confront two alarming facts. First that a durable ecosystem exists

687
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 3: to ensconce citizens in an alternate reality, and second that

688
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 3: the people consuming and amplifying those lies are not helpless dupes,

689
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 3: but willing participants. This reality dinfracturing is the result of

690
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 3: an information ecosystem that is dominated by platforms that offer

691
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 3: financial and intentional incentives to lie and enrage, and to

692
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 3: turn every tragedy and every large event into a shameless

693
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 3: content creation opportunity. This collides with a swath of people

694
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 3: who would rather live in an alternate reality built on

695
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 3: distrust and grievance than change their fundamental beliefs about the world. Unquote.

696
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 3: I know, Mia, We've been talking about this misinformation problem

697
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 3: in the chat and I know you had some comments

698
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:35,240
Speaker 3: you want to you wanted to share.

699
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, there is a god. Where did I first hear this?

700
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 5: My even a philosophy episode, there's a bunch of philosophical

701
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:49,919
Speaker 5: stuff about how ignorance works and about how it's not

702
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 5: just like ingnorance isn't just the state of not knowing something.

703
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 5: You have to actively create it, right, You have to

704
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 5: you have to go out of your way not to

705
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 5: seek the information that would that would sort of like

706
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 5: you know, cause you to have to know, or cause

707
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 5: you to change your worldview, or cause you to like

708
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,280
Speaker 5: have to confront what your beliefs are. So people actively

709
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 5: sort of construct this this reality around themselves so they

710
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 5: don't have to do anything that ever sort of challenges

711
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 5: their own views. And this is something that you can see,

712
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 5: I mean you see it happening all over the place.

713
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 5: And this is one of the things that where sale

714
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 5: it it's like gets right. That is important is that

715
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 5: like people are active participants in the construction of their

716
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 5: own universes. And now there's a financial incentive, there's a

717
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 5: social incentive, and there's also a cognitive incentive, which is

718
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 5: that like having to deal with the fact you might

719
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 5: be wrong. Aboustling fucking sucks, yes, and is hard, and

720
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 5: sometimes you just don't want to know totally.

721
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and this is something that like myself, Robert,

722
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,240
Speaker 3: and you, have been talking about increasingly the past few years.

723
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 3: It feels like misinformation is an outdated model to understand

724
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 3: our current predicament, right, Like misinformation is no longer meant

725
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 3: to like actually change minds or persuade people. It's just

726
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 3: a mechanism to construct and reinforce false realities, like in

727
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 3: the In the recent Meme of Politics episode, I talked

728
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 3: about how AI images of trans athletes or of immigrants

729
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 3: stealing pets like these aren't meant to convince anyone of

730
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 3: their authenticity, but they exist in lieu of evidence to

731
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 3: help people maintain their reality tunnel. An information researcher at

732
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 3: the University of Washington named Michael Kawfield wrote an article

733
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 3: earlier this year about how a whole bunch of mega

734
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 3: people started to deny the authenticity of those videos of

735
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 3: Kamala Harris's rally in that Detroit hangar showing like a massive, massive,

736
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 3: huge crowd with Air Force one or Air Force two

737
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 3: landing and her getting off with these meg people saying

738
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 3: that this was like ais is fake. There was no

739
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 3: way the crowd would be this big, And they invented

740
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 3: a whole bunch of reasons for why that this photo

741
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 3: must be fake. And this this wasn't fake. This was

742
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 3: a real photo. This was easily verified. There's like video

743
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 3: evidence from multiple sources showing that this is a real

744
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 3: thing that happened. But Cawfield wrote, quote, the primary use

745
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 3: of miss information is not to change the beliefs of

746
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 3: other people at all. Instead, the vast majority of misinformation

747
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 3: is offered as a service for people to maintain their

748
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:14,240
Speaker 3: beliefs in face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Unquote,

749
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 3: and yeah, I don't believe in giving this people a

750
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 3: degree of passivity, right like, this is an active choice

751
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 3: that they are doubling down and reinforcing and creating their

752
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 3: own reality tunnels to live in. And I think the

753
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 3: other aspect of this, this is something that Robert was

754
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 3: talking with me last night, is like the people also

755
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 3: propagating this, the people creating the environments to make this happen,

756
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 3: are also willing participants, right like this, this is a

757
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 3: big reason why Musk bought Twitter is so that it

758
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,399
Speaker 3: purposely could turn into the current conspiracy like shit show

759
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 3: that it currently is. Facebook used to be where conspiracy

760
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 3: theorists gathered to post their weird boomer opinions, and now

761
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 3: it's Twitter alongside just actual, like useful, verifiable information. And

762
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 3: now because these two platforms have kind of combined, how

763
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 3: we have so much cons piercy content on Twitter, it

764
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,760
Speaker 3: also just damages the use of Twitter as a platform

765
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 3: to look for real information. And I think you can

766
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 3: see the same thing with TikTok, with its very loose

767
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 3: content moderation policy regarding factual information and the fact that

768
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 3: people use TikTok as its own search engine, creating its

769
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:19,399
Speaker 3: own ecosystem of misinformation, fully isolated away from the rest

770
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,879
Speaker 3: of the Internet. And this project to like wear down

771
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 3: collective reality is a long term project by the right.

772
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 3: You could look at the John Birch Society and other

773
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 3: anti communist groups from the fifties who used to deliberately

774
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 3: put out fake articles about communists infiltrating Fox News and

775
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 3: a whole bunch of conservative mass media like talk radio

776
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 3: was created at least in part as a reaction to

777
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 3: Nixon being forced of office and a lot of the

778
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 3: same people funding right wing media are also pushing for

779
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 3: charter schools and attempts to destroy public education. Like it's

780
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 3: all an intentional effort to make people's media literacy go

781
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 3: completely down the toilet and propagate entire false versions of

782
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 3: reality in so of a few rich people. And that's

783
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,919
Speaker 3: what our current situation is right now. And I don't

784
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 3: know if it's a way to stop it. As you

785
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 3: heard in that clip from MSNBC, like fact checks don't

786
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 3: work anymore, because that's not like the point of any

787
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 3: of this. It's not meant to actually persuade people. It's

788
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 3: only meant to reinforce what they already want to believe.

789
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 3: So what do you do in a world post fact checking?

790
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 3: I don't know, and we're going to have to find out.

791
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 4: I don't know me.

792
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,240
Speaker 3: Do you have any closing thoughts?

793
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 12: You know?

794
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 5: I will say, one of the few things I've ever

795
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 5: seen that's gotten someone out of something like this is

796
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 5: just sometimes it doesn't always work like this, but every

797
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 5: once in a while, you could have an experience that

798
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 5: is so cognitively shattering to everything that you'd believed that

799
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 5: it just implodes.

800
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,760
Speaker 3: So me, you're advocating to dose your Republican family members

801
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:50,240
Speaker 3: with LSD. Is that what I'm hearing?

802
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 5: Well, No, what I'm advocating is that the people who

803
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 5: think that China is a socialist state be sent to

804
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 5: China and have to interact with members.

805
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 4: Of the Chinese Communist Party. Because I have.

806
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 5: Seen the work. It does work. It can't, I've seen

807
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 5: it happen. You can't talk to these people for more

808
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 5: than five minutes. But I mean, you know, a sort

809
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 5: of more serious note, I mean, this is something that

810
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 5: you know, you're trying to fight emotions on a sort

811
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 5: of intellectual level, and so like, if you want to

812
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 5: deal with this, I don't. I think you have to

813
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 5: kind of be working on a sort of like emotional

814
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 5: act factor register. And that sucks because it's you know,

815
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 5: it's effectively the abandonments of politics as politics. It's arguably

816
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 5: just a complete retreat into fascism. But you know, if

817
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 5: you take the sort of undersetting of one of the

818
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 5: elements of it as fascism is reducing all politics to aesthetics.

819
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 4: Right, But we've hit.

820
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 5: This point where there's no centralizing viewpoint, like central reality

821
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 5: tunnel that most people are in, and that's largely partially

822
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:56,280
Speaker 5: because of these people trying to destroy it, and partially

823
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 5: because the people who were running the mainstream media blew

824
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 5: themselves up by lying about rock and then by spending

825
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 5: thirty years insisting that like neoliberalism was the greatest economic

826
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 5: system ever, and then two thousand and eight happening, and so,

827
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 5: like you know, we're in this position where the people

828
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,399
Speaker 5: who had built the guardrails blew it up in order

829
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 5: to make money and push your political jendas, and now

830
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 5: a bunch of other people who want to just destroy

831
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 5: everything inside of those rails are just like detonating bombs

832
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 5: inside of all of our like psychological conscies.

833
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 3: I mean, I think the guy who was talking about

834
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:36,720
Speaker 3: his stepdad in Asheville is correct. It is a cult,

835
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 3: and you have to treat it like you would treat

836
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 3: a cult. You can't fact check them out of this.

837
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 3: You have to treat them like your friend just joined scientology.

838
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 3: Some people might just choose to completely cut the person

839
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 3: off because they find it too dangerous, and that's fine,

840
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 3: but I think there should be others that remain as

841
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 3: a lifeline to the person, right if they ever one

842
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 3: day realize, oh no, I'm in a cult, and I

843
00:46:57,560 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 3: need help. There needs to be a way for them

844
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 3: to get out. There needs to be a lifeline for

845
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 3: them to escape. And this is the only way that

846
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 3: like quote unquote cult deprogramming has worked. You can point

847
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 3: to like people who've gotten out of the QAnon conspiracy theory,

848
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,399
Speaker 3: like this is the only tactic that actually works. It's

849
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 3: reliant on the courtesy of others, right It's it's reliant

850
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 3: that you have to put yourself in a degree of

851
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 3: danger by maintaining contact with this person that is kind

852
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 3: of dangerous because they are in this like very volatile cult.

853
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 3: There needs to be some lifeline for them. And I

854
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 3: think that's really the only way that I know of

855
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 3: right now that shows a degree of success in getting

856
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 3: people out of this like fucked up conspiracy matrix. And

857
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 3: it sucks, and it's not easy, and most people promoting

858
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 3: like cult deprogramming are hacks with pseudoscience. And it turns

859
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 3: out like this is just a very emotional problem and

860
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 3: it requires unfortunately emotional solutions that a simple Reuter's fact

861
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 3: check will not suffice. So anyway, that is my rundown

862
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 3: on what's currently going on with the her misinformation. It's

863
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 3: really bad. Yep, it could happen here.

864
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:27,240
Speaker 5: It it could happen here. The podcast about things falling

865
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 5: apart and how to put them back together again. I'm

866
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 5: your host vo Long So for people who listened to

867
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 5: yesterday's episode, which I'm hoping is like most of you, Yeah,

868
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 5: So yesterday it was a very kind of downer episode

869
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 5: on hurricane misinformation and the way that these sort of

870
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 5: people construct these reality tunnels, and you know, our have

871
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 5: become active participants in their own sort of propagandizement. And

872
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 5: I think we kind of we left on our kind

873
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 5: of note of of what you can do for sort

874
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 5: of individual people, right, which is the same mechanisms you

875
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:02,720
Speaker 5: usually get someone out of a cult, which is you

876
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 5: stay with them, you maintain enough personal connection that you

877
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 5: can pull them out if they ever want to come out.

878
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 5: But that's also not a large scale solution to this problem.

879
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 5: And in order to talk about a large scale solution

880
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 5: to both our present social crisis and the ecological crisis

881
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 5: that this social crisis is being aimed to sort of

882
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 5: cover up. Right now, I'm talking to Rosewater, who's the

883
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 5: hub coordinator for the Sunrise Movement's DC Hub and delegate

884
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 5: to Sunrise's Delicate Body and also a solar punk organized

885
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 5: at Rosewater.

886
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 4: Welcome to the show.

887
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 16: Thank you so much for having me on. Yeah, hi everybody,

888
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 16: my name is Rosewater and yeah, longtime fan of cool

889
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 16: Zone Media. Y'all were my introduction to my current democratic

890
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 16: confederalist politics. Oh that's awesome. So it feels like a

891
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 16: really fun, like full circle moment to have a chance

892
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:52,919
Speaker 16: to be on the pod.

893
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I'm excited to talk to you. So specific

894
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 5: thing where we're talking about is in terms of their

895
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 5: being an actual plan for what people are doing like

896
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 5: past the next three weeks, like after the election. The

897
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 5: biggest thing that has been happening is it's just something

898
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 5: we've talked about a little bit on this show is

899
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 5: to propose twenty twenty eight general strike. So do you

900
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 5: want to talk a little bit about what that is

901
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 5: before we get into sun Rises involvements and yeah, the

902
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:23,720
Speaker 5: sort of broader story.

903
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 10: Yeah.

904
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:28,760
Speaker 16: Yeah, So I feel like most people who follow leftist

905
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 16: politics were following the UAW strike against the Big three

906
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 16: automaker's last fall, and people found that they found their

907
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 16: strike really inspiring and they had like really strong gains

908
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 16: that were the sort of straightforward like increase pay like

909
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 16: better benefits type stuff, and people were celebrating that. But

910
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,759
Speaker 16: I would say the two actual most important changes were

911
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 16: not reported on nearly as much. One was they eroded

912
00:50:55,719 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 16: their labor peace clause and they made it possible to

913
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 16: go on strike if any of their facilities were closed,

914
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 16: which labor peace has in my opinion, been sort of

915
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 16: strangling the US left for eighty years.

916
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, can you explain what that is for people?

917
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 5: I think we've usually were broadly talked about as no

918
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 5: strike clauses, But yeah, can you explain what that is?

919
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 16: Yeah, So, labor piece is essentially a truce that was

920
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 16: established between the labor movement, capitalists, and the US government

921
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 16: where the labor movement gets generalized rights and the US

922
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 16: government is like a quote fair mediator between capitalists and

923
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 16: the labor movement, and capitalists get a consistent workforce and

924
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:51,319
Speaker 16: peace like peace from disruptions. And this essentially was established

925
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 16: between the beginning of World War Two and the end

926
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 16: of the Red Scare, when all of the socialists and

927
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:00,720
Speaker 16: markets and communists were expelled from labor movement.

928
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 10: And it felt.

929
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 16: Like a good deal to a lot of liberals at

930
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 16: the time, and a lot of normal rank and file

931
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 16: workers at the time, but on reflection, it has really

932
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 16: strangled the US labor movement. And so the fact that

933
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:21,280
Speaker 16: the UAW eroded their no stripe clause at all is

934
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 16: a huge precedent, right, Yeah.

935
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 5: And this is something I mean, I mean, I remember

936
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 5: I don't remember if this actually got into the Labor

937
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 5: Notes episode that I did, but I remember at Labor

938
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 5: Notes I was listening to people talk about this, and

939
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 5: this is stuff that I think the global impact of

940
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 5: it has also been really underplayed.

941
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 4: Like I mean, obviously there was a lot of times

942
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:40,280
Speaker 4: you paid.

943
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 5: This in Mexico, right, because there's a lot of like,

944
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:45,280
Speaker 5: you know, the structure of the of the auto industry

945
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:45,800
Speaker 5: is such.

946
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 16: That that's so obvious to me, and I didn't even

947
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 16: think about that until just now.

948
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 4: Yeah.

949
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 5: So one of the things that NAFTA did is that

950
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,359
Speaker 5: sort of right across the border, right, a whole sort

951
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 5: of range of factories that are right across the border

952
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 5: that operate off Mexican labor, that do some of the

953
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 5: auto industry stuff. And so there's always been sort of

954
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 5: connections between the more independent unions there and sort of

955
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:08,439
Speaker 5: American unions. But like you know, but this is also

956
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 5: struck as being watched really, really heavily in China, which

957
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:16,720
Speaker 5: is interesting because like Chinese state unions are a fucking joke.

958
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 5: They're basically not real unions at all. And the extent

959
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:25,479
Speaker 5: to which you know, the China's version of the labor

960
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,799
Speaker 5: piece was also the deal was less like you get

961
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 5: rights and we get like labor piece, and more like

962
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 5: we're going to just stamp out while working class organization

963
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 5: completely and in a way that like was more even

964
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 5: more thorough than what happened here where most of it

965
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 5: got wiped out. I think like the breaking of the

966
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 5: labor piece and the demonstration that there is another way

967
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 5: is something that has reverberated massively across a lot of

968
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 5: different places that I don't think both the people organizing

969
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 5: the strike or the sort of like press coverage of

970
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 5: it has really gotten into sort of how wide the

971
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:05,319
Speaker 5: reverberations of this have been.

972
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 16: Right, I think if it were just eroding that clause alone,

973
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 16: it wouldn't be such a signal.

974
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 6: But yeah, definitely.

975
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 16: The real thing that caught my attention at first was

976
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 16: immediately afterwards they changed the end of their contract date

977
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 16: to International Workers' Day twenty twenty eight, and they called

978
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:32,280
Speaker 16: on every union in the country and later every union

979
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 16: in the world to align with that contract and go

980
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 16: on strike with them on May first, twenty twenty eight,

981
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 16: And that was the first time, Like, correct me if

982
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 16: I'm wrong, that was the first time that a major

983
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 16: labor union in America has called for a planned general

984
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 16: strike since nineteen forty eight.

985
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's true, and I think there being

986
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,359
Speaker 5: an actual plan they're being a way to do what

987
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 5: that's legal is a big deal because part of the

988
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 5: problem with this is that there's you know, unlike unlike

989
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 5: a country like France, American labor law is specifically designed

990
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 5: so that you don't have this happen. There's a bunch

991
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 5: of legal mechanisms for this, but it's very very specifically

992
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 5: designed to make sure that people are not alledged to

993
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 5: solid already strikes. People are not allowed to coordinate the

994
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:31,720
Speaker 5: entire power of their action, and this is a pretty

995
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 5: promising way around that.

996
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:38,280
Speaker 16: Yeah, this may be better for later in the episode.

997
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 16: But one of the things that we're doing is where

998
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 16: in collaboration with the Institute for Social Ecology, doing a

999
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 16: teach in on labor peace and the history of general strikes,

1000
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:54,319
Speaker 16: in the US about a week after the election in

1001
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 16: order to orient ourselves in whatever new political context exists there.

1002
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 5: But yeah, so yeah, I think that's a jumping off

1003
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 5: point to get into. I think Sunrise is kind of

1004
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 5: an unlikely organization that people would think to be getting

1005
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 5: like excited and trying to get involved in a labor struggle. Yeah,

1006
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 5: but yeah, let's talk about how Summrise got involved. And

1007
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 5: I guess first, also, I don't know how many people

1008
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 5: listening to this know what Sunrise is. And if you

1009
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 5: do know what Sunrise is, that might also make you

1010
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 5: war surprise you're getting involved in labor.

1011
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 4: But yes, let's talk about that.

1012
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1013
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 16: So Sunrise is a youth climate movement that has been

1014
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:36,279
Speaker 16: one of the main advocates for the idea of a

1015
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 16: Green New Deal. When AOC first came into office and

1016
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 16: she did that like sit in at Nancy Pelosi's office,

1017
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 16: like that was a Sunrise action, And we historically have

1018
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 16: been an org that sort of like tries to bridge

1019
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,600
Speaker 16: the divide between people who are sort of a politically

1020
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 16: liberal and more radical politics, which is a hard place

1021
00:56:59,200 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 16: to be.

1022
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, someone's got to do it, But we've.

1023
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 16: Really focused on trying to like connect environmentalism with labor. Actually,

1024
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 16: our main slogans, the main intervention that we've succeeded that

1025
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 16: has been associating the idea of environmental action with jobs,

1026
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 16: like green jobs and stuff like that. The problem with

1027
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 16: that has been one it has been primarily rhetorical, especially

1028
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 16: after Burnley's loss in twenty twenty. Yeah, and stories matter,

1029
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 16: but material conditions matter more.

1030
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1031
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 16: And the reason that we didn't we weren't more materially

1032
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 16: involved in connecting labor and environmentalism, and by that I

1033
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 16: mean like connected with unions, is that union's leadership was

1034
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 16: often very far to our right, you know, especially in

1035
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 16: the United States, so it didn't feel like it made sense.

1036
00:57:55,800 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 16: But as a result, the sort of Biden year have

1037
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 16: been a time where there's been a lot of internal

1038
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 16: discussion about like.

1039
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 4: Who we are?

1040
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 16: Are we a radical movement that sort of positions itself

1041
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 16: rhetorically as more normal in order to bring in like

1042
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 16: young people.

1043
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 10: Who whose parents.

1044
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 16: Won't let them, you know, join a fight to end

1045
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 16: all unjust hierarchies, or like sees the means of production,

1046
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 16: et cetera.

1047
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 10: Like are we a radical movement that.

1048
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 16: Poses normy or are we a like liberal progressive movement

1049
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 16: that sometimes asks for radical things, and that's been a

1050
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 16: really big conflict within the ORG these last few years

1051
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 16: because the path to any climate action, the only path

1052
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 16: that a lot of people have seen, has been electoral stuff,

1053
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 16: pushing politicians and things like that. In a lot of ways,

1054
00:58:56,400 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 16: the Inflation Production Act was a result of Sunrises organizing

1055
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 16: and our work to try and force through the Build

1056
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 16: Back Better program, but it aligned us with Biden, and

1057
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 16: from the point of view of a lot of our organizers,

1058
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 16: like even if it was a victory, it didn't feel

1059
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 16: like one, and it's certainly not nearly large enough to

1060
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 16: actually handle the scale of the crisis. And so essentially

1061
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 16: the more radical wing of the movement has been winning

1062
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 16: that fight over the last year two fights, a strong word,

1063
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 16: has been winning that debate over the last year or two,

1064
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 16: and specifically this last summer when the American Federation of

1065
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 16: Teachers joined the general strike, which almost no one has

1066
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 16: heard about. But the AFT and their one point seven

1067
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 16: million members have already decided that they're going to try

1068
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 16: and joined the twenty twenty eight general strike.

1069
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 10: So it's not just the UAW anymore.

1070
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, But unfortunately we need to take an ad break

1071
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 4: and we come back.

1072
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 5: You're going to get to that, because that I think

1073
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 5: we'll be looked back as one of the pivotal moments

1074
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 5: of this whole thing that everyone kind of just missed

1075
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 5: when it happened.

1076
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 16: I completely agree, it's going to be amazing.

1077
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, little ads unfortunately ads, and then we'll do

1078
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 5: it by Gold.

1079
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 4: We're back. I don't fight gold.

1080
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 5: At some point I'm going to write the Dope by

1081
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:37,080
Speaker 5: Gold episode.

1082
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 4: Do you think this is a joke? There is a

1083
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 4: dope buy Gold app.

1084
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 5: It's big worked on in the in the Meal laboratory

1085
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 5: that the gold scammer add thing. Okay, back back back

1086
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 5: to the present or I guess back to the future.

1087
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 5: I don't know time. Time is falling apart here. But

1088
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 5: let's talk about the AFT. The American Federation of Teachers, right,

1089
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 5: and I don't know what they'venounced in terms of this, right.

1090
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 16: So, the American Federation of Teachers, sort of led by

1091
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 16: the Chicago Teachers Union, the Baltimore Teachers Union, and to

1092
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 16: a smaller extent, the DC Teachers Union, managed to get

1093
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 16: through a resolution at their convention that when you read

1094
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 16: the title, it's very boring it's like on aligning with

1095
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 16: the UAW. But when you actually click on the document

1096
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 16: and you read it, it is like class struggle fire

1097
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 16: Like reading it from beginning to end, I felt exhilaration,

1098
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 16: Like I felt like a fire explode in my heart.

1099
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 10: It was so amazing.

1100
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 16: And I heard about this the same weekend that we

1101
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 16: were actually having a climate disaster training in DC. Right,

1102
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 16: we had about one hundred leaders from across our movement,

1103
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 16: about half of our staff there, and at the beginning,

1104
01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 16: people were really excited for climate disaster actions responding to

1105
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 16: moments like this. Actually, but when we talked about victory,

1106
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 16: when we talked about and we're going to have like

1107
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 16: mass mobilization against the climate crisis, where the whole of

1108
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 16: our society like pitches in to do this, the federal

1109
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 16: government like does a World War two style mobilization against

1110
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 16: this destruction, and stuff like that, you could tell that

1111
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 16: people didn't see a path.

1112
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 10: You could tell.

1113
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1114
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 16: And so like this news dropping that the teachers were

1115
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 16: joining a general strike, we're joining mass disruption in some

1116
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 16: meaningful way.

1117
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 10: It hit us like a bomb.

1118
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 16: It was the perfect moment for it to hit us,

1119
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 16: because it was like, yeah, if the auto workers are

1120
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:51,160
Speaker 16: going on strike, and the academic workers are going on strike,

1121
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 16: and the teachers are going on strike, then why can't

1122
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 16: the students go on strike? And not only why can't they,

1123
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 16: but like, the students must go on strike. And that

1124
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 16: was sort of the moment that really got our movement

1125
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:08,919
Speaker 16: from yes, we would like to figure out some sort

1126
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 16: of different way to get to the mass disruption needed

1127
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 16: in order to like win serious action on the climate crisis,

1128
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 16: to like, oh there's a path.

1129
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 10: Yeah, like we see, we see a path.

1130
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:26,439
Speaker 16: It's it's core memory, like if you know, like inside out,

1131
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 16: like core memory formed that weekend.

1132
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:30,080
Speaker 10: It was it was beautiful.

1133
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:32,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think, what's you know?

1134
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 5: I mean, there's a couple things that are important here, right,

1135
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 5: but I think it's being underplayed exactly how important it

1136
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 5: is to have teachers unions being into this, because the

1137
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 5: thing about teachers unions is that they were an extremely

1138
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 5: important lever on labor movement because the way the capitalist

1139
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 5: society is structured, right, is such that most childcare is

1140
01:03:56,920 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 5: just sort of like all of that labor is basically

1141
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:04,560
Speaker 5: been pushed the teachers, right. And the moment that childcare collapses, right,

1142
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:08,120
Speaker 5: a bunch of people suddenly also who are not normally

1143
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:09,919
Speaker 5: on strikes suddenly are not able to do the drugs

1144
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:11,400
Speaker 5: because they have they have to find some way to

1145
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:14,360
Speaker 5: take care of their kids. And so this is this

1146
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 5: is sort of a massive leverage point and in the

1147
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:20,040
Speaker 5: same way that like sort of dock worker strikes, or

1148
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:21,320
Speaker 5: I mean not in the same way, but like in

1149
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 5: a sense that a strike by these people can shut

1150
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 5: down way way more labor than just theirs directly, right,

1151
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 5: this is something that's very important.

1152
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, I never really thought about that.

1153
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:34,720
Speaker 16: I've thought about them in the context of like their

1154
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:38,040
Speaker 16: sort of community pillars, so like when teachers go on strike,

1155
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 16: they often bring way more community support with them than

1156
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:46,280
Speaker 16: other types of workers. But yeah, you're totally right, like

1157
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 16: outside of like the community going with them. Also, that

1158
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 16: is the primary form of childcare that exists in this country.

1159
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:57,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, and there is something that like teachers organizers, like

1160
01:04:57,320 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 5: she's just un organizers are very big ons are emphasizing

1161
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 5: because they have an enormous amount of power and it's

1162
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 5: kind of to a large extent, hasn't been tapped for

1163
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:11,040
Speaker 5: the kinds of sort of mass political action that we're

1164
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 5: seeing here.

1165
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 4: Like it's one of those things.

1166
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 5: It's one of those sort of leverage points that's always existed,

1167
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 5: but there hasn't really been the kind of like political

1168
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 5: will or momentum more sort of organizing capacity to fully

1169
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 5: mobilize it. And yeah, so I guess I want to

1170
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 5: move from hereter talking about sunrises involvement in the strike,

1171
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 5: because I think this part is really interesting both in

1172
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 5: terms of they're being like both of the times of

1173
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:39,160
Speaker 5: strike support and student strikes. So can you talk, I

1174
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:42,280
Speaker 5: guess about the sort of politics of student strikes and

1175
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 5: how you see this fitting into the broader thing that's happening.

1176
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1177
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:50,040
Speaker 16: Yeah, So the climate movement sort of had the height

1178
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 16: of its power in twenty nineteen, I would say, when

1179
01:05:56,960 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 16: you had Fridays for Future and like Gretitchenberg, climate strikes

1180
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 16: all across Europe and America. But I would use the

1181
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 16: word strike in quotes because sometimes you had full walkouts,

1182
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 16: sometimes you had like those sorts of huge things, but

1183
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:18,880
Speaker 16: most of the time it was students asking permission from

1184
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:23,280
Speaker 16: authority figures to participate in a rally and things like that,

1185
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 16: Whereas in a class struggle context, like a strike is

1186
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 16: people going to the authority figure and saying this is

1187
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 16: not occurring because we're not going to be here, you know.

