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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A tiny girl body found

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Speaker 1: in sand and rocks. She was dead, but also taken

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Speaker 1: from her her name. Years go by, this tiny girl

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Speaker 1: never identified. She became known as little Miss Nobody, I

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Speaker 1: Meanancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven.

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Speaker 1: How does the story unfold? Listen to our friends at

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Speaker 1: the County Sheriff's office in Yavapaie County. Somebody who was

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Speaker 1: out looking for rocks. It was a gentleman out of

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas, was out looking for rocks around Highway ninety

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Speaker 1: three the Congress area Alama Lake Road and came across

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Speaker 1: her partially buried body. Called in our deputies and detectives

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Speaker 1: went out. They recovered her. They tried to identify her

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Speaker 1: the courses in nineteen sixty. Medical science has advanced quite

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Speaker 1: a bit since then, but originally she was thought to

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Speaker 1: be a seven year old girl, and because of the

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Speaker 1: state of decomposition, that was the best estimate that they

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Speaker 1: could give. I just take that in for a moment.

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Speaker 1: A little girl's body found by some guy looking for

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Speaker 1: rocks out in the middle of nowhere. This child left

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Speaker 1: in the elements under the sun, the wind, the rane

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Speaker 1: embedded in sand and rocks. How did this happen? Who

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Speaker 1: is little Miss Nobody again? I'm Nancy Grace. This is

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us, with me an

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Speaker 1: all star panel to analyze what we know. First of all,

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Speaker 1: doctor Kristen Middleman, CHIEFS Chief Development Officer at author m INK,

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Speaker 1: DNA sALS dot Com, Dale Carson, high profile lawyer joining

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Speaker 1: me out of Jacksonville, former fed with the FBI and

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Speaker 1: author of Arrest Proof Yourself on Amazon or Renowned psychologist

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Speaker 1: doctor Jory Crassen joining US faculty Saint Leo University, consultant

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Speaker 1: with the Blue Wall Institute and author of Operation s

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Speaker 1: O S. Doctor Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologist, medical examiner Sheriff's

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Speaker 1: Department with Lexington County and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide.

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Speaker 1: Mars Nick's longtime friend and colleague, Detective Cobb County Cold

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Speaker 1: Case Unit. But first to Brianna Whitney, Emmy Award winning

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Speaker 1: reporter CBS five and three TV Arizona's family. Brianna, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for being with us. First of all,

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Speaker 1: I want to understand the area where little Miss Nobody

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Speaker 1: was found. Could you describe that for us? Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: she was found in Congress, Arizona, which is a town

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Speaker 1: not many people have even heard of in Arizona, and

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Speaker 1: that's because it's so rural and it's so small in population.

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Speaker 1: I don't think they have more than two thousand people

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Speaker 1: that live there even to this day. It's one of

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Speaker 1: those towns where if you're maybe driving to Prescott or

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Speaker 1: Flagstaff or Sedona, you might drive through it and not

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Speaker 1: even know you drove through it. So it's interesting that

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Speaker 1: that man was out there looking for rock because had

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Speaker 1: somebody not been out there for a specific reason, I

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Speaker 1: don't think that her remains may have been found. There's

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Speaker 1: just nothing out there. It's really rural Arizona. The most

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Speaker 1: you can get. I was fine to imagine what you're

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Speaker 1: talking about with me. Brianna Whitney Award winning reporter, Brianna,

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Speaker 1: What does it look like? I mean, is it desert? Land?

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Speaker 1: Are there? Is there cactus? Are there trees? Forests? Water, river? What?

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Speaker 1: What does it look like? So Arizona's terrain is interesting

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Speaker 1: because in Phoenix and down in the valley you have

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Speaker 1: the desert. What you picture is Arizona the cac die,

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Speaker 1: the rocks, things like that. But as you go north

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Speaker 1: and northwest where this is, it doesn't look the same.

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Speaker 1: It completely changes. So we're talking rural. But it's not

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Speaker 1: that desert that you picture. There's some trees, even some

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Speaker 1: red woods, some pines up there, and imagine just flat

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Speaker 1: land and one highway in and out that most people

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Speaker 1: aren't stopping at. They're just going through. In that area.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of truck stops, small gas stations, but

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Speaker 1: that's about it. Of course, I'm taking it everything you're saying.

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Speaker 1: And my ears really perked up when you said near

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Speaker 1: a highway. So it's kind of as you're saying, the

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Speaker 1: middle of nowhere. Let me go to Dale Carson former

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Speaker 1: fair with the FBI, now lawyer in Jacksonville, Dale. This

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Speaker 1: is the perfect example, and I've used it before the

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Speaker 1: case of Dylan and Shasta Grone, who if you take

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Speaker 1: an aerial view of where they lived in cor De Laye, Idaho,

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Speaker 1: you look down, there's nothing but green, the tops of trees.

