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Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When

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Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

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Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in a fried.

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Speaker 2: Egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg, Frida egg, frid

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Speaker 2: egg egg, Frida egg brid egg Lie, I'm about ready

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Speaker 2: to run off of the hump. Welcome back to the

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Speaker 2: Friday Golf Podcast. I am your host, Andy Johnson, and

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Speaker 2: I am fresh off a wonderful week at weekend at

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Speaker 2: Cyprus Point. Doesn't get much better than the Walker Cup there.

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Speaker 2: Uh this year, it was just really cool to see,

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Speaker 2: uh the event happen. I guess has uh you know,

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Speaker 2: I think he'll probably be the only, uh'd be the

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Speaker 2: only live golf.

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Speaker 1: Event that I attend at Cyper's Point in my life.

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Speaker 2: So it was really cool to see uh it there

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Speaker 2: meet a ton of people. You know, it's just a

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Speaker 2: lot different than your normal golf event in the sense

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Speaker 2: of how the crowd interaction with with you know, media obviously,

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Speaker 2: but the players and you know, no ropes.

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Speaker 1: It was super fun. It was a great week.

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Speaker 2: We'll get into that more on this podcast. I'm bringing

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Speaker 2: in Garrett Morrison, who is the head of our golf

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Speaker 2: architecture content here at at Friday Golf, and we're going

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Speaker 2: to talk about the Walker Cup is Cyperus Point as

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Speaker 2: well as the Ryder Coup venue Beth Page at the

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Speaker 2: back end of this. So super exciting to chat about

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Speaker 2: this with Garrett, who I'm sure has some thoughts from

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Speaker 2: watching on TV this weekend. But it was a wonderful

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Speaker 2: time out there and very very thankful that the the

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Speaker 2: USGA and Csiper Point had this event, the Walker Cup.

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Speaker 2: I think, you know, it's funny, it's like a weird

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Speaker 2: spot and we'll get more into this, but a weird

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Speaker 2: spot in the sense it's like not one of their

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Speaker 2: marquee events in terms of like how they've commercialized the

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Speaker 2: Men's and Women's US Open, but in terms of quality

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Speaker 2: of venue and players an event in format, it's about

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Speaker 2: as good as it gets in all of golf. So

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Speaker 2: I'm curious. I'm you know, I'm just very interested to

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Speaker 2: see where the Walker Cup goes the next two decades.

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Speaker 2: But I'll tell you what, for more than three decades,

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Speaker 2: you at MBUSA dot com. Big thanks to Mercedes Benz

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Speaker 2: in their partnership here this year. Let's get to Garrett

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Speaker 2: Morrison now and let's talk Cyper's Point and Bethpage. Garrett,

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Speaker 2: welcome out. How are you.

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Speaker 3: I'm doing great? How are you doing? Andy?

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Speaker 1: I'm doing all right.

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm kind of like coming down from a very

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Speaker 2: packed weekend. It was I think you would you would

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Speaker 2: have loved it. I don't want to rub it in

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Speaker 2: here that you weren't there.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, it was just like how did that happen?

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Speaker 2: The audience and the crowds there, It was just like

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Speaker 2: a felt like almost like a festival of people that

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Speaker 2: love golf.

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Speaker 1: So in a way for sure, Yeah, in a.

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Speaker 2: Way, I'm like just like extremely like burnt out, and

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Speaker 2: I feel like toast from conversating with with so many

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Speaker 2: people about golf from like sun up to sundown, uh

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Speaker 2: and late end of the night, all weekend long, but

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Speaker 2: also on a high of really, I you know, in

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Speaker 2: terms of cool golf events that I will attend in

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Speaker 2: my life, that is that is up there, and obviously

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Speaker 2: this year's Masters is up there, but that event just

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Speaker 2: from the hole where it was being played, they got

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Speaker 2: absolutely stunning weather and in Cypress Point. Just spending three

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Speaker 2: three straight days on Cypress Point was just such a

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Speaker 2: pleasure and treat How did you? How were you? How

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Speaker 2: did you feel about it? With the with television and

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Speaker 2: watching from home?

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Speaker 3: I thought it went well. I thought the course showed

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Speaker 3: well on TV. I wasn't exactly sure whether it would

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Speaker 3: really come through on TV as well as it did,

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Speaker 3: but they did a pretty good job of portraying what

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Speaker 3: the course looks like. And I think also that if

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Speaker 3: you compare the way the course popped on TV for

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Speaker 3: this Walker Cup to how it looked at the old

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Speaker 3: Crosby's and at the nineteen eighty one Walker Cup, I

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Speaker 3: think you gain an appreciation for how well the work

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Speaker 3: that Corn Crenshaw have done in the past several years

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Speaker 3: at Cyprus Point has gone. The course looks a lot

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Speaker 3: better now. The work that they've done in the dunes,

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Speaker 3: kind of stripping away some of that vegetation and exposing

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Speaker 3: the white sand, has just been huge for the esthetics

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Speaker 3: of the golf course. And so I think that's one

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Speaker 3: thing that came through really clearly on TV. The bunker

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Speaker 3: work looks great, the dunes look great, The course pops

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Speaker 3: on TV, and so I was really glad to see that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, especially with the weather that they got. I will say,

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Speaker 2: you know, a lot of people that I talked to

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Speaker 2: that hadn't been out there in a while mentioned how

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Speaker 2: good the dunes look compared to the last time they

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Speaker 2: were out there, and massive difference an area that they've

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Speaker 2: really focused on in recent years.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's a big difference from what I saw

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Speaker 3: when I lived in the area. I lived basically right

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Speaker 3: right there for a while and used to walk by

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Speaker 3: the golf course look at the golf course all the time,

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Speaker 3: and the way the dunes look now is way different

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Speaker 3: from how they looked ten years ago. So big kudos

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Speaker 3: to the club, Big kudos to the ground staff that

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Speaker 3: has kind of taken care of that. I think they've

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Speaker 3: they've been working with Earth Sculpture as the contractor. They've

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Speaker 3: done excellent, excellent work there kind of maintaining that native environment.

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Speaker 3: It just looks great.

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Speaker 2: On Saturday night, you know, I was out there all

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Speaker 2: day Saturday. What I did was follow two matches and

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Speaker 2: like one in the morning, one through eighteen, one in

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Speaker 2: the afternoon one through eighteen, and you know, then kind

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Speaker 2: of sat around and hung out with some people all

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Speaker 2: night on Saturday, and then all of a sudden the

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Speaker 2: replay came on. And what was amazing to me is

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Speaker 2: like the group there was a fairly large group of

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Speaker 2: us just then became entranced by the replay. There's all

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Speaker 2: people that had been there that day, and then watching

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Speaker 2: it on TV was truly stunning. I thought the thing

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Speaker 2: that worked really well. And I think I can just

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Speaker 2: imagine just some passer by on Golf Channel that maybe

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Speaker 2: maybe didn't know this event was happening, maybe didn't know

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Speaker 2: a ton about Cyprus Point the drone shots of the

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Speaker 2: Peninsula of six seventeen were unbelievable, and I was, you know,

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Speaker 2: I was.

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Speaker 3: Out there by Golf Channel. I mean they did their

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Speaker 3: thing there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they did.

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Speaker 2: It was they had They had one of the new

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Speaker 2: new drones too. You know obviously somebody I fly drone occasionally,

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Speaker 2: and you know it was I was. I was looking

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Speaker 2: at it. I had, I was close enough to see it.

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Speaker 2: I was like I was a brand new drone and

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Speaker 2: it showed like the the it was so crisp, and

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Speaker 2: I just like I found myself when I was out there,

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Speaker 2: but more so almost on TV with those drone shots.

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Speaker 2: You know, this is a golf course. I've looked at

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Speaker 2: a million times in my life. When I'm watching this

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Speaker 2: television product, even you know myself, I'm just I just

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Speaker 2: couldn't believe.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe that.

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Speaker 2: The course exists like that, that the golf course is

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Speaker 2: on that land, and how it's just like this coastline

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Speaker 2: just seemingly when you see it from up high, appears

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Speaker 2: just perfect for golf.

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Speaker 3: That's the thing about Cypress Point is that it does

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Speaker 3: seem to occupy this realm of fantasy, almost like if

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Speaker 3: you were to invent a piece of land for a

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Speaker 3: spectacular golf course. This would almost be what you'd invent.

