1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,120 Speaker 1: Welcomed to Ruthie's Table for a production of I Heart 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: Radio and Adamize Studios. When you open a cookbook, you 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,239 Speaker 1: expect to see a photograph of the food with a 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: recipe on the opposite page. But imagine if you are 5 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: also saw something different, something completely unexpected, something that might 6 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: inspire you. There's a classic, there's all some I don't 7 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: know that. There's one opposite the chicken and milk, isn't 8 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: it were the hands look like they've been dipped in costard. 9 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: Somehow it works as a combo, doesn't it. And the 10 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: one with someone disappearing into the round chair in front 11 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: of the cross stater, it's really nice. I do love 12 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: the pink telephone with the sawbabe, because that picture of 13 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,599 Speaker 1: that pink telephone and found at home, and it just 14 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: it is exactly where it needs to be. The other 15 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: one I love is the one which is I think 16 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: it's reveal with there's a car, there's a car up 17 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: on blocks and there's a big square piece of ribs. 18 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: I think it is it will be your ribs or 19 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: which is wrapped up? And I love that. Two years 20 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: after starting The River Cafe, Rose Gray and I were 21 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: asked by a publisher to do a cookbook. We replied 22 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: sternly that we were chefs, not writers. But the more 23 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: we thought about it, we realized that being a chef 24 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: is about communicating to the people eating your restaurant, to 25 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: the people who cook in the restaurant, to your family, 26 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: to your friends. Thirty years and twelve cookbooks later, we 27 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: have just published our newest, The River Cafe look Book 28 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: for kids of all ages. It's a collaboration between a photographer, designers, 29 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: and chefs. When you hold any book in your hands, 30 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: there's a story to be told about how it was created, 31 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: and that's what we're going to do on today's special 32 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: episode of Ruthie's Table four. Joseph Travelli and Sean wyn 33 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: Owen are executive chefs at The River Cafe and co 34 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: authors of The River Cafe look Book. In the smartphone era, 35 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: physical cookbooks offers something special and uniquely inspiring. As a 36 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:22,239 Speaker 1: kind of older adolescent, one of my first cookbooks was 37 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: an Alice A Little Cookbook. Maybe that began a path 38 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: that led me here. I don't know, because it's that 39 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: same generation. So it was Alice a Little and then 40 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,119 Speaker 1: definitely on my twenty if I got the River Cafe Cookbook, 41 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: but there weren't these kind of children's cookbooks. I can't remember. 42 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: I love them all, Like was it on Claudia Rhodin's 43 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: Food of Italy and Michel Hazzan and the Rue Brothers 44 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 1: and people like that. I really enjoyed that French cooking. 45 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: And actually, when I started being a chef, I thought, 46 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: I want to go and work in the Rits in 47 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: London and learn every single potato dish that exists. I 48 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: always read the classics, but I've never read the six 49 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: I've read the classic cookbooks. I've got children myself, and 50 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: you know, my oldest she is an avid cookbook reader. 51 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 1: She will sit in bed, the kind of cliche I 52 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: used to always joke, you say, you know, I sit 53 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: in bed and read cookbooks and don't cook for them. 54 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 1: Sometimes not that much her all the time, you know. 55 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: So she has all these books, some of which I 56 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: find completely horrifying, loads and loads of sugar icing, but 57 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: not just. She also really enjoys the Silver Spoon Italian Cookbook, 58 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: as you'll sit there reading through and then you know, 59 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: quotes measurements to me, which is quite funny. Yeah, we're 60 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: starting to cook now, and you know, we'll be leading 61 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: up to this book, I think pretty quickly. To be honest, 62 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: it's really good because it's going to open her eyes 63 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: to a whole bunch of new things. At the heart 64 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: of the book, of course, are the recipes. Sean Winnellen 65 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: and Joseph Tavelli. We chose the recipes thinking about all 66 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: the young people that we knew what they like to eat, 67 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: and a little bit, you know, because after all, we 68 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: are parents, what we'd like them to eat, So we 69 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: wanted to choose things that they'd find exciting but nevertheless straightforward, 70 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: not super challenging, but also not patronizing. It's what we 71 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: would like to eat. And also their recipes that you're 72 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: never going to regret learning how to spatch cock chicken 73 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: that you've grilled or cooked in milk, or how to 74 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: make a basic tomato risotto, and then you know, take 75 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: from that, I actually know how to make a resutto, 76 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 1: maybe I'll try and do something different, you know, And 77 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: so their recipes that they're not children fied. One of 78 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: the things we wanted to do was do a book 79 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: that was the chef's book for young people or latterly 80 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: kids of all ages as if a chef was looking 81 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: over your shoulder, as opposed to it being kind of 82 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: a step by step. The thinking behind the tips was 83 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: to give some pointers and to shine just a few 84 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: kind of specific lights just to help that go smoothly. 