WEBVTT - Post FTX, Do Blockchain Games Stand a Chance?

0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:05.760
<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I Heard podcast,

0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:08.720
<v Speaker 1>and I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for

0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:28.240
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg News. It's Tuesday, January Food. The relationship between crypto

0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:32.519
<v Speaker 1>and gaming is not always straightforward. Some gamers and some

0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:37.159
<v Speaker 1>game companies have outright rejected all things blockchain and crypto.

0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:40.559
<v Speaker 1>They say the environmental considerations haven't been fully addressed, and

0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:44.680
<v Speaker 1>that turning games into speculative investment opportunities just straight up

0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:49.400
<v Speaker 1>ruins the fund. Others are cautiously optimistic and experimenting with

0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:52.320
<v Speaker 1>things like in game n f t s. A smaller

0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:57.680
<v Speaker 1>number and a relatively vocal minority are absolutely committed to

0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:02.040
<v Speaker 1>making blockchain based games happen. Among those who were committed

0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:07.320
<v Speaker 1>in vocal well fd X and some bankman freed. Earlier

0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.040
<v Speaker 1>this year, ft X announced plans to start its own

0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:13.440
<v Speaker 1>gaming unit, a platform that would help games companies launch

0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:16.680
<v Speaker 1>their own tokens, dabble in n f t s, use

0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:19.920
<v Speaker 1>their infrastructure. F t X had also worked with a

0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:23.080
<v Speaker 1>handful of gaming startups to expand their gaming footprint in

0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.680
<v Speaker 1>other areas, but in the aftermath of the ft X meltdown,

0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:29.880
<v Speaker 1>many wondered what the future of those small companies might

0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:33.000
<v Speaker 1>look like. To make sense of the impact the ft

0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:35.399
<v Speaker 1>X meltdown has had on the gaming industry, we have

0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:39.920
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Report Hannah Miller, so we know that within Sam

0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:43.720
<v Speaker 1>Bankman Freed's empire there was the synthesis on gaming, both

0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:48.040
<v Speaker 1>through ft X Ventures and through this ft X gaming

0:01:48.040 --> 0:02:02.280
<v Speaker 1>operation they were developing. Yea, yeah, Hatt, welcome back to

0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:04.840
<v Speaker 1>the show. Thank you for having me remind our listeners

0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:07.680
<v Speaker 1>what you're up to. Yeah. So, I am based in

0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:10.600
<v Speaker 1>San Francisco. I'm on the Crypto and Tech teams, and

0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:13.880
<v Speaker 1>I cover crypto startups and venture capital, what's going on

0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:17.800
<v Speaker 1>with crypto startups and venture capital in general. But today

0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:23.120
<v Speaker 1>we're going to talk specifically about the crypto gaming ecosystem. Now,

0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:27.520
<v Speaker 1>partly because I love video games and I have the

0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:30.440
<v Speaker 1>ability to do this, We've had a lot of conversations

0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:32.720
<v Speaker 1>about about crypto and gaming on the show. We've heard

0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:36.000
<v Speaker 1>from our colleague Emily Nicole, We've heard from our colleagues

0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:39.000
<v Speaker 1>cecil A Donastasio, and one of the things that you

0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.440
<v Speaker 1>know they've been clear on is it's not the case

0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:46.880
<v Speaker 1>that there is a universal agreement or disagreement on the

0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:49.799
<v Speaker 1>relationship between crypto and games. What have you observed in

0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:53.200
<v Speaker 1>your reporting. Well, this is a really fun space to

0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.600
<v Speaker 1>write about. I too love video games, so it's been

0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.680
<v Speaker 1>really interesting talking to founders over the past few months

0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:02.760
<v Speaker 1>about their blockchain games, and I think I've seen some

0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:06.119
<v Speaker 1>really big changes in terms of how people are looking

0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:09.520
<v Speaker 1>at blockchain gaming. I feel like when crypto was hot,

0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:11.920
<v Speaker 1>people were like, oh, yeah, this game is all about

0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.400
<v Speaker 1>n f t S, it's all about blockchain. You know,

0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:19.120
<v Speaker 1>we're we're ridding the wave here. But now it feels

0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:22.120
<v Speaker 1>like people want blockchain and fade into the background. You know,

0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:24.760
<v Speaker 1>they still want to use this technology, but they don't

