WEBVTT - Walker Cup Wrap-Up & Bethpage Black Thoughts

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<v Speaker 1>I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When

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<v Speaker 1>I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

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<v Speaker 1>And when I find my ball in a fried.

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<v Speaker 2>Egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg, Frida egg, frid

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<v Speaker 2>egg egg, Frida egg brid egg Lie, I'm about ready

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<v Speaker 2>to run off of the hump. Welcome back to the

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<v Speaker 2>Friday Golf Podcast. I am your host, Andy Johnson, and

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<v Speaker 2>I am fresh off a wonderful week at weekend at

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<v Speaker 2>Cyprus Point. Doesn't get much better than the Walker Cup there.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh this year, it was just really cool to see,

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<v Speaker 2>uh the event happen. I guess has uh you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I think he'll probably be the only, uh'd be the

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<v Speaker 2>only live golf.

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<v Speaker 1>Event that I attend at Cyper's Point in my life.

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<v Speaker 2>So it was really cool to see uh it there

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<v Speaker 2>meet a ton of people. You know, it's just a

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<v Speaker 2>lot different than your normal golf event in the sense

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<v Speaker 2>of how the crowd interaction with with you know, media obviously,

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<v Speaker 2>but the players and you know, no ropes.

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<v Speaker 1>It was super fun. It was a great week.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll get into that more on this podcast. I'm bringing

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<v Speaker 2>in Garrett Morrison, who is the head of our golf

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<v Speaker 2>architecture content here at at Friday Golf, and we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to talk about the Walker Cup is Cyperus Point as

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<v Speaker 2>well as the Ryder Coup venue Beth Page at the

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<v Speaker 2>back end of this. So super exciting to chat about

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<v Speaker 2>this with Garrett, who I'm sure has some thoughts from

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<v Speaker 2>watching on TV this weekend. But it was a wonderful

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<v Speaker 2>time out there and very very thankful that the the

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<v Speaker 2>USGA and Csiper Point had this event, the Walker Cup.

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<v Speaker 2>I think, you know, it's funny, it's like a weird

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<v Speaker 2>spot and we'll get more into this, but a weird

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<v Speaker 2>spot in the sense it's like not one of their

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<v Speaker 2>marquee events in terms of like how they've commercialized the

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<v Speaker 2>Men's and Women's US Open, but in terms of quality

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<v Speaker 2>of venue and players an event in format, it's about

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<v Speaker 2>as good as it gets in all of golf. So

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<v Speaker 2>I'm curious. I'm you know, I'm just very interested to

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<v Speaker 2>see where the Walker Cup goes the next two decades.

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<v Speaker 2>But I'll tell you what, for more than three decades,

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<v Speaker 2>for more than thirty years, this is our partner, Mercedes Benz.

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<v Speaker 2>in their partnership here this year. Let's get to Garrett

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<v Speaker 2>Morrison now and let's talk Cyper's Point and Bethpage. Garrett,

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<v Speaker 2>welcome out. How are you.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm doing great? How are you doing? Andy?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm doing all right.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm I'm kind of like coming down from a very

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<v Speaker 2>packed weekend. It was I think you would you would

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<v Speaker 2>have loved it. I don't want to rub it in

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<v Speaker 2>here that you weren't there.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, it was just like how did that happen?

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<v Speaker 2>The audience and the crowds there, It was just like

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<v Speaker 2>a felt like almost like a festival of people that

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<v Speaker 2>love golf.

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<v Speaker 1>So in a way for sure, Yeah, in a.

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<v Speaker 2>Way, I'm like just like extremely like burnt out, and

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like toast from conversating with with so many

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<v Speaker 2>people about golf from like sun up to sundown, uh

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<v Speaker 2>and late end of the night, all weekend long, but

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<v Speaker 2>also on a high of really, I you know, in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of cool golf events that I will attend in

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<v Speaker 2>my life, that is that is up there, and obviously

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<v Speaker 2>this year's Masters is up there, but that event just

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<v Speaker 2>from the hole where it was being played, they got

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely stunning weather and in Cypress Point. Just spending three

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<v Speaker 2>three straight days on Cypress Point was just such a

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<v Speaker 2>pleasure and treat How did you? How were you? How

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<v Speaker 2>did you feel about it? With the with television and

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<v Speaker 2>watching from home?

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<v Speaker 3>I thought it went well. I thought the course showed

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<v Speaker 3>well on TV. I wasn't exactly sure whether it would

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<v Speaker 3>really come through on TV as well as it did,

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<v Speaker 3>but they did a pretty good job of portraying what

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<v Speaker 3>the course looks like. And I think also that if

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<v Speaker 3>you compare the way the course popped on TV for

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<v Speaker 3>this Walker Cup to how it looked at the old

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<v Speaker 3>Crosby's and at the nineteen eighty one Walker Cup, I

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<v Speaker 3>think you gain an appreciation for how well the work

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<v Speaker 3>that Corn Crenshaw have done in the past several years

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<v Speaker 3>at Cyprus Point has gone. The course looks a lot

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<v Speaker 3>better now. The work that they've done in the dunes,

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<v Speaker 3>kind of stripping away some of that vegetation and exposing

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<v Speaker 3>the white sand, has just been huge for the esthetics

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<v Speaker 3>of the golf course. And so I think that's one

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<v Speaker 3>thing that came through really clearly on TV. The bunker

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<v Speaker 3>work looks great, the dunes look great, The course pops

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<v Speaker 3>on TV, and so I was really glad to see that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, especially with the weather that they got. I will say,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, a lot of people that I talked to

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<v Speaker 2>that hadn't been out there in a while mentioned how

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<v Speaker 2>good the dunes look compared to the last time they

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<v Speaker 2>were out there, and massive difference an area that they've

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<v Speaker 2>really focused on in recent years.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's it's a big difference from what I saw

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<v Speaker 3>when I lived in the area. I lived basically right

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<v Speaker 3>right there for a while and used to walk by

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<v Speaker 3>the golf course look at the golf course all the time,

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<v Speaker 3>and the way the dunes look now is way different

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<v Speaker 3>from how they looked ten years ago. So big kudos

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<v Speaker 3>to the club, Big kudos to the ground staff that

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<v Speaker 3>has kind of taken care of that. I think they've

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<v Speaker 3>they've been working with Earth Sculpture as the contractor. They've

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<v Speaker 3>done excellent, excellent work there kind of maintaining that native environment.

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<v Speaker 3>It just looks great.

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<v Speaker 2>On Saturday night, you know, I was out there all

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<v Speaker 2>day Saturday. What I did was follow two matches and

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<v Speaker 2>like one in the morning, one through eighteen, one in

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<v Speaker 2>the afternoon one through eighteen, and you know, then kind

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<v Speaker 2>of sat around and hung out with some people all

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<v Speaker 2>night on Saturday, and then all of a sudden the

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<v Speaker 2>replay came on. And what was amazing to me is

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<v Speaker 2>like the group there was a fairly large group of

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<v Speaker 2>us just then became entranced by the replay. There's all

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<v Speaker 2>people that had been there that day, and then watching

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<v Speaker 2>it on TV was truly stunning. I thought the thing

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<v Speaker 2>that worked really well. And I think I can just

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<v Speaker 2>imagine just some passer by on Golf Channel that maybe

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<v Speaker 2>maybe didn't know this event was happening, maybe didn't know

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<v Speaker 2>a ton about Cyprus Point the drone shots of the

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<v Speaker 2>Peninsula of six seventeen were unbelievable, and I was, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I was.

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<v Speaker 3>Out there by Golf Channel. I mean they did their

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<v Speaker 3>thing there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they did.

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<v Speaker 2>It was they had They had one of the new

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<v Speaker 2>new drones too. You know obviously somebody I fly drone occasionally,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know it was I was. I was looking

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<v Speaker 2>at it. I had, I was close enough to see it.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like I was a brand new drone and

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<v Speaker 2>it showed like the the it was so crisp, and

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<v Speaker 2>I just like I found myself when I was out there,

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<v Speaker 2>but more so almost on TV with those drone shots.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, this is a golf course. I've looked at

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<v Speaker 2>a million times in my life. When I'm watching this

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<v Speaker 2>television product, even you know myself, I'm just I just

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't believe.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't believe that.

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<v Speaker 2>The course exists like that, that the golf course is

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<v Speaker 2>on that land, and how it's just like this coastline

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<v Speaker 2>just seemingly when you see it from up high, appears

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<v Speaker 2>just perfect for golf.

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<v Speaker 3>That's the thing about Cypress Point is that it does

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<v Speaker 3>seem to occupy this realm of fantasy, almost like if

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<v Speaker 3>you were to invent a piece of land for a

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<v Speaker 3>spectacular golf course. This would almost be what you'd invent.

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<v Speaker 3>You'd have some forest holes, you'd have some dunes holes,

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<v Speaker 3>and you'd have spectacular cliffs, and you'd say, it's unrealistic

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<v Speaker 3>that you could find a piece of land that has

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<v Speaker 3>all those features, and you know, puts the designer in

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<v Speaker 3>a situation where he or she can use all of

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<v Speaker 3>those features. But that's exactly what happened with Cypress Point

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<v Speaker 3>and Alistair Mackenzie, and it's part of what makes it

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<v Speaker 3>such a remarkable golf course. Yeah. I mean, the drone

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<v Speaker 3>shots were awesome in and of them. They were beautiful

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<v Speaker 3>to look at, but there was also a really good

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<v Speaker 3>directing and production choice that Golf Channel made, which was

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<v Speaker 3>when the matches got to the fourteenth green and were

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<v Speaker 3>transitioning away from the fourteenth green, Golf Channel made a

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<v Speaker 3>choice to basically stop the flow of their coverage and

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<v Speaker 3>have that drone follow the group from the fourteenth green

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<v Speaker 3>to the fifteenth tee. The announcers went silent and just

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<v Speaker 3>allowed the imagery to do the work. And it was

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<v Speaker 3>one of the few moments, aside from maybe when somebody

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<v Speaker 3>wins the Masters, like Tiger Rory wins the Masters, and

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<v Speaker 3>they have that wonderful walk that everybody loves from the

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<v Speaker 3>eighteenth green to the scoring area. One of the few

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<v Speaker 3>moments in a golf telecast that I can remember when

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<v Speaker 3>everything was silent for a minute and you were just

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<v Speaker 3>being asked to look at the golf course and to

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<v Speaker 3>observe how incredible that walk from the fourteenth green to

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<v Speaker 3>the fifteenth tea is. And obviously there is something special

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<v Speaker 3>about that green to tea transition, something unique about it

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<v Speaker 3>that can't be replicated by telecasts of other tournaments. But

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<v Speaker 3>it made me think about how this could be a

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<v Speaker 3>way that a tournament broadcast could show a golf course

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<v Speaker 3>to an audience. Just take a break every once in

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<v Speaker 3>a while and have a drone kind of follow the

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<v Speaker 3>route of the golf course and show some of the features,

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<v Speaker 3>because it really gives you a vivid sense of what

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<v Speaker 3>the course is like. And it's something that they can

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<v Speaker 3>do now because they can incorporate these these drones into

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<v Speaker 3>their array of cameras. So I just wish that we

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<v Speaker 3>saw this more, We had more of these kind of

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<v Speaker 3>moments of reflection when we aren't seeing golf shots, we

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<v Speaker 3>aren't going from putt to putt to put to putt,

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<v Speaker 3>we just stop for a moment and familiarize ourselves with

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<v Speaker 3>with some golf hols. I think that would be something

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<v Speaker 3>really cool that I don't think they're gonna do because

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<v Speaker 3>I mean Cyper's point is is a very particular course

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<v Speaker 3>and maybe they won't be inspired to do this at

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<v Speaker 3>other courses. I just liked it and I thought, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I wish I saw more of this.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, obviously this would work some places, maybe not others.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think, you know, TPC Craig Ranch is going

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<v Speaker 2>to be able to do that kind of move.

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<v Speaker 3>Who knows after the after the renovation by by House.

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<v Speaker 1>Sutton, you know, Lanny Lanny, Lanny.

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<v Speaker 3>Watkins us right, it's not how Sutton. Sorry, don't mean

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<v Speaker 3>to defame hol Sutton. Yeah, yeah, yeah, after after the

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<v Speaker 3>Lanny renovation, might be might be worthy of it.

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<v Speaker 2>But I do think there are places that this could

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<v Speaker 2>work really well, at say the Masters, where it could

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<v Speaker 2>be neat, especially depending on the circumstance.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean Nick has done something like you know, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>But this could work really well.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think it where it would work really well

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<v Speaker 2>is where you have a situation where a team has

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<v Speaker 2>kind of or a couple players have have got Walker

0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:30.360
<v Speaker 2>Cup Brain team, a couple players have separated themselves when

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<v Speaker 2>we get these great kind of showdowns, and it's not

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<v Speaker 2>like we need to see the guy that's in fifth

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<v Speaker 2>place make a birdie to pull himself within six with

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<v Speaker 2>four to go, you know, but where you can show

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<v Speaker 2>a really nice transition of maybe twelve to thirteen, or

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<v Speaker 2>probably the best one out there would be even thirteen

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<v Speaker 2>to fourteen or eleven to twelve. And I think, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>holding on those shots allowing the audience to get a

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<v Speaker 2>feel of the tournament. And what it does is it

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<v Speaker 2>kind of simulates how you feel at the event when

0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:11.559
<v Speaker 2>you're watching, and that that kind of tension that exists

0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:17.160
<v Speaker 2>when you're in person watching these shots unfold, right, There's

0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:22.120
<v Speaker 2>like a silent tension that comes in as players go

0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:24.480
<v Speaker 2>through their routines and get ready to hit the shot.

0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:28.400
<v Speaker 2>You feel that anxiety of the moment. And I think

0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.760
<v Speaker 2>that's something with with golf telecasts. And this is something

0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:34.200
<v Speaker 2>you just hit on that I had never really thought of,

0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:38.160
<v Speaker 2>But that's something in golf telecasts because of and listen,

0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:41.840
<v Speaker 2>I get like, show more shots, show more shots, show

0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:46.760
<v Speaker 2>more shots, but there is something to allowing somebody to

0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.880
<v Speaker 2>sit in the tension that has been missed a lot

0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:54.520
<v Speaker 2>of times in particularly big moments are over big shots.