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Speaker 1: That's it. But there's an interstate going through cor Delaye

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Speaker 1: and the person that kidnapped Dylan and Shasta, a brother

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Speaker 1: and a sister, was driving the interstate looked over and

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Speaker 1: saw Shasta in the distance on an above ground pool,

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Speaker 1: pulled off, stalked the family, waited for the night, killed

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Speaker 1: the whole family, and took the children. And you can

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Speaker 1: imagine the rest. She was only rescued after many many

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Speaker 1: nights of us covering it wins. A woman at like

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Speaker 1: a seven to eleven gas station saw her and recognized

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Speaker 1: her from TV coverage. That's how she was saved. Her

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Speaker 1: brother had been molested and murdered. So when we say,

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Speaker 1: when you're hearing Brianna Whitney, who, by the way, his

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Speaker 1: host of True Crime Arizona's podcast, when you hear her

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Speaker 1: describing what I envisioned like a wind swept desert area

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Speaker 1: with some redwood trees cacti, that interstate changes who may

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Speaker 1: have killed this child. Of course, at the beginning, they

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Speaker 1: don't even know if she was killed or wandered away.

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Speaker 1: But in an area that remote Delle Carson, we would

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Speaker 1: know if a child had wandered away. Well, that's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: The family would know that the child wandered away. And

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Speaker 1: for a young child to be found in a washed

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Speaker 1: out area where somebody would go to look for rocks

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Speaker 1: and things like that is obviously extremely unusual. And the

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Speaker 1: interstate brings in interstate and those areas allow people to

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Speaker 1: drive by, see that gully and figure that's the best

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Speaker 1: place to place a body. Deal Carson, it's Highway ninety three.

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Speaker 1: That is a long stretch of road. So this child

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Speaker 1: could come from anywhere and her body just be dumped there.

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Speaker 1: I agree, there's no indication she had just wandered off,

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Speaker 1: and at that young age, she's certainly not a runaway. Guys,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend Linda Williams, Phoenix. It

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Speaker 1: appears someone in Arizona got away with murder little girl

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Speaker 1: between three and five years old, found partially buried in

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Speaker 1: the desert. Who was she? And who put her body

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Speaker 1: in the sandwashed creek bed in Congress, Arizona with no answers.

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Speaker 1: Over the years, some nicknamed the victim little miss Nobody.

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Speaker 1: And we're seeing now the age is changing. To doctor

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Speaker 1: Michelle Dupree, forensic Pathologists, medical examiner, we first heard the

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Speaker 1: child is seven. Now we're hearing she's as young as

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Speaker 1: three to five years old. How do you come up

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Speaker 1: with the age change? As we look at the body itself,

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Speaker 1: and we looked particularly at the skull. We look at

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Speaker 1: the size and the length of the bones, and doing

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Speaker 1: measurements like that, we can narrow the age down a

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Speaker 1: lot better based on the length of the bones, based

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Speaker 1: on the length of the bones, based on point of

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Speaker 1: the epipho seals, which is a part of the bone

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Speaker 1: that is solidified or not. What about the teeth. We

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Speaker 1: can look at the teeth as well, absolutely if there's

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Speaker 1: our teeth available. And when you say you can look

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Speaker 1: at the teeth, if you're looking at the mouth of

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Speaker 1: a child, it's three versus the mouth of a child

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Speaker 1: that's seven. What would you expect to find. We would

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Speaker 1: expect to find older teeth. You would expect to find

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Speaker 1: more permanent teeth being there not as many baby teeth

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Speaker 1: and a younger child which would fall out, So you

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Speaker 1: would expect to find older teeth, if you will time

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Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. We are analyzing it so in

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Speaker 1: such a sterile way. To Mars Nicks, my longtime friend

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Speaker 1: and colleague, Cold Case Unit cob County Detective Mars, you

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Speaker 1: and I have been working on the cold case of

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Speaker 1: a little earl Debbie Randall for a really long time. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and here we all are analyzing the evidence. How long

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Speaker 1: is the skeleton, how many teeth does she have? Where

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Speaker 1: was she found? Brianna Whitney giving us a description, a

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Speaker 1: verbal picture of what the area looks like. And I'm

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Speaker 1: just imagining this little girl left out in sand and

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Speaker 1: rocks to decompose. But you know what, it's not analytical

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Speaker 1: because this child is somebody's baby. Yes, yes, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious. It's the one they burned. The body then

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Speaker 1: intrigued me. Well, hold on, you're all right, mars Nicks.