1188
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:38,600
Speaker 16: Like this has been a critique that's existed inside of

1189
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 16: Sunrise like from that period for years now, which was

1190
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 16: one of the reasons why we haven't focused on those

1191
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:49,680
Speaker 16: sort of tactics as much. But with this sort of moment,

1192
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:54,920
Speaker 16: especially if we can bring the teachers along, right, being

1193
01:06:55,000 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 16: able to have students see their authority figures doing this

1194
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 16: sort of thing, especially in more conservative areas, while also

1195
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 16: teaching them how to do it, because in really meaningful ways,

1196
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 16: schools are practice work yep. Like they were directly modeled

1197
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 16: after factories in the eighteen hundreds, so schools are modeled

1198
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:25,680
Speaker 16: after work. So if schools are practice work, then student

1199
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 16: strikes can be practice labor organizing.

1200
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:32,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, and turning schools from sort of laboratories

1201
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 5: for the reproduction of the class system into laboratories for

1202
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:40,440
Speaker 5: learning class struggle. It's something that's very very important, both

1203
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 5: in the immediate term and in the longer term. Yeah,

1204
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:47,520
Speaker 5: we've talked a bit about this on other episodes, but

1205
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:52,240
Speaker 5: like there hasn't been the kind of like generational passed

1206
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:54,920
Speaker 5: down of organizing skills that we've seen in sort of

1207
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:58,240
Speaker 5: preview generations and the way honestly, we've talked this, we

1208
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 5: talked about the center sort of UAW staff episode, right

1209
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 5: that the way that a lot of these unions are

1210
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 5: running their staff systems also aren't designed to build up

1211
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 5: like continuous momentum for people who learn how to organizing

1212
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:12,280
Speaker 5: and keep doing it. And this is a way, because

1213
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:16,880
Speaker 5: it restart that treadbill to create a generation of organizers

1214
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:19,200
Speaker 5: both in this moment and for the future.

1215
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:20,680
Speaker 10: Yes, exactly.

1216
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:24,760
Speaker 16: And I have had many critiques of my organization, many

1217
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:28,040
Speaker 16: critiques of my movement, but the thing that has always

1218
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 16: made me want to like stick around has been seeing

1219
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:37,839
Speaker 16: the young organizers who like find themselves here. Like the

1220
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 16: primary person who does our press stuff in the movement

1221
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:44,559
Speaker 16: is turning eighteen in like three days.

1222
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:47,560
Speaker 3: Wow, they're one of the best organizers.

1223
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 5: I know.

1224
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 10: It's it's wow, it's inspiring.

1225
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:54,640
Speaker 16: But it's something that we I want our movement to

1226
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 16: do at scale as opposed to like having something like

1227
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:00,439
Speaker 16: that every once in a while, Like you said, the

1228
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 16: idea of creating an entire generation, and I'd love to

1229
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:07,720
Speaker 16: talk about a sort of thought process and plan around that.

1230
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:09,040
Speaker 10: After the ad break.

1231
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:13,439
Speaker 5: Here's some ads when we come back, we'll do things

1232
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:14,559
Speaker 5: that aren't ads.

1233
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 4: Question mark.

1234
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 5: Oh and we are back to say what better ad transitions?

1235
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:34,759
Speaker 4: They should raise my salary, Davin back.

1236
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:35,679
Speaker 10: Awesome.

1237
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 16: So one of the things that I think is really

1238
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 16: in terms of a like for us, a stable niche

1239
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:46,599
Speaker 16: in the movement ecology, is to be sort of a

1240
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 16: feeder for radical labor in a sort of way, like

1241
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:54,920
Speaker 16: because one of the things is even if you are

1242
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:57,760
Speaker 16: radical and you go into the labor movement, oftentimes you

1243
01:09:57,840 --> 01:10:01,559
Speaker 16: are going to be taught practic this is that rely

1244
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:06,000
Speaker 16: on labor piece in meaningful ways, practices that are going

1245
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:09,200
Speaker 16: to be going to be really disrupted if labor law

1246
01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 16: weren't a thing and stuff like that, and it's something

1247
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:16,879
Speaker 16: that holds back our ability to create a strongly organized

1248
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:22,200
Speaker 16: working class. But in the context of schools, right, there

1249
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 16: is no labor law. There is no labor piece in

1250
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 16: a high school. Right, So as a place to practice

1251
01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:34,320
Speaker 16: the sort of radical class struggle organizing that we're talking about,

1252
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:38,360
Speaker 16: it's sort of the perfect place because it's a simplified

1253
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:43,599
Speaker 16: version of the workplace of like adult reality. There are

1254
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:49,519
Speaker 16: obviously many other blockages, like students and young people miners

1255
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 16: have far far less power and far fewer rights than

1256
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:57,639
Speaker 16: you do once you become an adult, and their family

1257
01:10:57,680 --> 01:10:59,120
Speaker 16: has far more power over them.

1258
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:00,839
Speaker 10: There are huge barriers.

1259
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:05,879
Speaker 16: But in terms of like grounding people in class struggle

1260
01:11:06,160 --> 01:11:10,120
Speaker 16: labor organizing tactics, I'm thinking of things that you can

1261
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:14,439
Speaker 16: learn about in Jane mclavy's book No Shortcuts and stuff

1262
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:19,679
Speaker 16: like that. They can learn how to use structure tests

1263
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:24,800
Speaker 16: and use hard organizing conversations in order to build their

1264
01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:29,920
Speaker 16: power in a specific context and things like that, and

1265
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 16: whether or not they actually manage the strike. Right at

1266
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 16: the end of it, you have an eighteen year old

1267
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:40,160
Speaker 16: entering the workforce who is a skilled, trained, class struggle

1268
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:44,800
Speaker 16: organizer who has gained their politics completely outside of the

1269
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:45,920
Speaker 16: context of labor peace.

1270
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:48,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think that that's one of the important

1271
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 5: aspects of this. And I think that the second one

1272
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:52,920
Speaker 5: is something you were talking about earlier, which is sort

1273
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:56,200
Speaker 5: of bridging the sort of labor ecological divide. And I

1274
01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 5: think that's what happened more, which is encouraging because yes,

1275
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:02,679
Speaker 5: there's been an enormous effort to make sure this doesn't happen.

1276
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 5: I mean, I think we've talked about this on this

1277
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 5: show at some point. I know, I know, Margaret's talked

1278
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:11,760
Speaker 5: about it on Cooleeple this cool stuff. But I mean

1279
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:13,479
Speaker 5: one of the most famous sigence people tried to do

1280
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:17,000
Speaker 5: this is a iww dow organized it named Jody Berry

1281
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:21,360
Speaker 5: and she so legally speaking, we don't know who killed her.

1282
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:23,360
Speaker 5: What I will say is that she was killed by

1283
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:25,360
Speaker 5: a car bomb that was virtually identical to a car

1284
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:28,120
Speaker 5: bomb that was built by the FBI that wasedated by

1285
01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:31,280
Speaker 5: the FBI in their bomb like training things like a

1286
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:35,840
Speaker 5: couple of weeks before. So right, we Jennie widely don't

1287
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:39,519
Speaker 5: know who killed her. However, Kamba someone built a car

1288
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:41,559
Speaker 5: bomb and blew her up in order to stop this

1289
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:44,479
Speaker 5: from happening. So it is something that is very very

1290
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:47,400
Speaker 5: obviously seen by the powers that be is extremely dangerous.

1291
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:50,439
Speaker 16: Yeah, in the same way that we know exactly the

1292
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:54,559
Speaker 16: singular one person who on his own completely killed Martin

1293
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 16: Luther King with no support from the US government. Yeah.

1294
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:03,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, And like you know, I think this is this

1295
01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:05,639
Speaker 5: is an important moment to script do this because one

1296
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:07,400
Speaker 5: of the things that the right is trying to do

1297
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:11,960
Speaker 5: to like capture this sort of like moments of radical

1298
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:14,720
Speaker 5: labor has been like Oh yeah, all the problems with

1299
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:16,840
Speaker 5: the UAW are because the government wasn't fortunate to make

1300
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:19,559
Speaker 5: electric cars. It's like, didn't you know there's very much

1301
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 5: like an anti ecological angle too, definitely to the way

1302
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:26,559
Speaker 5: that sort of republican co option is happening. So it's

1303
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:28,519
Speaker 5: another thing that we can use a simultaneous tactic for

1304
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:30,679
Speaker 5: our side and helps defeat a co option attempt.

1305
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 16: In addition to this being a way to like take

1306
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:39,840
Speaker 16: on the climate crisis in meaningful ways, the climate crisis

1307
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:44,280
Speaker 16: is also a way where we can like make more

1308
01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:47,479
Speaker 16: radical demands. This is one of the reasons that I

1309
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:52,559
Speaker 16: really love Sunrise and ecological like ecosocialist movements in general,

1310
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:57,639
Speaker 16: because if you ask someone to seriously consider how do

1311
01:13:57,680 --> 01:14:00,360
Speaker 16: we address the climate crisis, and you're not paying them

1312
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:03,839
Speaker 16: to have a specific answer, which is nonprofit industrial complex

1313
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:07,599
Speaker 16: things like, if you ask someone to seriously consider what

1314
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 16: do we need to do in order to address the

1315
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:13,920
Speaker 16: climate crisis in six months, you have a radical no

1316
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:14,280
Speaker 16: matter what.

1317
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:18,120
Speaker 10: In my experience, no one who I've ever.

1318
01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:22,320
Speaker 16: Talked to who has thought about that question seriously for

1319
01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:25,720
Speaker 16: six months and not avoided it has not come out

1320
01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:27,920
Speaker 16: the other end being like, oh, we need a general strike,

1321
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 16: we need a revolution, you know.

1322
01:14:29,960 --> 01:14:30,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so.

1323
01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 16: Like being able to bring that exact, that exact analysis

1324
01:14:35,880 --> 01:14:39,920
Speaker 16: into the labor movement I think is one of the

1325
01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:40,759
Speaker 16: things that.

1326
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:42,240
Speaker 10: Can bring back radical labor.

1327
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:46,840
Speaker 16: You talk to labor leaders who might feel comfortable with

1328
01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:49,320
Speaker 16: labor peace and they're like, we can do this, we

1329
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 16: have time, and you're like, how much time exactly do

1330
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:52,439
Speaker 16: we have?

1331
01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:56,639
Speaker 5: Like really think about it. Yeah, And this is something

1332
01:14:56,680 --> 01:14:58,920
Speaker 5: that we've seen. I think this is a good place to

1333
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:02,200
Speaker 5: wrap up something that we've also seen in the way

1334
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:05,880
Speaker 5: that immediate short term disaster response is happening, where you know,

1335
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:07,880
Speaker 5: all of these sort of you have like millions of

1336
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:10,880
Speaker 5: people who are like would not show up to a

1337
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:14,439
Speaker 5: mutual aid thing are suddenly like out there doing mutual

1338
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:17,439
Speaker 5: aid and have at least temporarily completely restructured the way

1339
01:15:17,479 --> 01:15:20,600
Speaker 5: the society works because they're confronted with the sort of

1340
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:26,160
Speaker 5: immediacy of crisis and also the immediacy of the fact

1341
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:28,599
Speaker 5: that the way that we have been doing things simply

1342
01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:32,280
Speaker 5: is not actually a functional way to for example, respond

1343
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:32,959
Speaker 5: to a hurricane.

1344
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:33,679
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1345
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 5: I think there's a bridge there between the sort of

1346
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:41,120
Speaker 5: immediacy of this like mutual aid, disaster response politics, and

1347
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:44,719
Speaker 5: the sort of long term goal of trying to actually

1348
01:15:44,800 --> 01:15:48,280
Speaker 5: like have sustained sensative action against the sort of climate devastation.

1349
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:53,160
Speaker 16: Yeah, I completely agree, And this is quite a tangent

1350
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:56,559
Speaker 16: from the specific topic that we're thinking about. But when

1351
01:15:56,560 --> 01:16:01,000
Speaker 16: I think about democratic confederalist politics, like Roseev was able

1352
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:03,839
Speaker 16: to take power and have its revolution because the state retreated,

1353
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:06,799
Speaker 16: and ideally we don't have a civil war that causes

1354
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:10,680
Speaker 16: the state to retreat. Ideally, Yeah, one thing we do

1355
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:15,040
Speaker 16: know will happen and is happening right now, is that

1356
01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:19,920
Speaker 16: the state retreats during disasters. The state retreats during climate disasters.

1357
01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:23,799
Speaker 16: And so if we're prepared to take that temporary mutual

1358
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:28,439
Speaker 16: aid structures and jump on them in order to create

1359
01:16:28,479 --> 01:16:32,679
Speaker 16: systems like what they have in Rosheva and create build

1360
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:36,479
Speaker 16: our labor movements, build our neighborhood power, build our direct

1361
01:16:36,479 --> 01:16:39,640
Speaker 16: democracy capabilities, and be able to be like, no, we

1362
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:43,520
Speaker 16: want to keep these whenever the police come back, whenever.

1363
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:44,400
Speaker 10: Da da da da da.

1364
01:16:45,080 --> 01:16:49,960
Speaker 16: Yeah, Like, there's going to be devastation, but there's also

1365
01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:54,360
Speaker 16: a lot of opportunities for creating really really beautiful things.

1366
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:57,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I want to close on. There's now a

1367
01:16:57,760 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 5: whole argument as to whether or not whether or not

1368
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:06,519
Speaker 5: Buena Ventura de Rudi, who is one of this very

1369
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:09,599
Speaker 5: prominent organizers in the Spanish Revolution, ever actually said this,

1370
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:12,799
Speaker 5: but there was a quote attributed to him that goes roughly,

1371
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:14,920
Speaker 5: we are not in the least afraid of ruins, Like

1372
01:17:15,360 --> 01:17:18,200
Speaker 5: we are the people who built this world and we'll

1373
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:19,120
Speaker 5: do it again.

1374
01:17:19,479 --> 01:17:20,920
Speaker 10: Wow. That's beautiful.

1375
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:23,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think that's in some sense the attitude

1376
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:25,639
Speaker 5: that we have to be going into this here right

1377
01:17:25,720 --> 01:17:28,800
Speaker 5: of you know, like the path that we are on now.

1378
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:31,000
Speaker 5: And this is true even if a movement takes power

1379
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:32,720
Speaker 5: that is dedicated to actually sort of dealing with the

1380
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:35,960
Speaker 5: climate crisis, right, the stuff that we have now is normal.

1381
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:37,800
Speaker 5: This is just what the future is going to be.

1382
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:39,519
Speaker 5: There's going to be disaster, it's going to be storms,

1383
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:44,400
Speaker 5: it's going to be destruction. But again, fundamentally like we

1384
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:47,679
Speaker 5: are the people who built this world and we can

1385
01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:49,680
Speaker 5: build it again. We're going to have to build it

1386
01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:51,360
Speaker 5: again and we're going to build it better.

1387
01:17:51,560 --> 01:17:52,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1388
01:17:52,640 --> 01:17:57,080
Speaker 16: Actually that makes me think of this one song that

1389
01:17:57,120 --> 01:17:59,439
Speaker 16: we sing a lot in Sunrise, like we have a

1390
01:17:59,479 --> 01:18:01,400
Speaker 16: really big cat focus on movement song.

1391
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:03,840
Speaker 10: I would really love it if that could be the outro.

1392
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:08,519
Speaker 11: Yeah, there are more waters rising this side I know

1393
01:18:09,080 --> 01:18:13,080
Speaker 11: the side I know there are more waters rising the

1394
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:13,760
Speaker 11: side I know.

1395
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:20,120
Speaker 16: It is a song called More Waters Rising by Sarah Lynch,

1396
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:27,599
Speaker 16: who is a movement musician actually from Asheville, North Carolina.

1397
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:31,280
Speaker 16: It's not fully clear to me right now if they

1398
01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 16: are safe, but we've been singing this song for many years.

1399
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:42,160
Speaker 11: There are more fires burning the side I know, there

1400
01:18:42,280 --> 01:18:44,439
Speaker 11: are more fires burning.

1401
01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:45,960
Speaker 10: They will find it.

1402
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:49,160
Speaker 16: It is a song that I think really resonates with

1403
01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:53,360
Speaker 16: the thing that me and Mia just finished talking about

1404
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 16: knowing what's on the horizon, knowing the ruin that we

1405
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:04,080
Speaker 16: may face, but also knowing that we're not afraid of

1406
01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:06,960
Speaker 16: that and that we can get through it.

1407
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:10,720
Speaker 11: I will rebuild the mountains the sign no.

1408
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:11,920
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1409
01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:16,800
Speaker 16: So I hope that you all find the strength with

1410
01:19:17,120 --> 01:19:22,479
Speaker 16: the song and with these plans to rebuild the mountains.

1411
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:23,360
Speaker 10: Thank you.

1412
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:27,280
Speaker 11: I will wait through the waters when they find their

1413
01:19:27,320 --> 01:19:31,040
Speaker 11: way to me. I will wait through the waters the

1414
01:19:31,160 --> 01:19:35,799
Speaker 11: sign o the sign I know. I will wade through the.

1415
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:37,479
Speaker 8: Waters the sign no.

1416
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:46,639
Speaker 17: Hello, and welcome to the podcast. It's a calm introduction today.

1417
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:50,240
Speaker 17: It's just a chill one. It's me James and I'm

1418
01:19:50,320 --> 01:19:51,080
Speaker 17: joined by Mia.

1419
01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:52,680
Speaker 4: How you doing, Maya not.

1420
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:56,280
Speaker 5: The best, but you know, we're hanging in there. We're

1421
01:19:56,280 --> 01:19:59,000
Speaker 5: defeating We're defeating the illness of the frailness of the

1422
01:19:59,040 --> 01:19:59,759
Speaker 5: human body.

1423
01:20:00,160 --> 01:20:03,400
Speaker 17: Yeah, overcoming the surly bonds of Earth, the types of

1424
01:20:03,439 --> 01:20:04,439
Speaker 17: face of God or something.

1425
01:20:04,479 --> 01:20:06,280
Speaker 4: That's what Elon Musk does every day. Of course.

1426
01:20:06,439 --> 01:20:08,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, when we're doing this at the power of cough medicine,

1427
01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:09,400
Speaker 5: it's going to be great.

1428
01:20:10,320 --> 01:20:12,640
Speaker 17: Yeah, yeah, not the kind of cough medicine that you

1429
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:15,719
Speaker 17: can only buy so much of. Okay, So we're here today,

1430
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:19,720
Speaker 17: how by cough medicine, to discuss the United Nations inter

1431
01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:23,080
Speaker 17: reinforce in Lebanon. Of course, thing that we haven't talked

1432
01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:25,479
Speaker 17: about before, but the lots of people are talking about

1433
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:28,920
Speaker 17: on the internet, and I wanted to like just clear

1434
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:32,280
Speaker 17: up what I think is some misunderstandings or like just

1435
01:20:32,360 --> 01:20:35,040
Speaker 17: a lack of background, sort of explain what they do,

1436
01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:39,719
Speaker 17: Explain who it's composed of, a little bit of history

1437
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:44,400
Speaker 17: and sort of its role here. As Israel begins attacking

1438
01:20:44,479 --> 01:20:47,360
Speaker 17: Lebanon as it did Gaza, right and as it has

1439
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:49,360
Speaker 17: continued to attack the West Bank as well.

1440
01:20:49,680 --> 01:20:51,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, and as we're going to get to the end

1441
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:53,960
Speaker 5: of this episode, they've started making a small push into Syria.

1442
01:20:54,360 --> 01:20:56,880
Speaker 5: So great things happening here. Well, we'll get to that

1443
01:20:57,240 --> 01:20:57,839
Speaker 5: the episode.

1444
01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:03,480
Speaker 17: Yeah, yeah, again employing an entirely proprietary understanding of borders

1445
01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:05,080
Speaker 17: and where they are and how they work.

1446
01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:10,280
Speaker 4: Maybe they're actually the no borders state. Like and it's Anderson.

1447
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:14,240
Speaker 5: My opposition to the Sykes picode borders is well known,

1448
01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:15,840
Speaker 5: but not like this man.

1449
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:19,240
Speaker 4: It is not like that when I said destroy.

1450
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:23,400
Speaker 17: The borders and Evan diagram the overlap of people who

1451
01:21:23,479 --> 01:21:27,519
Speaker 17: disagree with Sykes pecod it's Mia Wong, the Kurdistan Workers

1452
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:30,680
Speaker 17: Party in Israel, but like it's very small and they

1453
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:32,519
Speaker 17: disagree with it for very different reasons.

1454
01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:35,360
Speaker 5: Isis too, Yeah that's true. Yeah, yeah, you're really in

1455
01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:38,120
Speaker 5: a good company. Yeah, I remember back in back in

1456
01:21:38,200 --> 01:21:40,880
Speaker 5: like twenty fourteen. So this one's for there's there are

1457
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:42,280
Speaker 5: a bunch of kids who listen.

1458
01:21:42,080 --> 01:21:43,720
Speaker 4: To this show. And by kids, I mean people who

1459
01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:44,720
Speaker 4: weren't like twenty.

1460
01:21:44,439 --> 01:21:47,280
Speaker 5: Seven, who don't remember the fact that you could just

1461
01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:51,599
Speaker 5: argue with isis people on Twitter fifteen and like they

1462
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:54,519
Speaker 5: had a really good pr operation. Oh incredible. Yeah, and

1463
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:56,320
Speaker 5: one of the arguments who would make was like, well, yeah,

1464
01:21:56,320 --> 01:22:00,200
Speaker 5: we're trying to destroy the imperialists, like psychso borders were

1465
01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:04,960
Speaker 5: like well okay, well, like you're doing this by establishing ISIS.

1466
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:10,280
Speaker 17: It's like really, yeah, there was a wild time when

1467
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:12,559
Speaker 17: you could argue them, Like you can still argue with

1468
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:16,160
Speaker 17: like an assadist occasionally on Twitter or like oh sure,

1469
01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:16,479
Speaker 17: but like.

1470
01:22:16,520 --> 01:22:19,280
Speaker 5: This wasn't even just like people who support them. This

1471
01:22:19,439 --> 01:22:21,720
Speaker 5: was like actual isis PR guys.

1472
01:22:21,960 --> 01:22:25,040
Speaker 17: Yeah, yeah, there was. Their whole job was to argue

1473
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:28,240
Speaker 17: with you. Yeah, there are some pretty good articles from

1474
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:30,559
Speaker 17: back in that time period about that if you're too

1475
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:33,160
Speaker 17: young to remember that. But yeah, So we're talking about

1476
01:22:33,240 --> 01:22:35,840
Speaker 17: UNIFIL today right at the United Nations intermforcing lemanon why

1477
01:22:35,880 --> 01:22:38,599
Speaker 17: are we talking about them? Because the IDF has spent

1478
01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:42,320
Speaker 17: the last week or so edging on just openly attacking them,

1479
01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:44,559
Speaker 17: and it has more or less openly attacked them, but

1480
01:22:44,600 --> 01:22:48,640
Speaker 17: it hasn't done so in like a complete way. I

1481
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:50,760
Speaker 17: guess we'll talk a little bit now about some of

1482
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:52,439
Speaker 17: the things which have happened, because I think we should

1483
01:22:52,439 --> 01:22:55,160
Speaker 17: probably start there, and then what'd explain who UNIFIL are,

1484
01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:55,800
Speaker 17: what they do.

1485
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:57,400
Speaker 4: Whether they're etcetera. A little bit of history.

1486
01:22:57,600 --> 01:23:00,200
Speaker 17: So UNIPHIL has called the situation with the idea of

1487
01:23:00,240 --> 01:23:04,280
Speaker 17: extremely serious and a flagrant violation of international law, a

1488
01:23:04,280 --> 01:23:07,760
Speaker 17: phrase which is used every time Israel does anything, because.

1489
01:23:07,400 --> 01:23:10,599
Speaker 5: It's true and then nothing happens, and then nothing happens.

1490
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:13,240
Speaker 17: Yeah, and that's I think where we're going to end

1491
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:18,000
Speaker 17: up today, is that like it's good that they are there, right, like,

1492
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:21,479
Speaker 17: just to a big picture, this what Israel has done

1493
01:23:21,800 --> 01:23:25,040
Speaker 17: in Lebanon, in Gaza and in the West Bank is

1494
01:23:25,240 --> 01:23:29,120
Speaker 17: it has attacked anyone who is any form of outside observer, right,

1495
01:23:29,200 --> 01:23:32,519
Speaker 17: it has killed aid workers, it has killed journalists, and

1496
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:37,200
Speaker 17: it has shot artillery rounds that peacekeepers injured peacekeepers in Lebanon. Right,

1497
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:41,120
Speaker 17: anyone who can provide any form of independent oversight, who

1498
01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:44,080
Speaker 17: can provide any form of accountability for what they're doing,

1499
01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:45,479
Speaker 17: is in danger.

1500
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:47,519
Speaker 4: And this like is more or less.

1501
01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:49,360
Speaker 17: I mean, Rassia does this a little bit too, right,

1502
01:23:49,400 --> 01:23:53,759
Speaker 17: but like among like I don't know what we're supposed

1503
01:23:53,800 --> 01:23:57,439
Speaker 17: to understand. It's relative democracy, but like this war seems

1504
01:23:57,439 --> 01:24:00,599
Speaker 17: to be pretty unpopular even there. And then yahoo, isn't

1505
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:03,880
Speaker 17: He's taken a Trump approach to democracy. Let's say, Israel

1506
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:06,960
Speaker 17: seemingly murdering journalists as part of his policy as a

1507
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:10,599
Speaker 17: goal of its invasion of Gaza is pretty unique, even

1508
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:12,840
Speaker 17: by the standards of like other Western militaries who have

1509
01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:14,840
Speaker 17: done some pretty terrible things in the Middle East in

1510
01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:18,040
Speaker 17: the last twenty years. So some of the things they've

1511
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:20,920
Speaker 17: done in recent days. It's fired smoke grounds about one

1512
01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:24,120
Speaker 17: hundred meters from their compounds, causing uniform peacekeepers to have

1513
01:24:24,160 --> 01:24:27,280
Speaker 17: to done their gas masks. Fifteen of them were injured.

1514
01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:30,519
Speaker 17: They have like skin irritation for whatever the munition was.

1515
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:33,519
Speaker 17: I don't quite know what it was. I guess I

1516
01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:37,559
Speaker 17: think expired smokes can do that, and tear gases old

1517
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:40,760
Speaker 17: tear gas can do that. You're not supposed to use

1518
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:43,840
Speaker 17: tear gas. Yeah, that's a war crime. Yeah, that's a

1519
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:46,120
Speaker 17: war crime. It's a warkind that lots of people do.

1520
01:24:46,240 --> 01:24:47,960
Speaker 17: To be fair, like, they wouldn't be the first one

1521
01:24:47,960 --> 01:24:50,719
Speaker 17: I'd seen. But then again, right, like these are people,

1522
01:24:50,760 --> 01:24:52,640
Speaker 17: are they signature's to a genet of convention? Actually, I

1523
01:24:52,680 --> 01:24:54,680
Speaker 17: don't know that's a good they are. They don't give

1524
01:24:54,680 --> 01:24:58,200
Speaker 17: a fuck. Does it really matter that? Yeah, have a look,

1525
01:24:58,280 --> 01:24:59,120
Speaker 17: I'm interested to know.

1526
01:24:59,360 --> 01:24:59,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, they are.

1527
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:02,080
Speaker 5: We have ratified the Video of Convention, which I guess

1528
01:25:02,200 --> 01:25:06,920
Speaker 5: makes them mildly more bigger international law bound in the US.

1529
01:25:08,280 --> 01:25:11,519
Speaker 4: The ultimate rogue state, Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1530
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:13,439
Speaker 17: I mean it's relis is pretty much a rogue state

1531
01:25:13,439 --> 01:25:15,800
Speaker 17: at this point, right Like that I think is oh yeah,

1532
01:25:16,080 --> 01:25:18,160
Speaker 17: the sort of the frame of analysisue which they should

1533
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:20,880
Speaker 17: be understood. A rogue state doing violence set alone is

1534
01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:23,679
Speaker 17: wherever the fuck it wants with your taxpayer money, because

1535
01:25:24,439 --> 01:25:26,720
Speaker 17: apparently there's nothing it can do which will cause it

1536
01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:29,320
Speaker 17: to have one centimeter of accountability from the US.

1537
01:25:29,600 --> 01:25:30,160
Speaker 13: Yeah.

1538
01:25:30,320 --> 01:25:31,800
Speaker 4: Other things they've been getting up to.