0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:26.760
<v Speaker 1>want it to be in your face. So they've gone

0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:29.160
<v Speaker 1>from this is all about crypto to our favorite phrase,

0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:36.160
<v Speaker 1>the underlying technology. Who were some of the people, particularly

0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:40.040
<v Speaker 1>in the venture space, who had been promoting the idea

0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:43.480
<v Speaker 1>of blockchain gaming and crypto, whether from an underlying technology

0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:46.320
<v Speaker 1>perspective or otherwise. Well, one of the first names that

0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:50.040
<v Speaker 1>comes to mind is Sam bankmn freed Um. Yeah, we've

0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.400
<v Speaker 1>all heard about his role in the spectacular collapse of

0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.840
<v Speaker 1>f t X, but what some people might not realize

0:03:56.880 --> 0:04:00.840
<v Speaker 1>is that he was super into gaming. He was actually

0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:05.560
<v Speaker 1>playing League of Legends during calls with major investors like Sequoia,

0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:07.760
<v Speaker 1>and they thought this was super cool at the time,

0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:10.840
<v Speaker 1>But in hindsight, I think it kind of shows, you know,

0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:15.040
<v Speaker 1>his flippancy towards this space and you know the work

0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:18.839
<v Speaker 1>that he was doing, and raises a red flag. He

0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:23.200
<v Speaker 1>was also playing Storybook roll during some recent Twitter spaces,

0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:27.159
<v Speaker 1>neither of which are blockchain based. I would note, Yeah,

0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:31.600
<v Speaker 1>he loves story book brawls so much that FTX acquired them. Now,

0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:34.160
<v Speaker 1>So ft X, it sounds to me like ft X

0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:36.200
<v Speaker 1>was thinking about gaming in a couple of different ways.

0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.719
<v Speaker 1>They were promoting blockchain gaming. They had a hundred million

0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:45.760
<v Speaker 1>dollar fund with light Speed to support the Solana gaming ecosystem,

0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:50.440
<v Speaker 1>and they straight up both games. Why other than SPF's

0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:54.200
<v Speaker 1>own interest here, Yeah, I think a lot of people

0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:58.120
<v Speaker 1>see gaming as an important front here within blockchain This

0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:03.359
<v Speaker 1>is a way too easily on board regular consumers. It's

0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:05.760
<v Speaker 1>a fun way to get people involved with things like

0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:10.760
<v Speaker 1>n FT and crypto tokens. But it's been really interesting

0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:14.480
<v Speaker 1>to balance that with the backlash that blockchain gaming has

0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:20.360
<v Speaker 1>faced among regular gamers and regular gaming companies. So yes,

0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:25.480
<v Speaker 1>there was a lot of passion um in promoting these

0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:31.200
<v Speaker 1>blockchain gaming projects, but at the same time founders and

0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:35.359
<v Speaker 1>investors had to contend with regular gamers just kind of

0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:37.840
<v Speaker 1>shaking their fists in the air and saying we don't

0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:39.960
<v Speaker 1>want them, we don't want blockchain in our backyard. Now,

0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.320
<v Speaker 1>let's be clear, gamers do not only shake their fists

0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:45.880
<v Speaker 1>in the air. This was just like a vocal opinion

0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:48.200
<v Speaker 1>as that I'm just describing myself. But you know, I

0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.000
<v Speaker 1>remember so after the story Book Rowl acquisition, they got

0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.560
<v Speaker 1>review bombed, right, like a lot of angry gamers were like,

0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.480
<v Speaker 1>this game sucks. Nothing had changed other than the owners.

0:05:56.760 --> 0:06:01.400
<v Speaker 1>So we're talking about a passionate community. Now what are

0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:05.040
<v Speaker 1>some of the objections of this vocal segments of gamers

0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.560
<v Speaker 1>to the existence of crypto and games specifically. Yeah, I

0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:10.480
<v Speaker 1>think the big question is why do we need crypto

0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:13.960
<v Speaker 1>in gaming and is there really a point here? And

0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:17.400
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people have looked examples like ACTI Infinity

0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:20.760
<v Speaker 1>and they're like, well, this is just defy wrapped in

0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:24.000
<v Speaker 1>crappy graphics, Like this isn't fun, This is just a

0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:26.279
<v Speaker 1>way for people to make money. This is just a

