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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to cool people didical stuff, your weekly

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Speaker 1: dose of rabble rousers, revolutionaries, radicals, and alliteration. I couldn't

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Speaker 1: come up with a word for alliteration and start with our,

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Speaker 1: and then I thought about rewriting the entire thing to

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Speaker 1: be as instead. I'm your host, Margaret Kildre, and this

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Speaker 1: week I've got with me a rabble rouser herself, Francesco Fiorentini. Yes, alliteration, bitches. Francesco,

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Speaker 1: I didn't even think of that. Do you have a

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Speaker 1: middle name? Do you want it? I don't, yeah, but

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Speaker 1: it kind of like kind of ruins the rest. It's Kate,

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Speaker 1: so it's kind of a oh yeah, Francesca Kate Fiorentini.

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Speaker 1: But you know what else, Yeah, you can work on it.

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Speaker 1: I should Fate room. Oh god, so really middle name Fate?

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Speaker 1: Huh yeah, yeah it is what it is. My life's

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Speaker 1: great fate, all right. And if you're like, don't do

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Speaker 1: anything amazing with your life, you're just fucked. Yeah. This

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Speaker 1: is definitely me talking to the person at the bar

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Speaker 1: next to me at like three couple shots deep. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: How are you doing today? I'm all right, I'm chilling.

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Speaker 1: We got you know, my my, my six month old

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Speaker 1: baby is up hanging with her grandma, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we've got precious little time between now and when she

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Speaker 1: freaks the f out. So I'm just happy to be here.

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Speaker 1: And you know, because history shan't stop and cool people

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Speaker 1: who did cool things must be remembered. Yeah, and many

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Speaker 1: of the cool people were talking about today had children,

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Speaker 1: thank god. Yeah. A lot of people I don't know

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Speaker 1: whatever anyway, it seems are the abortionist because I'm also

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Speaker 1: down with that too. Yeah, no, I mean yeah, oh,

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Speaker 1: actually I don't want to ask some of these people

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Speaker 1: there anyway. Okay, So our producer is Sophie. How are

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Speaker 1: you doing, Sophie. I'm good. I'm excited. Francesca's here. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Our audio engineer is Ian. Everyone say Hi, Ian, Hi

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Speaker 1: Hi Ian, and our I didn't say yet high En.

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Speaker 1: Our theme music was written for us by a woman.

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Speaker 1: So today we're going to talk about what might be

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Speaker 1: the single most impactful moment of non violent resistance in

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Speaker 1: US history. Yes, for decades, no one knew who did it.

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Speaker 1: None of them were ever caught, which rules right now

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Speaker 1: in the news. As I was writing on working on

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Speaker 1: the script, You've got the government trying to get us

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Speaker 1: scare that China is spying on us through TikTok, and

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Speaker 1: I honestly don't worry about that because I know who

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Speaker 1: is spying on me as likely as not, and I

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Speaker 1: know who has a proven track record of spying on

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Speaker 1: dissidents and activists and kind of anyone. They want. The FBI,

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Speaker 1: the federal information. Yeah, they're kind of a big deal.

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Speaker 1: They're not so secret. They've sort of fallen off lately though,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're going yes step, it's so weird. They're

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Speaker 1: like targeting white people for the first time, which is

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Speaker 1: I don't know, like it's actually I feel like the

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Speaker 1: FBI has gone woke, you know what I'm saying, but

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Speaker 1: really switching it up anyway. Yes, I've heard of those mfers. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The reason that we know about the spy and they

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Speaker 1: did was because of eight pacifists who broke into an

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Speaker 1: FBI office in nineteen seventy one and ransacked the place

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Speaker 1: and never got caught. Forty years later, about ten years ago,

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Speaker 1: now they came forward. So now we get to know

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Speaker 1: who did it, and it rules, and so I'm going

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Speaker 1: to tell you their story. Wait, wait what Okay, yeah

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Speaker 1: yeah wait what wait sorry this happened? Yeah yeah, the

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Speaker 1: way that cohent tel Oh, I'll get to it. I'll

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Speaker 1: get to it. Okay, okay, sorry, no, no beginning, the setting,

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Speaker 1: the stage. No no, no, no no no no no no no, no, twas,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. This is your job. No no no, You're

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Speaker 1: doing a good job of doing my job for me.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna ask, have you ever heard of the FBI?

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Speaker 1: But we've covered you have and I'm sure that they've

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Speaker 1: heard of you. Indeed, the precursor to the FBI. I

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Speaker 1: love doing the DNNN. I can't do the I can't

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Speaker 1: sing it as well as you, but I love the context.

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Speaker 1: That's like a big thing for me. So we're going

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Speaker 1: to go way back to nineteen o eight to start

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Speaker 1: this episode that takes place mostly in nineteen seventy one.

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Speaker 1: The precursor of the FBI is called the BOA, the

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Speaker 1: Bureau Investigation. It was launched in nineteen oh eight, and

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Speaker 1: it had had two purposes, mostly around international policing. You

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Speaker 1: want to get I'm just curious, what do you think

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Speaker 1: the two biggest hot topic issues that the precursor of

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Speaker 1: the FBI wants to do In nineteen oh eight. Oh god,

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Speaker 1: they definitely want Okay, so obviously former slave like formerly

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Speaker 1: enslaved people are on a rad's I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: like formerly enslaved people in Mexicans. It's actually that's interested

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Speaker 1: or maybe just like Irish. Where are we? I don't know, yeah, no, no, no.

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Speaker 1: There's so many things that the FBI. I kind of

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Speaker 1: set you up for failure here, and I'm sorry for that.

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Speaker 1: There's two things that the FBI cared about. One of

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Speaker 1: them was quote unquote white slavery. It only gets quotes

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Speaker 1: because I mean, slavery is bad, but they suddenly care

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Speaker 1: because it's about white people, right, And any other thing

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Speaker 1: is anarchists. The FBI got its start because a disgruntled

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Speaker 1: anarchist named Leon Shogosh killed President McKinley in nineteen oh

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Speaker 1: one over how McKinley's policies were affecting working class and

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Speaker 1: the US presidents were suddenly very concerned with this particular

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Speaker 1: threat because it, you know, could shoot them. So they

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Speaker 1: wanted a better system by which to monitor and repress

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Speaker 1: the movement, and so they needed more international policing. And

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Speaker 1: Roosevelt was really really concerned about this, and so he

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Speaker 1: made the Bureau of Investigation in nineteen oh eight, and

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Speaker 1: then so anarchists did that. So yeah, ironic that, like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the anarchists and I used to call myself one.

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Speaker 1: I can't really call myself one anymore, can I? But

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Speaker 1: you know, ultimately I don't believe in states and borders

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Speaker 1: and police and all that. But like it's kind of

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Speaker 1: thank you. Yeah, they'll they will. Ha. It's ironic that

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Speaker 1: we created what we might hate most Yeah, to ourselves

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Speaker 1: were well, they did it to us. But whenever it

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Speaker 1: be true, it's yeah, no, and it's true. And it

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Speaker 1: wasn't even a very popular thing. When when show Gosh

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Speaker 1: killed McKinley, a lot of people are like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: a little too far. Yeah, I mean it wasn't guiotine.

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Speaker 1: We didn't think anyone's going to use it. I mean

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Speaker 1: that's sort of like where we are now. We're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I have guillotine earrings and I think they're super cute

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Speaker 1: and I'll like wear them out, but like, are we

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Speaker 1: doing this because I don't know if we should do this? Um,

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Speaker 1: yeah exactly. Yeah. So that's that's uh, that's oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: I actually originally pitched the show. I think as um

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Speaker 1: when it not this show. But when I first was

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Speaker 1: starting to talk about doing a history podcast, I was like,

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Speaker 1: they literally invent at international policing to stop anarchists. Why

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Speaker 1: is our history book? Why our history books boring? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they shouldn't be. And and there's not this we'll get into.

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Speaker 1: This is not a specifically anarchist episode or whatever. But

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Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty four, this a young asshole named John

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Speaker 1: Edgar Hoover stepped in as director of the Boy and

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Speaker 1: then it became the do OI in nineteen thirty four,

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Speaker 1: and then the DUI No, I'm just kin, and then

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Speaker 1: it became the FBI in nineteen thirty five. Hoover stayed

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Speaker 1: in charge. He stayed in charge for a really long time.

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Speaker 1: He stayed in charge until his death in nineteen seventy two.

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Speaker 1: He was in charge for forty eight years of basically

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Speaker 1: the FBI, and that makes him, too date, the longest

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Speaker 1: serving appointed public official in US history. He's not a

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Speaker 1: really good person. I don't know if you knew this. No,

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Speaker 1: he's yeah, yeah, he's crap on a cob. Yeah. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: maybe you could do Francesca. There's no podcast that exists

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Speaker 1: solely just explore the lives, motivations, and horrendous acts of

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Speaker 1: bad people. Just never heard of one. No, it's only

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Speaker 1: this podcast about cool people. Yeah, that's a really good idea. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that Sophie all about bad like bastard. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: you could call it like like under the bastard, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like hide behind bastards. It's it's all about people hide

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Speaker 1: behind bastards as well. I don't know, it sounds terrible.

