WEBVTT - Ruthie's Table 4: Look Book Special 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:03.120 Welcomed to Ruthie's Table for a production of I Heart 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:10.160 Radio and Adamize Studios. When you open a cookbook, you 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:13.239 expect to see a photograph of the food with a 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:17.119 recipe on the opposite page. But imagine if you are 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:22.400 also saw something different, something completely unexpected, something that might 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:27.520 inspire you. There's a classic, there's all some I don't 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:29.720 know that. There's one opposite the chicken and milk, isn't 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:31.920 it were the hands look like they've been dipped in costard. 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:35.600 Somehow it works as a combo, doesn't it. And the 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:39.800 one with someone disappearing into the round chair in front 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:44.720 of the cross stater, it's really nice. I do love 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:48.479 the pink telephone with the sawbabe, because that picture of 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:50.599 that pink telephone and found at home, and it just 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:54.520 it is exactly where it needs to be. The other 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:56.200 one I love is the one which is I think 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:59.000 it's reveal with there's a car, there's a car up 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.560 on blocks and there's a big square piece of ribs. 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:04.080 I think it is it will be your ribs or 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:12.080 which is wrapped up? And I love that. Two years 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:15.080 after starting The River Cafe, Rose Gray and I were 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:18.600 asked by a publisher to do a cookbook. We replied 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:22.280 sternly that we were chefs, not writers. But the more 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:25.280 we thought about it, we realized that being a chef 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:29.280 is about communicating to the people eating your restaurant, to 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:32.160 the people who cook in the restaurant, to your family, 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:36.800 to your friends. Thirty years and twelve cookbooks later, we 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:40.160 have just published our newest, The River Cafe look Book 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:46.000 for kids of all ages. It's a collaboration between a photographer, designers, 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:49.680 and chefs. When you hold any book in your hands, 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:52.640 there's a story to be told about how it was created, 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.040 and that's what we're going to do on today's special 0:01:56.040 --> 0:02:03.480 episode of Ruthie's Table four. Joseph Travelli and Sean wyn 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:06.960 Owen are executive chefs at The River Cafe and co 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:10.880 authors of The River Cafe look Book. In the smartphone era, 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:16.840 physical cookbooks offers something special and uniquely inspiring. As a 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:22.239 kind of older adolescent, one of my first cookbooks was 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:25.079 an Alice A Little Cookbook. Maybe that began a path 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:26.640 that led me here. I don't know, because it's that 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:32.320 same generation. So it was Alice a Little and then 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:36.119 definitely on my twenty if I got the River Cafe Cookbook, 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:40.680 but there weren't these kind of children's cookbooks. I can't remember. 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:43.680 I love them all, Like was it on Claudia Rhodin's 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:47.320 Food of Italy and Michel Hazzan and the Rue Brothers 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:50.080 and people like that. I really enjoyed that French cooking. 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:52.560 And actually, when I started being a chef, I thought, 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:53.840 I want to go and work in the Rits in 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:57.359 London and learn every single potato dish that exists. I 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:00.520 always read the classics, but I've never read the six 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:04.440 I've read the classic cookbooks. I've got children myself, and 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:07.680 you know, my oldest she is an avid cookbook reader. 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:10.519 She will sit in bed, the kind of cliche I 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:12.000 used to always joke, you say, you know, I sit 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.320 in bed and read cookbooks and don't cook for them. 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:18.080 Sometimes not that much her all the time, you know. 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:20.080 So she has all these books, some of which I 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.760 find completely horrifying, loads and loads of sugar icing, but 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:28.800 not just. She also really enjoys the Silver Spoon Italian Cookbook, 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:32.040 as you'll sit there reading through and then you know, 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:36.280 quotes measurements to me, which is quite funny. Yeah, we're 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:39.160 starting to cook now, and you know, we'll be leading 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:41.360 up to this book, I think pretty quickly. To be honest, 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:45.000 it's really good because it's going to open her eyes 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:47.960 to a whole bunch of new things. At the heart 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:51.520 of the book, of course, are the recipes. Sean Winnellen 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:57.400 and Joseph Tavelli. We chose the recipes thinking about all 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:00.560 