1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: I'm TT and I'm Zakiyah, and this is Dope Labs. 2 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. 4 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but there has been a 5 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: lot on my timeline about whether or not people should 6 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: pay their student loans if they can dispute it the 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: same way you dispute a late payment fee on your MX. 8 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: I think TikTok is not the place for that advice. Honestly, 9 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: it feels like everybody is on the internet telling folks 10 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: what to do, and it doesn't feel like it's coming 11 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: from the right place. Feels like it's coming from an 12 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: angry spot in their heart. And we need facts. Facts, facts, Yeah, 13 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: facts minus emotion. Now, I'm not saying emotion is not compelling, 14 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: but that emotion is not gonna do justice to your 15 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: credit report. 16 00:00:57,880 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: It's not. It's not. 17 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: So we had to turn to one of our favorites 18 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 1: and get some answers. Yes, but before we do that, 19 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: let's jump into the recitation and figure out what we 20 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: know already and what we want to know. First of all, 21 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: I know that there are a lot of misconceptions about 22 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: who has student loans. People angry saying like, oh, it's 23 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: just folks getting multiple degrees, and I'm like, that's not 24 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: even the majority of folks that have student loans, right, 25 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: And we found that out the last time we talked 26 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: about student loans in an episode in the first semester, right, yes, yeah, 27 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: And we know that it's complicated. I mean, honestly, the 28 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,199 Speaker 1: loan process is complicated, and it didn't get any better 29 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: when the pandemic hit and loans were paused, and there's 30 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: all of these like ripple effects that we're feeling now 31 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: that they're being unpaused. And we also know that there 32 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: are people that are taking advantage of the miscommunication or 33 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: the unclear communication. I don't have any student loans right now, 34 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: still getting text messages that say call me about your 35 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: student loan, and if I had them at this point, 36 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: I would be confused or possibly scammed. Right, report as junk, 37 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: Report as junk. Yes, I think one of the things 38 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: that I want to know is how we got here? 39 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 2: Mm hmm, Like where is it? What happened? 40 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: Who fault is it? 41 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 2: Fault is it? 42 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: Because I want to know because I've got questions for 43 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: them specifically, and are they really garnishing wages. I think 44 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: I saw something that was like, they can garnish your 45 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: wages just like child support. They can do the same 46 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,519 Speaker 1: thing about your student loans. Is that true? I have 47 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 1: no idea, but that sounds wild and I would be 48 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: very nervous. I also want to know is it too 49 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: late to write the ship? And is student loan forgiveness 50 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: a thing of the past? Will we never see the thing? Yeah? 51 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: And with all these cuts, is a Department of Education 52 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: still a thing doesn't have teeth? And do those cuts 53 00:02:58,040 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: effect whether or not you have to pay your student loans? 54 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: I think this is a great time to jump into 55 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: the dissection with our friend Colleen Campbell that we had 56 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: back in the first semester when we were talking about 57 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: student loans. 58 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 3: I am Colleen Campbell. 59 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 4: I have published a substact called on Detail, and I've 60 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 4: spent the last fifteen or so years working at think tanks, 61 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 4: at colleges and in the federal government working on higher 62 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,119 Speaker 4: education affordability and federal student loans. 63 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: You know, last time we were here, the conversation was different. Colleen. 64 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: You were up close and personal with the changes that 65 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: started coming out of the Trump administration. Now, before we 66 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,839 Speaker 1: get started really diving into what's different, can you walk 67 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: us through just in the past year so the major 68 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: changes that have been happening inside the Department of Education, 69 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: particularly related to loan servicing and borrow support. 70 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 3: Ooh. 71 00:03:55,960 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 4: So, I had worked at the Department for five and 72 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 4: a half years and my last day was March thirty. 73 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 3: First. 74 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 4: I quit as part of a response to everything that's 75 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 4: going on and the Trump administration, especially in terms of layoffs. 76 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 4: When I left the federal government, I was the newly 77 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 4: appointed executive director of the Office of Loan Portfolio Management, 78 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 4: which is a newly created group at the Office of 79 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 4: Federal Student Aid which manages all of higher education student 80 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 4: aid programs. That group manages all of student loans and 81 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 4: so public service loan Forgiveness, Income driveny Payment Plan, the 82 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 4: SAVE Plan, all loan forgiveness stuff, any debt collection for 83 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 4: asaulted student loans, student loan oversight. I have about two hundred 84 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 4: people reporting to me, and I took over that position 85 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 4: in January twenty twenty five. 86 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: Okay, so before we jump into everything that has changed, 87 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: can you walk us through some of the most commonly 88 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: used student loan payments programs because we all know that 89 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: it's complicated. 90 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 4: So when you borrow your student loans after you leave school, 91 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 4: you are expected to repay, and the federal government offers 92 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 4: a variety of repayment plans available to student loan borrowers. 