0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:29.279
<v Speaker 1>way for people to profit. It's not actually something that's

0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:33.839
<v Speaker 1>improving my experience in gameplay. One of the more interesting

0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:40.280
<v Speaker 1>hires that f t X made prior to everything was

0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:44.880
<v Speaker 1>a person named Amy Wou. Tell me more about Amy Wu. Yeah,

0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:49.200
<v Speaker 1>Amy Wou, big name and venture capital like super hot,

0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:53.160
<v Speaker 1>rising star. You know, she had been at light Speed

0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:58.160
<v Speaker 1>before going over to really help oversee ft X Ventures,

0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.840
<v Speaker 1>and any founder I've spoken to who's worked with her

0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:06.480
<v Speaker 1>has just said how smart she is, that she knows

0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:10.040
<v Speaker 1>how to ask tough questions, she knows what numbers to

0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:13.720
<v Speaker 1>ask for, and that she's also you know, someone who

0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:17.720
<v Speaker 1>invests in you will keep that relationship going look out

0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:20.640
<v Speaker 1>for you, you know, even after you know she's moved

0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:23.040
<v Speaker 1>places like you know, I spoke to people who she

0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.520
<v Speaker 1>invested in them through light Speed, but it was still

0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:28.680
<v Speaker 1>like a good contact for them. When she was at

0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:31.600
<v Speaker 1>FTX Ventures and a big part of her portfolio at

0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:35.320
<v Speaker 1>light Speed and then later at FTX was gaming correct. Yeah,

0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:38.360
<v Speaker 1>she she was a huge force there in terms of um,

0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, investing in gaming startups. And we also know

0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:45.400
<v Speaker 1>within ft X there were it was a separate division

0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:48.320
<v Speaker 1>that was working on gaming, you know, stuff to do

0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.840
<v Speaker 1>with gaming infrastructure. It was still in a pretty nascent stage,

0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:54.679
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of the founders I spoke to or like, yeah,

0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:57.360
<v Speaker 1>we found it interesting, but it didn't seem like they

0:07:57.360 --> 0:07:59.120
<v Speaker 1>were ready to start working with us, or like, we

0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:01.880
<v Speaker 1>already have all of infrastructure in place, so we didn't need,

0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:05.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, that technical support they're offering. So we know

0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:09.560
<v Speaker 1>that within Sam bankman Fried's empire there was the emphasis

0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:13.880
<v Speaker 1>on gaming, both through ft X ventures and through this

0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:17.320
<v Speaker 1>ft X gaming operation they were developing. Not to mention

0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:20.840
<v Speaker 1>that Alameda Research, the Trip crypto trading firm he helped

0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:25.240
<v Speaker 1>found before f t X, they were also extremely active

0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:30.880
<v Speaker 1>gaming investors. So you've got all of these different, explicitly

0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:34.080
<v Speaker 1>and implicitly interconnected bits of the f t X empire.

0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:38.040
<v Speaker 1>Now they're all in bankruptcy. What does this mean for

0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.439
<v Speaker 1>the founders they invested in? What does it mean for

0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:44.360
<v Speaker 1>the founders for the games they acquired? Yeah, so it

0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:47.080
<v Speaker 1>was interesting talking to founders about this, you know, especially

0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:51.240
<v Speaker 1>those who had received equity investments from either Alameda or

0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:55.520
<v Speaker 1>f t X. So with the bankruptcy proceedings, it seems

0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:58.320
<v Speaker 1>like though that you know, those shares of equity will

0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:02.080
<v Speaker 1>be up for grabs so these companies and projects could

0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:07.240
<v Speaker 1>still could soon have new owners just to recap an

0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:12.120
<v Speaker 1>equisy investment. Is in exchange for boatloads of money from

0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:14.920
<v Speaker 1>either Alameda or f t X or fd X Ventures,

0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:19.520
<v Speaker 1>they offered shares in their companies back to these folks. Yeah. Yeah,

0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.280
<v Speaker 1>And so it was interesting talking to the founders because

0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:23.800
<v Speaker 1>some of them they're like, I have no idea what's

0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.320
<v Speaker 1>going to happen. You know, I think, yeah, like these

0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:28.440
<v Speaker 1>shares are going to go up, you know, with with

0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:32.280
<v Speaker 1>everything else that's you know, involved in this bankruptcy. But

0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.319
<v Speaker 1>it's very interesting to think that, yeah, they could have

0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:39.160
<v Speaker 1>new owners who scoop up these shares on the cheap,

0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:41.959
<v Speaker 1>which is a lot of uncertainty for the companies involved.