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Speaker 1: Let's not do that. No one would listen to it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: sounds like a bummer, Like, No, sounds like it sounds

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Speaker 1: like if somebody worked on that for like I don't know,

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Speaker 1: say five years or so, that they'd have crippling my dual. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: why would you do that to anyone? It's like that's

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Speaker 1: like working in a coal mine, really bad coal mine

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Speaker 1: of podcast. Yeah. So I'm not going to go into

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Speaker 1: Hoover incredibly detailed, but I'm gonna tell you a little

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Speaker 1: bit about him. He was an anti communist zealot. He

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Speaker 1: absolutely believed that the rule of law did not apply

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Speaker 1: to him, nor that the rule of law should be

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Speaker 1: applied evenly or democratically in general. Honestly, he was as

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Speaker 1: fundamentally anti democratic as he was anti communist. He was

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Speaker 1: also in this parse MESSI he was almost certainly either

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Speaker 1: gay or bisexual who participated incredibly willingly in the Lavender Scare,

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Speaker 1: which we did an episode recently on Stonewall that talks

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Speaker 1: a little bit more about this. But basically, the US

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Speaker 1: government during the Red Scare like purged all of the

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Speaker 1: gay people from their ranks, except of course the leader

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Speaker 1: of the FBI. Wow, the projection decades later, right, it's

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Speaker 1: still going strong. Yeah, he rolled the Bureau as a

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Speaker 1: complete autocrat. His bosses in Congress were terrified of him.

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Speaker 1: He got one of them to resign at one point

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Speaker 1: because they were like in conflict. When he was supposed

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Speaker 1: to get put out. There was a mandatory retirement age.

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Speaker 1: It might still be I'm not sure in the United

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Speaker 1: States government where he turned seventy or you have to

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Speaker 1: mandatorily retire. It's still definitely still not around, Margaret, Like

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Speaker 1: Diane Feinstein is one hundred and thirteen. Dianne Feinstein died

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Speaker 1: three years ago. Yeah, dude, Dianne exactly, absolutely well. I mean,

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Speaker 1: but now they have really good animatronics, like like biden

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Speaker 1: Um is totally not dead anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 1: He died and then they brought him back, and then

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Speaker 1: that's just because of the Catholic thing. Yeah, well, don't say,

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Speaker 1: don't talk about my man Joe like that. Okay, we

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Speaker 1: all saw him jog out. You remember when he jogged.

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Speaker 1: I was so stunned and he did a great jog. Um.

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Speaker 1: Then lad you know, he fell off his bike and

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Speaker 1: he heard himself playing with a dog. We don't talk

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Speaker 1: about it. Remember that job. I mean, you know, I

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Speaker 1: hope I can jog when I'm a skeleton as well,

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Speaker 1: like just bone on bone. Never see Trump jog. Don't

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Speaker 1: want to see Trump jobs. No, I don't want. But

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Speaker 1: they had the AI photos of him running from the cops. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you immediately know it's AI because you're like, Trump's not

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Speaker 1: running right right. I was like, if you're going to

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Speaker 1: tease us, make a realistic I know, I know a

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Speaker 1: man can't drag. What a disappointing week this has been anyway,

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Speaker 1: So Hoover, he turned seventy and he's like, he makes

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Speaker 1: the president. I think it's Nixon at this point sign

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Speaker 1: an executive order specifically exempting him from mandatory retirement. That's

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Speaker 1: the kind of power he has, he fired agents and

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Speaker 1: shifted them around on the strangest whims, Like at one point,

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Speaker 1: this fed had just gotten in a like shootout and

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Speaker 1: to stop a plane jacker, and then Nixon not Nixon, sorry,

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Speaker 1: Hoover took a photo, like saw a photo of the

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Speaker 1: shootout and circled the guy's beer belly and was like,

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Speaker 1: what's this And so the guy got like demoded and

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Speaker 1: sent off to a different part of the country. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's so fucked. Yeah, no, I know. And um I

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Speaker 1: listened to like a podcast about like somebody who worked

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Speaker 1: with him who was like pro FBI, just like talking

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Speaker 1: about working with him. And that's how I actually that

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Speaker 1: being said, I do kind of want to do that

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Speaker 1: to cops now, Like I think that cops now should

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Speaker 1: actually be able to run after they're so called suspects

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Speaker 1: suspects and we don't know, we should be taking photos

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Speaker 1: of them and circling their bellies and be like you're

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Speaker 1: out you because you're more likely to be a you know,

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Speaker 1: a little fancy with the with the trigger there. But

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Speaker 1: see I'm I'm I'm excited about out running the Oh okay,

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Speaker 1: he see what you're saying about? How then said they

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Speaker 1: shoot you all right, Well, okay, okay, yeah. So the

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Speaker 1: one good thing I found about Hoover is that he

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Speaker 1: opposed the interment of Japanese folks during World War Two.

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Speaker 1: He pushed back against Roosevelt against it. Bizarre, bizarre, weird.

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Speaker 1: I know, no, no, I know. I was he considered

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Speaker 1: an infringement of civil liberties? Um? I guess it was. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's still did it. The FBI still did the arresting,

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Speaker 1: but he did at least make some kind of like

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Speaker 1: token gesture, perhaps more than token gesture, to try and

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Speaker 1: not have it not happen. He's incredibly secretive. No one,

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Speaker 1: not even Congress to the President, is allowed to see

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Speaker 1: his files. This is going to come up as real important.

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Speaker 1: I guess I already spoiled that people steal his files

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Speaker 1: at one point in judicial order, and I think nineteen

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Speaker 1: forty nine, a few of the less important files get

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Speaker 1: shared to Congress. But I didn't fall too deep down

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Speaker 1: that particularly rabbit hole because it didn't make anything important happen.

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Speaker 1: And he spied on fucking everybody. But spying was not

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Speaker 1: enough for this man. They started something called co intel pro,

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Speaker 1: the counterintelligence program, and this whole thing. It's incredibly illegal,

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Speaker 1: autocrats don't care. And it's a series of disruptions primarily

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Speaker 1: primarily aimed at leftists, particularly the black black civil rights movement,

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Speaker 1: but also every other civil rights movement and also like

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Speaker 1: ostensibly aimed primarily at the Communist Party. It was also

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Speaker 1: used to disrupt the KKK early on. And before you

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Speaker 1: get too excited about that, another thing co intel Pro

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Speaker 1: did about five years after they quote unquote disrupted the

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Speaker 1: KKK is finance an arm a paramilitary right wing group

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one, basically like a Proud Boys thing

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Speaker 1: and send them to go fuck with leftist So that's

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Speaker 1: something that co intel Pro did is basically created Well

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Speaker 1: will they stop doing I mean, like I made a

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Speaker 1: joke in the early when you started talking about this

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Speaker 1: about like targeting white people, But they are, and they're

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Speaker 1: doing it the exact same way that they targeted Muslims

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Speaker 1: after nine to eleven, which is infiltrating and setting up

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Speaker 1: all these sting operations and basically entrapping them. The differences

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Speaker 1: is that when the white folks have, like the folks

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Speaker 1: who you know, had plans to capture Gretchen Whitmer, like

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Speaker 1: when they get um, you know, defended in court, like

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Speaker 1: the jury actually exonerates them or you know, lets them

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Speaker 1: off with less time, Whereas if you're a Muslim or Brown,

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Speaker 1: it's like that's you know, that's a wash, that's you

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Speaker 1: know whatever. Conver many years. But it's just like these

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Speaker 1: fox never learn, Like, here's the thing. If you're gonna

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Speaker 1: be such a conniving spyy piece of shit, at least

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Speaker 1: get real lead, get good stuff. You know, like you know,

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Speaker 1: you're just create You're just creating the monsters yourself. You're sting,

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Speaker 1: You're just sting operationing your way into it, and you're

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Speaker 1: making everything more worse and making everything like basically creating

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Speaker 1: extremists and homegrown terorius. No totally, and I I sometimes

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Speaker 1: struggle to figure out exactly what their motivation is besides like, well,

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Speaker 1: this is what I do for a living. Is I

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Speaker 1: create terror plots that weren't going to happen anyway, have

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Speaker 1: them almost happen, and then catch the people doing the

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Speaker 1: thing that was my idea in the first place. Yes,

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Speaker 1: this this is forever the equivalent in the podcast world,

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Speaker 1: and this is kind of my idea. So like, don't

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Speaker 1: steal it if you want to steal this idea, but

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Speaker 1: like what, it's basically like a true crime podcast doing

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Speaker 1: the murders and then solving that, then being like, oh see,

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Speaker 1: you gotta get me another season because I'm so good

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Speaker 1: at solving these murders, or like you who did the murder? Anyway,

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Speaker 1: hit me up if you guys want to like do

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Speaker 1: murders for a true crime podcast. I did tell you

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Speaker 1: the FBI listens, right, yes, oh god damn it. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: don't worry, we will totally edit that out. Yes, thank you,

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Speaker 1: I trust you. Yeah, yeah, I'm trustworthy. So Francesca, cointelpro, Neaton,

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Speaker 1: co Intel Lean, don't even try. Okay, I'm sorry, all right,

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Speaker 1: so co Intel Pro. They did all kinds of shit

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Speaker 1: besides fabricate terror plots, although they were doing that as well.