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Speaker 3: You'd have some forest holes, you'd have some dunes holes,

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Speaker 3: and you'd have spectacular cliffs, and you'd say, it's unrealistic

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Speaker 3: that you could find a piece of land that has

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Speaker 3: all those features, and you know, puts the designer in

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Speaker 3: a situation where he or she can use all of

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Speaker 3: those features. But that's exactly what happened with Cypress Point

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Speaker 3: and Alistair Mackenzie, and it's part of what makes it

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Speaker 3: such a remarkable golf course. Yeah. I mean, the drone

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Speaker 3: shots were awesome in and of them. They were beautiful

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Speaker 3: to look at, but there was also a really good

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Speaker 3: directing and production choice that Golf Channel made, which was

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Speaker 3: when the matches got to the fourteenth green and were

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Speaker 3: transitioning away from the fourteenth green, Golf Channel made a

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Speaker 3: choice to basically stop the flow of their coverage and

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Speaker 3: have that drone follow the group from the fourteenth green

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Speaker 3: to the fifteenth tee. The announcers went silent and just

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Speaker 3: allowed the imagery to do the work. And it was

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Speaker 3: one of the few moments, aside from maybe when somebody

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Speaker 3: wins the Masters, like Tiger Rory wins the Masters, and

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Speaker 3: they have that wonderful walk that everybody loves from the

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Speaker 3: eighteenth green to the scoring area. One of the few

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Speaker 3: moments in a golf telecast that I can remember when

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Speaker 3: everything was silent for a minute and you were just

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Speaker 3: being asked to look at the golf course and to

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Speaker 3: observe how incredible that walk from the fourteenth green to

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Speaker 3: the fifteenth tea is. And obviously there is something special

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Speaker 3: about that green to tea transition, something unique about it

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Speaker 3: that can't be replicated by telecasts of other tournaments. But

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Speaker 3: it made me think about how this could be a

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Speaker 3: way that a tournament broadcast could show a golf course

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Speaker 3: to an audience. Just take a break every once in

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Speaker 3: a while and have a drone kind of follow the

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Speaker 3: route of the golf course and show some of the features,

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Speaker 3: because it really gives you a vivid sense of what

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Speaker 3: the course is like. And it's something that they can

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Speaker 3: do now because they can incorporate these these drones into

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Speaker 3: their array of cameras. So I just wish that we

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Speaker 3: saw this more, We had more of these kind of

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Speaker 3: moments of reflection when we aren't seeing golf shots, we

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Speaker 3: aren't going from putt to putt to put to putt,

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Speaker 3: we just stop for a moment and familiarize ourselves with

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Speaker 3: with some golf hols. I think that would be something

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Speaker 3: really cool that I don't think they're gonna do because

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Speaker 3: I mean Cyper's point is is a very particular course

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Speaker 3: and maybe they won't be inspired to do this at

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Speaker 3: other courses. I just liked it and I thought, you know,

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Speaker 3: I wish I saw more of this.

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Speaker 2: You know, obviously this would work some places, maybe not others.

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Speaker 2: I don't think, you know, TPC Craig Ranch is going

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Speaker 2: to be able to do that kind of move.

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Speaker 3: Who knows after the after the renovation by by House.

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Speaker 1: Sutton, you know, Lanny Lanny, Lanny.

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Speaker 3: Watkins us right, it's not how Sutton. Sorry, don't mean

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Speaker 3: to defame hol Sutton. Yeah, yeah, yeah, after after the

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Speaker 3: Lanny renovation, might be might be worthy of it.

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Speaker 2: But I do think there are places that this could

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Speaker 2: work really well, at say the Masters, where it could

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Speaker 2: be neat, especially depending on the circumstance.

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Speaker 3: I mean Nick has done something like you know, yeah.

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Speaker 1: But this could work really well.

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Speaker 2: And I think it where it would work really well

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Speaker 2: is where you have a situation where a team has

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Speaker 2: kind of or a couple players have have got Walker

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Speaker 2: Cup Brain team, a couple players have separated themselves when

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Speaker 2: we get these great kind of showdowns, and it's not

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Speaker 2: like we need to see the guy that's in fifth

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Speaker 2: place make a birdie to pull himself within six with

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Speaker 2: four to go, you know, but where you can show

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Speaker 2: a really nice transition of maybe twelve to thirteen, or

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Speaker 2: probably the best one out there would be even thirteen

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Speaker 2: to fourteen or eleven to twelve. And I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: holding on those shots allowing the audience to get a

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Speaker 2: feel of the tournament. And what it does is it

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Speaker 2: kind of simulates how you feel at the event when

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Speaker 2: you're watching, and that that kind of tension that exists

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Speaker 2: when you're in person watching these shots unfold, right, There's

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Speaker 2: like a silent tension that comes in as players go

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Speaker 2: through their routines and get ready to hit the shot.

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Speaker 2: You feel that anxiety of the moment. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's something with with golf telecasts. And this is something

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Speaker 2: you just hit on that I had never really thought of,

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Speaker 2: But that's something in golf telecasts because of and listen,

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Speaker 2: I get like, show more shots, show more shots, show

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Speaker 2: more shots, but there is something to allowing somebody to

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Speaker 2: sit in the tension that has been missed a lot

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Speaker 2: of times in particularly big moments are over big shots.

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Speaker 3: It's just proper storytelling. Yes, it does convey the feeling

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Speaker 3: of being at a tournament. When you're at a tournament,

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Speaker 3: there are a lot of silent moments. When you're playing golf,

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Speaker 3: there are a lot of silent moments, and so it

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Speaker 3: would give the feeling of an actual golf round or

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Speaker 3: watching an actual golf round. But more than that, proper

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Speaker 3: storytelling involves an ebb and flow of tension. Sometimes there

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Speaker 3: is slackening tension. Sometimes there needs to be a moment

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Speaker 3: of silence or kind of low activity. And Cyprus Point

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Speaker 3: embodies this principle of storytelling itself because within that golf

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Speaker 3: course you have moments of low tension and moments of

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Speaker 3: high tension and high excitement. So mackenzie was aware of

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Speaker 3: this storytelling principle and incorporated it into his ideas for

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Speaker 3: Cyprus Point. And I wish, yeah, I wish tournament telecasts

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Speaker 3: would kind of go to school on those longstanding principles

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Speaker 3: of storytelling and say, yeah, we don't need to be

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Speaker 3: jumping from to golf shot. I think when golf fans

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Speaker 3: say that they want to see a lot of golf shots,

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Speaker 3: that they're not actually saying we want as many golf

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Speaker 3: shots as possible to be packed into as little time

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Speaker 3: as possible. I think they're saying, we want fewer commercials,

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Speaker 3: and we want fewer CEO interviews. We want less irrelevant stuff,

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Speaker 3: we want less non golf stuff. We want the golf

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Speaker 3: to be the star. But to make the golf the star,

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Speaker 3: it's not just about showing a lot of golf shots.

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Speaker 3: It's also about having these moments of reflection where you

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Speaker 3: can familiarize yourself with the venue, the golf course, the design,

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Speaker 3: and the atmosphere of a golf tournament. And yeah, I

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Speaker 3: crave that kind of stuff. I would I would definitely

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Speaker 3: like fewer golf shots in most tournament telecasts and more more,

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Speaker 3: you know, focus on telling the story of a golf tournament.

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Speaker 3: Be selective, be smart about what you're showing. I don't.

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Speaker 3: It's it's asking for a lot because I know they

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Speaker 3: need to include the commercials that they include, they'd have

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Speaker 3: these sponsor obligations, et cetera. But this is just what

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Speaker 3: I would want as a viewer and watching this Walker

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Speaker 3: Cup reminded me of that, because I didn't feel like

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Speaker 3: I was being beaten down by a commercial load or

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Speaker 3: that there were all these kind of you know, corporate

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Speaker 3: entities that needed to be serviced during the telecast. It

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Speaker 3: was much more about the golf and I really appreciated that.

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Speaker 3: And of course when you're at a place like Cyprus Point,

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Speaker 3: it becomes a kind of religious experience to watch golf

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Speaker 3: in this way.

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Speaker 2: I yeah. To me, like an area that they never show,

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Speaker 2: right is like you see players hit fundamentally tournament changing

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Speaker 2: shot on Sunday, and when that happens, they have a

289
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Speaker 2: walk up to the green from usually an approach shot,

290
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Speaker 2: and we always cut away there and that walk, I

291
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Speaker 2: think is a fascinating one. This kind of lies with

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Speaker 2: what you're saying, especially especially in the case of if

293
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Speaker 2: it's two players in the same group duking it out,

294
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Speaker 2: as you often get, but you get a player walking

295
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Speaker 2: up to the green and that whole moment of will

296
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Speaker 2: will they cash this? In that tension of it them

297
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Speaker 2: acknowledging and dealing with a crowd that's going to be

298
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Speaker 2: very supportive in that situation. These are all like things

299
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Speaker 2: that I when I go to tournaments, you like kind

300
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Speaker 2: of watch and feel I think like for me, one

301
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Speaker 2: of the things I took away from this week is

302
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Speaker 2: like just you know, match play obviously is a phenomenal

303
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Speaker 2: thing to watch, but just to watch the ebb and

304
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Speaker 2: flow and the the in between shots mannerisms of players,

305
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Speaker 2: particularly young players, that some of them show their emotions

306
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Speaker 2: a little bit more than you get on PGA Tour

307
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Speaker 2: because they're younger, and you know, they're feeling more things

308
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Speaker 2: and they haven't.

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Speaker 1: Things as much.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like it was standardized, it's less standardized golf.

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Speaker 1: You know.

312
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Speaker 2: It was fascinating to watch how like these you could

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Speaker 2: see players tempos and pre shot routines, like kind of

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Speaker 2: differing from shot to shot based off of circumstances. And

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Speaker 2: and I think that's something with the with the PGA Tour,

316
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:26,920
Speaker 2: you start to like.

317
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Speaker 1: You you get blind or are.

318
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Speaker 2: Almost oblivious to because these guys get just so good

319
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Speaker 2: at refining their process and can you know, like you

320
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 2: you talk to these sports psychologists and and and tour

321
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,439
Speaker 2: or that and coaches, and they talk about how you know,

322
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Speaker 2: you just try these guys practice routines now where they

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Speaker 2: practice how they get into a ball and you're watching

324
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Speaker 2: these matches and depending on the moments, like you see

325
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Speaker 2: guys just going faster or slower, and it's a it's

326
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Speaker 2: one of those, you know. And I know we're talking

327
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Speaker 2: really nitty gritty here about golf, but I think it's

328
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Speaker 2: one of the things that makes the game really beautiful.