0:14:56.400 --> 0:15:01.040
<v Speaker 3>It's just proper storytelling. Yes, it does convey the feeling

0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.680
<v Speaker 3>of being at a tournament. When you're at a tournament,

0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:05.760
<v Speaker 3>there are a lot of silent moments. When you're playing golf,

0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.120
<v Speaker 3>there are a lot of silent moments, and so it

0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:10.760
<v Speaker 3>would give the feeling of an actual golf round or

0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:14.000
<v Speaker 3>watching an actual golf round. But more than that, proper

0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:19.840
<v Speaker 3>storytelling involves an ebb and flow of tension. Sometimes there

0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:23.800
<v Speaker 3>is slackening tension. Sometimes there needs to be a moment

0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:28.400
<v Speaker 3>of silence or kind of low activity. And Cyprus Point

0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:33.920
<v Speaker 3>embodies this principle of storytelling itself because within that golf

0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:37.400
<v Speaker 3>course you have moments of low tension and moments of

0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:41.560
<v Speaker 3>high tension and high excitement. So mackenzie was aware of

0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:47.240
<v Speaker 3>this storytelling principle and incorporated it into his ideas for

0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:51.040
<v Speaker 3>Cyprus Point. And I wish, yeah, I wish tournament telecasts

0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:55.359
<v Speaker 3>would kind of go to school on those longstanding principles

0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:58.680
<v Speaker 3>of storytelling and say, yeah, we don't need to be

0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:02.800
<v Speaker 3>jumping from to golf shot. I think when golf fans

0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.200
<v Speaker 3>say that they want to see a lot of golf shots,

0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.560
<v Speaker 3>that they're not actually saying we want as many golf

0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.600
<v Speaker 3>shots as possible to be packed into as little time

0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.760
<v Speaker 3>as possible. I think they're saying, we want fewer commercials,

0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:19.280
<v Speaker 3>and we want fewer CEO interviews. We want less irrelevant stuff,

0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.840
<v Speaker 3>we want less non golf stuff. We want the golf

0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:24.400
<v Speaker 3>to be the star. But to make the golf the star,

0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:27.520
<v Speaker 3>it's not just about showing a lot of golf shots.

0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:32.160
<v Speaker 3>It's also about having these moments of reflection where you

0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:36.560
<v Speaker 3>can familiarize yourself with the venue, the golf course, the design,

0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:40.920
<v Speaker 3>and the atmosphere of a golf tournament. And yeah, I

0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:44.400
<v Speaker 3>crave that kind of stuff. I would I would definitely

0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:50.800
<v Speaker 3>like fewer golf shots in most tournament telecasts and more more,

0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:55.320
<v Speaker 3>you know, focus on telling the story of a golf tournament.

0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:59.640
<v Speaker 3>Be selective, be smart about what you're showing. I don't.

0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:01.920
<v Speaker 3>It's it's asking for a lot because I know they

0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.760
<v Speaker 3>need to include the commercials that they include, they'd have

0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:09.000
<v Speaker 3>these sponsor obligations, et cetera. But this is just what

0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.399
<v Speaker 3>I would want as a viewer and watching this Walker

0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:13.720
<v Speaker 3>Cup reminded me of that, because I didn't feel like

0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:19.000
<v Speaker 3>I was being beaten down by a commercial load or

0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:21.160
<v Speaker 3>that there were all these kind of you know, corporate

0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.520
<v Speaker 3>entities that needed to be serviced during the telecast. It

0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.800
<v Speaker 3>was much more about the golf and I really appreciated that.

0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:29.879
<v Speaker 3>And of course when you're at a place like Cyprus Point,

0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:34.639
<v Speaker 3>it becomes a kind of religious experience to watch golf

0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:35.400
<v Speaker 3>in this way.

0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:40.040
<v Speaker 2>I yeah. To me, like an area that they never show,

0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:47.160
<v Speaker 2>right is like you see players hit fundamentally tournament changing

0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:52.720
<v Speaker 2>shot on Sunday, and when that happens, they have a

0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:56.440
<v Speaker 2>walk up to the green from usually an approach shot,

0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:02.560
<v Speaker 2>and we always cut away there and that walk, I

0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:06.159
<v Speaker 2>think is a fascinating one. This kind of lies with

0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.960
<v Speaker 2>what you're saying, especially especially in the case of if

0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.640
<v Speaker 2>it's two players in the same group duking it out,

0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:17.879
<v Speaker 2>as you often get, but you get a player walking

0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:21.080
<v Speaker 2>up to the green and that whole moment of will

0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:25.360
<v Speaker 2>will they cash this? In that tension of it them

0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.840
<v Speaker 2>acknowledging and dealing with a crowd that's going to be

0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:34.359
<v Speaker 2>very supportive in that situation. These are all like things

0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:37.680
<v Speaker 2>that I when I go to tournaments, you like kind

0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:41.000
<v Speaker 2>of watch and feel I think like for me, one

0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:43.040
<v Speaker 2>of the things I took away from this week is

0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:47.159
<v Speaker 2>like just you know, match play obviously is a phenomenal

0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:50.439
<v Speaker 2>thing to watch, but just to watch the ebb and

0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:55.480
<v Speaker 2>flow and the the in between shots mannerisms of players,

0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:59.680
<v Speaker 2>particularly young players, that some of them show their emotions

0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:02.000
<v Speaker 2>a little bit more than you get on PGA Tour

0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:05.200
<v Speaker 2>because they're younger, and you know, they're feeling more things

0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:06.040
<v Speaker 2>and they haven't.

0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:08.080
<v Speaker 1>Things as much.

0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:11.439
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, like it was standardized, it's less standardized golf.

0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:11.679
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:15.520
<v Speaker 2>It was fascinating to watch how like these you could

0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:19.000
<v Speaker 2>see players tempos and pre shot routines, like kind of

0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:23.440
<v Speaker 2>differing from shot to shot based off of circumstances. And

0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.120
<v Speaker 2>and I think that's something with the with the PGA Tour,

0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:26.920
<v Speaker 2>you start to like.

0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.480
<v Speaker 1>You you get blind or are.

0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:35.200
<v Speaker 2>Almost oblivious to because these guys get just so good

0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:40.840
<v Speaker 2>at refining their process and can you know, like you

0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:44.200
<v Speaker 2>you talk to these sports psychologists and and and tour

0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:48.439
<v Speaker 2>or that and coaches, and they talk about how you know,

0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:51.720
<v Speaker 2>you just try these guys practice routines now where they

0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:54.359
<v Speaker 2>practice how they get into a ball and you're watching

0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:57.520
<v Speaker 2>these matches and depending on the moments, like you see

0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:02.720
<v Speaker 2>guys just going faster or slower, and it's a it's

0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:05.439
<v Speaker 2>one of those, you know. And I know we're talking

0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:09.160
<v Speaker 2>really nitty gritty here about golf, but I think it's

0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:11.400
<v Speaker 2>one of the things that makes the game really beautiful.

0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:15.520
<v Speaker 2>And it's so hard to convey through a TV. But

0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.359
<v Speaker 2>I think one of the I guess things that I

0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:22.760
<v Speaker 2>took away and I think you hit on this a

0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:26.000
<v Speaker 2>little bit, is just how pure of a golf event

0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:29.040
<v Speaker 2>this is. This is this is golf, you know, the

0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:33.880
<v Speaker 2>walker cups like you know, golf four oh one, and

0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:37.680
<v Speaker 2>the wonderful nature. And I don't you know, some of

0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:40.000
<v Speaker 2>the broadcasts did not live up to this. I think

0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:44.280
<v Speaker 2>the the some of the broadcast crew, you know, just

0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:50.280
<v Speaker 2>frankly didn't do their homework or But anyways, this, this

0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:53.360
<v Speaker 2>high level of golf is what we should be conveying

0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:55.720
<v Speaker 2>more often because it is.

0:20:58.720 --> 0:20:59.640
<v Speaker 1>Not dumbing down.

0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:04.000
<v Speaker 2>Golf provide such a sophisticated and wonderful product that people

0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:06.679
<v Speaker 2>are just going to love. And when people love stuff,

0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:08.840
<v Speaker 2>other people become interested in it.

0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:14.520
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, people, people are attracted to passion. They want

0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:17.760
<v Speaker 3>to find out more about it, and yeah, it's it's

0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.120
<v Speaker 3>a kind of an indication of where we are that

0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:24.480
<v Speaker 3>that feels so rare in professional golf these days, that

0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:29.080
<v Speaker 3>the focus so rarely seems to be on a passion

0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:33.840
<v Speaker 3>for golf. But there's really no you know, no, there's

0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:37.840
<v Speaker 3>no financial reason for the Walker Cup. Who exists exist?

0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:40.280
<v Speaker 3>I think I think it exists for for the love

0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:43.400
<v Speaker 3>of the game primarily, you know, yeah, you know, it's

0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:47.760
<v Speaker 3>not it's not completely altruistic or anything. It's certainly people

0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:49.840
<v Speaker 3>paid to be on site, and you know, it's a

0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:52.879
<v Speaker 3>good it's probably a good branding exercise for the USGA,

0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:55.360
<v Speaker 3>et cetera, et cetera. But at the core of it,

0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:57.919
<v Speaker 3>the main reason that it exists is the love of

0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:02.080
<v Speaker 3>the game. And that's that's always something that's fun to

0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:04.960
<v Speaker 3>be part of and inspirational to be part of. So

0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:08.040
<v Speaker 3>you were Andy, you were actually on site here. We've

0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:11.360
<v Speaker 3>we've talked a bit about the about the broadcast experience,

0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:15.399
<v Speaker 3>the at home experience. I'm really curious about some of

0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:18.719
<v Speaker 3>your some of your on site observations. Was there anything

0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:22.000
<v Speaker 3>new that you found out about the golf course seeing

0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:27.439
<v Speaker 3>these guys, these guys play it. Yeah, I thought it.

0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:30.159
<v Speaker 3>I thought it held up well. I mean I expected

0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:34.800
<v Speaker 3>I expected these guys to overwhelm certain holes like thirteen

0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:40.199
<v Speaker 3>for instance. You know, like thirteen is somewhat defenseless to

0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:43.879
<v Speaker 3>a degree. But I was actually pretty pleased to see

0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:47.159
<v Speaker 3>that the golf course was pushing back a bit on

0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:48.040
<v Speaker 3>certain holes.

0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:52.920
<v Speaker 2>I kind of walked away with I think that this

0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:59.480
<v Speaker 2>event more pushed like the anybody that watched this event.

0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:05.159
<v Speaker 2>We need a ball roll back, We need just a

0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:07.560
<v Speaker 2>general equipment roll back would be.

0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:08.800
<v Speaker 1>By general thought.

0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:15.400
<v Speaker 2>Many of the hazards of Cyprus point we're just being

0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:21.560
<v Speaker 2>bypassed by just hitting it over them. I was watching

0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:27.400
<v Speaker 2>the Nile Shields done again Jacob Midlesky match on Saturday afternoon.

0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:35.160
<v Speaker 2>Midleski he really moves the ball, and you know on twelve,

0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:39.919
<v Speaker 2>you know part four and anybody that's played there like

0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:43.920
<v Speaker 2>that right side is just sneaky. It just eats golf balls.

0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:46.200
<v Speaker 2>It's a really it's kind of a tricky t shot.

0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:49.919
<v Speaker 2>You just feel like you can hit it right and

0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:54.959
<v Speaker 2>cover this like sandy area. But it just seemingly like

0:23:55.080 --> 0:23:58.200
<v Speaker 2>if you are if you don't play pretty conservative about

0:23:58.200 --> 0:24:00.600
<v Speaker 2>that tea, that right side will just swallow off balls.

0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:05.200
<v Speaker 2>And on Saturday, Midleski just gets up. You could tell

0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:08.639
<v Speaker 2>he's gonna put a little extra into this one, and

0:24:08.680 --> 0:24:12.280
<v Speaker 2>he just hits it over everything and he's left with

0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:16.680
<v Speaker 2>like fifty sixty yards into that green and it's like, oh, well,

0:24:17.880 --> 0:24:20.040
<v Speaker 2>I guess it's pretty simple when you can do that,

0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:24.679
<v Speaker 2>And I think like that would be the thing to

0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:28.439
<v Speaker 2>be that uh, you know, as great as as it

0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:31.280
<v Speaker 2>was to watch the golf out there, there wasn't much wind,

0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:34.280
<v Speaker 2>and I don't think the golf course has a lot

0:24:34.320 --> 0:24:37.240
<v Speaker 2>of strategy at sixty six hundred yards with how far.

0:24:37.160 --> 0:24:39.240
<v Speaker 1>These guys hit the ball.

0:24:39.640 --> 0:24:42.520
<v Speaker 2>There were not decisions being made on any part five,

0:24:43.720 --> 0:24:46.200
<v Speaker 2>whether they were long part fours or part fives, because

0:24:46.240 --> 0:24:48.240
<v Speaker 2>they converted them must.

0:24:48.280 --> 0:24:50.240
<v Speaker 3>Unless it was should I pull my fifty six or

0:24:50.280 --> 0:24:50.800
<v Speaker 3>my sixty?

0:24:51.600 --> 0:24:54.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well you watch these, you watch like a great

0:24:55.000 --> 0:25:00.720
<v Speaker 2>hole like like five where you know it, And I think, like,

0:25:00.760 --> 0:25:04.119
<v Speaker 2>this is the point of the rollback is, you know.

0:25:04.560 --> 0:25:08.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't think I'm necessarily a short hitter. I'm I'm

0:25:08.480 --> 0:25:11.840
<v Speaker 2>I would be short by PGA Tour standards, but I

0:25:11.840 --> 0:25:13.600
<v Speaker 2>think about the way I play five and I have

0:25:13.680 --> 0:25:16.160
<v Speaker 2>to kind of like bend it around a cross bunker

0:25:16.359 --> 0:25:18.359
<v Speaker 2>that cuts in and I have to hit I have

0:25:18.400 --> 0:25:20.119
<v Speaker 2>to get on that tee and I got to hit

0:25:20.119 --> 0:25:22.920
<v Speaker 2>a draw on on that hole. And if I could

0:25:22.960 --> 0:25:25.359
<v Speaker 2>hit a draw, it's such a fun t shot because

0:25:25.359 --> 0:25:28.679
<v Speaker 2>it kind of banks around this bunker that cuts in

0:25:28.720 --> 0:25:30.320
<v Speaker 2>from the left on a diagonal.

0:25:30.680 --> 0:25:31.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and you're.

0:25:31.320 --> 0:25:34.200
<v Speaker 2>Watching these kids just all just hit it right over

0:25:34.240 --> 0:25:36.639
<v Speaker 2>the bunker and they end up down in the valley.

0:25:36.840 --> 0:25:39.320
<v Speaker 2>And then they had got you know, a relatively short

0:25:39.359 --> 0:25:42.920
<v Speaker 2>iron like eight irons and such into the into the green.

0:25:43.000 --> 0:25:44.960
<v Speaker 2>That's really cool. It's up on a ridge. But when

0:25:44.960 --> 0:25:47.959
<v Speaker 2>you're hitting an eight iron in it's just it's just

0:25:48.359 --> 0:25:52.120
<v Speaker 2>mutes so much of the you know, interest of that.

