1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Pie. Well, yeah, like of dolphins, but in this case 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: also of casts, a cast of pods, for example, like 3 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: Attorneys General podcast. I'm Robert Evans. This is Behind the Bastards, 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: a show where we talked about I do have a 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: lot of podcasts, thank you, Jamie. As you might notice 6 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: in my show about talking about bad people, I have guests, 7 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: and today that guest is Madam Jamie Loftiest. I'll take that. Yeah, 8 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: that lofts lofts US. Mhmm, lofts US. Yeah. That's when 9 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: there's more than one of us in the room, it's 10 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 1: loss and and and then there's Sophie's Lichtman. It's it's 11 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: all we should Attorney's General. All plurals is what? What 12 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: the statement I'm coming into. It's a complicated language. But 13 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: but beautiful, Jamie, how are you doing? Uh? You know? 14 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: All things sooner? Good? I learned question. I have HPV. 15 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: I have HPV. I learned, Oh, I have HPV. Sorry, No, 16 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: it's fine. It's a it's a fun it's a fun 17 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: middle non threatening HPV. Uh that yeah, first, it was 18 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: a fun. It's nice to have some suspense in your 19 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: life that is, like, you know, not a little less 20 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: existential where They're like, is it good HPV or bad 21 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: HPV And they're like, well, it's you know, it's it's 22 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: middling HPV. Well, I'm going to ask our listeners. I'm 23 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: gonna ask all of our listeners when this episode drops 24 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: to tag us on Twitter and tell us if you 25 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 1: have HPV as well have HPV. It's just fill our 26 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: Twitter mentions. Individual threads don't comment on the episode like 27 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: tag us individually each time. Absolutely over Walmart twitters everyone 28 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: that so many people have HPV and I know it's 29 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: so but my my dad did see my Twitter post 30 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: about it, and then he was just he was shocked. 31 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: He thought HPV was really going to get me, and 32 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: then I just had to tell him, it's not going 33 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: to get This is We're going to raise awareness about 34 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: HPV by overwhelming and making our Twitter's unusable for several 35 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: days with a lot of people discussing their presence or 36 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: lack thereof of of HPV. Um. So that's my since 37 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: between the last Updade the last episode I was on 38 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: in this I I learned I at hpd I don't 39 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: think I got it. Then I just went to a 40 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 1: ganacologist for the first time in four years because it's 41 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: good to have health insurance. I've been to a gynecologist 42 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,679 Speaker 1: in a long time. Well, that's you really got to 43 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: get your pap. Every couple of every comple careful. Huh, 44 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: paps and bagels both need schmir swish sailed it with 45 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: the swish. All right, well we should talk. We should 46 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: do the thing that is our job to do. Yeah, 47 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: the only thing that matters in this world. What's fun 48 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: about this episode, Jamie, is that this is an episode 49 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: about disasters and how human beings respond to them, and 50 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: we're recording it right before the election, and by the 51 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: time it drops, the entire world could be a radically 52 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: different place. And that's fun. I want to I want 53 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: to listen back to this episode later and feel absolutely 54 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: sick to my stomach. Yeah, it's gonna be awesome. It's 55 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: gonna be so good. I can't wait. We're talking today 56 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: about elite panic. Oh yeah, that's the bastard of today. 57 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: So I want to start our story are our episode 58 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: today with the story of a man named one Peel Piva. 59 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: He was born on September in Kazappa, Paraguay, and while 60 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: he is most definitely a bastard, he's not the bastard 61 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: of our episode. We're gonna start with him though. Um 62 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: One grew up working class in a town two fifty 63 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: kilometers or fake miles southeast of Paraguay's capital was his now. 64 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: His dad was a bus driver, and he started working 65 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: at age sixteen selling tickets on his father's bus. His 66 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: family also owned a butcher's shop, and he worked there 67 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: as a young adult until he had enough money to 68 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: open a small butcher's shop of his own in the capital, 69 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: which is again scion now, which I'm I probably pronouncing 70 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: somewhat wrong. Well, you famously pronounced everything, but I famously 71 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: pronounced everything right. I know. By the time he was thirty, 72 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: he owned two butcher shops uh, and through frugal money 73 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: management and a keen sense of finances, One was able 74 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: to open his first grocery store in nineteen eighty five. 75 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 1: He named it Kua Bolognios, which means well of water 76 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: and was a reference to a mythical healing spring near 77 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: his hometown. Now One's business was successful, but his growing 78 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: wealth was met by a growth in the stingy tendencies 79 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: that had helped him rise above his humble origins. He 80 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 1: kept his own accounts, and he paid suppliers himself. He 81 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: forced his employees to work under what one local paper 82 00:04:55,680 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: described as an enslaving regime. H yeah, so that's not 83 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: you know, nice. You get one butcher shop and look 84 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: what happens. It's funny too, because like the positive articles 85 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: that you'd read about them would call him like, say 86 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: he came from a peasant background. But it's like, I mean, 87 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: I guess, like you're not rich just because your family 88 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: owns a butcher's shop, but like you're not like, I 89 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 1: don't know, peasant seems weird for a family that is 90 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: a business owner. I don't know. Yeah, Like, not not 91 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: that there's anything wrong with owning a butcher's shop, but 92 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: like peasant is anyway. Whatever. One kept his office behind 93 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: the cashiers so he could watch them at all times 94 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: through the large glass windows that he had installed and 95 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: intervene at once if he was unhappy with their performance, 96 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: which he frequently was. Um, it's kind of a dick boss. 97 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: You know. We've all I mean, I guess most people 98 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: who have worked in the service industry have had a 99 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: boss like that, really unnecessarily obsessed with your what you're 100 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: doing at all times. Now Quotlannos became a modest chain 101 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: of supermarkets, with two full grocery stores and one hyper 102 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: market just kind of similar to them, all multiple restaurants, shops, 103 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: you know, a bunch of you can hold a shipload 104 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: of people, like a really big grocery store, right, like 105 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: a normal grocery store in the United States, but big, 106 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: you know at the time. Again we're talking like the 107 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: eighties here. Yeah. His company's slogan was Quablan, synonymous with 108 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: quality and low prices. One whose nickname was apparently the Baby, 109 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: expanded his business and to a Yeah what, Jamie, he's 110 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: the baby. He's the He's the baby, and you gotta 111 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: love him. Why is there any reason? I don't know. 112 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I've only found out that baby unless you're 113 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: the rapper. I think that's what people call him. The baby. 114 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: The baby is from Dinosaurs, that TV show, right, Yeah, 115 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: the baby that come on continue. I know the baby 116 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,359 Speaker 1: from so what he's called the baby. And then he's like, 117 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: but don't ask why I'm called the baby. No, just 118 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: only a lot of so for because of the story 119 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: we're about to tell is primarily there's some international stories 120 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: because it's wild, but most of the good stories were local, 121 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: and so I had to Google translate them, and I 122 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: was not able to find anything else about why he 123 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: was called the baby. But his nickname was the baby. Okay, 124 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: the baby. I'm gonna struggle getting past this. But but 125 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: but I'm here, I'm here. Yeah, So he's the baby. Uh. 126 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: And he expands his business into a joint stock company. 127 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: So he makes it into a corporation with like stock 128 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: and shareholders and ship and he starts soliciting investments. Now, 129 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: the number of Yukwa Bolanos hypermarkets increased after this point, 130 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: because now they have a bunch of funding. In two 131 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: thousand one, one opened his largest store yet, Yukuo Bolanos Botanico, 132 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: named for its proximity to the Capital Botanical Gardens. This 133 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: massive new building was twelve thousand square feet with a 134 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: dining area that was capable of seating six d people alone. 135 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: So very big fucking store. He's he's it's a big baby. 136 00:07:55,240 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: It's a big old baby. It's old botanical baby. Yeah. 137 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: So yeah, he gets he gets things going on, um 138 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: and everything's yeah, he's making a lot of money. He's 139 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: got a bunch of stores. His net worth climbs to 140 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: more than eight million dollars um. And at this point, 141 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: you know, he's too busy and has too many employees 142 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: to watch over each of them. And like the slightly 143 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: creepy stalking way that he had before, this caused him 144 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: a lot of anxiety because he was always terrified that 145 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: his employees might steal from him. To ensure that the yeah, 146 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go now, to ensure that the crowning jewel 147 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: of his empire didn't lose a single centavo that was 148 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: due to it, uh One appointed the only man he 149 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: could trust to the job of stalking his employees, his son, 150 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: Victor Daniel. Now Victor had always been something of a 151 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: disappointment to one. The father had hoped his son might 152 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: one day play for the national soccer team, but Victor 153 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: tended towards obesity and was not at all athletically inclined. Still, 154 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: he was able to earn some amount of his father's 155 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: pride by being every bit the miser and tyrannical enforcer 156 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: that Juan had been. One journalist described him as tough 157 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: on employees and stingy on suppliers, but they go him. 158 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: The little baby, the baby's baby, the baby baby, the baby. Yeah, 159 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: let's let's I've settled the son of the baby. Yeah. Yeah, 160 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,959 Speaker 1: uh so. Stingy was kind of an ongoing theme in 161 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: the growing empire of one Peel Piva and his son. 162 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: While the Ukua Bolanos Botanical was a massive structure in 163 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: the pride of his corporation, corners were cut at every 164 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: single stage of construction. The ducts from the grill in 165 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: the kitchen, the bakery and the rotisserie did not vent outside. Instead, 166 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: they pumped smoke and gas into a chamber between the 167 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: ceiling and the roof of the building. The roof had 168 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: no hold on. Yeah, okay, okay, So there's just there's 169 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: just a pollution room. There's a fire room. Yeah, there's 170 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: a there's a room to cause a fire. Yes, there 171 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 1: there is a poison room. They like like our recording 172 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: studio in our in our in our beloved place, that 173 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: we can't record it anymore because of the plague. There's 174 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: a poison room in the Yukua Bolanos Botanic. Oh miss 175 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: poison room. I miss it too. I miss it too. 176 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: As soon as this plague is over, I'm gonna throw 177 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: more poison into it room. I'm ready. Yeah, yeah, We're 178 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: all ready for the poison room, a workplace poison room. 179 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: Now I feel more connected. Yeah, except for in there's 180 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: they're venting all of the gas and smoke from their 181 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: many ovens cooking for tens of thousands of people on 182 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: a weekly basis. Uh, into this room. And the roof 183 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: of the room has no wind extractors. Also, you know else, 184 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: they don't have Jamie, what smoke alarms? No? No, no, no, 185 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: what do you have smoke alarms in your death trap? 186 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 1: There's no sprinklers either. All of the stop cocks on 187 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: the fire hoses were closed. Um yeah, so again, absolutely 188 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: no safety measures taken in this building meant to hold 189 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: thousands of customers. Yeah, okay, okay, okay. So it's the 190 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: Titanic of grocery stars. Yes, it is the Titanic of 191 00:10:55,920 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: They no lifeboats on this business. Uh oh god, it's amazing. 192 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: It's so fucking funny. It's not because what's about to 193 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: happen is one of the worst things I've ever heard about. 