the young people that we knew what they like to eat, 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:04.480 and a little bit, you know, because after all, we 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:07.760 are parents, what we'd like them to eat, So we 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:12.520 wanted to choose things that they'd find exciting but nevertheless straightforward, 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:18.200 not super challenging, but also not patronizing. It's what we 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:22.080 would like to eat. And also their recipes that you're 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:25.159 never going to regret learning how to spatch cock chicken 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.760 that you've grilled or cooked in milk, or how to 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:31.240 make a basic tomato risotto, and then you know, take 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:33.080 from that, I actually know how to make a resutto, 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:35.839 maybe I'll try and do something different, you know, And 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:40.120 so their recipes that they're not children fied. One of 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:42.839 the things we wanted to do was do a book 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:47.280 that was the chef's book for young people or latterly 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:50.000 kids of all ages as if a chef was looking 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:53.320 over your shoulder, as opposed to it being kind of 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.560 a step by step. The thinking behind the tips was 0:04:56.600 --> 0:05:01.440 to give some pointers and to shine just a few 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:04.800 kind of specific lights just to help that go smoothly. 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:09.080 I think it's really useful photography and design bring a 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:13.400 cookbook to life. Matthew Donaldson took all of the photographs 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:17.000 in the book. I think the first thing that we 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.080 really did together was the thirty years of the River 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.320 Cafe cookbook. It was like an education, you know, to 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:25.760 see every plate of food that was put in front 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.279 of me. It just wasn't something that I was photographing 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:31.800 and had photographed before. Right now we're doing pastor, it's 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:34.120 got to look like this. I didn't have any preconceived 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:39.520 ideas the sort of minimal ethos and the architectural ethos. 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:44.200 The color made it incredibly easy for me because you 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.039 Joseph and Sean, you'd already taken away a lot of 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:48.839 the things that would be fussy, that would that I 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:50.920 would be having to trot with anybody else would be 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:54.960 having to get rid of. So often you do photography 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:58.600 and and people want it to be styled. They want 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:01.120 a lifestyle or they want to dial so that involves 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:05.520 we need to have cutlery or or salt and pepper, 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:08.039 or we need flowers, or we need Although there was 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:11.799 movement in the seventies and were the eighties, I guess 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:15.000 I think I'm always looking for, um, what to take 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:17.160 out of a photograph, rather than what to add in. 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:19.640 I'm always, I've always always think that there's got to 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:21.560 be something else we can get rid of. I think, 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:23.240 and when you said to me, we don't have knives 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:27.000 and forks in our photographs, I was so happy. Maybe 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:30.520 a lot of those magazines and um cookbooks were kind 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:34.839 of aspirational that if you cooked a fabulous meal, people 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:38.279 would be impressed, or you can make it different. Seemed 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:40.760 like you were a different lifestyle. And I think what 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.400 Rose and I started with the first book and then 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:47.000 we've continued is the idea that you know, the immediacy 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:50.000 of actually cooking something, putting it on a table, and 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:52.960 then taking a photograph of it. But I think one 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:55.680 of the things before we get to River Cafe look 0:06:55.720 --> 0:07:00.000 book is shadow, and not in every photograph, but there 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.560 is the beautiful, beautiful use of shadow. And I was 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:07.000 wondering what is your thought in that it's a control 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:10.920 I think if it's if it's always there, if if 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.080 you have one thing that is like a control thing 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:16.360 that makes all of the photographs it together. It was 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:18.760 a real environment we had. We were using real light. 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:24.280 But I think that the shadow really holds the image 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:26.960 on the page. I think that if you've got a 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.720 white plate on a white background or something you really 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.000 need something that it frames the image really in a 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:35.800 way that it's allowed to be there. It also, particularly 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:38.760 with the River Cafe, it suggests that there is some 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.960 and there is light, and there is and it's optimistic 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:46.960 and it makes you feel good, but it's not. I 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:48.720 don't think we would ever and I might have done 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:50.320 it a couple of times. But the idea of having 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:55.000 sunlight that sort of dappled is going into a lifestyle thing. 