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Speaker 1: The body we learned was burned. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: reporter Joe Dana twelve News. The girls remains were found

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Speaker 1: burned and partially buried in a wash in Congress, Arizona,

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Speaker 1: about eighty five miles northwest of Phoenix. She was laid

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Speaker 1: to rest in an unnamed grave. Over the decades, the

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Speaker 1: cold case simply referred to as the case of little

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Speaker 1: Miss Nobody. The primary goal is to find out who

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Speaker 1: she is. That's Ryan Morris Knicks. You've got to know

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Speaker 1: who your victim is to start the investigation, because you know,

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Speaker 1: investigations would typically start in a case like this with

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Speaker 1: people that knew or even related to the little girl victim. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious is what they used. I was involved in

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Speaker 1: another case where they thought they could put lighter fluid.

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Speaker 1: Of course we know that doesn't get hot enough. It

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Speaker 1: just scorts the body. Was her body seriously learned? Was

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Speaker 1: it scorted? That's a really good question and I want

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Speaker 1: to follow up on that question to doctor Kristen Middleman,

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Speaker 1: chief development officer at Offram. Doctor Middleman, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. How badly does the body have to

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Speaker 1: be burned to make it impossible to extract DNA from

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Speaker 1: bones or teeth? So for us, because we're purpose spelt

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Speaker 1: to work with forensic evidence, that's all we do, or

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Speaker 1: able to work with evidence that I mean, cremation would

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Speaker 1: be what you would have to do in order to

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Speaker 1: assure that we would not be able to get DNA

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Speaker 1: off of the body. But that's a very good point,

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Speaker 1: because most techniques out there and most slots out there,

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Speaker 1: could never get DNA from a body that has been

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Speaker 1: burned at all, let alone badly burned as in this case.

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Speaker 1: Why do you say, doctor Middleman, that the body would

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Speaker 1: have to be essentially cremated in other words, burned incinerated

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Speaker 1: to preclude DNA because we have tailored our techniques in

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Speaker 1: order to work with evidence that's otherwise thought to be inaccessible,

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Speaker 1: evidence that otherwise could not be processed and answers could

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Speaker 1: never be gotten from and therefore identities would never be ascertained.

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Speaker 1: So we have build methods that allow us to work

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Speaker 1: with such low amounts of DNA or DNA that is

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Speaker 1: super contaminated DNA that is mostly non human because as

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Speaker 1: you know, if you're out in the elements, as little

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Speaker 1: Miss Nobody's body was, you have a lot of contamination

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Speaker 1: that is non human contamination. We have worked through every

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Speaker 1: one of these obstacles that have previously prevented people from

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Speaker 1: being able to sequence the DNA and create a profile

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Speaker 1: that would give you back that person's identity. And the

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Speaker 1: science is here. It's robust. You can look on DNA

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Speaker 1: solves and look at our solve cases. And doctor Middleman,

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Speaker 1: when you say cremation, the temperature for cremation goes as

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Speaker 1: high as about eighteen hundred degrees fahrenheit. I mean that's

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Speaker 1: more than any you know, consumer oven or a fire pick.

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Speaker 1: I mean it brings to mind, doctor Middleman. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you're familiar with the case of Teresa Hallback,

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Speaker 1: or you may be familiar with the sensational documentary Making

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Speaker 1: a Murderer about Stephen Avery, her killer, suggesting that he

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Speaker 1: was framed Stephen Avery the night that she's twenty six,

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Speaker 1: twenty seven year old Teresa Halback, she was a photographer

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Speaker 1: for like a penny pincher, oh it's auto trader, and

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Speaker 1: she went to his place to take pictures of a

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Speaker 1: vehicle and disappeared. Not only was her car found on

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Speaker 1: his property hidden, but that night Avery stirred a fire

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Speaker 1: pit all night long. His family, relatives, blood relatives, neighbors

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Speaker 1: describe him stirring a fire pit all night. When police

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Speaker 1: finally went to the location, they found not only the

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Speaker 1: studs off the back of her Daisy Fiuentus blue jeans,

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Speaker 1: they also found teeth. Teeth that was all that was

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Speaker 1: left to raise the haul back. Can you get DNA

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Speaker 1: from teeth? Yes? So I think that that's the case

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Speaker 1: that Awthroom could work. And we have worked and I

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Speaker 1: can't announce prior to law enforcement announcing, but I can't

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Speaker 1: tell you that we have worked cases from charred remains,

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Speaker 1: multiple cases that will be announced shortly. Charred Remains what

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Speaker 1: if somebody's nothing but ashes, why can't you get And

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Speaker 1: I know this seems like a rudimentary question, but why

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Speaker 1: can't you get DNA from ashes? Because they would travel

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Speaker 1: through the ashes and it would be very hard to

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Speaker 1: pinpoint where the location of that DNA would be there.