85 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: I think it's really useful photography and design bring a 86 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: cookbook to life. Matthew Donaldson took all of the photographs 87 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: in the book. I think the first thing that we 88 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: really did together was the thirty years of the River 89 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: Cafe cookbook. It was like an education, you know, to 90 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: see every plate of food that was put in front 91 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: of me. It just wasn't something that I was photographing 92 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: and had photographed before. Right now we're doing pastor, it's 93 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: got to look like this. I didn't have any preconceived 94 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: ideas the sort of minimal ethos and the architectural ethos. 95 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: The color made it incredibly easy for me because you 96 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: Joseph and Sean, you'd already taken away a lot of 97 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: the things that would be fussy, that would that I 98 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: would be having to trot with anybody else would be 99 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: having to get rid of. So often you do photography 100 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: and and people want it to be styled. They want 101 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: a lifestyle or they want to dial so that involves 102 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: we need to have cutlery or or salt and pepper, 103 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 1: or we need flowers, or we need Although there was 104 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,799 Speaker 1: movement in the seventies and were the eighties, I guess 105 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: I think I'm always looking for, um, what to take 106 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 1: out of a photograph, rather than what to add in. 107 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: I'm always, I've always always think that there's got to 108 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: be something else we can get rid of. I think, 109 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: and when you said to me, we don't have knives 110 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: and forks in our photographs, I was so happy. Maybe 111 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: a lot of those magazines and um cookbooks were kind 112 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: of aspirational that if you cooked a fabulous meal, people 113 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: would be impressed, or you can make it different. Seemed 114 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: like you were a different lifestyle. And I think what 115 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: Rose and I started with the first book and then 116 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: we've continued is the idea that you know, the immediacy 117 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: of actually cooking something, putting it on a table, and 118 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: then taking a photograph of it. But I think one 119 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: of the things before we get to River Cafe look 120 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: book is shadow, and not in every photograph, but there 121 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: is the beautiful, beautiful use of shadow. And I was 122 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: wondering what is your thought in that it's a control 123 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: I think if it's if it's always there, if if 124 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: you have one thing that is like a control thing 125 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: that makes all of the photographs it together. It was 126 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: a real environment we had. We were using real light. 127 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: But I think that the shadow really holds the image 128 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: on the page. I think that if you've got a 129 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: white plate on a white background or something you really 130 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: need something that it frames the image really in a 131 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: way that it's allowed to be there. It also, particularly 132 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: with the River Cafe, it suggests that there is some 133 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: and there is light, and there is and it's optimistic 134 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: and it makes you feel good, but it's not. I 135 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: don't think we would ever and I might have done 136 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: it a couple of times. But the idea of having 137 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: sunlight that sort of dappled is going into a lifestyle thing. 138 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: It's putting ideas. It's trying to make a mood that 139 00:07:58,120 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: I don't ever really want to do that. I just 140 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: want to present the things as simply as possible, you know, 141 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: and that you know, a plate of a dinner or 142 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: lunch of the River Cafe is what it is. It 143 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: really doesn't need any help from me. My name is 144 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: Hamish I am one of the chefs here at the 145 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: River Cafe, so I'm having to look through the look book. 146 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: Now I'm thinking about maybe doing these slowly roasted Dattini tomatoes. 147 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: We've got seven fifty grams of red and yellow Datterini tomatoes, 148 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: two cloves of garlic, two tablespoons of olive oil, ten 149 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 1: sprigs of time tea, salt, and freshly ground pepper to season. 