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:58.040 It's putting ideas. It's trying to make a mood that 0:07:58.120 --> 0:07:59.880 I don't ever really want to do that. I just 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.480 want to present the things as simply as possible, you know, 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:06.560 and that you know, a plate of a dinner or 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:08.920 lunch of the River Cafe is what it is. It 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:16.040 really doesn't need any help from me. My name is 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:18.960 Hamish I am one of the chefs here at the 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:22.840 River Cafe, so I'm having to look through the look book. 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:28.680 Now I'm thinking about maybe doing these slowly roasted Dattini tomatoes. 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:33.000 We've got seven fifty grams of red and yellow Datterini tomatoes, 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:38.120 two cloves of garlic, two tablespoons of olive oil, ten 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:42.080 sprigs of time tea, salt, and freshly ground pepper to season. 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.600 I've preheated my oven to a hundred and fifty degrees, 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:49.600 which is gas marked. Two. I've just gone and washed 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:52.920 my red and yellow datterin ese and then pricked them 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.199 all with a toothpick. They stopped them bursting when you're 0:08:56.200 --> 0:09:01.800 cooking them. It allows the juices to flow. Okay, So 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:05.640 the third step, after you've washed them pricked your tomatoes 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:08.720 is to put them into a bowl with the olive oil, 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:15.000 the garlic and the time And now I'm just tossing 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:19.240 them around in the bowl and I'm going to season 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:24.719 them up fairly generously with salt and pepper. Spread out 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:28.160 your tomatoes now without overcrowding them onto a thin bacon sheet. 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.440 So now we're just gonna put them into our preheated 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:34.840 oven for about an hour and an hour and a half. 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:52.960 Mm hmm. Oh. They're beautiful, super simple, very delicious, not 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:56.199 too overpowering in any flavor, which is why they're quite 0:09:56.240 --> 0:10:00.840 delicate and lovely to have with many dishes. Yeah, it's amazing, 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:06.080 isn't it. How those recipes you think are so simple, 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:09.080 but they're so good, Like the simple cooking is actually 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:12.199 maybe the best cooking. There's a cookbooks that are really challenging. 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:17.160 Often not always, this can be disappointing because they're so 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:20.200 challenging and you get yourself in the right mess. You 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.120 also don't maybe you want to make so much mess 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:24.760 the rest of the times when clearing up, you just 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.760 need like the best of us, few ingredients and just 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:30.720 a little bit of knowledge and then you're away, you know. 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:44.520 And I think that's what this kid's book is. I'm 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:49.400 here today with Stephanie Dash and Anthony Michael, the designers 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:53.760 are directors of everything in The River Cafe, but especially 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:57.679 these beautiful books River Cafe thirty and today what we're 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.319 going to be talking about is The River Cafe a 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.959 Look book. The idea for having the book in two 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:06.839 different sections came quite late in the day. The book 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:12.560 started off as a cookbook for kids and was based 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:19.120 around how kids might interact with making food. We would say, 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.000 you know, as I say, by a tomato peel, the 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:25.040 tomatoes squeeze a tomato, fried tomato, and we're doing it 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:28.280 and we I think Anthony's definitely all of us thought 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.080 and at a certain point it's been done before and 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:34.200 probably done better than I could possibly do it. We 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:38.200 just felt uncomfortable with that method. It was very process driven, 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:40.560 and we were doing it sort of a step by step, 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:42.680 and then we did it and looked at it and 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:44.880 it just looked no fun, and then worse than that, 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.400 it looked patronizing. So I think we all just looked 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.000 at it on everyone. Everyone just liked it and it 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:53.920 was back to the drawing board. In any creative process, 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:57.720 there are moments when you feel stuck. What inspired the 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:00.720 creation of the River Cafe look Book was a pamphlet 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:04.160 I was given created by an artist, a photographer and 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:09.960 two neurologiers funded by the Nesse Foundation, pairing diverse images. 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:14.840 Matthew Donaldson or we didn't really know we were onto something. 