329
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Speaker 2: And it's so hard to convey through a TV. But

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Speaker 2: I think one of the I guess things that I

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Speaker 2: took away and I think you hit on this a

332
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Speaker 2: little bit, is just how pure of a golf event

333
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Speaker 2: this is. This is this is golf, you know, the

334
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:33,880
Speaker 2: walker cups like you know, golf four oh one, and

335
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,680
Speaker 2: the wonderful nature. And I don't you know, some of

336
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 2: the broadcasts did not live up to this. I think

337
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 2: the the some of the broadcast crew, you know, just

338
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 2: frankly didn't do their homework or But anyways, this, this

339
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,360
Speaker 2: high level of golf is what we should be conveying

340
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Speaker 2: more often because it is.

341
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Speaker 1: Not dumbing down.

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00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 2: Golf provide such a sophisticated and wonderful product that people

343
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,679
Speaker 2: are just going to love. And when people love stuff,

344
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Speaker 2: other people become interested in it.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, people, people are attracted to passion. They want

346
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 3: to find out more about it, and yeah, it's it's

347
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,120
Speaker 3: a kind of an indication of where we are that

348
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 3: that feels so rare in professional golf these days, that

349
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,080
Speaker 3: the focus so rarely seems to be on a passion

350
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Speaker 3: for golf. But there's really no you know, no, there's

351
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 3: no financial reason for the Walker Cup. Who exists exist?

352
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 3: I think I think it exists for for the love

353
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,400
Speaker 3: of the game primarily, you know, yeah, you know, it's

354
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Speaker 3: not it's not completely altruistic or anything. It's certainly people

355
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Speaker 3: paid to be on site, and you know, it's a

356
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Speaker 3: good it's probably a good branding exercise for the USGA,

357
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,360
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. But at the core of it,

358
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Speaker 3: the main reason that it exists is the love of

359
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 3: the game. And that's that's always something that's fun to

360
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 3: be part of and inspirational to be part of. So

361
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 3: you were Andy, you were actually on site here. We've

362
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,360
Speaker 3: we've talked a bit about the about the broadcast experience,

363
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 3: the at home experience. I'm really curious about some of

364
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,719
Speaker 3: your some of your on site observations. Was there anything

365
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 3: new that you found out about the golf course seeing

366
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 3: these guys, these guys play it. Yeah, I thought it.

367
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Speaker 3: I thought it held up well. I mean I expected

368
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 3: I expected these guys to overwhelm certain holes like thirteen

369
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:40,199
Speaker 3: for instance. You know, like thirteen is somewhat defenseless to

370
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Speaker 3: a degree. But I was actually pretty pleased to see

371
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,159
Speaker 3: that the golf course was pushing back a bit on

372
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Speaker 3: certain holes.

373
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Speaker 2: I kind of walked away with I think that this

374
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Speaker 2: event more pushed like the anybody that watched this event.

375
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,159
Speaker 2: We need a ball roll back, We need just a

376
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 2: general equipment roll back would be.

377
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Speaker 1: By general thought.

378
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,400
Speaker 2: Many of the hazards of Cyprus point we're just being

379
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 2: bypassed by just hitting it over them. I was watching

380
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 2: the Nile Shields done again Jacob Midlesky match on Saturday afternoon.

381
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 2: Midleski he really moves the ball, and you know on twelve,

382
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,919
Speaker 2: you know part four and anybody that's played there like

383
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 2: that right side is just sneaky. It just eats golf balls.

384
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 2: It's a really it's kind of a tricky t shot.

385
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 2: You just feel like you can hit it right and

386
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:54,959
Speaker 2: cover this like sandy area. But it just seemingly like

387
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 2: if you are if you don't play pretty conservative about

388
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 2: that tea, that right side will just swallow off balls.

389
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 2: And on Saturday, Midleski just gets up. You could tell

390
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 2: he's gonna put a little extra into this one, and

391
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 2: he just hits it over everything and he's left with

392
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 2: like fifty sixty yards into that green and it's like, oh, well,

393
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: I guess it's pretty simple when you can do that,

394
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 2: And I think like that would be the thing to

395
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 2: be that uh, you know, as great as as it

396
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 2: was to watch the golf out there, there wasn't much wind,

397
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 2: and I don't think the golf course has a lot

398
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 2: of strategy at sixty six hundred yards with how far.

399
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: These guys hit the ball.

400
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 2: There were not decisions being made on any part five,

401
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 2: whether they were long part fours or part fives, because

402
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 2: they converted them must.

403
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 3: Unless it was should I pull my fifty six or

404
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 3: my sixty?

405
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you watch these, you watch like a great

406
00:24:55,000 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 2: hole like like five where you know it, And I think, like,

407
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 2: this is the point of the rollback is, you know.

408
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 2: I don't think I'm necessarily a short hitter. I'm I'm

409
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 2: I would be short by PGA Tour standards, but I

410
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 2: think about the way I play five and I have

411
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 2: to kind of like bend it around a cross bunker

412
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 2: that cuts in and I have to hit I have

413
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 2: to get on that tee and I got to hit

414
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 2: a draw on on that hole. And if I could

415
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 2: hit a draw, it's such a fun t shot because

416
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,679
Speaker 2: it kind of banks around this bunker that cuts in

417
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 2: from the left on a diagonal.

418
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're.

419
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 2: Watching these kids just all just hit it right over

420
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 2: the bunker and they end up down in the valley.

421
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 2: And then they had got you know, a relatively short

422
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 2: iron like eight irons and such into the into the green.

423
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 2: That's really cool. It's up on a ridge. But when

424
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,959
Speaker 2: you're hitting an eight iron in it's just it's just

425
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:52,120
Speaker 2: mutes so much of the you know, interest of that.

426
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 2: And and there was no thoughts of any sorts of

427
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 2: layup on that hole. You know, I didn't want is.

428
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 3: So interesting there too. Yeah, that's the problem. It's such

429
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 3: a nuanced layup on that par five because you can

430
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 3: kind of be close to the cross bunkers, you know,

431
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 3: get just over the cross bunkers and be up high,

432
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 3: or if you go farther past the cross bunkers, you'll

433
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 3: be closer to the green, but you'll be down in

434
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 3: this gully, and so there are a number of different

435
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 3: options on how to play that layup. There's also kind

436
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 3: of right and left options as well, and just for

437
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 3: that to be bypassed entirely and to have the whole

438
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 3: play as a part four is a bummer.

439
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

440
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 2: And it's like even more so like a whole like two,

441
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:40,679
Speaker 2: which is a longer par five. It was just everybody's

442
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 2: going for the green, even whether you were in position

443
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 2: or out of position. And then that layup there's some

444
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 2: interesting bunkers in the layup area, but it didn't matter

445
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 2: because they're just hitting it past it. So I think

446
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 2: like one of the things for me was was just

447
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 2: and I think there was it was very intentional with

448
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 2: Cyprus Point. They want to say, we did not build

449
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 2: any bactees for this event. You're coming and you're playing

450
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 2: the golf course as is. And one of the things

451
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 2: that happened because they did that was it illuminated the

452
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 2: massive distance issue in the sport of golf, where you know,

453
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 2: there that stretch of holes really like eleven Cyper's Point,

454
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 2: you know it punched back into places, but holes eleven, twelve,

455
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 2: thirteen are very challenging, is a very challenge of really

456
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 2: eleven through fourteen, it's a very challenging stretch of holes

457
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 2: out there. But you know, eleven, they're hitting short irons

458
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: into it's a you know, maybe even wedges into it's

459
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 2: a four hundred and seventy yard part four they you know, twelve,

460
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 2: they're hitting little flip ledges into thirteen's flip ledge. And

461
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 2: then fourteen because of the trees, forced them to hit,

462
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 2: you know, a shot of consequence in terms of like

463
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 2: an eight iron into a green that pels in all ways.

464
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 2: But you know, those that stretch of golf. You know,

465
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: outside of sixteen, there was no spot on the golf

466
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 2: course that had these like huge moments of consequence, and

467
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 2: that's because they were hitting such short clubs into them.

468
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess I had low expectations for how Cypress

469
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 3: Point would hold up in this tournament because I'm aware

470
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,360
Speaker 3: of how far these guys hit the ball, and I'm

471
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 3: also aware of the dimensions of cypress Point, which are

472
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 3: more suited to a player like me than they are

473
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 3: to Jackson coyven. So I was at least pleased to see,

474
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 3: at least from home, that there were challenging shots out

475
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 3: there that the greens were giving these guys fits in

476
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 3: some places, and if they missed in the wrong place,

477
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 3: they ended up in these native areas that had a

478
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 3: lot of unpredictability. The dunesy areas at Cypress we talked

479
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 3: about earlier how they've been cleared out recently, and I

480
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 3: think that that has enhanced the chanciness of them. There's

481
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 3: a little bit of Pinehurst there where sometimes you can

482
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,239
Speaker 3: end up in a patch of ice plant, or you

483
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 3: can end up in some weird native grasses, or you

484
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 3: can just get a weird beachy lye in the sand,

485
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 3: and you're in a lot of trouble. You can't you

486
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 3: can't properly get the club on the ball. Then the

487
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 3: cypress trees themselves if you if you miss on fourteen

488
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 3: or on eighteen. Cypress trees are not a fun type

489
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 3: of tree to hit a golf ball out of.