93 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 4: You kind of get put by default into a plan 94 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 4: that's called the standard plan, which has fixed payments every 95 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 4: month for a ten year period. Now that might be 96 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 4: affordable for you if you're making okay money coming out 97 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 4: of college and you didn't borrow a crazy amount, but 98 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 4: especially for people with a lot of debt, or people 99 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 4: that have been in repayment for a long time and 100 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 4: haven't been paying down their balances, or even people with 101 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 4: lower incomes, that Standard Plan is just like not a 102 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 4: viable option for you. And so the government in nineteen 103 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 4: eighty two, actually Congress created the first income driven repayment plan, 104 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 4: which bases your monthly payments off of your income, and 105 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 4: over time those plans have expanded. So Congress created the 106 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 4: first one in ninety two, then Congress created another one 107 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 4: in two thousand and eight. That plan, income based Repayment, 108 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 4: allowed barbers to pay zero dollars per month for the 109 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 4: first time ever, and then as time went on, and 110 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 4: student loans started to become more and more of a 111 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 4: pressing issue for so many Americans. The executive branch, the 112 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 4: President and President Obama got a little creative with how 113 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 4: they were approaching these things and looked at the Higher 114 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 4: Education Act, which governs a lot of higher ed policy, 115 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 4: and said, we need to create some new repayment plans. 116 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 3: We can't wait for Congress to do it. We got 117 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 3: to do it. 118 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 4: And so they created a variety of plans through regulatory action, 119 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 4: so without Congress passing laws, and over time there were 120 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 4: more and more plans that grew out of this barrow. 121 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 4: You know, folks who have been paying loans for a 122 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 4: while might be familiar with the pay as you earn 123 00:06:55,200 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 4: plan or pay revised pays you earn plan or repay. Yeah, 124 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 4: we're really cool in acronyms and higher out here. 125 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: That brings us to the Biden administration's safe program. 126 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 4: The Biden administration had taken an extremely aggressive policy agenda 127 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:18,119 Speaker 4: for higher education, perhaps the most aggressive policy agenda ever 128 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 4: for higher education, at least from the executive branch. And 129 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 4: so this was really the most generous plan available to 130 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 4: doing the law and borrowers instead of offering forgiveness after 131 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 4: twenty or twenty five years of repayment, which is common 132 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 4: for most of the income driven repayment plans. It offered 133 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 4: forgiveness for some borrowers at ten years, especially if you 134 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 4: know you weren't making a ton of money and so 135 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 4: save was a planned that a lot of people flocked 136 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 4: toward because they saw it as a way for them 137 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 4: to really be able to afford their monthly payments and 138 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 4: potentially get out of debt that they just never saw 139 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 4: a way of paying down. 140 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: This sounds great to me, I mean forgiveness after a 141 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: shorter amount of time. That seems really great for folks 142 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: that were really struggling with paying down their student loans. 143 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: But I know everything that glitters is my goal. It 144 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: has got to be something else to it. 145 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 4: They had tried and failed to forgive student loans. They 146 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:16,559 Speaker 4: had tried to create this new, more affordable repayment plan. 147 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 4: We had succeeded in awarding new loan servicing contracts and 148 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 4: rebuilding the way that public service loan forgiveness worked. And 149 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 4: by the time that the Trump administration came in, there 150 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 4: were a lot of policies that were kind of half done. 151 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 1: What I do know is that there were a lot 152 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: of legal challenges for the Biden administration. So when that 153 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:38,599 Speaker 1: administration will put a policy in place, there would be 154 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: an injunction and the court would put a halt to it, 155 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 1: and that would leave borrowers in limbo because yes, this 156 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: thing was being proposed, but then it doesn't get enacted. 157 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 4: And so by the time that I took charge of 158 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 4: the Office of Lone Portfolio Management, we had eight million 159 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 4: borrowers that were in a forbearance, not paying their loans 160 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 4: on as part of the Save plan. We had borrowers 161 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 4: who largely hadn't really been paying their loans for the 162 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 4: last five years, and so we're trying to figure out 163 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 4: how to get those folks back into the habit of 164 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 4: paying their loans and for borrowers and defaults. Those folks 165 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 4: hadn't had any collections happening to them over the course 166 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 4: the last five years either, and so there were just 167 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 4: a lot of pieces of the puzzle that were very 168 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 4: much up in the air. Barrowers didn't really know how 169 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 4: to navigate them, and probably still don't. 170 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: Depending on when you entered the portal, like when you 171 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: generated loans, you might not even realize like what used 172 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: to be available, what is available if you generate it 173 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: really early on? How do you know if you can 174 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: get into a plan that might let you pay zero 175 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: dollars now? 176 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 4: I literally had somebody contact me yesterday asking to know 177 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 4: more information about student loans. 178 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 3: Like Sally May, like girl Sally May has not been 179 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:52,719 Speaker 3: around for. 180 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: A whiles, did. 181 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 2: Bad deceased. There's just so much people don't know. 182 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: And I think that the people that have student loans, 183 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: I feel like they be knowing. But then the people 184 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: who don't or they're so far removed, they don't be knowing. 185 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: Like the people with the student knows they be knowing 186 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: that it's complicated, But the people that don't, they just 187 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: think it's They're like, oh, what's the big deal? And 188 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: so I feel like my next question is just about 189 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: the Trump administration and what they're trying to do. So 190 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: we know that they're trying to make things more efficient 191 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: and whatever whatever. Can you talk about the roles and 192 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: functions that are being reduced and removed or deprioritized in 193 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: this shift? And there's also talk about moving DOE to 194 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: another agency. Can you talk about what issues are going 195 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: to arise from that? If that does happen. 196 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 3: Ooh yeah, this is a big question. 197 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 4: One of the reasons that I left was because I 198 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 4: had a group in January that was like two hundred 199 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 4: Dish people, and even just looking at that group, I 200 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 4: had four divisions. One of those divisions was an oversight division, 201 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 4: which basically managed all of the oversight of the different 202 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 4: servicers and other contractors that are involved in the space. 