1539
01:25:32,040 --> 01:25:35,760
Speaker 17: They've knocked down compound walls of the UNIFIL compounds.

1540
01:25:35,960 --> 01:25:39,320
Speaker 4: Can we explain what uniform is, by the way, Yeah, sure. So.

1541
01:25:39,400 --> 01:25:42,400
Speaker 17: The UNIFIL is the United Nations Interimforce in Lebanon. It's

1542
01:25:42,439 --> 01:25:47,559
Speaker 17: tasked with peacekeeping, monitoring the withdrawal of the IDF. So

1543
01:25:47,840 --> 01:25:52,439
Speaker 17: in theory, the IDEF, as we'll get into, has invaded

1544
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:59,160
Speaker 17: Lebanon many times in theory since two thousand and six,

1545
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:02,599
Speaker 17: which was the last time it's sort of invaded Lebanon

1546
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:05,120
Speaker 17: On Like it's invaded Lebanon on a very small scale.

1547
01:26:05,320 --> 01:26:08,839
Speaker 17: The hundreds of times, right, like, for instance, stepping across

1548
01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:12,639
Speaker 17: the border, which the border is not entirely agreed upon

1549
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:15,439
Speaker 17: by its Lebanon, but the United Nations has imposed something

1550
01:26:15,479 --> 01:26:17,320
Speaker 17: called a blue line, which is what it considers to

1551
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:19,720
Speaker 17: be the border. It's Raeli troops will go across that

1552
01:26:19,800 --> 01:26:22,120
Speaker 17: to trim trees a lot so they can like spy

1553
01:26:22,280 --> 01:26:25,439
Speaker 17: more effectively. Right, they literally have towers and cameras and stuff.

1554
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:28,679
Speaker 17: But in two thousand and six, people who are old

1555
01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:31,920
Speaker 17: like myself were members. Last time it did a sort

1556
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:35,360
Speaker 17: of full scale evasion of Lebanon and on its withdrawal.

1557
01:26:35,760 --> 01:26:37,200
Speaker 17: I'll just go through the history of uniform now and

1558
01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:39,240
Speaker 17: we can talk about the attack later, I guess. So

1559
01:26:39,760 --> 01:26:44,599
Speaker 17: they're supposed to keep the IDF and Husbulla in theory

1560
01:26:44,720 --> 01:26:47,519
Speaker 17: out of an area between the Latani River and the

1561
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:50,280
Speaker 17: blue line. The blue line is where the UN through

1562
01:26:50,280 --> 01:26:53,800
Speaker 17: the border in two thousand and The idea is that

1563
01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:55,960
Speaker 17: the border was drawn there by the UN to determine

1564
01:26:56,000 --> 01:26:59,360
Speaker 17: if israel hood withdrawn from Lebanon. That doesn't necessarily mean

1565
01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:00,920
Speaker 17: that all parties are accepted as the border.

1566
01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:02,640
Speaker 4: They don't, but it is blue line for now.

1567
01:27:03,080 --> 01:27:07,320
Speaker 17: The unfl have been in Lebanon since nineteen seventy eight.

1568
01:27:07,960 --> 01:27:08,720
Speaker 4: That was one of the.

1569
01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:11,040
Speaker 17: Times when israelevated Lebanon. At that point they were looking

1570
01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:15,040
Speaker 17: for the PO. Yeah, I think the PLO had crossed

1571
01:27:15,080 --> 01:27:19,080
Speaker 17: over from Lebanon to attack and massacre people in Israel.

1572
01:27:19,240 --> 01:27:21,720
Speaker 17: Right at which point Israel then decided to just go

1573
01:27:21,840 --> 01:27:26,439
Speaker 17: hog and in fully invade Lebanon seventy eight, in invaded again

1574
01:27:26,520 --> 01:27:30,080
Speaker 17: in eighty two while UNIFIL were there, and it sort

1575
01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:32,679
Speaker 17: of bypassed uniful position to that point. And it doesn't

1576
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:35,760
Speaker 17: mean that people didn't die in these invasions uniform troops

1577
01:27:35,960 --> 01:27:38,759
Speaker 17: of peacekeepers, because they did, right, Like it's a dangerous

1578
01:27:38,760 --> 01:27:39,200
Speaker 17: place to.

1579
01:27:39,160 --> 01:27:41,479
Speaker 5: Be Also, like eighty two was like the saber Chatila massacre,

1580
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:45,120
Speaker 5: like yes, like I was just like hideous Israeli massacres

1581
01:27:45,160 --> 01:27:48,600
Speaker 5: of refugee camps, which the kind of thing that like

1582
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:52,080
Speaker 5: used to cause more anger in the US that it

1583
01:27:52,120 --> 01:27:53,000
Speaker 5: did now.

1584
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:56,439
Speaker 17: Like yeah, now it's another day that ends in why right,

1585
01:27:57,240 --> 01:28:00,720
Speaker 17: you know the BOMBDA hospital again. It's a year of

1586
01:28:00,760 --> 01:28:05,160
Speaker 17: bombing hospitals now and it doesn't seem to register anymore,

1587
01:28:05,320 --> 01:28:09,160
Speaker 17: doesn't you know, make the headlines? Yeah, in eighty two,

1588
01:28:09,479 --> 01:28:14,200
Speaker 17: Israel bombed compound, and it took Israel until the year

1589
01:28:14,240 --> 01:28:19,160
Speaker 17: two thousand to quote unquote withdraw from Lebanon. And at

1590
01:28:19,160 --> 01:28:21,040
Speaker 17: that point that was when the blue line was drawn.

1591
01:28:21,120 --> 01:28:23,600
Speaker 17: Right during that time, before two thousand, it wasn't just

1592
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:26,000
Speaker 17: the IDF that was operating in the area. You also

1593
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:30,440
Speaker 17: had the South Lebanese Army. I don't like the division

1594
01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:33,160
Speaker 17: of groups in this part of the world exclusively along

1595
01:28:33,200 --> 01:28:35,679
Speaker 17: religious lines, because I think that doesn't entirely explain things

1596
01:28:35,680 --> 01:28:39,200
Speaker 17: always and I think it's like a very analyst brain

1597
01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:42,080
Speaker 17: way of seeing things, like to be like, oh, these

1598
01:28:42,080 --> 01:28:43,680
Speaker 17: are the sites and they do this, the sort of

1599
01:28:43,720 --> 01:28:46,840
Speaker 17: sunnies and they do this. But the SLA is a

1600
01:28:46,880 --> 01:28:51,000
Speaker 17: majority Christian organization and like it began as its own

1601
01:28:51,040 --> 01:28:53,880
Speaker 17: independent thing in the Civil War Lebanon, but it became

1602
01:28:53,880 --> 01:28:56,559
Speaker 17: more or lesson it's really proxy, right, it's certainly in

1603
01:28:56,600 --> 01:29:00,000
Speaker 17: this area and the UN caused them. It's really different

1604
01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:03,320
Speaker 17: fact forces, which is kind of a bold move from

1605
01:29:03,360 --> 01:29:06,840
Speaker 17: the UN. Actually, like yeah, to just say it. Of course,

1606
01:29:06,840 --> 01:29:09,360
Speaker 17: saying it and doing it is another thing. But like

1607
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:12,519
Speaker 17: during the time from eighty two to two thousand, it's

1608
01:29:12,520 --> 01:29:16,679
Speaker 17: relevated multiple times, right, including in nineteen ninety six, when

1609
01:29:16,920 --> 01:29:18,880
Speaker 17: just in the year of nineteen ninety six it's rail

1610
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:23,200
Speaker 17: fired on uniform peacekeepers two hundred and seventy times. So like,

1611
01:29:24,040 --> 01:29:27,960
Speaker 17: I think that's like every weekday for the entire year.

1612
01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:30,040
Speaker 17: To put things in perspective, you know, like if they

1613
01:29:30,040 --> 01:29:34,559
Speaker 17: took weekends off, they fired on them every weekday, including

1614
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:38,800
Speaker 17: shelling a uniform compound after the withdrawal in two thousand withdrawal,

1615
01:29:39,160 --> 01:29:42,200
Speaker 17: uniform stasks of peacekeeping, monitoring the withdrawal and assisting the

1616
01:29:42,280 --> 01:29:44,880
Speaker 17: Lebanese government in restoring it for authority in the area,

1617
01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:48,160
Speaker 17: and a UN mandate seventeen oh one two thousand and six,

1618
01:29:48,439 --> 01:29:52,040
Speaker 17: it's relevated again and eventually it's sort of ground to

1619
01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:54,360
Speaker 17: a stand still that time, ground to stand on top

1620
01:29:54,400 --> 01:29:57,080
Speaker 17: of a massive pile of civilian bodies, as it tends

1621
01:29:57,120 --> 01:30:01,519
Speaker 17: to do. Right, they bombay route in. I remember that

1622
01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:04,920
Speaker 17: I was I was traveling in the Middle East in.

1623
01:30:04,840 --> 01:30:05,639
Speaker 4: Two thousand and six.

1624
01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:09,200
Speaker 17: I remember just being like, oh, this is It's one

1625
01:30:09,320 --> 01:30:11,280
Speaker 17: thing to watch war on TV when you're at home,

1626
01:30:11,320 --> 01:30:13,360
Speaker 17: but when you're that little bit closer, and it's people

1627
01:30:13,360 --> 01:30:16,760
Speaker 17: who are like my cousin is there, my brother is there,

1628
01:30:17,080 --> 01:30:19,639
Speaker 17: A good school friend of mine was within Beiru.

1629
01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:20,559
Speaker 6: I remember like.

1630
01:30:21,960 --> 01:30:24,120
Speaker 17: It was one of my earlier experiences of just being

1631
01:30:24,160 --> 01:30:27,320
Speaker 17: like this is horrific and there's nothing we can do,

1632
01:30:27,560 --> 01:30:30,040
Speaker 17: Like no one seems to care. No one's going to

1633
01:30:30,080 --> 01:30:33,680
Speaker 17: stop them, and like here we are getting on for

1634
01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:35,880
Speaker 17: two decades later, and in fact, no one has stopped them.

1635
01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:37,840
Speaker 17: They're still doing it. Talking of things that no one

1636
01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:41,120
Speaker 17: can stop. Yeah, no one can stop the relentless march

1637
01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:43,040
Speaker 17: of capitalism. And that is why we now have to

1638
01:30:43,080 --> 01:30:44,640
Speaker 17: pivot to advertisements.

1639
01:30:54,120 --> 01:30:54,679
Speaker 4: We are back.

1640
01:30:55,479 --> 01:30:58,320
Speaker 17: So in two thousand and six, once again Israel killed

1641
01:30:58,320 --> 01:31:00,880
Speaker 17: you and peacekeepers right. Perhaps the most notable incident is

1642
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:04,320
Speaker 17: when a precision guided bomb struck a bunker and which

1643
01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:08,639
Speaker 17: four UN peacekeepers were sheltering. They'd been shelled fourteen times

1644
01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:11,639
Speaker 17: that day. They had then gone to their bunker right

1645
01:31:11,800 --> 01:31:14,120
Speaker 17: to be protected from the shelling, at which point they

1646
01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:16,800
Speaker 17: received this precision guide a munition which killed four of them.

1647
01:31:17,600 --> 01:31:22,000
Speaker 17: The peacekeepers were from Austria, Canada, China and Finland. Later

1648
01:31:22,439 --> 01:31:24,800
Speaker 17: the UN sent like a quick reaction for US and

1649
01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:27,599
Speaker 17: a rescue team, which the IDF also shelled.

1650
01:31:28,120 --> 01:31:32,679
Speaker 4: Jesus Christ, Yeah.

1651
01:31:31,880 --> 01:31:34,920
Speaker 17: I think this may be the time to point out

1652
01:31:34,920 --> 01:31:37,559
Speaker 17: that like I think a lot of people are maybe hopeful,

1653
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:41,880
Speaker 17: and maybe it's true that like if Israel crosses a

1654
01:31:41,960 --> 01:31:46,280
Speaker 17: line with attacking like European people, that will matter more

1655
01:31:46,479 --> 01:31:48,960
Speaker 17: to the nation that the states and governments of the

1656
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:52,040
Speaker 17: world than it has done with killing Palestinian civilians. And

1657
01:31:52,080 --> 01:31:53,960
Speaker 17: to a degree, they might be right, like you might.

1658
01:31:54,280 --> 01:31:57,640
Speaker 17: You've had statements from a dozen or so countries that

1659
01:31:57,720 --> 01:32:01,840
Speaker 17: Israel shouldn't be attacking, but they're still getting this fire

1660
01:32:01,880 --> 01:32:04,640
Speaker 17: hose of money and weapons. Right, There's still been no

1661
01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:07,920
Speaker 17: actual accountability, and I think that will actually start them

1662
01:32:07,920 --> 01:32:10,719
Speaker 17: from doing what they're doing. That's not like the fault

1663
01:32:10,760 --> 01:32:13,680
Speaker 17: of the people on the ground in JUNI fill for

1664
01:32:13,680 --> 01:32:18,840
Speaker 17: the most part. Yeah, but nonetheless it's the case. It

1665
01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:20,840
Speaker 17: was also in that incident in two thousand and six,

1666
01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:24,160
Speaker 17: and I was talking about UNIFIL called the IDF ten

1667
01:32:24,240 --> 01:32:26,320
Speaker 17: times to ask them to stop shelling. And this bunker,

1668
01:32:26,360 --> 01:32:29,559
Speaker 17: by the way, I'm not talking about like concealed position, right,

1669
01:32:29,640 --> 01:32:31,880
Speaker 17: Like I've been in bunkers and I'm away for work

1670
01:32:31,960 --> 01:32:33,960
Speaker 17: that you might not be able to see very easily.

1671
01:32:34,120 --> 01:32:36,559
Speaker 17: This bad boy is painted bright white with the letters

1672
01:32:36,640 --> 01:32:40,559
Speaker 17: U N on it. Like it's incredibly well marked, it's

1673
01:32:40,600 --> 01:32:43,559
Speaker 17: impossible to miss, you know, it stands out like a sauta.

1674
01:32:43,960 --> 01:32:46,680
Speaker 17: That's where they drop their precision guide ammunition. There was

1675
01:32:46,720 --> 01:32:49,280
Speaker 17: also an instant in twenty ten. This might be one

1676
01:32:49,360 --> 01:32:52,440
Speaker 17: people remember, and this is one of the tree trimming incidents.

1677
01:32:52,920 --> 01:32:55,280
Speaker 17: So the IDF was trying to trim trees along the

1678
01:32:55,280 --> 01:32:58,680
Speaker 17: blue line and the Levelese military perceived them to have

1679
01:32:58,760 --> 01:33:01,840
Speaker 17: vented Lebanon. I'm sure the IDEAF perceived themselves to be

1680
01:33:01,880 --> 01:33:05,320
Speaker 17: inside Israel. The Idea's understanding of borders, as I said,

1681
01:33:05,439 --> 01:33:11,760
Speaker 17: is somewhat unique, and so Indonesian UNIFIL troops were there.

1682
01:33:12,040 --> 01:33:14,639
Speaker 17: This is a particularly interesting incident. The Indonesian troops seem

1683
01:33:14,640 --> 01:33:16,599
Speaker 17: to be pretty popular in Lebanon. From what I can tell,

1684
01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:20,080
Speaker 17: there are forty one nations that take part in UNIFIL right,

1685
01:33:20,479 --> 01:33:25,920
Speaker 17: but there are large contingents of Spanish, French, German, Italian,

1686
01:33:26,280 --> 01:33:30,160
Speaker 17: Irish peacekeepers and Indonesian and nepoally peacekeepers as well. The

1687
01:33:30,200 --> 01:33:35,320
Speaker 17: Indonesians are interesting because the government doesn't recognize Israel and

1688
01:33:35,400 --> 01:33:38,479
Speaker 17: so they have no diplomacy like I don't quite know

1689
01:33:38,520 --> 01:33:39,400
Speaker 17: how they manage that.

1690
01:33:39,479 --> 01:33:40,360
Speaker 4: Because as we'll get.

1691
01:33:40,240 --> 01:33:44,440
Speaker 17: Into beautiful, it's controlled by this thing called a tripartite mechanism,

1692
01:33:45,080 --> 01:33:48,160
Speaker 17: whereby they have to agree on almost everything with the

1693
01:33:48,240 --> 01:33:50,960
Speaker 17: government of Lebanon or the military of Lebanese Army and

1694
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:55,240
Speaker 17: the IDF, which is it's kind of classic un right.

1695
01:33:55,280 --> 01:33:58,080
Speaker 17: You have these people there who are positioned to do

1696
01:33:58,160 --> 01:34:02,240
Speaker 17: something really important right now, which is to stop the

1697
01:34:02,280 --> 01:34:05,680
Speaker 17: IDF doing in Lebanon what he's done in Gaza, but

1698
01:34:05,720 --> 01:34:08,000
Speaker 17: they've managed to engineer themselves into a situation where they

1699
01:34:08,160 --> 01:34:10,559
Speaker 17: the IDF also has a veto on pretty much anything

1700
01:34:10,600 --> 01:34:13,519
Speaker 17: they can do. Yeah, which, like I was told, I

1701
01:34:13,560 --> 01:34:16,120
Speaker 17: spoke to someone who was very familiar with the operations

1702
01:34:16,120 --> 01:34:17,840
Speaker 17: of UNIFIL and they were trying to me for instance,

1703
01:34:17,840 --> 01:34:21,280
Speaker 17: so the IDF had been able to control what munitions

1704
01:34:21,320 --> 01:34:24,760
Speaker 17: they were able to bring into the country Jesus, which

1705
01:34:24,840 --> 01:34:27,840
Speaker 17: matters because, as we'll get into, one of the things

1706
01:34:27,880 --> 01:34:29,960
Speaker 17: that IDF likes to do is like literally knock on

1707
01:34:30,000 --> 01:34:32,559
Speaker 17: their front door with main battle tanks. Right that they

1708
01:34:32,560 --> 01:34:35,200
Speaker 17: actually knocked down the front gate of the uniform compound

1709
01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:38,880
Speaker 17: with a macarver tank. Certainly like knocking the front gate

1710
01:34:38,920 --> 01:34:40,960
Speaker 17: down with a mccarvery is one way of going about

1711
01:34:40,960 --> 01:34:42,840
Speaker 17: asking yeah, which is insane.

1712
01:34:43,280 --> 01:34:47,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, like these people just completely lost their minds.

1713
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:50,760
Speaker 17: Yeah, I mean that's that's the thing, right, Like, I

1714
01:34:50,800 --> 01:34:52,439
Speaker 17: think that's what I want folks to take away from

1715
01:34:52,479 --> 01:34:55,280
Speaker 17: this is that, like it's unlikely that the UN is

1716
01:34:55,320 --> 01:34:57,599
Speaker 17: going to go toe to toe with the IDF at

1717
01:34:57,600 --> 01:34:58,000
Speaker 17: this point.

1718
01:34:58,080 --> 01:34:58,280
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1719
01:34:58,400 --> 01:35:02,840
Speaker 17: No, that doesn't mean, as I've seen people saying that

1720
01:35:02,920 --> 01:35:06,120
Speaker 17: either they're there to spy for the IDF, they're not.

1721
01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:10,879
Speaker 17: The IDEF keeps killing them, yeah, in quite large numbers,

1722
01:35:11,000 --> 01:35:13,599
Speaker 17: Like I think forty two Irish people have been killed

1723
01:35:13,600 --> 01:35:18,080
Speaker 17: in the history of uniful deployments. Dozens from other countries too, right,

1724
01:35:18,680 --> 01:35:20,880
Speaker 17: Nor does this mean there's annet Yahu has called them

1725
01:35:20,960 --> 01:35:24,760
Speaker 17: quote hostages of Husbolla, which is kind of a ridiculous

1726
01:35:24,760 --> 01:35:26,680
Speaker 17: claim as many of the things that come out of

1727
01:35:26,680 --> 01:35:30,360
Speaker 17: his mouth are like they're also categorically not that they're

1728
01:35:30,360 --> 01:35:33,400
Speaker 17: hostages of the United Nations. And there's this system that

1729
01:35:33,439 --> 01:35:37,599
Speaker 17: it's backed itself into whereby two Beligerian parties can stop

1730
01:35:37,640 --> 01:35:39,960
Speaker 17: them doing anything they do. So I'll give you an

1731
01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:43,360
Speaker 17: example about twenty ten. K's right, these Indonesian uniform troops

1732
01:35:43,400 --> 01:35:46,760
Speaker 17: are trying to prevent the IDF from the Lebanese Army

1733
01:35:46,800 --> 01:35:50,000
Speaker 17: firing at each other. The IDEF is entering into Lebanon

1734
01:35:50,080 --> 01:35:52,000
Speaker 17: to cut down some trees, and in the perspective of

1735
01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:54,519
Speaker 17: the Lebanese army, I guess, they started throwing insults on

1736
01:35:54,560 --> 01:35:57,120
Speaker 17: one another, and soon enough they start shooting each other.

1737
01:35:57,479 --> 01:36:00,640
Speaker 17: So two Indonesian peacekeepers. There was a video of this

1738
01:36:00,840 --> 01:36:04,479
Speaker 17: that went around for a while. So the Indonesians decide

1739
01:36:04,479 --> 01:36:05,720
Speaker 17: that basically there's nothing.

1740
01:36:05,439 --> 01:36:05,880
Speaker 5: We can do.

1741
01:36:06,200 --> 01:36:08,040
Speaker 17: They're going to shoot at each other, and that they

1742
01:36:08,080 --> 01:36:12,160
Speaker 17: decide to withdraw, which probably isn't the best. They're like,

1743
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:14,799
Speaker 17: you know that they're not keeping peace by force, I guess,

1744
01:36:14,920 --> 01:36:18,479
Speaker 17: but they basically decide there's nothing they can do. They

1745
01:36:18,479 --> 01:36:22,040
Speaker 17: decide to pull out. Local people construct a roadblock to

1746
01:36:22,120 --> 01:36:24,400
Speaker 17: try and make them stay and prevent the IDEA from

1747
01:36:24,479 --> 01:36:25,160
Speaker 17: entering Lebanon.

1748
01:36:27,000 --> 01:36:27,920
Speaker 4: This happens a lot.

1749
01:36:28,240 --> 01:36:32,400
Speaker 17: This is like you'll see this happening, and this happened

1750
01:36:32,400 --> 01:36:34,000
Speaker 17: in various Like I'm going to get into some other

1751
01:36:34,080 --> 01:36:37,760
Speaker 17: un situations where this has happened, right, But the two

1752
01:36:37,920 --> 01:36:40,800
Speaker 17: peacekeepers get separated from their unit. This is a video

1753
01:36:40,880 --> 01:36:43,720
Speaker 17: that kind of went around at the time. Like I'm

1754
01:36:43,720 --> 01:36:46,760
Speaker 17: sure they're genuinely afraid at that point. Right in the video,

1755
01:36:46,760 --> 01:36:48,320
Speaker 17: they're being helped by local folks and they end up

1756
01:36:48,320 --> 01:36:51,120
Speaker 17: getting in a taxi to like leave and come back

1757
01:36:51,160 --> 01:36:55,000
Speaker 17: to their base, and which like I'm sure they were

1758
01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:57,040
Speaker 17: in a pretty shitty they were having a bad yeah. Yeah,

1759
01:36:57,200 --> 01:37:00,400
Speaker 17: And to quote Major General A. Lam Pelgamne, who is

1760
01:37:00,439 --> 01:37:02,800
Speaker 17: a French officer who's uniform commander from two thousand and

1761
01:37:02,800 --> 01:37:05,200
Speaker 17: four to two thousand and seven, quite the problem is

1762
01:37:05,240 --> 01:37:07,519
Speaker 17: in such cases as this, if you intervene to protect

1763
01:37:07,560 --> 01:37:09,839
Speaker 17: the IDF, for instance, you know it will be accused

1764
01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:12,519
Speaker 17: by Husbulla or the people of protecting the Israelis and

1765
01:37:12,520 --> 01:37:13,559
Speaker 17: collaborating with the enemy.

1766
01:37:13,960 --> 01:37:14,559
Speaker 4: The other side.

1767
01:37:14,600 --> 01:37:16,639
Speaker 17: If we do the same with the Lebanese, it's able

1768
01:37:16,640 --> 01:37:20,599
Speaker 17: to accuse the unifor of collaborating with Husbula. So like, yes,

1769
01:37:20,680 --> 01:37:24,920
Speaker 17: it will in the situation that we're seeing currently, Like

1770
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:28,719
Speaker 17: I think, obviously, like what Israel thinks and says doesn't

1771
01:37:28,720 --> 01:37:31,680
Speaker 17: really have much credibility anymore because they're ruled by this

1772
01:37:31,720 --> 01:37:32,759
Speaker 17: tripartite mechanism.

1773
01:37:32,840 --> 01:37:34,280
Speaker 4: There's really very little they can do.

1774
01:37:34,680 --> 01:37:38,400
Speaker 17: Yeah, they can fire people if they're fired upon, but

1775
01:37:38,760 --> 01:37:43,800
Speaker 17: the IDEF isn't like engaging them in small arms combat. Right,

1776
01:37:43,960 --> 01:37:47,759
Speaker 17: They're lobbing artillery shelves into their compound. They're firing smoke,

1777
01:37:48,240 --> 01:37:52,360
Speaker 17: they're bashing down their walls with Caterpillar armored bulldozers. The

1778
01:37:52,479 --> 01:37:57,080
Speaker 17: IDF loves an armor bulldozer. Yeah, because I mean you

1779
01:37:57,080 --> 01:37:58,840
Speaker 17: can probably join the dots on why the IDF loves

1780
01:37:58,880 --> 01:38:01,240
Speaker 17: a armored bulldozer. You know that they're in the business

1781
01:38:01,240 --> 01:38:05,360
Speaker 17: of knocking stuff down, I guess, And yeah, going into

1782
01:38:05,479 --> 01:38:08,519
Speaker 17: urban areas and disturbing people's homes. That's I'm sure other

1783
01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:10,720
Speaker 17: folks have vomorable though this too. Just the IDF is

1784
01:38:10,800 --> 01:38:13,599
Speaker 17: kind of well known for using these things. They shot

1785
01:38:13,640 --> 01:38:17,000
Speaker 17: down an observation tower last week which had two peace

1786
01:38:17,080 --> 01:38:19,439
Speaker 17: keepers in it, and obviously those people were injured because

1787
01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:23,639
Speaker 17: that tower got shot down. But like they're not fully

1788
01:38:23,680 --> 01:38:26,679
Speaker 17: attacking them enough that those peacekeepers would like defend themselves

1789
01:38:26,840 --> 01:38:30,000
Speaker 17: or their their positions. And I think if people are

1790
01:38:30,040 --> 01:38:34,040
Speaker 17: like hoping that somehow like an engagement between peacekeepers and

1791
01:38:34,160 --> 01:38:37,240
Speaker 17: the IDF will be what causes accountability, I don't think

1792
01:38:37,240 --> 01:38:37,880
Speaker 17: that's going to happen.

1793
01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:40,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, And for like for the UN to actually like

1794
01:38:41,800 --> 01:38:46,400
Speaker 5: really seriously intervene in a world like this, it takes

1795
01:38:46,479 --> 01:38:48,680
Speaker 5: one of the UN Security Council members being like we

1796
01:38:48,760 --> 01:38:50,880
Speaker 5: will send our own troops. That's like how the UN

1797
01:38:50,880 --> 01:38:53,559
Speaker 5: got involved in Korea, right, Yeah, Like the US was

1798
01:38:53,600 --> 01:38:55,240
Speaker 5: like fuck it, we're gonna send an army there, and

1799
01:38:55,360 --> 01:38:58,320
Speaker 5: like Russia is not going to like send an army.

1800
01:38:58,840 --> 01:39:01,400
Speaker 5: They are significantly too busy the invading Ukraine and selling

1801
01:39:01,439 --> 01:39:03,800
Speaker 5: natural gas to Israel to do anything. China is not

1802
01:39:03,840 --> 01:39:06,080
Speaker 5: going to do it because there is real second largest

1803
01:39:06,080 --> 01:39:09,439
Speaker 5: trading partner and they don't give a shit. Like no, no, no,

1804
01:39:09,479 --> 01:39:14,479
Speaker 5: one's actually going to like send troops to like back

1805
01:39:14,560 --> 01:39:17,600
Speaker 5: some kind of like UN mandate to like stop the

1806
01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:20,160
Speaker 5: Disraelis from doing this. Like that's just like not even

1807
01:39:20,400 --> 01:39:22,400
Speaker 5: if the Israelis were to just start killing peace keepers,

1808
01:39:22,400 --> 01:39:24,160
Speaker 5: like it's not going to happen. It's never happened any

1809
01:39:24,160 --> 01:39:27,120
Speaker 5: other time. The Israelis have killed peacekeepers.