0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:46.679
<v Speaker 1>For sure, are the game's going to survive? Yeah, everyone

0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.640
<v Speaker 1>I spoke to is super confident, and yes, they see

0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:52.240
<v Speaker 1>this as a setback for the whole industry. And some

0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:55.640
<v Speaker 1>of them have had to make serious changes. Um. Just

0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:58.640
<v Speaker 1>even before the collapse of ft X, they were doing layoffs,

0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.720
<v Speaker 1>tightening budgets. Um. You know, some founders at all costs

0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:04.320
<v Speaker 1>are saying, you know, I don't want to cut salaries,

0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:06.320
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to let people go I'm working on

0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:08.680
<v Speaker 1>every option to make sure that doesn't happen. I'm trying

0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:11.880
<v Speaker 1>to raise funding from my investors. Up next, more from

0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:14.880
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg REPORTSA Hannah Mila on what the collapse of FTX

0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:17.960
<v Speaker 1>has meant for the crypto gaming industry. We'll be right back.

0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:29.400
<v Speaker 1>I want to switch slightly to talk about game stuff.

0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:33.599
<v Speaker 1>An incredible rally in game Stop to day ignoring all valuations,

0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:36.079
<v Speaker 1>all fundamental game Stop of course for the last three

0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.880
<v Speaker 1>days into today, up more than eighty percent. As those

0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:45.840
<v Speaker 1>message coordinators was hero of the meme stock revolution, decided

0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:50.760
<v Speaker 1>to become involved in crypto in different ways. We're talking

0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.440
<v Speaker 1>about getting into n f t s. They had a

0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:56.440
<v Speaker 1>deal with f t X where they would sell f

0:10:56.600 --> 0:11:00.200
<v Speaker 1>t X gift cards. Yeah, no, they had to. Is

0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:03.240
<v Speaker 1>this deal with f t x UM, like you said

0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:05.640
<v Speaker 1>to you know, sell the gift cards as this partnership,

0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:11.680
<v Speaker 1>and it seems unclear what is going to happen here

0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:14.440
<v Speaker 1>with that. I've reached out to game Stop, have not

0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:18.720
<v Speaker 1>gotten not heard back from them, But it is interesting that,

0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:23.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean, this was a big, high profile partnership the

0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:27.960
<v Speaker 1>game Stop and f t marketplace. Like other marketplaces, UM

0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:32.280
<v Speaker 1>has seen sales decline, and whether the ft X name

0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:38.199
<v Speaker 1>will taint them moving forward is a big, big possibility.

0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:43.000
<v Speaker 1>In a similar vein to their partnerships with I would

0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:46.280
<v Speaker 1>describe that as like a traditional gaming retailer. F t

0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:50.079
<v Speaker 1>X sponsored an E sports company called t s M.

0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:51.719
<v Speaker 1>I think it was one of their larger deals, was

0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.960
<v Speaker 1>like more than two million dollars in gaming rights. So

0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:57.679
<v Speaker 1>I have had a theory, which I think of a

0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.320
<v Speaker 1>spouse on this podcast, that there isn't a lot of

0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:04.679
<v Speaker 1>room between like gaming and crypto, not because those things

0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.120
<v Speaker 1>should necessarily be related, but because they tend to appeal

0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:10.160
<v Speaker 1>to similar kinds of people in the sort of the

0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:14.120
<v Speaker 1>grand scheme of East Sports, game Stop, etcetera. Do you

0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.120
<v Speaker 1>think that some of this was like just f t

0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:18.360
<v Speaker 1>X marketing being like, we want to get in front

0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.240
<v Speaker 1>of people who might want to trade on our platform

0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.920
<v Speaker 1>in addition to them all being die hard gamers themselves. Yeah,

0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:28.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean the the E sports deal that was a

0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:31.040
<v Speaker 1>really big team or is a really big team, So

0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:32.840
<v Speaker 1>to to get on board with them, I think was

0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.679
<v Speaker 1>a huge play. And again just part of ft X

0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:43.400
<v Speaker 1>is giant push to get to infiltrate mainstream consciousness and

0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:47.480
<v Speaker 1>with yes, I do think this comes from a personal

0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.680
<v Speaker 1>passion and personal interest from Sam Bankman Freed. But there

0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:54.120
<v Speaker 1>also is a lot of hype about blockchain gaming within

0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:57.320
<v Speaker 1>this space. Even during this crypto winter, you know, we've

0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:02.040
<v Speaker 1>seen resilience among crypto venture capital investing in blockchain gaming.