150 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: I've preheated my oven to a hundred and fifty degrees, 151 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: which is gas marked. Two. I've just gone and washed 152 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: my red and yellow datterin ese and then pricked them 153 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 1: all with a toothpick. They stopped them bursting when you're 154 00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: cooking them. It allows the juices to flow. Okay, So 155 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: the third step, after you've washed them pricked your tomatoes 156 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: is to put them into a bowl with the olive oil, 157 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: the garlic and the time And now I'm just tossing 158 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: them around in the bowl and I'm going to season 159 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:24,719 Speaker 1: them up fairly generously with salt and pepper. Spread out 160 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: your tomatoes now without overcrowding them onto a thin bacon sheet. 161 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: So now we're just gonna put them into our preheated 162 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: oven for about an hour and an hour and a half. 163 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Oh. They're beautiful, super simple, very delicious, not 164 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,199 Speaker 1: too overpowering in any flavor, which is why they're quite 165 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: delicate and lovely to have with many dishes. Yeah, it's amazing, 166 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: isn't it. How those recipes you think are so simple, 167 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: but they're so good, Like the simple cooking is actually 168 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 1: maybe the best cooking. There's a cookbooks that are really challenging. 169 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: Often not always, this can be disappointing because they're so 170 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: challenging and you get yourself in the right mess. You 171 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: also don't maybe you want to make so much mess 172 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: the rest of the times when clearing up, you just 173 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: need like the best of us, few ingredients and just 174 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: a little bit of knowledge and then you're away, you know. 175 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: And I think that's what this kid's book is. I'm 176 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: here today with Stephanie Dash and Anthony Michael, the designers 177 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: are directors of everything in The River Cafe, but especially 178 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 1: these beautiful books River Cafe thirty and today what we're 179 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 1: going to be talking about is The River Cafe a 180 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 1: Look book. The idea for having the book in two 181 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 1: different sections came quite late in the day. The book 182 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 1: started off as a cookbook for kids and was based 183 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: around how kids might interact with making food. We would say, 184 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: you know, as I say, by a tomato peel, the 185 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: tomatoes squeeze a tomato, fried tomato, and we're doing it 186 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: and we I think Anthony's definitely all of us thought 187 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: and at a certain point it's been done before and 188 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: probably done better than I could possibly do it. We 189 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: just felt uncomfortable with that method. It was very process driven, 190 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: and we were doing it sort of a step by step, 191 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 1: and then we did it and looked at it and 192 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: it just looked no fun, and then worse than that, 193 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: it looked patronizing. So I think we all just looked 194 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: at it on everyone. Everyone just liked it and it 195 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: was back to the drawing board. In any creative process, 196 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: there are moments when you feel stuck. What inspired the 197 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: creation of the River Cafe look Book was a pamphlet 198 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: I was given created by an artist, a photographer and 199 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: two neurologiers funded by the Nesse Foundation, pairing diverse images. 200 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: Matthew Donaldson or we didn't really know we were onto something. 201 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,719 Speaker 1: I don't think until we had those books. There were 202 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: books that you had at home that paired photographs together, 203 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: and they were done by a doctor and a researcher 204 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: for neurological patients to stimulate by putting pictures opposite each other, 205 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,439 Speaker 1: like a picture of a baboon opposite I can't remember 206 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: what's opposite of a booon picture, but there would be 207 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: a picture of her building or something. Something clipped and 208 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: something happened. I remember when Stephanie put two pictures together, 209 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: and one was a picture of some stilly sits DeLine 210 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: a soup like chicken soup, basically the suit that you're 211 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: in my house and anyway, if anyone's ill, that's what 212 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: they've given tiny little pastors in a chicken broth. And 213 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: Stephanie put it opposite a photograph of a fire escape, 214 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: which I'd photographed in Los Angeles in and I had 215 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: been lying in bed in my hotel room, and I 216 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: looked at that every day, and I've just been very 217 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: ill and definitely not knowing anything about the about these 218 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: photographs of where they come from. And put the two together, 219 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: and there was the view of the person who was 220 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: recovering with the suit. They should have been eating the 221 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: thing that they were looking at, and immediately there was 222 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: something in it. We went from kind of teaching in 223 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: a very small way how to cook to a kind 224 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: of almost inspirational book. You know, how do you inspire 225 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 1: somebody to cook? How did you inspire somebody to make 226 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: a recipe? And we, you know, we thought it's not 227 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: by perhaps having a photograph and then the recipe, because 228 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: that could be intimidating or overwhelming, or you love the photograph, 229 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: but then when you look at the recipe, it's thinking, well, 230 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: maybe I won't. And so we did work are pairing photographs. 