1810
01:39:26,840 --> 01:39:32,080
Speaker 17: Yeah, like peacekeepers have in other places for yeah that

1811
01:39:32,160 --> 01:39:35,800
Speaker 17: for instance, Irish peacekeepers in Congo, right or the Canadians

1812
01:39:36,160 --> 01:39:39,880
Speaker 17: and indeed like the uniform have engaged in combat before.

1813
01:39:39,960 --> 01:39:43,040
Speaker 17: But I think the chances of them like stopping the

1814
01:39:43,080 --> 01:39:45,320
Speaker 17: IDF invasion or extremely slim.

1815
01:39:45,439 --> 01:39:45,679
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1816
01:39:45,720 --> 01:39:47,439
Speaker 5: Like and if you're finding a state that is just

1817
01:39:47,640 --> 01:39:51,120
Speaker 5: directly an American proxy, like there's no way yeah, it's

1818
01:39:51,160 --> 01:39:53,960
Speaker 5: like I don't even think like the seventies n AM,

1819
01:39:54,080 --> 01:39:56,439
Speaker 5: like not a line movement like dominated UN could have

1820
01:39:56,439 --> 01:40:00,479
Speaker 5: pulled something like that off. And like this UN will not.

1821
01:40:01,960 --> 01:40:05,240
Speaker 17: Like the UN will issue strongly worded statements. The UN

1822
01:40:05,280 --> 01:40:08,000
Speaker 17: will say it's deeply concerned. And I imagine that like

1823
01:40:08,600 --> 01:40:12,640
Speaker 17: if you're just like a troop and then you're on

1824
01:40:12,720 --> 01:40:15,240
Speaker 17: your unifil. So most of the at least for the Irish,

1825
01:40:15,240 --> 01:40:18,240
Speaker 17: most of people there have volunteered to be there. An Ireland,

1826
01:40:18,280 --> 01:40:20,519
Speaker 17: it's probably among at least among European country is a

1827
01:40:20,520 --> 01:40:23,360
Speaker 17: country that has strongest in its solidarity with Palestine for

1828
01:40:23,439 --> 01:40:26,840
Speaker 17: a long time. I'm sure it fucking sucks. I'm sure

1829
01:40:26,880 --> 01:40:29,479
Speaker 17: it really blows. Oh yeah, and what the IDEAF has

1830
01:40:29,520 --> 01:40:32,280
Speaker 17: done now is advanced past their like forward positions and

1831
01:40:32,560 --> 01:40:34,960
Speaker 17: the positions where people are being injured by shelling are

1832
01:40:34,960 --> 01:40:37,479
Speaker 17: the headquarters positions, So like if you imagine a triangle

1833
01:40:37,479 --> 01:40:39,320
Speaker 17: with a broad base of it at the front, they're

1834
01:40:39,640 --> 01:40:43,960
Speaker 17: shelling and sort of fighting around the headquarters positions. I'm

1835
01:40:43,960 --> 01:40:45,760
Speaker 17: sure if you've been spending that much of your life

1836
01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:48,160
Speaker 17: as a soldier, you know, like and you're watching something

1837
01:40:48,200 --> 01:40:52,000
Speaker 17: terrible happen you'd want to fight that. Yeah, you're just

1838
01:40:52,040 --> 01:40:56,160
Speaker 17: sitting around Like that doesn't mean that it's bad that

1839
01:40:56,280 --> 01:41:00,679
Speaker 17: they're there, No, Yeah, Like any form of accountability will

1840
01:41:00,720 --> 01:41:03,719
Speaker 17: make it more accountable than what happened in Gaza, right, Yeah,

1841
01:41:03,800 --> 01:41:05,800
Speaker 17: or at least it will make whatever.

1842
01:41:05,439 --> 01:41:08,240
Speaker 4: Happens more visible than what happened in Gaza, and.

1843
01:41:08,439 --> 01:41:12,040
Speaker 5: It probably legitimately has slowed the Israelis down, Like, yeah,

1844
01:41:12,240 --> 01:41:13,800
Speaker 5: this is what would happen if there was nothing there

1845
01:41:13,840 --> 01:41:16,400
Speaker 5: and they could just run rough shod, which is you know,

1846
01:41:16,520 --> 01:41:18,000
Speaker 5: get like what we've see in Gaza and what we've

1847
01:41:18,000 --> 01:41:18,720
Speaker 5: seen in the West Bank.

1848
01:41:18,840 --> 01:41:21,360
Speaker 17: Yeah, Like, I mean their strategy in Gaza has been

1849
01:41:22,080 --> 01:41:24,160
Speaker 17: first of all, like militarily in air to right, Like

1850
01:41:24,479 --> 01:41:27,320
Speaker 17: they've lost control of areas in their rear because aside

1851
01:41:27,320 --> 01:41:29,800
Speaker 17: from just killing lots of people and flattening cities, it

1852
01:41:29,840 --> 01:41:32,720
Speaker 17: didn't seem to be really doing much in it in

1853
01:41:32,760 --> 01:41:36,320
Speaker 17: like an actual sort of targeted manner, and like, yeah,

1854
01:41:36,520 --> 01:41:39,559
Speaker 17: just the presence of peacekeepers means that you can't just

1855
01:41:39,640 --> 01:41:42,639
Speaker 17: carpet bomb in advance, you know, fireing anything that moves.

1856
01:41:43,000 --> 01:41:45,840
Speaker 17: This area between the Latini River and the Blue Line,

1857
01:41:45,840 --> 01:41:49,920
Speaker 17: civilians have largely left because there's intense combat going on there. Right,

1858
01:41:50,439 --> 01:41:54,080
Speaker 17: there's Balla present there and obviously the IDEF now present

1859
01:41:54,120 --> 01:41:57,599
Speaker 17: there and they're fighting, so like people can leave, they've left.

1860
01:41:58,000 --> 01:42:01,280
Speaker 17: So having not that civil millions have really slowly is

1861
01:42:01,360 --> 01:42:04,400
Speaker 17: raised down in Gaza. It been a Certainian casualties don't

1862
01:42:04,400 --> 01:42:06,880
Speaker 17: seem to be something they care about. But yeah, having

1863
01:42:06,880 --> 01:42:10,439
Speaker 17: these folks there has stopped them just just carpet bombing

1864
01:42:10,439 --> 01:42:13,160
Speaker 17: the area, which is a good thing. Yeah, something that's

1865
01:42:13,200 --> 01:42:17,920
Speaker 17: not a good thing. It's our obligation to pivot adverts again, oh, which.

1866
01:42:17,680 --> 01:42:28,200
Speaker 4: We will do. All right, we're back.

1867
01:42:29,240 --> 01:42:31,839
Speaker 17: Yeah, I guess, like I've seen it from a few people.

1868
01:42:31,960 --> 01:42:35,000
Speaker 17: I think it's either the people who discovered like international

1869
01:42:35,600 --> 01:42:39,639
Speaker 17: politics a year ago and previously like hadn't really thought

1870
01:42:39,680 --> 01:42:42,120
Speaker 17: about it, or from the kind of nativist right the

1871
01:42:42,160 --> 01:42:45,120
Speaker 17: idea that like they shouldn't be there, Like I've seen

1872
01:42:45,160 --> 01:42:48,080
Speaker 17: it from like some kind of nativist type folks about Ireland,

1873
01:42:48,080 --> 01:42:50,120
Speaker 17: like why are the Irish they're risking their lives for

1874
01:42:50,160 --> 01:42:51,160
Speaker 17: the for the Lebanese?

1875
01:42:51,200 --> 01:42:52,720
Speaker 4: What the fuck the Lebanese embody for them?

1876
01:42:53,200 --> 01:42:56,600
Speaker 5: I have such good news for you about who was

1877
01:42:56,640 --> 01:42:57,840
Speaker 5: training the IRA.

1878
01:42:57,680 --> 01:42:58,520
Speaker 4: In the seventies.

1879
01:43:00,320 --> 01:43:02,040
Speaker 5: There are a lot of a lot of guys with

1880
01:43:02,040 --> 01:43:07,240
Speaker 5: Irish accents in Becca Valley trading can in the seventies,

1881
01:43:07,600 --> 01:43:10,640
Speaker 5: So you know, they really have actually done things for you.

1882
01:43:10,720 --> 01:43:12,000
Speaker 5: It's one of the things people do this with like

1883
01:43:12,080 --> 01:43:14,000
Speaker 5: the US or there's like one of the Israeli lines

1884
01:43:14,080 --> 01:43:15,880
Speaker 5: like ah, what is one of Palestinians ever done for

1885
01:43:15,880 --> 01:43:19,320
Speaker 5: black people. It's like, well, like a lot of people

1886
01:43:19,439 --> 01:43:21,040
Speaker 5: who got a lot of trading with.

1887
01:43:21,400 --> 01:43:26,439
Speaker 18: Yellow in the seventies, like Jenny are for better and

1888
01:43:26,479 --> 01:43:29,040
Speaker 18: for worse, because like there's also groups that they trained

1889
01:43:29,080 --> 01:43:32,280
Speaker 18: that like they probably shouldn't have like a doubt a

1890
01:43:32,280 --> 01:43:34,679
Speaker 18: lot of the groups that became the Fighting Vanguard, which

1891
01:43:34,760 --> 01:43:38,479
Speaker 18: was okay, it's I want to scar the Fighting Vanguard.

1892
01:43:38,920 --> 01:43:41,439
Speaker 5: The Fighting Vanguard were like a kind of built wing

1893
01:43:41,439 --> 01:43:44,559
Speaker 5: of the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria. And like a bunch

1894
01:43:44,600 --> 01:43:47,160
Speaker 5: of those Fighting Vanguard guys who survived, so they do

1895
01:43:47,200 --> 01:43:48,840
Speaker 5: an uprising and I think it was eighty four, they

1896
01:43:48,920 --> 01:43:51,640
Speaker 5: like all get killed. Those people who survived go on

1897
01:43:51,680 --> 01:43:53,160
Speaker 5: to be some of the founding members of al Qaida.

1898
01:43:53,439 --> 01:43:56,880
Speaker 5: So not not always no great yeah, but you know

1899
01:43:57,400 --> 01:44:01,280
Speaker 5: the record like look one out of like twenty of

1900
01:44:01,320 --> 01:44:04,800
Speaker 5: the people you trained, going Haywires not great, but like

1901
01:44:04,880 --> 01:44:08,439
Speaker 5: you know, it's limited nineteen other ones, like it did

1902
01:44:08,479 --> 01:44:09,000
Speaker 5: pretty good.

1903
01:44:09,760 --> 01:44:12,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think Abdudjulam was in the Becka Valley for

1904
01:44:12,120 --> 01:44:15,120
Speaker 4: a while. Yeah. Yeah, lots of cadres of the of

1905
01:44:15,160 --> 01:44:17,000
Speaker 4: the PKK. Yeah, the PK was there.

1906
01:44:17,080 --> 01:44:17,240
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1907
01:44:17,320 --> 01:44:20,719
Speaker 17: Yeah, Kurds died actually, like yeah, there's a good article

1908
01:44:20,720 --> 01:44:22,759
Speaker 17: called the Kurds who Died for Palestine I was reading

1909
01:44:22,760 --> 01:44:26,360
Speaker 17: recently because often you'll see this like idea that the

1910
01:44:26,439 --> 01:44:28,920
Speaker 17: Kurds are like inherently like Zionists, and I don't think

1911
01:44:28,920 --> 01:44:29,280
Speaker 17: that's true.

1912
01:44:29,360 --> 01:44:31,360
Speaker 5: No, Like yeah, like that they fought at the Eleveties

1913
01:44:31,360 --> 01:44:33,880
Speaker 5: Civil War on the side of the Pls, Like yeah, yeah,

1914
01:44:34,040 --> 01:44:35,720
Speaker 5: they were in because they were in Beca Valley in

1915
01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:36,920
Speaker 5: the Plos trading camps.

1916
01:44:37,040 --> 01:44:39,519
Speaker 17: Like yeah, they didn't really have much choice to be back.

1917
01:44:40,160 --> 01:44:41,400
Speaker 17: Israel was coming for them.

1918
01:44:41,560 --> 01:44:43,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, and like like is Israel is one of the

1919
01:44:43,240 --> 01:44:46,559
Speaker 5: coaches that helped kidnap the dula Archelote Like yeah, that's

1920
01:44:46,960 --> 01:44:48,720
Speaker 5: really not Presioneds at all.

1921
01:44:49,080 --> 01:44:51,439
Speaker 17: No, this is one of those things that you'll see

1922
01:44:51,439 --> 01:44:53,439
Speaker 17: from like I didn't have the bot account, so they're

1923
01:44:53,439 --> 01:44:55,960
Speaker 17: just people with very unoriginal opinions who like they treat

1924
01:44:56,080 --> 01:44:59,160
Speaker 17: kind of Turkish state lines when Israel build settlements in

1925
01:44:59,160 --> 01:45:00,360
Speaker 17: a West Bank and guards that they.

1926
01:45:00,280 --> 01:45:01,679
Speaker 4: Do it with steel that comes from Turkey.

1927
01:45:01,840 --> 01:45:05,440
Speaker 17: Ye, So yeah, maybe treat those claims with some skepticism.

1928
01:45:06,000 --> 01:45:08,360
Speaker 17: If there's a gray wolf in bioeticularity.

1929
01:45:08,680 --> 01:45:11,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, there is a broader, more serious point there, which

1930
01:45:11,520 --> 01:45:15,960
Speaker 5: is that like the actual physical resources that the Israelis

1931
01:45:16,280 --> 01:45:20,760
Speaker 5: use to physically build the occupation, right, those all come

1932
01:45:20,800 --> 01:45:22,760
Speaker 5: from places and it's not all US, And I think

1933
01:45:22,760 --> 01:45:25,640
Speaker 5: people have this image that like, well like and it

1934
01:45:25,720 --> 01:45:27,679
Speaker 5: is true the US, it's an unbelievable amount of money

1935
01:45:27,680 --> 01:45:31,800
Speaker 5: to Israel, but there's a lot of places where the

1936
01:45:31,920 --> 01:45:34,760
Speaker 5: Israelis are getting their ship form, right, like these really

1937
01:45:34,800 --> 01:45:36,400
Speaker 5: tech sector in the Israeli tech sector is one of

1938
01:45:36,439 --> 01:45:38,080
Speaker 5: the cores of the Israeli economy, and it is one

1939
01:45:38,120 --> 01:45:42,280
Speaker 5: of the cores of the Israeli occupation is almost entirely

1940
01:45:42,320 --> 01:45:45,800
Speaker 5: fueled by like semiconductors and stuff that they buy from China. Right,

1941
01:45:45,960 --> 01:45:49,360
Speaker 5: that's where all the physical technical infrastructure of this stuff

1942
01:45:49,360 --> 01:45:51,320
Speaker 5: comes from. I talked about it before about like Russian

1943
01:45:51,360 --> 01:45:55,040
Speaker 5: natural gas, Right, all of these countries, who will you know,

1944
01:45:55,160 --> 01:45:58,479
Speaker 5: talk all of this shit like and the un about Israel,

1945
01:45:59,120 --> 01:46:03,559
Speaker 5: like people's real political stances and what they're willing to

1946
01:46:03,600 --> 01:46:05,519
Speaker 5: send it to your really to the Israelis are not

1947
01:46:05,640 --> 01:46:07,720
Speaker 5: the same thing at all. And if you want to

1948
01:46:07,760 --> 01:46:10,720
Speaker 5: actually gauge how the occupation functions, it's because a lot

1949
01:46:10,760 --> 01:46:14,040
Speaker 5: of countries that nominally will be like, oh, we oppose

1950
01:46:14,080 --> 01:46:16,120
Speaker 5: it's really occupation. Well, didn't just send them all the

1951
01:46:16,120 --> 01:46:18,560
Speaker 5: fucking resources that they need to do the occupation.

1952
01:46:19,400 --> 01:46:21,280
Speaker 17: Yeah, and they don't get any heat unless it's like

1953
01:46:21,520 --> 01:46:23,480
Speaker 17: literal bombs bullets.

1954
01:46:23,080 --> 01:46:26,320
Speaker 5: Right, yeah, and even and even then, like lots of

1955
01:46:26,400 --> 01:46:30,760
Speaker 5: people like yeah, there's plenty of non us. I mean,

1956
01:46:30,800 --> 01:46:32,200
Speaker 5: the ukata's a lot of this too, right.

1957
01:46:32,280 --> 01:46:32,880
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1958
01:46:32,920 --> 01:46:35,000
Speaker 17: One of the things that IDF likes to do they

1959
01:46:35,000 --> 01:46:38,679
Speaker 17: haven't mentioned yet, it's mock air assaults of unifual positions,

1960
01:46:38,960 --> 01:46:41,879
Speaker 17: is christ Well, they'll fly in like a bombing formation

1961
01:46:42,720 --> 01:46:45,960
Speaker 17: just basically, I guess hayes them. I can't really think

1962
01:46:46,000 --> 01:46:48,760
Speaker 17: of a way to describe it, right, they's terror like

1963
01:46:48,800 --> 01:46:53,040
Speaker 17: it's a terror campaign. Yes, it's a very clear indication that,

1964
01:46:53,160 --> 01:46:56,160
Speaker 17: like any day, we could wipe you off the map. Right,

1965
01:46:56,560 --> 01:46:59,599
Speaker 17: And some of the uniform assets seem to have anti

1966
01:46:59,640 --> 01:47:02,679
Speaker 17: aircraft some of them don't, but even still like they

1967
01:47:02,880 --> 01:47:04,840
Speaker 17: you know, a determined attack by the idea of they've

1968
01:47:04,880 --> 01:47:07,920
Speaker 17: been in big trouble of course. So right now, I

1969
01:47:07,920 --> 01:47:10,960
Speaker 17: guess the situation we're in, according to the person who

1970
01:47:11,000 --> 01:47:14,879
Speaker 17: spoke to is that these positions Israel has advanced passed,

1971
01:47:14,880 --> 01:47:17,960
Speaker 17: like the peacekeepers there are still in their positions, right

1972
01:47:18,600 --> 01:47:22,320
Speaker 17: they have using their own funds, which I presume means

1973
01:47:22,360 --> 01:47:24,559
Speaker 17: like funds from the states of which they are part,

1974
01:47:25,280 --> 01:47:28,120
Speaker 17: fortified their positions and improve their positions like.

1975
01:47:28,160 --> 01:47:29,960
Speaker 5: With their own Jesus Christ.

1976
01:47:30,320 --> 01:47:34,559
Speaker 17: Ye, Well, the UN is supposed to provide positions for them.

1977
01:47:34,600 --> 01:47:37,240
Speaker 17: It's supposed to provide their rations, and it's supposed to

1978
01:47:37,240 --> 01:47:40,960
Speaker 17: provide weapons and vehicles for some other states that like

1979
01:47:41,080 --> 01:47:43,719
Speaker 17: kind of aren't up to I guess a modern standard.

1980
01:47:44,120 --> 01:47:47,240
Speaker 17: That's incidentally why you don't see it so much here,

1981
01:47:47,479 --> 01:47:49,280
Speaker 17: But in other parts of the world you often see

1982
01:47:49,320 --> 01:47:53,200
Speaker 17: troops on peacekeeping missions who like perhaps you haven't heard

1983
01:47:53,240 --> 01:47:55,639
Speaker 17: of that country's military before, right, Like, it's very common

1984
01:47:55,680 --> 01:47:57,680
Speaker 17: for like. Also, I think it is better that there

1985
01:47:57,720 --> 01:48:00,599
Speaker 17: are African peacekeepers in Africa than like white European peace

1986
01:48:00,760 --> 01:48:03,640
Speaker 17: like I think for historical and very obvious reasons.

1987
01:48:04,000 --> 01:48:05,880
Speaker 5: I will mention one of the places that sends a

1988
01:48:05,880 --> 01:48:07,960
Speaker 5: lot of piece of replay to places in nepoll And

1989
01:48:08,240 --> 01:48:11,000
Speaker 5: the record that police peacekeepers that are get are being

1990
01:48:11,040 --> 01:48:12,720
Speaker 5: set by booist governments.

1991
01:48:12,479 --> 01:48:18,920
Speaker 4: Are yeah good, not great. Yeah, you can google that.

1992
01:48:19,160 --> 01:48:23,280
Speaker 5: We've talked about this in Brazil at length, like sorry,

1993
01:48:23,120 --> 01:48:26,479
Speaker 5: Brazilian Nepolice cooperation in Haiti's shit show.

1994
01:48:26,960 --> 01:48:29,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it has not been good for the Haitian people.

1995
01:48:29,680 --> 01:48:31,920
Speaker 17: I will say, like one of the things that happens

1996
01:48:31,920 --> 01:48:34,280
Speaker 17: a lot is the UN pays them a certain rate

1997
01:48:34,360 --> 01:48:36,680
Speaker 17: for peacekeeping I guess or UN conversate certain right, which

1998
01:48:36,680 --> 01:48:38,920
Speaker 17: is often a lot more than those militaries pay their soldiers.

1999
01:48:38,960 --> 01:48:41,400
Speaker 17: So it's like a source of income for the military

2000
01:48:41,520 --> 01:48:43,120
Speaker 17: view see what I mean, They can like skim off

2001
01:48:43,160 --> 01:48:46,920
Speaker 17: the percentage. But these guys have at their own expense,

2002
01:48:46,960 --> 01:48:51,320
Speaker 17: fortify their positions at their own expense, supplied themselves with

2003
01:48:51,520 --> 01:48:53,559
Speaker 17: rations so that they've they've bought a ton of food

2004
01:48:53,560 --> 01:48:56,880
Speaker 17: and water. It's what that means in like non nerdy terms.

2005
01:48:57,160 --> 01:48:59,960
Speaker 17: So they're pretty well stocked up, right, Like they're bunked up.

2006
01:49:00,040 --> 01:49:02,799
Speaker 5: Yeah, But it's also it's also like this US operation

2007
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:05,200
Speaker 5: is being equipped in the same way that like American

2008
01:49:05,280 --> 01:49:07,600
Speaker 5: school teachers make sure their classrooms have pencils.

2009
01:49:08,320 --> 01:49:09,160
Speaker 4: That's a perfection.

2010
01:49:09,840 --> 01:49:14,600
Speaker 3: What the fuck is going on here? Yeah, Jesus Christ.

2011
01:49:14,600 --> 01:49:17,160
Speaker 17: Maybe maybe the state not the best way of organizing

2012
01:49:17,200 --> 01:49:19,120
Speaker 17: human society, is what people are saying.

2013
01:49:19,240 --> 01:49:21,800
Speaker 5: Look, we need to fuse the two and finally bring

2014
01:49:21,840 --> 01:49:24,879
Speaker 5: about my lifelong dream of armed teachers union pickets.

2015
01:49:26,439 --> 01:49:28,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, bring it back to like Blair Mountain, but for teachers.

2016
01:49:28,680 --> 01:49:33,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, Look, don't armed teachers armed teachers unions. Yeah, we

2017
01:49:33,520 --> 01:49:39,400
Speaker 5: can finally get bipartisan agreement on Yeah, they're pretty well

2018
01:49:39,400 --> 01:49:42,800
Speaker 5: hold up, like like American preppers dream of themselves being

2019
01:49:42,880 --> 01:49:46,840
Speaker 5: right surrounded by ammunition and marise, but at some point

2020
01:49:46,880 --> 01:49:48,960
Speaker 5: they're going to run out of food and water, and

2021
01:49:49,000 --> 01:49:51,240
Speaker 5: at some point that means that they're going to have

2022
01:49:51,280 --> 01:49:55,760
Speaker 5: to resupply. Right now on I'm just going to check

2023
01:49:55,760 --> 01:49:58,320
Speaker 5: the date very quickly, And UNIFIL is on Twitter by

2024
01:49:58,320 --> 01:50:00,320
Speaker 5: the way, if you want to do you want to

2025
01:50:00,360 --> 01:50:01,960
Speaker 5: follow them there they kind of give a daily update

2026
01:50:02,000 --> 01:50:06,639
Speaker 5: on what's going on. On the thirteenth of October, UNIFIL

2027
01:50:06,840 --> 01:50:10,040
Speaker 5: said that the IDF sold just stopped a critical uniform

2028
01:50:10,040 --> 01:50:12,640
Speaker 5: logistical movement, which could well be like an attempt to

2029
01:50:12,720 --> 01:50:16,120
Speaker 5: resupply of one of these places. Right, at some point

2030
01:50:16,640 --> 01:50:18,720
Speaker 5: they're going to have to resupply them, either by air

2031
01:50:19,080 --> 01:50:21,920
Speaker 5: or by land. And I think that is when we

2032
01:50:22,000 --> 01:50:26,920
Speaker 5: will most likely see like exactly how hard the IDF

2033
01:50:26,960 --> 01:50:29,400
Speaker 5: wants to go against like in this case trucks full

2034
01:50:29,400 --> 01:50:33,280
Speaker 5: of MRIs right, Like, yeah, previously they've got in standoffs,

2035
01:50:33,320 --> 01:50:36,040
Speaker 5: like a few years ago the French. The French have

2036
01:50:36,160 --> 01:50:38,360
Speaker 5: done some interesting stuff as part of the UNIFILM mission,

2037
01:50:38,560 --> 01:50:40,320
Speaker 5: Like in twenty ten they kind of went on a

2038
01:50:40,400 --> 01:50:44,479
Speaker 5: unilateral operation without approval to look for her body. Yeah,

2039
01:50:44,760 --> 01:50:45,519
Speaker 5: not a great move.

2040
01:50:46,040 --> 01:50:47,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's wild.

2041
01:50:47,439 --> 01:50:49,559
Speaker 5: French forces at level not such an interesting thing because

2042
01:50:49,560 --> 01:50:52,479
Speaker 5: it's like you have inside of the French soul is

2043
01:50:52,600 --> 01:50:54,680
Speaker 5: warring at all times, two forces.

2044
01:50:54,760 --> 01:50:58,840
Speaker 4: It is it Receisy said, it's.

2045
01:50:57,880 --> 01:51:01,000
Speaker 5: Like they because they hate Buzzled so much, but they

2046
01:51:01,000 --> 01:51:02,559
Speaker 5: are also so anti Semitic.

2047
01:51:03,520 --> 01:51:07,000
Speaker 4: This is an all times waring French.

2048
01:51:07,120 --> 01:51:09,240
Speaker 17: The nature of the French soul, the two wolves that

2049
01:51:09,240 --> 01:51:12,920
Speaker 17: live inside the French person. Yeah, well, in twenty ten,

2050
01:51:12,960 --> 01:51:17,479
Speaker 17: they were their Islamophobia was winning. They specifically they used

2051
01:51:17,520 --> 01:51:21,680
Speaker 17: sniffer dogs in people's homes, which Jesus is very disrespectful

2052
01:51:21,720 --> 01:51:23,400
Speaker 17: in culture in that part of the world.

2053
01:51:23,760 --> 01:51:25,680
Speaker 5: I mean also here I would be really pissed off

2054
01:51:25,680 --> 01:51:29,400
Speaker 5: if fucking a bomb squad like getting started running sniffer

2055
01:51:29,479 --> 01:51:32,679
Speaker 5: dogs around my apartment for sure, get out going through

2056
01:51:32,680 --> 01:51:34,679
Speaker 5: private property and doing things that they were They're supposed

2057
01:51:34,680 --> 01:51:36,840
Speaker 5: to operate with the Lebanese armed Forces, right, so they

2058
01:51:36,920 --> 01:51:40,240
Speaker 5: patrol alongside them. But in this case, the French decided

2059
01:51:40,240 --> 01:51:42,719
Speaker 5: they were just going to send it solo and obviously

2060
01:51:43,080 --> 01:51:45,639
Speaker 5: pissed a lot of people off. And it's really interesting

2061
01:51:45,680 --> 01:51:49,160
Speaker 5: to see people address their concerns. But was not interesting,

2062
01:51:49,200 --> 01:51:51,519
Speaker 5: I guess, but people address their concerns specifically with the

2063
01:51:51,560 --> 01:51:54,200
Speaker 5: French element of uniform rather than other elements of uniform,

2064
01:51:54,320 --> 01:51:56,879
Speaker 5: like for instance, Indonesia and seem to be pretty popular.

2065
01:51:57,200 --> 01:52:01,240
Speaker 5: The Indian element of unifil teaches weekly yoga classes, which

2066
01:52:01,280 --> 01:52:03,080
Speaker 5: are apparently becoming more and more popular.