203 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 4: And that was about fifty people, so at a quarter 204 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 4: of my organization. We also had a lot of people, 205 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 4: which is also similarly important because oversight gets tons of 206 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 4: tension right. 207 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: The Trump administration hates oversight, from student loans to clean 208 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: air to consumer protections. The Trump administration has systematically gutted 209 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: oversight agencies, and oversight is how the government holds powerful 210 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: actors like corporate rations, schools, and lenders accountable to us 211 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: the public. But under Trump, the watchdogs were sidelined, regulations 212 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: have been rolled back, and oversight has been weakened across 213 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: the board, which makes it harder for us, the everyday 214 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: people to get justice or relief. 215 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 4: Right, you have lots of news articles being written about 216 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 4: like the gutting of oversight functions and that like CSB 217 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,719 Speaker 4: going away oversay at the department being a subject to 218 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 4: the reduction and force of the riff, which is people 219 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 4: getting fired essentially. 220 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 2: Okay, pause. 221 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: So the CFPB, that's the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, and 222 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: that's a government agency that was created after the two 223 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: thousand and eight financial crisis. Yeah, it will set up 224 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: to protect regular people from getting scammed by shady lenders, 225 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: credit card companies, and even student loan services. They handle complaints, 226 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: they write rules, and hold banks and financial companies accountable 227 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: when they mess up. Yeah, it was a big deal 228 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: when it launched back twenty ten. And I don't know 229 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: if you remember, but Elizabeth Warren was one of the 230 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: main people pushing for it, right, And so of course 231 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: the Trump administration gutted it and leadership pulled back on 232 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:16,359 Speaker 1: enforcement and the rules that protected borrowers, especially student loan borrowers. 233 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 4: But the other prong of this that I think is 234 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 4: really important to understand is that they're all the government 235 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 4: does is oversight. The government basically is overseeing a ton 236 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 4: of contractors that are actually doing the work, coding the technology, 237 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 4: collecting the payments from people, talking on the phone to 238 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 4: people whenever you call a government phone number, and need 239 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 4: to talk to somebody. Ninety percent shot that that is 240 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 4: a contractor, and there are federal employees overseeing those contractors, 241 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 4: which are private businesses. And so, you know, when I 242 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 4: was hard to predict what exactly was going to happen. 243 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 4: By the time we got to people even just being fired, 244 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 4: I had lost a good fifty people in my area 245 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 4: just from people them saying you're not gonna be able to 246 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 4: work remote anymore, either moved to. 247 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,199 Speaker 3: Washington, d C. Or quit. 248 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 4: There were people who you know, were offered the fork 249 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 4: in the road that decided to take that, especially people 250 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 4: who were pretty close to retirement, a lot of the 251 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 4: federal workforce, and so I had lost some of my 252 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 4: best people even before the riffs happened. And when you 253 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 4: lose oversight, that's bad. When you lose operations and oversight, 254 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 4: there's no way for you to function. 255 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: That's wow, because without the folks to do the work 256 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: and the oversight to make sure that they're doing right 257 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: by the American people, a lot of things can fall 258 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: through the crucs. 259 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 4: And it's the onus is going to be on borrowers 260 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 4: and students to figure out when they're not getting the 261 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 4: benefits that are entitled to. 262 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: I think that's a very good point because I've seen 263 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: a little bit of chatter on threads. I've shifted from 264 00:14:55,080 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: mixed to threads folks friends, But people are saying like, oh, well, 265 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: I went to pay, or this site was down, or 266 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: I was having issues getting through. I called didn't get anybody. 267 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: And so for somebody that hasn't interacted with these systems, 268 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: even if their old school only paid with Sally May 269 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: was that girl, or if they're just are really lucky 270 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 1: and don't have any student loans, I think it would 271 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: be helpful for you to explain, like what kind of 272 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: support used to be there that's now disappearing or is 273 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: on the cusp of disappearing. 274 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, and this has an interesting interactivity with what happened 275 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 4: during the COVID payment pause when people weren't being expectatory pay. 276 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 4: So there are this is what we're seeing right now 277 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 4: is not just And I think it's almost convenient in 278 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 4: a way for Democrats to just be able to say, like, 279 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 4: everything failing right now is the fault of the Trump 280 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 4: administration of laying people off and cutting programs, et cetera, 281 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 4: et cetera. 282 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 3: But this has been building over. 283 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 4: A long period of time, and there's negligence kind of 284 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 4: on both sides. And so what you're seeing is, you know, 285 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 4: during COVID, there are a lot of fits and starts 286 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 4: around terenty payment, and people with student loans might notice 287 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 4: that it would be like, get ready, you're gonna have 288 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 4: to pay loans in August, and then it would come 289 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 4: like July thirtieth and be like, just. 290 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 5: Kidding, January January and then like and that happened five 291 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 5: or six times to people over the course of the 292 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 5: four years of the COVID payment pause. 293 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: And what this led to was a lot of instability 294 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: and confusion among borrowers. Right, Folks were leaving college and 295 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: never really getting into the habit of paying their student 296 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: loans or understanding that they had to repay their loans 297 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: or what options that they had. And so now many 298 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: years later, here we are telling these folks that, Okay, 299 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: it's time to start paying and they need help. Right, 300 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: But also don't forget there was a reduction in force 301 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: or a riff, so there aren't as many loan officers 302 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: or people to pick up the phone to answer those questions. 