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Speaker 1: It would be very hard to put it together. You

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Speaker 1: don't want to. The ashes would have deluted that DNA

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Speaker 1: out in a way that we wouldn't be able to

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Speaker 1: find it and get it. When you have a tooth

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Speaker 1: or you have a charred remain, even if it's you know,

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Speaker 1: super super degraded, and that's something I should have said.

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Speaker 1: We are in our methods are insensitive to degradation. We

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Speaker 1: have been able to identify remains from eighteen eighty one.

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Speaker 1: We've been able to identify remains that are severely degraded

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Speaker 1: because they were underwater for decades and decades and like

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Speaker 1: I said, charred remains and has never been an issue.

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Speaker 1: So what you need is something that you can actually

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Speaker 1: pinpoint to collect the DNA from ashes, I think would

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Speaker 1: be hard to Doctor Jory cross and joining us a

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Speaker 1: renowned psychologist faculty at Saint Leo University and consultant and author.

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Speaker 1: I could go on, doctor Jory, they thought, just think

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Speaker 1: of it and it's not pleasant. And I've had to

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Speaker 1: force Gurars to think of unpleasant thoughts before much in

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Speaker 1: this manner. But imagine trying to burn a three year

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Speaker 1: old girl's body. Well, I kind of mindset could do that,

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Speaker 1: to put a flame to a child's ski in. It's

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Speaker 1: just very hard for me to comprehend that. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: you know the legal term, I guess premeditation. I mean,

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Speaker 1: just look at the for lack of better the organization,

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Speaker 1: and he has he's got to have a fuel source,

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Speaker 1: you know, so he's got a plan. Like the location.

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Speaker 1: This location is you know, very difficult to get to.

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Speaker 1: Uh so, you know, trying to like say profile or

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Speaker 1: understand his behavior, there was somewhat of a plan in

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Speaker 1: this location. It may have just been the ruralness of

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Speaker 1: it and where he could dispose of the body. But

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Speaker 1: you know what doctor Jorian tells me, he's been there before.

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Speaker 1: Because if somebody asked me, where are you going to

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Speaker 1: dispose of a body, I certainly would not think a

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Speaker 1: sand creek wash Congress Arizona. I wouldn't even note to

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Speaker 1: say that. So he had to be familiar with it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and probably has disposed of bodies like this before. Alls. Oh,

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Speaker 1: you know what, you're right. I guarantee you the thing

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Speaker 1: is first time at the rodeo Gary Tee. You don't

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Speaker 1: go from zero to one twenty mph overnight. Have you

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Speaker 1: found that to be true? Morris Nix Morris is Cold

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Speaker 1: Case Unit Detective, Cobb County. I mean, this is not

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Speaker 1: this guy's first time at violent crime. You know, to

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Speaker 1: rape and murder a three year old girl, because you

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Speaker 1: know that had to be HWAITI took her then kill

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Speaker 1: her and and burn her body and leave it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's um, it goes to a certain level of most

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Speaker 1: of us don't understand. It's not something you do one time.

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Speaker 1: And then Debbie's case. That's what we have worked very

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Speaker 1: hard to do, is to connect just with another case,

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Speaker 1: which we haven't done yet. But I agree, this is

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Speaker 1: not a one time thing. No, no, no, no no.

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Speaker 1: If there's another reasons jumping in, is this Dale or

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Speaker 1: it is this Dale? Look, there's another reason you burn

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Speaker 1: a body. You burn a body so it can't easily

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Speaker 1: be a identified And the reason you do that is

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Speaker 1: because there's somebody in the area or the vicinity missing

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Speaker 1: and you don't want that person to be found. And

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Speaker 1: an organized killer as opposed to a disorganized killer. We'll

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Speaker 1: plan things out just as we discussed, and we'll do

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Speaker 1: things like this. They'll burn the body, they'll bury it,

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Speaker 1: all in an effort to cover up what their behavior wash.

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Speaker 1: If you look, there probably maybe other similar behavior patterns

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Speaker 1: with bodies. There may be a lot that. Of course,

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Speaker 1: I haven't been found more missing little girls because it

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Speaker 1: takes a certain type of mind to want to rape

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Speaker 1: a three year old girl. That's not the same mind

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Speaker 1: then wants to rape or attack an adult woman or attainer.

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Speaker 1: So if there are other missing little girls, I would

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Speaker 1: say throughout the region, I would try to connect. Get

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Speaker 1: back to this time stories with Nancy Grace. Back to

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Speaker 1: little Miss Nobody, A tiny girl body found in sand

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Speaker 1: and rocks. Dad, take a listen to our cup one.