2067
01:52:04,120 --> 01:52:05,320
Speaker 4: I've seen a bunch of videos.

2068
01:52:05,479 --> 01:52:08,479
Speaker 5: There's like like tiktoks of libertyes people in that area

2069
01:52:08,600 --> 01:52:10,320
Speaker 5: who speak English, and they all speak English with a

2070
01:52:10,320 --> 01:52:10,920
Speaker 5: Maris accent.

2071
01:52:10,960 --> 01:52:13,280
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, because so long it's great.

2072
01:52:13,080 --> 01:52:16,800
Speaker 17: Yeah yeah, yeah, Well the Irish have been there since seventies, right,

2073
01:52:16,920 --> 01:52:19,800
Speaker 17: Like I know of people who have two generations of

2074
01:52:19,800 --> 01:52:20,599
Speaker 17: their family who.

2075
01:52:20,520 --> 01:52:21,719
Speaker 4: Have been peacekeepers there.

2076
01:52:21,800 --> 01:52:24,760
Speaker 17: Yeah, I think for those people like it probably like

2077
01:52:24,800 --> 01:52:26,720
Speaker 17: over time being down, I'm sure they do develop a

2078
01:52:26,760 --> 01:52:29,559
Speaker 17: personal connection to the people who you know that they're

2079
01:52:29,600 --> 01:52:32,360
Speaker 17: around and the people whose communities they are protecting, and

2080
01:52:32,360 --> 01:52:35,640
Speaker 17: and like, I genuinely feel like it's probably really a

2081
01:52:35,680 --> 01:52:36,880
Speaker 17: shitty situation to be in.

2082
01:52:37,080 --> 01:52:38,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, being sort of locked in your base.

2083
01:52:39,160 --> 01:52:40,800
Speaker 17: That doesn't mean they should leave, right, I just want

2084
01:52:40,800 --> 01:52:42,200
Speaker 17: to end with like, and I know we want to

2085
01:52:42,200 --> 01:52:45,280
Speaker 17: talk about the Gourden Heights to twenty thirteen. Actually Austria

2086
01:52:45,320 --> 01:52:47,080
Speaker 17: pulled out of the Gourden Heights and Ireland had to

2087
01:52:47,080 --> 01:52:48,760
Speaker 17: deploy a bunch of people really quickly to.

2088
01:52:48,800 --> 01:52:49,800
Speaker 4: Kind of cover that area.

2089
01:52:49,880 --> 01:52:54,320
Speaker 17: But if we look at like streperlinka right where the

2090
01:52:54,439 --> 01:52:57,599
Speaker 17: UN could have prevented a genocide and did not. Yeah,

2091
01:52:57,680 --> 01:53:03,040
Speaker 17: the UN forces there withdrew, they surrendered and places were

2092
01:53:03,080 --> 01:53:07,320
Speaker 17: captured by the Serbs and then used as collateral to

2093
01:53:07,400 --> 01:53:10,000
Speaker 17: stop the UN doing anymore to prevent what and like

2094
01:53:10,800 --> 01:53:14,719
Speaker 17: some of the most horrific acts in human history happened.

2095
01:53:14,760 --> 01:53:19,040
Speaker 17: It's from Benika, right, just just disgusting, terrible stuff, and

2096
01:53:19,200 --> 01:53:22,800
Speaker 17: like hopefully the UN has learned from that hopefully, like

2097
01:53:22,880 --> 01:53:25,679
Speaker 17: individual nations. I think like in that case, it wasn't

2098
01:53:25,720 --> 01:53:27,320
Speaker 17: so much the UN as a whole. It's like the

2099
01:53:27,840 --> 01:53:30,120
Speaker 17: specific chain of command of those peacekeepers.

2100
01:53:30,160 --> 01:53:30,719
Speaker 4: I think they were.

2101
01:53:30,680 --> 01:53:32,760
Speaker 5: Dutch well, And like it's it's worth noting in that

2102
01:53:32,800 --> 01:53:34,400
Speaker 5: point too that like part of what's going on there

2103
01:53:34,479 --> 01:53:38,280
Speaker 5: is that like a lot of the European countries until

2104
01:53:38,479 --> 01:53:42,160
Speaker 5: well into the genocide were basically pro served because they

2105
01:53:42,200 --> 01:53:44,280
Speaker 5: saw the Serbs something that could like just cleanse the

2106
01:53:44,360 --> 01:53:45,280
Speaker 5: Muslims from Europe.

2107
01:53:45,400 --> 01:53:48,240
Speaker 4: Is like this is the explicit language that they're using, right.

2108
01:53:48,520 --> 01:53:50,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, And this is this has always been a problem

2109
01:53:50,439 --> 01:53:53,320
Speaker 5: with with UN missions, is like well half the time

2110
01:53:53,360 --> 01:53:55,479
Speaker 5: we try to stop a genocide, there's like some faction

2111
01:53:55,560 --> 01:53:57,599
Speaker 5: of the UN that's like no, this one fucking rips

2112
01:53:58,040 --> 01:53:58,799
Speaker 5: and yeah.

2113
01:53:58,680 --> 01:54:00,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, this is the end. But they the bad

2114
01:54:00,439 --> 01:54:01,320
Speaker 4: guys though, aren't they.

2115
01:54:01,680 --> 01:54:03,799
Speaker 17: I think it's good that they have like Muslim countries

2116
01:54:03,840 --> 01:54:07,320
Speaker 17: within their yeah, their group, And like I think it's

2117
01:54:07,320 --> 01:54:09,280
Speaker 17: probably good that the Irish of their in large numbers

2118
01:54:09,280 --> 01:54:12,120
Speaker 17: because as a country they have been better on on

2119
01:54:12,200 --> 01:54:14,200
Speaker 17: Palestine than almost anyone else in Europe.

2120
01:54:14,320 --> 01:54:15,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, it turns out being a quality.

2121
01:54:17,320 --> 01:54:20,800
Speaker 17: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, like yeah, that's on

2122
01:54:20,960 --> 01:54:22,360
Speaker 17: that's on us as the British.

2123
01:54:22,520 --> 01:54:24,479
Speaker 4: But it's better that they're there, I guess.

2124
01:54:24,560 --> 01:54:24,760
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2125
01:54:24,920 --> 01:54:26,840
Speaker 17: And like no one talked about them for the past

2126
01:54:26,840 --> 01:54:28,920
Speaker 17: ten fucking years, but like the most important time for

2127
01:54:28,920 --> 01:54:30,720
Speaker 17: them to be there is right now. Yeah, and like

2128
01:54:30,880 --> 01:54:33,120
Speaker 17: even if they're not fighting, I think they serve a

2129
01:54:33,240 --> 01:54:37,760
Speaker 17: useful role in like it's the only accountability mechanism.

2130
01:54:37,840 --> 01:54:40,920
Speaker 5: Yeah that Israel can't just destroy. There are definitely people

2131
01:54:40,920 --> 01:54:42,800
Speaker 5: who are alive right now who would not be if

2132
01:54:42,880 --> 01:54:44,040
Speaker 5: if Irish were not there.

2133
01:54:44,120 --> 01:54:46,160
Speaker 17: Yeah, and like I know, we have these number of

2134
01:54:46,200 --> 01:54:48,680
Speaker 17: virus diistions. Like I know, it sucks it's your family

2135
01:54:48,760 --> 01:54:51,880
Speaker 17: member who's stuck there, like and like it feels like

2136
01:54:51,920 --> 01:54:53,600
Speaker 17: they're not able to do anything and they're just stuck

2137
01:54:53,640 --> 01:54:55,800
Speaker 17: there as like collateral as a bargaining chip.

2138
01:54:55,800 --> 01:54:57,480
Speaker 4: I don't know, but like, yeah, I.

2139
01:54:57,440 --> 01:55:00,840
Speaker 17: Think overseas military deployments by European countries go. It's one

2140
01:55:00,840 --> 01:55:03,080
Speaker 17: of the more defensible ones. You know, it's one of

2141
01:55:03,120 --> 01:55:06,840
Speaker 17: the ones that has stopped civilian lives being harmed. H

2142
01:55:07,320 --> 01:55:10,720
Speaker 17: And yeah, I think like the idea that they should leave,

2143
01:55:10,760 --> 01:55:12,280
Speaker 17: which I've seen people trotting.

2144
01:55:11,920 --> 01:55:12,360
Speaker 10: Out like that.

2145
01:55:12,720 --> 01:55:16,080
Speaker 17: No, they shouldn't like when they leave. It's just like

2146
01:55:16,160 --> 01:55:19,480
Speaker 17: Gaza all over again. It's just Israel copet boling civilians

2147
01:55:19,680 --> 01:55:22,960
Speaker 17: and talking of copy boying civilians. I guess made you

2148
01:55:22,960 --> 01:55:25,440
Speaker 17: want to talk about like Israel has decided to invade

2149
01:55:25,440 --> 01:55:26,160
Speaker 17: another country.

2150
01:55:26,600 --> 01:55:27,200
Speaker 4: So okay.

2151
01:55:27,240 --> 01:55:28,960
Speaker 5: So one of the things that's happened, and this has

2152
01:55:29,000 --> 01:55:32,920
Speaker 5: gotten almost no attention, I think because because the Syrian

2153
01:55:32,960 --> 01:55:35,040
Speaker 5: government does not want to admit that this is happening,

2154
01:55:35,040 --> 01:55:36,600
Speaker 5: and they're not doing anything about it because they don't

2155
01:55:36,600 --> 01:55:37,000
Speaker 5: give a shit.

2156
01:55:37,200 --> 01:55:37,440
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2157
01:55:37,520 --> 01:55:41,320
Speaker 5: So Israel has been occupying the Syrian goal On Heights

2158
01:55:41,360 --> 01:55:45,320
Speaker 5: since nineteen sixty seven. Yeah, they've militarized it. They've just

2159
01:55:45,320 --> 01:55:48,280
Speaker 5: been holding the territory for I shouldn't have tried to

2160
01:55:48,320 --> 01:55:48,880
Speaker 5: do math and a.

2161
01:55:48,840 --> 01:55:53,600
Speaker 4: Fly like over half a century, sixty years. Yeah.

2162
01:55:54,120 --> 01:55:56,000
Speaker 5: And one of the things that's been happening recently is

2163
01:55:56,080 --> 01:55:58,400
Speaker 5: there had been there had been like oh I say,

2164
01:55:58,400 --> 01:56:02,440
Speaker 5: describe as like a Russian nituring force sort of on

2165
01:56:02,440 --> 01:56:04,400
Speaker 5: on the border of the sheer knock about goal On

2166
01:56:04,440 --> 01:56:07,720
Speaker 5: Heights and the sort of like southern provinces is Asyria. Yeah,

2167
01:56:07,760 --> 01:56:11,760
Speaker 5: and the Israelis seem to have just apparently they've done

2168
01:56:11,800 --> 01:56:13,440
Speaker 5: they've done this before where they'll just like go in

2169
01:56:13,480 --> 01:56:14,879
Speaker 5: and buldoze a bunch of farmland.

2170
01:56:15,040 --> 01:56:17,200
Speaker 4: Yeah. I think this is on the video species of.

2171
01:56:17,200 --> 01:56:20,840
Speaker 5: D mining, right, Yeah, sort of. Yeah, I mean it's

2172
01:56:20,880 --> 01:56:23,360
Speaker 5: it's always been. It's always been pretty clearly like a

2173
01:56:23,440 --> 01:56:25,080
Speaker 5: land grab kind of thing.

2174
01:56:25,240 --> 01:56:25,480
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2175
01:56:25,480 --> 01:56:28,200
Speaker 5: But normally what happens is they go in, they buildoze

2176
01:56:28,200 --> 01:56:29,480
Speaker 5: a bunch of places, and they pull out.

2177
01:56:29,560 --> 01:56:30,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2178
01:56:30,200 --> 01:56:33,120
Speaker 5: So somehow they have surpassed Turkey as the number one

2179
01:56:33,160 --> 01:56:37,480
Speaker 5: bulldozer of olive fields, which is sort of staggering, like

2180
01:56:37,560 --> 01:56:40,040
Speaker 5: they they love that ship. Yeah, but this time they've

2181
01:56:40,120 --> 01:56:44,000
Speaker 5: set up seems like a road project. Although given everything

2182
01:56:44,040 --> 01:56:48,280
Speaker 5: that we've been seeing about the sort of like rise

2183
01:56:48,600 --> 01:56:51,120
Speaker 5: of the concept of greater Israel where they just start

2184
01:56:51,160 --> 01:56:56,000
Speaker 5: invading everyone and radially outwards from Israel extremely longing, they've

2185
01:56:56,000 --> 01:56:58,320
Speaker 5: they've buildozed these places. But now and they're but they've

2186
01:56:58,320 --> 01:57:01,000
Speaker 5: set it up like barred wire like down the new territory,

2187
01:57:01,040 --> 01:57:03,360
Speaker 5: which seems like they're just actually a time we can

2188
01:57:03,440 --> 01:57:09,480
Speaker 5: do annexation. Yeah, and that's really alarming because I mean,

2189
01:57:09,600 --> 01:57:13,160
Speaker 5: like the Syrian government isn't going to do shit about this, right,

2190
01:57:13,520 --> 01:57:17,920
Speaker 5: like you know, Israel has bombed Syria a few times already.

2191
01:57:18,320 --> 01:57:21,040
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, they pumped Syria last time. I was saying, the.

2192
01:57:20,800 --> 01:57:23,000
Speaker 5: Syrian gum doesn't give a shit, right, They're they're too busy,

2193
01:57:23,320 --> 01:57:26,360
Speaker 5: like like they have courage to kill, Like they don't

2194
01:57:26,400 --> 01:57:28,280
Speaker 5: have time to be dealing with fucking Israel here.

2195
01:57:28,760 --> 01:57:28,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2196
01:57:29,040 --> 01:57:32,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, but there's been an explicit is really pushed like

2197
01:57:32,320 --> 01:57:34,760
Speaker 5: even further out from the goal on heights, and I

2198
01:57:34,760 --> 01:57:37,560
Speaker 5: think we're just going to see this intensify as as

2199
01:57:37,640 --> 01:57:42,200
Speaker 5: the most sort of like drained settler factions in Israeli

2200
01:57:42,240 --> 01:57:44,880
Speaker 5: politics gain more and more power and the sort of

2201
01:57:44,960 --> 01:57:48,839
Speaker 5: like frankly like very American, we must push our borders,

2202
01:57:48,840 --> 01:57:50,960
Speaker 5: we must like push into new frontiers and sees more

2203
01:57:51,040 --> 01:57:53,960
Speaker 5: land like cycle sort of perpetuates itself.

2204
01:57:54,080 --> 01:57:55,879
Speaker 17: Yeah, and a lot of the people doing the settling

2205
01:57:55,920 --> 01:57:58,680
Speaker 17: have literally come from America to do the settling. Yeah,

2206
01:57:59,000 --> 01:58:02,680
Speaker 17: pushing out in the Golan it's bad, Like yeah, I

2207
01:58:02,720 --> 01:58:05,400
Speaker 17: know it's Reel claims it was attacked by Katiba's Bulla

2208
01:58:05,720 --> 01:58:08,120
Speaker 17: in the Golan Heights at last week, and katipaz Bula

2209
01:58:08,160 --> 01:58:10,920
Speaker 17: has denied that they glean it. Israel fabricated it. Nie

2210
01:58:10,960 --> 01:58:12,800
Speaker 17: of those people are people I particularly trust.

2211
01:58:13,120 --> 01:58:13,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2212
01:58:13,480 --> 01:58:14,840
Speaker 5: Well, and this is also one of these funny ones

2213
01:58:14,840 --> 01:58:19,320
Speaker 5: where it's like the Israelis are denying that they've done this,

2214
01:58:19,520 --> 01:58:23,080
Speaker 5: I think, and the Syrian government is also denying that

2215
01:58:23,120 --> 01:58:25,760
Speaker 5: they've done this, but like everyone who's there is like, well,

2216
01:58:26,080 --> 01:58:30,640
Speaker 5: obviously they did this, Like yeah, and like, I don't

2217
01:58:30,640 --> 01:58:32,160
Speaker 5: know why it's real keeps for wanting to open up

2218
01:58:32,200 --> 01:58:34,360
Speaker 5: your fronts. I mean they yeah, like you said, it's

2219
01:58:34,360 --> 01:58:37,960
Speaker 5: set like Colone list logic, I guess. But I do

2220
01:58:38,080 --> 01:58:41,919
Speaker 5: think that like the continuation of this like full scale

2221
01:58:42,040 --> 01:58:44,800
Speaker 5: war generates consent for the government as it exists in

2222
01:58:44,840 --> 01:58:47,280
Speaker 5: the moment that it stops, and that the government's legis

2223
01:58:47,360 --> 01:58:51,040
Speaker 5: will collapse there. Yeah, but yeah, pushing into Syria opens

2224
01:58:51,120 --> 01:58:57,520
Speaker 5: up a whole other world of shit, shit, yeah, the

2225
01:58:57,600 --> 01:59:02,040
Speaker 5: worst stuff. Yeah, there's a nation on earth who really

2226
01:59:02,080 --> 01:59:03,920
Speaker 5: doesn't need anyone else trying to fucking And it's not

2227
01:59:03,920 --> 01:59:05,720
Speaker 5: that Israel has not been killing Syrians for a long

2228
01:59:05,800 --> 01:59:08,840
Speaker 5: time as well, has been lobbing munitions into Syria for

2229
01:59:08,880 --> 01:59:10,800
Speaker 5: a long time, and it's increased.

2230
01:59:10,320 --> 01:59:11,080
Speaker 4: In the last year.

2231
01:59:11,280 --> 01:59:13,520
Speaker 17: Yeah, Like, yeah, you know, I was in Syria on

2232
01:59:13,600 --> 01:59:18,120
Speaker 17: October seventh last year and pretty much. Sooner as it's

2233
01:59:18,360 --> 01:59:21,120
Speaker 17: began responding to that attack, it began responding in Syria

2234
01:59:21,160 --> 01:59:23,600
Speaker 17: as well, but a ground operation is a whole different thing.

2235
01:59:24,040 --> 01:59:27,600
Speaker 17: There ain't no UN peacekeepers in Syria, and yeah, that

2236
01:59:27,840 --> 01:59:28,680
Speaker 17: could be very bad.

2237
01:59:28,760 --> 01:59:31,920
Speaker 5: So yeah, so we'll keep you updated on that story

2238
01:59:32,000 --> 01:59:36,720
Speaker 5: as it presumably continues to get worse, because yeah, everything

2239
01:59:36,760 --> 01:59:39,600
Speaker 5: seems to and like, I mean, I will say, Okay,

2240
01:59:39,680 --> 01:59:44,040
Speaker 5: so today Biden made a thing that said, if Israel

2241
01:59:44,480 --> 01:59:47,240
Speaker 5: hasn't resolved to the meditarian situation in thirty days, he's

2242
01:59:47,280 --> 01:59:48,480
Speaker 5: getting cut off aid.

2243
01:59:49,080 --> 01:59:51,480
Speaker 4: But like that's not going to happen.

2244
01:59:51,960 --> 01:59:57,160
Speaker 5: Like it's simply not like everyone says that all the time.

2245
01:59:57,400 --> 01:59:59,880
Speaker 4: I mean, how many lines have they stepped over?

2246
02:00:00,120 --> 02:00:00,240
Speaker 17: Right?

2247
02:00:00,320 --> 02:00:04,280
Speaker 5: Like how many An American red line is a line

2248
02:00:04,320 --> 02:00:05,920
Speaker 5: that when you step over and nothing happens.

2249
02:00:06,360 --> 02:00:08,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's that's just that's just how it works, right,

2250
02:00:08,880 --> 02:00:11,600
Speaker 4: like it works in Syria. It has been multiple times.

2251
02:00:11,680 --> 02:00:13,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean there's there's there's this old Russian joke

2252
02:00:14,000 --> 02:00:18,080
Speaker 5: about China's Final Warning where because like if throughout the

2253
02:00:18,200 --> 02:00:20,520
Speaker 5: entire seventies, when like there's all this boarders's going on,

2254
02:00:20,560 --> 02:00:23,360
Speaker 5: and even like the sixties and in the fifties sixties,

2255
02:00:23,560 --> 02:00:25,920
Speaker 5: like Chinese officials feel like this is China's final warning,

2256
02:00:26,000 --> 02:00:28,280
Speaker 5: Russia must stop and nothing would happen like this. This

2257
02:00:28,360 --> 02:00:31,400
Speaker 5: is where we're at with like the Democrats and being like, ah,

2258
02:00:31,520 --> 02:00:34,120
Speaker 5: Israel must stop doing whatever the fuck's no, they're not

2259
02:00:34,160 --> 02:00:35,880
Speaker 5: going to do anything, like they don't give a ship.

2260
02:00:35,960 --> 02:00:39,480
Speaker 17: Yeah, no, we've cried wolf so many times. It's clearly

2261
02:00:39,520 --> 02:00:42,360
Speaker 17: not an issue that Harris feels like it's going to

2262
02:00:42,360 --> 02:00:45,920
Speaker 17: lose her the election. Yeah, and then whoever wins, we

2263
02:00:46,040 --> 02:00:49,200
Speaker 17: got four more years of turning a fire hose of

2264
02:00:49,240 --> 02:00:52,360
Speaker 17: money and weapons on children in Palestine and apparently Syria

2265
02:00:52,400 --> 02:00:55,800
Speaker 17: and Lebanon as well. So yeah, it's great, It's all great.

2266
02:00:58,440 --> 02:01:00,800
Speaker 17: I'm afraid. Yeah, this this has not been a good

2267
02:01:00,800 --> 02:01:03,160
Speaker 17: news episode. I hope people who have family I have

2268
02:01:03,200 --> 02:01:05,320
Speaker 17: friends who are in Lebanon, like, I hope people who

2269
02:01:05,360 --> 02:01:06,160
Speaker 17: have family there were doing.

2270
02:01:06,200 --> 02:01:28,600
Speaker 4: Okay, I know it sucks, Hello.

2271
02:01:28,400 --> 02:01:31,720
Speaker 13: And welcome to It could happen here. I'm here with Mia.

2272
02:01:32,120 --> 02:01:32,680
Speaker 13: How you doing.

2273
02:01:33,800 --> 02:01:37,360
Speaker 5: It's abominably early, which not even podcasts early. It's like

2274
02:01:37,440 --> 02:01:41,280
Speaker 5: eight am here, so it's gonna be where we're We've

2275
02:01:41,280 --> 02:01:42,160
Speaker 5: done the caffeine.

2276
02:01:42,920 --> 02:01:45,400
Speaker 3: We're holding on for dear life sake.

2277
02:01:47,360 --> 02:01:48,800
Speaker 6: I feel you. I feel you.

2278
02:01:49,480 --> 02:01:52,680
Speaker 13: I have to ask, have you noticed that the continents

2279
02:01:52,760 --> 02:01:54,160
Speaker 13: are dripping a little bit?

2280
02:01:54,640 --> 02:01:56,000
Speaker 4: Continents are dripping?

2281
02:01:56,360 --> 02:01:58,680
Speaker 6: Yeah? Yeah, And I don't mean like blin out.

2282
02:01:58,800 --> 02:02:00,320
Speaker 13: I mean like if you take a look kind of

2283
02:02:00,400 --> 02:02:03,240
Speaker 13: map and you assume that North is up and South

2284
02:02:03,360 --> 02:02:05,480
Speaker 13: is down, it find it kind of looks like our

2285
02:02:05,640 --> 02:02:08,560
Speaker 13: major landmass is melting a little bit.

2286
02:02:08,840 --> 02:02:12,080
Speaker 5: Oh you know, Okay, now that you say it, I

2287
02:02:12,120 --> 02:02:13,080
Speaker 5: can kind of see it.

2288
02:02:13,520 --> 02:02:14,640
Speaker 6: H Yeah.

2289
02:02:15,000 --> 02:02:17,760
Speaker 13: This is a concept known as continental trip. And I'm

2290
02:02:17,800 --> 02:02:22,200
Speaker 13: not tripping on anything. I'm not the first person to notice.

2291
02:02:22,520 --> 02:02:23,200
Speaker 4: Incredible.

2292
02:02:23,720 --> 02:02:24,400
Speaker 6: You can look it up.

2293
02:02:24,440 --> 02:02:26,680
Speaker 13: There's a whole Wikipedia page of what's seen in everything,

2294
02:02:27,000 --> 02:02:30,280
Speaker 13: and well, South America is alongside India. They're kind of

2295
02:02:30,280 --> 02:02:34,520
Speaker 13: seen as the quintessential examples with this continental trip. And

2296
02:02:34,560 --> 02:02:37,640
Speaker 13: this is a very odd way that I've decided to

2297
02:02:37,720 --> 02:02:42,320
Speaker 13: segue into the next nation in our exploration of Latin

2298
02:02:42,360 --> 02:02:45,840
Speaker 13: America and anarchist history. It's right to the east of

2299
02:02:45,920 --> 02:02:49,520
Speaker 13: Chile and south of every other country near Temisphale.

2300
02:02:50,400 --> 02:02:53,160
Speaker 6: That is, of course, the Argentine.

2301
02:02:52,640 --> 02:02:57,240
Speaker 13: Republic, more commonly known as Argentina, which is derived by

2302
02:02:57,280 --> 02:03:00,960
Speaker 13: the way from the Latin word for silver. My name

2303
02:03:01,000 --> 02:03:03,320
Speaker 13: is Andrew Sage. You can find me on YouTube as

2304
02:03:03,440 --> 02:03:07,160
Speaker 13: Andrewism And thanks to the scholarship of Chuck Moss, Jeffrey

2305
02:03:07,240 --> 02:03:10,920
Speaker 13: la Focad, and Ahille Capileetti, we're going to take a

2306
02:03:10,960 --> 02:03:14,720
Speaker 13: journey into the history of anarchism in Argentina.

2307
02:03:15,240 --> 02:03:18,680
Speaker 5: Also got to do the shout out for Calculates Anarchism

2308
02:03:18,720 --> 02:03:22,240
Speaker 5: in Latin Erica. Great book, also great cover, got a

2309
02:03:22,240 --> 02:03:23,080
Speaker 5: big bird on it.

2310
02:03:23,320 --> 02:03:23,920
Speaker 4: Good stuff.

2311
02:03:24,120 --> 02:03:26,720
Speaker 13: Oh yeah, shout out of course, of course. So I

2312
02:03:26,720 --> 02:03:28,800
Speaker 13: suppose the best place to start us in the beginning.

2313
02:03:29,720 --> 02:03:31,800
Speaker 13: So there's this thing called the Big Bang, right.

2314
02:03:34,400 --> 02:03:43,720
Speaker 5: Universe expanded extremely fast like Pico second.

2315
02:03:42,080 --> 02:03:43,360
Speaker 6: Large expansion of matter.

2316
02:03:43,480 --> 02:03:49,760
Speaker 13: And yeah, but seriously, Argentina has been peopled since the

2317
02:03:49,880 --> 02:03:54,920
Speaker 13: Paleolithic period. In particular, we find evidence of ancient people's

2318
02:03:55,120 --> 02:03:58,760
Speaker 13: butchering the meat of an armadillo relative as early as

2319
02:03:58,800 --> 02:04:02,240
Speaker 13: twenty one third years ago geese.

2320
02:04:02,480 --> 02:04:04,320
Speaker 6: So you know, we've been around.

2321
02:04:04,360 --> 02:04:06,640
Speaker 13: We've been around from then on as far as we

2322
02:04:06,720 --> 02:04:08,960
Speaker 13: can tell for now, at least, because you know, the

2323
02:04:09,000 --> 02:04:13,400
Speaker 13: timelines are constantly getting updated with new information, as it

2324
02:04:13,440 --> 02:04:17,120
Speaker 13: should be. The area to be known as Argentina was

2325
02:04:17,560 --> 02:04:21,400
Speaker 13: pretty sparsely populated by a variety of divus cultures with

2326
02:04:21,520 --> 02:04:27,200
Speaker 13: diverse social organizations including forgers and farmers. To take a

2327
02:04:27,200 --> 02:04:31,840
Speaker 13: long and largely unknown history of indigenous co existence and conflicts. Short,

2328
02:04:32,360 --> 02:04:35,160
Speaker 13: people continue to live and the earth continue to spin

2329
02:04:35,560 --> 02:04:38,120
Speaker 13: for the next few millennia until a few ships on

2330
02:04:38,160 --> 02:04:41,880
Speaker 13: the horizon spell doom for all to see. These are,

2331
02:04:41,920 --> 02:04:45,120
Speaker 13: of course, the Europeans who first arrived in the region

2332
02:04:45,320 --> 02:04:49,040
Speaker 13: with the fifteen oh two voyage of Amerigo Vespucci, with

2333
02:04:49,120 --> 02:04:52,640
Speaker 13: the Spanish navigators Juan Dias de Solis and Sebastian Cabo

2334
02:04:52,720 --> 02:04:56,160
Speaker 13: in particular visiting the territory in fifteen sixteen and fifteen

2335
02:04:56,160 --> 02:05:01,120
Speaker 13: twenty six, respectively. Then in fifteen thirty six Pedro de

2336
02:05:01,240 --> 02:05:03,720
Speaker 13: Mendoza founded this small settlement.