0:25:52.240 --> 0:25:55.600
<v Speaker 2>And and there was no thoughts of any sorts of

0:25:55.680 --> 0:25:59.240
<v Speaker 2>layup on that hole. You know, I didn't want is.

0:25:59.280 --> 0:26:02.640
<v Speaker 3>So interesting there too. Yeah, that's the problem. It's such

0:26:02.680 --> 0:26:06.399
<v Speaker 3>a nuanced layup on that par five because you can

0:26:06.480 --> 0:26:09.560
<v Speaker 3>kind of be close to the cross bunkers, you know,

0:26:09.920 --> 0:26:12.800
<v Speaker 3>get just over the cross bunkers and be up high,

0:26:13.320 --> 0:26:16.080
<v Speaker 3>or if you go farther past the cross bunkers, you'll

0:26:16.119 --> 0:26:17.840
<v Speaker 3>be closer to the green, but you'll be down in

0:26:17.880 --> 0:26:20.960
<v Speaker 3>this gully, and so there are a number of different

0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:23.480
<v Speaker 3>options on how to play that layup. There's also kind

0:26:23.480 --> 0:26:26.040
<v Speaker 3>of right and left options as well, and just for

0:26:26.080 --> 0:26:28.360
<v Speaker 3>that to be bypassed entirely and to have the whole

0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:30.679
<v Speaker 3>play as a part four is a bummer.

0:26:31.800 --> 0:26:32.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:26:32.160 --> 0:26:34.840
<v Speaker 2>And it's like even more so like a whole like two,

0:26:35.240 --> 0:26:40.679
<v Speaker 2>which is a longer par five. It was just everybody's

0:26:40.720 --> 0:26:43.040
<v Speaker 2>going for the green, even whether you were in position

0:26:43.119 --> 0:26:45.720
<v Speaker 2>or out of position. And then that layup there's some

0:26:45.840 --> 0:26:50.399
<v Speaker 2>interesting bunkers in the layup area, but it didn't matter

0:26:50.480 --> 0:26:53.480
<v Speaker 2>because they're just hitting it past it. So I think

0:26:53.520 --> 0:26:56.439
<v Speaker 2>like one of the things for me was was just

0:26:56.680 --> 0:26:58.800
<v Speaker 2>and I think there was it was very intentional with

0:26:58.880 --> 0:27:02.040
<v Speaker 2>Cyprus Point. They want to say, we did not build

0:27:02.040 --> 0:27:05.119
<v Speaker 2>any bactees for this event. You're coming and you're playing

0:27:05.119 --> 0:27:08.040
<v Speaker 2>the golf course as is. And one of the things

0:27:08.040 --> 0:27:12.200
<v Speaker 2>that happened because they did that was it illuminated the

0:27:12.240 --> 0:27:17.000
<v Speaker 2>massive distance issue in the sport of golf, where you know,

0:27:17.200 --> 0:27:22.880
<v Speaker 2>there that stretch of holes really like eleven Cyper's Point,

0:27:23.000 --> 0:27:26.600
<v Speaker 2>you know it punched back into places, but holes eleven, twelve,

0:27:26.760 --> 0:27:31.520
<v Speaker 2>thirteen are very challenging, is a very challenge of really

0:27:31.560 --> 0:27:34.399
<v Speaker 2>eleven through fourteen, it's a very challenging stretch of holes

0:27:34.440 --> 0:27:38.920
<v Speaker 2>out there. But you know, eleven, they're hitting short irons

0:27:38.920 --> 0:27:42.280
<v Speaker 2>into it's a you know, maybe even wedges into it's

0:27:42.320 --> 0:27:45.760
<v Speaker 2>a four hundred and seventy yard part four they you know, twelve,

0:27:45.840 --> 0:27:49.679
<v Speaker 2>they're hitting little flip ledges into thirteen's flip ledge. And

0:27:49.720 --> 0:27:52.520
<v Speaker 2>then fourteen because of the trees, forced them to hit,

0:27:52.720 --> 0:27:56.399
<v Speaker 2>you know, a shot of consequence in terms of like

0:27:56.480 --> 0:28:01.119
<v Speaker 2>an eight iron into a green that pels in all ways.

0:28:01.160 --> 0:28:04.840
<v Speaker 2>But you know, those that stretch of golf. You know,

0:28:04.920 --> 0:28:09.320
<v Speaker 2>outside of sixteen, there was no spot on the golf

0:28:09.359 --> 0:28:13.199
<v Speaker 2>course that had these like huge moments of consequence, and

0:28:13.240 --> 0:28:16.720
<v Speaker 2>that's because they were hitting such short clubs into them.

0:28:17.400 --> 0:28:21.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I guess I had low expectations for how Cypress

0:28:21.400 --> 0:28:24.359
<v Speaker 3>Point would hold up in this tournament because I'm aware

0:28:24.359 --> 0:28:27.360
<v Speaker 3>of how far these guys hit the ball, and I'm

0:28:27.359 --> 0:28:29.920
<v Speaker 3>also aware of the dimensions of cypress Point, which are

0:28:29.960 --> 0:28:33.320
<v Speaker 3>more suited to a player like me than they are

0:28:33.400 --> 0:28:39.040
<v Speaker 3>to Jackson coyven. So I was at least pleased to see,

0:28:39.200 --> 0:28:46.040
<v Speaker 3>at least from home, that there were challenging shots out

0:28:46.040 --> 0:28:51.400
<v Speaker 3>there that the greens were giving these guys fits in

0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:55.800
<v Speaker 3>some places, and if they missed in the wrong place,

0:28:55.880 --> 0:28:59.640
<v Speaker 3>they ended up in these native areas that had a

0:28:59.640 --> 0:29:04.000
<v Speaker 3>lot of unpredictability. The dunesy areas at Cypress we talked

0:29:04.040 --> 0:29:06.640
<v Speaker 3>about earlier how they've been cleared out recently, and I

0:29:06.680 --> 0:29:10.040
<v Speaker 3>think that that has enhanced the chanciness of them. There's

0:29:10.080 --> 0:29:13.720
<v Speaker 3>a little bit of Pinehurst there where sometimes you can

0:29:13.920 --> 0:29:16.239
<v Speaker 3>end up in a patch of ice plant, or you

0:29:16.280 --> 0:29:18.800
<v Speaker 3>can end up in some weird native grasses, or you

0:29:18.840 --> 0:29:21.960
<v Speaker 3>can just get a weird beachy lye in the sand,

0:29:22.520 --> 0:29:24.960
<v Speaker 3>and you're in a lot of trouble. You can't you

0:29:25.000 --> 0:29:27.920
<v Speaker 3>can't properly get the club on the ball. Then the

0:29:27.920 --> 0:29:31.880
<v Speaker 3>cypress trees themselves if you if you miss on fourteen

0:29:32.240 --> 0:29:36.680
<v Speaker 3>or on eighteen. Cypress trees are not a fun type

0:29:36.720 --> 0:29:38.800
<v Speaker 3>of tree to hit a golf ball out of.

0:29:39.200 --> 0:29:41.240
<v Speaker 1>You know, they're worry about you got worry about them

0:29:41.320 --> 0:29:41.959
<v Speaker 1>getting stuck.

0:29:42.480 --> 0:29:45.200
<v Speaker 3>You got yeah, well you got to worry about injury. Probably.

0:29:45.200 --> 0:29:48.719
<v Speaker 3>There are all these like low branches and just you know,

0:29:49.160 --> 0:29:55.920
<v Speaker 3>gnarrowly twisted sort of forms that again provide unpredictability. And

0:29:55.960 --> 0:29:58.680
<v Speaker 3>so I liked seeing some of that. I liked that

0:29:58.800 --> 0:30:03.560
<v Speaker 3>the course was seeming to provide at least some interesting

0:30:03.720 --> 0:30:07.800
<v Speaker 3>scenarios for these guys. But if you look at the

0:30:07.840 --> 0:30:13.040
<v Speaker 3>design intent of especially the bunkering at Cyprus Point, which

0:30:13.040 --> 0:30:18.160
<v Speaker 3>bunkers Mackenzie really meant to factor into t shots, then

0:30:18.320 --> 0:30:21.720
<v Speaker 3>you can see that those have have clearly become irrelevant

0:30:22.160 --> 0:30:25.239
<v Speaker 3>for players of this kind. And really the bunkers that

0:30:25.360 --> 0:30:29.360
<v Speaker 3>are affecting their decision making off the tee are often

0:30:29.400 --> 0:30:33.040
<v Speaker 3>bunkers that were meant to guard against second shots, and

0:30:33.080 --> 0:30:36.560
<v Speaker 3>so you know, things have just gotten ridiculous and out

0:30:36.560 --> 0:30:37.000
<v Speaker 3>of control.

0:30:37.160 --> 0:30:41.520
<v Speaker 2>Obviously, the uh I will say, like one of the

0:30:41.520 --> 0:30:45.440
<v Speaker 2>things that I didn't you know, I think gets lost

0:30:45.560 --> 0:30:49.280
<v Speaker 2>because of the land and the setting of Cyber's Point

0:30:50.080 --> 0:30:53.960
<v Speaker 2>that showed out great was just how good the greens

0:30:54.000 --> 0:30:58.240
<v Speaker 2>are and how interesting the greens at Cyper's Point are.

0:30:58.520 --> 0:30:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and they get.

0:30:59.760 --> 0:31:04.000
<v Speaker 2>Total overshadowed by everything else it has. You rarely hear

0:31:04.080 --> 0:31:07.120
<v Speaker 2>people say, you know, Cyper's Point, that's a great set

0:31:07.120 --> 0:31:10.520
<v Speaker 2>of greens, but they they really are a spectacular set

0:31:10.560 --> 0:31:12.880
<v Speaker 2>of greens that have a lot of variety. You know,

0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:16.920
<v Speaker 2>they have some some wild greens. One that kind of

0:31:17.080 --> 0:31:19.200
<v Speaker 2>just kept catching my eye when I walked by it

0:31:19.440 --> 0:31:21.640
<v Speaker 2>that you know, I never had given too much thought

0:31:21.640 --> 0:31:23.840
<v Speaker 2>to was like the tenth green, a hole in the

0:31:23.880 --> 0:31:26.920
<v Speaker 2>middle of the routing that you know, doesn't get talked

0:31:26.960 --> 0:31:28.640
<v Speaker 2>about it a lot, But then you look at that green.

0:31:28.720 --> 0:31:30.840
<v Speaker 1>You could just sit there and stare at it, you know.

0:31:30.920 --> 0:31:33.400
<v Speaker 2>And and and then they have just some greens that

0:31:34.080 --> 0:31:38.360
<v Speaker 2>rely on tilt that are really really fantastic greens, and

0:31:38.600 --> 0:31:41.600
<v Speaker 2>especially coupled with the firmness that they were able to

0:31:41.640 --> 0:31:44.440
<v Speaker 2>get because obviously, you know, we got rain today, which

0:31:44.520 --> 0:31:48.960
<v Speaker 2>was very shocking in September, but there hasn't been rain

0:31:49.120 --> 0:31:53.880
<v Speaker 2>since since April, so it just provided an unbelievable opportunity

0:31:53.960 --> 0:31:59.400
<v Speaker 2>to present a really firm surface that really rewarded great

0:31:59.480 --> 0:32:02.680
<v Speaker 2>strikes in great shots.

0:32:03.240 --> 0:32:06.360
<v Speaker 3>It's good that it was firm. It's not always a

0:32:06.360 --> 0:32:08.080
<v Speaker 3>guarantee on the Monterey Peninsula.

0:32:08.960 --> 0:32:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh and in summer, I think it's got It had

0:32:13.120 --> 0:32:14.880
<v Speaker 2>very little chance of not being firm.

0:32:15.200 --> 0:32:19.640
<v Speaker 3>End of summer is yeah, definitely the best time. And yeah,

0:32:19.680 --> 0:32:21.240
<v Speaker 3>I always kind of wonder what it would be like

0:32:21.280 --> 0:32:24.920
<v Speaker 3>to have a big tournament at Pebble Beach in August

0:32:24.960 --> 0:32:28.000
<v Speaker 3>or September. I think that would be a very different

0:32:28.120 --> 0:32:30.120
<v Speaker 3>kind of golf course than the one that we see

0:32:30.120 --> 0:32:32.560
<v Speaker 3>in that we see in February or even June for

0:32:33.280 --> 0:32:34.080
<v Speaker 3>the US Open.

0:32:34.400 --> 0:32:38.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, was condition from the Pebble Beach company about how

0:32:38.040 --> 0:32:40.960
<v Speaker 2>they just need to convince the usj to move the

0:32:42.000 --> 0:32:43.440
<v Speaker 2>US Open to September.

0:32:47.560 --> 0:32:51.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, that's that's kind of what we're relying on with,

0:32:52.280 --> 0:32:55.800
<v Speaker 3>you know, a US Open at Pebble Beach every five

0:32:55.840 --> 0:32:58.440
<v Speaker 3>years for the next fifty years. But in any case,

0:32:59.360 --> 0:33:04.320
<v Speaker 3>back to SIPs Uh, the the greens are are incredible,

0:33:04.360 --> 0:33:09.120
<v Speaker 3>partly because they are original. I mean, those greens have

0:33:09.240 --> 0:33:13.640
<v Speaker 3>not been rebuilt. They don't have the you know, the

0:33:13.800 --> 0:33:19.240
<v Speaker 3>precision are underneath them. These are original push up alistair

0:33:19.240 --> 0:33:22.120
<v Speaker 3>Mackenzie greens. And part of what that means is that

0:33:22.280 --> 0:33:25.600
<v Speaker 3>a lot of them are a lot more tilted than

0:33:25.680 --> 0:33:29.920
<v Speaker 3>any modern architect would build the fourth Green for instance.

0:33:30.840 --> 0:33:35.400
<v Speaker 3>You know, you just wouldn't make a to the speeds exactly.

0:33:35.480 --> 0:33:38.840
<v Speaker 3>I mean, it's it's it is pushing it. You know,

0:33:39.400 --> 0:33:42.720
<v Speaker 3>those greens were obviously built to stimp at far far

0:33:42.840 --> 0:33:45.960
<v Speaker 3>slower rates than are expected now out of an elite

0:33:46.040 --> 0:33:49.760
<v Speaker 3>golf course. But the result is when when you bring

0:33:49.800 --> 0:33:54.280
<v Speaker 3>in some of the most talented golfers in the world.

0:33:54.960 --> 0:33:57.360
<v Speaker 3>You can turn up the speeds a little bit on

0:33:57.400 --> 0:34:00.520
<v Speaker 3>these greens and and they they push back quite a bit.