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Speaker 1: If you ever think of a fun prank to play

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Speaker 1: on your ideological enemy, now imagine that that prank is

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Speaker 1: financed by the government and you have total impunity. They

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Speaker 1: would do shit like write fake letters from one Black

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Speaker 1: Panther leader to another talking shit and stirring up in fighting,

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Speaker 1: which got a bunch of people killed by their own side.

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Speaker 1: They would spread rumors about infiltrators and they would do

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Speaker 1: what we currently would call fed jacket, which is where

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Speaker 1: you spread rumors if someone as a FED. They would

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Speaker 1: here's a fun one, you ever want to have fun

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Speaker 1: time at a party. They would fucking inject laxatives into

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Speaker 1: oranges at anti war meetings. So random, so petty, so

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Speaker 1: but like, but now I can trace that a bout

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Speaker 1: of diarrhea in two thousand and three. Yeah, yeah, exactly

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Speaker 1: to that fucking orange that was in the back of

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Speaker 1: the room next to the the pretzels that I definitely ate.

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Speaker 1: And no, I but no, no, but but legit, like

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Speaker 1: I've been in a lot of these meetings. I do

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Speaker 1: have an FBI file, And I'm like, are you kidding me?

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Speaker 1: An orange? Yeah? No, they that doesn't disrupt a movement.

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Speaker 1: It just makes people sad. They don't care, they're just

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Speaker 1: doing whatever they want. They would this one makes me

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Speaker 1: really sad. They would hire sex workers for a lot

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Speaker 1: of their crimes. They would intentionally spread STIs in the

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Speaker 1: anti war movement, and like specifically hire people because of

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Speaker 1: their STI status, not just be like we hope that

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Speaker 1: these people have SDI sortever, and they would also set

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Speaker 1: people up for blackmail by using sex workers on a

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Speaker 1: regular basis. What they did to Martin Luther King was

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Speaker 1: really fun, and by fun, I mean kind of awful.

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Speaker 1: They sent him a package. I knew that they sent

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Speaker 1: him a letter telling him to kill himself. What I

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Speaker 1: didn't realize is that they sent him a package with

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Speaker 1: an audio recording of him of like sexual blackmail against him,

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Speaker 1: and that said they would release it to the public

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Speaker 1: if he didn't kill himself rather than accept the Nobel

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Speaker 1: Peace Prize. Fuck, it's completely possible. It's generally understood that

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Speaker 1: they got Malcolm X killed by sewing the division that

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Speaker 1: led to his assassination. Yes, wait, what was the sex

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Speaker 1: stuff on MLK Junior? Because was that? Like? Was it

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Speaker 1: like hot? I didn't look too deep into it because

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Speaker 1: I was like, I was going back and forth. I

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Speaker 1: was like wait really like you're like wait, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: do I want to even say? Is it made up?

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Speaker 1: Like now, I'm not actually quite sure because it was

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Speaker 1: stuff theoretically from having tapped his you know, because they

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Speaker 1: were recording him constantly and stuff, And um, I guess

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Speaker 1: they could do a thing where they could much like

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Speaker 1: now where they could listen to your phone even if

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Speaker 1: you're not on the phone. Sure, the COTE would also

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Speaker 1: send provocteurs to meetings to be like, hell, yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: go throw bricks at cops. But they would also send

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Speaker 1: provoct tours to meetings to be like anybody throws wants

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Speaker 1: to throw bricks at cops as a fed because it's

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Speaker 1: not that they like specifically were like, escalating is the

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Speaker 1: only way that we can like disrupt, because it's also

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Speaker 1: disruptive to complain about escalation, Like you just kind of

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Speaker 1: can't win, right, because their main thing was to get

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Speaker 1: people worried about infiltration. So then anything that someone does,

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Speaker 1: I even like worry as I say, this kind of

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Speaker 1: tell this kind of thing, you know, because it's it's

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Speaker 1: all to stirrup paranoia. Oh It's worked very well. I

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Speaker 1: mean I've seen I've seen it in action. So I

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Speaker 1: mean again back in the we've talked about this on

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Speaker 1: my podcast, Yeah about you know, the early anti war

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Speaker 1: or the anti war movement and also the global justice movement.

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Speaker 1: Just how much when things get heated when you're like

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Speaker 1: doing really well, it's like then there's the FBI or

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Speaker 1: like someone who's acting extra shady and weird about like

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Speaker 1: being paranoid about there being FBI, and then then there's

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Speaker 1: also just sectarian weird, you know, trotskyist, And you're like,

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Speaker 1: are you you could also be an ad? I know

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Speaker 1: you're like, no one really believes that, right, right right? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but do you know what we do believe in? Here

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Speaker 1: at cool people did cool stuff. We believe in. Having

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Speaker 1: learned that Reagan coins are one of the ads on

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Speaker 1: the AM, I allowed to complain about specific ads people

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Speaker 1: who are getting we get. Yeah, that's the important thing

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Speaker 1: to know about the ads that are coming. It's not

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Speaker 1: all of them, but that doesn't stop people for messaging

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Speaker 1: me about it. Yeah. So if you have a problem

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Speaker 1: with one of the ads that you're about to listen to,

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Speaker 1: you go out and I learned this from a You

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Speaker 1: got into the backyard and you dig a hole and

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Speaker 1: you whisper into the hole all of your problems and

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Speaker 1: then you close the hole up. And if that doesn't work,

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Speaker 1: you can tweet at I write okay on Twitter? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: That's how to reach me on my personal line. And

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Speaker 1: here's some ads, and we're back. We're talking about Cotel Bro.

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Speaker 1: I've just invested ten thousand dollars in Reagan coins, so

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Speaker 1: um fuck crypto Reagan. Yeah, you know this is going

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Speaker 1: to be worth a lot when when all this collapses, Margaret,

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Speaker 1: when it all comes crumbling down because you were busy talking.

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Speaker 1: Here's here's the thing. This is a bit, but you

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Speaker 1: might not be wrong. Can you imagine? You know what

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Speaker 1: it was so hard? Is like in the like the

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Speaker 1: future apocalypse or you know, in that our dystopian future.

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Speaker 1: If like the one shit, you should have invested in

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Speaker 1: the one like the Horde whatever. The group with food

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Speaker 1: is like, how many Reagan coins do you got? Yeah,

387
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Speaker 1: you're like, well I have better health and then people

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Speaker 1: really should have bought them when it was advertised to me.

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Speaker 1: I heart cool people. Yeah, fucked up. So even before

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Speaker 1: Reagan was on coins, co intel pro the other thing

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Speaker 1: that they did that I didn't know as much about

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Speaker 1: because it's less my era era of activism. They fucked

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Speaker 1: with every election they could and like like all the

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Speaker 1: ship that the CIA does internationally, the FBI is doing

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Speaker 1: locally whatever, the most outlandish ship you could say. That

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Speaker 1: sounds like a conspiracy theory. We now have proof the

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Speaker 1: FBI did thanks to today's heroes. That's why we have

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Speaker 1: the proof Oh, so we're gonna start. I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about the cat Left, which are sort of the

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Speaker 1: main heroes of today's things Left. Yeah, they're really interesting.

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Speaker 1: But for someone talk about Vietnam and with how fucked

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Speaker 1: up the world is in the sixties late sixties, that

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Speaker 1: people in Vietnam and the US are regularly setting themselves

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Speaker 1: on fire. And before we talk about the Catholic left

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Speaker 1: doing lots of cool stuff, we all need to understand,

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Speaker 1: of course, that there are good people and bad people

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Speaker 1: doing good things and bad things in the name of

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Speaker 1: every religion and ideology. Sure, well, okay, there's some ideologies.

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Speaker 1: No one's doing anything good in the name of But

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Speaker 1: the first self immolation that we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: was done in response to some bad shit the Catholics

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Speaker 1: were doing. There's this guy, his name is no Dindiem

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Speaker 1: and he is the president of South Vietnam from nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty five to nineteen sixty three. He's a Catholic, which

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Speaker 1: is a minority religion, and he sucked. He treated the Buddhists,

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Speaker 1: who are seventy to ninety percent of the population like shit.

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Speaker 1: And this guy was appointed by the US government, which

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Speaker 1: will probably not surprise anyone. Catholics are getting all kinds

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Speaker 1: of benefits. The Catholic Church is the largest landowner, and

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Speaker 1: they're immune to land reforms under his you know, ragin him.

421
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: He's a president. It's not really a rain, but whatever,

422
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: well maybe it is in this context. Buddhists gets denied jobs.

423
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: The Buddhist flag was banned. Protesting Buddhists getting murdered in

424
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: the streets, and there was an order that dissenters should

425
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: get thrown into concentration camps. Monks prain in public had

426
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 1: chemical weapons poured onto their head and not like pepper

427
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: spray and stuff, which is like not also not a

428
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 1: nice chemical weapon, but like putting people in the hospitals.