194 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: One skimped on any emergency training that might have prepared 195 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: his employees in the event of a fire as well, 196 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: because if you're not going to take any other preparations 197 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: for a fire. Why would you even think about it? 198 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: You know, start now, Yeah, that would be speaking it 199 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 1: into being Jamie. It's like the secret. You know, if 200 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 1: you think about it, it will come to you. You 201 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,599 Speaker 1: don't think of fire. Yeah, I don't want to manifest 202 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: a gigantic, devastating grocery store fire. Yeah. Yeah, that's why 203 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: I cut out the seat belts on all of my cars. 204 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: You know, absolutely, Otherwise you're just inviting t You're inviting 205 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: an accident. In exactly, I don't want to have an 206 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: accident when I'm drunk driving my Forerunner through a trailer park. No, 207 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: And that's why you've never gotten into trouble that way. 208 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: And that's why I've never gotten into trouble that way. 209 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: I've been saying that for years. I've been saying that 210 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: for years, shouting it at police officers chasing me in 211 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: my Forerunners for years, as you drunk drive your your 212 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: fore Runner. I admire It's it's fairfully admired. Yeah. Now, 213 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: so yeah, one takes again like not like aggressively takes 214 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: no safety precautions for his massive building meant to cook 215 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: and hold thousands of people. Um, yeah, I mean obviously 216 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: like if he had done things like train his employees 217 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: given to have some sort of fire safety plan, that 218 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 1: would have distracted from the time they could spend working, 219 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: which would be the same as them stealing from him. 220 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: And one is not going to allow that to happen. 221 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: Show them included a hose or two. These are all 222 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: unnecessary time sucks disabled the hoses that there were, Like, 223 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: that's so funny, more work than not, Like that's so aggressive, okay, okay, 224 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: So he's begging for this leading for an explosion. Now, 225 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: the question, Jamie, of how One's company was able to 226 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: get away with blatant violations of local fire codes. It's 227 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: an important one because again, Paraguay is a country they 228 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: have laws about making death traps, right, you're not supposed to. 229 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: So there's a good question like how did he get 230 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: to make a death trap? And it may have had 231 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: something to do with the fact that he had a 232 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: cozy friendship with one Carlos was Mossy, the president of 233 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: Paraguay from in two thousand two. Was Mosy was convicted 234 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: of stealing six million dollars from the government's Social Welfare 235 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: Institute and diverting it to his personal bank account. So 236 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: the odds are quite good that one bribed him to 237 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: make concerns over the building safety go away, right, Like 238 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: the guy who we know was crooked as ship probably 239 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 1: was being crooked as ship. And one Carlos was like, Oh, 240 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: that's the baby. Yeah, you gotta love of especially if 241 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: you paid you really totally thousands of dollars. Yeah, baby, 242 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: son a baby. Let them do whatever they want. Let 243 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: him do whatever they want. I often say that about 244 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: babies and about owners of grocery stores. We've given enough 245 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: passes to the baby. So unfortunately, Jamie, I don't know 246 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: if you're aware of this, but you cannot bribe the 247 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: laws of physics. Uh yet, I'm working on it. Life 248 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: finds a way, as Ian Malcolm said. So for three years, 249 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: the many ovens of the Qua Bolognas Botanica ran all 250 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: day long, venting smoke and gas up into the roof 251 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: without any way for it to escape. Eventually, more than 252 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: nine thousand cubic meters of flammable gases had accumulated up there, 253 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: turning the whole roof into of the massive complex into 254 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: a ticking time bomb. And then, sometime in the summer 255 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: of two thousand four, one of the buildings, ovens got plugged, 256 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: and timely action was not taken to unplug it, like 257 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: fix the jam, and unbeknownst to Victor, a fire burned 258 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: behind the obstruction in the ovens. They weren't cleaning the ovens. 259 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: There's a blockage and there's imber's burning behind the blockage, 260 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: so they don't realize that there's embers burning behind it. 261 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: And yeah, obviously, like so this fire catches on all 262 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: of the grease, and the grease starts to burn behind 263 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: the obstruction this oven, and it sends in burns into 264 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: the sea. Yeah, no one sees it. They think the 265 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: oven is just blocked and dead. But behind the obstruction 266 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: there are embers burn naing that catch onto the grease 267 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: and embers start to float up into the ceiling, which 268 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: is again an enormous bomb. Yeah. Yeah. On the morning 269 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: of August one, one of those embers finally ignited the 270 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: pocket of gas in the ceiling. It happened while more 271 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: than a thousand people were inside the business, Most of 272 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: them were mothers, many of whom had their children with them. 273 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: One male customer who was present later recalled, we were 274 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: entering the supermarket when there was an explosion I could 275 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: see how bodies, especially little ones, flew through the air, arms, legs. 276 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: Another customer later told press it was raining fire when 277 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: I was finishing to pay at the cash register. By miracle, 278 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: I got out before they closed the doors, foreshadowing of 279 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: what's about. Yeah, that's what we're about, the talk the door. 280 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, great question, Jamie on that horrible August morning. 281 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: Victor Daniel Piva, who's again one son and the guy 282 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: who's job it is to make sure nobody steals from 283 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: the baby one son. Victor had arrived late for work 284 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: because he had been buying his father tickets for an 285 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: upcoming soccer match. It's very likely saved his life because 286 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: of where his office was located and where the explosion happened. 287 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: But if it did save his life, his survival damned 288 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: many more people. Once he arrived on scene within minutes 289 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: of the explosion, Victor gave his first order to his 290 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: security guards, don't let them out without paying. Oh my god, 291 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: why holy shit? And the security guards didn't say no. No. 292 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: It's kind of a we could talk about Germans here, um, 293 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: but I think everybody knows, like the thing that people 294 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: do when they're given orders. Yeah. By the son of 295 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: the baby. Yeah. The victor was concerned that the hundreds 296 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: of customers attempting to escape the Yuko Bologna's botanic a 297 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: death trap wouldn't hang outing thing were leaving the flaming building. 298 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: He was worried they were going to leave with arms 299 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: full of groceries and consumer goods. Victor Jesus Christ. So 300 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: the idea that to Victor that his dad might get 301 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: angry at him for letting customers get out with free 302 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 1: goods of his exploding supermarket was more important to him 303 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: than the thoughts of the lives of the thousand people 304 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: still inside. So he ordered his guards to close and 305 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: bar all ten exits to the store. Jesus Christ. Okay, 306 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: And they do, and they do that, they do the 307 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 1: ship out of that, okay. So I'm gonna quote from 308 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: a journalist in the local newspaper called Nacion quote. Outside 309 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: in front of the hypermarket, Victor Daniel Piva could not 310 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: stop sweating. He called insistently on the phone for the 311 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: employees to get the money out of the boxes while 312 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: dozens of people scratched the windows to get out. Oh 313 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: my god, it's pretty bad, right, this is like so 314 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: this is bad writing. This is horrible. If you made 315 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 1: a if you made a bad guy in like a 316 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: movie or a TV do this, people would be like, 317 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: nobody would like. And then you're like, no, no, no no, no, wait, 318 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: and they call the boss the baby and Jesus that 319 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: steal while the building is actively exploding. Yes, okay, it's 320 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: going to get so much worse, Jamie. But let's pause 321 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,239 Speaker 1: for just a moment. Let's pause for just a just 322 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: a split second, with that horrible vision in our heads 323 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: of people scratching on the windows of a burning grocery store. 324 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: And let's have a little conversation about how money affects 325 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: the human brain. Okay, yeah, you want to do that. 326 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: You like that? Like talking about this. I love talking 327 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: about how money affects the human brain. Is my It's 328 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: my favorite thing to do. Is my kink me too. Actually, 329 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: there's been a lot of fun studies on this. For 330 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: today's purposes, I want to start with a series of 331 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: experiments conducted in two thousand six by Dr Kathleen Vose 332 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: of the Carlson School of Management at the University of Minnesota. 333 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: She led a group of Actually, let me mispronounced Minnesota 334 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: because I probably mispronounced something in Paraguay and I want 335 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 1: to be fair Mini sati uh in Minnisati and the 336 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: University of Minnesoti. Now she led a group of researchers 337 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: to conduct nine experiments, all of which primed half of 338 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: their students with thoughts of money. And I'm gonna quote 339 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: from Live Science about how they primed people to think 340 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: about money. A few methods were used to get the 341 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: participants thinking about money, and some experiments a stack of 342 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: play monopoly money was within a subject's peripheral view, or 343 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: a subject would unscramble word phrases dealing with money, while 344 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 1: in others, a participant would sit in front of a 345 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: computer screen savers showing pictures of floating money. So one 346 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: and again, they were not telling the people who were 347 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: being who are the subjects of the experiment, that money 348 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: had anything to do with it, like they were solving puzzles, basically, 349 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: and the experiment found that the group who had been 350 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: primed to think about money persisted longer at solving difficult 351 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: puzzles than subjects who weren't. And that's probably not so surprising, 352 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: right The thought of money makes you willing to kind 353 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: of like work harder long or at an otherwise meaningless task. Um, 354 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: And that's like not unsettling, right, It's pretty natural, like normal. Yeah. 355 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: The other experiments were a bit more unsettling. Quote. In 356 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,199 Speaker 1: one test, a participant sat in a lab filling out 357 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 1: a questionnaire when a supposed student walked into the room 358 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: and said, can you come over here and help me? 359 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: She explained that she was an undergraduate student and needed 360 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: help coding data sheets, each of which would take five minutes. 361 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 1: Some of the participants didn't help at all. Of those 362 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,719 Speaker 1: said the control group volunteered an average of forty two 363 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: point five minutes of their time, whereas the money group 364 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 1: gave about twenty five minutes. That's interesting. Another experiment gave 365 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: participants the opportunity to lend a helping hand in a 366 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,479 Speaker 1: situation requiring no skills. In a staged accident, a random 367 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: person walked through a room where a participant sat filling 368 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 1: out a questionnaire and spilled a bunch of pencils. The 369 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: money participants picked up far fewer pencils than the controls. 370 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: To understand how money affects in her personal relationships, the 371 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: scientists told each participant they would have a conversation to 372 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: acquaint themselves with another participant while the experimenter went to 373 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: retrieve the other subject. The participant was to set up 374 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: two chairs for the engagement. The subjects in the money 375 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: group put more physical distance between themselves and new acquaintances 376 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: compared with control subjects. Again, interesting stuff, Interesting stuff. Now, 377 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: the right up I found made a point of note 378 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: in that the experimental results showed no difference as a 379 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: result of socioeconomic status or gender of the participants. It 380 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 1: seems like just pretty robust. The only real difference was 381 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: who had been primed to think about money, which is 382 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: again interesting. Now, this is just one study, obviously, so 383 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: let's talk about some other studies because a lot of 384 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: people have all all monopoly based studies are very funny 385 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: and terrified because people just turned into cartoon villains. Would 386 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 1: give it a money. It's fun because the next study 387 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: we're about to talk about is a U. C. Berkeley 388 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: experiment that involved a hundred pairs of strangers playing monopoly, 389 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 1: with one player getting double the money of the other. 