0:34:00.720 --> 0:34:04.920
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, that was always good to see. One small

0:34:05.280 --> 0:34:07.600
<v Speaker 3>thing that I was curious about, Andy, because we didn't

0:34:07.640 --> 0:34:10.680
<v Speaker 3>see this much on the telecast. But it's just like

0:34:10.719 --> 0:34:15.280
<v Speaker 3>a really particular curiosity I have about one hole at Cyprus,

0:34:15.760 --> 0:34:19.640
<v Speaker 3>and that's the eighth hole. Part of what makes the

0:34:19.680 --> 0:34:24.239
<v Speaker 3>design of the eighth hole really interesting is that it's

0:34:24.280 --> 0:34:27.440
<v Speaker 3>a split level fairway. So the fairway kind of sits

0:34:27.480 --> 0:34:31.040
<v Speaker 3>on a diagonal in relation to the tea, and a

0:34:31.160 --> 0:34:36.759
<v Speaker 3>dune ridge runs diagonally across the tee shot, and the

0:34:37.160 --> 0:34:39.479
<v Speaker 3>part of the fairway that is closest to the tee

0:34:40.200 --> 0:34:43.760
<v Speaker 3>is high up, and then the rest of the fairway

0:34:44.080 --> 0:34:48.080
<v Speaker 3>is low and you're hitting an approach into a tremendously

0:34:48.160 --> 0:34:52.680
<v Speaker 3>elevated and very severely contoured green, and so being up

0:34:52.719 --> 0:34:55.920
<v Speaker 3>on that higher portion of the fairway is a big advantage.

0:34:56.360 --> 0:34:58.799
<v Speaker 3>But in order to get there, you really have to

0:34:58.920 --> 0:35:02.400
<v Speaker 3>challenge that dune ridge and trust your shot because it

0:35:02.440 --> 0:35:05.800
<v Speaker 3>is completely blind to that portion of the fairway hitting

0:35:05.920 --> 0:35:10.000
<v Speaker 3>over the dunes. It's also like a pretty narrow section

0:35:10.040 --> 0:35:12.840
<v Speaker 3>of the fairway, so it's hard to even hold. But

0:35:12.880 --> 0:35:15.759
<v Speaker 3>I was wondering if you saw any any shots that

0:35:16.360 --> 0:35:19.040
<v Speaker 3>ended up on that higher portion of the fairway. Is

0:35:19.040 --> 0:35:21.239
<v Speaker 3>that even Oh is that something that they were looking

0:35:21.280 --> 0:35:21.480
<v Speaker 3>to do.

0:35:22.239 --> 0:35:24.080
<v Speaker 2>I think they were trying to And then you saw

0:35:24.360 --> 0:35:28.080
<v Speaker 2>like the the part of that, you know, is you

0:35:28.120 --> 0:35:30.560
<v Speaker 2>want to get up on that ridge and the worst place,

0:35:30.640 --> 0:35:35.120
<v Speaker 2>maybe maybe the worst miss outside of the ocean at

0:35:35.160 --> 0:35:39.040
<v Speaker 2>Cyprus Point is missing right on eight is off the tee.

0:35:39.160 --> 0:35:41.560
<v Speaker 1>Is it is effectively you are.

0:35:41.400 --> 0:35:44.279
<v Speaker 2>Not kicked out, Yeah, and you're just hoping you can

0:35:44.320 --> 0:35:46.439
<v Speaker 2>get the ball to the fairway from where you from

0:35:46.480 --> 0:35:47.279
<v Speaker 2>that spot.

0:35:48.200 --> 0:35:49.479
<v Speaker 1>So I saw some.

0:35:49.400 --> 0:35:52.359
<v Speaker 2>Players do that, and then I saw a good number

0:35:52.400 --> 0:35:54.279
<v Speaker 2>of players miss right into that.

0:35:54.840 --> 0:35:57.600
<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of players were.

0:35:56.920 --> 0:36:00.480
<v Speaker 2>Content to be very very conservative on that whole, and

0:36:00.600 --> 0:36:03.000
<v Speaker 2>they just were going to take the air one hundred

0:36:03.040 --> 0:36:06.360
<v Speaker 2>and fifty yard shot uphill into the green and just

0:36:06.560 --> 0:36:10.479
<v Speaker 2>not mess around with that and not do something silly, knowing, hey,

0:36:10.560 --> 0:36:12.560
<v Speaker 2>I can hit one of these shots in there close.

0:36:12.960 --> 0:36:15.680
<v Speaker 2>I think what would have been really interesting is, you know,

0:36:16.120 --> 0:36:17.480
<v Speaker 2>and enhance the tournament.

0:36:18.000 --> 0:36:18.200
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:20.560
<v Speaker 2>One of the big things that it was missing was

0:36:20.640 --> 0:36:23.640
<v Speaker 2>just breeze if we could have gotten a good breeze

0:36:23.680 --> 0:36:27.160
<v Speaker 2>and eight was all sudden playing into the wind, that shot,

0:36:27.320 --> 0:36:31.399
<v Speaker 2>that very conservative t shot is a lot less appetizing

0:36:31.440 --> 0:36:34.240
<v Speaker 2>when you're hitting one hundred and fifty yards into into

0:36:34.400 --> 0:36:37.320
<v Speaker 2>like a twenty mile an hour wind. Up fifty you

0:36:37.400 --> 0:36:40.960
<v Speaker 2>know what plays up like ten to fifteen yards. You know,

0:36:41.040 --> 0:36:43.000
<v Speaker 2>when if you got these guys all a sudden having

0:36:43.000 --> 0:36:46.120
<v Speaker 2>to hit seven's and six irons into that green instead

0:36:46.120 --> 0:36:49.640
<v Speaker 2>of nines or pitching wedges, they I think that they

0:36:49.680 --> 0:36:53.759
<v Speaker 2>would have wanted to challenge it even more. Okay, Yeah,

0:36:53.800 --> 0:36:55.799
<v Speaker 2>so that you know, the wind was the one thing

0:36:55.840 --> 0:36:57.919
<v Speaker 2>that just didn't show up, and I think like that's

0:36:57.960 --> 0:36:59.960
<v Speaker 2>the one thing that I wish we would have seen,

0:37:00.160 --> 0:37:03.719
<v Speaker 2>because particularly, you know, your young players, you tend to

0:37:03.719 --> 0:37:05.880
<v Speaker 2>see them struggle a little bit more in the wind,

0:37:05.920 --> 0:37:09.120
<v Speaker 2>and then the course would have presented probably a lot

0:37:09.200 --> 0:37:12.920
<v Speaker 2>more teeth. But you know, one of my one of

0:37:12.960 --> 0:37:16.200
<v Speaker 2>my other big takeaways was just I don't think the

0:37:16.280 --> 0:37:18.840
<v Speaker 2>recipe for golf is that hard.

0:37:20.400 --> 0:37:20.640
<v Speaker 1>To me.

0:37:20.800 --> 0:37:25.200
<v Speaker 2>Team match play at great golf courses is a pretty

0:37:25.360 --> 0:37:32.080
<v Speaker 2>unbeatable recipe. And you know, at this point, the only real,

0:37:32.600 --> 0:37:36.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, consistent version of of this is at the

0:37:36.160 --> 0:37:37.959
<v Speaker 2>Walker Cup or the Curtis Cup.

0:37:38.560 --> 0:37:43.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, because the writers kind of television goes to

0:37:43.400 --> 0:37:45.719
<v Speaker 3>bad golf courses for the most part.

0:37:47.719 --> 0:37:50.520
<v Speaker 2>But but this is this was a thing is like

0:37:51.360 --> 0:37:53.960
<v Speaker 2>and and these events and and I know like if

0:37:54.000 --> 0:37:56.040
<v Speaker 2>you tried to if you tried to scale this out,

0:37:56.160 --> 0:37:59.080
<v Speaker 2>you'd lose some of the luster of it. But these

0:37:59.160 --> 0:38:03.120
<v Speaker 2>events being able to be played at the world's best

0:38:03.120 --> 0:38:08.920
<v Speaker 2>golf courses are and the ease of understanding for a

0:38:09.400 --> 0:38:12.560
<v Speaker 2>common fan of what the event is. It's the US

0:38:12.920 --> 0:38:15.840
<v Speaker 2>versus the GB and I or in the Ryder Cups case,

0:38:16.320 --> 0:38:18.719
<v Speaker 2>US versus Europe the fandoms.

0:38:19.800 --> 0:38:21.080
<v Speaker 1>This is a good event.

0:38:21.480 --> 0:38:26.360
<v Speaker 2>This is a good style of event for golf because

0:38:26.360 --> 0:38:30.359
<v Speaker 2>it's easy to understand, it has fan interests because of

0:38:30.400 --> 0:38:33.279
<v Speaker 2>the nationality, rooting interests, and.

0:38:33.239 --> 0:38:34.520
<v Speaker 1>Then the great golf courses.

0:38:34.640 --> 0:38:38.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't think anybody that was, you know, that just

0:38:38.760 --> 0:38:42.480
<v Speaker 2>passed by wouldn't have been, you know, awestruck by the

0:38:42.600 --> 0:38:44.400
<v Speaker 2>visuals of Cyprus.

0:38:44.440 --> 0:38:44.720
<v Speaker 1>Point.

0:38:45.960 --> 0:38:51.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's it is pretty simple and yet pretty rare

0:38:52.719 --> 0:38:55.360
<v Speaker 3>for a lot of reasons, right. And I feel like

0:38:55.400 --> 0:39:00.360
<v Speaker 3>I've had this explain to me condescendingly so many times

0:39:00.400 --> 0:39:04.640
<v Speaker 3>over the years that I've just really gotten sick of it. No,

0:39:04.880 --> 0:39:08.800
<v Speaker 3>of course, we can't go to great golf courses because

0:39:09.000 --> 0:39:13.560
<v Speaker 3>the great golf courses don't want big tournaments. Say you know, no,

0:39:13.719 --> 0:39:17.080
<v Speaker 3>the Irish Open can't be at links courses. Of course

0:39:17.160 --> 0:39:19.279
<v Speaker 3>not we can't do that. We have to go to

0:39:19.320 --> 0:39:22.719
<v Speaker 3>the k Club and Mount Juliet because you know that

0:39:23.040 --> 0:39:25.960
<v Speaker 3>the links courses just just don't don't want the events.

0:39:26.080 --> 0:39:29.680
<v Speaker 3>That's unrealistic and it just kind of drives me crazy

0:39:29.719 --> 0:39:34.040
<v Speaker 3>because I think that golf fans have been browbeaten into

0:39:34.320 --> 0:39:40.480
<v Speaker 3>accepting mediocrity. But the Walker Cup exists. We have the

0:39:40.520 --> 0:39:43.600
<v Speaker 3>Walker Cup, so we know how good it can be.

0:39:45.080 --> 0:39:48.279
<v Speaker 3>And yet we've just convinced ourselves that this is not

0:39:49.520 --> 0:39:53.000
<v Speaker 3>a realistic model for golf. And I'm not sure how

0:39:53.000 --> 0:39:56.120
<v Speaker 3>to get out of that mindset. I am grateful for

0:39:56.160 --> 0:39:58.239
<v Speaker 3>the Walker Cup, but it is I mean, it's a

0:39:58.320 --> 0:40:02.440
<v Speaker 3>drop in the bucket in the the total landscape of

0:40:02.960 --> 0:40:09.080
<v Speaker 3>high profile, elite golf. They only had a total of

0:40:09.400 --> 0:40:13.360
<v Speaker 3>what six hours of TV coverage of this event. You

0:40:13.440 --> 0:40:16.080
<v Speaker 3>had to kind of seek it out and unless you

0:40:16.120 --> 0:40:16.479
<v Speaker 3>have peak.

0:40:17.800 --> 0:40:20.280
<v Speaker 1>That was one of my other other takeaways.

0:40:20.520 --> 0:40:24.240
<v Speaker 3>It is such a small event and I'm sure that

0:40:24.239 --> 0:40:29.239
<v Speaker 3>that there would be some resistance from the USGA and

0:40:29.280 --> 0:40:34.560
<v Speaker 3>the RNA to really commercializing this event. You wouldn't necessarily

0:40:34.600 --> 0:40:38.120
<v Speaker 3>have to commercialize it, maybe just cover more of it.

0:40:39.280 --> 0:40:45.640
<v Speaker 3>I wish that felt more possible. But it seems like

0:40:46.480 --> 0:40:49.839
<v Speaker 3>a precondition of the Walker Cup being as good as

0:40:49.920 --> 0:40:52.960
<v Speaker 3>it is going to the courses that it goes to

0:40:53.840 --> 0:40:57.360
<v Speaker 3>and just feeling as good and as pure as it does.

0:40:57.600 --> 0:41:00.520
<v Speaker 3>It seems like a precondition of that is that it

0:41:00.719 --> 0:41:04.399
<v Speaker 3>that it has to be somewhat obscure, and that's that's

0:41:04.480 --> 0:41:05.080
<v Speaker 3>kind of a shame.

0:41:06.760 --> 0:41:09.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I I you know, I don't know.

0:41:09.560 --> 0:41:13.920
<v Speaker 2>I I think about you know, obviously TGL is aimed

0:41:13.960 --> 0:41:18.280
<v Speaker 2>at being something completely different than this, but some sort

0:41:18.280 --> 0:41:18.880
<v Speaker 2>of I'd.

0:41:18.719 --> 0:41:20.280
<v Speaker 3>Like to see how you're going to bring these threads

0:41:20.280 --> 0:41:21.200
<v Speaker 3>together here, TJ.

0:41:21.600 --> 0:41:28.759
<v Speaker 2>But some sort of of league of teams that played small,

0:41:29.280 --> 0:41:34.400
<v Speaker 2>intimate matches at the world's best golf courses. You know,

0:41:34.520 --> 0:41:37.160
<v Speaker 2>I know that it could be difficult to do this,

0:41:37.400 --> 0:41:39.680
<v Speaker 2>To try and do this, I can't imagine that the

0:41:39.719 --> 0:41:41.040
<v Speaker 2>TV product would staining.