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Speaker 1: This is justin Lamb at Fox ten. Little girl between

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Speaker 1: three and five years old, found partially buried in the desert.

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Speaker 1: The case still haunts the Yavapine County Sheriff's office. Who

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Speaker 1: is this little girl in the sketch dubbed a little

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Speaker 1: Miss Nobody? Her partially buried remains found at Sandwash Creek

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Speaker 1: in Congress, Arizona, on July thirty first, nineteen sixty. Investigators

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Speaker 1: believe her remains had been burned one to two weeks

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Speaker 1: before she was discovered. The cause of death undetermined yet suspicious,

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Speaker 1: and it was ruled a homicide. Interesting, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: just trying to envision where she was left, the burning

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Speaker 1: of her body, and I just heard a new fact

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Speaker 1: to Brianna Whitney, joining us CBS five and three and

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Speaker 1: a host of True Crime Arizona podcast. She was actually

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Speaker 1: partially buried as well, Whitney that I jumped out at

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Speaker 1: me before. Yeah, so that's where she was found, partially

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Speaker 1: buried in the ground the dirt, which I think confuses

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Speaker 1: people even more because that obviously takes effort to do.

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Speaker 1: It's not like her body was just dumped and they

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Speaker 1: drove on. That took some time and some deliberate effort

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Speaker 1: to partially bury her. I am assuming that because it

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Speaker 1: is so rural out there and there isn't much that

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Speaker 1: was an attempt to hide the body, to conceal it

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Speaker 1: without people driving by didn't see it. But then that

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Speaker 1: begs the question why even dump it right there? If

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Speaker 1: it would be so noticeable because there's nothing else there.

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Speaker 1: And it took a guy walking around from another jurisdiction

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Speaker 1: looking for a particular type of rock to come upon

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Speaker 1: the body. And you know, the reality is doctor Michelle Dupree,

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Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. A lot of times

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Speaker 1: individuals come across a dead body, they run the other way.

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Speaker 1: They do not want to be associated, they don't report

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Speaker 1: it nothing. But this guy reported it exactly, Nancy, And

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Speaker 1: I mean we're grateful that they do, of course. And

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Speaker 1: you know, most clandestine graves are at the most eighteen

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Speaker 1: inches deep. People don't want to tape the time to

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Speaker 1: bury a body deeply, and so being partially buried or

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Speaker 1: partially covered, it's not really unusual, especially after so many years.

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Speaker 1: And I want, I want to bring in the mind

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Speaker 1: of a killer to this degree this scene was staged.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean? That means really any contact movement, hiding,

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Speaker 1: concealing the body postmortem after death. For instance, everybody knows

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Speaker 1: BTK buy torture killed Dennis Rader. He worked with a

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Speaker 1: pound It was a dogcatcher. He had many many murder victims,

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Speaker 1: and after he murdered them, he would dress them up,

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Speaker 1: pose them, take pictures of them. Same thing with Ted Bundy.

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Speaker 1: Ted Bundy would bathe some of the bodies. He would

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Speaker 1: apply hair and make up to some of the bodies.

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Speaker 1: Some he would decapitate, have sex with their remains, their head,

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Speaker 1: their bathed body. He would go back and visit and

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Speaker 1: visit and visit that the dead bodies, let one left

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Speaker 1: in the woods. He would go back repeatedly until the

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Speaker 1: decomposition was to a point he could no longer go

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Speaker 1: back for sexual gratification. All of that is staging. It

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Speaker 1: can be putting a blanket over the body. I had

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Speaker 1: one case where a mother was killed and the perp

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Speaker 1: put a wicker basket trash can over her head. All

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Speaker 1: of that is staging. And to you, Jill Carson, staging

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Speaker 1: means you're connected to the person. A random killer kills

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Speaker 1: and leaves. This guy burned the body, he tried to

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Speaker 1: bury the body, He disposed of the body and a

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Speaker 1: remote location. That's staging. Well, the body was probably fully buried.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's then a wash, you get one good rain,

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Speaker 1: and of course then it becomes exposed. Even though it

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Speaker 1: was maybe a short time between the stuff and the

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Speaker 1: recovery of the body. We don't know guys. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our cut five. This is Linda Williams at

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Speaker 1: Fox ten. You know this little girl was somebody's daughter,

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Speaker 1: was somebody's sister, or this little rome mattered to somebody.

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Speaker 1: And you know, it's wonderful to see this technology being

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Speaker 1: used in this way to close these and answer these

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Speaker 1: questions from from way back. But once we know her name,

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Speaker 1: what's next? Why CSO donated one thousand dollars to further

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Speaker 1: investigate this case. Then a crowdfunding website featured the little

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Speaker 1: Miss Nobody case, and the four thousand dollars requested to

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Speaker 1: search for further answers was raised in twenty four hours.