2337
02:05:03,280 --> 02:05:04,680
Speaker 6: Of Buenos Aires.

2338
02:05:05,040 --> 02:05:08,000
Speaker 13: Maybe you've heard of it, but it was a band

2339
02:05:08,000 --> 02:05:11,400
Speaker 13: that in fifteen forty one thanks to continuous indigenous resistance,

2340
02:05:11,880 --> 02:05:15,800
Speaker 13: and had to be refounded in fifteen eighty. As for

2341
02:05:15,840 --> 02:05:19,160
Speaker 13: the rest of would be Argentina, the Spanish Empire that

2342
02:05:19,360 --> 02:05:22,320
Speaker 13: was running most of the continant was busy lutin the

2343
02:05:22,360 --> 02:05:26,160
Speaker 13: silver and gold mines in Bolivia and Peru, so Argentina

2344
02:05:26,280 --> 02:05:28,120
Speaker 13: was kind of seen as a backwater.

2345
02:05:28,240 --> 02:05:29,480
Speaker 6: It wasn't as much of an interest.

2346
02:05:29,480 --> 02:05:34,400
Speaker 13: By comparison, Argentina stayed under the Viceroyalty of Peru and

2347
02:05:34,520 --> 02:05:36,880
Speaker 13: to the creation of the Viceroyalty of the Rio de

2348
02:05:36,960 --> 02:05:40,560
Speaker 13: la Plata in seventeen seventy six, with Buenos Aires as

2349
02:05:40,600 --> 02:05:44,960
Speaker 13: its capital after two failed the British invasions in eighteen

2350
02:05:44,960 --> 02:05:47,520
Speaker 13: oh six and eighteen o seven, and as you could see,

2351
02:05:47,560 --> 02:05:49,360
Speaker 13: the British and Argentina have.

2352
02:05:49,360 --> 02:05:51,640
Speaker 6: Had a bit of a scuffle for some time now.

2353
02:05:52,640 --> 02:05:56,200
Speaker 13: The Buenos Aires capital would be the stage of revolution,

2354
02:05:57,080 --> 02:06:00,240
Speaker 13: as the eighteen ten May Revolution replaced the Vice roy

2355
02:06:00,280 --> 02:06:04,600
Speaker 13: Baltasar Hidel Gorya Cesnios with the First Junta, a new

2356
02:06:04,600 --> 02:06:08,520
Speaker 13: government made by and for the locals, and then there

2357
02:06:08,560 --> 02:06:12,240
Speaker 13: was a royalist counter revolution, some anti colonial alliance with

2358
02:06:12,280 --> 02:06:16,640
Speaker 13: the then Spanish Philippines, divisions between centralists and federalists over

2359
02:06:16,640 --> 02:06:20,640
Speaker 13: the newly forming Argentine state, proposals to crown a supper

2360
02:06:20,840 --> 02:06:25,000
Speaker 13: Inca as a monarch of an independent Argentina, and the

2361
02:06:25,000 --> 02:06:27,680
Speaker 13: official declaration of independence for a republic on the ninth

2362
02:06:27,720 --> 02:06:30,840
Speaker 13: of July eighteen sixteen. Just to go back a bit

2363
02:06:31,080 --> 02:06:34,800
Speaker 13: to be clear, there is an alternate history scenario in

2364
02:06:34,840 --> 02:06:41,200
Speaker 13: which Argentina was briefly or continuously under an InCor monarchy

2365
02:06:41,520 --> 02:06:45,960
Speaker 13: that would have ripped literally. I believe it was a

2366
02:06:45,960 --> 02:06:49,600
Speaker 13: cousin of Tupa Kamaru. The third incredible was being considered

2367
02:06:49,640 --> 02:06:53,840
Speaker 13: for the position incredible, incredible, incredible. Indeed, see, people tend

2368
02:06:53,920 --> 02:06:57,480
Speaker 13: to see South America as just like you know, it's

2369
02:06:57,520 --> 02:06:59,640
Speaker 13: just the extra continent. I mean, I don't think people

2370
02:06:59,680 --> 02:07:02,600
Speaker 13: think about how much has gone on down there, or

2371
02:07:02,640 --> 02:07:07,120
Speaker 13: rather it's not really present in the English speaking world's imagination.

2372
02:07:07,600 --> 02:07:07,760
Speaker 6: You know.

2373
02:07:07,800 --> 02:07:10,840
Speaker 13: We tend to focus on more of the Northern hemisphere

2374
02:07:10,880 --> 02:07:13,120
Speaker 13: side of things, which have a specific region we find

2375
02:07:13,120 --> 02:07:16,320
Speaker 13: ourselves in, whether it be the Caribbean or Australia and

2376
02:07:16,320 --> 02:07:20,520
Speaker 13: New Zealand, UK US Canada. We tend to think about

2377
02:07:20,520 --> 02:07:25,400
Speaker 13: English speaking colonial history. But Latin America had a lot

2378
02:07:25,840 --> 02:07:28,800
Speaker 13: going on in its time. I mean, come on, they

2379
02:07:28,800 --> 02:07:34,160
Speaker 13: had an alliance with the Spanish Philippines. Yeah yeah, so,

2380
02:07:34,280 --> 02:07:38,400
Speaker 13: I mean civil war go per, as they say, between

2381
02:07:38,440 --> 02:07:41,640
Speaker 13: the centralists and the Federalists, and that will continue for

2382
02:07:41,680 --> 02:07:45,800
Speaker 13: a while after the Declaration of the Republic in eighteen sixteen,

2383
02:07:46,280 --> 02:07:49,080
Speaker 13: and it was only resolved in eighteen thirty one with

2384
02:07:49,160 --> 02:07:52,360
Speaker 13: a Federalist victory. Basically, it was a division over how

2385
02:07:52,400 --> 02:07:54,240
Speaker 13: they should organize the state, whether it should be in

2386
02:07:54,280 --> 02:07:58,080
Speaker 13: a federal manner or more centralist unitary manner, so the Federalists,

2387
02:07:58,120 --> 02:08:01,640
Speaker 13: one which would lead to the war the Confederation between

2388
02:08:01,640 --> 02:08:04,360
Speaker 13: eighteen thirty sixty eighteen thirty nine, the establishment of the

2389
02:08:04,400 --> 02:08:07,640
Speaker 13: Constitution in eighteen fifty three, and a temporary secession of

2390
02:08:07,680 --> 02:08:11,600
Speaker 13: Buenos Aires which was forced back into Argentina by eighteen

2391
02:08:11,640 --> 02:08:14,720
Speaker 13: sixty one. And as in much of that in America,

2392
02:08:14,880 --> 02:08:17,720
Speaker 13: anarchism would establish itself fairly early on thanks to the

2393
02:08:17,720 --> 02:08:21,480
Speaker 13: waves of migration from Europe, and particularly from France, Italy

2394
02:08:21,560 --> 02:08:22,000
Speaker 13: and Spain.

2395
02:08:22,480 --> 02:08:26,320
Speaker 4: There are so many Italians, so many, just.

2396
02:08:26,520 --> 02:08:31,320
Speaker 13: An absurd amount of Italians. These folks fled political repression

2397
02:08:31,520 --> 02:08:36,800
Speaker 13: and poverty in their home countries. Refugees from the Paris Commune,

2398
02:08:36,800 --> 02:08:40,240
Speaker 13: and anarchist literature from the aforementioned lands would find themselves

2399
02:08:40,240 --> 02:08:44,160
Speaker 13: in the streets of Buenos Aires City and the countrysides

2400
02:08:44,200 --> 02:08:45,400
Speaker 13: of Buenos Aires Province.

2401
02:08:46,040 --> 02:08:48,200
Speaker 6: They circulated anarchist ideas.

2402
02:08:47,800 --> 02:08:51,080
Speaker 13: Through group meetings such as the group Elmeserabeli in the

2403
02:08:51,080 --> 02:08:55,120
Speaker 13: port city of Rosario, and publications like the Rivolte, which

2404
02:08:55,160 --> 02:08:57,920
Speaker 13: was founded by Kropotkin all the way back in Switzerland.

2405
02:08:58,400 --> 02:09:02,400
Speaker 13: Kropotkin's Words of a Rebel would also make frequent appearances

2406
02:09:02,480 --> 02:09:06,960
Speaker 13: throughout Argentina, and his Conquest of Bread received a translation

2407
02:09:07,120 --> 02:09:11,160
Speaker 13: by Catalan carpenter Juan Villa. As with the splits internationally,

2408
02:09:11,680 --> 02:09:14,600
Speaker 13: the First International's local section in Buenos Airis, which was

2409
02:09:14,600 --> 02:09:17,560
Speaker 13: founded in eighteen seventy two, would split between the supporters

2410
02:09:17,600 --> 02:09:20,880
Speaker 13: of Marx and the supporters of a Cunan. The former

2411
02:09:20,960 --> 02:09:26,240
Speaker 13: were predominantly French, the latter predominantly Spaniard an Italian. Three

2412
02:09:26,360 --> 02:09:30,160
Speaker 13: decades of substantial migration started in the eighteen eighties, which

2413
02:09:30,160 --> 02:09:33,919
Speaker 13: sparked significant growth in the anarchist movement as the migrants

2414
02:09:33,920 --> 02:09:38,840
Speaker 13: found Crussian economic deprivation and repressive governance where they'd hoped

2415
02:09:38,920 --> 02:09:45,240
Speaker 13: they'd find prosperity and liberty. Over three million people arrived,

2416
02:09:45,520 --> 02:09:48,880
Speaker 13: leading to the country having a foreign born population of

2417
02:09:49,000 --> 02:09:54,800
Speaker 13: thirty three percent by nineteen fourteen. Nowadays, as in much

2418
02:09:54,800 --> 02:09:59,360
Speaker 13: of the world, unfortunately that once foreign born population some

2419
02:09:59,480 --> 02:10:03,800
Speaker 13: percentage of them, and now unfortunately anti I migration, yeah,

2420
02:10:03,880 --> 02:10:06,760
Speaker 13: and violently. So it's a cruel irony that we find

2421
02:10:06,760 --> 02:10:11,040
Speaker 13: ourselves with just mere decades ago. Their own ancestors were migrants.

2422
02:10:19,600 --> 02:10:22,200
Speaker 13: Among the migration wave came the likes of Hector Matte,

2423
02:10:22,480 --> 02:10:25,720
Speaker 13: an Italian anarchist who helped publish a Socialista, which is

2424
02:10:25,720 --> 02:10:28,880
Speaker 13: a weekly people and of course believe it's or not,

2425
02:10:29,760 --> 02:10:32,640
Speaker 13: the one and only Era Kamana Testa, who keeps making

2426
02:10:32,720 --> 02:10:37,440
Speaker 13: guest appearances in these last American anarchism. He's just like

2427
02:10:37,720 --> 02:10:41,520
Speaker 13: all over the places, traveling everywhere. If I recall correctly,

2428
02:10:41,520 --> 02:10:45,560
Speaker 13: he made an appearance in Cuba. He made an appearance

2429
02:10:45,880 --> 02:10:49,280
Speaker 13: in the Egypt episode as well. Yep, she just keeps

2430
02:10:49,280 --> 02:10:49,800
Speaker 13: showing up.

2431
02:10:50,000 --> 02:10:53,280
Speaker 5: He's really truly a globe trotter in a mold that

2432
02:10:53,320 --> 02:10:54,360
Speaker 5: we haven't really seen.

2433
02:10:54,640 --> 02:10:57,000
Speaker 13: Hey, I mean move aside football, you know he's the

2434
02:10:57,040 --> 02:11:01,760
Speaker 13: real mister worldwide. So at Akman test He actually fled

2435
02:11:01,800 --> 02:11:05,840
Speaker 13: Italy in eighty eighty five after escaping imprisonment, and he

2436
02:11:05,840 --> 02:11:09,400
Speaker 13: helped establish the Cecuilo the Studio Socialists, where he and

2437
02:11:09,600 --> 02:11:13,760
Speaker 13: others gave public speeches promoting anarchism, and he worked to

2438
02:11:13,840 --> 02:11:18,000
Speaker 13: organize a society dad Cosmopolita de Obreros Pandero's an anarchist

2439
02:11:18,160 --> 02:11:21,800
Speaker 13: Baker's Union. I didn't know he could bake, maybe he

2440
02:11:21,800 --> 02:11:23,960
Speaker 13: could make, maybe he couldn't. Maybe he was just there,

2441
02:11:24,040 --> 02:11:26,360
Speaker 13: you know, helping them set up. But in my head,

2442
02:11:26,400 --> 02:11:29,800
Speaker 13: I'd like to imagine that he was pretty good at bacon,

2443
02:11:29,880 --> 02:11:31,160
Speaker 13: bread and making cookies.

2444
02:11:31,840 --> 02:11:33,880
Speaker 5: You know, I'm pretty sure it was like an ice

2445
02:11:33,920 --> 02:11:35,800
Speaker 5: cream salesman too at one point, So I might be

2446
02:11:35,840 --> 02:11:39,000
Speaker 5: getting that confused with like some other anarchists who was

2447
02:11:39,040 --> 02:11:41,000
Speaker 5: going around everywhere who was also selling ice cream.

2448
02:11:41,080 --> 02:11:42,560
Speaker 6: You know, I wouldn't be surprised.

2449
02:11:42,680 --> 02:11:44,920
Speaker 5: I have vague memories of there being a story about

2450
02:11:45,000 --> 02:11:47,160
Speaker 5: like him having an ice cream cart and trying to

2451
02:11:47,200 --> 02:11:48,800
Speaker 5: make money and he couldn't do it because he kept

2452
02:11:48,800 --> 02:11:49,920
Speaker 5: giving ice cream the children.

2453
02:11:50,920 --> 02:11:52,760
Speaker 6: I think I remember that story. I think it's so

2454
02:11:52,920 --> 02:11:54,040
Speaker 6: bag I had a video on it.

2455
02:11:54,880 --> 02:11:57,080
Speaker 13: You know that those ads used to show on TV

2456
02:11:57,200 --> 02:12:00,120
Speaker 13: A couple like about a decade ago, most interesting than

2457
02:12:00,200 --> 02:12:00,840
Speaker 13: man in the world.

2458
02:12:01,040 --> 02:12:07,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, he was based on Aurkromat. Yeah.

2459
02:12:07,440 --> 02:12:07,560
Speaker 17: So.

2460
02:12:07,640 --> 02:12:10,280
Speaker 13: Maltessa later returned to Europe in eighteen eighty nine, Yet

2461
02:12:10,320 --> 02:12:13,520
Speaker 13: he left a lasting legacy in helping to organize workers

2462
02:12:13,560 --> 02:12:16,400
Speaker 13: and sow the seeds for a powerful anarchist movement in

2463
02:12:16,520 --> 02:12:20,480
Speaker 13: Argentina in the early eighteen nineties, the anarchist paper El

2464
02:12:20,560 --> 02:12:24,360
Speaker 13: Perscuido became one of the most popular and prominent voices

2465
02:12:24,400 --> 02:12:29,560
Speaker 13: of anarchist communism in Argentina. Despite ongoing repression and government censorship,

2466
02:12:29,840 --> 02:12:32,880
Speaker 13: the anarchist press continued to expand during this period, with

2467
02:12:32,960 --> 02:12:35,960
Speaker 13: publications like La Vois de la Mochere and Anarchist Feminist

2468
02:12:36,000 --> 02:12:39,800
Speaker 13: People emerging in Rosario. The eighteen eighties and early eighteen

2469
02:12:39,840 --> 02:12:43,800
Speaker 13: nineties also involved significant internal debates, particularly around the role

2470
02:12:43,840 --> 02:12:48,560
Speaker 13: of workers unions and revolutionary tactics. Some groups embraced anarchist cynicalism,

2471
02:12:49,000 --> 02:12:52,520
Speaker 13: while others believed smaller affinity groups as catalysts of social

2472
02:12:52,600 --> 02:12:55,840
Speaker 13: revolution with a way to go. While in the midst

2473
02:12:55,840 --> 02:12:59,000
Speaker 13: of a massive rapid industrial growth and deal with the

2474
02:12:59,040 --> 02:13:02,160
Speaker 13: worst than economics that for the working class, such a

2475
02:13:02,240 --> 02:13:07,000
Speaker 13: society was ripe for transformation of the anarchist variety. Initially,

2476
02:13:07,000 --> 02:13:10,440
Speaker 13: the anarchists have been focused on countercultural concerns, particularly in

2477
02:13:10,440 --> 02:13:13,880
Speaker 13: the field of education. Where As their ranks swelled in number,

2478
02:13:14,360 --> 02:13:16,440
Speaker 13: the stage was set for the debut of a mass

2479
02:13:16,520 --> 02:13:21,440
Speaker 13: anarchist movement among Argentine workers. In eighteen ninety seven, the

2480
02:13:21,480 --> 02:13:25,400
Speaker 13: anarchist workers were found lab protester Humana, later shortened to

2481
02:13:25,480 --> 02:13:29,520
Speaker 13: Lap Protester, which would become an enduring anarchist paper throughout

2482
02:13:29,840 --> 02:13:33,560
Speaker 13: Latin America. But the anarchists didn't just stick to papers though.

2483
02:13:34,280 --> 02:13:36,879
Speaker 13: In nineteen oh one, anarchists were instrumental in the founding

2484
02:13:36,880 --> 02:13:40,680
Speaker 13: of the Argentine Workers Federation of the FOA, which is

2485
02:13:40,760 --> 02:13:45,200
Speaker 13: Argentina's first labor federation. Federation was founded in a congress

2486
02:13:45,200 --> 02:13:48,800
Speaker 13: that assembled some fifty delegates representing thirty to thirty five

2487
02:13:48,840 --> 02:13:53,120
Speaker 13: workers organizations from both capital and interior. The aim of

2488
02:13:53,120 --> 02:13:56,600
Speaker 13: the federation was an entity that included all workers without

2489
02:13:56,640 --> 02:13:59,480
Speaker 13: regard to their races or beliefs, based on a solid

2490
02:13:59,480 --> 02:14:04,760
Speaker 13: foundation of direct action and economic struggle. Though initially including Marxists,

2491
02:14:05,240 --> 02:14:08,040
Speaker 13: those would later depart to found the General Workers Union

2492
02:14:08,120 --> 02:14:11,120
Speaker 13: or the UGT, which was more meanable to party interests,

2493
02:14:11,160 --> 02:14:15,240
Speaker 13: of course, which left the FAA in anarchist hands. The

2494
02:14:15,320 --> 02:14:18,600
Speaker 13: FAA stood at the forefront of the struggles, advocating for

2495
02:14:18,640 --> 02:14:22,560
Speaker 13: higher wages and better working conditions. At the time, the

2496
02:14:22,640 --> 02:14:26,440
Speaker 13: typical workday was ten hours or more, with wages barely

2497
02:14:26,440 --> 02:14:32,040
Speaker 13: covering essential needs. Strikes broke out across industries with notable successes.

2498
02:14:32,640 --> 02:14:35,760
Speaker 13: Painters and Marder Platter secured an eight hour workday and

2499
02:14:35,880 --> 02:14:38,440
Speaker 13: dark workers in minos aires one and nine hour workday,

2500
02:14:38,520 --> 02:14:42,400
Speaker 13: along with a wage increase. But despite the oppression, the

2501
02:14:42,440 --> 02:14:46,680
Speaker 13: workers movement continued to grow stronger. The FOA's membership surged,

2502
02:14:47,040 --> 02:14:49,760
Speaker 13: with forty two unions and over fifteen thousand members in

2503
02:14:49,840 --> 02:14:53,080
Speaker 13: nineteen o three, rise into sixty six unions and nearly

2504
02:14:53,120 --> 02:14:57,600
Speaker 13: thirty three thousand members a year later. In nineteen o four,

2505
02:14:57,640 --> 02:15:00,440
Speaker 13: at its fourth congress, the group was re named the

2506
02:15:00,480 --> 02:15:04,400
Speaker 13: Regional Workers Federation of Argentina or the FARE or FORA.

2507
02:15:05,440 --> 02:15:10,280
Speaker 13: The reasoning was ideological. By adding the adjective regional, it

2508
02:15:10,320 --> 02:15:13,400
Speaker 13: made plain that Argentina was not considered a state or

2509
02:15:13,440 --> 02:15:17,000
Speaker 13: political unit, but a region of the world which workers

2510
02:15:17,000 --> 02:15:20,920
Speaker 13: struggled for their liberation. This fourth congress also approved of

2511
02:15:20,960 --> 02:15:23,960
Speaker 13: solidarity pacts that proclaimed the establishment of a class less

2512
02:15:24,000 --> 02:15:28,040
Speaker 13: society with neither state nor private property as the ultimate

2513
02:15:28,080 --> 02:15:31,800
Speaker 13: aim of their struggle. The anarchist influence was clear, but

2514
02:15:31,880 --> 02:15:34,720
Speaker 13: it gets even more explicit in the following year. The

2515
02:15:34,880 --> 02:15:38,600
Speaker 13: UGIT had been subordinated to the Marxist Socialist Party, but

2516
02:15:38,680 --> 02:15:41,200
Speaker 13: even their third congress in nineteen oh five had a

2517
02:15:41,200 --> 02:15:46,760
Speaker 13: syndicalist emergence to preferred workers associations to political parties. Basically,

2518
02:15:46,800 --> 02:15:50,040
Speaker 13: even the non anarchist workers organizations would be an influenced

2519
02:15:50,040 --> 02:15:52,640
Speaker 13: by the anarchist wave, so much so that the UGIT

2520
02:15:52,760 --> 02:15:56,760
Speaker 13: wanted to form a solidarity pact with Fura. The anarchist

2521
02:15:56,800 --> 02:16:01,960
Speaker 13: and four didn't quite trust the parliamentary socialism of the UGT. Still,

2522
02:16:02,400 --> 02:16:04,280
Speaker 13: they did work with them to call a general strike

2523
02:16:04,320 --> 02:16:06,640
Speaker 13: in nineteen oh seven and saw a diarity with cart

2524
02:16:06,720 --> 02:16:09,880
Speaker 13: drivers in Rosario, joined by some one hundred and fifty

2525
02:16:09,880 --> 02:16:14,800
Speaker 13: eight thousand workers from around the republic. That strike ended

2526
02:16:14,800 --> 02:16:18,560
Speaker 13: in victory for the workers. In nineteen oh five, two

2527
02:16:18,640 --> 02:16:22,240
Speaker 13: years before and as fifth Congress, Foura made its commitments

2528
02:16:22,240 --> 02:16:27,640
Speaker 13: to revolutionary anarchist communism explicitly known quote the advice and

2529
02:16:27,680 --> 02:16:30,880
Speaker 13: recommend to all our followers the broadest possible study and

2530
02:16:30,920 --> 02:16:34,560
Speaker 13: propaganda with the aim of insterning workers economic and philosophical

2531
02:16:34,560 --> 02:16:39,560
Speaker 13: principles of anarchist communism. This education, not content with achieve

2532
02:16:39,600 --> 02:16:43,360
Speaker 13: in the eight hour workday, would bring total emancipation and

2533
02:16:43,480 --> 02:16:48,280
Speaker 13: consequently the social evolution we pursue end quote four. I

2534
02:16:48,440 --> 02:16:51,800
Speaker 13: was among the largest federations of workers organizations and it

2535
02:16:51,879 --> 02:16:55,680
Speaker 13: was officially anarchist communists. The nineteen oh sixth ninety o

2536
02:16:55,760 --> 02:16:58,720
Speaker 13: seven general and tenant strikes gone a greater favor, and

2537
02:16:58,800 --> 02:17:03,000
Speaker 13: in response, Whenasyrius police head Colonel Falcones sware to finish

2538
02:17:03,160 --> 02:17:06,200
Speaker 13: or off the anarchists nineteen oh seven saw for Her

2539
02:17:06,280 --> 02:17:09,640
Speaker 13: and Ugit attempt a merger, but since the majority sought

2540
02:17:09,680 --> 02:17:13,959
Speaker 13: adherence to anarchist communism, the merger could not be achieved.

2541
02:17:14,480 --> 02:17:17,920
Speaker 13: For Her was militant and effective in achieving many of

2542
02:17:17,920 --> 02:17:21,800
Speaker 13: its schools, including wage increases, reductions in the length of

2543
02:17:21,840 --> 02:17:26,160
Speaker 13: the work day, and various rights of association. Port workers,

2544
02:17:26,240 --> 02:17:31,320
Speaker 13: Crown transport workers, seamen's unions, bakers, metal workers, construction workers,

2545
02:17:31,320 --> 02:17:34,760
Speaker 13: and ship workers were all prominent in the federation and

2546
02:17:34,840 --> 02:17:39,160
Speaker 13: were well positioned to paralyze the Argentine economy and win

2547
02:17:39,240 --> 02:17:42,760
Speaker 13: their demands. In the first decade of the twentieth century,

2548
02:17:43,120 --> 02:17:47,279
Speaker 13: these unions led six general strikes and many more partial strikes,

2549
02:17:47,800 --> 02:17:50,080
Speaker 13: and women were more involved than in any other radical

2550
02:17:50,120 --> 02:17:53,640
Speaker 13: movement of the time, taking part in consumer boycotts and

2551
02:17:53,720 --> 02:17:56,480
Speaker 13: rent strikes as well. But the anarchists knew the ruptures

2552
02:17:56,520 --> 02:18:08,320
Speaker 13: in the capitalist economy wouldn't be enough. It could never

2553
02:18:08,360 --> 02:18:11,160
Speaker 13: be enough to merely confront the system and refuse to

2554
02:18:11,160 --> 02:18:16,920
Speaker 13: corporate the system as it is. The social revolutionals demands consciousness, solidarity,

2555
02:18:17,320 --> 02:18:23,000
Speaker 13: and the prefiguration of an enlightened progressive society in social organizations. Thus,

2556
02:18:23,080 --> 02:18:27,400
Speaker 13: anarchists engaged in counter culture, multiple papers in multiple languages,

2557
02:18:27,840 --> 02:18:33,760
Speaker 13: theater and poetry, may day marches, social centers, popular education centers,

2558
02:18:34,000 --> 02:18:38,160
Speaker 13: popular libraries, and discussion circles. All of these efforts were

2559
02:18:38,160 --> 02:18:41,360
Speaker 13: ceded throughout the cities and linked to various unions to

2560
02:18:41,440 --> 02:18:46,640
Speaker 13: create a veritable and dynamic network of revolutionary causes. And

2561
02:18:46,680 --> 02:18:49,680
Speaker 13: since the government understood the anarchist threat, they tried their

2562
02:18:49,720 --> 02:18:53,520
Speaker 13: best to raise the cost of revolutionary activism. The actions

2563
02:18:53,560 --> 02:18:57,920
Speaker 13: included petty police harassment, the humiliated and inconvenient searches and

2564
02:18:58,000 --> 02:19:01,640
Speaker 13: protuitors demands identification, which were a familiar experience for the

2565
02:19:01,640 --> 02:19:05,800
Speaker 13: anarchist militants. There was also without law and of radical publications,

2566
02:19:06,160 --> 02:19:09,879
Speaker 13: the suppression of the right to public assembly, mass arrests,

2567
02:19:10,280 --> 02:19:12,879
Speaker 13: martial law declared for a total of eighteen months between

2568
02:19:12,920 --> 02:19:15,560
Speaker 13: nineteen oh two and nineteen ten, and of course outright

2569
02:19:15,680 --> 02:19:19,720
Speaker 13: violence to the police, the army and other formal forces.

2570
02:19:19,920 --> 02:19:23,360
Speaker 13: In addition to thugs acting on their behalf. The governor

2571
02:19:23,360 --> 02:19:26,480
Speaker 13: also attempted to undermine the anarchist movement through legislative means.

2572
02:19:27,120 --> 02:19:30,160
Speaker 13: The Resident's Law in nineteen oh two granted the government

2573
02:19:30,160 --> 02:19:34,879
Speaker 13: the right to deport foreigners that are deemed undesirable without trial.