0:41:42.480 --> 0:41:45.640
<v Speaker 3>Well, what we're missing. Part of what we're missing here

0:41:45.760 --> 0:41:49.359
<v Speaker 3>is Shelle's wonderful world of golf that doesn't really have

0:41:49.440 --> 0:41:52.480
<v Speaker 3>the I guess the team component that you're looking for,

0:41:53.520 --> 0:41:57.000
<v Speaker 3>but you you could have some sort of nationality angle

0:41:57.120 --> 0:41:59.719
<v Speaker 3>come into play with with some matches, maybe you have

0:42:00.200 --> 0:42:04.560
<v Speaker 3>a foursome's match or something like that. But that was

0:42:04.960 --> 0:42:08.640
<v Speaker 3>Shelle's Wonderful World of Golf was a great combination of

0:42:08.680 --> 0:42:14.920
<v Speaker 3>these kind of small intimate matches driven by personality made

0:42:15.040 --> 0:42:22.080
<v Speaker 3>into a workable TV product. But nobody's been able to

0:42:22.160 --> 0:42:25.240
<v Speaker 3>recapture the magic of that program. Obviously it went away

0:42:25.880 --> 0:42:29.640
<v Speaker 3>in the nineties, so I mean it just hasn't survived

0:42:29.719 --> 0:42:35.600
<v Speaker 3>or resurfaced any any time in recent history. But something

0:42:35.640 --> 0:42:41.520
<v Speaker 3>like that would be a wonderful addition to the competitive

0:42:41.520 --> 0:42:42.960
<v Speaker 3>golf landscape.

0:42:43.160 --> 0:42:46.040
<v Speaker 2>I think the hard thing with this, and I want to,

0:42:46.360 --> 0:42:50.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, provide the counterpoint to what I just laid out,

0:42:51.760 --> 0:42:55.880
<v Speaker 2>is that golf, the commercial side of golf, has almost

0:42:56.000 --> 0:43:01.080
<v Speaker 2>become too big for a great golf product. And when

0:43:01.120 --> 0:43:04.720
<v Speaker 2>you think about Shell's Wonderful World of Golf, I would

0:43:04.760 --> 0:43:05.960
<v Speaker 2>love to see it come back.

0:43:06.880 --> 0:43:07.080
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:43:07.160 --> 0:43:10.960
<v Speaker 2>My biggest fear of it coming back would be then

0:43:11.760 --> 0:43:14.719
<v Speaker 2>the and I think probably the reality is that the

0:43:14.760 --> 0:43:18.239
<v Speaker 2>course selection would be dictated by who pays to be

0:43:18.840 --> 0:43:19.640
<v Speaker 2>a golf course.

0:43:19.960 --> 0:43:22.560
<v Speaker 3>Well just turn into the match, right, isn't The match

0:43:22.680 --> 0:43:25.160
<v Speaker 3>is like our current version of that, but of course

0:43:25.160 --> 0:43:26.440
<v Speaker 3>it's nowhere nowhere.

0:43:26.160 --> 0:43:30.359
<v Speaker 2>Close and it becomes in the match is just this

0:43:30.560 --> 0:43:35.480
<v Speaker 2>huge cash. It's just this huge commercial operation, which then

0:43:36.080 --> 0:43:41.120
<v Speaker 2>basically makes it so hard to have a great golf

0:43:41.160 --> 0:43:44.359
<v Speaker 2>product when you have a huge commercialization. And I don't

0:43:44.360 --> 0:43:47.759
<v Speaker 2>want to be naive and acts like it takes no

0:43:47.880 --> 0:43:50.759
<v Speaker 2>money to put these things on, but I just think

0:43:50.840 --> 0:43:54.200
<v Speaker 2>I would just love for somebody to take a long

0:43:54.280 --> 0:43:56.840
<v Speaker 2>range view of this and say, if I make a

0:43:56.880 --> 0:44:01.120
<v Speaker 2>great golf product, the payoff might not be day one

0:44:01.760 --> 0:44:04.160
<v Speaker 2>and it might not be year one, but if I

0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:07.080
<v Speaker 2>make a great golf product, eventually there will be a

0:44:07.120 --> 0:44:12.200
<v Speaker 2>bigger payoff than just making these golf products that seemingly

0:44:12.239 --> 0:44:17.040
<v Speaker 2>nobody asks for. And the walker cups this version of golf,

0:44:17.160 --> 0:44:21.800
<v Speaker 2>especially with modern television, modern capabilities, and we saw Golf

0:44:21.880 --> 0:44:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Channel put out there I think probably about a c effort,

0:44:26.800 --> 0:44:31.439
<v Speaker 2>but just because of the product that they were televising,

0:44:31.560 --> 0:44:33.880
<v Speaker 2>and when I say the product they were televising, the

0:44:33.920 --> 0:44:38.200
<v Speaker 2>golf course, the players, and the format this event, like

0:44:38.280 --> 0:44:41.960
<v Speaker 2>you're watching it and you're mesmerized like almost any unlike

0:44:42.120 --> 0:44:46.279
<v Speaker 2>almost any other event on the calendar all year, and

0:44:46.480 --> 0:44:52.200
<v Speaker 2>I just like, I guess that's my biggest gripe with

0:44:54.160 --> 0:44:56.840
<v Speaker 2>Shell's Wonderful World. If it comes back, it will be

0:44:57.040 --> 0:45:01.160
<v Speaker 2>killed by commercialization before it ever starts. And that's maybe

0:45:01.640 --> 0:45:05.360
<v Speaker 2>a very negative viewpoint on the subject, but it feels

0:45:05.400 --> 0:45:07.840
<v Speaker 2>to me like executives in golf cannot get out of

0:45:07.880 --> 0:45:11.400
<v Speaker 2>their own way with ruining something, and like the Walker

0:45:11.440 --> 0:45:17.120
<v Speaker 2>Cup in a way, the USGA, I think they don't.

0:45:17.200 --> 0:45:19.760
<v Speaker 2>They're like kind of they're confused about what they should

0:45:19.760 --> 0:45:24.480
<v Speaker 2>do with it because of the lack of commercial success

0:45:24.480 --> 0:45:27.480
<v Speaker 2>that it has in an organization that's become much more

0:45:27.760 --> 0:45:31.600
<v Speaker 2>focused on commercialization on top of many other things that

0:45:31.640 --> 0:45:34.520
<v Speaker 2>they do. I think it's confusing for them as to

0:45:34.520 --> 0:45:37.359
<v Speaker 2>what it should do. But it also might be the

0:45:37.400 --> 0:45:39.560
<v Speaker 2>best golf products that they own.

0:45:42.440 --> 0:45:47.400
<v Speaker 3>It's tremendous for their brand as an organization and the

0:45:47.560 --> 0:45:51.319
<v Speaker 3>RNA's brand as an organization to have this event in

0:45:51.360 --> 0:45:54.160
<v Speaker 3>their roster, and I think they should just see it

0:45:54.239 --> 0:46:01.680
<v Speaker 3>as this tournament represents us well and makes our rhetoric

0:46:02.480 --> 0:46:07.520
<v Speaker 3>that we are about preserving and defending and enriching the

0:46:07.600 --> 0:46:12.839
<v Speaker 3>game of golf. Seem legitimate, because if all you have

0:46:13.680 --> 0:46:18.480
<v Speaker 3>as you're you know, you know, your big products in

0:46:18.520 --> 0:46:23.799
<v Speaker 3>the world of golf are the us OPENS, then that

0:46:23.920 --> 0:46:26.480
<v Speaker 3>rhetoric is going to seem false. It's going to seem

0:46:26.560 --> 0:46:30.600
<v Speaker 3>like you are primarily a commercial organization rather than one

0:46:30.600 --> 0:46:36.160
<v Speaker 3>that is genuinely interested in the future of golf. But

0:46:36.600 --> 0:46:40.120
<v Speaker 3>if you're the organization or one of the organizations behind

0:46:40.280 --> 0:46:44.360
<v Speaker 3>the Walker Cup, then then then people might actually believe

0:46:44.360 --> 0:46:46.440
<v Speaker 3>you when you say you care about golf. And I

0:46:46.480 --> 0:46:49.000
<v Speaker 3>do believe that the USGA cares about golf. I really

0:46:49.000 --> 0:46:51.760
<v Speaker 3>do think that the people in charge love this event

0:46:52.239 --> 0:46:57.600
<v Speaker 3>and are devoted to the form of golf that it represents.

0:46:57.840 --> 0:47:01.319
<v Speaker 3>And it's because of their efforts that this tournament has

0:47:01.360 --> 0:47:06.560
<v Speaker 3>gone to such a great array of courses over the

0:47:06.960 --> 0:47:12.040
<v Speaker 3>past century. And so all credit to them for propping

0:47:12.040 --> 0:47:14.840
<v Speaker 3>this event up and keeping it going, but it should

0:47:14.880 --> 0:47:17.400
<v Speaker 3>be I hope there's not any doubt in the organization

0:47:18.000 --> 0:47:20.920
<v Speaker 3>that this is an important thing to keep going.

0:47:22.200 --> 0:47:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think I would echo your thoughts on the

0:47:25.520 --> 0:47:29.040
<v Speaker 2>us AA, LOV and golf. I think that that's very

0:47:29.040 --> 0:47:34.799
<v Speaker 2>evident with some of the decisions they've made. And I

0:47:34.800 --> 0:47:37.680
<v Speaker 2>think just in terms of you know, you spend time

0:47:37.719 --> 0:47:40.000
<v Speaker 2>with them at an event like this, it's it's clear.

0:47:40.120 --> 0:47:42.160
<v Speaker 1>You can see it on their faces how excited they

0:47:42.160 --> 0:47:44.920
<v Speaker 1>are about about the event. And I think that was.

0:47:46.480 --> 0:47:49.200
<v Speaker 2>It was a great week there. I want to talk

0:47:49.239 --> 0:47:51.799
<v Speaker 2>a little bit about about Beth Page too. Do you

0:47:51.800 --> 0:47:56.000
<v Speaker 2>have any parting thoughts on Cyprus that you want to

0:47:56.000 --> 0:47:56.319
<v Speaker 2>get out?

0:47:56.800 --> 0:47:59.960
<v Speaker 3>It was a wonderful weekend. Yeah, I hope everybody enjoyed it.

0:48:00.080 --> 0:48:02.359
<v Speaker 3>It was. It was really a time to kind of

0:48:02.680 --> 0:48:07.120
<v Speaker 3>sit and soak it in and enjoy a great golf course,

0:48:07.600 --> 0:48:10.879
<v Speaker 3>a super rare opportunity. If you think that, think about

0:48:10.920 --> 0:48:14.200
<v Speaker 3>how the last Walker Cup there was forty four years ago.

0:48:14.239 --> 0:48:17.320
<v Speaker 3>That is a long long time ago, and it might.

0:48:17.239 --> 0:48:19.239
<v Speaker 1>Be last Crosby was thirty five.

0:48:19.800 --> 0:48:22.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it might be a long time before before we

0:48:22.120 --> 0:48:24.759
<v Speaker 3>see it again. So so I hope everybody took a

0:48:24.880 --> 0:48:29.160
<v Speaker 3>chance to to just enjoy it, because I mean, what

0:48:29.239 --> 0:48:32.200
<v Speaker 3>a golf course. It's it's just incredible. So glad glad

0:48:32.200 --> 0:48:32.920
<v Speaker 3>that this happened.

0:48:34.640 --> 0:48:35.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I would.

0:48:35.480 --> 0:48:41.320
<v Speaker 2>The last thing I have is spectacular alternate shots, just spectacular.

0:48:41.480 --> 0:48:43.719
<v Speaker 3>Oh it's so good. They should they should have more

0:48:43.760 --> 0:48:44.960
<v Speaker 3>of it in the in the Walker Cup.

0:48:45.000 --> 0:48:48.400
<v Speaker 2>I feel I think that they got to figure something

0:48:48.440 --> 0:48:51.600
<v Speaker 2>out with the with the format because of the eighteenth

0:48:51.600 --> 0:48:53.120
<v Speaker 2>sickle smatches just singles.

0:48:53.120 --> 0:48:55.880
<v Speaker 3>There's is rough for GB and I yeah, just the

0:48:56.320 --> 0:49:00.479
<v Speaker 3>talent disparity. Really, it's it's hard to overcome that and

0:49:01.040 --> 0:49:03.360
<v Speaker 3>when you have those those two rounds of singles.

0:49:04.560 --> 0:49:08.640
<v Speaker 2>All right, before we get to Beth Page, let's talk

0:49:08.760 --> 0:49:12.960
<v Speaker 2>about one of our partners Best Day brewing. I actually

0:49:13.120 --> 0:49:16.680
<v Speaker 2>enjoyed some best Day this weekend. It was a great

0:49:16.680 --> 0:49:19.440
<v Speaker 2>way I was. I was I needed to manage my

0:49:19.560 --> 0:49:23.000
<v Speaker 2>energy over the over the course of the weekend, I

0:49:23.040 --> 0:49:25.160
<v Speaker 2>had a lot going on, a lot of a lot

0:49:25.200 --> 0:49:28.319
<v Speaker 2>of conversation, and one of the things I didn't want

0:49:28.360 --> 0:49:32.319
<v Speaker 2>to do was was kind of be be worse for

0:49:32.360 --> 0:49:35.200
<v Speaker 2>the wear on on a morning and miss out on

0:49:35.400 --> 0:49:40.040
<v Speaker 2>some of the wonderful experience that I had. And I think,

0:49:40.320 --> 0:49:43.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, best Day. I've really grown to enjoy this

0:49:43.360 --> 0:49:47.520
<v Speaker 2>because it is a opportunity. Is a non alcoholic beer

0:49:47.719 --> 0:49:50.600
<v Speaker 2>that is quite good. It is like basically your craft

0:49:50.600 --> 0:49:54.080
<v Speaker 2>beer that's a non alcoholic beer. I enjoy some of

0:49:54.120 --> 0:49:57.399
<v Speaker 2>their there and a beer is more than the real

0:49:57.440 --> 0:50:00.160
<v Speaker 2>beer I get. And one of the things I I've

0:50:00.280 --> 0:50:04.400
<v Speaker 2>learned about my consumption is like I think, like a

0:50:04.440 --> 0:50:06.880
<v Speaker 2>beer for me is somewhat of a ritual at this

0:50:07.000 --> 0:50:11.040
<v Speaker 2>point in my life, and I just enjoy having something

0:50:11.080 --> 0:50:14.640
<v Speaker 2>to drink, and this gives me something that's delicious to

0:50:14.719 --> 0:50:19.040
<v Speaker 2>drink and at that moment that I need it. So

0:50:20.680 --> 0:50:23.839
<v Speaker 2>if you want to check out best Day, it's Best

0:50:23.880 --> 0:50:27.600
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0:50:27.800 --> 0:50:31.280
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0:50:31.280 --> 0:50:33.760
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0:50:34.040 --> 0:50:36.400
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0:50:37.160 --> 0:50:40.160
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0:50:40.160 --> 0:50:45.520
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0:50:45.560 --> 0:50:48.200
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0:50:48.239 --> 0:50:50.319
<v Speaker 2>way to do that. And it's a great way to

0:50:50.400 --> 0:50:55.360
<v Speaker 2>kind of stay sharp and attune to something while you know,

0:50:55.480 --> 0:50:58.480
<v Speaker 2>having something that's really refreshing. So go to Best Day

0:50:58.480 --> 0:51:01.120
<v Speaker 2>Brewing dot com and big thanks to them for partnering

0:51:01.160 --> 0:51:01.720
<v Speaker 2>with pod.