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:18.719 I don't think until we had those books. There were 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:24.200 books that you had at home that paired photographs together, 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:29.840 and they were done by a doctor and a researcher 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:35.040 for neurological patients to stimulate by putting pictures opposite each other, 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:37.439 like a picture of a baboon opposite I can't remember 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:39.120 what's opposite of a booon picture, but there would be 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:43.640 a picture of her building or something. Something clipped and 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:47.720 something happened. I remember when Stephanie put two pictures together, 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:51.360 and one was a picture of some stilly sits DeLine 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.640 a soup like chicken soup, basically the suit that you're 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:56.840 in my house and anyway, if anyone's ill, that's what 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:01.280 they've given tiny little pastors in a chicken broth. And 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.720 Stephanie put it opposite a photograph of a fire escape, 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:10.360 which I'd photographed in Los Angeles in and I had 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:12.400 been lying in bed in my hotel room, and I 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:14.440 looked at that every day, and I've just been very 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:18.280 ill and definitely not knowing anything about the about these 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:20.640 photographs of where they come from. And put the two together, 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:23.240 and there was the view of the person who was 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:26.120 recovering with the suit. They should have been eating the 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.480 thing that they were looking at, and immediately there was 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:33.200 something in it. We went from kind of teaching in 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:36.800 a very small way how to cook to a kind 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:41.760 of almost inspirational book. You know, how do you inspire 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:45.199 somebody to cook? How did you inspire somebody to make 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.200 a recipe? And we, you know, we thought it's not 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:51.120 by perhaps having a photograph and then the recipe, because 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:54.800 that could be intimidating or overwhelming, or you love the photograph, 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:56.920 but then when you look at the recipe, it's thinking, well, 0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:02.280 maybe I won't. And so we did work are pairing photographs. 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.679 Having worked with Matthew a lot, we knew his pictures 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:09.120 very well, so we used the food pictures and then 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:14.600 literally trawled through his instagram, which was relentless job, and 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:19.640 then matched the photographs. There was a really challenging process 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.600 of how you put a vase of flowers next to 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:27.480 a spaghetti anglais or you know, Roman villa next to 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:31.000 a plate of piers. It's easy, somewhat obvious. Some just 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:34.160 felt they were they were meant for each other, that 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:37.680 they were they were separated at birth, and then others 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:39.960 you have to work out what would you like to 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.520 describe what we're So we're looking at a horse that's 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:49.800 a Spanish decorated dress horse and a plate of tomatoes 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:55.880 in the same colors, all circles, all dogs. The relationship 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:59.920 is really about. Yeah, I mean it's a very obvious relation, 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:04.080 but putting the two together and having food next to 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.360 an image which has nothing to do with food, and 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.560 I think that came really from I think children have 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:14.520 the amazing thing, whether they just are not they're not programmed, 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:17.840 they're not programmed to think plate on a food recipe 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:20.600 next to the page, and they have this amazing I 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:23.880 think their visual thinkers. I think they imagine things in 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.520 pictures and they don't necessarily need this perfect picture of 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:28.320 food and to copy it. And that's kind of what 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.200 we didn't really want to do. So putting all the 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:33.480 pictures together and doing that old druxposition just seemed to 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:37.280 be to work. But I don't think it's a specifically 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:39.960 child centric thing. I think a lot of adults think 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:43.120 like that. And it's lying on your back and looking 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.920 at clouds and seeing what you see in the clouds. 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:49.400 There's lots of things that children see that we all see, 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.160 so things that remind you of things like so you 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:54.440 sometimes you look at a piece of polished wood and 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:56.880 you can see figures in there or animals in there, 0:15:57.200 --> 0:15:59.600 and you make the shapes up because I think your 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:03.240 mind's searching all the time to see things to recognize. 