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Speaker 1: I just want to make you really mad with my

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Speaker 1: Florence and the Machine impression. Do you want to hear it? No? Wait,

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Speaker 1: I need to find a tambourine somewhere. Do you have

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Speaker 1: like a bag of beans I can grab? Well, he

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Speaker 1: fucked me in the bedroom. You're just trying. I'm Lawrence

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Speaker 1: in the Machine. I loved and people. Today we are

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Speaker 1: talking about something that honestly has been a very long

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Speaker 1: time coming. Um and let me tell you, Lord of

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Speaker 1: the Rings was easily top five most formative piece of

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Speaker 1: culture to Rose and I's childhoods. Maybe more so important

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Speaker 1: to Roads today than it is to me today. However,

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Speaker 1: it is something that we have effectively schooled each other

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Speaker 1: on time and time, and it is something that you,

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Speaker 1: the Virgins, have asked time and time again for us

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Speaker 1: to talk about. So for those reasons, today we are

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Speaker 1: talking about Lord of the Rings, the books, the movies,

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Speaker 1: the cultural phenomenon, the whole extended universe. Because this is

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Speaker 1: like a Virgin the show where we give yesterday's pop

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Speaker 1: culture today's takes. I am Rose, Damn you your resident

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Speaker 1: full of a tuk, and I am Fran Toronto, your

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Speaker 1: local Galandriel and Uh in the words of a wise man, fly,

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Speaker 1: how the hell are you so so good? So real,

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Speaker 1: so real? As the Black Eyed Peas would say, both

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Speaker 1: real and so real. We have been truly having a

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Speaker 1: black Eyed Peas spring, and I think it's going to

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Speaker 1: roll over into a black Eyed Peas summer and for

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Speaker 1: sure fall in winter as well. Wait, can we discuss

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Speaker 1: this be has Like all of a sudden, I had

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Speaker 1: a few friends that started listening to it again around

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Speaker 1: the same time that I was revisiting Monkey Business, which,

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Speaker 1: as I've said on the pod before, was one of

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Speaker 1: the first albums I ever purchased with my own money,

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Speaker 1: along with Love Angel Music Baby. And then there was

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Speaker 1: that Black Eyed Peas SNL sketch, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: there zons happening. Yeah, I think they truly have an

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Speaker 1: unshakable grip on all our necks, and yeah, I love

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Speaker 1: that for them. Pump it is an untouchable bob like

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Speaker 1: as an opener to an album, like it's still like

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Speaker 1: holds all the way up, Like it doesn't even feel dated.

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Speaker 1: It feels amazing, it feels current. It could be it's yesterday, today, tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: just for context, like we were like in Joshua Tree,

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Speaker 1: like listening to this whole album and then the interlude

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Speaker 1: from My Humps played where did they go Real Surreal?

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Speaker 1: And we were like Stone were like, are they saying

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Speaker 1: so real or are they saying surreal? And it is.

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Speaker 1: It's a enigma. Also, there was a really great moment

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Speaker 1: at the end of our trip where you asked Justin

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Speaker 1: and I were hugging and just started spontaneously singing, no, lie, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: it's it's really it's really beautiful. Another standout from that

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Speaker 1: album was the bridge that I completely forgot about of

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Speaker 1: Pump It, where they go diamn, dim damn. I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna start singing because then you'll start talking about singing. Wait,

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Speaker 1: speaking of singing, I did listen to the New Florence

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Speaker 1: and the Machine album in preparation for for today. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not excited to hear your take on

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Speaker 1: it because I feel like it's going to be negative.

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Speaker 1: Are you saying maybe you're projecting because you also did

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Speaker 1: not like the album as much as you would have. No,

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Speaker 1: I do love it, but I know that you hate

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Speaker 1: me and want me to Is that the dynamic? I

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Speaker 1: So here's the thing I've already said before Florence was

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Speaker 1: like I'm an O G Florence stand Um, there was

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Speaker 1: really not a lot to latch onto with this album.

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Speaker 1: I fell I. I really liked Daffodil, I love um

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Speaker 1: Free is it Free? The one that's kind of like

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Speaker 1: Thumby and quick Free? Free was the last single she

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Speaker 1: released before the album came out. Yeah, Free is my

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Speaker 1: favorite song. But like when Florence arrived on the music scene,

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Speaker 1: she was a novelty and there was nothing that sounded

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Speaker 1: like her and it was just immediately ingenious. And now

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Speaker 1: I feel like she's made this album three times and

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Speaker 1: I wish that there was something more like the song

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Speaker 1: Free that would have changed her pace or made it

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Speaker 1: seem like more than sensual chamber music for people that

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Speaker 1: used to have tumbler you know what I mean. I

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Speaker 1: see merit in that critique. I'm going to love that. Um.

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Speaker 1: I do think that Florence makes a very specific kind

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Speaker 1: of music. I am very dialed into it and always

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Speaker 1: love it. And I think there's some really beautiful songs

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Speaker 1: on this album, Like I really loved the singles she

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Speaker 1: put out. UM since the album came out, Dreamgirl Evil

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Speaker 1: is what I've been listening to a lot. I really

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Speaker 1: like Cassandra, I really like Girls Against God. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think her last few records, and especially the last one,

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Speaker 1: Highest Hope I, have been a lot quieter and more introspective,

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Speaker 1: and like, I do think there are some bangers on

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Speaker 1: this album. But yes, it's it's a it's very different.

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Speaker 1: I love it. I love Florence. I love how committed

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Speaker 1: she is to her aesthetic, her sound, to making the

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Speaker 1: kind of music she makes. I will say, and like,

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Speaker 1: I don't think this is a good excuse when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about music, but seeing her live is such a

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Speaker 1: transcendent experience. And I did see her what she was

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Speaker 1: touring Highest Hope UM, and even with a record, and

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Speaker 1: that is probably my least favorite of her albums. But

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Speaker 1: even still, seeing the songs live, they just become completely transcendent,

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Speaker 1: and she is such a captivating performer and I just

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Speaker 1: love her. I love the album. I will defend her

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Speaker 1: until the end of the yea UM. But I I

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Speaker 1: do agree that you know, there was a couple of

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Speaker 1: years ago, I think after ceremonials, she said that she

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Speaker 1: wanted to make like an electronic dance album, and that

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Speaker 1: never happened. I think the closest we ever got to

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Speaker 1: it was when she did that song sweet Nothing I love,

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Speaker 1: which I which I love. I do think it might

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Speaker 1: be good for her at some point to do oh

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Speaker 1: like kind of one off experient, a mental album that

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Speaker 1: might sort of like just change things up for her

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Speaker 1: and probably will infuse her music going forward with kind

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Speaker 1: of different vibes. But all that to be said, I

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Speaker 1: really like Dance Fever. I would love to see her

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Speaker 1: tour this album because I think it would just hearing

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Speaker 1: the songs in that context would bring them even more

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Speaker 1: to life for me than they are now. And it's

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Speaker 1: an album that I certainly will spend a lot more

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Speaker 1: time with and have even since it came out. I've

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Speaker 1: been listening to it a lot um when I was

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Speaker 1: in New York this week. I was listening to a

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Speaker 1: lot when I was walking around Brooklyn, and it's just

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Speaker 1: like really beautiful. I love it, and I will kill

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Speaker 1: you for not liking. So here's the thing. It's not

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Speaker 1: that I'm even like criticizing her. I mean, okay, I

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Speaker 1: will say for an album called Dance Fever, there were

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Speaker 1: not a lot of dance songs. Okay, there are. It's

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Speaker 1: just it's they're like three first of all, second of all,

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Speaker 1: but like you can you but you slow dance girls,

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Speaker 1: She's no, but fran this is the thing. All you

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Speaker 1: listen to our fucking remixes and not not everything is

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Speaker 1: going to be like I fear out. I love remixes,

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Speaker 1: but I do not listen to majority remixes. I think that, Honestly,

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Speaker 1: the way I really do feel about Florence is that

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Speaker 1: she was like my like in my the top tier

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Speaker 1: of music artists that I adored for a really long

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Speaker 1: time in my tumbler era. And I think that because

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Speaker 1: she has not changed, but my taste has changed that

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Speaker 1: her music, which is sonically gorgeous and still of its own,

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Speaker 1: kind of just as you said, like unlike anything out there,

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Speaker 1: still is something that I, on a taste level, have

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Speaker 1: maybe outgrown. But I also feel like music artists, especially

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Speaker 1: women in music like shouldn't have to reinvent themselves over

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Speaker 1: and over again, like they are women like Lana or

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Speaker 1: even Adele. Honestly, although I do think A Dell's last

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Speaker 1: album was very different, like that can do the same

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Speaker 1: thing over and over again and they'll always have their base,

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Speaker 1: and I think that that is just something that you know,

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Speaker 1: I really honor and you are someone who like your

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Speaker 1: taste level is essentially you know, a pantheon of Caucasian

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Speaker 1: yodelers with lexapro prescriptions that that you idolize. You know,

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Speaker 1: the Fiona Apple, Alanis k Bush, Florence the Machine. There's

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Speaker 1: one more in there. Taylor doesn't yodel as much. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is all not untrue, but I do I will

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Speaker 1: take I do take umbrage with the idea that Florence

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Speaker 1: hasn't changed, because I think her songwriting has gotten so much,

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Speaker 1: so much, both sharper and softer, like I think she

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Speaker 1: if you really take the time and really listen, the

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Speaker 1: lyrics are so beautiful and her voice is still just haunting.