0:51:02.400 --> 0:51:03.440
<v Speaker 1>Let's get to bed Page.

0:51:03.719 --> 0:51:06.600
<v Speaker 2>You you made your first trip out to this, uh,

0:51:07.520 --> 0:51:13.120
<v Speaker 2>I mean landmark American Landmark of golf beth Page State Park.

0:51:13.160 --> 0:51:15.319
<v Speaker 2>We're a couple of weeks away from the Ryder Cup.

0:51:15.400 --> 0:51:18.479
<v Speaker 2>I want to do kind of a short segment here.

0:51:18.560 --> 0:51:20.680
<v Speaker 2>I know we're going to be, you know, everybody in

0:51:20.680 --> 0:51:23.120
<v Speaker 2>the golf world is going to be just beating people

0:51:23.160 --> 0:51:25.880
<v Speaker 2>over the head with Ryder Cup stuff. But it is

0:51:26.320 --> 0:51:30.080
<v Speaker 2>a spectacle, and this year it's going to one of

0:51:30.600 --> 0:51:36.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, American golf's landmark locations, beth Page and particularly

0:51:36.120 --> 0:51:37.560
<v Speaker 2>the bath of the Black Course.

0:51:38.760 --> 0:51:41.879
<v Speaker 3>I feel like I've already been getting getting beat over

0:51:41.920 --> 0:51:44.440
<v Speaker 3>the head by Ryder Cup content, and.

0:51:44.800 --> 0:51:48.360
<v Speaker 2>Not just like if there wasn't a Walker Cup, I

0:51:48.400 --> 0:51:51.960
<v Speaker 2>know exactly, we have nothing else, it would have been awful.

0:51:52.040 --> 0:51:55.520
<v Speaker 3>It was very fortunate. You're right, You're absolutely right, because

0:51:55.560 --> 0:51:58.200
<v Speaker 3>right that the entire month of September would just be

0:51:58.320 --> 0:52:00.879
<v Speaker 3>a blitz. I mean it's been. I feel like Ryder

0:52:01.160 --> 0:52:05.400
<v Speaker 3>Cup content is an every year, year round kind of

0:52:05.520 --> 0:52:08.160
<v Speaker 3>kind of deal right now. But I haven't actually seen

0:52:08.160 --> 0:52:11.359
<v Speaker 3>that much discussion of the golf course. And that's why

0:52:11.600 --> 0:52:14.880
<v Speaker 3>part of why I was so interested in going to

0:52:14.960 --> 0:52:16.960
<v Speaker 3>see it. I mean, I was going to go see

0:52:17.000 --> 0:52:20.360
<v Speaker 3>it no matter what, but I was particularly excited about

0:52:20.360 --> 0:52:22.560
<v Speaker 3>this trip to go see the Black Course at beth

0:52:22.640 --> 0:52:26.800
<v Speaker 3>Page just because I feel like I haven't seen much

0:52:27.440 --> 0:52:31.480
<v Speaker 3>good content on this course. I haven't had anybody explain

0:52:31.560 --> 0:52:35.480
<v Speaker 3>to me what's unique or remarkable about this course beyond

0:52:35.480 --> 0:52:39.080
<v Speaker 3>the fact that it is very, very difficult. It has

0:52:39.120 --> 0:52:41.600
<v Speaker 3>that sign out front that just portrays it as kind

0:52:41.640 --> 0:52:46.479
<v Speaker 3>of the black Diamond Ski run of beth Page State Park.

0:52:46.560 --> 0:52:49.040
<v Speaker 3>We know that about it, we know that it's hard,

0:52:49.880 --> 0:52:53.400
<v Speaker 3>but beyond that, I didn't have a clear idea of

0:52:53.719 --> 0:52:58.120
<v Speaker 3>what to expect from this course. So I was very

0:52:58.320 --> 0:53:01.720
<v Speaker 3>very keen to get my eyes on this course, walk

0:53:01.760 --> 0:53:04.800
<v Speaker 3>it and check it out, and maybe find out some

0:53:05.280 --> 0:53:07.400
<v Speaker 3>things that I didn't know about it before.

0:53:08.280 --> 0:53:09.960
<v Speaker 1>What were you What was the big takeaway?

0:53:09.960 --> 0:53:13.560
<v Speaker 2>What was the thing that kind of to that most

0:53:13.680 --> 0:53:16.120
<v Speaker 2>resonated with you with the With the Black Course.

0:53:16.280 --> 0:53:20.799
<v Speaker 3>Two takeaways kind of related to each other. One is

0:53:21.520 --> 0:53:26.040
<v Speaker 3>a plus land, two is a plus routing. I think

0:53:26.080 --> 0:53:28.520
<v Speaker 3>those are the biggest strength strengths of the Black Course.

0:53:29.400 --> 0:53:33.000
<v Speaker 3>It's not that the course is hard. That's not the

0:53:33.120 --> 0:53:35.880
<v Speaker 3>leading characteristic of the black Horse or the thing that

0:53:35.960 --> 0:53:38.759
<v Speaker 3>makes it a high quality course. It's not just that

0:53:38.800 --> 0:53:43.120
<v Speaker 3>it's hard, though it is definitely very very difficult. I

0:53:43.160 --> 0:53:46.479
<v Speaker 3>think the fact that it sits on extremely good land.

0:53:47.000 --> 0:53:51.040
<v Speaker 3>They they obviously kind of selected the best land that

0:53:51.080 --> 0:53:54.959
<v Speaker 3>they had at their disposal in this area and put

0:53:55.000 --> 0:53:58.640
<v Speaker 3>the Black Course on it. Kind of prioritized the Black

0:53:58.640 --> 0:54:03.680
<v Speaker 3>Course in that way, and then the routing works with

0:54:03.760 --> 0:54:08.360
<v Speaker 3>the land so well. So, first of all, the land

0:54:08.600 --> 0:54:13.960
<v Speaker 3>I think is really great for golf because it's dramatic

0:54:14.680 --> 0:54:18.319
<v Speaker 3>and there's a lot of elevation change, a lot of

0:54:18.360 --> 0:54:24.200
<v Speaker 3>topographical interest, but it's never too severe. So you know,

0:54:24.239 --> 0:54:27.120
<v Speaker 3>Bethpage kind of sits on this land that is more

0:54:27.200 --> 0:54:31.720
<v Speaker 3>or less. You know, there's not like an overall tilt

0:54:31.760 --> 0:54:34.480
<v Speaker 3>to the land. It's not on a hillside or anything.

0:54:35.040 --> 0:54:38.239
<v Speaker 3>It doesn't you know that the farthest point of the

0:54:38.280 --> 0:54:42.799
<v Speaker 3>course is at about the same elevation as the first

0:54:42.880 --> 0:54:46.040
<v Speaker 3>t But what you have in between are all of

0:54:46.080 --> 0:54:50.160
<v Speaker 3>these kind of up and down ridges and valleys, and

0:54:50.200 --> 0:54:53.400
<v Speaker 3>they're very interesting and all of them are kind of

0:54:53.560 --> 0:54:58.080
<v Speaker 3>sized to accommodate golf holes, so you know, you know,

0:54:58.200 --> 0:55:02.120
<v Speaker 3>you never spend like multiple holes trying to get across

0:55:02.280 --> 0:55:06.560
<v Speaker 3>one landform at beth Page. You're always kind of tackling

0:55:07.040 --> 0:55:09.640
<v Speaker 3>a new landform and kind of getting done with it

0:55:10.320 --> 0:55:12.680
<v Speaker 3>by the end of the hole. And so it's just

0:55:13.160 --> 0:55:17.719
<v Speaker 3>very well proportioned land for a golf course. It's constantly

0:55:17.800 --> 0:55:23.120
<v Speaker 3>interesting and beautiful. You're always kind of discovering new features,

0:55:23.160 --> 0:55:26.239
<v Speaker 3>new little nooks and crannies of the property as you're

0:55:26.280 --> 0:55:29.640
<v Speaker 3>going through the golf course. So that's something that I

0:55:29.680 --> 0:55:33.319
<v Speaker 3>really enjoyed about it. And then the routing of the

0:55:33.360 --> 0:55:37.200
<v Speaker 3>course is just brilliant. It is an out and back routing. Basically,

0:55:37.840 --> 0:55:41.640
<v Speaker 3>it doesn't have returning nines, so I believe it is

0:55:41.760 --> 0:55:46.840
<v Speaker 3>the ninth tee that is the at the farthest point

0:55:47.160 --> 0:55:50.040
<v Speaker 3>from the clubhouse, or at least that's that's the way

0:55:50.280 --> 0:55:52.879
<v Speaker 3>it feels when when you're on the course, you play

0:55:52.920 --> 0:55:54.480
<v Speaker 3>the eighth hole, which is a par three, then you

0:55:54.520 --> 0:55:57.040
<v Speaker 3>climb up to the ninth tee and at that point

0:55:57.040 --> 0:56:00.000
<v Speaker 3>you're kind of making your way back to the clubhouse.

0:56:00.760 --> 0:56:04.480
<v Speaker 3>And so it is very much an out and back concept.

0:56:05.400 --> 0:56:08.600
<v Speaker 3>And part of what this does is that it makes

0:56:08.760 --> 0:56:12.480
<v Speaker 3>you feel like you're taking a journey into the wilderness

0:56:13.200 --> 0:56:17.799
<v Speaker 3>and you're being tested by this golf course, and then

0:56:18.120 --> 0:56:22.319
<v Speaker 3>you come back out presumably in an altered state, right

0:56:22.400 --> 0:56:26.000
<v Speaker 3>changed by the experience, and that to me is the

0:56:26.040 --> 0:56:28.480
<v Speaker 3>true theme of the golf course. This golf course is

0:56:28.520 --> 0:56:33.880
<v Speaker 3>a test of golfing skill. It's a test of courage

0:56:34.080 --> 0:56:39.439
<v Speaker 3>and metal. It's a test of what you've got internally right,

0:56:39.960 --> 0:56:43.200
<v Speaker 3>and in order to get tested, you plunge into the

0:56:43.200 --> 0:56:46.520
<v Speaker 3>wilderness and then you come back out. And when you

0:56:46.560 --> 0:56:50.799
<v Speaker 3>come back out, basically the course kind of crosses a

0:56:50.960 --> 0:56:55.239
<v Speaker 3>road to get into it, the course section of it.

0:56:55.600 --> 0:56:57.719
<v Speaker 3>So you play the first hole, then you cross a

0:56:57.840 --> 0:57:01.960
<v Speaker 3>road and you play holes too through fourteen. You cross

0:57:02.080 --> 0:57:06.400
<v Speaker 3>back over the road and play fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, and

0:57:06.560 --> 0:57:10.239
<v Speaker 3>eighteen in an area that is closer to the clubhouse.

0:57:11.040 --> 0:57:14.839
<v Speaker 3>When you come back into this area near the clubhouse

0:57:14.920 --> 0:57:18.400
<v Speaker 3>and you play those last four holes, you feel like

0:57:18.440 --> 0:57:21.560
<v Speaker 3>you're in an arena. You've taken this journey into the

0:57:21.600 --> 0:57:25.640
<v Speaker 3>wilderness and you've come back out into this arena where

0:57:25.640 --> 0:57:29.400
<v Speaker 3>you're administered the final test. You feel like you're like

0:57:29.480 --> 0:57:34.200
<v Speaker 3>a gladiator and you're in this coliseum of golf, and

0:57:34.800 --> 0:57:37.520
<v Speaker 3>that's what then brings you to the conclusion of the course.

0:57:38.080 --> 0:57:40.400
<v Speaker 3>So I think what the routing does, aside from using

0:57:40.440 --> 0:57:43.120
<v Speaker 3>the land really well and finding interesting ways to use

0:57:43.160 --> 0:57:46.000
<v Speaker 3>the land, you know, applying the golf holes to the

0:57:46.080 --> 0:57:50.440
<v Speaker 3>land in ways that are constantly changing and very cool,

0:57:51.240 --> 0:57:55.520
<v Speaker 3>the routing has this kind of coherence as a story

0:57:55.760 --> 0:57:59.480
<v Speaker 3>about what the golf course is. And that is something

0:57:59.520 --> 0:58:05.280
<v Speaker 3>that I did not understand from any previous coverage of

0:58:05.320 --> 0:58:07.920
<v Speaker 3>the golf course or seeing past tournaments at the course.

0:58:08.440 --> 0:58:11.040
<v Speaker 3>That's something you can only really feel when you when

0:58:11.080 --> 0:58:13.080
<v Speaker 3>you walk this course. So I think those are the

0:58:13.080 --> 0:58:14.920
<v Speaker 3>things that make Beth Page grade. It's it's the A

0:58:15.000 --> 0:58:19.200
<v Speaker 3>plus land, A plus routing. Those are those are super

0:58:19.240 --> 0:58:20.440
<v Speaker 3>strong when it comes to this course.

0:58:21.320 --> 0:58:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would say that in terms that you know

0:58:24.080 --> 0:58:26.840
<v Speaker 2>I I have. I don't love a lot like the

0:58:26.880 --> 0:58:29.160
<v Speaker 2>grass decisions, the grassing decisions, they.

0:58:29.080 --> 0:58:30.400
<v Speaker 3>Are and are way too narrow.

0:58:30.400 --> 0:58:31.200
<v Speaker 1>What I mean, it is like.

0:58:31.160 --> 0:58:34.040
<v Speaker 2>The fairway lines that you know they could be wider,

0:58:34.480 --> 0:58:38.480
<v Speaker 2>but in terms of of a golf course from t

0:58:38.800 --> 0:58:43.080
<v Speaker 2>to green, and it is about as impressive as it

0:58:43.120 --> 0:58:47.080
<v Speaker 2>gets in terms of the golf holes. And and I

0:58:47.080 --> 0:58:51.520
<v Speaker 2>haven't been out there since the PGA, but I vividly,

0:58:52.440 --> 0:58:56.560
<v Speaker 2>I have like vivid recall of really like the stretch

0:58:56.600 --> 0:59:01.280
<v Speaker 2>of two through nine to me is just such a

0:59:01.280 --> 0:59:05.520
<v Speaker 2>fantastic stretch of golf holes. In particular when you get

0:59:05.560 --> 0:59:09.520
<v Speaker 2>like four, five, six, seven, eight, it just you the

0:59:09.520 --> 0:59:13.000
<v Speaker 2>these holes they're like a roller coasters, soing through there

0:59:13.280 --> 0:59:17.280
<v Speaker 2>and They've got these beautiful twists and turns and in

0:59:17.320 --> 0:59:19.920
<v Speaker 2>these these landforms, as you said that you have to

0:59:20.000 --> 0:59:26.200
<v Speaker 2>kind of play over, down, around, and it is a

0:59:26.840 --> 0:59:31.240
<v Speaker 2>it is a sensational piece of land that this golf

0:59:31.280 --> 0:59:35.120
<v Speaker 2>course is on. And I think, you know, is it

0:59:35.200 --> 0:59:39.480
<v Speaker 2>my favorite golf course in the world. No, do. I

0:59:39.520 --> 0:59:43.920
<v Speaker 2>think it's like maybe the best, Uh, it might be

0:59:43.960 --> 0:59:45.520
<v Speaker 2>the best Ryder Cup venue.