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:06.640 So when you present two images next to each other 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:11.440 that have got an obvious relationship, you start to see 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:14.200 the similarities and it can make you smile. And I 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.160 think that the books, the original books that Ruthie was given, 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.920 I've got a much more serious intent that they're They're 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.040 meant to open up pathways in somebody's head that might 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:25.760 have closed. But these are these are just good fun. 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:30.680 But it really Ruthie was the was the the instigator 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:33.920 and the pusher. She she she planted the idea and 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:36.120 then the concept of it, and then and then we 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:39.400 sort of took it with Matthew's pictures, and strangely we 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:43.000 did the juxtaposition because I think Matthew probably there were 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:45.880 his photographs, so us putting them together, and then we 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:47.920 put them all together around the table and everybody sit around. 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:50.240 Ruthie would changed we then at that point then we 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:52.320 would all look at them and move them around until 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:55.800 everyone was happy. Some like ones and not another. But 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:58.560 they're very they are very subjective. Some things are jarring, 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.120 and I can imagine it's a bit like food as well. 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:04.200 So if you put two flavors together, you sometimes think, 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:06.400 oh my god, I can't eat that possibly, but once 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:07.840 you've had it a few times, you think, actually, do 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:09.480 you know what? I really enjoy that sort of bitter 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:11.520 and sweets or something. I don't know. So I think 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:13.200 the pictures can do the same thing. So I think 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:16.320 that there are ones that obvious couplings, and then there 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.480 are ones that you have to learn to enjoy it 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:24.480 to like. And then you decided that it should just 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.560 be those photographs the book, the first hundred pages of 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:29.879 the book. Let's say, I think it is hundred pages 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:33.720 should just be photographs. Do you have a page that 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.479 you particularly love. I like the one I mentioned earlier 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:39.399 with the Stele neighbor because of that story. I do 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:43.399 love the pink telephone with the sorbet because that picture 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:47.040 that pink telephone has been around knocking around my studio 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:51.639 and draws and computers for such a long time, and 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.040 I'm so happy that it found at home and it 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:57.320 just it is exactly where it needs to be. It 0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:59.480 does I mean maybe that I'm not allowed to say this, 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:01.399 but we're I do look through it, and I have 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:04.280 looked through it quite a lot lately because obviously it's 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.960 you know, it's just arrived and so curious to look 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:08.840 at what we did. I think that it makes it 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:11.640 does make me. It makes me smile, and that can't 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:15.399 be a bad thing. Not in a cookery book. Joseph 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:18.240 Travelli and Sean Wino and our executive chefs in the 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.760 River Cafe and co authors of The River Cafe Look Book, 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:26.080 every single picture of food we cooked ourselves, every single 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:27.840 picture of the food we did, and it is as 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.919 a recipe. It was taken in real time, wasn't It 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:34.080 wasn't wasn't styled as such. It was just out of 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.879 the off and onto the plate. And then trying to 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.200 select the image that went alongside it. That was maybe 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:42.959 one of the hardest bits of the book because there 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.800 was five of us, so it was Anthony and Stephanie, Matthew, Ruthie, Me, 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.879 Joseph and trying to get five people to agree on 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:54.560 what picture sits opposite spaghetti bongala for example. That probably 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:57.080 took about a year. What's so nice I think we've 0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:00.160 been talking recently is about the way that especially you're 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:01.919 a beginner cook and you get a picture and a 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:05.600 recipe you want to cook. You know the picture exactly, 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:10.400 And what's lovely is that with the with the juxtaposition 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:12.159 of the pictures, you've got these two images and you 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:13.800 get more of a kind of feeling or something. And 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:15.920 then again the recipe isn't right there. You've got to 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:18.880 keep shuffling backwards and forwards. So I think that will 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:21.679 give people their ability to cook better food. Actually, but 