490
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: You know, they're worry about you got worry about them

491
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 1: getting stuck.

492
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 3: You got yeah, well you got to worry about injury. Probably.

493
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,719
Speaker 3: There are all these like low branches and just you know,

494
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 3: gnarrowly twisted sort of forms that again provide unpredictability. And

495
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 3: so I liked seeing some of that. I liked that

496
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 3: the course was seeming to provide at least some interesting

497
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 3: scenarios for these guys. But if you look at the

498
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 3: design intent of especially the bunkering at Cyprus Point, which

499
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 3: bunkers Mackenzie really meant to factor into t shots, then

500
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 3: you can see that those have have clearly become irrelevant

501
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,239
Speaker 3: for players of this kind. And really the bunkers that

502
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 3: are affecting their decision making off the tee are often

503
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 3: bunkers that were meant to guard against second shots, and

504
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 3: so you know, things have just gotten ridiculous and out

505
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 3: of control.

506
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 2: Obviously, the uh I will say, like one of the

507
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 2: things that I didn't you know, I think gets lost

508
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 2: because of the land and the setting of Cyber's Point

509
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 2: that showed out great was just how good the greens

510
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 2: are and how interesting the greens at Cyper's Point are.

511
00:30:58,520 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they get.

512
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 2: Total overshadowed by everything else it has. You rarely hear

513
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 2: people say, you know, Cyper's Point, that's a great set

514
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 2: of greens, but they they really are a spectacular set

515
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 2: of greens that have a lot of variety. You know,

516
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 2: they have some some wild greens. One that kind of

517
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 2: just kept catching my eye when I walked by it

518
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: that you know, I never had given too much thought

519
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 2: to was like the tenth green, a hole in the

520
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 2: middle of the routing that you know, doesn't get talked

521
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 2: about it a lot, But then you look at that green.

522
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: You could just sit there and stare at it, you know.

523
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 2: And and and then they have just some greens that

524
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 2: rely on tilt that are really really fantastic greens, and

525
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 2: especially coupled with the firmness that they were able to

526
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 2: get because obviously, you know, we got rain today, which

527
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 2: was very shocking in September, but there hasn't been rain

528
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 2: since since April, so it just provided an unbelievable opportunity

529
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 2: to present a really firm surface that really rewarded great

530
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 2: strikes in great shots.

531
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 3: It's good that it was firm. It's not always a

532
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 3: guarantee on the Monterey Peninsula.

533
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 2: Oh and in summer, I think it's got It had

534
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: very little chance of not being firm.

535
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 3: End of summer is yeah, definitely the best time. And yeah,

536
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 3: I always kind of wonder what it would be like

537
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 3: to have a big tournament at Pebble Beach in August

538
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 3: or September. I think that would be a very different

539
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 3: kind of golf course than the one that we see

540
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 3: in that we see in February or even June for

541
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 3: the US Open.

542
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, was condition from the Pebble Beach company about how

543
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 2: they just need to convince the usj to move the

544
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 2: US Open to September.

545
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's that's kind of what we're relying on with,

546
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 3: you know, a US Open at Pebble Beach every five

547
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 3: years for the next fifty years. But in any case,

548
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 3: back to SIPs Uh, the the greens are are incredible,

549
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 3: partly because they are original. I mean, those greens have

550
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 3: not been rebuilt. They don't have the you know, the

551
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 3: precision are underneath them. These are original push up alistair

552
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 3: Mackenzie greens. And part of what that means is that

553
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 3: a lot of them are a lot more tilted than

554
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 3: any modern architect would build the fourth Green for instance.

555
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 3: You know, you just wouldn't make a to the speeds exactly.

556
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's it is pushing it. You know,

557
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 3: those greens were obviously built to stimp at far far

558
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 3: slower rates than are expected now out of an elite

559
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 3: golf course. But the result is when when you bring

560
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 3: in some of the most talented golfers in the world.

561
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 3: You can turn up the speeds a little bit on

562
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 3: these greens and and they they push back quite a bit.

563
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 3: So yeah, that was always good to see. One small

564
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 3: thing that I was curious about, Andy, because we didn't

565
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 3: see this much on the telecast. But it's just like

566
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,280
Speaker 3: a really particular curiosity I have about one hole at Cyprus,

567
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 3: and that's the eighth hole. Part of what makes the

568
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 3: design of the eighth hole really interesting is that it's

569
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 3: a split level fairway. So the fairway kind of sits

570
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 3: on a diagonal in relation to the tea, and a

571
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 3: dune ridge runs diagonally across the tee shot, and the

572
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,479
Speaker 3: part of the fairway that is closest to the tee

573
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 3: is high up, and then the rest of the fairway

574
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 3: is low and you're hitting an approach into a tremendously

575
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 3: elevated and very severely contoured green, and so being up

576
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 3: on that higher portion of the fairway is a big advantage.

577
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 3: But in order to get there, you really have to

578
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 3: challenge that dune ridge and trust your shot because it

579
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,800
Speaker 3: is completely blind to that portion of the fairway hitting

580
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 3: over the dunes. It's also like a pretty narrow section

581
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 3: of the fairway, so it's hard to even hold. But

582
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 3: I was wondering if you saw any any shots that

583
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 3: ended up on that higher portion of the fairway. Is

584
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 3: that even Oh is that something that they were looking

585
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 3: to do.

586
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 2: I think they were trying to And then you saw

587
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 2: like the the part of that, you know, is you

588
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 2: want to get up on that ridge and the worst place,

589
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 2: maybe maybe the worst miss outside of the ocean at

590
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 2: Cyprus Point is missing right on eight is off the tee.

591
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: Is it is effectively you are.

592
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 2: Not kicked out, Yeah, and you're just hoping you can

593
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,439
Speaker 2: get the ball to the fairway from where you from

594
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 2: that spot.

595
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:49,479
Speaker 1: So I saw some.

596
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 2: Players do that, and then I saw a good number

597
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 2: of players miss right into that.

598
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: I think a lot of players were.

599
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 2: Content to be very very conservative on that whole, and

600
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 2: they just were going to take the air one hundred

601
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 2: and fifty yard shot uphill into the green and just

602
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,479
Speaker 2: not mess around with that and not do something silly, knowing, hey,

603
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 2: I can hit one of these shots in there close.

604
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: I think what would have been really interesting is, you know,

605
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 2: and enhance the tournament.

606
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: You know.

607
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 2: One of the big things that it was missing was

608
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 2: just breeze if we could have gotten a good breeze

609
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: and eight was all sudden playing into the wind, that shot,

610
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,399
Speaker 2: that very conservative t shot is a lot less appetizing

611
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 2: when you're hitting one hundred and fifty yards into into

612
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 2: like a twenty mile an hour wind. Up fifty you

613
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 2: know what plays up like ten to fifteen yards. You know,

614
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 2: when if you got these guys all a sudden having

615
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 2: to hit seven's and six irons into that green instead

616
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 2: of nines or pitching wedges, they I think that they

617
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 2: would have wanted to challenge it even more. Okay, Yeah,

618
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 2: so that you know, the wind was the one thing

619
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,919
Speaker 2: that just didn't show up, and I think like that's

620
00:36:57,960 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 2: the one thing that I wish we would have seen,

621
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 2: because particularly, you know, your young players, you tend to

622
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 2: see them struggle a little bit more in the wind,

623
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 2: and then the course would have presented probably a lot

624
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 2: more teeth. But you know, one of my one of

625
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 2: my other big takeaways was just I don't think the

626
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 2: recipe for golf is that hard.

627
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: To me.

628
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 2: Team match play at great golf courses is a pretty

629
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 2: unbeatable recipe. And you know, at this point, the only real,

630
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 2: you know, consistent version of of this is at the

631
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:37,959
Speaker 2: Walker Cup or the Curtis Cup.

632
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, because the writers kind of television goes to

633
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 3: bad golf courses for the most part.

634
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 2: But but this is this was a thing is like

635
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 2: and and these events and and I know like if

636
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 2: you tried to if you tried to scale this out,

637
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 2: you'd lose some of the luster of it. But these

638
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 2: events being able to be played at the world's best

639
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 2: golf courses are and the ease of understanding for a

640
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 2: common fan of what the event is. It's the US

641
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 2: versus the GB and I or in the Ryder Cups case,

642
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 2: US versus Europe the fandoms.

643
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: This is a good event.

644
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 2: This is a good style of event for golf because

645
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 2: it's easy to understand, it has fan interests because of

646
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 2: the nationality, rooting interests, and.

647
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: Then the great golf courses.

648
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 2: I don't think anybody that was, you know, that just

649
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 2: passed by wouldn't have been, you know, awestruck by the

650
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 2: visuals of Cyprus.

651
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:44,720
Speaker 1: Point.

652
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it is pretty simple and yet pretty rare

653
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 3: for a lot of reasons, right. And I feel like

654
00:38:55,400 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 3: I've had this explain to me condescendingly so many times

655
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 3: over the years that I've just really gotten sick of it. No,

656
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 3: of course, we can't go to great golf courses because

657
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 3: the great golf courses don't want big tournaments. Say you know, no,

658
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 3: the Irish Open can't be at links courses. Of course

659
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 3: not we can't do that. We have to go to

660
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 3: the k Club and Mount Juliet because you know that

661
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 3: the links courses just just don't don't want the events.