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Speaker 1: More answers are coming on this little girl and perhaps justice.

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Speaker 1: Once a little Miss Nobody's case was publicized, this chiles

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Speaker 1: I did ay unknown for so long, everyone began clamoring

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Speaker 1: to identify this little girl and solve the case. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to the Sheriff's office press conference our cutten.

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Speaker 1: Authorities from Alama Gordo reached out to Yabapai County at

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Speaker 1: some point, we believe in August, and in August said hey,

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Speaker 1: we had an abduction. We think that your found little

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Speaker 1: girl might be our kidnapped a little girl. But because

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Speaker 1: of the age difference in the estimation, our estimated age

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Speaker 1: was seven years old, Sharon was four years old, and

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Speaker 1: she was taken she was about to turn five. That

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Speaker 1: was one reason that they thought that this might not

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Speaker 1: be her. The clothing description was different, and ultimately there

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Speaker 1: was a footprint comparison made by the FBI back in

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty that said that the two were not the same.

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Speaker 1: Footprint comparisons are not, obviously how we do things now,

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Speaker 1: but that was probably the best technology they had available

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Speaker 1: to him at the time. So our detectives looked at

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Speaker 1: the possibility of this being Sharon Lee Gayegos, but then

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Speaker 1: ultimately ruled that out and moved on to other suspects

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Speaker 1: and other leagues. Jill Carson, I've had to use the

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Speaker 1: footprint analysis before. Could you explain how it's done? Absolutely?

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Speaker 1: There are a couple of ways. One is to use

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Speaker 1: plaster of Paris and to take the footprint and then

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Speaker 1: find previously existing footprints and compare them. Another one would

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Speaker 1: be the actual physical print, like a fingerprint. Our toes

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Speaker 1: and the bottom of our feats have these lines and

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Speaker 1: these ridges as we have in fingerprints, and those can

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Speaker 1: be compared to if there's sufficient remaining in order to

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Speaker 1: do that. And in this case we learn detectives found

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Speaker 1: out about a little girl who hadn't gone missing, but

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Speaker 1: then ruled that out because of the age problem and

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Speaker 1: the footprint. The age discrepance and the footprint seemingly didn't work.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut to Fox ten. Lieutenant

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Speaker 1: Tom Bolt says the case made no progress until twenty

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Speaker 1: eighteen when authorities exhumed her body to get a DNA sample.

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Speaker 1: When you have remains that are that old, at that time,

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Speaker 1: the best sample we were able to get was an

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Speaker 1: incomplete sample. Now YCSO has partnered with authrom Incorporated for

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Speaker 1: use of their private forensic lab, a better sample and

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Speaker 1: better technology, maybe, key Bolt says, familial DNA could lead

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Speaker 1: investigators to a close relative of little miss Nobody, and

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Speaker 1: tracking that person down could provide answers. Hopefully they'll be

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Speaker 1: able to, you know, if we get them identified through

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Speaker 1: that familial database, so be able to call us and

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Speaker 1: be able to tell us some of the background story

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Speaker 1: on what happened to her and how she ended up

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Speaker 1: out there. Now, the idea of a DNA possibly extracting DNA.

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Speaker 1: Is it possible? Can it be done? Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to this. Now we will finally know her name, thanks

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Speaker 1: in part to DNA technology. Well, there's been incredible advances

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Speaker 1: in DNA technology that allow forensic technicians to extract DNA

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Speaker 1: from bones and teeth that are more likely to be

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Speaker 1: found in very old cases. In this case, the little

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Speaker 1: girl's body was exhoomed in twenty eighteen. Tuesday, you have

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Speaker 1: a Pike County Sheriff's office with an outside DNA lab

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Speaker 1: will announce who this child was. It's amazing to me

428
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: the way the case is unfolding. You're just hearing our

429
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: friend Linda Williams. Now take a listen to Joe Dana twelve.

430
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: Back in January twelve, News spoke to Lieutenant Tom Bolts

431
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: about the case. Bolts teamed up with the DNA lab

432
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: Oathram Incorporated in an attempt to link the girl to

433
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: living relatives. DNA taken from the girl's remains are like

434
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: a fingerprint that can be compared to the DNA in

435
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: existing databases. In Sunday's announcement, the Sheriff's office thanked the

436
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: lab for conducting the analysis. A mystery appears to be

437
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: solved thanks to a modern investigative tool. Whether the girl

438
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: has living relatives who finally have closure about her disappearance,

439
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: we will find out this week when investigators provide more details,

440
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: but from what we know, another family is left devastated.