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Speaker 1: She is a siren, She is a banshee. She is

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Speaker 1: the moment for me? Do you did you not that

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Speaker 1: this is a stupid tangent, But did you notice that

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Speaker 1: like in the little like Spotify album art, Florence in

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Speaker 1: the Machine is is is abbreviated to ft Yeah, girl,

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Speaker 1: do you think so? Do you think she knows? Do

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Speaker 1: you think anyone's told her that? Do you think it's

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Speaker 1: so many trans friends? She's like good Judy's with Sean Fay,

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Speaker 1: Tommy Dorfman. Someone definitely love that your trans mask. Now, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I literally like, how do we become you know, among

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Speaker 1: the echelon of Florence's trans friends, Like, how do we

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Speaker 1: how do we accomplish this? Do you think I don't know?

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Speaker 1: I I have. I have been wondering about this for

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Speaker 1: a while, but I actually don't think I could ever

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Speaker 1: meet her because I'm she is and this is so

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Speaker 1: gay to say she's too important to me. I Similarly,

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Speaker 1: I would never want to meet a share because like,

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Speaker 1: I don't want Share to like ruin share for me,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, there are you some

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Speaker 1: idols you just shouldn't meet. Although I have met Gaga

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Speaker 1: and it was a fun interaction. Okay, wait, I didn't

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Speaker 1: even ask you about your New York trip? How did

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Speaker 1: it go? It was um really good to be in

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Speaker 1: New York. It was also weird. It was disgusting the

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Speaker 1: whole time it was there. It's probably like the most

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Speaker 1: humid weekend of the year, so it was horrible for

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Speaker 1: like looking cute, but it was good. I it weirdly

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Speaker 1: ended up well, Okay, so ap peeling back the Curtain

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Speaker 1: for All the Virgins. For Christmas, friend got me the

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Speaker 1: very sweet gift of two tickets to see New York

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Speaker 1: City Centers On Corps production of Into the Which is

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Speaker 1: your favorite, it's my It's my time favorite, like tied

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Speaker 1: with Sweeney todd Um, but Into the Woods does kind

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Speaker 1: of like eke out a little bit forward and was incredible.

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Speaker 1: First of all, the tickets were amazing. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: I truly it was such a thoughtful gift and such

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Speaker 1: an amazing experience with my with my best friend Ryan.

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Speaker 1: It was great. The production was great. It was like

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Speaker 1: very simple orchestra was on stage, like very minimal staging.

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Speaker 1: Everyone was incredible. Heather, who originated the role of Aida,

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Speaker 1: and Aida was so fucking good as the Witch. Her

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Speaker 1: last Midnight gave me chills. Um Sarah Borellis, I like,

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Speaker 1: am not a huge Sarah Barella stand. She was so

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Speaker 1: fucking good. Her voice is like butter, her tone is

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Speaker 1: so pure. Everything she does is effortless, and the Baker's

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Speaker 1: wife really is like the sleeper hit role of that show.

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Speaker 1: I think she has some of the sup rising lee

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Speaker 1: memorable moments of the show. Um Neil Patrick Harris was

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Speaker 1: was really good to the one thing that is bad

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Speaker 1: about this production, and I think it's transferring to Broadway.

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Speaker 1: That's what the best the like Broadway dot com message

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Speaker 1: boards are saying. According to Ryan So, at the end

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Speaker 1: of the show, the most moving song on the show

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Speaker 1: for me is the finale. Children will listen, So the

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Speaker 1: finale is happening. I'm sobbing, And then like the emotional

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Speaker 1: crux of the finale, the house lights come on and

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Speaker 1: a like community theater group walks out into the aisles

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Speaker 1: to sing the end of the finale song with I

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Speaker 1: haven't never been taken out of a moment so abruptly

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Speaker 1: as the house slights. Not the house lights, that's because yes,

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Speaker 1: it was incredibly jarring. I I went from sobbing to

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Speaker 1: like confused so quickly. It was such a weird choice.

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Speaker 1: And actually, my my brother had seen the show already

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Speaker 1: and the night before had said to me, there's something

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Speaker 1: that happens in the show that I really didn't like.

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Speaker 1: I'm very interested to hear what your take on it is.

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Speaker 1: I won't spoil it for you, And it was this obviously,

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Speaker 1: it's it just really took you out of the moment um.

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Speaker 1: It really cut the like effect of the the effectiveness

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Speaker 1: of the emotional core of that song off in in

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Speaker 1: a really unfortunate way and undercut what the cast was

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Speaker 1: doing on stage, and like, you know, like the people

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Speaker 1: from this community theater, they're really going for it, like

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Speaker 1: standing in the aisles, they're like singing along and like

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Speaker 1: pointing and stuff, and it's it was just not good,

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Speaker 1: not right. I hope if it goes to Broadway they

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Speaker 1: won't do it. I mean, I'm sure it won't because

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Speaker 1: they would have to pay those people and like that

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Speaker 1: just won't happen at every mormants. But yeah, other other

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Speaker 1: than that, it was wonderful. I had a great time.

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Speaker 1: So thank you again. So okay, let's talk about Let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the real show of the week, which was

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Speaker 1: the premiere of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills season twelve.

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Speaker 1: Obviously a premiere episode that was very centered on one

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Speaker 1: thing that we all knew, what I actually forgot. I

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Speaker 1: was Derek and Pek's house getting broken into and Derek

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Speaker 1: getting held a gunpoint. And honestly, it feels like the

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Speaker 1: rest of the season is going to be around like

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Speaker 1: their PTSD. Yeah, the ramifications, you know, will be felt

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Speaker 1: throughout the rest of the season. The moment that was

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Speaker 1: the most chilling for me was at the end when

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Speaker 1: she was sitting outside alone, going I'm fine fine. People

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Speaker 1: are still saying that the Burglaries fake. I after seeing

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Speaker 1: this episode, do not believe it, like crying about not

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Speaker 1: being there. Wait, the most horrible and also entertaining moment

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Speaker 1: of the episode was Sutton talking Kyle and being a

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Speaker 1: completeth no other word for it. And that's like at

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Speaker 1: a very exact usage, like a sociopathic level of self involvement,

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Speaker 1: absolutely no empathy. Like it doesn't even matter how it

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Speaker 1: was edited, there's no way for it to have been

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Speaker 1: edited for it. It was bad. Horrible person, horrible person, great,

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Speaker 1: great reality character. I hate Sutton, and you can and

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Speaker 1: you can be both. You can be both, and actually

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Speaker 1: sometimes they are. They're required to yes, and every every season,

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Speaker 1: I unfortunately have to very toxically rank them. And I

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Speaker 1: really don't know where Sutton's gonna land for me because

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Speaker 1: I hate, hate, hate, hate Sutton, and yet she really

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Speaker 1: is endlessly entertaining because she's so horrible. Um, I have

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Speaker 1: to say like this, I think to read's thing, I'm

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Speaker 1: like on a horrified to find out that people are

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Speaker 1: like doubted that it was ever real, Like, well, that

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Speaker 1: was the thing everyone was saying when the news broke,

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Speaker 1: because I think because the timing of it, it happened

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Speaker 1: the day before they were supposed to start. But I don't.

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Speaker 1: I just think I could see sudden staging, yes, robbery,

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Speaker 1: but I know I don't. I just don't. That would

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Speaker 1: never be my immediate reaction. But I don't actually know

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Speaker 1: anybody that that felt that way, So it must be

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Speaker 1: like a lot of online sentiment. But like, I feel

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Speaker 1: like it's reminding me, honestly of Season two, where they're

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Speaker 1: dealing with an extremely real, painful traumatic event that has

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Speaker 1: been reality TV ified, and I'm it's gonna be hard

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Speaker 1: to watch. Yes, I actually on the plane to New York.

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Speaker 1: I hadn't watched the premier yet, but I was flying

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Speaker 1: Jet Blue there and they had live TV and there

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Speaker 1: was a Beverly Hills marathon happening on, so I tuned.