429
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: There's bad enough. This guy's really bad. Like, if there

430
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: was a podcast that focused on bad people, they could

431
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: include this guy, but there isn't. So in nineteen sixty three,

432
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: June eleventh, a monk named thick one Duck. He was like,

433
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: you know what, fuck this shit, and he set himself

434
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: on fire and he sat calmly as he burned in

435
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 1: front of hundreds of spectators on a public street. Yeah,

436
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 1: someone filmed this and it's heartbreaking to watch and I'm

437
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: not usually a like watch people die on film type

438
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 1: person that's not my my thing. Funny interesting, Yeah, but

439
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: this one, honestly, like it's moving and it's like worth

440
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: understanding from history. I think if if that's a headspace

441
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: that you want to be in and think about, I'm

442
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 1: not going to share it now. On the no, I've

443
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 1: seen it. I've seen it as part of like you know,

444
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: just when you start to you know, learn about Empire

445
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 1: and you know, start trying to stop a different American war,

446
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: You're like, well, let's go back and see what happened.

447
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: I mean he's completely still. Yeah, he's meditating as he dies. Yeah. Yeah,

448
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: he stays in lotus position. He at one point he

449
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: falls over and tries to push himself back up, but

450
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: he just after he died, the cops tried to take

451
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: his remains, but thousands of angry protesters took him back

452
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: and then they recre cremated him for a proper funeral.

453
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: This part I looked up a couple of different times.

454
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 1: His heart didn't burn in the second cremation, but it's

455
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: solidified in the fire and today is a sacred relic. Wow.

456
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: I have no explanation for this. That's beautiful, I know,

457
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: and that's I'm I mean, if you don't have chills,

458
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 1: you are not human. You're a hoover, You're a vacuum

459
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: cleaner in England exactly. That's right. Other monks in Vietnam

460
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: followed his example, and then by the end of that year,

461
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: the CIA led a coup to topple the Catholic guy.

462
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: Which isn't the US being good because they propped him

463
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 1: up in the first place, and thick sacrifice is often

464
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 1: credited as what brought down that regime. Two years later,

465
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: the First Americans set herself on fire and protested the

466
00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 1: Vietnam War. And I'm I feel like I need I

467
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: don't normally disclaim, hey, don't do this at home, but like,

468
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: this was an incredibly meaningful and moving set of sacrifices

469
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 1: that people made to try and stop something. But it

470
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,479
Speaker 1: has had incredibly diminishing returns and is not a good idea.

471
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 1: And I am not in any way. It's funny. I never, like,

472
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: I very rarely advocate well for anything, but I try

473
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: not to be like, do this or don't do this

474
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: or whatever. But I specifically I don't want to diminish

475
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: what these people did at the same time. But so

476
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: we have such a fucking immovable, awful, you know, oppressive

477
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: like both economic, political, and like system of empire in

478
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 1: this country. I'm thinking two people I could come to

479
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: mind who killed themselves and I actually don't know their names,

480
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 1: but one at when Bush was reelected in two thousand

481
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 1: and four, I remember someone who shot themselves outside of

482
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: the World Trade Center Ground zero, and I was like,

483
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 1: I feel you, and yet I don't know if that's

484
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: gonna make a mark. I don't know what was going

485
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: on in their personal lives. And the other person, I

486
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: was someone who shot themselves and killed themselves. He was

487
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: a you know, um a taxi driver. He was a

488
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 1: black car driver for many, many, many many years and

489
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: could not get out of debt. And Uber and Lyft

490
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,679
Speaker 1: have like crushed the entire industry. And it's like, I

491
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: just don't you know, It's like it's a desperate it's

492
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: both out of desperation and also trying to, you know,

493
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 1: have make a political statement. And you're just like, man,

494
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: I fucking wish that we were on the precipice of

495
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 1: a real revolution in this country, so we could take

496
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: these deaths and they wouldn't be in vain. Yeah, totally anyway, Sorry,

497
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: more killing death, but yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll get some

498
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: good burglar doing. Okay, good, good, good, But first it's

499
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: a little bit more death, okay. Alice Hers was a

500
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: German Jew. She's American by the time this happened. She's

501
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: eighty two years old when this happens, and she's seen

502
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: some shit. She fought for feminism in the nineteen tents Germany.

503
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: She'd helped bring about the Weimar Republic. She fled from

504
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 1: Germany to France to avoid the Nazis, only to end

505
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: up in a camp when the Nazis invaded France. She survived.

506
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: She made it to the US. She lived in Detroit,

507
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: she became a Unitarian. And then one day I think

508
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: this is nineteen sixty five. For some weird reason, I

509
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: cut the date out of the script. I don't know why.

510
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: She wrote a letter about how fucked up the war was.

511
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: She went out on the street and she set herself

512
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: on fire. And she wasn't the last in South Vietnam.

513
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: In the US, alike, Buddhists and Quakers and Catholics set

514
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: themselves on fire. When a sixteen year old Catholic named

515
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: Ronald Brazzie set himself on fire. In October nineteen sixty seven,

516
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: a Catholic worker named Father Daniel Berrigan wrote a poem

517
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: called in the Land of Burning Children, and I'm gonna

518
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: read that poem. He was still living. A month later

519
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,479
Speaker 1: I was able to gain access to him. I smelled

520
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: the odor of burning flesh, and I understood anew what

521
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: I had seen in North Vietnam. I had felt that

522
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: my senses had been and invaded in a new way.

523
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: I now understand the power of death in the modern world.

524
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: I knew I must speak an act against death because

525
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: this boy's death was being multiplied a thousandfold. And so

526
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: I feel like that's the important backdrop that helped create

527
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: the Catholic left. The people I'm gonna be talking about

528
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: mostly yeah, hell yeah, did um shout out to the

529
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: whole Berrigan family. I know that, Oh yeah, oh yeah,

530
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: and and love them. Yeah, there's some of the main

531
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: characters we're gonna be talking about, So please interject with stuff. Yeah,

532
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: well why why? I think I knew this at one

533
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: point in my life, but maybe the fact that I've

534
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: forgotten that this even happened. Oh, they didn't do the

535
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: break in oh god, damn. Okay, okay, okay, yes they

536
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: did other break INDs, but not yeah no, but yes, yeah,

537
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: so that how far along? Was a Catholic worker movement

538
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: at that point or had it? Was it just beginning?

539
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: So it's actually so he wrote that a little bit

540
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: before the Okay, the Catholic worker movement started in the

541
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: nineteen thirties with the anarchist Dorothy Day. Oh yea yeah, yeah, yes, yes,

542
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: thank you. The Catholic Left as a movement seems to

543
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: come about also in nineteen sixty seven, and we're going

544
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: to talk about where that comes from, I think nineteen

545
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: sixty eight and more kicks in properly. Father Daniel Berrigan

546
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: wrote that poem his brother, his father Phil Brigan, who's

547
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: usually credited as starting the movement that gets called a

548
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: bunch of different things, usually the Catholic Left. It gets

549
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: called like the books written by the people who are

550
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: in it call it ultra resistance, which is a hard

551
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: to google term. You love a movement name where you

552
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: just can't google it anymore because ultra resistance doesn't bring

553
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: you up anything useful to talk about. Phil. The Beragans

554
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: were a working class unionist Catholic family from German and

555
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: Irish backgrounds. Before he was a priest, Phil was a

556
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: semi pro baseball player and a soldier in World War Two,

557
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: and he didn't like what he saw in the army.

558
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,719
Speaker 1: He was white and the segregation of the armed forces

559
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: made him really fucking unhappy. So when he got out,

560
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: he came back and he became a priest in Baltimore,

561
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: and he specifically, I think the reason he went to

562
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,719
Speaker 1: Baltimore not entirely certain. He became a Josephite, who are

563
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: an order of priests who worked in the black communities

564
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: and had recently become really radical and cool. They kind

565
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: of started off, I think, as being like, we're some

566
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: good white Catholics who are going to teach black people

567
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: about the Catholic God. But by the sixties, when everyone's

568
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: getting really interesting, they organized a convention of black Catholic

569
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: clergy put together a statement calling the Catholic Church a

570
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: white racist institution. Because cool shit was in the fucking air.

571
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: Oh hell yeah. And so that's what Phil is going

572
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: to go do. He goes and joins that movement, he

573
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: gets into it. He's marching everywhere, he's sitting in everywhere.

574
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: He goes to prison a lot. He seems to like

575
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: going to prison a lot. He's always doing it. He

576
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: spends a total of about eleven years of his life

577
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: in prison over the just you know, less than some people,

578
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: but certainly a lot if you keep doing it on purpose.

579
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: It's the nineteen sixties. He's at a sorry, it's in

580
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: the sixties. He's at a conference in Chicago, and someone

581
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: is like, man, we should really fuck up a draft

582
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: board or something. Oh yeah, and the idea gets into

583
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: his head. The idea that gets into his head is

584
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: we should go fuck up draft boards or something. He

585
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: might not accursed much. I don't know, I never I

586
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: never met him. Died about ten years ago. I think

587
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: he might not occurse much, so he might have phrased

588
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: it differently in his head. But that's the basic idea.