2574
02:19:36,000 --> 02:19:37,920
Speaker 13: After the law had been in effect for a few years,

2575
02:19:38,320 --> 02:19:40,320
Speaker 13: four are called a general strike.

2576
02:19:39,959 --> 02:19:41,600
Speaker 6: Against its oppressive conditions.

2577
02:19:42,280 --> 02:19:45,160
Speaker 13: For as leadership condemned the law as a violation of

2578
02:19:45,240 --> 02:19:47,920
Speaker 13: human rights labor it as a tool where the state

2579
02:19:48,160 --> 02:19:49,560
Speaker 13: to suppress free thoughts.

2580
02:19:49,280 --> 02:19:53,920
Speaker 6: And working class movements. The government did not budge.

2581
02:19:54,080 --> 02:19:57,360
Speaker 13: On May Day nineteen oh nine, police violently attacked a

2582
02:19:57,400 --> 02:20:01,960
Speaker 13: peaceful protest organized by transport workers inists, killing eight people

2583
02:20:02,320 --> 02:20:07,119
Speaker 13: and wounded many others. Colonel Falcone, the recurrent villain who

2584
02:20:07,280 --> 02:20:10,560
Speaker 13: ordered the attack, later became the target of a retaliatory

2585
02:20:10,600 --> 02:20:14,359
Speaker 13: bombing by young anarchist Simon Radowitski in November.

2586
02:20:14,000 --> 02:20:15,199
Speaker 6: Nineteen o nine.

2587
02:20:15,240 --> 02:20:19,039
Speaker 13: This act of defiance shook the whole country. In the meantime,

2588
02:20:19,040 --> 02:20:22,680
Speaker 13: the anarchist cause also resonated internationally. In response to the

2589
02:20:22,760 --> 02:20:27,240
Speaker 13: execution of Francisco Ferrer, a Spanish educator and anarchist fora

2590
02:20:27,320 --> 02:20:31,840
Speaker 13: led a series of strikes in Argentina, joining global protests

2591
02:20:31,920 --> 02:20:32,760
Speaker 13: against his death.

2592
02:20:33,480 --> 02:20:35,279
Speaker 6: Nineteen ten marked.

2593
02:20:35,120 --> 02:20:39,840
Speaker 13: Argentina's preparations for the centenary celebrations of its first national government,

2594
02:20:40,360 --> 02:20:42,519
Speaker 13: portray itself as a beacon of prosperity.

2595
02:20:43,120 --> 02:20:44,199
Speaker 6: But oh, here come.

2596
02:20:44,040 --> 02:20:47,000
Speaker 13: The workers with their unrest and protests to sour the

2597
02:20:47,080 --> 02:20:50,160
Speaker 13: vibes and demand the release of political prisoners and the.

2598
02:20:50,160 --> 02:20:51,560
Speaker 6: Abolition of the law of residence.

2599
02:20:52,440 --> 02:20:56,600
Speaker 13: Naturally, the government responded by declaring a state of internal war,

2600
02:20:57,240 --> 02:21:02,200
Speaker 13: arresting hundreds of anarchists, including four leaders, and imposing extreme

2601
02:21:02,320 --> 02:21:07,200
Speaker 13: censorship and restrictions and civil liberties, shut downs of publications,

2602
02:21:07,440 --> 02:21:11,400
Speaker 13: and the declaration of a state of emergency. The government

2603
02:21:11,440 --> 02:21:14,600
Speaker 13: also introduced the Social Defense Law, which levied a series

2604
02:21:14,640 --> 02:21:19,600
Speaker 13: of penalties against anarchist activities, specifically as a centennial celebrations unfolded,

2605
02:21:20,000 --> 02:21:24,440
Speaker 13: Argentina had transformed into a heavily militarized state, with more

2606
02:21:24,480 --> 02:21:29,240
Speaker 13: than two thousand anarchists arrested or deported. So much for

2607
02:21:29,280 --> 02:21:35,800
Speaker 13: a grand celebration of their free democracy. Despite the repression,

2608
02:21:36,240 --> 02:21:40,400
Speaker 13: the workers move once continued to grow. Forest general strikes

2609
02:21:40,440 --> 02:21:43,320
Speaker 13: forced the government to make concessions and release jailed workers,

2610
02:21:44,080 --> 02:21:47,520
Speaker 13: but divisions began to appear within the movement after deal

2611
02:21:47,560 --> 02:21:50,760
Speaker 13: with so much repression for their erratical ideas. A split

2612
02:21:50,760 --> 02:21:53,160
Speaker 13: occurred in nineteen oh nine with the formation of the

2613
02:21:53,160 --> 02:21:56,720
Speaker 13: syndicalist group CORA, which adopted much of for US structure

2614
02:21:57,120 --> 02:22:00,960
Speaker 13: and retained some anarchist ideas, but leaned awards a less

2615
02:22:01,040 --> 02:22:05,520
Speaker 13: radical approach, hoping to be less of a target. The

2616
02:22:05,560 --> 02:22:08,800
Speaker 13: anarchist took yet another hit when in nineteen twelve the

2617
02:22:08,840 --> 02:22:13,640
Speaker 13: Science Penier Law made voting secret and obligatory, thus making

2618
02:22:13,680 --> 02:22:18,560
Speaker 13: anarchists abstentionism as a tactic illegal. The range of possible

2619
02:22:18,600 --> 02:22:23,840
Speaker 13: actions was being intentionally closed. While they were these external pressures,

2620
02:22:24,080 --> 02:22:25,880
Speaker 13: anarchists also had to deal with the pressures from within

2621
02:22:25,920 --> 02:22:28,520
Speaker 13: the workers' movement by even more folks who wanted to

2622
02:22:28,520 --> 02:22:32,720
Speaker 13: compromise the revolutionary goals. Another split between the synicalist anarchists

2623
02:22:32,720 --> 02:22:35,760
Speaker 13: occurred to the for US ninth Congress in nineteen fifteen.

2624
02:22:36,800 --> 02:22:42,039
Speaker 13: Unions were increasingly led by reformists, social democrats, and uncommitted anarchists,

2625
02:22:42,400 --> 02:22:45,880
Speaker 13: which led to the thesis of a neutral cyndicalism focused

2626
02:22:45,920 --> 02:22:48,959
Speaker 13: on winning workers' rights becoming the dominant position within fur Her,

2627
02:22:49,840 --> 02:22:53,280
Speaker 13: the synicalists dropped their commitment to anarchist communism and claimed

2628
02:22:53,280 --> 02:22:56,320
Speaker 13: the name the Fora of the Ninth Congress, while the

2629
02:22:56,320 --> 02:22:59,840
Speaker 13: minority of anarchists that maintained their commitments anarchist communism took

2630
02:22:59,840 --> 02:23:03,879
Speaker 13: the name the Fura of the Fifth Congress. The timing

2631
02:23:03,920 --> 02:23:08,280
Speaker 13: of the split was impeccable, though you see, as has

2632
02:23:08,320 --> 02:23:11,200
Speaker 13: been a recurring theme in this series, the Russian Revolution

2633
02:23:11,280 --> 02:23:16,000
Speaker 13: of nineteen seventeen had a significant impact in Argentinian anarchism.

2634
02:23:16,240 --> 02:23:19,560
Speaker 13: In a sense, it reignited the revolutionary fever within the

2635
02:23:19,600 --> 02:23:22,760
Speaker 13: movement and led to the reformist and cynicalist four or

2636
02:23:22,840 --> 02:23:28,320
Speaker 13: nine losing influence, but revolutionary ideas once again gained momentum.

2637
02:23:28,680 --> 02:23:32,520
Speaker 13: For a brief moment, there was hope, but the Bolsheviks

2638
02:23:32,520 --> 02:23:37,560
Speaker 13: will waste little time in crushing that hope. By nineteen twenty,

2639
02:23:38,080 --> 02:23:42,400
Speaker 13: Argentinian anarchists, like their European counterparts, began to distance themselves

2640
02:23:42,440 --> 02:23:45,680
Speaker 13: from Leninism. They began to recognize the authority and nature

2641
02:23:45,720 --> 02:23:49,760
Speaker 13: of the Bolsheviks, took note of Kropotkin and Lenin's correspondences

2642
02:23:49,959 --> 02:23:53,320
Speaker 13: and soon came to reject the idea of the dictatorship

2643
02:23:53,360 --> 02:23:57,760
Speaker 13: of the proletaria. On his part, alongside his mass slats

2644
02:23:57,760 --> 02:24:00,440
Speaker 13: of the anarchists in Constat. Then in all So ordered

2645
02:24:00,440 --> 02:24:04,119
Speaker 13: the confiscation of anarchist texts, but he saw us influencing

2646
02:24:04,200 --> 02:24:10,840
Speaker 13: the conflict within the Bolshevik ranks. Tale as old as time. Anyway,

2647
02:24:11,640 --> 02:24:15,039
Speaker 13: next time we'll see if and how the anarchist Argentina

2648
02:24:15,120 --> 02:24:19,520
Speaker 13: managed to navigate the tumultuous twenties, thirties and beyond to

2649
02:24:19,600 --> 02:24:23,840
Speaker 13: leave a lasting mark on Argentine history. But things are

2650
02:24:23,920 --> 02:24:27,959
Speaker 13: looking too good for them right now. Until then, we'll

2651
02:24:28,000 --> 02:24:30,280
Speaker 13: power to all the people. This has been It could

2652
02:24:30,280 --> 02:24:53,160
Speaker 13: happen here. Hello, and welcome back to it could happen here,

2653
02:24:53,600 --> 02:24:58,600
Speaker 13: Amandrew Sage. F'm me on YouTube at Andrew's I'm here

2654
02:24:58,640 --> 02:25:00,240
Speaker 13: once again with.

2655
02:25:01,600 --> 02:25:05,440
Speaker 4: Oh be a haha. That was by Q. Yeah indeed, yeah,

2656
02:25:05,560 --> 02:25:06,680
Speaker 4: she's here.

2657
02:25:07,280 --> 02:25:10,480
Speaker 13: And today we'll continue in the Latin American Anarchism series

2658
02:25:10,480 --> 02:25:15,320
Speaker 13: with our exploration of anarchism in Argentina. That's the scholarship

2659
02:25:15,360 --> 02:25:19,600
Speaker 13: of Chuck Moss, Jeffrey de la Focade, and Hill Capelletti

2660
02:25:20,560 --> 02:25:26,120
Speaker 13: and Jose Antonio Guterrez and Ian McKay. When we us left,

2661
02:25:26,160 --> 02:25:29,840
Speaker 13: all faious laws and government actions were pressed hard on

2662
02:25:29,879 --> 02:25:33,519
Speaker 13: the anarchist cause in the country, which when the anarchists executed,

2663
02:25:33,640 --> 02:25:37,560
Speaker 13: jailed or exiled, what become of the anarchist movement? Where

2664
02:25:37,560 --> 02:25:42,560
Speaker 13: things get better or worse? Sad to say, I think

2665
02:25:42,600 --> 02:25:46,240
Speaker 13: you know the answer. Nineteen nineteen marked the year of

2666
02:25:46,320 --> 02:25:51,520
Speaker 13: La Simana Tragica or the Tragic Week, when several metal

2667
02:25:51,520 --> 02:25:54,600
Speaker 13: workers were killed by strike breakers. This led to a

2668
02:25:54,640 --> 02:25:57,920
Speaker 13: general strike that shut down the entire country and pushed

2669
02:25:57,920 --> 02:26:00,880
Speaker 13: Buenos Aires into a state of chaos for several days.

2670
02:26:01,480 --> 02:26:05,800
Speaker 13: The anarchist paper A Protester, noted the complete shutdown and

2671
02:26:05,879 --> 02:26:07,199
Speaker 13: praised workers solidarity.

2672
02:26:08,040 --> 02:26:09,760
Speaker 6: But despite the revolutionhang.

2673
02:26:09,240 --> 02:26:13,680
Speaker 13: Atmosphere, the movement lacked a clear objective, which weakened its

2674
02:26:13,760 --> 02:26:14,640
Speaker 13: long term impact.

2675
02:26:15,240 --> 02:26:18,160
Speaker 6: They had the power, but didn't do too much with it.

2676
02:26:18,959 --> 02:26:23,280
Speaker 13: Eventually, the police and Argentina's first fascist organization, Lega Patriotica,

2677
02:26:23,680 --> 02:26:26,640
Speaker 13: were able to subdue the rebellion. The fascists, by the way,

2678
02:26:26,640 --> 02:26:29,520
Speaker 13: we were backed by military figures like Rare Admirals burmech

2679
02:26:29,600 --> 02:26:35,000
Speaker 13: Garcia and O'Connor. They attacked and killed with impunity, and

2680
02:26:35,040 --> 02:26:38,000
Speaker 13: in the end the fifty five thousand were detained, with

2681
02:26:38,120 --> 02:26:41,560
Speaker 13: anarchists sent to Martin, Garcia, Ireland, and as many as

2682
02:26:41,600 --> 02:26:45,879
Speaker 13: seven hundred were killed and four thousand were injured. The

2683
02:26:45,920 --> 02:26:49,360
Speaker 13: anarchist move one persisted as they always do. That protester

2684
02:26:49,480 --> 02:26:52,480
Speaker 13: continued publishing, alongside the launch of new papers like Mandera

2685
02:26:52,560 --> 02:26:57,400
Speaker 13: Roja and Tribuna Proletaria, even after the government banned anarchist

2686
02:26:57,400 --> 02:27:00,120
Speaker 13: press in March nineteen nineteen. They move on contained you

2687
02:27:00,200 --> 02:27:04,800
Speaker 13: to organize, culminating an extraordinary Congress of two hundred unions

2688
02:27:04,840 --> 02:27:08,640
Speaker 13: in September nineteen twenty. Throughout the nineteen twenties, four or

2689
02:27:08,680 --> 02:27:12,640
Speaker 13: five remained a powerful force in Argentina's labor movement, pushing

2690
02:27:12,680 --> 02:27:15,760
Speaker 13: for causes like the six hour weekday and resistant rise

2691
02:27:15,800 --> 02:27:20,360
Speaker 13: in nationalists and military sentiments, but throughout came more repression.

2692
02:27:21,120 --> 02:27:23,560
Speaker 13: In nineteen twenty one, Argentinian workers there Are for A

2693
02:27:23,600 --> 02:27:26,359
Speaker 13: style in the Chaco region were brutally killed for demanding

2694
02:27:26,400 --> 02:27:31,080
Speaker 13: better wages and conditions. The anarchist FOURR proposed solidarity actions,

2695
02:27:31,280 --> 02:27:34,560
Speaker 13: but the more reformist FORA the Ninth Congress, distanced itself,

2696
02:27:35,040 --> 02:27:39,320
Speaker 13: leaving the movement unsupported. This indifference, unfortunately also extended to

2697
02:27:39,360 --> 02:27:42,600
Speaker 13: other violent incidents, such as the murder of workers were

2698
02:27:42,600 --> 02:27:47,240
Speaker 13: the fascist Legal Patriotica in gualle Kuaiaju, and worse still,

2699
02:27:47,280 --> 02:27:50,720
Speaker 13: with the largely unreported massacres of striking rural workers in

2700
02:27:50,760 --> 02:27:54,879
Speaker 13: Patagonia by the army sending fifteen hundred to death by

2701
02:27:54,959 --> 02:27:58,760
Speaker 13: firing squad, an event ignored by most media except for

2702
02:27:58,800 --> 02:28:02,840
Speaker 13: anarchist outlets like Leberate Esther. In this case, at least

2703
02:28:02,840 --> 02:28:06,119
Speaker 13: the anarchists got their get back somewhat later, when German

2704
02:28:06,160 --> 02:28:10,280
Speaker 13: anarchists could Wilkins assassinated, couldn't Hector Valera, the military leader

2705
02:28:10,360 --> 02:28:12,040
Speaker 13: responsible for the killers.

2706
02:28:12,520 --> 02:28:17,600
Speaker 4: That whole story is so wild because the German assassin

2707
02:28:17,720 --> 02:28:21,320
Speaker 4: was also a pacifist. But it's just like fuck it.

2708
02:28:21,320 --> 02:28:23,200
Speaker 6: With ball, Yeah, I mean sometimes they had to do

2709
02:28:23,200 --> 02:28:23,760
Speaker 6: what you had to do.

2710
02:28:24,160 --> 02:28:27,160
Speaker 13: Yeah, And I mean the government got it to get

2711
02:28:27,200 --> 02:28:30,519
Speaker 13: back as well, because Wilkins was later murdered in retaliation

2712
02:28:30,920 --> 02:28:34,879
Speaker 13: for his murder of you know, Hector Valera. But at

2713
02:28:34,959 --> 02:28:39,040
Speaker 13: least that led to general strike across Argentina. It truly

2714
02:28:39,160 --> 02:28:44,920
Speaker 13: is a wild story. Anarchists in Argentina further agitated in

2715
02:28:44,920 --> 02:28:48,920
Speaker 13: opposition to the trial and execution of Italian American anarchists

2716
02:28:49,040 --> 02:28:52,480
Speaker 13: Sacco and Vanzetti in the United States in nineteen twenty seven.

2717
02:28:53,560 --> 02:28:57,280
Speaker 13: This was a notorious case by the way, but we'll

2718
02:28:57,280 --> 02:29:00,880
Speaker 13: pull that string another time. There was anarchist who took

2719
02:29:00,920 --> 02:29:04,039
Speaker 13: the protests in a different direction, though known to be

2720
02:29:04,360 --> 02:29:09,080
Speaker 13: prolific in his acts of violence. Italian anarchists Severino the Giovanni,

2721
02:29:09,240 --> 02:29:12,840
Speaker 13: carried out bombin's against the American embassy to protest the trial,

2722
02:29:13,440 --> 02:29:17,320
Speaker 13: bombings against the Italian consulate to protest Italian fascism, and

2723
02:29:17,480 --> 02:29:22,080
Speaker 13: robberies throughout the country. The Giovanni's actions sparked debate among

2724
02:29:22,120 --> 02:29:27,400
Speaker 13: anarchists about the issue of quote unquote anarcho banditry. Some papers,

2725
02:29:27,480 --> 02:29:33,320
Speaker 13: like Landtorchia, defended the Giovanni, others like That Protester, attacked him.

2726
02:29:33,600 --> 02:29:34,720
Speaker 6: The Giovanni's fight.

2727
02:29:34,600 --> 02:29:37,000
Speaker 13: Came to an end in nineteen thirty one, when he

2728
02:29:37,080 --> 02:29:39,440
Speaker 13: was arrested and executed for carrying out the murder of

2729
02:29:39,560 --> 02:29:42,760
Speaker 13: one of his fascest fellow anarchist critics, a certain La

2730
02:29:42,840 --> 02:29:48,000
Speaker 13: Protester editor named Emilio Lopez Arango. As it could probably imagine,

2731
02:29:48,600 --> 02:29:52,920
Speaker 13: they weren't any general strikes to protest the Giovanni's execution.

2732
02:29:54,240 --> 02:29:58,760
Speaker 13: General Jose Felix Urriburu led a coup in nineteen thirty

2733
02:29:59,040 --> 02:30:02,440
Speaker 13: that marked the ra eyes of fascism in Argentina and

2734
02:30:02,480 --> 02:30:08,400
Speaker 13: the continuation of systematic persecution against workers and anarchists. Many

2735
02:30:08,440 --> 02:30:12,480
Speaker 13: were imprisoned, deported, or killed, including prominent figures like Juan

2736
02:30:12,480 --> 02:30:17,119
Speaker 13: Antonio Moran and Joaquin Penina. Anarchist groups and unions were

2737
02:30:17,120 --> 02:30:21,400
Speaker 13: oppressed under Uriburu's martial law, whither more moderate Confederacio and

2738
02:30:21,520 --> 02:30:27,560
Speaker 13: General del Trabajo or SGT, dominated by reformers. Socialists survived

2739
02:30:27,959 --> 02:30:30,760
Speaker 13: and became the main representative of workers in the country

2740
02:30:31,120 --> 02:30:35,920
Speaker 13: thanks to Uriburu's corporatist stats. Martial law was peeled back

2741
02:30:35,959 --> 02:30:39,640
Speaker 13: slightly by nineteen thirty two. With such heavy blows the movement,

2742
02:30:40,160 --> 02:30:43,279
Speaker 13: anarchists had to pull back to the more countercultural efforts

2743
02:30:43,320 --> 02:30:47,080
Speaker 13: to define their movement. In the eighteen eighties, for Our

2744
02:30:47,120 --> 02:30:51,160
Speaker 13: resumed publishing activities with that protester returning as a daily

2745
02:30:51,920 --> 02:30:55,600
Speaker 13: but government pressure, including action against his editors and restrictions

2746
02:30:55,600 --> 02:30:59,439
Speaker 13: and postal services, made it difficult to maintain this daily schedule.

2747
02:31:00,280 --> 02:31:04,440
Speaker 13: Eventuallyla Protest transition to a weekly, then bi weekly, and

2748
02:31:04,520 --> 02:31:09,640
Speaker 13: family monthly publication. Despite these challenges, a group of anarchist

2749
02:31:09,680 --> 02:31:13,160
Speaker 13: militants and via Devoto Prison, conceived the idea of a

2750
02:31:13,280 --> 02:31:17,560
Speaker 13: national Anarchist Congress. This congress first met in September nineteen

2751
02:31:17,600 --> 02:31:20,039
Speaker 13: thirty two in the Rosario, which that it gets from

2752
02:31:20,040 --> 02:31:24,120
Speaker 13: across the country, and one key outcome of this congress

2753
02:31:24,480 --> 02:31:27,920
Speaker 13: was the creation of the Committee Rijonal de re Laciones

2754
02:31:28,160 --> 02:31:33,120
Speaker 13: Anarquistas or the CRIRA. This later foundation for became the

2755
02:31:33,240 --> 02:31:37,600
Speaker 13: Argentine Anacho Communist Federation or FACER in nineteen thirty five,

2756
02:31:38,240 --> 02:31:42,920
Speaker 13: although the organization never really gained a mass following in

2757
02:31:42,959 --> 02:31:45,880
Speaker 13: nineteen thirty five, anarchists also established to be able to

2758
02:31:45,959 --> 02:31:49,840
Speaker 13: take er Popular Jose in h niros a library and

2759
02:31:49,959 --> 02:31:53,760
Speaker 13: social center. While initially founded the support of socialists, the

2760
02:31:53,800 --> 02:31:57,879
Speaker 13: anarchist took full control after the socialists left. Around this time,

2761
02:31:58,240 --> 02:32:01,959
Speaker 13: anarchist groups campaign faiercely to free Voto Maini and the

2762
02:32:02,000 --> 02:32:05,600
Speaker 13: Diago comrades, who had been tortured and imprisoned for over

2763
02:32:05,720 --> 02:32:09,600
Speaker 13: a decade. The newspaper just this year was created solely

2764
02:32:09,640 --> 02:32:12,520
Speaker 13: to advocate for their release, who was finally granted in

2765
02:32:12,600 --> 02:32:16,760
Speaker 13: nineteen forty two. Throughout this period, the anarchist press remained active,

2766
02:32:17,400 --> 02:32:22,160
Speaker 13: the number of publications diminished. Several publishing houses like not Review, Iman,

2767
02:32:22,320 --> 02:32:27,520
Speaker 13: Tupac and Reconstrier kept anarchist literature alive, publishing key works

2768
02:32:27,560 --> 02:32:31,560
Speaker 13: and essays. In nineteen thirty three, Accion Libertaria emerged and

2769
02:32:31,600 --> 02:32:34,960
Speaker 13: eventually became the voice of FACA, later owners the Federacion

2770
02:32:35,040 --> 02:32:39,640
Speaker 13: Libertaria Argentina or FLA until nineteen seventy one. But the

2771
02:32:39,720 --> 02:32:43,240
Speaker 13: most significant international event for Argentine anarchists during the nineteen

2772
02:32:43,280 --> 02:32:47,000
Speaker 13: thirties was the Spanish Civil War. The rise of fascist

2773
02:32:47,000 --> 02:32:50,160
Speaker 13: among the resistance, led by the CNT and Federacio Anarchista

2774
02:32:50,200 --> 02:32:55,440
Speaker 13: Iberica or FAI, inspired Argentine anarchists to provide solidarity and support.

2775
02:32:56,280 --> 02:32:59,040
Speaker 13: Many traveled to Spain to join the fight, with Jose

2776
02:32:59,160 --> 02:33:02,480
Speaker 13: Grenfeld become and the secretary of the FAI. Campaigns to

2777
02:33:02,520 --> 02:33:05,800
Speaker 13: support anti fascists in the Spanish Civil War were also launched,

2778
02:33:06,160 --> 02:33:09,680
Speaker 13: with FACA publishing books and pamphlets in the struggle. FACA

2779
02:33:09,760 --> 02:33:13,560
Speaker 13: launched Saladari dad Operera in nineteen forty one, edited by

2780
02:33:13,640 --> 02:33:17,040
Speaker 13: Juan Corral and Loreano Rieira, though it was later shut

2781
02:33:17,040 --> 02:33:21,560
Speaker 13: down by the first Justici Aalista government under Peron. FURA

2782
02:33:21,680 --> 02:33:25,520
Speaker 13: also began publishing a series of booklets, including Toros condre

2783
02:33:25,600 --> 02:33:29,640
Speaker 13: la Guerra in nineteen thirty five and Lucca Constructiva Pola

2784
02:33:29,680 --> 02:33:34,280
Speaker 13: Lebordad e Justicia in nineteen forty four. One notable libertarian

2785
02:33:34,320 --> 02:33:38,920
Speaker 13: cultural journal, Ombre de America, ran from January nineteen forty

2786
02:33:39,080 --> 02:33:42,160
Speaker 13: until the end of nineteen forty five, covering nearly the

2787
02:33:42,320 --> 02:33:46,560
Speaker 13: entire duration of the Second World War. FACA was clear

2788
02:33:46,600 --> 02:33:49,000
Speaker 13: about its position on the global conflicts of the time.

2789
02:33:49,400 --> 02:33:52,320
Speaker 13: In nineteen forty two General Plennary, the group denounced both

2790
02:33:52,360 --> 02:33:56,959
Speaker 13: Western democracies, which they saw as vlain capitalist exploitation, and

2791
02:33:57,040 --> 02:34:01,760
Speaker 13: the Soviet Union, which they deemed bureaucratic. However, they saw

2792
02:34:01,760 --> 02:34:06,080
Speaker 13: the greatest threat in national socialism the Nazis and the

2793
02:34:06,200 --> 02:34:09,279
Speaker 13: rise of the Third Reich one in the total tyrrianism

2794
02:34:09,800 --> 02:34:13,640
Speaker 13: was the worst danger of their era. Faker's statement of

2795
02:34:13,680 --> 02:34:17,600
Speaker 13: solidarity with the oppressed under the Nazi barbarity also recognized

2796
02:34:17,600 --> 02:34:21,280
Speaker 13: the threat posed by Soviet expansionism and the force promises

2797
02:34:21,320 --> 02:34:26,200
Speaker 13: of post war democracies. Domestically, FAKA and FA faced a

2798
02:34:26,240 --> 02:34:30,200
Speaker 13: new challenge with the rise of Juan Domingo Perun. His

2799
02:34:30,440 --> 02:34:36,039
Speaker 13: populist approach, while beneficial somewhat to workers, was paradoxical for anarchists.

2800
02:34:36,720 --> 02:34:41,680
Speaker 13: Prone's government promoted a state centered jingoistic project that co

2801
02:34:41,720 --> 02:34:47,160
Speaker 13: opted labor movements through control networks, undermining genuine proletarian democracy.

2802
02:34:47,800 --> 02:34:51,280
Speaker 13: Anarchists rejected Peranism, seen its as a threat to the

2803
02:34:51,320 --> 02:34:57,120
Speaker 13: revolutionary ethos of worker's solidarity. Despite this, fora retained some influence,

2804
02:34:57,600 --> 02:35:01,439
Speaker 13: especially among agricultural workers, who were caught between the identities

2805
02:35:01,480 --> 02:35:06,039
Speaker 13: of peasants and workers. In June nineteen forty six, anarchist

2806
02:35:06,080 --> 02:35:10,800
Speaker 13: launched a new newspaper, Reconstruire, with Louista Luci as editor.

2807
02:35:11,640 --> 02:35:15,160
Speaker 13: The first issue featured Jaccobo Prince's critique of Peranism in

2808
02:35:15,200 --> 02:35:20,760
Speaker 13: an article titled El totali tarismo falsea il Principio de

2809
02:35:20,959 --> 02:35:26,240
Speaker 13: Justicia social, calling out the regime's distortion of social justice.