231 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 1: Having worked with Matthew a lot, we knew his pictures 232 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: very well, so we used the food pictures and then 233 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: literally trawled through his instagram, which was relentless job, and 234 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: then matched the photographs. There was a really challenging process 235 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: of how you put a vase of flowers next to 236 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: a spaghetti anglais or you know, Roman villa next to 237 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: a plate of piers. It's easy, somewhat obvious. Some just 238 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: felt they were they were meant for each other, that 239 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: they were they were separated at birth, and then others 240 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: you have to work out what would you like to 241 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: describe what we're So we're looking at a horse that's 242 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: a Spanish decorated dress horse and a plate of tomatoes 243 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: in the same colors, all circles, all dogs. The relationship 244 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: is really about. Yeah, I mean it's a very obvious relation, 245 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: but putting the two together and having food next to 246 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: an image which has nothing to do with food, and 247 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: I think that came really from I think children have 248 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: the amazing thing, whether they just are not they're not programmed, 249 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: they're not programmed to think plate on a food recipe 250 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: next to the page, and they have this amazing I 251 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: think their visual thinkers. I think they imagine things in 252 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: pictures and they don't necessarily need this perfect picture of 253 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: food and to copy it. And that's kind of what 254 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: we didn't really want to do. So putting all the 255 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: pictures together and doing that old druxposition just seemed to 256 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: be to work. But I don't think it's a specifically 257 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: child centric thing. I think a lot of adults think 258 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: like that. And it's lying on your back and looking 259 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: at clouds and seeing what you see in the clouds. 260 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: There's lots of things that children see that we all see, 261 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: so things that remind you of things like so you 262 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: sometimes you look at a piece of polished wood and 263 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: you can see figures in there or animals in there, 264 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: and you make the shapes up because I think your 265 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: mind's searching all the time to see things to recognize. 266 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: So when you present two images next to each other 267 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: that have got an obvious relationship, you start to see 268 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: the similarities and it can make you smile. And I 269 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: think that the books, the original books that Ruthie was given, 270 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: I've got a much more serious intent that they're They're 271 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: meant to open up pathways in somebody's head that might 272 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: have closed. But these are these are just good fun. 273 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: But it really Ruthie was the was the the instigator 274 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: and the pusher. She she she planted the idea and 275 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: then the concept of it, and then and then we 276 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: sort of took it with Matthew's pictures, and strangely we 277 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: did the juxtaposition because I think Matthew probably there were 278 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: his photographs, so us putting them together, and then we 279 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: put them all together around the table and everybody sit around. 280 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: Ruthie would changed we then at that point then we 281 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: would all look at them and move them around until 282 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: everyone was happy. Some like ones and not another. But 283 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: they're very they are very subjective. Some things are jarring, 284 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: and I can imagine it's a bit like food as well. 285 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: So if you put two flavors together, you sometimes think, 286 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,400 Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't eat that possibly, but once 287 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: you've had it a few times, you think, actually, do 288 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: you know what? I really enjoy that sort of bitter 289 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: and sweets or something. I don't know. So I think 290 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: the pictures can do the same thing. So I think 291 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: that there are ones that obvious couplings, and then there 292 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: are ones that you have to learn to enjoy it 293 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: to like. And then you decided that it should just 294 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: be those photographs the book, the first hundred pages of 295 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 1: the book. Let's say, I think it is hundred pages 296 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: should just be photographs. Do you have a page that 297 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,479 Speaker 1: you particularly love. I like the one I mentioned earlier 298 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: with the Stele neighbor because of that story. I do 299 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 1: love the pink telephone with the sorbet because that picture 300 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: that pink telephone has been around knocking around my studio 301 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: and draws and computers for such a long time, and 302 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: I'm so happy that