589
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: So in October twenty seventh, nineteen sixty seven, him and

590
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: three others it doesn't yet include his brother Daniel, they

591
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: walk into a draft office in downtown Baltimore and they

592
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: pour blood on all the draft records. Yes, Catholics love

593
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: pouring bloods. This is the one thing I'm like, you know,

594
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: I know some folks in the Plowshares Movement, like not personally,

595
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: but I know of them, and it's like speaking of

596
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: sort of like you know, doing these huge acts, then

597
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: you know we'll get you in major trouble. Like Plowshares movement,

598
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: people like pour the blood on nuclear warheads and you're

599
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: like and then they get like thirty years and I'm like, yeah, girl,

600
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: I respect the game, but also like we might have

601
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: needed you on the outside. Um. That being said, Phil

602
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: is a totally different you know story, this is a

603
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: different thing. But back to the blood, I'm like, it's

604
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: it's also you're kind of like they're Catholic and you're like,

605
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure this is your blood? Yeah? Probably, Yeah,

606
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: I mean it would be polite to take someone else's blood. Well,

607
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 1: is it like on some like oh this is the

608
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: blood of Christ Catholic thing where they just just great, Yeah,

609
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:41,720
Speaker 1: this is too much too buck chuck all over stop

610
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: by the Trader Joe's and that hit off to the

611
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: draft office. Absolutely. If I had a bottle of two

612
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: buck chuck and I wanted to fuck up draft office,

613
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,439
Speaker 1: I would drink the two buck chuck and then I'd

614
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,720
Speaker 1: have the courage to do whatever I want. Yes, Um.

615
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: The other thing that the Catholics love at this point,

616
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: besides pouring blood on thing things, is sitting down and

617
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: waiting to get arrested, part of their signature move Later

618
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: they learned that napalm is more effective than blood and

619
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: try not to get arrested is a way to get

620
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: more done. And I'm proud of them for making that development.

621
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: Although then the Plowshares movement goes back to the old school. Yeah,

622
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: we talk more for anyone who's listening. In the Food

623
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: Not Bombs episode, we talk more about the Plowshares movement,

624
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: and you want to hear more about the Catholics, including

625
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 1: the Barrigaans actually pouring blood on stuff, like the Catholic

626
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: lady poured her blood in the White House. And the

627
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: other signature thing about the Catholic left is that it's

628
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: not all Catholics, and it's just really interesting to me.

629
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 1: A lot of them are, but this group, the Baltimore Four,

630
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: it's got our Catholic priest, a United Church of Christ,

631
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: Protestant pastor, and a sort of I don't know, I

632
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: was raised Episcopal, but I'm kind of in a Sufism,

633
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: Buddhism and the Catholic workers. Guy didn't get the four religion.

634
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: Yeah I love that though, Yeah, no, totally. Two of

635
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 1: them got six years in prison, one got two, and

636
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: one of them who had passed out Bibles instead of

637
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: pouring blood, got probation and mandatory therapy. Barrigan got six years,

638
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: but don't worry. While he was out on bail, he

639
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: managed to do even more crime. Nice. The Baltimore action

640
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 1: was the first in nineteen In May nineteen sixty eight,

641
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: this is what's called the founding of the Catholic left movement.

642
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,919
Speaker 1: I think nine Catholics. It's all Catholics this time, and

643
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: they get their shit together to burn a bunch of

644
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,439
Speaker 1: draft records. First they go to this breaking bad style

645
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: high school science teacher and are like, make us some napalm.

646
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: And I'm really excited. I feel like that's what Walter

647
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 1: White should have done instead of make math is make

648
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: an a palm in protest war. Yes, seriously, selfish bastard,

649
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: I know, right, and you know you could still run anyway. Um.

650
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: They walked into the draft board in Catonsville, Maryland, which

651
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: is just outside of Baltimore, and they took all the

652
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 1: draft files out into the parking lot, and they burned

653
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: them with their homemade napalm. And while they waited for

654
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 1: the police to arrest them for the action, they talked

655
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: to journalists at the time. Daniel Berrigan, the poet from

656
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 1: earlier Phil's brother. This time he's with his brother. He

657
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 1: says this to the press, our apologies, good friends, for

658
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 1: the fracture of good order, the burning of paper instead

659
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: of children, the angrying of the orderlies in the front

660
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: parlor of this Charnel house. We could not so help us,

661
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 1: God do otherwise, such a poet. Once again, if you

662
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: don't have them, you're dead inside you. And you got

663
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: to remember, you know, this is at a time when

664
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: people were coming home in body bags every single day,

665
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: all right, every single week, that the death toll was insane,

666
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 1: especially I mean for American soldiers, but you know, obviously

667
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: on the Vietnam Vietnamese side as well. Yeah, so like

668
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: they were saving lives, they did not want on not

669
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 1: even one more draft card called up, not even one

670
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: more family getting that phone call, not even one more

671
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 1: of their you know, family, friends, neighbors, relatives to be

672
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: sent off to die. So this is a straight up

673
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 1: heroic act. And six years insane for what for fucking

674
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: property destruction? Shut up, it's Blood's good, it's good. Too

675
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: much chuck. Oh this time it was napalm. But oh right,

676
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: this they did it safely outside. Yeah. I love that detail.

677
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,439
Speaker 1: And why do you think they use napalm? Yeah, because

678
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 1: they're napalming children and everyone in Vietnam. Yeah, Like it's

679
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: so it was purely symbolic, like all we could use

680
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 1: just straight fire, yeah, but no, yeah, no. They people

681
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 1: did some really fucking brave stuff in the sixties and seventies,

682
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: like like stuff that I'm just like really impressed by.

683
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: I don't know how to y like tight pants, men

684
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: in tight pants, brave boy like as a brave look

685
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 1: for you. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of a lot of

686
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: the white people in some of these parts of the

687
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: story were like they took off their dashiki and then

688
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: they put on normal clothes or whatever. Okay, Like you know,

689
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 1: I don't know how you know, brace relationship that I love,

690
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 1: like back in the sixties and seventies, like and still

691
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: a little bit today. Like I have some old activist

692
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,760
Speaker 1: heads who are like, you know, white guys into highis

693
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 1: and it's like, you know what that's when that's when

694
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 1: you got politicized, and you honestly can't actually rock that

695
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: because it was straight given to you by like a

696
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: freedom fighter in South Africa, you know, totally like someone

697
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: who's about to go on you, Like you let a

698
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,800
Speaker 1: guy from the Black Liberation Army stay at your house

699
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: and hide it hit his oozy like yeah, yeah, yeah,

700
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 1: you can wear that. Cannot wear a can take cloth. Yeah.

701
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: So Daniel Berrigan, the poet, he he takes he makes

702
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: a play out of the trial transcript which, because he's

703
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 1: a literal name or guy here is the Trial of

704
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: the Caytonsville nine is the name of the poem, play

705
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:12,919
Speaker 1: and the whole thing. It works in two ways. First

706
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,760
Speaker 1: of all destroys a bunch of draft records. Second, the action,

707
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: the trial and the play all drew attention to the

708
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: Catholic left's radical non violent direct action and brought in

709
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: a ton more activists. And I want to learn more

710
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 1: eventually about the dialogue between the non violent activists like

711
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: begin and then the Weather Underground and the other more

712
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,800
Speaker 1: guerrilla types who are a little bit more non violent,

713
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: but they were on essentially Comrade Lee terms. As far

714
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: as I can tell, the bar Regan brothers. They went

715
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: underground briefly after Caytonsville and evaded capture. Basically, I think

716
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 1: like after their arrest, they were out on bail or something.

717
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: I'm not entirely certain, and Daniel wrote a letter to

718
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: the Weather Underground and and it was right around the

719
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: time the Weather Underground kind of will cover them one day.

720
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: But they had a kind of a turning point where

721
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 1: they were getting more and more radical, and then they

722
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: were thinking about targeting humans instead of property. And then

723
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: they like blew themselves up. Yeah, not those humans I

724
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 1: was from. Yeah, And so then they were like, wait,

725
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 1: never mind, we'd actually don't want to target people. We're

726
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: gonna keep targeting property. And so it's like around this

727
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 1: time he writes them and he's like, look, we're all

728
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: on the same side, but maybe you don't start killing people,

729
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 1: all right, And a nun in New Jersey hid Phil

730
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 1: Berrigan for a while. Later they would both get excommunicated

731
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: by the church in order to get married. Um, and

732
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:29,919
Speaker 1: I think that's really sweet. And then they like get

733
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: un excommunicated and I think go back to their you know,

734
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: priest and nun rolls or whatever. But they took a

735
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 1: nice little break, you know, be romantic. This is yeah,

736
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 1: this is his wife? Right yeah? Yeah? Um I had

737
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: her name in the script. And then callister, okay, great,

738
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: thank you. This is Is it Phil's or Daniels Phil's wife? Yeah,

739
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: Elizabeth McAllister, Freda Bergan's mom. Shout out to Frieda. If

740
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: you listen to this show. She's an awesome, amazing activist

741
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: and does a bunch of like anti arms trade, you know,

742
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 1: writing and work and stuff. Anyway, and if you're listening

743
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 1: and I got your parents' story slightly wrong, I am

744
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: genuinely sorry. She will come on this show school you

745
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:20,760
Speaker 1: with all of her Yes, but no, I so okay.