303 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 3: People are in a payment pause. People are in a pause. 304 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 4: You don't need people calling their servicer. People are worried 305 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 4: about it, but that accumulates over time. And so now 306 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 4: what you're saying is there have been cuts to single 307 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,880 Speaker 4: and services over time. The culmination of all of these 308 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 4: cuts in all of these ways that services were trying 309 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 4: to stay afloat over the years, all of this burden 310 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 4: put on the department and on the servicers to take 311 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 4: care of burrowers, and then all of a sudden, you 312 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 4: have millions and millions of people coming into the system 313 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:26,120 Speaker 4: saying I need help, and there aren't the resources there 314 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 4: to support them. 315 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: I think it's been very convenient, like you said, to 316 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: categorize this as belonging to one administration, So this goes 317 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: back multiple administrations. This is even Trump administration before paused 318 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: loan payment. Yeah, and I feel like now they're aggressively 319 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 1: going after those folks, even though we've kind of put 320 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: them in this position. You know, we've talked about a 321 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: little bit in one of our our last semester of 322 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: Dope Labs. We've talked about inflation, and we've talked about 323 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: what's going on with the economy. I just want folks 324 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: who are listening for a second to think about if 325 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: you hadn't been paying a bill, and not even that 326 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: you just hadn't been paying it. You were told zero 327 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: dollars due. Okay, somebody's telling you zero dollars due. And 328 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: then one day somebody calls you, or probably doesn't call you, 329 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: probably sends you some mail because their workforce has been cut, 330 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: and it says, now you got to start paying eight 331 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 1: hundred dollars a month in this economy. Maybe where's the 332 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: cash coming from? 333 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:39,360 Speaker 2: Exactly? It's like eggs a caviar. Yeah, and there's no jobs. 334 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 4: I went to buy some pickles yesterday and they were 335 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 4: five dollars a jar. 336 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 2: No put those that I don't need that. 337 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 3: I'm like, can I live without pickles in my life? 338 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. You become a home sitter. Now you're 339 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: cutting up qucumbers. 340 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 3: Yo, this is what they're trying to do. They're trying 341 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 3: to take us down. That dollary in a farm pipeline. 342 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 3: Don't see me dollars, don't. 343 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: Want it, and I don't care what anybody says. That 344 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: lady's not happy. Let's just be real. 345 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 3: They don't want any of us either. 346 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: We're not the top candidates. Colleen, You've talked about this 347 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 1: before that, you know, and some of the narrative becomes like, oh, 348 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: those kids are irresponsible, and people have student loans they 349 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: want to get four and five degrees. And for people 350 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: who haven't heard you in a previous episode, I think 351 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: it's so important to understand, like who are these borrowers? 352 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 1: These are not folks who are doctor, doctor, masters, public 353 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: policy masters, and also a master's of fine arts. That's 354 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 1: not what the typical borrower looks like. 355 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 3: Shots fired. 356 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 4: Okay, I just called everybody on the call. 357 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: Our history degrees. I'm trying to go right now. I 358 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: want to, I can't afford it. 359 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 4: One of the things that really stands out to me 360 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 4: here is like the good intentions of policymakers in most cases, right, 361 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 4: Like we want to expand access higher education. We want 362 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 4: to create prist differentiations so that if you have the money, 363 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,360 Speaker 4: you pay out of pocket. If you don't have the money, 364 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 4: you get grants or loans to go to school. Initially 365 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 4: it was intended that loans go to middle income people. 366 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 4: Then over time that got expended to lower income people, 367 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 4: and now they've become really the only way that anyone 368 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 4: can afford to go to school, and you end up, 369 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 4: especially in situations where schools that enroll large loancome populations, 370 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 4: like historically black colleges and universities or community colleges to 371 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 4: a lesser extent, but you have students who are getting 372 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 4: a pel grant that this past year was almost seven 373 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 4: thousand dollars per year. There aren't that many schools that 374 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 4: you can get super far. And with seven thousand dollars 375 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 4: in a grant. 376 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 2: We spend in that at the grocery store now. 377 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 4: Wild, And so people have to rely on loans, and 378 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 4: because of the way that loans are structured, they aren't 379 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 4: you know, as much as folks go on about like 380 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 4: how much student debt people have and how out of 381 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 4: control it is, really still people who are undergraduate students 382 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 4: are borrowing. I'm going to say, use the word only 383 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 4: only borrowing about thirty thousand dollars on average when they 384 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 4: leave school for four year degree. That number hasn't really 385 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 4: gone up significantly in. 386 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 3: The last ten fifteen years or so. 387 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 4: And that you know, that amount is not insubstantial, but 388 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 4: it is certainly not what we're talking about like eight 389 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 4: hundred dollars a month. 390 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 2: Right. 