662
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 3: That's unrealistic and it just kind of drives me crazy

663
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 3: because I think that golf fans have been browbeaten into

664
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 3: accepting mediocrity. But the Walker Cup exists. We have the

665
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 3: Walker Cup, so we know how good it can be.

666
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 3: And yet we've just convinced ourselves that this is not

667
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 3: a realistic model for golf. And I'm not sure how

668
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 3: to get out of that mindset. I am grateful for

669
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 3: the Walker Cup, but it is I mean, it's a

670
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 3: drop in the bucket in the the total landscape of

671
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 3: high profile, elite golf. They only had a total of

672
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 3: what six hours of TV coverage of this event. You

673
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 3: had to kind of seek it out and unless you

674
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:16,479
Speaker 3: have peak.

675
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,280
Speaker 1: That was one of my other other takeaways.

676
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,240
Speaker 3: It is such a small event and I'm sure that

677
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 3: that there would be some resistance from the USGA and

678
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 3: the RNA to really commercializing this event. You wouldn't necessarily

679
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 3: have to commercialize it, maybe just cover more of it.

680
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 3: I wish that felt more possible. But it seems like

681
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 3: a precondition of the Walker Cup being as good as

682
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 3: it is going to the courses that it goes to

683
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 3: and just feeling as good and as pure as it does.

684
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 3: It seems like a precondition of that is that it

685
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 3: that it has to be somewhat obscure, and that's that's

686
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 3: kind of a shame.

687
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I I you know, I don't know.

688
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 2: I I think about you know, obviously TGL is aimed

689
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 2: at being something completely different than this, but some sort

690
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 2: of I'd.

691
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:20,280
Speaker 3: Like to see how you're going to bring these threads

692
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 3: together here, TJ.

693
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 2: But some sort of of league of teams that played small,

694
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 2: intimate matches at the world's best golf courses. You know,

695
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 2: I know that it could be difficult to do this,

696
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 2: To try and do this, I can't imagine that the

697
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 2: TV product would staining.

698
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 3: Well, what we're missing. Part of what we're missing here

699
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 3: is Shelle's wonderful world of golf that doesn't really have

700
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 3: the I guess the team component that you're looking for,

701
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 3: but you you could have some sort of nationality angle

702
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 3: come into play with with some matches, maybe you have

703
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 3: a foursome's match or something like that. But that was

704
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 3: Shelle's Wonderful World of Golf was a great combination of

705
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 3: these kind of small intimate matches driven by personality made

706
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 3: into a workable TV product. But nobody's been able to

707
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,240
Speaker 3: recapture the magic of that program. Obviously it went away

708
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 3: in the nineties, so I mean it just hasn't survived

709
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 3: or resurfaced any any time in recent history. But something

710
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 3: like that would be a wonderful addition to the competitive

711
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 3: golf landscape.

712
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 2: I think the hard thing with this, and I want to,

713
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 2: you know, provide the counterpoint to what I just laid out,

714
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 2: is that golf, the commercial side of golf, has almost

715
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 2: become too big for a great golf product. And when

716
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,720
Speaker 2: you think about Shell's Wonderful World of Golf, I would

717
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 2: love to see it come back.

718
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 3: You know.

719
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 2: My biggest fear of it coming back would be then

720
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 2: the and I think probably the reality is that the

721
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 2: course selection would be dictated by who pays to be

722
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 2: a golf course.

723
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 3: Well just turn into the match, right, isn't The match

724
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 3: is like our current version of that, but of course

725
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 3: it's nowhere nowhere.

726
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:30,359
Speaker 2: Close and it becomes in the match is just this

727
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 2: huge cash. It's just this huge commercial operation, which then

728
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 2: basically makes it so hard to have a great golf

729
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 2: product when you have a huge commercialization. And I don't

730
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 2: want to be naive and acts like it takes no

731
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 2: money to put these things on, but I just think

732
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 2: I would just love for somebody to take a long

733
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 2: range view of this and say, if I make a

734
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 2: great golf product, the payoff might not be day one

735
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 2: and it might not be year one, but if I

736
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 2: make a great golf product, eventually there will be a

737
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 2: bigger payoff than just making these golf products that seemingly

738
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 2: nobody asks for. And the walker cups this version of golf,

739
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 2: especially with modern television, modern capabilities, and we saw Golf

740
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 2: Channel put out there I think probably about a c effort,

741
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:31,439
Speaker 2: but just because of the product that they were televising,

742
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 2: and when I say the product they were televising, the

743
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 2: golf course, the players, and the format this event, like

744
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 2: you're watching it and you're mesmerized like almost any unlike

745
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 2: almost any other event on the calendar all year, and

746
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 2: I just like, I guess that's my biggest gripe with

747
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 2: Shell's Wonderful World. If it comes back, it will be

748
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 2: killed by commercialization before it ever starts. And that's maybe

749
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 2: a very negative viewpoint on the subject, but it feels

750
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 2: to me like executives in golf cannot get out of

751
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 2: their own way with ruining something, and like the Walker

752
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 2: Cup in a way, the USGA, I think they don't.

753
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,760
Speaker 2: They're like kind of they're confused about what they should

754
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 2: do with it because of the lack of commercial success

755
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 2: that it has in an organization that's become much more

756
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 2: focused on commercialization on top of many other things that

757
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 2: they do. I think it's confusing for them as to

758
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 2: what it should do. But it also might be the

759
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 2: best golf products that they own.

760
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 3: It's tremendous for their brand as an organization and the

761
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 3: RNA's brand as an organization to have this event in

762
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 3: their roster, and I think they should just see it

763
00:45:54,239 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 3: as this tournament represents us well and makes our rhetoric

764
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 3: that we are about preserving and defending and enriching the

765
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 3: game of golf. Seem legitimate, because if all you have

766
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 3: as you're you know, you know, your big products in

767
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 3: the world of golf are the us OPENS, then that

768
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 3: rhetoric is going to seem false. It's going to seem

769
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 3: like you are primarily a commercial organization rather than one

770
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 3: that is genuinely interested in the future of golf. But

771
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 3: if you're the organization or one of the organizations behind

772
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 3: the Walker Cup, then then then people might actually believe

773
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 3: you when you say you care about golf. And I

774
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 3: do believe that the USGA cares about golf. I really

775
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,760
Speaker 3: do think that the people in charge love this event

776
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 3: and are devoted to the form of golf that it represents.

777
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 3: And it's because of their efforts that this tournament has

778
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 3: gone to such a great array of courses over the

779
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 3: past century. And so all credit to them for propping

780
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 3: this event up and keeping it going, but it should

781
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 3: be I hope there's not any doubt in the organization

782
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 3: that this is an important thing to keep going.

783
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I would echo your thoughts on the

784
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 2: us AA, LOV and golf. I think that that's very

785
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 2: evident with some of the decisions they've made. And I

786
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 2: think just in terms of you know, you spend time

787
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 2: with them at an event like this, it's it's clear.

788
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 1: You can see it on their faces how excited they

789
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 1: are about about the event. And I think that was.

790
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 2: It was a great week there. I want to talk

791
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:51,799
Speaker 2: a little bit about about Beth Page too. Do you

792
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 2: have any parting thoughts on Cyprus that you want to

793
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 2: get out?

794
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 3: It was a wonderful weekend. Yeah, I hope everybody enjoyed it.

795
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,359
Speaker 3: It was. It was really a time to kind of

796
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 3: sit and soak it in and enjoy a great golf course,

797
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,879
Speaker 3: a super rare opportunity. If you think that, think about

798
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 3: how the last Walker Cup there was forty four years ago.

799
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 3: That is a long long time ago, and it might.

800
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 1: Be last Crosby was thirty five.

801
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, it might be a long time before before we

802
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 3: see it again. So so I hope everybody took a

803
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 3: chance to to just enjoy it, because I mean, what

804
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 3: a golf course. It's it's just incredible. So glad glad

805
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 3: that this happened.

806
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:35,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would.

807
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:41,320
Speaker 2: The last thing I have is spectacular alternate shots, just spectacular.

808
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 3: Oh it's so good. They should they should have more

809
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 3: of it in the in the Walker Cup.

810
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 2: I feel I think that they got to figure something

811
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 2: out with the with the format because of the eighteenth

812
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 2: sickle smatches just singles.

813
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 3: There's is rough for GB and I yeah, just the

814
00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:00,479
Speaker 3: talent disparity. Really, it's it's hard to overcome that and

815
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 3: when you have those those two rounds of singles.