746
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: First of all, hot meat, cute, right a nun hides you,

747
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 1: right you? Then you like fall in love and are

748
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: excommunicated from the church because you guys want to go

749
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 1: like steal away and Elope and have like mad revolutionary love,

750
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,240
Speaker 1: make love whatever. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, that's great.

751
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: I love that. I know It's so good. And if

752
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 1: you want to fall in love, if you have enough

753
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 1: Reagan coins, everyone's gonna fucking love you. Everyone's gonna be

754
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: like damn with Reagan. Can't just buy regular gold it's

755
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: got to have Ronald Reagan's head on it, otherwise it

756
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: doesn't work. So you should buy at and then whatever

757
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:06,919
Speaker 1: else we're selling. I just want one like cliff Bar.

758
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: I just just give me a I don't have any

759
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 1: Reagan coins. Just give me a cliff Bar. Okay, like

760
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 1: there's packs of wild dogs. It's the year twenty fifty six. Please, no, no,

761
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 1: that'll be seven Reagan coins for a cliff bar. Eight

762
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 1: if you want to chocolate chip cliff bar. Okay, sorry, no,

763
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: that's actually a good pointing. It doesn't make me think

764
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: that cliff bars might be the better in fat. It's

765
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: almost like food is more useful than golden No, that

766
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,359
Speaker 1: can't be right, otherwise you'd be advertising food. Stop. Yeah, yeah,

767
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:44,919
Speaker 1: that's insane. Yeah, here's some ads and we are back

768
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: and the bargains as well as some other people. They

769
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: got caught by the FBI. I think I think they

770
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: got caught at this point. Maybe they turn themselves in

771
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 1: and they got sentenced to three years in prison. And

772
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: after Cayton'sville, the Catholic left which is kicking off, they

773
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: take up a new tack. Instead of these public raids,

774
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: which they also do, they take up burglary. Instead of

775
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: storming the draft boards in the day, they start breaking

776
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 1: in at night and stealing it all and trying not

777
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 1: to get caught. Personally, I'm I'm very pro not getting

778
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: caught on purpose as a general rule. There's another quote

779
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: from one of these activists at this time, Abby Hoffman,

780
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: and he has a rule that's something like the first rule.

781
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: The revolutionaries don't get caught nice and burglarized places they did.

782
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: The Catholic left more than five hundred burglars rated dozens

783
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: of draft boards, removing thousands of records, and very few

784
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 1: of them were ever caught. Just fucking rules. Just five

785
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 1: hundred people mobilizing to be like, let's just all break

786
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 1: into all the draft boards on the catch us all. Yeah,

787
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: they did it a bunch of really clever ways. One

788
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: crew replaced a padlock on an office in Philadelphia with

789
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: their own lock. I think that they just like the

790
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 1: office was like open during the day, so they went

791
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 1: and left their own padlock like open, so that when

792
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: they closed at night, they just was the pad locking. Smart. Yeah.

793
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,399
Speaker 1: And then in Delaware, some burglars use the single best

794
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 1: method ever devised. During the day, someone went to the

795
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,240
Speaker 1: door and taped a note to it. The note said, quote,

796
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: please don't lock this door tonight, army. Come on. It's

797
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 1: even better. Some dutiful rule follower didn't lock the door

798
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 1: that night, so they stole all the draft cards out

799
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,399
Speaker 1: of the building. I love that. I feel like, where

800
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: could that work these days? And do you feel like

801
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 1: most public offices if you went in there and we're like, hey,

802
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 1: like taped a note if they don't see you doing it, Like,

803
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: it's the same thing as if you put on a

804
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: yellow vest like a if you put on a construction

805
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 1: vest and have a clipboard, people will let you go anywhere.

806
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: You got a hard hat you can get into like

807
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 1: any gala. Yeah, and it's the same kind of concept.

808
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,240
Speaker 1: No one wants to question authority, you know, Yeah, totally.

809
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: And so yeah, they actually apparently those burglars spent a

810
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: while trying to consider whether they should leave a thank

811
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: you note like the next day. That's great. They decided

812
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,879
Speaker 1: against it because you know, discretion better part of valor

813
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 1: all that. And these burglars, a lot of them are nuns,

814
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 1: priests ex nuns, x priests, lay people, non Catholic people too,

815
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:22,720
Speaker 1: especially Quakers. Yeah, baby Quakers. Are back. They've been skipping

816
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: the spotlight on the show for way too long. And

817
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: then also secular Jews who never get very far away

818
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 1: from the spotlight on the show, because I don't know

819
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: if I've done a show without a secular Jew at

820
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: some point showing up been doing amazing shit. And I

821
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 1: like to imagine all these like priests and nuns and

822
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 1: collars and habits and shit picking locks and stealing shit.

823
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, yeah, I like they're I don't know, Yeah,

824
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think what they could be doing. I mean,

825
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: they're already kind of dressed for it. It's a little

826
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,399
Speaker 1: bit like The Years was wrong, is it my mind?

827
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 1: When you think about like robbers who are like, you know, nuns,

828
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 1: you just think of what's the movie and we're real

829
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: where like people are dressed as nuns in order to

830
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: rob banks, and you're like, oh, that's stolen valor for

831
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: like other yeah, robbers like who robbed for moral reasons

832
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: like that. Actually, the woman who um Helen Woodson was

833
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 1: the person who I was saying poor blood in the

834
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: White House. One of the other things she did after

835
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 1: she got out of Joe for some other thing is

836
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:24,919
Speaker 1: she robbed a bank and then burned all the money

837
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: in the middle of the lobby while reading a statement

838
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 1: about how capitalism is like a crime against human I

839
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: think again, like, yes, girl, good state, but like you

840
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: redirect the money. Yeah, yeah, totally totally we're being I

841
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 1: love how we're so like utilitarian now because she is

842
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: so much worse. We're just like, no, no no, no, get

843
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 1: the money, use it to fund the revolution. We like,

844
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 1: no one can pay rent. Yeah yeah, exactly, buy a

845
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,919
Speaker 1: building and turn it into a housing cooperative place. Yes.

846
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: So the war divided the hell out of the Catholic

847
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,879
Speaker 1: Church itself because you're like, Okay, where's this Catholic left

848
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,919
Speaker 1: coming from, Like where's the theological whatever. You know, We've

849
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 1: talked a bit about here and there about the Catholic

850
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,320
Speaker 1: churches relates to Vietnam, because you can hear about Vietnamese

851
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: Catholics in our episode on pre war Vietnamese resistance to colonialism,

852
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 1: and you can hear about some of the fights within

853
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: New York Cities Catholics on the episode we did about

854
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 1: up against the Wall, motherfuckers, And the deal was at

855
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: the Vatican, the ostensible center of power for the church

856
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: at this point, was anti war. They started working to

857
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 1: condemn anti Semitism, pushing for interfaith fights against the war,

858
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: and basically they were like, hey, American Catholics, this show.

859
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 1: If you're pacifist, Jesus told us to be like nice

860
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: to each other and stuff. Pope Paul the sixth, he

861
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 1: was straight up the first pope to ever visit the US.

862
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 1: If you ever want to hear more about how the

863
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 1: US hated Catholics back in the day, listened to our

864
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 1: episode about people who fought the clan from last of all,

865
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,399
Speaker 1: I had no idea he was the first to visit

866
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: I know that part I I double checked. I like

867
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: read it in one of the books, and I was like, Nah,

868
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 1: that can't be right. And I like asked the internet,

869
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: who was the first pope to visit the US? That's crazy?

870
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: Six I mean that's why, Like, looking back, you're like,

871
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:12,240
Speaker 1: who the fuck cares that? Like Kennedy and Joe Biden

872
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 1: are Catholic? Right answer? Some fucking people do? Yeah, no

873
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: it Yeah. It completely surprised me as an adult when

874
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,760
Speaker 1: I found out that a lot of Protestants don't consider

875
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 1: Catholics to be Christian, right, And yeah, so the Pope

876
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 1: shows up. He shows up in nineteen sixty five, you

877
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: give speeches against US involvement in Vietnam in front of

878
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 1: huge crowds. Good for you. But the high ups in

879
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 1: the US Church were entirely hawkish, they were entirely pro war.