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Speaker 1: I tuned in for a little bit until my xanex

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Speaker 1: picked in UM and it was season two UM. The

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Speaker 1: episode where they're at Mauriceo's um birthday dinner. They go

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Speaker 1: to Hawaii birthday and Kim misses the plane and then

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Speaker 1: she and her boyfriend show up late, and I just horrible, horrible.

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Speaker 1: Boy was one of Mauricio's golden moments where he was

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Speaker 1: he literally called her on her bullshit. He was just like, no, like,

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Speaker 1: you were late and this is disrespectful, and I just

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Speaker 1: wanted we need to we need to get him back,

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Speaker 1: We need him back. Show there is there is nothing

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Speaker 1: like like a season of Real Housewives when people are

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Speaker 1: related and there is real family drama. That's why New

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Speaker 1: Jersey is still elite. And I will be watching New

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Speaker 1: Jersey the next time I get the stomach flu um.

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Speaker 1: I have to say that as far as like um,

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Speaker 1: just to go back to the Sutton thing, I really

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Speaker 1: really really hate Kyle when she is so spineless in

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Speaker 1: an interaction like that, to be kind of unable to

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Speaker 1: really say what's wrong with going with with what's going on?

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Speaker 1: Because if if you, my extremely good friend, acted like

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Speaker 1: that to me, I would I would like slap you.

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Speaker 1: I would say you're you. I'd be like you are lucky.

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Speaker 1: It's wrong with you. I'd be like, you are lucky.

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Speaker 1: There are another people now right now, get out of

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Speaker 1: my transgender home anyways. I was just like, it's moments

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Speaker 1: like that where I really I just like, have never

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Speaker 1: really loved Kyle as a protagonist for the entire franchise. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I really need her to like grow a spine,

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Speaker 1: because like right now, it's just like not cutting it.

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Speaker 1: She won't, she never will she. Unfortunately, I am back

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Speaker 1: on team Erica. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: I'm not proud of this fact. I don't understand you

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Speaker 1: have you have gone on record saying that she's your favorite.

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Speaker 1: She's no longer my favorite housewife, unfortunately. But I do

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Speaker 1: think that there was a moment of the confessional where

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Speaker 1: she was really trying to evade questions that the producer

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Speaker 1: was asking her, and she was just like they ended

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Speaker 1: up like sharing what the producer was asking her because

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Speaker 1: she was being so indignant. She was like, well fucking duh,

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Speaker 1: like and I just thought that was so iconical. But

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Speaker 1: she was also like dodging questions about the Tom Girardi

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Speaker 1: of it all and like things being settled. She's so

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Speaker 1: she's I don't she's gonna be my favorite from this season.

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Speaker 1: I think the new villain, whatever her face is the

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Speaker 1: new girl coming in who apparently I heard, is rumored

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Speaker 1: to have once like been somewhat involved with Jeffrey Epstein,

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Speaker 1: like she was the sort of a Galaine. Yeah, I mean, god, truly,

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Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, they probably all have affiliation to Jeffrey Epstein, like,

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Speaker 1: let's to be real, like it's but I don't know.

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Speaker 1: We'll see, we'll see, we'll see. Um. But I think

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Speaker 1: you all will need to get used to the fact

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Speaker 1: that we will be probably discussing Beverly Hills weekly on

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Speaker 1: the weekly, and maybe we'll do a Housewives episode, because

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Speaker 1: I think that is one of the things that I

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Speaker 1: did pressure you into us. Are you were the kind

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Speaker 1: of thing to push me over the edge to start

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Speaker 1: watching You're you're calling me, I'm calling you no virgins.

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Speaker 1: It's been so fun engaging with you on Instagram. If

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Speaker 1: you aren't already, please follow our burner Finsta, alt whatever

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Speaker 1: like a virgin for We've been getting suggestions and I mean,

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Speaker 1: not criticism yet, but like I would accept criticism the

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Speaker 1: d M S. I wouldn't necessarily, you know, incorporated into

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Speaker 1: anything I do or say, but I would love to

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Speaker 1: hear what you have to say. How would an ORCS

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Speaker 1: dick even fit in a hobbit. I think Orc dicks

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Speaker 1: must be really spiky. As someone who has had a

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Speaker 1: lot of Lard of the Rings fan fiction, I have

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Speaker 1: spent a lot of time thinking about the anatomy of

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Speaker 1: the different races of Middle Earth, and and most of

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Speaker 1: my preoccupation is with how would a hobbit hole take

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Speaker 1: the dick of saying elf probable? Yeah, hobbitble multiple meanings, Honey,

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Speaker 1: we honestly need to Every time we like use terms,

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Speaker 1: we need to like explain them. For Phoebe, a hobbit

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Speaker 1: hobbit hole is a double entendre. You do Phoebe knows

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Speaker 1: about definition? Got it? Okay? Do you really see yourself

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Speaker 1: as a gladiol? Yeah? I mean what else would I

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Speaker 1: what else would I be? What do you see me as?

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Speaker 1: It's a very important but let's start here. Let's start here. Okay.

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Speaker 1: I think you are more of I don't know that

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Speaker 1: you're an elf. Yeah, they're way too graceful. Um, I

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Speaker 1: think hobbit. I'm probably hobbit. I'm anxious. I can't get

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Speaker 1: a lot done. I feel like, uh I I make

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Speaker 1: a mess of things, but I'm ultimately chaotic good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Hobbits get are giving me because of how much they

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Speaker 1: love their things and they love food and revelry. They're

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Speaker 1: giving me very torus energy. So I do think you

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Speaker 1: are a hobbit. The indulgences of Hobbits and their twelve

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Speaker 1: meals that they have a day is very torrey in behavior.

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Speaker 1: Sucking breakfast honestly, I mean, let's take it back to

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Speaker 1: their little hobbit holes full of plants. My hobbit hole

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Speaker 1: is not filled with plants. Okay, so what what what

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Speaker 1: of the Middle Earthian races do you think? I am well,

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Speaker 1: I was actually going to ask you, Okay, just to

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Speaker 1: answer your question very quickly, I think it's gonna be Wizard.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be Wizard and Unford the Unfortunately, there are

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Speaker 1: no women in the Lord of the Rings franchise, so

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Speaker 1: I can't assign you like because I was going to say,

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Speaker 1: I was almost going to say I could see myself

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Speaker 1: as a dwarf. But there are witches in the Tolkien universe.

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Speaker 1: It just they didn't appear. But but um, I was

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Speaker 1: going to ask you growing up, when you were watching

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Speaker 1: these movies or reading the books, did you supplant yourself

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Speaker 1: on any specific character, because I really feel that this

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Speaker 1: is one of those unique entities where I really did

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Speaker 1: not relate to any character same I was. I was

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Speaker 1: an observer. I was very immersed in the world, but

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Speaker 1: there was no like I'm hermiony there. That's not what

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Speaker 1: the Lord of the Rings was for me, honestly, maybe

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Speaker 1: a testament to like the artifice of relatability and the

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Speaker 1: universal story and how like a lot of Hollywood execs

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Speaker 1: always talk about like you need to be able to

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Speaker 1: see yourself in this character and blah blah blah, and

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Speaker 1: it's like that's actually bullshit, Like a Lord of the

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Speaker 1: Rings had absolutely nothing to do with me. Even the

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Speaker 1: humanity of these characters behind all the fantasy really didn't

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Speaker 1: resonate with me at all. And yet it's a fucking

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Speaker 1: good story. Yes, well, okay, so I want to know

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Speaker 1: what was your first experience with J. R. Tolkien's creations.

401
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Speaker 1: You know, my dad Ad was a big C. S.

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Speaker 1: Lewis fan, and then by default our whole family was,

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Speaker 1: and so you know, we grew up with a lot

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Speaker 1: of Narnia things, reading books Narnia are Narnia or the

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Speaker 1: places you'l Gore Um, and so by association C. S.

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Speaker 1: Lewis was best friends with Tolkien. I think that was

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Speaker 1: something that my dad always talked about, the Witch and

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Speaker 1: the wardrobe boots the house, yes exactly, and so I

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Speaker 1: think by association my dad tried to get me to

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Speaker 1: read the Lord of the Rings books. I have a

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Speaker 1: d H D probably and so definitely couldn't finish any

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Speaker 1: of them, but I definitely checked out the Do you

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Speaker 1: remember the monster sized compilation of the three books with

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Speaker 1: the Ringwraith on the cover that they released in time

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Speaker 1: for the movies? I remember checking it was gorgeous, and

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Speaker 1: I remember checking that out and trying to read it.