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:24.840 one of the things we thought, I I felt having 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:30.040 got a teenage kid, is how they you know, giving 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.760 them a book may not be the most popular present 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:36.760 you buy a teenager, and so you know, knowing how 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:40.320 image lead they are, I like the idea of the 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:42.639 fact it is almost like scrolling through Instagram, where you 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:45.840 are getting a lot of images that are just mixed up, 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:47.679 and it's up to you how long you stay on 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:51.040 a picture. And then if you know, often some of 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:53.359 the pictures you rest upon are actually not the food, 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:55.200 and you're like, I like that picture of a telephone, 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.160 but I don't know why. Or you might hover over 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:00.479 a picture of as cream in a old and things 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.080 I want to make that. But then also at the end, 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:05.320 you've got all the colors. So even if you just 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:07.399 look at the book just because you like the colors, 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.560 it feels like it's you can use it in many ways. 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:13.200 But for me, I was interested in trying to get 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:16.119 a teenager to enjoy it or to to want to 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:19.000 own it as well. And I thought, you know, maybe 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:22.480 that that element of image image image was might just 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:36.600 get them to pick it up. Hi, I'm Monica. I'm 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.200 a waitress at the River Cafe. I have the cookbook 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:40.880 at home. We only just got it, so i haven't 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:44.280 cooked from it, but I'm hoping that when I do 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:46.920 have a couple of weeks spare, that I can make 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:53.040 the potatoes from it. Next to each of the pages, 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:57.600 there's sort of a picture of kind of a visual comparisons. 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:02.040 As I flicked through the book, I like the stairwell 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:05.760 next to the Paranoma tarp. I think that the pair 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:10.119 and Almontae is a transporting experience like a stairwell. I 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:12.080 think when a lot of people come to the River Cafe, 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:16.200 they really look forward to their desserts. I think the 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:20.080 three probably most popular are the Paranorma Talk, the Lamon Talk, 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:23.760 and the Chocolate Nemesis. I used Cope books a lot. 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:26.840 I think what makes the River Cafe some of the 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:32.119 recipes so special is that they are accessible. One of 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.879 the beauties of this book. And I think it was 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:38.159 a challenge because you remember, we had all the photographs, 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:42.520 and then how do we segue from these photographs into 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:44.600 the recipes, you know, how do we do that? We 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:46.960 had black and white and white and black, and we 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:53.680 had and then one day you said two words to us, 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:56.639 and it was baracous airport. We used to have a 0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:58.320 client in Madrid and used to have to go to 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:01.399 Madrid probably twice week to come a month, and I 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:03.240 used to not like going to the meetings, but I 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:08.359 and I just really loved the airport and just loved 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:11.719 landing and seeing the rainbow colors on the stanchions as 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:14.720 you as you came in. Just always always sort of 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:17.119 stayed with me for a really long time. So then 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:19.119 when we came to the Rainbow Kings, all sort of 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:23.640 came together and we actually used photographs and Richard's reference 0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:27.440 points for those colors. We've done the images, and we've 0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:29.639 done the cover, and we were trying to do the layout, 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:31.399 and then we were sitting in the private room. And 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:33.800 remember and we were just talking about something I can't 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:36.760 in the book didn't quite come together. We couldn't put 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:38.639 a finger on what was missing it for like, had 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:41.679 all this visual stuff, there's great recipes, but this somehow 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:43.679 it was a bit of a disconnect. And we were 0:22:43.720 --> 0:22:46.600 just talking about someone was being in Spain. Ruth was 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:49.320 talking about Madrid Airport and how Richard designed it with 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:52.840 the color walk through different color zones. And then we 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:55.480 were like, maybe we should do that with the book. 0:22:56.320 --> 0:22:57.840 And we didn't know whether it would work or not 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:00.240 because there's no ware testing it. So we did know 0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:03.160 whether there will be enough creep of the color into 0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:05.960