2810
02:35:27,280 --> 02:35:30,400
Speaker 13: By the late nineteen forties and early nineteen fifties, FA's

2811
02:35:30,440 --> 02:35:34,120
Speaker 13: influence had waned and anacosynicalism was reduced to a smaller

2812
02:35:34,240 --> 02:35:38,240
Speaker 13: role in Argentina's labor movement. However, the Sociya Dad there

2813
02:35:38,240 --> 02:35:42,959
Speaker 13: Resistencia del p del Puerto, aligned with FA, demonstrated their

2814
02:35:42,959 --> 02:35:46,720
Speaker 13: commitment to anarchosynicalism in nineteen fifty two by rejecting a

2815
02:35:46,760 --> 02:35:51,440
Speaker 13: compulsory wage tax to fund a monument to Eva Peron

2816
02:35:51,720 --> 02:35:52,520
Speaker 13: Jesus Christ.

2817
02:35:53,360 --> 02:35:55,040
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2818
02:35:55,200 --> 02:35:58,120
Speaker 13: This act of defiance led to the imprisonment of several

2819
02:35:58,120 --> 02:36:02,039
Speaker 13: militants for six months. Imagine you decide you want to

2820
02:36:02,080 --> 02:36:08,360
Speaker 13: reject extra taxes because the dictator's wife demands a monument

2821
02:36:08,560 --> 02:36:13,440
Speaker 13: like that's the ethrone jail because you decide you don't

2822
02:36:13,480 --> 02:36:14,320
Speaker 13: want to pay that tax.

2823
02:36:15,200 --> 02:36:17,279
Speaker 4: God, this terrible stuff.

2824
02:36:18,400 --> 02:36:22,520
Speaker 13: While Peerans regime weakened free unism, he did so by

2825
02:36:22,560 --> 02:36:26,400
Speaker 13: means of corruption rather than violence, contrasting with the methods

2826
02:36:26,400 --> 02:36:31,320
Speaker 13: of his predecessor Urriburu. Facer continued its work well then

2827
02:36:31,440 --> 02:36:34,480
Speaker 13: several congresses, including the fourth in nineteen fifty one and

2828
02:36:34,520 --> 02:36:37,720
Speaker 13: the fifth of nineteen fifty five, just before Peroans overthrew

2829
02:36:38,560 --> 02:36:42,959
Speaker 13: in nineteen fifty five. Facker rebranded as the Federacion Libertaria

2830
02:36:43,080 --> 02:36:46,920
Speaker 13: Argentina or the FLA, and the FLA held its sixth

2831
02:36:46,920 --> 02:36:50,480
Speaker 13: congress in nineteen sixty one, and his journal records career,

2832
02:36:50,800 --> 02:36:54,400
Speaker 13: published regularly from nineteen fifty nine until nineteen seventy six,

2833
02:36:55,040 --> 02:37:08,120
Speaker 13: coincided with the onset of Argentina's most brutal dictatorship. But

2834
02:37:08,200 --> 02:37:10,920
Speaker 13: before we fast forward in nineteen seventy six, we need

2835
02:37:11,000 --> 02:37:14,720
Speaker 13: to explore took place in the sixties. The sixties are

2836
02:37:14,760 --> 02:37:17,039
Speaker 13: known as the New Left era in many parts of

2837
02:37:17,040 --> 02:37:21,120
Speaker 13: the world thanks to the rise of student radicalism. The

2838
02:37:21,160 --> 02:37:24,560
Speaker 13: New Left is marked by a notable libertarian and democratic impulse,

2839
02:37:25,040 --> 02:37:28,640
Speaker 13: an emphasis on cultural as well as political transformation, an

2840
02:37:28,640 --> 02:37:31,720
Speaker 13: extension of traditional lefts focus in class struggle to achnowledge

2841
02:37:31,800 --> 02:37:35,280
Speaker 13: multiple forms and basis of oppression, including race and gender,

2842
02:37:35,840 --> 02:37:39,080
Speaker 13: an emphasis and anti imperialism and anti clonalism, and a

2843
02:37:39,160 --> 02:37:43,280
Speaker 13: rejection of bureaucracy and traditional forms of political organization in

2844
02:37:43,320 --> 02:37:48,160
Speaker 13: favor of direct action and participatory democracy. Many youth were

2845
02:37:48,160 --> 02:37:52,880
Speaker 13: searching for a third way outside of Soviet and Western models,

2846
02:37:53,920 --> 02:37:57,200
Speaker 13: so during the nineteen sixties and seventies, a new generation

2847
02:37:57,280 --> 02:38:01,280
Speaker 13: of Argentine youth turned to anarchism, though they struggled to

2848
02:38:01,320 --> 02:38:05,520
Speaker 13: collaborate with the older anarchist movements. Cultural and political differences

2849
02:38:05,560 --> 02:38:08,960
Speaker 13: were the heart of this divide, with younger militantligning themselves

2850
02:38:08,959 --> 02:38:11,720
Speaker 13: more to global anti imperureless movements at the time than

2851
02:38:11,760 --> 02:38:15,720
Speaker 13: with the anarchist legacy already within Argentina. In some ways,

2852
02:38:16,080 --> 02:38:19,040
Speaker 13: this generational riff left a scar in the anarchist struggle.

2853
02:38:19,640 --> 02:38:22,320
Speaker 13: In other ways helped younger anarchists to develop a clearer

2854
02:38:22,400 --> 02:38:26,280
Speaker 13: ideological stance compared to their counterparts in countries where such

2855
02:38:26,320 --> 02:38:30,560
Speaker 13: internal conflicts were less prevalent. One of the most significant

2856
02:38:30,560 --> 02:38:34,119
Speaker 13: anarchist groups to emerge during this period was Resistancia Libertaria.

2857
02:38:34,720 --> 02:38:39,480
Speaker 13: Operating condestantly and with a cellular structure, RL aimed to

2858
02:38:39,560 --> 02:38:44,160
Speaker 13: ignite mass resistance and ultimately spark a prolonged popular war.

2859
02:38:44,920 --> 02:38:48,760
Speaker 13: The group was active in neighborhoods, labor movements, and student circles,

2860
02:38:49,200 --> 02:38:51,600
Speaker 13: and it had a small armed wing for defense and

2861
02:38:51,640 --> 02:38:57,359
Speaker 13: expropriation purposes. Although it was formerly a national organization, RL's

2862
02:38:57,400 --> 02:39:02,000
Speaker 13: main operations were in La Plata, Cordoba and purosiris A.

2863
02:39:02,200 --> 02:39:06,280
Speaker 13: Argentina grew increasingly polarized in the mid nineteen seventies, arial

2864
02:39:06,320 --> 02:39:10,879
Speaker 13: activists became targets. Many were disappeared even before the military

2865
02:39:10,879 --> 02:39:14,520
Speaker 13: coup of nineteen seventy six, but then it hit Henry

2866
02:39:14,600 --> 02:39:18,760
Speaker 13: Kissinger at the United States Machinations or fruit.

2867
02:39:20,480 --> 02:39:22,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we go in there.

2868
02:39:24,040 --> 02:39:28,400
Speaker 13: A military coup overthrew President Isabel Peron, the third wife

2869
02:39:28,440 --> 02:39:31,800
Speaker 13: of the original Peron, and installed a junta led by

2870
02:39:31,879 --> 02:39:37,240
Speaker 13: Lieutenant General Jorgue Rafael videla Admiral Emilio Eduardo Masserra and

2871
02:39:37,320 --> 02:39:41,440
Speaker 13: Brigadier General Orlando Ramon Augusti. This coup was part of

2872
02:39:41,520 --> 02:39:46,160
Speaker 13: Operation Condo, a coordinated effort between Latin American dictatorships back

2873
02:39:46,200 --> 02:39:50,480
Speaker 13: with the United States under its Cold War National Security doctrine.

2874
02:39:50,680 --> 02:39:54,199
Speaker 13: The aim was allegedly to maintain stability in the region

2875
02:39:54,520 --> 02:39:58,760
Speaker 13: that America considers its backyard, and US officials, including Kissinger,

2876
02:39:59,200 --> 02:40:02,120
Speaker 13: was shorten meet with Argentine military leaders after the coup

2877
02:40:02,640 --> 02:40:06,280
Speaker 13: encouraged them to wipe out the opposition quickly and brutally

2878
02:40:06,720 --> 02:40:10,440
Speaker 13: before any winy human rights concerned started to be raised internationally.

2879
02:40:10,959 --> 02:40:13,960
Speaker 13: The junta remained in power until December nineteen eighty three,

2880
02:40:14,360 --> 02:40:18,440
Speaker 13: during which time some thirty thousand people were disappeared or executed.

2881
02:40:19,360 --> 02:40:24,120
Speaker 13: RL militants were particularly targeted by the regime. One particularly

2882
02:40:24,160 --> 02:40:27,640
Speaker 13: horrible story I have to share. The military men responsible

2883
02:40:27,680 --> 02:40:32,080
Speaker 13: for the killings often spared pregnant women, kept them in

2884
02:40:32,120 --> 02:40:35,960
Speaker 13: custody until they gave birth, then killed the mothers and

2885
02:40:36,080 --> 02:40:38,600
Speaker 13: gave their influence to childless military families.

2886
02:40:39,040 --> 02:40:39,680
Speaker 4: Is christ.

2887
02:40:40,080 --> 02:40:43,120
Speaker 13: That's the kind of evil with dealing mid Yeah, And

2888
02:40:43,160 --> 02:40:47,200
Speaker 13: despite the dangers, RL continued its activities until nineteen seventy eight,

2889
02:40:47,640 --> 02:40:50,600
Speaker 13: when a series of coordinated police raids dismantled much of

2890
02:40:50,640 --> 02:40:54,520
Speaker 13: the group. Around eighty percent of URL members were detained

2891
02:40:54,520 --> 02:40:58,040
Speaker 13: in concentration camps where they were tortured and most were

2892
02:40:58,080 --> 02:41:02,440
Speaker 13: eventually executed. And that is how you kill a social movement.

2893
02:41:03,959 --> 02:41:06,080
Speaker 13: In the final years of the tatorship and follow on

2894
02:41:06,120 --> 02:41:08,720
Speaker 13: their re establishment of civil government in nineteen eighty three,

2895
02:41:09,240 --> 02:41:12,920
Speaker 13: new and relatively anti authoritarian social movements emerged in Argentina,

2896
02:41:13,720 --> 02:41:16,080
Speaker 13: among the most prominent, with the Madres te la Plaza

2897
02:41:16,120 --> 02:41:19,200
Speaker 13: de Mayo, a group of mothers advocating for justice for

2898
02:41:19,240 --> 02:41:23,080
Speaker 13: those who had been disappeared on the military regime. Alongside them,

2899
02:41:23,560 --> 02:41:27,720
Speaker 13: they are psychologists, feminists, and other grassroots activists began to

2900
02:41:27,720 --> 02:41:31,360
Speaker 13: make their voices heard. This shift marked a significant departure

2901
02:41:31,400 --> 02:41:35,480
Speaker 13: from traditional state centric leftist politics, with a growing inclination

2902
02:41:35,640 --> 02:41:40,080
Speaker 13: towards more decentralized approaches. While this climate sparked renewed interest

2903
02:41:40,120 --> 02:41:43,440
Speaker 13: in anarchism, it didn't lead to a substantial increase in the

2904
02:41:43,480 --> 02:41:48,240
Speaker 13: membership of older anarchist organizations. Instead, it highlighted the transformation

2905
02:41:48,360 --> 02:41:51,240
Speaker 13: and how social movements approached to activism and sought to

2906
02:41:51,240 --> 02:41:55,560
Speaker 13: address issues of justice and accountability, and then we come

2907
02:41:55,560 --> 02:41:59,720
Speaker 13: into the twenty first century. In the early two thousand, Argentina,

2908
02:42:00,040 --> 02:42:03,520
Speaker 13: which was once a poster child for neoliberalism thanks to

2909
02:42:03,560 --> 02:42:07,240
Speaker 13: the actions of the didataship, found itself in the throwers

2910
02:42:07,480 --> 02:42:12,039
Speaker 13: of a devastating economic crisis. This meltdown didn't just affect

2911
02:42:12,080 --> 02:42:15,680
Speaker 13: the economy, ignited a wave of social movements that were

2912
02:42:15,720 --> 02:42:20,760
Speaker 13: far more confrontational, radical, and anarchistic than before, which of

2913
02:42:20,840 --> 02:42:25,040
Speaker 13: the rise of militant neighborhood assemblies, factory takeovers, and intense

2914
02:42:25,040 --> 02:42:29,080
Speaker 13: street protests. What was happened in Argentina was a direct

2915
02:42:29,120 --> 02:42:31,720
Speaker 13: result of more than two decades of so called free

2916
02:42:31,760 --> 02:42:36,720
Speaker 13: market reforms and structural adjustment programs. These policies had left

2917
02:42:36,720 --> 02:42:41,199
Speaker 13: the economy in ruins, with poverty and unemployment levels soaring.

2918
02:42:41,879 --> 02:42:44,640
Speaker 13: By the time the crisis hit, poverty had shot up

2919
02:42:44,640 --> 02:42:48,760
Speaker 13: from thirty one percent to fifty three percent, and unemployment

2920
02:42:48,879 --> 02:42:51,840
Speaker 13: had jumped to twenty one point four percent, nearly a

2921
02:42:51,959 --> 02:43:04,040
Speaker 13: quarter of the country's population. Out of this chaos came

2922
02:43:04,080 --> 02:43:08,480
Speaker 13: the Pictaros, a new movement of unemployed workers who turned

2923
02:43:08,480 --> 02:43:09,400
Speaker 13: their anger.

2924
02:43:09,240 --> 02:43:10,240
Speaker 6: Into direct action.

2925
02:43:11,160 --> 02:43:15,000
Speaker 13: They didn't just march in protest, they blocked roads demanding

2926
02:43:15,120 --> 02:43:18,440
Speaker 13: work and dignity. But what said the Picto's apart from

2927
02:43:18,480 --> 02:43:23,199
Speaker 13: traditional unions was they commitments to horizontal organizing and direct action.

2928
02:43:24,200 --> 02:43:26,920
Speaker 13: They knew that those unions didn't represent them, and they

2929
02:43:26,920 --> 02:43:30,560
Speaker 13: wanted something more than just jobs. They wanted dignity, and

2930
02:43:30,600 --> 02:43:34,120
Speaker 13: they wanted us say in how society was run. One

2931
02:43:34,160 --> 02:43:36,640
Speaker 13: of the voices from this movement, a woman from the

2932
02:43:36,680 --> 02:43:40,360
Speaker 13: Solano neighborhood in Buenos Aires, captured the spirit when she said,

2933
02:43:40,959 --> 02:43:43,080
Speaker 13: I dream of my children finding a way of life

2934
02:43:43,080 --> 02:43:46,440
Speaker 13: here away from the despair the system gives us. We're

2935
02:43:46,480 --> 02:43:52,120
Speaker 13: building something new. Politics without political parties, end code. The

2936
02:43:52,160 --> 02:43:55,920
Speaker 13: Pictaro's didn't just demand employment, they wanted meaningful work.

2937
02:43:56,000 --> 02:43:58,280
Speaker 6: They gave them control over their lives.

2938
02:43:58,680 --> 02:44:00,400
Speaker 13: They weren't looking to be fooled by back into the

2939
02:44:00,440 --> 02:44:03,600
Speaker 13: capitalist system that had failed them. Instead, they called themselves

2940
02:44:03,680 --> 02:44:07,440
Speaker 13: autonomous workers in envisionous society where people took charge their

2941
02:44:07,440 --> 02:44:12,199
Speaker 13: communities and their futures. And then came December two thousand

2942
02:44:12,200 --> 02:44:15,920
Speaker 13: and one. On the nineteenth, the crisis hit a boiling point.

2943
02:44:16,280 --> 02:44:20,000
Speaker 13: All across the country. People took to the streets, unemployed workers,

2944
02:44:20,320 --> 02:44:24,480
Speaker 13: middle class families, and whole neighborhoods They were united in

2945
02:44:24,520 --> 02:44:28,240
Speaker 13: their demands an end to the government's economic policies and

2946
02:44:28,280 --> 02:44:31,520
Speaker 13: the resignation of the deeply unpopular President, Fernando de la Rua.

2947
02:44:32,080 --> 02:44:35,840
Speaker 13: After two days of street battles with police, government collapsed.

2948
02:44:36,560 --> 02:44:40,199
Speaker 13: In the wake of this upheaval. Neighborhood assemblies popped up everywhere,

2949
02:44:40,560 --> 02:44:45,320
Speaker 13: and the pictaros intensified their efforts. Millions of workers across

2950
02:44:45,400 --> 02:44:49,240
Speaker 13: Argentina joined a general strike. In Protasius alone, over a

2951
02:44:49,280 --> 02:44:53,160
Speaker 13: million people defied a government imposed state of emergency flood

2952
02:44:53,160 --> 02:44:56,320
Speaker 13: in the streets in protest. It wasn't just about events

2953
02:44:56,320 --> 02:45:00,760
Speaker 13: and frustration with what reclaiming their power. In a way,

2954
02:45:00,800 --> 02:45:04,520
Speaker 13: the ideas of anarchism, self management, the centralization, and direct

2955
02:45:04,560 --> 02:45:08,600
Speaker 13: action were be input into practice on a truly massive scale,

2956
02:45:09,040 --> 02:45:12,160
Speaker 13: even though anarchist groups themselves didn't necessarily lead the charge.

2957
02:45:13,320 --> 02:45:15,840
Speaker 13: The fight wasn't just on the streets, though, It had

2958
02:45:15,840 --> 02:45:18,440
Speaker 13: to happen in the factories, the fields, across all the

2959
02:45:18,520 --> 02:45:22,480
Speaker 13: sectors of society. They couldn't just remove politicians. They had

2960
02:45:22,480 --> 02:45:25,720
Speaker 13: to dismantle the entire system of exploitation and replace it

2961
02:45:25,800 --> 02:45:28,960
Speaker 13: with something radically different. A key piece of this puzzle

2962
02:45:29,080 --> 02:45:33,240
Speaker 13: was the rise of the fabricas, recuperatas, or reclaim factories.

2963
02:45:33,760 --> 02:45:36,440
Speaker 13: These takeovers didn't start with the two thousand one uprising, though.

2964
02:45:36,800 --> 02:45:40,160
Speaker 13: The first occupation happened back in nineteen ninety six, when

2965
02:45:40,160 --> 02:45:42,680
Speaker 13: workers in a cool storage plant to control after the

2966
02:45:42,720 --> 02:45:47,400
Speaker 13: bosses abandoned it. More factories followed suit, with workers stepping

2967
02:45:47,440 --> 02:45:50,240
Speaker 13: in with an owner's fled But they weren't even trying

2968
02:45:50,280 --> 02:45:53,760
Speaker 13: to launch an offensive against capitalism. They were simply trying

2969
02:45:53,800 --> 02:45:57,119
Speaker 13: to survive, to hold onto their livelihoods and an economy

2970
02:45:57,160 --> 02:45:59,880
Speaker 13: that had pushed them to the edge. By the time

2971
02:46:00,120 --> 02:46:03,400
Speaker 13: of the Argentine Uprising in December two thousand and one,

2972
02:46:04,040 --> 02:46:07,080
Speaker 13: over one hundred and seventy factories had been reclaimed, with

2973
02:46:07,200 --> 02:46:10,320
Speaker 13: some ten thousand workers taking part in this new form

2974
02:46:10,320 --> 02:46:14,959
Speaker 13: of collective labor. The message was clear, when the bosses leave,

2975
02:46:15,440 --> 02:46:17,840
Speaker 13: the workers are more than capable of keeping things running.

2976
02:46:18,959 --> 02:46:21,280
Speaker 13: In these reclaimed factories, they got rid of the traditional

2977
02:46:21,360 --> 02:46:25,600
Speaker 13: management hierarchies and made collective decisions and shared income equally.

2978
02:46:26,320 --> 02:46:30,200
Speaker 13: It was a living example of one potential way society

2979
02:46:30,200 --> 02:46:34,160
Speaker 13: could function without the capitalist class. In the midst of

2980
02:46:34,200 --> 02:46:38,000
Speaker 13: the Argentine economic collaps these workers didn't just resist, they

2981
02:46:38,040 --> 02:46:43,920
Speaker 13: were also producing, hence their banner of occupy resistar prosir,

2982
02:46:44,560 --> 02:46:48,680
Speaker 13: Occupy Resist, produce the newest possible, to not just fight,

2983
02:46:48,840 --> 02:46:50,880
Speaker 13: but to build something new from the ground up, not

2984
02:46:50,959 --> 02:46:53,879
Speaker 13: just to survive, but to lay the foundations for a

2985
02:46:53,920 --> 02:46:58,320
Speaker 13: new society. The cries of kissevayan totros or basically out

2986
02:46:58,360 --> 02:47:02,000
Speaker 13: with all of them called the widespread dissolution with the

2987
02:47:02,200 --> 02:47:07,800
Speaker 13: entire political class. But the sentiment needed to be transformed

2988
02:47:07,800 --> 02:47:12,320
Speaker 13: into something more substantial, a proper political framework to drive

2989
02:47:12,360 --> 02:47:16,640
Speaker 13: the momentum forward. But it's also into this framework, this

2990
02:47:16,959 --> 02:47:20,960
Speaker 13: potentially anarchist framework wasn't fully developed among the population at

2991
02:47:20,959 --> 02:47:23,840
Speaker 13: the time. There were some comrades who were working towards

2992
02:47:23,920 --> 02:47:26,959
Speaker 13: bill in such a framework, but much of the movement,

2993
02:47:27,680 --> 02:47:31,080
Speaker 13: particularly of the left, were focused on elections as a

2994
02:47:31,120 --> 02:47:35,160
Speaker 13: way forward. The logic was simple. A left leading government

2995
02:47:35,160 --> 02:47:38,240
Speaker 13: could introduce policies to a leeviy the situation and prevent

2996
02:47:38,280 --> 02:47:42,000
Speaker 13: the open repression of popular movements. What does this really achieve.

2997
02:47:42,640 --> 02:47:44,720
Speaker 13: It risked the transfer and of the struggle from the streets,

2998
02:47:44,760 --> 02:47:47,600
Speaker 13: from the workplaces, from the hands of the people into

2999
02:47:47,640 --> 02:47:50,560
Speaker 13: the hands of a new set of politicians, shifting the

3000
02:47:50,560 --> 02:47:53,600
Speaker 13: focus from the masses to a few leaders operating within

3001
02:47:53,720 --> 02:47:59,720
Speaker 13: clearly capitalist institutions. The elections were not important. The fight

3002
02:47:59,800 --> 02:48:03,040
Speaker 13: was about winning seats in the government, and that needed

3003
02:48:03,040 --> 02:48:05,720
Speaker 13: to be understood. The fighter was about building a true

3004
02:48:05,760 --> 02:48:09,440
Speaker 13: popular power. Kiss if I am totos out with all

3005
02:48:09,440 --> 02:48:12,720
Speaker 13: of them rejected not just individuals, but the entire political,

3006
02:48:12,800 --> 02:48:16,920
Speaker 13: social and economic power structures. Even though the Argentine people

3007
02:48:16,920 --> 02:48:19,320
Speaker 13: will not identify and as anarchists, they will apply on

3008
02:48:19,480 --> 02:48:23,440
Speaker 13: anarchist principles in many aspects of their struggles, just like

3009
02:48:23,480 --> 02:48:25,920
Speaker 13: the Appatistas and Chiappas who ruse up in nineteen twenty

3010
02:48:25,920 --> 02:48:30,199
Speaker 13: fourth Rally and cry yabasta or enough already. The Argentine

3011
02:48:30,280 --> 02:48:35,359
Speaker 13: uprising was a clear rejection of state power and capitalism.

3012
02:48:35,840 --> 02:48:37,960
Speaker 13: Votes can't last forever, but they could plant the seat

3013
02:48:38,000 --> 02:48:41,440
Speaker 13: of a new society, one built from below. But the

3014
02:48:41,440 --> 02:48:44,600
Speaker 13: movement was torn between the two approaches of whether factory

3015
02:48:44,640 --> 02:48:47,320
Speaker 13: should be managed by workers under state ownership or they

3016
02:48:47,360 --> 02:48:50,840
Speaker 13: should be completely worker owned. Some argue the demanding expropriation

3017
02:48:50,879 --> 02:48:53,480
Speaker 13: why the state wasn't a real solution within a capitalist framework,

3018
02:48:53,959 --> 02:48:56,320
Speaker 13: because the state itself was responsible for the conditions they

3019
02:48:56,400 --> 02:48:59,880
Speaker 13: found themselves in. But even though they argue the true

3020
02:49:00,040 --> 02:49:02,680
Speaker 13: because power came from the workers controlling their own production.

3021
02:49:03,280 --> 02:49:07,560
Speaker 13: On the flip side, cooperatives don't really address the deeper

3022
02:49:07,600 --> 02:49:12,360
Speaker 13: issues of capitalism. Cooperativism does an inherently challenge capitalist relations

3023
02:49:12,400 --> 02:49:16,480
Speaker 13: of production, just tinkers with the surface issues like monopolies,

3024
02:49:16,879 --> 02:49:20,920
Speaker 13: internal structures, and competition. Building a network of cooperatives can

3025
02:49:20,959 --> 02:49:23,720
Speaker 13: be valuable, but it's not going to create a subsystem

3026
02:49:23,800 --> 02:49:28,279
Speaker 13: capable of top len capitalism. Anarchism, and specifically anarchist communist

3027
02:49:28,360 --> 02:49:33,520
Speaker 13: ideas propose something far more transformative. Abortion all forms of

3028
02:49:33,600 --> 02:49:37,520
Speaker 13: farwer exercised by minority, whether the bourgeoisie or the state,

3029
02:49:38,200 --> 02:49:41,160
Speaker 13: assuming control of not just factories and fields, but all

3030
02:49:41,160 --> 02:49:44,320
Speaker 13: of society. It's not a choice between cooperatives or state

3031
02:49:44,360 --> 02:49:48,240
Speaker 13: managed workplaces. It's about creating conditions for all workers and

3032
02:49:48,280 --> 02:49:52,440
Speaker 13: all people to self organize, and such reforms such as

3033
02:49:52,480 --> 02:49:56,720
Speaker 13: reforms for workers to have control of their workplaces merely steps.

3034
02:49:57,000 --> 02:50:01,160
Speaker 13: It's what a much larger goal should be kept in

3035
02:50:01,160 --> 02:50:05,800
Speaker 13: in that struggle. These experiences in this history in Argentina

3036
02:50:05,840 --> 02:50:09,680
Speaker 13: shows us that anarchist ideas are not just lofty dreams.

3037
02:50:10,000 --> 02:50:12,080
Speaker 6: They grounded in real struggles of working people.

3038
02:50:12,280 --> 02:50:17,320
Speaker 13: Consciously or unconsciously proven that a society without bosses, managers

3039
02:50:17,360 --> 02:50:21,280
Speaker 13: and expectation is possible. Every social struggle, every revolutionary action,

3040
02:50:21,360 --> 02:50:26,240
Speaker 13: is another step towards building that world. Through these movements,

3041
02:50:26,240 --> 02:50:29,039
Speaker 13: through these actions, through these struggles, we can see the

3042
02:50:29,040 --> 02:50:32,160
Speaker 13: foundation of a new society. And to the people of

3043
02:50:32,240 --> 02:50:36,120
Speaker 13: Argentina who now face the rule of a new right

3044
02:50:36,160 --> 02:50:40,200
Speaker 13: way menace employees, to stand up and say, once again,

3045
02:50:40,920 --> 02:50:44,879
Speaker 13: kisevan Toros out with all of them, all power to

3046
02:50:44,920 --> 02:50:45,440
Speaker 13: all the people.

3047
02:50:46,680 --> 02:50:47,000
Speaker 6: Peace.

3048
02:50:49,680 --> 02:50:50,320
Speaker 4: Hey, We'll be.

3049
02:50:50,280 --> 02:50:53,640
Speaker 2: Back Monday with more episodes every week from now until

3050
02:50:53,640 --> 02:50:54,800
Speaker 2: the heat death of the universe.

3051
02:50:55,240 --> 02:50:57,720
Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

3052
02:50:57,920 --> 02:51:00,920
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3053
02:51:01,040 --> 02:51:03,600
Speaker 1: cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

3054
02:51:03,640 --> 02:51:07,680
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

3055
02:51:08,000 --> 02:51:09,959
Speaker 1: You can now find sources for It Could Happen here

3056
02:51:09,959 --> 02:51:12,959
Speaker 1: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.