441
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: Remember the little girl that went missing, Sharon Lee Gallegos

442
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: between three and six years old out to Brianna Whitney

443
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: joining US CBS five and three tell me about Sharon's disappearance.

444
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: So authorities had to basically work backwards with Sharon because

445
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,239
Speaker 1: all of the information from nineteen sixty at the By

446
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: County Sheriff's office and anywhere else was not digitized, so

447
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: they had to basically go back and rebuild this case

448
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: to find out about her disappearance. We ended up learning

449
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: that Sharon Lee Gegos was four years old. She lived

450
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: in Alama Gordo, New Mexico with her family, and she

451
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: had been outside playing with her cousins and another young

452
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: child in July of nineteen sixty and that's when authorities

453
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: tell us Akacar pulled up and abducted Sharon and drove

454
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: away with her and at the time and Alama Gordo.

455
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: Her disappearance was all over the newspapers and news outlets

456
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: in New Mexico at the time, and it did make

457
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: its way to Arizona, but that's when they decided or

458
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: discovered that the footprint didn't match and they ruled Sharon out.

459
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: Brianna Whitney, how far is it between the point where

460
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: Sharon was abducted and little miss Nobody was found? Hours?

461
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: I mean, you're talking Ala mc gordo, that's in New

462
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: Mexico and her body was found in northwest Arizona. And

463
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: you know, in the West, these states are pretty big,

464
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: so we're talking hours and hours between where she was

465
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: abducted to where that body was found. You know, it

466
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: brings to mind a case that we covered a while back.

467
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: It was the case of Samantha Running, a little girl

468
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: about three years old who was playing in the front

469
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: yard of her grandma. The grandmother was inside in the

470
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: kitchen looking out the window and sees a part come

471
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: up and take Samantha and take off with her in

472
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: a car. I've spoken with Samantha's mother or Aaron Running

473
00:32:55,120 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: many many times, and just to think how close grandmother

474
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: was to Samantha and the perp got away with her.

475
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: Samantha was killed. But it reminds me of these circumstances.

476
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: And at the time, many people believe that Sharon's family

477
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: was at fault for letting her play in the yard,

478
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: but she was playing with other children, family was at home.

479
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: And especially in nineteen sixty, who would have imagined, mars

480
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: Nicks that someone would take little Sharon and kidnap her

481
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: and she would never be seen alive again. You know,

482
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: time were so different than asa we know, and people

483
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: were much more trusting, they were much more secure. Who

484
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: would have thought somebody would take Debbie fifty feet away

485
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: from where she lived, especially when she came out of

486
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: the laundry map where there were several girls in there.

487
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: But whoever did raise enough to do it? Which is

488
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: always brought me to the question did she know her abductor?

489
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: And I think she did, and I think that's why

490
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: she went to the vehicle. But people that do these

491
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: clowns are brazen, They are very brave. And yeah, it's

492
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: a great question, and I really don't know how to

493
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: answer you. And you know what, Morris, next, everything you

494
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: just said applies to the case of the missing taught

495
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: Sharon Lee Gallegos as well. But now back to little

496
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: Miss Nobody. Can you imagine your child goes missing and

497
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 1: you find out about a body being found states miles away,

498
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: and then you find out it's not her, and for

499
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,879
Speaker 1: these remains to be called to be dubbed little miss

500
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: Nobody Nobody? She was nobody for so long detectives did

501
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 1: it all. Take a listen to our at eleven. We

502
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: had to piece a lot of what happened together from

503
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: newspaper reports at the time. The FBI worked on this case.

504
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: Ala mc gordo PD worked on this case. You have

505
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 1: By County Sheriff's office worked on this case, but unfortunately

506
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: those reports are not around anymore. So a lot of

507
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: it that we've been able to formulate, you know, what

508
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: happened to her is from old newspaper articles that we

509
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: found on the internet. We still have work to do

510
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: in this case. We would still like to identify the

511
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: people who took her. Finally, between DNA technology specifically at

512
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: author Am Inc. And hard work by detectives, there's an answer.

513
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,240
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut eight. The Sheriff's pressor.