0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.880
<v Speaker 1>You know, there are these these n FT deals still happening.

0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:08.760
<v Speaker 1>You know, there are still gaming companies that use blockchain

0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:13.000
<v Speaker 1>who are scoring big valuations and raising funds, so and

0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:16.800
<v Speaker 1>even speaking to investors, you know, they see blockchain gaming

0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.080
<v Speaker 1>is a way for the space to survive and even

0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:25.400
<v Speaker 1>regain whatever legitimacy it had before ft X is collapse.

0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:32.200
<v Speaker 1>One area that sometimes gets conflated with blockchain gaming is

0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:39.680
<v Speaker 1>the metaverse. If as you may have to do in

0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:41.960
<v Speaker 1>your stories or to your relatives, Like if you were

0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:45.600
<v Speaker 1>to explain the difference between these two and on who

0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:48.400
<v Speaker 1>they're trying to appeal to, what would you say? Yeah,

0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.439
<v Speaker 1>it's a it's always a tough thing to explain, but yeah,

0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:53.680
<v Speaker 1>the metaverse. I I always describe it as a more

0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:57.480
<v Speaker 1>immersive version of the Internet, you know, like maybe it'll

0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:01.079
<v Speaker 1>use virtual reality, augmented reality, where you can see the

0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.760
<v Speaker 1>digital world that you're in around you, and I always

0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.480
<v Speaker 1>mentioned the movie Ready Player one or the book to

0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, I think that's like people's idealized version of

0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:15.440
<v Speaker 1>the metaverse in some ways dark stuff in some ways, yes,

0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:19.320
<v Speaker 1>very bleak in different ways. I think people would see

0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:23.600
<v Speaker 1>like what the the end, the end vision of that

0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:26.880
<v Speaker 1>metaverse as being the ideal, not not what it is

0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:30.880
<v Speaker 1>the majority of the book and movie. But with that,

0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.360
<v Speaker 1>crypto advocates have kind of stepped in this space by

0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:36.600
<v Speaker 1>arguing that that world should run on blockchain, that there

0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.520
<v Speaker 1>should you know, the currencies, the assets that you use

0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.520
<v Speaker 1>in the game should be based on blockchain because it

0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:48.840
<v Speaker 1>allows gamers to actually hold and own, um these things

0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:52.479
<v Speaker 1>that they're using in these virtual worlds. And a big

0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:55.560
<v Speaker 1>person who has invested in those kinds of games in

0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.880
<v Speaker 1>the metaverse and who stands to benefit potentially from the

0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:02.680
<v Speaker 1>decline of FTX and sound backmen freed is Yatsu and

0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:07.000
<v Speaker 1>Anamoca tell our listeners just a little bit about the

0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:12.360
<v Speaker 1>Anamoca empire. Amoka is huge, you know, it's it's based

0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:16.840
<v Speaker 1>in Asia. Yatsu has just been an incredible force within

0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:20.400
<v Speaker 1>the industry in terms of helping to develop blockchain games,

0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:25.480
<v Speaker 1>invest in blockchain games, so Anamoca uh is an investor

0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:29.320
<v Speaker 1>in Accine Infinity or in sky Mavis, the developer Vaccine Infinity,

0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:34.440
<v Speaker 1>and it also owns the Sandbox, which is the super

0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.560
<v Speaker 1>popular Well they wanted to be right beca see I

0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:41.160
<v Speaker 1>remember you writing that we had like five daily active users. Yeah,

0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:43.880
<v Speaker 1>well there was this report that they had that and

0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:47.280
<v Speaker 1>I spoke to Yatsu about it and wrote an article. Um,

0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:49.840
<v Speaker 1>and you know, he explained that there are other ways

0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:54.760
<v Speaker 1>to measure engagement in the Sandbox versus you know, blockchain