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Speaker 1: But ultimately the movies is what solidified my love for

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Speaker 1: this franchise, and then through that the visual companions, the merchandise,

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Speaker 1: the extended edition, and like the theatrical releases, like everything

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Speaker 1: around the culture of Lord the Rings was an obsession

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Speaker 1: for my family, and I, um, did you ever have

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Speaker 1: the ring? Unfortunately I did. I absolutely had the nice

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Speaker 1: one girl, like the one from the catalog, like the

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Speaker 1: official Lord of the Rings jewelry catalog that's sold, like

425
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: the Elvin Star, and like this sword. The merch that

426
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 1: I had that was the most important to me was

427
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: I had an Rwin action figure. It was a set.

428
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 1: It was Urwin who had a horse, Bilbo, and then

429
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: the Ring Wraith also on a horse from the scene

430
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: where they chase Rwin and she goes through the river

431
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: and does her little Caroline Polcheck moment where she's like

432
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,199
Speaker 1: and then the water comes up and yeah, and it

433
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 1: was one of my favorite scenes definitely in that movie,

434
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: if not the entire frame, and the only scene with

435
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: one of the three scenes woman exactly. Okay. But to

436
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: answer the question I asked you, because you didn't ask me.

437
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: It back. My entry point in all things Tolkien was

438
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 1: I received the book The Hobbit as a Hanukkah gift

439
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: one year when I was I want to say, nine

440
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: or ten, before the movies, before the movies, and even

441
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: though before we started recording, you told me that you

442
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 1: thought that I had never actually finished The Hobbit and

443
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: hated it, which um was very hurtful to me. I'm sorry,

444
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: because actually it is definitely one of the defining books

445
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: of my childhood and I remember receiving it so vividly,

446
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 1: and it's like such a route memory for me. And

447
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 1: that's when I fell in love with it and started

448
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: reading the books, and then the movies came out, and

449
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: I was so obsessed with the movies I had them

450
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 1: all on DVD. Well, I had them on VHS first

451
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: and then DVD. Every day for like a year, I

452
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: would start Fellowship of the Ring when I got into bed,

453
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: and that's what would like lull me to sleep. Wow, Okay,

454
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 1: I mean the answer to this question might be obvious,

455
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 1: but like, what about the world of the Hobbit or

456
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: just like tolkien Esque world building in general was so

457
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: captivating to you? Well, I think with the Hobbit itself,

458
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,959
Speaker 1: it is the way that the story is told, and

459
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: I think some of that comes from part of the

460
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: back story of how the Hobbit was created. So you know,

461
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: obviously Lord of the Rings looms larger in the cultural

462
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: consciousness than the Hobbit does. But the Hobbit is what

463
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: was written first, and it wasn't actually written as a book.

464
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: It was a story that J. R. O. Tolkien used

465
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: to tell his kids, and then he turned it into

466
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 1: a book. And that's why the book itself is so episodic,

467
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: Like every chapter is a new adventure that Bilboo goes

468
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: on in which he learned something or find something or

469
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: like saves someone and in a very meta way. Um,

470
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: it's passed down through generations through children via an oral history. Yes,

471
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: and so that is what I immediately latched onto was

472
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: that kind of storytelling nature. I think the my favorite

473
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: part of the Hobbit books is the chapter with the

474
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: trolls where where Nowhere? Um, Yeah, where the trolls kidnapped

475
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: the dwarves and Bilbo and ganned off like outsmart them

476
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: and they turned to stone at the end. The premise

477
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: of the Hobbit for those that don't know, is Bilbo Baggins,

478
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: who is the kind of father figure in the Lord

479
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: of the Rings franchise. That's kind of puts a lot

480
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: of the um plot in motion. Um basically leaves Hobbit

481
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: in for the first time at kind of Gandalf's pressing

482
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: for the first time. He meets Gandalf as well to

483
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: basically go and defeat Smock the Dragons to help to

484
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: help thorn oaken Shield, who is the king under the Mountain,

485
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: reclaim his kingdom which has been usurped by Smock the Dragon,

486
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: and he and a company of twelve question mark Dwarves

487
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: um go travel to Smog's Layer to kind of reclaim it. Yes,

488
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: And then I was very much led into Lord of

489
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: the Rings in a really organic way because that is

490
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 1: how Tolkien intended it to be. Because Lord of the

491
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: Rings is in many ways. You know, Tolkien was creating

492
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: these stories for his children, and his children were growing up.

493
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: So then after he wrote The Hobbit, he then went

494
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: on to create Lord of the Rings, which is obviously

495
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: much more adult and you know, how to kind of

496
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: go and like rheticon a lot of what's in Lord

497
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: of the Rings to make it fit into the universe,

498
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: because the thing is in the books, like the ring

499
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: that Bilbo finds, it's just another like narrative thing. Like

500
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: it's it's not like when when the ring comes into

501
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: play in the Hobbit, it's not the ring of Lord

502
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: of the Rings. You know, it's just like a magical

503
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: ring that turns him invisible. And then in Lord of

504
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: the Rings, you know, he decides, Okay, this is actually

505
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: going to be like you know, the MacGuffin object that

506
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: has all this power and that everyone wants and needs

507
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: to be destroyed. Yeah, and and the Hobbits, I would

508
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: also say, as a race are an encapsulation of like

509
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: a kind of fundamental theme in Tolkien's work, which is

510
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: that heroism comes from the most unexpected places, and that

511
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: you can doubt all you want the like power and

512
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: ability of someone who doesn't look or feel or sound

513
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: like a hero, someone who doesn't even want to be

514
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: a hero um and yet here they are. And like

515
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: I think that in both The Hobbit and a little

516
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: bit of lorther Rings as well, they demonstrate basically Joseph

517
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: Campbell's hero's journey, but like the refusal of the call

518
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: is like a quintessential stage in Joseph Campbell's hero's journey,

519
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: and in The Hobbit Bill it was like, fuck not

520
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: am I leaving Hobbit in you know what I mean?

521
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: And like Freddie gets tricked into it and the movies,

522
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: that's changed and they and they make it his choice

523
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: on the trip, which I do think like is kind

524
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: of narratively better. I like that, but you know whatever whatever.

525
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: Whereas whereas in Lord of the Rings, Frodo does make

526
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: the choice to go on this journey. And you know,

527
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: when we were talking before about this episode, you brought

528
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: up the idea of the chosen one and I think

529
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings specifically, it's such a subversion of

530
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: that narrative of the Chosen One, which I think the

531
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: Chosen One is kind of like an almost more modern

532
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: fantasy take than fantasy that was being created in the

533
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: time that Tolkien was rightening this um it's actually very old.

534
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: It's like it like predates a lot of well, I

535
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: I just mean like in terms of like contemporary literature,

536
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: because you know, these this kind of book that Tolkien

537
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: was writing wasn't being really written for adults at the time,

538
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: and Chosen the Chosen One idea does feel very like

539
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: juvenile to me, because it's it's very something that like

540
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: a young person in a story is like is grafted

541
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: onto them that they're the only person and who can

542
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: like save the kingdom or like defeat the dark Lord

543
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: or whatever. And in Lord of the Rings, you know,

544
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: Frotto isn't chosen. He just like wines he inherits the

545
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: Ring and he makes the decision to go on this

546
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: very arduous journey, and there's nothing like inherently good in

547
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: him that helps him like defeat the bad guy, and

548
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: actually in the end he gives in to the evil.

549
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: He does not throw the ring into Mount Doom. He

550
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: actually is going to keep it for himself, and it's

551
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,719
Speaker 1: only because Gallum attacks him that the ring ends up

552
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: being destroyed. On this whole choke, You're so right as well.

553
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: It's like such a spin on like the Chosen One narrative,

554
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: because like dating back to literally the Bible, which is

555
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: like maybe one of the o g like chosen narrative stories,

556
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: a story that maybe didn't. I don't think the Bible

557
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: necessarily influenced a lot of Tolkien's work, even though a

558
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: lot of Christians love to create allegories and like alignments

559
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: between Lord of the Rings and the Bible. But like C. S.

560
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: Lewis was very in her Bible, and they were best friends,

561
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: and so I think that or more than I mean,

562
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 1: do you think do you think they were? They were?

563
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: They were think I think they at least jerked off

564
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: together once. They have definitely, yeah, pulled their padges in

565
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 1: a dark room, pulling your padge. Yeah, they were. They

566
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: were definitely circle jerking in a dark room together, well,

567
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: you know, creating a song song of Solomon and probably

568
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: um but uh I when you come no, not as

569
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,439
Speaker 1: like Aslan and Gandalf are kind of like The Lion,

570
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: the Witch and the aster Glide, the Lion, the Witch

571
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: and the Boy, but not Aster Glade hopefully gun Oil.