390 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote from tea, Yeah it's fun. Yeah, 391 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote from a ted write up of the 392 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 1: psychologist behind the study. A guy named Paul piff quote, 393 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,719 Speaker 1: the rich players move their pieces more loudly, banging them 394 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: around the board, and displayed a type of enthusiastic gestures 395 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 1: that you see from a football player who's just scored 396 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: a touchdown. They even eight more pretzels from a bowl 397 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 1: setting off to the side than the players had been 398 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: assigned to the poor condition, and started to become ruder 399 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: to their opponents. Moreover, the rich players understanding of the 400 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: situation was completely warped. After a game, they talked about 401 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: how they'd earned their success even though the game was 402 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: blatantly rigged and their wind should have been seen as inevitable. 403 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: And that's really really incredible insight into how the mind 404 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: makes sense of advantage. Pif says, yeah, it rocks. Did 405 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 1: you see Did you see the videos of it? The 406 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: videos of it are very, very funny. It's just a 407 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: bunch of like scrawny college freshmen being like, well, you know, 408 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 1: I did it, so that's why. And then just like crunch, crunch, crunch. 409 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:43,439 Speaker 1: It's it's brutal, but I love that ship. Another study 410 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: in California, which is the sensible place to go if 411 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: you want to study rich people being assholes, looked into 412 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: I find this one really interesting. It looked into how 413 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 1: likely drivers of expensive cars were to stop at crosswalks 414 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 1: for pedestrians, which they're legally required to do in California, 415 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: and they found that again, I find this very fascinating, 416 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: the more expensive the car, the less likely the driver 417 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: was to stop for pedestrians. No one driving, not a 418 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,120 Speaker 1: single person. Because they studied the different categories of cars 419 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: and they like categorize them by their cost, Not a 420 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 1: single person driving cars in the least expensive car category 421 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: failed to stop at a crosswalk. Almost almost fifty of 422 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 1: drivers and expensive cars did. Ye. Corollas, Yeah, like, obviously, 423 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: if you drive, you know that somebody in a thirty 424 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,479 Speaker 1: five year old fucking Corolla is going to let you 425 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: in on the highway and someone driving an Infinity is 426 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: going to run you and your children off the road 427 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: if that's what it takes to get out out of 428 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: the exit three seconds faster. And then if you see 429 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: someone in a Tesla, they'll run you over, run your 430 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: family over, and then ask for thank you. My personal 431 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: favorite thing I've seen and just of the joys of 432 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: living in West Los Angeles for a while, was to 433 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: a Lamborghini rereinding a lenother Lamborghini. It was a real 434 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 1: let them fight moment. This I forgot. You lived in 435 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,719 Speaker 1: like the worst possible area for for pedestrians to just 436 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: get run over by tech millionaires. It was great. I 437 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: had a lot of fun jogging. Oddly enough, I will 438 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: I will say this, not all rich people this way 439 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: because dogging I had. I had Sean Penn uh would 440 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: drive through my neighborhood a couple of times, and he 441 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: was always very good about stopping and giving people time 442 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: to move. So I'll say that about Sean pin problematic man, 443 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: was polite driver. He congrats to Sean Penn for stopping. 444 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: Not congrats to Sean Penn for hitting women and marrying 445 00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: Val Kilmer's daughter. I love that marrying Val Kilmer's daughter 446 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: is an equal crime to the violence violence against women 447 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 1: is the is the worst crime. Marry Val Kilver's twenty 448 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: five year old daughter is. It's also not right to do. 449 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: It's not you know what it is right to do. 450 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: He doesn't run down joggers. I'll give him that. But 451 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: but but it's a it's ad time, it's sad time. 452 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: It's sad time, all right, and we're returned It was 453 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: really fun because I did live in a very nice neighborhood. 454 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: It was right on the edge of of Santa Monica. 455 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: And the only way I could afford to because my 456 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: rent was actually very cheap. I pay like nine bucks 457 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: a month, which is cheap for that. Yeah, it's because 458 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: the building was was very illegal. The landlord had illegally 459 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: subdivided at the half of our power was the like 460 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: came the another unit, and half of their power came 461 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 1: from our house, so like when power would go out, 462 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: we'd both lose half of our like it was we 463 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,479 Speaker 1: had the city coming once and be like, you realize that, 464 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: like you could sue your landlord because of all of 465 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: the dangerous fire hazards in this apartment, because of how 466 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: illegally she subdivided it. And we said, yes, but here's 467 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: how much we pay in rent And they said, oh, 468 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:25,360 Speaker 1: I get it. Take your life in your hands every day. 469 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, I would risk my life too for 470 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 1: a place that cheap. Fuck God, what a great country, God, 471 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: what the best best place in the world. No notes, 472 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: Yeah over Sean Penn. I hate Sean Penn. I'm glad 473 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: he's a terrible person. The only way he could be 474 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: worse as if he ran you over with his car. 475 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: So there's that. So you upset, Jamie. I'm sorry, Jane, 476 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: it's okay. I just I hate Sean Penn. Yeah, and 477 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: speak of you know what, Sean Pinn is a rich person. 478 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: Let's keep talking about how bad that is for you. 479 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: So uh yeah, again another study, because again, you know, 480 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 1: reading one of these studies, there's things to criticize, you 481 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: know about all of them, as there are with all studies. 482 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: You keep reading all of the many studies that have 483 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: been done on this, and they all make a very, 484 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: very consistent point. A two thousand ten study from UCSF 485 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: asked three D participants mixed between upper and lower income 486 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: individuals to analyze facial expressions of people in photos and 487 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,360 Speaker 1: emotions of people in mock interviews. Poor people were consistently 488 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: better at reading the emotions of others. But this is neat. 489 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 1: If upper class participants were told to imagine themselves in 490 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 1: the position of poorer people, it boosted their ability to 491 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: read other people's emotions. Oh yeah, interesting, right, that's fascinating 492 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: to me to really hold a rich person's hand to 493 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: get them to empathy. Now, imagine other people were capable 494 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 1: of feelings. I know this is gonna be hard for you. 495 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 1: Just it's just a creative experiment. Yeah, it's not real. 496 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: It's not real. The poor don't feel but imagine they did, 497 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 1: But imagine they Okay, So there's a lot more research 498 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 1: on of this type out there, if you're interested in 499 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: finding it. To conclude this portion of the episode, I'd 500 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: like to read one last quote from Dr Piff summarizing 501 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: a significant body of research into how wealth effects behavior. 502 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: That's kind of this guy's deal quote. As a person's 503 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: levels of wealth increase, their feelings of compassion and empathy 504 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: go down, and their feelings of entitlement, of deserving this, 505 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: and their ideology of self interest increases. M hm neat 506 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: huh net nets. Now, let's return to the equabolagno botanica 507 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: to the supermarket actively in flames with its doors boarded 508 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: u or yeah, yeah and locked, while Victor in his 509 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: guards kept the doors barred and rescued the precious cash 510 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: from the registers. Again, he's an getting the cash out. Well, 511 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: he's preventing human beings from exiting. That is absertain, but 512 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: you have to imagine they're seizing the cash from the 513 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: hands of customers and employees who are on fire like. 514 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: People are literally describing paying being forced to pay for 515 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: their groceries while fire reigns from the ceiling. Guess it's 516 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: it's it's fucking wild. Yeah. So, while this goes on 517 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: for a while, and eventually the ground floor of the 518 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: supermarket collapses into an underground car park where dozens and 519 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: dozens of people were trying to flee in their vehicles. 520 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: Um and of course those people all burned to death. 521 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: The food court was completely engulfed in flames. A lot 522 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: of people were just incinerated. Cyanide gas given off by 523 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: toxic paint used on the building's roof because they used 524 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: poisonous paint that they weren't supposed to be using on 525 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: the building's roof, began to suffocate. Panic shoppers, the ones 526 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: who are closest to the doors and windows, started breaking 527 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: them with whatever they could find. People outside the supermarket 528 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: realized was happening and spring into action, gathering sticks and 529 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: poles to try to batter down the locked main entrance. 530 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, human beings who aren't pieces of ship do 531 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: attempt to come to the rescue of their fellow human beings. 532 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: As always, happens. We'll keep talking about. Liliana Hernandez, who 533 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: lived next door to the market, told reporters we couldn't 534 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: get inside and people couldn't get out. When the firefighters arrived, 535 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: they too were stymied by the locked doors of the 536 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: Yuqua Bolanos, and eventually they had to go into Liliana's 537 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: home and batter holes through the walls of her home 538 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: in order to get into the supermarket. By the time 539 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: they finally breached the building, there was little for them 540 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: to drag out but corpses. I'm a quote now from 541 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: a rite up in The Guardian. Some victims were found 542 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: hugging each other, one of them a woman with a 543 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: smile child in her arms. A firefighter told local radio 544 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: a disco opposite to the supermarket was being used as 545 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: a makeshift morgue. Overnight, army troops unloaded truckloads of wooden coffins. 546 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: Early today, tearful relative were filing into identify bodies. There 547 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: are no words for this, said Orlando Korea, weeping. After 548 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: identifying the corpse of his six month old nephew. He 549 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: then searched for his sister among the lines of charred bodies. 550 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: This is a moment of great anguish, said the Paraguayan President, 551 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: Nicanor Duarte, who declared three days of national mourning. Officials 552 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: said it was the worst tragedy in Paraguay since a 553 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: failed military insurrection in nineteen forty seven had left around 554 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,479 Speaker 1: eight thousand people dead. Francisco Barrios, who had been shopping 555 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: at the store but managed to escape, told of the 556 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: confusing scene minutes after the fire started, with people rushing 557 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: for the doors. There were sparks as if fireworks were 558 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: going off. He said. The store quickly caught fire and 559 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: filled with smoke, triggering total confusion. I lost my wife 560 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: and kids as I rushed to get out. Now I'm 561 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,479 Speaker 1: trying to find them. God. By the time the fires 562 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: were finally extinguished and the last charred corpse was identified, 563 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: at least four hundred and twenty four people had died. 564 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: That's about half of the folks who were in there. 565 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: Four hundred twenty four people. More than three hundred were injured. 566 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: Three quarters of the people in Yokua Bologno's Botanica at 567 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: the time of the fire failed to make it out 568 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: of the death trap of a market unharmed. Three quarters 569 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: of the people in there now obviously a nightmare of 570 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: the scale demands some sort of vengeance, and I immediately 571 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: turned to Wan and Victor Piva. Both father and son, 572 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 1: of course, denied that they had ordered the doors locked 573 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: and barred. Victor immediately blamed the store operations manager, Vincent A. 574 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 1: Ruise forgiving the order, since Ruise had died in the fire, 575 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: he was a pretty good escape can No. I was like, please, 576 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: don't say he blamed a person who burned up when 577 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 1: it was his fault. Holy shit, Yeah, it's it's it's 578 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't even know what to say. 579 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: It is. It's horrible, it's not good, it's that's I 580 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 1: can't even like wrap my head around that. That's and 581 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: and just like a store so obscenely large to have 582 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: no oversight is yeah, it's I it's pretty good, Jamie. 