880
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 1: They were like stomped the communist rah rah rah. And

881
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 1: they actually transferred Daniel Berrigan into South America for a while,

882
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: basically exiling him. Which is one of the problems with

883
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: being embedded into a hierarchy is that people can exile

884
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 1: U Pike. Oh no, I have to go spend time

885
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:03,839
Speaker 1: in South America. No, yeah, Well they didn't tell his family. Yeah,

886
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,839
Speaker 1: don't say no, of course. Yeah. He's like, no, oh no,

887
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 1: you're not telling my family. They'll never be able to

888
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: find me. Looks like I have to start a new

889
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: family with this hot ladioy here. All right. Yeah, I'm

890
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 1: sure it was very different. That's exactly what it is,

891
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: right when you get disappeared by the FBI. Well, in

892
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: this case, it was the UM. It was the church

893
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 1: that disappears. Sorry, yes, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, right, which

894
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 1: is its own Yeah that thing. Yeah, the Catholic left

895
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 1: rises up against the war. They take a lot of

896
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,240
Speaker 1: inspiration from the Catholic workers we talked about briefly, especially

897
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: the anarchist Catholic Dorothy Day. Oh. I'm sure we'll get

898
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: our own episode one day. It's a little bit funky

899
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: that they're called the Catholic Left because most of what

900
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 1: they got up to was really consciously inter faith. But

901
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 1: I want to talk more about draft resistance because it

902
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: was so fucking much of it. Yes, people started burning

903
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: their draft cards. Um, as far as I can tell all,

904
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,280
Speaker 1: the first organized group of this, I'm not entirely certain,

905
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 1: was SNICK, the Student Non Violent Coordinating Committee, which at

906
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 1: this point I believe was primarily or entirely black. I

907
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:11,280
Speaker 1: can't remember exactly when SNICK became a black letter organization,

908
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: but if you listen to our episode with the Arms

909
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:17,839
Speaker 1: Civil Rights movement, you'll know they pushed young black men

910
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 1: to burn their draft cards in the South where they're organizing.

911
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: Other groups started doing the same. So then the government

912
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: was like shit, so they outlawed burning your draft cards.

913
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: It was punishable by up to five years. So the

914
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: first person to burn it after this it was outlawed.

915
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: It was a Catholic worker. His name is David Miller.

916
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:36,800
Speaker 1: He went to the recruiting center and he burned his

917
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: draft card in protest of the war. He actually he

918
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: didn't smoke because he had matches, but they kept getting

919
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 1: blown out by the wind. But there's like this nice

920
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: story where like another guy from another movement comes up

921
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 1: and is like, here, brother, I got you and like

922
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:54,919
Speaker 1: lights has a lighter. Yeah night, yeah exactly, sorry sort

923
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 1: of that not really but yeah, it's very like yeah, no,

924
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 1: that's anyway. I don't know why it's a beat poem,

925
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 1: but yeah, I get it. Very sixties. Yeah, just like

926
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 1: just takes his massive spliff and like him yeah, yeah, yeah,

927
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:15,359
Speaker 1: I like that. Yeah, and that's how the war was ended. Yeah,

928
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 1: this is a very Schoolhouse Rocks where a man let

929
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:22,320
Speaker 1: me help you burn that draft car. Now I'm imagining

930
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:26,799
Speaker 1: the schoolhouse Rock Yeah, cartoons. Yeah, and he gets sense

931
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 1: to three years in prison for this. But the thing is,

932
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 1: if someone's like a god deal for you, you could

933
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 1: either go die in an unjust war halfway across the

934
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: world or spend three years in prison. I'll take prison, sure,

935
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 1: And most didn't see prison. More than half a million

936
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: people were registered as draft offenders for various methods of

937
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: evasion and This is on top of one hundred and

938
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 1: seventy thousand registered conscientious objectors. More than that people tried

939
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 1: to register as conscientist jectors, but like weren't believed we'll

940
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 1: get to Muhammad Ali in a moment. Upwards of one

941
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 1: hundred thousand people fled the country, especially to Canada. About

942
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 1: two hundred thousand people were formally charged with these draft offenses.

943
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: Nine thousand of those were convicted, and only three thousand,

944
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty people were jailed. Three thousand, two

945
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 1: hundred fifty people is a lot of people, but out

946
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: of a half a million, I will take those odds. Yeah,

947
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 1: the US was pretty stretched thin. You know, they were

948
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 1: trying to win an unwinnable war, so you know they're

949
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 1: not going to be chasing every single draft dodger. Yeah,

950
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 1: but I there is who wrote there's some really fucking

951
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: beautiful short story about someone who travels to you know,

952
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say this, but who a draft dodger

953
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: who escapes to Canada. And it's like, you know, not

954
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:49,479
Speaker 1: looking back on the States and not knowing if you'll

955
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 1: ever go back. Yeah, And it's funny because like I

956
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 1: was talking to my friend about this WHI I was researching,

957
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 1: and we were talking about how like because right now

958
00:53:57,719 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: we have all these like pro war politicians who used

959
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 1: to draft dodge, and that for them, it's this shitty

960
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 1: hypocrisy that they draft dodged, right, But for someone who's

961
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 1: actually not trying to send other people to go die

962
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 1: in dumb wars, draft dodging is actually a really brave

963
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 1: thing that people did that materially impacted the war because like, yeah,

964
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: half a million people or more refused service. That has

965
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 1: a major military effect, and so these people were taking

966
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 1: incredible risks, risking never seen their family again in order

967
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,320
Speaker 1: to stop this war and not die for some bullshit.

968
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, And you were physically fit, you know what

969
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: I'm saying. So you're like, oh, I could have fought,

970
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:38,799
Speaker 1: but I didn't. I did the moral thing. That's like

971
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: the that's the hottest thing. I don't know why I'm

972
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 1: taught framing and but that's very hot. You know, like, oh,

973
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 1: my dad knows a doctor to fake the note about

974
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: me having what was trump bone spurs. Yeah, they were like, well,

975
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: you know, whatever the fuck the you know, rich disease,

976
00:54:55,760 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 1: he's got influenza. You can't fight your war. Yeah, affluenza, luenza,

977
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:05,400
Speaker 1: excuse me. Yeah. Active duty soldiers were actively they hated

978
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: the fucking war too. No reasonable person is excited about

979
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 1: being taking part of something that killed three million Vietnamese people,

980
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 1: roughly twelve or so percent of the country's population. More

981
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,760
Speaker 1: than half a million troops deserted over a five year period,

982
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 1: which is just an incredible number. In nineteen seventy two,

983
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 1: entire units refused to go into battle. In nineteen sixty eight,

984
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: soldiers refused to go do riot control at the Democratic

985
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 1: National Convention in Chicago because they agreed with the protesters

986
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 1: that they would be going and fighting against. And the

987
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,479
Speaker 1: coolest maybe just the most impactful, but I think they're

988
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:42,360
Speaker 1: also the coolest draft dodger. Draft resistor was Muhammad Ali,

989
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: the heavyweight boxing champion of the world who shows up

990
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 1: twice in this episode. Somehow he filed for CONSCIENTI conscientious

991
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 1: objectors status. It was denied. I suspect it was denied

992
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: because he was Muslim and they just didn't care or something,

993
00:55:57,560 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 1: But I'm not entirely certain other people who are listening

994
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 1: the answer to this. He was convicted for refusing to serve.

995
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:07,719
Speaker 1: He told the press quote, why should they ask me

996
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: to put on a uniform and go ten ten thousand

997
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 1: miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on brown

998
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:15,319
Speaker 1: people in Vietnam, wells called Negro people in Louisville or

999
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: treated like dogs. No, I'm not going ten thousand miles

1000
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 1: from home to help murder and burn another poor nation

1001
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:23,360
Speaker 1: simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of

1002
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 1: the darker people the world over. This is the day

1003
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:29,800
Speaker 1: when such evils must come to an end. He fucking rules.

1004
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 1: That is not the quote that I remember, of course,

1005
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 1: because you only you only remember like no Vietnamese or

1006
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: no Vietcong ever called me the end word. Yeah, for

1007
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 1: some reason, I didn't pick that one. Yeah, yeah, no, no,

1008
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 1: But that one's even bender like the one that you

1009
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 1: just got. Like, that's so like the lucidity, he's so

1010
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 1: clear headed. I mean, obviously he's incredible in so many ways,

1011
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 1: and he was a leader in and of himself, but

1012
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 1: like it just shows you how much, you know, mainstream

1013
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:02,399
Speaker 1: culture was being permeated by anti war sentiment that that

1014
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 1: was not even that extreme of something to say, totally totally,

1015
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 1: and I mean he became an icon for the anti

1016
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: war movement. He was one of the most popular people

1017
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 1: in the world at the time that he did all

1018
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 1: of this incredible. His conviction stripped him of the heavyweight

1019
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 1: boxing title even though he was undefeated, and while he

1020
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 1: didn't wind up in prison, he was suspended from the sport,

1021
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: which is of course his like livelihood and shit, he'll

1022
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: come back into the story when we come back. This

1023
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: is not me skipping. We're not done for the day,

1024
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: but he'll come back on Wednesday. Sixty different we Won't

1025
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 1: Go chapters sprung up around the country to help organize

1026
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 1: draft dodgers. More than a thousand men publicly returned to

1027
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: their draft cards. And the cool thing that they did

1028
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 1: so these people were like, I'm not going fuck you,

1029
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 1: and they returned their draft cards and they had each

1030
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: of them had hundreds of other people signed complicity statements,

1031
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 1: which is basically like, yeah, we know this guy broke

1032
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 1: this law, so if you come for him, you have

1033
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 1: to come for me too, because I'm an accomplice. M

1034
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: People started flying outside of draft centers. People offered logistical

1035
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:10,240
Speaker 1: support to prisoners refusing to serve. They drove soldiers to Canada.