816
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 2: All right, before we get to Beth Page, let's talk

817
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 2: about one of our partners Best Day brewing. I actually

818
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 2: enjoyed some best Day this weekend. It was a great

819
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 2: way I was. I was I needed to manage my

820
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 2: energy over the over the course of the weekend, I

821
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 2: had a lot going on, a lot of a lot

822
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 2: of conversation, and one of the things I didn't want

823
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 2: to do was was kind of be be worse for

824
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 2: the wear on on a morning and miss out on

825
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 2: some of the wonderful experience that I had. And I think,

826
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 2: you know, best Day. I've really grown to enjoy this

827
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 2: because it is a opportunity. Is a non alcoholic beer

828
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 2: that is quite good. It is like basically your craft

829
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 2: beer that's a non alcoholic beer. I enjoy some of

830
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 2: their there and a beer is more than the real

831
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 2: beer I get. And one of the things I I've

832
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 2: learned about my consumption is like I think, like a

833
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 2: beer for me is somewhat of a ritual at this

834
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 2: point in my life, and I just enjoy having something

835
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 2: to drink, and this gives me something that's delicious to

836
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 2: drink and at that moment that I need it. So

837
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 2: if you want to check out best Day, it's Best

838
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 2: Day Brewing dot com. I have a friend that does

839
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:31,280
Speaker 2: you know, kind of NA beer reviews. He is convinced

840
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,760
Speaker 2: this is the best NA beer that you can get.

841
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,400
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842
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:40,160
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843
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:45,520
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844
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 2: if you really like this stuff, it is a great

845
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 2: way to do that. And it's a great way to

846
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 2: kind of stay sharp and attune to something while you know,

847
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 2: having something that's really refreshing. So go to Best Day

848
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 2: Brewing dot com and big thanks to them for partnering

849
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:01,720
Speaker 2: with pod.

850
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 1: Let's get to bed Page.

851
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 2: You you made your first trip out to this, uh,

852
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 2: I mean landmark American Landmark of golf beth Page State Park.

853
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 2: We're a couple of weeks away from the Ryder Cup.

854
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,479
Speaker 2: I want to do kind of a short segment here.

855
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 2: I know we're going to be, you know, everybody in

856
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 2: the golf world is going to be just beating people

857
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 2: over the head with Ryder Cup stuff. But it is

858
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 2: a spectacle, and this year it's going to one of

859
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 2: you know, American golf's landmark locations, beth Page and particularly

860
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 2: the bath of the Black Course.

861
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,879
Speaker 3: I feel like I've already been getting getting beat over

862
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 3: the head by Ryder Cup content, and.

863
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 2: Not just like if there wasn't a Walker Cup, I

864
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 2: know exactly, we have nothing else, it would have been awful.

865
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 3: It was very fortunate. You're right, You're absolutely right, because

866
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 3: right that the entire month of September would just be

867
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,879
Speaker 3: a blitz. I mean it's been. I feel like Ryder

868
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 3: Cup content is an every year, year round kind of

869
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 3: kind of deal right now. But I haven't actually seen

870
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 3: that much discussion of the golf course. And that's why

871
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 3: part of why I was so interested in going to

872
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 3: see it. I mean, I was going to go see

873
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 3: it no matter what, but I was particularly excited about

874
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 3: this trip to go see the Black Course at beth

875
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:26,800
Speaker 3: Page just because I feel like I haven't seen much

876
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 3: good content on this course. I haven't had anybody explain

877
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 3: to me what's unique or remarkable about this course beyond

878
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 3: the fact that it is very, very difficult. It has

879
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 3: that sign out front that just portrays it as kind

880
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:46,479
Speaker 3: of the black Diamond Ski run of beth Page State Park.

881
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 3: We know that about it, we know that it's hard,

882
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 3: but beyond that, I didn't have a clear idea of

883
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 3: what to expect from this course. So I was very

884
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:01,720
Speaker 3: very keen to get my eyes on this course, walk

885
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,800
Speaker 3: it and check it out, and maybe find out some

886
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 3: things that I didn't know about it before.

887
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 1: What were you What was the big takeaway?

888
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 2: What was the thing that kind of to that most

889
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 2: resonated with you with the With the Black Course.

890
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:20,799
Speaker 3: Two takeaways kind of related to each other. One is

891
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 3: a plus land, two is a plus routing. I think

892
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 3: those are the biggest strength strengths of the Black Course.

893
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 3: It's not that the course is hard. That's not the

894
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 3: leading characteristic of the black Horse or the thing that

895
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 3: makes it a high quality course. It's not just that

896
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 3: it's hard, though it is definitely very very difficult. I

897
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:46,479
Speaker 3: think the fact that it sits on extremely good land.

898
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 3: They they obviously kind of selected the best land that

899
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,959
Speaker 3: they had at their disposal in this area and put

900
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 3: the Black Course on it. Kind of prioritized the Black

901
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 3: Course in that way, and then the routing works with

902
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 3: the land so well. So, first of all, the land

903
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 3: I think is really great for golf because it's dramatic

904
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 3: and there's a lot of elevation change, a lot of

905
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 3: topographical interest, but it's never too severe. So you know,

906
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 3: Bethpage kind of sits on this land that is more

907
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:31,720
Speaker 3: or less. You know, there's not like an overall tilt

908
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 3: to the land. It's not on a hillside or anything.

909
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 3: It doesn't you know that the farthest point of the

910
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 3: course is at about the same elevation as the first

911
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 3: t But what you have in between are all of

912
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 3: these kind of up and down ridges and valleys, and

913
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 3: they're very interesting and all of them are kind of

914
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 3: sized to accommodate golf holes, so you know, you know,

915
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 3: you never spend like multiple holes trying to get across

916
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 3: one landform at beth Page. You're always kind of tackling

917
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 3: a new landform and kind of getting done with it

918
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 3: by the end of the hole. And so it's just

919
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 3: very well proportioned land for a golf course. It's constantly

920
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 3: interesting and beautiful. You're always kind of discovering new features,

921
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 3: new little nooks and crannies of the property as you're

922
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 3: going through the golf course. So that's something that I

923
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:33,319
Speaker 3: really enjoyed about it. And then the routing of the

924
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 3: course is just brilliant. It is an out and back routing. Basically,

925
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 3: it doesn't have returning nines, so I believe it is

926
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 3: the ninth tee that is the at the farthest point

927
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 3: from the clubhouse, or at least that's that's the way

928
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,879
Speaker 3: it feels when when you're on the course, you play

929
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 3: the eighth hole, which is a par three, then you

930
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 3: climb up to the ninth tee and at that point

931
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 3: you're kind of making your way back to the clubhouse.

932
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 3: And so it is very much an out and back concept.

933
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 3: And part of what this does is that it makes

934
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 3: you feel like you're taking a journey into the wilderness

935
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 3: and you're being tested by this golf course, and then

936
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:22,319
Speaker 3: you come back out presumably in an altered state, right

937
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 3: changed by the experience, and that to me is the

938
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 3: true theme of the golf course. This golf course is

939
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:33,880
Speaker 3: a test of golfing skill. It's a test of courage

940
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:39,439
Speaker 3: and metal. It's a test of what you've got internally right,

941
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 3: and in order to get tested, you plunge into the

942
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 3: wilderness and then you come back out. And when you

943
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 3: come back out, basically the course kind of crosses a

944
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 3: road to get into it, the course section of it.

945
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 3: So you play the first hole, then you cross a

946
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 3: road and you play holes too through fourteen. You cross

947
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:06,400
Speaker 3: back over the road and play fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, and

948
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 3: eighteen in an area that is closer to the clubhouse.

949
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,839
Speaker 3: When you come back into this area near the clubhouse

950
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 3: and you play those last four holes, you feel like

951
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 3: you're in an arena. You've taken this journey into the

952
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 3: wilderness and you've come back out into this arena where

953
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 3: you're administered the final test. You feel like you're like

954
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 3: a gladiator and you're in this coliseum of golf, and

955
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 3: that's what then brings you to the conclusion of the course.

956
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 3: So I think what the routing does, aside from using

957
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 3: the land really well and finding interesting ways to use

958
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 3: the land, you know, applying the golf holes to the

959
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 3: land in ways that are constantly changing and very cool,

960
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 3: the routing has this kind of coherence as a story

961
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 3: about what the golf course is. And that is something

962
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 3: that I did not understand from any previous coverage of

963
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 3: the golf course or seeing past tournaments at the course.

964
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 3: That's something you can only really feel when you when

965
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 3: you walk this course. So I think those are the

966
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 3: things that make Beth Page grade. It's it's the A

967
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 3: plus land, A plus routing. Those are those are super

968
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 3: strong when it comes to this course.

969
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say that in terms that you know

970
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 2: I I have. I don't love a lot like the

971
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 2: grass decisions, the grassing decisions, they.

972
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 3: Are and are way too narrow.

973
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 1: What I mean, it is like.

974
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 2: The fairway lines that you know they could be wider,

975
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 2: but in terms of of a golf course from t

976
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 2: to green, and it is about as impressive as it

977
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 2: gets in terms of the golf holes. And and I

978
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 2: haven't been out there since the PGA, but I vividly,

979
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 2: I have like vivid recall of really like the stretch

980
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 2: of two through nine to me is just such a

981
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 2: fantastic stretch of golf holes. In particular when you get

982
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 2: like four, five, six, seven, eight, it just you the

983
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 2: these holes they're like a roller coasters, soing through there

984
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 2: and They've got these beautiful twists and turns and in

985
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 2: these these landforms, as you said that you have to

986
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 2: kind of play over, down, around, and it is a

987
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 2: it is a sensational piece of land that this golf

988
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 2: course is on. And I think, you know, is it

989
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 2: my favorite golf course in the world. No, do. I

990
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:43,920
Speaker 2: think it's like maybe the best, Uh, it might be

991
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 2: the best Ryder Cup venue.

992
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 1: We've had in some time.

993
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think like Whistling Straits would be in the

994
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 2: in the conversation, but this should it, you know, And

995
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 2: I think it'll be.