it found at home and it 303 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: just it is exactly where it needs to be. It 304 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: does I mean maybe that I'm not allowed to say this, 305 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: but we're I do look through it, and I have 306 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: looked through it quite a lot lately because obviously it's 307 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: you know, it's just arrived and so curious to look 308 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: at what we did. I think that it makes it 309 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 1: does make me. It makes me smile, and that can't 310 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: be a bad thing. Not in a cookery book. Joseph 311 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: Travelli and Sean Wino and our executive chefs in the 312 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: River Cafe and co authors of The River Cafe Look Book, 313 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: every single picture of food we cooked ourselves, every single 314 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: picture of the food we did, and it is as 315 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 1: a recipe. It was taken in real time, wasn't It 316 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: wasn't wasn't styled as such. It was just out of 317 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: the off and onto the plate. And then trying to 318 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: select the image that went alongside it. That was maybe 319 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,959 Speaker 1: one of the hardest bits of the book because there 320 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: was five of us, so it was Anthony and Stephanie, Matthew, Ruthie, Me, 321 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 1: Joseph and trying to get five people to agree on 322 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: what picture sits opposite spaghetti bongala for example. That probably 323 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: took about a year. What's so nice I think we've 324 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,160 Speaker 1: been talking recently is about the way that especially you're 325 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 1: a beginner cook and you get a picture and a 326 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: recipe you want to cook. You know the picture exactly, 327 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 1: And what's lovely is that with the with the juxtaposition 328 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 1: of the pictures, you've got these two images and you 329 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: get more of a kind of feeling or something. And 330 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: then again the recipe isn't right there. You've got to 331 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 1: keep shuffling backwards and forwards. So I think that will 332 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 1: give people their ability to cook better food. Actually, but 333 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: one of the things we thought, I I felt having 334 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: got a teenage kid, is how they you know, giving 335 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: them a book may not be the most popular present 336 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: you buy a teenager, and so you know, knowing how 337 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: image lead they are, I like the idea of the 338 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: fact it is almost like scrolling through Instagram, where you 339 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: are getting a lot of images that are just mixed up, 340 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 1: and it's up to you how long you stay on 341 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: a picture. And then if you know, often some of 342 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: the pictures you rest upon are actually not the food, 343 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: and you're like, I like that picture of a telephone, 344 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 1: but I don't know why. Or you might hover over 345 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,479 Speaker 1: a picture of as cream in a old and things 346 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: I want to make that. But then also at the end, 347 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: you've got all the colors. So even if you just 348 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 1: look at the book just because you like the colors, 349 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: it feels like it's you can use it in many ways. 350 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: But for me, I was interested in trying to get 351 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: a teenager to enjoy it or to to want to 352 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: own it as well. And I thought, you know, maybe 353 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: that that element of image image image was might just 354 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: get them to pick it up. Hi, I'm Monica. I'm 355 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: a waitress at the River Cafe. I have the cookbook 356 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 1: at home. We only just got it, so i haven't 357 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: cooked from it, but I'm hoping that when I do 358 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 1: have a couple of weeks spare, that I can make 359 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: the potatoes from it. Next to each of the pages, 360 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: there's sort of a picture of kind of a visual comparisons. 361 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: As I flicked through the book, I like the stairwell 362 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: next to the Paranoma tarp. I think that the pair 363 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: and Almontae is a transporting experience like a stairwell. I 364 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: think when a lot of people come to the River Cafe, 365 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 1: they really look forward to their desserts. I think the 366 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: three probably most popular are the Paranorma Talk, the Lamon Talk, 367 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: and the Chocolate Nemesis. I used Cope books a lot. 368 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: I think what makes the River Cafe some of the 369 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 1: recipes so special is that they are accessible. One of 370 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: the beauties of this book. And I think it was 371 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: a challenge because you remember, we had all the photographs, 372 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: and then how do we segue from these photographs into 373 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: the recipes, you know, how do we do that? We 374 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: had black and white and white and black, and we 375 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 1: had and then one day you said two words to us, 376 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: and it was baracous airport. We used to have a 377 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: client in Madrid and used to have to go to 378 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: Madrid probably twice week to come a month, and I 379 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: used to not like going to the meetings, but I 380 