572
00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 1: Oh No, Anyways, I don't think that UM Tolkien and

573
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: UM C. S. Lewis's relationship. I think is actually very

574
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 1: reflected in Lord of the Rings, particularly homoerotic, if not

575
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: homo social, if not homo erotic, relations between all of

576
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: the male characters. Because let's get into that. I mean,

577
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: you talk a lot about I mean, you post a

578
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,959
Speaker 1: lot of fans, a lot of fans are okay, Lord

579
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: of the Rings is gay down because there are no women.

580
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 1: There's no women. Um and Phoebe wants to know producer

581
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: Phoebe wants to know why there are no women and

582
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: there's no women, probably because Tolkien was like gay or

583
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 1: in the thirties when women basically didn't exist. Because I mean,

584
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: and that's honestly, there's a Sophoebe. There's a kind of

585
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 1: like lore within the Lord of the Rings that there

586
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: are no female dwarfs and that dwarves just spring out

587
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: of holes in the ground. And I think that that,

588
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: honestly is kind of indicative of how Tolkien was thinking

589
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: about and in that they really just did. The only

590
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: service they provided was to reproduce and even the women

591
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: that we think of when we think of Lord of

592
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 1: the Rings, like in the books, canonically there are two

593
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 1: women who actually appear in the plot, and that is

594
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: glad Reel and a Owen, because our Win is only

595
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: mentioned in the appendices, and they only beefed up her

596
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: roles for the movie because the scene where she rescues Frodo,

597
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: that's a whole different character in in the books, which

598
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 1: I love, and you know, Arewin was originally supposed to

599
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: have a much bigger part in the second movie. She

600
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: was supposed to be in the battle at Helm's Deep.

601
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: You broke that news to me when we watched together,

602
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: and I was, I'm so mad, and I think, like,

603
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: in some ways, it's kind I understand the narrative choice,

604
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: because especially in the second movie, we're supposed to understand

605
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: the singularity of a Owen as a female warrior, and

606
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 1: like people of the time, we're like, what, we can

607
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 1: have two of them, because like, you know, people want

608
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: to understand that, and I guess it like it does

609
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: maybe make it less impactful when in the third movie,

610
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: a when kills the Witch King of Angmar and says,

611
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: I am no man, but also like they're gonna be

612
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: more than one woman. They're also just unfortunately just not

613
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 1: very complex characters like a Win and Arwin are kind

614
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: of one. Like Darwin's whole arc is that, like she

615
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: is kind of bad us in the first movie, and

616
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: then the second movie she's like, oh my heart broken,

617
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: I'm dying. She literally spends both of those movies like

618
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: laying in repose, like in a gorgeous gown, being like father, like,

619
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: am I going to be immortal? Or will I find love? Like?

620
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 1: And then she gives up her immortality for a man.

621
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,919
Speaker 1: For Vigo Mortenson, we've seen his dick. He has shown

622
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: his dick on screen. I don't think she's getting anything special.

623
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: And he's also famously short. He's very short. Did you

624
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: know that he's extremely short? Wait? Did they photoshop him

625
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: so that he was taller than Arwin? I actually don't

626
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: remember him feeling shorter in the movies. They really played

627
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: around with height in every way they could. They did.

628
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: There's lots of perspective um, you know, trickery in the

629
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings films, thanks to Peter Jackson and

630
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: the magic he created through these movies to go back

631
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: to this kind of like chosen one thing. You know,

632
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: Ericorn is kind of a chosen one narrative. Frodo's kind

633
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: of this. You know. There there are a lot of

634
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: different like ways we're in. Tolkien I think was really

635
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: a student of like the narrative, and he like was

636
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: extremely literary. They were both Cambridge girls and so they

637
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: were and like, you know, Tolkien was like a linguist,

638
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 1: Like he literally took the languages very seriously and created literal,

639
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: full languages. It wasn't just kind of like a oh,

640
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 1: I just need four lines and I'm gonna make up

641
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: some things, and then there is there's el He created

642
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: a whole language. He also, you know, there's so much text.

643
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,879
Speaker 1: He not only wrote all of the appendices for Lord

644
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: of the Rings. There's the sill Marillion, which tells the

645
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: backstory of you know, sal RAN's rise to power and

646
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: kind of all the mythology of Middle Earth. There's tons

647
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 1: of short stories written in the world of Lord of

648
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: the Rings. There's actually one which explains the backstory between

649
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: Galadril and Gandalf. Did you know that they used to

650
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: fuck what, you know, Gandalf when he used to be

651
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: a mayor, which are like the like kind of angelic

652
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: beings that that the wizards are when they're not in

653
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: like human form. He and Galadriel used to be a thing,

654
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: like thousands and thousands of years ago. Yeah. But then

655
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: when he finally like comes to Middle Earth in the

656
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: form of Gandalf, she is married. Um, and so they

657
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,919
Speaker 1: you know, can't be together. And that's why I guess

658
00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: on the Hobbit movies they have kind of a weird

659
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: well Giandolf unfortunately still feels pretty gay to me, or

660
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 1: maybe everyone's gay and everyone's gay. Yeah, we go back

661
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: to the homo homo roticism of it all we have.

662
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: You know, you you you wrote some ships. I wrote

663
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,839
Speaker 1: some ships down, so the big ones are Salmon Frodo. Obviously.

664
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: There's even you should go search um Lord of the

665
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:27,919
Speaker 1: Rings Secret Lovers on YouTube because there's a TBS promo

666
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: in which they like have edited it to look as

667
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: the Lord of the Rings is a love story about

668
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: Salmon Frodo. Um in the Hobbit trilogy, which you know

669
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: is not good, but I definitely watched um. Bilbo and

670
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: Thorin very much have a vibe that it's a fan

671
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: fiction about them. Legolas and Ericorn are kind of a thing.

672
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: I personally am more interested in Legolas and Gimley. I

673
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: was gonna say, like Lass and Gimley, I Legolas was

674
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 1: there's lots of crouching down in that relationship. Let's just

675
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: say that. I'm sure. I'm sure they have, you know,

676
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 1: maybe a step stool involved at some point. Lego Loss

677
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: was really like the sexual wakening for so many fags,

678
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: and and for myself, I had the hugest crush on

679
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: Orlando Bloom as Lego Loss. To talk about that for

680
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: a little bit at the fense that Lego Loss this

681
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: is so corny, but Legolas was like a kind of

682
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 1: gender nonconforming, kind of like, you know, girl, Lego like

683
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: a lot giving is giving heathen skirt, tides wig, you know,

684
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 1: or maybe Legolass is given like in in their in

685
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 1: their Instagram bio. It's like any pronouns are fine, yeah, yeah,

686
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,280
Speaker 1: any right, yeah, Lego Loss is giving that. All elves

687
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 1: in general, I think, are kind of like they their

688
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 1: their race and world seems to exist so much outside

689
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,879
Speaker 1: of Middle Earth and like the forest, yes, and then

690
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: and then they like leave to go to war to

691
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 1: go to val Howl or something. They go to like

692
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: basically heaven, but it's like not really heaven. It's just

693
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,439
Speaker 1: this like perfect world where they the undying land, which

694
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 1: is so sorry, uninteresting as like a as a like

695
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: in terms of a writer's perspective, like there's nothing interesting

696
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 1: to me about going to like a heaven place. And

697
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: in my opinion, controversially, I think that the last thirty

698
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: minutes of the third movie are extremely boring. Well there's well,

699
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: you know, there's so many fake endings and the movie

700
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: drags on, but you know the fact that the that

701
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,879
Speaker 1: the elves go somewhere did give us the I think

702
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: the best line of all the movies, which is when

703
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 1: Galadriel says I passed the test, I will diminish and

704
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: go into the West and remain, which is my favorite

705
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: meme of all time. Yeah, it is the one that

706
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 1: I post like twenty times a year. Look all shall

707
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: love me and despair. That's my Twitter bio. No, it's

708
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: actually a perfect Twitter bio for you not gonna lie. Yes,

709
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: um okay. So, in terms of other queer coded characters,

710
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: the urukai um, which are the kind of bastardized or

711
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:15,760
Speaker 1: that's that Saramon creates. He's bred to be killing machines. Yes, um,

712
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: they I guess it might be because they have a

713
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: high poet, definitely a marinator. The Hearts were coming in

714
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,839
Speaker 1: with big stars and they were going, yeah, we're going

715
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: to get those hobbits. Yeah, I'm just like imagining an orc,

716
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: like like putting a third arrow into bor a mirror.

717
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 1: Like just keep dying and Dyane and Diane and Dane.