0:59:45.280 --> 0:59:46.720
<v Speaker 1>We've had in some time.

0:59:47.600 --> 0:59:50.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think like Whistling Straits would be in the

0:59:50.760 --> 0:59:54.000
<v Speaker 2>in the conversation, but this should it, you know, And

0:59:54.040 --> 0:59:54.960
<v Speaker 2>I think it'll be.

0:59:56.600 --> 0:59:58.320
<v Speaker 1>The setup of it for the Ryder Cup.

0:59:58.440 --> 1:00:00.800
<v Speaker 2>I think they you know, they're they're obviously going to

1:00:00.920 --> 1:00:07.120
<v Speaker 2>promote scoring and I think like with the rough down,

1:00:07.280 --> 1:00:10.760
<v Speaker 2>if it's down, there will be a pretty good variance

1:00:10.760 --> 1:00:13.400
<v Speaker 2>in scoring on these holes. I think it could be

1:00:13.440 --> 1:00:16.800
<v Speaker 2>pretty fascinating. The thing that I'm most worried about is

1:00:16.840 --> 1:00:19.800
<v Speaker 2>just is it too easy to get up and down

1:00:19.840 --> 1:00:22.240
<v Speaker 2>from around the greens on that golf course at this

1:00:22.320 --> 1:00:25.120
<v Speaker 2>point with where the modern game is because like the

1:00:25.600 --> 1:00:28.160
<v Speaker 2>identity of that golf course, what made it so tough

1:00:28.200 --> 1:00:31.120
<v Speaker 2>in two thousand and two was getting to the green,

1:00:31.720 --> 1:00:36.000
<v Speaker 2>and I think the difficulty of getting to the green

1:00:36.040 --> 1:00:41.120
<v Speaker 2>at beth Page has never been lower, and if you

1:00:41.200 --> 1:00:43.880
<v Speaker 2>cut the rough down it'll be very low. Where it's

1:00:43.960 --> 1:00:48.800
<v Speaker 2>not difficult is around the greens and miss greens are

1:00:49.440 --> 1:00:53.040
<v Speaker 2>are if you're close to the green, are are pretty basic,

1:00:53.520 --> 1:00:56.640
<v Speaker 2>simple up and downs, And that would be one of

1:00:56.640 --> 1:01:00.360
<v Speaker 2>my big questions about this golf course. And in terms

1:01:00.400 --> 1:01:03.960
<v Speaker 2>of doling out bogies, which what you want? I think,

1:01:04.040 --> 1:01:06.480
<v Speaker 2>like I've thought about this a lot and I'd.

1:01:06.320 --> 1:01:08.400
<v Speaker 1>Be curious your take on it.

1:01:08.520 --> 1:01:12.080
<v Speaker 2>What makes a good match play course is like the

1:01:12.160 --> 1:01:15.760
<v Speaker 2>question and where my thoughts have been around it is

1:01:15.840 --> 1:01:18.600
<v Speaker 2>I think a golf course that promotes a lot of

1:01:18.720 --> 1:01:25.200
<v Speaker 2>variance and scoring, so holes where a wide spectrum of

1:01:25.240 --> 1:01:29.040
<v Speaker 2>scores are feasible, And that would be my concern with

1:01:29.120 --> 1:01:32.920
<v Speaker 2>Bethpage is that I think we'll just see a smattering

1:01:32.960 --> 1:01:36.680
<v Speaker 2>of birdies, a lot of pars, and a handful of bogies.

1:01:37.400 --> 1:01:41.480
<v Speaker 3>It's because not much can go wrong on or around

1:01:41.520 --> 1:01:44.360
<v Speaker 3>the greens. You can get in some bunkers that are

1:01:44.400 --> 1:01:47.360
<v Speaker 3>pretty nasty and if you're short sighted then you're going

1:01:47.440 --> 1:01:51.480
<v Speaker 3>to struggle to get it close. But that's only because

1:01:51.640 --> 1:01:54.400
<v Speaker 3>of the depth of the bunker and the fact that

1:01:54.440 --> 1:01:58.400
<v Speaker 3>you're short sighted. It's not because of any contouring on

1:01:58.480 --> 1:02:02.360
<v Speaker 3>the greens that you'll be screwed in those positions. And

1:02:02.400 --> 1:02:06.000
<v Speaker 3>that's the big flaw of Bethpage Black. The greens simply

1:02:06.120 --> 1:02:08.960
<v Speaker 3>are not very interesting. And it's the part of the

1:02:09.000 --> 1:02:11.880
<v Speaker 3>course that makes you feel like or that makes you

1:02:11.960 --> 1:02:15.480
<v Speaker 3>wonder how much aw tilling Hast really had to do

1:02:15.680 --> 1:02:18.960
<v Speaker 3>with this course while it was being constructed, because if

1:02:19.000 --> 1:02:22.600
<v Speaker 3>you look at Wingfoot West, or if you look at

1:02:22.920 --> 1:02:25.920
<v Speaker 3>the lower course at Baltus Rawl or Somerset Hills, then

1:02:26.000 --> 1:02:29.840
<v Speaker 3>you know that tilling Hast has a taste for wild greens,

1:02:30.040 --> 1:02:34.800
<v Speaker 3>or at least for interesting contour on greens, and you

1:02:34.880 --> 1:02:36.960
<v Speaker 3>just don't really get any of that at beth Page.

1:02:37.040 --> 1:02:39.320
<v Speaker 3>You mentioned the second hole earlier, I think as the

1:02:39.360 --> 1:02:41.919
<v Speaker 3>start of this great stretch, and it's such a great hole,

1:02:42.360 --> 1:02:45.760
<v Speaker 3>kind of works its way around this ridge and then

1:02:45.800 --> 1:02:49.919
<v Speaker 3>it jumps up to the top of another ridge where

1:02:49.960 --> 1:02:54.000
<v Speaker 3>the green sits, and so it's this wonderful, really charismatic

1:02:54.080 --> 1:02:57.160
<v Speaker 3>looking golf hole that introduces you to the best part

1:02:57.160 --> 1:02:59.480
<v Speaker 3>of the property. But then you get up and look

1:02:59.480 --> 1:03:02.680
<v Speaker 3>at that green and it is a dead flat oval.

1:03:02.760 --> 1:03:08.080
<v Speaker 3>There's nothing going on there. And you know, other greens

1:03:08.080 --> 1:03:13.040
<v Speaker 3>at Bethpage have more to them, but that kind of

1:03:13.120 --> 1:03:16.480
<v Speaker 3>gives you an indication of what you're in for really

1:03:16.480 --> 1:03:19.320
<v Speaker 3>interesting golf holes tee to green and some greens that

1:03:19.440 --> 1:03:22.720
<v Speaker 3>are just a little bit disappointing. And yeah, I think

1:03:22.760 --> 1:03:28.960
<v Speaker 3>that is something that makes beth Page Black not hold

1:03:29.080 --> 1:03:32.440
<v Speaker 3>up quite as well for modern tournament golf in general,

1:03:32.520 --> 1:03:34.920
<v Speaker 3>not just match play golf, I don't think, but in

1:03:35.000 --> 1:03:38.880
<v Speaker 3>general modern tournament golf is maybe less compelling at beth

1:03:38.920 --> 1:03:43.520
<v Speaker 3>Page because tee to green play has become less of

1:03:43.560 --> 1:03:47.760
<v Speaker 3>a factor with technology that more and more people have

1:03:47.880 --> 1:03:50.880
<v Speaker 3>been able to master the tea to green game. And

1:03:51.040 --> 1:03:54.320
<v Speaker 3>so if you're going to get interest from a golf

1:03:54.360 --> 1:03:57.400
<v Speaker 3>course in a high level tournament, it's usually going to

1:03:57.480 --> 1:04:00.880
<v Speaker 3>come on and around the greens. Augusta National is the

1:04:00.920 --> 1:04:04.760
<v Speaker 3>perfect proof and example of this, and the Black course

1:04:04.880 --> 1:04:08.400
<v Speaker 3>just doesn't offer that right now. And so I think

1:04:08.440 --> 1:04:11.440
<v Speaker 3>that it's not just match play where that's going to

1:04:11.480 --> 1:04:15.919
<v Speaker 3>be a limiting factor for the interest that beth Page

1:04:15.920 --> 1:04:18.520
<v Speaker 3>Black can produce. I think it's pretty much any modern

1:04:18.520 --> 1:04:21.240
<v Speaker 3>tournament at beth Page is going to have this this

1:04:21.400 --> 1:04:22.280
<v Speaker 3>governor on it.

1:04:23.640 --> 1:04:27.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think the golf world and you might have

1:04:27.800 --> 1:04:32.160
<v Speaker 2>a completely different opinion has become way too infatuated with restoration.

1:04:33.600 --> 1:04:38.480
<v Speaker 2>I think restoration is important for the very very best.

1:04:38.640 --> 1:04:43.400
<v Speaker 2>Like to me, we should restore courses that are truly extraordinary.

1:04:44.560 --> 1:04:46.000
<v Speaker 1>Golf courses should.

1:04:45.760 --> 1:04:49.040
<v Speaker 3>Restore Cyper's point, which they have yeah recently.

1:04:48.800 --> 1:04:49.920
<v Speaker 1>So exactly.

1:04:50.680 --> 1:04:53.360
<v Speaker 2>I think like there are or historic courses, like if

1:04:53.400 --> 1:04:56.439
<v Speaker 2>there's and I think like Beth Page is an interesting one.

1:04:56.480 --> 1:05:01.640
<v Speaker 2>Like I think if you just left it the way

1:05:01.680 --> 1:05:05.920
<v Speaker 2>it is and just said to an architect, can you

1:05:06.000 --> 1:05:10.160
<v Speaker 2>just spruce up the greens a little right, it would

1:05:10.240 --> 1:05:14.320
<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden vault up. And I think it's

1:05:14.360 --> 1:05:17.919
<v Speaker 2>obviously rated in some publications very highly. I don't think

1:05:17.960 --> 1:05:20.960
<v Speaker 2>that highly of the golf course as a whole, Like

1:05:21.280 --> 1:05:22.120
<v Speaker 2>it's very good.

1:05:22.280 --> 1:05:24.640
<v Speaker 1>It's one of the best public golf courses you could play.

1:05:25.360 --> 1:05:27.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying any of that, but you know, it

1:05:28.560 --> 1:05:32.280
<v Speaker 2>is not for me in the upper upper echelon of

1:05:32.320 --> 1:05:34.880
<v Speaker 2>golf courses in the world. And what holds it back

1:05:34.920 --> 1:05:37.720
<v Speaker 2>to the greens is like a very simple green renovation

1:05:38.640 --> 1:05:41.960
<v Speaker 2>would take this golf course to a whole different level,

1:05:42.040 --> 1:05:44.720
<v Speaker 2>and I think it would become one of the best

1:05:45.400 --> 1:05:48.840
<v Speaker 2>major championship golf courses in the world with a simple

1:05:49.240 --> 1:05:50.280
<v Speaker 2>greens renovation.

1:05:51.240 --> 1:05:55.240
<v Speaker 3>You know, one of the most interesting renovation projects that's

1:05:55.280 --> 1:06:00.520
<v Speaker 3>happened in recent years was a Desert Forest golf club

1:06:00.800 --> 1:06:05.840
<v Speaker 3>in the Scottsdale, Arizona area. And this is pretty obscure.

1:06:05.960 --> 1:06:08.360
<v Speaker 3>If you haven't heard of this, that's not your fault.

1:06:08.360 --> 1:06:14.000
<v Speaker 3>It's a fairly low profile club, an extremely wonderful golf course.

1:06:14.160 --> 1:06:17.520
<v Speaker 3>Like I think, this is a terrific, terrific golf course

1:06:18.080 --> 1:06:21.360
<v Speaker 3>on a great piece of land, especially if you think

1:06:21.400 --> 1:06:23.800
<v Speaker 3>of most of the land that was used for golf

1:06:23.840 --> 1:06:27.200
<v Speaker 3>in Scottsdale. Desert Forest sits on this kind of rolling,

1:06:28.440 --> 1:06:31.520
<v Speaker 3>rolling plot of land that you just don't expect out

1:06:31.560 --> 1:06:35.439
<v Speaker 3>of that area. So Tee to Green Desert Forest has

1:06:35.520 --> 1:06:39.680
<v Speaker 3>always been a great golf course. It was designed in

1:06:39.720 --> 1:06:43.200
<v Speaker 3>the nineteen fifties by a guy named Red Lawrence, and

1:06:43.480 --> 1:06:46.200
<v Speaker 3>he did a great job of routing the course and

1:06:46.320 --> 1:06:49.360
<v Speaker 3>using the topography. But then he got to the greens

1:06:49.560 --> 1:06:53.800
<v Speaker 3>and they were basically the same green one through eighteen,

1:06:54.320 --> 1:06:57.480
<v Speaker 3>over and over and over. And so what the club did,

1:06:57.520 --> 1:06:59.760
<v Speaker 3>and this was really smart, is that they brought in

1:07:00.040 --> 1:07:03.880
<v Speaker 3>an architect named Dave Zincand, who has worked for Corn

1:07:03.960 --> 1:07:07.600
<v Speaker 3>Crenshaw and was around that time opening his own design business,

1:07:08.240 --> 1:07:12.680
<v Speaker 3>and said basically, give us more interesting greens. And so

1:07:12.840 --> 1:07:16.040
<v Speaker 3>zinc And went in there and did exactly that shape

1:07:16.040 --> 1:07:19.480
<v Speaker 3>these beautiful greens that kind of tie into the strategy

1:07:19.600 --> 1:07:23.080
<v Speaker 3>of the holes that was always suggested by the by

1:07:23.160 --> 1:07:26.000
<v Speaker 3>the you know, topography and the and the shape of

1:07:26.000 --> 1:07:29.000
<v Speaker 3>the holes in the landscape, but wasn't really followed through

1:07:29.080 --> 1:07:32.760
<v Speaker 3>on because the greens didn't really do anything, didn't really

1:07:32.800 --> 1:07:37.360
<v Speaker 3>demand different shots from from different angles. Well, what zinc

1:07:37.440 --> 1:07:41.640
<v Speaker 3>And did is that he took that inspiration from the

1:07:41.680 --> 1:07:45.400
<v Speaker 3>holes as they sat in the terrain and designed some

1:07:45.520 --> 1:07:49.919
<v Speaker 3>greens that just had more variety and more strategic sophistication.