0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:58.240
<v Speaker 1>transactions and buying stuff in you know, the marketplace. And

0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, he even said something like, you know, in

0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:03.600
<v Speaker 1>virtual worlds, you'll be able to have metrics like gross

0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:06.960
<v Speaker 1>domestic product, and NAT will show you know what engagement

0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:12.640
<v Speaker 1>looks like and your jobs created. Even so, it's it's

0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.520
<v Speaker 1>been very interesting to kind of see how people form

0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:20.240
<v Speaker 1>their conceptions of what success means in blockchain gaming. I

0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.600
<v Speaker 1>think what on Amoka has done, what Yatsu has done,

0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.440
<v Speaker 1>is really help lift up some of the biggest names

0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:31.720
<v Speaker 1>in blockchain gaming currently. And with actin Infinity, you know

0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:36.560
<v Speaker 1>that obviously broke a lot of barriers, but I think

0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.480
<v Speaker 1>it's they see it as sort of like the first

0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:43.080
<v Speaker 1>step maybe not necessarily the future, right, because as you

0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:45.360
<v Speaker 1>put it so memorably at the beginning, it was like,

0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:47.760
<v Speaker 1>is this DeFi just wrapped in crappy geffics. The idea

0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:52.560
<v Speaker 1>is to play that game. You were essentially like minting

0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:56.680
<v Speaker 1>tokens and engaging in micro transactions and trying to get

0:16:56.680 --> 0:17:01.440
<v Speaker 1>a return on those micro transactions. Whereas something like Storybook

0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:06.159
<v Speaker 1>Brawl Is actually fun had no crypto elements at the

0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.240
<v Speaker 1>time of its acquisition, but could foreseeably support things like

0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:10.920
<v Speaker 1>you mentioned where you have in game n f t

0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:14.439
<v Speaker 1>s or others. So it seems like there's a spectrum

0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:16.920
<v Speaker 1>of ways to think about what blockchain and games could

0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:21.000
<v Speaker 1>look like. Definitely, Yeah, we're still figuring out what exactly,

0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:25.040
<v Speaker 1>uh this space could look like. And you know, when

0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:28.320
<v Speaker 1>I talked to blockchain gaming enthusiasts, they say, Okay, there

0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:32.280
<v Speaker 1>are developers coming over, There are big name companies that

0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:36.040
<v Speaker 1>are sort of softening their stance and getting interested in

0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, n f t s and blockchain. So we'll

0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:42.919
<v Speaker 1>see what happens. But I do think what's happened with

0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:45.480
<v Speaker 1>f t X, and considering f t X as presence

0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.680
<v Speaker 1>in the blockchain gaming space, there have been setbacks and

0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:56.119
<v Speaker 1>that might delay, you know, mainstream acceptance of crypto games.

0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.480
<v Speaker 1>If any of our listeners are big fans of crypto games,

0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:02.760
<v Speaker 1>send us an email at Crypto at Bloomberg dot net

0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.119
<v Speaker 1>and tell me and Hannah what we should be playing. Hannah,

0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:06.520
<v Speaker 1>thank you for being on the show. Thank you for

0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:09.600
<v Speaker 1>having me. You can find more of Hannah Miller's reporting

0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:12.399
<v Speaker 1>on the Bloomberg Terminal and on Bloomberg dot com. And

0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:14.480
<v Speaker 1>if you do have a recommendation for your favorite block

0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.919
<v Speaker 1>Dame game, make sure to email us at Crypto at

0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:25.840
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg dot net. This is Bloomberg Crypto at Daily podcast

0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:28.960
<v Speaker 1>from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. For more shows from

0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.440
<v Speaker 1>I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:36.040
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you get your podcasts. Send us your comments,

0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.119
<v Speaker 1>questions or suggestions for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg

0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:45.359
<v Speaker 1>dot net. The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky

0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:49.480
<v Speaker 1>very Galina. Our senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producers

0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:53.080
<v Speaker 1>are Mohammed Farouk and Sharon Barriro. Our associate producers are

0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:56.720
<v Speaker 1>Ty Butler and Moses on Them. Desta wonder At is

0:18:56.760 --> 0:19:02.240
<v Speaker 1>our engineer original music by Leo Sidron. I'm Stacy Maria Shmael.

0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:03.399
<v Speaker 1>We'll be back tomorrow.