718
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: We got there, We got there. Funny enough, the Orcs

719
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: were the only roles up in the show outside of

720
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: the main characters that were played by women. I think

721
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: I think almost a third, they say, of the Orcs

722
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,800
Speaker 1: in the movie franchise were played by women. Love. Um,

723
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: diversity and inclusion representation matters. Sure. Oh my god, Phoebe

724
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: is dying in the booth hearing things about Tolkeen very

725
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: basically the first time, because Phoebe's never seen the little

726
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 1: of the Rings trilogy and were like the book context

727
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: or read the books, so we're like contextualizing all of

728
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: this and it's just bizarre out of context. Um. But yeah,

729
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 1: I I feel like I growing up. I don't know

730
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 1: if I really picked up on the homo eroticism of

731
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 1: like these male friendships, but male homo social friendships were

732
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: the string that pulled a lot of you are you

733
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 1: know that that kind of vibe? Yeah, and they like

734
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 1: caress each other's cheek for like like like a fully

735
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: holding yeah, I love you well, even um when Boromir

736
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: dies in Fellowship of the Ring, like I mean obviously

737
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,359
Speaker 1: he and Ericorn were fucking and sucking you know when

738
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,240
Speaker 1: the Hobbits were sleeping at night. That was a loss

739
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: for sure. Also, maybe there's maybe some like incest a

740
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: foot between like bar Mere and far Mere or Larmer

741
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: so hot fer Farmer is maybe hottest next to like

742
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 1: you know what I hate is that a Win is

743
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 1: like I'm this girl boss warrior. I killed the witch

744
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: king of Angmer, and then at the end she's like, oh,

745
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to lay down my sword and Mary farm here.

746
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 1: That was so boring, so lazy, because a Owen and

747
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 1: Rwin obviously should have hooked up. Yeah, absolutely, but like

748
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: a Owen falling in love with Farming here, Like I

749
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: don't think they even expanded on that in the extended edition,

750
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 1: Like it was just this is what I'm saying born,

751
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 1: which is why the second movie is the best movie

752
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,720
Speaker 1: and a win. Oh the second movie, absolutely, True Towers

753
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: is the best movie. True Beard. Are you kidding me? Yes? Absolutely?

754
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 1: Tree Beard is giving radical Ferry, also played by Jonathan

755
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: Rees Davies, who played Gimli, who also played the elephant

756
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,919
Speaker 1: in my favorite childhood film, Cats Don't Dance. Get ready

757
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: for that episode. By my god, you are going to

758
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 1: have to watch it, I know looking forward to it. Um.

759
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: I would love to ask you if you thought Gandalf

760
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: was gay because it was played by Ian McKellen, who

761
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 1: is famously gay, but Sean Connery, who is famously not gay,

762
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: did turn down the role. Um. I think Gandolf transcends sexuality,

763
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: so he's a gender. I think Gandolf is a um

764
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 1: trans elder. Oh oh, I love that trans elder, trans elder,

765
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 1: no transferm trans elder who is kind of like, I

766
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 1: don't care about shaving anymore. You know. She said, I

767
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: do not have to present to you in a certain way.

768
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 1: Non binary trans elder, non binary people don't owe you.

769
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: Androgen is exactly exactly. Oh my gosh, especially when she

770
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:56,240
Speaker 1: comes back as Gandalf the White with that lace laid.

771
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: What were the hair and makeup? People on Lord of

772
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 1: the Rings doing that people in current day movies cannot replicate.

773
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 1: Like we saw Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness

774
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: last night, and Doctor Stranger's hairline was so clocky. And

775
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: then in fucking nine the nineties, we had people blending

776
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 1: Gandalf edges like butter but it was melted. I honestly, okay,

777
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,320
Speaker 1: I would love to talk about like watching the franchise

778
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: in adulthood versus watching his childhood, because I recently rewatched

779
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 1: and that was actually one of the things that I

780
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 1: noticed was the way that Gandalf really was kind of queenie,

781
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: Like he loved a reveal, Okay, like when he came

782
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,839
Speaker 1: up all pretended to be Saramon just for the gang,

783
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: just for and then he did it again when he

784
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: went to Um not Helm's Deep, when he went to

785
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: rohan to to find the poisoned king. I think they

786
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: would play Gandalf in The Lord of the Rings happening

787
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: the funk up. Absolutely not, but like literally when he

788
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: came to rohan On and he was, you know, trying

789
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: to um basically eradicate the poison from Theoden and like

790
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 1: is giving gand off the gray and then like you thought,

791
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 1: you thought if the White she brings it to you

792
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: every bush. She took out her cloak and she said yeah,

793
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 1: and then like you know, um aer Gornett and like

794
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: a last backup dance kind of like you were telling

795
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 1: me that. Ian McKellen turned down another role to do this. Yeah.

796
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so Ian McKellen did not play Dumbledore because

797
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 1: he was like, well, I already played Gandoff, so like

798
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do another wizard moment. Yeah, I

799
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 1: would be way too repetitive. Like those are the two

800
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 1: most famous Elder Wizards ever aside from Merlin, you know

801
00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 1: what I mean, So like for one person to play

802
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: all of them just would be not right. Um. I

803
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 1: do love the battle between Saramon and Gandalf and Fellowship

804
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: of the Rings where they're just basically like grunting at

805
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: each other. They're like with their staffs are like just

806
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 1: like hours of footage that are just welcome to like

807
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: a virgin. And then when she's like Seremon is like

808
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 1: spinning the staff and then goes up into the ceiling. Yeah,

809
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 1: that is actually and then like does a tip. I

810
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: am by no means a gamer, but at the time

811
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: I will I was a loser and had no friends.

812
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: So the Lord of the Rings games. Video games are

813
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 1: extention course, they're all I'm not. I'm not a video game.

814
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 1: And anyway, The Two Towers was kind of the first

815
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 1: real video game to hit the market and it was amazing,

816
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 1: and then they really leveled up with the Return of

817
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 1: the King, which is definitely the best video game. But like,

818
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 1: I'm just bringing it up because like the majority of

819
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: you playing this game is like Gandalf and others just

820
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 1: doing ha ha, you know, like the entire time, um,

821
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 1: and it never it never got old. Like I remember,

822
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,879
Speaker 1: I like completed the Return of the King video game

823
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 1: like seventeen times in my in my childhood. I love that.

824
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 1: I just searched Lord of the Rings thunderpost remix in

825
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: YouTube and John John Williams really upset M. But you

826
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: know what, I was obsessed with the song that Billie

827
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 1: Boyd who plays Pippin um sings. What is that and

828
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 1: that has a great remix? Yes, yes, yes, literally google

829
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 1: and we should listen to it right now. It's an

830
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 1: amazing club remix of Pippins song Edge of Night. This

831
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: is not the one that I was thinking of, but

832
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:51,800
Speaker 1: I'm still feeling it. Yeah, it's good. It's good as skips. Okay,

833
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: that was kind of post. Will be adding this to

834
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 1: my UM Hot Girl Walk playlist. Love that. Um anyways,

835
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 1: I did love that song as well. I I will

836
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 1: complain briefly that, um, there are too many songs in

837
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 1: general in the Lord of the Rings books, too many songs,

838
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 1: too many poems. They love to sing a song, they

839
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 1: love to say riddles in rhyme riddles. Oh my god,

840
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 1: Oh my god. The Hobbit is prime predominantly riddles like it. Well,

841
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: that's how in the original you know, telling of the Hobbit,

842
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:29,800
Speaker 1: Gallum is much more of a sort of like tricksie

843
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 1: character than an outright villain. Yeah. But the riddles were

844
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 1: like very like snriddles in the very snapple bottle cap

845
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: kind of riddles like and then and then a popsicle.

846
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 1: The songs were giving very like dove secrets chocolate like

847
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 1: like I don't know, like I just feel like a

848
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 1: lot of the songs were very sacharin and did not

849
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: move the plot at all, and very just as a

850
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 1: writer from a writer's perspective, like indulgent and like Tolkien

851
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 1: needed an I'm sorry like they both of them needed editors.

852
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,760
Speaker 1: I think C. S. Lewis is better at editing himself

853
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 1: because his books were like a little bit more for children.

854
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 1: But like when they were sitting there, like at the

855
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 1: Eagleman Child, the pub that they famously wrote, like their

856
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 1: books at together, they should have edited. They're just like

857
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 1: us writing books in a fucking coffee shop and a

858
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:21,399
Speaker 1: fucking guy. Yeah. Yeah, Tolkien and C. S Lewis sitting

859
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 1: at their laptops across from each other, each with ice

860
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 1: oat latte is being like, oh yeah, I'm thinking that

861
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 1: like maybe Gimbly is going to have like an arc

862
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 1: here and then and then C. S Lewis is like, yeah,

863
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 1: that sounds great, bro, and then like do you want

864
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,959
Speaker 1: to go in the bathroom and each other all, hey,

865
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 1: do you think that you can send this stuff to

866
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 1: your agent? Like, oh, I don't have an agent, bro,

867
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but like that is a kind of like,

868
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 1: you know, Hollywood, I wonder if they're CS Lewis, j R. R.