514
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: We had contact with Nick mc National Center from misseexploited

515
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 1: children and in twenty fifteen they offered to fund the

516
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: exhimation of little Miss Nobody and fund the DNA extraction

517
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: and testing that was done in November of twenty fifteen. Unfortunately,

518
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: DNA science at that time, as advanced as it was,

519
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: wasn't advanced enough to give us an identity. About three

520
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: weeks ago we got a call from David Middleton with

521
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: oath from Labs. They had reached out to us about

522
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: four or five months before that and said that they

523
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: would like to try and get her identified and try

524
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: and help us with the case. They offered to do

525
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 1: so with crowdfunding. These things are very expensive. We ended

526
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: up partnering with them and doing that. We got that

527
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: phone call about three weeks ago, maybe four weeks ago

528
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: now saying that they were one certain that that little

529
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 1: Miss Nobody was sharing Lee Gayegos. It's amazing to me

530
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: after all that the family Galgos went through to be

531
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: told this wasn't her. Just ten days a body was

532
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: found after Sharon goes missing from the yard all this time,

533
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: it was in fact her. It was Sharon. Little miss

534
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:22,720
Speaker 1: Nobody is Sharon Gallegos straight out to doctor Kristen Middleman,

535
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: Chief development Officer, author from inc. DNA solves dot com.

536
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: How did you do it? So that's the key, Nancy

537
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: DNA technology is alike all these other technologies. Two people

538
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: can't do the same job. And awesome we built off

539
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: from in twenty eighteen so that we could adapt the

540
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 1: most powerful technology that exists as far as sequencing on

541
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: Earth too forensics, and no one else has ever adopted

542
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: that technology for forensics in the past, and it allows

543
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: us to identify people that otherwise are missed using these

544
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: other DNA technologies. And that's exactly what happened in this case.

545
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,439
Speaker 1: I think part of the story that hasn't been told

546
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 1: yet and is that it actually went to an advanced

547
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: DNA lab and this process. In fact, there was no

548
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: funding because the funding was used to test that this

549
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: other lab in twenty nineteen and the result was incorrect

550
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: and Sharon Dilegas was not identified. And that is the issue.

551
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: Using the wrong DNA technology actually leaves victims unidentified, and

552
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: it leaves perpetrators out there to commit more crimes, and

553
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: that to me is a crime. Well, what is the

554
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 1: wrong DNA technology? You know a lot of people don't

555
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: know right from wrong when it comes to DNA secreencing.

556
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: I really feel that when you're working with forensic evidence,

557
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: especially because every time you run a reaction, you consume

558
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: that evidence and potentially consume someone's last chance of being

559
00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: identified or being able to get justice. Think that when

560
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 1: it comes to forensic evidence, you have to work with

561
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 1: a lab that can do this entire process from beginning

562
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 1: to end, that are experts in this field and that

563
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 1: have adopted their technology for forensics. You cannot work with

564
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: a medical lab. You cannot work with a consumer lab.

565
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: Their processes are built for a different purpose. Medical tests

566
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: are built for fresh DNA. We swab, we have a

567
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: renewable source, or we give a blood. It's very different.

568
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: Forensic DNA and medical DNA can't be more opposite. We

569
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,760
Speaker 1: have to have processes that are built for trace amounts

570
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 1: of DNA DNA that's super contaminated, it's super degraded DNA

571
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: that has a slew of issues that you would never

572
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: see in a medical lab. All of us here at

573
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: author and most of us I mean I'm at David

574
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 1: the CEO and a DNA parallelab twenty two years ago.

575
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: Most of us here in AUTHORROM are medical experts. We

576
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: actually help built a lot of this technology. We were

577
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: part of the first human GINO project thousand human GINO projects.

578
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: We actually worked with this on creating the standards that

579
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: is used by the SBA today in order to deploy

580
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: the technology in medicine. We understand it, but that technology

581
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,720
Speaker 1: was not suffice for forensic evidence. That's why we built Awesome.

582
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,919
Speaker 1: We had to tailor it so that we could work

583
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: with a type of inputs that come in from forensic investigation.

584
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,839
Speaker 1: And thank Heaven you did take a listen to our

585
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: cut seven Stephanie Bennett Fox ten. It was a day

586
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: of emotion and closure as law enforcement, DNA experts, and

587
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 1: family finally shared the news with the public. I always

588
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: hope I would find her by doing DNA testing, do

589
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: you know, find that she was still alive, But at

590
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: least we know now Moncy Holdrea is her niece. She

591
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: was a very fiery little girl from what I understand,

592
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: and I just love to play and I wish that

593
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: my mother was still alive to share in the news.

594
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: And at the same time, I know, you know, I

595
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: truly believe that she has already been reunited with Sharon.

596
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 1: Now Drea, who you just heard from. It tells me

597
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: they're hoping to do something to honor this little girl's

598
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: life with the rest of the family. For now, like

599
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: you said, no one has been charged with this murder,

600
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: and they wanted to say a special thank you to

601
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: the law enforcement and the community. They say this wouldn't

602
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,280
Speaker 1: have been possible with the community raising money to solve

603
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: this case in the first place. It is consolation that

604
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: this little girl has been joined with her family in heaven,

605
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:38,879
Speaker 1: but now the search for the killer. Nancy Grace crime

606
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: story signing up Goodbye, f