583 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: I know, like I say that, but like I was 584 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: fucking in tears reading some of these stories, like so 585 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: many little kids burnt to death in the arms of 586 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: their mothers trying to shield them from the flames, dozens 587 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: of them, like an out like like this is this 588 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: is like a war crime level tragedy. But it was 589 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: a supermarket fire, like like you could it couldn't be 590 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: a more unsuspecting group of people. And there you have 591 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: to imagine all like ordinary. I just I can't even 592 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: wrap my head around that that's so. And then they 593 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: and then they blamed someone that they had killed. Yeah, 594 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: it's like okay, it's honestly, I think to most people, 595 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: it is an incomprehensible level of evil, like and in fairness, 596 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 1: to most people who own supermarkets, it's an like you 597 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: have insurance, why are you It's like it's one thing 598 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 1: if you're like, you know, fucking big Oil did something 599 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,439 Speaker 1: like that, But it's a supermarket. I mean, I guess 600 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: Jack sounds a supermarket, but but super I don't think 601 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: of supermarket owners as supervillain. You're watching dying people pound 602 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: on the windows of your store as you rescue their cash, 603 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:30,359 Speaker 1: like it's amazing. I just the also just like the 604 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: level of brain dead, like, yeah, how does he think 605 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 1: he's going to get away with that? He's like, well, 606 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: at least I'll have escape money. At least I'll have 607 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 1: the scape money. It's it's it's super villain like cartoons supervillain, 608 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: Like honestly, not because the cartoon supervillain wouldn't do this, No, 609 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: they would, they could disappear Captain Planet villains had more nuance. 610 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: It's amazing. Um. Yeah, so these obviously they get charged 611 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: with gross negligence and a bunch of other crimes alongside 612 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: force rty. Guards from jail want issue to proposition to 613 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,800 Speaker 1: rebuild his supermarket and make the families of the victims 614 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: into shareholders. He also offered to give them jobs, which 615 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: some might call him mixed offer at best. Oh, he 616 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: really is like the world's dumbest person. There's God the 617 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: son that rich people are horrible, but the children of 618 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: rich people are worse because they don't they don't even 619 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: have a skill. It's that's fucking that's so. I can't 620 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: wrap my head around this story. This is so, it's 621 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 1: pretty fun. So Paraguayans were not enticed by the proposition 622 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 1: of a store to profit the families of the dead people. 623 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: They that's a very hardcore libertarian answer for like, well, 624 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: what if we just make a store that they can 625 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 1: profit from, that we build over the ashes of where 626 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: their loved ones died, and my supermarket fire could be 627 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:04,399 Speaker 1: a fun second act. Yeah, amazing, Yeah, it's the kind 628 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 1: of thing you do with other people aren't people to you, 629 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: you know, yes, uh so, yeah they obviously the people 630 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: of Paraguay of Socion were not enticed by this proposition. 631 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: They filled the streets of the capital with graffiti de 632 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 1: grning the pivos as murderers. In December of two thousand six, 633 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 1: one victor and one security guard were convicted of manslaughter, 634 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 1: receiving maximum sentences of five years. Several company shareholders had 635 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 1: been tried for negligence and they were all acquitted. This 636 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:39,320 Speaker 1: did not make people happy. And the citizens, Yeah, it's 637 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: are they killed four people? Are you kidding me? They 638 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 1: should be killed in the town square. Yeah, they should 639 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: be publicly executed, okay with that in this case, yeah, 640 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: the people of Asuncion, led by a family member of 641 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 1: the dead, immediately rioted through the streets, breaking things, lighting 642 00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,840 Speaker 1: police cars on fire. Doing totally justified it. Right, This 643 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: is absolutely the time to riot. Right. We can debate 644 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 1: over what justifies a riot, this sure does. This is 645 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: you know, this is the yardstick to use. Yeah, this, 646 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: this is like the clearest justification. I can imagine a 647 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: lot of things justify riots, but for sure, this you know, 648 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 1: uh yeah, so yeah, they rioted and Eventually, the government 649 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 1: was forced to retry the case because people lit enough 650 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,799 Speaker 1: cars on fire. Oh good, well that might be a lesson. 651 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: They're letting cars on accomplishes things. One could argue that, 652 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: you know, could I mean, it's it certainly did in 653 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 1: this case. You know, I like cars on fire in minecraft, 654 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: and it's really accomplished a lot locally. It got the 655 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,600 Speaker 1: job done here sort of h better than things have 656 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: been before. One was re sentenced to twelve years in prison, 657 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: victor to ten, the security guard to five, and one 658 00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: company shareholder was sentenced to two and a half years, which, yeah, 659 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 1: you know it's better. It's still like not how many 660 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 1: cars need to be set on fire to get a 661 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: reasonable sentence, Jesus exactly. The people of Paraguay, Yeah, they 662 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 1: had been agitating for a twenty five year sentence, which 663 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,399 Speaker 1: is the maximum that like they're like is allowed. Um now. 664 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 1: One of the leaders that evolved out of the protest 665 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: movement was a guy named Dr Roberto al Meron. He 666 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,319 Speaker 1: treated many of the burn victims of the fire, all 667 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 1: the while unaware that his own son had perished in 668 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:31,720 Speaker 1: the blaze. Um so you see why this guy, Yeah, yeah, 669 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,319 Speaker 1: Dr Almron told reporters. This is the country we have 670 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 1: where the institutions do not fulfill their function, where the 671 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 1: businessmen are capable of creating a crematorium for innocence. A 672 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 1: drawer with two doors is a roof of a karrat 673 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 1: and closed with fences and jail like bars for a 674 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 1: few dollars, just in a country with an absent state 675 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: where assistance to the victims was only media and temporary. 676 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,839 Speaker 1: After that, everything remained the same, the same country where 677 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 1: the judiciary and the municipality itself are buildings that do 678 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: not have a fire riskape, devoid of values. In a 679 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 1: terminal stated, I mean he's talking like, yeah, I think 680 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: we can all identify with what he's saying, right, Yeah, yeah, 681 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: the state and the judiciary are buildings with no fire escape. 682 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: Yes I don't. Yeah, it's like, what an unfortunate metaphor, 683 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,320 Speaker 1: But I I see what you're saying. Yeah. The lyrics 684 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 1: of a rap song broadcast on Paraguay and television after 685 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: the verdict were more succinct. Let no one leave without paying, 686 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: and so it was they paid with their lives. Yeah, yep, Oh, 687 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:40,400 Speaker 1: well that's fucking devastating. You know what's not devastating, Jamie, 688 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 1: what products products? And that's you know, I think that 689 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: that if there's anything we just learned, it's that the 690 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,879 Speaker 1: power of products and services, that's what's going to pull 691 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: us through the people. That's what's going to save us 692 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: as products and or services and our services. I'm so sorry, 693 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 1: he ads. We're back. We're back talking about how funny 694 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 1: it is that attorney general. The plural of it is 695 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:17,320 Speaker 1: is attorneys general. And we were talking about Sun's glass. 696 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,759 Speaker 1: It's very it's very silly to me. I know it's 697 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,680 Speaker 1: correct grammar, but it's silly. If I cloned Sunny. It's 698 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:28,280 Speaker 1: Sun's glasses? Is it Soun's glass? Son's Attorney's general, Son's class? 699 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:35,720 Speaker 1: Mother's fuck? They should they should really change that. It's funny. 700 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,800 Speaker 1: You know, it's not funny, Jamie. Oh, whatever you're about 701 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 1: to say for the next hour, the Equablanio supermarket fire 702 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,160 Speaker 1: was not was not funny. It was a nightmares tragedy 703 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,880 Speaker 1: enabled by greedy shareholders to craven manager, complicit security guards, 704 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,279 Speaker 1: and a profoundly selfish company founder, One Piva. I meant 705 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,240 Speaker 1: what I said earlier. One is not the primary bastard 706 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: of today's story. Our bastard is in staid, a phenomenon, 707 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: a concept, the deadly serious thing that he represents in 708 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 1: his actions. It's a phenomenon sociologists call elite panic. It 709 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:14,799 Speaker 1: sounds like a boutique store where they charged to where 710 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 1: they charged forty for a pair of socks. But what 711 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,400 Speaker 1: is it well, it's a term that was coined by 712 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 1: sociologists Karen Chess and Lee Clark of Rutger's University in 713 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,360 Speaker 1: a two thousand eight study they published under the title 714 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,480 Speaker 1: Elites and Panic more to fear than fear itself. It 715 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 1: opens with these words. Sociological research on how people respond 716 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,760 Speaker 1: to disasters has been going on for more than fifty years. 717 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 1: From that research comes one of the most robust conclusions 718 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: in sociology. Panic is rare, And of course they mean 719 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 1: that panic from regular people directly affected by a disaster 720 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 1: is extremely rare. The normal human behavior, regardless of body count, type, 721 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:58,360 Speaker 1: or duration of tragedy, is compassion and collective action. Mutual 722 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 1: aid is far more common and panic. Think of the 723 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,719 Speaker 1: people outside of the Quabolania supermarket, right, the ones who 724 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 1: rushed to help their fellow human beings by trying to 725 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 1: batter down the doors with poles that they found nearby. 726 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 1: That's a bunch of people. One person made the decision 727 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,839 Speaker 1: to lock the doors, you know, right, So that's so 728 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,680 Speaker 1: the argument that mutual aid is is the more natural 729 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: instinct than the panic, okay, is the documented by extensive research, 730 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: most common reaction of people and disasters. Think of the 731 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,520 Speaker 1: people during Hurricane Katrina who used their boats to search 732 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 1: for food and other supplies and abandoned stores that they 733 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,759 Speaker 1: could then distribute to their fellow citizens in need. A 734 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 1: lot of times they were called looters by the news. 735 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,840 Speaker 1: You know. It's like the people being like, well, this 736 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,000 Speaker 1: place is flooding everything and it's going to go bad, 737 00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: and people are hungry. Perhaps the food out of it 738 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 1: sold that, don't you They didn't pay for it. It 739 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: is it is the same instinct that led to that 740 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 1: all of those people burning to death in the UK. 741 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,319 Speaker 1: Bolagnia is like, well, but they're not paying. Yeah, it 742 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 1: doesn't matter that it's all wasted because the buildings on 743 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,920 Speaker 1: fire or flooded. They're not they're not paying. You know, 744 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 1: who would they pay? Their story now, The main argument 745 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 1: of Chess and Clark's study is that governments should include 746 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,520 Speaker 1: the citizen remore in their disaster plans, rather than assuming 747 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,840 Speaker 1: danger will cause the citizen read will collapse into an 748 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,239 Speaker 1: unruly mob who need to be controlled by armed men, 749 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,760 Speaker 1: because that's basically all government plans for disasters, Like everyone's 750 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:25,880 Speaker 1: gonna panic and the cops will have to beat them 751 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,719 Speaker 1: into responding properly, right, Like that's how we or the 752 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:36,360 Speaker 1: National Guard or whatever. Quote, classic classic approach, classic elites. Berkland, 753 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,240 Speaker 1: who has conducted extensive is another researcher who has conducted 754 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,000 Speaker 1: extensive research on the matter, argues that the disaster plans 755 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,320 Speaker 1: of policymakers and emergency management personnel assume it is likely 756 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 1: it being panic. Planners and policymakers sometimes act as if 757 00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,120 Speaker 1: the human response to threatening conditions is more dangerous than 758 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,720 Speaker 1: the threatening conditions themselves. Politically, the problem with panic endures because, 759 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 1: as Tyrney argues was another researcher, it resonates with institutional 760 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 1: interests operating on the assumption that poll panic and disasters 761 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: leads to a conclusion that disaster preparation means concentrating resources, 762 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,080 Speaker 1: keeping information close to the vest, and communicating with people 763 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 1: in soothing ways, even if the truth is disquieting. As 764 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,799 Speaker 1: Tierney points out such an approach of advance as the 765 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:20,720 Speaker 1: power of those at the top of organizations. Oh okay, okay, 766 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,799 Speaker 1: good stuff. This is yeah, this is tracking. But you 767 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 1: don't hear it. Phrases me a lot all scans in 768 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:29,560 Speaker 1: a two thousand and six and again, one of the 769 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:31,520 Speaker 1: fun things about this is that, like, there's very little 770 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:36,160 Speaker 1: disagreement about from people who study disasters on this subject. 