1:07:50.760 --> 1:07:53.920
<v Speaker 3>And I think that kind of move at Bethpage Black

1:07:54.480 --> 1:07:59.080
<v Speaker 3>would be very very intelligent as an approach to renovation,

1:07:59.680 --> 1:08:03.480
<v Speaker 3>But it would be hard to do because it's such

1:08:03.480 --> 1:08:06.360
<v Speaker 3>a high profile golf course. There are so many people

1:08:06.440 --> 1:08:10.520
<v Speaker 3>who play and love that course as it is. It

1:08:10.520 --> 1:08:13.760
<v Speaker 3>would just be a tough sell. But I agree with

1:08:13.840 --> 1:08:16.760
<v Speaker 3>you that the potential is there. You could just look

1:08:16.840 --> 1:08:20.479
<v Speaker 3>at some of tilling Hast's other sets of greens and

1:08:20.560 --> 1:08:23.840
<v Speaker 3>you'd have a great template for what you could do

1:08:24.080 --> 1:08:27.040
<v Speaker 3>with some of those green complexes at the Black Course.

1:08:28.000 --> 1:08:30.720
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, I agree that that's what is holding to

1:08:30.800 --> 1:08:33.000
<v Speaker 3>me when I look at Bethpage Black, when I walk

1:08:33.080 --> 1:08:34.960
<v Speaker 3>that course from Tee to Green, look at the land,

1:08:35.000 --> 1:08:38.880
<v Speaker 3>look at the routing. It is a top fifty golf

1:08:38.920 --> 1:08:42.080
<v Speaker 3>course in the US. I think that's what it feels

1:08:42.120 --> 1:08:46.160
<v Speaker 3>like to me Tee to Green. But the greens and

1:08:46.200 --> 1:08:50.960
<v Speaker 3>the mowing lines are the thing that make it not

1:08:51.120 --> 1:08:53.519
<v Speaker 3>that right now, And maybe some of the bunker work

1:08:53.560 --> 1:08:56.960
<v Speaker 3>that has been done by Rhys Jones over the past

1:08:57.160 --> 1:08:59.040
<v Speaker 3>couple of decades it has been best.

1:08:59.240 --> 1:09:04.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean the restoration when he did it was transformational.

1:09:04.640 --> 1:09:07.120
<v Speaker 3>It was not a yeah, it's it's It wasn't a

1:09:07.160 --> 1:09:09.639
<v Speaker 3>restoration is yeah, it's a restart.

1:09:09.720 --> 1:09:14.800
<v Speaker 2>But at the the you know where the where the

1:09:14.840 --> 1:09:19.200
<v Speaker 2>renovation restoration world has gotten to since the since basically

1:09:19.240 --> 1:09:25.559
<v Speaker 2>two thousand is remarkably higher bar than than where it

1:09:25.680 --> 1:09:32.240
<v Speaker 2>was when that work was done. Yes, real quick, what's

1:09:32.280 --> 1:09:35.760
<v Speaker 2>one hole that you're particularly keen to watching the Ryder Cup.

1:09:37.000 --> 1:09:38.479
<v Speaker 3>Well, it's got to be in that stretch that you

1:09:38.520 --> 1:09:43.479
<v Speaker 3>mentioned earlier. Basically from three I love two as well,

1:09:43.640 --> 1:09:48.400
<v Speaker 3>but from three to six. That for me, is where

1:09:48.439 --> 1:09:53.120
<v Speaker 3>the golf course really becomes great. Everybody knows four. It's

1:09:53.160 --> 1:09:56.320
<v Speaker 3>the great hazard hole. When you see it on TV.

1:09:56.680 --> 1:09:59.920
<v Speaker 3>Just imagine it looking about ten times bigger in person.

1:10:00.520 --> 1:10:03.400
<v Speaker 3>The elevation drop from the tee to the fairway and

1:10:03.439 --> 1:10:05.920
<v Speaker 3>then the climb from the fairway up to the green

1:10:06.479 --> 1:10:10.000
<v Speaker 3>is just much much bigger than you can imagine just

1:10:10.400 --> 1:10:13.559
<v Speaker 3>looking at it on TV. But I think this single

1:10:13.680 --> 1:10:17.479
<v Speaker 3>hole that I'll be most curious about is going to

1:10:17.520 --> 1:10:22.080
<v Speaker 3>actually be six. It's a very interesting and I think

1:10:22.439 --> 1:10:27.479
<v Speaker 3>fairly short for these guys par four and the fairway

1:10:27.720 --> 1:10:30.800
<v Speaker 3>kind of has a little bit of a jog in

1:10:30.840 --> 1:10:34.880
<v Speaker 3>the landing zone where it wraps around some bunkers and

1:10:34.960 --> 1:10:39.120
<v Speaker 3>then dips down before climbing back up to the green.

1:10:39.800 --> 1:10:43.360
<v Speaker 3>And I just want to see where players position themselves

1:10:43.520 --> 1:10:46.240
<v Speaker 3>on that fairway. Are they going to hit a conservative

1:10:46.240 --> 1:10:49.559
<v Speaker 3>shot kind of between the bunkers on the higher ground,

1:10:50.040 --> 1:10:51.880
<v Speaker 3>or are they going to try to take it over

1:10:52.560 --> 1:10:56.280
<v Speaker 3>that left bunker and get down into the goalie in

1:10:56.360 --> 1:10:58.440
<v Speaker 3>front of the green. What's going to be their strategy

1:10:58.479 --> 1:11:00.640
<v Speaker 3>on that hole? They're probably youre going to head it

1:11:00.680 --> 1:11:02.760
<v Speaker 3>into the goalie. I mean you know that's probably what

1:11:02.800 --> 1:11:04.639
<v Speaker 3>they're going to do. But but I think it's a

1:11:04.720 --> 1:11:07.400
<v Speaker 3>it's a cool golfer and and I'm looking forward to

1:11:07.400 --> 1:11:09.479
<v Speaker 3>to seeing some of the strategic dynamics there.

1:11:10.760 --> 1:11:15.200
<v Speaker 2>I just got a message from producer PJ. Yes justice

1:11:15.240 --> 1:11:18.920
<v Speaker 2>for six six rules, So.

1:11:18.240 --> 1:11:20.880
<v Speaker 3>So that has a stamp of approval from from the

1:11:20.960 --> 1:11:22.560
<v Speaker 3>Long Long Island.

1:11:22.200 --> 1:11:26.840
<v Speaker 2>Guy, Happy Happy Long Island public golfer PJ for the

1:11:26.920 --> 1:11:29.960
<v Speaker 2>for the vote on six the You know, I'm actually

1:11:30.000 --> 1:11:31.680
<v Speaker 2>kind of interested. I don't I don't know if you

1:11:31.720 --> 1:11:34.080
<v Speaker 2>saw this when you're out there, what the what the

1:11:34.120 --> 1:11:37.120
<v Speaker 2>grand stands. I I think just like a cool part

1:11:37.120 --> 1:11:39.479
<v Speaker 2>of the courses ten and eleven, the back to back

1:11:39.520 --> 1:11:40.479
<v Speaker 2>part four us that.

1:11:40.479 --> 1:11:41.880
<v Speaker 3>Share that that's that's sort of like.

1:11:44.320 --> 1:11:47.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I just I love that, like kind of

1:11:47.120 --> 1:11:52.160
<v Speaker 2>like center of energy. I remember fondly watching a lot

1:11:52.160 --> 1:11:56.200
<v Speaker 2>of golf back there during the PGA, and to me,

1:11:56.400 --> 1:11:58.600
<v Speaker 2>that's that's one area that I.

1:11:58.600 --> 1:11:59.280
<v Speaker 1>Would I would.

1:11:59.400 --> 1:12:03.280
<v Speaker 2>I I'm keen to watch. And I think like if

1:12:03.320 --> 1:12:05.760
<v Speaker 2>you get a couple of groups on that hole, those

1:12:05.800 --> 1:12:07.960
<v Speaker 2>holes at the same time with all the fans, it's

1:12:08.000 --> 1:12:11.439
<v Speaker 2>going to be just like a very cool atmosphere, you know.

1:12:11.560 --> 1:12:14.840
<v Speaker 2>And I think those holes are are somewhat interesting from

1:12:14.880 --> 1:12:18.840
<v Speaker 2>t degree. They're obviously fairly penal with the amount of

1:12:18.840 --> 1:12:21.800
<v Speaker 2>bunkers that are on them, and you know it could

1:12:21.880 --> 1:12:23.840
<v Speaker 2>dule out some penalty if you get in the wrong

1:12:23.920 --> 1:12:28.720
<v Speaker 2>spot on them in the match play. But obviously then

1:12:28.760 --> 1:12:31.439
<v Speaker 2>the close will be will be electric when you get

1:12:31.439 --> 1:12:34.120
<v Speaker 2>back over the road in the in the closing couple holes,

1:12:34.160 --> 1:12:35.120
<v Speaker 2>there are such.

1:12:34.960 --> 1:12:37.760
<v Speaker 3>A great setting for yeah, close of a tournament. I

1:12:37.800 --> 1:12:41.200
<v Speaker 3>think it's going to be so intense and cool in

1:12:41.240 --> 1:12:46.320
<v Speaker 3>the Ryder Cup. Just that whole natural amphitheater around the fifteenth, sixteenth,

1:12:46.360 --> 1:12:49.040
<v Speaker 3>and seventeenth holes, and then you kind of climb up

1:12:49.080 --> 1:12:52.839
<v Speaker 3>onto a ridge and go back down into another natural

1:12:52.840 --> 1:12:56.439
<v Speaker 3>amphitheater for the eighteenth hole. It's going to be great.

1:12:56.600 --> 1:12:59.560
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, you shout it out the tenth and eleventh holes, specifically,

1:13:00.040 --> 1:13:02.280
<v Speaker 3>sitting in the grand stand behind the eleventh green would

1:13:02.280 --> 1:13:04.120
<v Speaker 3>be a great spot because you can see the t

1:13:04.320 --> 1:13:06.640
<v Speaker 3>shots on the tenth hole, you can see play on

1:13:06.680 --> 1:13:09.360
<v Speaker 3>the eleventh hole, and you can also see play on

1:13:09.400 --> 1:13:12.920
<v Speaker 3>the ninth hole because that green sits right in that

1:13:13.000 --> 1:13:16.360
<v Speaker 3>kind of collection area and the ninth hole is a

1:13:16.600 --> 1:13:20.759
<v Speaker 3>very cool dog leg left par four with some great

1:13:20.880 --> 1:13:25.080
<v Speaker 3>wavy topography in the landing zone for drives, or you

1:13:25.080 --> 1:13:27.439
<v Speaker 3>can cut the corner and get up to higher ground.

1:13:27.680 --> 1:13:30.160
<v Speaker 3>I think that's a very fun golf hole. But one

1:13:30.160 --> 1:13:32.040
<v Speaker 3>thing is specifically I wanted to mention about ten and

1:13:32.080 --> 1:13:35.120
<v Speaker 3>eleven is that those two fairways have actually been widened.

1:13:36.040 --> 1:13:40.879
<v Speaker 3>We're getting righter fairways there. Yeah, awesome. Previously, those bunkers

1:13:40.880 --> 1:13:43.080
<v Speaker 3>that you're talking about between the holes, kind of the

1:13:43.760 --> 1:13:48.880
<v Speaker 3>penal bunkers that flank those holes up and down. Previously

1:13:48.920 --> 1:13:53.000
<v Speaker 3>those were very much marooned in the rough. Recently they

1:13:53.000 --> 1:13:56.120
<v Speaker 3>have expanded the fairways out to the bunkers because they

1:13:56.120 --> 1:13:59.040
<v Speaker 3>discovered that, of course we want balls actually going in

1:13:59.080 --> 1:14:02.040
<v Speaker 3>the bunkers and not just getting not getting held up

1:14:02.080 --> 1:14:04.479
<v Speaker 3>by the rough. So I think those holes will be

1:14:05.200 --> 1:14:06.800
<v Speaker 3>will be much improved because of that work.

1:14:07.720 --> 1:14:08.160
<v Speaker 1>Awesome.

1:14:08.439 --> 1:14:11.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, look forward to chatting more about Beth Page in

1:14:11.800 --> 1:14:14.360
<v Speaker 2>the in the lead up to the Ryder Cup. But Garrett,

1:14:14.560 --> 1:14:18.439
<v Speaker 2>thank you for joining me. People can find your golf

1:14:18.439 --> 1:14:23.280
<v Speaker 2>course thoughts in greater detail on your podcast Designing Golf.

1:14:23.800 --> 1:14:27.080
<v Speaker 2>It's been fun to watch that podcast grow over the

1:14:27.080 --> 1:14:29.479
<v Speaker 2>course of the year. You're getting close to a year

1:14:29.520 --> 1:14:33.479
<v Speaker 2>into it. So congratulations on that, and we will talk

1:14:33.520 --> 1:14:37.519
<v Speaker 2>to you soon. But big thanks to you guys for listening,

1:14:37.800 --> 1:14:40.400
<v Speaker 2>and big thanks to p J Clark for editing and

1:14:40.479 --> 1:14:44.120
<v Speaker 2>producing this podcast. We'll be back next week. I don't

1:14:44.120 --> 1:14:46.800
<v Speaker 2>know what we're gonna do next week yet. I kind

1:14:46.800 --> 1:14:50.400
<v Speaker 2>of wanted to zig probably from Ryder Cup, but we may.

1:14:50.760 --> 1:14:53.439
<v Speaker 2>We may zag right back into that Ryder Cup traffic

1:14:54.360 --> 1:14:56.960
<v Speaker 2>and then we'll be back, of course the following week

1:14:57.000 --> 1:15:00.080
<v Speaker 2>with our Ryder Cup preview and on the grounds there.

1:15:00.080 --> 1:15:01.479
<v Speaker 1>But we'll be back.

1:15:01.680 --> 1:15:05.439
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for listening, and I hope you guys enjoyed the

1:15:05.479 --> 1:15:07.240
<v Speaker 2>weekend of golf at the Walker Cup