391 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 4: What we're seeing is people growing to graduate at school 392 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 4: especially and being able to borrow all the way up 393 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,479 Speaker 4: to the cost of attendance, so not just their two 394 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 4: and not since their forty fifty thousand dollars tuition, but 395 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,400 Speaker 4: also their living expenses and their food and their books 396 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 4: and whatever else they need. And finishing a one under 397 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 4: to your graduate program with one hundred thousand, two hundred 398 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 4: thousand dollars in. 399 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: That this is such a great point. Most people who 400 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: have money are paying the tuition. The loans are mostly 401 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 1: going to low income folks who are trying to get 402 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: a degree to better their lives, but they also need 403 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: the additional set of funds for food or living expenses 404 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: or whatever. The Higher Education Act or HA was passed 405 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty five as a part of President Lyndon B. 406 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: Johnson's push to make college more accessible, and it's basically 407 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: a law that created the entire federal student aid system. Grants, loans, 408 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: work study, all of it. So that's the foundation for 409 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: things like PEIL grants and FAFSA. And every few years 410 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: Congress is supposed to reauthorize the law and that's when 411 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: they update the rules about college affordability, accountability, and student 412 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 1: loan repayment. But like the Congress that we know they are, 413 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: it hasn't been reauthorized since two thousand and eight. That 414 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,120 Speaker 1: is long overdue for an update, and that's part of 415 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 1: why you see a lot of debate around how the 416 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: Department of Education can act on student debt. 417 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 3: Congress has really dropped the ball. 418 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 4: It is unconscionable that we have not reauthorized the Higher 419 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 4: Education Act, which used to happen every. 420 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 3: Five, ten, maybe fifteen years. 421 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 4: We have barely touched it since two thousand and seven, 422 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 4: two thousand and eight, and that is wild considering the 423 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 4: rhetoric that you hear out of Congress about student loans 424 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:33,239 Speaker 4: from both the left and the right, and with the 425 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,439 Speaker 4: crisis that you know so many borrowers will talk about 426 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 4: that they've largely just let the rhetoric speak and have 427 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 4: given up on doing policymaking. And the Republicans have introduced 428 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 4: a lot of massive reforms to higher education. 429 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 3: On April twenty eighth, and as I was listening to 430 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 3: the hearing. 431 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 4: About the markup of this bill, I was just so 432 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 4: disappointed to hear how poor the agenda was from Democrats. 433 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 4: I mean, the first several amendments were I want the 434 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 4: Secretary of Education to certify that this won't raise the 435 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 4: cost of college for low income students. 436 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: Like they can't do that. 437 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 3: What is that gonna do. 438 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 4: I'm just sure that Linda McMahon's gonna be like, let 439 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 4: me sign. 440 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 3: On the Yeah, sure I certify that, sir. Like that 441 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 3: doesn't that's right. I would functionally do anything. 442 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 4: And so I think that the problem that Democrats have 443 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 4: had on this issue especially is they've been in this 444 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 4: like defend, defend, defend posture and not int like what 445 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 4: is going to make the sustainable long term? 446 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: Something I heard recently about the administration now talking about 447 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: people who were borrowing even though payments have been paused. 448 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: Now they're going to say to the people who service 449 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: those loans, if they're not paying, report them to the 450 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: credit bureau, garnish their wages. And I'm like, is that real? 451 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 3: So I want it necessary. 452 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 4: I want everyone to take a deep breath, because most 453 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 4: people listening to this don't have loans in default. 454 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: So okay, that's only for loans in default. 455 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 3: Only for people in default exactly. 456 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,439 Speaker 4: So there are about forty three million people have student loans. 457 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 4: At the beginning of the pandemic, about eight million of 458 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 4: them were in default on their student loans, which means 459 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 4: that they didn't make payments for a year and they 460 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 4: got hit on their credit reports. They might have been 461 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 4: going in the collections process already and then those collections 462 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 4: were paused during the pandemic. The Biden administration had a 463 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 4: policy that was called Fresh Start that basically allowed those 464 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 4: people that were in default to get out of default, 465 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 4: no questions asked. They didn't have to do any pay 466 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 4: that was making any payments. They could just and get 467 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 4: out of default. About three million people to col advantage 468 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 4: of that opportunity. So there are five million borrowers right 469 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 4: now that are in default that had lots and lots 470 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 4: of opportunities to get out of default, that did not 471 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 4: do anything to get out of default. And those folks 472 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 4: have not had collections happened them plus five plus years. 473 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 4: It was five years in March, and so what the 474 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 4: Trump administration is doing is turning collections back on for 475 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 4: those folks. 476 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: Okay, so then what do you say to the people, 477 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: Because I see this all over TikTok. There's always somebody 478 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: who's taking a selfie style video walking down the street 479 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: and they're like, stop paying a student loans, don't pay. 480 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 2: Them back, don't give don't give those people money. 481 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: And I'm like, is this wise with what will you 482 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: just told us they're gonna COMFID that money. 483 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 2: They're gonna get their coming. 484 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 3: They're gonna get their money. They will listen, They're gonna 485 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 3: get their money. Like that is a bad idea. 486 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 4: There was one So when I was still at Federal 487 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 4: Student Aid, there was a. 488 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 3: TikTok video that was going around. 489 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 4: Of somebody being like, if dose accesses your student aid data, 490 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 4: they're violating FURPA. 491 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 3: And if they are violating FURPA, then you can get 492 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 3: your loans forgiven. 493 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 4: So everybody call your student loan servicer or tell them 494 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,120 Speaker 4: that they're in violation of your rights, and then dispute 495 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,640 Speaker 4: your student loans at the credit Reporting Agency. I don't 496 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 4: know who that person was, but I'm just gonna tell 497 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 4: you that I reported that video a spam because that 498 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 4: was complete lized. 499 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 2: It don't work that way, It does not work that way. 500 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 3: It doesn't work that way. 501 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 4: But also, like I guess, like one of the big 502 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 4: things here is that, like I understand that people want 503 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 4: to like are trying. 