771 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 1: In a two thousand six study of disaster responses conducted 772 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 1: by Dr Clark, they noted rather cautiously that disaster plans 773 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,320 Speaker 1: only ever assumed panic on behalf of the general public. 774 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,800 Speaker 1: People in positions of authority, including the cops, are assumed 775 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,919 Speaker 1: to keep a cool head at all times. The powerless, 776 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,719 Speaker 1: not the powerful, are said to panic, but the reality 777 00:44:54,840 --> 00:45:01,520 Speaker 1: is generally the exact opposite. It's great if rules we 778 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,560 Speaker 1: had a ton of documented evidence of this being exactly 779 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,680 Speaker 1: the case, If only people had devoted their lives to 780 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 1: proving that this was not the case. Quote. The image 781 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,000 Speaker 1: of panic is generally associated with large numbers of people 782 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,360 Speaker 1: in elites do not congregate, making it hard to transfer 783 00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:19,719 Speaker 1: the image of panic to them. Was one does not 784 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,320 Speaker 1: see collections of chief executive officers amassed in a stadium, 785 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:25,359 Speaker 1: and so it is unlikely that a story will ever 786 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:29,760 Speaker 1: appear about CEO panic in response to a soccer stadium fire. Still, 787 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,319 Speaker 1: this is not a sufficient explanation for panic to be 788 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,200 Speaker 1: so rarely attributed to people in positions of authority. For 789 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,320 Speaker 1: one could, in principle, explain the actions of chief executives, 790 00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,720 Speaker 1: heart surgeons, army generals, or university officials by a legend 791 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:46,480 Speaker 1: that they panicked in certain situations. Yet such explanations remain rare. 792 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,360 Speaker 1: So Jamie, let's talk about some of those examples. We 793 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,680 Speaker 1: opened this this episode with the story of a CEO panicking, 794 00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:56,719 Speaker 1: and I think perhaps we should talk about an army 795 00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:00,319 Speaker 1: general panicking next. Yeah, let's get a wide john of 796 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 1: people in power losing their ship, losing their fucking minds. 797 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,600 Speaker 1: At five twelve am on April eighteenth, nineteen o six, 798 00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,960 Speaker 1: the city of San Francisco suffered a massive earthquake. For 799 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,440 Speaker 1: a full minute, the ground shook, tossing tall buildings to 800 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:19,000 Speaker 1: the ground like discarded legos, cracking the streets, breaking gas lines, 801 00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: crumpling street cars. It also sent chimneys crumbling to the ground, 802 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,680 Speaker 1: and when one mixes falling chimneys with punctured gas lines. 803 00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,360 Speaker 1: It's perhaps not surprising that the next thing to strike 804 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,640 Speaker 1: San Francisco was a Titanic fire. By the time it 805 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,080 Speaker 1: was done, twenty eight thousand structures had been incinerated, and 806 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,240 Speaker 1: nearly five square miles of the city was just gone. 807 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,000 Speaker 1: More than three thousand people died, and obviously, like this 808 00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,400 Speaker 1: is six we've ever gonna know the death toll um. 809 00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,719 Speaker 1: Half half the city was left homeless. People couldn't even 810 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,480 Speaker 1: count to five thousand back then. No, no, no, they 811 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,200 Speaker 1: hadn't invented numbers larger than three thousand. That's why it 812 00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,759 Speaker 1: was three thousand right there, Like, well, we've stopped out. 813 00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,880 Speaker 1: I guess after it comes to head, we had our 814 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,719 Speaker 1: scientists were trying to count to see how high numbers went, 815 00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,840 Speaker 1: but they kept dying of old age at three thousands. 816 00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,000 Speaker 1: So that was that was the ceiling of numbers at 817 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:13,480 Speaker 1: this point that this is very sad. It's a horrible disaster. Yes, 818 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:16,879 Speaker 1: thankfully they're further away from us in times, so it's 819 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:21,360 Speaker 1: it's easier to say, but their clothes are so silly. Yeah. Again, 820 00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,759 Speaker 1: distance creates sociopathy, which is why the rich and powerful 821 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,520 Speaker 1: act the way they do and why we're going to 822 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:29,719 Speaker 1: tell jokes about a fire that killed three thousand people 823 00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,279 Speaker 1: in San Francisco. So where were distant from it? We are? 824 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,280 Speaker 1: Every human beings are the problem. Yes, power is the problem. 825 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,200 Speaker 1: Hierarchy is the problem. Distance is the problem. But anyway, 826 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,680 Speaker 1: so half of the city's left homeless, which is exactly 827 00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:42,840 Speaker 1: the sort of situation you'd expect to generate a tremendous 828 00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,600 Speaker 1: amount of panic. There are walls of fire eating the city, 829 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,680 Speaker 1: people's homes are gone, they've just had an earthquake. Yeah, 830 00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:52,520 Speaker 1: you would expect panic, right like that? That that Yeah, Instead, 831 00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,880 Speaker 1: the very opposite occurred. In her masterpiece, A Paradise Built 832 00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,919 Speaker 1: in Hell, Rebecca Soulnett tells the story of miss Anna 833 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,120 Speaker 1: Amelia Holehouse, or a middle aged woman who's home wound 834 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,240 Speaker 1: up in the path of the fire. So she loses 835 00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,239 Speaker 1: her house and she winds up. She travels calmly with 836 00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,799 Speaker 1: thousands of other people to Golden Gate Park, where they 837 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,880 Speaker 1: are able to hide from the fire basically, and she 838 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:17,400 Speaker 1: pretty much immediately decides to establish a mutual aid kitchen 839 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,879 Speaker 1: quote whole Houses started a tiny soup kitchen with one 840 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,320 Speaker 1: tin can to drink from and one pie plate to 841 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,160 Speaker 1: eat from all over the city. Stoves were hauled out 842 00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,240 Speaker 1: of damaged buildings. Fire was forbidden indoors, since many standing 843 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,880 Speaker 1: homes had gas leaks or damaged flues or chimneys or 844 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,560 Speaker 1: primitive stoves were built out of rubble, and people commenced 845 00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,480 Speaker 1: to cook for each other, for strangers, for anyone in need. 846 00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,799 Speaker 1: Her generosity was typical, even if her initiative was exceptional. 847 00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,440 Speaker 1: Whole house or got funds to buy eating utensils across 848 00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:45,600 Speaker 1: the bay in Oakland. The kitchen began to grow, and 849 00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:47,919 Speaker 1: she was soon feeding two to three hundred people a day, 850 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,000 Speaker 1: Not a victim of the disaster, but a victor over 851 00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,719 Speaker 1: it and the hostess of a popular social center. Her 852 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:57,040 Speaker 1: brothers and sisters keeper. Some visitors from Oakland liked her 853 00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,440 Speaker 1: makeshift dining camp so well they put up a sign 854 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,320 Speaker 1: this hotel, naming it after the burned out downtown luxury 855 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,280 Speaker 1: establishment that was repeatedly once the largest hotel in the world. 856 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:11,320 Speaker 1: And this was the norm. She was one of hundreds 857 00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,440 Speaker 1: and thousands of people who made like One of the 858 00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:16,560 Speaker 1: stories that she tells in this book is of like 859 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,160 Speaker 1: a local cop who the earthquake kids he sees people 860 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,560 Speaker 1: looting and instead of doing anything about that, he starts 861 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,040 Speaker 1: a kitchen to feed people, like and yeah, like that's 862 00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:29,000 Speaker 1: what people do, that's what Yeah, even cops when they're 863 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:32,120 Speaker 1: at Crown zero can act that way moment for cops 864 00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:34,680 Speaker 1: nineteen o six cops, they weren't trained yet, so that 865 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:40,799 Speaker 1: was helpful. Yeah, that's incredible. Yeah, mutual aid networks were 866 00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,760 Speaker 1: incredibly common in San Francisco. Butchers opened up their shops 867 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,320 Speaker 1: and started handing out free meat and mass for kitchens 868 00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,000 Speaker 1: like the Palace Hotel to turn into stew because they 869 00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:50,160 Speaker 1: were like, well, it's gonna go bad, we might as 870 00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:52,080 Speaker 1: well just give it away to people. And like, there 871 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,239 Speaker 1: were some large butcher shops who stopped, but there were 872 00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,840 Speaker 1: at least a couple of very large like businesses that 873 00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,920 Speaker 1: were like massive butcher who were who not only gave 874 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,799 Speaker 1: away their meat, but use their employees and resources and 875 00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,719 Speaker 1: vehicles to try to to cart it around the city 876 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,000 Speaker 1: for free to hand out to people. Again, again, we're 877 00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,360 Speaker 1: not I'm not saying that like rich people businesses always 878 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:13,799 Speaker 1: react the way that the Qua Bolognas guy did because 879 00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:15,960 Speaker 1: they were at ground zero of the disaster. They were 880 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,680 Speaker 1: affected by it, and they immediately sue, like my house 881 00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,200 Speaker 1: has gone to my city's fucked up, Like this isn't 882 00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:23,960 Speaker 1: about money. People need to eat, you know, that's I mean, 883 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,399 Speaker 1: very different situation. But I feel like we've even seen 884 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,920 Speaker 1: some of that this year, and like, yeahs that are 885 00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,040 Speaker 1: highly affected by COVID where some businesses that you're like, oh, 886 00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:35,600 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have expected this business to have sent it up, 887 00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:37,440 Speaker 1: but they're just in the middle of it, so it 888 00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:39,959 Speaker 1: makes more sense that they would actually do something. Yeah, 889 00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,040 Speaker 1: during the worst of the of the police and federal 890 00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,759 Speaker 1: riots in Portland, there was a free rib restaurant that 891 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,400 Speaker 1: started and was given like donated like three and fifty 892 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,160 Speaker 1: thousand dollars um and then there was an armed coup 893 00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:53,480 Speaker 1: that took it over. But like that's a long story 894 00:50:53,680 --> 00:51:00,000 Speaker 1: where I look forward. I look forward, so uh yeah, 895 00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:02,440 Speaker 1: it was this is like but again, like this is 896 00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,960 Speaker 1: just what people started doing. They started collect people, like 897 00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,279 Speaker 1: groups of young men spontaneously organized to pick through the 898 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:12,080 Speaker 1: ruins and ruins of stores and buildings to grab warm clothing, blankets, 899 00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,239 Speaker 1: medicine and food that they could then take back and 900 00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,120 Speaker 1: give away to their fellow people to whoever needed it. 901 00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,120 Speaker 1: Selling of such items was all but unheard of during 902 00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,040 Speaker 1: this period, as one man who operated a mutual aid 903 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,759 Speaker 1: food delivery wagon later recalled, and the reason he did 904 00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:27,359 Speaker 1: this is because he had a horse in a cart 905 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,000 Speaker 1: and he was like, well, obviously the thing I should 906 00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,960 Speaker 1: do is use my resources to give food to people 907 00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,400 Speaker 1: for free, right Yeah, as this guy said quote, no 908 00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:39,200 Speaker 1: questions were asked, no investigations were attempted. Whatever the applicant 909 00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,560 Speaker 1: required was given to him or her if I had it, 910 00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:45,400 Speaker 1: and the plan seemed to work excellently. Again, no means testing, 911 00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:47,919 Speaker 1: No do you really need this? Just like you say 912 00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,040 Speaker 1: you need it? Here you go, here you go, Like 913 00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:51,920 Speaker 1: here you fucking go. This is what I have. You know, 914 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,480 Speaker 1: if I have it, it's yours. Despite the horrors of 915 00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,160 Speaker 1: the quake in the fire, many San Franciscans who survived 916 00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:00,960 Speaker 1: described the city in this period as something of a utopia, 917 00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,440 Speaker 1: with people coming together to take care of each other 918 00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,239 Speaker 1: in a way that everyone seemed to find more fulfilling 919 00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:09,360 Speaker 1: than their daily lives had been. The writer Mary Austin 920 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,120 Speaker 1: noted that the people of her city became houseless, but 921 00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:15,080 Speaker 1: not homeless, for it comes to this with the bulk 922 00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:17,600 Speaker 1: of San Franciscan's that they discovered the place and the 923 00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:20,719 Speaker 1: spirit to be home rather than the walls and the furnishings. 924 00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:23,680 Speaker 1: No matter how the insurance totals foot up, what landmarks, 925 00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:27,279 Speaker 1: what treasures of art are vanished? San Francisco are San 926 00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:31,200 Speaker 1: Francisco is all there Yet fast as the tall banners 927 00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,600 Speaker 1: of smoke rose up and the flames reddened them, rose 928 00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:38,440 Speaker 1: up with it, something impalpable, like an excellation. That's really beautiful. 