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: and I just really loved the airport and just loved 381 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,719 Speaker 1: landing and seeing the rainbow colors on the stanchions as 382 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: you as you came in. Just always always sort of 383 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 1: stayed with me for a really long time. So then 384 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: when we came to the Rainbow Kings, all sort of 385 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,640 Speaker 1: came together and we actually used photographs and Richard's reference 386 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: points for those colors. We've done the images, and we've 387 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: done the cover, and we were trying to do the layout, 388 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: and then we were sitting in the private room. And 389 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: remember and we were just talking about something I can't 390 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: in the book didn't quite come together. We couldn't put 391 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 1: a finger on what was missing it for like, had 392 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 1: all this visual stuff, there's great recipes, but this somehow 393 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 1: it was a bit of a disconnect. And we were 394 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: just talking about someone was being in Spain. Ruth was 395 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: talking about Madrid Airport and how Richard designed it with 396 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: the color walk through different color zones. And then we 397 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: were like, maybe we should do that with the book. 398 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: And we didn't know whether it would work or not 399 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: because there's no ware testing it. So we did know 400 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: whether there will be enough creep of the color into 401 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: the edges of the pages so that we would be 402 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: able to make a rainbow out of all the text 403 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: pages on the edge, because we like to paint the 404 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: edges of books normally. UM. And when we discovered that 405 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: we couldn't for budgetary reasons then and the fact that 406 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 1: we were we were, yes, we've extended the time quite significantly. UM. 407 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: We were really hoping that this this rainbow would appear. 408 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: It was just so fun and it just thought, oh, 409 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: this is maybe what it needs, because you know, it 410 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: is also meant to be like a fun book, you know, 411 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: and then it just brought it together. It felt like 412 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: that was quite nice at the end. And so let's 413 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: talk about the back of the book. I always say 414 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: that the recipes from the writing of it were it's 415 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,959 Speaker 1: a book more verbs than adjectives. So it's mixed or 416 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: whisk bake, you know, plate serve, it's all. It's very 417 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: it's very verbal, isn't it that you have a verb 418 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: saying what you have to do, not what you have 419 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: to sort of think about that came from the fact 420 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: that you, with your chefs constantly craft these recipes to 421 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: be as instructive as possible without being superfluous. There's no 422 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: It is utility in the fact that it's it's very 423 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: very it's it's well crafted so that everything is is 424 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: done with the least amount of words to do give 425 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: the maximum effect. And I think that's a real skill 426 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: in itself. That's a kind of book that you could 427 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 1: take off to college and just have it in your 428 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 1: in a repertoire of just recipes are so easy that 429 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: you can take them with you through your young adult 430 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: life as well or as a beginner. I suppose in 431 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: this day age where you can get so many meals 432 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: delivered so easily, or but you know, these are like 433 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: ready meals, you know, ready for your teenager to take 434 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: to college with them. My favorite thing about the book 435 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: is the fact that, you know, is the physical book, 436 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: the fact that it's a book. It's not you know, 437 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: it's obviously completely visual, but it's not an line thing. 438 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: And of course you know we're all cookbook fans, but 439 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: this one, with the soft cover and the way it's bound, 440 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: it just feels really nice in the hands. So I 441 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: think my favorite thing about the book is the physical form, 442 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: because it's soft, so that feels quite good. I like 443 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: the fact that it reminds me of the restaurant in 444 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 1: many ways, because it's not just about the food, is 445 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: it because the restaurants about the design and the color 446 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: and the people and the way it makes you feel 447 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: when you walk through the door. I think that book 448 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: is very much not one thing. It's many things, and 449 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: it feels a bit like where the River Cafe is today. Also, 450 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: having been involved with the production of a few books, 451 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: now um, this is the one that I just you know, 452 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: having you know, we've lived with it for a couple 453 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: of years, I'm just happy to keep picking it up 454 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: and keep looking through it and scrolling through it, you know, 455 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: really enjoy it. And I think, I mean Anthony and Stephanie, 456 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: the designers are just