504 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 3: To make make it, make anything that they can happen. 505 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: Happen, right, Yeah. 506 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 4: However, when that week credit reporting agencies got flooded with 507 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 4: like fifteen thousand student loan disputes, that creates a ton 508 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 4: of work for the credit reporting agencies and for the 509 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 4: student loan servicers. That takes people away from answering calls. 510 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 4: So then your callwait time goes up because they're sitting 511 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 4: there being like, this is not a legitimate dispute, in 512 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 4: part because furba Family Education Rights Privacy Act. 513 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 3: Does not apply to the federal government. 514 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 4: It applies to your school sharing information with other people 515 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 4: about you, not anything related to anything that might happen 516 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 4: in Tosh. 517 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: And the piece that we're leaving out is the emotional 518 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: aspect when we think about folks who are in this 519 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,439 Speaker 1: position with so much debt or even a little bit 520 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: of debt, and thinking about what do I have, how 521 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: do I negotiate that with the reality of my income 522 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: right now, the reality of the increasing cost of living 523 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: like it can also feel very overwhelming to start to 524 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: even begin the process of looking into this, And so 525 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: I think that also plays a role in people's desperation 526 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: to find a way out of these situations. 527 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 4: Absolutely, absolutely, and that's create the chaos, creates opportunity for 528 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 4: folks who are going to scam you. Right The best 529 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 4: thing that if you have a student loan you're like, 530 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 4: I don't know what I'm supposed to do in right now, 531 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 4: go to student a dot gov. Create an account or 532 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 4: log in. That is the place to figure out what 533 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 4: your loan status is. If you don't know who your 534 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 4: loan servicer is, they will it will tell you who 535 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 4: your loan servicer is, will tell your balance, and your 536 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 4: loan servicer is like, can't emphasize this enough. Your loan 537 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 4: servicer is there to help you. I understand the like frustration. 538 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 2: And a lot of distrust right now, but. 539 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 4: Distrust totally that comes with a loan servicer, especially certain 540 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 4: loan services. 541 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 3: You may see in the news all the time, But 542 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 3: at the end of the. 543 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 4: Day, there is anybody else that is able to provide 544 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 4: you with making payments and resources and support aside from 545 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 4: your federal student loan servicer. 546 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: So is student loan for giveness it like is it 547 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: a thing of the past, Like that was just a 548 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: very special time in our history and it will never 549 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: come back. 550 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 4: Broad based student loan forgiveness has gone so like a 551 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 4: massive write off of student loans is there's no world 552 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 4: in which that happens. I think that some of this is, like, 553 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 4: you know, I have always kind of taken the perspective 554 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 4: here of it makes sense to fix college affordability before 555 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 4: you start spending hundreds of billions of dollars forgiving student loans, 556 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 4: because all of a sudden, what you're going to do 557 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 4: is spend I mean, just the Biden proposal, which we 558 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 4: need forgive everybody's student loans would have spent like five. 559 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 3: Hundred billion with a B dollars. 560 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 4: And when you're spending to that level, you are never 561 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 4: spending money on higher education for the next ten, fifteen, 562 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 4: twenty years. It becomes really really really hard, like we 563 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 4: need Unfortunately, a lot of policies have become like everything. 564 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 3: Should be free, we should be forgiving loans. 565 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 4: But like at the end of the day, there is 566 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 4: a budget implication for all of this that is very real, 567 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 4: and we see that starting to play out with some 568 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 4: of the inflation that we're seeing and things like that. 569 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 4: When it becomes the the debt of the country and 570 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 4: financial situation of the country becomes more and more precarious, 571 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 4: you see higher interest rates, higher prices, all of those 572 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 4: types of things. When we look at higher ed and 573 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 4: we look at student loans, I see so many times 574 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 4: us trying to solve economic problems through either higher education 575 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 4: or student debt, and it's like, no, no, no, we 576 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,959 Speaker 4: got to be talking about like wages in the economy 577 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 4: and providing people with affordable healthcare rather than addressing like 578 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 4: this one piece of the problem. 579 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 3: Right, those are in a lot of cases see have 580 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 3: been seen as more difficult problems to solve. 581 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 4: But now as we've pushed the envelope on high red, 582 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 4: we've gotten to a place where it's like, well, now 583 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 4: we can't use any of these like more creative kind 584 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 4: of levers to get people on forgiveness. However, public service 585 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 4: loan forgiveness is absolutely still an option for people. There's 586 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 4: a program called Teacher Loan for Goodness, which is kind 587 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 4: of supplemental to public service on forgiveness that. 588 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 3: Teachers can use. 589 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 4: There's also programs that can help you if you are 590 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 4: have been like defrauded by your school, or if while 591 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 4: you were enrolled your school closed, you know, if somebody saw 592 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 4: your identity like those programs can also you know, potentially 593 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 4: help you and then also, you know, I don't want 594 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 4: to forget the income driven repayment plans, all of those 595 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 4: plans at the end of a long period admittedly twenty 596 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 4: to twenty five years right now, potentially thirty years in 597 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 4: the future of making pinions so. 598 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 3: You can get your loans. Forgiven that is a really 599 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 3: long timeframe. 600 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 4: It feels really untenable to a lot of folks, but 601 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 4: it is at least some light at the end of 602 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 4: the tunnel. 