929 00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:40,279 Speaker 1: I feel bad, I mean, I mean I felt I 930 00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:44,359 Speaker 1: feel that I made fun of them. Timis, Yeah, it's beautiful. Yea. 931 00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:46,640 Speaker 1: The tech industry wasn't there yet, so people were better 932 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,000 Speaker 1: before got there. It sounds like a beautiful place. There 933 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,040 Speaker 1: was a community spirit at one point. Yeah not. I'm sorry, 934 00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:56,560 Speaker 1: San Franciscans. I know a lot of people who will 935 00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:00,040 Speaker 1: anyway we should do in the right thing, and I 936 00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:05,120 Speaker 1: keep doing it because there's yeah, there's too many of 937 00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:08,080 Speaker 1: the other ones. Yeah. So hundreds of plumbers worked free 938 00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,840 Speaker 1: for a full week to like stop broken pipes so 939 00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:14,359 Speaker 1: that like there wouldn't be water flitting everywhere. One automobile 940 00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,520 Speaker 1: dealership lent all of its cars out as ambulances for 941 00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:19,520 Speaker 1: the sick and wounded. Was just like, take all of 942 00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,600 Speaker 1: our fucking cars as ambulances, like to do whatever with them, 943 00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:24,680 Speaker 1: Like like, we trust that you will use them as 944 00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:27,760 Speaker 1: they need to be used. Clearly, people need vehicles right now. 945 00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,799 Speaker 1: The manager of the dealership later gave a quote to 946 00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,480 Speaker 1: a reporter that was essentially an early summary of the 947 00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:37,640 Speaker 1: concept of elite panic. I find this fascinating quote. All 948 00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:40,200 Speaker 1: the big hotels, such as the St. Francis, the Palace, 949 00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:42,640 Speaker 1: and others were filled with Eastern and other tourists who 950 00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:46,240 Speaker 1: seemed to have lost their heads entirely. Indeed, the only 951 00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,279 Speaker 1: really scared people that I can remember having seen through 952 00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,600 Speaker 1: the first three days of the fire were people of 953 00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:54,200 Speaker 1: this class. In many cases, these would come to the 954 00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,560 Speaker 1: garage offering to pay any price for the use of 955 00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:59,200 Speaker 1: an automobile that would take them out of the city. However, 956 00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:03,080 Speaker 1: we at salutely refused to accept money from any such applicant, 957 00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:05,000 Speaker 1: and as long as we saw that the petitioner was 958 00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:10,839 Speaker 1: able to walk, we refused to furnish a machine. Hell yeah, yeah, yeah, 959 00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:14,520 Speaker 1: But it's the rich people trying to prioritize their needs 960 00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:21,120 Speaker 1: over yeah people, over ambulances. Yes, yeah, fucking great. The 961 00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,600 Speaker 1: people of San Francisco by and large did not panic. 962 00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,960 Speaker 1: But Brigadier General Frederick Funston, the commanding officer of the 963 00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:33,680 Speaker 1: Presidio Military Base, was a different story. According to Rebecca 964 00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,880 Speaker 1: Soul that he quote perceived his job as saving the 965 00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,359 Speaker 1: city from the people, rather than saving the people from 966 00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,080 Speaker 1: the material city of cracked and crumbling buildings, fall in 967 00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:47,120 Speaker 1: power lines, and towering flames. Uh So what other people 968 00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:49,719 Speaker 1: saw is it millennial good fellowship, which is one of 969 00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:51,920 Speaker 1: the things ways that, like the spirit in San Francisco 970 00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,719 Speaker 1: was described Funston and others in power saw as a 971 00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,719 Speaker 1: mob to be repressed and a flock to be heard. 972 00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:02,640 Speaker 1: It sounds familiar, funds. Yeah, Funston did the only thing 973 00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:04,480 Speaker 1: that a guy with an army at his beck and 974 00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,600 Speaker 1: call generally thinks to do, which is sin soldiers in 975 00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,040 Speaker 1: about it. Now. He had no legal right to do this, 976 00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:15,160 Speaker 1: because it's illegal to do this without under very specific circumstances. Um. 977 00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:19,399 Speaker 1: But he forced the city under martial law again illegally. Now, 978 00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:22,120 Speaker 1: in Funston's eyes, the civilians who picked their way through 979 00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:24,879 Speaker 1: ruined shops to save precious food before it's spoiled, we're 980 00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,560 Speaker 1: not engaging in mutual aid they were, in his words, 981 00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:32,080 Speaker 1: an unlicked mob, licked meaning like them and beaten. You know, 982 00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:35,320 Speaker 1: we need to beat them to stop this bank, these 983 00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:40,200 Speaker 1: these lawbreakers. Yep. The city mayor, Eugene Schmitz was a 984 00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,400 Speaker 1: working class labor union supporting populist, but he wound up 985 00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,439 Speaker 1: reacting no differently than Funston, a man whose prior work 986 00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:50,480 Speaker 1: experience had mostly consisted of violently suppressing the International Workers 987 00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:54,680 Speaker 1: of the World, a quasi anarchist workers union now mere, 988 00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:58,480 Speaker 1: Schmidts issued a proclamation, the federal troops, the members of 989 00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:01,279 Speaker 1: the regular Police Force, and all special police officers have 990 00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:04,480 Speaker 1: been authorized by me to kill any and all persons 991 00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:06,680 Speaker 1: found engaged in looting or in the commission of any 992 00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:11,920 Speaker 1: other crime. No wait, people are feeding each other, and 993 00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:16,000 Speaker 1: he's like, shoot him again. This is the populist, working 994 00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:19,319 Speaker 1: class labor union supporting mayor. This is it's just what 995 00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:25,000 Speaker 1: happens when you're in power. That's that's a that is 996 00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:30,239 Speaker 1: a more extreme example than I was expecting. Just do 997 00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:34,759 Speaker 1: a hell turn on every Actually I've had a change 998 00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:37,800 Speaker 1: of heart. Kill them, like you know, when the looting starts, 999 00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:40,719 Speaker 1: the shooting starts, because as we all know, property is 1000 00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:44,479 Speaker 1: the same as human life. Yeah, when once you got 1001 00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:46,960 Speaker 1: once you're in charge of a lot of property, that 1002 00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:50,840 Speaker 1: just just how you start to think, Wow, that's a 1003 00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:56,440 Speaker 1: that's a that's a bad one. Yeah. Well, obviously, being 1004 00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,680 Speaker 1: again people following orders, the federal troops did as they 1005 00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:02,840 Speaker 1: were old as soliman rites quote in treating the citizens 1006 00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:06,439 Speaker 1: as enemies. The occupying armies drove residents and volunteers away 1007 00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:09,240 Speaker 1: from scenes where fire could be prevented. In many parts 1008 00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:12,560 Speaker 1: of the city, only those who eluded the authorities by diplomacy, stealth, 1009 00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:15,680 Speaker 1: or countering invocation of authority were able to fight the blaze. 1010 00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:18,440 Speaker 1: Those who did saved many homes and work sites. There 1011 00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:21,480 Speaker 1: are no reliable figures on mortality in the earthquake, but 1012 00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:24,240 Speaker 1: the best estimates are that about three thousand died, mostly 1013 00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:27,160 Speaker 1: from the earthquake itself. One historian suspects that as many 1014 00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,480 Speaker 1: as five hundred citizens were killed by the occupying forces. 1015 00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:32,880 Speaker 1: Another estimates fifty to seventy five. Again, we'll never know, 1016 00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,000 Speaker 1: because when they would shoot people, they would throw their 1017 00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:44,960 Speaker 1: corpses into burning buildings. This is the US Army. Okay, okay, 1018 00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:50,160 Speaker 1: good stuff, holy sh it, okay. So that so that 1019 00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:54,960 Speaker 1: three thousand number you know, yeah, Jesus again, who knows 1020 00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:58,920 Speaker 1: how many people they actually shot to death. The soldiers 1021 00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:01,440 Speaker 1: didn't only kill people. In many cases, they made the 1022 00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,680 Speaker 1: fire worse. So, you know, you have these fires raging 1023 00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:06,800 Speaker 1: through the city, and one of the things you do 1024 00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:08,920 Speaker 1: in that situation is you would demolish a bunch of 1025 00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,000 Speaker 1: buildings in order to create a firebreak. Right, It's the 1026 00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:12,520 Speaker 1: same thing you if you've got like a fire in 1027 00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:14,920 Speaker 1: the woods, you might like like burned down. You might 1028 00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,400 Speaker 1: do a controlled burn to destroy like a strip of 1029 00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:19,680 Speaker 1: trees in order to create a break that the fire 1030 00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:23,720 Speaker 1: that's is uncontrolled can't spread through. It's a pretty normal strategy. 1031 00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:26,640 Speaker 1: It's a fine strategy, and would be demolition buildings to 1032 00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:28,760 Speaker 1: stop a fire not a bad thing to do when 1033 00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:32,680 Speaker 1: you have a situation like this. However, when you are 1034 00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:36,120 Speaker 1: doing this in a massive urban fire, dynamite is the 1035 00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:38,200 Speaker 1: preferred or at least at that point, was the preferred 1036 00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:41,040 Speaker 1: thing to use, because dynamite is less likely to start 1037 00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:43,080 Speaker 1: fires outside of the blast area, just because of the 1038 00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:47,960 Speaker 1: way that dynamite works. Instead, the soldiers barrels of gunpowder. No, 1039 00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:53,760 Speaker 1: and again you're just like, this is the army, this 1040 00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:59,280 Speaker 1: is supposed to be there. But you're supposed to and 1041 00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:03,800 Speaker 1: you probably have dynamite because you're the army. Where was 1042 00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:09,520 Speaker 1: all the dynamite at spoken? Obviously, the armies failures like 1043 00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:12,240 Speaker 1: massively spread fires and destroyed thousands of buildings that might 1044 00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,000 Speaker 1: have otherwise been saved. I really do recommend reading like 1045 00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:16,800 Speaker 1: and there's there's other ship that they did too. Like 1046 00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,520 Speaker 1: one of the things that most fucked up, but maybe 1047 00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:22,800 Speaker 1: least obvious, is that they started establishing soup kitchens to 1048 00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:25,840 Speaker 1: feed people in some cases like pushing other ones out 1049 00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:28,920 Speaker 1: of operation. But when the military did it, everyone got 1050 00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:31,400 Speaker 1: like ration cards and you had a very strict limited 1051 00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:33,080 Speaker 1: set that you could get and you could only come in, 1052 00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,600 Speaker 1: and it was like they were basically like they were 1053 00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:37,800 Speaker 1: almost like treated as prisoners while they were getting their 1054 00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:40,560 Speaker 1: food and stuff, because they didn't want to encourage dependency 1055 00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:42,600 Speaker 1: by giving out too much free food or making it 1056 00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:44,760 Speaker 1: be pleasant, as opposed to the mutual aid kitchens that 1057 00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:47,360 Speaker 1: were like eat your phil you know, yeah, like eat 1058 00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:52,720 Speaker 1: what you take, what you need and people will do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1059 00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:56,400 Speaker 1: I didn't. I honestly I didn't know that about this book. 1060 00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:58,400 Speaker 1: And I'm a soul knit head she's great, have no 1061 00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:01,240 Speaker 1: idea what this is, what I'm I have very favorite books. 1062 01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:03,560 Speaker 1: I really do recommend reading A Paradise Built in Hell. 1063 01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:07,400 Speaker 1: She goes into tremendous and fascinating and it's again for fairness, 1064 01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:10,080 Speaker 1: like the army did other stuff that was like they organized, 1065 01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:13,200 Speaker 1: like medical ambulances and ship like. There were good things 1066 01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:16,919 Speaker 1: that soldiers did and that like individual local leaders did, 1067 01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:19,920 Speaker 1: but there were a lot of bad things and I 1068 01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:24,320 Speaker 1: in my head it kind of outweighs the good. Um, yeah, 1069 01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:29,040 Speaker 1: it's Soulnet's book has been very influential. It's I think 1070 01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:31,720 Speaker 1: uh was influential. One of my favorite books Tribe by 1071 01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:34,960 Speaker 1: Sebastian Younger, which delves into some of the same topics. 1072 01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:37,480 Speaker 1: UM is more about PTSD, but talks a lot about 1073 01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:41,480 Speaker 1: why like um, why U S soldiers probably suffer PTSD 1074 01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:43,280 Speaker 1: at a higher rate than any other soldiers in the 1075 01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:45,840 Speaker 1: history of warfare and it it his The kind of 1076 01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:48,040 Speaker 1: conclusion he comes to is that it's because of the 1077 01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:51,280 Speaker 1: society they come home to, rather than the specific details 1078 01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:55,000 Speaker 1: of modern combat. Um, it's because of how fucked civilization is. 1079 01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:57,040 Speaker 1: It's because like when when you break down, as when 1080 01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:59,200 Speaker 1: you head home to an empty apartment. You know, it's 1081 01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:01,080 Speaker 1: not when you're out in the field with your buddies 1082 01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:02,880 Speaker 1: and ship. It's when you come home and you're in 1083 01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,120 Speaker 1: an empty building, the way that we tend to live 1084 01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:09,040 Speaker 1: alone and isolated. Then you shatter into a thousand pieces. Anyway, 1085 01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:13,280 Speaker 1: Also a good book tried, Yeah, soul Nets book has 1086 01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:15,440 Speaker 1: been very influential to a number of people who I 1087 01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:18,240 Speaker 1: think are pretty darn smart. One example would be Corey Doctoro, 1088 01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:21,360 Speaker 1: who I like quite a lot. Yeah, and he wrote 1089 01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:25,160 Speaker 1: this on the subject of elite panic quote. Elites tend 1090 01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:28,479 Speaker 1: to believe in a venal, selfish, and essentially monstrous version 1091 01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:30,880 Speaker 1: of human nature, which I sometimes think is their own 1092 01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:34,000 Speaker 1: human nature. I mean, people don't become incredibly wealthy and 1093 01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:37,440 Speaker 1: powerful by being angelic necessarily. They believe that only their 1094 01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:39,480 Speaker 1: power keeps the rest of us in line, and that 1095 01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:42,680 Speaker 1: when it somehow shrinks away, our seething violence will rise 1096 01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:45,360 Speaker 1: to the surface. That was very clear in Katrina. Timley 1097 01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:47,560 Speaker 1: garden Ash and Maureen Doubt and all these other people 1098 01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:50,680 Speaker 1: immediately jumped on the bandwagon and started writing commentaries based 1099 01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:52,960 Speaker 1: on the assumption that the rumors of mass violence during 1100 01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:56,520 Speaker 1: Katrina were true. A lot of people have never understood 1101 01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:58,560 Speaker 1: that the rumors were dispelled and that those things didn't 1102 01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:02,080 Speaker 1: actually happen. It's try Jake now I found another write 1103 01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:04,880 Speaker 1: up in Commentary magazine that continues Doctro's line of thought 1104 01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:07,520 Speaker 1: with more concrete examples, both from Katrina and from our 1105 01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:12,640 Speaker 1: present disaster. Quote elite panic frequently brings out another unsavory 1106 01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:15,120 Speaker 1: quirk on the part of some authorities, a tendency to 1107 01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:17,720 Speaker 1: believe the worst about their own citizens. In the midst 1108 01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,080 Speaker 1: of the Hurricane Katrina crisis in two thousand five, New 1109 01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:22,520 Speaker 1: Orleans Mayor Ray Nagan found time to go on Oprah 1110 01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:26,400 Speaker 1: Winfrey Show and lament Wholigan's killing people, raping people in 1111 01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:30,360 Speaker 1: the Superdome. Public officials in the media credulously repeated rumors 1112 01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:33,720 Speaker 1: about street violence, snipers shooting at helicopters, and hundreds of 1113 01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:36,240 Speaker 1: bodies piled in the Superdome. These all turned out to 1114 01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:40,080 Speaker 1: be wild exaggerations or falsehoods, arguably tinged by racism, but 1115 01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:43,040 Speaker 1: the stories had an impact Away from the media's cameras. 