996
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 1: The setup of it for the Ryder Cup.

997
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 2: I think they you know, they're they're obviously going to

998
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 2: promote scoring and I think like with the rough down,

999
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 2: if it's down, there will be a pretty good variance

1000
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 2: in scoring on these holes. I think it could be

1001
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 2: pretty fascinating. The thing that I'm most worried about is

1002
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 2: just is it too easy to get up and down

1003
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 2: from around the greens on that golf course at this

1004
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 2: point with where the modern game is because like the

1005
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 2: identity of that golf course, what made it so tough

1006
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 2: in two thousand and two was getting to the green,

1007
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 2: and I think the difficulty of getting to the green

1008
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 2: at beth Page has never been lower, and if you

1009
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 2: cut the rough down it'll be very low. Where it's

1010
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 2: not difficult is around the greens and miss greens are

1011
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 2: are if you're close to the green, are are pretty basic,

1012
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 2: simple up and downs, And that would be one of

1013
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 2: my big questions about this golf course. And in terms

1014
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 2: of doling out bogies, which what you want? I think,

1015
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:06,480
Speaker 2: like I've thought about this a lot and I'd.

1016
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 1: Be curious your take on it.

1017
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 2: What makes a good match play course is like the

1018
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 2: question and where my thoughts have been around it is

1019
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,600
Speaker 2: I think a golf course that promotes a lot of

1020
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 2: variance and scoring, so holes where a wide spectrum of

1021
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 2: scores are feasible, And that would be my concern with

1022
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 2: Bethpage is that I think we'll just see a smattering

1023
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 2: of birdies, a lot of pars, and a handful of bogies.

1024
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 3: It's because not much can go wrong on or around

1025
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 3: the greens. You can get in some bunkers that are

1026
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 3: pretty nasty and if you're short sighted then you're going

1027
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 3: to struggle to get it close. But that's only because

1028
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:54,400
Speaker 3: of the depth of the bunker and the fact that

1029
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 3: you're short sighted. It's not because of any contouring on

1030
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 3: the greens that you'll be screwed in those positions. And

1031
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 3: that's the big flaw of Bethpage Black. The greens simply

1032
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 3: are not very interesting. And it's the part of the

1033
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 3: course that makes you feel like or that makes you

1034
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 3: wonder how much aw tilling Hast really had to do

1035
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 3: with this course while it was being constructed, because if

1036
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:22,600
Speaker 3: you look at Wingfoot West, or if you look at

1037
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 3: the lower course at Baltus Rawl or Somerset Hills, then

1038
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 3: you know that tilling Hast has a taste for wild greens,

1039
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:34,800
Speaker 3: or at least for interesting contour on greens, and you

1040
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 3: just don't really get any of that at beth Page.

1041
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 3: You mentioned the second hole earlier, I think as the

1042
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:41,919
Speaker 3: start of this great stretch, and it's such a great hole,

1043
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 3: kind of works its way around this ridge and then

1044
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:49,919
Speaker 3: it jumps up to the top of another ridge where

1045
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 3: the green sits, and so it's this wonderful, really charismatic

1046
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 3: looking golf hole that introduces you to the best part

1047
01:02:57,160 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 3: of the property. But then you get up and look

1048
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 3: at that green and it is a dead flat oval.

1049
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:08,080
Speaker 3: There's nothing going on there. And you know, other greens

1050
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 3: at Bethpage have more to them, but that kind of

1051
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 3: gives you an indication of what you're in for really

1052
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:19,320
Speaker 3: interesting golf holes tee to green and some greens that

1053
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 3: are just a little bit disappointing. And yeah, I think

1054
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 3: that is something that makes beth Page Black not hold

1055
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 3: up quite as well for modern tournament golf in general,

1056
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:34,920
Speaker 3: not just match play golf, I don't think, but in

1057
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 3: general modern tournament golf is maybe less compelling at beth

1058
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 3: Page because tee to green play has become less of

1059
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 3: a factor with technology that more and more people have

1060
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 3: been able to master the tea to green game. And

1061
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 3: so if you're going to get interest from a golf

1062
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 3: course in a high level tournament, it's usually going to

1063
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 3: come on and around the greens. Augusta National is the

1064
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 3: perfect proof and example of this, and the Black course

1065
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 3: just doesn't offer that right now. And so I think

1066
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:11,440
Speaker 3: that it's not just match play where that's going to

1067
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:15,919
Speaker 3: be a limiting factor for the interest that beth Page

1068
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 3: Black can produce. I think it's pretty much any modern

1069
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:21,240
Speaker 3: tournament at beth Page is going to have this this

1070
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 3: governor on it.

1071
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the golf world and you might have

1072
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:32,160
Speaker 2: a completely different opinion has become way too infatuated with restoration.

1073
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 2: I think restoration is important for the very very best.

1074
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 2: Like to me, we should restore courses that are truly extraordinary.

1075
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 1: Golf courses should.

1076
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 3: Restore Cyper's point, which they have yeah recently.

1077
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 1: So exactly.

1078
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:53,360
Speaker 2: I think like there are or historic courses, like if

1079
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:56,439
Speaker 2: there's and I think like Beth Page is an interesting one.

1080
01:04:56,480 --> 01:05:01,640
Speaker 2: Like I think if you just left it the way

1081
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 2: it is and just said to an architect, can you

1082
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 2: just spruce up the greens a little right, it would

1083
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 2: all of a sudden vault up. And I think it's

1084
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:17,919
Speaker 2: obviously rated in some publications very highly. I don't think

1085
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:20,960
Speaker 2: that highly of the golf course as a whole, Like

1086
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 2: it's very good.

1087
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 1: It's one of the best public golf courses you could play.

1088
01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 2: I'm not saying any of that, but you know, it

1089
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:32,280
Speaker 2: is not for me in the upper upper echelon of

1090
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:34,880
Speaker 2: golf courses in the world. And what holds it back

1091
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 2: to the greens is like a very simple green renovation

1092
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 2: would take this golf course to a whole different level,

1093
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:44,720
Speaker 2: and I think it would become one of the best

1094
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 2: major championship golf courses in the world with a simple

1095
01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 2: greens renovation.

1096
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:55,240
Speaker 3: You know, one of the most interesting renovation projects that's

1097
01:05:55,280 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 3: happened in recent years was a Desert Forest golf club

1098
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:05,840
Speaker 3: in the Scottsdale, Arizona area. And this is pretty obscure.

1099
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 3: If you haven't heard of this, that's not your fault.

1100
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 3: It's a fairly low profile club, an extremely wonderful golf course.

1101
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:17,520
Speaker 3: Like I think, this is a terrific, terrific golf course

1102
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:21,360
Speaker 3: on a great piece of land, especially if you think

1103
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 3: of most of the land that was used for golf

1104
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 3: in Scottsdale. Desert Forest sits on this kind of rolling,

1105
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:31,520
Speaker 3: rolling plot of land that you just don't expect out

1106
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:35,439
Speaker 3: of that area. So Tee to Green Desert Forest has

1107
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 3: always been a great golf course. It was designed in

1108
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 3: the nineteen fifties by a guy named Red Lawrence, and

1109
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:46,200
Speaker 3: he did a great job of routing the course and

1110
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:49,360
Speaker 3: using the topography. But then he got to the greens

1111
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:53,800
Speaker 3: and they were basically the same green one through eighteen,

1112
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:57,480
Speaker 3: over and over and over. And so what the club did,

1113
01:06:57,520 --> 01:06:59,760
Speaker 3: and this was really smart, is that they brought in

1114
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 3: an architect named Dave Zincand, who has worked for Corn

1115
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:07,600
Speaker 3: Crenshaw and was around that time opening his own design business,

1116
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 3: and said basically, give us more interesting greens. And so

1117
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:16,040
Speaker 3: zinc And went in there and did exactly that shape

1118
01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:19,480
Speaker 3: these beautiful greens that kind of tie into the strategy

1119
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:23,080
Speaker 3: of the holes that was always suggested by the by

1120
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 3: the you know, topography and the and the shape of

1121
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 3: the holes in the landscape, but wasn't really followed through

1122
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:32,760
Speaker 3: on because the greens didn't really do anything, didn't really

1123
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:37,360
Speaker 3: demand different shots from from different angles. Well, what zinc

1124
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:41,640
Speaker 3: And did is that he took that inspiration from the

1125
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 3: holes as they sat in the terrain and designed some

1126
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:49,919
Speaker 3: greens that just had more variety and more strategic sophistication.

1127
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:53,920
Speaker 3: And I think that kind of move at Bethpage Black

1128
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 3: would be very very intelligent as an approach to renovation,

1129
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:03,480
Speaker 3: But it would be hard to do because it's such

1130
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 3: a high profile golf course. There are so many people

1131
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:10,520
Speaker 3: who play and love that course as it is. It

1132
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:13,760
Speaker 3: would just be a tough sell. But I agree with

1133
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:16,760
Speaker 3: you that the potential is there. You could just look

1134
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 3: at some of tilling Hast's other sets of greens and

1135
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:23,840
Speaker 3: you'd have a great template for what you could do

1136
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:27,040
Speaker 3: with some of those green complexes at the Black Course.