603 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: I think something that's also important to understand is that 604 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: all of these problems didn't come out of nowhere. Even 605 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: if Kamala hit one, we would still be going through 606 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 1: all of this, because this was just snowballing, you. 607 00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 4: Know, right, Yeah, And I will say that, like the 608 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,239 Speaker 4: payment pause ended over a year ago, about a year 609 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 4: and a half ago. But during the first year of 610 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 4: what we called in the government like returnatory payment starting 611 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 4: turning payments back on, the Biden administration opted to not 612 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 4: basically have like negative consequences to folks who are missing payments, 613 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 4: and so things like you didn't make a payment, or 614 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 4: you wouldn't be able to. 615 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 3: Get to a point where it would be reported to 616 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 3: your credit. 617 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 4: Reporting agency that you were a delinquent that it basically 618 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:29,719 Speaker 4: just like we'd roll you back to current and then 619 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 4: like you'd start over. I think that was a beneficial thing, 620 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 4: Like we definitely needed an on REMP for people. The 621 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 4: problem was it wasn't paired with meaningful and appropriate outreach 622 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 4: to folks to say, like, hey, you're getting bills, you 623 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 4: got to pay these bills, right like, because at some 624 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 4: point there will be consequences. And part of the reason 625 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 4: for that was the Biden administration really didn't want to. 626 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 3: Take the heat of why. 627 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 4: Are you hitting my credit, why are you turning payments 628 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 4: back on and blah blah blah blah, And they were 629 00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 4: kind of kicking the can down the road. 630 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 3: And then when I lost the election, it was like, well, 631 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 3: now it's Trump's problem. 632 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 2: Now it's somebody else's problem. 633 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,959 Speaker 4: So like there's definitely some blame to go around here, 634 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,359 Speaker 4: right Biden administration would be doing the exact thing that 635 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,359 Speaker 4: the Trump administration is doing right now, Wow, it would 636 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,400 Speaker 4: be doing the exact same thing. So I think that folks, 637 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 4: like I really want folks to understand that like some 638 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 4: of this is the Biden administration not wanting to kind 639 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,720 Speaker 4: of face the facts. We cannot sustain an unlimited payment 640 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,360 Speaker 4: ponuse on student loans, thrown unlimited pause and consequences on 641 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 4: student loans, and so like, we would be in the 642 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 4: exact same situation if Harris had won. 643 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 1: If you were paying zero dollars and now you're being 644 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,240 Speaker 1: asked to pay eight hundred dollars a month. 645 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 2: What can someone do? 646 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: Is there options for them to not have to pay 647 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: the full amount every month or inn this economy, it 648 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: just feels unfair to just turn these things back on 649 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: on folks when there's all these tariffs and things are 650 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 1: getting more and more expensive, and then you're also saying, oh, 651 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: oh this thing that was free ninety nine, now it's 652 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: actually a huge. 653 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 2: Amount that you have to pay per month. 654 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 3: You know, what folks. 655 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 4: Can do is if they're like getting a bill and 656 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:14,880 Speaker 4: they're like, I cannot possibly manage this. There are a 657 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 4: variety of repayment plans available to people. So there are 658 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 4: the income driven repayment plans that are available to people 659 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 4: that base your payment off of your income. That can 660 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 4: reduce a lot of folks, especially if they have higher debt. 661 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 4: They are monthly payment amounts, but it's also worth looking 662 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 4: at plans like an extended payment plan or graduated repayment plan, 663 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 4: which can either increase your payment term so instead of 664 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 4: paying over ten years, you might pay over fifteen or twenty, 665 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 4: depending on how much debt you have, or a graduated 666 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 4: plan will like start your payments out lower for the 667 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 4: first couple of years and increase them every two years 668 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 4: so that you know, as time goes on you might 669 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 4: owe more, but at least they're more manageable in the 670 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 4: short term. And those are really nice because you don't 671 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,799 Speaker 4: have to like some income information every year and like 672 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 4: deal with your loan servicer and all that. 673 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,439 Speaker 3: You just like enroll and you can stand that plan. 674 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 4: If none of those options are either you know, affordable 675 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 4: or tenable for you, you can get in touch with 676 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,879 Speaker 4: your loan servicer and request what's called an alternative repayment plan, 677 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 4: which is essentially a plan that you are able to 678 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 4: kind of like negotiate with your loan servicer, because at 679 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 4: the end of the day, it behooves your loan servicer 680 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 4: to have you in a current status in paying your 681 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,959 Speaker 4: loans on a monthly basis, even if it's ten bucks 682 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 4: a month, then it is to have you going to 683 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,280 Speaker 4: linkum and defaulting on your loan. 684 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: For sure, I think a question I have just as 685 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: we think about all the things that you've told us, 686 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,359 Speaker 1: it feels a little doom and gloom. But I'm curious 687 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: if there's anything or any movement that you see with 688 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 1: your magical eyes that makes you hopeful or that you 689 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: feel like, Okay, we're headed in the right direction, or 690 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 1: even if it feels doom and gloom right now, like 691 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: this is just a temporary crunch, I think there's something 692 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: on the other side of this, anything like that. 693 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 4: This is a tough tough time obviously, you know, as 694 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 4: a the economy is really tough, Inflation is really rough 695 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 4: on people, prices, there's just there's a whole bunch that 696 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 4: folks have to navigate. I think for folks that are 697 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 4: really struggling, like looking at their situations right now, are 698 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,240 Speaker 4: like I absolutely cannot. 699 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 3: Pay my federal student loans. 700 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 4: There are options available right Like there's also deferments that 701 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 4: people can take advantage of, like economic hardship deferments if 702 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 4: they're unemployed or unploment deferments. There are some kind of 703 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 4: medical deferments that people can use if necessary, for temporary relief. 