1116 01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:46,840 Speaker 1: A massive rescue effort made up of freelance volunteers, Coastguard, helicopters, 1117 01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:49,720 Speaker 1: and other first responders was underway across the city, but 1118 01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:54,200 Speaker 1: city officials, fearing attacks on rescuers, frequently delayed these operations. 1119 01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:57,040 Speaker 1: They ordered that precious space and boats and helicopters be 1120 01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:01,800 Speaker 1: reserved for armed escorts. Jesus Christ, if that doesn't sum 1121 01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:04,960 Speaker 1: up America failing to rescue people because you needed more 1122 01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:11,440 Speaker 1: room for guns, is like we love guns more than 1123 01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:15,400 Speaker 1: we love our own since that's such a strange thing 1124 01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:18,720 Speaker 1: to even like here repeated back, because it's like, I 1125 01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:23,560 Speaker 1: mean in certain circle that it's like known that that 1126 01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:26,640 Speaker 1: is not something to happen. But I clearly remember when 1127 01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:29,320 Speaker 1: I was a kid when that was happening, that being 1128 01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:32,760 Speaker 1: just fully the only coverage you would really see. It 1129 01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,800 Speaker 1: was like that first saw off there there was a 1130 01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:38,840 Speaker 1: horrific tragedy, and second off that the citizens were being 1131 01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:43,000 Speaker 1: blamed for a thing like that was so there was 1132 01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:45,000 Speaker 1: more of that and you didn't really hear the other 1133 01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:48,560 Speaker 1: side at all. Nope, No, why would you. Again, it's 1134 01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:51,520 Speaker 1: the same thing that is Twitter's purpose, which is so 1135 01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:53,720 Speaker 1: that you can tell a lie and then corrected with 1136 01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:57,400 Speaker 1: the truth. But nobody reads that second Twitter. It's there, 1137 01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:00,440 Speaker 1: it's all there, it's there, but we don't read it. 1138 01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:03,240 Speaker 1: I'm going to continue that quote from Commentary magazine as 1139 01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:05,720 Speaker 1: it moves into the present day. Too often, the need 1140 01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:09,360 Speaker 1: to avoid panic serves as a retroactive justification for all 1141 01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:12,440 Speaker 1: manner of official missteps. In late March, as the coronavirus 1142 01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:14,800 Speaker 1: pandemic was climbing towards its crest in New York City, 1143 01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:17,440 Speaker 1: Mayor Bill de Blasio appeared on CNN State of the 1144 01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:20,160 Speaker 1: Union to defend his record. Host Jake Tapper pressed the 1145 01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:22,240 Speaker 1: mayor on his many statements as recently as two weeks 1146 01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:25,680 Speaker 1: earlier urging New Yorkers to go about their lives. Tapper 1147 01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:28,080 Speaker 1: asked whether those statements were at least in part to 1148 01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:30,120 Speaker 1: blame for how the virus has spread across the city. 1149 01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:32,760 Speaker 1: To Blasio, didn't give an inch. Everybody was working with 1150 01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:35,160 Speaker 1: the information we had, he explained, and trying, of course, 1151 01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:39,160 Speaker 1: to avoid panic. How advising people to avoid bars and 1152 01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:42,280 Speaker 1: Broadway shows would have been tantamount to panic was left unexplained. 1153 01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:46,960 Speaker 1: And again, yeah, it's the same thing. Right. People had 1154 01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:49,960 Speaker 1: shut down earlier, it would have meant less money. It's 1155 01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:52,760 Speaker 1: locking the doors and saving the money from the cash 1156 01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:55,000 Speaker 1: registers while people burned to death. That's the It's the 1157 01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:57,520 Speaker 1: same thing. They all do it, ever the period of 1158 01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:00,040 Speaker 1: days and months instead, and then people still pray it 1159 01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:04,480 Speaker 1: is de Blasio for his you know whatever. He did 1160 01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:08,360 Speaker 1: a terrible job. He's a monster, like he's yeah, they're 1161 01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:12,520 Speaker 1: they're all, they're all trash. That's the point, you know. Like, 1162 01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:15,400 Speaker 1: and the fact that he's better than someone who has 1163 01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:19,600 Speaker 1: actively pretended that the virus isn't a problem doesn't say 1164 01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:22,000 Speaker 1: anything good about him. It's just me. It's like the 1165 01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:24,400 Speaker 1: bar is beneath the floor, the bar is in the 1166 01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:26,960 Speaker 1: parking garage. Like it's like if you step on a 1167 01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:29,080 Speaker 1: rusty rake and it goes through your foot, and then 1168 01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:31,240 Speaker 1: the person ten feet away steps on a land mine, 1169 01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:33,840 Speaker 1: like like you're like, well, I'm glad I didn't step 1170 01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:36,000 Speaker 1: on the land mine, but you're not happy, you know, 1171 01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:39,480 Speaker 1: but I'm still gonna die if I didn't get my tea. Yeah, 1172 01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:49,480 Speaker 1: you still have a problems rake tenness rake v land mine. Well, 1173 01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:55,520 Speaker 1: the election of our lives. Well, it's like, well, this, 1174 01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:59,880 Speaker 1: this horrifying metaphor has has really come full circle. Thank you. Now. 1175 01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:03,480 Speaker 1: That Commentary magazine article goes into detail about another disaster, 1176 01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:06,720 Speaker 1: a nine point to magnitude earthquake, off the Alaskan coast. 1177 01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:10,240 Speaker 1: In March of nineteen sixty two, Anchorage, the state's largest city, 1178 01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:14,439 Speaker 1: was devastated. Thousands were rendered homeless, Whole neighborhoods fell off 1179 01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,240 Speaker 1: of cliff sides, and then the thing that happens in 1180 01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:20,920 Speaker 1: every disaster happened. People spontaneously organized search and rescue teams 1181 01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:24,520 Speaker 1: to find their trapped neighbors. Meanwhile, the people in charge panicked. 1182 01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:27,640 Speaker 1: In order to protect local businesses from looting, the police 1183 01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:31,320 Speaker 1: immediately deputized a crowd of volunteers, many of whom had 1184 01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:33,840 Speaker 1: been drinking in bars and instant like right before the 1185 01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:36,760 Speaker 1: quake hit. So they find a bunch of drunk men 1186 01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:40,880 Speaker 1: and give them arm bands with the word police written 1187 01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:49,560 Speaker 1: on them in lipstick. No, no, it's very funny. They 1188 01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:53,720 Speaker 1: also gave a lot of them guns. But it's Alaska. 1189 01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:57,960 Speaker 1: Everybody was already packing. I mean, let's be honest here. Yeah. Yeah, 1190 01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:02,240 Speaker 1: oh my god. Yeah. Now, in doing this, cops were 1191 01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:04,760 Speaker 1: acting in accordance with the science of the day, as 1192 01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:07,960 Speaker 1: embodied by the work of social scientist Richard Titmus, which 1193 01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:11,440 Speaker 1: let's just let's take a moment for Titmas. Like Titmus, 1194 01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:15,880 Speaker 1: it's like a boob based Christmas. That sounds like either 1195 01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:20,280 Speaker 1: really terrible disease or oh she's got the titmos yeah, 1196 01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:25,120 Speaker 1: or very titmus, and then you're like very aggressive. Yeah. Yeah. 1197 01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:31,560 Speaker 1: So he believed Titmus believe that any major disaster would 1198 01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:34,960 Speaker 1: cause quote a mass outbreak of hysterical neurosis among the 1199 01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:39,200 Speaker 1: civilian population. Civilians traumatized by death and destruction, he thought 1200 01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:43,439 Speaker 1: would behave like frightened and unsatisfied children. The only way 1201 01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:46,400 Speaker 1: for authorities to avoid such horror was to use force 1202 01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:50,400 Speaker 1: and the threat of force immediately. And again, this was 1203 01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:53,080 Speaker 1: very heavily influenced over the Cold War. Right, people are 1204 01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:54,800 Speaker 1: every one of the governments thinking what's going to happen 1205 01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:56,720 Speaker 1: when the nukes fall? In The assumption is everyone will 1206 01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:58,120 Speaker 1: panic and we'll have to shoot a bunch of them 1207 01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:00,680 Speaker 1: in order to maintain order. The fun thing about this 1208 01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:03,320 Speaker 1: is they don't even have the excuse of like, well, 1209 01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:05,000 Speaker 1: they didn't know at the time, They hadn't done as 1210 01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:08,520 Speaker 1: much research. The bombing of London had happened, like the 1211 01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:11,479 Speaker 1: Blitz had occurred, right, and they had going into the blitz, 1212 01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:13,320 Speaker 1: we talked about this and it could happen here. Younger 1213 01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:15,600 Speaker 1: talks about it and tried going into the blitz. Everyone 1214 01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:17,760 Speaker 1: had expected that the entire city would panic and people 1215 01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,320 Speaker 1: be like eating each other and like committing rape and murder. 1216 01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:22,479 Speaker 1: And instead everyone did the thing people always do in 1217 01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:26,120 Speaker 1: disasters and took care of each other collectively cared. Okay, 1218 01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:28,600 Speaker 1: but nobody listened, you know, no one, No one had 1219 01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:31,360 Speaker 1: charge paid attention because they just can't imagine that that's 1220 01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:35,480 Speaker 1: the case. It's you have to imagine it actively benefits 1221 01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:38,840 Speaker 1: them to make people afraid of each other. Yeah, yes, absolutely, 1222 01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:41,400 Speaker 1: because then other things might happen that they wouldn't like. 1223 01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:45,200 Speaker 1: So the elite panic over the possible chaos outweighed any 1224 01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:48,320 Speaker 1: obligation to protect the citizens of Anchorage. The police chief 1225 01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:51,120 Speaker 1: immediately suspended the search for survivors in the rubble, like 1226 01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:53,920 Speaker 1: because he's worried about chaos. Now, we don't have time 1227 01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:56,280 Speaker 1: to look for any survivors. Like, we have to get 1228 01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:59,360 Speaker 1: these lipstick cops out on the street, give guns to 1229 01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:02,719 Speaker 1: more drunk that's what's gonna protect people. Okay, I would 1230 01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:09,280 Speaker 1: see a movie called lipstick Cops. Lipstick cops, especially if 1231 01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:12,599 Speaker 1: they're police who only police the quality of people's use 1232 01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:15,760 Speaker 1: of lipstick. Right, and that was the same violence as 1233 01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:20,439 Speaker 1: modern cops. Yeah, with the same amount of baseless judgment 1234 01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:23,479 Speaker 1: and violence as a model swat teams just opening up 1235 01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:28,040 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles malls. There's whole corners of YouTube devoted 1236 01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:31,759 Speaker 1: to this, this very ellipstick copery. Not after the lipstick 1237 01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:35,719 Speaker 1: cops get in it, there won't be purged. So yeah, 1238 01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,280 Speaker 1: so again, everyone in charge, a lot of them at 1239 01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:41,240 Speaker 1: least panic. The people, of course do not. And since 1240 01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:43,560 Speaker 1: the police chief has called off the search for survivors, 1241 01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:47,080 Speaker 1: the citizens of Anchorage spontaneously organized groups of citizens and 1242 01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:50,000 Speaker 1: pull every single survivor from the ruins. And in fact, 1243 01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:52,559 Speaker 1: they had done it by the time the police chiefs 1244 01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:55,240 Speaker 1: like like by the like. While the police chief was 1245 01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:58,679 Speaker 1: like panicking about chaos like, people were actively like finishing 1246 01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:02,360 Speaker 1: the search for survivors. It's very funny quote. By the 1247 01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:04,960 Speaker 1: morning after the quake, more than two volunteers were jammed 1248 01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:07,479 Speaker 1: inside the Anchorage Public Safety building and they brought equipment. 1249 01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:09,800 Speaker 1: Earth movers and dump trucks lined the street outside. Two 1250 01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:12,640 Speaker 1: volunteers took it upon themselves to organize the crowd. They 1251 01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:15,840 Speaker 1: wrote down names and skills carpenters, plumbers, electricians, and started 1252 01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:18,599 Speaker 1: matching people to the tasks that were pouring in. Somebody 1253 01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:21,680 Speaker 1: hung up a sign manpower control. In little more than 1254 01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:24,040 Speaker 1: twelve hours, the gangs of shatting pastors by pulling victims 1255 01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:26,639 Speaker 1: from the wreckage had turned into a workforce where authorities 1256 01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:30,639 Speaker 1: expected panicked crowds. Instead they found gun hole volunteers, skilled workers, 1257 01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:33,360 Speaker 1: asking only to be pointed towards jobs that needed doing. 1258 01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:36,000 Speaker 1: In the end, and this is the writing of a 1259 01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:38,639 Speaker 1: social scientists named Muallam who studied this. In the end, 1260 01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:42,439 Speaker 1: this diffused wave of unofficial first responders had reclaimed almost 1261 01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:45,519 Speaker 1: all the cities engine dead before nightfall on Friday morning. 