869
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 1: Tolkien real person fan pic ship. Definitely, there's one thousand

870
00:52:54,120 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: percent us. Yep, there is, Okay, one grade I have

871
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 1: with Lord of the Rings, which is first side from

872
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,720
Speaker 1: the women the side from the back of the No women. Okay,

873
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 1: first of all, it's very gay. Lord of the Rings,

874
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:19,399
Speaker 1: that obviously is very gay. Everyone's fighting over a piece

875
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: of jewelry. Um, I love that, love that they really

876
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 1: just go check out the s and sale. There's like

877
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 1: always fifteen. But what the fuck does Saron even want

878
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 1: with the ring? Like there's no there's nothing, there's no

879
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: like specification about what it's going to do. When he

880
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:43,839
Speaker 1: gets it, it's just like he becomes more powerful. That's

881
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 1: kind of whine. Cambellian narratives are often very flat and

882
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: like like especially when it's like in action, but like

883
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: it's like the same thing as we like we always

884
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 1: talk about with Marvel movies. It's like they spend the

885
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:00,879
Speaker 1: whole movie looking for this thing that like you don't

886
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 1: even really get why they need. The motivation is not

887
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: necessarily there, and the villain is not that interesting because

888
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 1: all he wants is power and immortality. And I guess

889
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 1: it's not about the destination, it's about the journey. It's

890
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: about the journey. It really is, um and and the

891
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 1: the films are like the plots are really complex and

892
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: yet extremely simple because they follow archetypes and I think

893
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 1: it's a cock ring. I think Salaron is a huge

894
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 1: cock and the ring will um adjust. I was going

895
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 1: to say the ring famously adjusted size, and so if

896
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 1: you put it around your keen um, that would actually

897
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: be a really useful invention, like a metal adjustable cock ring. Okay, well,

898
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 1: like how I feel like Hobbits probably have a lot

899
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 1: of orgies in Hobbitant. Also, we have said this on

900
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 1: the podcast before we need to go to New Zealand

901
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 1: and go to Hobbiton. Someone needs to sponsor us to

902
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: do this. We will do ads for whatever fucking New

903
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 1: Zealand Board of Tourism, anyone, they are the borders even

904
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 1: open in New Zealand. I don't care. They just like

905
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 1: have they are they holding? Lord? You can you can

906
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 1: put me in a barrel like the dwarves in the

907
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 1: hobbit and send me down the river. I just want

908
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 1: to go to Hobbiton. Yeah, and Lord will be there

909
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 1: at at the edges, at the edges of the and

910
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 1: she she's you know, she's in full eleven GARB and

911
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 1: she's like, oh, do you think Lord likes Lord of

912
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,240
Speaker 1: the Rings? Lord of the Rings? I mean she obviously

913
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: I think that Lord of the Rings has to be

914
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 1: integral to New Zealand like Kiwi culture, right, Like they're

915
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 1: probably inextricably linked. So I would imagine that she is

916
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:38,439
Speaker 1: a Lord of the Rings fan, but she famously only

917
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: watches a few movies a year. Has Lord ever uttered

918
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 1: the words fool of a too? No, she hasn't, unfortunately,

919
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 1: but she has shushed a lot of people, which Gandalf

920
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:52,359
Speaker 1: does do. This is what the whole podcast has been.

921
00:55:55,680 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 1: I think and Sarmon are giving such x energy, Like, yeah,

922
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 1: they so obviously used to date, and there's a lot

923
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 1: and there was a bad breakup. Yeah, and Gandolf like

924
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 1: you know, like really wants his like Joni Mitchell vinyl collection. Okay,

925
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 1: I'm retracting my earlier sting. Oh no, here's what it is, bitch,

926
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:20,920
Speaker 1: here's what it is. So I was gonna say I

927
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 1: was going to retract my statement that Gandalf was like

928
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 1: trans Elder because I was gonna say, like, no, Gandolf's

929
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 1: gay because he and No they were excess and then

930
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:37,240
Speaker 1: Gandalf and Transition and and Sourmont has been a bitter

931
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 1: bitch about it ever since. Yeah, it's giving homeop a

932
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 1: bit it's giving, trans transporobic, transphobic gay. Oh my god,

933
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 1: we just unlocked this bitch. How could you be transphobic

934
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:49,880
Speaker 1: and have a lace front like that? Like, come on,

935
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:54,359
Speaker 1: have you met any drag queens ever? Have you met RuPaul? Well,

936
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:56,879
Speaker 1: RuPaul's lace front is so, I mean, the best lace

937
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 1: front of money money can buy. Who's your favorite Lord

938
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: of the Rings villain? Probably the witch King of Angmar.

939
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:09,919
Speaker 1: He was pretty sick from the first movie to the end.

940
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:14,280
Speaker 1: You're actually a percent right forgive me, um, I would

941
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 1: say in the words, in the words of Charlene, if

942
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 1: you don't have any pronouns, I'm going to use the

943
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: one that you look like, Oh my god, that's please

944
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: don't follow. Don't don't follow anyways. Um. I think they

945
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 1: were um a kind of transcendent villain that had so

946
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 1: many different had, you know, an elevation onto the dragon

947
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 1: that was really satiating and Gallum to me got repetitive

948
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:45,919
Speaker 1: and annoying. Saramon was queeny, but actually removed himself from

949
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 1: a lot of the movie. He wasn't he was supposed

950
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 1: to be. I'm sure you know this, Like a big

951
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 1: part of the third film, Slash Book. We're in even

952
00:57:56,160 --> 00:58:00,200
Speaker 1: after Um destroys the Ring, they have to go back

953
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 1: to Eisngard to fight Saruman and take over Rising Guard.

954
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: But to me, like, yeah, the witching of Angmar is

955
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: like maybe the most boss as bitch of the villains.

956
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 1: What about you, Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna actually throw

957
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 1: out a little surprise here and let you know that

958
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 1: maybe not my favorite, but I think in terms of performances,

959
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 1: Benedict Cumberbatch of smileg actually eats in the Hobbit trilogy.

960
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:32,439
Speaker 1: I forgot that he did that. We have not really

961
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 1: touched on the Hobbit trilogy much because it's bad. The

962
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: first movie is actually really good. Well, when you know

963
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 1: the story behind the Hobbit trilogy, it's actually really sad

964
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 1: the way it all went down, And I would I

965
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 1: would suggest I'm going to give like a very like

966
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 1: truncated explainer on this, and if you want something that's

967
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 1: a little more in depth, I would really recommend watching

968
00:58:55,800 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 1: Lindsay Ellis's trio of video essays about the Hobbit on YouTube.

969
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 1: But basically, The Hobbit was initially supposed to be two

970
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 1: movies directed by Gamma del Toro, which would have been incredible,

971
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 1: and they were going to be much more like truer

972
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:15,720
Speaker 1: to the books, like they were going to be really

973
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 1: like for children, like have a like a distinctive visual

974
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: style that was much more Del Toro than it was

975
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 1: Peter Jackson and Lord of the Rings. And then they

976
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 1: had already done two years of pre production on The

977
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 1: Hobbit when Gammo del Toro was fired and they brought

978
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 1: Peter Jackson into take over the movies and make them

979
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:47,120
Speaker 1: much more stylistically in line with Lord of the Ring

980
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 1: and to reference Lord of the Rings much more, because

981
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: you know, there's Um in the Hobbit, there's a necromancer who,

982
00:59:56,080 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 1: like you find out, is actually into sky Is, but

983
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 1: like it's kind of just like an afterthought in the books,

984
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 1: and like they make it such a big plot in

985
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 1: the movies and Um. There's also a lot of stories

986
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 1: about how like when they were shooting the films, like

987
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 1: it was originally supposed to be two and then they

988
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 1: made the decision to make them three, but it happened

989
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 1: while the movies were already shooting, and then none of

990
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 1: the cast ever knew like which movie the scene they

991
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 1: were shooting was supposed to go in. Um that a

992
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 1: lot of the actors who played the dwarves were like

993
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 1: really mistreated by the production company, and um it, actually

994
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 1: the Hobbit had this whole political controversy in which like

995
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 1: labor laws were written in New Zealand because of it.