704 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 4: At least I think that for the for a lot 705 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,799 Speaker 4: of folks. One of the things that we all need 706 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 4: to do right now, and I said this as an 707 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 4: unemployed person, is you've got to look at your budget 708 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 4: and see like where can I make up? Where can 709 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 4: I cut? Like it sucks, but this is where we're at. 710 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 4: And as like a millennial, is how to do that 711 00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,839 Speaker 4: my entire life. It's not cool or fun, but this 712 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 4: is a time to become empowered over yourself and your 713 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 4: finances and like taking care of yourself and your family. 714 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: And your community. 715 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 5: You know. 716 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 4: I think that the other thing here is there is 717 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,800 Speaker 4: appetite for change. And so I mentioned that the House 718 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 4: Republicans had introduced kind of a massive overhaul of higher. 719 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 3: Ed on Monday. 720 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,400 Speaker 4: A lot of parts of that are not great and 721 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 4: even hazard to say, really bad, but there are other 722 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 4: parts of it where I think, like, you know, the 723 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 4: repayment Plan option, I nobody's really done like a deep 724 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 4: analysis of it yet, but I think it might not 725 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,240 Speaker 4: be the worst option, especially for folks who are getting 726 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,799 Speaker 4: buried in interest on their current student loans. There's a 727 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 4: lot of kind of measures in there to address going forward, 728 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 4: how much people can borrow and trying to hold schools 729 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,800 Speaker 4: more accountable to the prices that they're charging for people. 730 00:38:54,520 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 4: And that's really you know where I see once policy 731 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 4: makers start really putting the pedal to the metal and 732 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 4: trying to make heart decisions and standing up to especially 733 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 4: with lobbying groups that have been real like the colleges 734 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,320 Speaker 4: are one of the most powerful lobbies in the country 735 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 4: and have been forever and have had no resistance. If 736 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 4: the Republicans stand up to them, that's actually like a 737 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 4: pretty major win for everybody. And it's going to be 738 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 4: very interesting to see how all that adjusting goes forward 739 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 4: into the future. 740 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 1: Right. 741 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,760 Speaker 4: I think there's always unintended consequences to policies and always 742 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 4: secondary effects that might be challenging. But I do think that, 743 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,320 Speaker 4: you know, it's always important when you see things happening 744 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,879 Speaker 4: to just be like, you know, if Democrats are doing 745 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 4: or Republicans are doing it and you're on one side 746 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 4: or the other, that you're not just like, oh, it 747 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 4: must be terrible because it's these folks, right, Yeah, And 748 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 4: so I do think that, like, you know, there there 749 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:55,320 Speaker 4: is policy making that I think is coming in spite 750 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 4: of the massive layoffs happening that have happened at the department. 751 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 4: There are, uh, there are really really good and smart 752 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:07,960 Speaker 4: and dedicated federal employees that. 753 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,240 Speaker 3: Are still around, and. 754 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 4: You know, there are a lot of folks that are 755 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 4: really committed to make the situation better for everybody. 756 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,319 Speaker 1: This really illuminated a lot for me. I think the 757 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 1: main thing is that this is not a Trump administration 758 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 1: faux pas. This is something that has gone back many 759 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: administrations and we're just now feeling the repercussions from you know, 760 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 1: the sins of president's past, you know what I mean, 761 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 1: and legislators as well. I feel like you got to 762 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 1: take it back to Game of Thrones when they walk 763 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 1: Thircee down that path and be like, shame on all 764 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 1: of you for not renewing this stuff, you know, and 765 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 1: for letting it get this bad. 766 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:53,879 Speaker 2: I know. 767 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,759 Speaker 1: And it's just like a lot of these politicians, I 768 00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 1: feel like they're so out of touch with the people 769 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,400 Speaker 1: that they are supposed to be serving, and because of 770 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 1: that disconnect, they are focused on all the wrong things. 771 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,360 Speaker 1: People are like, hey, hey, hey, I need help, and 772 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:15,480 Speaker 1: they're like, hmm, let's cut the funding for the Parks Department. 773 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: I'm like, first of all, what did them folks do 774 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,840 Speaker 1: to you as yet bigger fish to fry y'aller what 775 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: is going on? 776 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 2: And it's like we're all just tired. 777 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: Everybody on the left and the right people are feeling 778 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 1: the effects of all of this bad legislation, and it 779 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,280 Speaker 1: feels like this is only the beginning. So we're gonna 780 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 1: be keeping an eye out and updating all of you 781 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:40,880 Speaker 1: to make sure that you are up to date and 782 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: up to speed on the legislation that's coming out. And 783 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: if you want to go back and hear Colleen's previous episode, 784 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 1: that's Lab seven Show Me the Money, and that was 785 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,360 Speaker 1: great also, so just to see where we came from 786 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:53,840 Speaker 1: and how hopeful we were. 787 00:41:54,360 --> 00:42:04,839 Speaker 2: Hope, we were so hopeful, so stupid. You can find 788 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 2: us on X and Instagram at Dope Labs. 789 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,719 Speaker 1: Podcast, tt is on X and Instagram at d R 790 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 1: Underscore t Shoe. 791 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 2: And you can find Takiya at Z said so. 792 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,680 Speaker 1: Dope Labs is a production of Lamanada Media. Our senior 793 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 1: supervising producer is Kristin Lapour and our associate producer is 794 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:28,280 Speaker 1: Issara Savez. Dope Labs is sound design edited and mixed 795 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:32,400 Speaker 1: by James Farber, Lamanada Media's Vice president of Partnerships and 796 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 1: production is Jackie Danziger. Executive producer from iHeart Podcast is 797 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:42,239 Speaker 1: Katrina Norvil. Marketing lead is Alison Kanter. Original music composed 798 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 1: and produced by Taka Yatsuzawa and Alex sudi Ura, with 799 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:51,280 Speaker 1: additional music by Elijah Harvey. Dope Lab is executive produced 800 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,520 Speaker 1: by US T T Show, Dia and Kia Wattley.