1262 01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:48,880 Speaker 1: All over the city, ordinary people urge surged into action, 1263 01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:51,400 Speaker 1: teaming up and switching on like a kind of civic 1264 01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:54,200 Speaker 1: immune response, which is how Muallam describes this, which I 1265 01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:59,760 Speaker 1: really find. Yeah. When reporters from what Alaskans call outside 1266 01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:03,400 Speaker 1: and reaching the city, many were openly skeptical of the 1267 01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:06,719 Speaker 1: low fatality numbers being reported by Davis's search crews. At first, 1268 01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:10,080 Speaker 1: twelve four believed to be lost, but survivors kept turning up. Eventually, 1269 01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:13,479 Speaker 1: the Anchorage death tolls settled in an almost miraculous five people, 1270 01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:20,960 Speaker 1: so thankfully not another supermarket fire. Now. This situation fascinated 1271 01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:23,800 Speaker 1: a team of social scientists from Ohio State University who 1272 01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:26,200 Speaker 1: arrived a day and a half after the disaster, and 1273 01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:29,599 Speaker 1: there they were studying people's disaster response under funding from 1274 01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:32,080 Speaker 1: the U. S. Army because the military, like it was 1275 01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:34,040 Speaker 1: the Cold War again, the defense industry had a deep 1276 01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:35,960 Speaker 1: and abiding interest of knowing, like if there's a mass 1277 01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:39,200 Speaker 1: disaster in the city, how do people react? Um, And 1278 01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:41,760 Speaker 1: they had the military had sent them there basically being like, 1279 01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:44,320 Speaker 1: tell us how they panic, Like, so we can figure 1280 01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:47,840 Speaker 1: out ways to like violently corral the citizenry once they 1281 01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:52,240 Speaker 1: panic and a disaster. Some blame tactics were always looking 1282 01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:54,479 Speaker 1: for new material. Here, give us, give us like who 1283 01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:56,439 Speaker 1: tell us who we need to shoot next time this happened? 1284 01:11:56,520 --> 01:12:00,320 Speaker 1: They suck, right, go on, tell us how bad they sucked. Yeah. 1285 01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:03,879 Speaker 1: Researchers though, like again they come, so they come expecting 1286 01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:07,360 Speaker 1: chaos and violence, and instead they find like people taking 1287 01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:10,080 Speaker 1: care of each other the way they always do. Researchers 1288 01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:12,840 Speaker 1: approached citizen after citizen in the work groups and asked 1289 01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:15,720 Speaker 1: them each variations of the same question, who told you 1290 01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:19,759 Speaker 1: to do this? And the answer always boiled down to nobody, 1291 01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:22,400 Speaker 1: like someone needed to do this. So here, I am 1292 01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:25,880 Speaker 1: just I'm a person. Yeah, I'm a person doing the 1293 01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:32,160 Speaker 1: thing that people do. Minimum what about Yeah? Yeah, why 1294 01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:34,920 Speaker 1: aren't you fucking helping you put the fucking clipboard down? Dude? 1295 01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:39,080 Speaker 1: Question is that? Yeah? Yeah, there's people who are hurt. Like, 1296 01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:40,800 Speaker 1: what do you fucking mean? What am I who told 1297 01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:44,240 Speaker 1: me to do this? Yeah? Quote from commentary. The team 1298 01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:46,760 Speaker 1: stayed for a week and interviewed nearly five people, and 1299 01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:50,040 Speaker 1: we Coo Quarantelly. This leader of the study was particularly 1300 01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:53,080 Speaker 1: interested in Anchorage. A small civil defense office, it should 1301 01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:55,440 Speaker 1: have been in charge of search and rescue, but Quarantelly 1302 01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:58,400 Speaker 1: noted it had quickly become bogged down over questions of 1303 01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:02,240 Speaker 1: bureaucratic protocol. Of of course, the amateur mountaineers, the people 1304 01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:05,360 Speaker 1: who would like basically volunteered to do search and rescue, 1305 01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:08,000 Speaker 1: had taken over that function almost immediately. Quarantelly used the 1306 01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:12,520 Speaker 1: term emergent groups to describe teams of self organized volunteers 1307 01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:15,400 Speaker 1: like Davis's searchers. He didn't miss the irony that the 1308 01:13:15,439 --> 01:13:19,120 Speaker 1: agency created to protect civilians soon became an obstacle. That 1309 01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:24,320 Speaker 1: this emergent group of rescuers had to work around God. Okay, yeah, 1310 01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:27,360 Speaker 1: you argue, especially in times of this, the state's really 1311 01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:30,080 Speaker 1: just an obstacle for people, you know, trying to do 1312 01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:32,200 Speaker 1: important work. Yeah, they're just getting in the way of 1313 01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:35,080 Speaker 1: people doing the work that needs to be done better 1314 01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:38,720 Speaker 1: and for free. Yeah you could argue that. I could 1315 01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:41,120 Speaker 1: argue that, But then arguing that would lead you to 1316 01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:44,160 Speaker 1: other things that are very radical, and so we will 1317 01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:47,120 Speaker 1: let's never continue this line of thinking. Definitely, don't continue 1318 01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:48,960 Speaker 1: this line of thinking in your own house. Don't read 1319 01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:51,360 Speaker 1: a Paradise Built in Hell and Tribe and then think 1320 01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:53,720 Speaker 1: about the implications of that in terms of like how 1321 01:13:53,720 --> 01:13:56,479 Speaker 1: a polity should actually function. No, I wouldn't. I would 1322 01:13:56,479 --> 01:13:58,920 Speaker 1: never lead with empathy. I think that that's actually kind 1323 01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:02,040 Speaker 1: of a dangerous path to go down. Oh horrible, horrid. 1324 01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:05,479 Speaker 1: Find yourself doing things thinking thoughts, you might find yourself 1325 01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:08,040 Speaker 1: as part of an emergent group, taking the responsibility for 1326 01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:10,320 Speaker 1: the safety and security of your fellow citizens into your 1327 01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:14,160 Speaker 1: own hands. And I would never Yeah that, then we're 1328 01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:19,120 Speaker 1: then we're really fucked. Then we're fucked. We start banding together, 1329 01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:22,200 Speaker 1: we're fucked. Yeah, my god. If we're taking care of 1330 01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:25,400 Speaker 1: each other instead of letting the the armed and angry 1331 01:14:25,439 --> 01:14:29,719 Speaker 1: young men like men with Yeah, we've talked enough about cops. 1332 01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:32,280 Speaker 1: It is funny that the story that I read right 1333 01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:35,280 Speaker 1: before recording this episode is about how a group of 1334 01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:38,280 Speaker 1: the state police in Kentucky, one of their training documents 1335 01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:40,800 Speaker 1: about a warrior mentality came out, and in it they 1336 01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:45,320 Speaker 1: quote Hitler positively, perceptions and actions are not hindered by 1337 01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:49,439 Speaker 1: the potential of death. They also quoted Robert E. Lee. 1338 01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:53,280 Speaker 1: They encourage police to be ruthless killers. I don't know. 1339 01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:56,000 Speaker 1: I prefer emergent groups of people taking care of each other, 1340 01:14:56,040 --> 01:15:00,280 Speaker 1: but whatever. I love emergent groups. I love that that. Yeah, 1341 01:15:00,280 --> 01:15:04,120 Speaker 1: they was still found sounds scary. I don't want to 1342 01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:06,400 Speaker 1: when any of those emergent groups getting near you and 1343 01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:10,960 Speaker 1: saving your life. You wouldn't want that. No, no, no, no, no. 1344 01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:15,799 Speaker 1: They might loot. They might loot food from a burning building. 1345 01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:21,439 Speaker 1: That is so Yeah, but you didn't pay. You're like, yeah, 1346 01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:25,439 Speaker 1: the building is full of building is on fire. Yeah. Oh, 1347 01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:27,639 Speaker 1: it's just like shove a dollar bill in a fish's mouth. 1348 01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:32,320 Speaker 1: They're like, Okay, we're more square here. Yeah, well, Jamie, Yeah, 1349 01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:36,720 Speaker 1: that's my episode on Elite Panic. I uh First of all, 1350 01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:39,679 Speaker 1: I think we should start a band called Elite. I agree, 1351 01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:42,519 Speaker 1: we should start a punk band we should started years 1352 01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:46,360 Speaker 1: ago called Elite Panic, get some wigs, do some metal, 1353 01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:51,800 Speaker 1: absolutely and really addicted to cocaine. Later be found to 1354 01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:55,080 Speaker 1: have engaged in a whole bunch of questionable sexual behaviors, 1355 01:15:55,120 --> 01:16:00,000 Speaker 1: like just oodles of them on our private yet like yeah, absolutely, absolutely, 1356 01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:02,280 Speaker 1: and then and then and then twenty years after that, 1357 01:16:02,439 --> 01:16:04,800 Speaker 1: someone writes a best seller about that, and we get 1358 01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:07,240 Speaker 1: canceled in the press, and then there's an HBO mini 1359 01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:10,599 Speaker 1: series based on us. We're played by that same guy 1360 01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:15,759 Speaker 1: who played David Koresh. Sec Es and stop both played 1361 01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:19,920 Speaker 1: by We're both We're both played by David Koresh. Absolutely 1362 01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:24,360 Speaker 1: and Emmy. He wins all of them. Actually, I would 1363 01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:26,799 Speaker 1: say he's nominated for an Emmy, but that he loses 1364 01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:32,519 Speaker 1: to Fokey. That's what I would say to your last 1365 01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:34,960 Speaker 1: episode and to the thing that happened to you with 1366 01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:39,840 Speaker 1: the Emmy. I'm never over. Okay, So this is being 1367 01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:42,400 Speaker 1: recorded like the day before Halloween. Did see a child 1368 01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:46,000 Speaker 1: dressed as Fokey on the street today and I was triggered. 1369 01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:49,200 Speaker 1: I was I still have no idea who Forky is, 1370 01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:53,400 Speaker 1: and I will every weapon at my disposal to avoid 1371 01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:57,080 Speaker 1: learning that was I have to say this is for 1372 01:16:57,120 --> 01:17:00,719 Speaker 1: all of the horrible atrocities we talked about today. Uh, 1373 01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:04,200 Speaker 1: there there was some optimism to be found in in Uh, 1374 01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:08,360 Speaker 1: in this one, I feel I feel not completely terrible. No, 1375 01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:11,559 Speaker 1: because again, the lesson that people learn over and over 1376 01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:15,439 Speaker 1: again in times like this is like, oh, people take 1377 01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:17,960 Speaker 1: care of each other when things are bad, like which 1378 01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:20,920 Speaker 1: everything goes to ship at once. People tend to be like, well, 1379 01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:24,639 Speaker 1: how can I help? That's the normal human response, unless 1380 01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:29,439 Speaker 1: you're rich, or the mayor, or a general or the 1381 01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:34,759 Speaker 1: CEO of a supermarket, shape or a rich mayor. Yeah, 1382 01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:37,719 Speaker 1: if you're the baby, you're not. Don't be the baby. 1383 01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:41,000 Speaker 1: Don't be the baby. Don't be save babies. Don't let 1384 01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:43,720 Speaker 1: them burn to death while saving cash registers. Don't be 1385 01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:46,280 Speaker 1: the baby, and definitely don't be the son of a baby. 1386 01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:51,559 Speaker 1: Be a person. Babies aren't people, That's what I'm saying. Yeah, 1387 01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:56,040 Speaker 1: all right, Well this will drop after the election, so 1388 01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:59,680 Speaker 1: it may land in a world incomprehensibly different than the 1389 01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:02,799 Speaker 1: one that we're currently in, but will probably be broadly 1390 01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:05,840 Speaker 1: similar to the one that we're in but either shittier 1391 01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:11,719 Speaker 1: or maybe slightly less shitty. No, no real way to know. Yeah, this, 1392 01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:15,599 Speaker 1: this podcast exists in a strange void in time. It does, 1393 01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:18,200 Speaker 1: it does. It is weird recording this and being like, 1394 01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:21,439 Speaker 1: who the funk knows where everything's going to be? So yeah, 1395 01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:27,519 Speaker 1: give us, give us ninety six hours. Who fucking knows? Yeah? Anyway, 1396 01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:31,479 Speaker 1: Well I had fun. I have fun. To Jamie, I 1397 01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:35,679 Speaker 1: enjoy talking about elite panic. It turns out I do too, 1398 01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:38,840 Speaker 1: now that I know what it is. Well for the 1399 01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:41,840 Speaker 1: people who are not elites, who have panicked already, you 1400 01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:45,599 Speaker 1: want to give your plug doubles plugging away, You can 1401 01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:49,760 Speaker 1: follow me on Twitter dot com at Jamie loftus help. 1402 01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:54,200 Speaker 1: You can listen to my new show, Lolita Podcast, which 1403 01:18:54,600 --> 01:18:58,920 Speaker 1: examines the legacy of the book Lolita and gets really 1404 01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:02,000 Speaker 1: into who the character to Laura's Hayes was and how 1405 01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:07,760 Speaker 1: she got lost in translation throughout the adaptations that that 1406 01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:11,439 Speaker 1: this book was given over the years. And uh yeah, 1407 01:19:11,560 --> 01:19:17,160 Speaker 1: that starts on Munday, novemberye and episodes will release every Monday. 1408 01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:20,479 Speaker 1: And Robert, you're going to be playing Vladimir Nabokov, the 1409 01:19:21,240 --> 01:19:23,920 Speaker 1: role of a lifetime, the role of a lifetime. It's 1410 01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:28,559 Speaker 1: the part I shouldn't say that. This is not a 1411 01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:30,840 Speaker 1: time for It's the part I was born to play. 1412 01:19:33,000 --> 01:19:37,120 Speaker 1: He's actually not a terrible person, so he's uh and 1413 01:19:37,160 --> 01:19:40,600 Speaker 1: I've looked, but wait, wasn't he didn't? Oh wait no, 1414 01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:43,920 Speaker 1: Lolita was supposed to be like Antie that right, is 1415 01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:45,760 Speaker 1: the guy fucking the kid was supposed to be a 1416 01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:48,720 Speaker 1: bad guy, right, he was a village. Yeah. The book, 1417 01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:53,120 Speaker 1: I've never read it because it seems that's good. But 1418 01:19:53,200 --> 01:20:00,720 Speaker 1: everyone's interpretation, like the greater cultures, uh, interpretation was the 1419 01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:04,120 Speaker 1: exact opposite. Is it kind of like like Starship Troopers, 1420 01:20:04,160 --> 01:20:06,240 Speaker 1: where it's like they made a movie to make fun 1421 01:20:06,240 --> 01:20:08,920 Speaker 1: of how bad fascism is and how bad how close 1422 01:20:08,960 --> 01:20:11,240 Speaker 1: to fascism America was, but instead everyone was like, look 1423 01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:13,160 Speaker 1: at those cool guns. I want to be those guys. 1424 01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:16,559 Speaker 1: It's literally, yeah, it's just like the smartest people in 1425 01:20:16,560 --> 01:20:22,240 Speaker 1: the world being like, so I think you are. Yeah. 1426 01:20:22,439 --> 01:20:25,479 Speaker 1: So it's it's it's interesting and funked up, and it's been, 1427 01:20:25,560 --> 01:20:27,320 Speaker 1: you know, ruining my day every day for a while. 1428 01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:30,600 Speaker 1: So you should listen to never make anything with a 1429 01:20:30,680 --> 01:20:34,040 Speaker 1: message because people will misinterpret it and molest children. That's 1430 01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:37,080 Speaker 1: the message of today, and now there's going to be 1431 01:20:37,080 --> 01:20:42,040 Speaker 1: a whole podcasts about it, all right, well, the episodes 1432 01:20:42,240 --> 01:20:49,320 Speaker 1: fucking over whatever. It's reasonable when the incomprehensible world you 1433 01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:52,080 Speaker 1: live in now bite