unparalleled. Yeah, I was going to 457 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 1: say that is a very good example, isn't. It's incredibly 458 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: long process and I think we did a hundred and 459 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: eighties six different versions of this book. But I will 460 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 1: I will say when we were very young designers, we 461 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: went to a lecture given by Milton Glazer, the probably 462 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: most famous graphic design of all time, and he showed 463 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: us his work, and everybody was an auditorium of a 464 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: designer is sitting there in awe this man, and he said, 465 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: I'll just give you one piece of advice. It's the 466 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: only work for people you like. And at the end 467 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: of the day, that's a piece we've taken it, and 468 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: we only ever work for people we like. I think 469 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: this is I can't remember said we say it's our 470 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: twelve or thirteenth or whatever coup book. But I don't 471 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: think I've ever given a book, and they've all been 472 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 1: beautiful books, but I don't think I've ever handed a 473 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 1: book to someone and said, look at the printing. Look 474 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 1: at the quality of the printing in this book. I 475 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: usually say, look at the you know, of course I do. 476 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: I talked about the colors, and I talked about the 477 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: juxtaposition and everything we tried to do to inspire children 478 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: to cook. But what really and you really blew me away. 479 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: And you did tell me this on the telephone quite 480 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: a few times, and we spoke that you were preparing 481 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: this book to be printed in the most rigorous way. 482 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: And I know that you worked with the printers, you 483 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: worked with someone who you felt with. You know, I 484 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: would say this book get the Nobel Prize for printing. 485 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: I do really think that on matt paper to see 486 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: the qualities. Do you do you feel that way? I 487 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 1: do think it's just And what did you do Stephanie's rigor? Again, 488 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: there are there are things that you, you, as designed 489 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: as you, you mustn't let go of. And some of 490 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 1: those is some of those are the process of preparing 491 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: the materials in the best way you can. And I 492 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 1: think we start off like recording the beginning material is 493 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 1: always really important. Matthews. Pictures are beautiful, pictures are beautifully lit, 494 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,719 Speaker 1: They're so exquisite, and we get beautiful files to convert 495 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: those files is a challenge, and the first couple of 496 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: tranches of files we got through, we're not we're not right. 497 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: But Matthew went through individually and adjusted every single one, 498 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 1: and then the next step we got through or a 499 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: hundred times better. But it's it's again. It is this 500 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 1: doing things over the wire, doing things by zoom, doing 501 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: things digitally where you're not sitting in a room with people. 502 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: It's very hard to understand. There's lots of ways of 503 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: interpreting the same material, but Matthew is the person to 504 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: interpret it because his picture, so he knew how he 505 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 1: wanted them printed. It's the food, it's the cooks, it's 506 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 1: the restaurant, it's the designers, it's the photographer, it's Ruthie. 507 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: I think you can see everybody in that book, everyone 508 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: that was involved. I don't think you can forget Richard 509 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: in this. You know, my first time I ever met 510 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: him when he said that thing he said Ruthie. I 511 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: got paraphrasing because I can't remember exactly, but I think 512 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: it's in the film that we made. Ruthie is a 513 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: very good cook, and I'm very good at eating. You know, 514 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: there's this everyone's every every I can't cook, but I 515 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: can eat, and so everybody, whether they were actively involved 516 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: or they were heavily influencing what was going on, will 517 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: all involved. And that brings me more joy than any 518 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: of it, that we all got to do it together. 519 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, I think that Richard loved 520 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: the River Cafe, he loved food, he loved you, he 521 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: loved your work, and I know that he would have 522 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: loved this book. Thank you, Matthew, My pleasure. The River 523 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: Cafe Look Book is now available in bookshops and online. 524 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: It has over one hundred recipes, beautifully illustrated with photographs 525 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,479 Speaker 1: from the renowned photographer Matthew Donaldson. The book has fifty 526 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: delicious and easy to prepare recipes, including a host of 527 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: River Cafe classics that have been specially adapted for new cooks. 528 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: The River Cafe Look Book Recipes for Cooks of all ages. 529 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: Ruthie's Table four is a production of I Heart Radio 530 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: and Adami Studios. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, 531 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 532 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.