1036
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 1: People are fucking cool. People can do cool things. We

1037
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: need to do this, but for abortion rights, that's all

1038
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: I have to say. I don't know why. Yeah, I

1039
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 1: don't know what we burn necessarily, but in terms of

1040
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 1: just being outside of medical facility, in terms of being

1041
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 1: a model for incredibly what it was was an incredibly

1042
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 1: popular opinion it should not be sending more people to

1043
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 1: die in this war. Yeah, and like in the most

1044
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 1: grassroots way possible mass movement. Yeah, and using these recruiting

1045
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 1: centers you could use, you know, I'm just like now

1046
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 1: implotting the next you know, next, you know, our next uprising.

1047
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 1: I mean, damn it, but we should be. And there

1048
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 1: are people who drive people across borders into places of course,

1049
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 1: which is illegal often for people to do or I

1050
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: actually don't remember the current state of all these laws,

1051
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 1: but like, you know, people are are risking a lot

1052
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 1: to get people to where they need to get access

1053
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 1: to medical care. And then now there's like more information

1054
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 1: about how like people are working on getting a bortificant

1055
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 1: drugs mailed into states where that's currently legal but about

1056
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 1: to be illegal, and people are like, well, we'll keep

1057
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 1: doing it after it's illegal, and yeah, we need to

1058
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 1: be ready to do that kind of shit. So resistance.

1059
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 1: The war is just ramping up. You have the Malay

1060
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 1: massacre in March nineteen sixty eight, which shocks the world.

1061
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 1: American soldiers murdered the ship out of five hundred four

1062
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 1: un armed villagers in the country they were ostensibly liberating

1063
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 1: at home. Governor Reagan said in nineteen seventy quote, if

1064
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 1: it takes a speaking of this is Governor Regan. He's

1065
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,919
Speaker 1: not yet on the coins. It's not worth anything then yeah.

1066
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 1: Quote if it takes a blood bath to silence these demonstrators,

1067
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 1: let's get it over with. And that's why we hate

1068
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 1: the Reagan coins. There we go. Nothing is funny anymore.

1069
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 1: That guy forever burn in Hell Yeah, Punk's not dead.

1070
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 1: Reagan is. The US was now bombing and invading Cambodia,

1071
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 1: dropping more bombs on that one country than they dropped

1072
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 1: in the entirety of anywhere in World War Two. This

1073
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 1: invasion weakened the country and led pretty directly of the

1074
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 1: take over the country by the Khmer rouge that killed

1075
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:20,320
Speaker 1: one point seven million people. As a result of Nixon

1076
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 1: being like fuck yellis fuck up, Cambodia, protests intensified. The

1077
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 1: National Guard murdered four protesters at Kent State University in Ohio,

1078
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:30,400
Speaker 1: Hoover because he has to come back into this, the

1079
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 1: head of the FBI, today's main villain. He called one

1080
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 1: of the dead women a slut. Only ten days later,

1081
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 1: police killed two students at Jackson's State, a black campus

1082
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 1: in Jackson, Mississippi. They killed the first student by shooting

1083
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 1: up a dormitory, literally just fucking laying into it. Four

1084
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty rounds of ammunition were fired into the building.

1085
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 1: They blew out every single window. There was zero evidence

1086
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:54,959
Speaker 1: that any of the students were armed. This is because

1087
01:00:54,960 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: there had been some protests on campus. Insane, yeah, insane, Yeah,

1088
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 1: And of course it was a black campus, of course,

1089
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 1: you're absolutely but like insane to think that we did that,

1090
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 1: And that was, i know, a hugely galvanizing moment that

1091
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 1: you'll go into. But like and those photos I mean

1092
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 1: speaking of like, um, you know one of the most

1093
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 1: iconic photos from this era. You know, you have yes

1094
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 1: Monk on fire and Meli massacre and the Kent State murders.

1095
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, um yeah, saves those photos, yeah totally. And

1096
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 1: the second student at Jackson State was walking home from

1097
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:37,440
Speaker 1: the store holding milk when the cops murdered him, and

1098
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 1: some of these protests, this protests that they've been having

1099
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 1: a lot of more in solidarity with Kent State. But

1100
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 1: of course the preston cover it anywhere near as much

1101
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 1: as they did when white people were killed in Ohio.

1102
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 1: Nixon declared a commission to investigate all the unrest. His

1103
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 1: own commission was like, oh, it's it's your fault, Nixon,

1104
01:01:55,400 --> 01:02:00,200
Speaker 1: it's your own fucking fault. We we've determined you're a

1105
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 1: massive piece of shit. I think your policies are doing

1106
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 1: this happen. Yeah, not opening fire on peaceful student demonstrators.

1107
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 1: Nixon was like, never mind, I don't like you guys, like,

1108
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 1: I can't use this. Was it the Jews? No? Yeah? Uh.

1109
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:20,959
Speaker 1: And then, because it's never just the government beating people

1110
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:24,000
Speaker 1: up the same time as all this other shit, a

1111
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 1: bunch of students got beat to ship. Seventy of them

1112
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 1: were hospitalized in New York City by construction workers who

1113
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:32,960
Speaker 1: were building the World Trade Center. The workers use crowbars

1114
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:36,919
Speaker 1: wrapped in the American flag, and President Trump, I mean sorry.

1115
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 1: President Nixon invited twenty two of these workers to the

1116
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:43,520
Speaker 1: White House and gave them flag lapel pins for their

1117
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 1: bravery and hospitalizing students with crowbars. Students were demonstrating against

1118
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:53,439
Speaker 1: the war. Yeah, they're building the World Trade Center. Yeah,

1119
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is a closed circuit story. This

1120
01:02:56,920 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 1: is comes full fucking circle. It's a standby whatever the

1121
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 1: fucking yeah, whatever it is. That is so sad. Yeah,

1122
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 1: that is so so effing sad. They're like, no, no, no,

1123
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 1: we're protesting war. We don't want more of this shit.

1124
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 1: We we understand blowback. We don't believe in American empire.

1125
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:20,520
Speaker 1: We don't want it to harm people around the world. Sorry,

1126
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:23,680
Speaker 1: We're going to build this massive financial institution and then

1127
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 1: all the things you're protesting that, and he's all that

1128
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 1: money is going to go from Vietnam. Then it's going

1129
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 1: to go in the Middle East, and then we're going

1130
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 1: to fund Osama bin Laden through the CIA, which is

1131
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 1: again international FBI, and then then these things are coming down.

1132
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:44,120
Speaker 1: Don't you see what we're doing. We're time travelers of empire. God. Yeah,

1133
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 1: so fucking sad. No, no, fars wrapped in the American flag.

1134
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:50,400
Speaker 1: Reagan was a piece. There's no and I never heard

1135
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 1: the Wait, who who invited them lapel? Yeah that was Nixon, fucker. Yeah,

1136
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 1: like so you have right now, you have the oppression

1137
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 1: of the Pans, the Young Lords, the Yippies, student movements.

1138
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 1: I don't think it's an overstatement to say that the

1139
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 1: US was at war with itself in the year nineteen

1140
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 1: seventy And to quote the book The Burglary by Betty Medsker,

1141
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 1: people have been asking can there be peace in Vietnam? Now?

1142
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 1: People also asked can there be peace at home? And

1143
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 1: the answer is sort of And we're going to talk

1144
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 1: about it and get into our heist movie on part

1145
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 1: two on Wednesday. That's my very nice clanger, Magpie. Thanks

1146
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:33,800
Speaker 1: for working on them, Ranchesca. Is there anything you would

1147
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 1: like to plug at the end here? Yeah? Hell yeah,

1148
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:42,920
Speaker 1: everybody listen to The Bituation Room Podcasts Weekly comes out

1149
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,640
Speaker 1: on Wednesday's streams live on Tuesday's one pm Pacific four

1150
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 1: pm Eastern on YouTube and Twitch. Margaret was on we

1151
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 1: go into them, It's fun. We interview representative Summarily recently

1152
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 1: and that was really fucking cool. And yeah, follow me

1153
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 1: on all the things that Franny Fio. Oh yeah, Margaret,

1154
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:05,960
Speaker 1: do you have anything you'd like to plug? Books? Perhaps

1155
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:09,200
Speaker 1: you mean my book Escape from Insel Island. That's available

1156
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 1: wherever you buy books, but also from the publisher. Strangers

1157
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 1: in the tangled wilderness? Is that what you're saying? So? Yeah?

1158
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:19,120
Speaker 1: I mean, but there's also other ones. Many. We won't

1159
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 1: be here tomorrow, the lambles, slaughter of the lion. The

1160
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:23,680
Speaker 1: barrel will send what it may. We are many a

1161
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 1: country of ghosts? What lies beneath the clock tower? That's

1162
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:33,600
Speaker 1: what I remember. I'll the top of my head sick. Yeah. Yeah.

1163
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 1: Request them at your local library, or request them at

1164
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 1: Barnes and Noble, and then go in and cool People

1165
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 1: Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media.

1166
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 1: Or more podcasts on the cool Zone Media. Visit our

1167
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 1: website cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on

1168
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:55,920
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1169
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 1: Didn't you