1137
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:30,720
Speaker 3: But yeah, I agree that that's what is holding to

1138
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:33,000
Speaker 3: me when I look at Bethpage Black, when I walk

1139
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:34,960
Speaker 3: that course from Tee to Green, look at the land,

1140
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:38,880
Speaker 3: look at the routing. It is a top fifty golf

1141
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:42,080
Speaker 3: course in the US. I think that's what it feels

1142
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 3: like to me Tee to Green. But the greens and

1143
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 3: the mowing lines are the thing that make it not

1144
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 3: that right now, And maybe some of the bunker work

1145
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:56,960
Speaker 3: that has been done by Rhys Jones over the past

1146
01:08:57,160 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 3: couple of decades it has been best.

1147
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 2: I mean the restoration when he did it was transformational.

1148
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:07,120
Speaker 3: It was not a yeah, it's it's It wasn't a

1149
01:09:07,160 --> 01:09:09,639
Speaker 3: restoration is yeah, it's a restart.

1150
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:14,800
Speaker 2: But at the the you know where the where the

1151
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 2: renovation restoration world has gotten to since the since basically

1152
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:25,559
Speaker 2: two thousand is remarkably higher bar than than where it

1153
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 2: was when that work was done. Yes, real quick, what's

1154
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:35,760
Speaker 2: one hole that you're particularly keen to watching the Ryder Cup.

1155
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:38,479
Speaker 3: Well, it's got to be in that stretch that you

1156
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 3: mentioned earlier. Basically from three I love two as well,

1157
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 3: but from three to six. That for me, is where

1158
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:53,120
Speaker 3: the golf course really becomes great. Everybody knows four. It's

1159
01:09:53,160 --> 01:09:56,320
Speaker 3: the great hazard hole. When you see it on TV.

1160
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 3: Just imagine it looking about ten times bigger in person.

1161
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:03,400
Speaker 3: The elevation drop from the tee to the fairway and

1162
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:05,920
Speaker 3: then the climb from the fairway up to the green

1163
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:10,000
Speaker 3: is just much much bigger than you can imagine just

1164
01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:13,559
Speaker 3: looking at it on TV. But I think this single

1165
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:17,479
Speaker 3: hole that I'll be most curious about is going to

1166
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 3: actually be six. It's a very interesting and I think

1167
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 3: fairly short for these guys par four and the fairway

1168
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:30,800
Speaker 3: kind of has a little bit of a jog in

1169
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:34,880
Speaker 3: the landing zone where it wraps around some bunkers and

1170
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 3: then dips down before climbing back up to the green.

1171
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 3: And I just want to see where players position themselves

1172
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 3: on that fairway. Are they going to hit a conservative

1173
01:10:46,240 --> 01:10:49,559
Speaker 3: shot kind of between the bunkers on the higher ground,

1174
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:51,880
Speaker 3: or are they going to try to take it over

1175
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:56,280
Speaker 3: that left bunker and get down into the goalie in

1176
01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:58,440
Speaker 3: front of the green. What's going to be their strategy

1177
01:10:58,479 --> 01:11:00,640
Speaker 3: on that hole? They're probably youre going to head it

1178
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:02,760
Speaker 3: into the goalie. I mean you know that's probably what

1179
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:04,639
Speaker 3: they're going to do. But but I think it's a

1180
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 3: it's a cool golfer and and I'm looking forward to

1181
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:09,479
Speaker 3: to seeing some of the strategic dynamics there.

1182
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:15,200
Speaker 2: I just got a message from producer PJ. Yes justice

1183
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 2: for six six rules, So.

1184
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:20,880
Speaker 3: So that has a stamp of approval from from the

1185
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:22,560
Speaker 3: Long Long Island.

1186
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:26,840
Speaker 2: Guy, Happy Happy Long Island public golfer PJ for the

1187
01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:29,960
Speaker 2: for the vote on six the You know, I'm actually

1188
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:31,680
Speaker 2: kind of interested. I don't I don't know if you

1189
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:34,080
Speaker 2: saw this when you're out there, what the what the

1190
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:37,120
Speaker 2: grand stands. I I think just like a cool part

1191
01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 2: of the courses ten and eleven, the back to back

1192
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:40,479
Speaker 2: part four us that.

1193
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:41,880
Speaker 3: Share that that's that's sort of like.

1194
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:47,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I just I love that, like kind of

1195
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:52,160
Speaker 2: like center of energy. I remember fondly watching a lot

1196
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:56,200
Speaker 2: of golf back there during the PGA, and to me,

1197
01:11:56,400 --> 01:11:58,600
Speaker 2: that's that's one area that I.

1198
01:11:58,600 --> 01:11:59,280
Speaker 1: Would I would.

1199
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:03,280
Speaker 2: I I'm keen to watch. And I think like if

1200
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:05,760
Speaker 2: you get a couple of groups on that hole, those

1201
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:07,960
Speaker 2: holes at the same time with all the fans, it's

1202
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:11,439
Speaker 2: going to be just like a very cool atmosphere, you know.

1203
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:14,840
Speaker 2: And I think those holes are are somewhat interesting from

1204
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:18,840
Speaker 2: t degree. They're obviously fairly penal with the amount of

1205
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:21,800
Speaker 2: bunkers that are on them, and you know it could

1206
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 2: dule out some penalty if you get in the wrong

1207
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:28,720
Speaker 2: spot on them in the match play. But obviously then

1208
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:31,439
Speaker 2: the close will be will be electric when you get

1209
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:34,120
Speaker 2: back over the road in the in the closing couple holes,

1210
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 2: there are such.

1211
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:37,760
Speaker 3: A great setting for yeah, close of a tournament. I

1212
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:41,200
Speaker 3: think it's going to be so intense and cool in

1213
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:46,320
Speaker 3: the Ryder Cup. Just that whole natural amphitheater around the fifteenth, sixteenth,

1214
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:49,040
Speaker 3: and seventeenth holes, and then you kind of climb up

1215
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:52,839
Speaker 3: onto a ridge and go back down into another natural

1216
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:56,439
Speaker 3: amphitheater for the eighteenth hole. It's going to be great.

1217
01:12:56,600 --> 01:12:59,560
Speaker 3: But yeah, you shout it out the tenth and eleventh holes, specifically,

1218
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:02,280
Speaker 3: sitting in the grand stand behind the eleventh green would

1219
01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 3: be a great spot because you can see the t

1220
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:06,640
Speaker 3: shots on the tenth hole, you can see play on

1221
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:09,360
Speaker 3: the eleventh hole, and you can also see play on

1222
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:12,920
Speaker 3: the ninth hole because that green sits right in that

1223
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:16,360
Speaker 3: kind of collection area and the ninth hole is a

1224
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:20,759
Speaker 3: very cool dog leg left par four with some great

1225
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:25,080
Speaker 3: wavy topography in the landing zone for drives, or you

1226
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:27,439
Speaker 3: can cut the corner and get up to higher ground.

1227
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:30,160
Speaker 3: I think that's a very fun golf hole. But one

1228
01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 3: thing is specifically I wanted to mention about ten and

1229
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:35,120
Speaker 3: eleven is that those two fairways have actually been widened.

1230
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:40,879
Speaker 3: We're getting righter fairways there. Yeah, awesome. Previously, those bunkers

1231
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:43,080
Speaker 3: that you're talking about between the holes, kind of the

1232
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:48,880
Speaker 3: penal bunkers that flank those holes up and down. Previously

1233
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:53,000
Speaker 3: those were very much marooned in the rough. Recently they

1234
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 3: have expanded the fairways out to the bunkers because they

1235
01:13:56,120 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 3: discovered that, of course we want balls actually going in

1236
01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:02,040
Speaker 3: the bunkers and not just getting not getting held up

1237
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:04,479
Speaker 3: by the rough. So I think those holes will be

1238
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:06,800
Speaker 3: will be much improved because of that work.

1239
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:08,160
Speaker 1: Awesome.

1240
01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:11,760
Speaker 2: Well, look forward to chatting more about Beth Page in

1241
01:14:11,800 --> 01:14:14,360
Speaker 2: the in the lead up to the Ryder Cup. But Garrett,

1242
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:18,439
Speaker 2: thank you for joining me. People can find your golf

1243
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:23,280
Speaker 2: course thoughts in greater detail on your podcast Designing Golf.

1244
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:27,080
Speaker 2: It's been fun to watch that podcast grow over the

1245
01:14:27,080 --> 01:14:29,479
Speaker 2: course of the year. You're getting close to a year

1246
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:33,479
Speaker 2: into it. So congratulations on that, and we will talk

1247
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:37,519
Speaker 2: to you soon. But big thanks to you guys for listening,

1248
01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:40,400
Speaker 2: and big thanks to p J Clark for editing and

1249
01:14:40,479 --> 01:14:44,120
Speaker 2: producing this podcast. We'll be back next week. I don't

1250
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:46,800
Speaker 2: know what we're gonna do next week yet. I kind

1251
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:50,400
Speaker 2: of wanted to zig probably from Ryder Cup, but we may.

1252
01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:53,439
Speaker 2: We may zag right back into that Ryder Cup traffic

1253
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:56,960
Speaker 2: and then we'll be back, of course the following week

1254
01:14:57,000 --> 01:15:00,080
Speaker 2: with our Ryder Cup preview and on the grounds there.

1255
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:01,479
Speaker 1: But we'll be back.

1256
01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:05,439
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and I hope you guys enjoyed the

1257
01:15:05,479 --> 01:15:07,240
Speaker 2: weekend of golf at the Walker Cup