996
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 1: It's just like it was a huge mess and you

997
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:48,920
Speaker 1: can definitely feel it in those movies, which are like

998
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:52,560
Speaker 1: the first one is pretty good, the second one is

999
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 1: good because of Benedict Cumberbatch's smile and if you go

1000
01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 1: and look at any of the behind the scenes info

1001
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:02,560
Speaker 1: of him doing the most and capture like it's obviously

1002
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 1: like kind of funny because he's crawling around on the floor,

1003
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 1: but like it's a good performance. And his scenes with

1004
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 1: Bilbo in the cavern are so good, and they have

1005
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 1: great chemistry obviously, like anyone who's ever watched the BBC

1006
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 1: Sherlock knows the ben Nick Coombrad and Martin Freeman have

1007
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:21,919
Speaker 1: really good chemistry. But um, yeah, he's just a really

1008
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 1: fun villain. And I wish that we had gotten to

1009
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 1: see Gammo del Toro's version of the Hobbit. I also

1010
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 1: do love there's an animated movie of the Hobbit that

1011
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 1: I watched a lot when I was a kid that

1012
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with. I didn't watch that either. There also,

1013
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 1: similarly is an animated version of the line The Witch

1014
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 1: and the Wardrobe. But I was obsessed and I was

1015
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 1: a good Oh my god, the Witch in that movie.

1016
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:47,479
Speaker 1: It's with her little skull cat. So yeah, um, okay,

1017
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 1: we should do a Narnia episode honestly more nor it's

1018
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 1: too wholesome, that's honestly, like um. Something that I resent

1019
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 1: for no logistical reason, only for a personal one is

1020
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 1: that like Narnia and Middle Earth and the stories that

1021
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 1: come with them are extremely like family friendly stories, like

1022
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 1: because they were both very Christian and very oxford Ian

1023
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 1: and very like kind of conservative, like there were no

1024
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 1: women and there, you know, And I think that, like

1025
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:21,400
Speaker 1: I I do think that the film franchise of The

1026
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: Lord Rings is like untouchable, Like I would not change

1027
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 1: a thing about it, aside for the fact that has

1028
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 1: no women and no people. But that's also why we

1029
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 1: have Game of Thrones, because the whole point of Game

1030
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 1: of Thrones is it's a deconstruction of these classical fantasy

1031
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 1: books where the women have no agency and everyone's like

1032
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: like really just and true and like good triumphs of evil,

1033
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 1: and you know, Game of Thrones is like such a

1034
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 1: subversion of that, and I think it's why it was

1035
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 1: so popular. But also like we we wouldn't have that

1036
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 1: if Lord of the Rings hadn't saved the way for

1037
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 1: you know, the mainstream success of fantasy, because we also

1038
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:09,440
Speaker 1: can't forget that these movies were huge box office successes

1039
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 1: and one like a trillion oscars. They literally the third

1040
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 1: movie tied from most oscars ever awarded to a film

1041
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 1: with Titanic, and then after that Avatar, I believe. But um,

1042
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 1: you can't wait for Avatar the Way of Water, I know,

1043
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 1: um speaking of like future future stuff and like what

1044
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 1: what happens now to this franchise in mainstream media? Amazon

1045
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 1: is going to make a TV show about the stories

1046
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:38,439
Speaker 1: of the Cima Realian I believe. I think it'll be

1047
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 1: extremely tough for them to build a mythology without referencing

1048
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 1: Peter Jackson's work, even though it looks it looks pretty

1049
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 1: stylistically different, and also like there's people of color and

1050
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 1: women and I love, Yeah, that'll that'll matter enough to me.

1051
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 1: I I although it already has created a lot, it

1052
01:03:57,040 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 1: has unearthed a lot of really ugly racism on line.

1053
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 1: I'm not looking forward to what that like, At least, thankfully,

1054
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 1: I'm not on the part of the Internet where there's

1055
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:12,840
Speaker 1: any discourse about that happening, so thank god too. Yeah,

1056
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:16,560
Speaker 1: but it fucking sucks that it's happening, and like you

1057
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 1: all are fucking racist. Yeah, And I think, honestly, Peter

1058
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 1: Jackson's like kind of greatest weakness was the level of

1059
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 1: detail in his textual awareness of the books, like he

1060
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 1: was a student of the appendices and like all the

1061
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:36,600
Speaker 1: stories that came with the films. And even though the

1062
01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 1: adaptation is as true as an adaptation can get in

1063
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:43,680
Speaker 1: terms of trying to service the original fandom of the books,

1064
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 1: that that ultimately gave us, you know, some of the

1065
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 1: problems that we're talking about now in terms of what irscasting,

1066
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 1: but also like story wise, making it a little boring

1067
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 1: sometimes because what we find entertaining in terms of plot

1068
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:01,000
Speaker 1: and character in the nineteen thirties is very different than

1069
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:03,640
Speaker 1: what we find entertaining today. Well, that's why I'm very

1070
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:06,200
Speaker 1: interested to see what this new era of Lord of

1071
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:10,600
Speaker 1: the Rings media looks like telling different stories in that universe.

1072
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:12,920
Speaker 1: And there is kind of a parallel to that happening

1073
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 1: with Game of Thrones, because you know, right around the

1074
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 1: same time that the new Lord of the Rings show

1075
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 1: comes out, we're getting a new Game of Throne series

1076
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 1: on HBO Max that similarly takes place in that universe,

1077
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:29,080
Speaker 1: but a different time period. So I'm, I guess excited

1078
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 1: for this new era of you know, looking at these

1079
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 1: legacy fantasy properties and finding ways to tell expanded, more inclusive,

1080
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:45,200
Speaker 1: and maybe more interesting stories in familiar worlds, maybe grounded

1081
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:50,920
Speaker 1: in kind of contemporary sensibility more, you know, I think that,

1082
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 1: So maybe we'll finally get to see someone eat a

1083
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:56,760
Speaker 1: hobbit hole. Yeah, Like the most contemporary thing about the

1084
01:05:56,800 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 1: film franchise is maybe its sense of er and how

1085
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:03,320
Speaker 1: you know those jokes are still funny when we watch

1086
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 1: them now, yeah, exactly, or like touch me, you know

1087
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:10,680
Speaker 1: what I mean. Like those are like moments that are

1088
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 1: still funny because the characters are built really nicely. But

1089
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:21,800
Speaker 1: I shall not past talk about transphobia. I mean, well,

1090
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 1: I mean but talking to herself, That's what I was

1091
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:27,600
Speaker 1: going to ask you, what does that mean in context

1092
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:29,919
Speaker 1: of her as a trans elder. It's that it's why

1093
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:31,880
Speaker 1: she you know, she's just she's like, I'm going to

1094
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:33,920
Speaker 1: give my life. I'm gonna sacrifice my life for these

1095
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:36,439
Speaker 1: hobbits and fight the ball rog and it's okay because

1096
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:39,360
Speaker 1: I'll never pass. Yeah, because she's the moans not worth it.

1097
01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:51,240
Speaker 1: We'll be back next week with the discussion on all

1098
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 1: things theme parks with Matt Rogers. Very excited to talk

1099
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 1: about Disney Universal six Flags and I'll be the virgin

1100
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:03,280
Speaker 1: is I've only really been to two theme parks, so yeah,

1101
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 1: so it's going to be quite a roller coaster if

1102
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: you will. If you will, you can follow our Instagram

1103
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 1: at like a Virgin for updates on future episodes, and

1104
01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 1: you know, tag us in what you think we should

1105
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:18,200
Speaker 1: talk about next, or you can side into our d

1106
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:20,760
Speaker 1: m s because we do check them. You can also tweet.

1107
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:24,760
Speaker 1: You can leave a suggestion as a review on Apple podcasts.

1108
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 1: You know a book, a show, a movie, a phenomenon

1109
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 1: we want to hear from you. And of course the

1110
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:32,480
Speaker 1: hotline is still open. You can call to confess at

1111
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:35,400
Speaker 1: three to three pennants. That's three two three seven three

1112
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 1: six two six two three. I'm your co host, Fran Toronto.

1113
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:40,560
Speaker 1: You can find me at Friends Squish go wherever you

1114
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:43,600
Speaker 1: want on social and I'm Rose Damn You. You can

1115
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 1: find me at Rose Damn You wherever you can subscribe

1116
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 1: to Like a Virgin anywhere you listen, leave us a

1117
01:07:49,320 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 1: rating on Spotify or a review on Apple Podcasts. Like

1118
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:54,600
Speaker 1: a Virgin is an I Heart Radio production. Our producer

1119
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:58,480
Speaker 1: is the Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller,

1120
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:03,360
Speaker 1: jess Cranchitch, and Nikkia to or until next week, Sionada Virgins.

1121
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 1: I passed the test. I will diminish and go into

1122
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:17,760
Speaker 1: the west and remain. Let it be goad, and then

1123
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 1: they'd have to be slow quiet ta Marines. And she

1124
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:23,200
Speaker 1: would kind of chant, and she chance a little more